00:06:27 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:07:16 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:08:30 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:43 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:58 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.112.32] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:10:12 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 00:13:06 how can I load a pathname with a wild card? 00:14:02 -!- locci [~Nessuno@unaffiliated/carlocci] has quit [] 00:14:46 Quaydon: something like (mapc #'load (directory #P"my/*.lisp")) 00:18:49 cpc262 [~cpc26@66-87-7-218.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:31 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.65.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:20:30 -!- cpc261 [~cpc26@66-87-2-9.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:45 -!- cpc262 [~cpc26@66-87-7-218.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:22:28 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 00:22:53 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has joined #lisp 00:24:48 -!- eulyix [~charles@2.26.61.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:27:38 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.47.174] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:31:04 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:33:18 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869c28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:37:12 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-44-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 00:38:27 -!- mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:38:36 Its still complaining about how it cannot find the TRUE NAME with (load #P"game.l*") 00:39:33 -!- ThomasH[tmh] [4b1be7fa@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:39:33 mogs [~mogs@125.177.43.132] has joined #lisp 00:41:10 DorkimusPrime [DorkimusPr@cpe-74-68-108-194.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:41:34 pnathan [~Adium@129.101.59.40] has joined #lisp 00:42:47 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@46.105.251.111] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 00:45:43 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 00:48:19 -!- pnathan [~Adium@129.101.59.40] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:48:44 -!- H4ns [57a9ed05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.237.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 00:49:15 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.116] has joined #lisp 00:49:34 jwd [~jwd@cable-118-42.sssnet.com] has joined #lisp 00:49:48 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:51:17 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869c28.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:00 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.65] has joined #lisp 00:53:38 Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:54:24 -!- mensch [~mensch@c-98-217-184-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:54:41 -!- Transformer [~Transform@ool-4a59e397.dyn.optonline.net] has left #lisp 01:08:52 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 01:10:59 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869c28.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 01:17:18 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:17:44 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:18:12 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 01:21:30 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has joined #lisp 01:21:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has quit [Changing host] 01:21:34 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:21:48 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:22:59 am0c [~am0c@220.126.34.165] has joined #lisp 01:25:23 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:26:44 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-075.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:27:18 -!- ikarus- [~ikarus-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:28:47 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.63.155] has joined #lisp 01:31:24 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 01:32:24 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:32:58 Bfig [~BFigares@r186-48-242-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 01:33:40 sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:24 hello, i've started reading SICP but i'd like to get a quick idea of what lisp is all about. so far what i've seen is that it sort of works like untyped lambda calculus, does this sound reasonable? 01:34:58 from a theoretical, boring POV, yes 01:35:22 <_schulte_> for another POV maybe take a look at http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/introduction-why-lisp.html 01:35:43 cool www name =) 01:36:54 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:39:42 sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:48:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.37.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:50:25 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:47 aglenday [~aglenday@59.167.161.74] has joined #lisp 01:55:17 -!- linuxsable [~linuxsabl@c-98-210-64-158.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:58:31 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:58:39 Bfig: yet another POV http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/lisp.html 02:01:01 pnathan [~Adium@50-37-85-68.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:35 Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.181.76] has joined #lisp 02:03:08 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:04:33 alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-206-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:44 -!- Quaydon [~aaaaaaa@cpe-071-068-114-143.carolina.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:05:58 -!- aglenday [~aglenday@59.167.161.74] has quit [Quit: HydraIRC -> http://www.hydrairc.com <- The alternative IRC client] 02:06:03 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-044.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-044.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:07:50 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-044.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 02:08:00 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 02:08:11 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Client Quit] 02:08:21 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 02:09:04 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-111-224.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:11:21 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-44-107.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:11:33 glix [~glix@183.29.224.36] has joined #lisp 02:12:40 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:16:03 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-165.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:24 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:19:41 -!- drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:23:43 yroeht [~yroeht@x.yroeht.eu] has joined #lisp 02:26:26 Hi 02:26:49 Does car stand for something? And cdr? 02:27:21 Just wondering... just learned that cdr is used to grab the value of the second slot, or remainder of a list. 02:27:27 contents of the address register, contents of the decrement register 02:27:31 I believe. 02:27:34 And car is used for getting the thing out of the first slot of a cell. 02:27:36 Ahh 02:27:38 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:41 awesome info =) 02:27:41 thanks 02:27:58 It's a historical artifact. 02:28:14 In the sense that it's not used much anymore? 02:28:53 It was named based on how that was implemented back in the day. I don't think it has any relevance today. 02:29:23 Ah ok 02:29:39 I'm just starting out with LISP, and the book was mentioning them 02:29:46 knob: low level specifics of a veery old mainframe 02:29:46 Just wrote that info down on the margin 02:30:28 back when CONS cell was built out of 4 elements 02:31:06 (also an implementation-specific thing) 02:31:08 Sorry, just to learn: What where those 4? And how is it built now? 02:31:18 *yes, I'm learning on "CLISP" 02:31:31 knob: CPR, CAR, CDR, CTR 02:31:41 Prefix, Address, decrement, tag 02:31:56 3bit, 15bit, 15bit, 3 bit, iirc 02:32:25 it followed machine instruction format, afaik 02:32:30 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B11F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:35 ahh ok 02:32:38 interesting info 02:32:55 I read a good post from someone recently, I think it was Kent Pitman, where he said something about enjoying how those historical artifacts that remain. Can't find it now. 02:32:58 and the name came actually from assembler macross 02:33:10 not cpu instructions 02:33:33 *macros 02:34:45 something akin to "rebooting" a machine... or "debugging", I would guess 02:34:48 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:34:54 Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-48-221-70.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 02:35:28 doritos [~joshua@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:45 -!- Bfig [~BFigares@r186-48-242-221.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:42:26 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5E0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:50 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 02:44:46 ? 02:48:06 -!- am0c [~am0c@220.126.34.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:49:15 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:50:37 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:51:32 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.76] has joined #lisp 02:51:32 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.76] has quit [Changing host] 02:51:32 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:55:35 -!- loz [~user@87.226.216.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:58:05 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 03:03:41 daimrod, pretty good tutorial... exactly what i expected from macros :D. very well put 03:07:53 I think there's a good explanation in the book 'practical common lisp' 03:09:28 -!- jwd [~jwd@cable-118-42.sssnet.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:10:01 -!- pnathan [~Adium@50-37-85-68.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:10:29 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-230-13.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:34 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-230-13.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:10:34 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 03:13:19 hmm, I'm confused 03:13:24 also, coi coyo 03:13:37 coi rodo 03:13:38 so, I'm reading the chapter about closures and lexically scoped variables and such 03:13:46 and say I define a function 03:14:10 (defvar *x* 10) (defun foo () (setf *x* (+ 1 x))) 03:14:17 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:14:43 I originally thought that since we were using (setf) inside a function, that it would be lexically scoped and wouldn't change the global value of *x* 03:14:46 but, it does 03:15:10 is it only let that introduces a new scope, or does the defintion of a function not change the scope of a variable? 03:15:32 *x* is a dynamic variable, there. That's what defvar does. 03:15:53 djanatyn: you didn't make a new binding to a special variable 03:16:01 so it refered to the global one 03:16:12 I agree 03:16:13 oh, okay! 03:16:56 (defun foo () (let ((*x* 10)) (setf *x* (+ 1 x)))) ; would do what you expected 03:17:06 yeah, I see 03:19:20 or maybe (let ((x 10)) (defun foo () (setf x (1+ x)))) 03:21:19 I can't tell the difference, just as djanatyn said, what would you expect 03:21:40 I prefer to keep my defuns toplevel 03:22:43 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:54 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:51 it's different though, what I wrote increments a lexical variable one more with each call 03:26:16 Kron [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has joined #lisp 03:26:42 -!- Kron is now known as Guest81888 03:26:43 hmm, quicklisp is a bit confusing. 03:26:50 does anyone know a good introduction, or tutorial or something? 03:27:28 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:27:51 the directions on the quicklisp website are pretty good 03:28:18 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:30:06 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ particularly the install section and basic commands section 03:30:41 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:34:21 *djanatyn* writes a guessing game in common lisp! 03:37:03 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has joined #lisp 03:37:13 rme [~rme@50.43.148.59] has joined #lisp 03:39:17 -!- Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-48-221-70.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:41:12 djanatyn: the link I gave you may be a little short on the "what and why" of quicklisp, IIRC these screencasts were pretty good http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=11wYPAy9qNw 03:41:13 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:42:14 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 03:47:23 ...oh, apparently I wrote a guessing game in common lisp before! 03:47:27 but this one is better, I think 03:47:30 it doesn't work yet, thuogh ;) 03:48:42 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125827 03:49:23 I'm not sure why it doesn't work, or how I should be running it 03:49:37 aaaaaah 03:49:42 it's trying to compare strings with numbers 03:50:18 needs to use (parse-integer) 03:54:25 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.56] has joined #lisp 03:55:08 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.56] has quit [Client Quit] 03:56:55 -!- Untrustworthy [~foo@c-75-70-167-114.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:00:48 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:08 glix_ [~glix@69.172.214.106] has joined #lisp 04:01:14 Vivitron: thanks for he link 04:01:16 lemoinem [~swoog@76-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:50 el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8C89E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:53 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 04:02:06 -!- glix [~glix@183.29.224.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:02:30 -!- el-maxo [~max@p57A5642D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:02:43 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:37 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@46.105.251.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:07:31 chenbing [~user@115.192.192.20] has joined #lisp 04:09:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-55-107.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #lisp 04:09:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-55-107.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 04:09:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:17:45 chenbing` [~user@218.72.89.99] has joined #lisp 04:19:33 -!- chenbing [~user@115.192.192.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:29:15 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:18 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082AA0A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:13 -!- chenbing` [~user@218.72.89.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:31:13 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082BF8D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:33:35 man, macros are cool :D 04:34:18 pnathan [~Adium@50-37-85-68.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 04:37:10 chenbing` [~user@218.72.94.81] has joined #lisp 04:37:13 -!- jimmyrcom [~fold@adsl-75-53-42-35.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 04:39:42 sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399197.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:45:02 -!- chenbing` [~user@218.72.94.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:52:01 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.56] has joined #lisp 04:52:09 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.168.80] has joined #lisp 04:53:10 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:50 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 05:01:08 hmm, so I was trying to recreate map with functions, but it didn't work 05:01:27 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-114.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:02:03 I'm not quite sure why: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125828 05:02:49 djanatyn: try (null list) instead of (= list nil), and funcall? 05:03:02 oooh, funcall, forgot about that! 05:03:04 thanks! 05:03:14 -!- pnathan [~Adium@50-37-85-68.mscw.id.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:05:26 hmm, it still doesn't work, though 05:06:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125828#1 05:06:14 (my-map (lambda (x) (+ x 1)) '(1 2 3 4 5) nil) ; returns an error 05:06:43 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has joined #lisp 05:08:36 no error here, djanatyn, though the output is reversed from what you probably want 05:09:23 hmm, weird 05:09:38 I'll try it in sbcl, using clozure-cl when I got the error 05:09:48 there's a built in function 1+ with the effect of that lambda, also 05:11:09 yeah, I know :) 05:11:12 I just wanted something simple 05:11:35 man, writing lisp is so crazy. it's so...expressive. with just a little bit of knowledge you can do so much 05:11:52 works in sbcl 05:12:54 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:13:55 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 05:18:10 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:18:31 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125828#2 :D 05:18:54 okay, that's it, I'm hooked on lisp 05:21:01 even works in scheme (guile) with the appropriate syntax adaptions 05:33:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:36:42 sweet :) final version (with &optional so you don't have to add nil at the end): http://paste.lisp.org/display/125828#4 05:40:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:40:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:49:14 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 05:52:47 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:56:40 -!- MjrTom [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:56:41 MjrTom_ [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has joined #lisp 05:56:55 -!- MjrTom_ is now known as MjrTom 05:58:46 hba [~hba@187.171.202.51] has joined #lisp 05:59:32 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-190-66.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:33 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-190-66.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:59:33 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 06:02:12 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:02:43 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-190-66.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:43 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-190-66.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:02:43 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 06:03:24 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:03:40 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-190-66.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:03:40 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-190-66.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:03:40 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 06:05:12 -!- sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:12:14 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.63.155] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 06:19:29 H4ns [57a9ed05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.237.5] has joined #lisp 06:21:11 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 06:23:44 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:13 chenbing` [~user@218.72.89.141] has joined #lisp 06:24:51 I notice slime start with different swank port each time. 06:28:00 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:28:34 you can use (swank:create-server :port ) to create a swank server on a specific port. 06:30:09 H4ns:Are you familar with macro expansion of marcar? 06:30:17 mapcar 06:30:23 no 06:30:56 chenbing`: mapcar is not a macro. 06:31:43 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 06:32:06 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:32:36 there is some trickish in &rest argu ,seems to funcall other than apply,since it acquire accurate arguments numbers 06:35:34 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.210.70] has joined #lisp 06:35:54 Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-48-221-70.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 06:37:56 akovalenko: you are always right 06:40:47 -!- Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-48-221-70.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:44:46 -!- chenbing` [~user@218.72.89.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:46:22 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:24 tritchey 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micro__ [~micro@www.bway.net] has left #lisp 07:41:09 what is the best/up-to-date SDL binding/wrapper package for Common Lisp? 07:41:46 micro__ [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:26 lispbuilder-sdl 07:44:47 Guest70349 [~attila_le@81.211.133.45] has joined #lisp 07:46:42 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:47:22 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-190-66.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:47:22 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-190-66.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 07:47:22 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 07:53:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:35 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:59:45 -!- Guest70349 [~attila_le@81.211.133.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:01:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-82-044.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 08:02:04 -!- dmiles_afk 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quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:24:30 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:27:43 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:34:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-165.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:38:25 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@76-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:38:54 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.20] has joined #lisp 08:43:18 -!- eulyix [~charles@2.26.61.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:44:50 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:49:54 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 08:56:46 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:58:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.38.54] has joined #lisp 08:58:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@87.247.38.54] has quit [Changing host] 08:58:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:02:06 hi 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Yuuhi [benni@p5483DBCF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:38 xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:48:55 p_l: that cannot be lispbuilder-sdl, it's at least 3 years old. 10:50:08 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 10:51:20 pjb: well, SDL for me died off kinda after the rewrite (iirc) 10:51:33 and it had fairly stable API 10:52:43 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:52 lanthan_ [~ze@pD95545F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:09 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:55:36 -!- lanthan [~ze@pD9554175.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:03:03 Guest83109 [~drake01@115.246.166.144] has joined #lisp 11:03:31 -!- Guest83109 [~drake01@115.246.166.144] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:05:41 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 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[~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 11:54:30 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 11:55:18 Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.184] has joined #lisp 11:55:26 Hi all! 11:56:43 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:57:15 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 12:00:04 Bah! humbug! 12:03:01 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:04:06 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:06:59 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@2002:5f4c:1644:1234:21e:8cff:fe02:168a] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:09:51 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 12:09:59 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-139.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:10:20 -!- wbooze`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-139.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:11:19 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:16:27 H4ns [5b3d5d1a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.93.26] has joined #lisp 12:16:53 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 12:18:55 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 12:20:01 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 12:20:10 _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 12:20:23 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:14 HG` [~HG@tmo-110-254.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 12:24:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:08 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:15 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:25:07 oudeis_ [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 12:26:01 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-72.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:26:58 pjb: what is the best code structure for state machines? cond ? 12:27:36 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-253-42.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:27:53 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:27:54 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-253-42.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:28:12 Posterdati: i like to use labels 12:28:33 the current state is a local function that is called with the next input to return the subsequent state 12:29:22 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.56] has joined #lisp 12:29:31 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:29:33 so something like (let ((state #'initial)) (loop while input do (setf state (funcall state input)))))))) or similar 12:32:41 Xach: I did http://paste.lisp.org/display/125829 12:33:07 Xach: so state are functions call (in your example= 12:33:10 Xach: so state are functions call (in your example) 12:33:23 Xach: interesting 12:34:19 Xach: so every state is a function... I use to see states in a fsm like case in switch statements :) 12:34:40 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869656.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 12:34:51 urandom__ [~user@p548A324E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:00 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-139.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:21 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-139.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:36:39 https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-client/blob/master/http.lisp#L517 has an example for parsing an HTTP header. 12:38:56 ok, thanks 12:39:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:57 aliao [~aliao@123.9.192.225] has joined #lisp 12:45:48 -!- aliao [~aliao@123.9.192.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:55:00 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 12:55:14 Xach: do you have any plans to support a user-editable local-project paths in quicklisp? 12:58:15 dru1d [~lukasz@82.177.172.217] has joined #lisp 12:58:35 francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has joined #lisp 12:58:59 Is it possible to unbind/forget a macro/function definition? 12:59:15 unintern ? 13:00:41 Bahman: literally, fmakunbound does that. 13:00:43 phrixos: I use symlink but iirc it might not work with every cl implementation. 13:01:09 Uninterning is another option which has different semantics - it leaves the definition around for existing uses, but means that the next time you use that *name* it will be a new name. 13:01:26 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-132-137.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:02:21 that is, fmakunbound will break already-loaded code using the function (but leave it possible to redefine); unintern won't but leaves you unable to redefine. unintern also takes out the entire symbol rather than just the function binding 13:02:58 daimrod: i'm using asdf:*central-registry* at the moment, but that's my last explicit tie with asdf 13:03:05 and i'd like to cut it 13:03:06 kpreid: Thanks. FMAKUNBOUND is what I need. 13:04:11 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869656.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:50 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:08:20 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:09:20 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 13:10:40 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:14:21 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 13:14:21 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 13:14:21 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 13:18:18 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:19:20 Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.181.76] has joined #lisp 13:20:20 phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has joined #lisp 13:21:29 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:28:06 is there a doc to explain regexp format for cl-ppcre? 13:28:33 Posterdati: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlre.html 13:28:35 Posterdati: it's perl-compatible. 13:29:01 if you have perl installed on your system, try $ perldoc perlretut 13:29:27 H4ns, pkhuong: ah ok, thanks 13:31:10 but see also http://weitz.de/cl-ppcre/#perl 13:33:24 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:04 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.65] has joined #lisp 13:35:48 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.181.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:36:34 wubo [~user@c-68-55-91-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:40 -!- wolfpython [~walter@58.212.239.188] has quit [Quit: ] 13:39:06 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:40:35 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.47.157] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:00 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.47.157] has joined #lisp 13:44:35 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:42 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.33] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:45:06 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.33] has joined #lisp 13:49:02 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.63.233] has joined #lisp 13:53:40 easyE` [H9DY6oVnf8@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 13:54:51 urandom_ [~user@p548A4AF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:02 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.65] has joined #lisp 13:55:18 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A324E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:56:00 -!- easyE [kjdmXjiVlS@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:58:58 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:06 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@193-64-22-111-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:59:30 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:00:35 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:06:30 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-137-45.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:55 urandom__ [~user@p548A47C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:03 fritz [~user@218.61.38.55] has joined #lisp 14:08:30 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.65] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:39 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:08:54 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.56] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 14:09:01 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A4AF8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:27 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:10:48 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:11:06 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:11:22 -!- fritz [~user@218.61.38.55] has left #lisp 14:11:47 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.56] has joined #lisp 14:12:09 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:18 urandom_ [~user@p548A28E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:14:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A47C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:17:44 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:18:39 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:18:50 please how can I match in ppcre something like "label : component1 2, component2 1, component3 1" ? 14:18:52 thanks 14:19:03 I used "([aA]-[zZ]+[0-9]*)*:" 14:19:30 until : but what about a, b, c, ... ? 14:19:38 Posterdati: that is entirely wrong. have you read a regular expression tutorial yet? 14:19:44 no 14:19:56 Posterdati: you should. or maybe you should choose another tool. 14:20:04 I'm reading the one you posted 14:20:14 I'm at the very beginning 14:20:18 i posted the reference page. 14:20:28 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 14:20:34 google "perlretut" 14:20:47 yes, and the perldoc one 14:21:28 -!- alunihil [~chatzilla@111-252-206-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.9.0.17/2009122204]] 14:21:40 Posterdati: http://weitz.de/regex-coach/ may help you t learn regular expressions. 14:21:55 Posterdati: if you use emacs you can try M-x regexp-builder 14:22:37 Posterdati: the good thing about regex-coach is that it uses cl-ppcre. emacs' regular expressions are slightly different. 14:23:37 ok 14:24:05 it is possible to break the scanned line to extract informations? 14:24:54 I saw that scan gives the position of matched regexp in the string 14:24:55 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869656.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 14:25:08 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.63.233] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:25:46 Posterdati: with groups 14:25:55 ok 14:26:15 H4ns: http://perldoc.perl.org/perlretut.html 14:26:21 H4ns: I'm reading 14:27:07 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A28E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:08 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:27:27 urandom__ [~user@p548A28E1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:16 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-166-114.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:39:29 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:30 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:40:37 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:41:08 _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 14:41:31 tyson1 [~Ian@bas1-toronto06-2925211534.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:43:36 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 14:44:20 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 14:45:49 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.33] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:47:44 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.210.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:48:11 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:58 Guthur [~user@host86-163-183-88.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:58 -!- tyson1 [~Ian@bas1-toronto06-2925211534.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 14:51:26 ThomasH [468228d8@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 14:51:41 Greetings lispers 14:52:53 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:53:10 -!- wubo [~user@c-68-55-91-8.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:54:02 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has joined #lisp 14:54:45 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869656.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:01 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:55:56 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has joined #lisp 14:57:11 Hey ThomasH! 14:57:25 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:58:44 tiglog [~topeak@114.112.45.167] has joined #lisp 14:58:50 francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has joined #lisp 14:59:04 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:59:43 -!- tiglog [~topeak@114.112.45.167] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 15:00:17 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has joined #lisp 15:01:05 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.16] has joined #lisp 15:01:56 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has joined #lisp 15:04:33 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:04:37 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.187.200] has joined #lisp 15:06:12 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:43 beefcube [~jpf@cpe-76-184-147-243.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:10:30 i'm using slime CL-USER under emacs and I am new to both emacs and lisp. For some reason I'm still getting a pop-up buffer stating "Execution of a form compiled with errors. (foo) " even after i've clearly fixed the error by changing the function back to its original, working syntax, (removing foo) 15:10:37 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:10:51 is there a way to correct this? 15:10:57 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:11:32 Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-48-250-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:12:22 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869656.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 15:16:08 disregard 15:16:22 beefcube: what was the issue? 15:16:42 i didn't understand that I needed to re-evaluate the defun 15:16:58 d'oh 15:17:07 before evaluating its caller 15:17:09 It hyphens. 15:19:36 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has left #lisp 15:19:59 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 15:23:01 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:23:46 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-043-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:14 I do that often. 15:26:12 -!- sellout-1 is now known as sellout 15:27:38 The most difficult error to track down is when you are developing methods for a generic function and neglect to undefine a :BEFORE or :AFTER method, for example, and become totally confused by the method behavior. 15:27:46 For me at least. 15:28:44 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:02 Or maybe your experimenting with the specialization, trying to move code to the least specialized method applicable, and neglect to undefine methods no longer required. 15:29:11 *you're*, ugh. 15:31:02 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 15:31:42 ehu_ [~erik@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:32:50 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:33:01 how do i simply execute multiple functions (neither have a side-effect on the other) inside 1 list? 15:33:08 luis: around? 15:34:11 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:34:14 beefcube: progn ? 15:34:54 -!- Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-48-250-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:35:17 ty 15:37:36 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:37:46 Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-48-250-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:39:21 erm, why is ansi-test not included in quicklisp ? 15:40:37 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 15:40:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.187.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:06 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:09 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:34 francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has joined #lisp 15:47:59 beefcube: (mapc #'(lambda (i) (fun1 i) (fun2 i) (fun3 i)) *my-one-true-list*) 15:48:01 -!- ehu_ [~erik@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:49:03 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.86] has joined #lisp 15:54:51 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:59:35 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:01:04 ugh, ok, how do i print variables within a function while evaluating the function? I've already tried: (format t "foo: ~a~%" b) but nothing appears in the emacs message buffer, just the normal return value of the function containing it 16:02:08 beefcube: That will print to the REPL buffer 16:03:49 gah, thanks 16:04:03 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:36 beefcube: This might be a good time to learn how to use the BREAK form and debugger. 16:06:33 beefcube: You can insert a break form and then use the debugger to interrogate the status of all of the variables. 16:06:48 alright 16:06:53 beefcube: you can also create your own stream to which you'd drop logging data, then read it back after execution 16:07:30 beefcube: C-u C-c C-k to compile and load a file with (declare (optimize (debug 3))). 16:07:39 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:08:08 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-043-248.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:08:35 -!- HG` [~HG@tmo-110-254.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:16 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:11:56 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.233.24] has joined #lisp 16:12:35 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:05 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has joined #lisp 16:13:35 peterhil [~peterhil@193-64-22-151-nat.elisa-mobile.fi] has joined #lisp 16:17:44 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c320a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:17 hi 16:18:40 lo 16:19:26 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:19:44 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:06 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:21:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:22:20 lisping homie from cologne 16:23:45 jo mario 16:26:07 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.86] has joined #lisp 16:27:47 a little lisp growing in the guts of an ERP system... ... sounds good, especially after reading about King's literary works on wikipedia all night 16:27:54 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:28:57 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:02 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:29:28 who would like a set of libraries implementing the whole horror of SOAP 1.2 and WS-crap? 16:30:01 is that a rhetorical question? 16:30:16 prxq: no 16:30:35 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 16:31:03 prxq: it's about what to use to drown consciousness after doing assignments and such, when you can't drink 16:31:32 and possibly actually doing something profitable in some way 16:31:53 p_l: you could help with the projects page of common-lisp.net :-) 16:32:18 hmm... good idea 16:32:26 god... SOAP? 16:32:27 p_l: occupy * 16:32:29 lol 16:32:38 SOAP wasn't even a good idea when it was still used. 16:33:13 *Fade* volunteers p_l to write a really kickass html5 environment for CL 16:33:33 Fade: actually kind-of in the works 16:33:34 tyson1 [~Ian@CPE00090fd3166a-CM00186852b2da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:33:52 well, I have a second or maybe fourth draft of plan for one 16:34:07 well, write the code! 16:34:21 Fade: it's low priority for now, unfortunately 16:34:22 it's going to be needed, basically tomorrow, or the next day. :) 16:34:31 p_l -> http://www.brepettis.com/blog/2009/3/3/the-cult-of-done-manifesto.html 16:34:40 3. There is no editing stage 16:34:53 2. Accept that everything is a draft. It helps get it done. 16:34:58 you just suggested writing a SOAP lib, and html5 is low priority? :) 16:35:05 Fade: If I was sure I could deliver, I'd simply ask for payment for working on that. But in current timeframe, I don't think I can :/ 16:35:25 ThomasH: it wasn't scrapped because of editing 16:35:48 Fade: and my JS-fu is unsure 16:36:00 woo. i accidentally upgraded my hunchentoot version and now my application doesn't work at all. 16:36:08 well, parenscript is a pretty big necessary block for any html5 system in CL. 16:36:12 luckily, it's already there. 16:36:33 p_l: Ok, I just like the "Cult of Done", it's something I read frequently and wanted to share it. 16:36:44 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:36:46 dsp_: you can roll back if you're in quicklisp, or change your acceptor code to use the new mechanism. 16:37:01 Fade: actually, my current plan doesn't actually have a need for Parenscript 16:37:03 i'd like to remain up to date of course, i'm just having a hard time locating the documentation 16:37:25 the website still says the current version is 1.1.1. i guess this is due to a change in maintainer 16:37:28 dsp_: it is included in the www/ and doc/ directories. 16:37:40 dsp_: edi promised to update the web site this weekend. 16:37:43 aha 16:37:45 thanks 16:37:54 it might be used to pregenerate the static JS, but I think I might keep it plain JS due to communication issues 16:38:06 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:40:40 -!- tyson1 [~Ian@CPE00090fd3166a-CM00186852b2da.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has left #lisp 16:40:42 Fade: html5 ui might get more traction depending on various events which are not necessarily in my control 16:41:26 explain? 16:41:39 H4ns: my quicklisp shows dists/quicklisp/software/hunchentoot-1.2.1/hunchentoot.asd, but the built in documentation on my loaded hunchentoot says "The current version is 1.2.0." -- not sure if that's my fault, whether it's loading an old version somehow or something 16:41:58 Fade: 1) possible use in coursework project (very doubtful - I'm the only lisper) 2) Startup 16:42:22 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.65.196] has joined #lisp 16:43:21 3) my current evil mastermind plan succeeding meaning stable income and possibly "free time" that can't fly away into "work time" 16:43:38 dsp_: that's my bad, sorry. the 1.2.0 documentation is the current one. 16:43:57 well, I think html5 could do for lisp what ajax and interactivity did for ruby via rails... s'all i'm saying. 16:44:35 parts of my professional interest will likely overlap with this projected work quite soon, so who knows, maybe I'll fund it either internally, or in the community. 16:44:35 Fade: trying to make everything into s-expressions is a sure way to keep the adaption rate low. 16:44:48 something rails-like is the last thing lisp needs 16:45:01 I wasn't suggesting something rails like. 16:45:16 I was using a 'floats all boats' comparison. 16:45:19 moah [~gnu@dslb-084-061-245-020.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:54 but what I really don't want in my lisp program is a bunch of javascript. 16:46:14 Fade: personally, I think autoloaders and generator scripts did more than ajax for rails/ruby :) 16:46:36 oh, and the router 16:46:48 making it easy to generate a loadable project is definitely a massive boon for a development environment. 16:48:08 H4ns: well, thanks for the help. it seems the only change i needed to make was to add "easy-" to my acceptor line, and everything worked as before. excellent 16:48:08 Fade: the /:controller/:action/:id default route and autoloaders that kept simple file structure were a big boon... not to mention first real experience with MVC for quite a lot of people 16:48:40 dsp_: good. sorry for the release glitches. i hope the other improvements help. 16:48:48 sure, but that's kind of ancillary to this discussion. 16:49:02 html5 will be important, and at some point lisp will need to handle it. 16:49:25 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:49:46 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 16:50:06 H4ns: we've been hitting 1.2 pretty hard in one of our internal projects; it's holding up very well. thanks for the solid release. 16:50:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.16] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:50:28 Fade: thanks for the feedback! 16:50:31 I have some ideas for a JS-based widget/display system, that later on doesn't need any manual injecting of JS from CL side 16:50:55 p_l: you should start stub projects for these ideas. 16:51:03 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:10 Fade: yeah 16:51:36 put your notes in a README.md and nail it up on github or whatever. 16:51:57 I thought qooxlisp was a good idea, and was sad that it's so bound up to allegro. 16:51:58 Fade: fighting illness and such made me rather cautious of signing off on anything 16:52:16 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 16:52:48 I burned a ton of good opportunities, and now try to just keep myself on track at uni and slowly rebuild 16:53:20 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 16:53:58 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.233.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:54:03 though I do need to start writing down all this 16:56:12 5. Banish procrastination. If you wait more than a week to get an idea done, abandon it. 16:56:39 ThomasH: you're starting to sound a little evangelical. :) 16:56:42 I'm stashing them up for further review 16:57:00 Fade: Amen! (It is a cult, by-the-way :-) 16:57:21 ThomasH: I've been working on an idea for maybe two or three years, and I've only written about a page of code! 16:57:24 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:37 right now, it's world of OpenCV, fugly Protege-OWL, and essays and craziness of ai-class 16:57:41 *ThomasH* hands Quadrescence some kool-aid. 16:57:51 I think if you only ever give yourself a week to accomplish an idea, you'll only accomplish small ideas. 16:57:59 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 16:58:04 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.202.199] has joined #lisp 16:58:18 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:58:28 Fade: Sure, I don't take the Cult of Done literally, I just use it to keep myself honest. 16:58:28 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Client Quit] 16:58:58 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 16:59:50 anyhow, i'm sorry your schedule is so driven by externalities, p_l. 17:00:08 -!- dru1d [~lukasz@82.177.172.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:00:18 remember to do a few things that are fun, or you'll burn out and that sucks massively. 17:00:29 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:00:30 Fade: being ill really screws your schedule (even if I don't show it on the outside) 17:00:42 Fade: I only do fun things! 17:00:49 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:00 when I started hacking in CL I was massively burned out after years in startup land. 17:01:09 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 17:01:13 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:01:15 had totally lost any curiosity or drive to play. 17:01:36 so I started building toys with CL, and it helped resuccitate me. :) 17:01:57 as for short ideas... a lot of my longer ideas is stuff for novels, mainly fantasy and science-fiction, small reusable bits, or the plots that come to me with dreams (which happens whenever the hypnotic aspect of my medicine kicks up) 17:02:04 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-206-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 17:08:35 Bfig [~BFigares@r186-48-232-32.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 17:09:04 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:10:08 Kron [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has joined #lisp 17:10:13 -!- Bfv9000 [~BFigares@r186-48-250-17.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:13 deech [~user@wufiguest-pat4.nts.wustl.edu] has joined #lisp 17:10:34 -!- Kron is now known as Guest80566 17:10:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:00 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:11:18 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:13:26 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:14:53 -!- deech [~user@wufiguest-pat4.nts.wustl.edu] has left #lisp 17:14:55 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:42 yay, the highlight of the day is over (a cheezy twitter competition, time to go back to something productive... or not) 17:16:13 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 17:17:34 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:21:23 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:24:58 tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.135] has joined #lisp 17:25:18 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.135] has left #lisp 17:26:17 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:46 deech [~user@wufiguest-pat4.nts.wustl.edu] has joined #lisp 17:31:33 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:32:06 Hi all, I'm trying a a version of SLIME from today with SBCL 1.0.51 and whenever I try to type into the REPL I get an emacs error "error in process filter: Wrong type argument: char-or-string-p, ("(+ &rest ===> args <===)" t)". The REPL slows down to a crawl but works. Any idea how I can fix this? 17:33:00 That's what happens when different versions of slime/swank are used on Emacs side and on Lisp side 17:34:30 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:34:38 akovalenko: I don't specify the SLIME version anywhere in my .emacs file. How does Emacs know what version I'm using? 17:35:24 deech: SLIME is not bundled in emacs, so you've installed it somehow. Do you recall where you put it and what version it was? 17:35:32 C-h v slime-path 17:36:31 akovalenko: I just started a new emacs session in another window. I think I hadn't done that for a year or so, so it might have been holding onto an old version of slime. 17:38:11 francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has joined #lisp 17:38:34 well, if you use quicklisp, I'd recommend to (ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper) and use quicklisp's slime 17:40:06 akovalenko: Yes, quicklisp (and QI) is the reason I'm looking into CL again. I'll certainly have to learn how to use it. 17:43:07 -!- deech [~user@wufiguest-pat4.nts.wustl.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:54 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has joined #lisp 17:45:54 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:31 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.117] has joined #lisp 17:49:43 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:50:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-173-164.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:50:56 are ansi-test tests themselves free of failures ? 17:51:31 easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has joined #lisp 17:52:08 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:54:51 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:55:47 am0c [~am0c@175.197.75.230] has joined #lisp 17:57:22 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:58:02 -!- easy-iPad [~easyipad@213.47.71.36] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:59:10 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:19 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:00:32 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:02:40 homie: of course :-) 18:03:21 homie: only problem is that some may not agree with their interpretation of the standard. 18:03:29 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:03:34 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 18:04:00 in other news: I'm going to power cycle common-lisp.net sometime tonight in order to give it more disk space. 18:04:33 ... btw, what is currently so broken with common-lisp.net? I haven't really tracked it in a long time... 18:05:25 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-139.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:49 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 18:06:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-139.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:08:36 situ [~quassel@223.191.94.202] has joined #lisp 18:09:08 p_l: no, it is not broken, it just could be better. 18:09:46 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:11:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:11:28 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:12:21 deech [~user@wufiguest-pat4.nts.wustl.edu] has joined #lisp 18:14:02 I was reading about McCLIM and I'm having trouble getting a handle on what makes it different. Is there a recent application that uses or is influenced by it? 18:16:53 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:18:19 -!- situ [~quassel@223.191.94.202] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:37 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:19:10 p_l: not much is broken; Raymond moved most of the old CMUCL snapshots to it, so we have 98% disk usage on the project folder now. 18:21:18 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:11 ahh 18:22:31 just kept hearing something about "let's find someone to fix $thing at c-l.net" lately 18:24:01 newbie question, are (1) and (1 . nil) the same? 18:24:22 beef, I believe so 18:25:31 hi, is there a "standard" reader macro for UUIDs? 18:25:41 puchacz: afaik no 18:26:27 *Ober* hunts for a repl that does not reply with java stacktraces, or not compile 18:26:44 thx 18:26:56 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:18 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-21-181.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:28:47 (equal '(1) '(1 . nil)) -> T, (eql '(1) '(1 . nil)) -> NIL 18:29:37 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-201.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:40 (eql '(1) '(1)) -> NIL 18:30:39 p_l: there are a few things that could be improved. Like, for example, the projects page. And the pages for each project, and so on. It's just that this implies some amount of work. 18:30:41 (eql '1 '1) -> T 18:30:42 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:00 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:11 heh 18:31:21 two lists which are constructed at runtime are ofc not eql, cause they have a different pointer ? 18:31:35 Ober: you should learn how to use them. (sldb . slime-inspector) is an awesome combo. 18:31:36 homie: right 18:31:43 ok 18:32:00 prxq: (un)fortunately my temporary heuristics of "do not take project unless it pays more than stacking shelves" is rather successful 18:32:29 is it a good idea to define reader macro for these? "#.(uuid:make-uuid-from-string \"A6568A34-5D3A-50E2-B256-4775CA2A6255\")") 18:33:00 puchacz: just remember to use named-readtables 18:33:21 doritos [~joshua@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:28 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 18:33:29 p_l: where can I find an example? 18:33:34 never did a reader macro 18:33:40 ok why would define-compiler-macro.8 in the ansi-test suite fail in sbcl ? 18:34:38 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 18:34:39 puchacz: CommonQT has one 18:34:58 and there are some examples on the net for writing a reader macro, can't quote them from memory 18:35:18 ok, thx 18:36:09 "On Lisp" has a section on reader macros, and I think named-readtables has a few examples 18:36:09 HG` [~HG@tmo-110-254.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 18:37:03 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:37:58 yup, looking 18:39:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:44:37 -!- deech [~user@wufiguest-pat4.nts.wustl.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:45:44 puchacz: cl-interpol uses reader macros too ... perhaps you might look at the code 18:47:30 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 18:49:31 yeah, I decided I prefer standard #.( after all 18:49:48 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:50:40 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:04 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:40 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:53:48 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:50 what is the name of the armed bear user startup file? 18:56:22 ~/.abclrc 18:56:43 thanks 19:00:23 -!- ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:00:48 oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 19:01:04 nerd [~vins@ppp-200-116.33-151.iol.it] has joined #lisp 19:01:23 music 19:01:24 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:24 macro names like #:G231 are errors in inline or notinline declarations ? 19:02:52 Macro names like that are indication that someone screwed up with the use of GENSYM. 19:03:36 *akovalenko* had to defun gensymmed names once. Not that it frequently needed.. 19:03:38 well, so the error is in the ansi-test test....bleh 19:03:43 ok time to get sbcl working for real. 19:03:48 this has to be easier than clojure 19:04:52 I usually download it and run it. 19:04:53 homie: Not necessarily. It's very occasionally useful to use gensymmed names for things, but it's rare, and is more often a sign of a screwed-up backquote with a gensym. 19:07:38 nyef: hi 19:07:43 yes ok, i just wonder which backquote now heh 19:08:20 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-178-32.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-178-32.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:08:20 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 19:09:19 i think i need a machine of some sort to whack me over the head every time I do f( argument ) and inorder operations :D 19:09:29 p_l: Hello. 19:10:02 beefcube: it's called a compilation error 19:10:22 beefcube: physical feedback was found to have unsatisfactory results 19:10:34 prxq: do you mind if I shut down cl-net for a minute? 19:11:55 ciao 19:12:01 :list 19:14:54 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-72.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:57 ok. we're going back up. 19:15:23 -!- oconnore [~Eric@n230-150.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:15:42 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.100.16] has joined #lisp 19:15:57 medusa 19:16:13 -!- nerd [~vins@ppp-200-116.33-151.iol.it] has left #lisp 19:16:33 hmpf. it's checking all volumes first. 19:16:46 good I already checked the biggest one. 19:18:03 Things we should take in context. 19:18:40 pnathan: ? 19:18:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.47.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:18:49 Never mind. Bad mind. 19:20:20 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has joined #lisp 19:20:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.204] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:20:21 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 19:21:36 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-206-3.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:21:45 chenbing` [~user@218.72.89.141] has joined #lisp 19:24:07 -!- chenbing [~user@218.72.89.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:25:03 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:25:06 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.197.75.230] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:27:23 -!- dmiles_afk is now known as dmiles 19:27:24 -!- dmiles is now known as dmiles_afk 19:29:25 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:43 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2679.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:33:51 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:18 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:23 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:49 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:49 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:49 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:36:03 That was... odd-seeming. 19:36:31 nyef: hmm? 19:36:49 Is there a specific hack in lisppaste to do that, did they just crash, or did someone (ehu?) close the bot connections manually? 19:37:22 furqan [~furqan@58-27-159-19.wateen.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:24 CL-USER> == happiness 19:37:32 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:59 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:04 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:36 nyef: I restarted common-lisp.net 19:38:41 clhs union 19:38:41 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_unionc.htm 19:38:51 and then I restarted the bots, because there was a huge backtrace in the screen terminal. 19:39:07 everything looks alright again. 19:39:17 Mmm... huge backtrace of cl-irc bits, maybe? 19:39:36 They're probably just going to die again. 19:39:39 backtrace of stack trace. 19:39:51 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:39:53 no idea if that's cl-irc bits. 19:40:07 Connecting now. 19:40:09 screen has some output logging feature, iirc. It makes sense to enable that for long-running bots. 19:40:10 it flashes by too quickly to actually see what's happening 19:40:54 Yeah, that's the bots choking alright. 19:41:01 ok. 19:41:04 any idea on what? 19:41:43 Something is broken about the tracking of people in a channel, whenever someone parts it dies a little death. 19:42:05 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:14 Did you update to a newer cl-irc version? 19:42:24 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:42:29 No, I didn't. 19:42:42 And last I checked, it seemed as though cl-irc was up-to-date. 19:42:54 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:43:00 I saw that behaviour in a bot of my own, but I thought it was a problem in the encoding of the quit strings. 19:43:01 what's a good place to learn lisp when you already know haskell? 19:43:07 Okay, that should clear the error storm. 19:43:42 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:43:44 Bfig: you may learn lisp the usual way -- forgetting haskell is not a must, though it might be helpful :) 19:43:51 Really? I was under the impression that the bot didn't realize that some nick was actually present in the channel. 19:44:06 akovalenko, what do you mean? 19:44:42 well, if that person isn't in the channel, it's removing it from the channel users list while not there. that's no problem. it's using REMOVE on it. 19:45:03 or at least, that's what I remember. 19:45:40 akovalenko, i figured quite a lot of concepts could be reused :p 19:46:48 The actual error message is a no-applicable-method for CL-IRC::REMOVE-USER-EVERYWHERE when called with ( NIL). 19:47:30 ah. 19:47:40 did you have the trace? 19:47:59 that's probably because someone leaves a channel before it ever received the NAMES list. 19:48:21 there are two solutions then. 19:48:35 1. force-create the user so that it no longer is NIL 19:49:02 2. create a special case for the (eql NIL) case which simply does nothing 19:49:11 vagrantprawn [~vagrantpr@rrcs-24-123-150-82.central.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:49:31 When the NAMES list arrives, will it still have the user on it? 19:50:04 I'm not sure. it might, yea. 19:50:12 benny [~benny@i577A73D2.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:16 That's... not good. 19:50:18 depends on the quality of the server, I guess. 19:50:33 Lovely. 19:50:39 yup :-) 19:50:49 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:58 Does the NAMES list arrive by default, or does the client have to query for it? 19:51:43 Hello everyone, I'm still somewhat new to programming and I was wondering if Lisp is still used for AI these days or if it is more so used just because of its intrinsic 'spiritual' value?? 19:53:11 Lisp is still used for AI on occasion. 19:53:13 Bfig see http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 19:53:18 Either way, I know it looks interesting to me. I started learning with C++ which kind of demotivated me from learning any programming ever again, but i was then lead in the direction of python, which is what i'm learning now. 19:53:28 vagrantprawn: lisp is being used everywhere where you find other programming languages. 19:53:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:29 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.100.16] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:57 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:54:45 thats good to know, programming has become a lot more fun since i started learning python and bash scripting and after looking into lisp I was hopeful that there would be more value to it than just its beauty. 19:55:19 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 19:55:20 vagrantprawn, if you want to just learn to program i'd suggest Java/C#, if you want to become a real programmer you're gonna need much more than x or y language 19:56:25 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869656.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:25 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d869656.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:02 Bfig, well I know, and like I said i'm still pretty new, i intend to learn as much as possible about many languages. Lisp has just been piquing my interest lately. For example i wasn't even aware of bash when i first started. 19:58:00 vagrantprawn, again i tell you, stop thinking in terms of x or y language, think in terms of algorithms 19:58:13 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:39 vagrantprawn: I think Bfig means you may want to read 'Structure and interpretation of computer programs' -- algorithm stuff 19:58:46 Bfig, what exactly is it that you do? I assure you i understand what it is you're talking about. 19:59:23 quite right, I understand what hes saying, but i'm not THAT new :) 19:59:27 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:59:35 ok. 20:00:53 nyef: did you fix anything? 20:01:39 No, I didn't. 20:01:52 so it's still getting those backtraces? 20:02:00 Just forced the bots offline and quit out of the debugger. 20:02:10 ah. ok. 20:02:27 well, I can check to see if I can fix cl-irc. 20:02:31 vagrantprawn: Lisp can be used for a slew of different tasks. 20:03:16 pnathan: what do you use it for? if you don't mind me asking. 20:03:31 vagrantprawn, i don't understad why you speak like yoda... or the third person when mentioning algorithms 20:04:13 I use it for my MS thesis code interpeting text and forming an analysis of a multiprocessor execution, I use it at work for real-time data graphing 20:04:36 Bfig: you can't program without being to think in terms of algorithms, and you also can't program if you've never sat down and learned something about a language either. 20:04:37 i also don't understand how you can speak about programming languages like that and understand what i'm talking about... i have no idea what you mean by new 20:05:24 yoda, lol 20:05:45 vagrantprawn: I have also developed a toy system for fitting a function to data, as well as a researchy crypto application which I hope to publish at some point in the future 20:07:04 vagrantprawn: Algorithm Design Manual is a pretty kewl book on algorithms, datastructures and their use 20:07:27 nyef: can I restart the bots? I've fixed that particular issue. 20:07:44 (that is, lisppaste as a whole) 20:08:32 p_1: thanks i'll definitely check that out. 20:09:07 ok. doing so. 20:09:08 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:09:25 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:02 -!- chenbing` [~user@218.72.89.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:10:34 Guthur` [~user@host86-163-183-88.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:50 pnathan: haha thats pretty cool, its motivating to hear about others' endeavors. 20:10:54 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:54 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:54 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:11:26 Bfig: I apologize it was not my intention to start an argument. 20:11:49 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 20:12:37 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-163-183-88.range86-163.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:46 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:12:55 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:02 hmm. we should probably recode lisppaste to use a database backed system. that way it takes shorter to reload the bot. 20:13:12 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:17 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:27 lisppaste: hi, missed you so much! 20:13:47 vagrantprawn, i wouldn't call it an argument, just keep your mind open 20:13:47 akovalenko: well, I'll have to force it offline again. 20:14:13 ehu: That's been on the wishlist for a while, actually. And a lot of the refactoring required to make it even plausible has already been done. 20:14:15 ehu: I'm still glad to see them breathing.., 20:14:43 vagrantprawn, i just saw a type of approach to programming that usually leads to a fixation in languages... you have to liberate your mind of that :) 20:15:02 REMOVE-USER called with arguments NIL 20:16:23 ehu: You're not doing a full bounce of the system just to test the behavior of cl-irc, are you? 20:16:35 (defmethod cl-irc:remove-user ((from null) user)) ;; ? 20:16:35 no. 20:16:36 -!- jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:43 Oh, good. 20:17:08 So, why are all three bots here instead of just one? 20:17:31 It's a bot takeover? 20:17:42 which one should be here? 20:17:44 they are sharing their forms and attaining collective intelligence? 20:17:51 and which ones shouldn't? 20:18:01 you'humans are really condescending and rude. 20:18:01 Any of them, but I'd probably pick minion or specbot to test with. 20:18:02 minion and lisppaste run in lisppaste, right? 20:18:13 right. 20:18:19 Sure, but you can have just one of them connected if you want. 20:18:26 nyef: what are the variable names of the minion, specbot and lisppaste bots 20:18:53 All listed in panacea.lisp, see screen 1, I usually have it open there. 20:19:17 -!- furqan [~furqan@58-27-159-19.wateen.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:19:24 thanks. 20:20:31 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:31 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:31 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:38 Just getting them to not choke on that error would be a win, really. We can worry about the other problems later. 20:20:52 agreed. 20:21:08 they did not choke on that error, but there seems to be another one. 20:21:13 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:21:53 Bfig: Thanks, I've just been trying to find some good stepping stones, it's difficult for me to learn so many things at one time. The only reason i've continued to try is because the more i do the easier it gets. 20:22:52 vagrantprawn, you might want to get a textbook about mathematically defined algorithms instead... 20:23:37 The one that the other guy mentioned 'the algorithm design manual' what do you think of that? 20:24:05 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:25 vagrantprawn, a vector is a vector on any language, a list is a list on any language, same with a variable, same with the concept of operation... 20:24:37 vagrantprawn: Do you have concrete tasks that you can use your programming to solve? I find that helps. You muddle through, solve something, realize it's not a good solution, and then pick up a reference on algorithms. 20:24:40 don't know about that book but i'd check it in any case 20:24:51 vagrantprawn: I suggest looking at Land of Lisp 20:25:07 do you have any math formal training? 20:25:08 nyef: cl-irc assumes both the channel and the user exist in the system if a part-message is received. 20:25:11 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:14 maybe the same for quit 20:25:30 probably. 20:25:33 timack [~timack@hlfx58-2a-216.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 20:25:36 I'm a biomedical engineer, plenty of math training :) 20:25:38 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:43 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 working on changing the part message assumption. 20:26:50 vagrantprawn: Yes, (1) Go through an introductory book, (2) apply lessons to concrete task, (3) review more detailed references (4) repeat from step 2. 20:26:58 The channel has to exist in the system, doesn't it? 20:27:21 Otherwise, the bot wouldn't be in the channel, and thus wouldn't get the part/quit message. 20:27:22 it gets created when receiving the join message. 20:27:41 hmm 'land of lisp' looks like something that would appeal to my learning style. Thats always how I learned math, not by going through and solving a bunch of slightly differing problems, but by solving just a handful of really intuitive ones. 20:27:43 Typical. 20:28:14 so, if the server sends stuff regarding a channel, such as a channel list 20:28:20 before the join message, 20:28:25 well, then you get the idea. 20:28:38 vagrantprawn, you can start with this i think: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Algorithms 20:28:40 that would actually explain it. 20:29:28 nyef: can we start by adding a bunch of restarts to "nudge" the code? 20:33:12 Bfig: bookmarked that and the data structures book attached to it. Thanks, out of curiosity, how did you get your start in all this? 20:34:26 -!- dmiles_afk is now known as dmiles 20:34:27 -!- dmiles is now known as dmiles_afk 20:35:58 vagrantprawn, i don't know hwo to program lisp, i'm just a passerby... but i want to change that :p 20:36:35 vagrantprawn, i am a CE student though and i know a lil' bit about programming 20:37:43 haha i'm sure you know all about MATlab then :) 20:37:50 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.47.157] has joined #lisp 20:40:35 Bfig, so anyway I appreciate all the advice everyone. You've been very helpful and I'm sure you'll see me again soon. 20:40:36 vagrantprawn, just a lil' bit... :) 20:41:25 Bfig, sorry i don't know why i put you're tag before that last one hahaha sorry. 20:41:28 np, just forget about particular languages, the key concepts are language agnostic 20:41:45 nyef: I guess the solution is to always create a channel if the server refers to one; same for users. 20:41:50 righto, cheers! 20:42:02 -!- vagrantprawn [~vagrantpr@rrcs-24-123-150-82.central.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 20:42:02 that way, you can't get missing type info on GF calls. 20:42:27 so, I'd need to have to replace all 'find-user' with 'find-or-make-user' and the same for channels. 20:42:29 Bfig: I don't think that is entirely true 20:42:47 prxq, about the language agnostic concepts? 20:42:50 ehu: If you say so. 20:42:55 yes. cf the supports/allows debate surrounding oop a decade or more back 20:43:01 ehu: "ensure-user", maybe? 20:43:22 prxq, what is that? 20:43:32 -!- H4ns [5b3d5d1a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.93.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 20:43:33 object oriented programming 20:43:41 one problem I see here would be that a malicious server would be able to create endless channels in our memory. 20:44:07 no, i mean what is that debate about? 20:44:12 in lisp something is either a list or an atom right? (i'm actually looking for the best way to check if something is a list or not) 20:44:21 ehu: The other option would be to preemptively create a channel object when we issue a join. 20:44:55 an abstract class is an abstract class in C++ just as in java, just as in c#, just as in 20:44:56 beefcube: No, NIL is both in Common Lisp. Try LISTP. 20:45:11 beefcube: Do you reference the HyperSpec 20:45:14 ? 20:45:26 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 20:45:37 ThomasH: no 20:45:37 Bfig: the key is "oop language" 20:45:54 beefcube: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_listp.htm 20:45:56 and you don't find many continuations in C++ code. 20:45:56 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has joined #lisp 20:46:10 beefcube: Become familiar with that document. 20:46:14 but that doesn't mean a continuation is a continuation in C++ or in haskell 20:46:26 *a continuation is a different thing in c++ and in haskell 20:47:01 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has quit [Client Quit] 20:47:18 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.4.64] has joined #lisp 20:47:49 a continuation is a language agnostic concept, same as algorithm, monad, class, annonymous function.... 20:47:49 Bfig: it is to those using that language. It has a different value, level of usefulness, etc. 20:48:08 Bfig: you can see it that way, of course. 20:49:09 of course it has varying degrees of usefulness, not denying that, but if you understand one in C++, you understand one in haskell, that is my point 20:49:34 H4ns [5b3d5d1a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.93.26] has joined #lisp 20:50:07 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:50:43 The fundamental abstract principles of monads, continuations, closures, etc, are language-agnostic. You could write continuations in assembly if you really felt like it. 20:52:07 that is my point :) 20:53:39 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:54:02 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:55:45 monads are language-agnostic, but there is no reciprocality here: not all languages are monad-agnostic (same for continuations, etc.) 20:56:44 that's why it is not a good approach to learn the concept attached to a language :) 20:57:13 (or any concept actually) 20:58:35 well, the concept has to be expressed in some way in order to learn it, and I fail to see what's bad when it's expressed in a formal language. We just have to remember that it doesn't make the concept language-specific, but then it's ok to learn it "attached", too. 20:59:01 there is a mathematical language for all this: CT, lambda calculus 20:59:51 One language to rule them all! (this high expectation from mathematical language is Haskel-people-specific, somehow..) 21:01:00 :)... i wouldn't say that, but a framework to reason about algorithms needs to be generic in that sense 21:01:19 algorithms are mathematical constructs, not language constructs (at least from the point of view i care about) 21:01:22 centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:24 akovalenko: less Haskell-specific, more "static reasoning gang" 21:01:34 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.116.190] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:06:38 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@71-34-172-67.desm.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:48 Bfig: I don't really have any objections, but I'd like to add that reasoning about algorithms is (sometimes) not the /only/ thing needed for programming, and sometimes it's not even the hardest thing. 21:09:41 *akovalenko* has to reason about third-party bugs. Is there a good mathematical framework for this?.. 21:10:05 -!- HG` [~HG@tmo-110-254.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12:05 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-166-81.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:13 akovalenko: there are ways to model restart behaviours in case of external problems 21:12:26 of course, compiler won't to that completely for you 21:13:02 X-Scale` [email@89.180.175.45] has joined #lisp 21:13:25 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:14:09 Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.181.76] has joined #lisp 21:17:47 akovalenko, you have a very good point but it is orthogonal to mine... first you have to get algorithms and memory management out of the way, then you can worry about real world concerns like that 21:17:49 I tried to quit specbot, but that doesn't seem to be an option... 21:18:05 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:05 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:05 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:20 ehu: Umm... What? (irc:quit specbot::*connection*) didn't work? 21:18:32 no. maybe it got overwritten. 21:18:34 Err... cl-irc:quit, that is. 21:18:39 Hunh. 21:18:40 pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has joined #lisp 21:18:54 changed the join method as you said. 21:21:21 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:48 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:53 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:35 gah. 21:22:40 still the same error 21:24:23 *akovalenko* hacked up a slime completion of his dream -- http://paste.lisp.org/+2P3D 21:25:04 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:25:13 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:08 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Client Quit] 21:26:17 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 21:29:02 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 21:29:31 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:30:01 ignas [~ignas@ctv-79-132-160-221.vinita.lt] has joined #lisp 21:30:24 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx58-2a-216.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:32:25 timack [~timack@hlfx50-2-142177100210.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has joined #lisp 21:32:36 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:32:54 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:33:30 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx50-2-142177100210.ppp-dynamic.dial.ns.bellaliant.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:35:31 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:35:31 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:35:32 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:04 lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:30 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:36 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:52 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:40:57 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:40:58 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 21:40:59 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 21:41:25 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:32 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 21:41:58 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 21:42:17 nyef: new error: we're getting KICK messages for channels not (yet?) in our channel list... 21:43:00 Can we not add the channel to our list before we send the JOIN to the server? 21:43:02 that's probably fixable. 21:43:16 I thought I'm doing that now. lemme check. 21:43:16 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:43:25 sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925081123.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:43:40 Zulu_Inuoe [~zulu12@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:42 If we're getting KICK messages for a channel that we haven't mentioned to the server, then the server really is at fault. 21:44:05 I can't really imagine that'd be te case. So, investigating. 21:46:29 dsrguru [~dsr@132.161.245.46] has joined #lisp 21:46:33 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 21:46:52 minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:59 what's the most idiomatic way to generate a list with elements that cycle like '(a b c a b c a b c) ? 21:48:32 #1# ? 21:48:39 #abc# ? 21:48:58 You want a finite number of copies of this sequence of elements? 21:49:02 dsrguru see topic if you meant circular list 21:49:27 and set *print-circle* to t 21:50:05 (loop repeat append ) ;; if you need finite list with repetitions 21:50:13 if it's not gonna end with abc, or end in ab or a or c or ac or bc..... 21:50:31 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.126] has joined #lisp 21:50:38 then you'll need something else i think.... 21:50:59 I'd consider passing an infinite list into subseq, except that subseq is specified to require a proper list. 21:51:15 (a few things to start and . #1=(a few things to run forever . #1#)) 21:51:37 hmm, I guess I'll go with akovalenko's suggestion of using loop 21:51:51 I'm really new to CL; what's the # notation? 21:52:03 (Using subseq would almost certainly -work- if you specified an end, but it's not guaranteed to so do.) 21:52:27 nyef: that "proper sequence" bits in CLHS are worrying here, even though I haven't seen an unexpected circularity detection anywhere.. 21:52:53 it's a macro char, on it's own it's used for different things like #' for funcitons #(a b c) vectors #1# cycles.... 21:53:01 akovalenko: It occurred to me that it could traverse the list twice, the first to find the identity of the last CONS... 21:53:44 i mean it has no specific meaning on it's own, just introduces a macro, and which macro is specified by the following char 21:53:48 homie: what are cycles? 21:53:49 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:04 as in the #_# notation 21:54:13 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:54:34 #1# means a cyclic list maybe containing 1 element or so.... 21:54:37 nyef: where is the list of lisppaste channels defined? 21:54:38 don't know 21:54:55 nyef: we're joining lisppaste-status and being kicked out immediately. 21:54:56 and if the cycle is a list or so depends on the used struct.... 21:55:06 it maybe a vector even maybe..... 21:55:09 nyef: maybe the server still sends the names reply 21:55:10 don't know again 21:55:12 ehu: ... I forget, but I know I've modified it a time or two. 21:55:17 I just typed #1# into the REPL and I was thrown into the debugger 21:55:23 heh 21:55:26 nyef: if it does, then that explains why our channel has disappeared. 21:55:38 nyef: it's been added, but deleted before processing the reply 21:55:52 it's the first cylce maybe, named as 1 (as the first) 21:55:58 ehu: I always would have assumed that we still got a names reply, just that it was late arriving. 21:56:13 dsrguru: read the manuals and the hyperspec 21:56:15 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:56:34 homie: I don't think you can search the hyperspec for special characters like octothorps 21:56:36 dsrguru: also worth asking: why do you want a circular list? 21:56:51 gigamonkey: I don't, I just want a list that has repeated elements 21:56:59 gigamonkey: I want to be able to do the following: 21:57:02 nyef: in that case, we should be just ignoring the reply, shouldn't we? 21:57:58 ... do we not use the person-in-channel information? 21:58:31 itR [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 21:58:59 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:59:10 gigamonkey: I have a macro that lets me generate HTML forms in a nicer and more expressive syntax than normal, but say I want to generate a bunch of text fields or areas with the same dimensions, differing only in name 21:59:26 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 21:59:35 nyef: use the person-in-channel info? sure. but for channels we have parted? 21:59:36 gigamonkey: I don't want to keep repeating all the elements in a call to my form operator 21:59:42 nyef: it won't be updated. 21:59:46 gigamonkey: when only every third argument differs 21:59:48 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.2.126] has joined #lisp 21:59:56 nyef: the other option is to leave the channel around, yet mark it as 'parted.' 21:59:59 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:00:02 Okay, yeah, if we've left the channel then fine. 22:00:05 gigamonkey: so I'm trying to find a concise way to do that 22:00:18 dsrguru are you using or rewriting cl-who ? 22:00:20 then the code will find the channel and the assumption 'channel is around' will work. 22:00:32 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 22:00:33 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@2.129.65.196] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:36 itR: no, I'm using a web framework that I'm writing 22:00:56 itR: it sits atop hunchentoot but doesn't use a pre-existing HTML library like who 22:01:12 dsrguru: try pasting your code I don't really understand what you're saying. 22:01:24 that way at least we have the sanity check that we were ever on the channel and are not just ignoring stuff from the server. 22:01:33 dsrguru: parallel assignment with psetf ? 22:01:42 cl-who just transforms sexp into html etc, which seems to be what you are doing 22:01:58 I don't get why you can't (loop for name in names do (generate-form-thingy name stuff that stays the same)) 22:02:07 gigamonkey: (form "first label" (area 4 80) (br) "second label" (area 4 80) (br) "third label" (area 4 80) (br) "fourth label" (area 4 80) (br)) 22:02:17 gigamonkey: something like that 22:02:44 the first argument and every third argument thereafter differs 22:02:59 but I don't want to have to have code for all the repeating arguments 22:03:00 (cl-who:with-html-output (*standard-output*) (:body (:p "Hello"))) =>

Hello

22:03:40 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:03:44 I guess I could generate three and keep looping and append the results, but I was wondering if there was an idiomatic way to do that in CL 22:04:13 dsrguru: Paste an example, your question is not clear. 22:05:29 Keep looping and append results? (loop  collect (form) ) ??? 22:05:34 itR: my framework can't use cl-who because a lot of the HTML is autogenerated depending on the context that different form elements are in 22:06:04 is there somethin like a template in lisp ? 22:06:05 dsrguru you can loop and generate html inside a cl-who block 22:06:08 maybe he can use that ? 22:06:08 pnathan: yeah it doesn't look like there's a more natural way 22:06:18 inside a with-html-output block* 22:07:23 itR: I just was wondering about the syntax of repeating most arguments to functions/operators when most don't vary 22:07:25 json-template, html-template, closure-template, cl-ppcre-template.... 22:07:40 itR: I'm not running into trouble with the implementation 22:07:43 maybe have a look at some of these..... 22:07:52 When someone says 'repeat arguments', I think 'abstract', ie, macros, or a wrapper function 22:08:02 homie: nah, I'm creating a much higher level framework 22:08:16 homie: the aim is to be more expressive than arc and web4r 22:08:22 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 22:08:34 but allow for more direct manipulation of the markup in circumstances where needed 22:09:22 so macros then ? 22:09:28 yes 22:09:32 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111104165243]] 22:09:58 so wherever my framework expects to see a full web page 22:10:02 you could pass it just a body 22:10:09 and it'll use sensible defaults for the head 22:10:11 marsell [~marsell@120.18.163.171] has joined #lisp 22:10:14 wherever it expects a form 22:10:26 *wherever it expects a body 22:10:33 you can pass it sub-elements like forms or links 22:10:36 and those will be the whole body 22:10:46 wherever it expects a form 22:10:52 you could pass just a single form element 22:10:59 and a submit button will automatically be added 22:11:01 etc 22:11:06 inR pasted "Untitled" at http://paste.lisp.org/display/125834 22:11:15 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:29 dsrguru sorry if I'm misunderstanding but isn't this what you wanted? 22:11:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125834 22:11:49 ah pastebot works 22:12:04 itR: no, my question has nothing to do with html generation 22:12:14 ok 22:12:23 itR: I just wanted to know how to call a function or macro with arguments that cycle, except with one varying 22:12:27 but I can just use loop and append 22:12:27 -!- mtd__ [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:12:30 dsrguru: maybe go oop ? 22:12:35 I just wanted to make sure there was no operator that did that automatically 22:12:47 dsrguru: or combine oop even with macros ? 22:12:50 yes,this sounds like a problem that maps onto an object driven solution 22:12:58 homie: I'm not currently using clos, but that's besides the point 22:13:05 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:05 I'm not running into problems with my implementation 22:13:42 I was just wondering if there was a lisp operator that already did what I'm trying to do since it seemed like a common task 22:13:48 a generalization of what I'm trying to do would be 22:13:54 if you had n lists of equal length 22:14:02 to generate a new list that weaves them together 22:14:43 can you give an example of such a list 22:14:52 such that (foo (make-list 5 :initial-element 'a) (make-list 5 :initial-element 'b) (make-list 5 :initial-element 'c)) 22:14:57 would produce: 22:15:06 (zip '(1 2 3) '(5 6 7)) => '(1 5 2 6 3 7) is a classic function 22:15:08 '(a b c a b c a b c a b c a b c) 22:15:28 ah 22:15:35 perfect that's exactly what I'm looking for 22:15:42 does it have arbitrary arity? 22:15:53 It can. 22:15:53 you want order ? 22:15:55 It could, I suppose. 22:16:03 I usually roll my own. 22:16:10 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.202.199] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 22:16:17 k 22:16:25 The obvious first step is one of the mapping functions with #'LIST, then applying #'CONCATENATE... 22:16:35 right 22:16:41 (defun zip (&rest things) (mapcan #'identity (apply #'mapcar #'list things))) 22:16:42 I was just wondering if such a function existed 22:16:55 dsrguru there's no zip function in standard lib, maybe it's part of some cl library 22:17:12 all right I'll just write one like the above 22:17:17 there are a ton of zip implementations 22:17:30 so zip is the name for what I'm trying to do 22:17:34 all right thanks 22:18:40 The obvious library to check first is alexandria. 22:18:50 lol 22:18:58 alexandria's manual is incomplete, there are many functions in the library that aren't in the manual 22:19:09 see the export list in the code 22:19:22 kk 22:19:26 (I was bitten by that, that's why I mention it) 22:19:33 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:19:35 Given what alexandria is, that's a pretty pathetic situation with the documentation 22:19:43 well I don't need to use a library for something as simple as this 22:19:55 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:56 but that's good to know that there are attempts at standardization outside of the original CL spec 22:20:41 One of these days I kind of plan on putting together a patch for the Alexandria docs to fill out the barebones info so the next poor shmuck doesn't get hit. 22:21:49 btw does zip normally produce a list of lists like '((a b c) (a b c) ...) in the above example 22:21:52 or does it flatten the list 22:22:09 by what we saw it flattens.... 22:22:14 I want my naming to be consistent with what ppl expect zip to do 22:22:42 homie: well I'm asking is what we saw zip or (append (zip ...)) 22:22:54 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:00 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:23:05 just so I can be consistent with what ppl would expect a function named zip to do 22:23:09 zip takes a set of lists and returns a list 22:23:12 I see that the python spec 22:23:16 has zip produce a list of tuples 22:23:47 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:24:48 Well, okay, I guess shouldn't be so assertive, Haskell produces a list of tuples as well. 22:25:09 i don't know how it happens but my mouse sometimes jumps wildy around, and sometimes when i'm on mcclim, those wild jumps trigger a signal or so and i land in the debugger.... 22:25:49 we have no tuples here, but if we take lists as tuples, (mapcar #'list ) is enough 22:27:09 akovalenko: I know, I'm just trying to figure out which functionality should be named zip--whatever, I'll just use your original suggestion since I don't need a list of lists 22:27:18 -!- Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@46.105.251.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:27:23 and the flattening thing above could be renamed transpose-lol 22:27:24 all right thanks all 22:27:32 yes 22:27:41 ... would that be oll or llo? 22:28:30 (And, at the same time, I'm reminded of "a tale of two once-onlies". Or was it "onlys"?) 22:28:52 Brendan_T [~Brendan_T@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 22:28:55 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:19 lol 22:29:33 nyef: human languages should have multiple-escaping. Two |once-only|s. 22:30:00 Something like that. 22:30:23 Anyway, the point was that SBCL has an implementation of ONCE-ONLY that has semantics rather different from the norm. 22:31:13 It tends to confuse people when first they see it if they have prior experience using the normal semantic. 22:31:38 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:31:47 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:31:48 nyef: just out of curiosity, what country are you from? 22:32:04 Originally, the UK, but I live in the US. 22:32:21 ah 22:33:21 I was trying to place the "when first they see" construction 22:33:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-139.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:34:09 I'd say "when they see it first", but I'm as far from native-speakerness as it gets :) 22:34:23 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-147-139.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:34:52 akovalenko: I'd probably say "when they first see it" but yours would sound natural in my idiolect of American English 22:36:25 It's probably a fairly idiosyncratic phrasing, but I'm under the impression that it once was more widespread. 22:36:43 You learn ONCE-ONLY semantics when you first see it, and then you reuse that knowledge. 22:38:14 nyef: that might be the case, but it sounded funny when first I saw it XD 22:39:14 dsrguru: You hear things when you see them? 22:39:25 nyef: I looked at macroexpansion of sb-int:once-only, and it seems to be a special case of alexandria's once-only, though not the /most common/ case.. 22:39:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:39:44 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 22:39:55 akovalenko: Most once-only implementations don't support arbitrary bindings with LET*-like semantics. 22:39:55 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 22:40:08 They just take a list of variable names. 22:41:21 nyef: I use "sound" + adj to refer to how a unit of speech is interpreted by my brain, regardless of whether I physically hear it or read it 22:41:32 but sorry to get off topic 22:42:04 dsrguru: Yeah, I just find it somewhat amusing when someone says/writes something synaesthetic like that. 22:42:19 I know what you mean 22:43:02 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:43:21 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:43:21 -!- herbieB_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:43:41 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:43:41 herbieB_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:53 Alternately, "when I see someone say something like that". (-: 22:45:35 I gave up trying to avoid synaesthetic verbs for read/hear & write/say on the Net long ago.. 22:46:42 instead, I use these pairs according to the spirit of an activity I'm describing: we're talking here, and I say and hear things, but when I read PCL, I /read/ things.. 22:48:10 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:48:55 haha nice quit message 22:49:28 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:32 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:50:52 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:51:52 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:51:52 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:31 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:18 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-141-54.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:55:22 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:55:23 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-143.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:56:04 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.250.245] has joined #lisp 22:56:50 -!- dsrguru [~dsr@132.161.245.46] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:56:52 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:57 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.62] has joined #lisp 22:58:02 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:58:16 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:59:52 sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 23:00:42 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 23:01:01 zmv [~zmv@c9533879.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:01:10 sacho [~sacho@95-42-84-232.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 23:01:46 -!- Zulu_Inuoe [~zulu12@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:02:25 cow-orker [~foobar@pogostick.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:23 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-253-42.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:07:00 For a function that returns boolean, should I use '?' in the name or 'p'? For example 'ready?' or 'readyp' ? 23:07:25 p 23:08:02 Thanks homie. 23:08:05 -!- pnathan [~Adium@64.126.142.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:07 is it possible to define call/cc in common-lisp ? 23:08:15 or something similar ? 23:08:27 homie: Not without a codewalker, apparently. 23:08:33 oh ok 23:08:50 macrolet ? 23:09:14 What about macrolet? 23:09:28 it's a codewalker ..... 23:09:32 homie: there are many implementations, and one or two of them are quicklispable.. 23:09:39 Bahman: use whichever you like; it's a matter of style. 23:09:58 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-253-42.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 23:10:04 homie: macrolet is not a codewalker. 23:10:51 Ralith: '?' seems more descriptive to me. I just want to avoid breaking the convention like using camel-case in variable names. 23:11:27 Ralith: well, one doesn't ask style questions after one has made up his mind on something. And to a person who hasn't decided yet, I'd recommend p over ? in common lisp. 23:11:36 Bahman: I like to use ?, though it does differ from the CL spec's habitsbut the CL spec is hardly a paragon of style. 23:12:48 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.54.87] has joined #lisp 23:12:48 akovalenko: sure, but it shouldn't be suggested that ? is a Bad Thing a la camelscae. 23:13:00 camelcase* 23:14:05 I think that being different for no good reason is a (moderately) bad thing.. 23:14:31 not even close to camelCase in awfullness, though. 23:14:53 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c320a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:04 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:04 I find it more readable, and that strikes me as enough reason. 23:15:23 Ralith: +1 23:15:29 One other question: Is it possible to change the encoding of Slime REPL to UTF-8? 23:16:26 M-x customize-variable slime-net-coding-system 23:17:12 Thanks akovalenko. 23:17:57 more readable is relative, ? happens to be used in regexes too..... 23:18:08 and that's even more confusing then.... 23:18:16 fortunately, in Common Lisp regular expressions cannot be easily confused for symbols. 23:19:08 i find 1 2 3 more readable then (list 1 2 3) too, but see i wouldn't either use common-lisp or wouldn't try to change a 50 or more year old specs, without good reason.... 23:19:42 and not obeying it maybe or maybe not successfull for what you want to do..... 23:21:20 nyef: the best solution I can come up with is to let the channel 'live' for some time (20 seconds) after we parted it (or were kicked). That way, it'll be found when the part and other messages are out of sync. 23:22:18 ehu: We can't just ignore such messages? Or is that too invasive at this time? 23:22:30 hmm. I have the solution: in case of being kicked, I'll mark the channel as such. it'll be the only case where the software doesn't 'know' in advance that the channel has been removed. 23:22:51 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:10 in case of part, the action is initiated by the client, which (or should) accomodate 23:23:19 the kick is the issue. 23:23:38 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:23:58 -!- senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:24:52 protip, don't say defmacro instead of deffun, unless you know, you actually wanted a macro. 23:24:56 italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-202-204.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:28 derekv: Is this related to the "we have inline declarations for a reason, use them!" tip? 23:26:41 if i have a client with socket connection that gets irregular updates, is reading from the stream just put in a loop in a thread? or is there some async run a function on msg recieved available? 23:27:06 nyef, I have no idea. I felt smarter the first time I programmed then I feel right now. 23:28:30 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@pD95545F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:28:50 italic: depends on your implementation. 23:29:45 derekv: Experience seems to develop that way, somehow. The more you know, the more you know you don't know. 23:31:05 ehu: right now im just trying the read in loop, since i've not seen any lib for async client-side socket read 23:31:18 italic: generally this is best done using select-style multiplexing, but you'll need a lib if you want to do so portably. 23:31:35 I like iolib, though it's sparsely documented and is only just now getting a Windows port. 23:32:06 Suppose I have a generic function FOO that takes two arguments. What's a concise way to say, an object that can be passed as the first argument to FOO, i.e. one for which there is a method whose specialization includes that class of object (or the object itself with an EQL specializer. 23:32:43 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 23:33:29 gigamonkey: I think you have to start by naming the parameter. 23:33:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:33:52 Ralith: i'm using iolib now, cross-platform doesnt matter for me. i read through the tutorial and i saw an async server, i'm just trying to figure out the async client :/ 23:33:59 italic: iomux:event-base supplies the functionality you want 23:34:13 italic: what are the tasks your client needs to accomplish simultaneous to waiting for socket data? 23:34:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:35:11 Ralith: data analysis, with periodic updates from the server 23:35:35 its especially bad right now. I'm supposed to learn TDD, but i'm not getting it. At all. I don't even know what I don't get. All I know is that whenever I try to do it, it does not help me be productive, so I don't get it =[ 23:35:41 gigamonkey: After that, you should be able to invoke the notion of an applicable method, or parameter specialization, or whatever, fairly easily. 23:35:48 italic: can you be more specific and low-level? If all you need to do is analyze the data the server provides, you don't need multiplexing or asynchronicity at all... 23:36:23 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:36:25 derekv: I spent about two weeks like that with "dependency injection" before it all came together. 23:37:13 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.117] has joined #lisp 23:37:27 Ralith: so the client(s) will be processing info in a database--reading, writing, etc.--they will get commands from a server via a socket 23:37:47 derekv: As far as TDD goes, I'm not sure I can help you. I have some idea as to what it is, and how it works, but I'm spectacularly bad at practicing it. 23:38:11 italic: your client is continuously interacting with the database at all times? Why is that? 23:39:02 Ralith: not continuously, but sporadically. and may be subject to job changes 23:39:30 italic: what causes your client to begin a unit of database interaction, and how long does it last? 23:39:43 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:41:38 Ralith: not terribly long now, but the amount of data is low and will grow. would it be easier to just work on the data, then phone home and get new commands? 23:42:01 Well your supposed to write unit tests for everything, at the lowest level, but thats not where my bugs come from. they come from the iteraction between modules, or even higher up. where unit tests won't catch them. 23:42:07 italic: easier, yes, but slower and unnecessary. What causes your client to begin a unit of database interaction? 23:42:10 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:29 but a lot of people are really into this, smart people, so I'm doing it wrong. 23:43:01 derekv: the unit testing I've seen done has been at the high level. 23:43:09 Ralith: well the plan is to use a pubsub channel via redis which will broadcast a message to available clients 23:43:44 italic: so the client begins a unit of database interaction in response to a message from the server? 23:43:53 Ralith: yes 23:44:28 italic: are the database interactino units mutually exclusive? 23:44:32 interaction* 23:45:43 derekv: So, write your integration tests first, and don't worry about unit tests. 23:46:38 Ralith: hmm. there will be an order, then a client will signal a message saying it is working on it so 2 clients wont be on the same one 23:47:10 italic: that's a race condition. 23:47:56 italic: and I was asking about the units a single client executes. In other words, does it make sense for one client to be performing multiple units of database interaction simultaneously? 23:47:59 derekv: you may find these interesting: http://www.gigamonkeys.com/misc/fischer-random-chess.txt and http://www.gigamonkeys.com/misc/impossible-book-tdd.txt 23:48:18 Note that those were from before I knew much Lisp. 23:48:19 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.163.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:50:16 gigamonkey, thanks checking it out now 23:50:19 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:50:52 Ralith: no, one client doesn not need to be working on simultaneous tasks 23:50:55 http://www.lisphacker.com/codex/004-parsing-smalltalk.txt might be interesting, as well. 23:51:34 italic: then you have no need for multiplexing or asynchronicity: (loop for message = (get-message server) do (process-message message)) 23:51:37 I probably need to work with a framework that shows test coverage as well. To see if I'm doing to much or too little (maybe both). 23:51:38 where get-message blocks. 23:52:06 italic: you need to fix your race condition, too, but I can't help you with that. 23:52:28 Ralith: thanks. what you say makes sense 23:52:30 derekv: Have a look at SB-COVER if you use SBCL. 23:52:41 (Never used it, myself.) 23:53:20 nyef, cool 23:53:20 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Quit: Common Lisp IRC library - http://common-lisp.net/project/cl-irc] 23:53:39 Ralith: i initially concieved these as being more autonomous then they actually are it seems 23:53:58 italic: multiplexing is for when you need to do two or more I/O bound operations simultaneously, and respond to their completion immediately. 23:54:47 italic: if and only if your response to completion is likely to be CPU-bound for a significant period of time, you should consider a separate thread. 23:55:12 where 'significant' means 'is likely to interfere with the timely processing of another I/O state change' 23:55:21 specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:06 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.54.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:56:17 ppc eieio 23:56:17 Enforce In-Order Execution of I/O: http://www.nersc.gov/vendor_docs/ibm/asm/eieio.htm#idx390 23:56:21 Cool. 23:57:05 Ralith: thanks for your help 23:57:27 -!- lisppaste [~lisppaste@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:27 -!- specbot [~specbot@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:27 -!- minion [~minion@tiger.common-lisp.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:59 np 23:58:30 I had a lot of fun discovering I/O multiplexing, and am happy to share that 23:59:11 the "one thread per socket" model that tends to get naively implemented in its absence always really bothers me.