00:00:25 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA007B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 00:01:50 -!- chp [~chp@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:02:35 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189646.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:04:41 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.230] has joined #lisp 00:05:58 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:06:05 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:06:13 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189646.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 00:10:04 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:10:04 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:10:52 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:01 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:08 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-158-248.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:19:50 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 00:22:53 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-72.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:45 rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has joined #lisp 00:29:48 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has joined #lisp 00:32:26 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:32:55 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-189646.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:34:19 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:34:33 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:34:54 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 00:37:54 chp [~chp@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:43:50 Farzad [~root@46.225.96.167] has joined #lisp 00:44:08 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.19.203.52] has quit [Quit: marsell] 00:44:31 how do i map over properties of a class? 00:45:39 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.182.166] has quit [Quit: good night...] 00:46:22 Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.214.161] has joined #lisp 00:48:06 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:48:17 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: goodbye blue sky, goodbye] 00:48:25 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:49:03 Farzad: One option is the MOP. 00:50:28 Farzad: http://www.dreamincode.net/code/snippet5500.htm  you might find that useful. 00:50:47 Farzad: in CL, they are called "slots" 00:51:08 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 00:52:19 -!- brandelune_ [~suzume@pl090.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune_] 00:55:40 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:35 LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.239.122] has joined #lisp 00:57:07 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:57:32 thanks guys, totally usefull! 00:57:32 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has joined #lisp 00:58:21 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 00:58:24 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 00:58:33 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:00:13 Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has joined #lisp 01:00:52 is weblocks having compatibility problems with clsql? i'm frustrated with the clsql demo not working :/ 01:01:09 What did the weblocks list say? 01:01:21 abselutely nothing 01:01:36 That says a lot. 01:01:49 what does it mean? 01:02:21 It seems likely that there are not enough people using weblocks to support new users who run into problems. 01:02:58 Not promptly, anyway. 01:03:06 too bad :/ i really liked the idea of widgets and continuations 01:03:38 You might be able to make some progress by reading the source and whatever documentation is available and supporting yourself. 01:04:53 frankly the doc are not clear. they expect you to know alot while well, they skipped a lot of details 01:05:27 *LaPingvino* is back :) 01:05:38 but going to eat a little quite soon 01:05:42 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.53] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:05:51 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:09:50 afaik weblocks is not maintained anymore 01:10:17 maybe someone can integrate some form of literate programming in an obvious way in slime... :) 01:10:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:10:50 so the code's maintainability can increase 01:12:07 LaPingvino: how much of LP are you looking for? 01:13:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@191.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:13:40 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.22.124] has joined #lisp 01:13:48 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:17:23 LaPingvino: literate programming can be done in lisp+emacs 01:19:01 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:23 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:22:36 LaPingvino: make that lisp+emacs+orgmode. the integration isn't exactly perfect, but it's acceptably good. an example is at http://github.com/madnificent/is-right/ . I haven't revisited (nor really reread) the text which i've written, so it's not as nice as it could be, but it seems to be the most productive for me at the moment. 01:23:02 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28:21 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:28:35 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:31:51 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:33:22 *Xach* hacks more useful stuff into commando 01:33:23 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 01:33:46 -!- chp [~chp@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-01.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:33:52 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 01:34:16 Holy SHIT! I had always completely ignored the "Master Index" part of the CLHS. I shouldn't have! 01:35:16 It's a real treasure trove. For instance you can easily see all the functions that take a :test parameter at a glance. 01:38:55 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:39:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:40:59 -!- Farzad [~root@46.225.96.167] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:41:35 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:43:19 dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has joined #lisp 01:45:24 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:46:57 Haha! http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/NoUp.htm 01:50:40 about ABCL, did they really release a 1.0.0 recently? 01:50:42 sounds cool :) 01:50:51 what does that mean in this case? 01:51:25 LaPingvino: It means they now purport to conform to the Common Lisp specification entirely. 01:51:37 Hexstream: that's quite cool :) 01:51:37 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:52:10 my (ex-?)employer will love to hear that :) 01:52:14 I guess 01:57:04 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 02:00:33 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-140-14.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 02:01:29 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 02:01:44 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA007B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:02:35 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-195-126.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:02:54 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 02:04:56 gko [~gko@27.243.87.191] has joined #lisp 02:05:58 _nix00 [~Adium@116.228.89.171] has joined #lisp 02:10:28 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-113.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:54 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:54 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:14:27 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:16:47 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:16 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:20 -!- LaPingvino [~LaPingvin@187.87.239.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:23:54 nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:02 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 02:28:07 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 02:28:20 Hello Dragons! 02:28:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:02 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:29:02 How come (elt (cons 0 1) 0) => 1 but (elt (cons 0 1) 1) => error 02:29:35 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 02:30:10 mon_key: What did you expect? 02:30:14 I would expect the former to error as well as (cons 0 1) is an improper list 02:30:30 and as such not a proper sequence 02:31:03 mon_key: I think only a few functions that are defined to operate on proper sequences are required to signal an error. 02:31:25 The spec says it should signal a type-error elt is 02:31:43 Be precise. What does the spec actually say? 02:32:17 "Should be prepared to signal an error of type type-error if SEQUENCE is not a proper sequence. Should signal an error of type type-error if INDEX is not a valid sequence index for SEQUENCE." 02:32:40 I think "be prepared to" is the important bit, though I don't know for sure. 02:32:58 ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has joined #lisp 02:33:31 mon_key: aha, see http://l1sp.org/cl/1.4.2 02:33:35 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B69A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:49 The distinction is made there 02:34:26 Xach: wow. good find. Thanks! 02:35:22 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B135.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:36:13 I wonder if any implementations do signal for taking the elt 1 of an improper list? As currently configured neither my SBCL or Clisp do. 02:36:36 mon_key: well, it would get pretty expensive as the list grows. 02:37:09 Xach: in quicklisp, my queues library is split up into several separate .asd files. There is a queues package (for the interface), but it has no distinct .asd file. Because of this, in quicklisp, you can't just request "queues" to pull down the library. Should I touch an empty queues.asd file in the repo, or how should I handle that? 02:38:12 -!- dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:38:32 oconnore: I don't see it as much of an issue. 02:38:50 oconnore: There is no real requirement that a project has a system that has the same name as the project. 02:39:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:40:21 axion [~axion@cpe-67-242-80-89.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:35 -!- Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:40:40 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:40:55 ok, you finally have me on board for my preferred language, thanks to sykopomp and derrida 02:41:39 Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has joined #lisp 02:41:54 Xach: I guess I'm improperly assuming that two elt dotted lists would benefit from some low-level tagging. I wonder if the old lisp machine with "cdr coding" were more "prepared to signal"? 02:42:27 mon_key: a "two elt dotted list" looks exactly the same as a "million elt dotted list" from the front. 02:43:01 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:43:54 -!- Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:44:08 Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has joined #lisp 02:45:01 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:45:19 If someone with cl-who experience has a moment, I need someone to hit me over the head and tell me what I'm doing wrong making this combo box http://paste.lisp.org/display/126177 02:45:46 fisxoj: i haven't looked yet, but 98% of the time it is "did not read the evaluation rules" 02:45:57 sounds right 02:46:41 that is a creative bit of bogosity right there 02:46:53 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 02:47:09 -!- Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:47:23 Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has joined #lisp 02:47:56 fisxoj: one option is to make (user-combo) a function that writes to the cl-who output stream directly with a new cl-who:with-html-output form. 02:48:06 nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:27 I'm glad you think it's at least creative :P I'll try that 02:48:30 fisxoj: you can't really "embed" cl-who forms via calls to functions or macros. the evaluation rules don't work like that. instead the sub-forms must write out what you need them to write to the stream. 02:48:43 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:29 fisxoj: it's a little like writing (defclass foo () ((slot-list))) where (defmacro slot-list () "((name :initarg :name) (title :initarg :title))") 02:49:40 it's mixing up things on multiple levels. 02:49:51 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-253-90.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 02:50:51 well, I get a similar headache looking at your example as the one I've been making myself for a bit now 02:51:00 thank you for the explanation, I'm going to try again 02:51:10 My example? 02:51:17 Oh, right. 02:52:58 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:58 -!- topo [~topo@f053047228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:53:13 topo [~topo@f053047228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:55:25 -!- Pomo [~Pomo@192.188.108.71] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:32 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:59:09 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:59:57 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 03:00:10 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 03:01:00 Xach, http://paste.lisp.org/display/126177#1 thanks 03:01:20 topo__ [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:02:22 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:02:49 fisxoj: It doesn't have to (and should not) be a macro 03:03:11 -!- topo [~topo@f053047228.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:03:12 -!- topo__ is now known as topo 03:03:34 the cl-who manual has an example for almost that exact thing. 