00:02:48 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:03:37 Dodek: don't forget to bind *read-base* around eval (not exactly a security hole, but some funny things are possible otherwise) 00:04:30 hmm 00:05:02 or maybe not (if pjb's reader uses its own *read-base*) 00:05:22 akovalenko: i think it will break only consecutive eval calls 00:05:31 so i'm all for it, actually 00:05:36 let users have fun :P 00:06:35 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:06:50 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 00:10:08 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:11:48 Dodek: (setf *package* (first (package-use-list *package*))) => even more fun 00:12:36 Cam [~Cam@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 00:14:24 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:14:35 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:15:12 akovalenko: wow, this is nice catch 00:15:33 akovalenko: but ultimately i cannot exploit it 00:16:13 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:16:52 Dodek: (let ((*package (car (package-use-list *package*)))) (read-from-string "DELETE-FILE")) 00:16:58 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:17:52 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:18:07 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 00:18:08 -!- upgrayedd [u2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svdbtxozktovunsg] has left #lisp 00:18:18 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-192-184.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 00:22:50 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:26:35 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:28:56 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 00:31:09 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:34:48 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.12.8.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:38:38 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:47:36 Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:57 How come #\' returns ', but #\\ returns \\? How do I get just one \? 00:48:07 nanoc [~conanhome@186.13.252.40] has joined #lisp 00:48:27 Oladon: because it has to escape it in order for it to be read 00:48:28 -!- Cam [~Cam@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: bbl :\] 00:48:43 I'm trying to escape single quotes in mysql input 00:48:46 if you do (print #\\) you'll see 00:49:15 p_l: still \\ 00:50:33 Oladon: #\\ is a syntax for character object. (princ #\\) and you'll see for real :) 00:51:00 Ah, interesting. princ is print character? 00:51:13 no, it's just princ 00:51:16 it princs stuff 00:51:22 :P 00:51:26 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.196] has joined #lisp 00:51:26 :D 00:52:13 Oladon: somehow, "C" stands for "aesthetically" :) it's probably all rooted it Lisps existing before I was born 00:52:22 Hehe 00:53:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:53:59 hmm 00:56:01 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 00:56:28 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 00:57:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:58:10 -!- rainyrhy|afk is now known as rainyrhy 00:58:59 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:59:12 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 00:59:36 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@adsl-99-156-26-174.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:42 So I've got (substitute (format nil "~A~A" (princ #\\) (princ #\')) "'" "I'll") 00:59:58 but instead of replacing the ', it's printing out the \' and then the original string 01:00:00 What'm I doing wrong? 01:00:31 Oladon: almost everything 01:01:03 hehe 01:01:04 Oladon: substitute won't replace strings with strings, (it's item-to-item) 01:01:05 as usual ;) 01:01:09 ah 01:01:18 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:02:19 hmm 01:02:45 Oladon: is it CLSQL? Did you try clsql:sql-escape-quotes ? 01:03:01 percolate [~icthiele@host-72-174-33-16.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:02 o.O I searched for "sanitize" :( 01:03:06 and escape 01:03:09 but apparently I missed it. 01:03:10 doh. 01:03:25 Oladon: sorry, clsql-sys:sql-escape-quotes 01:03:52 Hmm 01:03:53 Oladon: they probably build some nice abstraction around it, then you're not supposed to use it directly 01:03:56 -!- percolate [~icthiele@host-72-174-33-16.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:04:18 Only problem is it's Oracle-style, and my db is MySQL 01:04:36 icthiele [~icthiele@host-72-174-33-16.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:36 -!- icthiele is now known as perkol 01:04:48 fluffycms [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:08 Oladon: have you tried? It's ANSI-style IIRC, and I'd be surprised if MYSQL is evil enough not to grok it... 01:05:25 Oladon: maybe there is some option you can set.. 01:05:43 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-18-2.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:05:53 -!- perkol [~icthiele@host-72-174-33-16.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:06:06 MySQL uses \ as its escape character... I read about it :( 01:06:19 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:06:57 It put it in, but with '' 01:09:28 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:09:38 icthi [~icthiele@host-72-174-33-16.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:43 npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has joined #lisp 01:11:17 hmm 01:11:46 Ok, got it to insert correctly :) 01:11:52 Oladon: clsql-sys::substitute-string-for-char is an internal thing you can use or copy-paste 01:12:02 Thanks akovalenko, clsql-sys:sql-escape-quotes did the trick 01:12:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:12:18 I was just using it in the wrong place ;) 01:12:30 Oladon: ah, you were surrounding your string with 's, probably 01:12:47 or not.. 01:12:58 anyway, congrats :) 01:13:03 Thanks :) 01:13:12 I have really enjoyed this project 01:13:36 gonna have to find more places to use Lisp in the future :) 01:14:41 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:14:58 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:15:02 -!- icthi [~icthiele@host-72-174-33-16.msl-mt.client.bresnan.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:16:50 -!- bgs101 is now known as bgs100 01:17:04 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 01:18:02 I think next I'll add Eliza handling for when the bot can't process anything specific from the IM. 01:18:06 *Oladon* snickers 01:18:53 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 01:18:56 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-18-2.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:25 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.176.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:24:33 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:25:43 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:26:13 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@78.143.205.208] has quit 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[~max@p5790FC1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:53 Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:46 Oladon: what was wrong with: w(lambda (s) (with-output-to-string (out) (loop for ch across s do (when (char= #\' ch) (princ "\\" out)) (princ ch out)))) ? 03:10:12 pjb: I had exceeded my lambda quota and emacs wouldn't let me type any more 03:10:25 Oladon: you can give it a name. 03:10:36 pjb: uhh... I had also exceeded my defun quota 03:10:57 You can also copy-and-paste the body. 03:11:27 The one thing you cannot do is mess with substitute and princ that cannot do what you want. 03:11:31 Well, actually I'm an eagle and I have to type with my talons, and umm... darn, I'm running out of excuses. 03:11:32 ppcre:get-one-more-problem 03:11:41 :) 03:14:29 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.23.250] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 03:16:23 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 03:16:33 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-120-38.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:17:47 -!- mogs [~mogs@119.64.49.14] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:20:54 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-109-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 03:22:13 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:01 -!- rainyrhy is now known as rainyrhy|afk 03:37:20 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 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Operation timed out] 04:11:28 doesthiswork [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:59 so I'm making tree with some information associated with each node. so I make a 'node class 04:14:20 because I would like the root to be accessible even though I'm only passing a branch, each node has a slot that contains it's parent 04:16:22 it is awkward to have to set that slot after the object is created so I would like to give each node a parameter telling it who it's parent is. 04:16:41 *akovalenko* is reminded of http://smuglispweeny.blogspot.com/2009/06/i-feel-naggum-rip-coming-on-quads.html 04:17:25 the children are created by an :initform 04:17:37 how do I tell them who their parent is? 04:17:40 :initarg :parent ? 04:18:13 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 04:19:13 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:01 I don't know a way of referring to the parent while it is being created 04:20:06 mogs [~mogs@119.64.49.14] has joined #lisp 04:20:18 doesthiswork: INITIALIZE-INSTANCE (:after method) may be a better place for creating children -- parent object is easily available at this time 04:21:34 thank you 04:38:21 lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 04:39:27 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #lisp 04:39:40 -!- eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:42:39 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:42 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:47:00 superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 04:50:48 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:51:55 -!- zipace [~hi@unaffiliated/zipace] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:56:29 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #lisp 04:58:06 -!- Vivitron 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[Changing host] 08:33:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:33:55 I keep getting recursive attempt lock errors in my SLIME session, when the server has been working hard in other threads, which error recurse to death trying to print the error message, afaict 08:34:26 I've been testing & verifying my code for days; are there any known bugs in slime/swank itself that could point to this? 08:35:01 note the repl is just sitting there; I'm not issuing commands to it that are crashing, but it's always reported through slime 08:35:18 the server itself just starts a swank server; it's not launched through slime 08:36:10 <|3b|> if you are using sbcl, i think the recursive lock check had some false positives for a bit, might try newer sbcl 08:36:32 hmm, ok. Our sbcl is a few versions old, might want to see abotu deploying an update then 08:37:15 1.0.46 here 08:39:13 <|3b|> hmm, problem i'm thinking of was only from 1.0.49 to .50 i think 08:39:42 <|3b|> and i guess it was deadlock, not recursive lock 08:40:37 hmm 08:40:58 the fact that it always crashes through swank, and there are no crashes when there's no slime connection does point to something there 08:41:10 if it were a general sbcl problem, you'd think it'd manifest in a random thread 08:45:13 does swank hook in to capture & report errors from arbitrary threads? I didn't think it did, but not sure 08:45:17 grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has joined #lisp 08:45:42 <|3b|> yeah, it should pop up a debugger from any thread 08:46:36 ok, that's good to know 08:55:19 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:03:57 -!- rainyrhy|afk is now known as rainyrhy 09:04:54 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:04:58 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:09 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:11:00 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:16:09 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 09:16:31 -!- levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:01 -!- H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 09:18:04 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:18:18 hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has joined #lisp 09:20:55 -!- claudxiao [~claud@61.180.255.130] has left #lisp 09:22:55 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:24:39 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:25:04 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:37 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:34:07 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 09:37:36 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.178.146] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:38:52 -!- rainyrhy is now known as rainyrhy|afk 09:41:19 akovalen` [~user@95.73.218.71] has joined #lisp 09:43:01 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.109.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:45:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:51:43 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.203.8] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:53:34 nanoc [~conanhome@186.12.181.197] has joined #lisp 09:58:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:58:43 peterhil` [~peterhil@ZKMCDVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 09:59:49 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-184-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:01:13 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl20-201-190.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 10:07:26 jacks- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:07:28 hello. is it possible to make repl properly format and indent all the lists? for example '(if foo bar baz) should be printed as (if\n\tfoo\n\tbar\n\tbaz) 10:08:54 Try: (setf *print-pretty* t *print-right-margin* 10) 10:09:47 jacks-: which lisp do you use? 10:10:21 that doesn't really help pjb. I wanted to indent lisp code I got from macroexpand-1, so I could inspect it more easily. Xach sbcl and emacs 10:10:34 slime 10:11:01 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.212.122] has joined #lisp 10:12:49 H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has joined #lisp 10:13:33 jacks-: you can reduce *print-right-margin*. 10:13:58 jacks-: your example prints as expected for me. do you have a real example that doesn't? 10:14:31 moment 10:15:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125173 10:15:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:56 -!- jacks- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 10:16:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:08 jacks-- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 10:16:25 I guess it kind of works, but it looks odd with more complex code 10:16:42 for example '(defun hello () (print "hello") (print ", world") 10:16:59 not how most people would format that code 10:17:39 That said, I think that to pretty print code, you need to write specific code, formatting each operator idiosyncratically. 10:18:01 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:18:48 jacks--: you can change a lot of formatting by controlling the pretty printer. 10:20:41 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:27:18 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:28:08 -!- rainyrhy|afk is now known as rainyrhy 10:31:39 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 10:36:27 -!- rainyrhy [~rainyrhy@bb119-74-189-92.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: twitter @rainyrhy] 10:41:04 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:41:10 kenjin2202 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #lisp 10:43:54 How can I get the path to a lisp file? I'd like to load other files (with a relative path) from it. 10:45:01 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:46:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:46:26 macrobat: if you call (load "foo.lisp"), during the loading of foo.lisp the variable *load-truename* is bound to the full path to the file. 10:46:40 macrobat: it's much more common to load related source files by defining a system for them, though. 10:46:53 and it's pretty easy to define and load a system. 10:47:01 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 10:47:38 ok, ty. defsystem? 10:48:17 yes. i wrote a bit about how i do it at http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html and http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html 10:50:02 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:50:29 thanks 10:58:25 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:03 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-11-33.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:10:10 hello guys! 11:10:51 have any of you used antik? i fi d that its very slow with comparison to my simple inner product, for example 11:11:49 -!- quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:12:47 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-228.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:13:03 ideally, i dont want to write my own inner product, vector-scalar product, vector subtraction routines 11:13:29 so i thought id use a package, is there something faster? or can i make antik run faster? 11:13:59 id like to invert a matrix too 11:16:58 Guthur [~user@212.183.140.60] has joined #lisp 11:20:53 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:21:00 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 11:21:26 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:22:06 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-109.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:24:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:34 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.212.74] has joined #lisp 11:27:58 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:31:49 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 11:32:10 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:35:51 mcstar: what implementation? lisps vary a lot in speed 11:36:05 sbcl 11:36:11 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-184-111.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:37:03 under SBCL should be possible to optimize to about 70-80% of equivalent C++ code, if you use native data types and do (speed 3) (safety 0) for inner loops 11:37:11 Yuuhi [benni@p54839C47.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:37:21 ill be back in couple of minutes, pls continue 11:37:39 mcstar: i suggest making a small example and make a paste, SBCL ppl usually take it seriously about numeric performance 11:39:09 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:42:05 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 11:42:40 here 11:43:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:43:00 maxm-: im saying that my hand-coded routines are optimized, and are really fast 11:43:22 Ivoz [cb811aca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.129.26.202] has joined #lisp 11:43:36 but id like to use a library/package, and antik offered easy vector creation, with a reader macro, and some vector operations 11:43:41 ah 11:43:51 and i found it to be very slow 11:44:02 compare 370sec vs. 1.9 sec 11:44:08 doh 11:44:50 ive read the manual, but it didnt accur to me that theres something trivial i need to do in order to gain speed 11:45:01 thats why i asked if somebody has experience with antik 11:45:17 but id take any suggestions as to what linalg library to use 11:45:44 I remember using cl-mathstat, and it was reasonably ok, but it had its own companion container library (cl-containers) with interface that was a bit weird 11:46:03 but I only used some basics such as linear regression i think 11:46:39 i have this computational geometry problem, i tried to do it in python, with numpy, but it was incredibly slow 11:46:53 hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has joined #lisp 11:47:06 compare 30 minutes to idk, couple of seconds 11:47:20 basically i did it in cl, but its not pretty 11:47:53 obviously i dont want to use C, i dont want to lose the dynamic environment 11:47:55 write macros/helper functions until its pretty, CL makes it easy to hide the ugliness 11:48:07 elurin [~user@85.99.35.200] has joined #lisp 11:48:19 H4ns_ [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has joined #lisp 11:48:32 maxm-: id probably do that, but for the moment this seems to be a one-time project 11:49:30 -!- H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:49 (progn #.(loop for form in lisp-forms collect form)) <- how to turn this into valid lisp? I am getting this (progn ((form1) (form2) ..)) 11:50:40 `(progn ,@(loop for form in lisp-forms collect form)) 11:51:00 nice 11:51:02 err does . do it at read time? 11:51:13 yes I was going to ask if your example did the same 11:51:17 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:51:45 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:51:59 yeah not the same, your example produces a list 11:53:07 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:53:12 jacks--: I think #.`(progn ,@(whatever returning a list)) 11:53:13 will do it 11:53:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:54:38 -!- Ivoz [cb811aca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.203.129.26.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:02 won't that just return a list, instead of the code that's executed? 11:55:34 no it works fine 11:55:35 mcstar: I looked at antic, it looks like its using generic functions for the basic math ops, ie abs/plus/minus etc, which is while admirable is no speed demo 11:55:40 thanks, I have to process that 11:56:12 can I think of #. as an inline macro? whatever it returns is passed to the compiler 11:56:54 yes, its executed when the stuff is being parsed.. 11:57:17 -!- Beetny` [~Beetny@ppp118-208-18-2.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:47 can I somehow expand it to see what compiler sees? like with macroexpand 11:58:14 try (with-input-from-string (s "#.(progn (print 'hey) 42)") (read s)) 11:58:50 the "print hey" will be executed as (read) function parses the string... officially its called a "reader macro", and you can install your own 11:59:06 that do fancy things, such as $[whatever syntax you want here] 11:59:17 that just prints HEY and returns 42 11:59:41 yes interesting 11:59:44 jacks--: in slime go to 1st parentesis of a form, and do C-c C-m 11:59:46 jacks--: what are you really trying to do? 11:59:57 and it will show macroexpanded macro.. Ie try it on (cond) 12:00:07 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.140.60] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:00:35 Xach: neat slides 12:00:52 maxm-: well, with generic operations, my inner product suffers a 10x slowdown, but the antik routine is still 36x slower than this 12:01:35 mcstar: well without profiling no way to say where is the slowdown, I learned not to spend too much time on fixing other ppl stuff, shoot an email to antik guys and let them figure it out 12:02:00 i searched their manual for "performance" and had not found anything relevant, so 12:02:02 i did profile it, the time was spent among many many functions, all below 5% 12:02:08 or 5-8% 12:02:44 thats why i have no clue as to what to do with it, theres not one place when antik is using its time 12:02:48 mcstar: IMHO just roll your own, if and release if if you want.. Try cl-mathstat as i remember it was somewhat clearly written 12:03:20 H4ns generate some code inline, so that I get nicer messages in case unit test fails. (the actual function call instead of a variable) 12:03:37 maxm-: ok,thx, but its likely it wont see the outside of my computer, cause these functions will be very limited 12:03:40 mcstar: the problem library writers face, is they have to make decision, either be flexible, or force everyone to use double-float 12:03:47 hard to support both.. 12:03:56 i guess its hard to them in a general way, and still being fast 12:04:05 to do them* 12:04:37 a good math library would do the generic functions route like antik, but would also use macros to allow generating type specific code, kind of simularly to cffi.. Ie make all the generic etc framework do its magic at compile time 12:05:26 can macros be specialized by argument types? 12:05:54 well macros could parse the code they are passed, and parse (the 'type) and (declaim) declarations 12:06:01 iterate does it 12:06:17 also there is (constantp) which helps with constant folding 12:06:34 but that implies, the user have to manually declare types 12:06:50 i guess that cant be circumvented 12:07:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:07:14 and remember that macros are just normal lisp code.. So a macro can call (generate-type-specific-code ....whatever-params...) and you can have generic functions specializing on params 12:07:17 jacks--: simple macros can do that, but you've already discovered that you're getting the parsed code after the reader has processed it, right? 12:07:53 H4ns yes I got it 12:08:01 maxm-: ok, thx, i dont want to go into this, cause id be talking bs my knowledge gets hazy there 12:08:16 jacks--: there is no easy way to get at the unparsed text. 12:08:38 well in the end it has to come from the user.. If you want all-knowing compiler always able to prove whats going on, the way I understand ML / Huskell does that 12:08:45 -!- H4ns_ is now known as H4ns 12:09:18 H4ns ok, I have bigger problems now btw. how come this won't work? 12:09:44 (defparameter *str* "test") (apply 'length '(*str*)) 12:09:48 well, in the haskell type system you dont specify types, only what types are there, they are variables 12:10:06 when you DO specify them, than its run-time dispatch i think 12:10:13 jacks--: *str* is quoted in your argument list. 12:10:48 yes. shouldn't it still work? it's a symbol 12:11:28 jacks--: no, cl:length doesn't work on symbols. 12:12:02 how can I get the value of *str* 12:12:07 given '*str* 12:12:08 jacks--: when you write (length *str*) the arguments to the functions are EVALUATED before the function is called. Therefore what is passed to length is not *str*, but "test", the value of *str*. 12:12:39 To build the argument list, with the arguments evaluated, you may use list instead of quote: (apply 'length (list *str*)) 12:13:13 I have this though '((func1 arguments) (func2 arguments)) 12:13:26 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@adsl-99-156-26-174.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:13:29 give '*str*, you could use symbol-value to get the value, but this work only for special variables such as *str*: (apply 'length (list (symbol-value '*str*))) 12:13:31 (apply (car form) (cdr form)) 12:13:37 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@adsl-99-156-26-174.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:13:51 For lexical variables, you don't have a choice, you must use them lexically. 12:14:02 (let ((str "test")) (apply 'length (list str))) 12:14:41 (let ((str "test") (call '(length str))) (apply (first call) (list (ecase (second call) ((str) str))))) 12:15:05 i have a list of functions with their arguments, and I'm looping over them and calling each function. maybe I should do something like this? `((func1 ,*str*) .. ) 12:15:19 instead of '((func1 *str*) .. ) 12:15:42 If your list of calls is know at compilation time, you can just write (func1 *str*). There's no point in writing anything more complex. 12:16:25 I have to call 4 functions and do same things after the call each time. wanted to avoid code repetition 12:17:15 (f1 x) (do-the-same-thing) (f2 y) (do-the-same-thing) (f3 z) (do-the-same-thing) (f4 w) (do-the-same-thing). 12:17:39 pjb: [x] you figured out what he wants to avoid. 12:17:41 You can use flet or labels to define local functions factoring out the code. 12:18:04 yes I'd prefer if (do-the-same-thing) is inlined so that I get nicer errors if unit test fails 12:19:50 Then probably `((func1 ,*str*) .. ) is the best for you. 12:20:33 jacks--: so all these functions that you want to call accept the same arguments? 12:20:38 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 12:21:39 jacks--: note that (defparamter *str* "foo") (apply 'length (list *foo*)) "works", as does (funcall 'length *foo*) if that is what you want to do 12:22:53 I'll post some code. I'm not sure if this is the best way to do it. this is not a working code btw, have some other issues. but it should look something like this 12:23:47 give me a moment have to trim it down to something reasonable 12:25:08 kenr [~kenr@46.188.179.153] has joined #lisp 12:25:19 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:29:04 hello. any know why clisp 2.49 isn't finding my asdf systems, while 2.47 does, using the same .clisprc file? I see my directory in asdf:*central-registry* but it can't load systems from it 12:29:19 strange 12:29:42 System "xy" not found 12:29:57 that's what I'm getting 12:30:58 Check that your ~/.clisprc is read completely in both versions. (eg. add (print '(.clisprc done)) at the end). 12:31:26 it can load systems from quicklisp just fine btw 12:33:22 it prints .clisprc done when starting both versions of clisp 12:33:38 strange 12:34:34 should probably mention I'm doing this on windows 12:34:51 here is my .clisprc 12:36:16 scambag windows, first backslashes as separators, now this 12:36:17 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:36:44 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125175 12:36:57 slashes still work as separators on windows btw 12:37:06 (everywhere) 12:37:14 jacks--: not everywhere :) 12:37:24 well almost everywhere :) 12:37:56 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 12:38:01 kenr: perhaps 2.49 has asdf embedded. Then your push on *central-registry* won't be done. Put it on the toplevel. 12:38:44 I probably formatted that code badly, #-asdf applies only to (load #P"d:/home/kenr/asdf/asdf.lisp"), push is done regardless 12:38:48 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:39:09 oops, right, I didn't read it well. 12:39:31 so, strange. 12:40:07 Perhaps it's ql who does something different on the different versions. Try to push your directory at the end of .clisprc so it's prioritary. 12:40:45 deep thought #7: every programmer "eureka! I'll use filesystem as my database" is shortly followed by "delicious coffee/chocolate cake.txt" moment 12:43:23 I have temporarily removed all quicklisp forms, can still load my systems in 2.47 but not in 2.49 12:43:51 Well, perhaps you should ask on the clisp mail-list. 12:44:22 -!- kenr [~kenr@46.188.179.153] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 12:44:29 maybe .fas file format changed? delete *.fas files 12:46:17 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-109-254.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:48:10 -!- H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:48:47 -!- jacks-- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (Ping timeout)] 12:48:52 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:53:22 -!- lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:53:38 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:53:38 -!- kenjin2202 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:56:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.196] has quit [Quit: Offline] 12:56:32 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 12:58:53 superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 12:59:30 manuel__ [~manuel_@p57920562.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:00 cfa: slides? 13:06:27 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:10:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:11:11 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@109.225.20.80] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:12:12 Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.167.147] has joined #lisp 13:12:44 Xach: i was trying to implement add-terms in CL. look for definition of add-terms in http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-18.html#%_sec_2.5.3 13:13:15 Xach: stassats gave an elegant solution by moving the inner let to the top-most level 13:13:47 Xach: as (car nil) is allowed in CL. but i'm interested in your opinion on that code. to mee it looks like too deeply nested for being good style 13:15:14 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:16:05 -!- Whitesquall [~notwhites@94.242.167.147] has left #lisp 13:21:02 Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:23:53 The scheme code? 13:24:22 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:26:45 urandom__ [~user@p548A57B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:15 Xach: yes 13:27:32 Xach: rather, what would be the idiomatic way to write it in CL? 13:27:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:27:47 Xach: some form of iteration, use (return-from) instead of cond at the start... 13:28:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:28:43 I don't think so. 13:30:26 do recursive things recursively and plain things plainly.. Ie if you processing a list with fractal structure, such as processing sexp's the recursion is the nativest approach, you can't really make it any clearer 13:30:56 doug11 [~doug@host213-123-12-26.range213-123.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 13:31:53 recursion in place of iteration is bad... Ie writing recursive function to do the work of (loop repeat 5 collect nil) is stupid, but so is doing iterative function to process a tree 13:32:00 Xach: http://lisptips.com/post/11176448674/stylish-common-lisp 13:32:11 Iteration is recursive. 13:32:29 But some operators are more suited to some forms of recursion than others. 13:32:40 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:22 maxm-: but that code essentially merges two lists, which is iterative. 13:33:51 cfa: ah, thanks! 13:33:55 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.155] has joined #lisp 13:34:04 cfa: i've seen it once before, but useful to return back to it. 13:34:19 kpreid [~kpreid@OITADMI-93APQSM.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 13:35:50 heh, thank Xach 13:36:54 well I don't know, if you somehow find a better recursive representation for that code, post it, it will be interesting to see 13:38:08 maxm-: i'm tempted to do it iteratively. an excuse for learning iterate-macros. 13:38:34 i mean, how DO you merge two lists in CL, which doesn't guarantee TCO? 13:38:54 personally when its possible to write stuff iteratively, it would pop into your head after a few minutes of pondering, but so far anything I'm trying to build iteratively in my head quickly becomes more complicated then recursive version... You have to keep current result, then add to it, advancing along both lists.. 13:38:57 (i'm not interested in the merge builtin :)) 13:39:38 maxm-: it's really straightforward to do it iteratively in C. 13:41:08 ok, i'll do several versions and paste them all. 13:42:22 for the love of god don't do (do ...) one :-) 13:43:57 maxm-: hehehe :D what about tagbody+go? :P 13:45:44 anyway, out. bbl. 13:50:56 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:57 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:53:33 replore_ [~replore@125.2.132.73] has joined #lisp 13:59:18 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:01:21 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:01:39 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 14:02:15 ok here it is http://paste.lisp.org/display/125177 14:02:27 but imho recursive one was easier to writer 14:04:49 also it modifies its argument, probably should do term = (copy-list (pop list)) 14:06:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:06:34 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:07:26 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:13:46 -!- anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 14:14:12 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:17:07 anybody has any idea what /usr/local/bin/notangle is? 14:17:33 im trying to use OdonataResearchLLC's linear algebra package 14:18:47 mcstar: http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man1/notangle.1.html 14:19:11 akovalenko: thx 14:25:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 14:26:21 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:31:36 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 14:38:10 maxm-: hm, recursive seems easier to understand 14:40:15 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:40:20 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 14:42:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:42:33 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-40.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:42:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:45:15 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:46:57 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:49:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@170.122.250.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:50:53 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-52-242.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:51:22 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.155] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 14:55:00 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.155] has joined #lisp 15:00:26 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:06:16 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:06:39 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:08:20 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:13:29 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@ZKMCDVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Excess Flood] 15:14:14 peterhil` [~peterhil@ZKMCDVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 15:14:23 -!- zakwilson [~quassel@chat.qniformchat.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:14:34 zakwilson [~quassel@chat.qniformchat.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:22 maxm-: if youre interested, this is the end result http://imgur.com/vkAfr (made with common lisp TM) 15:20:30 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.180.200] has joined #lisp 15:21:14 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 15:21:58 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:22:40 X-Scale [email@193-126-158-30.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 15:22:58 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest67061 15:23:59 hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has joined #lisp 15:24:19 stever2 [~steve@cpe-75-84-223-152.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:09 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-021-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 15:25:34 I put a "(break)" command in my code to load up the debugger. How do I find the state of a variable? I type e and then "car (lst)" but it says "lst is unbound" or something like that. I am using clisp on slime. 15:26:08 itym (car lst) 15:28:41 -!- elliott|nuckOff is now known as elliottcable 15:29:16 itym is the command? Doesn't "i" mean to inspect the frame? 15:29:17 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:12 itym == "I think you mean" 15:30:50 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:35:15 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:35:46 still stays "lst is unbound". I am in the slime debugger. "e" evaluates a command. it works with (+ 1 3) for instance but not with (car lst) 15:35:55 Kron [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 15:36:55 stever2: "e" is "evaluate in call frame", if I remember correctly. You can browse call frames with SLDB, click on them and see all locals that are available. 15:37:06 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 15:37:19 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:37:23 stever2: and when you use "e", it's important to know _which_ call frame will be used 15:37:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:38:14 How do you specify the call frame to use? 15:40:30 stever2: by moving the cursor to some item of SLDB backtrace. But see above: you can just _click_ on a backtrace item and see & inspect all locals. 15:40:41 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:32 -!- Guest67061 [email@193-126-158-30.net.novis.pt] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 14wks 4days 23hrs 32mins 11secs] 15:44:11 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:44:40 Guest67061 [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:50 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@c-71-233-118-38.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:45:06 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:46:00 -!- Guest67061 is now known as X-Scale 15:46:45 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 15:47:16 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:47:39 krzysz00 [~user@pool-71-170-109-124.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:04 RomyEatsDrupal_ [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:45 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:53 Hello all. 15:49:02 Hello nyef. 15:49:20 helloo 15:50:00 Anything going on? 15:50:11 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:51:05 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:51:11 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@c-71-233-118-38.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:51:12 -!- RomyEatsDrupal_ is now known as RomyEatsDrupal 15:51:30 lol I forgot that by default Qt pens are using scaled widths and not pixels, so drawing a 3 pixel line unintentionally created an effect http://i.imgur.com/eNIoN.png 15:52:52 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@OITADMI-93APQSM.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 15:53:19 maxm-: are there qt bindings for cl? 15:53:47 commonqt ? 15:53:51 yea 15:54:01 -!- setmeaway2 [jnoos43@119.201.52.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:55:06 setmeaway [setmeaway@119.201.52.182] has joined #lisp 15:57:01 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:58:57 mcstar: nice render altho don't know what it is.. 16:00:17 its a wulff construction, if you know the surface free energy anisotropy of a material, you can construct the equilibrium crystal shape, which is this for a particular setting 16:03:44 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 16:04:37 you just doing it for fun or writing a simulator or such? 16:04:59 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 16:05:34 its for my physics thesis 16:05:39 seems to be something one would use for protein folding type stuff? (/me is armchair wikipedia type scientist) 16:05:46 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@adsl-99-156-26-174.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:46 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:06:20 my protein folding project went into smoke, when i couldnt run fold.it 16:06:22 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 16:06:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:07:13 Davidbrcz [~david@193.54.120.175] has joined #lisp 16:10:41 Efazati [~efazati@178.131.85.187] has joined #lisp 16:10:50 -!- Efazati [~efazati@178.131.85.187] has left #lisp 16:13:59 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.155] has left #lisp 16:14:52 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@adsl-99-156-26-174.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:15:09 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:17:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@193.54.120.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:18:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@adsl-99-156-26-174.dsl.klmzmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:40 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 16:21:55 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:22:26 dlowe [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:09 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:26:30 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.89] has joined #lisp 16:26:39 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.89] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:01 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.176] has joined #lisp 16:31:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:33:09 Anyone installed matlisp lately? I'm having troubles with asdf not finding different source files: lib-src/macros.l src/f77-mangling.lisp lib/lazy-loader.lisp (It tries to look at the in the source directory trees root, so it looks like translate-logical-pathname is failing) 16:33:48 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:36:39 are there any good static analysis tools for lisp debugging? 16:36:55 -!- stever2 [~steve@cpe-75-84-223-152.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:37:27 Phoodus: The best one is between your ears. 16:38:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:38:39 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:39:10 Static analysis in CL is largely limited to functions. 16:39:23 nyef: hmm, there is a lot of sbcl code between my ears, but it's not that part which does static analysis :) 16:39:32 Maybe lisp-critic? 16:39:37 nyef: between the ears only goes to a certain level of complexity. automated tools dont' have that limitation 16:41:28 Phoodus: Consider the former to be a good reason to reduce complexity where possible, and the latter to be simply false as the tool will eventually choke in one way or another if you try to feed it something too complex. 16:42:14 complexity is pretty good, the system is large 16:42:28 and it's hitting async errors 16:44:26 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:45:09 Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has joined #lisp 16:45:42 man asdf needs 2 dependency types imho 16:45:55 :depends, and :compile-before 16:46:23 Hey, I am learning lisp from htdp, however I have trouble understanding one part, This function (define (move-circle delta a-circle) 16:46:23 (cond 16:46:24 [(draw-and-clear-circle a-circle) (translate-circle a-circle delta)] 16:46:24 [else a-circle])) 16:46:28 ie macros.lisp containing stuff rest of your system uses. This is real :depends 16:46:47 Hilbert_: This channel is for Common Lisp generally. You can get better help at #scheme. 16:47:04 but "class.lisp" and "class-methods.lisp", you can not really say that class-methods.lisp needs to be recompiled every time class.lisp changes. In fact in most cases it does not 16:47:55 but it class.lisp has to be compiled at before class-methods.lisp.... Currently there is no way to achive that, I have to use :depends-on, and have 10 files being recompiled when I change :initform 16:50:07 another example would be package.lisp.. Other files that do (in-package) can't be compiled unless package.lisp is compiled first (and actually creates the package). But its silly to have your entire system to depend-on package.lisp, which makes everything recompile when you add export or such 17:01:39 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:31 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 17:03:54 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:12 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:05:53 How can I "capture" the value of a variable when it is something other than nil, ike *load-truename* during load 17:05:54 ? 17:08:32 macrobat: What are you really trying to do? 17:09:37 (when *foo* ... use *foo*...) ? 17:09:52 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-021-150.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:10:15 (defparameter *where-am-i* #.(or *compile-file-truename* *load-truename*)) ;; that's what people normally want when they ask questions like that 17:10:15 (Your answer, btw, depends on the variable, and for the specific example of *load-truename* you merely need to arrange to access its value from some form evaluated at load-time.) 17:11:03 Which, of course, breaks if you want to know where the fasl is rather than the source file. 17:11:40 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:12:17 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:12:31 I'd like to load other files from a file I load from the repl, so I want the path name 17:13:04 jaro3000 [~jaro@94-75-108-118.home.aster.pl] has joined #lisp 17:13:25 (load (merge-pathnames "other-file" *load-truename*)) ? 17:13:38 Martiini [~martin@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 17:13:43 Seems slightly odd to load without compiling, but not unheard-of. 17:14:11 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:16:42 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:19:35 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:19:40 alkoma [~alkoma@98.207.166.94] has joined #lisp 17:22:47 Guthur [~user@host86-148-186-28.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:22:52 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:27:12 Thank you, it works great. 17:29:14 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 17:29:43 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:30:46 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:32:13 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 17:33:00 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:33:29 macrobat: just learn to use asdf, otherwise you'll be reimplementing it, badly 17:33:51 unless you doing something very specific 17:36:19 the basics of ASDF is reasonably attainable, (ql:quickload 'quickproject) and then (quickproject:make-project ...) will get you going pretty quick 17:36:38 kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has joined #lisp 17:37:01 if you are not on linux the lack of symlinks can be troublesome 17:37:17 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 17:37:26 OSX might have something though, never use it 17:37:44 I'm trying to write a simple script. Is it possible to use functions from other packages like cl-ppcre? 17:37:46 ok, I will go for asdf later. This time I just wanted something to let me type less in the top loop. 17:37:52 *nyef* thought OSX had symlinks. 17:38:18 nyef: probably does, I just had to add that disclaimer because I don't know 17:38:23 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:38:39 Mmm. And, JFTR, OSX does appear to have symlinks. 17:40:23 the filesystem layer is all BSD 17:45:30 sycamorex [~sycamorex@93-96-235-146.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:51:25 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.12.181.197] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:53:41 sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-hovkfeqbuttergwa] has joined #lisp 17:53:49 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:01:06 -!- sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-hovkfeqbuttergwa] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:01:14 sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-gmzvrulvsibocahk] has joined #lisp 18:01:29 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:03 -!- sycamorex [~sycamorex@93-96-235-146.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:02:54 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:03:22 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 18:04:47 nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.181.60] has joined #lisp 18:04:57 I'm currently using sbcl and slime. Is there a way to redirect warnings, style warnings (and notes) to *slime-compilation* for example? The repl gets spammy. 18:05:00 4.1.1 Controlling Verbosity 18:05:44 nyef Guthur: OS X has symlinks, but also aliases... That's kind of stupid as they look alike in Finder... 18:05:59 oktapodi [~oktapodi@117.193.14.146] has joined #lisp 18:06:02 But Unix software usually does not understand aliases 18:06:03 that was from the sbcl info page. I don't understand how to use the ;;;Muffle compiler-notes globally 18:08:37 drewc` [~user@74.210.90.27] has joined #lisp 18:10:00 -!- drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:11:44 ehu [~ehuels@87.212.64.118] has joined #lisp 18:11:49 Hilbert__ [~Hilbert@86-45-172-79-dynamic.b-ras2.chf.cork.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:53 isn't there any shorter way to get today's "%Y-%m-%d" than (format nil "~{~2,'0D~^-~}" (reverse (subseq (multiple-value-list (get-decoded-time)) 3 6))) ? 18:12:28 ... Maybe by using RUN-PROGRAM ? 18:12:37 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:12:43 *akovalenko* would skip some args with ~* instead of using subseq.. 18:12:48 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:34 -!- Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:13:34 nyef: calling external programs to get current date? seems even worse 18:13:39 At that point, you may as well just (m-v-c #'format nil "whatever" (get-decoded-time)), surely? 18:14:05 that looks better, thank you :) 18:14:28 And use ~* to jump around in the values as needed. 18:14:36 heh, (m-v-c (l-t-v (formatter ...))) ;; so one could have learn something more when reading 18:15:03 Completely unreadable, of course. 18:15:18 akovalenko: (m-v-c #'format ...) is easier to optimise for python (: 18:15:37 bege [~bege@S0106001d7e5132b0.ed.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:55 what does l-t-v stand for? i assume m-v-c is multiple-value-call 18:16:03 dRbiG: load-time-value 18:16:05 Mmm. And don't forget to tell l-t-v that it's a constant, otherwise you'll end up with a value-cell for it. 18:16:48 macrobat: you mean this? (declaim (sb-ext:muffle-conditions sb-ext:compiler-note)) 18:16:49 lanthan [~ze@84.183.221.123] has joined #lisp 18:16:51 *nyef* goes looking for food. 18:17:03 of course, compared to producing the result, that's all noise. 18:18:10 -!- lanthan [~ze@84.183.221.123] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:18:33 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:18:49 nyef: that's strange. As we can't *assign* to (l-t-v ...) anyway, I'd expect its "constantness" to mean "all the way down, like a literal" -- and I fail to see how a value cell is useful.. 18:19:13 akovalenko: it's enough to outsmart the compiler about literals. 18:19:29 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:20:15 lanthan [~ze@p54B7DD7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:20:16 benny` [~benny@i577A2363.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:20:27 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:21:25 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2151.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:22:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:25:37 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:26:56 lol @ format discussion.. Stop writing incomprehensible code ppl. The time you spent tinkering with that format is the time you'll never get back 18:26:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:27:45 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:28:23 marw [~marw@unaffiliated/marw] has joined #lisp 18:29:04 hello. in slime, how do i proceed to the next step when (step ...) is invoked? 18:29:45 it will have a restart called "next", M-x sldb-next should invoke it (I forgot if its bound to something or not) 18:30:32 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:43 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 18:32:59 mcstar: yes, it seems to have no effect on warnings. compiler-note means just the note severity level? 18:33:28 doesn't work. i have entered "(step (if (oddp 5) 'yes 'no))" and i don't know how to continue or break it :) 18:34:02 -!- sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-gmzvrulvsibocahk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:34:13 sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-hvbngskfkeszatod] has joined #lisp 18:34:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:35:42 another thing: Is there a way to have the allegro debugger pop up in its own buffer? 18:36:29 macrobat: it works for me 18:36:34 suppresses compiler notes 18:37:11 for example, when a declare a function optimized, and somwhow the conditions dont guarantee the faster code paths, sbcl makes a note, but with the muffle settings its gone 18:37:15 when i* 18:37:46 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: under the bit stream] 18:38:35 i just googled for "step in slime"... yay 18:38:39 you just use that in the repl? 18:38:40 -!- Martiini [~martin@88-196-141-145-dsl.rpl.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:38:52 are you using sbcl? 18:39:02 cause its sepcific, obviously 18:39:18 marw: honestly get your hopes down for the stepper, its kind of mostly useless 18:39:31 :D I'm using sbcl. clisp was less verbose 18:39:34 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:39:44 it somewhat works if you do declaim everything in CL package notinline, but that breaks some other stuff 18:39:52 macrobat: ok, i wasnt sure because of the allegro question 18:40:01 otherwise it just skips too much of builtins, including all arithmetic, array access etc 18:40:18 maxm-: i'm just learning, and there's an example in a book, involving "step" 18:40:22 i put it in a file, where my source is, but i guess you can execute it from the repl too, i dont think theres a difference 18:40:33 (Of course, the /reason/ it skips such things is that the compiler is compiling it down as tightly as possible.) 18:40:53 pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 18:41:41 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:41:41 neena [~neena@unaffiliated/neenaoffline] has joined #lisp 18:41:43 Somewhere or other I had a proof-of-concept for single-instruction stepping. 18:42:09 I'm not really friends with the allegro setup. There is a debugger in the same buffer as the repl and there is a *background-interaction* popup buffer that hides my source buffer. 18:42:33 idk, maybe that is an emacs question? 18:42:39 macrobat: me neither, it has an ugly gui, emacs beats it 18:42:45 also the whole "signal stepping through conditions" thing while it works, is ass-backward, and if you step through complicated code such as one using condition system extensively (ie restarts with your own formatter etc), you end up stepping the stepper eventually 18:42:46 -!- oktapodi [~oktapodi@117.193.14.146] has left #lisp 18:46:30 Yet more evidence that it might be better to have the debugger in a different process, or at least a different thread, than the debuggee? 18:49:22 -!- Hilbert__ [~Hilbert@86-45-172-79-dynamic.b-ras2.chf.cork.eircom.net] has quit [Quit: Hilbert__] 18:49:31 different process will be problematic, but something like in a different thread and using CPU step flag and some C support rather then condition system 18:49:31 -!- sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-hvbngskfkeszatod] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:49:58 Problematic, yes. Proof-of-concept available, also yes. 18:50:05 sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-fyymmtohatmbphnt] has joined #lisp 18:50:11 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:50:34 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:50:58 ie rather then instrumenting code with "here i am" info, have a symbol table mapping source forms to offsets in generated code, then "next" will be basically setting hardware bp on the next form address in the machine code.. 18:51:47 Oh. You didn't know? Guess how it used to work? 18:51:57 unfortunately its kind of a huge project.. I remember reading article from a commercial lisp guy (I think allegro) how it ended up really big deal to get debugging right in lisp 18:52:25 hmm, it used to work this way, and got changed to using condition system? 18:52:49 It used to work this way, and got broken and then disabled, and then reimplemented using the condition system. 18:53:22 Same missing information also reduces the utility of disassembly. 18:54:06 ah.. Well IMHO current way is pretty much useless. And its nothing against whoever implemented it, they did a good job with the approach taken, but in the end one has to judge by results, and if anyone tells me stepping in SBCL is usable, they'll be lying 18:54:07 AIUI, all of the bits are still there in CMUCL. 18:54:40 Heh. I wouldn't want to use breakpoints on non-x86oid, non-PPC SBCL. 18:55:20 (Actually, I wouldn't want to use non-x86oid, non-PPC SBCL. There's no thread support, and I know a little bit too much about how to break it.) 18:55:54 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:56:00 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@98.207.166.94] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:56:14 well if I ever gonna do commercial / production lisp app, I'll probably go with allegro/lispworks 18:56:18 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:56:57 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.29.100] has joined #lisp 18:57:03 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 18:57:07 thats a good thing about CL, I'm pretty sure it will porting will be trivial 18:57:18 I'd go with SBCL, more because it tends to work well for the sort of things I tend to do... and I am capable of sorting out most of the problems I'd run into. 18:57:20 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:57:47 maxm-: one of the bigger commercial users of CL uses SBCL 18:57:52 ...ITA 18:57:59 Guthur: on linux? 18:58:09 I would imagine so 18:58:28 no one in their right mind would run a production SBCL app on windows, imho 18:58:29 on linux i would probably go with SBCL, but on win32 its too scary 18:58:45 sorry I may have missed some context to this convo 18:58:58 Guthur: I meant on windows ,coz the app I envision would be using commonqt 18:59:08 I've been frobbing my emacs so not watching too attentively 18:59:11 Now, for a /distributable/ application, such as a win32 app, I might avoid using SBCL. 18:59:15 which is a shame, because developing with commonqt is a blast, better then C++ 18:59:27 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.146.124.136.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:59:36 -!- sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-fyymmtohatmbphnt] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:59:45 sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-acamvrtxkhazrnvi] has joined #lisp 18:59:46 paul0 [~paul0@177.16.110.25] has joined #lisp 18:59:53 If there's a server component, though? That runs SBCL, almost no question. 18:59:54 Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has joined #lisp 19:01:20 Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:01:50 nyef the lack of true windows love within the SBCL project is why I would say running it in a production setting would be unwise 19:02:18 Hey, at least it's /possible/. 19:02:39 true 19:03:00 we ran the same codebase aross ccl/win64 and sbcl/linux64 just fine for a long time 19:03:09 But, yeah, there aren't that many SBCL devs that use windows on anything approaching a regular basis. 19:03:11 If you were willing to pay you might encourage some love 19:03:25 with pretty much zero #+/#- (left that to the trivial-* libs) 19:03:42 its the corner cases that kill you.. Ie what if condition is thrown while you are in a lisp callback from C++ land etc 19:04:07 our mixed languages run in separate processes 19:04:20 maxm-: that's more likely to work on windows than anywhere else. 19:04:26 maxm-: Interestingly, SBCL does something approaching correct, there. 19:04:32 and thing about SBCL when its get hosed, if hosing is related to SBCL internal state in it its global vars getting somehow screwed up, its hard to figure out the reason 19:05:09 And that last goes back to the having-the-debugger-in-a-separate-process thing. 19:05:50 maxm-: tell me about it. We've been trying to find a memory corruption error for a long time 19:06:26 but wouldn't you think that true of any environment? 19:07:01 unix process is one of the greatest inventions... If you have an inter-process API with seamless retries after failure, stuff like "just malloc and never free", set max process size to 20 megs, and let nature take it course, becames valid programming techniques 19:07:18 (or use erlang ;) ) 19:07:29 -!- Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has quit [Quit: Hilbert_] 19:08:03 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:09:18 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:09:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:11:07 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:35 levi [~user@c-174-52-219-147.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:26 xan_ [~xan@132.207.222.129] has joined #lisp 19:15:17 kingless [~user@108.65.61.54] has joined #lisp 19:15:57 -!- benny` is now known as benny 19:18:33 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 19:21:09 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:21:18 francogrex [~user@109.130.137.79] has joined #lisp 19:21:19 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:10 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:22:33 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:24:03 this is why developing with common qt rocks, you can change stuff in realtime and observe its effects: http://i.imgur.com/1OQ04.png 19:24:03 19:25:39 You don't have to tell us, we're Lisp programmers. We know that being able to update a live app is cool beyond words. 19:25:51 -!- drewc` is now known as drewc 19:26:15 not quite beyond words 19:26:50 Okay, but on the border. 19:27:00 on the other hand have to hand it to Qt guys, qt4 and graphics view is an excellent high quality framework 19:27:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@132.207.222.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:27:23 maxm-: I just joined, how did you make that graph? what tools? 19:27:37 francogrex: commonqt 19:27:54 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:28:10 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:29:20 Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has joined #lisp 19:30:02 nicdev [~user@c-76-24-21-219.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:30:45 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:30:49 ok 19:30:57 *maxm-* is getting close to usable app, have all the pieces now other then realtime data provider and gui config dialog for studies, but all hard underlaying work/refactoring is done, should be a piece of cake.. 19:34:43 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:34:56 -!- sammi` [sammi@gateway/shell/devio.us/x-acamvrtxkhazrnvi] has left #lisp 19:35:29 Zulu_ [~Zulu@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:34 maxm-: is that for your own trading? 19:36:53 -!- Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has quit [Quit: Hilbert_] 19:37:01 or is it going to some app you make available 19:37:11 Guthur: yes, the basic idea is that I can daytrade and make money in futures 19:37:27 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:37:41 but it requires sitting watching the market like a hawk, and usually I get maybe 3-4 points per day 19:37:44 hehe similar to most everyones 'basic idea' 19:37:55 and easy to get distracted and either miss opportunities, or get underwater 19:37:56 ...trade something and make money, hehe 19:38:21 maxm-: There's probably more money in selling the app to day-traders. :-P 19:38:45 I always wanted to try mechanical approach, but all the available tools like tradestation etc seems very primitive, and have home-grown weird scripting languages 19:39:03 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 19:39:05 quite possibly, day-traders are increasingly going up against algo-trading systems 19:39:07 so I decided to do my own, but first I have to reproduce the charting app I'm using for manual trading 19:39:18 which could be a tough opponent 19:39:34 manuel_ [~manuel_@p579203AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:47 nyef: day-traders already have tradestation etc.. Its a huge competition in that arena, and the apps that had been in development for ages accumulated huge feature lists... The main advantage of my app will be that its fully lispable, and a realistic tick-by-tick simulator, that includes the order book simulation (ie putting your order in, realistically simulates when it will get filled) 19:41:32 Fair enough. Good luck with the trading, then. 19:41:32 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-19.wbs.co.za] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:41:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-19.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:42:07 yea something to fill my time with, plus if it does not pan out, I alawys can try impressing ppl on interviews with it :-) 19:42:38 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 19:42:53 -!- manuel__ [~manuel_@p57920562.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:43:16 Seems reasonable to me, maxm. 19:43:47 -!- pnathan [~Adium@76.178.165.160] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:44:56 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:08 superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 19:45:08 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:46:29 piece of cake! 19:46:35 lies 19:46:56 i'll have some cake if it's going 19:48:01 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:49:10 superflit [~superflit@71-208-218-28.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:49:43 -!- marw [~marw@unaffiliated/marw] has left #lisp 19:50:53 Cake tomorrow for quicklisp's first birthday. 19:51:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 19:53:57 but 19:54:00 You lie. 19:56:55 I will even get one decorated with a big Q 19:57:08 xan_ [~xan@132.207.222.129] has joined #lisp 19:57:24 But then people might think you're celebrating the Q Continuum 19:57:39 Not my problem. 19:59:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:01:13 -!- kingless [~user@108.65.61.54] has quit [Quit: time to shop!] 20:03:18 is it normal to get an error with (type-of 2574839578493758320578439207584392075483920574832905748329057806123490579873568943207584930275843920.1) in sbcl ? 20:03:33 arithmetic error FLOATING-POINT-OVERFLOW signalled 20:03:43 wbooze: Try it with just the number? 20:03:52 yes 20:04:09 Operation was SCALE-FLOAT, operands (0.5886018 331) 20:04:24 Okay, so it's a reader error. 20:04:29 oh ok 20:04:31 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:04:37 At least, most likely. 20:05:14 yes i have to escape the debugger twice 20:05:17 putting "d0" on the end to make it a double works. 20:05:23 the other error is a reader error 20:05:36 wbooze: Stray close-paren? 20:05:51 Does anyone know what happens if I have an array B displaced on to array A, and then I adjust array A? Is there a chance that B will not be pointing to the same array? 20:06:00 yes it tells me unmatched closed paren or so, but that's not the case 20:06:54 Actually, it is the case: The debugger doesn't purge standard-input, but you returned from READ, so the only thing available in the input buffer is the close-paren. 20:07:08 And then the REPL calls READ again... 20:07:29 yep ok 20:07:39 so it's a follow error 20:07:42 is there something builtin in slime to customize indentation for some forms ? 20:08:00 galdor: Have a look for something called "lisp-indent-function". 20:08:20 for example, i'd like top-level forms starting with defoperation (only in the package :rune) to indent an argument as a documentation string 20:08:35 ok I'm gonna have a look at it 20:08:42 galdor: But, AIUI, most of the automatic customization is based on the arglist of whatever function/macro starts a given form. 20:09:31 dmiles [dmiles@72.19.53.83] has joined #lisp 20:09:33 galdor: make one thing indent like the other (put 'catch-case 'common-lisp-indent-function (get 'handler-bind 'common-lisp-indent-function)) 20:10:18 Hmm. That's kindof neat. 20:10:56 see documentation on cl-indent.el in emacs sources 20:11:11 Can we make it do things with, say, the :GENERATOR clause of a DEFINE-VOP form? 20:11:23 (put 'bind 'common-lisp-indent-function '((&whole 4 &rest (&whole 1 1 2)) &body)) 20:11:29 for metabang-bind 20:12:24 Does it do anything sane with symbol packages? 20:12:39 slime has a module slime-indentetion which fixes a few problems too, adds aligining of keywords in lambda forms etc 20:13:08 nyef: no, but I seen slime-indentation has some support for defining indentation from lisp side per package 20:13:32 can I provide the package name, aka (put 'rune::defoperation 'common-lisp-indent-function '(4 &lambda &body)) ? 20:13:40 Hmm... Even when you don't have a running lisp? 20:13:41 look at contribswank-indentation.lisp 20:14:00 galdor: probably not 20:14:05 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.181.60] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:14:38 mhh 20:14:41 (My specific use-case here is hacking SBCL guts, which has some slightly idiosyncratic indent requirements, and is not infrequently done in a traditional build-compile-test cycle. 20:14:44 ) 20:15:03 stever2 [~steve@cpe-75-84-223-152.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:15:21 nyef: hmm slime's cl-indent from contrib specifically has a style setting for SBCL 20:15:45 Guess I'll have to check it out, then. Thanks. 20:17:01 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@72.19.53.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:17:23 nyef: see contrib/slime-cl-indent.el, buffer local var common-lisp-style (it probably has some way of setting it per package or such) 20:19:31 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:22:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:24:19 *peterhil`* wonders why I was thinking today afternoon that it'd be easy to redefine matlisp's matrix objects to have ndims slots and move nrows and ncols to functions, and add strides slot -- all with TDD... I just got the Matlisp to compile again, added a first fiveam test and got depressed skimming around the source. First I was wondering why I can't make sense of it, but then realized it has mixed tabs and spaces all over. Maybe a few b 20:25:04 Hmmm, was that too long action comment? 20:25:44 maybe a few beers later ... 20:25:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@87.212.64.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:25:53 maxm-: your advice worked perfectly, thank you :) 20:25:58 cut off at "maybe a few be" here 20:26:00 peterhil`: how fast is matlisp? 20:26:00 but we get the idea 20:26:39 mcstar: I haven't done much profiling yet. But it feels quite fast. Printing seems to be very slow though... 20:26:43 why is incremental output always getting slower in sbcl ? as with piping stuff etc... ? 20:27:06 peterhil`: have you used other matrix/vector libs? maybe in comparison to them? 20:27:38 mcstar: I have tried gsll, but gave up on because of the verbosity of it's usage. 20:27:57 nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.182.32] has joined #lisp 20:28:17 (run-program "/bin/ls" '("-R" "/tmp/*") :output t :wait nil) does display all of it recursively and i have the suspicion that as it trods it way from folder to folder or deep down it gets slower or so.... 20:28:21 i tried antik today, which is supposed ti provide the matrix-vector classes to gsll and seemed to be very slow 20:28:22 maybe that's just me 20:30:03 I have also sources for maxima, series, clem, femlisp, lisplab, lisp-matrix, tpapp's lla, clmath, cl-blapack, spartns, sheafhom etc... But can't really say I have *used* them... 20:30:07 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.1.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:30:27 Of those tpapp's lla seems very promising, but was not quite ready IIRC. 20:30:59 well the * glob was useless, as ls is not the shell..... 20:31:12 peterhil`: What verbosity? 20:31:24 wbooze: You're passing -R already, just lose the glob? 20:31:26 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:51 wbooze: Alternately, you might be able to do something to emulate it with DIRECTORY or some POSIX interface. 20:31:58 I'd like to add NumPy style multi-dimensional iterator and slicing to matlisp, along with automatic broadcasting of scalar values to arrays. 20:32:14 peterhil`: have you checked out sb-cga 20:32:17 The book Beatiful Code has a chapter on NumPy iterators 20:32:19 nyef: did i meant not that, it's a typo i did, the problem is is it me feeling it is getting slower and slower or is it really so ? 20:32:37 Guthur: I have the source, but haven't really looked at sb-cga 20:32:44 it will take advantage of SSE when it can, iirc 20:32:46 wbooze: Slower and slower over what kind of time frame, in what context? 20:32:54 Guthur: Ok, cool. 20:33:08 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-165-121.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:12 If you're dumping to emacs, and have accumulated a meg or so of output, your bottleneck is probably emacs, for example. 20:33:19 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:33:23 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-165-121.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:33:23 can't remember if it does NxM matrics though, or just 4x4, I only wanted 4x4 at the time 20:33:27 ok i'm running ls -R from shell now, to compare it 20:33:28 Or is it that SBCL 1.0.51 is slower than 1.0.47? 20:33:34 woah 20:33:38 shell already finished 20:33:53 and that run-program stuff is still printing ...... 20:33:59 -!- Guthur [~user@host86-148-186-28.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:06 Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@86-45-172-79-dynamic.b-ras2.chf.cork.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:24 Or are you using McCLIM or something like that? 20:34:54 wbooze: its most likely your repl.. clean it up with C-c M-o ( dont remember if its default or no) 20:35:05 help [~y3llow@111-240-174-11.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:07 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-174-11.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:10 repl slows down after around 100k lines in it a lot 20:35:11 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:35:19 -!- help is now known as Guest3366 20:35:24 maybe it is the emacs interface which makes it slower ? 20:35:29 LiamH: Using gsll was very cumbersome because of the requirement to use mgrid (or something like that) type. Maybe I just didn't get it, but it took a long time before I could get an complex valued vector to be multiuplied and exponentiated with gsll. 20:35:30 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:33 didn't try it from the console 20:35:35 Emacs basically sucks when you have files that are "too big". 20:35:47 Emacs tends to be extremely slow with large outputs. 20:35:49 I noticed this long ago, doing SBCL builds and the like. 20:35:52 ah ok 20:35:52 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:56 then it's emacs i suppose 20:36:41 consequence of "programming by regexp everything" style 20:36:57 Guthur [~user@host86-148-186-28.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:37:22 peterhil`: Multiplication should be pretty straightforward, matrix-product. Though I did put a port of matrix exponentiation, it's not official (nor advertised) by GSL because they don't have tests for it (last I asked them). But that should be straightforward too. 20:37:33 -!- Guest3366 [~y3llow@111-240-174-11.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:37:59 LiamH: BTW, what's the copyright/licensing status of these functions: http://common-lisp.net/~lhealy/numerical/floating-point.lisp 20:38:00 help_ [~y3llow@111-240-174-11.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:38:14 emacs really does exert its own gravity field, doesn't it? It does too much useful stuff to abandon, and there's too much code behind the bits that one does use to rewrite. 20:38:27 peterhil`: You do have to use foreign-array objects, but there are many (easy, I dare say) ways to do that. 20:38:44 LiamH: I'd like to use those functions in my tests. 20:39:26 peterhil`: What I do is set grid:*default-grid-type* to 'grid:foreign-array, then just use the #m macro. 20:39:29 nyef: recently I've been sucked in way more 20:39:53 Mmm. I've been trying to figure out how to get org-mode to do a few things the way I want. 20:39:53 ever since I started using it at work, I've begun moving much more of my workflow into emacs 20:39:54 peterhil`: I think that file is also in GSLL, but I don't mind if you use it in something else. 20:40:06 -!- Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@86-45-172-79-dynamic.b-ras2.chf.cork.eircom.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:40:11 Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@86-45-172-79-dynamic.b-ras2.chf.cork.eircom.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:13 One huge brake on my emacs adoption is actually Xcode. 20:40:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:40:28 LiamH: Ok, but so it's basically GPL or LGPL code? 20:40:37 just recently moved to ERC, not sure that counts as 'work'flow though 20:40:49 -!- Zulu_ [~Zulu@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:40:56 Not because Xcode is good (it's irritating as hell sometimes), but because I need to use it for the day job. 20:41:10 peterhil`: By default, I suppose, but I'm flexible if you have other ideas. 20:41:29 nyef: does xcode speak swank yet? 20:41:54 slyrus: So I can drive it from emacs, you mean? 20:42:08 no, so xcode can drive sbcl 20:42:38 I doubt it. Has anyone figured out how to make plugins for Xcode 4 yet? 20:43:28 (At the very least, I need IBPlugins, and actually being able to have custom file editors and whatnot would be very cool.) 20:45:18 is there any built-in for spliting strings or should i roll my own? 20:45:30 Besides, wouldn't you want a decent editor for lisp code before you worry about integration? 20:45:36 dRbiG: cl-ppcre:split 20:45:54 dRbiG: On the whole, no. Have a look at CL-PPCRE and SPLIT-SEQUENCE. 20:46:02 maxm-: not exactly built-in, and i need a simple one 20:46:12 ok, thanks again! 20:46:13 eheh, it is emacs, now i see 20:47:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 20:48:04 imho nothing simpler then (cl-ppcre:split " +" string) 20:48:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Client Quit] 20:48:30 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p579203AA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 20:49:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 20:51:44 LiamH: The reason I ask, is because I am trying to port my sound synthesis engine from Python to Lisp and I'm not quite sure yet how I want to license it eventually, so I try go keep my options open by not using GPL code. I think I'd like to dual license it eventually with BSD/MIT and commercial license for commercial uses. 20:52:53 peterhil`: OK 20:54:22 But as the things are, I'm starting to feel I have never enough time to really get it going. So I've also thought of just releasing the thing as open source, but before of that I'd like to make some architectural changes and generally make it a bt more mature, so people get the idea of where it should be going. 20:55:16 I know what you mean... software always takes longer than you think. 20:57:45 Recently I've pondered on how to make it flexible enough so that each of time, frequency, sampling rate, phase, amplitude envelope and oscillator "shape" function can be changed ond modulated independently. And also on how to be able to save "instrument sounds" as symbolic objects using physical units. 20:57:45 ... Wasn't that some time estimation rule? 20:57:50 :-) 20:58:02 "It always takes longer than you think, even if you take this rule into account." 20:58:13 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:58:18 hofstadter's law. 20:59:00 Thought it was someone beginning with a #\W ? 20:59:20 I've quite good idea on how to separate them, but not yet fully on how to make them work together... as in should I use data-flow (graph of functons), actors, frp or something else to represent the synthesis "components". 20:59:21 The first 90% of the software takes 90% of the time. The remaining 10% takes another 90% of the time. 20:59:27 I mean, it's the sort of thing Hofstadter would cover in GEB:EGB, but... 20:59:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:59:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:59:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:00:04 More than one person could have come up with it independently. 21:02:06 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ninety-ninety_rule 21:02:11 wikipedia has it so it must be true 21:03:45 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 21:07:27 is there a way to load climacs without loading clx ? 21:08:16 mcclim null backend? 21:08:16 wbooze: Probably, but you might have to work at it. 21:08:29 is there a feature like #+emacs #-emacs or so ? 21:08:30 wbooze: You'll need to not pull in the CLX backend for McCLIM. 21:08:53 uhh, i already dl'ed all 21:09:07 Sure, that's fine. 21:09:14 can i just purge the clx ? 21:09:19 You just need to figure out how to not /load/ it. 21:09:33 From a running image? 21:09:43 no from the ql dir 21:10:23 ISTR there was some way to give MCCLIM a hint of your preferred backend. Someone who uses cairo may know better. 21:10:32 hmmm 21:11:09 i already have cl-opengl, that's why 21:11:15 and it conflicts with clx 21:11:47 Well, it's their fault for picking the same package name as CLX. :-P 21:12:10 (One of your options, BTW, is to use RENAME-PACKAGE to avoid the conflict.) 21:12:11 PeterFA [43b7fe7b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.183.254.123] has joined #lisp 21:12:21 Anyone good at writing nasty letters? 21:12:23 I need some coaching. 21:13:18 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:13:39 Bah. Just use google to find an archive of nastygrams on the web somewhere and crib liberally. 21:13:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:13:57 *akovalenko* would like CLX not to restrict "default display" detection to Unix. In X11 environment for Windows, there's normally nothing different about DISPLAY and XAUTHORITY.. 21:14:30 akovalenko: Send a patch to the clx-devel list? 21:14:31 Joreji [~thomas@134.61.75.32] has joined #lisp 21:14:33 BTW, I had a plan for starting to do TDD with my fork of Matlisp: Making another asd file where I can replace one file at a time to use tested code, and just add a test system for the old code. But I guess I'll be getting quite a lot of conflicts that way when switching between the systems. So would it be better to maybe use a #+numpy feature instead? 21:14:43 (Or has there already been one, and I've forgotten about it? 21:15:01 It seems Matlisp doesn't have any tests. 21:15:04 nyef: as usually, I'm reluctant on the grouns "what if they _want_ it to be this way". 21:15:12 *grounds 21:16:12 there's a clx devel list? 21:16:17 I thought everything had fallen apart 21:16:21 ... I thought there was? 21:16:36 Should be on clnet somewhere, with me as admin. 21:16:43 oh right 21:16:52 I have no idea if I'm even on it 21:17:07 I am! 21:17:18 dwim [~dwim@242.Red-81-32-229.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:17:28 oh yeah, I remember: I ignore it because the only discussion it has is about :little-endian 21:17:28 There are a lots of (dotimes n .. (dotimes m ... in Matlisp code that could be replaced by using an iterator to just go through some matrix/array in the right order using a flat vector that is used as storage anyway. 21:17:56 Oh, god. I had managed to repress those memories. 21:18:06 I suppose I'll need to do something about :little-endian soon. 21:18:40 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:18:45 ... like remove the one place in SBCL that sets it up. The MIPS backend, wasn't it? >:-D 21:19:52 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:20:01 peterhil`: all that I care about in matlisp goes through BLAS/LAPACK anyway. 21:20:24 nyef: does cl-opengl use clx somewhere? 21:20:25 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:20:28 I'm not seeing that 21:20:53 Guthur: No, but they both have packages named "gl". 21:21:00 ah 21:21:02 yes 21:21:57 *Guthur* quietly blames CL's not so great packaging system 21:22:11 nicknames, hopefully. 21:22:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:22:30 nyef: nah, it's not us, it's trivial-features 21:22:32 ... I don't think they /are/ nicknames. 21:22:41 I mean, surely, no-one actually tries to /use/ sbcl on mipsel? 21:22:45 pkhuong: Yes, there seems to be few packages (femlisp, clem, lisplab) using matlisp just for the BLAS/LAPACK bindings. 21:23:15 Krystof: I couldn't even /build/ SBCL on MIPS last time I tried, dunno if it was big or little endian. 21:23:16 Davidbrcz [~david@193.54.120.175] has joined #lisp 21:23:18 any ideas how to supress quicklisps output on ql:quickload? 21:23:25 (Of course, it was a linux 2.4 box...) 21:23:46 dRbiG: Bind whatever output stream variable it uses to a (make-broadcast-stream)? 21:23:50 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@124.80-203-136.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 21:23:57 Guthur: The packaging system is great, although maybe quite hard to learn well... I just today learned you can use :pathname for different modules that reside in the same directory. 21:24:19 peterhil`: That's not the package system, that's something else. 21:24:30 ASDF i suspect 21:24:39 asdf yes, to be spcific. 21:24:49 Package system is namespaces. 21:25:05 peterhil: do you need a program to solve electrical circuits? 21:25:53 Posterati: I know about one such system -- what was it's name...? 21:26:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-40.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:26:38 nyef: indeed :) 21:26:41 peterhil: I mean my system! 21:28:01 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:43 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 21:28:57 Posterdati: So, is our system called circuit or something else? I just looked at it's source and it seemed quite interesing. 21:29:46 How perfect, not only does this company make money in DRM, but they run off of .NET too. 21:29:49 http://www.ingramcontent.com/about/executive.aspx 21:30:33 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:31:10 Posterdati: I forgot what the name of the circuit solver system was that I looked into. But I don't know electronics well enough to really have a use for that. Although the simulation of concurrent events was interesting. 21:32:02 And complex number math of course... 21:34:01 I don't use complex number in my program 21:34:30 ok, i think i've got basic functionality with http://paste.lisp.org/display/125182 - comments welcome except for indentation (i'm aware it's broken); (example output http://paste.lisp.org/display/125183) 21:35:08 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.69.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:08 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@vaxjo7.69.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:35:08 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 21:35:40 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:36:24 Posterdati: Oh, true. I wasn't sure of that and didn't check. I use complex numbers extensively on my sound synthesis program, and learned from Julius O. Smiths writings that they're often used in more advanced electronics, so I guessed they would be used in circuit. 21:36:48 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:37:35 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:38:36 I'll go to visit bar now, and not bother you with my reckless (and mildly intoxicated) comments... Have fun! :-) 21:38:54 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.137.79] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:06 ? 21:39:32 peterhil: http://code.google.com/p/circuit/ 21:39:46 -!- Kron [~Kron@CPE0013f7c06a42-CM0013f7c06a3e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:53 Complex numbers in circuit analysis? Isn't that mostly for frequency response and whatnot? 21:39:55 -!- xan_ [~xan@132.207.222.129] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:40:15 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has joined #lisp 21:40:15 Posterdati: I've had two beers that start to get me a bit drunk... I guess it's better to leave this channel now. ;-) 21:40:45 nyef: for steady state analysis 21:40:55 nyef: See http://www.dsprelated.com/dspbooks/mdft/ 21:41:01 can WRITE (and PRIN1, PRINC, etc.) be used to just return a value, without printing anything ? 21:41:04 Pupuser-1 [~puppy@pool-72-70-60-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:17 I tried with a NIL output stream, and it still print to the standard output 21:41:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@193.54.120.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:42 galdor: PRIN1-TO-STRING, WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING, FORMAT NIL, et cetera? 21:41:53 That's DSP stuff, but the writer has background as electrical engineer 21:41:54 oh didn't thought about these one 21:41:55 thank you 21:43:20 -!- Pupuser-1 [~puppy@pool-72-70-60-109.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:45:26 dRbiG: you can use non-local exits, (loop named outer (loop ... (return-from outer value))) 21:45:51 -!- kenjin2201 [~kenjin@218.235.8.175] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:46:40 DrBrig: my personal preference is if you using (progn) inside (if), then just convert (if) to (cond) 21:48:45 I think that (if ... (progn) (progn)) says something more about the number of cases that are involved. 21:48:55 COND seems more... expandable, to me. 21:49:14 The IF says "there are only two cases, there should not be more." 21:49:22 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:49:34 (Similarly, WHEN and UNLESS say "there is only one case".) 21:49:46 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:49:51 dRbiG: also IMHO the good approach is to separate retreiving and manipulating data... I would do (defclass episode () ((name) (airdate))) ... Then have (xml->episode element), then parse the file to obtain list of episodes, and then yo can manipulate/search them in a more understandable fashion 21:49:51 What's a potential cause of this error? http://paste.lisp.org/display/125184 21:49:55 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:50:19 I've often seen invalid read/write addresses, but this is just "Unhandled memory fault" 21:50:25 Oh, yes. Definitely separate converting from XML to internal format from doing anything with the internal format. 21:50:52 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.212.74] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:51:17 Phoodus: That's a SIGSEGV of some sort. And, yes, SBCL is notoriously bad at providing useful information on those. 21:51:47 Phoodus: Your best bet is to try and get a backtrace, and to try and find out what function is at that address. 21:52:14 how do I go about with the latter? 21:52:27 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:52:34 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-109.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:52:40 maxm- & nyef: i agree it's a mess right now and i find processing xmls clunky to say the least; thanks for comments, i think my next step is figuring out a way to do it in a clean way :) 21:52:40 gdb, maybe? 21:52:53 Assuming that it doesn't just show up in the backtrace. 21:53:08 that's the first error in a spew of others 21:53:18 so I presume some sort of corruption is actually happening 21:53:26 the system dies shortly afterwards 21:53:31 Phoodus: Oh, fun. 21:53:35 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:53:52 I've got safety 3, debug 2 (for TCO to work) 21:54:00 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 21:54:05 -!- drewc [~user@74.210.90.27] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:54:08 Fire up the sbcl binary in gdb and see if it knows where 0x4183e19 is, it "feels" like it might be a runtime address to me. 21:54:12 commented out all my dynamic-extent declares 21:54:24 drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:59 hmm, ok. I'll need some hand-holding or google time to get that working 21:55:17 *Phoodus* hasn't used gdb in forever 21:55:28 gdb /path/to/sbcl, disassemble 0x4183e19, and see what it does, I think. 21:55:40 ... typical. I don't actually have gdb installed. 21:56:24 "No function contains specified address" 21:56:35 Hrm... 21:57:19 maxm-: about non-local exits: i've seen that there are tags and (go tag), i was just wondering how do you specify a tag? like :my-label? 21:57:20 also tried it with 0x1004B7C7C6 21:57:23 It's definitely not a heap space. 21:58:14 0x1004b7c7c6 is in dynamic-space. 21:58:45 0x4183e19 looks like data segment 21:59:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-131-40.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:42 attempt to overwrite a string literal, maybe? (objdump or /proc//maps may give a clue) 22:00:32 Hunh. I had thought that that was the code address, not the data address. 22:00:54 Bloody toxic waste dump of an error handling scheme. 22:01:27 the stderr dump gives the PC at 0x1004b7c7c6, and 0x4183e19 looks like the target address of the mem op 22:01:34 We can't really know code or data without objdump, but it's uncommon to see a fault at code address while PC is somewhere else 22:02:26 Okay, so you're in some lisp function, and there's no real way to know which due to the GC and your process going away. 22:02:56 DrBrig: tags are only used inside of tagbody form, its very common for almost all standard looping constructs to be macros that expand into tagbody, but AFAIK its not required by the spec so you can't rely on it 22:02:57 And hitting up some address possibly in the runtime's data space, but getting a memory fault instead? 22:03:25 maxm-: Have a look at most of the looping constructs. Their descriptions typically involve the phrase "implicit tagbody". 22:03:34 ah ok then 22:03:52 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-51-111.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 22:05:02 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-137.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:05:05 the symbol table from objdump only goes up to 0x637510 22:05:06 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-137.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:05:11 Does 418e19 look like something tried to strip a pointer lowtag tag off of a fixnum? 22:05:32 (you missed a digit, it's 7 hex digits long) 22:05:41 Yeah, I missed a 3. 22:05:52 But my argument depends on the 9, so :-P 22:06:19 yeah, fixnum tag is %00 though? 22:06:43 What's sb-vm:other-pointer-lowtag? f? 22:06:48 (15?) 22:07:04 And you're on 64-bit, so the fixtag is three bits wide. 22:07:41 yeah, but isn't it 100 and 000 for even fixnum and odd fixnum? 22:08:00 (not respectively :-P) 22:08:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:18 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-149-137.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 22:08:35 Okay, now subtract other-pointer-lowtag from odd-fixnum-lowtag, mask to four bits again, and tell me what you get. 22:08:44 (Hint: Nine.) 22:10:16 (15 - 4) & 15? that's 11 22:10:44 ... Okay, clearly I've forgotten my tag-ordering. 22:11:11 Oh, wait. 22:11:15 *Phoodus* knows little about the subject anyway 22:11:20 (or did I subtract backwards?) 22:11:34 You subtracted backwards, and used the wrong value for odd-fixnum-lowtag. 22:11:42 It's only 4 on 32-bit systems. 22:12:13 It's 8 on x86-64, unless you're me or pkhuong, in which case it can be 2, 4, or 8. 22:13:56 Now, if the compiler "knows" that something is an object of a particular type that happens to be represented with an other-pointer-lowtag and some given widetag in the header, it can skip most of the checking, and just grab for a slot by its offset. Same can happen with just about any pointer type, actually. 22:15:57 does that eliding happen with (safety 3)? 22:16:04 No, it doesn't. 22:16:24 Does your (safety 3) code call any other functions? 22:16:31 Are interrupts involved? 22:16:34 Are threads involved? 22:16:47 Is SERVE-EVENT involved? 22:17:07 (safety 3) is declaimed at the top of every file 22:17:16 Are you using SB-ALIEN or another FFI? 22:17:20 threads are involved. I've got timers config'd to launch a thread for its handler 22:17:21 no ffi 22:17:40 Oh, god. Okay, so you have asynchronous interrupts starting threads? 22:17:46 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:17:53 it seemed the safest to avoid deadlocks 22:18:49 Umm... wow. 22:18:59 That... just... wow. 22:19:10 Yeah, I have no idea if that should work or not. 22:19:38 it's a parameter to sb-ext:make-timer, so I presumed it was a working, supported featur 22:19:47 Really? Hunh. 22:19:48 until safepoints are in, it's a good way to *create* deadlocks, actually 22:20:00 (make-timer #'fun :thread t) 22:20:15 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:20:28 Was that a nikodemus special? 22:20:28 ok, so creating a dedicated thread and telling the timer to throw its interrupts at that one is safer? 22:20:42 I have no idea, actually. 22:20:49 Phoodus: let the timer signal a semaphore instead 22:21:17 hmm, ok, so remove the processing from the timer handler altogether 22:21:17 I do know that it could take me a good couple of hours to come anywhere near a conclusion. 22:21:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:21:58 muscle_35 [~Erwin@d54C18E82.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:22:00 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:00 -!- muscle_35 [~Erwin@d54C18E82.access.telenet.be] has left #lisp 22:22:08 however, I'm not getting deadlocks, I'm getting SIGSEGVs. Would that still be a potential cause? 22:22:50 Wait... is your code thread-safe? 22:23:12 Can't believe I didn't ask this already. 22:23:24 yes, it should be 22:23:48 And is everything your code depends on also thread-safe? 22:23:53 (hash-tables, for example?) 22:24:08 yes, this was ground-up threaded, I've got guarded-value libraries for doing locking accesses to values, etc 22:24:42 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:25:40 now, there could very well be some obscure bug, but trying to isolate it is the problem 22:26:14 with the safety cranked, it shouldn't be doing things like misusing literals as pointers or whatever 22:26:25 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:26:35 Can you do a binary chop to eliminate some of the code as possible culprits or contributory factors? 22:27:30 marsell [~marsell@120.22.43.224] has joined #lisp 22:27:40 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:27:41 that's tough. Only when it's been running for a while, and with clients connected, does the error manifest. So it pretty much all needs to be up & running to test the failure 22:27:56 Dummy clients that just connect and disconnect? 22:28:39 Then include additional operations in the dummy clients if load-testing with just connect and disconnect doesn't trigger it? 22:28:42 with one "real" client and a SLIME client, the error seems to occur within 10 minutes 22:28:56 with the real client doing nothing but pinging every 30 seconds 22:29:24 That's all you need to trigger it? 22:29:30 seangrove [~user@114.205.211.236] has joined #lisp 22:29:31 What happens if you up the ping rate? 22:29:38 And is that with SLIME doing anything? 22:30:00 nothing on the REPL, the CPUs are busy in that state regardless, due to the current query architecture 22:30:28 That's... unfortunate-sounding. 22:30:36 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:31:09 it is, which is why I was wondering if any information could be had from the first error dumps 22:32:30 -!- Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@86-45-172-79-dynamic.b-ras2.chf.cork.eircom.net] has quit [Quit: Hilbert_] 22:33:11 Your best bet is possibly to find out what 1004b7c7c6 is. Your weapons for this task are search_dynamic_space(), %code-entry-points, and %simple-fun-name. 22:33:38 Oh, and possibly %simple-fun-next. 22:33:38 ok 22:33:41 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:34:20 Is the faulting code address a constant, or does it vary? 22:34:41 it's varying 22:35:00 Okay, so you need some way to find out from the debugger. 22:35:01 this last run I got "Memory fault at 0 (pc=(nil), sp=0x7fff..." 22:35:10 Ouch. 22:35:12 -!- PeterFA [43b7fe7b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.183.254.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:35:20 as the only error; no cascades 22:35:43 ... you're not redefining named functions as part of normal operation, are you? 22:35:59 the backtrace is only post_signal_tramp -> call_into_lisp -> sb-sys:memory-fault-error 22:36:00 There's typically a race condition if you do that, I know there's one on PPC. 22:36:31 no. I do some evals to build up lambdas at runtime for data-driven codegen, but no named functions 22:36:44 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-11-33.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 22:36:44 and those are done early on, not minutes in when the crash occurs 22:36:57 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:37:07 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 22:37:30 No storing lisp pointers outside of heap space, no games with get-lisp-obj-address and make-lisp-obj? 22:38:01 correct, just plain-jane lisp 22:38:42 Hrm... I'm running low on ideas, then. 22:38:43 added an annotation to the paste for a common error after the initial memory fault: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125184 22:39:06 I presume that disabling the background tasks of your query engine stops the whole thing cold? 22:39:13 yes 22:39:16 Oh dear. 22:39:31 Well that's interesting. 22:39:49 Losing somewhere in the thread guts, huh? 22:40:38 You might check to see if any interesting-looking bugs have been fixed since whichever version of SBCL you're using was released. 22:41:19 this is now with the latest 1.0.51, patched for 64-bit bytes-consed-between-gcs 22:42:44 Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has joined #lisp 22:44:31 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:46:05 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:46:44 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:46:53 So, guess what the last thing touched before 1.0.51 was? 22:47:49 22:47:49 A thread synchronization bugfix committed during the freeze period. 22:47:56 I annotated again, printing a mutex is calling type-of, which is is locking something that's recursively locked 22:47:59 xan_ [~xan@modemcable210.225-70-69.static.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:47:59 oops 22:48:28 nyef: this error is manifesting in the same way in 46, 49, and 51 22:48:39 Hrm... Lovely. 22:48:49 which very well could be my code, but its' trashing something inside sbcl 22:48:58 At this point, I'm out of my depth, and rapidly running out of energy. 22:49:06 yeah, thanks for the pointers 22:49:18 just shooting arrows out trying to find something to bite into 22:49:20 Phoodus: I'd like to hear whether switching to semaphore will fix it 22:49:36 -!- moah [~gnu@dslb-178-006-213-130.pools.arcor-ip.net] has left #lisp 22:49:36 akovalenko: yeah, I'll try that 22:51:18 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:51:41 -!- Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has quit [Quit: Hilbert_] 22:55:22 gienah [~mwright@121.44.52.242] has joined #lisp 22:56:38 Okay, time I was long gone. 22:56:41 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 22:56:48 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.155.101] has joined #lisp 23:00:53 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 23:03:42 -!- sid3k [~user@li298-167.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:08:09 Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has joined #lisp 23:08:56 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:10:36 sid3k [~user@li298-167.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 23:12:27 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7BFF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:10 srolls [~user@76.126.212.192] has joined #lisp 23:15:38 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7DD7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:21:16 plainas [~p@31.44.230.79] has joined #lisp 23:21:33 what's a good lisp implementation to follow sicp (book and lectures)? 23:25:36 sicp doesn't use Common Lisp 23:25:39 plainas: I think you're looking for a scheme implementation, probably best to ask there. 23:25:45 #scheme 23:25:51 I'm not sure if it uses Scheme, or some pre-Scheme 23:26:12 Given the lineage of the book, I would say MIT scheme would be a safe bet. 23:26:39 I'm watching the original lectures from 86, the lecturer refers to the language as 'LISP' 23:27:07 MIT scheme would be racket? (genuine curiosity) 23:27:20 Again, try #scheme 23:28:53 tritchey [~tritchey@12.97.199.50] has joined #lisp 23:30:10 plainas: Lisp is a whole family of languages 23:30:26 #lisp is not a whole family of channels, is it? 23:30:26 including Common Lisp, Scheme, and a bunch of smaller ones 23:30:38 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:46 sicp is most closely related to scheme, afaik 23:30:53 -!- stever2 [~steve@cpe-75-84-223-152.socal.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 23:31:25 I don't know how different from other dialects scheme is, I never user lisp before 23:32:15 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A57B8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:54 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:33:23 right, we don't know scheme here. Go to #scheme for sicp help 23:33:44 *drewc* points out http://eli.thegreenplace.net/category/programming/lisp/sicp/ for CL doing SICP 23:35:54 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.155.101] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:36:25 -!- doug11 [~doug@host213-123-12-26.range213-123.btcentralplus.com] has left #lisp 23:38:20 -!- Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has quit [Quit: Hilbert_] 23:38:39 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: bonk] 23:40:01 Quadrescence [~quad@71-208-99-228.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:40:04 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@71-208-99-228.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:40:04 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:43:31 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 23:43:52 akovalenko: changing the timer to do a mutex-locked enqueue still manifests the error 23:44:05 (I did it this way because it was the easiest given my tools) 23:44:21 I'm going to try just doing a straight 0.1sec poll 23:44:22 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:44:34 if it still manifests, it's probably not timer/interrupt/etc related at all 23:45:07 Phoodus: thanks for the information. Meanwhile, I'll have a look at post_signal_tramp/call_into_lisp.. 23:46:40 akovalenko: After the initial memory error, I end up in recursive lock death. Swank trying to print out the backtrace triggers a lock which ends up being recursive death. I annotated that on the paste 23:47:09 that's probably valuable information for one part if this, related to what guts got mangled 23:47:25 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125184 23:51:53 specifically, (type-of #) tries to lock something which kills it 23:52:22 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:54 Hilbert_ [~Hilbert@93.95.87.130] has joined #lisp 23:54:43 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@12.97.199.50] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:57:46 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:58:59 xtd8 [~xtd@93-96-235-146.zone4.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp