00:00:03 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.134] has joined #lisp 00:03:16 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:41 hasnointentions [~hasnointe@ip72-195-135-173.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:40 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@2001:14b8:1fe::1] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 00:05:43 -!- SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:05:53 Adrinael [~adrinael@2001:14b8:1fe::1] has joined #lisp 00:16:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:19:25 . 00:19:32 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:19:48 any lispbuilder-sdl users? I am trying to open a window and get .mp3 to play. creating the window works fine, but I am getting no sound. 00:19:48 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126955 00:21:19 I copy/pasted that code from here: lispbuilder's homepage 00:21:39 oGMo: were you volunteering? 00:22:07 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:23:43 Guthur: i certainly would 00:23:59 but? 00:24:37 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:38 Guthur: but tpapp seems to have no contact information 00:25:30 i can easily fork it, but that's not really helpful 00:25:54 shame 00:26:14 I suppose that is always a risk with lone wolf libs 00:26:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:26:49 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 00:28:37 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-234-163.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:28:38 oGMo: pretty sure he's still active on github 00:29:13 pkhuong: he is, but cl-cairo2 hasn't been touched in nearly a year, with 5 pending pulls already ;/ 00:29:32 and no provided email address, so can't message through github, sadly 00:30:08 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:28 time to fork? 00:32:21 (given it's also GPL possibly time to rewrite, though it seems more a slapped-on default than anything) 00:32:21 -!- mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 00:32:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 00:34:35 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:34:39 suggest on API choice: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126956 00:34:50 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 00:35:06 I've initially went with the first 00:35:45 but I'm wondering is it really worth adding the complexity to the fn interface just to hide change-class 00:36:22 Guthur: What are the other message-types, and what is the default? 00:36:33 the last option is also a possibility but I'm not fond of it because it requires discrete funs for each msg type 00:36:47 why not (recvmsg skt 'string-message) 00:36:48 sellout: plain message and octet-message 00:37:00 also why not (receive-message s 'string) 00:37:23 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-234-163.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:37:51 xristos: you would have to always pass the type then, there is other kwargs so optional arg was out 00:38:11 I had it defaulting to message ie (message-type 'message) 00:38:14 ok 00:39:34 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:39:39 sendmsg was easy, I just dispatch on data class, 00:39:55 Guthur: I would use the last when I had a lot of them to do. It would probably do the first in the defun for the last. The second is an implemention detail that I would not use. 00:40:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:40:13 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.0.31] has joined #lisp 00:42:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:42:55 drewc: seems reasonable 00:43:18 I didn't like the second much... 00:44:31 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 00:44:50 SlayersZ [~SlayersZ@70.65.233.0] has joined #lisp 00:45:40 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:46:35 peearr [~aaron@159.153.4.51] has joined #lisp 00:46:43 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-15-163.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:47:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-86-199.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:48:25 -!- peearr [~aaron@159.153.4.51] has 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pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-241-85-191.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:04 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:07:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:08:13 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 06:08:53 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:09:41 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.110.154] has joined #lisp 06:12:01 morning lispers 06:13:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.255.141] has joined #lisp 06:13:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.255.141] has quit [Changing host] 06:13:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:13:52 good morning 06:14:06 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:14:38 -!- fuzzy_tomato [~lol@70.234.105.120] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:18:31 -!- z` [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:33 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:18:51 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 06:18:56 Greetings lispers 06:18:58 z` [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has joined #lisp 06:19:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.4.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:19:23 Ran into something with FORMAT this evening that surprised me -> http://paste.lisp.org/display/126963 06:20:12 ikki [~ikki@189.195.4.171] has joined #lisp 06:21:20 I would have expected some sort of error, not ultimately using ~A for the output. 06:25:55 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:27:23 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:27:33 robde_ [~robde@p579031F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:46 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:28:02 drewc [~user@207.6.31.109] has joined #lisp 06:30:08 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-114-40.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:33:35 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.225] has joined #lisp 06:34:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:38:08 ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 06:40:05 these days i am tortured by php and java red5. oh, what a world 06:40:39 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:43:08 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@120.155.134.249] has quit [Quit: Bye] 06:43:36 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:45:58 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has joined #lisp 06:46:54 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:56:49 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 06:58:02 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:01:40 Cryotank2011 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tensorpudding 07:27:56 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 07:34:06 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@67.159.39.45] has quit [Quit: quit] 07:34:35 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:35:01 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:37:05 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:37:37 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 07:37:39 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:37:57 good morning 07:41:51 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 07:42:39 teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has joined #lisp 07:44:58 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 07:45:06 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 07:47:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:49:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:52:01 -!- davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 07:54:10 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:54:15 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 07:54:25 is there quick way to convert a vector to a list? 07:54:41 besides a collecting loop 07:54:50 coerce? 07:55:31 indeed 07:55:33 cheers Bike 07:55:38 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 07:56:00 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 07:56:20 snearch [~snearch@g231235179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:58:06 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:32 pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:58:33 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has left #lisp 08:05:23 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:10:33 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:23:02 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:39 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:24:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:25:43 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:23 ddp_ [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 08:28:23 GoMittGo [GoMittGo@ip72-207-16-214.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:35 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-134-47.relakks.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:28:38 -!- ddp_ is now known as ddp 08:29:41 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:30:16 -!- hasnointentions [~hasnointe@ip72-195-135-173.ri.ri.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:30:48 good morning everyone 08:33:50 mvilleneuve, good morning 08:34:01 mvilleneuve, can I pm you? 08:35:26 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:35:42 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:35:48 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 08:38:04 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:38:12 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:38:25 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 08:39:04 -!- robde_ [~robde@p579031F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 08:39:05 -!- GoMittGo [GoMittGo@ip72-207-16-214.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [K-Lined] 08:40:03 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 08:42:10 ehu [~erik@62.140.137.152] has joined #lisp 08:43:12 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:44:14 nostoi [~nostoi@147.Red-79-152-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-127.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: wave resumes in nine hours.] 08:44:54 deepfire: sure 08:45:17 -!- kilon is now known as kilon_away 08:47:46 -!- dmiles_afk is now known as dmiles 08:47:46 -!- dmiles is now known as dmiles_afk 08:48:03 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 08:48:08 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:48:37 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:48:53 MoALTz [~no@178.181.211.125.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 08:49:32 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:53:17 vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:53:45 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:54:19 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@147.Red-79-152-63.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:54:29 marsell [~marsell@120.18.207.154] has joined #lisp 08:55:39 -!- drewc [~user@207.6.31.109] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:41 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:44 drewc [~user@207.6.31.109] has joined #lisp 08:56:03 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:56:56 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:58:35 marsell_ [~marsell@120.18.183.222] has joined #lisp 08:58:43 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.207.