00:01:01 -!- finnrobi [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:01:07 finnrobi [~robb@xvm-20-190.ghst.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:26 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade5641c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 00:04:09 yesterday I saw a Richard Kreuter is supposed to speak at the MongoDB conference in a few weeks 00:04:17 is that "our" kreuter? (-: 00:04:36 because if so, awesome 00:06:27 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.181.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:06:36 psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has joined #lisp 00:07:32 waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has joined #lisp 00:08:08 nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.181.102] has joined #lisp 00:08:23 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 00:12:02 xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:33 *p_l* recently read an awesome story about MongoDB... but not so awesome for MongoDB :> 00:12:47 http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=FD3xe6Jt 00:15:03 yeah, that 00:17:43 pnq [~nick@ACA2C71B.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:18:39 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:03 antifuchs: that could have been applied almost word-for-word on Mysql too. 00:19:31 it got debunked a bit by 10gen's cto in the hackernews discussion 00:20:40 iwillig [~ivan@173.3.193.160] has joined #lisp 00:21:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.160] has joined #lisp 00:21:40 antifuchs: link? I'm not a regular on HN :) 00:22:57 oh, and further: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3205489 00:23:05 that's the poster. nice one. 00:23:56 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:24:00 anyway, here's the debunking thing: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3202959 00:25:05 loke: Last time I used MySQL was in high school. When badly designed handling of character encoding bites you during high-profile, utterly crazy seat-of-pants developement on live installation, you tend to get angry :D 00:25:41 antifuchs: nice 00:25:49 good to find that 00:26:00 (personally I was rather disinterested in Mongo anyway) 00:28:17 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 00:32:11 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has joined #lisp 00:32:28 haha mysql 00:34:55 mason [~user@wsip-98-189-9-189.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:35:51 p_l: what do you use? i'm curious because i'm starting a new project and the initial codebase uses mongo (and cl-mongo) - is there something else i should take a look at? 00:36:28 wccoder: I'm not a good person to answer that, I think, because so far I didn't have anything that required a k/v or document store 00:36:46 a new project I'm working on *might* use AllegroGraph 00:37:31 from "competition" there's definitely CouchDB, but I haven't done any comparison testing 00:37:34 p_l: ah ok. someone here recommended i check out "rucksack" 00:38:08 wccoder: rucksack is pretty great, but it doesn't do distributed/sharded, unless you write that by yourself 00:38:55 drewc used it in anger afaik, for various commercial projects, and said something about successfully keeping >100GB in it 00:39:45 p_l: yeah i don't think i'll need sharding. i just really liked the idea of not having to use a relational DB and SQL to store stuff persistently and reliably 00:40:02 thanks for posting the link (the mongo one) :) 00:40:44 from a recent conversation, dlowe and pinterface seem to have used rucksack 00:40:47 with storing >100G, you were referring to rucksack, right? 00:41:12 iirc, it was harag who suggested it initially 00:41:44 wccoder: yes 00:42:32 wccoder: if all you want is a database, with indexing (but so far not 2D/3D indexes), that is nicely embedded into your code, rucksack is great 00:42:50 any HP calculator users here? I'm looking for some decent resources on learning RPL 00:42:52 mooglenorph [~marco@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has joined #lisp 00:43:02 I suppose I could also ask in the Forth channel 00:43:03 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:43:07 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:27 ... why not in a dedicated channel? I'm pretty sure there's one 00:43:38 p_l: really? 00:43:40 Nisstyre: or the newsgroup FAQ. 00:45:53 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:46:37 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:47:38 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 00:48:20 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 00:49:52 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.149.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:51:38 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 00:52:12 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.31] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:58:43 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.80.31] has joined #lisp 00:59:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 01:00:04 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 01:00:50 -!- koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:00:56 koollman [samson_t@sp1.kooll.info] has joined #lisp 01:00:59 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:01:53 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.54.87] has joined #lisp 01:02:20 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:02:52 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.146.18.206] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:03:06 chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 01:03:23 PiRSquared17 [~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17] has joined #lisp 01:03:33 -!- PiRSquared17 [~PiRSquare@wikipedia/PiRSquared17] has left #lisp 01:05:18 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:06:13 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:08:06 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:12 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:14 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:11:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:15:32 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:09 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has joined #lisp 01:16:09 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has quit [Changing host] 01:16:09 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 01:20:25 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 01:22:09 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:26:38 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:26:59 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:21 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 01:30:07 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:34:12 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 01:34:29 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:37:54 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:38:37 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 01:41:02 WRZ [~s9827148@vlsi06.ice.cycu.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 01:43:00 hugod [~hugod@rrcs-98-101-136-17.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:43:10 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:43:34 qeed [~qeed@adsl-98-85-58-225.mco.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:23 if i want to write mutually recursive functions, how do i achieve forward declaration, since sbcl complains about the function not being defined yet, just do (defun a ()) and then later (defun a () code)? 01:46:42 qeed: just ignore style-warning. (defun a ()) and (defun a () code) are much worse, especially when they're in the same file. 01:47:04 ok thanks 01:50:40 (declare (ftype (function (integer list) t) ith)) and also see declaim for the top-level form. 01:50:58 was that for me? 01:51:14 Sure. 01:58:31 -!- djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:01:10 qeed: there's no style warning if you compile the whole file at once. 02:01:35 how does one do that, ive been using (load "file") 02:01:57 djanatyn [~djanatyn@mail.digitalkingdom.org] has joined #lisp 02:03:23 i fixed it with declaim 02:03:42 loz [~user@87.226.216.218] has joined #lisp 02:04:49 hi 02:05:25 i cant run weblocks-demo, error message "The function WEBLOCKS::LOG-MESSAGE is undefined." =\ 02:05:55 weblocks and demo were installed from quicklisp 02:07:25 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 02:07:40 *Xach* scratches chin 02:08:16 oh, sorry, tried localhost:8080, instead of localhost:8080/weblocks-demo %) 02:09:38 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.239.84] has joined #lisp 02:10:45 loz: as far as i know, not a lot of weblockers here. the mailing list is active though. 02:11:28 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-206-139.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:39 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-44-148.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:29 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-120-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:12:56 eliteavncz [~eliteavnc@102.sub-97-198-77.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:37 -!- eliteavncz [~eliteavnc@102.sub-97-198-77.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:14:55 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-44-148.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:36 *Xach* builds nikodemusbcl 02:19:52 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:20:16 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:20:39 *akovalenko* builds nikodemusbcl-winXX-threaded :) 02:23:01 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:24:38 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:24:40 Xach: ok) 02:26:04 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 02:26:52 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:27:09 kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.254] has joined #lisp 02:27:09 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.160.254] has quit [Changing host] 02:27:09 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:28:00 Hi, the line (split-sequence:split-sequence \#Space "meow meow") gives me the error The variable |#SPACE| is unbound. 02:28:11 #\Space is no \#Space 02:28:11 mooglenorph: the syntax is #\Space 02:28:41 ugh, sorry. thanks 02:32:55 -!- Yuuhi```` [benni@84.131.180.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:35:43 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:35:54 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has joined #lisp 02:35:54 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has quit [Changing host] 02:35:54 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 02:44:33 tmh [4b1be7fa@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 02:44:42 Greetings lispers. 02:44:55 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:45:18 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:46:17 -!- orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 02:46:50 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 02:51:57 Hi. 02:52:37 -!- iwillig [~ivan@173.3.193.160] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:55:06 pnathan1 [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 02:55:12 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:57:11 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:58:54 gko [~gko@42-70-252-86.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:30 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:01:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:01:57 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:06:38 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:07:12 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zrcxgycttciruqtl] has joined #lisp 03:14:58 -!- nurv101 [~nurv@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:16:21 How do I use buildapp with quicklisp? I've used quicklisp to install a couple libraries, and I need an executable lisp image with those rolled in, I assume. 03:17:38 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:01 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:18:40 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:20:12 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 03:24:13 -!- GeneralMaximus [~general@178.63.185.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:24:25 scombinator [~user@cs-gw-private.otago.ac.nz] has joined #lisp 03:24:56 hmm, ok, I think I point --asdf-path at ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software 03:25:10 GeneralMaximus [~general@178.63.185.174] has joined #lisp 03:30:05 drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:30:59 drewc: hi 03:31:35 hey p_l! 03:32:28 drwho_ [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:32:51 *drewc* decided to join #lisp again :) 03:33:22 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.181.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:34:50 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:35:08 In clisp, how do I avoid the warning "WARNING: locale: no encoding 646, using ISO-8859-1 03:35:10 ? 03:35:32 I tried to set the locale, but can't find exactly "ISO-8859-1". 03:35:36 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 03:45:00 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:45:52 gko: what exactly are you doing? ISO-8859-1 only has 256 characters if I reember correctly 03:46:59 Is there a better way to supply 'string to concatenate in this call than :(reduce (lambda(x y)(concatenate 'string x y)) (to-dotfile "line.str")) 03:47:57 (defun strcat (&rest strings) (reduce #'(lambda (x y) (concatenate 'string x y)) strings :initial-value "") 03:48:02 (i also remember it as Latin-1, and I haven't used clisp in a while so I may be a little bit wrong about its errors) 03:48:20 (reduce #'strcat (to-dotfile ..)) 03:48:40 Quadrescence: that is nicer, thanks. 03:48:54 (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) (mapc #'write-string )) 03:49:41 akovalenko: what a terrible solution, you should be ashamed of yourself!!! 03:51:19 -!- tehf [~tehf@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: y'all be trippin'] 03:54:11 Quadrescence: concatenate is n-ary already 03:56:32 Ralith: as all functions, it's not n-ary, it's n-to-call-arguments-limit-ary. 03:57:31 And akovalenko's solution is probably the best, since we can count on implementations to be O(n), while with reduce+concatenate, we cannot expect a compiler sufficiently smart to make it better than O(n^2). 03:57:46 (format nil "~{~a~}" ) ;; no type check and slower 03:58:16 and *print-pretty*. 03:58:57 heh. I figured out something the new Stichtig CL foundation could do - handle "bounties" for various developements in CL - think similar to Nikodemus' crowdfunding, except with extra layer of security to make it easier for people who don't have such credibility :) 03:59:33 Huh. Doesn't sound insane. ;) 04:00:13 (I was being facetious with my comment to akovalenko) 04:00:25 gko: you can call clisp with the -E iso-8859-1 options. 04:00:31 p_l: That is the basis of www.innocentive.com, rewards for solving tasks are placed on that site. If you solve the task, you get the reward. 04:01:10 tmh: thanks for link, didn't know about that site - only had seen project-specific bounty systems (like AROS') 04:01:41 p_l: I think it is a great idea. Unfortunately, most of the problems on innocentive are outside my domain. 04:01:49 yeah 04:03:03 -!- WRZ [~s9827148@vlsi06.ice.cycu.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: WRZ] 04:03:13 tmh: I was thinking of maintaining a CL-oriented bounty system, with foundation used to handle the money, where 1) developer could suggest a project 2) people could donate for it 3) foundation would keep it in escrow for specific milestones reached or whole project being finished 04:03:44 p_l: could two developers (not working together) work on the same task? or would it be first-come first serve? 04:04:20 felideon: depends on details - AROS' bounty system afaik worked on "who comes first with solution that fulfills the bounty" 04:04:34 ah 04:04:52 even if a second implementation is more elegant/correct? :) 04:04:54 felideon: the best way to handle that would be to use fine-grained projects 04:04:58 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-214.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:06 felideon: the bounty system was more about "getting it done" :) 04:05:12 ah I see 04:05:29 p_l: That's a good idea. There is still a small downside if I put money in escrow and the project doesn't get completed. Although, with a defined time frame, that's not really an issue. 04:05:38 -!- el-maxo_ [~max@p57A57D26.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:05:45 -!- scombinator [~user@cs-gw-private.otago.ac.nz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:46 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:00 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:19 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has joined #lisp 04:06:25 tmh: yeah, but depending on exact rules, if money is paid out on finished project, in case of unfinished the money could be returned 04:06:51 el-maxo [~max@p57A5663B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:13 p_l: If you did get that system in place, it would be great if you have both a bounty system and a milestone system. The bounty system would enable the funders to post projects and provide a way for unknowns to establish reputation. 