00:00:54 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:01:55 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 00:03:13 nowhere_man: "lambda calculus interpreter" seems like an eminently reasonable google search term 00:03:51 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:05:48 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:05:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:06:08 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 00:07:08 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 00:07:51 BrianRice: yeah, I was pretty sure that a few months ago I had done searches like "lambda calculus implementation" and found absolutely nothing but the first page of Google is ripe with available code... 00:08:04 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:08:08 "interpreter" is key, I think 00:08:27 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 00:13:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:41 -!- ruediger_ [~ruediger@93-82-9-79.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:19:04 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 00:20:25 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:36 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:23:47 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-230-13.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:23:47 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-230-13.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:23:47 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 00:25:21 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:25:27 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 00:26:08 knob [~knob@66.50.244.87] has joined #lisp 00:26:16 Good evening/morning everyone =) 00:28:00 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #lisp 00:28:03 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:26 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 00:33:15 waveman [~tim@124-170-16-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:39:00 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.19.179.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:39:13 marsell [~marsell@120.19.177.180] has joined #lisp 00:39:40 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:42:23 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 00:44:27 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.19.177.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:49:47 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:58 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.24] has joined #lisp 00:53:40 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 00:55:04 -!- rgrau [~user@159.Red-79-159-33.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:59 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0468.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:01:26 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:02:43 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 01:07:13 mcox [~user@124-171-215-103.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:08:17 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-55-18.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:19 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-53-209.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:10:28 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 01:10:31 Hi all, I have created a project for defining command line programs in Common Lisp. If you are interested, it is available here: git://github.com/markcox80/lisp-executable.git. It supports automatic generation of executables on SBCL, ECL, CCL, CLISP and CMUCL. 01:10:44 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-147-178.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:10:55 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:08 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:13:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:37 koi` [~user@h-205-141.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 01:13:58 -!- koi` [~user@h-205-141.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:13:59 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:15:00 Interesting 01:15:17 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-23-159.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:15:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:16:02 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 01:20:05 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:20:07 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has joined #lisp 01:21:50 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:22:12 mcox: Do you have any example Makefiles? 01:22:24 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:22:30 Xach: makefiles? 01:23:22 If you want to make an exectuable, do you always load that stuff and do it from the repl? 01:23:55 scombinator [~user@cs-gw-private.otago.ac.nz] has joined #lisp 01:25:44 The program you define must be in an ASDF system. You can then build the executable two ways. 01:25:51 First is: (lisp-executable:create-executable 'program-name "output-file" :asdf-system "asdf-system") 01:26:11 Second is: (asdf:oos 'lisp-executable:create-executables-op "asdf-system") 01:26:38 An example of a program definition is here: https://github.com/markcox80/lisp-executable/blob/master/example/main.lisp 01:26:50 What do you use lisp-executable for? 01:27:14 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:37 I work with people that don't know anything about Lisp. So I build command line programs for these people. 01:27:42 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:28:35 How do you build them? Start repl, evaluate one of the two forms you mentioned? 01:28:42 Stick them in a file you load? 01:29:07 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:29:48 So if you check out the code, there is an example. Basically you do: 01:29:56 1. (asdf:load-system "lisp-excecutable-example") 01:30:04 jI am aski 01:30:08 I am asking what *you* do. 01:31:04 Yeah, that is all I do to build them. 01:33:30 mcox: how's the entry point determined? 01:34:25 By the program name you give to CREATE-EXECUTABLE. 01:35:18 that must designate a function? 01:35:19 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-178-58.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:19 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-178-58.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:35:19 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:35:37 yes it does. 01:35:52 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:36:49 Can anyone give a *formal definition* of lisp system? 01:37:09 like implementation, not asdf system. 01:37:11 mcox: so how does the ASDF operator work? 01:37:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:38:08 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 01:38:20 Ralith: Basically it calls CREATE-EXECUTABLE with the program name and the ASDF-SYSTEM in which the program exists. 01:38:58 Ralith: CREATE-EXECUTABLE then creates an external lisp machine, tells out it up to load the ASDF system, then dumps an executable image. 01:39:23 Ralith: Sorry, tells it how to load the ASDF system, then dumps an executable image. 01:39:23 mcox: What lisp do you use most of the time? 01:39:29 mcox: I mean, where does the ASDF operator get the program name? 01:40:39 Ralith: There is a initarg to the ASDF component LISP-EXECUTABLE:EXECUTABLE called :PROGRAM which is a list ("PACKAGE-NAME" "NAME-OF-PROGRAM"). 01:41:02 Ralith: It can't be a symbol, because the program doesn't exist at the time of reading the ASDF system. 01:41:15 Xach: I use SBCL most of the time. Why do you ask? 01:41:37 ah. 01:41:50 mcox: I wrote something along the same lines as your program, but in slightly different directions. And it only works for sbcl. 01:42:00 http://xach.com/lisp/buildapp is it. 01:42:51 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:42:58 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:43:53 it doesn't do any command-line handling, or debugger management. 01:44:00 -!- zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:44:13 Xach: Oh cool. 01:44:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:44:39 Xach: Oh ok. That was my primary motivation for the project. The automatic creation of executables was secondary. 01:44:57 Xach: It appears my googling isn't up to scratch. I wasn't aware of the command line arguments project. :) 01:45:29 there are i think 4 or 5 command-line handling libraries, but none of them seems to be the default best choice as far as i can tell 01:50:04 -!- rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:12 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:51:43 rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 01:55:40 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:56:23 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-178-004-067-203.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:57:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:57:37 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 01:58:39 rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has joined #lisp 02:00:34 Oddity [~Oddity@207.216.54.189] has joined #lisp 02:00:34 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@207.216.54.189] has quit [Changing host] 02:00:34 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 02:02:54 hermit [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 02:02:56 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D6C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:04:42 Enjoy your day everyone. If you have any questions, please send me an email. 02:06:22 *Xach* creates http://planet.lisp.org/github.atom 02:07:47 -!- mcox [~user@124-171-215-103.dyn.iinet.net.au] has left #lisp 02:09:21 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has joined #lisp 02:13:50 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:13:52 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:13:59 italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-202-204.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:16:07 is there a preferred lib for matrix operations? i've found a few but i can't tell if they are active 02:16:30 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 02:18:17 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 02:18:29 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:19:02 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:24:42 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA12DC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:25:07 *Xach* wishes he knew 02:25:54 hmm 02:26:06 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 02:26:44 there's lla which is newer but throws errors 02:26:57 then lisplab, matlisp, gsll 02:27:05 If it's a long running project, I'd look to see if BLASPAC or whatever they call it can be FFI'd 02:27:14 I like matlisp for the convenience, and have used both blapack and fsll before. 02:27:16 GSLL seems recent, and quicklisp-able 02:27:25 *gsll even. 02:27:59 They all end up calling into the BLAS and LAPACK anyway. 02:28:02 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:28:13 matlisp is appealing to me, but it looked kinda weird 02:28:25 Maths is all fortran eventually 02:28:47 id just prefer to use cl arrays when i can 02:29:30 sb-cga is nice if you only need computer graphics style matrix stuff 02:29:37 What are you trying to do, italic? 02:30:36 im following the ml-class videos and want to play with it in lisp. they use octave which is like matlab 02:31:33 matlisp is probably closest, then. 02:31:42 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 02:32:24 i'll prob use that, too bad its not in quicklisp 02:33:49 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:49 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.227.217.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:36:14 is matlisp asdf-loadable? 02:37:51 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A5EF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:32 Xach: sort of. There's an autotools script, and the asdf doesn't always work for re loading. 02:38:51 Xach: there's no mention of asdf in the INSTALL, thats why i thought it was an outdated lib 02:39:19 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:56 italic: The existence of matlisp.asd didn't convince you otherwise? 02:41:47 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:43:32 pkhuong: so it is. but the intro docs didn't give me any warm fuzzy feelings 02:43:42 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: spacemanaki] 02:45:09 ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 02:49:37 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:50:40 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:53:15 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:54:15 oudeis [~oudeis@109.64.217.196] has joined #lisp 02:57:26 sylecn [~sylecn@180.120.22.14] has joined #lisp 02:58:00 hmm 02:58:09 seemed to load ok 02:58:35 gko [~gko@42-72-158-91.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:17 -!- syrinx_ is now known as petessake 03:02:21 *Xach* suspects system shenanegins 03:03:11 -!- petessake is now known as syrinx_ 03:09:19 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 03:10:01 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 03:10:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:10:59 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:23 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:11:49 spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:03 -!- spacemanaki [~spacemana@cpe-74-66-71-20.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:12:40 -!- madnificent 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realitygrill] 08:43:33 twist_ [~twist@193.93.185.206] has joined #lisp 08:47:40 oudeis [~oudeis@62.219.152.214] has joined #lisp 08:50:53 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:51:25 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53:28 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 08:54:21 lmatteis [u3300@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-fdvblslzstsysszc] has joined #lisp 08:54:34 what's a good dialect of lisp targeted for web development? 08:55:17 or maybe lisp itself 08:55:24 not sure, wanting to get my hands wet with it 08:55:31 lmatteis: this channel is dedicated for common lisp. 08:55:53 ok 08:55:57 Lots of people here use it for web development. 08:56:31 -!- H4ns [57a9eefa@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.238.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:57:20 what's a good common lisp book? 08:57:32 maybe targeted for web development 08:57:53 I like Practical Common Lisp, if you have previous programming experience. 08:58:31 if not try Land of Lisp which features "web based" games (they use the browser as UI) 08:59:58 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:00:30 out of curiosity... what's the single most important feature of the language that made you want the use the language in the first place, other than personal preference 09:01:30 multi-paradigms 09:02:50 C-Keen: any practical examples? i come from a C/C++ world 09:04:04 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 09:04:04 lmatteis: practical common lisp is full of practical examples. 09:04:22 i mean about multi-paradigms 09:05:08 lmatteis: CLOS, functional styles, metaprogramming... 09:06:04 and let's not forget interactive development in general and SLIME in particular 09:06:50 lmatteis: I can use generic functions and pass them to higher order functions (functors) to generate code that compiles to tight SSE loops. 09:07:00 ... at runtime. 09:08:15 pkhuong: wait, generic dispatch can be optimized away? under what circumstances? 09:09:36 -!- wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:00 wol_ [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 09:10:30 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:10:55 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 09:11:19 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 09:12:07 Ralith: "it can", but that's not what I'm referring to. 09:12:19 elaborate? 09:13:00 I guess it's just a question of a few type definitions, right? 09:13:26 Ralith: the code generator can exploit CLOS. I also have a patch around that compiles standard generic functions to a static dispatch tree... problem is, that's not viable in the general case in CLOS, even with sealing. 09:13:51 cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.60.2] has joined #lisp 09:13:56 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:14:19 is there any reason codegen might *not* be able to exploit CLOS? 09:14:29 I mean, that seems strangely specific 09:14:39 Ralith: it's a practical example. 09:14:50 fair enough 09:15:05 sealing => informing the impl that you don't intend to modify the dispatch any further? 09:15:40 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:15:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:16:06 lmatteis: what I actually exploit the most is interactive development and compilation. I can have decent performance (important if I don't want to spend half my day waiting for results), with a nice interactive debugging/introspection environment when things fail, and resume processing with hotpatched code. 09:16:22 Ralith: the dispatch and/or the class hierarchy. 09:17:28 pkhuong: what are the circumstances in which that information is insufficient to safely optimize? 09:17:35 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:17:52 it's not an issue of safety, but of exponential blow ups. 09:18:09 oh? 09:18:21 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:18:36 -!- waveman [~tim@124-170-16-47.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:18:41 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 09:19:28 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 09:19:38 also, it's nice to write code while constantly compiling the file, without worrying that this huge program you just wrote might not run 09:20:02 i need to read an effective book that will make me use some lisp 09:20:10 i find it mostly interesting to learn 09:20:19 but not practical for big real world apps :/ 09:20:23 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 09:20:46 the way dispatch works, we have to compute a full sorted list of applicable methods. Unless sealed classes can't be inherited from, there are, in the wild, code baes for which we have to dispatch for almost all the permutations of the powerset of existing methods. 09:20:49 lmatteis: tried Practical Common Lisp 09:20:59 that's already been recommended to him 09:20:59 H4ns [55b2bb58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.178.187.88] has joined #lisp 09:21:12 pkhuong: oh dear. 09:21:19 lmatteis: why do you not find it practical for big applications? 09:21:29 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:21:37 sorry, that was a bad statement, i never used lisp 09:21:45 it's just what i see from real world apps 09:21:56 and general discussions :) 09:22:01 with other fellow developers 09:22:18 in other words, it has bad reputation 09:22:20 lmatteis: fellow developers with plenty of experience coding in lisp. 09:22:29 lmatteis: don't worry, so does C++. 09:22:40 one of these reputations is deserved :D 09:22:45 Ralith: which is why PCL (the CLOS implementation) generates those at runtime, and sticks them in bounded-size caches. 09:27:43 Ralith: we could probably do something given a promise that methods and classes are fully frozen... kind of like what ITA does before delivery, except smarter. 09:28:00 it would certainly be a neat feature to have 09:29:39 -!- Nosceteipsum [~bagdemir@62.104.226.37] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:29:39 i just want a language with less features as possible 09:29:54 lmatteis: then common lisp isn't for you. 09:30:02 scheme might be 09:30:28 muep: no one codes in scheme. We code for implementations that extend scheme with features. 09:31:36 lmatteis: I'd recommend assembly, if you want to avoid features. 09:31:42 haha 09:31:59 unfortunately, avoiding features tends to not be practical for big real world apps. 09:32:28 actually, i want it with very little features, but it has to have some pseudocode sort of syntax to allow me to maintain it 09:32:31 Ralith: All the assembly languages I know are full of features. 09:32:50 pkhuong: hm. Perhaps machine code, then? 09:32:56 x86 is pretty feature-heavy, though... 09:33:14 Ralith: do you know the story of mel? even machine-code has nice features? 09:33:16 lmatteis: try Forth, you can hardly get less features than that 09:33:28 flip214: a classic 09:33:48 fe[nl]ix: not entirely true ... better macro support than C 09:33:57 a modern intel CPU has far more, though. 09:34:25 fe[nl]ix: which forth? ;) 09:35:35 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:36:16 lmatteis: in more seriousness, your requirements are ill-specified and suggest a degree of confusion about what you really want. 09:37:09 I think you might do well to read the book that your questions have twice been answered with. 09:37:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:39:33 in leiu of that, what makes you think that lacking features is desirable? 09:39:45 what does the word "feature" mean to you? 09:41:18 well, for example i use javascript (don't laugh). it has simple data structures, pretty much objects and arrays. that's about it. this lets me kind of layout and manipulate data the way i'd like 09:41:33 in very easy fashion, with very little boiler plate syntax 09:41:50 it's actually very much like a JSON data-structure. 09:42:17 javascript object notation is very much like a javascript object notation data structure? 09:42:44 it's similar 09:42:45 potatoes taste very much like potatoe chips! 09:43:08 in javascript data structure it's a bit different. like you can have functions as members of a data structure 09:43:36 lmatteis: seriously, you're in the wrong channel. this channel is about common lisp, and common lisp is a huge language. 09:43:37 Lisps have syntax for literal objects, lists and arrays, and you can extend it (but, curiously enough, people tend to stop wanting to do that once they know enough to do it). 09:44:44 ok 09:46:39 pkhuong: it's just because the build infrastructure doesn't support the composition of read macros very well 09:48:06 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:48:14 -!- H4ns [55b2bb58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.178.187.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:48:51 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:51:19 lmatteis: well, you can always use a subset of Common Lisp. 09:52:13 lmatteis: you seem to be confusing "boilerplate" and "features" 09:52:31 in fact, the correct features cause boilerplate to cease to exist almost entirely. 09:52:42 (defpackage "MY-SMALL-FEATURED-LANGUAGE" (:use "CL") (:export "LAMBDA" "FUNCALL")) (defpackage "MY-PGM" (:use "MY-SMALL-FEATURED-LANGUAGE")) (in-package "MY-PGM") (lambda (x) (funcall x (lambda (y) y))) 09:53:50 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62.219.152.214] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:54:18 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-uaysqluzowgoyrpx] has joined #lisp 09:54:22 i dunno 09:54:32 Then go learn. Read PCL 09:54:43 i come to realize that the most important job that a programming language does is manipulating data 09:55:06 All data can be reduced to lambda (anonymouse functions). 09:55:08 on websites, we get data from a database, manipulate it and show it 09:56:01 so if we could limit ourselves to create a language that would allow us to manipulate data in the easiest way as possible, without extra boilerplate 09:56:04 would be interesting 09:56:18 i am just talking out loud 09:56:21 Then go learn Common Lisp. Read PCL. 09:56:28 probably forgetting about a huge number of contraints 09:56:36 H4ns [55b2bb58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.178.187.88] has joined #lisp 09:57:52 -!- gko [~gko@42.72.158.91] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:00:03 cyrillos__ [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 10:02:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:03:41 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.60.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:03:42 -!- H4ns [55b2bb58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.178.187.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 10:05:41 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AFA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:44 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A068.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.10.198] has joined #lisp 10:08:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.10.198] has quit [Changing host] 10:08:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:08:57 ramusara 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[~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:29:54 maxm----- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 14:34:34 clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:03 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-147-16.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:21 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:37:36 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:13 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 14:40:27 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 14:40:49 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 14:42:06 I was reviewing a colleague's code that writes a lisp-like DSL using m4. Didn't like it (of course), because it had to rely on string manipulation. BUT it COULD emit *commented* code. What do people think of this trade-off? 14:43:09 rpg: when i write something that eg emits asm as .s files, i like to emit it with comments too 14:43:30 makes debugging emitted code a lot easier 14:43:53 nikodemus: right. But my s-expression based rewriting typically returns (rather than writes) code, so comments are not available to me... 14:44:39 I suppose one could write code that is based on writing, that would contain s-expression operations *and* comment-writing. 14:44:44 rpg: do you need to return lisp reader comments? 14:45:12 rpg: i mean, you could emit the comments in (comment ...) forms 14:45:33 rpg: i don't miss it in lisp, though 14:45:44 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:45:49 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:45:50 H4ns: right, but the DSL cannot parse those.... I would have to introduce an intermediate stage in writing. Not impossible, though... 14:46:01 step-by-step macroexpansion and penchant for expressive names tend to be enough 14:46:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:46:26 (defmacro comment (comment) (declare (ignore comment))) 14:46:29 rpg: can't you make the dsl parse those? 14:46:31 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 14:46:33 right 14:46:42 -!- gz` [~gz@209-6-49-85.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 14:47:34 H4ns: No, it's not my DSL. For those who are interested, it's PDDL: http://users.cecs.anu.edu.au/~patrik/pddlman/writing.html 14:48:42 -!- H4ns [55b2bb58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.178.187.88] has left #lisp 14:48:49 H4ns [55b2bb58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.178.187.88] has joined #lisp 14:48:52 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 14:49:00 In many ways it's a very primitive language, so it tends to be bloated, and the intention behind various forms often counterintuitive. 14:49:12 It was written to be an interchange format, not an authoring format.... 14:50:16 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-147-16.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:50:53 -!- clop [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:51:46 rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has joined #lisp 14:53:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:19 i'd use a serializer other than the lisp printer. 14:53:28 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:53:45 in that serializer, i'd convert the comment forms to the right extenal comment format. 14:54:44 devantas [~sfkjfsdhj@bl5-29-237.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:54:52 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 14:56:15 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:57:13 is there a nice lisp interactive tutorial? 14:57:47 also, does lisp come installed on mac os x? 14:58:02 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:58:49 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:04 lmatteis: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=lisp+os+x 14:59:09 H4ns: That's a good point --- actually I already *have* a special pretty-print dispatch table, since this language does not permit printing () as NIL.... 14:59:10 rpg: or you can use the standard printer and a modified reader 14:59:12 thanks :) 14:59:27 jdz: but i should use common lisp, right? 14:59:39 lmatteis: i haven't seen an interactive tutorial. lisp does not come installed on mac os x. 14:59:40 -!- devantas [~sfkjfsdhj@bl5-29-237.dsl.telepac.pt] has left #lisp 14:59:42 lmatteis: that's what people in this channel use 14:59:52 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:00:01 an interactive tutorial? An interesting idea 15:00:19 fe[nl]ix: the language doesn't primarily get processed by CL, so I need to push it into a conforming file. But the pretty-printer is there for me... 15:00:50 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gxzboqfzhfgzcxcb] has joined #lisp 15:01:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:02:27 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-4-83.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 jee, i cant find a common lisp interpreter for osx 15:02:37 is scheme fine? :) 15:02:54 lmatteis: www.sbcl.org has one. 15:03:01 lmatteis: ccl.clozure.com too 15:03:04 lmatteis: is it because all modern common lisp implementations are actually compilers? 15:03:15 lmatteis: Scheme is fine for #scheme 15:03:34 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:03:45 G'morning all. 15:03:46 jee but what's the difference 15:03:49 hi nyef 15:03:49 what's the standard? 15:04:03 lmatteis: They are different languages. 15:04:20 lmatteis: people here use common lisp, people over at #scheme use scheme 15:04:23 which one is lisp? 15:04:28 both are lisps 15:04:44 fun! 15:04:58 lmatteis: use clozure: http://ccl.clozure.com/ 15:05:00 lmatteis: lisp is a family of languages 15:05:06 lmatteis: lisp is not "one language", it is a language family. maybe you want to read some information about lisp first? 15:05:13 a bitter, dysfunctional, angry family :D 15:05:13 so it's like a category? 15:05:29 ok great 15:05:36 what does it take to be in this family? 15:05:40 you gotta have parens? 15:05:41 :D 15:05:50 lmatteis: easy manipulation of code as data 15:05:54 lmatteis: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISP read this from the beginning to the end, then come back. 15:06:11 the parens tend to be the nicest way discovered to do so 15:06:14 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-103-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:06:41 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:07:28 clozure -> 150mb installer :| 15:09:37 quite a bit smaller than xcode 15:09:54 so is there a version of lisp that doesn't require the parenthesis? 15:10:01 *lmatteis* not trolling, really 15:10:44 lmatteis: what features would such a thing posess, in your opinion? 15:11:03 Dylan was basically a lisp with Algol-like syntax 15:11:08 lmatteis: there's been some experiments with it 15:11:13 damn, it's possess 15:11:22 And a very fancy macro system 15:11:34 jdz: not sure, each line would represent an expression, or whatever's inside parenthesis is called 15:11:40 Dylan HAD the parens at one point. I've still got a manual from that era. 15:11:41 billstclair: what do you mean by "was"? 15:11:54 Well, it's being kept alive 15:12:00 But isn't very well known 15:12:05 I remember the parens 15:12:08 Worked for me 15:12:31 lmatteis: many see the parenthesis as a feature rather than a problem. why are you interested in a lisp without parentheses? 15:12:41 But when the parens went away, it was still much nicer than I, a lisp weenie for many years before then, imagined it would be 15:12:45 H4ns: curiosity 15:13:36 lmatteis: that's a phase that about 50% of lisp newbies go through. it'll pass. either you decide parens are fine, or you decide lisp isn't for you 15:17:13 right 15:17:38 http://users.rcn.com/david-moon/PLOT/ 15:17:53 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 15:18:09 Moon said at ILC 2009 that he had an experimental implementation, but I haven't seen it anywhere 15:18:18 "Programming Language for Old Timers" 15:18:30 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:19:25 snoopy [~snoopy@dyndsl-085-016-062-129.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:03 ... hey, this looks like TUNES, doesn't it? 15:21:25 i am currently forced to programm in java and it is far worse when it comes to parentheses, lisp is nice an regular but in java you have () and {} and [] and all the stuff all over the place for different stuff, oh and not to forget the ';' to end a line 15:21:34 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:21:42 I vaguely remember his response to someone who said if it would be released sometime soon: "It's not even good enough to suck. It would take someone 30 years younger to work on it." 15:21:58 people who complain about parens in lisp just lack a good editor 15:22:14 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-66-200.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:22:46 that apple lisp lacked parentheses, didn't it? 15:22:48 Dylan 15:23:17 Yes. That's what we were just saying. 15:23:18 urandom__: the nice thing about Lisp's syntax is not that it uses few {}s and []s, it's that code is data. See Clojure, for instance. :-) 15:23:25 rsynnott: No, it didn't. Then they got rid of them for some reason. 15:25:14 nyef: popularity 15:25:21 ... then it backfired, afaik 15:26:02 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:26:04 Well, the Apple lab was closed because Sculley and his successor were trying to keep Apple afloat by focusing on market share instead of profitability 15:26:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:26:40 Harlequin kept it going for a few years after that 15:27:11 And CMU's Gwydion 15:28:27 And it appears that Open Dylan is still active: https://github.com/dylan-lang/opendylan 15:29:44 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 15:30:54 would have been rather weird if they'd kept with it 15:31:49 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:32:38 it beats objective-C 15:32:38 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:32:39 lmatteis: http://art2.ph-freiburg.de/Lisp-Course is an interactive lisp tutorial that introduces the basics, syntax, list handling, recursion. 15:32:47 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 15:32:58 luis: i was just saying that lisp has no problem with parens 15:33:08 dlowe_lt; that's for sure, said that guy who's been writing Obj C for iPhone for the past few weeks 15:33:40 billstclair: i bet you have a totally unbiased view of dylan, too :) 15:33:46 heh. 15:33:54 billstclair: maybe if they'd called it Dylan-C it would have gotten more acceptance 15:34:19 As a member of the Apple Lab that designed Dylan and wrote an implementation (in Macintosh Common Lisp), I'm not exactly unbiased. 15:34:31 or "TurboJava++" 15:34:42 Java was a pup at the time 15:35:29 I actually wrote very little Dylan code. I wrote the database code for the compiler in MCL 15:36:30 Probably the most important thing our lab did, in 20/20 hindsight, was convince Apple to put the Arm instead of the AT&T Crisp into the Newton 15:37:37 There was a group in CA that wrote the Newton code in Dylan. It was faster than what Apple shipped, but they didn't use it 15:37:57 there's an interview with mikel evins on the topic 15:38:13 never even heard of that one 15:39:53 -!- snoopy [~snoopy@dyndsl-085-016-062-129.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:41:52 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:48:47 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:21 huh, I thought Apple did use it 15:54:26 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:59 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:58:23 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111116091359]] 16:00:02 -!- Phoodus [~foo@63-235-81-162.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:00:05 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:00:21 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-18-67-119.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:00:37 -!- samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:00:37 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-67-119.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.63.160] has joined #lisp 16:03:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:04:55 resu [~resu@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 16:11:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:13:11 samebchase [~samuel@76.73.121.203] has joined #lisp 16:15:21 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 16:15:33 Hello 16:15:45 -!- kami` is now known as kami 16:17:22 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 16:17:33 -!- pon1980 [~pon@195-67-88-105.customer.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:17:52 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 16:20:34 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:13 kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-5-223.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:22:39 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:23:25 whats up 16:23:27 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:58 resu: hacks & glory 16:24:36 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:40 mostly just hacks though 16:24:41 -!- udzinari [user@nat/ibm/x-sfmaudvfivftzrjf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:25:32 that and lots and lots of failed commented code 16:26:28 its funny cuase I always just comment out my mistakes then by time im done I have 50 lines of code and 200 lines of comments lol 16:27:10 learn to use version control 16:27:27 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-23-159.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:27:54 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:28:09 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:28:42 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ntmeekjtkpnuwkau] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:30:03 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:30:23 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-sbarieizgdhckikj] has joined #lisp 16:31:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.140.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:35 ehu [~ehuels@109.38.140.76] has joined #lisp 16:32:40 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:20 for mid/large projects that reasonable but when just fucking around that seems like over kill 16:33:42 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 16:33:47 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-sbarieizgdhckikj] has quit [Client Quit] 16:34:04 version control is never overkill 16:34:13 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:34:22 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-sreczuniysywrecb] has joined #lisp 16:34:32 plus the wall of ugly commented code serves as a goog reminder of the process you used to get there and how to improve that process 16:34:33 resu: in fact, you only just now described a great example of why it's necessary. 16:34:35 it helps your focus, it forces you to think in terms of chunks 16:35:51 Hmm well honestly I just havent really messed with it much.. maybe I should read git magic and see if it changes my workflow any... 16:36:25 I wonder why people that's not very familiar with DVCS systems, tend to go with git right away 16:36:26 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:36:26 magit-el is magic in emacs 16:36:36 hermit: if it's good enough for linus... 16:36:49 hermit: cause is the killer app 16:37:10 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:13 hermit: because it's well supported, stable, and easy to find documentation for 16:37:23 so is hg 16:37:34 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-xjdvcpzbpxaprnns] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:37:51 and it has much less funky stuff, it's cleaner overall 16:38:09 before git there were other systems that provided more or less the same functionality, but none became so spread as git, at least I don't recall things like gitorius, github, etc for mercurial for example 16:38:10 hermit: i know zero people who use hg, and but git is popular among my peers. 16:38:24 hermit: and github, of course. 16:38:38 H4ns: I use github from hg 16:38:41 *nyef* isn't a big fan of github, really. 16:38:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.140.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:38:51 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:39:03 Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #lisp 16:39:09 there's this hg-git plugin that does the magic 16:39:26 hermit: *shrug* 16:39:31 was an example, the focus was on the phenomenon 16:39:46 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-osqcegjphaczedvo] has joined #lisp 16:40:00 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:01 but you see, that's my point, people just go with git without even looking what's available. Just like people go with ruby or python without even looking at lisp 16:40:49 I've tried git and hg, and I strongly prefer hg 16:40:54 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:41:00 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:41:00 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 16:41:28 *eMBee* looked at lisp and rejected it 3 times before curiosity got the better of him 16:41:29 to be fair both ruby and python have larger communitys and more libs and are used more in the real world AND have more beginner friendly resources/docs 16:41:40 hermit: and I used to use mercurial before switching to git 16:41:56 fe[nl]ix: what made you click? 16:41:59 git is more or less in the same vote 16:42:23 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:42:26 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 16:42:38 though hg is alot cleaner but then so is darcs and that really hasnt been mentioned 16:43:35 *nyef* finds darcs to be a nightmare. 16:43:47 and also bzr, but I really don't care about either. Hg or Git, those are the big ones, like Vim or Emacs 16:43:48 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:43:52 there's gedit.... 16:43:59 Let us speak of Common Lisp. 16:44:03 hermit: I dislike condescending software 16:44:14 right. or i'll go on about how great clearcase is 16:44:26 Accurev, my friends. Accurev. 16:44:35 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@178-55-44-208.bb.dnainternet.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:44:41 it's all about visualsourcesafe 16:44:48 don't pretend otherwise 16:44:51 fe[nl]ix: you mean hg is condescending? Why do you say that? 16:45:21 is there any revision control system written in lisp? 16:45:25 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 16:45:39 *resu* also wonders this 16:45:43 eMBee: mcvs, IIRC 16:45:55 eMBee: there was a project called "Meta-CVS". It used CVS as the store, but added a complete layer on top of it. 16:46:11 Though, ARE there any good CL flamewars left? I never see any. 16:47:01 It's always something ancillary. 16:47:24 aha, thanks 16:47:25 Is there any large piece of software written in lisp ? 16:47:37 Pip: Yes. 16:47:42 I mean more than hundreds of thousands of lines of code 16:47:52 Pip: yes. 16:48:07 Hmmm um... how about updating the cl standard? that could produce and intersting flamewar I guess 16:48:34 resu: are you interested in flamewars? 16:48:52 clearcase *is* great, as long as you don't have to administer it 16:49:02 hermit: no but herbieB_ asked 16:49:18 Actually, is an update to the CL standard ever going to happen? 16:49:22 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:33 herbieB_: I wonder about that too 16:49:44 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gxzboqfzhfgzcxcb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:49 from today's perspective, no. 16:50:01 hermit: in all seriousness? We might get an addendum, but not an official ANSI track 16:50:11 Who decides that? 16:50:30 herbieB_: the people who have money to fund an ANSI standard track? 16:50:36 why not? its not like lisp is a dead language. 16:51:10 p_l: Sure, but I was more curious about the specifics. 16:51:35 also, we already have CDR documents, with some things retroactively put there (I think it has MOP, and possibly Gray Streams) 16:52:16 resu: there aren't enough companies willing to spend the necessary $//£ 10^6 16:53:05 herbieB_: If someone foots the bill, we can easily update the standard into CL2012, that has MOP, Gray Streams, etc. 16:53:21 there was also some movement for CLtL3 16:54:00 bill? how much does it cost to update a standard anyway? 16:54:06 p_l: Do you think that a full ANSI update is required to get everyone to make changes to their impls? 16:54:42 herbieB_: in order to get, say, franz or lispworks change their implementations to some new standard, there must be customers willing to fund it. 16:54:58 herbieB_: it is really a question of (lack of) commercial interest. 16:55:03 resu: horrifying amount of money 16:55:33 people is always too worried about backwards compatibility, even for small trivial stuff. Take for example the sign convention for electricity, it's backwards, and it was never fixed. Life-long backwards compatibility rougly means clinging to fuckups with no intent to ever fix them. Backwards compatibility is what ties everything to be shitty, even if smarter ways to do things have been found, and is what 16:55:33 ties everything to never evolve or be just right. 16:55:50 herbieB_: also, 99% of updates people can agree right now on would be inclusion of some stuff that is already de-facto standard, or extras that are available in implementations, or stuff from common libs 16:56:45 p_l: True, this is mainly about SDK and unifying the API for those things that most everyone uses. 16:57:01 Which would be kind of a callback to how CL started anyway 16:57:06 the standards track is there to push things that might not be doable by single lisper with ADD... 16:57:22 ... and CL makes most of the shit implementable 16:58:11 Peter's talk provides a lot of useful context for this kind of discussion. 16:58:57 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:18 Like: why there was a CL standard, who the stakeholders were, what the process was, what concerns and compromises were involved. 16:59:52 That sounds vaguely familiar, when was it? 17:00:04 Was Forth standard updated? 17:00:06 ILC 2010 17:00:17 http://s3.amazonaws.com/weekly-repl/weekly-repl_ep-1.mp3 17:00:45 Ah, I remember it now. 17:01:55 yay for direct links and wget 17:02:16 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:02:25 It wasn't always easy for Peter to deliver the talk because some of the stakeholders were in the room 17:05:51 He may have been worried about the pot boiling over, but in the end it was just a simmer. 17:06:21 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:06:54 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 17:09:39 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:10:41 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:13:41 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-osqcegjphaczedvo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:08 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-vkrfnysuxxkkxfpp] has joined #lisp 17:14:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 17:15:49 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:17:01 felideon: it seems like you are about to write a blog post 17:17:13 Lisp at MCNA: An Insider's Perspective 17:17:15 something like that? 17:17:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:17:54 *H4ns* chuckles 17:21:00 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:53 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483AFA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:23:15 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 17:25:28 -!- twem2_ [~tristan@puma-mxisp.mxtelecom.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:25:57 jasom [~aidenn@ip98-182-19-91.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:33 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 17:28:32 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:28:41 morning 17:29:17 morning 17:29:38 morning 17:29:44 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 17:29:49 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:07 -!- H4ns [55b2bb58@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.178.187.88] has quit [Quit: home] 17:32:50 exlog [~exlog@c-69-141-21-223.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:25 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.63.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:35:58 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:38:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:39:51 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: time to go..] 17:39:52 Yuuhi [benni@p5483AFA2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:33 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 17:43:44 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:20 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 17:47:41 H4ns [57bd7fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.127.163] has joined #lisp 17:49:26 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 17:49:59 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-cmvvvwuegwsuvidp] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:52:22 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F70693.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:52:24 resty_cam [~hbkbhkkh@223.255.224.25] has joined #lisp 17:53:05 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:55:57 -!- resty_cam [~hbkbhkkh@223.255.224.25] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:57:22 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-uaysqluzowgoyrpx] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:59:11 Xach: heh. 17:59:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:01:20 No? 18:02:13 Thank you for the topic suggestion, hopefully I'll write about it some day. 18:02:19 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:25 For now I guess my blog does not survive the Yearly Planet Lisp Purge 18:03:00 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:03:02 Is com.gigamonkeys.pathnames a package which is in widespread use or is cl-fad the name of Peter's pathnames library? 18:03:14 kami: neither 18:03:40 kami: cl-fad is an implementation of the ideas of the book by edi weitz 18:04:09 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:04:31 I'm looking at code which uses file-exists-p and list-directory. Which quicklisp installable package would contain these 2 functions? 18:04:47 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:02 ... cl-fad, maybe? 18:05:06 cl-fad contains both 18:05:19 I think I'll go with that. Thanks. 18:06:17 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:08:08 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:01 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:11:34 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has joined #lisp 18:12:52 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 18:16:22 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:19:47 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-21-84.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 18:20:58 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-ovckhtlstkmvdsur] has joined #lisp 18:22:32 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:25:11 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:25:30 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:35 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:39 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:40 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:04 -!- joooooo [setmeaway3@119.201.52.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29:30 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 18:29:34 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:32:02 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-133-62.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 18:36:03 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 18:38:03 what was the name of that lib that basicly added a CL version of readline to SBCL ? 18:38:21 resu: linedit 18:40:01 Xach: thank you 18:40:41 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:41:10 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:41:28 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:41:49 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:47:04 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-4-83.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:24 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 18:55:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:32 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 18:55:40 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 18:59:48 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:00:21 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-14-58.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:33 markskil1eck [~chris@host86-136-237-95.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:44 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 19:04:28 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:04:51 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:07:58 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 19:08:55 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:05 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 19:13:46 rgrau [~user@159.Red-79-159-33.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:53 H4ns_ [57bd7fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.127.163] has joined #lisp 19:16:01 -!- H4ns [57bd7fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.127.163] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:16:05 -!- H4ns_ is now known as H4ns 19:18:20 lompa [~lompa@80.174.184.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:22 -!- lompa [~lompa@80.174.184.192.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 19:22:08 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 19:22:42 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:23:43 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@dyn-160-39-133-62.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:08 udzinari` [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:27:27 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:28:37 Pip_ [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #lisp 19:28:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:36 -!- Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:29:42 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:29:46 -!- Pip_ is now known as Pip 19:29:53 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:31:37 dlowe_lt [~dlowe@74.125.59.116] has joined #lisp 19:31:44 sellout-1 [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:09 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7AAF.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:33:52 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:35:36 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 19:37:56 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-36-5-223.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:38:40 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:39:45 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:39:56 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-121.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:40:07 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-121.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:54 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-121.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:41:55 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-121.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:13 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-35.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:17 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-154-35.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:43:03 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:11 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 19:43:38 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-67-119.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:44:16 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:17 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:24 Xach: which values in an .asd file to Quicklisp need or make use of? 19:44:28 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-121.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:29 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-176-121.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:46 Right now, :depends-on 19:45:13 In the near future, :description. In the later future, everything: :author, :long-description, :license, perhaps more. 19:45:57 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 19:46:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:46:41 -!- Guest87499 is now known as `micro 19:46:43 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:46:53 In that future you should write a #'ql:lint for library authors. 19:47:41 Also, please write #'ql:dwim. k thx 19:48:06 gigamonkey: not a bad idea 19:48:22 "Dear author, you appear to have created a file named 'pkgdcl.lisp'. Why? For the love of god, why?" 19:48:32 Indeed. 19:48:42 Eheh. Tradition! 19:48:47 I also need to write #'manifest:lint 19:48:50 that is of course not in the realm of quicklisp 19:48:52 hm? so it'll be included before everything else? 19:48:58 *luis* eyes fe[nl]ix 19:49:26 what's the alternative? 19:49:32 dlowe_lt: package.lisp :) 19:49:38 lint seems like a very good thing to have (: 19:49:43 it is only ok if the project is Paul Khuong's General Definitions for CL 19:50:02 "Dear author, you seem to be writing a utility library." 19:50:22 dlowe_lt: I would prefer package.lisp or packages.lisp. 19:50:31 Xach: gocha 19:50:32 t 19:50:35 :p 19:50:57 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-sduntsheswewkqcm] has joined #lisp 19:51:48 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:52:19 dlowe_lt1 [~dlowe@74.125.59.113] has joined #lisp 19:54:23 Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-49-121.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:54:39 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 19:55:13 -!- `micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 19:55:27 `micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:52 -!- dlowe_lt [~dlowe@74.125.59.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:56:02 -!- `micro is now known as Guest7490 19:56:38 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:07 hmm 19:57:20 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 19:59:44 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:03 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:03:53 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:04:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-179-86.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:23 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-31-9.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:37 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:42 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:08:15 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 20:09:07 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.65] has joined #lisp 20:10:51 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:11:17 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:51 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-14-58.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:11:52 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-184-46.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:57 pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-248-216.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 20:12:57 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:29 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:10 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:16 -!- ruediger_ [~ruediger@93-82-0-92.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:18:26 -!- pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-248-216.csuohio.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:21:28 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 20:21:47 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:00 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:26 McRibbit [~user@zaza10.ida.liu.se] has joined #lisp 20:22:29 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:37 pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-246-254.csuohio.edu] has joined #lisp 20:26:42 -!- dlowe_lt1 [~dlowe@74.125.59.113] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:26:54 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 20:27:05 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:29:59 Xach: shouldn't that be pkgdcl.lsp ? 20:30:08 back from the days before computers had vowels 20:31:31 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-234-121.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:33:19 -!- pspace [~andrew@csu-137-148-246-254.csuohio.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:34:25 ruediger_ [~ruediger@93-82-2-64.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 20:35:13 t's nt lk vwls hv mch nfrmtn cntnt, nywy. 20:35:29 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 20:36:05 nyef: that's true of letters in english in general. 20:36:30 Yeah, that's true. 20:37:08 ... and now you've got me thinking about wireless network passwords, by way of XKCD. 20:37:21 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-195-206.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:24 translation: "it's not like vowels have much information content anyway" 20:37:32 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:38 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 Who needs that translation? 20:37:58 though I honestly that was suprisly easy to read without the translation 20:38:01 resu: Close. the first character was actually a capital I. d-: 20:38:19 ... well im no grammer nazi so meh 20:38:57 didnt even take a second to figure out what it said though kinda like reading backwards 20:39:06 resu: admirable 20:39:21 "Grammar", not "grammer", and "I'm", not "im", and you need a comma after "nazi"... And "nazi" should probably start with a capital N, as it's a proper name... 20:39:32 lol 20:40:05 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:12 Actually it's an abreviation for National Socialism. 20:40:54 Oh god, what have I done. 20:41:14 *resu* hides from gramma nazi's 20:41:23 ruediger__ [~quassel@ptmx.org] has joined #lisp 20:42:01 pjb: Okay, I'll buy that... 20:42:37 -!- ruediger__ [~quassel@ptmx.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:45 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:48:47 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:49:25 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-137.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:06 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-ovckhtlstkmvdsur] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:53:24 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:52 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 20:56:21 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:57:05 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 20:57:18 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 20:58:18 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:59:18 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:00:14 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: time to go..] 21:00:16 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.174.94] has joined #lisp 21:03:26 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.227] has joined #lisp 21:03:33 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.128.177] has joined #lisp 21:05:12 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:07:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:10:11 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.60] has joined #lisp 21:13:36 zobbo|emacs [~user@zobbo.plus.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:10 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:48 Beeff [~Beef@83.101.33.55] has joined #lisp 21:16:13 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.87.5.32.user.ajato.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:57 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:18:16 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:34 yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.59] has joined #lisp 21:18:43 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928224103]] 21:20:28 -!- ruediger [ruediger@pseudoterminal.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:02 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:21:20 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:29 -!- Beeff [~Beef@83.101.33.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:22:48 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:23:23 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:23:28 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:30 -!- Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:25 ruediger [~quassel@ptmx.org] has joined #lisp 21:24:42 pnq [~nick@ACA2081D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:01 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:25:15 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:33 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:55 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 21:29:09 -!- ruediger [~quassel@ptmx.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:20 _class_0 [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:31 Pip [~Pip@unaffiliated/pip] has joined #lisp 21:29:52 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:52 -!- H4ns [57bd7fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.127.163] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:33:47 anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-212-26.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:34:13 H4ns [57bd7fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.127.163] has joined #lisp 21:36:01 spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:40 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:37:45 could someone recommend a good multi-threaded networking library (preferably using usocket) that would be good code for me to read? I want to become familiar with cl best practices. 21:38:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has joined #lisp 21:40:44 native, green ? 21:42:27 what's an example of green? I've only heard that in reference to the jvm 21:42:47 slyrus: ping 21:42:48 i think userspace 21:42:59 hey fe[nl]ix 21:43:05 spike2251: erlang, haskell 21:43:08 green would be bordeaux-threads i think 21:43:27 huh, I thought bordeaux-threads was native 21:43:35 native ? 21:43:42 is it native yet ? 21:43:57 slyrus: was it you who did the conversion of clx to git ? 21:44:00 wait what is native again ? 21:44:15 is that os native ? 21:44:23 fe[nl]ix: hmm... I can't remember if I did that or if I used the one on common-lisp.net 21:44:26 it's been a while 21:44:27 slyrus: several commit ids are incomplete 21:44:36 :( 21:44:43 well, I'm not sure what I'm talking about. I guess something that uses bordeuax threads, I'm really not sure which I should learn. 21:44:50 we can filter it to prettify it 21:44:50 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.12.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:08 I mean, I know who csr21 and rydis are, but it would be nice to have full names 21:45:11 fe[nl]ix: do you have a version that I should use instead? 21:45:15 spike2251: you can use usocket together with bordeaux-threads. 21:45:17 spike2251: i'm not sure a library like that really exists 21:45:34 (ie. one that's a good example of multithreaded network programming) 21:45:55 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:45:59 slyrus: not yet, but I can cook one 21:46:13 Ok. let me know what I can do to clean things up. 21:46:37 nikodemus: why not? is it a stupid thing to want to learn? I just was looking around and those seeem like two things I should know how to do in cl for the other stuff I want to work on. 21:47:31 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:42 hah, I'm not being snarky/sarcastic, I really can't tell if it's a stupid combination to look for. 21:48:19 spike2251: it is not stupid, it is just that there are not a lot of programs that integrate networking and multiprocessing and that would be nice examples. 21:48:19 in my experience (it's not really my field, though) networking and multithreading tend to come together in applications, not libraries 21:48:47 spike2251: one example of an application that uses networking and multithreading is hunchentoot, but it is rather hairy. 21:49:57 and i'm not sure the threading there qualifies as an example of style to emulate, really. but the last time i read it was well before you took over, and before ita patches came in, so maybe things are different 21:50:04 yeah, I was looking at hunchentoot, but I was kind of scared off by the amount of other libraries it was using. I was hoping that there might be something stupidly simple for me to start with. 21:50:21 nikodemus: it is not exemplary, no. 21:50:32 slyrus: see git filter-branch --help, the relevant option is --env-filter 21:51:21 I see that such a thing exists. What do you want me to do with it? (I still don't really understand the problem we're trying to solve) 21:51:25 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:49 slyrus: rewrite the history so that committer ids without full names and (and email addresses) get them assigned 21:52:56 maybe there is an application I could look at? I kind of meant library as in a framework or something, but maybe I'm misusing the nomenclature or something 21:53:00 this obviously changes the SHA1s as well 21:53:31 spike2251: nothing publicly accessible springs to mind 21:53:47 spike2251: what do you want to do? 21:54:57 optikalmouse [~user@69-165-169-120.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:55:52 I'm trying to use allegro with slime. I loaded quicklisp.lisp and (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") . I use (load (expand-file-name "~/quicklisp/slime-helper.el")) in ~/.emacs . I get a *slime-repl allegro*. How do I send stuff from a file-buffer to the repl? 21:56:00 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2081D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:56:21 I get this in the backtrace buffer: Debugger entered--Lisp error: (error "There is no connection to Lisp. See fi:common-lisp documentation.") 21:56:34 McRibbit: sounds like you have ELI installed at the same time 21:56:47 some key bindings and hooks in eli are incompatible with SLIME 21:57:01 restart emacs? 21:57:14 check that your emacs init files aren't loading eli first, then restart 21:58:05 there may be a site load file in the allegro install directory that loads ELI 21:58:13 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:58:28 (I'm not sure what you do to load eli anymore) 21:58:30 -!- McRibbit [~user@zaza10.ida.liu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:35 -!- udzinari` [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:45 slyrus: http://paste.lisp.org/+2P84 22:00:10 slyrus: I'll do the filtering and upload the repo somewhere 22:00:11 isn't that fi-site-init or something in the vein of that? 22:01:45 McRibbit [~user@zaza10.ida.liu.se] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 runenes [~rune@tunnel-43-38.vpn.uib.no] has joined #lisp 22:03:07 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:03:09 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:26 fe[nl]ix: ok, thanks@! 22:03:34 -!- runenes [~rune@tunnel-43-38.vpn.uib.no] has quit [Client Quit] 22:03:43 I'm browsing through the CMU repository and the majority of projects are either GPL'd, © by Sun, or using Allegro 4 :D 22:05:02 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:05:16 H4ns: yeah, that could be it! 22:05:44 oudeis [~oudeis@195.166.51.3] has joined #lisp 22:06:16 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.94.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:06:50 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:13 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 22:08:22 pnq [~nick@AC81080F.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:08:24 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81080F.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:09:15 wow, I am finally using slime after almost three months of ELI 22:10:25 nikodemus: well, my pie-in-the-sky goal is to write my own web framework 22:10:49 spike2251: why? everybody writes one. 22:10:53 spike2251: maybe you want to look at toot. 22:11:19 spike2251: it is the refactored http server component of hunchentoot which is meant to be a substrate for web frameworks. 22:11:26 -!- mdh``` [~user@cpe-98-155-87-40.san.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:31 h4ns: uh, where can I find it? http://www.cliki.net/admin/search?words=toot 22:13:32 spike2251: https://github.com/gigamonkey/toot 22:13:43 spike2251: it is not yet released 22:13:47 ah, thank you 22:15:35 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@83.101.33.59] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:16:08 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:25 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-170-204.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:15 marsell [~marsell@120.19.138.44] has joined #lisp 22:18:40 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:20:35 bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 22:21:20 it's impressive how buggy ASDF seems to be :D 22:22:18 a reflection of the effort it takes to write portable pathname-using code 22:23:13 spike2251: toot is probably about early-beta status. 22:23:45 If you're planning to build your own thing, give toot a whirl and let me know what you think. 22:24:11 fe[nl]ix bugs such as? 22:25:28 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-103-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 22:25:37 oudeis_ [~oudeis@195.166.51.3] has joined #lisp 22:25:37 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@195.166.51.3] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:26:00 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:03 fe[nl]ix: that, and interfacing with hundreds of projects (: 22:27:17 -!- H4ns [57bd7fa3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.127.163] has quit [Quit: slp] 22:27:18 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:50 spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:14 antifuchs: I was referring more to the ones about handling symlinks, walking directory trees in some corner cases 22:29:23 merging wild pathnames, etc... 22:29:40 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.253] has joined #lisp 22:30:15 fe[nl]ix: that sounds more like a problem with the underlying OS ;) 22:31:57 fe[nl]ix: ah, those. 22:32:40 optikalmouse: rather, the way cl pathnames are specified (or not specified) to be subtly incompatible with the unix VFS 22:33:34 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:34:13 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 22:35:02 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:36:16 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has joined #lisp 22:38:53 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:43:45 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:44:40 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:44:54 -!- McRibbit [~user@zaza10.ida.liu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:46:53 mcox [~user@140.253.50.113] has joined #lisp 22:47:05 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 22:52:23 spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:37 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@195.166.51.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:55:14 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-23-212-26.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:57:29 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:59:58 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-67.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:36 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 23:02:07 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:02:39 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-31-9.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:04:50 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:08:40 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:40 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:09:08 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-54.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:16 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-67.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:10:45 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 23:11:18 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Read error: Network is unreachable] 23:12:22 anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770DAD.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 23:15:04 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:53 Farzad [~root@46.225.100.193] has joined #lisp 23:16:15 Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 23:16:16 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 23:17:14 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:19:52 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:21:26 _class_ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:52 -!- _class_0 [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:22:23 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:22:33 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 23:25:17 -!- _class_ is now known as __class__ 23:28:24 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:30:11 I know this is a common lisp channel, but what do you guys think of 'newlisp' ? 23:30:25 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:08 zobbo|em` [~user@zobbo.plus.com] has joined #lisp 23:31:16 nothing. 23:31:22 -!- zobbo|emacs [~user@zobbo.plus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:30 nicdev_` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:40 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:31:42 whats that? a new dialect? 23:31:56 mensch [~mensch@c-98-217-184-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:06 -!- nicdev_` is now known as nicdev_ 23:32:29 -!- |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:35 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:40 -!- Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:32:42 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-159-30.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:50 |3b| [foobar@cpe-72-179-19-4.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:51 venk [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 23:32:55 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:33:01 ya its seems like it would be a neat little scripting tool 23:33:03 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:04 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:33:04 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #lisp 23:33:25 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:34:15 scripting like for web pages or something? 23:34:25 or applications? 23:34:38 resu: "new"lisp isn't particularly new anymore 23:34:55 (hasn't been for the last 10 years) 23:34:59 I didnt say it was farzad did 23:35:07 oh, sorry 23:35:12 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:35:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-148-54.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:42 anyway, I don't think anyone here would recommend it 23:36:18 I was wondering why I dont here much of it... I havent really had time mess with it much. 23:37:44 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:38:10 while there is an array of pretty impressive statistics functions in there, it comes with some ridiculously silly limitations. 23:38:55 pass-by-value (not by reference), no gc being the most glaring 23:40:27 no gc? thats news to me. 23:41:30 it does refcounting, IIRC 23:41:42 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:41:43 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:45 so you better not create cyclical structures! (: 23:42:05 antifuchs, what about arc? have u played with it? 23:42:24 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 23:42:29 not more than a cursory glance back when it was initially announced 23:42:59 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:43:03 antifuchs: no, it just copies everything. 23:44:53 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.63] has joined #lisp 23:45:59 [6502] [5e24e649@gateway/web/freenode/ip.94.36.230.73] has joined #lisp 23:46:43 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:47:01 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:36 pkhuong: ahahaha 23:47:41 pkhuong: that's even more ridiculous (: 23:48:13 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 23:49:33 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.128.177] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:54 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 23:54:00 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:54:30 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 23:56:30 -!- zobbo|em` [~user@zobbo.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:14 resu: you won't hear of most lisp dialects because they usually dont present anything new 23:57:46 zobbo|em` [~user@zobbo.plus.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:18 the ones that do, get used for interesting things though (-: 23:58:23 resu: if you check out scheme, you'll hear about different dialects of it because theyre usually trying to fit into a particular niche (Bigloo can be compiled, Chicken has something going for it lots of libraries I think, Gambit compiles into C) 23:58:58 so, again, why is dto website gone? 23:59:25 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp