00:00:57 I'll learn about unix terminal i/o another day. 00:04:36 -!- kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-101-53.w90-13.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:04:46 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has joined #lisp 00:05:47 -!- k9quaint-wk [~k9quaint-@64.197.122.130] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:06:37 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: kwertii] 00:07:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-141.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:09:42 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.233.133] has joined #lisp 00:11:45 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:15:06 drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has joined #lisp 00:16:13 -!- elliottcable is now known as baryogenesis 00:17:12 -!- rpg [~rpg@206.117.31.188] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:17:35 hiro3 [~hiro@softbank221093184002.bbtec.net] has joined #lisp 00:18:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-103-231.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:19:40 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.234.78] has joined #lisp 00:19:47 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-22.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:20:00 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-69-201-186-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:20:39 Farzad [~root@46.225.122.248] has joined #lisp 00:21:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.233.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:21:38 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 00:24:46 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:47 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.234.191] has joined #lisp 00:25:03 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 00:26:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.234.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:26:00 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 00:27:27 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 00:29:45 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:35:32 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:46 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:38:11 kephas [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-88-18.w81-51.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:43:56 Farzad_ [~root@46.225.97.164] has joined #lisp 00:45:41 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 00:46:00 -!- Farzad [~root@46.225.122.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:46:43 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:48:01 -!- ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Quit: quit] 00:50:10 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.220.171] has joined #lisp 00:52:19 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.229.172] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.234.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:53:12 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 00:56:03 msponge [~msponge@18.111.115.19] has joined #lisp 00:58:05 ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 01:06:44 Kron [~Kron@69.166.23.18] has joined #lisp 01:07:09 -!- Kron is now known as Guest55446 01:10:07 leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has joined #lisp 01:10:40 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 01:11:05 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.111.115.19] has quit [Quit: msponge] 01:12:38 -!- Farzad_ [~root@46.225.97.164] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15:07 rawrTrain [~resu@97.72.154.166] has joined #lisp 01:20:58 billstcalir [~billstcla@p-69-195-48-36.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:13 -!- rawrTrain [~resu@97.72.154.166] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:24:21 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:25:01 -!- baryogenesis is now known as elliottcable 01:27:12 phzbOx [~pheze@68.67.68.168] has joined #lisp 01:27:48 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:28:31 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:28:49 Hi. Say I have a list of string; Is there a way to loop over it and have both the sring and and an index? I.e. (mapc (lambda (index str) (..) (with-index '("foo" "bar"))) ? Thank you 01:31:04 loop has syntax for that I think 01:31:15 npascut1 [~nick@dip-14-37.coloradocollege.edu] has joined #lisp 01:31:43 (loop for i from 0 and string in list do ...) 01:32:09 oh cool 01:32:27 Or, to use your example, (loop for index from 0 and str in '("foo" "bar") do ...) 01:33:34 Lots of people don't like loop I've heard but it's pretty fun and surprisingly useful in some cases 01:34:25 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:49 Hey all, would anyone be willing to help me troubleshoot a (potentially noob-y) problem? 01:35:41 triliyn: A great thanks, my code surprinsingly worked at the first run 01:35:55 hehe, awesome 01:36:12 npascut1: Sure, I'll see if I can help 01:37:45 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:38:33 triliyn: I was trying things like: (enumerate '("a" "b")) a-la python; or (range 1 10) but this doesn't seems to exist 01:38:38 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:38:44 hehe 01:38:52 Python's enumerate is pretty cool :3 01:39:54 You rarely need to work with indices, but when you do it's a life saver :p 01:41:51 -!- leo2007 [~leo@119.255.41.67] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.90.1] 01:44:52 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.194.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:47:27 -!- npascut1 [~nick@dip-14-37.coloradocollege.edu] has left #lisp 01:57:57 -!- easyE [HQYJ64xpdW@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:59:35 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:06:08 Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has joined #lisp 02:09:12 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:57 dougt2008 [~vtecinc@99-71-88-8.lightspeed.wkgnil.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:09 -!- dougt2008 [~vtecinc@99-71-88-8.lightspeed.wkgnil.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:23:12 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@204.15.3.100] 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[~user@189.26.138.159.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:30:18 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wvbjadqdphhkydtb] has joined #lisp 05:30:23 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-wvbjadqdphhkydtb] has quit [Changing host] 05:30:23 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:31:08 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.20.189] has joined #lisp 05:39:19 reasonpun [~textual@60.247.47.169] has joined #lisp 05:39:20 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:39:53 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 05:41:30 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Client Quit] 05:43:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:47:00 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 05:50:03 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-101-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:52 easyE [chguRsI1Jb@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 05:52:22 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 05:54:58 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:56:31 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:57:56 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:58:08 agravier [~agravier@155.69.200.255] has joined #lisp 05:58:22 dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 05:58:28 Hello 05:58:35 -!- turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:59:11 -!- reasonpun [~textual@60.247.47.169] has quit [] 05:59:23 With CLisp, (documentation 'mapcar 'function) returns NIL: is it as expected? 06:00:51 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:01:31 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.215] has joined #lisp 06:01:52 agravier: Implementations don't have to hold onto or have any documentation strings. Try the CLHS? 06:01:54 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 06:02:21 Bike: Thanks, well I ask this because I use AutoComplete for Slime, and the documentation pops up as "Not documented" 06:02:44 Bike: I don't think that CLHS can be used for those 06:03:03 Bike: Can it? 06:04:18 agravier: Dunno, sorry. There's C-c C-d h for the hyperspec, though. 06:05:20 Bike: I know yeah, thanks. I guess I'll stick to that one 06:07:38 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:09:10 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.220.171] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:09:19 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:09:32 good morning 06:10:13 -!- bigjust [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:10:21 bigjust [~bigjust@justin.caratzas.org] has joined #lisp 06:10:28 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.44] has joined #lisp 06:10:45 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:10:59 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.220.171] has joined #lisp 06:11:45 wishbone_ [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 06:11:49 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:12:00 kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-141-101-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 06:12:01 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 06:12:54 -!- triliyn [~desmond@76-206-56-151.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:13:17 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:14:44 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:19 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 06:18:55 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 06:19:23 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:20:40 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:21:47 I googled: "lisp threads throw catch" and hit a wealth of good discussions 06:22:03 *easyE* is getting ready for ECLM2011 keysigning without a printer. 06:22:35 I especially enjoyed reading D. Weinreb's essay about conditions: http://danweinreb.org/blog/what-conditions-exceptions-are-really-about 06:24:21 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:24:28 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:24:55 easyE: Is a printer important? 06:25:11 *Guthur* has never even heard of key signing parties before 06:26:14 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:27:32 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-20.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:27:33 lain_ [~lain@g225001234.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 06:27:51 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.13.214] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 06:27:57 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.228.20.189] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:28:19 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:59 -!- kennyd_ is now known as kennyd 06:31:53 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:59 -!- lain_ [~lain@g225001234.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:38:24 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:39:12 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-22.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:39:25 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:40:37 Amyn [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has joined #lisp 06:41:43 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-70-189.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:42:12 turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 06:42:15 austinh: interesting read, does "threads" in context of your statement mean process threads or forum/blog threads? 06:42:24 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 06:43:59 Guthur: That's funny. I was seeking info on concurrency. 06:48:39 -!- turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:50:24 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-20.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:51:25 -!- Amyn [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:53:14 frodef [~frode@shevek.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 06:54:37 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:55:21 turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:40 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:02:41 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:09:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:39 H4ns [5ddb91f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.145.240] has joined #lisp 07:13:23 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:13:23 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 07:18:54 nostoi [~nostoi@151.Red-79-156-53.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:16 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:37 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 07:25:01 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:26:39 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:27:08 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:28:10 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 07:28:25 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-15-17.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:28:25 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-15-17.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:28:25 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:28:54 good morning everyone 07:29:40 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:32:11 I love these little glimpses into the history of the development of CL: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.lisp/msg/782905ecfb0710a2 07:32:16 -!- turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:35:33 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:37:17 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 07:41:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:42:44 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:46:25 peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 07:46:29 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-gqphltpuicrdheug] has joined #lisp 07:50:46 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:52:07 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:57:49 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:59:15 turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 07:59:15 -!- turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:59:44 turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 08:00:37 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.118.251] has joined #lisp 08:00:52 lain_ [~lain@p5795B18E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:02:55 wolfpython [~walter@221.226.210.159] has joined #lisp 08:03:52 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tctqjokxixmlrrpt] has joined #lisp 08:04:15 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-162-128.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:25 -!- agravier [~agravier@155.69.200.255] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:05:53 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:11:13 Amyn [~abennama@62.23.212.45] has joined #lisp 08:12:23 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:15:12 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.79.135] has joined #lisp 08:19:37 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 08:20:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:23:53 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host227.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 08:26:12 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@151.Red-79-156-53.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:26:17 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:30:24 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.85] has joined #lisp 08:36:20 incandenza [jkBwmsqmwx@69.164.197.143] has joined #lisp 08:39:31 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 08:43:36 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45:29 we 08:45:31 una domanda stupida 08:45:38 ops sorry 08:48:36 aiju [~aiju@unaffiliated/aiju] has joined #lisp 08:48:52 how do i load a file from the directory the current file is in? (not the working directory) 08:52:02 hi lain_ 08:52:14 gi fe[nl]ix 08:52:48 -!- Brendan_T [~brendan@46.105.251.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:53:10 aiju: see *load-pathname*, *load-truename*, make-pathname (or merge-pathnames) 08:53:31 or what is the usual way to split a lisp program into several files? 08:53:36 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:53:45 aiju: you use ASDF 08:54:26 hi Blkt 08:56:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:58:21 -!- CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 09:04:21 CrazyEddy [~delighted@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 09:04:21 common lisp pathname objects seem to be designed for openvms 09:05:14 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-sgefapqqlemwbpkh] has joined #lisp 09:05:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:06:47 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 09:07:24 hi Blkt, lain_ :) 09:13:51 -!- wolfpython [~walter@221.226.210.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:15:54 algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-4-223.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:23 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:17:45 -!- EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host227.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:24:37 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:25:26 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 09:27:50 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-orhcjalifzwucpzy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:28:23 Rukowen [~Rukowen@115.78.225.25] has joined #lisp 09:30:03 aiju do you have quicklisp? 09:30:58 i don't think so 09:31:36 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:32:03 ok. thought if you did quickproject:make-project would be an easy way to get started with asdf system 09:32:32 i don't really want any fancy magic OO project management system 09:32:49 now i just issue the appropriate loads with merged pathnames 09:34:08 aiju: using asdf does not require a lot of sophistication 09:35:52 aiju: read this: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html 09:37:37 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:38:25 heh, @planet_lisp has 1024 followers today 09:39:32 ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:39:40 -!- algal [~anonymous@host-92-26-4-223.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: algal] 09:40:42 nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has joined #lisp 09:41:59 that's still more code than what i have now, lol 09:42:20 aiju: lol 09:42:27 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:43:10 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:33 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:51:22 -!- H4ns [5ddb91f0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.145.240] has quit [Quit: lol] 09:53:24 -!- mikecsh [~mikecsh@113.28.74.33] has quit [Quit: mikecsh] 09:53:54 wolfpython [~walter@180.111.141.141] has joined #lisp 09:54:08 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 10:05:20 i can see the use of quickproject and asdf for handling dependencies. but what is the minimum needed for a program that has no dependencies? (but is large enough to need splitting over multiple files/directories? 10:07:43 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.118.251] has joined #lisp 10:08:46 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:10:44 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:10:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.118.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:11:20 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 10:11:53 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.118.251] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:12:09 benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f208:7450:a73f:fc06:4ee0] has joined #lisp 10:12:24 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.23] has joined #lisp 10:13:33 asdf handles dependencies, just google asdf manual 10:13:33 Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 10:13:43 minimum is asdf.lisp, if you have SBCL its already included 10:15:00 i mean what if i don't have dependencies, only my own code? 10:15:27 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:15:40 then don't put the (depends-on) property in the system definition 10:16:14 -!