00:03:29 Hmm, any cxml users around? I'm trying to figure out how to serialize a snippet of XML, rather than a whole document. 00:05:14 -!- Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:05:15 luis: I have a hack that hacks away everything around 00:05:27 Ralith [~ralith@216.162.199.202] has joined #lisp 00:05:52 I think it might be possible to do something with a custom SAX sink. 00:06:08 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128208011.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 00:07:11 a hack would be fine for now :) 00:08:18 luis: just search and subseq (: 00:09:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:08 ew. well, ok. 00:11:08 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:12:14 -!- felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:15:35 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 00:17:41 centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@75-170-148-246.desm.qwest.net] has joined 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joined #lisp 01:06:45 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:06:48 Posterdati: that has a lot of things worth fixing 01:08:29 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ea5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 01:09:26 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has joined #lisp 01:09:36 Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 01:10:05 -!- oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has quit [Client Quit] 01:12:02 oconnore [~eric@38.111.17.245] has joined #lisp 01:12:32 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:12:48 pnq [~nick@AC81AB54.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:52 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:15:29 davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has joined #lisp 01:16:32 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:52 -!- Kryztof [~user@AMontsouris-551-1-32-232.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:18:52 -!- zarus [~dilange88@24.196.113.147] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:21:38 -!- Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:23:30 dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 01:25:21 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 01:25:30 -!- MoALTz [~no@178.182.191.165.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:28:33 yo slyrus 01:30:50 -!- rswarbrick [~rswarbric@cl-1290.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:32:49 wh [~wh@112.91.81.82] has joined #lisp 01:33:11 -!- wh is now known as Guest70640 01:34:26 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-150-63.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:26 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-150-63.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:34:26 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 01:34:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 01:35:04 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81AB54.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:38:12 -!- adu [~ajr@pool-173-66-11-4.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: adu] 01:40:15 -!- martixy [martixy@78.90.38.181] has quit [] 01:41:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5150.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:42 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 01:43:12 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:43:41 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:32 minion: gentle 01:47:47 Bah. What's the book folks recommend to non-programmers. 01:48:05 A gentle introduction to symbolic computation? 01:48:12 Right. 01:48:14 Thanks. 01:50:44 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:59 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:51:23 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 01:59:18 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:09 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.45.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:01:06 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 02:06:31 Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:14:32 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:02 cohfree [~cohfree@60-240-56-87.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:16:27 -!- centipedefarmer_ [~centipede@75-170-148-246.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:18:49 whats the best way to start lisp programming on ubuntu ? 02:21:52 grab an implementation such as sbcl, emacs and slime 02:22:00 -!- cohfree [~cohfree@60-240-56-87.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:22:15 cohfree [~cohfree@60-240-56-87.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:22:33 yeah 02:23:03 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 02:24:55 that is to say, grab SBCL (or another implementation), and then also grab emacs+slime 02:25:26 Also, grab the HyperSpec. 02:26:55 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 02:27:26 if you don't already have some grasp of lisp, learning from the spec can be difficult 02:28:12 Not learning from it, just as a reference when seeing some function. 02:28:38 ah sure :) 02:28:47 yep 02:28:48 must-have 02:29:23 Especially when called from slime. 02:29:24 cohfree: common recommendation to read http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 02:29:35 Ahhh, thanks guys :) 02:29:45 i was learning it on windows for awhile 02:29:52 just looking for a way to do it here now 02:30:15 use your package manager to suck down slime, sbcl, and emacs. It should start up pretty easily for you 02:30:21 What did you use on Windows? 02:30:43 clisp 02:30:53 i think that was the name 02:31:02 did you use slime on windows, too? 02:31:39 no 02:31:41 NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:50 ok, well if you're used to raw repl, it'll work the same 02:31:55 i used geany to write any scripts, but i hardly ever did that, was just fiddling with interpreter 02:31:56 learning emacs + slime DEFINITELY helps, though 02:32:06 <3 slime 02:32:13 can i just aptget slime sbcl and emacs ? 02:32:21 or do i have to lug out the software centre 02:32:22 (tab completion, jumping to definitions, better error handling, etc) 02:32:29 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:37 I forget the package names; I always search in synaptic when I need to grab something 02:32:43 live coding.. 02:33:01 heidymadia [~saasten@fm-ip-61.247.42.167.fast.net.id] has joined #lisp 02:33:29 I recommend quicklisp for setting up slime 02:33:36 smoogy [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 02:33:42 hello 02:33:46 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:10 -!- davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:34:18 And the emacs prelude is pretty good if you're just starting out with emacs 02:34:20 aptget scbl emacs slime worked :) 02:34:26 will i have to configure it ? 02:34:41 you shouldn't use a package-manager-installed slime 02:34:45 ^^ 02:35:27 :/ 02:36:39 Ok i started emacs uh... 02:36:49 do i have to set document type to lisp script ? 02:36:53 somewhere? 02:37:27 once you've installed slime with quicklisp, that will be done automatically when you open a .lisp file 02:37:40 .. qiucklisp ? haha 02:37:57 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 02:38:32 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B14C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:21 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B0D1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:40:55 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 02:41:36 Ralith: I've not gotten into QL yet, but ubuntu set up all the .lisp associations in emacs straight from the package manager as well 02:41:40 _pw_ [~user@123.112.71.135] has joined #lisp 02:41:57 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.178.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:42:50 Phoodus: that's not relevant, given that a package-manager-installed slime is undesirable. 02:43:18 well, that's an assertion 02:43:30 hba [~hba@187.171.200.241] has joined #lisp 02:43:58 <_pw_> hi, anyone use cl-memcached? (ql:quickload "cl-memcached") failed with: package "CT-UTILS" not found, Line: 75, Column: 97, File-Position: 3306, Stream: # _pw_: Did you try quickloading cl-utils? 02:45:10 *ct 02:45:10 he shouldn't have to 02:45:21 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:45:59 zmv [~zmv@186.204.156.99] has joined #lisp 02:46:05 <_pw_> NihilistDandy: no such package. 02:46:22 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 02:46:48 it is coming up as utils not cl-utils? 02:46:53 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:59 sorry util 02:47:08 <_pw_> the code snippet is: (:td (format stream "~a" (ct-utils::sec-to-human-time-str (cl-memcached::mc-stats-uptime stats)))) 02:47:24 me345 [~me345@75.15.180.69] has joined #lisp 02:47:48 Hmm. It loads just fine on mine. 02:48:08 _pw_: is your quicklisp up to date? 02:48:39 <_pw_> Ralith: yes, it is update, so what's output of (ql:system-apropos "ct-utils") for you? 02:48:54 NIL 02:48:58 nil 02:49:55 <_pw_> it's weird ... 02:50:53 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 02:51:34 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:50 Is your lisp up to date? I don't think it should matter, but who knows? 02:54:14 -!- cohfree [~cohfree@60-240-56-87.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:50 _pw_: perhaps you have an outdated copy of some package(s) in your asdf search paths? 02:56:26 kenyao [~kenyao@58.252.109.13] has joined #lisp 02:57:34 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [] 02:58:09 -!- kenyao [~kenyao@58.252.109.13] has quit [Client Quit] 02:59:02 <_pw_> restart sbcl process resolved the problem. very strange. 02:59:44 zfx- [~zfx@host109-153-125-105.range109-153.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 03:00:40 can i get a list of the loaded and compiled functions in the REPL ? 03:01:19 why would you want such a thing 03:01:47 kenyao [~kenyao@li336-171.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:49 troubleshooting 03:02:06 <_pw_> ;; if you have cl-who installed, print a pretty html table for the memcached stats 03:02:06 <_pw_> 03:02:06 <_pw_> 03:02:14 that strikes me as a not-very-useful approach 03:02:45 <_pw_> can you try quickload cl-who, then quickload cl-memcached? see what's the output? 03:03:10 i'll give it a go 03:03:29 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:04:06 <_pw_> (ql:uninstall "cl-memcached"), then (ql:quickload "cl-memcached") will re-produce the problem. 03:04:53 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:04:55 csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has joined #lisp 03:05:29 zophy: you could iterate through the symbols of packages and use the fboundp and compiled-function-p predicates etc 03:05:51 _pw_: Well, you're correct there 03:06:42 _pw_: does the quickload redownload it? 03:07:53 <_pw_> Ralith: I guess it will redownload it, if uninstall delete the tar file. 03:08:10 well 03:08:16 does it reinstall it, is the question 03:08:23 or is it falling back on some manually installed version 03:08:24 phadthai, ah, a compiled function predicate ! 03:08:40 Ralith: On my system, it redownloaded and reinstalled 03:08:45 -!- kenyao [~kenyao@li336-171.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: My God! Gone...] 03:09:04 kenyao [~kenyao@58.252.109.13] has joined #lisp 03:09:27 -!- kenyao [~kenyao@58.252.109.13] has quit [Client Quit] 03:09:29 NihilistDandy: and produced the error? 03:09:53 If I uninstall and reinstall within the same process, I can reproduce the error 03:10:06 kenyao_ [~kenyao@li336-171.