00:01:42 -!- snearch [~snearch@e178055069.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:04:39 ltmitch49 [~chatzilla@S0106002275b5a20a.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:22 I found away to get the indent I wanted and keeping the list 00:10:38 but it affected the implementation slightly 00:10:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126818#2 00:12:16 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:30 -!- sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.91.119] has quit [Quit: sergiolps] 00:13:54 sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.91.119] has joined #lisp 00:14:12 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 00:16:59 CrazyEddy [~eudaimoni@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 00:18:38 nha [~prefect@p3E9E3247.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:45 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 00:27:18 tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:18 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 00:38:52 about indentation. is there a way to make the arguments for the &key specification of a function autoindent at the same starting point? on large argument lists, i find it odd that the indentation starts at te same level as the non-key arguments of the function. 00:43:37 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128172074.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:44:16 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-135-34.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:46:59 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.187] has joined #lisp 00:47:49 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-110-54.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 00:50:24 -!- mope [~mope@host109-149-146-153.range109-149.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:51:57 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 00:52:22 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:53:03 gaidal [~gaidal@223.198.253.87] has joined #lisp 01:00:35 mmmmd_ [~tasty@adsl-76-254-6-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:01:05 -!- mmmmd [~tasty@adsl-76-254-6-25.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:01:14 -!- mmmmd_ is now known as mmmmd 01:01:59 madnificent, whut ? are u using as a text editor etc ? 01:02:02 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 01:02:38 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:48 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:07:10 zophy: I'm pretty certain madnificent uses Emacs and SLIME 01:09:08 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-150-158-113.range86-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:19 -!- nha [~prefect@p3E9E3247.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:18:09 What does this error mean? 01:18:09 *** - SYSTEM::MAKE-TRACER: keyword arguments in 01:18:10 (:NAME SUM-MRANGE (RANGER 1 10)) should occur pairwise 01:18:58 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:57 I think it means your keyword arguments are invalid. Should be a list of :keyword value :keyword value etc. 01:23:18 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-10-97.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:24:18 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-88-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 01:27:20 -!- waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:28:53 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 01:29:10 zophy: guther is right 01:48:08 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 01:49:15 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:43 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 01:51:33 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:52:04 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:52:07 sav` [~user@177.19.56.232] has joined #lisp 01:57:13 hba [~hba@189.130.178.126] has joined #lisp 01:58:44 stassats 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02:49:09 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:51:19 My holiday project (release announcement) - dlist, doubly-linked lists for CL. http://github.com/krzysz00/dlist As an added bonus, if you use {s,a}bcl, these dlists work with the standard cl sequence functions (map, reduce, position-if, ...). 02:52:03 _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has joined #lisp 02:53:58 krzysz00: you can use TYPECASE in https://github.com/krzysz00/dlist/blob/master/dlist.lisp instead of COND with TYPEP 02:55:50 etypecase might lead to clearer error messages. 02:56:54 and having everything in one line doesn't make code easy to read, especially with LOOP 02:57:01 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:19 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:57:59 and docstrings with >300 characters on one line 03:00:00 -!- dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:25 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:58 Thanks, everyone. 03:01:00 -!- emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:01:23 krzysz00: it would be better to disable loading of generic sequences in .asd, not in the file 03:02:44 So the *features* hack isn't the best idea, then. 03:03:00 which hack? 03:04:26 package.lisp has an eval-when that tests for the sequence package and `pushnew's to *features* 03:04:37 trumae [~user@189.83.41.121] has joined #lisp 03:05:01 -!- trumae [~user@189.83.41.121] has left #lisp 03:05:14 you can do that in the .asd and without introducing new features at all 03:06:55 like #+#.(cl:if (cl:find-package :sequence) '(:and) '(:or)) "generic-sequences" 03:07:16 -!- bsamograd [~user@184.71.240.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:08:01 I never thought of that, thanks. 03:08:31 krzysz00: in dodcons, it'd better to decide which function to call once, not on each iteration 03:08:50 NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:06 I need to leave, sorry. 03:09:17 and (member :from-end more-dlists) is fishy 03:09:42 emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has joined #lisp 03:09:48 -!- krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-170-109-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:10:47 too bad, i wasn't finished yet 03:13:39 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-32-241.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:40 -!- am0c [~am0c@58.227.209.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:15:44 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:15:44 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-32-241.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:16:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@223.198.253.87] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:20:32 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit 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[~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:26 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-18ba45a1.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:08:02 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:08:49 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:10:38 -!- kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:11:49 ehebert [~user@c-66-30-9-243.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:49 kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 04:12:37 -!- ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:15:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 04:15:50 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:24 -!- katesmith_ is now known as katesmtih 04:16:32 -!- katesmtih is now known as katesmith 04:20:50 -!- sepok [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:21:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.22.204] has joined #lisp 04:21:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.22.204] has quit [Changing host] 04:21:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:22:25 I'v been doing lisp the whole day; but, aside from recursion and lambdas, I don't really see why lisp is so powerful; in particular, I don't see how the parse-tree itself is available to lisp 04:23:01 "the whole day" there's your problem 04:24:39 stassats: ? 04:25:01 Did you write any macros? 04:27:34 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:28:41 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:06 poincare101: did it occur to you that useful things tend to take more than a day to learn? 04:33:04 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:36:58 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:39:12 ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 04:40:39 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 04:41:46 I wonder if Kyoto Common Lisp is still up 04:42:35 Cosman246: it became ECL. 04:42:41 Oh 04:42:47 And GCL, wiki says 04:47:06 GCL is dead. 04:47:18 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-178-004-068-145.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:47:59 -!- kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:48:51 kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 04:48:59 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:04 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:55:15 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:57:29 -!- ehebert 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-!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:47:04 danksauce [411b6052@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.27.96.82] has joined #lisp 05:47:35 incubot: (+ 1 1) 05:47:57 incubot: eval (+ 1 1) 05:48:15 Why do you want one? 05:48:40 It seems like fun. 05:48:43 I might write one. 05:52:23 fusss2 [~chatzilla@101.169.136.109] has joined #lisp 05:52:27 #scheme has two of them, and they're both pretty cool 05:52:41 Bike has Flybot 05:52:46 why do they need two? 05:53:52 greetings. is a library that has the basic functionality of PRIME-P and NEXT-PRIME for prime number generation and testing? I know sbcl has sb-int::positive-primep 05:55:16 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0ED2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 05:55:46 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:59:32 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:02:01 -!- fusss2 [~chatzilla@101.169.136.109] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.88 [Firefox 8.0/20111115183813]] 06:02:09 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 06:03:23 _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has joined #lisp 06:03:24 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:54 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 06:05:16 -!- DGASAU` [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:06:40 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:46 -!- danksauce [411b6052@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.27.96.82] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 06:13:26 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:26 _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has joined #lisp 06:16:21 _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has joined #lisp 06:16:21 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:18:23 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0ED2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:18:57 -!- kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:20:05 kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 06:20:05 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:09 _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has joined #lisp 06:23:24 Guest66045 [~Kenneth@CPE-121-214-116-45.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 06:24:28 _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has joined #lisp 06:24:28 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:51 dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 06:29:03 _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has joined #lisp 06:29:03 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:29:43 _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has joined #lisp 06:29:43 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:30:38 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:35:00 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 06:37:10 -!- Guest66045 [~Kenneth@CPE-121-214-116-45.lnse4.lon.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39:44 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.54] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:40:07 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:51:58 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:52:39 -!- brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:54:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:57:05 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 07:00:35 -!- sav` [~user@177.19.56.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:47 -!- poincare101 [~Dhaivat_P@CPE-65-27-96-82.new.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:02:51 sav` [~user@177.19.56.232] has joined #lisp 07:04:27 -!- sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.91.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:36 sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.81.142] has joined #lisp 07:04:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:05:06 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:05:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:08:20 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@223.198.252.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:11:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:12:18 brendyn [~brendyn@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:13:33 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:15:39 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.62] has joined #lisp 07:15:46 CrazyWoods [~crazywood@110.84.34.93] has joined #lisp 07:16:11 it's said that lisp is a programable program, right? 07:16:31 lisp is the programmable programming language 07:17:53 -!- samebcha1e is now known as samebchase 07:18:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:18:41 C and Java even machine code can be use to implement each other, so what's the point of lisp? 07:19:02 what's the point of you asking questions? 07:20:05 CrazyWoods, in Lisp you can change (i.e., program) the language itself at _runtime_. 07:20:16 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:20:22 dtw: this is not unique to lisp 07:20:27 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 07:21:14 CrazyEddy, lisp lets you abstract more than C or Java more directly 07:21:33 stassats, I know but that is what makes Lisp a programmable programming language and an answer to CrazyWoods's question. 07:23:03 yes, i just want to know the way lisp goes 07:23:16 teggi [~teggi@113.172.61.228] has joined #lisp 07:23:33 dtw: that's not the point of a programmable programming language, the point is that you can change the language itself, and not at run-time, but at compile-time 07:23:44 CrazyWoods: learn lisp and you will know 07:24:03 what exactly make it so different with other language 07:24:05 Is there a standard telnet library? 07:24:19 CrazyWoods: it's not so different 07:24:29 CrazyWoods: look up meta-programming. 07:24:38 CrazyWoods: it is homoiconic, which is a feature not available with many other languages 07:25:03 and meta-meta-programming 07:25:05 CrazyWoods: that, together with its metaprogramming features, makes lisp rather unique 07:25:23 Also: sexpy syntax 07:25:32 and #1=(meta . #1#)-programming, am I right 07:25:53 does lisp had it's own syntax? 07:26:17 CrazyWoods: before asking any more questions like these, please read an introductory article on lisp 07:26:32 CrazyWoods: we cannot explain the language in a meaningful way to you. 07:26:51 stassats, I think the point here is to help CrazyWoods understand this programmability of language. (I know about macro expansion time.) 07:27:34 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 07:28:04 i learned C Java Python before, now want to learn lisp 07:28:16 CrazyWoods: then do, by all means 07:28:18 which would be a good start 07:28:19 then stop asking question and get on to it 07:28:31 CrazyWoods: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 07:29:30 Also, see Land of Lisp 07:29:40 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:29:51 and SICP 07:30:03 and get your hands on a copy of CLtL 07:30:29 but there are a lot of variant of lisp 07:30:34 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:30:40 good morning 07:30:51 The dialect discussed in #lisp is Common Lisp 07:31:00 Good morning, mvilleneuve 07:31:10 CrazyWoods: common lisp is the standardized, industrial strenght dialect 07:31:14 ayushj [~ayushj@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:16 o wow! I thought this channel was about AutoLISP. :( 07:32:25 is it less difficult to implement a eval of lisp than a C compiler? 07:33:06 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 07:33:07 does it matter? 07:33:11 Anyone here write a C compiler? 07:33:37 ive written a pseudo-c compiler in scheme, does that count 07:33:55 is the meta-programming like Java's reflect? 07:34:30 Quadresence: have you also written a Lisp compiler? 07:34:37 or interpreter? 07:34:55 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-153.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:35:22 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nnqhbddmuvhrfwro] has joined #lisp 07:36:51 http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html 07:40:04 Cosman246, i have read it so i goes the problem 07:40:09 just asked before 07:40:48 CrazyWoods: you can do what you do in lisp in any other programming language. Only, it is much simplier to do it in lisp. 07:41:29 CrazyWoods: compare the sources of the boost::foreach template in C++ with any lisp loop macro. 07:44:06 pjb, yes, i just doubt why the language can implement each other 07:46:49 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:51 I have a question--how should I set up a TELNET server, and are there any good libraries for it? 07:50:35 azurelysium [~androirc@203.226.203.120] has joined #lisp 07:50:44 -!- azurelysium [~androirc@203.226.203.120] has quit [Client Quit] 07:50:59 waveman [~tim@124-168-80-70.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 07:50:59 http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-telnetd/ 07:51:18 I googled: "common lisp" telnet 07:51:37 I suppose, but it's not functional 07:51:45 http://www.cliki.net/telnetlib 07:51:51 I'm not sure about this one, though 07:53:28 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:54:34 kenanb [kenanb@176.54.88.192] has joined #lisp 07:56:30 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 07:56:40 CrazyWoods: metaprogramming in lisp is where running lisp code generates lisp source code to be called at runtime 07:57:10 the runtime is available at compile time, and there's tons of things you can do 07:58:46 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:59:57 jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has joined #lisp 08:01:09 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:33 CrazyWoods: Turing Equivalence. 08:01:55 Cosman246: you should not setup a telnet server. Set up a ssh server instead. 08:02:20 -!- ayushj [~ayushj@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:02:21 (unless your telnet server does not give access to the host user accounts). 08:03:18 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:04:54 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:05:53 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:07:43 -!- homie [~Brucio-39@xdsl-78-35-185-110.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:12:02 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:13:16 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 08:15:17 pjb, lisp are not case senstive? 08:15:42 pjb, the slime return value are all in uper case 08:16:06 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:16:24 CrazyWoods: common lisp is case sensitive, but the reader converts all symbols entered to upper case by default. 08:17:26 CrazyWoods: Try: (SETF (READTABLE-CASE *READTABLE*) :PRESERVE) 08:17:47 pjb, in slime? 08:17:50 Yes. 08:18:13 then i shall setup it every time i start slime? 08:18:25 Then: (DEFUN sin (&REST args) 'repent) and (LIST (SIN 42) (sin 42)) 08:18:53 CrazyWoods: lisp implementations have rc files. clisp reads ~/.clisprc.lisp everytime it starts (unless you pass the -norc option). 08:19:22 pjb,i see thanks 08:19:38 CrazyWoods: you don't want to change your readtable-case unless you have specific reasons, though. 08:19:52 CrazyWoods: otherwise you'll have to type all symbols in upper case 08:20:13 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@bodhilinux/team/Tristam] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:15 H2ns, ? 08:20:24 kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 08:20:25 CrazyWoods: Try: (SETF (READTABLE-CASE *READTABLE*) :UPCASE) ; to revert to default setting. 08:21:03 CrazyWoods: you don't want to change the default. lisp is very flexible, but you'll first have to learn it before you change it. 08:21:13 (DEFUN sin (&REST args) 'repent) and (LIST (SIN 42) (sin 42)) can be written with the default setting: (defun |sin| (&rest |args|) '|repent|) (list (sin 42) (|sin| 42)) 08:23:06 is there a way to get ("implementation specific" is fine, eg. how about SBCL) a form annotated with all derived types? 08:23:42 ie. I've got a form that does something, and I'd like to see what type restrictions are seen ... eg. as (the number (...)) and so on. 08:24:39 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-88-187.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:26:01 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 08:28:18 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:31:19 ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:15 varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:34:14 I'm dumping text to a file using format and with-open-file and something seems to be keeping my lines at ~80 char by inserting new lines, is there a way this can be avoided? this seems like strange default behavior 08:34:30 (setf *print-pretty* nil) 08:34:44 so that's what that does :P 08:34:49 or use let in your function. 08:34:50 Yes. 08:35:27 pjb: thank you 08:36:59 derrida, perhaps (with-standard-io-syntax ...) suits you too. 08:37:19 pjb: can other values than 80 be set for *print-pretty* to use 08:37:51 derrida, print-right-margin 08:38:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:38:33 dtw: this looks great, thank you 08:39:23 hyperspec page for with-standard-io-syntax is extremely helpful 08:39:49 (I mean *print-right-margin* of course, with *'s.) 08:39:56 *derrida* nods 08:41:52 derrida: given that default print config seems to be intended for human reading on an 80 char terminal, why is that a strange default? 08:43:49 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-czgofawhcoxdxjgo] has joined #lisp 08:43:49 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-czgofawhcoxdxjgo] has quit [Changing host] 08:43:49 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 08:45:10 Well, I was confused, it inserts new-lines which effectively breaks the data, presuming delineation by new line, I didn't realize *pretty-print* was causing the reformatting so I thought it seemed weird that the assumption would be that the text was destined for prehistoric 80 char terminals. 08:46:54 I might try to determine the width of what it's talking to, and default to 80 if it can't 08:48:14 it has no default if *print-pretty* is not set (which is the default), which seems very sensible, I was the one being irrational :P 08:50:15 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:51:15 s/I/It/ 08:51:26 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.62] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:53:02 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ymhocbaawkursixj] has joined #lisp 08:57:08 -!- sergiolps [~sergiolps@187.111.81.142] has quit [Quit: sergiolps] 09:01:03 ghosTM55 [~ghosTM55@li279-245.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:01:31 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:02:33 nha [~prefect@p3E9E2E71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:05:59 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 09:06:08 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:06:28 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 09:06:38 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:06:41 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 09:09:53 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:10:10 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:56 hello lispers, Happy New Year 09:12:22 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:16:02 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:26 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f71fd7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:20:34 woodz [~wooodz@host109-150-39-20.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:22:08 chenbing [~user@60.186.241.43] has joined #lisp 09:22:29 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:56 -!- kenanb [kenanb@176.54.88.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:22 Guthur [~user@host86-162-164-219.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:31:27 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 09:32:37 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 09:34:09 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 09:37:17 -!- CrazyEddy [~eudaimoni@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:38:49 -!- nha [~prefect@p3E9E2E71.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:40:27 A question about naming, should my method be called set-response-param as it it now, or should it be called setf-response-param ? 09:40:57 kiuma: (defun (setf response-param) (....) ...) 09:41:23 kiuma: or defmethod, if applicable 09:42:03 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 09:42:13 actually it's a defun like (defun set-response-param (key value &optional (response *kuma-response*)) (setf-header-value (http-response-header response) key value)) 09:42:31 kiuma: that looks rather unidiomatic 09:42:39 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 09:43:20 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:44:09 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:45:08 H4ns, switching between java an lisp , leaves rusty pieces on the path... 09:45:16 kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 09:46:53 but I think you have given me some Polish® 09:47:09 kiuma: i don't understand what you mean. 09:47:51 that I didn't remember the existence of (defun (setf response-param) ... :) 09:49:13 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:51:02 CrazyEddy [~birthston@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:52:29 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:58:39 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 09:58:59 nostoi [~nostoi@173.Red-81-36-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:00:08 -!- CrazyEddy [~birthston@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:01:40 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.129.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:05:13 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:05:30 Ivan_32 [5c702aa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.112.42.163] has joined #lisp 10:05:35 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:05:58 Good %timeofday% 10:06:52 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 10:08:24 I can't understand why it keep returning nil for anything except T offcourse. 10:08:27 http://pastebin.com/5Jcz2dc5 10:09:52 kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has joined #lisp 10:10:44 -!- CrazyWoods [~crazywood@110.84.34.93] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:11:15 -!- Ivan_32 [5c702aa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.112.42.163] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:11:26 Ivan_32: are you expecting (equal 1 t) => t 10:12:28 Referring to Ivan_32, good 121224+0200 to everyone. 10:13:02 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:14:32 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 10:14:33 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:14:43 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 10:16:25 -!- woodz [~wooodz@host109-150-39-20.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 10:17:20 ivan-kanis: `(good ,time-of-the-day) 10:18:14 (defun logic-or (a b) (cond (a t) (b t) (t nil))) 10:19:44 H4ns, now it's more idiomatic, thanks :) 10:20:37 is there a sub list company where I can get say the first 10 elements of a list 10:21:32 company/command 10:21:47 Guthur: subseq 10:22:40 H4ns: that'll do it, cheers 10:24:52 pjb: hi 10:25:05 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:25:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-63-99.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 10:25:23 pjb: but i think you were speaking to Ivan_32 ;) 10:27:01 121115+0200 -!