00:00:12 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Quit: Tempo di fare qualcosa di utile.] 00:01:05 -!- Illiux [~nol@dhcp-lp-130-49-25-68.oakland.resnet.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 00:02:31 Praise [~Fat@cl-447.trn-01.it.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:39 -!- Praise [~Fat@cl-447.trn-01.it.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:02:39 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 00:05:01 -!- JKiiski [~JKiiski@178.239.192.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:06:07 timack [~timack@hlfx59-1-1.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 00:10:00 -!- Nisstyre is now known as nisstyre 00:12:02 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-197-149.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:12:40 -!- mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:16:32 Illiux [~nol@dhcp-lp-130-49-25-68.oakland.resnet.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 00:16:57 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 00:17:40 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 00:22:01 brendyyn [brendyn@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:65b4] has joined #lisp 00:28:03 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 00:28:03 -!- brendyyn is now known as brendyn 00:30:01 oriba [~oriba@e178000192.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:30:43 -!- kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:54 seangrove [~user@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:00 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 00:44:33 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-14-16.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:45:02 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-36-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:45:58 gigamonkey: is your mail archive a bunch of files named clNN.stuff? 00:47:58 Jollygood [~Jollygood@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:43 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-36-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:49:59 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-36-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:50:46 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:36 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:51 coder` [~user@p549185E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:51:52 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:47 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx59-1-1.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:54:18 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:54:36 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:13 -!- zulax [~radarwork@99-120-232-161.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:55:24 zulax [~radarwork@99-120-232-161.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:44 hey guys, i have a question: if someone writes an execution program for a lisp-like syntax is it a lisp? Since it doesn't have a "read" "eval" or "print" for its data structures accessible 00:56:38 coder`: possibly not. It might be a DSL different from lisp. But the advantage of using sexp, is that it allows you to smoothly integrate that DSL into lisp and back, so that you can consider it more like an extension to lisp than a separate language. Therefore you can say it's still lisp. 00:57:18 coder`: and with reader macros, you can even do that with other syntaxes than sexps: https://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_thread/thread/0245342429c61800 00:57:38 coder`: notice how you can mix lisp and "Objective-CL" syntax. 00:58:48 (defun eval-color (sexp) (cond ((atom sexp) (ensure-color sexp)) (t (case (first sexp) (mix ) (blend ) (over ) )))) (eval-color '(mix red (blend blue yellow))) 00:59:01 (mix red (blend blue yellow)) is not lisp, it's written in a DSL that's interpreted by eval-color. 00:59:03 -!- Guest63768 is now known as Buglouse 00:59:43 But you can still mix it easily with lisp: (let ((color (eval-color `(mix red ,(generate-color))))) (paint color)) 00:59:49 pjb: ah now i see what you mean 00:59:57 you could use some reader macro to hide the "eval-color" thing. 01:00:00 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 01:00:04 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Client Quit] 01:00:05 pjb: thx 01:00:15 (let ((color {mix red (generate-color)})) (paint color)) 01:00:26 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 01:02:32 hello. given a symbol how can I change value of a variable under that symbol? 01:03:40 frx: depends if it's a lexical variable or a special variable. What is it? 01:03:53 frx: why do you want to do that? 01:04:23 (setf (symbol-value '*x*) 42) if it's a special variable, (let ((x 0)) (setf x 0)) if it's a lexical variable. 01:04:29 ralith to remove code duplication. pjb it's a lexical variable. 01:04:32 thanks pjb 01:04:38 kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:50 that's not much of an answer 01:04:52 frx: since you know the lexical variables when you edit the code, you must use (setf x 42) directly in the code. 01:05:02 pjb well no, I have a symbol stored in a variable 01:05:21 so (let ((x 0) (sym 'x)) #| how to change x using sym #| 01:05:45 I'll try symbol-value 01:06:24 frx: or you could use macrology such as: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/63b8eb7ee001c7b8 01:06:25 no it didn't work it made x a special variable 01:06:51 frx: (let ((x 0) (sym 'x)) #| you cannot, only: |# (setf x 42) #|works|#) 01:06:52 (-4.01 3) => 1.010002, how do i get just 1.02 ? 01:07:45 (format t "~,2f" 1.010002) => 1.01 01:07:54 didn't you ask that question yesterday 01:07:56 and get the answer 01:08:23 i was missing the comma so it was acting weired 01:09:47 btw what I wanted to do is to avoid duplicating this three times, for minutes, hours, days.: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127664 . so I'd loop over variable symbol, seconds-in-, and then do it once 01:09:56 maybe an overkill 01:10:06 (and probably makes it less readable) 01:10:32 what would you, copy/paste? or wrap the code in a function 01:11:59 frx: or even this: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/0aded3f498d9f691 01:12:36 frx: to loop over you can always use closures. 01:12:41 See that last url ^ 01:13:02 hi 01:13:17 is there sbcl for android? 01:13:53 yeah! i completed my assignment 01:14:16 is there a way to remove the "" from (format nil "~,2f" 2.334) ? 01:14:40 the result has "2.34" with quotes 01:14:51 tlm [~tlm@212-147-26-21.fix.access.vtx.ch] has joined #lisp 01:14:59 because it's a string 01:15:16 convert the string to a number 01:15:28 zulax: print it. 01:15:30 he just converted it from a number to a string :) 01:15:37 zulax: (format t "~,2f" 2.334) 01:15:50 put that gives me NIL and messes up my calc 01:15:51 zulax: notice that's one of the most idiotic question one ask, but it let you learn something! 01:15:58 yes format nil doesn't actually output anything, it's your repl that does it 01:16:10 zulax: Do you want a string or not? 01:16:21 zulax: strings are written with double quotes. 01:16:39 ok, then i would prefer to have number 01:17:01 it doesn't give you nil, your function returns nil and REPL echoes that 01:17:05 zulax: see truncate. 01:17:22 (your function call even) 01:17:53 zulax: eg.: (* (truncate 1.23456789 0.001) 0.001) 01:18:03 zulax: "2.334" is the side effect of the function format 01:18:28 ok, i will use truncate then 01:18:47 zulax: (let ((string (format nil "~,2f" 2.334))) (princ string) (print string) (terpri)) 01:19:06 PRINC doesn't print readably. PRINT prints readably. 01:19:13 -!- kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:28 zulax: lisp is strongly typed, much more so than C! 01:19:49 pjb: ? 01:20:22 try: printf("%d","four"+3); 01:20:41 or: printf("%d",3["four"]); 01:21:03 zulax (defun hello () (print "Hello") 10). see it prints hello, and then 10, because function returned 10. if you call that in a loop or actual program 10 won't be printed 01:21:24 (loop (repeat 10) (hello)) 01:21:32 kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:32 Did C get some of its syntax from lisp? 01:21:38 (loop (repeat 10) do (hello)) 01:21:41 (defun hw () (terpri) (prinC "Hello world!") (terpri)) 01:21:44 zulax: actually not 01:21:48 zulax: none. 01:21:55 zulax: they're quite different languages 01:22:04 we have been warned not to still think of loop with lisp 01:22:10 zulax: c come out from algol style languages 01:22:11 only recusrion for now 01:22:12 (loop repeat 10 do (hello)) even, I'm too used to iterate 01:22:14 Well, one might argue that ?: comes from ternary if pushed by McCarthy, but that's all. 01:22:49 zulax: Lisp is the oldest programming language but the fortran 01:22:57 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:23:01 is nikodemus on here ever? if so what's his nick? 01:23:18 Posterdati: Common Lisp isn't :p 01:23:24 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:26 zulax: Lisp is strongly mathematics related 01:23:30 Posterdati, is Lisp mostly used in academia only ? 01:23:39 zulax: no 01:23:47 none of the job descriptions i ever see even mention lisp 01:23:47 -!- pjb is now known as Guest90954 01:24:06 -!- Guest90954 is now known as pjb 01:24:14 none of the job descriptions I see ever mention plumbing 01:24:20 :) 01:24:24 zulax: i got contacted a little while back about working on a lisp project...through reddit 01:24:25 nonetheless, I am sure people hire plumbers. 01:24:30 zulax: indeed. You must create your own startup to be able to use lisp professionnaly. 01:24:40 zulax: well McCarty (RIP) created it for better solve certain AI problems... 01:25:00 And indeed, you could be hired as a plumber and keep Lisp on your resume. 01:25:15 i put lisp on my resume :) 01:25:16 pjb: not only 01:25:29 pjb: even as porno actor/actress 01:25:34 might have helped me get my new job...or at least talking about it at the interview 01:26:00 kruhft: me too, they had fun during my interview 01:26:29 Posterdati: it looked like it sounded like a whole new world to them when i was talking about it 01:26:34 kruhft: one of them told me that Lisp, as derived from fortran is obsolete :) 01:26:49 but one of the guys was the lead on a language development team was really interested 01:26:51 Posterdati: it's funny how people have those strange ideas. 01:26:59 i like to call lisp a 'language playground' 01:26:59 Posterdati: McCarthy wasn't in AI :p 01:27:13 kruhft: a strange world made by mad people writing open and closed parenthesis ramdomly 01:27:14 McCarthy invented AI 01:27:17 Posterdati: lisp was never derived from fortran. It was a new creation because fortran (or algo) couldn't integrate well the constructs needed, such as ternary if and cond. 01:27:42 lisp was found 01:27:45 pjb: go tell that man then 01:27:49 Posterdati: there were a FLPL, a fortran library to do lisp processing however, and this library isa precursor to lisp: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/flpl/index.html 01:28:35 pjb: what do you do at your day job? 01:28:58 besides hang out on irc and usenet talking about lisp? :) 01:29:18 Nothing for now. At my night jobs I'm having fun implementing a LSE interpreter and environment (Langage Symbolique d'Enseignement), some retro-computing 01:29:19 pjb: I know that fortran is another stuff, but people tend to mix with Lisp or better think that Smalltalk = Lisp 01:29:55 -!- Ralith [~ralith@static-209-139-215-92.gtcust.grouptelecom.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:30:02 well if i ever make it to france we have to hang out 01:30:17 :-) 01:30:40 if my girlfriend doesn't dump me because of the fight last night, we had plans of having our wedding in paris :) 01:31:00 one thing i find interesting, a lot of hackers/geeks on irc are from Europe 01:31:26 yes, a lot from europe...but i'm from canada 01:32:07 never been to europe yet, only all over north america 01:32:27 i have been to a few places 01:32:29 who's in France? 01:32:49 pjb is i think 01:33:12 afaik 01:33:52 i wanna know more about "getting two output lines" with truncate and format, what should i search for 01:33:54 pjb: Are you in the area around Grenoble/Lyon by any chance? 01:34:16 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 01:34:28 zulax: could you be more precise? 01:34:59 just like format also gives NIL at the end, and (truncate x y) gives two lines of output 01:35:03 I'm in Spain in Valencia. 01:35:07 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 01:35:18 zulax: so what? 01:35:38 zulax: you are seeing two distinct phenomena. one is the side effect on the repl's output stream along with a return value, and the other is multiple return values. 01:35:39 zulax: you must distinguish what happens inside your program from what is done to its results by the REPL. 01:35:43 i know u said one is the echo other is REPL 01:35:44 zulax: read eval PRINT loop. 01:36:21 This is the minimum a REPL is specified to do to your expressions: http://paste.lisp.org/display/18280 01:36:40 zulax: there's no echo, truncate or * don't print anything. 01:36:45 zulax: read the doc of truncate! 01:37:21 looking at http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/old/texinfo/emacs19/cl_7.html 01:37:26 *Neronus* wants to have a job writing lisp code after his PhD. But just to be sure, he's also learning C, the other end of the spectrum 01:37:49 So beach's home page at his university is off, anybody knows what happened? 01:38:11 i dont think it mentions anything like that 01:38:13 Neronus: better learn how to make a start-up. 01:38:17 gtg, thanks guys, 01:38:29 -!- zulax [~radarwork@99-120-232-161.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:38:30 Neronus: http://ycombinator.com/ 01:39:06 pjb: the odds aren't in the favor of applicants... 01:39:06 i met some guys in ycombinator 01:39:29 pjb: I'm not living in the US, so I guess ycombinator is not really an option 01:39:32 in calgary...they're working on something called skysheet, next gen spreadsheet int the cloud 01:39:39 And I also would need an idea :) 01:39:41 Aethaeryn: well, you don't necessarily need venture capital to start up a company programming inlisp. 01:39:47 ycombinator has become a bit of a lottery 01:40:00 karswell_ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:40:01 Neronus: not necesasrily, but there are venture capitalists also in Europe, and even some American ones. 01:40:03 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 01:40:12 pjb: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Y_Combinator_%28company%29#Application_process 01:40:18 2.5% to 3.5% acceptance rate 01:40:36 i got contacted by kloud.co a while back...all common lisp 01:40:41 maybe that's because the number of applications increased? 01:40:53 huge number of applicants 01:40:58 Aethaeryn: I don't think it's worse than with any other VC. 01:41:16 well, I mean 1 in 40 01:41:42 your project better be "cloud" or some other hot buzzword 01:42:01 when i learned the name of the company i was a bit skeptic 01:42:10 What was it? 01:42:13 Well, I don't know if I'm cut out for a startup. I like other things in life, too :) 01:42:51 Neronus: retire early and indulge into hedonism 01:43:01 Neronus: http://zackarymorris.tumblr.com/post/16528366560/homesteading 01:43:12 Neronus: well, would you rather work 80 hour weeks now, or "40" hour weeks your whole life? 01:43:49 Aethaeryn: the latter 01:43:57 Well, good luck then. 01:44:09 Aethaeryn: you burn out. happened to me in the game industry 01:44:11 Aethaeryn: thank you :) 01:44:12 There are some people who are just workaholics who don't care about anything else but computers <_< 01:44:15 Ie. would you rather work 80 hour/week doing lisp now or 40 h/w doing PHP or Java for the rest of your life. 01:44:16 kruhft: Well, yeah. 01:44:21 kruhft: the idea is to get rich before you burn out 01:44:29 Better odds in a startup as a founder than in the game industry 01:44:30 Aethaeryn: then they don't need money 01:44:34 Aethaeryn: well that's like winning the lottery 01:44:40 Aethaeryn: i thought i was getting rich :) 01:44:46 kruhft: I've heard that analogy, but it's wrong. 01:44:52 you can buy a lottery ticket everyday 01:45:03 Winning the lottery... is so next to 0 in statistics that you might as well round to 0. 01:45:10 Even 1% or .1% is way better than the lottery. 01:45:12 Aethaeryn: this was 10 years ago 01:45:29 stassats`: 0 * 0 * 0 * 0 * ... 01:45:40 there may be better odds but ... 01:45:41 Sure someone wins, but that's just due to the law of large numbers or w/e it's called 01:45:53 we always want a meritcocracy 01:46:00 but it doesn't always work that way 01:46:05 If the odds of winning are 1 in 300 million and every American buys a ticket, then yes, there'll be a winner eventually. 01:46:11 clintm [~cmoore@c-98-232-33-73.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:12 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:46:20 kruhft: of course not 01:46:25 Aethaeryn: shouldn't you add probabilities, not multiply? 01:46:43 Aethaeryn: Have you ever tried an 80 hour week? It's now fun, as you probably know 01:46:47 i never expect to get rich working from people...but i'm climbing as high as i can to make as much money as i can to start something...and probably in lisp 01:46:56 stassats`: I am amazing at math but terrible at converting word problem <---> math equation 01:47:04 stassats`: so I honestly don't know/care 01:47:11 lies! 01:47:14 fortunately 0 * 0 * 0 * ... == 0 + 0 + 0 + ... 01:47:25 but it's not 0, really 01:47:28 which with enough 0 is = 1. 01:47:36 anyway, that's off-topic 01:47:38 eh, I guess in this case it's + 01:47:50 i wish they covered statistics in high school math here...but they seem to now. I quized an 18 year old the other day 01:47:53 since it's * if you are saying the odds of winning *each* time, and plus one time 01:48:10 pjb: how old are you? if you don't mind me asking 01:48:27 I was born in 1964. 01:48:39 ok, 9 years older than me 01:49:02 i just want to say that i respect you...at least enough to look you up :) 01:50:10 Neronus: I believe you... I've never coded on my own from more than 21 hours in one week apparently. 40 does seem to be a way to avoid burnout... I did 63 hours then 40 hours then 49 hours then 31 hours of schoolwork one time, and then severely burned out. 01:50:25 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.163.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:50:26 And yeah... I do extremely detailed accounting of hours a week spent on a subject. 01:50:34 Well, at least week tallies. I'm too disorganized to do it any more detailed. 01:50:44 I can deduce based on the context of the week what it was on. 01:51:28 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-130-219.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:51:28 programming doesn't include just writing code 01:51:30 Granted, I don't record time spent not working, so I'm being honest... 01:51:42 I'm sure some people are paid for time spent on reddit for instance :-P 01:51:54 Aethaeryn: I did that for 3 weeks, writing my diploma theses about 3 years ago. No fun :) 01:51:57 Well, being the boss of a startup, you organize your time as you want. Work smart, not a lot. Which doesn't mean that you won't be 80 hours in the office dealing with stuff. 01:52:23 i didnt' sleep for 5 days when i was finishing my thesis at university 01:52:30 lol, ycombinator pays $14k for startups with one founder 01:52:44 worked 12-16 hour days 7 days a week for months in the game industry 01:52:52 I wonder if I could get micropayment financing for that small amount without having to give up an ownership stake 01:53:07 Aethaeryn: you could try kickstarter 01:53:27 now i say i get paid for 40 hours, i work 40 hours 01:53:55 kruhft: I would never work for the commercial game industry, based on what I've heard about it. 01:54:13 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-36-133.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:20 Aethaeryn: i started in 1997, it was relatively brand new then 01:54:21 It's funny because so many comp sci majors at my school have no idea what they're going into and how burnout it is, even though you can just... you know, read someone's writings (well, many people's writings) easily accessible. 01:54:31 I guess confirmation bias or something. You ignore data that goes against your worldview. 01:54:46 Aethaeryn: there's some good people but few and far between, much like any industry 01:55:11 it's all last minute 01:55:23 no minute like the last minute, as we would say in school 01:55:31 Anyway, paying $60 for the highest-quality large-team-made computationally-and-graphically-intense games is a bit... dated. 01:55:36 Look at Zynga and Angry Birds. 01:55:44 i haven't played games in years 01:55:52 All you need to do is push stuff that's less @#$#@ than the @#$@# those people peddled to get rich off of 01:56:11 Worse is better :-P 01:56:13 i consider finance to be the ultimate game..with real points you can buy houses with 01:56:21 zynga did angry birds? 01:56:26 i did not know that 01:56:29 no 01:56:31 they didn't 01:56:36 I said Zynga, and Angry Birds 01:56:41 oh ok 01:56:45 since I don't know the games Zynga did and I don't know the company for Angry Birds 01:56:55 well they did farmvill 01:57:00 farmville 01:57:00 I hate this casual gaming rush since they... kinda suck compared to games that existed even 10 years ago 01:57:25 I am really surprised Farmville or Mafia Wars were done by more than one person. 01:57:27 i really haven't played games since Warcraft 2 01:57:39 -!- nisstyre is now known as Nisstyre 01:57:41 Aethaeryn: everybody is busy working 80 hours weeks, no time to play game 01:57:41 s 01:57:46 i only played mafia wars because a hot chick kept sending me messages 01:57:50 There have been browser games since '05 or before done in cgi or swf by a small team better than that @#$# Zynga peddles 01:58:07 i think that as you get older you realize that the game is just around you 01:58:07 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:58:11 it's everything 01:58:18 life..is...a....game 01:58:38 Yeah, sure... profound. 01:58:50 i know, i can get pretty deep 01:58:56 :) 01:58:59 But there's some poor quality 'cloud' games out there that need to be rectified... by making a high-quality alternative 01:59:02 :-P 01:59:09 Even if grown ups just make them, not play them :-P 01:59:23 but in real life, points are money 01:59:33 and yes, they do play them 01:59:36 eh :-/ 01:59:42 money 01:59:53 but the real realization is when you get that you are just playing games...and love it 02:00:08 that's how you really succeeed 02:00:09 I've observed people work so hard to make money they themselves couldn't enjoy. 02:00:13 Only spouses/kids/etc. could. 02:00:18 That's just... not worth it 02:00:35 depends 02:00:41 some poeple don't have kids 02:00:55 I am not a charity and even if I were, I'd be donating it to society, not to three people. 02:01:06 but i would consider kids more important if i was to have them 02:01:11 OT alarm 02:01:12 but i really don't think i will 02:01:36 donate your money for SBCL development 02:01:46 well there's personal score you can quantify (money) and then there'e non-quantifiably reputation or karma 02:01:55 stassats`: Yes, cl needs to compile better than C. 02:02:03 stassats`: i'm trying to get INTO sbcl development 02:02:22 that's why i was asking about Nikodemus 02:02:39 i wrote him an email but haven't heard back so i was wondering if he was on here 02:02:45 know SBCL inside-out and you're golden 02:02:59 well i'm planning on it...but it will take a while 02:03:47 it usually does 02:03:55 i just picked a build wishlist problem. mostly in shell script, i don't think my lisp is good enough to contribute to sbcl yet 02:04:25 i wrote nikidemus about it but haven't heard back...he did the original bu 02:04:27 bug 02:04:31 kruhft: but do you think Paul Graham is wrong on startups? Because http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html got me to try to learn cl 02:05:04 Paul Graham is wrong on CL. 02:05:17 But he said Lisp was the secret weapon 02:05:31 that allowed him to outcode a large team, quickly. 02:05:33 did Paul Graham use CL or some other lisp? 02:05:36 I wonder whether he's happy with the fact that he inspires people to learn CL 02:05:57 Paul Graham made a fortune writing a CL program with clisp. Anything he can say after that is moo. 02:06:05 frx: he originally used CL to get rich 02:06:22 Aethaeryn: No i don't think PG is wrong, but he's gotten very popular 02:06:36 pjb: exactly 02:06:39 i still think lisp is a secret weapon if you learn how to use it 02:06:42 pjb: His observations apply to cl, not arc 02:06:56 he made an inference based on cl, tried to make a better cl with arc, and it's not really proven anywhere that arc is miraculous 02:07:00 i've played with arc and use it to run my website 02:07:08 yuck 02:07:09 Aethaeryn: doesn't matter. If he could make a fortune with Common Lisp, so you can. 02:07:25 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:25 Nobody has made a fortune with arc yet. 02:07:27 pjb: yes, but this stuff isn't necessarily reproducable 02:07:29 sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:37 you work hard enough and are smart enough you will get rich i think 02:07:38 Aethaeryn: what's the probability of that? 02:07:41 Bill Gates made a fortune by screwing over IBM... should I try to screw over a hardware company? 02:07:54 ITA sold to google too, that's at least to existent data point. 02:07:57 those opportunties are over 02:07:57 points 02:08:05 you need to really innovate 02:08:07 If you can. 02:08:20 kruhft: there's a selection bias, those who got reach are smart and worked hard, but you don't hear about people who worked as hard but didn't get rich 02:08:22 well that's the meritocracy 02:08:38 sshirokov: yes, i understand that, but that is life 02:08:48 half the game is about politics 02:08:52 business 02:08:55 and being rich shouldn't be the goal in itself 02:09:06 stassats`: well you can assume that most people who failed used C :-P 02:09:09 no, i don't think so 02:09:16 and you can assume that a lot of failures today are using Java :-P 02:09:23 but i think it's an interesting goal simple because i want to retire someday 02:09:57 i just want enough to stop working someday just like my parents and their parents can do 02:10:01 er...have done 02:10:12 stassats`: I don't think money should be the goal... I think getting paid to do what you want to do when you have no other option is the ultimate motivation. 02:10:31 Maybe Lisp isn't any better than C, but the people who like Lisp *have* less options and so do things like startups because they want to code Lisp. 02:11:36 Aethaeryn: they have less options true, but the people with money don't care about the tech that built it, they care about the money 02:11:59 and, like i said in the interview this week, the community around lisp is highly connected 02:12:01 knowing your tools inside-out always helps 02:12:12 kruhft: my point is, if you like Java, you can work with java in many, many, many existing places. 02:12:20 i have a feeling that i could ask some of the best lisp programmers in the world if they would like a job 02:12:23 If you like X and X isn't popular, you'll have few options. Maybe even only one option 02:12:40 and i think they would say yes if they would want to 02:12:46 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:58 well if they we're looking 02:13:08 martinip [~martinip@unaffiliated/martinip] has joined #lisp 02:13:15 and if you were paying enough 02:13:25 but lisp has a really tight nit very smart community that is obsessed with the language 02:13:25 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:32 yes if you were paying enough 02:13:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:13:37 kruhft: I don't have that impression at all. 02:13:40 i didn't get such an impression 02:13:43 kruhft: What gives you that impression? 02:13:48 Xach: why not? 02:13:56 kruhft: Because I haven't seen evidence to support it. 02:14:08 well i was talking about a feeling 02:14:14 well, it is interesting that in #lisp I can meet people who have a higher profile in the Lisp community than other #language-x people have in the Language X community 02:14:23 kruhft: I think you might feel differently with more exposure. 02:14:32 Aethaeryn: i guess that's what i'm talking about 02:14:34 Xach: you're famous! 02:14:55 Xach: maybe i'm looking for that exposure, but like pjb said, you're famous 02:15:20 Xach: you're on the cover of a book I own 02:15:24 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-55-134.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:15:29 You won't find many LispWorks or allegro user who knows anything about me. 02:15:33 Users, rather. 02:15:47 Xach: so what, you did somethign great 02:16:05 Glad you think so, but I don't think that is evidence for a highly connected community. 02:16:15 noname [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:18 -!- noname is now known as two- 02:16:21 Xach: yes, but I own a book on which you are the endorsing quote 02:16:24 we know who you are 02:16:27 the front cover too 02:16:30 i know how pjbis 02:16:32 The #lisp community is highly connected to itself. 02:16:44 we know who gigamonkey ius 02:16:52 CL community seems more individual-driven, everybody does things that he needs to be done 02:16:59 Aside from that, there are a number of other not-as-connected Lisp-related communities. 02:17:32 Aethaeryn book author is in this channel too 02:17:37 Xach: could you explain? 02:17:43 if you're talking about PCL 02:17:57 frx: yes 02:18:05 unless "Xach on #lisp" has endorsed other books too 02:18:09 Aethaeryn: you wrote a book? 02:18:15 kruhft: no 02:18:19 Xach: do you think there are more Allegro+Lispworks users than ccl+sbcl+cmucl+clisp users? 02:18:36 kruhft: I bought a book (and hence own a copy) on which "Xach on #lisp" is one of the endorsing quotes 02:18:38 great retirement plan: get quoted on a bestseller book and live from royalties 02:18:50 kruhft: If you go to e.g. the International Lisp Conference, you are likely to not see very many people from IRC, but a lot of people who used Lisp in the 80s and 90s, or who are off on their own working on Allegro CL projects or LispWorks projects, or who wrote a paper about some scheme topic. 02:18:52 I'd love to know how many active paid licenses those two companies have. 02:18:53 i have a feeling that "professionsals" might have out elsewhere 02:19:13 i mena hang out elsewhere 02:19:21 kruhft: If you read the LispWorks mailing list, they're not talking about Quicklisp or ASDF much, but about CAPI and the IDE and stuff like that. 02:19:38 I'd be interesting to know roughly how many people use ccl, but I really have no idea. 02:19:39 There are lots of different groups of Lisp users. 02:19:40 Xach: i'm not on that list 02:20:18 CL users, even. 02:20:25 kruhft: don't worry, if I'm ever a rich professional, I can host an irc.yachtnode.net and invite you all to #lisp there so you can hang out with rich CL users on a yacht... 02:20:31 well i think that this is a tight knit community and i think that we could make something out of it...for some reason 02:20:50 Aethaeryn: haha 02:20:51 If you think big enough, you never have to do anything. 02:21:17 well i just have the feeling that we know the best language and that we should really just...program in it and take over the world 02:21:19 #lisp just has some vocal maintainers of some open-source lisp projects, that is all 02:21:22 or something like that 02:21:28 *kruhft* drinks another beer 02:21:31 Aethaeryn: we have a lisper in here who lives on a yacht. :-) 02:21:44 pjb: ah, so we can already have the yachtnode :-D 02:22:09 *kruhft* goes for a smoke... 02:22:54 #lisp doesn't need to know what methods you use to damage your health 02:23:05 stassats`: computer programming 02:23:39 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:23:41 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 02:24:19 Speaking of damaging one's health, what GUI libraries do you guys prefer? 02:24:28 borkman: commonqt 02:25:19 stassats`: I tried that one earlier today, but couldn't get it running. 02:25:32 borkman: which OS? 02:25:44 Linux. Ubuntu, specifically. 02:25:51 that one should be easy 02:26:01 Error while invoking # on #SO "qt" "commonqt"> 02:26:07 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.105] has joined #lisp 02:26:26 borkman: can you transition into terminal, go to commonqt directory and issue make? 02:26:43 Yeah. Give me a minute. 02:26:54 and paste the results to paste.lisp.org 02:27:22 hi, i was wondering if Elephant persistent object database is the right thing to use nowadays. I'm following Lisp For The Web, and it recommends using it...but hasnt been updated in over 4 years. 02:27:52 some are successfully using postmodern 02:27:56 ghoti- [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 02:27:58 axion: it's too old. Write a new more modern persistance system now! 02:28:09 any worth-mentioning alternatives these days? 02:28:16 axion: It's not N.I.H, it's N.I.N. 02:28:19 stassats`: There's no makefile. 02:28:29 borkman: ok, run qmake first 02:28:33 ...There's "old-GNUmakefile" 02:28:36 axion: writing your own stuff is always a good alternative. 02:28:45 Ah. 02:29:01 Looks like I have to install smoke first. 02:29:12 if you didn't do so, yes 02:29:22 and qmake too 02:29:24 ok, i'll write my own 02:30:09 At least it'll be uptodate and maitained. 02:30:16 axion: i just mentioned postmodern, it's not a fully blown persistent solution, but it's enough for the web 02:30:48 -!- Ashii_ [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 02:30:49 honestly i've little experience with lisp, and just hacking around to learn more. writing my own is the best way anyway 02:31:34 see you in three years then 02:32:02 -!- davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:32:19 that's good. In three years he'll have a web page that's been updated in 2015, while elephant's will be 7 years old! 02:32:32 geeze...i didn't think going for a smoke would be such an issue 02:32:40 hence why i have been teaching myself lisp for 6 months. 4 years on a python web project and nothing but convoluted boiler plate to show for 02:33:02 kruhft: any off-topic is not welcome here 02:33:10 axion: there's a differnce between front and back end programmer 02:33:28 stassats`: i just thought it was a conversation with smart people 02:34:01 agreed 02:34:06 is it fine to C-c C-c defpackage to send it's changed definition to slime? it appears to work 02:34:10 kruhft: no, it's a conversation about Common Lisp 02:34:17 -!- kwmiebach__ [~kwmiebach@xdsl-78-34-222-193.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:34:18 frx: perfectly fine 02:34:21 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:55 For general discussion, try #emacs. granted, slightly less smart than here, but you can talk about anything there. 02:34:58 stassats`: on a friday night, i think that's a bit limiting, but fine 02:35:19 ah, right, #lisp-social is #emacs 02:35:26 there's #lispcafe 02:35:35 stassats` ok thanks 02:37:36 but i'd rather talk to you guys 02:37:42 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:23 (subsetp (users-of #lispcafe) (users-of #lisp)) 02:38:45 kruhft: go ahead, Common Lisp is a vast topic 02:39:55 whh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has joined #lisp 02:40:11 ok, you want to talk about common lisp, what do you think about my active-variables library: https://github.com/kruhft/typed-cl 02:40:24 oops, i mean my typed-cl project 02:40:27 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:41:03 personally i like types because i came from a C background and Haskell has started to really show me what you can do with types, which CL lacks 02:41:04 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 02:41:20 this was my attempt at bringing that world to CL in my own beginner attempts 02:41:25 i don't have a problem with type declaration facilities CL already provides 02:42:13 and SBCL does a good job without any declarations 02:42:31 well my library has been designed to make them a bit more seemless 02:42:36 seamless 02:42:36 -!- whh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has quit [Client Quit] 02:43:05 zulax [~radarwork@99-120-232-161.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:43:15 i don't need type declarations in 99.99% cases 02:43:27 what about reading other people's code? 02:43:54 i made a small program, it would be beneficial to know how i can imporove my lisp sills 02:44:01 http://paste.lisp.org/+2QIC 02:44:01 do you think that the convention of adding an s at the end is enough to determine the type of an argument 02:44:04 i wouldn't like to read code abundant with unnecessary type declarations 02:44:31 (fMakechange 3.4 5) => (1.0 DOLLARS 1.0 HALF-DOLLARS 0 QUARTERS 1.0 DIME 0 NICKEL 0 PENNY) 02:44:36 whh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has joined #lisp 02:44:41 stassats`: well i think that's personal opinion...my library is designed to make them not as obtrusive. CL type declerations are an eyesore 02:44:43 zulax: you should use paredit. Your closing parentheses are not placed well. 02:44:48 zulax: put all closing parenthesis on one line. (unless there is a good reason not to) 02:45:07 zulax: how to improve your skills: don't use this horrible name notation, it's do-something-smart in lisp 02:45:17 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D586.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:37 yea, I need to stop thinking C# with lisp 02:45:39 zulax: compare with http://paste.lisp.org/display/26868 02:45:46 kruhft: you don't need type declartions in Lisp 02:46:01 and nobody writes them, unless they're needed 02:46:11 stassats`: i know you don't need them 02:46:24 stassats`: but i *like* them 02:46:30 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AD79.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:34 when you are working on others code 02:46:45 it's the perfect time to stop liking them 02:46:45 i've run into the same problem with python 02:46:55 it just helps you understand 02:47:08 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 02:47:15 i have no problems understanding code without declarations 02:47:29 stassats`: yes, i know htat's very zen, but i grew up in a different way 02:47:55 it's Lisp, many things are done differently here, you need to learn them, not try to change Lisp 02:48:13 my way of indenting is so different from the standard norm 02:48:25 kruhft: otherwise, if you want haskell, you know where to find it 02:48:52 stassats`: true enough and tuouche 02:48:58 zulax: just use emacs+paredit and everything is done automatically for you. 02:48:59 oops, i mean touche 02:49:16 but the last time i checked liskell was abandoneed 02:49:37 i despise paredit 02:49:50 your loss 02:49:54 stassats`, well, changing lisp is the lisp way , no? 02:49:55 :) 02:50:06 araujo: not really 02:50:20 stassats`: not in certain communities 02:50:29 no?, I thought this was what set Lisp pretty much apart from rest of the languages 02:50:38 stassats`: but lisp was designed as the programmable programming language 02:50:51 You don't program in Lisp, you create your own language extending or changing Lisp 02:51:01 araujo: exactly 02:51:16 u mean like prolog? 02:51:30 -!- seangrove [~user@70-36-236-249.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:43 araujo: that's just a bunch of baloney invented to lure newcomers 02:52:09 prolog is similar yes, that's why it's always implemented in lisp 02:52:14 if you want to share your code, stick with what CL provides as much as it's reasonable 02:52:19 hehe 02:52:25 stassats`: but that's so limiting 02:52:42 pjb did you understand my code and redid ur version so quick? 02:52:49 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 02:52:53 if you share your code , ... that will modify whatever lisp instance you run too , not big deal 02:52:57 stassats`: the reason to use lisp is to expand your horizons...you old timers are just limiting the possibilites of the language 02:52:58 :D 02:53:09 :) 02:53:43 or is it your version that you already had made 02:53:47 computer science is less than 70 years old 02:53:50 kruhft: yes, it's very possible to transform lisp into an unreadable mess, but that doesn't mean that you should do it 02:54:04 we have a whole frontier ahead of os 02:54:08 us i mean 02:54:16 US 02:56:16 araujo: creating abstractions in lisp is no different from creating them in other languages, although it provides more means to do that 02:56:23 Mimicking C is expanding your horizons? 02:56:37 "Any sufficiently complicated Lisp or Scheme program contains an ad-hoc, bug-ridden, slow implementation of Brainfuck." 02:56:41 and yet nobody talks about haskell or javascript "you create the language first, then you write your program" 02:56:57 i don't know who started this bullshit in lisp 02:57:06 stassats`, those extra feature it provides can make the difference here .... 02:57:21 for example, data and code represented in the same way and such 02:57:31 well that's how i see it and if you feel no need ot reuse my code i could care less 02:57:36 also its dynamic implementation, and the powerful repl 02:57:39 i use lisp for experimentation 02:58:03 -!- cpc262 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:58:23 probably it is not the only language by now with those features though, but that is ok 02:59:18 because it's 50+ years old 02:59:37 (macroexpand-1 '#x10) <- why is this returning just 16 and not what #x macro expands to? 02:59:55 macroexpand-1 doesn't expand read-macros 03:00:08 what does? 03:00:43 (get-dispatch-macro-character #\# #\x) 03:01:10 that returned a function 03:01:19 that's right 03:01:40 it gets called with the stream as one of its arguments and then it does its magic 03:01:42 why can't I expand it though? a bit confused 03:01:57 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129233144.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:01:58 the number 16 _is_ the expansion, as far as I understand it 03:02:05 because reader-macros are not like ordinary macros, they're not expandable 03:02:28 what are you expecting to see from it? 03:02:31 reader macro doesn't expand, it reads source and creates object 03:02:31 (setf x '(2 2)) => slime gives me undefined variable x 03:02:52 zulax: you need to use defparameter or defvar to introduce special variables 03:03:07 Phoodus same thing you get when you expand a defmacro. I guess I don't understand reader macros 03:03:07 ok 03:04:00 a defmacro effectively calls a function and puts the return value into the source code. a reader macro effectively calls a function and puts the return value into the source code 03:04:07 that reader macro function returns 16 03:04:20 -!- Buglouse [~weechat@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:23 yes I see 03:05:05 actually I don't, you repeated the same thing for both. we can expand one but not the other 03:05:21 a macroexpansion just shows you the raw return value of the macro expansion call 03:05:58 so say you have (defmacro myadd (a b) (+ a b)), macroexpanding (myadd 1 2) (requiring numeric parameters) would macroexpand to 3 03:06:40 that's all the reader macro is doing; reading the rest of the input token and returning a number. It doesn't expand to code 03:06:47 kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:07:24 they're just functions that are called at compile-time; there's really no other magic than that 03:07:33 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-vursombyxqxiynwv] has joined #lisp 03:07:55 zipace [~hi@unaffiliated/zipace] has joined #lisp 03:07:59 stassats`: Got CommonQt working. Thanks! 03:08:09 borkman: great 03:08:13 frx: well, read-time for reader macros, not compile-time 03:09:52 standard reader macros work on literal data, so you they just return literals, except for ` but the printer handles it in a special 03:10:04 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 03:10:09 for your own you can just quote the expression 03:10:41 meaning i can return a list that's passed to the compiler? 03:11:01 you just do '#some-fancy-reader-macro 03:11:15 cpc262 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 03:12:09 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 03:13:39 ok i'll read more about them 03:14:21 e.g. you can have (set-macro-character #\^ (lambda (stream char) (declare (ignore char)) `(exp ,(read stream t nil t)))) 03:14:29 I wanted to use [1..5] syntax to create a list from 1 to 5, just for fun. possible? 03:14:37 then ^2 => 7.389056, and '^2 => (EXP 2) 03:14:45 frx: sure 03:16:01 don't forget about [1,3..10] 03:16:15 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:17:43 -!- kmcorbett [~kmcorbett@173-9-35-41-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Quit] 03:18:10 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:22:13 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:08 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.214.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:26:23 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 03:28:49 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:07 -!- kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:29:12 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has joined #lisp 03:29:25 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:29:37 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:45 sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.91.194] has joined #lisp 03:37:11 -!- sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.91.194] has quit [Client Quit] 03:38:07 ysph [~user@adsl-98-89-72-107.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:50 new library for the masses https://bitbucket.org/tarballs_are_good/cl-gap-buffer 03:40:16 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:40:28 are you writing an emacs? 03:40:55 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:01 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:02 stassats`, no 03:44:47 Quadrescence: I think the license file is missing (referred to in the readme). 03:45:17 ArmyOfBruce, you're right, and it's added now 03:51:59 -!- zulax [~radarwork@99-120-232-161.lightspeed.iplsin.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:53:14 stassats`, I am waiting to^H^Hfor CLIMACS though 03:59:31 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@104-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:00:08 -!- Illiux [~nol@dhcp-lp-130-49-25-68.oakland.resnet.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 04:00:22 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.81.144] has joined #lisp 04:00:29 Interesting. I hadn't heard of gap buffers before. Are they typical for text editor algorithms? 04:00:54 Illiux [~nol@dhcp-lp-130-49-25-68.oakland.resnet.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 04:04:03 -!- inklesspen [~jon-freen@inklesspen.com] has left #lisp 04:04:34 -!- tlm [~tlm@212-147-26-21.fix.access.vtx.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:05:46 pnathan, I think emacs use(d) them at one point. The problem is that it's not efficient to represent a single large file, since it's O(n) to traverse n characters, but perhaps a scheme of each line being a gap buffer, maybe. But in all honesty, I'm not entirely sure for editors in general. 04:05:57 -!- Illiux [~nol@dhcp-lp-130-49-25-68.oakland.resnet.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 04:07:56 -!- martinip [~martinip@unaffiliated/martinip] has left #lisp 04:08:24 Illiux [~nol@dhcp-lp-130-49-25-68.oakland.resnet.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 04:09:34 Huh. Good to know. 04:12:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:12:34 Frijolenborg [~JiggyBlkM@201.130.152.147.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:40 Anybody here think that niggers are human? 04:12:42 I don't! 04:12:49 That is why I am a member of Chimpout Forum! 04:12:53 Frijolenborg, I hope you die 04:12:57 die an awful death 04:13:03 get shot just below the heart by a mugger 04:13:09 now get out of this channel please 04:13:20 Make me bitch! 04:13:36 Average human IQ 100 Average nigger IQ 85 04:13:37 stassats`, do you have +o? please somebody kick him 04:13:57 Niggers are several times more likely than humans to commit murder 04:14:11 niggers are 13% of the US population but over 35% of welfare recipients 04:14:16 niggers are a drain on the taxpayer! 04:14:43 Frijolenborg, I hope you find yourself on welfare, and then when you go to the hospital, you get treated (well!) by an african-american doctor 04:14:56 probably won't happen 04:15:00 I live in Mexico 04:15:05 and we don't really have welfare 04:15:16 entonces vete a la verga puto 04:15:17 :D 04:15:30 if you live in Mexico, then why are you being racist 04:15:52 lol there is tons of racism here 04:16:01 pinche indio 04:16:04 ;) 04:16:06 *Adlai* abandons this troll, he isn't worth my time 04:16:17 any way to hit sbcl and make it read unicode? 04:16:18 soon the sun comes up anyways and then he'll turn to stone :) 04:18:14 Cosman246 [~user@216.9.29.126] has joined #lisp 04:18:18 Trying to load Manifest and it's falling over from sbcl reading ascii and freaking out on unicode. :-/ 04:20:34 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-190.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:22:25 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-50-126-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:23:21 hba [~hba@187.171.205.0] has joined #lisp 04:24:57 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-130-219.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:25:02 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.107.83] has joined #lisp 04:25:52 pnathan, let me see what i have 04:27:19 pnathan, this is all I have http://codepad.org/L0ozlDF3 04:28:45 Yup. That's what it took. 04:28:58 we have a winner 04:29:58 should put that up on your blog! 04:30:04 good idea 04:30:43 -!- Illiux [~nol@dhcp-lp-130-49-25-68.oakland.resnet.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 04:30:52 -!- ysph [~user@adsl-98-89-72-107.mgm.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:30:52 -!- Frijolenborg [~JiggyBlkM@201.130.152.147.dsl.dyn.telnor.net] has quit [K-Lined] 04:31:07 -!- oriba [~oriba@e178000192.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: oriba] 04:33:23 http://symbo1ics.com/blog/?p=1270 04:34:44 argh, after a reboot SLIME won't start sbcl for me anymore, "Can't exec program". I can type in the full path in a terminal, and paste in the (progn (load "..slime..." ..)) stuff it prints to *inferior-lisp* just fine; but emacs can't seem to 04:35:08 basically, running everything that *inferior-lisp* says it's trying is running fine elsewhere 04:36:57 and of course, I figure it out right after posting publicly about it :-P 04:37:35 (had new cmdline params along with sbcl in one string in the launch line, instead of as separate strings) 04:40:24 ysph [~user@adsl-98-89-72-107.mgm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:40:30 -!- coder` [~user@p549185E9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:43:06 -!- rme [rme@13FF0A92.B66D9153.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:43:06 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.133.173] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:45:09 teggi [~teggi@113.172.52.225] has joined #lisp 04:50:15 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:30 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:58:05 -!- YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-56-114.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:58:45 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:00:07 retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:22 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:43 I'd like to parse the xml in a wikipedia dump but it seems that all of the xml parsers I've found read their input into memory before processing. 05:03:52 Though, to be honest, I "xml parsers I've found" = (ql:system-apropose "xml") 05:05:15 -!- cpc262 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:05:29 oh, well, cxml is apparently a 'safe bet'. I'll try that first. 05:06:46 I'm pretty sure klacks parser in cxml can work directly with a stream. not sure about others 05:07:43 -!- ozzloy [~ozzloy@ozzloy.lifeafterking.org] has quit [Changing host] 05:07:43 ozzloy [~ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy] has joined #lisp 05:08:50 kennyd: yep, that's what I'm trying now. I didn't read far enough down the page on the cxml quickstart. 05:09:39 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:10:13 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:14:26 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-vursombyxqxiynwv] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:15:24 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-121-196.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:17:34 stassats`: reading a reader macro will expand it: (read-from-string "#x10") --> 16. 05:18:25 stassats`: reader macros are exectuted at read time, to produce the objects that are _read_. 05:19:22 stassats`: normal macros are expanded, ie. executed at macro-expansion time (usually at compilation time), to produce the objects that are executed. 05:19:22 stassats`: functions are executed at run-time to produce the objects that are returned. 05:19:35 of course, all the times may mix: (print (eval (read))) 05:20:02 pjb, is it possible to make a macro for a "hash table literal", which expands into an object which is a populated hash table at compile time, and can be used at runtime? I always run into the issue that a hash table seemingly doesn't have a representation which represents itself in a literal fashion, and therefore it must always be constructed at runtime 05:21:34 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:21:50 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.218] has joined #lisp 05:22:13 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:22:14 frx: you can hide whole programs behind a reader macro. Whole scanners and parsers. As long as they return a lisp object to be considered as read. (this lisp object can be an atom, or a sexp, and it can of course be a lisp form). 05:22:24 Quadrescence: of course. 05:22:40 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has joined #lisp 05:22:57 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 05:23:29 Quadrescence: the only trouble with literal objects, is that if you want to compile-file, you need to provide a way to read them back later at load time (when the .fasl is loaded). For this you must provide a MAKE-LOAD-FORM method. 05:23:40 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-121-196.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:23:49 Of course, lisp provides load form methods for its printable-readably objects. 05:24:09 JKiiski [~JKiiski@178.239.192.192] has joined #lisp 05:24:11 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-121-196.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:25:02 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 05:25:17 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-121-196.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 05:25:21 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-121-196.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:26:27 one day I should write a scanner generator that generate reader macros for all the characters 05:28:00 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:32:07 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:33:11 Nshag [~shag@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 05:34:28 Is it possible to write keyword arguments that override special variables? I am reading some code that seems to do just that, but I don't see it called out in the clhs. 05:38:21 pjb, doh, I forgot all about MAKE-LOAD-FORM 05:38:46 pnathan: yes, that works. 05:40:59 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:41:34 wildnux [~wildnux@cpe-72-182-70-190.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:42:41 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:43:28 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:43:39 Ralith: That's really nifty! 05:43:51 sometimes! 05:44:06 I'm kind of suspicious of special variable use myself 05:45:50 It may solve an annoying API problem I got myself into 05:46:12 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.188.27] has joined #lisp 05:50:22 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 05:51:56 pnathan: you can create a new dynamic binding. To overwrite a special varible you need to use SETF. 05:52:16 pjb: he said override, not overwrite. 05:52:32 (defun f (&optional (*stuff* *stuff*)) ) is a common idiom. 05:52:39 Ralith: right. 05:53:04 I don't know about common, but it is done. 05:53:14 Huh, hadn't run into it before. 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otakutomo abeaumont The_third_man zophy hypno nicdev_ Patzy ineiros__ flip214 AntiSpamMeta vsync superflit _stink_ BlankVerse aerique eli scode_ jasom_ lispyone jaimef jsnell MrBusiness |3b|`` micro`_ sav_ srcerer __main__ ArmyOfBruce Quadrescence weinholt ned snits tali713 mensch cow-orker johs antoszka savant_ billstclair eMBee 16:10:10 -!- names: z0d Obfuscate lusory kaol erg Khisanth rootzlevel drwho jayne gensym guther_ cmbntr_ CrazyEddy peterhil yeltzooo ihyoyoung_ djuber chr rotty lsenta tty234 kloeri saint_cypher diginet BlastHardcheese Vutral em syrinx_ sawjig pok sykopomp arbscht daimrod rotty_ ecraven bobbysmith0071 finnrobi_ EarlGray sipo cataska_ gz k9quaint g0 bps koollman Fade dsp_ herbieB_ Borbus ozzloy tic arnsholt Amadiro tessier lonstein rabite_ Tordek BixSqrl SpitfireWP ered 16:10:10 -!- names: foom easye`` billitch_ rdd` dcrawford Enoria PissedNumlock elliottcable basho__ Mandus peterbb_ ok2 ineiros_ daedric CrazyThinker fmu axion wolgo j_king rson sshirokov aoh limetree oGMo slyrus ski_ loke cYmen egn_ Jabberwockey vpit3833 joast tankpilot totzeit blackwol` bieber clog spacefrogg^ cmatei Lycurgus brown``` newcup alvis m0prl Tristam Euthydemus` ASau qsun_ peccu1 galdor Odin- Axioplase_ rtoym EyesIsServer espadrine gf3 borodon fe[nl]ix pokes_ 16:10:10 -!- names: drysdam devhost foocraft d2biG kanru_ gemelen r126f timb sbryant antifuchs Yamazaki-kun emit boyscared MikeSeth tychoish mtd PuffTheMagic ft vhost- djinni` anthracite TristamWrk setheus dlowe cmm H4ns xristos austinh tempire OliverUv froggey tritchey jiacobucci Vivitron elliottjohnson Yahovah_ Kovensky zbigniew nuba pkhuong ch077179 guaqua phadthai noth1ng quasisane ``Erik C-Keen mal cpape Aethaeryn yan_ r_takaishi p_l dmiles_afk Neronus stepnem 16:10:10 -!- names: felideon Xof_ yroeht peterhil` gffa Phoodus hugod niko segfault_ kleppari_ theBlackDragon dfox felipe Utkarsh howeyc jeekl Dodek a7p ghuntley theconartist __class__ df_ redline6561 _root_ msmith SHODAN lnostdal dcguru literal keltvek madnificent poindontcare shachaf tomaw __krappie cods luis drdo freiksenet derrida housel hyko DrForr Zhivago mgr 16:11:08 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:37 * *slime-events* 21478 Fundamental // * *inferior-lisp* 6049 Comint:run // * *Messages* 1212 Fundamental // %* *sldb clisp/0* 2846 sldb[4] // 16:11:39 * *slime-repl clisp* 118 REPL 16:11:56 The above are opened buffers when working with slime + emacs 16:12:05 Can you tell a little about them ? 16:12:13 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:12:54 No need 16:13:08 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:18 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:13:33 if I serve a file with hunchentoot using handle-static-file, should it be able to handle byte range requests? 16:13:56 i kind of got that impression, but it doesn't seem to be the case 16:14:00 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:14:58 I don't know either, if I wanted to find out I'd grep the manual or the code. 16:15:03 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 16:15:31 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:16:42 limetree: it should, and I would be disappointed if it didn't. 16:16:58 Especially since I'm a huge fan of hunchentoot 16:17:00 ok so what could be improved with ? (defun sum (list) (if list (+ (car list) (sum (rest list) ) ) 0 ) ) ? 16:17:24 paul424_: You should avoid a recursive solution 16:17:37 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.218] has joined #lisp 16:17:48 paul424_: Rememebr that CL doesn't guarantee that tail-recursive calls are optimisied away 16:18:12 paul424_: the proper solution is (reduce #'+ list). Or, if you want to be more explicit: (loop for x in list summing x) 16:18:37 *paul424_* tries to write his own reduce 16:18:57 paul424_: then use DOLIST, DO, or LOOP 16:19:01 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:19:08 or if you want to be seriously low-level: TAGBODY 16:19:14 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:29 loke: the code certainly seems to indicate it. i'm not sure what's wrong. 16:19:42 Content-Length is set to the full length of the file... 16:19:48 limetree: you man it indicates that it is indeed supposed to be supported? 16:19:54 ah 16:19:55 yes 16:20:00 limetree: fix it, and submit the changes 16:20:25 i'm not ruling out that i've messed up, yet :) 16:21:19 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:31 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:34 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-135-103.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:24:44 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 16:25:09 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:25:15 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:25:46 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:08 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:39 what setq changes the referenced list of a label ? That's not purly functional data language anymore ! ( immutable data structures ) ... 16:30:08 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:31:32 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:31:32 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:41 Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:33:08 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:08 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:33:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:35:09 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:36:34 repl 16:36:48 sorry, wrong channel 16:37:15 paul424_: no one has claimed CL to be a pure functional language 16:37:33 is there a reason why the copy-array function found at http://lemonodor.com/archives/000100.html adds extra elements at the end of the new array? 16:37:33 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:33 paul424_: CL is, if anything, a pragmatic language. You can use any programming style you want. 16:38:14 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:38 osa1 [~sinan@88.242.32.250] has joined #lisp 16:39:41 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:40:10 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:42:06 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:42:41 Harag: it shouldn't, but it's not a very good way to copy arrays anyway 16:43:21 for one, it doesn't produce a simple-array on SBCL 16:44:04 eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has joined #lisp 16:44:04 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has quit [Changing host] 16:44:04 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:44:09 so would it be better to copy it element by element? 16:44:34 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 16:44:36 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has joined #lisp 16:45:09 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:45:26 dumb question why list ( 1 2 3 4 5 ) nor ' ( 1 2 3 4 5 ) does not eval at main level to what I would suppose it would :D ? 16:46:01 paul424_: what do you mean "not eval"? 16:46:47 Harag: something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/127675 should do 16:46:52 sorry , does not return 16:47:05 s expressions ... are executing ... running or what ? 16:47:19 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:47:20 they can be evaluated 16:47:22 decaf [~mehmet@95.10.188.28] has joined #lisp 16:47:51 paul424_: sexps is a data representation format. There is no inherent concept of "exeuting" or "evaluating" them. 16:47:56 -!- decaf is now known as Guest13695 16:48:12 Now, sexps can be used to represent Lisp code, but that's actually not a property of sexps, but of Lisp as a language 16:48:26 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.107.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:49:10 -!- Guest13695 is now known as decaf 16:49:17 -!- decaf [~mehmet@95.10.188.28] has quit [Changing host] 16:49:17 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 16:49:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:02 thanx stassats 16:50:10 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:10 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:50:25 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:25 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:50:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:50:31 loke: are you sure .... hmm for example lambda calculus is defined in very uhh syntax way ... that is of the lambda terms rewriting. BUt ok 16:51:03 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:15 so 5 evals to 5 ... but ( 1 2 ) nor '( 1 2 ) not to ( 1 2 ) why so ? 16:51:28 paul424_: RIght, but S-expressions as a concept is just a way of representing data 16:51:37 (1 2) cannot be evaluated 16:51:46 There are several languages that are defined in terms of S-expressions. For example Common Lisp and Scheme 16:51:51 paul424_: did you try to actually evaluate '(1 2)? 16:52:02 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:41 paul424_: I'm basically just asking you to think about what you mean when you use certain terms. It may feel superficial to you, but it really does help communication. 16:52:47 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:52:52 CL-USER> '(1 2) // No value 16:53:04 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:53:10 have you tried pressing Enter? 16:53:22 I did 16:53:52 is paste.lisp.org broken? it gives a blank screen when i submit (it did the same the last time...) 16:53:53 then you pressed the wrong Enter, or you're not telling us something 16:54:01 like maybe your lisp is not connected or borked 16:54:06 haha 16:54:16 limetree: no, it's not broken 16:54:26 here's your paste http://paste.lisp.org/display/127676 16:54:29 limetree: half broken. The paste will show on the list. 16:54:42 oh 16:54:59 just don't specify any channel and it will work better 16:55:27 ok. well, there is an example of where i serve a static file, but requesting a byte range seems to do nothing 16:55:44 huh ok the clisp from terminal works ok ... but not the interactive emacs buffer that is *slime-repl clisp* 16:55:50 solussd [~solussd@h229.214.31.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:04 so its not equivalent of clisp interpreter 16:56:05 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:09 paul424_: that's not the buffer you're supposed to use 16:56:28 loke: but it is 16:56:32 ah yes 16:56:39 sorry. I was thinking of inferior lisp 16:56:45 forget what i said 16:56:50 well, *slime-repl sbcl* would be better, but that will do to 16:56:55 o 16:57:02 stassats: agreed 16:57:18 CLISP is very popular with beginners though. Only reason why that I can think of is that it uses readline by default 16:57:24 perhaps SBCL should do the same... 16:57:36 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 16:57:40 (well, not readline since it's GPL, but you know what I mean) 16:57:41 SBCL is fine without vain beginners 16:57:56 and then there's linedit 16:58:04 well yeah 16:58:31 sbcl ? 16:58:33 but still. with SBCL, beginners might understand that setq'ing an unbound variable is not a good idea 16:58:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:57 Vinnipeg [~zaytsev_k@95.141.197.14] has joined #lisp 16:59:25 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:31 Hell, I had that belief for like two decades (during which, I arguably didn't write much Lisp code), but it wasn't until I decided to get serious with Lisp (i.e. after QL came out) that I started really understaing these things. 16:59:53 paul424_: yes, SBCL. http://www.sbcl.org/ 17:00:19 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:19 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:00:19 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:01:08 loke: so wrong with my buffer , return to store and claim money back ? 17:01:16 so what's* 17:01:37 paul424_: can you paste the contents of *inferior-lisp* buffer to paste.lisp.org? 17:02:30 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:02:36 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 17:03:32 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:08 here : http://paste.lisp.org/display/127678 17:05:17 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:05:41 paul424_: now, annotate it with the contents of *slime-events* buffer 17:06:25 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:06:25 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:06:25 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:07:37 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 17:08:33 Dephmus [~Dephmus@41.23.158.138] has joined #lisp 17:09:10 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:09:13 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:10:30 sigjuice [~sigjuice@c-71-204-168-88.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:25 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:32 here : http://paste.lisp.org/display/127679 17:11:41 that's not an annotation, but ok 17:12:38 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 17:12:58 *paul424_* looks into dictionary , he is not native 17:13:30 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:30 neither am i, but there's a link on the paste saying "annotate" 17:14:01 -!- Vinnipeg [~zaytsev_k@95.141.197.14] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 17:14:46 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 17:15:13 paul424_: ok, i don't see that you're typing '(1 2) in the repl and pressing enter, i see that you do C-x C-e on it 17:15:20 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:20 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:21 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:15:33 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:15:39 huh wait .. 17:16:37 I work with . * *slime-repl clisp* 389 REPL 17:16:48 -!- solussd [~solussd@h229.214.31.71.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Quit: solussd] 17:18:39 ah what a bad nasty f**** buffer now works 17:18:51 *paul424_* hits the buffer 17:20:40 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:05 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 17:21:23 eno 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apparently they are sent as, e.g., bytes=100-200 18:11:09 why that : does not work ? (cons (car `(1) ) (cdr `(2))) 18:11:33 at least firefox and chrome does so when fetching media files. 18:12:07 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:12:07 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsefzxhdtktkaqab] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:12:07 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:12:07 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:12:07 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:12:07 -!- NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:12:07 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 18:12:09 paul424_: What do you expect as output? 18:12:20 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 18:12:30 huh ... (1) > 18:12:33 (1) ? 18:12:37 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:12:39 paul424_: read the book already 18:12:44 Practical Common Lisp 18:12:52 What he says 18:12:54 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:56 good advice 18:13:11 mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has joined #lisp 18:13:19 ok ok 18:13:25 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:26 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hsefzxhdtktkaqab] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 NNshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 18:14:12 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:12 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:12 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:15:04 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 18:17:25 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 18:18:49 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:19 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20:59 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:22:04 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:05 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:22:05 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:22:21 huh slime seems to get choppy ... when typing there is little pause ... what could be the reason ? 18:22:26 eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has joined #lisp 18:22:53 very large buffer, very slow computer, or you're on amphetamines 18:22:56 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD939.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:07 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:23:07 -!- eroen [~eroen@188.113.80.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:23:33 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 18:23:43 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:54 n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@178.46.15.228] has joined #lisp 18:24:20 hahha 18:24:25 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-146-202-89.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:24:46 wait those powder I added to the coffe .... that's not sweet ... 18:24:53 this* 18:26:04 stassats: grr all the expressions I thought were good but the slime ... corrupted. 18:26:46 stassats: the book you provided is nice but the vast and novice-alike ... 18:27:03 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 18:27:06 I have the same problem with slime 18:27:13 what does "novice-alike" mean? 18:27:19 jewel: what problem? 18:27:19 sometimes clearing the buffer helps 18:27:24 sometimes it's the lisp 18:27:26 mon_key [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 18:27:28 -!- mon_key [~user@74-143-70-82.static.insightbb.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:27:28 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 18:27:30 jewel: do you use clisp too? 18:27:52 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 18:27:53 a lot of latency when entering stuff on the repl or autocompletion 18:27:57 I use sbcl 18:28:25 jewel: what slime version? 18:28:28 zmv [~zmv@186.204.150.191] has joined #lisp 18:29:40 stassats: ok ok never mind , btw when somene ask for intro better give him short version : http://clisp.hg.sourceforge.net/hgweb/clisp/clisp/raw-file/tip/doc/LISP-tutorial.txt or http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/aim-8/index.html 18:30:20 paul424_: have you read either of those? 18:30:32 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@178.46.15.228] has quit [Quit: Топинамбур?] 18:30:39 I am through :D 18:30:47 because if you did, it means they're either very bad or too short 18:31:12 stassats` cause those were some definitions I wanted to check 18:31:17 last changelog entry is 2011-05-09 Nikodemus Siivola 18:31:27 and i won't advice on them in any case, you should read Practical Common Lisp if you want to program in Common Lisp 18:31:36 Practical Common Lisp is by far the best book around as an introduction to Common Lisp. 18:31:45 jewel: that's oldish, but shouldn't have the those problems 18:31:46 as a modern, hands-on one, that is 18:31:51 jewel: can you reproduce it? 18:31:57 Though I did not read PAIP 18:32:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:32:12 Anyway, off to the plane 18:32:50 slime is slow when playing with ( ) :D ... 18:33:05 -!- anthracite [anthracite@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:eaaa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:33:52 I haven't tried to reproduce it, but it seems to happen after long hacking sessions 18:34:00 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:34:02 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:34:16 jewel: when you do and i'm here, contact me 18:34:41 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:34:52 stassats, sure 18:35:02 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:35:19 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 18:35:20 anthracite [anthracite@2a01:7e00::f03c:91ff:fedf:eaaa] has joined #lisp 18:35:28 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:35:33 jewel: err you mean my quest ? 18:35:42 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:20 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD939.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:27 sousousou [~bcarmer@97-119-197-2.hlna.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:52 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.242.32.250] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:40:57 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:41:11 -!- paul424_ is now known as paul424 18:42:18 osa1 [~sinan@78.175.210.69] has joined #lisp 18:42:37 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:42:52 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 18:43:00 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has left #lisp 18:43:08 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 18:44:15 kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 18:48:35 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 18:48:37 -!- knobo [~bohmer@80.202.64.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:48:52 knobo [~bohmer@80.202.64.14] has joined #lisp 18:49:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:28 -!- paul424 [~chatzilla@apn-77-114-242-23.dynamic.gprs.plus.pl] has quit [Quit: BRB] 18:50:37 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-mxwaczseexhjvqap] has joined #lisp 18:50:43 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 18:50:58 /part 18:51:01 -!- alvis [~user@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 18:51:12 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 18:51:46 Jollygood [~Jollygood@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:33 i don't believe there's some equation which works like (case x (0 10)(1 8)(2 16)) 18:53:52 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:53:56 without 10, (expt 2 (+ 2 x)) would work 18:55:48 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:48 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:55:48 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:01:15 does usocket support non-blocking sockets? 19:02:32 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.105] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.4.1] 19:07:45 rlb3` [~user@204.62.13.112] has joined #lisp 19:10:29 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:10:55 cool, i managed to fix a number of bugs in hunchentoots handling of byte ranges 19:11:02 is anyone here involved? 19:11:11 limetree: H4ns is 19:11:21 ok 19:11:29 stassats`: I can fit a polynomial through any finite number of points (: 19:11:48 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:12:01 pkhuong: the goal was to have as little characters as possible, i ended up with (elt'(10 8 16)x) 19:12:09 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.52.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:31 -!- knobo [~bohmer@80.202.64.14] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:13:28 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:13:34 ok, can anyone check my reasoning? (format nil "~6,'0b" #\Space) shouldn't produce "00000 " 19:13:39 (it does so on Clisp) 19:13:55 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 19:14:08 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:15:03 22.3.2.2 says "If arg is not an integer, it is printed in ~A format and decimal base." 19:15:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 19:16:17 lispworks does too 19:16:46 which means that i can't use this in practice, bummer 19:16:54 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819287.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:19:00 ApeShot [~user@rrcs-24-106-184-123.se.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:51 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.28] has joined #lisp 19:21:00 paul0 [~paul0@189.26.134.199.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:21:19 stassats`: it results in " " in sbcl 19:21:33 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.28] has quit [Client Quit] 19:21:34 thanks, but i'm aware of this 19:21:52 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.28] has joined #lisp 19:22:29 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.21.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:24:33 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:25:29 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 19:26:50 I'm having some trouble figuring out how readtables interact with packages 19:27:01 ApeShot: they're independent. 19:27:11 maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 19:27:32 pkhuong: so if I want asdf to build a package in the context of a completely fresh read-table, and a previously built package has modified the readtable, what is the idiom? 19:27:54 In this case, two libraries have conflicting uses of the same reader syntax extension 19:27:55 -!- maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:27:57 And it is causing trouble 19:28:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:28:08 zfx [~zfx@host109-156-16-183.range109-156.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:25 not sure there's an idiom yet. The libraries I use that include reader extensions have functions to enable/disable them. 19:28:33 ApeShot: use named-readtables for that 19:28:34 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 19:28:55 stassats`: I've seen a bit of that in places. How does it work? 19:29:03 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@97-119-197-2.hlna.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sousousou] 19:29:16 similarly to packages 19:29:52 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:52 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-133-209.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:29:52 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:30:00 I gather I can get a copy of a fresh read table vai (copy-readtable nil) 19:30:04 you write (named-readtables:in-readtable :name) at the beginning of a file, just as (in-package :name) 19:30:25 How/where should I declare these named read-tables 19:30:51 you read the documentation to named-readtables 19:31:25 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-141-115-85.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:31:36 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:31:40 stassats`: good idea 19:32:21 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:02 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-55-134.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:34:22 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:55 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 19:34:55 (loop for (a b) on '(1 2 3 4) .. ) <- wasn't there a way to exclude (4 nil) on last iteration? 19:35:56 kennyd_: (loop for (a b . rest) on '(1 2 3 4) while rest do (print (list a b))) 19:36:19 -!- eulyix [~charles@2.26.72.138] has quit [Quit: To iterate is human, to recurse divine] 19:36:21 right thanks 19:36:40 but what do you really want? 19:36:49 -!- Dephmus [~Dephmus@41.23.158.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:39:34 and rather (loop for (a b . rest) on '(1 2 3 4) do (print (list a b)) while rest) 19:40:13 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:17 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:26 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:40:30 stassats`: not sure that's standard LOOP. 19:40:43 it is 19:41:30 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:41:33 -!- retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:42:25 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:43 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5947a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:37 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 19:44:07 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-141-115-85.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:45:10 -!- Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:45:39 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 19:46:30 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.254.38] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:47:13 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.3.40] has joined #lisp 19:49:30 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:51:12 -!- Jollygood [~Jollygood@cpe-075-176-001-037.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Bye] 19:52:23 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:54:01 eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has joined #lisp 19:54:01 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.133.209] has quit [Changing host] 19:54:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:54:09 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:55:53 Ashii [~Ashii@c-0657e255.246-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:56:10 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:57:31 retupmoca [~retupmoca@adsl-99-181-132-232.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:06 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:03:02 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.36.105] has joined #lisp 20:03:57 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:48 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:21 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:13 pnathan [~Adium@64.134.157.37] has joined #lisp 20:09:10 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:09:20 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:11:42 YokYok [~david@AClermont-Ferrand-651-1-56-114.w90-0.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:13:08 pnq [~nick@ACA35487.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:29 coder` [~user@p54918FB1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:07 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:23 Praise [~Fat@cl-447.trn-01.it.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:27 -!- Praise [~Fat@cl-447.trn-01.it.sixxs.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:17:27 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 20:17:36 sepi [cgwnza7713@hcl-club.lu] has joined #lisp 20:17:51 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:18:18 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.134.157.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:18:45 Is there a way to bind unset keyword parameters from outside of a function like with a let and a dynamic variable? 20:20:02 make the default value of each parameter a dynamic variable; e.g. &key (a *foo*) 20:20:13 but what's the point ? 20:22:23 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA35487.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:24:44 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:25:19 fe[nl]ix: hah, I just figured that out by myself :) Thanks though! 20:25:47 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:26:15 fe[nl]ix: hmm, good question, I'm not sure I need it anymore ^^ 20:29:03 fe[nl]ix: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127690 20:29:28 I could just as well explicitely pass the parameters to the G and M functions 20:30:45 why not wrap those parameters in a struct ? 20:31:41 Isn't G-code that code used by CNC machines 20:31:51 fe[nl]ix: I'd like to call the functions M and G like I do in the test funciton 20:32:11 Quadrescence: exactly. But it is also used for 3d printers 20:32:16 right 20:32:26 That's my usecase 20:32:34 sepi, are you intending on making a G-code library of sorts? 20:33:17 Quadrescence: well, just a simple macro assembler 20:33:31 and then build an stl slicer on top of that 20:33:39 sepi, this guy wrote some G-code stuff in Lisp http://ruinwesen.com/blog?id=387 20:33:51 Quadrescence: hah, I remember 20:34:05 I've actually talked to him about this a few years ago ^^ 20:34:08 sepi, http://code.google.com/p/cl-mill/ 20:34:13 I completely forgot about it 20:34:59 Quadrescence: thanks for the reminder :D 20:35:14 sepi, no problem. I just remember seeing those a couple days ago. 20:35:59 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:17 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 20:36:36 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:36:55 Quadrescence: He's crazy, in a positive sense :) 20:38:23 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129205241.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 20:42:18 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:34 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-160-242-252.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:09 Guthur [~user@host86-160-242-252.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:49 -!- kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has left #lisp 20:48:07 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:51:24 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 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23:13:46 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Quit: funikuli funikulaaa tafra yapma yaa funikuli funikulaa] 23:14:31 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 23:18:13 kruhft [~user@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:10 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 23:25:01 xplorer00 [~xplorer00@141-136-210-148.dsl.iskon.hr] has joined #lisp 23:26:09 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:28:14 ysph [~user@mobile-166-147-125-035.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:52 fe[nl]ix: here is a boiled down test case that demonstrates the behavior: https://gist.github.com/1805008 23:29:53 it is based on the iolib tutorial, modified to use (or perhaps abuse) the library in the same manner as the dbus lib 23:32:18 thanks 23:33:09 btw, the other day's test code you pasted 23:33:23 you said it triggers the bug on your machine within 10 minutes 23:33:45 I let it run for a whole day without any problem 23:34:14 what version of iolib are you using ? 23:34:58 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 23:35:25 0.7.3, i looked at git blame and couldn't see where relevant parts had changed since, but certainly i could have missed something 23:36:00 elatedpixel [~elatedpix@cpe-174-097-005-182.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:36:19 try HEAD too 23:36:30 okay, will do 23:40:09 tomodo [~tomodo@gateway/tor-sasl/tomodo] has joined #lisp 23:40:33 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.163.101] has joined #lisp 23:40:45 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:44 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.163.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:45:56 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:47:50 ccorn [~ccorn@dhcp-077-249-189-185.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 23:59:49 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.109] has joined #lisp