00:01:08 lolololololol 00:03:56 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-211-246.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:05:37 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 00:06:17 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85a046.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 00:06:35 no kick? 00:08:29 superflit [~superflit@71-208-211-246.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:10:03 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-88-68.btc-net.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:10:17 merikhiii: there are no girls in programming channels. 00:10:54 merikhiii: type /topic 00:11:10 -!- zmv [~zmv@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:11:37 -!- merikhiii [~sardariya@92.50.59.153] has left #lisp 00:11:38 merikhiii: try: /join #shopping 00:11:48 -!- snearch [~snearch@g231227232.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 00:12:54 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:12:55 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-168-34.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:14:01 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:15:24 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:17:44 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.226.7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:18:59 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:19:10 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:20 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2E88.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:30 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30:43 -!- sty [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925399640.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:30:47 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:33 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has joined #lisp 00:33:50 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@112.97.24.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:37:46 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:41:13 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.207] has joined #lisp 00:45:21 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 00:48:41 gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:49:31 pjb: go away. 00:51:10 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:51:14 oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.24.190] has joined #lisp 00:54:24 -!- gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gringomorcego] 00:57:32 -!- knob [~knob@66.50.243.24] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:57:50 knob [~knob@66.50.243.24] has joined #lisp 01:04:52 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:10:09 pjb: i joined #shopping where are the girls 01:10:19 lol 01:12:04 Not the comic book store. Try the shoes store. 01:15:16 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:16:06 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:19:52 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:22:53 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 01:24:37 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 01:25:06 Hello... I'm starting out in LISP, and bought a book which uses CLISP for its examples. Is there a way to save what has been done so far on CLISP? 01:25:24 I googled, yet I'm not being succesful with the commands tried 01:25:27 You mean in the interactive debugger? 01:25:34 Er, REPL. 01:25:35 knob: you should write your lisp code to a file 01:25:47 and (load "filename") to load it 01:25:48 gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:51 aaahhhh 01:25:54 ok ok... 01:26:08 So right now, when I start-up CLISP, that's like the REPL "buffer" thing? 01:26:16 http://clisp.org/impnotes/image.html <-- though there is this. 01:26:21 You're suggesting to write it into a file, and then load the file? 01:26:23 cool 01:26:26 on my way 01:26:39 Oh wow 01:26:40 w00t! 01:26:41 =) 01:27:11 Yes, when you start a Lisp system, you usually are dropped into the REPL. 01:27:17 knob: if you want a more featureful development environment, I think most people here will agree with my recommendation of http://lispcabinet.sourceforge.net/ 01:27:31 Thanks =) 01:27:41 Writing an image is NOT how you should save your progress while learning, of course. 01:27:44 I installed emacs in the box I'm learning on... a OpenBSD virtual machine... 01:27:50 oh, then disregard 01:27:54 oh... 01:28:11 the above is just an emacs+SBCL/CCL+slime+quicklisp package for win32 01:28:20 I see 01:28:38 on a *nix box, you should install emacs, SBCL and/or CCL, quicklisp, then use quicklisp to get SLIME, which you use with emacs. 01:28:38 The Usual Recommendation is to develop in emacs using the Slime plugin. Write your code in a file, use Slime to send the definitions & evaluations to the REPL, and see what happens. 01:29:09 -!- gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:29:15 Ok, n00b question: If I do stuff from the book (that suggests CLISP), would it run in emacs? Or emacs is different than "common" lisp? 01:29:21 Don't know if emacs is "scheme"? 01:29:25 I'm new to all this =) 01:29:28 -!- marsell [~marsell@101.116.43.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:29:29 Emacs has its own Lisp language as a plugin. 01:29:39 ahh 01:29:41 (well, you write emacs lisp to write plugins) 01:29:43 ok 01:29:45 knob: CLISP is an implementation of Common Lisp. Emacs can be used to write code for a variety of programming languages. 01:29:47 There's some confusion because Emacs has its own built-in Lisp language AND serves as an editor/IDE for other lisps. 01:29:54 What zak said. 01:29:57 knob: emacs uses elisp internally. SLIME is a plugin for emacs which makes it a good evelopment environment for Common Lisp. 01:30:07 Emacs Lisp is not Common Lisp and examples intended for Common Lisp won't work unless they're very trivial. 01:30:17 Emacs Lisp is also not Scheme. 01:30:19 knob: SLIME is a mode for emacs that basically turns emacs into a fancy IDE for Common Lisp. 01:30:20 That was my doubt 01:30:22 If you are using SLIME, you are using Common Lisp. 01:30:27 (usually) 01:30:31 ok ok 01:30:32 hm 01:30:35 Ralith: SLIME works with Clojure alsa 01:30:36 also 01:30:43 loke: thus the amendment :P 01:30:48 yeah :-) OK 01:30:49 also works with one or two scheme impls iirc 01:31:12 I'm going to see on that SLIME... see if I install it to eMacs... and get it running on the box 01:31:14 =) 01:31:23 use quicklisp to get it 01:31:28 though doesn't emacs have a cl package of some sort? 01:31:41 if you get into more serious lisp dev, quicklisp will make your life much easier 01:31:42 Yea, it tries to emulate common lisp with the cl package. 01:31:43 it's a pretend-cl that isn't really cl. 01:31:46 You usually CAN use code intended for Clisp with SBCL, CCL or other implementations of Common Lisp, though some things for getting real work done differ between implementations. 01:31:52 *j_king* nods. 01:32:00 guile is looking pretty good, maybe in the future it will be the main interpreter of emacs lisp 01:32:01 there's usually a trivial-foo lib for those, though 01:32:14 jimmyrcom: is that actually a thing that might happen? 01:32:28 read the guile news, it sounds that way 01:32:42 In most cases, code out of a book intended for learning Lisp won't have much implementation-specific content, so any Common Lisp will do. 01:32:44 did RMS endorse this? 01:32:46 or at least, one of the goals they're leading up to. The improvements recently have been great 01:33:14 The fact that Emacs doesn't support threading is the biggest problem, IMHO 01:33:19 zakwilson: Except that this particular book I suppose knob is talking about actually recommends clisp for the later chapters. 01:33:25 so, zak, I think my best bet now if I want emacs + CLISP is to install SLIME to the emacs installation? 01:33:30 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 01:33:39 The book is Land of LISP... 01:33:40 stallman vs tcl 01:33:47 althogh basic, at least it got me started =) 01:33:52 Or even mandates, rather than recommends. 01:34:01 knob: SLIME is basically *the* (open source) lisp IDE. Actually wanting emacs helps too, of course! 01:34:16 OH! 01:34:27 I though SLIME was a "plugin" for emacs 01:34:31 it is. 01:34:36 emacs plugins can be very extensive. 01:34:39 I've messed with guile mostly through xbindkeys, I'd much rather use that than emacs lisp, and it has threads 01:34:43 knob: yes, you should install Slime and have it use Clisp. 01:34:52 loke: emacs just got lexical bindings. It might get threads soon :-) 01:35:11 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #lisp 01:35:12 wow, lexical bindings 01:35:13 they're not going to replace emacs lisp or anything, but it'd be nice to have the option to write things in guile too 01:35:22 "Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs" ok... now it makes a little more sense to me =) 01:35:28 those elisp folks sure on the cutting-edge of language design ;) 01:35:36 *are 01:35:38 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:05 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ if you're interested 01:36:47 jimmyrcom: theorically, one can write interpreters or compilers in emacs lisp. See for example emacs-cl, a CL implementation written in emacs lisp. Unfortunately the emacs VM is rather quite specialized for emacs lisp, so writing compilers for other languages might not be as efficient as it could be with a better VM. 01:36:51 will mostly-automate SLIME installation and make getting other libraries much easier 01:37:09 To add further confusion, there are actually two parts to Slime. There's Slime that runs in Emacs and Swank, which runs on whatever Lisp implementation you're using. In the base case, Slime just starts Swank for you, but you can also embed Swank in an app you're running and connect Emacs to it, over a network if desired. 01:37:14 knob: I don't know if someone already mentioned it, but another excellent resource for learning lisp is http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 01:37:28 LoL is just fine. 01:37:39 especially if you're new to programming in general 01:38:07 PCL is also a good book. 01:38:43 Nice, SBCL 1.0.53 just got released. 01:39:19 ..and threaded windows builds are already at https://github.com/akovalenko/sbcl-win32-threads/wiki 01:39:20 Joshe, yeah! I downloaded it... going to print it out at work tomorrow 01:39:21 knob: I'd also recommend gentle introduction to symbolic computation by david s. touretzky, also available in electronic form for free. 01:39:34 Damn, you people are psychic 01:39:36 or my bosses 01:39:37 lol 01:39:44 those are the two that I'm printing out tomorrow at work 01:39:58 knob: Those three books should be a good start. Read them in parallel :) 01:40:38 (synergic effect guaranteed :)) 01:40:51 printing them out? 01:40:53 Oh wait 01:40:59 The Practical Common Lisp I can't 01:41:00 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-95-122-110.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:41:06 I worry that we might have a problem 01:41:12 Yeah... 01:41:13 someone joins: "hey guys I'm learning lisp!" 01:41:16 that seems a bit wasteful, either read online or buy a dead tree version 01:41:21 #lisp: READ THIS ENTIRE LIBRARY 01:41:56 Well, I have in front of me the Land of LISP one, and "An Introduction to Programming in Emacs Lisp" 01:42:01 Ralith: it's not that bad of a problem. Unlike many books for Blub, Lisp books tend to be entertaining AND mind-expanding. 01:42:33 Try reading "The C++ Programming Language" cover to cover... 01:42:37 there's still no good ocaml books :| 01:42:47 j_king: I know the books are good, but if I were a newbie I'd be intimidated by the implication that it's necessary to do so much reading first. 01:42:52 knob: You might just as well skip programming emacs lisp for now. You'll know when you need to get back to it later on. 01:42:58 knob: you may want to stick to learning a single lisp dialect at a time, it might be confusing to learn CL and elisp at once 01:43:17 You know, I'm going to do that... because my head is just going to blow-up 01:43:18 knob: yeah, I'd avoid elisp unless you explicitly need to extend emacs for other reasons 01:43:22 Ralith: ah. well that might be true... there could be more tutorials which seem to be helpful to get a taste of lisp. 01:43:28 Well, I bought about 8-12 C++ books when learning C++. 01:43:37 I think it's best to read from multiple sources at once. Emacs is a great way to interactively get the concepts 01:43:41 C-x e 01:43:42 Holy molly... Practical Common Lisp is $150 book?? 01:43:47 ! 01:43:50 ! 01:43:54 eshell also accepts lisp expressions as commands 01:43:59 Ahh... ok... 54ish from Amazin 01:44:00 can use as a repl 01:44:02 amazon 01:44:04 that's more like it 01:44:05 =) 01:44:08 knob: Impossible, I got it much cheaper. 01:44:21 maybe we can do an iron-blogger challenge to get more lisp tutorials out there. seems to work pretty well for perl, ruby, xxx, 01:44:27 jimmyrcom: I'm told there are good OCaml introductory texts... in french. 01:44:33 if there's no one selling the sell-bots increase the price 01:44:37 from eBay I'm looking at it at $44 01:44:50 j_king: certainly wouldn't hurt! 01:44:54 If you got a small-house seller, I'd happily go there 01:44:55 pkhuong: haha 01:45:11 'providing liquidity to the market' = siphoning money from the system 01:45:13 knob: http://www.apress.com/9781590592397  that's direct from the publisher. 01:45:14 Personally, I don't think "intro to lisp" is very practical, there are lots of great 'early lisp' articles. 'intermediate lisp' is much sparser IMO 01:45:38 Information on the different great libraries and discussions on how they are used would be useful. 