00:00:27 madnificent: an easier way to set up source translations if e.g. you get a binary of sbcl separately from the sources 00:00:46 oh cool. was it complex to write? 00:01:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:01:49 or perhaps better, yet similar, was it complex to figure out where you needed to be in sbcl's sources to figure out how to patch 00:02:14 http://xach.com/tmp/sbcl-patch.txt 00:02:28 I asked the list and Kryztof told me where to look. 00:03:14 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.20/20110803131630]] 00:04:07 doesn't seem to be overly complex. congrats! 00:04:48 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 00:08:22 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:08:37 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 00:10:10 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@65-125-135-157.dia.static.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:10:46 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:11:13 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 00:15:56 -!- srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:17:01 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:44 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:18:37 lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 00:18:45 Hey guys 00:18:46 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 00:20:25 I hava a huge problem that has been nagging me for a couple of hours 00:20:26 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125870 00:20:44 I'm trying to implement RSA in Lisp 00:21:01 Currently I am working on the prime number generation 00:21:18 mrtest is a probabilistic primality test 00:22:16 It should be working properly. And the function gen-prime should return a prime of bit-length "length" 00:22:49 From what I understand my functions are correct, but gen-prime from time-to-time still return numbers that are not prime 00:23:07 that has some old school stuff. where'd you copy it from? 00:23:32 Oh, are you refering to the big-random part? 00:23:37 yeah 00:23:42 I thin it's from Norvig's site 00:23:44 20. is a relic from long ago 00:24:11 (sorry i can't help with the rest) 00:24:32 20. <- Does this mean anything special? 00:26:10 My problem is mostly with gen-prime. It acts as though it never even tests the primality, it just returns a random number 00:26:21 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:27:04 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:27:05 lakatos: 20. means "read 20 as a decimal regardless of *read-base*" 00:27:07 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:27:13 lakatos: it was more common when 8 was the default base 00:28:10 Wow... That IS old-school :) 00:29:22 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:29:24 I was of the impression that it meant something like 20.0 00:29:34 that is was a float 00:29:50 which did seem out of place, though 00:29:58 nope. it's an integer 00:33:14 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 00:35:04 in my experience, in most languages where it is valid syntax, it is a float. 00:35:59 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.115] has joined #lisp 00:36:22 (which makes sense since said languages don't have non-decimal read modes so "be decimal" is not useful whereas the point is used in float contexts) 00:42:28 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 00:44:24 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:48:06 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 00:49:12 INTEGER ::= [SIGN] {DECIMAL-DIGIT}+ DECIMAL-POINT | [SIGN] {DIGIT}+ 00:50:40 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:25 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:44 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 00:56:56 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:30 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:07:39 -!- lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:07:50 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953352c.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:15:35 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15:44 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:20:09 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:30:56 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:32:26 syddraf [~syddraf@129.59.115.2] has joined #lisp 01:33:08 Is it possible to retrieve the first character in a symbol name? 01:33:18 syddraf: sure. 01:33:28 syddraf: (char (symbol-name symbol) 0) is one way. 01:35:04 Thank you so very much. 01:35:08 That is for a symbol with a name of non-zero length. 01:35:13 I will buy you some chocolate if you desire. 01:36:22 Ok, the next time we meet, I will take you up on the offer. 01:39:01 pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:39:39 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:44:39 -!- dmiles_afk is now known as dmiles 01:44:40 -!- dmiles is now known as dmiles_afk 01:46:29 peterhil [~peterhil@xdsl-77-86-196-131.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 01:47:30 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 01:49:12 -!- typo_ [524de735@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.77.231.53] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 01:59:00 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:01:50 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:03:17 jiaxi [~jiaxi@61.148.56.138] has joined #lisp 02:03:51 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:06:14 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:07:36 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:07:36 chp [~chp@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has joined #lisp 02:08:46 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 02:09:48 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:11:14 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-106-227.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:02 jkary765 [~jkary@99-194-31-104.dyn.centurytel.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:28 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:20:23 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:20 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.64.105] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:23:03 -!- jkary765 [~jkary@99-194-31-104.dyn.centurytel.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:52 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:25:53 -!- chp [~chp@NYUFGA-WLESSAUTHCLIENTS-02.NATPOOL.NYU.EDU] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:26:38 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:29:58 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:31:37 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B278.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:11 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B4D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:37:27 drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 02:38:54 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:41:33 Ha. Mentioned CL while chatting after the local Python/Ruby users group and was asked if I used SBCL. 02:41:56 SBCL: so awesome even non-Lispers prefer it. 02:41:59 pinterface: where? 02:42:04 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:42:12 hehe 02:42:28 Iowa. 02:43:45 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 02:43:58 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:44:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-106-227.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:47:34 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-215.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:32 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:58:05 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:59:27 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-91-48.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:00:45 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:33 gensym`` [~user@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 03:11:00 -!- oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 03:11:14 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:11:28 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:11:31 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:12:11 oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has joined #lisp 03:13:20 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:13:51 -!- gensym` [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:15:56 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.189] has joined #lisp 03:16:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.189] has quit [Changing host] 03:16:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:17:16 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:17 ThomasH [468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 03:17:24 Greetings lispers 03:17:38 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:21:19 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-219-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:22:19 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:23:52 -!- syddraf [~syddraf@129.59.115.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:32:11 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 03:42:16 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:34 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 03:44:50 tommyxu [~tommy@203.156.232.20] has joined #lisp 03:46:33 -!- tommyxu [~tommy@203.156.232.20] has quit [Client Quit] 03:50:32 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:55:12 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:55:14 psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has joined #lisp 03:55:17 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has left #lisp 04:03:04 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:03:52 -!- el-maxo [~max@p57A57B17.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:04:33 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-iisrcaxsojcnhdvs] has joined #lisp 04:05:28 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:07:03 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8C452.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:08:35 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 04:08:43 mdh [~user@cpe-98-155-87-40.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:10:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:11:13 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:25 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 04:12:24 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:42 -!- ThomasH [468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 04:21:30 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 04:22:24 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 04:24:28 Is there a way in SBCL to emit machine assembly? I saw that some Lisps support(ed) that, but I didn't see it in the SBCL manual (and I don't know enough of SBCL internals to figure out exactly where to look). 04:25:00 IE, (assembly "mov eax, edx") 04:28:23 pnathan: not that simple. You can define your own VOP, specifying an awful lot of information on what registers and what value types are acceptable, how to allocate and save registers and when they are free.. it's not unlike GCC extended inline assembly. 04:28:29 pnathan: (disassemble #'+)? 04:30:03 sykopomp: No, the other way. 04:30:34 akovalenko: Aw, man. 04:31:31 ako 04:31:58 akovalenko: Is there a reference, or should I just grub around in SBCL? (which file would have that info) 04:32:55 pnathan: no complete reference, but there were some examples on the Net (unfortunately, one that I instantly remember was described in russian :) 04:33:50 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:35:01 chp [~chp@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:15 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:37:40 Reason why I ask is I was thinking about what it would take to execute SBCL against raw hardware, ie, special registers or something 04:40:48 Does alexandria:switch not support multiple values in each clause? 04:40:51 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 04:41:58 pnathan: Almost no assembly should be required here. Raw memory access is easy in SBCL, and the hardware doesn't normally care whether you use eax or edx. 04:43:04 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:43:15 Yes, it's almost never needed, I know. :-) But say a new instruction comes out for the Intel and I want to code something up supporting it. Just as a hypothetical. 04:43:53 there's also an IN and a OUT instruction for reading/writing ports, IIRC. But that may have gone away since the 8086. 04:43:59 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:45:24 pnathan: gone away?.... hahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *coughcough* 04:45:48 Hey, I'm not up 100% on the 5 volumes of the IA32 spec, okay. :) 04:46:17 akovalen` [~anton@95.72.168.38] has joined #lisp 04:46:50 I remember quite recently (okay, a decade ago) having PIO hardware, so :D 04:47:33 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.173.229] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:49:05 NOPE. Still there. 04:49:06 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:49:17 Even in 64-bit mode. 04:50:15 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has joined #lisp 04:50:16 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has quit [Changing host] 04:50:16 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:58:41 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:00:51 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:01:16 sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399486.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:01:34 -!- sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399486.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:33 -!- ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Quit: quit] 05:05:59 Kron [~Kron@69.166.21.48] has joined #lisp 05:06:15 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:06:25 -!- Kron is now known as Guest63072 05:07:10 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.101.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:08:21 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:50 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:08:54 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.191.0.232] has joined #lisp 05:09:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.189] has joined #lisp 05:09:31 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.13.189] has quit [Changing host] 05:09:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:13:04 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.191.0.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:19:52 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:35 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:26:10 superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:30:16 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:31:45 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:33:29 hi 05:33:37 hi 05:33:44 i dont get enough time to learn lisp :( 05:34:00 marsell [~marsell@maslip.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:54 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:37:13 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.48] has joined #lisp 05:37:15 cffi-sbcl.lisp -- (define-mem-accessors ... (:long sb-sys:signed-sap-ref-WORD) ...) ;; HATE 05:37:39 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 05:38:10 gko [~gko@42-74-178-251.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:32 -!- marsell [~marsell@maslip.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:40:16 -!- Guest63072 [~Kron@69.166.21.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:54 luis: the right way to get sizeof(long) is (sb-alien:alien-size long). As of the SAP accessor, there must be either some uglyness like #.(find-symbol (format nil "SIGNED-SAP-REF-~D" (sb-alien:alien-size long)) :SB-SYS), or some other ugliness, like special-casing on sizeof(long)==32. 05:41:45 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:42:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:43:05 -!- chp [~chp@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:44:51 marsell [~marsell@maslip.lnk.telstra.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:57 -!- Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:07 -!- boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:50:04 H4ns [5b3d4c76@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.76.118] has joined #lisp 05:57:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.39.4] has joined #lisp 05:57:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.39.4] has quit [Changing host] 05:57:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:58:04 Saeren [~saeren@mail.skepsi.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:00 chp [~chp@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:19 -!- Hypah [~Hypah@c-71-205-17-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:00:30 bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:34 Hypah [~Hypah@c-71-205-17-71.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:35 -!- chp [~chp@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 06:01:50 boyscared [~bm3719@muze.x.rootbsd.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:53 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:16 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has joined #lisp 06:02:16 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has quit [Changing host] 06:02:16 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 06:07:03 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.48] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 06:07:26 -!- Ober [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:10:59 -!- pnq [~nick@AC834264.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:12:12 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 06:17:31 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 06:19:26 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:23:32 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:55 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:25:33 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:28:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:28:47 Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.208.4.137] has joined #lisp 06:28:54 tiglog [~topeak@123.114.123.210] has joined #lisp 06:33:54 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:36:14 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:39:10 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:37 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 06:40:33 -!- tiglog [~topeak@123.114.123.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:40:55 tiglog [~topeak@123.114.123.210] has joined #lisp 06:42:00 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-89-21.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 06:43:26 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-255-43.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:44:53 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 06:45:11 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:46:33 -!- chenbing` [~user@125.118.7.72] has left #lisp 06:46:36 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-89-21.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 06:46:49 chenbing` [~user@125.118.7.72] has joined #lisp 06:46:49 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 06:47:19 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:49:14 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-iisrcaxsojcnhdvs] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:43 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-89-21.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 06:49:54 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:50:47 lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has joined #lisp 06:51:10 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-89-21.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Client Quit] 06:51:26 I need a way to calculate the square root of number the order of 2^512 06:51:30 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:51:36 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 06:51:54 The built in sqrt is not cut out for this job. Any recommendations? 06:53:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:54:57 bi2one [~user@125.129.20.246] has joined #lisp 06:56:41 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:54 -!- tiglog [~topeak@123.114.123.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:58:15 tiglog [~topeak@123.114.123.210] has joined #lisp 06:58:54 -!- tiglog is now known as topeak 06:59:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.62.1] has joined #lisp 06:59:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.62.1] has quit [Changing host] 06:59:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:02:15 ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 07:06:08 lakatos: do bindings exist for bc(1)? It might be slower but that seems to work 07:07:16 hmm actually bc is not a library but an executable, which embeds its own bignum math 07:07:38 which it doesn't isolate in a library either 07:08:25 lakatos: (sqrt (expt 2 512)) => 115792089237316195423570985008687907853269984665640564039457584007913129639936 on ccl 07:08:31 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-164.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:34 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-111-231.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:08:41 Well, obviosly that is not a problem 07:09:20 hm... strange 07:09:47 Yeah, I guess I'll switch from sbcl to ccl then 07:11:47 I also was getting an infinity on ECL 07:12:09 (which uses C though, but with a custom math lib on top of it) 07:12:19 and GMP 07:13:28 -!- nicdev_` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:16 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-215.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:16:26 I was thinking of using a scientific library, like GSLL, but was having a hard time getting it up and running 07:16:37 ccl seems to work fine 07:16:44 So I guess my problem is solved 07:16:56 thanks H4ns for pointing that out :) 07:19:01 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:25 cool. :) 07:20:51 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.123.210] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21:17 Is there any way to macroexpand a compiler macro? 07:22:57 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:23:29 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:23:51 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-slknsrbqcujarmrm] has joined #lisp 07:23:51 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-slknsrbqcujarmrm] has quit [Changing host] 07:23:51 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:24:39 nvm, got it 07:26:17 who wrote static-vectors? 07:27:12 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:27:34 -!- lakatos [~lakatos@c3.uaic.ro] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:48 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:27:56 -!- cfy is now known as iGentoo 07:28:34 -!- iGentoo is now known as cfy 07:29:32 X-Scale` [email@2001:5c0:1000:b::9eff] has joined #lisp 07:29:47 -!- gko [~gko@42-74-178-251.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:29:58 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 07:30:04 gko [~gko@42-74-178-251.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:38 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:57 -!- marsell [~marsell@maslip.lnk.telstra.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:33:17 so should sbcl --script foo.lisp work as if the contents of foo.lisp were entered into the sbcl repl? 07:33:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:35:01 in what sense? 07:35:01 (sqrt (coerce (expt 2 512) 'double-float)) 07:35:02 1.157920892373162d77 07:36:50 kanru: what were you expecting? 07:36:59 oudeis [~oudeis@62.219.152.214] has joined #lisp 07:37:08 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:39:15 lakatos asked about (sqrt (expt 2 512)) would signal error in sbcl, actually I got FLOATING-POINT-OVERFLOW 07:39:46 but if you coerce it first, no error signaled 07:40:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:40:53 *Ralith* gets #.SB-EXT:SINGLE-FLOAT-POSITIVE-INFINITY 07:41:28 good morning 07:44:26 morning 07:47:33 good morning 07:50:23 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ulxotikqpkimadge] has joined #lisp 07:52:22 Farzad_ [~root@46.225.110.13] has joined #lisp 07:54:24 hi everyone, is there a way to tell asdf to load every .lisp file in a specific directory in a defsystem form? 07:56:31 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 07:57:37 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:59:09 Farzad_: not directly, but you could try using a reader macro in the .asd file to create the system definition from the files in that specific directory. 08:00:01 marsell [~marsell@120.18.250.25] has joined #lisp 08:00:13 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:01:21 Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.229.209] has joined #lisp 08:02:02 Whitesquall [~notwhites@213.87.130.8] has joined #lisp 08:02:56 thanks H4ns 08:03:25 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.208.4.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:04:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:08:10 -!- stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:11:44 seems i can't use paste.lisp.org is it me or the site is buggy? when i click "submit paste" nothing happens. :/ 08:16:49 well can someone tell me why this macro's params get messed up? i need master-page, header and menu to be &key params but i guess it doesnt work the way i expect it to: http://yourpaste.net/9717/defmacro 08:17:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.50.30] has joined #lisp 08:17:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.50.30] has quit [Changing host] 08:17:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:17:40 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:18:14 Farzad_: if you had a button "submit paste" then apparently the site works, right? 08:18:33 Farzad_: and looking at paste.lisp.org, there are two of your pastes 08:18:41 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-naxlckzemtrydttl] has joined #lisp 08:18:41 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-naxlckzemtrydttl] has quit [Changing host] 08:18:41 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:18:58 yes but all i get after clicking that button is an empty page is this usual? 08:19:02 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:19:27 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@213.87.130.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:19:31 Farzad_: it probably should not be. 08:20:48 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-99-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:20:48 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-99-107.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:20:48 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:20:50 could you test http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp for me plz? 08:20:57 Farzad_: anyway, you should probably give the full macro definition, because as it is now it is missing stuff 08:21:09 ok w8 a sec 08:21:44 Farzad_: don't create new pastes, annotate your previous ones 08:21:54 Farzad_: like this one: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125873 08:22:48 sry, did it already, http://paste.lisp.org/display/125874 08:24:32 how do you put my name in front of your message? new to xchat btw. 08:24:35 Farzad_: so, now we only need the description of what you expected to get and what you got 08:24:58 Farzad_: type a few letters of the nick and press tab 08:25:18 the macro compiles fine but this wont: (setup-page (index (:header ((render-login-info-form)))) 08:25:18 (render-login-form)) 08:25:23 pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:06 says i need to supply more params 08:26:12 Farzad_: as i said, put the failing stuff in the paste (by annotating) 08:26:56 Farzad_: well, of course, you have too many parens in your macro use 08:27:17 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 08:27:51 can u refine that for me? i have no idea whats wrong 08:27:53 Farzad_: but to find the cause, you should write the code that exhibits the error. in your case, try using MACROEXPAND 08:28:10 Farzad_: or MACROEXPAND-1 08:30:14 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:30:39 kiuma [~kiuma@170.252.72.61] has joined #lisp 08:33:12 Farzad_: have you read any introductory material on Common Lisp? 08:33:22 jdz, check this now: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125874 08:33:38 yes i have 08:34:38 Farzad_: so that's a different problem 08:35:56 could you paste a simple macro with required, &key and &body params? maybe i could understands whats wrong here? 08:36:18 good morning everyone 08:36:29 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:36:34 btw its fine as long as &key param is only 1 08:36:37 Farzad_: everything is ok with your macro argument list 08:36:52 Blkt, morning 08:37:09 Farzad_: what do you mean by "&key param is only 1"? 08:37:49 i mean if its just master-page it works but when i add others, it gives me warnings 08:38:42 Farzad_: well, what the warning says: one of your functions in the body is called with one argument, but wants 3 08:38:54 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62.219.152.214] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:39:39 Farzad_: paste.lisp.org is broken. 08:39:55 Farzad_: you need to manually copy and paste your url. the automatic posting does not work. 08:42:49 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.229.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:43:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:43:06 ok, well got it fixed, had misplaced a paran in the macro definition... silly me :P 08:45:27 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-148-222.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:50:44 can someone check this out plz? http://paste.lisp.org/display/125876 08:51:18 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xiqoujhzuwihovjm] has joined #lisp 08:56:01 Farzad_: the html generation forms (i.e (:p ...)) are not functions. with-html-output* parses its body to find them and transforms them into code. with-html-output* operates at compile time. 08:56:49 Farzad_: thus, there is no runtime information that with-html-output* has been "called" - in fact, it is not "called", but expanded at compile time. 08:57:26 H4ns, so for anything dynamic i will need to use that again? 08:57:58 Farzad_: you'll need to use it whenever you want to generate html with it. 08:59:37 so (:p *username*) for example wont work, i need to do (with-html* .... (:p (write-string *username*))) right? 08:59:45 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:03 -!- X-Scale` [email@2001:5c0:1000:b::9eff] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:57 Farzad_: as i said, :p is not a function, so it will not work except when it is used in the body of a with-html* form. 09:01:02 Farzad_: kAUTkAS 09:01:15 wolfpython [~walter@58.212.92.186] has joined #lisp 09:01:28 jdz, what was that? 09:01:47 Farzad_: nuthin' 09:01:50 Farzad_: wrong window 09:02:36 so what about write-string? why cant i use just *username* instead? i dont get it :P 09:03:31 Farzad_: with-html* does not render the return value of functions that are called by its body automatically. 09:03:33 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:05:53 ok, thanks, is there any code that i could use as a reference on how to use hunchentoot to make websites? something serious i could actually learn the proper way of doing things? 09:06:34 right now i feel like i'm reinventing wheels :D 09:10:45 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:11:50 Farzad_: http://codesearch.google.com/#search/&q=with-html-output%20file:.*%5C.lisp$&type=cs 09:12:49 H4ns, thanks again :) 09:13:47 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 09:19:07 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:20:05 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:22:35 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-qdzofbahqlaaaiuf] has joined #lisp 09:22:35 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-qdzofbahqlaaaiuf] has quit [Changing host] 09:22:35 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 09:25:40 grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has joined #lisp 09:25:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.3.176] has joined #lisp 09:25:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.3.176] has quit [Changing host] 09:25:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:27:23 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:31:02 kennyd [~kennyd@93-142-33-240.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:32:10 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 09:33:28 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:34:13 -!- bi2one [~user@125.129.20.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:02 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:36:56 pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:36:56 -!- Farzad_ [~root@46.225.110.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:37:49 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-uzuovquwwmyeovfs] has joined #lisp 09:38:07 -!- msponge [~msponge@31-34-191.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 09:40:38 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 09:41:40 Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.30.38] has joined #lisp 09:43:14 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.30.38] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:17 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:43:30 Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.30.38] has joined #lisp 09:46:24 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:46:27 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 09:47:19 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-bzjpdbgplztalamn] has joined #lisp 09:51:42 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:52:04 nonduality [~alex@t193-024.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 09:52:24 rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 09:52:36 -!- nonduality [~alex@t193-024.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Client Quit] 09:53:39 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:53:53 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:55:44 -!- jiaxi [~jiaxi@61.148.56.138] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:17 Hm, Hunchentoot changed its default behaviour in that it now serves the /www directory of its source folder. It looks like a folder dispatcher though *dispatch-table* contains no new entry. As a result, handlers defined by define-easy-handler do not work anymore. Is there any known way to fix that? 09:56:19 -!- wolfpython [~walter@58.212.92.186] has quit [Quit: ] 09:57:03 rosario: Use 'easy-acceptor instead of 'acceptor 09:58:15 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:59:47 -!- gko [~gko@42-74-178-251.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:00:05 daimrod: Ok, thanks, but I get an server error now: The function foo::DEFAULT-DISPATCHER is undefined. 10:00:45 Ok, my fault 10:00:58 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 10:01:19 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-jghvusjbpmfjqiav] has joined #lisp 10:01:33 -!- chenbing` [~user@125.118.7.72] has left #lisp 10:01:41 Thanks daimrod, it works again. 10:02:35 daniel__2 [~daniel@p5B326C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:38 rosario: no problem, I think the documentation should be updated soon. 10:02:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:03:08 nonduality [~alex@t193-024.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:03:26 rosario: the updated documentation is available in the www/ directory. also check out the recent entries in the tbnl-devel mailing lists, there have been some posts around the 1.2 API changes 10:04:31 Thanks, I will. 10:05:27 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p508299B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:08:14 -!- rosario [~user@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:09:32 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 10:10:15 -!- nonduality [~alex@t193-024.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:11:36 nonduality [~alex@t193-024.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 10:15:41 snearch [~snearch@g231232063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:17:20 S1am [~guest@eth-209.20-homell.natm.ru] has joined #lisp 10:25:44 chenbing [~user@125.118.7.72] has joined #lisp 10:27:16 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.3.115] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:29:38 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has joined #lisp 10:31:15 ljosa [~ljosa@pool-98-110-200-174.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:32:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.35.97] has joined #lisp 10:32:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.35.97] has quit [Changing host] 10:32:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:38:31 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:38:50 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:42:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:43:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:46:17 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:49:41 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 10:51:32 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:52:57 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:53:02 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 10:56:33 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 10:57:39 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 11:00:37 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:42 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 11:08:59 Bahman [~user@2.146.44.190] has joined #lisp 11:09:07 Hi all! 11:10:07 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:14:58 hello 11:19:02 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:22:16 Houl [~Miranda@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 11:25:01 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ulxotikqpkimadge] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:25:03 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 11:26:38 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 11:27:59 Joreji [~thomas@83-164.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 11:28:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.61.117] has joined #lisp 11:28:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.61.117] has quit [Changing host] 11:28:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:29:09 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:32:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:35:12 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:39 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 11:40:14 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 11:42:35 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-223-150.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:02 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-142-33-240.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:02 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:50:20 superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:45 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.253] has joined #lisp 11:51:10 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:51:12 hi 11:56:06 -!- H4ns [5b3d4c76@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.76.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:00:34 is a symbol an s-expression in lisp-terminology? 12:01:44 or are only lists sexps? 12:01:52 no 12:01:57 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/html/cltl/clm/node27.html#SECTION00630000000000000000 12:02:30 -!- nonduality [~alex@t193-024.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:03:07 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:03:45 C-Keen: thanks 12:03:45 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:04:11 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:07:45 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:09:31 gensym: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=s-expression 12:10:11 jdz: The wiki-page (in german) was not clear about that... 12:10:56 gensym: then have you tried the english version? 12:11:02 Xach: thanks a lot for the ql local-projects change ... 12:12:00 jdz: yes, later - sorry for stupidity 12:13:55 (i wonder which one is the german version of the wiki page on s-expressions, because at least for me there is no german version in the langage list for english version) 12:14:38 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.242.86] has joined #lisp 12:14:41 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:16:01 it was the page about lisp 12:17:00 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 12:18:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:20:19 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:21:23 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:23 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:23 -!- billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:23 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:23 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xiqoujhzuwihovjm] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- prip [~foo@host143-123-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.27.202] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- gemelen [~shelta@gemelen.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:25 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:21:55 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xiqoujhzuwihovjm] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 prip [~foo@host143-123-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 cnl [~cnl@95.106.27.202] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 gemelen [~shelta@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:00 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:01 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Excess Flood] 12:25:30 sacho [~sacho@90-154-148-222.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 12:25:51 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 12:26:39 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-148-222.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:05 sacho [~sacho@90-154-148-222.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 12:27:30 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:28:17 thus, "no" is the answer to "are only lists sexps" ? 12:28:36 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:29:09 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:30:07 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:35:43 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.253] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:35:59 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.242.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:36:31 Houl: yes 12:37:00 Houl: sexp is either an atom, or a list of atoms. end of story. 12:37:04 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.253] has joined #lisp 12:37:11 ok 12:38:06 nicdev_` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:40:09 -!- ljosa [~ljosa@pool-98-110-200-174.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ljosa] 12:41:11 ljosa [~ljosa@pool-98-110-200-174.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:32 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 12:44:14 H4ns [55b34530@gateway/web/freenode/ip.85.179.69.48] has joined #lisp 12:45:21 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-80.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 12:46:39 -!- nicdev_` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:46:40 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-39-164.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:47:11 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:47:52 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 12:49:51 iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:55 nonduality [~alex@t197-086.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 12:53:21 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:56:24 flip214: no problem. when the answer to a simple question like yours is awkward, there's a problem. 12:57:04 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 12:58:32 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:02:39 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5bdf00-15.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 13:03:25 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:04:16 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:40 -!- ignas 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[~snearch@g231232063.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 13:43:57 nikodemus_: i hope your chart doesn't lead people to think "That means I should declare everything a fixnum!" 13:43:58 gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-177.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:59 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:12 um, yeah 13:44:14 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:14 -!- Bahman [~user@2.146.44.190] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:14 -!- kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-jghvusjbpmfjqiav] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:14 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:14 -!- mdh [~user@cpe-98-155-87-40.san.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:14 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:14 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@server.199.148.itcsa.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:16 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:16 -!- maxm---- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:16 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:16 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:16 -!- setheus [~setheus@72.190.66.192] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:16 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:16 -!- sbryant [~freenode@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:44:16 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 13:44:18 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:36 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:44:36 *Xach* loves the modular arithmetic but never declares anything a fixnum ever 13:44:36 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:44:46 especially as it's easy to still have generic+ being used despite declaring things as fixnums 13:45:16 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 13:45:34 i use fixnums a lot, but they're mostly vector indexes so they're really going to be always fixnums 13:46:13 Do you declare them fixnum, or do you have a type for it? 13:46:24 it depends 13:46:37 When I want to declare indexes, I usually deftype and the type is roughly "non-negative fixnum" 13:46:54 whoa whoa whoa generic+ when things are declared as fixnums? 13:47:03 sb-int:index, alexandria:array-index alexandria:array-length are types i often use 13:47:12 *Xach* didn't know about those types 13:47:21 Kryztof: (+ x y z) 13:47:37 one inline fixnum addition, one generic+ 13:47:50 hm, ok 13:47:52 fair enough 13:47:59 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-80.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:48:23 Xach: but sometimes i pun -1 to mean something special, like indexing from the end of a vector, in which case i just use fixnum 13:48:24 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 Bahman [~user@2.146.44.190] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-jghvusjbpmfjqiav] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 mdh [~user@cpe-98-155-87-40.san.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 nanoc [~conanhome@server.199.148.itcsa.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 theBlackDragon [~dragon@77.109.98.120] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 maxm---- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 setheus [~setheus@72.190.66.192] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 sbryant [~freenode@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:24 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:30 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:48:49 Kryztof: also (* x y) gives you generic* 13:48:51 so, nikodemus_, what you should do now is a factor analysis of your data, treating inline, modular, and type as factors 13:49:04 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:17 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-80.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 13:49:17 Kryztof: do you have some students you could donate for the cause? 13:49:19 no fun just drawing graphs 13:49:28 this is for SCIENCE 13:50:13 where's your data? 13:50:14 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-223-150.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 13:50:45 on my other laptop, whose powercord i left home :/ 13:51:06 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 13:51:17 if you really want it, i can regenerate it from this one, though 13:51:30 but it isn't very interesting as of yet 13:51:33 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-177.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [] 13:51:40 nah 13:51:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:51:41 not yet 13:51:53 but when you generate more data, try to make a table with those categories in it 13:52:03 fair enough 13:52:11 nikodemus_: seeing the performance of bignum in there could've been interesting as well 13:53:07 madnificent: it's generic+[bbb], generic+[bbf], generic+[fbb], and generic+[fbf] 13:53:28 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.229.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:53:29 oh, thanks! great work 13:53:39 all for small bignums, though 13:54:51 also, to be fair those inline benchmarks should probably include a dummy full call 13:55:16 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:55:29 well, maybe not. the point is that they're inline, after all 13:56:37 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-77.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 13:57:01 indeed 13:57:39 -!- kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-jghvusjbpmfjqiav] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 13:57:54 -!- zyg [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 13:58:05 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-rwcfcnmlalklumvv] has joined #lisp 13:59:04 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@170.252.72.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:02:16 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:02:46 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 14:02:50 -!- nonduality [~alex@t197-086.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:05:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-164.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:05:44 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:50 G'morning all. 14:06:21 hi nyef 14:08:01 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 14:08:10 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:11:00 -!- chenbing [~user@125.118.7.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:04 tarmil [~user@business-178-48-18-229.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 14:15:23 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:17:19 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: 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[468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:44:11 Greetings lispers 14:45:59 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-duwzeykmbbtpljqk] has joined #lisp 14:45:59 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:34 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 14:47:09 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:48:10 *j_king* waves. 14:49:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.33] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:49:11 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:19 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.187.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:50:25 Joreji [~thomas@83-164.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:51:27 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:52:07 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-35-53-209.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:30 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:53:56 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:53:58 -!- Houl [~Miranda@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 14:56:29 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:53 -!- whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-imcngkgbzbtdsblr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:53 -!- incandenza [u726@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mnldqopmbfopmxxh] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:03 argh, wilbur clobbered my readtable globally. rude! 15:00:13 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.176] has joined #lisp 15:01:07 ganjahtronic [~ganjahtro@189.243.199.238] has joined #lisp 15:01:08 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:01:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:26 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 15:03:56 gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-177.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:38 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-xiqoujhzuwihovjm] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:06:24 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:25 oO wilbur_ 15:06:26 ? 15:06:39 the thing from ora lassila 15:06:43 Xach: are you trying to quicklispify that? 15:06:43 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 15:06:50 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-177.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:06:55 Xach: yeah, the ancient rdf toolkit 15:06:57 H4ns: i was looking into it. it loads. 15:07:05 Xach: nice! 15:07:15 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-128.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:07:29 whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-pcuyuxfhpkfegtig] has joined #lisp 15:07:33 after you load it, though, the readtable clobbering prevents other things from loading. 15:07:35 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.142.225] has joined #lisp 15:08:28 like xpath 15:09:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-164.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:11:10 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:11:11 whoever though global readtable modification was good? It seems like enabling per file is a much saner default 15:11:17 so how does one invoke a single lisp file? sbcl --script foo.lisp seems to not pull in ql. where as if I feed the contents of the file to repl it works fine 15:11:23 Xach: rdf? fun stuff. I'm working on an rdf project for the usgs. Franz has a cool triple store... 15:12:04 jaimef: when the "one" is me, i don't invoke a single lisp file. 15:12:22 jaimef: if i want a program that i can run from the command line, i usually use buildapp. 15:13:21 jaimef: i don't usually want that, though. usually i write systems that i load into my running session, and call the functions it defines from the repl. 15:13:30 jaimef: i guess that --script does not load your .sbclrc, so if you insist on "loading a single file", try to load your .sbclrc from that single file explicitly. 15:13:42 jaimef: but what xach says. 15:14:34 Brucio-12 [~Brucio-12@adsl-99-35-53-209.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:40 -!- Brucio-12 is now known as beslyrus 15:14:53 p8m: i don't really know anything about rdf or wilbur, but i thought it might be nice to add. 15:14:54 jaimef: sbcl --load foo.lisp might be what you're looking for 15:15:06 Xach: named-readtable-ify wilbur? 15:15:20 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:38 thanks. testing web frameworks 15:16:09 slyrus: someone is doing that at https://github.com/danlentz/templeton but I can't load it. 15:16:14 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:41 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-kfneyhjzkbnonzwl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:17:07 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-ntmeekjtkpnuwkau] has joined #lisp 15:17:34 -!- billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:17:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:17:54 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@128.113.215.153] has joined #lisp 15:17:59 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 15:18:25 Quadrescence_ [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:19:04 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:22 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:20:22 -!- Quadrescence_ is now known as Quadrescence 15:20:44 anyone ever daemonize lisp servers? 15:21:07 incandenza [u726@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-iaqmvevasxipsmzq] has joined #lisp 15:21:08 something that does not involve needing term io? 15:21:16 jaimef: I think it's more typical to use something like screen or tmux. I've seen a few daemonization hacks but I can't remember where. 15:21:59 *Xach* uses screen for wigflip.com and l1sp.org and related sites 15:22:51 .oO("must be able to take input from stdin and send output to stdout and errors to stderr to be a good unix app") 15:23:01 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:23:25 what about swank ? 15:23:29 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:23:33 um, daemons should redirect stdout and stderr to /dev/null to be a good unix app 15:23:46 daimrod: i use screen and swank together. 15:23:54 but CL isn't unix-only 15:23:57 yes, I daemonize a lisp app. 15:24:19 *Xach* lionizes a lisp app 15:24:42 wigflip.com is the best site on earth for lisp-powered motivational posters and lolcats! 15:24:51 the daemonization is done in a wrapper script, though, not in lisp itself (although I think it'd be better to move it in) 15:25:39 Xach: why do you use them together ? why not only swank ? 15:25:58 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-77.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 15:26:13 daimrod: swank does not do the same thing that screen does. 15:26:54 swank+screen are crazy useful. 15:27:16 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:20 Whitesqu_ [~notwhites@94.242.138.61] has joined #lisp 15:28:24 so replacing awk in a command like "tcpdump -Xx port 22 |awk '{print $NF}'" would not be a strong use of lisp I am guessing 15:28:40 um I usually use slime through an ssh session to connect to a remote swank, or without ssh if it's on a local machine, so I don't see what Screen can do. :( 15:29:11 daimrod: how do you start swank? 15:29:13 jaimef: Very bad idea. 15:29:38 jaimef: lisp usually takes much longer to start than awk 15:29:58 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-40.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:00 bobbysmith007: That's not my experience. 15:30:03 well specifically I am trying to see if it's a good fit for doing things in a chain of pipes 15:30:08 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-130-40.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:15 like perl/ruby/python 15:30:16 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.30.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:22 jaimef: That's not really how lisp is used. 15:30:23 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:30:27 fair enough, my lisp usually has everything under the sun loading too though :/ 15:30:33 ok 15:30:34 bobbysmith007: the difference from what I've seen is something like 0.005 for awk vs. 0.05 for lisp. 15:30:43 bobbysmith007: ah, well, loading things is very slow :) 15:30:57 bobbysmith007: starting a built lisp app isn't all that slow though. 15:31:44 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:52 sbcl "recently" (last 12 months or so) got even faster at it 15:32:11 fair enough, I am usually at something like 30 sec for a precompiled load, and 3min to compile the universe... but then again my usage case is primarily web apps and data munging, so I have not optimized at all for rapid start up. Good to know that it does work well for that. Ill try to stop with the misinformation 15:32:25 superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:29 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:31 bobbysmith007: precompiled meaning loading from fasls? 15:32:36 yes 15:32:47 yeah, sbcl is pretty slow at that. 15:32:52 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 15:33:00 by "built" i mean something saved with save-lisp-and-die. 15:33:56 Xach: I know that with cores, I can speed it up, but that tends to interfere with my development model, and make it difficult to be sure my co-developers have the same sets / versions of things that I do, so I just abandonded them a while back (other than for deploying websites) which do start up quite quickly 15:34:52 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 15:35:43 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:35:57 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 15:36:31 jaimef: I think you could use lisp pretty well in pipelines and things but it requires building up some tools to make it easier than it is now. 15:37:06 ok 15:37:23 jaimef: it wouldn't be a matter of loading arbitrary lisp files and libraries on demand all the time. right now that's just too slow most of the time and the current systems don't cater to it. 15:37:44 it's more a matter of "easy" vs "possible" 15:37:59 but it's good enough to change my shell to sbcl :P 15:38:00 xan_ [~xan@75.Red-95-122-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:18 I write system tools in Lisp all the time, but I call them from my slime repl, not from the shell. 15:39:16 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-yzjqcujqegcmlvcx] has joined #lisp 15:39:31 http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/7c588cdb91a10d4d is an interesting article that contrasts CL and unix approaches to similar problems. 15:40:01 jpop [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 15:40:02 jdz_ [~jdz@host148-107-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 15:40:24 Xach: good point 15:40:35 *jaimef* starts to see where emacs evolved from 15:41:12 hello. If I'm running a web server on a remote computer is it somehow possible to connect to it and debug and modify the running code, without restarting the server? 15:41:25 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:31 ignas [~ignas@85-206-22-190.static.zebra.lt] has joined #lisp 15:41:39 jaimef: The more comfortable you get with CL, the more you'll start treating the REPL as your interface to the rest of the OS. 15:41:44 jpop: Yes. I regularly deploy code that way. 15:42:01 how can you do that? 15:42:37 Xach: that's interesting (scripts). I was thinking of running a lisp instance continously and connecting bash scripts to it through a socket. the running image could then contain things like a lisp-based cron-tab as web. what do you think of such an approach? 15:42:39 ThomasH: ahh. thanks. yeah irb+emacs sort of had me see the repl as a simple "place to play" 15:42:53 say some condition is thrown on the web server, how can I connect to it and fix the probelm without restarting the server? 15:42:54 quickload sure makes this easier 15:43:19 Xach: also, i'm still interested to see the abstractions which you put in place to make scripting easier. i don't think i've seen them in the past. (doesn't matter if they're not cleaned up, it's just to get ideas) 15:43:20 jpop: i use (swank:create-server :port 4005) in my server startup scripts so that i can attach slime to the running process. 15:43:24 I use ssh. If I wanted to get fancy, I could use ssh to open a connection forwarder to enable using SLIME, but I mostly don't mess with the production server that way. 15:43:44 jpop: i also use tmux to run my servers, so i often just interact through the bare repl. 15:43:58 jaimef: yeah, irb is fun to toy with as well 15:44:31 H4ns interesting. so if the condition is thrown i can connect to swank or tmux and get the stack listed and available restarts, etc? 15:45:15 Mmm. I use screen, myself. 15:45:18 jpop: certainly so. you need to instruct your web server not to catch the errors (or use *debug-on-signals*). also, debugging threaded programs is often a bit painful. 15:45:24 Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.229.209] has joined #lisp 15:45:42 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:12 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-yzjqcujqegcmlvcx] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:46:28 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 15:47:27 ok nice. I'll read up on swank, so far I only used it locally with slime 15:47:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:47:30 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:47:46 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 15:47:48 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:50 jpop: the you'll want to know about M-x slime-connect, then that's about it. 15:48:01 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-wizwfeeqgsuvebxq] has joined #lisp 15:48:11 great, thanks :) 15:48:13 M-x zone 15:51:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.176] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:56:52 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.176] has joined #lisp 15:57:45 nonduality [~alex@t198-255.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 15:57:47 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 15:57:50 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:00:16 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111109112850]] 16:00:25 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:00:53 hydo [~cmoore@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:04 In CL, is there a way to flush and reload symbols for a given package? I'm connecting to a long running remote process with slime and in the repl I'm seeing functions still defined that I refactored out days ago. 16:03:05 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:03:48 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 16:04:02 or should i just not worry since, logic suggests, if I refactored correctly, they'll just stay around not bothering anyone? It's just worrysome in a geek-housecleaning sort of way. 16:04:04 the flushing should be a standard defun in lisps nowadays, i think 16:04:17 hydo: you can unintern the symbols away 16:04:17 hydo: not directly, no. 16:04:23 hydo: you could delete-package and reload the system. You can also restart the lisp image from scratch (those are the two methods I use most). You can also inspect each individual function/method and remove it 16:04:35 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:03 errr... fuction/method/symbol 16:05:04 hydo: i'd not worry. or restart the lisp. 16:05:51 nice, ok, I'm not, as such, doing anthing wrong. I'm trying to avoid reloading the image if I can help it. it's not taking up an inordinate amount of memory or anything. It's just the whole housecleaning thing. I think I can let this one go, or (delete-package like you said, bobby if I get all OCD about it. 16:06:02 Thanks for the help, everyone. I appreciate it. 16:06:17 -!- jdz [~jdz@host148-107-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:06:18 ahh fsck 16:06:23 you serious? sbcl.core? 16:07:12 jaimef: What, you've got one of those rogue processes that deletes files with names ending in ".core"? 16:07:23 yeah me 16:07:28 heh 16:07:33 ouch 16:07:58 rule of least surprise 16:08:38 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has joined #lisp 16:09:23 .oO(they must be from VMS and new to unix) 16:09:59 -!- McRibbit [~user@zaza11.ida.liu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:01 the sbcl folks 16:10:12 We inherited it from CMUCL. 16:10:27 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@jetalone.facefault.org] has joined #lisp 16:10:37 CMUCL started off running in Mach, if memory serves... Unless it didn't? 16:12:30 I thought spicelisp predated mach. 16:12:42 It might have. 16:13:06 What was the original OS for the spice project? 16:13:16 yes 16:13:20 Accent 16:13:26 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:13:31 which ran on the 16bit PERQ workstation. 16:13:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spice_Lisp 16:14:30 Okay, so plausibly a convention inherited from the pre-unix days. 16:16:16 -!- hydo [~cmoore@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:16:41 looks like cmucl's first platform target was freebsd. 16:16:45 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-duwzeykmbbtpljqk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:32 In a perfect world, everyone would use FreeBSD. 16:17:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:48 hah 16:17:55 hydo [~cmoore@c-71-227-138-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:10 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 16:18:15 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:18:25 *Fade* instantly suspects ThomasH is an agent provocateur from #scheme 16:18:52 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-fryociazjyzgyvdx] has joined #lisp 16:19:02 jdz [~jdz@host148-107-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:19:55 Heh, no. Many moons ago I ran exclusively on FreeBSD, resorting to Linux executables on the ABI when necessary. I got away with that for a long time. Grew accustomed to the stability and organization of FreeBSD. 16:20:46 Now, I've been reduced to Win7 because I rely on commercial software that is best supported on Win7. 16:22:59 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:24:42 I have a soft spot for OpenBSD as well. 16:25:11 soft spot 16:25:15 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-80.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:25:25 wait until a bsd is your religion and you one day give it up :P 16:25:53 I wish I could find some lisp angle to mention that I recently saw a freebsd server reboot due to hardware failure after 1900 days of uptime, but I can't. 16:26:07 :P 16:26:11 the car was empty? 16:26:43 I had a little dec apha that ran an early 2.0 kernel which hit 870 days uptime. 16:27:04 but that was only because it slipped through the cracks. literally under a raised floor. 16:27:25 heh 16:27:39 Fade: I just sent my DEC Alpha to be recycled last year. I almost went back for it, twice. 16:28:01 http://linbsd.org/rack.png the crap I run bsd/lisp on 16:28:05 I love alpha as an architecture. 16:28:32 yeah but off by ones still affected it like x86 16:28:37 I recently picked up a pretty big alpha server which I'm hoping to get the time to redeploy for sbcl hacks. 16:28:49 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-80.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 16:29:08 jaimef: That's awesome in a humorous sort of way. 16:29:17 jaimef: I have an original Onyx box, but no DC rail to light it up. 16:29:28 heh 16:29:35 also a tonne of Octane2's and a bunch of O2's. 16:29:38 acquired a lot more ultrasparcs since moving here 16:29:43 :-O 16:29:51 jaimef: You need to add some lisp machines to your collection. 16:30:01 being a developer on something like netbsd you get a lot of hand me downs 16:30:14 I have a nubus mac lisp card somewhere 16:30:19 if wife did not chunk it 16:30:28 off to work 16:30:47 reminds me. i need to get rid of the motorola powerstack and the ibm rt-pc that i'm _still_ carrying around with me. the only thing that i'll keep is the vax-4000/60 with the "us govt" marking and the vms with the nasa login banner. 16:31:04 nice 16:31:11 H4ns: what geo you in? 16:31:19 jaimef: berlin, germany. 16:33:23 gaidal_ [~gaidal@58.61.215.192] has joined #lisp 16:35:47 I have some stories to tell about FreeBSD's TCP implementation 16:35:58 sadly not as lisp related as one might expect them to be 16:36:00 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:36:04 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:36:16 -!- jdz [~jdz@host148-107-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:36:25 the tcp/ip implementation radically optimised for ftp? :) 16:36:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:37:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.10.114] has joined #lisp 16:37:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.10.114] has quit [Changing host] 16:37:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:38:41 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:38:51 let's just say that I didn't expect there to be sending pauses of five seconds when doing receive-window flow control 16:38:55 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-77.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:39:08 heh 16:39:14 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:14 (under certain circumstances, yadda yadda. Back to Lisp) 16:42:23 I was thinking of adding a file, say named version.lisp, with a changelog function like (defun changelog (&optional version) ...) that would return the specified entry or most recent by default. Also have a (readme) function. Would that be useful? Worth the trouble? 16:42:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:43:09 Adding this to my projects as standard procedure. 16:43:56 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:59 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 16:45:37 do you often have to check the version information for your own code? 16:45:40 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:59 it'd be more portable just to add appropriate version info to your system definition. 16:47:18 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:47:34 jdz [~jdz@host148-107-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:47:46 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:48:19
Xach: Is there a way to make QL load libraries without printing anything? 16:48:20 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 16:49:04 Fade: Thanks. The idea for these was more along the lines of if you use quicklisp to load the package, you could then just use the readme or changelog at the REPL to see what you've got. 16:49:37 tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:15 easyE [OUFtfSXT8a@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:43 well, I'd defer to Xach on the notion. 16:52:01 -!- nonduality [~alex@t198-255.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:52:15 with github causing a lot more README.* files to be defined, it may be useful. 16:52:22 Fade: I think there are other usage scenarios, but that was the first that came to mind. 16:52:40 HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5618f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:07 *beslyrus* waits for the hordes of beirc users to show up #beirc 16:53:15 dl: not yet 16:53:54 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-uzuovquwwmyeovfs] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:55:18 dl: use the make-broadcast-stream trick 16:55:56 ThomasH: I'd like to make that info easily available but I'm not sure about the mechanism yet. 16:56:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:35 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:57:07 -!- tarmil [~user@business-178-48-18-229.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:57:15 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:19 tarmil [~user@business-178-48-18-229.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 16:57:36 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:57:37 -!- H4ns [5ce7d1ff@gateway/web/freenode/ip.92.231.209.255] has quit [Quit: home] 16:59:34 -!- misoczki [~misoczki@2001:660:3013:3:222:19ff:fe24:d155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:59:36 Xach: Ok. For the README, I think something as simple as printing the README file if it exists or a message to the contrary would work. 16:59:38 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 17:00:07 Xach: For the changelog, I can think of a number of ways to approach it and none of them are that appealing. 17:00:56 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 17:01:07 ThomasH: a shrinking percentage of README files are plain text. 17:01:21 ThomasH: I see a lot of readme.md, readme.org, readme.mediawiki (ugh) these days 17:02:22 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:26 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Excess Flood] 17:02:29 Xach: Oh, no problem, just write a parser and formatter for each. ;-) 17:03:23 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 17:04:00 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 17:04:29 I think you just volunteered, ThomasH :) 17:05:16 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 17:05:31 Fade: That was running through my brain. I was just checking to see if quicklisp had any dependencies. 17:06:25 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:06:45 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:07:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:07:20 -!- ganjahtronic [~ganjahtro@189.243.199.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:17 Xach: Dealing with readme files/changelogs would probably go best in a quicklisp-ext package that was loaded after quicklisp and therefore could have dependencies. 17:08:49 ThomasH: the philosophy of quicklisp has so far been to do in advance what work can be done in advance. i wouldn't mind a large complex digester of readme files that produced plain text + an index. 17:08:50 ThomasH: I like your (readme) idea; iterate follows a similar path with display-iterate-clauses that made me wish other libraries followed a similar path 17:09:05 ThomasH: or HTML files + an index 17:09:19 I've got a TODO on the back-burner to make lisp-unit.lisp self-contained and loadable with extensions managed through ASDF/quicklisp. 17:09:20 ThomasH: did you see my work in that regard for scraping out documentation? 17:09:31 i didn't share the code, just the end result... 17:09:32 Xach: No, unaware of it. 17:09:42 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/UNOFFICIAL/docs/ 17:10:21 Involuntary [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:21 -!- Involuntary [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:28 Everything is converted as much as possible to html, the idea being that www.quicklisp.org//alexandria/ would lead you to the alexandria docs, etc. 17:11:41 Xach: I just wouldn't want to write the digester without the help of other packages. (I'm thinking meta-sexp here, but it applies in general) 17:12:00 Xach: Yeah, that's where my thinking was headed as well. 17:12:17 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:12:52 Right, yes. I used a whole mess of libraries to produce that much. As well as linux-specific run-program stuff. 17:13:02 I don't mind being non-portable to produce something portable. 17:14:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.176] has quit [Quit: Offline] 17:14:54 Xach: That docs link is great. We're kind of diverging, though. I'm still thinking of something accessible from the REPL. 17:15:02 Vivitron: I'll need to look at that. 17:15:16 ThomasH: it would be interesting to see how it could be ground into plain text. 17:16:50 Xach: Yes. Looking at your docs work, I should note that I spent a fair amount of time translating the lisp-unit docs to the github wiki. 17:17:00 Who is the bordeaux-threads wrangler? 17:17:22 *Xach* waves to fe[nl]ix 17:17:50 beach? 17:17:52 fe[nl]ix: would you consider adding a :description to bordeaux-threads.asd? 17:19:14 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:19:46 Xach: sure, what do you have in mind ? 17:20:14
fe[nl]ix: thanks! 17:20:15 Xach: Does something like the project wiki on github factor in here? 17:22:04 fe[nl]ix: Hmm, "Bordeaux Threads makes writing portable multi-threaded apps simple." perhaps 17:22:08 -!- jdz [~jdz@host148-107-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:35 ThomasH: not sure. are they hard to slurp down? 17:22:57 Xach: You can manage them with git like the code repository. 17:22:57 I am under the impression it's a matter of checking out a particular git repo and processing. 17:23:13 ThomasH: one of my goals for the doc stuff is also offline use. 17:23:27 Hack on the train with all the docs at hand. 17:24:38 Ugh, I just noticed that I'm still creating a lisp-unit-system in the ASDF file. I think I need to commit a change just for the ASDF file. 17:24:49 It needs to be corrected. 17:25:00 Xach: done 17:27:39 H4ns [5b3d4147@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.65.71] has joined #lisp 17:28:34 ganjahtronic [~ganjahtro@189.243.199.238] has joined #lisp 17:28:38 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:29:41 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:29:43 Xach: With n+1 ways to handle documentation, this issue is exploding. If I understand, you're thinking of using your local system to process the documentation into a neutral format that is then pulled by quicklisp? 17:29:47 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:30:13 ThomasH: pulled or pullable, yes. 17:30:29 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:31:01 ThomasH: yes, I think it's a matter of explosive difficulty for one person in the short term leading to less difficulty over time compared to explosive difficulty for all users for all time. 17:31:16 huh, one of our customers seems to be having problems starting slime with Allegro CL 17:31:29 Xach: How much time do you spend maintaining the meta-data in quicklisp-projects? I presume you've automated a fair amount of it. 17:31:32 "We wrote an ide for a reason, chump. Use it or go away!" 17:31:49 ThomasH: very little time. the tools have been streamlined. 17:31:54 seems like slime is trying to write to the process's standard input, but that's not there on windows 17:32:01 Xach: nooo ): 17:32:25 duomo [~duomo@d90h228.public.simons-rock.edu] has joined #lisp 17:32:39 antifuchs: does allegro support complex constant forms ? 17:32:46 Xach: I'm really going to have to do some reading and understand quicklisp better before being able to contribute anything useful to this documentation issue. 17:33:23 ThomasH: one useful thing you can do is don't write your own custom tool for documentation generation that only runs on allegro for Solaris 17:33:23 fe[nl]ix: I have learned that most of the time, if you ask whether the acl compiler is smart enough to make deductions about the code, the answer is "no" 17:33:41 ThomasH: that would make me really cross! 17:33:41 however, if you declare lots of types and be careful about which operators you use, it's really pretty fast 17:33:52 Xach: Done! 17:33:55 jdz [~jdz@host148-107-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:34:31 antifuchs: and it has excl::defsubst, which is pretty handy when fast is the prime goal 17:34:47 indeed 17:34:58 no need to declare things inlineable and pray for the best (: 17:35:08 Xach: If I survive this month, I should be able to start dedicating Fridays to open-source projects in December. 17:35:09 antifuchs: or, can constantp ever return T for symbols or lists ? 17:35:32 fe[nl]ix: wow, that is a question you best ask support@; not sure I'm qualified to answer that 17:36:01 antifuchs: I'm not a customer 17:36:15 That's ok! 17:36:19 fe[nl]ix: no matter - we support users of the express edition too 17:36:27 also, people making libraries that should work on ACL 17:36:54 and I'm sure Duane or Bob or Steve will be more than happy to give you a really thorough answer (: 17:37:07 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:38:40 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:38:56 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:40:53 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 17:41:10 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:41 nonduality [~alex@t198-255.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has joined #lisp 17:44:35 CLX is busted on ACL 17:44:59 here's a pop quiz for sbcl users 17:45:58 if malloc returns 0, should MAKE-ALIEN return a) a null alien b) signal a storage-condition c) something else? 17:46:36 Do uninformed opininos count? Mine says b. 17:46:42 Opinions, rather. 17:47:10 nikodemus_: does MAKE-ALIEN have an argument errorp? 17:47:19 nikodemus_: depends on if 0 is passed to malloc 17:47:24 nikodemus_: as per read functions? 17:47:39 dlowe_lt: hah, good point 17:47:49 jdz: it does not 17:48:06 nikodemus_: does it make sense to add it? 17:48:17 i have no clue about make-alien... 17:48:52 jdz: possibly 17:48:57 nikodemus_: I'd say a storage-condition is appropriate if the size is non-0, NIL if 0, as long as the free function gracefully accepts NIL 17:49:16 s/NIL/null alien/ if you must 17:49:20 dlowe_lt: NIL isn't really an option here, i think 17:49:45 the type uncertainty would give the optimizer fits, and alien code is already hard enough to make fast already 17:53:01 nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p4FE32C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:55:51 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:55:52 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:57:15 msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-140-124.asm.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:23 ganjahtronic_ [~ganjahtro@189.243.137.65] has joined #lisp 17:57:35 -!- ganjahtronic [~ganjahtro@189.243.199.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:58:09 humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:45 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 17:59:32 -!- nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p4FE32C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:59:58 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:53 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:03:17 -!- ignas [~ignas@85-206-22-190.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:07:24 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-wizwfeeqgsuvebxq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:09:04 so, hmmm. not so great that slime needs the process to read from stdin in order to start the swank server in an inferior lisp. 18:09:35 makes sense? 18:09:58 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:17 allegro cl just can't do that on windows - guess that means it just won't work on windows ): 18:10:48 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:11:50 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:13:38 antifuchs: load swank, start swank server, connect 18:13:48 no inferior-lisp required, i think 18:15:22 nikodemus_: I was hoping to get M-x slime RET working out of the box. 18:15:38 but yeah, loading swank & starting the server via eval args from the cmdline would work! 18:16:50 antifuchs: well, you could probably patch M-x slime RET to run acl via cmd.exe with appropriate args to do that 18:17:04 not sure that will work either ): 18:17:35 surely emacs has something like system(3)? 18:17:40 otoh, hm. slime only writes that one string to inferior-lisp 18:18:09 well, sure, but I was thinking about the process (or random?) ID slime is using in the port file 18:18:29 the string it writes is randomly generated. I want to keep that random portion; buuut a cmd script should do. hm. 18:20:15 -!- jdz [~jdz@host148-107-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:22:33 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:24:52 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-219-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:38 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-77.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:25:47 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:48 hah 18:31:01 -!- tarmil [~user@business-178-48-18-229.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:31:01 nikodemus_: a .bat file that reads from stdin and starts allegro CL with the right -e and +B and +m works. 18:31:05 pg [~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:31:06 This is way convenient. yay. 18:31:35 heh 18:33:27 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:33:35 msponge [~msponge@18.189.70.59] has joined #lisp 18:34:24 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:35:15 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.70.59] has quit [Client Quit] 18:35:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 18:37:29 -!- pg [~crassus@96-42-254-21.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has left #lisp 18:37:45 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:41:27 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:42:00 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-bzjpdbgplztalamn] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:42:45 antifuchs: do you prefer slime to the allegro IDE, or are you just getting it to work for the people who do? 18:43:10 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 18:43:49 *felideon* giggles 18:44:38 Fade: ever since slime started working with sbcl, I haven't spent much time in any other IDE (: 18:44:52 and that includes time working on ACL (-: 18:48:14 =) 18:48:43 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:49:10 -!- jpop [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: .] 18:49:44 -!- antifuchs changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.53, Hunchentoot 1.2.1, CMUCL 20c, ABCL 1.0.0, R.I.P John McCarthy, ECLM videos at http://blip.tv/eclm 18:49:58 woo hoo, eclm videos! 18:50:38 woo 18:51:19 toekutr [~user@50-0-51-2.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:09 woo where 18:52:24 see topic (: 18:52:50 nice :) 18:53:09 looks like some of the talks aren't fully encoded by blip yet. 18:53:37 -!- nonduality [~alex@t198-255.demo.tuwien.ac.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 18:55:45 nikodemus_: I'm sure Duane and Kevin would be very very interested in your numeric benchmarks! 18:55:59 (seeing as how we've got a new release coming out soonish (-:) 18:56:21 antifuchs: they're microbenchmarks -- nothing they can't write in an hour 18:56:29 right (: 18:56:35 would be nice to have the same code as you, though (-; 18:56:42 (not saying for which purpose!) 18:56:51 (definitely not marketing!!) 18:56:59 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:57:06 i specifically wrote mine to cover different cases sbcl can hit, so they might be totally wrong to cover the different cases for acl 18:57:59 antifuchs: i'll be happy to supply the code if the numbers will be made public :P 18:58:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:58:31 antifuchs: otherwise you guys will have to wait till i think the framework is done 18:58:54 or i can /sell/ the code :P 18:59:54 I'm pretty sure we do publish numbers 19:00:03 but I'll put Kevin and you in touch (: 19:00:37 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #lisp 19:00:42 Hey, Nick Levine, *I* didn't talk about lists until quite late in my book. 19:02:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Client Quit] 19:07:17 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 19:09:29 Has Nick Levine heard of Quicklisp? 19:09:52 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-fryociazjyzgyvdx] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:09:58 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-yxtmiadsiguvhmtn] has joined #lisp 19:10:09 loading restas hangs in select(2) and never returns to repl 19:10:16 Ah, there it is. 19:11:10 antifuchs: cool beans :) 19:13:45 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:13:51 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:13:59 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:09 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:02 gigamonkey: nick's talk prompted changes to my talk 19:15:16 -!- ljosa [~ljosa@pool-98-110-200-174.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: ljosa] 19:15:35 Ah. 19:15:46 Haven't watched yours yet. 19:16:00 Is mine up? 19:16:04 Dunno. 19:16:10 nope 19:16:25 ganjahtronic__ [~ganjahtro@189.243.183.206] has joined #lisp 19:16:42 -!- ganjahtronic_ [~ganjahtro@189.243.137.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:17:08 sacho [~sacho@90-154-148-222.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:17:30 How was his talk received? 19:17:53 Politely, I suppose. I held my head in pain. 19:18:14 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:18:17 from the descriptions it sounded like Nick has not been keeping up to date on the lisp ecosystem 19:18:23 Xach: I can imagine. 19:18:37 but it's definitely good to have his PoV there - it's probably how many outsiders see lisp right now (: 19:18:56 He's a bit glum. 19:19:00 well, the structure of his book kind of underlined that fact. 19:19:03 I think it's kind of a generational thing, as highlighted in gigamonkey's ILC talk. 19:19:12 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:19:23 I hope Xach's talk gets posted. 19:19:37 People who were around for the sausage and legislation making have have a really different perspective on things. Don't know if that's nick or not. 19:21:01 Xach's talk was brilliant 19:21:26 Xach: does Quicklisp know where its libs came from? I.e. could there be a function that would tell me the, say, github repo for some system? 19:21:56 You must know but I don't remember that info being in the systems file. 19:21:57 gigamonkey: It's not as easy as it should be yet. the quicklisp-projects repo is what I use, though I have to make it more accessible and up-to-date. 19:22:47 e.g. https://raw.github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/master/monkeylib-foo/source.txt 19:23:01 That is where I get monkeylib-foo. 19:23:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:49 I see. So if you grabbed all the source.txt files under quicklisp-projects you'd have a complete list. 19:23:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:08 But the stuff down on my machine, in my QL install, no longer has that information? 19:24:09 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:24:11 gigamonkey: that is the theory. it isn't perfect though. 19:24:14 gigamonkey: no, it doesn't. 19:24:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:24:20 gigamonkey: i view that as a problem to solve. 19:24:57 Probably you want to know two links: the canonical place to get the source and the "best" url to learn about the library. 19:25:10 Which for many libraries might be the github project for both. 19:25:22 It's kind of a yak-shaving thing. There are a number of things I'd like to do that would make upstream source information easy to provide. 19:25:25 But if someone actually has good docs up on the web somewhere, they might be different. 19:25:33 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 19:25:33 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 19:28:00 I'm just looking at Jack Harper's presentation, and I'm surprised inasmuch as he seems to be saying that lispworks only has green threads? 19:28:04 is that the case? 19:29:29 mmm.. packaging conventions 19:30:02 Xach: such as? 19:31:04 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3C41.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:31:04 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.27.202] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:21 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:38 gigamonkey: right now i live at the bleeding edge of the world and it's hard to walk back breakage in time. i'd like to move to a system where i can massage sets of project snapshots more easily, and part of that would be lumping in info about exactly how the snapshot was created along with steps for recreating it, which would include upstream info and metadata (e.g. tag, timestamp, git hash, darcs changes file, etc) 19:31:47 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@dsl-hkibrasgw4-fe5bdf00-15.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32:48 What % of libs in QL are hosted on github? 19:32:53 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 19:32:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:33:26 40% 19:33:44 20% on common-lisp.net 19:33:44 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:34:31 Hrm. "Cannot CHANGE-CLASS objects into CLASS metaobjects." This is what happens if you try to redefine a class to have a different metaclass? 19:34:45 Or is something else going on? 19:34:58 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:36:02 And some of those on common-lisp.net are probably in git there? 19:36:22 I'd expect that at least one is in git. 19:36:59 gigamonkey: 22 of 143 19:38:06 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:07 hmm, only 26 in CVS 19:39:20 it would be so nice if that was 0 19:39:30 Oh yeah. 19:39:35 wow, only 22 in svn. i thought it might be more. 19:39:45 Have any of those CVS projects actually been updated since you started? 19:39:53 Or are they just legacy things hanging around. 19:39:56 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:08 (BTW, any response from Shrager?) 19:40:10 there's one that is updated from time to time, but i'm not sure i'll keep it in quicklisp 19:40:14 would it be nicer if we didn't have to grab projects from *vcs ? 19:40:17 some weird thing called "slime" 19:40:33 Probably nobody uses it. Funny name. 19:40:45 slime, Toot...clearly nobody is paying attention 19:40:55 j_king: we don't, mostly. 19:40:57 j_king: well, that's sort of the point of Quicklisp. Only Xach has to. 19:41:04 j_king: some people want to hack and hacking is good. 19:41:21 i'm just thinking of xach. ;) 19:41:36 j_king: what's the alternative? 19:41:39 also, i found another local fellow interested in setting up a lisp smoke testing server 19:41:41 Is there some hard-core CVS lover on the SLIME team? 19:41:49 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 19:41:57 gigamonkey: i think it's more of an "if it ain't broke" mentality 19:42:15 Uh, it's in CVS. Isn't that "broke". 19:42:15 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 19:42:34 that seems pretty broken to me 19:42:48 Hmm, who is maintaining cl-irc these days? 19:42:49 Xach: it might be trading one mess for another, but typically I've seen blub's come up with some sort of convention for packaging source code for release 19:42:57 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl6-9-66.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:43:02 j_king: oh, right, yeah, that would be nice. 19:43:07 Xach: ehu 19:43:10 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:43:20 Xach: I think you should just declare, here's how to prepackage things for quicklisp. 19:43:40 Then folks who play along get expedited updates in the dist. 19:43:55 gigamonkey: Look how long it took SBCL to move away from CVS. 19:44:16 Xach: I believe ehu was playing maintainer earlier this week. 19:44:27 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:28 cl-irc is in cvs. 19:44:40 ... thought it was in svn? 19:44:41 er, it's in svn 19:45:03 Oh, sorry, wrong grep. 19:45:07 yes, it is. 19:45:24 That said, I think I'd rather deal with CVS than with SVN. 19:45:31 beirc is in cvs, and mcclim and climacs too. 19:46:44 There must be some part of what you do that you could optionally offload to library authors. I.e. something we could do to reduce the amount of work you have to do. 19:47:37 Go add :description to all your systems. 19:47:50 Then I don't have to email you about it. 19:48:31 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:49:01 Okay, done for toot and whistle. Not that they're ready for ql fame yet. 19:50:02 And should those descriptions be a one-sentence description or something longer? 19:50:40 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:52:13 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:52:52 cnl [~cnl@95.106.65.176] has joined #lisp 19:54:08 :description should be short. There's a separate :long-description option. 19:54:50 Martiini [~martin@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 20:01:04 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:03:11 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:46 nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p4FE33AFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:11 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:32 -!- msmith1 [~msmit297@adsl-74-190-140-124.asm.bellsouth.net] has left #lisp 20:06:45 Okay, I'm becoming less and less of a fan of the CL package system. 20:06:49 I used to think it wasn't so bad. 20:07:11 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32C84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:07:12 halleluja! 20:07:34 gigamonkey: how so ? 20:08:39 fe[nl]ix: I just stomped myself. Plus during my Toot refactoring the sense that a simple rename could cause undetected collisions and resulting stompage just didn't feel good. 20:09:30 By "stomping" I mean defining a function accidentally using a name that is exported from a package I'm using. 20:09:43 gigamonkey: nikodemus suggested the interesting step of auto-locking packages after loading to see how widespread that is 20:09:57 gigamonkey: I usually get a warning when I try that. 20:10:06 gigamonkey: he did it for alexandria and it showed a half-dozen instances of unintentional name use 20:10:14 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:07 gabnet [~gabnet@245.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:33 Hrm. Note self: Enable package locks by default. 20:12:14 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:12:48 *hydo* looks up how to lock packages... 20:13:25 oh, well that's easy enough. 20:14:01 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-yxtmiadsiguvhmtn] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:14:16 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:14:23 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:08 s0ber [~s0ber@114-36-239-30.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:05 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:15 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:17:33 gigamonkey: I sometimes wish for a happy medium between :import and :use 20:17:45 i.e. something that whines when you try to "import" something not exported. 20:20:44 -!- ganjahtronic__ [~ganjahtro@189.243.183.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:00 -!- humasect [~humasect@d24-235-167-67.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:25:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:25:59 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 20:26:01 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:26:09 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:29:06 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@GGZYYYMMCCXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:29:23 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:29:47 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 20:30:53 zomgbie_ [~jesus@213.162.68.12] has joined #lisp 20:31:32 gigamonkey: haven't heard back from schrager 20:31:33 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-219-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:41 Did hear back from Dill on the topic of packages, though! 20:31:50 Pretty interesting. 20:32:52 -!- psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has left #lisp 20:33:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:33:33 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:57 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:42 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:39:57 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928224103]] 20:40:43 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-83-250.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:45:01 -!- Martiini [~martin@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:45:17 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE314C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:44 I also dislike that certain names are totally unavailable unless I shadow them. 20:46:02 STRING and DIRECTORY are two that I seem to run up against a lot. 20:46:52 i was reading some introductory stuff on how racket packages their stuff.. seemed pretty sane 20:46:55 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-142-33-240.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:47:13 The one I shadow sometimes is TYPE. Haven't had the urge for STRING or DIRECTORY yet. 20:47:25 Though that last one is partly the package system and partly a result of having generic functions (which I like) instead of single dispatch. 20:47:26 i was alittle wary of CL packages at first. but every package system has warts so i got over it 20:47:45 But it is kind of nice in single-dispatch languages how each class gets its own little namespace to play in. 20:48:34 gigamonkey: I sometimes hear complaints about how you then shouldn't add methods to Object or whatever. 20:48:38 T is the one that always got me 20:48:49 happy days, when I did numerical programming 20:48:50 -!- nachtwandler_ [~nachtwand@p4FE33AFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:49:53 Xach: That's true, in languages that allow you to do that. (E.g. Smalltalk, Javascript, Python) 20:50:20 Kryztof: yes. that one. I think if I was making a language all single letter names would be reserved for the user. 20:53:01 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75da7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:53:10 Bah. I've asked this before and I think I just don't like the answer which is why I can't remember it but: is there a way to tell SBCL that when I recompile a DEFPACKAGE I just want the new definition to replace the old one? 20:53:28 "no" 20:53:29 I.e. don't whine at me because I used to shadow something and now I don't. 20:53:35 how hard can it be to remember that? :-) 20:53:35 Yeah, that's the one I don't like. 20:53:39 you could delete the package first 20:54:09 ganjahtronic [~ganjahtro@189.243.183.206] has joined #lisp 20:54:11 But then I have to recompile everything in that package right, since all the existing symbols become orphaned or uninterned or whatever, right? 