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:58:44 -!- marsell_ is now known as marsell 09:01:09 -!- drewc [~user@207.6.31.109] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:33 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-22-6-159.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 09:09:46 -!- gensym``` [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:14:55 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rwbjxkyupbxyazzz] has joined #lisp 09:16:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 09:18:38 robde [~robde@wlan-94-87.uni-koblenz.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:57 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.4.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:19:28 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-69-203.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:21:53 Matt_S_G [efqfmme@94.126.17.227] has joined #lisp 09:24:20 kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.38] has joined #lisp 09:24:21 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.38] has quit [Changing host] 09:24:21 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:26:06 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:03 -!- wondertageous [~wondertag@123.232.43.67] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 09:29:54 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.178.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:32:49 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:35:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.240.209] has joined #lisp 09:43:16 -!- el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8CD37.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:45:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:50:29 -!- snearch [~snearch@g231235179.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:52:01 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:52:36 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:53:52 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:59 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-67-202-0-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:49 mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 09:59:51 hello, have you ever tried to handle download resume requests with unchentoot or similar ? I'm tring to do it with my software without success http://pastebin.com/s1vkGaKG. Please if anybody knows why I'm not able to resume a download help me 10:02:43 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-50-16-94-68.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 10:03:40 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:58 hello. how would you write a data structure with multiple keys, to avoid repeating the value? would you create a macro or is there something built in that I could use? (defvar *map* (("key" . "value") (5 . "value") .. ) 10:07:04 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 10:07:31 mlkith: what do you mean by "repeating the value" precisely? in a literal representation of the data structure? in memory? 10:07:56 H4n I had to type it twice 10:08:51 mlkith: you could use something in the lines of '(:foo #1=(1 2 3) :bar #1#) 10:10:00 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:11 levi` [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:12 -!- Matt_S_G [efqfmme@94.126.17.227] has quit [] 10:11:11 ok interesting. is there any max limit for the number after # 10:11:37 denisu [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 10:12:39 mlkith: no. 10:14:41 wondertageous [~wondertag@123.233.215.219] has joined #lisp 10:16:08 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:16:10 -!- denisu is now known as gemelen 10:16:24 ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 10:17:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:17:46 but honestly I am not sure I like that too much. was hoping there was something like (("foo" "bar") . (1 2 3))). I'll write a macro myself. 10:27:18 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-50-16-94-68.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:30:37 -!- gemelen [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 10:30:48 denisu [~gemelen@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:59 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-184-72-71-178.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 10:31:40 -!- denisu is now known as gemelen 10:31:55 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2528.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:34:41 I thought I'd do something like this: (hash '((("key1" "key2") . "value") . but then I couldn't have a list as a key. any suggestions on a different syntax? 10:35:16 Why can't you have a list as a key? 10:36:17 I couldn't tell a difference between a list as a key and as a list of keys 10:37:24 Just require lists of keys to be in lists. 10:37:46 er, keys that are lists to be in lists of keys. 10:38:15 too many parens :) 10:38:43 but it's an exceptional case so it's not that bad 10:40:23 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-238.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 10:41:15 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:41:42 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:43:07 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 10:43:45 -!- rmathews [~roshan@122.174.11.193] has quit [Quit: rmathews] 10:45:34 how would you handle being able to optionally pass hash-table key arguments? 10:46:42 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.183.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:47:34 with a syntax like this: (hash (("key1" "key2") . "value") .. ) 10:48:16 -!- robde [~robde@wlan-94-87.uni-koblenz.de] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 10:50:25 (defmacro hash ((&rest keys) &rest key-value-pairs) 10:50:46 -!- teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:51:11 mlkith: why don't you use plist syntax for the key-value-pairs? 10:52:12 -!- MoALTz [~no@178.181.211.125.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:52:18 benny [~benny@i577A2282.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:52:33 MoALTz [~no@178.181.211.125.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 10:52:35 plist is a (:key "value") right? I want to be able to have non-symbols as keys too 10:52:56 mlkith: nothing wrong with that. just use a non-symbol as key 10:53:05 mlkith: the extra cons is redundant. 10:53:22 yes you're right 10:59:10 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082B5B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:38 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B3D6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:04:46 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 11:05:00 robde [~robde@wlan-94-87.uni-koblenz.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:07:18 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:07:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:11:55 -!- kanru` [~user@218-167-103-89.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:18 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:15:32 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:17:56 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@212-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:25:01 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: kthxbye] 11:27:08 Xach, what do you think about rolling release model for quicklisp? 11:27:52 asvil`: doesn't work, then we'll have conflicting systems as before 11:28:08 one of the _big_ advantages of quicklisp is that the systems are compatible to each other 11:28:18 and that needs some kind of snapshot 11:29:14 asvil`: What's a rolling release? 11:29:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:29:40 given a function name is there a way to get it's keyword arguments as a list? 11:30:34 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:31:37 mlkith: not in a standard way 11:33:17 Xach: I think he means everything being updated one at a time on the fly 11:33:20 as opposed to all at once 11:33:57 flip214: I imagine the amount of manhours necessary for it to be meaningfully distinct would be a problem too. 11:35:06 Xach, it means that all soft in repository is the newest, like in archlinux 11:35:33 Xach: what is cache/asdf-fasls/? there are quite a few directories there, can I clean them up? 11:38:39 flip214: It's where asdf.lisp fasls are stored. Sure, you can remove it, it's a cache, created on demand. 11:39:00 asvil`: newest? 11:39:23 (loop (key value) in list by 'cddr .. ) SBCL is giving me "Use of QUOTE around stepping function in LOOP will be left verbatim." warning. if I use #'cddr there's no warning. why is it warning me? I thought there's no issue in using 'function instead of #'function 11:40:38 mlkith: It can mean very different things depending on context. 11:41:06 yes 11:41:19 i know, but both are valid, so I'm puzzled by that warning 11:41:32 mlkith: Are they? 11:41:43 aren't they? 11:41:47 mlkith: Which section of the loop spec describes the value of BY? I can't find it. 11:41:56 'foo = (quote foo), #'foo = (function foo) 11:41:58 *Xach* is in a maze of twisty sections, all alike. 11:46:31 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zlxjxgrwiorqdvnn] has left #lisp 11:47:12 mlkith: ahh, 6.1.2.1.2 says "the *function* step-fun is applied to the list" (emphasis mine) 11:47:18 mlkith: it does not mention a function designator 11:47:25 mlkith: i suspect that's the rationale for the warning 11:49:12 I see. is there any reason why standard would explicitly require a function? 11:50:40 I don't know. 11:54:47 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:51 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-241-85-191.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 12:02:48 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:05:44 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.210] has joined #lisp 12:06:53 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:31 need some help with loop destructuring: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126968 12:13:16 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@m8f2c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:53 better indenting: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126968#1 12:17:02 oh nevermind, I should have used "on list" not "in list" 12:17:05 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:22:56 -!- kilon_away is now known as kilon 12:23:22 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 12:28:51 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:29:25 teggi [~teggi@113.172.51.163] has joined #lisp 12:30:49 -!- robde [~robde@wlan-94-87.uni-koblenz.de] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 12:31:19 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.210] has joined #lisp 12:32:17 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.241.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:22 Xach: your blog says that slimes wire protocol has changed, and yes, slimv doesn't work anymore. Any ideas where I can find more details? 12:41:55 flip214: I mailed you about it 12:42:26 the length field of each chunk now encodes number of utf-8 bytes, not number of characters 12:44:37 dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 12:45:08 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:50:00 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-238.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 12:50:24 lichtblau [~user@port-92-195-61-79.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 12:50:27 Xach: ping 12:52:07 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-133.