00:00:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:01:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:01:57 Anyone have any idea how to extending completion hints in slime? 00:02:38 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:02:55 ahh. 00:03:19 I have a bunch of images I'd like to turn into a moving picture. I was wondering if perhaps you had a lisp stack that would do it. 00:03:22 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-013.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 00:03:29 s/had/knew of 00:03:52 Fade: skippy can make gifs, but it doesn't dither/quantize 00:05:28 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:43 I was looking at lisp-magick 00:06:09 but the docs don't exist except for the C api at the image magick site. 00:06:42 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:07:58 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128127004.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:10:09 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:05 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-179-245.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:12:37 Xach: hopefully this switch to octopress will be seamless. 00:13:17 good, i hate seamy switches 00:13:43 -!- ApeShot [~user@cpe-076-182-098-158.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:55 and it's now past midnight in portugal, and I have sessions to attend tomorrow (: good night 00:16:36 Guthur: the function you want is (lambda (x) (cons (car x) (list (cdr x)))) ; there is always a function to do anything, you just have to find its name! 00:18:00 pjb: yep, that is pretty much the function I found there 00:18:03 carbocal` [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 00:20:08 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:20:55 The point is that there is always a function to do what you want (as long as it's computable). 00:21:11 There's no point in asking if there is one. 00:23:17 -!- carbocal` [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:23:45 pjb: granted for this case it wasn't a great question but considering how much functionality there is included in CL I think it is worth asking sometimes 00:23:55 no point reinventing wheels 00:24:37 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-179-245.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:24:42 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:25:43 "is there a function to do x?" really means "is there a built in function to do x that I don't need to write?" 00:26:04 nialo-: lambda forms are names for "anonymous" functions. 00:26:17 That is not the point at all 00:26:30 nialo-: all anonymous functions are built in. 00:26:37 You just have to write their names :-) 00:26:56 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:26:59 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 00:27:15 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:27:42 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:54 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:28:26 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-198-255-25.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:26 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:29:27 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 00:30:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:33:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 00:33:49 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:42 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:36:50 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 00:37:06 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:37:20 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 00:37:49 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:38:13 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:39:21 pjb: That's a pretty useless and pedantic answer, though 00:39:38 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:40:06 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:40:42 jacius: admitedly. Perhaps a more pertinent answers is that in CL are functions that have a chance to be useful in more than one program. 00:41:02 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.218] has joined #lisp 00:41:04 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.221] has joined #lisp 00:41:12 (lambda (x) (list (car x) (cdr x))) is quite specific, there's no point in having it in CL. 00:41:47 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-198-255-25.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:43:02 glompst [mike@149-169-208-8.nat.asu.edu] has joined #lisp 00:44:14 QuantumParadox [~quantum@ip70-191-240-246.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:15 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 00:47:09 I'd say the ideal answer to "Is there a function to do...?" is simply one of: "Yes, have a look at " or "Yes, has " or "No, you'll need to write it yourself". 00:47:54 Yes, but that's not enlightning. 00:49:29 I don't think most people asking such questions really need to be enlightened about what criteria were used to select functions to be included in the standard 00:49:49 Sure they need it. Otherwise they wouldn't ask those questions. 00:49:57 Heh 00:50:13 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:50:25 pspace [~andrew@137.148.253.164] has joined #lisp 00:51:38 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:52:59 CL has many, many functions, some of them useful only in unusual circumstances. It wouldn't have surprised me if there *was* a standard function to do exactly what he was asking about. 00:53:22 That's because you don't know CL yet. 00:53:43 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:54:04 An important skill in #lisp is when to pay attention to pjb. 00:54:14 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:54:34 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:50 Xach: I'll work on developing that skill. ;) 00:56:54 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:56:56 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:52 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:23 a subtle art 01:04:10 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.218] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:04:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 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#lisp 01:55:53 beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-76-254-43-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:59:49 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:01:39 -!- vairav [~vairav@209.49.23.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:02:53 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:16 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 02:06:19 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.153.59.105] has joined #lisp 02:06:19 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:04 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2917F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:08:47 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 02:08:52 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:33 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:52 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 02:19:12 hydo [~hydo@69.170.161.42] has joined #lisp 02:21:57 gko [~gko@27.246.91.98] has joined #lisp 02:21:57 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:22:58 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 02:25:04 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:38 cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.95.113] has joined #lisp 02:25:56 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:30 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 02:28:31 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:40 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-150-51.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:29:02 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 02:30:40 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Client Quit] 02:33:05 how can i encode a stream to a file with unicode support 02:33:48 Implementation dependant. In clisp: (with-open-file (out path :direction :output :external-format charset:utf-8) (princ "hello" out)) 02:34:33 http://www.cliki.net/CloserLookAtCharacters 02:34:35 i am using s-dot, which is a library that creates a dot file of given graph structure for graphviz, but since the node names in my structere have unicode chars, i have encoding error 02:34:37 sbcl 02:35:17 s/charset:utf8/:utf8/ for sbcl, IIRC. 02:36:15 -!- hydo [~hydo@69.170.161.42] has quit [Quit: hydo] 02:36:16 thanks pjb :) 02:37:22 kenanb: you may also havev a look at the babel library. 02:40:01 -!- SurlyFrog1 [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:41:59 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483AEE5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:14 teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has joined #lisp 02:43:10 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B18C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:45:33 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has joined #lisp 02:46:38 pjb: is the s/foo/bar a vim thing? 02:46:54 or vi 02:47:26 kenanb: sed 02:48:32 ah, thanks p_l|brage 02:48:59 btw, what happened to the channel, there used to be a lot of chatting here 02:49:17 now whenever i join, still lots of people but no talk at all 02:49:39 i mean not random chatting, conversations on lisp 02:50:02 I don't know 02:50:31 kenanb: maybe it's *when* you join 02:50:55 maybe 02:50:56 it's 0250 UTC, and a lot of people here seem to be on the east side of Greenwhich :) 02:51:09 Ah 02:52:05 I wonder if Symbolics is still in business--their website is laughable 02:52:42 "kinda" 02:53:10 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:43 i sometimes wonder how the hell they got the first registered domain in the history of web 02:53:48 I recall hearing about someone buying an OpenGenera 2.0 license + support contract from them some time ago (~2006?), and there were screens floating of PPC and x86-64 versions of OG2 02:54:03 kenanb: first *commercial*, iirc 02:54:04 but i don't search to learn how, i like wondering it 02:54:13 I'm pretty sure SRI beat them ;) 02:54:18 Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:54:41 also, I think it was first commercial DNS domain, or first DNS .com domain 02:55:28 yeah, first .com domain, you're right 02:55:53 I'm pretty sure SRI-NIC had if not the first domain ever, then one of the first 10 02:56:13 Speaking of which, what sort of license is OpenGenera 2.0 under? 02:56:28 Cosman246: "Commercial" 02:56:33 ah 02:57:12 *p_l|brage* is reminded that he still hadn't mailed Franz sales for those ACL non-commercial licenses -_-; 02:57:17 It's sad to see what appears to have been a glorious codebase go to waste 02:57:56 I'm not sure it is worth that much these days 02:58:30 VLM tools and sources, and implementation notes... That I could use. Probably some other stuff. 02:58:56 It had compilers for many popular languages in Lisp 02:59:10 (e.g. C, FORTRAN, and Pascal) 02:59:20 as well as a CLIM gui 02:59:33 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:59:41 but I would rather build a hosted environment that could mimic some of Genera's stuff in normal implementation. AFAIK Factor has something like that... 02:59:49 bgbg [~bgbg@213.140.59.46] has joined #lisp 03:00:15 Speaking of which, how does one go about walking into Mordor^W^W^W installing McCLIM? 03:00:49 not exactly like genera, but it has a nice environment of its own 03:00:54 p_l|brage:linky? 03:00:54 very nice in fact 03:01:10 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:01:31 kenanb: I don't mean exactly like Genera, but kind of providing a ready-made portable "OS shim" 03:02:09 Cosman246: to install McCLIM: (ql:quickload 'clim) 03:02:38 p_lbrage: What is Factor? 03:02:46 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.7.44] has left #lisp 03:02:46 Cosman246: a programming language 03:02:59 Ah 03:03:18 Cosman246: http://factorcode.org/ 03:03:20 Cosman246: a cool multiparadigm language with postfix syntax 03:04:45 ah 03:05:59 What about the Closure web browser? 03:06:35 -!- bgbg [~bgbg@213.140.59.46] has left #lisp 03:08:44 i haven't tested it 03:09:19 i like mcclim but it doesn't seem to be maintained any more 03:10:33 The Closure documentation commands the usage of asdf-install 03:10:37 >.<;; 03:12:59 chenbing [~user@115.205.7.44] has joined #lisp 03:13:18 Cosman246: (ql:system-apropos ...) is your friend 03:13:59 No it's not. Closure is not on quicklisp 03:14:20 hmmm... it seems so 03:14:23 Cosman246: they sold their domain a couple of years ago. 03:14:29 only the more useful parts of it are 03:15:10 Cosman246: their current domain is http://symbolics-dks.com/ 03:15:23 pjb: I know 03:15:28 I checked out the new one 03:15:39 lol. I just found Common Lisp, Lisp Machine and Genera references in a figure in one of my lecture slides 03:16:55 (it was included in some system referenced by the lecture, and the screenshot had them mentioned) 03:18:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:19:50 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:56 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:46 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-150-51.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:35 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:12 _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.112.115] has joined #lisp 03:26:41 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:27:19 -!- kirkwood [~user@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:43 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:32:50 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.92.112.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:41:14 csdserver [~csdserver@76.177.111.55] has joined #lisp 03:44:03 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sfwddwtkysewuosj] has joined #lisp 03:45:23 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:49:04 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:49:16 turtool [~hi@ip72-201-171-74.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:32 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:46 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:49:56 is there a way of specifying a type on a defun input? such as only an int or float? 03:50:07 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:28 -!- kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:50:29 ex: (defun foo (:int bar)()) 03:50:39 clhs declare 03:50:48 ah, minion isn't there 03:51:08 kuzary [~who@gateway/tor-sasl/kuzary] has joined #lisp 03:51:10 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_declar.htm 03:51:26 (declaim (ftype (function (int) t) foo)) (defun foo (bar) 'something) 03:52:41 this may not do what he expects. 03:52:46 pjb: I believe he wanted (defun foo (bar) (declare (type fixnum bar)) ...) 03:53:23 im used to c-style languages where you can specify the type of input 03:53:24 he may have in fact wanted (check-type bar 'fixnum) 03:53:41 Yes, check-type is what should be used. 03:53:47 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-189.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:02 turtool: note that CL does not have C-style ad-hoc polymorphism. 03:54:32 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f713487.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 03:55:51 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:55:53 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f713dc2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:57:09 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit 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has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:26:59 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #lisp 04:27:49 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:27:58 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 04:28:11 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:28:46 -!- kanru`` is now known as kanru` 04:34:40 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:34:42 kwertii [~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii] has joined #lisp 04:34:43 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-150-51.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:34:56 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 04:51:02 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 04:52:20 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.95.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:53:26 -!- Guest1078 [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 04:54:54 -!- rme [rme@323D5415.47C9A248.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:54:54 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.137.115] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:55:57 -!- ovechkin [~ovechkin@c-24-1-36-10.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:56:04 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-126.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:56:12 rmathews [~roshan@122.174.38.127] has joined #lisp 04:59:51 persi [~persi@076-076-146-017.pdx.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:38 What is C-style ad-hoc polymorphism? 05:00:53 :-) 05:01:42 I suspect that was a humorous one, indeed : -) 05:02:02 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 05:02:58 Guest1078 [email@89.180.153.189] has joined #lisp 05:03:07 C allows for arbitrary reinterpretation at syntactically-specified points, I see. 05:04:51 ..not something you can do without direct tag manipulation. 05:06:14 ..and even so, you are likely to violate GC invariants, AIUI. 05:06:21 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:38 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 05:06:49 but maybe I'm imagining things 05:06:56 depends on GC 05:08:16 I suspect type-specific areas like what I imagined for a possible lisp system might get hurt by such manipulation 05:09:07 (Where you have separate area for non-pointer-containing data, with arrays being their own specialized subareas, and separate "CONS" area type) 05:17:18 -!- sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:53 ovechkin [~ovechkin@c-24-1-36-10.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:23 -!- teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:29:19 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.214.37] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:31:51 cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.95.113] has joined #lisp 05:32:07 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined 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orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 07:05:14 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 07:06:28 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii] has quit [Quit: bye] 07:07:04 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:29 teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has joined #lisp 07:09:14 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyRomy] 07:09:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-178-126.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:10:42 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 07:11:22 -!- QuantumParadox [~quantum@ip70-191-240-246.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:13:07 -!- maja1122 [~chatzilla@173-29-191-236.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:14:49 turtool [~hi@ip72-201-171-74.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:35 Is there a way of creating a polymorphic form of #'+ so that I can add my arithmatic of structures to the same function name? 07:16:06 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:16:45 turtool: use your own package and override #'+ with a generic function 07:20:23 *jjkola_work* is able to load cxml-stp with :invert readtable case \o/ 07:20:52 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:29 although there will surely still be stuff which needs to be fixed to make it fully work, but hey, at least it lods :-D 07:22:39 s/lods/loads/ 07:22:50 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 07:23:21 QuantumParadox [~quantum@ip70-191-240-246.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:34 -!- QuantumParadox [~quantum@ip70-191-240-246.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:26:10 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 07:30:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:31:57 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.32] has joined #lisp 07:33:17 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:34:09 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 07:34:12 ovechkin [~ovechkin@c-24-1-36-10.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:23 jjkola_work: do you have a specific reason why you want readtable-case :invert? 07:34:48 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.117.181] has joined #lisp 07:35:48 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:37:27 H4ns: I want cxml and xmlisp to work alongside while I do some testing and as I needed case sensitivity for xmlisp... 07:37:41 jjkola_work: ah, xmlisp. ok. 07:38:24 time is always a good counselor, especially if you have it :). I'm starting to think that Kuma project should not be both an http and an application server to prevent memory and resources sharing among different applications. Now I'm wondering this: for php, python and so on applications I'll have a fast-cgi like module, but for lisp ones I don't know if fast-cgi is the best solution. What do you think 07:38:26 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-151-211.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:28 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 07:38:38 -!- dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f713487.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:39:10 depends on the goals 07:39:35 if you want to just separate the HTTP handling, fast-cgi or an equivalent protocol might be enough 07:39:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:40:00 dys` [~andreas@krlh-5f713487.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:02 I suggest putting the http server into your application, instead. 07:40:09 -!- dys` is now known as dys 07:40:19 Otherwise you'll just be reinventing Apache, only badly. 07:40:22 why not just use http instead of using proprietary interconnect protocols like fastcgi? 07:40:29 p_l|brage, even if we are deling a lisp2lisp communication ? 07:40:30 Indeed. 07:40:38 you might however want to build a generic IPC that could facilitate not only HTTP, but some other elements. I don't know enough about the project to decide 07:41:02 H4ns: ... since when fastcgi was "proprietary"? 07:41:25 Just provide a minimal http interface for your application's requirements, and then stick a proxying cache in front for the extra stuff. 07:41:28 p_l|brage: proprietary as "not a standard network protocol" 07:41:39 p_l|brage: sorry for not using a more precise word 07:41:44 RazWelles_ [~RazWelles@c-76-108-49-181.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:42:12 Hans probably means something like "ad hoc" or "rubbish". 07:42:22 are you suggesting to keep all get and post req. parameters handling inside the Kuma ? 07:42:24 -!- RazWelles [~RazWelles@c-76-108-49-181.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:42:27 H4ns: I was just dumbfounded for a moment, being used to "proprietary" meaning "closed source crazy" 07:42:45 -!- Jubb [~ghost@pool-72-66-102-48.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:42:51 kiuma: you should not invent new words like "the kuma". use generic terms. 07:42:59 kiuma: is there someplace I could learn more about this project? 07:43:06 yes 07:43:16 I'm suggesting a minimal http server in a library that is set up and run by the application. 07:43:33 as for how to interconnect... my current project has HTTP in only one place, the frontend that deals with JS clients. 07:43:33 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:43:43 As opposed to having the application set up and run by the http server. 07:44:03 p_l|brage, https://github.com/kiuma/kuma 07:44:06 Zhivago: he wants to write an "application server" i think 07:44:08 jaykub_ [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:24 but you have to adjust buffers to have speed :) 07:44:34 -!- jaykub_ [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:44:39 it's an heavy on work project 07:44:47 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 07:45:05 Hans: Yes. I am suggesting that he do the opposite, instead. 07:45:23 Zhivago: but he wants to write an application server! 07:45:31 Zhivago: :) 07:45:49 Just because he wants to do it doesn't mean that it's a good idea. 07:46:04 H4ns, I want to have both http and application server, event-driven/threaded-queue hybrid 07:46:12 Zhivago: i agree. 07:46:38 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Client Quit] 07:46:45 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:46:53 kiuma: Why? What problem are you trying to solve? 07:47:14 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:54 I want speed, I want coding in lisp, I want something similar to liferay but faster, lighter, and in CL 07:48:47 That isn't a problem. 07:48:48 "Liferay Portal is an enterprise web platform for building business solutions that deliver immediate results and long-term value." 07:48:55 *buzz* *buzz* 07:49:05 Not knowing what problem you're trying to solve is probably your fundamental problem. 07:49:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xuehorbcvcpisotb] has joined #lisp 07:49:38 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-xuehorbcvcpisotb] has quit [Changing host] 07:49:38 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:49:50 H4ns: ... "web" was the only word in that sentence that had less than 0.5 buzz... o_O 07:50:07 kiuma: I would rather imitate OTP 07:50:20 OTP ? 07:50:39 kiuma: Erlang's "big app" support libs 07:51:05 part of what makes Erlang VM look more like operating system than a language implementation 07:51:16 kiuma: i would rather write some applications and grow a framework from the experience. 07:51:41 H4ns, anyway kuma is not complitely invented, Kuma is a bear, and one day maybe it will be an option for Claw, other than Hunchentoot 07:51:50 H4ns: I'll second that mightily. Unless you already have written apps that you can draw common abstractions & needs from 07:52:05 H4ns, that is a Claw task 07:52:21 kiuma: how does "claw" suffer from speed problems? 07:52:59 uncontrolled threading and directly serving static resources 07:53:36 kiuma: sounds like a problem that could be solved by a front-end cache easily. 07:53:54 kiuma: Not using threading is usually a solution for those problems. 07:54:21 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:33 Zhivago: i think that is what he tries with the "event-oriented" thing 07:55:46 H4ns, correct ... and in a mixed way 07:56:24 Why not make it request oriented? 07:56:25 anyway quoting a guy on #web, if there wasn't anybody reinventing the wheel we would still have stone wheels. 07:56:58 I discovered a while ago that we only entered the iron age because we ran out of copper or tin. 07:57:11 :) 07:57:16 Bronze being superior to iron for all extant uses. 07:58:13 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:21 infact I like threading and I don't want to complitely get rid of them :P 07:59:24 What do you like about threading? 08:00:15 *Phoodus* doesn't understand why threaded coding isn't default programmer thinking 08:00:25 everybody is able to understand threading, not everyone is able to work in an event-driven environment 08:00:28 where going serial would be for some esoteric, opt-in requirement 08:00:48 kiuma: What you like about threading is that everyone is able to understand it? 08:01:00 yes 08:01:07 Phoodus: You're confusing threading with parallel. 08:01:32 kiuma: I think that you are drowning in a pool of incoherent gibberish. 08:01:41 no I'm not, even on single-core systems, throwing threaded IO and job stacks really help even without true parallelism 08:02:10 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128191122.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 08:02:13 Phoodus: Coroutines. 08:02:18 I'd like to have at least a small small small possibility to sell a web application written in CL. 08:02:21 Phoodus: that's because most programmers never encountered async I/O 08:02:26 evan here in Italy 08:02:42 Phoodus: and a lot of OSes don't have, or don't advertise support for async i/o too much 08:02:42 Phoodus: Threads are a conflation of the two. 08:02:53 Zhivago: right, and that's a good thing :) 08:03:07 phoodus: It's the worst of both worlds. 08:03:17 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:03:28 it's sellable ! 08:03:48 threading is sellable 08:03:54 -!- gko [~gko@27.246.91.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:04:04 now of course, threads are pretty low-level fiddly constructs. Building parallel or blocking systems on top of it is always more useful than dealing with raw OS-level async bits directly 08:04:14 gko [~gko@27.240.194.232] has joined #lisp 08:05:16 kiuma: It doesn't scale, so not for long. 08:05:28 vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 08:06:20 Zhivago, it's for this reason that I have a thread queue instead of a wildly growing forest of threads 08:07:10 kiuma: you think your ability to sell a web application in lisp depends on whether it is implemented with multiple threads? 08:07:40 kiuma: you must be in a very strange market. my customers don't care about thread at all. 08:07:51 kiuma: and mind you, my customers are very tech savvy 08:08:01 my customers would be pissed if they bought software and it didn't use the many-core resources they spent money on 08:08:06 no, it depends by the fact that even a 'normal' programmer is able to put his hands on 08:08:33 kiuma: a "normal" programmer wants to read documentation. 08:08:38 H4ns, infact here in Italy we are full of projects written in CL 08:08:55 H4ns, I'll write it as well 08:10:13 Phoodus: my customers care about performance, not core utilization. 08:11:05 well yeah, if it underperforms while not even utilizing the system, it's an easy "You people are incompetent programmers" 08:11:30 a 'normal' programmer wants something gentle, like coding ease, good documentation, tutorial and books like PCL 08:11:58 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.1.76] has joined #lisp 08:12:04 H4ns: but they also do care in terms of what expenditure in hardware they need to lay out in order to run the software, especially if they're trying to reuse prior investmen 08:12:06 t 08:12:39 iterate's COLLECT has a RESULT-TYPE clause, with default 'list ... I want to prepare a vector, is there a way to give the dimension first? 08:12:59 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:13:31 I want to avoid reallocation; of course I can do (with result = (make-array ...)) (setf (aref result i) ...) (finally return result) but I'd hoped for COLLECT 08:14:12 Phoodus: that's not an argument. single-core cpu's are largely unavailable today. just because i have many cores does not mean that i need to use them from one application, as long as i can meet the set performance goals. 08:14:34 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:14:55 if your customer says "How many cores should I buy for the servers?" and you say "Well, buy something with good single-core performance, because we don't thread", that cheapens your product 08:14:56 Phoodus: writing parallel programs is hard, and it stays hard. 08:15:08 it's not hard 08:15:14 it never was hard 08:15:34 Phoodus: you've lost me. 08:15:36 sometimes it's hard to get _scaling_, but it's never hard to write a program parallel and properly 08:15:59 Phoodus: ah, so it is easy to write parallel programs that are slow. i agree to that. 08:16:28 but even the most naive competent parallel programming should be faster on multicore than single 08:16:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:17:10 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Quit: ddp] 08:18:49 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:18 Maybe you are in Heaven and you code for God, but I've often seen applications that are not solw, that are more, that want a NASA server just to run. Ok, but go to that people and tell them thay need to forget threads and codeing habits 08:19:19 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:20:10 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:20:11 *they - *coding 08:20:27 kiuma: I don't think it's people coding for God, but people coding for hobby or non-performance related academic research 08:20:43 leoncamel [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:20:53 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 08:20:55 T0by [~To8y@static-217-133-64-53.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:21:06 Phoodus, untrue 08:23:06 I don't think anything in my current project explicitly mentions threads yet can be very scalable 08:23:49 Phoodus, untrue https://telematico.agenziadogane.it/TelematicoFunzioniDiAccessoWEB/FunzioniDiAccessoServlet?UC=10&SC=1&ST=1 08:24:27 Phoodus, untrue http://www.sanita.regione.lombardia.it 08:24:37 do I have to continue ? 08:24:56 a NASA-specific server architecture would probably be a 486 08:25:10 :) I agree :) 08:25:10 the rest is COTS these days ;) 08:26:16 kiuma: so the health management industry is saying to get rid of threads? I don't quite get it 08:26:42 (the first link just timed out, only saw the 2nd one, translated) 08:27:39 Phoodus, and think that the first is Italian Customs! 08:28:09 this is the average quality around 08:28:12 and those are examples of people who want to get rid of threads? 08:29:57 no this hare an exaple when you told in reply of "I've often seen applications that are not solw, that are more, that want a NASA server..." -> "but people coding for hobby or non-performance related academic research" 08:30:00 Phoodus: plenty of high performance computing that only uses processes. 08:30:06 *are 08:31:06 kiuma: I was referring to your "Maybe you are in Heaven and you code for God" part, not the other part 08:31:14 Phoodus: FWIW, I think academics tend to gratuitously parallelise code more than the reverse effect. We (grad students) are free, and it's an easy way to improve on previous work. 08:31:14 s/no this hare an exaple when you told/no these are an exaple when you told/ 08:31:30 ahh :) 08:32:02 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:32:39 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:34:03 TeMPOraL [~user@195.205.210.160] has joined #lisp 08:35:10 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-23-71.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 08:35:10 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-23-71.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:35:10 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 08:35:23 cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has joined #lisp 08:37:55 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:38:00 attila_lendvai1: feature request for reiterate: I want to _build_ a vector of size N, and set its elements. 08:38:03 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:38:12 similar to (make-array N :initial-contents ...) 08:38:37 *attila_lendvai1* makes a note 08:39:17 perhaps (iter (for i new-vector N collecting (* i 2)))? anonymous vector, like return list? 08:39:21 thanks a lot. 08:39:41 or is that already possible _without_ explicitly (with result = (make-array ...)) etc.? 08:40:34 Mush [~Mush@117.192.150.229] has joined #lisp 08:40:49 -!- Mush [~Mush@117.192.150.229] has quit [Client Quit] 08:41:10 good morning everyone 08:42:24 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:42:32 flip215: my gut reaction is that 'collecting should be smart enough to do that efficiently, but it's not handling vectors yet 08:43:16 hi attila_lendvai1 08:43:29 hello Blkt 08:43:34 how are you? 08:43:53 Blkt: Lukacs? 08:43:53 beaumonta [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:44:03 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 08:44:07 Michelangelo :D 08:44:18 fe[nl]ix's friend 08:44:23 gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has joined #lisp 08:44:24 well, currently I've got (with result =(make-array N ...)) (for i below N) (setf (aref result i) ...) - so I know the size beforehand, I wouldn't need (want)( reallocation 08:44:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.61.201] has quit [Changing host] 08:44:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:44:38 Blkt: ah, hi! :) 08:44:42 -!- beaumonta [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:42 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:44:43 :D 08:46:08 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.95.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48:06 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:49:48 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 08:52:22 phao [phao@177.115.32.97] has joined #lisp 08:52:49 In most scheme implementations, using continuations makes programs very slow... Does this happens in common lisp topp? 08:54:07 *anonus* heared that someone here said word "Erlang" 08:54:40 phao: CL does not have continuations, so the answer is probably "no" 08:54:48 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:55:01 cmm, I thought it had, but not like scheme does. 08:55:03 is anyone tried to implement greenthreads (or continuations) in CL (for example based on error processing as like it done in scala) ? 