04:07:16 An interesting thing would be to make it possible for people to decide that they are happy with the developement effort and decide to award the developer their share of money even if the project isn't complete 04:07:58 p_l: Actually, the thing you are describing is already covered by Elance and Guru. 04:08:04 drewc: I just want it to not output the warning message. I tried to change the locale but there are only things such as iso_8859_1. en_US.ISO8859-1, etc... so I always get this warning. 646 is probably LC_ALL=C. 04:08:19 -!- drwho_ [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:08:39 tmh: I don't know about Guru, but at least Elance didn't support multiple people paying for the work 04:08:44 same for oDesk 04:08:54 It would be especially nice if it was required that such tasks and projects use an OSF-compatible license. 04:08:58 p_l: Ah, didn't know that. 04:09:08 Quadrescence: I was thinking MIT or similar 04:09:38 unless all "investors" agreed to a different one 04:10:16 gko: if it's linux, locale-gen (or a system-specific thing like dpkg-reconfigure locales) can be required (once) before a new locale may be used. 04:12:19 akovalenko: it's a Solaris system. I guess I'll have to create one locale to fit... 04:13:23 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.54.87] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 04:13:24 -!- vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtech.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:41 -!- Administrator [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-1168013476.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:13:52 -!- tmh [4b1be7fa@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has left #lisp 04:13:58 vpit3833 [~user@mail.protocomtechnology.com] has joined #lisp 04:14:15 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:14:36 gko: if there is no nl_langinfo(CODESET) on solaris, clisp has to reimplement it, and that may be incorrent. "646" looks too familiar.. 04:15:20 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56564.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:56 the idea for the bounty system came from rather weird source for me, though 04:16:20 everbird [~Adium@li389-19.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:17:50 *akovalenko* hopes that will be still remembered after some years, when such bounty system is in place. Maybe I'd get a couple things undone and done again :-) 04:19:03 heh 04:19:26 akovalenko: ISO 646 is indeed familiar ;) 04:19:53 akovalenko: do you work on Windows SBCL? 04:19:55 in my case it was reading through the madness called WS-* standards, figuring how useful they can be when it comes to being able to use CL in corporate environment, then noticing that stacking shelves promises better payout in short term 04:20:02 Quadrescence: yes. 04:20:23 ..last year or so. 04:21:12 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:40 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A6BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:55 -!- daniel_ [~daniel@p5082B448.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:29:59 -!- ehine1 [~ericyoda@rrcs-72-43-70-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:35:10 RomyEatsDrupal_ [~stickycak@ool-ade56564.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:34 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade56564.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:35:34 -!- RomyEatsDrupal_ is now known as RomyEatsDrupal 04:39:33 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:41:34 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 04:42:19 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 04:42:53 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-170.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:44:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-87.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:45:40 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-214.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:51:37 Kron [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has joined #lisp 04:51:41 can allegro's personal edition generate executables? 04:52:03 -!- Kron is now known as Guest32704 04:52:37 (looking into using it for part of a course project) 04:52:43 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@98.143.99.171] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:52:58 are you required to use allegro? 04:53:07 perhaps. I think the only limitation is one of size. 04:53:37 felideon: No. However, Allegro packs AllegroGraph :) 04:55:48 and allegrograph packs certain features that would be very nice (if not required) for our project, namely non-rigid database schema, and geospatial data support 04:58:39 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:00:37 oh, I see :) 05:02:21 as of last team meeting, the project has codename "Potato" :> 05:02:46 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:02:49 (we are doing integrated supply chain from local farmers to retailers/restaurants) 05:04:06 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:05:11 -!- qeed [~qeed@adsl-98-85-58-225.mco.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:05:51 p_l: Have you considered "BotatoSalad"? http://failblog.org/2011/11/09/epic-fail-failbook-having-kids-is-no-picnic/ 05:07:03 sellout-: the name comes from how we constantly used potatoes as the hypothetical food product in our use cases 05:07:26 p_l: that sounds amazingly cool 05:07:37 Is this a company gig or an academic gig? 05:09:01 pnathan1: student assignment-gig 05:09:03 srsly 05:09:15 Oh. 05:09:29 Is it going to go into production? :) 05:09:36 pnathan1: we are approaching it like that. 05:09:50 -!- pnathan1 is now known as pnathan 05:09:54 Whether it will end up usable at all, time will show 05:10:01 superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-170.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:10:04 *pnathan* smirks. 05:10:18 senior project? 05:10:19 basically, as part of software engineering course, we have to do from scratch a commercially-viable project 05:10:24 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:10:45 Ah. I remember those sorts of jokes during my undergrad. 05:10:49 pnathan: 3rd/4th year project (depends on how your courses ended up, and whether you're a Honours student or not) 05:11:18 Honours student get their own final-year solo project 05:11:27 Fun. 05:11:49 (after doing the software engineering in 3rd year :D) 05:14:55 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-xuzjwyidgaehanhw] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:56 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:04 I have a pretty bad opinion of software engineering courses, personally. 05:16:10 good luck p_l 05:16:38 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE31743.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:43 pnathan: well, there are reasons why I tend to skip the lectures 05:19:26 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2C71B.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:20:57 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has joined #lisp 05:22:25 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449892.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:23:13 yates1 [c05e5c0e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.94.92.14] has joined #lisp 05:23:43 trying to run a clisp/gtk demo under cygwin and getting a 05:23:49 *** - FUNCTION: undefined function G_SIGNAL_CONNECT_DATA-0 05:23:54 error 05:24:12 seems like this happens just in the initial (load "gtk") 05:24:16 any ideas on its cause? 05:27:15 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:27:41 Well, there's an undefined function. :P Have you grepped your source code for where it's coming from? 05:28:40 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:31:22 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:09 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-250-113.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:35:03 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE31743.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:38:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:41:37 -!- jimmyrcom [~fold@75.53.33.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:44:10 tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.135] has joined #lisp 05:48:10 H4ns [57bd6f41@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.111.65] has joined #lisp 05:52:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.133.50] has joined #lisp 05:52:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.133.50] has quit [Changing host] 05:52:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 05:54:16 tiglog [~topeak@114.112.44.154] has joined #lisp 05:54:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:54:52 peterhil [~peterhil@MYCMXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 05:55:30 rodt [~rodney@unaffiliated/rodt] has joined #lisp 05:55:37 -!- tiglog [~topeak@114.112.44.154] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 05:55:43 Chiron3 [~Chiron3@5ad9f3ae.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 05:56:33 tiglog [~topeak@117.79.232.235] has joined #lisp 05:56:51 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:57:18 -!- Guest32704 [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:57:57 What's the relationship between iolib-grovel and cffi-grovel? 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06:56:14 in the REPL this works as expected, but not in compiled code... 06:56:41 the elements of the simple vector are all initialized to 0, too 06:56:57 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.214.110] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:22 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:58:06 Ralith: what did you expect? (upgraded-array-element-type 'boolean) => T 06:58:29 akovalenko: I expect my :initial-element to be respected. 06:58:40 hmm 06:59:10 wait hold on 06:59:31 my bad, the 0 is my end 06:59:35 *antifuchs* precognizingly screams "defvar" 06:59:40 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:59:41 huh? 06:59:42 no 07:00:06 chenbing [~user@60.176.150.43] has joined #lisp 07:00:39 ah, sorry, just a hunch (: 07:00:47 good night (: 07:01:01 nurv101 [~nurv@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 07:05:23 night 07:05:24 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.210.70] has joined #lisp 07:09:03 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 07:13:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:14:49 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-116.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:14:49 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.239.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:17:03 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:17:15 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[~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:18:26 drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 09:19:42 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:21:48 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:22:28 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:23:42 -!- everbird [~Adium@li389-19.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:28:06 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:28:26 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 09:29:46 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:25 Malkith [~redmundia@ks370174.kimsufi.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:45 hello. given 'accessor symbol, how can I call (setf accessor) ? 09:30:56 everbird [~Adium@li389-19.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:59 '(setf accessor) 09:32:15 #'(setf accessor) that is 09:32:19 dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has joined #lisp 09:33:44 undefined function: setf accessor 09:34:53 (defun change-object (id accessor value) (funcall #'(setf accessor) (nth id *objects*) value)) 09:38:26 robertbrook [~robertbro@212.183.128.43] has joined #lisp 09:38:39 (let ((accessor 'foo)) (funcall (fdefinition `(setf ,accessor)) 12 34)) 09:39:00 (with a (setf foo) function defined, obviously 09:39:17 right, it was quoted 09:39:20 thanks 09:39:20 -!- gko [~gko@42-70-252-86.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:39:26 not that it sounds like a good idea in the first place 09:39:37 why not 09:39:38 rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 09:39:57 use the mop if you want to intercept slot value changes. 09:40:30 having to call change-object instead of using the accessor directly is rather ugly. 09:40:32 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-uyjtngpzvwurwapo] has joined #lisp 09:41:19 or pass the accessor function explicitly 09:41:35 MjrTom [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has joined #lisp 09:41:44 Kryztof: right. also ugly, though. 09:41:47 (defun change-object (id setfer value) (funcall setfer value (nth id *objects*))) ; value is the first argument to (setf ...) functions 09:42:24 mildly ugly. I'm not sure how much uglier it is than passing a slot name and looking up a setfer using the mop 09:42:28 like in (change-object 1234 '(setf something) 456) 09:42:36 #'(setf something) 09:42:44 ah, even that. 09:43:05 *bleargh* 09:43:15 yes, well, no-one ever said that Lisp was a nice language 09:43:34 i didnt want to intercept slot changes, but to abstract away access to the objects since I'm using a list now and later I'll switch to a database 09:43:35 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 09:43:40 that kind of ugliness could be hadi in like any language. 09:44:27 premature abstraction is the root of all postmodernism 09:44:50 (ok, enough: time to make myself miserable by moving pieces of paper around) 09:44:54 Malkith: its your choice anyway. i find the approach ugly. you could at least make change-object into a macro and let that add the #'(setf ...) around the accessor name. 09:46:17 If you're worried about abstracting away access to the *objects*, why not do that rather than abstracting away modifications to them? 09:46:36 (defun lookup-object (id) (nth id *objects*)) 09:46:56 (let ((thingy (lookup-object 1234))) (setf (whatever thingy) 456)) 09:48:28 dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 09:48:47 yeah I think that's nicer 09:48:58 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:49:02 I'll do it like that 09:52:05 I wasnt' quite sure if that would modify the original object or it's copy 09:52:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:56:10 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:59:20 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:59:49 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518865.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:00:02 fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518865.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 10:00:47 -!- robertbrook [~robertbro@212.183.128.43] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:06:17 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 10:06:46 -!- everbird [~Adium@li389-19.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:10:16 -!- jdz_ is now known as jdz 10:10:30 everbird [~Adium@li389-19.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:14:45 -!- everbird [~Adium@li389-19.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 10:17:37 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 10:18:54 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:10 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 10:19:49 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:21:45 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zrcxgycttciruqtl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:24:23 rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:25:14 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 10:26:24 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:32:17 tarmil [~user@business-178-48-18-229.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:40:13 -!- dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:43:06 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 10:44:56 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:45:16 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:46:13 rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:47:24 nurv101 [~nurv@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 10:47:51 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:49:19 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:51:49 -!- nurv101 [~nurv@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:52:31 -!- drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:22 Hi, I would like to know if projects in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ still take precedence over ASDF and systems in Quicklisp ? 10:56:34 -!- rstandy`` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:47 daimrod: that is how they are meant to work. 10:59:18 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 11:00:37 Xach: That's strange, because I've modified a project and put it in ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ but I can't quickload it. 11:01:08 It still load the old system. 11:02:02 francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has joined #lisp 11:02:08 please see this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125788 11:02:55 the first block reads some data into a hash table (no big deal), the second stores the content of the table into an "outab" variable. 11:03:42 what I didn't expect (because of my little knowledge) is that when I modify (setf) elements of outab, it's the underlying hash-table that is also modified! 11:04:51 francogrex: outab does not seem to have an underlying hash table. 11:05:06 francogrex: maybe paste the repl interactions that you don't understand, too. 11:05:12 nurv101 [~nurv@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 11:06:00 believe it or not when I modify outab, then again defparameter outab ... I don't get the original values (of the hash table) 11:06:21 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:06:24 francogrex: paste what you don't understand. 11:06:59 H4ns: can't because it's a hude file it prints very large amounts 11:07:02 huge 11:07:15 francogrex: reduce the problem to be smaller. 11:07:25 ok$ 11:07:58 (a late) good morning everyone 11:09:15 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:10:33 Xach: I've started another SBCL instance, and it works, so I guess the running SBCL don't know that I want to use another version of the system. 11:11:10 I've tried to use ql:register-local-projects but it didn't work either. 11:11:37 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:15:05 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:18:49 I think I know what the problem is: I defparameter(ed) "outab" and then in the same block I defined a local variable called also "outab"... maybe it's not a good thing to do 11:19:25 -!- knob [~knob@66.50.243.24] has quit [] 11:19:46 -!- Malkith [~redmundia@ks370174.kimsufi.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 11:22:08 francogrex: no, it is not a good thing to do. 11:22:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:23:39 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.33.2] has joined #lisp 11:23:42 francogrex: also, i'd suggest that you name your globals with *earmuffs* and use separate functions to initialize them, rather than putting a lot of code into defparameter blocks. 11:24:18 francogrex: you can remember the general rule that defvar is for variables changed by programs and defparameters is for variables changed by humans. 11:24:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-55-107.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #lisp 11:24:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-55-107.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 11:24:22 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:24:43 francogrex: using defparameter just because it will re-initialize the variable when evaluated is what i'd call bad style. 11:27:34 isn't that the whole point of using defparameter? 11:27:58 H4ns: yes ok. it's a bad style surely. I'm trying to understand if this is really the only problem, unfortunately it takes time to capture all info needed in the large file into a small test set 11:28:16 kennyd: yes. that is the point, but the point is also that it is intended to be used for parameters. 11:29:15 daimrod: ahh, asdf has a cache of some information about systems 11:29:23 daimrod: (asdf:clear-system "my-project") might help or might not 11:30:25 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-50-247.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:30:55 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-50-247.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:31:06 Malkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has joined #lisp 11:31:35 -!- Malkith [~redmundia@mail.madito.es] has quit [Client Quit] 11:32:17 ahh, fset failure 11:32:35 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-50-247.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:34:30 -!- Amadiro_ [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:36:44 Xach: Thank you !, asdf:clear-system works. 11:41:47 daimrod: glad to hear it 11:44:04 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:44:09 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 11:45:31 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 11:46:08 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:46:16 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:46:35 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 11:48:16 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-50-247.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:52:18 no, it's not the the naming of the global local that is causing an error. I assure you when I modify outab as such : (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (setf (cadr (nth 1 x)) (/ (- (cadr (nth 1 x)) mini) (* 60 60 24.0)))) outab)... outab being a list of lists : (... ("value-1" (44250 3455992800)) ("value-2" (40700 3427653600)...) the hashtable itself is also modified! 11:52:45 francogrex: again. post your code and your repl interaction to paste.lisp.org 11:53:30 francogrex: my comment was not meant to point you to the problem, as i don't understand what it could be from your description. it was about the style of the code that you've posted. i find that good style often helps understanding what's going on. 11:54:00 francogrex: you can rest assured that the mechanisms that you try to use work, and that the problem lies in how you use them. 12:05:19 here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125789 12:05:44 I didn't output all data for confidentiality reasons... 12:05:48 but should be enough 12:06:49 francogrex: from your previous paste, you are collecting a list structure (not a copy of it) and reseting a piece of that list structure, it is expected for the old location of that same list structure to have its value changed too 12:07:32 Vivitron: but it's a hash table 12:07:46 francogrex: the list that is the value is not a hash table, but a list. 12:07:49 but the hash values are cons 12:08:01 hmm 12:08:09 tricky 12:08:10 francogrex: you are modifying the list that you've stored in the hash table. you never copy them, so that's what you get. 12:08:29 francogrex: don't use destructive operations unless you need to. 12:08:33 now it's clear 12:08:46 so where do I modify? 12:08:56 francogrex: whenever you setf, you modify 12:08:58 this: (mapcar #'(lambda (x) (setf (cadr (nth 1 x)) (/ (- (cadr (nth 1 x)) 1500.0) (* 60 60 24.0)))) outab) 12:09:19 francogrex: maybe. i can't read it, but the setf tells me that there is some modification going on. 12:09:20 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.215.223] has joined #lisp 12:09:51 yes it's there... how can I change it then ... 12:10:36 I'll just use define a new variable to store the values into instead of modifying outab 12:11:09 nth 1 is the same as first. And you should use defstruct 12:11:21 better yet, use defclass. 12:11:27 hi folks. anyone have any experience with mel-base? i'm trying the examples and i'm getting MAKE-PARTS is undefined. probably doing something stupid 12:11:32 of defclass 12:11:40 Younder: where can I use defstruct or defclass in my case here ? 12:13:06 (nth 1 ...) is not the same as first 12:13:29 Kryztof, yes it is 12:13:50 no, it isn't 12:13:50 "he claims, boldly and without knowing all the fine points" 12:13:52 francogrex: I think you could change your definition of outab to ... (lambda (k v) (push (list k (copy-list v) tmp)) ...) 12:13:57 this isn't a fine point 12:14:03 this is a truly, blatantly obvious point 12:14:10 Kryztof: eek *bllush* 12:14:23 compare and contrast (first '(1 2 3)) and (nth 1 '(1 2 3)) 12:14:42 first is the same as nth 1 12:14:45 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:15:10 first is the same as nth 0 for me 12:15:37 it's that way in any non-broken common lisp 12:15:40 dsp_, yes, you got it 12:16:55 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:17:06 hugod [~hugod@rrcs-98-101-136-17.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:17:32 broken common lisp is alto right 12:17:50 *boggle*. ccl and sbcl agree, anyway 12:18:23 Vivitron: ok thanks 12:20:28 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.75.24] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:24:28 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 12:24:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:26:17 if i hit the debugger when quickloading a system with quicklisp, should i file a bug? and if so, with whom? i haven't really looked at how the stuff works and/or who is responsible for stuff. whether it's the package author, or quicklisp author, etc. 12:26:29 tested on a couple of systems to reproduce 12:26:57 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:26:58 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:20 dsp_: send it to the author of the failing software. 12:29:35 alright, thanks 12:29:38 dsp_: maybe you want to paste the error message to paste.lisp.org so that we can help you decide who that is. 12:32:59 hmm. i had assumed that specifying a channel would get it announced or something. perhaps it's timed. http://paste.lisp.org/display/125790 12:33:09 this is from doing (ql:quickload 'clpmr) 12:34:11 seems to be a problem in the clpmr library 12:34:39 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.158.42] has quit [Quit: marsell] 12:35:10 i was essentially looking for a library to manipulate maildir folders locally. wasn't sure what to go for. mel-base looked ok 12:36:01 i'll email the author. thanks 12:38:05 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 12:39:15 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:40:25 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-55-239.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:40:32 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 12:41:06 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:41:11 Finalizers make reference counting automatic. \o/ 12:41:46 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 12:43:38 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 12:45:30 Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:45:35 hi 12:45:57 is there the guy that maintains cl-opencv? 12:48:09 bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.125.15] has joined #lisp 12:51:21 -!- dca` [~user@178-16-156-18.obit.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:52:50 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:53:21 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-206-139.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:53:27 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:55:53 dsp_: it typically doesn't cause any problems to use the "keep the old value" restart there too (note that the values are #'equal) -- I think the code pattern that throws that condition in sbcl doesn't throw a condition in some implementations, you will run into it from time to time. It's still nice to alert the author of it, of course. 12:56:57 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:58 thanks! 12:58:11 no problem 12:58:12 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:01:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.33.2] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:28 (as an aside, is there a reason why i'd get QUICKLISP-CLIENT::SYSTEM-NOT-FOUND on one machine and a successful loading on another? perhaps a package list cache or something?) 13:07:30 one of the ql installs could be out of date, or the package could already be downloaded on one of the computers (either asdf findable or, I think by an older version of ql) 13:08:27 nah, never grabbed this before today, so perhaps the install is out of date. i guess i'll nuke it and reinstall 13:08:52 there's a ql command for updating 13:09:00 time to read the docs then :D 13:09:03 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:21 yes, thanks, that was easy. 4 months out of date 13:09:23 or (ql: ) and guess :) 13:10:19 and of course that fixed the problem. brilliant 13:10:47 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 13:10:54 nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.171.253] has joined #lisp 13:11:21 ah, great 13:13:10 (as another side, though not really fussed right now, that when i change the value in the clpmr package and then a few others later, such as mime4cl, i get an infinite loop of 0's printed to my screen. amused) 13:14:10 drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has joined #lisp 13:15:07 ehine1 [~ericyoda@rrcs-72-43-70-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:15 dsp_: what is the system name? 13:17:35 oh, gotcha 13:21:15 dsp_: http://wcp.sdf-eu.org/ is the homepage of the author of those projects 13:21:22 dsp_: i don't get the impression that they are tested on sbcl much 13:23:49 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:25:48 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 13:26:32 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.90] has joined #lisp 13:27:53 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 13:28:53 -!- waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:29:19 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:32:30 orflon [~chatzilla@88.197.46.250] has joined #lisp 13:33:27 hello, shouldn't (member '(2) '((1) (2))) , return (2) , GMACS returns NIL? 13:34:12 What is GMACS? 13:34:13 orflon: what is gmacs? you need to use :test as '(2) is not necessarily eql to '(2) 13:34:58 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:17 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 13:35:37 it's gclisp. H4ns, could you elaborate on the :test thing? I want to check if a list is a member of another list or not. How could I do that? 13:36:04 orflon: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_mem_m.htm 13:36:26 orflon: gclisp, i never heard about that. 13:36:28 Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:36:40 orflon: see http://l1sp.org/cl/member - by default it tests with the predicate EQL. (2) need not be EQL to (2), but it must be EQUAL. 13:36:43 (eql vivitron voltron) 13:37:28 and how do I put "EQUAL" instead of "EQL"? 13:37:50 where could I find some good "tutorial" or rather mentoring for second Dan black belt emacs usage? 13:37:50 orflon: what do you read to learn common lisp? 13:38:07 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:38:12 tutorials on the Internet, because my professor has awful notes. 13:38:14 Shaftoe: #emacs may be a good place to ask that. this channel is about common lisp 13:38:20 thanks 13:38:31 orflon: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a good book for learning CL. 13:38:43 orflon: Try Practical Common Lisp and Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation. Both available online. 13:39:04 orflon: normally you'd use something like (member item list :test #'equal) 13:39:25 aha 13:39:37 Xach could you write a small example just to understand? 13:39:47 orflon: are you stuck with GCL? It is not a very good Common Lisp. 13:39:51 orflon: I just did! 13:39:51 Xach: yeah, I already emailed him. he's surprisingly hard to find. had to use a PGP keyserver to get his address :) thanks though 13:40:10 orflon: There are other small examples in the HyperSpec, in H4ns'es link. 13:40:12 Xach, and when yousay "item" can I put a lst? 13:40:17 orflon: '(2) evaluates to your item, and '((1) (2)) evaluates to your list. 13:40:17 list* 13:40:27 ok let me check 13:41:05 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 13:41:08 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 13:42:00 thanks guys 13:42:04 -!- orflon [~chatzilla@88.197.46.250] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 7.0.1/20110928134238]] 13:42:50 Anyone happen to chitchat with Scott L. Burson on a regular basis? I'm wondering if an FSet fix for SBCL is likely any time soon. 13:43:05 I have emailed him but don't remember seeing him active in a long time. FSet's last update seems to be a long time ago. 13:43:10 a few years 13:43:49 what do i need to do to reproduce? 13:44:12 quickload fset in 62-bit fixnum sbcl 13:44:34 Xach: he was participating on the pro@ mailing list in june 13:44:51 ah, that is encouraging 13:46:08 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-25.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 13:46:25 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:46:39 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 13:47:17 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:47:19 Xach: could one use (member item list :test #'(lambda ...equal) 13:47:25 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:47:39 Xach: to test for struct item in a list? 13:47:43 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 13:47:52 -!- chu [~mathew.ba@CPE-124-176-31-250.lns2.dea.bigpond.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:48:19 Xach: (member item list :test #'(lambda ... )) 13:48:48 Posterdati: any function object may be used as the test. It must take two arguments and to be useful, return true when whatever desired equality condition is satisfied. 13:49:09 you could do something like this too. (member item list :test #'equal :key #'item-fetcher) 13:49:27 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:49:28 nikodemus: upstream is svn://common-lisp.net/project/fset/svn/trunk 13:49:40 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has left #lisp 13:49:54 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:50:16 Xach: I used dolist to scan a list of struct objects, but I'd like to use a more Lisp style 13:50:48 Posterdati: member, find, position, and related functions might be suitable 13:50:58 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:51:19 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:51:49 Xach: surely they're more optimized then a dolist loop 13:52:11 Posterdati: no. 13:52:17 Posterdati: Perhaps on some systems. If my code is not a peer, performance-wise, with system routines, I'm likely to look for a new implementation. 13:52:46 Well, within reason. The tricks that can be done optimizing bit vectors for word-at-a-time tests isn't easy to do in straight CL... 13:52:56 Posterdati: the higher order functions need to perform a function call for each iteration, whereas a dolist loop does not necessarily calls a function for each iteration. 13:53:43 H4ns: do you mean the lambda in the test argument? 13:53:51 Posterdati: within the bounds of your implementation, of course. some implementations may actually be able to optimize the function call away. in general, i'd not say that they are "surely more optimized" 13:54:06 H4ns: ok 13:54:08 Posterdati: i mean the test function, right. and the key function, if supplied. 13:54:33 H4ns: in the dolist code I put only when, cond or if 13:55:01 Posterdati: are you sure that it makes sense to optimize that bit of the code? 13:55:17 Posterdati: have you profiled the code to find the performance problem, if it exists? 13:55:47 H4ns: someone told me that this code os more c/c++ than lisp due to classes, struct and dolist iterations for list operations 13:55:58 Xach: fix sent to fset-devel 13:56:04 Posterdati: someone on the internet, i assume 13:56:20 H4ns: I didn't perform a test on my code 13:56:23 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:56:24 H4ns: on irc 13:56:29 Posterdati: well, i'm someone on the internet and i tell you: don't optimize unless you know what you need to optimize. 13:56:42 H4ns: that's make more sense 13:56:52 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 13:57:34 H4ns: my code deals with gsll so performance on big matrices should be a must, I've got no possibility with gsll to work with sparse matrices 13:57:43 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:57:51 G'morning all. 13:59:00 nyef: hi 13:59:33 H4ns: would you like to see my code? 14:00:13 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:01:49 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:03:15 how can I test for a quickloaded package? 14:04:21 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-rrmaybhqyulbwjne] has joined #lisp 14:06:33 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 14:06:34 gtrak [~gtrak```@adsl-065-015-228-194.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:56 cmatei [~cmatei@2002:5f4c:1644:1234:21e:8cff:fe02:168a] has joined #lisp 14:08:35 dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:57 -!- dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:16:58 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:09 xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:59 Posterdati: if you mean to test if a package was loaded, use (find-package ...) 14:20:25 gensym: (asdf: ? 14:20:51 Posterdati: (cl:, more likely. 14:21:31 Now, there's probably some ASDF function to see if a system definition was loaded, and maybe even one to see if the system itself was loaded. 14:21:57 duomo [~duomo@d90h34.public.simons-rock.edu] has joined #lisp 14:22:49 Posterdati: there is no general way. 14:25:44 ok 14:26:00 Posterdati: one way to ensure it is loaded is to load it 14:26:14 (ql:quickload "gsll") 14:26:18 that doesn't take much time if it is already loaded. 14:27:31 I have no clue, what is with *features*? 14:27:45 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-hjakvgthhkvxbyqj] has joined #lisp 14:28:04 gensym`: it's tied to conditional reading 14:28:25 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:29:50 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:30:18 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 14:30:36 Xach: what about: (cl:eval-when (:load-toplevel :compile-toplevel :execute) 14:30:36 (asdf:load-system :gsll)) 14:32:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:20 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:33:20 killerbo1 [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:33:44 You should express such requirements in a system file, not Lisp source code. 14:34:00 (defsystem :your-stuff :depends-on (:gsll) :components ((:file "your-code"))) 14:35:27 Xach: does it load and compile gsll? 14:35:36 Posterdati: have a look at Xach's quickproject 14:35:43 Posterdati: when you load your system, yes. 14:36:01 when you load-system your system, rather. 14:36:07 -!- kercker [~kercker@218.28.119.165] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:36:26 gensym: do you mean quicklisp? 14:36:38 Posterdati: no, he means quickproject. 14:36:42 Posterdati: (ql:quickload :quickPROJECT) 14:36:50 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-209-2-222-104.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:37:49 akovalenko: installed! 14:38:21 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.236.144] has joined #lisp 14:38:22 tyson1 [~Ian@bas1-toronto06-2925211537.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:38:35 (quickproject:make-project "posterdati-stuff/") 14:38:51 :depends-on '(gsll) 14:39:24 -!- killerbo1 [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:39:29 i've lately been doing (ql:quickload (quickproject:make-project "~/quicklisp/local-projects/my-project/" :depends-on '(cl-ppcre ironclad drakma))) 14:39:41 except distilled down to a (:make-project ...) function. 14:40:15 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:41:26 Posterdati: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html 14:41:29 So, is there an option to ASDF that lets me say "here are the files, they each start with a DEFPACKAGE that expresses build and load dependencies, figure out the required order"? 14:41:59 No. 14:42:27 nyef: though asdf-dependency-grovel can go from a working serial system file to one with proper dependencies expressed, i think. 14:42:38 Xach: quickproject should also initialize a git repo :) 14:42:52 nikodemus: it should at least have some post-create hooks or something 14:43:08 gensym: nice! Thanks 14:43:32 Seems overkill to use ADG when the dependencies are already expressed. 14:43:57 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:04 Besides, you need to start from a serial build order, which means that the actual critical step still needs to be done. 14:44:22 nyef: There is no tool that does what you want. Pioneer opportunity! 14:44:50 Can it start from load-source-then-compile-then-load, instead of a serial build order?.. 14:45:18 killerbo1 [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:45:18 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:45:40 nyef: is your plan to make defpackage's :import/:use be the way to specify inter-file dependencies? 14:45:52 akovalenko: The point is that the files won't load or compile in the wrong order, because they all start with a DEFPACKAGE that expresses the dependencies via :import-from and :use. 14:46:40 H4ns: Not exactly. As far as I'm concerned, that's already the case, I just was hoping for tool support. 14:47:38 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111102223350]] 14:54:32 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-209-2-222-104.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:54:56 GTCA [~foo@c-75-70-167-114.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:29 Hrm. Just thought of another feature I want from DEFPACKAGE. Maybe it really is time to start accumulating my own library of utilities. 14:56:30 nyef: i kind of like the idea in principle, but i think it would be better to wrap defpackage into something that is more specialized and does not require importing symbols in order to express dependencies. 14:56:31 when i have an object (or a class for that matter), can i figure out which slots are in the class and which of the slots have a corresponding initarg 14:56:37 untrustworthingt [~foo@c-75-70-167-114.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:52 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 14:57:24 H4ns: So that you can say "we need this other package, but we'll use an explicit prefix for all of the symbols we use"? 14:57:27 madnificent: yes, through the mop (slot-definition-initargs) 14:57:32 nyef: exactly. 14:58:00 H4ns: You can specify an empty list of symbol names in an :IMPORT-FROM clause. 14:58:14 -!- Untrustworthy [~foo@c-75-70-167-114.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:37 -!- drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:59:34 heh 14:59:51 nyef: oh. ok. the other kind of uneasy feeling i have is overloading the well-defined meaning of packages with what appears to be a module system. not that it is wrong, but it feels like adding back the stuff that we've told everyone not to be connected with cl packages in the past. 14:59:55 -!- GTCA [~foo@c-75-70-167-114.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:00:37 i remember to have had that same uneasy feeling about some aspects of xcvb, which mixes building and a module system 15:01:57 nyef: but please ignore me. i'm confident that it will be much better than the "damn fuck it we use only one package" approach. 15:03:12 who would do such a thing?! 15:03:30 felideon: yeah, who would? 15:03:49 *H4ns* begins listing all the big names in the lisp world, then stops 15:03:49 -!- chenbing [~user@60.176.150.43] has left #lisp 15:05:03 H4ns: seems to work briliantly, thanks for the pointer 15:05:10 sacho_ [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 15:05:19 -!- xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:06:00 Xach: shall I update to asdf2 ? 15:06:17 Posterdati: You already use ASDF2. 15:06:39 Good news, all the old transitional code for ASDF1->ASDF2 can be ripped out of asdf.lisp! asdf2 is everywhere! 15:06:54 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:07:11 Xach: so, why can't use ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d/projects.conf or ~/.local/share/common-lisp/source/ 15:07:21 Xach: I'm running debian 15:07:50 Posterdati: Do you use Quicklisp? 15:08:00 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:08:05 In a way, it is a hack, and overloading the package system. But in a way, it's also using the package system to create very tightly defined interfaces with narrow scopes, which happen to express dependency information explicitly, and actually USING that dependency information instead of recapitulating it in a system definition somewhere. 15:08:12 Xach: are there people who answer "no" to that question? Anywhere? 15:08:18 Xach: yes 15:08:20 loke: Yes! 15:08:30 Xach: I don't believe you :-) Who? 15:08:37 Posterdati: quicklisp includes asdf2. if you have problems using asdf configuration and file directories, I don't know why. 15:08:45 Xach: I put (ql:use-only-quicklisp-systems) 15:09:02 Posterdati: That inhibits the use of the directories you mentioned. 15:09:11 Are there people who answer "no" to /this/ question 15:09:21 Xach: ok 15:09:28 loke: markskilbeck for one 15:09:34 Xach: who is that? 15:09:54 loke: commercial lisp users don't show up much in my download logs 15:10:19 Xach: hmm... strange 15:10:27 loke: i suspect they have a supportive library environment bundled with the product and don't think much about getting third party libraries 15:10:39 -!- duomo [~duomo@d90h34.public.simons-rock.edu] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:10:41 or those who had that problem found/made a solution they like and are not in a rush to change 15:10:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:10:59 we're all a bunch of early adopters here, right? :) 15:11:37 -!- killerbo1 [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:11:44 If they made a solution, IMHO they should include it in QL :-) 15:11:52 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:12:18 duomo [~duomo@d90h34.public.simons-rock.edu] has joined #lisp 15:12:24 loke: usually the solution is something like "download a bunch of third-party libraries and check it into local version control" 15:12:29 that doesn't scale too well 15:12:37 not bad for team sharing though 15:12:54 (ql:allow-licences "BSD" "MIT-Style" ...) ;; could be useful to get a wider commercial-lisp audience.. 15:13:01 Xach: I suppose. 15:13:01 there are a couple cl projects that do that up on github 15:13:34 Xach: QL can have its share of problems too for large projects, I suppose. Just recently my application stopped working after a QL update (caused by incompatible changes in Hunchentoot) 15:13:42 tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has joined #lisp 15:13:51 It was easy to fix, of course, but for larger projects it could be a mess, I suppose. 15:14:00 sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has joined #lisp 15:14:10 loke: i hope to mitigate that with the ability to stick to a particular version, or go back to it if you have update regret. 15:14:18 loke: did you read "going back in time" entry @ blog.quicklisp.org ? 15:14:31 akovalenko: Yeah, I saw it. 15:14:51 akovalenko: I understand that there will be some "official" solution for this. 15:15:18 As for me, I want to be on the latest version of everything. I'll just fix my code. But then again, I don't do any large projects. 15:15:32 The going-back-to-a-version thing works now. 15:15:52 I haven't gotten any feedback from gruntled or disgruntled users, though. 15:16:12 loke: what was the incompatible change that bit you, if i may ask? 15:16:25 loke: that actually made me prefer quicklisp to a manually maintained collection for a not-so-large-but-serious project. 15:16:28 -!- tyson1 [~Ian@bas1-toronto06-2925211537.dsl.bell.ca] has left #lisp 15:16:51 loke: (I mean, the feature of "going back in time") 15:16:53 H4ns: just the simple one where the acceptor changes if you use the *DISPATCH-TABLE* 15:17:02 loke: ah, ok. 15:17:08 if I needed an old version of a library I would probably swap that library to git and continue on the news ql for everything else 15:17:16 edi is swamped in paid work and will update weitz.de on the weekend. 15:17:21 news->newest 15:17:36 Vivitron: that's ok in many cases. sometimes the web of relationships makes it tricky. 15:17:37 H4ns: took me a bit of time to read the source to figure out where it had gone, but once I did, it was a 5 second fix of course. 15:17:52 H4ns: not a bad problem to have 15:18:04 Xach: ok, it works! 15:18:15 yeah, I see where the old-versions would be especially nice for people working on more stable projects than I 15:18:26 depends if it's deliver-a-course-for-your-university paid work 15:18:51 perfectly possible to be swamped with paid work where the rate is inversely proportional to the time spent 15:19:15 Mmm... The perils of fixed-price contracts. 15:19:18 Does anyone happen to know or have contact with David Dill, of Stanford? 15:19:32 the first few years are rough, i hear, but then comes the sugar times being professor - young students admiring you and offering help, research semesters, government grants! 15:19:53 I heard an interesting claim about his relationship to Common Lisp, and wanted to ask him something, but didn't get a response via email. 15:21:10 H4ns: and byzantine, cutthroat politics 15:21:25 p_l: right, and those! 15:21:31 jimmyrcom [~fold@adsl-75-53-33-186.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:55 p_l: they always put those on the table when they want you to feel great about your miserable life as a software freelancer :) 15:22:51 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:22:59 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-26.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:24:32 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:25:38 H4ns: ... 15:27:27 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 15:31:14 -!- gtrak [~gtrak```@adsl-065-015-228-194.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:32:56 gtrak [~gtrak```@adsl-065-015-228-194.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:33:17 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.215.223] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 15:34:54 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 15:36:49 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 15:37:01 Xach: it works, quickproject is a good thing, now my project could be used by loading it with quickload :) great 15:37:06 nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:07 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:51 -!- hugod [~hugod@rrcs-98-101-136-17.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: hugod] 15:37:53 -!- gtrak [~gtrak```@adsl-065-015-228-194.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:38:47 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:39:14 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade560c8.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:14 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@46.67.40.146.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 15:41:55 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:45:24 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:47:08 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 15:47:13 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:19 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.139.160] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:50:26 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:52:00 -!- mooglenorph [~marco@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:53:41 Xach: http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 15:55:09 Posterdati: it is conventional to use ;;;; for header comments, ;;; for other top-level comments that start in the first column, ;; for comments on their own line in a defun, and ; for comments that come after a line of code. 15:55:29 Xach: I didn't know that 15:55:36 Xach: I'm taking note 15:55:46 *nyef* did, but tends to ignore this particular convention. 15:57:24 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-79-59.iburst.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:59:32 Posterdati: getf accepts an optional default value. i'd use that instead of (let ((x (getf ...))) (unless x (setf x *some-default*))))) 15:59:58 Posterdati: you can do case-insensitive string comparison with equalp. 16:00:59 Posterdati: i prefer WHEN to else-less IF 16:04:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-79-59.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:04:35 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:05:09 Xach: I started to replace equal with equalp, I missed some tests :) 16:05:50 Posterdati: it seems like using generic functions instead of typecase would make things more modular and extensible. i'm not sure if that'll ever be needed. 16:06:55 H4ns: for matching functions I taken code from PCL 16:07:06 H4ns: it's gigamonkey code 16:07:18 Posterdati: now it's yours :) 16:07:32 H4ns: well I modified it a bit 16:07:57 H4ns: I added the possibility to test for several members of the struct 16:08:24 Posterdati: you already lost me. :) 16:08:27 H4ns: so If you want to look for a node called "N1" you can :) 16:09:06 H4ns: the program itself look for particular item in a netlist 16:09:32 H4ns: netlist is a list about simple elements like diode, resistance, capacitance and so on 16:09:57 Posterdati: i won't follow to that level. 16:10:05 H4ns: ok ok :) 16:10:24 -!- sysfault [~exalted@p3m/member/sysfault] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:11:01 -!- Guest1006 is now known as trigen 16:11:13 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:12:01 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.35] has joined #lisp 16:12:59 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:13:48 Adlai` [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:15:13 chenbing [~user@60.176.150.43] has joined #lisp 16:15:14 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ahhyvlrqgwtledfs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:16:07 pedram [~pedram@85.133.204.82] has joined #lisp 16:16:26 how to build cl-ppcre? 16:16:40 hiall,I succeed with testing asdf, when about to quicklisp failed;I both have the lisp files in .emacs.d,I can (require "asdf") in slime ,but can't (require "quicklisp") 16:16:56 pedram: i usually use (ql:quickload "cl-ppcre") 16:17:06 chenbing: to load quicklisp, you must do something like (load "~/quicklisp/setup.lisp") 16:17:16 -!- Adlai` is now known as Adlai 16:17:32 LordPatience [~patience@CPE-58-168-73-247.lns4.ken.bigpond.net.au] has joined #lisp 16:17:36 chenbing: if quicklisp is loaded, you can have it add itself to your lisp init file with (ql:add-to-init-file) 16:18:05 chenbing: Aren't you mixing elisp stuff with common lisp? 16:18:48 hi i spent night fighting asdf ,at last I understand asdf just look for asd 16:18:48 Xach, is it correct with clisp? clisp --load quicklisp.lisp 16:18:49 .emacs.d is not a normal place for Common Lisp code. 16:19:12 pedram: When I am installing quicklisp, I usually start the repl first and use (load "quicklisp.lisp") 16:19:15 pedram: You can just (load ) from the REPL. 16:19:18 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@46.67.40.146.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:28 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-25.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:20:36 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:21:01 antoszka: yes ,I am mixing elisp stuff with common lisp so where I put the quicklisp.lisp in ?how about /etc/common-lisp/source? 16:21:30 chenbing: quicklisp.lisp is an installer and you can put it anywhere. you only need to use it once. 16:21:31 chenbing: It'll probably be easier to start with keeping all in your ~/. 16:21:45 chenbing: after you load it, quicklisp normally stores files in ~/quicklisp/ 16:21:46 chenbing: But, as Xach says, you'll use the installer only one. 16:22:21 antoszka, ok sorry i'm new in liso how REP? 16:22:28 *REPL 16:22:56 pedram: REPL is what you usually get when you launch pretty much any implementation of Common Lisp. 16:23:05 gtrak [~gtrak```@adsl-065-015-228-194.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:15 what the point of Xach is whereever I put it ,I only need (load "a detailed path to file") ,is it ok? 16:23:25 (and other lisps, for that matter; similar to Ruby's interactive irb, or Python's python.) 16:23:26 chenbing: No, it is not ok. 16:23:38 superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-170.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:16 pedram: (Loop (Print (Eval (Read)))) ;; that's /why/ it's called REPL 16:24:16 Xach: .... 16:24:18 chenbing: What is your goal? 16:24:26 I test first 16:25:35 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:25:35 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:26:16 (Loop (Print (Eval (Read)))) Haha, imagine Lisp, except Postfix functions. 16:26:21 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33F93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:30 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:42 LordPatience: factorlanguage.org, isn't it? 16:26:45 ok just got quicklisp now how to load it to clisp? 16:26:57 pedram: See above. 16:27:06 pedram: Been written thrice. 16:27:24 chenbing: until you get SLIME and quicklisp running, and get (slightly) familiar with SLIME, there is nothing to test. Then you'll use C-c C-k in emacs instead of (LOAD ) for currently-edited file, and ql:quickload for libraries (both third-party and your own)... 16:27:28 nyef: Never heard of it. 16:28:12 Ah, factorcode.org, sorry. 16:28:49 -!- Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:08 Adlai [~adlai@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 16:29:11 CL-USER> (load "/home/chenbing/.emacs.d/quicklisp.lisp") this works 16:29:12 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:44 chenbing: after you do that once, and install quicklisp, you can delete quicklisp.lisp 16:29:50 You only need it to install initially. 16:30:08 it's a not elegant style but works ,I record all the output for futher master 16:30:31 -!- Shaftoe [~Moe111@modemcable037.54-22-96.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe] 16:30:47 chenbing: It's perfectly elegant, you only do it once, for kickstarting. 16:30:52 you mean clisp -repl 16:30:53 Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.236.144] has joined #lisp 16:31:16 Xach: I understand your meaning ,I mixed elisp and lisp 16:31:36 pedram: normally, if you start "clisp" with no arguments, it enters the repl. 16:31:50 I wrote .emacs to (require ***) some minutes ago,really confused 16:32:11 thank you guys,It's too late ,good night 16:32:14 chenbing: Be careful what you record. 16:32:31 chenbing: If you make a map of your exploration, it might go in a tangled line when the correct path is straight and short. 16:32:37 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.236.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:32:38 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:32:45 Xach, ok now i'm in clisp how to load quicklisp then install cl-ppcre (sorry i'm completely new in lisp) 16:33:08 pedram: (load "/path/to/where/you/put/quicklisp.lisp") 16:33:17 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:33:24 pedram: Are you familiar with IRC? You can also scroll back to see the recommendations. 16:33:40 oh ,Xach ,you are always frighten me 16:33:44 pedram: It will be helpful in the long run to avoid repeated answers. 16:33:49 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:01 Xach: I admire your patience. 16:34:02 chenbing: In English writing, commas are followed, not preceded, by spaces. 16:34:10 Joreji [~thomas@89-155.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:34:28 Yes,I will recored your word 16:34:35 *akovalenko* seems to recall that (load "http://beta.quicklisp.org/...") can work in some CL, too. 16:34:47 akovalenko: in CCL, iirc 16:35:12 akovalenko: Do any of the free ones have that feature? 16:35:32 ClozureCL is the only one I know of. Maybe scieneer. 16:36:11 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:36:28 ClozureCL -- tested and it's true. I'd want SBCL to join.. 16:36:31 *Xach* isn't sure he likes the idea much, would prefer more verification 16:36:43 didn't ABCL do that too? 16:36:44 rme indicated it probably wouldn't work when i switch to ssl. 16:36:52 and i do intend to switch to ssl sometime. 16:37:46 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:52 You know, I distinctly remember wanting some feature in SBCL that would make it possible for a contrib to do fun things like make "http://wherever/" pathnames "work". 16:37:58 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has joined #lisp 16:38:36 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:39:32 doug crosher cited URL pathname support as a reason why *default-pathname-default* binding doesn't work on scieneer and why he doesn't intend to fix it. 16:39:44 *default-pathname-defaults* rather. 16:39:58 nyef: ..would make it possible for a /prudent/ contrib to do fun things (consider simple-streams, that redefines many things at will and gets what it wants anyway. physical host hackery is nothing compared to that). 16:40:12 Xach: how does it not work there? 16:40:19 you mean you can't bind it? 16:40:23 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:51 akovalenko: Yes, yes. SB-SIMPLE-STREAMS always seemed to be rather dangerously cavalier about hacking up the stream code. 16:41:03 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:34 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:44 nikodemus: you can bind it but operations don't merge with it 16:41:48 The basic idea was to be able to provide an alternate pathname-host object, which would then be in charge of creating the actual stream objects for OPEN. 16:41:58 -!- tiglog [~topeak@118.186.129.143] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:42:00 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has left #lisp 16:42:06 e.g. (let ((*d-p-d* "/foo/bar/")) (delete-file "foo.txt")) works relative to the scieneer startup directory. 16:42:10 not /foo/bar/ 16:42:34 felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 holy cow, my defcas tree finally builds. \o/ xc win! 16:43:32 defcas ? 16:43:35 nikodemus: Congratulations. What's this tree do? 16:43:59 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-25.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:44:09 d-p-d is a bad api anyways, it should actually take an open directory handle instead and let the kernel do the path merging. Using the *at functions introduced in linux last week. :P 16:44:15 Xach, http://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp efficient? 16:44:22 (not literally last week) 16:44:50 nyef: defcas, define-cas-expander, get-cas-expansion 16:45:08 Oho! By parallel with the SETF damage? 16:45:22 and (defun (cas foo) (place old new) ...) 16:45:29 s/place/object/ 16:45:40 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177890584.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:28 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:48:00 https://github.com/nikodemus/SBCL/commit/b7cde0d170dd510f3690f5cdf9e8200fbdbf03ea 16:48:53 ... why change the package docstring? 16:49:02 nikodemus: ...and let it default to (with-mutex(*big-cas-lock*)..) a-la gbbopen's portable-threads for unknown places :) 16:49:25 nyef: that's just random damage 16:50:15 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:50:37 ok quicklisp installed need inint file for clisp? 16:50:40 -!- gtrak [~gtrak```@adsl-065-015-228-194.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:50:41 pedram: I don't understand the question. 16:50:51 *init 16:50:59 ... GENSYMIFY? 16:51:22 pedram: quicklisp can augment your init file for you via (ql:add-to-init-file). That's what I usually do when first installing. 16:51:26 Other than that, seems cool. 16:52:37 keywordify, symbolify.. gensymicate?.. 16:53:34 long live QL. 16:54:46 (defun (addr something) ) ;; and let define-structure-slot-addressor use it :) 16:56:27 Xach: I tried making a separate installation of quicklisp for ccl, so I passed :path "/home/antoni/ccl-quicklisp" hoping it will create the directory (as it does with ~/quicklisp/). It did not and silently installed quicklisp into ~/. 16:56:35 Xach: Might consider this a bug. 16:56:53 antoszka: trailing / 16:56:56 akovalenko: Name conflict with SB-ALIEN? 16:57:00 antoszka: friend, you should know that it is best to specify pathnames of directories with trailing / 16:57:14 antoszka: i will try to raise a warning about it though 16:57:18 Xach: Thx. 16:57:19 nyef: and let sb-alien:addr use it, of course :) 16:57:20 I'm thinking about SETF* again, though. 16:58:39 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01164f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:58 tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 17:00:34 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 17:00:57 Xach, installed cl-ppcre how to path it for compile a program like --with-ppcre=/path/to/cl-ppcre/ ? 17:01:25 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:01:39 pedram: CL does not work like that. cl-ppcre is not the same as ppcre, which is a C library. 17:02:04 But what an interesting accidental entry into the wonderful world of Lisp! 17:02:05 To use cl-ppcre, just add it in your .asd file. 17:03:21 just compiling stumpwm with clisp http://stumpwm.svkt.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Compiling_CLISP? 17:03:33 (defsystem ... 17:03:33 :depends-on (:cl-ppcre ...) 17:03:34 ....) 17:03:46 > Error: LINEDIT:INSTALL-REPL is unsupported on Clozure Common Lisp. 17:03:51 Any alternatives for CCL? 17:04:09 (apart from external rlwrap) 17:06:11 I thought for sure linedit had been updated 17:06:15 I wonder how I got that impression :( 17:06:43 Xach: running on CCL is one thing, hooking into its repl is another.. 17:06:44 i thought so too 17:08:02 milanj [~milanj_@79-101-149-154.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:08:36 *Xach* wonders if git://common-lisp.net/projects/linedit/linedit.git is the wrong upstream 17:09:00 *akovalenko* takes a look at CCL. read-toplevel-form is a method, you can specialize it on streams... 17:09:05 gko, you mean asdf.lisp how? 17:09:56 pedram? you want to use cl-ppcre, which you got from quicklisp? 17:10:00 naeg [~naeg@mk046207129236.a1.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:13 gko, tes 17:10:17 *yes 17:10:17 hi 17:11:32 pedram: you can define a .asd file, which will define your system: needed libraries, files to compile, etc... 17:11:56 gko, just compile stumwm with clisp http://stumpwm.svkt.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl/Compiling_CLISP 17:12:10 *stumpwm 17:13:06 Oh, I don't use stumwm stuff. 17:15:37 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:17:30 situ [~quassel@223.183.158.169] has joined #lisp 17:19:24 cromie [~cromie@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 17:19:28 hello. how can i have unicode strings inside a source? if I type it in the repl it works fine, but not if I put them a .lisp file. I tried both ccl and sbcl 17:21:15 cromie: What encoding do you use for the file? 17:21:25 pedram: by default ql puts cl-ppcre somewhere around ~/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/cl-ppcre-2.0.3/ or thereabouts 17:21:25 17:22:05 isn't emacs using utf8 by default? 17:22:06 (ql:where-is-system "cl-ppcre") 17:22:22 cromie: Probably. Is it in your case? 17:22:32 not sure how to check 17:23:02 cromie: If it is, the next step is to set up SBCL to use UTF-8 by default. You can do that by setting some locale-related environment variables before starting SBCL. Are you using Mac OS X? 17:23:04 well actually emacs shouldn't matter here, I'm loading the file via asdf 17:23:12 cromie: "by default" is a very complicated notion for emacs, but on UTF8 locales, generally, "yes". That doesn't mean SLIME will use it, unless you set slime-net-coding-system appropriately. 17:23:58 cromie: Emacs does matter. When you write a file with a fancy character in it, Emacs decides what sequence of bytes to write out to represent it. And then SBCL must be configured to accept that same sequence of bytes to represent what you intended. 17:24:18 tmh [4b1be7fa@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 17:24:22 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:35 Greetings lispers 17:24:37 (setf sb-impl::*default-external-format* :utf-8) ;; if there's no luck with locale and autodetection... 17:25:05 The Linux implementations I use get the locale set to utf-8 by default, but it requires extra setup on Mac OS X in my experience. 17:25:09 ah ok. I'm not on OS X at the moment (I'm on linux), let me try that 17:25:24 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:25:25 For me on linux, I have this: LANG=en_US.utf8 17:25:34 cromie: What does "locale" tell you? 17:25:38 in the shell, that is. 17:25:56 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:26:38 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-155-194-214.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@89-155.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:27:52 got it working thanks! just wondering, is it possible to use unicode portably across several lisp implementations 17:27:59 lanthan [~ze@pD95557C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:26 Did something change about SLIME and/or ASDF in recent months so that ,load-system can't tab-complete the names of systems that asdf:load-system can actually load? 17:28:45 gigamonkey: i don't know, but that mechanism is bound not to work fully. 17:28:59 -!- lanthan [~ze@pD95557C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 17:29:06 the search system is not a bidirectional index 17:29:30 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:29:37 It used to work. 17:29:37 gigamonkey: asdf2 did away with the primacy of asdf:*central-registry*, maybe the tab completion used the central registry to do its work. 17:29:45 I think since ASDF2 even. 17:29:52 But I could be wrong about that. 17:29:58 gigamonkey: noticed something like that, but it's not persistent.. 