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[~sabalaba_@67-194-12-119.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:50:30 -!- wildnux is now known as nepnux 01:50:53 -!- nepnux is now known as wildnux 01:52:43 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 01:54:00 wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.158.54] has joined #lisp 01:59:02 how do we read a "list" from the standard input (console)? i tried (read-line), it returns string, also tried (read), and passed (a b c) but it says (a b c) is not a symbol 02:00:29 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:02:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:03:31 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-pxuomfayrumyjxfp] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:04:16 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 02:04:38 reb` [user@nat/google/x-ndsfmjewfwplshrb] has joined #lisp 02:09:02 -!- H4ns [57bd7ec7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.126.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:09:15 -!- bgs100 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spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pzfzvrzeabnmdsuv] has joined #lisp 03:33:34 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:34:59 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.11] has joined #lisp 03:39:20 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:42:34 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:46:04 -!- Salamander_ is now known as Salamander 03:47:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:50:35 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: under the bit stream] 03:54:29 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:54:31 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:58:20 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B3260A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:50 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@80.130.188.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:03:33 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 04:07:07 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.20.161] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 04:23:49 -!- jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:25:57 wildnux [~wildnux@137.56.163.46] has joined #lisp 04:26:01 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@137.56.163.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:26:42 wildnux [~wildnux@68.191.210.216] has joined #lisp 04:28:11 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:29:50 if anybody cares, ai-class.org is nowhere near as good as the AIMA book 04:30:50 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:34:36 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 04:53:56 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 04:55:11 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:03:12 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 05:13:20 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:14:12 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 05:14:27 that is good to know 05:14:41 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:16:54 Phoodus: Do they not use the AIMA book? 05:26:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:29:55 waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has joined #lisp 05:30:47 psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has joined #lisp 05:30:50 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has left #lisp 05:36:04 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:43:05 sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-25.brutele.be] has joined #lisp 05:43:11 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:47:12 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 05:51:06 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:52:42 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 05:53:24 levi: the first two lectures have followed sections of AIMA closely. 05:53:38 cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.84] has joined #lisp 05:53:38 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.131.84] has quit [Changing host] 05:53:38 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:55:07 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:58:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:04:02 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:04:06 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:05:34 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.84.5] has joined #lisp 06:07:27 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:09:59 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 06:10:04 gko [~gko@27.242.171.72] has joined #lisp 06:10:06 lnostdal [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp3741.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:10:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-odlmbxbsxroqzxuj] has joined #lisp 06:10:32 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-odlmbxbsxroqzxuj] has quit [Changing host] 06:10:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:10:37 KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 06:12:36 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 06:13:02 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 06:13:39 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:53 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:16:10 -!- sigi-ntb [~sigi@host-213-189-171-25.brutele.be] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 06:16:13 -!- lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:17:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:20:19 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.51] has joined #lisp 06:23:54 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 06:25:01 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:27:22 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.51] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:31:47 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:32:03 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.5.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:32:10 good morning 06:35:26 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.13.214] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 06:35:31 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:38:39 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:43:11 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:45:03 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ncolzersbuogonnj] has joined #lisp 06:47:34 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:48:55 hi mille e nove 06:50:50 z1l0g [jgw@miku.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 06:51:38 z1l0g: are you ixys now? 06:51:47 no 06:51:56 ok 06:52:51 nostoi [~nostoi@28.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:27 anyone else signed up for that atanford AI class? 06:53:38 *stanford* 06:54:04 peter norvig is one of the instructors 06:54:25 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:54:53 apparently they've got over 160,000 people from 90 countries signed up - huge 06:57:17 stanford is abit off hand for me, maybe torvergata 06:57:38 off hand? 06:57:53 is not near to me 06:58:09 the class is free and online 06:58:20 ai-class.org 06:58:20 wow 06:58:29 I am taking it. Looking through the AIMA lisp code as we speak. 06:58:39 Sometimes I feel like having something like this on #lisp: http://onefte.com/2010/05/27/ 06:58:41 it's just started but I think you can still enroll 07:01:47 I'm a beginner WRT lisp and quite rusty on my linear algebra so I'm just watching the lectures 07:02:13 z1l0g: I'm at first lesson 07:03:01 someone on the regit site posted a link to the regular stanford AI course and you can get nicer course notes than what's being shown in the online videos 07:03:26 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:04:39 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:39 there's also a machine learning, and Intro to DBs being offered free/online 07:07:59 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:08:52 -!- Harag [~phil@41.146.227.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:09:56 recently picked up Steven Tanimoto's book which will probably suit me better WRT learning but I'm still kind of excited to participate in this online course thing 07:09:57 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:10:34 *z1l0g* yawns 07:10:42 time to snooze 07:10:47 -!- z1l0g [jgw@miku.sdf.org] has quit [Quit: night] 07:12:01 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:12:10 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:12:13 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.178.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:13:02 flip214: are you watching the norvig/thrun lessons? 07:14:01 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:16:36 Posterdati: still have the sicp lectures to watch ... how much are they, more than an hour a week? 07:16:59 dunno I'm watching it right now 07:17:28 hugod [~hugod@70.24.178.204] has joined #lisp 07:18:55 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 07:21:19 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@28.Red-79-154-132.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 07:24:24 -!- elliottcable is now known as elli 07:26:10 -!- surrounder is now known as hoverrounder 07:26:21 -!- hoverrounder is now known as surrounder 07:28:13 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:28:21 -!- elli is now known as elliottcable 07:28:57 -!- pchrist_ is now known as pchrist 07:30:25 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:33:50 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:34:00 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 07:34:45 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:36:26 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-62-144.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:36 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:37:41 -!- elliottcable is now known as llttcbl 07:38:12 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:38:12 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:38:24 good morning everyone 07:41:49 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:41:58 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:42:02 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-nnszjfudyyuahvtf] has joined #lisp 07:45:58 -!- llttcbl is now known as elliottcable 07:52:59 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.11] has joined #lisp 07:56:27 manenko [~user@94.232.208.225] has joined #lisp 07:57:38 shiinjo [~rishavkha@49.244.240.172] has joined #lisp 07:58:09 -!- shiinjo [~rishavkha@49.244.240.172] has left #lisp 08:00:16 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 08:01:49 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:02:21 replor___ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 08:02:54 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:40 wildnux: (read) and then inputing (a b c) should return (A B C). 08:05:42 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:06:43 wildnux: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125259 08:13:45 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:14:07 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:16:56 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 08:18:30 turnipseed [~csimonm@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 08:25:49 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 08:26:04 superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 08:28:25 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:29:39 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:30:19 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:30:51 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 08:30:52 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:15 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:33:38 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-153-195.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:43 -!- topeak [~topeak@61.149.227.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:34:15 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-191-250.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:34:46 topeak [~topeak@61.149.227.121] has joined #lisp 08:37:05 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-217-31.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:38:21 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: leaving] 08:41:25 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-lzdowlqrjzbarjgo] has joined #lisp 08:41:31 Guthur [~yaaic@212.183.128.15] has joined #lisp 08:44:24 syrinx__ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 08:45:14 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 08:49:45 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68.191.210.216] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:50:10 -!- replor___ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:50:27 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 08:51:54 reb`` [user@nat/google/x-jgddbzbzsnocoszc] has joined #lisp 08:52:16 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-ndsfmjewfwplshrb] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:53:47 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:55:42 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:55:50 hello 08:56:13 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:56:20 Davidbrcz [~david@193.54.120.175] has joined #lisp 08:56:43 i've been rewriting my code and i'm getting better results, thanks to your comments :) but still i'm wondering about one thing 08:57:33 i often happen to have (defun foo (x y) ..) and i want to map it in a way that y is fixed and x are from a list 08:57:42 is there any shortcut way to do it? 08:57:57 dRbiG: alexandria:curry for example 08:58:22 (mapcar (curry #'foo 'fixed) (list ...)) IIRC 08:58:48 yes, curring seems to be good; what i did now is that i've written a little iterator maker that returns a lambda 09:00:22 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 09:00:25 morning all 09:00:26 Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@193.54.120.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:03:03 -!- turnipseed [~csimonm@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: adieu.] 09:03:18 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:03:43 and I happen to have this strange problem http://paste.lisp.org/display/125264 09:04:00 the lastep and nextep bound in let* seem to go missing later on 09:06:40 dRbiG: s/(lastep)/lastep/ & s/(nextep)/nextep/ for episode-delta calls 09:07:39 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:45 -!- gko [~gko@27.242.171.72] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:08:14 akovalenko: true just seen it a few second ago 09:08:28 gko [~gko@110-28-113-174.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 09:08:54 but still it's a mystery for me why the (second nextep) is replaced by # in backtrace 09:08:59 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-107.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:09:14 dRbiG: (locally (declare (optimize debug)) ) ;; fewer mysteries, more sense 09:11:29 # is printed by the pretty-printer when *pprint-level* is exhausted. IIRC it's rebound in SBCL debugger... 09:11:45 * *print-level* 09:14:10 H4ns [2e731667@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.115.22.103] has joined #lisp 09:18:05 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 09:18:26 i'm sure my problem is in the way i'm trying to do it... i've changed it a bit and it works; still rather ugly though 09:20:16 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:20:23 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125265 this works fine 09:20:35 dRbiG: fwiw, with a known list, i prefer (rest list) to (subseq list 1). 09:21:31 dRbiG: and you don't need to apply format, since it can unpack lists with ~{~}. 09:21:56 *Xach* has a very difficult time reading the indentation 09:23:50 udzinari [user@nat/ibm/x-mctraulbmgxmzebh] has joined #lisp 09:24:05 Xach: the indentation looks okay in vim where i edit, it seems to get broken when i paste it 09:24:25 dRbiG: you probably have tabs in that file. 09:24:35 dRbiG: and a non-standard tab width setting. 09:24:58 dRbiG: tabs do not belong into source files. 09:25:30 Xach: so if i have a list with 2 elements as an arg to format can i do ~{~D ~A}? i thought ~{} is iterating on arguments, i don't want to iterate 09:25:53 H4ns: most probably, i'll have to fix it later 09:27:04 dRbiG: if you plan to get support here, i'd recommend that you'd rather fix it sooner 09:27:29 dRbiG: (just as a suggestion) 09:28:06 H4ns: roger that :) 09:29:42 H4ns: standard tab width is what? 09:29:52 i prefer no more than 4 09:30:03 dRbiG: standard is to not use tabs at all. 09:30:18 H4ns: right, i mean then how many spaces ;) 09:30:46 dRbiG: common lisp indentation is not oriented around tabs. normal indentation is two spaces, but there are exceptions. 09:31:01 dRbiG: quite frankly, i never care about the details because my editor does. 09:31:22 2 then, thank you :) 09:32:30 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:33:06 dRbiG: try (format t "~{~D ~A~}" (list 42 t)) 09:33:21 dRbiG: when it comes to helping you with your code: it is hard to tell what it tries to do, partly because of the indentation errors, partly because it is not transparent what the structure of the data structures is that are being processed 09:33:53 dRbiG: it seems that you're using lists to represent your data structure. that is rarely good for more than an initial prototype. use clos classes instead. 09:34:13 dRbiG: or, if you want to avoid that, provide accessors with meaningful names. 09:35:05 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:35:15 beaumonta [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 09:36:06 i think i solved the indentation: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125266 09:36:47 looks better now, agreed 09:36:49 -!- xharkonnen_ [~xharkonne@2.26.51.144] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:37:35 but still broken 09:37:38 though still some one-space-off 09:37:44 indeed 09:38:48 dRbiG: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125266#1 09:40:18 -!- beaumonta is now known as abeaumont 09:40:28 jdz: yes got that right 09:40:45 i've just learnt how to reindent whole file in vim, good 09:40:56 plus the settings are okay now 09:41:51 akovalen` [~user@95.73.223.202] has joined #lisp 09:42:21 dRbiG: if you're using vim, use the slimv plugin: http://www.vim.org/scripts/script.php?script_id=2531 09:42:37 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:43:43 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.97.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:44:38 -!- akovalen` [~user@95.73.223.202] has quit [Client Quit] 09:46:24 -!- reb`` [user@nat/google/x-jgddbzbzsnocoszc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:46:28 reb`` [user@nat/google/x-zihaijjjibpokhoh] has joined #lisp 09:46:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:49:55 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:50:25 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:52:01 akovalenko [~anton@95.73.223.202] has joined #lisp 09:52:05 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 09:52:47 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:53:09 Xach: indeed, thank you. 09:53:39 now what i see is that if i'm getting ugly code it means i'm doing something wrong, really wrong :) 09:56:19 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.73.223.202] has quit [Client Quit] 09:56:46 akovalenko [~anton@95.73.223.202] has joined #lisp 09:56:49 Sometimes you need ugly internal code to make nice external interfaces. 09:58:05 but i assume that's the case when you know exactly what you are doing; right now i know what i want to get, not sure how to get it, hence ugly code = bad idea, nice code = good idea 10:00:09 "Beauty is truth" 10:00:10 -!- H4ns [2e731667@gateway/web/freenode/ip.46.115.22.103] has quit [Quit: oo] 10:03:02 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:03:50 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.235.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:04:59 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.113.21] has joined #lisp 10:05:17 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-64.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:06:13 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:06:50 -!- manenko [~user@94.232.208.225] has left #lisp 10:06:50 -!- bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 10:07:26 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:11:26 theBlackDragon [~dragon@79.132.235.102] has joined #lisp 10:15:53 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-64.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:16:50 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-64.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:55 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.70] has joined #lisp 10:21:17 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:21:38 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-224-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:22:59 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:23:11 -!- Guthur [~yaaic@212.183.128.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:25:34 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:26:52 -!- elurin [~user@85.99.69.174] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:27:41 H4ns [d4b9ea9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.185.234.157] has joined #lisp 10:29:09 manenko [~user@94.232.208.225] has joined #lisp 10:31:02 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:32:48 dRbiG: get emacs, then google vimpulse and install it, you'll have exact copy of vim written in Elisp 10:32:58 how do you muffle compiler-note ? 10:33:12 i just wanted to muffle it for run-program "blahblah" 10:33:27 dRbiG: then google multi-tty preload-emacs connect-emacs, and you'll have you new "vim" start in under 0.1 second 10:34:09 i don't want the process exited status message..... 10:34:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-189.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:34:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-189.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 10:34:54 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:35:07 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:36:29 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 10:41:10 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:42:16 -!- topeak [~topeak@61.149.227.121] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:42:54 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 10:43:56 wbooze: you getting this under sbcl? I don't remember such 10:44:52 you probably just getting the result of (run-program) which is a process displayed in REPL... You can ignore it, or use (progn (run-program...) (values)) 10:45:21 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:46:38 -!- gko [~gko@110-28-113-174.adsl.fetnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:49:27 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:50:03 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 10:51:40 HugoDaniel [~hugo@193.136.113.58] has joined #lisp 10:52:58 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-156-17.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:53:30 maxm: thank you very much, the last form did it 10:55:00 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-153-195.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:57:37 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:59:56 Hi, I've a problem when I try to quickload the package stefil. The .asd file is in utf-8 but asdf try to open in ascii. [http://paste.lisp.org/display/125269] 11:00:53 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.121.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:01:07 stefil author names have utf8 chars in them in the .asd file 11:01:15 yes 11:01:27 Is there a way to use :utf-8 instead of :ascii? 11:01:37 is your slime connection utf-8? 11:01:59 yes 11:02:05 slime doesn't have to do anything with ASDF 11:02:35 daimrod: check your LOCALE. 11:02:52 slime connection dies when there is decoding error in the pipe, so just asking and it defaults to non-utf8 11:03:21 I'm in utf-8, in LOCALE/slime/swank/ 11:03:26 maxm-: it's irrelevant to this problem 11:04:11 daimrod: how do you know? is the value of sb-impl::*default-external-format* :utf-8? 11:05:21 thats probably it, mine is iso-8859-1 11:05:46 maxm-: that sounds interesting :) i'll check it 11:05:56 stassats: indeed it's ascii. 11:06:13 daimrod: that means that your locale isn't utf-8 11:06:41 so $ locale lies? 11:07:08 what does it say? where does it say? 11:07:34 looking from the sources it calls nl_langinfo whatever that is, I assume it comes from $LANG environment variable 11:07:45 LANG=en_US.UTF-8 + all the others in UTF-8. 11:07:45 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:08:00 daimrod: and what does (with-output-to-string (stream) (sb-ext:run-program "locale" '() :search t :output stream)) say? 11:08:01 do you have LANG=C? or not set? Try export LANG=en_US.UTF-8 before starting sbcl 11:08:18 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:08:28 its pretty much default on all modern linuxes, but ppl still have LANG=C in their old .profiles often 11:09:02 stassats: weird, all the values are set to POSIX :$ 11:10:16 in fact i think maybe SBCL should bind the default-external-format in load to utf-8 11:10:18 right, seems i'm exceeding buffers on some calls to s-http-client:do-http-request with sbcl saying "Line length exceeds buffer size (4096)"; is there a way to turn off line-buffering without hacking into s-http-client code? 11:10:40 because user has LANG=C does not have to mean (load) of utf-8 file has to fail 11:11:11 daimrod: that means that your emacs is started with this locale, probably from your window manager 11:11:25 locale is inherited by children 11:11:43 dRbiG: try drakma instead of s-http-client 11:14:51 H4ns: works perfect, thx 11:19:24 current: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125270 old: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125182 - i think i'm making progress 11:19:39 thanks for support 11:19:56 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:21:12 dRbiG: (if (null ...) .. ) is kind of redundant 11:21:26 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:39 dRbiG: in episodes-current, i'd use dolist. i'd also change the inner if conditional so that first the setf is performed, then the conditional is checked with when. 11:23:38 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 11:24:20 dRbiG: i'd only declare one variable per line in a let. also, i don't explicitly initialize with nil, as that is implicit if no initial binding is provided (and the parens can be left out in that case). that's a matter of taste, though. 11:25:47 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:26:52 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:27:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-pzfzvrzeabnmdsuv] has left #lisp 11:29:38 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-189.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:29:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:31:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:31:55 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-189.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Client Quit] 11:34:19 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 11:39:31 stassats: Thanks i've found the problem, Im trying to solve it now :) 11:41:04 Jamking48 [~arsalan_c@119.155.5.246] has joined #lisp 11:41:35 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:41:37 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-189.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 11:41:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:41:40 -!- Jamking48 [~arsalan_c@119.155.5.246] has left #lisp 11:41:43 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:41:50 -!- otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:42:06 otakutomo [~otakutomo@KD027083117212.ppp-bb.dion.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:45:18 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-136-64.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:46:25 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 11:47:01 -!- HugoDaniel [~hugo@193.136.113.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:47:35 H4ns: very redundant, corrected; the inner loop can as well be dolist, true; as for the episodes-current if i move the setf lastep before conditional then i'll endup with lastep = nextep; i like to have longer bindings per line but placeholders on one line, though i'll get rid of the redundant nils 11:48:22 dRbiG: ah, i misread the if thing in the center, scratch that 11:48:52 Ok, I've been spending way too much time on this. How do I execute arbitrary CL-side code from emacs with slime/swank?!?!? I tried slime-eval but it doesn't work worth shit for some reason. In particular I can't get it to READ from the right package, even when passing the package argument. It READs from *slime-io-package* instead, which doesn't even import CL... 11:48:59 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-66-211-13.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:29 H4ns: nah it just means that the logic here is not yet crystal-clear-readable :) 11:50:27 dRbiG: but on a stylistic side, i'd use (and ... ...) only when the return value is used. for control flow, i'd use when in this case. 11:51:14 whats the portable safe way to parse a float? 11:51:42 parse-number. 11:51:48 ie assuming user can type anything, I don't want them doing #\ or functions from readtable being invoked 11:51:49 ah 11:52:11 I meant standard way, is parse number a library? 11:52:21 it's a library. 11:53:04 ok thanks, works fine 11:54:07 H4ns: but i need the else part, it is: either overwrite lastep or set nextep and return, i don't see how i can put (when) there in any reasonable way 11:54:58 dRbiG: the else part is fine, but why not make the "and" in the else part be a "when" instead and put the (return-from ...) onto a new line? 11:55:31 dRbiG: i find it preferable to make expressions that change the control flow to be on separate lines 11:55:59 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-62-144.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:56:37 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 11:57:47 H4ns: i think i've got it: i don't need a test for when, or rather the setf will be a 'test' and the results will be the same as for 'and'... right 11:58:32 actualy it does make more sense when i read it now 11:58:35 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:58:37 with when instead of and 11:58:39 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:59:22 dRbiG: then, it appears as if sesnum could be defined inside of the outer loop 11:59:52 dRbiG: then you'd not have to use setf, but could initialize it correctly. when you stick with the complex loop, a for sesnum = (...) would do 12:00:49 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 12:01:03 or was it 'with holder = (...)'? 12:01:21 -!- manenko [~user@94.232.208.225] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:01:29 dRbiG: and if you decide to do that, you could also make nextep and lastep be loop variables of the outer loop (with nextep with lastep) and use a finally clause 12:01:48 dRbiG: i'm not a big loop fan, so i'd not have chosen it in the first place :) 12:02:21 (or was that return instead of finally? i guess return (values nextep lastep) it would be 12:02:46 i'm using loop here only because in this design i need to escape both inner and outer loop at the same time 12:03:10 erm, why is the clim-listener not respecting my kbd settings ? AltGr+* should return tilde but instead i get ] or so 12:03:10 man does slime have some way to C-c C-m the (macrolet ((frob ...)) (frob a) (frob b)) idiom? 12:03:25 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:03:34 *maxm-* is tired of copying (frob) to defmacro each time to debug, defeats the whole purpuse of having to type less 12:03:40 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:04:24 dRbiG: you could (return-from episodes-current (values nextep lastep)) 12:04:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:06:29 H4ns: not exactly, there is no guarantee that nextep will be found, so the return-from may not be called at all 12:07:04 and that's why i'm doing the (list ...) at the end 12:07:25 dRbiG: i don't quite get that - there is no difference in (return-from outer) and (return-from episodes-current (values nextep lastep)) 12:07:29 Hexstream: you just type your code and C-x C-e 12:07:31 dRbiG: but anyway. 12:07:42 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 12:08:14 pjb: No, I need this to set swank:*fasl-pathname-function* to something custom, from slime-connected-hook. 12:08:24 H4ns: i think that return-from outer gets me back to the next expres after the outer loop (the list), and return-from episodes-current escapes the whole thing 12:08:42 Hexstream: for init files, you have ~/.swank.lisp 12:09:02 pjb: Oh! 12:09:20 dRbiG: right, but you can (return-from episodes-current (list lastep nextep)) - that's what i meant to write, really 12:09:54 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:10:02 From the "How to (fail to) do easy things the hard way" dept. 12:10:02 dRbiG: but this is all splitting hairs at this point. if you use loop, you might as well use it more, that was i was suggesting 12:10:14 Hexstream: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125271 12:10:16 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.200] has joined #lisp 12:10:51 H4ns: i agree with that point. i'll probably have some though over that later. as of now i'm quite pleased. it's much better than my first attempt 12:11:04 -!- waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:11:11 turnipseed [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:47 the only thing missing is handling problems when http request get timeouted, if i implement that the functionality will be exactly the same as my ruby version 12:12:54 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-66-211-13.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:14:33 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.152.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:20:43 -!- nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:20:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 12:24:41 maxm: what is frob for ? 12:24:54 maxm: and is that builtin or your utility ? 12:24:55 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 12:25:22 wbooze: frob is standard name for a function/macro that you too busy thinking other names for (like foo or foobar) 12:25:47 wbooze: the (macrolet).. idiom at top level is when you want to make a one-shot temporary macro that is only usable in one place 12:25:48 ah ok 12:25:56 (maphash #'(lambda (k v) (declare (ignore k)) (setf (car (last v)) ... is setfing ok, but when it's (car (butlast v)) it's not, is it expected? 12:26:53 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:26:59 you probably have 1 element list in your hash 12:27:01 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 12:27:06 so butlast returns nil 12:27:29 francogrex: (butlast) copies your list, if you only use (car) on it the whole list copying is unneeded 12:28:16 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:28:17 ah that too 12:28:21 flip214: yes, I just realized that 1 second after I posted... I was just gonna say never mind, thanks anyway 12:30:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:30:39 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:31:20 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:31:21 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:31:31 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.168] has joined #lisp 12:34:21 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:35:34 maxm-: yes it was what flip214 told. Thanks 12:36:38 lol /me is quick on the draw usually.. I'm the type of person that finds it quicker to try 5 ideas rapidly, to find the right one, rather thin sit and think deeply enough to come out with an answer at 1st try 12:36:48 has its own advantages and disadvantages 12:37:30 maxm-: it took me a minute to see what butlast does ... I'd have tried 5 things too, if I was quick enough ;) 12:37:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:41:30 clhs nbutlast 12:41:44 probably wouldn't do what you want, though 12:41:54 the bot's been shot 12:42:22 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-nvzoiiiypkcbrxqm] has joined #lisp 12:42:38 anyway, if you want to use LAST or BUTLAST you might want to rethink your algorithm 12:43:57 I'm trying to get C-c C-k fasls out of the way, please help: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125272 12:44:16 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:45:05 do you really want them to be stored hierarchically? 12:45:42 stassats: Well, yeah, otherwise they'd conflict if I have foo/main.lisp and bar/main.lisp, no? 12:45:54 no 12:46:06 I don't understand how that would work. 12:46:10 unless you're very quick at pressing C-c C-k 12:46:43 i just have (setq slime-compile-file-options '(:fasl-directory "/tmp/slime-fasls/")) in my .emacs 12:46:47 Hexstream: I added annotation for the method I'm using 12:47:06 it makes C-c C-k use ASDF to determine output location 12:47:31 Hexstream: i don't understand how that wouldn't work, what do you have in mind? 12:48:42 Hexstream: about your method does the directory tree exists? I don't think (load) automatically creates the directories recursively, you have to ensure it exists 12:48:43 stassats: I hadn't really thought this through, I didn't realize that the C-c C-k fasl would only be used just after compiling... 12:48:54 alkoma [~alkoma@98.207.166.94] has joined #lisp 12:50:02 maxm-: It would have been created by the compilation if things had worked like I thought I wanted them to... Anyway, I'll just use (setq slime-compile-file-options '(:fasl-directory "/tmp/slime-fasls/")). 12:50:23 and there's actually little point in keeping the fasls (unless they are in the same place where ASDF will look for them) 12:50:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:50:34 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 12:50:43 perhaps there should be an option to delete them after C-c C-k 12:50:54 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:52:14 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:52:30 there's little point in having the fasls at all if you're not going to put them where ASDF can find them. Just use C-c C-l to load the file 12:53:22 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.168] has joined #lisp 12:53:36 C-c C-l isn't equivalent to C-c C-k 12:53:40 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.42.107] has joined #lisp 12:53:52 or rephrasing, load isn't sufficient sometimes 12:54:00 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:54:10 what times? 12:54:31 actually, scratch that. I'm being sbcl centric 12:54:53 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:56:11 dlowe_lt: forward references, compile-time only side-effects 12:56:14 Woo! It works now. Thanks guys. (I did have to create the fasl directory manually.) 12:56:17 tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:56:42 elurin [~user@85.99.69.174] has joined #lisp 12:56:57 The visual clutter in directories was really killing me. 12:58:06 and C-c C-l doesn't highlight compiler errors in slime 12:58:08 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:58:49 i have (make-directory "/tmp/slime-fasls/" t) in my .emacs as well 13:01:06 dwim [~dwim@124.Red-88-18-194.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:02:40 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 13:04:28 Yuuhi [benni@84.131.204.144] has joined #lisp 13:06:41 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 13:07:03 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 13:07:28 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:09:50 stassats: hi 13:10:19 stassats: please, help time ago you suggest me a gui for lisp programs to use with sbcl 13:10:31 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:52 i don't remember that, but the only thing i could suggest is commonqt 13:11:11 yea on linux is commonqt, on windows/macos not sure 13:11:18 commonqt as well 13:11:59 *maxm-* is into insane territory on doing the settings dialogs for his app 13:12:36 Posterdati: the AA library is nice, http://aa-project.sourceforge.net/ 13:12:37 I have (make-combobox model slot), it automatically extracts (using clos) type from the slot (ie (integer 1 100)), creates and attaches qt validator 13:12:51 flip214: is it under X11? 13:12:55 all the model<>view staff is specialized on model slot slot-type 13:13:07 Posterdati: yes, via xterm 13:13:08 with defaluts for integer/number/real/etc 13:13:09 (don't listen to me) 13:13:59 flip214: like dos? 13:14:07 so all I have to do is add (some-slot :type (integer 0 100)), and its creating edit fields for it is a snap with full validation, undo, etc 13:15:20 and I can specialize on model and slot name to do custom processing when needed 13:16:05 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:16:11 Posterdati: look at the bb demo if you've got a chance 13:16:29 flip214: I need a graphical environment 13:16:41 Posterdati: http://packages.debian.org/sid/bb 13:16:52 Posterdati: I'd suggest QT, too 13:17:58 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:03 flip214: qt is perfect, how can I program with this? 13:18:59 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:19:16 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has joined #lisp 13:19:19 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:19:23 by pounding your fists on the keyboard 13:19:26 quickload qt 13:19:42 start playing with it 13:19:55 (qt:paint-my-dialog-but-really-quickly :sys 64738) 13:20:26 flip214: something wrong with your head today? loghorrea? 13:20:45 maxm-: thanks 13:21:02 flip214: (destroy-flip-computer :apply sys64738) 13:21:16 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:21:24 Posterdati: for basics just google commonqt, their home page has a nice rundown on how it works 13:21:39 maxm-: thanks 13:27:29 H4ns: why do you think so? because of this answer, or the correct one re butlast? 13:27:59 flip214: no, just wondering. can't make sense of what you write. it's probably me. 13:28:58 sorry, that was an insider joke, not suitable for #lisp ... 13:29:16 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:22 and for loghorrea, take a look at http://forums.thedailywtf.com/forums/p/25099/268992.aspx#268992 13:29:23 G'morning all. 13:32:36 maxm-: no quicklisp for commonqt? 13:33:10 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:14 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-nvzoiiiypkcbrxqm] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:33:14 (ql:system-apropos "qt") 13:33:34 hikarudo [~hikarudo@201.86.41.191.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:33:34 paul0 [~paul0@187.58.226.227] has joined #lisp 13:34:10 hi nyef 13:37:55 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 13:41:50 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:44:26 nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.140] has quit [Quit: Offline] 13:48:18 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 13:49:01 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:05 hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:42 If anybody is looking to give yet another Python FFI binding a try, and is feeling daring (what docs it currently has are mostly about the internals and hidden away in docstrings and comments), burgled-batteries could stand some feedback. 13:52:09 A (very) brief overview of the high-level bits, and the location of the darcs repo, can be found at http://pinterface.livejournal.com/39435.html 13:52:11 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 13:52:11 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:52:34 ... Is this "our" python, or that-other-python? 13:52:51 Python-the-language, not Python-the-compiler. 13:52:53 their-python-on-ours-lisp 13:53:00 Ah, that-other-python. 13:53:33 pinterface: can you expand a little on cl-python problems? 13:53:46 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:54:01 as in, what do you mean by "resources" 13:55:32 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.254] has joined #lisp 13:55:37 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-qaplwwvlpeqakbtm] has joined #lisp 13:56:00 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:16 RAM, CPU, Time. I gave up on "import feedparser" after several hours. (To be fair: on a computer from the 90s. My linux box is pretty old.) 13:56:35 Here's a nickel, kid... 13:56:40 lol 13:56:45 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has left #lisp 13:56:53 pinterface: I would kinda like to try that. Is it hard to set up? 13:57:07 are you sure it takes so much time not because of a bug or something? 13:58:02 in any case, why not just write in python directly? 13:58:28 hi everyone 13:58:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:59:07 (null '()) is equal to (endp '()), right ? So, what is the difference between these two intructions ? 13:59:21 (null 1) and (endp 1) are not equivalent 13:59:30 Xach: Assuming you already have Python, it should be as simple as darcs get, #'asdf:load-sytem. (Assuming you avoid the groveller. Otherwise you'll probably have to worry about the path to Python.h) 13:59:52 stassats, (endp 1) doesn't work for me... 14:00:05 because 1 is not a list 14:00:05 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99.62.136.133] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:00:10 does null work? 14:00:17 yes 14:00:22 does that answer your question? 14:00:28 (null 1) returns nil 14:00:37 I think 14:00:56 (endp) only works for lists 14:01:02 stassats: Dunno. Didn't investigate the bug angle. I just assume when something takes a long time it's because I'm long overdue for a hardware upgrade, because, well, I am. :) 14:01:10 pinterface: no, i mean the slow one. 14:01:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:03:07 cl-python? No, that was as easy as (ql:quickload "cl-python") 14:03:28 and then (clpython:run "import feedparser") or similar? 14:04:09 Something like that. 14:04:57 hah! clpython breaks because i set *print-length*. well, not "hah!" I guess I should send a bug report. 14:05:21 you need to install feedparser first 14:05:57 That helps, yes. 14:05:59 i have feedparser. the file feedparser.py.lisp produces by clpython is full of "..."s. 14:06:06 produced, rather. 14:06:12 it fails for me on "error opening #P"/usr/share/pyshared/feedparser.py.lisp"" 14:06:53 and i don't know how to change the place where it should put its staff 14:06:56 I get what looks like an SBCL error: The value NIL is not of type SB-C::CLEANUP. 14:07:23 ... that seems familiar, somehow. 14:07:41 and why does it put its variable into CL-USER? 14:07:52 namely, COMMON-LISP-USER::*CLPYTHON-MODULE-SEARCH-PATHS* 14:08:21 stassats: perhaps to be able to configure the system without loading it. 14:08:22 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:08:47 Xach: Something like lp#404441 maybe? 14:09:03 Xach: but that sounds like a bad solution 14:09:13 stassats: what's a good solution? 14:09:24 stassats: i've run into this issue before, not sure what the right fix is. 14:09:35 ~/.clpythonrc.lisp 14:10:04 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 14:10:13 I am not sure that is less ugly than a special variable in cl-user. 14:10:15 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:10:40 and you can do more things with cl-python than just setting this variable 14:11:10 nyef: sounds like it 14:11:19 whats cl-python? 14:12:14 el-maxo: http://common-lisp.net/project/clpython/ - an implementation of Python in Common Lisp 14:13:12 ... this test case is painful to look at. I wonder if there's a more minimal example? 14:13:32 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:15:06 an example of just because you can't does not mean you should 14:16:07 anyone knows the difference between (nreverse) and (reverse) ? 14:16:26 CLHS does 14:16:37 hakzsam: Yes. Per CLHS, one is "destructive". 14:17:37 ok, so nreverse is "destructive" 14:17:44 nreverse is destructive and doesn't cons 14:17:55 the n stands for "no cons" 14:18:05 zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-8-214.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:08 ok 14:18:16 nreverse _may_ not cons 14:18:25 I think nreverse is faster than reverse too ? 14:18:58 Honestly, using destructive functions initially falls under premature optimization 14:18:58 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:18:59 because nreverse doesn't need to create new cons cells, I'm right ? 14:18:59 i should be but it's leff functional and might lead to strange bugs if you're sharing data 14:19:14 er...less functiuonal 14:19:32 grr...functional 14:19:37 dlowe: Tell that to SORT. 14:19:43 hakzsam: maybe modifying existing cons cells is slower than creating new ones? 14:19:55 nyef: there's no non-destructive counterpart to SORT :p 14:20:02 jdz, I don't know 14:20:03 dlowe: My point exactly! :-P 14:20:21 there's (sort (copy-seq ... 14:20:24 functitutional 14:20:34 Fine. Using destructive functions initially when there's a non-destructive function available falls under premature optimization 14:20:48 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 14:20:55 If you insist on a context-free predicate statement 14:21:16 funnily enough SBCL non-destructive set operations are much faster then destructive ones (at least I remember being bitten by that a few years back) 14:21:25 bugs due to destructive operations on shared lists are pretty wicked... 14:21:26 Oh, there's still plenty of context required to parse that. 14:21:35 nintersect and friends 14:21:45 ok, thanks for your explanations :) 14:22:03 nyef: context-freer :p 14:22:22 Bah. Leave freeing your contexts to the GC. 14:23:43 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:24:43 is this hard to write the reverse function for a newcomer ? (in order to better understand its behaviour) 14:24:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:00 agains nreverse, of course 14:25:03 *against 14:25:10 it's not hard to write a reverse function 14:25:25 hakzsam: you just recurse down the list consing the element onto the rest of the list 14:25:30 I'm going to write that 14:25:47 and you don't need to use recursion 14:25:58 ok 14:25:59 by consing down the list you reverse them 14:26:17 stassats: you never need to use recursion, but sometimes it makes things easier 14:26:28 kruhft: and this is not the case 14:26:36 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:28:10 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 14:28:12 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.5.83] has joined #lisp 14:28:27 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:28:36 -!- Kron is now known as Guest29182 14:28:42 codelurker [~codelurke@c-65-96-210-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:04 -!- Guest29182 is now known as Kron_ 14:29:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:30:38 kruhft: sometimes recursion makes the stack explode 14:30:51 -!- zenbalrog [~chatzilla@adsl-98-86-8-214.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:30:53 yes, sometimes 14:31:07 especially when dealing with lists of arbitrary length 14:31:19 recursing that is 14:32:04 you would use tail-recursion in this case (if you're insane enough to use recursion in this case) 14:32:51 should i just have reccomended dolist? 14:32:52 so, this is a correct implementation for (reverse) http://paste.lisp.org/display/125274 ? 14:32:57 urandom__ [~user@p548A25CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:33:01 I used the recursion however 14:33:06 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:33:15 it is correct, albeit bogus 14:33:46 and it's possible to make that without recursion ? 14:33:46 stassats: then write it the correct way and show us how it's done 14:34:13 you make it sound like it's something hard 14:34:26 you make it sound like you know the perfect way of doing it 14:34:39 programming is a learning experience 14:34:51 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125274#1 14:35:18 indeed, it's not easy to understand :] 14:36:00 anyone's using mcclim and climacs with sbcl ? 14:36:01 maybe suggesting the easy way of writing a function to a beginner is a bit better? 14:36:17 and let them figure out the right way on their own as they start to understand more? 14:36:33 I'm learning the code 14:36:41 *reading, sorry 14:37:26 reversing a list (without recursion) is so trivial, any suggestion will contain the whole answer 14:37:32 ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 14:37:33 kruhft: leaving figuring out the right way to beginners does not sound a great idea 14:38:07 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 14:38:07 It's the lisp way. 14:38:15 lol 14:40:15 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:40:47 -!- Guest31252 is now known as prip 14:41:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:43:07 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-205-53.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:44:55 The SBCL implementation of REVERSE was clever 14:45:18 was? what happened to it? 14:45:20 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:45:48 it was renamed esrever 14:45:53 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:12 jdz: yes, but learning to do things the right way takes time and often more knowledge than a beginner will have 14:46:48 i just looked at reverse in SBCL, it's essentially the same as what i showed 14:47:27 kruhft: that's why you want to leave them to figure out the right way on their own? 14:47:58 jdz: maybe there's more than one right way 14:48:05 the right way is hard for newcomers however 14:48:16 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:48:23 jdz: growth in a field does not come from blindly following the old timers 14:48:42 kruhft: it doesn't come from repeating all the old timers' mistakes either 14:49:22 dlowe: but how do you know they are mistakes if you don't make them yourself? 14:49:38 there's an app for that 14:49:42 kruhft: because you listen to your elders 14:49:48 *dlowe* waves his cane around. 14:49:48 of course this is turning into a discusson on the philosophy of learning 14:50:29 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:50:45 dlowe: one should take the words of their elders into consideration... 14:50:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.254] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:51:03 kruhft: that's listening 14:51:07 kruhft: you should study and understand the problem, approaches, and solutions 14:51:39 dlowe: listening and taking into conseration are two different things 14:51:46 which isn't blindly following anyone, it's learning what people have already done 14:51:56 *Xach* stares at http://www.xach.com/misc/lambda.html to relax 14:51:59 kruhft: look back at where this metadiscussion started, and admit that you were wrong in this particular case. easy as that. 14:52:21 Xach: i wasn't sure if that was an optical illusion or not at first ;) 14:52:27 jdz: he took my advice and wrote the function, i don't consider what I told him to be wrong 14:52:42 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:53:21 jdz: he was able to take how I told him to do it and write it...pretty good for a beginnger...then a block of code was thrown at him on how to do it the "right way" and he didn't understand it, but then he was studying it and will learn more about the right way after doing it a way that he understands 14:53:46 jdz: sometimes it's better to learn to walk before you run 14:54:23 *nyef* just tried to use a ";;-comment" in objective-c. 14:54:48 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:54:54 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.254] has joined #lisp 14:55:25 nyef: i often start writing C functions with (defun .. 14:55:56 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:56:12 hakzsam: (endp 1) works perfectly well. It is specified to signal an error, and it does that without any failure. 14:56:17 My usual slip is to switch format/printf styles 14:56:31 dlowe: Using emacs can't be helpful with that, either. 14:57:03 I find myself needing DEFMACRO in Java... 14:57:37 hakzsam: the point of using endp instead of null, when processing proper lists, is to get this error when you get a dotted list. On the last cdr of a dotted list, null would just return nil, and you may or may not detect an unrelated error later. endp has the advantage that the error specifically denounce the fact that it wasn't passed a proper list. 14:58:20 MrMc [~user@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 14:58:54 hmmm, i got even the fishes to run on mcclim, but the scigraph demo app is too old i think..... 14:59:03 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:59:03 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 14:59:15 gives unmanageable amounts of errors with sbcl,..... 14:59:48 pjb, ok, so, it's better to use endp instead of null for lists ? 15:00:12 -!- udzinari [user@nat/ibm/x-mctraulbmgxmzebh] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:32 I mean (if (endp list) l) instead of (if (null list) l) 15:02:36 yes. 15:03:15 ok, thanks 15:03:19 Notice however that endp doesn't help anymore than null for circular lists. 15:04:15 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.158.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:09:32 -!- syrinx__ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:10:05 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-189.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 15:10:22 sid3k [~user@li298-167.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 15:10:35 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:01 hi all. I need an advice about being ethical and professional. this is not #lisp subject but I think lisp coders will give the best advice about it 15:13:16 we have an advice: listen to the bearded guys with canes 15:13:45 somebody sent me an e-mail saying "we liked one of your open source apps and would like to explore the ways we can work together. let me know when/where I can reach you" 15:13:59 and then pick which advice you ignore carefully 15:14:22 the somebody works for a well known company that I would love to work for but I already got hired by another company recently. 15:14:27 sid3k: and don't use #lisp as a spam filter 15:14:31 *Xach* wonders about Tron3k 15:15:48 sid3k: this is not a good forum for discussion. if someone wants to help you via private discussion, that is much preferable. 15:15:53 so, I don't want to be an asshole because the company I'll work for sponsored my work visa, also 15:15:56 discussion of that topic, anyway. 15:16:36 Xach: which forum do you recommend? 15:16:47 I have no recommendations. 15:16:49 sid3k: maybe stack overflow? 15:17:00 consult your lawyer 15:17:02 you're right 15:17:04 stack overflow is for programming questions. 15:17:41 felideon: just a suggestion 15:17:45 -!- cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:18:27 guys, could you tell me how do you behave in this situations? I'll not accept any new career opportunity but I want to be nice also. how can I do it? I'm on the beginning of my career and need some advise... 15:18:40 sid3k: Take it elsewhere. 15:19:44 sid3k: perhaps a forum on monster.com or something similar 15:20:18 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:58 hikarudo_ [~hikarudo@201.86.41.191.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 15:21:10 -!- hikarudo [~hikarudo@201.86.41.191.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:21:10 -!- hikarudo_ is now known as hikarudo 15:22:05 -!- dwim [~dwim@124.Red-88-18-194.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dwim] 15:22:54 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 15:23:34 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:25:40 sid3k: So, tell them that your options are currently limited in that regard, but you might be interested in the future. Also try to get a free lunch. 15:27:13 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:42 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:28:48 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.121.249] has joined #lisp 15:31:10 Zhivago: haha :) 15:35:29 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:35:33 What is the problem ? Is there a limit of arguments ? http://paste.lisp.org/display/125275 15:36:39 the problem is that you're using recursion 15:37:18 You have n problems and you use recursion. Now you have n-1 problems, so you use recursion. 15:37:34 yes, but I don't know how to write this function without recursion, I'm sorry :/ 15:37:54 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:40:57 what are you using to learn lisp? 15:41:13 dlowe: Heh. Nice example. 15:41:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:49 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:42:04 stassats:Writing production software 15:42:18 stassats, I'm using some exercices on the web :) 15:42:19 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:20 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:42:24 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A25CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:42:37 evidently, they're not good enough 15:42:47 take a look at Practical Common Lisp 15:43:02 ok 15:43:59 dlowe: What happens if you no longer have any problems, or if you only have half a problem? 15:43:59 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:44:27 you go into a bar 15:45:11 Ahh... And the following morning you have at least one problem. 15:45:19 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:45:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-136-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:24 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ncolzersbuogonnj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:47:42 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 15:48:08 -!- Kron is now known as Guest97371 15:49:19 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 15:50:16 -!- turnipseed [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:51:37 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 15:52:14 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.42.107] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 15:53:21 superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-49.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:53:43 HG` [~HG@tmo-111-92.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 15:55:04 anyone can explain to me what the function (reduce) does ? because I don't understand the related doc in the hyperspec... 15:55:48 hakzsam: read PCL 15:55:55 (reduce (lambda (e i) (cons i e)) '(1 2 3) :initial-value '()) --> (3 2 1) 15:56:21 (reduce (lambda (e i) (list '+ i e)) '(1 2 3) :initial-value 0) --> (+ 3 (+ 2 (+ 1 0))) 15:57:13 gensym, I'm reading PCL at the same time 15:58:13 pjb, mmh.. I think I understood its behaviour, thanks ! 15:58:16 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 15:58:30 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:33 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.254] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:02:41 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 16:02:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.168] has left #lisp 16:03:15 -!- HG` [~HG@tmo-111-92.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:44 hakzsam: otherwise, there's a limit on the number of argument a function can take. This limit is indicated by the constant call-arguments-limit. It's at least 50. (But it can be as low as 50). 16:04:36 hakzsam: so you must write: (if (< (length args) call-arguments-limit) (apply '+ args) (reduce '+ args)) or just (reduce '+ args), instead of a bare (apply '+ args), if args can be long. 16:05:37 How can I see the value of call-arguments-limit ? 16:05:42 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:06:25 I mean +call-arguments-limit+ doesn't work 16:06:26 It's a constant variable. 16:06:30 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:06:40 yes, I know 16:06:45 Yes, the constant vvariables in the CL package don't follow the +...+ convention. 16:07:00 pi, call-argument-limit, most-positive-fixnum, etc. 16:07:02 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-65-96-210-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:07:16 so, I can't see its value ? 16:07:23 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:07:40 Just type: call-argument-limit C-x C-e 16:07:41 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:07:45 (or RET in the REPL). 16:09:25 thanks 16:11:05 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:11:40 cheezus [~Adium@208.124.149.214] has joined #lisp 16:13:51 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-49.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:14:07 pjb, I got this error (with (length args)) -> warning: undefined variable: ARGS 16:14:21 ah sorry :) 16:14:41 wrap it in (let ((args '(1 2 3))) ...) 16:15:18 it was because the args parameter didn't exist ... 16:16:01 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-nnszjfudyyuahvtf] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:16:40 Yes, I should have written (lambda (arg) ...) 16:17:02 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:17:41 superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-49.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:03 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.121.249] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:20:45 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: going home] 16:21:47 -!- surrounder [~user@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:25:29 surrounder [~user@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 16:27:35 -!- Guest97371 [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:24 xharkonnen [~xharkonne@2.26.51.144] has joined #lisp 16:35:01 SegFault1X [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:36:39 -!- KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:39:33 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:59 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:43:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-107.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:43:26 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-107.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-151.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:44:50 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-151.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:46:37 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:16 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:47:52 rTypo [~rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has joined #lisp 16:48:49 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.15] has joined #lisp 16:49:52 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.96] has joined #lisp 16:53:12 hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-166-137-138-237.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:24 faust45 [~Adium@128-212-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:51 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.176] has joined #lisp 16:56:40 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:58:50 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-76-254-17-145.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:59 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:01:15 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:04:15 *maxm-* is building a monstrous function for building qt dialogs in one shot. 17:04:41 (make-layout (:grid ... (:grid :ok :cancel))) etc. 17:05:17 HG` [~HG@tmo-111-92.customers.d1-online.com] has joined #lisp 17:05:40 maxm-: looking forward to it 17:05:51 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 17:06:01 Zabolekar [~Zabolekar@p548491A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:56 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 17:10:24 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:13:09 maxm-: Cool. Have you ever looked into how CLIM handles specifying window layouts? 17:15:03 -!- Zabolekar [~Zabolekar@p548491A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has left #lisp 17:15:25 -!- cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has quit [Quit: -> home] 17:16:09 hi 17:16:24 is there a Date control in commonqt? 17:18:27 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:20:12 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 17:24:25 -!- anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:24:56 -!- elurin [~user@85.99.69.174] has left #lisp 17:26:57 -!- MrMc [~user@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:27:44 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:58 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 17:33:35 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:33:53 -!- rTypo [~rTypo@pc54.clicknet.iasi.rdsnet.ro] has quit [] 17:34:33 nyef: no I'll take a look, but there are only a few ways to skin a cat.. S-EXP's are pretty natural in expressing box inside a box inside a box type stuff 17:36:12 turnipseed [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:37 -!- turnipseed [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:40:55 astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-34-131.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:42:55 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@98.207.166.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:43:37 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@141.212.58.64] has joined #lisp 17:44:33 turnipseed [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 17:46:24 maxm-: True enough. Actually, the whole CLIM layout stuff actually ties into the adaptive toolkit bit, which is kindof cool in and of itself, but possibly overkill if you're just doing one backend. 17:50:06 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 17:50:18 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:50:33 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-166-137-138-237.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:54:30 electriceel [~chatzilla@59.96.60.138] has joined #lisp 17:55:05 hikarudo_ [~hikarudo@189.26.32.8.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 17:55:31 -!- electriceel [~chatzilla@59.96.60.138] has quit [Client Quit] 17:57:03 -!- hikarudo [~hikarudo@201.86.41.191.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:57:04 -!- hikarudo_ is now known as hikarudo 17:57:05 ered [~reed@38.110.6.187] has joined #lisp 17:57:49 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:58:37 -!- ered [~reed@38.110.6.187] has left #lisp 17:59:20 ered [~ered@38.110.6.187] has joined #lisp 18:00:10 I'm having a strange thing happen. With my current codebase, I can save a core and the app functions. But when I add a method and then try to save the core, I'm thrown into ldb even without trying to call the method 18:00:41 The specific error before hitting ldb is no size function for object at 0x0077fc20 (widetag 0x20) 18:01:18 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:01:31 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:02:06 (sbcl 1.0.51 on mac osx lion, through macports) 18:02:52 Neat! 18:02:54 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 18:02:59 Especially since 0x20 isn't a valid widetag. 18:03:24 Oh, wait. I know that message... It's trying to take the widetag of the pointer, not the header... 18:04:01 So, OSX, "no size function", while dumping core... I know I've heard of this one before... 18:06:08 samebchase_ [75d37b3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.211.123.62] has joined #lisp 18:06:14 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:08:06 Hrm. And that's an oddly low-seeming address. 32-bit lisp? 18:08:37 64-bit I believe 18:08:46 That's what file tells me anyway 18:09:13 nyef: there used to be some address printing confusion in the GC. I don't know that we fixed all the occurrences. 18:09:27 ered: threaded or not? 18:09:28 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 18:09:34 pkhuong: Yeah, I think one of the fixes is in the wider-fixnums tree and applied cleanly. 18:09:35 pkhuong: yes 18:10:02 ered: known (but misunderstood) heisenbug. Random changes in the runtime or code makes it go away. 18:10:11 Where in the standard is the d0 syntax specified? 18:10:12 For my part, it's the main reason I consider threads experimental on darwin. 18:10:15 Unless that address is being truncated to 32 bits, it's not in any of the core spaces? 18:10:31 Qworkescence: Start with chapter... 2, maybe? 18:10:39 drewc! 18:10:56 nyef: ISTR both truncation and address/word-at-the-address confusion. 18:10:56 Qworkescence: Something about "potential number syntax", and then interpretations thereof, if memory serves. 18:11:04 Oh, joy. 18:11:29 It'd be nice if we could provoke it reliably, or get actual reliable data when it does bite someone, you know? 18:11:43 I'm looking in 2.3.1.1 18:12:11 Something like half of my aborted trees trigger it... 18:12:36 Clearly, I'm going to have to start doing OSX builds, since I have the hardware these days, and experience sorting out GC brain damage. 18:13:08 nyef, Oh, the term for the "d0" is "exponent marker" 18:13:22 and the glossary explains that 18:13:35 Qworkescence: Well, the "d" part, maybe. The 0 would be the exponent itself, wouldn't it? 18:13:41 Qworkescence: So, found what you were looking for? 18:13:55 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-lzdowlqrjzbarjgo] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:14:35 nyef, yes 18:14:37 and yes 18:16:11 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:18:54 Xach! :) 18:19:34 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 18:19:48 drewc: I wanted to show you something I threw together for html scraping 18:21:22 paradoja [~paradoja@acceso-cmp174-188.lpa.idec.net] has joined #lisp 18:22:05 please do, I'm here and today it's lisp + postgres, so I have time to read things that are not postgres docs on ROLE 18:22:46 *nyef* shudders. 18:23:07 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8D92.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:23:11 I'm fairly certain I'm going to have to add a Real Database to my current server at some point. Hopefully not before December, though. 18:23:37 Already have some test code for using postmodern, though. 18:24:09 postmodern is <3 18:24:18 Not arguing with that. 18:24:29 Far better than dealing with anything heavier-weight. 18:24:31 is lisp paste down? 18:24:41 oconnore: What effect are you seeing? 18:25:20 oconnore: The bots are offline, so pastes sent to a channel will get a blank response page once made instead of a proper announce, but that's about the only way it /should/ be down. 18:25:27 nyef: I submit and the screen goes white, no response 18:25:34 ok 18:25:43 oconnore: And if you do get that, if you look at the main page soon enough, you'll find your paste in the recent list. 18:25:53 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:25:59 It's on my list of known issues that I'd like to fix "soon". 18:26:17 ah that worked 18:26:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125280 18:26:24 i am using Postmodern + ROFL for this one, yet now i am adding users to 18:26:30 ROLES 18:27:08 oconnore: Either an outer LOOP or a TAGBODY or something like that. 18:27:21 benny [~benny@i577A76D7.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:27:21 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-094-218-038-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:33 nyef: while we're at it, is common-lisp.net:8585 going to start working? I've installed emacs interface for lisppaste, and I would like to use it, but... 18:27:45 which means a lot of work on both code and database, which means my head is not quite right at all 18:27:59 nyef: Couldn't the condition just occur in the outer loop/tagbody? 18:27:59 akovalenko: ISTR that that was killed because some group of idiots kept spamming it. 18:28:27 oconnore: At a certain point, you have to draw the line when it comes to asynchronous events. 18:28:44 (And that point is the beginning. Dear god do asynch interrupts suck.) 18:31:42 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 18:32:08 -!- Kron is now known as Guest66309 18:34:24 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:08 *p_l* managed today to possibly bring a little bit of CL into his year-long coursework project - in the form of Allegro Graph :D 18:38:35 -!- cheezus [~Adium@208.124.149.214] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:38:37 p_l: I look forward to the screams of pain from the person trying to make your code run when assessing it 18:38:52 Krystof: :3 18:39:36 Actually, it might be "wow, he smuggled it past everyone" - it pays to be in the AI track, where faculty members fondly recall times before Java XD 18:39:53 heh 18:41:03 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:41:04 still, our data is a graph, and it would be annoying to fit it into something different (we are doing metrics of scientific papers) 18:41:13 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:43:11 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:57 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 18:46:53 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:59 I'm using emacs color-themes, zenburn, but in CL fn names, keyword symbols and parameter specifiers are all the same colour 18:47:22 anyone know how to specify a different colour for keyword symbols, for instance 18:47:23 ? 18:47:28 p_l: some of my friends (admittedly not the lispers) have had success with 4store 18:47:56 Guthur: you could place the point over whatever face you want to change and try customize-face 18:48:13 that'd probably be an across-the-board change (i.e., in all modes) but might be what you want 18:48:27 M-x customize-face, that is 18:48:43 cfa: ah cool, might give me a hint at what to change in the theme.el 18:48:48 Guthur: Failing that, grovel through the slime code looking for "font-lock", see if you can find the actual source-element-to-face mapping. 18:49:20 Guthur: well, if you do customize the face using the customisation system, it'll append the relevant changes to your .emacs (assuming you haven't specified a different customize settings location) 18:49:32 i.e., you needn't modify zenburn 18:49:40 -!- samebchase_ [75d37b3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.211.123.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:50:01 ah, coolio, cheers cfa and nyef 18:50:04 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 18:50:10 np 18:50:17 Guthur: Good luck. 18:51:59 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 18:52:26 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:51 drakma: awesome. 18:53:52 that is all 18:54:08 not surprisingly i think it is font-lock-keyword-face I want 18:54:53 cheezus1 [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 18:55:18 was cl-soap recently removed from quicklisp? 18:55:25 felideon: it was. 18:55:41 http://blog.quicklisp.org/2011/10/october-1-quicklisp-dist-update-now.html#comments has some context 18:55:58 is cl-json the go-to json library? 18:56:22 ah thanks, forgot about the blog 18:56:31 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:56:43 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:57:02 wha...? NSArray objects can't have an element set to nil? WTF? 18:57:24 Xach: something like (ql:why-not "cl-soap") and (ql:print-news-from-blog) would be neat :) 18:57:52 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:50 akovalenko: i could overload cl:rationalize! 18:58:58 ha ha 18:59:10 maybe/maybe-not 18:59:29 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.15] has joined #lisp 18:59:32 (typep (why-not) 'real) ;; or maybe it's just an excuse 19:05:34 samebchase_ [75d37b3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.211.123.62] has joined #lisp 19:06:02 paul0_ [~paul0@177.16.145.55] has joined #lisp 19:06:28 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.58.226.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:06:28 -!- paul0_ is now known as paul0 19:06:53 cfa: I think that is the case. Its the only json lib I have used at least 19:07:02 the_next_degener [~quassel@223.183.182.59] has joined #lisp 19:07:22 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:07:38 bobbysmith007: k, thanks 19:08:00 -!- ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has quit [Quit: brb] 19:08:45 -!- the_next_degener [~quassel@223.183.182.59] has quit [Client Quit] 19:09:15 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 19:09:47 dx_kid [~quassel@223.183.182.59] has joined #lisp 19:10:32 -!- cheezus1 [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:11:00 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.5.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:11:27 how can I make a function which returns two lists ? 19:11:41 (lambda () (values (list ..) (list ..))) 19:11:43 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:12:27 thanks 19:12:31 nyef_ [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:47 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:13:50 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:14:31 wildnux [~wildnux@137.56.163.46] has joined #lisp 19:14:58 -!- H4ns [d4b9ea9d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.212.185.234.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:15:21 pkhuong: You were right about it being a osx thing, works fine on linux 19:15:27 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:15:30 -!- dx_kid [~quassel@223.183.182.59] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:15:42 -!- samebchase_ [75d37b3e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.211.123.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:17:18 Is it the lutex scan action that's blowing up? 19:17:28 yeah 19:17:30 easyE [n1ij34PBru@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 19:19:37 nyef_: I've always wondered why that "portable futex with pthread primitives" thing is not used everywhere -- it seems to be portable enough.. 19:20:18 akovalenko: Aside from the occasional failure to save a core file, you mean? For starters, futexes are supposedly lighter-weight. 19:20:35 akovalenko: pretty sure it doesn't like interrupts on OS X. 19:21:32 Nothing likes interrupts, some stuff just deal with them better than others. 19:22:09 *akovalenko* thinks that everybody hates async unwinds (by signals) when they are there, and everybody misses them when they aren't.. 19:23:06 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:23:12 Umm... Quick question. Since when were we guaranteed that dynamic space pages were contiguous in SLAD? 19:23:15 something that tries to pretend that two paired actions (mutex acquisition/condition-wait) are atomic probably likes them less than just about anything else. 19:23:23 nyef_: forever? 19:23:53 Really? 19:23:59 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 19:24:14 pretty sure. cheneygc has that, and gencgc has had that compacting step for a long while. 19:24:55 Hrm... And none of the pages are supposed to be pinned at that point, because we're in SLAD... 19:24:59 francogrex [~user@109.130.156.70] has joined #lisp 19:25:10 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 19:25:27 2005-10-12, at least. 19:26:09 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.117.60] has joined #lisp 19:27:14 Hrm. Found a possible bug in the non-x86oid gencgc handling of pinned objects during SLAD. 19:27:18 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-21.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:27:48 Boy, if I had a nickel for every time I heard that. 19:27:59 Xach: You'd have a nickel? 19:28:09 you'd buy a real computer? 19:28:11 I want to improve the following function http://paste.lisp.org/display/125282, do you have any hints, please ? (the code is quite horrible) 19:29:06 hakzsam: LOOP COLLECT INTO with a FINALLY clause. 19:29:11 hakzsam: don't use mapcar there. Use dolist. 19:29:16 hakzsam: i've seen worse. at least it works! you could use PUSH instead of setf+cons. and you could use dolist instead of mapcar, since you don't need the collected results of the mapcar. 19:29:26 (loop for i in list if (funcall ...) collect i into a else collect i into b ...) 19:29:55 stassats: Exactly! 19:30:15 (values (remove-if-not predp list) (remove-if predp list)) ;; not really 19:30:31 mmh.. I don't want to use loops yet 19:30:37 Xach: i'd actually use that! 19:30:53 hakzsam: What do you think MAPCAR is, then? 19:31:21 nyef_: it's purrre and fuuunctional 19:31:40 Xach, your solution is good, thanks ! 19:31:42 "I don't want to use loops yet", yeah, I think it's way too early to use loop 19:31:53 You could use series. (split-if (scan list) predp (complement predp)) 19:31:55 nyef_, indeed, mapcar probably uses loops, that's true 19:32:05 Xach: hahaha. so much for not really 19:32:16 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:32:37 francogrex: it's almost 5pm already! 19:33:11 hah, I don't touch loop before 9 PM 19:33:23 gabnet [~gabnet@77.193.63.149] has joined #lisp 19:36:58 cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:02 -!- cheezus [~Adium@cmr-208-124-149-214.cr.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:40:19 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:40:37 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:42:12 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:49 dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 19:46:52 -!- prip [~foo@host233-122-dynamic.53-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:47:49 ex: (format t "~{~a ~}" (list 1 2 3 nil 4)) is there a way to change the printing of nil to "" (without changing the list itself), so that the output looks like 1 2 3 4 ? 19:48:04 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:48:40 (format t "~{~@[~a~] ~}" (list 1 2 3 nil 4)) 19:49:31 hmm nice; I wonder how you knew that (and I didn't) 19:49:39 i'm smart 19:49:48 nicely put 19:50:20 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 19:50:42 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 19:51:30 new version with dolist and push http://paste.lisp.org/display/125283 19:51:40 however, I need to use nreverse or reverse now... 19:52:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.213.183] has joined #lisp 19:53:25 hakzsam: on lists you just created locally, you can safely use nreverse. 19:54:09 that's why I used nreverse here :] 19:54:10 With loop: (loop for item in list if (funcall predp item) collect item into a else collect item into b finally (return (values a b))) 19:54:33 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 19:54:35 (defun partition (predicate list &aux (parts (list nil nil))) (dolist (item list (values-list (mapcar #'nreverse parts))) (push item (nth (if (funcall predicate item) 0 1) parts)))) ;; just kidding 19:54:50 &aux, ugh 19:56:01 &aux is a _great_ company for do- 19:56:46 a strange definition of great you got there 19:57:14 pjb, thanks for the example with a loop, but I need to read some documentation about that before to use it 19:58:18 what is the objection to &aux? never used it myself, but it occurs to me it could be a succinct way of avoiding a let 19:58:26 but it seems to be bit taboo 19:58:40 df: the objection is that it's not needed 19:58:59 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:59:12 ISTR that there's one case in which it actually is needed for something, but it always struck me as kindof an odd corner case. 19:59:13 df: but we need something to feel bad about, eh? &aux is much less annoying taboo than loopophoby and the likes.. 19:59:14 but surely it's just a syntactic abbreviation? and lisp is full of them 19:59:33 df: it's a very good way to avoid using a let. but I have no idea why you would want to avoid let (-: 19:59:53 er, badly phrased, I just meant an alternative to using a let 20:00:01 if you want your code to look consistent, always use LET 20:00:31 if you want your code to look like Perl, use both, in a random fashion 20:00:46 nyef_: I like that they appear in the slime arglist display. lets you indicate to the user that something they might be interested is being bound (: 20:01:03 stassats: that is very good advice )`: 20:01:45 stassats: it's not like there's only one way to establish a lexical environment - that consistency is already gone if I start using destructuring-bind or m-v-b 20:01:45 antifuchs: But... what good does that actually do? It's not like the user can change the binding, it's not part of the public interface... 20:01:55 antifuchs: (defmacro defun-with-blackjack (...)...);; expansion may be (defun name (args &aux blackjack whores) "docstring" (declare (optimize (bugs 0)) ...)) 20:02:01 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.156.70] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:16 df: you can't use LET instead of d-b or m-v-b, or can you? 20:02:20 nyef_: the one place where it struck me as useful was in sb-bsd-sockets but I can't remember which function that was 20:02:29 no 20:02:55 but there certainly are aspects of lisp where 'there's more than one way to do it' 20:03:01 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@141.212.58.64] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:03:08 -!- Guest66309 [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:20 the only place where &aux might be used is BOA lambda lists 20:03:22 stassats: I've used LET*, M-V-L, and manually destructured the result once, to good effect. 20:03:38 nyef_: at any rate, yeah, the user can't change it, but at least you're saying "yup, we're taking care of that, too" 20:03:42 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:03:42 Ah, that's right. BOA constructors! I knew it was an odd corner case. 20:03:56 I'm not particularly arguing in favour of &aux, just curious about why it's so reviled 20:03:59 df: and usually there's only one proper way to do it 20:04:15 df: it puts internal stuff in the public interface. 20:04:22 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:04:23 when we want so introduce some bindings around defun body during macroexpansion, we need either &aux or some ad-hack code to pull up docstring and declarations in their right place. &aux is way better. 20:04:24 in other situations lispers seem to be happier to use whatever expresses what they mean most succinctly 20:04:24 the general idea is: use the most specific thing 20:04:36 the function name and the parameter list define the public interface (the signature) of the function. 20:04:44 pjb: ok, that's a good reason 20:04:44 &aux = C++ classes. 20:05:27 df: that's not really true, you wouldn't want to see my lisp golf code 20:05:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-21.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:05:38 &aux == C++ public classes, C structures ? 20:05:55 wbooze: are you a C++ programmer? 20:05:59 no 20:06:11 stassats: for example, I don't see anyone claiming when/unless are unnecessary because you can do the same with if, or vice-versa 20:06:11 then ignore the analogy. 20:06:36 df: but often you need IF and PROGN 20:07:09 right, and when is equivalent to that, but more succinct 20:07:42 not exactly, because it's more clear 20:08:00 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@137.56.163.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:08:34 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:09:29 yeah, by succinct I didn't just mean shorter, so that fits 20:10:42 huangho [~vitor@187.47.18.123] has joined #lisp 20:11:14 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: under the bit stream] 20:12:19 Amyn [~abennama@138.231.138.189] has joined #lisp 20:14:04 dx_kid [~quassel@223.191.76.179] has joined #lisp 20:14:46 -!- HG` [~HG@tmo-111-92.customers.d1-online.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:17:11 -!- dx_kid [~quassel@223.191.76.179] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:19:58 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:23 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:20:49 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.117.60] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:20:53 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:22:28 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:22:45 Okay, time I made myself scarce. 20:22:49 -!- nyef_ [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 20:22:58 at least i have a listener! 20:22:59 lol 20:23:13 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 20:24:09 but i can't drag'n drop things into it, nor copy anything from neither the kde env nor other apps per cut'ncopy 20:24:22 mcclim...... 20:24:27 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:41 and the listener's background is white as hell..... 20:24:52 i would change that if i could, don't know where to put that..... 20:25:01 you can't copy? how do you copy? 20:25:07 always thought white is a heavenly colour ;) 20:25:08 and there seems only syntax highlighting for .lips files..... 20:25:16 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 20:25:37 stassats: i can't copy, neither text from emacs nor from other apps say like text from mozilla or so..... 20:25:58 wbooze: how do you copy? 20:26:01 stassats: C-c, C-v or M-w, C-y 20:26:12 -!- dontbehero [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:26:23 and C-y in listener too 20:26:28 but it does not work 20:26:47 dwim [~dwim@124.Red-88-18-194.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:50 and even the C-space for selecting a region does not highlight the region to be selected 20:26:59 but one can copy tho 20:27:03 have you tried Shift-Middle-mouse-button? 20:27:08 just blindly 20:27:25 i only tried middle mouse button, but no shift 20:27:41 oh 20:27:44 now it worked 20:27:49 with the shift together 20:27:50 heh 20:27:57 ok, one thing less to bother 20:28:09 dontbehero [~proba@cpe-67-244-127-222.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:07 puchacz_ [~puchacz@87.194.5.99] has joined #lisp 20:29:30 wbooze: you still have the whole mcclim left 20:29:34 it's just that the climacs:climacs thing just gets non-responsive from time to time, especially when focusing on menu, ...... 20:29:52 -!- puchacz_ [~puchacz@87.194.5.99] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:52 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-129.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 20:30:02 stassats: i tried to draw stuff..... 20:30:11 stassats: i'm new to it, yes 20:30:18 -!- Kron is now known as Guest81119 20:30:24 well, give up while you're not sucked into it! 20:30:26 -!- Guest81119 is now known as Kron_ 20:30:33 ?? 20:30:50 what do you mean ? 20:30:54 i mean that mcclim isn't very good 20:31:07 what is good then ? 20:31:19 commonqt is one option 20:31:39 ltk is another ? 20:31:43 hmm, slime-who-calls kills my clisp connection 20:31:48 (works fine with sbcl) 20:32:03 cfa: so, don't use clisp 20:32:08 :) 20:32:24 i didn't want commonqt, since i thought it would depend on qt 20:32:26 are there known problems with slime<->clisp 20:32:31 cfa: So, don't use slime. 20:32:33 wbooze: it does depend on Qt 20:32:44 well, at least mcclim seems to be mostly lisp..... 20:32:48 mcclim depends on X11 or gtk 20:32:54 yes 20:33:02 X11 is ok...but nothing more..... 20:33:13 You can use a X11 server written in lisp. 20:33:15 thanks guys 20:33:25 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-76-230.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:33:25 but with Qt you get many things for free 20:33:27 well qt is ok too, but say i didn't have the qt libs........ 20:33:41 does it work on console too ? 20:33:49 like international input --- that doesn't work on mcclim currently 20:33:51 wait 20:34:05 erm, i mean something like a gui, ncurses interface ? 20:34:15 wildnux [~wildnux@137.56.163.46] has joined #lisp 20:34:17 neither mcclim x11, nor commonqt work in console 20:34:20 oh, unicode does not work on mcclim ? 20:34:28 -!- akovalenko [~anton@95.73.223.202] has quit [Quit: upgrading emacs-snapshot] 20:34:37 mcclim does support unicode 20:34:38 ok, good to know 20:35:07 it doesn't support different input methods 20:35:29 i see, when i show a file, but not when i edit a file, some characters not displayed properly....as boxes or weird chars..... 20:35:35 in mcclim 20:35:53 stassats: so i can't switch my kbd ? 20:35:54 alkoma [~alkoma@c-67-160-207-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:55 if you load mcclim-truetyp, it will be better 20:35:56 oh oh 20:36:04 ah ok 20:36:06 mcclim-truetype 20:36:18 wbooze: yes, you can't switch the layout 20:36:22 good, and what about the keyboard layout ? 20:36:25 bah 20:36:30 my bad 20:36:55 i wondered, why i couldn't get a tilde.... 20:37:56 akovalenko [~anton@95.73.223.202] has joined #lisp 20:38:16 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.117.60] has joined #lisp 20:38:57 so, have you tried mcclim-truetype? 20:39:21 not yet, but i will 20:39:32 it will make fonts look much better 20:39:33 i loaded mcclim-postscript or so 20:39:33 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:39:45 and i was able to test one of the demo apps 20:39:54 drawing in the listener 20:42:02 and created an application-frame app, from the examples on the mmclim page 20:42:05 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:42:31 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:42:34 tried to launch it, failed, cause i didn't put the frame on top-level or so 20:42:50 then tried again with top-level-frame and it succeeded 20:43:06 hmm, mcclim seems to be a good concept actually..... 20:43:14 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:43:19 just don't know why it's not continued... 20:43:20 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 20:43:31 the latest one is from 2008 or so 20:43:33 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:43:36 chicken and egg problem 20:44:02 nobody wants to use it because it's buggy, nobody wants to fix it because nobody uses it 20:44:33 what are the main problems with it ? 20:44:52 buggy as ? async stuff, threads ? 20:44:54 signals ? 20:45:12 many little bugs 20:48:53 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:49:15 seems, franz uses it without bugs....... 20:49:16 lol 20:49:43 franz's implementation of CLIM isn't much better, reportedly 20:49:51 (and it's not based on mcclim) 20:49:54 oh 20:51:00 *antifuchs* grrrrrs at stassats 20:51:13 it's bug-free and wonderful (-; 20:51:30 antifuchs: you're a franz user? 20:51:39 I maintain the franz CLIM (: 20:51:43 oh 20:51:45 lol 20:51:50 antifuchs: aha! 20:52:09 antifuchs: then why do you have CG? 20:52:16 antifuchs: meanwhile, I think I might got AllegroGraph into a project at uni. I doubt I could get more CL there :) 20:52:23 p_l: ! awesome (: 20:52:50 stassats: I was kidding, for the most part. a lot of CLIM is archaic and based on ages-old idealism 20:52:59 antifuchs: I spent half an hour explaining why it would be better to use graph database than whatever home-grown hodge-podge 20:53:00 -!- cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has quit [Quit: installing updates] 20:53:03 (which has now turned into dogma) 20:53:03 p_l: there can always be more CL 20:53:19 *Guthur* wants a minion chant 20:53:43 p_l: I take it they are considering their options now? (: 20:53:45 Guthur: it's a 5 men team. Only I know CL, and I predict I could maybe get one other person to learn it enough to be useful, maybe two 20:54:14 meh, they're at uni, that's the time to learn languages 20:54:17 antifuchs: I told them we are free till 50mln triples. Enough to do a demo for end-of-year 20:54:24 that'll take only 3 years 20:54:25 antifuchs: Does that mean it's not worth investing one's time in CLIM and using ltk/clqt/clgtk2/whichever modern wrapper/binding? 20:54:31 it gets harder to find the time the old you get 20:54:55 antoszka: nope - clim is very interesting (and cool!) to learn. I just don't think it's productive to actively make a GUI with it anymore 20:54:56 i vote for commonqt! 20:55:03 Guthur: we have a year to finish the project, and I feel the least advanced people haven't licked anything outside the courses so far 20:55:20 antifuchs: I find myself stealing bits from CLIM for other uses, though 20:55:27 antoszka: it has a lot of very very helpful concepts, and if you can live with a bit of ugliness and non-compliance to (what is now commonly accepted) UI friendliness, it's just fine 20:55:31 stassats: what happened to the dbus bindings of commonqt, are they still sucky ? 20:55:34 (well, i am involved in commonqt development, but i'm not as biased as antifuchs, because i'm not paid to do it!) 20:55:44 last time i couldn't get it to run just because of that or so.... 20:55:51 I need to finally sit down and write that portable command interpreter (based on CLIM commans) 20:55:54 *commands 20:55:56 haha stassats, sometimes I wish I wasn't paid to be working on this (-: 20:55:59 dbus bindings? i don't know what it is 20:56:30 p_l: yeah it's not only at uni, there is a guy at work who says he wants to be a great C++ programmer, when I ask him what coding he does outside of work he laughed at me and said he doesn't get paid to code outside 20:56:42 ... lol 20:56:46 eheh 20:57:19 I tried to explain about honing ones skills and the like, he just laughed some more 20:57:49 let 'em laugh 20:57:57 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:42 in a filestream, how can i use read to get the all the contents of 20:59:42 the stream instead of (do ((line (read-line stream nil).... 21:00:02 nicdev_: reading to string? 21:00:14 p_l: yes 21:00:19 alexandria:read-file-into-string 21:00:33 nicdev_: or google "common lisp slurp" :) 21:00:57 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-qaplwwvlpeqakbtm] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:01:02 stassats: p_l, thanx let me check both out 21:01:10 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@137.56.163.46] has quit [K-Lined] 21:01:10 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [K-Lined] 21:01:26 common lisp slurp doesn't really work with multi-byte characters 21:01:45 -!- Amyn [~abennama@138.231.138.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:02:29 antifuchs: Thanks. I looked briefly into it, and liked the concepts (at least those that I more or less understood). 21:02:44 antifuchs: If there's a freetype backend, good. 21:02:50 s/work/work well/ 21:03:35 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.15] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:48 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:04:13 Amyn [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has joined #lisp 21:04:14 Guthur [~user@212.183.128.15] has joined #lisp 21:06:57 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@77.193.63.149] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:08:31 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.84.5] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:10:58 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-216.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 21:11:20 drdo` [~drdo@85.207.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:12:46 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-76-230.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:12:55 -!- drdo [~drdo@77.54.207.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:13:17 cooldude86 [~user@97.67.180.114] has joined #lisp 21:14:10 -!- cooldude86 [~user@97.67.180.114] has left #lisp 21:14:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:15:38 -!- astalla [~astalla@dynamic-adsl-94-36-34-131.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Quit: Quit] 21:16:02 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 21:16:38 antoszka: yeah, freetype is there, and an all-cl truetype extension (: 21:17:16 :) 21:18:16 waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has joined #lisp 21:18:41 -!- waveman [~tim@124.170.43.134] has quit [Client Quit] 21:19:24 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:19:42 oudeis [~oudeis@79.177.201.46] has joined #lisp 21:20:21 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:20:59 Amyn1 [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has joined #lisp 21:21:31 -!- ZabaQ [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:22:21 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-67-160-207-86.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:23:01 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 21:23:49 -!- Amyn [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:24:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 21:24:28 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@aqu33-5-82-245-96-206.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:25:59 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:06 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:27:43 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:27:47 -!- Amyn1 [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:28:19 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:30:07 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 21:30:20 -!- ered [~ered@38.110.6.187] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:31:39 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-205-53.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:34:57 there's a working freetype2 package? 21:35:20 Amyn [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has joined #lisp 21:35:28 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:36:01 not sure what version it uses, but the mcclim-freetype extension used to work with freetype at one point (: 21:36:24 ah .. the only things i've seen are half-working hacks for freetype 1.x 21:40:44 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-76-230.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 21:40:46 ltriant [~ltriant@110.174.168.43] has joined #lisp 21:42:08 ah, well. there's also mcclim-truetype which doesn't rely on freetype at all, AFAICT 21:43:10 yes, that's the one i loaded mcclim-truetype i think.... 21:43:38 but still, editing files it shows all ok, but showing files, i have problems....displaying some chars... 21:43:46 hmmm 21:44:08 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:44:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:44:52 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.117.60] 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[~opera@188-240-42-69.alizone.ro] has joined #lisp 22:27:30 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:27:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:28:49 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:29:03 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:30:59 parabolize [~paraboliz@c-75-71-247-61.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:59 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:31:45 manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDDF6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:01 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@pD9FDDF6C.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 22:36:29 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:36:38 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-51-40.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:39:50 -!- fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-094-218-038-236.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: humhum] 22:40:56 -!- huangho [~vitor@187.47.18.123] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:45:22 urandom__ [~user@p548A5F25.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:47 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@79.177.201.46] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:50:14 -!- levabalkin [~opera@188-240-42-69.alizone.ro] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:50:33 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:51:18 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-54-232.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:53:15 The inverse corollary to Clark's third Law: "Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced." 22:53:43 psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has joined #lisp 22:53:47 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-151.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:53:47 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has left #lisp 22:53:57 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-138-151.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:55:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:30 I often find that CLOS "feels" like magic. 22:57:08 Not so much so with the curly-braced PL. 22:58:00 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:02:36 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.45] has joined #lisp 23:06:22 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-223-23.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:07:25 -!- wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-216.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:08:22 er. Clarke not Clark 23:08:44 mon_key: This is GCC-9.9-AIenabled, (c) 2037 Free Software Foundation [...] W: sufficiently smart compiler is instinc..ingis..indisting.. Internal compiler error. 23:10:15 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:40 I wonder. Perhaps in a few years, everybody will be using llvm... 23:10:57 -!- Amyn [~abennama@m328eth.crans.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:13:29 pjb: I recently researched a stock (NXPI) for a buddy. I got the impression that NXPI was def. targetting LLVM (and associated offspring). 23:14:49 malbertife [~marcoalbe@bl14-199-235.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:15:55 -!- tsuru [~charlie@50.9.237.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:16:25 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:16:50 IOW considering the that much NXPI product winds up in Android iOS enabled devices it prob. isn't too unreasonable to assume that some code-monkeys at Googgle/Apple are tasked with making sure the NXPI stuff integrates tightly with LLVM 23:18:35 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has left #lisp 23:19:21 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:19:50 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:01 mon_key: LLVM is internally used in Android 3.0 and up 23:20:32 and I recall few apps that use it (bundled - it's not available directly for linking) 23:21:01 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-144-49.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:21:40 superflit [~superflit@71-208-217-71.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:44 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl15-224-249.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:21:47 Apple is actually using LLVM as main compiler with Xcode 4, iirc 23:22:14 well, llvm-gcc, but clang is used in many places and will probably be default soon 23:25:49 -!- faust45 [~Adium@128-212-93-178.pool.ukrtel.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:34:24 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 23:36:41 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:36:55 -!- turnipseed [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:38:34 kruft [~user@c-98-214-105-38.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:38:43 cheezus [~Adium@70.50.58.10] has joined #lisp 23:40:53 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:40:58 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-223-23.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:41:51 p_l: I'd always kinda (naively) assumed that the semiconductor stuff was an afterthought. I was suprised to learn that both Apple/Google have a going interest in working closely with semiconductor manufacturers on stuff well outside the bread-and butter (mostly intel) derived stuff that GCC like(sd) to target. After reasearching NXPI i kinda _got_ why people are clamoring that LLVM is a death knell for GCC. It's not (only) that GG/Apple 23:41:51 don't want their IP encumbered by copy-left, they have a huge vested interest in ensuring that the _metal_ they are writing their code to will become the new backbone of personal computing. 23:42:41 wildnux [~wildnux@68-191-210-216.dhcp.dntn.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 23:44:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 23:44:18 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:45:08 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-223-23.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:46:51 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 23:50:01 mon_key: I believe it's less about copy-left, more about LLVM being easier to be used for custom compilers 23:52:36 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:08 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 23:53:08 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:53:58 Maybe, can GCC do "Native Client"? I would imagine that integrating Native Client -> Dart is a foregone conclusion for the Google folks ;) 23:54:09 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 23:54:09 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:55:09 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 23:55:09 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:55:37 triliyn [~desmond@76-206-56-151.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:56:08 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 23:56:08 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:56:16 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:56:29 mon_key: Native Client is actually Qemu on non-x86 platforms, iirc 23:56:41 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.13.214] has joined #lisp 23:57:08 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 23:57:08 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:08 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 23:58:08 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:58:27 on x86, it's a segmentation trick 23:58:34 huh :) 23:58:39 (or seccomp under linux) 23:59:08 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 23:59:08 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:59:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds]