00:01:11 -!- venk is now known as vpit3833 00:01:33 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483B9C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:04:02 -!- troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:07:17 troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has joined #lisp 00:09:12 -!- Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:09:31 MimiEA [~Mimi@199.17.55.134] has joined #lisp 00:10:51 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:13:46 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:15:12 knotpine [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 00:16:56 -!- knotpine [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:18:36 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx62-2a-235.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:23:58 doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:15 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:27:00 knotpine [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 00:28:13 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:36:13 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:36:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:38:16 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:39:19 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:46:00 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-29-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:49:23 doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:51 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:54:50 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-69-201-186-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:55:36 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.86.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:00 -!- easyE [chguRsI1Jb@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:56:55 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:59:39 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.144.237] has joined #lisp 01:00:16 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.144.237] has quit [Client Quit] 01:02:33 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:58 benny [~benny@i577A76DF.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 01:03:46 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:04:24 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.144.237] has joined #lisp 01:05:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:10:31 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has joined #lisp 01:11:12 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:13:01 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:13:37 mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has joined #lisp 01:15:07 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:07 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:15:07 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:15:42 ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has joined #lisp 01:17:35 -!- Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:18:18 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:20:06 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-22.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:08 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has joined #lisp 01:22:39 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:42 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:55 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:43 #join #iphonedev 01:24:59 why? 01:30:15 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:30:58 its an iphone 01:32:10 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:34:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:37:17 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:29 marsell [~marsell@120.20.170.5] has joined #lisp 01:38:28 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 01:39:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 01:40:47 -!- ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:41:15 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:42:31 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:06 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 01:45:09 -!- SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:45:15 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:47:39 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:47:46 Munksgaard- [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has joined #lisp 01:49:35 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 01:49:59 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:53:43 ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has joined #lisp 02:01:53 ISF_ec09 [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has joined #lisp 02:04:05 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:04:45 -!- ISF__ [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:05:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-100-195.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:11 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-79-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:07:17 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 02:07:20 anybody know why babel is so slow on clozureCL? 02:08:16 in particular string-to-octets 02:11:59 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:15:06 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:17:46 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:17:55 -!- ISF_ec09 [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 02:18:11 -!- Munksgaard- [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:19:53 I'm trying to take a binary tree and with a 1/50 chance per element. turn that element into a cons of it's-previous-value and it's-previous-value (an element is either a cons or a leaf) 02:20:51 vhost- [~vhost@unaffiliated/vhost-] has joined #lisp 02:22:03 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.20.189] has joined #lisp 02:23:39 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:25:11 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:27:01 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:20 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:28:09 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 02:30:46 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:31:45 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:34:10 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 02:35:48 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.90.1] 02:38:23 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-100-195.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:38:43 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:57 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-100-195.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:40:19 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:47:21 -!- alexgordon [~alexgordo@host-2-97-43-32.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 02:47:27 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-135-201-188.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:48:34 mogs [~mogs@119.64.49.14] has joined #lisp 02:53:06 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-135-201-188.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 02:54:58 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:55:30 aanandc [~user@203.247.149.152] has joined #lisp 02:56:22 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:57:29 wolfpython [~wolf@180.110.178.173] has joined #lisp 03:01:04 el-maxo_ [~max@p5DE8F531.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:50 -!- el-maxo [~max@p57A57105.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:06:38 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:06:55 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:11:12 superflit [~superflit@71-208-213-172.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:12:28 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.179.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:12:42 hugod [~hugod@70.24.179.235] has joined #lisp 03:13:40 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 03:15:24 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:19:08 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.144.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:19:13 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-57-67.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:19:23 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:21:32 -!- Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [] 03:21:55 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-161-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:23:30 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:24:42 SegFaultAX [~SegFaultA@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:27:46 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:49 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.144.237] has joined #lisp 03:30:15 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:31:07 -!- dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:32:10 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:32:16 dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has joined #lisp 03:33:36 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.170.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:34:26 nicdev__ [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:17 -!- nicdev__ [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:35:30 doesthiswork: That's not really a question, but if you do that in the naive way you'll end up with something that isn't a tree 03:35:56 -!- nicdev is now known as nicdev__ 03:36:08 doesthiswork: you need to make sure that one side uses copy-tree of its value 03:36:57 I do know that I need to copy but I have no trouble doing that 03:37:15 so do you hae a question? 03:37:39 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:26 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:40:40 I how do I get a variable to change it's value outside a function from inside a function without an extra layer of indirection? 03:41:06 um 03:41:09 assign to it? 03:41:31 I tried a macro and setf but that won't traverse a tree for the obvious reason 03:41:57 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:42:28 is there a way to pass an enviroment in with the variable? 03:43:14 doesthiswork: you just need the parent node 03:44:06 an how do I tell it wether it is the car or the crd that needs re assigning? 03:44:08 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:44:54 it depends on which one you want to change 03:45:01 presumably you have a 1/50 chance for each 03:47:01 I mean I already know which one I am following when I give the parent an child to the function 03:47:34 it seems cumbersome to have to check both to re figure out something I already knew 03:49:52 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:49:55 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:52:34 why do that? Why not just do the replacing when you are visiting the parent and do it once for each child? 03:55:34 you know, something like http://paste.lisp.org/display/125421 03:56:06 though I haven't actually tested that code, it's destructive, and it doesn't apply the test to the root node 03:56:21 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:57:38 also the problem isn't really well formed: you end up with a different result if you do it from the leaf-nodes up or the root-node down 03:58:19 -!- rukubites [~user@d211-30-71-32.meb9.vic.optusnet.com.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:58:40 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 03:58:41 does: Perhaps you want a special variable. 03:59:02 (defvar *foo*) then (let ((*foo* 1)) (bar)) 03:59:37 paul0` [~user@200.175.60.205.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:00:10 Zhivago: I don't think that solves the problem. He wants to be able to pass something to a function such that (setf) on it will either replace the car or the cdr of a particular cons 04:00:16 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 04:01:13 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.135] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:47 lemoinem [~swoog@243-76-252-216.dsl.colba.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:51 A closure. :) 04:02:04 Ah, true 04:02:06 (lambda (v) (setf (car cons) v)) 04:02:34 Might be a bit heavy duty, but you could select between two of those. 04:02:55 that would certainly work. I do think that it's a bit harder than just operating on the parent node directly 04:03:25 -!- paul0 [~user@200.175.60.205.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:03:42 thank you 04:03:50 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-22.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:04:15 I forgot that lambas were the official way to capture the enviroment 04:05:34 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-22.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:44 I mean closures 04:06:48 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082B324.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:25 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p50829A06.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:10:27 -!- Guest39686 [~Kron@69.166.23.18] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:11:59 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: kwertii] 04:16:59 this is time 04:17:16 let me introduce to you the big news: 04:17:38 Google AI Challenge 2011: Ants is almost open 04:17:54 The starter packs are already up, no? 04:18:03 visit: aichallenge.org 04:18:09 yep 04:18:21 but in minutes, the site will go from beta to live 04:18:32 you can start registering very soon 04:19:11 -!- setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-66-192.tx.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:22:37 Why isn't the linedit repl, or a similar one, shipped with SBCL? 04:23:31 Why isn't SLIME and emacs shipped with SBCL? 04:24:18 because they are relatively large? 04:24:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:24:56 keeping the contribs size down makes sense, but not to the point of having absolutely no line-editing. 04:25:49 rlwrap. 04:26:25 rlwrap is nice, yes 04:27:05 but the times when I need to interact with SBCL directly are generally not the times when I can easily install new software on a machine. 04:27:37 it would be easier to simply manually install linedit every time. 04:27:47 which raises the exact question I asked. 04:28:28 so it's more likely you can get SBCL installed than get rlwrap installed? 04:28:49 ISF [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has joined #lisp 04:29:31 if it's common for people to have to install a lightweight third party utility every time they install sbcl, then it might be worth integrating the functionality. 04:30:18 tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:28 -!- tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:30:31 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 04:30:38 I don't use rlwrap. What makes you think it's common that everyone does it every time they install SBCL? 04:31:37 what makes you think I think that? 04:32:18 i'd like a line editing contrib 04:32:30 sylecn [~sylecn@180.121.147.249] has joined #lisp 04:32:36 linedit's ancestor was even named sb-readline, it would seem 04:33:10 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has joined #lisp 04:33:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has quit [Changing host] 04:33:10 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 04:33:23 and nikodemus seems to be associated with it 04:39:25 Hello - I'm working my way through SICP and find in the expo 04:39:35 mikecsh: ask in #scheme. 04:39:45 oh ok - thanks pkhyong! 04:47:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:51:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-100-195.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:52:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.137] has joined #lisp 04:52:47 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:53:20 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:54:06 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:37 tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:57:19 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:57:22 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 05:00:54 -!- vpit3833 [~user@203.111.33.203] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:02:19 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@199.17.55.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:03:13 brianmwaters [~brian@65-183-149-118-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has joined #lisp 05:03:59 -!- brianmwaters [~brian@65-183-149-118-dhcp.burlingtontelecom.net] has left #lisp 05:08:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.137] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 05:09:41 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:14:40 -!- aanandc [~user@203.247.149.152] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:15:01 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.144.