00:00:04 I guess I'll just go the "if you want to see the actual value that was set, just immediately call the associated reader" route for now. 00:00:59 SETF returns the value(s) returned by the storing form for the last place that was assigned, or nil if there are no pairs (the empty (SETF) case). 00:01:19 That's from the CLHS. 00:02:14 Kazinator: Right, I know that. But the spec sometimes forgets to consider some scenarios... 00:02:55 IN this case, if the spec forgot to consider scenarios it would say something like "returns the value(s) stored in the last place" 00:03:13 The writer of that particular spec rememembered very well that SETF is working with a setf expander, which involves a store form. 00:04:44 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 00:05:40 The question is then, if you're using define-setf-expander, can you produce store forms which return somethihng other than the value stored. 00:06:07 Kazinator: I don't really see how that relates to what I am asking. There's no question that SETF uses a store form. The question is, whether a store form should be allowed to do some basic canonicalization before returning the result (returning a semantically-equivalent value according to the specific context), or return another result if the stored result is actually different than the input. 00:06:16 This is a question of behavior for custom SETF expanders; do they have to conform to such a rule. 00:06:24 wahahahahah 00:06:36 Actually I'm just using a SETF function, not a SETF expander... 00:06:43 there's somethin fishy about sb-aclrepls history counter..... 00:06:53 or so 00:07:01 Though that doesn't count as a significant semantic difference I guess. 00:07:31 when i press up key i should see the result of the previous expression, but instead i see either the prevous expression or the one before that randomly 00:07:42 Aha, take a look at 5.1.1.2 Setf Expansions 00:07:44 !!! 00:08:10 Is there a CLHS bot to summon that? 00:08:22 Kazinator: http://l1sp.org/cl/5.1.1.2 00:08:36 It puts constraints on storing forms. 00:09:08 ``[The Storing form] changes the value of the place and guarantees to return as its values the values of the store variables, which are the correct values for setf to return.'' 00:09:31 So, if you wreck this somehow, you are sticking the proverbial fork into the proverbial toaster. 00:11:27 -!- UnwashedMeme [~nathan@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 00:11:32 Kazinator: Right. I knew that but... Yeah, I guess there's not much place for interpretation. I'll have to bow to the spec. 00:12:07 Even under DEFSETF there is an example (not normative, I know); that (defsetf car rplaca) would be incorrect because rplaca does not return its last argument. 00:12:42 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:12:47 OH and this, under Notes: ``forms must include provision for returning the correct value (the value or values of store-variable). This is handled by forms rather than by defsetf because in many cases this value can be returned at no extra cost, by calling a function that simultaneously stores into the place and returns the correct value. '' 00:12:53 Kazinator: Right, but in this case there's no good reason to deviate from the spec. Whereas I think there could have been a case for canonicalization. 00:13:55 -!- peddie [~peddie@repl.esden.net] has left #lisp 00:14:01 The above note makes it clear that the responsibility is deferred to the definition because in many cases, the definition can assure it more efficiently (by using a convenient function which already has the return semantics). 00:16:08 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:32 lm12 [~lm12@cpe-024-163-027-048.triad.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:52 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 00:20:13 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-224-49.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:04 Is there a way to determine if a symbol names a function or a macro? 00:22:22 FBOUNDP doesn't distinguish them. 00:23:04 <_3b> macro-function 00:24:30 thanks 00:25:15 <_3b> and special-operator-p to rule out that possibility, if you want to make sure it is a function 00:28:57 i.e. (and (fboundp x) (not (special-operator-p x)) (not (macro-function x))) => x is a function 00:33:34 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:33:55 -!- rgrau_ [~user@156.Red-79-154-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:35:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:44 momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:44:21 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:44:28 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:44:37 Ok, I have another weird question about SETF functions. ;P I guess it's OK to have a SETF function that accepts extra arguments that the corresponding reader doesn't accept? For instance I want to do an API where (policy) returns a value of type (member nil t warning style-warning error), while (setf (policy) new-policy) sets the policy to new-policy... 00:44:42 However, the (setf policy) is only advisory, and the (implementation-specific backend) function can actually "downgrade" or "upgrade" the policy to something other than which was requested, according to supported levels... 00:44:46 So, I'd want the (setf policy) function to have an extra :on-not-honored keyword argument which can be :upgrade or :downgrade or :error. I'm aware of (setf gethash), which accepts and ignores the optional argument just for conformity with GETHASH, but my case is the other way around, basically. 00:45:21 *Adlai* didn't recall signing up for the Comprehensive Reading course 00:46:18 Adlai: You opted in by joining #lisp. Leaving #lisp would have the effect of opting out. 00:46:56 Hexstream, I guess that's partially true... also given how much I've contributed to the channel in the past two years I hardly have a right to complain about anything :) 00:48:32 Sometimes not saying anything is the right choice. 00:52:10 I mean, quality is arguably more important than quantity, in terms of contributing to this channel. 00:55:29 austinh: Sure, but one man's ham is another man's spam. As long as it's on-topic and technical I think there's some place for differing opinions about what's relevant and interesting and what isn't. 00:56:14 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.163.60] has joined #lisp 00:57:21 Kron__ [~Kron@98.143.96.97] has joined #lisp 01:00:44 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:00:52 hekate [~hekate@ec2-184-73-20-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:52 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:03:27 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:05 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-92-119.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:06:59 -!- lm12 [~lm12@cpe-024-163-027-048.triad.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 01:07:55 Frozenlock [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:01 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 01:11:39 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 01:11:55 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:12:00 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:36 can anyone give a review on hunchentoot vs allegroserve as a webserver? 01:16:50 momo-reina: i think everyone here uses hunchentoot 01:17:09 momo-reina: you should most likely check out toot and whistle also 01:17:27 momo-reina: can't give you an overview though 01:17:29 madnificent: thanks, what's whistle? 01:18:56 higher level webserver? 01:19:12 built on top of toot? is that it? 01:19:27 momo-reina: correct 01:20:02 momo-reina: hunchentoot isn't a particularly bad place to start, but toot and whistle should be easier to understand 01:20:08 momo-reina: https://github.com/gigamonkey/whistle 01:20:13 momo-reina: to my understanding 01:20:16 madnificent: great, will definitely do, thanks! just starting out, don't have a clue to what the ecosystem ahs 01:22:09 -!- momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:31 momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:23:26 -!- momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:24:42 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-58-169-14-16.lns2.civ.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:25:13 -!- Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:27:18 Hexstream: both the writer and the reader should accept the same arguments. One or the other may ignore certain arguments. Otherwise (incf (foo a b c)) would fail. See for example (incf (gethash key table default-value)) 01:29:41 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:31:24 pjb: I think for some specialized reader/writer pairs, supporting modify macros is not exactly a priority. Consider the specific context of my (policy) thing... 01:31:29 -!- TashBear [~da_tash@unaffiliated/el-tash/x-7763973] has left #lisp 01:32:32 grantg [~chatzilla@69.88.160.3] has joined #lisp 01:32:45 modifier macros are an abstration. Whatever the accessors, you may define one to update them. 01:33:15 Adlai`` [~adlai@109-186-40-76.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 01:34:19 And, modify macros would still work for (policy), just not for (policy :on-cannot-honor 'whatever-coping-strategy). Though I guess I could make the reader accept and ignore :on-cannot-honor, so it's a bit like a mirror of the GETHASH case in this case (for GETHASH the writer accepts and ignores and argument, in my case it's the reader that would accept and ignore an argument). 01:34:35 an* 01:34:35 -!- jakky [jakk@motherfucking.ddosking.org] has left #lisp 01:34:40 jakky [jakk@motherfucking.ddosking.org] has joined #lisp 01:34:48 -!- Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:34:52 Yes. 01:37:13 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: no reason] 01:38:21 -!- grantg [~chatzilla@69.88.160.3] has quit [Quit: Noping the hell out of IRC, as dinner and computer time don't mix.] 01:39:18 mikecsh [~mikecsh@n219079215236.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:26 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:53 Ghoti- [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 01:43:00 Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:36 -!- Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:46:34 a` [~zmv@186.204.150.191] has joined #lisp 01:46:39 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:48:01 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:32 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:35 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-138.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:40 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-59-98.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:50:54 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:51:20 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:51:50 -!- hekate [~hekate@ec2-184-73-20-166.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has left #lisp 01:52:19 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-80.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:53:49 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 01:56:11 -!- a` is now known as zmv_with_a_goate 01:56:24 -!- zmv_with_a_goate is now known as zmvwithagoatee 01:59:59 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:03:22 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:04:07 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:06:07 -!- Adlai`` is now known as Adlai 02:06:21 -!- Adlai [~adlai@109-186-40-76.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Changing host] 02:06:21 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 02:15:43 I'm trying to load a lisp file which contains its own `load' command, but CLISP seems to reset the directory. Say my files are on "c:\test", I will use `(load "c:/test/lisp1.lisp"). How can I be sure it will use any subsequent `load' command from inside this directory? 02:16:52 rmathews_ [~roshan@59.92.82.76] has joined #lisp 02:16:57 bieber [~quassel@107-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:59 Frozenlock: Relative pathnames are canonicalized by merging with *default-pathname-defaults*. That variable is not affected by CL:LOAD. You could arrange to affect it. 02:17:23 e.g. in your file, (setf *default-pathname-defaults* (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :defaults *load-truename*)) 02:17:26 Frozenlock:(load (merge-pathnames #P"other-file.lisp" *load-pathname* nil)) 02:17:37 that's another option. 02:18:07 Notice that *default-pathname-defaults* is not bound by load like *package*... 02:18:29 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:18:32 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.21.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:18:33 -!- rmathews_ is now known as rmathews 02:19:02 Frozenlock: I almost exclusively arrange to load the files in my projects by writing a system definition. I don't think I've yet put (load ...) in a .lisp source file. 02:20:32 Wait what? I'm comming directly from elisp... I'm used to `require' and `load'. 02:20:37 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@n219079215236.netvigator.com] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 02:20:53 (setf *default-pathname-defaults* (make-pathname :name nil :type nil :defaults *load-truename*)) would solve my problem? 02:20:57 mikecsh [~mikecsh@n219079215236.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:18 The default may contain name and type. 02:21:27 I tried beforehand to setq *default-pathname-defaults* to my working directory, but I didn't work. 02:21:40 *it 02:21:51 Frozenlock: Ignore what you know about elisp. It's not going to help you learn how to write CL programs. 02:22:08 Nooooooooooooo 02:24:27 Should I look into ASDF to make a system definition? 02:24:37 Frozenlock: sure. I wrote a tutorial on the topic. 02:24:56 http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html is it. 02:25:10 hmm, i need to polish it some more. i do things a little differently with ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ now. 02:25:18 Thanks! 02:25:25 Oh nice, quicklisp! 02:27:04 *Xach* zzz 02:27:23 mikecsh_ [~mikecsh@n219079215236.netvigator.com] has joined #lisp 02:29:44 -!- hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:30:38 -!- zmvwithagoatee is now known as zmv 02:30:51 -!- mathrick- [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:59 -!- zmv is now known as she 02:31:08 mathrick- [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 02:31:08 -!- she is now known as zmv 02:31:08 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@n219079215236.netvigator.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:31:08 -!- mikecsh_ is now known as mikecsh 02:33:57 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d19ae.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:37:17 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has left #lisp 02:41:08 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:42:40 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 02:42:46 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483AC0E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:01 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d19ae.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:04 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483ABBE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:44:35 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:45:13 ism_ [~frinnn@f053213123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:45:13 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 02:45:16 -!- bieber [~quassel@107-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:48:24 -!- ism [~frinnn@f053212090.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:48:48 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 02:50:28 hugod [~user@bas1-montreal08-1279584440.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:51:07 I'm confused by quicklisp-slime-helper: "quicklisp-slime-helper makes it easy to use SLIME from Quicklisp." Why would I want to use SLIME from Quicklisp? Isn't it the other way around? 02:51:08 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:51:21 adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:40 Frozenlock: Quicklisp manages the Slime upgrade cycle for you, basically. 02:52:32 And with Swank? 02:52:39 "use Slime from Quicklisp" as in "use the Slime version from Quicklisp"... 02:53:03 Oh I see! 02:53:08 Frozenlock: When we talk of "slime" we usually mean "slime" (emacs side) + swank (CL side). 02:53:43 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:53 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:56:18 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-197-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:56:58 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-87-79-197-80.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:57:32 neff [~neff@c-76-104-206-192.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:43 -!- neff [~neff@c-76-104-206-192.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:59:01 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:34 powderfurdayz [~powderfur@c-76-104-206-192.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:16 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:00:38 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:01:01 hello, anyone here know scheme well enough to give me some help? =) 03:01:08 try #scheme 03:01:30 #scheme 03:02:27 How do i get there again? haha 03:02:37 powderfurdayz: Although it's named #lisp, this channel is for Common Lisp 03:02:39 /join #scheme should do it. 03:02:55 preceded by /part #lisp 03:02:57 Yeah thats what I thought austin 03:03:20 stay or leave? 03:03:35 I have a rather sophisticated problem... 03:03:50 Well, if it's regarding Scheme, you are in the wrong place. 03:04:30 Okay then...adios 03:06:44 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:19:18 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 03:20:59 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:22:52 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:21 -!- YokYok [~david@ec2-107-21-81-230.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:26:58 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:27:49 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d19ae.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:32:14 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:32:51 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:33:38 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:36:08 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 03:36:51 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.82.76] has quit [Quit: ...] 03:37:35 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:37:51 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:51 kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.106] has joined #lisp 03:38:51 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.106] has quit [Changing host] 03:38:51 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:39:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-128-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:40:22 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:31 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:47:10 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-245-119.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:32 jlf [~user@pdpc/supporter/active/jlf] has joined #lisp 03:53:01 YokYok [~david@ec2-107-21-81-230.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 03:56:41 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:56:56 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:58:09 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 03:59:44 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.160] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:59:49 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 04:00:06 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.244] has joined #lisp 04:00:51 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-hcvbqslikzhydyjl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:02:15 reb [user@nat/google/x-cubwprlcmjbboxsx] has joined #lisp 04:02:47 boyscare1 [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:59 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:03:59 -!- boyscare1 is now known as boyscared 04:04:26 How would you define "lisp system"? 04:04:33 Depends. 04:04:47 A lisp system may be an implementation. 04:05:03 I need to describe the difference of lisp systems from compilers and interpreters in a few sentences. 04:05:14 An ASDF system (or system in general) is some software that can be loaded automatically with some system definition system. 04:05:24 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:56 naryl: well a lisp implementation provides an environment, a lisp image, where you can have interpreterS, compilerS, REPL, debuggerS, editors (CL:ED), etc. 04:06:16 so a lisp system is like a unix system, you have a core, and a set of tools and a shell (the REPL), etc. 04:06:23 thanks :) 04:06:47 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 04:07:09 naryl: when we say emacs is a lisp machine, it's not just an image of wishfull thinking. We can really consider emacs and the lisp implementations as virtual machines. 04:07:26 (since we don't have lisp hardware anymore, we can only run virtual machines :-) ) 04:07:27 shurane [~mortimer@pool-71-246-112-82.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:30 pnq [~nick@AC8104DE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:42 wtf, when i run the testsuite with an sbcl created core of maxima 3 tests fail, and when i run the sbcl within emacs and run the core the testsuite fails just 2 tests..... 04:12:10 same with the old and the new sbcl in that regard 04:12:16 SunSapient [~user@171.4.46.7] has joined #lisp 04:12:17 SunSapie` [~user@171.4.46.7] has joined #lisp 04:13:38 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 04:14:53 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-164-159.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:15:04 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Client Quit] 04:15:49 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.25.77] has joined #lisp 04:17:03 the only annoyance with the new one is it throws me into ldb when i quit maxima 04:17:09 lol 04:17:54 well at least the error count is decreasing with every release of sbcl and/or maxima .... 04:23:57 i just don't get why sb-aclrepl is behaving on it's history thing like as if it would be bare +, ++, +++ and/or *, **, *** restricted.... 04:25:09 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:27:49 -!- SunSapient is now known as sunmix 04:29:10 -!- ism_ [~frinnn@f053213123.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 04:30:15 wuj [~wuj@207-172-162-191.c3-0.wsd-ubr1.qens-wsd.ny.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 04:30:29 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fqvjfzhwwgzfoalp] has joined #lisp 04:30:53 -!- sunmix [~user@171.4.46.7] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:31:41 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:31:58 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 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has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:32:49 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:36:22 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 06:41:55 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.157.210] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:42:33 o/ 06:43:46 -!- yoklov_ [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 06:45:01 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-67-160-207-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:43 alkoma [~alkoma@c-67-160-207-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:01 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-67-160-207-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:47:23 -!- dnolen [~user@ppp-70-249-145-33.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:27 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-93.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:52:46 alkoma [~alkoma@c-67-160-207-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:56:50 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 06:57:45 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-67-160-207-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:00:16 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-128-93.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:06:37 -!- mathrick- [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:06:54 mathrick- [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 07:07:01 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.163.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:10:07 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-023.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:10:09 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-023.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:10:11 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-023.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:10:11 Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-023.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 07:10:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-59.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:59 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:12:08 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:39 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 07:21:25 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:22:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-81.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:23:34 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:50 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 07:25:49 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:01 ironclad seems to be an interesting piece of code, quite much is done on compilation time and there seems to be quite much symbol munging 07:27:16 alkoma` [~user@c-67-160-207-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:25 -!- alkoma` [~user@c-67-160-207-143.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:27:51 *jjkola_work* was able to reduce the amount of notices and warnings to about 40k lines (when building ironclad) 07:29:19 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:29:26 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.20] has joined #lisp 07:29:30 I used ironclad to write licensing code. A client machine generates a software license, which the server signs with its key and sends back to the client. 07:30:17 I see 07:30:59 -!- chenbing` [~user@115.192.195.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:31:13 I'm trying to make it work correctly with :invert readtable case 07:31:18 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:42 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 07:33:44 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 07:34:31 H4ns wished for it so I took a stab at ironclad after making my way through cxml & cxml-stp 07:37:15 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.109.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37:17 would there be any way to make initargs use def'd setf methods 07:37:41 -!- sunmix [~user@171.4.46.7] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:40:44 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:40:56 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 07:40:57 Guthur: what do you mean? 07:40:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:41:40 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-56-124.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:52 pjb: If i have a slot with an initarg, the value passed to it during initialisation is written directly to the slot 07:43:27 whereas I would like the equivalent of (setf (my-slot obj) init-value) 07:43:46 I could use a :before initializer, i suppose 07:45:15 the scenario is that the slots are actually 'wrapping' foreign values, and so the setf and reader function for the slots are using cffi 07:45:38 I'm looking to also expose them via :initarg of the encapsulating class 07:46:15 sunmix [~user@171.4.46.7] has joined #lisp 07:46:44 I wonder if there is some MOP mechanism that could achieve this 07:47:00 same with :initform. You can call the setters in the initialize-instance method. 07:47:28 Otherwise, indeed, with a meta class, you could do it. 07:47:57 ok, cheers 07:49:29 anybody have latest version (git) of ecl? I can't fetch from sourceforge git and I don't want to use the old release 07:50:41 hello lispers 07:51:46 mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has joined #lisp 07:55:21 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-138.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:55:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 08:01:31 hello kiuma 08:02:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 08:02:43 jjkola_work: I think ECL is available on github. At least in a 24 hour mirrored form. 08:03:12 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.60.111] has joined #lisp 08:03:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:03:12 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 08:03:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.60.111] has quit [Changing host] 08:03:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:03:40 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-023.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:04:11 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-023.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:04:13 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:04:25 -!- Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-023.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:04:38 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-023.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:07:06 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bcfdjvbuvmobjohc] has joined #lisp 08:08:43 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:08:58 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:09:49 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 08:12:44 easye: thanks, I was able clone from there 08:17:46 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:20:59 -!- mathrick- [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:21:08 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:21:54 -!- powderfurdayz [~powderfur@c-76-104-206-192.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/] 08:22:25 gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has joined #lisp 08:23:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:23:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 08:25:00 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:43 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081C204.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:10 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:37 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:40 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 08:32:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:32:13 does anybody have implemented a bridge for libpq-async ? 08:32:23 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:32:51 mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has joined #lisp 08:33:05 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 08:35:27 kiuma: cl-postgres uses a socket to talk to pg, so it might be relatively easy to port into an async environment 08:35:36 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 08:36:07 good morning everyone 08:43:37 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:45:33 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:49:37 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 08:50:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 08:53:00 kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:53:39 bohl [~bohl@dslb-088-070-077-249.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:56:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 08:56:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.72.163.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:01:50 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:01:51 -!- Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081C204.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:41 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:02:41 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:02 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-224.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:03:33 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 09:04:15 -!- zfx- [~zfx@host86-145-158-190.range86-145.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:04:54 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 09:07:14 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:33 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 09:08:46 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:47 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 09:14:09 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:14:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 09:18:59 zlszk [~user@116.114.208.98] has joined #lisp 09:20:44 jjkola_work_ [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 09:21:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.138] has joined #lisp 09:22:21 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:22:54 -!- Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: EPIC5-1.1.2[1638] - amnesiac : Error 467: Illegal brain function. 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13:31:51 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:32:33 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:36 -!- phao [phao@187.91.249.3] has left #lisp 13:36:55 for those interested in my cilk stuff, I put my alpha-quality code on github at git@github.com:7max/cl-cilk.git 13:37:04 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:37:21 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:37:23 to get it to run you'll have to remove all references to (log-whatever) and get several dependencies 13:38:52 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.38] has joined #lisp 13:43:51 please I need the article on "comment rules" :) thanks 13:43:51 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:07 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 13:44:30 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.38] has joined #lisp 13:49:47 -!- orivej [~orivej@ppp91-79-235-17.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping 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[~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 14:14:59 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has left #lisp 14:15:27 meta-physicist [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:15:35 asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 14:16:06 solussd_ [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:34 -!- meta-physicist [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:16:42 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:16:52 What do the + and * mean in (equal * (eval +)) ? 14:16:59 meta-physicist [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:17:04 clhs * 14:17:52 solussd_: Notice that that works only in the REPL, not in programs. 14:18:00 -!- meta-physicist [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:18:12 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:18:14 I know. Just want to understand it. 14:18:24 * is a special REPL variable that hold the value of the last evaluated form, while + holds the form itselfe 14:18:35 Then you have read the clhs page about * and + as indicated by fe[nl]ix 14:19:04 Thanks 14:19:10 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 14:20:07 -!- zmyrgel` [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:38 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-021.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:20:54 solussd_: now, funnier: (= 0 (+ 1 (exp (* pi #C(0 1))))) 14:21:07 -!- j0ni [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:21:45 -!- Harag [~phil@41.56.17.132] has left #lisp 14:22:19 utterly hilarious! 14:22:25 #C is new to me 14:22:25 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-021.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:22:56 And my chat client out a smiley at the beginning. :/ 14:23:11 no, it didn't, don't worry 14:23:18 It should. 14:23:34 #C(real imag) is the reader notation for complex numbers. #C(0 1) is i. 14:23:42 exp is e^ 14:23:47 Ohh 14:23:54 So we have the classic equality: 0 = 1 + e^ipi 14:23:57 and = is "exact numerical comparison", which is almost always wrong for floats 14:24:26 Now, with another life, I'd patch some CL implementations to use reallib instead of ieee754... 14:25:07 Yeah I get it. :) 14:26:04 Ok- back to my book. 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