00:00:11 -!- zmv is now known as lolwut 00:00:15 "Doctor, will I be able to play the trumpet after my operation?" 00:00:19 "I don't see why not." 00:00:25 "Great, 'cause I can't play it now." 00:00:26 pkhuong: makes me think of the poster about McCarthy 'Programming, you're doing it all wrong' :) 00:00:44 daimrod: sorry, that was in relation to, what? 00:00:45 -!- lolwut is now known as Guest43910 00:00:56 -!- Guest43910 is now known as zmv 00:02:24 l_r: gigamonkey has written (and made widely available) a book that covers quickly much of the basic parts of lisp you might need to read. try 00:02:24 17:59 l_r: there's a reason why people have to learn 00:02:24 things. if you learned to play on a ukulele, 00:02:24 would you expect to be able to play a clarinet 00:02:24 as well? 00:02:24 18:00 madnificent: I would if I could 00:02:24 18:00 *** zmv NICK lolwut 00:02:25 18:00 "Doctor, will I be able to play the trumpet 00:02:26 after my operation?" 00:02:26 18:00 "I don't see why not." 00:02:27 18:00 "Great, 'cause I can't play it now." 00:02:27 18:00 pkhuong: makes me think of the poster about 00:02:27 McCarthy 'Programming, you're doing it all 00:02:28 wrong' :) 00:02:45 daimrod: if it was wrt the ukulele: it didn't look all that hard, it's just small. the clarinet, however, requires real skill (i think) :) 00:02:52 my apologies to everyone for that. 00:04:55 madnificent: right, like scheme vs CL ? (it's friday) ;) 00:05:24 no, it's thursday. 00:05:35 i don't think i want to get into that daimrod 00:05:57 Friday here to 00:06:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-158-248.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:07:08 not only do some people have a wrong date, their freaking sun is in the wrong position! 00:07:34 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:08:17 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770BC5.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:08:52 dsrguru [~dsr@132.161.245.46] has joined #lisp 00:10:13 is there a way to destructively append to a string a la nconc, or should I just use concatenate? 00:10:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:10:44 dsrguru: you could, if you create the string so that it's adjustable. 00:10:54 dsrguru: if your string is is adjustable and has a fill pointer. 00:12:00 (let ((old-length (length string))) (setf string (adjust-array string (+ old-length new-space))) (replace string new-data :start1 old-lengnth)) 00:12:25 You don't need the fill pointer, but you could have one to optimize the adjusting. 00:12:51 I'm going to be appending either single characters or strings of four characters each time through a long loop 00:12:54 pjb: you could vector-push-extent when you have a fillpointer, it looks nice. 00:13:22 vector-push-extend even 00:13:23 Yes, for single character, vector-push or vector-push-extend on a string with a fill-pointer would be the best. 00:13:27 gigamonkey: do you happen to be Peter Seibel? 00:13:32 dsrguru: yup. 00:13:34 bingo! 00:13:49 gigamonkey: awesome, I've just read through Practical Common Lisp, and your writing is very clear 00:13:58 gigamonkey: instant fame, this is the moment to charge 30$ for an autograph 00:14:05 haha 00:14:07 -!- hakzsam_ [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:14:56 the hyperspec doesn't explain fill pointers very clearly 00:14:56 -!- topo___ [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:14:56 -!- topo [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:12 topo__ [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:15:13 topo [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:15:43 topo___ [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:15:43 -!- topo__ [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:43 -!- topo [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:44 topo____ [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:15:45 -!- topo___ is now known as topo 00:16:07 dsrguru: glad you enjoyed it! 00:17:34 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.71] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:43 gigamonkey: I did. I have some experience with scheme/racket, and PCL let me switch over very quickly 00:18:20 pjb: aww, lisp code looks really awful when typed with no newlines or indentation, please don't do that again 00:18:42 dsrguru: think of it as a vector with an extra number indicating how much of it has been used. that number is the fill-pointer. and everything understands that it has to abide the fillpointer. 00:18:43 pjb: does vector-push just increase the fill pointer by 1? 00:18:52 And it stores the element. 00:18:57 right 00:19:06 dsrguru: and vector-push-extend will also make the vector bigger if needed 00:19:11 kk 00:19:30 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 00:19:33 so the fill pointer can never exceed the initial size of the vector, right? 00:19:35 oh 00:19:40 that's the point of vector-push-extend 00:20:48 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:21:01 do vector-push and vector-push-extend attempt to push at the front as if the vector is a stack or do they append to the end? 00:21:08 at the end. 00:21:34 that makes a lot more sense; I just think of push as a stack term 00:21:39 vector-push is a O(1) operation. 00:22:17 and vector-push-extend has O(n) if it needs to enlarge the vector, I presume? 00:22:45 yes. That's why you should extend it by O(length(vector)), so that it's O(1) amortized. 00:22:46 dsrguru: it depends on the implementation. at least, i don't know if it might not map the new vector to the previous one. 00:23:22 i need help 00:23:49 There, a buoy: O 00:24:28 pjb: right, all right I think I'll use vector-push-extend 00:24:33 pjb: cruel, but srsly funny 00:24:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126230 00:24:54 what does sum () do there 00:25:04 how does it write the table 00:25:09 how is it indexed 00:25:20 l_r: sum sums each value it loops over :) 00:25:36 l_r: the aref will yield a number, right? 00:25:49 l_r: read a book or pay someone to do your work. 00:26:18 l_r: you may be interested in reading gigamonkey's book. practical common lisp. it's free, online, and it contains a really nice chapter about loop. 00:26:24 l_r: I'm still wondering, why are you reading this code? 00:26:27 l_r: don't try to rush things, you may only make it harder on yourself 00:26:49 gigamonkey, i need to port it to c 00:27:07 Why? 00:27:19 And how did you get stuck with this task if you don't know Lisp? 00:28:07 drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:28:28 it's an algorithm commented in a peter norvig book . i am trying to implement it in c 00:28:38 that's all 00:28:51 l_r: don't bother writing the C code yourself, lisp can do that for you, if you write the right macros: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/97eaa03bda9cb160?hl=en 00:29:03 i am no t interested in lisp specifically 00:29:25 pjb: do you think he'll understand macros if he doesn't understand a loop? 00:29:29 l_r: well, if the only description he gives of the algorithm is the Lisp code, you're going to have to learn enough to readit. 00:29:32 read it, that is. 00:29:45 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:29:52 I really read that as "you're going to have to learn enough to reddit.". 00:30:19 Fare [~Adium@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:30:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:30:23 madnificent: macros are simplier than loop :-) 00:30:54 pjb: once you understand them, yes. but conceptually, it's much more of a mind bender. at least, it was for me. 00:30:57 l_r: just so you know, pjb is messing with your head. 00:30:58 l_r: if you've never used a lisp dialect before, you really might want to learn 00:30:58 But not necessarily simpler. Just "simplier". 00:31:02 everybody wants lisp to C, but I just want C to lisp 00:31:15 maybe i should start from an online reference 00:31:20 not from a book 00:31:25 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:31:31 l_r: that's what I'd do. use the clhs. 00:31:33 if it's just the syntax, norvig has it in dylan here http://norvig.com/ltd/test/othello2.dylan 00:31:47 no time , no interest to learn. i need to understand lisp for my needs rather than learning it. 00:31:53 dlowe: that's because all lispers want to write lisp, but are forced to write in some godawful language management has heard of before :) 00:31:55 l_r: if you really want something like lisp to C, try something like chicken scheme, if you know enough to "port" it to scheme. 00:32:19 zmv: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/97eaa03bda9cb160?hl=en 00:32:31 madnificent: you could always claim your lisp code is a "file management script" 00:32:33 l_r: do you expect to understand an engine, without studying it? face it, lisp -- like many other languages -- is a complex beast. if you want to know what it does, you'll have to understand it. 00:32:34 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:32:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has left #lisp 00:33:03 l_r: if you want to understand it, you'll have to learn it. sorry, there's no magic know-it-all dust that i've heard of. 00:33:05 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:33:15 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:33:20 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:25 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:33:44 l_r: or I suppose you can try and read the book. 00:33:54 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 00:34:04 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 00:34:16 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-22-172.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 00:34:17 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-22-172.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:17 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 00:34:25 l_r: but you can certainly use the hyperspec to look up any constructs you see in the code to find out what they do. 00:34:30 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 00:34:31 madnificent, i will try a bottom-up strategy to learning it. starting from the code i have here. when i have covered enough details to have my code done, i ll give up. for this i need an online reference with examples 00:34:34 z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:34 -!- z0d [~z0d@q.notresp.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:34:34 z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has joined #lisp 00:34:53 l_r: there are examples in the clhs. 00:34:57 l_r: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm and others. 00:35:19 madnificent: I'd rather have something that converted all my C projects to CL :) 00:35:24 pjb, gigamonkey: i doubt he'll understand. the pcl is a much faster way, i believe. 00:36:06 dlowe: oh, i hadn't thought about converts. just throw it away, you know you can do better anyways! ;-) but in all honousty, it can indeed be sad. 00:36:12 where is it lisp used these days? 00:36:14 What the URL of Xach's redirector? l1sp.com or whatever? 00:36:34 l1sp.org 00:36:56 l_r: in places that want/need fancy stuff but generally don't have the manpower to spend on it. 00:37:32 l_r: you can also try http://l1sp.org/pcl/whatever to possibly be directed to the right part of my book to read about whatever, e.g. http://l1sp.org/pcl/loop 00:37:46 l_r: in places where you need a lot of speed. There are more than one company who use it to process TCP/IP packets in less than a µs. 00:37:47 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:37:54 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 00:38:28 sykopomp: o7 00:39:45 -!- sevenless [~tom@137.205.55.74] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 00:40:43 oudeis [~oudeis@host109-150-73-67.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:44 madnificent: o7 00:44:57 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:45:55 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 00:46:29 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.104.147] has joined #lisp 00:49:13 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has joined #lisp 00:49:39 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:57 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:53:13 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 00:56:04 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 00:59:53 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-airvghoshvctncmr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:00:09 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.175.162] has joined #lisp 01:02:34 -!- captaincoffee [~russell@c-76-122-135-146.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:05:01 -!- nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:06:59 (loop for edge-list in edge-and-x-lists 01:06:59 sum (aref *edge-table* 01:06:59 (edge-index player board edge-list)))) 01:07:15 is edge-list used as index for edge-table? 01:09:03 (edge-index player board edge-list) returns the index 01:10:30 Vivitron, so what are the operands for sum in that is the indes? sum (table, ) 01:10:39 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:10:42 *if that 01:11:24 theBlack1ragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 01:12:07 e.g. (loop for i from 1 to 3 sum i) => 6, but you are summing (aref ...) instead of i 01:12:56 l_r: have you been struggling with this since you first came in this channel? Because you could have read the chapter about LOOP in PCL by now. 01:13:14 i have read it 01:13:39 Hmmm. 01:13:54 reading is one thing, getting it is another 01:15:04 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:15 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:15 -!- theBlack1ragon is now known as theBlackDragon 01:16:06 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 01:16:57 l_r: "A phrase of this form: for var in list-form steps var over all the elements of the list produced by evaluating list-form." 01:17:18 in your case var is edge-list and list-form is edge-and-x-lists 01:17:18 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:17:58 kingless [~kingless@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:19:21 thx 01:19:23 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:27:39 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:30:23 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:32:01 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:33:59 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:38:17 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.104.147] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:39:08 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-216-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:39:43 -!- zmv [~zmv@189.120.173.189] has quit [Quit: sleep / brb] 01:40:13 -!- kingless [~kingless@108-65-61-54.lightspeed.rlghnc.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 01:43:24 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-216-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:44:05 -!- Fare [~Adium@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:44:59 -!- EarlGray^ [~dalet@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:45:14 EarlGray^ [~dalet@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 01:47:32 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 01:48:10 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:50:26 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:51:50 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 01:52:23 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:14 Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 01:56:09 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:58:45 -!- backspac3 [~jt@S010600212f37ae27.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59:21 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:59:53 -!- topo____ [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:59:53 -!- topo [~topo@f053044098.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:00:02 backspac3 [~jt@S010600212f37ae27.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:14 topo [~topo@f053035215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:00:16 topo__ [~topo@f053035215.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:10:26 -!- dsrguru [~dsr@132.161.245.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:11:02 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-113.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:16 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:17 *Xach* hacks vigorously! 02:18:42 who doesn't? 02:19:00 Those who hack lethargically 02:21:07 *pinterface* may be of the latter sort. 02:23:19 pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has joined #lisp 02:27:50 Alright hackers, if I want to remove an entry from a plist based on it meeting a user-specified criteria on one of its keywords, how do I do that? 02:29:32 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:29:33 (loop for (indicator value) on plist by #'cddr unless (use-specified-criterion-p indicator) collect indicator collect value) 02:29:38 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 02:29:56 collect indicator and collect value 02:30:44 madnificent: If you paste  in emacs, does it look right? 02:30:52 and of course this change I want to be destructive 02:31:20 Pomo: destructive or non-consing? 02:31:59 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:31:59 alexandria:remove-from-plist 02:32:30 peterhil` [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 02:32:58 Actually, could a few different persons paste  in emacs and tell me if it looks correct? 02:33:10 pkhuong: I may not have my lisp terminology correct, but I want the resulting plist to be the only plist 02:33:20 I get a really ugly thing in emacs, apparently it's a "math" lambda. 02:33:22 Hexstream: it's already in emacs, should i still paste it? 02:33:25 Hexstream: it looks right here (using erc) 02:33:33 Hexstream: it looks fine 02:33:34 yes, and it looks fine 02:33:37 Ok then, it must be my font. 02:33:58 Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483B203.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:05 Speaking of consing, where is the best explanation of what causes consing? I was messing around with benchmarking toy programs last night and I noticed a ton of consing going on, in a situation where I dont' *think* there was much needed memory allocation. 02:34:10 Pomo: the only plist? 02:34:25 pnathan: allocating new data-structures 02:34:29 madnificent: So, lambda-mode works nicely. 02:34:38 explicitly or implicitly 02:35:14 -!- dodecahedron [~joel@lolnet.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:22 Just use http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/PrettyLambda#toc2 02:35:23 pnathan: typically, hidden consing comes from boxing (allocating type-generic values). 02:35:25 dodecahedron [~joel@lolnet.org] has joined #lisp 02:35:26 e.g. (cons 1 2) and (expt 10 129) 02:35:27 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:35:58 And in your .emacs put (setq lambda-symbol "") 02:36:00 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B211.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:36:03 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:07 ah, okay. boxing would explain it. 02:36:11 mickbeaver [~none@avalanche.cs.wisc.edu] has joined #lisp 02:36:11 pkhuong: I can't find the right word...but the plist resulting from the removal of an entry writes over the original 02:36:32 Pomo: that doesn't happen in lisp. How do you remove the first element from a list? 02:36:55 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 02:37:41 pkhuong: not even with setf? Hmm...I have no idea... 02:37:51 Hexstream: that lambda displays as the same lambda I have, although I am using http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/pretty-lambdada.el 02:38:03 replace it with the second element? 02:38:08 -!- backspac3 [~jt@S010600212f37ae27.no.shawcable.net] has quit [] 02:38:24 stassats: ...of a one-elemet list? ;) 02:39:34 provided that its length is >= 2 02:39:43 since NIL is constant 02:40:19 pkhuong: remf removes a plist entry destructively.. but the criterion must be indicator eqness 02:40:51 and it removes only the first one 02:41:29 Vivitron: Hah, I thought that was a typo first time. "lambdada", eh. 02:41:36 adeht: destructive as in non-consing; not as list manipulation in other languages. 02:42:29 Vivitron: Oh, ok, well doesn't that have the autosave corruption bug thing? 02:42:33 i wonder why (char-name #\) is "GREEK_SMALL_LETTER_LAMDA" 02:42:48 pkhuong: I'm not sure I get the latter meaning 02:42:57 did somebody make a typo at the unicode consortium? 02:42:58 stassats: lamda is the "correct" name I think. 02:43:11 adeht: that would be destructive like (setf aref) is destructive. 02:43:14 pkhuong: (and to me destructive does not entail non-consing) 02:43:32 I remember that someone was whining at the "extra b" in "lambda"... PG perhaps? 02:43:53 wikipedia says Lambda (uppercase , lowercase ; Greek:  or , lamda or lamtha) 02:43:54 sipo [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:24 pkhuong: remf may modify the conses (if there are any) 02:44:38 Well, thank god we don't have "lamtha". That sounds too... lispy ;P 02:44:58 it may have been pronounced as labda sometime ago 02:45:05 adeht: that's still not the same as (setf aref); the changes aren't necesarily reflected in all the references to the plist... because plist aren't actual objects, just conventions. 02:45:38 Hexstream: I haven't had it happend to me and I've been using pretty lambda for a couple months, but I don't understand it well enough to make guarantees 02:45:42 adeht: your way is about performance; Pomo seemed to be after the semantics of in-place mutation, like (setf aref) or (setf gethash). 02:46:51 pkhuong: right.. my version is not destructive in any way.. I gave it before Pomo mentioned destructiveness 02:46:54 Hexstream: did pg whine because with B it's longer to type? 02:47:02 stassats: Bingo. 02:47:03 i hope he fixed this in Arc 02:47:11 At least, I think so. 02:47:33 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:47:39 and Arc doesn't support unicode (or didn't) so it can't use a proper lambda 02:47:45 adeht: your way of interpreting destructive (by pointing to remf). 02:47:54 Hexstream: I just checked an emacs backup .lisp and it has healthy plain text lambdas 02:48:06 (defun delete-object (obj-id)(setf *object-list* (remove-if #'lambda (object) (equal (getf object :obj-id) obj-id)) *object-list*)) 02:48:17 Ok, I'll try the lambdada version. 02:48:23 That's my attempted solution; however, it has problems 02:48:31 pkhuong: remf may (or may not) perform in-place mutation 02:48:35 its lambda is borked 02:48:55 pkhuong: the way I interpret "destructive" is the way found in the CLHS glossary 02:48:57 s/#'/(/ 02:49:03 destructive operations a la nreverse aren't about semantics; they offer opportunities for improved performance in exchange for guarantees from the programmer that the old values can be abused arbitrarily. 02:49:14 I'm using setf incorrectly (Odd number of arguments according to the debugger) 02:49:22 adeht: which isn't very useful when your interlocutor doesn't. 02:49:28 pkhuong: :) 02:49:34 Pomo: see my messages 02:50:08 what is the correct terminology for "mutates into the result you want"? 02:50:12 just in case, it means "replace #' with (" 02:50:13 adeht: hence my question on destructive as in non-consing or, for in-place mutation. 02:50:33 stassats: remove-from-plist? 02:51:16 (defun delete-object (obj-id) (setf *object-list* (remove-if (lambda (object) (equal (getf object :obj-id) obj-id)) *object-list*))) 02:51:37 you missed some parenthesis 02:52:01 pkhuong: I see 02:52:39 stassats: That fixed it, thank you! 02:53:20 (you can still use #', it'll look #'(lambda (..) ...), but i don't like #' with lambda, so i'm pushing my agenda) 02:54:06 #' is completely optional and is just a matter of preference 02:54:07 Vivitron: Hum, lambdada doesn't work nice for me, it disables font coloring in the REPL... Anyway, I guess I'll do without this fancy lambda thing for now. Next time I upgrade my Ubuntu I'll probably have a default font that has a proper lambda glyph anyway. 02:55:04 stassats: unless your `lambda' is not eq `cl:lambda' ;) 02:55:11 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-18-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:55:11 doh! 02:55:35 or if you're not evaluating it 02:55:41 adeht: if my lambda isn't cl:lambda, #'(lambda ...) is most probably broken. 02:55:59 pkhuong: yep.. and (lambda ...) may be ok 02:56:10 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:56:44 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@24.106.207.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:57:45 or if #' is not the standard reader macro 02:57:48 pkhuong: (of course #' may also be my:function.. so "most probably" is right ;) 02:58:33 (it ain't #lisp-worthy if you don't mention all corner-cases) 03:00:13 wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has joined #lisp 03:01:13 what are persnickety friends for? 03:04:02 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.237.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:06 leo2007 [~leo@120.37.13.145] has joined #lisp 03:12:07 dsrguru [~dsr@132.161.245.46] has joined #lisp 03:13:40 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:14:03 sacho [~sacho@95-42-127-126.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 03:17:03 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-127-126.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:18:36 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-18-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 03:20:32 -!- ThomasH [4b1349ad@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 03:20:37 pkhuong: Destructors, Finalizers, and Synchronization: Boehm, Hans-J. 03:20:58 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:09 he actually describes exactly the problem 03:26:36 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:26:55 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:29:41 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-ggulxdsaiekznrii] has joined #lisp 03:30:52 -!- dsrguru [~dsr@132.161.245.46] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:32:15 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:34:33 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:41:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.23] has joined #lisp 03:41:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.23] has quit [Changing host] 03:41:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:41:07 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:42:02 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:45:27 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.37.13.145] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 03:46:23 mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:46:44 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:47:39 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:47:47 wolfpython [~wolf@114.222.248.90] has joined #lisp 03:48:28 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:51:32 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-243.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 03:52:23 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:52:42 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 03:52:47 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:53:20 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:53:23 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:53 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-111.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:54:24 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 03:56:17 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:07 dofme [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 04:03:03 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 04:03:12 hello. i want to run some lisp function daily with cron. how can I create a script that loads asdf system and runs a function? 04:03:39 What's your Lisp system? 04:03:52 ccl 04:04:03 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8D3B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:05:05 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 04:05:27 load a system beforehand, use ccl:save-application 04:05:48 Or maybe something like "ccl --batch --load /path/to/foo.lisp", where foo.lisp does whatever you want. 04:06:43 i'd prefer to load it on each run in case i make some changes 04:07:33 rme i'll try that 04:08:23 then just make a script to generate a new image 04:09:16 i wouldn't like my scripts breaking when I update some library 04:09:37 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:09:51 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:52 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:09:52 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 04:09:55 yeah good point 04:10:01 also the update procedure isn't atomic 04:10:35 hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 04:11:04 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:05 it'd be nice to have something like buildapp for clozure 04:11:18 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8DBFE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:11:47 so that all the scripts are in the same image 04:12:10 ccl:save-application doesn't do that? 04:12:35 it does, but you'll have to do all the plumbing yourself 04:12:55 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:13:38 Some people have asked for a way to embed command-line flag settings in the heap image file. The ccl maintainers don't really like that, and would prefer for people to use a wrapper shell script. 04:14:04 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 04:16:26 still, having to build image every time feels more like I'm programming in C++ than dynamic language. I think I'll try ccl --batch --load thing for now 04:16:39 -!- wanderingelf [4817e03b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.72.23.224.59] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:17:40 first write it interactively, when you're done, save an image 04:18:00 i don't imagine you're planning on modifying it daily 04:18:22 I'm not, but don't like having to rebuild image every time I make some changes 04:18:49 dofme: still it may be a good idea to save an image with "stable" libraries so that your script can load faster 04:18:51 so, write everything you want at the first try, and you wouldn't have to make any changes 04:19:26 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 04:20:14 especially with cron, it's desirable so that it's resilient to changes to the environment, because you may not notice an error right away 04:21:54 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 04:22:45 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:13 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA1072.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:24:29 -!- pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:26:00 i understand the pros and cons. what i'm doing is still work in progress, so I'll take slower start up and potential library update breaking my script. and when I'm doing developing it i'll make an image 04:27:08 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 04:27:44 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:07 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:14 is there any reason hunchetoot would fail to file values associated with a prefix in the *dispatch-table*? 04:33:53 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 04:35:35 i am looking at it in the inspector and it seems to contain the values that should be there, but putting the urls in the browser only give me the default welcome page 04:36:14 did you update hunchetoot recently? 04:36:27 there were some incompatible changes 04:38:30 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:39:34 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 04:39:57 stassats: yes, i have 1.2.1. suggestions of walk arounds? 04:40:25 is there a way to suppress "To load "quickproject" Load 1 ASDF system: etc output? 04:42:16 bind *[load|compile]-[verbose|print]* to NIL and pass :verbose nil to asdf:load-system 04:42:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has joined #lisp 04:42:38 (if you save an image, you don't have such problem in the first place) 04:42:50 i'll have other problems :) 04:44:03 I am using quickload instead of asdf to load local systems by the way, it makes script start up 2 seconds instead of 10 04:44:30 chp [~user@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:44:53 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-18-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:45:04 quickload will use asdf 04:45:53 if it does why the 5x difference? 04:46:12 because you're measuring something wrong 04:46:24 nope 04:49:20 -!- rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:49:27 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-18-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:49:44 and quickload passes :verbose nil by default 04:50:29 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 04:50:44 it still loads system far slower, at least in here 04:51:05 and yeah it shuts down verbose asdf output, but still has it's own 04:51:34 quickload is using asdf, so there must be some failure in your measuring methodology 04:51:59 (time (asdf:load-system :any-system)) 04:52:12 dofme: is the system already loaded? 04:52:30 is it compiled already in both cases? 04:52:40 Did the files have to be read from disk into the FS cache? 04:53:17 it's faster regardless if it's loaded or not 04:53:25 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-18-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:53:34 pkhuong i don't know how to check that 04:54:11 dofme: an easy way is to load first with asdf, then with quicklisp, or to repeatedly load the same system a couple times. 04:54:26 Of course, you want to do that in a fresh process each time. 04:54:40 dofme: you can try (let ((*standard-output* (make-broadcast-stream))) ...) to keep things quiet 04:55:06 (there are other stream variables...) 04:55:10 good idea 04:55:34 that might be too inclusive 04:55:38 yes, it must be spending 90% of its time printing to the screen. 04:55:57 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:56:06 stassats: I assume he'd wrap it over just the system-loading code.. 04:56:26 did i say pass :verbose nil to asdf:load-system? 04:57:13 dofme: * load first with asdf, then with quicklisp, and then in the reverse order. 04:57:51 adeht: but many libraries don't load cleanly, and you may want to see warnings in your own code 04:58:45 most of you probably have drakma. loading it from a freshly started process takes 0.95 seconds ql:quickload, and 6.9 seconds with (asdf:load-system :drakma :verbose nil) 04:59:02 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:59:46 stassats: there's *debug-io*, *error-output*, *trace-output*, etc. 05:00:08 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 05:00:26 I got about .4 seconds slower on QL 05:00:28 adeht: but they don't know whose code warnings they're printing 05:00:58 Kicking it on a OSX system with SBCL. Not much data, hope it provides info, dofme 05:00:59 stassats: sure.. my solution may not fit all needs :) 05:03:12 quickload basically does (let ((*load-verbose* nil) (*compile-verbose* nil) (*load-print* nil) (*compile-print* nil)) (handler-bind ((warning #'muffle-warning)) (asdf:load-system :drakma :verbose nil))) 05:03:23 to prevent output 05:04:30 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:04:49 or shorter: (let (*load-verbose* *compile-verbose* *load-print* *compile-print*) (handler-bind ((warning #'muffle-warning)) (asdf:load-system :drakma :verbose nil))) 05:07:30 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.192.222] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:08:08 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:08:29 I love how the writers of save-application decided for me I need to quit repl every single time I want to save an image 05:09:15 they didn't 05:09:58 the process messes up the memory irrevocably 05:10:16 why? 05:11:37 because it allows to achieve better results with less cost? 05:13:13 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:13:13 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:13:39 less cost being what? 05:14:17 whatever the implementers decided is important for them 05:14:20 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:56 lol, can you be any more vague in defending this retarded behavior? 05:17:38 yes, you don't need to know the details, just remember that it's neither arbitrary, nor retarded 05:17:41 somehow clisp manages to save an image without crashing repl, why can't ccl? 05:17:45 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-46.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:05 because it hates you and wants you to be unhappy 05:18:21 clisp is a different implementation which is implemented in a completely different way 05:18:22 dofme: perhaps you should implement it for ccl if it's so trivial 05:18:27 there's no ";; and then we quit for no good reason" to be found in save-application . That's the defense. You don't seem genuinely interested in the implementation, beyond wishing to excise some spiteful code that doesn't exist as such, so why expect a detailed look at the implementation in reply? 05:19:01 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-89.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:19:57 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 05:21:53 ayrnieu his argument looked to me like "I don't know why it quits but I'll defend it anyway". if there's a reasonable explanation why it does that, and why it can't possibly save an image without quitting, then fine 05:23:25 dofme: save-application wants to run in an environment where it's sure that there are no other threads messing around while it's trying to write out a consistent heap. 05:24:59 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 05:25:04 It might be possible to come back afterwards (maybe by forking and writing the heap in the child), but there's still issues of stealing locks etc. 05:28:05 ok sounds reasonable. still i wish i had a choice in cases where I'm not launching new threads (which most of the time) 05:28:17 which is* 05:28:35 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 05:30:45 ccl always is running more than one thread. But I agree it would be nice to live through save-application. 05:30:56 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:32:37 I usually write a script that loads system and saves an image, and don't save it directly from repl 05:35:56 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 05:35:57 *rtoym* almost never saves an image. Just reload. 05:36:46 _nix001 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 05:39:04 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-216-238.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:39:07 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:41:19 -!- _nix001 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:41:42 -!- wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:42:10 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 05:42:25 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-127-126.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 05:42:34 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:44:00 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:44:27 wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has joined #lisp 05:45:19 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-127-126.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:46:13 vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:09 -!- dofme [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 05:53:39 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 05:55:23 QinGW [~user@60.247.127.3] has joined #lisp 05:56:05 What's the difference *expressions* with *code*? 05:56:54 I see the book <>, the first section of Chapter 10 said: 05:57:11 This chapter shows how to cross the line from expressions to code 05:57:21 What's is meaning? 05:58:04 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:58:07 expression n. 1. an object, often used to emphasize the use of the object to encode or represent information in a specialized format, such as program text. ``The second expression in a 05:58:08 let form is a list of bindings.'' 2. the textual notation used to notate an object in a source file. ``The expression 'sample is equivalent to (quote sample).'' 05:58:26 code n. 1. Trad. any representation of actions to be performed, whether conceptual or as an actual object, such as forms, lambda expressions, objects of type function, text in a source file, or instruction sequences in a compiled file. This is a generic term; the specific nature of the representation depends on its context. 2. (of a character) a character code. 06:02:50 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 06:06:11 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 06:06:35 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:07:19 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 06:07:59 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:35 stassats`: How to turn one expression to code? and vice versa 06:08:56 proclaim it as such 06:09:28 code usually consists of individual expressions 06:12:16 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:12:45 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 06:12:48 -!- xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:14 (eval '(+ 1 2 3)) itself is code? and '(+ 1 2 3) is expresison? 06:14:50 both are expressions and both are code 06:15:43 -!- PECCU is now known as peccu 06:16:15 QinGW: I think Graham is using "expression" to mean "lists" and "code" to mean "lists that are executed". 06:17:08 -!- micro` [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:12 vrook: yes, I got it. 06:19:18 vrook: expressions have a strict definition in common lisp syntax: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_e.htm#expression 06:19:22 thanks you two. 06:19:41 antifuchs: I don't think Graham is using that meaning in Chapter 10. 06:19:47 if you look at the context 06:21:33 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-88-186.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:22:20 that's what i cited 06:23:00 micro` [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:49 stassats`: I just noticed 06:24:25 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:25:02 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-18-241.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 06:26:56 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-32-216.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:29:11 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Quit: am0c] 06:29:53 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 06:31:48 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-58-60.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:34:50 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:35:41 KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 06:38:19 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 06:38:39 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-7.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:38:53 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has joined #lisp 06:39:23 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has left #lisp 06:40:44 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:42:42 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:44:49 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has left #lisp 06:45:06 chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has joined #lisp 06:46:21 DamienCassou [~cassou@fibz10.fh-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 06:49:12 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:50:13 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:50:15 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:50:50 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 06:52:12 -!- cscolt is now known as list 06:52:34 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-127-126.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:55:08 quasisane [~sanep@c-24-218-184-186.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:09 -!- list is now known as cs-colt 06:57:43 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 07:01:23 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:01:23 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 07:03:31 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.87.217] has joined #lisp 07:05:41 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:07:42 -!- vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:59 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-7.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:08:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:10:13 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-127-126.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 07:15:06 rahul [~rjain@66-234-32-156.nyc.cable.nyct.net] has joined #lisp 07:15:34 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:16:06 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 07:21:38 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:22:53 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@fibz10.fh-potsdam.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:23:24 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:03 -!- pers [~user@96-25-162-104.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:25:37 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-48-204.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:33 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:27:52 good morning 07:31:28 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:35:04 mvilleneuve: hi 07:36:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:38:56 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:39:59 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.87.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:40:20 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:40:23 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-krrotirwrtolecun] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 is there a built-in function for printing timestamp? 07:44:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:44:10 as well as parsing the output produced by it back to POSIX time 07:45:01 nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-54-33.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 07:46:03 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 07:46:59 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:47:51 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 07:47:57 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.75] has joined #lisp 07:48:02 Good morning. 07:48:38 gigamonkey: you were looking for a git interface? 07:50:47 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:51:01 pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has joined #lisp 07:53:13 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:54:56 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:55:12 pspace [~andrew@137.148.253.64] has joined #lisp 07:55:37 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:55:57 -!- pspace [~andrew@137.148.253.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:57 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 07:56:24 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 07:59:05 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:00:54 ihji [~user@vpn.fasoo.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-72.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:04:29 DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has joined #lisp 08:04:37 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:04:45 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 08:05:46 gigamonkey: found it. Seems like 3b has started a project to create bindings for libgit2 http://libgit2.github.com/ at https://github.com/3b/3b-cl-libgit2 08:05:49 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has left #lisp 08:06:22 <_3b> there is another one as well, not sure if it has gotten farther than mine or not 08:06:55 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:07:13 Oh I just typed 3b instead of C-r 3b 08:07:30 _3b: how far did you get? 08:07:45 *_3b* doesn't remember, which is one reason i can't really compare them :) 08:07:51 :) 08:08:00 Do you have a URL for the other one? 08:08:24 <_3b> looks like https://github.com/russell/cl-git 08:09:32 _3b: thanks 08:10:31 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:10:52 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 08:15:12 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:16:43 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 08:16:46 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:17:32 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:18:56 _3b: you used grovel? 08:19:19 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-150-22.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:19:33 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:23 *_3b* usually starts with verazzano and hand edits from there, don't remember what i did specifically with that one though 08:21:31 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:31 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:21:31 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 08:22:33 <_3b> looks like that's what i did there too 08:25:12 slash_ [~unknown@p54B862A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:19 how can I send a image in irc? 08:26:07 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 08:26:08 <_3b> put it on the net somewhere and paste a URL? 08:26:25 with DCC . But it's a hassle to receive even if you send it to one person; send it to channel and people will be very irritated with you. 08:26:32 use http://imgur.com/ 08:27:54 DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has joined #lisp 08:28:06 Hi 08:28:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:28:37 ehu [~ehuels@109.35.20.248] has joined #lisp 08:29:05 -!- ihji [~user@vpn.fasoo.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:29:16 is 'simple-array the most special type of string like "abc"? 08:29:17 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-28-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:29:17 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-28-50.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:29:17 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 H4ns: some days ago you proposed me to write a reader-macro so that I can avoid using strings to keep spacing information in my DSL for slides. You proposed to use #'file-position. Can you tell me how please? 08:29:45 (type-of "abc") ;=>(Simple-Array character (3)) 08:31:01 http://img03.p1img.com/photos/img/61/77/34/big_617734.jpg 08:31:02 nice 08:31:05 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:15 thx 08:32:16 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:32:34 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:32:34 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:32:44 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 08:32:45 DamienCassou: https://github.com/nikodemus/SBCL/tree/pending # the topmost commit here fixes your style-warning issue in SBCL 08:33:03 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 08:33:04 nikodemus: thank you, that was fast 08:33:07 -!- xristos is now known as Guest91344 08:33:31 DamienCassou: what exactly do you want to know? 08:36:38 H4ns: in an expression like https://github.com/DamienCassou/DSLides/blob/master/clos.lisp#L96, there is much more indentation in the source code than I want in the slide. I thus need to get the column position of the #\[ and substract this amount from all indentations for the subsequent lines (I guess :-)) 08:37:28 H4ns: I thought your proposal to use file-position could help. Unfortunately, it does not give me the column, but the character position from the beginning of the file 08:38:10 DamienCassou: for one, you could use a stream that keeps track of column and row (the sbcl has an example of that) 08:38:26 nostoi [~nostoi@109.Red-79-154-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:11 DamienCassou: or, and that was what i was thinking, you can just read the file into memory and post-process it one the reader is done with it (and told you, by the way of your macro, where in the file your expressions are located in the input file) 08:39:47 DamienCassou: http://www.sbcl.org/manual/Character-counting-input-stream.html#Character-counting-input-stream 08:41:24 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.0.102] has joined #lisp 08:42:20 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2AB4.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:43:53 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-cqamcwrqluuidzyd] has joined #lisp 08:44:21 BrianRice` [~water@174-31-130-171.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:21 -!- H4ns [~user@p57A9EDAF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: bbl] 08:44:59 debian's apt source is always slow in update 08:45:03 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-122-121.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:45:04 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 08:45:41 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-152-200.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:26 who konw about date for debian to udpate its sbcl? 08:48:48 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-161-147.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:49:05 wow seems everyone here compile install sbcl...:-) I should have installed ubuntu maybe 08:49:11 _3b: so the verrazano step is done only once in the beginning of the project? And what if a newer version of the c lib changes the structs? 08:49:25 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:49:37 <_3b> right, if that happens, i get to edit stuff by hand :/ 08:49:51 leyyer_su [~user@182.151.66.21] has joined #lisp 08:50:25 _3b: and is it possible to leave what verrazano generates in peace and only _add_ to it? I don't have any experience, just thinking loud. 08:50:48 <_3b> it is possible, i just tend to not like what it generates 08:51:14 <_3b> not really something it could do better though, since C doesn't really have enough information about intent for #defines and such 08:51:36 -!- leyyer_su [~user@182.151.66.21] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:51:51 _3b: I understand. 08:52:14 chenbing: i also guess most people here don't use distribution-provided SBCL, but compile their own (well, unless they're on ArchLinux or Gentoo, in which case the distribution versions are very fresh) 08:53:09 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:53:34 _3b: thank you. 08:55:16 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:55:41 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 08:56:59 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@109.Red-79-154-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:57:57 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:58:26 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 08:58:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-113.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:59:21 KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 08:59:43 chenbing: building your own (or installing the monthly binaries is very simple) 09:00:20 but if should also be able to pick sbcl from unstable while keeping the rest stable/testing 09:00:35 s/but if/but you/ 09:00:47 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 09:01:08 benny [~benny@i577A2AB4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:01:20 i /think/ unstable tends to have an sbcl only a month or two old 09:01:55 -!- KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:01:55 -!- KingNato_ is now known as KingNato 09:02:08 pspace [~andrew@108-93-98-162.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:28 nod 09:03:19 -!- Guest91344 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.35.20.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:49 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:55 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-113.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:18 chenbing: 09:08:47 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 09:09:35 is 'simple-array is always a strinig? oh what's the most detailed type of "abc"? (type-of "abc");=>(SIIMPLE-ARRAY CHARACTER (3)) 09:09:50 akovalenko: ?? 09:10:09 -!- KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:17 KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 09:10:29 chenbing: another option is to rebuild a recent enough SBCL package (as package, that is, with debuild, pbuilder, etc); that could work on debian-stable with a package from unstable.. 09:10:54 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:10:58 there are many kinds of simple-arrays, not just simple strings. 09:11:16 (class-of "abc") 09:11:19 and there are non-simple strings, too 09:11:29 (type-of "abc") 09:13:00 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has left #lisp 09:13:15 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:13:20 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:13:45 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:14:42 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 09:17:24 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:17:58 It's a pity class-of is not a typecase ,I would want a combiner include string to concatenate 09:18:39 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:19:02 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:19:18 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-aggutchzygaeqaca] has joined #lisp 09:21:15 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 09:23:01 -!- QinGW [~user@60.247.127.3] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:24:32 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-113.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:25:23 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Cryotank2011] 09:25:37 (equal (class-of "abc" ) #) result in error , is not a correct read-macro? 09:27:48 <_3b> #< is the read-macro for things which can't be READ, so always errors 09:27:56 H4ns [~user@e179039112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:28:32 -!- dodecahedron [~joel@lolnet.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:28:46 dodecahedron [~joel@lolnet.org] has joined #lisp 09:28:48 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:29:44 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:30:00 ok ,I will use sequence to replace it to implement combiner 09:30:23 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-126-136.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:30:32 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:32:53 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 09:35:18 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.200.3] has joined #lisp 09:36:57 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 09:41:14 -!- pspace [~andrew@108-93-98-162.lightspeed.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:37 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:43:53 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54B862A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 09:44:15 entrix [~entrix@95-24-111-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 09:44:39 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:47:40 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-198-51.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:40 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-152-200.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:55:22 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:56:22 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:56:31 -!- wadexing [~wadexing@219.234.141.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:49 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:57:53 dlowe [~dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 10:00:43 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-54.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:59 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:04:15 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg_] 10:04:19 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:06:14 -!- jjc [~jjc@50-46-182-239.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:07:47 although (type-of "abc") doesn't return 'string ,'string is a real sequence type :-) it's ok with my combiner now 10:07:58 ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 10:08:39 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:09:37 What are you doing? 10:10:16 *attila_lendvai* has pushed some doc for stefil due to popular request 10:10:33 using type-of to dispatch programmatically sounds like a bad idea 10:10:49 you either use TYPEP, TYPECASE or possibly SUBTYPEP 10:11:03 ..or array-element-type and the like. 10:11:31 not that I find chenbing's description of what he's doing easy to understand.. 10:11:50 I just create a facade of combine cases string vector number list 10:12:42 design patterns drasticly easy with lisp lol 10:13:00 It's still hard to understand. "combine" === concatenate? (probably not, or there would be no NUMBER) 10:14:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.200.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:14:32 chenbing: many "design patterns" are really patterns that describe how to circumvent problems of a certain programming language. i find that the gof-patterns are rarely useful in lisp, because we have different implementation techniques available. 10:14:36 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:15:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126234 10:15:38 just a practise 10:16:32 chenbing: make combiner be a generic function instead. 10:18:26 -!- shoerain [~mortimer@wc249-118.resnet.stonybrook.edu] has left #lisp 10:18:32 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:35 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082914E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:44 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:20:05 yep It's some difficult for me to choice proper english expression 10:21:50 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B3262C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:22:12 chenbing: I'm not a native speaker too, so my advice may be useful: when you aren't understood, just try to express the same thing in different ways *using different words* 10:24:08 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:24:20 H4ns: My point is such a liberty from other language too 10:25:30 chenbing: all types you use in that exercise *are* classes, so defgeneric is perfectly able to dispatch on them. 10:25:55 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:32 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 10:27:03 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 10:27:21 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:27:30 -!- H4ns [~user@e179039112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: brb] 10:28:11 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:28:36 chenbing: (combine 3 t) => type error, is it what you want? I'd guess that you want to fall back to LIST for any /pair/ of values when there is no more specific operation. 10:29:18 H4ns [~user@e179039112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:29:21 I just test all cases ,randomize these combination 10:30:08 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 10:32:01 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:33:39 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:18 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:34:39 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:35:37 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 10:37:10 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 10:39:17 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:40:28 akovalenko: I am not able to solove all cases ,It's just a exercise:-) 10:41:35 -!- Noctifer [~Noctifer@82.113.119.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:43:20 anvandare_ [~anvandare@78-22-153-169.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 10:44:57 benkard_ [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:1d96:35be:c5e7:a131] has joined #lisp 10:45:14 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:45:36 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-150-22.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:47:56 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:47:56 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 10:48:44 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:50:05 benkard_ [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:50:52 chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:52 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-161-226.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:01 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:1d96:35be:c5e7:a131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:53:10 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 10:53:36 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-198-51.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:57:15 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: "If an MMO game is serving more people than it's bandwidth can handle, then you get lag. Lag leads to anger, anger leads to hate and hate leads to people not coming back again..." -- Dean Harding] 10:57:19 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 10:59:12 ehu [~ehuels@109.37.146.19] has joined #lisp 11:03:38 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.37.146.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:04:59 udzinari [90a0621f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.160.98.31] has joined #lisp 11:05:01 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:09:44 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:09:46 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:11:56 minion is out again? 11:14:01 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:14:22 Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-146-216.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:14:33 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:14:33 hello 11:14:45 vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:57 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:15:06 Harag [~phil@41.56.44.202] has joined #lisp 11:15:35 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@host109-150-73-67.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:15:59 hello Levente 11:16:09 I could use some help with digital signature verification 11:16:33 I'm developing an android application backed up with a lisp server 11:17:01 I'd like to check the license signature on the server side 11:17:15 I do have the public key in X.509 base64 format 11:17:17 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 11:17:29 I also have the signed-data as clear text 11:17:45 and the signature as a base64 encoded string 11:17:51 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:09 the algorithm used is SHA1 with RSA 11:18:20 what lisp library can help me? any tips? 11:19:33 Ironclad, most likely. 11:19:36 I thought that ironclad would fit, but it seems that it doesn't handle X.509 keys 11:19:55 ironclad, maybe... but that's the only one i know of 11:20:52 Levente: it's possible that you'll need to connect to a c library, unless you intend to write it yourself. 11:21:13 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:21:30 ironclad does have a VERIFY-SIGNATURE function, but that takes some DSA-... objects 11:22:19 Levente: Ah, so the SHA1 and RSA bits don't actually matter, you're looking for a x.509 library and not a crypto library? 11:23:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 11:23:49 Odin-, yes, I just want to check whether the signature is ok or not 11:24:16 the problem is AFAICT that I have these base64 strings and ironclad expects some lower level data 11:24:34 or higher, if you will... :) 11:25:15 I could probably extract the DSA bits from the public key offline, don't I? 11:25:48 DSA is a completely different algorithm. 11:26:15 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 11:26:33 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:28:24 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: benkard] 11:30:27 FFI to libcrypto? 11:31:32 vrook, writing some FFI would be the last thing I want 11:31:59 Levente: why not (just interested) 11:32:28 madnificent, might take too much time? 11:32:56 I could just as well call a linux command line tool if I knew how to do that... 11:33:13 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 11:35:41 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:38:43 Levente: i've never done it, so it's hard for me to estimate. 11:39:21 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:39:27 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.98] has joined #lisp 11:40:28 Ironclad has rsa.lisp next to dsa.lisp, but rsa.lisp doesn't have verify-signature. Maybe it wouldn't be hard to write starting from dsa's verify signature. 11:42:37 vrook, there it is certainly... 11:43:13 ffi isn't hard in cl and there's enough libs using ffi out there for inspiration 11:43:40 aerique, I'm an experienced lisper and I do know what it takes to use ffi 11:43:44 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:44:03 -!- anvandare_ [~anvandare@78-22-153-169.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:45:19 Levente: could you cheat? rsa.lisp has encrypt and decrypt. So encrypt / decrypt a dummy message and see if it matches. 11:46:04 hmm... I can extract the base64 public key, so I could create the IRONCLAD:RSA-PUBLIC-KEY 11:46:41 vrook, that tells nothing about whether the signed data was really signed by the private key 11:46:51 yeah, nevermind 11:48:12 *p_l* personally thinks of dropping ironclad and using FFI to Crypt++ 11:48:19 vrook, I'm pretty sure it would be simple to write the check-signature for RSA by someone who knows what is it about 11:48:25 quek [~ancient@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 11:49:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:49:49 Levente: I recommend using CFFI to link with OpenSSL 11:50:19 Levente: the thing is, with crypto, you want peer-reviewed code - and OpenSSL gets many more eyeballs 11:51:12 Levente: signature verification is a matter of computing a digest and doing some bignum math. the most difficult part, i found, was parsing the arbitrary formats for storing key information. 11:51:39 Xach, I agree, it's not that hard 11:51:40 Levente: ironclad can help with the digest 11:51:59 Erm. RSA signatures are pretty much inverse operations. Verifying a signature is the same as encrypting a message. 11:52:06 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:52:27 Levente: i don't know of anything out of the box. i have something for pgp signature verification, but it's incomplete. 11:53:03 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:53:16 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:53:41 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:31 -!- vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:56:47 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-48-204.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:44 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 12:01:07 -!- xristos is now known as Guest16238 12:01:10 Odin-, are you sure? 12:04:43 Levente: Yes. RSA is pretty damn simple, all told. Feel free to look it up, though. 12:04:49 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-145-17.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 12:05:39 does anyone have a copy of adns.cl (the dns server written in cl) handy? 12:06:27 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:06:56 Levente: encryption and signature verification are not the same. 12:07:49 -!- Guest16238 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:10 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 12:09:47 Well, no, not the whole signature verification. RSA is _slow_ so you use a hash; the origin point "decrypts" the hash value and transmits _that_; the receiver "encrypts" the transmitted value and independently calculates the hash; if they match, the signature is verified. 12:13:28 Odin-, if I base decode the signature I get a 256 byte long array 12:13:55 so I decrypt that and compare with the SHA1 hash? 12:14:05 zephyrfalcon [~zephyrfal@adsl-074-229-200-227.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:33 the SHA1 digest is only 20 bytes 12:15:22 dfox_ [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has joined #lisp 12:15:28 -!- dfox [~dfox@rei.ipv6.dfox.org] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:15:48 I don't know much about x.509; I would presume the actual value to be compared is buried somewhere in there. 12:16:25 Odin-, I already extracted the public key exponent and modulus using Java 12:18:27 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:18:37 Levente: How, exactly, is the signature presented? 12:19:27 Odin-, as base64 string that extracts into 256 bytes 12:20:09 And that's all the information you have on its structure? 12:20:15 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:43 spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 12:22:28 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 12:23:05 The thing is, there's a number of levels to this damn thing. If you don't know _exactly_ what you're doing, you should be relying on existing libraries; since Ironclad is at too low a level, OpenSSL is your best bet, even though it requires going through FFI. 12:23:26 Any ideas why this does not work the way I expect: (remove-duplicates #((cons 1 2) (cons 1 3) (cons 2 1)) :key 'car) ; I'm trying to get #((1 . 2) (2 . 1)) 12:24:59 Odin-, unfortunately yes, but I can debug android's Java implementation further 12:25:10 oudeis [~oudeis@host109-150-73-67.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:56 Borbus: (print #((cons 1 2))) can give an idea 12:27:12 Damn.. forgot the # was like a quote 12:27:13 (print `#(,(cons 1 2))) can give an idea how to make it work 12:27:24 Or just #((1 2)) 12:27:31 *akovalenko* would write it like #((1 . 2)) 12:27:40 duh 12:27:46 #((1 . 2)), yeah 12:29:50 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 12:31:00 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has joined #lisp 12:31:20 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has left #lisp 12:32:44 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 12:33:05 -!- xristos is now known as Guest94699 12:38:08 -!- Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-146-216.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:38:37 # makes it a vector, right? 12:38:44 i mean, "interpret this as a vector" 12:39:19 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-46.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:39:23 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:40:28 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-198-34.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:43:31 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 12:44:56 -!- udzinari [90a0621f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.144.160.98.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:49:24 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:09 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: benkard] 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Connection reset by peer] 13:03:55 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 13:04:15 troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has joined #lisp 13:04:35 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:05:47 xristos_ [~x@research.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 13:05:59 -!- xristos_ is now known as xristos 13:06:54 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:06:56 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:09:39 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:11:35 anvandare: #(...) is read as a simple vector, yes. #foo's meaning depends on the read-macro on #f -- ie. #xdeadbeef is read as hexadecimal number, due to #x 13:12:02 ... hey, deadbeef IS a valid hex number :D 13:13:24 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/X_Alph_9.htm 13:13:28 so why isn't # in there? 13:14:27 -!- mickbeaver [~none@avalanche.cs.wisc.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:17:27 -!- Athas is now known as YuleAthas 13:17:32 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:17:44 it's not a symbol 13:18:05 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_d.htm 13:18:06 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 13:18:23 specifically: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dh.htm 13:20:12 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:20:22 -!- zephyrfalcon [~zephyrfal@adsl-074-229-200-227.sip.gnv.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: zephyrfalcon] 13:21:31 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:22:34 ah, thanks 13:24:33 nikodemus: i added fork info! 13:24:48 hakzsam [~hakzsam@salle203.emi.u-bordeaux1.fr] has joined #lisp 13:29:56 -!- Harag [~phil@41.56.44.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:31:37 thanks! 13:32:33 hah. i think this is the first time i use MAKE-BROADCAST-STREAM with actual arguments :) 13:35:50 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timeout: 260 seconds] 13:57:11 _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.107.84] has joined #lisp 13:58:41 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:59:33 Harag [~phil@41.56.44.202] has joined #lisp 14:03:35 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.98] has quit [Quit: am0c] 14:04:04 -!- Harag [~phil@41.56.44.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:10 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@host109-150-73-67.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:06:21 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@87-95-54-33.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:06:27 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:36 G'morning all. 14:07:07 hello nyef 14:17:20 danishman [~kvirc@93.160.236.42] has joined #lisp 14:20:25 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:26 H4ns` [~user@e179039112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:36 -!- H4ns 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15:24:41 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 15:24:42 teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has joined #lisp 15:25:00 osa1: you can treat lists as sets. works for small sets. 15:25:03 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 15:25:07 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:15 osa1: there are libraries that provide it 15:25:16 common lisp has functions to work on lists as sets 15:25:33 and yes, you can use lists as sets 15:25:49 osa1: or you can treat hash-tables as sets (works for larger sets, but this way there are more functions to write) 15:26:12 osa1: see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/c_conses.htm 15:26:16 akovalenko: what would be values in this case? t? 15:26:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:26:35 for functional (as in functional programming) set library, see fset 15:27:09 whatever you like (I'd take either T or value == key (but the latter is inconvenient when nil is valid key)) 15:27:21 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:27:23 p_l: I'm new at common lisp, how can I load this libraries? I have quicklisp installed 15:28:02 (ql:quickload "fset")? 15:28:15 onizu [onizu@27.106.7.8] has joined #lisp 15:28:18 hello 15:28:35 anybody programming in AutoLISP? 15:28:37 luis: preoccupied/sidetracked yesterday, but at a glance optimizing bitfields like you suggest would take a fair bit of reworking of the definition structure for numerous things .. expand- calls avoid a method call but that's about it 15:28:40 (autocad lisp) 15:28:49 onizu: unlikely 15:28:53 onizu: Not in here, this is for common lisp. 15:28:54 stassats`: "ql" not found.. 15:28:56 :\ 15:29:06 onizu: kinda wrong place to ask - this channel is mainly about Common Lisp, and we don't seem to have AutoCAD users here 15:29:06 i can't find a channel for autolisp 15:29:17 osa1: you forgot to load quicklisp 15:29:19 osa1: you do not have quicklisp loaded, then. 15:29:37 osa1: usually you can load it with (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") 15:30:13 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:30:29 onizu: we could help for general lisp programming and algorithms. But indeed, I don't know anything specific to autolisp. 15:30:42 ok 15:31:03 do know what is the use of (princ) ? 15:31:21 ok, I get this error while loading "fset": http://paste.lisp.org/display/126236 15:32:09 haha 15:32:17 ... wasn't that discussed a month or two ago? 15:32:31 Yes, it has been fixed in git, and a fixed fset will be in the next quicklisp. 15:32:33 some really obscure thing that got tripped by change in SBCL? 15:32:51 fine 15:32:55 osa1: You are bitten a bit by using the bleeding-edge sbcl 15:33:08 ok, I think I'll go with lists for now 15:33:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126237 15:33:13 osa1: The next quicklisp update is saturday (hopefully) 15:33:17 cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 15:33:18 that's why you shouldn't depend on fixnum-length 15:34:20 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-krrotirwrtolecun] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:26 Oh, heh. The 63-bit fixnums strike again? 15:34:28 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:34:34 they only struck a little 15:35:11 -!- jdz [~jdz@host229-111-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:35:14 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:35:18 The WP entry on AutoLISP is interesting. Autodesk has neglected enhancement of AutoLISP since 1995 and yet the entry claims that AutoLISP is still the primary user customization language. I suspected that because I frequently see posts on Freelancer sites for AutoLISP coders. 15:35:37 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:47 Common Lisp wasn't enhanced since 1994 15:36:10 well, thx, bye 15:36:21 -!- onizu [onizu@27.106.7.8] has left #lisp 15:36:29 onizu: Sorry onizu, I suggest you get to be friends with the AutoLISP manual. 15:36:30 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-107.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:36:51 wasn't there someone promising to write auotocad in CL? 15:36:59 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 a couple of years ago, should be finished by now 15:37:22 it's the 100-year application 15:37:41 wasn't there a CL CAD app? 15:37:46 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-24-111-188.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:38:17 Management : "Lisp is dead." Lisp : "No I'm not." Management : "Lay down and shut up." 15:38:39 ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has joined #lisp 15:39:42 KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:44 -!- KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:41:17 -!- KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:42:00 -!- chromaticwt [~user@67-41-15-81.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:42:04 can i, at read-time or at macro-expansion-time, figure out what the optimiaztion declarations are? i'd like to spit out different code based on the safety and speed settings. 15:42:20 madnificent: nothing portable, afaik 15:42:43 sb-cltl2:declaration-information 15:42:50 p_l: a CL CAD app could be interesting btw, feel free to shout about it if you find it (i don't intend to use it on the short term though). 15:43:18 there's no portability library for something of the compiler settings either? 15:43:30 https://github.com/LiteTabs/CL-CAD this? 15:43:32 madnificent: dead thing, I think - that is, the product went kaputt some years ago 15:43:46 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 15:43:49 ... or maybe it was DTP? 15:44:04 stassats`: oooh, shiny 15:44:17 uses cl-gtk2 15:44:26 what i dislike about russian and japanese software, is that they write documentation in a language i really don't understand. 15:44:28 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-140-186.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:44:29 nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 15:45:04 i don't write documentation at all 15:45:13 Looks unix specific 15:45:56 madnificent:   . 15:46:20 who needs documentation when you have the code anyway 15:46:21 Looked through the ASDF file and no cl-opengl, I would have expected it to use that. 15:47:22 stassats`: variable and function names in a foreign language do not make for readable code 15:47:31 Odin-: :( 15:47:49 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:01 dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:48:37 madnificent: Although, considering I spent two years learning the language to a level where I'm able to understand the gist of most texts ... I can understand it's not worth it for most people. 8) 15:49:57 can you read Dostoevsky or Tolstoy? 15:50:03 -!- dl` is now known as dl 15:50:12 entrix [~entrix@95-27-30-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 15:50:41 Odin-: i'd rather get to know more features of lisp at the moment, than learning other languages. i find it interesting, but i think there are better things to do at the moment. it seems to me like users of the bigger languages refuse to write documentation in english. i'm not saying that english is the best language, but it seems to be the defacto standard. 15:51:06 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Hooman-s-iPhone.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:52:37 madnificent: Sure, but the problem is less "refuse to" and more "can't"; people whose native languages are that "big" can easily be monoglot (actually or functionally), even as programmers. 15:52:53 stassats`: Haven't tried; expect I'd need a dictionary and a lot of patience. 15:53:00 madnificent: My experience is that code in languages other than english is the exception, though less so with time. When people write code in languages other than english, they are basically just saying they don't care to cater to english speakers, which is a perfectly acceptable decision. 15:53:38 madnificent: Coding markets outside of english speakers have grown large enough to be able to ignore english speakers. 15:53:49 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-321427.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:55:25 *ThomasH* envisions a market for software to translate code from one human language to another. 15:55:28 ThomasH: it feels a tad odd when you publish code online though :) 15:55:29 CL is so cool you can easily translate its standard symbols your favorite language 15:55:53 ThomasH: and 30 years ago, we all thought it'd be here 20 years ago :) 15:55:56 madnificent: Yeah, because only people that speak English use the internet. ;-) 15:56:27 Odin-: sounds like a valid point. my experience does lie within those lines. it seems to be a limitation though, at least so i figured out in France. 15:56:36 madnificent: I'm not talking about natural languages, I'm talking about a simple translation of software code, basically swapping variable names. 15:56:58 stassats`: Over load the name slot of a symbol? 15:57:00 ThomasH: i'm ignorantly going to say yes here, that way i win! ;-) no you're right, it's what Odin- said, i guess. 15:59:01 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:03 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-132.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:30 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:00:31 oudeis [~oudeis@81-179-47-76.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:31 anglophones have it easy, they can live happily monolingual 16:01:12 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-cqamcwrqluuidzyd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:01:30 stassats`: Not for long in the US, we're going to have to learn Spanish. They're already pushing Spanish and English to my K and pre-K children, which I think is a good thing. 16:01:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:02:02 stassats`: And I think the Chinese are going to start demanding a little more respect as well. 16:02:09 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-176-243.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:03:19 chinese is a good example why unicode variable naming is a fucking bad idea 16:03:35 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:03:43 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:18 urandom__: It does complicate things, doesn't it? 16:04:35 urandom__: do you think that a limited charset makes people use English names when they'd prefer another language otherwise? 16:05:27 *akovalenko* had its share of names like InitEkran1Forma_Btn1Svedenija in other people's code 16:06:42 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:06:54 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:54 akovalenko well i can differ beween different ascii chars with relative ease but chinese looks all the same for me, so even if they name their stuff in an other language the code can still be understandable for me 16:07:39 akovalenko: what does that mean ? 16:08:00 seeing lisp code written in chinese is pretty trippy. 16:08:00 Don't underestimate Google Translate, I had to use that on a spreadsheet I received. Tedious, but got me through it. 16:08:20 fe[nl]ix: something like InitScreen1Form_Btn1Data 16:08:27 fe[nl]ix: Ekran => "screen", Svedenija => "information", all other parts are from English 16:08:57 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.158] has joined #lisp 16:09:19 ah 16:09:30 *Neronus* probably never wrote German variable names outside of class 16:09:33 Would feel wrong 16:09:33 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@81-179-47-76.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:10:01 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has joined #lisp 16:10:13 Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-146-216.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:10:28 it looks wrong cause the rest of the programming lang is English, Neronus 16:10:40 well, when you see non-English names for variables & functions, you can be sure that any comprehensive documentation worth reading is in authors' native language (if it exists at all) 16:10:51 Though I could at least give a reason to long variable names without any capitals in them. They are just normal words after all :) 16:11:18 so people should english variable naming and if they refuse at least use ascii chars 16:12:05 ..do Hungarian people really speak like vrbLetsGo m_lpwShopping ? :) 16:12:25 looks more like Klingon 16:12:38 Do camels do CamelCase? 16:12:53 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 16:13:13 It's hard enough sometimes to translate the algorithm in your head to computer code. Having to translate it to a foreign language seems like an unnecessary layer and I can sympathize with people wanting to express the code in their native language. 16:13:50 oudeis [~oudeis@81-179-47-76.dsl.pipex.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:23 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has left #lisp 16:14:43 you don't really need to know english to get used to english variable naming, just takes a bit of time to get used to 16:14:44 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:08 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:15:08 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:15:30 x, y, z, aa, bb, cc and dd <== egalitarian variable names. 16:15:31 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:15:33 Seing that we won't use any of the artifical languages any time soon I would also vote for english as a language that is at least reasonbaly easy to learn 16:15:38 -!- YuleAthas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:58 I guess the vast majority of languages are specified english. Are there any major languages specified in something other than english? 16:16:14 ruby?.. 16:16:25 ruby is in english 16:16:33 also, there /are/ "local" programming languages. 16:16:35 I think that was a joke 16:17:35 you could make an emacs module which provides native->english lookups and automatically lets you pick a translation 16:17:36 it is sad that programming langs didnt get into using Latin or something, that would have had a chance, though it isn't that easy to learn it would be neutral at least 16:18:06 ThomasH: AFAIK the core ruby mailing list is in japanese 16:18:42 fe[nl]ix: Ok, but the language tokens are all english, right? 16:18:45 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.178.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:18:52 the real question is, are there any "minor" langauges we _don't_ know about because they're _not_ english 16:19:30 oGMo: there are, trust me. Another question is whether you lose something by not knowing them :) 16:19:32 I don't think that latin is that easy. Esperanto is seriously easy to learn, though. At least when you come from the western hemisphere, and even for other people it should be easier than anything else 16:20:08 -!- _nix00 [~Adium@58.33.107.84] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20:23 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:33 well esperanto has the highest chances of sucess and ist pretty nice, i agree 16:20:39 Neronus: Ironically, Esperanto has had greatest success in eastern Asia. 16:20:39 ThomasH: the source code and comments are almost all english. there is some japanese documentation, many japanese sites (though usually with english translations) 16:20:43 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.64.180] has joined #lisp 16:20:59 Odin-: I didn't know that. 16:21:14 ThomasH: yes, but if all(or most) of the discussion that leads to the writing of such code is not in English, then I think it counts as a non-English specification 16:21:15 Nice to know. Do you have any sources for that? 16:21:20 Neronus: I suspect its "stepping stone" nature is part of it. 16:21:33 Not that I remember how to find easily, unfortunately. :/ 16:21:56 akovalenko: depends on whether they have any interesting metaphor really. C/C++/java knockoffs are a dime a dozen even in english 16:22:28 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 16:22:43 Neronus I wast saying that Latin is easy to lean but it has a tradition in science so it would have been possible so people wrote programming langs with Latin naming scheme but i gues it is more a Europe thing and most langs got developed in the USA so... 16:22:59 -!- H4ns [~user@e179039112.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:23:05 latin is bleh 16:23:37 oGMo: Ok. fe[nl]ix, Fair enough, I was strictly referring to the "language specification", not the "specification of the language", if that makes sense. 16:23:38 well transition from latin to esperato would be easy ;P 16:23:42 Quick, someone write a version of LOOP that uses latin keywords! 16:23:48 oGMo: most of the words you speak are latin! 16:24:19 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.166.64] has joined #lisp 16:25:02 pjb: derivative yes, and i wouldn't say most .. probably just as many greek-derivative 16:25:27 ..esperanto seems to have a specification, at least, while latin is implementation-defined :) 16:25:28 let's all program in ancient greek 16:25:34 A goodly number of latin words are greek-derivative themselves... 16:25:38 I doubt that for German 16:25:49 abeaumont: :) 16:26:09 still many for German 16:26:17 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has left #lisp 16:27:10 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-397916.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:27:21 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.146.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:28:48 kpreid [~kpreid@Riley14.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 16:28:55 ThomasH: google translate wouldn't work on program identifiers, because it's contextual. 16:29:31 some time ago i read some comment about the reason why esperanto is successful in asia is that it has language contructs that are similar to some asian languages like chinese 16:29:53 oGMo: there are a few non-English programming languages. Eg. LSE (French): http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSE_%28langage_de_programmation%29 16:30:05 when it comes down to it, what you're programming already has defined its own subset of terms, be they english or otherwise, so it's not really general english anyway 16:30:37 pjb: I had pretty good luck with it even though I was just copying and pasting (standard Mandarin, I think) single words or equivalent. 16:31:03 although one could equally argue that it is because esperanto is simply much easier to learn 16:31:11 Well, if you do it word by word, ok. But if you'd feed it the whole program, you could get different translations for the same identifier, depending on the context. 16:31:40 One good point of Esperanto, is that once you've learned it, it's much easier to learn most other European languages. 16:32:03 (and even some stranger languages). 16:32:09 pjb: yeah doesn't look particularly interesting as a language ;/ 16:32:20 Oh, it is very interesting! 16:32:21 pjb: Definitely. I wasn't suggesting dropping in an entire function and it's surely not an approach for a large code base. Although, maybe the could be a way to hook into translate, does it have an API? 16:32:34 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:32:45 *Neronus* is very fond of the word "lernu" for some reason 16:33:11 i mean LSE, not esperanto 16:33:12 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:33:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:33:54 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:43 -!- ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn_] 16:34:58 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:35:21 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-031.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:35:56 Not surprising, Google Translate API is a paid service. 16:37:08 I rather like lojban. It has a very lisp-like structure to it 16:38:00 (let ((x (ash nazg durbatuluk))) ...) 16:38:49 milanj [~milanj_@91-150-120-190.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:38:50 (and we already have ash. orcs would find lisp easy) 16:39:15 -!- quek [~ancient@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Riley14.price.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 16:39:44 pjb: well, once you learned a second language, a third one is easier. the good think about esperanto is that it is easy by itself so it makes for a good choice as a second language 16:39:47 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 16:39:56 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:40:44 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.50.48] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:02 oGMo: Well, LSE was designed with about the same goals as BASIC. But it has true functions and procedures, with parameters passed by value or by reference. 16:41:38 It ran in 4 Kw of memory... 16:41:59 *eMBee* just realizes that one thing that esperanto and lisp have in common, that for both the syntax is very easy and can be explained in a single page 16:42:16 Yep. Esperanto: 22 grammar rules, no exception. 16:42:40 English: zillion grammar rules, bazillion exceptions. 16:42:43 *eMBee* nods 16:43:25 lisp has what, half a dozend grammar rules? more? 16:43:52 The reader algorithm is 9 step on one page. 16:43:53 pjb: ah 16:44:15 and local variables. 16:47:49 is there an ASN1 decoder? 16:47:59 ISTR yes 16:48:14 http://www.cliki.net/ASN.1 16:48:15 Yes, a supporting part of cl-smtp. 16:48:16 Levente: (ql:quickload "asn.1") ;;; never tried to use it 16:51:10 Odin-, it seems like I can check RSA with SHA1 signature 16:51:58 after debugging how Java does, the missing parts are: 16:52:31 1. extracting the public key modulus and exponent from the base64 encoded key 16:53:05 2. a very simple function to remove padding 16:53:26 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:44 3. reading from a DER encoded structure 16:54:04 the rest is there in ironclad 16:55:43 I'm not sure but 2 and 3 seems to be safely ignorable by a SEARCH call instead of using EQUALP after those steps 16:56:10 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A406B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:07 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:52 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:01:31 vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:47 jjc [~jjc@50-46-182-239.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:21 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-140-186.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 17:03:23 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:58 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:24 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:06:33 -!- axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 17:06:58 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:08 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 17:08:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:08:50 drdo [~user@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:15:27 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:15:54 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-191-18.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:16:27 Okay, the pretty-printer yet again totally befuddles me. 17:16:41 -!- ignas [~ignas@office.pov.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:16:44 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 17:17:09 Suppose I want to print a hashtable in JSON notation and I want to print a "{" then a newline, have the body indented, and then the closing "}" in the same column as the opening brace, how? 17:17:23 I tried with pprint-logical-block but it always indents the closing brace. 17:18:03 Print the closing brace outside of the logical block? 17:18:09 Use two blocks if necessary? 17:19:13 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-148-225.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:19:35 pnq [~nick@AC819B1D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:51 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:52 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@81-179-47-76.dsl.pipex.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:23:25 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-115-15-74.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 17:23:47 nyef: I guess that makes sense. 17:24:01 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:48 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-128-240.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:15 gigamonkey: a tiny html conversion bug report: search for "com-paring" at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/syntax-and-semantics.html 17:27:26 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-22.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:27:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has joined #lisp 17:28:07 the mention of the Dixie Chicks could also be considered a bug. 17:30:12 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-99-49-14-228.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 17:33:56 nyef: still no dice. I surely don't understand the pretty printer. 17:35:01 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-115-15-74.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:04 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:18 Yeah, I don't really understand the pprinter either. 17:45:07 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-156-118.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:06 -!- Levente [~Levente@catv-89-135-146-216.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:47:52 *Xach* used the pretty printer to produce nicely-indented perl hash initialization code 17:48:00 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.64] has joined #lisp 17:48:09 Xach: code available? I'd like to take a look. 17:48:22 Noctifer [~Noctifer@89.204.153.242] has joined #lisp 17:48:34 *Xach* digs 17:48:40 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.166.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:48 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.64] has quit [Client Quit] 17:51:19 lakkris [~unf@pool-71-164-238-90.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:22 Why a warning about number of args? http://paste.lisp.org/+2PEO 17:52:03 Liam, because you're only passing one list to mapcar but the function takes two args. 17:52:12 gigamonkey: http://paste.lisp.org/display/126241 has it 17:52:37 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:53:01 it doesn't make much sense to me at the moment. it's 4 or so years old. 17:53:02 gigamonkey: OK, thanks, 17:53:57 LiamH: Would REDUCE apply? 17:54:47 ThomasH: No, not for the current problem, because the output of the op will be T or NIL, and the inputs are numbers. 17:56:02 hello 17:56:04 LiamH: well, you can play tricks, with return, or with a function boolean x number -> boolean. 17:56:05 LiamH: Yeah, right. 17:56:07 LiamH: Does args look like '((1 2) (3 4) (5 6))? And you want to call (op 1 2) and (op 3 4) ... ? 17:56:35 vrook: no, that example was a cartoon of the actual function 17:56:46 how can i print the result of function accpeting parameters? 17:56:59 l_r: using print. 17:57:05 yes,but how 17:57:08 LiamH: I have a suspicion I've done this before, but can't remember where. 17:57:09 (print (fun-accepting-parameters p1 p2 p3)) 17:57:11 LiamH: but you're passing only one list to mapcar, so the passed function should be arity 1 17:57:14 hmm 17:57:31 vrook: No, (loop for (arg1 arg2) on args) 17:57:34 etc 17:58:09 You mean (loop for (arg1 arg2) on args by #'cddr) ? 17:59:03 vrook: no, because you want to compare 1 to 2, 2 to 3 etc. 17:59:08 vrook: Maybe, depends on whether you want (op 1 2) (op 2 3), ... or (op 1 2) (op 3 4) 17:59:09 or I want to anyway 17:59:42 so (mapcar op args (rest args)) ? 18:00:18 *Xach* smells an echo of a lisptip 18:01:28 (loop for (arg0 arg1) on args always (or (not arg1) (funcall op arg0 arg1))) 18:02:01 LiamH: I think that's equivalent to (mapcar op args (rest args)) 18:02:45 mapc, technically 18:03:06 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:03:17 I think there will be a failure at the end with yours, need to nil check. 18:04:00 LiamH: I don't think so. That makes (- (length args) 1) comparisons. 18:04:15 Oh, OK 18:05:35 LiamH: Are more details available? 18:05:51 Xach: more details on what? 18:05:58 LiamH: I think Xach is referring to a tip on EVERY, that is what I'm thinking of as well. 18:06:15 (every op args) 18:07:18 Doesn't quite work, although I use every frequently, totally failing here. 18:07:21 I don't know what you're getting at. 18:11:33 LiamH: I'm just confused. Need to grab some lunch. 18:12:34 LiamH: your loop form looks a lot like (every op args (rest args)) to me, but i can't quite tell from your problem description. 18:13:43 Xach: you're right, that works 18:13:43 LiamH: http://paste.lisp.org/+2PEO/1 18:14:08 Right, I didn't notice the funcall is part of the 'or'. So 'every' is right. 18:14:18 LiamH: Xach's solution was the one I was looking for, I pasted something kludgy. 18:14:19 (in the loop above) 18:15:48 http://paste.lisp.org/+2PEO/2 18:16:30 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has joined #lisp 18:16:45 LiamH: Yes, that looks very nice. 18:17:10 So my Lisp tip of the day: Xach knows the answer. 18:17:19 Indeed 18:17:30 ... and can figure out the question as well. 18:17:51 LiamH: http://lisptips.com/post/11391361367/comparing-many-objects 18:18:52 ... and has the answer 6 weeks ahead of you 18:19:22 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.204.215] has quit [Client Quit] 18:19:29 Xach: We need more tips, your fans are waiting. ;-) 18:20:52 *Xach* has been right out straight 18:21:14 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:22:18 mindCrime [~chatzilla@24.106.207.82] has joined #lisp 18:22:48 Xach: mt19937 doesn't seem to yield the same random numbers whan the same random state was chosen. aside from that it looks quite good. 18:24:30 madnificent: are you sure? SBCL uses mt19937, and its handling of *random-state* _is_ conforming 18:24:56 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 18:25:45 btw, you know that old joke about lispers and their need to balance parens? 18:25:57 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-22.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:26:24 well, today, during a local programming conference, I kinda proved it xD 18:27:18 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27:28 did you balance them on a rake? 18:27:43 I've mostly noticed that the ones that use erc want " balanced 18:28:27 no, blackboard. Tom Preston-Werner (GitHub's CTO) starts his keynote, drawing an Octocat with an integral in a speech bubble... and I come over and say "shouldn't you close the paren?" 18:28:34 http://instagr.am/p/W87zv/ <--- that octocat 18:29:32 akovalenko: looks like it here. i'll try again later :) 18:30:16 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 18:30:58 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-22.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:31:59 consider this code http://paste.lisp.org/display/126244 18:33:08 done 18:33:09 edge-index might be more than 30, then edge-table might be accessed out of his ranges, since it only has 30 elements 18:33:12 right? 18:33:30 i think i am not right. i miss something 18:34:48 edge-table has 59049 elements 18:35:24 what is expt 18:35:34 3^10 ? 18:35:38 yes 18:35:52 ok 18:35:53 thx 18:36:47 stassats`, edge-stability actually returns a scalar-type value, right? 18:37:16 it returns a number 18:37:26 the sum of the values of each element in the table index by edge-index in the loop 18:37:29 ok 18:42:19 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 18:43:02 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:45:50 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-27-30-157.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:46:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819B1D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:53:08 -!- danishman [~kvirc@93.160.236.42] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 18:53:58 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 18:54:12 tjasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:00 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-132.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:58:05 entrix [~entrix@95-25-63-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:00:31 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-132.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:36 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.64.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:01:46 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.87.217] has joined #lisp 19:05:05 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:06 Has anyone but me been having trouble with SLIME from CVS today on SBCL? I'm getting a package lock error... 19:12:56 stassats`, but edge_index might be more than 3^10 too 19:14:31 5^9 <= 3 ^ 10 ? 19:14:47 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:15:29 quarkup [~quarkup@a79-168-115-116.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:15:40 hey i need help on how to run carmap on sbcl 19:15:54 quarkup: What is carmap? 19:16:08 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:09 carmap: function x list -> list 19:16:14 rpg: o god! what is it? 19:16:17 aplies function to each element of list 19:16:25 *applies 19:16:29 quarkup: the function with which i'm familiar is mapcar 19:16:33 hmm 19:16:35 lol 19:16:38 m'kay 19:17:11 Xach: I get a package lock failure in swank-sbcl.lisp: on POLLFD 19:17:24 oh lol ! 19:18:48 never mind..max value is 58048 19:18:56 ybit [~ybit@unaffiliated/ybit] has joined #lisp 19:19:04 quick question, just curious about this before i sleep.. 19:19:13 (define x (+ a a)) 19:19:26 that's invalid, i know 19:19:38 how could make something like this? 19:19:43 i think the intention is clear 19:19:48 (defun x (a) (+ a a)) 19:19:59 (defparameter *x* (+ *a* *a*)) 19:20:02 excellent dlowe, thanks 19:20:20 i'm listening to the famous mit course while driving 19:20:34 reading through lyah and the python reference docs when i'm in front of a computer :P 19:20:38 akovalenko: yours is certainly a more accurate from scheme 19:20:40 er, learn you a haskell 19:20:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@u-0-031.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:20:50 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-22.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:46 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-107.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:22:02 hmm 19:22:08 guess i should ask in scheme 19:23:21 Xach: I am not sure why this didn't blow up for the original committer. 19:23:37 different sbcl version? 19:24:40 (quit) 19:24:46 !lol 19:24:49 \quit 19:24:51 -!- quarkup [~quarkup@a79-168-115-116.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 19:24:53 tcr: I think I pulled SBCL from git a few days ago. 19:24:54 *Xach* is very paranoid about including a bogus slime 19:25:04 This is the form that causes the P-L violation: (sb-alien:struct sb-unix::pollfd) 19:25:31 rpg: My point is that the commiter was probably running an sbcl without that problem. Seems like sb-unix::pollfd is gone. 19:25:50 the symbol is tried to be interned which blows up due to packet lock on sb-unix 19:25:57 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:34 tcr: I still see it in src/code/unix.lisp. With grep Will check to see if commented out... 19:27:19 I bet this works only on linux, and blows up for me because I'm on Mac OS X. 19:28:07 I'll take that bet. 19:28:10 #!+os-provides-poll 19:28:14 right (unix.lisp is for unix only (and osx is not "unix enough" (and pollfd definition also depends on #+os-provides-poll))) 19:28:25 *Xach* might already be a loser 19:28:40 In swank-sbcl, there's only #-win32... 19:29:11 I fear heller's last couple of days of work may need refactoring... 19:30:00 heh, the definition of sb-unix::pollfd is hardcoded, not grovelled. I'd just copy it instead of depending on it. 19:30:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-88-186.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:45 *Xach* will keep slime back a month 19:31:24 akovalenko: you mean copy it into swank-sbcl? 19:31:46 yes (if it's actually used there, of course) 19:32:53 is first a keyword? 19:33:07 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e941.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:27 l_r: no. 19:33:34 l_r: but what do you mean by "keyword"? 19:33:48 (defconstant top-edge (first edge-and-x-lists)) 19:34:05 :first is a keyword, but not that kind of keyword. FIRST is just a function name. 19:34:07 Xach: I think quicklisp bundles its own asdf. If I'm right about that, I don't know if https://bugs.launchpad.net/asdf/+bug/897977 is something that you would worry about. 19:34:21 rwiker [~rwiker@184.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:21 edge-and-x-lists is defined as {{1,2,3,} {1,2,3...}} 19:34:43 so what does the above mean 19:34:46 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.14.40] has joined #lisp 19:34:48 rme: it does worry me. 19:35:03 l_r: it doesn't look much like lisp to me. 19:35:04 akovalenko: I guess I worry that the code which uses the pollfd will not work on Mac OS X. Incined to simply revert my SLIME (if I can remember enough CVS to do that!) 19:35:35 rpg: do you use threaded SBCL build? 19:35:41 yes 19:36:12 Xach, http://paste.lisp.org/display/126245 19:36:20 then it's unlikely to actually /use/ pollfd.. 19:36:43 no, sorry, I should look at that code first.. 19:37:33 akovalenko: on mt19937: if i set the random state to a certain number and i ask a random value. then i reset the state to the same number, shouldn't a get the same random number? 19:38:23 -!- chp [~user@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:38:59 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:39:03 madnificent: try (let ((*random-state* (make-random-state *random-state*))) (random 1000)) ;; twice or more. should be the same 19:39:06 akovalenko: o wait, init-random-state receives a seed... 19:39:22 Xach, any idea? 19:39:23 akovalenko: but i can't serialize a specific random state, can i? 19:39:30 READ, PRINT 19:39:45 l_r: I am still wondering what you mean by "keyword". 19:39:59 Xach, what is first in that example? 19:40:02 map-edge-n-pieces, where is that defined? 19:40:05 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2AB4.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:40:07 l_r: "first" is a function that returns the first thing in the list you give it. So (defconstant top-edge (first edge-and-x-lists)) defines "top-edge" to be a constant set to the first thing in edge-and-x-lists. 19:40:32 l_r: Sorry, not interested in helping. 19:40:44 l_r: for instance (first '(contains some content)) => 'contains 19:40:46 ... which, unless you understand defconstant very well, will probably not work 19:41:19 since edge_and_x_lists is a bidimensional array, first is a row..right? 19:41:27 l_r: and please, please, just learn lisp. these questions are annoying (as you're not even trying to look things up in either the clhs or the pcl or googling for it or whatnot) 19:42:00 i have been trying to learning it since yessterday 19:42:02 google is a bad way to learn Lisp 19:42:15 it's really cryptic 19:42:18 stassats`: *anything* is better than asking what the function #'first means! 19:42:40 l_r: it is *not* cryptic, you just refuse to learn. now please, go away, take a book, and read 19:42:51 that's easy, it means "second to none" 19:43:02 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:43:07 hi 19:43:11 stassats`: touche 19:43:19 Xach: If it helps, backing up 2 days gets me back to a SLIME that will compile on Mac on SBCL 1.0.53.xxx 19:43:30 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 19:43:48 l_r: everything is cryptic if you only started learning it a day ago 19:44:21 akovalenko: thanks! 19:44:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:29 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-22.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:44:35 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:44:43 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 19:45:30 l_r: How much programming experience do you have (with other lanugages)? 19:45:34 a good, graphical, stepper might've helped l_r, maybe 19:45:44 jacius, 15 years 19:46:18 allegro's graphical stepper is pretty excellent (: 19:46:32 if you've used other languages for 15 years, you should know better than to expect to learn a new language in 1 day 19:46:46 the lispworks stepper is good, too 19:47:00 Hrm... Does SLIME have a decent stepper when used with SBCL? 19:47:03 sbcl! wait 19:47:28 nyef: it crashes on me at the moment, but i haven't searched if it's really an sbcl issue or a slime issue. 19:47:32 my aim is not to learn, i need to understand enough lisp to port a very damn small piece of code from lisp to c. i need only this, i don't think i will ever read lisp anymore 19:48:00 :( 19:48:03 'my aim is not to learn', seriously, that says quite a lot 19:48:06 The icons on the buttons for the lispworks stepper are confusing as hell, I can never remember what they're supposed to do. 19:48:06 i was searching for translators from lisp to c source code, without any luck 19:48:11 :D 19:48:29 Otherwise, it is a good stepper. I really like the inspector in lispworks. 19:48:36 ThomasH: icons? what kind of beast is that? 19:48:47 -!- entrix [~entrix@95-25-63-2.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:49:05 l_r: Well, in the future if you need to find out what a lisp function (or macro, or whatever) does, you can search here: http://lispdoc.com/ 19:49:08 madnificent: it's something to do with religion 19:49:09 I agree on the icons :-) 19:49:11 l_r: Don't bother, then. Since the piece of code is "very small", you should be able to rewrite it in C fairly easily just from your requirements and your understanding of what it's supposed to do (rather than from figuring out how it works). 19:49:34 madnificent: Maybe I used the wrong terminology, but I know what I meant. :-) 19:49:44 ThomasH: you were right, i was joking :) 19:49:56 nyef, exactly 19:49:58 df: :D 19:50:22 l_r: mind you, that's not what you're doing 19:50:25 l_r: you see, we think our time is valuable too. I'm sure if you wanted to hire someone to help you, you'd be able to find people pretty quickly. 19:50:51 dlowe, i know, i don't pretend any answers 19:51:27 l_r: yes, but you're wanting us to do something for you for free, and it doesn't work that way 19:52:08 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 19:52:10 Unless it is very interesting, then we'll help for the fun. Uninteresting, not so much. 19:52:38 i think i've fixed that poll problem in slime 19:53:22 *Xach* trembles in fear of big slime changes 19:53:31 we also help when people are genuinely trying to learn something 19:53:45 stassats`: what's the usual common-lisp.net's delay for readonly CVS access? 19:54:13 15 minutes 19:54:21 thanks 19:54:43 is it something like #-(or win32 osx), or something better? 19:54:43 Xach: there was no cool changes recently, so you'll be better off waiting 19:54:47 -!- spacefrogg_ [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg_] 19:54:53 akovalenko: #+os-provides-poll 19:55:00 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 19:55:10 that's fine 19:55:34 it may be not present on linux as well 19:55:42 if you don't have poll.h, for example 19:56:15 ot, but osx doesn't provide poll? 19:56:42 I would worry about the reverse (when poll is emulated but not really provided, and :os-provides-poll is present for build's sake) 19:56:43 the comment from os-provides-poll-test.c "which is hopefully a sufficient sample to weed out crappy versions like that on Darwin. " 19:57:33 akovalenko: it shouldn't be present if it doesn't appear to work, as of now at least 19:57:54 ..that is, there's no such thing for os-provides-poll currently in SBCL, but e.g. win32 "provides dlopen", and it doesn't mean that an alien funcall to dlopen() will work 19:58:39 poll test is actually running poll 19:59:01 stassats`: there's also a dlopen test, iirc, but it's overridden on win32 20:00:04 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.24/20111103063747]] 20:00:14 stassats`: I think you're perfectly safe with poll (until some major changes in sbcl), but generally you should be careful with that :os-provides stuff 20:00:48 cpc261 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has joined #lisp 20:00:56 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:14 entrix [~entrix@95-28-232-220.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:02:51 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 20:03:21 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@fsf/member/cpc26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:55 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:06:19 ehu: did you ever get around to merging the patches I sent? 20:06:42 dlowe: not yet, I'll get to it this weekend, I recon. 20:07:13 ehu: thanks :) 20:11:15 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@184.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 20:12:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:15:11 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:15:51 stassats`: what?? sb-win32 stuff just on #-os-provides-dlopen? 20:16:01 * #-os-provides-poll 20:16:50 stassats`: it will surely break osx even worse (no way to go by ignoring package locks) 20:16:54 didn't notice that 20:19:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 20:19:52 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:56 hi, have we got sexp-delta-encoding and decoding? 20:21:19 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:21:23 I think there's something called sexp-diff 20:21:23 something like diff/patch not for text, but for whole trees (sexps) 20:22:16 unfortunately, diff/patch for trees is not too useful as diff/patch for lisp sources (it may have other good uses). 20:22:17 yah, in scheme, I would have to translate: http://wiki.call-cc.org/eggref/4/sexp-diff 20:22:54 ok, thx 20:24:00 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 20:24:13 akovalenko: should be really fixed this time 20:26:14 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA010C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 20:28:13 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 20:32:56 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:34:14 -!- vrook [~girondist@c-24-91-141-42.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:49 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:28 Slime fix reached public CVS and looks correct. 20:36:57 Any macosx people here to give it a try? 20:39:23 akovalenko: sure, if you can tell me a quick way to override quicklisps 20:39:30 quicklisp's version of slime 20:39:36 just stick it in local-projects? 20:39:43 That won't quite work. 20:39:44 felideon: yes, that should be enough 20:39:48 *er 20:39:56 That will help with the swank side but not the slime/emacs side. 20:40:01 emacs should be told of its location 20:40:07 Right. 20:40:10 oh ok 20:40:17 i can do that 20:41:08 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:41:32 if you mix composing with complecting, do you get composting? 20:41:34 no visible problems on #+(and win32 x86-64) [linux+wine] 20:42:13 comportmanteausite words can be awful 20:43:28 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:43:33 Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:49 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.50.248] has joined #lisp 20:45:20 benny [~benny@i577A31B2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:45:27 Hi all! 20:47:30 -!- Cryotank2011 [~Cryotank2@c-24-17-62-152.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:48 Greetings Bahman 20:48:48 this quicklisp thing sure makes things complicated 20:48:50 :) 20:49:40 sorry 20:51:44 stassats`: btw, I noticed an overlay for old inputs in slime-repl, with a read-only attribute. Is it expected to make text read-only? (it doesn't work for overlays, at least on GNU Emacs) 20:52:19 i don't know what's the intention 20:52:32 but i like it to be writeable 20:53:31 *akovalenko* too 20:54:13 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:55:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:55:01 if (read-only . t) has no real purpose there, eventually removing it would calm down curious people like me :) 20:56:20 akovalenko: so is there a specific test to run? 20:56:46 felideon: if it compiles and loads, that's already a good sign (for recent fix) 20:57:45 stassats`: am I right that wait-for-input is constantly called in swank's main loop? If not, is there a way to trigger it? 20:58:14 I had to comment out my (add-hook 'slime-connected-hook 'slime-redirect-inferior-output) line... but I assume that variable gets loaded with slime-helper.el somehow that my bare slime-setup doesn't 20:58:52 let me see 20:59:13 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 20:59:18 s/variable/function 20:59:19 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.93.1] has joined #lisp 21:00:00 also I am on Snow Leopard, not Lion. fwiw 21:01:03 felideon: please C-h f slime-redirect-inferior-output. Are you able to open its definition? Is it in the right tree? 21:01:34 felideon: and what happened when add-hook was there? 21:02:01 akovalenko: hmm, yes C-h f show it, and the source is the right slime version. 21:02:04 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:13 let me try again with the hook 21:02:54 akovalenko: yes, you're right 21:02:55 akovalenko: ah nevermind, it works now. 21:03:11 akovalenko: I hadnt done a slime-fancy the first time 21:03:24 would that do the trick? 21:03:30 ..anyway, it doesn't look like a regression (slime-redirect-inferior-output is from ~2008, completely) 21:04:35 felideon: yes, that was probably slime-fancy (actually slime-repl) not being loaded 21:04:41 right 21:05:23 so... works for me! 21:07:51 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 21:11:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:12:05 YuleAthas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:12:28 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@ceesit01.nees.rpi.edu] has 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snearch [~snearch@e178120212.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:30:36 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 21:31:11 Kvaks [~kvaks@11.165.189.109.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:31:56 sbcl/linux/amd64/slime: looks good (even in my fancier-than-fancy configuration) 21:32:03 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-13-198.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:12 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-92.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:32:31 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:27 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 21:34:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:34:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-54.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:35:30 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-72.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:44 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75e941.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:38:15 chp [~user@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:55 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:39:25 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-148-225.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:07 nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-191-18.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 21:40:18 *akovalenko* is tempted to (let ((lisp-mode-map (make-sparse-keymap))) (load-library "inf-lisp")) in his emacs init file 21:40:38 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:42:11 "we no longer load inf-lisp", but sometimes it gets loaded nevertheless, and adds its (wrong) bindings for lisp mode... 21:44:57 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:49:43 hakzsam_ [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:43 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:07 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:36 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:55:42 realitygrill [~realitygr@64.134.163.27] has joined #lisp 21:56:00 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:59:07 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:14 Is there any way to get a unit smaller than a second from the (get-universal-time)? 21:59:34 nanosec ? 22:00:26 pthreads -> ##posix! 22:00:51 or -> #kernel 22:01:27 can you give an example for me to type into the REPL? 22:01:57 no, such stuff is mostly implementation dependent i think.... 22:02:05 Pomo: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/browse_frm/thread/8626b02703ebab53/cc8e1e9e3a75194?hl=en&q=get-universal-time+group:comp.lang.lisp+author:pascal+author:bourguignon#0cc8e1e9e3a75194 22:03:01 Pomo: Do you need absolute time, or is relative time acceptable? 22:03:34 rme: relative time is fine 22:03:47 Then perhaps get-internal-real-time would be useful for you. 22:04:39 Okay, I had no idea get-internal-real-time existed, thank you! 22:05:25 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:48 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 22:08:52 i have an headache 22:09:07 now i am stuck to the best of lisp 22:09:36 l_r: have you installed lisp to try the functions at the repl? 22:09:57 yes 22:10:11 what stuff is this http://paste.lisp.org/display/126248 ? 22:10:13 l_r: Jim Carrey has the solution: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hBwt4X1Xcw4 22:10:26 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:10:38 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:10:55 l_r: An abuse of the REPL history symbols? 22:10:57 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:11:35 Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:11:35 ThomasH, i don't really know. i will pay millions for a lisp to c converter 22:11:41 ,8 22:12:04 l_r: try outputting a string with information in your loop. that may help you explain things. use (format T "~~&A ~A ~A ~A~&" one a per argument) with the symbols '(one a per argument) bound to variables. I admit, it's a bit cryptic. ~A makes place for an argument, ~& ensures you're on a new line. 22:12:44 l_r: Then you're in the right place. You should not use asterisks like that, especially in a quoted, literal, array. 22:13:15 l_r: don't create new pastes, annotate your old ones 22:13:15 ThomasH: what do they mean in that context? 22:13:19 omg this is really bad comedy 22:13:27 l_r: http://www.informatik.uni-kiel.de/~wg/clicc.html 22:13:35 madnificent: I'm not sure. 22:13:38 kilon: this, being 22:13:44 l_r: you can send the millions to my paypal account pjb@informatimago.com 22:14:16 madnificent: the youtube video pjb posted 22:14:20 ThomasH: i /think/ it should mean '* but i'm not sure 22:14:43 It's ok to have symbols such as * in lisp data. 22:15:37 pjb: But is it useful? 22:15:38 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:15:40 kilon: yes, young humourists often try strange things. 22:15:55 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:16:00 and i really like Karey, well most of the time 22:16:01 ThomasH: why not? You can have things such as +infinity -infinity, top, bottom, and *. 22:16:39 by the way I am reading land of lisp, and do i dare say, i start liking parantheses 22:16:47 :D 22:16:53 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:16:59 very good book too 22:17:27 pjb, kilon: it was funny :) 22:17:29 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:18:29 pjb: Sure, but I think using * would be very error prone. 22:18:52 ThomasH: clearly, this is not a matrix, but a sequence of structures... 22:19:14 ThomasH: it's more error prone to use a 2D array for a sequence of structures than to use * for the value of a structure slot... 22:20:15 It doesn't make too much sense to call * a "repl history symbol" in a non-evaluating context. 22:20:25 Joreji [~thomas@u-0-033.vpn.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 22:21:24 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-22.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:21:46 call it "multiply function"! 22:21:50 akovalenko: agreed, but the paste was created immediately after questioning l_r about installing a lisp and call functions from the REPL. 22:22:33 akovalenko: I wasn't sure it wasn't going to evaluate. 22:22:37 Somewhere. 22:22:44 akovalenko: it's true, but using it does shout at me "are you sure they didn't mean the history symbol and just messed up?" 22:24:46 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@64.134.163.27] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 22:24:48 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.72.175.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:25:19 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:25:28 l_r: What are you trying to accomplish with the * symbols? Maybe NIL would make things clearer? 22:25:57 kpreid [~kpreid@Riley14.price.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 22:27:01 #2A(...) is already a self evaluating object, there's no need to quote it. 22:27:51 ThomasH, i am trying to port few lines from lisp to c, the code apparently comes from a guru of lisp. despite i have the knowlodge of the problem from a functional point of view, i can't really say anything about that syntax. i have been reading books since two days ago and every time i meet a new difficulty 22:28:31 oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.110.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:28:54 come back when you've been reading books for two years 22:28:55 l_r: what's your difficulty now? 22:29:10 pjb, the syntax in that table 22:29:17 in that table definition 22:29:29 l_r: what syntax? 22:29:31 what is a c-equivalent code? 22:29:39 It's a 2D array. There's no equivalent in C. 22:29:46 or pseudo code or anything that an human can understand 22:29:52 l_r: Oh, you're going the wrong way. 22:30:08 indeed 22:30:20 i'm a human and i can understand this code 22:30:21 It's a 2D array that contains either integers or symbols, there's no equivalent in C of a l-value that can be various different data types. 22:30:30 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:30:31 There's no equivalent in C of symbols. 22:30:48 l_r: you will have to implement a half-arsed lisp implementation in C before you can port that code. 22:30:54 yes, for this reason i said c code ,not c structures.. 22:31:04 l_r: my advice is to use ecl, and just run the lisp code with libecl.so. 22:31:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:02 libecl.so implements the Interpreter Pattern. Just say that and everybody will be happy. 22:32:15 l_r: stop thinking like C, you're in #lisp, we have something called features. it would be a one-dimensional array in C, and you'd manually take care about the right indexes. 22:33:03 pjb: not exactly equivelant, but they get by with magic numbers :) (regarding the symbols) 22:33:29 l_r: Or if you insist, start by typedef struct { ... } symbol; typedef struct { typecode type; union { symbol s; int i; ... } data } object; ... 22:33:54 madnificent: how can you distinguish between a regular number and a magic number? 22:34:26 crassus [~crassus@unaffiliated/crassus] has joined #lisp 22:34:40 If you use IEEE floating point numbers, you can use NANs has magic numbers. 22:34:57 s/ h// 22:35:14 or, you know, just use a sane language 22:35:54 stassats`: you don't... really. it must be in a 'sane' position. yes, it's a load of bullcrap, but i haven't invented the language, don't blame me :-) 22:36:06 -!- crassus [~crassus@unaffiliated/crassus] has left #lisp 22:36:06 l_r: I think you should give up on translating the lisp code and just find a good reference for the algorithm. 22:37:23 probably tomorrow i will give up 22:38:01 l_r: consider just using libecl, to translate the code. You don't need to convert it to C manually. 22:38:29 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@92.40.253.110.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 22:38:40 l_r: One clarification, do have any desire to learn lisp or were you trying to learn it for the translation? 22:39:11 ThomasH, i am trying to learn enough lisp to port the code 22:39:38 l_r: Yeah, what pjb said, use libecl and move on. 22:39:39 why do you need to port it? 22:39:41 i cannot say i have not learnt anything 22:40:12 i see support for lambda functions collections etc.. good stuff.. but it's something i wll not need to use anymore 22:41:17 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:42:33 l_r: it's all turing complete. given some extra time, you could write the things you write in lisp, in c as well. 22:44:59 -!- l_r [~lr@adsl-ull-153-2.42-151.net24.it] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 22:45:25 l_r [~lr@adsl-ull-153-2.42-151.net24.it] has joined #lisp 22:46:53 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 22:47:09 iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:09 i will state for the record that whoever may have written the bit l_r pasted may be perfectly competent lisp hacker, but definitely not a guru. (1) pointless quote (2) hanging parens. 22:48:41 nikodemus: annotate it with a comment! 22:49:01 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:03 what it is the best explanation for those * in the table 22:49:12 where is a book explaining them 22:49:18 online if possible 22:49:28 l_r: It's impossible to say what those * are used for, without seeing the rest of the code 22:49:34 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:49:42 most probably it's used for "not a number" 22:49:56 i meant to say what do they represent, what does the syntax say about those * 22:50:10 it's just a symbol 22:50:15 l_r: This is what asterisk should be used for -> http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/a_st.htm , anything else just causes confusion. 22:50:51 They make a symbol '*, which the other code must be using in some special way. Maybe it loops through the array and does something special when it sees a *? 22:51:00 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 22:51:28 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:52:56 l_r: assume it's a table in C code, and you know there is never going to be a valid numeric entry with value 0xffffffff, so you do #define MAGIC_MARK 0xffffffff, and use MAGIC_MARK to mark... whatever * stands there for 22:52:58 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:52:58 poor pjb 22:53:32 he failed even to declare a right package system ala asdf! 22:53:35 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:53:41 bleh 22:53:50 l_r: is there any reason for that array not to contain a number? perhaps for an infinite cost, perhaps for an unknown value, or for something forbidden? the semantic meaning of * in that context isn't predefined, the programmer of that fragment has defined it. you could compare it to placing the string "*" in there, instead of a number, what would you expect that to mean? 22:53:54 l_r: it is not syntactically significant there. it means only whatever meaning the program that uses that table gives to encountering that value in the table 22:55:01 let me see where is the code trying to distinguish a * from a non-* 22:55:03 l_r: if it comes from a book, the meaning is probably explained somewhere 22:55:31 l_r: could you rephrase that? 22:56:24 if '*' has a meaning for the application, it then must detect '*' somewhere in the code using the table 22:57:23 right 22:57:52 it may be doing (eq '* ) or (integerp ) or (numberp ) or (symbolp ) 22:59:09 hmm 22:59:42 i don't see any difference about how '*' is considered in all the code referencing the table 22:59:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126250 23:00:15 l_r: Annotate please 23:00:18 maybe those elements in the array are never indexed 23:00:21 l_r: what's empty? 23:00:57 that code sucks, why did you choose to read bad code when you're not yet proficient with Lisp? 23:00:58 (defconstant empty 0 "An empty square") 23:00:58 (defconstant black 1 "A black piece") 23:00:59 (defconstant white 2 "A white piece") 23:01:04 looking at that code, it does a subtraction, which would fail, so I'd lean toward the 'never indexed' theory 23:01:25 kpreid: It's actually just reversing sign. 23:01:35 oh, well, still fails :) 23:01:50 Yeah 23:02:53 rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has joined #lisp 23:03:38 My guess that (eql (bref board sq) empty) covers the array entries with '* 23:03:59 stassats`: My understanding is that l_r has been assigned the task (by his boss?) to port a "lisp guru's" code to C. 23:04:24 jasom [~aidenn@ip72-194-213-200.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:56 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:28 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:21 kpreid, what do you mean "fails" 23:08:45 l_r: If you try to negate a symbol, it will signal an error. 23:09:02 l_r: I mean that (- '*) will signal an error, and if the t branch of the cond gets executed on an * that will happen. 23:09:55 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 23:12:04 cl-youdon't-cc 23:12:06 lol 23:12:48 cc-youdo-cl 23:12:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-191-18.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:15:56 l_r: as stassats` said before, annotate your pastes instead of continuously creating new ones please 23:17:03 yes 23:17:06 sorry 23:17:17 zmv [~zmv@189.120.173.189] has joined #lisp 23:17:57 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 23:20:33 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has joined #lisp 23:20:43 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:21:41 spike2251 [~user@c-76-24-24-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:34 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-76-24-24-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:24:51 spike2251 [~user@c-76-24-24-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:34 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:27:45 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:29:25 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 23:29:53 tcr1 [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:29:54 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:18 klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-210-29.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:31:11 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 23:31:12 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:20 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 23:35:42 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:17 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:20 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.87.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:37:37 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 23:39:53 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:05 herdrick [~herdrick@c-24-6-49-99.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:41 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 23:43:59 probably a chess algorithm 23:44:22 what's probably a chess algorithm? 23:44:25 no, othello 23:44:32 l_r's program 23:44:42 no, igo 23:44:55 I bet it's actually Chebache :P 23:46:42 hah! it is Othello 23:46:46 http://norvig.com/paip/othello2.lisp 23:46:58 and I think Norvig probably qualifies as a guru :p 23:47:23 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:26 I knew I'd seen that code before 23:47:38 so much for the mystery 23:47:41 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.50.248] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:48:01 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:21 http://norvig.com/paip/othello.lisp is a part of it too 23:49:55 *dlowe* is going to have to go back to his paip 23:50:25 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 23:50:30 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:50:44 PAIP as in (Some) People Are (Mostly) Interested (In) People? 23:51:02 Principles of Artificial Intelligence Programming 23:51:59 Well, that sounds more like something Norvig would write about. 23:53:25 the main thing i dislike about this code is constants 23:53:38 and constants without any headgear, like ++ 23:58:11 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:58:11 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme]