00:00:29 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-178-78.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:46 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-156-171.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:02:46 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 00:02:54 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 00:05:44 pnq [~nick@ACA26D9C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:52 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:07:59 Very confusing: NO-APPLICABLE-METHOD: When calling CLOSER-MOP:MAKE-METHOD-LAMBDA with arguments (# # (LAMBDA ) NIL) 00:08:19 (standard-generic-function standard-method t t) is the _only_ method. *sigh* 00:08:22 *sellout* kicks clisp 00:09:19 sellout: Are you sure alexandria:format-symbol is OK wrt to automagically generated symbols? It might not do what you expect if you store the returned symbol in a hash-table. 00:09:49 mon_key: How would it not? 00:12:56 has clisp gotten better with MOP support in the last few years? 00:13:14 i used to be a clisp partisan and that was the one thing that made me really sad back then and made me switch 00:13:21 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 00:14:39 sellout http://paste.lisp.org/+2QMY 00:15:42 -!- |nix|`` [~user@66-194-253-20.static.twtelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:16:14 sellout: M-x slime-insepct *my-hash* should make it more clearer. 00:18:46 Kron_ [~Kron@216.99.52.150] has joined #lisp 00:19:15 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:20:10 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:46 mon_key: Mmmm, that does exactly what I would expect  00:21:01 so not a problem then :) 00:21:09 No, not at all  00:21:17 And I don't see how it's related to the hash table. 00:23:13 mon_key: What did you think the problem was? 00:23:19 mon_key: that's not the way to use format-symbol 00:23:33 That is also true :) 00:23:47 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-49-137.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:55 mon_key: The point is that it lets you do modern-friendly symbol generation. 00:24:29 I get two symbols COMMON-LISP-USER::BUBBA and COMMON-LISP-USER::|bubba| 00:24:51 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA26D9C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:25:03 mon_key: Right, that's the correct behavior. If you're interning "bubba", you get |bubba| 00:25:19 if the point of FORMAT-SYMBOL is to allow a modern-friendly then it should be indicated that the user should be carefull of case conversion in the format string. 00:25:39 mon_key: No, you don't use a format string, that's the point. 00:25:44 mon_key: http://paste.lisp.org/+2QMY/1 00:25:58 (format-symbol '#:~a 'bubba)  no strings 00:26:12 oh, I forgot the package arg, but you get it. 00:26:31 Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:13 mon_key: it's for readtable-case agnostic concatenation of symbol names 00:27:16 :D 00:27:33 sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:38 now i understand what format-symbol does. 00:27:45 docs are unclear IMHO 00:28:40 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 00:28:42 lehmann simulates behaviour of a 2 dimentional array using a one dimentional one instead of simply using a 2 dimentional array, he says one dimentional is somehow faster, is that still the case or was it probably an issue with sbcl then? 00:28:50 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 00:28:52 mon_key: the docstring describes what it does, not what it's suitable for 00:29:23 a common problem with documentation :) 00:29:52 examples help me immensely 00:30:20 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 00:30:48 (defun linear-aref (array x y x-max y-max) 00:30:48 "Get a value from a linear (rank-1) ARRAY as if it was rank-2 with 00:30:49 dimensions X-MAX and Y-MAX." 00:30:49 (declare (ignore y-max)) 00:30:49 (aref array (+ (* y x-max) x))) 00:31:00 kenanb: still true. 00:31:35 pure genius production code, I know 00:33:09 pkhuong: is it an sbcl only issue? 00:33:25 Even more important production code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127835 00:34:13 kenanb: probably not. 00:34:46 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:47 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:47 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 00:35:08 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:36:01 There are two issues here: non-vector arrays are represented with a shape vector and a pointer to a data vector. That's one more indirection. Also, there's very little strength reduction for loopy code, and no common subexpression recognition. Each array access has to read the shape vector, compute a linear index, and index into the data vector. 00:36:28 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:36:31 Type declarations can help move some address computation to compile-time, but it's still not that hot. 00:37:43 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:37:59 pkhuong, I'm surprised multidimensional arrays aren't better 00:38:29 chenbing` [~user@115.192.210.69] has joined #lisp 00:39:18 Qworkescence: I'm guessing that fortran was similar back then, and that people expected to handle the indexing by hand (e.g. like BLAS code). 00:39:35 pkhuong: thanks for the detailed explanation, i hope my question wasn't something that can easily be found on a google search, since i couldn't :) 00:40:13 pkhuong, will SBCL compute the index if the indexes are constant at compile-time? 00:41:30 Qworkescence: indices and shape, yes. 00:41:57 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.2.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:10 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:46:43 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:50:01 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:50:11 FIND-CLASS is justified in signaling an error when the first arg isn't a symbol, even if errorp is NIL, right? 00:50:37 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:30 Farzad [~user@46.225.110.122] has joined #lisp 00:53:48 sellout: yes. 00:55:45 -!- Farzad [~user@46.225.110.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:37 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:57:43 -!- poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:58 poindontcare [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #lisp 00:58:02 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:01 (* 3.0 6.29) 00:59:04 wups 00:59:06 sorry :) 01:00:38 but since i wrote it, is there a way for that to make it result 18.87 instead of 18.869999 01:01:23 kenanb: no. 01:02:01 You'll have more bits with double floats, but floating point numbers always have a bounded number of bits. 01:02:12 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 01:03:06 so what should someone do to make precise computations? 01:03:08 kenanb: you could get the rounding by two numbers by stating (/ (round (* 3.0 6.29 100)) 100), but then it's not a float 01:03:36 kenanb: you don't use floats for precise computations (/ 5 238) returns a rational that lisp can work with :) 01:03:43 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:04:11 use rationals or live with approximations. 01:05:32 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 01:05:40 kenanb: the downside of rationals is that they tend to be slower than floats, the upside is that they yield correct results. whether or not the errors of floating point numbers is an issue greatly depends on your application. java programmers live with it, and that's industry standard. 01:06:20 well, where it matters, java programmers end up implementing their own accurate math 01:06:25 it just rarely matters 01:06:52 Ralith: Greenspun's tenth rule of computer programming for the win 01:07:00 i don't find it problematic to get 18.869999, i tried it because same computation just resulted in 18.88 while testing matrix multiplication code in the raytracer tutorial 01:07:20 madnificent: indeed. 01:08:29 kenanb: if it's just for that multiplication, then i doubt can be off 0.01 01:09:34 now i wonder how much computer resources are spent every moment to show rounded versions of floats in user interfaces of programs 01:10:36 *kenanb* also wonders if computer resource has a plural form as he just assumed 01:11:00 you can always do 629/100 -- there's also a library or two floating around for reading decimal notation into a rational numbers 01:14:37 anyway, there are much worse things in life: https://bugs.php.net/bug.php?id=61095 01:15:01 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:18:13 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx57-2b-44.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:19:03 -!- ltaoist [~mo@183.20.101.241] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:18 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:31 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:21:42 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:21:50 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AAA4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:28:27 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 01:33:11 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-carl-201-141.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 01:34:16 when will they learn. 01:40:21 pnq 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01:52:22 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:54:40 boyscare1 [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:36 Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-193-208.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 01:57:47 setheus_ [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:09 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:20 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:01:55 jaimef_ [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 02:02:23 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 02:03:06 -!- jaimef [~jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:03:06 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:03:06 -!- ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:03:06 -!- joast [~rick@98.145.91.18] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:03:06 -!- _3b___ [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:03:06 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:03:06 -!- setheus [~setheus@72.190.112.13] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:03:06 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 02:03:06 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 02:03:07 -!- boyscare1 is now known as boyscared 02:03:07 -!- jaimef_ is now known as jaimef 02:05:45 That's because FORMAT ~A caters to *print-case*. 02:05:49 ivan\ [~ivan@unaffiliated/ivan/x-000001] has joined #lisp 02:05:59 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:05 -!- icrazyhack [horieyui@115.173.218.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07:15 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-193-208.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07:38 icrazyhack [horieyui@115.173.218.132] has joined #lisp 02:12:35 Froward [~PANZERKON@64.134.68.24] has joined #lisp 02:13:34 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:36 wubo 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[~kennyd@93-139-44-209.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:59:11 ksergio [~sergio@cnq42-55.cablevision.qc.ca] has joined #lisp 03:59:14 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:59:14 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:59:14 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:59:20 hello 03:59:41 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.82.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:00:07 Question: I want to print a structure (say, using write or format ~S directive)... how do I force it to print the fully package-qualified name? 04:01:00 ksergio: bind cl:*package* to the keyword package 04:01:01 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.158] has joined #lisp 04:01:50 thanks, Xach 04:03:44 _3b___ [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:48 de nada 04:03:50 -!- syrinx_ is now known as g00se 04:07:06 -!- g00se is now known as syrinx_ 04:07:12 ikki [~ikki@189.195.84.123] has joined #lisp 04:09:01 fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has joined #lisp 04:12:03 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.84.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:17:25 stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-33-149.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 04:17:30 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-33-149.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Changing host] 04:17:30 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:17:50 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 04:20:24 ikki [~ikki@189.195.84.123] has joined #lisp 04:23:38 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@64.134.239.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:24:20 -!- rme [rme@13FF0A92.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:24:20 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:28:39 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 04:35:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.84.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:37:46 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 04:37:58 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 04:38:12 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 04:38:13 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 04:39:19 dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:04 Xach: some images of my demo but with a new system menu http://imgur.com/a/9TpaA#0 04:40:39 unfortunately imgur scales them JUST enough to look ugly, so you have to click zoom to see the exact rendering. 04:41:31 im having a quick coffee break before i get back to hacking. 04:41:39 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 04:41:56 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 04:42:39 looks like squeek 04:43:14 stassats: yes 04:43:21 squeak, rather 04:43:42 stassats: did you see the video version 04:44:01 nope 04:44:17 if you are interested, i can give you either mp4 or ogv versions. 04:44:37 it demonstrates the basics of this gui framework, and then shows briefly one application of it 04:45:10 not really interested right now 04:45:20 ok. 04:46:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.10] has joined #lisp 04:46:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.10] has quit [Changing host] 04:46:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:46:57 dto: can the UI system be decoupled from rest of blocky? 04:47:56 there isn't much else to blocky than that. 04:48:37 it is a ui system in which "gui objects" are not especially distinct from game objects and can behave in both roles at times. 04:49:22 a related question is, can you use blocky to build UI's for stuff having nothing to do with blocky, well yes 04:50:34 i'm trying to make it really easy to define blocks. 04:52:31 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:53:13 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:54:07 p_l: i guess what i mean is: blocky is not coupled to anything in the first place. 04:54:45 heh 04:54:55 I was thinking of hijacking that for UI work :P 04:55:36 p_l: you can check it out if you want, although HEAD at the moment may be a bit messed up. 04:56:10 p_l: i would like to have a "real" beta later this year sometime. i have some things to do before i could really call it a beta. 04:59:57 at the moment it requires opengl. 05:00:20 but i could probably implement an sdl fallback without too much trouble. 05:02:31 just did a sloccount: http://pastebin.com/NQA78MRu 05:04:03 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:04:39 the person-years estimates are interesting. 05:04:48 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:05:05 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 05:05:16 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:05:31 yeah i wonder about those 05:06:15 i rewrite the same code over and over, how would it know? 05:06:41 something counting all the commits should be more accurate 05:06:46 i couldn't have written this in one stretch anyway. it evolved over six years from something of similar size in Emacs Lisp 05:07:02 five years 05:09:21 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:10:31 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:11:31 I especially love sloccount's "cost estimate" 05:11:58 :) 05:13:32 -!- kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:31 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:17:18 especially since it counts nicely in ways that make it look like setting up ASDF would pay back for a new laptop 05:17:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-117-44.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:20:51 imagine a beowulf cluster of laptops you can buy on money earned by writing .asd files 05:22:24 stassats: I'd start by imagining buying a laptop that I can be sure will do a cold boot successfully 05:23:10 my ~4yo thinkpad unfortunately got enough physical damage to give me a scare toay 05:23:12 *today 05:23:48 you need it to boot it only once though 05:23:54 -!- sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:24:29 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 05:24:36 stassats: yes, but any non-kexec kernel upgrade, any full power failure (rare but happens) and I'm in deep shit 05:24:55 wakeup from S3 bypasses system health check which died on me today due to fan 05:27:00 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:28:58 p_l: which model? 05:29:00 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:29:46 *hefner* loves old thinkpads, perpetually tempted to look for T61p to work on instead of his mac 05:30:33 but the newer ones compile SBCL faster! 05:30:51 thanks for sneaking some lisp in there. 05:34:19 i used to bullseye womp rats with my T16 back home 05:36:25 arrr. 05:38:13 hefner: R61i 05:38:36 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 05:38:38 with lowest-spec 64bit C2D 05:39:27 as for the lisp angle - if I lose the laptop, it will be much harder to work on a project which uses 64bit ACL8.2 and AGraph :/ 05:41:41 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:41:51 ah, allegrograph. more fine technology doomed to a life of proprietary obscurity. I hope it earns its authors a living wage. 05:42:25 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:42:33 -!- syrinx_ is now known as g00se 05:43:02 personally I get a feeling the groups capable of using it can deal with its nature 05:43:19 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-198.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 05:43:22 the rest will be busy tweeting about their webscale nosql 05:44:13 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:44:46 dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 05:44:46 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128128071.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:45:36 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:45:59 I jest, of course. 05:46:32 argh 05:46:37 found a nice, used thinkpad 05:46:53 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:47:00 but not sure if the GPU isn't a bit mouldy by now >_> 05:47:58 -!- dto [~user@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:48:40 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:49:42 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-153-15.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:50:16 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 05:50:50 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-117-217.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:51:07 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:52:21 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-244-50-48.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 05:53:54 -!- diginet [~diginet@ppp-69-153-141-111.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:09 diginet [~diginet@ppp-69-153-141-111.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:02 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:00:55 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:06 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:02:17 hmm, allegrograph seems to have a lot more customers than I'd imagined. I was half expecting to find a press release on their web site proudly proclaiming "Franz scores first AllegroGraph customer", dated 2010. 06:02:55 -!- CrazyEddy [~detainabl@113.52.233.45] has quit [Changing host] 06:02:56 CrazyEddy [~detainabl@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 06:03:22 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 06:03:35 no, it seems that they've got some big institutional clients 06:04:16 I know they were looking for consultants to fill in some lisp coding related to AGraph for some customer's project 06:07:08 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:14:07 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 06:16:03 Harag [~phil@dsl-244-50-48.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:16:26 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:18:11 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:19:23 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:19:30 I just bought a thinkpad to replace my circa 2005 powerbook 17. 06:19:48 I'm looking forward to sbcl builds that happen faster than 60 minutes. 06:19:57 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:20:28 I just got one too, laptops are so fast nowadays 06:21:01 this thing builds a kernel in ~1 minute 06:21:14 what do you have, joshe? 06:21:42 a thinkpad x220 with the i7 cpu 06:21:48 if only the GPU was upgradeable 06:21:50 *nod* 06:22:00 I ordered a W520 06:22:10 I'm looking at used T510 06:22:20 UPS has it in kentucky; i won't see it until tuesday. 06:22:24 (ups sucks) 06:22:28 the x220 is so amazingly light, and gets good battery life even in openbsd 06:22:59 I'd love it, if not for the fact that a) recent intel HD can beat its NVS3100M b) delivery might be past wednesday 06:23:33 lenovo's lead time to deliver an order is kind of long. 06:23:35 now I have no good excuse not to improve the openbsd port of sbcl 06:23:39 my x220 compiles SBCL in under 4 minutes 06:23:44 splittist [~splittist@74-104.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 06:23:50 Fade: well, I'm looking at used 06:23:53 they said 16 business days, but if it arrives tuesday, that'll be exactly two standard weeks. 06:24:06 morning 06:24:07 Fade: yea 06:24:12 I can get thinkpad edge for similar price as that T510 and have it delivered monday 06:24:16 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-244-50-48.telkomadsl.co.za] has left #lisp 06:24:23 *p_l* needs a dependable computer next week 06:24:25 they said mine would take ~1 month, but it arrived in a couple weeks 06:24:46 of course I ordered right after christmas, during a big sale 06:24:48 Fade: at least you didn't order high-end Eurocom :) 06:25:03 Eurocom? 06:25:42 Fade: they are infamous in certain circles for making machines that seem to be laptops made of desktop^Wworkstation parts 06:25:51 ah 06:26:23 and every order for high-end one is basically assembled from start for each order 06:26:46 well, the W520 is getting pretty good reviews. apparently the battery is excellent, which will be novel. my powerbook didn't even get much more than 2 hours under modest load when it was new. 06:27:27 mind you, their high end machines are the ones you might use to run full Finite element simulation on-site, do realtime rendering, etc. 06:27:48 (or plug in as quite loaded server with built-in UPS) 06:28:26 jaythemarketman [~Jnew@d149-67-124-114.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 06:28:34 :) 06:28:47 Ah well. I'm off. Have a good evening, folks 06:28:50 cya 06:29:39 Hello what the best Linux distro out right now? 06:31:04 Since you're asking in #lisp, I assume you mean "best distribution for lisp", I'm not sure, but I believe most people who use Debian are pretty happy with it. 06:31:25 no 06:31:39 debian as goood for a newbie as ubuntu 06:32:42 the best Linux is the one you know best 06:33:15 *hefner* finds that prospect depressing. 06:33:25 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@216.99.52.150] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:34:36 pretty much any ubuntu can run emacs 06:34:44 what more do you need 06:34:49 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:58 I need it to not fuck up the keyboard, for one thing. 06:35:01 tomodo: a clear way to disable both unity and gnome shell? 06:35:03 tomodo: sanity 06:35:14 ^ 06:35:43 I actually wanted to use Unity, but I could never make emacs work right. 06:36:20 I think in linux mint they have unity disabled 06:36:57 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:38:14 hefner: just get a mac already. 06:38:14 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:39:01 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:02 pkhuong: already do! :) 06:40:02 -!- jaythemarketman [~Jnew@d149-67-124-114.try.wideopenwest.com] has left #lisp 06:40:04 with the current status of graphic drivers on linux, it's easier for me to remote X from the laptop than to try and the monitor plugged on the workstation ;) 06:41:38 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 06:44:33 pkhuong: to make it funnier, if you are poor guy who got "nVidia Optimus", you end up remoting X anyway ;) 06:44:55 (if you want to use the nvidia gpu in laptop under anything other than windows) 06:48:19 *p_l* meanwhile starts to hate intel over their gpu 06:48:30 *hefner* should not have drank a large glass of coffee this late at night, especially with no projects in progress to hack on. 06:48:58 hefner: start a new one! 06:50:36 too many unfinished ones (which, for reasons I don't entirely understand, aren't eligible as something to hack on) 06:50:38 hmm 06:51:25 hefner: something short, one off? 06:51:56 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 06:52:37 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:15 hefner: if you want image processing stuff, extending napa-fft for multidimensional FFTs should be a couple dozen LOC. 06:55:17 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:07 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-76-183-81-208.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:56:23 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:57:09 that reminds me, my idea for an FFT hack was to attempt a realtime version of some pitch-space visualization I saw in a paper the other week, but I'd have to figure out the graphics side first. 06:58:27 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 06:58:54 -!- diginet [~diginet@ppp-69-153-141-111.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:00:08 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 07:00:16 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-198.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:01:16 come to think of it, I've got a lot of little ideas currently blocked at "I don't want to use McCLIM anymore, so now what?" 07:01:21 wildnux [~wildnux@pool-71-252-145-78.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:26 commonqt, obviously. 07:05:33 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:05:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:06:35 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:06:50 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:07:16 I should play with that, yeah. 07:08:23 looks quite good, though IMHO lacks a more lispy wrapper (not CLOS, but some "high-level" wrappings around some constructs) 07:08:27 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.125.53] has joined #lisp 07:11:15 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0536ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:45 *hefner* elects to build git ECL and see if his lisp game(s) still work on it. 07:11:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-206.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:12:45 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:02 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:14:28 diginet [~diginet@adsl-67-66-51-149.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:09 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:18:19 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:22:21 well, that didn't work. next idea! 07:27:11 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:24 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:29:40 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-143-4.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:15 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-153-15.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:31:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:37:29 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:38:01 I never realized how small ECL's compiler was (LOC-wise). 07:41:22 but is it fast? 07:41:36 or rather, its product 07:41:53 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 not that last time I checked. 07:42:26 fast enough to be interesting, though. 07:45:57 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:46:59 Still, 17k LOC is pretty good. Small enough that you can jump right into it. 07:47:12 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:50:03 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:19 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-401582.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:54:38 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@pool-71-252-145-78.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:56:57 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-44-209.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:57:14 -!- sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-204-168-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:58:00 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-204-168-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:09 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-23.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:59:46 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ddp] 08:02:29 -!- realitygrill 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[~HG@dsbg-4d0536ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:45 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:10:48 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 09:12:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13:18 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:24 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 09:13:32 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-190357.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 09:13:54 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-190-70.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:14:24 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-247-154.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:14:32 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:14:33 HG`` [~HG@dsbg-4d0536ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:54 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0536ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:17:10 -!- HG`` [~HG@dsbg-4d0536ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:15 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0536ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:01 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:20 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 09:21:27 autotools - the toilet you have to unclog with your bare hands. 09:23:41 s/hands/toothbrush or toothpick/ 09:25:44 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:26:15 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.170.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:26:52 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0098.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:34 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0098.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 09:27:44 Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.244.248] has joined #lisp 09:27:57 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.170.44] has joined #lisp 09:28:07 oh, you've got to be kidding. 09:29:46 finally got my code to build again (or rather, coerced ECL into building it), but forgot I needed unicode support enabled in ECL. Recompiled ECL with unicode enabled, and now ECL freezes near the beginning of my build script. 09:30:00 see, I knew using unicode was a bad idea. 09:30:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:30:14 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 09:32:41 -!- Indecipherable [~Indeciphe@41.29.244.248] has quit [Quit: used jmIrc] 09:33:09 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:33:33 No, I'm too tired. It should've been built with unicode by default. The switch I actually added was --enable-threads, not --enable-unicode, and it hangs in GC_lock, which is presumably in flux as juanjo rewrites the locking code. 09:33:38 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:34:43 "very interesting, and how do you call your project?" "cl-aristocrats" 09:34:47 ccl 1.7 doesn't work on wine: $ wine ./wx86cl.exe --> wine: Invalid address :-( 09:34:47 09:35:10 maxm--: I am simultaneously amused and offended. 09:39:34 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0098.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:40:48 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0098.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 09:41:32 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:42:48 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:56 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:40 dtw: ccl 1.7 doesn't work on wine: $ wine ./wx86cl.exe --> wine: Invalid address :-( 09:46:52 hello folks. a new video of some interactive messing around with game objects. https://github.com/downloads/dto/blocky/blocky-lightning-talk-3-edit.mp4 09:46:54 wine-1.2.3 here. 09:46:54 09:46:59 s/dtw/dto 09:47:26 pjb: what? ccl? 09:47:29 ive never tried it 09:48:02 dto: yes. 09:48:31 ive gotten sbcl to work on wine, though. 09:48:41 I'll try it next. 09:49:19 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 09:49:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 09:49:19 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:50:41 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 09:51:24 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:39 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:54:56 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:55:31 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:28 danishman [~kvirc@62.243.156.218] has joined #lisp 09:56:48 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:57:24 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 09:58:15 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:59:01 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:23 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 10:00:20 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:00:40 Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-37.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:01:00 brooke [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:32 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-190357.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:03:53 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-128-63.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:55 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-134-196.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:57 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-411322.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 10:05:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:08:09 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:08:14 _nix00 [~Adium@222.65.224.213] has joined #lisp 10:08:15 -!- brooke [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:01 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-198.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:12:27 -!- ngz [~user@69.205.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:13:21 yay. it lives - http://vintage-digital.com/hefner/misc/ggg-lives.png 10:13:39 now I can go back to completely neglecting it, and not bothering to file bug reports for ECL. 10:13:59 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:14:25 Looks nice. 10:14:52 thanks. 10:15:02 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: Heaven isnt a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.] 10:15:26 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:26 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:15:26 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 10:16:40 hefner: is that a computer game powered by alien technology 10:16:54 particularly secret alien technology, apparently. 10:17:08 certainly looks good 10:17:14 kudos 10:17:26 not bad for programmer art. 10:18:05 hefner: oooh, a simplistic 4X? :) 10:18:45 Does Clozure CL still get updated? 10:18:51 p_l: not simplistic enough for me to finish, apparently. a little streamlined compared to the original Master of Orion, but similar. 10:19:15 Sgeo: yes 10:19:51 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:20:54 How do I make something compatible with setf? I remember looking this up before, then I remember seeing that some Schemes that support set! (or maybe just a more flexible set! than usual?) support something like (set! (set! (blah)) foo) or ... something like that, iirc 10:21:14 (defun (setf ...) ...) 10:21:19 -!- robot-beethoven [~user@c-24-118-142-0.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:22:33 Wait, what, really? 10:23:19 there is also define-setf-expander and defsetf 10:24:11 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:24:22 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 10:24:32 Sgeo, yes, really. 10:24:52 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:25:08 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 10:25:40 umm, does it not actually need to be (defmethod (setf...)...) 10:26:24 no 10:26:30 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:26:30 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 10:27:30 p_l: but are you not changing the whole setf mechanism then 10:27:36 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 10:28:14 Guthur: it's a special case, I believe 10:28:48 Hmm, defun is not define 10:29:00 CL is not Scheme. 10:29:01 If defun were Scheme's define, it would look like redefining setf 10:29:18 But it looks more like making a function with a name that has setf 10:30:40 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 10:33:18 *Sgeo* is curious about both how well or badly I'd get used to CL coming from Haskell and get used to SLIME after having played with Smalltalk 10:33:23 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@vil69-1-82-67-51-185.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:52 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:38:44 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-128-63.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 10:39:03 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-128-63.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:39:46 Let's see 10:39:51 In Haskell: 10:39:55 f (g 5) 10:40:01 (f . g) 5 10:40:03 In CL 10:40:07 (f (g 5)) 10:40:22 earthshattering difference there. 10:40:38 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:40:38 (funcall (. #'f #'g) 5) 10:41:28 (Assuming I write . of course) 10:41:57 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:43:27 Use a macro. 10:43:34 moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-076-141.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:37 or alexandria:compose 10:44:24 alexandria? 10:44:27 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD939.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:56 (ql:quickload :alexandria) ;nice utility library 10:45:25 A library which implements some common idoms. 10:45:30 idioms* 10:45:55 Do I still need to use funcall and #' ? 10:46:09 Yes. 10:46:26 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 10:46:55 Sgeo: or you can write: (funcall (com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility:compose f g) 5) 10:47:00 What's the difference between :this and 'this 10:47:00 ? 10:47:01 if you don't want to write #' 10:47:01 osa1 [~sinan@78.176.254.227] has joined #lisp 10:47:13 lol 10:47:17 :this is a symbol interned in the package named "KEYWORD" 10:48:05 'this is a list of two elements, the first being the symbol CL:QUOTE, and the second a symbol named "THIS" or "this" depending on the readtable-case, in the package bound to CL:*PACKAGE* (which may or may not be the package named "KEYWORD"). 10:48:12 pjb, can I .. do namespacy stuff to make that macro directly visible as compose? 10:48:37 Sgeo: when evaluating :THIS, you get :THIS, since symbols interned in the package named "KEYWORD" are automatically defined as self evaluating constants. 10:48:58 Sgeo: when evaluating 'THIS you get THIS (which remember, may be or not the same as :THIS). 10:49:06 Sgeo: sure. 10:49:18 (import 'com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility:compose) 10:49:23 (funcall (compose f g) 5) 10:49:26 Ok 10:49:40 or (use-package :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility) to get all of them wholesale. 10:50:06 Sgeo: you should read PCL. 10:50:17 Sgeo: or (Defpackage :your-pack (:use :cl :com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.utility)) (in-package :your-pack) 10:50:25 I looked at it... a long time ago 10:51:41 There's a thing in your brain that could be useful. It's named "memory", if memory serves 10:52:34 Is Cello usable, or still in infancy or what? 10:52:58 Sgeo: Depends on what you mean by "Is", by "usable" by "in infancy" or by "what" 10:53:30 It's free software: you are free to debug it, to complete it, and to do whatever you want with it. 10:53:32 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0098.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 10:53:57 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:54:01 Sure, but, without modifying it, is it in a state where I can just pick it up and write a GUI program with it? 10:54:11 *Sgeo* has never really done GUIs in any language except VB before 10:54:15 You may print it on paper and use it in the toilettes, therefore making it quite "usable". Or you can load it in your lisp image and call its macros and functions. Your call. 10:54:37 Oh 10:54:39 "It is currently in a prerelease state, and under rapid development." 10:54:41 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0098.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 10:54:43 fsbot says tias -- Try it and see! (then tell us what you saw) 10:55:15 Sgeo: so you should be happy, it's "maintained"! 10:55:37 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 10:55:48 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:58:05 *hefner* didn't think anyone used Cello 10:58:49 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1E56.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:59:04 I'm surprised to even hear about it, unless someone has been reading c.l.l archives from the previous decade. 11:00:16 I was just googling Common Lisp GUI 11:01:03 ah, interesting. 11:01:17 matiuli [~matiuli@93-33-237-78.ip46.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:01:32 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-52-198.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:01:36 -!- matiuli [~matiuli@93-33-237-78.ip46.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:02:44 ltaoist [~mo@2001:250:3002:4650:226a:8aff:fe39:64c5] has joined #lisp 11:09:32 kind of a shame really, the basic idea behind cello seemed worthwhile 11:12:47 Sgeo: what do you think about web GUI? It is the fastest way to make GUI with cl, but that way has some restrictions. 11:13:28 Hmm, not too thrilled with that idea, I guess, not sure. 11:13:38 Link to information? 11:16:51 zfx [~zfx@host109-156-17-26.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:17:11 -!- zfx [~zfx@host109-156-17-26.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:17:12 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 11:17:36 ok, one of common lisp web stack is: hunchentoot, restas (route handlers), cl-closure-template (html templates), parenscript (common lisp to javascript), and JavaScript GUI library (for example, jQuery, jQuery-UI). 11:17:56 What kind of application do you want to do? 11:18:50 Sgeo there's commonqt if you want desktop application 11:19:00 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has left #lisp 11:20:15 "(On Windows, run qmake followed by vcbuild.)" 11:20:26 Is that for troubleshooting or for all installation? 11:20:29 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:28:21 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@222.65.224.213] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:28:39 -!- rgc [~user@99.Red-83-43-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:29:06 benny [~benny@i577A1AB9.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:31:45 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-140-242.w90-26.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:32:36 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:32:47 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-128-63.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:19 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-128-63.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:34:23 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 11:34:46 Sgeo: what will your application do? 11:35:11 -!- nowhereman [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-108-56.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:35:14 -!- ltaoist [~mo@2001:250:3002:4650:226a:8aff:fe39:64c5] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:35 I guess I'm thinking it will use a certain C API to connect to something 11:36:38 And then do stuff there 11:36:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:48 ^^really very informative 11:37:01 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:37:31 There aren't a lot of options if you want to just play around. Everything free requires time & effort to set up and learn and the commercial stuff requires time to learn. 11:37:50 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-128-63.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:37:54 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082B434.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:04 If I ever want to make a GUI CL program to sell I will probably pay for CAPI. Until then I do web stuff. 11:38:53 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-151.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:34 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 11:39:48 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-411322.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:09 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B32676B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:40:36 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:41:22 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:43:01 and there is CFFI to interface C with Lisp. 11:43:39 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.176.254.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:44:44 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 11:44:46 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-124-151.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:46:33 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:46:38 What's the difference between CFFI and UFFI? 11:47:54 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has quit [Quit: Huh.] 11:48:04 UFFI is deprecated in favor of CFFI. 11:48:22 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:49:24 Ah 11:49:47 and CFFI includes UFFI-COMPAT 11:50:00 http://trac.clozure.com/ccl/wiki/OpenMclFfi this thing apparently just goes out and reads a C header. 11:50:09 Can/does CFFI do that? 11:50:28 swig does it. 11:50:43 http://www.swig.org/Doc1.3/Lisp.html 11:51:37 the CFFI manual mentions CFFI-GROVEL 11:53:54 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:58:07 Yuuhi [benni@p5483DA2B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:05 -!- diginet [~diginet@adsl-67-66-51-149.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:14 diginet [~diginet@adsl-67-66-51-149.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:55 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-180-194.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:06:04 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:09:21 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-stm/doc/tutorial.html 12:09:25 What a helpful tutorial. 12:11:35 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:13:01 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:15:40 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:15:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:16:00 saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 12:16:14 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 12:17:59 CL-STM TODO  Start writing tutorial. But there are examples. 12:18:23 pnq1 [~nick@ACA342FE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:18:35 -!- pnq [~nick@AC815F14.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:20:19 hi all, i have a syntax problem with the "loop for x being the elements of" construct in clisp 12:20:26 http://pastebin.com/Xh22uVKe 12:20:36 just tried with sbcl and it works fine 12:21:02 could be a compatibility problem? afaik that construct should be pretty standard 12:22:14 osa1 [~sinan@78.176.254.227] has joined #lisp 12:24:15 saste: better use http://paste.lisp.org/new 12:24:33 for lists, it's (loop for x in '(1 2 3) do (print x)) 12:25:18 pjb: i need to iterate through the elements of a sequence (a string in this case) 12:25:35 saste: check clhs loop. 12:25:43 being appears only in for-as-hash and for-as-package. 12:25:56 strings are vectors: (loop for ch across string do ) 12:26:16 -!- micro`_ is now known as micro 12:27:53 pjb: ah ok i was reading from here: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lcl50/loop/loop-1.html 12:28:17 pjb: so this seems to be a feature of liquid lisp, not a standard feature 12:28:24 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 12:28:50 pjb: makes sense, thanks for helping me figure it out (still a lisp noob here) 12:29:16 saste: there's an extensible implementation of loop, but it's an extension to CL. Not conforming. 12:29:36 saste: you could load it and use (loop:loop instead of (cl:loop. 12:30:07 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:30:12 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:31 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 12:33:19 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:36:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:37:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:38:46 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-126.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:42 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:02 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:17 fantasti` [~user@210.13.109.67] has joined #lisp 12:47:37 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:47:52 -!- fantasticsid [~user@178.18.16.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:20 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has joined #lisp 12:49:30 paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-95-40-52-183.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has joined #lisp 12:51:38 huh I wanna to try writing the quine program that is the one which puts its own source code on the input, Can you give some tips before I look at solution on wiki ? The trivial is any quoted literal , but that's not what we want , do we ? ... 12:51:43 -!- fantasti` [~user@210.13.109.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:52:15 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0536ac.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:52:54 paul424: yes, this is lisp. This is what we want. 12:53:17 Notice however that any program containing a quoted literal willbe BIGGER than the quoted literal, therefore the quoted literal cannot be all there is to it. 12:53:53 ahh right... 12:53:57 paul424: In CL, there's a lot of trivial quines. 12:54:03 1 => 1 12:54:09 "Hello World" => "Hello World" 12:54:15 :quine => :QUINE 12:57:40 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:58:04 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:02:01 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:02:51 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 13:03:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:08:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:35 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-247-154.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:12:41 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-160-241-37.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:43 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-247-154.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:14:58 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:15:55 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-156-126.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:46 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 13:17:56 -!- pnq1 [~nick@ACA342FE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:18:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-156-126.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:19:03 pnq [~nick@ACA342FE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:51 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-246-198.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:11 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f7353f1.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 13:20:34 paul424: so, what about your quine? 13:21:16 it is making :D pjg 13:21:19 pjb :D 13:21:24 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 13:21:35 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-246-198.as43234.net] has quit [Client Quit] 13:22:15 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:22:18 kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 13:23:12 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-156-126.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:23:48 dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 13:24:17 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-246-198.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:00 -!- kenanb is now known as Guest63039 13:25:04 -!- Jabberwockey [~quassel@83.151.30.10] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 13:25:20 kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 13:25:31 Froward [~PANZERKON@64.134.68.77] has joined #lisp 13:26:06 -!- Guest63039 [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:26:06 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-247-47.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:20 -!- kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:28:11 -!- espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2477.res.insa-lyon.fr] has quit [Quit: espadrine] 13:29:37 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-246-198.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:30:45 paul424: the principle is easy: take whatever, insert a placeholder in the middle: what#ever. Replace the placeholder with it: whatwhat#everever and you have it. 13:30:54 Just make sure whatever does that and prints itself. 13:32:00 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 13:32:16 Let's try: (defun quine () (let ((quine '\#)) (print (substitute quine '\# quine)))) 13:32:26 (defun quine () (let ((quine '(defun quine () (let ((quine '\#)) (print (substitute quine '\# quine)))))) (print (substitute quine '\# quine)))) => QUINE 13:32:32 (quine) => (DEFUN QUINE NIL (LET ((QUINE '\#)) (PRINT (SUBSTITUTE QUINE '\# QUINE)))) 13:32:45 Something's wrong. Let's work on it 13:32:52 ok ok let me tinker a little :D 13:33:27 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has joined #lisp 13:37:53 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:38 paul424: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127840 13:39:50 Don't look at it right now. 13:41:17 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-247-47.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:22 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-149-53.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:58 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.176.254.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:34 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:31 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-131-97.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:51 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-248-96.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:46 paul424: (defun quine () (let ((quine '(defun quine () (let ((quine '\#)) (subst quine (intern "#") quine))))) (subst quine (intern "#") quine))) 13:48:52 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-149-53.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:49:33 kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 13:49:38 just how one can print the character ' in lisp ? 13:49:44 osa1 [~sinan@78.173.126.182] has joined #lisp 13:49:51 (princ "'") 13:50:04 But this is not what you want to do, probably. 13:50:09 paul424: 'x == (quote x). 13:50:20 (list 'quote 'x) => 'X 13:50:37 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-131-97.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:51:42 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-232-210.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:51 paul424: you can produce a textual representation, but lisp sources are sexps. 13:53:18 -!- chenbing` [~user@115.192.210.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:53:22 ok 13:53:30 It's easier to work with sexps, less escaping 13:54:03 -!- kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:54:13 so lisp answer is always in s-expr not textual input, right ? 13:54:15 kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 13:54:31 No. 13:54:42 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-248-96.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:54:44 Lisp program can work we text input and output just like any other program. 13:54:52 But if you can do the same with sexps, it's easier and safer. 13:55:16 Well, it gives you less grants for research about how to avoid sql injection and stuff like that of course. 13:55:28 But if you're not in academia, you should be safe with sexps. 13:56:19 (list 'quote 'x) --> 'X why not ('X ) ? 13:56:45 Because 'X == (quote x) which is the result of (list 'quote 'x). 13:57:02 ('x) == ((quote x)) which is the result of (list (list 'quote 'x)) 13:57:04 (list (list 'quote 'x)) => ('X) 13:57:17 heh 13:57:31 Try: (mapcar 'print (read)) and type 'x RET 13:58:38 -!- kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:58:50 kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:00:46 aha lisp always try to reduce s-expressions like (quote x) 14:01:08 No. 14:01:11 What do you mean? 14:01:45 (make-array 5 :element-char 'character :initial-contents '(#\H #\e #\l #\l #\o)) is reduced to "Hello" ??? 14:02:11 s/-char/-type/ 14:03:09 that's not what I mean , anyway I should list more manual . 14:03:43 -!- kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:03:57 kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:05:47 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-232-210.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:05:50 So what do you think of my quine above? 14:06:01 I meant subst, not substitute, I always confuse them. 14:06:38 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:07 it might be :P 14:07:08 -!- icrazyhack [horieyui@115.173.218.132] has quit [Quit: http://www.cnblogs.com/crazyhack] 14:07:26 paul424: it is. 14:08:08 osa1_ [~sinan@176.237.175.44] has joined #lisp 14:08:08 -!- kenanb` [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:08:13 (equal (quine) (funcall (eval (quine)))) => T 14:08:29 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:08:40 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:08:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-247-154.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:08:58 "and thats why we can't have nice things" 14:09:14 maxm--: that's why we have nice things. 14:09:19 maxm--: or what do you mean? 14:09:48 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.173.126.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 14:09:55 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:02 just being a dick, sorry 14:10:15 ok GG thanks for all 14:10:17 -!- paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-95-40-52-183.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Quit: GG] 14:13:27 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA342FE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:13:42 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 14:16:28 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:10 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:17:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:20 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 14:17:36 ok, here is something weird, fire up a slime repl, (random 10.0) quit lisp, fire up a slime repl, (random 10.0) quit lisp, fire up a slime repl (random 10.0) ... always results in same number 14:17:42 sbcl random number generator seems to be strictly dependent to how many times you called random yet 14:17:50 so the first time you run random will always result in same number 14:18:06 i understand that if i need an advanced random number generator, i need to use a RNG library that does so, but isn't this a little too pseudo random 14:18:19 kenanb: ever heard of pseudo-random and seeds? 14:18:31 kenanb: read clhs make-random-state 14:19:03 pnq [~nick@ACA342FE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:07 also, for a lot of applications it's important to be able to get replicable results. 14:19:18 even with "random" numbers. 14:21:00 pjb: that can easily be achieved by just saving the generated random number sequence 14:22:00 i understand if clhs standard requires the random number implementation to be such, but you can represent this being a feature for people who want to replicate random numbers 14:22:11 s/can/can't 14:25:54 pjb: but thanks for the reference, i am reading now 14:26:14 kenanb: Then you would have to change all your code to be able to optionally pull numbers from a saved sequence rather than use random; that's hardly easier. Having control over the seed let's you replicate any specific psuedo-random sequence. Look for example at games that let the user specify a seed to generate the world. 14:26:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:27:27 kenanb: so just put (make-random-state t) in your rc file. 14:27:52 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:57 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:29:28 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:29:31 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has joined #lisp 14:31:30 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 14:32:17 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-383424.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:33:35 pjb: is it the usual practice to bind a global variable the result of (make-random-state t) and use it as seed to random, i.e (random 10.0 *state-var*) 14:33:41 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:03 btw, i was indeed very wrong about the behaviour, pardon my early assumptions 14:34:04 kenanb: indeed, (setf *random-state* (make-random-state t)) 14:34:17 you put that in your rc file and be happy ;-) 14:35:15 pjb docAvid great, thanks :) 14:36:03 Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 14:36:30 also, little off-topic but... am i the only one who have problems connecting freenode from erc? i have to use webchat.freenode to stay connected 14:36:40 kenanb: no problem here. 14:36:56 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Quit: cya] 14:37:28 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:37:29 i hate this, same problem with xchat. probably related to some local settings. anyway, thanks 14:37:41 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:40:11 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 14:44:48 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:36 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD939.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:45:40 dankna-lap [~dankna@pool-74-105-128-152.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:29 ltaoist [~mo@2001:250:3002:4650:226a:8aff:fe39:64c5] has joined #lisp 14:48:04 -!- dankna-lap [~dankna@pool-74-105-128-152.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:18 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129187010.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 14:48:25 dankna-lap [~dankna@pool-74-105-128-152.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:34 -!- dankna-lap [~dankna@pool-74-105-128-152.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:50:11 -!- ltaoist [~mo@2001:250:3002:4650:226a:8aff:fe39:64c5] has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:54 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 15:01:33 -!- Enorian [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:01:59 humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:33 -!- humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:01 humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:56 kai_ [~kai@e177090002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:05:52 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA342FE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:19 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 15:13:17 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:13:25 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 15:16:02 Frowardly [~PANZERKON@64.134.68.77] has joined #lisp 15:18:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.48.223] has joined #lisp 15:18:14 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.48.223] has quit [Changing host] 15:18:14 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:19:28 -!- Froward [~PANZERKON@64.134.68.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 15:22:20 -!- saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:23:57 CrLF0710 [~user@223.240.94.243] has joined #lisp 15:24:04 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:27:15 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: bye] 15:28:14 Harag [~phil@dsl-244-50-48.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:28:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 15:28:47 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 15:31:20 rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.200.233] has joined #lisp 15:32:05 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:15 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:16 timack [~timack@hlfx59-1-139.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 15:34:01 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:34:39 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-045-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:35:35 -!- maxm-- [~user@openchat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:51 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 15:36:01 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:37:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:39:54 Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has joined #lisp 15:40:50 Kvaks [~kvaks@15.123.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 15:42:44 weird that cmucl detects no errors with run_testsuite() in maxima when there's no unicode support 15:42:57 and wierd that sbcl finds at least 302 errors with unicode 15:43:03 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:43:28 does that mean the errors are unicode specific ? 15:43:29 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:44:12 well, ok sbcl is 64bit here and cmucl is 32 ofc 15:49:55 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:51:56 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.65] has joined #lisp 15:53:23 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:54:08 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:00 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:03 bjonnh` [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 15:57:20 plus4 [~user@dslb-092-076-072-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:35 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:59:08 -!- bjonnh` is now known as bjonnh 16:00:38 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:31 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:01:58 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:01:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 16:03:03 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:10:28 -!- humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:36 fAz4 [~amir@95.38.52.65] has joined #lisp 16:14:01 vervic [~vervic@88.116.134.106] has joined #lisp 16:14:04 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:07 -!- setheus_ [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:14:59 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:40 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:57 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:16:02 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:20 wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has joined #lisp 16:19:43 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.169.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:44 -!- dtw [~dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:21:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.3.148] has joined #lisp 16:21:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.3.148] has quit [Changing host] 16:21:30 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:26:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:27:47 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@80.202.200.233] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:30:06 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:33:39 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 16:34:56 Kron_ [~Kron@216.99.52.150] has joined #lisp 16:37:08 humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:23 maxm- [~user@openchat.com] has joined #lisp 16:40:04 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0F81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:27 francogrex [~user@109.130.29.97] has joined #lisp 16:45:23 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0F81.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:46:36 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:47:22 anyone uses CL for statistical/mathematical computing here? 16:48:21 DSL 16:49:27 francogrex: yes 16:54:38 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@69.199.88.19] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:55:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 16:56:09 v0yager [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:39 -!- Frowardly [~PANZERKON@64.134.68.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:01:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:04:56 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has left #lisp 17:04:57 LiamH: true, you have a statistical library. May I ask if you have anything for kernel density smoothing? 17:05:10 -!- Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:18 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 17:05:48 francogrex: I just have an interface to GSL. You'd have to look in that documentation, but it doesn't ring a bell. 17:05:49 Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has joined #lisp 17:05:50 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has joined #lisp 17:06:42 francogrex: I think there are interfaces to R, I don't know how good they are. Look for repositories by blindglobe. 17:07:20 It's in R as density. I use the interface to R with RCL. I just wanted to have it done in pure CL 17:07:34 -!- fAz4 [~amir@95.38.52.65] has left #lisp 17:07:50 also it doesn't have a "cumulative density smoothing" 17:08:00 there was some chatter in R circles last year about rewriting it in CL 17:08:11 not that it helps your query now. 17:08:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:10:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:14 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:14:56 pnq [~nick@ACA24583.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:15 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:17:34 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B18.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 17:19:22 rewriting R in CL, yes I have read a paper about it some time ago from Ihaka, the creator of R 17:19:48 though the real reason for it eludes me, R is fine as it is now 17:20:19 what does a re-write in CL get R users? 17:20:43 I will look up that paper again 17:22:08 -!- klape [~klape@ip72-202-192-40.fv.ks.cox.net] has quit [Quit: I closed my laptop] 17:22:09 tensorpudding: a more predictable performance envelope. 17:22:57 http://r.789695.n4.nabble.com/Ross-Ihaka-s-reflections-on-Common-Lisp-and-R-td920197.html 17:22:57 What is R written in now, and why is its performance not predictable? 17:23:07 R is mainly in C now 17:23:08 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:23:40 R has both loops and implicit array operations. As it is, it's often much faster to express a problem with the latter, even at the cost of strange code contortions and algorithmic complexity (and space) blowups. 17:23:51 wouldn't it be harder to implement a c/c++/fortran ffi in cl? 17:23:53 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-163-134.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:24:19 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA24583.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:24:21 tensorpudding: all the non-JVM CLs that I know have C (and thus trivially, Fortran) FFI. 17:24:29 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:25:01 sorry, i meant being able to call r objects from c 17:25:02 LiamH: R has a homegrown interpreter for a scheme-like internal language. The scoping and evaluation rules are... "messy". 17:25:18 the other way is probably fine 17:25:47 how many years would this take anyway 17:25:54 pkhuong: interesting. So maybe not rewriting all of R, but rewriting that language would be in order. 17:26:10 Not that I'm volunteering. 17:26:16 from the message of Ross on cll as a reply to ken, it seems they want to do something like maxima 17:26:46 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:55 tensorpudding: a lot of CLs have callbacks as well. Spawning foreign threads and piping lisp-side is also an option. 17:27:10 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 17:27:11 that doesn't sound like you'd get performance though 17:27:25 thin interface over CL. there attempt at writing the original in scheme was a failure, that's why they had directly moved to C 17:27:46 LiamH: well, I believe that some of the impulse comes from wanting to break things wrt scoping/evaluation rules. Unfortunately, that would tend to break libraries. 17:27:49 i don't use R on a significant level 17:28:09 i just don't see where the benefit of rewriting it is compared to the costs 17:28:13 pkhuong: I see. 17:28:14 tensorpudding: you'd be surprised... I also don't see callbacks being used that often in numerical code. 17:28:15 ...The payoff (we hope) will be much greater flexibility and a big boost in performance (we are working with SBCL so we gain from compilation). For some simple calculations we are seeing orders of magnitude increases in performance over R, and quite big gains over Python... 17:28:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:33:04 The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:04 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:33:07 v0yager_ [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:14 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-178-78.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:19 docAvid` [~user@74-94-233-157-Michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:23 splittist2 [~splittist@74-104.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:34:23 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:28 bobbysmith0071 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 17:34:56 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 17:35:00 cow-orke1 [~foobar@pogostick.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:11 if you going to write your own macro system 17:35:17 with very extensive DSL 17:35:23 e__krappi [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 17:35:32 can just as well generate C code and dlopen it 17:35:45 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:35:47 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 17:35:57 but SBCL compile is good too, you'll get around 80% performance of C on float stuff 17:35:58 Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:54 shachaf_ [~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:36:55 _schulte1 [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:55 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:01 Ashii_ [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 17:37:04 cods_ [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:17 quazimod1 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Quit] 17:38:57 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:01 drdo [~drdo@drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 17:39:01 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:04 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:09 gensym [~churib@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 17:39:12 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:39:13 Guest75069 [~root@li129-64.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:13 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 17:39:15 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 17:39:17 cyphase [~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase] has joined #lisp 17:39:18 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:05 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:40:36 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 17:40:49 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:42:11 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:42:13 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-383424.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:10 francogrex [~user@109.130.29.97] has joined #lisp 17:43:36 I was ejected. I lost the conversation 17:43:53 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has joined #lisp 17:44:38 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:42 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:45:20 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:47:29 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 17:47:42 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:50:45 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:51:57 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:59 I would use maxima instead of R, but the thing is packages/libraries are more abundant in R than in anything else, even the commercial stat softwares have problems competing 17:52:56 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.246.45] has joined #lisp 17:53:22 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.246.45] has left #lisp 17:53:59 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:54:18 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has joined #lisp 17:54:48 Implement R in CL over maxima. 17:56:25 that I would leave to Ross Ihaka, he probably is making progress in that area 17:57:52 pnq [~nick@ACA224E5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:00:02 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:36 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has joined #lisp 18:02:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:03:21 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:05:55 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 18:06:12 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:25 rwiker_ [~rwiker@80.202.200.233] has joined #lisp 18:06:26 dnjaramba 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seconds] 18:41:19 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has joined #lisp 18:44:07 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:56 humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:24 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:47:46 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has joined #lisp 18:48:18 _pw_ [~user@123.112.69.199] has joined #lisp 18:49:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 18:51:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.236] has joined #lisp 18:51:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.236] has quit [Changing host] 18:51:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:51:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 18:52:27 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:35 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has joined #lisp 18:52:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:32 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-188956.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:58:24 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:47 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has joined #lisp 19:00:14 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has joined #lisp 19:01:59 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx59-1-139.ns.sympatico.ca] has left #lisp 19:04:56 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:08:40 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:09:32 Do any lisps warn evauluating/compiling function definitions which may require that the order keywords is important for computing defaulted values? 19:09:36 e.g. (funcall #'(lambda (&key (y (+ x 1)) (x 1)) y) :y 8) => 8 19:09:46 whereas (funcall #'(lambda (&key (y (+ x 1)) (x 1)) y)) => error 19:12:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:13:04 bleakgadfly [~bleakgadf@168.81-166-171.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:10 mon_key: that's just using an undefined variable. 19:13:35 NM did not realize that on SBCL M-x slime-compile-defun does warn and annotate the source was using M-x slime-eval-last-expression 19:13:49 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:13:49 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:18:00 pkhuong: yes, an undefined parameter variable. The spec is clear on why I get the error in 3.4.1 Ordinary Lambda Lists: "... Whenever any INIT-FORM is evaluated for 19:18:00 any parameter specifier, that form may refer to any parameter variable to the left of the specifier in which the INIT-FORM appears ..." 19:18:42 jkc [~jcunningh@174-31-72-78.spkn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:53 Any Lispers here who are well-versed in both Scheme and Ruby? 19:19:32 No. 19:19:54 *pjb* wonders what problem may require well-versedness in both Scheme and Ruby from a lisper 19:20:25 pjb: arguing with "william james" FSVO "problem" 19:20:31 perhaps he knows ruby and wants help learning scheme? 19:20:42 *maxm-* recently had first hand expirience on why guile never took off 19:20:44 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 19:20:57 maxm-: isn't guile improving? 19:20:59 maxm-: what were your conclusions? 19:21:01 had to modify my gnucash advanced portfolio report, to fix dividend stuff being displayed incorrectly 19:21:29 after bunch of googling, the workflow is "you edit the report definition" following that you restart gnucash, then you re-run your report 19:21:46 -!- m0prl [~clarkema@31-222-178-169.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:21:49 or you want debug output from your report? grep the sources for undocumented env vars, to enable logging 19:22:20 or you have a syntax error? its no big deal, just fix it restart gnucash, wait 3 minutes for your huuuge file to load, and repat 19:22:23 maxm-: so a compile/recompile thing wrt to teh report definition? 19:22:23 meh 19:22:56 mon_key: basically "its the usability, stupid" 19:23:27 maxm-: prob. still beats using Quickbooks :) 19:23:44 not the language, but more of how the embedding API to it is written. There is no repl, no introspeciton facilities, no nothing. I can just as well write stuff in python 19:24:08 register jkc53 xchat666; jeffrey@jkcunningham.com 19:24:20 *maxm-* went to quickbooks for 2 years, then went back to gnucash 19:24:48 maxm-: did you do any data migration when you switched? 19:25:12 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:25:16 since I now trade a lot, its invaluable, and at least I can write my own OFX importer that does the advanced investing stuff (ie futures, options being asigned or expiring) correctly unlike quickbooks 19:25:53 -!- g00se is now known as syrinx_ 19:26:04 mon_key: not really, just started from scratch with reimport of all teh OFX files which I saved over the years 19:26:08 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@ip68-1-175-223.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:26:08 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 19:27:59 maxm-: well its good to know its possible (: Have you ever used ledger/cl-ledger? 19:28:24 mon_key: no have not tried.. I kind of like gnucash, it actually does the right thing most of the time 19:28:40 -!- jkc [~jcunningh@174-31-72-78.spkn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28:43 ie its auto-guessing of cateogiers is way better then quickbooks 19:29:45 *maxm-* tries not to spend too much time diddling with tools to help me organise stuff, rather keep the eyes on the prize and make do with imperfect tools 19:30:40 -!- _schulte1 [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:06 jkc53 [~jcunningh@174-31-72-78.spkn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:27 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:08 if you interested my ofx importer is at https://github.com/7max/gnucash-ofx-brokerage. Currently supports importing OFX from Ameritrade and interactive brokers, putting all the transactions the right way 19:33:18 Thanks! 19:33:19 ie cap gains, options, futures, dividends, etc 19:35:49 chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has joined #lisp 19:35:49 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@190.39.219.179] has quit [Changing host] 19:35:49 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 19:36:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-50-60.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:23 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0EB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:23 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0EB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 19:39:26 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Client Quit] 19:41:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:42:16 -!- ksergio [~sergio@cnq42-55.cablevision.qc.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:42:51 m0prl [~clarkema@31-222-178-169.static.cloud-ips.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:44:28 kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-185-22.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:44:46 dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 19:44:58 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C236A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 19:46:00 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-44-209.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:46:13 -!- decaf is now known as decaf_wikibak 19:46:21 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:47:02 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:47:20 saste [~saste___@dynamic-adsl-78-15-174-230.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 19:48:38 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-98-39.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:15 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-107-79.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:15 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 19:50:00 pnq [~nick@ACA342FD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:53 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 19:56:39 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:58:37 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:55 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:24 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 20:06:25 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 20:06:35 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:53 -!- decaf_wikibak is now known as decaf 20:07:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:07:35 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:08:35 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 20:10:01 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.92] has joined #lisp 20:11:07 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-63.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:42 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:13:22 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:13:29 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA033E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:13:51 -!- osa1_ [~sinan@176.237.175.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:13:59 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA033E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 20:15:37 osa1 [~sinan@78.175.218.74] has joined #lisp 20:16:17 -!- v0yager_ [~v0yager@173-8-81-129-BusName-tn.chatta.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:48 Can I make a package as easy to install as a quicklisp package without contacting quicklisp? 20:17:13 That is, can I have quicklisp point to, say, some website that I maintain, give instructions that direct ql there? 20:17:37 sbcl.org appears to be down. Is there a mirror of the binaries somewhere? 20:20:36 Nevermind. Found it on sf.net 20:24:44 ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-185-22.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:27:33 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:29:35 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:30:22 When I type out a function, will the documentation (which I think SLIME makes visible) clearly tell me that it's recycling or destructive? 20:31:07 " In general, the recycling functions have names that are the same as their non-destructive counterparts except with a leading N. However, not all do, including several of the more commonly used recycling functions such as NCONC, the recycling version of APPEND, and DELETE, DELETE-IF, DELETE-IF-NOT, and DELETE-DUPLICATES, the recycling versions of the REMOVE family of sequence functions." 20:31:08 Fun 20:32:12 retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:31 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:32:50 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:33:40 Sgeo: use ASDF to make your systems, and you'll be loadable with quicklisp. 20:33:52 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-185-22.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:36:16 -!- plus4 [~user@dslb-092-076-072-136.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 20:40:59 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:42:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-178-150.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:44 What happens if you make a vector adjustable without setting a fill-pointer? 20:45:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:45:49 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:46:06 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-70-14-105.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:48:46 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.149.201] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 20:48:48 -!- easye`` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:48:49 -!- humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:11 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:49:25 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:49:26 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 20:50:05 Sgeo: you get a full vector which can be resized 20:50:57 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-169-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:51:01 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-045-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:53:38 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:46 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 20:58:14 kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:04 Phooodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:04 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:38 Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@89-253-103-132.customers.ownit.se] has joined #lisp 21:01:04 Intensity [tXBVWSXuYm@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 21:05:59 mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:30 -!- mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:06:55 mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:25 -!- mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:08:09 tychoish_ [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:03 flip215 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 21:09:14 lusory_ [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 21:09:25 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:25 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:25 -!- lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:25 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:25 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:35 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA342FD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:09:52 -!- erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:08 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 21:10:27 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:29 erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:05 pnq [~nick@ACA342FD.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:12 can we write a different print-function for hash-table? is hash-table a struct? 21:13:22 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177698446.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:14:30 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 21:16:20 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-188956.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:27 -!- kmcorbett_ [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:19:03 How to read some user input in such a way that slime doesn't leave the repl without a prompt? 21:23:52 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5B0C236A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:30:18 kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has joined #lisp 21:31:18 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.212.104] has joined #lisp 21:34:06 -!- karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:33 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:34:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:34:49 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 21:36:26 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:38:02 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:40:09 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:42:42 holycow [~start@69.172.160.67] has joined #lisp 21:43:17 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:44:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.55.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:45:06 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:45:08 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA342FD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:14 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@46.28.98.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:48:44 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:48:59 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:12 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:49:46 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:50:35 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:51:37 -!- holycow [~start@69.172.160.67] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:52:18 (progn (print prompt) (read)) ? 21:52:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-121.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:40 osa1: I believe you can. Checkout print-object. 21:57:06 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:19 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:58:13 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:59:36 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:59:38 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:02:47 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:03:11 sbryant: thanks, it's just what I wanted 22:03:17 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 22:04:14 except that you can't use print-object for hashtables 22:04:46 :( 22:05:18 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:33 but you can use pprint dispatch 22:05:44 stassats: that's weird. 22:05:54 what is? 22:06:33 That you can't use print-object on it 22:06:48 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/t_hash_t.htm#hash-table 22:06:49 bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:2420:ea0:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has joined #lisp 22:07:18 what did you want to say with this link? 22:07:46 Ah nevermind 22:08:02 It's implementation dependent it seems? 22:08:26 it has nothing to do with print-object and hash-tables, actually 22:08:41 you can't specialize built-in generic-functions on built-in classes 22:09:31 I only get a style warning in SBCL 22:10:23 irrelevant. 22:10:26 Yep, totally let me do it. 22:10:38 gor[e] [~svr@gw2.masterhost.ru] has joined #lisp 22:10:52 pkhuong: ? 22:12:31 sbryant: your program does not conform to the standard. The behaviour of SBCL, or any implementation, is undefined in such circumstances. You might find a game of nethack running in the background. 22:12:40 Ah 22:14:03 What section of the CLHS is this mentioned in? I need to give it a reread it seems 22:14:35 what "this" are you referring to? 22:16:19 Redefining specialized methods on built-in classes 22:16:57 daimrod: 22:17:23 daimrod: was this for me: (progn (print prompt) (read)) ? If so thanks! 22:18:10 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:18:17 I wrote a print function for hash-table to make debugging easier and make READing hash-table's possible, how's this idea? https://gist.github.com/1861099 22:18:52 osa1: it seems I've lead you astray, sorry for that. 22:20:17 urandom__ [~user@p548A3016.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:25 mon_key: yes. 22:20:35 sbryant: why? I thought, since hash-table's are unreadable, my code doesn't break any code 22:20:56 it's working pretty good for me :) 22:21:05 sbryant: in the case of print-object, "Users may write methods for print-object for their own classes if they do not wish to inherit an implementation-dependent method." 22:21:08 also, isn't point of Common Lisp is extensibility? 22:21:29 osa1: when in doubt listen to pkhuong 22:22:09 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #lisp 22:22:48 it is very extensible. But when you start extending things that are built-in, all bets are off. However, you can do weird tricks within a particular implementation that you find will work 22:23:04 osa1: print-object is used in a lot of places, like the debugger. It's also one of the few standard generic functions. There are good reasons to simplify dispatch as much as possible. Moreover, print-object is not meant to be called by the users; write could very well include special cases for many standard or built-in classes (like hash table), before punting to print-object. 22:23:06 osa1: and the CLHS says it's implementation dependant 22:23:18 As in hash-tables are not always unreadable. 22:23:27 According to what I just read 22:23:50 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 22:27:08 ok, thanks everyone for criticism 22:27:23 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.175.218.74] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 22:29:26 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-26-158.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 22:29:49 Farzad [~root@46.225.114.192] has joined #lisp 22:30:26 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:31:02 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:31:07 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:31:28 -!- shachaf_ [~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: !] 22:31:34 shachaf [~shachaf@li227-219.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:36 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-26-158.public.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 22:36:51 sbryant: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw51/CLHS/Body/11_abab.htm see the last item 22:37:23 stassats: thank you 22:37:33 -!- kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-87-79-163-134.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:14 The More You Know 22:41:29 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:46 daimrod: (progn (print "PROMPT") (read)) works ok if i evaluate it from the REPL but doesn't seem to help with CL:RESTART-CASE where a restart accepts an :interactive argument. 22:43:33 brooke [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:52 mon_key: I've tried with SBCL and it works. 22:45:00 er, rather it doesn't do what I want if the expression which triggered the restart was evaluated in some other emacs buffer. 22:47:11 -!- kanru` [~user@154-93.80-90.static-ip.oleane.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:47:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:48:11 mon_key: I don't understand what you mean. 22:48:34 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:43 I am not going to get into that argumnt being a webserver noob 22:49:22 but I would want something that allows me to get in at different levels depending on what I do 22:50:05 like my use of misultin, all I wanted was basic setting up of websockets and handling the boiler plate handling of the messages 22:50:42 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:50:43 I didn't need anything more complex, and within those limits it was very easy and straightforward to use 22:51:33 it's my erlang chat_demo example 22:51:36 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 22:52:03 rvirding: what are you on about? 22:52:32 sorry wrong channel, mea culpa 22:52:50 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:54:26 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 23:03:02 daimrod: I have a bogus expression which lands me in a restart-case where one of the clauses interactively prompts for a new value. When i evaluate the bogus expression from an Emacs buffer with the buffer name "not a repl buffer" the restart interactively prompts for a new value from the buffer named "*slime-repl sbcl*". Prior to evaluating the bogus expression point was at the end of the prompt, e.g. MY-PKG>! <--point-is-at-! However, 23:03:02 after the restart-case returns there is no longer a prompt in the buffer name "*slime-repl sbcl*". In order to get the MY-PKG> prompt to reappear I have to switch over to that buffer and evaluate something (usually I type the return key). 23:05:20 mon_key: ah, so you would like to have prompt started by emacs? I don't know how to do that. 23:06:03 mon_key: but if you figure out how to do it I would be glad to know how :) 23:06:31 daimrod: its minor slime annoyance but it drives me crazy none-the-less 23:07:48 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 23:08:39 -!- ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has quit [Quit: I shouldn't really be here - dircproxy 1.0.5] 23:09:00 -!- Farzad [~root@46.225.114.192] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:16 ArmyOfBruce [~bmitchene@waywardmonkeys.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:57 -!- segfault_ [segfault@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-xkdhlmsbjjxizpbn] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:11:06 pnq [~nick@AC81A1E3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:14 hmm I wonder if the server SWANK could send a query to the SLIME process. 23:15:16 -!- dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:35 i always figured it had to something to do with swank-backend::slime-output-stream doing funny stuff with *standard-output*/*standard-input* 23:15:40 kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:44 -!- sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 23:16:00 daimrod: it can 23:16:45 Farzad [~user@46.225.114.192] has joined #lisp 23:17:02 stassats: nice, do you have some hints? or an example? :) 23:17:36 (setq slime-enable-evaluate-in-emacs t) in emacs 23:17:40 (swank:eval-in-emacs '(read-from-minibuffer "Prompt: ")) 23:18:52 woaa great 23:18:57 sloanr [~user@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:54 stassats: thank you! 23:21:12 dronf [~user@host-46-186-32-201.dynamic.mm.pl] has joined #lisp 23:24:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:01 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:17 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 23:32:41 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 23:34:34 stassats: what is the security risk of slime-enable-evaluate-in-emacs 23:35:24 being able to evaluate in emacs from swank 23:39:33 letting swank evaluate from emacs is a security risk, too. :) 23:39:42 (slime-eval '(swank:eval-in-emacs '(read-from-minibuffer "Prompt: "))) hell yeah! 23:40:17 hefner: to swank 23:40:33 -!- kai_ [~kai@e177090002.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:34 daimrod: watch out, in case your CL evolves sentience and decides to overthrow humanity and blame it on emacs. 23:43:12 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:33 -!- ddp [~ddp@cpe-75-85-147-17.hawaii.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:50 ddp [~ddp@anon-184-35.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 23:54:55 -!- Jabberwockey [~jgrabarsk@89-253-103-132.customers.ownit.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:50 lebro [~monx@ool-18bc4a28.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:24 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 23:57:10 -!- Farzad [~user@46.225.114.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:57:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:52 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:20 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:58:52 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-171-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:59:13 can i tell format to repeat a certain string (or character) n times?