- lain_ [~lain@p5795B18E.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 10:16:21 also there is a :serial t property which makes every file listed to depend on all previous ones, which allows you to list sources in the order they should be compiled without doing (depends-on) for each file 10:16:41 *eMBee* saw that 10:17:23 so basically i just list all my own files as dependencies? 10:17:30 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.73.55.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:17:46 so minimum will be (asdf:defsystem :mysystem :components ((:file "one") (:file "two"))) for system consisting of "one.lisp" and "two.lisp" 10:18:36 it depends on which level, each file could have its own dependencies.. asdf is recursive, system itself is a component, each file is a component, and each component could have dependencies 10:18:44 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f208:7450:a73f:fc06:4ee0] has quit [Quit: benkard] 10:19:01 for the system, the dependencies are usually other systems, and the action is to have them loaded before your system is loaded/compiled 10:19:15 for files the dependencies are other files or system that need to be compiled/loaded before the file 10:19:15 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:16 akovalenko [~anton@95.73.107.239] has joined #lisp 10:19:21 12:13 < maxm-> asdf handles dependencies, just google asdf manual 10:19:25 i don't have dependencies 10:19:41 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:19:53 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 10:19:54 so i put an ASDF file in each directory for example, listing all files and sub directories there, thereby treating each subdirectory as its own subprohect? 10:20:00 project 10:20:34 eMBee: you can do that, or you can use asdf (:module), which recursively defines a sub-system... 10:21:01 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:21:02 aiju: if i understand maxm- correctly, then when you split your code intp multiple files, then your files depend on each other, so you do have dependencies 10:21:48 so if you have directories lib1 lib2 and then files main.lisp, you can do (defsystem :mysystem :components ((module "lib1" :components (...list of files in lib1 )) (:file "main"))) 10:22:17 eMBee: so i have circular dependencies? that's awesome! 10:22:35 well, that depends on how you write your code 10:22:44 and how you split the files :-) 10:22:54 don't think circular ones will work, never tried it 10:23:13 i think most files refer to each other 10:23:26 parse.lisp calls into expr.lisp which calls back into parse.lisp 10:23:34 yea thats why most people use :serial t 10:23:41 H4ns [4ffc93ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.147.239] has joined #lisp 10:24:08 I started splitting them up like this: generics and classes in file.lisp, and rest in file-impl.lisp, making file-impl.lisp depend on file.lisp, and rest of the files in the system depend only on file.lisp 10:24:28 i don't have generics or classes lol 10:24:32 you can use (module) even for files in the same directory, to logically group dependencies togother 10:24:56 ie (:module :helpers :pathname "" (:components ((:file "one") (:file "two")))) 10:25:37 will create a module in the same directory as the .asd file (the :pathname property makes it so)... By default its under subdirectory same as module name 10:25:57 lol 10:26:21 so you can have (:module :classes-and-macros) and then (:module :rest :depends-on (:classes-and-macros)) 10:26:35 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:26:40 H4ns: why lol? 10:27:01 maxm-: seems like it is appropriate to use that word from time to time, no? lol 10:27:27 maxm-: not offense intended. i think that aiju is looking for something simpler. lol 10:27:45 i already found a solution 10:27:54 H4ns: I missed the comment from aiju which I assume you were responding too, and it did not made sense in that context, doh 10:28:17 maxm-: don't worry. sorry for the interruption. 10:28:20 http://pastie.org/2728999 10:28:51 aiju: its ok, but you are basically re-inventing asdf 10:28:55 aiju: that looks pretty bad 10:28:58 it's two lines man 10:32:00 H4ns: how so? 10:32:06 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: benkard] 10:32:37 -!- anonus is now known as litte-green 10:32:53 -!- wolfpython [~walter@180.111.141.141] has quit [Quit: ] 10:33:07 lain_ [~lain@p5795B18E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:33:50 aiju: system construction, parametrization and running all in one file. bad indentation. global variables declared without earmuffs. if used where when would be better. 10:34:20 aiju: i take it that you've not read many lisp programs or lisp books yet? you should. 10:34:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 10:35:34 haha 10:36:37 lol? 10:37:29 so i should split that file in three files? 10:37:40 and the if bit is just plain nitpicking 10:38:37 aiju: it is not. i referred you to xach's blog post already, so it is all in there. 10:38:43 -!- prip [~foo@host103-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:38:53 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:40:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:44:45 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.23] has joined #lisp 10:44:46 prip [~foo@host103-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:44:56 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:45:06 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.23] has joined #lisp 10:47:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.23] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:47:21 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.112.23] has quit [Client Quit] 10:47:27 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.23] has joined #lisp 10:48:35 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-162-128.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:49:50 -!- Rukowen [~Rukowen@115.78.225.25] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:51:43 H4ns: from the hyperspec, (when test {form}+) == (if test (progn {form}+) nil) 10:52:09 unless i'm reading that incorrectly, it would seem the two forms are functionally identical. why is one better than the other? 10:52:47 dsp_: right. it is equivalent in terms of functionality, not in terms of readability. it is still better to use "when" instead of "if" when there is no else clause so that the reader knows that there is none. 10:53:12 dsp_: "the reader" being the human who tries to read and understand the program. 10:53:57 in this particular case, there would be absolutely no ambiguity. i understand the underlying point however. 10:54:11 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 10:54:16 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 10:54:21 (if anyone would misread that, then they probably shouldn't bother) 10:54:22 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.101] has joined #lisp 10:54:29 dsp_: it is not about ambiguity, it is about readability. 10:54:42 -!- prip [~foo@host103-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:54:59 yeah. i don't think "if , " is unreadable 10:55:09 it's used in natural language all the time 10:55:17 i think it's more a choice of personal taste 10:56:01 i only asked specifically as i wasn't sure whether the forms really *were* identical, but yeah seems they are. alas 10:56:06 right. everybody is free to program the way they want. 10:56:15 prip [~foo@host103-128-dynamic.36-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:56:26 i more meant that readability is in the eye of the beholder 10:57:11 the first version of that program had a lot of (if condition (progn lol 10:57:13 dsp_: well, under that argument, one could say that using cond all over would be even more readable, because that'd cover all cases of conditionals. 10:57:22 lol? 10:57:54 i don't follow, but okay 10:58:06 i hadn't written common lisp in some time 10:58:13 and totally forgot there were when and unless 10:59:56 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:01:50 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:02:36 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 11:03:39 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:04:21 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:05:18 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:31 -!- X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:06:37 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:03 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest22126 11:07:09 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 11:07:47 -!- waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:08:12 PissedNumlock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 11:08:29 -!- PissedNu1lock [~resteven@igwe32.vub.ac.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:08:40 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:39 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:13:59 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:15:19 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-135-201-188.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:17:31 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has joined #lisp 11:25:01 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:27:34 orclev [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:28:13 MrMc [~user@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 11:28:53 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:33:10 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:35:12 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:37:50 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-151-52.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:29 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:42:07 hmm why (map nil (compose #'funcall #'updater-of) (control-of obj)) gives me a warning "unable to optimize fdefinition at runtime" 11:42:41 manually rolling two nested maps does not give it, and using any other function instead of apply or funcall also does not give it 11:43:12 maxm-: that happens when type inference is enable to prove that an argument for funcall is a function (and not a symbol) 11:43:33 but how can #'funcall be not a function? 11:43:38 maxm-: what's the point of composing funcall with anything? map nil #'funcall.. 11:43:50 ..that is, map nil #'updater-of 11:44:09 oh sorry, I see 11:44:56 maxm-: the compiler can't prove that updater-of *returns a function* 11:45:13 ah 11:45:15 dipa2 [~wircer@pool-71-110-127-17.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:48 doh yea now its obvious, /me was confused 11:49:23 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:50:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:51:30 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:55:37 -!- dipa2 [~wircer@pool-71-110-127-17.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net] has left #lisp 11:55:40 is there a way to make slime print the last error caught to the repl? by default, the error is only shown in the debugger and the error description is lost once the debugger is exited. 11:57:51 H4ns: C then M-RET, I suppose... 11:58:18 H4ns: you want slime to save the error instance ? 11:58:21 -!- aiju [~aiju@unaffiliated/aiju] has left #lisp 11:58:29 Xach: that puts a presentation of the condition into the repl buffer 11:58:53 fe[nl]ix: no, i want the error be printed to the repl in the same manner that is used in the debugger. 11:59:19 H4ns: ok, then add (princ *) :) 11:59:29 Xach: "lol" 11:59:37 H4ns: how recent is your slime ? 11:59:44 fe[nl]ix: from quicklisp 11:59:50 (fairly recent) 12:00:01 the one I have prints «; Evaluation aborted on #.» when I eval (error "foo") 12:00:40 fe[nl]ix: that is what i see, too. but i need the aesthetic printout (i.e. princ) 12:01:12 aah 12:02:15 mcsontos_ [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-iiacognpibgpnrwo] has joined #lisp 12:02:15 -!- mcsontos_ [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-iiacognpibgpnrwo] has quit [Client Quit] 12:02:32 *maxm-* had finished the edit protocol.. I can now do Apply/Cancel/Reset/Defaults buttons, and the underlaying model CLOS object is automatically backup up / restored etc correctly 12:02:38 *H4ns* is looking at slime-repl-eval-string 12:03:07 also there are two editing modes, direct editing (updates original, keeps backup) and indirect (updates copy, keeps original, and copies on Apply/Ok) 12:03:14 kind of symmetric 12:04:19 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 12:04:33 this shit is super-cool man, you can actually write useful / cool stuff with it 12:06:48 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:32 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:50 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:05 benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 12:11:30 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has joined #lisp 12:15:35 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:19:35 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 12:21:25 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:55 -!- MrMc [~user@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:28:38 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:34:55 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:40:00 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:50:00 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:53:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: work?] 12:53:26 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has joined #lisp 13:01:10 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 13:02:35 EmmanuelOga [~emmanuel@host227.190-31-137.telecom.net.ar] has joined #lisp 13:05:19 -!- turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:05:41 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:07:09 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 13:07:27 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:08:17 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:09:06 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has joined #lisp 13:09:07 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:10:53 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:11:17 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:39 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-14.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:12:42 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:12:59 alexgordon [~alexgordo@host-2-97-43-32.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:06 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:22:05 -!- fmu____ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lglspzzyhtyczvrn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:22:05 -!- whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-emvpxaolxvhgpoyp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:23:12 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:28:13 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:28:19 G'morning all. 13:29:12 CaZe_ [~yrt@unaffiliated/y354c] has joined #lisp 13:29:18 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:29:43 -!- CaZe [~yrt@unaffiliated/y354c] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:29:46 -!- CaZe_ is now known as CaZe 13:30:03 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 13:36:03 hi nyef 13:36:20 nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has joined #lisp 13:36:23 hi 13:36:35 whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-xjeulhfkgthmaijq] has joined #lisp 13:36:58 why does slimv bind evaluation to ,d??? and i keep wondering why my input is gone when evaluation doesn't work 13:37:00 fe[nl]ix: I have a question for you in #sbcl. Check your scrollback. 13:37:20 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:34 manuel___ [~manuel_@pD9FDF4D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:22 wolfpython [~wolf@180.110.178.4] has joined #lisp 13:42:41 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-tctqjokxixmlrrpt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:44:28 X-Scale` [email@89.180.129.24] has joined #lisp 13:44:50 lol CNN military expert is "general spider marks" 13:44:59 I swear these guys make it up 13:45:11 nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has joined #lisp 13:45:18 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:45:49 -!- Guest22126 [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:46:57 urandom__ [~user@p548A21E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:08 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:50:37 LarryB [~LarryB@c-76-104-36-165.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:19 nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:52:49 -!- redline6561_nop is now known as redline6561 13:53:51 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 13:55:06 what happens really when something like this is done: (setf list-1 (sort list-1 #'<))? The list-1 is destroyed or preserved? 13:55:16 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-29-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:27 -!- LarryB [~LarryB@c-76-104-36-165.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:55:45 francogrex: list-1 is bound to a sorted version of the original value of list-1. 13:55:49 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:10 francogrex: if you have another way to reference the original value of list-1, the cdr chain might be the same or it might be different. 13:56:24 Some time ago, someone told me they had bought a paperback version of PCL and sent me an image to prove it. Is that person still around? 13:56:29 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 13:56:30 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:56:35 Or anyone else who's ever held a paperback version of PCL in their hands. 13:56:57 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 13:57:20 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:20 Xach: is it then considered a bad way of doing it (the aim is only to sort the list and retrieve the results), should it be into another new variable? 13:59:39 francogrex: You could use another variable if you wished, so long as you remember that the original variable is "destroyed". 13:59:50 francogrex: it depends on the situation. it has to do with ownership and responsibility. 13:59:57 minion: logs 14:00:03 gigamonkey: No minion. 14:00:07 gigamonkey: ccl.clozure.com/irc-logs/ has some 14:00:21 *Xach* looks around for a dutch person for private ECLM discussion 14:01:03 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:01:05 ok 14:01:28 -!- H4ns [4ffc93ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.147.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 14:03:40 fmu____ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ssquwhdcsyzckbix] has joined #lisp 14:04:40 I'm not dutch, Xach, but all us Eurpeens are alike 14:05:01 LarryB [~LarryB@c-76-104-36-165.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:06:05 -!- LarryB [~LarryB@c-76-104-36-165.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:06:20 *flip214* thinks he wants bed + breakfast 14:06:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.112.23] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:07:07 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.97] has joined #lisp 14:07:17 LarryB [~LarryB@c-76-104-36-165.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:08:18 -!- LarryB [~LarryB@c-76-104-36-165.hsd1.va.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:08:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:15 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:12:21 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has joined #lisp 14:16:31 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 14:16:34 knottypines [~cmsfluff@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:08 -!- knottypines [~cmsfluff@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:18:27 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-28-16.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:19:47 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:21:16 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:21:54 anyone have any opinions on slimv vs limp vs nekthuth? 14:22:15 knottypines [~cmsfluff@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:36 eMBee: most people here use emacs. i don't know if there is a good place for talking to the vim+lisp nerds. 14:22:38 -!- benkard [~benkard@002608dc9535.dfn.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: benkard] 14:22:55 I think slimv has the lest offensive name. 14:23:00 least, rather. 14:23:13 hehe 14:23:55 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:23:56 i don't know nekthuth seems to go well with hunchentoot 14:23:58 eMBee: use slimv, that's actively developed 14:24:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:24:42 eMBee: I'm a slimv user, so if there are any questions you're welcome 14:24:43 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:24:53 although you need to hurry, or wait until tomorrow 14:24:58 i am using slimv now, but i am irritated that the keybindings are all done with ,d, now i am looking for a way to change that 14:25:11 thanks :-) 14:25:29 let g:slimv_keybindings = 2 14:25:41 or use 0 and define your own 14:25:52 btw, do you know the tutorials? 14:25:54 ah, i found reference to that, but haven't gotten to the point where it is explained. 14:26:05 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has joined #lisp 14:26:23 i know the tutorial by the author 14:26:40 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-189.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:26:46 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-189.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:27:00 tamás is very responsive, if you find bugs or have patches 14:27:17 i have slimv working, i am only stumbling over the d, because if i am in the wrong place or the , doesn't take foe some reason d turns into delete 14:27:40 until now i kept wondering why i was losing lines from my code 14:28:07 i'll try the g:slimv_keybindings = 2 then, thanks 14:29:23 that uses ,dX for some values for X, too ... but I don't have the deletion problem anymore, perhaps I just got used to slimv 14:29:29 ah, no 2 is no good, the 2-key bindings all start with d 14:29:51 i actually only need to change ,d into something else, then i'll be ok 14:30:13 is your perhaps set to ",d"? 14:30:35 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:42 :let mapleader 14:30:47 is "," for me 14:31:02 my keybindings are 3 characters, eg. ",ee" 14:31:35 If you'd like to make Tamás happy, vote for slimv on https://github.com/vim-scripts/slimv.vim ... then he'll be on place 3 for the vim-scripts 14:31:38 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:32:19 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.85] has joined #lisp 14:32:26 gigamonkey: I could send you a picture of my instance of "Coders at Work". 14:33:13 no, i am using the default bindings (=1), and ,d is compile defun 14:33:22 which is the most used one 14:33:29 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 14:33:54 sorry, i meant eval defun 14:34:21 Gertm [~Gertm@dD576D0D2.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 14:34:27 how about ",r"? a region is a paragraph in current -devel, that amounts to mostly the same thing 14:34:27 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-212.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:34:42 or just go into ftplugin/slimv.vim and change the single mapping 14:34:53 wasn't there an article on common lisp tips recently about rotating/shifting values in a list? or was it an discussion here on irc? 14:34:53 -!- Kron is now known as Guest44879 14:35:09 well, i am just learning the keybindings, i just discovered ,e, that works too 14:35:20 -!- Guest44879 is now known as Kron_ 14:35:32 aerique: http://lisptips.com/post/11017757059/swapping-places 14:35:55 flip214: thanks! 14:35:55 -!- pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:36:06 eMBee: that's only compatible with ,d if you're in the topmost-level, ie. on the defun level 14:36:23 well, get accustomed or change the binding, whatever is easier 14:38:24 H4ns [4ffc93ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.147.239] has joined #lisp 14:39:31 yeah, i'll work it out, now that i have some more options it will be easier, thank you!! 14:42:24 tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-14.bna.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:43:47 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:13 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 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[Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:20:28 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:22:54 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-212.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:12 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 15:24:36 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 15:27:07 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:11 -!- dpierce [~dpierce@pool-108-9-238-178.tampfl.dsl-w.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:32:58 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33:12 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:33:39 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 15:36:40 fixed a bug in stumpwm 15:36:55 <3 stumpwm 15:37:00 me too 15:37:10 problem was with sloppy focus and moving windows 15:37:22 cool 15:37:42 yes, best part was that i didn't have to restart stumpwm while I was developing the patch 15:37:59 nice 15:38:02 best part about lisp programs if they're designed right 15:38:20 i'd like to get blender to play nicely under stumpwm 15:38:27 never tried 15:38:36 and i'd like to add a tiling-algo feature as in xmonad 15:38:42 haven't tried gimp either...i've used that a lot more than blender 15:38:43 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 15:38:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:39:24 i'm pretty happy with stump tiling, i just have it match emacs tiling but with a different prefix key 15:39:32 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:39:39 i got emacs around my emacs, dog :) 15:40:06 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:42:20 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.110.178.4] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:43:00 http://xmonad.org/tour.html#tiling 15:43:18 i found that pretty handy when I used to use xmonad (before i found stump) 15:43:33 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:43:35 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:44:08 xan_ [~xan@183.Red-81-32-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:21 should be relatively easy to do w/ lisp 15:48:13 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:48:35 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 15:50:41 -!- benkard [~benkard@2001:4ca0:0:f208:a82f:d622:bf58:f91] has quit [Quit: benkard] 15:51:46 mathrick [~mathrick@83.1.168.198] has joined #lisp 15:57:23 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.158.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:58:40 -!- knottypines [~cmsfluff@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:26 -!- wishbone_ is now known as wishbone4 16:00:16 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:53 I have a macro with lambda-list ((&rest foo) bar), is there a way to make the (&rest bar) optional? 16:01:23 j_king: cook a zipper structure in common lisp, and the tiling will fall out of it. :) 16:05:55 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:06:07 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 16:08:07 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 16:08:58 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 16:09:12 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:35 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:09:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:09:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:10:21 mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 16:10:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@89-77-76-114.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 16:10:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:11:52 j_king: so it's just default tiling layouts? 16:12:30 kruhft: a user can specify others, but yeah; it keeps a set of layout algos in a ring. 16:12:57 knottypines [~cmsfluff@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 16:12:58 could be useful, but don't switch layouts that often 16:13:13 i just have my main setup on my main desktop and that's about it 16:13:58 Joreji [~thomas@94-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 16:14:11 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 16:16:46 -!- Harag [~phil@dsl-242-244-249.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:16:57 what is nice about them is that there is a concept of the "first" or "primary" window. you could pull a window into the primary position and the algo re-shuffles all the windows. 16:16:58 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 16:18:56 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:10 -!- parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:21 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:20:47 parabolize [~gyro@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:54 el-maxo: (defmacro m (&whole w) (parse w) ...) 16:23:37 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:13 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:26:26 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:28:59 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.60] has joined #lisp 16:29:08 -!- Amyn [~abennama@62.23.212.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 16:29:55 pjb: parse would be my own function? 16:30:00 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-29-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:30:20 t 16:30:44 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.122.60] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:11 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-gqphltpuicrdheug] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:32:04 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 16:32:24 -!- orclev [~user@c-76-18-219-103.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:33:00 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:34:02 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:35:56 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:37:08 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 16:37:30 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:37:46 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 16:38:24 pjb: I can't satisfy (defmacro foo (&whole args) ...) always says invalid number of arguments nomatter what I throw in 16:39:03 el-maxo: (defmacro m (&whole w &rest args) (parse w) ...) ; then. 16:39:37 Well you can skip the &whole w then, and just parse the &rest: (parse args). 16:39:51 I see 16:40:10 *el-maxo* wonders what &whole is for 16:40:40 ah I know 16:40:57 whole also contains the macros symbol 16:41:37 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:43:12 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:47:36 but since both arguments are lists it still cant be parsed... 16:47:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 16:47:55 guess I have to go with the vorbose syntax 16:47:58 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 16:48:00 verbose* 16:48:12 el-maxo: implement an heuristic to distinguish both lists. 16:48:23 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 16:50:38 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 16:51:52 I think I know what you mean 16:52:45 paul0` [~user@189.26.138.159.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:52:48 nope I don't 16:53:17 If the first list only contains symbols, and the rest only contains numbers, you can easily detecct when the first list is not given. 16:53:18 I guess you mean testing the first item of the list for a specific symbol? 16:53:40 Whatever works. 16:53:45 omg 16:53:46 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.44] has joined #lisp 16:53:48 its way easier 16:53:52 psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has joined #lisp 16:53:57 if there is just one item in args... 16:55:13 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:14 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-212.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:58:36 -!- redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:58:40 -!- Kron is now known as Guest34306 17:00:58 jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-20.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:00:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@94-036.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:26 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.44] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:46 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.44] has joined #lisp 17:06:20 /join #emacs 17:06:20 17:06:43 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:07:20 redline6561 [~redline65@li69-162.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 17:07:46 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 17:09:22 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:47 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:12:40 hi 17:12:45 pjb, ping? 17:12:52 -!- H4ns [4ffc93ef@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.147.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 17:14:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:17:02 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 17:22:29 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-70-189.iburst.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:23:29 Daditos [~kvirc@unaffiliated/daditos] has joined #lisp 17:26:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined 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[~schaueho@dslb-088-066-057-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:58:51 -!- SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:14 SegFaultAX|work [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 19:02:07 -!- lain_ [~lain@g225001234.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:39 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:06:38 -!- Quetzalcoatl_ [~Administr@cpe-75-186-5-185.cinci.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:06:52 Xach: I would like to request a "Try searching Quicklisp system instead?", or similar, restart for QUICKLISP-CLIENT::SYSTEM-NOT-FOUND which then maps to ql:system-apropos. think that would be useful (for the lazy)? 19:07:25 tsuru: you mean if you try to (ql:quickload "commonqt") which does not name a system but which does name a project? 19:07:45 that sounds like a good idea to me, can you create an issue for it on github under quicklisp-client? 19:08:29 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:08:44 Xach: when do you leave for euroland 19:09:12 Xach: I guess that's one use case... I just had the idea when I fat-fingered a package name 19:09:36 and yes I'll create the issue 19:10:46 tsuru: oh. it would take a special kind of fat-fingering to make that work, i think. 19:11:02 (ql:quickload "qtt") won't show anything in apropos 19:12:27 Xach: yeah I thought about that too... that's why I figured a selectable restart for people who are actually doing it your way or are purposefully lazy and not typing the full package name would be a better feature 19:13:13 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 19:13:16 Guthur: an hour or so 19:13:53 Xach: heh I'd be last-minute packing if I were the one leaving. 19:14:19 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-151-52.as43234.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:14:30 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-151-52.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:36 *Xach* is doing so, but travelling light, so nearly done 19:14:46 the last time I was travelling I only managed to get the flight because it was delayed 19:15:01 the traffic was way worse than I anticipated 19:15:02 ah :) 19:17:36 -!- paul0` [~user@189.26.138.159.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:17:52 antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-agsttibeoequhxml] has joined #lisp 19:23:20 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:23:36 -!- antgreen` [user@nat/redhat/x-vbtkkxobxkoddltk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:23:47 -!- rpg [~rpg@12.130.119.109] has quit [Quit: rpg] 19:29:21 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:33:40 have a great trip, Xach! 19:34:11 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:35:11 pnq [~nick@ACA2C722.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:52 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 19:38:50 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 19:43:29 manuel_ [~manuel_@p57920D48.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:52 -!- manuel___ [~manuel_@pD9FDF4D4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:47:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-88-20.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:58:09 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 19:59:12 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-177-189.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:25 -!- antgreen [user@nat/redhat/x-agsttibeoequhxml] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:14 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-58-29-41.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:21 Anyone here read Chinese? 20:05:54 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 20:08:25 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-057-209.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:09:18 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-101-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:12 pferor [~user@unaffiliated/pferor] has joined #lisp 20:19:58 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-031-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:20 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:20 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:23:28 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:24:07 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 20:25:01 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-101-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-031-161.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:26:27 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 20:27:27 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@204.15.3.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:29:34 benny [~benny@i577A8D0A.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:36:59 devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:22 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-043-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:46 what's the modern way to get emacs up and running with slime and your lisp interpretter? 20:39:50 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 20:40:00 devinus: quicklisp: http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/#installation 20:40:25 aha! 20:40:30 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:40:31 austinh: thanks, exactly what i was looking for 20:40:55 i knew my question was vague but my memory was fuzzy and didn't know how to google it 20:41:04 devinus: Your welcome. Quicklisp is great. 20:41:43 er, "You're welcome." 20:42:08 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 20:42:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:43:02 it certainly must make that first CL experience all the more enjoyable 20:43:36 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@143.106.196.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:39 I vaguely remember all sorts a pain when I first encountered asdf-install and asdf systems 20:44:04 I don't mind asdf now, but I can't say I miss asdf-install 20:48:09 I never really understood what was so bad about asdf-install 20:48:30 other than an interface that required more typing 20:48:42 One issue as a newbie was that instructions didn't tend to mention (require 'asdf-install) -- instead they would say that asdf-install was included with sbcl just like asdf, and then the directions would lead to an error. I didn't understand what was happening until after QL was launched. 20:49:42 holy sh*t that the installation for slime was easy 20:50:09 there was also the issue that it tried to do GPG-related stuff by default, which really confused newbies. 20:50:17 but was fairly necessary because links were just nabbed from cliki. 20:50:58 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: 1/0] 20:50:59 and it was so decentralized that it was anyone's guess whether something would actually install, or work with other libraries that had since been updated. 20:51:04 whereas Xach suffers compilation errors so we don't have to. 20:51:08 hrm, can you cause a thread to break in sbcl? 20:51:47 oGMo: INTERRUPT-THREAD with BREAK? Not recommended, but it might work. 20:52:43 nyef: thanks .. all it can do is make sbcl require restarting which it does anyway 20:54:39 _perfect_, stack trace where the problem is. not something to rely on perhaps, but if it works, i'll take it 20:55:11 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-043-195.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:56:35 Heh. I think lisppaste has a USR2 handler that dumps a backtrace to a file. 20:57:10 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 20:57:43 oGMo: attach with gdb, run that C function that prints a backtrace, detach (: 20:58:48 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 20:58:52 pkhuong: i'd rather not involve C and gdb where possible :P 20:59:18 (: 20:59:44 heh 21:04:48 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:06:00 freeone3000 [~James@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has joined #lisp 21:06:13 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:07:18 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d013b3c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:25 hi 21:07:53 vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-sryzeiydrohxfmfe] has joined #lisp 21:08:16 So I have http://paste.lisp.org/display/125417 . Why can I not input (2, 3) as standard input? I'm getting an error about a comma outside of an escape, but I'd like to read in the list as a symbol. '(2, 3) doesn't work either. 21:08:32 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:08:35 ..Well, barring that reading in a list as a symbol doesn't make sense. 21:08:50 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:44 freeone3000: a comma has special meaning 21:09:52 -!- devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:10:08 freeone3000: try entering just (2 3). 21:10:42 Bike: Thanks. I'm not sure why I thought lists were suddenly delimited. 21:11:29 delimited by whitespace, not commas 21:11:31 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:12:11 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:12:13 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:13:04 devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:22 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-210.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13:50 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:15:55 -!- knottypines [~cmsfluff@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:17:01 Aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has joined #lisp 21:17:16 Formally proving programming languages. 21:17:29 What's the thing that makes some languages (e.g. lisp?) better than others in this respect? 21:18:23 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:18:53 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@93.182.133.6] has joined #lisp 21:20:30 LISP is really simple. 21:20:53 "it just takes a genious to understand it's simplicity" 21:20:53 So it's a matter of computational complexity, or is a matter of more strictly guarunteeing the state of variables or something along those lines? 21:21:26 I don't know of any widely-used lisp that's particularly well-suited to this. 21:22:12 ML has had its semantics formally described pretty completely. ACL2 was specially crafted for that goal. They each have dedicated fora. 21:23:14 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 21:23:22 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:23:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-101-4.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:24:12 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-176-79.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:26:29 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-175-9.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:26:40 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:29:02 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 21:29:02 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:29:48 er, aren't formal proofs essentially meaningless as soon as code takes input or runs on hardware? ;P 21:30:44 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:34 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:31:36 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:32:11 oGMo: They're meaningless, but I was arguing with an EE in another channel who thinks "all turing complete languages are equal" in terms of provability. 21:32:34 The problem is that I only vaguely recall a tangential point in my programming languages class, so I don't know the percise counterexample. 21:32:36 sounds like a productive use of time 21:32:59 You'd be surprised to see how much a CS/math and an EE person can disagree. 21:34:32 oGMo: it's a pretty shitty proof if it doesn't account for input. 21:34:38 of course, a hardware error will always screw you over 21:35:32 So I'm attempting to write a depth-first-search, but I'm getting a stack overflow exception. http://paste.lisp.org/display/125419#2 is my code; does this mean that it's never getting into a goal state? I'm fairly sure I'm not getting loops because I nconc my entire candidate list to my visited list whenever I recurse. 21:35:44 i was under the impression the halting problem would screw you over too ;) 21:37:51 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:38:25 freeone3000: what editor are you using? 21:38:33 felideon: vim. 21:39:36 -!- devinus [~devinus@65.107.181.222.ptr.us.xo.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:39:43 Adlai [~user@unaffiliated/adlai] has joined #lisp 21:40:17 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 21:41:06 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A21E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:41:38 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:12 freeone3000: your code is pretty unreadable so getting help might be a bit harder. 21:42:28 for one, spurious hanging parens are a no-no. 21:42:55 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-57-67.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:43:01 haha, just like c 21:43:12 second, as pjb would say, you are not punch-card coding so no need to fit as much as you can in one line. 21:43:45 so I've never really used vim, but I assume it has some newline-and-indent features? 21:44:29 slimv formats nicely 21:44:48 but i noticed, if i autoindent something in vim, will look bad in emacs 21:45:45 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:46:22 hehe those are exceptionally long lines of code 21:46:52 that cond is pretty redundant isnt it? no many clauses 21:46:55 (I may have misunderstood the punch card comment though, as I never had the privelege.) 21:47:21 privilege* 21:47:32 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:47:49 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:55 ive never used n-functions before 21:48:07 -!- Aeth [~Michael@wesnoth/umc-dev/developer/aethaeryn] has left #lisp 21:48:16 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:48:17 Okay. is http://paste.lisp.org/display/125419#3 better? 21:49:12 mcstar: well there is the implicit progn with cond 21:49:29 which would not be there with an if 21:49:43 I'm using cond instead of if because it's easier to get the parens right. 21:50:08 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 21:50:16 freeone3000: slightly, but indententation seems off. but I assume you are indenting manually? 21:50:21 felideon: Of course. 21:50:21 *Guthur* has never had to manually control parenthesis 21:50:33 I prefer to use my editor, hehe 21:50:43 freeone3000: why do you say of course? 21:51:01 mcstar: Because I'm using vim and its autoindent makes the code more unreadable than anything I can do. 21:51:04 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:51:32 hm, my experience with vim want bad, its just that slime is really superior 21:51:36 wasnt* 21:51:58 mcstar: yep, it even says so on the tin 21:52:13 it must be true than 21:52:37 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:52:39 mcstar: does slimv 'fix' this autoindent problem? 21:52:52 im sure i didnt have any problems 21:52:53 you'll probably want to figure out how to indent automatically. It will help you catch paren placement bugs. I don't know vim though. 21:53:03 it indented correctly after each newline 21:53:06 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:53:13 freeone3000: you might want to familiarize yourself with slimv: http://kovisoft.bitbucket.org/tutorial.html 21:53:22 is there an equivalent of paredit with vim 21:53:32 unless you See The Light and switch to Emacs + SLIME 21:53:34 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has joined #lisp 21:53:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:53:56 hehe I was wondering how long it would take for that to be said 21:54:06 :) 21:54:21 Guthur: yep 21:54:28 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@113-9-190-109.dsl.ovh.fr] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 21:54:31 but it annoyed me 21:54:58 you can slice with with it anything, but i felt it didnt go well with the whole modal thing 21:55:13 i felt like being in a cage 21:55:15 freeone3000: you probably don't want to nest DEFUNs; the nested defun still makes a global definition. You can use either LABELS or FLET to make a local function. 21:55:19 than came slime 21:56:31 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:56:32 fisxoj [~fisxoj@cpe-69-201-186-74.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:56:49 Vivitron: Okay, or I could move the inner defun to global scope. Either way, doesn't change the actual execution of the code. 21:57:24 freeone3000: you need an "inner defun" if you want to refer variables that you function intercepts from the outer scope 21:57:59 Or I could pass them into the function, but I get what you're saying. 21:58:10 well, its not always good 21:58:22 for example with recursive functions, that collect something 21:58:36 you dont necessarily want to collect in an argument 21:58:42 I'm just curious how I'm getting infinite recursion where I have a base condition and make sure to add all adjacent nodes to the exclusion list in a depth-first search. 21:58:58 freeone3000: is that all the code? 21:59:21 ive seen a special var in there 21:59:58 mcstar: Which is only set, not read, so the warning can be ignored safely... 22:00:24 Only evaluation won't let you. Grr. 22:00:30 what warning? 22:00:38 k, im gonna try it 22:00:38 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 22:00:42 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:00:57 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 22:01:33 i knew i need a 24" monitor 22:01:37 freeone3000: I believe the "return result-set" form is ending your loop earlier than you want to. 22:02:25 mcstar: hah 22:02:58 freenode3000: try (loop for i from 1 to 10 do (print i) return i) 22:04:06 freeone3000: err, sorry, my mistake. 22:04:31 Vivitron: Okay. So what do I want it to do there? I want it to return the first non-NIL result-set. 22:05:18 the second argument oscillates between (2 4) and (3 4) 22:05:45 mcstar: Why isn't that value added to visited? 22:05:47 freeone3000: TRACE your function. 22:05:48 freeone3000: you'll need a "when result-set" or similar to make sure it's non nil 22:06:15 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:06:42 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:06:58 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@93.182.133.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:07:03 Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has joined #lisp 22:07:26 freeone3000: use second instead of (first (rest 22:07:38 and there are (1+ and (1- functions 22:09:59 but(2 4) is a goal state 22:10:34 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:10:47 okay, clearly sbcl found some optimization that ccl couldn't in my code. SBCL was running about 5x faster. I refactored the inner ecase to do funcalls to aid in profiling and SBCL dropped in performance comparable to ccl (the performance of which didn't change) 22:11:27 aham 22:11:38 freeone3000: i think the problem is with member 22:12:04 you need this: :test #'equal 22:12:21 you are comparing lists against each other, not atoms 22:12:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.124.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:12:40 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:13:43 ((2 3) (3 3) (3 2) (3 1) (3 0) (2 0) (1 0) (0 0)) 22:13:54 this is the result of the search, i.e. the path 22:14:37 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2C722.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:15:06 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:16:11 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 22:16:57 pnq [~nick@ACA2C722.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:17:44 marsell [~marsell@120.22.86.223] has joined #lisp 22:18:12 pon1980 [~pon@h195n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has joined #lisp 22:20:02 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 22:24:00 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.13.214] has joined #lisp 22:24:52 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.228.39] has joined #lisp 22:26:54 jaimef [jaimef@dns.mauthesis.com] has joined #lisp 22:32:47 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:33:51 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.228.39] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:33:58 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d013b3c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:36 askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.228.39] has joined #lisp 22:37:37 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:39:50 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.44] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:41:01 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 22:44:22 -!- pon1980 [~pon@h195n2-haes-a12.ias.bredband.telia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:45:01 mcstar: But goal-states should be ((2 3)), not (2 3) 22:45:57 dlila [~dlila@72.53.74.234] has joined #lisp 22:46:50 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:02 mcstar: Or are you saying that member doens't properly compare equality when members are lists? 22:47:04 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:31 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-28-16.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:32 freeone3000: yes 22:48:39 it is working with the changes 22:48:40 Okay. Which function does? 22:48:51 did you read why i wrote before? 22:48:54 what* 22:49:11 Okay, sorry for ignoring what I don't understand. What does ":test #'equal" do? 22:49:17 It doesn't look like a lisp form. 22:49:35 (member element list-of-elements :test 'equal) 22:49:43 its a keyword argument to member 22:49:55 i recommend browsing the clhs 22:50:28 be sure you understand the differences of the equality tests 22:51:04 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p57920D48.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 22:51:27 freeone3000: Usually member uses EQL to test if things are equal, but EQL doesn't do what you want for lists (e.g., (eql (list 1 2) (list 1 2)) => NIL) 22:51:52 Thanks for the explanation. Not sure why it would use eql when equal does the same thing but better. 22:52:16 it can be faster, it is less permissive 22:52:38 why would you use equal, instead of eq for keywords for example? 22:53:18 another remark, you seem to overuse member 22:53:30 it is not good strategy to search lists all the time 22:53:34 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 22:54:09 a depth first search is usually done with a stack btw 22:54:57 im not sure how much does speed matter to you 22:55:10 but as a rule of thumb you want to avoid unnecessary consing 22:56:48 freeone3000: Norvig has a dfs implementation you might want to see - http://norvig.com/paip/search.lisp 22:56:55 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:04 Kron [~Kron@69.166.23.18] has joined #lisp 22:58:23 i recommend a* 22:58:30 -!- Kron is now known as Guest39686 22:59:09 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-179-28-14.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:51 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-225-63.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:04:59 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:05:05 klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-225-63.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:06:20 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2C722.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:06:20 Anyone used sb-cover recently? I'm getting a lot of "WARNING: Error when recording source map for toplevel form 16656: unmatched close parenthesis" (like one for every top-level form). 23:09:01 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:09:09 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:10:59 -!- freeone3000 [~James@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:11:22 ISF [~ivan@201.82.133.10] has joined #lisp 23:12:12 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 23:13:55 -!- Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:14:50 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:15:03 Fare [~Fare@74.125.59.116] has joined #lisp 23:17:19 -!- karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:17:29 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:17:42 karswell [~coat@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 23:18:25 timack [~timack@hlfx62-2a-235.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:25:36 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:26:42 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8D0A.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 23:27:45 Is sbcl's *random-state* fixed or randomized when you start up sbcl? 23:28:03 Or do you need to do an explicit (setf *random-state* (make-random-state t)) to randomize it? 23:28:29 -!- askatasuna [~askatasun@190.176.228.39] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:29:00 if you want to randomize it, randomize it - safer 23:29:25 -!- anvandare_ [~anvandare@dD5770E78.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:39 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:53 Thanks Fare, that is what I am now doing. But does anyone know the answer definitively? 23:30:06 start it twice, query it 23:30:41 looks deterministic to me, definitely not randomized 23:31:07 Interesting. Are there any other non-deterministic parts of lisp? Floating point operations? 23:31:30 threading? 23:31:48 This is a single threaded genetic algorithm 23:31:48 non-deterministic wrt what? 23:32:01 different lisps have different optimizations 23:32:11 and yes, including fp optimizations. 23:32:27 assume sbcl as the lisp. 23:32:31 they hash differently, so iterating over a hashtable is not guaranteed deterministic 23:33:02 same version of sbcl on all machines? software running from identical image? should behave reasonably the same. 23:33:32 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 23:33:46 rukubites: look for "undefined" behavior and "implementation-defined" behavior in the spec (: 23:33:55 that should give you an idea what you can and can't rely on 23:34:01 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 23:35:04 Well I view it as a bug that I wasn't initializing random state. Now it is just an exercise of curiosity, because some 'identical' runs of the GA produced different results, and some other ones produced exactly the same results. 23:35:24 And yeah, the initial value of *random-state* is 'implementation dependent' :-) 23:35:55 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has joined #lisp 23:36:09 Lucky it was a trivial bug to fix. 23:36:58 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:37:08 paul0 [~user@200.175.60.205.dynamic.dialup.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:37:23 But as Fare said, all signs point to deterministic value. 23:37:55 I once updated the algorithm in sbcl's random thing. 23:41:43 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 23:44:16 anvandare_ [~anvandare@dD5770850.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 23:45:00 I think I have identified why the anomaly above. Thanks for help. :-) 23:48:44 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 23:49:30 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-225-63.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:50:35 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:52:24 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.169.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:54:19 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:55:08 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 23:57:04 -!- vpit3833 [~user@203.111.33.203] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:05 venk [~user@203.111.33.203] has joined #lisp