20:54:27 gigamonkey: use a different defpackage 20:54:43 To say nothing of existing packages that :use the one I want to redefine. 20:54:47 spoilsport 20:55:04 Kryztof: is there some deep reason for the answer being "no" or just nobody cares about it? 20:55:31 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE314C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:52 probably nobody cares enough about it 20:56:03 I mean the warning is because strictly speaking you're getting undefined behaviour 20:56:15 and we like pedantically telling you about it 20:56:22 gigamonkey: add a bug on launchpad and i'll try to see to it before the year is out 20:56:29 If it was a warning I could live with it. But it's an error. (Or SLIME treats it as such, maybe.) 20:56:47 nikodemus: okay. 20:56:49 it's probably the asdf-full-warning-as-error behaviour? 20:57:32 i've been meaning to add a restart use-new-definition or similar for ages 20:57:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:58:12 dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:20 I just redefined a package to remove an export. Step one, use UNEXPORT to do the real damage. Step two, use DEFPACKAGE to make sure everything is synced up. 20:58:49 yeah, if you do the modification incrementally in the image and then mess with the defpackage, that works too 20:58:50 *Xach* pipes up about the patch nobody really asked for, sb-ext:set-sbcl-source-location 20:59:19 how about that patch, eh? 20:59:28 awesome patch, Xach! 20:59:36 It'll really come in useful to someone! 20:59:58 Kryztof: I don't think it's the ASDF thing since I was just C-c C-c'ing the defpackage form. 21:00:30 Kryztof: do you have time for xach's patch in y 21:00:34 our schedule 21:00:56 Another approach is to take the warning from compiling the defpackage and using that as a guide to what to change in the image. 21:01:25 maybe by the weekend 21:02:19 is anyone looking at the run-program thing? 21:03:39 Only to the extent that I applied & tried it. 21:04:41 -!- H4ns [5b3d4147@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.65.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:04:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:04:46 nikodemus: done. 21:04:58 thanks 21:05:10 -!- ThomasH [468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:06:13 hi 21:06:31 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:07:47 nikodemus: do you think performance on generic arithmetic can be improved much? 21:09:55 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:10:18 i don't rightly know. the dispathing could be made more efficient i'm sure, but i'm not actually sure how much of the generic arithmetic cost comes from that 21:10:23 cpc26 [~cpc26@rrcs-70-63-155-45.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:10:29 dispatching, even 21:11:04 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:11 using suboptimal representations and heap consing results accounts for a lot of the costs 21:13:36 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:13:37 but the ratio of dispatch vs the rest is unknown to me 21:14:08 and dispatch is the only thing i have a decent idea how to improve 21:14:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:19 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@rrcs-70-63-155-45.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:15:46 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:16:55 how about pipeline and cache issues? I always thought that was the big hit 21:17:21 -!- ganjahtronic [~ganjahtro@189.243.183.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:48 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:17:57 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:01 not for generic arithmetic, i think 21:18:26 i could be wrong, of course. i know how it performs, but am not exactly sure why... 21:20:30 psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has joined #lisp 21:21:59 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 21:22:20 it may be that a fair deal of the cost is owed to double-indirection (generic+ to two-arg+) 21:23:34 one thing that could be worth a short is directly converting to two-arg+ when we know at least one argument isn't a fixnum 21:23:44 worth a shot, even 21:23:51 worthless keyboard 21:24:21 I use a modified generic arithmetic package by rick fateman, based on clos, and it's about a 100 times slower than normal code. 21:24:54 why? 21:25:09 fe[nl]ix: why what? 21:25:10 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:38 prxq: what type are your arguments mostly? 21:25:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:54 prxq: why do you use that ? 21:26:08 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:26:24 fe[nl]ix: I use it for automatic differentiation. 21:26:42 nikodemus: classes, often numbers 21:26:43 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.29.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:27:30 Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.229.209] has joined #lisp 21:27:40 hm. it would be interesting to allow subclassing number, and adding a gf call as the fallback from normal arithemtic opa 21:27:45 ops, even 21:28:00 fe[nl]ix: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.137.5798 21:28:00 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.229.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:28:18 nikodemus: that would be great 21:28:31 prxq: i was rather meaning what type of numbers? fixnums, bignums, floats 21:28:49 oh, floats and fixnums 21:29:03 and mostly double-floats 21:29:57 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@245.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:30:19 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 21:31:31 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 21:32:19 night -> 21:32:23 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:42:16 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:28 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-179-45-193.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:02 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-222-161.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:35 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.87.171] has joined #lisp 21:47:14 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:29 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 21:48:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@c951835c.virtua.com.br] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:48:14 marsell [~marsell@120.18.214.146] has joined #lisp 21:48:18 -!- zomgbie_ [~jesus@213.162.68.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:00 -!- dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:50:44 fmeyer [~fmeyer@c951835c.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:50:49 ThomasH [468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:51:58 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:55:19 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.87.171] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:55:22 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-48-53.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:55:27 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:56:39 Lovely, I've been banging my head against a coordinate transformation for the past 2 days. Turns out that when the software manual defines the spherical coordinate system as right-handed, they actually mean left-handed. 21:57:02 must've been an evil lefthander that wrote it 21:58:17 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:01 -!- duomo [~duomo@d90h228.public.simons-rock.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:59:09 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 22:03:53 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-yckdrwsiodqbdlaz] has joined #lisp 22:05:32 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:06:47 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.225] has joined #lisp 22:06:50 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.229.209] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:10:38 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:16 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:07 ThomasH: the other thing that can go wrong is the difference between transforming the objects and transforming the coordinate system itself 22:26:21 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:28:49 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:29:18 Kryztof: Definitely. I've been careful about that. 22:32:21 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:55 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.48] has joined #lisp 22:34:16 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:34:57 -!- sacho [~sacho@90-154-148-222.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 22:35:47 sacho [~sacho@90-154-148-222.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 22:35:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:37:32 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 22:37:46 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:15 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-170-230.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:18 TDT [~user@dhcpw80ffc55c.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 22:38:52 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:41:42 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:43:21 Hey all, I working a bit with sb-ext:run-program, and was curious. I want to run something like: "R --no-save < r-script.R". The "<" is treated as an argument with run-program (was trying: (sb-ext:run-program "R" '("--no-save" "<" "r-script.R"))). Kinda makes sense why it doesn't work. Is there an alternate, easy way of doing it? 22:44:11 TDT: hmmm... pass an open file stream (of "r-script.R") as standard input to sb-ext:run-program? 22:44:27 TDT: "<" is shell syntax for setting up fd redirection 22:44:46 (run-program "sh" `("-c" ....)) 22:44:47 TDT: one option is to do something like "sh" "-c" "R --no-save < r-script.R" 22:45:23 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:51 *nods*, thanks everyone for the information/support. I'll go with the sh option, I don't need a super robust solution, just something simple..this should work. 22:46:29 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:50:42 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-4db5618f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 22:50:57 clever trick, worked fantastically, thanks again. 22:51:54 not super great if you are getting input from something lightly trusted 22:52:32 yeah, the R file I'm generating within the same script. 22:53:01 Basically just saving myself going to the terminal and typing it manually..I gotta run this a few times. 22:53:26 *Xach* can relate 22:56:24 TDT: with run-program, you can open the tty to the program and send the script commands directly to R instead of the intermediate file. 22:57:46 TDT: If you're still here, I'll paste an example of how I use that technique. 22:59:04 ThomasH: Hmm, interesting, didn't know you could do that. Would you mind messaging me the link? Unfortunately the bus comes in a few minutes, packing up now. 22:59:16 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:59:49 TDT: Yeah, I'll paste it and memoserv the link. 23:00:12 ThomasH: awesome, thanks, I appreciate it. 23:00:16 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:00:19 -!- TDT [~user@dhcpw80ffc55c.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:00:37 hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:01:46 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-202-80.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:39 -!- dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:03:42 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-134-179.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:54 dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 23:04:03 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-134-179.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 23:06:30 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:07:26 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:16:32 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 23:19:06 iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:46 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75da7a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:24:10 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:26:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:13 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@c951835c.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:26:30 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 23:30:21 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-215.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:31:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:32:24 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 23:32:32 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:34:14 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 23:36:06 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:38:34 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.54.87] has joined #lisp 23:39:25 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:41:06 superflit_ [~superflit@71-208-220-16.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:10 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.55] has joined #lisp 23:41:49 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:04 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-128.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:42:22 -!- hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:44:20 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:44:21 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 23:45:51 Farzad [~root@46.225.97.187] has joined #lisp 23:46:14 -!- bhaskara` [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:36 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125895 can someone with more experience than I explain this? 23:46:42 bhaskara` [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has joined #lisp 23:46:50 The functions is just supposed to make an alist of characters and their counts in the given string 23:47:25 I suspect my loop invocation across the string 23:49:52 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:50:24 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.4] has joined #lisp 23:50:33 fisxoj: don't modify backquoted lists. 23:50:48 fisxoj: use (list c 1) and see what happens 23:51:12 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:21 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:51:35 Xach, thanks, that works exactly as I wanted it to. I thought that the quote macro was equivalent to (list ...) 23:51:49 fisxoj: nope 23:51:51 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Tempire is going dark. Keep it crispy, folks.] 23:51:56 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:02 so I thought a backquote was the only way to evaluate the c. Can you tell me what was happening? 23:52:21 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189-38-236-209.static-corp.ajato.com.br] has joined #lisp