00:00:48 Well, that's not quite true, it compiles if I do export CC=gcc 00:01:17 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:02:09 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:03:49 -!- dl```` [~download@dhcp154.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:05:11 rukubites: gflags looked promising to me 00:10:54 Xach: thanks, I'll take note of it. 00:11:27 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:11:51 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-108.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:15:46 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-129.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:20:41 Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.116.164] has joined #lisp 00:23:52 Farzad` [~farzadbek@46.225.103.204] has joined #lisp 00:25:51 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:25:58 -!- Farzad [~farzadbek@46.225.116.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:34:02 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:13 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:36:31 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:56 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 00:41:18 symm- [~symm-@178.168.29.31] has joined #lisp 00:45:15 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:45:53 -!- Farzad` [~farzadbek@46.225.103.204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:46:46 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:48:01 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:31 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has joined #lisp 00:52:36 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:53 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 00:59:54 Munksgaard [~philipm@tyr.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 01:01:27 -!- daem0n [~Mr@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has quit [Quit: o/] 01:01:53 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 01:04:51 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:45 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:12:18 -!- kwmiebach_ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-235-54.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:54 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:16 -!- rdd` [~rdd@c83-250-153-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:15:18 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:17:30 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 01:22:03 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:22:04 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:22:04 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:22:04 rukubite` [~user@d58-111-177-142.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:22:04 -!- rukubites [~user@d58-111-177-142.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:12 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:22:43 -!- rukubite` is now known as rukubites 01:22:45 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:19 Hmmm, com.google.flag does look pretty nice. 01:24:23 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:21 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:09 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 01:31:28 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:54 OzBorne [~OzBorne@178.73.193.244] has joined #lisp 01:31:57 hello 01:32:24 do you have a tutorial or a good book eventualy to buy to start a life with lisp? ;) 01:32:37 http://gigamonkeys.com/book 01:33:27 ok thanx 01:33:29 in french? 01:36:20 ok i found that : http://www.algo.be/logo1/lisp/prog.html 01:37:36 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 01:38:50 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:22 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:37 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:40:40 the french speaking belgian community has a lisp communicty? how unfair 01:40:45 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:42 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:49 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 01:42:28 http://www.algo.be/clr.html 01:43:04 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 01:45:05 -!- leifw [~user@184.152.79.200] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:46:38 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:51:16 -!- symm- [~symm-@178.168.29.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:52:25 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.241.186] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 01:55:01 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 01:58:59 -!- rukubites [~user@d58-111-177-142.meb802.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:04:12 springz [~springz@116.231.107.88] has joined #lisp 02:07:54 leifw [~user@184.152.79.200] has joined #lisp 02:07:59 OzBorne: http://dept-info.labri.fr/~idurand/enseignement/PFS/Book/programmation.html is listed on http://www.cliki.net/Online%20Tutorial ; what more could we do? 02:08:14 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:17 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 02:08:46 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A42C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:09:02 thanks i was looking for it 02:09:21 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:54 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:25 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:15:05 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-153-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:15:58 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:13 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:26:32 pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has joined #lisp 02:27:32 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:37 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 02:37:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:58 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Client Quit] 02:40:23 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:40:28 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:08 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:58 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 02:47:38 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483A792.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:28 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:49:31 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483A8A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:51:18 -!- OzBorne [~OzBorne@178.73.193.244] has quit [Quit: 1-CO-13] 02:59:30 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:03:06 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:05:35 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:06:40 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:06:59 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 03:09:32 teggi [~teggi@123.21.170.206] has joined #lisp 03:18:04 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:22:49 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:22:56 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:37 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ycxbjeruiutbpdrj] has joined #lisp 03:31:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:32:05 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:07 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:36:57 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:04 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:37:14 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 03:41:06 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:42:28 I notice SBCL development doesn't seem to have changesets in the git repo on sourceforge. Starting to wonder what's been happening. 03:42:38 *recent commits 03:44:26 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:34 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:44:47 pnathan: lack of time, most likely. 03:48:08 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 03:50:07 don't worry pnathan i will take over 03:52:00 haha 03:52:06 didn't know you were a sbcl dev. :P 03:52:54 im not, that's what makes it good 03:56:35 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:07 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-191.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:07 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-72-79-209-191.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:00:07 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 04:00:48 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:15 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 04:01:15 I should really process the mergesort patch. 04:05:33 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 04:08:04 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has joined #lisp 04:13:59 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:14:18 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:15:23 echo-are` [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 04:16:58 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:20:07 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 04:20:24 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:29 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Quit: icylisper] 04:25:42 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.207.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:29:26 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 04:30:55 -!- mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:31:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:32:01 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:33:53 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:44 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA1183.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:35:04 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:35:12 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:36:56 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:38:38 -!- echo-are` is now known as echo-area 04:38:58 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA08FC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:39:20 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 04:39:31 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:39:38 -!- Modius` is now known as Modius 04:44:05 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-31.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:45:09 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:50:37 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:53:32 deicide [4842e49f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.66.228.159] has joined #lisp 04:56:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58:03 -!- deicide [4842e49f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.66.228.159] has left #lisp 05:01:13 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 05:02:39 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 05:05:56 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:09:58 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:10:06 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@74.125.122.49] has joined #lisp 05:10:11 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:10:16 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 05:14:55 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@74.125.122.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:17:12 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.173.142] has joined #lisp 05:19:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.173.142] has quit [Changing host] 05:19:24 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:21:03 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:44 wow 05:21:56 gigamonkey's pracitcal common lisp book is so wordy 05:22:08 its great, i think he himself showed it to me ages ago 05:22:12 still, so much text@!! 05:22:21 what's that supposed to mean? 05:22:34 quazimodo: That's the problem with books. You might prefer The Little Schemer, then. 05:22:40 am0c_ [~am0c@175.193.122.94] has joined #lisp 05:22:47 The Little Schemer has no words, only forms. 05:22:53 Ok, I guess there are some titles. 05:22:56 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:24:16 icylisper [~icylisper@123.238.102.74] has joined #lisp 05:24:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:24:49 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:07 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:28:54 -!- ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:29:19 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 05:29:52 stassats: it reads like a narrative, and there is nothing wrong with that ofcourse, i just made an observation :) 05:30:09 ko1 [~k11@98.82.broadband5.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 05:30:18 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.24.9] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:30:18 sellout: i like graphical abstractions and trees, branches et 05:30:19 etc 05:30:19 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:31:06 that's a strange observation to make 05:33:04 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 05:35:15 jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-11.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:35:19 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@175.193.122.94] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:35:45 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 05:39:12 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:39:12 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 05:39:29 stassats: I don't think it is 05:39:35 its not a negative comment 05:40:07 it's just... not necessary 05:40:18 lisp is really strange though, i'm liking it so far though sometimes i get caught by a macro vs a function and how they intrinsically work 05:40:36 *quazimodo* just needs exposure 05:42:51 stassats: has anyone ever bothered to create a reader for lisp that goes with m-expressions rather than s-expressions? 05:43:50 somebody may have 05:43:59 not that there's any need to 05:44:07 just curious 05:45:56 am0c_ [~am0c@175.193.122.94] has joined #lisp 05:47:10 quazimodo: People like rewriting Lisp syntax periodically. it seems to be a common new lisper experience IMO 05:48:04 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:49:17 pnathan: oh lol, i was *only* curious, not interested in ever doing it because as far as all signs point, lisp already does that stuff really freakin wel 05:49:35 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:47 it's also a good way for old common lispers to troll other old common lispers 05:55:08 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:57:06 Quadrescence: to redefine the language? 05:57:14 or to define a new set of expressionsL 05:58:23 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host155.201-253-134.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:58:48 -!- am0c_ [~am0c@175.193.122.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:58:51 Both 05:59:39 lol waste of time much 06:02:47 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:04:46 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@p57A56CF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 06:05:25 kwertii [~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii] has joined #lisp 06:06:17 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has joined #lisp 06:06:58 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:08:21 wakeup [~wakeup@p5DE8CD83.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:54 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:10:12 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:11:00 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 06:11:19 so, does a lisp form *have* to start with a function or macro call, as opposed to an s-expression which is just arbitrary objects with () ? 06:12:12 <|3b|> 1 is a valid lisp form 06:12:29 you can look up in the glossary what "form" means 06:12:36 gigamonkeys says that ("foo" 1 2) is not a valid lisp form 06:12:51 you should refer to the spec if you are interested in what *has* to be. 06:12:59 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:17 <|3b|> right, that doesn't fit the definition in th eglossary 06:14:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:14:48 time for me to grab a glossary 06:15:10 <|3b|> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_f.htm#form 06:16:21 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/html/cltl/clm/node56.html#SECTION00910000000000000000 06:17:20 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:17:25 hrm so a string isnt a self evaluating form 06:17:36 <|3b|> clhs is a better reference than cltl2 06:17:56 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:18:08 <|3b|> anything that isn't a cons or symbol is self evaluating in CL (which you would know if you click the link in the glossary entry) 06:19:04 ("foo" 1 2) is invalid because when evaluating a list to call a function, the first element must be a "function designator", of which a string is not 06:19:51 hrm 06:20:20 sykopomp: played with porting postmodern to iolib at all? 06:20:45 hrm, how does a plist work into this 06:21:02 plist is just a data storage pattern 06:21:22 you dont consider it a lisp form? 06:21:24 just like an a-list, plain list, or binary tree 06:21:50 quazimodo: you would be well served by looking up the definitions of the terms you are using. 06:22:29 quazimodo: the first definition of "form" is "any object meant to be evaluated" 06:22:48 a list beginning with a string has no means to be evaluated in CL 06:22:48 Phoodus: thus a plist is not a form 06:22:49 ok 06:23:28 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLHS/Body/26_glo_f.htm#form 06:23:38 Phoodus: i'm there 06:23:49 -!- cbp```` [~user@187.193.209.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:26:04 <|3b|> "plist" is mostly intent, any even length list could be used as a plist, including many "form"s 06:26:45 <|3b|> (+ 1 a 2) is a form, same list in (getf '(+ 1 a 2) '+) is a plist 06:27:50 hrm ok, i just had to make that distinction 06:28:20 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: bye!] 06:28:28 then many data structures are not forms 06:28:38 though forms i guess can be data structures 06:28:55 <|3b|> or if you want to be extra confusing, (getf - '- 2) is a form that uses itself as a plist 06:29:09 only in the repl 06:29:13 <|3b|> true 06:29:39 quazimodo: all data structures are forms 06:29:58 *quazimodo* 's head explodes 06:30:16 you've just read what a form is, an object which can be evaluated 06:31:03 <|3b|> stassats: are you not counting arbitrary lists as data structures? 06:31:03 how does a plist get evaluated, its first element is an identifier 06:31:25 (ONE: "one" TWO: "TWO") <-- form? 06:31:39 ((a . 1) (b . 2)) <- form? 06:31:41 <|3b|> quazimodo: looks more like a reader error 06:31:45 <|3b|> the first one 06:31:55 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-121-223-197-249.lns3.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:32:43 <|3b|> if you meant (:one ...) then it depends on whether the spec allows defining functions with keywords as names 06:32:54 *|3b|* can't remember if it does explicitly allow that or not 06:33:06 erm, i mean (:one "one" :TWO "two") 06:33:07 ? 06:33:10 heck, hash tables are data structures, and are definitely not forms 06:33:23 <|3b|> Phoodus: they are self evaluating, so are forms 06:33:37 (always tends to be a nuisance in macro precalculations, that I can't inject hashtable literals into source) 06:33:54 <|3b|> you can, you just might not be able to compile them to files 06:33:58 hmm, yeah 06:34:05 |3b|: arbitrary lists just have to be quoted to become data structures 06:34:16 stassats: then it's not the list itself 06:34:24 the list becomes a parameter, not the form itself 06:34:27 <|3b|> stassats: right, but then they aren't evaluated 06:34:55 my statement was "all datastructures are forms" 06:35:08 <|3b|> and the definition of form requires evaluation 06:35:28 '(a b c) can be evaluated 06:35:33 *|3b|* wonders if this discussion has any point beyond being picky about the spec 06:35:48 <|3b|> stassats: so (quote (a b c)) is a form, (a b c) may or may not be 06:35:53 the list (quote ("foo" b c)) can be evaluated. The list ("foo" b c) cannot 06:36:29 but ("foo" b c) represents some data 06:36:47 correct, it is a datastructure, but not a form 06:37:32 and you can dump hashtables into fasls 06:37:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:37:55 guys it's been lovely 06:38:02 sadly i must go to exercise my body now 06:38:13 but you really did clear up my questions, thank you :D 06:38:41 (1 2 3) is not a form by the third definition, but it is still a form by the first, if I pass it to eval: (let ((form '(1 2 3))) (handler-case (eval form) (error () :good))) --> :good 06:39:09 So, strictly, all lisp objects are forms, since all they can be passed to eval. 06:39:38 <|3b|> well, by that definition, they are only forms if someone /intends/ to pass them to eval, not if they /can/ be 06:39:40 heh, "meant to be evaluated" instead of "can validly be evaluated" I guess 06:40:03 though throwing an error can be a "valid evaluation" etc 06:40:04 But when you call a lisp object a form, you expect it to do some computation beyond just signaling a program-error. 