03:04:32 MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:44 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:04:52 mon_key: like C compilers, most CL implementations are somewhat speed-conscious. Less than C compilers, but still. That's why the standard allows implementations, and most if not all of them don't check the properness of list arguments. 03:05:55 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:07:57 pjb: Yes. Just made me curious if there were possibility that some hardware level implementation in the older lisp gear that made such type checks less expensive. 03:08:24 cdr-coding didn't distinguish dotted lists. 03:08:43 pjb. OK Thanks (: 03:09:10 The problem of making that less expensive is that tails of lists are often shared, and are mutable. 03:09:30 Said otherwise, remember that there's no list adt in lisp. 03:10:06 for posterity: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/faqs/lang/lisp/part2/faq-doc-9.html 03:11:08 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:13:48 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:02 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:23:37 How can I remove all definitions and variables in the sbcl interpreter? 03:23:44 chp [~user@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:25 Quaydon: (sb-ext:quit) and restart is one way 03:24:32 Quaydon: FSVO "all" 03:28:00 Xach, Im not sure I understand your second response. Im looking for a way to "start fresh" without exiting the interpreter. 03:28:52 Quaydon: there isn't necessarily a terse way to do that. if you've created a new package for your project, and carefully worked within it, (delete-package 'your-package-name) might do what you want. 03:29:31 Quaydon: this will get you something reasonably void: (progn (defpackage "") (in-package "")) 03:30:29 -!- nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:30:29 Void in the brain perhaps. 03:30:58 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:30:59 (: 03:31:11 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:32:32 Hmmm I may have to look into that I have never used packages. 03:34:00 Quaydon: FWIW (defpackage "") doesn't use packages either (: 03:34:16 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.84] has joined #lisp 03:35:02 mon_key, FWIW? Im not sure I understand, Im a newb. 03:37:53 marsell [~marsell@101.116.38.6] has joined #lisp 03:37:58 Quaydon: Likely you will want to do: (defpackage "TONSOFUN" (:use "COMMON-LISP")) (in-package "TONSOFUN") 03:37:59 -!- marsell [~marsell@101.116.38.6] has quit [Client Quit] 03:39:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41:27 Quaydon: IOW, if your package doesn't have at minimum a (:USE "COMMON-LISP") form you prob. won't find it to be very useful. 03:42:53 Xach, mon_key, Ok thanks guys. I think this new info will point me in the right direction. 03:42:54 Quaydon: how the hell did you get by without using packages? 03:42:58 o.O 03:43:02 that's like doing C without headers 03:43:37 Ralith, Im new, this is my first "real" lisp program. 03:43:42 ah. 03:43:47 what are you learning from? 03:44:07 Like what did I know beforehand? 03:44:15 no, what book are you using 03:44:48 (I'll want to know the answer to the other question so I/we can recommend you a good book, if you aren't using one) 03:45:16 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.84] has joined #lisp 03:46:17 -!- gko [~gko@27.243.87.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:46:46 Ah, im using primarially Obect-Oriented Common Lisp, by Stephen Slade and Object Oriented Programming The CLOS perspective, by Andreas Paepcke 03:47:32 *primarily.... I can't spell :( 03:47:51 I have not had time to read much of the latter book. 03:49:12 I've never heard of those; can anyone else comment? 03:49:34 I like the former It is a very nice reference book IMO 03:49:43 you don't need a reference book for CL 03:49:45 you have the CLHS 03:50:14 CLHS? 03:50:27 *Ralith* fails to recall which, if any, bots are alive right now 03:50:33 Quaydon: the Common Lisp HyperSpec 03:50:50 deeply crossreferenced HTML documentation 03:51:03 extremely useful, can be wired to any decent IDE for automatic doc lookup 03:51:17 Pomo [~Pomo@192.188.108.71] has joined #lisp 03:51:28 and authoritative to boot 03:51:36 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 03:52:21 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:32 Quaydon: anyway, focusing on CLOS strikes me as a rather odd way to start learning CL. What's your background? 03:52:36 -!- rme [rme@A955740.5174A474.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:52:36 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.147.52] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:53:29 Ok well maybe reference book is not the right word, It definitely explains concepts and has many simple and clear examples. Some subjects its not too indepth on though. 03:54:42 Ralith, Im a 4th year student. Lots of java, python, c++ (even though i suck at it), basic scripting and stuff. 03:55:00 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55:06 Quaydon: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ comes *very* highly recommended. 03:55:27 Ralith, Ah yes I have been there a few times :) 03:55:31 good 03:55:33 Quaydon: don't fret about packages too much you can have lots of fun learning CL using just the CL-USER package - just prefix all the symbols you define with "quay-" 03:56:06 Quaydon: I'd advise you work through it sequentially; it is a very good introduction for someone with a solid non-lisp programming background. 03:56:21 Emacs lisp managed to get very far with a flat namespace... 03:56:34 much to our charign. 03:59:00 Yes I think for this project I will skip namespaces for now. Im building a chess game / ai and have learned a LOT of lisp in the past couple of weeks. 03:59:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:59:39 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:47 I may be bold / naive enough to say its my new favorite language. 04:00:48 -!- topo [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:03 topo [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:01:06 you won't find many inclined to talk you out of that here 04:01:27 Xach, thanks again, I re-fixed it to be like the tutorial 04:02:09 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8FD66.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:02:54 topo__ [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:02:55 -!- topo [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:02:55 -!- topo__ is now known as topo 04:05:00 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8FA83.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:06 -!- topo [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:19 topo [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:05:58 topo__ [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:05:59 -!- topo [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:59 -!- topo__ is now known as topo 04:06:13 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:13:32 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:17:23 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:21:25 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0B11.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:22:04 -!- CrazyEddy [~septuagen@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:26:26 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ayqllybcoaqdlnjf] has joined #lisp 04:30:57 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:12 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:24 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 04:34:02 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: goodbye blue sky, goodbye] 04:36:02 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 04:42:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ayqllybcoaqdlnjf] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:45:42 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:53 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:46:40 Is there a trick to getting clsql postgresql without socket working? 04:47:12 I installed quicklisp again, but libpq is still not found or build during the installation. 04:48:18 I'll check back tomorrow. 04:48:20 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:43 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:58:30 chenbing` [~user@115.205.3.182] has joined #lisp 04:59:49 -!- chenbing [~user@60.186.105.206] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:02:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:05:38 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:06:23 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has joined #lisp 05:07:32 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:08:15 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-bnbxuowtsnhpdqpz] has joined #lisp 05:08:15 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-bnbxuowtsnhpdqpz] has quit [Changing host] 05:08:15 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:27:26 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 05:27:56 Cloud__ [~cbp@187.193.214.161] has joined #lisp 05:31:44 -!- Cloud_ [~cbp@187.193.214.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:31:49 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:32:32 derrida [~derrida-f@www.informalcode.com] has joined #lisp 05:32:33 -!- derrida [~derrida-f@www.informalcode.com] has quit [Changing host] 05:32:33 derrida [~derrida-f@unaffiliated/deleuze] has joined #lisp 05:37:52 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.85] has joined #lisp 05:37:52 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.85] has quit [Changing host] 05:37:52 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:40:00 -!- chp [~user@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:23 -!- chenbing` [~user@115.205.3.182] has left #lisp 05:49:14 chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has joined #lisp 05:51:23 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:53:49 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:54:42 dmiles_a2k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-49-116.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 05:55:28 -!- dmiles_a1k [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-155.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:57:07 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 06:03:36 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:48 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:05:25 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 06:09:18 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:10:42 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 06:11:22 cnl_ [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 06:12:06 -!- cnl_ [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Client Quit] 06:16:26 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-csvbshjwiguhduth] has joined #lisp 06:16:26 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-csvbshjwiguhduth] has quit [Changing host] 06:16:26 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:17:17 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:19:26 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 06:23:58 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:24:14 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:25:39 what is the memory requirement for ECL? do I have a chance with a 32MB embedded device? 06:26:13 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-48-226.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:26:18 Interesting question. I do not know, but I would like to know, attila_lendvai 06:26:49 *attila_lendvai* is googling but it doesn't seem to yield answers for now 06:28:09 What's the memory usage of a basic ECL instance? 06:28:09 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:29:13 attila_lendvai: what platform? 06:29:25 attila_lendvai: also, code type immensely relevant 06:29:37 p_l: I don't know yet. I guess it's a 32bit ARM 06:30:21 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:31:33 attila_lendvai, http://ecls.sourceforge.net/new-manual/re34.html#table.memory.limits 06:31:50 *attila_lendvai* is building ECL 06:32:00 :) 06:32:09 yep, seen that, but those are only the defaults 06:32:21 the problem is that afaik there's no good reporting facility, so you have to resort to stuff used with C 06:32:30 and those are *limits* 06:32:31 although a 256MB default heap doesn't suggest anything working around 32MB 06:33:03 attila_lendvai: it's virtual memory... 06:33:04 p_l: by reporting you mean reporting of the memory usage? 06:33:13 It suggests the heap will not grow larger than 256 MB, which I think is the most important thing in an embedded application. 06:33:28 (most important thing => knowing an allocation limit) 06:33:38 -!- Cloud__ [~cbp@187.193.214.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:33:38 attila_lendvai: yes 06:34:19 well, my allocation limit is 32MB, and if the ECL runtime needs 20 to start up, then I'll go with gambit or chicken scheme 06:34:54 I suppose the stupid way is to build a basic image with a connection to a serial printer and see what can be probed out of that 06:34:56 actually, probably less than 32MB because the libs in the C SDK probably also eat up some of that 06:36:56 well, RES (which is really bad metric) on a 64bit machine shows ~28MB after start, but that's bell&whistles ECL (threading, unicode, 64bit, and probably not optimized for size. Oh, and with the fat glibc) 06:37:45 hrm, that doesn't sound hopeless 06:38:59 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:40:07 attila_lendvai, Will you want a REPL and the whole 9 yards available on 32MiB? Or will you just want to be able to execute an application as a binary blob? 06:40:50 Quadrescence: I think the latter. I can test it on linux and when deployed I can live without a REPL and slime 06:41:53 attila_lendvai, Then I'm almost certain 32MiN will do. But I'm going to do a little experiment anyway. :) 06:42:15 MiB* 06:43:52 without any ECL knowledge I've started ecl_min, got a repl, and top shows 2660 as RES 06:44:03 2600 MB? KB? :P 06:44:20 good question... this is linux, I need to google that 06:44:34 s/linux/a unix/ 06:46:45 that would be ~2.6MiB 06:46:58 however, RES routinely lies 06:47:15 details are in: less /proc/14220/smaps 06:47:45 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.87.217] has joined #lisp 06:48:14 8.5 MB heap, 1500+2000 MB libc 06:49:08 is that a full ecl, including the repl? intel or arm? 06:49:14 but the embedded stuff will be statically linked and the code in ROM, so one of the libc component is not going to be in the 32M ram 06:49:58 again, I have no idea what I'm doing. I've make;build/ecl_min and seems like I have a repl on linux x64 06:50:08 ah, ok. 06:50:24 pretty nice! 06:51:09 the ecl_min exe is 4MB 06:52:38 attila_lendvai: ecl_min is afaik a minimal bootstrap of ECL, used to build the rest 06:54:07 quek [~read_eval@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 06:55:28 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.102] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:59:14 hrm, when starting ecl (as opposed to ecl_min) it uses 35MB heap 06:59:41 Hi ,with "(setq common-lisp-hyperspec-root "~/studio/lisp/api/Hyperspec/")"in .emacs ,when C-c C-d h on symbol ,the defautl lynx browser complains "unable to access documentt" but C-c C-d d works.then I google a issure,try "file://home/chenbing/studio/lisp/api/Hyperspec",and lynx locate a ftp protocyle obvious failed... 07:00:11 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:00:37 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 07:02:31 chenbing: if you are on a debian-like linux, then just sudo apt-get install hyperspec 07:03:58 -!- MrBusiness [~MrBusines@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:09:40 attila_lendvai:have apt installed , eval-buffer avoiding hyperspec config,restart slime ,and the same result C-d d works C-d h fail 07:10:57 chenbing: C-c C-d d documentation comes from the lisp vm, so that's unrelated. also make sure you restart emacs (not only slime) 07:11:14 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:11:39 KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 07:12:05 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ihoodfouesghvirc] has joined #lisp 07:12:13 -!- Euthy` [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:12:15 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 07:13:06 setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 07:14:03 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.50.134] has joined #lisp 07:14:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:14:26 I hope so after a short leaving ,thank u 07:14:37 katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 07:14:54 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:15:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.87.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:15:45 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:17:20 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 07:17:20 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 07:17:28 chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has joined #lisp 07:17:56 great:-) just a pity that the lynx display fonts terribly small 07:19:26 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:21:48 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:24:08 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 07:24:17 evening 07:24:50 -!- PECCU is now known as peccu 07:25:16 beslyrus: hah 07:25:36 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 07:26:56 H4ns: what's so funny? 07:27:11 beslyrus: 8:27am here 07:27:13 oh, and beirc performance starts to degrade after a few days :( 07:27:16 oic 07:27:17 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:23 attila_lendvai: I have ECL binary that fresh from startup takes ~5MiB 07:27:36 well, top o' the mornin' then to ya h4ns 07:27:57 *H4ns* rubs his eyes. 07:28:28 *beslyrus* got heckled for being an old-sk00l lisper in #clojure earlier today 07:28:45 attila_lendvai: though it doesn't use unicode 07:29:17 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 07:29:22 p_l: hrm, that sounds small. I'll also keep an eye on ECL then, but now I'll play around with gambit 07:31:14 attila_lendvai: i tried chicken scheme in an embedded project (motorola coldfire based, 32 mb ram), but the ad-hoc-ness of all the libraries quickly annoyed me enough to have me replace it with javascript. 07:32:13 H4ns: by ad-hoc-necc you mean the scheme libraries in general? (afaiu gambit is a simple scheme, just compiles to C) 07:32:13 attila_lendvai: that was still with 64bit pointers 07:33:35 attila_lendvai: "scheme libraries" does not mean the same thing as "cl libraries". with chicken scheme, i found that in practice, i could use what the chicken scheme author wrote. using random code written in "scheme" did not work that well. 07:33:41 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:55 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:34:14 hrm, that doesn't sound too good 07:34:17 attila_lendvai: but maybe it was me. just saying. 07:34:54 attila_lendvai: could also bethat gambit is different than chicken scheme. also, that experience was like 5 years ago. 07:37:36 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:00 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-155-69.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:30 good morning 07:41:05 attila_lendvai: my rule of thumb is to look at every single scheme implementation as a different language that has no other compatible implementations 07:42:13 one thing that makes me less nervous is that the most complex lib-like stuff I'll need is an HTTP client and xml output 07:42:30 ...or at least that's how it looks like for now 07:42:44 well, we'll see if my current crazy attempt with ECL works 07:42:53 the bootstrap compiler runs (ecl_min) 07:43:04 attila_lendvai: Lua might be a better fit. 07:43:35 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:48:18 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.22.124] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:53:09 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:29 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:53:49 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:54:14 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-113.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:58:46 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 07:58:49 pon1980 [~pon@195.67.88.105] has joined #lisp 07:59:17 ... don't you hate it when you suddenly notice you forgot to build with threads? 07:59:46 -!- chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:00:18 marsell [~marsell@101.116.33.113] has joined #lisp 08:02:27 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@119.201.52.190] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:33 setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 08:02:55 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 08:06:29 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 08:06:54 (trying to build a small 32bit ECL image) 08:07:24 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 08:08:52 attila_lendvai: out of some possible tweaks for embedded use - compile everything targeting thumb mode 08:08:55 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 08:08:59 (assuming ARM platform) 08:09:18 *attila_lendvai* makes a note 08:09:29 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-48-226.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:09:45 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:10:27 who is the author/are the comitters of ECL who are usually on #lisp? (and most probably don't use their proper names here) 08:10:32 it will be slower, but the actual executable code will take less space 08:10:56 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:11:08 IOW, who are the #lisp nicks to talk to regarding ECL? e.g. p_l, do you have the commit bit? 08:11:18 attila_lendvai: nah, I'm just playing around 08:11:39 attila_lendvai: ECL just happens to be on a list of things that might be useful soon to me 08:12:04 dlowe [~dlowe@digital.sanctuary.org] has joined #lisp 08:12:16 ECL can be integrated with XCode according to some random blog posts on the 'net. 08:13:05 what do you mean by "integrate"? 08:13:29 If you mean "include in build process of a project in XCode", then yes 08:14:08 I mean it can be evidently linked into a project and executed on an iPod/iTouch. 08:14:37 *pnathan* has not experimented with it yet 08:15:23 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:15:32 well, yeah, you can do that in variety of ways 08:15:43 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:16:28 among them, manually build your project using ECL's ASDF extensions and cross-compiler mode into a static library then link that library from your XCode project, iirc 08:16:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:16:48 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 08:17:52 kilon [~kilon@adsl-135.46.190.57.tellas.gr] has joined #lisp 08:18:09 morning 08:18:27 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-sjrlizvwpfqsupqk] has joined #lisp 08:18:56 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:20:19 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 08:26:20 -!- quek [~read_eval@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has left #lisp 08:30:04 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:30:31 -!- H4ns [57bd78d0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.120.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:30:36 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:31:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:31:47 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:31:58 -!- Diaoer [~Diaoer@116.239.4.194] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:32:24 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:32:55 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-rjkqenimhbobpyuw] has joined #lisp 08:34:11 ASau` [~user@95-27-132-224.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 08:35:19 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:35:19 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:35:59 Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-91-97.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:36:18 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:02 nostoi [~nostoi@117.Red-81-32-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:38:04 -!- ASau [~user@89-178-106-102.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:38:54 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-48-226.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:39:49 chenbing [~user@115.205.3.182] has joined #lisp 08:40:06 eMBee: hi 08:42:20 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 08:42:36 algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-4-152.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:03 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:43:14 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 08:43:28 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:43:35 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-48-226.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:40 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest94110 08:44:41 Karl_H [~Karl_H@f049206094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 08:46:40 -!- algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-4-152.as13285.net] has left #lisp 08:47:51 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 08:48:23 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-48-226.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 08:48:48 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:49:13 -!- spacefrogg^ is now known as spacefrogg 08:51:30 H4ns [5ddbbd1f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.189.31] has joined #lisp 08:52:53 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.50.248] has joined #lisp 08:54:42 wow i find alot of hate articles for lisp... 08:54:51 http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.371875.57 08:55:02 http://www.lambdassociates.org/blog/bipolar.htm 08:55:15 kilon: so? 08:55:39 kilon: if you want to discuss those, maybe you want to find a channel that is visited by lisp haters. 08:55:51 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:55:53 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 08:56:01 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 08:56:14 no i just entered the world of lisp yesterday, and the arguments he uses dont convince me anyway 08:56:32 i am just suprised by the passion of hate 08:56:43 why do you post the links here, then? 08:57:17 well to stimulate discussion 08:57:25 is that bad ? 08:57:53 kilon: you don't walk into a bar and hand out flyers by the alcoholics anonymous to "stimulate discussion", or do you? 08:58:25 sorry i dont see the relevance 08:58:58 i do. if you want to discuss lisp, please discuss. but don't post links to lisp hating rants. 08:58:59 i am just someone that had been just introduced to lisp and try to get a general feel of what the benefits and what are the weaknesses of the language, is that wrong ? 08:59:00 thanks. 08:59:19 yes. 08:59:25 !!! 08:59:28 ok 08:59:31 fair enough 08:59:42 i will say only good things about lisp 08:59:54 -!- kilon [~kilon@adsl-135.46.190.57.tellas.gr] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 08:59:58 wtf 09:02:36 kilon [~kilon@adsl-175.46.190.57.tellas.gr] has joined #lisp 09:02:54 sorry incoming and outgoing fax disconnects me 09:05:19 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 09:05:58 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:06:37 by the way i did not intend to annoy with my previously posted link, i was just look for the good and bads of lisp to see if its a right fit for me thats all 09:06:49 kilon: you should try it instead of reading some random rants. 09:07:02 i already do of course 09:07:09 kilon: please stop the meta discussion. read, try to understand, ask specific questions. 09:07:43 fair enough 09:07:59 i will ask only questions from now on 09:09:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:09:36 is there a trick to get the new version of hunchentoot to actually accept post parameters instead of converting everything to get parameters ? 09:10:12 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:10:14 Harag: are you saying that hunchentoot does not accept post parameters for you? 09:10:43 yes if I use a easy handler, by the looks of it 09:10:54 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:11 Harag: did you look at :hunchentoot-test? it tests post parameters, too. 09:11:52 H4ns: I noticed it the first time when I tried to upload a file 09:11:57 Harag: maybe paste a piece of code that demonstrates the problem. 09:12:12 busy 09:12:19 kilon: How's the second link a "lisp hate article"? 09:12:53 Hi everybody . Does anybody know a project retrievable with quicklisp that uses the cffi-groveler and works on windows7? Yesterday I tried to load osicat and got errors resulting in wrong paths. I use ClozureCL. 09:13:02 my mistake sorry, i thought it was about hate, but apparently it is not , Euthy 09:13:50 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.50.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:14:12 And I would like to know if the problem is the cffi-grovel or the osicat lib. 09:14:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/126180 09:15:42 Harag: :method :post, not :type :post 09:15:56 pffft 09:15:59 eish 09:16:03 sorry 09:17:13 thanx H4ns 09:17:18 Harag: sure 09:20:58 Nobody? 09:24:57 here is a question. Anyone used or has experience of lisp on iOS ? is there any lisp or similar languages that can be used on ipad ? 09:25:26 so far i have found Pixie Scheme III but it looks rather limited 09:25:34 kilon: the #lisp answer is "yes, sure, it works". the real answer is "no" 09:25:49 0_0 09:26:10 kilon: lisp "runs" on everything, but you need to really want it hard. 09:26:39 from what i gather it would possible to make a lisp intepreter using lisp that compiles to objective c , right ? 09:27:16 kilon: take embeddable common lisp (ecl) - that produces C source and uses your host compiler to get binaries 09:27:21 not that i am going to try anything like this soon 09:27:35 thanks flip214 09:30:04 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:49 Xach: Sorry for answering late - yes, I solved my Slime/Swank problem. Thanks for help! 09:32:14 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:33:21 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:33:24 anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has joined #lisp 09:33:36 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:34:13 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:35:30 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@f049206094.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:36:15 -!- kilon [~kilon@adsl-175.46.190.57.tellas.gr] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 09:36:15 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890745.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:37:13 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@117.Red-81-32-246.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 09:40:12 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:bca9:5df6:c304:f606] has joined #lisp 09:44:42 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 09:46:23 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 09:49:22 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:50:30 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-kubfiqyjbshynepr] has joined #lisp 09:53:06 Karl_H [~Karl_H@f049135013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:55:04 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:55:57 Soulman [~knute@80.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:56:10 situ [~quassel@118.102.200.42] has joined #lisp 09:56:12 quek [~read_eval@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has joined #lisp 09:57:59 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:59:22 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:02:41 benkard_ [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:bca9:5df6:c304:f606] has joined #lisp 10:02:44 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:03:32 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:04:32 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:06:13 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:bca9:5df6:c304:f606] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:13 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 10:07:55 -!- situ [~quassel@118.102.200.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10:33 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:10:49 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:16:57 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B32692B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:18 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-253-90.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:17:47 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 10:19:22 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:bca9:5df6:c304:f606] has quit [Quit: benkard] 10:19:27 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5082AE94.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:22:35 wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.57.183] has joined #lisp 10:23:36 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@f049135013.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:31:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:32:28 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 10:33:14 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:33:31 kilon_away [~kilon@adsl-23.46.190.52.tellas.gr] has joined #lisp 10:35:13 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-72.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 10:36:10 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:37:01 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-203-98.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 10:38:17 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 10:41:23 i am about to purchase Land of Lisp , the book, any thoughts ? anyone read it ? 10:41:28 -!- kilon_away is now known as kilon 10:41:47 http://nostarch.com/lisp.htm 10:41:49 I didn't read it, but I like the song. 10:42:13 hehe did not it was a song too 10:42:27 *know 10:42:46 i am ok reading online material, but i love real books as well 10:42:53 kilon: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HM1Zb3xmvMc <-- PIANO SOLO 10:42:55 -!- quek [~read_eval@h210-253-209-222.ms01.itscom.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:42:56 osa1 [~sinan@141.196.0.198] has joined #lisp 10:44:49 Vutral [~ss@2a01:198:35a::1] has joined #lisp 10:45:36 i love this guy style hehe, cool song 10:46:08 I know, it's pure awesome :D:D 10:49:06 pinterface: If you find a great solution to your reference counting problem, then please let me know. I'm fighting with the same issues 10:50:20 gensym: phew 10:50:39 phryk: haha piano solo, hilarious 10:51:09 what the hell i am going to buy the book 10:51:20 Please do tell if you think it's good :) 10:51:23 bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:51:38 I was thinking about ordering it as well, but I don't know if I wanted to have a bit of a look into haskell before that. 10:52:13 phryk: did not know they are mutually exclusive 10:52:22 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:52:41 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 10:52:46 -!- H4ns [5ddbbd1f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.189.31] has quit [] 10:53:20 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@123-2-73-61.static.dsl.dodo.com.au] has joined #lisp 10:54:11 jdz: No they're not, but after I look into haskell I think I will sway into doing either more haskell or more lisp. 10:54:40 If I go into the haskell direction buying a lisp book might not be the best choice :) 10:54:58 phryk: buying lisp books is always a good choice 10:55:04 Heh. 10:57:51 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:58:10 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:32 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:58:47 Quadrescence: is defining a "yes" and "no" really preferable to using (constantly t) or (constantly nil)? 10:59:15 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:59:26 i have not looked into haskell yet, but lisp and squeak is the most i can handle right now 11:00:24 it also helps that there is a lisp intepreter for squeak 11:01:13 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:01:30 Neronus: I doubt a perfect solution is actually possible, but if I find it I'll be sure to share. :) 11:02:40 I'm currently providing two layers: One low-level layer where you have to take care of your reference counting yourself, and one high-level layer where the GC does that. But then I'll need to call the gc manually ever so often, or my library will allocate memory like crazy 11:02:44 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:03:29 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-8-52.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 11:04:55 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:00 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:11 -!- bwright [~bwright@c122-106-254-100.belrs3.nsw.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:10:18 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:11:30 xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 11:11:56 pinterface: It doesn't solve the "GC runs too late problem", but couldn't we, instead of allowing access to the pointers via slots, provide a macro used like this (with-pointers ((ptr1 wrapper1) (ptr2 wrapper2)) ,@body) that increases the reference count of each pointer before body is called and decreases it after the body is called? That would take care of the reference counting problem in the case of calling foreign code and callbacks 11:13:39 Provided the library you are wrapping plays along nicely, i.e., you can make it hold on to references with reference count zero for as long as you are increasing reference counts 11:14:12 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-25-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:14:53 Yeah. That's pretty much how I'd implement the "corral" idea. ;) 11:15:38 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.127] has joined #lisp 11:15:42 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:16:45 ignas [~ignas@85-206-22-190.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 11:18:06 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-25-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:18:28 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:19:33 killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 11:21:54 phryk: order placed, already downloaded pdf so i dont have to wait for the book to arrive 11:22:23 :) 11:22:44 Neronus: You could make your high-level interface GC whenever it gets called. Frequent culling of the nursery might not be too bad performance-wise, if your problem is lots of consing of things that can be quickly GCed. 11:22:48 -!- waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:23:33 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-25-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:24:30 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-25-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:24:34 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-235-176.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 11:24:47 Bit of a brunt option, though. 11:25:15 pinterface: Yupp. I think I'll just point users to trivial-garbage 11:25:40 -!- peccu is now known as PECCU 11:26:26 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:26:50 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:06 Karl_H [~Karl_H@f049098097.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:27:11 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-93-89.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:28:18 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-25-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:28:38 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:47 :) 11:35:54 -!- kilon is now known as kilon_away 11:38:50 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 11:39:21 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:40:20 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:43 hi 11:41:04 O.T. question: is there anyone owning a Photosmart C6280? 11:41:56 O.T. questions are O.T. here 11:42:04 lispbeginner [959c43ed@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.156.67.237] has joined #lisp 11:43:19 Hello, my question is - how to initialize random number generator in Common LISP? I mean how to make (randomize range) produce diffrent values evry time program is runed again. 11:44:36 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:08 (random 100) 11:46:39 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:47:23 nope, that does not initialize rng 11:47:53 lispbeginner: you have to use make-random-state 11:47:59 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:48:19 To set *random-state* global variable? 11:48:32 a randommize seed ...en 11:48:41 lispbeginner: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_random.htm 11:49:13 Thank you 11:50:25 how about (random (random max_integer))? 11:50:47 are there deterministic pseudorandom number generators for lisp? i haven't found a library for it last time i checked and it could be handy for tests (but it'd need to be seperated from what lisp uses internally) 11:51:36 madnificent: mt19937 11:54:48 chenbing: that won't work, the problem is that the seed doesn't change when you run the program, so you can chain as many random as you wish the result will still be the same. 11:56:06 Eh... but new state is also the same every run :D 11:56:47 lispbeginner: read the doc 11:57:04 lispbeginner: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_mk_rnd.htm#make-random-state 11:57:12 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-25-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:18 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:57:25 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:57:36 ah, right 11:58:09 OK, got things working 11:58:29 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:58:41 lispbeginner: clhs is your friend, learn how to use it. (C-c C-d h if you use emacs + slime) 12:00:14 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 12:00:34 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 12:01:53 ,h or ,dh for slimv ;) 12:05:27 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-25-148.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:09:50 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:10:05 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:12:38 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:02 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 12:16:57 -!- kami` is now known as kami 12:19:10 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@f049098097.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:20:27 H4ns [55b327fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.179.39.253] has joined #lisp 12:20:38 nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 12:22:42 CrazyEddy [~thrilling@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 12:23:37 -!- 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13:50:31 -!- marsell [~marsell@101.116.33.113] has quit [Quit: marsell] 13:51:19 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 13:52:18 stickycake [~stickycak@ool-ade56364.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:18 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56364.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:25 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.19.108] has joined #lisp 13:53:08 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:53:39 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:45 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:58:46 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 13:58:58 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:59:07 rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 14:00:48 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:12:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.146.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:13:10 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:13:36 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA10C3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:17:27 -!- entrix_ [~entrix@95-24-16-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:40 anybody familiar with ernestine? 14:21:17 *Xach* had not heard of it until today 14:22:13 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:13 it is a music player using mcclim 14:23:07 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 14:23:21 -!- H4ns [55b327fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.179.39.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:23:52 H4ns [55b327fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.179.39.253] has joined #lisp 14:26:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:28:00 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 14:28:03 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.50.248] has joined #lisp 14:28:32 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.146.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:29:31 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.50.248] has quit [Client Quit] 14:29:39 dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has joined #lisp 14:31:07 -!- pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:48 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:16 G'morning all. 14:33:55 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 14:34:29 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA05DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:37 hi ~all 14:35:04 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 14:36:48 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:37:03 -!- osa1 [~sinan@141.196.0.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:39:29 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@swsoft-msk-nat.sw.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:39:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-7.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 14:39:35 -!- kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:39:45 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:40:02 kpal [~kpal@janus-nat-128-240-225-120.ncl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:40:12 rtoym: does not support 64-bit stuff, or are x86-64 release binaries hidden somewhere? 14:40:19 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:43 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:56 -!- pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:57 *Xach* wonders if there was a missing "cmucl" in there 14:41:09 pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:41:17 *jdz* too, but then probably it's the one in the topic 14:41:17 yes :) 14:41:49 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:42:33 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:43:04 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-115-42-232.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:43:13 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:43:27 ok, seems no x86-64 for cmucl, so not even vaguely comparable benchmarks till i run sbcl and ccl as x86 version 14:43:33 RossDoughty [~rdoughty@zodiac2.gotadsl.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:44:54 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-8-52.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:47:38 algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-4-152.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:04 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-8-52.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 14:49:44 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f230:ad:14ff:413:c594] has quit [Quit: benkard] 14:50:06 oudeis [~oudeis@94.197.127.155.threembb.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:50:48 nicdev_ 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"SB-PCL::%TYPE-CHECK-FUNCTION is missing from the object" http://paste.lisp.org/display/126188, anybody else seen this problem? 15:01:50 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has left #lisp 15:02:53 petter`: what does (ql:where-is-system "clsql-postgresql") return? 15:04:24 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.57.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:04:31 Xach: Symbol "WHERE-IS-SYSTEM" not found in the QUICKLISP-CLIENT package. - I probably need a newer quicklisp on this system 15:04:51 petter`: i think if you update the dist, the problem will go away. 15:04:55 (ql:update-dist "quicklisp") 15:05:27 mihamina [~mihamina@41.190.237.66] has joined #lisp 15:05:43 too pro 15:05:56 -!- kilon_away [~kilon@adsl-23.46.190.52.tellas.gr] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:07:28 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:07:35 Xach: it sure did go away, thanks! I should have tried to upgrade first... 15:07:53 The client has a few new and useful things, too, when you update that. 15:08:00 (ql:update-client) for that 15:08:21 I like ql:where-is-system for troubleshooting and the ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ directory for local projects. 15:08:36 petter`: also, #p"~/quicklisp/setup.lisp" works fine in SBCL now. 15:09:34 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:09:34 Xach: I just upgraded the client, thanks for the pathname tip 15:10:10 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 15:11:50 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:40 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:17:07 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:17:23 anyone remembers if ACL personal edition supports delivery? 15:18:12 p_l: it does not. 15:18:51 H4ns: so no dumping images? 15:19:31 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:20:07 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:21:31 p_l: i think not, but please check with franz.com. last time i looked, the personal edition was crippled. 15:23:05 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 15:23:38 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:49 hmmm... image dumping is apparently supported 15:24:40 I suspect it will complain on certain combinations of arguments to generate-application or allow only to dump an image, but not link an executable 15:25:11 *p_l* is thinking of using AGraph in a student project 15:26:26 -!- Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-91-97.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 15:27:36 p_l: just inquire with support@franz.com - maybe they can help you with that. 15:28:09 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:28:55 yeah, if AGraph-based solution gets somewhere farther I'll probably do so 15:29:12 Just considering possible prototyping issues 15:29:35 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:30:28 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA05DA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:31:20 with the database module written in ACL 15:32:52 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 15:34:13 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:36:15  okay, wtf is a "neural database"? 15:37:04 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-218.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 15:37:51 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-200.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:38:33 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 15:40:17 -!- dcguru [~chatzilla@66.129.60.130] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.13/20101209123813]] 15:41:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:42:20 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:43:46 *kami* has a neural database between his ears 15:46:41 the last time I played with it the personal/trial ACL didn't have enough heap to reliably load hunchentoot. 15:49:52 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 15:50:26 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 15:51:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 15:52:20 -!- ignas [~ignas@85-206-22-190.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:20 Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-91-97.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 15:56:50 -!- mihamina [~mihamina@41.190.237.66] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:32 -!- danishman [~kvirc@93.160.236.42] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 15:59:22 Fade: it gets better, iirc, if you launch alisp and not the allegro gui 15:59:28 brb 16:00:35 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 16:02:17 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: time to go..] 16:02:53 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:02 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111122192043]] 16:04:26 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195.67.88.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:06:37 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:09:55 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-253-90.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 16:11:08 -!- H4ns [55b327fd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.179.39.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 16:12:29 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ihoodfouesghvirc] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:13:26 teggi [~teggi@123.20.58.106] has joined #lisp 16:14:02 -!- Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-91-97.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:14:21 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ....] 16:17:01 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@94.197.127.155.threembb.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:17:55 arbscht: aroundp 16:19:32 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:19:39 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:20:46 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:21:24 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:21:41 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-408625.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:21:48 pferor`` [~user@149.Red-2-136-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:06 KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 16:23:01 oudeis [~oudeis@host109-150-73-67.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 -!- pferor` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:26:08 -!- KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:26:09 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:26:12 -!- KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:27:14 sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 16:28:29 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:30:32 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:32:35 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:33:05 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:28 Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:33:47 does the clhs specify something about whether or not predicate is called for each argument in the sequence? it's important for side-effects that may occur. i can't seem to find it. 16:37:47 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:35 madnificent: Which function? 16:40:43 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-218.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:40:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:41:13 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:47 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:43:05 -!- algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-4-152.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: algal] 16:48:33 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 16:50:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.146.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:52:44 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:53:29 McRibbit [~user@zaza1.ida.liu.se] has joined #lisp 16:53:38 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-235-176.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:54:18 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-45-204.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:33 nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 16:55:40 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56364.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 16:55:40 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@ool-ade56364.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 16:55:51 morning 16:56:41 morning 16:58:04 -!- Guest94110 is now known as X-Scale 16:58:37 night 16:58:59 hey 16:59:19 why don't i see my own messages 17:00:01 wbooze: In what context? 17:00:18 beirc 17:00:27 maybe you ignored yourself? 17:00:46 no definitely not 17:02:12 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56364.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:15 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:08 your client is written in lisp? maybe it became alive... 17:03:10 -!- teggi [~teggi@123.20.58.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:15 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:34 "Something wonderful has happened. Your amiga is alive." 17:03:57 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56364.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:04:09 Question: what are the pros and cons of the libpq/uffi interface versus the socket interface for CLSQL Postgresql? 17:04:24 nyef: I think I still have mine in storage at a friend's house. I loved that machine... 17:04:46 jmckitrick: For me, the libpq/uffi interface kept crashing with memory faults. It was faster than the socket interface but not stable for me. This was 4-5 years ago. 17:04:56 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:05:00 Never had a problem with the socket interface. 17:05:11 jmckitrick: Have you considered using postmodern instead? 17:05:23 Xach: I think I had this discussion a long time as well, mostly encoding related. But I've found a way to use either now. 17:05:55 nyef: Well, I have a pretty large codebase already based on clsql, but then again, it might be worth making a switch. 17:06:02 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 17:06:03 I had this discussion earlier today with someone else, I think. 17:06:23 This particular project doesn't use the OO interface, so it might be a good candidate. 17:06:35 Xach: haha, yes, I thought this would be a better place to ask. 17:06:50 *Xach* can't keep track any more :( 17:06:59 The postgres channel suggested that marshalling across libpq would be a performance hit. 17:07:02 nyef: sorry, i was thinking about #'some and then i got sidetracked 17:07:16 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 17:07:17 pnathan: how about those library updates! 17:07:23 Xach: we appreciate the support. ;-) 17:07:31 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:07:49 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 17:07:51 nyef: What else does postmodern gain me? 17:08:04 Fewer reader macros? 17:08:16 Beyond that, I don't know. 17:12:47 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Quit: best short-url ever. ] 17:13:16 H4ns [5b3d5ac7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.90.199] has joined #lisp 17:13:25 elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has joined #lisp 17:16:15 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-72.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:31 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:17:31 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:22:51 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:24:37 ignas [~ignas@85-206-22-190.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 17:31:04 Cloud__ [~cbp@187.193.214.161] has joined #lisp 17:35:58 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-rjkqenimhbobpyuw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:52 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-140-186.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:37:18 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:37:58 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:38:40 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 17:40:19 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:40:42 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:35 marsell [~marsell@101.116.53.68] has joined #lisp 17:41:46 leo2007 [~leo@120.37.13.145] has joined #lisp 17:44:22 -!- msponge [~msponge@31-34-237.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 17:45:42 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:46:03 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:41 hellooo 17:46:43 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:03 Can you see yourself now? 17:47:40 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-kibwytfgzpudrzct] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:47:44 -!- TDT [~user@dhcpw80ffc47a.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:47:52 ... it's probably a problem with a MIRRORED-SHEET. d-: 17:48:33 no 17:48:37 ah, does not work on vampires 17:48:49 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:49:37 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:45 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:51:13 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-96-186.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:52:14 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:54:15 Xach: what's the current best way to install a dist other than the main quicklisp one? 17:54:36 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:54:37 I.e. if I have monkeydist up on my webserver is there an easy way to tell QL to grab the dist file? 17:55:49 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:55:51 (ql-dist:install-dist "http://your.site/distinfo.txt") 17:56:43 There it is. Some how I missed that in the tab completion. 17:57:37 Is a quicklisp dist update imminent or did it just happen? 17:58:07 *Xach* shakes his head as gigamonkey of all people is outed as a planet lisp nonreader 17:58:14 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 17:58:21 Hey! You booted me. Why should *I* read it. 17:58:30 ok, ok, that's fair. http://blog.quicklisp.org/2011/11/quicklisp-release-schedule.html 17:58:47 brown [user@nat/google/x-airvghoshvctncmr] has joined #lisp 17:59:08 it includes toot and manifest 17:59:09 Ah. So in theory you could probably include monkeylib-text-output, monkeylib-text-languages, monkeylib-html, toot, and manifest. 17:59:10 Ah. 17:59:13 -!- brown is now known as Guest33184 17:59:16 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 17:59:17 You'll need those other ones then. 17:59:26 But you probably figured that out. 17:59:28 -!- Guest33184 is now known as reb 17:59:49 aye 17:59:52 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:00:09 When did you grab them? 18:00:14 this morning 18:00:16 Okay. 18:00:22 That's as good as it gets at the moment. 18:00:26 and i will keep grabbing them every day until the release 18:00:33 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:43 Okay. I won't push anything weird or experimental. 18:00:56 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:00:57 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 18:01:18 should i try ecl or stick with sbcl? 18:01:50 axion: it depends on what you want to do. 18:02:30 homie: yeah, mcclim drawing in general and beirc drawing in particular are somewhat screwed up. I was hoping beach might spearhead an effort to redo some of that stuff, but it hasn't happened yet 18:02:56 i want speed above all (writing a filesystem tool), but also i am distributing a binary linux package so size matters :( 18:03:37 If I were you, I would stick with SBCL. 18:04:16 ok 18:04:53 What does your tool do? 18:05:22 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-72.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:45 its a package manager by means of a frontend to NILFS 18:05:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-72.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:45 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 18:06:08 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:07:12 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:07:25 -!- Cloud__ [~cbp@187.193.214.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:07:58 drake01__ [~drake01@59.178.49.225] has joined #lisp 18:08:24 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-kubfiqyjbshynepr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:08:52 -!- drake01__ [~drake01@59.178.49.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:09:17 msponge [~msponge@18.189.61.215] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.61.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:12:04 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 18:13:54 -!- ignas [~ignas@85-206-22-190.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:14:08 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:11 heh 18:14:52 i don't get it i can see my message in #beirc but not in #lisp ? 18:18:22 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:18:58 13WAA0JYC [~entrix@95-24-16-33.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 18:21:56 am0c [~am0c@211.246.71.146] has joined #lisp 18:22:12 -!- am0c [~am0c@211.246.71.146] has left #lisp 18:24:27 drake01__ [~drake01@59.178.49.225] has joined #lisp 18:26:52 -!- drake01__ [~drake01@59.178.49.225] has quit [Changing host] 18:26:52 drake01__ [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 18:27:01 -!- drake01__ is now known as drake01 18:27:21 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:24 -!- peccu is now known as PECCU 18:29:05 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-408625.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:30:56 Soulman1 [~knute@80.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:32:10 -!- `micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:32:37 -!- Soulman [~knute@80.80-202-254.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:33:29 -!- spacefrogg is now known as spacefrogg^ 18:34:13 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-218.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:34:47 `micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:13 -!- `micro is now known as Guest32797 18:38:37 Is it reasonable to declaim a method as INLINE? 18:39:19 it seems impossible (without declaiming the whole generic function inline) 18:39:25 Right 18:40:07 and I can't imagine how it could be actually inlined (of existing compilers, I'm only sure that SBCL won't do that) 18:40:55 I suppose it only could be if the class of the argument(s) can be statically determined. And I don't know if any compilers do that kind of static analysis 18:40:56 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:41:33 worse. It's very hard to know that a method with eql-specializer won't be added 18:41:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:43:32 Oh lisp, your dynamicism kills me sometimes 18:43:37 If CLOS is extended with some kind of "sealed" generics, then static analysis could make sense here. 18:43:52 pkhuong (?) was looking into that 18:45:20 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:45:48 stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-213-228.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:45:49 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-213-228.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:46:16 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 18:46:21 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:46:25 hello all 18:47:17 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:23 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:47:23 c_arenz [~arenz@1Cust195.tnt11.fft4.deu.da.uu.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:23 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:50:48 -!- Guest32797 is now known as golgotha 18:51:26 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:51:57 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:03 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 18:54:56 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 18:56:27 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:00 francogrex [~user@109.130.105.124] has joined #lisp 18:57:16 sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 18:59:46 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@1Cust195.tnt11.fft4.deu.da.uu.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:59:52 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:07 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 19:01:14 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:54 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:59 hellooo 19:02:59 -!- golgotha is now known as micro`` 19:03:05 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:03:27 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:08 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-gxgtpdebemcazhmc] has joined #lisp 19:07:46 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-8-52.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:09:57 -!- micro`` is now known as micro` 19:12:01 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:13:13 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 19:14:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:14:56 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:15:58 -!- McRibbit [~user@zaza1.ida.liu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:17:39 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 19:20:25 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:23:16 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.105.124] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:31 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 19:25:47 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-48.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:28:56 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 19:29:17 cmucl supports sealed classes. Methods can then be inlined in some cases. Don't know if that work was done before or after sbcl forked. 19:30:49 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:38:43 -!- benny [~benny@i577A287E.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:40:30 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 19:45:26 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:49:09 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-213-228.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 19:49:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:50:10 -!- Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:50:45 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:53:39 Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has joined #lisp 19:55:37 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 19:56:43 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:03 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 19:57:53 -!- pferor`` [~user@149.Red-2-136-186.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:26 pferor`` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:32 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-96-186.w92-142.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:02:51 sacho_ [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 20:06:08 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-246-203.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:06:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@120.37.13.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:44 almost certainly after 20:11:45 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:12:28 -!- ThePawnBreak [~quassel@94.177.108.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:13:14 well, at least every call site can be optimized optimistically ... if the CLOS hierarchy hasn't changed, and the type is as expected, just use the inline code, else dispatch to the generic 20:16:35 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.190] has joined #lisp 20:18:30 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:43 -!- kidfoo [~neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:48 Xach: ah, yes. I thought I could make it work with only gf sealing, but I'm pretty sure that's not enough. Xof had some code to make the PCL caches inline though, and that should alreayd help a lot. 20:22:36 backspac3 [~jt@S010600212f37ae27.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:59 waveman [~tim@203-214-39-56.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 20:25:33 am0c [~am0c@211.246.71.146] has joined #lisp 20:25:43 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 20:25:50 -!- am0c [~am0c@211.246.71.146] has left #lisp 20:30:30 Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.2, SBCL 1.0.53, CMUCL 20c, ABCL 1.0.0, R.I.P John McCarthy, ECLM videos at http://blip.tv/eclm 20:30:34 dang 20:30:38 -!- H4ns changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: Hunchentoot 1.2.2, SBCL 1.0.53, CMUCL 20c, ABCL 1.0.0, R.I.P John McCarthy, ECLM videos at http://blip.tv/eclm 20:33:43 kilon [~kilon@athedsl-400719.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 20:33:51 yay for :documentation 20:33:53 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has joined #lisp 20:34:03 nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-8-52.bb.dnainternet.fi] has joined #lisp 20:34:37 -!- pferor`` [~user@122.Red-2-137-179.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:34:54 Ah yes, *that* is why I wrote a project release wrangler. So I can update all my stuff with :documentation without having a release headache! 20:37:09 *Xach* can simply (release-wrangler:release "salza2" "2.0.7") and have it tagged, pushed, tarballed, signed, and docs published without interaction, hooray 20:37:37 Xach: nice. i need such a thing. 20:38:05 Mine is tuned for my setup, but I'll put it on github anyway, in keeping with my "publish as many half-baked embarrassing projects as possible" 20:38:10 policy 20:38:16 -!- art` is now known as foocraft 20:38:28 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-140-186.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:38:47 Xach: I too subscribe to said policy 20:38:59 Hah. As if. Yours are way more polished. 20:39:00 sometimes they make it all the way to 2/3 baked 20:39:26 I really enjoyed using commando for the project. 20:39:41 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:39:41 Xach: i'll have a look. i'm only starting making releases, so i'm not yet completely sure what i require and what can be automated. 20:40:04 H4ns: It might not be worth anything for your purposes, unfortunately. My needs are pretty simple. 20:40:39 Xach: so are mine, but they are different, too. uploading to github is one thing that i'll need to figure out. 20:40:48 wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:57 Xach: commando looks nice... we have a half-baked shim layer over run-program too... It will be interesting to compare notes and hopefully contribute some 20:41:05 Xach: anyway, please let me know if there are issues with hunchentoot 1.2.2 20:41:23 H4ns: will do. it builds cleanly. i'll build the rest of the world and see how it goes. 20:41:34 Xach: i learned that you're pulling the porter stemmer from bknr.net 20:41:53 Should I change? 20:42:25 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:48 Xach: i can move it to github, someone sent a patch and the bknr subversion is off. 20:42:59 Xach: i'll let you know the new location tomorrow. 20:43:01 bobbysmith007: The part I really enjoy lately is the almost painless way to work with *d-p-d* and posix cwd in sync, and painless temporary directories in which I can scribble haphazardly without worrying about cleanup. kind of like stack-allocated files. 20:43:58 using lisp when it's easy and unix commands when it's easy 20:44:21 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:29 *Xach* wonders about github api library for CL 20:44:58 Xach: i have this cl-github-v3 which works, but is not complete. 20:45:01 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 20:45:30 Xach: well, http://developer.github.com/v3/repos/downloads/ (: 20:45:31 Xach: https://github.com/hanshuebner/cl-github-v3/blob/master/github.lisp 20:45:43 ooh 20:45:46 nice, H4ns (: 20:46:19 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-48.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:47:35 H4ns: cffi's release.sh script might be useful too. 20:48:07 luis: thanks! will look at that as well. 20:50:03 Xach: the temporary directory stuff in commando sounds highly excellent! 20:50:14 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 20:51:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:51:48 Xach: do you have a defsystem-lint that complains of missing metadata? 20:51:54 nikodemus: not yet. 20:52:04 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:52:15 nikodemus: i did compile a list of all systems missing :documentation and put it in a shared google doc to work on 20:52:30 i think H4ns has been harassed with several requests as a result 20:52:59 benny [~benny@i577A2CD2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:02 Xach: i've just added :description, was that enough? 20:53:21 Xach: btw, I think the in-temporary-directory would be even nicer if the template was optional (: 20:53:37 antifuchs: yes. i guess that could default to /tmp/commando/ or something. 20:53:44 *Xach* will rejigger 20:54:04 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770C4D.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:54:14 something like *temporary-directory-defaults* (-; 20:54:25 *Xach* is glad he mentioned it, so many good ideas 20:54:42 H4ns: yes 20:55:00 ASDF supports adding arbitrary properties to systems, but the syntax is somewhat grotesque. 20:55:23 It would be interesting to have "mailing-list", "bug-reports", "website", etc. 20:56:04 Xach: starts to sound like cl-user.net? 20:56:22 ehu: Hmm, I don't really see how. 20:56:38 Oh, sorry. I misread as clnet. 20:56:47 well, it has mailing-list, website and maybe bug-reports. 20:56:59 ehu: Yes, something like that, though provided by system authors rather than an energetic website editor. 20:58:11 erm 20:58:14 *nikodemus* wants (send-bugreport ) that fires up my mailclient, and (send-patch ) that takes a diff and does the same 20:58:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:52 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: time to go..] 20:59:44 -!- wbooze [~wbooze@xdsl-78-35-130-8.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:59:58 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:02:10 Karl_H [~Karl_H@g228231105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:02:42 I guess the awful syntax can be avoided somewhat 21:02:46 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 21:02:46 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 21:02:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:05:24 Actually, I was thinking about a library for that kind of thing, a la emacs browse-url 21:05:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@155.99.117.91.static.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:06:07 The fact that you have to load a library to configure it, even if you don't know if you'll actually use it during a given session, is sometimes perplexing to me. 21:06:18 I wish there was an obvious way to speculatively configure . 21:06:33 *Xach* wonders about lazy-loaded configuration 21:08:58 The browse-url thing might be useful for something like manifest or cl-twitter, which requires going to an URL to auth. 21:09:51 anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770EBE.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:11:02 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-234-104.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:11:05 s0ber_ [~s0ber@114-36-234-198.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:11:17 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:12:24 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.87.217] has joined #lisp 21:12:32 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:12:56 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:46 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 21:14:20 silenius [~silenius@i59F75217.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 21:16:00 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:39 kelevra [~kelevra@rrcs-24-123-150-82.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:17:31 on the mac, it's easy 21:17:39 just (run "open ") (-: 21:17:49 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:50 how is fluid is the developement process on a mac? 21:19:08 i imagine it wouldn't be much different than on a normal pc is it not? 21:19:25 petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc1-midd16-2-0-cust160.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 21:19:50 it's not much different 21:19:53 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:26 why would that matter at all? 21:20:28 same emacs config, same lisps (mostly), same terminal (: 21:21:23 I didn't think it would, I've been put off of Macs by so many in the linux community, but everytime i've gotten to use one it has always been a pleasant experience 21:21:43 antifuchs: right. and if gnome-open exists, try that, or if whatever kde uses is available, etc, and default to printing "Hey, go here: " 21:21:43 i mean, its not like i couldn't have a Mac AND my pcs :) 21:22:24 -!- akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.50.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:22:49 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770EBE.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:54 -!- kelevra [~kelevra@rrcs-24-123-150-82.central.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 21:24:02 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:24:03 am i the only one who's bugged when people refer to non-apple computers as pcs? macs are pcs too -- apple has never made any microcomputers that i'm aware of, let alone big iron 21:24:21 *nikodemus* is a pedant 21:24:41 I am only annoyed when people call Common Lisp "clisp" 21:24:43 nikodemus: they made their post-pc bed, now they can lay in it (: 21:24:57 I have a pretty serious encoding problem with SLIME, it seems to try to read everything in ASCII (:EXTERNAL-FORMAT :ASCII), although I use :coding-system utf-8-unix 21:25:18 nowhere_man: did you start sbcl with a utf-8 locale? 21:25:46 I have (sbcl ("sbcl") :init swank-load/start :coding-system utf-8-unix) in my slime-lisp-implementations 21:26:07 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 21:26:34 nowhere_man: and how do you start slime? using C-u - M-x slime sbcl? 21:26:52 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:27:06 just M-x slime 21:27:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:27:33 I also have (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) for good measure 21:27:43 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:28:42 nikodemus: C-u - M-x slime sbcl leads to the exact same behaviour 21:29:24 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:222:41ff:fe23:8d8e] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:48 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 21:31:11 nowhere_man: what platform are you on? What does it say if you enter sb-impl::*default-external-format* on the REPL in emacs? 21:32:39 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:32:47 antifuchs: I updated my slime/swank to Debian's latest and retried, and everything worked 21:33:25 saurium [~saurium@bl14-99-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:33:28 in any other circumstance, I would gladly investigate, but I have a coding night competition tomorrow, so I'll concentrate on my code for now... 21:33:44 -!- saurium [~saurium@bl14-99-62.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 21:34:00 -!- H4ns [5b3d5ac7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.90.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:34:04 HEI 21:34:06 Hi 21:34:20 im trying to install cl-ode but im getting errors 21:34:27 any idea what am i doing wrong? 21:34:28 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 21:34:30 this is what i get 21:34:32 http://pastebin.com/PTg5aC2x 21:35:35 topo__ [~topo@f053044181.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:35:43 -!- petercoulton [~petercoul@cpc1-midd16-2-0-cust160.11-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:14 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:25 looks like your sbcl instance doesn't have permission to write to /usr/local/bin. I couldn't tell you if it's safe to run asdf-install in a sudo'd sbcl though 21:39:25 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-48.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 21:39:38 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-48.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Client Quit] 21:39:55 kidfoo [~neena@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 21:39:56 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F75217.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:40:00 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 21:40:37 do i need to be root for installing? 21:40:40 topo__: I was hoping cl-ode is in quicklisp, but it doesn't seem to be so 21:40:49 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:44:20 -!- EarlGray^^ [~dalet@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:31 EarlGray^^ [~dalet@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:41 -!- EarlGray^^ is now known as EarlGray^ 21:45:13 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:45:28 superflit [~superflit@71-33-155-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:36 cffi's handling of bitfields for frontend work is nice, but testing/combining bitmasks is inefficient ;/ 21:49:53 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:49:54 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:37 -!- rtoyg [chatzilla@nat/google/x-wlptnuyfcsgosbox] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:50:44 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:50:53 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 21:50:55 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:52:32 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 21:52:43 oGMo: efficiency is only a couple of compiler macros away! :) 21:53:25 oGMo: feel like writing some? 21:53:46 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:51 luis: true, i could make a custom bitfield type 21:54:30 oGMo: I was thinking you could add compiler macros to CFFI's bitfield operators, actually. 21:54:37 oGMo: and send us patches. ;-) 21:55:23 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:221:e9ff:fedb:eda6] has joined #lisp 21:55:43 luis: hrm .. not sure how simple it is to break into the foreign converters in this case .. looking at the code now 21:55:53 luis: what did you envision? 21:57:10 if it's like other types, i'd think access to the structure field will cause it to convert the number to the list of symbols .. hmm 21:58:12 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:221:e9ff:fedb:eda6] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:58:54 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:59:06 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 21:59:38 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 22:00:23 gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:221:e9ff:fedb:eda6] has joined #lisp 22:00:50 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 22:01:06 oGMo: ah, are you using a bitfield type in a defcfun argument? 22:01:36 mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:01:36 -!- mathrick_ [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Client Quit] 22:01:54 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:02:37 -!- gniourf_gniourf [~Gniourf@2a01:e35:2433:3b90:221:e9ff:fedb:eda6] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:03:04 luis: well, in this case a defcstruct member 22:03:42 ok, so in that case you're using mem-ref to populate it right? 22:04:04 er, and a defcfun i suppose .. in this case i need to test and modify some masks .. lots of consing or linear searching ;/ 22:04:18 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:05:06 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:05:17 oGMo: at the very end of cffi/src/enums.lisp there's a pair of translate-{to,from}-foreign methods. You want to define equivalent expand-{to,from}-foreign that perform the conversion at macroexpansion-time when the bitmask is constant 22:05:30 luis: hrm if i can mem-ref the struct field as the appropriate int type, that'd work 22:06:19 -!- kilon [~kilon@athedsl-400719.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:07:03 oGMo: for DEFCFUN, it's harder. We'd have to make DEFCFUN expand into a compiler-macro (which would be neat). 22:07:13 luis: ah sure .. it appears translate-to-foreign already handles any integer you give it .. 22:08:12 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-gxgtpdebemcazhmc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:21 oGMo: yeah, you can skip the whole thing and pass it an integer. 22:08:24 luis: that'd be neat but more than necessary at this point afaict 22:08:47 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:08:54 mostly just accessing it as an integer and doing a logtest etc 22:09:36 oGMo: in CFFI or in your application? 22:10:26 well, in my app, which seems possible already 22:10:33 meh, sure, be pragmatic and productive, if that's what you want. :) 22:11:35 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:11:39 luis: well, at a glance, i'm not sure why the expand- versions for foreign-bitfield wouldn't be essentially identical to the translate- method 22:12:14 oGMo: they would be identical, but they could perform the conversion at macroexpansion-time if the bitfield symbols are constantp. 22:12:52 not integerp? lots of things are constantp .. 22:13:48 -!- Karl_H [~Karl_H@g228231105.adsl.alicedsl.de] has left #lisp 22:13:56 oGMo: right now you're doing something like (with-foreign-slots ... (setf some-slot '(:sym1 :sym2 :sym3))) right? 22:14:34 luis: well, (cons :some-flag other-flags) 22:14:45 oGMo: with proper expand-... methods that setf would expand to (setf some-slot ) 22:15:07 oGMo: ah, well, no luck there. 22:15:16 yeah that would be neat. 22:16:44 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 22:17:58 the former could possibly be useful for efficient testing against a list of constant flags 22:19:10 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-168-90.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:19:33 what did Xach do again ? even (require :clx) before any of asdf or quicklisp does not do anything now..... 22:19:39 oGMo: the most common use in my experience, however, is as a defcfun argument. In order to pick up constantness there, we'd need it to expand to a compiler macro. 22:20:07 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-168-90.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:19 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-168-90.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:27 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:58 akovalenko [~akovalenk@95.73.53.213] has joined #lisp 22:22:35 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:18 luis: will look into it, and some possible testing macros 22:23:36 homie: what did you expect to happen? 22:24:04 i'm not sure why foreign-bitfield-value is taking a long time .. parse-type maybe 22:24:14 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:24:53 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 22:25:03 Xach: is directed procrastination your blog, or is there another lisp-zach? 22:25:13 so many lisp xachs 22:25:15 zachs, even 22:25:16 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Client Quit] 22:25:21 and a lisp-axch :( 22:25:55 it tells me it can't require clx 22:26:43 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:27:15 Drakken [~dan@ppp-70-225-178-203.dsl.chmpil.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:58 Xach: figured it was someone else, but then i remembered that a stealth blog would be right in your modus operandi! (or even brucio's...) 22:30:19 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@188-67-8-52.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:31:04 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-203-98.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:14 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:32:15 I'm pulling a 7 bit "radix" out of an integer; am I missing an operator that would do this more directly? (ash (logand integer (ash 127 i)) (- i)) 22:32:22 er yeah heh, every parse-type for a foreign-bitfield does two make-hash-table :/ 22:33:06 -!- nonduality [~nondualit@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 22:33:44 oGMo: is parse-type being called at runtime? 22:33:54 that's unexpected 22:34:04 Vivitron: (ldb (byte 7 i) integer) 22:34:33 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.87.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:34:39 But any compiler worth its bits would generate the same code for both expressions. 22:34:46 luis: in foreign-bitfield-value 22:35:00 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 22:35:14 possibly/probably not a usual case 22:35:21 many thanks pjb, that is exactly what I was looking for 22:37:43 oGMo: oh, right. if that's /really/ and issue, a compiler macro there would help. 22:37:52 that's my answer for everything tonight. 22:37:58 hah 22:38:37 well, i'm thinking a macro or so for testing bitfields as well; compiler macro as appropriate 22:38:46 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:38:55 i'll look at it again tomorrow after i've had some sleep and fresh caffeine 22:39:50 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:31 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:43:28 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:51:44 nialo` [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:52:15 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:52:17 -!- backspac3 [~jt@S010600212f37ae27.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:43 backspac3 [~jt@S010600212f37ae27.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:04 OK, I just finally managed to import a package that exports symbols that conflict with COMMON-LISP in a sane way 22:55:55 (having first (:shadowing-import-from :CULPRIT #:variable #:reduce) and then (:use :CL :CULPRIT) 22:56:02 was that documented somewhere? 22:56:55 pnq [~nick@ACA21CD2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:57:10 chp [~user@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-03.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:57:53 nowhere_man: clhs defpackage 22:58:04 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@dyn-209-2-213-228.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: stickycake] 23:00:11 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:03 OK, I now have definite proof I'm stupid and don't RTFM correctly 23:02:05 resu [~resu@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 23:05:59 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:07:40 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 23:12:56 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.246.218.131] has joined #lisp 23:13:11 Mustansir [~Mustansir@64.125.182.144] has joined #lisp 23:13:55 nialo- [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:48 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:19:53 iwillig [~ivan@rrcs-24-103-24-136.nyc.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:20:27 -!- nialo- [nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:22:00 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBD72D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:21 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 23:24:10 mindCrime [~chatzilla@24.106.207.82] has joined #lisp 23:25:41 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:01 sevenless [~tom@137.205.55.74] has joined #lisp 23:26:23 Are keywords constant? What happens when we unintern them? Discuss. 23:26:33 Hi, on clisp, how can I get out of the command line going [8], [9] etc whenever I type something 23:27:40 -!- sevenless [~tom@137.205.55.74] has quit [Client Quit] 23:28:37 pkhuong: yes. They become homeless. What more do you want to know? 23:29:27 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:29:27 pjb: But do they preserve their constantness? 23:29:45 Sure. Why wouldn't they? 23:30:06 uninterning is only a symbol<->package thing. 23:30:17 constantness is a symbol<->value thing. 23:30:18 isn't the constantness a consequence of being a symbol? 23:30:23 * of being a keyword. 23:30:29 No, it's the consequence of being a keyword. 23:30:42 When it's no longer in the keyword package, is it still a constant? 23:30:48 No, it's the consequence of having been created as a keyword. 23:31:04 keywords are normal symbols. 23:31:13 hi 23:31:18 (defconstant x 'x) (unintern 'x) 23:31:18 pjb, gigamonkey: hi 23:31:23 Posterdati: hi! 23:32:39 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 23:35:48 pkhuong: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/11_abca.htm 23:36:18 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21CD2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:36:21 yes, sbcl's keywords aren't up to spec. 23:36:50 Notice that it's done by cl:intern 23:44:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:45:02 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:46:19 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:47:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:35 -!- EarlGray^ [~dalet@despairing-occident.volia.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:48:19 EarlGray^ [~dalet@despairing-occident.volia.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:55 pkhuong: some fun: (let ((s (make-symbol "S42"))) (setf (symbol-value s) 42) (import s "KEYWORD")) :s42 --> 42 23:52:19 -!- iwillig [~ivan@rrcs-24-103-24-136.nyc.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:52:21 pkhuong: in ccl, (unintern :k) is inoperative... 23:52:33 we're thinking of doing something like that. 23:52:44 -!- chp [~user@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-03.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:08 I'm not sure it's a good idea. Symbols have other properties, uninterning them can be useful. 23:53:37 signal a condition with bold red lettering 23:53:41 Of course, it would be bad style to unintern keywords, or fbind them, etc. But I'd still prefer to be able to unintern them. 23:54:37 Nothing in clhs indicates that unintern may signal such a condition. 23:55:55 *vsync* approves of unintern behaving according to spec 23:55:56 that's OK; nothing in clhs indicates that (+ 1 1) => 2 23:56:40 it's different. (unintern :s "KEYWORD") should work the same in all implementations. There's no reason to signal a condition. 23:57:12 There's verbiage in clhs about modifying the CL package. Not about the KEYWORD package. 23:57:30 there are reasons to signal conditions 23:57:31 So a condition or package lock for CL is ok, but not for KEYWORD. 23:58:06 I'll style-warn you to death if you prefer.