00:00:09 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.212.106] has joined #lisp 00:01:29 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:26 -!- leth [~user@fsf/member/leth] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:31 leth [~user@fsf/member/leth] has joined #lisp 00:02:32 does any of the available Protocol Buffer libraries support Protobuf services? 00:02:38 (the RPC system) 00:03:43 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:52 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:07:32 nialo- [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:36 nialo_i [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:01 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:10:15 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 00:10:46 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:04 NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:29 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has left #lisp 00:17:09 djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:51 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 00:19:28 -!- jt123 [~jayan@cpc4-lutn3-0-0-cust768.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has left #lisp 00:21:07 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:09 edeloso [~user@c-66-30-9-243.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:34 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:24:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-165.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:24:35 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.61] has joined #lisp 00:26:45 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129248096.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:29:22 -!- nialo_i is now known as nialo 00:29:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:26 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2119E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:38:05 ebrima [~ebrima@cm-84.208.71.70.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 00:41:25 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:42:19 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:04 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:43:30 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:43:51 -!- ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 00:44:16 ghuntley [~ghuntley@14-200-9-232.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:44:20 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-136-8.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:45:57 I just made a commit message at work: "frob the fingerlickin slots" ("fingerlickins" is a class) 00:46:01 comedy gold, i know 00:46:59 -!- macrobat_ [~geggamojj@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: macrobat_] 00:48:02 fnsht 00:49:50 -!- ebrima [~ebrima@cm-84.208.71.70.getinternet.no] has left #lisp 00:50:09 *Xach* would never want to lick his fingers after using Qworkescence's product, having seen the demo 00:50:37 zmv [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has joined #lisp 00:51:50 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:53:11 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.211.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:53:53 *Xach* prepares a client update 00:53:55 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:54:45 something is wacky 00:54:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 00:56:58 i get end-of file errors on my .sbclrc 00:57:05 something got broke 00:57:12 marsell [~marsell@120.18.185.160] has joined #lisp 00:57:17 urandom__: sorry, i got called out. look at it like this: say i know that #lisp is 100 good (on a scale on which higher means better), and i assume #lisp isn't the best place to be. other places are better, far better i've heard. then i could assume that the world is 200 good. but now it seams that it's not as good outside of #lisp as inside of #lisp. suddenly the world is less than 100 good :( 00:57:18 removed all quicklisp .cache .slime folders... 00:57:23 and still..... 00:57:28 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-50-16-157-158.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:38 urandom__: i'd have preferred the world to be 200 good, regardless of the fact that i'm not in it. 00:57:56 urandom__: well, not that part of the world. that was the reasoning anyways. 00:58:51 sb-c::input-error-in-compile-file... 00:59:20 homie: ... are you sure something doesn't cause an unmatched open-paren? 00:59:54 nope, nothing like that 00:59:59 i looked now several times 01:00:15 always the same error on around the same lines almost 01:00:29 characters 1500 ca.. 01:01:06 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-50-19-203-12.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:16 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 01:02:25 wow madnificent,that took a while for me to understand, uhm well i am pretty sure there are better places than #lisp or what is important: there could be possible better places 01:03:53 and the backtrace does not tell much .... 01:03:56 urandom__: i thought everyone was better. now suddenly the world is worse than it was. but in comparison to others, i'm in a happy place <3 01:04:33 homie: what i used to do before paren matching helped me out was deleting half of the statements and seeing in which half the error occured. i know it's dumb but it'll likely help you see what you're missing. 01:05:13 madnificent: i already commented them in to see where i would maybe have forgotten to close a paren or so, but the line is ok 01:05:14 homie: in some languages (though not lisp, i think) i've accidentally inserted an invisible character somewhere that the parser didn't understand. i still don't know how that ever occured, but it has happened at least a couple of times. 01:05:34 hmmm, ok how do i check for invisible ones ? 01:05:40 homie: it's only one line? couldyou paste? 01:05:56 wait i'll paste it 01:06:02 homie: my method was insanely dumb 01:07:16 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:07:31 ddp [~ddp@anon-136-150.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 01:08:13 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 01:11:52 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126854 01:12:34 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 01:12:38 Xach, haha 01:14:09 and the character 1508 corresponds to #+quicklisp (progn (ql:update-client) (ql:update-all-dists)) <- in my file 01:14:27 after wich some commented in lines begin 01:14:34 and i don't see any errors so far there 01:15:12 it first was on other lines, then i began to comment in, and everytime i commented in everytime the error got somewhere else 01:16:20 homie: what's dtrace.lisp? (-: 01:16:29 homie: the progn after the progn which is after quicklisp misses a ) 01:16:37 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:16:37 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 01:16:37 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:16:42 methinks 01:16:59 ?? the progn after the progn ? 01:17:03 where's that ? 01:17:22 homie: the ;;; load IOFORMS dependencies via Quicklisp 01:17:23 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:19:51 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:10 oh maAAAnNNN 01:21:16 lnostdal [~Lars@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 01:23:06 *Xach* used load-logical-pathname-translations for the first time today 01:23:08 hehe, largest macroexpansion for me by far, 375 lines 01:23:20 thank you madnificent 01:24:13 a class definition and lots of getter/setter methods 01:25:23 come on, Guthur, you can do better than that ;) 01:25:24 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:28:26 yep, going to have try really hard next time 01:29:08 at the moment though I have more macros than anything else in this project, I might be developing a macro addiction 01:29:29 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:02 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:31 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:12 Guthur: I have this small project that's something like 90% support for macros ;) 01:38:44 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-126-164.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:41:59 Great tools to have. This project is a FFI binding so the macros are mostly hiding away nasty non-lisp stuff 01:43:56 homie: you're welcome, it can be hard to track if you try too hard :) 01:44:35 Guthur: which project 01:45:09 madnificent: It's not too exciting, mainly due to fact there is already a binding 01:45:34 albeit for a previous version of the underlying lib 01:45:55 I decided to great a binding for ZMQ 3.x 01:45:57 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:45:59 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.26.116] has joined #lisp 01:46:26 Guthur: zmq.in? 01:46:40 zeromq 01:47:27 the current one in quicklisp only supports 2.1 01:47:36 Guthur: no, that /does/ look cool 01:48:22 I'm considering building and distributed CL execute a mention last night on top of this 01:48:37 CLoud so to speak, hehe 01:49:20 Anyone care to help me benchmark something in Quicklisp? 01:49:23 Guthur: i can't parse that sentence 01:49:29 Xach: sure 01:49:33 Xach: tell me what and i'll see if i can do it :) 01:50:12 madnificent: yeah, my bad; I'm considering building that distributed CL execution I mentioned last night on top of this zmq project 01:50:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126855 01:50:34 Guthur: oh cool! 01:50:55 Xach: three times? 01:50:57 sorry, it's late and my already bad sentence composition has taken a hit 01:50:57 kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 01:51:07 need to get sleep, night all 01:51:16 madnificent: yes 01:51:26 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.94] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:08 dlowe: that is it 01:53:19 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:53:48 Xach: do you need to know anything aside form the machine it's running on? 01:54:56 I don't need to know that. I just would like to see the output. 01:55:02 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:04 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:55:04 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 01:55:18 ah, another timing is coming up though 01:55:26 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:55:42 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 01:55:56 Another timing? 01:56:16 pnq [~nick@ACA21A6D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:46 Xach: two boxes 01:57:09 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.185.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:20 madnificent: ok, now could you do (ql:update-client), restart lisp, and re-run the timing test? 01:57:27 sure 01:57:46 marsell [~marsell@120.18.185.160] has joined #lisp 01:57:49 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A1CE8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:25 implemented the cache, i see (just a sec) 01:59:41 mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has joined #lisp 02:00:14 Xach: reload, seems like it worked 02:00:22 am0c [~am0c@175.253.0.215] has joined #lisp 02:00:24 Xach: you got it 02:00:49 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has left #lisp 02:00:57 dlowe: thanks. could you also do (ql:update-client), restart lisp, and re-run the timing test? 02:01:22 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-50-19-203-12.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:50 -!- edeloso [~user@c-66-30-9-243.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:56 Xach: any others? 02:01:57 Xach: already done 02:02:18 thanks 02:02:37 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:04:48 ssssssd! 02:05:05 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-50-19-44-249.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:40 whot? 02:06:18 madnificent: ssds have fast i/o 02:06:20 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 02:06:57 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-136-150.relakks.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:07:51 Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:08:47 Xach: which one is so much faster than the others? 02:09:03 I don't know. 02:09:10 *Xach* doesn't have an SSD 02:10:10 the lappy has one, but it doesn't perform the test better than the others (though it's too full to be fast) 02:12:19 gko [~gko@27.240.67.68] has joined #lisp 02:13:53 Xach: get one! it's astounding how much better it makes everything! 02:14:37 antifuchs: it makes you more happy when using the computer :) 02:14:52 it makes you less sad too! 02:15:16 well yep, check-parens helps 02:15:19 I'm more of a disk-half-full kind of fella 02:15:29 with emacs 02:15:36 eheh 02:17:05 My wife had to reboot her macbook air yesterday and I thought it hadn't worked because it was so fast :( 02:17:14 *Xach* shakes fist at slow macbook 02:17:18 homie: use paredit and never have that issue again! that may not be entirely true, but it solves those cases where you don't pay attention 02:17:24 Xach: LoL 02:17:48 i have paredit enabled partially i think 02:18:07 but i was editing my .sbclrc with vim before 02:18:36 and the disk had an i/o boost or so don't know what happened, suddenly sbcl and kde got crawling 02:18:42 and then it happened 02:19:00 i must have hit a d or dd somewhere, when i was switching over to tty 02:19:15 something like that 02:19:29 and i thought maybe sbcl got corrupted or so 02:19:40 bleh 02:20:29 homie: so that means emacs >> vim right? 02:20:31 *madnificent* ducks 02:20:39 vim -> emacs 02:20:48 vim points at emacs? 02:20:54 well, on small files i use vim mostly 02:21:29 alias ecl=emacsclient 02:21:30 no i changed from editing with vim to editing with emacs on that file 02:21:54 alias eq='emacs -Q -q -nw -f show-paren-mode' i use now 02:22:17 you'll be better off using emacsclient 02:22:31 much faster than starting a whole new emacs 02:22:37 hmm, ok have to look later on that then 02:22:37 anyway. not #emacs. 02:24:34 Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:32 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:31:51 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@75-162-53-63.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:32:11 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.253.0.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:34:19 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:33 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 02:40:04 AltF4 [4c447d28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.68.125.40] has joined #lisp 02:40:18 hi 02:40:49 dlowe: that seems like a sketchy alias :P 02:41:30 can anyone tell me if there is any truth to this :P http://secretgeek.net/lisp_truth.asp 02:43:51 Seems a little over-enthusiastic. Programming is Lisp is fun, though. 02:44:05 heidymadia [~saasten@fm-ip-61.247.42.167.fast.net.id] has joined #lisp 02:44:34 :p 02:44:43 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 02:44:59 -!- AltF4 [4c447d28@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.68.125.40] has quit [Client Quit] 02:45:03 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 02:45:30 lol, article says paul graham wrote reddit 02:46:03 it's supposed to be funny 02:49:07 good to have facts straight before attempting humor 02:49:43 derrida: I can only assume you took at face value the assertion that paul graham wrote himself in lisp 02:50:11 he didn't? ;P 02:50:29 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:52:12 -!- pnathan` [~user@98.145.116.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:52:42 derrida: anyway, I don't use ecl, so it's a convenient alias 02:53:44 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 02:54:08 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03:48:01 hba [~hba@189.130.178.126] has joined #lisp 03:49:11 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: Heaven isnt a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.] 03:49:27 Xach: cdb++! 03:49:32 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-050.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:49:57 dlowe: what did you use for the networking backend of the MUD? 03:50:22 Tristam [~Tristam@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has joined #lisp 03:56:18 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 03:57:08 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:57:53 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 04:03:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 04:05:20 Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:31 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 04:06:49 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 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joined #lisp 04:19:22 Cosman246: posix calls :) 04:19:29 -!- dys` is now known as dys 04:20:02 dlowe: uh oh. how did you print to only one luser's console? 04:22:51 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:26:39 -!- saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:27:45 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:28:51 -!- nialo [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:31:57 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-126-164.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:38:45 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-126-164.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:41:02 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 04:43:15 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has joined #lisp 04:46:00 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:46:18 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:46:59 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.193.4] has joined #lisp 04:47:02 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-1-49.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 04:49:01 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dpytkxcbfuqsswow] has joined #lisp 04:53:22 dlowe: which posix calls? sorry, I haven't done telnet before 04:54:01 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:51 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:05:38 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 05:06:15 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:10:12 Younder [~john@135.236.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 05:10:36 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 05:11:24 wh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has joined #lisp 05:11:47 -!- wh is now known as Guest32177 05:12:03 Anyone got 'The art of computer programming'4A Combinatorial algorithms? 05:12:07 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-47-49.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 05:13:56 marsell [~marsell@120.18.178.135] has joined #lisp 05:14:50 I have a problem with page 422 exercise 11 05:15:09 432 05:18:49 -!- deech [~user@71-11-140-18.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:52 Cosman246: I assume he meant the C BSD IPC/Sockets API now part of POSIX, winsocks.dll is also a partial mostly compatible implementation of it for windows, and an FFI library allows CL code to call such C functions 05:19:10 phadthai: OK 05:19:14 Thanks 05:19:53 there are various other solutions for CL that exist, including usockets, SBCL-BSD sockets (SBCL and ECL have that library), iolib 05:20:07 Thanks! 05:20:21 (I'll look at the C Tempuscode implementation of it) 05:22:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.59.172] has joined #lisp 05:22:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.59.172] has quit [Changing host] 05:22:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:22:42 welcome (oh, the name of the SBCL/ECL one is sb-bsd-sockets, I mispelled it) 05:27:09 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 05:33:20 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.212.106] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:34:44 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 05:36:29 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:41:40 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:43:10 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:44:31 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:45:50 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:50:08 -!- _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:50:56 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:51:33 -!- Buglouse 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[~kilon@athedsl-318795.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 07:04:54 -!- heidymadia [~saasten@fm-ip-61.247.42.167.fast.net.id] has left #lisp 07:05:33 -!- kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-318795.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:09 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:09:41 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:09:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.193.4] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:10:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:11:39 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 07:13:47 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 07:17:10 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 07:22:49 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.185.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:26:49 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-219.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:31 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.57] has joined #lisp 07:29:30 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 07:31:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:37:25 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 07:38:11 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 07:38:36 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 07:39:16 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:39:27 hello 07:40:46 if in exceptional situations "the value of the last form in that clause is returned" for handler-case, why does (handler-case (date:parse-time "hello") (condition () "hello")) return nil ? 07:49:21 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 07:51:19 oh, ignore me, too early in the morning 07:52:20 dtw [~dtw@62.237.32.162] has joined #lisp 07:54:32 -!- Vivitron` [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit 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-!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:02:04 osa1 [~sinan@88.244.235.43] has joined #lisp 09:03:17 btbngr [~btbngr@188.28.97.44.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:03:29 after trying to create and use non-blocking sockets in iolib, I've decided to use usockets and bordeaux-threads. do I have problems if I try to write a socket, and in the middle of this operation try to read from the same socket from another thread? 09:03:38 CrazyWoods [~crazywood@222.76.234.165] has joined #lisp 09:04:03 yes 09:04:38 fe[nl]ix: so what's the proper way to write to/read from a socket from different threads? locks? 09:05:09 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:14 if you wish 09:05:25 fe[nl]ix: do you know any other ways? 09:06:03 what is it that you're trying to accomplish ? 09:06:27 also, from my REPL, this code doesn't print anything, is it right? (bordeaux-threads:make-thread (lambda () (loop (format t "ok")))) 09:06:47 marsell [~marsell@120.18.198.55] has joined #lisp 09:07:02 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-178-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:13 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:07:42 fe[nl]ix: I'm trying to write a IRC bot, right now bot can listen to the server and send answers(from one thread, it's stopping listening while sending) but I want to send custom commands while bot is doing its job 09:08:21 osa1 your bot should do it jobs into separated thread 09:08:28 osa1: use a queue 09:08:37 a message queue 09:09:20 fe[nl]ix: but bot still needs to listen a full line before looking to message queue to send my messages because its listen operation is blocking 09:09:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-165.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:10:06 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 09:10:14 osa1: not necessarily 09:10:55 fe[nl]ix: how? 09:11:16 you can poll the socket and a pipe used to signal that there's a new message in the queue 09:12:09 fe[nl]ix: I'm new at sockets, do you have an example code? iolib's documentation sucks 09:12:29 (also, can anyone answer my other question: from my REPL, this code doesn't print anything, is it right? (bordeaux-threads:make-thread (lambda () (loop (format t "ok")))) 09:13:14 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@227.Red-79-151-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:14:15 it is not right 09:14:35 osa1: iolib's (scarce) documentation assumes that one is already knowledgeable in unix programming 09:14:52 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 09:14:58 there are tutorials all over the internet about it 09:15:41 Code from some thread prints its data to *standard-output* as usual 09:17:27 knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:37 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:22 echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has joined #lisp 09:19:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:20:00 BlackPlague [~gosuckade@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:20:33 osa1: try adding (setf swank:*globally-redirect-io* t) to ~/.swank.lisp 09:20:38 then restart slime 09:21:03 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 09:22:26 -!- mmmmd [~tasty@adsl-76-254-6-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:22:43 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-edwqoxdmlfybtxuh] has joined #lisp 09:25:50 -!- Siphonblast [~anon@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:49 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:27:27 ivan-kanis: are you the author of swank-js? 09:27:56 ok, not. Sorry. 09:30:19 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:34:56 Siphonblast [~anon@c-98-210-95-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:10 osa1: you'll probably see the output in *inferior-lisp*, not in the repl window 09:36:35 the binding for standard-output in the repl does not apply to the separate thread where your lambda is running 09:37:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:42:38 xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:12 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-thsihzeycuyfputf] has joined #lisp 09:45:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.129.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:48:14 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.198.55] has quit [Quit: marsell] 09:48:37 mmmmd [~tasty@adsl-99-133-163-126.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:00 -!- Guest32177 [~wh@112.91.81.82] has quit [Quit: ] 09:49:04 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:50:02 marsell [~marsell@120.18.184.69] has joined #lisp 09:51:20 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:53:12 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 09:53:20 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:57:17 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:02:11 -!- BlackPlague [~gosuckade@shop3.diku.dk] has left #lisp 10:03:50 osa1: print, prin1, princ, format, write: they DO NOT DO ANY I/O!!!! 10:04:06 Don't they teach anything anymore in schools? 10:04:22 osa1: the only functions that do I/O are: FORCE-OUTPUT and FINISH-OUTPUT! 10:04:28 All the other functions only fill buffers. 10:04:43 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 10:04:53 pjb, the seven orign operator define the language's compiler 10:05:16 CrazyWoods: this is meaningless. Stop. 10:05:21 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:22 pjb, what is meaningful for a lisp newer? 10:06:53 pjb: please stop the nonsense 10:07:25 pjb, you are full experience of lisp, so you may think it's meaningless, but for me it's important to know the roots of lisp 10:08:33 CrazyWoods: have you read AIM-8? 10:08:37 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:08:38 You said you will read it. 10:08:59 pjb, yes 10:09:07 There are the roots of lisp. 10:09:28 pjb, but it's still hard for me to understand 10:10:24 pjb, the eval can be implement by just using the 7 basic operators, so the point is implement the eval of 7 basic operators? 10:11:00 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.244.235.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:11:06 CrazyWoods: Here is a sketch of a lisp implemented in lambda calculus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126856 ; we start from lambda and build progressively more sophisticated layers until we reach Common Lisp. (it's very incomplete, but hopefully, you'll see that only lambda is used and needed to implement anything). 10:11:13 pjb, there should be the meta implement 10:11:40 CrazyWoods: Read the log of yesterday. There's no point repeating it today. 10:11:41 osa1 [~sinan@88.244.235.43] has joined #lisp 10:14:08 -!- xan__ [~xan@80.174.78.249.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:14:50 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:16:20 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.145.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:16:26 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:17:47 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 10:19:44 rme [~rme@50.43.137.115] has joined #lisp 10:20:00 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 10:21:10 -!- gko [~gko@27.240.109.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:21:35 gko [~gko@27.52.209.187] has joined #lisp 10:23:28 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:25 -!- benny [~benny@i577A216F.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:30:37 -!- dtw [~dtw@62.237.32.162] has quit [Quit: +++ATH0] 10:31:45 nha 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[~john@135.236.16.62.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:56:58 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:58:43 kaffekopp [~user@ip-85-197-171-11.c4stads.bikab.com] has joined #lisp 10:58:49 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 11:00:50 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:16 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:03:34 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:08:11 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-219.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 11:10:17 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-219.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:11:24 Blkt [~user@82.84.136.73] has joined #lisp 11:11:49 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:12:39 good day everyone 11:14:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.193.4] has joined #lisp 11:15:52 sacho [~sacho@95-42-91-219.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 11:16:53 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-103-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:14 hi fe[nl]ix 11:20:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-150-191.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:21:26 -!- kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:33 kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 11:23:15 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:26:37 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:28:46 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:33:10 z` [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has joined #lisp 11:33:56 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-240-174.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:19 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:10 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:37 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:39:57 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:43:54 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 11:47:21 Dodek_ [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 11:52:17 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:53:28 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 11:53:39 -!- Dodek_ is now known as Dodek 11:53:52 -!- kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:57:49 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:01:49 jt123 [~jayan@cpc4-lutn3-0-0-cust768.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 12:04:29 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:05:51 -!- kaffekopp [~user@ip-85-197-171-11.c4stads.bikab.com] has left #lisp 12:06:13  12:06:22 sorry 12:08:18 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.12] has joined #lisp 12:08:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:11:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.193.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:12:51 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:15 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:17 dtw [~dtw@62.237.32.162] has joined #lisp 12:14:28 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 12:20:18 pkhuong: incf, surely? 12:25:26 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:20 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:33:38 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:23 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 12:37:10 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-46-62.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 12:37:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-dpytkxcbfuqsswow] has left #lisp 12:39:25 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:39:35 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 12:42:40 rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 12:44:19 Hi, might be a well-known error/wrong usage but when loading a .fasl with sbcl via "--script" I get an "illegal sharp macro" error/condition. Any suggestions? 12:44:30 [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has joined #lisp 12:46:08 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AF43.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:12 rosario: find what sharp macro is illegal. 12:50:05 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.123.140] has joined #lisp 12:51:19 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 12:53:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:54:08 is this a bug in sbcl? loadings the source via "sbcl --script foo.lisp" works, using (load "foo.fasl") works but "sbcl --script foo.fasl" doesn't. 12:54:52 nha_ [~prefect@p3E9E2F1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:53 arnsholt [~arne@54.80-203-170.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:55 -!- nha [~prefect@p3E9E2F1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:56:56 rosario: --script is not meant to be used with fasl files. 12:57:30 H4ns: thanks for that information 12:57:50 rosario: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/#Command-Line-Options 12:58:05 though .fasl files have "#!/opt/bin/sbcl --script" as their first line... 12:58:55 rosario: interesting. i may be misreading the manual, too 13:01:58 -!- echo-area [~user@182.92.247.2] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:07:34 -!- jt123 [~jayan@cpc4-lutn3-0-0-cust768.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: jt123] 13:10:35 kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 13:14:23 madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 13:18:58 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:19:25 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:19:36 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-46-62.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:20:04 I'm looking for a CL implementation of L-BFGS (a numerical optimisation algorithm), does anyone know of any good options? 13:20:59 arnsholt: write one! hacks and glory await! 13:21:34 and lemonodor fame 13:21:52 Yeah, that's the fallback option 13:23:02 It's just that optimisation is way, way out of my expertise as a computational linguist, and my code is likely to be subtly wrong in all kinds of fun ways I suspect, once floating point shenanigans enter the picture 13:23:11 *cmm* didn't know about cdb. neat stuff! 13:23:42 lemonodor fame is old news 13:23:51 There seems to be something in Maxima (converted from Fortran), but I'm not sure how much stuff I'd need to steal^Wborrow to use it in my code 13:25:15 Xach: that's why it's fun :) 13:25:17 lemonodor fame might not be that famous anymore, actually 13:25:49 I think that's why it's one of slime's startup messages 13:26:11 no, it was added when lemonodor was quite active 13:26:16 and just never removed 13:26:17 ah, heh ok 13:26:21 maybe why it's still there, then 13:26:35 retro hip 13:26:42 -!- mmmmd [~tasty@adsl-99-133-163-126.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:27:07 *dlowe* was hacking lisp when lemonodor was cool 13:27:43 people will soon talk about updating lemonodor.com like they talk about a new version of the CL standard! 13:28:01 csdserver [~csdserver@76.177.111.55] has joined #lisp 13:28:51 is montezuma an abandoned project ? 13:28:58 dlowe: when was that ? 13:29:12 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 13:29:59 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@76.177.111.55] has quit [Changing host] 13:29:59 csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has joined #lisp 13:31:01 -!- rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:31:24 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 13:32:46 sylecn [~sylecn@207.7.149.43] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 fe[nl]ix: 2002 13:33:13 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:34:26 arnsholt: you can use maxima in embedded mode, if it contains functionality that you want. 13:34:42 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.91] has joined #lisp 13:35:05 asvil: That does sound promising. Is it possible to pull in only select parts of the whole shebang as well? 13:35:06 Or you can try to find translated packages in f2cl/packages repository 13:35:24 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21A6D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:36:16 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.26.116] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:36:34 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.59.172] has joined #lisp 13:36:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:38:14 No, now, it is impossible to pull in only selected parts. 13:38:36 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@207.7.149.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:39:38 Right. Thanks for your help 13:40:09 I'll check out the f2cl/packages thing at least 13:41:46 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.123.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:43:36 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:45:46 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:33 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 13:47:18 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 13:47:21 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:47:54 teggi [~teggi@113.172.55.251] has joined #lisp 13:49:48 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 13:49:51 kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:56 Hello 13:50:29 hi 13:51:49 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:54:27 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:55:17 add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-46-62.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:55:46 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 13:59:20 jt123 [~jayan@cpc4-lutn3-0-0-cust768.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:01:58 mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 14:02:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 14:02:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:04:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:05:19 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:03 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:13:48 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-103-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:00 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-103-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:25 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:18:05 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@m90-141-46-62.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Quit: add^_] 14:18:37 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.184.69] has quit [Quit: marsell] 14:19:43 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:21:14 -!- btbngr [~btbngr@188.28.97.44.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:23:18 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.212.106] has joined #lisp 14:24:24 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:28:53 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:28:57 Greetings lispers 14:29:35 btbngr [~btbngr@188.28.97.44.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:31:20 -!- dtw [~dtw@62.237.32.162] has quit [Quit: +++ATH0] 14:33:17 Hi ThomasH 14:36:13 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-edwqoxdmlfybtxuh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:38:00 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:39:16 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.244.235.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:44:05 Thank Jobs for version control. I removed some apparently "useless" code from a library last June that turns out to have been needed for a project that I haven't touched for over a 1 1/2 years. 14:44:20 Having to revisit that project this morning. 14:48:08 Happy perihelion! 14:49:12 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.91] has left #lisp 14:49:17 That explains why things felt like they were going faster this morning. 14:49:38 Yep. 14:50:25 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.212.106] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 14:50:57 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 14:51:14 *ThomasH* puts on his seat belt. 14:51:48 And nights are short, because you're traveling faster during the nights than during the day. 14:52:35 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:53:01 Ah, so that explains why I don't feel like I had enough sleep. It all makes sense, now. 14:53:37 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:56:13 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 14:56:47 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:58:43 hi 14:58:54 H4ns, do you know if it is possible to send a precondition-failed status line without header ? 14:59:27 ThomasH: are you near the speed of light? 15:03:16 kiuma: if only there was a document that specified whether it was possible 15:03:18 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 15:03:46 Posterdati: No, I keep getting slowed down by the Luminous Ether. ;-) 15:04:13 ThomasH: nonsense! Ether does not exist :) lol 15:04:48 Xach, yea rfc2616 requires reading every comma with a lot of attention. 15:05:11 Anyway I think it's possible 15:05:18 felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:11:59 meta-coder [~meta@117.195.85.108] has joined #lisp 15:11:59 -!- meta-coder [~meta@117.195.85.108] has quit [Changing host] 15:11:59 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 15:12:25 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 15:13:57 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:16:59 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:20:17 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:57 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-114-40.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:23:23 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:51 TDT [~user@bouncer.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:25:00 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:04 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has left #lisp 15:27:12 hi! 15:27:56 If I use a (case expression I can't use symbols set to some value for the keys 15:27:59 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 15:28:32 is there a way to work with the value of symbols in a case-like structure without getting back to (cond (= ? 15:28:53 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:11 ddp [~ddp@93.182.131.138] has joined #lisp 15:29:57 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:30:28 christoph_debian: #. possibly. nothing else built-in is very like case. 15:30:45 ok :-/ 15:31:37 christoph_debian: what prompted the question? 15:31:58 christoph_debian: alexandria:switch may be useful. 15:32:04 trying to switch over some groveled C constants 15:33:47 osa1 [~sinan@88.244.235.43] has joined #lisp 15:34:09 serving http content range is a bit hard-working :/ 15:34:13 -!- TDT [~user@bouncer.eng.uiowa.edu] has left #lisp 15:36:09 It will be 'laughable' when I'll add websocket, spdy, and fast-cgi 15:36:30 well spdy it the last of the list () 15:36:40 *is 15:39:47 -!- kilon [~user@178.59.17.196] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:40:19 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 15:40:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.59.172] has quit [Changing host] 15:40:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:40:56 guther [guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-fhtxmrwvrwfstpjk] has joined #lisp 15:43:40 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:45:35 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:48:52 ryepup [~user@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 15:50:47 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:52:22 benny [~benny@i577A77C7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:53:18 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 10.0/20111228055358]] 15:53:43 woodz [~danny@host109-150-39-20.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:30 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:55 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:03:36 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:03 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:04:11 rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 16:11:10 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:11:40 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:35 urandom__ [~user@p548A462A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:45 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:15:37 -!- woodz [~danny@host109-150-39-20.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Bye all] 16:15:48 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:16:09 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:56 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:19:47 madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:51 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128136224.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 16:20:24 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:22:09 something wrong with either SBCL or bordeaux-threads: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126861 16:22:59 osa1: What suggests that to you? 16:24:20 Shawnlo [~Shawnlo@199.216.81.20] has joined #lisp 16:24:29 -!- Shawnlo [~Shawnlo@199.216.81.20] has left #lisp 16:24:42 Xach: do you think this behavior is right? so why isn't it runing (read-line) expression? 16:26:06 osa1: Why do you think it is not? 16:26:11 osa1: It may be running it, *STANDARD-OUTPUT* may not be what you think it is. 16:26:22 Xach: because it's not getting my input 16:26:28 osa1: How do you know? 16:26:49 Xach: I've just tried and found myself in SBCL debugger 16:26:58 osa1: Why didn't you paste that? 16:27:24 Never mind for my sake, anyway. Perhaps someone else is interested in helping. 16:27:40 osa1: In the future, it might be useful to give meaningful information in pastes. 16:27:42 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:28:56 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126862 16:29:00 it works, sometimes 16:29:23 osa1: What did you expect to happen? 16:29:34 why do you use the stream from two threads? 16:30:52 Xach: it worked for my first 2 input but didn't for third. what's wrong with third input? 16:30:56 MoALTz [~no@178.181.226.201.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 16:31:38 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:32:09 osa1: why do you use the same stream from two threads? 16:32:55 stassats`: I don't know what stream you're talking about. I'm new at common lisp 16:33:17 Blkt` [~Blkt@82.84.191.233] has joined #lisp 16:33:41 standard input stream, it's the same in any programming language 16:34:08 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.136.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:34:44 osa1: you seem to be new at thinking too... 16:35:13 rude. 16:35:29 #lispy 16:35:51 dlowe: sometimes when you shake a machine, it unlocks and starts working... 16:36:05 or stops working completely 16:36:12 pjb: people aren't machines 16:36:37 am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has joined #lisp 16:37:44 -!- phadthai [mmondor@206-248-143-74.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:37:50 phadthai [mmondor@206-248-143-74.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:38:12 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:19 dlowe: I've been complaining about that for some time. 16:42:57 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:08 Blkt`` [~Blkt@82.84.129.36] has joined #lisp 16:44:13 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:46:05 -!- Blkt` [~Blkt@82.84.191.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:48:06 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:58:01 -!- saltmiser [~chatzilla@70.15.225.198.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:01 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:18 The socratic method of teaching needs a socrates to do the teaching, unfortunately 16:58:21 saltmiser [~chatzilla@70.15.225.198.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:40 osa1: i think you may lack some knowledge about streams and special variables in lisp. that's likely what's tricking you (the streams that is). 17:01:06 osa1: i think this is what's happening: both the REPL and your lambda function try to read from the same stream, at the same time. sometimes the REPL get's some data, sometimes the lambda function gets some data. the REPL will try to evaluate what you say and the lambda function will try to print it. the worst of it is, they might both read some portion of the stream, but not a full line. so the error message may look od 17:01:44 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0E85.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:01:55 osa1: does it work when you do *not* place the loop in a separate thread? 17:02:53 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:07:22 osa1: also, people might answer in a nicer way if you don't start by assuming that something you don't expect necessarily corresponds to a bug in someone else's code 17:08:33 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.7] has joined #lisp 17:16:10 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:17:35 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:54 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 17:19:41 stassats`: low priority! for this i pay for platinum titanium support? 17:20:03 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 17:21:07 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 17:24:31 -!- Blkt`` is now known as Blkt 17:25:58 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-56.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:26:17 pnq [~nick@AC811A5B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:23 or was it titanium platinum 17:30:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:38:31 -!- jt123 [~jayan@cpc4-lutn3-0-0-cust768.9-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:05 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-thsihzeycuyfputf] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:38 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.55.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:44:44 osa1: oh yeah right, what mvilleneuve said really is true. lisp is awesome and huge, chances are that you simply missed something or haven't learned something yet. people don't like it when you blame them for stuff they didn't do wrong :) 17:45:26 madnificent: are you okay? 17:45:42 wanderingelf [~yaaic@c-71-60-175-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:46 dlowe: no, i find it sad that osa1 doesn't respond when people are trying to help! 17:45:49 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128136224.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:13 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.62] has joined #lisp 17:46:40 -!- wanderingelf [~yaaic@c-71-60-175-195.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:56 dlowe: so i assume he thinks we're just being assholes 17:48:03 mburke [~max@S0106000c41f2f3de.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:57 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 17:49:36 *austinh* is conflicted about version numbers in asd files vs. version numbers for software releases 17:49:50 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:49:58 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:50:00 is there an idiomatic way to generate more elements within a map-type operation than the input? such as producing a vector of 2n output elements for n input elements? 17:50:08 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:12 mburke: I would probably resort to LOOP. 17:51:18 mburke: for lists, there's mapcan 17:51:21 mburke: if you were using lists you could mapcan and return ... 17:51:24 and mappend 17:51:25 what dlowe said. 17:51:40 Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 17:52:06 con someone tell me what :prior and :next keys are in mcclim/beirc context ? 17:52:23 for vectors, you use a vector with a fill pointer, loop, and vector-push 17:52:30 gigamonkey: that was my thought to 17:52:30 thanks! 17:52:36 dlowe: there is no mappend 17:52:45 can* 17:52:59 Guthur: (defun defun defun) is now! 17:53:02 gigamonkey: oh you didn't say what I thought you said 17:53:09 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:39 madnificent: you were right, the problem was I was trying to get input from same stream in my thread but REPL was also trying to get the input from same stream. thanks. now I got it working(btw, I was afk for dinner, and realized that wile eating) 17:53:56 osa1: good job 17:55:47 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.185.237] has joined #lisp 17:57:41 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:58:19 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:15 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:02:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.193.4] has joined #lisp 18:02:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:30 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.7] has joined #lisp 18:06:04 that works, thanks! 18:06:24 (loop + vector-push) 18:06:25 Gaaahahahahahaha SBCL and your @#$!@#$ warnings about packages, you're driving me up the wall!!! 18:06:57 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 18:07:05 mmmmd [~tasty@adsl-99-133-163-126.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:02 I want to defpackage a package, in which I :use some other packages. Then having defined the package I want to re-export the symbols inhereted from the other packages. 18:08:30 OK! 18:08:40 Why do you want to do it after, rather than within defpackage? 18:08:43 When I try to do this in the obvious way SBCL can't recompile the file in which the defpackage appears because of an "also exports the following symbols" warning. 18:09:01 Xach: because I'm too lazy to type out all the names 18:09:14 You want to re-export all of 'em? 18:09:18 Yes. 18:09:35 I wrote a small program that, given a runtime package configuration, prints a defpackage form that would recreate it. 18:09:38 Maybe that would help? 18:10:01 *Xach* much prefers explicit defpackages 18:10:12 Yeah, in general I'm with you. 18:10:30 Easy enough, I suppose, to generate the defpackage. 18:10:32 With this program I can get that even from people who don't agree. 18:10:40 (defpackage foo (:use :cl) (:export . #.(loop for symbol being the external-symbols in 'cl collect symbol))) 18:12:09 are there any recommended methods of serializing/deserializing user-created data types to streams? 18:12:34 stassats`: right. I knew there was a way to do it at readtime. I temporarily spaced on how to do it. 18:13:04 mburke: i've used cl-store without much fuss 18:13:16 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0E85.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:43 ah okay, I saw that but the "last modified' date on cl-user was in 2006 so I'm not sure how up-to-date it was :) 18:13:52 But the thing that kills me is that SBCL is so picky about defpackages--if it's not going to let me muck with the package outside the defpackage (and recompile) then why doesn't it take the sane approach of compiling a defpackage always just works, leaving the package as defined in the defpackage. 18:14:17 Because I also am constantly stymied by this same warning when I try to change something in a package and recompile. 18:15:37 gigamonkey: what makes the "sane" approach sane? 18:17:20 Why is it always better to silently *not* obey defpackage's definition? How does that interact with user error like fasls that refer to stale package definitions? 18:19:36 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 18:20:05 Hmm. You'd rather have defpackage completely override the current package? That's a first for me. I don't think I'm comfortable with silently deleting data. 18:22:29 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:23:37 -!- kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:24:04 pkhuong: I'm pretty sure that's what Allegro does. 18:24:49 Anyway, if you follow the convention of not mucking with packages outside the defpackage it basically does what you want during development--if you want to change something you change the defpackage and recompile. 18:25:09 I'm sure there are edge cases where you can have symbols that used to be interned and are now not or whatever. 18:25:22 But back when I used Allegro I never ran into problems that I recall. 18:25:41 And I constantly am annoyed by SBCL refusing to compile my defpackages. 18:25:59 gigamonkey: this is SBCL. We warn on edge cases. Extending the standard might be useful, but you're not allowed to say so ;) 18:26:19 Well, I think the standard allows either behavior. 18:26:35 yes, it's undefined. Hence the warning (: 18:26:37 But yes, SBCL is a whiny piece of software--I'm well aware of that. 18:27:42 I'm happy with a warning (which I guess SLIME or ASDF or someone is turning into a compile-killing error) but wish there was a single restart that just said, "do what you need to make the package as defined here." 18:27:45 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@45-74-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:49 gigamonkey: why do you think sbcl is NOT my main CL implementation... 18:28:05 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.89.59] has joined #lisp 18:28:14 gigamonkey: +1. That warning has also annoyed me during development 18:28:24 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:28:32 bsod1 [~bsod1@88.244.235.43] has joined #lisp 18:29:15 I actually find myself quitting Lisp and restarting rather than muck around putting things into a state where I compile. Which makes me feel like I'm using Java or something. 18:29:16 -!- bsod1 [~bsod1@88.244.235.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:47 gigamonkey: delete-package and reload if that's what you want. 18:30:19 i don't edit my packages by hand, i use slime C-u C-c x to remove it from :export, and it does UNEXPORT too 18:30:30 and i don't have problems you're describing 18:30:34 gigamonkey: deleting packages works too. 18:30:56 the shorcut stassats` mentioned has saved me a lot of grief 18:31:44 I wish lisp packages worked more like C++ namespaces. :) 18:31:47 So what happens to other packages that use :foo when you delete :foo? 18:32:01 My assumpution is that they're borked but maybe that's too pessimistic. 18:33:33 Anyway, saying just delete the package first feels like saying, "Oh, you need to fmakunbound foo before you recompile (defun foo ...) 18:33:49 bsod1 [~bsod1@88.244.235.43] has joined #lisp 18:34:50 gigamonkey: other people call EXPORT directly, and your way doesn't play nice with them. 18:36:03 Yeah, well that's why I found it so odd the SBCL also hates that style--if you EXPORT outside the defpackage and then something happens to cause the defpackage to get recompiled it also complains. 18:37:20 gigamonkey: Equal opportunity warning: there's no obviously right thing to do. 18:37:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:38:04 ddp_ [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 18:38:04 Seems like there are two sane positions: 1) evaluating a defpackage wipes any previous definition and installs the new one. 2) evaluating a defpackage is just sugar for doing a bunch of package manipulations which will leave the package in an end state that depends on what it state was going in. 18:38:12 foom: you can implement C++ namespaces in CL. 18:38:24 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 18:38:36 SBCL seems to be taking choice 2 except that it complains whenever the resulting state would be different than the starting state. 18:38:58 Which I find less than helpful. 18:39:01 what if it just made a style-warning? 18:39:16 Maybe someone could help me reconceptualize what SBCL's point of view is. 18:39:42 pjb: can I? 18:39:47 stassats`: anything that doesn't kill my compile is fine by me. 18:40:13 Though I think in the grand scheme of things I sort of prefer choice 1 to choice 2. 18:40:31 gigamonkey: it's 2, and warns when 2 and 1 disagree. Warn on unportable behaviour, etc. 18:41:18 -!- ddp [~ddp@93.182.131.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:41:25 -!- ddp_ is now known as ddp 18:41:34 -!- bsod1 [~bsod1@88.244.235.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:42 pkhuong: actually I'm not sure calling EXPORT directly has any problem with #1--you can't EXPORT from a package that doesn't exist yet so presumably you've arranged to have the code that calls EXPORT evaluated after the DEFPACKAGE. 18:42:03 gigamonkey: that assumes an asdf-style workstylw. 18:42:37 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:42:59 Why? 18:43:24 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 18:43:28 gigamonkey: all the exports must be re-executed. 18:43:38 clearly the answer is to have both defpackage and defpackageparameter. 18:44:05 DEFPACKAGE-IF-NOT-EXISTS ? ;) 18:44:29 agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-238-84.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:44:30 gigamonkey: on one hand, you're trying to better support iterative development, but, on the other, assume a batch recompile-and-load. 18:45:03 pkhuong: well, I can't iteratively C-c C-c a defpackage in SBCL unless it's going to have no effect. 18:45:06 p_l|home: You're right. It should be defpackage and defnamespace. Things that sound like they're kinda synonyms but not quite, yet give no hint as to the difference in behavior. :) 18:45:09 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:09 So that's not supporting great iterative development. 18:45:11 gigamonkey: you can add exports. 18:45:43 okay, true. 18:45:50 or, defpackage interactively. It's asdf that doesn't like warnings. 18:45:53 i don't see how the full warning is more helpful than a style-warning 18:46:12 stassats`: I'm with you there. 18:46:14 stassats`: old policy wrt unportable behaviour. 18:47:06 you can do (setf asdf:*compile-file-failure-behaviour* :warn) 18:48:13 stassats`: what does that do to true failures? 18:48:13 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.244.235.43] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 18:48:27 osa1 [~sinan@88.244.235.43] has joined #lisp 18:48:31 Yeah, it's also pretty stupid that by default "warning" == "error". 18:48:56 gigamonkey: what's a true failure? 18:49:29 gigamonkey: you can also add imports if there's no conflict. 18:49:30 Mismatched paren. I guess if it can't create a fasl it's still an error. 18:49:47 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:45 yes, if it can't create the fasl it will err 18:51:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-47-49.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:52:27 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:10 dtw [~dtw@62.237.32.162] has joined #lisp 18:55:39 agspathi` [~user@ppp-94-64-238-84.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:57:06 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-178-153.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:19 -!- agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-238-84.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:58:42 dabd [~dabd@bl13-131-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:00:05 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:00:21 http://mally.stanford.edu/Papers/computation.pdf is it Lisp related? 19:00:31 have you read it? 19:01:45 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 19:02:33 lalagirl [~lalagirl@unaffiliated/lalagirl] has joined #lisp 19:04:28 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 19:04:46 -!- zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:26 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.248.208] has joined #lisp 19:05:56 stassats`: no 19:06:12 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:51 Posterdati: It looks to be implemented in Python. 19:07:28 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:08:00 -!- lalagirl [~lalagirl@unaffiliated/lalagirl] has left #lisp 19:10:17 Posterdati: Actually, that's just the GUI, looks like the actual program is in C 19:10:38 -!- z` is now known as zmv 19:10:39 madnificent [~madnifice@static.146.73.9.176.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:43 Posterdati: ask google for a summary. We're not your NI slaves! 19:11:21 ThomasH: := 19:11:23 ThomasH: :=) 19:11:49 pjb: I don't need a summary only your comments on it 19:13:00 Google Comments is planned for next year. 19:13:14 Posterdati: I find it pretty irritating that you would ask such a thing. 19:14:10 Posterdati: Indeed. 19:14:11 Xach: and? 19:14:24 Posterdati: read the article yourself and make up your own mind. 19:14:41 pjb: oh I read it 19:14:46 That said, it's typically the kind of stuff (old) lispers like to ponder. 19:15:01 Posterdati: you could easily implement in lisp code relevant to that article. 19:15:40 pjb: I don't want to do such a thing 19:16:10 You should want it. I don't say you'll have time to do it, but as a lisper, you'd want it :-) 19:16:20 -!- dabd [~dabd@bl13-131-240.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:16:26 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:17:07 -!- CrazyWoods [~crazywood@222.76.234.165] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:17:57 all I want is a she-lisper 19:18:08 Good luck! 19:18:54 thanks 19:21:32 pjb: what will the befana give to you? 19:22:54 Posterdati: Go away. 19:23:25 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:29:12 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 19:35:03 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:36:24 SBCL 1.0.54, slime CVS (latest version), getting *inferior-lisp* only... Any suggestions? 19:36:40 put (slime-setup '(slime-fancy)) in your .emacs 19:36:52 It's there. 19:37:02 (never change a running system, btw.) 19:37:08 Xach: I like the practice of using multiple :export forms in DEFPACKAGE, learned that from the QL code. Where did you get that habit? 19:37:21 either it isn't or *inferior-lisp* shows you an error 19:37:37 -!- pnq [~nick@AC811A5B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:37:44 stassats`: there's no error message 19:38:10 rosario: does it say "connected"? 19:38:10 pnq [~nick@AC819369.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:15 after you connect 19:38:39 stassats`: yes, it does. 19:39:01 do you have (require 'slime-autoloads) in your .emacs? 19:39:05 ThomasH: hmm, dunno. i think i just noticed it from the pseudo bnf in the spec. 19:39:09 -!- am0c [~am0c@124.49.51.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:39:11 stassats`: yes? 19:39:24 "yes?" as in "yes"? 19:39:38 if so, then remove it, restart emacs and try again 19:39:44 yes as in "yes, is it a problem?" 19:40:53 it is a problem if you also have (require 'slime), but autoloads wouldn't save you much time if you always use slime, so it's better just not to load them 19:41:36 stassats`: I don't always use it, that's why I used to use autoloads only... 19:42:14 ddp [~ddp@anon-132-169.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:20 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 19:42:25 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 19:42:55 rosario: so, do you have both (require 'slime) and (require 'slime-autoloads)? 19:43:50 No, I don't. At least not in my .emacs file. It worked so far... 19:44:25 maybe slime-autloads stopped working, because nobody uses them, let me check 19:44:42 Xach: Ok. I have a couple libraries in particular where it highlights some grouping of symbols and makes managing the code easier. 19:45:08 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:45:43 It's annoying to wait 3 seconds for my editor to start... Especially when all the vi fundamentalists tease you every day... 19:46:13 rosario: works fine here 19:46:40 rosario: M-x uptime => 11 days, 1 hour, 58 minutes, 22 seconds 19:46:47 doesn't annoy me 19:47:10 Last time I watched the emacs-uptime it was 488 days... 19:47:33 Sorry, 448 days. 19:47:39 you're crazy ;) 19:48:06 Odd thing is... now autoloads works as well here. 19:48:13 pjb: Do you restart your lisp image? I have trouble with stray symbols in long-lived lisp images that I use for development. 19:48:24 rosario: you simply don't quit your emacs every time you're finished with a file :p 19:48:35 And what's more, it's on a system that I upgraded from etch to squeeze! 19:48:47 ThomasH: very rarely. 19:48:57 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-132-169.relakks.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:49:14 ddp [~ddp@anon-132-169.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:32 pjb: Are you fastidious with symbol management or is it just not something you think about? 19:49:35 I admire you, didn't find a convenient way for me. 19:49:37 +yet 19:49:46 why do you need to exit emacs each time? 19:49:47 ThomasH: mostly I don't think about it. 19:50:02 ThomasH: but with a wise usage of packages, you can avoid most problems. 19:50:08 do you run it on a toaster with 16 Mb of memory? 19:50:19 ThomasH: I have a (mkupack) function that creates new user packages... 19:50:20 saint_cypher [~rjspotter@208.178.63.106] has joined #lisp 19:50:26 hmmm... It's not exactly on topic, but I'd like to think people here might have answers - do any of you have any good (online) sources about writing virtual machines (mainly bytecoded)? 19:50:39 Not the design of VM instructions and such, but actual implementation. 19:50:46 p_l|home: emacs sources, clisp sources. 19:51:15 Writing a VM is rather trivial. All the smarts go to the instruction set design! 19:51:41 I used to shutdown my system from time to time, that's why I have to quit emacs from time to time. But yes, I could leave it open for one session. 19:52:04 pjb: well, I played around with designs, but I wanted to see something from the other side. Also, figuring some things not related to ISA itself 19:52:05 pjb: Ok. The best example of my problem is say I factor out a function but forget to undefine it and track down all of the calls. The next time I start my image and load the library, I have to correct it. 19:53:06 pjb: So, I'll often load everything up in a fresh image before commiting to version control. 19:53:09 ThomasH: yes, you have to remember renaming all occurences when you change it. 19:53:37 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:53:38 On the other hand using asdf to compile and load your systems from time to time while developing help finding those errors. 19:53:39 you can also start from a fresh image without restarting emacs 19:53:59 mope [~mope@host86-148-71-158.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:12 rosario: I just wrap my interpreter executable with rlwrap and use it in a terminal =) 19:54:18 personally there are times when I have to restart emacs when it locks in some endless loop or becomes extremely slow and clearing the buffers doesn't help, oddly enough 19:54:26 pjb: It's also a matter of learning to actually use the tools in lisp like listing all functions calls, etc. 19:54:38 pjb: I guess I'll have to go through CLISP's sources, then, though I suspect some aspects of what I want to do in the VM would make it not really similar... 19:56:09 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:58:40 p_l|home: you basically have to choice: use a table of functions, or use a big case or switch. 19:58:45 s/to/two/ 19:58:56 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:59:51 rosario: you can also try http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/DumpingEmacs 20:00:52 pjb: yeah, I know some of the basic structures, but I've been considering mixing of bytecode with native code (partially for FFI support) 20:01:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.248.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:01:39 Ehh, I guess I'll figure a lot of it from doing it ^^: 20:11:09 Is there a built in way to "destructure" a structure? I don't recall. 20:11:18 with-accessors 20:12:51 pjb, oh yes, thanks 20:13:08 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:19:33 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-56.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:21:51 waveman [~tim@124-168-80-70.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:24:54 -!- dtw [~dtw@62.237.32.162] has quit [Quit: +++ATH0] 20:27:38 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:21 What does it mean if I see "empty tree" printed to the repl? I can't find that string anywhere in the sbcl src (or my own for that matter) 20:28:46 derrida: search in libraries. 20:28:57 *derrida* turns on brain 20:29:20 Always a good decision. 20:29:24 :) 20:30:58 j0ni [~j0ni@75-119-251-189.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:25 ah, ha! "trees" package seems to have been the source 20:32:52 Does anybody have an example of how to open a memory mapped file with sb-simple-streams? 20:34:06 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:35:01 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:39:53 why do you need sb-simple-streams? 20:40:38 -!- dRbiG [drbig@insomniac.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:22 -!- agspathi` [~user@ppp-94-64-238-84.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:42:16 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-153.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:17 -!- nha_ [~prefect@p3E9E2F1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:45:02 nha_ [~prefect@p3E9E2F1C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:15 stassats: is there another way of opening a file with mmap on sbcl + linux? 20:45:39 there's only one, a foreign call to MMAP 20:46:12 sb-posix already has things you need to do that 20:46:25 stassats: what does the :mapped argument to sb-simple-streams do? 20:46:33 i have no idea 20:46:41 try reading documentation or something 20:47:38 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 20:47:59 stassats: thank you. 20:50:08 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:51:00 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:51:37 dRbiG [drbig@insomniac.pl] has joined #lisp 20:52:36 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 21:02:30 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:02:58 snearch [~snearch@e178123159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:03:49 -!- mmmmd [~tasty@adsl-99-133-163-126.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:06:08 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:06:32 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:07:19 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:26 -!- snearch [~snearch@e178123159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:09:37 snearch [~snearch@e178123159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:45 -!- snearch [~snearch@e178123159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:02 snearch [~snearch@e178123159.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:16:53 pnq1 [~nick@ACA216CF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:24 I'm using cffi-grovel to define a type for size_t 21:17:25 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:17:26 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819369.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:17:46 but it complains about having define a type named :size-t 21:18:01 it's just a warning but is there a nice way to remove it 21:18:12 (modify (1+ package-complaints)) 21:18:25 Guthur: are you sure size_t isn't already defined? 21:18:49 pkhuong: don't see it in the documented built-in types 21:18:49 Hexstream: I couldn't figure out what you were getting at with your IKEYWORDS idea. Do you have an example of how two authors might use it? 21:18:54 I'll grep the source 21:19:02 Hexstream: hopefully in prose that i can read later? 21:19:24 Xach: I'll write up a little something in a lisppaste. 21:19:25 -!- rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:34 rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 21:20:48 pkhuong: it appears not 21:20:49 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:15 Lisppaste has become something of a lisp tribal knowledge wiki. It would probably be a good idea to go through it and collect useful pastes. 21:21:18 it's always bothered me that I didn't have it, just figured out how to use cffi-grovel 21:21:57 but I'd rather not have the warning 21:22:57 Guthur: what does the warning actually say? 21:23:34 ; Defining a foreign type named :SIZE-T. This symbol belongs to the KEYWORD package and that may interfere with other code using CFFI. 21:23:53 so don't make it a keyword 21:24:14 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.244.235.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:17 umm, I suppose, only going to use it internally 21:24:44 Guthur: even if you weren't, that's what exported symbols are for. 21:24:47 so the lack of consistence with cffi type identifiers wont matter much 21:26:43 only CFFI is supposed to use the keyword 21:27:07 -!- dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:28 dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 21:28:15 -!- dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:27 http://i.imgur.com/W9cFE.png 21:28:35 dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:28:35 please guys, contain your laughter 21:28:50 package 21:28:59 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 21:29:33 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 21:30:24 is that an ascii art pic of george washington? 21:30:37 close enough 21:30:39 yeah 21:31:08 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:28 dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 21:33:48 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:11 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:34:37 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-187.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:35:10 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-56.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 21:35:11 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-56.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:35:26 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-56.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 21:36:41 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-178-153.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:36:46 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:51 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-178-153.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:41:27 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:46 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:00 -!- MoALTz [~no@178.181.226.201.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:49:29 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:51:46 marsell [~marsell@120.18.191.255] has joined #lisp 21:52:13 -!- dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:25 dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 21:52:38 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:52:57 -!- dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:53:35 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 21:53:36 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-132-169.relakks.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:01 ddp [~ddp@anon-132-169.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:33 -!- pnq1 is now known as pnq 21:57:25 dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 21:57:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:59:22 Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-94.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 21:59:37 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-94.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:59:45 Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-94.dhcp4.washington.edu] has joined #lisp 22:06:15 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-56.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 22:07:35 -!- mope [~mope@host86-148-71-158.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:37 It's weird. sb-simple-streams:open always returns NIL when used with a mapped-file-simple-stream. 22:11:38 22:12:12 Would someone on Linux be so kind to try (sb-simple-streams:open "/etc/hosts" :class 'sb-simple-streams::mapped-file-simple-stream) 22:12:13 ? 22:12:28 # 22:12:41 Hmm. 22:13:28 What version? 22:13:51 somwhere in the current HEAD 22:14:22 I'm on 1.0.53.38-9f96357 22:17:04 stassats: thank you. 22:17:16 what? does it work? 22:17:32 i have the same result for 1.0.42.10 22:18:44 I will retry after a clean build. 22:19:05 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 22:20:46 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:21:04 i don't think it will help 22:22:24 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:04 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:26:00 Qworkescence: that's not emacs 22:27:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:27:36 stassats: you're right. The problem was that I didn't qualify the stream class with the package. 22:27:56 (sb-simple-streams:open "/etc/hosts" :class 'mapped-file-simple-stream) 22:28:52 and it doesn't signal an error? 22:29:03 which silently gets ignored, because the cond which handles the different class types in open doesn't have a default clause 22:29:57 Shall I report that as a 'bug' and attach a patch? 22:30:08 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 22:30:37 you can at least ask "is this a bug?" 22:30:44 maybe it's for compatibility with allegro 22:31:29 sbcl-devel is the right place to ask? 22:31:35 yes 22:32:05 derrida: i can't reproduce your error 22:36:08 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:37 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:38:39 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:04 Xach, i doubt version control on Windows in emacs would work well 22:44:12 Xach, (maybe though, but I always have trouble) 22:46:06 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:09 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.185.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:46:41 Kron_ [~Kron@199.91.212.106] has joined #lisp 22:46:50 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:47:12 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:29 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:50:21 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 22:51:02 If I was to take a portion of lisp code from a project licensed under the Lisp Lesser GNU Public License what does that mean for the licensing arrange of my project? 22:51:49 -!- rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:52:06 -!- [SLB] [~balthasar@unaffiliated/slabua] has quit [Quit: [ Close the World, Open the nExt ]] 22:54:47 Guthur: URI to text of license, please. 22:55:07 google has it 22:55:15 Guthur: put it into separate file, preferably separate package too 22:55:16 cliki too 22:55:37 easye: http://opensource.franz.com/preamble.html 22:56:15 *easye* checks. 22:56:24 It's a single macro, I just can be bothered at the moment coding an equivalent 22:56:31 can/can't 22:56:48 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-1-99.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 22:56:54 what does it do? 22:57:20 wraps defcfun 22:57:27 Guthur: technically I think you are bound to redistribute your changes with the LLGPL for that macro. 22:57:30 *easye* iana. 22:57:46 to throw and error when it returns < 0 22:57:49 and/an 22:58:11 oh that's fine 22:58:12 sounds like a 2 minute macro :P 22:58:20 Guthur: you've already spend more time thinking about it than it would to write your own 22:58:25 guthur: you have the option to fork with a GPL version. 22:58:47 Which probably doesn't help. What do you want to license under? BSD? 22:59:16 easye: I hadn't really considered the licensing to be honest 22:59:33 Are you redistributing? If not, don't worry about it. 23:00:04 anyho, I only wanted it quickly because I was testing other parts of the lib and want errors raised appropriately with out have to explicitly check return values 23:00:21 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:00:38 Guthur: or you can just use iolib 23:00:47 -!- Blkt [~Blkt@82.84.129.36] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:00:53 easye: I do hope to distribute if I complete the binding 23:01:06 stassats: ?, what does iolib offer? 23:01:23 Guthur: "to throw and error when it returns < 0" 23:01:33 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126870 23:01:37 Guthur: I think you can just bundle the whole package LLGPL, and redistribute that with source. 23:02:04 (I didn't mean to reveal some of that stuff this early but oh well...) 23:02:12 Then your code can use it. I think. 23:02:19 *easye* is really IANAL. 23:02:23 in sbcl with quicklisp, the call (ql:quickload :split-sequence does not work with slime-compile-file. When calling (split-sequence:split-sequence ...), the error message is: The symbol "SPLIT-SEQUENCE" is not external in the SPLIT-SEQUENCE package. It works if everything is pasted to a sbcl prompt in a unix terminal. 23:03:07 zzach: where is the call to ql:quickload? 23:03:17 easye et al. cheers for the suggestions: 23:03:37 SurlyFrog [~Adium@c-24-118-228-15.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:42 Guthur: it also has things like retrying the call on EINTR 23:03:43 stassats: call is first statement of the lisp file 23:04:26 zzach: just like that? wrap it into (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ...) 23:04:26 stassats: I am dev'ing a similar lib 23:04:37 -!- felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:41 Guthur: similar to what? 23:04:47 a binding for the recent version of ZeroMQ 23:04:59 felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:08 networking things 23:05:14 Ok, well I have to go eat but I'll be back later and I'll definitely read the logs so don't hesitate to comment. 23:05:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-251.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 23:05:52 Hi all, I was wondering if Norvig's "Paradigms of Artificial Intelligence Programming: Case Studies in Common Lisp" stands alone? I've never had any real exposure to AI. 23:06:06 SurlyFrog: it's not about AI 23:06:20 it's about writing programs in Common Lisp 23:06:21 Guthur: there are already two bindings for zeromq 23:06:25 SurlyFrog: it can be read fine on its own if that is what you mean 23:06:36 aerique: that's what I mean. 23:06:37 stassats: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) (ql:quickload :split-sequence)) 23:06:38 leads to additional errormessage: 23:06:38 USE-PACKAGE # causes name-conflicts in 23:06:38 # between the following symbols: 23:06:38 SPLIT-SEQUENCE::LOOP, COMMON-LISP:LOOP 23:06:45 fe[nl]ix: I could only find one and one base of that 23:07:13 -!- knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:07:26 they both target version 2.x 23:07:30 zzach: did you define a package named split-sequence? 23:07:51 can you paste your file? 23:08:11 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:08:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.145.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:08:39 fe[nl]ix: I also had different ideas of how it should have been implemented 23:09:02 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has joined #lisp 23:09:13 can one write a ffi-less bindings to zeromq? 23:09:38 stassats: the wire protocol is somewhat documented 23:10:13 I know that there has been limited implementations in Javascript and on other language where the FFI is not available 23:10:30 stassats: after restart of emacs/slime, it works. A package was defined earlier, but was removed again. 23:10:34 But it would be quite some work to replicate the internals 23:10:51 That's not really what it's for. 23:11:01 -!- NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:16 NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:26 -!- NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:11:46 Guthur: I assume cl-zmq is what you found inadequate? :p 23:12:46 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-220-98.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:12:50 Odin-: I probably would not go so far to say inadequate, that's a little too derogatory, but it seems to have not got much love recently 23:13:13 Meaning last few month, presumably? 23:13:16 +s 23:13:17 maybe they're just perfect? 23:14:01 Odin-: yep, it's missing a number of things 23:14:15 Guthur: In terms of lispiness or in terms of ZMQ's API? 23:14:22 :p 23:14:48 Would seem the obvious route in case of the latter would be to extend cl-zmq... 23:15:05 Odin-: a little of both 23:15:16 Guthur: honestly, I've read its author's rationale for creating zeromq and most of it seems a bad idea to me 23:15:29 fe[nl]ix: Which rationale is that? 23:15:57 the docs on their site 23:16:09 There's more than one on the zeromq site, actually. 23:16:23 Because there seem to be at least two somewhat distinct motives at play here. 23:16:24 fe[nl]ix: I like it's highly 'pluggable' nature 23:16:46 it's very easy to implement parallel/distributed patterns with it 23:17:10 And the significant one, though possibly not initial, is the ability to implement a virtually language-neutral CSP pattern. 23:17:13 And alot more pleasant that using raw sockets 23:17:34 Odin-: that too 23:17:46 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:18:14 the entire library is poorly designed 23:18:17 I find it hard to see a downside in its ability to full fill what it sets out to do 23:18:47 fe[nl]ix: would you be willing to briefly elaborate? 23:18:50 who uses it? 23:19:20 Mongrel2 is the only thing I can think off the top of my head 23:19:26 it copies data once from the kernel into the socket's queue, then into the zmq_buffer_t and then to use the data you need a third copy into a regular char* 23:19:37 not sure if bringing up anything to do with Zed Shaw is a good idea though 23:20:08 why does a web-server need such a thing? 23:20:30 ZMQ isn't related to webservers, is it? 23:20:43 madnificent: nope 23:20:50 X-Scale [email@2001:5c0:1000:b::9eff] has joined #lisp 23:21:00 Zed Shaw just used it to plumb Mongrel2 together 23:21:09 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest1482 23:21:13 I'm not too clued into it's design though 23:21:41 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:21:46 NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:51 Guthur: what are you planning on using it for? 23:22:43 stassats: I did use the cl-zmq binding recent to make a simple parallel worker thing 23:23:14 and thinking about putting together a small distributed CL execution environment 23:23:30 how did it fare? 23:24:00 There's been a couple of CSP implementations for CL, haven't there? 23:24:39 stassats: the parallel worker, quite well actually, wasn't any spectacular but I liked the final solution 23:25:07 the interface is on lisppaste somewhere 23:25:21 was it fast? 23:25:23 it was only using inproc sockets, so not distributed 23:25:44 it was faster than doing this particular task sequentially 23:26:50 I should bench it actually 23:26:58 fe[nl]ix: So you disagree with the rationale for doing it, _and_ you've spent time analysing its implementation? 23:27:43 That's pretty impressive. Documented a critique anywhere? 23:29:20 Odin-: not in detail, I haven't read all code, but what I've seen seems questionable 23:29:46 that said, some people will find its convenience more important than the loss of performance 23:30:05 de gustibus 23:30:50 well of course 23:31:20 there is always a trade off 23:31:22 Well, it does assume a share-nothing environment in terms of threading. 23:32:02 CL and other language make similar trade offs 23:33:09 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:33:11 Guthur: maybe, but it could have been implemented much better 23:33:17 Which means space is ... not the chief concern. 23:33:33 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:33:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:34:01 Guthur: not all tradeoffs are unavoidable. 23:34:17 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:34:40 fe[nl]ix: I can't really comment at that level, I find my programming is not so close to the system 23:35:08 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:19 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:36:46 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:15 I quite like the message based approach of ZMQ, and the simplicity of use. 23:37:44 -!- saltmiser [~chatzilla@70.15.225.198.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:00 saltmiser [~chatzilla@70.15.225.198.res-cmts.ovr.ptd.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:05 huangho [~vitor@189.27.230.97.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:38:50 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 23:39:06 and the range of connection patterns REQ/REP PUB/SUB Pipeline 23:39:20 Would take me ages to implement all that 23:39:28 and it would probably be slower 23:39:48 and certainly less tested 23:39:52 I think it's safe to drop the 'probably'. :/ 23:40:22 At least, for the typical programmer. 23:41:12 what do authors of zeromq know what typical programmers don't? 23:41:44 i bet it would be faster, because it would be simpler and tailored to your application 23:42:09 it won't be as featureful, that's sure 23:42:23 you might even be able to learn from zmq's mistakes 23:43:09 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-1-99.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 23:43:36 It's in active development, and Open Source 23:43:55 Guthur: how many of those features do you actually need ? 23:44:06 no matter how active it is, it's hard to change something once it's big 23:44:22 stassats: They specialise in messaging programming, including implementing reasonably reliable messaging systems, whereas most programmers would rather be dealing with some specific program's core logic? 23:44:50 I think incompatible change to the wire protocol would not be easy 23:45:13 but 3.x actually changed the API from 2.x 23:45:19 Odin-: actually, zmq is explicitly *not* reliable. 23:45:45 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:06 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 23:46:08 Odin-: good for them, but byte is a byte no matter how cool you are 23:46:48 fe[nl]ix: I'll let you know if I implement my distributed CL execution env, hehe 23:46:53 Ralith: Yes and no ... it makes certain promises regarding the delivery of messages, while not promising the ability to deliver all messages. 23:47:13 stassats: Yes, but a byte stream isn't always what you're interested in. 23:47:26 if you need this kind of a messaging framework, erlang.org. 23:47:47 kleppari: Which requires a particular programming language. :p 23:48:13 Odin-: that doesn't matter, but if i am, i can easily make it on par in regards of performance 23:48:48 Back. Hum, so no comments whatsoever on http://paste.lisp.org/display/126870 ? I expected "good idea" or "stupid idea" but at least something... (That said, I'll be doing it regardless.) 23:48:58 fe[nl]ix: those connection patterns are quite commonly required though, where I work we have our own bespoke messaging system which offers broadly the same 23:49:17 Hexstream: unamusing idea 23:49:23 Odin-: I stand by my statement. :) 23:49:55 stassats: Being amusing was not part of the design goals, so moot point. 23:50:05 I'm actually planning to use 0MQ to bridge CL and some other stuff, with ProtoBuf RPC running on it 23:50:29 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:51:00 Hexstream: why not just use symbols, but use their names for identity? like LOOP does 23:51:15 stassats: YUCKKKKKKKKKK. 23:51:29 We already have one LOOP keywords fiasco on our hands... 23:51:34 kleppari: Although, actually, there _are_ libraries for accessing the scheme from other programming languages... 23:51:53 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-114-40.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:52:43 Actually, if everyone used incidental keywords for LOOP keywords, we'd be free to export those symbols from our packages without a deluge of conflicts. 23:52:43 Hexstream: but mainly, i don't like the idea of (define function [...]) 23:53:00 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-68-236.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 23:53:08 what conflicts do you have with LOOP? 23:53:49 Well, for instance it's very impractical to export a WHILE or UNTIL or REPEAT looping macro... 23:54:08 why? i don't see a problem with that 23:54:37 While with incidental keywords we could have something like (DO REPEAT (numtimes) [...]), where DO is a new "universal do". 23:54:45 I've pretty much finished up "Practical Common Lisp," "Land of Lisp," and "Successful Lisp" so I'm looking for a next good book to work through. Any suggestions? 23:55:01 SurlyFrog: PAIP 23:55:08 (do list [...]) (do alist [...]) (do while [...]), etc. 23:55:45 stassats: thanks, any particular reason why? 23:55:51 SurlyFrog: it's good 23:55:58 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@D-69-91-137-94.dhcp4.washington.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:56:28 okay. Any others? 23:57:12 Hexstream: can you explain me what problem with LOOP will you have if you import WHILE, UNTIL or REPEAT? 23:57:32 SurlyFrog: SICP 23:57:32 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:57:32 stassats: Import from where? 23:57:45 Hexstream: i don't care 23:57:48 dnolen [~user@p72-0-226-114-static.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:54 stassats: I've done SICP (well, many years ago at University) 23:57:55 from whatever you want to import them 23:58:03 SurlyFrog: On Lisp, The Art of the Metaobject Protocol 23:58:59 austinh: I've downloaded the free copy of On Lisp. Haven't started it yet though. 23:59:14 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-132-169.relakks.com] has quit [Quit: ddp] 23:59:18 Well, you'd have to do a lot of :shadowing-import-from, for one thing. Since a ton of packages use these symbols as LOOP keywords, which has the side-effect of interning them... Anyway, LOOP keywords is not exactly the principal use-case for incidental keywords. 23:59:35 I do notice that Norvig gives it a big thumbs up in his Amazon review