08:55:05 also, define "most" and "very slow" 08:55:09 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:55:54 there's hu.dwim.delico and other delimited continuation libs 08:56:06 phao: CL has non-local control transfer mechanisms (conditions, catch/throw), but those are not really comparable to continuations 08:56:15 Hmm 08:56:16 ok. 08:56:46 I've used catch/throw for tail-call continuations, not to retain the call stack 08:56:56 throw a lambda to continue processing 08:57:00 you can implement continuations (delimited or not) with code-walking or interpreting, though 08:57:53 or with macros. 08:58:07 cmm: undelimited continuations in CL? Really? 08:59:03 would somebody please run babel-tests and report to me what was the results? 08:59:26 I want to verify that the failures that happaned to me are not because of my changes 09:00:20 pkhuong: FSVO "in CL" :) 09:00:55 I mean, you can host a whole CL+continuations in CL, right? 09:01:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kkysvkhcfciqvvgv] has left #lisp 09:01:20 hey, thx for clarifying. 09:01:22 -!- phao [phao@177.115.32.97] has left #lisp 09:02:54 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cmapjgtqbpetcdfz] has joined #lisp 09:03:10 attila_lendvai: is there any documentation about client-visible enhancements of reiterate over iterate? 09:03:19 thanks for the results, the results were same (9 failures for babel) 09:04:48 flip215: no. but it's mostly around two things: 1) easier/clearer to extend, 2) properly deals with the environment/code walking (e.g. extends the env with the newly introduced variables, so non-trivial macros work inside the body) 09:05:26 attila_lendvai: thanks, hoping for new versions with more features ;) 09:06:16 cmm: well, as much as you can host a whole Scheme (: 09:11:47 -!- turtool [~hi@ip72-201-171-74.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:17:31 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:17 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:26:24 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:27:22 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:33:28 -!- teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:33:46 is hu.dwim.delico implemented through transformation code to CPS-form ? 09:34:11 -!- Intensity [6zNDP14Gi1@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:34:20 -!- gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:07 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 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[~daniel@p5B3265F6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:31 -!- SHODAN [~shozan@c-92b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:04 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5B3263BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:11:10 SHODAN [~shozan@c-92b3e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:16:24 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:17:14 -!- kanru` [~user@118-163-10-187.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:19:48 -!- superbeer [~superbeer@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:58 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.218] has joined #lisp 11:26:39 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 11:27:50 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:01 superbeer [~root@ec2-46-51-179-218.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 11:29:14 pkhuong: would you mind changing the text color on your blog to a simple black? this light-blue is hard to read IMO. thanks. 11:29:23 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 11:29:54 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 11:30:38 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 11:30:41 -!- rmathews [~roshan@59.92.8.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:32:21 it is black. 11:32:59 body { color: #657B83; says my firebug ... eg on http://pvk.ca/Blog/Lisp/type_lower_bound.html 11:33:25 sorry, should have been more specific. 11:33:30 oh, that's the old stuff. 11:34:34 got there via "Migration and Synopsis" 11:37:19 you should get your default now. 11:38:25 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F73AC0.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:42:45 yeah, thanks a lot! much better for the eyes. 11:44:44 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 11:45:23 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined 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[5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 12:45:26 is there a common way of removing elements that has no duplicates in the sequence. 12:46:30 i want only the repeated elements to stay in the list, i figured out some ways of doing it but i have this feeling they are nowhere near efficient, i thought maybe there is a common way 12:47:30 *madnificent* would use remove-duplicates and subtract the result of that from the original list. probably not efficient but the CLHS doesn't talk about complexity 12:48:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:48:17 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:48:27 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-206-28.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:49:23 skip that, i need coffee 12:50:00 madnificent: any common way of subtracting sequences? 12:50:03 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-254.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 12:50:49 i was thinking to use set-difference, but the thing is: remove-duplicates doesn't remove enough things. i was just being stupid 12:51:16 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-151-211.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:51:23 kenanb: depending on the input, it could be the fastest to sort the list first then yield results which have occurred before 13:00:28 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 13:00:39 angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 13:00:59 pnq [~nick@172.129.250.99] has joined #lisp 13:04:52 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:07:12 blitz_` [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:17 -!- blitz_` is now known as blitz_ 13:08:31 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 13:09:56 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 13:11:57 ratxue [~chatzilla@host-89-241-166-147.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:46 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:14:22 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 13:15:13 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:33 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 13:15:41 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 13:16:37 -!- osa1__ [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:21:08 msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 13:21:21 leoncamel [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:23:49 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:24 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 13:30:04 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:30:25 ltaoist [~mo@113.94.105.87] has joined #lisp 13:30:41 -!- ltaoist [~mo@113.94.105.87] has left #lisp 13:30:55 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 13:31:16 osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has joined #lisp 13:32:55 ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:51 -!- blitz_ [~blitz@erwin.inf.tu-dresden.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:57 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 13:39:57 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:40:59 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 13:44:50 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:45:43 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:47:26 centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-150-51.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:51 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:49:51 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:09 pkhuong: is that (colors on your blog) based on one of the zenburn themes for emacs, or does it just remind me of that? 13:51:31 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 13:51:44 madnificent: If you do it repeatedly it makes sense to keep a sorted datastructure instead of sorting it afterwards 13:52:23 Neronus: ahm yes, i don't know the intrinsicts of kenanb's problem 13:54:06 pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-236-181.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 13:55:14 -!- 17WAANCK8 [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:55:14 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:05 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 13:56:12 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:56:36 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 13:56:39 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:57:20 mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 13:59:19 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:59:19 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:00:19 cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.95.113] has joined #lisp 14:00:35 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:01:26 ltaoist [~mo@113.94.105.87] has joined #lisp 14:03:43 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:03:43 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:49 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:02 -!- leoncamel [~user@KD175129170046.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:05:05 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:05:32 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.250.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:06:50 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:50 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:07:18 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:23 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:07:35 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:09:27 BountyX [~andrew@csu-137-148-236-181.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 14:10:17 -!- pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-236-181.csuohio.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:04 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 14:16:07 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Quit: h0x00] 14:16:08 That is a pity :P Anyway, if you only have a finite domain, you can also use bitsets. That's fast :) 14:18:37 lol, yeah. i found my assumption that there was an order for all elements in the domain far-fetched. ask him next time around, he's always glad when people help him. 14:24:56 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:25:46 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:51 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:27 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:27:52 rme [~rme@50.43.137.115] has joined #lisp 14:28:41 -!- BountyX [~andrew@csu-137-148-236-181.csuohio.edu] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 14:30:57 silenius [~silenius@i59F73AC0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:20 I have a file that starts swank and hunchentoot normally when I run it as user htoot, but when I run "su - htoot -c same_file" in a bash script, QL gives this error when loading hunchentoot: http://paste.lisp.org/+2Q4I Does it make sense to anyone? 14:32:45 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:33:02 gaidal: rfc2388.asd contains non-ASCII symbol 14:34:51 gaidal: you need to set your environment up in a way that starts sbcl with utf-8 as the encoding 14:35:05 sureaint [~mortimer@65-86-91-130.client.dsl.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:15 gaidal: run "locale" as the normal user to see some of the variables you can set to get that effect 14:35:23 Why would things be loaded differently from the script? Does su - htoot -c still user root environment? 14:35:28 use* 14:35:47 gaidal: it might scrub the environment or set up a new one and reinitialize it 14:35:52 gaidal: the answer is "make sure your environment (locale) is set up correctly" 14:36:05 that has nothing to do with the script. 14:37:04 Hm alright, so since it works from the htoot user, should I assume that it's the root's locale? 14:37:18 yea. 14:37:28 gaidal: yup, it's ran in the context of the root user, not your current user 14:37:39 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:51 both use utf-8 according to locale though 14:38:22 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:12 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@75-170-150-51.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:15 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:52 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:43:30 fast fix is (setf SB-IMPL::*DEFAULT-EXTERNAL-FORMAT* :utf-8) 14:45:51 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.95.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:45:51 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:52 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:47:32 asvil: in .sbclrc? And is there a tutorial or wiki for these things somewhere? 14:48:17 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-254.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 14:48:30 I'm trying to give root a .sbclrc and have it point to the ql installation of the other user, it's going too well. 14:48:36 eh, not going too well. 14:49:03 gaidal: One easy option is to write a script that intializes the locale variables and calls your ultimate program. 14:49:50 Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:25 Xach: if all locale variables are already utf-8, which ones do I still need to set? 14:52:53 gaidal: how did you determine that? 14:53:08 by running locale 14:53:20 gaidal: How did you run locale? 14:53:45 by typing locale as user and then as root 14:54:21 gaidal: How about "su - htoot -c locale"? 14:54:50 Good idea, and it's different indeed 14:56:43 yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.72.208] has joined #lisp 14:57:08 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@gateway/tor-sasl/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 14:58:19 -!- pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:19 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:40 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:57 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:00:35 sysop_fb [~fb@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:35 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:27 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:03:01 OK, adding LANG=en_US.UTF-8 to the start script was not the right way to do it... 15:07:20 So what is this user with all locale variables set to POSIX, when the system was supposed to use UTF-8? 15:07:22 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-123267BA.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout] 15:07:51 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 15:08:14 -!- pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:34 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-3-121.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 15:08:34 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:36 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:20 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:29 dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has joined #lisp 15:09:39 kirkwood [~user@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:00 -!- glompst [mike@149-169-208-8.nat.asu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:11:00 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:11:08 -!- pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:11:39 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:13:37 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:14:51 -!- ratxue [~chatzilla@host-89-241-166-147.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 15:14:51 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:14:59 may be it depends on shell, which is used for this user? 15:15:09 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:15:37 pnq [~nick@AC82D8E3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:57 asvil: never thought about it, bash? 15:16:15 Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:20 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:16:25 If bash is used unless I change it in Arch Linux, then it's bash 15:16:37 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:24 -!- dl` is now known as dl 15:26:30 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:27:08 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82D8E3.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:27:59 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:37 Is there a portable way to get a method name by method object? 15:31:37 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:52 e.g. in define-method-combination. 15:32:35 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:33:54 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #lisp 15:35:18 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:35:48 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:08 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 15:38:24 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:02 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@67.221.72.208] has quit [Quit: computer sleeping] 15:39:32 cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.95.113] has joined #lisp 15:40:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:53 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has joined #lisp 15:41:42 -!- ltaoist [~mo@113.94.105.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:44:05 linkcr [~flaviocru@GS11711.WV.CS.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:44:06 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:44:36 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:44:42 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:44:58 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 15:45:00 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:45:11 Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:45:50 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449739.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:46:18 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46:34 yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.246.177] has joined #lisp 15:47:25 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 15:48:45 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128191122.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:49:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.106] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:49:56 Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 15:50:34 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:51:29 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@137.99.246.177] has quit [Client Quit] 15:52:04 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120111092507]] 15:52:56 maucar [~user@c-76-127-197-39.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:56:15 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:56:15 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:46 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:58:45 mensch [~mensch@c-174-62-210-182.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 if anybody is interested the current status with my :invert changes are that cxml stuff works partially 15:59:50 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:01 (there seems to be some problems with processing dtd stuff but otherwise the test cases which I have run seems to work 16:00:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-6.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:45 jjkola: What are you doing it for? 16:01:27 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:07 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.189.172.153] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:02:43 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:02:45 -!- linkcr [~flaviocru@GS11711.WV.CS.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: linkcr] 16:03:06 Xach: partly for fun and partly to make it work alongside xmlisp while I need case sensitivity 16:03:16 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 16:04:04 besides this way I get a good view on code as I need to check many places :-) 16:04:25 Cool 16:04:29 jjkola: did you run across ironclad yet? 16:04:48 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 16:05:32 -!- maucar [~user@c-76-127-197-39.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:06 haven't yet 16:09:39 benny [~benny@i577A133B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 16:12:29 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:12:30 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:13:37 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 16:15:21 jjkola: if you're looking for fun, try that :) 16:15:26 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:16:34 H4ns: I'll keep that in mind 16:16:34 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:07 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 16:19:04 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19:21 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:19:42 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@u-0-034.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:20:36 sz0 [~user@212.156.129.218] has joined #lisp 16:21:44 -!- gensym [~user@2a00:5a80:ffff:1:52e5:49ff:fe27:95df] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:44 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:37 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 16:23:13 -!- sz0 [~user@212.156.129.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:51 carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has joined #lisp 16:26:43 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384426.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:28:34 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384426.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:47 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384426.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:30:57 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:31:20 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:27 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:56 There are two protobuf libraries in QL  anyone tried them, have a preference? 16:32:46 I haven't tried either, but reb``` works for google and he wrote one, that's the one I'd try first. 16:33:50 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-206-28.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 16:33:50 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:13 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 16:38:40 silver [~kingrat@178.121.157.73] has joined #lisp 16:39:21 Xach: Thanks. 16:40:16 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 16:40:54 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:44:07 I still haven't figured out why su uses the POSIX locale, but I guess changing locale in the start script solves the problem for now, thanks 16:45:42 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:42 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:46:17 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 16:46:54 gaidal: AFAIK su filters the environment, so it probably removes LANG and LC_* 16:47:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:47:56 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:48:25 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:48:51 -!- bsamograd [~user@184.71.240.90] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:49:02 -!- msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 16:50:05 h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 16:50:19 Do anybody use sbcl/cmucl + hunchentoot for web applications in the wild? What host configuration are they need? 16:50:22 msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 16:50:32 bsamograd [~user@184.71.240.90] has joined #lisp 16:51:27 asvil: I use sbcl and hunchentoot on a server I lease. I lease a real server because I like the control & capability. I haven't tried to use anything virtual or "small" for it. 16:51:34 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@195.205.210.160] has quit [Quit: time2gohome] 16:52:49 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.186] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:11 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-254.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:54:54 :) I like real server, too. But I have a limit, and try to find compromise. 16:54:59 We use ccl + hunchentoot for a real thing. It's on a 3.5 GB Xen instance running Linux on a dedicated host (2.2 GHz Core2 Duo). That's been more than sufficient. 16:55:04 agspathis [~user@150.140.232.177] has joined #lisp 16:55:12 rme thanks 17:00:08 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:00:46 rme: do you ever run into issues with long-running lisp processes? 