00:00:18 mishoo [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has joined #lisp 00:00:20 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:01:15 rtoyg: I've been thinking how to start implementing a Numpy style iteration into Matlisp with writing tests along the way as not to break anything. Maybe the best route would be to make some real-ndarray and complex-ndarray classes inherit from standard-matrix and then inherit the matrix classes from those. Eventually the matrix classes should only differ for matrix-multiplication and such... But at first this helps converting functio 00:01:15 ns to use an iterator only when they are tested to work. 00:02:24 I've been also thinking of porting some tests from Numpy. I guess Python license is compatible with MIT? 00:03:17 -!- Guest30207 is now known as Quadrescence 00:03:27 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@71-215-124-37.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:03:27 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:05:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 00:05:47 One of the main reasons I want to do this is to be able to easily to do operations with matrices and scalars by converting (broadcasting in Numpy parlour) the scalar into a "ndarray" which does not move the index between iterations. The same applies for matrix and vector operations, only then the vector is broadcasted to a matrix the same way. 00:06:29 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 00:07:03 udzinari` [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 00:07:49 Ie. use array programming 00:09:12 Neronus: You should also be able to do (burgled-batteries:defpyfun "dir" (object)) (dir thing). 00:09:17 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:10:35 Btw, has anyone ideas on how to use or implement arrays (as in Haskell monad generalization) in Lisp? Cells kind of does a similar thing, but does not enforce the types and does not enable to use the data-flows as composed functions. 00:13:11 peterhil: make-array ? 00:13:42 Sorry, I meant Arrow, not array 00:13:43 :-) 00:14:02 oh 00:14:03 superflit_ [~superflit@71-208-212-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:09 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:14:10 wasn't there a recent post on monads on plo? 00:14:28 waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has joined #lisp 00:14:30 plo? 00:14:33 planet.lisp.org 00:14:35 oh 00:14:43 but you're in it for the type system, right? 00:14:45 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:07 Yeas, that would help 00:15:17 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-156-49.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:15:17 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 00:15:52 I'm not familiar with the construct, but I know a thing or two about setting up clever type-system hacks in SBCL... 00:16:34 I just read a good introduction: http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Understanding_arrows#.2A.2A.2A 00:17:17 -!- gtrak [~gtrak```@pool-173-67-58-11.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17:52 It has nice diagrams even to help grasp the concept. 00:18:03 gtrak [~gtrak```@pool-173-67-58-11.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:18 So... you want type information propagation in function composition? 00:19:25 It seems the type system isn't strictly necessary, but a cps style transform is. 00:19:36 Yes. 00:19:54 -!- MjrTom [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has quit [Disconnected by services] 00:19:55 MjrTom_ [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has joined #lisp 00:19:58 pinterface: Can i submit a bug report somewhere? 00:20:09 -!- MjrTom_ is now known as MjrTom 00:20:11 I have an idea of having users compose functions graphically to make new virtual instruments. 00:20:11 -!- bhyde_ [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 00:20:27 And a type system would really help there... 00:20:45 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:21:06 Or modify how the existing work. 00:22:05 Neronus: Sadly, no bugtracker set up yet. But you can e-mail me directly, or the list, and I'll be sure to take a look at it. 00:22:52 ehebert [~user@c-66-30-9-243.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:14 pinterface: Never mind, it's not reproducable right now. 00:24:17 And I think it would also help myself to reason about how to handle modulation and effects for collections of frequencies. 00:25:07 Neronus: Oh, sure, hit one of the harder sort of bugs to track down! ;) 00:25:58 And to generally explore things... 00:26:59 I'm sure I'm doing something horrible to the python interpreter :) 00:27:53 -!- lanthan [~ze@pD9FEB0BB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:28:07 I'm currently looking for a way to easily and automatically expose attributes and methods of an object. But it is 01:30 here and tomorrow is a working day. So, more fun for the weekend. Good night :) 00:28:28 That's on the TODO list. :) 00:28:57 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 00:29:39 neat 00:32:13 good night Neronus 00:33:42 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:37:08 Btw, I realized the reason for the other method in Numpy being so fast is because %timeit takes best of several loops and I use memoization... 00:39:15 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 00:39:24 And I also realized the time is 2.38 here, and I should also go to sleep. So good night everyone! 00:39:49 2.38! 00:40:23 Yeah, last saturday I just slept whole day... I really should get into a more regular rhythm and get more sleep... 00:40:24 Xach: I think that's around 2:23. 00:40:25 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:39 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:47 natesm [~pelican@nate.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:48 I thought I had my computers clock synced with ntp? 00:44:56 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:45:31 peterhil: I think the joke was that 2.38 could be read as (+ 2 (* 0.38 60)) 00:46:44 Oh, I'm obviously too tired. :-) 00:46:51 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:49:37 lanthan [~ze@pD9FEB98C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:30 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.207] has joined #lisp 01:00:35 -!- Guest4207 [~Kron@69.166.22.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15:48 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:47 nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.178.68] has joined #lisp 01:18:29 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:19:08 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-145-24.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:20:35 Bike` [~Glossina@71-214-110-173.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:39 -!- Bike` is now known as Bike 01:21:45 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.220.143] has joined #lisp 01:28:24 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:39 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:34:42 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-95-122-110.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:35:00 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:38:06 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-49-162.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 01:38:48 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:08 -!- askatasuna is now known as the_artist 01:40:12 -!- the_artist is now known as askatasuna 01:43:47 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 01:46:23 dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:49 srnty [~srnty@207.62.237.106] has joined #lisp 01:47:30 darkf [~darkf_dix@unaffiliated/darkf] has joined #lisp 01:50:45 -!- dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:56:04 -!- Guest34174 is now known as xristos 01:57:03 -!- srnty [~srnty@207.62.237.106] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 01:57:20 srnty [~srnty@207.62.237.106] has joined #lisp 01:58:43 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-206-236.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:59:31 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-zmklbbjrtvygtths] has joined #lisp 02:02:56 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-120-203.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:04:19 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:04:35 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-zmklbbjrtvygtths] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:13:34 mburke [~max@S0106000c41f2f3de.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:13 millerti [~millerti@76-232-38-36.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:15:06 I have a dumb question -- is there a way to introspect CLOS objects in the REPL? (SBCL) 02:15:16 (inspect object) 02:15:32 that's pretty much the best thing ever 02:15:33 thanks! 02:16:23 mburke: do you use slime? 02:16:49 no, I use a hacked up version of Limp 02:17:02 ah. slime has a neat inspector too. 02:17:25 superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:18:24 Xach: it doesn't seem to be able to inspect an instance from its presentation in the REPL... 02:25:19 C-x C-v C-i? 02:25:40 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:24 C-c I 02:27:29 C-h w slime-inspect RET 02:28:13 ya.. 02:28:17 C-h w slime-inspect-presentation-at-point RET 02:29:27 And how do you justify the non-generic user interface? 02:29:49 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B68E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:17 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B305.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:33:15 I won't justify. If I only have REPL then I would use #'inspect ... just a respond to `how to access the neat inspector in slime' :) 02:33:59 kenanb_ [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 02:34:19 -!- kenanb_ [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:34 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 02:39:15 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:16 kenanb_ [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 02:39:18 -!- kenanb_ [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Client Quit] 02:41:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.207] has joined #lisp 02:43:14 tsuru``` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-29-234.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:32 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d1a3c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:44:53 -!- tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-98-87-44-78.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:47:22 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:49:55 -!- udzinari` [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:51:43 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 02:53:00 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-35.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:05 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:53:37 Xach: i got a tattoo of an ancient greek symbol (the god Ares). But i also want to do a Lambda somewhere else someday. 02:55:15 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:56:32 I suggest the tongue. 02:56:50 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 02:57:30 Zhivago: hah 02:58:23 Zhivago: i'm thinking elsewhere on the arm that has the Ares symbol: http://imageshack.us/f/694/dtoarestattoo800.jpg/ 02:58:35 I knew a fellow who split the end of his tongue using fishing line. 02:58:38 whoa. 03:00:24 i wonder if i could add the lambda above or below sort of like a cartouche 03:00:45 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:01:50 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:06:23 -!- chenbing` [~user@125.122.211.164] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:06:53 -!- arstoien [~user@c-98-229-29-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:08:38 has anyone else gotten lisp tattoos? 03:09:10 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176123457.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:10:19 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:10:25 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:18:50 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has joined #lisp 03:18:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@62-84-51-137.customers.almanet.kz] has quit [Changing host] 03:18:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 03:21:48 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:23:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hucgvfbczhvftrns] has joined #lisp 03:27:22 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:36 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 03:28:28 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:29:55 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: superflit] 03:31:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-173.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:33:07 superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:29 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #lisp 03:39:00 chenbing` [~user@125.122.211.164] has joined #lisp 03:39:51 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@cpe-74-64-109-53.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:40:48 -!- marsell [~marsell@101.116.57.104] has quit [Quit: marsell] 03:41:20 You could get "eval" across on set of knuckles. 03:41:32 -!- mburke [~max@S0106000c41f2f3de.vc.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 03:42:16 Then if you had a lambda ring, you could punch people in the face with it like the phantom. 03:46:25 punch people in the face.... 03:47:49 -!- tali713 [~tali713@c-75-72-220-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:48:23 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:49:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:52:05 -!- lanthan [~ze@pD9FEB98C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:55:02 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:56:39 -!- syrinx_ is now known as mrderp 03:57:08 -!- mrderp is now known as syrinx_ 03:59:38 -!- srnty [~srnty@207.62.237.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:03:50 -!- el-maxo [~max@p57A569BC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:03:57 el-maxo [~max@p57A563F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:36 Zhivago: cool :) 04:06:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:06:39 -!- H4ns [5b3d467f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.70.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 04:07:41 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[~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:33:00 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hucgvfbczhvftrns] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:26 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:34:19 srnty [~srnty@adsl-99-36-74-131.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:46 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 04:41:50 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.76] has joined #lisp 04:41:51 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.76] has quit [Changing host] 04:41:51 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:47:21 -!- millerti [~millerti@76-232-38-36.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: millerti] 04:47:44 -!- srnty [~srnty@adsl-99-36-74-131.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:48:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:48:55 yates [~yates@cpe-66-25-60-51.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:49:19 is an s-expression a list? 04:49:26 Sometimes. 04:49:32 when is it not? 04:49:39 When it is not a list. 04:49:48 Or when it is an atom, if you prefer. 04:50:03 for example? 04:50:08 10 04:50:25 so 10 is an s-expression? 04:52:39 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 04:53:20 Zhivago: ? 04:54:06 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-htfeagtxdsbwlnjr] has joined #lisp 04:54:13 what does "s-expression" stand for? 04:54:30 i cannot find it in the hyperlisp glossary 04:54:55 symbolic expression 04:55:27 welfijji [46b3b291@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.178.145] has joined #lisp 04:55:50 Hi, when I pretended to type with a lisp in here many months ago, why did someone mention "2/10?" 04:55:57 ehebert: neither "symbolic expression" nor "s-expression" is in the hyperlisp glossary - is there another name for it? 04:56:23 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:56:46 .w hyperlisp 04:56:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.133.55] has joined #lisp 04:56:47 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.133.55] has quit [Changing host] 04:56:47 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 04:57:53 i have not seen a definition of s-expressions 04:58:27 pcl speaks of them in chapter 4, but talks of their elements and not their definition proper 04:59:33 Well? 04:59:44 nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.189.3] has joined #lisp 04:59:55 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 05:00:01 So I pretended to talk with a "lithp" and was given a 2/10. what gives? 05:00:19 welfijji: i'm a lisp amateur myself, but they may have been giving an example of a numeric representation 05:00:43 i believe lisp has a rational representation type 05:01:47 Zhivago: are you in the habit of aborting important thought processes mid-stream? 05:02:04 yates: http://www-formal.stanford.edu/jmc/recursive.pdf 05:02:40 yates: Are you in the habit of practicing belligerant illiteracy? 05:02:45 -!- welfijji [46b3b291@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.178.145] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 05:03:05 okwhif [46b3b291@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.179.178.145] has joined #lisp 05:03:29 No. 05:03:33 sure is troll in here tonight 05:04:43 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:04:57 yates: Glad to hear it. 05:05:06 Zhivago: rhetorical question: has your behavior with me helped or hindered? 05:05:25 connection FUCKED up! 05:05:48 Am I still here? Hope so. 05:05:56 yates: You do not appear to have become less stupid yet. 05:06:13 Now, why did I get a 2/10 when I tried to "lithp" in this chatroom this summer? 05:07:39 Zhivago: my, that's quite an ego you have. 05:07:59 Does Emacs has mode display cutting or clipboard like Dired mode? 05:08:35 yates: Please look up "ego". 05:10:33 Zhivago: since i'm sure your definition is the only one that matters, why don't you save us all time and provide it directly? 05:10:51 yates: I wish you to become less stupid. 05:11:16 Zhivago: i'm impressed with your vocabulary, too 05:12:36 ehebert: thank you - seems that's the best solution to my question. 05:13:57 -!- chenbing` [~user@125.122.211.164] has left #lisp 05:14:01 -!- yates [~yates@cpe-66-25-60-51.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 05:14:22 chenbing` [~user@125.122.211.164] has joined #lisp 05:14:53 just a test,ignore 05:15:22 -!- ehebert [~user@c-66-30-9-243.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:15:34 -!- darkf [~darkf_dix@unaffiliated/darkf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:17:00 -!- okwhif is now known as Jinaxxuh 05:18:15 chenbing`: how can we ignore you when you are actually raising the signal-to-noise ratio in here ;-) 05:18:50 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:19:38 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 05:20:16 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:23:51 wolfpython [~wolf@221.226.209.42] has joined #lisp 05:25:47 H4ns [5b3d4d12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.77.18] has joined #lisp 05:27:38 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449448.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:28:16 I an not sure the conection is live 05:28:23 am 05:28:32 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 05:28:32 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 05:28:45 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 05:30:23 -!- Guest59099 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:32:39 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:32:55 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 05:34:03 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:34:52 Guest66977 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 05:35:43 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Client Quit] 05:35:45 topeak [~topeak@123.114.127.71] has joined #lisp 05:35:55 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 05:36:29 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@221.226.209.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:36:56 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 05:39:17 anybody know how to make a blocking socket in iolib? 05:40:05 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:40:25 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 05:40:34 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:41:51 easyE [gUYCcRSeM3@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:43 -!- Guest66977 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:44:29 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:48:31 mtd_ [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 05:57:20 -!- Guest43544 [~quassel@bas2-toronto61-2925081504.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:57:27 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:57:27 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-218-135.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:58:09 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 06:04:22 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6-rc2] 06:05:45 lanthan_ [~ze@pD9E3AF8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:15 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176123457.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:25 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@pD9E3AF8B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:15:31 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 06:15:33 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 06:15:33 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 06:17:25 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - 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New: Hunchentoot 1.2.1, CMUCL 20c, ABCL 1.0.0, SBCL 1.0.52, R.I.P John McCarthy. 07:31:47 -!- theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:27 agumonkey [~dummy@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 07:33:47 nostoi [~nostoi@196.Red-95-121-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:05 theos [~theos@unaffiliated/theos] has joined #lisp 07:35:21 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@static062038158100.dsl.hol.gr] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:35:53 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:38:12 under slime-sbcl-emacs-debian environment,how to configure .emacs set up pathname so I can eval "(load 'xxx.lisp') from context directory?damned sbcl pathname 07:39:26 alesguzik [~alesguzik@195.222.85.160.altoros.com] has joined #lisp 07:39:48 -!- alesguzik [~alesguzik@195.222.85.160.altoros.com] has quit [Client Quit] 07:39:49 chenbing`: when you use slime ,cd command to change directory, or slime C-c ~ command in lisp-mode buffer (to set up current directory and package for the visited file), it should work as expected 07:41:46 ok,thanks,let me a try.I also wonder how to deploy in product level?I am a lisp newbie 07:42:23 chenbing`: you may also use C-c C-k in the lisp-mode buffer, so the file you're editing will be automatically compiled and loaded from the right place 07:43:14 H4ns paste me a clisp set for M-, for code insight,I also confused.http://paste.lisp.org/display/124916 07:44:55 -!- mtd_ [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:45:00 sbcl manual specification http://www.sbcl.org/manual/index.html#Pathnames about pathname has relationship with my question? 07:46:53 chenbing`: you'll have to write ASDF system definitions for your code sooner or later (that's for automatic recompilation of stale files, for loading libraries used by your project, compiling them when needed..). You'd better start using ASDF _before_ you deploy anything... 07:46:56 Lisp working around really a different with many others 07:47:37 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.92] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:47:49 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.92] has joined #lisp 07:48:34 Is asdf diffrent from quicklisp?I feel quicklisp like apt-get ,and asdf like a java mavan? 07:49:26 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:49:35 quicklisp is like apt-get, asdf is like dpkg (or maybe even lower-level). Quicklisp uses asdf to load and compile stuff that it downloaded. 07:50:17 sbcl say they are auto-compiled?is it true? 07:50:34 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 07:51:08 thanks akovalenko ,you really help me understood more 07:53:19 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:53:21 I don't understand what's said about auto-compilation /for sbcl/. ASDF works like this: when you want to load a system, ASDF compiles it first (if it's not done yet), then loads it (if it's not done yet in this session). It's the same way on SBCL, on CLISP, on CCL... anywhere. 07:53:29 Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.235.225] has joined #lisp 07:53:50 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 07:55:12 chenbing`: re logical pathnames: when you press M-. on some symbol, emacs tries to open the file according to definition source recorded when it was compiled. For definitions that are part of SBCL itself, source location is normally recorded as #P"SYS:SRC;CODE;SOMETHING.LISP". It's a _logical pathname_ that must be mapped to some physical pathname in order to open the file...[to be continued..] 07:55:56 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.220.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:56:24 yes,code management and project deploy is sooner or later meeting programmer 07:57:45 is your name russian style?hehe 07:58:36 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 07:58:36 cods [~cods@rsbac/developer/cods] has joined #lisp 07:59:06 chenbing`: H4ns showed you an example of setting logical pathname translations (i.e. the rules that will be used to get from logical pathnames to physical). If you want emacs to visit SBCL sources on M-., you have to (1) download SBCL sources, (2) tell SBCL where to find them. The latter is done by setting logical pathname translations for "SYS" host, so pathnames matching #P"SYS:SRC;**;*.*.*" get translated to 07:59:07 #P"/..where-are-your-sbcl-sources-really../src/**/*.*". (The "src" part is a subdirectory in SBCL sources). 07:59:48 chenbing`: well, I'm russian, so my name being russian-style is not a great surprise.. 08:01:11 en ,classic and identical,people all know 08:02:25 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:02:33 cyber is really shorting the distance 08:05:43 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.232.190] has joined #lisp 08:05:51 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@187.193.235.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:06:49 well..I paste your instructs into my file,I'll practise today 08:08:26 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:11:44 cyrillos [~cyrill@95-55-62-109.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has joined #lisp 08:12:09 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@196.Red-95-121-138.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:13:35 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@120.196.99.14] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:16:21 it's interesting no compiled files ls in directory,unlike other languages,even elisp 08:17:15 chenbing`: asdf puts them in ~/.cache/common-lisp/ 08:17:59 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.15.205] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 08:18:44 -!- gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-63-173-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gringomorcego] 08:18:47 Is the iolib multiplexer documented somewhere? 08:21:41 iolib/examples/tutorial has something about multiplexer too. 08:21:43 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:22:38 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.232.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:23:22 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:24:35 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:25:11 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:25:46 ~/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-1.0.40.0.debian-linux-x86/usr/share/common-lisp/source/slime/swank/fasl/sbcl-1.0.40.0.debian-linux-x86$ 08:25:57 I guess examples/tutorial 08:25:59 I got them 08:26:00 Thanks, me 08:26:45 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 08:27:14 fasl are binaries 08:28:31 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@95-55-62-109.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:28:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:29:19 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:30:17 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.116] has joined #lisp 08:31:14 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-37-209.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:31:14 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-37-209.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 08:31:14 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 08:31:20 How can you response me with hight color person name ,I only know /msg a Privatre message 08:32:36 H4ns: hehe 08:32:38 sshirokov: the answer appears to be no, outside of the tutorial 08:32:41 ok i got it 08:32:57 it's not complicated (afaict) though. 08:34:31 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:34:31 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 08:36:21 -!- H4ns [5b3d4d12@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.77.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:37:16 mishoo [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has joined #lisp 08:38:11 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 08:39:56 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.21] has joined #lisp 08:42:30 good morning everyoen 08:42:53 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:43:05 everyone* 08:46:28 morning. Coffee? 08:47:29 mishoo_ [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has joined #lisp 08:48:36 Guest25076 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 08:49:09 coffee! 08:50:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:50:33 what's the difference between loadlib and require?In a short 08:51:14 require is a CL function while loadlib isn't? 08:52:43 en ,loadlib is custom,careless 08:54:14 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 08:54:51 -!- agumonkey [~dummy@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:57:11 oudeis [~oudeis@59.37.63.109] has joined #lisp 08:59:06 Does all lisp web|project|service start from toplevel? 08:59:25 exclude auto-executeble standalone 09:04:11 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:05:20 lisps seems has no datawarehouse project,a pity,rubies start a acitvewarehouse project 09:07:27 -!- Guest25076 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:09:16 python has one, go use burgled-batteries 09:10:41 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 09:15:57 krrrcks [~user@mail.systemhaus-brunner.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:06 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 09:17:55 -!- bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:20:00 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:21:04 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-spcyiwyzmgobwuxi] has joined #lisp 09:21:39 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 09:22:36 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@94.144.63.14] has joined #lisp 09:22:36 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:22:53 -!- npat [~npat@77.49.152.215.dsl.dyn.forthnet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:23:38 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.127.71] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:24:13 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 09:29:43 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:30:01 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 09:31:33 can u specify the python project? 09:32:01 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:33:43 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 09:37:00 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:38:19 drake01__ [~drake01@115.246.161.217] has joined #lisp 09:38:34 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:58 well, depends on what you want. How about disco? 09:39:21 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:39:49 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:41:54 em,it's a widely dimension.the disco point is interesting enough,is disco a hadoop and mapReduce Implemetion? 09:41:56 mishoo [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has joined #lisp 09:44:18 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has joined #lisp 09:44:50 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:55 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:46:02 -!- drake01__ [~drake01@115.246.161.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:17 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 09:47:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:47:58 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-vtlecnwectfvpgny] has joined #lisp 09:48:27 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 09:51:57 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:57:20 don't/win 2 09:57:23 mhhh... 09:57:24 sorry 09:59:28 I'll/win 2 if I want to! 10:00:03 jasom: ping 10:01:41 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has joined #lisp 10:02:24 Ralith: If it was that easy. /winning one is hard enough 10:02:36 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:04:35 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:04:46 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:05:40 Amyn [~abennama@62.23.212.20] has joined #lisp 10:06:38 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f208:dcca:6e13:6904:da94] has joined #lisp 10:07:09 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f208:dcca:6e13:6904:da94] has quit [Client Quit] 10:10:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:12:15 Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 10:12:23 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 10:12:30 lain_ 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quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:31:11 Is using an flet in a loop a bad idea? 11:31:31 (I wouldn't think it to be, with optimisation, etc.) 11:32:16 Still, I don't want to re-define a function a thousand times a second. 11:33:32 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-212-48.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:33:49 Which I might or might not be doing if I do that, any comments on the situation? 11:34:51 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:04 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:35:08 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.245] has joined #lisp 11:35:15 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:19 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:35:34 Houl [~Miranda@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 11:38:24 why do you need to redefine the function via flet in the loop? 11:38:36 you can't take the definition outside the loop? 11:38:42 jtza8: why not simply move the flet out of the loop? 11:38:50 :) 11:39:02 why would the compiler not compile the flet in the first place? 11:39:53 i mean, it is not that flet's are left alone by the compiler. they are compiled like any other functions. if they are in a loop, it is just the bindings that change with each loop iteration. there is no run-time compilation going on. 11:40:28 but of course, one of the compiler guys here will be able to explain it more precisely. 11:41:00 Just wondering what would happen behind the scenes. 11:41:06 H4ns: why rebinding if it's also avoidable? 11:41:07 H4ns: Thought something like that. 11:41:38 You would rely on the implementation not the standard... 11:41:40 gensym: if it is avoidable, then yes, why put it into the loop? if it is not, then why not put it into the loop? 11:41:45 gensym: do i? 11:42:05 H4ns: jtza8 does 11:42:21 gensym: no, i don't think so. 11:42:24 Nope, theoretical situation. :P 11:42:41 drake01 [~drake01@115.246.213.167] has joined #lisp 11:42:41 -!- drake01 [~drake01@115.246.213.167] has quit [Changing host] 11:42:41 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 11:43:10 -!- waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:43:29 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:43:51 gensym: I was just wondering what would happen behind the scenes, and the best way to ask an abstract question is through a concrete representation. 11:44:01 H4ns: I am new to CL, but I can't imagine that the standard says that rebinding in a loop must be optimized away 11:44:05 drake01 [~drake01@115.246.213.167] has joined #lisp 11:44:05 -!- drake01 [~drake01@115.246.213.167] has quit [Changing host] 11:44:05 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 11:44:20 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:46:00 gensym: we were talking about "redefinition". the question whether closing over variables inside of the loop would be more efficient than, say, passing parameters explicitly, is certainly not part of the spec, but that's also not "redefinition" 11:47:15 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ikdfgcyenwuofbld] has joined #lisp 11:47:43 -!- MjrTom [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:47:44 MjrTom_ [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has joined #lisp 11:47:47 -!- MjrTom_ [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has quit [Excess Flood] 11:47:59 MjrTom [MjrTom@azureus/MjrTom] has joined #lisp 11:48:46 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 11:51:08 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 11:51:52 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 11:54:53 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:56:16 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:29 Anybody want to talk Mop on a Friday morning?? 11:56:48 jmckitrick: it's not morning, but shoot ;) 11:57:10 Excellent. ;-) 11:57:24 I've come out of the stone age to update SBCL for several old projects. 11:57:26 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.245] has joined #lisp 11:57:36 And I got this notice during a build: 11:58:02 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p57921EBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 11:58:06 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 11:59:34 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.189.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:00:00 jajajajaj [jajajajaj@pc-50-55-44-190.cm.vtr.net] has joined #lisp 12:00:16 Hmm.. waiting for the paste to appear.... 12:00:37 jmckitrick: the bot is botched, you need to copy the URL 12:01:10 http://paste.lisp.org/+2OZ0 12:01:51 I saw comments on changes to the MOP. 12:02:06 And I'm trying to catch up since I updated. 12:02:40 jmckitrick: if you want to use compile-time introspection on class definitions, you need to call finalize-class on the classes that you introspect into. 12:03:00 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@180.120.252.96] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 12:03:02 So it's that simple? Calling that method after the class is defined? 12:03:09 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:04:39 jmckitrick: yes, that'd work 12:04:43 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:04:56 wonderful. I was hoping this would be painless. 12:05:24 jmckitrick: there are specific reasons why it is not always done, but i've been doing it with my stuff and it did not hurt me. again, one of the big brains here can propably dig deeper. 12:06:48 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-95-122-110.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:12 Is that in sb-mop? 12:07:13 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has joined #lisp 12:07:13 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has quit [Changing host] 12:07:13 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:07:37 jmckitrick: hold on. 12:07:44 jmckitrick: it is called differently 12:08:00 jmckitrick: finalize-inheritance it is. 12:08:04 Ah. 12:13:23 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:13:56 nanoc [~conanhome@186.12.27.44] has joined #lisp 12:14:09 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-htfeagtxdsbwlnjr] has left #lisp 12:15:57 Now a quick style question... would it make more sense to call FINALIZE-INHERITANCE right after the class declaration, or in the macro where it is introspected? 12:16:17 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:16:41 jmckitrick: i'd do it where the class is introspected 12:19:00 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:19:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 12:19:59 Last question, I think. 12:20:02 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.42.2] has joined #lisp 12:20:13 my quicklisp upgrade updated clsql as well. 12:20:37 I'm running a postgresql backend, and get errors when I try to run simple queries. 12:20:59 I assume it's an encoding issue, but maybe there's a simple option to fix it.... 12:21:03 What errors? 12:22:05 DB> (query "select lastname from members") 12:22:09 hold on... 12:22:22 c-string decoding error (:external-format :ASCII): 12:22:22 the octet sequence 1 cannot be decoded. 12:22:22 [Condition of type SB-INT:C-STRING-DECODING-ERROR] 12:22:26 That's the one. 12:22:57 Not sure if CLSQL has a simple way to select the old behavior, but that's what was working before. 12:23:31 *Xach* scratches chin 12:23:32 -!- H4ns [5ddb9611@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.150.17] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 12:24:02 My next stop is the CLSQL mailing list. ;-) 12:25:14 Is CLSQL expecting unicode queries now? 12:25:42 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-hwybebbanvzwedue] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:46 I don't think it's getting that far. 12:25:52 b/win 2 12:25:56 again... 12:26:04 I think you might just want to present the symptoms without analysis to the CLSQL list to see if there are any suggestions. 12:26:10 k. 12:27:01 KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 12:27:37 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:29:37 millerti [~millerti@76-232-38-36.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:47 -!- KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:30:27 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@122x221x184x68.ap122.ftth.ucom.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:30:56 nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:30:58 -!- KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:32:11 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:35 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has joined #lisp 12:32:35 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has quit [Changing host] 12:32:35 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:33:22 yfff [~user@175.124.94.165] has joined #lisp 12:34:59 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:38 -!- yfff [~user@175.124.94.165] has left #lisp 12:36:39 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 12:37:19 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:55 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-136-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:41:23 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.212.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:41:56 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has joined #lisp 12:43:26 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-119-85.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:43:39 -!- S1am [~guest@eth-209.20-homell.natm.ru] has left #lisp 12:45:06 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:45:23 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:47:37 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has joined #lisp 12:53:48 Guest18688 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 12:55:40 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 12:56:40 chenbing [~user@218.72.95.67] has joined #lisp 12:57:05 H4ns [5b3d5d05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.93.5] has joined #lisp 12:57:36 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 12:59:16 grep "compress" -R *.lisp and grep "compress" -R * in my shell make diffrence to search for subdirectory's *.lisp ,the former can't return full result in subdirect,and the latter can ,this make me a little confused 12:59:49 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-lxkygyuacjqygxoc] has joined #lisp 13:00:39 -!- lain__ [~lain@p5797A3C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:01:12 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:01:14 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:01:51 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:52 gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-63-173-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:55 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 13:04:08 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:04:20 chenbing: i have experienced the same problem but i dont know how to solve it only with grep. find ... -exec might be an option... 13:04:20 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 13:04:32 cheater [~cheater@178-26-50-195-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:04:33 hi 13:04:35 -!- nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d1a3c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:04:48 does anyone know if the scripting language for maxima is a lisp? 13:05:08 chenbing: with grep -R, use a directory name as argument, not file names. 13:05:08 cheater: yes, someone will know 13:05:27 rvirding [~chatzilla@192.165.126.77] has joined #lisp 13:05:28 find | xargs is often a good combination. 13:05:41 flip214: i expect existential proof on my desk by 3 pm. 13:05:54 gensym`: may it's a shell bug,and the latter absolutely run slower than the former 13:05:55 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:06:06 chenbing: if you grep -r ... *.lisp, grep will only go into directoryes that have a name ending with .lisp (i.e. none) 13:06:14 chenbing: no. it is not a bug at all. 13:06:24 (unless you consider, validly, unix to be a bug) 13:06:35 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.126.76] has joined #lisp 13:07:18 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:07:54 H4ns: yes ,you are a real hacker 13:08:01 lain_ [~lain@p5797A3C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:05 oO 13:08:12 haha- 13:08:39 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-119-85.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:53 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:09:10 Do u think needable for a more advanced shell other than classic shell? 13:09:54 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:10:02 chenbing: is grep "whatever" **/*.lisp advanced enough for you? 13:10:25 jlaire [~jlaire@a88-115-181-148.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 13:10:27 Vivitron [~user@pool-173-48-170-228.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:00 jdz: this a a system consideration ,not only for just a grep 13:11:15 jdz: you need to mention that the ** syntax is a zsh speciality 13:11:45 cheater: great luck that you didn't specify a day, month, year, or even calendar ... 13:11:56 possiblly need not 13:11:57 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:58 cheater: but the answer to the implicit question would be yes 13:12:37 H4ns: since whene? 13:12:45 H4ns: seems to be working in bash too 13:13:10 jdz: oh, nice. well, it is certainly not in tcsh or sh. 13:13:32 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 13:14:53 chenbing: do you know what the command invocation i gave works? and why it is actually not relevant to a particular command? 13:15:10 -!- tsuru``` is now known as tsuru` 13:15:22 this channel is making my grammar go ill 13:15:59 jdz: works for me (bash) 13:16:17 gensym`: good. that's totally not what i said. 13:16:36 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:16:41 H4ns: might be a ksh extension 13:16:49 *gensym`* has parsing-problems today 13:17:34 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:34 erf [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:17:35 p_l: no, ksh does not grok ** specially 13:17:46 p_l: (i.e. it assumes ** to be *) 13:17:58 _pw_ [~user@123.112.72.94] has joined #lisp 13:18:01 jdz: was busy,I'll test your code 13:18:20 -!- millerti [~millerti@76-232-38-36.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: millerti] 13:18:54 ack-grep is pretty neat for searching through code, btw 13:20:00 ack --lisp pattern does what you want by default 13:20:05 -!- gtrak [~gtrak```@pool-173-67-58-11.bltmmd.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:20:40 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 13:21:05 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:21:20 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:21:31 flip214: so if i wrote a maxima script then can i put "lisp" on my cv 13:21:54 cheater: sure, if you wanted to be a lying scumbag 13:22:02 well, in zsh one can do so much more, for instance, grep in lisp files modified last week only: ls **/*.lisp(mw-1) 13:22:11 dlowe_lt: why, is that not lisp then? 13:22:35 jdz: grep "compress" -R **/*.lisp not work in my shell 13:22:36 cheater: putting lisp on your cv indicates some competence beyond writing a single script 13:23:00 how do you know it's not under the heading "things i have used once" 13:23:05 http://zsh.sourceforge.net/Guide/zshguide05.html#l135 13:23:16 chenbing: then upgrade your shell 13:23:17 kmc [~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:29 cheater: if you have such a heading, you should remove it, since it's not remotely interesting to any potential readers 13:24:00 what if a recruiter is looking for someone who's always looking into new things 13:24:03 not that lisp is new 13:24:09 Nimatek [~x@unaffiliated/nimatek] has joined #lisp 13:24:14 jdz: "find . -mtime -7 -iname "*.lisp" -exec grep defun {} \;" works in every shell 13:24:20 but of course it's much newer than many other languages 13:24:24 cheater: you have a rosy view of recruiters 13:24:52 cheater: lisp is newer than which languages? 13:24:56 hpc [~hpc@ip98-169-33-6.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:59 cheater: lisp as a language family is preceded only by fortran 13:25:00 find + grep pattern is not clear self 13:25:17 flip214: arameic 13:25:31 lol 13:25:32 you have to remember oddy semantics 13:25:46 so, back to the reason i'm here 13:25:46 So, use find + xargs. 13:25:56 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:26:00 Common Lisp is newer than C 13:26:01 Zhivago: no, grep + -exec 13:26:05 -!- Guest18688 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:18 Zhivago: with xargs you should use -0 ... 13:26:50 mah_b [~mah_b@p4FFB671D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:26:51 is there a way in maxima's lisp to iterate over a list of lists, and sort it wht eg the first element of each entry? 13:26:55 how would i do that? 13:27:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:27:32 cheater: no idea in maxima's lisp, but in common lisp you do (sort list-of-lists #'< :key #'car) 13:27:37 cheater this channel is about common lisp 13:27:47 anyway grep "xxx" . works in a most clear mode 13:27:57 kennyd: hm 13:27:58 H4ns's solution is best 13:28:01 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:03 how would i do that in common lisp? 13:28:03 ok 13:28:10 ack --lisp is best :p 13:28:13 dlowe_lt: i'll try applying that in some way 13:28:19 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.207] has joined #lisp 13:28:26 dlowe_lt: do you use full-ack.el ? 13:28:43 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.116] has quit [Quit: Offline] 13:28:52 felideon: no, I just set the grep command to ack 13:28:59 felideon: I'll take a look 13:29:22 antifuchs recommended it to me and now I use it all the time 13:29:43 cheater doesn't sound like maxima's lisp is a lisp at a.. "Maxima includes a complete programming language with ALGOL-like syntax but Lisp-like semantics. It is written in Common Lisp, and can be accessed programmatically and extended, as the underlying Lisp can be called from Maxima" 13:29:44 it seems like shell is a hot thread 13:30:07 though I guess it depends on your definition. some people consider ruby to be a lisp 13:31:43 ruby is most lisplike in current languages 13:32:00 erf: hmm interesting 13:32:18 chenbing: er, I think, say, common lisp, might be more lisp-like than ruby 13:32:22 Guest66778 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 13:32:25 can ruby gracefully manipulate ruby code as data? 13:32:45 chenbing: You might want to see your doctor and have him check you for insanity. 13:32:47 rsynnott: lisp already is lisp 13:33:07 dlowe_lt: I think it actually can, but most certainly not gracefully 13:33:12 dlowe_lt: didn't McCarthy ask that to Norvig one time in a conference? (except wrt Python) 13:33:14 (Python can, but it's pretty horrible) 13:33:21 or at least that's the story Kenny has told me :) 13:33:22 my ruby comment was meant tongue in the cheek if it wasn't obvious 13:33:24 rsynnott: C can, but not gracefuly 13:33:25 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-10-171.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:33:34 felideon: yeah, that was a reference to the story 13:34:01 dlowe: C can manipulate code as data? 13:34:08 Anyone care to help me try out a new Quicklisp client feature? 13:34:17 hey i heard that using lisp's features i can manupilate maxima code as if it is data, is that right? 13:34:20 Zhivago is a famous doctor 13:34:21 Zhivago: sure. all you have to do is write a lexer and a parser 13:34:25 I haven't had any takers in #quicklisp, maybe they are all idle. 13:34:31 haha 13:34:42 Xach: what would you need? 13:34:45 -!- jajajajaj [jajajajaj@pc-50-55-44-190.cm.vtr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:35:05 flip214: Someone who can checkout things with git, and who has a local project sitting around that is not in quicklisp. 13:35:11 why would anyone want to manipulate code as data? 13:35:16 Xach: I wouldn't mind it. on Allegro modern mode right now though :) 13:35:19 why is now cmucl's clx failing with require and asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op ? 13:35:21 both ok for me 13:35:38 Let us discuss it in #quicklisp! 13:35:46 i didn't do anything new 13:35:50 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:35:50 cheater: because it lets you add to the language without having to wait for someone else to 13:36:09 why do i need to wait for someone else if i can't do that 13:36:30 cheater: because in non-lisps, you can't easily add new syntax 13:36:54 consider how long java fans had to wait for the iterating for-loop 13:37:30 English is not my mother language,so please tolent my misexpression 13:37:30 the sequence-iterating for-loop, I should say 13:37:49 (I mean, for loops iterate, obviously) 13:38:03 maybe that's not my accurate meaning 13:38:49 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:39:11 But you can't really add syntax to a language that has none. 13:39:38 gtrak [~gtrak```@173.13.240.205] has joined #lisp 13:39:38 ikki [~ikki@84-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:07 It's considered clever to say that lisp has no syntax, but that's not quite true. 13:41:02 Or rather minimal syntax. 13:41:33 Anyway, to quote, "You mean you can't have less. You can always have more than nothing." 13:43:02 -!- kmc [~keegan@c-98-216-51-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 13:43:08 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.114.83] has joined #lisp 13:43:15 But the common lisp reader is powerful enough to turn curly braces and semicolons into PROGN forms, should I be so insane 13:43:55 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:59 there is a big bug in unzip under utf8 filename,it 13:44:24 extract files with wrong filenames 13:44:31 chenbing: this is neither #shell, nor #unzip, nor #linux 13:44:43 aO 13:44:58 H4ns: maybe it's regarding the unzip CL library. 13:45:19 Xach: you don't really guess so, do you? 13:45:53 Who can say with such a languaging fence 13:47:33 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483B68E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:50:36 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:58 Yuuhi [benni@p5483B68E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:53:12 Toto [~fork@92.90.20.4] has joined #lisp 13:53:17 -!- Toto is now known as diesirae 13:53:28 -!- diesirae is now known as diesirae42 13:53:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.133.46] has joined #lisp 13:53:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.133.46] has quit [Changing host] 13:53:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:53:55 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:55 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 13:55:35 -!- diesirae42 [~fork@92.90.20.4] has left #lisp 13:57:02 kpreid [~kpreid@0-26-8-e3-6f-6.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 13:59:57 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 14:01:55 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-lxkygyuacjqygxoc] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:01:56 SeySayux [~SeySayux@unaffiliated/seysayux] has joined #lisp 14:02:54 Would you recommend Lisp as an embedded (i.e. a la Lua) language? If so, which library can I use for that? 14:04:05 SeySayux: I would look at the ECL implementation. 14:04:24 I believe one can load it as a shared library in an application. 14:04:49 SeySayux: I haven't heard any stories about using Common Lisp for that purpose, but there might be a few. 14:05:17 SeySayux: I more often hear about common lisp applications that are extensible in common lisp. And there was a neat use of JavaScript as an extension language for a common lisp application too. 14:05:18 1) I cannot find any information on how to do that, the ECL project seems either dead and/or terribly underdocumented 2) ECL is licenced under the LGPL, which is annoying. 14:05:52 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Quit: Byes!] 14:07:15 SeySayux: ecl is not dead. if you have issues with the license, you may want to look into lispworks or allegro cl. both offer ways to integrate the lisp into other applications. 14:08:12 centipedefarmer [~centipede@68.91.203.34] has joined #lisp 14:08:13 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:08:39 -!- aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has left #lisp 14:09:50 -!- Guest66778 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:10:20 -!- ikki [~ikki@84-r9-r1m.bb.itelcel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:10:32 Do you ever chitchat with gonzojive? 14:10:51 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:08 -!- Nimatek [~x@unaffiliated/nimatek] has left #lisp 14:11:18 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 14:11:26 TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:13:01 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449938.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:13:03 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-ygnrrsimjhganuay] has joined #lisp 14:13:07 *Xach* wants to help him update webfunk 14:13:50 Are there ways of interacting with the REPL, from lisp? For example, say I want to clear the repl screen (without a format and N number of lines), is that possible? 14:14:21 TDT: clearing the screen, no. 14:14:55 duomo [~duomo@d90h27.public.simons-rock.edu] has joined #lisp 14:15:16 Xach: do you have his email address? 14:15:17 TDT: (format t "~a]0h~a]0j" #\escape #\escape) 14:15:28 Anything other than adding more output will fall under terminal-specific, repl-specific stuff. 14:16:05 TDT by REPL do you mean repl running a in terminal window or in emacs/slime? 14:16:07 H4ns: reddaly at gee mail dot com is what github says 14:16:16 Bill Clementson mentioned a video of Marco Baringer in his blog (http://bc.tech.coop/blog/050728.html), but the links are dead. Is the video available elsewhere? 14:16:21 s/a in/in a 14:16:31 Xach: that's what i have. not responsive? 14:16:35 erf: emacs slime, and yeah Xach I didn't think so. 14:16:36 oops. was doing it from memory.(format t "~a[0h~a[2j" #\escape #\escape) 14:16:49 H4ns: i added a github issue, no response yet. have not emailed. 14:16:51 yeah I can't help suggest ack-grep ,ack-grep --lisp & --python is good for programmer 14:16:54 gensym: http://common-lisp.net/project/movies/movies/slime.mov i think. 14:17:11 Xach: thanks! 14:17:14 dlowe_lt: it is H and J 14:17:22 *dlowe_lt* sighs. 14:17:27 just ignore me 14:17:39 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #lisp 14:17:47 dlowe_lt: thank u 14:17:50 dlowe_lt: That doesn't seem to work from slime...very, not sure what that all is - hah. 14:18:03 TDT: the answer is "no" 14:18:04 dlowe_lt: and not intentionally ignoring you, just testing out he cmds you're posting :P 14:18:05 TDT: no, it wouldn't. but it might work in a terminal 14:18:18 if, you know, I typed it in correctly 14:18:31 (format t "~a[0H~a[2J" #\escape #\escape) 14:18:35 *H4ns* pulls his vt52 out of his basement, points at dlowe_lt, "does not work" 14:18:38 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.232.190] has joined #lisp 14:18:41 Hmm, it seems to me that writing a Lisp parser isn't that difficult in comparison, to, say, a C++ parser... 14:19:05 SeySayux: there's a full lisp interpreter running around that's 500 lines of C 14:19:17 Yeah that does work in the terminal. Interesting. 14:19:28 TDT: it's just terminal control codes 14:20:05 Yea, to compile C++ you'll need to solve the halting problem and stuff... 14:20:09 dlowe_lt: Can't say I'm familiar with those, eventually this may run through a terminal instead of sbcl...but meh, i'm unsure how much I'll dedicate into this. 14:20:17 Guest57592 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:41 TDT: well, theoretically you should be using some terminal control library for portability 14:20:45 I'm kinda shocked, at least from my google attempts, that a cl based flashcard script doesn't exit. Arbitrary to create, but yeah 14:20:57 practically, you can pretty much always count on vt52 14:22:11 whatever i do, if i not load clx before quicklisp every mention of clx load the one from quicklisp/sbcl.... 14:22:35 even with require only 14:22:47 -!- hpc [~hpc@ip98-169-33-6.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #lisp 14:22:53 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.232.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:23:49 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-ygnrrsimjhganuay] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 14:23:57 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-wcrzorekkuvvwmgc] has joined #lisp 14:24:20 homie: asdf hooks require 14:24:33 *Xach* wonders if it can be unhooked 14:25:01 _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 14:26:41 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 14:27:00 -!- _mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Client Quit] 14:27:55 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:28:57 watching the slime video posted above. how is he copying previously returned values? 14:29:00 ok i just use require before quicklisp then.... 14:29:13 that works....at least 14:29:15 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 14:29:27 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:33 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:29:40 G'morning all. 14:30:05 erf: clicking on their presentations, maybe? not sure, i haven't seen the video in a long time. 14:30:18 erf: iirc pretty-print-presentation 14:30:35 (slime-setup '(... slime-presentation)) 14:30:40 he is doing the * ** *** etc equivalent with a mouse, by clicking the the previously returned value 14:30:46 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@94.144.63.14] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:47 is that slime-presentation? 14:31:23 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-119-85.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:33:41 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:13 why is 381: 14:34:13 (NULL (CHARACTER-NAMED "U+110000" :TRY-HEX-NOTATION-P T :WANT-CODE-POINT-P T)) returned NIL cl-unicode test fail in cmucl but not in sbcl ? 14:35:00 homie: cmucl and sbcl are different implementations, and have different unicode strategies. 14:36:14 ok 14:36:29 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:37:21 (They have different strategies mainly due to them implementing unicode at some point after 1999.) 14:37:38 how would you name those strategies ? 14:37:48 one is code-point oriented ? 14:37:54 and the other is what ? 14:38:18 i think i'm clueless..... 14:38:21 eulyix [~charles@nas21-69.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:38:48 homie: I mean that there need not be any expectation that two unicode-related operations behave the same way in different lisps, whether it's cmucl and sbcl or cmucl and anything else. 14:39:41 hmmmm ok 14:39:51 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 14:41:45 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:42:11 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:23 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:42 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 14:44:41 how is a function calling another function by means of clos/pcl slot like :to-be-called-function #'blah behave with respect to blah's definition/scope time ? does it require it to be defined before ? 14:44:49 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:45:06 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 14:45:38 cause in clim-debugger under cmucl i get an error that it is not defined, but the function is defined later on in the source i see..... 14:46:04 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-45763eb0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:39 so i moved the function def just after the defclass and before the function call and it works now too under cmucl, however it worked the other way in sbcl earlier without problems.... 14:46:50 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:46:58 so pcl implementation seems to be different in some respect too then or something else....... 14:47:57 it is not exported, it is called from within the same source.....cmucl does not find it when it is defined later on...... 14:48:07 sbcl does..... 14:50:04 or maybe something interfered when :clx could not be found within cmucl ......... 14:50:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:28 that's more probable..... 14:50:29 Both SBCL and CMUCL have custom-hacked copies of PCL, SBCL probably has it more tightly integrated against the compiler. 14:50:53 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:51:20 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:52:17 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:53:36 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:53:45 -!- eulyix [~charles@nas21-69.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:54:13 -!- Guest57592 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:54:18 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@0-26-8-e3-6f-6.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:55:47 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:56:04 eulyix [~charles@nas21-69.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 14:56:08 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 14:56:50 Is there good hash-table benchmark code out there? 14:58:37 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 14:58:38 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:59:16 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ikdfgcyenwuofbld] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:59:42 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:01:03 -!- eulyix [~charles@nas21-69.york.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:01:08 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 15:01:16 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:01:24 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:02:11 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:15 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:02:16 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:34 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-spcyiwyzmgobwuxi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:04:59 kpreid [~kpreid@0-26-8-e3-6f-6.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 15:09:02 kpreid_ [~kpreid@0-26-8-e3-6f-6.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 15:09:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@0-26-8-e3-6f-6.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:09:10 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 15:12:45 urandom__ [~user@p548A3895.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:14:50 nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-74-184.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 15:15:12 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@0-26-8-e3-6f-6.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:16:49 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:08 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM1-114-119-85.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:20:47 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@192.165.126.77] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:22:05 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dec6.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:24:11 -!- erf [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org] 15:24:19 -!- mah_b [~mah_b@p4FFB671D.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 15:24:26 Qworkescence: not that i know. a good hash-table benchmark should differentiate between a crapload of different cases. small tables, big tables, lots sequential accesses to the same object, lots of accesses all over the place, mostly-read-only, evenly read/write, mostly write-only, efficacy of EQUAL[P] hashing vs various inputs, ... etc. and a cross product of most of those would be nice 15:24:54 Qworkescence: so most people only benchmark the cases that matter to them... 15:24:58 nikodemus`, I agree 15:26:35 -!- chenbing [~user@218.72.95.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:26:38 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:26:57 chenbing [~user@218.72.95.67] has joined #lisp 15:28:58 ngz [~user@83.131.77.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:01 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:29:42 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 15:34:30 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:01 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:35:53 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:38 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:36:58 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-182-211-206.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:22 -!- ngz [~user@83.131.77.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:37:59 ngz [~user@83.131.77.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:39:09 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 15:39:15 -!- rtoyg [chatzilla@nat/google/x-plejkkkurlaekist] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:39:41 newbie lisp question: I want to process list elements with something like mapcar, and accumulate a new list of transformed values. Is there a more elegant way than just doing something like this? 15:39:43 (let ((dest (list))) 15:39:43 (mapcar (lambda (i) 15:39:43 (setf dest (append dest (list (+ i 1))))) 15:39:46 '(2 3 4)) 15:39:49 dest) 15:39:52 15:40:07 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:08 antgreen: please don't paste code here. use paste.lisp.org 15:40:11 ok 15:40:28 antgreen: mapcar returns the new list. 15:40:45 antgreen: try (mapcar #'1+ '(2 3 4)) 15:41:09 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:41:39 oh? 15:41:58 thanks! 15:42:51 yes,paste.lisp.org is quite good for list problems 15:43:16 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-110-173.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:16 Whoever can describe the meaning of MAPC, MAPCAR, MAPCAN, MAPL, MAPLIST, and MAPCON from memory is a true winner. 15:45:36 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-wcrzorekkuvvwmgc] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:45:38 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:45:59 _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:06 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 8.0/20111102223350]] 15:47:50 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 15:50:01 Qworkescence: I will challenge this for a few days 15:50:46 :) 15:51:25 Qworkescence: :-) lol 15:53:29 H4ns: good night,see u tomorrow 15:55:26 -!- aditya` [~user@deech.nrg.wustl.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:39 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:59:09 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-106-67.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:59:25 rtoyg [chatzilla@nat/google/x-rspfemosvfcdarvs] has joined #lisp 16:00:58 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:03:14 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 16:03:24 (I had to look up mapcon, which is a red herring (-:) 16:04:13 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.42.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:09:01 jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-72.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:10:51 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:19:36 antifuchs: the ones that end in "n" use nconc 16:19:47 mapcan vs mapcon is probably one of the worst naming choices ever :) 16:20:05 -!- krrrcks [~user@mail.systemhaus-brunner.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:20:06 mapcar vs maplist makes sense 16:20:21 jasom: yeah - I knew about mapcan 16:20:22 Neronus: really it should be mapcar vs mapcdr for that though 16:20:44 why there are two functions that do the same thing though, I don't know 16:21:22 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.136.130] has joined #lisp 16:21:27 like first vs car? or which ones do you mean? 16:21:46 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.166.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:21:51 -!- gringomorcego [~gringo@c-24-63-173-131.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: gringomorcego] 16:21:54 is there something like mapcar that takes two lambdas and produces two lists with one traversal? 16:22:08 -!- nitro_id_ [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-74-184.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:22:13 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-azmlphdqjaqmzxog] has joined #lisp 16:22:34 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:49 antgreen: mapcar always returns one list 16:23:12 loop and iterate :) 16:23:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-106-67.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:24:05 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:25:06 agumonkey [~dummy@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:19 cheater_ [~cheater@178-26-50-195-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:25:23 ok, thanks 16:25:41 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1176449938.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:13 -!- cheater [~cheater@178-26-50-195-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:29:19 (defun my-mapcar (predicates list) (loop for pred in predicates collect (mapcar pred list))) 16:29:19 FIGHT-STATS> (my-mapcar '(1+ 1-) '(1 2 3)) 16:29:54 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-136.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:30:03 ((2 3 4) (0 1 2)) 16:31:01 ((2 3 4) (0 1 2)) 16:32:03 I think he wanted a single run over the list 16:32:38 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:35:41 -!- Houl [~Miranda@unaffiliated/houl] has quit [Quit: weil das Wetter so schön ist] 16:36:26 astalla [~alessio@dynamic-adsl-94-36-45-245.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 16:36:41 -!- agumonkey [~dummy@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:38:05 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:38:19 did mccarthy ever come here? 16:38:20 iwillig [~root@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:38:31 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:32 -!- iwillig [~root@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:38:59 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:08 theos: no 16:39:14 :/ 16:39:31 Kenny Tilton did once, though. 16:39:47 he just died recently. 24th oct 11 i guess 16:39:55 Oh no! Poor Kenny! 16:40:06 not kenny. mccarthy 16:40:18 *Neronus* tries very hard not to cite south park 16:40:27 theos: yes, it was Big News 16:41:00 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:05 *theos* didnt know who mccarthy was until today 16:41:51 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:07 theos: probably because you don't pay attention to information in front of you 16:43:15 theos: topic of this channel for instance 16:43:37 jdz, i joined the channel first time today ? 16:43:41 theos: Do you use Lisp? 16:43:52 Xach, i want to learn it :) 16:44:10 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:44:13 theos: yes, and did not read the topic 16:44:29 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 16:45:01 theos: ok, forget it. 16:45:03 jdz, i did. thats why i searched for the name in the topic. thats how i know who he was >.> 16:45:19 did i hurt your sentiments? :S 16:45:29 theos: yes, i'm sorry. it's me who does not pay attention in front of me. 16:45:36 *Xach* wonders how many people use a language without knowing who invented it; are newer language more "inventor personality" oriented? 16:46:33 :P 16:46:47 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:50 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:46:54 mit, 1967 ? 16:47:04 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:47:04 no wait 16:47:07 earlier..... 16:47:12 theos: Well, you have made a fine choice, and you don't have to know anything about John McCarthy to learn Lisp. 16:47:49 a lil bit about lambda calculus ? 16:47:57 church ? turing ? 16:48:01 Xach, no. its my habit to read about the background of everything i learn :) 16:48:31 curry!..... 16:49:03 chicken or vegetarian? 16:49:07 egg! 16:49:08 frege!... 16:49:22 :3 16:49:56 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:57 post? 16:50:01 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-vtlecnwectfvpgny] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:24 Ah, weather forecast for marseille looks good for next weekend. Les Calanques, here I come! 16:50:29 -!- ngz [~user@83.131.77.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:50:39 Xach: The only language I use that I can't name the inventor of is perl, but I only use it because I inherited some perl scripts 16:51:00 larry wall!... 16:51:14 thanks homie that's right 16:51:17 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04dec6.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:51:53 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:03 Python: GVR C: K&R C++: Stroustrup Java: Gosling AWK: AWK 16:52:33 python ? 16:52:38 How do I set the value of a variable in a let outside of the intial declaration-form? 16:52:40 oh and tcl is ousterhout 16:52:50 oh java i didn't know and python!..... 16:52:52 phryk: setf/setq 16:53:02 prolog? 16:53:04 H4ns: But that will be global and not only inside the let, right? 16:53:11 theos: No. 16:53:19 phryk: no. it will affect whatever binding is in effect. 16:53:19 prolog ? acme! 16:53:21 what 16:53:22 lol 16:53:31 H4ns: Ah thanks, good to know :) 16:53:31 erlang? 16:53:42 phryk: essential. :) 16:53:59 theos: more seriously you may have me. I think it was Alex something though 16:54:06 Yes. It definitely is. But I somehow didn't need it up to now :) 16:54:08 :) 16:54:20 erlang is joe amstrong's 16:54:20 theos: Alain Colmerauer (thanks wikipedia) 16:54:26 hehe 16:54:37 haskell? 16:54:39 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:54:45 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:54:46 well ok. 16:54:49 ml ? 16:54:55 Please, enough of that stupid shit. 16:54:56 but I've never used prolog except for once in that AI class 16:55:00 -!- astalla [~alessio@dynamic-adsl-94-36-45-245.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:55:12 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 16:59:01 Guest30606 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:40 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 17:00:38 common lisp is what i should learn? 17:00:51 Yes. 17:01:21 is it better than other dialects? clojure etc? 17:01:40 theos: in this channel, we use and like common lisp 17:01:49 theos: yes. 17:01:56 thanks 17:02:23 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:02:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:02:39 -!- paul0 [~user@200.146.127.182.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:11 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:04:10 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.232.190] has joined #lisp 17:04:15 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-008-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:37 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:05:06 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-wleinomradfdyqqy] has joined #lisp 17:05:23 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:07:06 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:07:33 astalla [~alessio@dynamic-adsl-94-36-53-10.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:08:10 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@pD9FEBBF5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:08:36 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:08:54 lanthan__ [~ze@pD9E3AC24.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:56 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:30 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:42 Can someone recommend a way to check if something evaluates as true that is more elegant than (not (not foo)) ? 17:11:54 phryk: foo 17:12:19 phryk: everything that is not nil is "true" in common lisp 17:12:22 -!- TDT [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:12:25 H4ns: that only works for pure booleans 17:12:32 phryk: not at all 17:12:44 oh mom 17:13:10 Anything that takes a "generalized boolean" will accept non-nil as true. 17:13:12 You're right, sorry. I did (foo) instead of foo -.- 17:13:13 phryk: http://clhs.lisp.se/Body/26_glo_g.htm#generalized_boolean 17:13:35 I know what a generalized boolean is. I'm just too damn dumb to write proper code :< 17:14:56 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:15:09 Now, some stuff actually needs T rather than mere non-NIL, for which you occasionally run into the double-negation construction. 17:15:45 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@68.91.203.34] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:15:51 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:24 nyef: Yeah, but for cond it's only a generalized boolean. And I'm pretty sure the clhs will tell me if a function needs a 'pure' or a generalized boolean :) 17:16:32 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:21:27 Mhh, I want a let to build a list, which I want to initializes as being empty and then want to nconc the data onto, using a loop. 17:21:58 With what value should I initialized that list? It seems that I cannot nconc onto NIL 17:21:59 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:10 initialize* 17:22:18 phryk: why don't you go with push/nreverse instead? 17:22:21 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:22:31 oh push might be good. 17:22:36 phryk: i.e. push elements onto the list, then return (nreverse list) 17:22:52 idiom 17:22:53 phryk: that is the common lisp idion. 17:22:55 "This would be a /beautiful/ if*" 17:23:06 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-odmfsdxqeuwxeazj] has joined #lisp 17:23:07 I have now heard everything. 17:23:16 phryk: you can either use a guard: (let ((list (list :guard))) (nconc (list :element list)) (cdr list)) 17:23:31 antifuchs: eek, did someone other than jf say that? 17:23:33 phryk: or you can use setf: (let ((list '())) (setf list (nconc (list :element) list)) list) 17:23:49 k9quaint-wk [~k9quaint-@64.197.122.130] has joined #lisp 17:24:03 phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has joined #lisp 17:24:04 phryk: but indeed, it's better to avoid nconc: (let ((list '())) (push :e1 list) (push :e2 list) (nreverse list)) 17:24:10 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:18 The later will be more efficient. 17:24:25 The setf thing seems ugly. What's the exact difference between nconc and push? 17:24:28 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.212.207] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:24:29 H4ns: no ((-: 17:24:45 *sykopomp* wonders what operators in clhs expect specifically either T or NIL. 17:24:45 antifuchs: oh you silly franz folks and your if* 17:24:46 antifuchs: well then. you know how to shrug :) 17:24:58 sykopomp: it is not folkS 17:25:58 H4ns: you can clean the slime REPL from CL. You can use swank and slime to call emacs from CL and CL from emacs. See http://paste.lisp.org/display/22414 (perhaps it bit rotted, but it should still be possible). 17:26:09 syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:26:12 :D 17:26:31 H4ns: (eval-in-emacs '(slime-repl-clear-buffer)) 17:26:32 drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 17:26:35 bbabelfish [~user@175.124.94.165] has joined #lisp 17:26:36 pjb: yeah, but there is no way to "clear" "the repl" in a general fashion. 17:26:41 H4ns: my shrugging muscles are very well-developed (-: 17:26:54 H4ns: yes, you have to know what the REPL is connected to. 17:27:27 antifuchs: i can imagine. you appear not to have gotten any more insane over the last few months, which is a clear indication. :) 17:28:01 phryk: use CLHS to see the exact difference between nconc and push. 17:28:47 I /have/ committed code with if* in it, though! 17:28:52 (oh god what have I become) (: 17:29:01 antifuchs: "schleimer" :) 17:29:05 phryk: you can write: (define-modify-macro nconcf (&rest args) nconc "Nconc onto list") (let ((list '())) (nconcf (list :element) list) list) 17:29:06 ahahahaha 17:29:32 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-008-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:35 H4ns: during the initial part of your talk, I could only think of Garret's bb macro. 17:30:07 Xach: is that a binding thing? 17:30:13 antifuchs: Well, if you've used (loop if then else ) if* shouldn't be worse a sin. 17:30:29 H4ns: yes. it is like if metabang-bind chose LOOP for the starting point instead of LET. 17:30:40 Xach: mmmh, tasty! 17:30:56 pjb: I have! and it was nice (: 17:30:57 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 17:31:06 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 17:32:51 -!- setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:36:34 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 17:36:53 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:44 Fare [~Fare@173-9-65-97-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:55 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:38:47 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:51 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 17:41:01 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: gogogo] 17:41:23 -!- bbabelfish [~user@175.124.94.165] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:41:58 centipedefarmer [~centipede@68.91.203.34] has joined #lisp 17:44:43 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kbcvmzfilkmdrpie] has joined #lisp 17:45:39 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 17:46:49 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-kbcvmzfilkmdrpie] has left #lisp 17:48:40 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:51:46 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.92] has joined #lisp 17:51:47 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.93.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:51:49 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:51:57 lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@94.144.63.1] has joined #lisp 17:53:04 -!- Guest30606 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:53:04 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@59.37.63.109] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:53:51 oudeis [~oudeis@59.37.63.109] has joined #lisp 17:55:09 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.102.158] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:56:02 mtd [~martin@67.207.131.107] has joined #lisp 17:56:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:58:24 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.168.203] has joined #lisp 17:59:16 lemoinem [~swoog@158-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:13 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:01:19 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:02:21 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 18:02:51 hey, I just read http://lisptips.com/post/12321870014/working-on-multidimensional-arrays ; is there a function to do the opposite of ARRAY-ROW-MAJOR-INDEX ? 18:03:07 galdor: i wondered that myself last week, and i don't think there is. 18:04:17 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:20 chenbing` [~user@218.72.95.67] has joined #lisp 18:04:25 too bad 18:05:33 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:41 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 18:05:56 huangho [~vitor@187.81.135.156] has joined #lisp 18:06:13 -!- chenbing [~user@218.72.95.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:06:15 benkard__ [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:09:17 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:09:17 -!- benkard__ is now known as benkard 18:09:41 -!- benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:00 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@212.79-161-132.customer.lyse.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:41 -!- chenbing` [~user@218.72.95.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:20:03 galdor: there is always a function to do something... here it is: (lambda (a i) (labels ((e (d i) (if (null d) '() (multiple-value-bind (q r) (truncate i (car d)) (cons r (e (cdr d) q)))))) (reverse (e (reverse (array-dimensions a)) i)))) 18:21:01 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:23:09 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:23:27 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:31 reduce. 18:24:00 pkhuong: IIRC I proposed that function using reduce here two weeks ago. Check the logs. 18:24:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.133.54] has joined #lisp 18:24:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@81.211.133.54] has quit [Changing host] 18:24:00 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:24:32 It looks like one of these cases when reduce clarifies the program. 18:25:16 it seems ok but the using so many single-letter variable names is evil :) 18:25:45 galdor: yes, that's what you get in an irc message. 18:26:09 understandable in that case 18:26:38 -!- lain_ [~lain@p5797A3C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:27:18 lain_ [~lain@p5797A3C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:12 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-49-162.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:31:02 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:27 JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has joined #lisp 18:31:29 Bah, erc-input-ring is too short, it doesn't goes back two weeks of input :-( 18:32:29 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-72.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:32:35 -!- JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:32:55 JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:12 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:33 -!- JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:33:55 JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has joined #lisp 18:34:31 -!- JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:34:50 JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:07 -!- JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 18:36:25 JoRjaNi [~Mothainut@host-212-75-20-44.bbccable.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:42 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:36:55 -!- JoRjaNi 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[~mommer@mnhm-590c04c8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:36 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-51-209.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:46:56 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEC66.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:48:04 paul0 [~user@200.146.127.182.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:48:05 hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEC66.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:23 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:52:44 ngz [~user@83.131.77.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:33 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:58:55 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 19:02:02 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:02:11 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:02:26 two weeks in this channel is a pretty big ring buffer. 19:02:30 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:05:15 Fade: I've got 24 GB of ram, everything's relative :-) 19:15:40 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 19:15:44 -!- syamajala [~syamajala@68-116-188-122.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:49 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-5d868351.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:40 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:21:56 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:22:44 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04fd1f.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:22:44 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 19:23:17 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.168.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:25:52 nha [~prefect@2001:470:d552:23:216:41ff:fee4:6aa1] has joined #lisp 19:26:57 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3368.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:28:41 keeping daily logs in files seems more useful than keeping a large erc buffer 19:32:37 -!- duomo [~duomo@d90h27.public.simons-rock.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:32:50 hagish_ [~hagish@pD9FBF255.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:00 duomo [~duomo@d90h27.public.simons-rock.edu] has joined #lisp 19:35:20 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.232.190] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:35:46 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5DCBEC66.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:35:48 There are public archives, too ... eg. http://ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/lisp/ 19:36:59 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:37:41 it's nice not having to switch context to look at the backlog. 19:39:59 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:40:16 hagish__ [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:30 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.27] has joined #lisp 19:40:52 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:42:03 -!- hagish_ [~hagish@pD9FBF255.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:48:24 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.168.203] has joined #lisp 19:48:29 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-172-71.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:49:19 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Bye all, got a train to catch.] 19:51:27 milanj [~milanj_@93-87-194-178.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:54:35 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 19:58:05 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:19 -!- nikodemus` [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:58:39 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:13 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:00:24 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.168.203] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:00:48 -!- angavrilov [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:01:02 -!- ngz [~user@83.131.77.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:01:33 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:04:21 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.168.203] has joined #lisp 20:06:25 agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:17 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:20 a question 20:07:34 how can i match a string in a cons struct like *features* 20:07:36 i tried 20:07:58 If you could formulate better your question, a good answer would come naturally. 20:08:21 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 20:08:35 *features* is not a random "cons struture", it's a list. Also, in CL, a list is a sequence. 20:08:48 (cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings "rotate" *features*) gives me error cause :keywords are not strings..... 20:08:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:05 i know i could use (sb-int:featurep :blah) 20:09:24 but that would only give me t or nil 20:09:39 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:10:19 Also, you should probably NOT match features by symbol name. CROSS-COMPILER:PPC and :PPC are not the same, on *features*... 20:10:31 homie: and what else would you expect? 20:11:09 (Notice how *features* is a list of symbols, not a list of strings. I wonder how you came to the idea that you could match strings there?!?) 20:11:22 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.27] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.7-dev] 20:11:51 i wouldn't expect, i just ask how to get a feature-name by match, symbols containing the same substring would be no problem i think i could edit the regex accordingly.... 20:12:21 homie: what do you actually want to find out? 20:12:39 -!- SeySayux [~SeySayux@unaffiliated/seysayux] has quit [Quit: SeySayux] 20:12:44 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d868351.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:12:53 say if sbcl-uses-rotate-byte or so is in the *features* list by matching it..... 20:13:11 but somehow yes, i can't match agains symbols..... 20:13:13 (member 'sbcl-uses-rotate-byte *features*) 20:13:37 homie: MEMBER is the usual thing to use. 20:14:03 it would normally be a keyword in that specific case. 20:14:22 hmmm, it gives me nil 20:14:35 And notice how different (member 'CROSS-COMPILER:PPC *features*) is from (member :PPC *features*). 20:14:39 (member 'sbcl-uses-sb-rotate-byte *features*) -> nil 20:14:47 It's not surprising either. 20:14:52 homie: it is a keyword symbol. 20:15:41 drwho [~drwho@c-68-81-125-196.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:44 ok (car (member :sbcl-uses-sb-rotate-byte *features)) gives it to me.... 20:15:50 hmmm 20:15:54 (in-package "RANDOM-PACKAGE") (member 'sbcl-uses-sb-rotate-byte *features*) one wonder what random-package::sbcl-uses-sb-rotate-byte would do in *features*... 20:15:55 homie: why "car"? 20:16:20 i don't need the tail! 20:16:27 What do you need? 20:16:29 homie: if you'd really be interested in the return value, you'd use find 20:16:29 only the match 20:16:46 homie: what you need is something other than nil. 20:16:54 :sbcl-uses-sb-rotate-byte would already give you the symbol, there's no need to search it in *features*. 20:16:54 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:04 homie: but you want to know whether something is in *features*, so your code would look like (when (member :foo-bar-baz *features*) (do-something)) 20:17:14 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-175-225.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:19 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-wleinomradfdyqqy] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:17:58 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:19:28 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-180-93.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:19:42 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:23:47 benny [~benny@i577A2A0E.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:24:36 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 20:24:52 -!- longtheta [u4275@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-uvarenktncxkttmu] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 20:25:57 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d868351.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:21 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 20:29:22 int122h [~int116h@109.162.170.59] has joined #lisp 20:31:38 homie: I'm sorry your brain doesn't seem to activate upon my questions... Here is your answer: (find "rotate" *features* :test (lambda (regexp feature) (cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings regexp (symbol-name feature)))) ; it still doesn't work like you want, you should try "ROTATE" instead of "rotate"... 20:33:45 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3895.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:35:04 urandom__ [~user@p548A25EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:36:45 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:38:16 -!- k9quaint-wk [~k9quaint-@64.197.122.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:39:36 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-136.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:40:46 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.15.205] has joined #lisp 20:41:07 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:41:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:49:57 mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has joined #lisp 20:50:17 -!- int122h is now known as execv 20:51:12 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@88.208.105.6] has quit [Changing host] 20:51:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:53:16 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@adaptive.cs.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:54:25 -!- mtd [~martin@67.207.131.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:54:25 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:54:26 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:26 ok thank you pjb 20:54:45 -!- execv [~int116h@109.162.170.59] has left #lisp 20:54:57 Guest30894 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:06 homie: why did you try to apply cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings on a list instead of a string? 21:01:04 -!- duomo [~duomo@d90h27.public.simons-rock.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:02:34 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@242.Red-88-24-175.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 21:02:47 -!- hagish__ [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:03:24 superflit [~superflit@71-33-148-136.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:29 i got it case insensitive now find "(?i)rotate" *features* :test (lambda (regexp feature) (cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings regexp (symbol-name feature))) 21:03:48 homie: why did you try to apply cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings on a list instead of a string? 21:04:05 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d868351.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:04:21 pjb: i thought maybe there's a way to coerce a list as string ? 21:04:40 There are several ways. But you need to know what you're doing. 21:04:52 hmmm ok 21:04:58 homie: in lisp, there's no automatic coertion. This is not C++. 21:05:11 allright 21:06:35 Also, why are you using cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings instead of eg. just cl-ppcre:scan 21:07:49 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e039.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:09 good question 21:08:09 homie: (find "(?i)rotate" *features* :test (function cl-ppcre:scan) :key (function symbol-name)) 21:08:28 -!- huangho [~vitor@187.81.135.156] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:09:08 heh better yet 21:09:30 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-24-199-203-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:09:45 But then, if you only search for a substring such as "rotate", you don't need a regexp: (find "ROTATE" *features* :test (function search) :key (function symbol-name)) 21:09:53 -!- hyde____ [~hyde@a88-113-48-212.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:10:04 i just don't get why i get the result once in purple and once in white ....when i eval that in emacs sbcl buffer several times..... 21:10:57 Move over the result and type M-x customize-face RET to see what face it's in (then C-g to cancel). 21:11:37 s/Move /More/ 21:12:57 s/More/Move / I'm tired... 21:13:23 np 21:13:32 hyde____ [~hyde@a88-113-48-212.elisa-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 21:13:43 font-lock-builtin-face, nil 21:14:08 font-lock-string-face, nil 21:14:14 ok alternating still 21:14:18 between those 21:14:26 See, font locking works well. It distinguishes strings from built-ins... 21:16:18 no there's something flaky about it, my :key and :test strings are no more colored 21:16:26 when i type in 21:16:26 Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@46.152.66.148] has joined #lisp 21:16:49 Perhaps you have a stray " in your buffer? 21:16:59 Type M-x check-parens RET 21:18:00 DamienCassou [~cassou@fibz10.fh-potsdam.de] has joined #lisp 21:18:00 hmmm, right 21:18:10 hi 21:18:12 there was an extra ") at the end 21:18:23 but the alternating colors are still in effect tho 21:18:29 i wonder*....... 21:18:45 How can I get the source code of a function from its name please? 21:18:59 DamienCassou: function-lambda-expression, but it may not work. 21:19:35 DamienCassou: better check the source file. Slime can jump to it with M-. 21:19:55 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-odmfsdxqeuwxeazj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:25 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:32 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:23:45 ngz [~user@83.131.77.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:25:41 doxtor [~doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has joined #lisp 21:25:52 !seen xahlee 21:27:44 seems like once the syntax highlighting is active and once not...... 21:27:46 heh 21:27:52 -!- doxtor [~doxtor@unaffiliated/mitja] has quit [Client Quit] 21:27:53 pjb: function-lambda-expression in sbcl returns 3 elements, none of them being the body of my function 21:27:59 maybe it's intended..... 21:28:23 (function-lambda-expression (symbol-function 'mult2)) ;; I would like to get the source code of the 'mult2 function (trivial function defined using defun) 21:29:07 DamienCassou: you can't. look at the source file. if you need to go from a symbol to it's definition in the source file, look at swank to find out how that's done. 21:29:46 DamienCassou: what did I write? 21:30:04 pjb: it might not work :-) 21:30:14 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 21:30:46 DamienCassou: the alternative is to do the bookmarking yourself, see http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/ 21:30:54 H4ns: this is for a lecture, I don't want to show 10 lines of code :-). In Elisp this is the default: 'symbol-function returns a list containing the source code 21:31:10 DamienCassou: not so with common lisp, sorry 21:31:31 DamienCassou: you're wrong. Try: (progn (defun f (x) (if (< x 0) 1 (* x (f (1- x))))) (byte-compile 'f) (symbol-function 'f)) 21:32:44 DamienCassou: use slime and M-. 21:32:48 pjb: sbcl tells me that 'byte-compile is not defined 21:33:03 DamienCassou: yes, because you're wrong about emacs lisp and I provided emacs lisp code. 21:33:50 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 21:33:51 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 21:34:01 pjb: remove 'byte-compile and it works :-) 21:34:28 DamienCassou: with common lisp, compilation is the default. 21:34:36 pjb: I don't understand what you propose to do from slime and M-. ; I would like lisp code to do the same, not ask slime about it 21:34:58 You could use clisp. 21:35:30 In clisp, (defun f (x) (if (< x 0) 1 (* x (f (1- x))))) (function-lambda-expression (symbol-function 'f)) --> (LAMBDA (X) (DECLARE (SYSTEM::IN-DEFUN F)) (BLOCK F (IF (< X 0) 1 (* X (F (1- X)))))) ; #(NIL NIL NIL NIL ((DECLARATION OPTIMIZE DECLARATION))) ; F 21:36:08 aint that beautiful? 21:36:17 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:36:33 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:37 DamienCassou: you are holding a lecture on lisp? 21:37:26 prxq: I will give a 1h30 lecture on meta-programming with common lisp. 21:37:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.114.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:37:51 If you don't want to use the source file, you should do something like ibcl. 21:37:51 DamienCassou: but I reckon you don't know much about it 21:37:53 pjb: can I configure sbcl to stop compiling? 21:38:03 -!- paul0 [~user@200.146.127.182.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:38:10 There's an option in sbcl to use an interpreter. Check the doc. 21:38:42 pjb: would that work? 21:39:05 I'm not sure. In any case, you'd get something like: (LAMBDA (X) (DECLARE (SYSTEM::IN-DEFUN F)) (BLOCK F (IF (< X 0) 1 (* X (F (1- X)))))) as in clisp. 21:39:27 prxq: I simply wanted to show that a function is a list which can be manipulated to produce a new function. 21:39:38 DamienCassou: the point is that it's false. 21:39:58 A function is not a list. It's a function. In CL the type function is disjoint from the type list. 21:40:00 hagish__ [~hagish@pD9FBE0C0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:23 pjb: ok, I get that now :-), sorry. 21:40:24 Granted, it's true in emacs lisp. 21:40:26 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:26 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-120-116.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:40:52 pjb: so there is no way to construct a function from a function by manipulating its source code? 21:40:59 DamienCassou: i'd say that you have a completely wrong idea about metaprogramming in lisp 21:41:15 Of course it's possible. But creating a function from a sexp is mostly a one-way route. 21:41:24 DamienCassou: of course there is, but for that you keep the source code in the first place. 21:41:26 You have to keep the source around if you want to further manipulate it. 21:41:41 Hence ibcl, or emacs. 21:41:43 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:45 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 21:42:04 ibcl? 21:42:04 DamienCassou: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/ 21:42:17 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:42:25 prxq: that was just introductory. I will then talk about CLOS and, e.g., how to intercept variable change 21:43:25 It would be nice to reproduce an environment like Interlisp. But since we all use unix or unix-like systems, we keep sources in files... 21:43:53 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:27 DamienCassou: what do you mean by 'intercept variable change'? 21:44:33 DamienCassou: an easy way to get the source sexps is (with-open-file (src "example.lisp") (loop for sexp = (read src nil src) until (eql sexp src) collect sexp)) 21:44:34 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@59.37.63.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:44:58 an easier way is to shadow defun and have it keep the source :-) 21:45:09 That's what ibcl is about. 21:45:21 pjb: ibcl defines get-source which seems to work 21:45:53 I guess it is necessary to load ibcl before doing anything else 21:46:02 Yes. 21:46:16 DamienCassou: I worry a bit about you having a wrong idea of what lisp / cl is about. 21:46:31 prxq: I got that also :-) 21:46:56 Also, there's some hacks to be able to load sources that use "CL" to let them use "IBCL" instead. 21:47:21 prxq: by "intercept variable change" I mean it's possible to plug behavior that gets executed when an inst var changes 21:47:24 Well, CL is a tad less introspective than some older lisps... 21:47:45 DamienCassou: we call them slots in CLOS. 21:47:55 DamienCassou: you mean a slot value in an instance of a class. Ok. 21:48:25 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-139-233.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:48:37 pjb: I know that. I have one month to dive into CL again, I forgot most of it 21:49:18 pjb: prxq: fortunately, I had a good teacher who explained the concepts, I just have to remind the details 21:50:11 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-66-65-55-75.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:50:19 -!- Guest30894 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:50:56 kovolvo2 [~user@p4FDAC9BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:52:04 DamienCassou: have you checked grahams "on lisp"? There's a bit more on metaprogramming. Also, I'd recomend "the art of the meta object protocol". I think that gives a good idea on what metaprogramming is in lisp. 21:52:35 kaidw [~kaidw@199.68.199.101] has joined #lisp 21:52:39 DamienCassou: we don't that much list processing these days... 21:52:41 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 21:53:05 -!- kovolvo [~user@p4FDAC9BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 21:53:44 prxq: I don't want to talk about list processing. But showing that it's possible to get the source code of a function, modify it, and run the new version can be quite interesting 21:53:55 prxq: at least I find it interesting 21:54:04 DamienCassou: the sad truth is: you can't. 21:54:21 prxq: thanks for the books. I already read part of graham's "on lisp", but not the other 21:54:44 DamienCassou: except in very non-realistic circumstances. if you want to describe metaprogramming in common lisp, describe macros and the mop. 21:55:25 DamienCassou: no problem. I also find that interesting, but we do that very rarely :-) 21:55:44 although macros go a bit in that direction. 21:56:09 *prxq* at times takes source code, replaces the symbols, and compiles that. 21:56:20 -!- kovolvo2 [~user@p4FDAC9BD.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 21:56:41 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:56:51 prxq: H4ns: I like macros too, but I'm not sure how meta-programming is macro-programming. Basically it's just preprocessing to me. Am I wrong? 21:57:07 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 21:57:48 DamienCassou: well, macros in CL operate on the parse trees and their semantics. That's pretty unique afaict. 21:57:50 DamienCassou: macros can be programming at the meta level. generate macros that generate macros, write macros that do things "underneath" the language that is written by the programmer. 21:58:37 prxq: agree with you, but I don't call that meta-programming 21:58:43 also, macros have the full language at their command, at may (and do) use it. 21:58:58 DamienCassou: what do you call meta programming? 21:59:35 to me meta-programming means playing with a program (when it is the same program that plays and is played with, I call that reflexion) 21:59:48 I seem to remember there being some form in SBCL which disables FP traps within its body. Can anyone remind me what this is? 22:00:21 -!- H4ns [5b3d5d05@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.93.5] has quit [Quit: (...)] 22:00:23 -!- kaidw [~kaidw@199.68.199.101] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 22:01:05 sb-int:with-float-traps-masked doesn't seem to be what I recall, but does seem sufficient 22:01:35 Ralith: maybe they changed the name in the meantime 22:02:02 certainly possible, though that would have been recent! 22:02:41 DamienCassou: that only leaves things like partial evaluation and compilers, pretty much. Or to put it another way, there is no metaprogramming in C++? 22:02:57 (just wondering where you draw the line) 22:03:17 Ralith: let me check. I think I have some code that uses it lying around 22:03:31 oo, thanks 22:04:23 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-azmlphdqjaqmzxog] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:04:29 I keep thinking it should be sb-something:without-fp-traps but apropos finds nothing of the sort 22:04:41 prxq: it looks like I could take a broader definition and talk about macros. There is a wikipedia page about "template metaprogramming" 22:04:43 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wbklduybggqjskyx] has joined #lisp 22:06:15 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-wbklduybggqjskyx] has quit [Client Quit] 22:06:32 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-gvgjmmbrnvpjrovn] has joined #lisp 22:06:37 DamienCassou: macros are like templates, but on a gigantic dosis of steroids. :-) 22:06:48 -!- ngz [~user@83.131.77.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:06:56 DamienCassou: the fact that you get to operate on the parse trees makes a huge difference. 22:07:11 prxq: I know, I like them (on the contrary I don't really know C++ templates, nor C++) 22:07:26 cyygni [~cyygni@cm145-159.resnet.csumb.edu] has joined #lisp 22:07:46 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-gvgjmmbrnvpjrovn] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:02 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-pfbszzvhfnqxzrxi] has joined #lisp 22:08:20 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-pfbszzvhfnqxzrxi] has quit [Client Quit] 22:08:23 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:32 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-htswqmagvppszngq] has joined #lisp 22:15:45 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:15:49 Ralith: it seems I lost code. that's not that tragic, i probably deleted it in anger :-) 22:16:16 hah 22:16:24 Ralith: but i can't tell you what I used. I think I did set the trap flags before calling and reset them afterwards 22:16:26 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:16:32 well, I think I've found what I need, even if it wasn't what I initially had in mind. 22:16:43 Ralith: what do you use? 22:17:06 I was going to try sb-int:with-float-traps-masked 22:17:45 since that is documented as doing exactly what I want, plus some added control 22:18:37 indeed. 22:19:05 out of curiosity - what is your use case? 22:20:16 debugging, actually: AMD's GLX implementation is crashing when called by glop, first with a divide-by-zero, and then with segfaults. I'm wondering if the divide-by-zero might actually be normal behavior. 22:20:29 and if SBCL's catching it might be the cause 22:22:00 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e039.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 22:22:13 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-182-185.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:22:26 the code I used that on did divide-by-zero's as normal behavior. It was C++ code, and there those traps are off by default (at least in g++). So programmers in that langs don't care nearly as much. 22:22:37 marsell [~marsell@120.22.137.245] has joined #lisp 22:22:51 Ralith: You running C code, called from SBCL? 22:23:26 yep 22:23:26 arstoien [~user@c-98-229-29-223.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:42 prxq: that was my suspicion! 22:23:56 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-148-136.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:23:56 Then you're probably right. The default C behavior is to ignore FP traps. SBCL catches them. 22:24:02 (sb-int:set-floating-point-modes :traps nil) 22:24:04 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:24:40 superflit [~superflit@71-33-148-136.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:24:52 *prxq* ended up hating that code base with PASSION 22:25:14 (that wasn't the only problem) 22:25:50 omgz0r [~matt@wnpgmb0909w-ad01-72-143.dynamic.mtsallstream.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:29 -!- gtrak [~gtrak```@173.13.240.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:28:58 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.137.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:29:21 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 22:30:25 abul [~razzaque5@119.30.38.72] has joined #lisp 22:30:59 -!- abul [~razzaque5@119.30.38.72] has quit [Client Quit] 22:31:39 prxq: pjb: thank you very much for all your answers. It looks like ibcl works ok for the demo to the students 22:32:28 I will certainly talk about macros 22:32:38 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 22:33:31 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@rrcs-24-199-203-189.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:35:24 DamienCassou: i hope you realize that you will probably give your students the wrong impression about what lisp is about 22:35:40 marsell [~marsell@101.116.45.24] has joined #lisp 22:35:47 I don't think so. 22:35:48 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-htswqmagvppszngq] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:36:17 It might be unusual today, but it was quite common before Common Lisp. Check the Interlisp environment for example. 22:36:47 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@68.91.203.34] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:37:01 Further, we need more source level lisp tools. So it's a good idea to speak about that. 22:37:32 I think giving an impression that suggests lisp is about something that is unusual today would indeed be misleading. 22:38:07 we did stop doing that stuff regularly for a reason 22:38:24 i still fin that pjb has more than just a point 22:38:28 Teachers must speak about the future, not about today. 22:38:31 s/fin/find/ 22:38:42 pjb: the lecture is not about lisp, it's about meta-programming. And it lasts only for 1h30 so there are few chances they will get excited enough to start using lisp after the session. I just want to convey some knowledge about meta-programming and the fact that different languages propose very different stuff. 22:38:49 pjb: sure, but they should generally make it clear which is which 22:39:44 my colleagues will present meta-programming features of smalltalk, java, ... 22:39:49 DamienCassou: that's ok. As long as you portray it as the weirdestest sci-fi lang around ;-) 22:40:08 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-099-088.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 22:40:12 prxq: I will, with your name along with your citation :-) 22:41:32 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vilmccbpsxfyanka] has joined #lisp 22:42:08 eulyix [~charles@2.26.61.20] has joined #lisp 22:42:16 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:43:37 Ralith: (SB-INT:SET-FLOATING-POINT-MODES :TRAPS NIL) disables all FPU traps in SBCL. Try it if you suspect that catching FPU exceptions causes any problems. 22:44:08 I would love to finish the lesson by saying that the slides were realized with common lisp and showing a demo where I modify the slides on the fly. But time more time might be required 22:44:19 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:44:55 akovalenko: that's the plan! 22:45:02 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.142.117] has joined #lisp 22:45:51 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:09 good night 22:47:13 thanks again 22:47:22 I will certainly come back with more questions later 22:47:23 -!- DamienCassou [~cassou@fibz10.fh-potsdam.de] has left #lisp 22:53:25 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-148-136.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:04 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-148-136.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:54:04 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 22:55:51 There's nothing like disabling all FPU traps and getting nice NaN as the answer to everything. :-) 22:56:44 indeed :-) that's why with-float-traps-masked is a better option 22:56:53 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:59:25 centipedefarmer [~centipede@207.250.67.90] has joined #lisp 22:59:51 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:03:20 -!- cheater_ [~cheater@178-26-50-195-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:06:46 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:27 -!- agumonkey [~agu@34.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:12:06 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.154] has joined #lisp 23:12:16 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:12:44 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:13:50 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-vilmccbpsxfyanka] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:14:26 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-136.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 23:15:17 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.136.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:15:47 -!- lars_t_h [~lars_t_h@94.144.63.1] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16:52 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:18:45 coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:40 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-soofiuezamxavjzq] has joined #lisp 23:20:08 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c04c8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:20:41 -!- nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-172-71.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:12 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:23 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:23:37 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 23:23:41 -!- centipedefarmer [~centipede@207.250.67.90] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:26:01 -!- eulyix [~charles@2.26.61.20] has quit [Quit: To iterate is human, to recurse divine] 23:26:27 drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:27:00 prxq: That's what matlisp does when calling out the the Fortran routines. Mostly because the Fortran compiler compiles code with traps disabled. 23:27:19 -!- nha [~prefect@2001:470:d552:23:216:41ff:fee4:6aa1] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:27:30 nitro_idiot [~nitro_idi@EM114-51-129-142.pool.e-mobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 23:28:36 -!- drdo [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:30:31 -!- lanthan__ [~ze@pD9E3AC24.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:31:09 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 23:33:53 -!- phrixos [~clarkema@unaffiliated/phrixos] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:36:37 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:37:19 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip68-97-195-24.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:39:50 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:40:21 jaminja [~jaminja@76.76.24.43] has joined #lisp 23:40:31 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@76.76.24.43] has quit [Changing host] 23:40:32 jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has joined #lisp 23:41:20 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 23:42:49 nialo- [~nialo@ool-182d1a3c.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 23:42:51 lanthan__ [~ze@pD9554298.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:16 -!- Zulu_Inuoe [~zulu12@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:45:41 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:49:34 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 23:51:55 stupid question: what is the easiest way to take every second item of a list? is there some loop-foo? 23:52:10 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:52:41 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:53:29 okay, found it - sorry for noise 23:55:44 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-148-136.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:55:46 *Phooodus* ponders a fun answer with maplist and oddp, but decides not to 23:56:54 because I'm even more of a newbie, what was the answer you found? 23:57:04 ISF [~ivan@201.82.172.81] has joined #lisp 23:57:49 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 23:58:28 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.22.207] has joined #lisp 23:58:28 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:57 nialo-: loop for x in y by #'cddr 23:58:58 I imagine. 23:59:23 (loop for elt in my-list by #'cddr 23:59:26 yes 23:59:40 )