06:40:50 The definition is that. form n. 1. any object meant to be evaluated. 06:41:15 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 06:41:59 On the other hand, while (a b c) is a compound form, (since A could be a function or a macro), (1 2 3) is NOT a compoud form. Just a form (if you intend to evaluate it). 06:42:11 pjb: this makes sense to me, fantastic 06:42:26 you call it a form based on its evaluationability :P 06:42:41 lol wait no, thats wrong 06:43:00 you can call it "something which produces a result or a side-effect" 06:43:12 No. A form, by defintion 1. is any lisp object. 06:43:47 Notably, (1 2 3) produces a side-effect: its evaluation signals an error. 06:43:50 we're getting deep into Bill Clinton territory here 06:43:52 (defun foo (e) (+ 1 e)), (+ 1 e) is a valid form in that context, although evaluating (eval '(+ 1 e)) will throw an error 06:44:05 lol this got all weird and abstract fast 06:44:06 im off 06:44:08 peace 06:44:11 I'm sorry if there are meaningless "definitions" in the CLHS glossary. 06:44:43 There are a lot of meaningless sentences in natural languages. 06:45:04 one could argue that objects which are illegal function call-like lists are not "meant to be evaluated" 06:45:31 The information contents of most natural language uterances is apalingly close to 0. 06:45:44 yep 06:45:50 What does "meant" mean? 06:45:59 that was my next question, but I refrained :) 06:46:07 let's stop, since you can't past your zero 06:46:10 can't get 06:47:10 <|3b|> thinking about it, i suppose "intent to evaluate" is actually a useful measure, since it seems reasonable to call ("foo" 1 2 3) an "invalid form" when describing its failure to evaluate when someone tries to do so 06:47:34 but when taking user input and evaluating it, the intent is that the user passes "valid" forms 06:47:56 but it would be perfectly reasonable to say the variable holding the user input contains a form, regardless of whether it can be evaluated or not 06:48:14 <|3b|> a symbol is a form by definition 2 regardless of intent 06:48:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-134-11.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:48:53 <|3b|> (not that that has anything to do with what you said now that i read it correctly) 06:49:15 Phoodus: regardless of whether its evaluation produces an error or not. 06:49:26 obviously, everywhere in CLHS the second definition is used 06:49:26 right 06:49:26 All lisp objects can be evaluated. 06:49:37 can a variable ever hold a non-lisp object? 06:49:43 (declaim (ftype (function (t) t) eval)) 06:49:50 Phoodus: No. 06:49:57 I can't imagin that'd ever not be in undefined territory 06:50:06 Notably, a variable cannot hold multiple values, therefore multiple values are not a lisp object. 06:50:14 yep 06:50:57 Phoodus: a variable can hold no lisp objects 06:51:18 is an unbound marker a valid lisp object? 06:51:30 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-243.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:51:33 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:51:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:51:45 no 06:51:47 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:51:47 that is something that cannot be passed to eval 06:51:54 there's no such thing, even 06:51:57 (at least by any syntax I can imagine) 06:52:11 right, it's an implementation detail 06:52:32 so, every bound variable can be evaluated, unbound can't 06:52:43 and this becomes more and more silly 06:52:53 (multiple-value-call (function eval) (values '(+ 1 2))) => 3 06:52:57 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.85.44] has joined #lisp 06:53:00 But no. 06:53:06 I guess the way I worded my question could be restated to "Can a variable ever be bound to a non-lisp object?" 06:53:20 but yeah, definitely nonsensical pendatic territory 06:53:29 (ie, the Bill Clinton zone) 06:53:30 Phoodus: A variable can be unbound, but otherwise it's bound to a lisp object. 06:54:16 yep. 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[~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 09:30:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 09:30:23 :) 09:35:05 *Xach* is excited for the boston lisp hangout on thursday 09:37:04 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-121-69.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 09:38:38 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:41:02 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 09:42:45 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:45:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:46:13 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@123.238.102.74] has quit [Quit: icylisper] 09:46:55 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:52:13 -!- Algo [~Algo@unaffiliated/algorithmiccontr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:00:19 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 10:00:21 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:00:41 yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has 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[~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:16:13 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:16:58 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:17:13 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 10:23:46 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:24:21 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:25:32 tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:27:16 tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:28:40 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:28:52 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:58 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:29:18 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 10:30:37 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:30:42 tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:32:00 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:32:27 tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:32:53 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@2.110.158.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:33:25 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:34:23 sometimes i get very depressed, especially when software has tests, but the tests don't run 10:34:54 and then when looking into, i discover bugs in test software (in this case, lift) 10:35:10 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:35:30 probably nobody has ever done (asdf:oos 'asdf:test-op "cl-markdown") 10:35:41 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:35:49 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:35:50 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 10:36:50 there are at least two bugs in lift-20110320-git 10:37:22 tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:37:46 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:39:07 tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:39:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:40:04 -!- kilon is now known as kilon_away 10:40:04 who will test the testing framework? 10:40:34 switch it to stefil 10:40:39 seems to work ok enough for me 10:40:51 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:40:55 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:41:47 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:42:37 tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:43:20 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43:33 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-14-217.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:43:41 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 10:44:20 tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:45:00 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:45:34 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:46:01 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:46:33 that's probably the reason i don't realease any software 10:47:31 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:47:38 all i wanted to do is fix a thing in cl-markdown 10:47:47 tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:47:55 *maxm-* is actually pretty interested in markdown and all kind of related stuff to make docstring more user friendly 10:48:13 maxm-: stay away from cl-markdown, then 10:48:44 I started with using orgstruct-mode and orgtable-mode. But after trying to make a simple readme with tons of code block examples with org, quickly gave up and used markdown instead 10:48:55 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:49:19 -!- springz [~springz@116.231.107.88] has quit [Quit: go off work] 10:49:45 imho markdown like convention for docstrings is a way to go. Use "word" and " : description paragraph" on next line for definition list (ie ARG => its description) 10:50:19 then a slime hack can me made, that instead of plain text, parses and reflows it in *slime-documentation* buffer, and connects UPPERCASE stuff to inspector 10:50:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:52:31 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:54:18 tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:55:19 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:56:02 tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:56:49 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:57:22 bas_ [~bas@89.184.179.185] has joined #lisp 10:57:30 -!- bas_ is now known as Skola 10:57:43 tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:59:01 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:59:27 tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 10:59:47 hmm, 3bmd looks dog-slow 11:00:26 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 11:00:46 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:12 tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has joined #lisp 11:02:31 -!