17:02:46 dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has joined #lisp 17:02:56 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:03:03 could someone remind me what the name of the elisp repl mode was. i know it's emacs lisp related but common lisp users actually use that repl 17:03:10 sykopomp: like what? 17:03:36 madnificent: ielm? 17:03:45 ielm 17:03:48 well, that's what I'm asking about. Things like issues with long-running threads, memory usage problems, random crashes. 17:03:51 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:03:54 thanks! 17:03:56 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-210.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:03:58 woo awesome I had no idea there were protobuf libs in ql 17:03:59 interactive emacs lisp mode 17:04:05 sykopomp: it hasn't been a big problem. the current server's been up since nov. 7. 17:04:07 Xach: I love that github feed! 17:04:08 -!- h0x00 [~h0x00@91.207.42.52] has quit [Quit: h0x00] 17:04:11 that's it's repl 17:04:52 sykopomp: well we are running some long-lived processes. They are being supervised of course and automatically restarted. Some have been running for month. No threads involved. 17:05:31 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 17:05:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 17:07:54 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:08:00 RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:08:03 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:58 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 17:09:14 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-254.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:06 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 17:12:49 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:12:53 pnq [~nick@ACA22FD7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:57 how do I portably load swank system, save an image (executable), and then call swank:create-server once the resulting program is started? 17:13:14 it works in SBCL but not in CCL 17:13:52 i don't know ccl 17:13:52 and sbcl is easy 17:13:53 this is the error I'm getting in CCL (moment) 17:14:15 you give it the :toplevel option for the function to be run laod all the packages before and then save-lisp-and-die :executable optionally 17:14:29 mlkith: you should just need to load in the sawnk system and save your image 17:14:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127092 17:15:01 that's what I'm doing 17:15:07 I'm assuming you'll want to create a remote connnection to the app with slime? 17:15:24 yes that's what I want to do 17:16:16 What happens? 17:18:16 see the link I pasted the code and error 17:18:42 doing the same in sbcl works fine 17:18:48 So one of things we did when building the apps is initialize swank 17:19:18 One second 17:20:41 wbooze: yeah, i got it from ielm :) sometimes my mind brain denies access to the most common names. even though i somewhat know the abbreviation. 17:21:39 madnificient: i'm not nearly as old as you, ask me yet, i forget most of the names all the time too.... 17:21:47 -!- RomyRomy [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 17:21:51 *wbooze* is dyslexic 17:23:14 so same here..... 17:23:44 it's like i have them 90% of the time in my head and working with them, but then ..... 17:24:32 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 17:25:18 by the way i forgot how old madnificient is..... 17:25:31 madnificent: how old are you ? 17:25:44 i'm like 35 17:26:02 The more common names of what? Functions, or something else? 17:27:31 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 17:27:43 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:49 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:30:04 mlkith: one more test and I have it working on os x 17:30:12 with CCL? 17:30:14 Yep 17:30:30 did you make any changes to the code 17:30:42 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:31:35 Yes but not sure if they make any difference 17:32:05 add :impurify t and :purify t 17:32:18 Error: # is closed is what I got at first 17:32:23 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-384426.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:32:37 Morning folks. 17:32:56 gigamonkey: morning 17:33:22 morning 17:33:28 'Afternoon. 17:33:40 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:04 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:40 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:37:52 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F73AC0.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:59 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:40 mlkith: hope that works but I have to go now 17:39:43 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-400148.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:39:53 I am getting exactly the same error unfortunately with those options 17:40:16 thanks for trying. I'll try asking in #ccl 17:40:40 actually the error was different 17:41:10 -!- SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-rrzbycwgmokhoupk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:14 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:43:50 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:44:58 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-194-147.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:50:16 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-202-174-201.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 17:50:18 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 17:50:40 -!- carbocalm [~user@38.99.165.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:42 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:51:05 sellout/sbryant: Please give feedback on the protobuf libraries if you try them. 17:52:27 reb```: Will do. Is the plan to eventually get protoc-gen-lisp into the main protobuf source, or no? 17:53:44 I don't think there's any pressing need to do that, since a "plugin" can do all that's needed. 17:54:19 mlkith: You still around? 17:54:59 reb yes 17:55:02 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-254.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:55:11 SeanTAllen [u4855@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-qnpxxtzuwlclwxuc] has joined #lisp 17:55:18 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:22 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.27] has joined #lisp 17:55:25 I added annotation. error was the same, I just didn't paste the warning last time 17:55:39 http://paste.lisp.org/display/127092#1 17:55:57 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 17:56:27 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 17:56:36 I have some Swank server starting code that may be helpful. I have not tested it on CCL, so it won't help your immediate problem, but may be useful later. 17:57:02 sure 17:57:17 -!- ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:57:27 I'd appreciate if you can paste it 17:57:42 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:57:55 did you maybe have to store the environment too ? 17:58:03 at the time you create the image ? 17:58:20 I have to run, so I might not be able to paste until roughly an hour from now. 17:58:25 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-254.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:58:30 reb ok 17:58:48 wbooze how do I do that? 17:58:53 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.19.218] has joined #lisp 17:59:03 to capture env ? 17:59:15 yes 17:59:17 erm, i think save-lisp-and-die at least has an option for it 17:59:28 and i don't know if ccl provides something similar 17:59:41 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:44 maybe the defaults are different if it is providing it 18:00:01 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-FDAAE900.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: gz] 18:00:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.74.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:51 -!- ned [~root@li129-64.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:04:36 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:05:23 kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 18:05:31 mlkith: I pasted some code that waits for the Swank server to exit -- SBCL only. 18:08:00 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:10:04 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:11:07 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:16 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:13:25 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.145.252] has joined #lisp 18:14:38 vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:56 reb thanks 18:15:13 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:15:35 It could be your problem it caused by premature program exit ... that is, the presence of the background Swank thread may not be enough to keep your ccl running. 18:15:40 s/it/is 18:15:58 Anyway, have to run now .... 18:16:55 -!- ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:17:08 ned [~root@li129-64.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:34 -!- ned is now known as Guest52510 18:17:48 I should have pasted better test code, but no that wasn't it. my actually code runs a message loop right after calling swank:create-server 18:19:55 mlkith: you may use cl-launch to save images portably, IIRC. 18:20:47 hefner [~tehf@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:24:36 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:15 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:30:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.14] has joined #lisp 18:35:55 -!- msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 18:36:15 lnostdal [~lnostdal@149.62.178.226] has joined #lisp 18:38:06 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 18:38:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 18:40:16 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:41:04 DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 18:41:21 msponge [~msponge@30-7-244.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:41:38 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:42:11 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 18:45:35 -!- gz [Clozure@clozure-2E21CFB1.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gz] 18:46:26 Anyone have a web session API they like from any language or platform? 18:50:09 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-bhjuuekyuhnajavh] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:51:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:53:17 gigamonkey: I think nearly all of them just emulate a key-value store 18:53:20 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.48.251] has joined #lisp 18:53:59 And of course Teh Best key-value store is the good old a-list! 18:54:27 I don't know if any best practice exists. Don't use IP addresses to validate your sessions anymore, though - it plays havoc with mobile devices 18:54:43 I was trying to write some benchmarking code a few weeks ago for a-lists vs. hash tables, but I couldn't get things to happen slowly enough to be visible rather than just lost in the noise. 18:55:19 jcowan: probably matters more for large datasets 18:55:32 I assume so, but proofs are better than assumptions. 18:56:02 jcowan: the breakover point is 35 for clisp, and about 5 for the other implementations. 18:56:05 If the data structure is *too* big, the algorithmic difference gets lost in the noise of paging. 18:56:20 pjb: Thanks! I don't suppose you have similar data for Schemes? 18:56:28 No, I don't. 18:56:49 Okay, I'll guess then that it's 35 for interpreters, 5 for compilers. 18:56:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 18:57:18 That assumes that the typical CL hashtable implementation isn't too different from SRFI 69's reference implementation. 18:57:56 pjb: Where do those numbers come from? 18:58:07 Some benchmark I made a few years ago. 18:58:08 The last session mechanism I wrote used an encrypted cookie that had the session id and a timestamp 18:58:25 jcowan: i watched your r7rs presentation recently, cool stuff 18:58:36 kenanb: Thanks 18:59:44 jcowan: how are things going in wg1 19:00:19 The fifth draft is published, and if the Steering Committee will get off its duff, the public comment phase can start. 19:01:11 Then hopefully we can restart WG2 (new members solicited) 19:01:16 Let us speak no more of it. 19:02:32 rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 19:02:40 *jcowan* considers his response and eats another pretzel. 