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The parameter 'value' for that case is obviously "\"bleh\"". 01:51:55 adeht: Well that was what I was thinking But it seems to be not the problem If I statically put "foobar" or any other string without quotes in place of value in line 62, it works flawlessly. 01:57:25 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 01:57:38 work here. 01:57:43 phryk: I don't understand.. if `value' is "\"bleh\"" in value-parse, I'd expect it to do nothing, and indeed it does. 01:58:12 Why should it do nothing? 01:59:22 phryk: it works fine here. 01:59:28 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-82-121.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:59:42 pkhuong: so it matches the whole string and returns it? 01:59:46 phryk: heh, I used an empty list for *basetypes* :) 01:59:48 yes. 02:00:29 Well that sucks for me 02:00:50 You're likely not executing the definition you pasted. 02:01:05 defvar is suspect. Reevaluating a defvar does nothing. 02:02:14 reevaluating? 02:02:25 It only accesses it 02:02:53 If you had a different value in (defvar *basetypes* ) earlier, it's still around. 02:03:18 There is only that one definition of it. 02:03:29 I just did sbcl --load meta.lisp (which is the file i pasted) 02:04:39 And then you tried (value-parse "\"bleh\"")? 02:04:46 -!- zmv [~daniel@177.24.198.104] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:05:21 Nah, the last line in the file reads it from a file 02:05:26 gimme a sec to try that directly 02:06:50 urgh 02:06:54 You're right, it works. 02:07:32 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:07:33 I think that would mean my way of reading files is messed up 02:08:24 (read-line handle NIL) 02:08:48 This is how I read a line as string. Is this somehow 'unsanitary' ? 02:09:16 phryk: have you considered getting a backtrace? 02:10:19 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:10:33 To be honest, no. 02:11:14 I guess this means I can't procrastrinate from properly setting up slimv anymore 02:12:10 :backtrace 02:12:12 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-9-163.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:15 I guess I'll do that before going on. But I'll get to sleep now It's like 3 am 02:15:05 Ah, I'll look into the trace tomorrow. :) 02:16:24 -!- snearch [~snearch@g231235178.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 02:17:20 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:19:20 -!- yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:22:02 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 02:24:19 hugod [~hugod@70.24.180.190] has joined #lisp 02:27:57 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:13 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 02:30:30 iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:57 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B4F7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:31:23 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B4D3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:27 ryan` [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:42 -!- gigamonkey 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[~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 03:23:11 hba [~hba@187.171.194.138] has joined #lisp 03:23:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:29:34 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:30:37 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:33:32 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 03:34:32 chp [~chp@c-68-45-180-238.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:49 cnl [~cnl@95.106.27.202] has joined #lisp 03:39:51 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:41:24 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.180.190] has quit [Quit: hugod] 03:42:01 hugod [~hugod@70.24.180.190] has joined #lisp 03:43:09 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 03:43:56 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:11 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:44:49 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:45:39 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:46:05 agumonkey [~agu@151.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 03:54:23 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 03:55:55 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:00:54 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:03:12 Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.182.55] has joined #lisp 04:04:11 -!- el-maxo [~max@p5DE8EF05.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:07:02 el-maxo [~max@p57A57B17.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:10:50 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 04:14:01 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 04:16:05 samDodrill [~sam@146.187.72.35] has joined #lisp 04:16:27 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:28 I had an idea on how you could make a recursive lisp evalulator today 04:17:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:17:40 -!- maxm---- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:17:45 maxm---- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:13 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.182.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:21:28 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@110.4.12.64] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 04:21:52 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:22:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:28:18 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:31:32 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-umqrheegiaphcaqz] has joined #lisp 04:36:47 stratobacker [~user@c-98-202-137-87.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:41:55 grinberg 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joined #lisp 06:51:50 Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-39-244.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:52:07 Demosthenes [~demo@74.7.181.194] has joined #lisp 06:52:11 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:54:35 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 06:57:38 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 07:05:28 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-175-28.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-120-2.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:08:30 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:08:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:10:12 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Tempire is going dark. Keep it crispy, folks.] 07:10:40 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:10:46 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:13:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:13:52 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-92.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:15:58 msponge [~msponge@31-33-19.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 07:20:34 how to pronounce a "*" ,:-) 07:20:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:21:04 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 07:21:44 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-79-29.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:59 chenbing: *'s in *symbol-names* ==> "earmuffs" 07:24:13 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:24:26 good morning 07:26:45 in something like let* id probably say `letstar' or just `lets' 07:27:23 I got "AS-TER-IK" from #reddit 07:27:47 oh 07:29:09 it's called an asterisk, yeah. in specific contexts it has other names. 07:29:12 star. The character is an asteri*s*k. 07:29:44   DAWGS-CAWK oh my god,somedody describe it as a dog cock... 07:30:07 chenbing: can you take your english lessons elsewhere? thank you. 07:30:29 ok,H4ns 07:32:54 ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:30 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-120-2.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:35:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:42 -!- ZabaQ [~johnfredc@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:35:49 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 07:36:37 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:39:32 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007018.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 07:40:18 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007018.public.telering.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:41:17 -!- Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-39-244.iburst.co.za] has left #lisp 07:43:43 oudeis 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07:51:18 fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has joined #lisp 07:51:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:53:07 -!- hba [~hba@187.171.194.138] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:01:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:07:20 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 08:07:43 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-120-2.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:14:01 -!- billstclair [wws@clozure-51BF8B83.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 08:14:35 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 9wks 2days 6hrs 59mins 5secs] 08:14:36 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:53 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 08:15:51 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:17:08 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-49-246.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:17:08 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-49-246.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:17:08 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:20:27 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:20:27 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:21:32 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 08:21:57 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 08:27:20 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:29:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-120-2.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:29:22 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 08:30:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:32:29 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 08:33:34 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 08:36:40 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.182.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:36:40 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:36:56 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 08:37:42 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-fcjevvsflyptcxui] has joined #lisp 08:39:28 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:39:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:40:31 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@109.239.37.119] has joined #lisp 08:40:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@109.239.37.119] has quit [Changing host] 08:40:32 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:40:52 good morning everyone 08:49:20 agumonkey [~agu@151.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:50:46 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 08:54:36 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:55:25 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 08:55:52 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:00:40 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:00:40 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:00:59 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:03:50 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.173.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:03:51 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:22 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:05:26 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.173.229] has joined #lisp 09:05:39 -!- 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[~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:08:16 -!- tritchey_ is now known as tritchey 09:08:16 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:08:46 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:09:02 -!- kruft` [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:03 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:09 pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:14 kruft` [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:09:25 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:09:39 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:12:34 what's up with http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp ? 09:12:34 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:00 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:13:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:13:30 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:13:31 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:13:57 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:14:28 http://pastebin.com/65imirkr 09:14:39 Why do I get ; note: doing signed word to integer coercion (cost 20) to NUM ? 09:14:40 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:15:01 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:16:08 hi 09:16:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:16:39 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:16:48 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.84] has joined #lisp 09:16:48 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.84] has quit [Changing host] 09:16:48 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:17:11 Found it... loop for num of-type fixnum from 1 09:17:12 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:16 hi 09:17:38 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:17:39 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:18:08 grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:51 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 09:26:20 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 09:29:08 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:29:52 snearch [~snearch@e178190081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:30:56 marsell [~marsell@120.18.229.75] has joined #lisp 09:31:57 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:40 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 09:35:16 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:35:39 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@183.106.96.4] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:35:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:35:58 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:35:59 setmeaway [setmeaway3@183.106.96.4] has joined #lisp 09:37:22 zyg [57e37c83@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.227.124.131] has joined #lisp 09:37:23 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:43 is common-lisp.net down? 09:37:44 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:38:22 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 09:38:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:34 madnificent: it seems so 09:38:46 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:39:20 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 09:39:21 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:39:45 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:39:50 madnificent: galdor: thanks, i notified the ops 09:40:09 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:40:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:40:45 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:42:24 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:42:24 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:42:44 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 09:43:43 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:43:43 -!- bfein [~bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:44:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@151.217.72.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:45:38 bfein [~bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 09:45:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] 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error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:08 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:09:55 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:11:57 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:13:08 -!- knob [~knob@66.50.244.130] has quit [] 11:14:55 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:15:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:48 -!- waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:17:56 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-umqrheegiaphcaqz] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:19:22 H4ns: I think it was lisppaste and the bots causing this problem. it looks like the ulimit statement in the script to start lisppaste contains an error which causes the statement not to fire at all. 11:20:18 cfy` [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has joined #lisp 11:20:44 -!- cfy` is now known as Guest52691 11:21:03 ehu: i see. well, there is the global configuration now which should help in any case. 11:21:08 gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-177.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 11:21:30 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 11:21:54 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-177.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:22:09 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:22:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:20 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:22:35 -!- Guest52691 is now known as cfy 11:22:36 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 11:22:36 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has quit [Changing host] 11:22:36 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:22:46 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:10 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 11:23:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has 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[~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:53:32 hugod [~hugod@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 11:53:33 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:54:06 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 11:59:25 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.229.75] has quit [Quit: marsell] 11:59:26 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:59:26 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:59:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:01:13 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:01:25 -!- buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:02:40 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 12:03:13 buhman [~zack@unaffiliated/buhman] has joined #lisp 12:03:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:03:54 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 12:05:39 am0c [~am0c@175.193.122.126] has joined #lisp 12:05:40 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:03 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 12:06:04 -!- hugod [~hugod@76.65.142.49] has quit [Quit: hugod] 12:06:58 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has joined #lisp 12:06:59 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:07:15 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 12:07:17 Hi all! 12:08:08 anyone using clsql on Windows? 12:08:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:08:14 with the mysql backend 12:08:45 I'm having trouble using it because of a foreign function not found in the clsql_mysql.dll glue library 12:08:45 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 12:09:08 and I have not a compilation environment for C to try to recompile it 12:09:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:14 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-220-223.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:20 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-79-29.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:12:00 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:41 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-75-10-149-144.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:49 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:14:13 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:14:40 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.193.122.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:15:30 -!- snearch [~snearch@e178190081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 12:15:51 grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:25 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 12:18:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:38 francogrex [~user@109.130.88.227] has joined #lisp 12:22:09 Hi all, I am looking at a library called montezuma, it's nice. But in it they use a file of type .sexp which is supposed to be an index all all lisppaste files.... how was that file made? is it stored somewhere periodically.... ? 12:23:24 it seems to be made out of structures: #S(PASTE-SEARCH::PASTE :NUMBER 19836 :USER "roconnor" ... 12:27:36 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:30:12 zmv [~daniel@201.83.53.44] has joined #lisp 12:31:30 am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.46] has joined #lisp 12:35:43 http://weitz.de/files/hunchentoot.tar.gz is 404, anyone know where I can get a recent hunchentoot? 12:36:30 frodef: https://github.com/downloads/edicl/hunchentoot/hunchentoot.tar.gz is the new canonical location 12:36:47 H4ns: ok, thanks! 12:37:01 *H4ns* needs to nag edi again 12:40:09 Harag [~phil@wbs-41-208-223-10.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:41:31 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:42:03 frodef: quicklisp? 12:42:04 :-) 12:42:23 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has joined #lisp 12:43:17 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 12:43:49 ehu: that was my second attempt, but it just failed. 12:43:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.244] has joined #lisp 12:43:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.244] has quit [Changing host] 12:43:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:44:21 (to load) 12:46:21 Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@188.132.34.194] has joined #lisp 12:47:35 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.88.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:48:13 ykiff [~user@175.124.95.120] has joined #lisp 12:50:10 hugod [~hugod@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 12:50:23 -!- clirctut [~clirctut@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:39 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:51:38 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-220-223.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 12:51:47 -!- dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:51:52 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:52:48 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 12:56:54 I have a class with a bunch of methods that I need to specialize on (lots of times), but I dont want to manually write the code for each specialization, obviously I could use macro's to generate the code or ...is there a alternative design paradigm? 12:57:41 what is wrong with using a macro to write the methods? 12:58:18 not saying there is anything wrong, just asking if there are other ways to do it 12:58:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:58:55 Harag: of course there are other ways. typecase, cond, chains of ifs, table lookup based explicit dispatch ... 12:59:27 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:59:36 Harag: without knowing any details of what you do, it is not really possible to say whether using a generic function here is a good approach. also, what does "good" mean anyway? :) 12:59:53 there is always a possibility for homebrew manual dispatch, and a desire to generate a lot of methods with a few macros is a good indicator that custom dispatch /might/ be better 13:00:56 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 13:02:47 H4ns: I have a widget class (grid) that I need to specialize for each new instance of the widget so it can handle the data associated with it. However I have all the data I need to generate the specialization instead of having to write it. That also gives me the flexibility to add new specializations at run time. 13:03:48 Harag: you need to specialize for each instance? 13:04:11 well each use case of widget + table from db 13:04:35 Hmm, when trying to issue "make" in sbcl/doc/manual, I get "egrep: Invalid range end". 13:04:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:57 daniel___ [~daniel@c953352c.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 13:05:58 *Xach* tries again from clean build 13:06:11 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:06:14 tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.254] has joined #lisp 13:06:37 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has joined #lisp 13:06:56 -!- zmv [~daniel@201.83.53.44] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:06:58 -!- daniel___ is now known as zmv 13:07:09 -!- hugod [~hugod@76.65.142.49] has quit [Quit: hugod] 13:07:49 tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:08:33 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:09:37 Harag: to me that looks like you shouldn't create a new class for each of those... i think a strategy pattern might help you out (but i'm not a pattern master). 13:09:38 H4ns: mmmm ok so if I specialize once and use data based rules instead i could skip the code creation 13:10:09 madnificent: yeah ... snap 13:10:23 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:10:24 hugod [~hugod@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 thanx guys you got mind going again, I was not thinking clearly 13:11:40 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:01 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:12:03 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 13:12:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.244] has joined #lisp 13:12:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.12.244] has quit [Changing host] 13:12:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:14:46 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:15:25 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:15:27 Harag: that can happen :) 13:17:45 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:18:06 mensch [~mensch@158.121.107.71] has joined #lisp 13:18:06 minion: memo for francogrex: i checked out Montezuma a month ago or so and it fails on large on-disk indexes. If that's fixed I'd like to know, but be warned that it's most likely still in there (the bug was long-standing iirc). I did enjoy the interface they provide. 13:18:49 Remembered. I'll tell francogrex when he/she/it next speaks. 13:19:26 minion seems to be busy today :) 13:19:53 Harag: that's why a sounding board is useful :) 13:20:39 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.93] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:21:02 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.86.37] has joined #lisp 13:21:43 rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:22:02 jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:22:43 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:24:25 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-120-2.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:25:23 -!- Harag [~phil@wbs-41-208-223-10.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:25:47 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:26:08 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:27:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:33:31 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:33:35 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:34:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:36:14 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.44.190] has joined #lisp 13:36:36 -!- alek_b [~alek_b@99-10-120-63.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:49 is there a function which is semantically equivalent to (first (sort sequence #'< :key #'foo)) / 13:37:54 s/\/?/ 13:38:21 that substitution is incorrect, s/\//?/ would be it 13:38:45 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@MMMXCVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:39:03 i know it's easy to write, so 'no' is a perfectly sane answer 13:39:14 madnificent: cl-utilities:extremum 13:40:16 -!- am0c [~am0c@180.224.41.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:40:17 -!- pers [~user@96-25-162-104.gar.clearwire-wmx.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:41:12 ah, right! thanks :) I haven't used cl-utilities so far 13:41:34 The only thing I know about cl-utilities is that it defines extremum 13:44:03 it also seems to define things like split-sequence and compose 13:46:26 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:46:37 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:47:20 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.84] has joined #lisp 13:47:20 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.84] has quit [Changing host] 13:47:20 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 13:47:53 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 13:48:48 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 13:49:13 -!- zmv is now known as lolwut 13:50:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:55:10 Does anyone have any experience with CXML? 13:55:12 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.213.27.185] has joined #lisp 13:55:20 I'm having a bizarre problem with namespaces 13:56:49 loke: i use it all the time. 13:58:28 -!- lolwut is now known as zmv 13:58:51 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:59:56 H4ns: cool 14:00:16 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:01:45 H4ns: My problem is that I have an XML document (with namespaces), and I create a new document (using cxml-dom:create-document), and I copy one of the nodes of the first one into the new document (using DOM:IMPORT-NODE). The problem is that when I later export this new document, there are no xmlns-definitions in the resluting output. The namespace prefixes are there though. 14:01:53 What could be the problem? 14:02:46 rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has joined #lisp 14:03:00 loke: sorry, i don't use cxml-dom :/ 14:03:26 Oh 14:03:28 only sax? 14:03:51 loke: klacks mostly, and serialization 14:03:59 *Xach* uses klacks mostly also 14:03:59 What is klacks? 14:04:11 loke: http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/klacks.html 14:04:13 loke: the pull parser. 14:04:20 ah 14:05:10 Well, in my case, DOM is the appropriate thing to use, as I'm loading, say, a contact list from Google, I then need to update one contact which is done my uploading a different XML document, where one node is the modified contact node from the original document 14:05:29 I have to do it this way in order to ensure that unhandled fields are left alone. 14:06:19 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:28 G'morning all. 14:06:39 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953352c.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:06:43 I've been tering my hair over this for long enough that I'm starting to believe there may be a problem with cxml 14:06:55 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:19 zmv [~daniel@c953352c.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:11:00 francogrex [~user@109.130.88.227] has joined #lisp 14:11:04 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 14:11:38 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.250.89] has joined #lisp 14:11:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:59 (search "." :from-end t) ... does it start the count from the end ? doesn 't seem so; how to start the count from the last char? 14:11:59 francogrex, memo from madnificent: i checked out Montezuma a month ago or so and it fails on large on-disk indexes. If that's fixed I'd like to know, but be warned that it's most likely still in there (the bug was long-standing iirc). I did enjoy the interface they provide. 14:12:04 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 14:12:18 Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-10-10.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:12:19 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:39 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has joined #lisp 14:13:10 madnificent: thanks for warning. I haven't tried it for large indexes yet. 14:13:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.214.208] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:26 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.Red-95-122-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:14:18 so anyway, how to I get the position of the last point in example this: "Tgfd.tfgdf. gd ? dgdfs.pdf" ? 14:16:04 francogrex: what's wrong with (position #\. "foo.bar.pdf" :from-end t) ? 14:17:11 Kryztof: What is #+sb-doc for? 14:17:49 it's possible to build without sb-doc for an incrementally teenier image 14:18:05 -!- df_ [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:18:16 Kryztof: I didn't see consistent use of it for docstrings. Should it be used universally in sbcl sources? 14:18:50 jdz: nothing. it's ok. I was wanting it to give me 3 as starting count from end, but that I can work out myself using the length of the string ... 14:20:27 francogrex: what would you do with the number 3? 14:21:01 francogrex: if you need the string _after_ the last ".", how about (cl-ppcre:scan-to-strings "\\.(.+?)$" "foo.bar.pdf") ? 14:21:20 i only want to tabulate the length of the extensions in several files for a report 14:22:08 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-zxcruqxldfjwomgm] has joined #lisp 14:22:08 Xach: in an ideal world, probably -- but I have never myself built without :sb-doc 14:22:10 flip214: yes also ok, but no need really i think it's something straightforward and i got confused that's all 14:22:10 francogrex: and what about the number 3? 14:22:38 3 characters from end 14:22:39 Kryztof: ok. my patch did not use #+sb-doc. 14:23:00 francogrex: yes, how would you use the number 3 (and not the actual position in the string)? 14:23:45 i would say x number of file strings had an 3 letters extension ...etc 14:24:30 ... why not coerce to a PATHNAME, call PATHNAME-TYPE, and take the length of the result? 14:25:24 nyef: that might have unindended consequences ... does pathname-type work as expected for directories? 14:25:30 yes could also do that... in the end it's an exercise in futility, don't know what the heck boss wants to do with this... 14:25:55 i think it's just a punishment :( 14:26:20 flip214: what's expected as a result of calling pathname-type on a directory pathname? 14:27:51 jdz: I meant that eg. for "/etc.orig/" (pathname-type) might return an NIL value, as this is a directory ... and I'm not sure whether that might happen without the "/" at the end. Both ways the result would be different than simply looking for the last ".", right? 14:28:10 pathnames involve some bit of parsing/lookup, if I remember correctly ... 14:31:20 df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 14:33:00 Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.242.76] has joined #lisp 14:36:16 flip214: the correct answer is that the consequences are very well defined, and the behaviour of PATHNAME-TYPE when called with a directory pathname will work as specified in the spec 14:37:38 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.242.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:44 jdz: see here: 14:37:46 CL-USER> (pathname-type #P"/usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.8") 14:37:47 "8" 14:37:47 CL-USER> (pathname-type #P"/usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.8/") 14:37:47 NIL 14:38:07 flip214: yes, works as expected. 14:38:13 flip214: Wait, what's the pathname-version on the former? 14:38:22 so it's a difference to "the string after the last dot", right? that's what we had as exercise 14:38:53 CL-USER> (pathname-version #P"/usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.8") 14:38:53 :NEWEST 14:38:53 CL-USER> (pathname-version #P"/usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.8/") 14:38:53 NIL 14:39:11 flip214: your statement was not relevant to "the exercise" 14:39:29 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:39:54 so anyway, how to I get the position of the last point in example this: 14:40:07 and length of (pathname-type) wouldn't have helped then. _That_ 14:40:11 flip214: because the result of POSITION would also differ 14:40:13 is my argument here. 14:40:45 no, position wouldn't mind whether there's a "/" afterwards ... why should it? POSITION operates on a string 14:41:44 of course, the same as PATHNAME-TYPE does not mind that the passed in pathname is a directory pathname or not, it will return different results (same as for POSITION) 14:42:06 nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:25 well, POSITION will return the same result, but the difference from LENGTH of the passed in string will be different 14:42:32 (as per the original question) 14:42:36 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:42:40 CL-USER> (position #\. "/usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.8") 14:42:40 22 14:42:40 CL-USER> (position #\. "/usr/share/doc/libssl0.9.8/") 14:42:40 22 14:43:28 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:43:44 well, I'm just wary of these small things that might give unexpected problems ... like, eg., (pathname-type) of (directory) giving NIL if the entry is a subdirectory, etc 14:43:47 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:44:35 flip214: my point is that the unexpected porblem would occur no matter what is used, POSITION + LENGTH, PATHNAME-TYPE or regular expression 14:44:45 jdz: well, (- (length input) (length (pathname-type input))) would error for a directory ... so the difference will be different, too ;/ 14:45:11 flip214: Why would that cause an error? 14:45:20 flip214: (LENGTH NIL) => 0, surely? 14:45:36 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:01 yes, sorry ... but that's the difference to using a regex or position 14:46:02 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-77.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:46:15 ThomasH [468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:46:26 Greetings lispers 14:46:42 Greetings 14:47:10 *schoppenhauer* currently has to work with agda, though (which is anything but lisp ...) 14:48:06 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:15 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:49:11 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:49:26 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 14:49:37 Sbidicuda [~antani@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:51:32 Brucio-12 [~Brucio-12@adsl-99-190-98-219.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:43 morning 14:52:21 -!- Brucio-12 is now known as slyrus 14:52:58 howdy slyrus 14:53:42 hi 14:55:11 ((complement #'oddp) 1) ;with error 14:56:11 chenbing: the car of a form isn't evaluated like that. 14:56:52 chenbing: (not (= cl scheme)) 14:57:29 daimrod: depends on the values of variables 'cl' and 'scheme' 14:57:36 daimrod: numbers, that is 14:57:49 slyrus: how is beirc doing? 14:57:56 (funcall (complement #'oddp) 1) 14:58:03 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:58:07 this is ok 14:58:10 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:13 Hrm. cl-mysql doesn't have a CLOS mapping? 14:58:18 ok 14:58:51 jdz: (not (= :cl #:scheme)) better ? 14:59:21 daimrod: nope 14:59:25 daimrod: That essentially guarantees an unbound-variable error. 14:59:26 daimrod: that's actually worse 14:59:47 And isn't = for numeric types? 15:00:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:01:37 nha_ [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 15:01:47 oh my... you're right. 15:02:09 daimrod: next time, try saying it in english :) 15:02:29 Or American 15:02:30 H4ns: could be worse 15:02:55 ... Isn't "english" some mutant BASIC variant used in the "Pick" operating system? I seem to recall someone telling me that at one point. 15:03:13 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@74.7.181.194] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:04:02 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:04:16 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 15:07:30 It seems that CL has no full orm supporting in a series of mainstream database 15:07:48 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-128.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:07:53 *nyef* sighs. 15:08:07 good. 15:08:24 ORM is an inherently flawed system. 15:08:34 chenbing: did you actually look at elephant or perec to make that judgement? 15:08:45 chenbing: This is your opportunity for "Fame & Glory"(tm) 15:10:27 ... Is postmodern really the only CL database library with prepared statement support? Both CLSQL and CL-MYSQL claim not to support prepared statements. 15:10:46 -!- nha_ is now known as nha 15:11:47 S1am [~guest@eth-209.20-homell.natm.ru] has joined #lisp 15:11:52 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.88.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:05 ThomasH: oh ,Gavin King almost his Aura 15:12:19 ,Gavin King almost lose his Aura 15:12:52 -!- rvrebane [~rvrebane@valjapaas.vkhk.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:13:27 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:13:47 chenbing: No clue what that means. 15:15:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:40 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:15:42 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:15:43 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 15:16:14 so what will be ejb3 ? a optimistic future? 15:17:33 chenbing: People that use Java and EJB3 will probably have a better idea on its future. We don't really use that with lisp. 15:19:20 em ,I will consider it 15:19:40 see you tomorrow,It's too late for me now 15:22:20 nyef: try hu.dwim.perec 15:22:59 don't try it with sbcl head though. 15:26:10 fe[nl]ix: The documentation on the apparent project page is unreadable. 15:26:24 the documentation is the code! 15:27:55 And the site just threw up a box about a client-side error. 15:28:11 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 15:28:22 Code is Data is Documentation 15:28:23 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:24 My patience has been exceeded. hu.dwim projects need no longer apply. 15:28:52 it's just a quickload & M-. away 15:29:31 nyef: you should ignore http://dwim.hu and check out the repos... 15:29:55 the site got way too little care, not to mention the underlying vm corrupting the fs... 15:30:07 Xach: With a Sufficiently Smart Editor, you could have Code is Data is Documentation. Sort of a literate programming Nirvana. 15:30:31 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-231.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:30:48 or even better, quicklisp-install them! :) 15:31:02 attila_lendvai: Just one quick question before I even consider that. Does it support mysql? 15:32:10 nyef: no. postgres, oracle and sqlite. backends are small though... 15:32:29 jdz: well, it seems to work well enough (that is to say nikodemus' recent thread changes didn't break anything) 15:33:20 jdz: the text encoding problem that drops beirc into the debugger anytime it sees a character code > 255 still exists :( 15:33:44 still, nikodemus' thread changes give me hope that one day beirc will work will on this blasted OS 15:33:45 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:34:36 will work well, that is 15:34:52 Which OS? 15:35:31 MacOS 10.7.2 15:35:49 Mac OS X 10.7.2 is, I think, the correct name 15:39:03 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:39:07 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:40:48 What happens if I redefine a class to add a :metaclass clause? 15:41:30 (I suppose I could try it and see what blows up...) 15:45:13 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:45:15 jtza8_ [~jtza8@41.56.17.101] has joined #lisp 15:45:39 Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:47:08 xan_ [~xan@108.Red-83-34-14.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:27 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:48:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.213.27.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:49:26 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:04 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has joined #lisp 15:53:37 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has quit [Client Quit] 15:55:24 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:58:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:58:58 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 15:59:57 Hmm, this is an obscure error message from sbcl. 16:00:14 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 16:00:42 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:01:24 Obscure error message? 16:01:40 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125860 16:01:45 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953352c.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02:18 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:23 I understand what the real problem is, but the weird error obscures it a bit. 16:04:06 I thought that had been fixed a long time ago. 16:04:41 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 9.0/20111109112850]] 16:04:51 Joreji [~thomas@94-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:05:08 she's been unfixed as of git head 16:05:28 *Xach* can bisect for breakage if helpful 16:06:16 mm... 16:06:44 -!- mensch [~mensch@158.121.107.71] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:07:05 Xach: it's a different manifestation of the same issue. 16:07:33 ok 16:07:49 mensch [~mensch@158.121.107.71] has joined #lisp 16:07:58 fwiw, 1.0.31 has a more meaningful error 16:08:01 -!- mensch [~mensch@158.121.107.71] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:22 superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:08:48 zmv [~daniel@c953352c.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:08:55 pkhuong: Do you recommend filing a bug on launchpad? 16:09:15 Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.242.76] has joined #lisp 16:12:13 *Xach* really loves the new --non-interactive option 16:12:16 Xach: I have a fix. 16:12:30 I might as well file the bug before going off for brunch. 16:13:04 ok, thanks. 16:13:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-056.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:13:53 iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:14:07 marsell [~marsell@120.18.230.185] has joined #lisp 16:14:53 -!- iori [~iori@110-133-45-54.rev.home.ne.jp] has left #lisp 16:17:12 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:17:28 "CTYPE leakage from SETQ" - exactly how i would have put it! 16:17:48 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 16:19:02 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Client Quit] 16:19:05 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:19:08 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@dslb-088-070-060-000.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:19 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 16:19:31 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Client Quit] 16:19:50 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 16:20:17 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-77.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:23 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:37 -!- xan_ [~xan@108.Red-83-34-14.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 16:36:18 -!- tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.254] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:36 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 16:39:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.250.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:39:45 -!- msponge [~msponge@31-33-19.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 16:41:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.128.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:42:44 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:42:46 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 16:43:09 p8m_ [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 16:43:59 -!- p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:44:03 -!- p8m_ [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:08 p8m [~dmm@64.15.82.28] has joined #lisp 16:46:37 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:28 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:49:03 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:54 hey christophe! 16:50:05 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 16:50:14 hmm... wrong window. 16:50:17 damn beirc 16:50:52 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 16:54:17 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 16:55:44 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.242.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:52 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:56:26 peterhil [~peterhil@GZYYYMCX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 16:56:48 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:57:22 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 16:58:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:02:50 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:24 msponge [~msponge@31-33-19.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 17:03:48 drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:03:58 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 17:04:25 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 17:06:24 slyrus: do you chitchat with jeff schrager? 17:08:00 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-fcjevvsflyptcxui] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:08:44 -!- msponge [~msponge@31-33-19.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:08:52 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:09:28 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:17 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:13:52 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@189.115.243.32.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:14:07 Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.242.76] has joined #lisp 17:17:35 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:17:40 -!- H4ns [57a9e3da@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.227.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:20:28 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 17:21:43 Xach: no, but that would be nice. I should. 17:21:43 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:06 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:22:23 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:24:43 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:25:14 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:52 -!- hugod [~hugod@76.65.142.49] has quit [Quit: hugod] 17:27:22 hugod [~hugod@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 17:29:42 situ [~quassel@223.183.136.1] has joined #lisp 17:30:17 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:50 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:33:28 tcr1 [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:58 -!- tcr [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:35:28 -!- Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@188.132.34.194] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:55 marsell_ [~marsell@120.18.200.52] has joined #lisp 17:39:04 steampunkey [4e86827e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.130.126] has joined #lisp 17:39:59 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:40:02 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.230.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:40:02 -!- marsell_ is now known as marsell 17:41:22 H4ns [5b3d4c76@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.76.118] has joined #lisp 17:41:26 grmbl 17:41:31 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-220-223.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:53 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 17:42:41 hey guys. if i want to do an operation on every "eventh" number in a list, in C i'd have the array in memory and then iterate by 2 to do it. i have no option but to car a list twice to get to the "eventh" number in a list, right? that's a bad thing, right? (disclaimer: not trolling, asking if there are alternative approaches) 17:43:06 *in lisp <- that other part 17:43:23 #'oddp, #'evenp, funcall, apply, member ? 17:43:30 steampunkey: (loop for x in list by #'cddr do (something-with x)) 17:43:32 you could use (loop for eventh-elt in list by #'cddr) (-: 17:43:41 steampunkey: Use the LOOP 17:43:43 H4ns! using loop! (: 17:44:01 urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-216-175.unitymediagroup.de] has joined #lisp 17:44:09 antifuchs: there are some loop idioms that are hard to beat. 17:44:13 what abouth every 54th element in a list? 17:44:17 indeed (: 17:44:22 nth ? 17:44:27 yes 17:44:31 steampunkey: you can make a function that CDRs 54 times! 17:44:32 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-219-252.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:33 steampunkey: in Lisp, you would use an array if an array was the right thing to use. 17:44:35 steampunkey: you're doing it wrong if you're representing your data in lists that long. 17:44:43 Xach: o.O 17:44:47 also, what xach and hans say 17:45:20 Yeah, what they say. If xach, H4ns, and antifuchs are all saying it, it's true. 17:45:21 H4ns: what if i have a data blob that comes out of some sensor like that? 17:45:34 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:36 steampunkey: it comes out of a sensor as a list? 17:45:38 steampunkey: the last time i checked data blobs don't come back as linked lists. 17:45:58 if you need random access to a list, you convert it into a vector, do your random access on it, and then if necessary (which it usually isn't) convert back to a list 17:46:09 awww you're too kind, gigamonkey (: 17:46:15 gigamonkey: Do *you* chitchat with jeff schrager? 17:46:16 a vector, huh? 17:46:28 steampunkey: a one-dimensional array 17:46:33 steampunkey: what is it that makes you say "huh" here? 17:46:40 antifuchs: yeah, i know. i just didn't know lisp had it :-P 17:46:50 H4ns: ^ 17:46:51 steampunkey: you are in for a world of delight! 17:46:56 steampunkey: from what do you learn lisp? 17:46:57 common lisp has so much! 17:47:03 "it's a array with one dimension, but that's not important right now" 17:47:13 H4ns: from the stuff by the way 17:47:14 steampunkey: (-: 17:47:20 steampunkey: "the stuff"? 17:47:48 i thread this way right? and then by the way, there's stuff where i learn Lisp from. 17:48:01 Xach: I know him and he sends me random emails from time to time. Why? 17:48:14 steampunkey: i'd recommend that you read a good book on lisp. 17:48:21 gigamonkey: Just wondering how likely I am to get a response regarding adopting larry hunters stats library from him. 17:48:31 Xach; can you briefly tell me about QuickLisp ? 17:48:34 i started with Paul Graham's Common Lisp once (that's a real book afaik), but it was kinda slow. 17:48:35 steampunkey: if you know programming, read pcl. otherwise, read a gentle introduction to common lisp 17:48:42 situ: I'll do it. Use it. 17:48:52 situ: Have you looked at quicklisp.org/beta/ ? that explains much of what i would tell you about it. 17:48:54 minion: tell steampunkey about pcl 17:49:02 damn. gone again. 17:49:12 Well let me see. 17:49:16 steampunkey: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 17:49:25 Graham's books on Lisp may be "kinda slow" but they have the merits of mentioning things like vectors 17:49:34 maybe you should have read it more carefully 17:49:51 gigamonkey: tsc tsc, merchandising your own book? :P 17:49:57 i like scheme more though. i don't like dirty functional dialects. sec, lemme just hide behind here. there. go ahead. 17:50:12 steampunkey: you may leave now, thank you. 17:50:27 Xach: I think he'd probably reply. 17:50:29 O.O 17:50:37 H4ns: that bad, huh? 17:50:38 zmv: he loses money every time someone reads it on the web, but makes up for it in volume 17:50:59 steampunkey: there's a channel for discussing scheme if that's what you're into. 17:51:00 Or I could forward on an email for you with my endorsement if you're asking for something hard. 17:51:27 gigamonkey: i'll be patient 17:51:37 gigamonkey: i emailed him and will wait 17:52:07 Xach: i guess it's because of MIT, but I get the feeling people who do scheme know less about lisp programming than common-lispers. 17:52:31 steampunkey: that is because they are scheme programmers, not lisp programmers. 17:52:48 steampunkey: it is like the basic programmers, who know less about pascal programming than pascal programmers. 17:53:10 H4ns: well, common scheme is a dialect too. or do you mean to say it's a subset of lisp, whereas cl is a superset? 17:53:22 "common scheme" I lol'd 17:53:26 steampunkey: just so you know, around here "Lisp" means Common Lisp and historically there have been folks who denied that Scheme is actually a Lisp. 17:53:39 Though I find that last a bit obtuse. 17:53:41 H4ns: since I know BASIC and have read pascal code, that's way off. 17:53:58 steampunkey: please get a clue or leave. 17:54:05 steampunkey: if your next remark is not on-topic, you will be removed from this conversation 17:54:12 Ouch. 17:54:21 pkhuong: was that Prodigy song, "Fire starter" about you? 17:54:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:54:32 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Kryztof 17:54:35 -!- Kryztof has set mode +b *!4e86827e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.130.126 17:54:44 xan_ [~xan@75.Red-95-122-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:54:52 -!- steampunkey [4e86827e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.130.126] has left #lisp 17:55:01 heh 17:55:12 -!- Kryztof has set mode -b *!4e86827e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.134.130.126 17:57:29 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:58:57 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:00:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:02:43 -!- ignas [~ignas@85-206-22-190.static.zebra.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:05:41 iok [~user@h-205-141.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 18:07:43 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:07:59 H4ns: is there any intention of merging hunchensocket and hunchentoot? i saw on the github for example that they changed the license for `integration' 18:10:23 dsp_: yes, i would like to see that integrated. but i'm a bit demotivated by gigamonkeys great work. 18:10:49 oh? 18:11:02 i am not aware of what you speak 18:11:25 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-220-223.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 18:11:42 i was just looking at what was available, with hunchensocket and ht-simple-ajax, etc. haven't used them yet. 18:11:51 dsp_: gigamonkey is refactoring hunchentoot, and it may be better to wait for that rather than making the hunchentoot hairball even hairier 18:12:01 oh, right. neat. 18:12:52 i look forward to seeing the next releases, then 18:14:34 -!- iok [~user@h-205-141.a146.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:15:01 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:15:43 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:15:50 dsp_: what is hunchensocket? 18:17:14 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:34 gigamonkey: websockets for hunchentoot. https://github.com/e-user/hunchensocket 18:18:06 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:18:36 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 18:18:57 -!- slyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-99-190-98-219.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:19:02 dsp_: Did you write it? 18:19:04 also to note: https://github.com/e-user/hunchen.io 18:19:07 nah, not at all 18:19:26 just been following it, with the idea of eventually trying it out 18:19:33 It'd be interesting to see what would be involved in getting it running on top of Toot. 18:19:41 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-77.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:19:45 -!- beslyrus [~Brucio-12@adsl-99-190-98-219.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:20:36 heh, i've not heard it called toot before. unfortunate double meaning with slang there ;) 18:20:49 dsp_: it is a new project 18:21:11 Take Hunchentoot and remove 66% or so 18:21:16 then some very unfortunate, or deliberate, naming 18:21:16 -!- drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 18:21:28 Unfortunate how? 18:21:35 given that a toot generally refers to exhalations from ones backside 18:22:00 It will hurt adoption in the 5 to 13 year old Lisp hacker demographic 18:22:11 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:11 When I think Toot I think of a cheerful train whistle. 18:22:29 we say choo-choo goes the train 18:22:43 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:47 toooooot tooot tooooooooooooot, chuff chuff chuff..... 18:22:53 lol 18:22:54 *shrug*. 18:23:04 Must be a canadian thing. 18:23:08 british 18:23:14 or, you mean you? 18:23:17 Xach: you think that would *hurt* adoption with five-year-olds? 18:23:31 chenbing` [~user@125.118.7.72] has joined #lisp 18:23:52 verb:toot, noun:toot, sound:toot ? 18:24:00 gigamonkey: well, maybe not. 18:24:00 anyway, it's not like i'm exposing the name to external individuals anyway. as long as it's not shoving "powered by toot" at people then i'm happy 18:24:37 assoc:train ? 18:24:42 hmmmm 18:24:45 Okay, I'm supposed to be able to take a "#!" in a URL and replace it with "_escaped_fragment_" and get something meaningful from the server, right? 18:24:51 homie: hunchen:toot? 18:25:20 gigamonkey: I've wondered about that lately. where is it described? 18:25:28 dsp_: Most folks will probably want to use Whistle or something else built on top of Toot. 18:25:42 god, i am out of the loop these days 18:25:42 Xach: here's one place http://code.google.com/web/ajaxcrawling/docs/getting-started.html 18:25:48 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 18:25:54 *akovalenko* is overwhelmed by assembly manifests, activation contexts and other mscoree stuff. How do we say "I don't need anything but good old MSVCRT 6.0, but if I LoadLibrary and it has a manifest, please load its sxs dependencies"? 18:26:19 i've been adding all my own plumbing ontop of hunchentoot 1.1.1 for the last few months 18:26:25 didn't even know whistle existed 18:26:38 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:52 dsp_: well, it didn't until late last week 18:27:03 aha. fair enough 18:27:29 It's not really ready for prime time yet but I'm getting to the point of building my own sites on top of Whistle which will shake out various things. 18:27:55 i'm actually using your bcrypt module for my own authentication stuff on ht 18:28:07 Excellent. 18:28:10 -!- chenbing [~user@125.118.7.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:28:13 and sticking sessions in psql, rather than using the built in stuff. never did wrap my head around that 18:28:32 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:29:05 ... whistle? What? 18:29:07 is toot compatible with, say, sticking nginx or another lightweight handler like antiweb infront of it? right now i'm redirecting 404s to a hunchentoot backend 18:29:27 *akovalenko* hoped to steal some winfu power from clozure cl, but it seems like they don't care enough to even _have_ a manifest. 18:29:46 nyef: https://github.com/gigamonkey/whistle 18:29:59 akovalenko: Meaning that they'll probably swipe yours once you have one. 18:30:01 dsp_: you're not using HT's session authentication at all? I did persistent sessions (to postgres). 18:30:09 dsp_: should be. It's just a web server. 18:30:34 The main goal of Toot was to strip down Hunchentoot until I could understand it and to throw out anything I didn't feel like I needed. 18:30:41 sykopomp: not at all. i have my own session handling code with cookies + db backend 18:30:46 gigamonkey: Like... content-length headers? 18:30:57 nyef: well, that was a bit of cut into the bone. ;-) 18:31:16 It provides a very bare-bones HTTP server with a stupidly simple API for hooking in your own code to handle requests. 18:31:39 https://github.com/sykopomp/sykosomatic/blob/develop/src/session.lisp There's not much that needs to be done to hook it up to HT once you have that much. 18:31:53 Then Whistle builds a bit of infrastructure on top of Toot to make it easy to set up a server that can be configured with a config file rather than code. 18:31:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@GZYYYMCX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:32:16 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:18 sykopomp: what i'm wondering about however is whether the persistent sessions will allow me to statelessly loadbalance 18:32:27 sykopomp: i've really not looked into it enough to tell 18:32:46 In theory if someone really liked the Hunchentoot API (easy-handlers, etc.) they should be able to build it on top of Toot just as Whistle is. 18:33:09 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:33:26 dsp_: why wouldn't persistent sessions allow that? You make a database trip on every http request, so as long as you don't have some stuff you save in-memory, you're probably fine, no? 18:34:01 then i suppose i am not sure what the hunchentoot sessions offer over what i have right now. i am not sure what they are for 18:34:29 i had assumed they were just an in-memory session store of some kind 18:34:43 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 18:35:12 dsp_: the default HT sessions are, yes, but they're not persistent. 18:36:01 gigamonkey: How many of the basics does toot provide in its API? Setting return codes? Redirects? Parsing incoming parameters into string alists? 18:36:13 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:51 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 18:37:47 superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:12 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:38:24 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:18 sykopomp: all of those. 18:39:33 Some of them I think it does more easily than Hunchentoot. 18:39:53 Though I can't think of a convincing example at the moment. 18:42:11 ehu [~erik@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:42:17 msxx [~msxx@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 18:44:35 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 18:45:27 sykopomp: basically I don't think I got rid of any capabilities as far as getting information about the request or setting things that affect the response. 18:45:46 i think that's pretty much all i'm using 18:46:14 Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.208.205] has joined #lisp 18:46:21 One change is that the request object now, instead of script-name and query-string slots has a single request-uri slot which holds a puri:uri object. 18:46:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.69] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 18:46:45 redirect, cookie-in, post-parameter, set-cookie, and other such building blocks 18:47:00 gigamonkey: do you put the incoming Host: header into the puri:uri, too? 18:47:12 -!- msxx [~msxx@76.73.16.26] has quit [Client Quit] 18:47:19 -!- situ [~quassel@223.183.136.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:47:22 H4ns: I don't at the moment. I could if that seems like The Right Thing. 18:47:23 msxx [~msx@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 18:47:28 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:47:36 Though based on 2 seconds of thought, I'm not sure it is. 18:47:48 (if not there, is it accessible elsewhere?) 18:48:00 All the incoming headers are available. 18:48:04 dsp_: sure, it is in the Host: header in any case 18:48:26 true enough. *drinks more tea* 18:48:35 hello. I did something (I believe I just updated defpclass), and now elephant is storing every instance twice. even if I create new instances they seem to be duplicated. what's up with that? I'm checking with (get-instances-by-class 'class-name) 18:48:36 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.242.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:43 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-udptcmyhqokpcrip] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:49:13 gigamonkey: i'm not sure it is, but my line of thought is that the application often wants to know the complete url that has been requested. 18:49:16 Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.208.205] has joined #lisp 18:49:33 gigamonkey: it is easy to implement that in a higher-level server anyway. 18:49:53 The reason I hesitate is that I think some requests for proxy servers come in "fully-qualified" (i.e. http://example.com/foo.html) 18:50:09 I wouldn't want to make regular requests look like they had come in that way. 18:50:38 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.208.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:51:29 I'm wondering if it's ever really useful to query the current value of an outgoing cookie. I mean, you just set it, right. 18:53:29 -!- Sbidicuda [~antani@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:37 nicdev_` [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:49 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.208.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:00 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 18:57:14 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:00:09 Hmm, I think I can remove the "How is quicklisp different from asdf-install" faq entry. 19:00:41 Xach: why, because everyone knows? 19:01:16 It seems like people who used asdf-install have switched and new people don't get recommended asdf-install in the first place. Whatever the reason, I don't get asked about it any more. 19:01:20 Maybe I'll just move it to the bottom. 19:01:53 And change the answer to, "It's not dead." 19:03:08 snearch [~snearch@e178190081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:04:58 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:05:17 yeah, to be fair, i started using CL post-quicklisp and have never used asdf-install for anything 19:05:25 not sure if that's good or bad 19:05:32 That's good. 19:05:41 i should probably know how it works, however 19:05:47 dsp_: no need. 19:06:20 I started using CL long before quicklisp and never used any thing other than my browser, tar, and ASDF to install libraries until Quicklisp came along. 19:06:41 Welllll 19:06:50 It's interesting to know how it worked from a historical perspective, I think. 19:06:52 Sicrus [~Sicrus@150.108.232.69] has joined #lisp 19:06:59 Is 0 always a legal second argument to file-position? 19:07:06 (as an aside, is monkeylib-bcrypt ql-installable yet? last time i tried it, i had to drop it manually) 19:07:20 It might help in the future if you ever wonder about some of Quicklisp's design decisions. 19:07:38 monkeylib-bcrypt isn't in there. 19:07:57 Hmm I'm trying to use hunchentoot. I've tried the example with (say-to :uri "/yo) but it didn't work, it 404. 19:08:02 Xach: you can consider it "released" for the next dist update. 19:08:29 I'll be happy to tag it if you'd like. 19:08:30 daimrod: use 'easy-acceptor instead of 'acceptor 19:09:00 daimrod: edi promised to update the docs on weitz.de, but did not do it yet :( 19:09:03 gigamonkey: doesn't build for me. libbcrypt isn't in debian? 19:09:03 H4ns: you mean, when I start hunchentoot ? (make-instance 'easy-acceptor .. ) ? 19:09:05 *Xach* googles around 19:09:13 daimrod: affirmative 19:09:16 Xach: no, it isn't unfortunately 19:09:28 Xach: gigamonkey also provides another repo with bits stripped out of openwall iirc 19:10:11 H4ns: is there a way to list acceptors ? 19:10:33 daimrod: what do you mean by "list", show instances? subclasses? 19:10:46 show instances, so I can stop it 19:11:06 Xach: https://github.com/gigamonkey/openwall-bcrypt -- make library did it for me, i believe 19:11:21 Oh, that's right. It requires mucking around with building C code which may disqualify it from Quicklisp. 19:11:33 is it normal that I have duplicated defpclass instances in (elephant:get-instances-by-class 'class-name)? objects that are eq. 19:11:42 gigamonkey: is there any way around that, realistically? 19:11:52 msxx: maybe the elephant list can help 19:11:53 gigamonkey: i mean, any foreign interface would require the local system to have the library right? 19:11:59 every object I create appears twice in that list 19:12:02 daimrod: no. you'll have to put the acceptor into a variable yourself 19:12:14 MimiEA [~Mimi@199.17.55.138] has joined #lisp 19:12:22 Dsp_ thanks on your note wrt #abcl 19:12:27 no problemo 19:12:32 dsp_: I don't know. Probably with more work the openwall-bcrypt stuff could be packaged up with enough ASDF magic so it could be built and installed as necessary. 19:12:36 But I don't know about that. 19:12:52 ehu: Who should I alert about out-of-date links on the abcl home page? 19:12:54 H4ns: okay, thanks. 19:13:09 Xach: me 19:13:18 gigamonkey: i don't mind foreign library installs if they aren't hard to instal 19:13:21 gigamonkey: i'd imagine it'd require some library path magic, since for example i don't typically install stuff as root from sbcl 19:13:36 gigamonkey: i strongly prefer something i can apt-get install, but a ./configure && make && make install isn't too rough. 19:13:48 plus i'm not so sure about the sanity of having QL going and grabbing missing library files 19:13:55 ehu: the link to the release notes goes to a page about 0.27 19:14:01 Xach: yeah, I think at the moment my openwall-bcrypt is just a bit more manual than that. 19:14:03 yeah, would be nice to have a debian package, honestly. might dust off the old developer manuals 19:14:19 i wrapped it in a shellscript, i think, for my application 19:14:24 Thanks. Is that the only one\ 19:14:26 And may only work on Linux. 19:14:31 ? 19:14:33 went and grabbed all dependencies, built openwall-bcrypt, shoved a bunch of things where they needed to be 19:14:33 ehu: That is the only one I noticed. 19:14:42 gigamonkey, if you like, i can test on other platforms sometime 19:14:56 dsp_: feel free. Pull requests accepted. 19:14:57 i have most bsds kicking around somewhere 19:16:13 If you wanted to figure out what was required to make ./configure && make && make install DTRT, that'd be awesome. 19:16:32 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:17:37 i'll have a crack this weekend 19:18:18 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:19:52 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:07 Cool. 19:21:08 chromaticwt [~user@71-222-128-203.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:45 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:27:25 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-77.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 19:29:41 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:31:49 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3F26.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:32:18 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:32:47 benny [~benny@i577A3C41.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:32:50 centipedefarmer [~centipede@74-84-107-90.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 19:34:59 -!- Sicrus [~Sicrus@150.108.232.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:35:20 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.18.107] has joined #lisp 19:37:54 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:40:11 Sicrus [~Sicrus@150.108.238.48] has joined #lisp 19:40:22 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:44:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.207.97] has joined #lisp 19:47:49 josemanuel [~josemanue@31.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 19:48:45 gigamonkey: do you think you might blog about toot sometime? 19:49:08 -!- jtza8_ [~jtza8@41.56.17.101] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:17 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@199.17.55.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:54:06 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 19:54:14 -!- msxx [~msx@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 19:55:08 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:28 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 20:02:45 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 20:03:32 -!- Sicrus [~Sicrus@150.108.238.48] has left #lisp 20:04:32 -!- ehu [~erik@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:05:06 anyone here use restas? 20:05:20 Xach: I may well. 20:05:32 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:05:54 Ober: some do, but not many in this channel that i know of 20:06:17 typo_ [524de735@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.77.231.53] has joined #lisp 20:06:28 trying to learn clisp and figure the web stuff will be a great avenue 20:08:04 could be. i use hunchentoot for web stuff. works nicely. 20:08:24 Ober: what prompted you to pick clisp? 20:08:38 sbcl 20:08:48 Doh! 20:08:58 Ober: ouch! why? 20:08:59 "common lisp" 20:09:05 I don't know better 20:09:19 *Xach* is confused now 20:09:32 Ober: clisp isn't a good abbreviation for common lisp 20:09:37 ok 20:09:47 try CL 20:09:49 clisp is up there with asdf-install as far as confusing names goes 20:10:03 ok 20:11:52 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:57 Xach: how about GNU Common Lisp vs GNU CLISP? 20:13:09 is there anything wrong with this tiny code? (apart from being inefficient and ugly, i know...) 20:13:10 There's nothing confusing about gcl 20:13:13 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125863 20:13:19 dlowe: Golden Common Lisp? 20:13:21 is there a preferred lisp? 20:13:26 that is not based on the jvm? :P 20:13:42 Ober: different folks prefer different ones. 20:13:43 typo_: you're representing a board as nested lists. That's pretty awful 20:13:45 dlowe: well just that they are both 'GNU' 20:13:50 Lots of folks around here use SBCL. 20:13:51 Ober: most people who use common lisp use SBCL. 20:14:00 dlowe: yeah, i know 20:14:08 sacho [~sacho@90-154-148-222.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:14:11 Ober: pretty much all implementations have a supportive group of people who can help you if you choose it. 20:14:22 if i would have time i'd code it properly 20:14:25 Ober: There are several preferred non-jvm lisps, depending on who you ask. I'm sure there are some clozure common lisp partisans around somewhere. 20:15:09 typo_: it'll do what you think it should, I believe 20:15:11 what are some names so I can go trend them? 20:15:14 *Xach* likes, uses SBCL, the CL with the heart of gold! 20:15:39 dlowe: instead of replacing 2 elements, it replaces a whole ... column, meaning col2 of every sublist 20:15:51 maybe it's a bug in clisp 20:15:52 typo_: oh, right. haha 20:15:54 no 20:16:01 o_o 20:16:12 i have no idea! 20:16:37 can you explain what's wrong? it should be something awful 20:16:52 typo_: you're setting the value of the nth car in the list returned by the second NTH 20:17:47 hugoduncan [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 20:18:04 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:18:09 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 20:18:14 Ober: Don't worry about trends, pick a Lisp implementation and start learning. -> http://www.lispmachine.net/ is a page of lisp references. 20:18:38 thanks. practical common lisp is my guide 20:18:53 dlowe: yeah but it replaces more than one list (nth should return one single sublist) 20:19:15 it's something weird 20:19:30 francogrex [~user@109.130.88.227] has joined #lisp 20:19:37 ThomasH: that link is easy to remember but the data is a bit outdated 20:19:41 Ober: You aren't going to pick a "wrong" implementation, they'll all work equally well for your introduction. When you know enough lisp to need a specific implementation, you'll have enough knowledge at that point to pick the specific one.. 20:20:07 SBCL is the right implementation. 20:20:25 Xach: Yeah, April 2011 is a little stale, but I didn't think it was too bad. Does it reference quicklisp? Is that your concern? 20:20:46 ThomasH: No, it talks about "OpenMCL" when it's been called Clozure CL for several years. 20:21:08 ThomasH: linking to bill clementson's book page results in stale info (bill's page doesn't have Practical Common Lisp on it, e.g.) 20:21:22 PLT Scheme is now Racket 20:21:24 that kind of thing 20:21:35 typo_: it actually works for me 20:21:55 Xach: Ok, looks might an email with corrections and changes might be in order. Maybe that page needs to translated to a cliki page. 20:22:22 typo_: you psyched me out :p 20:22:29 Xach: Strip out the non-CL stuff. 20:22:59 dlowe: thanks for testing it. after i run the function, i cannot even re-populate the board variable 20:23:19 ThomasH: possibly 20:23:38 Ugh, just went to the CLiki home page and started following links, the first link I followed off of the site was dead. 20:23:39 dlowe: i do (setf *board* nil) then i do (push '(0 0 0 ...)) repeatedly but it stays the same 20:23:56 typo_: don't use literal lists for this 20:24:07 typo_: you shouldn't be modifying lists that you make via quoting 20:24:12 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@74-84-107-90.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:24:39 ahh 20:24:46 ThomasH: cliki could use some love. or maybe some tough love. 20:24:48 typo_: (loop repeat 5 collect (make-list 5 :initial-element 0)) 20:25:12 Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.101.17] has joined #lisp 20:25:37 Hi, is there a "lispy" way that I can copy text from a pdf file programatically? 20:25:45 *gigamonkey* wonders how long lisp.org is going to be the picture of McCarthy with no way to get anywhere else on the site. 20:25:48 Xach: Appears so. I don't have time to work on CLiki pages at the moment. I have a project due at the end of the month that is advancing glacially. On that note, WTH am I doing here? 20:25:49 francogrex: cl-pdf includes a pdf parser. 20:25:57 dlowe: thanks! i'll try that. i should learn (loop) someday :D 20:26:12 gigamonkey: Isn't the site as a whole more up-to-date that way, though? 20:26:58 nyef: It is. I'm not saying it would be a bad thing. I'm just wondering if it'll still be like that in a year or so. 20:27:15 dlowe: trying to figure out a variation of (mapcar 'make-list (make-list 5 :initial-element 5)) that works 20:27:36 gigamonkey: like generalissimo francisco franco 20:27:38 Xach: ah cool I will try. Because I have a file that contains side margin as text and if I copy the pages 'manually' (highlight and copy text) I can't separate the main text from the margins text... I hope cl-pdf allows these tricks 20:27:49 francogrex: doubtful 20:28:39 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: goodbye blue sky, goodbye] 20:29:19 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 20:29:26 :( 20:29:53 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Client Quit] 20:30:36 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:30:38 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 20:31:34 francogrex: PDF page descriptions can be quite low-level. 20:31:35 francogrex: That is what freelancing websites are for. 20:31:43 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:31:55 *Xach* has used Mechanical Turk to get data out of PDFs before 20:32:02 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32EFD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:32:36 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953352c.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:33:57 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:34:43 I don't know. Yes it's true that there are more experienced programmers for this specific task... I just wanted to try, it's not worth paying someone to do it, not an important thing for me 20:35:29 francogrex: No, the point is to pay someone a very low wage to read and transcribe the data you need. 20:35:38 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:50 Not to pay a highly-skilled hacker to write the program you can't. 20:37:11 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 20:37:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-196.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:48 dlowe: thanks, now it works and it's prettier too 20:39:06 jeez! where are those workers getting low wages for such a miserable task in China? (or should I say the US now) 20:39:25 zmv [~daniel@c953352c.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:39:29 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@31.252.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:40:24 What a country! 20:41:22 -!- Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:41:55 Not China so much as India and other southeast Asian countries. The Chinese don't have that large of a presence on the freelancing sites I troll. 20:42:50 Nisstyre [~yours@infocalypse-net.info] has joined #lisp 20:43:43 -!- billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:46:18 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-135-118.w86-207.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:35 nyef: any idea why the bots are offline? 20:49:11 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [] 20:49:30 I did start restart the lisppaste process after the crash last night. 20:49:49 and I also verified that the process is actually running atm. 20:51:00 They timed out. 20:51:12 joseph_ [~duomo@120-dcmp11.goeaston.net] has joined #lisp 20:51:25 And since they don't notice when they disconnect, they don't know to try and reconnect. 20:51:39 That's something that's been on my list to attempt to sort out for some time now. 20:53:42 ... don't they have to respond to ping events? 20:55:13 -!- duomo [~duomo@120-dcmp11.goeaston.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:59:26 They do, but if there's massive lag or other network effects going on, then they might not be able to in time. 20:59:44 Or if the server they're connected to goes down, same thing. They can't tell that they've been disconnected. 20:59:50 nyef: yeah, but can't you setup a timer on that to detect desync? 21:00:24 how should I store a set of 216 entries of form ((x y z) value)? 21:00:27 i will have to retrieve as quickly as possible the value by the key (x y z) 21:00:41 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.173.229] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:09 p_l: Heck, we should be able to do it with an appropriate fd-handler. The point is that we -don 21:01:12 't- yet. 21:01:28 Hence, on my list to fix. 21:01:37 typo_: a hash table is one easy way. 21:01:38 MimiEA [~Mimi@199.17.55.138] has joined #lisp 21:02:06 depends on the values of x, y and z. 21:02:33 pkhuong: small integers 21:02:39 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:02:45 hopefully 21:03:53 typo_: What you have against a 3D array? 21:04:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:53 hm, a 3d array should work! 21:05:22 *ThomasH* wins the "Mr. Obvious Suggestion" award for the day. 21:05:33 Although, the day's not over, yet. 21:05:41 :D i was thinking more about the values of x,y,z as pkhuong mentioned though 21:06:07 meaning, i hope i can solve it with integers 21:07:06 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:07:30 typo_: My suggestion was based on several assumptions. If those assumptions aren't valid, you may want to consider something other than an array. 21:07:35 gabnet [~gabnet@245.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:53 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.88.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:09:13 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.173.229] has joined #lisp 21:09:24 yes, i understand that 21:09:31 i'm going to steal some cpu power and i don't know where from. either from number operations, or from searching this list 21:09:42 i'll try arrays first 21:10:31 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:10:52 if not, i'll try xach's suggestion (thanks) 21:11:35 slime-people-here-p 21:15:04 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:41 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:18:13 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:03 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:19:22 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-192-231.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:19:42 akovalenko: Maybe. 21:20:46 *Ober* ponders how bad elisp is in the scope of lisp* 21:20:56 Ober: there is no better language for extending emacs 21:21:32 there is no better language for extending GNU emacs :-) 21:22:12 hmm so it's an editor that comes with it? nice 21:22:48 Kryztof: as opposed to xemacs/sxemacs? 21:24:27 As opposed to Zmacs, Hemlock, Climacs, or any other emacs not written primarily in emacs lisp. 21:24:48 tcr1: in swank-sbcl / brief-compiler-message-for-emacs, it makes sense to bind *print-circle* to nil, or SBCL compiler notes look funny when it's T globally. 21:24:51 o|O 21:25:15 *akovalenko* is unsure of swank-sbcl / compiler-error-context.. 21:25:22 I seem to recall a new guile-based version of gnu emacs. So it may not even be good for that anymore 21:28:10 dlowe: forks aren't enough to fight inertia ;) 21:31:46 given the amount of time sunk into code written in elisp, I doubt there's anything which will ever be enough... 21:31:48 agspathis [~user@150.140.228.109] has joined #lisp 21:32:27 -!- agspathis [~user@150.140.228.109] has quit [Client Quit] 21:34:48 PROPH3CY_ [4c474ef2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.71.78.242] has joined #lisp 21:34:59 hello everyone 21:35:59 i was wondering if someone could tell me the difference of lisp and scheme, and any good hard copy books that i can get to learn lisp (for absolute programming beginners) 21:36:14 -!- chromaticwt [~user@71-222-128-203.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:36:16 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125867 21:36:56 msponge [~msponge@31-34-191.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 21:37:04 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:39:58 am i connected to this channel? 21:40:05 yes 21:40:06 No 21:40:20 :D 21:41:09 Harag: you need to create an hunchentoot:easy-dispatcher, not a hunchentoot:dispatcher 21:41:26 At the risk of bringing the wrath of Xah Lee on my head, Sceme is Lisp-1 and CL is Lisp-2, the rest are details. 21:41:32 yes, the documentation at weitz.de is outdated. please nag edi. 21:41:41 thanx 21:41:49 thought i was going crazy 21:42:14 PROPH3CY_: If you google "scheme vs. lisp", you'll find plenty to read. 21:42:56 or rather, "scheme vs common lisp" 21:43:47 PROPH3CY_: You could always work through "How to Design Programs" -> http://www.htdp.org/ and start by learning Scheme. 21:44:18 sicp > htdp 21:44:36 zmv: Getting to that, we're starting from the basics. 21:44:49 SICP is basic, isn't it? 21:44:57 -!- PROPH3CY_ [4c474ef2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.71.78.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:45:09 PROPH3CY_: Then you could work through "Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs" -> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book.html 21:45:15 Still scheme 21:45:24 Basic for people who qualified for admission to MIT. 21:45:48 zmv: maybe, depends on your background. 21:46:20 Oh, he left. 21:47:44 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 21:47:53 Has anyone reviewed "Common Lisp: An Interactive Approach" -> http://www.cse.buffalo.edu/~shapiro/Commonlisp/toc.html ? Is is a good introduction to programming using CL? 21:48:18 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0102da.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:43 hi 21:48:52 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:16 I should have said that SICP wasn't written for beginning programmers. It was written as an intro text for students at MIT. I believe one of the authors made that distinction in an interview. 21:50:52 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:50:57 austinh: many of which students are beginning programmers 21:51:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.Red-95-122-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:33 peddie: an explicit design goal was to equalize away previous programming experience. 21:51:38 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:51:52 nyef: I have some network connection monitoring code for a bot of mine: http://hix.nu/svn-public/alexis/trunk/alexis/monitor.lisp it does exactly what you want: monitor a cl-irc connection's ping events. 21:52:23 H4ns: i take it you meant an easy-acceptor, because that works 21:52:24 and it also implements flood control 21:52:27 pkhuong: true, but I don't think that makes it bad for beginning programmers . . . 21:52:33 I actually want to monitor the socket to see if it appears in the select() "exception set". 21:52:41 Harag: i meant it, sorry. 21:52:57 nop figured it out 21:53:00 Harag: now that things are working, you can also access the documentation on your own server. 21:53:09 nyef: hmm. that it doesn't do. 21:53:26 I'll take a look at it when I get the time. 21:53:45 *nyef* is knee-deep in the postgresql documentation. 21:55:25 hugodunc` [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 21:57:00 H4ns: is the documentation in that comes with the code up to date? because that says you can use acceptor or one of its subclasses unless I am miss reading/understanding it 21:57:32 -!- hugodunc` [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:33 Harag: it is up to date in that it is the latest version, but it may contain bugs. 21:58:23 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:23 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:59:47 Harag: you can use the acceptor class, but you'll not have the easy-handlers framework if you do. does the documentation say something different? 22:00:44 no not if you put it that way 22:01:45 so the change is that the *dispatch-table* is now part of the easy handler framework? 22:02:07 nanoc [~conanhome@server.199.148.itcsa.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 Harag: correct. 22:02:44 and all the create-* functions to 22:03:49 Harag: also correct. i've pondered putting all of that into a separate package, but ... 22:04:23 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@245.23.67.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 22:06:25 H4ns: is that the only thing that really breaks backwards compatibility? or are there other gotchas? 22:06:36 pnq [~nick@AC834264.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:56 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:13 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:07:38 Harag: there are other, finer points. you may want to look into recent mailing list posts, i posted a list of known issues. 22:08:39 H4ns: I converted the cvs of the cl.net website to git. Where do I put it? 22:09:12 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.200.52] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:09:32 i'd just put it into the web directory. if you don't like that, put it into /project/clo-devel maybe? 22:10:01 HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82a864.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:10:03 H4ns: thanx, I should be ok I mostly stuck to easy-handlers and the basics in most of my stuff 22:10:17 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:10:21 H4ns: ok 22:10:45 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:14:18 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:14:48 hi, is there a tree in standard common lisp library? like make-hash-table but make-tree-table 22:14:52 -!- hugoduncan [~user@76.65.142.49] has left #lisp 22:15:07 logarithmic access time, and comparable keys (e.g. integers) 22:15:25 get-lowest-key, all-keys-between etc. 22:15:26 there's TREES, or FSet. 22:15:28 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:15:30 H4ns: there is a subversion dir in /project/clo. Do you know anything about it? It seems abandoned. 22:15:37 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:48 pkhuong: is it a library? 22:15:51 prxq: no. if it is old, i'd chmod 0 it. 22:16:13 puchacz: yes. 22:16:24 quicklisp:quickloadable? 22:16:28 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:16:37 -!- S1am [~guest@eth-209.20-homell.natm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:16:47 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@199.17.55.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:16:54 puchacz: only one way to find out. 22:17:03 just did it 22:17:26 pkhuong: actually no. if you think about it, the only way to find out *is* finding out. 22:17:40 hugodunc` [~user@76.65.142.49] has joined #lisp 22:17:54 H4ns: ok 22:17:55 which one? bk-tree, cl-btree-0.5, spatial-trees, trees, vcs-tree? 22:18:00 so "only one way to find out" is actually a meaningless sentence in that context. 22:18:11 trees? 22:18:11 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 22:19:09 ok, got it 22:19:52 thx 22:21:05 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:23:18 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:52 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:26:19 hiredman [~hiredman@ip67-152-53-125.z53-152-67.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 22:26:48 is there a way to get format to human format numbers like 'du -h' does? 22:27:13 hiredman: ~/human:readable/ 22:27:28 or maybe ~/readable:disk-usage/ 22:28:26 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:28:54 excellent, thanks 22:29:10 hm. I have a subdirectory in a git repo that I want to extract as a stand alone project. How would you do that while preserving as much history as possible? 22:29:20 provided that the readable package exists, and contains a disk-usage function (-: 22:29:33 hiredman: well, kind of tongue in cheek. you have to write it yourself. 22:29:36 pkhuong: Clone and then delete? 22:29:50 pkhuong: sounds like subtree merge could do it, possibly 22:30:42 pkhuong: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/920165/howto-extract-a-git-subdirectory-and-make-a-submodule-out-of-it 22:30:43 Xach: ah, I see, well then 22:30:54 thanks! 22:30:57 pkhuong: i hate to say it, but that was google "git extract subtree" 22:31:02 H4ns: do you know anything about the workings of /custom/bin ? there's a _darcs AND an RCS subdir... 22:31:15 prxq: there also is a git repository 22:31:24 H4ns: aha - where? 22:31:34 prxq: everybody uses what he's comfortable with, basically. 22:31:39 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:32:02 pkhuong: the second-highest ranked answer, git-subtree is probably what you want 22:32:06 H4ns: Wish I spent time looking for that. My git-foo is weak and I generally just get by with the sledgehammer approach. 22:32:06 H4ns: all in the same directory, it seems :-) 22:32:06 prxq: right in that directory? or did i give up that thought? :) 22:32:21 H4ns: it's right in that dir. 22:32:21 prxq: certainly! 22:32:23 :) 22:32:31 antifuchs: reading the reviews on Amazon of BUGS. Sounds terrible. 22:32:39 aw 22:32:49 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 22:33:02 *gigamonkey* is contemplating writing a writing book for geeks 22:34:14 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:34:16 gigamonkey: BUGS is more of a writing style book; not sure if you meant something like that or something like the King one 22:34:19 H4ns: how do we avoid chaos? 22:34:27 H4ns: I was hoping there was something even easier. 22:35:09 prxq: up until now, chaos was not a serious problem, practically. 22:35:30 antifuchs: Well, they all exist on a continuum from highly detailed explanations of "rules" (often made up) to vague but inspirational. 22:35:38 H4ns: ok, I see. 22:35:48 gigamonkey: For technical writing, I was long ago directed to NASA SP-7010. It's 25 pages, that's probably all you can expect a geek to devote to reading about writing. 22:35:50 prxq: i understand what you say, though. 22:35:55 Probably the reason Strunk & White is so popular is that it contains both. 22:35:58 gigamonkey: well, strunk&white would inspire you to write less, I guess (: 22:36:08 H4ns: RCS has me the most nervous :-) 22:36:31 prxq: thing is, the volunteers are few and as such, it is best to cater for all of them in terms of personal preference. 22:36:39 prxq: that was binghe's idea. 22:36:49 BUGS was the first style book that I read that actually covers technical writing (and back then I enjoyed it). if you plan to write your own, I think it would benefit from knowing what's in there (: 22:37:22 H4ns: fair enough. Who uses RCS? 22:37:35 prxq: binghe 22:37:38 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:43 intresting 22:38:10 H4ns: ah. it actually works much better than the manpage implies. 22:38:18 Sadly sounds like a lot of what she's peddling is bunk. But I'll see if I can find a copy in the library. Anyway, thanks for the pointer--it's the first book I've seen specifically aimed at computer people. 22:38:35 gigamonkey: the recommendations at the end of that highest-rated review sound interesting, haven't seen these 22:38:38 pkhuong: :) git is surprisingly good. 22:39:17 so, I tried trees but I think I do not understand the idea: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125869 22:39:19 gigamonkey: it's a four-star overall rating and the highest-rated review reads like a rant aimed at hackernews. hm, hm. 22:39:33 I thought it would be like hashmap but tree based 22:39:33 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.64.105] has joined #lisp 22:39:45 git is amazing. If you consider that it was created in a hurry, it becomes even more amazing. 22:39:49 puchacz: I guess these trees can have multiple identical keys 22:40:07 puchacz: it's not. 22:40:21 antifuchs: Until I write mine, I'd recommend Style: Lessons in Clarity and Grace as the best guide to better writing available. 22:40:30 English Grammar books are almost always outdated immediately 22:40:37 puchacz: you can mutate the list instead. 22:40:39 unless they describe the process of language 22:40:46 gigamonkey: ok - I was looking for technical writing books specifically at the time 22:40:52 pkhuong: am I allowed to insert only once? 22:41:08 and no assertion is made to signal error if I try to insert many times? 22:41:08 puchacz: no, why? 22:41:42 puchacz: there are three items in that sorted set: (1 "a1") (2 "a2") and (2 "a8"). 22:41:42 pkhuong: you said instead of what I did in the paste I could mutate the list 22:41:47 H4ns: what should I do with public_html? It feels a bit strange to add .git into that dir and hope for the best 22:41:52 puchacz: that's what you said you wanted to do. 22:42:10 pkhuong: can I have a map that is tree based then? 22:42:18 (without writing a wrapper to trees library) 22:42:18 it is a map. 22:42:19 prxq: what do you mean by "hope for the best", really? 22:42:20 gigamonkey: write an English style book that tells you how good style comes about, and doesn't just give "rules" for good style. 22:42:29 pkhuong: with unique keys 22:42:33 H4ns: that things do not break 22:42:44 that the vcs do not confuse each other 22:42:51 prxq: what kind of breakage? 22:43:12 puchacz: FSet might be closer to what you want. 22:43:21 pkhuong: thx, trying 22:43:24 Nisstyre: indeed. The one I just mentioned is very much along those lines. 22:43:26 prxq: my thought was: everyone can use whatever vcs they want to find out what has changed since they last looked. 22:43:34 H4ns: ok 22:43:41 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 22:43:55 gigamonkey: you might want to go into a brief explanation of Prescription vs. Description. Just a suggestion. 22:44:09 prxq: it is not the same thing as "the repo is the final source", but it seems that for tracking changes, this is not a problem. the "checkout" is the final source. 22:44:10 -!- bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:11 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:24 gigamonkey: Are you the author of PCL? 22:46:04 is this project up-to-date http://common-lisp.net/project/lambda-gtk/ ? 22:46:10 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:04 Nisstyre: yes. 22:48:11 gigamonkey: what made you want to write an English style book? 22:48:22 -!- easyE [lWpQ9VBVLY@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:49:15 -!- HG` [~HG@dsbg-5d82a864.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:49:32 Nisstyre: Not sure. But I think there may be enough stuff particular to geeks, both how you could present the material and specific writing problems that geeks tend to have, to make an interesting book. 22:50:02 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.18.107] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:05 Bike_ [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 22:50:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:50:31 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 22:52:10 -!- hugodunc` [~user@76.65.142.49] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:30 -!- hiredman [~hiredman@ip67-152-53-125.z53-152-67.customer.algx.net] has left #lisp 22:52:52 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:53:15 -!- fmeyer_ [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:54:19 H4ns: seems to work 22:54:59 prxq: cool. thanks for caring. i'll be gone for today 22:55:03 -!- H4ns [5b3d4c76@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.76.118] has quit [Quit: suspend] 22:55:40 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:56:29 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:59 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:57:09 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 22:58:09 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: goodbye blue sky, goodbye] 22:58:47 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:02:39 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:04:34 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@repo.parabolagnulinux.org] has joined #lisp 23:06:42 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:07:01 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:07:28 waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has joined #lisp 23:07:34 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 23:07:44 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:08 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:00 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:10:02 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:11:14 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0102da.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:12:36 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-181-128.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:13:05 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:14:01 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-65-14.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:20 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:18:15 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@95-88-46-7-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:21:47 superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-43.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:19 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 23:25:39 -!- Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-10-10.iburst.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:25:52 Harag [~phil@iburst-41-213-10-10.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:26:06 *Xach* feels the Lisp excitement crackling like electricity in the air! 23:27:45 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 23:31:32 oops, sorry. That's me. 23:31:46 ... and a van de graff generator? 23:32:19 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-zxcruqxldfjwomgm] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:33:58 *Xach* was pretty disappointed that the generator at the boston museum of science was broken on saturday :( 23:34:00 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.33] has joined #lisp 23:34:56 ... I haven't been to the museum of science in ages. 23:35:53 it's been more than 25 years for me. some exhibits ("mathematica" in particular) were completely unchanged. 23:36:14 -!- wormwood1 [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:36:27 *Xach* didn't see any exhibits regarding lisp, unfortunately 23:37:18 I saw a Lisp machine in the computer museum when it was in Boston. 23:37:37 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 23:38:01 I want to go to the museum in Mountain View but I haven't had time the last couple times I've been there. 23:38:33 I've heard good stuff about it and its Lisp content. 23:38:48 -!- snearch [~snearch@e178190081.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 23:40:10 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:40:27 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 23:40:33 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:44 *Xach* really hopes his SBCL patch is considered! 23:41:13 waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has joined #lisp 23:45:21 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all] 23:46:52 -!- urandom__ [~user@ip-88-152-216-175.unitymediagroup.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:49:28 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:55:36 -!- ThomasH [468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 23:57:02 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:58:09 phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:09 -!- phax [~phax@cpc14-haye17-2-0-cust110.haye.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:58:09 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 23:58:17 Xach: what did you patch? 23:58:21 centipedefarmer [~centipede@65-125-135-157.dia.static.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:59:02 -!- joseph_ [~duomo@120-dcmp11.goeaston.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:59:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]