00:00:37 there isn't it. If for portability it's a convention thing that type FOO maps to MAKE-FOO. If protability isn't a question, then find the DD etc. 00:01:58 I regularly give the default constructor a different name, exactly because I want to go through some initialisation process that would exploit make-foo-using-{class,constructor}. 00:02:29 Given that subtypes are already coupled for that generic constructor, the convention is probably also in the realm of the original author 00:03:48 If you don't want people to call make-subtype directly, make the convention be allocate-subtype for example 00:05:49 at this point it's a matter of reading/writing 'foo or 'allocate-foo (: 00:06:19 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 00:06:29 well it's more that -using-class is preexisting CLOS / MOP style 00:06:53 but yes, that's it all 00:07:03 -!- iDespera` [~user@120.85.227.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:08:06 is land of lisp a good book? 00:08:27 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:36 xb 00:09:11 chromaticwt: what's your background? 00:11:05 I'm reading sicp 00:11:46 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-79-6.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:11:54 tcr: true. I just don't like the symbol concatenation part much. 00:15:00 timack [~timack@hlfx60-2a-194.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 00:20:55 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@12.208.167.194] has quit [Quit: Nodding off now.] 00:21:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.35.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:22:05 *Xach* is a little sad that nobody used zcdb for anything serious 00:22:13 tcr: ? 00:22:14 :) 00:22:41 chromaticwt: I haven't read land of lisp; I read Practical Common Lisp after SICP. 00:23:38 chromaticwt: SICP is a very good book. You should just keep in mind that it's not really about Lisp, and that expression iteration via recursion is neat from a reductionist point of view, but in reality you should express iteration as iteration. 00:24:38 Practical Common Lisp is very good except for lack of exercises. I suggest to tackle some open source project and read through it code after you read through PCL once, then reading through code with PCL side-by-side and also getting acquainted with CLHS on the same time. 00:24:47 That approach worked for me. YMMV. 00:27:09 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:27:24 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:59 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:34:59 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.50] has joined #lisp 00:37:01 -!- Brendan_T is now known as brendn 00:37:51 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:38:50 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-183-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:53 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 00:40:21 tcr: does common lisp have while/for loops or anything like that? 00:40:33 with scheme I'm just using recursive functions 00:41:21 it has LOOP, DO, and friends 00:42:51 chromaticwt: (loop while do ) 00:43:40 LOOP is really complicated 00:43:46 so you think that loop would be better than recursive calls for iteration? 00:44:07 you'll get a briefer and usually better representation with loop 00:44:51 chromaticwt: It depends on the task at hand. 00:45:08 zenlunatic_ [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:45:27 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:45:54 -!- zenlunatic_ is now known as zenlunatic 00:46:06 gigamonkey: I never did get manifest to do the fancy QL stuff in either upstream or my modified version with internal 00:46:33 tensorpudding: iteration is a very important construct. yes, loop is rather complex, but it handles complex stuff for you. a slightly lispier version (though not necessarily less complex) is iterate (an external library) 00:47:37 Why doesn't PATHNAME-MATCH-P match the empty PATHNAME-NAME? e.g. (pathname-match-p #P"/home/foo/dir/*.ext" #P"/home/foo/dir/.ext") 00:47:42 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: Heaven isnt a place, Bartleby, it's being with people who love you.] 00:50:18 mon_key: (descrie #p".ext") might be informative. 00:50:47 mon_key: namestring parsing is not an area of precise specification. 00:50:53 Xach: describe would be :) 00:50:55 sorry, (describe ...) 00:51:48 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.216.166] has joined #lisp 00:53:07 does lisp have a NaN value 00:53:47 tensorpudding: implementation specific. SBCL has double and single float NaNs 00:54:06 how do you access them? 00:55:12 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:55:38 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.216.166] has quit [Client Quit] 00:55:39 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA01D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:58:08 tensorpudding: I don't know that there are constants for them. On OS X, you can just (/ 0d0 0d0); elsewhere, you might have to change the trap mask. You can also create them directly from bit patterns with sb-int:make-{single,double}-float, but that's a hack. 00:58:47 -!- Neban [~neban@130.Red-83-33-84.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:00:19 doing that (/ 0.0 0.0) does not work, nor does what you wrote, in both cases it signals an error 01:00:27 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:01:05 that's sb-kernel:m-{s,d}-f 01:01:47 The spec for TRANSLATE-PATHNAME mentions that implementations could extend wildcard features to include regular-expressions -- are they any examples of imlementations which do/did for POSIX regexes? 01:06:24 mon_key: I haven't heard of anything like that. 01:09:20 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:09:20 Xach: just curious. Seems like a potentially useful feature - though one that is prob. easy to do wrong hand hard to get right as well... 01:10:26 Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:24 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 01:16:48 -!- behrat [~Adium@c-50-129-134-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:17:50 behrat1 [~Adium@c-50-129-134-190.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:07 -!- blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:26:33 Taslem [40e9e315@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.233.227.21] has joined #lisp 01:30:08 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:30:28 cosman246_ [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 01:30:40 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:32:33 -!- cosman246_ is now known 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[Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:53:33 Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has joined #lisp 03:59:51 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:13 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.119] has joined #lisp 04:03:38 -!- teggi [148b9232@gateway/web/freenode/ip.20.139.146.50] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:09:14 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 04:11:17 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:17:06 evening 04:19:58 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:32 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:51 tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.134.159] has joined #lisp 04:22:31 saschakb` [~saschakb@p4FEA0A1C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:26:12 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA01D0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:27:40 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-214-90.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:31:55 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:34:52 beslyrus: only in some timezones 04:36:59 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 04:39:13 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.75] has joined #lisp 04:39:13 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.75] has quit [Changing host] 04:39:13 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:41:19 Arsonide [~Arsonide@99-152-148-99.lightspeed.ftwotx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:44 Alrighty, I finally got my netbook hooked up with Ubuntu, Slime, emacs, the works. I'm staring at a fresh slime REPL now. 04:42:16 There were two features I'm supposed to enable to make lisp programming easier, one involved parenthesis, and one involved auto indentation of nested parenthesis, anybody know how I enable these two things? 04:42:26 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has joined #lisp 04:42:29 paredit? 04:43:00 yes I believe that was one of them. 04:43:18 I don't want to touch anything for fear of breaking it and having to reformat again 04:43:20 lol 04:43:27 -!- Forty-3 [~kvirc@pool-96-255-130-204.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Rebooting] 04:44:18 Also I have another odd question. At the top it says it's on a port, and at the bottom it says "Connected." Is this on the network for some reason? 04:44:29 as for automatic indentation, i have reindent-then-newline-and-indent bound on RET 04:44:55 i got both of them from the emacs starter kit 04:45:07 Arsonide: you can use slime over a network. 04:45:36 slime starts a server called swank, which can be bound to a tcp port that can be used over a network 04:46:00 there's slime-connect which can connect you to a running swank process 04:46:19 M-x slime creates a new swank process for you and connect to it 04:46:42 I see. 04:46:48 Is parenedit already on? 04:47:08 er paredit 04:47:55 not unless you have it installed 04:49:20 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:51:01 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:31 -!- gko [~gko@114-34-168-13.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:51:49 paredit doesn't come with emacs, you have to get it from packages or something 04:52:03 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[~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35:40 Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has joined #lisp 07:36:08 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:36:10 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:22 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has joined #lisp 07:40:23 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-148-196.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:40:35 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.113.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:40:56 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-148-151.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:42:39 eat-a-kibble [~kristerfl@c71695AC1.dhcp.bluecom.no] has joined #lisp 07:46:18 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:46:39 accel [~accel@unaffiliated/accel] has joined #lisp 07:46:45 before I get kicked; this is a geniune question: 07:47:14 I am interested in implementing something like clim on top of clojure. I am aware of http://www.cliki.net/CLIM ; but was wondering if there is a definitive resources ont he implementation + api of CLIM. Thanks! 07:47:24 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-89.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:45 i.e. I feel like im staring at a buch of tutorials/guides 07:47:47 accel: http://bauhh.dyndns.org:8000/clim-spec/index.html 07:47:50 but what I really want, are the principles/axioms of clim 07:48:38 H4ns: nice; thanks 07:51:43 -!- Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:52:00 Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has joined #lisp 07:52:48 -!- markski1beck [~Mark@iammark.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:53:07 -!- dys`` is now known as dys 07:56:05 markski1beck [~Mark@iammark.us] has joined #lisp 07:57:50 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-146-189.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 07:58:14 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:38 sylecn` [~sylecn@207.7.149.23] has joined #lisp 07:59:39 -!- sylecn` [~sylecn@207.7.149.23] has left #lisp 08:00:53 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@180.120.25.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 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xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.1.50] has left #lisp 10:09:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10:51 zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@218.20.38.1] has joined #lisp 10:14:23 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:15:54 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 10:17:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:18:27 moah [~gnu@dslb-092-073-069-205.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:28 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:18:48 steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:18 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:19:55 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 10:23:00 Hi, I'm a little confused by the different limit between compile and interpretor. e.g (setf tmp 1) always ok in slime C-x C-e, but fails when C-c C-k when there are neither let nor defparameters. So all practical develop works should be same as compile level limitations? 10:25:19 chenbing: yes, if interpret your right. sometimes, it is handy not to have to declare variables in the repl. in real programs, you always have to, though. 10:25:33 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:26:02 chenbing: and always put asterisks around special variables (like *tmp*) 10:27:36 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 10:27:48 -!- Whitesqu_ is now known as Whitesquall 10:30:07 :-) I'm not disappointed at least interpret debug is convient 10:33:18 daniel__2 [~daniel@p5B32636F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:28 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A164.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:35:44 -!- zhangkaizhao [~zhangkaiz@218.20.38.1] has left #lisp 10:36:21 -!- chenbing [~user@125.118.5.125] has left #lisp 10:38:57 -!- Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:44:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.138.238] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:09 about the am/pm: section 7 of http://naggum.no/lugm-time.html 10:47:11 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.138.238] has joined #lisp 10:48:49 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:51:18 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:53:23 -!- tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.134.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:00:48 tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.151.214] has joined #lisp 11:02:45 -!- mathslinux [~user@119.255.44.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:04:27 drdo` [~user@89-180-184-254.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 11:06:05 -!- drdo [~user@89.180.180.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06:40 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:07:33 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-zmqyfzptlwnulaqn] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08:08 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:09:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:11:31 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-216-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:14:49 -!- drdo` [~user@89-180-184-254.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:19:24 any recommendations regarding mysql client libraries/ 11:19:25 ? 11:22:26 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111212185108]] 11:22:30 H4ns: I assume "don't" isn't good enough? If not, then I think CLSQL had something, and I think there was one more 11:23:09 p_l: right. i'm looking for some actual experience. 11:23:52 Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@94.242.152.93] has joined #lisp 11:25:07 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.168.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:25:17 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.73] has joined #lisp 11:25:34 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-216-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 11:26:40 the only thing I can help with is that I've talked with people who used CLSQL to support MySQL, but haven't seen anythig else outside of poor pages on cliki and such 11:26:53 ok, thanks :) 11:29:08 LW, I think, has MySQL bindings, though 11:29:16 or at least can call ODBC 11:29:48 i'm using allegro cl right now and that has a mysql library, but it is a bit underwhelming in that it does not support parameter binding. 11:32:50 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:33:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:33:51 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@196-210-142-155.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:52 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:39:15 mon_key` [~user@69.64.7.202] has joined #lisp 11:41:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.138.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:43:48 -!- mon_key` [~user@69.64.7.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:49:28 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 11:55:00 ``Erik [~erik@BRLCAD.ORG] has joined #lisp 11:56:33 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 11:56:47 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-103-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:53 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-205-86.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 12:04:21 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 12:04:56 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:24 chenbing [~user@115.192.192.247] has joined #lisp 12:07:46 -!- tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:09:14 tltstc [~tltstc@cpe-76-90-95-39.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:11:43 KDr2 [~KDr2@123.120.154.10] has joined #lisp 12:12:21 -!- KDr2 [~KDr2@123.120.154.10] has left #lisp 12:12:47 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 12:13:38 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-89.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:39 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:18:01 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 12:18:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 12:18:01 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 12:19:45 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.93] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:22:13 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:25:15 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-026.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:31:56 ugh 12:34:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-026.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:32 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-026.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:47:02 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:51:06 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-146-189.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:13 Neban [~neban@216.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:55:32 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 12:56:03 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 12:59:17 mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.115] has joined #lisp 13:03:31 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.115] has quit [Client Quit] 13:04:32 gilligan_ [d918cf1a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.24.207.26] has joined #lisp 13:04:35 hi 13:04:42 pnq [~nick@ACA20A72.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:07:34 -!- Neban [~neban@216.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:07:39 *Xach* yawns, stretches, feels the excitement 13:10:00 aloha 13:10:29 Neban [~neban@216.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:55 *evenson`* catches the wave of enthusiasm. 13:11:04 sylecn [~sylecn@207.7.149.23] has joined #lisp 13:12:23 hey, I'm back. What more do you want? 13:12:48 Welcome! 13:13:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-21.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:18 i want everything 13:16:59 and a pony! 13:17:03 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 13:17:30 a little pony 13:19:28 omg, ponies? which channel is this? 13:19:48 its "ponies with lisp" channel 13:20:57 by the way i start to fell confident with lisp to be able to explore some libraries, anyone here messing with lisp and opengl ? 13:21:10 is the NeHe tutorial the best source to start from ? 13:22:04 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-42-157-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: quit?] 13:23:36 kilon: 3b has written a tutorial that is good 13:23:57 http://3bb.cc/tutorials/cl-opengl/ has them 13:25:05 -!- Neban [~neban@216.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Neban] 13:26:18 -!- tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.151.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:26:43 thanks 13:27:12 anyone knows a good way to share bookmarks online ? 13:28:55 kilon: I quite like pinboard.in 13:29:10 it is how i found that link so quickly 13:29:21 *Xach* has it indexed under "opengl" and "lisp" 13:29:27 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:30:33 its not free 13:30:58 Indeed it isn't. 13:31:02 kilon: you asked for "good", not "free" 13:31:12 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:31:20 The price goes up over time, too. 13:31:30 no problem i just emailed myself the link :D 13:35:34 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:37:15 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:38:56 Demosthenes [~demo@mb00436d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:47 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@207.7.149.23] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:09 knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:38 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.131] has joined #lisp 13:46:11 Xach is full of spirit of entrepreneurship:D 13:47:36 Question about the zip library. Can I easily change the content of a zip file by doing something similar to this: (write-the-zip-file-to-diskw (options) (with-zipfile (zip "path") return-modified-content-of-the-zip-file)) ? 13:48:20 The documentation was a bit hard to understand. 13:50:46 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-46-199.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 13:51:25 I'm not certain whether it is suit for you http://www.siftsoft.com/zipput.html 13:52:09 tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.151.214] has joined #lisp 13:52:34 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mb00436d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:54:08 why would someone write a lisp compiler in lisp? besides fun 13:54:36 kingofspain: why would someone write a lisp compiler in another language? 13:55:01 what other language would would you write a compiler in? assembler? machinecode? 13:55:13 kingofspain: Common Lisp is a very good language for writing things. 13:55:14 kingofspain: assemblers were written in assembler, too 13:55:24 or, why would you write a C compiler in ?c? 13:55:40 Hello eMBee 13:55:54 flip214: why would they do that.. 13:55:59 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:56:06 besides, the only language that lisp originally could have been written was what? fortran? 13:56:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-168.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:29 kingofspain: can you elaborate your question? we don't understand it the way you asked it. 13:56:38 i am actually thinking writing not a compiler per se , but a DSL that will simplify lisp yet not hide it from the user 13:56:41 *eMBee* bows to chenbing 13:56:49 ok, if you are using lisp, then you already have a lisp compiler right? 13:56:56 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:56:59 oh, how to do an action in erc-mode? 13:56:59 kingofspain: correct. 13:57:02 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has joined #lisp 13:57:24 * test? 13:57:31 and if you have a lisp that compiles to ruby byte code or something, then you can use those libraries 13:57:52 anyone knows if such DSL exist ? simplification of lisp without denying access to lisp ? 13:57:52 kingofspain: also true. if you want that. 13:58:07 kilon: what do you mean by "simplification"? 13:58:31 good question 13:58:34 :D 13:58:55 for example an easier way to do cdr car etc 13:58:56 kilon: are you thinking of utility functions thatr simplify some actions? 13:59:09 kilon: what would be easier? 13:59:22 silenius [~silenius@i59F715A0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:59:23 x[-1] ? 13:59:31 x[+3] ? 13:59:35 nth? 13:59:45 kilon: if you want ruby, use ruby. 14:00:01 ruby wont let me do lisp 14:00:10 kilon: x[-1] is not lisp. 14:00:15 mix its code with lisp 14:00:36 i though lisp could be everything syntax wise 14:01:19 kilon: i'd suggest that you learn lisp now. 14:01:28 I am actually thinking in designing a language that will be a bridge between python kind of syntax and lisp 14:01:32 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:01:39 this is one of the goals of my project 14:02:14 I am not looking in removing parentheses by the way 14:02:18 i think you should get comfortable with lisp syntax first 14:02:30 yes i meant in the long run not now 14:03:04 the interesting question will be wheter you'll still want to add python syntax once you are comfortable with lisp 14:03:26 *eMBee* is rather interested oin the opposite, write python with lisp syntax 14:03:35 i want to design a visual programming language that also allows for text coding targeting at non coders and also allow for pure lisp coding too 14:04:02 kilon: many have attempted that. good luck 14:04:23 thanks will need it :D 14:04:33 kilon: you mean like etoys for adults? 14:04:37 nope 14:04:56 i dont want to hide lisp from the user 14:05:11 and yes etoys is similar to what i want 14:05:20 etyoys doesn't hide smalltalk, the code is there at the press of a button, you can easely look at it 14:05:34 sorry i was thinking scratch 14:05:41 ah, heh 14:05:44 yes etoys 14:06:08 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:41 eMBee: now that i think of it , i dont think etoys allows for smalltalk programming by default 14:07:43 johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-39-151-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:12 i mean etoys the product, not etoys the library 14:09:34 H4ns: can you point me to previous fail attempts, i would like to see what people have accomplished even though not completed 14:10:43 Neban [~neban@216.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:47 kilon: no, it is usually just lisp beginners going off like, "omg this is fucking great we'll own the world" etc. i had a co-worker who secretly developed "the next logical extension of lisp", which supposedly was graphical too. he did it secretly for a long time. 14:11:06 kilon: but then he stopped talking about it and refused to give me details, so i stopped asking. 14:12:08 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@adsl-99-39-151-16.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:12:26 kilon: it does on the etoys versions i worked with 14:12:54 eMBee: it does not, now i am playing with it, it only allows for very limited scripting of morphs 14:13:36 H4ns: i dont want to own the world, i want lisp to own the world , thus the purpose of my project to make lisp more accessible to people 14:14:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-148-151.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:25 oh, ok, i thought you had full access to smalltalk in thhere, anyways, i was talking about the concept, not the exact implementation 14:15:01 you'll notice eToys doesn't own the world 14:15:09 well it is squeak underneath so technically you can change the setup files and so enable the entire functionality , but not that an average user will know how to do that 14:15:39 dlowe: what does ? ;) 14:15:59 kilon: C and cobol 14:16:23 that could be be because etoys is for kids. 14:16:27 as i said my goal is only to simplify not limit, if the user want to use lisp then user will be able to lisp and my language , if you call it language it will still be lisp 14:16:35 -!- gilligan_ [d918cf1a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.217.24.207.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:16:39 kilon: in which way do you want Lisp to be more accesible? 14:16:42 kilon: have you looked at opendylan? 14:16:56 dlowe: so we need a killer c compiler written in lisp 14:17:07 Neban: i am not so sure yet, because i want first to be more familiar with lisp 14:17:07 eMBee: ZetaC 14:17:14 dlowe: thanks 14:17:46 eMBee: that's actually a really funny idea 14:17:52 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:57 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 14:18:03 would make groveling easier, that's for sure 14:18:18 groveling? 14:18:36 analysis of header files to automatically generate language bindings 14:19:52 ah 14:20:13 dlowe: from what i am seeing very briefly opendylan does not follow lisp syntax which is something i dont want 14:20:21 indeed 14:20:42 we've thought about adding a prefix syntax reader. 14:20:46 *eMBee* has a hard time finding links on ZetaC 14:21:12 i want my language to mix with lisp code 14:21:17 and support all lisp libraries 14:21:19 eMBee: http://www.cliki.net/Zeta-C 14:21:44 *evenson`* hates the term "social media". 14:22:23 kilon: it does "under the hood" 14:22:58 kilon: all common lisp libraries? 14:23:00 dlowe: i want the user to be able to write my language and lisp in the same text file 14:23:14 yes clisp compliant 100% 14:23:29 kilon: it is common lisp. 14:23:37 that is why i was thinking more to make some macro that simplify specific areas of lisp 14:23:49 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:23:55 kilon: Ah, well you see. We've already got one. Is very nice. 14:24:08 H4ns: does it allow you to mix it with clisp in the same file ? 14:24:11 kilon: and really, you should learn it first before you attempt to "improve" it. you'll find that it is much harder than it sounds. 14:24:18 kilon: COMMON FUCKING LISP 14:24:24 i dont want to improve it 14:24:26 :_ 14:24:28 ;) 14:24:49 kilon: ah, ok, if you want to make it worse, it'll be very easy. 14:24:50 H4ns: i mean opendylan with clips 14:25:01 clips? what is that now? 14:25:12 can i mix in the same source file opendylan with clisp ? 14:25:13 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has left #lisp 14:25:22 *H4ns* cries 14:25:36 kilon: we eagerly await the announcement of your new language 14:25:47 i know that opendylan is written is lisp 14:25:52 dlowe: you may be eagerly waiting. i am not. 14:25:52 *in 14:26:02 kilon: it isn't. it is written in Dylan. 14:26:16 H4ns: I'm eagerly waiting for some actual code instead of a bunch of wasted gs 14:26:18 gas 14:26:22 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:34 ArmyOfBruce: ok 14:26:47 kilon: stop thinking, start doing. 14:27:08 i am not changing lisp in anyway, i dont think you understand what i am saying 14:27:18 i am only offering a transition layer 14:27:34 kilon: where's the transition layer? 14:27:39 kilon: can I download it? 14:27:52 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 14:27:52 *Xach* is most frustrated by the apparent inability to accept corrective input 14:27:56 you will be able to yes that the goal 14:28:10 kilon: so right now, you have nothing to actually offer, right? 14:28:20 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 14:28:29 sure i have loads and load of vaporware :D 14:28:47 kilon: and you're talking about it... why? 14:29:09 i am asking if there is anything similar 14:29:16 out there 14:29:18 Neban: thanks 14:29:37 kilon: there isn't. Most people eventually decide during their project that they like CL the way it is 14:29:53 or that they don't like CL and they leave it 14:30:00 dlowe: so do I 14:30:18 kilon: so get workin 14:30:38 thats what i already do 14:30:44 we'll be here to answer any questions not covered by google or the clhs 14:31:16 ok thanks, sorry if i touched a sensitive subject 14:31:43 kilon: honestly, you don't know CL well enough yet to say "hmm, I think I'd have done this better..." 14:31:47 see you in an hour 14:31:53 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 14:31:54 Phoodus: no i do not 14:31:56 once you get the full picture, yes, there are some things that can be said in that vein 14:32:01 that is why this is a moving target 14:32:16 teggi [~teggi@123.21.164.107] has joined #lisp 14:32:20 see you later guys 14:32:22 -!- kilon [~thekilon@178.59.17.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:32:29 and as you try to invent things that are expressed differently than lisp, but still "lisp-like", you'll just end up back at lisp 14:32:51 *dlowe* hopes that he returns with some actual code written 14:33:09 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 14:33:14 Greetings lispers 14:33:18 hello 14:34:13 Phoodus: at least it's fun to try, until you notice it's already on CL with another name or there is a pretty good reason not to have it. 14:34:41 yep, or that CL already does something in a better but different way than what you're trying 14:36:47 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:26 sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:59 different forms of learning 14:38:03 As a beginner, I think one of the most interesting things on CL (or Scheme) is that. I mean, understanding the decisions behind the features. 14:38:53 In any case, everyone reinvented his/her Lisp dialect at some point anyway. 14:39:38 *Xach* is reminded of "Reinvention and revolution are enthusiast stuff. Invention and evolution are engineering." 14:39:53 I don't know about "Lisp dialect", but I always tended to add repl-like features to other languages 14:39:59 heh 14:40:13 even if not on the order of creating definitions, but just to be able to interact with the code more directly 14:40:28 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-3-80.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:40:52 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:41:17 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:41:46 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:41:53 dylan looks interesting. the lisp heritage is recognizable 14:43:24 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-148-151.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:45:03 -!- Utkarsh [~quassel@li118-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 14:45:26 Utkarsh [~quassel@li118-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:45:34 Xach: if so, only because engineers are getting paid to just do a job, and "enthusiasts" are doing something purely on inspiration 14:46:52 evolution on the revolutionary happens all the time 14:47:04 oGMo: "just"? 14:47:11 Xach: yes, just 14:47:39 fulfill someone else's purpose rather than "just" masturbate? 14:47:42 oGMo: Do you think that means it is less valuable as a result? 14:47:43 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:09 Xach: it often has less value than it _could_ have 14:48:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 14:48:44 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-196-193.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:48:49 I find bridges and other heavily-used public works pretty interesting, especially when they must be replaced or repaired without completely shutting down traffic. 14:49:04 Xach: and given the need to fulfill a task, evolving something existing is preferred---often rightly so 14:49:10 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:28 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.119] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:44 Blowing up a bridge to start again because you didn't understand the factors that led to the design and structure of the old one isn't really an option. 14:49:48 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.80.119] has joined #lisp 14:50:04 well, at that point, everything is evolutionary 14:50:16 -!- tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.151.214] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:50:18 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 14:51:21 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:51:35 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:52:17 tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.137.111] has joined #lisp 14:53:50 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:56:47 XPherior [~Mike@pool-74-97-83-160.sctnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:57:13 Is there a list function to get all of the elements of a list except the last? Sort of like a "but-last" function? 14:57:44 *Xach* slaps forehead 14:57:49 XPherior: the obscurely named "butlast" function 14:57:49 XPherior: you mean, like cl:butlast? 14:58:14 Precisely. Wonder why there's no dash. 14:58:18 Hmph. Thanks though! 14:59:23 tali713` [~tali713@c-75-72-193-140.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:18 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 15:03:45 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 15:04:08 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20A72.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:04:22 naiv [~naiv@AAnnecy-651-1-62-87.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:06:39 -!- XPherior [~Mike@pool-74-97-83-160.sctnpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:06:47 -!- Neban [~neban@216.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:06:53 pnq [~nick@ACA20A72.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:23 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.26.192] has joined #lisp 15:09:41 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:33 oGMo: No. Evolution is making small mutations to existing designs, and see what works. Startingover from the start is not evolutionary, it's idiocy. 15:11:47 pjb: so there's no case in which starting over is not idiocy? 15:12:39 Well, if all your creation is wicked, you can envisage a deluge and start over, but even in that case, some old genes were carried over. 15:13:12 pjb: The exception in LW generated while compiling TEA was a LW bug. Do you want half the bounty? ;-) 15:13:35 No need. 15:13:51 -!- tabb0t [~tabb0t@117.196.137.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:14:08 pjb: I'm kidding, they only provide a patch to use until the next release. 15:14:28 pjb: so what's starting over? starting from sand and redesigning computing, or simply making something new when something existing was not sufficient? 15:14:41 ThomasH: there's the eternal fame, too 15:15:15 something is always carried over, even if it's the experience of what not to do 15:15:54 Xach: I'm starting to think that software companies should offer some sort of bounty. It incentivizes people to submit bug report as well as incentivizes teh companies to improve pre-release testing. 15:15:59 Neban [~neban@216.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:18 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:16:28 ThomasH: usually, they do provide a bounty. Negative. 15:17:03 pjb: Are you alluding to companies that persecute security researchers? 15:17:09 Yes. 15:17:25 And even Microsoft, since to report a bug, you must buy support. 15:18:20 pjb: Yeah, I always find very obscene when a security researcher is attacked. In most cases, they've even privately notified the company of the flaw. 15:18:34 Prior to public release. 15:18:40 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-180-118.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:19:21 pjb: I don't have MS support, just licensed copies. They are frequently prompting me to submit bug reports. 15:20:08 Well my experience with Microsoft was more than twenty years old. I've not tried their product ever since. 15:20:14 -!- evenson` [~user@213.33.70.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 15:21:15 pjb: Ah. I'm working towards the day where I can support my clients without MS, not there yet. 15:21:33 You have to choose your clients. 15:22:37 pjb: I'm not that good. 15:23:52 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.215.215] has quit [Quit: marsell] 15:25:20 back 15:27:07 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.171] has joined #lisp 15:27:07 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.171] has quit [Changing host] 15:27:07 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 15:27:17 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-46-199.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:28:03 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:40 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 15:29:21 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 15:29:49 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:32:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:32:38 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:33:33 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 15:39:34 question time : I have not seen yet an article for live coding in clisp especially with slime , i have read the manual of slime, not all of it, but i would like also a tutorial that focus on the subject, any suggestions ? 15:40:02 kilon: we call it common lisp. can i suggest that you do, too? 15:40:48 sure you can 15:41:04 kilon: There's a video tutorial of Slime. 15:41:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-180-225-146.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:25 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:42:12 Kvaks: if you mean the video tutorial on slime website I have watched , but if I understand well, it concetrates more on how to communicate with a distant lisp compiler than how to do live coding 15:42:29 kilon: What do you mean by live coding? 15:42:42 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:42:55 kilon: NM, I WP it 15:42:58 by live coding I mean the process in which you got a programm running and you change it while it run 15:43:09 cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-203-58.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:10 without stoping it 15:44:08 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:44:22 that's pretty simple. As long as a function isn't in the current call stack, you can recompile it without much trouble 15:44:27 kilon: That is common lisp. 15:44:31 just don't change interfaces 15:45:02 kilon: the primary program is the Common Lisp environment. 15:45:14 even if you change interfaces, sbcl asks if you want to replace/invalidate the things that use the old interface 15:45:31 kilon: Another example is getting an error, modifying the offending function, and then choosing to continue from the error by calling the function again. 15:46:02 ok, lets take this step by step because the book I have read don't explain it so far. 15:46:16 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:46:21 is common lisp run on a VM ? 15:46:45 kilon: No. 15:47:08 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:47:09 kilon: it does in clisp, I think. Not any other implementations, though 15:47:13 ThomasH: yes I have played with the debugger if that is what you mean, but I need to play alot more with it 15:47:58 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 15:48:04 ok if there is no VM then what it compiles to ? 15:48:11 kilon: machine language 15:48:29 also if recompile wont that stop the execution of my programm ? 15:48:35 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20A72.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:48:36 kilon: no, it's clever 15:48:54 well, it will pause it while it's compiling 15:49:18 really ? very interesting 15:49:34 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:49:36 or maybe not. A compilation in another thread wouldn't 15:49:42 are you sure it just pause it and not restarting it ? 15:49:46 idn't that the same in squeak? 15:49:54 isn't 15:50:03 kilon: Positively. 15:50:11 kilon: maybe you should just try it instead 15:50:25 yes I should 15:50:51 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:50:53 eMBee: in smalltalk yes you are allowed to change object while they run 15:51:02 Is anyone here who worked on NST? 15:51:09 kilon: and try the disassemble function while you're at it 15:51:38 dlowe: I heard about disassable, does that mean it shows assembly code ? 15:51:55 kilon: will you just freakin try it? 15:51:59 or just it converts compiled lisp code to text lisp code ? 15:52:04 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111212185108]] 15:52:14 dlowe: it seems useless. 15:52:15 ok 15:52:39 here we go, if you see an explosion it will be me messing up 15:53:06 Or riots in the streets. 15:53:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:54:08 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:54:48 If anyone here does work on NST or uses it, I'd like to improve the process checker to accept arbitrary forms to run with the compound criteria 15:55:02 Was looking to see if anyone was going to hate on the idea 15:58:23 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:59:32 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128247143.mbb.telenor.dk] has joined #lisp 16:01:40 drdo` [~user@89.180.184.149] has joined #lisp 16:03:20 aho, a good description of "freakin" from urbandict 16:04:07 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.123.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:04:46 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 16:05:38 Is cl-irc usuable? The "latest" archive is dated 2007. I don't imagine that anything significant has changed in the IRC protocol. 16:06:16 kilon: well, objects per se wouldn't be running. the member functions would be though. you probably can't change a function while it is running, but either interrupt it or it gets replaced on the next call. something similar i suppose is happening in lisp 16:06:33 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:06:43 The cl-irc version in quicklisp indicates an svn data of 2010. 16:07:21 eMBee: hmm I am not sure, the debugger however allow you to change code on an error, that I have tried 16:07:22 ThomasH: that's partly because quicklisp itself started in 2010 16:07:28 and continue the execution 16:07:40 ThomasH: 2010-10-07 was the first snapshot, i think. 16:08:39 ThomasH: I've used it without any problems. 16:08:40 Xach: Ok, so that is the date of the svn co, not necessarily reflecting any changes. 16:09:18 Xach: I just did some house cleaning on lisp-unit and tagged it version 0.7.0, does that help with the quicklisp release information? 16:09:24 daimrod: Thanks. 16:09:27 kilon: can you paste the things you tried? i am curious to take a look, have not tried that myself 16:09:44 ThomasH: it does if someone (like you) says "please use 0.7.0 for quicklisp instead of the head of development" 16:09:49 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 ok I did it ! I froze emacs , lol, I told you :D 16:10:20 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 16:10:54 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:12:11 damn its completely frozen I have to force quit it. eMBee I dont keep my code, I was doing mere test, but its standard behaviour when there is an erro the debugger pops up and give you several option , go over the error, correct the error from inside the debugger and some other options 16:12:22 Xach: Ok, right now 0.7.0 is the head. What is the correct way to notify you of the version to use. 16:12:26 ? 16:12:37 ThomasH: opening a github issue is the easiest thing for me 16:13:20 Xach: Will do that. Is that the way to get a new library included as well? 16:15:57 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:16:10 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has left #lisp 16:16:12 Same deal. 16:16:14 kilon: ys, i just haven't yet managed to get into a situation where i'd be able to continue after changing code, or rather, i have not managed to recognize a situation where changing the code of a function would allow me to continue 16:16:27 n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@adsl-90-150-18-195.muravlenko.ru] has joined #lisp 16:16:50 Hy guys. 16:17:13 Is it possible to build a shared lib from a CL code? 16:17:14 Greetings n1tn4tsn0k. 16:17:30 To use it in program in C for example. 16:17:34 n1tn4tsn0k: I think that is implementation dependent. 16:17:52 n1tn4tsn0k: I think ECL can do that. 16:17:54 n1tn4tsn0k: it is implementation dependend. i know that allegro cl, lispworks and ecl support it. 16:17:59 I'm looking for any impl that can do it. :) 16:18:13 Thank you. 16:18:41 I'll try ecl at first i think. 16:19:12 n1tn4tsn0k: ECL expands to "Embeddable Common Lisp", so yeah :) 16:20:03 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-sfsgyasilgfqxnmc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:09 Oh I see. 16:20:12 Nice.) 16:20:32 dev-lisp/ecls 16:20:40 Is this similar to elc ? 16:20:44 * ecl 16:20:51 that's ECL, probably 16:21:19 ECLS is another name ECL uses 16:21:30 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:21:31 http://ecls.sourceforge.net/ 16:21:42 Ok. 16:24:41 Noctifer [~Noctifer@82.113.106.5] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@002128247143.mbb.telenor.dk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:26:28 -!- Neban [~neban@216.Red-88-18-195.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:01 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:28:32 kilon: You can provide a restart to restart a function at some point, or use (debug 2) to restart a frame from sldb. 16:28:48 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has left #lisp 16:29:23 -!- Noctifer [~Noctifer@82.113.106.5] has left #lisp 16:29:32 eMBee: i just tried in squeak and it worked 16:30:24 tried what? change a function? of course :-) 16:30:28 daimrod: thanks I have read of restarts will test that too 16:31:57 eMBee: yes , I made a Class with a something method and a instance variable xin, inside the method i did xin:=10+5y it accepted it but when in workspace i create an instance and called something it pop the debugger then i clicked debug clicked then on the error method , change it, accept it and the proceed and all was ok 16:32:49 *eMBee* nods 16:33:10 this is the kind of functionality i am in lisp, so now will excuse me to return back to slime to see how it works 16:33:11 *eMBee* recalls that from the smalltalk tutorial he was doing 16:33:23 *I am looking for 16:33:38 -!- nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:50 tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:33:51 -!- tcr [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:05 tensorpudding [~michael@99.56.169.114] has joined #lisp 16:34:29 sacho [~sacho@90-154-145-134.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 16:35:02 Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 16:35:05 kilon: Methods are not part of classes in Common Lisp. 16:35:28 oh nice disassembler works great 16:35:51 xach: the concept of changing a function like that would still be the same. just instead of beiung inside a class it is global 16:36:04 Xach: really ? oh wait I have read that too 16:36:06 being 16:36:52 is there a way to play with disassembler , change lisp code in machine level ? 16:37:42 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:20 kilon: implementation-specific. 16:38:33 -!- rtoyg [chatzilla@nat/google/x-mwmumdtmgmcuymwr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:13 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-109-64-203-58.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:39:13 fair enough, too powerful for my level of skill anyway, I am using CCL by the way , Clozure CL 16:40:07 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 16:40:21 cmm [~cmm@109.64.203.58] has joined #lisp 16:41:09 slime/emacs froze again :( 16:41:58 kilon: That's surprising. 16:42:42 ThomasH: I did (defun add1(x)(1+ x)) , compile file , ok , disassemble ok 16:43:07 then in next line , (add1(10)) , compile file, frozen 16:43:36 kilon: Look for an error buffer 16:43:37 cant click inside window, cannot close emacs , only force quit works 16:43:57 cant change buffers 16:44:14 then menu opens but does not execute 16:44:39 Probably time to give up. 16:44:59 blizzack [~blizzack@216.112.106.207.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:19 never, love your company Xach 16:45:23 :D 16:45:36 kilon: Not cute, just annoying. 16:45:55 You are a doofus with a broken computer setup. 16:45:58 (add1(10)) is incorrect 16:45:58 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:46:17 (but shouldn't froze emacs) 16:46:40 will look at console for an error report 16:46:42 it's reasonably easy to freeze emacs, particularly so if you're new and haven't learnt what tends to do it 16:46:59 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:47:11 C-g sometimes manages to escape from the problem, but blocking on sockets is almost the canonical "dammit who stole my emacs" case 16:47:30 it's not for nothing that people say that they have one emacs session for gnus, one for erc, and one for working 16:47:43 found it 16:47:46 12/16/11 6:09:03.673 PM Emacs: kCGErrorIllegalArgument: CGSSetWindowTransformAtPlacement: Failed 16:48:23 kilon: You're doing this completely wrong. You need to spend some time familiarizing yourself with how to use slime+emacs. 16:48:40 nuba [~nuba@pauleira.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:57 ThomasH: i dont think this my fault , its clearly a bug with slime / emacs on Lion 16:49:49 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 16:50:10 kilon: In a roundabout way it is. I can understand having the defun in a file, but you should be calling it from the REPL. Also, no need to compile file, you can just compile the form in the buffer. 16:50:12 kilon: don't get discouraged; things will always seem harder at first than they do in the end. On the other hand, don't abuse the patience of people here; you have to demonstrate that you're investing significant time and effort before people here will be sympathetic to you 16:51:15 kilon: If you were more familiar with the correct/efficient way to use slime/emacs, you'd be less likely to encounter strange behavior/bugs. 16:51:55 ThomasH: one becomes familiar with emacs through imprecations 16:51:59 Kryztof: I am not here to make friends, or enemies, I am here just looking for guidence and I am investing already a good deal of time in it, just because I chat with you does not mean that in the same time I am reading or testing 16:52:30 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:35 ThomasH: ok , so what you say is that I should just try not to annoy emacs with weird things as most I can 16:52:38 ThomasH: I still manage to freeze emacs daily, using tramp 16:53:03 kilon: For you explorations in lisp, you need to split screen. Load your file containing your test lisp code in one buffer and keep the REPL in the other buffer. 16:53:19 fe[nl]ix: That's what you get for using tramp. :-P 16:53:40 ThomasH: will do, I did not because it splits the window in case of error anyway 16:53:57 fe[nl]ix: oh yes, tramp, that's another good one 16:54:27 "yes, please block my emacs while you try to retrieve a directory listing from all the way over there" 16:55:20 ThomasH: try not using tramp with a SunOS9 machine, which only has vi 16:55:58 if it is a bug I can avoid, its ok for me 16:56:59 REPL is the inferior-lisp buffer right ? 16:57:15 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:30 tsuru```` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-30-124.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:34 -!- tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-215.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:57:40 No 16:57:54 strange now it does not freeze it open the debugger as expected 16:58:05 *slime-repl ccl* or something similar 16:59:14 fe[nl]ix: Yes, the contortions required to use lisp can be amazing. 17:00:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:00:24 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-242.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:00:30 msponge [~msponge@31-34-17.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 17:00:59 ThomasH: no such buffer in my buffers list . (test1.lisp / inferior-lisp / messages / GNU Emacs / Scratch) thats all i can see, no repl , maybe I should open it manually, or maybe I just need to use SBCL instead, it maybe more reliable 17:01:38 kilon: This isn't a problem with CCL, I'm running it right now to debug your issues. 17:01:54 kilon: I don't think you are actually using slime. 17:02:07 johnstorey [~johnstore@12.208.167.194] has joined #lisp 17:02:14 ThomasH: I think you are right, splitting windows does not let it freeze 17:02:34 ThomasH: I see the SLIME menu 17:03:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:03:21 kilon: It's odd that you don't have a *slime-events* buffer or a *slime-repl ccl* buffer. 17:04:06 ThomasH: In Buffers menu , there is not one 17:04:32 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@178-83-229-138.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:58 kilon: I see the *slime-repl ccl* buffer in my buffers menu. But, I'm on winders and may not be using the same version of Emacs+slime. 17:04:58 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:10 and when I choose "List all buffers" there is also a slime-event 17:05:57 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:06:11 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 17:06:11 I am on macos Lion , I think I am using the latest version of GNU Emacs, CCL and slime (source tarball) 17:07:25 kilon: Ok. I can't debug your setup in any further detail given that I'm not on that platform. Are you new to emacs in addition to CL? 17:07:37 having a *slime-repl ccl* depends on having set up slime with the slime-repl contrib, which is not the default configuration 17:07:43 Neban [~neban@3.Red-83-33-82.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:43 yes very fresh 17:07:56 Kryztof: Ugh, yeah, I forget that. 17:08:10 I have added only 3 lines in an empty .emacs 17:08:31 so my .emacs file is a 3 line setup, far far from sophisticated 17:09:05 kilon: Add the line (slime-setup '(slime-repl)), that will enable the REPL. 17:09:21 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:52 kilon: You really can't learn/explore lisp without the REPL. 17:10:09 kilon: For that matter, you're not really using lisp if you're not using the REPL. 17:10:25 *taking advantage of lisp* 17:11:03 repl is a interactive console similar to python prompt ? thanks for the help 17:11:09 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.21.164.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:22 kilon: Yes, Read Eval Print Loop. 17:11:23 allowing you execute a line of lisp code per time 17:11:27 yes 17:11:54 kilon: Allowing you to execute any size lisp form, really. 17:12:01 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:12:17 ah yes of course, there is no concept of line in lisps only parentheses 17:12:38 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.108.232] has joined #lisp 17:12:41 sexp 17:14:09 bing, REPL pops up now, thanks ThomasH 17:14:13 *bingo 17:14:36 kilon: YW 17:15:08 amazing I can give REPL any amount of code, thats liberating 17:16:19 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-216-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:16:21 best to write lengthy code in a file and send it to lisp with a keystroke. 17:16:42 the repl is good for calling functions and intermediate values and things like that 17:17:00 and it seems your split window approach no longer freezes emacs, great problem solve, back to studying 17:17:14 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:41 kilon: C-x C-e will evaluate the form in the file buffer. C-c C-c will compile the defun in the buffer. Then you can test calling it from the REPL. 17:18:08 ThomasH: yes I already use evaluate 17:18:40 kilon: Note that evaluate and compile are distinct, so if you go running some damn benchmark, make sure to compile. 17:18:41 hydo [~hydo@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:09 i thought eval only triggered intepreter while compile the compiler 17:19:46 Yes, but the compiler will work on a single defun in your buffer. 17:20:20 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-ytpttjprrakpaper] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:20:29 And there is no perceptible difference to the user between the 2 in terms of time between issuing the command and completing the eval or compile. 17:20:58 wait, isnt compiler compiling the entire file "Compile - File C-c M-k" and then runs it ? 17:21:15 kilon: You can compile a single defun using C-c C-c 17:21:42 There is not "running the file" unless you've put top-level function calls in the file. 17:21:53 yes I know that, I thought thjat 17:22:00 well, defuns are run to actually register the functions 17:22:10 Usually, you're file just has definitions and you call things from the REPL. 17:22:12 that I can't compile an entire file 17:22:58 Phoodus: you mean defun , defines the function but does not call it ? 17:23:14 if you just compile (defun foo () 3), that doesn't make (foo) callable 17:23:25 when you _load_ that compiled file, then it _runs_ the defun, which makes (foo) callable 17:23:50 defun is a function, just like + 17:23:52 Phoodus: Sloppy wording. You can compile individual forms. 17:23:57 (well, it might be a special form, have to check) 17:24:12 Phoodus: better to say "if you just compile a file containing ... with compile-file..." 17:24:13 defun is a macro, not like + 17:24:13 just use C-c C-k instead of C-c M-k 17:24:18 Xach: true, I meant compile the file with that 17:24:22 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:23 forms are code fragments ? 17:24:41 a form is something to be evaluated. 3 or (+ 1 2) or (defun foo () 3) 17:25:01 ok 17:25:53 I still don't understand how compiler and interpreter works and how they interplay , time for some googling 17:26:07 that's not something that really is much of a concern 17:26:17 Not at this point. 17:26:31 what is of concern is the concept of loading a file, at this point 17:26:51 whether you load a straight .lisp, or whether you load a compiled .fasl, it has the same effect as running everything on the toplevel 17:27:12 that's also why if you delete an entire defun out of a file, and C-c C-k it again, that old function definition still runs 17:27:25 because all that did was re-run the remaining defuns 17:27:42 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:27:56 (well, assuming that your file just contains defuns) 17:29:14 you just confused me, how you can compile something that does not exist 17:29:59 when you compile a file, it converts it from .lisp to .fasl (or whatever equivalent) 17:30:07 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 17:30:12 when you compile a function, that "does magic behind the scenes stuff" to hopefully make it faster 17:30:37 both are generally transparent to the functionality of the program 17:30:53 but compiling a file does not actually _execute_ its forms 17:31:00 loading does 17:31:33 no it does not , compiling is generally "convert to machine code" 17:31:34 say you've got a running C program, and some shared .dll/.so 17:31:55 you can compile the .dll/.so over and over to your heart's content. Until you actually load that into your program, it has no effect on what it can call 17:32:17 yes I understand that. 17:32:39 so yes, when you just compile a file with defuns in them, those defuns do not become available in the running lisp image 17:32:44 oh wait no I figure out what you said 17:33:00 kilon: At this point, you need to know this: (1) Split screen with your file buffer in 1 screen and your REPL buffer in the other; (2) in the file buffer, enter your definitions and compile the one your testing with C-c C-c; (3) test the function or whatever with the REPL; (4) go to step 2, modify, and repeat. 17:33:05 you were saying that compilation does not stop execution 17:33:34 huh? 17:33:51 ThomasH: thanks crystal clear will do 17:34:11 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:34:30 (or C-c C-k to recompile/load the entire buffer) 17:35:12 beware fasl litter from compile-file. 17:37:35 -!- johnstorey [~johnstore@12.208.167.194] has quit [Quit: Nodding off now.] 17:41:06 pnq [~nick@AC815647.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:44:40 am still strange where is fasl after C-c C-k in sbcl 17:45:09 chenbing: slime-compile-file-options 17:45:19 :fasl-directory 17:45:39 config it in .emacs? 17:46:27 you can customize it. 17:46:48 if you just want to see its value use C-h v slime-compile-file-options 17:47:22 johnstorey [~johnstore@12.208.167.194] has joined #lisp 17:47:57 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:48:43 :D 17:49:02 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:50:20 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:52:17 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:52:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:54:02 -!- msponge [~msponge@31-34-17.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 17:54:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-026.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:55:34 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:56:20 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-145-134.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:30 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:59:27 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:02:34 msponge [~msponge@31-34-17.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 18:04:07 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 18:04:08 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:09 -!- msponge [~msponge@31-34-17.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:26 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 18:06:27 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-103-174.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:07:39 -!- drdo` [~user@89.180.184.149] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:07 -!- Neban [~neban@3.Red-83-33-82.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:10:13 -!- pnq [~nick@AC815647.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:10:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:50 in iolib is there a reason exit isn't exported? 18:11:18 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 18:12:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has joined #lisp 18:13:41 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:16 XPherior [~mike@pool-74-97-83-160.sctnpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:31 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-158-174.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:34 I'm trying to write a fully recursive, arbitrary depth list reversal algorithm. Why is this infinitely recursing? https://gist.github.com/8d9cf57af3275557aa5d 18:16:18 daimrod: Urghh. docs for `slime-compile-file-options' don't really indicate what options `slime-compile-and-load-file' might be. Out of curiousity what value do use for :fasl-directory and what does that get you? 18:16:21 chenbing` [~user@115.192.192.247] has joined #lisp 18:16:31 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:16:31 pnq [~nick@AC810A5C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:17:10 mon_key: I use (setq slime-compile-file-options '(:fasl-directory "/tmp/slime-fasls/")) 18:18:07 -!- chenbing [~user@115.192.192.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:18:12 do you purge those fasls manually? 18:18:27 sbryant: likely because idiomatic use specifies with- macros that automatically close the sockets on exit. 18:18:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.10.39] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:47 Oh really, it was exported then not. 18:19:47 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:19:57 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 18:20:12 mon_key: no /tmp is cleaned on reboot 18:21:13 XPherior: what input is it failing on? 18:21:25 '(a (b c)) 18:21:27 Simple cases. 18:21:44 It works for one level. IE '(a b c) => (C B A) 18:21:50 Once it nests, it gets stuck. 18:21:58 daimrod: :) I understand the purge on reboot. I guess what i'm asking is other than keeping the compile fasls out of ones source directorys is there some other benefit to maintaing them beneate /tmp/ ? 18:22:36 Hmmm..... 18:23:06 Are any of you familiar with sound change appliers? 18:23:14 mon_key: no need to do $ echo *.fasl >> .gitignore everytime :) 18:23:15 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 18:24:09 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 18:24:09 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:25:09 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 18:25:09 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:22 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 18:25:22 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:58 I have a question... 18:26:09 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 18:26:09 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:11 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:20 daimrod: ok 18:27:08 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 18:27:08 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:27:41 Maybe there should be some context for the question: the project I'm working on has a similar idea to this: http://www.zompist.com/sounds.htm 18:27:47 mon_key: I've no big reasons to do so, it's just a matter of taste I guess. 18:28:09 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 18:28:09 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:37 I'm stuck as to what I should use to search-and-replace through the lexicon 18:28:43 XPherior: take '((1)), where 1 is an arbitrary atom. It falls through to the T case, which involves calling (reverse-all (last '((1)))). (last '((1))) is '((1)). 18:29:04 Bike: Yeeeah, I was noticing that just as you said that. 18:29:13 Actually, I'm also stuck as to how I should parse through the ruleset 18:29:17 Bike: Hmph, I'm really not sure how to make this go full depth. 18:29:20 and how I should create its syntax 18:29:31 (as well as what the syntax should be 18:29:32 ) 18:29:50 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:30:25 Does anyone have suggestions? 