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 12:53:15 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.210] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:55:10 silenius [~silenius@i59F76C70.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 12:55:47 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 13:04:08 Kryztof: thanks a lot! ah, that's much better ... but doesn't explain why slimv doesn't work anymore 13:08:13 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.176] has joined #lisp 13:12:56 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:13:19 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:13 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 13:17:16 lichtblau: hi 13:18:09 do you think it's an ugly hack to use (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) for a make-some-var function, so that I can have (defparameter *var* (make-var)) at top? 13:18:48 do you just put the function at top in cases like this or? 13:19:47 mlkith: defvar/defparameter do not evaluate the value form at compile time 13:20:33 Kryztof: where did you mail that? 13:20:35 then why am I getting "The function is undefined" error" ? 13:21:01 robde [~robde@wlan-94-41.uni-koblenz.de] has joined #lisp 13:21:22 oh you meant I can omit :compile-toplevel there? 13:21:42 mlkith: you can omit the eval-when 13:21:55 mlkith: What did you do that prompted the error? 13:22:00 SBCL is giving me function undefined error without it 13:22:14 mlkith: What did you do that prompted the error? 13:22:18 I loaded the system that uses that .lisp file 13:22:18 flip214: Thanks for making me aware of slimv. I'll definitely have to check it out 13:22:29 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:23:01 mlkith: Does the function definition precede the defvar form? 13:23:15 no obviously 13:23:26 see my original question 13:24:00 You can put a forward declaration of the function such as (declaim (ftype function your-function)). 13:24:11 mlkith: So by "top" you mean as the first form of the file? 13:24:18 *Xach* interpreted it as top-level 13:24:35 yes 13:24:47 mlkith: I think it is somewhat ugly to do that, yes. 13:24:53 There's no accounting for taste, though. 13:25:05 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 13:26:29 -!- z` [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:26:56 I don't get it though, you said defvar and defparameter do not evaluate the value at compile time. so why doesn't it work? 13:27:04 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-206-11.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:27:29 mlkith: They evaluate at load time, and at load time the function definition has not yet been loaded. 13:28:00 arranging for the function to be loaded first in some way would do the trick. 13:28:07 flip214: in our conversations about swankr 13:29:50 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@75-162-53-63.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:30:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.174.47] has joined #lisp 13:30:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@176.222.174.47] has quit [Changing host] 13:30:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:31:31 pon1980 [~pon@195.67.88.105] has joined #lisp 13:31:32 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195.67.88.105] has left #lisp 13:31:48 pon1980 [~pon@195.67.88.105] has joined #lisp 13:32:54 *Xach* hasn't heard howls of pain about slime yet 13:36:05 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:36:21 *Xach* has heard one howl of pain re hunchentoot/restas but suspects it is a local config issue 13:37:25 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has joined #lisp 13:38:08 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-133.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:38:58 Xach: may I bother you about that PDF question? I'm really curious what library to use there; since I'm not aware of good, free OCR code. 13:39:49 Clearly my setup is too old, since the chrome(ium) 13 that I have here doesn't do any of this fancy stuff. 13:41:36 Kryztof: didn't get _any_ email in the last 2 hours 13:45:03 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:00 . 13:49:49 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:45 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 13:52:21 -!- robde [~robde@wlan-94-41.uni-koblenz.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:52:29 is there something similar to closer-mop but for regular introspection (ie: is there a cross platform way of getting function-arglist) 13:52:57 swank is the only thing i know along those lines, but maybe someone has extracted that part from it? 13:53:08 thanks! 13:57:52 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:59:18 _nix00 [~Adium@114.86.214.228] has joined #lisp 13:59:38 slime q: when i load a system using ",load", slime processes the compilation warnings and errors for me. is there a way to jump to the next warning found? i know that M-n and M-p work within a file with errors/warnings, but how do i jump to the next file? 14:05:36 how come (= 100000000000.0 100000000000) gives me NIL ? for smaller numbers it returns T 14:06:53 is it a bug? 14:07:15 mlkith: floating point precision 14:07:30 mlkith: there is an article called "What Every Computer Scientist Should Know About Floating Point" 14:07:37 ah right 14:07:39 even if you're not a computer scientist, your question is answered by that article 14:08:11 I know about that article, it's been in my "to read" directory for the past 2 ears 14:08:30 now might be a good time to read it 14:08:36 The paper and the hour have met 14:09:33 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.240.209] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:10:54 but yeah it's pretty obvious why it happens in this case, floating point is just an approximation of a number. I was expecting this to be a CL quirk, like eq vs eql 14:11:55 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:12:50 so I think I can postpone reading that article for another year or two. :) 14:13:40 for my sake, please don't 14:13:53 because if you read it now you won't ask me any floating point questions 14:17:57 mlkith: Unless you still want to look dumb in two years. It might be professionnally fatal. 14:18:03 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:19:10 If it was professionally fatal, there would be a lot fewer programmers in the world. 14:19:35 Which would be a good thing, for software quality, and programmer salaries. 14:19:44 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-240-209.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:20:36 Such a wonderful fantasy! 14:20:38 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:59 it's OK to open your eyes now 14:21:36 Just make a promise not to hire such people, or to fire them. 14:22:01 oh the wonders of natural language 14:23:03 ikki [~ikki@189.195.71.121] has joined #lisp 14:25:10 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82CEDD.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:27:01 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:27:12 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:28:09 -!- PissedNu1lock is now known as PissedNumlock 14:38:12 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:38:19 Yuuhi```` [benni@p5483AB33.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:31 SurlyFrog1 [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:39:59 ryepup` [~user@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 14:40:05 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:05 -!- drdo [~drdo@ling0.drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:05 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:05 -!- djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:05 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:05 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:05 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483AB33.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:06 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:06 -!- v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:06 -!- sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:06 -!- housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:06 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:40:12 -!- whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-anzzlgqwjdlghhuw] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:40:21 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 14:40:24 whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pgugrraiijuxvapj] has joined #lisp 14:40:30 -!- ryepup [~user@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:35 Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 14:40:43 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 14:40:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:51 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:54 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 14:40:55 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:40:55 -!- foocraft [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:41:01 foocraft [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:03 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:41:09 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 14:41:10 drdo [~drdo@ling0.drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 14:41:56 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:42:45 Nisstyre [~yours@c-208-90-102-250.netflash.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:46 So wait... the whole 'design using protocols' thing in AMOP -- that's just an explanation of what's otherwise known as the Strategy pattern, isn't it? 14:43:15 is there a difference? 14:43:34 *Xach* does not know what the Strategy pattern is, cannot comment 14:43:57 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:18 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategy_pattern fwiw. 14:46:09 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:20 i probably am missing something, but how is this strategy pattern different from polymorphism? 14:46:20 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:21 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:46:26 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 14:46:36 it's a way to use polymorphism. 14:46:54 oh, right, i read the diagram wrong 14:48:11 sykopomp: is "design using protocols" a chapter in AMOP? 14:48:20 i don't have the book handy 14:48:40 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 14:48:54 jdz: in a way, it's what half the book is about. 14:49:18 protocols are like interfaces, and it looks to me they are orthogonal to the strategy pattern 14:49:35 "Chapter 4: Protocol Design" 14:51:01 I think they didn't call it the Strategy Pattern since AMOP was published 3 years before Design Patterns 14:51:31 Is Strategy even in the Go4 book? 14:51:37 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:43 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 14:51:48 Nope  yay Wikipedia references. 14:52:09 zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.19.46] has joined #lisp 14:52:26 Head First Design Patterns, 2004 (at least, that's the only one mentioned) 14:53:07 actually the third paragraph in the wikipedia article sums it up 14:53:20 sellout: funny, that's where I learned about Strategy. 14:53:59 multiple dispatch probably makes this pattern not very explicit 14:54:16 well 14:54:26 slot-value-using-class? 14:54:52 I think I see what you mean, though. 14:54:58 So, I still cannot make up my mind -- are these design patterns worth reading about? 