- Ivan_32 [5c702aa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.112.42.163] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 10:28:37 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7642.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:29:10 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 10:29:13 benny [~benny@i577A2E75.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 10:30:54 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:31:01 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@173.Red-81-36-252.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 10:31:37 ivan-kanis: probably. Sorry. 10:31:41 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:20 zmv [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has joined #lisp 10:32:24 But once he's quit, erc doesn't complete his nickname anymore :-( 10:35:07 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 10:36:07 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:36:19 Happy new year. Does anybody use glx from quicklisp clx package? 10:36:29 I've used it 10:39:08 Please, tell me, what is your computer configuration? Glx works fine in vbox windows, but does not work in archlinux nvidia 290.10. 10:39:17 CrazyEddy [~coracine@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 10:39:29 I used linux with an intel card 10:40:30 ok, and does (gl-test:test) work? 10:41:09 let me try, i used it a while ago 10:41:17 may be gl-test:test has an error... 10:41:24 wait 10:41:27 you said "glx" ? 10:41:40 I used cl-opengl 10:41:43 yes, I can paste example code 10:42:32 There's nothing in quicklisp called "glx" 10:43:03 ok, and if you have time, could you test small piece of code? 10:43:20 Are you reading what i'm writing? 10:43:22 yes, glx is packed into clx 10:43:36 never used glx then 10:43:43 But i've used clx 10:44:31 asvil: clx's glx is generally not what people seem to use. 10:44:51 try a more direct binding like glop or one of the C wrappers 10:44:52 Yes I now, but I need some other computer configuration to find in what part of stack (clx, X11) there is an error. 10:45:23 I suggest you simply use a different stack. 10:47:06 @drdo did you use clx and cl-opengl together? 10:47:24 no, i used glut 10:49:01 @Ralith I saw glop and there is not so convinient event dispatching mechanism. 10:49:13 it has several, actually! 10:49:22 none of which are very mature or flexible. 10:49:41 -!- ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:49:44 none of the other libs have decent ones either, though. 10:49:51 I recommend hacking something together on top of iolib. 10:50:15 -!- CrazyEddy [~coracine@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:50:21 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AE60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:23 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p50829A64.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:51:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h94-75-63-99.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:53:56 lazybone_ [~yukiy@110.185.233.141] has joined #lisp 10:56:05 -!- lazybone_ [~yukiy@110.185.233.141] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:09 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:58:10 thanks, i will think 11:01:42 cpape` [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 11:05:55 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:06:32 pnq [~nick@ACA23B12.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:09:58 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181138064.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:10:59 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:11:32 -!- dys [~andreas@krlh-5f71fd7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:13:08 asvil: if you have some ideas for better event dispatching in glop I am sure the devs would be receptive of patches 11:13:09 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:43 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ymhocbaawkursixj] has left #lisp 11:17:10 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.178.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:19:12 CrazyEddy [~housebrea@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 11:20:07 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 11:20:55 Guthur: I've discussed this with Patzy in depth; the conclusion was that a full event system is not appropriate in glop, but that it is inconvenient to not have a minimal one; the present API should be extended with some trivial accessors to enable easy implementation of an improved system (such as via iolib) in external code. 11:21:11 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:22:12 Guthur: I take my words back about event dispatching, after I fully saw glop/test.lisp. 11:23:39 Ralith: Does glop use glx internally? 11:24:01 asvil: yep 11:24:06 osa1 [~sinan@31.140.77.2] has joined #lisp 11:24:07 asvil: glop calls the driver's GLX implementation, while clx calls xlib's 11:24:13 or something of that order 11:24:56 so glop's will work more often, but clx's will work over X forwarding. 11:27:26 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:30:30 ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:31:11 add^_ [~add^_^@h26n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:32:48 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 11:33:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 11:34:19 <|3b|> glop uses FFI to talk to whatever the native windowing APi is, glx for X 11:35:00 <|3b|> the GLX from CLX implements the GLX wire protocol in lisp, and connects to the X server using that, without going through a C library 11:36:24 -!- waveman [~tim@124-168-80-70.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:37:33 <|3b|> both should work over a network or locally, though CLX/GLX might use a less efficient connection than the C lib... not sure how that compares to FFI overhead though 11:39:04 Guthur` [~user@host86-147-201-108.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:39:13 <|3b|> biggest problem with GLX is that it doesn't support much of GL, so if you want to do much of anything you will need to do a bunch of work, for example it only recently gained support for texture as far as i know 11:39:19 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:39:40 <|3b|> (recently in terms of development pace, possibly a few years of actual time) 11:39:58 asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has joined #lisp 11:40:29 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-162-164-219.range86-162.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42:14 Guthur`` [~user@host86-148-136-221.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:43:49 -!- Guthur` [~user@host86-147-201-108.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126826 11:46:32 '(lambda ...) 11:46:49 pjb: at the expansion point? 11:46:54 or passed in 11:47:02 No, in the default value in the parameter list. 11:47:23 Those default values get evaluated, so you get a function instead of a sexp. You want to insert a sexp in the expansion. 11:47:35 ah 11:47:49 knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:47:55 it's the evaluation 11:48:00 ok cheers pjb 11:49:25 I have a swig question. When I make my .i file (or module file, or what's it called?) and include all the header files, sometimes it says #ifdef __GNUC__ in the header files. And I'd like to do #define __GNUC__ in my .i file. How do I do that? 11:50:08 You're not GNU C, so why would you want to do that? 11:50:51 There's a -D__GNUC__ option. 11:53:15 pjb: where can I find that in the documentation? 11:53:40 http://swig.sourceforge.net/Doc2.0/SWIGDocumentation.html#SWIG_nn2 11:53:43 Aha... -Dsymbol 11:54:53 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:57:10 The library is compiled with gcc, so the bindings should match that, I thought. 11:57:42 Perhaps. Doesn't swig take care of that? 11:58:49 It would, but I have installed a debian package, then the source, and I try to generate it from the source. 11:59:34 I did run "configure" though. 12:02:09 -!- Kryztof [~user@AMontsouris-551-1-12-62.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-65-191.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 12:08:00 But, I'm soon to give up. 12:08:11 I was trying to make bindings for jack 12:10:34 I'll see what I can get from here http://www.valkama.se/article/lisp/sbcl-sy-1/ instead 12:12:25 wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:14:00 csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has joined #lisp 12:19:48 dd 12:19:57 -!- osa1 [~sinan@31.140.77.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:21:21 hmmm define:dd -> Doctor of Divinity: a doctor's degree in religion 12:22:35 Xach: hi! i asked about the quicklisp release because i wondered whether i have time to release hunchentoot and cl-who 12:24:00 knobo: flaky network here :) 12:25:01 :) 12:26:48 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.251] has joined #lisp 12:27:17 snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:28 H4ns: sure 12:28:49 -!- snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 12:28:56 Xach: ok, so i'll do it later this week and not feel rushed 12:33:19 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 12:33:51 chenbing` [~user@60.186.241.43] has joined #lisp 12:36:07 -!- chenbing [~user@60.186.241.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:37:42 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 12:38:49 -!- Guthur`` [~user@host86-148-136-221.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:39:29 dys [~andreas@krlh-5f713ef8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:04 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:40:53 http://dl.dropbox.com/u/734346/my_parens_are_on_fire.png 12:40:55 white hot 12:42:50 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:51:37 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA23B12.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:56:13 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:57:43 CrazyWoods [~crazywood@120.42.93.132] has joined #lisp 12:58:21 -!- ghosTM55 [~ghosTM55@li279-245.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:59:04 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:00:16 snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:04:45 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h26n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 13:08:56 febeling [~febeling@g231191184.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:14:17 Guthur [~user@host31-53-254-170.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:36 nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:55 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 13:20:10 -!- snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:20:33 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:20:37 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 13:24:57 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:25:56 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 13:26:21 pnq [~nick@ACA2122D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:45 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 13:29:55 Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:59 Guthur` [~user@host31-52-60-19.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:30:49 sshirokov: with cl-zmq, how can I know determine if it is a EINTR error returned from send/recv? 13:31:12 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:29 -!- Guthur [~user@host31-53-254-170.range31-53.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:34:03 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 13:35:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:43:26 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:37 sshirokov: nvm 13:43:49 -!- febeling [~febeling@g231191184.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: febeling] 13:44:08 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 13:44:33 systemclient [~systemcli@p5B0A1C4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:38 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46:40 mileschet [~mileschet@189.54.207.196] has joined #lisp 13:47:25 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2122D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:09 Guthur`` [~user@host86-148-161-251.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:49 -!- Guthur` [~user@host31-52-60-19.range31-52.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:47 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:53:59 majoroi [70c64e5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.112.198.78.95] has joined #lisp 13:54:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:55:00 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 13:55:25 -!- majoroi [70c64e5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.112.198.78.95] has left #lisp 13:57:49 majoroi [70c64e5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.112.198.78.95] has joined #lisp 14:02:27 -!- majoroi [70c64e5f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.112.198.78.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:02:44 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 14:06:19 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 14:09:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-65-191.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:47 -!- mileschet [~mileschet@189.54.207.196] has quit [Quit: mileschet] 14:10:35 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:14:12 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:33 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:23:37 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 14:27:45 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:27:55 do you know how to create a safe boundary for a file that must be sent as a multipart message ? 14:28:56 kiuma: there is no way to create one without completely reading the file 14:29:00 It only need to be distinct amongst all the other boundaries in the same message. 14:30:01 H4ns, this does not fir with my model :( 14:30:09 kiuma: then change your model :) 14:30:23 madnificent, absolutely not :P 14:30:31 (...) 14:31:16 -!- knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:31:18 kiuma: it is theoretically impossible unless your file format has some oddities (like unused characters). but if you can prove it to be theoretically possible, many people will either stare at you with a blank face because you're *wrong* or be extatic because you changed the world. good luck! 14:31:59 lol 14:32:37 Encode the distance to the next boundary. 14:33:08 Then providing partial content capabilities for my http server means some sort of caching 14:33:44 kiuma: do you know the size of the file without reading it? 14:33:45 for multipart/byteranges 14:33:47 choose a long string randomly. Make it so te odds of network failures are much higher than choosing a bad string (: 14:34:09 You can base64-encode the contents, so you're sure it doesn't have any sequence of -------- in it... 14:34:10 pkhuong: you're evil and you know it! 14:34:30 -!- wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 14:34:40 -!- Modius [~user@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:34:41 pjb, is it what a browser does ? 14:34:43 pkhuong: though practically, it's a fair solution. and it's configurable! how 'safe' do you want your transfer to be :) 14:35:12 kiuma: I wouldn't look at others' code to avoid writing bugs.. 14:35:22 choosing a random boundary is the only sensible solution 14:35:44 but I don't want to encode 1Gb file 14:35:55 kiuma: that is why 14:36:33 mmmmm..... 14:36:48 edeloso [~user@c-66-30-9-243.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:56 kiuma: you can always try to find the boundary in the data read from the file and produce an error if you detect a collision 14:37:10 kiuma: but in practice, that will be wasted cycles. 14:37:17 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:37:17 yes 14:38:26 I think the cleanest solution is to provide this capability with server caching, ... good luck to myself! 14:38:46 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 14:39:32 or... avoid multipart/byteranges in favour of a single content-range, so it is possible to resume a download at least 14:41:09 -!- chenbing` [~user@60.186.241.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:42:27 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:43:25 -!- kilon [~kvirc@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:45:05 -!- ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:46:06 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 14:46:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:47:31 ski_ [~slj@c80-216-142-165.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:49:56 Carmidev [~carmidev@BSN-61-79-200.static.dsl.siol.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:49 Just pick a sequence that is not contained in the data to be partitioned. :) 14:51:18 Zhivago: ILTWYS"J". 14:51:37 pjb, is it a good choice to use clojure to do GUI program? 14:51:56 No. Clojure is not a Common Lisp. Better use ccl. 14:52:08 But, seriously -- just encode the position of the following chunk -- then you don't need to search. 14:53:13 add^_ [~add^_^@h26n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 14:53:21 snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:28 And without search, you can't collide. 14:54:23 Because the file cannot happen to contain the separator with the position encoded in it. 14:54:29 Obviously. 14:54:35 pjb, ccl? then what kind of GUI binding? 14:54:50 Since Clojure is. 14:55:11 You can use any GUI you want with Common Lisp. 14:55:20 Cocoa, Qt, Gtk, X11, whatever. 14:55:37 There is no separator with the position encoded in it. 14:55:50 For the obvious reason that ... it isn't a separator. 14:56:14 So it doesn't matter what the file contains. 14:56:24 Zhivago, my server is event based, so data are not read 14:56:31 Ok so with http, not with mime. 14:56:31 pjb, Common Lisp and other languange, such as Java or Python, which one will done thing easy 14:56:33 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 14:56:38 Hello all 14:56:42 kiuma: That was complete gibberish. 14:56:44 CrazyWoods: Common Lisp makes everything easy. 14:56:56 in fact, i want to develop a editor which generator xml file 14:57:02 *an* 14:57:03 crazywoods: Javascript. 14:57:05 *wah* 14:57:25 pjb, would you like to help me 14:57:32 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:37 No. But keep asking to #lisp. 14:57:55 pjb, ok 14:58:07 pjb, i don't know how to start a new project 14:58:27 Just create a new directory and a new file in it. 14:58:31 pjb, in Java or Python maybe i use MVC model to do a GUI project, but... 14:58:49 CrazyWoods: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html 14:59:46 You can do the same in lisp. 15:00:01 -!- linmin_ [~linmin@180.168.30.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:11 pjb, :) 15:00:19 pjb, do less things 15:00:28 linmin_ [~linmin@180.168.30.174] has joined #lisp 15:00:46 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has joined #lisp 15:01:10 lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-25-69.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:01:41 -!- systemclient [~systemcli@p5B0A1C4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:22 urandom__ [~user@p548A1D99.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:35 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:05:45 -!- Carmidev [~carmidev@BSN-61-79-200.static.dsl.siol.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:07:09 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:13 javascript seems like an increasingly better language to use for building (simple?) GUIs 15:10:02 It's what X11 ought to have been (dhtml). 15:10:37 nialo_n [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:47 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:11:20 Build widgets, deliver them, and then talk to them via messages over websocket. 15:11:27 wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:12:09 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:12:32 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:28 -!- nialo [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:18:08 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:23:59 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:24:38 -!- wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:21 azurelysium [~androirc@203.226.203.120] has joined #lisp 15:26:03 Zhivago: I've had the same thought 15:26:39 except perhaps with postscript or something 15:27:51 wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:21 ikki [~ikki@189.247.121.76] has joined #lisp 15:30:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-130-211.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:31:21 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-169-80-32.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:02 osa1 [~sinan@88.240.135.103] has joined #lisp 15:32:31 -!- yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:35:49 -!- dnolen [~user@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:35:54 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 15:37:23 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:24 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:48 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:37:53 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 15:40:13 yoklov [~yoklov@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:41:44 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:23 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 15:42:55 simple-mini [~androirc@121.157.225.71] has joined #lisp 15:44:55 is there a good resource to learn about common lisp declerations? 15:46:03 osa1: the declaration portion of the clhs 15:47:11 -!- azurelysium [~androirc@203.226.203.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:47:26 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:49:53 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:53:25 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402001.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:57:04 -!- wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 15:59:17 -!- kanru` [~user@61-228-156-222.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:59:19 H4ns: what's the status of Toot? I can't find the repo anywhere 15:59:47 -!- snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 15:59:58 snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:09 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:43 -!- nialo_n is now known as nialo 16:02:28 dlowe: i don't know. it is gigamonkey's thing and it used to be in his github 16:03:51 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:04 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B11A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:46 dlowe: https://github.com/gigamonkey/toot 16:09:09 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:11 dlowe: it is up and running, he has used it in manifest himself and it should be relatively stable (also api-wise) 16:09:27 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 16:10:05 dlowe: though you should expect changes anyways, as it is still fairly new. however, aside from toot a more expressive webserver is coming also. it is based on toot and it is named whistle. i don't think that's as stable as toot though. 16:10:22 dlowe: http://github.com/gigamonkey/whistle 16:10:47 dlowe: i'd expect toot to be just as stable as hunchentoot due to the large shared code-base 16:10:56 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 16:11:32 dlowe: so in essense, it's all awesome! new stuff in hunchentoot and new stuff because of toot and whistle \o/ 16:12:04 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:12:55 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:13:08 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:48 poincare101 [~Dhaivat_P@CPE-65-27-96-82.new.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:59 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:15:16 wasn't hunchentoot already "stripped down"? 16:15:50 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.164] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:15:52 *already supposed to be 16:16:09 not enough, i guess 16:16:10 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:22 I don't think that was a goal 16:18:17 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-107-20-0-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:32 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.121.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:18:45 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 16:19:25 madnificent: thanks 16:20:59 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.62] has joined #lisp 16:22:07 ikki [~ikki@189.247.121.76] has joined #lisp 16:23:08 -!- varjagg [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:23:24 ironChicken [~richard@195.3.137.108] has joined #lisp 16:23:46 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:52 Guthur``` [~user@host86-147-201-145.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:55 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:07 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:25:29 -!- Guthur`` [~user@host86-148-161-251.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:34 Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has joined #lisp 16:34:24 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.46.172] has joined #lisp 16:35:18 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.46.172] has left #lisp 16:41:06 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:41:17 Kryztof [~user@AMontsouris-551-1-12-62.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:41:21 cl-telnetd seems to be the only solutio 16:41:24 *solution 16:41:38 as telnetlib seems to be for clients to automate stuff 16:42:02 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 16:42:10 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.54] has joined #lisp 16:43:11 wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:32 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 16:44:32 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 16:45:09 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:45:38 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:45:47 -!- edeloso is now known as ehebert 16:45:48 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:48 stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:46:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-35-187.dyn.bashtel.ru] has joined #lisp 16:46:16 Cosman246: what do you need telnet for? are you writing a terminal oriented server? 16:46:39 sshirokov: you are one of the cl-zmq devs, correct? 16:46:47 whahaha i think i fixed the scrolling behavour partially for beirc 16:47:19 when people send channel messages it scrolls to bottom now automatically 16:47:27 H4ns: Yeah 16:48:03 I know, I know, ssh 16:48:04 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48:04 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-74-64-122-182.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48:15 Cosman246: not at all. just wondering. 16:48:23 Ah 16:48:27 -!- Guthur``` is now known as Guthur 16:48:28 Do you have any tips? 16:48:39 This is my first time working with telnet 16:48:46 hmm, yep 16:48:53 it works now 16:49:12 Cosman246: not really - you'll propably use character mode anyway, so you'll not have to implement much of the telnet protocol 16:49:34 at least it works 90% now 16:49:40 Ah. I was thinking of using CL-TELNETD, but that has little documenataion 16:50:17 the redraw-receiver receiver stuff is just lagging a bit from time to time 16:50:23 but all in all it works 16:50:48 Cosman246: the telnet protocol is really ancient - it has all sorts of stuff that you'll not need. all you'll probably want from it is tell the client to send you all key presses right away and not buffer them 16:50:49 they forgot that in, wait i'll pastebin it 16:50:58 H4ns: This is for a MUD 16:51:08 so maybe someone like Xach can fix it or so 16:51:12 Cosman246: but then, maybe you'll not even need that because clients start in character mode anyway. 16:51:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@h178-129-35-187.dyn.bashtel.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:51:35 it's not a bug in mcclim man 16:52:26 -!- ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:55:07 febeling [~febeling@g231191184.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:10 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:40 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 16:57:09 -!- febeling [~febeling@g231191184.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 16:58:20 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:59:03 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126830 that one fixes scroll in beirc 17:00:10 chenbing [~user@60.186.241.43] has joined #lisp 17:02:34 rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has joined #lisp 17:03:39 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:05:00 i 17:05:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:02 joast [~rick@76.178.187.164] has joined #lisp 17:08:08 -!- j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:08:29 -!- Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:09:43 j_king [~jking@mortar.walled.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:52 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-107-20-0-215.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:59 Fade [~fade@outrider.deepsky.com] has joined #lisp 17:11:28 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:54 i don't know tho why the scrollbar scroller thing gets scrolled upto 2 or 3 lines sometimes tho 17:11:56 i mean the lag 17:12:52 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:30 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-174-129-144-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 17:15:24 nha [~prefect@p3E9E2E71.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:24 Cosman246: you can get away with totally ignoring the telnet protocol 17:19:22 Cosman246: many mud clients don't even pay attention to the DONT ECHO signal :( 17:19:32 they just look for assword: 17:20:13 anyone know ext-blog? 17:20:31 its asd says it depends on #:image 17:20:43 anyone know what that is? 17:21:00 or what's a good way to find out? 17:21:12 ironChicken: email the author? 17:22:42 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:22:47 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 17:23:31 what's wrong with this macro? http://paste.lisp.org/display/126831 when I change "hash" parameter, it changes in (null ...) form but doesn't in (setf ...) form 17:24:36 only thing left is to get beirc-command com-input to use the clipper or so.... 17:24:42 i can't insert anything copy-pasted 17:25:24 osa1: you haven't defined a setf expander. you need to define that separately :) 17:25:50 osa1: either that, or i don't understand your question 17:26:02 osa1: there's a bug in your implementation. 17:26:16 pjb: yeah that's what I thought, I'm new at macros 17:26:20 osa1: also: what are you trying to accomplish? 17:26:30 osa1: you're testing the wrong macro, redefine and try again 17:26:36 madnificent: I'm trying to pass a variable name to macro and then setf on it 17:26:36 a documentation string could be helpful :) 17:28:40 osa1: stassats is right though, the expansion is probably from a previous definition. redefining the macro should make that hash work. but i'm still puzzled what you're trying to build. i don't understand when one would want to use such a construct. 17:28:43 even better now i put a (progn (update-drawing-options receiver) (or (redraw-receiver receiver) (redraw-all-receivers))) now in application.lisp of beirc 17:30:41 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:31:44 osa1: and with that statement i'm not trying to say that what you're building is wrong or anything. 17:33:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:52 oh wait, it's https://github.com/kevinlynx/image 17:34:01 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:09 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:34:27 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:28 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:38 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:38 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 17:35:09 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@75-162-53-63.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:14 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:36:22 and using only redraw-all-receivers in that line gets me an error weirdly..... 17:36:38 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:28 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:39:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:39:58 hydo [~hydo@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:20 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:41:29 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:57 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 17:42:44 -!- schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:46 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 17:43:08 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 17:44:21 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 17:46:49 ISF [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 17:47:26 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:47:26 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:49:14 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:55 csdserver [~csdserver@76.177.111.55] has joined #lisp 17:52:06 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@76.177.111.55] has quit [Changing host] 17:52:06 csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has joined #lisp 17:52:44 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:53:00 Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has joined #lisp 17:55:46 teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.55.251] has joined #lisp 17:58:32 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.61.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:37 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:00:52 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:02:55 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:03:17 pnq [~nick@ACA2D49D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:18 thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-398628.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:03:41 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:03:58 what's the point of specifying types of members like `(array #() :type simple-vector)` in a struct? 18:04:26 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:04:32 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402001.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:36 -!- simple-mini [~androirc@121.157.225.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:02 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181130220.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:05:06 pnathan` [~user@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 18:05:19 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 18:06:02 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 18:06:16 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:06:21 Anyone know offhand how to speed up/remove the emacs/SLIME fontifying message when a function is compiled in-buffer? I know there was a blog post about it in the last year or so... 18:07:05 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:08:38 -!- tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.62] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:09:30 -!- lispmeister [~fix@AStDenis-551-1-25-69.w81-248.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:09:49 osa1: some implementation may implement specific optimizations when the types of the slots are specified. 18:10:11 osa1: also, it may help the programmer to understand what the structure is about. 18:10:13 osa1: but in general, it's useless. 18:10:37 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:10:39 tensorpudding [~michael@99.148.193.184] has joined #lisp 18:10:40 osa1: for example, your slot member is named "array" but this is wrong, since the type is simple-vector. it cannot be an array! 18:11:11 osa1: so the type declaration shows that the original author is an idiot^W doesn't know what he's writing about. 18:11:50 ;-) 18:12:03 I little unfair, no? 18:12:21 pnathan`: (font-lock-mode -1) ? 18:12:32 I/a 18:12:58 Guthur: it's irritating to see slots or variables ill-named. 18:13:06 irritating and misleading. 18:14:14 (defstruct example (thingies #() :type simple-vector)) or (defstruct example (stuff-vector #() :type simple-vector)) 18:14:32 But there's no array there. 18:17:35 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:40 -!- thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-398628.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:22:40 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@113.172.55.251] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:08 -!- wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:17 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-398628.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 18:28:55 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.182.158] has joined #lisp 18:31:40 -!- snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:31:51 snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:33:47 -!- kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:35:50 kpal [~kpal@46-252-115-213.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:39:48 64MAAFN53 [~entrix@95-24-111-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:41:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:33 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:44:16 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 18:50:31 Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 18:51:36 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 18:52:51 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-45-158.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@ip-213-135-245-76.static.luxdsl.pt.lu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:56:55 pjb, hey:) 18:57:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-122-89.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:21 ?> 18:57:27 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 18:57:33 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:56 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-67-247-12-233.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:16 wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:59:06 CrazyWoods: What is it? 18:59:21 pjb, still strugle for lisp 18:59:53 Just ask, there are ~200 people waiting to answer questions on #lisp :-) 19:00:01 Morning folks. 19:00:04 201 19:00:05 davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:00:08 ;-) 19:01:50 pjb, is there predefine operational character for lisp or just function and macro? 19:02:01 re 19:02:15 CrazyWoods: your question is not understandable. There are functions, macros and special operators. 19:02:36 pjb, i want to know the kernel of lisp 19:02:57 CrazyWoods: lambda. 19:02:59 pjb, is it like C keep a certain key symbol? 19:03:03 You don't need anything else. 19:03:40 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:03:40 pjb, lambda is the kernel of lisp? 19:03:44 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:50 CrazyWoods: there's no definite kernel, since the special operator defined by CL can be implemented as macros, and the macros can be implemented as special operators (as long as the macro definition is still provided). 19:03:57 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 19:03:57 CrazyWoods: yes, you can implement lisp with just lambda. 19:03:59 nodie [~josemaria@173.Red-83-49-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:28 But not in any way that's helpful to understanding how to program Lisp. 19:04:33 Unless you are a deep wizard. 19:04:39 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04:44 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 19:05:14 CrazyWoods: But you need to start with a scheme: cons = (lambda (a d) (lambda (x) (x a d))) ; car = (lambda (k) (k (lambda (a d) a))) ; cdr = (lambda (k) (k (lambda (a d) d))) 19:05:30 \o/ 19:05:30 lambda calculus -> scheme -> Common Lisp. 19:05:58 H4ns: btw, I'm going to be spending a couple days hacking on Toot and Whistle. 19:06:00 pjb, what do you means by saying special operator can be implemented as macros and the macros can be implemented as special operators, so who implement whom? 19:06:07 So now'd be a good time for kibitzing. 19:06:14 CrazyWoods: the implementers. 19:06:21 CrazyWoods: CL defines 25 special operators. 19:06:33 But some of them could be defined in terms of other of them (as macros) if you cared to. 19:06:33 It's the implementers who choose what is primitive in their implementation. It's not the language. 19:06:44 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:02 CrazyWoods: for example see http://www.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html 19:07:51 -!- nodie [~josemaria@173.Red-83-49-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 19:07:53 i feel it like give you a brick then you can have a world ... 19:08:04 gigamonkey: cool! i'll see whether i can find the time. i'm still not yet decided how to continue with hunchentoot. maybe it would be best to port over the easy-handler framework and abandon hunchentoot. 19:08:19 CrazyWoods: maybe you should grab a book and read it. 19:09:10 [neg]r01dz [~neg]r01dz@gateway/tor-sasl/negr01dz/x-41213968] has joined #lisp 19:09:37 H4ns: fwiw, I'm currently thinking about the handler scheme in Whistel. 19:09:41 Whistle. 19:09:42 <[neg]r01dz> Gotta love lisp. I'm not debugging code, i'm debugging parenthesis. 19:09:46 H4ns, yes i read On Lisp 19:09:54 [neg]r01dz: you're doing it wrong 19:09:57 CrazyWoods: you too 19:10:09 <[neg]r01dz> H4ns: well aware of that 19:10:11 CrazyWoods: or read the AIM-8: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/aim-8/ 19:10:12 CrazyWoods: get a book that explains lisp first. read on lisp when you have understood the basics. 19:10:18 <[neg]r01dz> (id,((\x->([],([x],0))),(tempty,tempty,tempty,tempty,(tempty,tempty,tempty),(tempty,tempty,tempty),((([],([],1)),([],([],1)),([],([],1)),([],([],1)),([],([],1)),([],([],5))),tmerge),(\x->([x],([],0))),tempty),tempty,tmerge),tempty,tmerge) 19:10:23 <[neg]r01dz> lulz. 19:10:33 Certainly porting easy-handler to Whistle (probably better than Toot) would be a good test of whether I'm doing the right thing with Whistle. 19:10:44 [neg]r01dz: #clojure is there -> . 19:10:52 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-147-201-145.range86-147.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:01 [neg]r01dz: don't debug parentheses, let emacs+paredit do it for you. 19:11:36 <[neg]r01dz> or that. 19:11:40 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:11:46 Though since Whistle is about to become a moving target that may not be 100% appealing, depending on your timefrime. 19:11:52 ... what parens? I don't see any 19:11:53 frame. (Man my typing is off today.) 19:12:11 (and there's a glorious mod for emacs that replaces them with color boxes, even) 19:12:12 p_l|backup: there they're. You just have to ignore all the tempty's 19:12:13 pjb, i'll read the link you give me, came back later :) 19:12:16 thank you 19:12:30 gigamonkey: i have none. i just don't know how good it is to have two cl web servers that overlap as much as toot+whistle and hunchentoot 19:12:44 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-134-179.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:45 H4ns: yeah, there's that. 19:12:56 heh. And I'm probably going with mongrel2 19:13:05 gigamonkey: but then, huchentoot has teh documentation 19:13:43 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:15:13 H4ns: it does. I'm certainly not urging people to abandon Hunchentoot. 19:15:19 z` [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has joined #lisp 19:15:24 gigamonkey: *sigh* :) 19:15:44 gigamonkey: i wanted to hear "i'm always finished with the documentation" :) 19:15:49 Maybe someday but not yet. Though I'd be happy for hardy souls to try porting their stuff to Whistle and let me know how it goes. 19:15:50 rudi_ [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has joined #lisp 19:15:50 -!- zmv [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:16:43 "alMOST" 19:18:08 To provide some insight into whether the Whistle API is developing along the right lines. 19:19:09 H4ns: woah, abandon hunchentoot? isn't that a tad drastic? 19:19:28 madnificent: i'd like to see it be superseded in the long run 19:19:29 H4ns: perhaps something like whistle could be hunchentoot? 19:19:56 madnificent: i mean, it does not make much sense to refactor hunchentoot again, given that toot + whistle are basically just that. 19:19:59 H4ns: i wouldn't drop the name, nor the current interface. i think a lot of code depends on it. splitting up hunchentoot in multiple projects mightn't be the worst idea 19:20:52 -!- rudi_ is now known as rudi 19:21:20 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h26n1c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:21 LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:18 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:22:22 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:53 khoii [~khoii@203.78.123.162] has joined #lisp 19:23:27 The problem with keeping the current hunchentoot interface is depending how you define that, it may make it exceedingly difficult to refactor in useful ways. 19:23:32 -!- [neg]r01dz [~neg]r01dz@gateway/tor-sasl/negr01dz/x-41213968] has left #lisp 19:23:40 Anyway, that was my feeling and thus I gleefully abandoned it. 19:24:19 -!- khoii [~khoii@203.78.123.162] has left #lisp 19:24:49 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:58 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has left #lisp 19:25:00 at some point, i'd like to see hunchentoot be put into maintenance mode and the documentation refer to toot + whistle 19:25:02 totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:25 so I implemented persistent hash array mapped trie data structure in common lisp and somehow it's almost as fast as cl:hash-table, I'm almost certainly doing something wrong, right? (here's the implementation with the test https://gist.github.com/1551743 ) 19:25:42 until that happens, i'll accept patches to hunchentoot and keep it in working order. 19:27:28 -!- z` [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:27:41 zmv [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has joined #lisp 19:27:54 osa1: How can it be persistent, there's no file access!? 19:28:12 pjb: persistent as in Okasaki-style functional datastructures 19:28:18 Kron [~Kron@98.143.102.132] has joined #lisp 19:28:29 (clojure uses the term in the same way) 19:28:44 -!- Kron is now known as Guest80278 19:29:04 osa1: it's perfectly possible to match CL's performance in CL. Most CL data structures are themselves implemented in CL, in the usual implementation strategy 19:29:19 in sbcl, for example, equal hash tables are just CL code, nothing special 19:29:34 gigamonkey: is it complex to build a bridge between the current hunchentoot interface, and toot? it would reduce maintenance for keeping code based on hunchentoot up and running 19:29:41 Kryztof: wow, I didn't know that, thanks 19:29:45 so it's possible 19:29:55 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-67-247-12-233.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:30:13 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@180.172.43.245] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:30:20 btw, this is one of my first working programs written in common lisp, so any advices about code style and cl would be great.. 19:30:33 if you've got your environment set up right, you should be able to do M-. on make-hash-table and find the implementation 19:30:34 Actually, I know only clisp in which primitives (implemented in C) are usually faster than user code (compiled to byte-code). But that may be wrong nowdays that it has a jit compiler. 19:30:36 -!- 64MAAFN53 [~entrix@95-24-111-119.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:14 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:31:22 Kryztof: I'm getting "slime function definition is void" error when I M-. 19:32:04 shame 19:32:21 all I can say is "works for me" 19:32:31 bit of an odd error message 19:32:38 anyway, src/code/target-hash-table.lisp in your sbcl source tree 19:32:53 do not use as an example of good style 19:33:01 :) hehe thanks 19:33:12 I need to clone SBCL repo then 19:35:49 madnificent: well, I would not want to build such a bridge because I find the hunchentoot interface too complex. But in theory it should be possible. And I'd consider it an excellent test of whether Whistle is living up to my goals to see what stumbling blocks someone runs up against while trying to do so. 19:36:30 Or if you just want to keep Hunchentoot alive, it would also be interesting to see if it could be grafted on top of Toot. 19:37:10 Toot is very primitive so it is certainly possible but the bridge to Toot might contain as much (or more?!) code than the original Hunchentoot. 19:38:25 are (defun (setf gethash) ...) and (defsetf ...) same things? 19:38:32 osa1: no 19:39:05 Xach: sorry, I mean (defun (setf ...) ...) 19:39:07 Similar. 19:39:20 *osa1* copied the code from SBCL hash-table source 19:40:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.121.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:59 osa1: they end up setting things up to allow the use of (setf (...) ...) but they do it in very different ways. 19:45:23 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-67-247-12-233.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:54 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-174-129-144-205.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:19 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:47:45 -!- wbooze [~Brucio-39@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:48:27 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:24 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:42 velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 19:50:32 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-204-236-247-101.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 19:50:52 madnificent: i do not think that keeping the hunchentoot interface alive is a good long-term goal 19:51:09 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Quit: ddp] 19:51:21 pjb, it's said primitive lisp had 7 basic operator and the define of function, then just use the 7 basic operator and function denote to implement the eval, so what does the implementer need to implemement? 19:51:30 the eval? 19:51:35 lambda. 19:51:46 You can obviously implement eval with only lambda. 19:51:53 madnificent: this is because hunchentoot's api is not very well thought out. it has evolved from primitive to complex, and was never really designed from the ground up. 19:51:56 CrazyWoods: the question is meaningless... 19:52:12 Of the 7 basic operator, I've shown you how to implement 3 of them with lambda. Same with the others. 19:52:51 pjb, ok 19:53:05 pjb, the point is to implement a lambda? 19:53:14 CrazyWoods: if you want to implement eg. lisp in C, then you have other primitives than if you try to implement lisp in bash. 19:54:28 When you write a lisp compiler in lisp, you get to choose what operator your compiler knows how to compile, and what operators you will write in function of those "primitives". 19:54:46 madnificent: I think what might be useful is for folks who care to identify the parts of the Hunchentoot interface that they like. 19:55:13 If you say, "all of it", well you have it. 19:55:33 CrazyWoods: an implementor will choose his primitives depending on the performance he wants and the resource he has. 19:55:36 jcowan [~John@cpe-98-14-172-212.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:44 Otherwise I can see if Whistle can accomodate the good parts while leaving behind some of the historic cruft. 19:55:54 pjb, i see 19:56:06 pjb, have you ever implement a basic lisp system? 19:56:09 Can anyone with access to a non-free Lisp tell me what (machine-version), (short-site-name) and (long-site-name) return in that implementation? 19:56:19 CrazyWoods: parts of it. Nothing complete yet. 19:57:30 I know what abcl, clisp, cmucl, ccl, ecl, gcl, sbcl return. 19:57:50 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-134-179.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:53 jcowan: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126832 19:58:08 jcowan: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126833 19:58:13 Depends on the processor and the OS too... 19:58:27 Sure. 19:58:34 pjb: "non-free" 19:58:56 pjb, thank you 19:58:58 I have an allegro, which is not free, just "free". 19:59:16 -!- CrazyWoods [~crazywood@120.42.93.132] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:59:38 add^_ [~add^_^@m212-152-19-41.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 20:00:49 Ah, I didn't know there was a free as in beer Allegro. I'll add it to my standard list. 20:01:41 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-153.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:01 Hmm, pretty restrictive. Well, I'm only using it for the sake of comparison. 20:02:31 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-67-247-12-233.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 20:03:04 Thanks. 20:03:47 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-67-247-12-233.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:01 I am writing an R7RS-large proposal for environment enquiries, and I propose to leave those out, as the machine-version is erratic and not useful, and the site-names are not even implemented correctly (the CLHS calls for a physical location). 20:06:04 I am adding c-memory-model, though. 20:06:39 short-site-name and long-site-name are hostname and fqdn. 20:08:12 should be. 20:09:09 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@cpe-67-247-12-233.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 20:10:00 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:11:45 -!- Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-204-236-247-101.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:09 -!- rudi [~rudi@cm-84.208.89.228.getinternet.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 20:14:55 pjb: the CLHS says: 20:14:56 short-site-name and long-site-name return a string that identifies the physical location of the computer hardware, or nil if no appropriate description can be produced. 20:14:56 Examples: 20:14:56 (short-site-name) 20:14:56 => "MIT AI Lab" 20:14:56 OR=> "CMU-CSD" 20:14:58 (long-site-name) 20:15:02 => "MIT Artificial Intelligence Laboratory" 20:15:04 OR=> "CMU Computer Science Department" 20:15:26 Carmivore [~carmivmor@ec2-184-72-134-164.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:44 ABCL returns the hostname for both; CLISP returns the hostname and `uname -a`; gcl returns NIL for both (properly), and ccl, ecl, cmucl/sbcl return junk strings like "Unknown". 20:16:56 So "should be" is not "is". 20:21:31 Anyway, thanks for the help. 20:21:35 jcowan: any env query that returns a free-form string needs to die (-: 20:21:51 jcowan: Also, it would be fun to implement the spec for laptops with GPS :-) 20:22:10 -!- dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 20:22:33 antifuchs: You have a point, but what's the alternative for, say, lisp-implementation-type? There can't be a controlled vocabulary for that, because the whole point is that each implementation returns a distinct value. 20:22:47 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 20:22:55 It could return its feature symbol. 20:22:56 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2D49D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:23:05 yeah, l-i-t isn't /that/ free-form (-O 20:23:09 I see them as basically for things like logging, where you want human readable text, not a symbol. 20:23:58 Conditional behavior should be based on the symbols in *features*. 20:24:00 yeah, that's the one I can think of, too 20:24:07 yeah 20:24:49 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:03 maybe if these functions returned dictionaries with vendor-specific stuff on them... 20:25:51 R7RS supports features, but through special syntax, so that it happens solely at compile time; you can't change the feature list at run time, although you can conditionalize based on what modules exist to be loaded. 20:25:51 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:21 s/special syntax/a special macro/ 20:30:28 -!- snearch [~snearch@g231233102.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 20:31:30 jcowan: hmm. in ABCL's case that's impractical: you can compile on Windows and run on any other platform if you want. How's an app going to detect that? 20:32:07 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:32:28 ehu: I recommend that in that case the machine type be set to "jvm". 20:32:28 ah. not detect, but conditionalize. 20:32:44 right. but it's not the host OS. 20:32:59 The definition of SOFTWARE-TYPE is a bit vague, deliberately. 20:33:11 I run all my Lisps and Schemes on Linux ... on Windows. 20:33:19 But none of them know about Windows. 20:33:29 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-154-222.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:36 which sometimes *is* important, because even Java behaves platform dependently sometimes. 20:33:44 btbngr [~btbngr@188.28.97.44.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:34:05 right. but that's because there's probably a layer inbetween which does some mapping. 20:34:26 Java turns out not to be a layer like that, or at least, not fully. 20:35:00 Granted. The features list is open for that very reason. 20:35:17 So it might contain both "jvm" and the platform of execution. 20:35:18 my programs are completely host-os unaware as well. 20:35:44 but some libraries benefit from knowing about the difference. 20:37:53 Indeed. So such libraries will conditionalize on symbols for OSes, and hope they get them. Libraries or programs which depend on running on the JVM will conditionalize on that. 20:38:29 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-236-160.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:38 Cond-expand has more power than #+ and #-, because you get "and" and "or" and modules-as-features as well. 20:38:51 Or at least more convenience. 20:39:08 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-237-144.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:39:17 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:44:02 why do i notice a 2 or 3 time more cap of irc connection with erc then with beirc ? 20:44:36 it requires a lot of time until the connection gets reset with beirc i mean 20:44:37 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-398628.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:44:50 do you mean beirc dies after a few hours? 20:45:03 and with erc it seems to cap every 6 hours or so 20:45:15 no i mean beirc is more long living 20:45:26 oh - maybe that's because beirc doesn't time out the server connection 20:45:49 it waits for tcp timeout, which can be /long/ 20:45:50 hmmm, i don't know what you mean 20:46:21 so you mean i should set timout for erc to higher values too ? 20:47:13 irc servers send a "PING", and I'm sure erc drops the connection if it didn't get one w/in a certain time 20:47:25 Can one use macro-function to define aliases? 20:47:47 (assuming x times server ping interval) 20:50:02 OK, from now on (setf (macro-function ') (macro-function 'lambda)) will be at the top of my code 20:50:05 well i don't know why erc times out more often .... 20:50:08 yay for aliases 20:50:56 Cosman246: you'll probably need an EVAL-WHEN to make that work right. 20:51:08 Better to just (defmacro  ...) 20:51:15 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-134-179.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:23 antifuchs: but clients can send a PING as well (and if they intend to hang up, maybe they should) 20:51:50 yeah, good idea. 20:51:52 *Cosman246* looks up eval-when 20:52:13 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.240.135.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:52:28 I'm sure there is recommended behavior somewhere. 20:52:32 Even with that it doesn't work in contexts where lambda is just a symbol, I don't think 20:54:03 In particular, #'(lambda ...); although in principle you don't need #' there, it is habitual. 20:54:09 Bike: good point. Cosman246 i.e. you can't write (( (x) (* 2 x)) 10) 20:54:31 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:54:35 gigamonkey: what should you do instead? 20:54:49 Learn to spell lambda ;-) 20:54:59 gigamonkey: Why shouldn't that work? Lambda is a macro. 20:55:12 jcowan: not in the car of a list it's not. 20:55:17 Rather not in the CAAR of a list. 20:56:03 Ah, right. 20:56:15 gigamonkey: Will it work if I use eval-when as suggested, or is that where Bike's comment is aimed? 20:56:36 Nope. That's what Bike was talking about. 20:56:55 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Body/s_lambda.htm 20:57:54 Cosman246: The car of a form has to be either a symbol, a (setf symbol), or a (lambda ...). Macro expansion is not done there, which sucks but there it is. 20:58:10 Dangit 20:59:15 You could probably do it with a reader macro but then you'd have to mess with the readtable all the time. 20:59:23 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:36 Screw that, I'm going to find out how lambda is defined! 20:59:42 (set-macro-character #\ (lambda (stream char) 'lambda)) 20:59:57 stupid keymap doesn't have instant access to lambda 21:00:49 as gigamonkey says, this may not be all that practical. Composing readtables is not under control 21:01:11 *Cosman246* makes a voyage to the SBCL source 21:04:09 you might have a fairly long journey 21:04:14 Yeah 21:04:24 ;;;; Note: Take a look at the compiler-overview.tex section on "Hairy 21:04:24 ;;;; function representation" before you seriously mess with this 21:04:25 ;;;; stuff. 21:04:25 21:04:53 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:04:56 Kryztof: polish notation lambda? (-: 21:05:17 more like wambda amirite 21:06:39 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-nnqhbddmuvhrfwro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:06:54 antifuchs: hehehehehe 21:07:34 Where is compiler-overview.tex anyway? Is that compiler.texinfo in doc/manual/? 21:07:52 Wait, where's the file? 21:07:52 ha, no, it's almost certainly a 15-year-old cmucl-internals file 21:08:02 Of course it is. 21:08:06 as I said: long journey 21:08:26 I tried to read that sbcl-internals thing on blogspot and stalled unfortunately quickly 21:08:27 you will come out of it wiser, if only not to go to IRC for answers for now you have two problems (or something) 21:08:53 "Go not to the Elves for counsel, for they will say both no and yes." 21:09:00 and similarly 21:09:12 "Never meddle in the affairs of wizards, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup." 21:09:16 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:11:09 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:10 ayushj [~ayushj@c-50-135-152-107.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:44 <_schulte_> anyone aware of something like a "sandbox" in which I can evaluate evolved code without worrying it will overdefine cons or somesuch and break my lisp image? 21:11:46 Cosman246: a more pratictal approach might be to convince your editor to display LAMBDA as  21:12:03 _schulte_: no. give up now. 21:12:03 gigamonkey: tried that 21:12:12 http://www.emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/PrettyLambda 21:12:17 jcowan: that was for dragons. Wizards are quick to anger and slow to forgive 21:12:19 _schulte_: it's fairly easy to build an interpreter for whatever subset of Lisp you consider safe. 21:12:29 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-96-241-99-101.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:12:33 (sometimes, it's both, though.) 21:12:40 OK, it works now 21:12:59 And assuming you don't allow "evolution" to introduce new symbols into the mix (or control how they are introduced at least) you should be okay. 21:13:34 *gigamonkey* is assuming some kind of bounded GA/GP style code evolution. 21:13:39 <_schulte_> but I explicitly want the entirety of lisp, I was thinking maybe I could wrap the code in a package so definitions don't escape the package. Reading about "environments" in the hyperspec didn't lead to any obvious solutions 21:13:44 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-134-179.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:13:58 _schulte_: why do you want such a thing? 21:14:08 <_schulte_> gigamonkey: GP over existing CL programs 21:14:21 <_schulte_> fun and profit? :) 21:14:26 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.17] has joined #lisp 21:14:34 _schulte_: make code to rebuild your environment, so you can cycle afterwards. Either that or save-lisp-and-die so you have a point to restart from 21:14:40 <_schulte_> extending previous work over C, see http://epr.adaptive.cs.unm.edu/ 21:15:06 _schulte_: ah. 21:15:07 <_schulte_> Phoodus: ok, yea, I guess just launching an external lisp process is likely the only safe solution 21:15:21 there is almost no "private"-style data protection in CL. Anything can hit anything 21:15:38 so if you have suspect code, cycling the lisp image is generally in order 21:15:42 I still think you're better off controling the transformations rather than trying to control the effects. 21:15:44 <_schulte_> Phoodus: good to know, just wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something easy like (with-sandbox ...) 21:15:48 _schulte_: you might want to run it as nobody and chroot jail it, depending on how evil evolution decides to be 21:16:17 As I recall the stuff the did in the C code was pretty limited--grab a snip of code from somewhere else, drop it in, maybe swap a few symbols. 21:16:21 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:16:25 <_schulte_> btbngr: yea, that is a good point, I've brought down many a machine with evolved assembly code 21:16:36 Though I guess that could still lead to (defun cl:cons ...) 21:17:00 <_schulte_> yea, even limited to moving around existing code (nothing out of whole cloth) it can get pernicious 21:17:15 _schulte_: depending on how bounded your generated code is, you could make a small interpreter or use macroexpansions to output "safe" code that can be tested, then run raw if it passes 21:17:53 What do they do in the C version to prevent it erasing their hard drive or something? 21:18:04 chroot jail? 21:18:06 <_schulte_> run it in a VM 21:18:15 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:20 <_schulte_> and use limit scripts to control the number of file handles, etc... 21:18:43 <_schulte_> still they get sneaky, once had one that deleted all the tests cases on disk so and then everyone started passing all of the tests 21:19:03 Heh. Lazy evolved code! 21:19:26 there's a "In soviet russia..." joke in there somewhere 21:21:04 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 21:21:46 Probably not useful to you, but Owl Lisp is a Scheme that's pure functional: no mutation or variable setting.4 21:22:25 -!- chenbing [~user@60.186.241.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:22:47 In Soviet Russia programs throw off the shackles of their Test Suite overseers 21:23:40 Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-1-99.its.monash.edu.au] has joined #lisp 21:24:26 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBED9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:06 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@188.19.232.72] has joined #lisp 21:29:55 When one is editing a lisp file (e.g. C-x C-f ~/foobar.lisp), is that in slime-mode? 21:32:22 Cosman246: the emacs variable major-mode has the name of the current major mode. it's lisp-mode for me in a lisp buffer. 21:33:29 Huh, then lisp-mode-hook is doing something wrong. 21:34:07 H4ns, gigamonkey: just read the scrollback. i don't particularly like a single feature extremely much, nor do i especially dislike them. i think of common lisp as a solid platform, which is why i like for code to live on for a long time :) i do find it extremely interesting that the intent is to drop the current hunchentoot interface in favor of something more evolved. it would be nice if such message was sent into the i 21:34:24 "sent into the i"? 21:34:32 hydo [~hydo@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:23 nterwebs 21:35:35 jcowan: it got cut off? 21:35:43 Yes. 21:35:51 that's not nice of erc 21:36:20 IRC has a message length limit. 21:37:02 yep. a low one. 21:37:10 An unpredictable one, alas. 21:37:31 WHich means that good clients chop inputs early and send multiple messages. 21:37:33 yeah i know, but i thought erc did it correctly for me in the past, so i'm amazed 21:37:52 -!- asvil [~filonenko@178.124.160.180] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:37:57 MoALTz [~no@178.180.164.155.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has joined #lisp 21:38:21 madnificent: well, I'm leary of sending such a message to the broader world until there's more sign that Toot/Whistle is a viable replacement. 21:39:05 Given that H4ns is paying at least some attention to what I'm up to, I think at the moment the necessary parties are communicating. 21:39:17 The official max length is 510 + CR/LF, but not all clients support it, hence the need to be conservative. 21:39:27 *H4ns* does not see a problem either 21:39:42 And as I've said, I'd be happy for current Hunchentoot users, especially those who are somewhat disastisfied users, to kick the tires on Toot/Whistle and kibitz. 21:39:53 jcowan: 510 max for the entire message. 21:40:08 jcowan: including everything (addressing, server parts, etc) 21:40:14 Yes. 21:40:23 gigamonkey: i think it would be benificial to new users, as they'll then be more inclined to check out what Toot/Whistle are doing. i think it would also spur more interest into both projects as current users would then know what the path is. 21:40:49 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:40:50 ikki [~ikki@189.247.121.76] has joined #lisp 21:40:55 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-127-136.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:08 New users of what? 21:41:13 gigamonkey: as for myself, i find the time to check it out further, i will. i'm taking a quick peek at each webframework which i see coming around. Toot and Whistle are no different. 21:41:18 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:40 gigamonkey: although i normally just take a look at the documentation 21:41:58 pnq [~nick@ACA2FEEF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:42:00 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:01 gigamonkey: new users of hunchentoot. people that start using lisp for websites 21:42:27 madnificent: why don't you have a look at it yourself and then blog about it? 21:42:29 madnificent: I'd say toot/whistle isn't ready for those folks yet. 21:42:59 *gigamonkey* will blog about it as soon as he finishes implementing a blog server on top of it. ;-) 21:43:47 H4ns: my need for blogging is always disrupted by the realization that i don't have a decent blogging platform. for some reason i don't want to use a blogging platform i haven't written (though i actually have one). time is another limitation. << but i should! 21:44:27 Let's use usenet for blogging. 21:44:42 yay 21:44:54 H4ns: if you see slyrus around when I'm not here, you might ask him if he had a chance to port his blog thing to toot/whistle. He was taking about trying. 21:45:11 gigamonkey: /msg memoservv slyrus memotext works. 21:45:14 hey. a nntp-backed blogging platform *would* be awesome. even if you were joking :) 21:45:15 gigamonkey: /msg memoserv slyrus memotext works. 21:45:23 gigamonkey: /msg memoserv send slyrus memotext works. Ouf! 21:45:37 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:45:40 madnificent: blogspot.com 21:45:41 koollman: no joke. Just use usenet. 21:46:00 H4ns: i know, but as i said. for some reason i don't feel like blogging on something i haven't written. 21:46:39 madnificent: telnet news.individual.net 119 # you don't need to write anything. 21:46:39 H4ns: i'll try to get over it soon :) 21:46:59 what's the reason that auto-join-alist is not allowing me to auto-identify with beirc ? 21:47:07 when i set it i can't auto-identify 21:47:25 pjb: what? 21:47:27 when i comment it out i can auto-identify but then can't do a mulitple-channels join at start 21:47:36 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:46 madnificent: nntp, usenet. If you haven't written gnus, then just use telnet to some port 119. 