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:18:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:19:41 hba [~hba@189.229.191.31] has joined #lisp 05:26:23 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:27:01 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host227.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:27:15 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:27:36 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.73.107.239] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:27:38 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:28:03 akovalenko [~anton@95.73.107.239] has joined #lisp 05:30:39 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 05:32:00 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:32:32 -!- process [~nick@subtlepath.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:33:07 -!- __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:33:31 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 05:33:40 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:34:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:35:22 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 05:38:00 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:38:04 manuel_ [~manuel_@p57920D48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:46:24 __class__ [~class@99-105-56-217.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:48:32 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 05:48:50 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:50:25 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 05:51:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has left #lisp 05:55:34 -!- yoos [~yoos@flip3.engr.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Disconnected by services] 05:56:12 yoos [yoos@shell.onid.oregonstate.edu] has joined #lisp 05:56:32 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-9-245.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 06:00:23 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 06:02:19 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:03:29 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:04:26 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has joined #lisp 06:05:35 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:06:02 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:07:05 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:11 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.215] has joined #lisp 06:08:42 Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 06:09:37 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 06:10:20 -!- orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Client Quit] 06:11:26 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-81.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:11:36 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 06:14:36 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 06:18:46 nostoi [~nostoi@250.Red-79-151-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:23:55 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 06:24:10 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:26:13 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:28:37 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.215] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:31:30 -!- orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:32:00 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:17 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.44] has joined #lisp 06:34:46 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 06:37:45 marsell [~marsell@120.22.36.15] has joined #lisp 06:40:07 -!- orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:40:14 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 06:46:11 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.11.83] has joined #lisp 06:46:16 -!- dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:50:17 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 06:50:54 -!- orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 06:51:00 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 06:51:47 Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 06:52:37 -!- orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Client Quit] 06:53:25 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 06:53:41 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:54:17 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 06:56:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-81.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:56:34 -!- orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has quit [Client Quit] 06:57:54 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:57:59 orangejuice [~orangejui@66.96.251.117] has joined #lisp 07:00:57 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:01:18 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:05:32 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:11:21 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:11:24 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:37 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 07:12:56 quackv4 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 07:13:28 -!- quackv4 is now known as quackv2 07:15:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 07:15:37 Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has joined #lisp 07:15:48 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 07:16:12 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:16:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-203-210.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:16:43 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.20.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:19:18 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:21:14 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:21:35 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:22:49 msxx [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:54 hello 07:23:20 C-c C-c breaks (loop) in SLIME's repl running SBCL on linux, but doesn't do it on windows 07:23:27 how to break the loop? 07:23:44 msxx: which implementation? (SBCL?) 07:23:52 yes 07:24:25 msxx: try this one: https://github.com/akovalenko/sbcl-win32-threads/wiki 07:24:28 I'm getting this: "Lisp connection closed unexpectedly: connection broken by remote peer" 07:24:57 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:24:57 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:25:06 thanks! let me try 07:25:21 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 07:25:21 is the lack of threads that's causing this? 07:25:25 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-sfltuvswrdrhwweu] has joined #lisp 07:25:57 msxx: together with lack of interrupts and signals, yes (mine has some support for all these) 07:26:09 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:29 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-147-44.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:47 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:31:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 07:32:31 oh got some odd errors now. should I have not removed the official SBCL first? 07:32:47 fatal error encountered in SBCL pid 6308(tid 4009208): can't find core file at C:\Program Files\Steel Bank Common Lisp\1.0.50\/sbcl.core 07:33:36 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:33:59 it installed itself at C:\Program Files\Steel Bank Common Lisp\1.0.52.0.mswinmt.968-5425b01 07:34:12 msxx: either remove the official one, or activate SBCL_HOME when setting up mine, or use a stand-alone executable that doesn't require installation and works independently of SBCL_HOME, or give sbcl.exe a --core option 07:34:14 but is looking for sbcl.core in C:\Program Files\Steel Bank Common Lisp\1.0.50\ 07:34:59 sorry that was my mistake, I already made SBCL_HOME a while ago 07:36:31 works perfect now! thanks! 07:37:02 SLIME is quitting the loop on C-c C-c as expected 07:39:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:40:00 does SBCL plan to include these changes to their official implementation 07:41:01 yes, David Lichteblau is working on it (some of I/O related changes already made their way into the mainline this autumn) 07:41:14 -!- xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has left #lisp 07:41:44 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:41:44 -!- df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:43:27 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 07:45:23 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:45:24 good morning everyone 07:45:49 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.36.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:50:14 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:28 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 07:51:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-22.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:56:01 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:59:14 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.13.214] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 07:59:26 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 08:02:07 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@250.Red-79-151-255.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:08:19 easyE [viNbc9GuD2@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 08:09:38 dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has joined #lisp 08:09:52 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 08:09:56 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 08:10:49 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:10:59 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 08:11:29 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 08:11:36 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@180.121.147.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:11:58 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:17:52 Joreji [~thomas@94-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 08:18:01 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.110.178.173] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:19:56 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:20:07 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mvzjicabvtzeexmf] has joined #lisp 08:21:30 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-mxhvqgbfjjyggycu] has joined #lisp 08:22:04 wolfpython [~wolf@180.110.178.173] has joined #lisp 08:24:28 -!- p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-gxutxzfgbdajgroc] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:24:51 -!- MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-9-245.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:25:45 sylecn [~sylecn@180.121.147.249] has joined #lisp 08:28:00 H4ns [5ddb9ff3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.159.243] has joined #lisp 08:33:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:34:28 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.84] has joined #lisp 08:34:28 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.84] has quit [Changing host] 08:34:28 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 08:37:09 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.21] has joined #lisp 08:37:38 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 08:37:48 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 08:38:39 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:40:17 lain_ [~lain@p5795B0A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:25 hi 08:41:33 ai-class is a mess :) 08:42:40 -!- sylecn [~sylecn@180.121.147.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:45:04 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:45:33 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:45:38 df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 08:46:33 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 08:46:42 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 08:48:07 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 08:48:25 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:52:39 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:52:52 mcsontos_ [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bfkuarwmdndaymes] has joined #lisp 08:53:20 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:53:31 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 08:53:59 Error while trying to load definition for system gsll from 08:53:59 pathname 08:54:00 /home/angel/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/gsll-20111001-git/gsll.asd: 08:54:00 The variable #:CFFI-GROVEL is unbound. 08:54:18 please help I've got this error on (ql:quickload "gsll") 08:55:06 -!- dnjaramba_ [~dnjaramba@41.72.206.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:56:43 -!- mcsontos_ [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bfkuarwmdndaymes] has quit [Client Quit] 09:03:04 :( 09:05:22 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.76] has joined #lisp 09:05:30 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.76] has quit [Changing host] 09:05:31 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 09:06:19 -!- sbryant [~freenode@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.in] 09:08:00 sbryant [~freenode@ghanima.slavasaur.com] has joined #lisp 09:08:28 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 09:09:55 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-xgzrlkdvwgwlyfec] has joined #lisp 09:10:01 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 09:12:25 -!- easyE [viNbc9GuD2@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:14:29 joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has joined #lisp 09:17:24 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 09:22:31 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:01 I am not on linux now, can someone test this in SLIME + SBCL? if you do (loop) in the REPL, can you still compile function with C-c C-c ? 09:27:19 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 09:28:40 msxx: it should work when swank:*communication-style* is :spawn (that's normally the case on multithreaded SBCL, except for SLIME versions older than September 2011 on Windows) 09:29:45 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 09:30:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:30:21 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:31:42 I see thanks again! 09:34:35 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:34:53 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 09:35:29 -!- H4ns [5ddb9ff3@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.159.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 09:35:53 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:36:10 Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 09:41:29 I've manually (setf swank:*communication-style* :spawn) in the REPL, and I still can't compile function while the sbcl process is busy looping. do I have to install newer SWANK/SLIME? 09:41:45 Posterdati: Does (ql:quickload "cffi-grovel") help? 09:42:21 no 09:42:25 MrMc [~user@91-65-142-36-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:30 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:42:36 I reinstalled quicklisp erasing quicklisp dir 09:42:40 but no effect 09:42:43 same error 09:44:53 :( 09:45:27 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:47:13 I need gsll to performa math simulation 09:47:15 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Quit: HULK ANGRY! HULK DISCONNECT!] 09:48:08 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 09:48:50 When using the defstruct macro is it possible to use *-supplied-p 09:49:51 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Client Quit] 09:50:05 MrMc: BOA lambda lists? 09:52:15 MrMc: like that: (&key (foo nil foo-supplied-p) (bar (if foo-supplied-p ...))) 09:54:25 gensym: I quickloaded gsll on another machine from scratch and it loaded 09:54:36 akovalenko: yes 09:55:08 MrMc: let me clarify -- I meant "BOA lambda lists" as the answer :) 09:55:29 Posterdati: same here on Debian and SBCL 09:55:52 gensym: I tested it on another debian and it worked 09:56:17 gensym: but I didn't upgrade quicklisp on the working distro 09:56:46 gensym: maybe (ql:use-only-quicklisp-systems) is worth trying. (and don't forget apt-get install libgsl0-dev) 09:57:12 akovalenko: it worked before 09:57:33 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-203-210.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:57:59 akovalenko: same problem 09:58:07 I have the current ql-version, debian is squeeze and sbcl is 1.0.51 09:58:16 me too 09:58:29 works here on wheezy/sbcl-1.0.52/use-only-ql-systems 09:58:30 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 10:00:33 -!- pspace [~andrew@adsl-76-243-177-231.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:36 akovalenko:thanks for the right pointer. I must define a constructor and furnish my lamda-list is this so? 10:01:48 MrMc: yep, like this. CLHS 3.4.6 "Boa Lambda Lists" includes some examples 10:02:27 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 10:04:04 akovalenko:Once again thanks 10:04:53 hi, I have a procedure (within a loop) that I want to inspect when a certain local variable > a value (e.g 800). so I added this: (when (> temp 800) (break))... but then when it breaks I can't see any of the local variables and the backtrace is uniformative... I cannot use step here because the amount of data is huge for single stepping 10:05:56 question: how can this be done better? 10:05:57 francogrex: try recompiling with (declare (optimize debug)) at the start of your defun body 10:06:39 ah, so that might be it then... I'll try 10:07:24 francogrex: in SLIME, giving a prefix argument for defun recompilation makes it use maximum debug settings. like this: C-u C-c C-c 10:07:35 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mvzjicabvtzeexmf] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:08:26 ok 10:09:30 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:15:39 Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 10:16:43 still nada: all I get when L -> SB-KERNEL::ARGUMENTS = NIL and SB-KERNEL::DATUM = "break" 10:17:05 francogrex: and if you go up one frame? 10:17:07 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 10:17:18 how? 10:17:20 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 10:17:36 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:17:47 francogrex: if you use console REPL and not SLIME, then :help will tell you how. 10:18:07 ok; yes I use inferior-lisp mode 10:18:14 francogrex: if you use SLIME, you just left-click or hit on frames to browse them 10:18:46 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 10:18:49 ok it's UP 10:19:14 but it's telling me am already at the top 10:19:33 of the stack, need to go down 10:19:54 ok it worked with down 10:19:57 thanks 10:21:14 akovalen` [~anton@95.72.97.89] has joined #lisp 10:22:03 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: benkard] 10:23:03 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.73.107.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:23:38 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 10:24:09 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:21 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:29:21 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:31 Athas` [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:29:56 lutok [~luckystok@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:30:53 H4ns [57a9e1c0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.225.192] has joined #lisp 10:32:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.90.1] 10:33:44 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:02 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:36:23 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:39:35 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 10:43:15 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:43:23 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:44:22 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has left #lisp 10:44:41 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BB5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:51 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-mxhvqgbfjjyggycu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:53:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-161-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:53:13 -!- msxx [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 10:53:33 Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 10:54:30 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:55:10 -!- lutok [~luckystok@ip98-169-240-101.dc.dc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 11:00:50 -!- CrazyEddy [~delighted@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:03:10 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 11:03:43 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.76] has joined #lisp 11:03:43 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.76] has quit [Changing host] 11:03:43 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 11:04:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-203-210.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 11:04:41 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-161-189.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 11:05:32 -!- Athas` [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:05:44 Athas` [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 11:06:27 pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has joined #lisp 11:07:26 I'm through using plain ccl... which IDE is easy to use for Linux? 11:07:28 and good? 11:08:11 I'm pretty sure most would recommend emacs + slime. I can't give you any overview though, since I never used it. 11:08:33 what do you use? 11:08:35 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:08:52 and... is there a vi with slime 11:10:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:10:32 I use plain vim, but I'm a) a newbie and b) impractical 11:10:33 pitlimit: ccl has hemlock. 11:10:43 hemlock ? 11:10:45 pitlimit, phryk: use slimv 11:10:45 There is a slime alternative for vim afaik 11:10:46 pitlimit: otherwise the most use ide is emacs+slime. 11:10:46 ok i will google it 11:10:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-160-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:10:55 flip214, is slimv any good? 11:10:57 flip214: that the slime alternative for vim? 11:11:00 pitlimit: very good 11:11:03 yes, it is 11:11:07 :) 11:11:08 actively developed, 11:11:08 cool 11:11:16 developer very responsive 11:11:21 flip214: I wanted to look into that this weekend anyway :) 11:11:31 yeah, he calls himself flip214 if i'm not mistaken 11:11:34 I hate having to reload my docs 11:11:49 H4ns: no, I'm not the developer ... it's Tamás 11:11:58 flip214: ah, ok! 11:12:01 my bad. 11:12:01 I'm just reporting bugs, wishes, etc, and send the occasional patch 11:12:05 never mind 11:12:14 um 11:12:17 has anyone else used slimv 11:12:18 I'm a modest person, I don't advertise myself 11:12:24 :) 11:12:37 flip214: shut up! sys 64738 ; 11:12:40 pitlimit: yes, slimv is the #3 or #4 most-voted for vim plugin on github 11:12:44 sorry 11:12:45 hagish [~hagish@p54982F13.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:12:47 Posterdati: :qa! 11:12:48 ok 11:12:48 flip214: shut up! sys 64738 : sys 64738 11:12:59 Posterdati: go away 11:13:05 Posterdati: Ctrl-X Ctrl-X Ctrl-X (quit) 11:13:11 nooooooooooo 11:13:46 pitlimit: just try slimv .... if you're used to vim, it's much easier than learning emacs (at least IMO) 11:14:08 ok just making sure you're not biased toward it :) 11:14:26 nothing worse than learning things and then finding out later it's crappy :) 11:14:47 pitlimit: of course I'm biased ... ask the others here about slime, and they'll tell you good points too 11:15:05 if you're feeling lucky, try the mercurial checkout ... there's something new almost every day 11:15:17 feeling lucky? 11:15:26 as a programmer do u ever want to hope to be lucky :) 11:16:04 pitlimit: all the time ... I've spent so much time finding alpha particles in memory that I like to be lucky 11:16:44 do you know waht package name I might search for to install it 11:17:18 doesn't turn up anything when I search for slimv 11:18:49 http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 11:19:14 alexgordon [~alexgordo@host-2-97-43-32.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:24 flip214: I've got a nasty problem with gsll and sbcl 11:19:55 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:20:43 what's gsll? 11:26:09 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:29:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-221-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:34:07 -!- xan_ [~xan@183.Red-81-32-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:35 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:38:15 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-203-210.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:41 -!- MrMc [~user@91-65-142-36-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:57 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:46:31 -!- nicdev__ [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:10 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.208.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:49:40 cmm [~cmm@109.67.212.191] has joined #lisp 11:50:32 gsll uses antik, which was slow when i tested it, matlisp was faster 11:56:42 nicdev__ [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:58:36 replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:00:26 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:00:50 zyg [d572af0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.114.175.13] has joined #lisp 12:01:51 The funcall-lambda fells awkward in: (let (done) (remote-eval `(progn (do-work) (funcall ,(lambda () (setf obj :done))) (loop until done))) 12:05:32 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:06:36 I would like to treat the cons object as a clos-object as in: (let ((done (make-instance ...)) (remove-eval `(progn (do-work) (setf ,done :done))) (loop until done))) 12:09:10 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.82.86.27] has joined #lisp 12:10:37 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:10:45 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:10 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest86044 12:14:35 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:15:17 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-173.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:13 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:18:14 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 12:18:14 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:42 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:19:52 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:20:07 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:20:58 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:25:35 setheus [~setheus@cpe-72-190-66-192.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:26:33 -!- alexgordon [~alexgordo@host-2-97-43-32.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:27:12 -!- nicdev__ [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:27:20 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 12:27:35 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:28:04 -!- zyg [d572af0d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.213.114.175.13] has left #lisp 12:28:44 FreeArtMan_ [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:28:46 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Client Quit] 12:28:49 -!- FreeArtMan_ [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:54 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-168-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:28:56 hiho 12:29:04 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:29:06 -!- lain_ [~lain@p5795B0A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:30:02 so I am now using SET-MACRO-CHARACTER for the first time and I am wondering if I can somehow restrict the "scope" of the reader macro 12:30:48 because it works in all packages wich would break with other packages that define a reader macro on the same character eh? 12:31:35 lain_ [~lain@p5795B0A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:32:22 wakeup: there are named-readtables, which may help you. in general, i'd advise against using reader macros. they rarely add value, but often confusion. 12:32:56 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:33:33 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:58 wakeup: macro characters are local to a readtable; if you set them in your own readtable, there should be no confilct. 12:36:03 conflict even 12:36:04 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:15 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-207-226.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 12:37:28 i have a macro that takes two optional arguments, and to distinguish both one of them is a list with first element being :ATTRIBUTES, now I thought writing [...] instead of (:attributes ...) was better since a macro (aset ..) expanding to (:attributes ...) did not work... 12:38:00 Xach: regarding your latest lisp tip, initforms vs. initargs ... the page you reference says "default initargs take priority over initforms." 12:38:09 the [...] syntax makes my DSL way more concise 12:38:10 wakeup: maybe it's just me, but you're not making much sense. 12:38:24 If some class defines initargs, can classes that inherit from it still use initforms, or are they just ignored? 12:39:01 flip214: you cannot define an initarg, only declare. 12:39:52 flip214: and subclasses can override a lot of stuff from parent classes, including initargs and initforms. 12:40:21 well, they cannot "override" initargs, just declare additional ones 12:41:15 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-147-44.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:41:51 xan_ [~xan@22.Red-83-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:53 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:43:46 nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has joined #lisp 12:44:07 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:12 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 12:45:43 jdz: I meant that if some class uses :initform and some other that inherits that uses :default-initargs, does that work as expected? I assume that it does, but it's not clear from the textual description. 12:46:31 flip214: initforms are only used if initargs are not provided 12:46:47 flip214: the point of the posting is: don't use :initforms 12:46:49 flip214: which text do you find unclear? 12:47:04 H4ns: really? 12:47:07 flip214: It's not quite clear what you're expecting, but CLHS 7.1.3 seems to be exhaustive 12:47:12 jdz: i read it like that. 12:48:07 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 12:48:20 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 12:48:22 jdz: it was certainly not an attempt to be clearer than the standard about what is used when. that's what the standard is for, and there is secondary literature, too. 12:49:20 Man, there seems to be a lot of ECLM turnover this year. Glad to see that the spots refill quickly, though. 12:49:51 sellout: who would turn down a free dinner (and even a free train ride now, wow)? 12:50:35 H4ns: Well, I hope they're at least lispers ;) 12:50:53 no plane tickets? 12:55:48 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 12:56:01 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:58:48 lispers eat brackets for lunch and for dinner too :) 13:00:16 some have even an embracing attitude 13:00:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:00:46 -!- pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:01:37 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:24 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-213-172.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:04:43 -!- billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:05:43 superflit [~superflit@71-33-156-209.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:14 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:07:39 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: synergy upgrade] 13:08:43 antgreen [~user@70.50.66.43] has joined #lisp 13:11:36 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-135-201-188.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 13:11:43 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:12:29 lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 13:13:48 I am trying to export/shadow *readtable* and define it anew but when I modify my package-local copy of *readtable* BOTH cl-user's *readtable* and mypkg's:*readtable* get modified? what did I do wrong? 13:14:23 wakeup: what did you try to achieve what you want? 13:15:18 basically: (defpackage foo (:use :cl) (:shadow :*readtable*) (:export *readtable*)) (in-package :foo) (defparameter *readtable* (copy-readtable)) (set-macro-character ...) 13:16:26 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.212.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:16:38 wakeup: don't want to shadow *readtable* unless you're rewriting the whole Lisp reader from scratch 13:16:53 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:05 G'morning all. 13:17:20 akovalenko: how else do I get a different *readtable* in package foo? 13:17:25 oi nyef 13:18:18 wakeup: no way. You can assign to cl:*readtable* in your files, and that'll be "file-local" because LOAD rebinds CL:*READTABLE* 13:18:21 pnq [~nick@AC8342AB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:48 cmm [~cmm@109.67.212.191] has joined #lisp 13:19:07 wakeup: named-readtables provide a convenience macro (in-readtable), similar to (in-package ...), that may be useful for you 13:19:09 so there is no way to use a package and have that modify the *readtable*? 13:19:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:04 you could save the readtable. modify it for your definitions and set it back afterwards. i think. 13:20:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:20:58 packages and readtables are completely orthogonal, there's no real way to automatically change one when changing the other. 