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:10:08 huh. 03:10:12 talk to Xach I guess 03:10:13 But if I uninstall and end the process, then begin a new one, it downloads it again and all is well 03:10:58 I was able to get it to "install" but it will not store 03:11:00 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:11:09 looks broken? 03:11:16 <_pw_> https://github.com/arielnetworks/cl-memcached/issues/3, I had just post a issue here. 03:11:47 Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 03:11:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:12:42 wait my memcached is not correct 03:12:55 . 03:12:57 I am trying to insert image into an emacs buffer from CL process. what am I doing wrong? 03:13:08 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:13:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126768 03:14:12 -!- kenyao_ [~kenyao@li336-171.members.linode.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:14:19 kenyao [~kenyao@li336-171.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:14:24 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:52 I have accidentally posted version where *image* isn't evaluated, but that's not the problem 03:16:00 as you can see image is printed fine 03:16:51 -!- nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:17:30 (swank:eval-in-emacs '(prin1-to-string (insert-image (create-image "C:/tmp/test.jpg")))) breaks with insane debug message above. while (insert-image (create-image "C:/tmp/test.jpg")) in elisp *scratch* works just fine 03:17:48 hello all. I have a problem where an error is being signaled in a future when trying to yield it, using the eager-future2 library. unfortunately, the CCL debugger doesnt show the stack trace for within the future (http://paste.lisp.org/display/126769). is there a neat way to get that information without trying to handle the condition? 03:18:40 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-42-148.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:20:13 oh memcached is not supposed to work with sbcl 03:21:05 phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-150-63.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:05 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-73-150-63.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:21:05 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:23:09 mensch [~mensch@c-174-62-210-182.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:32 -!- kenyao [~kenyao@li336-171.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: My God! Gone...] 03:24:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.6.31] has joined #lisp 03:24:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.6.31] has quit [Changing host] 03:24:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:24:47 smoogy: it would be better if you set the buffer (with-current-buffer "some buffer") ...) 03:26:09 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@72.19.54.139] has joined #lisp 03:26:28 smoogy: and eval-in-emacs is not exported. 03:26:33 smoogy: (swank::eval-in-emacs '(prin1-to-string (with-current-buffer "*slime-repl ccl*" (insert-image (create-image "/home/pjb/library/informatique/funny/container-choice-Lisp.jpg"))))) ; works for me. 03:26:48 you're right 03:27:32 it worked. but it's inserted a bit awkwardly. after CL-USER>. and it became a part of SLIME history 03:27:49 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:28:06 smoogy: you can also create another buffer and deal with it as you want. 03:28:59 smoogy: (swank::eval-in-emacs '(prin1-to-string (with-current-buffer (get-buffer-create "Lisp Output") (switch-to-buffer "Lisp Output") (erase-buffer) (insert-image (create-image "/home/pjb/library/informatique/funny/container-choice-Lisp.jpg"))))) ; works for me. 03:29:01 <_pw_> I guess i figure out what ct-utils is. on bottom of http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-memcached/, it reads: Thanks to Mr. Hrush Bhatt of Cleartrip for allowing us to make this library available under a BSD licence. so ct-utils must be some internal utilities library of Cleartrip. 03:29:18 I kind of wanted to have it in REPL, like it's done in DrRacket. but this is an emacs question now so I should probably ask there 03:29:38 should I switch to some other function than insert-image ? 03:30:03 smoogy: since the slime repl is a manager buffer, you will have to conform to the slime management. You will probably have to write your own slime code to do it right. 03:32:45 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@178.47.230.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:19 meaning I would have to change or patch slime source? 03:34:45 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:46 if so I'll just draw to another buffer, far simpler 03:36:36 It seems that slimes just does (goto-char (point-max)) (beginning-of-line) before inserting... 03:37:32 can we make it work then? 03:37:32 But it's no good for insert-image... 03:37:51 You have to study better how slime works... 03:37:52 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-198-255-25.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 03:38:16 will do. thanks for help 03:40:01 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:41:45 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 03:42:00 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 03:42:30 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:11 kanru` [~user@218-167-101-86.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:44:49 -!- heidymadia [~saasten@fm-ip-61.247.42.167.fast.net.id] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:44:56 -!- davlap [~davlap@c-24-147-211-14.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 03:47:23 just tried your code that draws into a separate buffer. works nicely. I will stick to that one instead of messing up SLIME buffer 03:49:05 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:52 xatltb [~me345@adsl-75-15-180-69.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:14 zzach1 [~zzach@dslb-094-221-126-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 03:51:46 -!- me345 [~me345@75.15.180.69] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:52:27 -!- zzach [~zzach@dslb-088-076-031-135.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:53:10 -!- dru1d [~lukasz@ip-82-177-172-217.net.azartsat.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:57:08 anyone knows off hand the name of the function in alexandria that chains several functions together? for example (funcall (func 'foo 'bar) 10) would be equal to (foo (bar 10)) 03:58:11 compose? 03:58:42 yes thanks 04:01:12 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-198-255-25.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:26 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 04:02:54 Vivitron 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[~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 07:41:01 good morning 07:44:22 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.186.58] has joined #lisp 07:50:22 -!- rogn [~foedus@180.191.41.145] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:56:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:58:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:59:17 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 08:01:05 -!- Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 08:01:49 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 08:02:21 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:03:29 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-165-67.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:06:07 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 08:06:59 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-246.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 08:08:09 -!- 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Don't you use hunchentoot? You don't need cgi, you're programming directly! 08:19:42 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 08:21:02 perhaps we wants the ability to call external CGIs? 08:21:59 http://www.cliki.net/FastCGI 08:22:00 pjb, no brandly new http server, an event-based / tread-queue mixed one 08:22:28 Study the cgi protocol and implement it. Study the fast cgi optimization and implement it. 08:23:33 just one question: is fast-cgi just a cgi with permanent processes ? 08:24:01 AFAIK yes 08:24:02 it seems to be from the little I'm reading 08:24:07 ah ok 08:24:11 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 08:26:22 before implementing cgi I need to refactor multipart/form-data so that I can use iolib for file parameters instead of standard lisp 08:26:31 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:10 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:28:56 pjb, of course I'll be able to program it directly, .... but if you have something ready in php for example, why not to use it ? 08:29:10 ps. I don't like php :) 08:30:14 otakutomo [~otakutomo@zaq771a4b1b.zaq.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 08:30:35 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 08:32:26 there's a http server written in postscript ... http://www.pugo.org:8080/ 08:33:11 lol 08:33:57 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:37:40 ASau [~user@95-27-174-189.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:37:43 Noctifer [~Noctifer@wrzb-4d004669.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:02 -!- _pw_ [~user@123.112.71.135] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:42:44 nostoi [~nostoi@210.Red-79-152-62.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:38 marsell [~marsell@120.18.226.192] has joined #lisp 08:44:39 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.226.192] has quit [Client Quit] 08:47:49 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128208011.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:52:44 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@210.Red-79-152-62.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:54:24 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Connection reset by peer] 10:43:12 dan64 [~dan64@c-71-206-193-42.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:45:08 -!- Vivitron [~user@ip98-165-43-236.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:47:09 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:47:44 daniel_ [~daniel@p5B326E1D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:49 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326EA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:50:29 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:52:34 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:53:46 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:20 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 10:55:05 -!- kanru` [~user@218-167-101-86.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:56:48 hi 10:57:22 why -crhistel- celebrated the birthday of a freemason? 10:57:27 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57:47 wrong channel 10:57:54 alex` [~alex@2001:67c:20a1:1116:224:d7ff:fe9b:e994] has joined #lisp 10:57:57 -christel- 10:58:10 stassats`: did you have his annuounce too? 10:58:54 i don't know what you're talking about and it's not related to #lisp 11:00:17 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 11:01:57 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:28 stassats`: it was some freenode global announcement, but yeah not #lisp 11:09:59 -!- Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:11:07 -!- heidymadia [~saasten@61.247.42.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:11:25 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:11:59 xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has joined #lisp 11:12:59 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:15:30 -!- Vicfred [~Futaba@189.143.108.118] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:16:11 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:22:05 -!- alex` [~alex@2001:67c:20a1:1116:224:d7ff:fe9b:e994] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:31 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:11 benny [~benny@i577A2ADA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:25:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:28:17 dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 11:28:20 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.54] has joined #lisp 11:28:29 Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff34fb00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:28:31 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-188001.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:36:06 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:45 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399765.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 11:38:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:40:23 -!- __root__ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:45:52 add^_ [~add^_^@h169n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 11:52:50 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:37 juanjo [57dc3a3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.220.58.61] has joined #lisp 11:57:54 Anybody here proficient in Hunchentoot? Need help testing how it builds with ECL. 11:58:12 juanjo: what do you need help with? 11:58:24 Need to start some sample server to see whether it works at all. 11:58:30 The manual is outdated in this respect 11:58:35 Either that or my copy of quicklisp is 11:58:48 juanjo: update quicklisp and you're good to go 11:59:07 juanjo: the manual at http://weitz.de/hunchentoot is up to date as well 11:59:33 hmm, i would've said I downloaded quicklisp last week. will try again 12:03:40 Kvaks [~kvaks@139.158.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 12:06:49 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:08:16 can I dispatch methods/functions on struct types? 12:08:34 yes, (but it's not types but classes) 12:08:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:10:53 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 12:11:51 argghh, timeouts not implemented for ECL. Hence aborting. Is there no defaulting mechanism? 12:12:44 juanjo: timeouts in usocket? 12:12:52 in huchentoot 12:13:09 ahhh, so the message comes from usocket? 12:13:30 stassats`: thanks. "I'm getting Implicitly creating new generic function METHOD1." warning when creating methods, is there something I should do about it? 12:13:38 juanjo: i'd say so. 12:13:49 juanjo: but you've not shown the message, so i'm really guessing. 12:13:59 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:14:17 the message is not very informative, just 12:14:19 Condition of type: OPERATION-NOT-IMPLEMENTED The operation SET-TIMEOUTS is not yet implemented for the implementation ECL. Consider sending a patch... 12:14:53 it really pisses one off that people add features and simply forget to notify implementors that they are missing. 12:15:07 first trivial-garbage with weak hash tables, now usocket 12:15:36 juanjo: i'd say it is up to the implementors and the users of an implementation to keep track of changes in compatibility libraries. 12:16:10 i would say it is up to users, but users just give up when they see a failure and do not report anything 12:16:25 and as for implementors, do you mean I have to keep track of _all_ the common lisp libraries out there? 12:16:43 juanjo: do you mean i have to keep track of all the implementations out there? :) 12:16:55 osa1: yes, define a generic function with DEFGENERIC first 12:16:59 juanjo: please stop the ranting. that'll not take anyone anywhere. 12:17:50 juanjo: have a look at set-timeouts.lisp and submit a patch, i'll put it into the next release. 12:17:53 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:18:04 don't know about others, but if i need something to work on something, i don't give up 12:18:18 H4ns: Hi, while you are here I have been meaning to ask is (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:easy-acceptor :port 4242)) supposed to work with sbcl? 12:18:29 cpc26: yes. 12:18:56 cpc26: update qucklisp or hunchentoot. that is what kept me from being able to use that line 12:20:11 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:07 juanjo: hi! 12:21:19 hi xach 12:21:51 juanjo: someone recently told me that file-write-date on a directory on ecl in windows returns NIL. can you tell me if that's true? if so, what's the right way to get a write-date for a directory in that environment? 12:22:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:22:44 works here (Mac) 12:22:57 I will try on windows in a few minutes 12:23:10 Thanks. Works on ECL/Linux, too. 12:23:36 Xach: I was able to program a table reader using read-from-string :) 12:23:45 Xach: as you suggested 12:24:12 in any case, it is supposed to work -- directories are treated like files for many purposes (delete-file, rename, etc) -- will have a look 12:27:22 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:27:56 -!- Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff34fb00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Cu3ert] 12:28:32 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:33 vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@178.125.153.107] has joined #lisp 12:31:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.6.31] has joined #lisp 12:31:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.6.31] has quit [Changing host] 12:31:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:33:32 How to make the debugger close but not say "Restart returned: nil"? 12:33:45 -!- osa1 [~sinan@78.175.212.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:33:55 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:02 vozhyk_: you can close the slime debugger with "q". I don't think I have ever gotten that restart message. 12:34:56 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has left #lisp 12:35:39 -!- juanjo [57dc3a3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.220.58.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:36:30 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 12:36:57 -!- Adlai [~adlai@109-186-25-246.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Changing host] 12:36:57 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 12:37:33 H4ns: thanks, it is working. 12:37:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:37:44 juanjo: thanks 12:37:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.6.31] has joined #lisp 12:37:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.6.31] has quit [Changing host] 12:37:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:38:35 gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:27 Xach: i get this message: http://dpaste.com/679304/, and when I select the STORE-DEFAULT restart, it says: "Restart returned: nil" 12:39:57 Xach: (the restart is mine) 12:40:54 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.120.212] has joined #lisp 12:41:22 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has joined #lisp 12:42:12 Xach: this code signals the condition and establishes the restart: http://dpaste.com/679305/ 12:42:50 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 12:42:51 slime expect it to do a non-local transfer, not to return 12:43:57 -!- JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:45:13 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-172-57.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:46:07 If I change "error" to "cerror" and add "(continue)" at the end of STORE-VALUE restart, it resignals the same condition 12:47:29 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:03 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:54:29 kilon_alios [~kilon@athedsl-399765.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 12:55:04 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399765.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:57:14 JuniorRoy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:00:53 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:01:24 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 13:03:42 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:04:10 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:04:22 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:05:01 Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff34fb00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:05:06 -!- Bacteria [~Bacteria@115-64-180-132.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Bacteria] 13:08:24 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:45 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:10:58 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:07 Martiini [~martin@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 13:11:20 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:39 -!- vozhyk_ [~vozhyk@178.125.153.107] has quit [Quit: ] 13:13:13 -!- kilon_alios is now known as kilon 13:14:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.104] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 13:16:19 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ea5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:32 zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has joined #lisp 13:22:26 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:23:05 -!- zophy [~zophy@host-5-150-220-24.midco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:24:50 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:35:08 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 13:35:55 Hmm, can you think of a canonical use of the (cond ((setf it (foo ...)) ...) ((setf it (bar ...)))))) construct? 13:38:41 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 13:39:12 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 13:42:57 Canonical? It's useful when you want to try various things on an object which you might have to fetch from (progressively slower) backing stores. 13:43:33 Eg: Try this slot on OB, otherwise try these two things on CACHED-OB, otherwise try the following on REMOTE-OB. 13:43:37 -!- kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-246.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:46 osa1 [~sinan@88.244.173.17] has joined #lisp 13:44:14 how can I move a paren one expression back? (opposite of ctrl alt ) ) 13:44:18 if you want to do the same thing no matter where it comes from, I'd go for (let ((it (or ob (get-cached ...) (get-remove ...))) ...) 13:45:15 osa1: Do you mean in paredit+emacs? 13:45:19 kpal [~kpal@217.12.71.138] has joined #lisp 13:45:25 rswarbrick: yeah sorry forgot to mention 13:46:04 You probably want paredit-forward-barf-sexp. I've got it bound to C-, but I can't remember the default binding 13:46:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:46:51 rudi: Ah, but the point is that each object is non-nil, it's just they might have slots set or not. 13:46:52 rswarbrick: yeah paredit-forward-barf-sexp just what I want, now I should find default binding, thanks 13:47:08 C-h w is your friend :-) 13:48:18 ok - (let ((ob (or ob (get-ob cached) (get-remote-ob remote))) (process ob)) 13:48:26 My most recent use the (setf it ...) was where I wanted to return multiple values, where the second value was an indicator of the source 13:48:32 Xach: I'd tend to use let instead of setf: (cond ((let ((it (foo ...))) it)) ...) 13:48:34 looks like default is C-, thanks 13:48:36 rudi: For example, the massive cond in the bottom of https://github.com/rswarbrick/mbcl/blob/master/hilevel-webservice.lisp 13:48:44 An implementation of FIND-SYMBOL, in fact. 13:49:19 so it was (cond ((setf sym (lookup name external)) (values sym :external) ...))))) etc 13:50:24 Well for multiple values, you must have an expression in the cond branch, the test would return only one value. 13:50:26 rswarbrick: yep, I was formulating some follow-up along the lines of "use cond if you need side-effects in case a lookup succeeds" 13:50:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:52:41 cond is lovely than nest-if 13:53:55 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:54:15 is there a form like with-slots but for destructuring multiple structs? 13:54:29 -!- Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff34fb00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Cu3ert] 13:54:38 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 13:54:52 osa1: not built-in 13:57:07 hmm, a naive grep for 'cond...setf' in quicklisp sources turns up only a few uses, all by gwking 13:57:15 i know i've seen the trick more than once 13:58:10 same. 13:58:16 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:00:05 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:35 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:02:27 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:04:23 wingie [~wingie@c-5eeaaa34-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has joined #lisp 14:04:27 can I mutate a slot of a struct in with-slots? for example: (with-slots (a b) struct (setf a 1)) ? 14:04:28 -!- wingie [~wingie@c-5eeaaa34-74736162.cust.telenor.se] has left #lisp 14:04:50 osa1: yes 14:05:01 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:10:03 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 14:10:47 this is nice Using only a four-minute hourglass and a seven-minute hourglass, measure exactly nine minuteswithout the process taking longer than nine minutes, found at http://mashable.com/2011/12/27/glassdoor-interview-questions-2011/?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=Feed:+Mashable+%28Mashable%29 14:11:59 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 14:12:01 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:13:09 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:14:05 Did you use screamer to solve it? 14:18:21 no, brain :P 14:20:29 kiuma: It's better if you pretend there's a lisp angle 14:20:46 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:24 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:22:13 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 14:22:37 I was doing it in lisp, but I saw I was dicking around and I've my http server to develop and port to something that coult be considered at least a pseudo stability 14:23:22 juanjo [57dc3a3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.220.58.61] has joined #lisp 14:23:54 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 14:23:57 Xach: problem identified. file-write-date did not normalize the path (i.e. remove the trailing / for Windows compatibility) 14:24:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:25:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.255.116] has joined #lisp 14:25:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.255.116] has quit [Changing host] 14:25:17 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:25:32 juanjo: aha! thank you for checking! 14:27:34 Xach: a patch is on the queue -- with about other 36 commits for typechecking and fixes. hopefully uploaded tonight. 14:28:54 Mazingaro [~Tetsuja@host160-215-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:28:57 hi 14:30:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:30:50 mishoo [~mishoo@92.83.39.171] has joined #lisp 14:31:04 it's me Posterdati... I need quicklisp to find packages on local filesystem before looking in the remote repository: I did (push #p"/path/to/projects/" adsf:*central-registry*) but it doesn't work... 14:31:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.6.31] has joined #lisp 14:31:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.57.6.31] has quit [Changing host] 14:31:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:33:39 velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 14:34:38 Mazingaro: What is the name of the system you want to find? 14:35:31 mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has joined #lisp 14:36:42 Xach: mwfa 14:36:54 Mazingaro: is there a file "/path/to/projects/mwfa.asd"? 14:36:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:37:13 Xach: mwfa is within a directory created with quickproject 14:37:19 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:38:01 Xach: yes there's mwfa.asd 14:38:02 Mazingaro: Then you must add that directory to the central registry. 14:38:13 The central registry is not a system for searching subdirectories. 14:38:19 using push as in your faq? 14:38:28 It searches exactly the directory you add and no more. 14:38:53 (push #p"/home/user/Development/lisp/" asdf:*central-registry*) 14:39:21 Mazingaro: One option is to keep a directory full of symlinks to system definitions. 14:39:59 For example, I have "alias install_asds='ln -sv `pwd`/*.asd ~/.sbcl/systems'" in my .bashrc 14:40:00 Mazingaro: i use this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/59709 14:40:51 teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.96] has joined #lisp 14:41:11 H4ns: ok, tx 14:41:44 Mazingaro: What I said makes slightly more sense pasted. See http://paste.lisp.org/display/126777 14:43:01 Mazingaro: Note if you want to test things out when moving .asd files around without having to restart your lisp, you need to tell ASDF to update its internal registry. The relevant code is (asdf:initialize-source-registry) 14:44:45 rswarbrick: thanks 14:44:51 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 14:46:34 H4ns: I copied your code in my .sbclrc :) and it worked ok, pushing #p"/home/user/Development/lisp/" in asdf:*central-registry* didn't work at all :) 14:47:06 Mazingaro: In what directory is mwfa.asd? 14:47:24 Anyway, if you just copy the directory wholesale to ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ you can avoid the entire registry configuration step. 14:47:37 /home/user/Development/lisp/mwfa/ 14:48:09 Mazingaro: if you wanted to continue to use asdf:*central-registry*, you would need to add /home/user/Development/lisp/mwfa/ to the registry, not just /home/user/Development/lisp/. 14:48:22 Xach: That's what the code from H4ns does 14:48:29 Xach: ah ok 14:48:33 (sort of) 14:48:38 Mazingaro: i use a slightly different setup. i have a directory containing links of all the asd files of the projects i work on myself (or for which i need a development version or some patches). i add that directory to asdf:*central-registry* 14:49:33 Mazingaro: a simple find in unix can populate the directory with links to the asd files in that folder 14:49:38 -!- kpal [~kpal@217.12.71.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:45 madnificent: is this the default config for quicklisp? 14:49:48 though local-projects probably isn't a bad approach either 14:49:59 I found symlinks and config files too much hassle, so I added the local-projects setup. 14:50:14 Xach: i don't want ~quicklisp to get full of garbage 14:50:31 Mazingaro: Why are you writing garbage? Write non-garbage. 14:50:42 Mazingaro: quicklisp is a tad to young to have a defacto default standard config, i think. though local-projects is something quicklisp offers explicitly. 14:51:04 Xach: I'd like to have a dir for one 14:51:14 Xach: I'd like to have one dir for one project 14:51:26 (damned laptop keyboard) 14:51:32 i personally don't want my code to be in local-projects because that folder structure doesn't fancy me + i want to be able to disable certain versions of code at some times. 14:51:46 Mazingaro: one lisp project? 14:51:48 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 14:52:03 Mazingaro: local-projects fixes that issue (folders). local-projects searches for asd files recursively. 14:52:11 every dir is a different project 14:52:48 Mazingaro: Which part of the project is garbage? 14:53:07 Xach: I did a lot of test projects 14:53:52 Xach: in that case local-projects might be suboptimal, no? 14:54:01 Xach: especially a bunch of examples taken from gigamonkey's book 14:54:01 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:54:23 madnificent: In what case? 14:54:25 however, does it matter that they're in that folder? they don't tend to hurt quicklisp. 14:54:46 then I start to use quickproject 14:55:26 Xach: in case there are a projects which aren't meant to be loaded. things which are expected to break. at least, i felt like it could be bad to have them in there, it's dirty. but it can't break anything if the systems are all named differently than what's available in quicklisp, so my reasoning is likely mute. 14:56:14 Xach: regardless, if there are projects which you'd prefer not to be bothered with, and which do have an asd file, then it makes sense not to have them in local-projects. and links then tend to make sense afaict. 14:56:27 madnificent: what do you mean for "break"? 14:57:08 Mazingaro: things which aren't expected to work. things which may make other stuff stop working. 14:57:16 madnificent: How do links make sense? 14:57:30 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Bye/Memento Mori] 14:57:40 madnificent: my projects are indeed very simple 14:58:03 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:59 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@64.134.188.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:59:04 felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:16 -!- Martiini [~martin@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:25 madnificent: I do not mess with system related stuffs, I use gsll or cl-svg or similar... 14:59:49 Xach: quicklisp + quickproject are very useful for me 15:00:12 Xach: you can keep a structure in your filesystem with all your projects in it, but only place links to the asd files of the projects you feel are stable. 15:00:18 How can I do to correct a defgeneric without restarting sbcl ? 15:00:34 Xach: sorry, only place links to the asd files of the systems you feel are stable 15:00:40 kiuma: one way is fmakunbound 15:00:42 -!- xjiujiu [~quassel@218.77.14.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:17 thank you 15:01:32 kiuma: with a shortcut of slime-undefine-function works also, i think 15:01:48 madnificent: I think I would be inclined to do that by moving directories instead. 15:02:54 Xach: i guess both are valid strategies. we seem to have a different preference there. 15:04:29 what are differences between simple-vector and simple-array? 15:05:06 A vector is one dimensional 15:05:29 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ea5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:05:57 A simple-array is described here: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/t_smp_ar.htm 15:06:40 -!- dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:08:10 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04ea5d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:42 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 15:13:01 -!- NihilistDandy [~NihilistD@c-75-69-129-101.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:13:58 rme [~rme@50.43.130.95] has joined #lisp 15:14:29 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:14:55 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 15:16:08 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:17:00 is there any way to join existing arrays to form a new array without copying elements (i.e., if i had multiple strings and wanted to form a new string representing their concatenation, must i necessarily copy their characters, or is there some fancy way to cheat and reuse the existing strings?) 15:17:31 clop2: why exactly do you want to do that? 15:18:08 -!- felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:35 clop2: there's no standard object to do that, but it's trivial to implement one by yourself. 15:18:56 i don't necessarily want to do it, i'm just wondering if it's possible 15:19:20 clop2: (defun displaced-concat (a b) (lambda (index) (if (< index (length a)) (aref a index) (aref b (- index (length a)))))) 15:19:44 an array which could be displaced onto multiple arrays would've been cool to have in the spec. 15:19:54 Then (let ((c (displaced-concat (vector 1 2 3) (vector 4 5 6)))) (funcall c 4)) --> 5 15:20:20 clop2: nothing like that built-in 15:20:21 Now you can shadow aref, and make one that works either on plain arrays or on displaced-concat objects... 15:20:27 clop2: Don't forget that this isn't really possible for other languages either: you always have to copy at least one of the arrays/strings since they might not be next to another. Of course, if you have one array which is extendable, maybe you can come up with a nice syntax to only have to copy one of them. 15:20:34 madnificent that would no longer be an array 15:20:50 felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:08 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:11 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:21:27 (Shadow 'aref) (defun aref (a &rest indices) (typecase a (function (apply 'funcall a indices)) (t (apply 'cl:aref a indices)))) 15:21:30 pjb i like your construction -- it sounds like though i can't get an actual string/array with this property 15:21:36 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:21:45 clop2: what's an actuall string/array? 15:22:00 Now: (let ((c (displaced-concat (vector 1 2 3) (vector 4 5 6)))) (aref c 4)) --> 5 15:22:05 pjb: hi 15:22:21 Hi! 15:22:30 pjb: That works if you are willing to replace every API. 15:22:32 pjb, i mean, i'd have to have some new object type, and it wouldn't be accepted by stringp, etc. 15:22:48 (Shadow 'stringp) (defun stringp ...) 15:22:52 Xach: indeed. 15:23:03 It is surely a trade-off 15:23:16 But that's possible. Not in the other programming languages where the syntax is hard wired by the compiler to some "primitive". 15:23:41 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:51 Oh, pjb, you silly person! 15:25:44 It's a great feature of lisp. 15:26:05 pjb: I've been keen on Factor's sequence protocol for a while. It would be lovely to find a way to package that up for lisp using shadowing tricks like that. Probably hideously slow though :-( http://bit.ly/vyn6GS 15:26:20 tensorpudding [~michael@99.102.71.62] has joined #lisp 15:26:29 I presume that the Factor implementation does clever tricks to make this fast for arrays and suchlike. 15:26:52 speed is relative. 15:27:07 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.104.154] has joined #lisp 15:27:17 Next time my sister complains about my bicycle, I'll tell her that :-) 15:27:34 pjb: A willingness to rewrite everything that doesn't fit with your ideas will let you do nearly anything in any language. 15:27:35 (that wasn't meant to be as much of a pun as it came out, by the way) 15:27:57 If array referencing is hardcoded, do it only via function calls. And then rewrite everything that doesn't work like that. 15:28:34 People should lose the mentality that only language provided primitives are worth using. 15:29:03 This comes from a[x] vs. ref(a,x) in non-lisp languages. 15:29:57 kennyd_: i know, but it'd be cool if such thing would've been specified 15:30:16 pjb: is Lisp primitiveless? 15:30:22 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:40 Yes, indeed. 15:31:10 See http://www.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html 15:31:56 Mazingaro: the standard says that any special operator can be implemented as a macro (and any standard macro can be implemented as a special operator as long as an equivalent macro function is provided). 15:32:41 Mazingaro: this means that the set of special operators defined by the standard is not a fixed set of primitives, but each implementation can choose another set of primitives. 15:33:03 wow 15:33:07 pjb: Alvy Ray Smith's algebra of sprites, implemented in C, really helped me understand how such a system could work. 15:33:25 so one could change almost anything 15:33:35 Mazingaro: yes. 15:33:46 urandom__ [~user@p548A3072.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:57 rewrite clos too 15:34:24 Xach: you point out a very interesting issue though. i wonder (not interested in implementing at atm) if something could be devised which allows users to specify that other code than the normal cl: functions should be used without having performance hits for those functions which haven't been altered. 15:34:36 Mazingaro: i recommend learning how to use CL before rewriting it. like how not to construct pathnames with (concatenate 'string ...) 15:34:58 Xach: ;) 15:35:06 Mazingaro: out of personal experience, i'd have to tell you that Xach is right :) 15:35:53 what about concatenate? It is fine! 15:36:59 Mazingaro: you should use the complex constructs which the spec offer you to construct and alter pathnames. i must say that i found them to be confusing, but i haven't found the time to look at it thoroughly in the past few years. perhaps it's all quite ok. 15:37:21 -!- rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-205-216.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 15:38:06 Mazingaro: how do you know it is fine? 15:38:26 Xach: because it's working 15:38:35 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:58 Mazingaro: it's working on your current system. 15:39:43 Mazingaro: we lisper think longer term. We have 50-year old programs still running, and we expect our programs to be still running on the systems of 50 years in the future. 15:40:06 Mazingaro: insufficient. 15:40:30 Mazingaro: concatenate already doesn't work when you run on MS-Windows. 15:40:40 Mazingaro: that's a very interesting subject btw. if you follow the constructs of the spec, your code can outlive currently known filesystems. that may seem a tad odd, but it is a very powerful feature. if you want to write a quick script which solves a minor inconvenience for you, it mightn't matter that much, but for decent code it's rather cool. 15:41:46 madnificent: do you mean use concatenate this way is not so bad? 15:42:16 -!- am0c [~am0c@58.227.209.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:42:38 It doesn't matter in throwable code. But most of the code you write will still be used in 10, 20 or 30 years. For this code, concatenate of pathnames would be as bad as Y2K. 15:45:49 Mazingaro: i'd more pragmatically say that common lisp offers pathnames as an abstraction, and ignoring them is basically an expression of ignorance. 15:45:50 -!- velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:03 velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:47:08 mishoo_ [~mishoo@92.83.44.195] has joined #lisp 15:48:03 H4ns: do you know mwfa? 15:48:31 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129045125.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 15:48:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@92.83.39.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:12 Mazingaro: no. 15:50:26 ... 15:51:20 Mazingaro: i'm saying it is terrible, but there might be an excuse for it 15:52:17 madnificent:am I so ignorant then? 15:52:18 -!- juanjo [57dc3a3d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.220.58.61] has left #lisp 15:52:24 Mazingaro: very. 15:54:10 -!- prip [~foo@host40-130-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 15:54:11 -!- velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:27 velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has joined #lisp 15:55:12 Mazingaro: i don't know in what code you're using it :) don't beat yourself up on it if you're starting with lisp, but understand the rammifications and try not to publish code which uses these things incorrectly. i've misused in the past too though. 15:55:43 madnificent: ok 15:55:47 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:57:21 I would say publish away! But be prepared to accept criticism and incorporate suggestions. 15:57:32 "It's fine because it works" is not a good reaction. 15:57:58 "Show your work every day" is what Ed Catmull suggested 16:02:31 Mazingaro: that's true too though. 16:02:50 Xach: we should have a quality index for code :) 16:05:29 Yes, pathnames are good but they don't always work without implementation-specific support stuff, like sb-ext:parse-native-namestring and sb-ext:native-namestring. 16:05:30 mishoo__ [~mishoo@92.83.143.240] has joined #lisp 16:06:05 dtw: which is still better than (open (concatenate 'string ....)) 16:06:16 H4ns, of course. 16:06:59 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@92.83.44.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:20 prip [~foo@host247-127-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:09:03 Some things are inexpressible with the pathname system, but it's good to know what. 16:09:11 why is the boa constructor called that way ? 16:09:40 homie: see http://l1sp.org/cl/3.4.6 16:10:27 Xach, H4ns: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126779 16:10:37 Xach, H4ns: does it look better? 16:10:43 oh man, sorry i was already reading it just skipped the "by order of argument" thing obviously.... 16:10:59 mishoo_ [~mishoo@92.86.222.81] has joined #lisp 16:12:20 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 16:12:29 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@92.83.143.240] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:12:51 Mazingaro: You do not need (:relative "."). Pathnames used for filesystem operations are merged with *default-pathname-defaults* before use. 16:13:01 madnificent: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126779 16:13:26 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@92.86.222.81] has quit [Client Quit] 16:13:47 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:13:53 Xach: relative to program path 16:14:01 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 16:14:29 ? 16:15:18 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:15:30 Mazingaro: if you want to produce a pathname relative to the program's home directory, you can obtain that directory in many ways and pass it as :defaults. http://xach.livejournal.com/294639.html has info about getting that pathname. 16:16:27 Mazingaro: the function looks quite awkward, and it does not have any documentation about the semantics so it's hard to suggest how to improve it while preserving the same behavior. 16:16:50 for CLX OSX X11 from emacs/slime I am starting sbcl from a "wrapper" script that exports DISPLAY=localhost:0 is that how this should be solved? 16:16:57 thanks 16:17:05 Xach: it is not complete 16:19:02 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.104] has joined #lisp 16:19:43 Mazingaro: the adjust-array stuff in particular looks very strange. is that a convoluted way to write vector-push-extend? 16:20:35 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 16:22:36 Xach: thanks for looking that up in the spec :) 16:22:43 Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff34fb00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 16:22:58 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:23:08 H4ns: How did you come to know about it? 16:23:38 Oh, sorry for not crediting you. I will add it now. I love learning new stuff like that. 16:23:40 Guthur [~user@host86-148-186-247.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:45 Xach: don't worry 16:24:25 Xach: i can't remember who told me that or whether i've just found the behavior myself and then claimed that it would be what the spec demands. 16:24:33 H4ns: hah 16:25:00 I've learned many things by reading the spec directly and many things by having someone tell me and then verifying that it was in the spec and I just missed it the first time around. 16:26:38 I didn't know that either. I've always wondered whether ccl was right to warn in such cases. 16:27:23 I wouldn't be surprised if the spec is not internally consistent in that regard. Maybe there's some other passage that says it shouldn't. 16:27:29 I'll let someone else find it. :) 16:28:01 -!- Cu3ert [~Cu3ert@dsl-olubrasgw2-ff34fb00-2.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Cu3ert] 16:28:23 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:29:27 *rme* closes an old ccl bug thanks to this new knowledge 16:30:23 Xach: no it is a way to make room for reading data 16:33:25 Mazingaro: I think it would look much cleaner if you used vector-push-extend. And instead of doing arithmetic with start-at-line everywhere, just skip to the right line based on that value and proceed. 16:33:57 e.g. (loop repeat start-at-line (read-line stream)) or (skip-n-lines start-at-line stream) 16:33:58 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:34:31 Xach: ah 16:35:29 Xach: tx 16:38:47 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-399765.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:39:50 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-176-81.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:40:42 smoogy [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 16:41:36 hello. is symbol CLASS used for anything in standard CL? it doesn't seem to be, yet SBCL still warns me if I try to create a function named class 16:42:05 -!- ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:42:14 Lock on package COMMON-LISP violated when proclaiming CLASS as a function while in package COMMON-LISP-USER. 16:42:43 smoogy: it's a symbol in the common-lisp package. 16:42:56 it's a parent class for standard-class. 16:43:01 ah 16:44:09 I wanted to do (shadow 'class) (defun class () .. ). good thing I asked 16:44:41 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-026-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:44 Shadowing it is a good way to use the name. 16:47:34 so no issue in doing that? won't it break things? 16:48:55 ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:40 smoogy: if your package doesn't assume it's the CL symbol, no. 16:50:04 smoogy: It won't break things. It doesn't affect things that refer to the CL:CLASS symbol. 16:50:26 smoogy: When in your package, an un-prefixed CLASS means YOUR-PROJECT::CLASS instead of CL:CLASS. 16:50:41 but you can still refer to CL:CLASS 16:51:13 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:53:28 but isn't it considered a bad style though to override CL symbols? can get hard to keep track of things, if for example I (or someone else) is using this package in another. (defpackage :another-package (:use :cl :package-that-overrides-cl-symbols)) 16:54:03 -!- mucker [~mucker@183.83.227.117] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:54:19 smoogy: it can easily be confusing both to users or readers of your code and to yourself later, so it may be better to not do it in the first place. 16:54:48 yes that's what I figured too 16:54:57 smoogy: I find it depends on the context. CLASS is not the name of something you can directly use, and it might be better to call it CLASS than some minor variation. 16:55:08 *Xach* shudders to see KLASS 16:55:13 :) 16:55:24 heh 16:55:51 smoogy: management of which symbols are available and how you reference them is part of CL life. 16:56:07 smoogy: you can discourage your users from ':use'ing your package, then it won't hurt to re-use symbols from cl that much. 16:56:23 Well, you also might not need to export it. 16:56:40 If it's just shadowed and used internally, it will cause no conflicts to consumers who also :use cl 16:57:09 I'm getting a "keyword argument not a symbol" error but can't find which function in SBCL backtrace, it's full of SBCL and SWANK calls, anyone know how can I trace the error? 16:57:12 it will be exported 16:58:16 smoogy: In that case, someone who wants to use both CL and YOUR-PROJECT could use (:shadowing-import-from #:your-project #:class) to get the desired symbol. or (:shadowing-import-from #:cl #:class) to prefer the other. 16:59:00 smoogy: but in that case, it's becoming less obvious where the symbol is coming from. 16:59:18 smoogy: so, it may be better form to use a different name, if possible. 16:59:20 osa1: Did you get that from calling a function in the repl? 16:59:25 Xach: yes 16:59:57 Buglouse [~Buglouse@cpe-65-28-172-255.wi.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:58 osa1: Could you have called it wrong? 17:00:11 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:00:33 Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:01:09 Xach: I'm sure my call is right but obviously something wrong about calls which function I called calls 17:01:29 I want to trace functions this function calls 17:01:31 osa1: If that is the case, I would expect it to show up in the first few frames in the backtrace. 17:01:50 Xach ok good to know conflicts can be resolved like that 17:02:19 Xach: if I compile the code and run do I see traceback without swank and sbcl calls? 17:02:30 osa1: No. 17:02:53 osa1: Maybe it's a matter of interpreting the backtrace. Can you paste your repl transcript and the backtrace? 17:03:15 smoogy: You can also opt to use neither cl:class nor your-project:class with (:shadow #:class) 17:03:34 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-026-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:04:32 Xach: here http://paste.lisp.org/display/126781 17:07:05 osa1: It's frame 2 (skip past the SB-INT stuff) 17:07:42 osa1: How is PUT-ENTRY defined? 17:08:42 Xach: here http://paste.lisp.org/display/126782 17:09:32 That looks ok. How about MAKE-KEY-VAL? 17:10:03 Oh no, I'm wrong sorry. 17:10:22 Note that frame 1 has a structure that presumably came from MAKE-KEY-VAL. 17:10:48 brandonz [~brandon@c-71-198-255-25.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:53 osa1: If you recompile it with C-u C-c C-c and retry, you may get a more detailed backtrace and be able to jump to the specific failing form with "v" 17:11:19 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:12:15 eataix [eataix@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kamhewtwiechalfc] has joined #lisp 17:16:20 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.244.173.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:52 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:18:07 osa1: Xach: It's invalid to modify a structure's "slots" with WITH-SLOTS. A structure might not even have slots! WITH-SLOTS uses SLOT-VALUE. 17:18:12 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-93.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:16 CLHS SLOT-VALUE: "The specific behavior depends on object's metaclass. An error is never signaled if object has metaclass standard-class. An error is always signaled if object has metaclass built-in-class." 17:18:26 "The consequences are unspecified if object has any other metaclass--an error might or might not be signaled in this situation. Note in particular that the behavior for conditions and structures is not specified." (oops, osa1 left.) 17:18:52 -!- eataix [eataix@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kamhewtwiechalfc] has left #lisp 17:20:30 Good call. 17:20:50 *Xach* looked only at "Both setf and setq can be used to set the value of the slot." and didn't go all the way through 17:21:34 "08:20:53 smoogy: In that case, someone who wants to use both CL and YOUR-PROJECT could use (:shadowing-import-from #:your-project #:class) to get the desired symbol. or (:shadowing-import-from #:cl #:class) to prefer the other." "08:21:38 smoogy: but in that case, it's becoming less obvious where the symbol is coming from." 17:21:37 ^-- Another alternative I don't see mentioned often is that you can just :shadow the symbol in the :use'ing package, and then always refer to the symbols with package prefixes. So there can be no confusion, then... 17:25:10 situ [~quassel@223.183.175.56] has joined #lisp 17:29:29 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:30:27 Hum. According to my understanding of WITH-ACCESSORS, it's really pretty limited, isn't it? You can only use this with actual slots of actual classes that have an actual :reader, :writer or :accessor, right? You couldn't use arbitrary function names that just happen to behave like an accessor, right?... I really, really hope I'm misunderstanding this. 17:31:01 Hexstream: what makes you think so? 17:31:27 H4ns: "Creates a lexical environment in which the slots specified by slot-entry are lexically available through their accessors as if they were variables. The macro with-accessors invokes the appropriate accessors to access the slots specified by slot-entry. Both setf and setq can be used to set the value of the slot." 17:31:49 This seems pretty specific to actually "slots" and "accessors". 17:31:54 actual* 17:32:37 i'd read this more as describing intent, but i'm not a good spec reader. 17:33:25 H4ns: If this is really what they intended, this is fantastically misleading. I've been avoiding ever using WITH-ACCESSORS for this reason... 17:34:25 pnq [~nick@172.162.32.12] has joined #lisp 17:36:37 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:38:59 On the other hand, it would be surprising if WITH-ACCESSORS were crippled like this while it's trivial to make it work for any functions. 17:39:08 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:39:41 that is what i'd think. after all, WITH-ACCESSORS is not a very complex macro. 17:40:42 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:42:07 -!- corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:42:08 yoklov` [~user@24-177-5-183.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:46:00 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:15 Hexstream: i mentioned! 17:49:37 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:49:42 Xach: Oh? I guess I hadn't catched up to that point in the logs. 17:49:56 *Xach* will wait for playback to complete 17:50:59 -!- yoklov` is now known as yoklov 17:52:50 Xach: Ok, well you said: "08:25:52 smoogy: You can also opt to use neither cl:class nor your-project:class with (:shadow #:class)" My angle is a bit different, it's "you have to use both cl:class and your-project:class", not "you use neither of them". 17:53:22 back 17:53:44 Hexstream: "use" meaning "make accessible" 17:53:48 The thing is, I think it's a bit ridiculous to "prefer" one symbol over the other with :shadowing-import-from when they actually are both important for the importing code. 17:54:04 -!- pnq [~nick@172.162.32.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:57:00 nha [~prefect@p3E9E2B2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:28 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:00:38 tyson1 [~Ian@bas1-toronto06-2925211785.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:02:57 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:38 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:05:19 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-204.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:05:23 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:07:04 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:09 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:16:38 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:20:03 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 18:25:38 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:28:19 -!- tyson1 [~Ian@bas1-toronto06-2925211785.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 18:31:55 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0a3be7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:11 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.251.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:33:23 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0a3be7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:33:42 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 18:34:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3072.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:39:07 osa1 [~sinan@88.244.173.17] has joined #lisp 18:40:48 osa1: It's invalid to modify a structure's "slots" with WITH-SLOTS. A structure might not even have slots! WITH-SLOTS uses SLOT-VALUE, which acts on actual slots of actual classes (not structures). WITH-SLOTS might "accidentally" work with structures on your implementation but this is not portable. 18:41:35 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has joined #lisp 18:45:53 Xach: Your COND SETF IF stuff from earlier finally pushed me over the edge into considering anaphora useful. However I know that the traditional way to go about it is entirely inadmissible for me, but I finally found a way to Do it Right(tm). It quite simple and convenient, and not screwy like the traditional approach. I'll release a library about that real soon :) 18:46:54 -!- teggi [~teggi@113.172.56.96] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:46:59 You'll be feeling the excitement quite a lot in 2012, I reckon. 18:48:22 I'm trying to generate random strings, is there a way to convert ascii codes to character? what I'm trying to do is generating random integers, then converting them to chars, and then concatenating chars 18:48:48 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: I'll be back B)] 18:48:57 osa1: code-char 18:49:42 is there a CL rss reader besides cl-rss 18:49:43 The opposite conversion can be done with, predictably, CHAR-CODE. 18:49:54 cl-rss only seems to support upto 0.9 18:50:40 ...well I am assuming that is the reason is will not consume the RSS target I had in mind 18:55:11 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-71-198-255-25.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gone] 18:56:27 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 18:57:46 EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:51 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:24 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 19:01:24 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 19:03:13 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:22 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:06:22 CaZe_ [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 19:06:33 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 19:08:11 -!- jjkola_work [c064748e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.100.116.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:08:56 -!- MoALTz [~no@188.147.191.80.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:08:56 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:08:56 -!- nialo`` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:08:56 -!- emit [~emit@unaffiliated/emit] has quit 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known as billstclair 19:35:02 nodie [~josemaria@173.Red-83-49-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:05 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-209-105-142-74.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:35:05 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 19:35:39 -!- nodie [~josemaria@173.Red-83-49-162.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:36:00 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 19:38:18 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.104.154] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:38:53 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 19:39:36 davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has joined #lisp 19:40:39 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 19:40:45 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:41:04 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 19:41:15 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:43:22 -!- kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:44:03 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:35 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-176-81.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:06 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:06 -!- EarlGray^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:01:39 is there a way to pass &optional parameters with keywords? 20:02:08 or if I want to pass just last optional parameter, should I pass something to all before it? 20:02:34 osa1: It's possible to use &optional with &key, but highly discouraged. 20:02:50 Hexstream: why? is there another way to do what I want? 20:02:56 osa1: There are about 2 operators in the standard that do that and it's a source of errors. 20:03:09 osa1: Yes. Convert all the &optional parameters to &key parameters. 20:03:16 Hexstream, did anyone suggest you look up 'accessor' in the glossary? 20:03:37 Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:43 gigamonkey: Yeah, well really my point was more about emphasis on "slot", not "accessor". 20:04:31 Kryztof [~user@AMontsouris-551-1-12-62.w90-24.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:06:08 Hexstream: well, the definition of 'slot' in the glossary is also pretty general. 20:06:08 gigamonkey: Interesting, actually. "reader n. 1. a function that reads[1] a variable or slot. 2. the Lisp reader." "write v.t. 1. (a binding or slot or component) to change the value of the binding or slot. 2. (an object to a stream) to output a representation of the object to the stream." 20:06:46 it refers to 'objects' which are glossed as 'an Lisp datum' 20:07:27 I always thought if I made a (defun get-whatever) (defun (setf get-whatever)) that accesses some magical hidden location, that this would be considered an "accessor" proper, but now I'm not so sure. 20:08:01 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 20:08:05 My understanding is that that is an accessor. 20:08:35 gigamonkey: Even if it involves arbitrarily complex computation to get or set the value?... 20:08:38 -!- kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:09:20 xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.129.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:09:33 Hexstream: part of the point of having accessors instead of using slot-value directly is that you can abstract such computations away, imo 20:09:34 Sure. Ultimately the value is stored in some 'component of an object' or a variable. 20:09:36 that might be true of defclass-generated accessors, too, due to aux. methods 20:10:26 sykopomp: Yes. 20:10:37 I guess it might be considered poor form to have the getter half of a getter/setter pair not return the last value set by the setter (absent multithreading). 20:10:54 kpal [~kpal@217-12-69-129.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:56 Also Keene's text book about CLOS talks about that just defining a method returning a constant value is also some kind of slot. (I can't remember what she calls it. But it's in the section about where object specific data can be stored.) 20:11:30 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 20:11:38 gigamonkey: No, the "slot" might really be multiple values in multiple places, in the general case. Though it's usually just one value in one place. 20:11:53 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 20:12:09 -!- drdo [~drdo@drdo.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:12:27 tcr: Yes, this becomes readily apparent when you start thinking in terms of generic function protocols. 20:15:59 drdo [~drdo@drdo.eu] has joined #lisp 20:17:03 pnq1 [~nick@ACA2FE4F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:17:35 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA39E23.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:45 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:54 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:18:03 tcr: It doesn't need to be a constant value either, it could be a computed value. Especially if the dependents are all values associated with the object that don't change during the lifetime of the object... The distinction between "slot" and "non-slot" is really quite blurry. 20:18:24 Yeah needn't be constant 20:20:08 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:24:31 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:41 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:04 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest845 20:27:01 -!- Guest845 is now known as X-Scale 20:28:54 EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:30 algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-11-218.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:00 -!- algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-11-218.as13285.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:31:26 algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-11-218.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:53 -!- algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-11-218.as13285.net] has left #lisp 20:32:41 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:39 -!- vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:34:03 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:35:20 vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:20 -!- vhost- [~vhost@robodance.kyleterry.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:35:20 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 20:36:45 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-46.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:37:24 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 20:41:05 Guest45326 [~homie@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:41:10 -!- pnq1 [~nick@ACA2FE4F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:14 -!- felideon [~user@65.23.61.98.nw.nuvox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:42:47 -!- dtw [dtw@dsl-roibrasgw1-fe84fb00-215.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Quit: Zzzz] 20:43:45 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:44:06 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:31 vervic [~vervic@vie-91-186-155-147.dsl.sil.at] has joined #lisp 20:44:33 -!- velov [~velov@91.207.42.52] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 20:45:12 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-228-191.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:45:58 I'm sometimes annoyed that the CL package doesn't include symbols for some important "conceptual types" such as SLOT, MACRO, SYMBOL-MACRO, READER-MACRO, READTABLE, PPRINT-TABLE... 20:46:37 Maybe we could even have READER and PRINTER, so you could implement your own or extend the standard one... Despite anything pjb might say, there really are a lot of CL aspects that are, unnecessarily to me it seems, "baked in". 20:47:03 -!- ngz [~user@23.78.199.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:47:10 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-237-144.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:52 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:48:32 We have symbols for the VARIABLE, STRUCTURE and COMPILER-MACRO conceptual types almost by accident, for DOCUMENTATION. 20:48:36 -!- osa1 [~sinan@88.244.173.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:49:00 I'm quite glad we have VARIABLE. 20:49:21 Oh, there's TYPE too. 20:49:30 and READTABLE as well 20:49:46 akovalenko: Oh, sorry, that's right. Nice. 20:51:26 is there a standard way to implement a global signal handler? (eg: if I wanted to catch all compiler-warnings and do something like keep statistics) 20:51:39 -!