14:55:14 deepfire: they are, but many are not useful with lisp 14:55:39 deepfire: start with http://norvig.com/design-patterns/ 14:56:11 rudi, thank you a lot -- that was the kind of reference I hoped for? 14:56:13 er 14:56:22 rudi, thank you a lot -- that was the kind of reference I hoped for! 14:56:54 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:00 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 14:57:07 deepfire: there's more to design patterns than learning to solve problems. A big part of it is communication. It's easier for me to say "This is the Strategy pattern in action" than to go on a long explanation about how the application is structured. 14:57:12 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:57:53 Ahh, I wish it was presented in a form more advanced than html/ppt. 14:58:04 or "It's like the Visitor pattern on steroids" when talking about multiple dispatch. :> 15:01:53 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 15:02:37 sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:35 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.195.71.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:03:44 chp [~user@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:12 Nice, the ppt doesn't open in libreoffice 3.3. 15:04:25 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:06:47 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:07:14 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:44 tritchey [~tritchey@12.236.109.2] has joined #lisp 15:12:38 fdelgado [~fdelgado@184.105.242.75] has joined #lisp 15:14:34 -!- fdelgado is now known as felideon 15:17:10 asvil`` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 15:18:45 -!- asvil` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:20:37 bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has joined #lisp 15:20:39 Hi there 15:21:44 rme [~rme@50.43.137.115] has joined #lisp 15:22:10 I want to learn lisp (already using a little bit of elisp), which interpreter/compiler/thingy should I use ? 15:22:28 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:22:55 Odin- [~sbkhh@214-106-22-46.fiber.hringdu.is] has joined #lisp 15:23:40 clozure cl, sbcl, and clisp are the ones I use. 15:24:18 all are Free ? 15:24:33 bjonnh: They don't cost a penny 15:24:57 I mean free in a free-software meaning ;) 15:25:31 bjonnh: I think Clisp is even GNU  maybe? 15:25:47 (but all are Open Source at least) 15:25:47 the three listed above are LGPL, public domain, GPL, respectively 15:26:00 thanks 15:26:21 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:21 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:28:36 is there a gtk (or some gui portable thing) support with these ? 15:28:56 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 15:29:11 Yes. 15:29:19 if I understand well Common Lisp is a norm. And these 3 things respect this norm. So almost any code made with one of these would work on the others ? 15:29:40 bjonnh: any conforming code. 15:30:04 for sure 15:30:14 bjonnh: there is a log of non-conforming code (eg. using extensions) that runs only on a single or a few implementations. 15:30:20 s/log/lot/ 15:31:25 and are these code non-conforming due to lazyness or due to technical limitations ? 15:31:47 The standard covers a limited domain. 15:32:56 The language is tricky in some places: programmers (including implementers) may be often ignorant of some tricky implications of the specification. 15:33:26 Writing conforming code is indeed a little more work than just writing for your current implementation. 15:33:50 eg. instead of using SB-ALIEN FFI, you must fetch CFFI and use it. 15:34:02 e.g. there is the same problems with C and gcc extensions. 15:34:31 eg. in SBCL you can use apply on any list length since it's call-arguments-limit is basically bigger than memory size. 15:34:38 daimrod: definitely. 15:35:45 And finally, there maybe some technical limitation, ie. missing implementation extensions and portability libraries, but with time this problem tend to disappear. 15:36:31 however if find it a lot easier to make portable code in CL than in C. #+SBCL vs #ifdef  15:36:52 daimrod: each time you write #+sbcl, you're missing a #-sbcl... 15:37:21 ie. your code may be conforming, but may still only work well on a few implementations. 15:38:16 oh right. 15:38:20 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:15 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-212.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:39:23 daimrod: even using portability libraries (which I prefer over embedded #+sbcl), may not fit the bill. Eg. Bordeaux-threads can only have stub functions on implementations that don't support threading... 15:39:39 bjonnh: anyway, http://www.cliki.net/Getting%20Started might be a good place to start. 15:40:55 -!- Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:08 Praise [~Fat@unaffiliated/praise] has joined #lisp 15:42:15 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:43:28 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has left #lisp 15:43:47 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.15.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:44:17 bjonnh: As a beginner most of what you will want to do beyond what is specified by the standard will best be done through compatibility libraries, imo -- so I would install any implementation and have fun. 15:45:22 When you feel like it you can install one of the other implementations, note that your program still runs, and smile. 15:46:06 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 15:46:12 hmmm slime doesn't want to launch (error in timer) 15:46:15 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-63-146.lns1.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:46:48 Vivitron: well, it's not so easy, if you're not conscious of what is conforming and what is not. And this is close to having to be a language lawyer. 15:47:50 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 15:49:09 pjb: your right, I over stated it, but while a project is small it's usually not so hard either. bjonnh: from what source did you get slime/a more detailed error might be helpful 15:50:19 bjonnh: perhaps it cannot locate an implementation. Have you configured inferior-lisp-program ? 15:50:22 does anyone know if the paren-match error in climacs is a bug of climacs itself or is mediated by something else ? 15:50:25 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:51:06 hmmm the lisp paste is not working there 15:51:13 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20120104111456]] 15:51:28 diginet [~user@ppp-70-247-43-95.dsl.hstntx.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:31 Yes, it is. 15:51:34 bjonnh: you have to copy the link manually. 15:51:34 I see three copies. 15:51:42 does anyone know any examples of emulators written in lisp? 15:51:53 i wonder why lisppaste can't be fixed? 15:51:55 diginet: emulator of what? 15:52:01 i mean, this is really embarrassing. 15:52:02 diginet: nyef wrote a TI Explorer emulator in CL, IIRC 15:52:07 We're becoming lazy. 15:52:14 H4ns: maintainers too busy 15:52:20 pjb: the page is blank after submit 15:52:22 i started sbcl with --no-sysinit and --no-userinit and loaded ql and climacs to test if i get the same error, it's the same error i get, climacs does not count the parens right or so.... 15:52:30 Xach: who's that? 15:52:42 bjonnh: remove the /submit part of the url, and your paste will be amongst the firsts. 15:52:42 H4ns: don't know 15:52:56 Well, to be clear. I'm trying to write an emulator for a very old computer in Lisp, but I was wondering if there were any examples of emulators, in general, in Lisp, just to get a feel for how to go about it 15:52:58 (...) 15:53:15 I have an emulator of population growth here: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/douze.lisp 15:53:40 diginet: http://www.unlambda.com/nevermore/ 15:53:46 diginet: basically you're writing a virtual machine. 15:54:21 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126974 15:54:26 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:46 pjb: I know 15:54:53 bjonnh: i think upgrading emacs should help 15:55:05 bjonnh: someone had this problem yesterday 15:55:06 diginet: (defstruct machine memory pc) (defun vm (machine) (with-accessors ((memory machine-memory) (pc machine-pc)) machine (loop for inst = (aref memory (incf pc)) do (case inst ((0) ...) ((1) ...) ...)))) 15:55:12 H4ns: it's emacs 24.0.92.1 15:55:15 bjonnh: the solution seemed to involve not byte-compiling slime 15:55:16 Xach: thaks for the link 15:55:21 pjb: thanks 15:55:53 bjonnh: hm. sorry, then i don't know. 15:56:15 bjonnh: http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/2012-01/lisp-2012.01.08.txt - see "error in timer" 15:56:38 Xach: thanks, it works :) 15:56:48 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-137-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 15:57:23 bjonnh: what's the fix? 15:59:50 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:59:59 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:12 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 16:00:17 H4ns: remove the .elc file 16:00:30 bjonnh: ah, cool, thanks! 16:00:51 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:00:53 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:02:52 that Raven emulator is fascinating. I didn't know the TI Explorer had DECnet! 16:03:29 diginet: in that generation, decnet was pretty much mandatory in the scientific community 16:03:40 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 16:04:05 H4ns: really? I didn't know that. I love DECnet :) 16:04:13 so do i :) 16:04:16 I thought the LispM's used CHAOSNET 16:04:20 well, i _loved_ decnet 16:04:27 Phase V is stupid 16:04:27 diginet: genera has decnet, too 16:04:39 the OSI stuff killed DECnet 16:04:42 Lisp Machines also had TCP/IP and a NFS server written in lisp... 16:04:45 among other things 16:04:57 robde [~robde@p579031F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:10 diginet: decnet pIV did not scale at all 16:05:16 Well, I guess I'll tell you guys more about my project. I'm trying to write an emulator for the Honeywell DPS8 to run Multics 16:05:17 but it was cool :) 16:05:27 diginet: woo-hoo 16:05:31 Xach: take a break :) 16:05:31 H4ns: true, it had a limit of like 1024 nodes IIRC? 16:05:40 diginet: that's cool. 16:05:48 pjb: thanks, it won't be easy though 16:05:59 Do you have all the doc about the DPS8? 16:06:02 diginet: i think it was 1024 nodes per area, with 256 areas. 16:06:21 pjb: mostly, I got what I could from bitsavers, though info on the IO system is very sketchy 16:06:42 the CPU is very well documented, it's the (rather complicated) IO system I'm worried about getting working 16:06:43 -!- wondertageous [~wondertag@123.233.215.219] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 16:07:05 diginet: you may also have a look at the sources of qemu and bochs 16:07:10 H4ns: Ah, I'm sure you know more than I do 16:07:16 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.236.109.2] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 16:07:31 n1tn4tsn0k [~kvirc@178.47.16.125] has joined #lisp 16:07:54 pjb: they're not written in lisp are they? Or do you mean just to get an idea of how to write an emulator/VM? Thanks for the tip. I've been looking at SIMH a lot, which is thankfully very well commented/documented 16:08:22 diginet: in emulators, there won't be a lot of language related differences. 16:08:28 -!- pnathan is now known as pnathan|work 16:08:29 pjb: that's true 16:08:34 Well, of course you may use closures in CL, but that's about it. 16:08:53 diginet: on the other hand, for JITC emulators... 16:08:57 pjb: yeah, my main reason to use lisp is that I'm just most comfortable with the syntax 16:09:04 Indeed. 16:09:14 And you may also use macros profitably. 16:09:20 yeah, for sure 16:09:37 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-115-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:39 Even though I can fudge my way through C, the syntax gives me a headache, and it's very unreadable for me 16:10:12 diginet: what may be interesting there is to see how they emulate the devices and I/O. 16:10:23 plus, the emulator is sort of a prelude to my more general goal of rewriting Multics in Lisp 16:10:31 pjb: that's a good point 16:10:45 diginet: same for me for lisp for the moment ;) it takes me a loong time in order to understand a small piece of code 16:12:07 bjonnh: well, it just takes time as with anything. The thing that's nice about Lisp is that it's very consistent, and you're more or less dealing with one time of "punctuation" (parentheses) so you don't need to worry about a ton of different constructions 16:12:16 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.51.163] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:08 the thing I do like about lisp, is that I find myself more forced to /really/ understand what I'm reading, whereas in other languages I can gloss over stuff I don't quite get. 16:14:13 diginet: I like not needing to remember whether the language wants "else if" "elseif" or "elif" 16:14:34 ryepup`: oh yes1 that is wonderful 16:15:12 hahah, oh wow. I think I have about 300 PDFs on my hard drive of multics/DPS8 dox 16:15:23 ...this is going to be "fun" 16:15:58 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 16:17:59 my event based http server using iolib is actually slow. I think this because I'm using a 10 bytes buffer to transfer data (for example I can barely reach 710 Kb/sec) . Is there a way to determine the correct size of the transfer buffer (used by read-sequence and write-sequence) or is it complitely empirical ? 16:18:55 kiuma: "the transfer buffer"? 16:19:24 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129006118.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 16:19:44 H4ns, s/the transfer buffer/array used by write-sequence and read-requence/ 16:20:18 kiuma: why can't you make that large? like, say, 4k or something? 16:20:56 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:22:10 Of course I can, the server will be finely grained configurable, but I was wondering it there was a method for calculating its size. 16:22:18 make it as large as possible and let the OS split it up into smaller parts 16:22:40 rudi, ?? 16:22:51 kiuma: the size of the buffer determines how many clients you'll be able to serve. 16:23:05 H4ns, what I was thinking 16:23:22 kiuma: begin with modest goals. say, like 100 clients. 16:23:40 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:42 kiuma: then think about how you can actually test with 100 clients. 16:23:43 kiuma: why would you have the buffer less than 4k? 16:23:58 -!- dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: +++ATH0] 16:24:01 probably 10 bytes with 16Gb is fits for google, not for the modest kiuma 16:24:16 jdz, just for testing purposes :) 16:24:28 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has left #lisp 16:24:34 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 16:24:36 kiuma: the result of your test is: "performance sucks if buffer is too small" 16:24:47 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:24:48 right 16:24:56 ffs, i was *looking* at a browser tab when i pressed ^w 16:25:11 not the first time, not the last 16:25:30 jdz: shift-ctrl-t? 16:25:39 ps, I've finally been able to serve download resume requests for static files 16:25:42 in xchat? 16:26:12 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has left #lisp 16:26:18 jdz: axo 16:26:21 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:26:35 lol I tried that to :) 16:26:36 haha, another one 16:26:47 I didn't know 16:26:58 you better forget it now 16:27:04 yea :) 16:28:00 tomorrow I'll add cookies support, then in order fast-cgi, websockets and last SPDY 16:28:31 as long as all the configuration settings I have to do :) 16:29:32 _nix001 [~Adium@114.86.214.228] has joined #lisp 16:29:33 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.86.214.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:52 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD726E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:45 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F76C70.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:01 _nix00 [~Adium@114.86.214.228] has joined #lisp 16:33:01 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@114.86.214.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:13 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-180-55.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:40:21 -!- pnathan|work [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:40:57 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-206-11.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 16:41:22 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 16:43:38 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:47:39 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:53 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:47:54 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:39 kilon [~user@athedsl-320473.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:51:31 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@114.86.214.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:51:32 _nix001 [~Adium@114.86.214.228] has joined #lisp 16:53:29 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 16:53:33 Greetings lispers 16:53:37 Hi 16:53:42 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:28 zmv [~zmv@186.204.151.21] has joined #lisp 16:56:18 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:56:18 -!- mlkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 16:57:17 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:57:28 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.255] has joined #lisp 16:59:00 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:26 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:02:48 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:02:57 H4ns: a break? 17:03:17 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rwbjxkyupbxyazzz] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:09:20 Xach: already done discussing ancient hardware, relax! 17:10:14 Jasko [~tjasko@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 17:10:34 tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 17:11:55 kilon` [~user@athedsl-319560.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:13:02 phew. i was in a meeting. 17:13:55 -!- kilon` [~user@athedsl-319560.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:15 -!- kilon [~user@athedsl-320473.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:14:24 -!- ehu [~erik@62.140.137.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:52 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 17:16:24 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:16:37 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-396656.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 17:18:36 -!- robde [~robde@p579031F4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Gone.] 17:19:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:39 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:24:23 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:49 -!- vantage|work [~chatzilla@d5152EDDB.static.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 9.0.1/20111220165912]] 17:31:44 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:33:33 Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-136-227.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 17:35:20 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-133.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:35:53 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-127.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:21 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 17:39:03 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.243] has joined #lisp 17:40:35 The scientific community, and NIST in particular, is starting to "embrace" XML. See FemML, MatML, UnitsML. So, now I have a need for XML<->Lisp. Is it reasonable to assume that I can use a library to automagically perform this conversion, or am I better off starting from a validating parser and hand coding the conversion? 17:40:57 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 17:41:09 MathML is ridiculous 17:41:29 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:41:37 diginet: Not MathML, MatML, a materials database. The commercial FEA product I use is starting to rely on it. 17:41:38 ThomasH: From XML->sexp, or XML->objects, or what? 17:41:39 I mean, it's not like there is an excellent typsetting system for math that's been around for years or anything? 17:41:49 ThomasH: oh okay 17:42:24 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:32 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 17:42:44 sellout: XML->objects would be nice, but I'm thinking that XML->sexp then sexp->custom conversion->objects is probably necessary. 17:42:46 diginet: TeX is not excelent. It has big problems as a document format. 17:43:16 pjb: I love TeX, lol 17:43:25 ThomasH: Well, there is XMLisp for directly to objects, but if you want sexp, there's a bunch of stuff. I think cxml is the most popular. 17:44:11 I think xmls is the most popular. 17:44:18 xmls is the simpliest one. 17:44:19 sellout: I was looking over XMLisp, very intriguing for sure. I'm just wondering if I'm expecting too much to go directly from XML->objects. 17:44:30 pjb: xmls doesn't validate. Is that a big deal? 17:44:34 I never had to use cxml or more sophisticated xml processing packages. 17:44:35 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:44:46 I think I want something that validates. 17:44:48 ThomasH: Not for me. I rarely find valid XML files... 17:44:53 pjb: Hah! 17:44:58 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:45:44 ThomasH: Yeah, I think it depends on how closely you want to maintain the XML structure. If your classes don't map it, going via sexp is probably the right way. 17:46:22 I haven't used XMLisp in many years, though, so *shrug* 17:47:17 CXML can output a similar sexp equivalent that xmls does 17:47:18 sellout: Yeah, that was my suspicion. I have a solid mechanics library that already has a material properties class. I'm debating on whether the better aprpoach is to modify my library to use a class generated from the MatML schema, or simply write and maintain a converter. 17:47:25 I wouldn't use xmls 17:47:50 Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:47:57 XML is too complicated to get right 17:48:11 with a simple solution 17:48:40 CXMLs sexp output is decent, though 17:49:52 what amazes me is that the XML gets so much acceptance whereas people immediately complain about all the parenthesis in SEXP, yet they are the same structure and SEXP is easily the more readably and far less verbose 17:50:06 dlowe: So, validating parser->SEXP->objects via custom SEXP->object routines. That is appealing because then I don't have to modify my material properties class. 17:50:20 but that aside I would recommend CXML as well 17:50:21 ThomasH: that's what I like to do 17:50:32 msponge [~msponge@30-7-147.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 17:50:34 Guthur: Preaching to the choir. 17:50:45 -!- msponge [~msponge@30-7-147.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:48 lax parser->SEXP->objects via custom SEXP->object->SEXP->valid writer would be more useful. 17:50:51 Guthur: people like the end tags 17:51:01 ThomasH: yeah I know, just like to complain about XML when I can, hehe 17:51:02 because they use lame editors 17:51:04 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-133.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 17:51:29 pjb: That is probably more pragmatic, for sure. 17:52:01 it is laughable though, I sometimes stray into .NET where there is a perverse love affair with XML 17:52:20 too the point some people want to code everything in XAML 17:52:21 Speaking of valid writer, is there one or is it left an as exercise for the developer? 17:52:23 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:52:34 cxml 17:52:47 I should resubmit my cxml-xmls patch 17:52:48 cxml is the answer to all things xml and lisp 17:53:04 *ThomasH* nods 17:53:15 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:53:44 Guthur: the web side of my company mantains an insurance app that's pretty much coded up like that. 17:54:12 sipo: some of its ok, the data binding stuff is reasonable 17:54:24 when it's simple 17:55:24 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-222-110.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:00 maybe some time in the near future some people will have revelation that 'hey, this XML is just crap version of SEXPs 17:56:01 ' 17:56:36 i hope they do :) 17:56:37 *Guthur* must stop ranting 17:56:40 Guthur: I'm sure that will occur right after achieving World Peace. 17:57:44 have found that setting climacs-gui:*climacs-text-style* affects if/how paren-matching/counting is done.... 17:58:34 when i set it to anything other than (clim:make-text-style :fix nil nil) i get counting/matching errors and blinking is suppressed 17:58:55 I'm obviously biased towards cxml, but if you want to process xmls-like lisp structures: cxml does not aspire to provide such representations at all. It aims to provide building blocks for parsing and serialization, so that _you_ could build your lisp list representation yourself -- on top of it. "some assembly required" 17:59:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:59:32 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 17:59:35 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-133.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:59:49 lichtblau: why do that when there's already a representation included ;) 17:59:59 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:00:14 and if i set it to say (clim:make-text-style :fix :bold :large) it gets set and i can use that face but like said matching/counting is wrong then, and even changing gui.lisp back to it's original or setting that back to the old value does not reset it back to the :fix nil nil case, unless i remove all things from .cache/common-lisp/* 18:01:20 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195.67.88.105] has left #lisp 18:01:33 Guthur: not precisely. XML does have attributes, entities, validating schemas, and unicode support. 18:02:05 dlowe: sexps have validating functions and all CL implementations support unicode. 18:02:08 Oh, and incredible market penetration, so that just about everything has an XML parser/emitter 18:02:19 pjb: yes, but they aren't required to support it 18:02:22 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-215-14.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:30 so does anyone know why setting it to anything else then :fix nil nil causes that behaviour 18:02:40 dlowe: but neither does xml, afaics from the xml files I see. 18:02:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:57 ? 18:03:01 pjb: well, the sad reality is that there's a lot of crap xml-like documents :p 18:03:12 So sexps were right. 18:03:15 there's nothing to be done for such people 18:03:22 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:03:27 I doubt they could be trusted to generate nice sexps 18:03:29 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:32 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:03:42 so neither editing *climacs-text-style* in gui.lisp nor setting it in my .sbclrc is working.... 18:03:47 i mean working fully.... 18:03:50 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129006118.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:04:11 is that due to defvar instead of defparameter ? 18:04:12 I'm no fan of XML, but I like to hate things for real reasons :) 18:04:16 or some of it ? 18:04:37 homie: what package is *climacs-text-style* defined in? 18:04:52 climacs! 18:05:04 err climacs-gui sorry 18:05:28 are you setting climacs-gui:*climacs-text-style* in your .sbclrc? 18:06:13 dlowe: because the representation included is "sample code" quality at best :-(. What would you think about ripping it out of cxml proper, creating a github project cxml-xmls? 18:06:20 (setf climacs-gui:*climacs-text-style* (clim:make-text-style :fix :bold :large)) yes 18:06:51 dlowe: you see.... 18:07:15 homie: got me, then 18:07:31 the font gets large but there's no more paren-matching and the counting is wrong by offby1 18:08:14 dlowe: indeed, and though I dislike the verbosity of XML I do use quite often, mostly because it is often supported quite well in many languages 18:08:21 and i can't reset it...when i delete that line from my .sbclrc 18:08:34 for data interchange I often look to JSON first 18:08:36 unless i delete all stuff from .cache/common-lisp/* 18:09:05 the paren-matching is there when i start it with the original settings 18:09:11 and the counting is right too 18:09:13 -!- zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@27.47.19.46] has quit [Quit: ] 18:09:23 only when i change it, it happens.... 18:09:46 lichtblau: I'd support it as long as I wouldn't have to support it :) 18:10:20 lichtblau: I don't think it needs much more, though. 18:12:40 It looks like you can go XML->CXML:DOM->object or XML->CXML-STP->object. The STP looks like a handy alternative to the DOM. 18:14:17 homie: you could look at the parenthesis-highlighter function in mcclim/Drei/lisp-syntax.lisp. 18:14:25 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 18:14:32 ok i change all the defvars to defparameters first 18:14:37 oh ok 18:14:52 there's a cl-syntax.lsip in climacs too 18:14:57 .lisp* 18:15:11 lexer/parser 18:15:46 Don't use that. 18:15:57 erm, ok 18:16:00 CL syntax doesn't work, use Lisp syntax. 18:16:33 hmm ok 18:21:09 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:09 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:21:19 pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.114] has joined #lisp 18:21:28 why is cl-syntax.lisp only setting lsp and cl suffixes as pathname-types and not lisp too ? 18:22:42 whereas Drei/lisp-syntax.lisp sets all three 18:26:04 Because cl-syntax.lisp was never as useful as lisp-syntax.lisp, and so the author didn't want it to take precedence. 18:26:33 Don't let the name fool you, lisp-syntax.lisp is the real Common Lisp syntax. 18:26:46 ok 18:26:54 cl-syntax.lisp is an attempt to use a different parser algorithm (Earley), while lisp-syntax.lisp uses a standard LR. 18:27:30 hmm, i don't know nothing about earley and only basic stuff about LR 18:27:37 bleh 18:30:28 is that the easiest way to get all but the first and last elements of any list : (reverse (cdr (reverse (cdr '(a b c d))))) 18:31:03 bjonnh: (list* (first list) (last list)) is clearer. 18:31:07 got the earley parser description from wiki now 18:31:24 -!- guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-fhtxmrwvrwfstpjk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:31:26 bjonnh: (subseq list 1 (1- (length list))) 18:31:28 bjonnh: (rest (butlast list)). Or, better: make it so you don't have to do that. 18:31:34 *Xach* got it backwards 18:31:48 I don't know list* 18:31:56 (butlast (rest list)) conses 1 less. 18:31:58 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-krebhiuvrbnwerpn] has joined #lisp 18:32:04 bjonnh: http://l1sp.org/cl/list* 18:33:12 dlowe: your (1- xxx) is like (- 1 xxx) but with one less char ? 18:33:30 bjonnh: No, like (- xxx 1) 18:33:45 bjonnh: It's Lisp's decrement 18:33:54 except it doesn't decrement :p 18:34:05 bjonnh: it's just shorthand for (- x 1) 18:34:19 bjonnh: there's a 1+ function too 18:34:51 (- 1 x) would be (1 - x) not (x-1) 18:34:53 pjb: conses 1 less ? 18:35:22 homie: huh? 18:35:26 They should provide a more general version of 1+: (defun n+ (n x) (+ x n)) 18:35:40 gigamonkey: great idea! let's add that to the spec 18:35:53 gigamonkey: and, of course, 0+ for completeness 18:35:54 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:36:15 (- 1 x) in lisp would be 1 - x in non-lisp i mean 18:36:42 gigamonkey, haha 18:37:02 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:41:09 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.195.90] has joined #lisp 18:41:55 silenius [~silenius@i59F76C70.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:42:47 bjonnh: (rest (butlast list)) conses (1- (length list)) elements and then discards the first of the result. 18:43:11 bjonnh: (butlast (rest list)) discards the first, and then conses only (- (length list) 2) elements. 18:45:33 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-184-72-71-178.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:48:59 does anyone know how to get vim-slimv to work with .asd file buffers too? 18:49:41 Put ;; -*- mode:lisp -*- on the first line of the asd file? 18:51:04 pjb: Does that work? 18:51:50 moreso looking for the autocommand or whatever is enabling it for .lisp buffers 18:52:03 Xach: I don't know. 18:52:20 Xach: but perhaps vim processes emacs some file local variables too? 18:52:24 pjb: Does it? 18:52:32 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-107-22-137-127.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:35 emacs can process some vim file local variables... 18:52:58 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:53:07 Xach: if I were vim, I'd would want to process emacs some file local variables... 18:53:11 pjb: Ah, so a joke. Better to add some indicator, like a ":-)" suffix, or prefixing messages with your nickname. 18:53:23 If I were vim, I'd die to become emacs... 18:53:44 Xach: no, serriously. Why don't they process the emacs file local variables they can? 18:53:54 After all, emacs processes Zwei file local variables... 18:54:19 *Xach* guffaws 18:55:01 Try it: ;; -*- base:8 -*- 18:55:13 accept and see that M-: base RET gives 8 :-) 18:55:31 axion: Maybe the slimv mailing list or author can help. 18:58:18 totzeit1 [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:21 -!- pspace [~andrew@69.54.63.114] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:58:40 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.113.142] has joined #lisp 18:59:29 pjb: so you have less objects involved in memory ? 19:00:39 davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:45 bjonnh: yes. Less objects, less work. Of course, in this case it's 1 less, compared to a list of length O(N), so it doesn't really matter. But if you have m lists to process, that will be O(m) objects created and O(m) more work to the garbage collector. 19:01:51 -!- totzeit1 [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:02:45 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:31 bjonnh: but pjb's long-ago-made point still remains. Better to not have to slice up lists in this way. 19:05:49 Perhaps a vector (i.e. a 1-d array) would be a better choice of data structure? 19:09:24 I'm just beginning lisp :), I don't know these kind of things yet, but I noted it in my org notes 19:09:40 need to leave to the hacklab, see ya 19:09:49 -!- bjonnh [~bjonnh@147.210.71.