13:21:21 hmm ok 13:21:36 named-readtables seems to be what I want 13:22:05 so the standard doesn't really provide facilities to use *readtable* properly, does it? 13:22:27 named readtables are mucho good 13:22:39 *maxm-* uses inverted named readtable with no problem 13:22:40 named-readtables are much good 13:22:45 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:23:33 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host227.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:23:35 wakeup: LOAD's rebinding of cl:*readtable* is the facility that the standard provides for proper readtable use (it eliminates the need to "reset to the old readtable in the end") 13:23:44 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:24:44 how awesome it would have been if (read) was hooked up into CLOS and used GF with methods eql-specialized on package names 13:25:31 pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has joined #lisp 13:25:42 Is Lispbox an okay IDE to use? 13:25:51 wakeup: also, IN-READTABLE macro takes care of EVAL-WHEN wrapping required for file-compilation (if you prefer (setf *readtable* ...) in the end, make sure to look at IN-READTABLE expansion and learn from it first) 13:26:15 Xach: I've got problem using quicklisp to load gsll: on a machine (debian squeeze: emacs23-x 23.2.1, sbcl 1:1.0.40.0-3, slime 1:20100722-1, quicklisp 2011-05-22) it works, on other machine with same software but quicklisp 2011-10-01 it won't load gsll complaining about cffi-grovel: The variable #:CFFI-GROVEL is unbound. 13:26:15 [Condition of type ASDF:LOAD-SYSTEM-DEFINITION-ERROR] 13:27:24 Test 13:27:36 sry 13:28:38 pitlimit: lispbox is outdated. 13:28:50 I just need something that is plug and play at this point 13:28:54 I cannot get slimv installed 13:29:32 I don't care for plain ccl 13:30:19 pitlimit: IIRC, lispbox sets up emacs & slime for you. 13:30:42 but then why is it considered outdated, sellout ? 13:31:04 pitlimit: I think because current versions of things have all changed enough to make it not work. 13:31:24 so sellout I can use lispbox to install emacs and slime and then just use the emacs and slime bit? 13:32:05 pitlimit: If you are prepared to use lispbox, then you were prepared to use emacs. So install emacs, go (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") in your lisp, and you are pretty good to go :) 13:32:15 ok 13:32:34 it's too bad that none of these are in the Ubuntu repositories :) 13:32:56 *maxm-* finds himself in need of virtual slots 13:33:04 what? emacs? Sure is. SBCL pretty sure, too 13:33:20 wondering if I should use lispworks example virtual slot implementation, or just replace (slot-value) with (my-slot-value) and specialize on that 13:33:20 pitlimit: (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper"), when quickloaded, will print a snippet to put into your ~/.emacs 13:33:27 its only like 3 places 13:33:40 you are using ubuntu? Then apt-get install emacs sbcl slime does what you want 13:33:58 Neronus, any idea how to get slimv working on ubuntu? :) 13:34:02 then in emacs, M-x slime and... magic :) 13:34:04 I'm not an emacs lover 13:34:15 pitlimit: google vimpulse 13:34:22 pitlimit: start enjoying life 13:34:24 pitlimit: Not in the slightest. I like vim and emacs, but for lisp slime+emacs is just cool 13:34:35 pablos [~pablo@31.189.172.205] has joined #lisp 13:34:39 its emacs thats vim 13:34:47 -!- pablos [~pablo@31.189.172.205] has quit [Client Quit] 13:34:55 or is it vim thats emacs? 13:34:56 or vim thats emacs... well anyhow you think about it its the best thing ever invented in computing 13:35:13 I still don't really understand WHY I cannot shadow *readtable*, I am totally willing to accept that I can't but I want to know why... 13:35:53 wakeup: you _can_ shadow *readtable*, but _your_ *readtable* won't affect the reader, because it uses cl:*readtable* 13:35:59 the "right" visual mode, with point "inclusive", so V selects current line, but acting like a both visual mode, and emacs region 13:36:11 er, because you can't shadow common-lisp symbols? 13:36:34 oGMo: you can 13:37:03 In fact, shadowing readtable is a great way to read potentially unsafe outside data (using explicit calls to read) 13:37:04 not if you're conforming 13:37:06 hmm kind of annoying 13:37:18 why do you need to shadow readtable? Just (named-readtables:in-readtable :my-readtable) on top of your file 13:37:31 and yes, use named-readtables, better for everyone 13:37:37 oGMo: wrong 13:37:45 vimpulse :) maxm 13:37:46 :) 13:38:09 my setup is I have (eval-always (named-readtable:defreadtable)) in package.lisp, and (named-readtables:in-readtable) right after (cl:in-package) in every other file 13:38:53 I thought best behaviour would be if you could use a package and that automatically sets the readtable 13:39:27 wakeup: there isn't anything that works like that 13:39:29 don't make easy things complicated... working with readtable will take 0.01% of time in your project, just use named readtables and forget about them 13:39:30 akovalenko: sure you can bind dynamic variables .. actually i have this strong sense of deja vu here .. 13:40:00 oGMo: and you can _shadow_ any _symbol_ (not binding!) in CL 13:40:09 yeah I just wanted to explain why I wanted to shadow *readtable* 13:40:18 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:40:54 but next time someone defines CL just make the reader use *readtable* unless there is some good reason not to 13:41:28 wakeup: ok, what you want is to modify default readtable 13:41:34 current state is confusing to at least one person ;) 13:41:55 its not a very good idea, because the code you loading expects the standard readtable (if they expect a different one, they would set their own) 13:42:06 also you are confusing shadowing and binding 13:42:43 maxm-: no in order to use a different *readtable* the code' package would have to shadow *readtable* or resolve the conflict 13:43:22 someone else clue him in 13:43:47 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:51 you shadowing the readtable does not in any way affect load.lisp, which was parsed 1 year ago when SBCL was built 13:44:10 if you want to change which *readtable* symbol load.lisp uses, you have to shadow it when "load.lisp" itself is loaded 13:44:31 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:46:30 ok, so say I load a file: load resets the readtable, so it looks for the default-readtable whis is say cl:*default-readtable* and copies it to cl:*readtable* 13:47:12 load _rebinds_ cl:*readtable* (not copies, and not shadows, and not "unshadows" it) 13:48:48 still does not explain the problem if the reader just used the next best *readtable* instead of cl:*readtable* 13:49:07 wakeup: the reader never uses anything other than CL:*READTABLE* 13:49:08 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 13:49:45 ok why? 13:50:22 its like you know C language right? 13:50:27 yep 13:50:31 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [] 13:50:36 lets say you compiled a program that prints hello world 13:50:57 they you are changing GCC so that when it reads string "hello" it would actually replace it with "goodbye" 13:51:21 it no way that will affect the ./a.out file you already compiled 13:51:49 I get that 13:51:55 no matter how many times you change GCC to read "goodbye" when it encounters "hello" string, whatever it had already parser previously using old parser, stays that way 13:52:22 but that is a condition caused by the reader using cl:*readtable instead of *readtable*, right? 13:52:54 -!- Guest86044 [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 12wks 6days 1hr 20mins 41secs] 13:52:59 wakeup: the reader always (always) uses cl:*readtable*, no matter what you do 13:53:07 source code for load is simplified (defun load (file) (let ((cl:*readtable* cl:*readtable*)) (eval (read (input-file-stream ..file....))))) 13:53:16 yes I get that 13:53:18 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:38 I am trying to understand why they would write load like this in the first place 13:53:51 once the above function is defined, shadowing *readtable* in your own package, just makes your package code see whatever:*readtable*, rathern then cl:*readtable* 13:54:15 its in no way changes the fact that (load) uses cl:*readtable* and will continue to do so, unless you define your own (load) function 13:54:48 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8342AB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:54:56 why did they make load suck like that? 13:55:02 wakeup: you do it so you guarantee that no matter how much each file screws up with *readtable*, every time you (load) its back to its original state 13:55:07 wakeup: the idea is that you _bind_ cl:*readtable* to the readtable that you like to use 13:55:39 It's an anti-moron protection device. Lisp have needed this kind of protection for a long time... 13:55:44 wakeup: otherwise lets say you loaded "troll.lisp" which swapped around open andclose parentesis with each other.. Suddenly any more loads would not work 13:55:59 okay I get it 13:56:02 but its stupid 13:56:23 I usually expect to be able to fuck my lisp up 13:56:32 oh you can 13:56:40 (defun load do whatever you want) 13:56:42 wakeup: You can  assign whatever readtable to cl:*readtable* you want. 13:57:14 or get cl-advice and make an :around advice on (load) and bind your own readtable or whatever, just don't expect to do anything productive with it 13:57:35 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:57:39 so if they defined load 'unsafe' in the first place named-readtables would be obsolete 13:58:39 -!- djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:58:45 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c080a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:47 where unsafe is actually dynamic 13:59:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@22.Red-83-38-180.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:59:47 wakeup: Can you define load the way you're thinking? So we can see an example. 14:00:10 (defun load (file) (let 14:00:10 ((cl:*readtable* cl:*readtable*)) (eval (read (input-file-stream 14:00:10 ..file....))))) 14:00:19 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 14:00:23 just replace cl*readtable* width *readtable* 14:00:34 djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:44 o/ 14:00:48 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-28-16.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:00:57 wakeup, i'm sorry but you have to take a step back here 14:01:06 ahoy nikodemus 14:01:24 wakeup: There is no such thing as just *readtable*. Every symbol is associated with some package 14:01:38 you have gotten into your head fundamentally wrong concept about when stuff is being parsed, evaluated and such... First fix that, and then it will fall into place 14:01:43 Xach: in amsterdam yet? 14:01:52 yes, just settling in at the hotel. 14:01:54 ok I get it now 14:02:05 *Xach* starts an #eclm channel 14:02:08 i'm flying in tomorrow morning 14:02:13 oh, goog idea 14:02:17 good, even 14:02:28 the whole package logic comes after load so its impossible to make the former affect the latter 14:02:43 wakeup: good .. Based on your comments you seem to imagine that code gets re-parsed every time its executed 14:03:07 its not.. once code is parsed by (read) into the list structure, it stays that way 14:03:45 hi 14:03:53 thanks for clearing this up for me 14:03:55 wakeup: not impossible (as find-symbol and intern are available at runtime, you could write a version of LOAD with your desired behavior), but stupid 14:04:23 brb 14:04:26 reboot 14:04:29 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-168-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: "GAY HARD CREW IN THE HOUSE (MAYBE NOT ANYMORE)"] 14:04:51 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:06:23 gebe [RALLYPENIS@nl104-214-20.student.uu.se] has joined #lisp 14:07:12 wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-168-202.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:08:47 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:13:40 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 14:13:56 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 14:16:20 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 14:16:56 udzinari [user@nat/ibm/x-uagqljvpvvvypnaq] has joined #lisp 14:20:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:26 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:21:57 benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d855640.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:00 ISF [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has joined #lisp 14:28:09 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 14:29:30 devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:53 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 14:30:06 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:31:13 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 14:34:46 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: rebooting] 14:36:55 in-readtable fucks up everything for me, e.g. no more symbols anywhere 14:44:24 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:44:24 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 14:47:33 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 14:48:53 easyE [BxbCHZeojE@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 14:49:47 wakeup: Perhaps your readtable is screwed? 14:50:09 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-5d855640.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:47 -!- udzinari [user@nat/ibm/x-uagqljvpvvvypnaq] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:13 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 14:51:34 (defreadtable ) will create empty readtables, unless something like (:merge nil) is given 14:52:03 benkard__ [~benkard@mnch-d9bdd6f2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:09 i have a list of ( (1.2) (2.3) (3.4) ) con pairs 14:52:18 whats' the best way to delete duplicates 14:52:23 that have the same key 14:52:33 assuming that (k.v) of cons 14:52:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-207-226.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:53:02 these are floaring point numbers, unless you forgot to type spaces in here. 14:53:07 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.137] has joined #lisp 14:53:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-207-226.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 14:53:17 prxq: sorry yup spaces 14:53:22 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d855640.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:53:22 -!- benkard__ is now known as benkard 14:53:27 troydm: check the delete-duplicates page in the clhs 14:53:28 ( (1 . 2) (1 . 3) ) 14:54:20 prxq: thx 14:54:24 -!- benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-5d855640.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:21 akovalenko: I do (:merge :standard) 14:58:26 -!- _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:00:05 alexgordon [~alexgordo@host-2-97-43-32.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:06 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-14.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:08 -!- easyE [BxbCHZeojE@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:07:05 (defreadtable syntax (:merge :standard) (:macro-char #\[ #'read-attribute-set) (:macro-char #\] (get-macro-character #\))) (:case :preserve)) 15:07:19 what could be the rpoblem here? 15:08:00 wakeup: with :case :preserve, SYMBOL NAMES IN :CL SHOULD BE UPPER CASE to be found 15:08:46 wakeup: :case :invert has somewhat funny semantics, but it can be more practical (it's "preserve mixed-case names, invert others") 15:08:50 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:09:09 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:58 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-252.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:10:02 if you using case preserve, you have to type your code in caps 15:10:06 use case invert 15:10:24 -!- Kron is now known as Guest262 15:10:28 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:10:47 then blah will be read as (intern "BLAH"), BLAH will be read as (intern "blah") and camelCasedStuff will be read as itself 15:11:45 okay 15:12:07 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-109-151-121.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:13 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:12:30 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:12:35 I get this warning too: WARNING: Invalid version "1.0 (unpublished so far)" for component "named-readtables" 15:12:45 weird 15:14:04 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: work!] 15:14:40 yea I get it too,its supposed to be a number I think 15:15:30 maxm-, wakeup: quicklispable one in 0.9, maybe it's better to stick to it 15:17:05 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 15:17:59 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:20:12 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:25:49 -!- antgreen [~user@70.50.66.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:26:54 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.110.178.173] has quit [Quit: ] 15:27:08 -!- cmm [~cmm@109.67.212.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:27:43 cmm [~cmm@109.67.212.191] has joined #lisp 15:28:53 if we have the word "quicklispable", then we also have "to quicklisp", right? 15:31:41 ... And here I would have thought the word would be "quickloadable". 15:31:51 does sbcl have recursion limit? 15:32:10 ... not if you have a TCO situation. 15:32:10 like how many times can i recursivly call one and the same fun) 15:32:16 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 15:32:34 Otherwise, you'll run into your control stack guard page. 15:32:41 nyef: TCO? 15:32:50 Tail chain/call optimization. 15:33:09 nyef: how do i enable it? 15:33:12 The "convert call-to-jump" thing. 15:33:22 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 15:33:26 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:33:31 Umm... Someone put together a document about TCO on various implementations recently. 15:33:47 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 15:34:26 At the very least, however, your recursive call has to be in "tail position". 15:34:35 troydm: it's not something you "enable" 15:34:36 so basicly if i call my fun recursivly from the tale of the same function 15:34:41 it won't hit the limit 15:34:43 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:34:45 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:34:45 And then there's some policy settings that need to be set up right 15:34:52 *tail* 15:35:02 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:06 troydm: yes 15:35:11 Might be debug < 2 and space > 0 or something, not sure. 15:35:25 troydm: will oop forever: (defun foo (n) (foo (1+ n))) 15:35:36 troydm: will fail: (defun foo (n) (1+ (foo n))) 15:35:56 troydm: if either SPACE or SPEED is > DEBUG, TCO is done 15:35:56 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:18 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 15:36:42 (i wonder if we should change that default, though, so that TCO is /disabled/ if DEBUG > SPEED and SPACE) 15:36:43 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:43 nikodemus: is the default for SPACE = 2? 15:36:47 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:53 default for /everything/ is 1 15:37:11 nikodemus: well, then your statement can't be right, since TCO is done by default 15:37:17 are you sure it's not >= ? 15:37:17 xan_ [~xan@183.Red-81-32-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:48 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:57 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@118.45.149.199] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:37:58 loke: tco is not on by default, sorry 15:38:15 (describe-compiler-policy) at the repl to see your situation 15:38:43 nikodemus: how come I don't run into the goard page with my example above then? 15:38:44 if everything is at 1, you have the line "SB-C::MERGE-TAIL-CALLS = 1 -> 0 (no)" there 15:39:27 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:39:30 *nyef* sees "SB-C::MERGE-TAIL-CALLS = 1 -> 0 (no)" in his just-built SBCL. 15:39:41 Now, SLIME and whatnot might alter the default policy. 15:39:44 same here. (disassemble (labels ((foo () (1+ (foo)))) #'foo)) 15:40:00 nikodemus: not using SLIME. Just runnign from the command line 15:40:05 It loops forever 15:40:07 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-4d04e0ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:17 If I add a DEBUG=3, then i run into the guard page 15:40:23 interesting 15:40:29 something funny happening there 15:40:34 1.0.52 15:40:48 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:40:48 nikodemus: But I remember testing the same thing way back, at least 1.0.3x 15:40:58 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_nop 15:41:55 DEBUG=2 also disables the TCO. 15:42:11 but let's say i have (defun f(x) (if (< x 30) (f (1+ x)) nil)) 15:42:14 loke: for unreleated reasons 15:42:19 will it tco? 15:42:33 troydm: yes 15:42:48 troydm: Yes, because the recursive call is in tail position. 15:42:54 as you can see, the last call to F will immediately return the result 15:43:11 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-d9bdd6f2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:43:12 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 15:44:00 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:44:00 ok i'll try to play with it to see what happens 15:44:15 hah, it's a bug in our tail-annotate 15:44:15 nikodemus: it is interesting that the compiler policy says merge=no, but that I still get it. Interesting. :-) 15:44:37 have a fix, but changing it might actually be a tad controversial :) 15:45:09 So, what's the bug? 15:45:25 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:45:31 nikodemus: how about fixing it, but change the behaviour of the policy so that all values at 1 will enable th eoptimisation? That will leave the current behaviour unchanged. yes? 15:46:08 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-22-54.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:27 is (policy use merge-tail-calls), should be (policy use (plusp merge-tail-calls)) 15:46:29 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 15:48:44 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has joined #lisp 15:48:57 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e0ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:08 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 15:52:29 -!- H4ns [57a9e1c0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.225.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:53:18 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 15:55:02 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e0ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:03 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 16:01:36 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-sfltuvswrdrhwweu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:03 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:37 -!- hagish [~hagish@p54982F13.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:05:09 -!- gebe [RALLYPENIS@nl104-214-20.student.uu.se] has left #lisp 16:05:12 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:08:16 -!- yoos [yoos@shell.onid.oregonstate.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:08:17 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:32 vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:13:48 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 16:17:35 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:37 hagish [~hagish@p549819A3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:26 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:12 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e0ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:19:33 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 16:20:22 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:21:43 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: going home] 16:22:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.137] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:22:39 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:22:41 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:25:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:25:06 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:25:06 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 16:25:23 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:26:10 benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e0ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:28 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:27:05 morris [~morris@210.117.152.122] has joined #lisp 16:27:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:30 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:29:14 Bike_ [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:29:31 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 16:29:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:29:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:30:03 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:31:23 man asdf2 needs to fix the fact that it tries to compile all the files first before loading the ones that don't need compiling 16:31:26 its counter-intuitive 16:31:29 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:01 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:32:10 if I have system of 3 files a b c (without :serial t), then if all of them are out of date, the order of ops is, compile a, load a, compile b, load b, compile c, load c 16:32:27 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p57920D48.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:32:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:32 but a and b are up to date, then order of ops is, complile c, load c, load a, load b 16:32:35 maxm-: http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/2008/12/beginners-guide-to-asdf-ha.html (specifically, (4)) 16:33:14 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:33:15 well that was only psychologically helpful :-) 16:33:22 as in someone else had same frustration 16:33:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:25 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:33:28 heh, kenny has been using asdf since 1998? sounds not too plausible (: 16:33:46 I guess I have 20 years of clojure experience (-: 16:34:02 maxm-: it also gives some historical perspective :) [from 2008, as it seems] 16:34:17 -!- lain_ [~lain@p5795B0A5.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 16:34:30 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:35:09 "for ten years", hmm 16:35:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:35:30 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:36:09 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:36:31 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:36:35 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:05 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:37:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:38 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:37:48 heh, I had forgotten about this post. 16:38:04 did the Project Manager not exist back then? 16:38:05 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:38:18 -!- Guest262 [~Kron@129-97-120-252.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:38:31 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:38:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:38:41 felideon: from comments there: "AllegoCL project manager loads as it goes..." 16:40:35 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 16:40:36 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:43 ah I see. 16:41:01 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:41:45 setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.199] has joined #lisp 16:41:45 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:42:01 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:43:41 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-22-54.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:43:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:05 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:44:41 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:44:42 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:01 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 16:45:30 totzeit [~kirkwood@204.15.3.100] has joined #lisp 16:45:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:37 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 16:46:01 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-103-134.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:47:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:51:00 MrMc [~user@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 16:54:17 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:55:29 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 16:55:42 I have read on BOA lambda lists and defstruct and want to access the supplied-p attribute of a pamameter in the :print-function how is this achieved? 16:57:17 its probably implementation-specific 16:58:36 for sbcl the portable way would be to see if there is #'print-object method specialized on the structure, which you can portably do through MOP 16:59:03 but its probably not required by the spec for :print-function to make a method 16:59:52 MrMc: you must store supplied-p in some slot of your structure 17:01:16 doh /me completely mis-interpreted what supplied-p means, I forgot about that part.. Thought you wanted to figure out if print-function existed for a structure or not 17:01:42 MrMc: that is, one of your BOA parameters will have supplied-p, one of the following parameters uses this supplied-p for initialization, one of the slots gets initialized from that parameter, and your printer examines that slot. 17:02:30 -!- PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:02:32 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:02:44 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:03:14 maxm-: there was some earlier context in this discussion, and I was here :) 17:03:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:38 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:04:40 slime suggestion, in xref mode, there should be a binding to remove method (like in inspector for GF) 17:04:40 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:05:05 silly to go retype #'gf and inspect it in repl to remove the methods 17:07:41 another slime suggestion, inspector should remember *readtable* 17:08:09 francogrex [~user@109.130.109.63] has joined #lisp 17:08:15 because on 1st inspect everything is lower case (as it should with inverted readtable), but g key redisplays everything in caps 17:08:39 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 17:09:21 maxm-: there is a bugtracker for SLIME at launchpad, and a mailing list. Both are good places for suggestions if you want them noticed, especially when stassats is not here :) 17:09:45 yea I'll fire up an email 17:09:47 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:55 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:11:46 -!- billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:50 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.109.63] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:11:53 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:11:57 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-185-173.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:12:00 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:12:21 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:12:29 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-22-54.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:07 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.252.64] has joined #lisp 17:15:05 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@204.15.3.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:17:45 -!- paul0` [~user@200.175.60.205.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:17:58 paul0` [~user@200.175.60.205.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:18:26 wolgo [~jarrod@184-106-197-125.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 17:19:29 Guest262 [~Kron@129-97-120-252.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:20:32 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:45 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:20:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:21:09 akovalenko:I was lost. But looking at the last example in § 3.4.6 Boa Lambda Lists I get the sense of you above post. 17:21:30 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:51 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:22:37 akovalenko:I am indebted. 17:23:03 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 17:23:44 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-103-134.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:25:26 MrMc: well, there's always a "donate" link at https://github.com/akovalenko/sbcl-win32-threads/wiki (I just couldn't resist :)) 17:25:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:56 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:26:17 yates1 [c05b42ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.91.66.186] has joined #lisp 17:26:19 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:26:46 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:27:42 is there a way to build GUI's using common lisp under cygwin? 17:27:43 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:27:54 ideally something that would also build under linux? 17:28:11 yates1: why under cygwin? 17:28:15 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:28:31 Xach: because that's where the rest of our pc-based build system will be 17:28:42 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:28:44 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:28:54 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-64.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:29:14 if it works without cygwin, is it disqualified as a solution? 17:29:15 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:29:33 i guess this component is necessarily limited to that same environment, but i really don't like windows development 17:29:33 aperturefever [20164@ninthfloor.org] has joined #lisp 17:29:35 yates1: if you're lucky with cl-gtk2 on Windows (dunno if there's a cygwin flavor of it), it will be even less problematic on linux 17:29:38 is not.. 17:29:47 francogrex [~user@109.130.109.63] has joined #lisp 17:29:47 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:29:57 Xach: what did you have in mind? 17:30:10 yates1: i think commonqt might work 17:30:14 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:30:21 there's CAPI, also, if you don't have a "spend $0" requirement 17:30:48 i don't know all these - will google to educate myself 17:30:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:30:56 thank you, akovalenko and Xach 17:31:13 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:16 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:31:25 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-64.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:31:32 is sbcl available under windows and/or cygwin? 17:31:55 yates1: CAPI is what many people use people when they write commercial for-pay CL applications for Windows 17:31:56 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:32:12 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:32:13 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:32:21 e.g. InspireData or Piano 5 17:33:10 yates1: SBCL is available for windows (I recommend to use a windows-specific fork of mine, see https://github.com/akovalenko/sbcl-win32-threads/wiki for binaries & sources). 17:34:02 -!- pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:17 akovalenko: wow. guess i asked the right person. thank you 17:34:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:34:40 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:45 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:34:52 akovalenko:sure thing :-) 17:35:01 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-230-13.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:36:51 I prefer to compile sbcl on windows myself 17:36:51 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:19 dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has joined #lisp 17:37:20 I especially tweak the read-line which is no good for windows as it is 17:37:33 has anybody tried to compile sbcl with cmucl lately? 17:37:36 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 17:37:49 *francogrex* compiles sbcl with sbcl 17:37:54 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 17:37:59 why ? 17:38:06 use -noinit ? 17:38:09 -!- MrMc [~user@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:38:11 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 17:38:19 -noinit -nositeinit .... 17:38:30 officially sbcl is trying to be compileable by cmucl, clisp, ccl, etc, but since 1.0.51 it doesnt work with cmucl any more. 17:38:43 how does it break ? 17:38:47 trying? 17:38:54 I think it is more of a happy coincidence when it works. 17:38:55 probably cmucl doesn't work with sbcl anymore 17:39:32 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:39:37 how do i delete mutexes in bordeaux-threads? 17:40:01 troydm: you don't (let them be garbage-collected when they're inaccessible) 17:40:01 i am confused by this conversation - i thought cmucl and sbcl are both cl implementations - why would you "compile" one with the other? 17:40:07 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:40:14 akovalenko: ok spasibo 17:40:33 yates1: they are both written in CL, and require a CL implementation to be built. 17:40:50 yates1: a little like how you need a C compiler to compile GCC, which is written in C. 17:41:02 yates1: ..and one of the points of forking SBCL was to make it "Sanely Bootstrapped", iirc 17:41:05 homie: Error in function C::NOTE-IF-ACCESSOR: 17:41:06 i think it works, but one has to interfere in the process of compiling sbcl with cmucl, cause it tries to recompile several stuff.... 17:41:07 Redefining slot accessor SB!KERNEL::XSET-DATA for structure type SB!INT:XSET 17:41:12 ah. so you were being quite literal. i see. 17:41:18 and sometimes it works sometimes not...that's right 17:41:20 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.252.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:41:29 yates1: CMUCL can only be built by itself, but SBCL can be built by itself and sometimes others. 17:42:00 Xach: i guess it's irrelevent how the _first_ one was built... ? 17:42:04 *akovalenko* builds sbcl for windows with sbcl for linux 17:42:26 moah: is that some pcl incompatiblity ? 17:42:35 moah: on the C backend ? 17:42:57 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:10 homie, i dont know, i'M not a lisp expert, i just occasionally try out compiling sbcl with clisp and cmucl to check if it still works. 17:43:50 it began genesis here.... 17:43:57 it works ..... 17:43:59 until now 17:44:10 so is CAPI an independent (of compiler vendor) cl GUI framework, or does it HAVE to be used with LispWorks? 17:44:19 there's just some recompiles or skips necessary..... 17:44:40 it's not irrelevant how the 1st was build. I think it was assembly 17:44:42 yoos [yoos@shell.onid.oregonstate.edu] has joined #lisp 17:44:54 yates1: yes, it is lispworks-specific. 17:45:24 is it GUI framework or is it network stuff ? 17:45:33 i thought it is network.....bleh 17:45:36 francogrex: essentially. iirc the first lisp was implemented when someone figured out how to implement eval in machine code. 17:46:10 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-230-13.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:15 is there some GUI cl frame that a) is not tied to a specific cl compiler (as CAPI), and b) does not require a commercial for-pay development environment (Visual C++) to use (commonQt)? 17:46:26 framework.. 17:46:34 yates1: commonqt doesn't need commercial compiler 17:46:40 Amyn [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has joined #lisp 17:46:40 under windows it does 17:46:45 (MSVC is actually free to use) 17:47:07 p_l: huh? 17:47:17 well i just notice it may not be possible to compile sbcl with cmucl, when the release dates of both would differ much..... 17:47:33 p_l: where? 17:47:34 yates1: download "Platform SDK" for win32 17:47:38 it contains MSVC 17:47:41 but then again, compiling sbcl with sbcl is not guaranteed too.....in that case..... 17:47:52 a Visual C++ install uses compiler installed with Platform SDK 17:47:54 not even from one to the next version..... 17:48:32 sometimes the released binary helps tho 17:48:39 if all else fails.... 17:49:00 p_l: is this requirement basically for a C compiler? if so, why can't they use gcc under cygwin? 17:49:00 yates1: MS, in general, is quite friendly to developers... but finding that out can take time 17:49:15 homie: there's always "no warranty" to keep in mind, but what do you think SBCL developers use most of the time to build their binaries? Previous version of SBCL is the safest bet when you build a new one 17:49:16 "they" being commonQt 17:49:21 yates1: GCC and MSVC have incompatible ABI 17:49:27 (in case of C++) 17:49:45 so you need to use Qt and libsmoke and libcommonqt compiled with the same compiler 17:49:55 ah 17:50:28 thank much all for the info/education/pointers. 17:50:39 lunch time... 17:50:48 akovalenko: i just say i encountered situations where it was not possible, maybe it was my own fault (my scripts interfering or so), or maybe something else....but they maybe able to compile it anyway.....they know the innards of sbcl better ..... 17:51:00 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:51:56 homie: FWIW, I tend to keep an oldish SBCL around essentially indefinitely as an SBCL build host. 17:52:00 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:52:53 nyef: is that bugfree ? 17:53:03 I would be quite surprised if an older version of sbcl could't compile a newer one. Just how old I don't know 17:53:29 pretty old (: 17:53:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:53:38 Bug-free? Almost certainly not. But it works well for now. I think I have a 1.0.23 and a 1.0.28 for various platforms. 17:53:47 I think nowadays you need something younger than 1.0.10 or so 17:53:52 gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has joined #lisp 17:53:54 (So, oldish, but not as old as the Buggiest Release Ever.) 17:53:56 homie: sometimes (in the vcs head at least) SBCL may be broken enough to fail to build next SBCL, but then rolling _back_ to current-version-minus-2 is normally the solution 17:54:19 ah now i see how they do it....lol 17:54:19 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@219.136.213.253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:55:55 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:47 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:57:03 -!- hba [~hba@189.229.191.31] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:57:20 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 17:57:43 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:58:01 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 17:58:39 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:59:22 sbcl is still faster than clozure, right? 17:59:54 its output tends to be faster, but it's slower to generate output. 17:59:58 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:00 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-156-209.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:00:11 c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 18:00:46 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:01:00 what 18:01:04 's a VOP ? 18:01:24 Fade: that would make since given it's a compiler 18:01:27 i got FOP but what is VOP ? 18:01:28 hrm... 18:01:43 vector operation ? 18:01:45 no 18:02:25 vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:02:41 -!- markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.0] 18:02:51 markskilbeck [~Mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:03:03 ah ok, got it too 18:03:08 virtual operation 18:07:07 :source /home/charlie/.byobu/profile 18:07:22 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:08:39 i don't understand rich hickey's argument about the separation of logical operations on lists and data structures. what is so complex about parens? and why is his 'seq' the silver bullet? 18:09:02 it all sounds so complicated. :S 18:10:49 I think it's down to being able to take the car and cdr of anything. 18:10:54 as a contract. 18:11:05 at least, that's what I took away from the one clojure book I read. 18:11:21 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:26 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:23 how can i send gc messages to the background ? i mean i don't want them to clobber my prompt! 18:15:20 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 18:15:28 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.154.49] has joined #lisp 18:15:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:16:40 homie: (setf (sb-ext:gc-logfile) "/some/file/elsewhere.txt") 18:16:53 ok thank you 18:16:57 ... GC messages? What? 18:17:23 I guess that homie enables verbose GC first 18:17:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125432 this sucks 18:17:44 no, it just happens after i start mcclim-listener..... 18:18:03 my prompt is clobbered, tho the listeners is not ofc 18:18:29 any suggestion for cheapest possible accommodation for ECLM that still provides warmth and cover? (and doensn't include risk of security going after you) 18:18:37 I want to count occurrences and return them as a list of list, what's a good way 18:19:11 p_l: Pitch a tent under a bridge somewhere, and have a good sleeping bag? 18:19:16 superflit [~superflit@71-33-156-209.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:40 nyef: ... might have risks of police 18:19:55 Fair point. Campground, maybe? 18:20:00 *p_l* did some security-strafing in the past 18:20:11 the only problem is that I have no tent and no sleeping bag 18:20:38 share a room with a lisper? 18:20:42 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:20:43 p_l: well, I have a sleeping bag and a small tent, but.... :) 18:21:08 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:21:26 p_l: hang out with the pimps in the red lights district 18:21:34 akovalenko: let me guess - logistics of sending it to AMS for tommorrow are incredibly complex and/or costly 18:21:35 *akovalenko* hasn't designed sleeping-bag-over-TCP yet :( 18:23:56 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 18:25:17 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-016-037.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:25:58 -!- knotpine [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:27:18 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.154.49] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 18:28:24 p_l: a Russian joke of older days comes to mind: "When there's a communism everywhere, you and me and all people would be able to own helicopters. Why own a helicopter? Imagine that you live in Irkutsk, and heard they sale sausages in Omsk. So you just fly..." 18:28:58 is that joke shorter in russian? :) 18:29:40 Fade: yep, somewhat shorter. I had to expand some almost untranslatable things :) 18:29:54 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:30:02 :D 18:30:39 I wonder if everyone will also be able to own mounted missile launchers 18:31:17 tsuru: s/mounted missile launchers/ICBMs and silos/ 18:31:57 p_l: heh was thinking more of ensuring getting on-sale sausages... but right 18:33:56 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 18:34:18 -!- xan_ [~xan@183.Red-81-32-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:38:41 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-22-54.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:42:59 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:41 ... under communism, wouldn't everybody already own the sausages in the first place? 18:44:01 this could go on for a while. 18:44:11 Yes. Yes, it could. 18:44:26 nyef: that's the point (actually, the controversy of "socialism as experienced" and "communism as promised") 18:44:51 Ahh. 18:45:38 there are some good hostels in central amsterdam 18:45:54 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BB5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:46:38 Fade: yes, most of them however don't have places for saturday night 18:50:11 try couchsurfing/hospitalityclub/globalfreeloaders 18:50:42 not easy on short notice, but you might get lucky 18:51:14 there is a existential version where after getting a bunch of extra profit the peasants an collective farm discuss what to do with it. 18:51:57 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BB5A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:12 someone suggests: "lets buy a helicopter", and everyone gets all exited like "yea lets do it,helicopter hell yea", and then one guy goes "well, wtf do we need it for?" and everyone goes "hmm yea we don't really have a use for it" 18:52:52 that repeats for several more suggestions, until the debbie-downer guy himself has a suggestion to buy a huge-ass hot air baloon.. 18:53:29 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:30 ppl ask "what are we going to do with it", and he goes on with great detail how they are going to wait until one perfect morning, setup a fire, and fill it with hot air, and then they'll let it go 18:53:45 "why?!" the audience asks, and the guy says "wtf do we need it for?" 18:54:30 russian humor is only sometimes translatable :-) 18:55:05 *eMBee* gets it 18:57:55 wakeup_ [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-88-146.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:58:36 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.109.63] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:59:01 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:00:26 Say you have a function that can signal a time-out condition. How do you write a restart that asks the user if they'd like to continue waiting (assuming that the function signaling the timeout is opaque). 19:00:54 I haven't been able to find an example of a restart that repeatedly calls the same function. 19:01:01 -!- wakeup [~wakeup@xdsl-89-0-168-202.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:40 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has joined #lisp 19:03:06 Here's my scratch code so far: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125434 19:05:40 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@HSI-KBW-109-193-252-079.hsi7.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:06:04 rme [~rme@195-3-178-181.netaffairsdsl.nl] has joined #lisp 19:06:30 austinh: (tagbody fishing (restart-case (try-again (number-not-really-needed) (go fishing))));; something like that 19:07:23 that's also possible with loop + WITH-SIMPLE-RESTART, etc. 19:07:47 dublon [~jahim_ibr@41.249.15.47] has joined #lisp 19:07:58 akovalenko: Ok, that's what I was thinking. I wasn't sure how to read in a new value and use that the second time around, though. 19:08:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:09:24 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:09:55 probably somehing like (defun repeat-with-timeout () (loop while (nth-value 1 (with-simple-restart (continue "Continue waiting") (function-that-may-invoke-restart) )))) 19:10:16 with-simple-restart returns T as its 2nd value when restart was invoked 19:11:20 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:13:21 I'm wondering how you might prompt the user for how much time they'd like to wait upon each restart. 19:13:29 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:13:52 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:08 austinh: maybe you want to interrupt/abandon reading on timeout? Then the standard won't help you too much, but something like SBCL's SB-SYS:WITH-DEADLINE or WITH-TIMEOUT will be useful.. 19:15:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-230-13.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:16:30 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-151-52.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:16:51 I'm actually just sleeping between repeated calls to sb-concurrency:receive-message-no-hang. 19:17:56 Wasn't there something about "interactive" restarts and parameters? 19:18:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:19:05 alexandria probably has something helpful 19:20:13 actually nope, just checked 19:20:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:21:08 there is some hope in sb-concurrency:receive-message: ...;; TODO: timeout argument 19:21:25 akovalenko: Yeah, I'm hoping that is one of the things Nikodemus will address. 19:22:38 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-6-14.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:38 AFAICT, deadlines work with mailboxes. 19:23:52 And it's easy to construct a deadline from a timeout. 19:24:12 I'm not familiar with deadlines. 19:24:38 -!- dublon [~jahim_ibr@41.249.15.47] has left #lisp 19:25:06 It signals if the wall clock goes past a certain time. 19:25:31 Add your timeout to the current time, set that as a deadline, and you get a signal when the deadline expires. 19:25:35 In theory, at least. 19:26:00 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:07 I was looking at exactly this in the context of CLIM event handling. 19:26:08 I'm looking at the code now. There's no reference to deadlines in the SBCL manual, I don't think. 19:27:00 I had a version that used with-timeout, but I was afraid there was a race-condition somewhere (I don't remember exactly, now). 19:27:39 Hunh. How odd. 19:27:46 Yeah, with-timeout is nasty that way. 19:27:53 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-22-54.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:17 The race condition is that it's an asynchronous interrupt, and asynchronous unwinds are always racy. 19:29:19 FWIW, I'm not seeing deadlines in my copy of the manual, either. 19:29:51 ... I think they went in before 1.0.39.22, but I could be wrong. 19:30:21 how do you guys manage the paren madness? i find myself going cross-eyed lately 19:30:44 devinus: Editors with good support for indenting lisp code. 19:30:50 especially now that my lisp code examples are getting larger 19:31:02 hrm 19:31:06 Emacs + paredit is a wonderful combination, for example. 19:31:17 well i am using emacs 19:31:21 You almost have to try to unbalance parens with paredit. 19:31:21 i should look at paredit 19:31:34 Even without paredit, Try M-( sometime. 19:31:35 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:54 devinus, you even dont need paredit. my experience is that after a certain time the parens simply vanish. 19:31:54 i love the parens. the consistent lack of syntax is a nice break from the the c/c++/python i do. 19:32:27 usually, i just get by with "show-paren-mode". 19:32:31 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:32:37 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:32:42 Most lisp programs are laid out such that you can ignore the parens for the most part and just read the indent levels. 19:33:00 i also tend to make my parens highlight to be an offset of my editor's bg colour 19:33:10 so that i see them even less 19:33:15 warning: if paredit is enabled when they vanish, and then you get to vim or plain REPL, they suddenly reappear :) 19:33:36 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 19:33:37 Hrm. Not seeing deadlines in the manual /at all/. 19:33:38 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 19:33:56 Mmm. show-paren-mode is nice. 19:33:57 (we need antifuchs's smileys to keep #lisp balanced :) 19:34:07 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:34:13 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:34:47 paul0`` [~user@200.175.60.205.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:35:25 nyef: you reminded me of mmm-mode, that can sometimes be useful too (: 19:35:38 Heh. 19:35:51 -!- paul0` [~user@200.175.60.205.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:35:53 mmm-mode looks like it'd be a pain to set up and get used to. 19:36:26 At the same time, the idea of mixing lisp-mode and auctex is nicely tempting... 19:36:27 iirc, it's integrated into some literate programming stuff 19:36:40 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-230-13.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:36:47 jdz [~jdz@host9-107-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:36:52 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-230-13.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:36:57 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:00 Even more so if the auctex preview can do reasonable things with TeX markup in the Lisp code. 19:37:52 ("Why yes, that symbol IS called $T1_{23}$, what of it?") 19:38:33 hahaha 19:39:05 $T^{1}_{23}$ (did that work? I don't remember) 19:39:25 Might have needed |delimiters|. 19:39:42 nyef: custom readtable 19:39:44 $..$ could be an infix syntax 19:39:57 Well, yes. Custom readtable is pretty much a given. 19:40:40 so (let ((s $\pi{}r^2$) ..)) could be used as code and previewed :) 19:41:03 akovalenko: http://common-lisp.net/~abridgewater/lisp-tex-test-2.png 19:41:05 akovalenko: mix it with maxima for great justice 19:41:07 or you could type unicode in. 19:42:25 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:44:09 manuel____ [~manuel_@pD9FDD840.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:27 Okay, I need to get going if I'm going to guarantee catching my train. 19:44:30 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 19:46:13 -!- manuel____ is now known as manuel_ 19:51:50 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 19:52:26 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-81.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:56:37 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:58:32 marsell [~marsell@120.22.115.77] has joined #lisp 20:01:26 waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has joined #lisp 20:04:18 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 20:04:55 lol and you called me insane for qt :grid stuff :-) 20:05:59 how does that even work? 20:05:59 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-230-13.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:24 Ouch: "You are not allowed to post to this mailing list, and your message has 20:06:24 been automatically rejected." I guess I have to pay for ECLM to post to the list. 20:07:00 o_O 20:07:21 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:07:22 my mail went through. Did you confirm signup to mailing list? 20:09:42 p_l: Oh wait  I responded using a different address than I signed up with. Indignation withdrawn. 20:11:07 easyE [yhjhvn8Xy5@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:36 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-81.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:18:41 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:47 I feel silly. The example provided in the CLHS for restart-case does exactly what I wanted. 20:24:04 I wrapped my timeout call in a loop. It exits immediately with the result on success, otherwise creates a restart-case, signals the error, and provides an interactive restart to give a new timeout value and continue waiting. 20:25:33 I think that studying the condition system over the past few days has greatly increased my understanding of Lisp and how to structure my code. 20:25:46 This is a good read: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/Condition-Handling-2001.html 20:26:12 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 20:27:55 austinh: is is very good. nikodemus also wrote a very nice practical primer about the condition hierarchy, and how to handle them 20:28:22 -!- rme [~rme@195-3-178-181.netaffairsdsl.nl] has left #lisp 20:28:28 http://random-state.net/log/3453016738.html - shorter, but I find it very handy 20:28:49 antifuchs: thanks! 20:29:24 I also enjoyed this one: http://danweinreb.org/blog/what-conditions-exceptions-are-really-about 20:30:48 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.11.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:31:17 manuel____ [~manuel_@pD9FDD840.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:48 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD840.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 20:31:48 -!- manuel____ is now known as manuel_ 20:32:57 *Xach* looks forward to chatting with dan this weekend 20:38:22 How to I get git to checkout the stable ASDF version? 20:38:29 *easyE* uses Google. 20:38:49 *maxm-* finally has such a simple thing working as scrolling wheel in the settings dialog to change opacity or z-order, and stuff changing in realtime in the chart, can't beleive it took me like a week to get here 20:40:02 google 20:40:09 fast, convenient, easy 20:42:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:42:30 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:43:28 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 20:44:50 dyelar [~dyelar@129.237.18.149] has joined #lisp 20:46:25 Google: unsafe at any speed. 20:46:52 easyE: common-lisp.net/project/asdf/ should have that information 20:47:21 antifuchs: thanks. 20:47:27 easyE: are you going to eclm11? 20:47:35 at least one person should represent viennese lispers! 20:47:36 At this point, I think I'll just wget the files manually. ;) 20:47:58 antifuchs: Been in A'dam since Oct. 19th 20:48:57 excellent! 20:49:11 *easyE* is definitely attending ECLM 2011. "Releasing ABCL 1.0." 20:49:30 How's Kalifornia? 20:49:45 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:49:54 -!- dyelar [~dyelar@129.237.18.149] has left #lisp 20:50:02 *felideon* spotted a typo or two in the ABCL draft manual 20:50:04 antifuchs: not coming? too bad. would have been a great opportunity to meet. 20:50:13 easyE: ABCL 1.0? Wai! 20:50:14 felideon: please submit 20:50:20 easyE: git clone --branch release git://common-lisp.net/projects/asdf/asdf.git 20:50:21 easyE: it's shifting! two 4-ish earthquakes yesterday (: 20:50:21 mathrick [~mathrick@90-156-22-132.internetia.net.pl] has joined #lisp 20:50:47 ehu: yeah! I'm really sad I can't come. would have been a great opportunity, indeed ): 20:50:58 ehu: I almost commented on the blog post, but didnt see a call for 'feedback' and felt shy :) 20:51:22 felideon: np. there's always #abcl. 20:51:29 ah didnt know~! 20:51:38 But I need ASDF-2.0.17.077 20:51:49 git show tags ? 20:51:53 easyE: thne clone master 20:52:13 is there a list of nick <> who wrote what for this channel btw? To help making fool of oneself when arguing with someone about package X, not realizing its the author? 20:52:36 s/making/not making 20:52:40 -!- Guest262 [~Kron@129-97-120-252.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:52:41 maxm-: haha 20:52:42 maxm-: no list 20:52:53 maxm-: ask one of the elders 20:53:03 quicklisp needs a :dramatically-aligned-with field for projects! 20:53:34 another problem is the goverment of incompetent robot elders 20:53:39 ehu: next year, I hope! 20:53:52 antifuchs: it's a deal! :-) 20:54:07 next year in vienna! 20:54:20 ! 20:54:30 I meant ASDF 2.0.17.77.022. 20:54:35 *easyE* loathes git. 20:54:52 awww 20:55:21 vienna is good for me. I can stay with family there. 20:55:32 they would like me to come by for once. 20:55:39 So, we should have another Lisp meeting in Vienna. 20:55:49 We can meet with all the semantic web folks. 20:56:05 *Neronus* votes for vienna, it 20:56:10 's an hour from here 20:56:14 or maybe two 20:56:16 whee! 20:56:30 antifuchs: You might recall that you don't live there anymore ;) 20:56:52 *Xach* has no say in the matter, was just pandering to the Austrians 20:57:03 sellout: DETAILS! 20:57:36 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:58:21 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host227.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:58:55 -!- yates1 [c05b42ba@gateway/web/freenode/ip.192.91.66.186] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:00:57 is there a way to do cross platform lightweight threads/actors? 21:01:12 cross what platform? 21:01:32 *austinh* is working on an actor implementation atm 21:01:32 Xach: SBCL/CLISP/Clozure maybe 21:01:40 it is not lightweight 21:01:55 and it is not portable 21:02:01 eek 21:02:42 devinus: why is cross platform of interest? 21:02:54 Xach: well, i'm looking for e.g. bordeaux-threads for lightweight threads 21:03:19 devinus: that's not going to happen without rewriting a CL. 21:03:21 devinus: i can think of some reasons why it might be of interest, but i'm curious about your specific reasons. 21:03:24 maybe the library even uses bordeaux-threads and maps many lw threads across a few threads 21:04:18 Xach: well, i come from erlang. mostly i'm just learning right now. i don't have a concrete reason *why* i want to do things in lisp right now :P 21:04:26 ok 21:04:38 devinus: are you thinking coroutines, or actors, or what? 21:05:29 jasom: not coroutines, i know there are already some cross platform libraries already out there for that 21:05:51 specifically actors 21:06:41 that would allow me to spawn a lot of them at once without mapping them M:N myself 21:07:12 would you want cooperative or preemptive multitasking? 21:08:21 jasom: preemptive 21:09:18 astalla [~alexkidd@217.117.239.2] has joined #lisp 21:11:22 yeah, nothing like that is coming to mind 21:12:03 you arleady know about bordeaux threads, just keep in mind that they can be particularly heavyweight depending on the underlying implementation for the particular lisp 21:12:26 yeah that's what i'm trying to avoidhrm 21:12:42 plus there aren't really the communication primitives like you have in erlang 21:12:49 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-67-89.3g.claro.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:12:50 well... 21:13:09 though you can always implement that 21:13:19 hmm, how'd I go about getting a complete flow graph of a (compiled) piece of code? I'm happy if it's specific to SBCL (or some other implementation if needed), the goal is to check if there are any paths where a DB-related function is called without being guarded by a transaction 21:13:28 maybe i can just map my own "actors" across multiple threads using bordeaux-threads 21:13:33 myself 21:14:14 mathrick: SWANK has who-calls/calls-who. 21:14:48 pkhuong: yep, that's what I was thinking about, but more sophisticated 21:14:49 devinus: CL systems aren't structured like erlang ones. 21:15:14 I spent some time trying to emulate Erlang in Lisp. The primitives were easy. I got stuck on things like gen_server. 21:15:24 if lexically scoped checking is enough, you can go very far with macros and local definitions. 21:15:40 ...and at that point it felt silly trying to do Erlang in Lisp. 21:16:02 Erlang is a great language to learn concepts from, but has some terrible implementation & syntactic decisions 21:16:09 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:16:23 austinh: I have a different idea - I want to make lisp connect as Erlang nodes 21:16:40 p_l: Didn't someone already write the protocol bindings for that? 21:16:40 We've got an internal lib we want to release that does that 21:17:14 not sure if anything in Erlang ever uses compressed terms, though. We didn't implement that, and haven't had anything send it 21:17:19 even with very large binary messages, etc 21:17:36 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has left #lisp 21:18:39 not to start a flame war 21:18:48 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187-27-67-89.3g.claro.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:18:55 but what would you guys consider the "most beautiful" lisp project? 21:19:34 in a way... Lisp Machine runtime? 21:19:38 I don't know that such a thing exists. CL is ugly, but it works (: 21:19:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.254.248] has joined #lisp 21:20:08 sicl. 21:20:09 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:20:16 CL may me ugly, but other languages are uglier :) 21:20:21 s/me/be/ 21:20:53 p_l: i'm pretty sure all the code still around today would be lisp nothing understands anymore, right? :) 21:21:00 antifuchs: i'll check it out 21:21:18 not much is there yet, but I find the whole thing delightfully meta 21:22:06 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:07 also, I am amused by the parasitic nature of the whole thing (-: 21:23:26 devinus: Zeta Lisp wouldn't be too hard to make runnable in CL, I think 21:23:59 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 21:26:05 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:26:50 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 21:27:48 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD840.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 21:30:41 is there a list of interesting papers about lisp somewhere? I never heard of "Condition Handling in the Lisp Language Family" before 21:31:07 Neronus: Here's some more by Pitman: http://www.nhplace.com/kent/Papers/index.html 21:31:07 Neronus: I suspect you could try using Google Scholar 21:31:15 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-143-197.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:27 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Quit: Meep.] 21:31:50 hmm how do I correctly define sb-alien function returning char * than needs to be freed with free? 21:32:04 sb-alien:foreign-free chokes on returned value 21:32:37 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:48 henry baker has a lot of interesting papers too 21:34:29 jacius [~jacius@c-24-13-89-230.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:35 pnq [~nick@ACA21B36.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:34:59 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:35:29 maxm-: (* char) ? 21:35:41 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:36:00 austinh, p_l thanks 21:36:08 Xach: thanks again 21:36:23 but how do I get lisp string from it? I would use cffi but my market stuff is already done with sb-alien so I'm stuck with ti 21:37:19 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-5d854922.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:20 maxm-: octets-to-string, as usual. 21:38:30 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:34 pkhuong: hmm there is sb-alien::c-string-to-string, which is not exported 21:39:47 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:39:59 for octets-to-string I need size, feels silly to reimplement strlen, or call C funtion for it 21:40:12 Don't know if we have anything public that takes a SAP. 21:40:33 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04e0ce.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:40:33 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 21:41:18 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 21:42:08 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:13 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:42:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:43:29 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-4d04d124.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:25 ah forget it, i just used cffi:foreign-string-to-lisp (alien-sap ret) 21:46:16 hello folks. what happened to http://www.cliki.net/Suggested%20Programming%20Projects ? 21:46:31 -!- devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Quit: devinus] 21:46:37 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-5d854922.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:46:37 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 21:46:38 previous revisions seem fine, but the latest one -- poof, gone. 21:46:52 Adlai: sounds like it bitrotted beyond repair 21:48:54 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:49:35 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@186.220.254.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:00 paul0``` [~user@189.26.135.61.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:53:46 antifuchs: but deleting it altogether? seems extreme. it'd make more sense to me to just prune out the already-done projects and add a notice for people to add their wishes. 21:53:51 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:54:30 Adlai: Or you could just delete all of the projects and any unfinished ones that someone still cares about will get added back in by them 21:54:33 -!- paul0`` [~user@200.175.60.205.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:56:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-221-173.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:38 -!- jdz [~jdz@host9-107-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:02:21 H4ns [3ec30258@gateway/web/freenode/ip.62.195.2.88] has joined #lisp 22:06:42 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:08:43 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:08:55 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 22:09:25 blah. it's pretty easy and nice to get the absolute path of a file from an asdf component, but there doesn't seem to be a good way to get the CFFI groveller to (include ..) it 22:09:29 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:09:41 -!- paul0``` [~user@189.26.135.61.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:42 -!- jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:42 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:42 -!- mogs [~mogs@119.64.49.14] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:42 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:42 -!- alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@GGGMKCCCXXXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp3741.bb.online.no] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- klutometis [klutometis@pdpc/supporter/professional/klutometis] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:09:43 -!- njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:10:11 i thought this was working, apparently not 22:10:23 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:10:37 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:11:04 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:11:19 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21B36.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:11:23 paul0``` [~user@189.26.135.61.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 mogs [~mogs@119.64.49.14] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 peterhil [~peterhil@GGGMKCCCXXXIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 Xof [~crhodes@158.223.51.79] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 jsnell [~jsnell@ash.snellman.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp3741.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 klutometis [klutometis@pdpc/supporter/professional/klutometis] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 Axioplase_ [~Axioplase@fortigate.kb.ecei.tohoku.ac.jp] has joined #lisp 22:11:23 njan [~james@freenode/staff/njan] has joined #lisp 22:11:24 -!- incandenza [jkBwmsqmwx@69.164.197.143] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:11:25 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 22:11:28 OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has joined #lisp 22:11:37 Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 22:11:38 -!- shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 22:11:44 shachaf [~shachaf@204.109.63.130] has joined #lisp 22:12:05 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:12:37 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 22:13:01 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:14:23 -!- OliverUv_ [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:14:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:43 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:17:28 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:17:34 Kron [~Kron@69.166.23.18] has joined #lisp 22:18:00 -!- Kron is now known as Guest84516 22:25:21 acieroid` [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has joined #lisp 22:25:23 -!- acieroid [~acieroid@wtf.awesom.eu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:27:25 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:31:51 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04d124.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:32:50 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host227.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 22:35:58 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:37:14 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:40 fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-174-42.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:41:43 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:42:04 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:04 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:42:04 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 22:44:57 -!- Athas` [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:49 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:47:31 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:16 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:51:36 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-156-209.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:44 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.60] has joined #lisp 22:54:23 nyef [~nyef@pool-70-109-155-234.cncdnh.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:32 Hello again all. 22:55:57 maxm-: You asked about how lisp-tex-test-2 works? 22:56:14 nyef: yea 22:56:31 The short answer is that I lack the emacs-fu to make it work. 22:56:46 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:56:47 i meant more of wtf it is, is it documentation tool? or code generator? 22:57:40 realitygrill [~realitygr@67-194-81-70.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 22:57:51 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host227.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:58:20 But that the plan was to use a $ reader-macro on the lisp side to parse LaTeX math markup into something that could either be straight-up source code (like a let binding spec) or be transformed by a macro (such as the argument to transformation-values). 23:00:00 ah 23:00:11 So, it's not so much a code generator as a set of macros and reader macros on the lisp side which the emacs side knows how to present prettily. 23:00:43 And it's all with auctex style preview, so it's generally pretty, but you can move your cursor into it and see the TeX guts. 23:00:48 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 23:00:57 *maxm-* does not know latex, so I can't comment on if its syntax is suitable as a programming construct 23:01:49 It is and it isn't. It'd probably be a restricted subset of LaTeX, but sufficient that the tools would work. 23:01:50 its something mathematica/etc guys done right? 23:02:04 since wolfram alpha displays kind of simularly 23:02:12 I have no idea, actually. 23:02:43 I was looking at literate programming in lisp at the time I put this test together, particularly clweb. 23:02:51 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@190.244.27.236] has joined #lisp 23:02:52 clweb is kindof neat, but doesn't do this sort of thing. 23:04:17 And now, a language lawyering question: What should (let ((a nil) (b '(42))) (push 57 (values a b)) (values a b)) do when evaluated? 23:04:38 -!- dnjaramba [~dnjaramba@41.72.193.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:04:52 SBCL blows up, but I'm fairly certain that it shouldn't. 23:04:53 nyef: I wasn't aware values was setf-able. 23:05:09 nyef: expansion-time error seems reasonable. 23:05:36 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:05:45 Ralith: CLHS 5.1.2.3. Now you know. 23:05:51 pkhuong: How so? 23:05:52 neat 23:05:52 I assume it expends to multiple-value-setq, so probably 57 nil 23:06:21 maxm-: It's specified to expand to something a touch more complex than just an m-v-setq. 23:07:39 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 23:07:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 23:07:52 -!- petekaz [~user@c-71-235-173-87.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:15 mrSpec: \o/ :D 23:08:47 nyef: the spec for PUSH seems to assume a single value. 23:08:59 -!- astalla [~alexkidd@217.117.239.2] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 23:09:10 Now, (values '(57) nil) does seem reasonable to me, based on the use of "value" as "primary value" (glossary, sense 1b). 23:09:13 But 5.1.2.3 does suggest defaulting to nil. 23:09:18 Hello from NL ;-) 23:09:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:11:52 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:11:56 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:11:57 hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:09 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:14:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:15:27 ISF [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has joined #lisp 23:16:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:17:34 Is it unusual to export the identifier associated with a restart? 23:17:44 -!- paul0``` [~user@189.26.135.61.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:17:54 It's not unusual... when you use restarts in the first place. 23:18:08 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:11 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 23:18:18 Ok, I don't think I've come across that in the wild. 23:18:27 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-71.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:19:08 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:19:59 You have: Consider the ABORT restart. 23:20:04 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.60] has quit [Quit: superflit] 23:20:17 Yeah, that's what made me think that it might be ok. 23:20:48 The real question is, is the restart part of the "public protocol" for your code, or is it meant to be purely internal? 23:22:08 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:36 Yes, public. I think users should be able to handle CONTINUE-WAITING for the functions that timeout. 23:23:15 Then export the symbol. Consider the use of FIND-RESTART. 23:24:23 Done and done. This is neat. 23:25:58 Now, does it make sense to CONTINUE-WAITING, or can the user "just" unwind and then call your function again? 23:26:14 (Ran into that one with a RETRY restart.) 23:27:22 I'm not sure I follow. They can do either, I suppose. 23:28:23 If they are only calling this low-level function. If they are calling a function that depends on it, then they'll be screwed if they don't wait. 23:28:39 Maybe I can clean that up. 23:29:25 Shouldn't the CONTINUE-WAITING restart be offered by the higher-level function, then? Or even have it just call the low-level function again without involving the whole restart thing? 23:31:09 I put the restart in the loop that sleeps and eventually gives up. 23:31:34 I thought that was the simplest solution, since a couple functions call that one and I didn't want to repeat all the restart code. 23:31:46 And this low-level function is useful by itself. 23:32:27 ... (defmacro with-continue-waiting-restart () ...) ? 23:32:38 Yeah, I considered that. 23:32:49 Err... s/()/(options &body body)/ 23:33:17 (Then declare (type null options), just to be on the "safe" side.) 23:33:21 The fact is, that higher level code is in another package. I thought it would be more robust to put the restarts here, where any client code could use them. 23:35:11 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:46 nyef: Here's the code, if you have any interest in looking at it: https://github.com/austinhaas/mailbox-plus/blob/master/mailbox-plus.lisp 23:36:06 I value your input. 23:36:20 and criticism 23:36:34 *austinh* has to run out to dinner 23:41:36 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.156.9] has joined #lisp 23:43:16 -!- anvandare_ [~anvandare@dD5770850.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:46:37 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:46:46 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-22-54.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:48:55 austinh: Okay, we'll start with RECEIVE-MESSAGE and RECEIVE-MESSAGE-IF not being threadsafe for multiple readers. 23:49:13 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:07 austinh: Your default timeout should be to wait indefinitely, based on the principle of least surprise. 23:50:34 (If I see an optional timeout argument, I'm going to assume that the default is indefinite, and that if I want a timeout I have to specify one.) 23:52:06 austinh: And I hope you didn't export RECEIVE-MESSAGE-WITH-TIMEOUT, as it's deceptively-similarly-named when compared with RECEIVE-MESSAGE and RECEIVE-MESSAGE-IF, but takes a different sort of mailbox object. 23:54:31 And I find the :interactive argument for the one restart to be worrisome, but I don't know how what a better option would be offhand. 23:56:56 You're specifically hoping for an interface that doesn't require a polling interval (sleep interval), so you probably shouldn't expose the polling interval so pervasively. Just use the special, not the function parameters. 23:57:34 I think those are the big things. 23:58:06 Deadlines, while clearly the right thing to use for this situation, don't appear to be documented, and are only exposed via a "private" SBCL package. 23:58:28 Which makes them a bit of a "use at your own risk" kind of thing. 23:58:45 (push 57 (values a b)) (values a b)) --> http://paste.lisp.org/display/125436 23:59:12 yy [~daeyun@unaffiliated/yy] has joined #lisp 23:59:18 -!- yy [~daeyun@unaffiliated/yy] has left #lisp 23:59:36 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]