- bobbysmith0071 is now known as bobbysmith007 20:53:16 more curious than that I need it for something 20:54:36 unfortunately not 20:54:59 tcr: thanks, that was my impression 20:55:05 you'd do a (handler-bind (()) ) around the asdf:load-system or quicklisp 20:55:46 ASDF might be extensible enough that with the right :around method you could add what you want 20:55:48 I guess DEFINE-HANDLER would be nice :) 20:56:02 clisp got it 20:57:03 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 20:57:25 a global generic-function HANDLE-CONDITION which is then the default handler might be another way 20:58:43 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:11 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:11 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:59:11 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:59:36 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:15 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@79.Red-88-7-134.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:03:52 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:41 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:40 -!- djuber [~user@c-76-16-60-176.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:10:08 -!- EarlGray^^ [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:42 Ok, it's decided, I'll make a trivial cl-conceptual-types library that exports the missing symbols. Else there are various suboptimal solutions one can use which results in either arbitrarily mangled names or eventual symbol clashes. This is nonsense overhead. These symbols can be quite nice to have for the purpose of dispatching... 21:23:46 -!- EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:52 -!- Guest45326 [~homie@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 21:24:09 EarlGray [~mitra@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:21 -!- chenbing [~user@122.233.179.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:31 chenbing [~user@122.233.179.205] has joined #lisp 21:33:20 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:33:24 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:33:43 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:42:49 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:44:54 Noctifer [~Noctifer@wrzb-4d004669.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:17 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:49:17 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 21:49:17 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 21:50:11 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.186.58] has joined #lisp 21:50:50 slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has joined #lisp 21:52:38 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:00 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:55:24 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:55:47 pnq [~nick@ACA21A6B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@207.189.195.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:01:16 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 22:02:10 -!- smoogy [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (Session timeout)] 22:02:15 nialo``_h [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:21 -!- nialo``_h is now known as nialo 22:02:30 -!- nialo`` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:16:46 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.55] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-103-193.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:55 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:19:15 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:19 -!- nha [~prefect@p3E9E2B2D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:53 Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:09 gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 22:30:13 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:32:26 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0a3be7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:25 -!- churib is now known as gensym``` 22:38:33 -!- gensym is now known as gensym`` 22:40:47 shachaf [~shachaf@ip24.67-202-82.static.steadfastdns.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:44:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:44:57 -!- EyesIsServer is now known as EyesIsAsleep 22:45:14 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:47:17 -!- naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:57 naryl [~weechat@188.134.95.93] has joined #lisp 22:48:20 juanjo [5f10fe0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.16.254.11] has joined #lisp 22:50:40 Kron__ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:54 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:51:40 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:51:45 Xach: are you already working on a quicklisp release? 22:53:19 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:53:55 Quick question: If I have a long list and want the first 10 objects as a vector, is there a better way than (coerce (subseq lst 0 10) 'vector) ? This seems to copy the 10 elements twice. 22:54:37 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 22:55:17 rswarbrick: (replace (make-array 10) lst) will do with less copying, though not necessary faster 22:55:28 rswarbrick: if i'd really want that, i'd use a loop. 22:55:57 hi, can I dolist over 2 lists of the same length? 22:56:17 (dolist* (a list1) (b list2) ... ) 22:56:17 H4ns: I'm chopping a long list into a list of short arrays. As far as I can tell, a DO form with NTHCDR is the simplest (and possibly also the fastest) approach. 22:56:30 akovalenko: Ah, that makes sense. 22:56:40 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 22:57:18 I was looking for an equivalent of (make-array ... :initial-contents ...) which didn't use all of the initial contents! 22:57:31 puchacz: (Loop for a in list1 and b in list2) 22:57:42 akovalenko: thx 22:59:38 puchacz: Or (mapc (lambda (first-element second-element) whatever-body) first-list second-list) (with better variable names...) 23:01:09 -!- xan_ [~xan@80.174.78.129.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:01:19 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:59 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4d0a3be7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 23:03:19 -!- juanjo [5f10fe0b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.95.16.254.11] has left #lisp 23:04:03 -!- gozek [~quassel@56.165.216.87.static.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: I'll be back B)] 23:05:07 rswarbrick: you could alter the list twice. first split it in two by altering the cdr, then use it as an argument to make-array, then alter it again. i think i'd go for the loop as H4ns proposed though. 23:05:18 Hexstream, nw, loop is ok 23:05:23 thx 23:06:33 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:06:39 madnificent: Here's my solution http://paste.lisp.org/display/126786 (no LOOP in sight, but a DO form instead) 23:06:54 -!- toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:10 If I was determined to avoid the extra length call, I could use another layer of nthcdr and then only call length when that was nil. But I don't think I can be bothered. 23:08:13 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 23:09:08 rswarbrick: it is certainly a matter of taste, but i find your version rather hard to understand. 23:09:47 rswarbrick: i'd probably use group and live with the double copy unless i really really need the speed. 23:10:02 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 23:10:05 Oops, I'd forgotten the group function.... :-/ 23:10:13 Meh, I've written it now! 23:10:27 all the good code, to good to be thrown away :) 23:10:57 Hmm, actually, what's the "group" function called. Searching lispdoc is coming up empty... 23:11:17 rswarbrick: it is not a standard function, let me look it up 23:11:41 Ah, never mind then. 23:11:42 Thanks! 23:12:14 rswarbrick: manuels version at http://bl0rg.net/~manuel/schnitt.lisp is pretty similar to yours 23:12:35 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 23:12:35 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-93.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:57 Ah, but he does elements one at once. 23:13:05 Mine is a bit different because I want arrays. 23:13:26 (hence the nthcdr instead of just cdr) 23:13:39 rswarbrick: i'm not trying to argue - i'd just avoid the do and nthcdr in application code. 23:14:19 rswarbrick: so i'd probably use group-by and then create arrays from the lists returned, because that'd be easier to read (taking group-by as a black box) 23:14:25 rswarbrick: but anyway :) 23:14:44 Meh, fair enough. 23:16:15 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:16:18 Well, I couldn't resist it and wrote a version that avoids the length calls. My excuse is that it's in a "utils" file... :-) 23:16:24 (I've added it to the paste above) 23:16:31 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:47 ddp [~ddp@anon-136-131.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:56 -!- ddp [~ddp@anon-136-131.relakks.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:17:10 ddp [~ddp@anon-136-131.relakks.com] has joined #lisp 23:17:48 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 23:17:48 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:18:21 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has joined #lisp 23:19:00 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.167.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:19:13 Heh. And running them both on a long list, they take the same amount of time. It's time for me to go and do something useful :-) 23:22:24 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:46 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:25:08 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:25:09 -!- davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:11 hah 23:25:16 that's what premature optimization does for you 23:25:25 davazp [~user@89.100.226.133] has joined #lisp 23:25:40 :-) 23:26:47 Brucio-39 [~Brucio-39@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:30:14 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:18 never seen a messier function as com-connect of beirc..... 23:30:39 even all the variables are messy 23:33:09 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.186.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:23 couldn't manage to get an auto-connect experience for several channels at once even with a .beirc.lisp file with it 23:33:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:34:17 fantazo [~fantazo@85-127-83-83.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 23:37:10 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002129045125.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:39:03 -!- pavelludiq is now known as pavelpenev 23:39:43 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:40:05 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21A6B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:40:41 -!- MoALTz [~no@188.147.191.80.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:06 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-139-168.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:42:34 francogrex [~user@109.130.17.34] has joined #lisp 23:43:48 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:47:37 pnq [~nick@ACA21A6B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:21 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-111-48.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:49:58 otakutomo [~otakutomo@zaq771a4b1b.zaq.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:56:50 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp