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[~mwright@ppp121-44-44-207.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:18:54 what's a good book for reading after Practical Common Lisp? 06:19:00 I'm looking for something more of a reference 06:19:13 say, I want to learn how multidimensional arrays work 06:20:03 so I guess, something to get a more comprehensive understanding of the CL standard libraries 06:23:40 catphive: the hyperspec and cltl 06:24:32 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:27:25 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:29:15 catphive: google common lisp the language, and bookmark table of content and index 06:31:30 that looks interesting 06:31:39 I've heard it differs from ANSI common lisp though? 06:31:49 do you find this to be true, or are the differences minimal? 06:33:20 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:33:32 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.43] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:44 In many ways CL is a cut-down version of CLTL2. 06:34:56 good morning 06:34:59 they took out features? 06:35:18 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.215] has joined #lisp 06:35:21 The differences are many and subtle -- I recomment reading CLTL2 to understand the language that became CL. 06:35:34 But read the hyperspec to know CL. 06:36:28 -!- hba [~hba@189.229.191.31] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:37:34 catphive: I did not really find any differences that matter in practice.. Well maybe (compiler-let) that did not make it into ansi, but thats very esoteric 06:38:59 well yes anyway, hyperspec is the definite reference, very dense and a last word basically.. clct2 is more of a tutorial/howto/user guide book, and for me its the first place I go to for "how something works" info 06:39:17 ok, cool 06:40:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-184-203.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 06:42:28 H4ns [5ddba450@gateway/web/freenode/ip.93.219.164.80] has joined #lisp 06:43:20 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:45:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:46:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:52:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-103-231.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: no melatonin for me.] 06:52:54 -!- catphive [~catphive@c-76-104-152-119.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:55:48 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:57:24 nostoi [~nostoi@111.Red-83-50-3.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:01:39 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 07:06:59 -!- Amyn [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:13:44 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:18:20 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 07:19:44 benkard [~benkard@emasq.stusta.mhn.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:04 -!- benkard [~benkard@emasq.stusta.mhn.de] has left #lisp 07:20:11 benkard [~benkard@emasq.stusta.mhn.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:12 -!- benkard [~benkard@emasq.stusta.mhn.de] has left #lisp 07:20:30 benkard [~benkard@emasq.stusta.mhn.de] has joined #lisp 07:20:37 _pw_` [~user@123.112.71.43] has joined #lisp 07:21:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:21:35 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 07:24:42 -!- _pw_ [~user@123.112.71.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:24:46 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.13.214] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 07:25:42 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:26:49 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:28:12 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.126.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:31:00 good morning everyone :D 07:31:04 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-63-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:31:04 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-63-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:31:04 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:33:47 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@111.Red-83-50-3.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:35:58 Yes CLTL is great. It is available for legit download as is the hyperspec. Also seconf hand on Amazon for $0.29 07:36:42 CLTL is not the HyperSpec, is it? 07:37:17 the second edition was written before ANSI standardization if I remember correctly 07:40:00 Blkt: Correct however it is still very usable. I use it to get overviews on new features. It explains how the language fits together. 07:40:56 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.14] has joined #lisp 07:41:29 xan_ [~xan@183.Red-81-32-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:46:00 I discovered only recently that in my university's library there's a copy of the first edition 07:46:16 I didn't know it was roughly 600 page shorter than the second edition 07:46:38 still, it is enlightening 07:50:12 -!- _pw_` [~user@123.112.71.43] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:50:49 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:57:45 tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:06:28 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.45] has joined #lisp 08:10:54 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-kqdehrhadculegfe] has joined #lisp 08:11:13 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 08:12:21 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-133-202.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:00 hi 08:13:58 it's not possible to have more than one line of instructions in an else branch ? oO 08:14:26 hakzsam: lisp does not work with lines. 08:14:31 hakzsam: it is not "line of instructions" but "form", and yes. one form in the else clause. 08:14:54 hakzsam: use cond if you require more than one form in a clause of a multiway conditional. 08:15:08 thanks 08:15:25 or PROGN to pack more than one thing in the form for a specific branch 08:17:26 collmanfromkieva [~user@94.232.208.225] has joined #lisp 08:17:33 hi all! 08:17:54 p_l: most people that i know prever cond to if+progn 08:18:07 exit 08:18:24 oh sorry I'm from Windows side :( 08:18:26 -!- collmanfromkieva [~user@94.232.208.225] has quit [Client Quit] 08:18:50 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-kqdehrhadculegfe] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:20:42 -!- Zephyrus [~emanuele@unaffiliated/zephyrus] has quit [Quit: ""] 08:20:55 -!- chemuduguntar [~ravi@118-92-4-31.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:08 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDE790.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 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#lisp 12:55:19 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:55:32 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:55:50 skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:24 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-184-2.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:56:26 Cam [~x@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 12:56:33 Hi, can someone help me understand why http://pastie.org/private/ujdqwt0lw2xvcqt8zznq is happening? 12:57:01 I can't even (setq newpost1 '(t e s t)) 12:57:06 Becuase that gives an error.. 12:57:19 todun_ [~todun@mobile-198-228-195-106.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:29 Cam: You should not use SETQ to introduce local variables. use LET instead. 12:57:32 Cam: Why don't you use LET? 12:57:38 How do I use let? 12:57:42 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:58:05 Cam: many books on Lisp will describe it to you. I recommend Practical Common Lisp at http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 12:58:13 Cam: (let ((newpost1 1) (newpost2 2) (newpost3 3)) BODY) 12:58:14 http://l1sp.org/cl/let has the formal specification. 12:58:15 I can't read a book right now. 12:58:21 Iceland_jack: what is body? 12:58:23 Cam: Then fuck off. 12:58:30 Thanks, Xach. 12:58:33 Cam: this isn't the lazy person's answer center. 12:58:41 Xach: I recognize that. 12:58:46 Xach: Oh I'm terribly sorry, I thought it was 12:58:52 But maybe pointing me to an online resource would be helpful. 12:58:55 As clearly, you are not. 12:58:59 Cam: I just did! 12:59:03 Twice! 12:59:09 Cam: Try Googling "let clhs" 12:59:12 I'm not going to read someone's book from cover to cover to find a function. 12:59:15 What is clhs? 12:59:26 Cam: Go away. 12:59:32 Rude. 12:59:39 Xach: I'm sorry I'm new to responding here, is he a persona non grata? 13:00:06 Iceland_jack: He is now. If you don't want to read introductory material or specifications, but just want answers, this is not a good place. 13:00:16 -!- skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:00:18 " I'm not going to read someone's book from cover to cover to find a function." is expressing enough ignorance to make him unwelcome. 13:00:38 Right, I'll keep that in mind when responding to questions in the future Xach 13:00:39 I gave a link to a great book on Lisp *and* a link to the exact answer. 13:00:42 That's unfortunate. 13:00:58 I missed your second link. 13:01:05 I was too busy reading all of your messages cussing at me. 13:01:05 This smells like "My homework is due later today so just tell me." 13:01:14 No, I don't do this stuff for homework. 13:01:18 My school doesn't teach programming. 13:01:43 Hanoi is serious business. 13:01:50 Indeed. 13:01:58 Cam: There's a ton of CL code you can review to see examples of Lisp functions and formatting in action. http://weitz.de/cl-ppcre is a great example library to study. 13:02:03 What better way to learn a language then try to solve a puzzle? 13:02:11 Thanks, Xach. 13:02:11 Cam: Your function is very difficult to read due to the unconventional formatting. 13:02:26 Okay. 13:03:43 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-200-190.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:04:22 Cam: in general, for any CL symbol X, http://l1sp.org/cl/X links to its precise specification. That's not always very helpful as a tutorial introduction, but there are several free online tutorial introduction books, and some great print-only tutorial introduction books. 13:05:28 I like Practical Common Lisp of the free online books, but there are some others, like Successful Lisp and Common Lisp: A Gentle Introduction to Symbolic Computation. 13:06:32 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:11 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-44.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 13:08:28 -!- Kron is now known as Kron_ 13:08:44 -!- borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:11:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:11:22 -!- jaminja [~jaminja@unaffiliated/jaminja] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:14:07 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 13:14:41 -!- reb```` [user@nat/google/x-rjpsunflpakopriz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:14:52 -!- xan_ [~xan@184.Red-83-36-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:15:46 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:15:57 *Cam* Xach Thanks for your help. Sorry for not being 'polite at first'. 13:16:07 Why did that /action? 13:16:40 Cam: Did you try the Google query I suggested? 13:16:52 xan_ [~xan@184.Red-83-36-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:17 Yes. It fixed a lot. 13:19:25 brown [user@nat/google/x-szzolhndohlyehnp] has joined #lisp 13:19:28 -!- brown is now known as reb 13:23:54 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-qxbcwumpjvkfksff] has joined #lisp 13:24:05 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.126.160] has joined #lisp 13:24:20 -!- katerbau [~axel@xdsl-81-173-155-206.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: katerbau] 13:28:19 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:28:34 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.126.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:28:46 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 13:28:52 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:30:25 -!- Cam [~x@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: thanks] 13:31:10 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:32:36 -!- Guest47356 is now known as X-Scale 13:33:12 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:22 G'morning all. 13:33:30 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 13:35:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:35:43 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:36:23 endparenn [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:38:31 -!- borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:40:03 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:41:01 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:41:20 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 13:42:06 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 13:47:51 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 13:48:59 hi nyef 13:49:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.85] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:49:52 skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:02 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.151] has joined #lisp 13:50:12 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.85] has joined #lisp 13:53:11 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-44-207.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:53:52 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 13:54:24 -!- skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:54:56 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 13:55:35 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 13:57:26 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-isdqzzjigvhuhvln] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:58:50 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:00:43 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 14:01:54 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:03:51 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 14:10:14 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: under the bit stream] 14:11:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:24 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:11:31 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 14:11:39 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:12:17 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 14:12:28 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:45 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:33 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.165.95] has joined #lisp 14:18:18 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:30 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:35 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:19:40 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:20:18 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA24D56.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:20:53 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.216] has joined #lisp 14:25:09 nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has joined #lisp 14:26:52 dwim_ [~dwim@87.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 14:27:03 -!- dwim [~dwim@87.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:27:09 -!- dwim_ is now known as dwim 14:28:01 dlowe [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 14:28:03 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:07 *Xach* wonders if people submit projects they actually need/want, or projects they just happened to stumble upon 14:28:22 I wonder if there are real users of cl-cgi, for example. 14:28:40 Xach: +1 on today's tip 14:28:43 what's a fictional user? :o 14:28:54 dlowe: thanks. 14:28:59 Xach: remove it and see people complain 14:29:28 ehu`: it's not incorporated 14:30:55 it wasn't asdf-installable, either 14:31:00 *Xach* checks clbuild 14:31:07 Xach: that problem i had with sbcl not loading my files correctly yesterday...well it was my mistake (as expected) 14:31:15 kruhft: the --script thing? 14:31:24 Xach: had 2 functions named the same one after the other, the second redefining the first 14:31:27 Xach: yeah 14:31:37 Xach: if cl-cgi is what I think it is, then I'm planning something where I would either use or reinvent it :) 14:31:58 Xach: which is why when i loaded the function i wanted to run using slime it would call the code i wanted since it was redefining the second function....stupid copy paste quick coding error 14:32:06 akovalenko: http://sourceforge.net/projects/cl-cgi/ is it 14:32:18 akovalenko: if you're starting something new, using hunchentoot behind a proxy is probably preferable 14:33:48 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:34:12 PuffTheMagic [~PuffTheMa@unaffiliated/puffthemagic] has joined #lisp 14:34:29 are there any still maintained tools for making lisp bindings for either obj-c or c++ 14:34:45 ... I bet ccl has something along those lines. 14:35:09 PuffTheMagic: any such tools would have to be specific to a particular version of a particular implementation of the compiler 14:35:14 PuffTheMagic: CCL has actively maintained Objective-C 14:35:24 (at least for C++) 14:35:38 dlowe: to C++. Objective-C is comparatively simple 14:35:40 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-11-161.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:35:47 I've been half-considering looking into ObjC bindings for SBCL, but probably won't seriously bother for a while. 14:35:50 dlowe: also, it has reflection 14:35:52 p_l: but is the ABI stable? 14:35:53 hmmm 14:36:01 hi 14:36:09 i love ccl, but my lab uses LW, i would need something that works with that :/ 14:36:23 have you guys seen this: http://norvig.com/java-lisp.html 14:36:24 dlowe: kind of. There's a standard by acclamation, I think :) 14:36:40 PuffTheMagic: I think there's something like cl-objc 14:38:42 quite an interesting problem, i just finished solving it 14:38:51 turns out im a pretty bad lisper 14:39:16 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 14:39:26 Realizing that is the first step (of seventeen) 14:40:12 *nyef* became a better lisper by studying objective-c. 14:40:44 well, norvig said he did it in 2 hours, i started yesterday, 1300, and its 1640 today 14:41:05 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.215.161] has joined #lisp 14:41:10 -!- skorpia [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:41:10 of course i did many things inbetween, but still, his script runs in ~0.3 secs, mine in ~2.3 secs 14:41:57 im just wondering if you guys solved that particular problem 14:42:42 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 14:43:17 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:38 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 14:43:51 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:43:59 skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:14 skorpia [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:47:16 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:47:53 -!- H4ns [4ffc9547@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.149.71] has quit [Quit: oo] 14:48:24 -!- skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:48:30 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-11-67-152.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:03 MrMc [~user@brln-4db9fbc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:28 Hallo lispers 14:50:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:50:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:05 -!- todun_ [~todun@mobile-198-228-195-106.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:52:29 I am trying to get elements of a list that are on the even positions what is the lispy way of doing it my solution looks like this (defun elements-in-even-positions (mylist) 14:52:29 (let ((temp '())) 14:52:30 (do ((x mylist (rest (rest x)))) 14:52:33 ((null x)) 14:52:36 (push (cadr x) temp)) (reverse temp))) 14:52:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:54:17 (loop for element in list by #'cddr collect element)? 14:54:18 (loop for item in mylist and even = nil then (not even) when even collect item) 14:54:46 (loop for i from 0 for element in list when (evenp i) collect element)? 14:54:50 Truly there are many options. 14:55:18 -!- tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-imgjbfbbqpqiocjs] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:55:41 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:56:05 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-oasxhsicdqyofbkf] has joined #lisp 14:57:16 (remove-if (let (take) (lambda (_) _ (setf take (not take)))) mylist) 14:57:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:58:40 -!- endparenn [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has left #lisp 14:58:52 superflit [~superflit@174-16-43-79.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:28 H4ns [5b3d4dbd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.77.189] has joined #lisp 15:00:44 :akovalenko:Xach Thank you very much 15:00:56 waltwhite [~waltwhite@168-170-33-178.dsl.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:50 -!- skorpia [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:02:48 antgreen [~user@c74-230.rim.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:53 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@168-170-33-178.dsl.ovh.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:03:00 akovalenko: thanks, i would have never thought of passing a lambda with a closure 15:03:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 15:04:05 skorpia [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:05:00 so, nobody did that particular problem i linked in? 15:05:07 MrMc: If you start with (cdr mylist), then you can (push (car x) temp) instead, and avoid pushing a NIL if the list length is odd. 15:05:26 So: (loop for element in (rest list) by #'cddr collect element) 15:06:13 MrMc: also notice that doesn't give the "even" positions, since positions are counted from 0. 15:07:20 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:07:47 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:08:35 pjb:Thanks for pointing out I saw this NIL 15:10:01 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:10:07 MrMc: also, I would name the variable result, or odd-elements instead of temp. 15:10:24 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 15:11:07 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 15:11:37 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:23 (loop for element in list as selected = nil then (not selected) when selected collect element) 15:16:26 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:19:47 dlowe: takes more characters to write, and makes more memory accesses. (Granted, the writes to selected _might_ stay in the cache, but nonetheless, it would consume more energy to compute. 15:21:43 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-44.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:44 dlowe: see http://paste.lisp.org/display/125376 15:22:39 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:23:10 pjb: that's an unusually aggressive critique you've got there 15:26:15 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 15:30:18 hi 15:30:38 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:31:20 I'm searching some exercises for lists, do you have any links, please ? (ie. for a newcomer) :] 15:31:32 hakzsam: there are the L-99 exercises. 15:31:49 http://www.ic.unicamp.br/~meidanis/courses/mc336/2006s2/funcional/L-99_Ninety-Nine_Lisp_Problems.html 15:32:15 hakzsam: you can check my solutions at http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/ (but read them before working on your own!). 15:33:43 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:33:54 I'm going to try to solve some of these exercises, thanks to you :] 15:35:14 and after solving one exercise, I will take a look at your solution 15:35:43 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:36:13 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:36:52 pjb: "(but read them before working on your own!)" why? 15:37:07 Sorry, I meant "DON'T read them" 15:37:35 A brain-finger interface problem... 15:38:07 skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has joined #lisp 15:38:18 pjb: did you do that example i was talking about? 15:39:14 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:39:23 I think I did it a few years ago, yes. 15:40:23 how did you score, if you are willing to share? how difficult did you find that problem? 15:40:25 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 15:42:13 -!- skeptomai [~cb@ip65-47-31-86.z31-47-65.customer.algx.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:42:39 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:42:47 -!- H4ns [5b3d4dbd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.77.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 15:44:10 pjb: this gives a shorter disassemble, also, this gives every odd-index element 15:44:12 (disassemble (compile nil (lambda (lst) (let ((res)) (reduce (lambda (x y) (when x (push y res)) (not x)) lst) (reverse res))))) 15:44:23 I don't remember. Perhaps it's in cll. 15:44:37 pjb, I checked your solution for my-last, however I used recursion like http://paste.lisp.org/display/125379 but I guess this is not the good solution actually 15:44:37 mcstar: yes, but it's more complex. 15:45:16 hakzsam: CL doesn't impose TCO. So for unbounded data structures, recursive solutions may fail. 15:45:25 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:45:31 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 15:45:37 TCO? 15:46:00 tail call optimization. 15:46:02 mcstar: not really (do you see a #'compiled-function in disassemble? therein a closure body is hiding from you :) 15:46:17 * # 15:46:35 oh 15:46:41 so, the iterative solution is more efficient 15:47:00 akovalenko: i never disassembled anything in clisp before, i missed it 15:47:51 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-mcwlvinwsihidwit] has joined #lisp 15:49:26 It's more readable than x86... 15:51:03 pjb: hi 15:51:09 flip214: hi, sys64738 15:51:14 flip214: hi, sys64728 15:51:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:51:40 Hi! 15:52:10 please, help me, where could I find the common qt apis? 15:52:30 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:25 -!- xan_ [~xan@184.Red-83-36-230.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:54:07 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 16:06:04 pjb, I'm sorry but I think that your recursive solution doesn't work here http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/p02.lisp ? 16:07:02 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 16:07:22 easyE [6ULW4p2Z5O@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:37 hakzsam: yes, it should call my-but-last instead of my-last. 16:08:12 ah yes, indeed 16:08:14 Posterdati: read the common qt sources i think 16:08:49 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 16:09:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.165.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:09:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:01 pnq [~nick@AC828B25.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:55 spacefrogg: because I'm looking for a date input control :) 16:11:04 hakzsam: http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/l99/p02.lisp is updated. 16:11:27 Posterdati: also, read the Qt doc, and infer how it's translated into lisp. 16:11:30 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:11:33 hakzsam, pjb: and I would say that empty list is just another case of "too short" one. Thankfully, (rest nil) is valid, and we can have one ERROR per function.. 16:11:56 pjb: thanks. that's what I just wanted to suggest. 16:12:04 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 16:14:48 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.35.115.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:15:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:19:11 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:19:57 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 16:20:35 -!- MrMc [~user@brln-4db9fbc0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:26:18 dwim_ [~dwim@87.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:46 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: going home] 16:28:00 pjb: runnin qt assistant right now 16:29:35 -!- dwim [~dwim@87.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:30:12 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-qxbcwumpjvkfksff] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:10 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:32:20 H4ns [5b3d4dbd@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.77.189] has joined #lisp 16:35:00 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 16:37:24 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:37:35 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:37 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:44 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 16:37:56 waltwhite [~waltwhite@168-170-33-178.dsl.ovh.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:14 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 16:40:37 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-xdsmxynxkisquzho] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:41:50 FreeArtMan_ [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 16:41:51 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:42:32 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:13 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:56 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.43] has joined #lisp 16:47:53 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 16:47:59 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:19 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:48:47 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:49:20 pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:51:03 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDE790.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:08 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:53:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:54:16 urandom__ [~user@p548A4F84.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:40 -!- pnq [~nick@AC828B25.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:56:42 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:56:49 pnq [~nick@172.130.139.37] has joined #lisp 16:58:16 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:59:03 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 17:00:34 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 17:00:48 -!- pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: from my iPad] 17:01:35 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:47 -!- FreeArtMan_ [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: under the bit stream] 17:03:47 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.43] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:03:57 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:04:59 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:05:17 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Client Quit] 17:05:27 Posterdati: hi, but you've got a type. I could look at my ROM listings to see what that does... 17:05:38 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:05:51 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.43] has joined #lisp 17:06:05 pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:06:47 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:07:29 -!- pjb_ is now known as pjb- 17:09:00 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:00 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:09:00 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 17:16:03 jikanter [~Adium@75-149-68-209-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:39 -!- pjb- [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: from my iPad] 17:19:49 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:21:40 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 17:25:15 -!- lain__ [~lain@p5795BFD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:25:17 -!- lain_ [~lain@p5795BFD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:29:39 flip214: I don't know what sys64728 does, but it is funny too 17:30:06 nostoi [~nostoi@221.Red-83-33-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:44 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:33:00 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 17:33:39 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:33:44 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:34:49 doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:38 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-44.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 17:38:05 -!- Kron is now known as Guest60152 17:38:25 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 17:42:21 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 17:44:51 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:45:17 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:56 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 17:48:17 k9quaint-wk [~k9quaint-@64.197.122.130] has joined #lisp 17:48:45 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:49:55 fmu____ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-lglspzzyhtyczvrn] has joined #lisp 17:52:47 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:53:29 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:53:48 -!- pnq [~nick@172.130.139.37] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:54:26 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 17:57:42 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:01:39 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:02:19 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.0] has joined #lisp 18:03:54 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:06:15 -!- Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:08:57 airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:11:26 lain_ [~lain@f052167084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:30 lain__ [~lain@f052167084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:12:06 hun [~user@178-27-102-152-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 18:16:13 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 18:16:33 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:17:35 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-188-249.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:55 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.0] has joined #lisp 18:19:18 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:05 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:29 -!- lain_ [~lain@f052167084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:23:29 -!- lain__ [~lain@f052167084.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:25:49 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@2001:690:2100:2:4687:fcff:fe91:9c05] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:29 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3F74.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27:14 -!- df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:47 -!- antgreen [~user@c74-230.rim.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:28:12 df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 18:28:33 flip214: are you studying for aima? 18:31:18 Doesn't ai-class follow aima? 18:31:40 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:31:56 chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has joined #lisp 18:33:10 amstan [~alex@142.222.14.188] has joined #lisp 18:33:28 -!- amstan [~alex@142.222.14.188] has left #lisp 18:34:09 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@221.Red-83-33-70.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 18:34:59 benny [~benny@i577A7395.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:30 pjb: that is the textbook for the course but they haven't given out any readings from it yet 18:35:45 it's all just been video lectures and a 6 question homework assignment so far 18:35:49 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:36:13 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:40:28 kruhft: the lectures are following the book 18:40:35 kruhft: there are suggested AIMA readings at https://www.ai-class.com/resources 18:40:40 *p_l* has the same material in his "robotics and learning" 18:40:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 18:41:02 meaning I got the dubious pleasure of redoing similar material a week after doing it for ai-class :D 18:41:28 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:43:04 *maxm-* did not go for ai class, too busy with my own stuff 18:43:16 *Xach* didn't realize it was Lisp-based 18:43:21 how is it comparing to just reading PAIP book? 18:43:32 Programming language is free. 18:43:41 luis: didn't know about that page, thanks 18:44:00 there are some people using Lisp for it, yep 18:44:18 i haven't seen any programming problems for the course yet...have i missed something? 18:44:32 kruhft: preparing for the future 18:44:35 i haven't checked out this weeks stuff yet though 18:44:42 it seems all of these AI classes basiaclly start with pattern matching, then run you through tree search, backtracking, theorem prover etc, ending up with writing your own 1980 style expert system or math expression simplifier 18:44:54 i found a page with lisp code for AIMA somewhere 18:44:55 ie its good, but not something you could not learn by just dicking around 18:45:28 maxm-: statistical methods, fuzzy etc are going to be covered as well 18:45:31 Imagine in your Resume: "Dicked around AI." 18:45:32 the third unit is bayes networks and probability, actually. 18:45:32 i took intro to ai in uni, but that was about 16 years ago now 18:46:00 maxm-: vs. Followed ai-class and ml-class with NN% and MM% 18:46:21 i got a zero on one of the prolog assignments because i ended up finding out how to write prolog like imperative c...the TA was not impressed 18:46:28 ml-class was killing me. I don't know how I got 85% on the review questions 18:50:38 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 18:51:27 -!- hun [~user@178-27-102-152-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:51:43 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:09 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: under the bit stream] 18:54:26 yea statistics/math stuff is one of my weaker areas, that stuff is hard to just "wing it", have to pay attention 18:54:29 slyrus [~slyrus@adsl-99-39-234-229.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:55:12 *maxm-* used to think himself math genius is high school, but exams and 1st semester in russian technical colledge quickly brought my ego down on that stuff 18:55:34 *Xach* is reminded of the purpose of higher education 18:56:23 Xach: provide a temporary relief from reality for people to contribute to open sauce? (: 18:56:43 *Xach* was thinking of http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3284144796180060KL2065E@naggum.no.html 18:57:08 that accords with my experience 18:57:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:59:56 ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has joined #lisp 19:00:54 a popular, unofficial name for a significant part of higher education in Poland could be losely translated as "frozen animation" 19:01:28 Xach: nice work on lisp tips! 19:02:11 Xach: nice comment on higher educateion. My peers in CS in college were unfortunately much less intelligent than my high-school peers, but I was in a below-average CS department and a well above average high-school. 19:02:21 *slyrus* has been contributing much less open source code since leaving grad school 19:02:47 slyrus: thanks. you got some tips? 19:02:53 hagish [~hagish@p54983A8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:16 -!- chiguire|m [~chiguire@gentoo/developer/chiguire] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:03:22 Xach: Have you done map-into to vectors with a function? 19:03:30 *to initialize 19:03:42 pkhuong: I don't think so! I'll check my drafts 19:05:28 Xach: not at the moment, but I'm sure I'll think of something eventually... 19:05:47 jdz [~jdz@host216-111-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:05:57 pkhuong: nope. i added a reminder to do that. did you have a specific use-case in mind? 19:06:28 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:30 i've used it for things like filling a string with random characters. 19:07:06 -!- waltwhite [~waltwhite@168-170-33-178.dsl.ovh.net] has quit [Quit: waltwhite] 19:07:16 Xach: I think the buggy (make-array ... :initial-element (make-mutable-object)) is a nice example. 