00:01:00 Heh. Like in hunchentoot? 00:01:11 yes. 00:01:17 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.246.218.131] has joined #lisp 00:01:18 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:18 exactly like in hunchentoot. 00:01:45 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:47 On the one hand, one thread per socket is obnoxious. On the other hand, I/O multiplexing in Lisp is a nightmare. 00:01:51 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:52 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 00:02:02 I mean, just ask minion! 00:02:12 how do you mean? I find iolib makes it extremely easy. 00:02:28 far, far easier than it ever was in C, certainly. 00:02:41 Hah! You iolib-using kids have no idea what we had to deal with back in the day. 00:02:46 *gigamonkey* is contemplating switching Toot to iolib. 00:03:17 gigamonkey: With a thread-pool, so no single thread gets badly overloaded by requests? 00:03:18 nyef: all sorts of things are a nightmare if you refuse to use any external libs :P 00:03:37 (and yes, iolib wasn't always there, but that's not my problem ^^) 00:03:42 Sure, but when there AREN'T any external libs? 00:03:42 *akovalenko* is eagerly waiting for winapi-aware-iolib becoming mainstream.. 00:03:46 nyef: I don't know enough about iolib to say, really. 00:04:18 iolib's docs are lacking as Ralith mentioned 00:04:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 00:04:26 gigamonkey: the general paradigm for multiplexed servers is to have several threads, each one handling many connections. 00:04:35 I think usually you just make one thread per core 00:04:35 Ralith: yes. 00:04:51 what bearing does iolib have on that? 00:05:08 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 00:05:09 Well, you can't have one thread handling multiple connections if, say, read blocks. 00:05:39 unless I misunderstand your usecase, whether or not read blocks isn't relevant 00:05:51 because you only call read after the data is available 00:06:10 at which point the OS API guarantees a nonblocking read, even if the FD is in blocking mode. 00:06:16 Ralith: CL:READ blocks? 00:06:19 Sorry, I meant with something like usocket where the only way to find out if data was available is to call a blocking read. 00:06:29 Unless I'm misunderstanding usocket. 00:06:30 nyef: the read system call. 00:06:39 gigamonkey: that's what the multiplexer does for you. 00:06:41 Okay, so issue a zero-byte blocking read? 00:07:00 Ralith: right. where "the multiplexer" is iolib, right? 00:07:02 gigamonkey: the way a multiplexer works is that it signals when data is available for reading (or space is available for writing) 00:07:05 yes 00:07:09 iomux:event-base specifically 00:07:16 (iolib does lots of things other than multiplex) 00:07:30 So that's what bearing iolib has on the ability to structure a server around a model that requires a multiplexer. 00:07:42 "it enables it?" 00:07:46 Yes. 00:07:52 kay ^^ 00:08:20 was confused because I assumed it was a given that you wouldn't be doing any blocking I/O 00:08:56 Well, I don't know how to avoid it without using something like iolib. 00:09:05 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-155-26.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:10 afaik you can't 00:09:20 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:09:22 unless you consider grinding up the CPU on polling to be acceptable. 00:09:25 Right. So it's a weird assumption to make that I wouldn't. 00:09:53 why not use select 00:09:59 there is a limit on file descriptor 00:10:11 xristos: iolib is CL's select, basically. 00:10:23 -!- zmv [~zmv@c9533879.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:10:27 iolib is many things 00:10:34 that among them. 00:10:40 you can use select in a much simpler way 00:10:41 ok, let's not go into theology 00:10:43 gigamonkey: I guess I meant to say that I assumed you were aware that iolib provided multiplexing of that sort 00:10:59 Indeed. That's about all I know about iolib. 00:11:03 Not only does select() have a file descriptor limit, its interface contains some obnoxiously linear-time aspects in dealing with said file descriptors. 00:11:09 ^ 00:11:16 fortunately, iolib also wraps epoll! 00:11:17 But I don't really know what the API to it is. 00:11:39 gigamonkey: it's pretty straightforward; the async server example covers it well. 00:11:47 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-10-172.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:11:56 Yeah, I just haven't looked at all. But it's on my list for Toot. 00:12:01 great to hear! 00:12:37 xristos: what simpler way did you have in mind? 00:13:28 Ralith: sb-impl::add-fd-handler 00:13:46 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 00:13:52 Oh, god, NO! Don't go that route if you can possibly avoid it! 00:13:57 xristos: that's not simpler; in fact, it looks exactly the same. 00:14:01 pnathan1 [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 00:14:04 except for apparently being terrible judging by nyef. 00:14:27 xristos: not to mention that it's not portable, which is half the point of using iolib... 00:14:36 well obviously 00:14:41 Araneida went that route. SLIME/SWANK went that route. minion and company went that route. 00:14:57 those all seem like fairly successful projects 00:15:10 minion and company still have the scars. 00:15:15 oh? 00:15:27 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:15:49 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:16:36 Yeah. Do you remember a few years ago when paste.lisp.org would stop responding and the clnet system load would max out? 00:16:45 And it happened on a regular basis? 00:17:30 -!- xristos [~x@research.suspicious.org] has left #lisp 00:17:38 xristos [~x@research.suspicious.org] has joined #lisp 00:17:41 That was caused by a file-descriptor leak and the use of add-fd-handler. 00:18:07 One of the workarounds was to set resource limits on the SBCL process and add a script to automatically restart it if it died. 00:18:28 No longer necessary, really, but it's still there. 00:18:40 -!- pnathan1 [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:18:40 so the leak got fixed? 00:19:13 nyef: how was add-fd-handler responsible for that? 00:19:28 xristos: The leak got fixed at least twice. 00:19:49 Ralith: The failure mode was all add-fd-handler. 00:20:13 Managing multiple sets of fd-handlers is tricky as well. 00:20:34 On the whole, it's a road that is best not travelled. 00:21:25 I don't really follow, but okay 00:23:34 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 00:24:56 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:30 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:28:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:00 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:35:19 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 00:37:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:37:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has joined #lisp 00:39:13 -!- beefcube [~jpf@cpe-76-184-147-243.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:41:24 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:42:47 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:01 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 00:44:11 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:44:31 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 00:47:47 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:18 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:01 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:25 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:51:28 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:53:20 (defstruct thing (other nil :type (or null thing))) ;; should it compile? 00:53:47 *akovalenko* found a thing like this in slime (swank.lisp's LCONS) 00:57:59 -!- Guthur` [~user@host86-163-183-88.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:50 pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-243-185-183.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.47.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:47 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-47.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:07:32 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-202-204.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:08:35 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:08:54 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-54.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:09:30 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:10:16 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-178-32.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:16 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-178-32.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:10:16 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:15:22 -!- itR [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Quit: .] 01:20:16 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:32 -!- earlgray [~Adium@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:27:07 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:27:13 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-178-32.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:13 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-178-32.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:27:13 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:27:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:31:04 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:33:10 udzinari` [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:33:44 sty_ [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399486.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:36:25 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:36:31 -!- sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925081123.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:37:18 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-155-26.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:38:17 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:38:39 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:46:40 -!- foocraft [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:47:02 foocraft [foocraft@ibawizard.net] has joined #lisp 01:50:36 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-229-76.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:48 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 01:59:34 yates [~yates@cpe-66-25-60-51.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:00:22 is there a clisp REPL / major mode for emacs? 02:00:39 slime 02:01:22 i thought slime only worked with sbcl? 02:01:38 no 02:01:43 no slime is inter lisp 02:02:08 ah - ok, i'll read up 02:05:38 the zpng library, seems to spit out an array bounds error for every error. 02:07:58 alek_b [~alek_b@99-10-120-63.lightspeed.sndgca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:00 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.126] has quit [] 02:15:16 klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-210-97.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 02:21:53 noidea [~noidea`@cpe-098-026-103-001.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:22:13 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:23:48 nefo [~nefo@58.37.47.197] has joined #lisp 02:23:48 -!- nefo [~nefo@58.37.47.197] has quit [Changing host] 02:23:48 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 02:24:29 hah 02:24:42 my mandlebrot generator is all kinds of innefficient. 02:24:48 not my day 02:32:30 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483DBCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:06 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:34:41 is there a quicklisp "repository" for clisp stuff? 02:35:13 yates: not something separate. 02:36:33 Xach: but can i use quicklisp to install and main clisp and packages for it? 02:36:48 quicklisp does not install a lisp implementation 02:36:52 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:01 just packages? 02:37:02 it installs libraries, and many of the libraries available work in clisp. 02:38:12 Xach: i see. thanks for the clarification 02:38:40 spookyrx [~spookyrx@c-98-229-168-97.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:45 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has joined #lisp 02:39:17 BYO lisp 02:39:37 right 02:42:40 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:46:23 -!- spookyrx [~spookyrx@c-98-229-168-97.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:49:17 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [] 02:49:41 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-54.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:55:09 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.246.218.131] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 03:00:54 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:31 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:13:04 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has joined #lisp 03:13:04 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has quit [Changing host] 03:13:04 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:16:34 about 3 to 4 orders of magnatude slower than expected.. 03:17:21 http://pastebin.com/TT7zLRiu 03:17:33 wups. 03:17:38 nix that 03:19:47 -!- dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:19:54 dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 03:20:56 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:07 Xach: i had a file slime-helper.el in my old quicklisp folder - is that from quicklisp or emacs/slime? 03:24:06 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:26:32 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-225-61.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:10 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-225-61.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:31:27 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-225-61.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:06 tanner1 [~tanner@S0106f4ec38fdc4d8.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:52 yates: http://lmgtfy.com/?q=slime-helper.el 03:32:58 Hi I'm having a problem with lambdas. Is it possible to pass a function into a lambda? 03:33:22 tanner1: Yes, a function can be an argument to a lambda expression. 03:33:26 (defun LeastF (F L) 03:33:28 (mapcar #'(lambda (X) (cons (F X) X)) L)) 03:33:46 this is what I'm trying to do, with F being the function and L the list 03:34:16 You need funcall. (funcall F X) instead of (F X), since F is a variable there. 03:34:36 ahhhh that makes sense! thank you! 03:35:27 still new to this 03:36:17 austinh: yes, that helped. can you change the theme on that google though? 03:36:19 :) 03:40:03 deech [~user@71-11-140-18.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 03:40:20 -!- deech [~user@71-11-140-18.dhcp.stls.mo.charter.com] has left #lisp 03:43:25 ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 03:46:13 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:48:07 yay 03:48:13 55 seconds to 1.5 03:48:24 should be doable in like 0.01 03:48:29 or less 03:50:58 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:54:30 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:59:50 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:24 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449252.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:00:30 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:00:35 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.20] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:00 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.93] has joined #lisp 04:04:00 -!- el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8C89E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:06:40 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:10:15 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:48 el-maxo [~max@p5DE8F24B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:11 -!- X-Scale` [email@89.180.175.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:16:48 if I have a list of this format ((1 (13)) (1 (4 9 8 2)) (2 (2 3 4))), what would be the best way to find and return the sublist that is preceded by the lowest number 04:17:12 in this case return (13) simply because it comes first 04:17:42 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:18:19 (reduce (lambda (x y) (if (< (first x) (first y)) x y)) list) 04:19:20 hm. thank you. 04:19:36 so when you call a lambda with two parameters, it takes the first and second elements? 04:19:42 almost like using apply? 04:19:45 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:20:07 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:35 should be <= to return (1 (13)) 04:21:01 I'm looking for just (13) 04:21:16 tanner1: extract it. 04:21:20 the first number comes from another part of the function i've written 04:21:22 surely you know how to get (13) from that 04:21:30 yep :) 04:22:15 or: just keep a running minimum as you generate the scores. 04:22:16 itR [~itR@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 04:24:01 (mapcar #'(lambda (X) (cons (funcall F X) (cons X nil))) L))))) 04:24:11 is how I am generating the scores 04:24:22 F is the.. fitness function I suppose you could call it 04:24:42 #'(lambda (x) (list (funcall f x) x)) 04:24:58 you don't need #' by the way tanner 04:25:55 oh really? never tried without it, my professor always uses them 04:26:28 not needed for lambda 04:26:51 itR: until SBCL yaps at you for it 04:27:17 just tried without, I use GNU CLisp, it doesn't mind 04:27:36 CL-USER> (mapcar (lambda (x) x) '(1 2 3)) (1 2 3) 04:27:49 used SBCL, didn't yap 04:28:13 Not in the mapcar case necessarily. When you said "not needed for lambda", I interpreted it as "not needed for any lambdas" 04:28:37 what kind of lambda would you need to use it for? 04:28:43 I'd like to see an example where it's needed 04:28:50 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:30:50 I forgot where SBCL warns. It doesn't not work. 04:30:52 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326621.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:31 Quadrescence: I can't think of any case. 04:31:37 considering what lambda expands to I doubt it warns about the lack of #' anywhere 04:31:58 Maybe I'm thinking about warnings where it wants # 04:32:01 ' removed 04:32:21 In any case, one of those can warn. I just don't remember where. 04:32:33 There are a few standard macros that depend on ((lambda ...) ...) being OK. 04:32:55 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082AA0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:54 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:24 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:50 turns out using complex type to do mandlebrot is only worth it to show off the "expressive" way to do it 04:36:25 derekv: why? 04:37:46 my first solution was much slower. 04:37:59 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 04:38:09 derekv: that only tells something about your solution. 04:38:11 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:38:29 I have doubts that complex numbers are slow (in SBCL), but I could be wrong. 04:38:37 =] true 04:39:06 Quadrescence: the norm operation isn't natively supported by CL complexes. 04:39:13 :( 04:39:41 looks like I will have to put in time to do some patchwork for that 04:39:42 So you have to either unpack and do it by hand, or have precision-optimised code. 04:40:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A28E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:40:30 -!- udzinari` [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:40:39 (or write a tiny 2-norm^2 VOP) 04:41:00 pkhuong: you should write a tutorial for adding a 2norm^2 vop 04:41:40 I should rebase my SSE tree. 04:42:07 pkhuong: do you need incentive to write such a thing? 04:42:59 no. I just have to find time. 04:43:06 I can't even spell. 04:43:33 How can I write code if I can't even spell the word for what I'm trying to do? 04:43:35 I give up. 04:44:01 derekv: are your mandelbrots online? 04:44:48 putting code up in a second 04:45:01 bhaskara [~user@c-98-248-43-91.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:21 akovalen` [~anton@95.72.170.200] has joined #lisp 04:47:19 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.168.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:47:39 i'm getting "restarts" in clisp: http://pastebin.com/teK5i0CG 04:47:50 i have no idea how to handle these and can't find documentation on it 04:49:27 in fact, just starting up gives me this: 04:49:28 http://pastebin.com/YG89dmEx 04:49:40 I have a linux/SBCL 64 compiled executable server process that runs for about a week or two - it has IO errors, which it logs, for quite some time via detachtty dribble; but at some point the process just seems to die silently, not from the IO errors. Is there some extra/verbose logging that can be turned on on SBCL to see why it went down? 04:50:15 yates are you using slime and emacs 04:50:30 itR: no, just from the cli (bash) 04:51:49 are you doing (:r15) 04:52:29 it should have been :r15 04:53:06 itR: that did it. thanks 04:53:12 :q to skip all 04:53:14 welcome 04:53:15 i thought i had already tried that.. 04:53:26 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:53:33 consider using slime though, it's awesome 04:53:48 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:05 itR: i am trying to get there. i am trying to first get slime-helper installed via quicklisp, and quicklisp isn't runnign right 04:55:45 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has joined #lisp 04:56:49 :Q 04:56:53 once i get that, i would invoke slime under emacs 04:56:54 -!- Guest80566 [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:57:03 yes 04:57:12 what problems are you having with quicklisp 04:57:13 that wasn't a question 04:57:19 itR: are you joking? 04:57:33 take a look at the pastebins i just posted 04:58:19 sorry I didn't scroll down, thought you just had trouble invoking restarts 04:58:42 yates: looks like somehow your ~/.clisprc.lisp is already setup to load quicklisp but you don't have it installed. 04:58:56 i had downloaded the seminal quicklisp.lisp, then loaded that, then ran (quicklisp-quickstart:install) 04:59:06 now when i invoke clisp i'm getting the above 04:59:25 Is there in fact a quicklisp directory in your home directory? 04:59:30 gigamonkey: yes 04:59:38 Hmmmm 04:59:49 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:00:04 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:08 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has joined #lisp 05:00:11 here is setup.lisp: http://pastebin.com/RkGjgszn 05:00:51 clisp is choking on setup.lisp, but i'm not sure where 05:02:40 -!- Bfig [~BFigares@r186-48-232-32.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:02:45 -!- tanner1 [~tanner@S0106f4ec38fdc4d8.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:03:01 Well, I know this isn't a great answer since it ought to work with CLISP but you could try SBCL. 05:03:09 (Assuming you're not on Windows) 05:03:49 quicklisp works just fine here on both clisp 2.47 and 2.49 05:04:24 Did you do anything funny to your ASDF setup? 05:04:44 gigamonkey: there are good reasons for my choice. i'm not going to cover them with you. but if it makes you feel better, i would prefer sbcl as well. 05:05:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-181-15.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:06 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-181-15.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:05:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 05:05:17 gigamonkey: i did what was instructed on the quicklisp installation 05:05:19 that's all 05:05:34 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:05:41 kennyd: hmm - are you on linux? 05:05:49 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:20 if i'm in debug mode of clisp (via the command line repl), how do i show the form currently causing the error? 05:08:02 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has joined #lisp 05:09:01 yates: Fair enough. It should work (and other folks are reporting it works for them) so it's probably just something hinky about your setup. 05:09:29 And what version of CLISP are you on? 05:09:33 yeah, i think i'll just start over. 05:09:35 2.49 05:09:47 under linux 05:10:54 gigamonkey: here is my .clisprc.lisp: http://pastebin.com/trYVNQsE 05:12:10 So what's the value of asdf:*central-registry*? 05:12:22 https://github.com/DerekV/mandelbrots 05:12:33 And do you have anything in ~/.config/common-lisp/ ? 05:12:50 oh. 05:12:56 i see what's happening... 05:12:58 doh. 05:13:06 i dorked the setup 05:13:23 gigamonkey: (#P"/home/yates/quicklisp/quicklisp/") 05:13:34 therein is the problemmo 05:14:28 i had temporaily (i thought) got something in that second quicklisp subdir - i guess clisp picked it up somehow 05:17:18 Well, there normally is actually a second quicklisp dir. 05:17:25 oh? 05:17:31 doh. 05:17:58 But if you touched the code that quicklisp added to your .clisprc.lisp file or anything in quicklisp/setup.lisp you're probably doing something wrong. 05:18:19 those are both gone now. 05:18:23 starting from scratch. 05:18:28 Good idea. 05:20:11 ok, works now. 05:20:15 thanks 05:20:50 Good. Welcome to the borg. 05:21:02 resistance is futile? 05:24:51 Yes. 05:28:15 pkhuong pasted "abs^2 in SBCL" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/125842 05:30:26 and now slime works too! 05:31:13 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449252.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:31:35 now how do you program in lisp? :) 05:32:37 i need the counsel of the collective 05:33:22 gigamonkey: fyi, it has to run under windows and linux, and since i've already convinced them to use cygwin, we're using clisp since that is included in cygwin 05:34:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:37:16 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 05:40:06 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-229-76.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:14 <_schulte_> any idea if there exists a function like with-output-to-string for streaming into a byte array? 05:42:19 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has joined #lisp 05:42:47 -!- ThomasH [468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 05:43:16 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:43:53 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has joined #lisp 05:44:01 yates: well, I wrote a bit about how to program in Lisp. You can read it here http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 05:45:58 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:46:46 -!- sty_ [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399486.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:48:04 -!- yates [~yates@cpe-66-25-60-51.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 05:48:45 cpc26 [~cpc26@66-87-2-192.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:18 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:52:27 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 05:53:03 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:53:27 pkhuong: woo! 05:53:36 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-148-218.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:53:59 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:54:33 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@66-87-2-192.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 05:55:39 Quadrescence: a generalized norm operator might be useful. 05:55:45 How do they generalize to tensors? 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gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:37:31 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 08:40:58 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:41:00 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has joined #lisp 08:41:41 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.229] has joined #lisp 08:41:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.6.229] has quit [Changing host] 08:41:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:43:04 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:46:49 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:53:44 [6502] [4e0ce17d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.225.125] has joined #lisp 08:55:59 <[6502]> Yo... about the famous problem of keyword parameters and optional parameters deadly mix... wouldn't be logical to consider a literal keyword parameter in the call site the start of keyword parameters? 08:57:15 <[6502]> I mean: (foo 1 2 :x 3) ... :x is the the start of keyword parameters, (foo 1 2 ':x 3) :x is in this case the value of an optional parameter 08:57:37 [6502]: not necessarily ... :x might just be some kind of flag for an optional parameter 08:58:15 something like (open-a-file "filename" :create) ... where the second parameter is optional and defaults to :read-only 08:58:18 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@87.247.32.215] has joined #lisp 08:58:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:58:21 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 08:58:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.32.215] has quit [Changing host] 08:58:21 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:58:28 <[6502]> just use ':create in that case 08:58:46 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:58:57 ':x evaluates to the same thing :x does, doesn't it? 08:59:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:59:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:59:32 <[6502]> yes... but the compiler could see at the call site what is the meaning; the ambiguity is present only for literal keywords 08:59:52 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 09:00:06 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 09:00:41 <[6502]> ':x and :x are the same only after evaluation, not when processed by the compiler 09:01:17 <[6502]> even if probably the best would have been using (foo 1 2 (:x 10)) syntax 09:01:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:01:48 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 09:01:48 <[6502]> using (funcall #':x 10) when you really want to call the symbol-function of a keyword symbol 09:01:51 [6502]: that sound a bit like some arbitrary syntax and hard-to-find bugs ... which isn't really nice 09:02:34 <[6502]> (foo 1 2 (;x 10) (:y 20)) seems natural to me (and by the way mirrors the lambda parameter list) 09:02:45 <[6502]> sorry ;x --> :x 09:02:46 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:02:49 would make a difference for macros, too ... if they try to parse some forms, eg. for optimizations 09:03:18 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 09:03:21 [6502]: and how would you give a distinction if you want to pass (:x 10) for an optional value? 09:03:41 <[6502]> meaning the function call of :x ? 09:03:57 <[6502]> (foo 1 2 (funcall #':x 10)) 09:03:58 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:04:11 ah, that's what you meant 09:04:18 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 09:04:25 <[6502]> I don't think using functions named after keywords is that common... 09:04:45 hi 09:04:52 <[6502]> yo 09:04:53 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:05:05 :) 09:05:06 [6502]: just write a reader macro to rewrite these function calls from your syntax to CL ... everything there 09:05:19 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.184] has joined #lisp 09:05:25 Hi all! 09:05:50 [6502]: you are trying to fix a problem that can easily be avoided by not mixing positional and keyword parameters. 09:06:20 I can't easily say whether your idea is good or bad ... I only know that it's different from the current CL standard, and that makes it hard (for me, personally) to find a value in this distinction 09:06:21 [6502]: and you're trying to solve it by changing the language in ways that are - at least to me - foreign. 09:07:02 H4ns: all good and well, but sadly even ANSI CL has such functions ... 09:07:04 [6502]: keyword parameters are not necessarily keywords, they can be symbols. Furthermore, they're not necessarily literal, they can be computed. 09:07:07 [6502]: there are no other places in cl where a distinction is made between :foo and ':foo 09:07:21 <[6502]> h4ns: I was just wondering how hard was to solve it from the beginning, or (to put it differently) what could be a solution designing lisp today without having the heritage of design mistakes of the past 09:07:36 [6502]: also, your proposal either breaks higher order functions or adds unexpected runtime tests. 09:08:06 <[6502]> the library itself mixes default and keyword parameters (and yes, it's a source of bugs) 09:08:07 -!- troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:08:38 well, all I can offer is an opinion ... I know quite a lot of perl, and the syntax-less-ness of CL is a very welcome difference 09:08:42 <[6502]> i'm making no proposal... i'm just wondering why not using (foo 1 2 (:x 10)) for example 09:09:03 flip214: hi! 09:09:04 Because function arguments are evaluated first. 09:09:21 So if :x is not a function, (:x 10) breaks. 09:09:25 Posterdati: poke 1,0 09:09:46 and if it is a function, only one value is used and passed as parameter. 09:10:13 [6502]: how would that work with higher order functions? what is (:x 10), a list literal? a function invocation? something else? 09:10:37 pjb-: he said 10mins ago that he would special-case that - disallowing (:x 10) as a function call, requiring (funcall #':x 10) for that 09:10:53 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.27.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:11:40 troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has joined #lisp 09:12:09 [6502]: but relating to your goal of starting this discussion: if you'd design a better lisp today, you might just disallow mixing &optional and &keyword. 09:12:15 &key even. 09:12:57 <[6502]> H4ns: hehehe... i was actually thinking to allowing only keyword parameters (excluding single-argument functions) 09:13:06 what about &optional and &rest and destructive-bind ? 09:13:33 flip214: nooo! my [6502] i/o port! 09:13:45 [6502]: having only keyword arguments has serious performance implications. 09:13:48 flip214: or should I say my 6510 i/o port 09:15:31 <[6502]> pjb-: destructuring? 09:17:58 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.250.245] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:04 <[6502]> i keep getting push call argument reversed and also gethash and a few others 09:19:42 <[6502]> but I know i'm not the only one 09:20:24 [6502]: yeah, programming is hard. also, common lisp is not so pretty after all. 09:21:15 cnl [~cnl@95.106.27.202] has joined #lisp 09:23:44 pjb-: hi 09:27:51 <[6502]> (equal (vector 1 2 3) (vector 1 2 3)) -> NIL 09:27:57 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:28:31 <[6502]> if I want to use an hash table where the key is a user-provided opaque object, what approach should I use? 09:29:34 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.108] has joined #lisp 09:29:35 <[6502]> do I have to implement my hash table from scratch with an user-provided comparison and hashing function? 09:30:24 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:32:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:33:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-72.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:35:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-47.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: this approximation has gone to sleep] 09:39:28 francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has joined #lisp 09:45:13 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:49:56 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 09:54:11 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.181.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:57:47 [6502]: yes and no - you can use 'equalp as test. there is no way to go beyond that, though. 09:57:57 [6502]: (in terms of the standard) 09:59:09 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:01:41 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:03:02 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d44a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:35 hi 10:05:14 <[6502]> H4ns: it's not hard to implement a generic hash table based on standard ones... (there will be a double hashing tho...) 10:05:32 -!- glix [~glix@183.29.224.36] has quit [Quit: Linkinus is updating...] 10:05:34 [6502]: [ ] i claimed that 10:05:52 <[6502]> H4ns: and btw i once again got gethash/sethash parameters swapped :-D 10:06:18 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has joined #lisp 10:06:18 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has quit [Changing host] 10:06:18 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:06:27 [6502]: in my ide, i see the argument list when i type "(gethash " 10:08:58 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:23 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:34 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.108] has joined #lisp 10:13:32 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has joined #lisp 10:15:16 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:15:48 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has joined #lisp 10:17:33 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:18:14 tiglog [~topeak@202.108.52.199] has joined #lisp 10:25:46 -!- ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 10:26:22 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 10:27:57 If I have ((LET ((x 10)) (LET ((l (list 1 2 x))) ...) the list 'l' contains a reference to 'x' or just its value? 10:28:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:28:41 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 10:28:54 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-157-51.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:29:43 Bahman: (let* ((x 10) (l (list 1 2 x))) (setf (nth 2 l) 5) (values l x)) 10:32:43 Thanks daimrod. Out of curiosity, is it possible for 'l' to hold a reference to 'x' so that when 'x' changes 'l' changes accordingly? 10:34:09 Bahman: I don't know. 10:35:57 pozic [~None@unaffiliated/pozic] has joined #lisp 10:37:11 -!- pozic [~None@unaffiliated/pozic] has quit [Client Quit] 10:38:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.47.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:45 is there a (standard or specific to sbcl/ccl) means of finding out how much memory an object uses? 10:42:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:00 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:44:01 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:44:03 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-112-20.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:44:14 Guest41679 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:44:54 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:46:36 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:47:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.47.157] has joined #lisp 10:50:45 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 10:51:40 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 10:51:59 morning 10:52:16 hi 10:52:22 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:45 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.117] has joined #lisp 10:54:49 earlgray [~Adium@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has joined #lisp 10:57:42 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:57:59 <[6502]> Bahman: No... in lisp there is no explicit "pointer" concept, if you want someone to set a variable you have to pass a setter... 10:58:25 <[6502]> Bahman: see http://paste.lisp.org/+2P3N 10:59:07 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:59:16 francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has joined #lisp 11:01:56 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-239-47.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 11:04:16 thanks [6502]. 11:08:09 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:09:08 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:09:27 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:20 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 11:14:54 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:55 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:26:27 H4ns: I almost read all the tutorial about ppcre, but still I've got doubts, could you help me? Thanks 11:29:23 (cl-ppcre:scan "^(?:(\\w+)\\s+(\\d+)\\s*,\\s*)+" "antani 1, sbidicuda 2, supercazzora 3") 11:29:39 0 23 #(10 20) #(19 21) 11:32:02 Posterdati: the comma in the end of your re is not optional. 11:32:12 no 11:32:27 problem solved. 11:32:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.47.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:32:35 ok 11:32:58 is , optional in my regexp? 11:33:13 Posterdati: read what i wrote. 11:33:37 -!- chenbing [~user@218.72.89.141] has left #lisp 11:34:09 H4ns: ok, I understand it expects something like arg1 1, arg2 2, ..., 11:34:24 H4ns: not arg1 1, arg2 2, ... 11:34:34 right. 11:35:11 ,? 11:35:52 (cl-ppcre:scan "(?:(\\w+)\\s+(\\d+)\\s*,?\\s*)+" "antani 1, sbidicuda 2, supercazzora 3, ostantinato 4") 11:36:02 0 52 #(39 51) #(50 52) 11:36:14 but I'd like to capture every args :( 11:36:47 why don't you first split your string at ",", then process the elements? 11:36:54 H4ns: ok 11:37:14 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:35 H4ns: with :start ? 11:37:58 ok, I'm going to read split features, wait!! 11:38:01 :) 11:39:28 -!- [6502] [4e0ce17d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.225.125] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:43:57 Posterdati: that looks like a task for split-sequence 11:44:14 prxq: what is split-sequence? 11:44:47 Posterdati: a lisp lib for splitting and partitioning sequences based on delimiters. It's quicklispable, I think 11:45:00 Posterdati: use (cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings) ... with (scan) you only get start and and of one match, ie. the $1 and $2 11:45:22 (cl-ppcre:split ":|,|\\s+" "malliti : antani 1, sbidicuda 2") 11:45:26 cl-ppcre has split 11:45:32 ("malliti" "" "" "antani" "1" "" "sbidicuda" "2") 11:46:21 oh, and BTW: I'd prepend a "," at the input string and _require_ the "," in the RE ... else "a 1 b 2, c 3 d 4" might be parsed "wrong" (for some values of wrong) 11:47:51 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:49:12 H4ns: I followed your suggestions: I split the string at : then split again the rest with , 11:49:20 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:52:03 H4ns: thanks 12:01:37 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:03:18 xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:59 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 12:12:23 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:15:30 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-253-42.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:15:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:16:02 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:16:12 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 12:20:30 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:20:36 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:20:46 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d44a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:24:33 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-206-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 12:25:12 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:25:48 urandom__ [~user@p548A598E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:47 -!- xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:35 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 12:33:20 H4ns: so generally speaking, regexp should be simple as possible, am I right? 12:33:31 Is it necessary to put #' in front of a LAMBDA function? Or is it just a matter of style? 12:33:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:33:43 Posterdati: everything should be as simple as possible, but no simpler. 12:34:07 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 12:34:13 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:34:13 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.156.124] has joined #lisp 12:34:30 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-54.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:34:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:57 Bahman, lambda is a macro in common lisp which expands to (function (lambda ...)), so if you don't put the #' the expansion does it for you 12:35:16 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 12:35:35 npat: So it's just a matter of coding-style right? 12:35:36 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:35:51 Bahman: correct. 12:36:06 Thanks npat H4ns. 12:36:06 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 12:36:38 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-206-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:37:10 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 12:37:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:38:11 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has joined #lisp 12:38:51 xan_ [~xan@75.Red-95-122-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:40:18 I don't get the difference between a cons cell and a list...are there any docs that may help me? 12:40:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.93] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:38 -!- earlgray [~Adium@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:40:51 have you read practical common lisp? 12:41:17 nikodemus: I'm reading it...chapter 12 :-) 12:41:33 have you read from the start? 12:41:37 Yes. 12:43:16 ok. a list is either the empty list (also known as nil), or a CONS whose CAR is the first element of the list, and whose CDR is the rest of the list 12:43:45 which is why FIRST means the same as CAR, and REST means the same as CDR 12:44:05 so (cons 1 (cons 2 (cons 3 nil))) == (list 1 2 3) 12:45:03 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:42 (consp x) => T implies that (listp x) is also true, but not vice versa, since (listp nil) => T and (consp nil) => NIL -- basically, (listp x) == (or (consp x) (null x)) 12:45:46 does that help? 12:46:28 nikodemus: So the only difference between a cons cell and a list is that list can be nil while cons cell cannot? 12:46:59 Bahman: a list consists of cons cells. there is no "difference" between them. 12:47:21 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 12:47:27 Bahman: it is like a string that consists of characters. a list consists of cons cells. 12:48:41 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:51 H4ns: So we can say: cons is the building block of lists but their types are different? 12:49:05 Bahman: not but, but yes. 12:49:19 And a cons is always a non-nil list? 12:49:29 Bahman: hu? 12:49:53 Bahman, yes, a cons is always a non-nil list 12:49:54 Bahman: as types, yes -- CONS is a subtype of list. a cons cell is a node in a singly linked list. struct list { void *elt; struct list* next; } in C-land, exept list->elt == CAR == FIRST, and list->next == CDR == FIRST 12:50:16 npat: not at all 12:50:26 H4ns, why not? 12:50:38 sometimes you see cons-cells being used as just "a pair" without being part of a list 12:50:52 npat: because (cons t t) is not a list. 12:51:22 H4ns: well... LISTP thinks it is. it's not a _proper_ list, though 12:51:32 Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-51-151-39.static.adinet.com.uy] has joined #lisp 12:51:37 a proper list == a null terminated chain of conses 12:51:39 nikodemus: It's a dotted list 12:51:42 which is still a list 12:51:54 H4ns, nikodemus exactly 12:51:56 Iceland_jack: that was my point exactly 12:52:24 oh, that was supposed to go to npat :) sorry 12:52:33 Aside from deep technical details -which are out of my league for now-, I think I got the difference. Thanks nikodemus, H4ns. 12:53:20 -!- Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-51-151-39.static.adinet.com.uy] has quit [Client Quit] 12:56:39 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B495.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:55 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 12:59:24 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:59:28 -!- Guest41679 [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:00:01 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:01:18 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 13:03:49 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:10:59 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:11:02 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:18:22 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Read error: 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[~cnl@95.106.27.202] has joined #lisp 13:48:30 kpreid: what application eats those .keylayout files? 13:48:31 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:49:21 -!- 13WAATSDK is now known as tomaw 13:50:02 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 13:50:19 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.81.93] has joined #lisp 13:51:21 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 13:51:29 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-112-20.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: G'bye] 13:52:48 those november rains are HEAVY, man 13:53:31 -!- mrgacon [~mrgacon@115.74.109.138] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:54:20 Is it possible to save what I've entered in Slime REPL into a file? 13:56:19 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-153-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 13:56:19 Bahman: look at ~/slime-history.eld after quitting slime _or_ doing M-x slime-repl-save-history 13:56:25 Bahman: why might you want to do that? 13:56:45 Thanks akovalenko! 13:57:11 I can think of reasons, but one reason to avoid is "I wrote my project defuns in the repl and need to save them" 13:57:39 Xach: Been doing lots of experiments and now close Emacs. Don't want to re-write everything again. 13:57:51 ...and now I have to close Emacs... 13:58:03 Closing emacs is also a dire activity! 13:58:05 btw, it's not a shell-like one-command-per-line file, but a lisp-reader-compatbile list of strings.. 13:58:12 *Xach* endeavors never to do it 13:58:54 what if you need to upgrade slime? 13:59:59 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 14:00:00 (the only other plausible reason is, of course, a reboot. which I'm sure Xach endeavors never to do either) 14:02:39 akovalenko: So how to re-run my expressions? Using history up and down in Slime? Is it possible to batch execute them? 14:03:53 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: "Object-oriented design" is an oxymoron] 14:06:22 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:10 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 14:09:23 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-206-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:09:47 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:21 chenbing [~user@125.119.85.156] has joined #lisp 14:10:41 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:10:48 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:10:48 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:10 Bahman: you may want to read about "slime-scratch" in the slime info documentation, it sounds like what you need 14:11:10 (cdr '( (A B) (C D))) is ((C D)) which I assume is '(C D) 14:11:39 chenbing: nope, it is '((C D)) 14:12:00 chenbing: (cdr '("ab-was-here" "cd-was-here")) = ? 14:12:37 akovalenko: "cd-was -here" ,I think 14:12:48 chenbing: now try and see :) 14:12:50 clirctut [~clirctut@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:07 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:13:25 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:13:56 oh...I remember (cons 'a (cons 'b nil)) 14:14:09 chenbing: (x y z w) == (x y z . (w)) == (x . (y . (z . (w . nil )))).. 14:14:18 because of cdr is always a list end with nil , 14:14:40 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:14:46 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 14:14:59 Thanks cmm. 14:17:03 Thanks cmm 14:17:04 -!- clirctut [~clirctut@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:17:52 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.156.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:19:01 Athas [~athas@ip1.c291.frb32.cust.comxnet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:19:38 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:20:01 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-206-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:20:31 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:32 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 14:21:43 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 14:22:37 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:55 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:26:52 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:34 clirctut [~clirctut@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:35 Xach: .keylayout files are used by Mac OS X and can be edited by SIL's Ukelele 14:28:36 duomo [~duomo@120-dcmp11.goeaston.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:22 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:30:23 Anyone have suggestions on how one might write (reduce f list) when F is an associative operator like #'*, in an efficient manner? My original thought was to partition LIST off into groups and apply F to each, and continue recursively. But I can't think of a nice way to write it. 14:31:02 Quadrescence: do you know doing it in groups will be faster than your additional grouping logic? 14:32:21 kpreid: I'm not sure what you mean. I guess let's assume F is #'* and LIST is a list of integers. Especially in the case that LIST is a list of small integers, it's best to do multiplications where the multiplicands are nearly the same size. 14:33:06 Well, if the product is a fixnum, it doesn't matter :) 14:33:18 But OK, that's a reasonable reason. 14:33:29 kpreid: mergereduce would theoretically do significantly fewer mults 14:33:30 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.156.124] has joined #lisp 14:33:40 felipe [~felipe@unaffiliated/felipe] has joined #lisp 14:34:25 or not, sorry, *goes to his coffee* 14:34:28 I would say, convert your list to an array and then do the usual sort of divide-and-conquer recursion on an array 14:34:42 s/array/vector/ 14:35:03 kpreid: Yeah, I was about to say that a list is probably fundamentally the wrong datatype. 14:36:19 Then again, I guess we could atomically traverse K elements (say, K=2) of the list, and pairwise multiply that way, "bottom-up" 14:36:20 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 14:37:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.117] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:38:21 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.117] has joined #lisp 14:38:39 Anyone knows how to set 'slime-scratch-file' ? Is it a variable? A command? 14:38:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:39:41 (setq slime-scratch-file (expand-file-name "~/Dropbox/slime-scratch.lisp")) ; or whatever you want the backing file to be 14:39:57 nikodemus: In .emacs, right? 14:40:05 -!- micro_ [~micro@www.bway.net] has left #lisp 14:40:53 yes 14:41:05 Thank you. 14:42:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:42:28 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:47 -!- clirctut [~clirctut@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:32 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:45:04 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:58 `micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:26 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:16 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:45 sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 14:53:03 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:30 fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-165-103.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 14:59:22 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-239-47.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:01:38 Xach: herep 15:02:38 -!- ehine1 [~ericyoda@rrcs-72-43-70-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:02:40 -!- npat [~npat@77.49.152.215.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:03:05 ehine1 [~ericyoda@rrcs-72-43-70-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:03:24 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 15:04:07 hi gigamonkey 15:04:35 gigamonkey: what's up? 15:06:51 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:07:34 Yo, is there any way to GC the software directory under a quicklisp intsall? 15:07:49 I don't really need a half-dozen old copies of SLIME around. 15:08:20 (map nil 'ql-dist:clean (ql-dist:enabled-dists)) is one way 15:08:31 that is meant to happen automatically but it doesn't yet. 15:08:36 Ah. 15:09:12 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:11:42 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@46.105.251.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:14:38 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:15:01 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.156.124] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:16:18 Quadrescence, i did put that mandelbrot code up https://github.com/DerekV/mandelbrots 15:16:42 maxigas [~user@dsl51B6523A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 15:17:02 what I want to do : work on this until I have a full blown fractal exploration tool with full compatability with fractint scripts. 15:17:37 sagixam [~user@dsl51B6523A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 15:17:40 what I should do : catch up on spring and hibernate so as to not look like a fool at work 15:17:50 what I need to do : something unrelated to computer, prefferably outdoors 15:18:24 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.9.143] has joined #lisp 15:18:41 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:18:53 derekv: I found spring to be surprisingly intuitive (for a Java library anyway), would worry more about hibernate 15:19:37 Also it should be easy enough to write a web front end for a fractal generator, put the image parameters into url, and from there, a twitter interface =] 15:20:35 -!- tiglog [~topeak@202.108.52.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:21:32 finnrobi, yes I'm getting what I'm seeing so far with spring, but I also think its more immediatly within their expectations for me to work with it this next week, not sure if/when i'll be touching the hibernate stuff. also drools. 15:21:39 derekv: cool, I'll take a look 15:22:12 npat [~npat@77.49.56.60.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has joined #lisp 15:23:22 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:37 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:24:47 Quadrescence, if you look at commits, the two commits that say "optimize inner loop" you can see the original and then the fast. it went from >55 seconds to 1.7. I don't know for certain that complex is to blame. Probably there were redundant calculations hidden in the original as well. And it consed a lot more. 15:25:02 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 15:29:38 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:29:58 Does anyone else's SLIME's argument list not display correctly when typing "(typep #C(" ? It's as if it thinks #C is the first argument, and the "(" is the beginning of the second argument. 15:36:06 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:15 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.Red-95-122-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:58 Quadrescence: yes, I see that - I guess it doesn't know how to read #C(...) and thinks that the ( terminates the token 15:39:18 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:39 derekv: you have a patch 15:41:05 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Quit: reboot] 15:43:02 -!- sagixam [~user@dsl51B6523A.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:05 -!- maxigas [~user@dsl51B6523A.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:44 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:44:52 jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:46:13 derekv: how about elephant 15:46:51 Quadrescence, thanks looks good I'll have try it later, on my way somewhere 15:46:55 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:47:48 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 15:47:49 chenbing, don't get to choose technologies on this one. 15:47:52 I don't. 15:47:58 bbl 15:48:29 (this one meaning project at work using spring/hibernate) 15:48:46 abrakadabra [~user@dsl51B6523A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 15:49:12 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:50:25 -!- abrakadabra [~user@dsl51B6523A.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:52:05 abrakadabra [~user@dsl51B6523A.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 15:52:39 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 15:53:56 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 15:54:02 -!- nikodemus 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[Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:53:02 homie: sorry? 16:58:02 H4ns: still tweaking to deal with the changes in 1.2 of hunchentoot. in the previous version, i redefined hunchentoot:*default-handler* with setf for default handling of unknown resources. however, now it doesn't seem to work 17:01:28 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:02:34 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-225-61.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 17:04:50 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 17:07:13 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.158] has joined #lisp 17:09:12 ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:28 nilsou [~root@ras75-6-82-247-109-24.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:17:39 hello, i'm trying to learn lisp, and having a bit of a trouble for debugging, any chance someone could help me? 17:21:57 -!- nilsou [~root@ras75-6-82-247-109-24.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:22:38 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-47.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:51 dsp_: you need to define yourself an acceptor class and implement an acceptor-dispatch-request method for it. the class can be defined like this: (defclass my-acceptor (hunchentoot;easy-acceptor) ()) 17:22:51 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:22:55 s/;/: 17:23:07 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:31 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:13 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:10 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.4.115] has joined #lisp 17:27:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:27:55 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:28:39 H4ns: ah, thanks. i'll have a look into CLOS basics. 17:30:54 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:32:44 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:33:39 -!- fantazo_ [~fantazo@178-191-165-103.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:43 dsp_: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125844 17:34:10 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-98-217-184-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:35:01 :q 17:35:02 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32D4F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:37:32 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 17:38:37 H4ns: aha, i think I had most of that, but was defmethod'ing on acceptor-dispatch-request rather than hunchentoot:acceptor-dispatch-request. thanks for the pointer 17:38:45 probably would have figured it out eventually after much head scratching 17:42:41 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:49:15 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:49:39 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:49:40 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:53:34 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:55:01 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:55:40 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:20 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:32 mensch [~mensch@c-98-217-184-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:58:18 H4ns: actually, i apologise for wasting your time. i have figured out how error handling works now -- not sure if it changed from 1.1 series or not, but i just needed to modify (hunchentoot:acceptor-error-template-directory *acceptor*) i believe to point to somewhere with custom files 17:58:39 all i really wanted to do was to modify the not-found page. overcomplicated it for myself as usual 17:58:46 -!- Athas [~athas@ip1.c291.frb32.cust.comxnet.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:59:12 dsp_: that is all new. look at the template, too. 17:59:43 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 17:59:58 yes, interesting. i'm using cl-emb for my own templating, but i'll have a look at what hunchentoot does 18:00:59 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:01:00 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.108] has joined #lisp 18:01:06 dsp_: i meant the error template - it is meant to be super-simple, just for the error pages. 18:01:13 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 18:01:40 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Client Quit] 18:01:53 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 18:02:35 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:02:56 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 18:04:37 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has left #lisp 18:04:59 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:05:25 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 18:05:39 H4ns: yepyep, just wondering what it accepts. as an example, i see lisp-implementation-type, which is a function, and hunchentoot-version, which i am not sure is, written the same way 18:07:25 good point, that'd need to be in the documentation. currently, there is script-name, lisp-implementation-type, lisp-implementation-version and hunchentoot-version. 18:07:38 ahh, substitute-request-context-variables 18:07:50 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:08:09 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 18:08:49 but yes, looks simple enough. cheers for the insight 18:09:00 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has left #lisp 18:10:49 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:55 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:12:36 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:13:35 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:14:13 snearch [~snearch@e178123067.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:00 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.181.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:24:20 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:25:22 sacho__ [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:27:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:08 -!- sacho__ [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:15 sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 18:27:15 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Client Quit] 18:28:24 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 18:28:40 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:29:20 -!- BrianRice [~water@174.31.148.97] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:29:30 BrianRice [~water@174-31-148-97.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:57 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:37:14 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:37:27 http://pastebin.com/DudLZ87u <- is there a more optimal way of doing this? What I have works, just curious if there is a better way 18:38:00 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 18:39:15 TannerB: is that meant to be common lisp? 18:39:15 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:39:35 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:40:08 H4ns: yeah 18:40:38 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Client Quit] 18:41:25 TannerB: sortBy? camelCase? cond instead of a simple or? lists to represent structured data? 18:42:59 it's for an assignment. camelcase is how my professor does it. sortby is an insertion sort I wrote for a previous question and we haven't done anything else but lists 18:43:06 it's a course is functional programming 18:43:10 in* 18:44:16 ok. then there is not much left. except maybe the cond which i'd write as an or 18:44:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.54.108] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 18:45:21 just (if (or blah blah) nil t) 18:46:29 in common lisp, there is no need to use t. any non-nil value is true. 18:46:45 (there is a use for t, but in this case, i'd not use it) 18:47:34 (if (or blah blah) nil t) => (or blah blah) 18:47:46 (not (or ...)) 18:51:24 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33B6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:38 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:53:14 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 18:55:02 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 18:55:28 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:02 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.90.181] has joined #lisp 18:57:04 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:57:21 Xach: It would be nice if there was a ql:add-local-project so we could add a system manually instead of running ql:register-local-projects. (I'd like to have this in quickproject just like it adds the newly created project to asdf:*central-registry*) 18:58:27 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:01:09 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.90.181] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:10 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.170.200] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:02:36 daimrod: got patch? 19:04:04 sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:04:21 pkhuong: nop, but I can try to do it. 19:04:40 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 19:04:59 sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:05:46 I don't know much about quicklisp internal but that doesn't sound too complicated. 19:06:55 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.90.181] has joined #lisp 19:11:35 oconnore [~Eric@138.110.174.172] has joined #lisp 19:15:11 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 19:16:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:20:23 daimrod: I don't really understand, sorry. What argument would you pass to add-local-project? 19:24:28 dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-201.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 19:25:17 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-201.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:26:03 -!- dmiles_afk is now known as dmiles 19:26:04 -!- dmiles is now known as dmiles_afk 19:31:50 -!- benny [~benny@i577A73D2.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:35:06 Xach: I thought I could pass the pathname of the .asd to fill system-index.txt 19:35:37 daimrod: What is the pathname? 19:36:38 Xach: ~/src/lisp/name/name.asd most of the time. 19:37:09 daimrod: ql:register-local-projects won't pick that up, so your "instead of" bit confuses me. 19:37:24 daimrod: you want to use ~/src/lisp/ instead of ~/quicklisp/local-projects/? 19:37:33 Does Hunchentoot have any facility for dropping privileges after binding low ports? 19:37:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:37:39 gigamonkey: no 19:37:59 Is there a trivial-setuid out there in the world somewhere? 19:38:11 gigamonkey: lukego wrote something like that for cmucl 19:38:15 not trivial nor portable 19:38:21 gigamonkey: you were looking for me earlier? 19:38:30 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 19:38:30 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: error:1408F10B:SSL routines:SSL3_GET_RECORD:wrong version number] 19:38:41 Xach: I think I found you. 19:38:45 isn't there something like a fine-grained privilege in modern linuxen that one can assign to processes requiring low port binding? 19:38:53 I was asking about gc'ing dist/software/ 19:39:04 oh, right. i gc'd my memory of that. 19:39:12 *Xach* is catching up on a week's worth of correspondence 19:39:17 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:39:26 Xach: Keep your quill sharp. 19:39:40 setcap 'cap_net_bind_service=+ep' /path/to/program 19:40:06 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:40:17 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:28 benny [~benny@i577A2639.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:41:07 Xach: hmm, I've already a symlink from ~/quicklisp/local-projects/src-lisp to ~/src/lisp/ because I'd like to keep my projects here. But when I start a new project I would like to add it without rescanning every directories in ~/quicklisp/local-projects. 19:41:24 daimrod: oh, i see. why? 19:42:40 H4ns: cool. So I suppose one could build a server with Buildapp or whatever and then setcap the executable. 19:43:19 gigamonkey: right. i think this is preferable to telling people how to mess with suid root. 19:43:29 Xach: too slow ? I find this useless because quickproject:make-project already know the path of the new project so there is no point in rescanning everything. 19:43:39 daimrod: is it really too slow? 19:43:55 daimrod: how long does it take? 19:44:04 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:45:16 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 19:45:34 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:44 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:49 Xach: I don't know, 3-4 sec. 19:47:00 -!- petter``` [~user@217.118.44.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:47:28 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:29 I'll think about it. 19:51:09 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:52:00 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:52:13 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:54:22 Xach: ... forget it, I've done some tests and in fact it takes less than 1 sec... sorry I don't understand why it took so long before. 19:54:34 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 19:54:46 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:31 daimrod: hmm, ok. this is a new thing for me so i'm always interested in feedback (especially when reproducible) 19:57:52 daimrod: the next version of quickproject will have quickproject:*after-make-project-hooks* for that kind of thing. 19:58:04 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:59:46 Xach: woo that's cool. Thank you for your great work. 20:03:35 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-084-061-245-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 20:05:12 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:05:23 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:06:18 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:06:45 sacho_ [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 20:06:47 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.65.196] has joined #lisp 20:11:31 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.27.202] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:12:34 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:47 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:14:35 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:10 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d44a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:12 H4ns: so what are the high-level parts of Hunchentoot that you think will be most missed in Toot? 20:15:28 (i.e. which will need to be provided in higher-level servers) 20:16:36 hi 20:17:56 hello 20:22:22 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-255-43.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:46 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 20:23:19 what was the name of that mailbox implementation for cl? My googling powers have (yet again) failed me/ 20:23:33 mailboxes for parallelization things 20:23:52 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.90.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:24:02 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 20:26:40 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 20:26:54 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:28:35 prxq: there's various CSP implementations. SBCL also has its own mailbox implementation. (if I understand what you mean by mailbox...) 20:29:26 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 prxq: you can also use CFFI in some cases (might be important depending on environment) 20:30:17 p_l: CFFI to what? 20:30:18 xan_ [~xan@75.Red-95-122-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:08 sb-concurrency 20:31:11 hah 20:31:20 thanks 20:31:58 not much of a doc to find 20:32:01 sykopomp: system-wide mailboxes, for one 20:32:46 there was another package based on a c lib, and Fare liked it. I don't remember its name either. 20:32:49 depends on environment. I guess the zmq interface could as well be used 20:33:10 prxq: 0MQ? (sometimes called ZMQ) 20:33:47 that was the one 20:33:50 *Xach* gets to sbcl hackery 20:34:02 p_l: thanks 20:35:51 Xach: what are you hacking on? 20:36:10 isn't zmq mostly for messaging between different processes / boxes? 20:36:10 prxq: (sb-ext:set-sbcl-source-location pathname) 20:36:25 nikodemus: i didn't get that impression (the "mostly" part) 20:36:48 nikodemus: can be used internally as well 20:36:54 ok 20:38:51 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-65-6.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:11 cnl [~cnl@95.106.27.202] has joined #lisp 20:40:15 Kryztof: Did you add the #p"SYS:SITE;" thing just a few months ago? 20:40:34 I remember asking about it a few years ago, that seems like a nice solution. 20:40:53 gigamonkey: frankly, i don't know what the feature set of toot is right now. personally, i don't need much more than http handling, i have my own dispatcher anyway. generally, people want to be able serve static files and program their own easy-handlers. 20:41:08 gigamonkey: hi 20:42:04 Xach: 1.0.36.28, patch by Michael Weber it seems 20:42:28 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:45:50 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 20:46:12 nikodemus: Have you considered exposing CAS functionality as just an "accessor modifier" instead of replicating the SETF machinery (get-cas-expansion and stuff)? Things like (incf (cas (car foo)) 8) would Just Work then, and there would be no need to reimplement INCF and friends. 20:47:40 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:48:11 H4ns: so that's one thing: do people really like the easy-handler API? Or do they just use it because it's the closest thing to what they want. 20:48:45 IDKK12 [4c474fc7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.71.79.199] has joined #lisp 20:48:58 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:49:20 Basically Toot just gives you the ability to start an acceptor which will call the GF (handle-request handler request) on whatever handler you install in the acceptor. 20:49:32 i was wondering how you lisp professionals would compare lisp to c++ 20:49:36 Hexstream: i don't see how that would work 20:49:36 And there's a SERVE-FILE function that takes care of if-modified and range requests. 20:49:37 :) 20:49:54 IDKK12: watch who you're calling a professional there! 20:50:01 But we'd prefer it to C++. 20:50:03 sorry 20:50:11 why? 20:50:23 Because it suit our needs better. 20:50:24 it's a high level language right? 20:50:32 Yes. 20:50:44 Usually. 20:50:47 but does it have the speed of c/c++? 20:50:53 IDKK12: isn't c++ supposed to be? 20:50:53 Sometimes. 20:51:05 nikodemus: The storing form returned by the setf-expansion of (cas (car foo)) would just be the storing form of (car foo) plus whatever cas magic plus wrapped in a loop that tries repeatedly until the value has changed?... 20:51:17 IDKK12: it's within one magnitude difference most of the time, which is enough compared to some others ;) 20:51:23 IDKK12: what's "the" speed of c+++ 20:51:25 IDKK12: what's "the" speed of c++? 20:51:37 Hexstream: i still don't see how that would work 20:51:47 gigamonkey: i think, people want to associate urls and url prefixes with handlers 20:51:59 gigamonkey: personally, i never liked easy handlers, but that may be just me. 20:52:09 gigamonkey: what do you mean by your needs? 20:52:16 IDKK12: speed of development? that's much better in Lisp, generally. 20:52:18 H4ns: well, I can tell you, it's not just you. ;-) 20:52:23 maybe it could, but you'd need to write it out to me. have a look at cas.lisp and late-cas.lisp -- if you can make that work i'll be happy to put it in 20:52:40 nikodemus: Eh. Well, maybe you could familiarize yourself with the concept of "Accessor Modifier" first, place-utils has a few examples: http://www.hexstreamsoft.com/projects/place-utils/doc/Quick-Reference.html#Quick-Reference 20:52:41 IDKK12: those internal drives that if I don't satisfy them I'm unhappy. 20:53:03 yes but is Lisp capable of doing the same stuff as C++ (even the advanced stuff) 20:53:11 IDKK12: yes. 20:53:19 IDKK12: depends what you mean by "the same". And "stuff". 20:53:22 and Lisp is much eaiser to use because its a programmable programming language right? 20:53:27 nikodemus: Ok, I'll try to study this CAS thing so I can explain better. 20:53:35 like its capability 20:53:39 IDKK12: no, lisp is not "easy" 20:53:52 oh ok 20:54:06 IDKK12: neither is c++, though. 20:54:21 but you can program the language right? 20:54:36 like to make it do what you want in different ways 20:54:40 You can. 20:54:57 Do you know C++ well? 20:54:58 IDKK12: c++ templates allow you to program c++ as well. (ugh!) 20:55:08 nope 20:55:24 im just trying to gather info to decide on whether to learn c++ or lis 20:55:27 lisp* 20:55:40 Well, I'd recommend Lisp. 20:55:41 IDKK12: maybe you should learn to design programs first 20:55:52 But I don't know C++ well. 20:56:03 I have, unfortunatley I know Java 20:56:10 gigamonkey: i'd say toot neither needs to be able to serve files nor route requests. that is really higher-level stuff. 20:56:14 but thats because i learned it at school 20:56:16 Hexstream: I don't understand how a macro that expects a place expansion can transparently work with CAS. 20:56:48 Though I talked to some folks who do know C++ well: http://gigamonkeys.wordpress.com/2009/10/16/coders-c-plus-plus/ 20:56:51 IDKK12: I don't think you'll get an unbiased opinion here :-) 20:57:07 IDKK12: the biggest question is, what do you want to program? 20:57:08 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:57:17 H4ns: well, I'm going to keep the serve-file function in there since it encapsulates a bunch of knowledge about HTTP. 20:57:19 there's also no such thing as "c++ performance" -- allocating objects is one thing, doing vectorizable arithmetic is another (and there are a bazillion other things as well). object allocation and initialization isn't particularly blazingly fast in c++, vectorizable stuff can be -- but only thanks to smart compilers, not because c++ is magical 20:57:28 But actually hooking that up to a handler is an exercise for higher-level code. 20:57:34 so wait, when you can change up how you do things in lisp, does that mean you can make it do the task eaiser or does it mean you can make it do whatever you want including other stuff 20:57:40 there are good use cases for each language 20:58:07 ruediger: I am not sure, I wanted to make some software, and hopefully do some games 20:58:18 can you write mobile apps with lisp? 20:58:20 software? oh well, then you need c++, obviously. 20:58:26 IDKK12: tanstaafl 20:58:42 why not lisp for software? 20:58:52 IDKK12: he was kidding. 20:58:54 IDKK12: what kind of games? 20:59:26 not small games like MW3, Gears of War 3 and etc 20:59:36 wait! 20:59:37 pkhuong: The accessor modifier CAS (which is a place that accepts a place and returns its setf-expansion, except "enhanced" in some way) would add the compare-and-swap stuff to the storing form of the inner place... Seems pretty intuitive to me. 20:59:40 let me rephrase 21:00:10 not small games, more like MW3, Gears of War 3, Assasins Creed Revelations, adn etc 21:00:11 and* 21:00:17 pkhuong: And a loop around the storing form until the operation is successful. 21:00:21 sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399486.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:00:25 IDKK12: what languages do you know well? 21:00:34 IDKK12: are you aware of the size of the teams that write such games? 21:00:47 Hexstream: not to me. The loop must involve recomputing the new value. 21:00:53 Bleh. Clisp in Lucid is too old for quicklisp (ext:probe-pathname doesn't exist until 2.47, Lucid has 2.44). 21:00:59 yes but what language do they typically use 21:01:02 -!- sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399486.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:01:06 IDKK12: for games like MW3 you should learn C++. It's the common language for that industry 21:01:12 gigamonkey: not that much, maybe Java 21:01:14 IDKK12: no. but here is something: lisp is much more fun to program in than c++. learn it. also, it gives you extra experience points when you're ready to take a real job. 21:01:35 IDKK12: then you've got a ways to go before you're ready to tackle a project of that size. 21:01:44 Along the way you'll have time to learn a bunch of languages. 21:01:55 yes but doesnt learning many languages make you less capable in each language 21:02:01 No. More. 21:02:03 no 21:02:06 pkhuong: Then it can just... recompute the old value? 21:02:45 Hexstream: How is that useful? 21:02:49 The storing form can read the old value of the place as many times as needed. (of course the subforms are evaluated only once regardless) 21:02:53 can you do any web development with Lisp or C++ 21:02:56 The point of cas is that the old and new value are related. 21:03:10 IDKK12: Lisp would be much more enjoyable than C++ for web stuff. 21:03:17 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:03:18 what is a CAS ? 21:03:19 i know some people use different languages to maintain their sites and etc along with HTML and etc 21:03:22 oh ok 21:03:28 There's no use CASing without re-reading the old value and recomputing the new value accordingly. 21:03:35 pkhuong: Doesn't (incf (cas (car foo))) qualify as useful? 21:03:39 homie: computer algebra system 21:03:40 ,CAS 21:03:46 Most web programming is done with much higher-level languages than C++. 21:03:46 Hexstream: and how would that expand? 21:03:47 no 21:03:54 ruediger: Compare-And-Swap in this context 21:04:01 ah yes 21:04:07 nikodemus: lol sorry :D 21:04:13 I am currently learning AutoHotkey and then I will do Python, but then I want to learn C++ or Lisp 21:04:16 homie: http://random-state.net/log/3530170348.html 21:04:21 only saw the question 21:04:35 but now i see that learning lisp sounds fun 21:04:40 Hexstream: there is no way to implement the loop right without knowing how the new value can be computed from the old. Unfortunately, that's not how get-setf-expansion works. 21:04:49 but im also going to ask the c++ channel 21:04:51 We only get the new value. 21:05:22 IDKK12: just start coding in something. If you've heard about the language, it's good enough to be useful. 21:05:37 pkhuong: not true. I've heard of Brainfuck. 21:05:51 lol 21:05:56 And Intercal. 21:06:19 IDKK12: you're also not going to be able to make an educated choice of a language before learning a few different ones, and writing notable amounts of code in each 21:06:41 And C++. Hexstream: If you keep casing in a loop until the old value is right, it'll loop forever. If you re-read the old value without updating the new value, you might as well be using a regular store. 21:08:34 nikodemus: yes i am learning autohotkey and python before attempting c++ or lisp 21:10:01 chartered accountancy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMOmB1q8W4Y 21:10:12 nikodemus: is 5 languages a lot to know? 21:10:32 IDKK12: it definitely may be enough :-) 21:10:40 Guest52638 [~giovanni@net77-43-72-10.mclink.it] has joined #lisp 21:10:47 !list 21:11:00 -!- Guest52638 [~giovanni@net77-43-72-10.mclink.it] has left #lisp 21:11:05 autohotkey probably doesn't count as a general purpose programming language... 21:11:16 pkhuong: I don't really understand your objections, but that's probably a failing on my part. (incf (cas (car foo))), if it's implementable at all, would definitely be useful, right? 21:11:25 ehu: ok :P i was thinking of AHK, python, C/C++, Lisp, and Javascript 21:11:38 Hexstream: what would it expand into? 21:11:44 ehu: HTML and CSS really dont count :D 21:11:56 IDKK12: there is no language C/C++. C and C++ are different languages 21:12:00 IDKK12: "learning" a programming language means actually using it to write real programs for at least 6 months. 21:12:02 A setf expansion only has access to the new value, not a function that computes it from the old one. 21:12:13 Hexstream: useful yes, it's the implementable part that we're having trouble with 21:12:35 IDKK12: don't try to learn many things at once 21:12:38 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:12:41 nikodemus: Well, good, because I'm pretty sure it's implementable. 21:12:46 ok 21:12:51 immerse yourself in one thing for a while 21:13:06 Hexstream: so, what does it expand into? 21:13:13 pkhuong: I'm writing it... 21:13:33 well then ill just use the ones im using right now, but then after some experience I will learn what I need to 21:13:43 thank you everyone for your help! 21:13:51 (get-setf-expansion '(cas (car foo))) would return the dummies of (car foo), the subforms of (car foo), the newvar of (car foo), the storing form of (car foo) annotated with CAS with the o value of foo (read with the reading form of (car foo)) and a loop until it succeeds, and the reading form of (car foo) 21:13:57 I have to go now, bye! 21:13:58 IDKK12: welcome 21:14:04 -!- IDKK12 [4c474fc7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.76.71.79.199] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:14:10 with the old value of* 21:14:11 Hexstream: that loops forever as soon as the CAR is modified. 21:14:53 pkhuong: Oh. Hum. 21:15:07 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:15:09 catphive [~brenmill@50-46-167-81.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:01 define-modify-macro could be adapted for CAS, though. 21:16:07 pkhuong: You mean if the car is modified by... whom? 21:16:14 Something else? 21:16:25 Hexstream: any other thread. The point of CAS is lock-free concurrency. 21:17:04 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:17:41 so I've been learning lisp a bit, but don't always have the hang of the best way to do logic 21:17:49 loop for do vs other control structures 21:17:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125849 21:18:00 that's a linked list merge sort 21:18:12 maybe let me know if there's a better way to do that 21:21:07 catphive: (loop for x in list collect (foo x)) is a long way to write (mapcar #'foo list) 21:24:38 Ah, fuck, yeah, I hadn't considered that the new value has to be recomputed with respect to the old value each time the CAS fails... 21:26:59 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33B6A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:27:17 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 21:30:18 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:30:18 Xach: thanks, good point 21:30:53 -!- duomo [~duomo@120-dcmp11.goeaston.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:32:57 wtf, i don't get how much paypal is booking for transactions....i transferred 50 to my account and left is only 26.97.... 21:33:04 ? 21:33:30 1,9%+0,35 is what of 50 ? 21:33:37 homie: wrong channel 21:34:42 what about (loop until condition forms) 21:35:24 that is ok 21:36:17 pkhuong: What about (setf (cas (car foo)) #'1+), then? 21:36:57 A bit of an abuse, perhaps, but that could be convenient. 21:37:02 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:37:14 Hexstream: what sort of setf form is that? I'd rather borrow from define-modify-macro 21:37:30 pkhuong: Yes, that's an option. 21:37:32 I'm kind of surprised CL doesn't just have top level until and while macros 21:37:54 catphive: LOOP is a big magnet. 21:38:09 everything gets sucked into loop? 21:39:03 catphive: Not just that, the rest of the language has some lackings and evolves slower because LOOP is "good enough". 21:41:19 loop seems pretty useful... but it looks like it could be broken up into components, and maybe use iterators 21:41:47 I guess clojure does something like that? I haven't really looked into it so much though 21:41:50 catphive: Hah, you bet. I'm working on that... 21:43:30 This is not actually a setf so (updatef (cas (car foo)) #'1+) would be more appropriate. That seems more convenient that making a new "atomic" version of every modify macro in existence, even if it's just a matter of (define-atomic-modify-macro atomic-foo non-atomic-foo) 21:44:11 Hexstream: that's "more convenient" in the same way as funcallf would be more convenient than incf. 21:46:20 pkhuong: Precisely. The most often used could be made a modify-macro, and the less often used you just use updatef... 21:46:46 Anyway, I guess everything has been said on the matter. 21:47:04 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:47:25 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:12 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 21:56:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:57:52 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:36 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:02:26 ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@173.204.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:02:59 Hey, is this a good place for a noobish CL question? 22:05:01 it worked for me! 22:05:18 (also, you should always just ask the question. no matter what/where/anything) 22:05:38 A good philosophy :] 22:06:00 ifnspifn: what's up? 22:06:08 Alright, so I'm trying to reduce the amount of calls to an inefficient minimax algorithm I've made 22:06:17 ifnspifn: this channel is good for questions that go beyond things like "what does car mean" or "what is a variable" 22:06:22 by binding the resultant list to a variable 22:06:53 what I'd essentially like to do (in this example I'll replace minimax with addition) is this: 22:07:09 I got away with "what's a comment", hard to get more noobish than that afaict :) 22:07:14 (let ((x (+ 1 1)) (y (+ x 1)) (+ x y)) 22:07:21 haha, good point :) 22:07:32 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:07:34 SBCL is yelling at me that x is unbound 22:07:47 which makes sense, but I want to avoid doing a nested let 22:08:07 ifnspifn: http://l1sp.org/cl/let* is a let variation that makes earlier bindings visible to later bindings. 22:08:42 alas, this is for a university course, and our professor will be running our code on a vanilla SBCL compiler 22:09:15 is let* available in regular ol' sbcl? 22:09:20 let* is standard 22:09:27 excellent news! 22:09:31 let* is a standard special operator. 22:09:59 ifnspifn: anything linked by http://l1sp.org/cl/ is in the standard 22:10:21 fantastic :] works out great 22:11:19 ifnspifn: which university? (just curious to learn where sbcl is being used) 22:11:40 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:44 University of Central Florida, it's for an intro to AI course 22:11:57 under Dr. Fernando Gomez 22:12:10 do you know what version of sbcl it is? 22:12:13 SBCL's been my into to Lisp, and it's really quite a lovely language :] 22:12:48 I can ssh into the University's computer on which the code is compiled; is there any way to find out the version from there? 22:13:14 sbcl --version # has the least keystrokes :) 22:13:56 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 22:14:37 SBCL 1.0.45 22:14:46 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has quit [Quit: going to moon brb] 22:14:48 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 22:15:46 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:06 also, quick emacs question: how does one quickly comment out a block of highlighted code? 22:16:18 #| this is commented out #| 22:16:25 brilliant! 22:16:26 thanks 22:16:32 oops #| this is commented out |# 22:16:43 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@AntiSpamMeta/.] has joined #lisp 22:16:43 note the symmetry 22:16:46 aye 22:16:46 #|| this might font-lock better, if that matters ||# 22:17:13 also, perhaps more conveniently #+nil (this is commented out) 22:17:30 huzzah, the code is much more succinct now 22:17:41 In emacs, M-x comment-region does line-by-line commenting (in any language it knows the line-comment symbol). 22:18:23 also good to know, thanks! 22:18:59 zzz time, laters 22:19:02 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:13 -!- oconnore [~Eric@138.110.174.172] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:20:33 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 22:20:40 ifnspifn: what uni are you at? 22:21:01 prxq: central florida 22:21:30 yup, UCF 22:21:31 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:41 Florida is a Lisp hotbed. 22:21:51 really? 22:21:56 cool :-) 22:22:08 ifnspifn: there's a company slurping up all kinds of lisp talent there! 22:22:17 http://lispjobs.wordpress.com/2011/06/20/even-more-lisp-developers-mcna-dental-ft-lauderdale-fl/ 22:22:53 there's some folks up in Gainesville, too. 22:23:42 ah yes 22:24:19 gotta say, getting paid to lisp sounds a whole lot more appealing than the graphical pseudocoding my current gig's got me doing 22:24:42 lisp is addictive 22:25:25 indeed! it's like being told to build a cathedral with your bare hands, and getting it done in 45 minutes 22:25:39 where the code's just as beautiful as the product :D 22:26:19 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:28:38 ifnspifn: heh 22:28:53 thanks again for the help, all! later~ 22:28:59 -!- ifnspifn [~ifnspifn@173.204.91.184.cfl.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:31:14 __mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:32:10 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 22:32:44 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:15 sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399486.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 22:40:46 wws [~billstcla@p-69-195-58-96.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:59 -!- wws [wws@clozure-51BF8B83.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 22:43:34 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:44:04 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 22:44:30 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:09 Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:39 Is there a function in lisp that will return the object type for a given object? 22:46:12 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:51 Quaydon: type-of 22:46:55 Quaydon: type-of, but it may not always do what you expect. 22:47:03 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:12 amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has joined #lisp 22:47:40 minion: tell nyef the bots should be stable again 22:47:40 nyef: watch out, you'll make krystof angry 22:48:01 minion: message for nyef the bots should be stable again 22:48:01 watch out, you'll make krystof angry 22:48:13 hmm. what's the command? 22:48:15 minion: memo for nyef: the bots should be stable again 22:48:15 Remembered. I'll tell nyef when he/she/it next speaks. 22:48:23 thanks. 22:48:33 yay for bots! 22:48:51 I keep having issues with that command. doesn't fit my fingers. 22:49:05 anyway, 22:49:22 woha... that auto-memo thing 22:49:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.187.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:49:29 *knob* *blink 22:49:32 now I need to backport that to cl-irc, instead of having local edits 22:49:44 hi people 22:50:52 pkhuong: when doesn't type-of do what you'd expect? 22:51:35 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 22:51:44 -!- amnesiac [~amnesiac@p3m/member/Amnesiac] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:52:06 minion: what does XUSK stand for? 22:52:07 Xyloquinone Urethrectomy Suprahepatic Knelt 22:52:13 seems to work :) 22:52:32 lol 22:54:51 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.90.181] has joined #lisp 22:58:42 pkhuong, What do you mean? There wouldn't happen to be a copy object function would there? 23:00:28 Quaydon: If you're on SBCL, you can try (type-of 0), or (type-of 2), for instance. 23:00:48 And no, there's no generic copying function, just like there's no generic equality function. 23:01:07 fun fact: there is a nearly-generic copying function 23:01:18 if all your objects are structures, there is copy-structure 23:01:49 (mind you, it almost never does what you actually want) 23:01:50 fantazo [~fantazo@178-191-173-50.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 23:01:57 Kryztof: should teach people not to instantiate CLOS classes! 23:04:12 [6502] [4e0ce17d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.12.225.125] has joined #lisp 23:04:27 well, there is a copy-instance floating somewhere in lisppaste. 23:04:38 works, mostly. 23:05:03 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:05:13 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:05:18 hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:05:38 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 23:05:46 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@70.83.34.240] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:05:57 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 23:07:00 <[6502]> hello. When using return-from the name of the function is a symbol or is bound to the function currently seen with that name where the return-from is? 23:07:04 maxm--- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 23:07:14 -!- maxm-- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:07:16 -!- rdd [~rdd@c83-250-153-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:07:33 [6502]: ENOENGLISH. 23:07:36 <[6502]> in other words the lookup symbol->function is dynamically done or statically done? 23:07:43 <[6502]> hmm 23:07:50 -!- wws [~billstcla@p-69-195-58-96.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:08:02 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:08:15 [6502]: dynamically 23:08:15 <[6502]> pkhuong: suppose i've (defun foo () (bar (lambda ()(return-from foo 42))) 23:08:21 [6502]: statically. You can return-from local functions. 23:08:24 -!- eli [~eli@129.10.115.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:08:45 heh. 23:09:04 And statically: return-from unwinds to the activation record that corresponds to the lexically enclosing BLOCK. 23:09:17 and then there is redefinition 23:09:19 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 23:09:23 <[6502]> pkhuong: and (defun bar (f) (labels ((foo () (funcall f)))) 23:09:44 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176324795.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:09:47 <[6502]> the "foo" that the lambda is returning from is the label or the global? 23:09:49 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 23:09:51 good night 23:09:54 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75d44a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:10:18 <[6502]> so it's the global, not the label 23:10:38 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:13:04 <[6502]> pkhuong: wow... the *activation record*, not even the function 23:13:59 <[6502]> this will be tricky to implement in my compiler to js 23:14:45 it's the same as throw/catch. 23:15:33 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-163.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:15:39 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-163.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 23:15:50 <[6502]> yes, i'm using js exceptions of course... but I need to create an unique activation record object to be sure to identify the correct return signature 23:16:30 <[6502]> right now i was just using a symbol (the function name) 23:16:37 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.65.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:17:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:17:35 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-198-224.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:19:07 <[6502]> i need a separate namespace for that... 23:21:01 [6502]: for the nth time, read . 23:21:19 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:27:29 -!- __mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:29:11 <[6502]> pkhuong: defining "if" in terms of "get" seems strange :-D ... but the text looks very interesting (I always had mixed feelings about the need of special operators...) 23:31:52 __mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 23:33:00 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:38:10 -!- __mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:40:09 zmv [~zmv@c9533879.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:40:15 __mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 23:41:05 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:45:56 <[6502]> It's bad enough that there are already more lawyers than engineers in the United States, without having these few remaining engineers talking and acting like lawyers, as well. 23:46:40 maxm---- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 23:47:54 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:48:10 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:48:38 -!- erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:49:12 -!- prip [~foo@host214-124-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:49:19 erg [~erg@li32-38.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:49:36 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:46 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:49:54 tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:14 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 23:50:20 -!- quackv4 [~quack@108.59.253.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:50:20 -!- wolgo [~jarrod@184-106-197-125.static.cloud-ips.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:50:41 wolgo [~jarrod@184-106-197-125.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:46 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:54 -!- maxm--- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:50:55 DataLinkDroid [~David@1.144.234.177] has joined #lisp 23:52:25 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.224.243] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 23:52:36 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:52:49 -!- earlgray [~Adium@inherent.puzzler.volia.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:53:22 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 23:53:29 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:39 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has joined #lisp 23:58:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@75.Red-95-122-109.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]