19:03:01 reb```: from the protobuf README: this step only works for Linux  it works on OS X as well. 19:03:56 jcowan: well, good luck with that, i read the 5th draft already, i am not the man to comment on such things but the modifications seemed pretty much logical 19:04:20 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 19:05:05 davlap [~davlap@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:57 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:48 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 19:11:06 is there any channel mods here? 19:11:39 Guthur: yes. 19:11:51 Xach: you? 19:12:10 Me, Zhivago, Xof, others 19:12:11 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:12:22 Would it be acceptable if my bot joined the channel sometime? 19:12:28 There's a command to get the list from services, but I don't know what it is. 19:12:36 Guthur: no. 19:12:53 ok 19:12:59 Guthur: What does your bot do? 19:13:36 well not much more than specbot did at the moment, but I'm adding more features. 19:13:55 not ready at the moment, I want to try and add an eval 19:14:00 That would be most unwelcome. 19:14:29 fair enough, that's why I asked 19:15:35 ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has joined #lisp 19:17:14 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22FD7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:19:16 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 19:19:24 pnq [~nick@ACA22FD7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:31 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:22:43 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:55 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:56 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-254.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:28:05 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:28:10 -!- maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:28:15 maxm--- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 19:30:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:59 hydo [~hydo@69.170.161.42] has joined #lisp 19:32:15 sellout: Thanks ... I'll update the documentation. 19:33:12 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.48.251] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:33:17 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:24 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.117.181] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 19:33:40 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:33:42 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.117.181] has joined #lisp 19:34:08 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@58.187.95.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:34:52 -!- dtw [dtw@pdpc/supporter/active/dtw] has quit [Quit: +++ATH0] 19:35:39 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:37:57 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:38:15 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:16 ddp [~ddp@anon-136-236.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:32 -!- ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:39:36 -!- davlap [~davlap@107-0-204-137-ip-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:40:04 ChibaPet [~ChibaPet@fsf/member/chibapet] has joined #lisp 19:42:56 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:44:03 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:34 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:45:08 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:23 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:46:26 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:46:51 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:47:23 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:55 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:23 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 19:51:42 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:52:24 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@85-132-136-40-static.vivo.cz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:53:22 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:17 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 19:57:17 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:57:17 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:00:10 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 20:00:34 diginet [~user@ppp-69-153-136-120.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:07 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:16 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:03:24 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:04:19 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:06:40 so, here's a question for any fellow lispers around: what do you guys think of so-called "little languages?" 20:07:05 What's a little language? 20:07:09 MiniMe? 20:07:12 like, awk 20:07:26 I like them, but I am a shell weenie before I am a Lisp weenie. 20:07:32 diginet: I write all my script in clisp. 20:07:56 they're like domain-specific languages, but I think "little languages" are more often used for more ad hoc stuff 20:08:44 I dunno, I guess...my thoughts are, well, like in the Unix shell, it's kind of ridiculous how there are seperate tools for copying directories and files 20:09:09 Why so? In any case, cp copies files and cp -r copies directories. 20:09:14 and how those individual commands are /still/ being maintained (seems like overkill?) 20:09:25 jcowan: I know, it's just redundant 20:09:27 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@149.62.178.226] has joined #lisp 20:09:39 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@149.62.178.226] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:10:05 If you want real annoyance, it's remembering when to use -t, when to use -d, and when to use -F for "specify input field separator". That's one of the reason GNU added long options, so they could be more standard. 20:10:12 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@149.62.178.226] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:10:42 but like, my biggest problems are when they aren't warranted because the problem domain is way too specific, or if they're just generally ugly, tedious, or "accidental" 20:10:55 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@149.62.178.226] has joined #lisp 20:10:57 diginet: I write all my script in clisp. 20:11:03 pjb: nice! 20:11:05 Notice also that anyways, they're turing complete. 20:11:16 yeah that's the point 20:11:19 Even sed is (almost) turing complete, you only need to add a bash loop around it. 20:11:33 sed is a perfect example of one I really don't like 20:11:40 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@149.62.178.226] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:11:57 diginet: if you use emacs, you can forget all those little unix tools. 20:12:10 pjb: of course! stay within the comfort zone :) 20:12:21 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@149.62.178.226] has joined #lisp 20:12:44
diginet: will this satisfy you?: alias cp='cp -r' 20:13:12
diginet: of course, you can always write your "shell scripts" in Lisp and forget about the annoyances of shell programming! 20:13:19 *dl* is fond of that approach! 20:13:21 well one grip I have is with "grep" it could just be called, oh, I dunno...SEARCH 20:13:23 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:13:26 *diginet* is too! 20:13:41 yes, I know the origin, but it's silly, arcane, and needlessly cryptic 20:13:43 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:13:51 diginet: If you'd like to talk about Lisp, feel free. 20:13:53 There was a tool named rep before it. For Regular Expression Processor. 20:14:04 Xach: I was getting to that 20:14:11 I'm working my way there 20:14:16 Too slow by half. 20:14:19 grep was an improvement, named Generalized Regular Expression Processor. 20:15:08 Besides, search is longer to type than grep, and you can always put alias search=grep in your ~/.ashrc. 20:15:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:15:42
diginet: I'm a sysadmin and have been doing lots of my "systems work" in CL and find its more maintainable (not to mention more robust, and faster than traditional shell scripts). 20:15:42 +b 20:16:10 "Why not name things after the first thing I could think of" is not a stance that will make you very happy if you use Common Lisp. 20:16:28 well anyway, the point is...I feel like there's a fine/dangerous line between a tower of babel, and trying to use one ill-equipped language for all purposes (i.e. jack of all trades, master of none) 20:16:45 *dl* always forgets to check return values and such in his shell scripts, but finds it easier to remember to do so in CL 20:16:51 I like Lisp because it kind of gives you a middle-ground 20:16:53 Xach: Most Common Lisp functions are named rather randomly. 20:16:57 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.231.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:01 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.214.37] has joined #lisp 20:17:01 jcowan: Hardly random. 20:17:15 *ehu* has to agree with Xach there 20:17:21 can I bind multiple values in a loop? something like (loop for (x y) in (function-which-returns-2-values-in-each-call) ...) ? 20:17:56 well, take for instance cons, cdr, car...I know they come from the IBM 704 instruction set, and yes they could be replaced with "first" "last" etc, but, cdr and car have become words in their own right, with their own meanings 20:17:59 osa1: Not in LOOP, no. It only destructures. You have to use setf values or m-v-bind. 20:18:00 (loop for (x y) = (multiple-value-list (truncate a b)) ...) 20:18:08 Or that. 20:18:08 Not efficient, but possible. 20:18:24 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:18:28 <|3b|> might be efficient, at least one LOOP implementation special cases that 20:18:30 k, thanks 20:18:40 <|3b|> (not that much of anyone uses that LOOP) 20:19:11 I've been reading about LispKit Lisp as of late, it's really interesting 20:19:18 in fact, I think it's my new favourite Lisp 20:19:21
|3b|: which implementation is that? (just cureous) 20:19:24 (sorry CL :( ) 20:19:33 <|3b|> dl: sacla's loop 20:20:00
|3b|: thanks :) 20:20:07 What's the justification for NRECONC rather than NREVAPPEND? Just history. 20:20:46 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 20:20:50 That wasn't the choice at the time. 20:20:54 "NRECONC" holds in one word, not "NREVAPPEND". 20:21:08 |3b|: interesting. Might want to do that in ABCL as well. 20:21:16 was running into a case exactly like that the other day. 20:21:44
|3b|: that /is/ nifty! Thanks for the pointer! 20:22:03 pjb: I don't understand what you said. 20:22:40 jcowan: on the 7090 strings were stored as packed 6-bit characters, 6 in a 36-bit word. 20:22:56 So it was interesting to have small names, so that you'd use only a single word. 20:22:58 Ah, tahnks. 20:23:28 Since those words were tied in a CONS list, using two words of characters actually needed 4 words... 20:23:39 However, it confirms my point: the names are historical and unsystematic ("random"). 20:23:42 <|3b|> ehu: probably easier than convincing everyone to implement the same extra syntax :) 20:24:20 jcowan: I don't think random is equivalent to historical and unsystematic. 20:25:17 Similarly, twenty years later, disk space being still at a premium, file systems often allocated only one word for file names. Hence files named 'ls' and 'creat.c'. 20:25:44 Xach: See definition 4 of RANDOM in the Jargon File 20:26:01 dmr has conceded that "creat" was a mistake 20:26:48 Sure, but it shows what he had in his mind then. 20:26:59 jcowan: I don't think that's applicable either. 20:27:53 I think it was the 6-character restriction on linker external names (viz. "_creat") 20:28:14 which undoubtedly inherits from Fortran, which inherits from sixbit representations. 20:28:32 Xach: Why not? 20:28:33 Let's be happy they weren't programming on 32-bit systems with iso-8859-1 encoded characters... 20:28:35 _cre 20:28:56 lol 20:29:15 On the PDP-8 we had 12-bit words and 6-bit characters, so FOOBAR.TX occupied four words 20:31:00 jcowan: The choices were made in context, and preserved in context; that different choices would be made in a reset context does not make the past choices incoherent or inelegant. 20:31:35 It's the total set that's incoherent. Each name can be justified in its original context: the overall justification was backward compatibility. 20:31:54 rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 20:32:00 jcowan: you can always alias the names. defpackage etc. 20:32:00 THe mark of a coherent set of names is that if you know some, you can deduce more reliably. Such is not the case here. 20:32:23 pjb: Sure. I don't object to having random names, I just contend that they are, taken as a whole, random. 20:32:24 ( apart for special variables :-( ) 20:33:07 -!- dnolen [aa95640a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.170.149.100.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:33:20 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:43 jdz [~jdz@host117-105-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:34:27 diginet: Owl Lisp is cool too (pure functional Lisp) 20:35:11 *ehu* wonders if the conversation is converging or digressing from Common Lisp 20:35:20 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD7FA1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:41 It's wandering around in Lispspace. 20:37:26 -!- sixpoint8 [~jaykub@ip68-12-204-131.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:27 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-60.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has joined #lisp 20:37:32 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@gray-60.dynamic2.rpi.edu] has quit [Changing host] 20:37:32 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 20:37:37 sixpoint8 [~jaykub@2002:440c:cc83:1234:3daa:f73f:4d53:3ebb] has joined #lisp 20:38:04 -!- jdz [~jdz@host117-105-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:19 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.250.218] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:51:24 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:52:44 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 20:54:02 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 20:55:00 Is there a library for html output with the same syntax as parenscript's ps-html? 20:55:56 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:56:04 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc1-midd16-2-0-cust160.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:46 reb```: when I get to playing with them I will let you know. I want to play with that and cl-dispatch 20:58:15 sbryant: Well, let me know if cl-dispatch does you any good (or bad). 20:58:17 Ragnaroek [~chatzilla@p5081E51C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:21 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:58:33 great ... thanks in advance 20:58:35 Blkt [~user@82.84.176.4] has joined #lisp 20:59:49 np 21:00:10 I just wanted to play with GCD and then noticed that in planet lisp github feed 21:00:17 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:00:18 So that'll be on the menu soon-ish 21:00:27 sellout: that repo is yours? 21:01:28 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:02:21 sbryant: Well, sellout/cl-dispatch is, but someone has forked it (you?) 21:04:30 I haven't yet 21:04:45 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:09:48 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:11:12 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 21:12:04 icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.101.84] has joined #lisp 21:12:05 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:13:28 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:38 drdo: HTML generators are easy to make, generally 21:18:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-171-8.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:20:40 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.145.252] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 21:22:16 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:47 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@99.Red-88-11-28.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:25:39 jcowan: i remember lots of mentions of backwards compability with r5rs in your r7rs presentation, too. afaik backwards compability is a pain in the arse but it is something you cannot ignore. 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#lisp 22:36:28 -!- kenanb [5e36ede3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.54.237.227] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 22:47:40 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 22:52:19 -!- RazWelles_ [~RazWelles@c-76-108-49-181.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:04 kwertii [~kwertii@unaffiliated/kwertii] has joined #lisp 22:55:11 -!- silver [~kingrat@178.121.157.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:01:53 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:57 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@c-67-180-197-126.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:02:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.117.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:03:54 tcr1 [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 23:04:39 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-136-236.relakks.com] has quit [Quit: ddp] 23:06:20 ddp [~ddp@anon-136-236.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:07 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:08:22 quek [~quek@117.102.187.225.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 23:08:23 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 23:11:15 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:11:52 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 23:12:00 *Xach* feels the S3 excitement 23:12:01 DataLinkDroid [~David@120.155.209.226] has joined #lisp 23:12:51 *sykopomp* liked zs3 a lot and wrote very important code using it. 23:13:45 sykopomp: I had to left earlier today; was there anything more about long-living processes? 23:14:03 tcr1: no, it was simply curiosity 23:14:11 -!- prip [~foo@host60-196-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:14:25 I think I just ask that occasionally, since I'd read in the past about (possibly unfounded) complaints about long-torm stability and SBCL. 23:15:26 <|3b|> from what i've seen, the GC can be a problem for server loops if you aren't careful 23:16:04 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc1-midd16-2-0-cust160.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:17:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:20:37 are there docs on how to set up a quicklisp local project anywhere? 23:21:18 hrm, is there a way to make double-float conversions cons less? latest sbcl 23:21:26 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:22:24 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 23:22:26 <|3b|> oGMo: don't return them from functions? (store them into typed arrays istead for example) 23:22:50 Ralith: the FAQ has some info. 23:23:01 Ralith: What do you mean by "quicklisp local project"? 23:23:04 oGMo: and if you are using small function that calculate something, make sure they get inlined 23:23:14 in this case something like nested LOOP and (* i cell-width) (* j cell-height) conses a LOT 23:23:51 <|3b|> oGMo: declaring types might help... a real function would be easier to advise about though 23:23:58 Xach: I want to have and use a local copy of a project which is available in quicklisp, for development purposes. 23:24:11 (i.e. not a quicklisp-managed copy) 23:24:56 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:20 Ralith: there isn't really a good shortcut for it at the moment, you have to track down its upstream, but when you do, you can check it out into ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ and it will be loaded in preference to the quicklisp one. 23:25:40 that's exactly what I wanted, actually; thanks. 23:25:40 Ralith: Just put it in your asdf path. 23:25:59 *Xach* now prefers ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ to the stock asdf path 23:26:04 Xach: do you have a mental model of when stuff should be in local-projects vs just elsewhere ... 23:26:11 |3b|: http://paste.lisp.org/display/127178 23:26:18 gigamonkey: I put everything there. 23:26:33 I used to use ~/src/lisp/ but I switched to ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ 23:26:48 |3b|: writing this as closely to a C version as possible for benchmarking 23:26:49 *gigamonkey* would be leary of doing that given that periodically he does a rm -rf ~/quicklisp/ 23:27:05 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:27:07 prip [~foo@host225-123-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:27:12 gigamonkey: you could make ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ a symlink in that case 23:27:37 Is local-projects flat or a tree? 23:27:56 <|3b|> oGMo: i'd guess passing them to a function is the problem 23:28:09 I.e. if I have local-projects/foo/bar/ and local-projects/foo/baz/ where bar and baz are the dirs containing .asd files will it find them? 23:28:46 gigamonkey: it's a tree, but the automatic scanning only works at level 1. if you have a deep hierarchy you have to manually tell it when you add stuff to it. 23:28:47 |3b|: if you change the (* i ...) to just the ..., it doesn't 23:29:43 -!- mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (Session timeout)] 23:30:24 MaxLanar [~user1@vai69-2-82-229-207-48.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:49 but, foreign function call, not much i can do about not passing them i guess 23:31:01 X-Scale [email@89.180.129.180] has joined #lisp 23:31:08 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:31:11 <|3b|> is that call actually the defcfun and not a lisp wrapper? 23:31:15 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest91938 23:31:42 |3b|: it's the lisp wrapper, and i've got it profiled as well 23:33:00 <|3b|> does it hurt anything to just pass single floats there? 23:33:46 the function requires doubles so they have to be converted at some point 23:34:02 <|3b|> makes sense that passing constants wouldn't cons, since they are constant don't need to make a new one every time 23:34:41 -!- jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:34:46 it'd be nice to reuse them, but i'm not sure how to express it to the compiler 23:35:41 <|3b|> well, if the bindings can convert it when it is doing the foreign call, it might not need to allocate a boxed lisp value, so no consing 23:35:56 *MikeSeth* is playing with clx 23:36:29 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-209.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:23 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-179-245.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:44 unfortunately the default is to coerce it to double before it gets to the actual call, which has the identical problem, really 23:39:29 <|3b|> maybe, depends on what is inlined/compiler macro/etc 23:39:34 -!- pers [~user@076-076-146-017.pdx.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:38 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-3-235.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:43:05 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-179-209.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:44:09 taipres [~taipres@2001:5c0:1400:a::1fd] has joined #lisp 23:44:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:44:47 -!- vsync [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:44:59 -!- icrazyhack [~horieyui@183.60.101.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:50:10 yep, confirmed again, with-pane-scrolled-to-bottom is blody.... 23:50:18 -!- Guest52510 is now known as ned 23:50:53 petisnnake [~petisnnak@89.137.126.121] has joined #lisp 23:51:17 hrm yeah the best way is definitely to get everything down to the foreign function call inlined, and with CFFI it ought to be anyway 23:52:31 lisp is best language ever 23:52:33 just sayin 23:52:35 ;p 23:53:22 taipres: sadly, that's not saying much. ;-) 23:53:31 heh 23:54:44 -!- vairav [~vairav@c-98-207-170-37.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:00 Hi, can someone please help me with this? http://pastebin.com/xi1unqiq 23:55:05 super simple little function 23:55:11 throws error I can't explain 23:56:04 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.155.209.226] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:56:47 <|3b|> is EQUALS defined somewhere? 23:57:52 <|3b|> and i think the parens are broken on the second one... your formatting doesn't help with readability 23:59:21 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-117.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:36 hmmm I had to retype it since code is on a different machine and pasted from windows. EQUAL* and parens are ok in code 23:59:44 |3b|: ideas?