18:31:04 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 18:32:05 daimrod: I guess the inverse would be why wouldn't one want to store fasls beneath something like /tmp (or equivalent) 18:32:55 it takes more time to kick my python habits than to learn lisp :D 18:32:58 Please? 18:33:29 lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has joined #lisp 18:34:04 Cosman246: looks like a context-sensitive grammar? you might have to write your own system like that guy did, can you read C? 18:34:13 Hmmmm..... 18:34:20 I can read *some* C 18:34:31 XPherior: can you give an example how the reverse result should look like? 18:34:54 eMBee: '(a (b c) d) => (D (C B) A) 18:35:19 -!- lbc [~quassel@h198.natout.aau.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:21 I was thinking of using a different syntax, though 18:36:32 Cosman246: maybe this is useful: https://github.com/kraison/langutils 18:36:46 (there are other SCAs, like IPA Zounds, ASCA, rsca, VSCA, and Phonix) 18:36:50 Thanks 18:37:20 XPherior: http://paste.lisp.org/+2PMN 18:37:28 In particularl the stuff beneath the meta directory 18:37:50 Hmmm, and what does this do? 18:38:30 Cosman246: you need a parser right? 18:38:35 Ah, yes 18:38:55 http://www.cliki.net/meta 18:39:03 Thanks 18:39:29 Thanks Bike! 18:41:26 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:34 -!- ddp [~ddp@93.182.131.6] has quit [Quit: ddp] 18:41:38 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.113.9] has joined #lisp 18:41:47 XPherior: bike was faster... but here is my solution: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126527#1 18:41:47 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-3-80.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:51 ddp [~ddp@93.182.131.6] has joined #lisp 18:42:15 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:42:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.232.148.151] has joined #lisp 18:42:32 eMBee: I can understand yours a bit better :) Thanks! 18:43:49 heh, i can't tell which one actually is better 18:46:04 Help. I can't build a shared library with the ECL. 18:46:21 It shows an error message to me. 18:46:30 Debugger received error: In function COPY-TO-SIMPLE-BASE-STRING, the value of the first argument is 18:46:30 ("simple.o") 18:46:30 which is not of the expected type STRING 18:46:57 *eMBee* didn't have a chance to do any lisp coding all day. after writing this function he feels better and can go to sleep now. 18:47:07 Hmmmmm 18:47:13 But key-parameter :lisp-files should take a list. Official documentation says so. 18:47:18 *Cosman246* is trying to read the META paper 18:47:21 good night eMBee 18:47:38 good night everyone... 18:47:47 Good night, eMBee 18:47:48 dream of alien technology 18:47:50 eMBee, gnight 18:47:52 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:48:12 So, can anyone help me? :( 18:49:23 Cosman246: You might find this nicer than META: https://github.com/drewc/smug 18:49:36 Thanks.... 18:49:42 -!- XPherior [~mike@pool-74-97-83-160.sctnpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:50:12 n1tn4tsn0k: unfortunately not right now 18:50:17 Cosman246: I found the smug.org to be both informative and eye opening -- mind you i don't actually _use_ this stuff :P 18:50:26 Thank you 18:50:32 n1tn4tsn0k: have you tried asking on the mailing list? 18:51:06 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:38 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:44 -!- knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:54:37 p_l, no. 18:56:00 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:45 alvis [~alvis@tx-184-5-64-92.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:13 *Cosman246* scratches his head 18:58:24 Well then. 18:59:16 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:00:31 armence__ [azani@nat/google/x-yfzzwhqabgdsjwib] has joined #lisp 19:00:33 I'm not sure how I could use it to replace certain phonemes with others, though. Thanks.... 19:01:05 Hello all. Anyone here using slimv? It creates a new terminal window when I use it and I would rather it not. Is there any way to do that? 19:02:10 Cosman246: you said, "I'm stuck as to what I should use to search-and-replace through the lexicon" 19:02:10 19:02:25 Yeah. I guess I just need to study more 19:02:30 Cosman246: this would imply some sort of pattern-matching presumably on strings 19:02:37 Yes, indeed it would 19:03:30 So the basic idea is to read the file (or line) -> parse-it -> substitute as need. yes? 19:03:39 Yes 19:04:23 I'm sorry, mon_key. I just couldn't figure it out. I'll try again... 19:07:27 schmx [~dop-dopdo@c-4f5de353.732-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 19:09:27 -!- armence__ [azani@nat/google/x-yfzzwhqabgdsjwib] has left #lisp 19:10:02 Cosman246: Everything you need is in the C provided at the link above. Just translate the idioms described in the commented docs to CL and your done :-P 19:10:18 OK, OK 19:10:23 Thanks 19:10:43 e.g. here http://www.zompist.com/sounds.c.htm 19:11:01 (The only reason I didn't is because sounds is outdated :| ) 19:13:26 Cosman246: It shouldn't matter whether the C code is crufty -- the backbone of the algorithms is written out in the comments. 19:14:11 Yeah.... 19:15:02 Wow, TryCat could just be accomplished with member and loop 19:18:07 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:21:42 -!- schmx [~dop-dopdo@c-4f5de353.732-1-64736c10.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 19:21:46 Cosman246: Indeed. You have all of CL at your disposal - likely the drivers for entire program could be implemented with some combination of FIND POSITION MEMBER STRING SUBSTITUTE etc. 19:21:56 Yeah 19:22:05 Cosman246: Go get 'em tiger! 19:22:33 Thanks! I will 19:23:49 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:24:07 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:11 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:25:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.232.148.151] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:30:17 just discovered paredit and the cheat sheet... awesome :D 19:30:54 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 19:31:05 -!- n1tn4tsn0k [~nitnatsno@adsl-90-150-18-195.muravlenko.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:31:31 Cosman246: you can also use things like CL-AWK, CL-PPCRE, various parser compilers, etc. 19:31:54 Actually, I was thinking of using CL-PPCRE when I started it 19:35:18 p_l: wow, I'd never seen cl-awk before 19:36:24 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:49 The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:49 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:42:58 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:09 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:45:09 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:45:26 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 19:46:43 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3668.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:47:03 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:47:56 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:50:21 ddp_ [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 19:51:43 pnq1 [~nick@ACA21445.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:51:47 -!- ddp [~ddp@93.182.131.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:51 -!- ddp_ is now known as ddp 19:52:58 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810A5C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:53:24 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:05 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 19:57:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:59:46 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-205-86.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:00:36 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:02:08 Something is wrong with mapcar.... 20:02:42 that seems unlikely, elaborate? 20:02:43 Firing up emacs with CCL this morning gave me the bug to update my version of emacs, CCL, and SBCL on winders. Should I work with the dmitryvk or akovalenko version of SBCL for winders? 20:02:59 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:03:09 (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (concatenate 'string "vox" " " x)) '(populi dei)) returns an error "The value POPULI is not of type SEQUENCE." 20:03:42 concatenate wants strings (which are sequences), not symbols 20:03:52 Taslem [40e9e315@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.233.227.21] has joined #lisp 20:03:53 well, it wants sequences. 20:03:56 Mm, thanks 20:04:06 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:06 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:04:06 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:04:19 There, better 20:04:21 Thanks! 20:04:52 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:06:11 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:15 or try (format nil ...) instead of concatenate if you've got mixed types 20:06:32 Phoodus: Thanks 20:07:32 benny [~benny@i577A86AA.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:03 ddp_ [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 20:08:04 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Quit: ddp] 20:08:56 -!- ddp_ is now known as ddp 20:11:30 (Actually, it was because I wanted to let people use lists in "env-before", which means that I'd have to map concatenate through a list if there was a list) 20:13:27 drdo` [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:13:28 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 20:14:11 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:15:20 -!- Taslem [40e9e315@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.233.227.21] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 20:15:40 -!- The_third_bug [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 20:15:46 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.178] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:07 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:45 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 20:17:58 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 20:19:54 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:13 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 20:27:06 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F715A0.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:07 xcv_ [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 20:29:27 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 20:30:42 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:36 -!- pnq1 [~nick@ACA21445.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:31:39 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:57 dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:54 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:36:04 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 20:36:56 mathrick__ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 20:37:33 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:37:47 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-ggtflwgyaxipkxvv] has joined #lisp 20:37:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:45 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-ggtflwgyaxipkxvv] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:53 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:41:07 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-ahrifssedfkwmrkv] has joined #lisp 20:46:50 akovalenko: herep 20:48:33 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 20:58:08 -!- ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has quit [Quit: ddp] 20:58:16 ddp [~ddp@216.243.111.165] has joined #lisp 21:01:32 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 21:05:00 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:06:13 ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has joined #lisp 21:06:28 ThomasH: herep => T 21:06:52 jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:08:05 akovalenko: Just updated my Emacs+SBCL on windows. I noticed that I had --dynamic-space-size set for my previous slime command for SBCL, wondered if that was necessary. 21:08:27 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:07 ThomasH: well, you might want it or you might not (recently, default --dynamic-space-size was changed upstream in SBCL, and then locally changed *back* in my 64-bit builds, so having your own explicit --dynamic-space-size makes it more stable) 21:10:42 situ [~quassel@223.180.46.117] has joined #lisp 21:11:21 ThomasH: for 32-bit versions, default dynamic space size is both stable and good, so it's probably safe to throw it away. 21:11:59 akovalenko: Ok, not sure why it was set before. I had an old 32-bit build of version 1.0.37. It was set to 3072, I upped it to 8192 using your latest 64-bit MSI, seems to be working. 21:14:56 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 21:16:09 -!- situ [~quassel@223.180.46.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:17:32 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:18:29 situ [~quassel@223.191.91.221] has joined #lisp 21:19:42 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:19:54 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 21:20:57 Neban [~neban@73.Red-83-61-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:41 ThomasH: actually, there is some political disagreement w.r.t. heap (and nursery) size for 64-bit SBCL. I decided to keep what *I* regard as sane defaults for Windows/64-bit, at least while there is *no* official Windows/64-bit version. My defaults are 8G heap, 5%-of-heap-but-no-more-than-20Mb nursery. 21:24:55 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:26 ThomasH: but I'll give up if my point of view is not accepted by the time of upstream merging Windows/64-bit. Hence, neither having --dynamic-space-size nor omitting it is future-proof, neither for my 64-bit builds nor for the upstream builds. 21:26:29 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:26:42 akovalenko: Thanks for the info. I'm looking forward to trying out SBCL on Windows, used it on Linux in the past. 21:27:03 ThomasH: that is, if you keep --dynamic-space-size, nursery size can eventually become unreasonable big, and if you throw it away, dynamic-space-size can eventually shrink to 1Gb (current upstream default) 21:27:44 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 21:27:54 -!- ASau`` is now known as ASau 21:28:24 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 21:31:05 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 21:32:06 -!- bbommarito_ [~bbommarit@c-76-100-61-229.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 21:33:22 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-ahrifssedfkwmrkv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:33:28 The last time I've used SBCL on Windows, it often crashed (this was around 1.0.28 IIRC). 21:34:23 sbryant: which "exit" ? 21:34:28 ejbs [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 21:35:02 The last CCL version crashes on exit from the REPL too. 21:35:30 But it usually works fine elsewhere. 21:35:55 Neban: is that with the release version or from svn? did you report the problem? 21:37:02 H4ns: SVN, about a month ago but I'm currently on 1.6 to avoid the crash. 21:37:59 Is there a bug tracker I can submit the bug to? I'll test the SVN version again. 21:38:00 Neban: ok, thanks. maybe a fix exists already. in any case, the akovalenko branch for windows worked great for me. 21:38:43 Neban: please see http://ccl.clozure.com/ 21:38:55 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:15 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:37 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-89.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:58 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:04 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:51:34 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 21:54:28 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:54:30 -!- situ [~quassel@223.191.91.221] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:35 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:24 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-67-174-244-103.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:18 H4ns: after checking out SVN it seems 1.8-dev-r14962-trunk still crashes. 21:59:43 I can't find a related ticket on CCL's trac, although my trac-fu is weak. 21:59:49 -!- hydo [~hydo@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: hydo] 22:00:03 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:07 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 22:00:40 Neban: well, then report the problem. if it is a dupe, they'll find that out. 22:04:25 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:09:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has joined #lisp 22:09:36 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 22:13:13 Involuntary [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:14:56 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:16:12 sorabji5252 [~user@ip72-199-176-160.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:57 -!- ThomasH [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/thomash] has left #lisp 22:18:15 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:18:18 H4ns: what component should I specify? runtime? other? 22:19:41 -!- kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-180-118.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:04 Neban: anything will do. they'll change if required. 22:21:38 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:21:48 Reported, thanks. 22:21:58 Neban: thanks to you! 22:22:32 :) 22:24:36 -!- accel [~accel@unaffiliated/accel] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:25:28 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:25:33 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:33 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:25:33 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 22:28:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-180-54.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:29:17 onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 22:31:20 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:32:04 -!- onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:32:22 onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:42 astern [~kvirc@128.72.198.106] has joined #lisp 22:33:44 markskilbeck [~chris@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 22:35:28 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 22:38:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-2-89.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:39:15 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:39:27 -!- astern [~kvirc@128.72.198.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:40:13 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:42:38 -!- Involuntary [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:42:46 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:45 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 22:45:55 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 22:46:06 kilon [~kilon@ppp-94-64-180-118.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 22:46:17 Neban: Can you update ccl from svn and rebuild the lisp kernel? If you can't compile the lisp kernel, I'll try to check in a binary soon. (If you add an email address to your Trac account, you'll get updates when someone comments on your bug...) 22:46:26 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-169-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Client Quit] 22:47:01 rme: I'll do, I can't at the moment but will do tomorrow. 22:47:12 I can add the email address now though. :) 22:47:16 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 22:47:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-242.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:48:22 -!- dagda [~dagda_@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:48:22 -!- onembk [~onembk@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:42 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:51:35 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 22:53:07 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 22:54:45 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.108.232] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.92.1] 22:56:44 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:59:38 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:59:47 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.113.9] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:01:15 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.55.200] has joined #lisp 23:01:49 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 23:06:44 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:09:11 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:09:24 current ecl and slime don't get along, and clisp cffi callbacks are broken :/ 23:09:53 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:10:39 fractal_heart [~mzhang@0-26-c7-67-cf-5a.dynamic.ucsd.edu] has joined #lisp 23:12:04 -!- chenbing` [~user@115.192.192.247] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:15:31 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@0-26-c7-67-cf-5a.dynamic.ucsd.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 23:16:16 oGMo: what do you mean current ECL? ver 11.1.1? 23:17:56 bege: well, head 23:18:56 oGMo: yes, that's the real current, last time it took me days to figure out I shouldn't have used the official release... 23:19:48 bege: ah crud, here i was hoping head fixed it, though it may be due to my configuration (?0 23:24:21 oGMo: yes, a slightly older than head seem to work for me with slime 23:24:26 should be a config problem 23:24:34 k 23:25:34 cvs ffcall is supposed to work again too but i haven't gotten there 23:28:48 -!- bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:35:11 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:36:18 -!- Neban [~neban@73.Red-83-61-32.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 23:36:27 Neban [~neban@177.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:36 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:37:40 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:38:04 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:38:29 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:38:43 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:43:29 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:46:08 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h178n4c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 23:47:18 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:47:28 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 23:48:41 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:49:29 meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has joined #lisp 23:51:13 -!- naiv [~naiv@AAnnecy-651-1-62-87.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 23:52:03 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 23:52:29 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:54:59 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-68-187.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:56:15 -!- meta-coder [~meta@unaffiliated/meta-coder] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:24 psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-65.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:27 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-65.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 23:59:32 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]