00:01:38 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:08:44 wtf 00:09:14 mcclim-freetype is not a package tho freetype is and mcclim-truetype is 00:10:33 and *freetype-font-path* does not exist 00:10:40 only *truetype-font-path* does 00:10:53 it's all documented wrong man 00:11:12 as if somone wanted to prevent you from getting a working thing..... 00:20:23 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.62.16] has joined #lisp 00:20:52 dl` [~download@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:37 -!- dl [~download@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:23:44 what's the differnce of (declare ignore...) and (declare ignorable ...) ? 00:24:22 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.176.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:26:59 one means it is ignored and the other that it is ignorable. 00:27:17 homie: The latter just silences the warning in cases where it's not used  EG, if the &body passed to a macro might-or-might-not use a variable that the macro-expansion inserts. 00:27:53 IGNORE means the compiler can optimize the variable away or whatever. 00:28:55 I also use IGNORABLE in CCL when I have something like (defmethod foo :around (x y) (call-next-method)), because CCL warns that x and y aren't used, even though they are. 00:29:12 !whorocks | sellout 00:29:20 sellout: specialize them on t (: 00:29:56 pkhuong: I prefer (declare (ignorable x y)) ; NOTE: CCL shouldn't warn here! 00:29:59 if it's just a quick hack, a lot of older compilers will be ok with things like (lambda (x y) x y [...]) 00:30:10 sellout: eh.. arguable. 00:30:21 pkhuong: I mean, I prefer it because I get to vent ;) 00:31:04 -!- dl` [~download@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:31:22 If you say (defmethod foo :around ((x t) (y t)) ...) you don't get the warning. I used to think that warning was a ccl bug, too, but http://lisptips.com/post/15025308254/referring-to-method-parameters convinced me I didn't have to worry about it. :-) 00:31:23 pkhuong: Are you saying it's arguable that CCL shouldn't warn? 00:31:38 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.62.16] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:32:01 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.62.16] has joined #lisp 00:32:17 sellout: right. 00:32:46 rme: But, IMO, (call-next-method) refers to all the parameters. 00:33:14 sellout: well... no, it's more like referring to the single argument list that's only exposed via the MOP. 00:34:11 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-139-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:36:24 pkhuong: I understand that implementationally it doesn't but saying "this variable isn't used" is not something the :around method can actually claim. IE  and I don't know the answer  would it be safe for me to say (defmethod foo :around (declare (ignore x y)) (call-next-method)) 00:36:41 umm, forgot (x y) after :around 00:37:07 pretty sure it would be. 00:37:23 c-n-m doesn't refer to those bindings; otherwise (setf x 42) (c-n-m) would be funky. 00:38:16 Ok, then I guess I can deal with the warning. But I still think it's not helpful, and helping devs is really the purpose of warnings. 00:38:47 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:39:16 -!- sugarshark [~ole@p54884B1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:48:22 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 00:51:05 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 01:06:22 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:45 -!- lurker [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:25:24 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:26:20 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:32:39 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-226.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:27 DataLinkDroid [~David@101.161.7.28] has joined #lisp 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[~frinnn@f053210030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:47:33 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.93.122] has quit [Quit: ...] 02:48:08 -!- ism_ [~frinnn@f053209127.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:53:21 leo2007 [~leo@124.72.163.37] has joined #lisp 02:56:04 -!- Siphonblast [~Siphonbla@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:03:14 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:08:06 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-226.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:42 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-veyrdrxauzgakzxt] has joined #lisp 03:13:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.169.100] has joined #lisp 03:13:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.169.100] has quit [Changing host] 03:13:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:14:35 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-123.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:19:39 momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:22:12 Heh, I like where this old link to the CLHS goes now: http://www.harlequin.com/books/HyperSpec/FrontMatter/Chapter-Index.html 03:22:17 sloanr [~sloanr@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:07 -!- sloanr [~sloanr@c-75-72-180-95.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:29:52 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-138.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:55 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-148-219.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:29:58 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 03:35:32 -!- momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:36:28 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-49-158.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:02 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-104.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:38:13 rmathews [~roshan@122.164.178.2] has joined #lisp 03:38:48 Xanadu! 03:40:27 momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:45:03 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:12 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 03:48:44 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:49:29 dys` [~andreas@krlh-d9be7f94.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:05 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f737653.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:55:08 BlubCentral! 03:57:11 rme [~rme@50.43.135.246] has joined #lisp 03:57:26 LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:27 -!- momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:44 momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:58:18 apwalk [~apwalk@ppp-70-246-157-126.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:49 *Cosman246* looks around 04:00:02 whois momo-reina 04:01:05 -!- momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 04:01:13 whois drewc 04:03:16 momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:16:43 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:17:45 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:18:27 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 04:19:35 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:43 -!- momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:23:32 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:25:34 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.155.10.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:22 momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:33:57 icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.93.198.19] has joined #lisp 04:41:41 i am doing a project and i defined a package with the clause (:use :bknr.datastore). in my class definition, i am trying to inex a slot using an index of type "string-unique-index". when i try to compile and load this file, it failes with the error that "class mypackage::string-unique-index was not found". any ideas of why i should be getting this error? bknr.datastore uses bknr.indices which exports the class in question 04:42:08 s/inex/index 04:46:03 Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:19 -!- momo-reina [~user@121.35.135.27.ap.yournet.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:50:11 package in your class definition ? 04:50:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:51:19 nicdev_: did you execute the defpackage form? 04:54:05 wbooze: pkhuong the file i am trying to compile contains the defpackage form, let me try to execute it first and then try the compile and load 04:55:14 nicdev_: if you've been working on this interactively, you might have to disambiguate some conflict by hand. 04:57:01 class is compile time ? 04:57:04 sureaint [~mortimer@pool-71-246-112-82.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:10 defpackage is runtime ? 04:57:25 and object is runtime.... ! 04:57:31 instance i mean 04:57:44 You questions are meaningless. 04:58:20 wbooze: did you read some lisp tutorial? 04:59:01 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:40 erm defpackage is a macro, sorry 05:00:12 How is that related to compile-time or run-time? 05:00:51 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-wzdzyctvkzvkvctb] has joined #lisp 05:00:51 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-wzdzyctvkzvkvctb] has quit [Changing host] 05:00:51 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:01:18 nicdev_: once the defpackage form has been executed successfully, you can try and evaluate (symbol-package 'my-package::string-unique-index) to make sure you have the right mapping. 05:01:33 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:59 Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:29 pkhuong: ok, it has a wrong mapping cause it returns # 05:04:02 is there a way to point it to the right package? 05:04:04 bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:04:31 you can unintern the symbol, and re-read it. 05:10:16 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-191-181.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:15:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:17:16 dys`` [~andreas@krlh-5f7367ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.169.100] has joined #lisp 05:17:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.169.100] has quit [Changing host] 05:17:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:17:59 -!- dys` [~andreas@krlh-d9be7f94.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:26:47 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:26:50 -!- bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:27:00 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:28:22 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 05:31:00 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@71-34-163-250.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 05:31:56 pkhuong: any where i can read on how this is done? i tried to run (unintern 'my-package::string-unique-index :my-package) which returns T, and then executed the defpackage but trying to execute the defclass in question leaves me with the same error. i guess i am missing out something on the re-reading part 05:33:50 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 05:36:01 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.62.16] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:36:55 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:42:44 -!- sbelmont [~user@114.205.86.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:42:47 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 05:49:06 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-36-20.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:51:32 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:52:53 bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:55:31 nicdev_ any tutorial or book should cover defpackage 05:55:57 did you post a test case? 05:58:11 -!- benny [~benny@i577A81BE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:04:07 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-74-96-10-77.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:22 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 06:07:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 06:07:33 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:14:12 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-36-20.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:17:10 -!- PECCU [~peccu@ZU204198.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 06:17:20 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:18:34 -!- apwalk [~apwalk@ppp-70-246-157-126.dsl.stlsmo.swbell.net] has left #lisp 06:19:07 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-241-86-82.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 06:20:10 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 06:30:39 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 06:32:17 PECCU [~peccu@ZL196251.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:35:38 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Jubb] 06:36:12 why does (loop for i on '(1 2 3 4) with j = (car i) collect j) return '(1 1 1 1) ? 06:37:05 osa1: it should have been (loop for i on '(1 2 3 4) collect i) 06:37:33 otherwise you're establishing a constant j as (car i) 06:37:46 and then collecting that constant on every iteration 06:38:14 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:38:31 wgwg 06:39:05 osa1: also, when in doubt, try macroexpanding the loop :) 06:39:20 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 06:40:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:40:55 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:42:27 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127234 06:42:27 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:42:37 osa1: ^ 06:42:46 p_l: I have a loop like (loop for i on list do (let ((e (first i))) ...) and I'm trying to remove that (let). btw I'm using both e and i 06:43:04 expanding the loop-body shows the GOs even better 06:43:36 Phoodus: yeah, but in this case, the important stuff was mainly outside loop-body 06:44:12 osa1: it looks like you want (loop for i in ...) not for i on 06:44:31 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 06:44:32 osa1: you want FOR instead of WITH if you need the current cdr later on. 06:44:36 eMBee: no, like I said, I need both the list and the element 06:44:49 (loop for i on '(1 2 3 4) for j = (first i) collect j) 06:44:54 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Client Quit] 06:45:05 H4ns: great, thanks 06:45:24 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:56 osa1: oh, didn't catch that 06:46:06 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.124.145] has joined #lisp 06:46:40 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:47:38 chenbing [~user@122.234.219.70] has joined #lisp 06:52:08 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:52:50 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.93.198.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:52:56 or you can do (loop for (a . b) on list ....) 06:53:11 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:53:50 icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.101.86] has joined #lisp 06:53:54 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 06:54:15 chenbing: happy new year! 06:56:45 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.135.246] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:57:53 horieyui [~horieyui@183.93.198.19] has joined #lisp 06:58:05 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.101.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:58:43 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:59:11 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:45 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 06:59:48 -!- Guest63646 [~Kron@199.91.213.38] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 07:01:08 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:02:47 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:25 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:29 Haha, eMBee 07:05:09 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:05:17 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping 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[~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:59:29 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 07:59:30 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:36 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [K-Lined] 08:00:44 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 08:01:34 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:01:43 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.103.15] has joined #lisp 08:03:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-veyrdrxauzgakzxt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:05:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.72.163.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:05:31 -!- dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:31 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:08:05 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-urokwugaopvuotas] has joined #lisp 08:08:05 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:11:43 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:12:09 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 08:17:43 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Quit: ] 08:18:01 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 08:18:04 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@2a01:e35:8a53:8940:21e:64ff:fe84:8986] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:20:17 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:20:57 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 08:21:54 hi 08:22:16 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:29 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Quit: ] 08:23:44 dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 08:23:45 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 08:24:03 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Client Quit] 08:24:48 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 08:26:12 H4ns: I checked ironclad a little bit yesterday and at least compilation phase seemed to go without any big problems (although there was some 80 000(!) lines of compiler notes and style warnings, fortunately I knew what I was looking for so it took only a minute to check the log) 08:26:12 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:27:46 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-36-20.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:27:46 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:27:46 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:27:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-019.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:28:31 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-027.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:28:37 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-027.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:28:39 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-027.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:29:06 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-021.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:39 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:31:55 good morning everyone 08:31:58 by the way, is there a way to save a buffer without affecting the buffer (c-x s seems to change at least the buffer name)? 08:32:31 sorry, c-x c-s 08:34:07 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xztynptvvalbmafd] has joined #lisp 08:34:07 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xztynptvvalbmafd] has quit [Changing host] 08:34:07 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:40:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:41:50 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 08:43:02 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: kthxbye] 08:43:24 select all and save region? 08:44:07 -!- DGASAU` is now known as DGASAU 08:44:43 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 08:45:35 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 08:46:17 at least when I tried it yesterday with that 80k slime repl transcript it didn't work (I think it has worked before) 08:46:37 I mean select all 08:46:40 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:47:31 meta-coder [~meta@117.195.82.72] has joined #lisp 08:47:32 -!- meta-coder [~meta@117.195.82.72] has quit [Changing host] 08:47:32 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 08:47:47 select all is C-x h 08:47:52 and then M-x write-region 08:49:18 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:34 ok, I'll check if that works 08:50:44 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Quit: ] 08:50:55 splittist_ [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has joined #lisp 08:51:00 morning 08:51:09 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 08:51:15 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:51:20 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Client Quit] 08:54:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-027.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:54:44 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-027.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:54:47 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:55:03 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-027.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:58:44 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:10 -!- horieyui [~horieyui@183.93.198.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:02:01 -!- Guest20821 is now known as ned 09:06:17 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:07:49 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:11 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:28 nostoi [~nostoi@149.Red-81-34-97.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:18:57 -!- gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:01 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 09:21:44 gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has joined #lisp 09:22:26 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:23:07 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 09:24:32 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 09:26:14 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:20 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:29:00 hi fe[nl]ix 09:29:17 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 09:31:59 any cliki.net admins here? http://www.cliki.net/cl-xml has a link to a dead domain: http://www.cl-xml.org/documentation/dom-based-parsing.html 09:33:07 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:35:14 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mzaqasspvcuyzmqw] has joined #lisp 09:41:12 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@149.Red-81-34-97.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:41:32 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 09:42:54 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:52:59 ADildeaux [~ADildeaux@ip72-207-16-214.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:05 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 09:53:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:54:41 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:23 bohl [~bohl@dslb-088-070-077-249.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:10 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.164.178.2] has quit [Quit: ...] 09:59:23 -!- ADildeaux [~ADildeaux@ip72-207-16-214.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [K-Lined] 10:00:51 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:01:07 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-230-160.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 10:04:04 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:09:56 flip214: it's a wiki. 10:10:44 pkhuong: yes, but I hoped that someone knows the correct link ... just removing is easy, of course. 10:11:08 ah, you're right, another link is working! 10:11:18 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 10:12:22 ok, fixed 10:16:01 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:16:11 h0x00 [~Ivoc@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 10:21:07 clueless [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 10:21:32 -!- clueless is now known as Guest13805 10:22:44 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:23:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:24:27 rmathews [~roshan@59.92.87.94] has joined #lisp 10:24:31 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:26:56 leo2007 [~leo@124.72.163.37] has joined #lisp 10:31:27 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 10:33:29 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:36:17 hefner [~tehf@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:38:16 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:38:32 Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 10:41:37 -!- Frozenlock [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:41:44 -!- sureaint [~mortimer@pool-71-246-112-82.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:44:36 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-36-20.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:46:08 ivan-kan` [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 10:47:00 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:47:30 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:48:05 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:49:03 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 10:53:45 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 10:53:52 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 10:58:36 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-5-100.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:59:50 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 11:04:27 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:07:16 what are % symbols in function names for? 11:07:26 nothing 11:07:34 special 11:07:36 "danger, there be dragons here" 11:07:47 osa1: to make them ugly, and not attractive for use by strangers. 11:07:53 it's also reputed to ward off ghosts and evil spirits. 11:08:10 hahah 11:08:13 ok, thanks 11:08:19 this is particularly important, since we're always hearing how lisp is dead. 11:08:22 they are used in LoL (Let over Lambda) 11:09:16 hi hefner 11:09:33 fe[nl]ix: hi there. 11:11:38 still in Thailand ? 11:11:46 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326DEF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:52 fe[nl]ix: nah, stateside. 11:14:09 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 11:14:23 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p50829B88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:18:06 -!- Guest13805 [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:19:23 Ghoti_ [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 11:21:24 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:24:27 I'm having a little bit of trouble with log5. If I change the current working directory I get an output stream error that the log file is private to another process. 11:24:47 Is there an easy fix for someone new to lisp or would finding another log library be a better choice? 11:24:47 Ghoti_: CCL? 11:24:52 yep 11:25:21 Ah, that's a CCL thing. #ccl might be of more help if you don't find anyone who can help you with that combo here. 11:25:38 thanks, I'll check there 11:26:35 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-urokwugaopvuotas] has left #lisp 11:27:46 Ghoti__ [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 11:27:59 -!- Ghoti__ [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has left #lisp 11:28:28 -!- Ghoti_ [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has left #lisp 11:34:18 fAz4 [~amir@95.38.52.65] has joined #lisp 11:34:21 emma [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:34:24 Ghoti_ [4c1b035d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.27.3.93] has joined #lisp 11:34:34 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.87.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:36:57 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 11:37:05 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 11:38:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:42:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:46:12 -!- Frozenlo` [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:46:29 silenius [~silenius@i59F71635.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:47:16 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:57:32 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-150-149.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:02:52 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:15:32 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:16:07 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:17 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 12:18:02 Shugen [~quassel@ycl38-1-82-225-51-195.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:23 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-36-20.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:27:36 -!- fAz4 [~amir@95.38.52.65] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:28:43 phao [phao@177.115.14.64] has joined #lisp 12:29:16 Hi. Is it possible to write an operating system in lisp, even without pointers? 12:29:27 (It's just a curiosity, I don't intend to do that) 12:29:35 phao: Symbolics did it. 12:29:51 so did nyef and frodef. 12:30:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symbolics 12:30:19 true. movitz 12:30:24 thx ehy 12:30:31 phao: so, I'd say "yes" 12:31:00 phao: though I'm not sure the world needs another OS. 12:31:29 My point here is not about building another OS. I just am curious how you'd build one without using pointers. 12:31:44 I mean, what would it be like to write an OS in haskell or lisp, or ML. Stuff like that. 12:32:54 well, you'll obviously need a few device drivers which end up using memory addresses. 12:33:08 but other tahn that, I don't see a need for pointers. 12:34:15 So, the implementation should "use pointers for you" ? 12:35:59 phao: how do you think implementations are implemented? 12:36:51 Take an existing language/implementation, and write it in that language. 12:37:25 chenbing` [~user@122.234.219.70] has joined #lisp 12:37:28 phao: my CL is written in CL that jumps into the bytes it assembled itself. 12:38:01 or, if you want to go the other way: how do you think the "existing implementation"'s runtime system is written? 12:38:14 Sure, you took an existing language/implementation (CL) and wrote an implementation for CL. 12:38:42 rmathews [~roshan@59.92.17.108] has joined #lisp 12:39:24 zlszk [~user@116.114.210.169] has joined #lisp 12:39:30 phao: how do you think the new implementation runs? Is there an infinite tower of turtles supporting it? 12:39:30 -!- chenbing [~user@122.234.219.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:39:59 I don't understand what you're asking... 12:40:24 how to stop mit-scheme ? 12:40:36 phao: most of the functionality you need to write an os is already needed to write a runtime system. 12:41:11 pkhuong, Ok. I think they (the implementations) are written in a language that supports the needed features. 12:41:12 phao: yet, the vast majority of the runtime system doesn't have to deal with raw pointers. 12:41:30 phao: sure, languages such as themselves. 12:41:35 Or using an implementation that gives the "lacking language" primitives to deal with the missing pieces. 12:41:36 zlszk: ask #scheme. 12:41:58 pkhuong: ok thank you 12:42:25 pkhuong, they don't have to deal with raw pointers, but they have to deal with some other stuff that deals with raw pointers for them 12:43:48 phao: yes... lower levels of the runtime system, which can be written in the CL itself. As I said, we're already jumping into code we assembled at runtime ourself. 12:44:10 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 12:44:18 It doesn't get much lower level than that. 12:44:20 I don't get where you are trying to get at. 12:45:08 phao: I don't get why you think CL runtimes have to be written in another language that exposes pointers. 12:45:25 My CL exposes pointers and runtime machine code generation. 12:45:47 how do you get more memory? 12:46:29 phao: same as most malloc, mmap. 12:46:37 that can be done without even saying "poiters" but 12:46:37 how do you do it? 12:46:46 so you have something that gets memory for you 12:46:58 yes, the operating system, like everyone else. 12:46:58 right? 12:47:11 If there was no OS, then the question is moot. Just modify the relevant page table entries. 12:47:23 Sure. Now, how would you build that part of the operating system, for example, without it, in lisp? 12:47:24 not the veruca salt model of memory management, then 12:47:25 CMUCL had a branch that assembled its own syscalls. SBCL decided that was too much trouble. 12:47:55 phao: what art of we generate arbitrary machine code and jump into it do you have trouble understanding? 12:47:59 You need 12:48:03 direct access to memory somehow 12:48:18 ops 12:48:18 somewhere* 12:49:55 Honestly, all of it 12:51:20 I'm afraid you might have to grab a dictionary. 12:51:25 I think what you're trying to tell me is that you generate machine code that deals with memory for you. Is that right? 12:51:47 No, I just don't understand what you mean. I know what the words mean. 12:53:24 phao: or whatever you want to do. It's the ultimate escape hatch. The question isn't whether it's possible: it is if you can express it in machine code. The challenge is to always to expose a useful interface, and pointers are rarely essential features there (what ehu wrote 20 minutes ago). 12:54:22 Sure. 12:59:49 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-5-100.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:00:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:06:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:10:06 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:11:30 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:11:31 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:11:31 Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:12:06 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:23 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-150-149.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:17 thx pkhuong ehu 13:14:19 -!- phao [phao@177.115.14.64] has quit [Quit: Not Here] 13:15:32 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 13:17:02 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-188.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-188.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:18:22 Ghoti_: howdo you pronounce your name? fish? 13:20:08 That would require being illiterate. 13:22:04 -!- gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:23:27 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-19-216.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:36 gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has joined #lisp 13:25:49 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F71635.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:26:23 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:27:04 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 13:30:34 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 13:30:38 Zhivago: Or well-read. 13:32:35 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 13:33:15 touché 13:37:49 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 13:43:19 You can quote without comprehension. 13:43:31 Which is what you'd need to do here. 13:44:47 Here you'd be quoting an anoymous illiterate retard. 13:45:08 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-213-253.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 13:46:26 Isn't it a bit annoying to live in a world where everyone else is a drooling idiot? 13:46:56 I presume that it would be. 13:47:05 Fortunately I do not. 13:47:08 From the sound of it, you'd be able to tell me. 13:48:12 Tell you what? 13:48:27 How annoying it would be. 13:48:46 Can't remember seeing you express yourself here except in annoyance over the idiocy of someone else. 13:48:50 -!- zlszk [~user@116.114.210.169] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:48:56 But maybe I've just been here at inopportune times. 13:49:18 You didn't ask how annoying it would be ... 13:49:39 Have you been taking lessons in writing like a idiot? 13:49:53 Hey - let's talk about lisp! 13:50:08 splittist_: please! 13:51:04 Who has written a DynamoDB library? 13:51:48 Relevant: http://aws.amazon.com/dynamodb/ 13:52:00 eMBee: of course 13:52:12 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:52:22 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:52:50 Xach: I'm guessing you're not asking about the js one... 13:53:06 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:53:24 Nope. A CL one. 13:53:34 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:53:47 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:36 The interface seems to be all JSON, which is in contrast to the usual XML interfaces for AWS services. 13:54:59 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-184-123.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:41 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:29 solussd_ [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:44 -!- pnq [~nick@AC817872.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:59:04 could someone tell me what the 'f' and 'q' stand for in setf, setq, incf, etc 13:59:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-188.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:59:54 q is quote, from back when we only had dynamic scope and setq expanded to (set (quote variable) value). 14:00:35 pnq [~nick@AC81BE50.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:46 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:00:50 I believe the origin of the f suffix is lost in the midst of times, but you can find interesting discussions on c.l.l; it denotes macros that operate on places. 14:00:57 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-188.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:01:01 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ccpsdownmesfxtab] has joined #lisp 14:01:26 cool, thanks! 14:01:30 i remember the word "field" being mentioned 14:01:32 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 14:01:36 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 14:02:52 is there an 'increment by 1' function that doesn't operate on a location (like incf), e.g. just returns the incremented value? 14:02:52 -!- h0x00 [~Ivoc@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:03:01 solussd_: 1+ 14:03:04 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:03:06 of course. :) 14:03:08 h0x00 [~Ivoc@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:03:21 coming from clojure, all of these side-effects are throwing me 14:03:53 It might help to consider the langauges completely separate and learn each on its own terms. 14:04:23 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:07 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:05:11 JuniorRoy1 [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:05:12 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 14:05:13 Xach: yeah, I'm not expecting conceptual crossover- CL does things differently bc it can (easily) change the value of vars. When in Rome. :D 14:05:23 solussd_: you could checkout heresy library. It implements lazy sequences in Lisp. 14:05:47 I'm actually just making my way through Let Over Lambda. So far, so good. 14:06:40 I don't think I'd recommend that book as your first contact with CL learning material. 14:06:42 I just browsed through it, I'll return it later when I have more solid grasp of macros and such 14:07:00 I quite like Practical Common Lisp and Paradigms of AI Programming as introductions. 14:07:11 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 14:07:23 Land of Lisp is the best... at least considering the art work :) 14:07:34 Xach: iirc, you think that book is dead sexy. 14:07:58 I do. 14:07:59 It even says so on the cover. 14:08:02 I've got a solid grasp of macros in clojure and i've read through 'on lisp' and 'practical common lisp' in the past. I've just been away from int, using clojure, for awhile and getting reacquainted with it 14:08:03 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-60.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 14:08:03 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-60.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 14:08:03 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 14:08:16 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:08:28 *it 14:09:29 it's nice using a lisp that isn't constantly ruining my mood with java interop. :D 14:10:02 what about paul gramahams 'anso common lisp' book? it seemd to be written for intro as well. 14:10:10 erm, ansi 14:10:35 Shrawny [~sean@ppp121-45-253-60.lns20.per2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:38 skim me it- seems like reading it would be repetitive after practical common lisp 14:10:51 *skimmed it (damnyouosxautocorrect) 14:11:21 ANSI Common Lisp is more about Lisp-the-idea than Common Lisp. 14:11:34 I prefer the books that are more about Common Lisp. 14:11:43 oh 14:12:19 I like to keep ANSI Common Lisp's reference material 14:12:58 I prefer the actual spec as reference. 14:14:11 I don't have the spec in paper, though slime + hyperspec is sweet 14:15:03 not even ANSI has the spec on paper ;) 14:15:16 xach: how is ANSI Common Lisp not about common lisp? not enough examples? 14:15:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:22 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:20:41 eMBee: It has pretty short coverage of several things that are part of ANSI CL, like packages, CLOS, and extended loop. 14:21:32 eMBee: Paul Graham wrote that it's more about an ideal lisp and he picked CL because among existing Lisps it was either CL or Scheme and he went with CL. 14:22:08 He's written in various places how little regard he has for CL (vs. Lisp-the-concept), and I think that shows up in the book. 14:22:21 ah, i see 14:22:55 that can color things... 14:23:09 Do you have a hardcopy handy? 14:23:25 no 14:23:55 the first twochapters are online though 14:24:11 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@71-34-164-159.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:13 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:42 rme [~rme@50.43.152.6] has joined #lisp 14:26:04 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.38] has joined #lisp 14:26:13 *eMBee* (re references) likes to crosscheck different references, sometimes one writter can explain things differently than another. eg i found the format chapter in cltl2 more readable than the hyperspec 14:28:48 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.48.251] has joined #lisp 14:39:03 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:42:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.103.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:42:57 is #+win32 the right conditional for Windows? 14:44:03 LiamH: I think trivial-features is meant to answer questions like that. 14:44:19 Xach: yeah, I'm looking there now 14:44:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:46:13 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-237-63.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:46:28 Hmm, when SPEC says something "should be" on *featuers*, does that mean trivial-features will do it? 14:47:02 benny` [~benny@i577A854B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:47:14 -!- benny` is now known as benny 14:47:43 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-112-13.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:48:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49:47 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ccpsdownmesfxtab] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:51:23 katrinam13 [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:51:52 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:52:31 -!- katrinam13 is now known as katm_13 14:54:19 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-230-160.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:55:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-215-120-188.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:55:40 phao [phao@177.115.14.64] has joined #lisp 14:57:11 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:57:56 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-19-216.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:52 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:55 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:14 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 15:01:55 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81BE50.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:25 ayan [~ayan@fl-69-69-27-16.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:21 -!- solussd_ [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Quit: solussd_] 15:05:32 solussd_ [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 15:07:04 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-254-80.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:05 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Quit: return 0;] 15:08:38 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:08:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:09:08 -!- Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:08 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:37 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-103-224.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:10:08 -!- solussd_ [~solussd@user-0cdvten.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:10:55 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:11:45 -!- Shrawny [~sean@ppp121-45-253-60.lns20.per2.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:14:31 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.38] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 15:18:29 Yuuhi [benni@p5483ACB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:34 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:15 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-237-63.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Lark.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 15:23:02 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:48 -!- ivan-kan` is now known as ivan-kanis 15:26:03 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 15:26:53 pnq [~nick@AC82187B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:57 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 15:30:47 kgadek [~kgadek@wifi-wpa.agh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 15:31:47 bsamograd [~user@184.71.240.90] has joined #lisp 15:35:54 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:36:53 lemoinem [~swoog@83-84-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:33 -!- splittist_ [d417faa6@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.23.250.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:38:37 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82187B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:42:34 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 15:46:17 Is there a preferred way to do string interpolation in CL? I've got these SPARQL queries, that all follow the same basic template, but a few pieces of them come in as parameters to the function doing the query. 15:46:29 I know I can do (format nil "" var1 var2) 15:46:46 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rwvpqoabpjvsrhcc] has joined #lisp 15:47:05 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:11 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-403073.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:47:12 just wanted to make sure Im not missing something more efficient/obvious/lispy 15:47:35 write a macro that makes functions for your queries? 15:47:39 SurlyFrog: there are a lot of options. 15:47:53 SurlyFrog: http://weitz.de/cl-interpol/ 15:48:14 SurlyFrog: i built a small sparql library in the past 15:48:35 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 15:48:47 SurlyFrog: it's not published so far but i can probably package it up and send it your way. it's extremely rudimentary though. 15:48:58 madnificent: that could be great 15:49:27 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:37 oGMo: I thought about the macros, and I might. 15:49:44 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 15:50:38 sellout: I'm checking cl-interpol too 15:51:35 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-rwvpqoabpjvsrhcc] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:58 pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-235-253.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 15:55:44 -!- chenbing` [~user@122.234.219.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:26 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:56:49 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:56:51 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:57:48 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:59:07 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:00:00 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:00:04 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:02:16 kirka [~user@95-161-251-131.broadband.spb.TiERA.org] has joined #lisp 16:03:19 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 16:03:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:05:52 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-92b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:02 SHODAN [~shozan@c-92b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:07:47 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 16:08:46 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:46 -!- phao [phao@177.115.14.64] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:40 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:11:49 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:13:40 should the /etc/sbclrc file be automatically created by the sbcl install process or do I need to do that manually? 16:13:51 iow: if it's not there, is it because I need to run install.sh ? 16:14:25 don't think si, i don't have it either 16:14:34 so 16:14:53 Shaftoe: it is not created as part of sbcl installation. 16:15:04 Ok. thanks. 16:15:27 didn't want to just create files that ought to be part of a larger process that I failed to do 16:20:48 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5B3EDEF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:45 I must admin that connecting to multiple machines with various versions of swank gets tiresome after a while =| 16:23:00 *Xach* always uses swank from quicklisp for that reason 16:23:13 some of the machines are productions machines. 16:23:39 i.e. I don't mess with them 16:23:42 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:00 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-238.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:29:19 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:30:02 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:30:18 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:30:19 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:31:24 -!- Cosman246 [~user@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:32:23 -!- gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:55 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:33:16 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-diavkkpentoxgnxa] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:36:19 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@71-34-164-159.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:36:52 solussd_ [~solussd@rrcs-76-79-44-2.west.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:04 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:40:16 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:46 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-136-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 16:41:49 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@71-34-164-159.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:39 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:04 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 16:48:36 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 16:49:14 -!- bohl [~bohl@dslb-088-070-077-249.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:50:34 Xach: I'll have you know, btw, that I've finally started using ql on a new project I'm starting on. And the experience is quite joyful! Thanks to all of you who work on this project 16:51:31 hooray 16:51:43 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.240.147] has joined #lisp 16:51:44 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.240.147] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:41 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129025161.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 16:53:38 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:56 =) 16:55:31 hrm, is there any reason there could not be a compatibility later for clx which builds libx11 structs for passing to overly-C-dependent libraries? or does such a thing already exist? 16:56:11 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-dvvnvnohenemyelc] has joined #lisp 16:57:18 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:57:20 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:57:20 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:57:21 Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:57:22 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-60.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 16:57:33 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-60.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 16:57:33 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 16:57:53 oGMo: I haven't heard of such a thing. Did you have a particular C library in mind? 16:58:12 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 16:58:43 Xach: things like cairo which have X layers, but require C Xlib structures 17:00:20 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:01:17 my impression is that most libx11 stuff consists of IDs or static data, but i'm not overly familiar with how much blackbox data it keeps 17:01:31 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #lisp 17:02:13 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@71-34-164-159.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:04:10 -!- kirka [~user@95-161-251-131.broadband.spb.TiERA.org] has left #lisp 17:04:42 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-124-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:33 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 17:10:16 ah yeah looks like some basic things like Screen and Display are considered opaque .. 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leaving] 18:40:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 18:44:31 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:08 robde_ [~robde@pC19F7794.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:45 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 18:48:06 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:48:26 -!- robde_ [~robde@pC19F7794.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:48:30 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:13 -!- robde [~robde@pC19F7B39.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:52:54 -!- Occupied [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:55:38 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:43 *Xach* tries to get updated llvm libraries 18:58:37 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:44 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:00:34 naryl: did you find out how to solve your question? 19:02:01 mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has joined #lisp 19:04:21 Xach: in the process of updating cl-llvm for next QL? 19:05:16 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-134-179.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:04 It failed because I don't have the new libs 19:07:05 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-134-179.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 19:08:57 jdz [~jdz@host38-104-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:13:59 Occupied [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 19:14:10 Xach: Well, there is the llvm-2.9 branch if you just want to use that  not sure how many people are on 3.0 yet. 19:14:57 I don't have any real stake as a user 19:19:48 Xach: huh? You now have a stake as 10,000 users! You're the quicklisp spokesman! :-) 19:20:31 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82D872.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:21:04 ehu: There are 10,000 lispers? More of them should come to ILC! 19:21:22 Each one should send me EUR1/month! 19:21:34 *Xach* -> Full Time Quicklisp Hacker 19:21:43 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 19:21:44 Xach: Do you accept bitcoin? :D 19:21:54 Only in exchange for insulin 19:22:08 Xach: you save me more than a dollar per month, so, np. 19:22:18 heh 19:22:18 Xach: only: I'd like to make annual payments. 19:22:27 ehu: I had that option initially, actually... 19:22:40 annual payment? 19:23:00 or full time quicklisp hacking? 19:23:11 Yes. A japanese guy signed up to send $100/year about a year ago. Then his second payment rolled around and he tweeted "Apparently I am an automatic Quicklisp supporter" 19:23:18 ehu: annual payment 19:23:29 *Xach* hopes the japanese guy was not mad about it 19:23:58 well, he did it all by himself... 19:24:18 I just hope he did not sign up for something in error due to some misunderstanding. 19:25:27 *Xach* is so very behind on his postcards, also 19:25:58 what do you do with the postcards? 19:26:38 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 19:27:38 -!- pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-234-180.csuohio.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:38 -!- h0x00 [~Ivoc@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:27:55 h0x00 [~Ivoc@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 19:28:09 pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-234-180.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 19:28:23 I sent postcards to donors last year 19:28:55 *Xach* had them custom printed on zazzle with an expression of Quicklisp gratitude 19:29:08 *sellout* had his on the fridge until he moved  now I'm not sure where it got to :( 19:30:44 -!- solussd_ [~solussd@rrcs-76-79-44-2.west.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: solussd_] 19:31:39 sellout: make a new donation :-) 19:32:00 -!- h0x00 [~Ivoc@91.207.42.52] has quit [Client Quit] 19:32:37 where is next ILC? 19:32:38 that's what prompted the recollection 19:32:43 mon_key: japan 19:32:57 ouch... thats a pricey trip :( 19:32:59 http://international-lisp-conference.org/2012/index.html has details 19:33:05 mon_key: not if you live in japan 19:33:30 Xach: prob. pricey even for Japanese locals :) 19:33:45 ehu: I just did, actually. But I don't need another postcard  that should get me another 30 seconds or so of Xach's time on QL ;) 19:34:01 -!- howeyc [~howeyc@2607:f2f8:a958::2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:13 mon_key: Really? Why? 19:34:30 Xach: I guess I should donate my conference savings to fulltime QL hackers instead :) 19:35:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:36:04 sellout: I was under the impression that the train ride from Fukuoka Airport to Kyoto is not cheap 19:37:01 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:20 I suppose that depends on if you go for interior or rooftop seating 19:37:36 sellout: as compared to the TGV or Acela for example 19:37:44 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-69-203-115-155.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:35 pnq [~nick@AC8178B5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:39:54 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:16 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 19:40:17 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 19:40:18 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: Zzz] 19:40:26 Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-189-240.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 19:43:56 mishoo_ [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has joined #lisp 19:45:27 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129025161.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:45:27 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 19:45:34 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@89.41.212.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:46:54 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:05 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 19:47:10 mon_key: Shinkansen seems a lot cheaper than Acela  $70 for 100 miles to Kyoto, vs $109 for an 80 mile trip on Acela. 19:49:26 *sykopomp* imagines it must be like $5000/person for someone in the US East coast to go to ILC :< 19:49:33 more? 19:50:42 we could organize the National Lisp Conference 19:51:02 start the American Lispers United organization 19:52:09 sellout: Maybe. either way i got my airport/trainline info wrong. sorry for the noise. 19:52:15 sykopomp: I just searched for tickets  it'd be $1207 from Denver if I buy them now :) 19:53:13 sellout: + visiting tokyo, transportation, stay, misc shopping :< 19:53:39 sykopomp: Oh, for the whole conf  yeah, spendy. 19:53:59 vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-150-041.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 19:54:18 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:09 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:57:17 Xach: Or the the FYOUAL "F!$*k yeah Organization of United American Lispers" 19:58:39 Xach: Actually, I was trying to express my desire to actually be able to go to Japan. I think the visit to Japan itself is more appealing to me than the ILC :) 19:59:22 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.225] has joined #lisp 20:00:39 Yeah, I'm tempted to empty the bank account and make a family trip out of it. 20:02:27 ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has joined #lisp 20:04:01 howeyc [~howeyc@2607:f2f8:a958::2] has joined #lisp 20:04:27 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:49 Out of curiousity, have there been any recent Lisp Conferences (~10 years) in the midwest US? 20:05:07 does Reno count? 20:05:24 :) no 20:06:05 Something was in Nashville. That might have been OOSPLA. 20:06:43 I don't know if TN counts, either... 20:06:59 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-150-041.dsl.sil.at] has left #lisp 20:07:01 Well, probably not... 20:07:18 TN is midwest in my book. 20:07:51 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-wiffmiquckcjrwhc] has joined #lisp 20:08:16 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:44 rme: Yeah, Nashville was OOPSLA + Lisp 50th Anniversary. 20:09:16 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:17 wasn't 50th anniversary in Cambridge? 20:09:43 *sykopomp* lived 2 hours away, and still missed ILC '08 :( 20:09:48 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:10:00 remembering now that i missed learning about ILC by about 1 week. 20:10:11 -!- pchrist_ is now known as pchrist 20:15:37 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.179.153] has joined #lisp 20:16:20 -!- jdz [~jdz@host38-104-dynamic.15-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:16:38 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:54 dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:22:02 -!- pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-234-180.csuohio.edu] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 20:22:19 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:36 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:23:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:25:07 sykopomp: Nope, the ILC in Cambridge was "The Next 50 Years". 20:25:21 ah ok 20:25:26 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:26:09 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:26 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:34 kgadek [~Konrad@62.121.148.46] has joined #lisp 20:27:46 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:08 jdz [~jdz@host62-110-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:28:16 *maxm-* would attend if in US 20:28:25 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:28:38 hawaii would be a good choice imho :-) 20:29:21 maxm-: gigamonkey and I talked to larry hunter a bit about that. Larry hosts a computational biology (i think) conference in Aspen every year and it was hard at first to convince the employers of participants that it wasn't just a ski boondoggle... 20:29:25 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 20:29:34 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Quit: tensorpudding] 20:30:12 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:30:15 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Hunter 20:30:33 I can't believe I bragged to him about my twitter follower count :( 20:30:39 *Xach* doesn't even have a wikipedia page 20:30:57 if you don't toot your own horn, it remains untooted 20:31:18 *maxm-* should tweet that as a deep thought :-) 20:31:33 I had a pennywhistle and he a sousaphone 20:31:39 Xach: Reminds me of an organization that the pres of a company I worked for proposed: LICFROG  Leveraging Internal Currency For Recreating Ourselves Globally  or something like that. 20:32:02 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:33:02 what a wonderful word, "leveraging" 20:33:04 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 20:34:10 -!- Occupied [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:36:48 dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:40:44 Occupied [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 20:40:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@124.72.163.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:01 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:42:14 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:42:22 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:43:58 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 20:45:09 -!- Occupied [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:45:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:45:29 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-107.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:56 -!- Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-189-240.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:48:16 Xach: Hunter also had some good booze as I recall. 20:49:14 indeed he did 20:49:35 Is the upcoming ILC a stand alone conference? Because if the ILC hadn't been co-located with SPLASH last time, it would have been even more depressing than it actually was. 20:50:29 Occupied [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 20:50:56 I had a good time! Although I think I would have had an equally good time if there were no talks (well, maybe a couple) and no ALU meeting. 20:52:05 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:52:05 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:52:05 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:52:33 Xach: so we really just need to have a US Lisp Drinkup 20:52:45 dl`` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:52:45 WFM 20:53:28 I suggest you guys meet in the middle somewhere  perhaps some place with good skiing  20:53:47 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:02 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 20:54:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:54:10 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-wiffmiquckcjrwhc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:55:04 -!- Occupied [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:55:08 -!- dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:15 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:20 Maybe we should do a Lisp Land Cruise -- get one of those really nice touring busses and go all around the country picking up Lispers. 20:55:36 lolcruise? 20:55:54 lolvan/lolbus? 20:56:07 lol 20:56:49 Lisping Across America 20:57:37 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-pyslkrousfotuxwp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:57:39 gigamonkey: what are you gonna do with a butt^H^Hsload of lispers, then? 20:57:44 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:57:59 lisp, presumably 20:58:05 Internet dating startup!! 20:58:12 gah 20:58:23 s/startup/douchy startup/ 20:58:49 clupid.com  a dating site for lispers 20:59:01 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-fhgjzuksuvbnvpgd] has joined #lisp 20:59:07 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:19 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-5-100.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:59:32 make sure it involves a rich internet application, allegrograph, and a 'personal page builder DSL' 20:59:51 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:00:10 on postgresql! 21:00:33 yes, you could rebuild allegrograph on top of postgresql, I guess. 21:04:27 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:35 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-254-80.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:06:42 vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has joined #lisp 21:06:46 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:07:18 Based on 10 seconds of research, it seems like the cheapest place to fly in the US is probably Chicago since it's a big hub. 21:07:21 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:25 So a Chicago drinkup. 21:08:13 vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-150-041.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 21:09:21 Cosman246 [~user@D-173-250-189-240.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:09:30 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p5B3EDEF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:09:56 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:09:57 Occupied [~occupied@46.206.87.152] has joined #lisp 21:10:14 IIRC onshoreD (craig brozefsky) was in chicago 21:11:35 gigamonkey: But Chicago lacks that all-important skiing component  (hey guys, why not try Boulder?) 21:12:08 Actually, I would love to go to Chicago. Been there twice, but never did see much of it. 21:13:06 *Xach* wouldn't mind going too, has only seen the inside of the airport 21:13:47 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:04 I slept in chicago once! There was a snowstorm and the airport brought out a bunch of cots to the terminal :S 21:14:25 Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:34 *gigamonkey* actually visited U of Chicago 21:14:34 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:14:43 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:15:05 Is it kosher to have a (setf foo) function without an associated foo function?... 21:15:13 Yes. 21:15:25 Of course, you won't be able to do (incf (foo x)). 21:15:32 for write only data 21:15:40 Good, that's what I thought. Though I never saw anyone do this before. 21:15:44 for write-only memory 21:15:57 Though I don't actually read other people's code. ;P 21:17:38 Heh. I just had a great book idea: The Big Book of Programming Language Warts which would discuss various warts on otherwise nice languages and discuss the reasons (historical, technical, whatever) that they exist. 21:17:41 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:17:48 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:05 You could start with The Big Book of Common Lisp Warts. 21:18:06 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-153-172.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:12 *sykopomp* is immediately reminded of Erlang's deal with ,;. 21:18:44 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:22:17 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 21:22:46 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.124.145] has joined #lisp 21:24:35 Wait, it wouldn't be a Big Book, that one. ;P 21:25:02 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:55 Hexstream: isn't common lisp something like a huge, beautiful wart? 21:26:15 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:20 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:32 gigamonkey: Speaking of warts, you were complaining a bit about the package system earlier... Do you think the situation would be much improved if the number of symbols needed was cut by about, say, 33% to 50%? I have a few different ideas that could effect such a change, and I think this could have desirable repercussions such as a better willingness to :import-from instead of :use things. 21:28:11 H4ns: I'm not much interested in such abstract, philosophical musings. ;P 21:28:29 Hexstream: Do you mean across the board or just in the CL package? 21:28:41 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:28:42 gigamonkey: Across the board. 21:29:17 Hmmmm. I'm curious what your scheme is. (And not all that optimistic that I'm going to like it.) 21:29:44 Wait a sec, I think I have a file somewhere with some preliminary stuff... Where was it already... 21:29:50 The main problem I have is just that I feel I have to think pretty hard about managing name spaces. 21:30:09 The package system provides excellent control over name spaces so I can manage them. 21:30:13 The cut is only slightly less than 25% right now but I didn't go "all out" and I'm sure there are other ways to cut down... 21:30:35 gigamonkey: The cheapest place to fly in the US tends to be Las Vegas 21:30:41 because of all the casino deals 21:31:06 Phoodus: Yeah. Though the ILC at Reno put me off being at a casino. 21:31:26 But it's hard to combine namespaces without careful consideration (or, worse, without careful consideration, and instead a vague feeling of unease about unforseen name collisions.) 21:31:34 you don't have to be _at_ a casino; the fact of them being there just makes the flights cheap 21:31:41 heh 21:31:51 Phoodus: true. 21:32:09 gigamonkey: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127257 (very very preliminary...) 21:32:38 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.18.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:48 Holy shit, wait, my paste was cut down absurdly. 21:32:56 z4dch4 [~z4dch4@81.56.220.115] has joined #lisp 21:32:58 Too many newlines??... 21:34:02 Is there a way to specify a key for a loop 'for' clause? 21:34:31 -!- msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 21:34:39 (loop for x = (key (get-next-object)) do ...) 21:34:52 Ok, apparently just a paste fail on my part. http://paste.lisp.org/display/127257#1 21:35:29 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-92b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:35:29 -!- kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:35:29 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:35:34 SHODAN [~shozan@c-92b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 21:35:51 pjb: so, no? 21:36:26 peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 21:36:28 Ralith: what do you mean? I just showed you how too. 21:36:29 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:33 s/too/to/ 21:36:36 Ralith: I don't really understand your question, honestly. 21:36:36 no, you showed me how to do something different. 21:36:47 What do you omean? 21:36:59 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:37:20 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:33 Hexstream: given a form of the form (loop for x in y) I wish to specify a key analogous to the :key option common in many standard functions, i.e. a function that processes an element from Y before assigning a value to X 21:37:46 Oh. 21:37:50 Ralith: if you need both, use another for/as 21:37:52 (loop for o in y for x = (key o) ...) 21:37:58 that 21:38:06 oGMo: as? 21:38:14 as is equivalent to for. 21:38:19 also that 21:38:32 pjb: yes, I was hoping for a solutiont that didn't result in a variable that is only used once. 21:38:55 I know there are plenty of ways to accomplish something analogous 21:38:56 (loop for x in (mapcar key y) ...) 21:39:08 I wanted to know if LOOP had any special support for this usecase. 21:39:12 Hexstream: you could... have a with abstraction like pylang does. 21:39:17 (loop for x in my-list for x = (my-function x)) 21:39:27 Hexstream: I don't see how that changes much outside the CL package. 21:39:34 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:40:05 Some of those are okay (basically there are some functions that could be combined under a single generic function) and some of them look pretty horrible to me. 21:40:05 Occupied_ [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 21:40:06 -!- Occupied [~occupied@46.206.87.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:07 -!- Occupied_ is now known as Occupied 21:40:27 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:40:31 But none of them are going to affect the number of symbols exported from or used by my own packages. 21:40:35 lol (string ...) 21:40:53 francogrex [~user@109.130.108.60] has joined #lisp 21:41:12 gigamonkey: Let's say I have a library that defines a new VALIDATOR concept. Just by importing the single VALIDATOR symbol, I get the VALIDATOR class, the VALIDATOR type predicate, the (make 'validator), (ensure 'validator), (unbind 'validator), (define validator), and possibly other things. Sounds pretty interesting to me. 21:41:30 Oh, and (map 'validator) 21:41:33 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:42:22 Ralith: if the variable is used only once, why not just write the key form where you use it? 21:42:28 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-5-100.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 21:42:29 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:34 oGMo: you misunderstand 21:42:44 doubly 21:42:53 your problem specification isn't very 21:42:56 first, it was pjb's example wherein the variable was used once, not the body of my loop 21:42:59 Hi, someone who knows a bit of python can tell me whether this code can be 'easily' translated into CL (having lib support etc). It's a long code, so just having a rapid general look at it would be appreciated: http://clzz.dyndns.org 21:43:08 second, I don't want to know how to accomplish a particular goal; I was curious if LOOP had such a feature. 21:43:37 certainly it's not an obstacle if it doesn't. 21:43:45 francogrex: in general, yes. 21:43:57 Hexstream: sure. (I'm not sure I undertsand what ensure and unbind are supposed to do.) 21:44:14 Ralith: the point is that it has so many other features, you can achieve what you want easily in various ways. 21:44:20 I am aware of that. 21:44:33 I was curious to know if it had this particular feature. 21:44:36 (ensure 'generic-function) is ensure-generic-function, (unbind 'variable) is makunbound. 21:44:36 pjb: ok. It would rely mainly on what libraries in your opinion? 21:44:42 But the symbols those save (presumably make-validator, ensure-validator, unbind-validator, and define-validator are not actually the ones I'm likely to be worried about. 21:44:51 Ralith: Notice that the :key arguments are given to functions. LOOP is a macro. 21:45:09 I am also aware of both of those things. 21:45:15 Is there a common way to express a loop? I want to iterate over a list, sometimes the list will be nil. Even when it *is* nil, I want to execute the body of the loop once. 21:45:16 I'm more worried about simple names like SEND, MAKE, ROOT, etc. that can have different meanings in different contexts. 21:45:17 Ralith: what you seem to want is something that keeps a hidden variable anyway .. you can't both have only the key and keep track of what you're iterating with one thing 21:45:31 oGMo: I am aware of that, too! 21:45:33 SurlyFrog: (loop do ... while ...) 21:45:40 can't a guy ask a simple question about loop's featureset :| 21:45:54 pjb: is it that easy :-) 21:45:58 can't a guy accept an answer that's already been given? 21:46:00 simple? This is #lisp! 21:46:06 indeed. 21:46:09 I'm an idiotI was looking straight at it. thanks 21:46:10 gigamonkey: With a "universal MAKE" like I'm proposing, you wouldn't be compelled to define your own MAKE symbol, you'd just extend the universal MAKE... 21:46:16 sykopomp: nobody has actually answered the question, so that remains to be seen. 21:46:25 it seems likely that the answer is "no" though. 21:46:29 Ralith: No. 21:46:32 !next 21:46:39 see, that wasn't hard :D 21:46:55 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:59 A possible future syntax would be something like (loop for ((&transform #'my-function element)) in my-list). ;P 21:48:24 Oops, too many parentheses. Just (loop for (&transform #'my-function element) in my-list) 21:48:30 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:48:32 yes so much cleaner than just having a second for =P 21:48:47 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-36-20.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 21:48:47 I agree! 21:49:16 It's arguably closer to the actual semantics of what you mean to say. 21:49:16 Hexstream: I get it. I'm just saying that while clean in some ways, that doesn't solve the problems I have with the package system. 21:49:43 gigamonkey: Ok, well, what are they, again, specifically? 21:49:43 -!- Occupied [~occupied@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 21:50:18 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.108.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:50:33 What I said above. You either have to carefully contruct your namespaces to be sure there are no name collisions or just assume there aren't any. 21:50:40 (loop for x in #'car of list collect x) 21:51:02 The latter strategy works most of the time but always leaves me feeling a bit uneasy. 21:51:10 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:51:31 jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:39 I wonder if a clause like this could be added to MIT LOOP 21:51:50 -!- Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:00 By comparison, in single dispatch languages, whatever else their faults, it's nice to know that x.foo and y.foo can co-exist even if the two foo's mean different things because of the nampsapcing provided by the object doing the dispatching. 21:52:12 gigamonkey: heh 21:52:13 Overloading LOOP's IN doesn't seem like the cleanest idea... 21:52:20 gigamonkey: i have a module for that, but no one will like it 21:52:35 and (&transform ..) does? 21:52:37 :) 21:52:54 anthracite [anthracite@pdpc/supporter/active/anthracite] has joined #lisp 21:53:17 gigamonkey: puts everything in a common-methods package and generates a compiler macro so so (m:foo bar :x x :y y ...) gets tranformed into a unique but predictable call 21:53:24 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 21:53:47 you don't have to worry about naming (or performance) 21:53:58 New lambda-list keyword, obviously... I sometimes wish LOOP destructuring used actual DESTRUCTURING-BIND lambda-lists, at least, instead of a watered-down "permissive" version that tries to copy the semantics of multiple-values... 21:54:34 Oh, hah, I thought you were asking what &transform does. Silly me. 21:54:40 also can generate package-local calls, because it's useful for protoocol-oriented stuff 21:55:22 I sometimes with DESTRUCTURING-BIND had LOOP-style destructuring for unwanted variables. 21:55:52 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:56:18 Yeah, nil-as-ignore, that would be nice. Perhaps even better would be named ignored variables. Like (destructuring-bind (foo bar (ignored baz)) whatever body) 21:56:47 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-401639.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:01 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:57:37 (Well, unfortunately that would probably have to be (ignore baz), not (ignored baz)). I feel a bit uneasy about IGNORE vs IGNORABLE. Shouldn't it be IGNORED vs IGNORABLE instead? I guess IGNORABLE just came later... 21:57:43 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:54 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD7EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:58:25 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 21:58:26 I think you should start a new, correct dialect. 21:58:30 with its own irc channel. 21:58:34 ;-) 21:58:39 I will, in due time. 21:59:14 I've grown mildly dissatisfied with CL, as you might have gathered. Fortunately by the end of the year I should have addressed most of my concerns. 21:59:32 chee [20005@fsf/member/chee] has joined #lisp 21:59:53 did i miss it 21:59:53 it's just a phase. Some people live with it, some people become Hungarian. 22:00:29 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:38 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:00:47 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:00:51 sykopomp: No, I got over the phase you're thinking about a long time ago. 22:01:33 toekutr [~user@pe215.dvc.edu] has joined #lisp 22:01:33 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:34 It's not a newbie "I don't know jackshit about CL and don't understand it and there seems to me to be many things deeply wrong with it because I don't understand it". 22:02:45 Hexstream: but have you actually had an issue in a project with what you're talking about? 22:03:28 oGMo: I talk about many things, so I'll have to ask you to clarify which specific thing or things you're referencing. 22:03:47 carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-9-247.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:04:40 I wonder if it's possible to do package-local symbol/package aliases without diving into implementation internals. 22:05:24 Hexstream: with anything you've been talking about .. ignore vs ignorable, etc. seems like a philosophical semantic complaint 22:05:33 foom2 [jknight@nat/google/x-kelhejrwlvxwerte] has joined #lisp 22:05:42 maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 22:05:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.124.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:57 -!- sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:06:09 -!- maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:06:26 sdemarre1 [~serge@91.176.124.145] has joined #lisp 22:06:30 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 22:06:38 -!- jkantz [~jkantz@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:06:51 -!- sdemarre1 [~serge@91.176.124.145] has left #lisp 22:07:33 robde [~robde@p579034BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:34 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #lisp 22:08:57 oGMo: My dissatisfactions range from the serious/fundamental to the trivial/insignificant, and IGNORE VS IGNORED is obviously in the latter group. It's still a minor annoyance I'd fix in a new dialect. That said CL is fixable enough that I'll continue using it and improving it for many years before branching off, so you'll have me around for some time. ;P 22:09:46 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:10:16 -!- karswell__ [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:49 -!- maxm-- is now known as maxm- 22:11:33 sousousou [~bcarmer@host-72-174-54-175.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:38 -!- robde [~robde@p579034BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:57 i suppose i'm just not dissatisfied with CL and don't find it needing "fixed" 22:12:27 You wouldn't be interested in a lispy FORMAT? 22:12:50 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:13:10 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:16 There's already one princ print prin1 terpri... 22:13:17 if there's a need for something i'm sure you can extend lisp to do it 22:13:19 *H4ns* would be interested in a lispy format if it was part of a standardized lisp, well-defined and documented. 22:13:23 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 22:13:41 i haven't found a particular need for making format more verbose 22:13:42 DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.172.232] has joined #lisp 22:13:52 H4ns: Could you drop the "standardized" requirement?... 22:13:53 *sykopomp* thinks output to streams is as good, if not better, than OUT. 22:14:04 lol OUT 22:14:09 OUT sucks. 22:14:11 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.172.232] has quit [Client Quit] 22:14:22 I rest my case. 22:14:45 dare i inquire 22:14:55 pjb: I went the PRINC and friends route. It's painful for even moderately complex output. 22:14:58 no, you daren't. 22:15:01 Hexstream: not really, no. one of the biggest values of common lisp, for me, is that it does not change every other year, when the "language designer" hs found something else that he does not like and feels the need to "improve" 22:15:13 Hexstream: but that's just me. 22:15:27 what's wrong with format? 22:15:31 brown [user@nat/google/x-hcvbqslikzhydyjl] has joined #lisp 22:15:34 H4ns: Is that what brought you back from Clojure? 22:15:42 -!- katm_13 [~bombshelt@76.10.149.209] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 22:15:48 I've got to rewrite entirely an application because Apple changes its API in each version of its OSO... 22:15:51 OOS 22:15:53 the idea that everything has to be utterly consistent seems more schemey than common-lispy 22:15:53 OS 22:15:57 -!- brown is now known as Guest95200 22:16:04 H4ns: When I make my FORMAT replacement it would be well-defined, documented and wouldn't change too much over the years. 22:16:07 felideon: do you still program lisp? i have an idea for a facebook killer 22:16:10 -!- Guest95200 is now known as reb 22:16:17 sellout: i tried clojure, it was a nice experience, but i only used it once, for the planet lisp to twitter gateway which i eventually rewrote in cl :) 22:16:30 oGMo: It's based on complex interpretation of a program stuffed into a string? 22:16:43 chee: sorry I do Rails now 22:17:03 felideon: what does that mean 22:17:12 Hexstream: i might pick it up, sure. if it is sold well. format does not bite me that much, and it has the advantage of being part of the standard. 22:17:17 felideon: is that a yes 22:17:20 is Rails lisp 22:17:26 is format turing complete? i tend not to use it in overly complicated ways i suppose :P 22:17:30 oGMo: A big annoyance is that you have to separate the program from the values, instead of being able to interpolate the values where they belong... 22:17:41 oGMo: almost. You can make it with ~// 22:18:03 Hexstream: generally, i think it is a good thing to settle for standards because it helps code being readable to others. readability is not so much about sophistication, but about convention. 22:18:09 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:18:18 Hexstream: your problem still sounds like a philosophical complaint; the possibility rather than an encounter with an actual problem 22:18:30 Hexstream: but you've already said you don't read code, so you propably don't care too much whether your code is being read or readable by anyone but you (?) 22:18:38 "mentarbation" 22:18:44 *sykopomp* checks for a signal. 22:18:57 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-9-247.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:19:07 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-103-224.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:08 doesn't read code?! 22:19:20 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 22:19:57 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:56 you could complaint about the expressibility of a language without having read anyone else's writing, but it'd be silly 22:21:23 I find pretty laughable that you would advance readability as an argument in favor of, rather than against, FORMAT. 22:21:29 robde [~robde@pC19F72D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:35 -!- robde [~robde@pC19F72D0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:21:49 -!- jdz [~jdz@host62-110-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:49 -!- Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:00 I also think the lack of actual extensibility is a significant drawback, and let's ignore ~/~/. 22:22:26 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:22:28 And the fact that FORMAT directives don't use symbols, and thus don't use the package system, like pretty much everything else does. 22:22:37 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:22:43 ~/ does, but you want to ignore it. 22:23:04 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:23:09 So, my looks like this http://paste.lisp.org/display/127259. It works. Anyone see anything more "lispy" I should be doing? 22:23:16 Hexstream: you are missing the point. there is no absolute measure of "readability". i totally agree that format could be better, yet it is not. better languages than common lisp are possible, for some value of "better". 22:23:19 Joreji___ [~thomas@u-0-028.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:23:22 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.179.153] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:23:26 pjb: One of the biggest advantages of CL is that *you can make extensions that look EXACTLY LIKE as if they were part of the language all along*. 22:24:45 SurlyFrog: check the annotation. 22:24:46 Hexstream: but then, i'm not here to argue. if you want to spawn a dialect, please do. if you happen to find other hackers to speak that dialect, you'll be on a winning path. 22:24:53 so go make the format equivalent if ITERATE or similar. if people find it useful, they'll use it 22:25:21 Hexstream: (my:format t "~extension1 ~extension2" a1 a2) 22:25:24 I guess in order to have aliases in CL, I'd need to override the reader entirely, huh? :) 22:25:56 oGMo: I will and they will. ;P By the way my FORMAT replacement will have a strict superset of the capabilities of FORMAT, and will be very "conceptually compatible", so if you're already a FORMAT expert you won't have much to learn... 22:25:58 pjb: thanks. That actually might work better.since I need to do some accumulation and "foo" will likely be inside a (labels) anyway. 22:26:15 g2g eat, bbl. 22:26:17 sykopomp: no need. (setf (symbol-funtion 'alias) (symbol-function 'original)) and define-symbol-macrcoo. 22:26:34 pjb: that won't work, unfortunately. 22:26:38 SurlyFrog: it's wrong, because now the length of lst is limited by the stack space! 22:26:49 I want a general, dynamic symbol aliasing facility. 22:26:59 and also package aliases 22:27:05 sykopomp: i'd be satisfied with package aliases 22:27:08 pjb: what's wrong. Your annotation, or my original one? 22:27:13 -!- Guest48678 [~Kron@129-97-120-238.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:27:24 H4ns: I think I would, too, actually. Practically speaking. 22:27:34 H4ns: local package aliases? 22:27:35 sykopomp: i've been switching to one-package-per-file a while ago, and it works pretty well. except for the flat namespace problem. 22:27:39 (:alias :yason :json) 22:27:59 SurlyFrog: my annotation. The point being that implementations don't have to implement TCO. 22:28:01 H4ns: I have some fun macros to make one-package-per-file easier! 22:28:41 sykopomp: it already is easy, and i don't want to alienate my fellow hackers by using macros to cover what's going on. 22:28:47 pjb: you knowI can substitute the (pop lst) with (car lst) and make the call tail recursive with (cdr lst) 22:28:57 sykopomp: (for local package aliases, i'd be willing to abandon cl:defpackage) 22:29:09 -!- foom2 [jknight@nat/google/x-kelhejrwlvxwerte] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:30:03 foom2 [jknight@nat/google/x-dyhqensvtphmgsiy] has joined #lisp 22:30:12 H4ns: I guess for -those-, you'd need to patch the reader. 22:30:18 that may actually not be very hard to do. 22:30:29 SurlyFrog: That would do you no good, since implementations don't have to implement TCO. 22:30:33 H4ns: wasn't pkhuong working on that? 22:30:35 sykopomp: i use three readers now :/ 22:30:43 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:49 H4ns: :\ three of them? 22:30:58 pjb: is TCO tail-recursive optimization? (Tail Call Optimize)? 22:31:14 SurlyFrog: yes 22:31:16 sykopomp: yeah, i've moved away from modern mode and use acl, ccl and sbcl interchangeably 22:32:23 H4ns: oh that. I think it would be worth exploring whether the patch can be fairly unintrusive and a library can be provided to do it on multiple implementations. 22:32:31 acl might be harder, of course. 22:32:32 got it. I'm not terribly worried about that at this point, AllegroCL does, and I won't be moving to anything else anytime soon. Otherwise, was my original iterative approach was fine? 22:32:44 Sure. 22:32:50 sykopomp: well, screw acl :) 22:33:00 H4ns: yeah, basically ;) 22:33:04 SurlyFrog: I was just poking fun at your wanting for a lispier solution. 22:33:15 but I'd definitely want it in at least CCL and SBCL 22:33:20 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 22:33:30 pjb: oh :-) I missed that. Though I do appreciate you looking at it 22:35:00 hi 22:35:03 pjb: hi 22:35:11 hi 22:35:16 flip214: hi, post decrement? 22:35:33 We're the knights who say hi. 22:35:37 Kazinator [~kaz@S0106687f7426d0eb.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:27 robde [~robde@p57902C9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:30 knights or sheriffs? 22:36:36 anryx [~anryx@78.108.144.215] has joined #lisp 22:36:39 -!- anryx [~anryx@78.108.144.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:36:51 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QTQfGd3G6dg 22:40:02 sykopomp: i think package-local nicknames would be a good candidate for a cdr 22:40:19 -!- robde [~robde@p57902C9E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:40:20 paul0 [~paul0@177.96.53.205] has joined #lisp 22:40:31 H4ns: I'd like to implement a basic demo and give them a whirl. 22:40:40 looks like it'll be pretty easy in CCL. 22:40:53 sykopomp: sbcl also looks easy 22:41:01 DataLinkDroid [~David@123.208.172.232] has joined #lisp 22:41:41 you know about https://github.com/3b/package-local-nicknames presumably? 22:42:06 no 22:42:14 I forgot! 22:42:30 *H4ns* reads 22:42:32 work in that direction, probably useful 22:44:17 heh. I guess SBCL is testable. :) 22:45:52 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:51:17 does that actually use anything you couldn't do in any lisp? i see sb-impl::%defpackage called, but that seems mostly due to rewriting CL:DEFPACKAGE which doesn't really need done 22:52:42 stringify-package-designator, but that's trivial 22:53:07 oGMo: it's likely doable in most implementations, but it wouldn't be CL anymore. 22:54:01 sykopomp: howso? assuming you didn't change cl:defpackage, and had my:defpackage 22:54:28 oGMo: you need to mess with the reader. 22:54:44 or actually, maybe not. 22:55:00 that doesn't mess with the reader 23:01:07 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-36-20.lns3.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:02:18 Frozenlock [~user@cable-quebec-15.246.173-179.electronicbox.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:48 ASau` [~user@95-24-206-218.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:05:05 -!- dl`` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:07:11 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:07:39 -!- ASau [~user@95-24-215-26.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:07:56 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:08:09 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.38] has joined #lisp 23:08:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.38] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:08:28 H4ns: but as 3b told me, pkhuong is working on something similar to package-local-nicknames and 3b isn't pursuing his efforts on it 23:08:32 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.213.38] has joined #lisp 23:09:24 *madnificent* would like to see continued work in that direction though 23:09:32 <|3b|> more that it just hasn't been enough of a priority to get to specifying all the details. i still use it, and would like to see it more places 23:10:19 ah, so package-local-nicknames could be used and it could be the library which is extended? 23:10:59 |3b|: also, i couldn't find pkhuong's efforts in that direction 23:11:50 <|3b|> ideally, someone works out the details and various implementations add it as an extension, and if needed, we hack it into more implementations the way my code currently does for sbcl 23:12:32 |3b|: I'm counting on you to figure the details out 23:12:53 deadlock 23:13:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:13:05 <|3b|> pkhuong: in that case most of the details probably get resolved as "don't do that, it will break" :p 23:13:24 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.48.251] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:13:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:13:38 <|3b|> since i tend to not do most of the things that risk breaking (like relying on print-read consistency) 23:13:50 myeah. Same here. 23:13:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:14:47 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 23:16:16 couldn't we throw an error on all currently unclear edge cases and see what makes sense in practice from there on? 23:17:18 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-055-116.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:21 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-18-2-15.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:35 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-124-079.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 23:21:22 waveman [~tim@124-168-114-219.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 23:22:47 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 23:23:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-153-172.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:25:48 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@74-84-107-90.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:28:41 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:29:30 -!- JuniorRoy1 [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:30:25 -!- emma is now known as em 23:32:51 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:33:10 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-138.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:16 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-138.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:33:16 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 23:34:09 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:27 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has left #lisp 23:35:05 hi 23:35:26 any acl2 user? I've got problem on tutorial http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/moore/publications/flying-demo/script.html#enter15 23:35:43 (pe 'perm) return me an error 23:38:58 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-127-46.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:39:05 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:39:34 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-124-95.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:40:20 -!- Shugen [~quassel@ycl38-1-82-225-51-195.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:14 rgrau_ [~user@125.Red-79-158-83.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:16 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@c-66-30-3-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:59 I would like to implement a protocol in CL, but I've never done it before. Is there a package here http://www.cliki.net/networking that would make a good example? 23:59:19 Frozenlock: what (kind of) protocol are we talking about? 23:59:21 wanderingelf [4817e03b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.59] has joined #lisp 23:59:35 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-213-253.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:45 Bacnet (ethernet and/or ip)