- tcr [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:03:16 processing the same source text takes 30ms in cl-markdown, but 1 second in 3bmd 11:03:33 1.1 second, to be exact 11:04:25 -!- tcr2 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:04:41 well, that's under ccl... 11:05:26 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95.215.121.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:05:29 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:06:00 on sbcl, 3dmd takes ~50ms, cl-markdown ~20ms 11:06:21 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:07:14 too mad they both give me the wrong result... 11:08:13 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-wvvfmudwhxnrxcrz] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:10:58 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Quit: ERC 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airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:48:29 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-129.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:50:17 jdz: easier to be fast if correctness is not a requirement 12:54:32 pnq [~nick@AC820738.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:58:11 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-213-41.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:59:52 -!- yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:00:20 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-195-104.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:45 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:08 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:25 clsql:probe-database keeps telling me "using database-type MYSQL: Error 1049 / Unknown database 'tweets' has occurred." 13:09:06 -!- pnq [~nick@AC820738.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:10:10 Xach: word! 13:12:17 superflit_ 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#lisp 13:37:44 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-14-217.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:40:57 daem0n [~Mr@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:57 -!- daem0n [~Mr@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:40:57 daem0n [~Mr@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 13:41:07 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:41:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:42:33 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:43:05 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.154] has joined #lisp 13:48:55 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:52:40 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 13:55:47 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 13:57:28 Only takes 4 days for facebook from me posting to Usenet to start being spammed with invitations to view friends photos on the email I used 14:00:01 lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 14:00:36 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 I have a couple noob questions: 1. Every time I run slime I get this - Lisp connection closed unexpectedly: connection broken by remote peer 14:00:58 Is that normal ? 14:01:09 Kinda ironic considering your screenname :P 14:01:49 And to answer your question: No, that's not normal 14:01:54 daem0n: You can't really use SLIME then? 14:02:06 yeah it's allowing me to use it 14:02:22 I've only tried basic stuff 14:02:26 but it runs fine 14:02:36 So you can compile and run lisp code? 14:02:36 also when I try C-c C-c, I get an error message that says "Not 14:02:36 connected." 14:03:05 What do you mean by "basic stuff"? 14:03:24 run simple expressions in the interpreter 14:03:38 I get the above error when I try to compile 14:04:04 ... that's strange 14:04:14 How did you install SLiME? 14:04:20 daem0n: and by "interpreter" you mean the REPL, right? 14:04:28 yes my bad 14:04:32 daem0n: also, what's the name of your RELP buffer? 14:04:37 REPL even 14:04:54 cbp```` [~user@187.193.209.109] has joined #lisp 14:05:08 lakatos: followed this tut http://www.pchristensen.com/blog/articles/installing-sbcl-emacs-and-slime-on-windows-xp/ 14:06:08 Well, this article is kind of old 14:06:08 jdz: erm sbcl? 14:06:33 And yeah, sbcl isn't really designed for Windows 14:06:38 daem0n: it cannot be the name of the REPL buffer 14:06:38 It's the only decent one I could find for winblows 14:06:47 Wait a sec 14:06:53 daem0n: have you tried Clozure CL? 14:06:57 jdz: It can 14:06:57 nope 14:07:34 The SBCL windows fork works a bit nicer 14:07:42 It only means that SLIME didn't initalize properly, and so Emacs only opened an inferior-lisp buffer running sbcl directly 14:07:51 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:08:15 daem0n, you might want to try out Lispbox http://common-lisp.net/project/lispbox/ 14:08:43 It's a preocnfigured Emacs client with slime and Clozure CL 14:08:52 runs out of the box 14:08:54 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:00 sweeet thanks 14:09:07 http://mohiji.nfshost.com/2011/01/modern-common-lisp-on-windows/ is a more recent guide 14:09:17 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 14:09:17 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 14:09:17 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 14:09:20 shall I stick with sbcl? 14:09:57 daem0n: the right question would be: "Shall I stick with windows?" 14:10:07 hehehehe 14:10:20 daem0n: If I were using SBCL on windows, I'd use the "friendly fork" linked from www.sbcl.org 14:10:20 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Quit: icylisper] 14:10:22 getting a Linux running in a virtual machine is a common thing to do nowadays 14:10:43 I'm using that Xach :) 14:10:48 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:50 There are a lot of freandly distros 14:10:57 I also have that setup jdz 14:11:10 daem0n: I would expect it to work ok with slime, though I haven't tried myself. 14:11:18 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:11:24 will make the full switch to linux soon enough 14:11:43 i consider windows a toy OS because it's only good for playing games 14:12:04 Nah, it has legitimate uses 14:12:13 Yes, playing games. 14:12:17 last time I had problems during the install - linux not picking up my keyboard and mouse 14:12:18 playing games is a very legitimate use, you know 14:12:27 *Odin-* can't think of another one. 14:12:36 so I'm stuck on windowzes 14:12:37 Odin-: playing boss? 14:12:46 Odin-: honey pot :) 14:12:51 daem0n, try installing Linux Mint 14:13:08 It's really user friendly 14:13:08 blandest: Que? 14:13:24 And should work with most hardware combinations 14:13:43 I'll take a look 14:13:44 Odin-, You know, honeypot 14:13:45 jdz: Perhaps. I've been able to avoid the corporate environment, fortunately. 14:13:51 Odin-: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Honeypot_%28computing%29 14:14:19 Ah. 14:14:39 Well, people need to believe there actually is something valuable there, right? ;) 14:15:33 not necessarily, many user owned computers are used as spam servers 14:16:12 dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:28 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has left #lisp 14:16:47 lol 14:16:59 Aren't those mostly the result of viral infections? 14:17:50 *Xach* feels eyes glaze 14:17:56 :) 14:18:12 dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:44 *Odin-* worries about the temperature around Xach ... and the chemical composition of his eyes. O_o 14:18:47 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 14:19:39 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@c-66-31-33-181.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:47 *lakatos* is reminded of the South Park episode where people are diagnozed with pink-eye when they are actually turning into zombies 14:20:16 -!- finnrobi [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has quit [Quit: oops, nok med en finnrobi] 14:21:11 I was wondering, what are the noticable differences between CMUCL and SBCL, performance wise 14:21:15 ? 14:21:53 dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:34 finnrobi [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:51 -!- lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:23:26 lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 14:23:29 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:24:16 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:24:45 *Xach* doesn't use both enough to say 14:25:04 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:09 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:57 I think CMUCL is still 32-bit only, so if you want a big heap, there's one difference. 14:26:03 rtoym would know for sure. 14:26:09 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:15 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:18 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:34 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:00 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:28:28 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:03 Noted 14:30:01 -!- spacebat [~user@150.101.97.47] has left #lisp 14:30:11 lakatos: I suspect that SBCL has a number of Hacker's Delight-style tweaks that cmucl does not yet have 14:30:20 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:30:26 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:31:18 Well I've been trying to do some high-performance computing with both for a cryptography class 14:32:06 icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has joined #lisp 14:32:20 And SBCL does perform better in some areas, but only after some really forced optimizations 14:32:24 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.154] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:33:13 CMUCL is much more friendly with the optimize keywords 14:33:56 What's an example? 14:34:12 I'm looking for one right now 14:36:41 -!- ghoti- [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:04 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:37:26 I only used CMUCL for a brief time, but my experience at the time with optimization stuff was that they produced fairly similar notes and required fairly similar declarations or use of modularity to squeeze out the best performance. 14:38:02 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.139.154] has joined #lisp 14:39:04 Well this is embarrasing, I seem to have missplaced my files somewhere 14:39:21 Maybe even deleted them. 14:39:44 Deleting unreachable code 14:40:13 Well yeah, that was my experience as well, similar notes, similar behaviour 14:40:35 But in my case I was working with bit-arrays 14:41:13 CMUCL did handle the declarations pretty smoothly 14:41:19 SBCL's bit vectors are super speedy with the aforementioned Hacker's Delight tweaks 14:41:24 I use them a lot for search 14:41:51 Yeah, I noticed 14:41:53 lakatos: what declarations? can you paste the code? 14:42:18 I've never used bit vectors before. What kind of search do you use them for? 14:42:41 stassats, I don't remember now, it was like 3 months ago, and that's a lot for my memory 14:42:53 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:03 But as soon as I manage to find my files I'll come back and report 14:43:48 sykopomp: each vector represented a word, and each position represented an article id, so to find out which articles contained both "COMMON" and "LISP", i would get the vectors for those words and AND them together and find the positions of the set bits. 14:44:08 http://xach.com/naggum/articles/notes.html#search has some notes 14:45:32 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nigjnhcurznbrqdr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:45:58 antgreen [~user@70.50.67.127] has joined #lisp 14:46:10 (declare (optimize (safety 0) (speed 3))) 14:46:10 (declare (type (simple-array bit) bl)) 14:46:32 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 14:46:49 So yeah, CMUCL in my case optimized the code as needed 14:46:58 are you working on multidimensional arrays? 14:47:18 urandom__ [~user@p548A5053.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:20 Just a 64 bit long array 14:47:27 a vector? 14:47:32 yeah 14:47:38 Xach: nice. Thanks for the link. That's pretty damn fast. :) 14:47:45 the right declaration would be (declare (type (simple-array bit (*)) bl)) 14:47:52 I'm gonna have to look for a nail to try this hammer on. 14:48:06 Yes, that's what I had to use for SBCL 14:48:26 But CMUCL didn't complain 14:48:31 -!- icylisper [~icylisper@27.7.49.38] has quit [Quit: icylisper] 14:48:35 ILTWYS"HAD" 14:48:39 That's what I found strange 14:49:04 lakatos: did it result in the same performance? 14:49:38 SBCL performed generally faster 14:50:03 so, that suggests that cmucl didn't have any optimizations for bit-vectors, so it didn't complain 14:50:15 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:50:34 The optimizations deffinitely worked 14:51:11 CMUCL did something to the code, no question :P 14:51:14 i can't say anything more without seeing the code in question 14:51:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:51:40 Wait a sec, I'm looking for the "finished" version 14:51:41 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 14:52:44 -!- kmcorbett [kmcorbett@clozure-9FE07BBF.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:52:44 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 14:53:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128037 So yeah, this is my monstrosity 14:54:18 mgraham [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:25 It's a macro that generates permutation functions, and if possibly, their inversion, for bitvectors 14:54:34 possible* 14:55:25 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:29 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-208.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:57:19 I'm not sure if it will work, I pulled this out of my "documentation" of my code 14:57:30 (it doesn't) 14:58:02 What's the complaint? 14:58:12 new-block I guess 14:58:33 SYMB is undefined 14:58:41 (defun new-block (len) 14:58:41 (make-array len :element-type 'bit)) 14:58:52 Oh yeah, and symb 14:58:55 sykopomp: the naggum search is all in memory, but usenet-legend has an implementation that reads the vectors from disk. still pretty fast. 15:00:27 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-184-204-124.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:30 Check the annotations 15:01:01 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:01:24 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:20 Damn, I think my original code is gone for good 15:03:24 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:37 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@c-66-31-33-181.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:05:56 if you put new-block variable into a declartion, it doesn't complain 15:06:06 THE at the end doesn't really make much sense 15:06:16 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 15:06:20 and in any case, i don't see the reason to complain if the compiler wants to know the strictest type possible 15:06:46 yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has joined #lisp 15:07:28 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:42 if you dislike declarations, you could just use SBIT 15:07:52 or provide proper declarations and you can get away with AREF 15:08:08 I was putting THE's everywhere, I was new to the declarations business back then 15:08:30 Oh, I'm not trying to complain 15:08:56 I was just wondering why this difference in behaviour 15:09:32 short answer, nowadays you can pretty much ignore CMUCL 15:09:37 Because from what I understood both CMUCL and SBCL are using the same Python engine when analyzing code 15:10:01 the same, with 10 years of development difference 15:11:45 I see 15:11:58 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-208.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:21:19 nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has joined #lisp 15:23:28 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.67.127] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:23:28 -!- superflit [~superflit@75-171-202-150.hlrn.qwest.net] 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15:33:38 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:35:43 -!- hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:37:57 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:38:11 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 15:38:42 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.164.157] has joined #lisp 15:39:06 -!- mathrick__ is now known as mathrick 15:41:11 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 15:43:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:44:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:44:42 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 15:44:44 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-55-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:04 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:46:44 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:08 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:29 daem0n [~Mr@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:29 -!- daem0n [~Mr@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:49:29 daem0n [~Mr@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 15:49:54 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:22 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120222074758]] 15:50:33 linux mint didnt recognize my hardware :< 15:51:00 and you didn't recognize this as off-topic? 15:51:21 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:21 zophy [~zophy@ipv6postoffice.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:33 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-55-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:52:45 linux mint probably told him to come here. 15:52:47 inaimathi [~inaimathi@174.137.255.113] has joined #lisp 15:53:25 uh oh off topic fags 15:53:30 daem0n: Go away. 15:53:38 yeah it's something we were discussing earlier 15:53:47 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 15:53:49 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*Mr@unaffiliated/mryaargh 15:53:53 -!- daem0n [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (Go away.) 15:53:55 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 15:54:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:57:19 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@pC19F67DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 15:59:04 That was harsh 16:00:04 TheMue [~TheMue@pC19F67DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:01:21 kpreid [~kpreid@e4-ce-8f-3a-1f-52.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 16:01:29 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@boccacio.fh-trier.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:01:42 -!- lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read 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[~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:31:27 TDT [~user@2620:0:e50:7022:20c:f1ff:fef5:bff1] has joined #lisp 16:31:32 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:03 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-403178.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:34:08 I love it when I have a question, come into the room, then finally realize the answer, heh 16:34:36 daem0n [~Mr@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:36 -!- daem0n [~Mr@host-89-242-50-226.as13285.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:34:36 daem0n [~Mr@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has joined #lisp 16:36:03 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:02 sometimes formulating the question clearly enough to write down causes the answer to spring up. 16:38:59 one is never alone with a rubber duck 16:40:50 -!- yakov [~yakov@77.72.122.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:41:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-55-23.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:43:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:44:24 cmm: mmm...That deserves to be written down on a piece of paper and hung in my cubicle, heh. 16:44:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:45:21 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:38 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081F73B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:24 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 16:46:28 lispmeister [~fix@201.191.195.80] has joined #lisp 16:49:19 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-69.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:50:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 16:51:19 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 16:53:58 TDT: not before you drop everything and read the whole five-book trilogy that quote is from! 16:54:51 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.170.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:34 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081F73B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.2/20120215223356]] 16:58:52 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:59:04 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081F73B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:28 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:59:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-121-69.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:02:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:01 -!- lispmeister [~fix@201.191.195.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:06:15 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host155.201-253-134.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 17:07:12 http://i.imgur.com/tB0vY.jpg -- gave you credit, and of you giving the book credit...I will now always be reminded of this wise bit of logic 17:10:18 I have a feeling, that I'll have to read more on douglas adams 17:10:50 He wrote a lot about Lisp. 17:10:55 Wait, that was Douglas Hofstadter 17:11:47 Adams wrote about Apple 17:12:21 and Nordic gods 17:13:24 pnq [~nick@AC841ECC.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@e4-ce-8f-3a-1f-52.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:16:21 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 17:16:23 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:17:18 Xach: i was just looking at some of hofstadters lisp essays today 17:18:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:24:03 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:41 i read the eternal golden braid years ago, but didn't realise that hofstadter was a lisp wonk. 17:25:00 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 17:25:02 in the Road to Lisp several people cited him 17:25:32 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:26:00 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:18 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 17:28:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:28:40 paul0 [~user@177.96.50.175] has joined #lisp 17:28:49 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-403178.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:29:39 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-317620.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:31:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:31:53 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:33:19 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:52 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-384992.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:35:18 -!- emacsuser [~user@194.249.198.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:35:20 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:35:46 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@74.125.122.49] has joined #lisp 17:35:53 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:36:40 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-317620.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:37:37 -!- daem0n [~Mr@unaffiliated/mryaargh] has left #lisp 17:43:18 so (clsql:probe-database '("localhost" "mydb" "root" "password") :database-type :mysql) should return nil if my mysql server does not have a database called "mydb"? 17:44:53 it returns T for databases that do exist, but for databases that don't it signals a CLSQL-SYS:SQL-CONNECTION-ERROR 17:47:32 ironChicken: I wouldn't expect it to signal an error. 17:47:57 is there an easy way to concatenate two streams? 17:48:09 wakeup: the obscurely-named make-concatenated-stream 17:48:29 thanks sarcasm 17:48:32 Xach: :) 17:48:32 Or did you need something with different semantics? 17:48:48 ironChicken: What does the backtrace look like? 17:48:55 wakeup: the "well deserved" sarcasm 17:49:17 Xachascm? (use british accent) 17:49:33 ok I admit, by now I should know that CL has really everything 17:49:49 wakeup: no, you should look into the manual. 17:49:53 _and_ sarcasm 17:50:13 0: ((SB-PCL::FAST-METHOD CLSQL-SYS:DATABASE-CONNECT (T (EQL :MYSQL))) # # ("localhost" "mydb" "root" "password" NIL) :MYSQL) 17:50:41 ironChicken: Ah, then that does kinda make sense to me. 17:50:50 H4ns: how would I find that in the hyperspec without google? 17:50:56 wakeup: permuted index 17:51:01 wakeup: or look in streams dictionary 17:51:31 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_stream.htm yeah 17:51:40 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_Perm_C.htm has the "c" entries 17:52:14 or try http://lispdoc.com/ 17:52:37 ok I get it 17:52:49 lispdoc just gives me CONCATENATE and STREAM when I search for 'concatenate stream' :( 17:53:27 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:54:03 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 17:54:27 ironChicken: That might be worth bringing up on the mailing list. 17:54:37 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 17:54:54 lispmeister [~fix@201.191.195.96] has joined #lisp 17:54:56 ironChicken: it should probably use a different connection spec when connecting to the db to check to see if a given db name is valid. 17:58:34 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@74.125.122.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:01:33 -!- lispmeister [~fix@201.191.195.96] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 18:01:36 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.50] has joined #lisp 18:03:35 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:52 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-208.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:05:06 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 18:06:09 symm- [~symm-@178.168.29.31] has joined #lisp 18:13:34 here is what this young man did to get rid of the parentheses: http://pretty-lisp.org/ 18:13:48 i can't but admire the force of his will 18:14:24 ... Interlisp? 18:14:51 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 18:14:58 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:12 looks to me like the LispM that had visual editor 18:15:51 it does kind of symbolise how i read lisp code. the parens represent groups of code, whatever it may be 18:15:52 how do I found out wether a stream is a concatenated-stream? 18:16:01 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:18:13 wakeup: TYPEP is one way 18:18:49 will suffice, thanks 18:22:39 H4ns: interesting though it would be prettier if there wasn't a stairstep effect for everything 18:22:57 looks significantly uglier.. 18:23:16 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:23:50 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:50 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@c-66-31-33-181.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:51 symm-: nah it's like madnificent said, it's pretty close to how i read lisp anyway, but it could use some tweaking 18:25:28 something you probably don't care/need if you're used to reading lisp, but interesting nonetheless 18:25:37 it's not explicit, but http://clsql.b9.com/manual/probe-database.html implies that the supplied specification is for the database whose presence is to be tested 18:26:00 anyway (member "mydb" (clsql:list-databases '("localhost" "mysql" "root" "password")) :test #'string=) is a sufficient work-around 18:26:35 ironChicken: that's pretty much what probe-database does underneath 18:26:53 except it uses the connection spec you pass, which fails 18:27:13 seems like it might be ideal-er to pass a low-level connection spec *and* a database name in this situation 18:29:41 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29:42 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 18:29:42 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has quit [Changing host] 18:29:42 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 18:29:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:30:50 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 18:31:26 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-115.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:35:40 *Xach* wishes he could reach dtc in realtime 18:35:50 so i'm using postmodern and i need to update a row with the where clause restricting updates so that they are only carried out when column values did not change since i read them. the previous column values may be NULL or something else. do i really need to construct the where clause dynamically to cater for NULL and non-NULL values properly? 18:35:52 hemlock is still busted and he has committed since my bug report. 18:35:58 (i.e. :is-null vs :=)? 18:36:36 H4ns: isn't that what transactions are for? 18:37:17 sykopomp: sure. but in in this case, the time between reading and writing could be very long. 18:37:24 sykopomp: (days). 18:37:27 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:37:31 setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 18:37:37 H4ns: I think you do, though I think it is not really a postmodern question. 18:37:37 ahh 18:38:13 Xach: i know that in sql you must, but i hoped that postmodern already has something to make this easier or automatic. 18:38:24 Xach: forgive me, please! 18:38:24 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:38:38 I don't think postmodern sugarcoats that 18:38:43 Is their an idiomatic example of dynamically binding swank:*sldb-printer-bindings* in order to (for example) make swank::*sldb-string-length* something less miserly than 50? 18:38:47 Nor saltcoats 18:39:37 french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:37 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:38 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.50] has joined #lisp 18:43:16 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 18:44:33 bah, so it is only a tiny little step from "simple query, beautiful s-sql" to "complex query, hideous s-expression slicing monster" 18:44:41 *whine* 18:45:22 H4ns: it's more than just (:or (:= ...) (:is-null ...))? 18:45:49 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:45:51 This is what i'm doing right now: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128041 18:46:10 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@201-251-62-201.static.speedy.com.ar] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 18:46:16 Xach: you mentioned hofstadter and lisp earlier, what exactly did you mean? 18:46:30 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:27 Xach: would that not be (:or (:= 'col old) (:and (:is-null 'col) (:is-null old)))? 18:47:59 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:49:55 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-146-232-199.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:53:33 dekuked: GEB. 18:53:54 Gödel, Escher, Bach: An Eternal Golden Braid -- Douglas Hofstadter 18:54:18 pjb: but he mentions lisp in there? I've never read it 18:54:57 Look, GEB is the most important book written in the XXth century. If you haven't read it, you may as well be an amoeba. 18:55:31 pjb: is that sarcasm? 18:55:35 And SICP is the most important CS book written in the XXth century. 18:55:39 mon_key: no, really. 18:56:14 dekuked: some of his chapters and essays are about LISP 18:56:41 H4ns: hmm, not sure. 18:57:08 Xach: don't worry. i'm going for the ugly spliced thing now. 18:57:28 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:28 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:06 Ok. 19:00:09 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.50] has joined #lisp 19:00:20 -!- Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:00:44 Skola [~bas@5352A3FB.cm-6-3c.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:00:59 Hello world 19:01:11 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:01:31 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:38 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:01:57 pjb: FTR and FTW, this is the most important book written in the XXth Century: www9.georgetown.edu/faculty/irvinem/theory/Baudrillard-Simulacra_and_Simulation.pdf 19:02:46 I've been meaning to read that ever since I saw the reference to it in the matrix 19:02:55 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:03 probably poor reasoning, but it does look interesting 19:03:12 mon_key: pjb has a topical angle since both GEB and SICP are about Lisp. 19:03:20 mon_key: does S&S have a Lisp angle? 19:04:20 Xach: yes, though only if you're so inclined. I'm prob. off topic. 19:04:30 Xach: well, it could be argued that it's a treatise on recursion and self similarity. 19:04:42 but a long stretch, that would be. 19:05:20 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:04 The Lisp bits in GEB never really interested me much (nor, really, the rest of it) 19:06:22 Fade: The Lisp relevance would IMO be wrt semiotics e.g. sign/signifier/signified stuff 19:07:10 well, it's the pomo bible for self-reflexifity, but it has been a really long time since I read it. 19:07:17 *reflexivity 19:08:21 i'll cast my vote to 'off topic' :) 19:09:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:11:58 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 19:12:23 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 19:17:50 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:17:58 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:18:04 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[~nick@AC841ECC.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:25:27 -!- dto [~dto@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:25:38 -!- X-Scale [email@2001:470:1f14:135b::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 21:26:30 dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.172.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:38 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.229.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 21:31:33 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Ping timeout: 615 seconds] 21:32:37 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:44 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 21:33:59 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-67-232-182-18.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 21:34:16 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:34:50 it would be interesting if there was a way to graph the correlate between these #lisp lulls and the LOC produced by channel members. 21:35:49 perhaps some github plugin 21:38:16 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:39:54 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 21:40:46 Pluggi_ [~pluggi512@212-198-121-112.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 21:40:59 -!- Pluggi_ [~pluggi512@212-198-121-112.rev.numericable.fr] has left #lisp 21:43:29 Fade: your LOC productivity just went down (: 21:43:40 don't forget to control for netsplits 21:44:38 -!- niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has quit [Ping timeout: 604 seconds] 21:45:51 it's all awful, and true. 21:45:58 -!- french [~french@164.136.1.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/] 21:46:13 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:57 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:47:56 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 21:48:26 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.110.134] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:48:40 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 21:48:54 Posterdati [~tapioca@host249-171-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:49:19 hi 21:50:32 is it possible to use hunchentoot to develop an app to manage a simple database? 21:50:51 are you being serious? 21:51:02 ? 21:51:15 you've just described pretty much every web application ever constructed. 21:51:23 Posterdati: what exactly do you mean by "possible"? 21:52:10 H4ns: I need to create a web app to manage a list of electronic components in a file 21:52:18 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081F73B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:52:38 yes you can do it Posterdati 21:52:51 ok thanks 21:54:07 tomodo: have I to create forms for data input and output like website html page? 21:54:11 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:54:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:54:39 tomodo: how can I interface forms to Lisp app? (like button press) 21:55:16 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:55:30 Posterdati: you should probably refer to the documentation. 21:55:33 Posterdati: the web client sends a request to the web server when you submit the form. 21:55:34 davlap [~davlap@pool-108-49-122-166.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:57 Posterdati: http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/interact/forms.html 21:56:15 Ralith: sure 21:56:18 Ralith: where? 21:56:35 Posterdati: you should study the example code, because it shows how to do exactly that 21:56:39 Posterdati: look also at hunchentoot docs and this might get you started http://www.adampetersen.se/articles/lispweb.htm 21:56:40 pjb: I already wrote a webserver for an embedded system that behave on a button pressure 21:56:48 -!- TheMue [~TheMue@pC19F67DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: TheMue] 21:56:53 sipo: thanks 21:56:57 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:57:05 Posterdati: then why are you asking gavino-level questions? 21:57:26 pjb: because I don't know how to do it in Lisp 21:57:43 -!- setmeaway2 [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:49 Read hunchentoot doc, it's easy. 21:57:50 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 21:57:56 pjb: good 21:57:59 thanks people 21:58:05 niko [~niko@freenode/staff/ubuntu.member.niko] has joined #lisp 21:58:44 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:59:16 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 22:02:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.85.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:02:20 -!- dto [~user@pool-72-70-40-118.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:33 winke 22:02:37 echan 22:03:47 zmv [~zmv@186.204.150.191] has joined #lisp 22:06:53 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.148.121.81] has joined #lisp 22:07:06 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:07:36 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5053.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:07:42 mstevens_ [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 22:11:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-69.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:13:05 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483A792.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:16:41 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.62] has quit [Quit: Offline] 22:17:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:18:13 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 22:23:15 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1183.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:23:38 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2228.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:24:15 -!- dekuked [~k@static-98-164-147-69.axsne.net] has quit [Quit: dekuked] 22:24:26 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:26:26 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 22:27:56 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:10 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host155.201-253-134.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:29:44 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-252.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:29:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-240-59.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:24 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-128-113.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:01 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:32:15 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:33:18 -!- mgraham [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:35:11 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:27 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:37:05 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:18 urandom__ [~user@p548A1D55.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:26 -!- symm- [~symm-@178.168.29.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39:56 anyone know of a package which can convert datetime strings such as "Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:02:10 +0000" to universal times? 22:39:57 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:40:19 johannix [~mirani@208.77.234.34] has joined #lisp 22:41:20 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 22:41:31 ironChicken: When I've needed that, I have written my own little processor. Maybe net-telent-date can handle it? 22:41:45 tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.23.124.232] has joined #lisp 22:42:07 simple-date has a pretty tolerant date parser, iirc 22:42:37 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:42:46 chronicity may be able to handle it, too. Maybe. 22:43:27 looked at simple-date and chronicity and neither provide a parser for this format 22:43:30 ironChicken: did you look at local-time? 22:43:35 yes 22:43:39 ok 22:44:22 quite a few packages provide facility to add your own date formats 22:44:27 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:45:06 I vaguely recall the existence of a package dedicated to parsing a certain ISO date format 22:45:15 In the time it takes to research 3 thirdparty libraries you could write your own. 22:45:17 no idea what it was or whether your format is compatible, though 22:45:25 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7] 22:45:27 Xach: tell me about it 22:45:46 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.207.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:46:17 *Xach* aims to speed up research 22:46:27 ironChicken: Xach was right. 22:46:51 (net.telent.date:parse-time "Tue, 28 Feb 2012") 22:48:00 => 3539462530 22:49:52 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 22:49:57 -!- paul0 [~user@177.96.50.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:13 *Xach* gets new lisp-oriented business cards 22:50:23 mgraham [~v0yager@c-68-59-200-30.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:11 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:12 -!- tensorpudding_ [~michael@99.23.124.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:18 tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.124.232] has joined #lisp 22:57:14 -!- TDT [~user@2620:0:e50:7022:20c:f1ff:fef5:bff1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:19 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:58:11 tensorpudding_ [~michael@108.87.19.80] has joined #lisp 22:59:06 -!- mgraham [~v0yager@c-68-59-200-30.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:31 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.23.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:02:41 heh every time I'm thinking of ordering one, I end up spending 1 hour on that site that advertises all the time, then dicking around with gimp making my own, then giving up in disgust 23:02:51 should just randomly select one and be done with it 23:03:56 benny [~benny@i577A2228.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 23:04:04 same here. i went with something pretty plain. they don't look great but they were free, so. 23:04:08 Xach's should be "Quicklisp: Fast, efficient, easy" 23:04:16 they have my PGP fingerprint on them, and the Quicklisp Q on the back. 23:04:53 nice 23:05:19 *p_l* was wondering if there is a standardized way to put PGP keys into QR-code 23:05:39 p_l: hmm, that would be cool. 23:05:51 stassats was going to write me a qr-code generator 23:07:09 you can make separate one to give to russian speaking lispers, with "Quicklisp: CPAN " and you'll make a friend for life 23:07:42 great, (net.telent.date::parse-time "Tue, 28 Feb 2012 19:02:10 +0000") works 23:07:47 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399828.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:08:03 *Xach* took 2 years of russian in school, would love to endear himself to russian lispers 23:08:24 maxm-: hmm... google translate is failing me there... 23:08:31 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:08:46 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128032110.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:08 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399828.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:18 its an untranslatable idiom, the closest I can come up to in english would be "QuickLisp: CPAN can go f.. itself" 23:09:31 but not NSFW 23:09:32 use nfc tags 23:09:59 -!- johannix [~mirani@208.77.234.34] has left #lisp 23:10:21 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399828.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 23:10:26 or more like "cpan does not even come close" but russian phrase kind of catches it in 1 word 23:10:33 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399828.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:11:43 -!- mstevens_ [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:12:46 heh 23:12:50 they did not teach that in my class 23:13:19 Yeah, that's the problem with teaching languages in schools: you don't learn the language. 23:13:49 We watched bad russian punk rock videos, but nothing related to Lisp 23:14:02 heh 23:14:08 nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:16 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:16:15 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 23:16:29 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:14 :) 23:17:40 Froward [~uh-oh@206.231.99.110] has joined #lisp 23:18:53 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:19:07 So it turns out there is no reason for doing something like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/128041 23:19:56 Helmut removed *sldb-printer-bindings* from swank.lisp circa 2011-11-21 23:20:56 o my 23:21:16 I'd been using Quicklisp slime-20110619-cvs after updating to slime-20120208-cvs i get a behaviour inline with my preferences. 23:25:09 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:10 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:26:19 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:27:09 totzeit1 [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:32 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:57 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-195-104.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:30:08 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-195-104.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:30 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-14-217.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:38:12 is there an alternative to the return-from operator, one that doesn't need a function identifier? 23:39:08 quazimodo: Yes. Use a (block nil ...) construct. 23:39:15 quazimodo: then you can use (return ...) to return. 23:39:25 quazimodo: many control forms have an implicit block nil. 23:39:41 quazimodo: functions establish a block named with the function name. that's how return-from works. 23:39:44 Xach: i'll read about it 23:39:49 http://l1sp.org/cl/block 23:39:56 cheers 23:40:06 many constructs introduce their own nil blocks 23:40:42 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: Close the world, Open the nExt] 23:41:06 so I'd recommend just to use return-from 23:41:22 oh block seems interesting 23:41:29 I don't like return-from when I think I might rename the function. 23:41:42 klltkr [~klltkr@188-222-83-162.zone13.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:41:44 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-160-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:07 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-120-213.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:15 Xach, that seems quite a rare event to me.. is it not? 23:42:30 i guess because of the nested ways we de things in lisp you need to supply exactly which level you wish to break from 23:42:36 adeht: Lucky you :) 23:42:47 quazimodo: not usually 23:42:51 http://paste.lisp.org/display/128044  fortune-for-tonight 23:43:18 Xach: isnt that why we have to supply the function name to break-from 23:43:31 if we had other blocks within the function we could break from them 23:43:32 righ 23:43:50 [SLB] [~slabua@host248-53-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:43:50 -!- [SLB] [~slabua@host248-53-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Changing host] 23:43:50 [SLB] [~slabua@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 23:44:19 quazimodo: i often find restructuring my code better than using return or return-from 23:44:33 quazimodo: Most of my functions just naturally return the final form in some way 23:44:38 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-125-130.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:42 Or through COND, or IF, or WHEN, or whatever. 23:44:45 quazimodo: return and return-from are not entirely unlike goto. 23:47:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 23:48:38 Does anyone see some kind of issue with the package system, in that since it only exports symbols and no other objects, it is not possible to "hide" certain things which can be referred to by the same symbol, like a type/function/variable? 23:49:05 (issue, in the lacking sense, NOT the standards-conforming sense) 23:49:37 Qworkescence: no 23:49:49 Qworkescence: sometimes, but it's never been more than a minor annoyance. 23:49:52 Qworkescence, I see it as a "theoretical issue" mostly.. 23:50:12 Just my Thought for Today. 23:51:26 H4ns: oh, in general avoid 23:51:27 ok 23:51:32 so heres another quesion 23:52:18 with lambda expressions is it convention to use (funcall #'(lambda etetc) args), or ((lambda etc etc) args) 23:52:34 quazimodo: those are two very different situations. 23:53:00 dont they simply 'evaluaty'? 23:53:19 ((lambda ...) ...) syntax is a special case in the evaluator 23:53:21 why would you want either? 23:53:36 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.62] has joined #lisp 23:53:40 adeht: i dno? im just learning :) 23:53:48 never written my own lambda yet 23:54:01 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:56:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.62] has quit [Client Quit] 23:58:46 quazimodo, do you have a book by chance? 23:59:59 quasisane, some times such forms can appear in macro expansions, that can take function names or lambda expressions