21:47:50 according to wiki quite a few large ISPs block usenet 21:48:02 bad ISP, change ISP. 21:48:46 haven't check mine, though I see AT&T, which I assume is quite large 21:48:58 isn't gmane an nntp-backed blogging platform? 21:49:08 (if you squint) 21:49:11 pjb: i'll likely give clayworks/blogworks a swirl again and try to get it running on toot or whistle though 21:50:10 and why do i get nick in use messages when i already released my nick over here ? 21:50:22 and even ghosted.... 21:50:42 i get those messages via beirc 21:50:49 something is really not good 21:53:55 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:54:39 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:54:56 woodz [~wooodz@host109-150-39-20.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:13 Dang 21:55:25 The only Telnet server stuff has not been tested 21:57:15 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@188.19.232.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:23 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:57:29 -!- ehebert [~user@c-66-30-9-243.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:57:30 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@dyn-49-127-1-99.its.monash.edu.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 21:58:15 -!- woodz [~wooodz@host109-150-39-20.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:58:50 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-208-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:00:40 telnet server stuff? 22:01:05 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-208-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:02:16 snearch [~snearch@e178056189.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:02:46 Ralith: Yeah 22:03:29 what. 22:03:37 that's... really specific 22:04:56 hydo [~hydo@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:56 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.138.222] has joined #lisp 22:07:36 -!- hydo 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22:25:16 November [november@osiris.parodius.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:16 _3b [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:21 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:25:36 Ah! 22:25:38 I've got it! 22:25:57 gerberduffy [~user@c-98-234-249-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:12 -!- gerberduffy [~user@c-98-234-249-243.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:26:19 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:26:33 Use cl-launch to create a binary, then set that as a valid shell and put that in the inetd.conf file 22:28:32 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:29:24 the utility of stack traces like this: http://sprunge.us/EEAc seems minimal.... 22:30:19 derrida: that's because you're using FFI. FFI is bad. Rewrite that in CL! 22:30:28 rewrite sdl in cl :\ 22:31:48 Yep. Rewrite everything in CL. 22:31:54 don't use SDL 22:31:54 Resources allowing. 22:32:03 it doesn't support modern OpenGL. 22:32:22 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 22:32:52 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 22:32:57 If I was using an opengl context, that might be meaningful. 22:33:41 derrida: you can try and get a build with -fno-omit-frame-pointer. 22:33:44 but, opengl certainly uses ffi as well 22:34:38 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 22:35:40 yes, to talk to the driver 22:36:13 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:19 Ralith: http://www.flickr.com/photos/edsel12/3978131933/ 22:41:29 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:41:39 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:21 pkhuong: that appears to be default in Config.X86_64-linux 22:42:34 pjb: heh 22:45:44 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:46:04 syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:05 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@c-75-68-106-118.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:06 derrida: I doubt that. 22:48:22 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/818460 22:48:33 an sdl build, that is. 22:48:38 :P 22:48:41 *derrida* blushes 22:55:45 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:57:04 H4ns: still here? 22:57:19 Or any other Hunchentoot users. 22:57:44 casual users count? 22:57:59 I'm aggravated by having two ways to return a result from a Toot handler (inhereted from Hunchentoot) either implicitly by returning a string or by getting a stream and writing to it. 22:58:43 I would be very disappointed to not have the ability to write to the stream directly (a la (send-headers) in hunchentoot, iirc) 22:58:49 How onerous would folks find it (assuming they cared to use Toot) if you had to either call a function that returns a stream you can write to or another function to reply with a string. 22:59:00 Ralith: yes, that is my prefered mode too. 22:59:18 if you have to call a function to reply with a string 22:59:26 why not just make the stream method standard, and have people call princ? 23:00:08 Ralith: yeah, that's another option. Though when I've asked before folks seems like lots of folks use the string return route. 23:00:12 But maybe the heck with them. 23:00:29 the hunchentoot examples/docs seem to emphasize that one heavily, iirc. 23:00:43 switching over is certainly so low-cost as to be trivial. 23:01:06 after all, you're not trying very hard to be backwards compatible, are you? 23:01:20 I'm not trying at all. 23:01:39 Except to the extent that I'd like to keep open the possibility that folks might someday switch. 23:01:40 then I can't imagine it being an issue to anyone who's not completely new to streams. 23:02:01 Streams are general, strings are convenient. Both are useful. 23:02:04 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-103-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 23:06:23 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B11A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:06:38 homie [~homie@xdsl-84-44-208-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:07:49 rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:27 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 23:13:14 Quick, possibly stupid, CFFI question. If a function returns const char* and doesn't want us to free() the result, I think that CFFI's :string type would parse then free so isn't suitable. Is there a standard/builtin ":const-string" type, or should I roll one myself? 23:14:40 AFAIK :string doesn't free 23:14:42 -!- homie [~homie@xdsl-84-44-208-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:15:10 Oh? (feeling silly now...) 23:15:52 Ah. :-( See strings.lisp in CFFI's source. There's a foreign-string-type with a slot which says whether to or not. 23:16:00 (default T) 23:16:57 Hmm. And FOREIGN-STRING-TYPE isn't exported so I have to use :: to override the slot. Eugh. 23:17:14 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:21:12 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:22:46 Can't you just use a char * instead of :string? 23:24:15 I'm not sure what's cleaner. Either a macro that does that and then translates the string or a custom type called :const-string or something. 23:25:03 Qi seems interesting 23:25:09 what with including Prolog 23:26:11 I think I'm going to go with the latter: the macrology will be really horrible otherwise (since I've got various other expandy bits sitting on top of defcfun). 23:29:32 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:29:32 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:29:32 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:32:48 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBED9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:32:59 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:33:59 homie [~homie@xdsl-84-44-208-59.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:34:35 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has left #lisp 23:36:32 Though I might like Shen better 23:36:46 08:45 *** chenbing JOIN 23:37:00 ouch 23:37:09 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-103-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:37:09 -!- leth [~user@fsf/member/leth] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:30 oh man, why did they not enable tab stacking in beirc ? 23:38:52 gigamonkey: whilst looking at toot this sprang to mind: is there a separate library constructed to handle sessions? what are your thoughts on it, it seems like something that should be pluggable... i guess my question somewhat boils down to: have you thought about constructing components/libraries which can be mashed together into a framework that matches the preference of the user. 23:39:08 when i open 1000 tabs the window gets 1000 tabs to the right one beneath each other.... 23:39:18 lol 23:39:49 gallbladder987 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:44 leth [~user@fsf/member/leth] has joined #lisp 23:40:44 I'm in slime, trying to go through practical common lisp, and I don't get why C-c C-q isn't working to auto close parentheses in slime 23:40:52 I also like Shen's license: http://www.shenlanguage.org/license.htm 23:41:25 i don't know what you are all goggling about 23:42:10 gallbladder987: what does C-h k C-c C-q say? 23:42:30 something is changing all #+ things to #- somehow hereover 23:42:39 not in file 23:42:45 but in meaning somehow 23:44:19 chenbing [~user@60.186.241.43] has joined #lisp 23:45:43 -!- gallbladder987 [~user@c-24-62-228-150.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:48:55 gigamonkey: also, a turnoff for me in whistle is that configuration was to be done in config files, not lisp code. i think i stopped when i saw that in the readme. 23:49:04 madnificent: my thought was that things like sessions are above the level of Toot. 23:49:28 <3 config files 23:49:33 madnificent: hmmm. that's odd. 23:49:49 dlowe: the config file might as well be lisp code 23:49:51 *madnificent* <3 lisp code 23:50:10 madnificent: I disagree. 23:50:10 But presumably Whistle could provide the best of both worlds--if there is an obvious mapping between the config stuff and calls on an API you can configure it programatically if you prefer. 23:50:36 gigamonkey: i think i agree with that (sessions). do you assume it should be in a separate library so that users can pick what they want. have you spent any thought on an architecture for these things? (not blaming nor flaming, just picking your brain) 23:50:44 I will bend on this issue to say that lisp code that generates a block of configuration is acceptable 23:50:55 What is the origin of the name Hunchentoot? 23:50:59 madnificent: the problem with sessions is they require state-tracking 23:51:00 madnificent: I have not thought much about sessions. 23:51:08 state-tracking is VERY app-specific 23:51:36 for nontrivial apps it's most often implemented in databases, for example, which is way outside toot's domain 23:51:48 I have thought a bit about providing a way in Whistle to specify how cookies are set similar to but indendent of the way URLs are handled. 23:51:59 gigamonkey: but there must be similar issues with similar things you may want to bolt on the server. at least, i assume so. 23:52:21 Ralith: it's the equivalent issue for cookies. the right approach depends highly on the way the server is to be used. 23:52:27 So basically you have another set of handlers that get to look at the requests and set cookies (and do whatever else they want to databases, etc.) without having to intertwingle that with page generation. 23:52:37 madnificent: what? 23:52:44 cookies are a HTTP level thing 23:52:56 dlowe: i guess i dont understand why anyone would prefer static files to configure things, instead of a full-fledged programming environment to configure stuff. 23:53:07 set/get cookie is all toot needs to do, and it works fine 23:53:20 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has left #lisp 23:53:21 The reason I prefer config file to Lisp code is that arbitrary Lisp code is arbitrary--it's you have to read and grok all your code to know what URLs will be handled what way. 23:53:32 With a config file, you look at the URL patterns and see that they don't collide, etc. 23:53:35 Ralith: sorry my brain was shortwired for a second. 23:54:10 madnificent: because it's hard to check configuration when it requires your brain to turn into a Turing complete processor to process it. 23:54:23 -!- chenbing [~user@60.186.241.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:54:40 gigamonkey: you can do that with code as well. just depends on what you want to use. for clayworks i wrote (a very dirty) way of dispatching pages which looked like a directory structure containing regexes. 23:55:12 also, it's the freedom of the programmer to choose to write unreadable code, any person with sense would write it in such a way that it's understandable 23:55:35 chenbing [~user@60.186.241.43] has joined #lisp 23:55:43 madnificent: Sure. Don't think of it as a config file. Think of it as a DSL. ;-) 23:56:04 but if the code can displace a lot of configuration lines, it doesn't make sense to have all the configuration lines in a file. and that's what you'll likely end up with. 23:56:18 I'm not sure what you mean by "displace" 23:56:30 i will think of it either as something in which i can write lisp code, or of something which --in my brain-- is borked. 23:56:40 gigamonkey: substitute 23:57:02 gigamonkey: well, say that the code can remove a lot of config lines 23:57:07 madnificent: it's not possible to analyze lisp code programmatically from an operations point of view 23:57:09 So you're saying you think the configuration is necessarily going to be more verbose? 23:57:12 *madnificent* remember configuring things in xml config files and it was an ass 23:57:18 dlowe: no it is not, so? 23:57:19 Well XML is ass. 23:57:25 xml config files are the worst thing 23:57:36 gigamonkey: not having a programming environment to do the most mundane tasks is an ass as well :) 23:57:38 madnificent: that's really terrible in most production environments 23:57:47 What mundane tasks are you imagining? 23:58:01 dlowe: why would you want to analyze the lisp code 23:58:37 gigamonkey: the config files are for configuring the handlers, right? 23:58:57 Well, for mapping from urls to handlers. 23:59:04 -!- velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:59:14 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:59:22 madnificent: there's so many use cases I wouldn't know where to start 23:59:38 And also things like specifying access control and redirects.