00:00:09 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 00:03:15 p_l: FTR this was the paper I had in mind: http://llvm.org/devmtg/2010-11/Sehr-NativeClient.pdf 00:05:04 *p_l* for now would prefer that Chrome was handling WebFonts better, instead of playing with NativeClient 00:06:32 And just so i'm not completely off-topic I read that paper hoping for insight into whether Lisp could target portable native client instead of the LLVM directly. 00:06:46 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:08:25 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5F25.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:09:05 mon_key: I believe ECL might be workable for NaCL already... but I don't have much hopes for Native Client 00:10:00 NaCL? 00:11:21 triliyn: Native Client 00:12:02 p_l: b/c you don't like NaCl or b/c you don't think its realistically possible? 00:12:24 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 00:12:29 Can't resist... Import from future: (defun discriminate (predicate list) (map '(values list list) #'values `(discriminate ,predicate ,list))) 00:12:33 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-199-235.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 00:12:35 (As opposed to: (defun discriminate (predicate list) (loop for item in list if (funcall predicate item collect item into a else collect item into b finally (return (values a b)))))) 00:12:43 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 00:13:03 Oops, the function shouldn't be called discriminate I guess ;) 00:13:06 mon_key: I don't really like it, and so far I see it more as a toy. x86 is a horrible platform as generic target 00:13:54 p_l: Fair enough :) 00:13:56 Oh, well actually that would work because the DEFUN and enumerator namespaces are different... 00:14:35 mon_key: llvm's bytecode and some API over safe channel would be IMHO much better 00:15:33 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:16:15 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-135-228.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:16:46 p_l: the bytecode thing is mostly what intrigued me about that paper. Having only recently learned about GG's protocol buffers i would guess targetting those would be generally more prudent for Lisp. 00:17:34 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:18:47 -!- wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:20:58 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:21:57 lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 00:22:00 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22:03 -!- dontbehero [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:22:42 damn, I don't feel like sleeping... 00:22:55 -!- lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 00:22:55 or rather, if I go to sleep, I'm unsure I'll wake up on time 00:22:57 damn 00:24:07 dontbehero [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:24:11 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:24:20 lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] 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[Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:39:08 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.117.60] has joined #lisp 03:43:35 devils [devil@user-2inik3l.dialup.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 03:44:55 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:54:19 fe[nl]ix: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125288 03:56:09 SBCL's condition variables are implemented using waitqueues, where CCL's are simple semaphores. Thus the behavior difference. What is the easiest fix? 03:56:40 -!- Guest39040 [~Kron@69.166.20.161] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 03:56:59 oconnore: use condition variables right. 03:57:37 pkhuong: Please explain? 03:57:46 oconnore: that's why there's a lock around condition variables: so that you can check a flag or other conditions before waiting on the condition variable. 03:58:07 And, similarly, so that you can change the flag or condition before signalling it. 03:58:45 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082B2B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:19 pkhuong: That doesn't change the fact that the behavior is different across platforms. Why not just use sbcl semaphores and present a uniform behavior? And if you aren't going to do any of those checks, why not just export the raw semaphore interface? 04:01:37 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B3260A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:02:12 oconnore: SBCL's condition variables implement condition variables. 04:02:16 If you want semaphores, use semaphores. 04:02:40 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:53 pkhuong: I don't think you understand the meaning of a cross platform library... 04:03:37 oconnore: you're not using condition variables as you're supposed to. 04:03:59 That some implementation works despite your misusage is irrelevant. 04:04:00 oconnore: CCL-like spurious wakeup *are* allowed for conditional variables. That's just part of their "contract" 04:04:32 superflit [~superflit@71-208-217-71.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:06 still, bordeaux-threads seem to have a lost wakeup possibility on CCL, and *that* is wrong. 04:06:17 pkhuong: You don't even know how I'm using them. It really doesn't matter what SBCL does, it matters what bordeaux-threads does. In this case, what it does is inconsistent and not documented. 04:06:37 -!- rcharle2 [~rcharles@dhcp145.gradapt1.iit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:06:56 oconnore: both behaviours are fully consistent with the interface definition of condition variables. 04:07:14 oconnore: the difference only shows up because you misuse them. 04:07:38 akovalenko: you mean wrt broadcast? Not necessarily. There could be a semaphore for signal and an epoch for broadcast. 04:08:21 pkhuong: of course there _could_. But I'm looking at bt code right row, and guess what?.. 04:08:27 rcharle2 [~rcharles@dhcp220.eastfowl2.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 04:08:51 -!- devils [devil@user-2inik3l.dialup.mindspring.com] has quit [K-Lined] 04:09:35 akovalenko: ah.. so CCL doesn't expose the mach's semaphores-but-mostly-a-condition-variable. Too bad. 04:11:32 pkhuong: The current behavior explicitly violates the bordeaux-thread manual. "condition-notify (condition-variable) Notify at least one of the threads waiting for CONDITION-VARIABLE." That is not true. It can notify a thread that is not currently waiting. Therefore the behavior is not consistent with the interface definition as specified by the manual. 04:11:35 pkhuong: generally, I don't rush to accuse people of bugs when I neither saw a code nor experienced a bug. Maybe ccl semaphores really aren't (then they have a most misguiding name ever), but... 04:12:03 oconnore: "at least one thread". It says nothing about other threads. 04:12:17 oconnore: spurious wake ups are allowed and do happen in practice. 04:12:25 pkhuong: heh, not a bug then (bt API has no broadcast :) 04:13:15 -!- turnipseed [~cmsimon@50.43.55.69] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:13:40 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:14:25 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:16:36 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:17:54 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:20:21 -!- bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:20:40 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:23:28 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 04:24:06 -!- rootzlevel [~hpd@static.6.236.40.188.clients.your-server.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:25:49 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.178.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:26:12 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:39 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-133-16.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:51 devildue [~njdevils@pool-173-67-162-72.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:12 -!- devildue is now known as roodytood 04:31:14 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:33:58 -!- roodytood [~njdevils@pool-173-67-162-72.hrbgpa.east.verizon.net] has quit [K-Lined] 04:42:21 sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:44 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-133-16.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 04:43:01 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:01 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@118.45.149.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:43:56 -!- sodel [~dralston@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:48:58 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 04:52:19 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:53:42 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:56:11 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 04:56:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:56:47 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:20 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-isbgrsszhgohilin] has joined #lisp 04:59:20 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-isbgrsszhgohilin] has quit [Changing host] 04:59:20 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:01:19 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 05:02:32 -!- hikarudo [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: hikarudo] 05:04:13 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDDF6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:29 ... I go through various JS tools to use for my CL project and get depressed looking at amount of stuff that has extra components in rails 05:09:03 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:14:15 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:14:23 -!- bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:14:47 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:15:00 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:15:13 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:17:47 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:17:50 setmeaway [setmeaway3@118.45.149.199] has joined #lisp 05:19:37 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 05:19:44 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:22:26 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 05:23:30 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:25:08 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:25:20 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:26:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:27:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:29:06 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:29:07 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.117.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:29:39 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 05:30:32 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:30:50 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fxmjlfeuqlpxzswf] has joined #lisp 05:31:03 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:31:49 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:32:14 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 05:35:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:36:38 chrnybo [~user@ti0061a380-dhcp0345.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 05:37:02 Good morning. 05:37:56 Would it be weird to add a print-method for printing an object with html formatting? 05:38:20 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 05:38:50 print-object would be weird place to do that... maybe with layered methods, though - define a new layer that switches over to HTML 05:39:20 chrnybo: the default methods wouldn't print to html. 05:40:32 cnl [~cnl@95.106.11.104] has joined #lisp 05:40:41 better define your own protocol such stuff, and adhere to it 05:41:01 I imagined changing the stream to a stream-with-html-mixin and specializing on that s-w-h-m. 05:42:24 p_l: somewhere else in our code tree, I saw a solution with a global var specifying how to print stuff, and a cond within the print method obeying that global var. 05:43:34 p_l: where "our code tree" means the code I work on at work, aka Espen Vestres K2. 05:44:46 -!- rcharle2 [~rcharles@dhcp220.eastfowl2.iit.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:44:59 chrnybo: you can't specialize on the stream. 05:45:08 rcharle2 [~rcharles@dhcp145.gradapt1.iit.edu] has joined #lisp 05:45:23 chrnybo: not good, IMHO 05:45:26 pkhuong: That narrows the options... 05:45:39 Wait, you can't? Why not? 05:45:45 Oh, because it's optional? 05:46:23 triliyn: because the spec says so; implementations are free to substitute another stream in at any point. 05:46:32 Ah, okay 05:46:43 Can you specialize on optional arguments then? 05:46:55 How does it tell that apart from supplying a default? 05:47:11 in practice, it's also useful to simplify method dispatch on print-object, which is a good thing when the system is nearly fubared. 05:47:12 Or was that "ALSO because the spec says so"? 05:47:34 triliyn: you can't specialize on optional arguments at all. print-object does not have optional arguments. 05:47:34 hehe 05:47:48 OH, right. I was thinking of print. 05:48:31 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:50:21 Thanks, guys. 05:53:31 -!- anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 05:53:46 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 05:53:48 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-izonadfusfpggwmo] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:54:25 H4ns [5b3d436c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.67.108] has joined #lisp 05:54:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:55:14 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 05:55:19 esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:52 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:56:57 Hi everyone, I am trying to get hold of the really awesome lisp machine videos Rainer Joswig made. Sadly lispm.dyndns.org is down as well as other mirrors that I could find in cliki. Does any one of you by any chance have those videos stored somewhere? 05:57:44 cgo [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:20 There is one video with sound on http://lemonodor.com/archives/000441.html but it is not exactly the one that I was looking for. 05:58:48 rainer is active on the internets, maybe inquire on reddit in lisp 05:59:48 yeah good idea. But I think I may have found something: http://ftp.linux.org.uk/pub/lisp/lispm/ 06:00:30 yes limpm-2.mov is the right one! 06:00:37 sorry for interrupting. :D 06:01:01 DataLinkDKT [~DataLinkD@58.171.64.251] has joined #lisp 06:02:01 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uoxugbsbeuebphxb] has joined #lisp 06:02:08 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.84.5] has joined #lisp 06:02:28 -!- DataLinkDKT [~DataLinkD@58.171.64.251] has quit [Client Quit] 06:02:43 hugod [~hugod@70.24.179.235] has joined #lisp 06:06:29 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 06:06:48 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:01 -!- cgo [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:08:32 wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.83.232] has joined #lisp 06:10:23 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:11:07 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.55] has joined #lisp 06:11:34 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 06:12:22 kenjin2202 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has joined #lisp 06:12:56 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-21.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:14:00 -!- triliyn [~desmond@76-206-56-151.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:16:07 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-uoxugbsbeuebphxb] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:17:32 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pacqmbvbxmccyhvm] has joined #lisp 06:21:44 is Let Over Lambda a book most CL coders should have in their library, or is it just a nice to have? 06:22:16 Guthur: i'd not even label it "nice to have", but it has got some favorable reviews, too. 06:23:26 Guthur: to me, it fits into the "grotesque and freakish" section 06:24:02 H4ns: oh, yeah it was the reviews that were selling it to me 06:24:17 a bit sheep like i know 06:25:00 Guthur: "on lisp" is pretty much a prerequisite to lol, and you'll need to understand on lisp in a particular way to get something out of lol. 06:25:02 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110.174.168.43] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:25:04 I'm actually going to get LiSP next anyway, but spotted LoL and was wondering if I should pencil it in 06:25:39 Guthur: lisp is nice if you want to understand compiler internals. if you enjoy that, you might enjoy lol, too :) 06:26:21 yeah, I wanted LiSP for the compiler slant 06:27:48 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 06:28:02 LiSP blows quite a bit of my book budget anyway 06:28:29 knowledge is so darn expensive 06:29:21 yeah, technical book in any field are expensive 06:29:30 books* 06:32:44 -!- kenjin2202 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:32:44 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@163.152.84.68] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:39:45 -!- chrnybo [~user@ti0061a380-dhcp0345.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:40:53 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:42:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:44:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 06:44:57 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:46:03 good morning 06:54:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-21.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:54:50 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.55] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:58:23 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:59:07 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 06:59:56 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.51.30] has joined #lisp 07:00:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.51.30] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:03:12 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:05:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 07:06:00 poindont` [~user@cloudbovina.bovinasancta.com] has joined #lisp 07:06:27 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:07:44 X-Scale [email@89.180.161.45] has joined #lisp 07:08:09 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest67381 07:09:03 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:09:10 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:09:44 -!- maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:13:36 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:13:58 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-223-23.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 07:16:20 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:16:42 KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 07:19:56 Harag [~phil@41.146.231.191] has joined #lisp 07:23:20 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 07:23:28 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:25:37 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:26:30 what is LiSP? 07:26:57 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:28:07 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-199-235.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 07:28:49 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:29:03 gensym: a #1=(programmable #1#) programming language 07:29:04 lisp in small pieces 07:29:08 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.13.214] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 07:29:49 http://pagesperso-systeme.lip6.fr/Christian.Queinnec/WWW/LiSP.html 07:29:54 gensym: ^ 07:30:00 Shaftoe_ [~memet@46.196.29.0] has joined #lisp 07:30:41 Hi all, I'm trying to hack Edi Weitz' documentation-template library to do some auto-doxing, and I've run into a pickle: 07:31:03 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-83-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:31:17 documentation-template iterates through the external symbols using do-external-symbols macro 07:31:54 I changed that to do-symbols :my-package instead to see if I could get an internal documentation of the project 07:32:23 but this also catches all symbols that have been merged via the :use declaration in the defpackage 07:32:37 any ideas on a way around this? 07:33:06 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-65-71.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:33:06 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-65-71.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:33:06 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:33:17 C-Keen: ah, thanks! 07:33:55 this is more of a pie in the sky question, ala could this be done theoretically thing... I know I can find many alternative documentation generators 07:34:07 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-156-17.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:35:16 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.5.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:35:22 Shaftoe_: symbol-package. 07:35:45 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:36:22 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:36:22 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:36:27 pkhuong: that's exactly what! 07:36:30 thanks =) 07:36:37 -!- Guest67381 [email@89.180.161.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37:09 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-66-139.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:12 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:37:16 theBlackDragon_ [~user@212.123.24.66] has joined #lisp 07:38:07 Guest67381 [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:08 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.45] has joined #lisp 07:41:03 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 07:41:06 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:42:13 maxm- [~user@p84-72.acedsl.com] has joined #lisp 07:42:58 good morning everyone 07:43:12 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pj2NOTanzWI#t=1m17s 07:51:23 Patzy_ [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 07:51:57 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:56:51 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.45] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:00:40 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:03:30 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.45] has joined #lisp 08:03:54 nostoi [~nostoi@4.Red-79-151-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:10:27 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 08:11:40 -!- Shaftoe_ [~memet@46.196.29.0] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 08:14:33 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:17:21 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:18:46 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:18:54 printf("Goodbye world.\n"); /* :-( */ 08:19:13 dmr died 08:19:41 p_l: what you don't say ... hacker news looks much like it did a week ago with steve jobs 08:20:29 indeed 08:20:29 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-bjntcodjyfaeuutt] has joined #lisp 08:22:30 ... to think that it wasn't so long ago that I've seen replies from dmr to a thread I monitored >_< 08:25:58 -!- Guest67381 is now known as X-Scale 08:28:09 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:29:17 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:29:47 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: I need my meds... >.<] 08:30:29 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:31:45 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-214-83.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:31:45 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:32:12 darkerberos [~darkerber@2001:2f8:1c:a515:20b:dbff:fe51:33b7] has joined #lisp 08:32:31 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:22 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:42 Amyn1 [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has joined #lisp 08:39:54 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 08:39:56 morning all 08:40:15 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:41:00 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:44:55 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@4.Red-79-151-42.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:45:08 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:45:44 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:47:17 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rlrqmgqbvxplkgut] has joined #lisp 08:52:27 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:53:02 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:54:05 -!- gry [user@freenode/staff/gry] has left #lisp 08:57:24 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:58:36 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 08:58:45 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 08:59:56 -!- malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-199-235.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: malbertife] 09:04:36 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-44-207.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:33 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 09:07:16 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 09:10:27 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:12:14 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:14:49 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:20:36 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:21:15 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:26:18 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:29:52 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 09:30:39 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:33:36 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Client Quit] 09:37:18 dmiles [dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 09:37:50 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:38:54 msponge [~msponge@31-35-221.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 09:39:48 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:54 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:43:37 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 09:43:43 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.73.223.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44:59 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.100.120] has joined #lisp 09:46:16 hmm, is there a variant of C-c C-y in slime that inserts the defun (or def{generic,method,macro}, define-compiler-macro) at point? 09:46:54 example use case: i use C-c C-y to insert a defun; the point in the reply is now at (my-function []) 09:47:32 i'd like to be able to then switch back to my code buffer and hit some similar chord such that the next insert is at that position; at the moment, the insert is at the beginning of that input line, so i get (my-other-function [])(my-function ) 09:47:41 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-133-16.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:43 desired: (my-function (my-other-function [])) 09:48:20 s/reply/repl/ 09:49:46 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 09:49:54 cfa: I don't know emacs, but how about starting with the inner function? 09:50:12 -!- H4ns [5b3d436c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.67.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:50:35 i could certainly do that (and did when i realised i wasn't inserting at point) 09:50:46 but still, we end up with (...)(...) rather than (... (...)) 09:51:31 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.83.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:51:43 well, the vim paredit has some key binding to move forms around ... so perhaps emacs has something like "make enclosing form"? 09:53:07 i'll dig around the slime docs and see whether there's an insert-at-point 09:53:15 if not, i'll just write one; that's probably easiest 09:54:22 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bufwvlgldvfcscri] has joined #lisp 09:54:22 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-bufwvlgldvfcscri] has quit [Changing host] 09:54:22 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:56:39 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:58:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-170-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:00:03 -!- msponge [~msponge@31-35-221.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 10:02:07 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection 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[~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pacqmbvbxmccyhvm] has left #lisp 11:31:57 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 11:35:46 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:37:47 _deepfire [~deepfire@80.92.100.69] has joined #lisp 11:37:49 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:57 <_deepfire> Good day, folks. 11:38:25 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 11:38:55 <_deepfire> Can someone explain me the role of 'parts'/*inspectee-parts* in the swank model of things? 11:40:43 <_deepfire> Grep yields only references to the latter -- no bindings. 11:42:19 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:42:37 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.45] has joined #lisp 11:46:10 -!- Amyn1 [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:47:43 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 11:48:15 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:23 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:48:27 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-66-139.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:53:57 Amyn [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has joined #lisp 11:55:33 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:03 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:52 jp_larocque [jabber-irc@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has joined #lisp 12:10:34 -!- jp_larocque [jabber-irc@number-41.thoughtcrime.us] has left #lisp 12:10:45 <_deepfire> Alright, looks like I figured it out from swankr. 12:12:01 <_deepfire> Dreadfully quiet it is here, isn't it? 12:12:08 Too busy hacking. 12:12:55 aye 12:15:26 ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has joined #lisp 12:15:53 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:17:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:13 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:19:33 tsuru [~charlie@50.9.237.217] has joined #lisp 12:24:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has joined #lisp 12:26:10 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 12:26:19 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:27:10 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:27:19 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.12.129] has joined #lisp 12:28:18 leyyer_su [~user@222.211.245.240] has joined #lisp 12:30:07 ehu` [~ehuels@109.38.145.204] has joined #lisp 12:30:19 Joreji [~thomas@74-112.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:30:33 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 12:32:19 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.12.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:38:11 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:46:56 -!- H4ns [2e7319a0@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.115.25.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:47:26 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:42 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:52:36 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 12:56:52 H4ns [4ffc849c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.132.156] has joined #lisp 12:58:17 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:01:39 hi 13:01:58 btw, anyone here knows the Hoare logic and loop invariants ? 13:02:24 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:02:42 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:02:46 gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-191-181.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:48 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@YZMCDXL.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:04:31 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-217-71.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:06:02 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:08:02 _deepfire: figuring out what to make related to C as a tribute to dmr 13:10:58 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 13:11:15 p_l: buy a phone from AT&T with a unix system programmed in C? 13:11:56 pjb: no AT&T here 13:12:09 (and no money) 13:12:41 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:13:05 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 13:14:32 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:14:44 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:14:53 Write a nice program in C? 13:15:22 or write a nice program in lisp, but use ecl 13:15:36 pjb: that's the current plan... or possibly abusing C as portable assembler, something that the authors actually suggested :) 13:17:04 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:17:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:25 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:20:50 tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:25:35 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-191-181.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 13:26:40 hakzsam: what do you mean? proving some algorithms with the Hoare logic? 13:26:40 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:42 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:27:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has joined #lisp 13:28:49 hello, I've a java web application in which I want to add some lisp scripting. I'm in doubt between ABCL and Clojure. Which oen would you suggest ? 13:29:06 kiuma: ABCL 13:29:19 abcl 13:29:22 kiuma: the topic of #lisp is common lisp, i think you should know that by now. 13:29:27 gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-191-181.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:32 Xach, fine! 13:29:52 kiuma: go to #clojure, ask the same question, get the other response. 13:30:34 You should actually extend your application in javascript by embedding first ABCL and then cl-javascript. 13:31:00 well H4ns on #clojure they would argue that clojure is someway better, but what I know is CL 13:31:19 then in JS you run the Linux emulator, where you run SBCL 13:31:34 in the sbcl, run cl-python 13:31:59 What about parenscript ? 13:32:29 H4ns: nah....cloak. 13:32:38 then use cloak to run clojure. 13:34:06 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.100.120] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:34:23 daimrod, yes 13:34:53 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 13:34:55 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:35:17 hakzsam: so yes, I've course on it. 13:35:19 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 13:35:57 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:36:11 daimrod, could you give me some help, please ? 13:37:09 what's your problem? 13:38:28 -!- lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:39:31 so, I need to represent a palindrom in logic, do you think that the following representation is correct ? { j = n - 1, forall i  0..j, w(i) = w(j - i) } 13:40:08 Maybe you two could discuss it privately if it is not Lisp-related. 13:41:35 yep 13:43:26 Let's make it lisp related. (defun palindromp (w) (loop with j = (1- (length w)) for i from 0 to j always (eql (aref w i) (aref w (- j i))))) 13:44:17 segyr [~segyr@230.85-200-233.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 13:44:18 hakzsam: So now, what's your question? 13:44:44 15:44 *** NAMES segyr cheezus sanjoyd gavinharper realitygrill kiuma tsuru` Davidbrcz ramusara dnolen otakutomo H4ns juniorroy FreeArtMan Joreji ehu` leyyer_su replore_ mishoo_ tsuru ignas Amyn hakzsam Nshag xyxu ch077179 ngz _deepfire ccorn rootzlevel anonchik oudeis EyesIsServer newcup ramus Odin- oiiii katesmith wolfpython X-Scale dmiles ski_ nha gienah c_arenz Athas Soulman cfa wormwood gcentauri darkerberos e-us 13:44:44 er ZabaQ lbc ``Erik Patzy_ maxm- theBlackDragon_ aerique insomniaSalt Salamander_ spacefrogg Blkt Harag KingNato kennyd varjag poindont` jdz mvilleneuve BlankVerse tritchey hugod sdemarre esden rcharle2 cnl gensym a7p em mcsontos Spion AntiSpamMeta setmeaway bieber cyrillos manuel_ Khisanth antifuchs tali713 daniel___ el-maxo Jasko2 prip gaidal kleppari dontbehero krl billstclair kruft borkman Jasko anvandare parabol 13:44:44 ize sellout duomo Euthy CallToPower Euthydemus easyE ecraven paul0 syrinx_ benny McMAGIC--Copy kpreid xharkonnen surrounder sid3k Krystof nicdev_ fe[nl]ix alvis theBlackDragon reb`` abeaumont zenlunatic karswell dRbiG Ralith wtetzner lnostdal The_third_man Vivitron __main__ vert2 Oddity flip214 Vutral Xach mtd s0ber loderunner tic kooll alanpearce peterhil deepfire mathrick Tristam ianmcorvidae levi pchrist clog Quet 13:44:44 zalcoatl_ limetree_ spacebat sbryant- BrianRice df lonstein whoops hyoyoung lemoinem lnostdal_ jasom easytiger cpt_nemo quasisane ilmari vhost- tty234 housel loke quackv4 schme rgrinberg acelent` nowhere_man petekaz venk TristamWrk hlavaty wormphlegm blackwolf JuanDaugherty ihyoyoung Quadrescence vpit3833 Kovensky nuba Posterdati Demosthenes grouzen churib` PissedNumlock araujo neena zakwilson tessier eli lusory cmbn 13:44:44 tr elliottcable rotty Intensity dfox macrobat cmatei guther xristos p_l wccoder djanatyn Tasser clop2 pjb eno xale Borbus CrazyEddy pinterface joast dodecahedron cmm ccl-logbot foocraft tempire scode_ Dodek otwieracz micro kruhft bobbysmith007 MasseR arbscht antoszka Phoodus kpal samebchase tvaalen Aisling finnrobi frodef hyko Xof luis boyscared guaqua fmu Zhivago trigen djinni` joshe dsp_ allandee OliverUv_ zvrba j_ 13:44:44 king ineiros derrida bfein Obfuscate morphling phryk Iceland_jack Zephyrus Fade |3b| acieroid mornfall Saeren StrmSrfr Mandus srid literal rsynnott larva yahooooo galdor df_aldur albino Bucciarati yan_ felipe setheus_ yroeht vsync gemelen mikejs erg churib _krappie_ elliottjohnson z0d tomaw markskilbeck nullman` sshirokov Jabberwockey mal stepnem kjellkt psyllo dcrawford _3b DrForr felideon kanru sausages johs proces 13:44:44 s phadthai scharan gkeith_lt cataska Tordek mgr mon_key ve shachaf MikeSeth devhost herbieB_ aoh cods klutometis pkhuong schoppenhauer Yamazaki-kun daedric Adrinael daimrod naryl jeekl jrockway foom Axioplase_ cYmen adeht redline6561 oGMo SpitfireWP zbigniew wivlaro bigjust froggey jsnell Pepe_ C-Keen tychoish pok_ kloeri freiksenet rabite njan 13:44:49 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Xach 13:44:50 oh fun 13:44:58 -!- segyr [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has been kicked from #lisp by Xach (oops?) 13:44:59 Xach, fatality! 13:45:07 yeah 13:45:11 what the hell it was? 13:45:24 Thank you Xach 13:45:24 look like a misuse of an emacs irc client 13:45:28 jerk or mispaste 13:45:43 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-ycukvekmgmgfwljq] has joined #lisp 13:45:48 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:45:55 Xach thank you 13:45:57 aw, and I thought someone wanted to talk to me in this channel :( 13:46:10 pjb, my question is : how to represent a palindrome in logic ? 13:46:15 ignas, forever alone 13:46:28 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.51.30] has joined #lisp 13:46:43 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 13:46:54 hakzsam: you almost wrote it. Just write a real set: {w|...} 13:46:56 disregard ladies, acquire parenthesis? 13:47:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:02 pjb, a real set, what do you mean by that ? 13:48:08 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has joined #lisp 13:48:21 -!- Xach has set mode -o Xach 13:48:38 I'm sure it was just a mispaste. Happens to everyone now and then. 13:48:39 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:42 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:43 hakzsam: syntactically, what you wrote is just a predicate surrounded by brace, it's not a recognized mathematical notation. 13:48:48 Funny how it made some idlers speak up. 13:48:58 hakzsam: in maths, braces are usually used to write sets. 13:49:24 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has joined #lisp 13:49:27 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:49:27 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 13:49:41 hakzsam: { w | j = n - 1, forall i  0..j, w(i) = w(j - i) } defines the set of all w such as j = n - 1, forall i  0..j, w(i) = w(j - i), which is the set of palindromos. 13:49:47 s/mos/ms/ 13:51:54 pjb, thanks, but I'm not sure to correctly understand what is the "w | " stuff 13:52:11 Me neither. If only it looked more like lisp :( 13:52:11 I translated the notation into English. What more can I do? 13:52:19 akovalenko [~anton@95.72.100.120] has joined #lisp 13:52:23 pjb: Translate it to Lisp! 13:52:30 I did it too earlier! 13:52:40 ok :] 13:53:02 hakzsam: | is read "such that" 13:53:25 ok, I understand now 13:54:40 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.5.83] has joined #lisp 13:57:21 blah 13:57:31 I got out of bed for that ass! 13:57:46 *markskilbeck* goes back to bed 13:58:22 wake up neo 13:58:33 turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 13:58:38 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.187.102] has joined #lisp 13:58:55 Xach: I'm no idler. I'm a lurker. Busy working here, until somebody mentions me 13:59:23 ;) 14:04:12 -!- turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:04:32 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 14:06:36 billstclair: false alarm 14:06:53 I noticed 14:07:20 no, i was signa... never mind 14:07:35 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:08:01 -!- Kron is now known as Guest31915 14:08:37 turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:02 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:09:39 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:42 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:10:22 sonnym [~sonny@72.43.20.246] has joined #lisp 14:12:17 msponge [~msponge@31-35-221.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has joined #lisp 14:12:34 -!- dmiles [dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:12:45 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fxmjlfeuqlpxzswf] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:12 dmiles_afk [dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-033.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 14:13:17 Soulman1 [~knute@80.202.238.175] has joined #lisp 14:13:31 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:14:52 tritchey [~tritchey@c-68-51-88-12.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:17:13 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-44-207.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:18:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:18:52 Davidbrcz [~david@193.54.120.175] has joined #lisp 14:23:52 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-191-181.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 14:27:44 markskil1eck [~mark@host86-137-67-204.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:29:53 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:01 G'morning all. 14:30:10 hey nyef 14:30:20 Anything going on? 14:30:36 not too much, quite quiet 14:32:04 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 14:32:04 nyef: it is almost time for the European CL meeting. 14:32:11 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-45.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:12 Ah, wonderful! 14:32:31 So there might be more lisp stuff to read soon? 14:33:41 Maybe! 14:33:45 wbooze [~levgue@78.35.180.45] has joined #lisp 14:34:05 Are we safe from homework questions yet? :-) 14:34:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:34:58 We'll never be safe from homework questions. But they tend to be easy to recognize and can be fun to mess about with while not outright answering them. 14:35:11 *nyef* remembers "DFS return path" fondly. 14:36:46 "What you really want to count the atoms in that list is CLOS" 14:37:32 No, no... But competing to find the textually-shortest solution without reporting what the solutions are was done once. 14:37:47 "Two lines, 48 characters." 14:37:52 Something like that. 14:38:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 14:39:04 is there a way to delete asdf system from its memory? Ie I have asdf system, but want to replace it with quickload one, I rm -rf'ed the directory but (ql:) still tries to load it from old location 14:39:14 I remember doing this with asdf1, but forgot how 14:39:31 maxm-: asdf:delete-system? 14:39:47 flip214: does not seem to exist in asdf2 14:40:08 ah, clear-system 14:40:09 ... asdf2:delete-system? (-: 14:40:26 ah doh...damn non-standard naming conventions 14:40:56 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.176] has joined #lisp 14:41:07 maxm-: asdf:clear-system 14:42:12 eh ? what is asdf2 ? 14:42:17 is there a new version out ? 14:42:22 hmm does not work, after doing clear-system (which returned t), and subsequent calls return nil, (ql:quickload) still does: Error while trying to load definition for system from pathname ...old-path... 14:42:31 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:42:48 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:43:38 maxm-: what does (asdf:find-system "foo") do? 14:43:42 wbooze: (featurep :asdf2) if your version is old one, you'll be pleasently surprised, it became lots faster (but code even more incomprehensible) 14:44:25 maxm-: you might need to put *default-pathname-defaults* on your asdf:*central-registry* 14:44:28 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 14:44:32 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 14:44:36 Xach: find-system throws same error (unable to load system .asd file from its rm -rf'ed location), system-registered-p :system returns nil nil 14:45:04 maxm-: hmm. i wonder what's up. that isn't what i'd expect under normal circumstances. 14:45:11 maxm-: in my experience, clear-system works pretty well. 14:45:16 Xach: testcase is, I had named-readtables with asdf (in its regular registry), I did rm -rf on that directory, followed by clear-system, followed by quickload 14:45:38 well I'll just restart, was doing whole thing since got tired of restarting 14:46:08 *Xach* scratches head, chin 14:46:29 maxm: no featurep here.... 14:46:35 maxm: i'm on sbcl 14:47:06 maxm: i think i have the old one anyway... 14:47:14 wbooze: SBCL includes asdf2 for some time (read changelog).. You have older asdf.lisp loaded from somewhere. 14:48:24 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:48:26 maxm-: no, wbooze was confused by your use of the function-looking (featurep ...) form. 14:48:33 Amyn1 [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has joined #lisp 14:49:42 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:49:55 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 14:50:02 doh (featurep) is apparently alexandria, not CL 14:50:56 -!- Amyn [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:51:12 oh ok 14:51:19 wbooze: try typing "#+asdf2 t" (without quotes) instead, if it prints t you have it 14:51:42 hikarudo [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:51:42 ok, i have (alexandria:featurep :asdf2) T 14:52:10 then you have it already.. Guess you never used asdf1, the speed difference is quite noticable 14:52:11 -!- msponge [~msponge@31-35-221.wireless.csail.mit.edu] has quit [Quit: msponge] 14:52:22 yes #+asdf2 t in the repl gets me T too 14:52:57 *Xach* has not noticed :( 14:53:09 i somehow didn't notice the change too..... 14:53:29 i thought the updated one was from quicklisp.... 14:53:55 and it always warned me about upgrading to asdf2 or so, i remember.... 14:53:58 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:05 ... how old is your SBCL? 14:57:38 ... are you pulling in a new ASDF from SBCL, then an old one from elsewhere, then a new one again from quicklisp? 14:57:47 pjb, it's possible to talk with you in private about logic representation ? 14:57:51 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:59:17 no no that was on debian, the distro packages somehow installed a version which was always asdf1 or so. ....and the quicklisp one there would upgrade on the fly to the 2nd version....but now i'm on slack, and my sbcl is new and i don't have a distro asdf installed...so there's no messages about upgrading to version 2 when loading quicklisp.... 15:00:12 ... what you get for using distro packages for lisp stuff, I guess... 15:01:21 well even on debian i gave up using distro packages for lisp stuff, but it was somehow hard....the package manager was pulling in some either way, just by installing sbcl package or so..... 15:01:29 -!- theBlackDragon_ [~user@212.123.24.66] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:01:56 Mmm. I found that something in texlive pulls in clisp, typically on a platform where it doesn't actually work. 15:02:47 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 15:02:47 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:03:03 texlive caused me a lot of trouble when trying to build docs for quicklisp projects 15:03:06 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:03:11 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:03:24 in the sense that it did not work all the time and seemed to need more stuff, despite downloading 300+MB 15:03:31 Ouch. 15:03:56 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:04:30 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.83.232] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:05:03 tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:06:01 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:06:03 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:08 *dl* installed SBCL via the package manager on a new Ubuntu machine, then quickly uninstalled it once he found how ancient it was! :P 15:06:21 *dl* was disappointed! 15:06:27 nyef: xindy needs clisp 15:06:34 arch still has 1.0.51 15:06:36 fe[nl]ix: And I don't need xindy. 15:07:11 fe[nl]ix: And how "need" is need, anyway? Does it only work on clisp, or is it that they only compiled it for clisp? 15:07:18 debian maintainers seem to think otherwise :D 15:07:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:07:40 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 15:07:56 xindy itself is only "recommended", not a hard dependency. 15:07:59 xindy uses clisp-only stuff 15:08:00