19:07:52 is it possible to inspect locally declared variables in SLIME's debuger? seems like I can only inspect function arguments 19:08:04 pkhuong: ahh, right. 19:08:25 kennyd: I compile the function with C-u C-c C-c to get more variable visibility. works in SBCL at least. 19:08:38 kennyd: you may need to (optimize debug) to preserve variables that have been optimized away 19:08:45 pkhuong: that is a great example, i forgot how frequently that seems to come up. 19:09:29 I am using CCL at the moment, I'll try C-u C-c C-c and optimize debug 19:09:43 kennyd: C-u C-c C-c does optimize debug for you. 19:09:56 C-u C-c C-k for the whole file. 19:09:58 ah I see 19:10:03 thanks I'll try 19:10:05 http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/11349664665/compilation-policies 19:10:10 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:10:21 Xach: do some clos ones.. IMHO a useful one, you can change slot properties in subclass to give them different default values.. (defclass animal () ((sound))) (defclass dog (animal) ((sound :initform "bark"))) (defclass cat (animal) ((sound :initform "meow"))), then (make-instance 'cat) gets the right sound automatically 19:10:45 *maxm-* used to write tons of initialize-instance :after methods before I realized it 19:10:48 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:10:58 maxm-: be easier to use default-initargs 19:11:03 maxm-: i have one of those queued up, but showing how to use :default-initargs for that purpose, and with a link to riesbeck's rationale 19:11:20 ah good 19:11:20 i have more clos ones on the way, too. 19:11:38 I'll try to send you a couple defstruct tips. 19:12:19 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-002-204.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:12:24 xach: a clear example of how to use :shadow and :shadowing-import-from would be nice! 19:12:44 pkhuong: thanks 19:12:54 it took me a while to figure out how to sanely export chem:atom in my chemicl stuff, IIRC 19:13:01 I need to write up my philosophy of tips. I've gotten a few that are nice but not what I am quite looking for. 19:13:07 *maxm-* tries to think of last time I did something clever and could not think of any 19:13:28 maybe this "do it the dumb way" methodology is stiffling creativity :-) 19:14:12 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.39] has joined #lisp 19:14:33 maxm-: It helps to read a lot of code, both for "I didn't know you could do that" and "I bet that person would benefit from knowing about XYZ" 19:14:50 ah, using complex for points, does it qulify as a tip? 19:15:16 the whole internet read that one 19:15:28 hah 19:15:31 ie (abs (complex x1 y1) (complex x2 y2)) == distance between points x1 and x2 19:15:42 abs takes two arguments? 19:15:52 forgot the inner minus there 19:15:59 maxm-: sadly libraries tend to not use them, and they're restricted to 2 dimensions ;/ 19:16:53 That is actually a good tip, because I had heard the "complexes can be used for points" bit before, I didn't know (or had forgotten) *why* they are more useful than other two-slot data structures like conses. 19:17:01 is there a good reason not to simply use the value slot of the symbol as the 'backing store' in http://rpw3.org/hacks/lisp/deflex.lisp ? 19:17:03 *maxm-* added marshalling to commonqt for them, since I tend to create long polylines than i needed to manually bezier smooth 19:17:28 I've implemented something similar and it worked, but now I'm not sure if I've missed some subtle point of the spec 19:17:57 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:17:57 One problem with complexes however, is that they cannot hold symbolic expressions. 19:18:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125122 19:19:13 Maybe something about (values) and (multiple-value-call)? I can't think of a nice example right now, but its useful when you have &rest args function, and kind of just want to append arguments together, with some returning 0, values, some 2 or 3 19:19:47 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.187.102] has joined #lisp 19:20:15 df: (setf symbol-value) or progv. 19:20:53 Common Lisp can't do quaternions. *sniff* 19:21:35 it certainly _could_ 19:22:10 ie (multiple-value-call 'list (values 1 2) (values) (values 3 4 5)) 19:22:31 sure, but there's not a built-in representation 19:22:32 rather then using (apply 'list (append ....)) 19:22:37 maxm-: neat, i don't think i've seen that. 19:23:20 When I was fresh and new, I thought APPLY could take exactly two arguments, and spent a lot of time consing up lists with stuff on the front to pass to APPLY :( 19:24:44 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:10 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:26:17 vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:27:21 maxm-: multiple-value-call is used in ALEXANDRIA:CURRY in a similar manner (to avoid appending argument lists) 19:28:02 akovalenko: yea that's probably where I learned it 19:29:25 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl22-79-73.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:31:43 pkhuong: I don't follow - (setf symbol-value) will just do the same thing as setf, and progv will allow you to explicitly create a dynamic binding for the symbol, but I'm not sure why that's a problem - presumably if you do that you know what you intend to achieve 19:32:13 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:35:21 -!- Guest60152 [~Kron@129-97-120-44.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:35:40 df: not quite. (setf symbol-value) means that it's not true lexical scope anymore. 19:35:58 I can change the binding even when it's been shadowed. 19:36:29 but then couldn't one do that with the backing store variable in the original? 19:36:35 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:43 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-142.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:36:52 you have to go out of your way to find it. 19:37:10 I guess I consider using symbol-value to also be going out of your way 19:37:54 df: one can happen by accident (you don't know that the variable has been deflexed), not the other. 19:38:31 ok 19:39:02 do you know what was wrong with the original vector approach? I haven't managed to find the cll discussion 19:39:12 *maxm-* still remember trying to get his default-special-bindings lisp into SBCL 19:39:15 francogrex [~user@109.130.111.65] has joined #lisp 19:39:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:39:25 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:39:28 my first thought was to use a single special variable containing a plist 19:39:30 like 3 years ago.. Was a right thing IMHO, still hitting bugs here and there with something not bound in a thread 19:39:45 (but then my use case is for a fairly limited number of variables) 19:41:04 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:41:10 df: I don't know. I'd use l-t-v and a weak hash table from variable name to CONS. 19:41:46 maxm-: what do you mean with 'default special bindings'? 19:41:57 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:42:03 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.0] has joined #lisp 19:42:15 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 19:43:03 prxq: basically an array of ((symbol . value)) as a default to be wrapped into (progv ()) in make-thread 19:43:06 manuel__ [~manuel_@p57920D60.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:11 prxq: right now it uses hardcoded list of variables 19:43:58 maxm-: oh yeah... low-level feature. An alist of symbol -> function would probably be nicer. 19:44:24 well it makes it easier for libraries to specify variables that should be bound per-thread 19:45:05 otherwise if you use multiple thread and lets say libraries A B and C, you have to really look into their sources and analyze all defvars, to see if any of them need to be bound per thread 19:45:19 maxm-: or the library could document that fact. 19:45:19 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDE790.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:45:21 otherwise you'll hit very hard to debug bugs 19:45:22 -!- manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 19:45:30 that way you can get things right even if you use thread pools ;) 19:46:07 *akovalenko* is reminded of a thing that could be called "deflex for constants": http://paste.lisp.org/display/125383 19:46:45 maxm-: basically you want to redefine progv, right? Why not do it using shadow? 19:46:46 well I guess so, but it seems almost everyone dealinng with thread has their own equivalent of "whatever-thread-bindings" method. Ie SBCL, and various web servers.. Would have been nice to standatize it 19:46:56 s/sbcl/slime 19:47:00 i mean instead of modifying the impl 19:47:29 *prxq* .oO( perhaps I don't know what you are talking about ) 19:47:39 prxq: no no not redefine progv... Just have a global list of vars that (make-thread) will bind using (progv), and some macros/utilities to massage the list 19:47:49 allegro has it, its called default-special-bindings there 19:48:33 actually maybe recent bordeaux threads implemented it, it seemed to be moving in the right direction, gonna look 19:48:35 ah ok, I understood. 19:49:12 btw, is there anything to envy in c++11's multithreading support? 19:49:17 ah it did... its right there, *default-special-bindings* 19:49:19 pretty cool 19:49:35 the memory model, at least. 19:49:45 all the atomic operations. 19:50:16 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.85] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:50:21 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:50:51 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@dsl-72-19-44-091.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:50:57 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 19:51:11 ok so it's not just hot air 19:51:19 plus baroque nightmares 19:52:01 nurv [~nurv@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:52:06 -!- nurv [~nurv@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 19:52:45 nurv101 [~nurv101@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 19:53:02 maxm-: the right thing would be *thread-hook* (the model is *macroexpand-hook* or *debugger-hook*), as there may be numerous things that we might want to introduce for new threads, like catch tags and condition handlers; dynamic bindings are just an example. 19:53:16 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:53:55 yea thread-hook seems to be a good idea... You should post it to bordeaux mailing list, it seems bt is defacto wrapper standard for threading right now 19:54:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:56:17 pkhuong: do you think it is easy to emulate / do something comparable? 19:56:37 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:58:21 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:45 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:48 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.111.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:49 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.59] has joined #lisp 19:59:00 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:59:16 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 19:59:42 prxq: yes. 20:00:11 akovalenko: otoh, default bindings could be computed in the parent thread. 20:04:05 pkhuong: thread creation code can use parent thread's binding for *thread-hook* as well (so the parent thread is able to suppress global default bindings entirely or augment them) 20:04:58 akovalenko: and how would that work, if they're also supposed to have dynamic extent effects in the child? 20:05:35 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:06:03 pkhuong: that won't work. "spaghetti dynamic extents" are horrible enough semantically :) 20:06:23 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-11-161.monradsl.monornet.hu] has left #lisp 20:07:17 nurv101 [~nurv101@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:07:41 marsell [~marsell@120.20.204.95] has joined #lisp 20:08:02 -!- nurv101 [~nurv101@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:45 Hello Dragons! 20:09:29 nurv101 [~askmefori@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:10:52 when specializing CL:SLOT-MISSING is following the general form of its signature: 20:10:57 (class (object ) (slot (eql ')) &optional ) 20:11:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:12:39 such that for i just supply one of the quoted symbols 'slot-value 'slot-makunbound 'slot-boundp, or 'setf? 20:12:58 Or do i need to do (operation (eql 'slot-boundp)) ?? 20:13:05 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-mcwlvinwsihidwit] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:13:58 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:14:12 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:24 mon_key: _you_ don't _supply_ operation, you just accept it. You may choose to provide specialized methods for each operation with (eql 'slot-boundp)..., or one method for all operations, if you want. 20:18:07 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-26-166.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:20 akovalenko: so for the one-method-for all the relevant protion of the signature is (operation t) ?? 20:21:19 hyko- [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:23 mon_key: (defmethod slot-missing ((c..) (i..) (s..) operation)) is enough, 'cause T specializer is implied 20:22:22 akovalenko: OK. Thank you for your help. 20:22:32 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-63-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:22:32 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-63-136.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 20:22:32 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 20:23:05 -!- jdz [~jdz@host216-111-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:05 -!- benny [~benny@i577A7395.versanet.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:05 -!- df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:05 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:05 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:05 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:06 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:07 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:07 -!- setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.199] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:07 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:07 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:07 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:07 -!- spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:07 -!- macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:07 -!- herbieB_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:23:11 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 20:23:23 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:24:00 -!- hyko- is now known as hyko 20:24:06 catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-oplngsfenjmnamrs] has joined #lisp 20:24:11 -!- catphive [~brenmill@nat/cisco/x-oplngsfenjmnamrs] has left #lisp 20:24:40 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 jdz [~jdz@host216-111-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 setmeaway2 [setmeaway3@118.45.149.199] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 spacebat [~spacebat@ubermonkey.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:40 herbieB_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 20:25:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:47 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:27:41 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:29:51 benny [~benny@i577A7395.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:03 Do packages behave like singletons in the sense that I can load one package from multiple places (other packages) and for instance the values of external variables will be the same for each other 'place' that has it loaded? 20:30:21 I 20:31:29 'm trying to figure out where/how to store values that are globally needed for multiple packages in a project. 20:32:31 phryk: packages aren't loaded. 20:32:34 phryk: packages do behave like singletons, but almost any other concept you just used is terribly wrong. Packages do not load packages, they aren't loaded, you can't load anything _from_ package either, variables don't belong to packages (symbols do).. 20:33:19 pkhuong: does/can sbcl offer atomic ops? 20:33:34 Guthur: yes. 20:33:36 Guthur: Yes, it does (can) 20:33:36 relating back to the question about c++11 threading 20:34:02 -!- mperillo [~manlio@151.75.55.131] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 20:34:06 cheers 20:34:18 -!- nurv101 is now known as Bishop 20:34:55 -!- Bishop is now known as nurv101 20:35:22 are such ops not often provided by implementations? 20:35:25 Ah okay. 20:35:25 Is there a specific term for the external symbols of a package that do not represent functions but values I still don't know if I put that right :/ 20:35:27 Guthur: see sb-ext:compare-and-swap (there is also fetch-and-add for some word-sized unboxed places: sb-ext:atomic-incf, sb-ext:atomic-decf) 20:35:49 I'm just looking and not seeing much with regard to atomic ops in bordeaux-threads 20:36:29 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 20:36:56 I can totally understand how bt has to go with a lowest common denominator, in the main 20:37:01 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:38:59 madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has joined #lisp 20:39:04 Guthur: in theory, they could be emulated with a hash table of locks. 20:39:13 Guthur: atomic ops provided by SBCL are not portable. Well, if you look at portable-threads in GBBopen, there is some mutex-based "portable atomic" thing. Maybe it will be rewritten eventually to take advantage of real atomic primitives where they're available. 20:39:21 -!- nurv101 is now known as birkoff 20:39:43 -!- birkoff is now known as KiTT 20:40:10 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:54 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.216] has joined #lisp 20:41:42 -!- KiTT is now known as nurv101 20:43:20 pkhuong akovalenko: ok, thanks 20:46:14 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:46:44 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 20:47:09 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:17 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:48:54 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:49:33 Multiple inheritance question, I have two superclass with the same named slot and in different packages. something like (defclass pak1:A () ((height))) (defclass pak2:B () ((height))) (defclass pak1:C (A B)()) 20:49:55 Atomic ops in SBCL are portable, in the sense that they're available on SBCL no matter which threaded architecture you use. :-P 20:50:00 what will (setf (slot-value obj-of-C 'height) 2) do 20:50:18 nyef: even windows, hehe 20:50:33 Guthur: I was more thinking CPU architecture. 20:50:38 -!- nurv101 is now known as Bischoff 20:50:45 -!- Bischoff is now known as nurv101 20:50:50 nyef: ah, fair enough 20:51:40 on the package question, SBCL warns about this situation 20:51:56 and I'm wondering what the upshot is 20:52:07 I did find something amusing recently, though. There's a comment in SYS:SRC;CODE;TARGET-THREAD to the effect that the stack is always conservatively scanned on gencgc platforms, which is patently false. 20:52:40 Guthur: Warns that each class... has a slot named by different symbols but the same print name? 20:53:05 nyef: warns about the name in another package 20:53:16 sorry don't have the msg to hand 20:53:25 So, now that my SLOT-MISSING method works I have another question? Are there situations (outside the MOP layer) where the slot of an instance might become missing? I can understand why the spec exposes SLOT-MISSING for situations where a caller might ask to do something for a slot that doesn't _exist_ but I'm not finding satisfaction reference in the spec as to how a slot might become _missing_. 20:53:51 If they're disjoint symbols, you have possible confuzzlement between the two slots, and any initargs could be a problem. 20:53:53 -!- nurv101 is now known as bispo 20:54:18 sorry the phone has just rang 20:54:42 mon_key: There are a couple of things in the spec that are basically hooks for the MOP. 20:54:44 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:54:56 slot-missing being one? :) 20:55:03 Quite possibly. 20:55:21 mon_key: I guess, if you redefine a class and there's no slot in the new definition, slot becomes missing. 20:55:21 Then again, ISTR someone finding a way to get a non-constant symbol into the keyword package. 20:55:41 akovalenko: does it? 20:55:45 Ah, there you go. 20:55:57 Class redefinition could plausibly do the trick. 20:56:05 DISCARDED-SLOTS arbg 20:57:13 -!- bispo is now known as nurv101 21:00:22 -!- jdz [~jdz@host216-111-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:01:08 francogrex [~user@109.130.111.65] has joined #lisp 21:01:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.59] has quit [Quit: Offline] 21:07:19 umm I can not reproduce the warning, maybe it was something else 21:08:01 -!- df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:25 df [~df@163.8.187.81.in-addr.arpa] has joined #lisp 21:08:29 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 21:09:42 Ok that a slot could become missing around u-i-f-r-c makes sense. So one could define slot-missing hooks that get triggered when an instance is updated for a different or redefined class (and maybe for a changed class). 21:14:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:16:17 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:17:34 Prob. the biggetst rationale for slot-missing is w/r/t CHANGE-CLASS 21:19:01 xan_ [~xan@183.Red-81-32-69.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:19:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:20:15 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.40.215] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:20:33 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-72-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:20:52 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:20:56 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:21:04 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-174-142.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:21:27 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 21:22:26 doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:35 totzeit [~kirkwood@204.15.3.100] has joined #lisp 21:25:50 tmh [6367f896@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has joined #lisp 21:26:04 Greetings lispers. 21:26:29 _schulte_ [~eschulte@c-174-56-1-147.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:32 Does anyone have a good, lisp specific, reference on when to use composition -vs- inheritance? All of the references I find apply to javascript/java/python/C#/C++,etc. where the problem is that methods are tied to classes. This isn't the problem in lisp. 21:27:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-193-219.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:29:33 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c1f78.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:30:55 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:30:56 tmh: hmm, i don't know, but i usually think about it as has-a vs. is-a, i guess. 21:31:27 paul0` [~user@189.26.138.159.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 21:32:09 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.111.65] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:25 Bike_ [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 21:32:43 Xach: Ah! That is what everyone starts their article with, but it always seems to be a more subtle issue than that. 21:32:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Disconnected by services] 21:32:55 -!- Bike_ is now known as Bike 21:34:20 probably 21:34:27 Every time I think I understand CLOS and try to do something sophisticated, I get confused and have to review the fundamentals. 21:36:05 AFAICT, is-a vs. has-a is completely broken wrt inheritance vs. composition. 21:36:44 what is the emacs commend to check for a function documentation? 21:36:51 *Xach* hasn't really thought about it too deeply 21:36:53 (on the hyperspec or something) 21:37:02 paul0`: C-c C-d h, maybe? 21:37:16 I think it is Alt-. in slime 21:37:21 C-c d h in slime 21:37:29 Woops, no that is source 21:37:32 Alt-. take you to source 21:38:00 Anyway, back to objects. It may be easier to work in terms of protocols than in terms of... "intrinsic properties". 21:38:11 That makes me think I rely on the source too much. 21:38:52 nyef: inheritance relationships can help save work when implementing the protocols. 21:39:10 Xach: Exactly my conundrum, where should I be lazy. 21:39:50 tmh: well, to nyef's point, i think it *does* help to think about the protocol first, and define generic functions. 21:40:03 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:40:08 then use class definitions to implement the protocol in a convenient or sensible way. 21:41:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:41:21 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:41:39 hehe, I was just thinking of this topic in the shower 21:41:50 -!- easyE [6ULW4p2Z5O@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:53 Xach: Definitely, the protocol should drive things, but there are several ways to handle the implementation and I seem to keep going in circles. It probably doesn't matter, I should just get it done, but about every 6 months, I end up overhauling the internals of this library. 21:42:30 I look at it and think, "WTH was I thinking?!?" 21:42:35 This is crap. 21:43:03 tmh: well, you just gotta do it... 21:43:07 I was thinking how inheritance is better in regards to sharing functionality, interface protocols 21:43:29 It definitely gets better each iteration, but I'd like to move on and quit monkeying with it. 21:43:32 read code, write code, practice 21:44:04 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:04 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:44:04 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:44:19 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:44:33 I rarely let code reuse guide my inheritance tree. I don't have any problem with forwarding calls to components. 21:45:37 pkhuong: I had that decision recently and I must admit I didn't feel overly strong in my commitment to use inheritance 21:45:42 though i did finally 21:46:14 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 21:46:26 -!- totzeit [~kirkwood@204.15.3.100] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:46:45 still look at it and think maybe composition would have been good enough 21:46:55 totzeit [~kirkwood@204.15.3.100] has joined #lisp 21:47:08 At this point, I'm thinking to use mixins for protocol implementations. 21:47:24 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:47:28 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-17-204-30.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:54 Even when only one class will be inheriting directly from all of the mixins. 21:48:43 pkhuong: That's been my approach, but it has broken down with instantiation of some of the objects where I'm really trying to automate initialization of the slots to the greatest extent possible. 21:49:06 nyef: I don't really understand mixins. 21:49:42 -!- jikanter [~Adium@75-149-68-209-Illinois.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:11 Getting the proper data to the proper place during initialization has turned out to be challenging. 21:51:52 I think mixins are a good fit with protocol-oriented stuff. "Here's a protocol, and here's a default implementation of the various roles." Inherit the right mixins for the roles your classes play, and a lot of stuff is just done. 21:52:51 nyef: Yes, I have the sneaking suspicion that if I understood mixins, they might apply. 21:53:05 I like that slots can have multiple reader/accessor/writer options, so the same slot can play roles in multiple protocols. 21:54:30 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.216] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:54:42 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.216] has joined #lisp 21:56:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:57:06 benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has joined #lisp 21:59:57 jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:01:08 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p57920D60.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 22:03:12 I'm at a point where my comprehension of CLOS needs to be 1 level deeper. I'm still not even close to trying to understand how to use the MOP. 22:03:13 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4F84.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:03:44 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.194] has joined #lisp 22:03:55 The MOP is still a mystery to me, too. 22:05:21 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.184.120] has joined #lisp 22:05:39 *Xach* ain't yet seriously used MOP 22:06:14 Hey guys, do any of you use slime-cover? 22:06:21 My plan is to understand how to apply everything in Keene, understand the content in "Object-Oriented Programming: The CLOS Perspective", and then try to dig into the MOP book. 22:07:41 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:09:54 italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-199-94.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:13 does anyone know offhand of any animation/game examples using cl-cairo2? 22:11:48 DataLinkDKT [~DataLinkD@120.152.150.13] has joined #lisp 22:11:52 -!- madalu [~user@unaffiliated/madalu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:13:06 ltriant_ [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:13:31 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:13:39 -!- ltriant_ is now known as ltriant 22:13:47 -!- jmckitrick [~user@108-77-157-187.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:14:17 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:14:24 My plan is to do something possibly overboard with mixins and protocols and see how it works out. 22:15:33 push too far and it might become self aware 22:18:50 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:19:25 -!- hagish [~hagish@p54983A8A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:20:18 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:16 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.109.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:26:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:26:25 dwim__ [~dwim@87.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:25 -!- dwim_ [~dwim@87.Red-79-146-127.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:32:50 nurv101` [~askmefori@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 22:32:53 -!- paul0` [~user@189.26.138.159.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:34:07 Guthur: That'd be a nice "failure" mode. 22:34:38 nyef: not really 22:34:49 it probably wouldn't be "Friendly" 22:35:34 -!- nurv101 [~askmefori@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:35:42 p_l: It probably wouldn't "matter". It'd take more than self awareness to be able to do any real damage. 22:36:04 -!- italic [~italic@cpe-74-77-199-94.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:37:54 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:37:58 yep, there is always C-x C-c 22:38:35 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:36 unless over course it take over my emacs, which not be good 22:38:51 I've move alot of my eggs into that basket recently, hehe 22:38:56 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:42:39 -!- benkard [~benkard@141.84.69.67] has quit [Quit: benkard] 22:42:42 -!- airolson [~airolson@CPE00222d55a738-CM00222d55a735.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [] 22:44:45 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 22:46:20 there is a indentation that really bugs me `(,(foo) ,(bar)) over two lines 22:46:31 bar does not line up with foo 22:46:44 it starts one char to the right, anyone else notice this 22:46:44 ? 22:47:01 Guthur: I fix it by hand. 22:47:42 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:50 pkhuong: the indentation rule, or editing by hand? 22:48:16 the latter. 22:50:45 Mmm. Backquote and LOOP are the two major places where automatic indent seems to fall down. 22:51:16 If you add a space between ` and (, they will align, IIRC. 22:52:10 pjb: nope 22:52:21 might have change 22:52:23 d 22:54:31 Ha no, it's when I write ,@(...) to get correct indentation of the multiline sexp, I write ,@ (...). 22:57:54 IIRC, `(let ,(mapcar ...) ...) doesn't indent mapcar well either if mapcar's args are in separate lines 22:57:54 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:58:16 but you can always `(let (,@(mapcar ...)) ...) 22:59:23 nice tip (about the space, that is), i'll try it 22:59:28 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:59:28 The indenter would have to count backquotes and commas to know what's code and what's data. And since in those case, a lot of data is code (but you can also use ` on data), it would have to have a heuristic, (eg. looking at the symbol used) to determine if data is actually code. 23:00:25 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:01:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-186.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:01:00 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 23:01:02 "This is a heuristic, which is a fancy term meaning that it doesn't work." 23:01:22 So (progn `(let ,(mapcar ...) (print 'hello))) would indent everything as code, but in (progn `(father ,(mapcar ...) (john jane))) it would indent only the progn and the mapcar as coode. 23:01:44 as long as father and john are not defined as a function or macro. 23:03:18 Okay, time I got out of here. 23:03:21 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:03:57 nyef: I think the world is ready for a Heuristic Programming Language. We already have a lot of successful Algorithmic Programming Languages who are so ill defined that they're close to be heuristical (eg. perl), we could embrace the principle from the ground up. 23:04:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-105-29.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:27 pjb: some people at MIT are working very hard at that. 23:04:46 Lucky people! 23:05:37 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:08:02 is Tcl similar to Perl 23:08:27 I have to use tcl at work, so times, but never really ventured into perl 23:08:39 but they have that $ thing going on 23:08:46 Perhaps, but indeed, nothing can be as horrenduous as perl. 23:08:48 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:09:07 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-126-222.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:09:17 you'd be surprised. ISTR first-class functions being implemented as strings. 23:09:48 tcl does do some interesting things with strings 23:10:19 i only dabble though 23:10:35 just enough today to convert it into sexp, hehe 23:11:06 i wanted the data for some nifty emacs integration I have in mind 23:11:57 I intend to covertly slip as much Lisp into my work environment as possible 23:12:16 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 23:13:05 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-126-222.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:13:14 dangerous though, no one takes my Lisp advocation seriously, even my team leader gave the tire old lthp jokes 23:13:21 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:13:35 which I must say lower my opinion of him more than I expected 23:16:18 if I wanted to do something like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125385 23:16:40 would I need a code walker through the &body 23:17:19 I don't think I will bother with that particular form, but I'm just curious 23:17:34 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:14 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:18:14 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:18:14 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:18:34 -!- tmh [6367f896@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/tmh] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 23:20:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:20:16 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-44.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 23:20:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.187.102] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:20:42 -!- Kron is now known as Guest20001 23:24:00 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-126-222.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:26:37 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 23:29:44 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Client Quit] 23:30:57 Guthur: (defmacro with-current-cell ((cell) x y world &body body) `(symbol-macrolet ((,cell `(aref ,world ,x ,y))) ,@body)) 23:31:27 fix it up with once-only etc 23:32:20 oh, that's cool 23:33:10 CL has so much special sauce 23:34:55 -!- nurv101` [~askmefori@a79-169-54-93.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:35:39 above probably need fixing as nesting ` gets hairy, use something like (defmacro with-current-cell (...) `(symbol-macrolet ... ,(expand-cell-ref% ,world ,x ,y)) and then use separate helper function (defun expand-cell-ref% (cell world x y) `(aref ,world ,x ,y)) 23:35:49 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:35:51 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 23:36:04 coz i don't remember the right way to do double ``, its a bit hairy could be ,,stuff but I'm not sure 23:37:00 I'm adding it now, to a different abstraction form 23:37:09 I widened it slightly 23:37:58 maxm-: I don't think you need to quote symbol macro expansions. 23:39:47 maxm-: symbol-macrolet doesn't evaluate the expansions. 23:39:47 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:39:53 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:39:57 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:40:10 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:40:41 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:40:41 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:40:41 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:41:02 #wrongplanet-alt,#overthehill,##belz,#quirkyCarla,#aspietalk 23:41:22 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 23:41:46 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:43:36 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.184.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:43:36 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:58 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125385#1 23:44:04 that's what I have so far 23:44:16 -!- Guest20001 [~Kron@129-97-120-44.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:44:17 pkhuong: your comment is about once-only or ,,stuff? once-only comment was about getting stuff like (with-current-cell ((cell) (incf x).. ..) working right, if you just do straight-forward `(aref ,array ,x), it would get incremeneted as many times as you used `cell' in the @body 23:44:28 I need to check up on the semantics of once-only 23:44:50 but that might have to wait until tomorrow 23:45:09 I haven't tested yet, so it may be borked in ways I have not seen 23:45:19 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 23:45:21 so you wanna do really (with-gensyms (xx yy) `(let ((,xx ,x)) ... (symbol-macrolet (cell (aref ... ,xx 23:45:33 once-only is shortcut for above 23:46:08 unless I'm misunderstanding something in a fundamental way that is 23:46:59 I pass in symbols for x and y because I need them to pass to get-neighbour-hood 23:47:29 I'd liked to remove that requirement, but not sure of a nice way without encapsulating the data in cell somehow 23:48:34 tis getting late though 23:49:13 maxm-: no, I'm just confirming Bike's comment. 23:50:29 rpg [~rpg@206.117.31.188] has joined #lisp 23:50:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@206.117.31.188] has quit [Client Quit] 23:52:20 ok, night'll 23:52:20 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:52:32 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.0] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:55 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-80-026.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 23:55:00 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:40 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:55:40 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 23:55:55 -!- njw222 [~njw222@ool-44c70a5c.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:59:28 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving]