00:01:00 todun [~todun@seas557.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 00:01:02 sea4ever [~sea4ever@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 00:03:02 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:12 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:03:57 marsell [~marsell@120.22.228.226] has joined #lisp 00:06:03 qsun [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 00:06:03 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8758.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:07:58 benny [~benny@i577A159D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:08:53 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:14:16 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.245.228] has joined #lisp 00:14:50 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:20:41 -!- sea4ever [~sea4ever@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has left #lisp 00:21:12 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 00:24:00 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:24:56 mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.114] has joined #lisp 00:31:17 -!- todun [~todun@seas557.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: todun] 00:32:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:36:35 drdo` [~drdo@89-180-182-177.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 00:38:38 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:43 -!- drdo [~drdo@89.180.179.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:41:03 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@203.145.92.114] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 00:46:35 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #lisp 00:46:56 -!- brandelune_ [~suzume@pl316.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune_] 00:50:48 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:53:31 lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 00:55:13 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:57:05 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-182-68-199.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:57:28 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.12.121.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:01:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:02:41 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:08:24 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:09:08 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 01:11:10 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:14:48 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:16:05 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.243.79] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:16:29 guther: people figure out lispers are more freaky, plus "suddenly found dead" sounds more interesting then "after a long chronic illness" 01:17:34 mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has joined #lisp 01:17:34 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:19:21 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-101-79.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:20 enticeing [~chris@74.194.112.188] has joined #lisp 01:22:25 hello 01:23:55 todun [~todun@seas557.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 01:24:53 could someone help me? 01:25:16 enticeing: Just ask a question and someone might. 01:25:38 Well, i'm goofing around with sockets trying to connect to an irc server. 01:25:42 and it connects 01:25:45 coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:57 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:12 but it hangs at "No ident response" when it should continue. i think it might be a consequence of me using socket-streams, but i have no idea 01:26:22 it should send me a "PING" message 01:26:37 or at least something 01:26:54 enticeing: This is with sockets, or are you using cl-irc? 01:27:36 Bike: sockets 01:27:42 well, socket-streams 01:27:46 Kron [~Kron@69.166.20.172] has joined #lisp 01:28:12 -!- Kron is now known as Guest16863 01:28:51 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-9-216.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: gym] 01:28:54 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 01:31:06 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 01:31:33 nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.187.28] has joined #lisp 01:33:00 do you have any idea why it's doing this? 01:33:51 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-164-149.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:13 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-164-149.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:17 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 01:37:33 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:38:57 can someone at least look over the code? http://pastebin.com/cm2AyBUX 01:39:50 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.245.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:40:48 drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:01 Have you tried ~% instead of \r\n? 01:45:31 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:47:02 enticeing: austinh is right, Lisp strings aren't C strings. (string-equal "\r\n" "rn") => T 01:47:15 -!- lutok [~user@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has left #lisp 01:51:28 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:55:27 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-162-17.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:57:56 millerti [~millerti@76-232-38-36.lightspeed.clmboh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:58:27 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.228.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:58:43 enticeing: Maybe the problem is trying to authenticate before Esper can tell you about your lack of ident response? 02:00:34 When I tried to learn Lisp before, the LOOP macro really confused me. Well, I found some really good documentation online (several, actually), and read all about it, and I also found the source code to the macro. This is something that perhaps a functional language purist might be bothered by, but without any compiler magic at all, an incredibly powerful domain-specific language has been created to allow the user to code bas 02:00:34 any kind of loop they can imagine. 02:00:55 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-163-114.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:02:58 coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:36 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-219-175.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:52 -!- S1am [~guest@eth-209.20-homell.natm.ru] has left #lisp 02:11:49 msxx [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:52 hello. this works, but the arguments are reversed compared to pushnew. how to change the order of arguments? http://paste.lisp.org/display/125548 02:15:18 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.219.95] has joined #lisp 02:16:01 msxx: it's not so trivial if you want to preserve left-to-right subform evaluation order (you'll need get-setf-expansion) 02:16:55 <_3b> slyrus: are i-var and j-var correct in opticl:set-region-pixels ? 02:18:30 msxx: no, sorry, that's easier (evaluating object early is trivial..) 02:19:49 so what should I do? 02:19:56 msxx: but the order of argument you want is really weird (like a required argument _after_ &rest. We'd have to emulate it) 02:20:19 i want it to match pushnew order 02:21:13 did you notice that pushnew takes *one* object? 02:21:38 -!- xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:22:05 yes. I want to do that as well. perhaps I should name it differently to avoid confusion with append function 02:22:42 msxx: check my annotation: http://paste.lisp.org/+2OVG/1 02:24:16 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.219.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:24:30 great thanks. think I should change the name though? I just realized it's quite different than append function 02:25:25 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:25:33 msxx: you should abandon your desire to have such a thing, that's all. But if you decide to have it, selecting a good name for it is a tough question for me.. 02:26:07 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:25 why? 02:26:35 <_3b> does that work on empty lists? 02:26:56 sure, that was the whole point in using a macro 02:27:08 _3b: appendf is another modify macro, obviously 02:27:09 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 02:27:48 <_3b> ah, maybe my question is whether there is any point in using appendf there then 02:28:07 <_3b> if something else deals with updating the binding, no reason to update the binding in the function 02:29:03 *_3b* assumed appendf was a modify macro, so was confused by it being called on a local binding that wasn't used afterwards 02:29:03 yeah true 02:29:03 yep, append would be just as good.. 02:29:37 <_3b> better, since it wouldn't cause that sort of confusion :) 02:30:34 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:30:35 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839A07.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:31:37 Yuuhi [benni@p54839A56.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:54 msxx: like there is a push-nreverse idiom for growing lists, there is push - nreverse - delete-duplicates, for example. if it doesn't fit well, maybe using lists for your purpose is wrong in the first place -- e.g. there is vector-push-extend, which grows its tail.. 02:33:35 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-45-26.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:09 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-39-234-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:34:17 -!- slyrus_ is now known as slyrus 02:35:46 enticeing: ident is an internet protocol used to identify the user who established the connection. You should run an ident server on your computer (and configure your routers to let ident requests pass thru). 02:35:54 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:36:04 enticeing: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ident 02:37:07 (you could also implement the ident server in the same process that connects to the irc server, but there may be other processes connecting to other servers, they cannot all listen to the ident port at the same time). 02:37:37 coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:38:12 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 02:39:23 holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:40 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:32 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@ip72-200-211-242.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:44:01 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.171.195] has joined #lisp 02:44:07 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 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[~harovali@r190-64-97-174.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 03:27:37 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 03:28:41 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:29:27 -!- billstclair [wws@clozure-E7FD312C.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout] 03:30:27 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:30:54 -!- Megatv [~Megatv@189.71.126.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:31:02 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:32:09 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:32:40 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 03:32:45 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.114.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:33:39 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:35:01 hi 03:35:20 anyone said hi to sun yet ? 03:36:52 no sun here yet :-) 03:37:56 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 03:38:09 mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has joined #lisp 03:39:00 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.68] has joined #lisp 03:39:20 who is Sun? 03:39:48 <_3b> slyrus: opticl:transform-image doesn't seem to handle :bilinear with :background correctly 03:42:14 hi akovalenko :P 03:44:09 morphism1 [~Nevermind@113.190.171.195] has joined #lisp 03:44:10 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.171.195] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:46:35 akovalenko, are you on window ? 03:47:09 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 03:47:33 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.187.45] has joined #lisp 03:49:20 -!- holycow [~holycow@host-64-151-208-2.bchsia.in2net.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 03:49:42 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 03:50:44 gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-2.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:10 -!- antgreen 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seconds] 06:06:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:09:15 _3b: do you have a patch? 06:11:51 <_3b> for transform-image? not a particularly good one i suspect 06:12:17 <_3b> it seems to work, but probably could be more efficient 06:13:16 <_3b> %affine-transform-image uses (values-list background) when it means (elt background channel) or something like that 06:14:20 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:26 *_3b* made it iterate over background in the LOOP, but i suspect moving it to a typed array outside the loop, then accessing that with aref might be more efficient 06:14:28 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-253.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:16:17 hmm... OK, I'll try to take a look over the weekend. thanks for the report! 06:16:22 are you using opticl? 06:16:34 <_3b> yeah 06:16:41 cool. for what? 06:16:51 <_3b> messing around with the shredder challenge thing 06:17:02 ah, neat 06:17:03 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.28.90] has joined #lisp 06:17:25 *_3b* also managed to make a tiff retrospectiff didn't like, by rotating one of the files from that with feh 06:17:33 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:18:34 hmm... OK, let me know if you want me to look at that too 06:19:01 *_3b* just went back to loading the original 06:19:38 <_3b> if you care, the problem is read-rgb-strip got an unknown value for compression, 32946 06:20:04 hmm... OK 06:20:06 thanks! 06:20:11 jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has joined #lisp 06:22:39 <_3b> looks like wikipedia thinks that means deflate 06:26:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-101-79.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:29:26 platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:38 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Quit: btb] 06:30:08 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 06:31:13 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:31:35 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 06:35:47 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 06:41:20 -!- platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:42:04 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:42:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:46:10 how would you define "Let" in Lisp ? 06:46:14 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:46:28 As a special operator 06:47:18 example ? 06:47:19 doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:47:31 <_3b> you can define it in terms of lambda, but special operator is probably easier to optimize (and CL specifies it as a special operator anyway) 06:47:36 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:47:51 compiler-internal/assembler voodoo 06:48:33 killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 06:48:33 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has quit [Client Quit] 06:49:59 <_3b> see http://www.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/MetaCircular.html for various ways to implement it if you have other special operators already implemented 06:50:04 killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 06:50:05 nostoi [~nostoi@216.Red-83-33-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:07 what I am having now is "+ - * / lambda if" , so need more ? 06:50:52 you need eval 06:51:02 <_3b> CL specifies http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_ababa.htm 06:51:39 do you want to design a CL? 06:52:51 <_3b> + - * / are functions, IF is a macro (as is LAMBDA for that matter) 06:53:12 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:18 <_3b> so none of those are really 'primitive' (common) lisp operators 06:53:48 if is a special if cond is not. 06:54:12 and lambda needn't be special if let is. 06:55:36 <_3b> nah 06:55:41 <_3b> you can implement if with funcall 06:56:08 <_3b> and all the magic of lambda is in FUNCTION/COERCE/COMPILE etc 06:56:26 spacefrogg, I"m learning to do that 06:56:28 you yourself posted a link that mentions IF as a special operator 06:56:39 _3b: ^^ 06:56:54 <_3b> right, it is specified to be a special operator in CL, but CL doesn't make any attempt to make that a minimal st 06:56:57 <_3b> *set 06:57:15 <_3b> it has both LET and LET* for example 06:57:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:57:42 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 06:58:17 you're right. 06:58:37 H4ns [5ddb932b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.147.43] has joined #lisp 06:58:39 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:58:42 no you're not 06:58:53 you need either COND or IF to be special 06:59:14 <_3b> most of the "could implement X in terms of Y" things here aren't much better than "could implement numbers with church numerals" though 06:59:27 yeah 06:59:59 that's why the "plenty" of specials in CL don't really harm 07:00:22 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 07:00:27 *|3b|* switches clients, since the monitor _3b is displayed on is overheating :/ 07:01:31 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:01:34 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Client Quit] 07:01:50 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 07:02:37 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 07:03:02 <|3b|> IF can expand to a function that calls one of 2 closures depending on whether the condition arg is true or not 07:03:13 jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has joined #lisp 07:03:28 <|3b|> it might be hard to implement that function in the language being defined, but it is still just a normal function, not a special operator 07:03:48 *|3b|* seems to remember that there is some clever trick to do it directly though 07:04:17 can you prevent the second argument from being evaluated? 07:04:54 <|3b|> (defmacro if (cond true false) `(%if ,cond (lambda () ,true) (lambda () ,false))) 07:05:47 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:06:01 <|3b|> ah, duh... first example in the hbaker link is the clever way to do it :) 07:07:09 ;) 07:07:12 ok 07:07:15 nice 07:11:47 nothing really wrong with having plenty of primitives, so long as they're not excessively magic. 07:12:29 <|3b|> just make sure anything not on that list has a macroexpansion if you want conformant CL 07:12:47 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.187.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:13:06 platypine [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:14:33 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:14:56 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:16:33 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 07:16:34 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:21 qsun` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:24:01 -!- qsun [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:26:38 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:27:25 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@24.52.246.61] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:27:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-108-147.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:27:45 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 07:27:53 good morning fellas 07:27:58 qsun`` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:28:26 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@216.Red-83-33-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:29:41 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:53 -!- qsun` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:30:54 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-38-197.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:54 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-38-197.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:30:54 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:32:25 qsun``` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:33:20 reasonpun [~Adium@60.247.47.169] has joined #lisp 07:33:53 -!- reasonpun [~Adium@60.247.47.169] has left #lisp 07:34:00 -!- qsun`` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:34:12 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:34:12 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:35:46 reasonpun [~Adium@60.247.47.169] has joined #lisp 07:36:06 -!- reasonpun [~Adium@60.247.47.169] has left #lisp 07:36:49 qsun```` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:37:49 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-4.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:38:30 -!- qsun``` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:38:57 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:39:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.172.20] has joined #lisp 07:39:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@95.56.172.20] has quit [Changing host] 07:39:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:39:39 qsun````` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:40:03 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 07:41:56 -!- qsun```` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:42:25 mishoo [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has joined #lisp 07:43:05 -!- easyE [XX3VVtutKn@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:47:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:51:25 reasonpun [~Adium@60.247.47.169] has joined #lisp 07:51:49 -!- reasonpun [~Adium@60.247.47.169] has left #lisp 07:51:53 -!- qsun````` [~user@123-243-18-22.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:54:16 tehf [~hefner@c-69-255-57-56.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:55:37 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:22 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 07:59:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:53 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 08:01:09 -!- H4ns [5ddb932b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.147.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 08:02:43 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.60.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:03:59 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cbwmwhuantrlwvje] has joined #lisp 08:04:58 khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:05:11 hi 08:05:16 pjb: hi 08:05:17 hi 08:05:53 i keep hearing about quicklisp - what exactly is it? I've tried to use it to install sbcl and it didn't quite work out before i lost interest, but i'm still curious 08:10:02 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:10:40 I'm not really sure how you would go about using quicklisp to install sbcl. 08:10:59 given that you generally need SBCL (or another impl) installed to run quicklisp 08:11:24 yeah i already had an old sbcl install from ubuntu which i used to run through the quicklisp example 08:11:52 then you already have sbcl 08:11:57 oh well it's probably just exciting for CL folk :) 08:12:06 yea an old version, but i was hoping quicklisp would make it easy to stay up to date 08:12:16 of course it is. it is a CL programm loading other CL libraries 08:12:17 that's what your distribution's package manager is for. 08:12:52 spacefrogg, i mean it's underwhelming to everyone else (perl, python folk etc) 08:12:56 H4ns [4ffc8c7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.140.122] has joined #lisp 08:13:05 who have always had a way to install packages for decades 08:14:07 khaliG: really, you update your perl using CPAN? 08:14:26 jdz, nope 08:14:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:14:39 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 08:14:41 khaliG: what is your question 08:14:48 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 08:15:29 spacefrogg: 2.011 (quicklisp asdf) didn't work with gsll 08:15:56 Posterdati: that is his question? 08:16:42 no 08:16:45 Posterdati: and, maybe. but I did not claimed that it did 08:17:27 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wifi-out.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:17:49 you have to tell "it is a CL program that would load other CL libraries" 08:18:14 khaliG: quicklisp is something completely different from SBCL. it should run on older versions of sbcl as well. what it mainly does, is allow you to easily download other people's code, so it's simpler for you to reuse their work. where that situation wasn't particularly good in the past, it is nice now. 08:20:41 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 08:21:06 madnificent, thank you 08:21:53 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-173.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 08:25:22 khaliG: you're welcome! quicklisp can also download all dependencies you don't already have (either manually installed, or because you're devving on it) for your own projects. that's handy as well. it boils down to your software not having to be available in quicklisp, but you still getting much of the niceness. 08:25:24 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:55 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:04 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:29:25 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 08:31:07 -!- am0c [~am0c@112.149.169.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:31:34 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 08:31:38 -!- Sysop_fb 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the future is to build it.] 10:01:13 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:23 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:09:51 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:10:07 manuel_ [~manuel_@p5792177A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:45 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 10:10:45 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 10:10:45 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 10:12:00 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 10:13:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:15:55 -!- zfx [~zfx@unaffiliated/zfx] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:13 drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:17:17 -!- _deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has left #lisp 10:21:14 am0c [~am0c@80.81.68.17] has joined #lisp 10:21:38 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:22:19 akovalen` [~anton@95.72.102.59] has joined #lisp 10:23:11 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:23:49 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:24:03 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.96.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:26:55 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 10:27:06 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 10:27:10 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 10:28:12 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.15.205] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 10:28:12 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:28:49 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 10:29:12 -!- easyE [AOw08DOB8G@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:29:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:16 msxx [~msxx@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 10:29:23 algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-4-223.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 10:29:36 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 10:29:42 hello, how come I'm getting error here only in CCL? is this a bug? 10:29:48 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 10:29:57 (getf '(:foo 10 20) :foo) 10:30:15 value (:FOO 10 20) is not of the expected type (SATISFIES CCL::PLISTP). 10:30:28 nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:44 '(:foo 10 20) is not a plist: '(:foo 10 :bar 20) is 10:35:01 it works on sbcl and clisp though 10:35:17 and allegro and lispworks.. 10:36:08 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:36:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:36:16 i'm trying to use cl-html-parse, and thought i could just use getf to go around the returned list 10:36:37 is this a bug in ccl? 10:36:41 no 10:36:44 ccl is more strict apparently, but not a bug imho 10:36:51 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:37:00 msxx: what do you need to get from that list, the second item? 10:38:41 aerique: the first 10:38:56 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:40:31 I'm getting a list like this. (:HTML (:HEAD (...))) and wanted to do (getf (getf doc :html) :head) etc 10:40:51 msxx: write a function to use instead of the getf 10:40:51 look at FIRST 10:41:14 msxx: you'll probably use cl:member and cl:second 10:42:28 is there a convention with trailing asterixes in function names? I know let and let*, hunchentoot uses a lot of function* names and I cannot see why? 10:42:59 el-maxo: * is what Ex is a suffix in microsoft's APIs 10:43:10 el-maxo: i.e. "do something slightly different/extended" 10:43:37 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 10:43:59 hmm weird since often there is no (exported) function with that name without the asterisk 10:45:06 el-maxo: it is not a hard rule or anything, more a convention. 10:45:36 okay 10:47:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 10:51:38 ah now I get it 10:52:06 in hunchentoot * functions have *request* for request s their default argument 10:52:16 s/s/as 10:53:20 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 10:55:01 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:57:51 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 10:58:20 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:00:14 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 11:00:57 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:03:58 good afternoon 11:03:59 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:04:05 hagish [~hagish@p57A474C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:39 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:11:11 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 11:15:55 -!- passionke [~Administr@221.12.173.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:19:03 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:19:41 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:20:03 achristianson [~achristia@152.179.75.170] has joined #lisp 11:20:23 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:21:36 -!- gko [~gko@42-74-193-86.dynamic-ip.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:21:59 gko [~gko@111.81.167.2] has joined #lisp 11:26:13 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:26:21 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 11:26:28 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.171.195] has joined #lisp 11:27:43 jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has joined #lisp 11:28:47 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:32:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-108-147.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:44 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:54 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:39:20 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:40:14 Does somebody have an opinion to "Object-Oriented Analysis and Design with Applications (3rd Edition)" ? 11:40:31 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@59.37.63.109] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:41:01 -!- achristianson [~achristia@152.179.75.170] has left #lisp 11:41:43 flip214: i liked the first edition, it even covered clos 11:41:53 (not that it answers your question) 11:43:02 H4ns: thank you. I've already read AMOP, PAIP, ACL, etc. ... is that one sufficiently distict that it's worth its price? 11:44:18 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:45:03 flip214: it covers a completely different topic. i can't comment on the 3rd edition (which is java and uml based, i think), but the first edition was nice in that it covered many different languages and interesting (to me, at the time) approaches to designing systems. 11:45:35 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-254-114.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:46:37 thanks a lot! 11:50:47 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.223] has joined #lisp 11:51:00 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:51:01 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:52:12 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 11:53:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:55:26 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:55:48 tsuru`` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-17-157.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 11:56:10 replore [~replore@p7bc60d12.tkyea111.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:56:38 -!- msxx [~msxx@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 11:57:55 -!- tsuru` [~charlie@adsl-74-179-197-62.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:58:10 -!- replore [~replore@p7bc60d12.tkyea111.ap.so-net.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:24 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:01:55 petter` [~user@217.118.44.36] has joined #lisp 12:02:40 trying to: git clone git://git.b9.com/clsql.git, but keep getting: fatal: read error: Connection reset by peer, are there problems at b9.com? 12:03:25 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:04:29 petter`: the git protocol does not work but http should work 12:04:33 petter`: it is an old problem 12:06:49 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178.88.210.192] has joined #lisp 12:11:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@178.88.210.192] has quit [Changing host] 12:11:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:14:20 Xach: ok, thanks, I'll try http 12:15:57 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-200.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:15:57 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.159.223] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:29 drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:37 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:21:08 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:21:39 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:53 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:26:03 Joreji [~thomas@90-189.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:26:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:29:37 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 12:29:58 -!- algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-4-223.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: algal] 12:30:13 petter`: out of curiosity, why fetch it from git at all? 12:32:25 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.136] has joined #lisp 12:34:03 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.80.122] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:34:30 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.198] has joined #lisp 12:39:02 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:05 todun [~todun@vpl025.wlan.library.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 12:39:37 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:40:52 todun_ [~todun@DHCP097.LIB.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 12:41:53 Xach: thanks, that worked, it's only that the uri that I had was using git 12:42:05 petter`: i mean, why check it out from source control in general. 12:43:19 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 12:44:45 -!- todun [~todun@vpl025.wlan.library.upenn.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:44:45 -!- todun_ is now known as todun 12:44:49 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:48 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.167.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:46:52 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.171.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:47:42 there's push and pop for lists - but how do I shift/unshift? 12:47:50 gko [~gko@111.81.220.11] has joined #lisp 12:47:54 Tasser: you don't 12:48:17 Tasser: push and pop are shift and unshift really. :) 12:48:22 huh? 12:48:39 Tasser: push and pop operate on the beginning of the list. 12:49:21 gigigi [~gigigi@net-2-32-218-71.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 12:49:23 Tasser: lisp has no primitive for appending or removing elements from the end of a list. you can easily roll your own, but be aware of the performance implications. 12:49:40 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 12:49:56 -!- gigigi [~gigigi@net-2-32-218-71.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Client Quit] 12:49:56 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 12:50:13 Tasser: also note that push and pop operate on the binding whereas when you're operating on the end of a list, you are actually changing the list itself. might be too fine a point, though. 12:50:14 Tasser: within LOOP and ITERATE there are the COLLECT resp. COLLECTING. Outside of them you'll have to know where the end is, to extend it 12:50:31 *forms 12:51:53 practical common lisp doesn't mention iterate - is that newer or older than loop? 12:52:09 dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:12 Tasser: it is newer and not part of the standard 12:53:24 so it's worth learning it? 12:53:28 Xach: I usually use quicklisp, but I keep a local copy to perform the fluid-pools hack for weblocks clsql, dunno if that has been fixed yet 12:54:00 hmm, i thought something had been resolved in that regard 12:54:01 Tasser: i'd recommend that you first learn common lisp. 12:54:35 petter`: clsql-fluid is part of quicklisp and i think the hack is no longer needed. 12:54:48 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:54:50 petter`: not completely certain, though, as i don't normally use it. 12:55:42 -!- am0c [~am0c@80.81.68.17] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:44 Xach: ok, I'll google for some info and then try the plain version shipped with quicklisp, that would make things much simpler 12:58:00 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:58:03 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:58:51 X-Scale [email@89.180.150.131] has joined #lisp 12:59:16 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest8665 12:59:21 G'morning all. 13:01:23 flip214: hi 13:01:26 nyef: 'morning 13:03:03 -!- anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:03:10 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p5792177A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 13:03:18 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:04:01 hi nyef 13:06:56 drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has joined #lisp 13:08:00 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:13 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.227.220.73] has joined #lisp 13:11:12 dlowe 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Offline] 13:53:36 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:53:50 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-88-164.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:55:46 Xach: lisptips.com has mysteriously stopped pushing out "A Common Lisp tip every day" since October 23rd. What gives?... (Will we get 5 tips at once to compensate??) 13:56:09 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-63.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 13:56:35 -!- Kron is now known as Guest25169 13:56:51 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:57:15 Hexstream: not enough tips flowing in? 13:57:17 -!- Guest25169 is now known as Kron_ 13:57:29 I have many tips drafted but need some time to polish and queue. 13:57:34 is there an archive of it ? 13:57:41 homie: lisptips.com is its own archive. 13:57:51 Xach: Oh, ok then. 13:57:56 erm, how can i look at the older ones ? 13:58:10 homie: go to bottom of lisptips.com, click "next page" 13:58:11 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:15 or "archive" 13:58:17 ah 13:58:22 ok thank you 13:58:42 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 13:59:38 kpreid [~kpreid@robinjgn-THINK.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 14:00:42 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 14:01:31 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 14:02:29 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:39 oudeis [~oudeis@183.62.150.43] has joined #lisp 14:05:46 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cbwmwhuantrlwvje] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:08:38 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 14:08:51 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-243-79.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:10:48 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-63.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:08 millerti [~millerti@dhcp-128-146-114-165.osuwireless.ohio-state.edu] has joined #lisp 14:11:11 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-63.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:11:13 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:12:48 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 14:13:54 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:14:11 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 14:15:37 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:41 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 14:16:53 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@183.62.150.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:18:55 achristi_ [~achristia@152.179.75.170] has joined #lisp 14:20:48 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.171.195] has joined #lisp 14:21:15 -!- achristi_ [~achristia@152.179.75.170] has left #lisp 14:21:36 achristianson [~achristia@152.179.75.170] has joined #lisp 14:21:50 passionke [~Administr@60.176.46.249] has joined #lisp 14:24:13 oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has joined #lisp 14:25:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:25:18 xwolf- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:25:38 -!- achristianson [~achristia@152.179.75.170] has left #lisp 14:25:50 hello. how would I go about patching some third party libraries function without ending up in infinite recursion? I have to call the original function from the updated one 14:26:22 would be nice if I could set documentation to the original one too 14:26:23 -!- jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:31 jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:35 urandom__ [~user@p548A37EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:44 sellout- [~Adium@c-76-105-139-195.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:18 I have tried this but my program segfaults 14:28:50 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:30:00 xwolf-: i'm not sure on the best "how", but i'm quite curious about the "why". 14:30:14 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125557 14:30:39 to fix the CLISP issue with drakma:http-request 14:31:08 -!- dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:31:36 is my code causing the segfault? without the patch it works fine, apart from having to type continue twice 14:32:10 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:40 todun_ [~todun@vpl025.wlan.library.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 14:32:41 xwolf-: you don't have to redefine the function in order to install the handler 14:33:07 jdz I see 14:33:32 I'd still use handler-bind? 14:33:33 arborist [~arborist@e182022202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:33:34 xwolf-: well, there's a good idea to test: does handler-bind around http-request (without redefinition) crash the same way? 14:34:05 akovalenko no, I have been using it since you suggested it yesterday 14:35:50 xwolf-: the obvious follow-up: does it crash with redefinition, but without handler-bind? 14:35:51 -!- todun_ [~todun@vpl025.wlan.library.upenn.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:36:19 -!- todun [~todun@DHCP097.LIB.upenn.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:37:59 xwolf-: *debugger-hook* can be used as a kind of "global last-chance handler-bind", and when your concern is having to select CONTINUE restart manually, it seems to be not too far from *debugger-hook*'s purpose 14:38:42 this is odd 14:38:46 i can't get it to crash now 14:38:52 ... stale fasls? 14:39:20 nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has joined #lisp 14:39:35 xwolf-: maybe this is a problem that is easy to fix in usocket. can you lisppaste the complete error when you land in the debugger from drakma? 14:39:55 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:40:02 the condition that's asking me to continue? yes wait 14:41:03 H4ns: it's definitely easy to fix along the lines of "let's leave that socket option alone" (was it timeout? I can't recall). But a crash is not something I'd expect here.. 14:41:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125557#1 14:42:01 xwolf-: that's the sigsegv, i don't know anything about clisp so i need to pass. i'm interested in the original error that made you try the redefinition thing. 14:42:40 scroll down it's at the bottom 14:42:50 todun [~todun@vpl025.wlan.library.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 14:42:59 (when nodelay-specified (unsupported 'nodelay 'socket-connect)) at usocket's clisp.lisp 14:43:12 ah, sorry. 14:43:18 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 14:43:31 PokeTron [~PokeTron@unaffiliated/poketron] has joined #lisp 14:43:38 well, either drakma shouldn't request it, or there should be 'maybe value in usocket interface.. 14:44:10 ... or maybe clisp should support nodelay? 14:44:33 _and_ clisp should support nodelay, of course 14:44:39 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.6] 14:45:19 oh I see what's causing the segfault now 14:45:21 -!- drake01 [~drake01@unaffiliated/drake01] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:46:25 how funny, reading lisp500.c 14:46:32 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:46:49 how could this guy make things like this and leave it alone ? 14:46:55 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125557#2 14:46:59 scroll at the bottom 14:47:07 I have copy/pasted that from drakma's source 14:47:18 -!- brandelune_ [~suzume@pl316.nas982.takamatsu.nttpc.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: brandelune_] 14:47:30 and removed it to make the paste shorter, that's when it stopped segfaulting 14:47:57 xwolf-: you could also change drakma's request.lisp to not pass the :nodelay option for clisp 14:48:32 xwolf-: that'd have the advantage that you'd see legitimate errors be signaled rather than papered over. 14:48:53 or to do that handler-bind for "advisory" options with effects that most of us shouldn't even notice. 14:48:57 ok good idea, but why is this segfaulting? 14:49:11 tritchey [~tritchey@12.207.196.2] has joined #lisp 14:49:38 it segfaults only if I have both the spurious &key section, and handler-bind. if I remove one of the two it doesn't segfault 14:50:05 is it maybe a bug in clisp or drakma that's being manifested randomly? I can't see how that &key section or handler-bind could cause a segfault on it's own 14:50:20 -!- PokeTron [~PokeTron@unaffiliated/poketron] has left #lisp 14:50:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@robinjgn-THINK.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:50:56 xwolf-: i'd say it is a clisp bug. 14:51:04 either (1) an unrelated memory corruption that becomes *visible* when you do handler-bind and have &key's, or (2) a clisp bug indeed 14:52:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-108-147.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:54:01 kpreid [~kpreid@robinjgn-THINK.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 14:54:51 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:54 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:55:43 jast__ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:43 -!- jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:55:43 -!- jast__ is now known as jast_ 14:58:07 -!- jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:58:08 jast__ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:48 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:59:51 xcv [~xcv@hermes.logmenn.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:33 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ..] 15:00:49 -!- benny [~benny@i577A159D.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:11 -!- jast__ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:25 jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:45 wildnux [~wildnux@pool-96-226-69-239.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:04 drdo``` [~drdo@89-180-180-26.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 15:06:32 -!- drdo`` [~drdo@89-180-63-93.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:06:52 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-22.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:39 dlowe1 [dlowe@nat/google/x-ozplwgqdqycthyhy] has joined #lisp 15:11:21 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:11:34 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:13:12 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:13:14 2D arrays in CL aren't one array with other arrays in them. That I know, just wondering whether there's a quick way to convert a list of strings into a 2d array, otherwise I'll just have to copy everything via two loops. 15:13:26 benny [~benny@i577A159D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 15:13:57 it's not really copying, is it 15:14:14 jtza8: make-array's :initial-contents option 15:14:34 (make-array '(2 3) :initial-contents '("foo" "bar")) 15:14:44 Ah yes, thanks akovalenko. 15:15:19 That won't work. 15:15:24 You will have to copy. 15:15:39 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:15:52 You may use a displaced array and replace. 15:17:19 $ javac -classpath "/sys$library/j2vms$vs.jar" get.java <--- some languages could have used CL's pathname system... 15:17:30 are there videos of the ECLM 2011 talks available? I'd like to watch Luke Gorries talk. 15:17:59 pjb: Actually, akovalenko's method does seem to work. 15:18:46 aliao [~user@123.5.152.247] has joined #lisp 15:19:04 jtza8: make-array does copy, actually, but it's likely to do it efficiently. And you don't have to write it :) 15:19:08 I'm surprised. 15:19:16 But it doesn't work if the strings have different lengths. 15:19:54 -!- hagish [~hagish@p57A474C8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:19:55 man, the gerald sussman talk on infoq was quite something. 15:19:57 really inspiring if you like lisp. eye-opening if you're still not sure about it. 15:20:00 pjb: As am I, but fortunately, these strings ALLWAYS have exactly the same lenghths. 15:20:06 although he's a scheme guy... but we can forgive him that, can't we? :) 15:20:26 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 15:20:36 I'd need to read clhs, because I expected initial-contents to be made only of lists, not of sequences. 15:21:29 akovalenko: Thanks, you saved me a lot of ineffecient work. :) 15:22:00 pjb: I had to look it up to ensure it's portable before posting here :) 15:24:35 yeah, initial contents is defined using the wording "nested structure fo_sequences_" 15:24:42 Indeed, "initial-contents is composed of a nested structure of sequences.". 15:24:43 *of _sequences_ 15:24:59 learn something new every day 15:25:18 "Live and learn, die and forget. Unless you're an expert system." 15:25:29 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:25:43 -!- aliao [~user@123.5.152.247] has left #lisp 15:27:04 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 15:27:19 ... 15:28:10 (progn (defclass one-sequence (sequence standard-object) ()) 15:28:10 (defmethod sb-sequence:elt ((o one-sequence) n) 1) 15:28:10 (defmethod sb-sequence:length ((o one-sequence)) 10) 15:28:10 (make-array 10 :initial-contents (make-instance 'one-sequence))) 15:33:06 In Drakma, if I request the output as a stream (i.e. I specify :want-stream t) and I get an error downloading the data, should I still close the stream if the 6'th return value is true? 15:33:51 lrcd [~phua@160.79.132.254] has joined #lisp 15:34:04 -!- lrcd [~phua@160.79.132.254] has left #lisp 15:34:06 drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:08 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:40:12 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 15:40:45 Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@210.Red-88-6-232.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:40 -!- djanatyn is now known as djanlovesdonri 15:46:41 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:47:12 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:26 aliao [~john@123.5.152.247] has joined #lisp 15:49:54 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:50:07 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:50:35 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:51:33 -!- todun [~todun@vpl025.wlan.library.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: :s] 15:52:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@90-189.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:53:41 -!- aliao [~john@123.5.152.247] has left #lisp 15:56:10 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:28 loke: yes 15:57:51 Fade: Thanks 15:58:52 Fade: so basically, the correct thing to do is to always follow a call to HTTP-REQUEST with an UNWIND-PROTECT that closes the stream in its unwind form? 15:59:22 sure, or use specific handlers. 15:59:39 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:59:42 What specific handlers? 15:59:53 what error types are you seeing? 15:59:54 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:59:54 Oh you mean the callbacks? 16:00:09 Fade: I don't see any errors at all. I just want to make sure I do things right. 16:00:18 unwind-protect is appropriate if you want to handle all errors the same way. 16:00:34 Fade: I do 16:00:51 drakma:http-request can throw several types of condition 16:01:06 Fade: this is for cl-gdata, and any errors should always plainly terminate the function, as it's always something unforseen that has happened 16:01:09 loke: I would use (m-v-b (drakma:http-request).. (with-open-stream (stream stream) )) ;; that's almost the same unwind-protect, except that you don't have to write it:) 16:01:25 aliao [~john@123.5.152.247] has joined #lisp 16:01:29 akovalenko: But that won't work 16:01:45 akovalenko: With Drakma, I should only close the stream if argument 5 is non-nil 16:01:58 I mean return value number 6 16:02:09 ah, then it won't work indeed 16:02:57 -!- xcv [~xcv@hermes.logmenn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:03:03 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 16:05:24 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:50 it would be easy to wrap http-request into something that returns concatenated stream when the real stream shouldn't be closed, so the stream returned by the wrapper could be always closed safely. 16:07:28 -!- gko [~gko@111.81.220.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:07:58 The relevant function is at line 16 here: 16:08:03 http://code.google.com/p/cl-gdata/source/browse/src/auth.lisp#16 16:08:19 authenticated-request is just a wrapper around drakma:http-request 16:08:21 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.207.196.2] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 16:08:43 Am I doing it right? 16:09:03 -!- Guest8665 is now known as X-Scale 16:09:04 todun [~todun@seas484.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 16:11:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:01 loke test it in various situations and see where it breaks. 16:13:03 loke: nothing wrong with that unwind-protect part, as far as I can see 16:13:14 Thanks 16:13:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@robinjgn-THINK.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:13:43 you're going to land in the debugger if there's a network hiccough. 16:13:56 Fade: That's fine 16:14:04 Fade: well, for testing it's fine 16:14:19 Fade: since this is supposed to be an API, what should I do? 16:14:26 Raise a specific condition? 16:14:58 -!- aliao [~john@123.5.152.247] has left #lisp 16:14:58 well, drakma will start with a condition. I guess you can decide if you need to define an error protocol to handle various 'normal' breakage. 16:15:10 hmm 16:15:34 nameservice, timeouts etc. 16:16:00 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:16:11 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 16:16:59 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:18:19 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.213.97] has joined #lisp 16:21:29 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:09 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:25:27 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:27:59 -!- quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:28:30 quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 16:30:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:33:25 coderdad [~coderdad@64.134.146.96] has joined #lisp 16:33:55 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:25 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:35:54 -!- todun [~todun@seas484.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: :q] 16:36:39 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0af9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:12 hi 16:37:42 tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 16:38:20 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 16:39:14 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:203:47ff:fe8f:f55] has joined #lisp 16:39:18 -!- bambams [~bamccaig@unaffiliated/bamccaig] has left #lisp 16:40:05 -!- felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 16:41:35 -!- BlastHardcheese [chris@pdpc/supporter/active/blasthardcheese] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:41:41 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.154] has joined #lisp 16:42:17 _3b: I thought somebody was going to work on deflate support at some point, but perhaps I have that confused with one of the compression formats for faxes. lichtblau maybe? 16:42:34 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.67.213] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:48 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.187.28] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:45 jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-235.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:46:51 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:47:26 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0af9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:49:25 -!- drdo``` [~drdo@89-180-180-26.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:51:37 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c0af9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:57 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-020-169.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:52:23 felideon [~felideon@184.105.242.75] has joined #lisp 16:56:58 nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.185.90] has joined #lisp 17:02:07 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:04:03 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@64.134.146.96] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:06:31 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.97.34.146] has joined #lisp 17:09:50 fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518865.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:10:59 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:12:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:13:38 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:14:09 coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:49 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:16:13 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:44 -!- coderdad [~coderdad@wsip-70-164-198-85.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:23:06 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:24:42 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 17:24:52 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-22.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:26:33 jast__ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:33 -!- jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:33 -!- jast__ is now known as jast_ 17:27:18 pjb: do you take clall requests? 17:27:36 It's on paste.lisp, but I may. 17:28:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/123280 17:28:13 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:28:19 Notably, we may have different implementations installed. 17:28:54 I'm wondering if rename-package makes the before-and-after objects non-eq. 17:29:06 The spec seems to indicate that and I wanted to see if it is true in package. 17:29:18 Or rather, the spec seems to indicate that they are eq. 17:29:28 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:38 I'd expect them to be EQ. 17:30:23 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:30:31 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:49 clall -r '(let* ((p (make-package "P1" :use nil)) (q (rename-package p "P2"))) (eq p q))' # gives T for all my implementations. 17:31:21 Xach: I guess the point of the result is that the argument can be a package designator. 17:37:16 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-stobsgsywugdqili] has joined #lisp 17:37:28 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-108-147.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:38:29 pjb: yes, i mean specifically in the case of a package object itself 17:39:09 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-014-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:20 -!- dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:39:34 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:41:00 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:42:17 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:31 todun [~todun@SEAS183.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 17:43:36 I had some idea about package shenanegins that relied on package identity preservation, but now it's muddled in my mind. 17:44:28 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:45:48 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:45:49 [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has joined #lisp 17:46:00 <[6502]> yo 17:46:01 Xach: either a "new" package is EQ to old, or it's a copy. I can't see how the standard allows the latter in any way (in fact, literal meaning of "rename" seems to require identity preservation already) 17:46:26 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:30 <[6502]> structs are global... is there a way to define a structure local to a function? 17:48:40 (defmacro with-local-struct (...)...some macrological madness inside) ;; no, there's no way. Structs are global. 17:48:54 [6502]: Not really. What problem are you trying to solve with such a construct? 17:48:58 dsp_ [~tt@lebesgue.cowpig.ca] has joined #lisp 17:49:27 (We could possibly make it happen in SBCL, but... why?) 17:49:41 you could do it with classes I think? possibly using the mop 17:50:10 <[6502]> hmm 17:50:26 It would be a fairly simple matter to expand into a set of labels for make-foo, foo-slot-a, etc. it wouldn't be a "real" struct, though. 17:51:09 Still leaves the question of why. 17:51:43 'cause it would be neat 17:51:56 I mean, the somewhat common C trick of having a local structure with a static initializer used as a micro-dsl for some process is easy enough to do with just lists and whatnot... 17:52:06 There are no mom and pop oil rigs in norway 17:52:18 <[6502]> for example I've a pathfinder algorithm, that may need an hash table of structs.... the only way to avoid polluting seems to wrap it up in a module then 17:52:50 Pathfinder algorithm? I'd argue that that should probably be in its own file, and therefore package, anyway. 17:53:12 <[6502]> sorry...module=package 17:53:34 *[6502]* is not used to lisp terminology 17:53:47 net.freenode.channels.lisp.common-lisp.6502.algorithms.pathfinder 17:54:03 ^^ a nice package name 17:54:25 ... net.freenode.channels.lisp.common-lisp.6502.cpu-emulators.6502, maybe? :-D 17:54:27 <[6502]> local is good 17:54:30 <[6502]> global is bad 17:54:38 Four legs good, two legs bad. 17:54:44 <[6502]> exactly :-D 17:54:46 prejudices are awesome 17:55:04 Never subscribe to unconditional dogma! 17:55:15 <[6502]> every generalization is a mistake 17:55:24 <[6502]> (this is my favorite generalization) 17:55:33 "Predestination was doomed from the start." 17:56:30 [6502]: Names in general are managed via packages, so name "pollution" is managed via packages too. 17:57:26 <[6502]> yes... that lovely flat package global pool 17:57:32 <[6502]> with hierarchical names 17:57:49 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:08 <[6502]> ok... i really need to study packages 17:58:13 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:58:20 <[6502]> dinner time for me... l8r 17:58:24 There is no package name hierarchy. 17:58:32 [6502]: you may write a macro as mentionned, or just use predefined "structures" such as conses and vector. 17:59:04 [6502]: also, defining a toplevel structure is not a big problem: it's local to the package. 17:59:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-239.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:00:00 -!- [6502] [58959a57@gateway/web/freenode/ip.88.149.154.87] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:02:33 tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 18:02:39 are those java-ish package names generally considered good practice these days? or is it a matter of contention?d 18:03:07 df: I am not a fan. 18:03:18 df: I have not seen consensus on the topic. 18:03:50 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:04:36 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:46 thanks 18:06:24 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-254-114.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:07:26 I certainly don't use such java-ish package names. 18:07:44 Cam [~x@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 18:08:11 What is the odd # of &key arguments error, and how can I fix it? I call (function arg1 arg2 arg3) and it's defined as (defun function (arg1 arg2 arg3) stuff ) 18:08:11 -!- jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:08:15 df: com.domain.something == "i don't care about competition and don't want to be THE something". 18:08:16 jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:02 Cam: seems possible you are not calling what you think you are calling. 18:09:12 eh..... 18:09:14 Cam: first, you post a real code. The problem is likely to be among your ARGn's, that is, in real thing 18:09:20 Cam: Somewhere in stuff you're calling a function that takes keyword arguments, and you're not passing all of the non-key arguments. 18:09:30 com.domain.something = I'm optimistic, there will be millions of lisp programmers writing something libraries. 18:09:40 nyef: but I get my (function) to print something before I call anything else and it isn't even getting there. 18:09:54 Cam: it will be much easier to figure out if you paste real code and real errors. 18:09:58 Cam: real code! 18:09:59 to paste.lisp.org 18:10:03 sheesh, okay. 18:10:09 Cam: Most likely to happen is that you're calling something with both &optional and &key arguments, but not passing the optional argument. 18:10:24 *Xach* shivers 18:10:35 ..like read-from-string 18:10:51 Also might happen if you're trying to pass a keyword argument "positionally". 18:10:56 pon1980 [~pon@h195n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:03 I don't even know what a key and optional argument is.. 18:11:29 Cam: clhs 3.4.1 Ordinary lambda lists 18:11:35 brb trying one thing. And thanks. 18:12:00 Cam: no fair, if you fix it, you should still paste it so we can follow along 18:13:15 Harag [~phil@dsl-242-249-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:16:45 Xach: http://pastie.org/private/lye4i88rm4zvze69foki7w 18:16:57 See bottom for error 18:18:07 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-014-056.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:19:23 Cam: Yes, SEARCH does not have arguments (ARG1 ARG2 ARG3), but (ARG1 ARG2 &key ...) 18:19:26 Cam: rename your SEARCH 18:19:39 CL:SEARCH, that is. 18:19:44 rme [~rme@50.43.148.59] has joined #lisp 18:20:45 It will be difficult to help yourself, and for others to help you, with such unconventional and inconsistent formatting. 18:23:31 How does it have a &kry? 18:23:35 It's level..... 18:23:46 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:56 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-129-49.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:23:56 Cam: SEARCH names a standard function in common lisp. 18:24:00 oh? 18:24:01 Cam: you can't redefine it 18:24:07 oh wow. 18:24:11 Cam: so, _rename your SEARCH_ 18:24:17 ... You /can/ redefine it, but you shouldn't. 18:24:24 Let me try that 18:24:54 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 18:25:28 nyef: let me suggest "you might be able to redefine it" as a compromise :) 18:26:12 Still needs the warning about not making the attempt, but it's a good start at a middle ground. 18:26:13 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-200.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:26:19 nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:26:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-155-200.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:27:30 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:42 btw, are there real common lisps without (some equivalent of) package lock on :COMMON-LISP 18:27:47 ? 18:29:53 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:29:53 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 18:30:29 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:203:47ff:fe8f:f55] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 18:30:47 akovalenko: Yes. Pre-package-lock SBCL, for example. 18:30:54 akovalenko: abcl 18:31:20 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 18:31:30 nyef: with s/are/were/ that much is obvious even for me. 18:31:36 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 18:32:25 This just isn't working.. 18:32:27 Fuck it. 18:32:28 Okay, I need a slogan for the "campaign to keep our source tree beautiful", preferably something about not littering. 18:34:15 What does source littering look like? 18:34:37 It looks like src/pcl/*.fasl. 18:34:41 Is there some lisp-lint tool to reformat an arbitrary amount of code? 18:34:52 akovalenko: I'm not sure if LW doesn't support runtime redefinition by default 18:35:03 antoszka: Just reformat? I think it's called M-x indent-region. 18:35:47 nyef: Yeah, I've done that (looking at Cam's code), but would also want to automatically pull in the closing parens and remove spurious double spaces. 18:36:32 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 18:36:34 *antoszka* thought about loading the program and just pretty-printing it. 18:36:40 antoszka: pretty-printing it all loses comments, but for that code I wouldn't care 18:36:48 Yeah. 18:36:59 How about a replace-regexp? 18:37:13 ..now we have two problems. 18:37:18 *antoszka* hates battling with multiline regexes. 18:37:30 That should at least let you group close-parens with arbitrary whitespace between them. 18:38:54 Hrm. clweb probably can't rescue this formatting, but it might be a usable basis for hacking up a reformatter. 18:39:53 antoszka: M-x join-line RET M-x delete-horizontal-space 18:40:53 in a keyboard macro for easy repetition 18:41:07 (well, something like that) 18:41:12 Uhm. 18:41:12 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:14 btw, is there something like emacs's cc-guess for CL, to adjust indentatin settings according to actual code? 18:41:26 antoszka: obviously not as automatic as you were thinking 18:42:03 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-101-79.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:42:09 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-63.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 18:43:11 pnutbrtl [~pnutbrtl@160.79.132.254] has joined #lisp 18:43:30 -!- Cam [~x@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:43:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-108-147.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:47:22 -!- H4ns [4ffc8c7a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.140.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 18:52:00 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.154] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:52:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:49 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:49 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:52:49 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 18:52:52 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.213.97] has joined #lisp 18:53:04 Riviera [~Riviera@gateway/tor-sasl/riviera] has joined #lisp 18:53:30 *pinterface* doesn't really understand how newbies manage to start writing lisp without picking up on the preferred formatting style from existing code. 18:53:36 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:54:25 pinterface: Would you like me to explain it? 18:55:22 pinterface: It's related to the phenomenon of people learning a new natural language speaking with a slightly odd word order and completely whacked-out prosody. 18:55:43 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:55:53 I figured it was discomfort in just letting the emacs lisp-mode take care of it 18:55:57 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A37EF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:56:01 or not using emacs 18:56:13 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:56:21 Not using emacs is fairly typical as well. 18:56:24 nyef: I'll then ask you how it happens that most newbies are fine, and only few exceptions are.. exceptional. 18:56:27 dlowe1: previous use of other languages and idiotic tutorials 18:56:43 p_l: idiotic tutorials like what? 18:57:09 akovalenko: Because some newbies have an eye for these things. 18:57:14 dlowe1: certain, better unnamed, university courses in LISP, tutorials that go similarly 18:57:21 -!- jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:57:36 akovalenko: Or possibly just previous experience in one of the other lisp-family languages or something with similar formatting. 18:58:00 jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:02 akovalenko: because the newbies that don't give up on the language as soon as they can tend to have read books like PCL or Gentle Introduction, that follow the common style? 18:58:06 akovalenko: Consider the influence of prior experience with, say, that-other-python. 18:58:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-16-235.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:58:35 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.213.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:59:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:00:36 doug11 [~doug@host86-154-19-190.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:03:19 Sort of an odd question but I'm curious. Does anyone if there are declare settings that will cause sbcl to store something meaningful for function-lambda-expression? 19:03:25 *does anyone know 19:04:14 When I first started out I thought let had too many parenthesis. Didn't indent like it was C, though. 19:04:32 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:05:56 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 19:06:35 redline6561: SBCL bug 560977 would seem to be relevant 19:06:52 Thanks pinterface. 19:07:27 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:08:31 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 19:08:38 I was pretty amazed to see that bug with *d-p-d* merging in delete-file in sbcl. 19:09:02 I feel bad now about teasing rtoym about cmucl *d-p-d* bugs. 19:09:09 -!- doug11 [~doug@host86-154-19-190.range86-154.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:09:36 physadair [~physadair@140-113-125-147.Dorm-GD1.NCTU.edu.tw] has joined #lisp 19:10:00 -!- arborist [~arborist@e182022202.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:01 DELETE-FILE, yep: https://github.com/akovalenko/sbcl-win32-threads/commit/7991c2c2c33faced2a6bb1d00c8dc1b8a5db11ba 19:11:55 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:12:22 my lfn-upstream branch was carefully isolated for easy integration, but no one looked at it, apparently.. 19:16:17 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 19:18:22 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:20:08 I don't understand why CL distinct defun and defvar instead of combining them 19:20:28 so is that nesessary to do so ? 19:20:52 else I will just leave defvar behind... 19:20:53 morphism: did you read http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Technical-Issues.html 19:20:54 ? 19:20:55 Yes, because CL is a lisp-2. 19:21:06 and indeed red Kent's paper. 19:21:10 s/red/read 19:21:21 morphism: It isn't scheme and we've chosen to do things differently. Obviously it is possible to a have a lisp language where the two are combined. Scheme is an existence proof. 19:21:28 morphism: because a) CL is a Lisp-2, with separate namespace for "variables" and functions b) DEFVAR created *special* variables, which have specific behaviour, and it's good idea to learn the difference 19:21:31 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:21:53 *creates 19:21:54 morphism: notice we also have a defclass and a few other 'slots'. 19:22:57 @.@ 19:23:22 morphism: also, it's closer to natural languages where it's natural to overload words with different gramatical categories. 19:23:33 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:23:41 (and of course, with different semantics within the same gramatical category). 19:24:35 how would you define "defvar" in CL ? 19:24:49 some natural languages are lisp-1-ish w.r.t grammatical categories, btw.. 19:25:00 morphism: have a look at the sources of your favorite implementation. 19:25:14 morphism: try: (macroexpand '(defvar *x* 42 "Some value")) 19:25:47 jast__ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:12 -!- jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:26:13 -!- jast__ is now known as jast_ 19:26:25 boundp ? 19:26:28 hm... 19:26:40 morphism: read clhs defvar and compare with defparameter. 19:27:14 a bit confused on my current platform 19:27:46 would this make some heavy impact in my later implementation ? 19:28:17 aditya` [~user@deech.nrg.wustl.edu] has joined #lisp 19:28:23 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.79] has joined #lisp 19:28:49 currently, both defun and defvar in my demo will "eval" the expression after the symbol 19:29:06 then "bind" the value to that symbol 19:29:17 That's not what's specified in clhs. 19:29:21 Read again clhs defun. 19:29:24 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:29:44 ok =.=! 19:30:44 Hi all, I don't have much experience with Lisp, but I do want to add GUI with some kind of REPL to my application (not written in Lisp). A cursory look at CLIM seems like it might have some useful ideas but the only user-level docs I can find are at: http://mcclim.cliki.net/User%20Guide. Does anyone else have more experience? 19:30:53 RiaanFV [~riaanfv@41-132-169-212.dsl.mweb.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:31:07 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-056.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:31:44 -!- RiaanFV [~riaanfv@41-132-169-212.dsl.mweb.co.za] has left #lisp 19:33:31 -!- dlowe1 [dlowe@nat/google/x-ozplwgqdqycthyhy] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:34:42 Davidbrcz__ [~david@ANantes-151-1-20-194.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:36:36 aditya`: what's your application written in? 19:37:13 -!- physadair [~physadair@140-113-125-147.Dorm-GD1.NCTU.edu.tw] has quit [Quit: physadair] 19:37:17 aditya`: you can link your application with ecl (libecl.so) to give it a CL REPL. 19:38:47 pjb: The application is currently written in Java. I don't want to give it a full CL REPL. But I do want power users to be able to interact with it in a Bash shell or REPL fashion. 19:39:16 pjb: Linking ecl is a great idea. 19:39:20 aditya`: take a look at abcl 19:39:26 aditya`: if it's written in Java, you could use abcl. 19:39:34 aditya`: it runs on the jvm 19:40:01 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:40:33 prxq: Have you used it? I know this must come up a lot, but how does it compare with Clojure (in terms of invoking Java libraries)? 19:41:21 Good. 19:41:33 aditya`: no, i haven't used it. Afaik, it can access java libraries just fine. 19:41:35 urandom__ [~user@p548A295B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:07 *prxq* has never done anything in a jvm 19:42:17 prxq: I envy you. 19:43:34 aditya`: is it that bad? 19:44:23 prxq: The JVM is actually pretty nice. It's dealing with Java, XML, Maven etc. 19:44:39 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:45:41 aditya`: i see 19:46:25 That's why Clojure is regarded as a successful language because it leverages the JVM while providing facilites for the family of multi-code buzzwords like lock-free, STM, pure etc. 19:47:07 _mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 19:47:12 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:47:33 s/multi-code/multi-core/ 19:47:49 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:42 aditya`: have you programmed in lisp before? 19:49:48 -!- Riviera [~Riviera@gateway/tor-sasl/riviera] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:50:09 -!- xwolf- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (Session timeout)] 19:50:28 aditya`: and perhaps lisp doesn't leverage java, C, fortran, etc. What do you think FFI is? 19:50:30 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-76-105-139-195.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:50:50 sellout- [~Adium@c-76-105-139-195.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:06 Clojure is regarded as successful only because it's new. Next month somebody will invent another language and Clojure will be passé. 19:51:24 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-249-136.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Quit: Eish] 19:51:42 aditya`: watch: http://www.infoq.com/presentations/We-Really-Dont-Know-How-To-Compute 19:52:04 also, multicore?... What about Lisp on CM-{1,2,5}? ;) 19:52:35 There's no JVM on CM-5... 19:52:45 pjb: I would be willing to bet you a bottle that it will be more than a month 19:52:58 pjb: I'm not defending Clojure. I read through Seibel's book so that's the extent of my Common Lisp knowledge. 19:53:00 Xach: ok, a month or two. 19:53:30 pjb: I was at that conference. The talk was pretty amazing. 19:53:38 aditya`: I'd also like to add that JVM, while fast, can go horribly wrong in terms of GC... despite the fact that they put quite a lot of research and work into that 19:53:41 pjb: Ok, then we can settle it in two months, I prefer single malts. 19:54:17 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:54:20 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:54:22 p_l: The only reason that we stay on the JVM is the number of libraries written on it. 19:54:40 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.199] has joined #lisp 19:54:47 In lisp, it's easy to write your own libraries... 19:54:58 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 19:56:14 pjb: I am with you 100%. Most of non-full-time development to date has been in Haskell, but I think sometimes that a lot of cool features are sacrificed on the altar of compile time type-safety. 19:56:36 aditya`: also check out JSS.. it makes invoking pre-xaqing libs easier 19:57:06 JSS is a smoothing interface for jcall/static etc 19:57:30 http://www.cliki.net/JSS 19:58:01 pre-xaqing? 19:58:56 -!- angavrilov_ [~angavrilo@217.71.227.181] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:59:27 Xach: is lisptips indefinately suspended, or will tips come flowing back in? 19:59:56 Xach: oh i was that one to say " pre-xaqing " ! meant pre-existing 20:00:11 madnificent: I hope to queue up a bunch soon. 20:00:40 Xach: thanks. it had already become part of my daily routine, it's nice 20:00:52 madnificent: I made a mistake in ending the current queue in the middle of a long and tiring trip. I didn't mean to have the gap. 20:01:14 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-5d859f0d.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:00 one of my many gripes though of ABCL currently is they are so afraid to use BCEL (a foriegn lib).. they've broken their support for subclassing existing java code 20:02:49 so if you wanted to subclass a AbstractMap.. you cant.. you have to make your java.util.Map interface from scratch in lisp using a lisp proxy 20:03:45 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d857de9.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:03:45 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 20:03:53 dmiles_afk: why do they want to avoid BCEL? 20:04:06 it use to be in ABCL you only would need to present a key/value iterator out of a lisp hashtable 20:05:09 prxq: want to avoid all foriene deps.. they want to write BCEL from scratch in lisop since it sounds like a good idea 20:06:10 dmiles_afk: is it not possible to add BCEL as an external lib? 20:06:13 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:27 most prjects (like beanshell and that realyl big time javascripty interpretor) just take the 5 .jacva files they need from bcel 20:06:30 Xach: no problem, i'm glad it didn't just die off. i hope i can make it to eclm next time it's near me. 20:07:57 prxq: yes.. then use thjeir old javaclass.lisp 20:08:40 i guess i am whining they took it out 20:09:10 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:44 http://stackoverflow.com/questions/4785969/can-you-write-a-java-class-with-abcl 20:10:51 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:10:58 Houl [~Miranda@unaffiliated/houl] has joined #lisp 20:18:43 btw: ... i shoukld not say BCEL.. i shouild say ASM.jar 20:19:00 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 20:19:15 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:27 xjrn [~chatzilla@c-76-21-48-114.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:28 that is quite a typo 20:19:31 even for you! 20:20:08 :) 20:20:47 thank you very much my closed over friend, nice to meet you in the next lexical scope in your next lifetime.... 20:21:01 lol 20:21:03 drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:49 Xach: you are doing something to llj.. what is it? 20:21:58 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-108-147.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:05 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-056.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:23:19 dmiles_afk: what is llj? 20:24:20 lnj maybe? 20:24:28 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 20:24:36 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-056.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:25:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:25:57 Linj? I put up a copy of the sources on github. I pestered the author last year until he agreed to share them under a MIT-style license. 20:26:04 I do not maintain it, though. 20:26:13 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.102.59] has quit [Quit: software upgrade...] 20:26:19 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:27:14 Xach: OK, I was hoping you where maintaining it and had some news to what was new with it 20:28:39 aditya`: LINJ can translate soime lisp forms into java code 20:29:20 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@pool-96-226-69-239.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:29:28 http://cl-user.net/asp/libs/linj 20:29:43 dmiles_afk: it doesn't support Java 5 and later, though 20:31:56 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d859f0d.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: benkard] 20:33:06 speaking of java5.. I once ported ABCL to java1.3 (so i could run a java to C# translator) on it and it still worked :) .. I wish projects owuld maintain their source complience to as old as possible.. and use modern compilers 20:33:19 hey, does Clojure satisfy a CL implementation spec ? 20:33:44 "implementation spec"? 20:33:44 morphism: No, clojure is something completely different. 20:33:49 morphism: huh? 20:34:07 I'm just asking :P 20:35:00 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.102.59] has joined #lisp 20:35:18 because I'm thinking about restricting myself inside the standard Common Lisp implementation or just get what I want for my own impl 20:35:24 -!- jast_ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:24 morphism: I'm just wondering what you mean by "implementation spec". 20:35:43 =.= it's http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/ 20:35:53 specification 20:36:09 Ah. The Common Lisp standard. No, Clojure is a different programming language. 20:36:29 yay, that's what I want to know, 'cause I haven't put my hand on it 20:36:43 dmiles_afk: the thing is that sometimes the target you want requires *minimal* spec that is higher than that, and lack of support for new stuff means it's unusable (android and linj) 20:36:49 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:36:59 Pretty much like the difference between, say, C and Java. There are some superficial similarities, but beyond that... 20:37:16 jast__ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:48 yep, would be more on F# 20:38:10 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:38:23 as there are differences. If I did this on C, it would be somewhat more traditional to standard CL 20:39:03 Er ... what are you talking about? 20:39:15 but not follow that standard mean my Implmentation won't be able to take use of already-done CL libraries. 20:39:30 "javac -source 1.3 -target 1.7" works 20:41:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:41:35 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.171.195] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:42:16 p_l: true, there is one feature not available in 1.3 .. @anotations 20:43:26 p_l: but every other feature can be simulated to exact classfile representation 20:45:37 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 20:45:51 -!- pavelludiq is now known as pavelpenev 20:45:52 dmiles_afk: the thing killing LinJ for android use was lack of a way to use Generics, which I couldn't find an easy way to add 20:46:04 p_l: oh heck sorry .. generics arnt! 20:46:40 ... in comparison, adding new stuff to hu.dwim.{rdbms,perec} query compiler is so damn easy :D 20:48:13 when i've ported code to stop using generics in the past.. .. there was a idomatic way of doing casting.. doesnt linj make automatically adding castrs easy? 20:49:10 -!- todun [~todun@SEAS183.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: :s] 20:50:26 or at least let it use non generics.. then change a few ddclarionbs to generic afterwards 20:51:43 dmiles_afk: I didn't want to generate code to automatically correct to generics, also, LinJ does type inference while generating java code by using reflection through a java subprocess 20:52:58 Riviera [~Riviera@gateway/tor-sasl/riviera] has joined #lisp 20:56:04 todun [~todun@SEAS183.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 20:56:18 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 20:57:44 marsell [~marsell@120.20.149.35] has joined #lisp 20:58:46 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:59:49 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:03:20 Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-63.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 21:04:34 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518865.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:04:47 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:05:35 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:11 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 21:08:10 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.185.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:08:36 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-76-105-139-195.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:09:15 -!- djanlovesdonri is now known as djanatyn 21:16:48 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:19:12 -!- drwho [~drwho@c-68-80-157-110.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:20:20 drdo``` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:21:08 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:21:14 nanoc [~conanhome@186.12.109.133] has joined #lisp 21:23:29 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: good night] 21:23:30 -!- jast__ [~jast_@dslb-178-002-139-242.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:24:16 -!- drdo``` is now known as drdo 21:24:23 linj could've made me a happier lisper two years ago... now i'm not pestered by the language anymore \o/ 21:24:49 me too 21:25:18 though I might dust it off if the stupid coursework ends up being in Java 21:25:48 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-056.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:26:55 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-stobsgsywugdqili] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:00 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:28:10 p_l: which would be why it'd have made me happier 21:29:35 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:32:40 -!- todun [~todun@SEAS183.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: :s] 21:32:57 -!- Davidbrcz__ [~david@ANantes-151-1-20-194.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:34:42 -!- TheMoonMaster [~TheMoonMa@reddit/operator/themoonmaster] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:36:04 -!- pnutbrtl [~pnutbrtl@160.79.132.254] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:21 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-056.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:41:28 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@222.126.197.129] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:42:00 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:28 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:46:26 hi 21:46:55 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:48:24 please, how can I port this http://pastebin.com/sBiLtTD8 to commonqt? Thanks 21:49:06 ... I can't even -parse- that. 21:49:32 *p_l* neither 21:50:30 *akovalenko* can :-( 21:50:38 that's c++ 21:52:39 this is a constructor calling another constructor 21:52:56 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 21:56:00 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:58:48 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:00:24 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:00:44 I thought this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125566 22:00:53 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has left #lisp 22:01:07 Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 22:01:22 is that correct? 22:01:53 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-094-056.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:02:22 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:30 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:02:51 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:04:37 tritchey [~tritchey@108.60.121.114] has joined #lisp 22:06:51 Posterdati: isn't that assignment vs. initialization? 22:07:29 in c++ constructors could set initial value for the class members like initialize-instance would do 22:07:35 if programmed to 22:07:54 but in c++ constructors could call other class constructors 22:08:06 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:08:15 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:10:13 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:59 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:14:30 Posterdati: iirc, only parent classes 22:14:48 prxq: ? 22:16:56 -!- psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has left #lisp 22:16:57 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:17:15 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.53] has joined #lisp 22:17:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-239.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:47 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:17:54 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 22:19:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-116-22.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:10 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 22:21:09 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:37 Posterdati: the constructors that can be called are those of parent classes of the class to which the constructor that is calling them belongs to 22:22:24 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@86.124.148.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:25 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:48 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:22 -!- Jeanne-Kamikaze [~Jeanne-Ka@210.Red-88-6-232.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Did you hear that ?] 22:23:36 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.28.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:12 -!- pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:18 Posterdati: so in a translation to CL, I'd expect this to translate to providing adequate initargs 22:26:55 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:31:40 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:32:09 cesarbp [~cbolano@187.193.213.97] has joined #lisp 22:32:41 -!- pon1980 [~pon@h195n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has left #lisp 22:33:48 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-76.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:37:42 Posterdati: you don't use the result of the call to #_new... 22:38:11 pavelpenev [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 22:38:24 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined 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