17:30:00 *Xach* doesn't know, never used the feature and didn't notice it not working 17:30:17 Are we at the point where it's appropriate to contemplate Quicklisp integration in SLIME? 17:30:36 lanthan [~ze@pD95557C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:42 What would that mean? 17:30:56 better yet, make a nice way to add slime extensions from Quicklisp! :) 17:31:12 quickbrowse-system, quickload-system, etc., along the lines of slime-asdf contrib.. 17:31:21 Xach: well, instead of ,load-system I'd do ,quickload or some such 17:31:24 For starter. 17:31:26 s. 17:31:49 *akovalenko* has a minibuffer progressbar for ql-http somewhere.. 17:31:55 gigamonkey: ah. i can't see tab completion being very reliably there either. 17:32:08 reliable, that is 17:32:39 Why not? Surely Lisp can figure out what things are quickloadable? 17:32:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-55-107.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #lisp 17:32:56 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-55-107.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:33:03 gigamonkey: unfortunately, every asdf system is quickloadable :) 17:33:22 Well, there's that. 17:33:35 Xach: what do you mean by "not a bi-directional index" anyway. 17:33:49 And as soon as you add a system-definition-search-function, you can't really tab-complete your system names. 17:34:13 nyef: yeah. So don't do that. 17:34:31 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 17:34:52 Seems like with the new ASDF2 scheme it should be more tractible. I specify the trees ASDF is supposed to search for .asd files; it should be able to figure out what ones exist. 17:35:08 gigamonkey: the asdf2 way is just another entry in the search function list. 17:35:39 gigamonkey: there's no reliable way to ask, within the asdf api, "what names can i give to load-system". only, "try to find a system with this name" 17:35:43 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:36:00 gigamonkey: also, i view the system-definition-search-function list as a critical escape hatch from asdf2 stupidity. 17:36:14 Okay, so ASDF continues to be less helpful than it could. But leaving aside locally installed ASDF systems, Quicklisp knows about all the other things that are quickloadable. 17:36:31 gigamonkey: untrue. quicklisp defers to asdf searching for local projects. 17:36:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:51 Xach: how does that contradict what I just said. 17:36:52 ? 17:37:15 Sorry, I read what you wrote wrong. 17:37:41 Yes, quicklisp can provide an index of a subset of quickloadable things. 17:37:55 a list of names that are known-loadable. 17:39:01 So I'm fine with a tab completion that fails to complete some names that are actually loadable. 17:39:05 -!- tarmil [~user@business-178-48-18-229.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:39:23 Things that are quickloadable will be completed and things that ASDF can see via "normal" mechanism probably could be. 17:39:59 It would be nice if there was a way to specify, along with each search function, some kind of index function that can assist in completion. 17:40:08 Indeed. 17:40:53 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade560c8.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:08 For example, the new ~/quicklisp/local-projects/ system adds yet another system search function. And I'm not sure I'm ready to have people scrape around the implementation of it yet to, say, write completer code based on it. 17:41:23 But I think I could provide an index function that hid the internals without too much trouble. 17:42:34 What is this local-projects? Docs somewhere? 17:42:41 only on the blog. 17:42:44 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:42:49 http://blog.quicklisp.org/2011/11/november-quicklisp-updates.html 17:43:00 under "Client Update" 17:44:19 Neat. 17:44:31 That could be a use of symbol plists, actually... 17:44:53 gigamonkey: (in-package :swank) (defslimefun list-asdf-systems () (mapcar #'ql-dist:name (ql:system-list))) ;; is a good start 17:44:54 As long as you only use named functions. 17:45:03 right. and i don't. 17:45:57 as nikodemus noted early this year, loading dist information is slow. 17:46:20 i am bummed about how slow it is and will probably implement his cache idea. i wish CL implementations would instead make text IO blazing fast so I can avoid it. 17:46:28 Seems like The Right Thing is perhaps that the system search functions not necessarily be functions but anything on which a few GFs have methods. 17:47:04 *Xach* gets lunch 17:47:05 e.g. FIND-SYSTEM taking a name and LIST-ALL-SYSTEMS 17:47:33 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 17:48:26 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:48:36 -!- sacho_ [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:49:27 What separates a make-foo from a define-foo ? Distinction without a difference? 17:49:29 Obviously you could do (defmethod find-system ((function function) name) (funcall function name)) 17:49:50 tmh: in what context? 17:50:12 I'd expect make-foo to be a function that creates a foo object and define-foo to be a macro that defines a new kind of foo. 17:50:36 tmh: common convention is (make-foo ...args...) anywhere in the code, or (define-foo a-symbolic-name-of-some-foo ...whatever...) at top level 17:50:38 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-rrmaybhqyulbwjne] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:50:52 gigamonkey: Ok, that's what I was looking for. Thanks too, akovalenko. 17:50:55 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade5618c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:52:05 akovalenko: what is define-foo actually ? is that a special operator ? or macro ? 17:52:24 i see it alot, but don't know where it comes from...... 17:52:24 I've just started finding the make-foo aesthetic lacking, but can't think of a better alternative. In this case, I have objects describing things like bolts, nuts, structures, and am sick of seeing make-bolt make-nut, etc. 17:52:42 homie: that means something like define- 17:53:00 homie: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metasyntactic_variable 17:53:07 ah ok, thank you 17:53:14 tmh: The thing I like about make-foo is that it decouples the interface from the implementation. 17:53:19 drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has joined #lisp 17:53:22 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:54:32 austinh: Sure. It is also handy for differentiating between required and optional data which is impossible with MAKE-INSTANCE. All I'm looking for here is a different naming convention with the same function. 17:54:35 There are few such things that both define- and make- are useful. cl-yacc's grammar may be a good example.. 17:54:38 hmmm, i think it was not about meta-syntactic variable, what i intended to ask..... 17:55:13 homie: when I say define-foo, I mean some custom macro for defining naming things, with foo being a placeholder for a name. 17:55:19 *named things. 17:55:42 akovalenko: it was not the foo part, i didn't get i mean...... 17:55:55 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 17:55:55 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Client Quit] 17:56:01 ok macro, got it 17:56:43 I use generate-foo a lot, but somehow generate-bolt seems wrong. 17:57:23 I think I'm just looking for some worthless topic to spin on until lunch. Master procrastinator. 17:57:37 I would expect generate-foo to be used as a helper function for macros. 17:57:54 cpc26 [~cpc26@66-87-4-93.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:08 akovalenko: It's all about your domain of application, hence gigamonkey initial question about context. 17:59:19 How about create-foo? 18:00:03 I see create-foo used when defining a custom constructor for a struct, so that make-foo can still be used in client code. 18:00:51 beget-foo 18:01:07 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-170.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:12 akovalen` [~anton@77.51.42.201] has joined #lisp 18:01:17 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.171.253] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:01:30 superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-170.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:14 *austinh* did not describe that well 18:02:56 -!- akovalenko [~anton@77.51.40.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:03:22 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 18:03:47 construct-foo 18:04:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:04:26 gimme-a-foo 18:04:37 ..produce-foo, get-foo, kung-foo.. 18:04:43 lol 18:05:04 -!- loz [~user@87.226.216.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:05:08 bless-foo 18:05:11 amen 18:05:16 loz [~user@87.226.216.218] has joined #lisp 18:05:42 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 18:05:43 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-aafvehufgjsjmehl] has joined #lisp 18:06:13 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-jsxnzwzsqwxnbppt] has joined #lisp 18:06:23 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@66-87-4-93.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:06:34 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:17 Screw it, I'm going to have to stick with make-foo, it's not too many letters, and I need to just Get It Done. 18:07:34 1+ make-foo 18:08:45 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:09:03 tmh: just so you know, there is a school of thought that says if you're talking about a standard-class you should not define a contstructor function (e.g. make-foo) but just use (make-instance 'foo ...) 18:09:19 I'm not sure I agree with that school of thought, but it exists. 18:09:41 I thought about going to a convention of using the object name as the constructor name, but that creates all kinds of problems accessing the object if it is accumulating in the slot of another object. 18:10:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-79-59.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:10:19 gigamonkey: I tried that for some time and decided that I didn't like it because there was no way to distinguish between required and optional data for initialization. 18:10:56 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-jsxnzwzsqwxnbppt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:11:01 cpc26 [~cpc26@66-87-4-93.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:23 I think the interface should provide that hint/requirement. 18:11:35 tmh: yeah. There's also the issue that make-foo encapsulates the decision to use a standard-class. You could change it later to some other data structure. 18:12:32 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 18:12:48 gigamonkey: Well, that's a few levels above my use of CLOS. I've got a lot of learning ahead of me before I start deviating from standard-class. 18:13:13 I actually meant switching to something like a plain list. 18:13:14 I recently converted one use of a MAKE-FOO to use MAKE-INSTANCE directly, because MAKE-FOO was a BOA constructor and I started adding semi-optional slots and didn't want to have to adjust all of the call sites. 18:14:03 Aside from the non-standard-class thing, you also get a hook to pick a specific subclass based on the creation parameters. 18:14:27 tmh: Some people add a function to initform that will error if an arg wasn't supplied, and call it 'required'. 18:14:59 H4ns: you around? 18:15:19 austinh: I find mixing initform with initargs abhorrent and I'm insulted that you would even suggest it. (just kidding about the insulted part. :-) 18:15:24 (CLIM MAKE-PANE is an example here, there's a protocol for adjusting the mapping of pane-class-name to actual pane class.) 18:16:55 Although, maybe there is something you could do with :default-initargs or an after method of initialize-instance, but I still prefer the aesthetic of the constructor lambda list acting as a gatekeeper. 18:17:10 I use make-foo because it allows me to parameterize some instances which may be contained within the class 18:17:43 dlowe: wouldn't initialize-instance :after be better for that? 18:18:14 example: (defun make-rect (x1 y1 x2 y1) (make-instance 'rect :top-left (make-instance 'point :x x1 :y y1) :bottom-right (make-instance 'point :x x2 :y y2))) 18:18:51 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:25 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:39 drewc`` [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:44 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 18:19:44 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 18:19:44 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 18:19:53 dlowe: WRONG! Use MAKE-POINT as well. :-P 18:19:58 dlowe: I do that often. The constructor accepts a couple/few objects, operates on them and kicks out an entirely new object containing other objects. 18:20:02 nyef: yeah, whatever 18:20:51 Even better, use origin/size for one of the formats, and absolute coordinates for the other, so you have to do the conversion in the constructor. 18:20:53 I wonder if constructors a la c++ aren't a bit better in this regard 18:21:04 -!- drewc` [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:22:21 nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 18:22:45 i mean, beyond the somewhat botched semantics in the original. But the Idea that you can dispatch on the invocation without a fixed number of args seems attractive 18:24:19 prxq: it's not that useful in practice 18:25:36 anyway, nothing keeping you in lisp from making a generic make-foo 18:26:15 dlowe: I would need a pattern matcher with sane semantics, no? 18:26:32 cpc261 [~cpc26@66-87-4-155.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:52 i mean, sane semantics when used for defining functions and their dispatch. 18:27:06 Sounds like an interesting project, but I think I'll pass :-) 18:27:07 ... defgeneric make-foo ? 18:27:25 nyef: works, except for the different number of argument part 18:27:39 ah, defgeneric 18:27:43 (make-foo "1.1. Write a recursive function that reverses a list") => HOMEWORK-1.1 18:27:46 -!- cpc261 [~cpc26@66-87-4-155.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:27:56 akovalenko: that's the spirit :-) 18:28:04 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:28:32 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-ade5618c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 18:28:43 -!- cpc26 [~cpc26@66-87-4-93.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:28:52 -!- situ [~quassel@223.183.158.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:56 -!- pedram [~pedram@85.133.204.82] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:29:33 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:38:11 what would be a proper semantics for this? constructors sorted ascendently lexicographically by level in the hierarchy of the classes involved? 18:39:27 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-uyjtngpzvwurwapo] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:39:58 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33F93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:43:26 class hierarchy is not ordered 18:43:41 not strictly.... 18:44:06 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518865.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:46:10 hmmm, ok you can sort it....... 18:46:16 fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518865.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:46:26 -!- Ralith [~ralith@24.80.113.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:48:30 -!- lanthan [~ze@pD95557C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:49:04 but the spec makes no guarantees on the call order then ? 18:49:06 lol 18:49:23 or implementation dependent maybe...... 18:49:53 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33F93.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:27 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:14 -!- drwho [~drwho@208.7.157.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:54:07 -!- nikodemus [~Nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:55:08 gigamonkey: a bit 18:55:34 prxq: damn rt. will need to do more configuration and let you know later tonight. 18:56:04 H4ns: ok. 18:57:49 -!- H4ns [57bd6f41@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.111.65] has left #lisp 18:57:51 homie: it seems you can construct hierarchies that lead to 'wrong' behavior. I never have heard of someone bitten by this, though 18:57:54 H4ns [57bd6f41@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.111.65] has joined #lisp 18:58:11 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-72.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:28 -!- yates1 [c05e5c0e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.94.92.14] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:07 lanthan [~ze@pD9FEB3E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:11 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-25.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:33 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-25.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 19:04:16 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 19:04:56 giga 19:04:59 gigamonkey: hi 19:05:41 trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-134-019.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:10 Xach: http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 19:08:15 *Xach* gets deja vu 19:08:32 Again? 19:08:37 "User can enter a circuit description using a GUI (not yet implemented)" 19:08:38 heh 19:09:04 tmh: did you say you are not a quicklisp user? 19:09:37 Xach: Yes, not that I don't admire it, I just haven't had time to look at it and see how it fits into my workflow. 19:09:44 *tmh* feels ashamed. 19:10:16 H4ns: I just pushed up some stuff to Whistle that shows sort of the kind of declarative config files I use. 19:10:16 tmh: no problem. loke asked me if there were any non-users and i assured him there were. 19:10:21 I know, all of the cool kids are using it. 19:10:22 it seems we have found that one village in gaul! 19:10:51 How did you get my password?! 19:10:59 https://github.com/gigamonkey/whistle 19:11:07 Xach: ;-) 19:11:55 -!- milanj [~milanj_@79-101-149-154.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:12:17 <|3b|> gigamonkey: any idea if it would be easier to glue a websockets server to toot than to hunchentoot? 19:12:35 |3b|: It'd be easier for me! 19:12:42 gigamonkey: cool. will look at it when kid is asleep 19:13:00 <|3b|> does toot still use usocket? 19:13:00 I suspect it probably would be just because Toot is simpler since that's it's whole reason for existance. 19:13:06 |3b|: that it does. 19:13:09 Why? 19:13:34 <|3b|> makes it harder to attach websocket server using iolib 19:13:51 I see. What is the relation between usocket and iolib? 19:14:46 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:14:53 Is there an implementation which can save an image with multiple threads running? 19:15:14 naryl: ClozureCL can, iirc 19:15:40 not that it will /restart/ those threads (I'm not sure on this one) 19:15:46 <|3b|> in this context, the problem is being able to let the web server listen for connections, then possibly hand them over to the websocket server at some arbitrary later point 19:16:06 <|3b|> as far as i could tell, that would require digging into platform specific details in usocket 19:16:21 <|3b|> (not prohibitively difficult, just more work than if they were already iolib sockets) 19:16:42 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-129-110.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:17:19 *|3b|* hasn't been sufficiently motivated to actually try it, since it wouldn't go through my current reverse proxy properly anyway 19:17:53 Xach: you need a badge people can put on their project pages if their code is available in Quicklisp. 19:18:18 Does iolib run on any of the commercial Lisps? 19:18:36 <|3b|> hmm, not sure about that 19:19:24 I'd like the idea of having the Toot listeners using epoll, etc. 19:19:39 gigamonkey: that would be cute 19:19:46 Xach: Does quicklisp still rely on the ASDF *central-registry*? 19:19:52 gigamonkey: i'm not sure it's a badge of honor, though. i'm not picky. 19:19:59 tmh: only to find itself. 19:20:35 it uses a different mechanism to find system files of the projects it includes. 19:20:45 Xach: it would be a badge of discoverability, not honor 19:21:23 Xach: I think the time has come to seriously look at quicklisp. I have to go over code development with a client that knows nothing about lisp. It may make things easier if I introduce the system to them using quicklisp. 19:21:30 ah 19:21:36 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@MYCMXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:21:43 tmh: if you run into any problems, let me know. 19:21:49 tmh: It will. 19:22:22 Xach: Hah! I will most assuredly run into problems, but I'm not sure that they'll be anything you can help with. ;-) 19:22:27 When I was doing Code Quarterly I checked in a few short .lisp files and some instructions that let my designer get a web server installed an running pretty easily. 19:22:33 doritos [~joshua@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:22:52 I used my own private dist to distribute my own code via Quicklisp. 19:23:30 truly a pioneer 19:23:32 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-170.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:24:01 *|3b|* started something to turn a github account into a dist, but got bored at the point where i would have to dl all the tarballs to checksum then :/ 19:24:21 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:24:37 gigamonkey: That's a great idea. I keep having to periodically deliver code archives to them. I brought up the idea of using git since that's how I manage things anyway, and I got a vacant look. 19:24:42 That is planning ahead to the glorious future when checksums are checked 19:25:37 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:25:49 senj_ [~textual@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:27:01 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-129-110.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:27:44 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:29:03 tmh_ [4b1be7fa@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 19:29:24 -!- tmh [4b1be7fa@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:29:27 Client dropped. What is the relation between quicklisp-client on github and quicklisp.lisp? 19:30:13 tmh_: quicklisp.lisp is loaded to install the quicklisp client. 19:30:30 tmh_: i don't recommend ever checking out quicklisp-client unless you intend to hack on it and send me patches. 19:30:42 Xach: I always intend to hack on things. 19:30:46 Get over it. 19:30:51 tmh_: quicklisp.lisp is an installer and is only used for the initial setup. 19:30:55 -!- benny [~benny@i577A73F7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:31:02 Hah 19:31:05 It bootstraps the rest of the system. 19:31:30 when it's done, the client and dist directory structure will be in ~/quicklisp/ (or wherever else you specified at install time) 19:31:38 -!- tmh_ is now known as tmh 19:31:41 Xach: I load setup.lisp every time. is that wrong? 19:31:56 ah. quicklisp.lisp 19:31:59 ehu: yes, that is wrong. 19:32:03 does that work? 19:32:06 yes. 19:32:07 :-) 19:32:11 it should throw an error. 19:32:28 what should I run? 19:32:38 (or load) 19:32:43 ehu: the normal way to get it into your session is to load ~/quicklisp/setup.lisp 19:32:52 that is what (ql:add-to-init-file) adds to the init file. 19:33:11 ok. that's good. it takes quite a bit to load that on abcl. 19:33:18 is that expected? 19:33:26 To load what? 19:33:29 yes. 19:33:31 seconds. 19:34:12 like 15 seconds, I think. 19:34:15 To load what? 19:34:21 to load just setup.lisp 19:34:46 *ehu* times the load 19:34:48 ehu: Every time? I would expect it to take a while initially as it compiles the client to fasls. After that it should be faster. 19:35:11 gigamonkey: looks good. why does urls.sexp use a cons cell instead of a lisp? would it be nice to have one top-level config file that can include others rather than depending on multiple files from the source? 19:35:49 pnathan [~Adium@50.37.122.2] has joined #lisp 19:35:49 s/lisp/list/ 19:35:52 Right. 19:36:03 Yeah, top-level file might be good. 19:36:24 And no good reason for cons v. lis. 19:36:25 list. 19:36:32 :) 19:36:50 Is there any other kind of thing you have wished to be declaratively configurable. 19:36:55 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125799 19:37:21 benny [~benny@i577A318B.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:37:56 There's also the package issue: the config files are currently read in the WHISTLE package but when one is actually using WHISTLE, one's handler functions will probably not be in that package. 19:38:02 ehu: Every time? 19:38:16 So there may need to be a in-package equivalent in the urls.sexp file. 19:38:22 ehu: Also, the Release Notes on the armedbear website go to 0.27 19:38:27 Xach: yup. 19:38:30 left sidebar Release Notes link, that is 19:38:30 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 19:38:31 gigamonkey: sure - i'd want to be able to declare the document-root, logging, error template pages. 19:38:37 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:46 Xach: rerunning 19:38:48 gigamonkey: can you read the configuration in the :keyword package? 19:39:08 gigamonkey: (just a thought) 19:39:19 ehu: On my computer, it takes about 7 seconds initially and 3 seconds thereafter. are you using a computer from eastern europe, possibly powered by steam? 19:39:20 H4ns: well, the names in urls.sexp are the names of functions. 19:39:32 gigamonkey: ah, ok. 19:40:04 Xach: Didn't you know--someone ported Quicklisp to Genera. 19:40:08 Xach: annotated. 19:40:09 gigamonkey: then i'd read them in :whistle-user and document that the symbols need to be qualified for larger servers. 19:40:11 antifuchs: yes, there's no a graphical editor, but I'm going to use gschem for that 19:40:37 Xach: my system is a quadcore i7 with 8GB of memory 19:40:41 H4ns: that seems reasonable. 19:40:44 Posterdati: that's cool. I was just thinking "SMOP" at that (-: 19:40:50 dunno if it's powered by steam, but it sure gets hot enough :-) 19:41:04 antifuchs: I've no time to develop further 19:41:07 ehu: Well, that does seem a little slow. I have an 8core i7 with 16GB of memory. 19:41:07 Okay, this post-data reading code in Hunchentoot/Toot is another mazy of twisty passages. 19:41:23 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:41:36 err, not really 8 cores. 19:41:51 antifuchs: gschem uses scheme for scripting 19:41:56 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:41:58 Xach: what Ghz? 19:42:07 ehu: 11 seconds seems pretty slow for your hardware, but I don't really know what to suggest. it is 3.40Ghz per /proc/cpuinfo 19:42:27 ah. that's the problem. mine is below 2: it's a laptop. 19:42:34 that's probably the difference then. 19:43:19 ehu: On my laptop, if I'm running off of battery, the clock speed is limited as well. 19:43:30 antifuchs: one could enter the circuit using gschem, save it, then using gnetlist create a gEDA netlist and finally: gEDA netlist to -> my program netlist style :) 19:44:18 nice (: 19:44:29 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@141.196.125.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:38 antifuchs: my program uses sexp style for data 19:45:11 antifuchs: output is a txt matrix, one could use kst to visualize data :) 19:45:47 Xach: I changed file comments :) and when instead of if where possible 19:46:03 friggin rt! who chose this piece of crap for common-lisp.net? 19:46:11 oops. that was me! :D 19:46:37 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 19:47:03 Xach: which are the requisites for a project to be included in quicklisp repository? 19:47:20 Posterdati: people using your project :-) 19:47:27 lol 19:47:48 ehu: my project is too specific :) 19:50:01 H4ns: sorry... rt? 19:50:19 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:50:20 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:50:29 felideon: the bug/request tracker 19:50:31 ehu: no people for Posterdati 19:50:31 felideon: that the request tracking system that we use for admin@ 19:52:05 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:52:19 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:52:24 Oh. :) 19:56:11 Posterdati: there are no real requisites. 19:56:31 Xach: ok 19:58:48 H4ns: in your experience is there a lot of need for RECOMPUTE-REQUEST-PARAMETERS ? 19:58:58 gigamonkey: no. i have never needed it. 19:59:48 Someone was saying it was useful if you needed to play, guess-the-charset in the request data. 20:00:15 But in that case I might be tempted to say, grab the request stream yourself, read the octets and go to town with your guessing games. 20:00:45 gigamonkey: i think one can assume that we've moved forward in history and that most clients are standards compliant now, so they _will_ send a complete header with no guessing needed. 20:00:54 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 20:00:55 jajcloz [~jaj@209-6-40-20.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:16 -!- jajcloz [~jaj@209-6-40-20.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:01:42 gigamonkey: right, that is what i'd say. i would make the sever liberal in accepting data unless it complicates the implementation. the request body reading is such an area that really is trying to be too liberal. 20:03:40 I'm taking my +1 Axe of Smiting to that code now. 20:04:05 \o/ 20:04:14 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:52 gigamonkey: Maybe use a spell of cloak on the code until you have the alternative up and running, then you can smite. It's often handy to be able to look at how it worked without resorting to a diff. 20:07:07 tmh: Well, I've gotten this far just laying about with my axe. ;-) 20:08:44 *tmh* ducks 20:08:50 Other than that unfortunate lopping off of the content-length header the other day. 20:10:44 I am just completing a big factoring of code and have several large areas under block comments. The comment coloring is very annoying and it is very satisfying when I have everything I need from the old code and can delete the block. 20:12:54 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-167.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:13:22 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:17:15 superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-170.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:08 Does paredit have a feature where if you delete a paren it automatically deletes the matching paren? 20:18:24 ah the forgotten joys of CVS... 20:18:39 _-zo-_ [~kathleen@hyperion.onshored.com] has joined #lisp 20:19:06 gigamonkey: for an empty pair, yes. 20:19:13 gigamonkey: only if the pair of parens is empty. 20:19:15 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:19:46 gigamonkey: try M-s to splice the contents of a list into the containing list 20:19:47 for non-empty parens it has "if you delete a paren it -- you can't, lol!" 20:20:18 well, there is a way but it fights you 20:20:26 *gigamonkey* is going to have to try paredit someday. 20:20:42 it's hard to get used to, but it does have its rewards 20:20:43 gigamonkey: the cheat sheet is very handy 20:20:48 -!- hyoyoung [~morris@210.117.152.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:52 I've never been able to 'barf' though 20:20:53 What about Ctrl-Alt-k , That deletes form 20:20:53 Vivitron: M-up ? 20:20:57 only 'slurp' 20:20:59 *Xach* once more wonders where best to find an url-decode function 20:21:05 if you don't use the advanced features of paredit, it will drive you crazy 20:21:18 Xach: I have an answer for htat 20:21:34 I actually really like paredit, but I took the delete key back 20:21:38 dlowe: just C-M-k and navigation is enough, I think (: 20:21:55 I sometimes snarf and barf, but that plus paren insertion and wrapping is enough for me most times (: 20:22:01 dlowe: the suspense is killing me! 20:22:11 Xach: sorry. looking through code 20:22:20 -!- pnathan [~Adium@50.37.122.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:22:23 C-M-k, t, f, b, ah so nice:) I'm not sure how much of that is paredit and how much native emacs 20:22:41 Vivitron: a lot is native emacs 20:22:57 antifuchs: 'snarf' 20:23:00 but with C-M-k alone you can pretty much get around any unknown features in paredit (: 20:23:26 Xach: drakma:url-encode 20:23:53 dlowe: very short edit distance! i feel so close! 20:24:16 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-167.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:24:17 aha, i can just use (complement #'url-encode) 20:24:48 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:25:02 duh. sorry. 20:25:37 no problem :) 20:25:51 -!- easyE [XUb4OVkdAG@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:26:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-116.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:57 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/display/71327 20:26:58 :D 20:27:33 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:00 who is responsible for that? 20:29:28 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-4.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:29:44 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:51 kruft` [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:56 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 20:29:57 Liberal use of &aux 20:29:58 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:05 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 20:30:15 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 20:30:15 &aux<3 20:30:17 there's also one in http://common-lisp.net/~loliveira/ediware/hunchentoot/util.lisp 20:31:06 Don't get me wrong, I'll use &AUX for a single variable on a small function, but 1< and I'm happy with a LET. 20:31:18 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:18 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:32:33 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:32:54 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:33:42 -!- kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:34:13 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:34:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:35:04 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:19 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 20:37:51 ediware is cool 20:38:17 -!- trebor_home [~email@dslb-088-069-134-019.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:21 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 20:39:13 got the latest? 20:40:23 he aint exactly pulling any releases 20:41:04 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.210.70] has left #lisp 20:41:48 He let's his henchmen pull those releases now! 20:43:07 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33F93.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:44:11 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 20:44:13 -!- Xach has set mode +b *!*john@*.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no 20:44:22 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 20:44:38 marsell [~marsell@120.18.201.179] has joined #lisp 20:45:25 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:46:03 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:46:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.33] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:48:13 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:15 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-55.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:43 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:50:21 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-132-137.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:50:55 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:51:00 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:53:03 wws [~billstcla@p-69-195-58-96.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:27 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:56:18 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:59:40 -!- wws is now known as billstclair 20:59:47 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-58-96.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:59:47 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:01:49 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:59 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:04:25 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:06:10 gigamonkey: people are running iolib on allegro an lispworks 21:06:19 fe[nl]ix: cool. 21:06:33 I'll take a look at it later for possible use in Toot. 21:07:12 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 21:07:35 luis: how about switching babel to git ? 21:08:13 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:08:26 fe[nl]ix: I've done that. 21:08:36 fe[nl]ix: I haven't yet announced it, I guess. 21:08:54 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 21:08:55 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.35] has joined #lisp 21:09:00 fe[nl]ix: https://github.com/cl-babel 21:09:01 gigamonkey: that said, I'm not sure if those who do, are using iolib as it is(or with some patches) because I don't have an Allegro or LW licence ATM 21:09:13 luis: cool 21:10:15 fe[nl]ix: any comments on that grovel patch/suggestion by Anton? 21:10:48 oh, right 21:11:09 is :intptr defined everywhere ? 21:11:22 Should be. 21:11:25 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-25.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:11:47 if so, I'm fine 21:11:47 As long as one of the standard integer types matches the size of :pointer... 21:12:07 ok, this evening's resolution: merge grovel++ 21:12:17 size of :pointer is also a good candidate for gcc -m 21:12:38 (maybe even better than :intptr) 21:12:40 Good point. 21:13:09 and if :pointer is not defined for some platfrom, CFFI is not too useful there :) 21:13:40 hmm, why haven't I thought of that 21:13:42 :D 21:14:37 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:09 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:23 Fix pushed. 21:18:35 oh, cffi people here! wouldn't you accept a patch that gets stdcall callbacks support on unofficial sbcl/windows where they're available? (without breaking anything when they aren't, of course) 21:18:48 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 21:18:49 http://cloud.github.com/downloads/Lovesan/doors/cffi-sbcl-stdcall.patch 21:18:49 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.16] has joined #lisp 21:19:49 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:20:18 akovalenko: sure. 21:20:34 *Xach* claps with glee! 21:21:15 dru1d [~lukasz@82.177.172.217] has joined #lisp 21:21:32 *phadthai* somehow envisions cheering hobbits 21:22:15 hairy toes, neatly brushed. 21:22:45 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:23:33 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:24:38 akovalenko: I don't have how to test it on Windows right now, but it doesn't seem to break things on OSX. 21:25:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:26 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:25:31 akovalenko: pushed. 21:26:39 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.35] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:28:20 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:28:35 luis: hooray! (I don't expect :alien-callback-conventions to be present on any other sbcl than mine, btw -- so the patch is unlikely to have any effect there) 21:28:50 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:45 wewt 21:32:47 nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.190.26] has joined #lisp 21:33:12 luis: stdcall is not hooked up in cffi-fsbv, maybe that should be? 21:33:19 btw, is git repository on common-lisp.net the official home of CFFI? 21:33:35 akovalenko: github 21:33:44 akovalenko: the c-l.net repo is mirroring the one on github, or it should be at least. 21:34:05 LiamH: that'd be nice, yeah. 21:34:09 dlowe_lt1 [dlowe@nat/google/x-sskpxfrpydpgtayl] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 LiamH: sorry, I haven't yet had a chance to go through your latest commits. 21:34:59 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 21:35:22 (defparameter *c-w-s-f* (format "-m~D" (* 8 (foreign-type-size :pointer)))) ;; get ready for 144-bit platforms! 21:35:26 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:35:30 billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-58-96.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:33 luis: no worries. I suspended work at the beginning of the month because of other things. I am in the midst of testing all the quicklisp CFFI-users for compatibility (with the help of Xach); there is a lot of brokenness. I hope to resume work this weekend. 21:35:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-58-96.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:35:33 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:35:48 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-hjakvgthhkvxbyqj] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:36:25 luis: I got a private email from someone saying he has patches for the standalone FSBV to work on Windows. I asked him to checkout cffi-fsbv and port his patches, and then send them to me. 21:36:37 LiamH: awesome! 21:36:49 luis: no response yet though 21:36:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:00 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:37:06 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-162-55.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:37:17 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:38:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 21:38:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:39:07 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:30 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 21:41:50 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.236.144] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:43:45 -!- rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44:03 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 21:49:10 -!- rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:15 -!- duomo [~duomo@d90h34.public.simons-rock.edu] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 21:51:26 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 21:54:56 -!- rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:44 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 21:56:45 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 21:59:37 -!- rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has quit [Client Quit] 22:03:54 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 22:04:17 iwillig [~ivan@pool-72-68-164-78.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:23 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:06:02 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.21.136] has joined #lisp 22:11:36 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-25-191.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:12:35 -!- CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:13:05 CaZe [~CaZe@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 22:22:26 -!- tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has quit [Changing host] 22:22:26 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 22:24:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.181.16] has quit [Quit: Offline] 22:24:30 -!- naeg [~naeg@mk046207129236.a1.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:26:50 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01164f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:20 -!- cromie [~cromie@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Session timeout)] 22:29:53 -!- tmh is now known as ThomasH 22:30:22 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.215.223] has joined #lisp 22:30:47 -!- iwillig [~ivan@pool-72-68-164-78.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:32:47 iwillig [~ivan@pool-72-68-168-121.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:34:36 Ok, I'm going to start going by ThomasH, some guy wanted the tmh nick. Since I'm not super active, I am going to let him have it. Besides, I kind of like ThomasH better anyway. 22:35:10 -!- untrustworthingt is now known as Untrustworthy 22:35:16 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 22:37:25 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:47 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:40:01 xan_ [~xan@221.Red-2-138-190.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:41:43 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-132-137.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:43:14 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:47:57 -!- iwillig [~ivan@pool-72-68-168-121.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:48:11 -!- senj_ [~textual@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 22:51:01 Bike_ [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 22:51:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:52:02 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-aafvehufgjsjmehl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:22 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:55:49 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-agzgdegktvnwkuxk] has joined #lisp 22:56:02 how do you look up the documentation on a package? 22:56:12 I mean, the doc strings and such 22:56:34 packages don't seem to be bound to symbols, as far as I can tell 22:57:11 senj [~senj@S01060026f323bcdf.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.111.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:58:46 The current package is bound to *PACKAGE* 22:59:02 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 22:59:10 -!- alvis [~alvis@71.2.120.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:59:36 (DOCUMENTATION T) 22:59:37 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.117] has joined #lisp 22:59:53 (Needs to be an actual package object, not a designator.) 23:00:00 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:00:08 peterhil [~peterhil@GGZYYYKMMMCDXCII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 23:00:40 so like (documentation (find-package "MY-PACKAGE") t) 23:00:52 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:01:22 I was trying (documentation (find-package "SB-POSIX") t) 23:01:26 and it just returns nil 23:01:31 maybe there is no docstring... 23:01:38 That's correct. 23:02:12 hmmm... I was hoping for something like python's help function 23:02:27 that takes a module, and lists the documentation on all objects in the module 23:03:00 I guess do-external-symbols is the best way to do that? 23:03:03 And now, for DO-EXTERNAL-SYMBOLS, in conjunction with DOCUMENTATION or DESCRIBE... 23:03:14 23:03:16 ~. 23:03:46 antoszka: ssh? be careful! 23:03:51 antoszka: Why am I now thinking about +++ATH0 ? 23:04:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:05:07 akovalenko: Yeah, sorry, my ssh connection hung and I *was* trying to disconnect. :) 23:05:35 nyef: +++ATH0 :), same thing, yeah :) 23:05:39 ah, describe gives a lot more information than documentation, nice 23:05:42 much more like help in python 23:05:44 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 23:05:48 Those were the days. 23:06:04 nyef: when I was younger, a couple times I sent an ICMP echo request with embedded +++ATH0 to PCs on a dialup-up subnet. Most modems don't need a pause before and after +++, as it turned out. 23:06:31 akovalenko: lol. 23:06:54 akovalenko: Ah, the so-called "time independent escape sequence" "feature". Essentially, Hayes patented requiring the delay, but everybody used the Hayes command set, so... 23:07:26 And for some reason very few PPP implementations put + in the escape character map. 23:07:35 nyef: btw, is there a non-kludgy way of adding something useful to (describe 'symbol) (like a CFFI type description, for example) without eql specializers on describe-object? 23:07:56 ... I have no idea. 23:08:36 I think it's one of those things where you're going to have to do something different for every implementation out there anyway, just to get it to look right. 23:09:04 of course, I had SBCL in mind 23:09:33 I looked at that fairly recently, didn't I? 23:10:52 ..something about that scary infodb and its :kinds, probably.. 23:11:16 I think I'm going to go with a "wouldn't that be nice". 23:11:55 I'd be content with eql specializers, if only they were garbage-collected (weak). 23:12:16 -!- grouzen_ [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:12:28 grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:28 Hah! And even there, wouldn't it be better to get in before the docstring, but after all of the standard noise? 23:12:59 :around method + some "string scraping" 23:13:09 but it would be nice not to have to.. 23:13:22 Exactly. Some sort of hook, maybe. 23:13:56 But no, chalk it up to a would-be-nice-if, and feel free to submit a patch for a nicer interface. 23:14:43 as always, I have a hard time with selecting a good name :) *describe-object-hooks* *describe-hooks* *describe-[object-]functions* 23:15:01 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:16 I was more thinking specifically for symbols. 23:16:15 so if some official SBCL developer would choose a name, and I would be able to eschew all responsibility for it, all remaining work will be trivial. 23:17:10 *describe-symbol-hooks* (or -functions*) 23:17:41 sbcl has sb-poix, but is there a portable posix library? 23:18:00 I'd imagine that clisp and others don't implement sb-posix 23:18:18 catphive: Other than iolib, I think there is/was one, but I forget what it'd be called. 23:18:22 cataska: osicat 23:18:32 catphive: that's to you 23:18:45 Ah, right. osicat. That was it. 23:19:04 ERC nick completion could be a bit smarter.. 23:19:15 hmm, is iolib pretty good? 23:19:28 looks similar to libev 23:22:24 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:22:35 catphive: sometimes, iolib is what you want, and sometimes it isn't. There aren't many such things to choose from, so measuring its pretty goodness make little sense. For some purposes I'd prefer a thin layer on bare posix, (so I wouldn't have to accept another abstraction layer on it).. 23:23:12 And for tasks when I would use libev in C, iolib would be my first choice in CL. 23:23:43 yeah, I was just thinking iolib vs libev or libuv wrapped by an ffi 23:23:52 presumably iolib would be a lot easier 23:26:39 -!- Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 23:27:04 lanthan_ [~ze@pD9E3A935.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:11 -!- ehine1 [~ericyoda@rrcs-72-43-70-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:29:58 -!- lanthan [~ze@pD9FEB3E7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:30:08 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:30:55 timack [~timack@hlfx58-2a-198.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:31:39 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 23:34:28 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:06 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@pD9E3A935.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:41:31 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 23:42:55 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 23:44:54 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:46:06 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.190.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:47:15 nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.190.26] has joined #lisp 23:51:27 scottj [~scott@206.212.250.58] has joined #lisp 23:51:29 eulyix [~charles@2.26.61.20] has joined #lisp 23:51:35 how do I remove a newline from the end of a string? 23:51:40 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:51:54 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:48 (subseq string 0 (max 0 (1- (length string))) ;? (-: 23:53:03 I'm getting 'Component "ele-bdb" not found' when I try to open-store a berkley db. I've run (ql:quickload "elephant"). The quicklisp apropos feature doesn't return any hits for a ele-bdb package. What gives? 23:53:32 scottj: I'm sorry, that solution above is not ideal. use string-trim. 23:53:38 or string-right-trim: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_tr.htm 23:53:48 antifuchs: thanks 23:53:56 lanthan_ [~ze@pD9E3A9F8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:54:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:54:08 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:54:09 H4ns: the POST data API in Toot has been smote. 23:54:41 I'm open to suggestions about it but the code is a lot simpler. 23:54:57 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-24-98-69.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]