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:15 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 19:11:26 rudi_ [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 19:11:57 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 19:13:19 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:14:22 silver [~kingrat@178.120.27.192] has joined #lisp 19:14:48 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@114.86.214.228] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:23 Gale_Lee [~lctc@14.104.130.76] has joined #lisp 19:18:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-205.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:18:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:05 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 19:19:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:20:12 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-133.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:25 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.50] has joined #lisp 19:23:55 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-61-154.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:11 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:25:43 ASau [~user@95-28-56-159.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:27:02 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:28:37 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:29:58 who does develop climacs and mcclim ? 19:30:16 homie: you 19:30:23 seems like it's not maintained anymore like ....since 1998 or so ? 19:30:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:31:04 homie: climacs is post-2000 i think. more like 2005 or so 19:31:05 talk to antifuchs. 19:31:11 no i mean who does edit the stuff, it gets edited tho, since all that stuff breaking appeared later on... 19:31:20 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:38 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-136-227.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:31:47 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 19:31:59 homie: I'm not maintaining it, but climacs and mcclim have last seen activity around 2010 or so 19:32:03 (afaict) 19:32:17 hmmm 19:32:44 might be some stuff happened later, but I don't think there was very much activity 19:33:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:34:47 broken glass and rusty rebar poking out from the attractive nuisance that is climacs 19:35:17 "i poked my leg! it is bleeding! where can i find a waiter in this hotel!" 19:36:51 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 19:37:35 homie: I think I was the last person to do major hacking on it, but it's been several years. 19:38:13 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:38:48 Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 19:39:44 Athas: didn't you notice that behaviour before ? 19:40:02 Athas: i mean like changing text-style affecting the lexer/parser or so ? 19:40:40 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:57 Athas: i really don't know what the syntax has todo with text-styles at all..... 19:41:26 Athas: would wish it was totally independent of that... 19:42:16 Athas: i can't work with so small fonts with climacs at all.... 19:42:25 Yes, I would think so too. You are using lisp-syntax.lisp, right? 19:42:45 err, what do you mean using lisp-syntax.lisp ? 19:42:50 i use climacs... 19:43:19 and it seems to use it's own climacs-lisp-syntax.lisp 19:44:12 No, that's just an extension of the one in McCLIM. 19:44:29 so how would i change it to use another one ? 19:44:36 or where rather.... 19:44:37 I don't know why changing the text style should have any effect. Does it happen no matter what you change it to? 19:44:52 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 19:45:41 yes as soon as i change it say :fix :bold :large or something different than :fix nil nil (the original value) it gets set and all the errors i mentioned appear, and i can't even set it back to when i change to old :fix nil nil value 19:45:49 unless i delete the .cache 19:46:20 and it's reproducible 19:46:53 starting with the original value with a clean .cache i have smaller fonts but paren-matching and counting works as expected 19:49:24 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:50:55 wait i'll try :fix :roman nil or :fix :roman :small and stuff.... and tell you 19:55:10 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 19:55:17 Demosthenes [~demo@me52c36d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:22 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-130.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:32 hasnointentions [~hasnointe@ip72-195-135-173.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:07 hah :fix :roman :small works 20:05:24 i'll check :fix :roman :large now 20:05:30 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-190-103.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:36 oioi 20:05:37 bleh 20:05:51 how does one implement map? 20:06:34 I have fixed argument functions and arbitrary argument macros at my hand. 20:06:58 wakeup: What hand is that? 20:07:28 Xach: my toy lisp dialect 20:07:43 (my first, be gentle) 20:07:57 and i also diabled the disabling of the *readtable* in my .sbclrc now... 20:08:05 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-249.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:07 wakeup: What map did you have in mind for implementing? 20:08:54 Xach: (map 'list function lists...) equivalent 20:09:33 wakeup: MAP is a function, so I suggest adding functions that can accept a variable number of arguments. 20:09:39 hah, paren-matching/highlighting works now but not counting 20:10:12 the message that (defun ...) got matched comes 1 paren too early.... 20:10:14 Xach: do I absolutely need those for map? 20:10:21 I thought I'd get by without 20:10:32 the message comes at )) not at the end of ))) 20:11:12 wakeup: That's why I asked what style you wanted. If you want to limit it to a single sequence, then you do not. 20:19:19 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 20:19:19 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 20:19:30 eep, the prolog cutters! 20:19:33 lol 20:20:05 DataLinkDroid [~David@101.161.140.172] has joined #lisp 20:23:43 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.57.132] has joined #lisp 20:24:39 astalla [~alessio@dynamic-adsl-94-36-37-188.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:25:19 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 20:25:41 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:26:57 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:26:57 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:11 AndChat- [~David@1.152.122.217] has joined #lisp 20:27:23 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:27:23 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-219.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:28:04 -!- AndChat- [~David@1.152.122.217] has quit [Client Quit] 20:28:06 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:28:45 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 20:29:50 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@101.161.140.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:30:27 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:31:04 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:04 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:15 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-114-40.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:32:45 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.57.132] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 20:34:07 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:36:50 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.96.68] has joined #lisp 20:37:42 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 20:44:09 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:44:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:44:36 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:46:39 -!- asvil`` [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:46:43 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:47:47 mint [~mint@c-98-223-24-100.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:37 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.235.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:50:57 -!- SurlyFrog1 [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:07 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:31 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-91-219.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:52:30 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 20:53:13 Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-173-250-159-222.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 20:54:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-219.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:12 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:31 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 20:55:43 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:55:44 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:08 horieyui [~crazyhack@183.60.100.161] has joined #lisp 21:07:15 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.113.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:07:34 p_l: how are you finding using Protocol Buffers in CL, and which lib are you using? 21:08:55 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.195.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:59 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:26 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-215-14.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:12:10 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-114-40.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:12:48 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:51 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 21:13:05 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:14:15 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:05 milanj [~milanj_@77-46-169-121.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 21:17:25 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:32 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:08 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-115-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:20:08 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:21:01 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@me52c36d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:42 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-115-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:19 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:23:51 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:25:36 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26:43 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-115-194.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 21:27:23 -!- silver [~kingrat@178.120.27.192] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:03 vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-155-239.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 21:30:04 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:30:47 -!- horieyui [~crazyhack@183.60.100.161] has left #lisp 21:31:24 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 21:31:24 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 21:32:31 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 21:33:25 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p57AD726E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:34:54 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:42 I considering a polling API http://paste.lisp.org/display/126983 21:36:19 the first one seems some what neater but I'm wondering if it ties the handler too explicitly to the socket object 21:36:28 francogrex [~user@109.130.95.121] has joined #lisp 21:36:40 Xach: you still here? 21:36:43 and whether I need a clearer separation of concern 21:37:13 Xach: I implemented map as a macro, care to look at it? 21:38:30 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126984 21:38:47 anyone else feel free to look at it too! :) 21:38:47 vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.57.132] has joined #lisp 21:39:28 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:31 why would you do that? :| 21:39:53 sykopomp: for my toy lisp dialect 21:40:03 why would you do that? :| 21:40:06 sykopomp: it doesn't have arbitrary argument lists 21:40:20 oh, this isn't CL. 21:40:26 well it is 21:40:47 it is CL code generating code for my lisp dialect 21:41:06 hopefully a correct map 21:41:12 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:41:27 wakeup: needing to implement map as a macro seems like a sign something has gone wrong. 21:41:39 Perhaps in the design of your toy lisp. 21:42:37 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:42:53 It is supposed to be compiled down to C, so I tried to avoid complexities in the C runtime 21:43:08 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-107-22-137-127.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:43:34 maybe it's no real lisp per se since it isn't supposed to be self evaluating 21:43:57 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:43:59 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 21:43:59 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 21:43:59 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 21:44:37 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 21:44:45 using CL for compile time heavily seems easier than extending the dialect's C runtime 21:44:45 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:45:18 Is there a distributed-hash-table library floating around somewhere? 21:45:28 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:28 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:45:29 gigamonkey: what do you think? 21:45:36 If not, I might try ripping mine out of this project. 21:45:45 And githubbing it. 21:45:51 sykopomp: sounds awesome 21:46:17 wakeup: I think you meant that for sellout 21:46:21 snearch [~snearch@e178191215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:46:30 I did, sorry about that 21:46:32 it does indeed sound awesome, hehe 21:46:46 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-174-129-83-65.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 21:48:00 sellout: would it be transport agnostic? 21:48:34 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 21:48:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 21:49:25 wakeup: I guess I'm not clear what you're trying to do. I.e. to what end are you writing a toy lisp? 21:49:27 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:50:19 Guthur`: What exactly do you mean by that? 21:50:37 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-190-103.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:15 sellout: will it have it's own baking in transport layer to the various peers, or could I place it on top of something else 21:51:17 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:25 s/baking/baked in 21:51:41 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:44 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:51:44 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:51:52 Mmm, it's baked-in right now. 21:52:00 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 21:52:14 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 21:52:30 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-238.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:52:40 might be nice if it could be layered on top project specific transports 21:54:10 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-154-127.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:56:00 n1tn4tsn0k|2 [~kvirc@178.47.208.225] has joined #lisp 21:56:04 anyone familiar with the ELS submissions, what is the difference between Demonstrations and Tutorials 21:56:21 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:38 The tutorial description uses the word indepth yet it is list after demos 21:56:41 -!- kilon is now known as kilon_bath 21:56:50 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.95.121] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:56:55 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:57:12 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 21:57:28 making it seem of lesser significance, with the list going Paper, Demo, Tut, Lightning 21:58:15 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~kvirc@178.47.16.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:58:36 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 21:59:45 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:41 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 22:02:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:12 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 22:04:46 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.153.212.229] has joined #lisp 22:07:58 -!- vantage|home [~vantage@109.131.57.132] has quit [Quit: Ik ga weg] 22:08:59 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:10:06 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:30 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 -!- MoALTz [~no@178.181.211.125.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:14:24 -!- kilon_bath is now known as kilon 22:17:17 -!- sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 22:22:25 -!- SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:22:48 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-396656.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:37 Does anyone know where to find a good resource for CLOS? 22:23:58 define 'resource' 22:24:59 Keene's book 22:25:08 keene's 22:25:09 yes 22:25:19 and amop 22:25:56 forget about closette tho.... 22:26:05 hi 22:26:12 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 22:26:12 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 22:26:12 Thanks 22:28:53 -!- snearch [~snearch@e178191215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:29:46 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-236.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:32 peearr [~aaron@159.153.4.51] has joined #lisp 22:31:00 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:32:40 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-155-239.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 22:34:05 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:35:09 -!- nialo_x is now known as nialo 22:35:42 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:42 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:41:09 -!- n1tn4tsn0k|2 [~kvirc@178.47.208.225] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:42:05 -!- prip [~foo@host194-132-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:42:09 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-1-238.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 22:42:12 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 22:42:12 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 22:42:19 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:44:23 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:23 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:36 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:31 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:52 Any good online resources on defstruct? 22:47:03 the clhs is nice. 22:49:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:49:29 the clhs is authoritative, at least 22:51:20 -!- Yuuhi```` [benni@p5483AB33.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:53:03 Cosman246: I found the CLTL2 description helpful 22:53:14 prip [~foo@host180-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:53:21 Thanks! 22:53:27 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:01 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 22:54:01 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 22:54:58 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:58 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:55:28 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:55:29 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:55:39 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:27 wakeup: sorry, i don't find toy lisps very interesting. 22:58:23 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:59:06 seangrove [~user@204.14.152.118] has joined #lisp 22:59:57 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:00:27 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 23:00:30 vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-247-069.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 23:02:40 Xach: thats ok, good night 23:03:08 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-154-127.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: "GAY HARD CREW IN THE HOUSE (MAYBE NOT ANYMORE)"] 23:03:50 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:09:17 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:10:28 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:19 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F76C70.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:23 -!- astalla [~alessio@dynamic-adsl-94-36-37-188.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 23:19:29 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:22:11 -!- prip [~foo@host180-194-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:29:45 lawful_evil [~ddcgavins@64-31-104-122.static-ip.telepacific.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:00 problem with hunchentoot on openbsd 5 i386 23:30:03 *** - Error while trying to load definition for system rfc2388 from pathname /home/g/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/rfc2388-20120107-http/rfc2388.asd: 23:30:03 SYSTEM::STRING-READER: Invalid byte #xC4 in CHARSET:ASCII conversion 23:31:01 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-38-57.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:31:23 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:31:28 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:14 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 23:33:13 lawful_evil: try starting your lisp in a way that uses UTF-8 for source code encoding. 23:34:33 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-90-138.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:35:24 prip [~foo@host109-122-dynamic.32-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:37:27 -!- vervic [~vervic@vie-188-118-247-069.dsl.sil.at] has quit [Quit: vervic] 23:38:21 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:39:04 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:46:36 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:49 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-95-117.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:47:16 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:47:52 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:48:56 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:25 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:49:46 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.148.156] has joined #lisp 23:51:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-221.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:15 wtf, how is nil :bold nil different than nil :bold nil for a bold and italic-bold face...... 23:51:21 lol 23:51:33 somone forgot anding ? 23:52:53 Organometallica [~Jeremy@henle2.scs.uiuc.edu] has joined #lisp 23:53:04 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 23:53:41 meh 23:55:39 -!- DataLinkDroid [~David@1.153.212.229] has quit [Quit: Bye]