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[~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:23 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:32 pnq [~nick@ACA20A7E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:03:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:03:26 fe[nl]ix: same issue with the first test case on HEAD. does it help to know that recvfrom returns EWOULDBLOCK on the socket even though the input buffer claims to have data available? 01:03:50 limetree: well, if drakma is wrong, it needs to be corrected. 01:04:05 limetree: seems like it is a pretty trivial change 01:04:42 message is "resource temporarily unavailable" 01:05:22 limetree: i'd move the if into the setf clause (i.e. (setf end (if ...))) 01:06:22 limetree: are you sure about the bytes=? 01:07:05 http://www.w3.org/Protocols/rfc2616/rfc2616-sec14.html#sec14.35 01:07:38 limetree: very good, so drakma deserves fixing, too. 01:08:24 yep. i'm fixing the tests too! they weren't quite correct: they looked for '*' in the response, not taking into account it's a regex 01:08:42 limetree: bugs bugs bugs, thanks! :) 01:08:58 limetree: it seems that nobody every actually used that feature. 01:09:04 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:09:12 no, it didn't work at all 01:09:45 -!- Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-32-166.public.utexas.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:09:54 browsers are fond of it when fetching media files 01:09:56 limetree: except when running the test :) 01:10:06 yeah :) 01:10:19 limetree: i've pushed a fix for drakma so that it sends bytes= 01:10:50 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:13:26 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-147-27.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:14:31 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-147-27.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:36 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-32-166.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 01:15:00 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-147-27.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:15:01 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba4421.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:19:11 -!- Ansik [~user@117.33.120.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:21 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-147-27.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:20:17 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 01:20:24 -!- vonn^2 [vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [] 01:22:36 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:23:15 vonn [vonn@cpe-74-77-10-75.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:36 ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 01:25:08 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:25:10 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:11 H4ns: i sent a pull request 01:25:54 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 01:26:36 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:26:44 limetree: pulled, thanks! 01:27:41 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-147-27.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:28:13 limetree: do you want to be credited in the CHANGELOG entry? if so, with what name? 01:31:21 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:33:28 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:33:40 whh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has joined #lisp 01:35:16 kanru [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:31 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:34 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.175.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:50 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:55:54 realitygrill 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nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:02:52 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:05:15 joekarma [~joekarma@S01060026f3e2a647.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:08:07 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has joined #lisp 06:08:56 pnq [~nick@ACA22713.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 06:09:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:09:47 kushal [~kdas@116.202.209.144] has joined #lisp 06:09:47 -!- kushal [~kdas@116.202.209.144] has quit [Changing host] 06:09:47 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:12:15 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:16:02 Xach: wildcards for l1sp.org would be nice, e.g., l1sp.org/*/define-easy-handler, or even l1sp.org/define-easy-handler. Maybe you could use [cl -> pcl -> mop -> implementations -> t] as a precedence order? 06:19:07 slightly less easy to implement but still fairly trivial would be fuzzy matching a la slime 06:22:26 -!- DataLink_ [cb1b90a7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.27.144.167] has left #lisp 06:28:25 -!- Karmaon [~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:38 Karmaon [~john@gateway/tor-sasl/karmaon] has joined #lisp 06:32:08 just thought I'd throw that idea to the wind. better head to bed now--thanks for the great resources! 06:32:12 -!- joekarma [~joekarma@S01060026f3e2a647.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 06:35:59 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:38:34 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 06:40:07 gko [~gko@110-27-98-167.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 06:43:55 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit 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[~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-43.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:32 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.188] has joined #lisp 07:14:58 whh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has joined #lisp 07:17:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:22:54 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22713.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:23:02 lol 07:23:08 the land of lisp song is so dorky 07:23:29 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 07:30:32 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:31:02 good morning 07:31:09 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:31:55 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:01 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.199.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:33:09 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:34:30 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:34:37 hi 07:36:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 07:38:34 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:39 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:41:06 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:53 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( 07:42:47 )))))))))))))))) ((((( ) () () ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( )))))))))))))))) 07:43:05 ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ( ) ((((((((((((((((((( ))))))))))) (((((((((((( 07:43:24 ))))))))))) )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 07:43:59 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 07:44:36 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:45:42 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:26 SailorReality: you're unbalanced 07:46:37 flip214: I'm writing lisp 07:46:57 Oh, you are? sorry, didn't recognice it. 07:47:29 doesn't look like it 07:47:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-8.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:36 so, your python looks like whitespace, right? 07:47:48 lol 07:48:08 Libster [6c12814b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.18.129.75] has joined #lisp 07:51:11 wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has joined #lisp 07:53:40 -!- wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:26 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.188] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:56:19 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:59:41 SailorReality: which one? 07:59:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:56 http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f166/chainsaw-beheading-88482/ 08:01:04 (((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((gay))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) can sum1 fix my lisp code? 08:01:05 no, I meant your "lol" ... Land of Lisp or Let over Lambda? 08:01:24 Libster: Lol lisp is so easy 08:01:30 look im writing lisp 08:01:32 yea and gay 08:01:32 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( 08:01:33 ... we have no ops 08:01:34 )))))))))))))))))) 08:01:39 i have seve autism 08:01:40 (((((((((((((((( 08:01:42 )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) 08:02:03 (((im-a-stupid-gay-faggot)) ) 08:02:42 SailorReality: and I have homicidal urges and knowledge how to execute them in horrible ways. Please stop before I'll have to complain about wasting perfectly good ingredients on some middle schooler like you. 08:03:01 ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((lol)) 08:03:09 can u match my parantheses/??? 08:03:10 can u match my parantheses/??? 08:03:10 can u match my parantheses/??? 08:03:11 can u match my parantheses/??? 08:03:11 can u match my parantheses/??? 08:03:11 can u match my parantheses/??? 08:03:11 can u match my parantheses/??? 08:03:39 p_l: http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/f166/chainsaw-beheading-88482/ like that? 08:03:59 how many partheses do i have 08:04:00 ((((((((((()))))))))))))))) 08:04:01 Athanasius [icxcnika@freenode/weird-exception/network-troll/afterdeath] has joined #lisp 08:04:01 hurrrrrrrrr 08:04:12 whoops I think I mismwatched on on the right 08:04:14 better correct it 08:04:16 (((((((((((())))))))))))) 08:04:22 whoops i did it again 08:04:26 ((((((((())))))))))) 08:04:50 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:05:23 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.167.243] has joined #lisp 08:05:33 ehu: do you have op rights? 08:05:42 ehu p_l is spamming 08:05:49 can you please ban him? 08:07:12 benonsoftware [~benny@ubuntu/member/benonsoftware] has joined #lisp 08:07:16 ... testament to my lack of sleep - I forgot about /ignore 08:07:29 http://pastebin.com/1ih2S1x8 08:07:33 logs of his spamming 08:08:27 Ben64 [~Ben64@cpe-76-175-218-76.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:10:11 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has joined #lisp 08:12:22 brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has joined #lisp 08:12:33 -!- brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has left #lisp 08:12:55 -!- benonsoftware [~benny@ubuntu/member/benonsoftware] has left #lisp 08:14:14 Thorne [~Thorne@unaffiliated/thorneo] has joined #lisp 08:14:35 -!- Thorne [~Thorne@unaffiliated/thorneo] has left #lisp 08:14:46 Thorne [~Thorne@unaffiliated/thorneo] has joined #lisp 08:14:48 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:14:49 slabua [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 08:14:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:14:50 -!- slabua is now known as [SLB] 08:15:23 PhilT [~philt@unaffiliated/philt] has joined #lisp 08:15:59 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 08:16:02 -!- Thorne [~Thorne@unaffiliated/thorneo] has left #lisp 08:16:23 Corey [~Corey@freenode/staff/corey] has joined #lisp 08:16:53 Thorne [~Thorne@unaffiliated/thorneo] has joined #lisp 08:17:08 peterhil_ [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 08:18:50 -!- Thorne [~Thorne@unaffiliated/thorneo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:19:10 Thorne [~Thorne@unaffiliated/thorneo] has joined #lisp 08:22:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:22:11 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:22:17 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 08:22:53 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-jmvnnlhausjubnmu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:23:22 -!- Libster [6c12814b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.18.129.75] has quit [] 08:23:36 -!- peterhil_ [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Quit: Byes!] 08:23:48 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-72-83-26-98.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 08:26:20 flip214: What's up? 08:28:02 There should be an oauth interface for distributing IRC ops. 08:28:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-128.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: later] 08:28:37 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 08:28:44 How's cl-oauth? Is OAuth 2.0 necessary to work with contemporary providers (GOOG, MSFT, etc?) 08:28:55 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:29:13 easye``: afaik 2.0 is necessary with some 08:29:29 however, last time I checked 2.0 had worse security than 1.x 08:29:50 hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 08:29:50 Anyone looking for deep security of oauth is missing the point. 08:29:50 -!- hkBst [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 08:29:50 hkBst [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 08:29:55 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:30:03 Mornin' Blkt. 08:30:05 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:30:31 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:33 easye``: I meant security of the crypto primitives 08:30:49 it was easier to circumvent it 08:30:55 But I agree, what little "security" exists in authentication should be done as correctly as possible. 08:31:27 Through brute force? 08:31:32 easye``: from what I understood, 1.0 was quite good with security when implemented properly, but was harder to implement 08:31:39 no, not through brute force 08:31:56 Man in the middle? That's how I'd attack oauth. 08:32:07 The whole distributed x509.v3 bit is a mess. 08:32:10 easye``: I think that's what was the possible vuln. of 2.0 08:32:29 whereas 1.0 in the more complex variant made it harder 08:33:03 *easye``* should read up on this. 08:33:14 p_l: thanks for the thoughts. 08:33:15 yeah, me too 08:33:36 though I have it easy, I'll just drop in ready-made JS and Ruby/Java libs for OAuth 08:34:12 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:39:30 -!- Guest18057 is now known as mk___ 08:41:38 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:42:06 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:44:26 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.52] has joined #lisp 08:48:03 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:49:52 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:51:34 -!- Tcepsa [~user@pool-108-15-89-215.bltmmd.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:56 -!- rgc` [~user@99.Red-83-43-155.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:52:34 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:54:30 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 08:55:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:55:55 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:14 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:15 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:56:16 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 08:56:32 -!- Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:56 Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has joined #lisp 08:59:31 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:02:24 kwmiebach [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-107-87.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:04:40 -!- Ben64 [~Ben64@cpe-76-175-218-76.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 09:07:26 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 09:11:20 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:15:06 sunmix` [~user@223.207.41.111] has joined #lisp 09:15:16 -!- sunmix [~user@223.207.41.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:15:35 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 09:16:19 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 09:17:43 -!- sunmix` [~user@223.207.41.111] has left #lisp 09:17:52 i just had a weird random thought. it would be awesome if there was a programming language (or maybe more accurately, some kind of compiler/interpreter) that used syntax from all sorts of other languages 09:18:33 more like a royal mess 09:18:45 it could have some kind of syntax to switch rules as needed, and minor changes to allow for the most compatibility 09:18:53 oh sure, absolutely 09:19:05 it was just a thought :P 09:19:17 cyphase: look at perl6, it has that 09:19:24 Emacs org-mode babel 09:21:45 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:23:46 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-izkwxnybbmtiusgr] has joined #lisp 09:24:24 -!- aib [kvirc@unaffiliated/aib42] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:26:24 how is that not a bad idea? 09:26:27 -!- Illiux [~nol@dhcp-lp-130-49-25-68.oakland.resnet.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 09:26:51 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:27:05 tomodo, who said it's not a bad idea :) 09:29:38 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:22 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tgwulbiczawuhhoa] has joined #lisp 09:30:54 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:31:00 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:32:06 hkarlen [~user@ip-85-197-171-11.c4stads.bikab.com] has joined #lisp 09:33:20 -!- Thorne 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karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:41:31 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:51 hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has joined #lisp 10:41:51 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@79.170.210.172] has quit [Changing host] 10:41:51 hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has joined #lisp 10:44:08 -!- whh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has quit [Quit: ] 10:44:43 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:08 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:48:35 -!- kilon_away is now known as kilon 10:49:50 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:52:08 I have a big project that I have been restructuring (moving source around in files) now I have ended up with the situation where I have to reload on file after quickloading the project to get the code to run 10:52:59 there are no error during the quickload, any suggestions on how to trace this problem? 10:53:34 "one file" not "on file" 10:54:35 Harag: some botched ASDF dep? 10:56:22 p_l: dependencies on other libraries or "sequence of loading" in my own asd? 10:56:23 ccorn_ [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 10:56:31 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:56:39 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:56:48 sequence loading, I suspect 10:57:03 something related to compile/load time 10:58:36 darn, ok I will recheck i already did a "who calls" on every function in that file to check sequence but maybe there is an apply using it some where that I missed 10:58:36 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8B4F.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:58:52 p_l: thanx 10:59:43 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 11:01:52 benny [~benny@i577A8195.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:04:16 mcox [~user@124-148-41-140.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:05:05 Is there a way for a macro to know what declarations are in effect from within a macro? 11:05:11 whoops 11:07:23 I know I can write my own macro to communicate it using special variables, but I was wondering if there was some function in the specification I could call. 11:09:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:11:11 -!- SailorReality [~IceChat7@74.198.150.49] has quit [Quit: Do fish get thirsty?] 11:13:07 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 11:15:20 -!- gko [~gko@110-27-98-167.adsl.fetnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:16:55 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:20:04 -!- mcox [~user@124-148-41-140.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 11:22:18 how can I do perl style grouping with all-matches-as-strings in ppcre? 11:23:07 -!- austinh [~austin@c-24-21-49-222.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:25:25 or any other method? I tried (all-matches-as-strings "a string(.*)another string") 11:25:53 and wanted to return the value in (.*) 11:26:28 msmith2: and what's the problem? 11:27:34 I'm not getting back the value but "a string another string" instead. 11:27:38 (cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings "\\w+" "foo bar baz") ("foo" "bar" "baz") 11:28:42 flip214 but I'm just trying to get what's in between "foo" and "baz" 11:28:44 jdz [~jdz@host76-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:29:06 ah, yes, right ... I see what you mean. you get the whole regex match, not the () part 11:30:21 I can do it with register-group-bind but I don't want to have a static number of variables to bind the matches to 11:31:01 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-gqvvwrvqzhuvzdbf] has joined #lisp 11:32:23 you want scan-to-strings in a loop ... 11:32:32 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:33:04 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tgwulbiczawuhhoa] has left #lisp 11:33:05 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082B4EC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:20 or, how about setting "a string" and "another string" as zero-width matches? then they shouldn't be included in the matched result 11:34:11 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:14 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:35:09 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p50829151.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:35:52 hmmm, doesn't seem to work, either 11:35:59 compj [~compj@p54BF57DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:02 flip214: thanks I run with the scan-to-strings suggestion. although it seems overly complicated. I guess it's time for a macro 11:36:52 flip214: you tried to loop over it with scan-to-strings? 11:36:53 well, if you'd provide an iterator for scan-to-strings it would certainly be welcome ... please put it in an issue on github 11:37:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:12 will do thanks 11:38:07 msmith2: no, didn't try. but I'd do "^(.*a string)(.*)(another string)" :sharedp T and use the length of the matches in the next :start argument ... 11:38:38 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 11:39:32 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 11:39:50 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-150-8.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:44:14 -!- kanru [~user@118-163-10-190.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:45:23 hkarlen [~user@ip-85-197-171-11.c4stads.bikab.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:00 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users70.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:52:34 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:07 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:27 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 12:01:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:01:35 Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has joined #lisp 12:06:11 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:21 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:11:18 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:02 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:16:52 paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-95-41-102-117.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has joined #lisp 12:17:26 -!- hkarlen [~user@ip-85-197-171-11.c4stads.bikab.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:22:08 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:23:35 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.52] has joined #lisp 12:24:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:38 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-037.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:26:35 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp 12:28:10 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:44 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 12:35:07 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:38:00 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 12:38:33 pnq [~nick@ACA35731.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:38:37 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:07 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.89.253] has joined #lisp 12:46:52 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:53 ok I have 2 lists l1 , l2 and want get (l1,l2) . What is the easiest way to do without macros ? (cons l1 (cons l2 ())) ? 12:47:56 I'd use do-register-groups 12:48:02 er 12:48:08 msmith2: I'd use do-register-groups 12:48:25 paul424: I'd use (list l1 l2) 12:48:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:48:43 paul424: and commas are confusing in lisp 12:48:46 paul424: if both are lists, you'll need append. if you just want a combined thing to pass around, you can use (cons l1 l2) 12:48:47 dlowe: list is aha syntatic sugar .... but not macro ..... 12:49:00 ahh sorry for those commas 12:49:06 paul424: list is a function 12:49:15 it's part of the spec. use it. 12:49:39 what is "(l1,l2)"? 12:49:55 I meant ( l1 l2 ) 12:50:13 it doesn't look like valid lisp 12:50:37 `(l1,l2) is :D 12:50:56 let's say your thing is 'f' then what should the result of (f '(a b c) '(x y)) be? 12:54:33 yeap `(l1 l2) 12:55:05 Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:08 dlowe: with do-register-groups have to have a set number of variables to bind the substring to correct? 12:55:09 Ok does anyone is bored enough to help me inspect my slime / emacs installation with my and check why its so terribly slowly responding ? 12:55:37 typing is tough ... although I have dual core CPU 12:55:45 -!- ccorn_ [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn_] 12:55:50 -!- naryl1 is now known as naryl 12:56:05 I need to be able to bind to a variable number of variables 12:56:36 why don't you just use a single variable that holds a list? 12:57:15 if it's part of a macro you can just use let as normal 12:57:19 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:57:30 seems after each compilation failure it gets slower 12:58:00 like some called binary component didn't stop ... debuger or something . 12:58:08 tomodo: so it would be like (do-register-groups (mylist)) ? 12:58:12 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:30 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA35731.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:59:02 oh sorry I misunderstood what you were doing 12:59:15 BuffaloBuffalo [~BuffaloBu@158-147-137-189.harris.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:44 I get a few buffers starting with sldb_ccl 12:59:50 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:52 how do I shutdown such debbuger ? 13:00:58 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:01:30 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:03:09 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #lisp 13:04:36 anonchik [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 13:05:54 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:06:32 pnq [~nick@AC8277AF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:02 silenius [~silenius@i59F71564.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:42 lakkris [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:52 -!- anonchik [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 13:09:56 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:10:07 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 13:10:13 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:10:46 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 13:11:14 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8277AF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:12:15 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:12:38 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:13:37 how do I check parens ? 13:14:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:14:13 M-x paren-check or M-x check-parens.... 13:14:13 -!- splittist [~splittist@74-104.198-178.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: splittist] 13:14:17 on emacs... 13:14:47 it reports them as buffer char position afaik..... 13:15:03 so you use M-x goto-char to go to that position 13:15:38 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:15:39 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:24 pnq [~nick@ACA40BD8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:09 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:26 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 13:18:54 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:20:35 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 13:23:52 paul424: I told you to read slime manual. It's explained there how you "shutdown a debugger"! 13:24:09 http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/ 13:24:10 -!- Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has left #lisp 13:24:31 ok ok 13:25:22 msmith2: you could use progv to bind a variable number of special variables. 13:25:30 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:25:36 msmith2: I see. You want to solve the general case. 13:26:45 pjb: ah 'q' I read that yesterday but already forgot :D 13:27:14 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:28:31 -!- lispyone [~lispyone@24.144.25.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:29:10 lispyone [~lispyone@24.144.25.50] has joined #lisp 13:29:44 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120129021758]] 13:29:52 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:30:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:30:54 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 13:31:26 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 13:31:40 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 13:32:47 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 13:33:24 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 13:34:10 anonchik [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 13:34:14 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:31 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:22 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 13:35:47 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 13:36:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:32 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 13:42:16 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-385343.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 13:42:29 hello 13:43:04 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:44:17 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:45:28 /who loke 13:45:51 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:46:01 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 13:46:28 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:35 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:46:47 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 13:48:15 ura [~ura@unaffiliated/ura] has joined #lisp 13:48:42 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 13:48:50 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 13:49:05 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-110-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:45 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 13:49:48 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:50:04 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:07 hi 13:51:31 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 13:51:35 is it possible to use &rest and &key in lambda form together? 13:52:04 it doesn't work for me: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127741 13:52:32 probably I'm passing parameters in a wrong way 13:52:43 ura: it's possible. 13:53:10 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:53:34 ura: the keyword arguments must still stick to the keyword key/value pattern. 13:53:37 (flet ((x (a &rest b &key c) (list :b b :c c))) (x 1 :c 2 :c 3 :c 4 :c 5 :c 6)) --> (:b (:c 2 :c 3 :c 4 :c 5 :c 6) :c 2) 13:53:43 ura: they are also collected into the rest variable 13:54:05 (flet ((x (a &rest b &key c d e) (list :b b :c c :d d :e e))) (x 1 :c 2 :d 3 :e 4)) --> (:b (:c 2 :d 3 :e 4) :c 2 :d 3 :e 4) 13:55:36 -!- alek_b_ [~alek_b@99-10-120-63.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:55:36 pjb, Xach thank you very much for clarification, now it's clear when I'm wrong 13:55:46 s/when/where/ 13:56:41 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 13:56:47 ura: &allow-other-keys can be helpful in that context 13:57:01 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:57:17 Xach, but it still require even number of arguments? 13:57:25 Yes, 13:57:46 And normally, the even numbered ones must be symbols. 13:59:01 What would be a lambda list to allow calling like (x :key 'val 1 2 3 4 5 6 7)? 13:59:25 (&rest args) 13:59:54 And check manually if first pair in list is :key and value? 14:00:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:00:19 Yes 14:00:29 zfx [~zfx@109.174.157.242] has joined #lisp 14:00:29 -!- zfx [~zfx@109.174.157.242] has quit [Changing host] 14:00:29 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 14:00:32 You can always do your own parsing of a &rest parameter. 14:00:55 Perlstyle :) 14:01:54 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:02:11 ok, thanks! It's a pity that automatic key unpacking is not possible with the &rest (or to be more precise it possible but it works not in a way I expected) 14:02:43 -!- jdz [~jdz@host76-24-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:04:19 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:05:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.34.167.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:06:24 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:08:40 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 14:10:44 LW accepts this: (flet ((x (a &rest b &key c &allow-other-keys) b)) (x 1 :c 2 :d 3 4 5 'some 'others)) 14:10:47 don't suppose anyone here knows where clozure cl puts its init file in windows? 14:10:58 while it barfs on (destructuring-bind (a &rest b &key c &allow-other-keys) '(1 :c 2 :d 3 4 5 'some 'others) b) 14:11:39 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:12:45 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 14:14:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:14:27 tensorpudding: i know 14:14:46 can you tell me? 14:15:03 tensorpudding: ccl-init.lisp relative to (user-homedir-pathname) 14:15:16 oh ... I'd guessed at "yes" being the answer 14:15:32 okay, so i have it right 14:15:44 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:16:42 (defparameter *string* "ABCD1234") what is a *most straightforward way* to insert a character in that string without reconsitituting using concatenations... is it possible? 14:17:08 -!- anonchik [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 14:17:15 francogrex: use an adjustable string with a fill pointer. 14:17:17 francogrex: it's not possible because this is a literal string => immutable. 14:17:26 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 14:17:42 (defparameter *string* (make-array 8 :adjustable t :fill-pointer 8 :initial-contents "ABCD1234")) 14:18:08 (defparameter *string* (make-array 8 :element-type 'character :adjustable t :fill-pointer 8 :initial-contents "ABCD1234")) 14:19:35 ugh, i forgot that cl doesn't use native paths, can't remember how to create them 14:19:43 i just want to load a file 14:19:59 tensorpudding: (make-pathname :name "ccl-init" :type "lisp" :defaults (user-homedir-pathname)) 14:20:22 tensorpudding: (load "C:\\SOME\\DIR\\FILE.LSP") should work too. 14:20:32 oh, you have to escape them, right 14:20:34 and then use vector-push? 14:20:44 francogrex: not to insert in the middle. 14:20:55 francogrex: adjust-array, replace and (setf aref). 14:20:59 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:21:07 ok 14:21:41 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 14:22:53 francogrex: adjust-array is O(n) unless you use a geometric serie of size (in which case it's amortized O(1)). 14:23:01 replace is O(n). 14:23:26 francogrex: so insert in the middle of an adjustable string is costly. Better use concatenate. 14:23:56 francogrex, pjb: but see http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-rope/ 14:24:14 Sure, if you do that a lot on big strings, ropes are better. 14:24:35 francogrex: actually, better use make-array and 2 replace. 14:27:43 -!- tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:30:14 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:30:49 clozure sure is crashy 14:30:58 tensorpudding: what circumstances 14:31:01 ? 14:31:16 trying to load things in quicklisp 14:37:04 but replace in itself, just replaces , it doesn't insert 14:37:14 tensorpudding: is there something in particular that's causing the crash? 14:37:29 francogrex: yes, you have to activate your brains, and start programming. 14:37:42 suppose I want the *string* to become "ABCDZ1234" 14:37:59 I see no other way that subseq and coincatenate 14:38:46 i don't know, exactly 14:39:50 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:40:01 Greetings lispers 14:40:31 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:48 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 14:42:46 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Client Quit] 14:42:55 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 14:43:04 eh, i think i licked it now 14:43:14 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.133.45] has joined #lisp 14:43:55 oh darn, windows doesn't have libssl 14:44:01 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.31] has joined #lisp 14:44:11 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-183-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:02 ASau [~user@95-24-183-229.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 14:45:26 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 14:45:26 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o p_l 14:45:37 -!- ChanServ has set mode -o p_l 14:45:57 gah which openssl do i want... 14:46:23 francogrex: http://paste.lisp.org/+2QKE 14:46:27 why can't the openssl people make their own windows build 14:46:43 Perhaps they don't have the monies to buy a MS-Windows system 14:46:51 It costs more than $300 ! 14:47:29 why can't people who still use windows switch to something more palatable? 14:47:57 sykopomp: well I don't use MS-Windows. I use a flight simulator that requires MS-Windows. 14:48:02 my main system is linux, but i want to set up a dev environment in windows 14:48:11 it's not that easy 14:48:12 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:48:17 sykopomp: similarly, I don't use perl or python. But I have to install them as dependencies for sfotware not written in Common Lisp. 14:48:45 especially if, like me, you're lazy and you don't want to compile everything 14:49:20 oh god, why does it want vc++ 2008 14:49:28 Windows is a dependency for many fine pieces of software 14:49:42 i have vc++ 2010 you evil people 14:49:51 tensorpudding: somebody reported that he successfully used WINE to compile programs with sbcl for MS-Windows. 14:49:58 hm. I guess when I had to deal with ssl on windows, I just used the build included with allegro. 14:50:01 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 14:50:27 pjb, i don't see how that helps, you still need to install a lot of stuff 14:50:43 tensorpudding: you don't have to buy a separate box. 14:50:43 well, openssl can be built with mingw 14:50:48 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:52 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 14:50:52 MS-Windows sounds like a divorced woman from '60s Manhattan 14:50:54 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-385343.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:59 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:51:03 And IIRC, with WINE, you don't have to buy a MS-Windows system. 14:51:04 tensorpudding: quick question... are you trying to use hunchentoot? 14:51:11 yes 14:51:14 and do you *actually* care about openssl for the particular application? 14:51:30 not at this time 14:52:07 <[6502]> Hi. ... is there a way to remove the effect of (define-symbol-macro ...) ? 14:52:19 (push :hunchentoot-no-ssl *features*) before compiling hunchentoot then. 14:52:20 (define-symbol-macro x x) 14:52:25 and you can postpone the ssl headache. 14:52:29 where do i do that 14:52:46 tensorpudding: in your lisp terminal before quickloading anything. 14:52:52 <[6502]> pjb: wouldn't that expand the second "x" with current value of the macro? 14:53:04 That seems to work. 14:53:06 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:06 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:14 (unintern 'x) would work too. 14:54:00 i tried to end the compile, but it kept on going even though cl-ssl didn't build 14:54:16 Can the App Store version of CCL be used from Emacs+Slime? 14:54:32 AFAIK, yes. 14:54:35 app store version? 14:54:53 don't know why it wouldn't 14:55:10 emacs wants a path to the binary 14:55:23 if you know what that is, you should be able to use it 14:56:00 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 14:56:09 tensorpudding: restart your lisp, push that, and then (ql:quickload 'hunchentoot) 14:56:20 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:56:36 *Xach* has long pondered a hunchentoot-sans-ssl system that does nothing but push that symbol 14:56:36 sigjuice: argh, well, no, it looks like running the executable in a cli just gives you a debugger when you interrupt it, not a REPL. 14:56:58 sigjuice: if you load swank you could still connect slime to it, but you would have the GUI anyways it seems. 14:56:58 it seems to load fine, i guess 14:57:33 You would probably have to generate your own image from it, you should as well use the normal distribution 14:57:37 tensorpudding: pushing that skips all compiling/loading of the openssl stuff, if that wasn't obvious. 14:59:11 pjb: Thanks. I will try swank. I was hoping for a way to suppress the GUI but couldn't find one. 14:59:39 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA40BD8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:01:01 <[6502]> pjb: (define-symbol-macro x x) and then evaluating x behaves strangely in SBCL 15:01:19 right. I wasn't conforming. (unintern 'x) should do. 15:03:09 sykopomp, thanks for the tip 15:03:21 tensorpudding: happy hacking 15:04:45 antgreen [~user@70.50.65.120] has joined #lisp 15:05:41 mornin 15:08:58 while playing around in the REPL, I end up creating all kinds of junk symbols, functions and variables. Is there a way to get a clean slate without restarting my lisp? 15:09:18 sigjuice: maybe. restarting is generally far easier. 15:09:38 I change to a new package in such cases 15:09:39 sigjuice: delete the package and create a new one. 15:09:58 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:10:24 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 15:10:35 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:39 which package? COMMON-LISP-USER? 15:11:32 -!- sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.112] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:41 sigjuice: mkupack creates a new package using CL and set *package* to it. 15:15:16 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:36 -!- kanru_ is now known as kanru 15:17:23 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-126-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:48 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-179-77.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:19:29 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has joined #lisp 15:20:54 snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:21:04 sigjuice, probably MAKE-PACKAGE, IN-PACKAGE, USE-PACKAGE and DELETE-PACKAGE are your friends: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_packag.htm 15:21:18 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:21:24 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:27:48 sloanr [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 15:27:56 -!- easye`` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:28:14 easye`` [~user@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 15:29:28 Thanks for the advice Xach, pjb, dtw. For now, I will just restart as needed. 15:30:30 Morning folks. 15:32:31 sigjuice, here's a testing session: (make-package :test :use :cl) (in-package :test) [test test test] (in-package :cl-user) (delete-package :test) 15:33:05 hi gigamonkey 15:35:13 maden [~maden@poste189-167.wl.t.ulaval.ca] has joined #lisp 15:35:13 -!- maden [~maden@poste189-167.wl.t.ulaval.ca] has quit [Changing host] 15:35:13 maden [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has joined #lisp 15:38:17 dtw: Looks straightforward enough. I will try it out. Thanks! 15:38:57 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:38:57 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 15:42:30 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:32 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 15:42:55 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:43:22 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:43:52 <[6502]> is it guaranteed that (defun x()) (fboundp 'x) --> T (unintern 'x) (fboundp 'x) --> NIL ? 15:44:49 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.31] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 15:45:01 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:47:04 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:47:27 [6502]: yes, they're different symbols. 15:47:34 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has joined #lisp 15:48:28 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:48:47 It's always annoyed me a little that a symbol gets interned when you are checking if it is bound, or using describe, etc. 15:48:52 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:49:30 In the LispWorks IDE, symbols sometimes get interned simply from trying to use tab-complete, which is really annoying. 15:49:57 ThomasH: FIND-SYMBOL? 15:50:03 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:10 (that tab complete thing does sound annoying) 15:50:46 <[6502]> ThomasH: it's interned even before that... at read time (before understanding you're asking for describe 15:51:11 sykopomp: I think it mainly happens if I inadvertently choose a partial completion. 15:51:56 well, that's understandable, no? :) 15:52:09 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 11.0/20120201153158]] 15:57:48 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:58:11 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:58:11 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 15:58:26 -!- Lycurgus [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:56 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:23 <[6502]> is it a bad idea to use (define-symbol-macro ...) to implement (defconstant ...) ? 16:02:30 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02:33 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:02:36 [6502]: probably 16:02:44 [6502]: what is it you want to do? 16:03:12 sykopomp: I don't follow. That sounds like bad design. 16:03:40 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:50 <[6502]> loke: I wanted to implement defconstant, with value substitution at compile time 16:04:04 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:04:07 [6502]: defconstant already does that 16:04:26 (or rather, can. It's up to the implementation but I'd wager most do at higher optimisation levels) 16:04:29 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-2-148-141.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:39 pkhuong: I mean if you do a partial completion at the repl and actually submit it, or you write the partial completion into the file and compile it. 16:04:45 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:04:48 <[6502]> loke: I don't have a defconstant yet... so i thought about (defmacro defconstant (name value) `(define-symbol-macro ,x ,(eval value))) 16:04:52 (if he means it gets interned as soon as the completion happens... that's another story) 16:05:18 sykopomp: "trying to use tab-complete" is pretty clear to me. 16:05:26 <[6502]> loke: however symbol macros are somewhat weird... i.e. (define-symbol-macro x 12) (setf (symbol-value 'x) 33) 16:05:28 [6502]: but why? 16:05:39 <[6502]> loke: why what? 16:05:40 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:41 I guess I misunderstood :( 16:05:44 COnstants are unchangeable 16:06:00 -!- srcerer_ is now known as srcerer 16:06:01 And they are definitely inlined on SBCL 16:06:09 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:06:26 [6502]: I'm trying to figure out why defconstant isn't good enough for you? 16:06:54 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 16:06:55 <[6502]> loke: whoops... sorry. I'm talking about my lisp-to-js compiler... and it doesn't have defconstant yet. But I have define-symbol-macro... 16:07:10 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-126-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:07:22 [6502]: are you aiming for something like clojurescript, then? Compiling *actual* CL? 16:07:36 [6502]: defconstant can safely be an alias to defparameter (or even defvar) without any compatibility issues 16:08:16 <[6502]> loke: in programs i'm using defvar... but compiled code however of course contains var lookup that I'd like to remove 16:09:11 6502: are you saying that you ere able to implement symbol macros, but stumped on defconstant? 16:09:13 <[6502]> sykopomp: I'm not aiming at full CL ... but it's a lisp-2 closer to CL than to scheme 16:09:57 rachekhan [~keller-sh@188.19.240.205] has joined #lisp 16:10:18 <[6502]> loke: no... i simply didn't implement defconstant and I wondered if I could avoid adding another separate lookup table for constants 16:10:51 [6502]: no need. just use whatever mechanism you use for defvar, but add a flag to specify that the value is constant 16:10:57 <[6502]> loke: but indeed now I've already a lookup table for constants (e.g. "null" or "undefined"), i can indeed add to that table 16:11:01 [6502]: that was you can inline it if the flag is true 16:11:11 <[6502]> hmmm 16:11:23 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:11:58 <[6502]> loke: this would allow lexical constants... a nice idea indeed 16:12:03 A constant is a normal binding to a symbol, not really different from any other globally bound variable, at least in the eyes of the specv 16:14:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:14:07 *[6502]* 's brain sometimes gets certain words stuck for short periods (e.g. "indeed"). Should he go for a neurologist? 16:14:21 Indeed 16:14:31 <[6502]> :-D 16:15:01 [6502]: just find the right spot for http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trepanning 16:15:14 yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.72.60] has joined #lisp 16:16:05 <[6502]> may be is just another symptom of the common maniac-depressive syndrome of lispers 16:16:52 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:22 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:17:41 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:17:54 pjb: thanks for the function: nstring-insert-char I understand how it works 16:18:10 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 16:18:13 flip214: He probably is more likely to need http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lobotomy 16:18:29 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Client Quit] 16:18:55 In sbcl, I use delaim optimize debug 3 but when I step into a function, it shows me only evaluations of parts of it and not every function call within! 16:18:59 loke: not much difference ... just the size of the drill and the depth 16:20:02 rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has joined #lisp 16:20:24 Why would it selectively chose some parts of the code to let me step into? for example (declaim (optimize (debug 3))) (step ( nstring-insert-char "testfunc" 3 #\V)) skips over a lot 16:21:57 francogrex, I find SBCL's STEP useless too (and often the whole debugger!). Probably the fact that it's compiled code makes functions' interncal structure "invisible". 16:22:38 [6502]: you can implement defconstant as: (defmacro defconstant (var val &optional docstring) `(progn (setf (getf 'constant ',var) t) (defvar ,var ,val ,@(when docstring (list docstring))))) 16:22:42 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-89.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:22:58 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 16:23:06 [6502]: then your compiler can check (getf 'constant var) and generate the value inline if it wants. 16:23:19 (perhaps you want a (eval-when ) instead of progn. 16:23:29 time to sleep 16:23:30 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:09 francogrex: you may try clisp. clisp step is nice. 16:24:17 francogrex: just don't compile the code. 16:24:29 dtw: you might want to try in code that's optimised for debug. 16:24:50 ah, well I can set up sbcl to interpret mode, maybe this can help (I am loyal to sbcl) 16:24:53 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.133.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:25:36 francogrex: no 16:25:54 francogrex: sbcl's interpreter is not for increased debuggability but increased performance. 16:26:19 :-) 16:26:46 Xach: it switches to the interpreter when there's lambda-heavy code? 16:27:31 sloanr` [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has joined #lisp 16:27:34 No, lambdas are compiled normally. It's for eval. 16:28:05 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.8] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:10 setmeaway2 [oosool3@183.106.96.8] has joined #lisp 16:28:10 -!- sav_ [~lsd@peirce.xored.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:28:20 sykopomp: no, the user does. The original motivation was that SB-ALIEN uses EVAL a lot at runtime, when types haven't been sufficiently statically propagated. 16:28:45 -!- rachekhan [~keller-sh@188.19.240.205] has left #lisp 16:29:40 sav [~lsd@peirce.xored.org] has joined #lisp 16:29:49 then I'll give clisp I try, I have it anyway 16:31:05 -!- sloanr [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:31:34 francogrex: http://paste.lisp.org/+2QKN 16:32:57 nice 16:33:41 dgiaimo [dgiaimo@nat/google/x-tbwxcmjfkihqvhdt] has joined #lisp 16:33:44 I'll try and compare 16:33:47 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:38:37 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0.1/20120208060813]] 16:38:43 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 16:40:15 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:40:39 I tried the same in clisp and there it goes into every form. Big difference 16:41:18 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:42:45 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:43:35 I have learned how to debug without stepping in SBCL, but I wish it worked nicely just to have it. 16:45:04 -!- Enoria [~Enoria@jte.kidradd.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:16 in theory, can't there be a portable library to debug, independent of the implementation? 16:45:30 Of course. 16:45:32 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 16:45:44 francogrex: start implementing it. 16:48:05 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 16:48:58 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.52] has joined #lisp 16:49:07 -!- hkBst_ [~marijn@gentoo/developer/hkbst] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:49:21 I suppose I am bound to give it a try 16:50:21 PacoAir [~PacoAir@139.Red-80-36-122.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:45 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:50:56 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:17 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:59:27 mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:21 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 17:03:16 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:34 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:04:18 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:06:08 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-179-77.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:07:01 -!- Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:08:41 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F71564.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:54 silenius [~silenius@i59F71564.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:10:42 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:13:37 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:07 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:14:15 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:14:39 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:15:10 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 17:15:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:15:37 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:16:03 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:37 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:16:42 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.72.60] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 17:16:48 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:24 homie [~levgue@78.35.148.186] has joined #lisp 17:19:42 austinh [~austin@c-24-21-49-222.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:59 why : (lambda (ll ) (appendd (car ll) (cdr ll) ) '( ( 1 2 3 4 ) ( 5 6 7))) does not print the proper result ? 17:20:21 Perhaps because APPENDD is not a defined function in common lisp. 17:20:21 what is appendd? 17:20:34 -!- drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:20:46 paul424: what do you think is the result of (cdr '((1) (2)))? 17:21:22 (2) ? 17:21:29 err 17:21:34 ((2)) 17:21:35 :D 17:21:45 Xach: now you answer my question :D 17:22:13 paul424: The REPL+TIAS is a beautiful thing. 17:22:34 paul424: compare to the result of (cdr '((1) . (2)))? 17:22:46 but note too how ((1) . (2)) prints 17:23:01 paul424: 1- your function doesn't contain any printing expression. 17:23:10 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:23:11 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:23:11 -!- quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:23:11 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:23:23 (lambda (ll ) (appendd (car ll) (cdr ll) ) '( ( 1 2 3 4 ) ( 5 6 7)))# that's what do I get. 17:23:27 2- assuming that appendd is defined, your function always return ((1 2 3 4) ( 5 6 7)). 17:23:36 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:23:40 paul424: Yes. 17:23:41 quazimodo [~quazimodo@c122-106-158-42.carlnfd1.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 17:23:45 lol 17:23:46 Try (funcall *) 17:23:49 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:23:55 try DEFUN 17:23:59 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-179-77.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:24:01 ahh I really wanted funcall ... 17:24:02 and proper spacing/indentation. 17:24:09 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:29 sykopomp: it's folded to one liner to match 1 channel line :) 17:24:39 paul424: it's wrong. 17:25:07 paul424: use paste.lisp.org instead 17:25:08 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-89.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:25:15 http://paste.lisp.org/new 17:25:19 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:27 *paul424* will now use http://paste.lisp.org/new 17:27:12 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:02 pjb: ohh I get what I get wrong .... I misspeled the abstraction and mixed it with application part :D 17:28:14 yep. 17:28:17 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:31 The "abstraction" is spelled append, not append. 17:28:54 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:57 And the application is written ((lambda (ll) (append (car ll) (cdr ll))) '((1 2 3 4) (5 6 7))) --> (1 2 3 4 (5 6 7)) 17:29:09 not appendd. 17:29:13 I cannot type bugs.. 17:29:27 I am really sorry for the mess I make in here :D 17:29:33 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-89.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:29:41 I'm sorry for the mess you create in your programs! 17:29:51 that poor compiler 17:30:03 yeah already combated that bug. yeah that poor compiler ... 17:30:11 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 17:30:18 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:37 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30:52 yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.76.78] has joined #lisp 17:31:28 ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has joined #lisp 17:31:59 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 17:33:46 pnq [~nick@ACA2072D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:35:23 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:44 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:38:39 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:24 m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.52] has joined #lisp 17:40:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-037.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:40:32 Intensity [5OGDduUVyc@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 17:42:01 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 17:43:02 In case I rewrite the existing functions , ought I overwrite the names ? like append -> append or just appendd, huh anyway the compiler protest. 17:43:14 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:32 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 17:43:33 umpfh...... 17:43:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 17:44:11 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:38 Froward [~PANZERKON@75-146-1-110-Delmarva.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:44:53 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:45:00 paul424: one option is to use some consistent prefix or suffix 17:45:14 PuffTheMagic_ [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 17:45:14 -!- PuffTheMagic_ [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Client Quit] 17:47:08 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-179-77.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:13 -!- snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:48:27 snorble_ [~snorble@c193-14-18-68.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 17:52:42 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:55:12 aib [kvirc@unaffiliated/aib42] has joined #lisp 17:56:08 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:57:39 Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 ok. Is there a simple way of curry / uncurry a function in lisp ? is this a proper way ? : (defun mcurry (ff) ( lambda ( xx ) ( lambda ( yy) (ff xx yy) ) ) ) ? 18:00:46 paul0: load alexandria, use alexandria:curry 18:00:51 er, paul424 18:01:25 dlowe: that's not currying. 18:01:27 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-179-77.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 18:01:35 paul424: you said you would use paste.lisp.org :( 18:01:51 #'alexandria:curry is partial application. 18:02:22 paul424: aren't you having enough problems applying functions as-is? 18:02:52 sorry my memory like a sive : http://paste.lisp.org/display/127753 18:03:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:03:19 sykopomp: I have , so I want to avoid that by use of high order functions :) 18:03:26 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has joined #lisp 18:04:16 guys, I've noticed something about the lisp "culture" 18:04:27 it's a bit like the perl culture in that it's self absorbed and a bit pretentious 18:04:29 what ? 18:04:32 paul424: perhaps an introductory text to common lisp would be of some use for now. 18:04:43 but even worse in that it sounds like a desperate tenager 18:04:49 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 18:04:52 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*PANZERKON@*.hfc.comcastbusiness.net 18:04:55 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 18:04:55 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.76.78] has quit [Quit: bye!] 18:05:49 gongoresque ? 18:05:50 Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-136-131.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 18:05:51 lol 18:06:20 you twit, what do you base your claims on ? 18:06:26 on the language ? or it's users ? 18:06:32 homie: If you'd like to keep up your conversation, do it privately. 18:06:48 Xach: thanks noticed, and piss off ....! 18:07:33 anybody asked you to chaperone me or what ? 18:07:37 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F71564.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:53 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #lisp 18:09:44 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-gqvvwrvqzhuvzdbf] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:11:42 leoncamel [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:12:40 -!- paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-95-41-102-117.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/2012012900]] 18:13:39 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:17:49 -!- homie [~levgue@78.35.148.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:57 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:34 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 18:20:48 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:21:16 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:21:45 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:21:47 H4ns: it looks like the recent drakma release relies on an unreleased feature of usocket 18:22:21 H4ns: there should be a usocket release sometime soon, though 18:24:02 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:40 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:28:07 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:14 -!- dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:30:50 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 18:33:18 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:21 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:35 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 18:34:15 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-69-91-136-131.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:34:42 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 18:38:29 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:25 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:40:03 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:41:20 sykopomp: I'm aware of that 18:41:52 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:42:00 homie: those who cannot command themselves must be commanded 18:43:31 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:45:14 Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:47:00 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:01 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2072D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:49:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:51:03 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 18:51:31 shit, i don't get it! 18:51:46 didn't even open the door! 18:51:48 lol 18:51:51 jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has joined #lisp 18:52:18 i think someone terrorized him! 18:52:20 lol 18:53:55 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:53:56 WIBN if there were an interface from CL pathnames with :version key to/from git commits... 18:54:34 Esp. seeing as git seems to be the goto DVC for most lispers. 18:54:55 Just a few short years ago it seemed to be darcs. 18:55:19 Xach: yeah. 18:55:38 *ThomasH* googles Darcs to see if there is any recent activity. 18:55:40 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:55:50 google darcshub :) 18:57:40 mon_key` just learned about darcden 18:58:07 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:58:51 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:59:38 drakma's :range parameter for making requests takes a list of two integers, but it should really allow only one integer as well. what is more lispy, to allow :range to be an integer, or to handle the case where the list has only 1 item? 19:00:57 -!- mon_key` [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:01:16 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 19:01:36 i would say to handle lists of 1 or 2 elements, since it is conceptually a range - it's just that you can omit the end 19:01:46 limetree: seems like you could have :range-min and :range-max 19:02:10 limetree: invent a syntax for range designators 19:02:12 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:02:31 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.76.105] has joined #lisp 19:02:39 sounds similar to bounding index designators to me 19:03:08 pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.114] has joined #lisp 19:03:23 are :start and :end already taken in http-request? Hm. 19:04:06 I wouldn't use :start and :end, since it's a request field that's being specified, not indexes of a sequence 19:04:27 Xach: what about using the string syntax: "a-b", "a-" - and i just realized - "-b" 19:04:47 that's what it actually looks like in the header 19:04:57 limetree: no 19:05:01 that is the worst 19:05:27 why? 19:05:37 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128244201.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 19:05:45 -!- Froward [~PANZERKON@75-146-1-110-Delmarva.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 19:05:54 Because it requires serializing to and from a string. 19:06:26 right. some validation is made. 19:06:38 I think it would be good to have the end be designated by NIL, and further a single integer designating the list ( NIL) 19:07:09 so :range 42 is :range (list 42 nil) and :range (list 42 500) is just what it looks like 19:07:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:57 :range-start and :range-end is also fine 19:08:29 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:08:39 I like :range-start and :range-end because it doesn't imply that you can specify more than two integers 19:08:48 yeah i think i like that. both start and end can be nil. 19:08:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:00 but not at the same time 19:09:06 Why not? 19:09:18 That to me would designate the entire content, e.g. no range restriction at all. 19:09:30 it's not valid syntax 19:09:41 You're not talking about syntax, though. 19:09:58 limetree: don't try to get a range if both :range-start and :range-end are nil. 19:10:00 You're talking about the values acceptable as particular keyword arguments and what they semantically mean. 19:10:26 Xach: right. so i could translate that to "0-". 19:10:36 limetree: Or simply to no range header in the request at all. 19:10:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:05 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:05 probably better, since otherwise, if the default value is nil, it would always make range requests 19:12:34 Is it more useful for :range 42 to be :range (list 42 nil) or to be :range (list nil 42)? 19:12:58 docAvid: there's a bit of a parallel with subseq 19:13:22 (subseq foo 42) extracts elements 42 through to the end 19:17:03 docAvid: Also look at REPLACE, REMOVE, DELETE, etc. that have separate :start and :end keywords. 19:17:19 one reason for keeping it a list (:range) is that it wouldn't change the interface, but :range-start and :range-end seems nicer to me 19:17:20 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:17:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-020.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:18:27 limetree: no need to change the api, you can keep :range and add :range-foo easily enough 19:18:45 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:18:53 that's true 19:18:56 I just now noticed the preceding part of the conversation. 19:19:16 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:22:33 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:24:57 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-029.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:26:38 The spec says of CL:GET that it is not advised to use numbers as an indicator b/c of the eq/eql issues. Are there implementations which for which CL:EQ of integer does not return true? 19:27:00 maxm--- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:02 mon_key: yes. 19:27:05 mon_key: bignums 19:27:06 -!- maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:09 especially if it's a big integer 19:27:11 ok 19:27:25 thanks. makes sense 19:28:54 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 19:29:09 -!- ura [~ura@unaffiliated/ura] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:29:15 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:30:19 *sykopomp* wonders if there's any implementations where it *does* return true for (eq (1+ most-positive-fixnum) (1+ most-positive-fixnum)) 19:30:25 (would that even be allowed?) 19:30:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-029.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:30:57 why wouldn't it be? 19:31:34 I'm not sure if bignums are required to be distinct if they're created by two non-literal expressions. 19:32:37 If the spec doesn't place restrictions on the uniqueness of bignum identity then it should be allowed right? 19:32:57 I'm wondering if it does. 19:34:20 I would guess the restriction would prob. be on integers if it existed. 19:35:25 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:18 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.76.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:20 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:48 maybe section 3.2.4.2.2 "Definition of Similarity" is relevant. 19:39:48 19:40:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:42:17 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:12 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.85.121] has joined #lisp 19:43:31 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-410392.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:43:37 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-10-204.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:45:53 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.65.120] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:46:33 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-128.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:48:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:48:57 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.89.253] has quit [Quit: paul0] 19:49:59 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:02 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-81-20.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:51:41 sykopomp: The glossary entry for "constant form" might also be applicable. 19:52:04 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:05 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:52:32 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 19:54:34 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:55:04 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:56:29 vantage|2 [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has joined #lisp 19:56:29 -!- vantage|2 [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:34 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-114-22.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:47 also this: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Issues/iss158_w.htm 20:02:10 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 20:03:01 -!- pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.114] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:03:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:03:35 -!- Patterngazer_ [~Patternga@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: He who laughs last, thinks slowest] 20:04:44 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-161-58.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:33 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:07:34 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-197.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:41 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 20:08:14 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.173.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:10:51 -!- compj [~compj@p54BF57DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: compj] 20:10:53 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:40 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-249-30.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:16 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:13:56 pjb: Is your Objective-CL on gitorious or anything? 20:15:00 hi, what is most up to date and most comprehensive slime guide? e.g. I learned in recent months to copy from inspector to repl, or c-u c-c c-c to compile a function in debug mode.... I wonder how many goodies there are that I don't know of 20:15:31 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-233-159.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:01 is there something like slime wiki for example? 20:16:14 -!- cataska_ [~cataska@114-24-48-182.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:16:44 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-207-83.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:08 -!- ictxiangxin [~ictxiangx@220.168.197.55] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 20:17:14 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-233-14.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:17 puchacz: probably describe-mode and http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/ are about the extent of what you are going to get 20:17:39 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.235] has joined #lisp 20:18:26 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:33 there are also various screen casts of hackers using slime which tend to be chock full of tidbits, but tedious to go through for command references 20:18:46 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:08 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-58.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:19:11 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 20:19:30 thx 20:19:34 -!- anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:20:44 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-124.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:37 puchacz: http://common-lisp.net/project/slime/doc/html/Compilation.html#Compilation for the specific flags you mentioned 20:21:51 -!- m7w [~chatzilla@31.24.92.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:22:53 ok, it has it, so likely to have more 20:22:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:23:16 chr` [~user@ti0061a380-dhcp1500.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:23:34 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-27-207-83.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:23:41 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 20:24:57 anonus [anonymous@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:2cc7] has joined #lisp 20:25:03 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:26:05 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.188] has joined #lisp 20:28:44 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-161-58.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:56 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.85.121] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:29:14 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.85.121] has joined #lisp 20:29:34 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:30:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-41-124.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:30:40 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: damn..] 20:30:41 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 20:30:54 ,eep 20:31:26 francogrex [~user@109.130.6.47] has joined #lisp 20:31:33 ,lück sengü 20:31:38 lol 20:32:19 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.85.121] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:35 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.85.121] has joined #lisp 20:32:50 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-45.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:10 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 20:34:11 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 20:34:11 *francogrex* enjoying xlisp-stat http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XLispStat 20:34:22 too bad it was shadowed by R 20:34:51 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-27-204-45.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:02 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-161-58.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:35:08 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-229-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:13 francogrex: isn't maxima good enough? 20:35:14 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 20:35:32 just a conjecture, not using it 20:36:25 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.85.121] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:28 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:36:40 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.85.121] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 sure it's very good, maxima, it's more than just a stat software, it's a CAS. This is just another nice one, it's old though, not well maintained 20:37:52 puchacz: another place that contains good slime info http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/ 20:39:21 bobbysmith007: txh, taking a note 20:39:32 francogrex: do you use maxima? 20:39:36 francogrex: port it to common lisp! 20:39:39 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:55 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:41:44 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:21 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.85.121] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:42:29 Have you guys ever seen sb-profile report 0 bytes consed with non-zero number of calls, after it just reported a non-zero number of bytes consed on the previous report? 20:42:31 puchacz: I use it sometimes yes 20:42:38 does anyone know where to find dsl-in-lisp.mov 20:42:42 ? 20:42:47 jmckitrick: sure 20:43:01 most links are dead as it is old (by web standards) 20:43:04 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:43:19 lispyone: look in the logs from friday there is a youtube link 20:43:26 sweet 20:43:27 thanks 20:43:31 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FlHq_iiDW0 20:43:32 Xach: Is there a simple workaround for that? Or is it a known issue? 20:43:37 jmckitrick: what's to work around? 20:43:45 jmckitrick: it's certainly possible that no bytes were consed. 20:44:07 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.86.71] has joined #lisp 20:44:14 francogrex: to what extend? do you program with it? 20:44:41 sipo: thanks 20:44:47 xach: thanks 20:44:50 no problem. 20:45:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:27 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:46:30 puchacz: I only used it on a few occasions when I needed to analytically integrate... I also used mathematica, but I prefer maxima for the obvious reasons 20:47:08 Xach: I can't believe SBCL is *that* efficent, that it can avoid consing on subsequent calls to mapcar? 20:47:17 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:47:20 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 20:47:45 jmckitrick: I believe sb-sprof's granularity doesn't work like that. pkhuong or jsnell might know more. 20:48:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:57 I'm actually using the deterministic one, sb-profile 20:49:20 oh, sorry, i missed that. but they might work the same way. 20:49:28 wrt memory, anyway 20:50:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:33 good point 20:54:54 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: mad flavor in your ear] 20:55:15 same issue with allocation granularity. 20:57:15 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 20:57:18 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:38 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:59:05 caili [~caili@188-193-36-228-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:53 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.148.239] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:03:31 zfx [~zfx@host109-156-16-183.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:03:31 -!- zfx [~zfx@host109-156-16-183.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:03:31 zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has joined #lisp 21:04:11 *Xach* makes dsl-in-lisp.mov on youtube public 21:04:17 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-110-178.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:04:37 drwho [~drwho@216-122-174-206.gci.net] has joined #lisp 21:04:52 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:51 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:37 Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-202-154.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:08:01 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:08:46 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:09:02 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-80-229-183.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:09:29 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:08 elatedpixel [~elatedpix@cpe-174-097-005-182.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:45 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-42-116.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:59 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.199.168] has joined #lisp 21:14:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:14:51 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:52 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.86.71] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:15:43 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.86.71] has joined #lisp 21:16:56 sellout: it's at http://git.informatimago.com/srv/git/public/objcl 21:17:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:39 pjb: Thanks. 21:17:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:01 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 21:18:06 sellout: sorry, it's git clone http://git.informatimago.com/public/objcl 21:18:16 lupo20 [porco@dynamic-adsl-94-38-95-214.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 21:18:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:29 ciao 21:18:31 !list 21:18:38 lupo20: type /leave 21:18:44 -!- lupo20 [porco@dynamic-adsl-94-38-95-214.clienti.tiscali.it] has left #lisp 21:20:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:20:02 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:20:11 -!- maden [~maden@unaffiliated/maden] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:15 sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.194] has joined #lisp 21:25:58 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.86.71] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 21:26:54 -!- caili [~caili@188-193-36-228-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 21:29:34 cmoore [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:34 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-42-116.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:42 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-108-81-168-225.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:55 brooke [~brooke@c-71-63-19-18.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:37 [6502] [5e24de7c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.222.124] has joined #lisp 21:36:10 ysph [~user@mobile-166-147-126-139.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:30 <[6502]> Hello. Are mutable constant used often? I mean something like (defconstant +FOO+ (cons 1 2)) (setf (car +FOO+) 99) 21:38:51 *sykopomp* doesn't use defconstant at all... 21:39:52 <[6502]> constants look strange indeed. For example they cannot be lexically rebound 21:40:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:40:28 *[6502]* starts thinking this "indeed" thing is getting serious. Indeed. 21:40:43 [6502]: I'm not a language lawyer, I think the value of a constant always has to be EQL to the value given in the DEFCONSTANT  IE, (SETF CAR) is not a good thing to do to it. 21:40:47 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 21:40:50 -!- sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:43:02 I tend to use DEFVAR/DEFPARAMETER with +FOO+ to indicate that the value shouldn't be changed, since some compilers don't like when you bind a list, etc. to a constant. 21:43:19 <[6502]> sellout: I cannot understand CLHS clearly on this point. It talks about "different value" but I thought that for example when considering cons cells it means identity. 21:43:39 and some compilers are more obnoxious than others when it comes to redefining constants (which is not unacceptable during interactive dev) 21:43:41 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.6.47] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:12 <[6502]> sellout: oh... this is interesting. I thought that supporting list constants was mandatory... 21:45:05 <[6502]> sellout: the problem with using defvar is that the value cannot be inlined 21:45:22 [6502]: I haven't used DEFCONSTANT in a while, but I think the error was like when you load the fasl and the new list (with identical contents) wasn't eql to the original list. 21:46:00 [6502]: Has your profiling shown you that this constant is a bottleneck for your program? 21:46:22 -!- cmoore [~hydo@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: cmoore] 21:46:44 <[6502]> sellout: I'm trying to find a good way to implement defconstant in a compiler 21:47:12 there's only one, really 21:47:17 if you're not strictly implementing CL, why bother? 21:47:28 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:33 defconstant is not something many people will sorely miss. 21:47:46 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-89.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:48:38 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:48:43 <[6502]> Right now I'm using #.*FOO* in code... may I should just keep doing that 21:49:36 <[6502]> may=may be 21:49:58 why do you need to do that? 21:50:13 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:14 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:50:14 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 21:50:45 <[6502]> stassats: why writing a compiler you mean? 21:51:04 [6502]: He wouldn't ask that  we _all_ write compilers. 21:51:14 so, are you writing a compiler or writing code? i'm confused 21:52:16 because i don't really understand how #.foo relates to writing a compiler 21:52:20 <[6502]> stassats: I'm writing a compiler (that by the way is code) and I often digress into writing programs that I compile with the compiler. In one of these programs I've a lot of integer constants and I liked the idea of inlining the values 21:53:06 defconstant is fine for integer constants which aren't supposed to be changed 21:53:22 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-045.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:53:23 -!- lakkris [kvirc@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:25 <[6502]> stassats: the compiler has no support for defconstant/inlining so in the program now i'm using #.*FOO* instead, and now I wanted to add constants 21:53:26 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:51 adding constants should be trivial 21:54:38 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 21:54:51 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 21:54:55 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:55:03 <[6502]> stassats: unfortunately not if constants are also mutable objects. Actually it's impossible because the code must temporary become a string to be compiled into javascript. So i wondered if mutable constants are indeed supported by CL. 21:55:54 defconstant is not about the value being unchanged, it's about a variable always referring to the same value 21:56:31 Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 21:57:40 sepuku [~sepuku@83.212.47.194] has joined #lisp 21:57:41 <[6502]> stassats: yes. this is the problem. I've to go through a string representation, so I cannot inline mutable objects that compare EQ. Not in javascript that is... 21:57:43 DataLinkDroid [~David@120.155.202.140] has joined #lisp 21:58:16 <[6502]> stassats: but apparently CL also has problems with constants not being EQ 21:58:39 you mean EQL, but it has no such problems 21:59:19 you can have constants which aren't comparable using EQL, but you rarely would want them 21:59:48 that's why defconstant is defined to compare them by EQL 21:59:54 <[6502]> stassats: EQL is not problem. The problem is EQ... Reading CLHS it's not clear to me that constants are only EQL... the term "same value" is ambiguous. 22:00:06 <[6502]> stassats: where is that written? 22:00:18 what written? 22:00:38 <[6502]> stassats: where it's stated that constants only compare EQL? 22:01:08 "same value" is totally unambiguous, CLHS on defconstant clearly states that it uses EQL 22:02:13 [6502]: it _does_ make sense to have the clhs handy when implementing common lisp 22:02:24 <[6502]> stassats: hmmm... same adj. 1. (of objects under a specified predicate) indistinguishable by that predicate. 22:02:24 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:02:27 [6502]: the good news is: it is available on line for free 22:02:51 [6502]: and the specified predicate is EQL 22:03:21 "The consequences are undefined if there are any bindings of the variable named by name at the time defconstant is executed or if the value is not eql to the value of initial-value.", no? 22:03:39 Bike: that's the right part 22:03:52 pretty clear, i'd say 22:03:58 <[6502]> stassats: No... it says that consequences are undefined if you rebind to a non-EQL. 22:04:10 <[6502]> is this the same? my english sucks... 22:05:04 [6502]: it says that if defconstant is used twice with the value not being eql to the previous one, your compiler may do whatever it likes to do. 22:05:05 <[6502]> so (defconstant +FOO+ (cons 1 2)) (setf (car +FOO+ 99)) (print +FOO+) is not guaranteed to print (99 . 2) ? 22:05:05 it means if there's already a constant named X and you do (defconstant X B), (eql X B) should return T 22:05:37 <[6502]> (setf (car +FOO+) 99) 22:05:46 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:10 it doesn't mean that at all 22:06:12 [6502]: what that means is that the correct thing for your compiler to do in that situation involves nasal demons. 22:06:43 it means (defconstant +FOO+ (cons 1 2)) (setf (car +FOO+ 99)) (defconstant +FOO+ (cons 1 2)) (print +FOO+) is not guaranteed to do anything meaningful 22:06:45 <[6502]> sykopomp: the situation of my example of the situation of rebinding or repeating a defconstant? 22:07:31 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:07:32 [6502]: try (eql (cons 1 2) (cons 1 2)) 22:08:09 <[6502]> stassats: i don't read that in CLHS... i'm not touching the constant but a sub-object of the object 22:08:28 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:50 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:55 if you put (defconstant +FOO+ (cons 1 2)) into a file, it can be evaluated more than once 22:08:58 [6502]: consider a file having (defconstant +foo+ (cons 1 2)) in it. consider what happens if you load it twice? 22:09:29 [6502]: as the behavior is not specified, you are worrying about something that... is not specified. 22:09:43 <[6502]> ahhhhhh 22:09:49 <[6502]> here we go! 22:10:04 <[6502]> Therefore, users must ensure that the initial-value can be evaluated at compile time (regardless of whether or not references to name appear in the file) and that it always evaluates to the same value. 22:10:55 [6502]: you are probably using terminology that would make a language lawyer disagree, but yes. 22:11:00 <[6502]> except of course that once again "same" is not clear 22:11:06 H4ns: that's a quote from CLHS 22:11:14 [6502]: it's eql 22:11:18 stassats: eek 22:11:33 stassats: i'm glad that i've used "propably" 22:11:43 probably 22:12:34 H4ns: but i agree, it's more of an explanation, this sentence isn't really needed there 22:12:59 <[6502]> ok ... i think that the intention is indeed clear, and mutable constants are a problem 22:13:10 <[6502]> thanks for your patience guys :-) 22:13:12 H4ns: because it follows from "An implementation may choose to evaluate the value-form at compile time, load time, or both." and "The consequences are undefined if there are any bindings of the variable named by name at the time defconstant is executed or if the value is not eql to the value of initial-value." 22:13:34 and that sentence is just to make it more easy to understand 22:13:35 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:13:40 [6502]: in the spec, unqualified "same" means eql. See the glossary entry for "same". 22:14:06 rme: but in defconstant EQL is qualified 22:14:23 I don't disagree, stassats. 22:14:24 <[6502]> rme: thanks... i found it now "Since eq is used only rarely in this specification, eql is the default predicate when none is mentioned explicitly." 22:19:33 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has joined #lisp 22:21:40 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.199.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:23:06 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 22:24:54 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-85-27-110-224.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 22:27:14 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.31] has joined #lisp 22:27:44 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:28:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.106.180] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:34:11 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:34:16 -!- Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:35:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:36:14 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 22:36:18 <[6502]> is dropping the whole symbol the only way to remove a global symbol-macro? 22:38:41 -!- Arrdem [~reid@resnet-46-120.dorm.utexas.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:41:14 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:42:01 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-179-77.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:11 retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:12 ngz [~user@121.95.74.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:24 -!- sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:31 sawjig [~sawjig@gateway/tor-sasl/sawjig] has joined #lisp 22:46:55 -!- BuffaloBuffalo [~BuffaloBu@158-147-137-189.harris.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:46:57 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:17 -!- sloanr` [~user@hobbes.space.umn.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:48:04 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:48:25 Arrdem [~reid@wireless-128-62-32-166.public.utexas.edu] has joined #lisp 22:49:12 alek_b [~alek_b@99-10-120-63.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:23 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:56:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:33 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:58:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-186.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:00:09 -!- buglouse [~Buglouse@176.31.24.235] has quit [Quit: "efnet, #ZNC; 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