... yes, debian is /very/ conservative with upgrades, but I thought Ubuntu was trying to be more bleeding edge 15:08:21 dl: i find it much less hassle to get it straight from sbcl.org 15:08:27 *dl* likes Debian a lot: except for the lisp support :P 15:08:35 But realizing that it just got installed, and brought in some god-awful c-l-c crap... ugh. 15:09:02
Xach: thats what I do to, but I was /hoping/ that 'apt-get install sbcl' would save me some time (instead it wasted time :P :) 15:09:04 nyef: it would probably be possible to port it to cffi+osicat 15:09:18 samebchase_ [75d37b3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.211.123.62] has joined #lisp 15:09:35 Mmm. Not worth my time. As I said, I don't need xindy. 15:09:41 dl: it would be nice if something like that worked the way that helped more than it hurt. 15:10:03 *dl* is just bitching about the SBCL packages I've seen: Mac Ports, however, has 1.0.51 15:10:12
Xach: yes! 15:10:25 ... Isn't 1.0.51 outdated, though? 15:10:48
Xach: IMHO, their sbcl package should either be kept modern or removed :P 15:10:58
nyef: yes, but it's not /ancient/ history either 15:12:15 Fair enough. 15:12:16 -!- dontbehero [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:12:29 I still have a .28 or .23 around that I use as a build host. 15:12:45 ubuntu rev'd today, and as of now, the sbcl is 1.0.50 15:13:02
I find it rare that I need the absolute latest SBCL, but quite often I need one that is less than a year old for whatever reason :) 15:13:06 superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-192.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:09 *Xach* uses 1.0.6 for wigflip 15:13:39
Fade: cool! I'll have to go around and upgrade (1.0.50 isn't that bad either IMO) 15:14:03
... of course, I'll install from sbcl.org on the machines I use a lot :) 15:14:10 dontbehero [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:15:16 *Xach* wonders about setting up an apt repo just for lisp stuff 15:15:24 *Xach* decides plate is full for now 15:15:57 Yuuhi [benni@p54839B7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:16:25 -!- prip [~foo@host233-122-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:17:00
Xach: that is a great idea! 15:17:05 *dl* 's plate is full too :( 15:17:56
... a YUM repo would be nice too 15:18:17 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@193.54.120.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:18:22 *dl* is stuck with plenty of non-Debian/Ubuntu Linux boxes 15:18:41 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-241-163.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:44 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:21:07 -!- Guest31915 [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:55 i only ever use the packaged sbcl to bootstrap whatever is tagged most recently in git. 15:22:03 on a new machine. 15:22:44 but .50 is only a month old, so that's pretty good. 15:22:45 i use the binary one, to bootstrap the one from the latest sources..... 15:23:00 the latest binary.... 15:23:45 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:24:13 Fade: compressed cores! 15:24:33 it's true. compressed cores is my favourite new feature in... ages. 15:25:05 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:06 I thought core size didn't matter. 15:25:13 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:17 That's what we've been telling lisp noobs all these years 15:25:23 but people are scared of big files! 15:25:29 dlowe: Speak for yourself! 15:25:35 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-179.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:25:35 *dlowe* never said that. 15:26:01 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:26:02 it makes shipping executable binaries instead of sources with executable build recipes much much easier. :) 15:26:06 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 15:26:09 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-179.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:26:58 anyhow, I think the argument was that core size wasn't a show stopper. 15:27:08 cgo_ [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:10 especially in the presence of bzip2 or gzexe. 15:27:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-45.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:28:09 It's a show stopper because some people are scared of big files. 15:28:25 -!- wbooze [~levgue@78.35.180.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:29:10 It's a show stopper when you need to deliver the app over a narrow pipe. 15:29:11 It would be more comfortable to have a 60MB shared... image and a tiny and crossplatform partial image. 15:29:23 Like Java :] 15:30:00 naryl: concatenate fasls together. it works. 15:30:02 ... riiight. If you're willing to dispense with the "crossplatform" bit, ship fasls. 15:30:06 at least sbcl fasls 15:30:17 dlowe: AIUI, not all lisps allow for concatenated fasls. 15:30:24 if only sbcl fasls L'd FAS'er 15:31:32 oGMo: You up for a challenge? 15:32:05 nyef: plate full sadly ;) 15:32:28 oGMo: Of course it is. And how much of that full plate is because of how slow "fast" loading is? 15:32:36 plus major portions of sbcl probably need changed for that or it'd already be done 15:33:18 nyef: little really, i just build cores 15:33:35 You'd need to work with SYS:SRC;COMPILER;DUMP, SYS:SRC;CODE;FOP, and SYS:SRC;COMPILER;GENERIC;GENESIS. 15:33:39 and have a long-running lisp to dev on 15:33:48 Those are the big three when it comes to the fasl format. 15:35:00 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-179.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:35:11 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-179.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:35:13 being unfamiliar with sbcl internals i'd have a lot more ramp up 15:35:47 Yeah, I figured. 15:35:51 i just know loading fasls on CCL i was worried i'd broken something heh 15:35:58 I bet. 15:36:00 same here on allegro cl 15:36:16 sbcl has the pause that refreshes 15:36:16 ... never really looked into CCL fasl format. I wonder what it's like? 15:36:42 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-205-53.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:36:42 *Xach* enjoys the dylan-related remarks in fop.lisp 15:36:50 Heh. Yeah, those are fun. 15:39:27 Not having a good list of the various fops in numerical order and over time sucks a bit, though. 15:40:04 SMO instrumenting define-fop? 15:40:11 oh, over time. 15:40:25 Yeah. I mean, I'm fairly sure I've changed the format myself at least twice. 15:40:38 And there were some changes when the fopcompiler went in. 15:43:11 ... definitely at least twice. One was fop-maybe-cold-load-must-die, and the other was... fixup encoding, maybe? I know I made the change, I don't know for certain that it went into mainline. 15:43:26 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 15:44:33 Okay, doesn't look like fixup-kind went in. 15:46:09 Here's a SLIME tip I could use: how do I get it to stop saying "Compilation failed. Load fasl file anyway?" 15:46:22 sellout: are you using acl? 15:46:42 H4ns: No, SBCL at the mo, but it also happens with CCL. 15:46:49 sellout: Which way do you want it to go, load automatically, or just shut up and not load it? 15:46:51 sellout: ok. 15:46:59 nyef: The latter. 15:47:11 I never notice it pop up, then I'm like "argh, why can't I fix my code?" 15:47:39 sellout: (setq slime-load-failed-fasl 'never) 15:47:48 or always 15:47:49 oGMo: danke. 15:48:02 hmm I wrote a forwarder for swank::interrupt-worker-thread, so that when Qt gui thread is running and is executing REPL request, it interrupts Qt thread instead 15:48:09 but 15:48:37 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host104-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:48:51 Don't know why I could never find that on my own. 15:48:58 it always require 2 interrupts to do it, that is 1st C-c C-c does nothing, and 2nd C-c C-c correctly produces sldb, with 1 extra level (ie return to sldb level 1) 15:49:00 with slime in the debugger, is there a way to get a repl that is in the dynamic context of the error? 15:49:09 sellout: dunno, i just grep the cvs tree heh 15:49:24 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:49:44 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:49:47 that is if I simply replace (interrupt-worker-thread :repl-thread) call, with (interrupt-worker-thread (swank::thread-id *gui-thread*)) 15:50:11 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:50:12 but when I replace (interrupt-worker-thread) with (bt:interrupt-thread (lambda () (break))), debugger pops up immediately as expected 15:50:38 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:18 hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-166-137-137-066.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:43 weird 15:52:03 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 15:53:17 i guess "B" is the closest that one can get with respect to what i asked for 15:53:45 Mmm. "Use host deBugger", wasn't it? 15:54:16 another slime question: isn't everybody annoyed that when an error is caught by slime and dealt with in slime's debugger, the error is never printed to the repl? 15:54:17 ... which reminds me, is the SBCL debugger still completely useless as a REPL when there's no debug info for the current frame? 15:54:22 nyef: true. 15:54:35 nyef: (for enter host deBugger) 15:54:36 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:55:27 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:59 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:57:28 -!- srid [u3297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vaqhrrcsdjvdmvkt] has left #lisp 15:58:34 there is slime-attach binding in slime-list-threads buffer 15:58:50 never tried it, but maybe it makes thread repl thread? 15:59:12 probably not tho 16:00:38 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:00:44 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-166-137-137-066.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:00:58 Posterdati [~tapioca@host133-226-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:01:21 hm. worth a try 16:01:35 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 16:02:48 yikes, no. the thread inspector is not really usable with this lisp. 16:03:03 francogrex [franco@216.86.77.194] has joined #lisp 16:04:45 well I'm giving up on my slime debugging, something to do with pending-interrupts whatever.. Quit while you ahead, I'm happy enough C-c with commonqt now interrupts the right thread, even tho its with (break).. Only thing missing is it says "break" rather then "Interrupt from emacs" 16:04:48 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:04:58 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-179.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:05:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-179-179.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:08:26 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-21.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:08:42 this is a retarded question (keeping with the trend of my previous questions), suppose I want to add a linked record of 4 bytes variable, next to a 8 bytes float varible in a memory address, how can I do that? 16:09:25 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:09:46 -!- hikarudo [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:09:51 hikarudo [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:10:36 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: going home] 16:10:38 francogrex: ... are you doing FFI stuff? 16:11:53 assuming you use define-alien-type, use :alignment 32 in the slot properties 16:12:04 (time :uint64 :alignment 32) 16:12:05 like so 16:12:16 for cffi I donno 16:13:13 nyef: not really, just good old lisp 16:13:42 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:14:04 ok, then what do you do thinking about bytes etc 16:14:32 maxm-: I didn't have C type in mind 16:14:42 you probably want (defstruct), but I don't think it allows packing sub-cell 16:15:44 I'm trying to think of how to pass blocks of records from the hard disk to the memory 16:15:49 if you concerned about storing gigs of data, your best bet is to store them per column in typed arrays... Ie one array of (unsigned-byte 32) and another one of double-float 16:15:51 (DBMS) 16:16:09 francogrex: check out cl-store 16:16:34 francogrex: (let ((whatever (make-huge-and-complicated-data-structure))) 16:16:39 maxm-: yes I have it installed somewhere 16:16:51 (cl-store:store var "whatever.blob") 16:17:11 -!- hikarudo [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:15 then (cl-store:restore "whatever.blob") 16:17:35 hmm but the "whatever.blob" is a physicla file on disk 16:17:36 hikarudo [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:17:40 if you sure that you have no circular references, it has a global var to indicate that, and it speeds up saving some 16:17:51 hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-166-137-137-066.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 16:18:02 physical 16:18:10 tonyg [~tonyg@173-203-78-111.static.cloud-ips.com] has joined #lisp 16:18:13 well then I don't quite get what you mean by " I'm trying to think of how to pass blocks of records from the hard disk to the memory" 16:18:18 you mean reading existing binary file? 16:18:27 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:52 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:19:11 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 16:19:44 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:04 mmap? 16:22:04 wth 16:22:24 francogrex: this paste contains example of reading binary stuff, floats, double-floats, longs etc... its .pyc file reader. http://paste.lisp.org/+2OOE 16:22:43 I've been known to use READ-SEQUENCE with "block" sized ub8 arrays. 16:23:09 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:23:24 maxm-: that is quite a function 16:23:42 urandom__ [~user@p548A3022.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:47 jikanter1 [~Adium@66.146.192.95] has joined #lisp 16:24:10 maxm-: ... Dear god, split that up a bit! 16:24:26 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:24:35 it was a hacky project 16:25:22 maxm-: For starters, with binary files, you can use FILE-POSITION instead of tracking N-BYTES-READ yourself... 16:25:28 maxm-: maybe what you posted is what I had in mind, but I'll need time to digest it 16:25:45 Which then means you can use READ-BYTE directly instead of wrapping it. 16:26:19 its a performance critical function actually, when it takes 30 minutes decompile entire thing, so n-bytes-read is quite a bit faster probably 16:26:35 captain obviouses can guess the codebase I was decompiling :-) 16:26:59 what is pyc file? 16:27:11 compiled pyton script 16:27:34 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:27:46 can you do the same with a fasl file? 16:28:16 depends on the lisp, for clips or other bytecode based ones probably 16:28:33 -!- jikanter1 [~Adium@66.146.192.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:28:49 francogrex: You might find ecoff.lisp and fileutils.lisp at http://common-lisp.net/gitweb?p=users/abridgewater/perry.git;a=tree;js=1 to be of interest. 16:28:57 maxm-: you could use inline functions to make your code both readable and fast 16:29:16 francogrex: Or http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/faslizer.lisp if you're interesting in parsing SBCL fasls. 16:29:29 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:31 Right, food time, back in a while. 16:32:06 me too 16:32:12 food time 16:33:05 -!- francogrex [franco@216.86.77.194] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:33:17 -!- Amyn1 [~abennama@159.217.144.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:35:18 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.211.245.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:35:41 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.235.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:37:06 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.211.140.231] has joined #lisp 16:37:35 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-166-137-137-066.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:37:53 -!- lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:38:59 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:45:24 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 16:46:58 KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 16:46:58 -!- KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:47:49 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 16:48:29 xharkonnen_ [~charles@nas21-58.york.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 16:48:37 -!- jrockway [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:48:46 -!- xharkonnen_ [~charles@nas21-58.york.ac.uk] has left #lisp 16:49:05 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host86-137-67-204.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:49:16 jrockway [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has joined #lisp 16:50:37 -!- KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:28 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:03 peterhil` [~peterhil@GYYKMMDCCCLXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:00:23 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 17:00:25 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 17:01:44 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.38.145.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:02:50 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 17:02:54 -!- cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.90.1] 17:02:59 Any clisp experts on line? 17:03:44 Trying to make ASDF's RUN-SHELL-COMMAND work on clisp, and having a terrible time trying to grab both output and exit status. 17:03:59 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-241-163.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04:13 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:22 is rtoym around ? 17:04:28 maybe he is..... 17:04:31 rpg: the parameters in the other implementations have the opposite semantics than in clisp. 17:04:55 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.240] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:58 rpg: you'll have the most control with EXT::LAUNCH. 17:05:20 lemoinem [~swoog@205.233.82.34] has joined #lisp 17:05:56 pjb: There's no doc for this, is there? 17:06:28 http://clisp.cons.org/impnotes/imppack.html#ext-pac 17:06:39 *Xach* loses track of how many times he thinks something isn't in the implementation notes only to find it actually hadn't fully loaded when he searched 17:06:41 (describe 'ext::launch) 17:07:43 pjb: the _opposite_ semantics? ASDF:RUN-SHELL-COMMAND seems to do almost the same thing for SBCL and CLISP -- at least, :output parameter is used to specify terminal as output for both.. 17:07:44 v0|d [~user@93.94.250.121] has joined #lisp 17:07:57 hi #lisp! 17:08:59 akovalenko: the difference is when you want to communicate between lisp and the inferior process. 17:11:17 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 17:11:36 pjb: Ah. I tried (documentation 'ext::launch 'function) and got nothing... 17:12:01 Yes, it's a future function, it's not exported yet, and not fully documented. Read the source. Ask on the mail list. 17:12:24 pjb: OK, so not suited for use in ASDF until later. 17:12:44 MoALTz [~no@host-92-9-79-36.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 17:13:12 akovalenko: with clisp there seems no way to capture that terminal output to a string... 17:14:12 akovalenko: I can pass a stream to run-shell-command in SBCL and CCL. 17:14:39 in clisp, you ask for a stream, and read from it. You can stuff the data to a string if you want. 17:14:47 On clisp, I have to let run-shell-command make the stream for me, and if I do this, I lose access tothe exit status. 17:15:23 "cmd ; echo \"(status $?)\"" 17:15:36 moah [~gnu@dslb-188-109-202-223.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:42 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:16:50 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-bjntcodjyfaeuutt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:18:37 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:05 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:21:05 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:22:40 -!- samebchase_ [75d37b3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.211.123.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:55 -!- superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-192.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:24 superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-192.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:25:38 pjb: good idea. This makes us push a bunch of parsing into RUN-SHELL-COMMAND, but that's probably the best way to go. thanks. 17:26:50 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:27:25 has anybody run into 'Error: Can't resolve foreign symbol "asin"' rebuilding ccl? 17:27:40 i'm on a amd64 running ubuntu oneiric. 17:27:46 but it has been happening for awhile. 17:27:54 I rebuilt the lisp-kernel to no effect. 17:28:38 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 17:28:43 thrown when trying to compile l0-float.lisp 17:29:22 do you have x86-headers or somesuch directory? 17:30:03 ah, you think it's an issue with the general debian switch to multiarch? 17:31:15 the ccl source I got from svn does not haveeither x86-headers or x86-headers64 17:32:19 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-rlrqmgqbvxplkgut] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:34:05 try getting http://svn.clozure.com/publicsvn/openmcl/trunk/x86-headers64/ into the top-level subdirectory 17:36:53 ahh.. 17:37:03 docs are stale. thanks stassats. 17:38:45 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:39:22 Okay, where was I? 17:39:32 Fixing fops. 17:40:54 Yeah, right. Not on my queue at this point. :-P 17:40:58 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.59] has joined #lisp 17:41:39 lol 17:42:22 quick straw poll, anyone switch ctrl and caps-lock? 17:42:39 no 17:42:41 me never 17:42:51 Guthur: I once remapped caps-lock to be an extra backspace key, but found that I didn't use it for that, either. 17:42:54 Guthur: I do. 17:43:05 i seldomly use caps-lock 17:43:08 i've read it can help with emacs 17:43:15 how ? 17:43:24 as the ctrl is used so much and in a very awkward position 17:43:36 caps lock is next the home row 17:43:44 Guthur: i don't switch, i just make caps lock another control 17:43:44 *nyef* wouldn't mind having a control key on the right side of this keyboard. 17:43:47 Guthur: I have Ctrl on the left of A. 17:43:52 ie. where your fingers should return to when touch typing 17:44:02 i have two Ctrl keys already, don't want another 17:44:06 pjb: that would be caps-lock, hehe 17:44:16 on my keyboard at least 17:44:43 wbooze: you switch the l-ctrl and caps-lock around 17:44:53 not define another ctrl 17:44:57 wbooze: Ah, but once you change out caps-lock, you can use the control key on that side for something else... hyper, maybe? 17:45:04 why switch? do you really need caps lock? 17:45:05 ah 17:45:09 i have three controls and i'm okay 17:45:21 but i have the windows keys for available for hyper.... 17:45:34 they almost are empty..... 17:45:36 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:45:38 wbooze: The windows key is traditionally super, not hyper. 17:45:44 stassats: I actually use it frequently enough, i have to hack some c++ code which likes to use all-caps for constants 17:45:51 see, i could map that for hyper 17:45:56 And the context-menu key is often bound to M-x. 17:46:17 <|3b|> or you could use one for window manager stuff 17:46:20 is AltGr hyper ? 17:46:39 err, no iso-level-5 shift or so it is not ? 17:46:41 Guthur: write it, C-M-b M-u 17:46:55 Guthur: Oddly enough, I used to work at a place with a case-sensitive DB with upper-case table and column names. I found that I just held down shift as necessary, while many cow-orkers would hit caps lock... 17:46:59 or just M-- M-u 17:47:17 stassats: hehe, neat 17:47:55 I will have to try and remember that one 17:48:04 exactly like me, when i have to type in uppercase chars, say a word or so i don't bother hitting caps lock at all, only when i have to type a whole sentence in uppercase maybe .... 17:48:17 lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 17:48:32 so many to commit to memory, I've been way too lazy in developing my emacs-fu 17:48:43 just put a coffee cup onto shift 17:48:46 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:48:49 when I'm working with defpackage, what's the usual way to export a whole struct definition? the constructor, predicate, accessors etc. 17:48:58 do I have to type them all out in the export clause? 17:49:02 tonyg: M-x slime-export-structure 17:49:02 ... just don't put the coffee cup onto the cup holder. :-P 17:49:13 stassats: thanks 17:49:30 stassats: hmm. cvs head slime doesn't seem to have that! 17:49:37 nyef: my laptop doesn't have a proper cup holder 17:49:43 *|3b|* wonders if anyone sells a cup holder that fits in an optical media drive bay 17:49:44 tonyg: that's not true 17:49:47 kind of like a small coffee table 17:50:04 tonyg: do you have slime-fancy contrib enabled? 17:50:10 Guthur: I half-wish mine did, that way it might be able to read the "business-card" disks. 17:50:20 stassats: perhaps that's what I'm missing. 17:50:33 |3b|: Even better, make it a hot-plate! 17:51:18 |3b|: doesn't CD drive works fine as a cup holder already? 17:51:54 stassats: Only if you don't mind it snapping off, or closing at random times. 17:52:00 stassats: thanks for the tip, slime-fancy is what I wanted. 17:52:39 tonyg: http://slime-tips.tumblr.com/post/10851398604/exporting-symbols 17:54:11 one could always remake the space-cadet keyboard I suppose 17:54:41 It's really too bad that touch-screen keyboards have such lousy tactile response. 17:54:48 H4ns_ [5b3d436c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.67.108] has joined #lisp 17:55:02 then you will feel even more awkward at a friend's keyboard 17:55:50 I don't think anyone else in my office actually uses emacs regularly 17:56:07 so I'm not feel at home at their terminal anyway 17:56:12 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-457138a9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:34 well, even when using someone's firefox, i constantly flip caps-lock 17:57:02 gilligan_ [~gilligan@p4FEA5173.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:33 I love how easy it is to change stuff linux, with windows I had to do an obscure regedit to get this key change 17:57:44 stassats: do you also find yourself suddenly spawning 20+ new windows, printing the current page, closing tabs when trying to copy, etc? ;D 17:58:45 sykopomp: do you swap the keys? 17:59:03 is using (TAGBODY RETRY ...) and (GO RETRY) considered reasonable style? 17:59:15 Guthur: I use pentadactyl with customizations to make it more emacs-like than vim-like. 17:59:17 tonyg: It's not entirely unreasonable. 17:59:21 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 17:59:37 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 17:59:40 *sykopomp* has a question about today's slime-tip. 17:59:44 nyef: in Scheme, I'd tail call myself; here, some kind of a loop or goto seems warranted; sound right to you? 17:59:58 tonyg: Have a look at USB-CONTROL and USB-BULK in http://www.lisphacker.com/temp/sb-usb.lisp 18:00:03 nyef: thank you 18:00:23 Is there a way to make configure slime-compile-file-options so that it puts the FASLs into the same directory ASDF would put those FASLs on compile? 18:00:58 *Xach* has deja vu 18:00:59 sykopomp: You might find it easier to alter the behavior of ASDF. :-P 18:01:42 nyef: bah humbug :( 18:02:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:03 (Then again, I don't find ASDF to be particularly easy to customize, either...) 18:03:42 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:05:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:07:13 -!- StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:07:19 StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has joined #lisp 18:08:01 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-83-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:20 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-83-185.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 18:08:40 loke: does GData provide a way to edit contacts, or can it only list them? 18:09:24 (I ask because I need to perform a bulk operation on phone numbers, and cl-gdata looks like somewhere to start) 18:10:19 cmm: gdata can write most stuff 18:10:26 the docs should tell you 18:10:31 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 18:11:13 rsynnott: yeah, well, I was sorta hoping to avoid figuring out the docs and just use a nice CL wrapper :) 18:11:32 no such luck, I guess 18:11:33 sykopomp: you'd have to modify *fasl-pathname-function* 18:11:36 on the lisp side 18:11:59 IME, even if you're using a wrapper you'll probably need the docs 18:12:19 the wrappers are nearly always very thin 18:12:53 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:04 Elizabeth_ [~Elizabeth@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:25 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 18:14:26 re 18:15:24 man I'm starting to seriously consider writing a fat airline industry app in commonqt 18:15:37 hehe 18:15:54 i was in the beginning stages of writing C++ web based prototype (using Wt++) 18:16:07 that sounds painful 18:16:10 *p_l* recently considered writing a flying app, but due to environment targeted, in Java (Android...) 18:16:30 abcl 18:16:31 but Wt+ is a bit hacky/unstable (tho Qt-like interface for building web staff is awesome) 18:16:31 (flying as in "by airline") 18:16:44 pjb: doesn't run on Android reliably, iirc 18:16:59 if it can't run on my phone, it isn't getting chosen 18:17:02 p_l: AOT compilation related? 18:17:05 So on Android you don't have the freedom of choice of programming language... Interesting. 18:17:11 do you think I'll be able to hire any lisp coders in NY metro area? For peanuts / promises I mean :-) 18:17:13 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:17:17 ... does clojure not-suck on android yet? 18:17:22 pjb: there's a prefered platform. 18:17:24 nyef: clojure kills GC 18:17:31 Ah. Pity. 18:17:49 nyef: maybe it stopped killing GC with the concurrent collector in 2.3, but I'm testing on 2.2 :> 18:18:12 I've actually started getting half-tempted by some of the android tablets out there. 18:18:22 thing is have to support windows.. To seriously consider this I need to download all the non-sbcl win32 lisps, and see which one can run commonqt in a stable way 18:18:32 pjb: you get more freedom if you drop support for older OS versions. Not gonna happen in this case 18:18:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:18:56 Android api is pretty nice 18:18:57 maxm-: win32 (forked) sbcl! 18:19:12 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:19:20 pkhuong: no I don't want to fight my lisp environment, I want to use it 18:19:27 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:19:29 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:19:29 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 18:19:30 pjb: also, it's mainly because ABCL doesn't play well with rest of the environment which has different behaviours than normal JRE. There's port of Kawa Scheme that works, though, so I might investigate it later 18:19:33 the way I understand it win32 sbcl is still a bit hairy 18:19:37 maxm-: clisp? 18:19:48 pjb: personally, I considered doing something along the lines of LinJ 18:19:49 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 18:20:02 is allegro stable on windows? 18:20:04 maxm-: it may end up being less hairy than getting CCL to respond fast enough for you. 18:20:14 maxm-: ... yes? 18:20:18 I've heard reports that clozure cl works pretty well on windows. 18:20:26 maxm-: sure, but look at the licensing terms. 18:20:39 maxm-: hiring programmers in general for peanuts is hardly easy 18:20:41 as in 5th element, if you want something checked, check it yourself, so I'll just try most of them 18:20:58 benny` [~benny@i577A8AB8.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:32 rsynnott: yea choices are a) code everything oneself b) promise stock optios c) bring in suits early 18:21:40 maybe a) is duable with lisp 18:21:44 CCL apparently works well enough on Windows, yep 18:22:02 though not sure what you'd use for GUI 18:22:11 commonqt 18:22:14 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:22:23 There's this, but it's not very mature: http://cocotron.org/ 18:22:28 oh, yep, of course, there's commonqt 18:22:37 no other choice really, and graphics view canvas framework is just awesome for fancy scrolling/zooming visualization type staff 18:22:48 maxm-: CommonQt's homepage had benchmarks some time ago, and CCL was a fair bit slower than SBCL. 18:23:00 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-112.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:23:01 pkhuong: I speeded it up by like 95% 18:23:18 they had a string lookup on each method call for each arg 18:23:18 -!- benny [~benny@i577A76D7.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:23:20 added a hashtable 18:23:29 -!- benny` is now known as benny 18:24:06 95% was spent in cffi foreign-from-string and its opposite 18:24:29 *maxm-* has to rebase and put his commonqt fork on github 18:24:57 have to separate non-usable stuff out, I don't think marshalling QPointF from complex stuff will get accepted 18:24:57 -!- psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has left #lisp 18:26:41 then there is licensing too.. Qt I can buy, but what about commonqt and libsmoke which it uses 18:26:47 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:27:17 maxm-: LGPL, iirc 18:27:26 the same for Qt, even on windows 18:27:38 so, safe since it's dynamically linked 18:27:53 though not sure about commonqt, let's check 18:28:09 looks MIT 18:28:25 anyone here located in New York City? 18:28:37 I met Heow a couple nights ago 18:28:57 well thats promising 18:29:12 now just the easy part, write the killer app and sell it :-) 18:29:17 haha 18:29:30 RomyEatsDrupal: not usually. 18:29:44 recently it seems to me that sometimes it is the easy part... now, building all the infrastructure... 18:29:44 but I seriously going to download win32 stuff and test it out... So far I plan: ccl, allegro, lispworks 18:30:06 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 18:30:06 well I'm building quite an expertise with commonqt, and like it more and more 18:30:09 maxm-: LW has IMHO the nicest licensing terms out of commercial lisps 18:30:32 and starting to make nice frameworks, my repl integration rocks, (tab completion of qt methods is next on todo list) 18:30:33 RomyEatsDrupal: who is Heow? 18:30:41 Guthur: he is a lispnyc fellow. 18:30:48 Heow is the organizer of Lisp NYC 18:30:56 he's been running it for ten years 18:31:00 *maxm-* is in nyc 18:31:07 i only found this out a couple days ago, so i am definitely going to check that out 18:31:25 but I'm busy coding, its amazing how much time actual coding takes, if you working on a big project rather then hacking here and there 18:31:43 he warned i would be the only female but i'd still like to make it out 18:31:47 Xach: when do you make your trip to euroland 18:31:50 but its such a good feeling when your framework falls into place, and code start to write itself 18:31:54 Guthur: in one week 18:32:20 Xach: you might have to donate to some of our banks to be let in 18:32:43 hehe, only joking, we're getting sick of donating to them ourselves 18:33:02 I could really use a weaker euro. 18:33:40 *maxm-* has tons of moneys underwater in german etf 18:33:56 I hope krouts pull through, and get their greek loans back 18:34:08 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:34:23 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:36:07 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:38:12 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012d71.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:24 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-457138a9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 18:43:48 pjb: Still there? 18:44:48 anyone know if clisp gets standard error from RUN-SHELL-COMMAND? 18:45:02 *p_l* could currently use weaker GBP 18:45:42 larkc runs on android ;) 18:46:17 rpg: (describe 'ext:RUN-SHELL-COMMAND) indicates that there's no provision to collect stderr. Try launch instead. 18:46:35 hi 18:46:44 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-457138a9.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:10 dmiles_afk: will it let me code in CL-ish language and have it access Java APIs? ;P 18:47:17 at least it should http://www.larkc.eu http://www.cyc.com/cycdoc/ref/subl-reference.html 18:47:54 for larkc i cloned the allegro jlinker 18:48:11 (the samer thing ABCL did) 18:48:36 but.. lessee where that plugin module is at the moment 18:48:42 pjb: I think we'll postpone that. We have already had problems where we made ASDF depend on features of CLISP that were out in advance too much. For now I'm going to call it good if we capture everything /but/ standard error.... 18:49:29 p_l: that module exists on a linux machine that is waiting for a motherboard replacemtn ;( 18:49:50 :( 18:49:51 pjb: Thanks for your suggestion about clisp error status. I've got that in ASDF now and will push it later today! 18:50:00 oh oh.. actually.. the Common_lisp_extension of Larc work 18:50:20 dmiles_afk: right now I'm leaning towards writing LinJ from scratch, targeting Java 5+ 18:50:24 the Common_lisp_extension of Larkc work includes ABCL jlinker code 18:51:33 http://larkc.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/larkc/branches/LarKC_CommonLisp_Extensions/platform 18:51:45 RomyEatsDrupal: I am in NYC. 18:52:33 reb``: cool, where you at? 18:52:54 i'm looking for a coworking space today. coming from Midwood, Brooklyn. 18:52:54 linj makes sense 18:53:33 wow linj emits classes? 18:54:28 oh i studied linj.. i rmemeb er now its the one with Priomtive0 18:54:47 hmm, why was #lisp highlighted? 18:55:08 um Proceedure0/2 etc 18:55:09 anvandare: cut & paste error 18:55:23 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:55:30 aww :( I thought someone wanted my invaluable deep knowledge about something 18:56:01 what i loved about linj is much is duck typed 18:56:49 i didnt know Xach did it 18:57:13 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 18:57:17 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@ool-457138a9.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 18:59:41 doing it at least.. awesome 19:00:04 wait its not targeting 1.5 .. is it targeting too early a jvm? 19:01:00 i wish everyone source compilance level of 1.3 and jvm level 1.5 ;) 19:01:59 i mean class compilance level of 1.5 or 1.6 19:02:01 RomyEatsDrupal: I work at Google in Chelsea. 19:02:03 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:04:47 schell [~schellsci@75-101-46-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:52 -!- schell [~schellsci@75-101-46-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 19:05:58 -!- cgo_ [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:07:59 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:10:23 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:45 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.242.21] has joined #lisp 19:11:57 schell [~schellsci@75-101-46-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:00 -!- schell [~schellsci@75-101-46-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has left #lisp 19:13:18 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:16:13 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:18:52 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@GYYKMMDCCCLXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:18:57 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:19:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:22:17 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:23:19 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 19:26:28 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 19:26:32 <_deepfire> God, bless me. I'm trying to implement HANDLER-BIND in Python. 19:27:16 <_deepfire> The worst part is making it work with the native try/except para-olympics. 19:27:32 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.223] has joined #lisp 19:28:10 it's just a dynamically scoped list of handlers. 19:29:00 <_deepfire> pkhuong, the darned thing doesn't have RETURN-FROM.. 19:29:00 prip [~foo@host233-122-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:29:33 that's just a catch/throw with a lexically-scoped nonce. 19:29:46 <_deepfire> I can pass a function down the stack, but when activated from the bottom, it won't be able to "handle". 19:30:23 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-21.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:30:40 <_deepfire> "Handling" is defined in CL as non-local return, and I can't figure out how to do it in Python. 19:31:31 <_deepfire> This spells doom.. 19:31:45 -!- hikarudo [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:31:47 hikarudo_ [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:32:05 emulating return-from with dynamically-scoped control operators is a classic. 19:32:19 _deepfire: Have a look for papers by Henry Baker. 19:32:26 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:33 <_deepfire> Ooh, folks, won't that mess up the stack hopelessly? 19:32:51 <_deepfire> Would I be able to unwind the stack with that kind of emulation? 19:32:51 no. 19:32:55 yeah. 19:33:01 <_deepfire> Wow! 19:33:19 One of the basic tricks is simply to use catch/throw. 19:33:27 Like I said, it's just catch/throw with a nonce bound to a lexically-scoped variable. 19:33:38 <_deepfire> Python doesn't have CATCH/THROW. 19:33:54 So use TAGBODY/GO instead, then. 19:34:19 _deepfire: sure it does. 19:34:25 *_deepfire* looks 19:34:36 Or just have a special "exception" type that your try/except logic can use. 19:34:43 It doesn't have the same test, but you can rethrow exceptions. 19:35:21 <_deepfire> Aha.. 19:35:38 <_deepfire> I didn't thought of try/except this way. 19:37:48 Now, remember, that try/except plus rethrow is handler-case + resignal. 19:38:20 Very carefully specified to completely screw up non-error use-cases for conditions. 19:38:40 <_deepfire> Thank you folks! 19:38:46 Good luck. 19:42:17 manuel___ [~manuel@pD9FDE6BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:44:17 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: under the bit stream] 19:44:33 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDDF6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:44:33 -!- manuel___ is now known as manuel_ 19:44:51 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:45:27 Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 -!- hikarudo_ [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:46:46 -!- H4ns_ [5b3d436c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.91.61.67.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:47:01 benkard [~benkard@mnch-d9bddf50.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:04 hikarudo [~hikarudo@201.86.31.232.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:47:16 <_deepfire> Btw, thank you for a hbaker reminder. I have his homepage bookmarked, and just reading the paper titles gives me warm fuzzies.. 19:47:30 -!- H4ns [4ffc849c@gateway/web/freenode/ip.79.252.132.156] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:49:19 <_deepfire> Can't seem to find any condition-handling-related papers at http://home.pipeline.com/~hbaker1/home.html , though 19:50:11 You want the metacircular paper 19:51:11 is that normal that in emacs, the doc string of methods is highlighted with the font-lock string-face and not the doc-face as for functions ? 19:51:17 <_deepfire> Oh, I remember it.. 19:51:42 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:53:16 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:53:29 when's the ECLM supposed to finish? Sunday 18:00? 19:54:01 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:54:33 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:45 marsell [~marsell@120.20.73.31] has joined #lisp 19:57:15 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:57:16 -!- sonnym [~sonny@72.43.20.246] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:57:42 benkard_ [~benkard@mnch-4d04c8b0.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:09 -!- Harag [~phil@41.146.231.191] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:25 Harag [~phil@41.146.231.191] has joined #lisp 19:59:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [] 20:00:15 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-d9bddf50.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:16 -!- benkard_ is now known as benkard 20:00:37 -!- juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:01:19 juniorroy [~dima@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 20:01:21 ignas [~ignas@user-188-33-160-40.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:03:02 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@dsl254-099-007.nyc1.dsl.speakeasy.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:44 nyef_ [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:03:47 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:03:48 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:51 galdor: mine is using the doc-face 20:06:06 oh wait that is defun 20:06:14 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:06:43 umm yeah strange that, something is a like messed up there 20:06:53 s/like/little 20:06:55 indeed :) 20:07:23 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:08:36 -!- hikarudo [~hikarudo@201.86.31.232.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: hikarudo] 20:10:13 dmiles_afk: i just bundled up something from the original author, who is too busy to care for it any more 20:10:17 -!- dontbehero [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:11:17 is there a static website generator in CL? 20:11:40 prxq: there are lots of ways to generate static text files in CL, not sure what else you mean 20:11:49 is backquote not a macro? that is, does CL differ from Scheme's approach here? 20:12:20 prxq: for cxml / DOM you can see buildnode, for templates you can check TALCL (NB: these are my libs so I am biased) 20:12:23 tonyg: the ` expands into an implementation-defined macro 20:12:31 bobbysmith007: well, something that allows me to write templates and markdown and stuff, and obtain a static web site 20:12:44 bobbysmith007: that's ok :-) 20:12:50 tonyg: the effect is the same across implementations, the implementation-defined name is not. 20:12:58 prxq: neither of those are markdown renderers (though I am sure they exist) 20:13:31 Xach: thanks. That's what I feared :-) 20:13:44 i used webgen, but it is confusing and not too well documented (at least, it seems that way to me) 20:13:47 tonyg: Did you have a project in mind that would be easier if it had a standard name? 20:13:57 prxq: what is webgen? 20:13:59 prxq: you might check: http://www.cliki.net/Web 20:14:03 dontbehero [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:14:25 Xach: I'd have preferred for ,x and ,@x to be equivalent to (unquote x) and (unquote-splicing x), respectively 20:14:35 so that I could reuse that syntax in a quasiquote-like macro of my own 20:14:42 Xach: a static website generator (written in ruby) 20:15:20 bobbysmith007: a lot of stuff 20:15:22 :-) 20:16:05 tonyg: appendix c of CLtL2 has an implementation you could re-use 20:16:28 Xach: wouldn't I have to alter the reader? 20:16:37 Xach: to make , and ,@ do what I mean them to do? 20:16:45 prxq: I tried to make sure that TALCL was documented and I definitely fix bugs / issues if you report them. There are even examples https://github.com/bobbysmith007/talcl/blob/master/examples/window.tal 20:16:51 tonyg: common lisp has a configurable reader. 20:16:58 tonyg: the example implementation uses different characters. 20:17:09 Xach: ok. Yeah. No, I don't think I want to do that yet :-) 20:17:13 bobbysmith007: I'll take a look 20:19:07 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:34 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:19:46 i am somewhat surprised that "static CMS" isn't something for which something really standard exists 20:21:01 *nyef_* sighs. 20:21:02 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:22 Is it too much to ask to have edit-and-continue or whatever (live code update) on iPhone? 20:21:29 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 20:21:38 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.253] has joined #lisp 20:21:44 *nyef_* is hoping that it's a config option he hasn't stumbled across yet. 20:23:25 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:59 -!- djanatyn is now known as secret-djan 20:25:57 -!- secret-djan is now known as djanatyn 20:32:22 -!- gilligan_ [~gilligan@p4FEA5173.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:32:26 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:34:49 nyef_: doesn't sound like something Apple would allow 20:35:01 but maybe someone has hacked it in there 20:35:46 Lma [~Lma@tx-184-5-68-221.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:14 <_deepfire> One thin Python doesn't seem to have is a kind of conditions not handled by non-specific try/except clauses. 20:38:18 <_deepfire> *thing 20:39:08 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@82.143.220.253] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:25 Actually, it sounds like EXACTLY the sort of thing that Apple would allow. 20:40:32 parabolize [~paraboliz@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:44 nyef_: really, maybe I misunderstood 20:41:06 Sure. It's just live code update when you already have gdb attached. 20:41:44 oh I thought you meant something like a REPL, and redefining funs 20:42:00 ie. standard interactive programming 20:42:13 No REPL, but redefining funs 20:42:28 But happening in a development setting, not in the field. 20:43:29 In order for it to happen with a real device, you'd need all the same provisioning profiles and such that you do to deploy an app under development to hardware in the first place. 20:43:45 my experience of gdb is severely limited 20:44:04 doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:44:08 Yeah, well, my point in mentioning gdb is that there's a tethered debugging connection going. 20:44:41 I don't know mobile device tend to be locked down tighter than most things 20:45:14 but not really my thing so I can really offer any real worthwhile insights 20:45:15 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 20:45:20 can't* 20:45:55 _deepfire: what do you mean non specific? 20:46:13 i though except: caught everything 20:47:10 Am I mad, or should this not complain about bad dimensions: (cl-match:match #(123) ((array (1 (unsigned-byte 8)) (123)) 'yes) (_ 'no)) ? 20:48:49 the closely-related (cl-match:match #(123 234) ((array (1 (unsigned-byte 8)) (123 234)) 'yes) (_ 'no)) => YES 20:48:55 so I'm a bit puzzled 20:50:33 -!- xharkonnen [~xharkonne@2.26.51.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:54:26 What pattern-matching libraries do people here use? Maybe no-one uses CL-MATCH? 20:55:40 tonyg: fare-matcher is another. I used the simple version described in PAIP for my own purposes. 20:58:33 jajana [~jajana@108.59.8.76] has joined #lisp 20:58:46 It rather depends on the patterns I'm trying to match. It's not uncommon for me to use TYPECASE, for example. 21:02:01 austinh: I'll check out fare-matcher. 21:03:00 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:03:15 i'm a lisp newbie. anyone here ever did Casting Spels in Lisp? 21:03:58 not sure if serious 21:03:59 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:05:39 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 21:06:41 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:06:49 DualDetroit [6c1b751e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.108.27.117.30] has joined #lisp 21:07:04 Yo, yo yo, what up homeboys. 21:07:08 RomyEatsDrupal: Casting Spels? 21:07:10 My name is DualDetroit. I am an ECMAScriptist from Detroit. 21:07:37 it's an illustrated cartoonish tutorial for Lisp beginners 21:07:42 for a moment I thought you said you were an ECMA script 21:07:51 its probably an attempt to get me on record with google searching for it, which autocorrected to "casting spells" 21:08:22 DualDetroit: ##javascript is that way --> 21:08:47 as adwords gear turns, expect increase in twilight and harry potter ads in your personilized ads :-) 21:09:03 RomyEatsDrupal: what literature are using for your exploration of lisp 21:09:04 Guthur: http://www.lisperati.com/casting.html 21:09:27 ecrist: Does Google have any Lisp code in production? :) 21:09:30 doh 21:09:31 RomyEatsDrupal: also a newbie, i remember seeing it when i was 21:09:31 looking for books to start with but then i came across PCL and that's 21:09:31 what what i have been using and have ventured in PAIP once in a while 21:09:32 i'm a graphic designer / front end developer venturing onto the programming territory 21:09:46 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:12:50 basically if you going to start with lisp, IMHO correct way is to first start with emacs, because someone struggling with non-slime DOS window repl, will probably turn ppl off lisp, rather then bring them in 21:13:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:25 joseph_ [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:14:33 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:14:37 eek, maxm- that sounds horrifying 21:14:48 would certainly put me off, even now 21:14:49 My first experiences rather called for good lineediting (settled with linedit). 21:15:16 So you can just fire up an implementation and try little things on and off 21:15:44 With history and more or less familiar shortcuts. 21:15:46 My first experiences called for some binary parsing and some ad-hoc list manipulation. 21:15:53 H4ns [57a9e909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.233.9] has joined #lisp 21:16:18 ffs. cl-match is written in a very weird style 21:16:22 infix operators, yeesh 21:16:50 RomyEatsDrupal: have you looked at "a gentle introduction to symbolic computation" by dave touretzky? 21:16:51 my puzzling example is in fact a bug in cl-match 21:16:52 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:17:01 Joreji [~thomas@74-112.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 21:17:08 (cl-match::all-equal '()) => T 21:17:13 tonyg: I used a long time ago, when I believed in pattern-matching--based compilers. 21:17:15 (cl-match::all-equal '(1)) => NIL 21:17:20 (cl-match::all-equal '(1 1)) => T 21:17:38 prxq: i am off to look at that 21:17:51 maxm-: Or vim. 21:17:55 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:12 *oconnore* released another library today: https://github.com/oconnore/multi-timer 21:18:25 RomyEatsDrupal: I haven't done the spels thing, but the author has an excellent reputation 21:18:28 superflit_ [~superflit@71-208-204-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:18:31 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 21:18:48 pkhuong: thanks, looks interesting 21:19:24 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:19:26 *in-scope?* t -- omg, that looks awesome 21:19:27 RomyEatsDrupal: he also wrote a book titled Land of Lisp 21:19:44 https://github.com/oconnore/multi-timer/blob/master/timer.lisp at line 152 is amazing 21:20:03 *felideon* channels Xach 21:20:05 DualDetroit: go away 21:20:14 lol 21:20:22 Xach loves me. 21:20:31 DualDetroit: heh 21:20:39 DualDetroit: how would you have done it? 21:20:56 -!- superflit [~superflit@174-16-47-192.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:20:56 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 21:21:02 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:21:38 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-223-23.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:21:42 oconnore: With .call() in ECMAScript :< 21:23:12 yes prxq I would be thrilled to meet Conrad Barski one day 21:23:27 oh yes, felideon that is on my Amazon wish list :) 21:23:43 Oh Aristotle, you bastard. 21:24:04 The problem is that (cl-match::andf) => NIL 21:24:09 when it should (cl-match::andf) => T 21:24:17 What a C programmer looks like after learning Lisp: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/db/L%27Ange_du_Foyeur.jpg 21:24:29 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-113-11.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:24:50 tonyg: Did you see the note someone added here?: http://www.cliki.net/cl-match 21:25:18 RomyEatsDrupal: Casting Spels is about macros only. 21:25:32 RomyEatsDrupal: read it after "A Gentle Introduction...". 21:25:44 austinh: ha! thanks :) yeah, probably good advice 21:26:15 tonyg: I did the same thing: started w/ cl-match, then saw that note after I had trouble, then switched to fare-matcher... 21:26:18 Does anyone know how I can contact Dan Bensen, who wrote cl-match, to send him a bug report + patch? 21:26:33 pjb: i have saved http://www.scs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/book.pdf thank you for the recommendation 21:26:38 austinh: :( Bensen claims cl-match is based on fare-match 21:26:45 austinh: How different did you find them? 21:26:57 tonyg: But then I just decided to implement the pattern matching code in PAIP, which is much simpler and was fine for my use case. 21:27:16 austinh: ah, ok. 21:27:17 tonyg: It was very easy to switch my code from cl-match to fare-matcher. 21:27:30 because as much as I love Conrad Barski's illustrations and the fantasy world, the tutorial was hard to follow, as I found some of the phrases confusing. 21:27:41 tonyg: But that's just anecdotal evidence based on my simple use-case. 21:28:20 austinh: looks from cursory inspection like it doesn't support matching arrays. 21:28:26 *maxm-* went through the casting spel thing and its pretty good entry-level intro. 21:28:48 tonyg: I never needed that, sorry. 21:28:52 Lisp programmers are like doormen in Manhattan apartment buildings. 21:28:53 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:28:53 austinh: nm. 21:29:11 Sigh. I have been spoiled by Racket's (match) macro. :-) 21:29:40 ... lovely. My text field data bindings are almost completely broken. 21:29:49 DualDetroit: I'm originally from LA so I'mc curious on the doorman analogy? :) 21:29:57 I've been really envious of how Erlang can do so much with patterns. 21:30:03 RomyEatsDrupal: Don't feed the trolls. 21:30:23 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:39 austinh: hadn't the foggiest ideas Lisp Trolls existed here 21:30:55 austinh: totally. it's a lovely style to work in. I started using Racket (with its (match) macro) after doing a lot of Erlang programming, and it's very comfortable. 21:31:06 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-ycukvekmgmgfwljq] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:31:10 Kron [~Kron@69.166.20.161] has joined #lisp 21:31:12 A port of the Racket (match) to CL would no doubt be a valuable thing. 21:31:18 RomyEatsDrupal: We're pretty rare. 21:31:34 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.5.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:31:36 -!- Kron is now known as Guest96813 21:31:43 RomyEatsDrupal: And those of us that actually write Lisp code are rarer. 21:31:43 tonyg: Yeah, I've kinda shelved what I was doing, because it just didn't seem to fit with the rest of Lisp; at least, as far as I could take it. 21:32:13 austinh: is your matcher visible anywhere? 21:32:57 tonyg: No, it's not. It's just straight out of PAIP with a couple very superficial higher-level functions built on it. 21:33:32 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-205-53.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:36 -!- cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.90.1] 21:33:40 tonyg: the paip code is available on the web. Just g00gl3 it 21:34:02 triliyn [~desmond@76-206-56-151.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:26 http://norvig.com/paip/patmatch.lisp 21:34:42 it is slightly idiosyncratic, though. 21:34:45 ok, found it. 21:34:46 thanks 21:35:02 Hmm. What does common-lisp.net do about orphaned projects? 21:35:16 I can't find a contact for Daniel S Bensen. 21:35:52 pjb has a matcher too 21:35:56 tonyg: if a project's owner can't be contacted for months, a new maintainer is welcome 21:36:04 Qworkescence: pjb uses gpl 21:36:12 (just saying) 21:36:18 what a hippie 21:36:24 H4ns: I *definitely* don't want to be the maintainer :-) But I do have a patch that fixes a bug. 21:36:53 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 21:36:57 tonyg: well, if you care, you'll have to become the maintainer. 21:36:59 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:37:08 Ah well. 21:37:23 also, being the mantainer for a lisp project is rather easy on resources. 21:37:34 often enough, i mean 21:37:35 Younder [~john@49.157.202.84.customer.cdi.no] has joined #lisp 21:37:52 just look at the mailing list, and estimate the work it takes. 21:37:56 prxq: right. nobody is going to use your stuff, so you have no work :p 21:38:08 I'm new to CL this afternoon; I'm not sure I'm too committed yet 21:38:12 just being cynical, sorry 21:38:47 tonyg: well, in that case you have a little more than a point. So you started today and have patches to commit? Whoa. 21:38:49 tonyg: when you're ready to commit yourself, come again. it'd be great to see dead projects be revived. 21:39:04 *tonyg* nods 21:39:06 Fair 21:39:14 i am the mantainer of a couple of projects, and effectively nothing happens there. 21:39:24 I've been using Quicklisp 21:39:38 Perhaps there's some homebrewish way of updating the formula-equivalent there to include a patch 21:39:43 Xach has all teh work 21:40:26 -!- turnipseed [~cms@static-50-43-55-69.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:40:44 tonyg: what project are you looking at? 21:40:50 tonyg: commit stuff to github, let xach know where to fetch the project. 21:41:07 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 21:41:46 prxq: have a one-liner (one-atomer, really: NIL => T) for CL-MATCH. H4ns: I will do that. 21:42:09 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:42:52 tonyg: i'll try to reach the guy, if he does not respond, i'll update the project page to point to the new repo. 21:43:03 rotty [rotty@de.xx.vu] has joined #lisp 21:43:51 superflit_ [~superflit@71-208-204-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:12 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:44:18 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-204-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:18 H4ns: thanks. I'll let you know when I have it ready 21:44:18 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 21:45:03 tonyg: thanks. send to admin@common-lisp.net 21:45:08 so easy to oust a maintainer?! 21:45:10 :) 21:45:27 oh well, i guess we'll have to clean up the project list on commn-lisp.net 21:46:13 turnipseed [~cms@50.43.55.69] has joined #lisp 21:46:23 i guess that of the 429 projects that we have, at least 50% have never taken off and 25% are dead. 21:46:37 H4ns: how about putting a small "admin's notice" on the original page? 21:47:05 Lma_ [~Lma@tx-184-5-68-221.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:08 prxq: i'm more thinking about sending an email to all maintainers to let us know whether the project still exists. 21:47:14 that's rather normal. What I find nice is that most of the stuff works anyway 21:47:34 -!- Lma_ [~Lma@tx-184-5-68-221.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:47:41 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:48:00 prxq: what makes you say "most of the stuff"? :) 21:48:37 -!- jajana [~jajana@108.59.8.76] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:48:37 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:48:48 H4ns: caution, perhaps? :-) 21:48:58 H4ns: will email that address. Are you the person behind the address? Or will I be emailing someone not familiar with what's happening? 21:49:09 tonyg: i am one of the admins 21:49:37 H4ns: also, without having tried it, I think some of the bindings have bitrotted. Like lgtk, f. ex. 21:49:45 tonyg: your email will end up in our request tracker and i'll see it. it does not hurt to write an explanative sentence, though. 21:49:54 H4ns: ok, will do 21:50:16 -!- Lma [~Lma@tx-184-5-68-221.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:50:39 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:12 ok. done. bye. 21:51:14 -!- H4ns [57a9e909@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.169.233.9] has quit [] 21:53:05 jajana [~jajana@41.141.8.69] has joined #lisp 21:56:19 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-192.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:25 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:58:22 dadano [~jajana@108.59.8.76] has joined #lisp 21:58:30 -!- jajana [~jajana@41.141.8.69] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 21:59:49 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has joined #lisp 22:01:33 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:49 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:17 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:04:31 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:05:14 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.73.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:05:34 marsell [~marsell@120.22.1.89] has joined #lisp 22:06:36 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:07:33 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@cambridge-vxty.basistech.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:09:18 <_deepfire> Hmm, SBCL implements SIGNAL functionality separately from UNWIND-PROTECT unwinding. 22:09:31 -!- doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:09:52 Yes. Yes, it does. 22:09:59 Of course, it rather had to. 22:10:08 <_deepfire> nyef_, for performance reasons? 22:10:22 Because they are completely orthogonal features. 22:10:33 <_deepfire> I was afraid to hear this.. 22:10:45 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:10:54 lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:56 UNWIND-PROTECT deals with non-local control flow. 22:11:25 SIGNAL deals with lookup and execution of a function in a dynamically-bound namespace. 22:11:38 <_deepfire> Oh, and SIGNAL relies on the handler's ability to do that non-local control flow to do unwinding? 22:11:42 Spot on. 22:11:54 Hence why HANDLER-CASE is implemented in terms of HANDLER-BIND. 22:12:55 <_deepfire> Thank you a lot! 22:13:06 No problem. 22:13:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.84.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:13:53 I remember driving myself crazy trying to sort out the semantics and implications with respect to C++ ABIs and WinAPI and whatnot a few years ago. 22:14:08 Hello Dragoons! 22:14:31 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:14:39 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 22:14:43 I have a (mostly stupid) question about CL:PSETF. http://paste.lisp.org/+2OON 22:14:58 wildnux [~wildnux@pool-96-226-69-239.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:12 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 22:15:16 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.242.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:31 mon_key: Yes, your interpretation is correct. 22:15:53 Although you might consider (shiftf (car consed) (cdr consed)). 22:15:59 So, I'm cool to mutate the local var with impunity? 22:16:20 mon_key: no. 22:16:27 oh, clisp ignores SIGCHLD 22:16:35 nyef_: yes, I looked at spec for CL:SHIFTF but wasn't entirely comfortable. 22:17:16 nyef_: I have code that prints s-expressions to a log file. I'm seeing nul characters in the log file. 22:17:17 I think the use-case is when performing the assignments in series would affect the computation of later values in the series. 22:17:22 mon_key: your code is bogus. 22:17:24 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 22:17:25 Rather like the difference between LET* and LET. 22:17:44 Exactly 768K in one case and 4888K in another. 22:18:09 mon_key: Oh, and Xach has the right of it. The SETF version should return (B . B). 22:18:27 I know that a stream might produce bad output if multiple threads are writing to it at the same time, but I don't think that's happening here. 22:18:46 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.187.102] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:18:54 reb``: Can you prove that it isn't happening here? 22:19:28 reb``: Is there any other corruption to the file contents besides the stray #\Nul characters? 22:19:37 Xach: nyef_: Is there something explicitly bogus in the setf example b/c that is the return value I'm getting. 22:19:42 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:19:50 Well, output is missing I think. 22:20:01 mon_key: yes, mutating literal data 22:20:12 Ohh, right... 22:20:13 yep 22:20:14 got it 22:20:35 (cons 'a 'b) gives => (B . B) 22:20:38 And since it's literal data, the compiler is permitted to eval the car and cdr at compile-time... 22:20:47 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d012d71.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:21:19 I can't prove that no other thread is writing to standard output. 22:21:57 Slap a mutex on writing to your log file. If necessary, use a gray stream wrapper or similar to so do. 22:22:46 The mutex won't help unless modify all code in my Lisp to use it too, right? 22:23:00 nyef_: Xach: Does the same apply to mutation of literals with PSETF? 22:23:04 But you only have the one stream, right? 22:23:18 It's standard output. 22:23:22 mon_key: Never mutate literals unless you know EXACTLY how wrong it can go. 22:23:34 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-sulkvrhdiyipeyba] has joined #lisp 22:23:57 reb``: But you're just writing sexps, and not anything with more delicate formatting? 22:23:59 I guess I can redirect my logging data to a log file. 22:24:05 correct 22:24:30 Umm... Trying to remember if gray streams provide a sexp-writing hook. 22:24:45 nyef_: it's the EXACTLY part I'm trying to understand (-: 22:25:32 mon_key: Then stop trying. 22:25:42 Anyway, if I write to a dedicated log file and use a mutex and still see nuls, then something is screwy in the I/O code .... 22:25:46 Mutating a literal is dangerously stupid. 22:26:29 nyef_: OK 22:26:37 reb``: Right. But until you have a thread-safe log stream (or use a mutex, which amounts to the same thing), you can't know if your problem is in the I/O code or not. 22:26:47 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 22:28:17 Sounds good ... I saw these nuls in output from Lisps that died shortly afterward because of a lack of heap space. I fear the events are related. 22:28:20 Thanks! 22:28:25 Good luck! 22:28:43 -!- Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:29:22 mon_key: For what it's worth, I've found very few places in which it is "safe" to modify something that is a literal or marked as constant. 22:30:00 It's generally safe to modify symbols, for example. 22:31:12 You can create an array and then use it as a literal in a function with #. if you're doing runtime compilation or using load-time-value if you're doing file compilation. And in the latter case, you get slightly more efficient code if you tell SBCL that it's a "constant" value. 22:32:28 But just a literal cons? I had a program blow up the /second/ time I ran it because I accidentally mutated one of those. 22:32:29 nyef_: Thanks. I try to be more careful with array but am easy to forget about conses and lists 22:32:34 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDE6BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 22:33:14 nyef_: FWIW i just got a "Control stack guard page unprotected" with this one: 22:33:26 (let ((consed (cons 'a 'b))) (shiftf (car consed) consed) consed) 22:33:26 22:33:26 Uh-oh. 22:33:47 Ah. 22:33:49 Heh. 22:33:52 :) 22:34:04 What's *print-circle* ? 22:34:20 killed my image already 22:34:29 I'll give you a hint: It's NIL. 22:34:34 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:34:43 mon_key: do you read lisptips.com? 22:34:43 Either that, or *print-pretty* is NIL. 22:35:03 Xach: Not yet this week. but i have been 22:35:09 I think it has something to do with like self-referential conses, doesn't it? 22:35:27 There is some kinda thing that does that 22:35:35 mon_key: this was tip #1! 22:36:01 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDE6BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:04 So that if you say like #1=(programmable . #1#) the repl won't hang 22:36:10 But I'm not sure that's the same thing 22:36:44 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:37:20 Xach: that would explain why psetf/rotatef are top of mind... 22:38:51 Oh, right. rotatef vs. shiftf. My bad. 22:39:11 nyef_: with *print-circle* t it doesn't bork 22:39:44 Instead, it returns... #1=(#1# . b) ? 22:39:53 yes sir 22:41:04 it always returned that, just didn't always print it... 22:41:11 oh, sorry. misread "it returns" 22:42:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:42:12 Right, without *print-circle* it gets deeply lost in trying to print the result. 22:42:57 -!- reb`` [user@nat/google/x-zihaijjjibpokhoh] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:44:18 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:44:21 so what is the rationale for *print-circle* defaulting to nil? 22:44:38 mon_key: it's easily unreadable. 22:45:07 pkhuong: OK. makes sense 22:45:23 rpg [~rpg@h66-173-37-86.mntimn.dedicated.static.tds.net] has joined #lisp 22:45:27 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 22:46:16 ... seriously? /That's/ the justification for the most dangerous default setting in common lisp? 22:46:25 It's complex code. It makes everything slower. 22:46:39 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 22:46:42 drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:55 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 22:46:59 Slightly more plausible, but a decision that should have been revisited as soon as 7MHz machines were available. 22:47:00 I can think of various reasons. (I really prefer limiting recursion depth) 22:47:09 reb`` [user@nat/google/x-opkdwuvejwvzoohb] has joined #lisp 22:47:37 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 22:48:39 ISTR griping to stassats about slime's repl not defaulting *print-circle* to t about 6 months back... 22:48:43 Yeah, but the default depth isn't limted, either. 22:49:18 And, really, with presentation-based interfaces, we should be able to limit to some level and then /expand/ given branches when necessary. 22:50:11 well if presentations are in effect the performance impact of *print-circle* prob. isn't the bottleneck for slime/swank ;) 22:50:29 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:50:43 pkhuong: nyef_: Xach: Thanks for your input! 22:52:16 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:52:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:53:00 -!- vert2 [vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-loehxbsfkgdifucy] has quit [Quit: gone] 22:54:57 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:56:07 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 22:56:26 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:56:36 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 22:59:33 lemonade` [~rw@71.178.183.215] has joined #lisp 23:00:55 anybody know of some resources that go in depth on how to use macros and issues with them, not necessarily specific to lisp, but more like for source code preprocessing? 23:01:46 ... wasn't there one on macros specifically in the context of the LispM? 23:02:04 lemonade`: A rather Lisp specific book would be Let over Lambda, by Doug Hoyte. 23:02:08 lemonade`: Very inspiring. 23:02:25 lemonade`: scheme and racket in particular have a lot of stuff on the topic. 23:02:44 lemonade`: are you talking about Lisp macros or `m4' style macros? 23:05:12 -!- lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp3741.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:05:48 nyef_: you mean Graham's book? 23:05:54 -!- dadano [~jajana@108.59.8.76] has quit [] 23:06:04 No. Absolutely not Graham's book. 23:07:14 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:07:28 akovalen` [~anton@95.72.100.120] has joined #lisp 23:07:35 mon_key: like m4, but I haven't been able to find out how to use m4 effectively, so the door is still open. they could use parentheses and prefix notation, but I'm not fixed on either way. 23:08:05 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.72.100.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:08:16 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:22 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 23:08:31 lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp3741.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 23:09:23 mon_key: I'm interested in using it with C and/or assembly. 23:09:48 lemonade`: I'd ask in ##c or an assembly-oriented channel then. 23:10:12 Bike1 [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 23:10:17 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Client Quit] 23:10:47 Otherwise, there are lispy assembly languages (and C front-ends) that are macro-friendly. 23:11:35 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 23:16:25 yeah? like what? 23:16:40 -!- acelent` is now known as acelent 23:17:03 -!- tonyg [~tonyg@173-203-78-111.static.cloud-ips.com] has left #lisp 23:17:52 scexp, comfy, some other ac.jp project. 23:18:48 *nyef_* has some code lying about for spitting out a PE executable from a semi-lispy assembly source. 23:19:10 internal assemblers like ccl's or SBCL's. 23:19:56 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.126.160] has joined #lisp 23:21:19 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:21:50 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@80.202.238.175] has left #lisp 23:22:38 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:22:53 -!- prip [~foo@host233-122-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:23:22 hba [~hba@187.171.196.7] has joined #lisp 23:23:33 cgo [~user@99-123-152-51.lightspeed.tukrga.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:23:46 *DualDetroit* just jacked off to pictures of Madonna as a dancer from 1976. 23:23:47 -!- Harag [~phil@41.146.231.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:23:57 She is SO HOT 23:24:36 -!- nyef_ [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:25:20 *DualDetroit* wants to tattoo Madonna on himself repeatedly. 23:25:41 kloeri, Xach; word. 23:25:52 Kron [~Kron@69.166.20.161] has joined #lisp 23:25:58 *kloeri* stares at DualDetroit 23:25:58 hmm how come (remove-from-plist) does not have :test parameter 23:26:10 *DualDetroit* hides. 23:26:18 -!- Kron is now known as Guest53322 23:26:23 A plist is supposed to be a list of symbols, isn't it? 23:26:44 djanatyn` [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:52 -!- djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:26:57 well but I want to remove keywords/value pairs based on predicate, not on a static list of keywords 23:27:01 maxm-: you mean ALEXANDRIA:REMOVE-FROM-PLIST ?? 23:27:05 yea 23:27:15 -!- Guest96813 [~Kron@69.166.20.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:27:34 triliyn: plist keys are compared with EQ, so yes, symbols. 23:27:51 plist can have duplicate entries right? 23:27:59 thanks for the suggestions everybody 23:28:03 er duplicate keys 23:28:41 *maxm-* went overboard a bit with customizing my qt dialogs framework, and I'm defining qt properties per widget, such as (def-qwidget-property :grid grid :spacing val) (grid.setSpacing val) 23:28:42 mon_key: yes, but the first hit shadows the following. 23:29:23 pjb: right, so wouldn't specifying other than EQ be redundant? 23:29:34 so then I need to remove values from the (:grid ... .. ... :spacing 10 ...) line, which would have looked perfect as (remove-from-plist grid-row :test #'qwidget-has-property) 23:30:07 leaving just the grid elements 23:31:38 no big deal, but IMHO if you alexandria models/names plist api after remove/delete, then it should support :test keyword, otherwise its kind of a tease 23:32:10 maxm: Maybe scrape source of remove-from-plist and give MEMBER an arg for KEY? 23:32:21 waveman__ [~tim@124.170.43.134] has joined #lisp 23:32:23 yea thats what I'm doing 23:32:48 or switch to a-list. assoc takes a :key argument. 23:33:21 well I'm trying to unclatter dialog creation as much as possible, laying out dialogs programatically is really cluttery 23:33:42 maxm-: ok. 23:33:47 prip [~foo@host233-122-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 23:34:15 I considered using assoc lists instead, but even stuff like: (:grid (:row (:cell (:label "one" (:align :right))))) gets cluttery quickly 23:34:36 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDE6BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 23:34:49 maxm-: in a DSL, you may also use plain symbol, and define them as functions or macros to "interpret" the form. 23:35:21 so I'm syntax-sugaring it as much as possible, ie (:grid ("&Label :margin 5) (make-combobox model 'slot)) 23:36:14 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:21 to define a nice looking dialog you usually have at least 3x nested grids, so non-clutter is important 23:36:29 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDE6BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:34 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDE6BE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:37:00 plus I'm doing all the property/widget/layout types as defmethods eql-specializing on keywords, so its kind of flexible 23:37:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:38:13 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:38:14 -!- benkard [~benkard@mnch-4d04c8b0.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:45:55 V-ille1 [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 23:46:21 -!- V-ille1 [~ville@dsl-olubrasgw1-ff2fc100-74.dhcp.inet.fi] has left #lisp 23:48:27 -!- rpg [~rpg@h66-173-37-86.mntimn.dedicated.static.tds.net] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:49:07 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839B7D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:49:44 -!- Elizabeth_ [~Elizabeth@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:50:39 -!- ignas [~ignas@user-188-33-160-40.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 23:51:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@74-112.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:53:18 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:12 doritos [~joshua@c-76-118-155-244.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp