00:00:27 Posterdati: I will 00:00:42 ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:00:44 TDT: no. 00:01:13 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:01:42 Xach: k 00:04:45 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:04:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:09 anyone know if the cl-yacc author shows up here? 00:05:13 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:05:50 Ralith: only many many years ago 00:05:58 aw. 00:06:23 his site says he's got a C grammar for it and I am interested to see if he is sharing 00:06:51 *Xach* bets on email 00:07:01 *Ralith* shall. 00:08:19 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:08:40 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:32 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:10:45 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:00 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128000203.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:11:10 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.8] has joined #lisp 00:11:17 rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has joined #lisp 00:12:00 I am trying to expand my repl utilities (loaded by my init files) to include something that is implementation specific, but I am running into the problem 00:12:02 that e.g. SB-INTROSPECT is not yet loaded when .sbclrc is loaded 00:12:13 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:13:55 I intended to load and use the same utility system from all of my init files, so I am looking for a portable way avoid this issue 00:14:18 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-43-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:41 #+/#-? 00:15:49 Right, but when I am executing the #+sbcl form, the sbcl package which contains the functionality I need is not yet loaded by sbcl 00:18:08 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.158.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:02 -!- ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:20:48 -!- Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:20:48 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:20:48 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:20:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:23:25 Is it possible to just require it? 00:23:32 Does it effect features? 00:24:04 so here's a paste with the error, any suggestions? http://paste.lisp.org/display/127375 (re: require, it would be a pain with all those implementations but I suppose I could try) 00:28:22 require does not prevent the error 00:28:33 Vivitron: Sure it does. 00:28:43 Vivitron: It must precede your defun, though. 00:28:51 #+sbcl (require 'sb-introspect) should do the trick. 00:29:01 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:29:17 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:19 ah, I tried to jam the require within the function 00:29:51 pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has joined #lisp 00:32:20 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:32:21 because I am conditionalizing on each package implemented by swank it will mean 10 separate conditionalized require forms; I can do it of course, but if there is an alternative solution it might be better 00:32:44 implementation, rather than package 00:33:49 jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has joined #lisp 00:37:05 Vivitron: why do you have all these in .sbclrc file? don't they all have their own init files? 00:37:57 I am making a system that I intend to load from all of my init files 00:39:50 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-49.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:44 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.106] has joined #lisp 00:40:53 -!- pnathan [~Adium@75.87.255.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:41:25 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 00:42:57 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:45:12 fe[nl]ix: " maxm-: I'm quite a slow typist but I've never found it to be an impediment. there are only a few geniuses in the world for whom slow fingers would be a bottleneck." 00:45:17 ^-- This is a common misconception. Try this: http://steve-yegge.blogspot.com/2008/09/programmings-dirtiest-little-secret.html 00:49:35 -!- rgrau [~user@80.31.140.37] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:44 Hexstream: I'm not sure fe[nl]ix meant to imply that he couldn't touch-type at all 00:54:32 Ralith: I'm pretty sure he implied that touchtyping wasn't a necessary skill for serious programmers. 00:54:56 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:55:21 I keep meaning to do it 00:55:21 Unless the threshold for being considered a "genius" is very low. 00:55:23 sbryant, Xach, Ralith, thanks. The requires seem to work, I added them as an annotation for completeness. 00:55:42 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 00:55:57 but it's having to go back to go forward is problem 00:56:27 np 00:56:49 Hexstream: rather, I read the threshold he's considering "slow" somewhat higher. 00:56:50 Hexstream: i'd be inclined to believe fe[nl]ix, he's shown that he is a capable programmer. if he says he isn't limited by his typing speed, then i'd assume that he thinks on a high enough level, requiring less code. in lisp one might need much less code, in order to solve a complex problem. 00:57:12 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 00:59:05 that steve yegge is a fast-typer for sure. in twenty thousand words he says "fast typing is not so important". 00:59:22 madnificent: I think I think on a pretty high level, and I type ~70wpm, and I'm pretty sure I'd get a nice productivity boost from typing, say, twice as fast. I can only imagine I'd get a severe productivity loss from typing twice as slow... 01:00:21 decaf: You're a fast reader for sure, but did you actually understand what the article says?... I'm pretty sure it's not "fast typing is not so important". 01:01:35 I didn't read it all, I have better things to do :/ 01:02:12 Hexstream: maybe. however, more often than not i spend a lot of time thinking about the right solution for a problem. the moments in which i'm waiting for the text to appear on the screen take up less time than the moments on which i need to think (or should have thought). therefore, a 10% increase in thinking-speed would probably give me better results than typing faster. i'm a fairly fast typist (depending on the langu 01:02:12 to type 350 chars/min or more on dictated sentences and something in the range of 600 chars/min for texts i make up << and even now thinking took more time than writing). 01:02:59 decaf: i read it 2 years ago. my timeline owned yours 01:03:27 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-74-19.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:04:32 Guthur: The first step is getting the entire keyboard in your head. That just takes a few hours max. Doesn't matter if it takes you 25 seconds remembering where a key is before you can type it, next time it will take much less time... And then you type like this for everything for a week or 2, you'll be at 30wpm in no time. 01:04:46 unfortunately most of my job is staring at rrdtool output. no typing necessary. 01:05:01 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:05:07 arrsim [~user@ppp118-209-152-147.lns20.mel6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:31 i suck at typing numbers, and don't use the keypad often i notice .... 01:05:39 If you have a qwerty keyboard you can switch to dvorak, this will stop you from the really bad habit of looking down at the keyboard, as only 2 keys are in the same places... (and dvorak is far superior of course.) 01:05:52 Hexstream: habits are difficult to prevent, I type only with four fingers :) 01:05:53 other than that mediveval typing strength 01:06:11 i use both hands 01:06:41 wbooze: the numpad is slower for entering numbers than the top-row. you can use two hands for the top row. 01:07:04 madnificent i don't think so 01:07:17 i think the keypad is faster actually 01:07:17 wbooze: i can't express it clearer than that, make of it what you want. 01:07:51 yes yes i know the distance your hand travels or your fingers travel is shorter witht the top-row i know 01:08:13 but have you seen the cashiers ? 01:09:28 *madnificent* mumbles something about argumentation and hops on to lisp code instead 01:10:17 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2F1BE.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:12:01 Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-49.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:12:59 just did a quick online test 38wpm 1 mistake 01:13:33 not fast, but at least not pathetically slow 01:13:33 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:14:18 *p_l* is probably pathetically slow... 01:14:49 I don't look at the keyboard but I do make too many mistakes 01:15:06 which means I have to hit the backspace far too often 01:15:13 sometimes me too, but especially with numbers involved 01:15:15 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:15:32 and special keys and key-combos.... 01:15:46 I am good with the numpad 01:15:48 wbooze: have you seen one with chubby fingers? I had seen for three months, in the mirror. you do something when you really have to do. 01:16:12 type fast, or you'll be a bump. how is this sounds? 01:16:15 but I've found that if its alpha numeric text it is a pain to use the numpad 01:16:25 you have to move the right had too far 01:16:28 hand* 01:16:47 my problem would be if someone wanted to test me at their workstation... I haven't used anything other than a Thinkpad keyboard in ages... 01:16:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:03 ... and I typed that blind. Blind, because the lag stopped me from seeing it ^^; 01:17:18 yes but the with the top-row i have too many offby 1's 01:18:47 *Guthur* must sleep now 01:18:59 I'm really not getting to bed early enough 01:19:14 *Guthur* grumbles 01:19:21 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:20:22 heh 01:20:24 me too 01:20:32 it's the start of the new semester! 01:22:42 meh, I wish hunchentoot's documentation was just a ltitle better 01:24:41 I wish everything's documentation was a bit better 01:24:53 I wish I was a bit better 01:25:20 I do too 01:26:02 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@pool-71-97-2-15.dfw.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:27:34 galdor: nevermind. I looked it up. Was wondering if the lisp-zmq CFFI requirements still held. 01:27:35 Yeah..I'm very confused on the need for easy-acceptor and acceptor at this point. heh, was using code I wrote about a year ago, and things changed a lot in that time period. 01:27:58 Looks like it. As QL's CFFI hasn't updated. Which is probably because CFFI hasn't made a new release recently. 01:28:04 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:38:56 pnathan [~Adium@50-37-95-210.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:32 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:42:47 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 01:43:35 -!- pnathan [~Adium@50-37-95-210.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:46:23 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:58:45 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Quit: fünikülii fünikulaaaa kappa yapma yaa fünikülii fünikulaaa] 02:02:50 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 02:05:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-137-152.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:05:23 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-165.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:08 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:08:48 wanderingelf [4817e03b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.59] has joined #lisp 02:11:28 Today is the first time I've interacted with such a luser on #lisp. I wonder how often they appear, and how many learn. 02:13:18 LiamH [~healy@173-165-155-170-charleston.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:33 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 02:13:53 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-jirercroiwzzkbec] has joined #lisp 02:14:08 luser? 02:24:40 'sup #lisp 02:24:49 Evening 02:27:04 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.107] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:27:29 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.107] has joined #lisp 02:30:19 gko [~gko@27.53.3.205] has joined #lisp 02:32:33 TDT: one who loses and uses 02:34:39 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-187.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:35:38 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:08 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.58.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:41:03 eh 02:41:34 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-174-62-210-182.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:43:26 Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483AF8C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:58 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483A027.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:46:09 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:39 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:53:47 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:54:06 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:15 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:55:17 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:56:22 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:56:22 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:58:06 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 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[~teggi@123.21.156.9] has joined #lisp 03:34:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.145.151.229] has quit [Quit: Bye] 03:34:36 -!- wanderingelf [4817e03b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.59] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:38:36 -!- LiamH [~healy@173-165-155-170-charleston.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:39:15 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 03:39:37 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 03:41:55 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:43 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 03:44:41 -!- TDT [~user@bouncer.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 03:50:56 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-73-219.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:54:31 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-141-34-117.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:55:48 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 04:00:07 -!- kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:50 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:33 -!- _pw_ [~user@125.34.49.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:06:41 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:11:21 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:13:01 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-66-108-59-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:34 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 04:20:50 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:17 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-66-108-59-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 04:23:13 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:48 I am told that Lisp is the best programming language. 04:24:14 I want Lisp to prove it to me. 04:24:25 it won't 04:24:28 xD 04:24:49 It won't? 04:24:57 why would it even care? 04:25:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.176] has joined #lisp 04:25:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.176] has quit [Changing host] 04:25:07 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:25:31 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:25:37 lol 04:25:39 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-220.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:26:04 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: Heaven isnt a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.] 04:26:31 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:39 Well, I intend to make yet another tiling window manager, using Lisp. I learn languages best by actually doing fairly large projects in them (several thousands of lines of code). Idk why, but I guess it provides motivation. 04:27:01 I was just wondering the quickest way to get started in clisp 04:27:25 or you could just install stumpwm and hack on that. 04:27:26 I would recommend using QL 04:27:26 I've used emacs Lisp for configuring emacs, and played a bit with scheme, so I don't *not* know what Lisp is 04:27:30 and then go for it 04:27:53 schmx: I intend to have a novel paradigm for how my window manager is going to work. 04:28:13 that's cool. What is this novel paradigm? 04:28:35 Aethaeryn: personally I'd recommend going with ccl or sbcl instead of clisp. and then using quicklisp and SLIME for emacs. 04:28:49 Aethaeryn: and I guess checking out gigamonkey's book. 04:29:01 well, I shouldn't say novel paradigm, I already take that back. It's probably been done before, sorry. 04:29:16 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 04:29:39 There's about 100 different tiling window managers, so I can't say it's novel. 04:29:44 you still might find some interesting stuff in stumpwm for figuring out how to play X from lisp. 04:29:59 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:30:15 But basically, I intend to make the terminals first class citizens. 04:30:32 (defclass terminal ...) 04:30:46 *schmx* is wildly amused. 04:30:50 lol 04:31:42 Aethaeryn: there are plenty of resources available: cliki.net, planet.lisp.org, common-lisp.net 04:31:43 Well, I use a tiling terminal app, and I was thinking... "What if when I type something like 'firefox', instead of firefox popping up in a new window, it pops 'over' the terminal that launched it?" 04:31:47 Aethaeryn: I'm not really sure what you mean by terminal or first class citizen. But go foor it. I think PCL (dat dere link) is a good place to start. 04:32:17 Essentially, you manage everything through tiling terminals, but when you want a GUIed app (which is basically necessary for a lot of tasks these days) the GUIed app fits in just like a terminal. 04:32:25 schmx is right about PCL, it's hard to say enough good things about the book. 04:32:28 So I am going to start first by building a terminal emulator 04:32:44 sbryant: but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try. ;) 04:32:53 *schmx* laughs. 04:33:04 gigamonkey: I've bought two copies 04:33:11 So I said lot with my wallet ;) 04:33:16 Aethaeryn: I thought you'd have to map a new window for firefox. But maybe I don't recall correctly. 04:33:24 Excellent--that's the spirit! 04:33:33 Yeah gotta have one for home and one for the office 04:33:43 and one for the car 04:33:43 gigamonkey: Is that your book? 04:33:56 Nice, I'll have to grab PCL. Just read the chapter outline and one of my projects vaguely aligned with a practical example. 04:34:10 Aethaeryn: yes 04:34:12 gigamonkey: speaking of PCL any plans for an updated version? 04:34:20 schmx: The easiest way to do it, I think, would be to actually just have the window pop up "over" the terminal covering it, and simply stay in sync with the underlying terminal when you resize the tile, etc. 04:34:26 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host83.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 04:34:39 sbryant: Nope. Every time the urge comes over me I contemplate how much I never want to work with Apress again and it passes. 04:34:46 :( 04:34:50 Fair enough. 04:34:50 Aethaeryn: oh ok. Then I misunderstood what you meant with firefox not popping up in a new window. 04:35:08 schmx: Well, it's all about what it looks like to the end user. 04:35:13 :-P 04:35:18 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-220.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 04:35:27 Aethaeryn: so you pretty much want tiles with "tabs", eh? 04:35:29 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.107.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:36:05 I guess. 04:36:21 sounds like fun. 04:36:43 I have some memories of the CLX documenattion being a bit.. lacking. :) 04:36:45 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:37:18 When you type "$ firefox\n" it'll put Firefox where the terminal was, at the same size/etc. and then you can "detatch" firefox and put it in another spot too if you want... 04:38:42 Is there already a terminal emulator library or something along those lines? 04:40:27 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.41.50] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:40:44 luoluoluo [Administra@113.247.6.206] has joined #lisp 04:40:50 Not that I know of 04:42:26 Okay, then I suppose I will start by writing a terminal. 04:43:02 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:43:47 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:44:43 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-66-108-59-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:46 cl-ncurses ? 04:48:20 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.123] has joined #lisp 04:49:14 Aethaeryn: clfswm - window manager? 04:49:25 If Lisp started out mainly as an AI language, do I run any risk of accidentally creating a sentient program if I make my clisp program too large? 04:50:21 Always. 04:51:01 What is the standard procedure if that happens? 04:51:29 Try not to piss it off 04:51:43 then, prepare for WAR 04:51:55 Aethaeryn: here's a thing. clisp generally refers to a specific common lisp implemantation. So unless you're actually using `clisp` you might want to just type lisp. Or there will be confusing and upsetness. 04:52:02 oh 04:52:15 Aethaeryn: standard procedure is to pick tic-tac-toe and not thermonuclear war. 04:52:31 schmx: But thermonuclear war sounds fun. tic-tac-toe is lame. :-( 04:52:44 You learn a few things and then you can never lose, only draw at worst. 04:52:58 You mean only draw. 04:53:01 you can never win the other one though. 04:53:49 schmx: sorry, the Fedora package I installed was 'clisp' and I'm a lazy typist 04:54:07 ah cools :) 04:54:16 there's "CL" 04:54:19 personally I'd recommend sbcl and/or ccl. But each to his own :) 04:54:23 ^ 04:54:40 why ? 04:54:40 So how does one enter slime mode in emacs? 04:54:53 M-x slime 04:55:00 [No match] 04:55:09 Aethaeryn: install Quicklisp 04:55:14 install quicklisp slime helper 04:55:38 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 04:56:10 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:56:15 lobo_d_b: Well for one thing I am under the impression that #lisp has more users of those than clisp, so it is easier to get help if it is something outside of the common bit of lisp. 04:56:19 And turn on slime fancy 04:56:53 Demosthenes [~demo@m9a2c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:06 schmx ok thanks 04:57:25 I'm not sure anyone understands how the clisp debugger actually works. :) 04:59:42 ah, Fedora also has sbcl 05:00:49 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:13 hmm... steel bank common lisp 05:02:50 Sounds like it'd be too fortress-like for the Skynet I accidentally create while programming my terminal. 05:03:40 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-220.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 05:04:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-220.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:04:48 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-66-108-59-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:06:16 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m9a2c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:38 Demosthenes [~demo@m9a2c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 05:08:34 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 05:09:01 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 05:15:45 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:16:09 -!- hang [~hang@112.152.81.14] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:18:16 Aethaeryn: these AI jokes. we haven't heard 'em before ;) 05:18:33 ugh there's this idiot in the emacs channel named qDor 05:18:38 *qDot 05:18:51 schmx: Oh, cool, I better copyright them then. 05:19:15 he made an emacs mode which attaches to a vibrator and masturbates the user when one finished tasks on a to do list, what a loser 05:19:19 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:19:50 *Aethaeryn* looks at the overlap between #lisp and #emacs 05:19:55 so why are you telling this to us, diginet ? 05:20:11 because he's talking right now 05:20:26 oh, good, it's on Github 05:20:28 so why would we care? 05:20:32 thanks for advertising it to us. 05:20:33 talk about an egomaniac, he has a who fucking site devoted to his shit 05:20:42 *whole 05:20:54 because it makes me mad...and emacs is vaguely related to lisp 05:21:00 diginet: Most people who program are egomaniacs. 05:21:13 diginet: well go rant about it somewhere else, please. 05:21:13 this guy takes it to an entirely different level 05:21:20 okay fine 05:24:35 miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-156-99.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 05:27:09 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-153-29.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:40 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:29:10 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.107] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:30:07 -!- luoluoluo [Administra@113.247.6.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:32:22 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-212.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:32:32 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:51 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 05:33:40 teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has joined #lisp 05:34:25 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:35:11 -!- wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:37:40 kami``` [~user@p57A2AE0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:40 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:02 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:40:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:40:47 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:40:56 -!- kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:41:19 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 05:42:05 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 05:45:25 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 05:54:28 two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:42 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl20-196-106.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:57:43 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:59:54 -!- benny [~benny@i577A12EF.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:02:28 ltaoist [~mo@14.113.204.15] has joined #lisp 06:04:40 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 06:05:23 [referring back to diginet's comments from 40 min ago] 06:05:34 He can't be talking about none other than Xah Lee. 06:05:39 no 06:05:42 qDot 06:05:48 I know who Xah lee is 06:06:00 qDot is, just...ugh 06:06:19 apparently, all you have to do, to get a speech at carnegie mellon is masturbate and make a website about it 06:06:26 Please stop talking. 06:06:35 http://hackaday.com/2011/10/16/join-the-pen15-club-with-a-vibrator-shield/ 06:10:01 lol 06:10:04 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:12:10 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:13:11 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:14:10 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:15:32 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:16:49 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:21:18 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 06:23:25 does anone know a shorter way than (do ((nums nil) (i 1 (1+ i))) ((> i 10) (apply #'+ nums)) (push (expt i 2) nums)) 06:23:41 not with loop i mean 06:23:49 just ordinary do 06:24:46 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:26:03 i tried (+ (expt i 2)) in the result form, without success ofc.....i'm so dumb 06:26:15 i got 121 always 06:26:55 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 06:27:48 Why not use loop? It'd be much clearer. 06:27:59 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:28:15 yes, yes, i don't intend to throw loop away, it was just i wanted to understand do fully.... 06:29:12 You don't need to collect the numbers in a list first. Just add the current to the running sum. 06:29:20 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-187.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:29:36 how ? 06:29:52 i tried it, and failed 06:30:43 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.31.44] has joined #lisp 06:30:56 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 06:31:01 current requires a place i think 06:31:38 (do ((total 0 (+ total (expt i 2))) (i 1 (1+ i))) ((> i 10) total))? 06:33:03 + 11^2 is ofc 121 just 06:33:15 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:33:26 aaaah 06:39:12 ok thank you very much, i didn't get i could put that in the update form 06:40:10 sunmix [~user@223.206.39.64] has joined #lisp 06:40:18 wbooze: so I guess the next task is to see how different the code is that gets generated by the two versions.. :) 06:41:08 kanru` [~user@118-163-10-188.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:42 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:41:52 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:31 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:42:51 aaah, psetq 06:43:06 -!- pjb is now known as Guest82931 06:43:27 -!- Guest82931 is now known as pjb 06:45:05 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 06:45:49 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:14 wahahaha 06:46:57 800 to 900 proc cycles in both cases and no consing 06:47:06 upto i being 10000000000000000000000 or so 06:47:08 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:16 nostoi [~nostoi@197.Red-80-39-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:59 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:48:02 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:48:22 so is that bad? 06:49:32 no it's good 06:49:47 no overhead of using a list either.... 06:50:07 smart compiler? 06:50:32 jep 06:50:35 lol 06:52:08 wbooze: check out DISASSEMBLE 06:54:00 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-220.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:54:02 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 06:54:14 waahahahahaha 06:54:17 got killed 06:54:31 disassembling for i so big was a no go tho 06:55:11 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:56:17 tho i started sbcl with 1024 megs and control stack size 4 megs 06:56:32 maybe it was still not sufficient 06:56:52 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:57:59 isn't there a approx how much the expansion err, dissassembly will take ? 06:59:59 Yes. Given a good compiler, it's O(n). 07:00:04 n being the size of the source. 07:00:20 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:01:20 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-220.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:03:29 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:34 no using of disk space, when space gets scarce ? 07:04:24 You can do that. 07:04:35 hmmmmm ok 07:04:45 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 07:05:00 You could split a big program into several different packages, each in its own .fasl file, and load one fasl file, run part of the program, then delete the package and load the other .fasl file, etc. 07:05:34 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:05:57 But given that I have 24 GB of RAM, I'd need a very big program before needing doing that... 07:06:17 hmmmm, that's one way, i thought maybe something like mmap implemented in lisp 07:06:18 -!- espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2477.res.insa-lyon.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:06:24 or using it 07:06:39 or is it already ? 07:06:40 mmap is rather coarse... 07:06:55 Better use the garbage collector at a finer granularity. 07:07:25 haaaaa, ok 07:07:53 didn't look at gc options yet 07:08:11 I mean, the GC works at a finer granularity than mmap. 07:09:09 The GC can collect a single CONS cell! You couldn't mmap single cons cells for long. 07:09:27 hmmm 07:11:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-212.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:12:01 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:12:42 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:16:07 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@78.234.200.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:16:36 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:17:15 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 07:18:03 mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 07:18:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 07:18:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:18:27 -!- BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:19:15 homie: I generally recommend storing large amounts of data in files, and designing stream processors. 07:19:25 ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has joined #lisp 07:19:47 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@197.Red-80-39-204.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:19:51 homie: This tends to scale better than storing everything in memory, and can still take advantage of spare memory via os-level file caching, reducing the benefit of mmap. 07:20:10 If you really need random-access, on the other hand ... 07:20:48 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 07:23:19 ok thanks for all the advice 07:24:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:24:55 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:28:28 ZabaQ1 [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has joined #lisp 07:30:01 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.31.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:31:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-134-247.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:02 -!- ZabaQ1 [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has quit [Client Quit] 07:31:14 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:34:07 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:35:02 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:35:26 am0c_ [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 07:35:47 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:48 good morning 07:36:08 The_third_bug [~The_third@78.234.200.168] has joined #lisp 07:36:09 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 07:36:47 -!- am0c_ is now known as am0c 07:40:35 gensym [~timo@fw-office.allied-internet.ag] has joined #lisp 07:40:41 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-14-16.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:47:03 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:21 -!- The_third_bug [~The_third@78.234.200.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:50:42 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:00 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:48 morning milleneuve 08:01:30 mishoo_ [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has joined #lisp 08:02:48 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-138-220.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: none] 08:03:07 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-165.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill_] 08:05:13 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-165.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:07 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 08:09:04 splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 08:09:25 -!- Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:10:10 kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:12:30 morning 08:13:41 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:13:46 teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has joined #lisp 08:15:50 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:01 ehu [~ehuels@62.140.137.80] has joined #lisp 08:17:09 Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:21 evening 08:17:45 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:18:00 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:18:50 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-174.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:21:31 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-220.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:27:34 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-174.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 08:28:09 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:28:22 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-66-108-59-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 08:28:22 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-66-108-59-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 08:28:41 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:30:16 good morning everyone 08:30:42 morning Blkt. What's new and parenthetically exciting? 08:31:43 well, I'm studying how to implement a communication protocol to put a thing I wrote in cloud environment 08:31:49 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:32:02 but I don't know much about network applications or cloud 08:32:08 so, it's quite exciting 08:32:17 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 08:32:59 Enjoy the excitement! In six months there will be two competing frameworks. In 12 it'll be such a solved problem no one thinks about it... 08:35:02 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:35:30 ahahah 08:39:02 teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has joined #lisp 08:39:07 -!- Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 08:39:12 Blkt: If you can abstract your API to be GET/POST/PUT on URIs then RESTAS provides an easy starting point. 08:39:29 -!- k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:40:07 And RESTAS works on ABCL (if you get around the Hunchentoot issues in Quicklisp) 08:40:19 sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:37 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:41:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.176] has joined #lisp 08:41:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.57.176] has quit [Changing host] 08:41:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:42:33 I'll keep that in mind, but I'm far from done designing it :D 08:44:29 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:44:33 anyway, what about you splittist? Parenthetically I mean 08:44:46 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:44:59 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:45:09 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47:54 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host83.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:48:18 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:46 dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 08:50:54 k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:57 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:05 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 08:54:15 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:56:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:56:57 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 08:58:10 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:58:14 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:02:31 -!- miql_ [~miql@ip98-165-228-225.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:03:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:04:21 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 09:04:33 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:13 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:12:08 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:15:38 Blkt: just thinking about what I can do to keep my hand in. Perhaps manage my collection of ebooks... 09:16:19 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-14-16.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:21:23 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 09:21:49 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-50-49.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:22:04 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-bdcyaaqfdgaimyxx] has joined #lisp 09:22:22 -!- decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has quit [Quit: füniküli fünikülaaa tafra yapma yaa füniküli fünikülaa] 09:22:51 benny [~benny@i577A1508.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:23:33 -!- ltaoist [~mo@14.113.204.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:23:49 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:37 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:27:19 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:30:20 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 09:30:38 -!- gko [~gko@27.53.3.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:06 Occupied [~occupied@46.206.192.42] has joined #lisp 09:35:10 -!- twopi [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:35:27 twopi [~tristan@lvps176-28-16-172.dedicated.hosteurope.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:38 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:37:23 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-015.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:37:25 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-015.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:37:25 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-015.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:37:26 Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-015.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 09:38:34 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 09:39:22 -!- Zhivago has set mode +b Joreji*!~thomas@u-0-015.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE 09:39:31 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 09:39:56 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 09:40:56 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-165.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-165.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:15 -!- Occupied [~occupied@46.206.192.42] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 09:47:01 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:49:03 can someone enlighten me how i can add (type or other) declarations to variables in a complex loop? 09:49:33 H4ns: for loop you'll do (for (the fixnum i) below 10) IIRC 09:49:47 iterate can parse (declare (type fixnum i)), too 09:50:12 flip214: how would i declare a variable ignorable? 09:50:25 in loop? you can't AFAIK 09:50:34 you'll need iterate for that 09:51:00 flip214: i don't need iterate. you can stop lobbying. thanks. 09:51:49 if you want to declare a variable ignoreable, you'll need it ;) ... or perhaps reiterate. 09:51:56 -!- chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:05 flip214: yeah, or dotimes or mapcar or whatever 09:52:23 OTOH, as loop won't parse that, perhaps it's enough to DO (progn (declare (ignoreable var)) NIL) ? 09:52:31 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:52:34 chr [~user@148.122.202.244] has joined #lisp 09:52:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@62.140.137.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 09:52:47 depends on the implementation if the declare can be anywhere below the declaration or at the same level, right? 09:53:28 flip214: as far as i know, declarations can appear only at very specific places, mostly as the first form of the form that establishes the binding. 09:53:53 isn't that implementation dependent? perhaps you're lucky ... 09:54:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 09:55:09 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0D0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:45 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:57:32 H4ns: (loop for x fixnum below 10 collect x) 09:57:42 jdz: i need ignorable 09:58:09 H4ns: yeah, was just going to mention that i don't recall it being possible to add other declarations 09:58:28 jdz: ok, thanks. i'll just get rid of the loop then. 09:58:59 H4ns: sometimes the simple LOOP looks pretty good, too 09:59:12 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:59:41 jdz: more often than not. :) 10:01:36 i would not have used loop in the cases i'm looking at now anyway, but i need to get rid of the compilation warning it produces. 10:02:06 flip214: Indeed, I can't see in the HyperSpec where there might be a requirement that, say, (declare (type ...)) for some variable X has to be immediately the binding construct which introduces X. 10:02:24 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:02:25 Just all the examples are that way. 10:02:36 H4ns: you're doing an awesome job! (i hate people letting code stay with warnings) 10:03:53 jdz: so do i, in particular when i'm the one to take over maintenance of the code. the issue here is that compilers produce different warnings, and the other guy used allegro cl, which is probably the lisp compiler with the most useless warnings ever 10:04:30 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.201.159] has joined #lisp 10:08:49 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:09:14 lobo_d_b [~lobo@190.165.153.141] has joined #lisp 10:09:14 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo@190.165.153.141] has quit [Changing host] 10:09:14 lobo_d_b [~lobo@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has joined #lisp 10:09:41 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:09:46 -!- Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 10:15:55 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:16:17 xan_ 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Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:36:44 -!- Athas` [~athas@192.38.109.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:41:55 rmathews [~roshan@59.92.81.21] has joined #lisp 12:42:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.175.179] has joined #lisp 12:42:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.175.179] has quit [Changing host] 12:42:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:44:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 12:46:24 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:48:52 pjb: hi 12:49:00 pjb: did you buy the raspberry? 12:50:28 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:51:40 -!- faust45 [~faust45@109-167-63-53.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Quit: faust45] 12:54:47 Not yet. 12:55:02 flip214: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_declar.htm 12:55:30 It's still not in the http://www.raspberrypi.org/ shop 12:57:33 if you don't look up "DECLARE" in the hyperspec, you can certainly not see where it is used and allowed. 12:57:39 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-bdcyaaqfdgaimyxx] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:58:21 hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:51 H4ns: yes, I know that the HS it says that ... but does that mean that implementations may _only_ accept it there? 13:00:49 iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:00:56 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.201.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:01:10 flip214: well, if it was common that compilers allowed declarations anywhere, suggesting that might be something like, well, a valid idea. but then, i have no evidence that this might be the case. do you? 13:01:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:01:46 flip214: it doesn't matter if an implementation accepts declarations elsewhere. "The consequences of attempting to evaluate a declare expression are undefined." Therefore if you put a declaration elsewhere, in ANOTHER implementation, it will be undefined. In conclusion: your code will be non conforming! 13:02:48 flip214: notice that even if all the existing implementations accepted it, with the same semantics, code taking advantage of it would still be non conforming! 13:03:05 pjb: that's not debatable anyway. but even if non-conformance is not an issue, suggesting that one could put declarations everywhere would not be a good suggestion unless there were implementations that allow that. i've not seen such implementations, but i have not looked very hard. 13:03:06 It would be a superset of the Common Lisp language. 13:03:36 H4ns: sorry, only tried to solve your problem .... I don't care (much) either way 13:03:39 Indeed. Notice also that declare is not a macro. Declarations are not forms, but expressions. 13:05:25 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:13:36 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:21:17 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 13:21:41 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:19 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 13:22:19 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 13:22:55 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:58 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:23:53 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 13:23:55 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-8-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:24:26 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-8-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:24:27 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:25:05 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 13:25:58 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:27:56 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:28:45 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-8-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:25 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 13:29:58 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:09 Hi 13:31:21 simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:32:42 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-8-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:36:38 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:39:00 faust45 [~faust45@109-167-63-53.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 13:42:56 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-200-179.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:43:38 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:45:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.123] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:45:41 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-8-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:46:15 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-8-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:50:27 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-8-20.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:54:05 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:54:17 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 13:54:47 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:24 Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.21.231] has joined #lisp 13:57:22 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: adieu.] 13:57:32 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:59:05 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-68-243.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:03:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:07:07 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 14:07:17 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:08:12 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:27 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.58] has joined #lisp 14:08:27 solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:30 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:12:43 qelsi [~qelsi@121.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:15 -!- simplechat_ [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:26 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 14:14:48 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Client Quit] 14:17:55 Guthur [~yaaic@212.183.128.8] has joined #lisp 14:19:25 fe[nl]ix: do you use any tool to help generate iolib documentation? 14:19:27 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:14 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:23:13 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-23-71.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:13 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-23-71.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:23:13 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 14:27:34 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host83.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 14:29:59 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:31:52 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:38:05 Guthur: https://github.com/sionescu/texinfo-docstrings 14:38:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:38:45 hello. i get this error: Unable to display error condition: *PACKAGE* can't be a deleted package:. 14:39:26 trebor_dki: you deleted the package that you had *package* bound to 14:39:26 Don't delete the current package! 14:39:30 trebor_dki: very approximately, "Don't Do That" 14:39:41 (setf *package* (make-package "USER1" :use '("CL"))) 14:39:58 it seems to be in this part: (when (find-packae <>) (delete-package <>)) (defpackage <>) (in-package <>) 14:40:10 (cl:setf cl:*package* (cl:make-package "USER1" :use '("CL"))) 14:40:16 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:17 right. 14:40:25 trebor_dki: it is in that part, yes. 14:40:29 Why do you do that??? 14:40:36 fe[nl]ix: cheers 14:40:39 -!- borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:12 the goal was to update the package 14:41:14 (progn (when (find-package <>) (delete-package <>)) (defpackage <>) (in-package <>)) ; may work better. 14:41:51 -!- borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:42:11 thanks pjb, trying 14:44:14 trebor_dki: what you are doing is pretty drastic 14:44:37 deleting the package does not update it. it deletes it. the new package has the same name but is distinct. 14:45:05 if you divorced your spouse and remarried, the fact that they shared a name would not be of great importance 14:45:10 i've been using this for months with no problems, now things suddenly crash (progn didn't help). 14:45:32 it might lead to sitcom-level hijinks if the name was "christine" though. 14:45:51 trebor_dki: then try: (in-package (make-package "USER1" :use '("CL"))) (when (find-package <>) (delete-package <>)) (defpackage <>) (in-package <>) 14:47:17 -!- sunmix [~user@223.206.39.64] has left #lisp 14:47:29 what is 'normal' way to update a package and to get sure, nothing is left from the 'old' package? 14:47:58 That doesn't sound like "update" to me. That sounds like "replace". 14:48:15 sunmix [~user@223.206.39.64] has joined #lisp 14:48:35 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-35-225.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:48:42 trebor_dki: the normal thing is not to kill the CURRENT PACKAGE! 14:49:12 trebor_dki: http://www.antell.com/pic/saw_branch_colsmall.jpg 14:49:17 i mean after some major changes in interactive coding, i sometimes want to have a clean state of the package i was working on (all other packages should keep their state (maybe they hold data)) 14:49:38 trebor_dki: you can delete about any package but the CURRENT ONE! 14:50:37 pjb: thank you for upcasing, /now/ i got it (really) ;) 14:51:17 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 14:51:39 Jovlang [~user@36.109-247-16.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:58 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.206.187] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:53:09 so (when (find-package <>) (in-package ) (delete-package <>) (defpackage <>) (in-package <>)) would be about the same, right (would like to have it at the top of the package-file)? 14:53:09 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-87-192-171.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:53:11 -!- sunmix [~user@223.206.39.64] has left #lisp 14:53:53 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 14:53:55 trebor_dki: in a file, it's more delicate, since you have to consider compilation-time and load-time in addition to run-time. 14:54:56 Furthermore, it's the REPL that checks for a valid *package*, so you have till the end of the file to restore it. So your (in-package <>) should be enough. 14:55:09 that might be the reason why it did not explode before (i had this at top of every package file) 14:55:17 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:33 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.212.94] has joined #lisp 14:56:37 thank you very much pjb for your patience. i'll fix that now. 14:58:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:37 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:58:41 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:10 ehu [~ehuels@109.34.150.71] has joined #lisp 15:02:47 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:02:52 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:19 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:03:22 -!- Jovlang [~user@36.109-247-16.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:58 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:32 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-7-28.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:07:38 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:44 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:09:53 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:10:03 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:21 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 15:12:06 -!- qelsi [~qelsi@121.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: qelsi] 15:13:16 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-234-216.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:14:18 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:14:21 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.58] has joined #lisp 15:15:33 -!- finnrobi [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:16:01 finnrobi [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:41 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129012138.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 15:16:50 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.212.94] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 15:25:32 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:41 -!- Guthur [~yaaic@212.183.128.8] has quit [Quit: Yaaic - Yet another Android IRC client - http://www.yaaic.org] 15:25:59 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27:39 sunmix [~user@223.206.39.64] has joined #lisp 15:27:44 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.58] has joined #lisp 15:27:45 rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has joined #lisp 15:28:43 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-7-28.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:28:56 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 15:29:23 -!- kami``` is now known as kami` 15:29:31 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 15:30:33 -!- kami` [~user@p57A2AE0B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 15:30:33 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 15:30:43 could anyone explain me how does funcallable-standard-class works? (e.g. how do I tell which slot of a class to execute when funcalled) 15:31:49 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:52 Blkt: you specialize the generic function whose name i don't recall by heart at the moment 15:33:37 No. 15:33:50 You call set-funcallable-instance-function to set the function that get called. 15:34:10 Zhivago: oh, thanks for clarification. 15:34:13 You can have that function be a lexical closure over your object in order to access it. 15:34:52 e.g., (set-funcallable-instance-function foo (lambda (bar) (foo-bar foo bar))) 15:35:28 I can think of few ways to more effectively earn a maintainer's hatred. 15:36:01 You could mail him prawns. 15:37:02 Zhivago: I don't get what foo is in that invocation 15:37:14 Your funcallable instance. 15:37:18 I see 15:37:18 or use non-standard method combinators 15:37:57 http://www.alu.org/mop/concepts.html#funcallable-instances might be useful. 15:39:29 ah nice 15:39:30 thank you 15:39:48 sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:15 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-35-225.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:48 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-35-225.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:41:16 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM49-252-35-225.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:43:43 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-103-224.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:51:54 -!- solussd [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd] 15:52:15 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 15:53:24 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:28 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:54:34 Hi all. Is FiveAM still a current and maintained test framework? 15:55:01 I don't get the impression that anyone is actively maintaining it. 15:55:12 It does work pretty well, though. 15:55:16 Eon has seen more recent activity than FiveAM 15:55:29 I'm wondering if I should migrate to something else or just stick with it. I saw Eos, a clone of FiveAM as well, but not sure what the difference is. 15:55:49 Eos is FiveAM without some of the dependencies. 15:56:47 I've been out of the CL unit testing mainstream, and much has happened, so I was checking to see if there's a new flavor worth checking out, or some other leaps and bounds improvement somewhere. 15:57:16 Sorry, eos, not eon 15:57:21 I've had a pretty good time just using Eos for my own testing. 15:57:27 -!- gensym [~timo@fw-office.allied-internet.ag] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:33 5am is nice 15:58:00 what's the issue with the 5am dependencies? 15:58:12 Eos is pre-quicklisp 15:58:16 ah 15:58:32 and I think the dependency on arnesi was so trivial that it may as well have been removed. 16:00:24 eos's self-test is probably about as useful/explanatory as 5am's documentation 16:02:17 qelsi [~qelsi@121.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:35 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:04:50 jmckitrick: I like NST 16:04:58 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:05:10 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Outta here?] 16:05:33 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:41 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:07:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:07:13 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:36 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-71-227-253-228.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:47 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:08:56 sbryant: Looks pretty nice. 16:09:00 ddp [~ddp@68-185-15-227.static.mdfd.or.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:09:23 McMAGIC-1Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 16:10:44 totzeit 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yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.78.175] has joined #lisp 16:29:32 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-208.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:30:04 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:37 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ibogyarklnmntjhi] has joined #lisp 16:31:08 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.156.9] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:37 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:36:31 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:37:09 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-235-9.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:59 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.81.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:13 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:39:55 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-153-29.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:40:34 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:41:19 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:10 Neronus: herep 16:42:13 BixSqrl [~Bix@c-50-131-212-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:29 dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:42:37 -!- dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Changing host] 16:42:37 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 16:42:43 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-153-168.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:43:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:44:35 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:45:43 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-235-9.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:45:54 There is no package named "NERONUS" . 16:45:59 (herep Neronus) 16:46:01 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:07 -!- lobo_d_b [~lobo@unaffiliated/juan--d--b/x-561435] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 16:48:49 osa1 [~sinan@88.242.163.158] has joined #lisp 16:49:18 hypno [~hypno@impulse2.gothiaso.com] has joined #lisp 16:49:58 sadhu [~sadhu@117.201.56.94] has joined #lisp 16:50:22 i am using mit gnu scheme and i want to compile the code and produce an executable? 16:50:36 sadhu: #scheme 16:50:43 We don't know about it here. We specialize in Common Lisp. 16:51:15 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:51:37 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:51:45 "mit gnu scheme" sounds like something nobody knows about 16:52:36 http://www.gnu.org/software/mit-scheme/ 16:52:47 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:52:59 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:55:37 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:55:38 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 16:56:00 Xach: http://www.gnu.org/s/mit-scheme/documentation/mit-scheme-user.pdf is titled "MIT/GNU Scheme User's Manual" 16:56:53 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0D0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:57:40 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0D0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 16:59:05 it looks like there is no way to compile them directly...there is an indirect way to compile the code into C code and then compile the C code to produce the standalone 17:00:17 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:00:23 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.167] has joined #lisp 17:00:28 -!- splittist [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 17:01:56 gigamonkey: T 17:02:43 mintsoup [~mintsoup@173-164-33-21-colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:55 sadhu: ask #scheme. 17:03:58 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.242.163.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:04:20 Or write a Scheme to CL compiler and then ask us how to generate an executable from your generated CL. ;-) 17:04:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:06:46 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:06:50 rewriting something like stalin to target SBCL could be fun (: 17:07:19 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-76-126-70-224.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:08:31 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:08:48 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-123-217.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:56 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0870.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:58 pnq [~nick@AC8143AF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:10:08 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-153-168.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:18 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0D0C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 17:11:16 Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:35 -!- drwho [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:12:53 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:13:17 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:13:37 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-66-108-59-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:40 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-66-108-59-110.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:17 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:14:42 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 17:14:53 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:01 Assuming your code is compiled before run, is there any extra overhead incurred using packages? The compiler should do the work of resolving everything such that an inter-package call is as fast as an intra-package call, correct? (not trying to optimize too early, just wondering) 17:15:17 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 17:16:13 SurlyFrog: there's no difference, afaik 17:16:20 SurlyFrog: you always use packages. Either way, once the code is read in, all the package resolution has been performed already. 17:16:39 okay, thanks 17:16:46 Compiler or interpreter both work on structured data. 17:17:05 ohsure. I see what you mean. 17:17:35 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.150.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:17:57 SurlyFrog: packages are used only at READ time. 17:18:10 SurlyFrog: when the compiler runs, read time is well passed. 17:18:21 yep, I get it now 17:18:38 SurlyFrog: if you want to have fun, you could read the source files, delete all the packages, and compile the code. 17:18:56 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-2-156-78.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:16 pjb:.hmmm, maybe when I get a little more time on my hands :-) 17:21:08 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-123-217.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:25 osa1 [~sinan@88.242.163.158] has joined #lisp 17:22:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-165.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:41 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-208.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:23:17 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-141-34-117.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:05 -!- Blkt 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[~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:59:42 sunmix` [~user@171.4.237.29] has joined #lisp 17:59:51 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 17:59:54 -!- ddp [~ddp@68-185-15-227.static.mdfd.or.charter.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:59:57 -!- sunmix [~user@223.206.39.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:00:19 -!- sunmix` is now known as sunmix 18:01:13 -!- sunmix [~user@171.4.237.29] has left #lisp 18:01:23 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:25 bubo [~bubo@62-47-148-170.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:08:20 ``Erik [~erik@BZ.BZFLAG.BZ] has joined #lisp 18:08:29 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-194-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:21 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-192-199.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:13:29 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ibogyarklnmntjhi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:15:38 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUjJU8Bbn3g&feature=related 18:17:13 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.208.179] has joined #lisp 18:17:17 ngz [~user@239.242.24.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-125-165.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:17:25 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 18:21:17 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:09 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-3.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:03 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:57 -!- sadhu [~sadhu@117.201.56.94] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:27:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:29:49 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0870.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:30:45 can sbcl be cajoled into stack-allocating structs? a (let ((thing (make-thing))) (declare (dynamic-extent thing)) ...) doesn't seem to be enough 18:31:07 (and yes make-thing is the defstruct-defined constructor in this case) 18:35:38 oGMo: declaim the constructor inline 18:35:39 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:36:11 DX across full calls is a lot more work. 18:36:16 pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-234-228.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 18:36:18 pkhuong: aha, excellent! thanks 18:36:21 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has joined #lisp 18:37:07 can one guarantee that (loop repeat (can-return-negative-number)) is a noop? 18:37:30 *maxm-* is micro-optimizing but its an part 18:41:52 RomyRomy [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has joined #lisp 18:41:52 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:42:04 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8143AF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:44:03 maxm-: if you're micro-optimising that, you might as well add an explicit plusp check; that tends to help branch prediction a lot. 18:44:44 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:45:22 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:45:23 17WAAQCF5 [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:45:24 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:45:24 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 18:47:36 maxm-: you cannot because can-return-negative-number may return a postive number! 18:47:39 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:52:33 -!- ngz [~user@239.242.24.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.167] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:56:12 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 18:56:12 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 18:58:02 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:28 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:59:38 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:55 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 19:00:00 sunmix [~user@171.4.237.29] has joined #lisp 19:00:30 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-68-243.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 19:05:47 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-194-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:59 no I meant positive is fine.. Just code looked leaner with wrapping (when ..) check removed 19:09:23 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:10:00 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:10:04 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.21.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:10:10 I don't know. For me, (loop repeat (1- (random 3)) collect 'hi) is perfectly clear. 19:10:25 H4ns: what are the prospects for a drakma release soon? 19:11:12 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:49 maxm-: read the source of push-mark, and try your command with the *Message* buffer visible: no "Mark set" message appears. 19:14:37 Sorry, wrong channel. 19:15:18 decaf [~mehmet@unaffiliated/decaf] has joined #lisp 19:16:11 will (declare (inline foo)) within the func body have the same effect as (declaim (inline foo)) 19:16:29 Xach: not sure. wanted? 19:16:55 H4ns: a little bit. rob blackwell's cl-azure depends on unreleased functionality now (the ssl certificate parts). 19:17:13 BountyX [~andrew@csu-137-148-234-107.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 19:17:15 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129012138.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:18:09 ok, then i'll do it this week 19:20:25 patterngazer [~IceChat9@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:49 -!- pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-234-228.csuohio.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:23:23 Guthur: no. declare is not an operator. 19:23:30 Guthur: the effect is undefined. 19:23:39 Guthur: such a program would be non conforming. 19:26:00 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:28:13 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-19-244.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 19:28:42 maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:16 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.47.28] has joined #lisp 19:30:30 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:30:45 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:45 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-155-194-9.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:53 -!- ignas_ [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:32:53 -!- maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:03 -!- patterngazer [~IceChat9@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Quit: OUCH!!!] 19:33:22 any drakma users who'd be willing to test the current development version? 19:33:23 patterngazer [~IceChat9@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:23 -!- patterngazer [~IceChat9@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:33:38 patterngazer [~IceChat9@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:51 -!- patterngazer [~IceChat9@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:34:08 patterngazer [~IceChat9@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:59 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-ylyhpjeoonvmkwqz] has joined #lisp 19:35:08 https://github.com/edicl/drakma - any problem or success reports would be appreciated. 19:35:52 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:36:44 -!- patterngazer [~IceChat9@globulon.pck.nerim.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:55 Xach: what is the canonical quicklisp url, http://quicklisp.org/? 19:37:07 H4ns: www.quicklisp.org 19:37:17 Xach: ok 19:37:44 Xach: i'm about done and will try to release tonight. 19:37:51 Cool, thanks. 19:38:43 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 19:38:57 ngz [~user@239.242.24.93.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:45 faust45_ [~faust45@109-167-63-53.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has joined #lisp 19:40:11 -!- faust45 [~faust45@109-167-63-53.dynamic.peoplenet.ua] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:11 -!- faust45_ is now known as faust45 19:40:15 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:41:04 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: (make-condition 'dtw:sleep)] 19:42:02 nanoc [~conanhome@200.16.144.226] has joined #lisp 19:42:06 daveo [~daveo@97.73.171.234] has joined #lisp 19:42:11 www.quicklisp.org is not an URL. http://www.quicklisp.org/ is an URL. 19:42:34 -!- qelsi [~qelsi@121.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:42:36 Your time has passed, gramps. 19:43:19 I cringe on each google results which hide it. 19:43:37 Trampling on our gopher heritage. 19:43:54 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-130-123.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:54 ftp:// irc:// news:// phoneto: mailto: etc. 19:43:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.47.28] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:44:09 -!- djuber [~djuber@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:44:36 I didn't use gopher a lot, and after http anyways. My stuff was the BITNET MAIL<->FTP gateway :-) 19:47:00 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-145-35.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:48:25 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has joined #lisp 19:50:01 SidH__ [~heroor@122.172.20.225] has joined #lisp 19:50:20 *Xach* for one year had @maine.bitnet 19:52:38 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-2-130-123.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:10 -!- 17WAAQCF5 [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:54:11 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:54:22 -!- SidH__ [~heroor@122.172.20.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:57:48 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:58:49 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:16 Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:59:25 I finally managed to publish my common lisp documentation search engine stuff http://lisp-search.acceleration.net/ 19:59:51 Its not that user friendly, but it seems to return useful results, and I figured if I didnt publish soon I was just going to lose steam on it 20:00:19 It searches all the docstrings for everything found in quicklisp (plus whatever packages were available when I loaded my sbcl) 20:01:50 So it does a OR of the keywords? 20:01:57 Usually we want a AND. 20:02:04 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:11 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:02:20 bobbysmith007: looks like it searches in READMEs, too! 20:02:23 kind of... its doing what montezuma does by default which is kind of a fuzzy and that falls back to or 20:02:29 oh yes it also searches readmes 20:02:35 thanks 20:02:49 hopefully it will be useful, and your welcome 20:03:01 err... you are 20:03:28 pjb: you can enforce and by prepending a + char to your search terms 20:03:34 In any case, looks useful. 20:03:51 This falls under the "not that user friendly" heading 20:04:02 Well + changes the results, but it's not really a AND either. 20:04:06 fuzzy as you said. 20:04:27 yeah... its a "should-occur" vs a "must-occur" term neither of which is strictly and 20:05:00 montezuma? 20:05:03 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:05:06 also I can't figure out if its doing wordstemming appropriately (I am leaning toward no) but the words involved a bit nonstandard 20:05:11 Xach: yes 20:05:19 bobbysmith007: and that may motivate library authors to write more and better docstrings :-) 20:05:22 *Xach* could not figure out montezuma sufficiently quickly to want to use it 20:05:28 Aethaeryn [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 20:05:34 Does anyone here use slime? 20:05:44 Aethaeryn: I use slime and so do many others. Probably most. 20:05:52 Aethaeryn: yes, most of us. 20:06:40 Is AMOP freely available on the net through Kiczales's approval, or are those pirated? [I have a paid for hardcopy, thanks, but I would like to cite a passage in email if it's on line] 20:06:42 Aethaeryn: and now the real question comes in 20:07:03 rpg: i think those are pirated, aside from the last few chapters. 20:07:05 I use the emacs package-install thingie to install slime, slime-repl, swank-clojure, and clojure-mode, in an attempt to get slime to work. I also made a symbolic link of lisp and cl to /usr/bin/sbcl 20:07:27 rpg: i was astonished to find them in print, i thought i couldn't find them last time. (though i couldn't find a hard-cover version anymore) 20:07:31 Idk why, but the slime in there seems to want swank-clojure and clojure-mode to run properly. 20:07:42 clojure 20:07:45 rpg: http://www.alu.org/mop/admin.html 20:07:45 -> /me out 20:08:19 Aethaeryn: perhaps they patched slime to support clojure? We usually use the slime that comes with quicklisp... 20:08:28 madnificent: I got one from MIT press a while ago. 20:08:32 bobbysmith007: "parameter", not paramter ;) 20:08:35 Xach: I agree... Montezuma was a bit of a chore, but I think its actually a pretty cool little data store once I got the hang of it. It seems pretty fast on the retrieval end. Not sure its better than postmodern/postgresql full text indexing though. 20:08:36 So it says on M-x slime "it looks like clojure isn't installed, would you like to install it?" even though I installed everything fine 20:08:44 ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:08:44 pkhuong: thanks, will fix 20:08:47 AMOP is still in print as a softcover at least 20:08:48 rpg: I believe chapters 5 and 6 are open 20:08:51 Xach: thanks. I was looking for one of the pieces of code. Not a big deal --- I will just cite by page number. 20:08:54 rpg: the rest is closed 20:08:58 I bought a couple of copies around christmas. 20:09:00 And if I say to it "no, don't install it" it gets some java error 20:09:01 new 20:09:02 bobbysmith007: otherwise, really nice latency. Bookmarked! 20:09:09 ehu: Thanks! 20:09:15 Copyright doesn't prevent citations. You can copy a sentence or a paragraph! 20:09:36 pjb: sorry was afk there, well that is an eye opener 20:09:37 pjb: So the solution is to use a different slime than Fedora's emacs-slime and this emacs package manager thing's slime packages? 20:09:47 Both of which get different problems. 20:09:50 I really thought (declare (inline foo)) was valid 20:09:53 Aethaeryn: yes. 20:09:56 Guthur: Citations goes under fair use. 20:10:08 Aethaeryn: slime is pretty straightforward to set up with quicklisp-slime-helper. 20:10:12 Aethaeryn: the most important thing with slime is to use the swank that comes with the slime you use. 20:10:34 Guthur: there's (declaim (inline foo)) and (proclaim '(inline foo)) for use in code. 20:10:35 ejbs: I assume that wasn't for me 20:11:27 pjb: well, this is kind of good news, in addition to being a little wiser I maybe able to squeeze a little more performance from my code 20:12:01 Guthur: of course, you need to understand what (defun foo () (print 'hi) (proclaim '(inline foo)) (print 'lo)) does... 20:12:14 ie. probably not what you want. 20:12:16 Guthur: Oh, I just associated your "eye-opener" comment with what pjb said.. 20:12:28 ejbs: that was earlier :-) 20:12:30 Guthur: (declare inline) is valid. It might not do what you expect it to. 20:12:47 pkhuong: no, it's undefined, outside of declaration places. 20:12:59 rpg: thebookdepository has one from mit, but it's not hardcover 20:13:11 pjb: sure, same as declare in general. 20:13:18 yes. 20:13:43 surely it would not even compile on most implementations outside of valid places 20:14:08 I'm pretty sure SBCL complains 20:14:54 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.69.130] has joined #lisp 20:15:49 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:16:42 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:17:08 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:18:43 -!- BountyX [~andrew@csu-137-148-234-107.csuohio.edu] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:19:19 RomyRomy [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has joined #lisp 20:19:56 qelsi [~qelsi@121.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:09 cwardell [~cwardell@ool-4351ef1e.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:33 rgrau`` [~user@109.Red-193-153-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:23:47 _schulte_ [~eschulte@206.169.60.164] has joined #lisp 20:26:37 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-ylyhpjeoonvmkwqz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:26:45 frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 20:26:51 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:30:01 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-26.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:31:02 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 20:31:05 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 20:33:55 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:34:33 madnificent: Yes, mine is paperback, too :-( 20:37:08 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:38:23 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:38:55 I'm kinda surprised how little wsdl/soap/lisp activity there is anywhere. 20:39:00 does nobody use soap? 20:39:04 krake [~krake@p57903DCE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:23 -!- bubo [~bubo@62-47-148-170.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:39:27 Shaftoe: last time i had to, i used the vendor supplied java soap client to interface to the web service. 20:39:59 Shaftoe: people either stay away from it, shim it out, or can easily add LW or ACL to expenses (at least Allegro has SOAP lib) 20:40:13 H4ns: yeah, I'm actually thinking of using the wsdl2java utility to create java code to then manually port 20:40:38 Shaftoe: I think I'd rather go from the WSDL to Lisp than from Java to Lisp 20:40:51 p_l: from what I Can tell, Allegro's soap lib is not complete. I haven't worked with Allegro though, so it's only what I can tell from newsgroups etc 20:41:10 Shaftoe: how about using ABCL and calling any Java libs straight from inside your lisp? 20:41:18 Shaftoe: My experience with SOAP is pretty unpleasant, and I feel fortunate not to have to use it for anything. 20:41:29 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD7EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:35 Shaftoe: My impression is that few vendors and API makers are choosing SOAP for new projects. 20:41:42 p_l: I have a large wsdl file I must implement. I'm loathing reading through every line of it. It'd be so much easier to have java files created. more humane. 20:42:07 Xach: tell me about it. I'm stuck integrating with an Indian "productivity suite" 20:42:40 to their credit, it seems to be doing what the non-programming folk of the organization want it to do 20:42:47 Shaftoe: a great opportunity for hacks and glory! 20:42:49 or at least hacks 20:43:06 hah. There is no glory in my job =) 20:43:08 i am so glad that had the word "few" before "vendors" 20:44:07 soap made sense back when DCOM and CORBA was seen as the end all be all. In hindsight, I Really don't get why people didn't just use REST. for mere encoding? sigh. 20:44:55 sady corba is comparatively hassle-free 20:45:01 sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:20 ehu: too much effort. I literally need to receive a single 32 int bit. Once in a while. 20:45:23 Shaftoe: They needed a name to latch on to. Perhaps "REST" hadn't been coined yet. 20:45:39 Shaftoe: SOAP got some stuff that REST doesn't implement, that *can* (that doesn't imply *will*) be useful in various environment 20:45:41 I run SBCL, I have a webserver up... Ain't no way I'm installing a new system 20:45:41 -!- sunmix [~user@171.4.237.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:45:53 what's this &any I see in some lambda lists but have no idea how to actually use it myself? doesn't seem to be standard 20:46:14 p_l: yeah, I know. And I used to believe that too. But honestly, in my old age, I've come to recognize that everything is just strings. 20:46:15 Shaftoe: ABCL is a CL too. 20:46:16 Shaftoe: s/\*will\*/will be used properly/ 20:46:28 optimize in sbcl takes &any it for example 20:46:37 frx: &any is not standard. where did you see it? 20:46:58 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:46:59 Shaftoe: Well, IMHO there's more fault to some people who got the "great" idea called "alternate normal form XML" 20:47:00 ehu: it's a production system. you don't just switch the lisp implementation from underneath it without giving child birth. 20:47:33 hah. alright alright.. I didn't come here to start a rage ;) 20:47:44 when I type "(declare (optimize" SLIME echoes (declare (optimize &any (compilation-speed 1) (debug 1) etc 20:47:48 in SBCL 20:49:05 frx: it means that you can provide any of these, e.g. (declare (optimize (debug 2))), and that they default to 1. 20:49:16 I know 20:49:37 I wanted to use &any in my own functions but can't seem to find info about it. (kind of hard to google &) 20:49:59 frx: that's what &any means. It doesn't actually exist. 20:50:19 I thought SLIME is just showing actual lambda list 20:50:33 Now you know that is not the case. 20:51:59 where does slime get that info 20:52:35 it's hard coded or it's actually extracting it 20:53:04 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD7EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:24 grep "&any" in the slime source. 20:53:28 I can already see mentions of it. 20:53:37 in swank-backend.lisp, swank-ccl, and swank-sbcl 20:53:53 including stuff like "remove-&any-args" 20:54:18 that seems as hard-coded as it gets, really. But I'm just pretending to know. Maybe someone else knows off the top of their heads 20:55:27 Shaftoe: recursive grep is useful. The arglist display is implemented in a contrib (slime-arglists) 20:55:50 Illiux [~nol@mc2-wireless-pittnet-39-1.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 20:55:55 pkhuong: aye. I didn't really bother. Was just pointing in the general direction of... 20:56:31 pkhuong: like I Said, I don't know anything about it so didn't want to appear as though I did. 20:57:20 espadrine [~thaddee_t@acces2477.res.insa-lyon.fr] has joined #lisp 20:58:05 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:28 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has joined #lisp 20:59:59 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.31.44] has joined #lisp 21:01:05 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:04:27 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:04:42 Kazinator: "01:08:07 flip214: Indeed, I can't see in the HyperSpec where there might be a requirement that, say, (declare (type ...)) for some variable X has to be immediately the binding construct which introduces X." 21:04:47 ^-- Indeed, you can declare the type of a variable either immediately in the form its introduced or at a deeper level, but the semantics are a bit different. In the former case, it's a bound declaration, while in the latter case it's a free declaration... 21:04:52 It's best to use a bound declaration when possible, as the compiler might then be able to optimize the representation of the storage for the variable better. Note that even (let ((foo bar)) (locally (declare (type baz foo)))) might (will?) be treated differently than (let ((foo bar)) (declare (type baz foo))) 21:04:53 -!- krake [~krake@p57903DCE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:06:41 krake [~krake@p5790387F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:29 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:39 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:46 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:10:06 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Quit: jeekl] 21:10:43 *bhyde* wishes he could suppress the "Inline expansion for length not found" warning in lispworks 21:11:05 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 21:11:23 bhyde: I guess you could try to declare LENGTH notinline... 21:11:49 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-14-16.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:11:53 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-174.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:12:10 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-195.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:12:23 *pkhuong* fondly remembers the list-length VOP on x86 21:12:38 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-174.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:12:47 hex stream - indeed I could revise alexandria and submit a patch, etc. 21:12:57 *bhyde* hatz warning in his compile logs 21:13:08 A sensible policy. 21:14:11 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:15:57 drwho [~drwho@56-34-237-24.gci.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:57 amaron [~amaron@cable-178-148-242-32.dynamic.sbb.rs] has joined #lisp 21:18:43 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.206.187] has joined #lisp 21:19:30 SurlyFrog [~Adium@63.231.245.97] has joined #lisp 21:20:09 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.242.163.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:10 sublimepua [~sublimepu@cpe-76-179-21-39.maine.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:22:09 -!- Illiux [~nol@mc2-wireless-pittnet-39-1.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 21:24:57 The proper way to do multiple things inside the ELSE form of an IF is to wrap them in a PROGN, correct? My understanding is that there isn't a way to attach an ELSE onto an UNLESS or WHEN, otherwise I'd use that. 21:25:10 Or use COND. 21:25:13 SurlyFrog: COND is another option 21:25:28 Oh, sure... 21:26:40 That might look cleaner. For some reason the PROGN forms look weird to me. Maybe because I don't see them too often. So they make me feel like I'm doing something wrong. 21:26:43 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 21:27:40 SurlyFrog: i've a rule of thumb that outside of a defmacro progn is usually a mistake 21:28:00 can i directly type unicode string inside a .lisp buffer and expect it to work on all/most lisp implementations that have unicode support? 21:28:36 frx: Yes, I'd assume that. Try it out? 21:28:37 bhyde: wanna critique a paste? 21:28:40 *austinh* has been using PROGN with IF often lately. 21:28:51 alicemagnus [~alice@2001:888:10f4:0:29f3:1d38:9d16:d29f] has joined #lisp 21:29:07 Illiux [~nol@cl-wireless-pittnet-150-212-22-96.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 21:29:10 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:29:21 -!- alicemagnus is now known as alice 21:29:22 frx: I don't really see how an implementation could really "support unicode" without supporting it in source files... 21:29:42 yeah I guess I wasn't thinking 21:29:46 -!- alice is now known as alicemagnus 21:29:48 austinh: You're probably underusing WHEN/UNLESS/COND, then. 21:30:10 but yeah it could do something like #u"unicode string" "normal string" 21:30:17 -!- alicemagnus [~alice@2001:888:10f4:0:29f3:1d38:9d16:d29f] has left #lisp 21:30:43 so I can just use them directly, and use regular CL functions like string-upcase, search etc? 21:31:02 frx: Sure. What's the point of Unicode if the system can't do that for you?? 21:31:17 ok good 21:31:34 You'll of course be limiting yourself to unicode-supporting implementations, but I'm sure you're well aware of that... 21:31:38 is when/unless anything more than a shorthand for if? Is there a hidden benefit that I Don't know of? 21:31:52 Hexstream: CL is defined to be broken for string-upcase in the unicode world. 21:31:53 Shaftoe: Idiomaticness and readability. 21:32:03 Hexstream: I think the merits of COND vs. IF/PROGN are debatable. 21:32:07 pkhuong why? 21:32:07 Hexstream: aight. what I thought 21:32:18 ...when you only have a simple binary branch 21:32:31 This is the code that uses IF/THEN/ELSE (PROGN ) http://paste.lisp.org/display/127398 21:32:34 pkhuong: That's news to me... care to elaborate? 21:33:08 Shaftoe: when, unless, if and cond, when used appropriately, make it easier to read code because the structure of what follows is apparent in the beginning 21:33:10 austinh: I used to use IF/PROGN ą toutes sauces, but over time I came to appreciate WHEN/UNLESS/COND. 21:33:37 Shaftoe: i.e. if you use if without an else clause, the reader has to determine that whereas with 'when', it is clear right from the beginning. 21:33:49 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:33:50 honestly, I encounter many instances of a conditional branch having unequal lengths of work to be done on either side. I'd feel dirty using two juxtaposed (when ..) (unless .. ) forms just to avoid having one branch of my if having a progn 21:33:52 Shaftoe: as such, the four conditionals help the reader decipher the code. 21:33:57 Hexstream: upcasing is locale-dependent and isn't performed on codepoints. 21:34:06 H4ns: yes, that I agree. 21:34:08 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:34:20 WHEN screams "I only have a then clause" and UNLESS screams "I only have an else clause". That's useful. 21:34:22 H4ns: ok. Yup. agree totally 21:34:28 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has joined #lisp 21:34:28 RomyRomy [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has joined #lisp 21:34:35 MoALTz [~no@host-92-2-130-123.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:52 Unfortunately, string-upcase is defined that way, as applying char-upcase on each element of the string. 21:35:46 pkhuong ah. thankfuly I don't care about letters where that wouldn't work :) 21:37:14 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Quit: jeekl] 21:38:41 jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has joined #lisp 21:38:42 -!- jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has quit [Changing host] 21:38:42 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 21:39:09 -!- qelsi [~qelsi@121.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:39:15 qelsi [~qelsi@121.Red-83-33-85.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:41 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:40:16 kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 21:41:22 I am getting gibberish instead of proper unicode letters when loading the file 21:41:30 when typing it in the repl I'm getting proper letters 21:41:36 SurlyFrog: http://paste.lisp.org/+2QAU/1 21:41:41 I guess it has to do with file encoding, but I'm not sure what to do 21:41:51 -!- hefner [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: more hacking] 21:42:16 emacs should save as utf8 by default no? why doesn't it work? 21:42:23 -!- jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has quit [Client Quit] 21:42:46 jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has joined #lisp 21:42:46 -!- jeekl [~crz@46.19.36.208] has quit [Changing host] 21:42:46 jeekl [~crz@unaffiliated/jeekl] has joined #lisp 21:42:50 bhyde: thanks! sousing the COND is a bit more Lispy than how I had it? 21:43:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:43:25 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:43:29 pkhuong: Ah, ok. I guess it would be interesting to know if those who wrote the spec made the deliberate decision to prevent "locale-correct" string upcasing/downcasing forever, or if they didn't really consider the question. There might be a case for drifting from the spec a bit there, depending... I don't think you'd anger many people by supporting locale-correct conversion... 21:43:58 bhyde: why is there an accumulator instead of just a local variable? 21:44:29 -!- kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:30 Or we could add a keyword argument to STRING-UPCASE/STRING-DOWNCASE to enable such a feature, being off by default. That could make sense. 21:44:39 kenanb [~user@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 21:45:04 SurlyFrog: if when and unless all showed up long after cond  for what ever that's worth :) 21:45:05 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:45:14 amagnus [~alice@2001:888:10f4:0:29f3:1d38:9d16:d29f] has joined #lisp 21:45:20 hi 21:45:28 pjb: are you there? 21:46:15 bhyde: actually, I don't need the VALUES, since I only care about the tail-call. The SETF is just used for its side affect. 21:46:25 bhyde: Lisp had COND before IF? 21:46:41 austinh: Yep. 21:46:59 I /thought/ I had written it tail-recursive, but maybe I didn't since the last call is actually to PROGN. 21:47:24 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-50.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:47:47 Seems odd since IF is a special form and the others are all macros (presumably defined in terms of IF). 21:47:56 pkhuong: not my code, but the multiple calls on make-hash-table imply plans for deeper json generation 21:48:08 Maybe that's the question I should ask. If the last form of your function is a PROGN and the last form of the PROGN is a recursive call, is your function tail recursive? 21:48:24 jdz [~jdz@host200-109-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 21:48:25 austinh: McCarthy's half-a-page lisp had COND, not IF. 21:48:36 Hexstream: Neat. 21:49:30 I really do feel dirty about how I've had to implement my Soap interface. It feels like a hollywood set. Cardboard facades and all... 8) 21:49:38 SOAP... 21:50:06 if you switch the P and A, you get SOPA...therefore...SOAP IS EVIL 21:50:31 austinh: I don't see what's neat about it, it's pretty logical that IF should be the primitive, since it handles one test and two branches of one form each, while COND supports any number of tests and forms within each test... Usually "atomic" stuff is used to implement "compound" stuff... But anyway, it's been resolved for a long time. 21:50:33 diginet: yeah, we've already had the general moaning at soap session earlier in the day. I just finished "implementing" my thing though... I need a shower. 21:50:58 haha...just don't use SOAP to wash yourself 21:51:03 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:51:12 Hexstream: I agree, that's why I'm surprised that COND preceded IF. 21:51:40 so, just out of curiosity, while I'm sure its possible, how reasonable is it to write non-trivial programs without side effects in Lisp? 21:51:43 austinh: it's easier to write an interpreter with cond than if. 21:51:52 I mean, can it be done without resorting to awkwardness 21:51:58 pkhuong: I believe that. 21:51:59 diginet: it's impossible in CL. Defining a function is a side effect. 21:52:19 *diginet* feels stupid 21:52:21 duh! 21:52:35 I read somewhere that Lisp is actually not functional at all...is that true? 21:52:45 It's multi-paradigm. 21:52:48 I know 21:52:52 but 21:52:59 Lisp functions very well. It's all that matters. 21:53:16 it's possible to stick to a mostly-pure style, but it's usually restricted to only some parts of the program. 21:53:41 well, I read this one page that claimed lisp was the antithesis of a functional language 21:53:42 Use the right paradigm for the job. :) 21:53:44 which surprised me 21:54:44 I think a language that doesn't support first-class functions would make a much better "functional language antithesis". 21:54:59 -!- amagnus [~alice@2001:888:10f4:0:29f3:1d38:9d16:d29f] has quit [Quit: amagnus] 21:55:14 amagnus [~alice@alice.ipq.co] has joined #lisp 21:55:22 this was the article in question http://letoverlambda.com/index.cl/guest/chap5.html 21:55:45 diginet: my lucky guess would be that the author of that article got sick and tired of hearing that lisp is a purely functional language and decided to do something about that perception. lisp is multi-paradigm, which means we have many many more things than support for functional programming styles. 21:56:09 I see 21:56:14 The letoverlambda guy is a bit insane. 21:56:20 okay 21:56:50 well, I didn't think he was right, but I usually just assume others are right, because I'm not very confident in myself in certain respects 21:56:55 thanks for the clear-up Hexstream 21:57:19 diginet: for the record, i didn't read the article. i stick with lisp because it supports the me in most ways i want to express myself (much more than other programming languages do). perhaps that's what you want to hear. (i don't really know where you're heading with this) 21:57:40 thanks for the help everyone 21:58:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:58:14 I guess, I'm interested in programming for a mathematical sense, less than a practical one. I've toyed with Haskell, but I don't like the Syntax 21:58:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-208.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:58:47 I might have another look at LispKit 21:58:47 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:58:54 there's also Owl-Lisp which I just found 21:58:58 diginet: If you're obsessed with "purity" you might want to have a look at scheme and #scheme. 21:59:24 scheme isn't purely functional either 21:59:27 In this channel we're a bit more practicality-oriented. 21:59:27 Well, my thoughts on scheme are that it isn't purely functional either, and I like CL a lot more (I'm not even sure why) 21:59:43 or rather, I don't remember why 21:59:46 perhaps because it /is/ practical? 21:59:55 diginet: ((lambda (f) ... (funcall f ...) ...) (lambda (arg) ...)) 22:00:00 I remember toying with scheme and there being things I found annoying 22:00:13 diginet: If that's practical is up to you. 22:00:26 haha 22:00:36 diginet: eg. see http://paste.lisp.org/display/122296 22:00:38 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:01:02 that's awesome pjb thanks 22:01:14 DataLinkDroid [~David@120.152.164.106] has joined #lisp 22:01:21 Of course with pjb in the room people won't take me seriously when I say we're practicality-oriented... 22:01:27 haha 22:02:20 I don't know if anyone has something firm to say on the matter, but by doing a quick experiment it *appears* that if PROGN is the last form of a function and the last form in the PROGN, the function is tail-recursive. At least the Allegro CL compiler seems to be able to optimize it as such. Does that seem right? 22:02:43 the last form in the PROGN is a recursive call to the function ... 22:02:54 SurlyFrog: The standard says nothing about tail-recursiveness. 22:03:10 Ok 22:03:22 *bhyde* giggles at the sight of happy.lisp 22:03:36 which does not prohibit implementations to optimize tail calls 22:03:47 In CL we tend to program in ways that tail-recursively doesn't really matter much, it's just an optimization... If you program in ways that requires tail-recursion, you're using bad unportable style. 22:04:09 tail-recursion* 22:04:25 SurlyFrog: not all CLs actually eliminate tail calls 22:04:31 Hexstream: so you would tend to favor LOOP and it's cohorts than recursion? 22:04:37 ehu: sure.. 22:04:41 and it's not required by the standard. 22:04:44 SurlyFrog: I never tend to favor LOOP, no. 22:04:44 I understand that 22:05:03 Hexstream: what do you favor? 22:05:29 dolist, dotimes, etc... 22:05:52 I favor using a recursive style for things that are actually much better expressed as recursion, like processing of trees and such. If an iterative style fits the problem well, use that. Don't use recursion where iteration or mapping will do... 22:07:03 *might be getting overzealous with recursion* (but I like it so much. it just brings me back to my SICP class) 22:07:25 SICP is a scheme book. Scheme favors recursion. CL doesn't. 22:07:37 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@206.169.60.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:58 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-195.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:08:06 got it. you common lispers are way more practical than I expected :-P 22:08:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@host200-109-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:08:42 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:30 I have saved the file as utf8. loaded the system with clisp, got "Invalid byte" exception. same in ccl. I got gibberish in sbcl. what to do? if I type it in the repl directly it works on all 3 22:09:56 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:10:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-143-195.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:11 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.69.130] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:10:20 or rather i got gibberish in ccl and invalid byte in sbcl 22:10:30 SurlyFrog: As a result of avoiding LOOP, I indeed use things such as DOLIST/DOTIMES/MAPC/MAPCAR/MAPCAN/MAPL/MAPLIST/MAPCON/DO/DO* more than others would, however I'm not quite satisfied with that... For some time I tried to remedy the situation by implementing DOALIST/MAPALIST and other such things, however that's also pretty limited... 22:11:55 frx: in ccl, you can set ccl:*default-external-format* to :utf-8 or else do (load "foo" :external-format :utf-8) or whatever. 22:12:05 I think I finally came up with the ultimate MAP function and DO macro, that will really be able to compete with LOOP, but it will take quite some time to implement and there are many other things I want to finish first... 22:12:35 eheh 22:12:56 Hexstream: I'm pretty comfortable with DOLIST/DOTIMES and the Mapping (though I always have to go back to the CLHS for everything other than mapcar because I can't think of a good pnuemonic to help me remember the difference). I'm not familiar with DOALIST/MAPALIST. 22:13:04 Yeah, those margins are always too small to write down what you want. 22:13:31 jbiesnecker [~textual@116.237.73.175] has joined #lisp 22:14:58 msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 22:15:00 DOALIST and MAPALIST are not part of the standard, but they're just analogous to DOLIST and MAPCAR, except they take 2 arguments (key and value) instead of 1 (element). 22:15:01 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:15:19 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:15:35 extending do ? 22:15:38 cool 22:16:01 Hexstream: Soo, why this instead of iterate? 22:16:53 homie: No, they're symbols completely independent of DO. Unless you're talking of my "ultimate DO" thing, well that doesn't have that much to do with DO either. DO can't really be extended... Though you could write something on top or something with similar semantics, sure... 22:17:00 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.16.149.5] has quit [Quit: paul0] 22:17:38 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:18:54 ejbs: I really don't want to discuss that kind of thing extensively, because I know how much it pisses off some people out here, but I'll just say iterate is built on much the same foundations as LOOP and so shares most of the fundamental (perceived!) problems... But anyway. It will be more interesting to discuss when I have an actually implemented alternative to present. 22:19:09 what is there to extend in DO ? 22:19:19 Nothing. 22:21:25 Hexstream: Well, write your alternative and we'll see what happens :-). 22:21:47 Hexstream: sometimes optimization is a great motive for a design decision 22:22:14 COND is the reason why we have LISP. If Fortran or Algol designers had accepts McCarthy's proposition of a COND, we would still be writting programs in Fortran (with the FLPL library http://www.informatimago.com/articles/flpl/index.html ). 22:22:14 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.31.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:22:29 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:23:02 kenanb: Uh, yeah, sure. The alternative I'd present would be eminently optimizable (though the first public implementation likely won't be optimized.) 22:23:04 Therefore any lisper worth his bits should use only COND, even for alternatives. 22:24:48 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:25:25 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 22:25:40 *Hexstream* starts an exhaustive audit of all of pjb's code to see if he uses COND exclusively, or if he's just a malicious hypocrite for suggesting such nonsense. 22:28:06 *Hexstream* gets too many 404's on pjb's site, abandons quest. Ok, I think I talked enough for today. ;P 22:28:07 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable019.12-178-173.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:28:53 Really? 22:29:24 Try: https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago that's where I leave public code nowdays. 22:29:34 I should update my website. 22:30:02 But I'm a hypocrite. 22:30:53 LiamH [~healy@173-165-155-170-charleston.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:31:57 is there any list of pairwise disclosing packages in quicklisp ? 22:32:12 or packages which don't really go well together ? 22:33:03 homie: it's really a rare occurence. 22:33:21 ok, just wanted to be sure 22:33:38 -!- ngz [~user@239.242.24.93.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:04 Does anyone know off hand if you can put :serial t inside an ASDF :module form? 22:37:26 SurlyFrog: I think I've done that. 22:37:36 why not try it and see 22:38:06 LiamH: thanks, I'll push it off a cliff and see if it flies :-) 22:38:23 geef [~king@108-215-232-154.lightspeed.hstntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:45 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:38:45 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:38:55 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-401348.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:39:36 is there a server/runtime for common lisp/scheme that supports event driven io? 22:40:36 ive found that cps makes async much cleaner but javascript doesn't really support it very well :*( 22:44:23 -!- LiamH [~healy@173-165-155-170-charleston.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:45:43 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-103-224.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:47:49 geef: CL: iolib 22:48:07 -!- Illiux [~nol@cl-wireless-pittnet-150-212-22-96.wireless.pitt.edu] has quit [Quit: Illiux] 22:48:10 geef: JWACS is an interesting approach 22:49:41 -!- frx [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:50:20 *Xach* has not really used it though 22:51:08 Xach: sorry, i had to finish mad men s4 and now i can't release drakma. apologies. will do it tomorrow. 22:51:42 This should be safe, right: (and foo (function-that-must-not-take-nil foo)) 22:51:47 *Xach* is on S23 of "Derrick" 22:51:56 Xach: not really 22:52:03 Xach: really? 22:52:16 *Xach* can't get enough "Derrick"! 22:52:19 heh. 22:52:29 jasom: It won't get nil, that's for sure. 22:52:30 Xach: ok. tomorrow it is! 22:52:36 The value NIL is not of type FIXNUM. 22:52:39 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:52:53 Illiux [~nol@cl-wireless-pittnet-150-212-22-96.wireless.pitt.edu] has joined #lisp 22:53:01 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:55:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:47 -!- maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:55:52 i don't see some regulars in channel like brecht lately, any ideas? 22:55:55 maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:01 Mad Men is so sad I prefer Bewitched. 22:56:57 Now, between Derrick and Columbo 22:57:01 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has joined #lisp 22:58:06 ddp [~ddp@anon-154-28.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:19 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:59:53 -!- Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-035.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:00:13 *kenanb* hopes maybe Xach knows 23:00:23 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:01:06 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:01:18 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:01:50 Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:02:28 -!- jbiesnecker [~textual@116.237.73.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:02:32 *jasom* is going crazy: (if offset (progn (print offset) ...) is printing nil 23:03:10 If offset is nil and you run it in the REPL, and  returns nil, then yes. 23:03:20 jasom: better show us REAL code! 23:03:24 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:04:48 Irfan_A [~irfan@180.246.183.235] has joined #lisp 23:04:56 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127401 23:07:06 jasom: what is that? 23:07:18 jasom: Why the asterisks around the let* var-name? And the indentation is off too.. 23:08:02 jasom: You also close 23:08:03 jasom: that's not real code. 23:08:08 -!- dRbiG [~p@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:08:19 jasom: parentheses don't balance, it uses operators not defined. 23:08:34 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:08:38 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 23:08:41 karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:09:54 pjb: you want the whole file? The whole ASDF module? 23:10:08 jasom: at least a complete function. 23:11:06 jasom: something that we can evaluate. 23:11:17 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:11:38 Otherwise I will define missing functions as returning nil, and won't find any bug. 23:12:35 pjb: it's okay for any missing functions to return nil 23:13:25 jasom: You know IF will return nil if the test-form is nil and there is no else-form, right? 23:13:59 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 23:14:11 austinh: yep, all I really want is to not call "mask" if offset is nil 23:14:13 jasom: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127401#1 23:14:30 jasom: you don't. 23:15:11 and as indicated above,you can just write: (and offset (mask key (ext-node-key best) offset)) 23:15:14 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127402#1 23:15:26 There's the whole function, and SLDB complaining 23:15:45 jasom: read the backtrace! 23:15:47 jasom: and what did the PRINT show? 23:16:01 crap, I'm an idiot pjb 23:16:13 I though so. Thanks for confirming. :-) 23:16:43 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 23:17:08 jasom: notice how you can evaluate sub expressions, as long as you bind free variables. 23:17:17 It's useful to debug. 23:17:19 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:17:20 no, I'm still missing something 23:17:23 What? 23:17:57 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:44 pspace [~andrew@137.148.253.41] has joined #lisp 23:19:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:19:52 omegapunkt [~textual@60.234.20.206] has joined #lisp 23:19:59 jasom: are you sure that's the (debug 3) version? 23:19:59 totzeit1 [~kirkwood@74-95-195-182-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:13 pkhuong: yeah there are a lot of locals... 23:20:15 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 23:20:39 and what did the PRINT show? 23:20:46 -!- totzeit1 [~kirkwood@74-95-195-182-SFBA.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:21:19 -!- krake [~krake@p5790387F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:22:01 pkhuong: NIL 23:22:19 jasom: try instead (print `(offset is ,offset)) 23:23:11 jasom: and did you declare a type for crit-bit-tree-mismatch? 23:23:54 pkhuong: that's the problem 23:24:06 (or nil fixnum) 23:24:07 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:24:11 instead of fixnum 23:24:21 jasom: you want (or null fixnum) 23:24:39 NIL is the empty type. SBCL trusts type declarations for functions blindly. 23:24:45 or (or (member nil) fixnum) 23:25:01 argh 23:25:02 The type propagation engine then constant-folds the conditional away. You probably got a dead code elimination note. 23:25:22 but it doesn't blindly trust arguments unless (safety 0) that's weird that they're different 23:25:44 jasom: checking a function's type is undecidable. 23:25:51 jasom: the declaration means that you're asking the compiler to blindly trust the arguments you're passing! 23:26:04 jasom: if you want to check the types, use check-type, not declarations. 23:26:05 *function* types are trusted. 23:26:20 pjb: good luck CHECK-TYPEing a non-trivial function type. 23:26:26 in sbcl non-function types are not trusted unless on (safety 0) 23:26:43 but yeah, I see how they can't check function types 23:26:59 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~moo@90.150.174.199] has quit [Quit: Ņīļčķąģįóš?] 23:27:44 and nil/null type bit me again 23:30:23 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:31 ghuntley_ [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:31:22 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:32:31 -!- two- [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:34:38 that's happened to me several times recently, as well 23:34:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-143-195.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:34:52 that, and using LIST when I meant LISTP 23:35:01 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 23:40:10 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.162] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:41:35 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:00 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:44:25 austinh: that will also trigger code deletion notes in SBCL. 23:46:03 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@63.231.245.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:47:15 Farzad [~root@46.225.109.118] has joined #lisp 23:47:48 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:48:44 hi people, whats the best gui wrapper for qt or gtk these days? 23:48:55 -!- rgrau`` [~user@109.Red-193-153-241.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:49:09 Farzad: I think the one I've heard the most praises about lately is commonqt 23:49:09 CommonQt for qt seems to be used 23:49:19 Farzad: commercially CAPI seems popular 23:49:20 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.212.94] has joined #lisp 23:50:02 Xach, not commercial, and commonqt has no real manual 23:50:13 Xach, just a few tutorials 23:50:39 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:50:58 Farzad: Your options are limited. If you don't have lots of time to spend or money to spend, you might be out of luck. 23:51:05 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-14-16.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:51:40 Posterdati [~tapioca@host188-225-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:51:44 Xach, ... well time is all i have here :D 23:52:03 Commonqt it is! 23:52:06 Xach, what do you think about ltk bindings? 23:52:10 then you can explore commonqt, write lots of tutorials, hehe 23:52:25 Farzad: seems pretty simple and easy to me. 23:52:26 lol 23:52:28 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-154-28.relakks.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:52:49 Farzad: I haven't written any GUI lisp programs, sorry. 23:53:15 is common qt reliable? 23:53:39 What will your program do? 23:53:43 btw i saw your box office charts visualizations, they seem ueber cool 23:53:51 kenanb: Thanks. 23:53:53 dunno just exploring 23:53:53 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:55:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:55:25 -!- Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:35 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:55:40 Farzad: What do you think you might want it to do? 23:55:43 Farzad: exploring gui libs without nothing to do with them mostly just makes you waste time 23:56:03 charting, games, simple stuff 23:56:42 stickycake [~stickycak@64.134.64.179] has joined #lisp 23:56:43 gui stuff is not what you want for that, you probably need graphics libraries 23:57:07 + multimedia libs like lispbuilder 23:57:28 i might wanna like zoom in the chart or do some real rime things 23:57:39 time* 23:59:08 Farzad: ltk is fine for just throwing a gui on top of something. It's probably not appropriate for fancy effects or games though