00:00:46 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.19.152.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:00:49 [6502]: sbcls target is very different from javascript 00:01:12 <[6502]> prxq: yeah... i guess so :-D 00:01:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:02:04 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:06:47 [6502]: :-) 00:07:01 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75c4f3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: good night] 00:07:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:11:52 <[6502]> pkhuong: in SBCL (defun foo () (tagbody (print "Hello, world"))) and (defun foo () (print "Hello, world")) do not generate the same code... 00:13:20 [6502]: they return different values, for one. 00:13:29 <[6502]> doh 00:14:51 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:15:48 urandom__ [~user@p548A55A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:23 <[6502]> xach: indeed adding a NIL at the end of the one without tagbody the compiled code is identical... 00:17:03 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-92-103-199.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:21 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:40 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:18:49 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:50 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 00:19:02 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:00 -!- superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-177.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:25 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:28:15 -!- rainyrhy_away is now known as rainyrhy 00:28:44 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:29:04 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:41 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:41:56 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 00:44:22 -!- psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has left #lisp 00:48:06 hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:33 -!- hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:52:36 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 00:53:49 [6502]: so how is your lisp on top of js different from all the others? 00:55:04 <[6502]> jasom: do you mean compared to all others lisps over js on github? that's not dead yet... 00:55:08 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:55:35 [6502]: just in general; there are lots of lisps on js in existence, is this just for fun or are you trying to do something different? 00:55:43 <[6502]> jasom: also it's a compiler (not an interpreter). compiled lisp functions are regular javascript functions 00:56:29 <[6502]> jasom: it's a lisp 2, somewhat similar to CL, but not a CL (for example there's no numeric tower, just doubles like in javascript) 00:56:58 <[6502]> jasom: also there are no cons cells ... lists are javascript arrays 00:58:42 cool. Are you targeting the client or the server? 00:59:11 <[6502]> jasom: early versions could run also on node.js... it's long i'm not testing it however 01:00:14 ah, well there are a lot of tradeoffs. For example many lisps that are targeted at the browser don't have the compiler available at runtime to reduce the footprint 01:02:04 <[6502]> jasom: i'm thinking to add a treeshaker, so the compiler can be absent if it's not used at runtime. actually i was also thinking to add a configurator so features could be turned on/off (e.g. argument checking) 01:02:26 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 01:02:50 <[6502]> jasom: but first i need to find a way to partition the namespace... i'm not sure i wanna take the CL path... i'm still trying to grok CL packages 01:03:59 <[6502]> jasom: right now i'm fighting instead with tagbody implementation 01:04:08 [6502]: Did you read www.flownet.com/gat/packages.pdf ? 01:05:44 <[6502]> antoszka: yes... i understand the mechanic... i need to understand how to use it effectively. there are also things i don't really like (e.g. that nicknames are not local at use site) 01:06:48 I found that text really enlightening, but then, being pretty much a noob, most things are 01:08:09 Ugh, that text is not very good. 01:08:26 <[6502]> antoszka: i found practical common lisp quite nice on that part 01:08:27 It refers to CLTL1 concepts and language. 01:09:56 Xach: Hm. I didn't notice any of that  it seemed pretty up to date about the effects of randomly typing symbols into the reader, interning, uninterning and the like. 01:10:09 Stuff that wasn't clear for me. 01:10:33 antoszka: the terrible stuff in it is unfortunately only clear if you already know how packages really work. 01:10:38 Xach: Would you suggest something less CLTL1 about symbols and packages? 01:10:55 antoszka: the hyperspec is fairly straightforward though not a tutorial 01:11:02 practical common lisp is a good place to check too 01:11:16 I'll get back to the packages chapter in PCL, then. 01:11:17 thx 01:11:31 <[6502]> tagbody! 01:11:43 goto! 01:11:57 <[6502]> antoszka: yes... but in javascript :-D 01:12:04 No, in basic! 01:12:17 <[6502]> antoszka: actually longjmp ... something even uglier 01:12:30 [6502]: Doesn't tell me much. 01:12:53 (i mean, it does *look* somewhat familiar, but doesn't ring any bell) 01:13:09 <[6502]> antoszka: jumping from one function into the middle of a parent one up the stack 01:13:15 ah 01:14:03 that's libc stuff, or something? 01:15:31 <[6502]> antoszka: yes, it's standard C 01:15:46 <[6502]> antoszka: poor man's exceptions 01:15:50 :) 01:16:21 how can you see what you have running in the background in a lisp prompt? 01:16:58 jaimef: Are you asking about threads? 01:17:41 yes 01:17:50 <[6502]> sleeptime for me... tanks for the patience of tolerating my stupid questions guys :-)... l8r 01:17:52 jaimef: (sb-thread:list-all-threads) in sbcl. 01:18:00 Xach: thanks 01:18:01 -!- [6502] [4e0ce17d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.225.125] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:21:47 (bordeaux-threads:all-threads), if you're using that abstraction. 01:22:15 (however thin it may be) 01:22:50 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 01:22:55 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:24:10 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 01:24:56 nice 01:25:04 now I just need some better autocompletion in slime 01:26:53 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:31:16 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A55A0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:35:48 jaimef: better how? 01:38:20 crassus [~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 01:45:14 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:45:57 -!- _death is now known as adeht 01:50:40 felideon [~user@weston-69.65.92.95.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 01:54:57 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 01:56:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-200.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:56:33 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-200.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:24 jathdr [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:42 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:01:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-189-167.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:05:48 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:03 -!- jathdr [~user@mon69-5-88-169-253-165.fbx.proxad.net] has left #lisp 02:09:17 leo2007 [~leo@59.60.43.99] has joined #lisp 02:13:46 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.68] has joined #lisp 02:13:46 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.68] has quit [Changing host] 02:13:46 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:19:58 superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-177.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:45 https://gist.github.com/1378339 what am I doing wrong here? 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04:15:51 some people do 04:16:11 some people have keyboards that have that by default :) 04:16:18 just looking for the "capslock -> control" mod equivalent. or rather where people typically put them 04:16:41 jaimef: Are you on X11? 04:17:05 not asking how. rather I am asking where people typically locate their () if not default 04:17:09 ahh 04:17:10 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:17:25 I think many people used the [] keys on classic PC layout 04:18:06 leo2007 [~leo@59.60.43.99] has joined #lisp 04:18:08 ok thanks. just finding it awkward to hit parens so often. should master para-edit mode I guess 04:18:55 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56426.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:22:37 joooooo [setmeaway3@119.201.52.190] has joined #lisp 04:22:43 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:23:35 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:25:04 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:25:27 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:56 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:29:23 pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has joined #lisp 04:33:51 chenbing [~user@60.186.246.81] has joined #lisp 04:36:54 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-174.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 04:37:19 MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-145-79.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 04:39:04 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-157-94.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:41:31 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.68] has joined #lisp 04:41:32 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.68] has quit [Changing host] 04:41:32 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:42:40 so if you are constantly revising a function by redefining it constantly will that do the right thing and replace the other version completely? thus any running service would be replaced by the new version/ 04:42:42 ? 04:43:31 Yes, but watch the macros. 04:43:41 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:43:52 If you redefine a macro, the new definition won't 'percolate' into functions that use it. 04:44:23 same can happen with inlined functions 04:44:47 or any form of LAP (whee, now that's a crazy thought :D) 04:45:12 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@24.106.207.82] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:45:12 Ah, I didn't know that, p_l. Is there a way to determine if a function is inlined or to force it to not be inlined (e.g., you are working on developing it) 04:46:35 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 04:47:51 I don't think so. Nothing portable, definitely 04:48:21 mind you, unless you define it as inlined, it won't be 04:48:27 k thanks 04:48:29 or so I understood 04:48:32 can't you declaim notinline? 04:48:33 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:48:48 Bike: I think that's the default? 04:49:04 but there's still a declaration for it. 04:50:52 triliyn [~alyssa@76-206-56-151.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:51:14 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:51 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:52:15 Is there a way to query the event queue directly with lispbuilder-sdl? 04:54:33 p_l: modulo compilation units, but that doesn't happen at the REPL. 04:58:12 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-177.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [] 05:03:50 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-222-161.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:05:09 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:07:14 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:08:01 -!- Guest46009 [~Kron@69.166.21.48] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:10:15 -!- lanthan [~ze@pD9554947.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 05:10:25 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:11:01 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:15:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has joined #lisp 05:22:29 madrik [~user@122.168.4.39] has joined #lisp 05:23:27 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176324795.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:23:33 so I got the Slade OO Lisp book 05:23:45 it's not too bad, there's a good example for a spellchecker in it 05:24:05 and I like the fact that it has some problems/exercises. I miss these old programming books that had GOOD and CHALLENGING exercises... 05:24:55 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.88] has joined #lisp 05:24:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.88] has quit [Changing host] 05:24:55 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:25:31 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.233.106] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:25:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.233.106] has joined #lisp 05:26:23 *jaimef* ponders why some things just don't return in repl 05:26:44 -!- leo2007 [~leo@59.60.43.99] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.91.1] 05:28:31 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56426.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 05:28:32 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 05:28:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:07 ahh sbcl is cpubound 05:31:38 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:31:41 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:35:44 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:36:56 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:37:05 resty_ya [~hbkbhkkh@223.255.224.18] has joined #lisp 05:37:35 hmmm? 05:37:49 maybe you got some infinite loop somewhere? 05:38:24 -!- chenbing [~user@60.186.246.81] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:39:54 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.88] has joined #lisp 05:39:54 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.88] has quit [Changing host] 05:39:54 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:40:18 -!- resty_ya [~hbkbhkkh@223.255.224.18] has left #lisp 05:46:02 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 05:48:42 resty_ya [~hbkbhkkh@223.255.224.18] has joined #lisp 05:52:38 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56789.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:38 stickycake [~stickycak@ool-ade56789.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 05:55:59 -!- resty_ya is now known as resty_bigtits 05:55:59 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:56:50 -!- madrik [~user@122.168.4.39] has left #lisp 05:59:06 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 05:59:59 -!- resty_bigtits is now known as resty_tits 06:01:46 peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 06:03:20 -!- resty_tits is now known as resty_ballon 06:03:30 -!- resty_ballon is now known as resty_baloon 06:05:37 yeah typo on my part 06:06:39 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:10:40 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:11:06 -!- resty_baloon [~hbkbhkkh@223.255.224.18] has left #lisp 06:19:21 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:23:43 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:28:06 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:33:32 hba [~hba@189.229.193.163] has joined #lisp 06:39:04 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:41:10 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:44:29 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:47:23 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:35 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:57:23 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:59:09 libster [~libster@pool-71-191-144-140.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:13 -!- libster [~libster@pool-71-191-144-140.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 07:00:15 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:00:26 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 07:02:44 akovalenko [~user@95.72.169.53] has joined #lisp 07:02:45 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.34.34] has joined #lisp 07:02:48 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-105.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:07:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-190-105.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:11:41 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:12:14 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:25 H4ns [57bd7c0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.124.13] has joined #lisp 07:16:21 -!- hba [~hba@189.229.193.163] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:19:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.34.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:49 scombinator [~user@210-86-96-141.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has joined #lisp 07:30:17 Sup guys 07:32:26 The "Sup" is in the /topic... 07:34:41 chenbing [~user@60.177.82.77] has joined #lisp 07:35:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:39:32 -!- scombinator [~user@210-86-96-141.jetstream.xtra.co.nz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:39:50 pjb: forgive scombinator, he is a brogrammer 07:40:11 oh shoot, he just left, *pours one out for the bro* 07:40:14 ;p 07:41:17 em,what's the meaning a brogrammer?:-) 07:42:52 chenbing: brother programmer. "Sup" = "What's up". 07:43:04 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.24] has joined #lisp 07:43:33 chenbing: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=what%27s%20up 07:45:01 chenbing: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tauYnVE6ykU&feature=related 07:45:54 -!- triliyn [~alyssa@76-206-56-151.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:46:27 a brother programmer means a programmer in friend,like a gang;and I know "what'up" 07:46:47 chenbing: no, here "brother" means the kind of people you see in the youtube video... 07:50:12 ...oh 07:50:37 I assume a bad-tempered and unintelligent guy... 07:50:41 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has left #lisp 07:51:17 judging from the video, you also need to be black or hispanic to qualify. 07:52:02 Yes. 07:52:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:52:16 That's the stereotype. 07:53:18 <_3b> wrong stereotype for 'brogrammer' though 07:53:29 o~~~~,I know 07:53:42 _3b: what would be the etymology of brogrammer then? 07:54:34 <_3b> same/similar etymology, probably even by way of that meaning 07:54:40 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56789.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:54:40 -!- stickycake [~stickycak@ool-ade56789.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:57:33 H4ns: lol no bro ;p 08:01:27 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.88] has joined #lisp 08:01:27 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.88] has quit [Changing host] 08:01:27 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 08:03:15 -!- djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:09:25 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 08:10:25 djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 08:10:55 em ,sometimes brogrammer is a well meaning,especially some guys playing at iphone apps 08:11:32 it's kind of an insult, but it's the sort of insult that is rarely used in anything but a friendly way 08:11:53 since it's a bit too obscure and specific to actually offend someone 08:12:00 so glad we've talked this through! 08:12:27 marsell [~marsell@101.116.38.11] has joined #lisp 08:12:43 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-27-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:12:43 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-27-37.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:12:43 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:12:53 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:15:10 improving the reading comprehension of ESLers seems like a nice thing to do. 08:15:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:15:44 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:15:44 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:16:17 -!- chenbing [~user@60.177.82.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:21:03 -!- sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925081173.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:50 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-233-158.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:23:13 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-233-158.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:48 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.233.106] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:29:50 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:30:42 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 08:32:06 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 08:34:59 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 08:38:22 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has left #lisp 08:41:49 cmpitg [~cmpitg@211.25.202.5] has joined #lisp 08:42:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:44:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:45:01 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45:59 -!- rainyrhy is now known as rainyrhy_away 08:46:06 chenbing [~user@115.206.198.119] has joined #lisp 08:54:13 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 08:55:17 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@211.25.202.5] has left #lisp 08:57:12 -!- easyE [vV6poZ2MxE@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:57:51 chenbing` [~user@218.72.94.4] has joined #lisp 08:57:52 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:58:54 Ralith: except for Swedish people/ 08:59:13 Ralith: ESL is inappropriate for them, they speak better English than...freaking everyone -_-' 08:59:28 -!- chenbing [~user@115.206.198.119] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:29 haha 09:00:32 why do you say that 09:00:41 I heard once it's getting common for Swedes to talk in english with other Swedes, but I somehow doubt that ;) 09:01:22 Europeans are crazy. 09:01:42 They should speak Latin. 09:05:11 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has joined #lisp 09:05:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-200.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:06:46 chenbing [~user@115.192.196.13] has joined #lisp 09:07:28 -!- chenbing` [~user@218.72.94.4] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:31 pjb: the french were adverse to that, somehow 09:10:40 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.216.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:13:09 chenbing` [~user@218.72.88.207] has joined #lisp 09:13:28 -!- chenbing [~user@115.192.196.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:15:25 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 09:15:49 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-145-79.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:15:51 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 09:16:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:18:51 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 09:19:35 -!- Hypah [~Hypah@c-71-205-17-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:19:52 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:08 pjb: in Flemish Belgium and the Netherlands it's rather common as well. at least for youngsters 09:22:23 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:24:11 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176324795.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:43 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-235-211.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:35:20 *jaimef* ponders how to read the contents of a file into a string 09:35:38 jaimef: most implementations have a file-contents function 09:35:55 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 09:36:00 (COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM.FILE:TEXT-FILE-CONTENTS path) 09:36:25 H4ns: really? 09:36:32 pjb: yes. 09:36:50 pjb: or at least many libraries that i use, so i never have trouble finding one. 09:37:14 H4ns: yes, libraries, but not implementations. 09:38:00 pjb: many implementations come with libraries, and some have file-contents 09:38:21 H4ns: clall '(apropos "FILE-CONTENT")' disproves you. 09:38:47 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 09:39:06 pjb: some == 1 == allegro cl. can you get on with it now, please? 09:39:15 All right. 09:41:15 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.79] has left #lisp 09:45:43 jaimef: i'd refer to this: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3221610744163603@naggum.net.html 09:45:52 -!- chenbing` [~user@218.72.88.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:47:27 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:47:54 *madnificent* would use w-o-f and read-lines 09:49:00 madnificent: if you don't mind the overhead, that'd be a fine solution, too. 09:49:53 Notice that file-length needs to read the files a first time for nothing. 09:50:27 pjb: good point 09:51:16 Hypah [~Hypah@c-76-112-74-142.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:52 -!- marsell [~marsell@101.116.38.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:53:06 actually, what would be the fastest way to read a file, and could it be done in a conforming way? 09:53:15 (COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM.FILE:TEXT-FILE-CONTENTS path) 09:53:35 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:54:09 pjb: you'd be so much more kind if you'd posted urls and published under a liberal license. 09:54:23 GPL is a liberal license. 09:54:30 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/ 09:54:43 pjb: not at all, as it requires the user to re-publish under the gpl 09:55:07 Yes, let's all share our codes. 09:55:41 pjb: see? this is not liberal. 09:55:56 anyway, it was just a suggestion. 09:56:02 I don't have any financial security. Until then it'll be GPL. 09:57:23 cmpitg [~cmpitg@211.25.202.5] has joined #lisp 09:58:41 But the url is not really needed, since you get it with (ql:quickload :COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM) as anything else... 09:58:53 ok enough lisp. need sleep, then surfing 10:05:27 There's never enough lisp. 10:05:34 daniel [~daniel@p5B326005.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:07:25 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p508298B6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:10:19 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:00 hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:18:46 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 10:21:06 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@211.25.202.5] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:21:30 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.12.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:29:00 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: be back later] 10:31:49 -!- EyesIsAsleep is now known as EyesIsServer 10:41:01 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:42:00 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:43:32 morning 10:43:35 -!- billstclair is now known as wws 10:46:55 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:48:19 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:49:07 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 10:50:30 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:55:09 Guest25290 [~drake01@115.246.216.139] has joined #lisp 10:55:14 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 10:55:46 -!- Guest25290 [~drake01@115.246.216.139] has quit [Client Quit] 10:58:48 chenbing [~user@218.72.95.93] has joined #lisp 11:01:08 hi all 11:01:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:01:51 If I open a file with the following instructions : (defparameter *file* (open "filename" :direction :output)) 11:02:03 How can I write data in that file with (print) or (format) ? 11:05:52 ascii or binarry? 11:06:47 with-open-stream ? 11:07:19 ascii 11:07:41 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.54.87] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 11:07:41 I'm going to take a look at with-open-stream, thanks ! 11:07:47 with-open-file 11:11:03 urandom__ [~user@p548A3D91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:14:12 -!- bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:25:39 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 11:28:37 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:35:08 -!- Em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:35:21 Blkt [~user@82.84.190.228] has joined #lisp 11:35:44 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177889870.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:36:58 Em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 11:37:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:41:03 good morning everyone 11:41:04 hakzsam: (write-string "foo" *file*) (write-char #\b *file*) (write-line "ar and a newline!" *file*) 11:41:33 hakzsam: see also fresh-line and terpri 11:41:43 and format, of course :) 11:45:11 thanks! 11:48:40 -!- superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-177.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:49:04 superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-177.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:36 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.253.114.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 11:50:20 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 11:50:54 Good afternoon. 11:54:41 hi 12:00:20 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CA67.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:16 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.98] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:03:22 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:05:27 gensym 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the ip is pingable 14:33:30 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.98] has joined #lisp 14:33:34 unknown host ? 14:35:05 unable to resolve host address 14:35:33 no biggy, just wanted to check the release notes for .53 14:36:54 b9.com dns is fubar 14:38:01 it's a dns issue, there is an exploit out there, may take a while before everything gets fixed everywhere. i don't think sbcl.org is the only affected site. 14:40:47 kevin is on the case, but i don't have a schedule 14:41:00 sbcl.sourceforge.net works in the meanwhile 14:41:41 Guther: not sure if this is the same as the release notes, but it's from the news file in sbcl source: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125967 14:43:15 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 14:43:41 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:56 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 14:48:02 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:48:09 chenbing [~user@115.192.194.85] has joined 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rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 16:55:49 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-18-68-188.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:12 -!- nonduality [~alex@t198-037.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:02:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:03:24 gavinharper [~gavinharp@82.128.187.237] has joined #lisp 17:07:42 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 17:08:15 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:43 Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.216.158] has joined #lisp 17:16:41 Joreji [~thomas@83-164.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 17:17:18 wow I am so not sure what I am doing here. https://gist.github.com/1379067 17:17:46 -!- deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:18:53 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.236] has joined #lisp 17:20:36 crassus_ [~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:49 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@82.128.187.237] has quit [] 17:23:24 Shaftoe_ [~memet@69-165-143-175.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:57 is there a place where lispers post their resumes? 17:24:10 how does one go about finding a lisper for hire? 17:24:45 depends on the lisp implementation you want your solution to be implemented 17:25:51 it would be a permanent part/full time remote job for an online service provider in sbcl 17:26:21 hmm you need ones who work with networks then.... 17:26:35 lispjobs 17:26:42 ah 17:26:48 is that a url ? 17:27:02 http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/? 17:27:21 that's a good way to reach people who read planet lisp. 17:28:04 thanks 17:28:07 for others, i wouldn't know... perhaps try the common lisp group in LinkedIn 17:28:23 Shaftoe_: also, i'm curious as to where/what the job is 17:28:40 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:28:55 madnificent: job is remote. servers are in N/A but operations is spread out 17:29:00 no need to relocate 17:29:27 if you want more info, pm me your email and I'll send you a brief synopsis 17:31:15 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has joined #lisp 17:32:27 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:32:55 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA041C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 -!- saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0EBC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:34:37 ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has joined #lisp 17:36:45 superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-177.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:46 in other news: anyone here used to use aquamacs and went to using emacs on osx? 17:41:49 -!- crassus_ [~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:41:56 (for lisp development specifically) 17:42:25 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA041C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:42:59 I use normal emacs on osx 17:45:28 pnq [~nick@AC81ADE2.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:45:32 Shaftoe_: yeah .. aquamacs is broken in some ways (forget the specifics) 17:45:33 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:04 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81ADE2.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:46:32 oGMo: tell me about it. The frames and buffers are very broken. I just lived with it for all thie time 17:47:00 pnathan: how do you deal with the interference of command keys from OSX. e.g. command+H should hide a window, but it gets hijacked by emacs. 17:47:28 Aquamacs' key integration was great. I'm wondering if there's some sort of script out there that works in emacs 17:47:53 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 17:49:31 crassus_ [~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:39 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 17:50:42 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:11 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:51:23 Shaftoe_: i recall switching to the vanilla gnuemacs build as soon as i tried using any custom stuff 17:51:29 Shaftoe_: My mode of work is to remap the command key to meta, since it fits my hands most comfortably. 17:51:47 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:51:49 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:52:20 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:52:22 pnathan: aye, I do that too. 17:52:43 Well, I think I'm going to spend this saturday just slogging through my .emacs config file until I'm satisfied. 17:52:48 I've been putting this off long enough 17:54:55 saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:55:21 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:58 -!- saschakb_ [~saschakb@p4FEA0E30.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Client Quit] 17:58:49 Shaftoe_: i have command and alt swapped and use gnu emacs. copy and paste work great for me. 17:58:52 Shaftoe_: were you a Mac user before an Emacs user? 17:59:14 gigamonkey: yessum 17:59:36 gigamonkey: I should add that I learned to use emacs on aquamacs 17:59:37 I see. I use vanilla GNU emacs but when key bindings conflict, I consider OS X to be in the wrong. ;-) 17:59:52 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:59:58 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:54 I'm actually getting there. I've just completely removed command from my mappings. 18:02:06 I have plenty enough keys to handle my stuff 18:02:12 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:02:49 anyways, I realize this is very intimate stuff =) we all have our way of brushing our teeth etc. 18:03:19 -!- crassus_ [~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:51 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:03:53 But some ways are just wrong. For instance there was this guy in college who used to hold his toothbrush still and move his head. 18:04:08 let's call him "Frank". 18:04:09 =) 18:04:18 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:04:32 Any alexandria hackers here? 18:05:02 the main issue I'm trying to avoid is "blind operation continuity". I generally command-tab very frequently, and I don't want an application to hijack global behaviour. 18:05:42 Somehow Command-tab still works for me (i.e. goes through to the OS) I'm not sure if I took specific steps to make that the case. 18:05:48 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:53 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:10 gigamonkey: i'm weakly present 18:06:19 Re, alexandria--is it possible for the funny package name ("ALEXANDRIA.0.DEV") to be a nickname and for the real name to be "ALEXANDRIA"? 18:06:24 yeah, I know. I don't remember what steps I took that broke my entire setup. I've restarted from scratch now. 18:06:26 I suspect no, but am too spacy to think of why. 18:07:09 gigamonkey: maybe. i'll think about it 18:07:33 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:12 I ask because it makes Alexandria look funny in my Manifest tool. 18:08:43 show the shortest name? 18:09:27 nikodemus: not that useful for all the GL packages ;) 18:09:44 serves them right :) 18:09:46 Well, anyway I'm curious what the rationale for the current scheme is. 18:10:00 kind of busy just now 18:10:06 Okay. Some other time. 18:11:44 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 18:11:46 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.48] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 18:13:14 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:14:22 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:20:40 how do i create a "buffer is a Lisp vector, type of (simple-array (unsigned-byte 8) *)" 18:20:43 ? 18:21:49 (make-array size :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) 18:21:58 mooglenorph [~marco@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 18:22:24 Hi. What's the quickest way to get set up drawing 2d animations in common lisp? I'm using sbcl with quicklisp installed on linux. 18:22:45 What do you mean by animations? 18:22:53 hba [~hba@187.171.193.93] has joined #lisp 18:23:14 gigamonkey: thanks 18:23:15 gigamonkey: like, really, really basic stuff. graph of a sinousoidal curve and a dot moving around. 18:23:40 mooglenorph: Xach has a couple image manipulation/creation libraries that he uses, among other things, to generate animated gifs. 18:24:01 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:04 Otherwise you'll probably need to check out some UI toolkits. 18:24:06 x-y plane, lines or curves on it, updating the position of a dot, and maybe if I'm feeling ambitious, a triangle, at each time step 18:25:48 mooglenorph: to elaborate on pkhuong's point: you'll either need to make your application UI enabled, or you'll need to dump your output to image files and use another UI application (e.g. webpage) to show it. 18:25:56 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:25:58 the later will be simpler but less responsive 18:25:59 It also depends on to what end? Just for your own visualization purposes? 18:26:24 Or in the context of some application? 18:27:02 just for visualization 18:27:39 you could use imagick's command line stuff. or the image manipulation libraries that pkhuong mentionned. 18:27:54 Yeah, I'm looking at the GIF library now, it looks pretty good. 18:28:06 alrighty 18:28:40 if I don't choose to go that route (ie, end up wanting something more responsive) what UI toolkit do people recommend for a beginner? 18:29:37 arguably, none ;) You'd be learning both lisp and the UI library. 18:30:00 Oh, I know common lisp rather well. 18:30:07 I've just never done any graphics programming, ever. 18:30:49 I've used CL for a bunch of xml shunting, some websites, and some statistics stuff. 18:30:49 mooglenorph: most of the complexity in UI toolkits is user interaction (mouse, events and event loops). 18:30:52 making images is very easy 18:30:56 ok i am a complete so be kind 18:31:13 ok i am a complete _noob_ so be kind 18:31:24 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:29 images always boils down to 2D arrays. I had heard of a OpenGL toolkit for lisp. I'd check that out. 18:31:48 ok, cool. thanks. 18:31:52 i am using usocket version 0.5.4 that I loaded via quicklisp 18:31:54 mooglenorph: long ago I played around with SDL with reasonable results. 18:31:58 but I can tell you from experience working OpenGL *outside* of lisp, that it is *very* complicated. I've done years of UI programming and Open GL is just a PITA 18:32:06 mooglenorph: something like lispbuilder, maybe. SDL makes it easy to draw toa canvas. 18:32:35 When I ran (usocket:socket-receive) I get the following error Symbol "SOCKET-RECEIVE" not found in the USOCKET package. 18:32:48 this is because you're running on linux. If you had mac, I'd definitely recommend cl on cocoa. Cocoa has excellent graphics routines. 18:32:57 I'll give lispbuilder a shot then, SDL looks pretty friendly. 18:32:58 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:33:31 thanks :-) 18:33:53 ivan-kanis: lisppaste a transcript. 18:34:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:35:13 pkhuong: you want me to paste what I have been feeding the repl? 18:35:29 enough for others to reproduce the issue. 18:35:43 We like around here. 18:35:48 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 18:36:04 ok before doing a paste 18:36:16 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@211.25.202.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:31 in usocket.lisp there is something like (defgeneric socket-receive (usocket buffer length &key) 18:36:32 18:36:50 i don't know what (defgeneric does... 18:37:01 ivan-kanis: what are you actually trying to do? 18:37:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-164.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:37:11 it defines a generic function.... 18:37:35 which calls the appropritate method...for your object instances.... 18:38:20 gigamonkey: some kind of build server that talks to build client 18:38:33 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:49 Okay, you need to paste what you're trying to do. 18:39:04 i'll get some food in me and come back ;) 18:41:25 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:44:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:48:55 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:51:26 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:43 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.32.158.96] has joined #lisp 18:53:51 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:54:26 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:56:58 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:29 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has joined #lisp 18:57:40 -!- MoALTz__ [~no@host-92-8-251-141.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:58:07 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-251-141.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:18 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:25 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 19:01:52 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@177.32.158.96] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:05:33 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:06:09 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:44 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:48 Hypah [~Hypah@c-71-205-17-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:23 hba_ [~hba@187.171.207.79] has joined #lisp 19:10:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:11:15 tyson1 [~Ian@69-165-217-17.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:16 -!- hba [~hba@187.171.193.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:12:32 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.216.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:16:12 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:47 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:35 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.102.36] has joined #lisp 19:21:34 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:26:01 boy, i have never ever looked at contemporary web application environments. i'm looking at jade now, and it is awful. everything is spread into gazillions of files, loads of underspecified ad hoc language constructs and template little languages, html mixed with code galore. i must puke. 19:26:02 sorry. 19:26:08 i had to get rid of this. 19:26:41 jade? 19:26:44 H4ns: I hire people to do that for me (: 19:27:40 Oh, wow, that looks awful. I don't think it's representative of modern webapp environments 19:28:16 pkhuong: the most astonishing thing about this is that these folks actually think that what they do is great. am i just getting old? i mean, to me, this looks as if cobol programmers bragging about their stuff. 19:28:35 rsynnott: ok, thanks for reassuring me. i'll skip jade. 19:28:37 H4ns: it looks very much like that, and probably for the same reason 19:29:19 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:29:55 not that webapp development is a bed of roses (I'm very glad to be out of it), but it's not generally THAT bad 19:31:18 rsynnott: i'm thinking that bknr-web is not that bad after all. clear separation of code and data, templates in a sane syntax. but when i asked in #node.js which template engine would use xml as template format, i basically received blank stares in response. 19:31:23 is there a way to get the system object for the asdf system currently being loaded? 19:31:25 you get something similar with Flash programmers; the tools cost a few thousand quid and don't work properly, the language is awful, and the VM is terrible, but many of the developers are fiercely loyal 19:32:55 H4ns: XML-based template languages are reasonably common 19:33:27 rsynnott: not in the node.js world, it seems. 19:33:47 well, anyway, i'll have to get on with it. :/ 19:33:52 -!- superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-177.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:34:37 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3FBF.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:36:02 -!- tyson1 [~Ian@69-165-217-17.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 19:36:10 and apart from the awful templating options, express.js seems pretty cool. 19:36:38 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 19:36:58 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.199] has joined #lisp 19:40:20 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-170-230.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:45:02 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-035-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:02 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 19:49:05 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:52:50 superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-177.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:56 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:57:36 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 19:58:42 H4ns: node.js puzzles me a bit; I'm not really sure what the point is 19:59:02 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:59:58 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 20:01:10 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:01:24 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:31 resu [~resu@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 20:02:05 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 20:02:23 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:02:58 hey how does one print ansi colors to the console (linux/urxvt)? 20:03:03 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:03:49 ive tried (format t "\e[0;33mfoobar") but that doesnt seem to work 20:04:47 I guess what im asking is how can I get the escape sequences to work I without resorting to Ncurses (clearly over kill for just using colors) 20:04:48 rme [~rme@50.43.151.225] has joined #lisp 20:05:31 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:05:43 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:06:09 resu: (format t "~C" #\Escape) will emit an escape. 20:06:30 rsynnott: the point is: one language on server and on client. and: non-blocking i/o on server. 20:06:51 resu: would probably be handy to come up with something nice like ~/ansi:code/ 20:07:35 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 20:07:58 benny [~benny@i577A1F41.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:08:55 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:20 hmm http://paste.lisp.org seems broken... 20:09:28 what do you guys use for pasting? 20:09:38 ivan-kanis: we use it, and paste the url manually 20:09:49 ivan-kanis: we're used to pain 20:10:35 ah found it, http://paste.lisp.org/display/125974 20:10:50 this is my feeble attempt to create something that listens on a socket 20:11:39 ivan-kanis: the receive function needs to know which socket it should receive from. 20:12:47 H4ns: I get the following error Symbol "SOCKET-RECEIVE" not found in the USOCKET package. 20:13:00 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:05 ivan-kanis: (apropos "receive" :usocket) 20:13:26 is *socket* some kind of object and i have to call a member function? 20:13:40 ivan-kanis: no. there are no "member functions" in common lisp 20:13:48 ok 20:13:52 ivan-kanis: you may want to read a book, too. 20:14:02 ivan-kanis: how did you install usocket? 20:14:17 H4ns: i've cracked open the land of lisp ;) 20:14:59 H4ns: using QuickLisp 20:15:08 ivan-kanis: what implementation? 20:15:40 H4ns: cmucl 20:16:12 ivan-kanis: should work, but sbcl or clozure cl are more common in this channel 20:16:55 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.173.135] has joined #lisp 20:17:07 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.173.135] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:29 H4ns: i usually use sbcl, it's just there's this silly bug with Debian and QuickLisp 20:17:51 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:18:24 ivan-kanis: not at all. just ignore debians package and install sbcl using the tarball and install.sh 20:18:33 ivan-kanis: common-lisp-controller is teh suck 20:18:34 Xach: thanks a bunch 20:19:03 H4ns: well just like their idea of emacs package management 20:19:32 ivan-kanis: nothing wrong with it. just ignore it for all things common lisp. 20:20:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:19 H4ns: i was going to install sbcl, their web site was down, so i picked cmucl instead 20:20:44 ivan-kanis: go for clozure cl. that'll work just fine. 20:21:07 ivan-kanis: or go to http://sbcl.sourceforge.net/ 20:23:05 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 20:24:07 H4ns: ok i'll grab sbcl 20:24:59 oh sure, kick sand in my face. ;-) 20:27:18 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:27:49 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.190.39.231] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 20:28:03 rtoym [~chatzilla@24.130.4.105] has joined #lisp 20:31:32 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:33:28 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:33:44 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:12 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:36:43 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:42 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:38:43 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:45:29 H4ns: fwiw i am having the same error with sbcl... 20:46:22 ivan-kanis: what does (apropos "receive" :usocket) tell you? 20:46:25 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:46:48 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:11 ; No value 20:47:50 ivan-kanis: how are you trying to use the file that you've pasted? 20:48:04 ivan-kanis: are you maybe trying to compile it? 20:48:27 H4ns: i am mostly messing with the REPL 20:48:40 ivan-kanis: so you are pasting one form after the other into the repl? 20:49:01 H4ns: i am using slime to eval each form 20:49:37 to me, it seems as if usocket has not been loaded, really. 20:50:08 but then, does (apropos "listen" :usocket) return you something? 20:50:21 H4ns: (usocket:socket-listen would crap out 20:50:33 "crap out", what's that? 20:50:51 H4ns: it would tell me the function doesn't exist 20:51:02 ivan-kanis: right. so usocket ain't loaded. 20:51:33 ? but it works 20:51:34 ivan-kanis: please start your sbcl afresh, then type (ql:quickload :usocket), then append the complete transcript to your paste. 20:51:42 zmv [~zmv@187.38.16.11] has joined #lisp 20:51:58 H4ns: ok 20:55:07 H4ns: here you go http://paste.lisp.org/display/125974 20:56:16 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:56:51 sbcl 1.0.40? i'm not saying that this is the problem, but it could well be. 20:57:11 OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 20:57:30 please uninstall all common lisp related debian packages and only use the tarball (you installed that, right) and whatever you install with quicklisp or manually. 20:57:45 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-gaywotfdaklsoboy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:05 i've just verified that sbcl 1.0.51 has no problems loading usocket with quicklisp and then has usocket:socket-receive defined. 20:58:38 H4ns: thanks, i will fix my environment 20:59:08 ivan-kanis: please :) - i'm sure that you'll have a better experience when you've got rid of debians common-lisp stuff. 20:59:31 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:01:02 yeah I am purging the bastards 21:01:19 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-133.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:07:51 bleh sbcl 1.0.53 install.sh is broken, it's not my day 21:07:56 i'll try clozure 21:08:07 :/ 21:10:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189-94-24-191.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:12:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-208-170.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:42 Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.216.158] has joined #lisp 21:15:27 Bahman [~user@2.146.44.190] has joined #lisp 21:15:31 Hi all! 21:16:07 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189-94-24-191.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:16:40 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:17:46 Hi Bahman 21:18:03 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:18:08 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 21:22:11 is anyone aware of a ruby parser written in cl? 21:23:19 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@89.83.137.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:26:06 -!- hba_ [~hba@187.171.207.79] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:26:42 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:42 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-cghbqnwkwekclckq] has joined #lisp 21:27:38 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 21:28:42 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Client Quit] 21:28:46 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 21:28:54 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 21:29:37 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-035-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:30:36 -!- Bahman [~user@2.146.44.190] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:48 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.83.15.126] has joined #lisp 21:31:42 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:38:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:38:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.83.15.126] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:28 -!- hugod [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:44:55 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.217.7.212] has joined #lisp 21:46:04 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:46:44 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:46:47 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:46:56 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:31 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:48:40 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-153-133.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:48:44 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:49:01 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:10 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 21:52:11 -!- nialo` [~nialo@ool-182d5684.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:25 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:53:58 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-148-60.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:55:11 H4ns: I'm curious. What would you be wanting with a Ruby parser written in CL? 21:55:35 gigamonkey: i have a mountain of ruby code to clean up. 21:56:02 doesn't ruby provide a ruby parser? 21:56:21 hi, in sbcl, how do I see size of an object in bytes? 21:56:57 H4ns: Ah. 21:57:17 nikodemus: it does, and it even seems to parse to "s-expressions", but it does not provide a parse tree that relates to the input file positions. 21:58:27 acml [~user@213.153.146.105] has joined #lisp 21:59:24 puchacz: what type of object? many are composed of links, not held in a single chunk 21:59:29 ah 21:59:29 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@ABordeaux-256-1-98-74.w90-11.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 21:59:30 spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:15 Phodus: I want to answer this question: if I removed all pointers to this object, how much memory I would save. Say I have something in web session. 22:01:28 sorry, Phoodus 22:02:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:02:47 puchanz: not conveniently right now, but: a cons is 2 words, a structure is 2 words + one word per slot rounded up to an even number, a standard instance is um.. 6? words plus word per slot rounded up, vectors are two words plus whatever the natural size of the specialized type of the element type is x lenght 22:03:02 that's a surprisingly difficult question to answer in the general case. You can just allocate a couple MB worth of objects and compare ROOM printouts. 22:03:34 ubuntu [~ubuntu@dyndsl-085-016-058-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has joined #lisp 22:03:36 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:03:41 saschakb [~saschakb@p4FEA0705.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 22:04:28 pkhuong, though now that we have map-root we could add support for looking into sizetab to sb-introspect 22:04:55 nikodemus: but then we get into issues of determining ownership 22:05:22 pkhuong: the user can make that call thanks to map-root 22:05:48 we'd only provide the shallow size and the means to follow pointers 22:05:49 higgs-boson 22:05:55 if the user is able to make that call, they probably don't need sizetab and map-root either. 22:06:32 automation is never to be underestimated 22:07:22 but yeah, alloction and studying room tends to yield a good picture and requires less wizardry 22:07:49 pkhuong, yes, I forgot about room - thx 22:08:01 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:09:22 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:10:42 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip98-182-19-91.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:12:36 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:56 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.216.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:15 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:20 Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.216.158] has joined #lisp 22:15:58 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:59 k9quaint [~k9quaint@c-50-131-165-108.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:45 -!- hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:21:42 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:21:51 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 22:23:40 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:27:02 can someone help me with a quicklisp install problem? https://gist.github.com/1379457 22:27:17 I'm not sure what to make of that error 22:27:28 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:36 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:28:47 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:28:48 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 22:29:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:29:13 spike2251: what did you type? 22:30:13 -!- OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:06 OliverUv_ [~gandhi@195.159.235.178] has joined #lisp 22:32:39 (ql:quickload "portable-sockets") 22:32:52 spike2251: I don't think it can be loaded separately from gbbopen. gbbopen has a wacky system for loading stuff. 22:32:55 spike2251: what is "portable-sockets"? where did you get that name from? 22:32:59 ah. ok. 22:33:25 spike2251: if you're looking for a portable socket library and not portable-sockets specifically, usocket certainly works on its own. 22:33:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:07 Xach, ah thanks for the suggestion. Also, I loaded gbbopen first, then portable-sockets, and that worked, thanks for the suggestion. 22:34:39 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-135-22.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:53 so usocket is the standard socket library that most people use? 22:35:48 iolib has similar functionality, no? 22:37:33 i think the jury is still out on the portable socket layer 22:37:56 out of iolib and usocket, which has better documentation? 22:37:56 iolib and usocket are clear contenders 22:37:57 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.216.158] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:38:34 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 22:39:33 spike2251: if the jury isn't out yet, it generally means that both libraries are a sane choice, i think some iolib devs are on #lisp, don't know about usocket 22:40:22 spike2251: thing is, both of these libraries will likely live on for some time, lisp libraries don't die off as quickly as libraries in other languages 22:40:25 well I'm using clozure, and looks like both of those work pretty well under clozure, right? 22:41:17 Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.227.216.158] has joined #lisp 22:41:31 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-35-219-5.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:48 Another option is to use ccl's native socket calls, which are fairly straightforward. 22:42:00 rme: yeah. lock him in. 22:42:10 but non-portable, i'd go for a library 22:42:25 -!- Shaftoe_ [~memet@69-165-143-175.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 22:42:32 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:47 Just sayin. :-) 22:42:51 spike2251: usocket is more portable and used by many other popular libraries. 22:42:53 spike2251: if you have no specific requirements and can't pick, skip over the api of both and see which one looks sane 22:43:03 spike2251: iolilb is more full featured and technically advanced. 22:43:44 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-222-161.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43:44 madnificent: thank you for your suggestions, I will definitely have to try and get a better understanding of both libraries 22:44:16 spike2251: value H4ns's advise higher than mine, he knows more 22:44:35 H4ns: in what sense is usocket more portable? (not trying to argue, trying to get informed) 22:44:48 madnificent: portable to more implementations. 22:45:22 ah, i hadn't noticed! 22:47:26 spike2251: usocket works well with ccl; you'd be fine with that. 22:51:09 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 22:53:03 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3D91.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:31 I was just looking at teepeedee2, trying to find out what socket library he used in making it so fast, and I actually can't find any socket library in the .asd file. Does it use native sbcl socket calls or something? I'm a real lisp noob, but I would like to understand what techniques he used in making his framework so fast. 22:54:00 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:54:47 I do wonder, though, if the popularity of portability libraries like usocket provides a negative incentive for implementations to provide good, e.g., socket interfaces themselves. "Portable" and "good enough" are probably more valuable to users, I guess. 22:55:08 urandom__ [~user@p548A3D91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:25 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:57:47 IMO it would be better if implementors limited themeselves to the CL standard and worked together on those libraries 22:59:50 If SBCL had a good socket and i/o multiplexing system, I would happily use it instead of a library. 23:00:12 The socket interface is awful and the multiplexing system is ancient. 23:00:45 Xach: so what is your preference for package naming to strike a balance between simple names and avoiding name conflicts? 23:00:56 I know you hate com.gigamonkeys.whatever. 23:01:31 deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 23:03:13 oconnore [~Eric@c-24-128-208-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:20 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:42 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 23:07:05 I was trying to go through an iolib tutorial and I got stuck, details are here: https://gist.github.com/1379507 if anyone could help 23:13:04 -!- acml [~user@213.153.146.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:13:05 that's odd 23:13:37 what OS are you using ? 23:14:28 mac (Darwin Kernel Version 11.2.0: Tue Aug 9 20:54:00 PDT 2011; root:xnu-1699.24.8~1/RELEASE_X86_64 x86_64) 23:17:51 -!- ubuntu [~ubuntu@dyndsl-085-016-058-224.ewe-ip-backbone.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:55 gigamonkey: fairly arbitrary names, at the moment 23:30:41 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:33:50 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 23:33:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:36:13 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:10 wol [~wol@67.174.222.215] has joined #lisp 23:43:52 -!- superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-177.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:44:07 -!- spike2251 [~user@c-24-91-219-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:46 superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-58.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:13 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:17 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]