01:45:44 It's not clear to me if someone informed knob he can read PCL on the author's site free of charge. 01:45:52 awesome, thanks atoszka 01:46:01 zakwilson: Someone did. 01:46:06 Zak, yeah =) saw that 01:46:12 Just making sure. 01:46:12 I just like dead trees 01:46:16 cool =) 01:46:25 zakwilson: I like to credit people with basic googling skills until shown otherwise. 01:46:54 pkhuong: the sticker shock above made me wonder. 01:47:28 *Ralith* should buy a copy of PCL someday, just to give back 01:49:04 Ralith: Get coders at work, a fascinating read. 01:49:14 oo, that's a better idea 01:51:11 sacho [~sacho@82.137.64.251] has joined #lisp 01:51:28 knob: now, as for the questions of how to save what you've done so far in the lisp image, have a look at http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/ 01:52:15 if you use it, you can double the user community 01:52:29 thanks pjb... on my way 01:52:54 knob: nowadays, unix users just save their work in files, and load files in the lisp images (incrementally when using an IDE such as slime), but there was old lisp development environments (eg. interlisp) which were able to work in the image, and still save the lisp source into external files from it. 01:52:55 knob: you said you were using lisp on openbsd, was that correct? 01:53:09 Yes 01:53:17 Created a virtual OpenBSD machine for it 01:53:35 Xach: yesterday, I earn a new user, so he would not double but only multiply it by 3/2 at most :-) 01:53:38 interesting info pjb 01:53:39 ah, always nice to see people using lisp on openbsd 01:54:07 You say! I felt like a million bucks when I was able to get the pkg_add working 01:54:13 if you have any openbsd-specific questions, feel free to aim them at me (but still in-channel) 01:54:22 in the end, it was my fat-fingers that messed-up the settings 01:54:25 and also do try the sbcl port sometime 01:54:30 Thanks! 01:54:33 SBCL? 01:54:36 it's easy enough when you know how 01:55:06 knob: That's another popular common lisp implementation besides clisp which you chose to use as recommended by the book. 01:55:09 knob: there are a lot of CL implementations. clisp is nice, but there are other implementations with other qualities. sbcl generate fast native code. 01:55:23 steel bank... hmm 01:55:25 sudo env PKG_PATH=http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/$arch/packages/$arch/ pkg_add -i $pkgname 01:55:40 It also has threads, which are nice for tasks like serving content over HTTP. 01:55:47 knob: that's a pun on the industries of carnegie and mellon. 01:55:51 pkhuong: not on openbsd, unfortunately 01:55:55 er 01:55:58 LoL... cool 01:56:01 knob: don't worry, the CL language is well standardized, so you can easily write a program that works equally well in all implementations. 01:56:03 sudo env PKG_PATH=http://ftp.openbsd.org/pub/OpenBSD/$vers/packages/$arch/ pkg_add -i $pkgname 01:56:28 copy/pasting to my notebook =) 01:56:45 joshe: I'm hoping that, if knob had to create an OpenBSD VM, it's because the host is a different OS. 01:56:50 knob: you also have an ECL package available via pkg_add 01:57:36 yeah... running windows7, and VMs in there 01:57:38 knob: ECL compiles using gcc (therefore provides an easy integration with C libraries) and is available as a library libecl.so, so it can be easily embedded in random applicactions. 01:57:39 gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:40 pkhuong: good point, unless it's one of those trendy VPS things I've heard about 01:59:42 knob: you have a wider variety of CL implementations available on windows than openbsd, I am forced to admit 02:00:31 I'm trying to do all my lisp learning inside the obsd box... just... for no reason I guess 02:01:52 -!- gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:01:52 perhaps it provides a more pleasant user experience 02:02:03 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@112.97.24.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:03:52 knob: your life might be easier if you just installed lisp cabinet in the top-level OS and worked there. 02:05:49 knob2 [~knob@66.50.243.24] has joined #lisp 02:06:21 Whoops, the topic is out of date vis a vis SBCL. 02:07:29 -!- knob [~knob@66.50.243.24] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:08:52 my IRC is acting wierd 02:08:52 Just saw the " R.I.P. John McCarthy message... very nice 02:08:52 -!- knob2 [~knob@66.50.243.24] has quit [Client Quit] 02:09:04 knob [~knob@66.50.243.24] has joined #lisp 02:10:33 bbsch [~bbs@c-67-173-0-18.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:55 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:19:50 -!- slyrus changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: SBCL 1.0.53, Hunchentoot 1.2.1, CMUCL 20c, ABCL 1.0.0, R.I.P John McCarthy. 02:20:04 hey gigamonkey 02:22:36 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 02:29:18 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 02:30:23 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B158.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:01 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DCA7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:32:48 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.232.190] has joined #lisp 02:34:05 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:00 -!- pnathan [~Adium@129.101.51.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:36:09 passionke [~Administr@60.176.47.137] has joined #lisp 02:38:21 gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:31 -!- gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:39:19 loz [~user@87.226.216.218] has joined #lisp 02:39:26 hi 02:39:44 i have strange problem with calling my macroses 02:40:07 for example (with-array-dimensions (field x-size y-size) ...) 02:40:17 where with-array-dimensions is a normal macro 02:40:33 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:34 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 02:40:38 sbcl says that function field is undefined 02:41:40 but it's just a variable for macro 02:41:47 loz: paste a short reproducible transcript to paste.lis.org 02:41:50 *paste.lisp.org 02:41:54 loz: obviously, SBCL doesn't yet know that WITH-ARRAY-DIMENSIONS is a macro in the point of compilation. The easiest way to solve it is to move (DEFMACRO WITH-ARRAY-DIMENSIONS ...) into the separate file, which will be loaded first.. 02:41:55 one sec 02:42:38 akovalenko: that shouldn't be an issue. 02:42:49 akovalenko: defmacro has a compile-time effect. 02:43:17 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:44:03 pkhuong: when it's used in /expansion code/ of following macros, it can be an issue (though it is not for sbcl, iirc..) 02:44:33 *self-correction: when it's used in expansion code of macros that are expanded in the same file... 02:45:18 another possibility is that what looks like my-project::with-array-dimensions is actually some-other-package::with-array-dimensions, and does not name your macro. 02:45:24 pkhuong: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125732 02:45:32 well, the next most frequent reason for a missing definition is some problem with packages. (apropos "with-array-dimensions") is helpful here.. 02:46:03 Or it could just be a lie about the error message. 02:46:31 akovalenko: says its fbound 02:47:05 loz: your macroexpansion is bad. no parens around ,arr are needed. 02:47:10 loz: extra parens in (,tmp (,arr)) 02:48:01 DAMN 02:48:04 loz: destructuring-bind might come in handy there. 02:48:06 thanks guys :) 02:48:19 i'm so stupid) 02:49:01 along with array-dimensions 02:50:04 macroexpand-1 is useful. 02:51:04 *Xach* is also a little surprised to get 200 responses to his survey within half a day 02:52:14 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:42 anyone uses paredit-mode in emacs? 02:53:10 loz: i do 02:53:11 more like "everyone" 02:53:50 -!- PatrickMcLaren [~PatrickMc@c-98-217-184-95.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:54:20 Xach: I refrained so far. Do you want 201? 02:54:40 Xach: how do i delete one parenthes when there is something inside parenthesis? 02:55:05 There. 02:55:25 loz: paredit lets/makes you express editing at the level of forms (expressions). 02:55:47 pjb: no rush 02:56:06 loz: do you want to hoist the content of that form out of the outermost parentheses? 02:56:46 now i only need markskilbeck's response and my day is complete 02:56:48 pkhuong: yeah 02:57:03 loz: M-r (paredit-raise-sexp) does that. 02:58:05 It's pretty important to express the edit in terms of moving (sub)expressions around, if you want to feel at ease with paredit. 02:58:40 pkhuong: hm it removes all exept one elements =\ 02:59:00 loz: it depends on the position of the cursor inside the list. 02:59:34 hm i think i tryed all posiotions 02:59:50 *positions 03:00:05 M-s (paredit-splice-sexp) may be what you want.. 03:00:33 (splice is M-s) 03:01:04 oh, nice, thank you :) 03:01:04 gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:03:01 yo slyrus 03:06:01 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-rc2] 03:06:22 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Time for sleep ...] 03:07:24 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:40 -!- rainyrhy_away is now known as rainyrhy 03:17:25 -!- gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-91-217-37.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gringomorcego] 03:18:06 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:22:05 -!- ldlework [~dlacewell@c-67-184-74-34.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:23:23 Guest17386 [~rk@c-98-193-89-15.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:41 -!- Guest17386 [~rk@c-98-193-89-15.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has left #lisp 03:28:48 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:29:25 -!- passionke [~Administr@60.176.47.137] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:30:49 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:04 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.207] has joined #lisp 03:33:53 *hugod* is surprised that swank just became a binary protocol 03:35:56 ldlework [~dlacewell@c-67-184-74-34.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:36:30 swank just became a binary protocol? 03:37:46 http://lists.common-lisp.net/pipermail/slime-devel/2011-November/018290.html 03:38:13 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has joined #lisp 03:39:23 it makes a lot of sense. 03:39:24 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:50 utf-8 makes a lot of sense 03:40:09 hugod: if you specify the encoding, it's a binary format. 03:41:45 utf-8 is however generally still quite readable 03:41:54 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 03:42:31 SidH_ [~SidH@203.101.61.10] has joined #lisp 03:43:12 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has joined #lisp 03:43:59 hugod: so is ASCII, but the number of people who think HTTP is a "text" protocol and are then surprised when their implementation of HTTP doesn't work because of line ending mismatches is staggering. 03:44:53 -!- ldlework [~dlacewell@c-67-184-74-34.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:45:06 pkhuong: the binary length encoding makes it more difficult to inspect messages, write integration tests, etc. and it saves what, 2 bytes per message? 03:46:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:47:28 hugod: up to 5. I can understand the decision to make the protocol clearly binary-oriented. 03:48:25 *rtoym* wonders if the new wire protocol had anything to do with string-to-octets in cmucl that Helmut asked about recently. 03:49:33 2 bytes I believe (4 byte int vs 6 digit hex) 03:49:33 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:49:55 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has joined #lisp 03:50:34 it's 3 bytes versus 6 then. 03:51:12 anyway, the point is just that it makes it harder to inspect; the difference in length is hardly important 03:51:47 As I said, I can understand the decision to make the protocol clearly binary-oriented. 03:53:25 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:53:32 hugod: I think it's less about length and more about encodings. 03:53:37 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:46 it's much easier to reason about octets than characters. 03:54:51 Ralith: the binary protocol could be defined so that it usually reads fine as plain text. 03:54:51 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:54:58 Ralith: a benefit that can be gained without the change in the length encoding, if I am not mistaken 03:55:09 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has joined #lisp 03:55:27 hugod: sure, but you sounded concerned by it being a binary protocol at all, not by the specific detail of binary length encoding. 03:55:56 Ralith: then I expressed myself badly 03:56:05 alright then 03:57:15 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:57:15 -!- pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:57:57 pnathan [~Adium@98.145.119.142] has joined #lisp 03:58:31 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 04:00:29 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.88.161] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:57 lemoinem 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[~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 06:19:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-55-107.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #lisp 06:19:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-55-107.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 06:19:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 06:19:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:20:59 mtd__ [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 06:23:33 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:30:27 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:34:12 morning 06:34:27 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 06:36:03 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:40:36 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:58 About PROCLAIM and DECLAIM, I do DECLARE I'm a bit confused... 06:45:15 Try: (macroexpand '(declaim (something))) 06:45:25 Is this reasonably correct (and idiomatic) style? 06:45:34 What? 06:46:22 sory... pasting 06:46:23 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.114.83] has joined #lisp 06:47:27 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:00 DataLinkDKT [~DataLinkD@1.144.95.158] has joined #lisp 06:50:10 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 06:50:31 -!- DataLinkDKT [~DataLinkD@1.144.95.158] has quit [Client Quit] 06:51:20 dmitrymatveev [~user@89.28.195.227] has joined #lisp 06:51:20 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125736 06:51:26 finaly! 06:51:37 hba [~hba@189.130.171.175] has joined #lisp 06:52:21 npat: Filthy liar! 06:52:32 pjb, what? 06:53:21 pjb, obviously a compiler warning is what I'm after 06:53:22 You promised the compiler that the arguments to tst-add be fixnum, but then you pass a float. 06:53:30 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 06:53:37 pjb, and it works great with "declaim" 06:54:05 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:54:05 It's unconforming. Anything can happen. Most probably it'll crash like a C program. 06:54:15 pjb, with "proclaim" it does work one if I "load" the source file, not if I compile and load the "fasl" 06:54:36 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:55:05 Whatever. You're a liar, the compiler can do anything with your lies, and may generate code that crashes. Game over. 06:55:20 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:33 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 06:55:33 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 06:56:10 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:56:54 pjb, mustn't it check for type if I compile with "safe" and not "speed"? 06:57:23 Otherwise, yes, declaim is usually used in toplevel forms rather than proclaim, since proclaim only has run-time effects. 06:57:41 npat: No, declarations always take priority. 06:58:51 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:59:51 Why do you pass a float to tst-add? 07:00:10 pjb, so it's up to the compiler if it will "cross-check" my declarations (as SBCL does) or if it will blindly do what I told it to... 07:00:30 The compiler doesn't has to cross check your declarations. It has to trust you. 07:01:12 (sbcl is an exception). 07:03:17 That's what the manual says: The SBCL compiler treats type declarations differently from most other Lisp compilers. Under default compilation policy the compiler doesn't blindly believe type declarations, but considers them assertions about the program that should be checked: all type declarations that have not been proven to always hold are asserted at runtime. 07:03:24 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:44 I guess I hadn't notice the "differently from most other Lisp compilers" part 07:04:14 It's not differently to other compilers, it's differently to what is specified, IIRC. 07:06:54 pjb: in as much as next to nothing is specified. 07:06:56 pjb, but... with the compiler blindly believing you (even in "safe" modes), and with no runtime checks, it seems EXTREMELY risky to do any declarations, other than very sparingly and with great care... 07:07:07 pkhuong: granted. 07:07:18 npat: indeed. 07:08:02 Happily, a lot of implementations just ignore your declarations :-) 07:09:06 pjb, this is easier to implement, i guess... 07:09:39 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 07:10:27 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-uoksbpjtrfiitgzt] has joined #lisp 07:10:32 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-uoksbpjtrfiitgzt] has quit [Changing host] 07:10:32 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:16:40 madsy [~madsy@fu/coder/madsy] has joined #lisp 07:16:54 Why doesn't #'1 yield the function object for 1 in SBCL? 07:17:26 Is it implementation defined if those symbols actually refer to a function? 07:17:28 1 is not a symbol? 07:17:55 madsy: what is the function object for 1? 07:18:16 There are symbols named "1" just like symbols named "A". 07:18:49 Okay, I swear Peter Seibels book mentioned that numbers evaluated to themselves. 07:18:58 pjb, then it should be #'\1 07:18:59 Maybe I read too much into it 07:19:00 They do. (eval '1) --> 1 07:19:19 madsy: He never wrote that numbers could be called. 07:19:31 (1) is not a lisp form. 07:19:43 pjb: That made sense. Thanks. 07:19:58 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-cpwnegeyjgqvwttt] has joined #lisp 07:19:58 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-cpwnegeyjgqvwttt] has quit [Changing host] 07:19:58 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:20:01 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:21:10 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 07:21:16 madsy: all the non-symbol, non-list lisp objects evaluate to themselves. 07:21:40 pjb: Yeah. I just totally misunderstood what self-evaluation really implied 07:22:18 pjb, madsy, (symbolp '1) --> NIL, while (symbolp '\1)--> T 07:22:39 (defun \1 () 1) (\1) --> 1 07:22:51 am0c [~am0c@119.192.218.97] has joined #lisp 07:28:52 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 07:31:08 -!- H4ns [57bd6ea3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.110.163] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:34:18 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-173.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:36:18 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:46:23 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:48:41 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:49:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-218-110.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:52:00 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-radohtnyyaunpluc] has joined #lisp 07:52:00 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-radohtnyyaunpluc] has quit [Changing host] 07:52:00 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has 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08:29:26 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:30:02 WordWow [~WordWow@adsl-76-233-38-184.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:16 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ldluomegidrpehey] has joined #lisp 08:30:40 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:30:40 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:32:27 kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ayyvzhefbdoafxkl] has joined #lisp 08:32:28 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-ayyvzhefbdoafxkl] has quit [Changing host] 08:32:28 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:34:02 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:37:06 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:39:09 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@75-163-225-197.clsp.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 08:53:19 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:20 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:53:20 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 08:56:51 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 08:58:19 good morning everyone 09:01:25 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:02:08 morning Blkt 09:02:35 hi there 09:03:31 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 09:05:56 -!- WordWow [~WordWow@adsl-76-233-38-184.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06:15 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:10:38 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:10:51 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85b2d9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:19:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 09:20:35 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 09:24:34 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ertgudwdhtkrewyo] has joined #lisp 09:25:46 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:43:34 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:44:54 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d85b2d9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 09:45:46 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:48 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:45:55 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:35 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.232.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:49:36 DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has joined #lisp 09:49:46 hi 09:50:43 flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has joined #lisp 09:50:44 -!- flip214 [~marek@86.59.100.100] has quit [Changing host] 09:50:44 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 09:51:00 I've just seen that #remove-if-not, #delete-if-not, #find-if-not are deprecated. Is there a simple way to express (remove-if-not #'listp ...)? I mean without creating a lambda (not (listp ...)) 09:51:28 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 09:51:43 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:51:48 DamienCassou: you can use COMPLEMENT 09:52:02 DamienCassou: but nobody actually treats those functions as deprecated 09:52:03 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.2.203] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:52:36 DamienCassou: and even if they are deprecated, they're still in the spec, and it is not going to change anytime soon 09:52:45 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:52:48 jdz: message understood :-) 09:52:49 jdz: thanks 09:54:58 -!- ljos [~mozzyb@login1.uib.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:56:51 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 09:57:25 -!- Kovensky [kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:33 Kryztof [~user@158.223.59.95] has joined #lisp 09:57:35 ljos [~mozzyb@login1.uib.no] has joined #lisp 09:57:53 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:58:05 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:58:30 DamienCassou: and it's not #remove-if-not, #delete-if-not, #find-if-not , but remove-if-not, delete-if-not, and find-if-not. 09:59:28 pjb: agreed (I'm currently writting a book chapter on Smalltalk where # is used to define symbols) 09:59:33 lain_ [~lain@p5797A42D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:59:37 jdz, DamienCassou: AFAIK the deprecation of REMOVE-IF-NOT is deprecated, ie. it'll stay 09:59:53 lol, deprecating the deprecations :-) 10:00:08 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:00:30 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has left #lisp 10:00:37 DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has joined #lisp 10:00:43 sorry, wrong keystroke 10:02:53 -!- gko [~gko@27.240.244.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:03:52 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:07:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:17:06 -!- tarmil [~user@business-178-48-18-229.business.broadband.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:17:21 tarmil [~user@business-178-48-18-229.business.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:18:37 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 10:19:17 -!- jewel [~jewel@196.215.168.172] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:22:10 DataLinkDKT [~DataLinkD@1.148.179.43] has joined #lisp 10:23:02 -!- DataLinkDKT [~DataLinkD@1.148.179.43] has quit [Client Quit] 10:24:28 nanoc [~conanhome@186.122.231.33] has joined #lisp 10:31:18 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.226.7] has joined #lisp 10:31:29 Hi all! 10:32:16 Bahman: hi 10:34:17 Hey DamienCassou 10:34:36 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.216] has joined #lisp 10:40:13 Is there a way to skip values when using (setf (values ...) (foo)) like in LOOP? 10:41:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.212.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:41:18 krrrcks [~dbr@mail.systemhaus-brunner.de] has joined #lisp 10:41:31 *jtza8* did it again, sry, I'm dealing with lists, not multiple values. :) 10:42:50 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 10:43:13 jtza8: You can write a destructuring-setq macro like the standard destructuring-bind macro. 10:44:15 ..I expected (setf (values(values)) 1) to do nothing, but in SBCL it results in error.. 10:44:28 *|3b|* suspects one could write a setf expander to make (setf (destructure ...) ...) work too 10:44:31 works in clisp, though. 10:48:32 gensym` [~user@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 10:51:23 -!- tiglog [~topeak@123.114.127.72] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:52:08 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:52:16 H4ns [5ddbb9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.185.254] has joined #lisp 10:56:51 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:55 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-49-13.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:08:14 Kovensky [kovensky@abraxo.bluebottle.net.au] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.92] has joined #lisp 11:08:46 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 11:09:24 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: goodbye blue sky, goodbye] 11:10:41 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 11:12:33 -!- lain_ [~lain@p5797A42D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:12:55 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.115] has joined #lisp 11:14:22 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-49-13.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:36 akovalenko: hmm, wasn't that mentioned in the 1.0.53 release notes? 11:15:11 oh, i guess not. 11:15:34 Xach: I'm testing on 1.0.53, actually. Some related things were fixed indeed, like (push ... (values ...)), but this one was not.. 11:16:55 the odd thing is that (setf (values) 1) works -- I regard this as inconsistent. 11:17:12 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:17:16 lain_ [~lain@p5797A658.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:20 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:03 WordWow [~WordWow@adsl-76-233-38-184.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:42 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.117] has joined #lisp 11:20:30 -!- rainyrhy is now known as rainyrhy_away 11:20:59 pjb: Thanks, the solution was even simpler. 11:22:26 hullo 11:24:05 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:26:36 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:37 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:29:23 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 11:29:58 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: goodbye blue sky, goodbye] 11:31:26 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 11:31:39 homie: Hi. Did you get clx working in the end? 11:32:55 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-18-25-20.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 11:33:16 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:16 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:16 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:17 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-25-20.as13285.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:17 -!- SpitfireWP [~spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:17 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:17 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:17 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:17 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:17 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:17 -!- fe[nl]ix 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quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:18 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-szzolhndohlyehnp] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:18 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:18 -!- cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:18 -!- johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:18 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:18 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1:124:ca0a:a9ff:fe03:3b99] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:33:18 -!- H4ns [5ddbb9fe@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.185.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:33:54 jtza8: well it works and i got the fonts and the colorscheme right (almost) but the tilde fails me still, am lookin in the cvs commit messages, tried to get intelligent by reading source and looking for what goes wrong or so, but didn't come with a result yet..... 11:34:18 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:34:44 -!- pjb is now known as Guest87211 11:35:19 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:35:32 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:35:53 SHODAN [~shozan@c-a1b5e253.011-86-73746f30.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:35:55 angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has joined #lisp 11:35:56 oGMo [~rpav@66.219.59.103] has joined #lisp 11:36:24 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 11:36:35 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:36:45 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1:124:ca0a:a9ff:fe03:3b99] has joined #lisp 11:36:48 jtza8: the main error is i think that the iso-level3-shift is not defined as keyword in keysyms.lisp in clx, but the backend defines them, but still can't override clx..... 11:37:19 rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has joined #lisp 11:37:29 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 11:37:31 cmbntr [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 11:37:33 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:37 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 11:37:55 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 11:38:03 -!- sacho [~sacho@82.137.64.251] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:38:11 jtza8: the only intercept is the \\ keycode 92 thing i get when i press ~ and the thing i get is ] rather....so there seems to be some mismatch somewhere... 11:38:33 reb [user@nat/google/x-yxnenptvkyunsmoc] has joined #lisp 11:38:49 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:38:55 -!- hba [~hba@189.130.171.175] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:38:56 jtza8: and the message in the wholine is still the same "iso-leve3-shift is unbound" 11:39:54 jtza8: so the array reference fails..... 11:40:29 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:40:31 jtza8: as in it may be defined in clx implicitly by the array values but is not exported as such or so...... 11:40:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.117] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 11:41:54 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:42:04 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-yxnenptvkyunsmoc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:22 -!- Daditos [~kvirc@unaffiliated/daditos] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:48 shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has joined #lisp 11:43:47 what i observe pressing ~ two times with xev is that i get once the ascitilde and once the dead-tilde 11:43:48 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1:124:ca0a:a9ff:fe03:3b99] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:44:09 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.117] has joined #lisp 11:44:17 homie: I think your keyboard config is bonkers 11:44:21 Yeah, kinda sucks that there wasn't a quick fix. 11:45:07 IIRC, homie is using QWERTZ which is the standard German keyboard layout? 11:45:11 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 11:45:15 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1:124:ca0a:a9ff:fe03:3b99] has joined #lisp 11:45:54 Also, IIRC, "A" is on the same key as "~"? 11:46:14 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:46:28 reb [user@nat/google/x-plhgavdzvlujedrd] has joined #lisp 11:46:40 If my understanding IS correct, then using non-dead keys isn't a solution. 11:47:28 no no, my keyboard is ok, the thing is both ascitilde and dead-tilde have different keysym values one is x7e the other xfe53 and ascitilde has a returncode for keycode the other has no returncode, and in both cases xstringlookup reports (7e) with ~ as char 11:47:49 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:03 Right, but do you need ~ to be a dead-key? 11:48:08 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 11:48:10 ascitilde has return keycode 49 11:48:21 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:48:22 SpitfireWP_ [~spitfire@wikipedia/spitfire] has joined #lisp 11:48:44 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:53 no using dead-keys or not using them makes no difference..... 11:49:00 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 11:49:05 DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has joined #lisp 11:49:13 even changin to qwerty does not make any difference 11:49:17 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:49:33 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:49:48 Yep, but in xev, if you don't have dead-keys enabled, then you shouldn't be getting a dead-tilde. 11:49:49 and i'm not the only one having that problem it seems, some other debian user reports the same problem somewhere on the mailing lists 11:49:57 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 11:50:11 right, move the discussion to #debian, then 11:50:19 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 11:50:36 well i'll ask there if someone got it right, yes 11:51:31 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 11:53:32 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-18-25-20.as13285.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:53:35 -!- lain_ [~lain@p5797A658.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:55:44 lain_ [~lain@p5795AED5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:19 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-18-25-20.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:55 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.137] has joined #lisp 12:00:15 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@2001:638:807:20d:7a84:3cff:fe05:3a9d] has left #lisp 12:00:38 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:07 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 12:04:00 -!- reb [user@nat/google/x-plhgavdzvlujedrd] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:04:37 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:05:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 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joined #lisp 14:05:06 Izyda76: wrong channel 14:05:32 i don't know delphi! 14:05:38 not even pascal! 14:05:40 lol 14:05:55 homie: you speak polish? :D 14:06:08 nope 14:06:10 one does not have to speak polish to figure that out... 14:06:16 yeah 14:06:22 :) 14:06:32 ok a speak english 14:06:43 Izyda76: this channel is for common lisp 14:07:16 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:11:01 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 14:11:01 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:01 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:01 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:01 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:01 -!- X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 14:11:02 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has 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realitygrill Bike ehu wishbone4 mathrick msponge Jeanne-Kamikaze ubuntu WordWow tritchey lbc Kron_ fe[nl]ix branch gkeith_lt MoALTz dru1d juniorroy mrSpec bzzbzz iwillig ikki fmeyer rtoym joast dl benkard Qworkescence am0c slyrus dlowe tsuru sacho Houl tmh leo2007 antgreen kennyd alvis gtrak ldlework xan_ Vivitron nicdev_ Intensity _3b nyef PuffTheMagic Joreji scharan ihyoyoung daedric lars_t_h theos galdor AntiSpamMeta foom 17:09:06 -!- names: csdserver Em |3b| Xach blumbri Tristam hlavaty X-Scale sykopomp xjrn pkhuong eMBee Kovensky LiamH gigamonkey derekv arbscht jimmyrcom pok_ tychoish jrockway Nshag redline6561 egn mornfall finnrobi jeekl ruediger peddie rtoyg acieroid cyrillos SHODAN kanru johs cmbntr froggey SpitfireWP_ TristamWrk sanjoyd madnificent homie` naryl wtetzner MjrTom dmiles_afk The_third_man abeaumont ecraven parabolize ybit lemoinem levi oGMo quasisane Nisstyre tali713 17:09:06 -!- names: petter``` buhman Pepe_ spacebat C-Keen s0ber mal jiacobucci anonus kruft 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Borbus guther rotty MikeSeth devhost 17:09:06 -pratchett.freenode.net:#lisp- [freenode-info] please register your nickname...don't forget to auto-identify! http://freenode.net/faq.shtml#nicksetup 17:10:35 i mentioned this in my ECLM talk, but I figured by now there would be 5 competing systems similar to QL and there would be a lot of ideas and mechanisms kicking around 17:11:54 My goal is to set aside my Fridays to focus on my non-work related lisp coding. Get out of the office and spend the day coding in a coffee shop, or something. If that happens, I could probably start generating some written content. 17:12:10 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 17:12:24 By non-work related, I mean open-source projects, although most of those support my work, so it is still work related in a sense. 17:13:44 cool 17:14:32 -!- rainyrhy is now known as rainyrhy_away 17:14:50 i think the word "foist" should be used more 17:15:20 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-218-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:15:31 *Xach* shall endeavor thus 17:15:38 :D 17:16:06 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:11 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:40 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 17:21:43
xach: foist away! :) 17:22:01 *akovalenko* learned the word "foist" from His Kennyness' blog back then: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/2008/11/foisting-of-infinite-state-machine.html 17:22:51 Too bad Kenny doesn't blog more, at the least he is entertaining and usually has some decent insight. Is he still active on cll? 17:25:44 And now for something completely different, someone has requested my nick and since I don't spend much time on IRC anymore, I'm inclined to let them have it. I was thinking of changing my nick to TomH and spending a little time establishing that. Am I'm being too generous? 17:27:01 -!- shachaf_ is now known as shachaf 17:28:33 Hexstream1 [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:28:39 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:50 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-195-78.uio.no] has joined #lisp 17:29:14 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:30:35 Isn't there a quick way to switch between the various REPLs when using Slime with multiple simultaneous implementations running? M-x slime-cycle-connections doesn't work in the obvious way it should for some reason... (it works in source buffers but not in the REPL, it just stalls there doing nothing.) 17:31:32 Hopefully the answer won't be "The gods decided that slime-cycle-connections shall do one and only one thing, and cycling REPLs is out of scope." 17:31:40 I use one REPL buffer per connection. 17:31:42 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:32:53 pkhuong: Yes, that's how it works by default... Now when I cycle from one connection to the next and the current buffer happens to be the REPL buffer for the formerly current connection, I want to switch to the REPL buffer for the newly selected connection... 17:32:56 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.214.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:39 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:00 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 17:34:13 So you want to use the same function to change the connection associated with a buffer and to switch buffers? 17:34:59 No, it's always one REPL per connection, but when I change connection I want to get at the REPL for that connection automatically. 17:35:25 pkhuong: while I'm in REPL, I find it surprising in a bad way that slime-cycle-connection doesn't do anything at all 17:36:15 (Provided that the REPL buffer for the formerly current connection was selected at the time of the switch) 17:36:56 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 17:38:06 akovalenko: C-x b and ido-mode (: 17:39:44 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:42:47 sacho [~sacho@90.154.214.110] has joined #lisp 17:43:11 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 17:43:32 Even slime-selector R doesn't bring up the correct REPL after cycling connections... This is comically unusable. 17:44:25 Hexstream1: it should bring up the last-selected REPL, no? 17:44:41 antifuchs: But I'm already in the last-selected REPL. 17:44:45 tmh: I think you're slightly too generous, unless they provide a really good explanation 17:45:05 I can live without idempotency for this one... 17:45:09 does selector-R switch between the two most recently used repls, like L does? 17:45:27 antifuchs: No, it does not. 17:45:36 that's annoying 17:46:03 My impression is: "Pretty much nobody uses multiple implementations simultaneously." 17:46:15 And I thought I was late to the party. 17:46:45 p_l: Thanks for the feedback. The explanation is not compelling. I was thinking more along the lines that I rarely use the tmh nick anymore and I don't think it would be that big of a deal to establish myself as TomH. I doubt too many people would miss the tmh nick. 17:46:47 Younder [~john@49.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 17:46:52 hi all 17:46:57 I think most people concentrate on single implementation most of the time 17:47:16 tmh: I'll put it that way - "TomH" is more annoying to type, even with tab completion :> 17:47:31 *tmh* chuckles 17:47:42 p_l: Sure, I'll still use SBCL day-to-day, but I thought I'd up my professionalism up a notch and at least lightly test on other implementations before releasing libraries... 17:47:55 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:01 p_l: That's hilarious, because I originally picked tmh because I was too lazy to type more letters. 17:48:10 tmh: I go by old unix (Or is it DEC?) axiom of "shift is hard to press" 17:48:10 paredit is by far the most useful SLIME extension 17:48:28 p_l: my completion is case insensitive. 17:48:37 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:56 It only works if you play by it's rules though 17:49:19 pkhuong: hmm... mine apparently too, but I still stand by lowercase nicks being easier :) 17:49:32 And that fuzzy thing. turn it off 17:49:33 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 17:49:57 Younder: Seems to fit your general "random commentary" pattern... 17:51:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:52:02 By the way, when first trying to run ABCL after a successful build I get a fatal error, any ideas? http://paste.lisp.org/display/125740 (I asked in #abcl but there's almost nobody there...) 17:52:33 Hexstream1, true, I develop mostly in C++, Haskell and PHP these days. But I stil love Lisp. Not necessarly Xach and his lackeys. 17:52:47 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 17:53:05 Xach: When did you start getting lackeys and why wasn't I invited? 17:53:05 Younder: Uh? 17:53:39 Younder: When everyone's the problem, maybe you're the problem... 17:53:39 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Kryztof 17:54:14 Hexstream1, lets's just say I am part of the class typical un-invite. 17:55:21 Younder: What can I say, introspection is not just for programming language implementations! 17:55:48 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 17:56:53 lic 17:56:55 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.68.25] has joined #lisp 17:56:55 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.68.25] has quit [Changing host] 17:56:55 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 17:56:56 argh 17:57:24 hmm, anyone tried CommonQT with non-QT code yet? 17:59:43 What can I say I am a multi-paradigm programmer. I use Perl, Python, PHP, C, C++, Haskell and choose the best language for the task. So all programmers are not heterogeneous, so what? 18:00:06 Hexstream1: don't feed the pet troll 18:00:32 I will never be as good as Xach in Lisp and I can live with that. 18:00:49 akovalen` [~anton@77.51.3.36] has joined #lisp 18:01:01 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-195-78.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:01:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:30 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.43.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:03:13 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:03:28 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 18:03:39 -!- loz [~user@87.226.216.218] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:03:52 loz [~user@87.226.216.218] has joined #lisp 18:04:00 Xacheys 18:04:22 *tmh* is not above being a lackey 18:05:12 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ldluomegidrpehey] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:06:12 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-195-78.uio.no] has joined #lisp 18:06:38 Hexstream1: would you consider adding a :description to place-utils.asd? 18:07:03 Xach: I guess I'll have to! 18:07:18 is that idea of "lisp macros" still unique to lisp? 18:07:34 naeg: if you have the support for lisp macros, you've made a lisp 18:07:41 -!- H4ns [5b3d4884@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.72.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:07:45 naeg: so it's kind of a tautology 18:08:30 "A tautology is that which is a tautology"? 18:09:16 Dylan has macro's, too. Many languages have. But without a simple LR(0) syntax they become to hard to use. 18:09:37 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:17 You need to work with something close to the syntax tree. 18:12:26 -!- Kryztof [~user@158.223.59.95] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:13:49 nyef, You might be interested in the book I am reading on Goedl's Incompleteness theorem. *Goedl's proof'by Nagel, Newman and Hofstater 18:13:51 I differentiate between lisp macros and all macros 18:14:08 naeg: so yes and no. common lisp makes it easy to use such a thing as macro's, even though another language might have a similar feature, it's likely not going to be used as widely as it's harder to use. the way in which you can extend the syntax in lisp really is bliss. 18:15:00 Younder: I might, but my read-queue is a disaster these days. :-/ 18:15:45 okay guys, thanks (currently learning lisp and starting to grasp macros ;)) 18:15:53 naeg: enjoy! 18:16:12 Xach: Looks good? https://github.com/Hexstream/place-utils/commit/d2ed45b76c969c1bf6d8f231145d8bee7c218a6b 18:16:57 Hexstream1: quite, thanks. can't wait for the next release! 18:17:10 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:18:09 Must update that _latest.tar.gz link then. The well-being of the universe depends on it! 18:18:53 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:19:10 You must believe in a very small universe Hexstream1 18:19:13 Hexstream1: why does the tarball have a "Hexstream-" prefix? 18:19:26 Hexstream1: I would normally expect something like "place-utils" rather than "Hexstream-place-utils" 18:19:44 Xach: Yes, sorry, I believe that's because I used Github to make the tarball for me last time. 18:19:54 ah 18:19:57 I was about to mention I'd take care not to do that again. 18:20:18 place-utils does look interesting 18:20:23 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:27 I found this behavior as unsettling as you presumably did. 18:20:34 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.148.59] has left #lisp 18:20:39 madnificent: Thanks! 18:21:12 -!- McRibbit [~user@zaza3.ida.liu.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:21:43 Oh, also worth mentioning that I did rename the file to strip the "Hexstream" part after the download, but I think the tarball internally persisted that original name internally... 18:21:52 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:22:08 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has joined #lisp 18:22:29 It's what's inside that matters, for people, and for tarballs. 18:23:07 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 18:24:29 (interestingp :place-utils) => T. Maybe it's time to stop reinventing funcallf & applyf.. 18:24:45 duomo [~duomo@d90h240.public.simons-rock.edu] has joined #lisp 18:25:13 akovalenko: Ouch, I thought that was the least interesting part ;) (Not novel and trivial...) 18:26:04 Hexstream1: There's some option to tar that allows you to rewrite paths when creating a tarball. 18:26:32 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cec4.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:38 -!- Hexstream1 is now known as Hexstream 18:26:49 hi 18:27:02 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:27:37 (For some reason my client was still showing "Hexstream".) 18:30:18 Hexstream: hmm. that's weird. haven't seen anything like that recently. 18:30:34 Hexstream: is there anything special about your setup? 18:30:38 (re the abcl error) 18:30:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:31:00 sacho_ [~sacho@90.154.214.110] has joined #lisp 18:31:15 -!- WordWow [~WordWow@adsl-76-233-38-184.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:31:43 ehu: I don't know, I don't think so, I installed SBCL, CCL, lispworks, ACL and clisp successfully. 18:32:22 The only thing I worry about a bit is that I'm using this "openjdk" stuff that's used by default on ubuntu, instead of... whatever the alternative is, "closedjdk"?.. 18:33:03 Hexstream: it's fine. The alternative is Oracle's 18:34:13 Hexstream: how did you build? using the Lisp build system? or Ant? 18:34:19 dlowe: Sounds closed indeed. Anyway, if openjdk is supposed to work then I don't know what the problem might be. 18:34:27 ehu: Ant, since it seemed much simpler. 18:34:46 it is. it's the system we all use for building abcl. 18:34:47 -!- sacho [~sacho@90.154.214.110] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:34:55 so that doesn't exactly explain your problem. 18:34:58 hmpf. 18:35:05 which Ubuntu version? 18:35:21 ehu: Linux dynamorph 2.6.32-34-generic #77-Ubuntu SMP Tue Sep 13 19:40:53 UTC 2011 i686 GNU/Linux 18:35:33 Oh yeah, I use LTS, which is "old"... 18:35:46 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:58 that shouldn't be much of an issue: we try not to depend on too new features. 18:36:30 I'll try compiling ABCL on my Debian system again to see if this exhibits the same problem. 18:36:36 I have Ubuntu 10.04 LTS Lucid Lynx. 18:37:51 locci [~Nessuno@unaffiliated/carlocci] has joined #lisp 18:38:30 H4ns [5b3d4884@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.72.132] has joined #lisp 18:39:46 tyson1 [~Ian@bas1-toronto06-2925211072.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:44:31 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 18:47:36 realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has joined #lisp 18:48:42 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:49:15 marsell [~marsell@120.18.214.61] has joined #lisp 18:49:22 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 18:49:40 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 18:50:02 -!- csdserver [~csdserver@76.177.111.55] has quit [Changing host] 18:50:02 csdserver [~csdserver@unaffiliated/csddesk] has joined #lisp 18:51:17 Take a look at this silly function: http://paste.lisp.org/+2P0W 18:51:54 The SBCL compiler bitches at line 13, saying that: doing signed word to integer coercion (cost 20) to "" 18:52:21 Why? 18:52:46 npat: SBCL needs a few bits for tagging... So unsigned-byte 32 is unlikely to help much. 18:53:02 Hexstream, yes I understand this 18:53:13 it's unlikely to help much _for global non-inlined calls and returns_ 18:53:24 otherwise, it's still likely to help much 18:53:35 Hexstream, fixnums are 29 bits long 18:53:41 akovalenko: Ah, ok. I'm an optimisation newb. 18:53:46 Which bit are you asking about, why is it coercing, why is it returning a value that needs coercing, or why is it bitching? 18:53:54 fixnums aren't 29 bits on my system :) 18:54:09 dlowe: You have a 62-bit-fixnum SBCL? 18:54:19 here's a nickel, kid, get yourself 30-odd more bits for your fixnums 18:54:33 nyef, Ok: 1) why is it bitching and 2) why it STOPS if I remove line 9 18:54:34 one should never ask why SBCL is bitching, but rather why it's silent (if it ever happens..) 18:54:54 Xach, I think I should! 18:55:21 nyef, I understand why it HAS to coerce 18:55:43 npat: you ask for speed, the compiler gives you reason why things might be slow. 18:55:45 nyef: 60 bit :p 18:55:48 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:56:09 dlowe: ... Not on SBCL, you don't. 18:56:16 * (log most-positive-fixnum 2) 18:56:17 60.0 18:56:25 is sbcl LYING? 18:56:32 No, you forgot the sign bit. 18:56:36 -!- sacho_ is now known as sacho 18:56:43 still not 62 bits :p 18:56:47 npat: normally, you either ignore a message like that, or declaim your function inline, or think if you really want to return a fixnum. SBCL's bitching is helpful here, but it's in no way mandatory to do something about it.. 18:57:03 dlowe: mine are 63 bit. 18:57:07 3 tag bits and a sign bit? 18:57:16 dlowe: say what you mean. integer-length is there for a reason! 18:57:23 ehu: 3 tags and an oddness bit. 18:57:23 drwho [~drwho@static-76-160-37-137.dsl.cavtel.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:27 Sure. You have an old SBCL, pre-wider-fixnums, and that jumps things from 61 to 63, but leaves 62 as a build-time-option if you want to hack up the compiler. 18:57:58 (And by "hack up the compiler", I mean "change the definition of n-fixnum-tag-bits to 2".) 18:58:12 akovalenko, I CAN'T return a fixnum 18:58:35 npat: Have you considered returning (VALUES)? 18:58:56 Hrm. Guess that doesn't really work. 18:59:01 nyef, please explain... 18:59:25 No, misconception on my part. You're clearly deliberately returning a value. 18:59:38 and ALSO: why it stops complaining if I remove line 9?? 18:59:41 npat: then don't worry about it. 18:59:57 in both cases the disassembled code is IDENTICAL 19:00:18 It stops complaining because you're no longer telling it that you know that the result will be a (signed-byte 32). 19:00:29 pkhuong, I guess I can always muffle the warning 19:00:38 It's not a warning, it's a note. 19:01:01 Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@188.132.10.30] has joined #lisp 19:01:02 nyef, what result? 19:01:04 What I've been wanting is a way to muffle the note for the toplevel definition, but not muffle it if the function is called inline. 19:01:13 BIGBOOMBA [a8674f4d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.168.103.79.77] has joined #lisp 19:01:29 The result from evaluating (AREF U 0), thus the result of the function. 19:01:56 npat: your declaration is less precise than what the compiler can infer. 19:02:17 vectors can be non-simple. 19:03:12 Now, what effect that has on the note emission logic, I don't care to try and understand. 19:03:22 pkhuong, so declaration 9 is superflous? The element-type is enough? 19:03:57 npat: yes. SBCL propagate type information in a bottom-up manner pretty efficiently. 19:04:48 Ok, a final one: Is there any difference between the "locally" declare in line 3 and the "declare" in line 2? 19:05:15 Will it be the same if I use just a single declare without the "locally" block 19:05:32 You have to provide information about arguments and external functions, but otherwise it'll do the obvious inference. Its weakness is with variables that are assigned. 19:05:39 hey guys, i think i used paste correctly :) 19:06:09 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:06:13 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-069.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:06:20 npat: there's a slight difference: without a locally, the optimization quality will also affect the argument parsing prologue. 19:06:25 It's usually what you want tohugh. 19:07:04 pkhuong, aaah. I was suspecting this. Nice to know 19:07:25 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:07:42 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 19:08:05 pkhuong, the same I guess goes for argument-type declarations (locally vs not) 19:08:27 locally for bound variables is fishy. 19:08:47 You usually want to declare at the binding site, at least if you're interested in performance. 19:09:29 (let ((x ...)) (locally (declare (type double-float x)) ...)) isn't enough to let me infer that X is always bound to a double float and can be stored in a FP register. 19:09:35 I suppose you don't know about MilTon the ML compiler that breaks all the rules (superior data-flow analysis) and beats OCalm in performance. 19:10:20 pkhuong, yes I understand this 19:10:53 Perhaps we will see better data-flow analysis in the next SBCL version. 19:11:22 Younder: What's keeping you from reaping the fame and glory? 19:11:23 pkhuong, one more: A declare after the argument list (without "locally") and a top-level declaim have the same effect? 19:11:41 they're independent. 19:11:41 BIGBOOMBA: you'll have to paste the url here yourself 19:12:01 pkhuong, is there any use in having both? 19:12:09 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125746 19:12:10 declare after the argument list is similar. declaim helps type propagation for other functions, but not representation. 19:12:19 tmh, I am working on my own language 'Formula' and it is taking all my time. 19:12:26 BIGBOOMBA: you are using a bad version of SBCL. Try upgrading or downgrading. 19:12:39 ah 19:12:43 bbsch [~bbs@c-67-173-0-18.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:59 CL is designed to allow runtime redefinition, so, except in a few circumstances, it's not possible to propagate type information across toplevel definitions. 19:13:19 BIGBOOMBA: Upgrading is the recommended way  this was a bug in sbcl 1.0.43 afair. 19:13:32 BIGBOOMBA: Which is quite old anyway. 19:14:02 (or a bug in clx that manifested itself with a particular sbcl version  whichever way, upgrading will help) 19:14:10 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:14:11 yeah, i'm just getting back into LISP, so i just fired up SLIME and didn't worry about how old anything was 19:14:29 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:14:35 McCLIM is pretty old. 19:14:39 declaim allows the programmer to explicitly do so. It can also be useful to enable more compile-time type checking. Since ftypes describe how the functions bound to that name should be *used*, it can't really be used to guide representation decision across full calls. 19:14:41 homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:14:44 pkhuong, ok I understand that you propagate type information to other functions you must have a top-level "declaim". But doesn't this also gives information for in-function handling of arguments (i.e. making the declare superfouous)? 19:15:09 -!- drwho [~drwho@static-76-160-37-137.dsl.cavtel.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:15:09 wbooze`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:15:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.34.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:33 npat: not in theory. The declaim describes usage of the function name. I could bind the same function to another name. 19:15:33 Xach, i'm really just trying to get a feel for using quicklisp and ASDF. i like pretty pictures so i chose a graphics library :P 19:15:52 npat: in practice, SBCL sometimes abuses the ftype declaration, but I wouldn't depend on it. 19:16:06 *derive-function-types* might be what you're looking for. 19:16:37 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-181-49.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:13 BIGBOOMBA: (mc)clim is not so much about "pretty pictures" than about "sophisticated user interfaces", with an emphasis on "sophisticated" 19:17:25 pkhuong, what I have observed (by naive experimentation) is that with declaim you get cross-function time checking at compile time, AND the same code (in the function) as if you had used "declare" for the arguments. At least for the simple cases I disassembled 19:17:42 H4ns, i like those too! 19:17:50 BIGBOOMBA: ok! 19:17:53 npat: that's arguably a (useful) bug in SBCL. 19:18:04 BIGBOOMBA: upgrade, quickload, go! 19:18:11 declaim, proclaim, and declare serve sort of the same function npat . Their uses overlap. 19:18:51 pkhuong, where can I find any info about *derive-function-types*? 19:19:20 Younder, in mysterious and sometimes frustratingly non-deterministic ways 19:19:21 M-. 19:19:53 npat, So I am not the only one bitten :) 19:21:23 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:22:50 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 19:23:21 pkhuong, yes I read the docstring... 19:23:42 is there philosophical significance to the sbcl installation process using the bourne shell? 19:23:50 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 19:24:04 BTW is there a way to force slime look for the SBCL source in /usr/sharte/sbcl-src/? 19:24:58 set your SYS logical host translations appropriately 19:24:59 npat: something like (setf (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") '(("SYS:SRC;**;*.*.*" #P"/usr/share/sbcl-src/**/*.*"))) 19:25:43 npat: Yeah, look at (LOGICAL-PATHNAME-TRANSLATIONS "SYS"), and know that it's an accessor function, and thus is subject to SETF. 19:25:54 npat: adding an item for "SYS:CONTRIB;**;*.*.*" may be useful too. 19:26:14 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 19:26:45 (sb-ext:sbcl-source-location-is #p"/path/to/foo/") 19:27:02 if only! 19:27:53 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2CF6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:29:02 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:02 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:29:02 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 19:31:25 Xach, Congrats, you have found a stub.. (which someone forgot about probably) 19:33:00 which stub? sbcl-source-location-is is an obvious feature request, not something that is already there. 19:33:52 *Xach* will submit a patch sometime 19:36:47 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-195-78.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:36:56 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@70.62.112.146] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:38:40 *Xach* wonders if something like that is culturally compatible with sbcl 19:39:51 Xach: could definitely work as a contrib, I think 19:40:42 I don't see anything desperately incompatible with (setf sb-ext:source-location) other than the incompatibility with source-location... 19:41:06 Xach: for sbcl-source-location-is, it's unobvious what it should do with old translations, especially if there is something like "SYS:SRC;COMPILER;**;*.*.*" /before/ the usual SYS:SRC entry.. 19:41:46 akovalenko: I picture this not for existing people who know how to set up LP translations, but for people who just want M-. to work. 19:41:51 akovalenko: true, though I've never ever ever ever ever done that 19:41:52 Without much fuss. 19:42:15 I'd be happy with documenting that the SYS logical host is how (setf sb-ext:sbcl-source-location) works 19:43:04 *Xach* adds it to his todo list 19:43:47 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 19:45:31 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:46:38 -!- BIGBOOMBA [a8674f4d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.168.103.79.77] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 19:50:13 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:51:28 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 19:52:31 benny [~benny@i577A27B0.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:19 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:55:55 What exactly does GETF return? Is it a value? If yes, how can it be used as the input to SETF? 19:56:34 Bahman: SETF is not a function. 19:56:56 Macro. 19:57:03 You're right 19:57:08 Bahman: it does not evaluate its arguments, so something like (setf (getf ...) ...) does not mean "use the return value of getf as input to setf", it means "do some magic" 19:57:28 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:30 (Some fairly well-specified magic, but magic nonetheless.) 19:57:42 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:57:56 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Quit: o7] 19:58:40 Xach: Thanks --though I didn't understand :-) 19:59:23 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 19:59:45 http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/variables.html <-- under "Assignment" might help 19:59:58 or "Generalized Assignment" 20:01:25 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:02:38 Xach: Thanks...now it makes more sense. 20:06:47 hiro3 [~hiro@softbank221093184002.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:33 MrUnagi [~mrunagi@252.sub-75-224-103.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:43 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 20:11:25 Hmmm. 20:11:39 *easyE* just digested generalized boolean. 20:12:05 Always something new to sample at the common Lisp table. 20:13:09 *Xach* wonders about militarized or radicalized booleans 20:13:32 So, what's the square root of NIL? 20:14:21 Kryztof: Do you know which kindly LispWorks guy was at the bar after the ECLM dinner? 20:15:06 -!- hiro3 [~hiro@softbank221093184002.bbtec.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:05 nyef: 5.15e-158 20:16:52 pkhuong: ... Are you sure it's not # ? 20:17:05 nyef: depends on how forcefully you ask. 20:17:14 Ah. Fair enough. 20:19:02 alternatively, 8200.0 20:19:27 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:39 ... So much easier to take the square root of a C boolean... 20:20:08 Xach: almost certainly Dave Fox 20:20:12 though Martin Simmons is also a kindly guy 20:20:25 Dave is the clean-shaven and short-heared one; Martin has a ponytail 20:20:31 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:20:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:20:46 funny, I am trying to turn my scattered notes into a blog to avoid the fear of planet.lisp deletion 20:21:31 "short-heared"? "short-haired" 20:21:46 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:55 -!- bbsch [~bbs@c-67-173-0-18.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bbsch] 20:23:07 Kryztof: thanks 20:23:35 Kryztof: unable to optimize HAIRY-LISPWORKS-GUY-REF, as SBCL would probably say... 20:23:40 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-26-222.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 20:25:23 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:26:09 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:27:44 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F77336.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:27:59 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:55 rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has joined #lisp 20:30:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:31:16 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Memento Mori] 20:32:33 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:42 frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust535.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:35:23 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust535.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:36:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has joined #lisp 20:41:30 Hmmm. Why is read-http-headers in Chunga instead of Hunchentoot? 20:41:38 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Memento Mori] 20:42:47 Because the MIME boundary is transmitted as a header? 20:43:00 ... or is that an rfc2388 detail? 20:44:01 italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-202-204.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:11 BIGBOOMBA [a8674f4d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.168.103.79.77] has joined #lisp 20:44:21 Dunno. 20:44:32 does anyone happen to have an example using pubsub with cl-redis? 20:45:06 Perhaps because both the server (Hunchentoot) and the client (Drakma) need the functionality. 20:45:48 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125749 20:46:01 looks like an error with darcs, which i know little about 20:46:18 BIGBOOMBA: consider using quicklisp instead. 20:46:35 i did use quicklisp! 20:46:48 i have mcclim loaded in SLIME 20:47:02 -!- homie`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:47:11 -!- wbooze`` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:47:14 H4ns: is the official version of Chunga on github now? 20:47:27 then i went to the mcclim wiki and it said to install with clbuild 20:47:39 BIGBOOMBA: mcclim docs are out of date. 20:49:08 ... were McCLIM docs ever -in- date? 20:49:17 but it still works, right? 20:49:19 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:49:29 BIGBOOMBA: how would you even be able to tell? 20:49:32 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:49:46 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:25 That is a bad attempt at a joke. I am not a mcclim fan. I don't think the current state is worth a lot of investigation time. 20:50:32 how did i wind up thinking that mcclim was viable...? 20:50:43 That is a good question. 20:50:59 also, clbuild is obsolete? 20:51:06 yes 20:51:25 -!- tyson1 [~Ian@bas1-toronto06-2925211072.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:51:26 okay, i just wandered down a dead end -_- 20:51:49 On the bright side, you learned something. 20:52:05 i was just trying to get a feel for doing "real" work in CL 20:52:16 using opc (other people's code) 20:52:43 That's not how we do things. Most of the time OPC is crap, so we implement our own version. 20:52:46 BIGBOOMBA: most of the real work i use is for processing data files from one form into another, or website stuff. i haven't seen a lot of gui-oriented projects. 20:52:47 so, the lesson here is: quicklisp and ASDF good, clbuild bad, ASDF-install bad 20:52:52 logand [~user@g231114027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:53:31 BIGBOOMBA: yes. 20:53:34 well, tmh, you have to interface with opc somehow, eventually 20:53:56 I was being facetious. 20:54:16 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-150-107.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:54:19 i thought you were serious! 20:54:24 CommonQT seems to be promising on the GUI front. cl-gtk2 used to work for me, but doesn't at the moment :( 20:54:29 There's also Ltk. 20:54:45 ltk just keeps working 20:54:49 People who get paid to write GUI CL apps seem to use CAPI fairly often. Or at least there are some high-profile applications that use it. 20:54:54 or so it seems 20:55:09 i'm not dead-set on doing something with a gui 20:55:10 Xach what applications? 20:55:12 I like CAPI, it is easy to use, works well. 20:55:33 -!- Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@188.132.10.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:55:34 kennyd: InspireData, Piano 20:55:46 i just wanted to move beyond self-contained toy programs that only run in the REPL and don't interact with the outside world 20:55:56 My client found the little interface pleasing, "That's how I want all of my programs to work" All I did was include lots of data validation and hints for the input. 20:56:11 -!- vpit3833 [~user@203.111.33.203] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:56:39 kennyd: sitegrinder 3, gigadsp, siglab 20:56:57 thanks 20:56:58 BIGBOOMBA: well, the CL world could use some improvements on the gui toolkit side. 20:57:07 BIGBOOMBA: that's true 20:57:15 BIGBOOMBA: you can keep "run in the repl" and still interact with the outside world. i do that rather a lot. 20:57:35 -!- Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.226.7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:57:38 I'm of the opinion, though, that unless you have a really good reason for creating a GUI at the OS level, you're better off just creating a web interface and passing the data to a lisp backend. I have a really good reason for creating the interface at the OS level, otherwise I wouldn't do it. 20:57:52 btw, what happened to mcclim? It's not so long ago that it was developed with enthusiasm 20:58:00 -!- ubuntu [~ubuntu@94-225-100-177.access.telenet.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:07 ... it's been a couple of years, surely? 20:58:14 okay, forget graphics/gui 20:58:26 *prxq* .oO( years? ) 20:58:29 blackwol` [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 20:58:29 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:31 how time passes 20:58:35 The Man hired all the mcclim hackers? 20:58:40 heh 20:58:43 i love mcclim 20:58:48 if i want to process a text file into something more readable, or pull info from it, what libraries do i want to use? 20:58:50 BIGBOOMBA: not necessarily. Ltk works, and you can do lots of stuff with it 20:58:53 heh. Make a universal app which runs a qt/webkit frame, pointing to your lisp webapp's ui. Never have to write another GUI. :) 20:58:55 -!- pjb is now known as Guest71767 20:58:59 or do i not even need any libraries? 20:59:02 BIGBOOMBA: or you can ask homie how he got mcclim to work 20:59:05 BIGBOOMBA: I'm a big fan of meta-sexp 20:59:17 -!- Guest71767 is now known as pjb` 20:59:20 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:59:25 meta-sexp, is that a library that i can get with quicklisp and ASDF? 20:59:29 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 20:59:37 BIGBOOMBA: you might not. there are lots of tools for parsing or pattern matching. i use cl-ppcre often, and cl-csv, and others. 20:59:42 gigamonkey: yes. you got patches? please send a pull request 20:59:46 well the keybinding stuff seems to be rigid hardcoded in mcclim and most other stuff too, so there's no real interface to it to alter things from outside..... 20:59:46 BIGBOOMBA: You can load it with ASDF, not sure about quicklisp. 20:59:58 web interfaces are terrible. why would you want to inflict that on your users if you didn't have to? 21:00:00 meta-sexp is in quicklisp. you can find out with (ql:system-apropos "meta-sexp") 21:00:01 *tmh* is ashamed to admit he still does not use quicklisp 21:00:19 dlowe: quick and dirty? 21:00:26 but apart from that if you know what lies where, and get the hunk about the right mod1 mod2 mod3 mod4 mod5 setting with xmodmap or so etc...you get a go with mcclim 21:00:29 tmh: I do not like it. 21:00:39 dlowe: Heh, well played. 21:01:00 <|3b|> dlowe: i'd rather a web interface than a fat client that doesn't run on my machine :p 21:01:00 i just failed to understand how it works and i'm not understanding how it works truly....just on the verge..... 21:01:45 suppose all i wanted was a program that takes a text file as input and creates a text file as output; do i even need any external libraries? 21:01:54 BIGBOOMBA: depends on the processing. 21:01:56 BIGBOOMBA: it depends on what you want to do. 21:02:07 H4ns: no patches yet. Just curious. The docs still say it lives elsewhere. 21:02:07 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:02:12 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:02:13 So I guess I could patch that. ;-) 21:02:15 |3b|: I think the costs of web interfaces are consistently under-estimated, and the costs of writing a native client is overestimated 21:02:16 BIGBOOMBA: strictly speaking, no. but if you want to build on the work of others when it applies directly to the task at hand, libraries ahoy! 21:02:45 BIGBOOMBA: if you want to do something like "change every instance of 'foo' to 'bar' in each line in a file", you can do that without a library pretty easily. 21:02:51 dlowe: in cl, it seems the problem is the lack of good free gui frameworks 21:03:02 gigamonkey: i'll check back with edi 21:03:04 heh 21:03:04 dlowe: My native client doesn't really apply to CAPI, it is a reasonably cross-platform API. 21:03:15 *native client argument* 21:03:20 there is also gtk-server ;-) 21:03:30 basic question: the CL concept of interacting with the outside world is that all input/output is thought of as streams, right? 21:03:41 BIGBOOMBA: er, no? 21:03:56 heh, i'm confused then. i'm getting that from CLtL 21:04:03 As much as the C concept of interacting with the OS is all pointers. 21:04:04 <|3b|> dlowe: i'm more concerned with that 'a' native client part, if you only wrote 1, i've got at least 3 devices left out :p 21:04:18 well, that's what is *standardized*. Quite a lot can be done this way. 21:04:23 tmh: that isn't true? :-O 21:04:29 ;-) 21:04:34 |3b|: there's a huge industry in the web space dealing with incompatibilities between different browser versions and capabilities 21:04:36 all common-lispy here over.....meeeeep 21:04:41 lol 21:04:55 |3b|: CAPI covers Winders, MAC OS X, and Linux pretty well. 21:05:03 prxq: Hah! 21:05:03 actually, C model is that everything is either a function call or MMIO 21:05:15 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-232.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:05:15 <|3b|> tmh: so no luck for my maemo and webos devices? :p 21:05:50 http://www.cs.cmu.edu/Groups/AI/html/cltl/clm/node186.html#SECTION002600000000000000000 21:05:50 |3b|: Nope, but it's lisp, spend the afternoon rolling your own. ;-) 21:05:58 that's where i got the stream model idea 21:06:00 Bahman [~Bahman@2.144.226.7] has joined #lisp 21:06:05 |3b|: I didn't say there wasn't a place for web interfaces. I just think it's overused. 21:06:31 |3b|: you have a pre? 21:06:38 <|3b|> madnificent: touchpad 21:06:43 ah 21:06:49 *madnificent* couldn't catch one 21:07:08 BIGBOOMBA: portably, yeah. All the I/O happens on streams. 21:07:18 vpit3833 [~user@203.111.33.203] has joined #lisp 21:07:23 madnificent: you can get one for $150 if you sign up as a developer, apparently 21:08:07 so that means that if i want to do text processing i should think of the input and output as character streams? 21:08:24 antifuchs: if you can still catch one, i can't order from the us due to shipping costs 21:08:27 *easyE* waves to antifuchs. 21:08:34 hey easyE! 21:08:48 'sup in Cali? 21:09:07 still standing! I recently learned about the hayward fault and how it's overdue for a very destructive shake 21:09:10 so yay (-: 21:09:15 antifuchs: but thanks for the advice, i am/was a webos dev, so it would've worked out. 21:09:45 antifuchs: something like that. This Oklahma quake, I swear is from all the oil and gas they sucked out... 21:10:13 -!- BIGBOOMBA [a8674f4d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.168.103.79.77] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:10:13 BIGBOOMBA: if you want to think about it any other way, write a layer. 21:10:14 mother earth demands we replace the fluids in her skin 21:10:33 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-218-233.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:10:49 Hmm, does anyone here use clg? 21:11:14 It has some (in-package :asdf) bits that are now breaking. 21:11:30 Hrm... clg? I tried to use that at one point. 21:12:07 *easyE* breaks for a USENET reader to check c.l.l. 21:13:14 sourceforge...why are they always from sourceforge? 21:13:21 *Xach* bangs head on CVS manual 21:13:45 Heh. 21:13:47 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 21:14:10 last time I tried it seemed nicer than cl-gtk2, but I gave up on writing GUIs 21:14:59 gigamonkey: updated the chunga docs to point to the right repository. 21:15:41 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-iwogrijluoovnzhd] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:18:36 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:18:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:19:15 clg also uses sb-int:featurep freely 21:19:40 it's causing a clash with asdf::featurep, due to the (in-package :asdf) bits. 21:19:42 -!- MrUnagi [~mrunagi@252.sub-75-224-103.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:49 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 21:22:08 -!- branch [~branch@178.155.223.232] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:22:40 Using SB-INT:ANYTHING is a bug. 21:23:06 Being IN-PACKAGE :ASDF is probably ALSO a bug. 21:24:08 aha 21:25:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@204.38.4.80] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:25:30 (That is, SB-INT is clearly marked as being private to SBCL, and being IN-PACKAGE to a package that you don't "own" is bad style and just asking for trouble.) 21:26:01 clg didn't actually work! it was just a subsidiary system, clg-tools, that built. The rest requires some fragile setup to build that wasn't working before. 21:26:04 marsell_ [~marsell@120.18.143.214] has joined #lisp 21:26:15 So losing clg-tools is no big deal. 21:26:18 *Xach* sleeps easier tonight 21:27:34 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.214.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:27:35 -!- marsell_ is now known as marsell 21:27:54 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-26-222.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:30 H4ns: do you think the choice to use alists for headers in Hunchentoot was due to a belief that the'd be faster than hash tables for the nummer of headers involved or because they were easy to deal with? 21:29:43 grouzen_ [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has joined #lisp 21:30:30 gigamonkey: i can't say really. my guess is that edi chose them for ease of handling 21:37:56 dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 21:39:44 It is convenient to just print the alist while testing. 21:40:25 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:42:51 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.117] has joined #lisp 21:44:48 -!- bsod1 [~sinan@88.240.135.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 261 seconds] 21:46:04 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:00 H4ns: but otherwise indeed, a-list are often faster than hash tables. 21:48:59 -!- H4ns [5b3d4884@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.72.132] has quit [Quit: slp] 21:49:08 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-24-218-248.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:49:14 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:14 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:25 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:51:27 -!- duomo [~duomo@d90h240.public.simons-rock.edu] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 21:52:08 -!- gensym` [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:52:54 -!- ldlework [~dlacewell@c-67-184-74-34.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:53:40 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.122.231.33] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:54:37 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:55:40 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-171-177.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:46 gensym` [~user@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 21:58:14 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-175-225.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:58:29 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:59:00 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:59:00 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:38 -!- dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:59:49 dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 22:00:02 -!- dl` is now known as dl 22:02:15 pjb: What is a good reference describing the trade-off between using a-lists and hash-tables? I generally use hash-tables because I think they are easier to work with. 22:02:55 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:03:45 have a look at com.informatimago.common-lisp.cesarum.dictionary:adaptating-dictionary 22:04:25 Thanks 22:06:41 pjb: how does that translate to an url? 22:06:49 ldlework [~dlacewell@c-67-184-74-34.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:07:09 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:07:11 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-vhmexwssmikltigv] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:07:18 https://gitorious.org/com-informatimago/com-informatimago/blobs/master/common-lisp/cesarum/dictionary.lisp 22:08:20 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:25 syntax highlighting on gitorious seems borked for CL 22:09:54 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75cec4.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:10:30 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:10:41 pjb: So, 10 is the limit, is that based on theory or profiling? 22:11:00 By default. It's actually determined automatically. 22:11:14 Last time I benchmarked the limit varied from 5 to 35. 22:11:18 pjb: Ok, will look some more. 22:12:06 Ah, it's TODO... Not implemented yet :-( 22:12:38 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has joined #lisp 22:12:53 That makes me feel better, I couldn't find the code. That looks like an optimization that I don't need to worry about. I'll just stick with hash-tables. 22:12:56 Ok, so on implementations such as sbcl it was 5, and on implementations such as clisp, it was 35. I need to implement the automatic determination... 22:13:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:51 Further, the space requirements of hash tables are much greater than for alist. If you have a lot of small dictionaries, that may be a good reason to stay with alists. 22:14:42 pjb: eh? If space is a premium, you shouldn't be using lists. 22:15:06 Unless they're small :-) 22:15:30 vectors will be even smaller. 22:16:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:16:33 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 22:17:13 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:19:26 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:19:39 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:21:32 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:22:48 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-139-160.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:30 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.114.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:25:22 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-184-223.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:25:53 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 22:29:28 * gorgeous * 22:38:35 WordWow [~WordWow@adsl-76-233-38-184.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:35 WordWow2 [~WordWow@adsl-76-233-38-184.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:38 -!- WordWow [~WordWow@adsl-76-233-38-184.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:39:47 What was the slime-net-coding-system trick for getting utf-8 instead of latin-1 between SBCL and SLIME? 22:41:18 (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) 22:41:33 emacs side? 22:41:36 yep 22:41:52 I can't recall, but it might not be enough for slime-connect. Then :coding-system argument for swank:create-server should be given on swank side. 22:42:07 hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:33 Ugh. There's no handshaking so that it only needs setting in one place? 22:42:44 Oh well. It's a start. Thanks. 22:42:55 nyef: Sorry, one other thing I have in .emacs.d/init.el is: (set-language-environment "UTF-8") 22:43:01 nyef: might or might not matter. 22:43:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.140.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:47:02 iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:38 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:52 -!- logand [~user@g231114027.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:50:25 nyef: swank depends on LOCALE, iirc. 22:51:01 ... not set? 22:51:26 And LANG is en_US.utf8. 22:52:39 *akovalenko* couldn't see anything locale-dependent for swank-sbcl 22:53:38 akovalenko: the magic of abstraction ;) It may very well have changed since the last time I had a non-utf8 box. 22:53:53 find-external-format-or-lose has an intreresting "stub" in definterface, which turns "iso-latin-1-unix" into :default external format. This may depend on locale, sure, but I have no idea if it's actually used anywhere 22:55:31 anyway, it's not "select locale coding as wire coding", it's "hope for latin1" 22:58:17 nyef: slime recently switched to an all-binary protocol that's always utf-8. 22:58:51 "recently" == "right after the latest quicklisp update" 22:59:25 Joy. So my best bet is to wait for another quicklisp update, and then rebuild my environment completely? 22:59:46 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:07 I'd recommend to get ready for this by pulling slime from CVS and testing it. 23:01:48 -!- tmh [4b1be7fa@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 23:03:35 did i bundle a busted slime? 23:03:59 *Xach* has nightmares about that 23:04:22 Don't you have automatized tests? 23:04:53 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:05:08 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.224] has joined #lisp 23:05:17 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:05:41 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@94.144.63.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:08:24 pjb: The test is "Does it build?" Swank usually builds. 23:09:43 Xach: current quicklisp's slime has no radical changes, iirc. And the CVS version with a new protocol, which I'm using now, seems to work perfectly on SBCL. 23:10:39 there was [only] once a busted slime in ql, last summer or may be spring.. 23:11:45 *akovalenko* hopes that all developers will acquire a habit of "quicklisp freeze" eventually. 23:12:20 *all vcs-head-with-no-realeases project developers 23:13:18 akovalenko: I'm planning on simply putting "stable" or "quicklisp" branch in my VCS :) 23:26:01 ccl-logbot [~ccl-logbo@setf.clozure.com] has joined #lisp 23:26:01 23:26:01 -!- names: ccl-logbot syrinx_ mjonsson WordWow xyxu iwillig hagish am0c wbooze homie realitygrill mathrick karswell mishoo_ __class__ ldlework lnostdal_ gensym` s0ber kpreid grouzen_ marsell Bike Amadiro vpit3833 Bahman ltriant pjb blackwol` italic rgrinberg Ralith ehu AntiSpamMeta benny TristamWrk stepnem Kryztof oudeis askatasuna locci oconnore sacho mrSpec scharan loz akovalenko froggey Younder Adrinael lbc SegFaultAX|work gffa wishbone4 Jeanne-Kamikaze tritchey 23:26:01 -!- names: fe[nl]ix gkeith_lt MoALTz dru1d juniorroy bzzbzz ikki fmeyer rtoym joast Qworkescence slyrus tsuru Houl kennyd gtrak xan_ Vivitron nicdev_ Intensity _3b PuffTheMagic Joreji ihyoyoung daedric theos galdor foom csdserver Em |3b| Xach blumbri Tristam X-Scale xjrn pkhuong eMBee Kovensky derekv arbscht jimmyrcom pok_ tychoish jrockway Nshag redline6561 egn mornfall finnrobi jeekl ruediger peddie rtoyg acieroid SHODAN kanru johs cmbntr SpitfireWP sanjoyd 23:26:01 -!- names: madnificent naryl wtetzner MjrTom dmiles_afk The_third_man abeaumont ecraven parabolize ybit lemoinem levi oGMo quasisane Nisstyre tali713 petter``` buhman Pepe_ spacebat C-Keen mal jiacobucci anonus kruft djanatyn hugod psilord Yuuhi`` shachaf chrnybo` setmeaway2 guaqua aoh tessier rainyrhy_away antoszka pinterface1 Mandus ace4016 Jasko Dodek sellout daniel_ ``Erik superflit Fade schoppenhauer cpt_nemo antifuchs jlaire markskilbeck ve cmatei wormwood Patzy 23:26:01 -!- names: rootzlevel ljos flip214 insomniaSalt madsy __main__ mtd__ eno churib McMAGIC--Copy cataska el-maxo SidH_ knob kloeri jamesstanley freiksenet z1l0g Quadrescence BlankVerse otakutomo easyE dnjaramba jayne araujo ski_ Salamander orangejuice quackv4 Odin- frozencemetery Jasko2 cnl dfox zenlunatic billstclair Euthy` k9quaint whoops troydm loke prip Bucciarati Oddity qsun npat tvaalen EyesIsServer hyde____ austinh Demosthenes cmm cods natesm macrobat surrounder 23:26:01 -!- names: jsarrel allandee peterhil theBlackDragon maxm- ch077179 xok wccoder kruhft Zhivago BlastHardcheese sshirokov tomaw z0d elliottjohnson erg gemelen felipe yan_ albino df_aldur yahooooo larva rsynnott literal Borbus guther rotty MikeSeth devhost eli herbieB_ a7p tty234 zbigniew hyoyoung CallToPower Ober clop2 phadthai mgr klutometis sepisultrum kleppari adeht les scode micro__ vhost- j_king _krappie_ daimrod Axioplase_ Khisanth lonstein derrida sbryant jesse 23:26:01 -!- names: wolgo OliverUv schme phryk foocraft cpape lusory cYmen_ initself p_l hyko wormphlegm muep Iceland_jack Tordek df Neronus dsp_ rabite koollman MasseR Zephyrus clog felideon Jabberwockey xristos PissedNumlock dRbiG dodecahedron frodef bigjust Aisling StrmSrfr Saeren housel zakwilson tempire kjellkt morphling Obfuscate Guest1006 boyscared luis ineiros_ GeneralMaximus nuba CrazyEddy deepfire limetree_ kpal DrForr dcrawford bfein pokes ramus jsnell fmu 23:26:01 -!- names: samebchase CaZe djinni` vsync inklesspen 23:27:26 -!- hagish [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:28:13 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:13 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:28:13 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 23:28:45 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:34:45 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:36:19 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:36:34 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-101-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:32 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has joined #lisp 23:41:48 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 23:42:43 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:14 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 23:47:55 ehine1 [~ericyoda@rrcs-72-43-70-106.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:48:16 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:49:09 -!- WordWow [~WordWow@adsl-76-233-38-184.dsl.austtx.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:54 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 23:53:56 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:58:42 -!- locci [~Nessuno@unaffiliated/carlocci] has quit []