00:01:40 I'm getting this http://paste.lisp.org/display/126284 when calling cl-oauth:obtain-request-token. Could this be that something changed in the API I'm connecting with? This was working before 00:04:07 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:05 Neronus: forxed /and/ fixed it then, i assume? 00:09:57 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:14:32 s/forxed/forked/ 00:14:49 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-86-45.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 00:15:24 Neronus: i don't quite grasp why templates are thrown in the same library, it seems orthogonal to the other features of SHELISP 00:17:07 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@u735081.xgssu14.imtp.tachikawa.mopera.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17:12 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h178n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 00:18:27 madn - yes, he definitely changed it a bit. Just glance at the original: http://dan.corlan.net/shelisp/shelisp.lisp 00:21:30 ayrnieu: then i should check it out again, thanks! the original doesn't look like it was written by someone that wanted to write lisp 00:25:00 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 00:27:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.169.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:09 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816776.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:28:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:18 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 00:32:27 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:32:58 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 00:35:47 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:42:47 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-66-63.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:44:05 I don't like the name "shelisp". 00:44:11 shellisp would be better. 00:45:26 lispsh, shlisp? 00:45:41 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:46:32 uscfcl, uscl 00:47:55 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 00:49:16 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:49:22 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:49:27 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:50:40 shelisp looks gender-related :) 00:50:50 *pnathan* agrees with akovalenko 00:51:44 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:53 what's the CFFI analog to dlsym again? 00:54:16 Ralith_: foreign-symbol-pointer 00:55:10 is that foreign-funcall-pointerable? 00:55:13 -!- Ralith_ is now known as Ralith 00:55:25 Ralith_: but sometimes, (foreign-funcall "dlsym" ...) is better (I recently posted about it to cffi-devel: this way, you can get rid of implementation's CFFI-FEATURES:FLAT-NAMESPACE) 00:55:43 ? 00:55:49 ikki [~ikki@189.247.169.125] has joined #lisp 00:55:50 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:51 Ralith: yes, it's foreign funcallable when non NIL 00:55:56 kk 00:56:00 perhaps I should just read that post 00:56:03 *foreign-funcall-pointerable, even 00:57:13 Ralith: using OS-provided dlsym is great when you want something like "for each module in that directory, load it and call its plugin_initialize function" 00:58:06 is the :library kwarg to fsp not reliable? 00:58:34 CFFI-FEATURES:FLAT-NAMESPACE means that :library won't help 00:58:58 ah. 00:59:12 well, fortunately that's not a concern for my use 01:00:49 LISHP! 01:01:08 pjb, antoszka: ^ 01:01:21 zmv: yeah :) 01:03:47 -!- chp [~user@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:05:23 Not funny. 01:05:48 thekilon [~kilon@athedsl-402711.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 01:06:48 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402711.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:07:08 vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:14 akovalenko: about the name shelisp: not only do i agree, i've talked about shelisp to friends in the past (as i couldn't get it running but liked the concept) and they all had an odd feeling about the name. 01:07:48 also, lsh seems like a sensible name 01:07:55 yeah 01:08:12 "The Lisp family also appears to attract more female programmers..." 01:08:33 or clsh (hint to clhs 01:08:34 ) 01:08:45 Anyone use/like Qi or Shen? 01:08:54 akovalenko: yes, but starting from , and going to + doesn't feel like an improvement, really. 01:08:59 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 01:09:14 akovalenko: given that there are already lisp programmers amongst programmers... 01:10:02 wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has joined #lisp 01:10:02 lsh seems a very unixy name. very practical, easy to type 01:10:41 vrook: I find Shen interesting, and kind of like it, but it looks weird. 01:10:59 pnathan: lsh is already taken, probably.. 01:11:16 then go lishp :D 01:11:17 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:11:18 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 01:11:22 or lish. 01:11:44 just why not LISP-SHELL 01:11:46 yeah, lsh is taken: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lsh 01:11:52 akovalenko: yeah, sure, probably. but it's worlds better than she-lisp. :-/ 01:11:57 akovalenko: that's nice. 01:12:05 akovalenko: but it's not lishp :D 01:12:17 she sells C shells on a sea shore.. 01:12:47 Optional typing seems useful; I'm trying to figure out if the idea was not adopted or its realization in Shen/Qi was not adopted. 01:15:18 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 01:15:38 i don't think it matters that the name is taken. it isn't taken in the lisp world and that's where lsh will be used. lsh isn't as practical to type on dvorak as it is on qwerty. 01:16:07 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:19:44 -!- thekilon is now known as kilon 01:19:45 akovalenko: I think LISP-SHELL sounds too much like a lisp shell (an analogue to scsh), which it isn't. So that name could be misleading. 01:20:17 And actually I think lishp *is* both funny and conveying some sense. 01:20:37 i think we should be shouting names at Neronus, if a switch is made, it'll be his call 01:21:02 also, shelisp is gpl, that's really really sad wrt to lisp 01:22:15 (meaning: perhaps it's better to rewrite it and use a different name and a sane license) 01:23:17 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.102] has joined #lisp 01:23:43 why is that problematid, madnificent? 01:23:48 *problematic 01:23:58 GPL is good. 01:24:04 who's trying to make a lisp shell? 01:24:24 But some people don't want to share, they prefer to use BSD or MIT code in their proprietary software. 01:24:31 pnathan: because *all* other code of your lisp application will need to be gpl as well. (not just like libraries) 01:24:47 madnificent: and how is that a problem? 01:24:51 pnathan: the GPL is ambiguous in Common Lisp 01:24:56 pnathan: i prefer to be free as a programmer, instead of having free code :) 01:25:01 as it's written based on the assumption of a C-like 01:25:58 pjb: it is a problem in the sense that it's not always possible to release the source code. a lot of projects which you do (in order to get food on the table) simply aren't open source. that doesn't mean that those projects can't contribute back. 01:26:23 Personally, I think I would rather have free code benefiting people than to lock up technologies in companies that frequently die or whose projects get canned 01:26:28 Library contrinutors need to eat too. 01:26:29 *pnathan* just my opinion 01:26:49 Indeed, look the mess Genera is in. 01:26:51 pnathan: that's true, but the alternative of BSD/MIT isn't the locked up companies :) 01:27:04 pnathan: also, they can still do that, look at the tivo (that's the correct spelling, right?) 01:27:09 hrolf [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 01:27:10 If they had used GPL libraries and become GPL, it would be saner. 01:29:03 pjb: and library contributors can eat! because they extend the library whilst they're doing their (closed source) job. it doesn't make sense not to contribute code back to the community unless it's a particular strength of the company. thus the library will be extended, but the company can still survive. 01:29:13 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 01:29:49 madnificent: I'm not arguing with the short-term utility of the proprietary/MIT/BSD approach. But in the long run, I think the GPL is better. It might need to be adjusted for a Lispier environment, but modulo that, the great tech ought to be available after the company is long-dead. :-/ 01:30:33 pnathan: you mean http://www.cliki.net/LLGPL ? 01:30:42 something like that yes 01:30:57 pnathan: the GPL doesn't enforce that. it only enforces it for software that's *sold*. furthermore, code without documentation is a no-go and it does abide the rules of the GPL. 01:31:16 pnathan: the key is to support companies that would likely do the right thing, that's always your best guess. 01:31:28 ... so what's wrong with llgpl? 01:31:33 and the GPL doesn't say 'the right thing' more than anything else. if you make it GPL, the company will flunk before the software was finished. 01:32:05 vrook: i dislike the fact that the LLGPL hasn't been tested in court and it's too complex for me to fully understand. if the short summary is correct, i don't mind it. 01:32:26 vrook: the LLGPL is one example, I'm sure there are other examples that could be constructed. 01:33:11 the mails of rms about how CLISP came to use the GPL was an eye-opener for me. 01:33:28 it was simply because of readline, right? 01:33:40 madnificent: I recognize your argument. I don't think companies will release GPL code on their own behest, however. That is why I prefer the GPL, it is IMO better. Rather not argue tonight about it on #lisp tho;. 01:34:23 pnathan: we do :) i've done it in the past for other companies as well. in fact, there are very few projects i've worked on in which we *didn't* contribute back. and we rarely ever use GPL software. 01:34:37 pnathan: I think the problem is that what is "better" depends on your point of view. That's why both you and other people can both be correct, even though you don't agree with eachother. 01:39:26 Long time lispers might be interested in this (maybe pjb or beach for example) http://paste.lisp.org/display/126287 01:42:52 LISP 1.5 had them C[AD]{1,3}R. 01:43:22 pjb: i can't recall seeing them in the LISP 1 manual 01:43:41 I'm looking at the sources :-) 01:43:52 page 220 of the listing. 01:44:19 implemented page 114 and 115. 01:44:43 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:44:49 I thought the more interesting bit above is the representation of numbers. ;) 01:45:28 That's not true, LISP 1.5 had fixnums and floating point numbers. 01:45:41 herdrick [~herdrick@c-69-181-208-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:57 Perhaps some other implementations skiped them. 01:48:13 pjb, This is probably not LISP 1.5 01:48:40 In any case this is so trivially implemented in lisp... 01:48:59 pjb: i can't find them in appendix a of the LISP 1.5 manual (which lists all functions) either. 01:59:12 -!- pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:01:09 how do you organize code when you want to create executable? do you still use .asd? 02:03:24 Yes. 02:05:07 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-402711.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:05:11 why not just a single .lisp file that creates executable? 02:05:52 Because when you have 100 kLoC in a single .lisp file it's rather hard to edit it. 02:07:06 i'm think about a small CLI utility, few hundred lines of code 02:07:30 Then why do you ask>? 02:08:08 How does it matter how you organize 100 lines of code??? 02:08:39 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:08:53 my question is would you still use asd in that case and if so why 02:09:05 nanoc [~conanhome@200.16.144.226] has joined #lisp 02:09:11 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:09:38 One advantage of using asdf in that case would be to be consistent across all your projects. 02:09:39 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:56 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 02:13:00 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:13:00 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:13:38 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@24.106.207.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:14:25 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3EF3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:15:00 Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:40 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:18:17 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 02:20:50 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:21:08 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 02:21:31 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 02:21:47 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:24:19 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 02:29:42 -!- Cosman246 [~cosman246@c-66-235-51-122.sea.wa.customer.broadstripe.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:52 -!- wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:59 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483A33E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:40:27 sylecn [~sylecn@98.143.159.155] has joined #lisp 02:46:22 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 02:46:41 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:31 -!- chrnybo`` [~user@148.122.202.244] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:54:38 -!- CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:54:51 CrazyThinker [~CrazyThin@unaffiliated/crazythinker] has joined #lisp 02:56:38 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@pool-108-27-203-229.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:19 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fidknyypevhpggex] has joined #lisp 03:01:32 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:15 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:50 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:07:45 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:08:09 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp0217.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 03:08:12 -!- zmv [~zmv@189.120.173.189] has quit [Quit: sleep :D] 03:12:47 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:17:55 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:14 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:23:19 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 03:23:40 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 03:28:54 -!- vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:33 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:30:15 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 03:32:53 chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has joined #lisp 03:33:22 yeltzooo [~yeltzooo@ec2-50-18-131-205.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 03:33:58 any native function/macro like 'foreach key value in hashtable/alist? 03:34:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.169.125] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:10 and 'keyset 03:35:26 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:39:40 LOOP can do it over hashtable 03:40:21 :for k :being :the :hash-keys :of hashtab 03:40:37 best loop clause 03:41:10 *p_l* ponders how crazy a vectorized LOOP would be 03:42:29 :for k :being :the :hash-keys :of hashtab :iterating :in-parallel 03:42:49 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.71] has joined #lisp 03:43:35 now add to that partitioning support and joins :D 03:44:44 haha 03:46:00 Mind you, I recently was shown LINQ, and found i quite nice 03:48:39 -!- nu11ptr [~nu11ptr@71-10-6-170.dhcp.aldl.mi.charter.com] has quit [Quit: nu11ptr] 03:48:48 it would be fun if extensible sequences were a more popular extension 03:48:56 extensible hashtables could be useful too 03:50:13 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@pool-108-27-203-229.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 03:57:45 i like iter's way. (iter (for (k v) in-hashtable hash) ..) 03:59:03 -!- peccu is now known as PECCU 03:59:38 -!- PECCU is now known as peccu 03:59:41 -!- peccu is now known as PECCU 04:00:56 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:01:44 Kron [~Kron@98.143.99.8] has joined #lisp 04:02:16 -!- Kron is now known as Guest2994 04:02:17 yep iter is what I appreciate 04:03:59 -!- el-maxo [~max@p57A56119.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:04:33 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:04:40 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:06:23 CrazyEddy [~unlugubri@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 04:06:52 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has joined #lisp 04:09:25 -!- Guest2994 [~Kron@98.143.99.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:10:58 -!- CrazyEddy [~unlugubri@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:11:15 el-maxo [~max@p57A56A90.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:30 has no iter .. 04:13:01 (ql:quickload :iterate) 04:14:02 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 04:18:57 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:20:37 :-) thank you 04:23:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:23:47 welcome. should be intuitive to use if you know loop 04:23:50 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:58 hypesthesic [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 04:30:38 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0E9F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:30:47 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 04:34:13 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA06B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:37:24 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has joined #lisp 04:37:37 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:37:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:37:39 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 04:38:59 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:40:53 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has joined #lisp 04:46:33 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:48:28 -!- bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:48:57 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:50:03 pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has joined #lisp 04:50:34 I know that using (load "/fpath/") includes another file in my env, but what is the most appropriate way to include a file in another file? 04:51:51 That file will always in the same working dir 04:52:00 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:58:00 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:58:00 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:59:44 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:01:03 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:40 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 05:05:00 use ASDF 05:06:59 wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has joined #lisp 05:09:49 Doesn't quicklisp replace in full stack ? 05:09:57 full stack of what? 05:10:20 e.g. import like java 05:10:54 i don't know java, but quicklisp employs ASDF 05:11:49 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@98.143.159.155] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:14:00 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-25-141-225.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:27 Is there a comprehensive lisp manual where I can do keyword searches 05:14:39 Common Lisp HyperSpec 05:14:44 thanks 05:14:51 do you use slime? 05:18:10 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 05:19:52 yes 05:20:08 oO 05:20:24 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has joined #lisp 05:20:25 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:21:13 chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has joined #lisp 05:21:23 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 05:25:00 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:29:27 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:29:58 Kron [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has joined #lisp 05:30:24 -!- Kron is now known as Guest80591 05:32:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-127-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:03 -!- hrolf [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC 0.5.CVS (2007/05/06)] 05:32:11 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 05:35:04 -!- Guest80591 [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:35:15 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:35:46 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 05:36:06 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:37:44 hijarian [~kvirc@178.206.121.95] has joined #lisp 05:38:40 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:39:07 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 05:41:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.9.144] has joined #lisp 05:41:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.9.144] has quit [Changing host] 05:41:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:48:07 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 05:56:27 (asdf:asdf-version) 05:56:41 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:56:43 teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 06:01:13 Is this good form (lambda (row) (declare (ignore row)) margin) 06:01:37 I mean no #' as in #'(lambda (row) (declare (ignore row)) margin) 06:01:49 yes, it's good 06:02:53 but the function itself looks strange 06:03:47 -!- herdrick [~herdrick@c-69-181-208-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: herdrick] 06:04:20 herdrick [~herdrick@c-69-181-208-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:05:33 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:06:09 -!- herdrick [~herdrick@c-69-181-208-149.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:09:36 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:10:54 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has joined #lisp 06:12:14 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:20 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:21:42 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 06:24:18 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE31F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:27:25 stassats: Thanks - it's a dummy function which is called when the "do not adjust futures margins into the past using the CPI" option is in effect. The other version uses the data. "margin" is from the closure. 06:27:26 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:27:47 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-75-97.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:28:26 teggi_ [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 06:28:39 -!- teggi_ is now known as teggi 06:30:52 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-44-140.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:31:07 if margin isn't modified, then you could try (constantly margin) 06:31:57 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:31:57 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 06:35:01 -!- gaidal [gaidal@61.144.106.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:35:48 gaidal [gaidal@61.144.107.73] has joined #lisp 06:41:17 gko [~gko@27.243.126.185] has joined #lisp 06:45:36 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:50 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 06:52:06 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-124-13.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-127-172.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:07 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 06:57:34 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:58:46 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-ozlqizbhclkwrfef] has joined #lisp 06:58:59 chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has joined #lisp 06:59:27 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:59:49 chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:59 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has left #lisp 07:00:45 -!- fractal_heart [~mzhang@108-66-116-155.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:03:05 Modius_ [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:03:46 When setting up a CL web server, what is the benefit of detachtty compared to just doing "sbcl --load init.lisp" in the startup script? 07:04:27 On my last setup I had to clear the old detachtty files before the process would start again, each time the server had been rebooted... 07:06:27 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:06:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-158.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:07 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:41 gaidal: emergency REPL access? 07:08:16 -!- H4ns [~user@p57A9EF4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:09:49 p_l: OK. Yes I guess. I'm pretty confused by this whole setup process... 07:09:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:10:41 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:11:01 pon1980 [~pon@195.67.88.105] has joined #lisp 07:13:16 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 07:14:31 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:22 rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has joined #lisp 07:16:39 well, I usually used screen 07:17:17 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ceqinqhoywpvheic] has joined #lisp 07:18:56 I'm trying to install detachtty, any idea what to install if I don't have the command cc? 07:19:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:19:42 KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 07:21:52 teggi_ [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 07:21:56 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:22:09 nvm, needed base-devel... 07:22:11 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:22:14 -!- teggi_ is now known as teggi 07:22:58 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:23:24 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 07:23:24 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:55 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 07:24:39 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has left #lisp 07:25:22 there is a dir "~/quicklisp/local-projects$" ,can we manage required modules for project in replace of ASDF? 07:26:52 ASDF is equivalent to "make", not a project manager 07:27:16 local-projects is just a handy place for Quicklisp to search 07:30:03 okay that means Make is inevitable 07:30:45 H4ns [~user@p5DDB8AE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:23 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:35:24 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE31F24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:35:34 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-149-78.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:54 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:39:08 teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 07:43:20 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:44:38 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:46:18 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 07:47:38 -!- H4ns [~user@p5DDB8AE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:47:45 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:46 teggi_ [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 07:48:15 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:48:34 -!- teggi_ is now known as teggi 07:48:35 H4ns [~user@p5DDB8AE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:52:40 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 07:53:31 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 07:54:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-185-53.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:02:15 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:27 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:03:44 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:03:59 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 08:04:15 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:06:38 psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-65.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:42 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-65.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 08:06:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:45 teggi_ [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 08:08:34 psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-65.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:54 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 08:10:32 -!- psilord [~psilord@ppp-70-226-170-65.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net] has left #lisp 08:11:59 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 08:15:46 oudeis [~oudeis@host109-150-73-67.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 08:17:14 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-56-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 08:22:02 passionke [~Administr@221.12.173.226] has joined #lisp 08:22:03 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 08:26:00 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:26:16 H4ns` [~user@p5DDBB140.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:27:16 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-66-63.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:27:19 -!- morphling [~quassel@84.38.68.108] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:28:49 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@200.16.144.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:29:04 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:29:04 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:29:38 -!- H4ns [~user@p5DDB8AE4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:29:40 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 08:29:47 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195.67.88.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:05 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:30:29 -!- ayrnieu [~julian@50.15.104.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:31:54 nanoc [~conanhome@200.16.144.226] has joined #lisp 08:33:54 ayrnieu [~julian@50.15.104.42] has joined #lisp 08:34:11 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-ozlqizbhclkwrfef] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:44 knobo [~bohmer@92.80-202-64.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:35:06 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-oiqtbbrpohaueklv] has joined #lisp 08:35:15 -!- Gymnopediste [~Gniourf@vil69-1-82-67-51-185.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:35:32 I need a xml library to manipulate odf documents. I have never used much xml before, and there are so many libraries to choose from. 08:35:56 Is there a xml lisp-library guide somewhere? 08:36:09 -!- jayne [~jayne@freenode/staff/jayne] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:37:42 cxml is the one you want, almost certainly 08:45:16 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:48:53 knobo: what kind of manipulation do you want to do? 08:49:19 pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has joined #lisp 08:49:21 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 08:50:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-124-13.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:52:02 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 08:54:02 H4ns: so it appears only one bot is now scraping /viewvc 08:55:31 jdz: cool! the box seems to be very quiet now, thanks! 08:56:19 H4ns: quiet as in you are sitting next to it and it was causing too much noise? :) 08:57:26 jdz: not quiet (sic) that. but the "top" display looks like it should with not much activity. last week, there were always several cgi processes active. 08:58:25 dRbiG [p@static-78-8-120-130.ssp.dialog.net.pl] has joined #lisp 08:59:56 -!- Guest8980 [kdas@nat/redhat/x-talneqjrsdqojdin] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:00:00 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has left #lisp 09:03:05 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 09:10:36 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.215] has joined #lisp 09:10:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.215] has quit [Changing host] 09:10:36 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:10:57 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:11 H4ns: Search and replace, and merging 09:11:56 knobo: i'd use xsl for that. but if you want to use lisp, i can recommend cxml, too. 09:12:33 Guest8980 [kdas@nat/redhat/x-oihocgszefyppuno] has joined #lisp 09:13:38 xsl is probably not good enough as some of the field in the document should get its content from various kind of lookups. 09:14:12 knobo: what kind of lookups? in other xml documents? files? databases? 09:14:26 databases 09:14:31 I'm using cl-oauth and cl-oauth:obtain-request-token is returning a binary array. What am I missing? 09:14:51 and other odf files 09:15:22 knobo: i see. well, there is more than one way to do it :) - cxml is certainly not the worst. 09:16:08 YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 09:20:03 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:20:14 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:21:07 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:21:16 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:23:24 Maybe I could/should combinde xsl and lisp. Produce xml files with the result from database lookups, then run xsl. 09:24:13 knobo: that is an approach that i might choose. i'd recommend that you use xslt 2.0 (saxon). it is much much nicer than xslt 1.0. 09:24:26 knobo: (just if you hadn't considered that) 09:25:27 -!- teggi_ [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:26:43 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:48 is Terje Norderhaug around here on a nick? 09:27:08 teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 09:27:24 -!- Noctifer [~Noctifer@89.204.155.160] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:19 pitlimit: you can include a file into another with #.(COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM.UTILITY:INCLUDE "other/file.lisp") 09:29:34 pitlimit: (ql:quickload :COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM) 09:29:49 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:29:51 But of course this is silly. 09:30:03 thanx 09:31:33 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:31:35 how to detach a global-varibal from symbol? 09:31:50 avoid restart slime 09:32:28 Does anyone run swank inside a vbox and know how to connect to it with slime? 09:32:32 You may either (makunbound '*variable*) or (unintern '*variable*) depending on what you mean by "detach a global-variable". 09:33:07 chenbing: notice that in both cases, this doesn't remove the special declaration of the symbol! 09:33:38 (but with unintern, it doesn't matter if you re-read the code that use that symbol). 09:34:41 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5bdf00-15.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:34:41 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-56-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:34:47 I want to a variable dispear throughly 09:35:08 chenbing: things don't disapear in lisp. 09:35:08 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-93-56-152.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 09:35:19 unintern usually removes specialness 09:35:29 gaidal: i do. what do you want to know? 09:35:29 The only thing you can do is to forget them, so that eventually the garbage collector may reclaim their memory. 09:35:42 stassats`: you must reread the code that use the symbol of same name! 09:35:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:35:51 unintern doesn't remove the specialness. 09:36:11 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:36:43 (defvar *a*) (defun g () (print *a*)) (defun f () (let ((*a* 42)) (g))) (unintern '*a*) (f) --> 42 09:37:03 H4ns: Is there anything I should know? I have a rule to route all traffic on to 4006, which Swank is listening to, but even with a ssh -L 4005:localhost: tunnel up, I can't connect. Connection broken by remote peer. 09:37:05 instead of eg. error, undefined variable. 09:37:24 well, naturally you need to recompile your code, but new references to *a* won't be special 09:37:46 gaidal: you don't need any "rules" for that to work. 09:38:18 H4ns: The guest is on NAT, surely I need some forwarding to connect to it? 09:38:58 gaidal: no, you are doing the forwarding through the ssh connection. you need to connect to connect to localhost:4005 on the client with the ssh tunnel in place. 09:39:18 hello folks 09:40:42 if you trust your virtual box, just put (setf *loopback-interface* "0.0.0.0") to ~/.swank.lisp 09:41:01 gaidal: on the host, you do a (swank:create-server :port 4005). Then you start the ssh tunnel on the cliet with "ssh -L 4005:localhost:4005 ". then you start emacs on the client and use M-x slime-connect to connect to localhost:4005 09:41:05 and then you won't need any ssh tunnels 09:41:41 and you would need to connect to the address of your virtual machine 09:41:52 H4ns: Oh, is 4005:localhost:4005 also over SSH/port 22? 09:42:01 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:42:17 gaidal: yes 09:42:34 Oooooh. 09:42:59 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.82] has joined #lisp 09:43:09 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:43:17 stassats`: I'm not quite following, how do I reach the guest without ssh? 09:43:35 The tunnel creates a local port. You just connect to the local port. 09:43:38 -!- Guest8980 is now known as kushal 09:43:46 -!- kushal is now known as kdas 09:43:50 gaidal: the same way ssh reaches your guest 09:43:52 -!- kdas is now known as kdas_ 09:44:14 by default slime listens only on 127.0.0.1, for security reasons 09:44:40 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:55 so that you're forced to use SSH tunnels, but if you know that nobody can spy on your network then just listen on 0.0.0.0, i.e, on all network interfaces 09:46:22 stassats`: I see, but then I would still have to open another port, since SSH is the only open port... wouldn't I? 09:46:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126294 A list varaible changed inside function ,this confuse me ;yesterday ako and xache point out decf and incf changes literal ;but a let is not a local variable? 09:47:08 gaidal: you don't have to open anything 09:47:10 stassats`: I mean, is the only open port, and it redirects to 22 on the guest. And I can't use it for swank since it's used by ssh... I think... 09:47:22 stassats`: well, not open, but redirect from the host 09:47:23 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 09:47:27 chenbing: variable is not changing; it's the value that is changing. 09:47:33 gaidal: you need to understand how ssh tunneling works. 09:47:51 I'm doing a request to an oauth endpoint with drakma and getting a binary vector back. What am I missing? 09:47:52 gaidal: the swank connection is tunneled through the ssh connection. 09:47:55 H4ns: yes, looks like it. 09:48:12 chenbing: we told you that you must not change literal data! 09:48:16 gaidal: you don't need any secret ports or ssh tunnels or whatnot 09:48:28 chenbing: we advised you to use copy-tree to make a mutable copy of your data! 09:48:36 unless your firewall is braindamaged, making swank to listen on 0.0.0.0 will just work 09:48:44 chenbing: if you cannot listen to what we tell you, we'll ignore you. 09:48:52 H4ns: but isn't stassats` saying that I could do it without SSH tunnel? 09:49:08 gaidal: if your virtual machine is running on your workstation, you can do that. 09:49:35 VM is running somewhere else 09:49:35 gaidal: but if it is a host in the internet, you need to use some secure mechanism if you don't want to expose your machine to the internet. 09:49:42 gaidal: so ssh tunnels are for you. 09:49:46 ah ok 09:50:21 The advice to have swank listen on 0.0.0.0 is if we're on the same machine then? 09:50:32 if you trust your network 09:50:44 gaidal: no. if you are on the same machine, you can connect to localhost:4005 directly. 09:51:12 well, virtual machines usually use another interface 09:51:15 haha, "being on the same machine" is overloaded here 09:51:47 i also connect directly to swank on a different machine since it's on my local network 09:51:55 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:52:04 chenbing: have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/display/126294#1 09:52:06 gaidal: i usually run emacs on the host that i run the lisp on. that is easier in other respects (emacs and the lisp see the same file system) 09:52:06 the network to trust, is it the one between me and swank, or the one between swank and its host? 09:52:15 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:33 gaidal: between emacs and swank 09:52:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:42 between slime and swank, slime is the thing that sits in Emacs 09:52:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.9.144] has joined #lisp 09:52:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.9.144] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:57 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:53:02 Then I certainly don't trust it (rather expect it to be monitored) 09:53:15 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:53:45 then ssh tunnels are the way to go 09:53:52 gaidal: now read something about how ssh tunneling works. 09:54:30 although i doubt anybody will be interested in your lisp sessions 09:54:56 evenson [~evenson@213.33.70.157] has joined #lisp 09:54:59 the man in the middle is always interested in that! 09:55:20 he's always sitting there, waiting patiently 09:55:25 stassats`: now you are starting to give downright bad advice. 09:55:28 "Connected. Hack and be merry!" 09:55:34 \o/ 09:56:06 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-199-244.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:56:23 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 09:56:45 The part about SSH tunneling using, eh, SSH, makes sense. I just couldn't see how the 0.0.0.0 would work without any forwarding or ssh tunnel. 09:57:04 H4ns: readers discretion is advised 09:58:09 -!- passionke [~Administr@221.12.173.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:25 Next issue is how to get rid of 5s lag when I type over SSH... 09:58:30 but thank you so far! 09:59:28 passionke [~Administr@221.12.173.226] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@host109-150-73-67.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:03:14 gaidal: Dont know, if it was mentioned so far: you need to disable the second port before starting a swank-server with (setf swank:*use-dedicated-output-stream* nil) 10:05:35 this is default 10:07:01 I don't really know how that works, just using (swank:create-server :port *swank-port* :dont-close t)) as I was told 10:07:10 (somewhere) 10:08:35 there's a file start-swank.lisp, read the comment there 10:08:48 so, you can just do lisp --load start-swank.lisp 10:09:22 is this something I ought to find out more about soon? 10:09:56 what do you mean? you just found out 10:10:30 and start-swank.lisp is supposed to be modified, say especially the last form 10:10:32 yeah I meant as in understanding what it means and seeing the benefit 10:10:50 how do you start swank right now? 10:11:42 I have never thought about it. Locally I M-x slime 10:11:52 and on the server, the line I just pasetd 10:11:52 madnificent: They are there because they were there before and I wanted to keep compatibility. Another reason: The parsing is done by the same code. It would make sense to put templates and shell stuff in separate packages, but then they become about 100 lines long each :) 10:11:53 pasted* 10:12:25 gaidal: that line won't work if you haven't loaded swank first 10:13:05 stassats`: Does starting emacs start swank? 10:13:34 if you command it do so, yes 10:13:51 Regarding the license: The author allows me to relicense it, provided the license is "compatible" with GPL2. We'll see what he thinks about BSD. 10:13:51 by default? 10:14:01 gaidal: you know what swank is, right? 10:14:11 so, what you're saying, that you first start emacs on the remote machine, then M-x slime, and then the line you pasted? 10:14:17 I know the destructive decf and incf ,what makes wonder is I call (test2) third times ,everytime it's a dotimes 500,and the successive call (test2) display as dotimes 1000 ,dotimes 1500.. 10:14:29 What's the common opinion about LGPL? 10:14:46 jdz: only that it's what slime talks to 10:14:50 Neronus: there is no "common opinion". i find it bearable. 10:15:00 i prefer BSD 10:15:04 Neronus: (llgpl) 10:15:09 *H4ns* prefers bsd, too 10:15:17 Neronus: some people think LGPL is unsuitable for lisp, and therefore have created LLGPL 10:15:26 well, i actually prefer public domain, but it doesn't work everywhere 10:15:29 stassats`: No, I said locally I do M-x slime. I have (slime-backend "swank-loader.lisp") in my .emacs... 10:15:31 *jdz* too prefers BSD 10:16:09 stassats`: remotely, I quickload swank, and have the line above in my init script 10:16:36 ql:quickload 10:17:14 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:17:29 doing sbcl --load start-swank.lisp, you don't need to quickload anything and putting anything into your init file 10:18:34 ok, do I edit start-swank so that it calls the other stuff, then? 10:18:51 what stuff? 10:19:33 well, any lisp code I want to run... the code that is being run now, that calls swank:create-server 10:19:33 -!- H4ns [~user@p5DDBB140.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:20:25 chenbing: How many times do we have to tell you that you must not change literal data! 10:21:19 stassats`: now it runs init.lisp which starts swank and the whole web server thing; I could put swank-loader there instead but I still need to start the web server 10:21:58 gaidal: well, if it works for you now and you don't really know what you're doing, then leave it be 10:21:59 H4ns [~user@p5DDBBBF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:19 chenbing: try: (defun f () '(a b c)) (eq (f) (f)) and compare with (defun g () (list 'a 'b 'c)) (eq (g) (g)) 10:22:26 daniel_ [~daniel@p508297DC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:58 yeah sorry I'm now quite following :) I don't really know what I'm doing indeed as I'm learning as I go, but I am trying to see the benefit of what you suggest 10:23:02 chenbing: then try: (setf (car (f) 'z)) (f) vs. (setf (car g) 'z) (g) 10:23:02 not quite* 10:23:42 chenbing: then try: (setf (car (f)) 'z) (f) vs. (setf (car (g)) 'z) (g) ; I mean... 10:24:02 gaidal: swank server is the same as a web server -- you must start it beforeyou can try and connect to it with emacs (slime) 10:24:08 H4ns: on hunchentoot 1.2.2: did #'create-folder-dispatcher-and-handler change? if i push one to *dispatch-table* it doesn't seem to work 10:24:15 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326E3C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:24:24 madnificent: no, but you need to use easy-acceptor, not acceptor 10:25:16 sorry pjb 10:26:03 jdz: by web server I meant hunchentoot and my code for web pages 10:26:47 gaidal: exactly. swank is also a server; not all servers are web servers, you know. 10:27:07 uh, no? 10:27:12 H4ns: works like a charm, thanks! 10:27:26 gaidal: when you start lisp from emacs (using M-x slime or whatever), swank server is started automatically 10:27:29 there are servers in tennis 10:28:04 gaidal: you know, you use many servers. for instance SSH server. 10:28:33 gaidal: i know you do because just minutes ago you were using it. 10:28:34 -!- dmiles_a3k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-49-126.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:40 jdz: yes of course. I must not be communicating very skillfully because this is getting more and more confusing 10:30:17 gaidal: put another way: you connect to web servers with a browser, and to swank servers with emacs (using slime) 10:30:31 yes yes, uh 10:30:39 -!- kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-oihocgszefyppuno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:30:45 i connect to web servers with netcat, you insensitive clod! 10:31:05 What I'm trying to say is that my current init file starts the swank server and my web server 10:31:15 gaidal: that's very good. 10:31:17 and that I can't see the point of changing this so that my lisp process *only* starts the swank server 10:31:28 gaidal: has anybody suggested that? really? 10:31:28 as I thought stassats` suggested 10:31:29 i have a shell script which uses netcat lying somewhere around which can connect to swank 10:31:30 chenbing: don't be sorry. Report the result of your experience. What did you get for (eq (f) (f)) and (eq (g) (g))? What did you get for (f) and (g) after setting their car? 10:31:36 and obviously I'm not following 10:31:36 chenbing: what are your conclusions? 10:31:53 although i don't think it survived the recent protocol change 10:31:57 -!- wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:32:11 gaidal: probably he suggested you start from the very basics, ensuring that you get your swank server working 10:32:21 jdz: well, sbcl --load swank-loader instead of sbcl --load current-init-file-that-also-starts-swank-server... doesn't mean that? 10:32:35 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 10:32:56 yes perhaps 10:33:03 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:33:50 depends on what you want 10:34:26 i just do ccl --load start-swank.lisp on my phone and then connect to it with slime on my desktop, i don't need to start web-servers 10:34:31 gaidal: people have to do it like that because they don't have your environment handy to inspect things; so they try to make you create a predictable environment 10:35:29 ok 10:36:10 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:40:03 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:40:13 pjb: yeah '(a b c ) is totally different with (list a b c) 10:40:19 Noctifer [~Noctifer@89.204.139.67] has joined #lisp 10:40:22 (list 'a 'b 'c) 10:40:24 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:40:57 '(a b c ) looks like unique 10:42:48 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:44:52 (eq (f) (f)) ;=>T and (eq (g) (g));=>nil 10:45:07 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 10:45:23 -!- gko [~gko@27.243.126.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:46:12 I'm surprised that doesn't error; have you defined functions named f and g? 10:46:32 yes, see above 10:47:16 dmiles_a3k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-49-126.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 10:47:43 Mhh... How about lisp+shell as a name? 10:47:47 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 10:47:54 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-cszylqqirhqytjdi] has joined #lisp 10:47:55 and we take lsh as an alias 10:49:04 -!- H4ns [~user@p5DDBBBF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:49:51 chenbing: that's why we tell you not to modify literal data. Literal data is considered immutable, so the compiler always refer to the same data. It could be stored in read-only pages, so trying to modify it could signal an error, or could modify the literal data itself, in effect, modifying the source of the program! 10:50:57 chenbing: you can build a mutable data directly (eg. (list 'a 'b 'c)), or as we advised you to do, you can use copy-tree to duplicate the cons structure (copy-seq '((k1 . v1) (k2 . v2))) will produce a new mutable copy of the data. 10:51:28 s/copy-seq/copy-tree/ 10:52:34 what's the QL function to remove old versions of the installed systems? 10:52:43 there was something like cleanup, IIRC 10:53:25 I use (quick-clean :system). 10:53:38 add^_ [~add^_^@h178n3c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:54:09 See the definition in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/rc&h=5b4337263e84fd4116a9dd5b0dab11f22207a423&hb=262a210afd605630c57b473d75544de8d0e7b532&f=common.lisp 10:54:09 YuleAthas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:54:44 actually, (quick-clean), I clean everything. 10:55:37 pjb: Oh, sorry, I think that's a misunderstanding ... I don't want to clean the Lisp image, I want to remove the directories in the QL dists directory 10:56:55 So? 10:57:27 thank you pjb 10:59:07 do I need something installed? I don't have (quick-clean) ... the one of Xach was integrated in QL, even if not exported from ql 10:59:29 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:02:13 mensch [~mensch@c-71-232-44-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:03:47 killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 11:03:52 rudi [~rudi@1x-193-157-193-56.uio.no] has joined #lisp 11:04:01 yake [~yake@115.223.11.98] has joined #lisp 11:04:03 The problem with lisp+shell is that you can't search for it via google 11:04:25 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:04:40 See the definition in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/rc&h=5b4337263e84fd4116a9dd5b0dab11f22207a423&hb=262a210afd605630c57b473d75544de8d0e7b532&f=common.lisp 11:04:43 flip214: See the definition in http://git.informatimago.com/viewgit/index.php?a=viewblob&p=public/rc&h=5b4337263e84fd4116a9dd5b0dab11f22207a423&hb=262a210afd605630c57b473d75544de8d0e7b532&f=common.lisp 11:04:59 Why does it seem like only half my messages are read? 11:05:58 I'm reading your messages ... but I'm not sure if that's what I asked 11:06:28 I've got ~50 systems in my QL dist ... reading your link makes me think that only _loaded_ systems are cleaned, not all on disk 11:06:53 flip214: the idea there is that libraries provide functions that are often ill-named, and impractical for interactive use. So you wrap them in a set of easy to use interactive commands, that can easily be searched with apropos. And then when you have a question like yours, you just (apropos "") and use the easy-to-use command instead of the hard to find library function. 11:07:31 I don't know how you can infer that from (map nil 'ql-dist:clean (ql-dist:enabled-dists)). 11:08:42 says nothing about systems or loaded systems... 11:08:55 pjb: wouldn't it be shorter to paste the above MAP call instead of the huge URLs? 11:09:34 jdz: a fish vs. to fish. 11:10:38 pjb: yes, true, but TBH I didn't understand that I should take a look at the (quick-clean) definition in your links ... and I just looked for that single line. 11:10:44 thanks, solved now. 11:12:09 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.85] has joined #lisp 11:14:23 There is no loop macro to iterate over all kinds of sequences, is there? 11:14:56 Neronus: you could try to "for element in (coerce 'list)" 11:14:58 there is no 11:16:08 flip214: That is too slow in that case 11:16:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:16:15 Well, too bad. 11:16:39 Neronus: in which case? 11:17:26 Neronus: do you use SBCL and don't care about portability? 11:17:32 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:14 iterate has in-sequence. (iter (for x in-sequence sequence) 11:18:16 I have some kind of sequence, need to turn that into an array to give out to a C library 11:18:54 stassats`: I used :element :of and found out that it doesn't work in ccl. I need portability 11:19:06 kennyd: That's an option 11:19:48 you can use MAP 11:21:48 -!- PECCU [~peccu@ZL198245.ppp.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:21:58 stassats`: That's a good idea 11:22:16 H4ns [~user@e178185008.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:40 -!- yake [~yake@115.223.11.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:23:06 yake [~yake@115.223.11.98] has joined #lisp 11:23:28 Neronus: also COERCE 11:23:54 COERCE isn't cool 11:24:03 unless your SSC is particularly S 11:25:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:34 What is SSC? 11:26:53 stassats`: it does not really depend on the smarts, but on support for particular specialised array types 11:27:08 Sufficiently Smart Compiler 11:27:43 jdz: COERCE conses, for starters 11:28:24 stassats`: more than MAP? 11:28:34 yes 11:28:38