00:00:05 Forget the code and devise a plan a three-year-old could follow. 00:00:17 Write it out. That's your program, ready to be translated into Lisp. 00:00:42 so if i said, look at the numbers, compare them, find the smallest 00:00:49 or is that not basic enough 00:00:54 Too complex. Think of it as a slow child. 00:00:56 Guest77797: Reduce the list using a function. See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fold_(higher-order_function) -- Fold is another name for reduce. 00:02:12 Guest, you want to write it out, in English, one small step at a time. If you aren't sure whether a step is simple enough or not, then it's too complex and you need to break it into several sub-steps. 00:03:57 The other thing I'd strongly recommend is tomorrow, first chance you get, going to your professor or teaching assistant and describing to them the issue you're having. I bet they can recommend a person that can point you in the right direction, a tutor or something. Usually there are lots of folks of that sort hanging about CS programs. 00:04:21 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 00:04:26 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-lxhypthpbnlvdrrl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:04:44 =departs briefly= 00:04:54 Guest77797: when trying to learn some new programming language, i find it helpful to actually type in the example code myself and play around with it. 00:05:32 Guest77797: that way, i get an initial feel for the language and learn how to actually enter some of it. 00:06:01 im having trouble even understanding iteration with do when i read it even with pseudocode 00:06:20 Guest77797: do is rather complex 00:06:29 Guest77797: you'd be better off with dolist 00:06:58 Guest77797: but as i said. try not inventing something on your own for a start. play around with code that others wrote. 00:07:51 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:08:45 well im not exactly starting from scratch 00:08:56 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-44c78c12.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 00:09:09 Guest77797: well, from looking at your code i can't say i'm convinced. 00:10:10 ok let me show you another one i was working on 00:10:43 -!- CrEddy [~overcasua@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:34 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125102 00:11:50 Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:12:11 Guest77797: you see, that is as bad as the first one. 00:12:23 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:12:30 Guest77797: please try dolist. and type in some code that actually works. 00:12:59 oh thats not it 00:13:22 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: good night] 00:13:23 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125103 00:14:10 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@c-71-237-71-104.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:14:28 and the problem im having is the return part 00:15:55 Guest77797: have a close look at the dolist hyperspec entry: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_dolist.htm 00:16:26 Guest77797: you are actually asked to solve a puzzle. my clue is: you need defun, a variable name, dolist, oddp and return. nothing else. 00:16:50 well, parens. 00:17:28 I think he can use his "when" too 00:19:44 not needed. 00:20:32 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:21:21 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:21:25 erm, sorry. sure. when. and a name for the function and its argument 00:21:41 but only one when :) 00:21:43 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:49 -!- Ivoz [Ivoz@unaffiliated/ivoz] has quit [] 00:22:24 Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 00:22:29 mogs [~mogs@119.64.49.14] has joined #lisp 00:22:34 H4ns: may we sort them for our new guest? 00:22:35 H4ns: no when, it seems 00:22:45 but i have all those things 00:22:58 H4ns: and the symbol 'none ! 00:23:08 Guest77797: you need to combine them correctly :) 00:23:28 oh, i see. When. 00:24:28 H4ns: also, shouldn't it be return-from ? 00:24:34 madnificent: no 00:24:56 *akovalenko* prefers find-if and or 00:25:16 madnificent: i just studied the dolist hyperspec entry yesterday and found that it also has an implicit tagbody, which is great! 00:25:25 akovalenko: sure. you're no freshman, tho 00:25:38 H4ns: where will you place the default case of 'none? 00:25:47 madnificent: read. 00:26:05 madnificent: you may also want to try it yourself. 00:26:28 *madnificent* will code something he needs instead, may scrollback later 00:26:56 *H4ns* will go to bed, already 8:30! 00:27:05 goodnight H4ns 00:27:07 is it something wrong with my parentheses 00:28:26 omigod something is wrong with your parenthesis 00:28:33 darnit! 00:28:51 one technique for a simple function like that is to execute a small sample case by hand, on paper. 00:29:48 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:29:50 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-152-162.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:31:34 i wish it were simple... 00:31:44 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-157-246.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:31:44 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 00:33:23 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:33:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:39:09 -!- clog [~nef@bespin.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:41:04 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:43:14 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:43:32 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.140] has joined #lisp 00:45:00 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.153.241] has quit [Quit: rme] 00:45:06 Guest77797: The steps are individually simple, the trick is isolating them. http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJ3/1. 00:48:00 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 00:49:33 so the problem is with my if statement 00:50:12 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:51:27 rme [~rme@50.43.153.241] has joined #lisp 00:52:11 pnq [~nick@ACA20230.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:52:27 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 00:55:15 or can the if statement not simply be put at the end. does it have to be integrated higher up 00:56:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:58:29 drewc` [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 00:59:36 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-59-7.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 01:00:07 -!- drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:00:08 BrianRice [~water@97-126-59-7.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:13 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2425.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:30 Kron [~Kron@69.166.25.6] has joined #lisp 01:06:28 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:07:21 heeeelp 01:09:14 Guest77797: Where's your paste? 01:09:36 -!- surrounder [~user@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has left #lisp 01:09:45 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:10:01 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125103 01:11:20 Guest77797: Why do you have it return NONE the first time it sees an even number? 01:11:58 i want it to return none if there are no odd numbers in the list 01:12:34 Then why do you check for even numbers in the middle of the loop? 01:13:03 i do...? 01:14:28 CrazyEddy [~CrazyEddy@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:15:01 Guest77797: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125103#2 I hope this makes it a bit easier to see what your code does. 01:17:37 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 01:17:42 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:17:54 sort of but i dont understand how i can get it to return none properly 01:19:11 The immediate step would be to move the NONE out of the loop, but you may notice that dolist allows another parameter in the iteration list that may be of use to you. 01:20:49 but i need to use none 01:21:25 I didn't say anything about not doing that. 01:21:49 Guest77797: how would you write a function that always returns NONE? 01:23:01 jlaire_ [~jlaire@80-248-244-31.cust.suomicom.fi] has joined #lisp 01:23:12 -!- jlaire_ [~jlaire@80-248-244-31.cust.suomicom.fi] has quit [Client Quit] 01:23:30 im not sure 01:23:35 Guest77797: what is the result of DOLIST (1) if it's terminated prematurely by a RETURN form, and (2) if it runs over entire list to completion? 01:24:49 obviously, you have to know how to write a function that always returns NONE, *before* you know how to write a function that sometimes returns NONE 01:25:23 (defun always-one () 1) 01:25:28 well bike says mine returns none when it first sees an even number 01:25:38 and it returns the odd number if that is first in the list 01:25:39 Bike is right 01:25:49 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:25:56 Let's translate your code to english: 01:26:15 (DOLIST ... => "Let's walk the list, element by element..." 01:27:09 (WHEN ... => "If we stumble upon an odd element, terminate our loop early, returning that odd element without looking further" 01:27:53 (IF ... => "If we find an even element, terminate our loop early, returning NONE without looking further" 01:27:57 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 01:28:43 so you're saying when needs to go 01:29:10 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 01:30:12 Why do you think that that's what is meant? 01:31:42 because maybe you can use if to say return an odd number if you see it and return none if there are no odd numbers in the list 01:32:23 If it finds an odd number, is there any need to continue the iteration? 01:32:32 Guest77797: can you know if there are no odd numbers in the list *before* the whole list was scanned? 01:32:55 no 01:33:11 and yes 01:33:16 wait no 01:33:28 If no, then at least one of "early terminations" looks wrong. 01:33:51 so i should get rid of if 01:34:21 correct (though it's not a complete solution yet) 01:34:28 but i need to use if 01:34:34 No 01:35:17 "Use do, if, oddp, and return to define (first-odd lst) which returns the first odd" 01:35:44 integer in a list of integers or 2018none if none are odd. 01:36:35 So, I was told to use wireshark to try to debug what SBCL is sending to AIM... but I'm not sure what I'm looking for. Any tips? 01:37:38 Oladon: first we need to be sure that a _working_ client uses the same protocol and connects to the same server for TOC 01:37:49 it does connect to the same server 01:38:07 Remember, I did a tcpdump of the Perl bot that uses Net::OSCAR 01:38:13 JuleKagge [~RLopez813@2001:470:1f09:7f8::15] has joined #lisp 01:38:14 checked the server; it's the same 01:38:22 the first few packets sent seem to be the same as well 01:38:24 but then it just disconnects me 01:39:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:39:58 I also got the Perl script to dump what it's actually sending, but there's a bunch of binary in there 01:40:38 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 01:41:29 -!- Guest77797 [~stella@bas2-montreal42-3096488197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:43:38 Oladon: there *is* a difference, then? I'm looking at Net::OSCAR and see no TOC2 stuff at all 01:43:53 HOLA SOY UN GAY DE 28 AÑOS.....BUSCO UN NOVIO VARONIL Y ACTIVO ENTRE LAS EDADES DE 18 Y 32 AÑOS QUE SEA MUY VERGUDO Y NO OBVIO..... ESPERO QUE ALGUIEN AQUI ME PUEDA DAR UNA BUENA CULEADA ENVIAME UN MENSAJE PRIVADO SE TE INTERESA ESTO! 01:44:37 I'm afraid, then, that TOC2 is either discontinued, or temorary unavailable, or secretly upgraded to something even more "innovative" 01:45:12 I don't see anything about toc2 in the Net::OSCAR, but it sends pretty similar flap commands 01:45:18 and the AIM server is responding to my stuff up to that point 01:45:19 JuleKagge: wrong 'lisp' channel 01:45:42 *Oladon* snicker 01:45:53 (that's why I have close to zero enthusiasm about fixing CLAIM -- we can't fix AOL so it won't break anything in the future) 01:46:19 Yeah, I feel you 01:46:24 qué? 01:46:25 I'm tempted to go the IMified route 01:46:32 and AOL have gotten really good at breaking things (: 01:46:34 Oladon: can you share wireshark dumps or something? (don't use your real account credentials if you will) 01:46:37 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:46:40 JuleKagge: eso no es canele correcto 01:47:10 akovalenko: Yeah, I can change my box's IP... should I be using any options with tshark? 01:48:08 (wireshark) 01:49:30 stella [~stella@bas2-montreal42-3096488197.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:50:05 Oladon: defaults seems to be reasonable (when you see packets, they will be exported, too) 01:50:07 -!- stella is now known as Guest66850 01:50:29 Hmm, what do you mean by exported? 01:50:43 as in "File -> Export" 01:51:02 No GUI... is it saving them automatically then? 01:51:29 and w.r.t. credentials, I meant, don't log in with your real username/password if you're going to make dump publicly visible 01:51:31 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has joined #lisp 01:51:39 ah, yeah 01:51:49 I'm trying to figure out how to give it a specific port to monitor now 01:52:09 All packets is too much data 01:52:46 Oladon: I've looked at man tshark, looks like it's saving to file in libpcap format by default 01:52:50 (that's ok) 01:53:12 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125106 01:53:14 Ok... do I need to be using -V and/or -w ? 01:54:03 (and are you wanting the Net::OSCAR output or the CLAIM output) 01:54:39 Oladon: tshark -R tcp.port==5190 should provide filtering 01:54:55 Ahh, thanks akovalenko. 01:55:27 Oladon: I want two outputs (separately) to compare them carefully. You know, "they look very similar" is not inspiring at all, when you talk of a half-binary protocol. 01:55:37 Nods, I understand 01:56:55 And you want the full output, i.e. -V right? 01:57:10 -!- antifuchs [~asfFreeno@70-36-234-231.dsl.dynamic.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:00:01 akovalenko: what's your preferred method of receipt of these? Can't very well pb them in libpcap format 02:00:14 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 02:02:51 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:03:25 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:03:46 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 02:04:35 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 02:05:32 [received by email] 02:05:49 :) 02:06:25 BrokenCog [~softserva@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 02:06:39 Oladon: maybe you'd share an example perl bot (no real credentials inside, again) -- I've signed up with AOL for testing this stuff, but having to write PERL is too much :) 02:06:52 Oh, definitely. I've got one on pb, hang on :) 02:07:16 http://pastebin.com/4Z0WW2kF 02:07:29 Sorry about the insane amounts of dependencies required for IM::Engine 02:09:49 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:05 You can also edit OSCAR.pm and change $self->{LOGLEVEL} to OSCAR_DBG_DEBUG to see everything that happens during the connection 02:10:50 gko [~gko@110-26-71-208.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:13:18 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:20:44 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D444.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:27 can anyone help me with this http://paste.lisp.org/display/125106 02:22:39 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D484.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:23:06 Guest66850: What do you need help with? 02:23:39 well im trying to make it so when there are no odd numbers in a list it returns NONE instead of nil 02:24:07 erm 02:24:56 I'm really a beginniner 02:25:00 No worries :) 02:25:13 I'm not extremely familiar with CL, so give me a minute :) 02:25:29 Pretty sure I see your problem, but I want to be sure 02:25:46 thank you 02:26:09 (if (oddp x) x 'none) 02:26:14 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 02:26:18 Zhivago: You're not helping him. 02:26:35 *her 02:26:36 Why is that? 02:26:38 Or her. 02:27:12 You've just given her some code; great. Will she be able to recognize what's wrong in the future? 02:27:14 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:24 sonnym1 [~sonny@184.74.137.69] has joined #lisp 02:27:28 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:27:56 It depends on how stupid she is. 02:27:57 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@184.74.137.69] has quit [Client Quit] 02:28:08 No, not really. 02:28:16 Yes, really. 02:28:30 She can ask questions. 02:28:32 sonnym [~sonny@184.74.137.69] has joined #lisp 02:29:27 Shrug. Doesn't help her unless you actually help her understand what she's doing wrong, not just fix mistakes 02:29:43 Only she can do that. 02:29:46 Guest66850: What he said is correct, but do you see why? 02:30:07 At this point her code is gibberish, so a valid example is more useful than asking questions. 02:30:39 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:30:44 i thought I was on the right track, now I can see I was highly overcomplicating thingss 02:30:51 :) 02:31:05 I'm guessing that you've learned a different programming language before? 02:31:16 no 02:31:25 ah 02:32:28 and I thank you both! 02:32:44 but I have another question qhere I'm sure I'm also down the wrong road 02:32:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125108 02:33:08 Ok. 02:33:25 First thing, check your if syntax :) 02:34:22 ok i think its correct 02:35:17 Hint for debugging: run the body on a REPL 02:35:21 Do you have one in front of you? :) 02:35:47 umm I dont know what you mean 02:36:25 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has left #lisp 02:36:32 Are you running a Read-Eval-Print-Loop (REPL)? Usually you can get one by just running "sbcl" or whatever your flavor is 02:36:39 that way you can test things :) 02:36:50 yes 02:36:52 I am 02:36:55 ok 02:36:57 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:09 and the defun for smaller is right but trying to get minimum correct is fail 02:37:12 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 02:37:13 so put in the part of your "smaller" function that's the body -- that is, (if (< x y) x) 02:37:17 Guest: Where do you return y? 02:39:11 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-44c78c12.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:39:31 well you return y if its the smallest 02:41:08 -!- pmau5 [~patryk@141.212.182.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:41:21 Guest66850: when you make up two values for x and y, and run that if statement, what do you get? 02:42:56 Zhivago: if you really feel like writing people's code for them, go update CLAIM so that I can use it without having to update it :) 02:43:09 it says there is an unbound variable 02:43:15 for smaller 02:43:22 oladon: If you really feel like babbling moronically you can put a bucket on your head and hit it with a spoon. 02:43:40 -!- easyE` [BINEppryd3@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:43:56 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 02:44:16 Guest66850: not the whole function... just put in the if statement 02:44:29 (if (< 6 9) 6) 02:45:18 well if i use smaller with two numbers it returns the smallest without problem 02:45:45 Have you tried switching your arguments? :) 02:46:15 -!- MeanWeen [~MeanWeen@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:46:21 you mean putting x before smallerÉ 02:46:24 no 02:46:41 smaller is the function name, not an argument 02:46:46 the arguments are the numbers you're plugging in 02:47:42 it doesnt matter what order i put the numbers in, minimum still doesnt work 02:47:50 also first-odd is still returning nil 02:48:28 I'm talking about smaller, Guest66850 02:48:34 First things first 02:48:44 ok but what is wrong with my smaller 02:48:54 (smaller 3 4) <- what is the output? 02:48:56 Try (smaller 8 3) 02:49:00 (smaller 4 3) <- what is the output? 02:49:11 3 02:49:22 (if (< x y) x) === (if (< x y) x nil) 02:49:34 Did you change your function since you pasted it? 02:49:41 Guest: And the next one? 02:50:18 oh no what happened 02:50:22 it was working before 02:50:35 So, where do you return y? 02:51:01 of my bad 02:51:04 i put up the wrong one 02:51:11 heh 02:51:37 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125109 02:51:40 SORRY 02:51:59 ok, that's better 02:52:03 however 02:52:12 Look at your definition of smaller 02:52:15 and look at how you're calling it 02:52:22 Guest: Look up 'reduce'. 02:53:12 you have 2 errors in minimum; you're trying to call x as a function, and you're only giving 1 argument to smaller 02:53:28 and yes, reduce is what you want 02:53:48 it iterates over a list applying its values to an accumulator 02:53:54 one by one 02:53:58 but i have to use smaller 02:54:03 -!- drdo`` is now known as drdo 02:54:15 Use reduce with smaller. 02:54:35 minimum should contain a call to reduce which uses smaller 02:54:54 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.26.131.120.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 02:55:20 (reduce (function smaller) lst) 02:56:12 i cant use reduce 02:56:22 Well, you can't spell "can't" either, so ... 02:56:36 why not? 02:56:59 it's an assignment. I can only use do, and smaller once I defined it 02:57:22 do you understand what reduce does? then you can reimplement it 02:58:12 right but if i use other functions i'll lose marks 02:58:47 not that I see myself doing very well in the first place... 02:58:47 Well, you probably want to store the result of calling smaller somewhere ... 02:58:57 Or maybe do it recursively. 02:59:07 I'd go for recursion, myself. 02:59:33 -!- BrokenCog [~softserva@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [] 02:59:51 Guest66850: if you understand what reduce does, then you can reimplement it with just do or recursion 03:00:13 ah I see what you're saying 03:00:49 why does it say smaller is an unbound variable 03:01:08 you'd have to paste what it's saying 03:01:16 Probably because you're not using it as a function, which is what you defined it as. 03:01:59 ah 03:02:00 smaller is not a variable that has a value behind it. smaller names a function. There's a distinction in lisp 03:02:18 Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.25.6] has joined #lisp 03:02:32 (you could use both at the same time, but things can get unwieldy) 03:03:06 how do i use it as a function 03:03:12 to get minimum 03:03:22 like Zhivago said above, (function smaller), or #'smaller for shorthand 03:03:46 well, you'd only need that if you were to pass it into reduce or something 03:03:54 not sure what you're trying now 03:04:05 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.25.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:05:59 if i have a list and i want the smallest number, i guess i would have to go down the list using the smaller function to compare the numbers 03:06:58 yes, that is what reduce does, which you'll have to do manually using do or recursion 03:07:41 im trying to use do 03:14:54 yuvipanda [~yuvipanda@117.193.78.37] has joined #lisp 03:15:03 HOLA SOY UN GAY DE 28 AÑOS.....BUSCO UN NOVIO VARONIL Y ACTIVO ENTRE LAS EDADES DE 18 Y 32 AÑOS QUE SEA MUY VERGUDO Y NO OBVIO..... ESPERO QUE ALGUIEN AQUI ME PUEDA DAR UNA BUENA CULEADA ENVIAME UN MENSAJE PRIVADO SE TE INTERESA ESTO! 03:15:14 anyone wanna help me with this one since the other 2 have gone nowhere http://paste.lisp.org/display/125111 03:17:58 alright. well i'm gonna go take a shower but i'll be back. even though im sure youre quite sick of me 03:18:08 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@72.168.55.98] has left #lisp 03:28:29 frhodes [~user@168.103.97.250] has joined #lisp 03:28:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:29:53 Anyone happen to know if I'd need a Lisp webserver in order to run an SBCL script to receive HTML POST requests? 03:30:01 I'm guessing yes 03:30:43 Oladon: Probably the easiest solution. I'm guessing you mean HTTP POST requests, though. 03:31:09 Err, sorry, yeah. It's late 03:32:31 Oladon: Hunchentoot is probably what you want. It's popular, and if you're doing your own handling (rather than writing a Web app that you want a framework for), it's pretty easy. 03:32:34 Guest66850: I think add-to-list probably needs another parameter: the value to add. Plus, (+ x) just returns x 03:33:22 sellout-: Cool, thanks. I'm investigating IMified, since CLAIM didn't work out 03:33:24 HOLA SOY UN GAY DE 28 AÑOS.....BUSCO UN NOVIO VARONIL Y ACTIVO ENTRE LAS EDADES DE 18 Y 32 AÑOS QUE SEA MUY VERGUDO Y NO OBVIO..... ESPERO QUE ALGUIEN AQUI ME PUEDA DAR UNA BUENA CULEADA ENVIAME UN MENSAJE PRIVADO SE TE INTERESA ESTO! 03:33:25 HOLA SOY UN GAY DE 28 AÑOS.....BUSCO UN NOVIO VARONIL Y ACTIVO ENTRE LAS EDADES DE 18 Y 32 AÑOS QUE SEA MUY VERGUDO Y NO OBVIO..... ESPERO QUE ALGUIEN AQUI ME PUEDA DAR UNA BUENA CULEADA ENVIAME UN MENSAJE PRIVADO SE TE INTERESA ESTO! 03:33:27 HOLA SOY UN GAY DE 28 AÑOS.....BUSCO UN NOVIO VARONIL Y ACTIVO ENTRE LAS EDADES DE 18 Y 32 AÑOS QUE SEA MUY VERGUDO Y NO OBVIO..... ESPERO QUE ALGUIEN AQUI ME PUEDA DAR UNA BUENA CULEADA ENVIAME UN MENSAJE PRIVADO SE TE INTERESA ESTO! 03:35:13 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 03:35:27 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q JuleKagge!*@* 03:35:32 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 03:48:52 evan_ [~evan@adsl-70-238-174-213.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:11 -!- fluffycms [~cms@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:50:09 So I'm trying to quickload Hunchentoot, and getting: Unable to load any of the alternatives: ("libssl.so.0.9.8" "libssl.so" "libssl.so.4")... I've Googled, but the solution given (installing openssl-devel and openssl098e) didn't work. 03:50:10 Any ideas? 03:50:41 Oladon: does it propose restarts? something like "ACCEPT" will do 03:51:05 Oladon: that is, you won't have SSL, but other things will work 03:51:12 Ah, okay, excellent :) 03:51:13 Thanks 03:51:34 I had tried the "use-value", but still couldn't get it to load that library 03:51:52 -!- JuleKagge [~RLopez813@2001:470:1f09:7f8::15] has left #lisp 03:51:52 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B3263DA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:07 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 03:53:23 -!- yuvipanda [~yuvipanda@117.193.78.37] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:53:54 Oladon: USE-VALUE asks for library location, but you must enter its name as a list, like: ("/usr/lib/libssl.so.0.9.8") 03:53:59 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 03:54:23 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326461.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:54:26 Hmm... I'd entered '/usr/lib/libssl.so 03:54:34 Which it didn't complain about, just didn't work 03:56:25 anyway, it's better to start without SSL (by choosing ACCEPT), and maybe get it right when it's needed 03:56:47 nods 03:58:15 btw, for multilib (64+32-bit) systems it's important to load the library for the same "subarchitecture" (if your SBCL is x86-64, then you may need something like (on my machine) /usr/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libssl.so.1.0.0) 03:59:04 hmm, ok 03:59:15 (on my system, even openssl *versions* are different for 64-bit and 32-bit world, as I just noticed) 04:01:11 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.75.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:32 interesting 04:02:14 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.78.207] has joined #lisp 04:03:36 Hmm... I'm seeing how to use Apache & Hunchentoot to serve different sites, but what about different portions of the same site? 04:03:45 not finding anything via teh google 04:05:05 paul0 [~paul0@189.26.131.120.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 04:07:14 Presumably you would use apache to serve the site, proxying to hunchentoot where appropriate. 04:08:28 ProxyPass directive of mod_proxy 04:08:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:08:49 *Oladon* looks it up 04:12:37 -!- Guest66850 [~stella@bas2-montreal42-3096488197.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:17:49 -!- Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:17:55 Borbus [borbus@85.17.58.106] has joined #lisp 04:19:05 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:15 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.26.131.120.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 04:25:19 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.153.241] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:26:44 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA20230.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:26:53 Oladon: you can compile hunchentoot without SSL support. 04:27:10 restart your lisp and do (push :hunchentoot-no-ssl *features*) 04:27:16 *slyrus* finally got around to using ngninx and hunchentoot 04:28:04 hmm 04:28:21 sykopomp: ah, thanks. Already accepted, and now on to other issues 04:28:29 like the connection timing out when trying to access it :P 04:28:57 what platform are you on? Ubanto? 04:30:52 Fedora, I believe. It's EC2 04:33:31 -!- evan_ [~evan@adsl-70-238-174-213.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 04:34:56 meh, I may have to give up and use Perl. 04:35:04 really wanted to do this in Lisp though 04:35:36 how do you start hunchentoot? 04:36:07 * (hunchentoot:start (make-instance 'hunchentoot:acceptor :port 4242)) 04:36:27 netstat -anl | grep 4242 04:36:33 (from root) 04:36:44 tcp 0 0 0.0.0.0:4242 0.0.0.0:* LISTEN 04:36:47 *not necessary from root 04:36:57 then (sb-thread:list-all-threads) 04:37:15 (# 04:37:15 #) 04:37:55 and how do you test it? (directly or thru mod_proxy? curl, wget, or browser?) 04:38:33 browser -- I've set up mod_proxy (I think)... based on the proxy section at http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ 04:38:51 combined with some at http://confluence.atlassian.com/display/DOC/Using+Apache+with+mod_proxy#UsingApachewithmodproxy-Configuremodproxy 04:39:20 what if you try curl localhost:4242 directly, for starters? 04:39:26 hmm, interesting -- when I curl directly it works 04:39:40 well, then you can give up apache and use perl :) 04:39:47 heh 04:39:51 firewall? 04:39:56 stella [~stella@bas2-montreal42-3096486256.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:40:21 -!- stella is now known as Guest35262 04:40:25 hello i need help with this http://paste.lisp.org/display/125111 04:40:57 I think we can open that port, if that's all I need 04:41:14 Oladon: is apache running on the same machine? If yes, how do you specify target for mod_proxy -- as 127.0.0.1 ? other IP? 04:42:01 akovalenko: Yeah, it's running on the same machine. When I curl localhost, it returns the Apache-served page, and when I curl localhost:4242 it returns the Hutchentoot 04:42:04 so it seems like it's working 04:42:15 and yes, I specify it as 127.0.0.1 04:42:49 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770DE3.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:42:57 Oladon: 127.0.0.1 is not normally protected "from itself" by any reasonable firewall setup (and mod_proxy should be able to access it, if it works for cul) 04:43:00 *curl 04:43:07 hmm 04:43:12 then maybe I've set up mod_proxy incorrectly 04:44:08 -!- Zulu [~Zulu@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 04:44:23 show your config? (not that I'm apache expert or something, but it may be possible to spot some errors) 04:44:27 anyone? 04:44:48 ProxyPreserveHost On 04:44:48 04:44:48 Order deny,allow 04:44:48 # Deny from all 04:44:48 Allow from all 04:44:48 04:44:49 ProxyPass /htoot http://127.0.0.1:4242/htoot 04:44:49 ProxyPassReverse /htoot http://127.0.0.1:4242/htoot 04:44:50 04:44:50 Order allow,deny 04:44:51 Allow from all 04:44:51 04:44:53 that's in httpd.conf 04:49:01 Ohhh I'm dork 04:49:03 a* 04:49:26 are there proxy_http module? 04:49:45 Yeah. I was just manually directing it to :4242, which is wrong 04:50:03 A noisy dork. 04:50:20 heh, your config works for me 04:50:24 Now I just have to figure out why the test isn't working 04:50:26 Yeah, it works 04:50:36 -!- frhodes [~user@168.103.97.250] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:51:12 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:51:50 Oladon: it's somewhat better to (defparameter *hunch* (make-instance ...)), btw -- then it's possible to stop hunchentoot later 04:52:08 evan_ [~evan@adsl-70-238-174-213.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:52:09 (then (hunchentoot:start *hunch*)) 04:52:41 why is lisp so hard 04:53:22 akovalenko: ahh, good call 04:55:33 Guest66850: I think add-to-list probably needs another parameter: the value to add. Plus, (+ x) just returns x 04:55:38 (my comment from above) 04:55:54 akovalenko: How do I set "name" in the http://weitz.de/hunchentoot/ say-yo example? 04:56:01 oh, nm, doh 04:56:20 lisp is very consistent; you just need to learn the rules 04:56:26 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 04:56:54 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:57:23 It's like the rules are in another language 04:58:00 not really. Take the + usage, for example 04:58:06 it adds together all its parameters 04:58:34 that's a pretty simple rule 04:58:37 I want to add a number to each number on a list 04:58:50 right, and where does that number come from? 04:59:09 (btw, your conceptual disconnect isn't lisp-specific, this is general programming issues) 04:59:16 well its a variable so you can choose whatever one you like 04:59:29 where does it get set? 05:00:02 on each number on a list 05:00:25 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:00:27 I mean the number that you want to add to each element of the list. Where is the variable that holds that? 05:00:56 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 05:01:18 before the list is written 05:01:38 your function doesn't access any external special variables 05:02:01 it's self-contained with a single parameter, the input list 05:02:41 so you either need another parameter for the delta, or a (defvar *my-delta-for-add-to-list* ...) etc 05:03:20 yes this is where im struggling because no mapcar lambda examples i've seen so far use external variables 05:03:21 -!- Kron_ [~Kron@69.166.25.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:04:10 You probably want the first option, another parameter for add-to-list. 05:04:21 You have a list, and you want to add something to each element. That's two parameters. 05:04:54 so have (defun add-to-list (x lst) 05:05:18 right, and the inner lambda can access x just fine 05:05:47 You'd need to change the parameter name for the lambda, of course. 05:05:49 (defun foo (a b list) (mapcar (lambda (x) (something-with x a b)) list) 05:06:05 -!- blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:06:11 the lambda sees the lexical scope around it 05:06:21 the lambda _body_ sees the lexical scope around the lambda 05:07:17 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 05:07:27 ok 05:08:46 blumbri [~user@67.181.176.186] has joined #lisp 05:09:34 im still confused 05:11:00 anything code within the defun can see the parameters of the defun 05:11:09 regardless of if its nested inside other lambdas 05:11:33 so the body of your mapcar lambda can see an 'x' parameter given to the defun 05:11:48 even though that lambda takes only 1 parameter; the next item in the list 05:12:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:12:59 so if i have (mapcar '(lambda (x) (+ x) lst)) that's close? 05:13:07 what is (+ x) supposed to do? 05:13:12 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 05:13:18 #'+ adds all its parameters together 05:13:43 well i want to add the variable to each number 05:16:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:16:11 but you left the variable out of your addition. put it in 05:17:14 there's also the issue of that QUOTE. 05:17:26 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:44 so it should be (+x lst) 05:18:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:08 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:18:21 +x is not a function. 05:18:36 and lst is a list, you can't add numbers to lists like that. 05:18:41 Guest35262: are you reading a book right now?... 05:18:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:07 let's simplify it. what if you had to add, not "some number", but 17 to each element?.. 05:19:39 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:19:43 no im not reading a book 05:20:15 it would be + 17 to each variable? 05:20:46 Guest35262: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ This is a fine book that should make Lisp feel a lot easier for you and get you going on the basics. 05:21:18 Guest35262: http://gigamonkeys.com/book is worth reading right after you're done with Gentle Intro, and will take you more in-depth into CL and its features. 05:21:23 omg I've been slaving over that forever 05:21:25 (+ x lst), the space is important 05:21:33 both books are freely available. 05:21:42 (assuming that 'lst' doesn't hold a list, but a number) 05:22:17 i read the books, did elm-art tutor. still failed my test 05:22:24 now about to fail this assignment 05:23:05 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:25:27 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:25:34 Guest35262: what would the mapcar look like if you were adding 17 to each element? 05:25:57 I mean, that's easy enough to write & test interactively with (mapcar (lambda ....) '(1 2 3 4 5)) 05:26:51 (mapcar (lambda (x) (+ 17)) '(1 2 3 4 5) ? 05:26:59 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-fszvcdpdkygpcfdj] has joined #lisp 05:27:19 (+ 17) always returns 17 05:27:21 (+ 17) means "add 17 to nothing" 05:27:26 I don't think you understand the + operator 05:27:29 play with it on the repl 05:27:31 And really, just try it and see it not work. 05:27:43 yes, these are short enough and don't rely on anything to run independently 05:27:59 (mapcar (lambda (x) (+ 17 x)) '(1 2 3 4 5) 05:28:11 Guest35262: what does that do when you try it in the repl? 05:28:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:29:06 well that seems to work now i added the x 05:29:44 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:29:52 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:29:55 (defun add-17-to-12345 () Guest35262: do you know why that works? 05:30:28 (defun add-17-to-list (list) (mapcar )) 05:31:13 because it's adding 17 to a variable instead of nothing 05:31:14 (defun add-something-to-list (something list) (mapcar ) 05:31:52 Guest35262: not "a variable", do you understand what chains where and why the result is what it is? 05:32:18 i should have filled it? 05:32:42 no i dont know what a chain is 05:33:09 I don't know what a chain is, either. 05:33:26 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:33:37 and I thought x was a variable in that example. 05:34:19 chain of events 05:34:50 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:35:30 anyway, you got it working with 17, so you should be able to add a variable delta instead of that constant 17 delta 05:36:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:36:27 i should... 05:36:39 Guest35262: go through all three steps I mentioned above. First, make it work for a known number and known (literal) list, with no incoming parameters. Then, make it work with a known number and a list _argument_. Then make it work with both number and a list passed as arguments. 05:36:40 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 05:37:09 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 05:37:49 how would you call the function not knowing the parameter or list 05:38:10 in your outer defun add-to-list, the parameter & list are held in variables 05:38:18 (defun add-to-list (delta list) ...) 05:38:27 anywhere inside that defun, you have access to delta 05:38:42 so yes, the inner lambda "knows" the delta variable, even if it's not its own parameter 05:39:16 so x is delta and lst is lst 05:41:03 why not use the variable name "delta"? 05:41:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:41:26 make it easier for yourself to read, too ;) 05:41:33 cyrillos__ [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has joined #lisp 05:41:37 lesigh 05:41:43 ok 05:41:45 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:41:54 especially when you're throwing around intermediate & temporary variables while confused, having good naming helps a ton 05:42:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:42:57 (mapcar (lambda (delta lst) (+ delta lst)) lst) 05:43:11 what does mapcar do? outline it to me in detail 05:43:28 Phoodus: rtfm 05:43:44 zvrba: _I_ know what it does. Guest35262 needs to learn it 05:43:45 *zvrba* hides :p 05:43:55 Phoodus: sorry, too little coffee :( 05:44:27 Phoodus: there's a guy on ##c asking why he needs to use strcpy instead of p = "blah"; 05:44:38 it takes whatever element i guess you have and passes it down the list 05:44:55 Phoodus: so I answered with "get a book" 05:45:54 zvrba: but this one needs his homework done for him. 05:46:11 sykopomp: heh. 05:46:25 ziprar [~hi@unaffiliated/zipace] has joined #lisp 05:46:30 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 05:46:31 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:46:44 sykopomp: send him to rentacoder.com? 05:46:53 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 05:46:59 Guest35262: no. mapcar takes each element from the given list, passes it to the lambda (hence the lambda must be 1 parameter), and forms a resulting list from the lambda return values 05:47:38 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:47:40 iow, it passes each individual list element to the lambda, and returns the corresponding return value in that location in the return list 05:47:45 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Client Quit] 05:48:09 What guest wanted to do would make sense in a language with automatic currying. 05:48:15 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 05:48:23 CL doesn't support it, so you need to do that manually using lambda, etc. 05:48:24 or a language with alexandria:curry 05:48:35 (mapcar (curry '+ 17) '(1 2 3 4 5)) 05:48:41 Not automatic. 05:48:49 oh no, what shall become of me. 05:49:03 You will die. 05:49:05 i dont know what currying is 05:49:05 I'll switch to Haskell right away. This is unacceptable. 05:49:47 Guest35262: well, what you need to know is that curry does not curry. 05:49:51 Automatic currying is problematic with variadic expressions anyhow -- but it would have fit guest's intuition better. 05:50:34 KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 05:51:17 Guest31252: currying is just a tangent that sort of looks like what you were trying to do 05:52:12 but the lambda takes a list element, and returns the new list element 05:52:20 (lambda (x) (+ x)) just returns the same number unchanged 05:52:37 so if you have that in mapcar, you'll get a copy of the same values 05:52:44 but what about (mapcar (lambda (delta lst) (+ delta lst)) lst) 05:52:45 you understand why now? 05:53:01 when mapcar calls the lambda, it calls it with one parameter; the next element of lst 05:53:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:53:05 so tha would crash 05:53:27 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:53:52 so how does the list play into this now that its not defined 05:54:00 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:54:08 the list is held in lst; there's nothing undefined there 05:54:29 well, you're reusing variable names inside the lambda parameters, which is weird 05:54:45 why 05:55:32 because now you have 2 separate variables, both called "lst" 05:55:55 when you do (lambda (x y) ...) you're creating 2 new variables, x and y, even if previous variables of those names also existed outside 05:56:13 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56:48 so one of the lst i have is actually different from the others. im guessing the last one? 05:57:13 yes, inside your lambda of 2 parameters, you make a new parameter called lst 05:57:22 (even though mapcar only validly takes lambdas of 1 parameter) 05:57:28 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:57:56 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:58:06 so if i renamed the last lst to x would that make more sense 05:58:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:49 you cannot pass a lambda of 2 parameters into mapcar 05:58:51 it will crash 05:58:52 Guest35262: you already have x, do you? Then you will have two unrelated Xs -- is it better? 05:58:59 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 05:59:18 no this is what i have (mapcar (lambda (delta lst) (+ delta lst)) x) 05:59:22 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDDF62.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:00:16 Guest35262: (mapcar ) 06:01:32 (mapcar ) 06:02:01 you don't need to pass the delta into the inner lambda; if it's all inside a defun that knows the delta, it can just use it directly 06:02:38 again from way above: (defun foo (a b list) (mapcar (lambda (x) (something-with x a b)) list) 06:02:39 so this is better (mapcar (lambda (lst) (+ delta lst)) x) 06:02:50 note I didn't pass a and b into the delta; it can already see them 06:02:56 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:03:02 not better, it's the only thing that will work ;) 06:03:16 (but you're using different variable names now, so make sure you align those) 06:03:40 let's compare: (mapcar ) and (mapcar (lambda (lst) (+ delta lst)) x). Then, x is some list... looks wrong. 06:03:51 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:04:04 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:04:21 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 06:04:55 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 06:05:15 remember what the lambda does, and what the lambda parameter is. The name 'lst' does not match with what that is 06:05:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:05:29 so to call it how would i write it? (add-to-list delta lst) but with actual numbers? 06:05:43 yes 06:05:55 (add-to-list 15 '(1 2 3 4 5)) -> (16 17 18 19 20) 06:06:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 06:06:53 it says im attempting to take the car of 1. type-error 06:07:49 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:57 the car of 15 i mean 06:08:07 mapcar takes the car of things as it traverses the list 06:08:13 gavinharper [~gavinharp@82.128.190.151] has joined #lisp 06:08:18 because you renamed your variables, that probably broke your code 06:08:30 check to see that the proper values chain together properly (hah, there's that word again :-P) 06:08:35 Or you gave the parameters in the long order, maybe 06:08:40 wrong 06:09:16 OMG IT WORKED!!!!!!! 06:09:24 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.208.219.19] has joined #lisp 06:09:49 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:10:57 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:11:03 wow thats awesome 06:14:58 gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.190.136] has joined #lisp 06:15:42 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:59 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:16:02 can you help me figure out what's bugging with this one http://paste.lisp.org/display/125115 06:16:35 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:16:39 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:17:21 do or dolist? (either one is useful, but haven't we already started with dolist earlier?) 06:17:39 do 06:18:32 do puts its return value after the end-test, it's not the return value of the body. I think you're missing some setup forms inside the do 06:19:04 i am missing return youre right 06:19:09 but how does that fit into if 06:20:17 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.125.50] has joined #lisp 06:20:27 you need to exit when you're done with parsing the list, or when you hit the first odd number 06:20:45 so your test & return value can be one of two cases 06:21:44 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:22:09 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-123-164.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:22:09 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 06:22:20 so im able to get oddp no problem 06:22:37 (do (( )) ( ) ) 06:23:10 so i should have two if statements in the body? 06:23:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:23:21 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:23:22 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.125.50] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:24:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:24:45 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:25:32 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 06:25:40 What if we start with (do ((tail lst (rest tail))) ((null tail)) (print (first tail))) ;;; what do we see? 06:27:22 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.68.211] has joined #lisp 06:27:46 i dont know 06:28:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:28:54 http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJF/1 06:28:54 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:29:26 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:29:47 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.214.74] has joined #lisp 06:29:56 Guest35262: you have some Lisp handy, don't you? 06:30:23 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:30:58 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@82.128.190.151] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 06:31:04 lisp handy? 06:31:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-132-17.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:31:12 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 06:31:40 Guest35262: how did you test the previous exercise? 06:31:58 oh im using allegro cl 06:32:43 well then, there is some code to start with: http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJF/1 06:33:31 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:34:00 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:34:22 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:30 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:34:50 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-140-75.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 06:34:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:34:55 ok using first and rest in this context. im also not exactly sure what it means 06:35:17 try: (first '(1 2 3 4 5)) 06:35:20 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:28 then try: (rest '(1 2 3 4 5)) 06:35:49 yes i know those 06:36:00 (it's probably better to keep your Allegro CL running while we discuss it) 06:36:27 now, what's going on in our DO form from example-1... 06:37:02 well first you have rest tail and null tail 06:37:03 First, there is a (local) variable named TAIL 06:37:12 to mean only first is left? 06:37:43 or is it the first of the rest 06:37:47 In the beginning, TAIL gets the value of LST (for example, (1 2 3 4 5)..) 06:38:07 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.214.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:38:08 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 06:38:28 ok and then you have rest 06:38:35 consequently, (FIRST TAIL) is 1 at this moment, and (REST TAIL) is (2 3 4 5) 06:39:02 but what is null tail? nothing? 06:39:29 NULL is the test for empty list (a.k.a "nothing", NIL, ()) 06:39:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:39:44 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:40:04 so because the list isnt empty you keep going 06:40:11 good morning 06:40:18 -!- vilikki [viileppi@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-aufsfthskvxhthth] has left #lisp 06:40:28 yep. (REST TAIL) form will be used to assign TAIL a new value for the next step: 06:40:47 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:40:53 We start with TAIL (1 2 3 4 5), then it becomes (2 3 4 5), then (3 4 5),... 06:41:29 so how does print play into this 06:42:28 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:43:03 (PRINT (FIRST TAIL)) will print something on each step. Which something? First, it will be like (FIRST '(1 2 3 4 5)), that is, 1. Then it will be (FIRST '(2 3 4 5)), that is, 2... 06:43:22 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:43:48 so print will print 1 2 3 4 and 5 on separate lines 06:43:57 yep. 06:43:57 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 06:44:19 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:00 Before each print, (NULL TAIL) is checked: if it's true (that is, our tail is empty), there is nothing more to do. 06:45:00 and it couldnt do this without rest first because it would print them all on the same line? 06:45:28 wrong. 06:45:44 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.87.27.83] has joined #lisp 06:46:11 why is rest needed 06:46:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:46:42 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:47:39 we have to say two things about LST: (1) what is its initial value? (2) how it changes on each step (except the first one)? 06:47:55 (3) it's not the best name 06:48:40 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66.87.27.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:49:13 so in my first-odd function i need to use rest to evaluate the list 06:49:17 We answer the second question in the following way: "new" TAIL is always the REST of "old" TAIL 06:50:16 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:25 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 06:51:31 "Evaluate" is a wrong word here. When we do something to each element of the list, we _traverse_ that list. 06:51:36 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 06:52:38 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:52:58 ok 06:53:14 (almost every single "common" programming term has a very specific meaning in lisp :-P) 06:53:28 Now, http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJF/3 06:54:27 i didnt 06:54:33 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 06:55:45 In what way is EXAMPLE-2 different? Well, we added another PRINT (so we can see how TAIL changes over time, not only how (FIRST TAIL) changes)... 06:56:49 *akovalenko* missed closing parenthesis after DEFUN in that annotation 06:56:53 ok so tail would be the list 06:57:43 no 06:57:58 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:58:07 there was a typo. Corrected at http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJF/4 06:58:42 Guest35262: tail would (always) be _some_ list 06:59:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 06:59:03 not really 06:59:17 given a proper list, the tail is always a list, including the empty list nil 07:00:28 Guest35262: now, what's another important difference? We added the test 07:00:30 hmm 07:00:44 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:32 varjag [~eugene@62.97.226.122] has joined #lisp 07:01:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-140-75.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:01:50 ...for odd elements. If we encounter such an element, all further elements are unimportant to us... 07:02:23 nostoi [~nostoi@219.Red-79-154-22.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:33 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.29.100] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 07:02:42 so print is a test function 07:03:13 No, PRINT only helps us to see what's going on 07:03:29 ODDP is what we use to decide if we should return early. 07:03:50 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:04:40 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:04:53 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:05:04 ok but i still am not sure how to solve the none problem 07:05:05 What if we remove all two PRINT's? Then our function would be silent: instead of showing us TAIL and (FIRST TAIL) while it's running, it would only return some final result... 07:05:11 marsell [~marsell@120.20.225.165] has joined #lisp 07:06:02 Guest35262: Now we're almost done, except the NONE problem.. 07:06:33 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:06:38 Let's look at http://l1sp.org/cl/do 07:07:01 ok 07:07:24 Let's focus on ..(end-test-form result-form*) part of the DO syntax.. 07:08:15 Why end-test? We can't return NONE before the whole list is traversed, that is, before we have no tail. 07:08:58 that makes sense 07:09:14 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:09:47 When there is no tail, our end-test-form, (NULL TAIL), finally becomes true. 07:10:02 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:10:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:21 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:10:23 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:10:37 so why is that good to have an empty list 07:11:14 ..If we get to (NULL TAIL) at all, it means there were no odd elements encountered (otherwise we'd have returned earlier) 07:11:53 true. so that means if we get null tail none should be returned 07:12:29 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:12:30 Yep.Now let's see: 07:12:30 (end-test-form result-form*) 07:12:30 ((null tail) ....) 07:13:14 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-82-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:13:14 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-82-141.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:13:14 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:13:53 return none 07:14:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:15:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:15:25 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:16:13 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:16:13 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:16:17 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 07:17:46 no im wrong 07:20:08 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:20:58 HG` [~HG@p5DC055EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:21:03 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:21:03 and alone... 07:21:33 Not alone. Let's try to get it right, still. 07:22:35 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:22:38 We needed RETURN elsewhere, because we wanted to return *early* -- before (NULL TAIL) came true. 07:23:05 a return after rest tail? 07:23:25 good morning everyone 07:24:01 Guest35262: yes, that one (it happens WHEN we see something ODD) 07:25:17 marsell_ [~marsell@120.22.186.168] has joined #lisp 07:25:36 Now, we only want some result-form that always evaluates to NONE (note the word "evaluates") 07:25:45 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:25:53 We know full well that 12 evaluates to 12... 07:26:02 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:26:08 And "Hi there" evaluates to "Hi there" 07:26:38 But NONE doesn't evaluate to NONE. Why? 07:26:59 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:27:09 Because NONE is a symbol? 07:27:14 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/03_aba.htm 07:27:24 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.225.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:27:24 -!- marsell_ is now known as marsell 07:27:31 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:27:35 because theres nothing to evaluate so it would be nil? 07:27:39 And symbols evaluate to their values in the environment? 07:27:49 No. It would be unbound in that case. 07:27:54 nil is something. 07:27:55 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:05 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:28:12 You probably want 'NONE. 07:28:24 The quote will cause it to evaluate to NONE. 07:28:32 yes 07:28:34 You can also use '"Hi there" if you like. 07:29:06 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:29:07 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:09 Zhivago: it's a homework, requirements are immutable. 07:29:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:29:20 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:29:22 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 07:29:54 aerique [310225@194.109.21.8] has joined #lisp 07:30:05 And what is the requirement? 07:30:15 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:30:27 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:30:34 so i tried inserting return again and it didnt work 07:31:13 Yeah. Inserting things randomly usually doesn't work well. 07:31:29 You can always set the value of NONE to NONE ... 07:31:30 I think we discussed why and how RETURN is unnecesary, just a few minutes ago. 07:32:17 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:32:22 hmm ok i misunderstood that 07:32:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:33:10 We just want a result-form (as in http://l1sp.org/cl/do ) that always evaluates to NONE. This form should be right after our end-test, which is (NULL TAIL). 07:34:31 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.54.133] has joined #lisp 07:35:04 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.74.66] has joined #lisp 07:35:09 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@122.169.74.66] has quit [Changing host] 07:35:09 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 07:35:40 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:03 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp3741.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:36:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-75-108.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:36:44 ok im not understanding how to do this 07:37:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:37:53 Guest35262: show me a form that always evaluates to 7. 07:38:46 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:39:09 We want ((null tail) ) 07:39:30 would it just be putting a quote in front 07:39:39 of none or 7 07:40:29 I hoped you'll continue to *try* your ideas... 07:41:37 i try and try 07:43:05 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:43:07 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:46 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:44:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:45:07 Guest35262: well, did you try "putting a quote in front"? What is the result? If it doesn't work, what is the error message? And what is your current code (modified according to your idea)? You may paste it again.. 07:47:09 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 07:47:10 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:47:13 annotate the original paste, that is 07:47:57 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 07:48:18 -!- blumbri [~user@67.181.176.186] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:11 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:49:52 i think im not putting it in the right place or screwing the parentheses because nothing is happenin 07:49:55 eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has joined #lisp 07:50:08 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has quit [Changing host] 07:50:08 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 07:50:16 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:51:50 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 07:53:27 Probably reflects a fundamental lack of grasp on the basics. 07:53:39 Have you tried reading a lisp book? 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Slimv 0.9.0 released! 08:31:05 calliostro [~user@static-82-85-85-33.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 08:31:20 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@91.77.190.136] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:32:15 -!- Blkt` [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 08:32:26 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:32:47 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:33:29 -!- Guest67119 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:33:38 Blkt [~user@89.96.199.46] has joined #lisp 08:33:43 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:35:48 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:37:09 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 08:37:11 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:37:21 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 08:40:57 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:41:30 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 08:41:57 hi Blkt 08:43:02 -!- evan_ [~evan@adsl-70-238-174-213.dsl.stlsmo.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:08 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cczudlkpcpzclhic] has joined #lisp 08:44:12 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:13 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 08:44:13 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 08:48:23 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:49:10 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:49:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 08:49:19 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 08:50:36 fluffycms [~cmsimon@50.43.53.7] has joined #lisp 08:51:39 Guest31252: have a look at http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJF/5 08:53:15 pjb: why not just (or (find-if ...) 'none)? 08:53:43 jdz: yes, just pasted. The idea of /5 is that it's a direct translation in lisp of the English specification. 08:54:33 in anycase, both /5 and /6 are O(n) :-) 08:55:32 pjb: yeah, but sometimes the constant factors matter :) 08:55:58 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 08:56:05 hi fe[nl]ix 08:57:27 Guest31252: here is the solution to my puzzle of yesterday: http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJF/7 08:58:02 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:58:09 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 08:59:07 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:00:14 ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:02:29 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:03:51 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 09:04:15 -!- xristos is now known as Guest86007 09:06:33 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:59 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:08:44 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:09:33 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:14 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:43 Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.49.89] has joined #lisp 09:15:21 anyone familiar with closure-html? 09:15:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:15:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:15:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:16:03 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:16:18 I'm looking at the api examples, and I get an unbound symbol: stp:do-recursively 09:16:20 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:16:34 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:15 Shaftoe_: on what page do you see the example? 09:17:28 does anyone http://www.common-lisp.net/project/closure/closure-html/examples.html#id54525 09:18:13 -!- Guest35673 [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:18:32 I'm just trying to see if the closure-common and closure-html libraries have a way of iterating. 09:18:40 (without my having to also load cxml) 09:18:44 Shaftoe_: did you load cxml-stp, too? 09:18:59 no, not if I don't have to. you saying I do? 09:19:14 Shaftoe_: yes. it is easy if you use quicklisp 09:19:17 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:27 Guest35673 [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 09:19:42 Shaftoe_: in fact, i have just loaded closure-html, drakma and cxml-stp through quicklisp, pasted the example to my repl and it worked. 09:19:45 alright. so you're confirming that closure-html does not have an iteration macro? 09:19:51 ok. 09:20:08 Shaftoe_: closure-html is a cxml add-on 09:20:16 I see. 09:20:18 ok. 09:20:20 thanks 09:20:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:20:55 Shaftoe_: what makes you want to avoid loading cxml in the first place? 09:21:31 my ocd nature: I started out with a very simple need, and I've now installed 5 new libraries 09:21:40 I always want to avoid doing that. 09:21:53 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:01 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:22:01 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:22:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:22:26 Shaftoe_: i think it would be best if you lost that habit. you'll have to load several libraries if you want to get anything done with common lisp 09:24:05 Shaftoe_: fortunately, loading libraries is very easy with quicklisp, so there is no need to be concerned, really. 09:24:48 it's a matter of principle. I'm not saying I'm not going to expand my library base. But I believe firmly that a good coder has to have a reluctance to do that. 09:24:52 otherwise, .NET happens. 09:25:34 -!- Guest35673 is now known as X-Scale 09:26:35 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:26:49 Shaftoe_: whatever. if you are going to bemoan every single library that you're loading, this channel will be falling into a bad mood. 09:27:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:27:44 I'm not bemoaning. I think you're interpreting my queries the wrong way. You gave me two alternatives yesterday, and I'm actually following one of them to the full extent. I came here to ask if I needed to load the full dependency tree or not. 09:28:03 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 09:28:24 Anyhow, thank you for the help you've provided. It's very useful. 09:28:30 Shaftoe_: yes. look at the .asd file of closure-html to see what it depends on. check what the dependencies depend on. 09:29:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:30:55 patamont [9584bc9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.132.188.154] has joined #lisp 09:31:09 -!- patamont [9584bc9a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.149.132.188.154] has left #lisp 09:31:29 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-83.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:32:07 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:32:57 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.54.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:33:16 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 09:34:40 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bngrnmwadbjwyscj] has joined #lisp 09:36:47 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:37:30 -!- calliostro [~user@static-82-85-85-33.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:37:39 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:40:34 akovalen` [~user@95.73.107.178] has joined #lisp 09:41:04 -!- drdo [~drdo@147.143.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:42:07 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.223.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:42:31 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:43:33 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:33 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:43:33 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:43:44 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-21-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:47 if a character is listed as 'reserved to the user' in http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dh.htm, does that mean it would be considered impolite for a library to use it? 09:46:13 -!- ziprar [~hi@unaffiliated/zipace] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:47:00 df_aldur: i don't think so. they are not used by any implementation, so a library is free to use them. 09:47:10 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-21-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:54 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 09:48:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:49:16 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:49:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 09:49:27 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:47 ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has joined #lisp 09:49:48 H4ns: thanks 09:51:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:54:22 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 09:54:23 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit 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#lisp 10:00:03 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:00:50 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 10:01:42 hi 10:02:41 -!- troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:02:48 hi Posterdati 10:03:51 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-21-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:04:32 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-21-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 10:05:09 -!- fluffycms [~cmsimon@50.43.53.7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:06:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:07:09 eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has joined #lisp 10:07:09 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has quit [Changing host] 10:07:09 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 10:07:25 fe[nl]ix: do you know if Checkpoint abra key could be used with a linux host? 10:08:39 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-21-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:08:46 what ? 10:08:59 a vpn encryption key 10:09:16 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 10:09:34 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.226] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:10:11 I don't know what you're talking about 10:10:28 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 10:10:36 fluffycms [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:39 -!- Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.49.89] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 10:10:42 fe[nl]ix: ok 10:11:43 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.180.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:12:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:12:54 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-21-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:06 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-21-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 10:13:29 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 10:13:44 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 10:13:56 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-21-151.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 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[~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:10:34 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:10:34 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:10:34 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:13:45 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 11:14:33 -!- ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:16:03 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:16:28 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:18:02 Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.49.89] has joined #lisp 11:18:35 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:18:46 does quicklisp put its installed libraries in sbcl/site or its own dir? 11:18:59 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:19:12 Shaftoe_: in its own 11:19:23 is it possible to make it go in site ? 11:19:28 or at the very least, manually copy to site? 11:20:44 -!- retupmoca [~andy@173-167-0-86-michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:21:18 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:21:52 Shaftoe_: at this point, it is best to leave quicklisp's own directory structure alone. you can copy the libraries that you've installed with quicklisp to whatever place you like, but you'll then have to point your asdf:*central-registry* at those directories 11:22:05 retupmoca [~andy@173-167-0-86-michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:08 -!- H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has quit [Quit: bye] 11:26:31 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:27:01 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:27:30 I can't see it in the faq: does quicklisp have a system wide versus user specific install mode? 11:28:54 ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:45 System-wide would mean root... 11:29:58 Shaftoe_: IIRC you can just move the quicklisp-directory to where you want it ... if the global or per-user rc loads quicklisp you're fine to go 11:30:19 (although normal users might not have rights in the global directory, so won't be able to fetch new systems) 11:31:21 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 11:31:33 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 11:31:45 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:31:53 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 11:32:03 -!- xristos is now known as Guest4003 11:32:25 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:32:42 I'm trying to figure out how one integrates ql in a production environment. As I understand it, ql is the equivalent of apt-get or what not. Normally, this type of funcationality is reserved for su. so how does one make an unchangeable sbcl environment on a production box using ql? 11:34:20 Shaftoe_: you should use dumped cores for production 11:34:29 QL is for developement 11:35:19 yes, I already use cores. but would the cores not require the fasl's to be still present in the sites dir? 11:35:30 you can use QL for release building, but you might prefer to set up your own scripts that load checked library versions (you can have them override QL) 11:35:32 or can I just run a dumped core on an entirely bare system and expect it to properly funciton? 11:35:56 Shaftoe_: cores are self-standing 11:37:14 I see. that's somewhat of a relief to learn. but it's not fully solved my production environment problem fully: I need to know that the core is being built off of libraries I have cherry picked and are known good. 11:37:28 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:37:34 you mentioned something something about checked versions... 11:38:29 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:38:30 p_l|backup: I wonder: does ql create a site/site-system structure that I could just manually copy over and have it act as a plain asdf package? 11:39:35 p_l|backup: so that when my automated build begins, it is using libraries that are blessed 11:41:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:44:01 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:44:23 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:44:23 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:44:23 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:49:14 Shaftoe_: QLDIR/dists/DISTNAME/software/ 11:49:43 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:50:27 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 11:50:28 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:50:28 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:51:03 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:51:47 replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:52:19 p_l|backup: thanks. 11:52:27 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:52:33 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 11:52:37 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDDF62.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 11:56:00 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-75-108.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:56:01 -!- Guest4003 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:56:22 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:56:38 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 11:57:09 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:57:32 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 12:01:45 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:02:25 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:25 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:02:25 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:04:57 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 12:06:30 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:17 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:08:29 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:08:39 -!- gko [~gko@110-26-71-208.adsl.fetnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:10:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:13:15 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:13:58 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:15:07 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.196] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 12:16:51 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-22-193.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:30 Shaftoe_: quicklisp can also write a "manifest" of system files that are available 12:18:38 Shaftoe_: that can be used to inform asdf's search system 12:18:45 Shaftoe_: that's what I do with buildapp 12:19:07 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:19:11 Xach: thanks. where is this manifest? 12:19:39 (ql:write-asdf-manifest-file "/path/to/file/you/want.txt") 12:19:55 eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has joined #lisp 12:20:05 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has quit [Changing host] 12:20:06 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:20:22 Xach: thanks! 12:20:39 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 12:21:12 Shaftoe_: asdf does not have a bulit-in way to make use of that file, but it's very easy to add 12:21:40 i read each line and make a table of pathname-name => full pathname, and add a lookup closure to asdf:*system-definition-search-functions* 12:22:51 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:22:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 12:24:37 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:25:19 Shaftoe_: sketch of it here: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125120 12:25:31 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:27:37 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:43 How can I redefine a struct that is being used on a running website? 12:28:19 gaidal: with undefined consequences 12:28:26 gaidal: one of the good reasons not to start with structs 12:28:58 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:00 -!- AooA [~Matt@176.16.2.213] has left #lisp 12:29:10 well there's nothing important in this project/package 12:29:14 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 12:29:19 but in other projects in the same process, there are 12:29:28 You could rewrite it and restart lisp, then. 12:29:37 ...so I can't restart lisp 12:29:50 Ever? 12:30:02 Xach: thanks for the snippet 12:30:13 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:31:10 well I'd prefer not to 12:31:11 I haven't learned to write my programs so that it doesn't take lots of manual selective compiling whenever I restart 12:31:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:31:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:31:45 There is no way? 12:31:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:32:07 gaidal: What happens is implementation-defined. One way is to try it and see what happens. 12:32:15 SBCL refuses when I try 12:32:17 gaidal: it's a very good practice to make your programs easy to start/restart 12:32:26 gaidal: It's not too hard to make it so your system can be loaded when you write (asdf:load-system "foo") 12:32:31 I found earlier that it works if I clear any of those structs from memory 12:32:38 but I don't remember where they might be 12:33:11 jdz: it is, isn't it 12:33:45 I'm using your quickproject, yes it doesn't seem that hard 12:33:47 gaidal: is there a "go ahead and do it anyway" restart? 12:34:09 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:34:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:21 Xach: eh, what does that mean? 12:35:26 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 12:35:30 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 12:35:42 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:35:45 -!- xristos is now known as Guest13791 12:35:53 gaidal: when you end up in the debugger, you have options for continuing. one of the options i remember was "go ahead and make the change even though it's not a great idea", or similar. but i haven't used structs in a long time so i don't know if that's what happens. 12:35:54 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has joined #lisp 12:36:11 canada [~canada@bas2-montreal42-3096486619.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:36:12 the options are called "restarts" and they can be different depending on the situation that triggered the debugger. 12:36:13 I'm sorry, got lost in my new stumpwm for a while 12:36:18 -!- varjag [~eugene@62.97.226.122] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:36:38 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:36:48 Hm, haven't heard about those 12:36:59 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-195.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:37:11 oh. wait. 12:37:12 I see. 12:37:26 I'm just being slow 12:37:43 Yes of course I could just choose to override the warning 12:37:44 hello i need help with this http://paste.lisp.org/display/125103 12:39:10 argh 12:39:21 canada: Try indenting it properly to understand the structure. 12:40:18 the things thats not working is the return none part. now a guy last night was trying to help me through it using first, rest and null 12:40:28 -!- Guest13791 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:40:30 but then he disappeared and i felt worse off then before 12:40:46 That is truly sad. 12:41:34 Try asking someone at your school who is paid to help you, or find someone here who will help you privately. 12:41:56 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 12:41:58 thats what im trying to do 12:42:29 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 12:42:54 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-22-193.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:44:29 -!- topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 12:44:58 topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.174] has joined #lisp 12:45:00 i dont know whats the problem of asking for help about lisp in a lisp chatroom... 12:45:07 aliao [~user@115.63.131.192] has joined #lisp 12:46:08 canada: The problem is when it's something extremely basic and no progress or evidence of grasping any of the concepts is apparent. 12:46:24 canada: This place is not great for very basic tutorial-style learning. 12:47:03 It's great if people want to do that for people, but I strongly prefer it is done privately or in some other channel. Maybe #lispcafe is up for it. 12:47:27 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:27 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:47:27 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:47:28 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:48:17 canada: I'll speak for myself, but I doubt it's very different for others: I come here when I have issues that I think the community might have run into, and that it would be unwise for me to waste hours reinventing the wheel. But I'm always prepared to not get a response. People have jobs and lives, after all. 12:48:18 Maybe it's the degree of focus in the questions that makes a difference... 12:48:28 canada: also consider that numerous people tried to help you, but you seemingly failed to make any progress in the last 10 hours. you need to change your approach to learning, i think. 12:48:54 canada: asking in a lisp channel does not seem to work for you 12:50:23 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:51:08 not everyone has the intuitive knack for programming 12:51:30 but continue on with your elitism. thanks to the people who have dedicated time already to helping 12:51:38 -!- canada [~canada@bas2-montreal42-3096486619.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: She is not refined. She is not unrefined. She keeps a parrot. -- Mark Twain] 12:52:20 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 12:52:27 it's sad how the channel seems elitist for a beginner. I can almost understand him. the lisp culture is very different from other programming ones, let alone someone who doesn't program at all 12:52:55 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:52:57 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 12:53:33 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 12:53:35 There are always people who want just enough to pass a course and who have no interest in understanding anything. 12:53:39 -!- topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.174] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:54:01 In my experience, beginners who really want to understand can get a lot of mileage out of #lisp and other CL fora. 12:54:13 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:55:29 it helps to expose talent and ability to make process. this guy did none of that, at least visibly. he kept coming back with "i don't understand". elitist? i'm sorry, but no. 12:55:43 The evidence of really wanting to understand is in the type and evolution of questions asked 12:57:15 -!- morris [~morris@210.117.152.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:58:37 agreed. 12:59:04 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:59:46 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:00:18 dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50.77.31.237] has joined #lisp 13:01:46 I myself have finally solved the problem that has plagued me for 12 hours. 13:01:55 was totally unrelated. 13:01:57 sigh 13:02:08 unrelated to anything 13:02:15 no catharsis 13:02:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:02:40 superflit_ [~superflit@71.208.206.220] has joined #lisp 13:03:03 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:17 If canada would have stayled a little longer, I would have pointed at http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJF/5 13:04:00 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-152-162.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:04:00 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 13:04:37 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:04:45 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:05:02 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 13:05:19 -!- dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50.77.31.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:05:44 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:05:59 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-hagcggrjhcvtmodf] has joined #lisp 13:06:18 pnq [~nick@172.129.236.38] has joined #lisp 13:06:21 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: work!] 13:08:07 -!- BountyX [~erhan@76.241.74.136] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:09:28 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:09:30 BountyX [~erhan@76.241.104.68] has joined #lisp 13:10:57 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 13:11:03 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:11:48 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:13:03 pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:14:29 -!- BountyX [~erhan@76.241.104.68] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:16 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:17:33 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:17:34 H4ns: you seem to be versed in it chtml: how would I render to string an already parsed cxml document? 13:17:51 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:51 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:17:51 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:18:06 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-187-39.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:18:33 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-187-39.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:19:58 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:23:35 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 13:24:22 eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has joined #lisp 13:24:22 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has quit [Changing host] 13:24:22 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:24:49 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:39 -!- sonnym [~sonny@184.74.137.69] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:25:42 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:26:07 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:26:57 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:29:15 what's a proper lisp idiom for doing doing a bfs on a tree? 13:29:25 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:29:49 Use push a lot? 13:29:53 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:53 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:29:53 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:29:55 Shaftoe_: http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3247805927894274@naggum.no.html :) 13:30:18 this got mentioned here yesterday, along with http://www.xach.com/naggum/articles/3247834704250207@naggum.no.html 13:31:57 Shaftoe_: well, of course you can try recursing, but that's too easy 13:32:21 Vutral [~ss@vutral.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:26 Kajtek [~nope@91.150.221.230] has joined #lisp 13:33:47 cheezus [~Adium@76.10.168.148] has joined #lisp 13:34:05 hah. love the closing paragraph. 13:35:14 hah. 13:35:21 that whole thing is quite entertaining to read. 13:35:24 thanks =) 13:36:08 lol, somebody just discovered EN 13:36:24 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:36:27 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:36:37 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:37:57 heh 13:38:21 I don't much read mailing lists and such exchanges. Sometimes to the detriment of my staying informed... 13:39:29 Shaftoe_: note the dates on that posts (and the forum) 13:40:28 jdz: duly noted =) 13:40:29 Shaftoe_: just fetch all cll, and read everything from the beginning. Only 20+ years of backlock to catch up, and happily you can skip over trolling threads. 13:41:18 pjb`: backlog? 13:42:27 yes, all cll messages are archived/ 13:42:28 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:43:25 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.236.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:44:26 eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has joined #lisp 13:44:26 -!- eno [~eno@70.137.140.227] has quit [Changing host] 13:44:26 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:44:42 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 13:45:34 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-tqtraegnduercahu] has joined #lisp 13:46:18 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 13:49:01 -!- Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:49:51 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:50:06 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:50:43 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:43 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:50:43 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 13:50:59 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:58 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 13:54:01 -!- xristos is now known as Guest88749 13:54:13 wolfpython [~wolf@222.94.134.220] has joined #lisp 13:55:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-140-75.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:55:38 pjb: but... if you skip the trolling threads you'll be done in like, 10 minutes 13:56:03 lol 13:56:15 Ha ha ha. 13:57:07 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:57:49 Kron [~Kron@129.97.120.142] has joined #lisp 13:58:56 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 13:59:48 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:01:32 eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:32 -!- eno [~eno@adsl-70-137-140-227.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:01:32 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 14:01:39 -!- Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.49.89] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 14:06:48 heh 14:09:03 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 14:10:58 -!- Guest88749 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:29 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:33 G'morning all. 14:13:52 hi nyef 14:13:58 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 14:15:08 Anything happening? 14:15:59 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:50 Ceaseless Lisp hacking 14:18:03 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:18:13 Oh, good. At least someone is still hacking Lisp. I'm having to head back to ObjC again for a while. 14:19:15 nyef: writing iphone apps ? 14:19:30 fe[nl]ix: Writing iPhone apps, yes. 14:19:59 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 14:20:35 I've already had the "why can't Xcode be more like paredit" moment, and the "what do you MEAN I can't edit properties on my custom view classes in IB" moments. 14:22:17 And, of course, the ever-fun "wait, I'M the iPhone programmer? But the last time I used ObjC was in the mid-90's, and that was looking at some old MUD server" moment. 14:22:59 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:25:51 Mmmmm, MUDs. 14:25:59 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 14:26:17 wbooze` [~levgue@78.35.190.31] has joined #lisp 14:26:30 homie` [~levgue@78.35.190.31] has joined #lisp 14:27:25 -!- homie` [~levgue@78.35.190.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:27:29 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@78.35.190.31] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:28:23 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-187-39.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:28:32 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-187-39.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:29:01 What MUD was written in Objectionable-C though? 14:29:15 "CheezeMUD" or something like that. 14:29:32 Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 14:29:49 On the whole, it was pretty bad. Each room was a separate class, which was a completely stupid design. 14:30:02 That's very odd. 14:30:08 Let us speak of how to do it better with CLOS 14:30:14 Well before virtual grids then. 14:30:15 But the network interface was actually far cleaner than any Diku derivative I've seen before or since. 14:30:51 Diku derivative, eh 14:31:12 Xach: The same design wouldn't have been quite as bad with CLOS, because we have the ability to redefine classes and to define new classes at runtime. 14:31:45 It'd still be pretty stupid, though. Rooms should be data, not code. 14:31:54 Agreed. 14:32:09 LPC had rooms as code and it worked quite well 14:32:31 Same with LambdaMOO 14:32:31 dlowe_lt: Yes, but LPC was an interpreted language /within/ the MUD engine. 14:32:41 Same with LambdaMOO. 14:32:43 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:32:48 nyef: compiled to bytecode 14:33:12 Doesn't invalidate my point. 14:33:28 dlowe, but LPC was also the home of virtual grids, which were distinctly not rooms-as-code. 14:33:59 If you have to do a full build of your MUD engine and a reboot in order to change a typo in a room description, your design is badly screwed up. 14:34:41 If you have to do a reboot to change a typo in a room description, your design is screwed up :P 14:34:42 If you can just log in as a user and enter a command to fix that typo, your design is quite a bit better. 14:34:42 anyway, I wrote a mud codebase in CL, but it was long after I could get anyone interested in a text game 14:34:51 nyef: sure 14:35:12 Patzy [~something@bro29-1-82-245-180-56.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:25 I should plonk it on the web 14:35:47 I know plenty of people interested in a text game, but they've already got one. :) 14:36:04 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.180.200] has joined #lisp 14:36:07 So-called "copyover" is a kludge for doing actual logic changes "more smoothly", but having to use it for world-building is stupid. Hence the popularity of so-called "OLC" patches for ROM. 14:36:34 Either way, still not a good substitute for being able to redefine functions at runtime. 14:38:31 Oladon: there's a lot of free computer games out there competing for attention 14:38:38 mpelican [~mickp@75.146.46.193] has joined #lisp 14:38:57 dlowe_lt: True story. 14:39:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:39:42 And people are such GUI...people... nowadays that it's hard to find people who appreciate their own imaginations 14:40:04 ... try the fiction section of your local library. 14:40:10 antgreen [~user@70.50.67.27] has joined #lisp 14:40:11 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:20 dlowe_lt, run one! People still play MUDs. 14:40:21 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 14:40:24 nyef: Yeah, try finding people who actually check out fiction anymore and aren't geeks 14:40:56 Oladon: True enough, I suppose. The non-geeks just buy ebooks for their kindles. :-P 14:41:05 nyef: heh 14:41:14 or play angry birds 14:41:26 All I'm sayin' is that people are gluttonized on "oooooh, pretty!" 14:43:04 Those who read, anyway. Lots of people around here don't read at all. I saw a Facebook post... Hm. Ah, it said: "F* BOOKS! Who in the Hell Reads" 14:43:23 I was shocked. I replied: "those who want to do better than minimum wage" 14:43:58 ... well, anyone who could understand that post reads... unless they're using text-to-speech software? 14:44:02 hehe, ChibaPet 14:44:14 We get people on our MUD a lot who don't want to read. 14:44:22 It's ironically amusing. 14:44:41 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:44:45 *sykopomp* is still working on a text-based storytelling game. 14:44:50 (in CL) 14:45:17 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:45:55 sykopomp: cool! 14:46:35 Like talespin? 14:47:07 I don't really consider it a MUD, but it's the same sort of thing: There's a bunch of text. I'm also doing a web interface with colors, clickables, etc. 14:47:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:09 ... At some point, I'd like to spend some time messing with markov processes and bayesian methods for text processing... Preferably before 2012. 14:47:19 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 14:47:24 Oladon: do you know about #lispgames? 14:47:29 if not, then now you do 14:47:53 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has joined #lisp 14:48:07 Oladon1 [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:11 nyef: I think you can give people a nice GUI with lots of convenience and eyecandy while still fully keeping to the text-based gameplay :) 14:48:26 nyef: sounds fun 14:48:48 madnificent: I haz form builder now, btw. 14:49:44 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 14:49:45 homie [~levgue@78.35.190.31] has joined #lisp 14:50:01 -!- Oladon1 is now known as Oladon 14:50:31 zirplio [46565022@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.86.80.34] has joined #lisp 14:50:35 ahh it's a wonderful day 14:50:38 I built an irc chatter bot that uses markov chains to generate new language, which resides pretty firmly in the uncanny valley. 14:50:55 incidentally, and this is a bit of a tangent: this years ifcomp (IF competition) is running now -- play the games, cast your votes! 14:50:57 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-190-31.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:52:42 Zhivago: I've never heard of talespin, and a children's show is making googling about the matter a bit difficult. 14:53:47 Ooh, IFcomp 14:54:35 http://norvig.com/ltd/test/micro-tale-spin.lisp 14:55:02 There are other versions. 14:55:09 ps -- http://ifcomp.org/comp11/ 14:56:03 http://grandtextauto.org/2006/09/13/the-story-of-meehans-tale-spin/ 14:56:04 Zhivago: it's not really generated storytelling -- it's more a multiplayer thing where the various players write various parts. 14:56:21 drdo [~drdo@2001:690:2100:1b:1e65:9dff:fe64:8b4b] has joined #lisp 14:56:31 The idea is of stories as problem solving arcs. 14:56:45 It might be useful to you. I don't know. 14:57:14 Or frustration arcs, from the other direction. 14:57:27 it might! Thanks for the links. :) 14:59:28 KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:28 -!- KingNato_ [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:59:40 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: need to reboot this erc....] 15:00:17 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:00:31 -!- aerique [310225@194.109.21.8] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:00:43 -!- pjb is now known as Guest1343 15:00:48 Zhivago: http://curveship.com/ might be of interest 15:00:54 -!- Guest1343 is now known as pjb` 15:01:07 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 15:02:48 -!- KingNato [~patno@fw.polopoly.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:05:26 ChibaPet: I do run a MUD. We haven't gotten any new players in two years. 15:06:11 *dlowe_lt* takes it to #lispgames 15:09:34 cfa: Thanks. 15:09:38 np 15:18:12 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:20:48 Cam [~Cam@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 15:22:32 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 15:22:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-140-75.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:23:11 -!- Kron [~Kron@129.97.120.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:24:19 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-130-151.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:25:17 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.81.201.190] has joined #lisp 15:27:08 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-140-75.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:16 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-hagcggrjhcvtmodf] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:28:29 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:01 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:31:58 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 15:32:00 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 15:32:03 -!- xristos is now known as Guest68994 15:33:09 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:34:39 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:35:18 Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:18 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:31 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 -!- kami` is now known as kami 15:37:35 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:37:45 marw [~marw@unaffiliated/marw] has joined #lisp 15:38:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:38:59 -!- Guest68994 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:39:03 rachekhan [~Rachekhan@94.50.164.59] has joined #lisp 15:39:12 hello. i have a function, but i don't know how to call it: (defun count-all-atoms (exp &optional (if-null 1)). i know that if-null is optional, but i keep getting errors 15:39:16 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:39:37 (count-all-atoms '(1 2 3)) 15:40:48 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 15:40:56 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@222.94.134.220] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:41:58 Xach: is there a place in quicklisp where I could look up where you retrieve the upstream repository of a package? 15:42:10 Hi, can one think of a way to implement this algorithm in CL http://paste.lisp.org/display/125123 I'm not asking for the actual implementation but the general ideas 15:42:22 kami: not within quicklisp, that info is available at https://github.com/quicklisp/quicklisp-projects/ 15:42:29 Xach: thank you 15:42:32 kami: i hope to make it avaialable within or around quicklisp 15:43:07 Xach: well, would follow the principle of least surprise 15:43:35 I'd like to make it easy for someone to independently get the same (or newer) files that I have gotten. 15:43:41 That is not so easy right now. 15:44:04 pjb: and how do i pass that if-null argument? 15:44:05 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:44:47 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has left #lisp 15:44:52 franco: Sounds straight-forward. 15:45:33 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:45:54 Xach: I recently used a tool from the Android ecosystem called 'repo' which downloads a bunch of git repositories at once from the code review server Gerrit. 15:46:26 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:32 The tool consists of a shell script which then seems to clone a git repository which contains the python code of the tool proper. 15:46:38 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:47:10 quicklisp could git clone quicklisp-projects 15:47:58 (optionally, to avoid the dependency) 15:47:59 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 15:48:23 Zhivago: I'll have a go at it tonight, if it's easy I think I can implement a simple 'toy' relational database engine 15:48:51 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67.194.223.234] has joined #lisp 15:49:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-140-75.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:49:50 marw: what error do you get? 15:50:35 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-tqtraegnduercahu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:36 Xach: i corrected the error (errr... typo). but i still don't know how to pass that if-null param... 15:50:52 *marw* is just learning 15:51:06 marw: You mean instead of it using the default optional value? 15:51:19 yes 15:51:41 Xach: where can I look up which git repo 'kmr-git' refers to? 15:51:45 marw: You just provide it as an additional argument in the call. 15:52:01 as if it was a two-argument function. 15:52:17 kami: oh, that is not so easy to find, but it's git.b9.com 15:52:27 marw: (count-all-atoms nil 42) 15:52:46 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@170.122.250.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:53:23 I have just tried to launch Maxima mode in GNU Emacs and I got the runtime error in SBCL: "pid 3200(tid 3086890688) : can't load .core for different runtime, sorry" - what should I do? 15:53:38 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76.10.168.148] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:53:40 rachekhan: Option one is to rebuild maxima. 15:53:43 Xach: do you keep all the symbolic repo names in your own memory? 15:53:48 (just curious) 15:54:12 kami: no. 15:54:28 kami: i do not use symbolic names so much any more for new things, so there aren't that many. 15:54:40 So I'm trying to use CLSQL to connect to a database... but getting 'Couldn't load foreign library "clsql_uffi".' The foreign-library-search-paths is (#P"/usr/local/lib/sbcl/site/clsql-6.0.1/uffi/"), and that directory contains clsql.{c,dll,lib,lisp} and some other things. I've Googled, but the solutions given (quickloading clsql-uffi, apt-get installing cl-sql) don't work. Any ideas? 15:55:36 Oladon: If you've installed clsql outside of quicklisp, loading it with quicklisp will find that outside version. 15:55:38 Xach: git clone git://git.b9.com/uffi.git hangs forever (this was the reason I started to look where quicklisp gets its version from) 15:55:46 Xach: I installed it using Quicklisp 15:55:49 -!- aliao [~user@115.63.131.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:56:12 rme [~rme@50.43.153.241] has joined #lisp 15:56:20 Oladon: what does (asdf:system-source-directory "clsql") return? 15:56:30 kami: I use http git urls 15:56:38 #P"/usr/local/lib/sbcl/site/clsql-6.0.1/" 15:56:50 Oladon: that means you have also installed it with something else, and that something else might be interfering. 15:56:54 Hmm 15:57:08 It should say something like /home/oldadon/quicklisp/.../clsql. 15:57:13 Ah 15:57:17 Suggested course of action? :) 15:57:23 Remove the other thing. 15:57:34 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-olhadtemjjtxeqdv] has joined #lisp 15:57:40 With rm? I'm guessing there's a better way 15:57:51 Did you install the other thing with asdf-install or something? 15:58:06 Quite possibly... I was trying to get it working earlier 15:58:18 Xach: git clone http://git.b9.com/uffi.git did the trick. Thank you! 15:58:22 kami: yay 15:58:38 you can use unlink instead of rm 15:58:39 Oladon: how you remove will depend on how you installed. with asdf-install, you just use rm -rf. 15:58:44 ok 15:59:03 stassats: 1+ 15:59:10 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:59:29 It's gone. 15:59:49 Oladon: now what does (asdf:system-source-directory "clsql") return? 16:00:14 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:00:19 Error while trying to load definition for system clsql from pathname /usr/local/lib/sbcl/site-systems/clsql.asd: 16:00:30 Oladon: out of curiosity, what kind of database will you use clsql for? 16:00:34 MySQL 16:00:39 Oladon: remove that file 16:00:48 Might be easier if you restart CL, too. 16:00:49 Coulda sworn I did... 16:00:54 Yeah, I did restart SBCL 16:01:05 i'd remove site-systems and site altogether 16:01:16 Yeah, asdf-install detritus does nobody much good. 16:01:31 Ok. Now loaded CLSQL with quickload. 16:01:40 Oladon: did it work successfully? 16:01:49 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:01:50 The load did, but that's worked before. Let me try the connect... 16:01:59 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:44 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 16:02:53 same error: Couldn't load foreign library "clsql_uffi". (searched CLSQL-SYS:*FOREIGN-LIBRARY-SEARCH-PATHS*) 16:03:06 (#P"/root/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/clsql-20111001-git/uffi/") 16:03:26 "root", how uncool 16:03:28 heh 16:03:29 I wonder what's up. Do you have a working C compiler? 16:03:32 I do 16:03:47 gcc 4.4.5 16:04:02 Oladon: also make-utils? 16:04:08 *Xach* tries to remember if uffi prints out compiler output or anything useful like that 16:04:22 Oladon: do you have the development libraries for mysql client stuff? 16:04:28 Yep 16:04:39 mysql-devel 5.1.52 16:04:56 Kron [~Kron@129-97-243-142.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:05:27 paul0 [~paul0@189.26.131.120.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:05:27 can you go to that directory and issue make? 16:06:31 sure... 16:06:49 o.O 16:07:10 It is done 16:07:16 But it did not help 16:07:28 Oladon: file clsql_uffi*.so in that same directory can give you an idea that some multilib (-m32 / -m64) confusion is going on 16:08:33 Yeah, looks like that's the case... it's complaining about an incompatible libc 16:08:57 hrm 16:09:30 -!- rachekhan [~Rachekhan@94.50.164.59] has left #lisp 16:09:35 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:09:36 Oladon: Is your SBCL 64-bit or 32-bit? 16:09:50 jdz [~jdz@host37-108-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:10:06 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 16:10:23 Xach: are you following the thread 'A Quicklisp Debian package' on pkg-common-lisp-devel@lists.alioth.debian.org ? 16:10:31 kami: No. 16:10:52 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 16:11:08 Xach: do you think it is useful to have a debian package? 16:11:27 akovalenko: hrm, not sure. 16:11:34 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-kftgunuuwujgwjih] has joined #lisp 16:11:48 hang on, I'll find out 16:11:57 "Debian: harming Common Lisp software since, since somewhen" 16:11:57 Oladon: ask /usr/bin/file 16:12:14 stassats: heh 16:12:16 kami: I can't imagine how. I'm open to being convinced. 16:12:21 ahh... it's 32... 16:12:23 urg 16:12:27 this is going to mess up everything, isn't it. 16:12:48 housel [~user@mccarthy.opendylan.org] has joined #lisp 16:13:03 maybe not. but, if your gcc defaults to -m64 and your SBCL is 32-bit.. 16:13:16 indeed. 16:13:25 I'll install the 64bit version 16:16:00 Xach: I have no real opinion. As an Ubuntu user, I like the idea of 'apt-get install quicklisp' 16:16:13 -!- rainyrhy|afk is now known as rainyrhy 16:16:25 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 16:16:33 It would lower the barrier for a lot of people who use debian-derived distros. 16:16:41 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:16:47 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:16:48 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:16:59 *Xach* will wait and see 16:18:00 -!- jdz [~jdz@host37-108-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:18:25 jdz [~jdz@host37-108-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:18:42 kami: as far as I can tell from looking around in other languages (mostly ruby), very few people use distro mechanisms to install their environment, either. 16:18:59 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:19:03 (annoyingly, ruby suffers from the same packaged-code rot as lisp does (-:) 16:20:13 -!- Kron [~Kron@129-97-243-142.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:20:13 antifuchs: when I read that thread I thought maybe one could use the dependency information which Xach has gathered to automatically package debian packages 16:20:34 (I think it was mentioned explicitly by one of the posters) 16:20:39 yeah - the problem is that you also have to respond to bug reports, and keep them up to date 16:20:39 -!- Kajtek [~nope@91.150.221.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:21:05 cheezus [~Adium@bas2-toronto36-2925494721.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 16:21:09 we've already been at a point where there were many many lisp packages in debian, but they were stuck at a certain release and gradually grew more incompatible and less maintained 16:21:30 and that debian's release schedule isn't synced with quicklisp's (and vice-versa) doesn't help 16:21:41 antifuchs: I see. 16:22:18 put the packages on another repository. See google chrome, for example. makes it easy to start and to stay up to date 16:22:20 having the quicklisp installer available would be interesting - but then you'd have to install a lisp environment as a dependency, and then the nightmare of sbcl 0.9.8-whatever starts again 16:22:32 koollman: that's what quicklisp does (: 16:22:42 debian packages, I mean. 16:22:46 yeah, no 16:23:08 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-142.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 16:23:12 serving up debian packages has the disadvantage of discouraging M-. usage 16:23:17 antifuchs: it would be interesting to make a tool (not unlike module-assistant), so anyone can debianize libraries from Quicklisp locally.. 16:23:18 (and hacking around in code) 16:23:36 I'm not very interested in that - but if you want... (: 16:23:59 antifuchs: why would it discourage hacking around ? 16:24:11 Xach: after installing SBCL 64-bit, quickloading CLSQL, I get: Couldn't load foreign libraries "libmysqlclient", "libmysql". (searched CLSQL-SYS:*FOREIGN-LIBRARY-SEARCH-PATHS*) 16:24:12 personally, I really like that with quicklisp, my unix user owns the source code, so that I can M-. to a library definition and start altering it 16:24:24 that var contains #P"/root/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/clsql-20111001-git/db-mysql/" and #P"/root/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/clsql-20111001-git/uffi/" 16:24:30 when done, quicklisp will continue using the new definition. 16:24:34 Any thoughts? 16:24:44 if you install a debian package, the contents are owned by root (or some other system user). 16:24:44 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-kftgunuuwujgwjih] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:24:46 antifuchs: I have the opposite use case which might be exotic: we have servers where multiple developers simultaneously are logged in. 16:24:48 antifuchs: I see. Package a quicklisp auto-user-installer then ? :) 16:25:19 antifuchs: I would like to give them the same set of base libraries 16:25:20 koollman: yeah, that would be nice, but again: it'll depend on a version of common-lisp-implementation that will quickly grow out of date 16:25:25 Oladon: where is your libmysqlclient? 16:25:29 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 16:25:36 Oladon: is libmysqlclient 32-bit or 64-bit? 16:25:43 antifuchs: this version can be also packaged on the repository. 16:25:46 -!- xristos is now known as Guest48215 16:25:50 akovalenko: I don't have that package... don't see it on yum search either. I have mysql-devel 16:25:51 kami: yeah - that's not something I care about very much feel free to think about this, but I don't think it's a productive route to go down 16:26:18 well, something like rbenv and ruby-build for lisp would be very interesting - I rather like those two projects (: 16:26:40 Oladon: rpm -ql mysql-devel 16:27:45 /usr/lib64/mysql/libmysqlclient.so 16:27:58 Another question regarding packages and versions: would it be possible to load two different versions of the same package (by loading them into some artificially generated package) 16:27:58 do I need to symlink that from the dir in the above var? 16:28:56 -!- Blkt [~user@89.96.199.46] has quit [Quit: going home...] 16:29:13 Oladon: I would try adding #P"/usr/lib64/mysql/" to clsql-sys:*foreign-library-search-paths* instead 16:29:39 I went the ln route -- but it worked! :) 16:29:42 e.g. load cl-foo version 1.0 into cl-foo-1.0 and if another package depends-on cl-foo and there is only one cl-foo loaded into the image, it would use cl-foo-1.0? 16:30:53 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:31:00 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has joined #lisp 16:31:37 hmm, so the connection was established... now I'm getting an error when trying to query 16:31:40 *Oladon* goes back to Googling 16:32:12 urandom__ [~user@p548A3FC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:31 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-248-123.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:01 -!- Guest48215 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:33:39 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:33:48 xan_ [~xan@190.Red-88-12-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:29 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 16:34:36 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:41 I think it has something to do with utf-8. 16:35:31 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:37:19 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:38:55 -!- cheezus [~Adium@bas2-toronto36-2925494721.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:39:00 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:39:23 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:41:22 aleron [~brad@55.sub-166-248-79.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 16:44:12 -!- mpelican [~mickp@75.146.46.193] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:44:27 mickp [~mickp@75.146.46.193] has joined #lisp 16:44:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:45:03 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has joined #lisp 16:45:18 -!- mickp [~mickp@75.146.46.193] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:45:54 wishbone4 [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 16:46:02 mickp [~mickp@75.146.46.193] has joined #lisp 16:48:56 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:50:01 Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@109.82.240.136] has joined #lisp 16:50:31 -!- mickp [~mickp@75.146.46.193] has quit [Client Quit] 16:51:02 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Client Quit] 16:51:10 mickp [~mickp@75.146.46.193] has joined #lisp 16:51:21 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:52:03 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:53:09 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.41] has joined #lisp 16:53:41 antifuchs: you nerds and your editing project source code! 16:54:01 I know, right? must be a european thing (: 16:54:15 leave those codes alone 16:54:18 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 16:54:25 y'all 16:54:49 i guess if you're stuck with modes that rhyme with "baden-baden", you edit a lot of project code to work 16:56:00 -!- mickp [~mickp@75.146.46.193] has quit [Client Quit] 16:56:48 mickp [~mickp@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 16:57:56 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67.194.223.234] has quit [Quit: ] 16:58:41 slime doesn't rhyme with baden-baden! 16:58:54 -!- Intensity [lqzqoydVnd@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:59:08 i was thinking more about (setq inferior-lisp-program "b-blisp") 16:59:34 slime does #1=rhyme with #1# 17:00:34 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-16-207.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:02:17 troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has joined #lisp 17:02:31 is not cl-muproc in quicklisp? 17:02:54 or it's not popular enought to be included 17:04:17 hakzsam_ [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has joined #lisp 17:04:19 cheezus [~Adium@bas2-toronto36-2925494721.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:04:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:04:25 -!- hakzsam_ [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:33 hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has joined #lisp 17:04:41 -!- rainyrhy is now known as rainyrhy|afk 17:05:17 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:05:41 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.157.170.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:19 it is according to this http://is.gd/vHH3sI 17:06:23 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-180-56.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:06:30 however it seems i can't install it 17:06:36 troydm: what happens when you try? 17:06:50 system-not-found 17:07:02 (ql:quickload "cl-muproc") 17:07:06 troydm: actually, its presence in quicklisp-projects does not mean it is included. 17:07:22 troydm: it means i attempt to build it and if it builds, it is included. it looks like cl-muproc does not build for me. 17:07:25 *Xach* checks why 17:07:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@host37-108-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:08:10 ah, because i haven't added TIMER to quicklisp. and i'm not likely to. 17:08:29 Xach: what's TIMER ? 17:08:45 jdz [~jdz@host37-108-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:08:54 TIMER is an SBCL interface for scheduling events to occur at specified times. 17:09:42 they do mention they support over implementations though 17:09:55 Xach: so i have to manually compile and install TIMER and only then i can install cl-muproc 17:09:56 so how does that work if it needs an SBCL specific interface 17:10:15 troydm: yes. 17:10:29 Xach: thx for hint 17:10:31 Guthur: conditionalization, i suppose. 17:10:42 lol TIMER is yours, Xach 17:10:55 Yes. A buggy, SBCL-only project that should just go away. 17:11:02 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 17:12:49 So i'm just curios so i thought i would try some library that mimics erlangs mulitprocessor system 17:12:58 so the first thing i hit is cl-muproc 17:13:07 but is there anything better? 17:13:24 or what's the most popular multiprocessing library 17:13:37 it would be good if it had some kind of thread pooling 17:13:59 -!- xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:14:08 -!- aleron [~brad@55.sub-166-248-79.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:14:13 so basicly speaking it would run multiple using thread pool 17:14:23 *multiple tasks 17:14:31 I vaguely remember a few projects along those lines, but at the moment, none of the names. 17:14:39 troydm: have you tried (ql:quickload "thread-pool") ? 17:14:49 akovalenko: nope 17:14:55 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:14:58 troydm, while to a multiprocessing specific library it certainly could be used as one, ZeroMQ 17:15:29 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 17:15:31 and would allow you to have a pool of worker threads, one minor problem is that it is not CL native, though there is a binding 17:15:41 is it http://is.gd/9pCeDk 17:15:45 -!- xristos is now known as Guest69577 17:15:52 this would mean that you might have marshal some alien data 17:16:44 Guthur: yea that is if i want to have something distributed across systems 17:17:07 troydm, doesn't have to be distributed 17:17:09 Guthur: but i don't need erlang distributed process model 17:17:13 it has an inproc protocol as well 17:18:10 but then if you want to go distributed all you need to do is change the node address 17:18:22 Any idea why CLSQL select fails to find a table, but query works fine? 17:18:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:18:39 is this one based on bordeuax threads http://is.gd/UpTzKb ? 17:19:09 Oladon: "query works fine" & "select fails" ?? 17:19:37 Oladon, probably because select is failing to identify the table that you are searching for (or in someother was is mangling the query it is trying to produce) 17:19:40 clsql:query vs clsql:select 17:19:46 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:19:54 Oladon: I'd hazard a guess that some upper/lower case conversion is going on, and you don't expect it 17:20:00 troydm, the system definition file says it depends on it, at least 17:20:02 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:20:11 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:15 Oladon: what do you main by fail? Fails to return results or signals an error? 17:20:43 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:20:49 signals error. Hmm... I used the reader debug to check what it's producing... 17:20:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:20:53 Oladon: enable sql recording inside of the connection and it will print the query it is issuing 17:21:28 I enabled sql-reader-syntax 17:21:31 Oladon: What is the error 17:21:40 no such table 17:22:17 -!- jdz [~jdz@host37-108-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:34 Ah, interesting... it's doing some case conversion, it seems 17:22:40 akovalenko was probably correct then, (it messed up case conversion or quoting) 17:22:41 Oladon: show your code (both select and query) 17:22:54 also the error message 17:22:59 Yeah, it case-converted the table name 17:23:13 when I change the table name from the output of clsql:sql to lowercase, it works 17:23:14 -!- xan_ [~xan@190.Red-88-12-7.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 17:23:22 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:23:27 -!- cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has quit [Quit: -> home] 17:23:27 but doesn't with clsql:query with the uppercase table name 17:23:30 thanks guys. 17:23:46 Now I just have to figure out how to tell it not to do that 17:23:54 jdz [~jdz@host37-108-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:25:00 -!- Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-142.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:26:07 Oladon: '|my_lowercase_name| 17:26:20 Oladon: but my_autoconverted_name 17:26:27 .. => MY_AUTOCONVERTED_NAME 17:26:37 ah 17:26:49 I may just change mysql to not be case sensitive 17:26:57 Oladon: look up READTABLE-CASE description in the standard 17:27:03 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-bngrnmwadbjwyscj] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:27:12 ah 17:27:16 thanks 17:27:33 standard sql is like lisp in that identifiers are normally case-folded 17:27:36 Oladon: tuning MySQL might be useless (CLSQL may take some special care to pass identifiers literally) 17:27:42 mysql is not very standard in that regard 17:29:30 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:29:39 grr, the mysql "fix" didn't work 17:29:56 *Oladon* looks up READTABLE-CASE 17:30:32 rename your tables to upper-case and learn to live with that :) 17:31:02 heh 17:31:44 sort of convention anyway 17:32:09 -!- marw [~marw@unaffiliated/marw] has left #lisp 17:32:41 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:43 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:33:00 hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 -!- ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:33:24 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-16-207.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:21 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-16-207.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 17:34:24 well... actually convention is not to be case-sensitive 17:34:45 I'll use the pipes... thanks akovalenko. 17:35:15 Oladon: mysql convention *is* to be case-senstive. 17:35:31 If it wasn't, problem solved... 17:36:04 Yeah, but MySQL is messed up like that :P 17:36:08 Oladon: JFYI, we call pipes "multiple escape characters" 17:36:14 ah 17:38:04 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:59 -!- Guest69577 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:43:53 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-16-207.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:43:57 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 17:44:19 Now go blog about how helpful we are! 17:44:27 heh 17:44:41 I'm busy trying to figure out why my function isn't working ;P 17:44:51 *Xach* is tired of getting beat up in the blogs 17:44:57 :( 17:45:01 *Oladon* comforts Xach 17:45:33 Xach: really? I haven't seen anything like that 17:45:33 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:45:59 xristos_ [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 17:46:22 Look harder! 17:46:30 CLSQL hates me 17:48:31 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:49:09 http://pastebin.com/wSxpwgSf 17:49:25 If someone wouldn't mind taking a look there and helping me understand why it's not returning the last line... 17:49:28 That'd be phenomenal. 17:49:45 I'm guessing something's going wrong with the connect or the execute-command 17:50:07 what is with that use-package and in-package stuff? And why not use paste.lisp.org? and why not indent properly? 17:50:27 sorry, copy-pasted from the repl 17:50:38 Don't write stuff in the repl, write it in files. 17:50:42 the use-package and in-package stuff was a (vain) attempt to get stuff to work 17:50:43 send it to the repl with C-c C-c. 17:50:51 Or C-x C-e. 17:51:14 Oladon: (setf clsql:*default-database* (clsql:connect ...)) ;; or how would it know what to use? 17:51:28 that's the dbname 17:51:35 *df* blogs about Xach moaning about the way they format their code 17:51:41 heh 17:51:45 er, s/they/people/ 17:51:56 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:52:16 hang on, I'll make it better. 17:53:03 Oladon: also, when pasting stuff, it can help to explain what you expected and what you got instead. 17:53:04 Oladon: Postgres doesn't require uppercase identifiers - otoh, it converts unquoted names to lower case: http://www.postgresql.org/docs/8.0/static/sql-syntax.html#SQL-SYNTAX-IDENTIFIERS Postgres also offers more possibitilies with constraints, joins, indices and more advanced stuff than MySQL. 17:53:08 It's not always clear from just the code. 17:53:24 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:53:27 http://pastebin.com/wSxpwgSf 17:53:41 not an improvement. 17:53:46 heh 17:53:52 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:53:58 Oladon: you don't want to connect on each request, do you? 17:54:06 akovalenko: I do, actually 17:54:19 Decided it'd be better than potentially leaving the connection open for hours unused 17:54:31 it should be producing a web page with "This is a response for ", where user has been POSTed 17:54:34 *akovalenko* expects "CLSQL is sloooow" after some hours 17:54:48 akovalenko: hmm... well, I'm going to disconnect it too :P 17:54:57 I just haven't gotten to that part yet. 17:55:14 Oladon: CLSQL:WITH-DATABASE will not hate you, then :) 17:55:45 *Oladon* looks that up 17:56:24 *ponders* 17:56:34 Interesting... 17:56:54 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:56:58 That's probably a better solution for this. 17:57:06 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-cczudlkpcpzclhic] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:59:00 That way it won't complain if two users try to connect at once, right? 17:59:07 ... or would it still. 17:59:31 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 17:59:36 Oladon: (CLSQL:WITH-DATABASE (CLSQL:*DEFAULT-DATABASE* ) ..) 17:59:49 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:59:58 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 18:00:05 nods, just put one of those together 18:00:13 Oh! And it works! 18:00:19 *Oladon* bows before akovalenko. 18:00:23 *attila_lendvai* is pondering why is split-sequence not included in alexandria? 18:00:52 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:01:08 -!- zirplio [46565022@gateway/web/freenode/ip.70.86.80.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:01:08 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:03:15 Team player: Alexandria will not (initially, at least) subsume or provide functionality for which good-quality special-purpose packages exist, like split-sequence. Instead, third party packages such as that may be "blessed". 18:03:32 http://common-lisp.net/project/alexandria/ 18:04:34 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:05:05 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:05:14 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:07:07 I think it'd be okay in this one instance 18:07:45 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 18:09:00 though split-sequence could be written in a more efficient way 18:13:03 stassats: fork it and improve it 18:13:14 can any1 explain me why this http://pastebin.com/jEM80B65 sorts numbers in reversed order? 18:14:07 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:07 EyesIsServer [~eyes@WiseOS/Founder/EyesIsMine] has joined #lisp 18:14:17 troydm: because you're inserting numbers in the front of the lists next to the pivot 18:14:27 (cons x y) will put x in front 18:14:55 antifuchs: sorry my fault 18:14:59 -!- Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@109.82.240.136] has left #lisp 18:15:22 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:15:39 troydm: no worries, it's faster than inserting at the end (unless you do some more complicated bookkeeping) 18:16:30 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 18:16:39 antifuchs: no problem was i (funcall f p i) 18:16:40 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-139-39-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:16:41 Heh. (setf (car list-head) (push new-element (cdar list-head))) bookkeeping? 18:16:48 antifuchs: i've changed the order of p and i 18:17:07 antifuchs: for ql sort it's no matter at what end you insert data 18:17:16 troydm: I was going to suggest inverting the consequent and alternative of that IF, but switching the arguments to the comparator is good. 18:17:19 -!- cheezus [~Adium@bas2-toronto36-2925494721.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:17:28 ah, hah 18:17:50 fe[nl]ix: i don't use it 18:18:08 yeah, you're right - it makes no difference. you could also switch the order of quicksort calls in (append (quick-sort n f) (list p) (quick-sort r f)) 18:18:20 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:18:23 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:18:34 -!- hakzsam [~hakzsam@64.120.44.106] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:18:42 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 18:18:48 re 18:19:04 Xach: hey, i think i've spotted a missing quicklisp dependency 18:19:12 cfa: ok, what's up? 18:19:43 ... You know, I don't use that (setf (car x) (push y (cadr x))) trick nearly often enough. 18:19:57 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:20:24 -!- benny [~benny@i577A21AD.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:20:39 i just quickloaded weblocks to try the demo; on load i'm told that cl-prevalence is missing. i subsequently quickloaded it, everything runs okay. 18:20:55 (And, yes, you have to set list-head/x up as #1=(#1#).) 18:21:18 cfa: on load of what? 18:21:30 benny [~benny@i577A88DB.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:48 (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op 'weblocks-demo) 18:21:53 [see http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/installation] 18:22:17 cfa: if you used (ql:quickload "weblocks-demo"), it would have installed the dependencies for you. 18:22:35 cfa: asdf does not hook into quicklisp to automatically fetch things as needed. 18:23:00 quickloading a system does not fetch everything its sibling systems might depend on. 18:23:03 Qworkescence: I was taught to avoid trivial and obvious comments... Complex algebra is _known_. 18:23:10 aha, i didn't see this separate system 18:23:19 (i just dumbly followed the instructions and installed weblocks) 18:23:39 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:23:40 i should probably ping these guys to get them to clarify their instructions though -- thanks for you time 18:23:49 your* 18:23:49 btw why doesn't this work (push '1 '()) ? 18:24:22 pjb, Not around my office it isn't. :( 18:24:24 troydm: NIL is not a place. 18:24:49 Xach: ahh yes thank you 18:24:51 troydm: think of it as (setf () (cons 1 ())) 18:25:18 (for anyone wondering, pjb is talking about http://paste.lisp.org/display/125122 which is a comment I put in our production code) 18:25:23 cfa: those instructions need work in more than one respect. (asdf:load-system ...) is so much swankier. 18:25:54 Qworkescence: the comments on reddit are discouragingly...something. "stupid" is not quite the right word. 18:26:09 cfa: but under the hood it does call cons yes? 18:26:16 Xach, I know what you mean 18:26:55 troydm: note this, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_push.htm, "except that the subforms of place are evaluated only once, and item is evaluated before place." 18:28:01 cfa: thx 18:28:27 Xach: incidentally, where are the dependencies for quicklisp systems specified? 18:28:31 stassats: sent you an optimized split-sequence I have lying around for very long... (same algo, just type help for the compiler) 18:28:35 Qworkescence: well, when I was in school, we did a lot of complex algebra. But I'd concede that nowadays people don't learn as much, so right, it might be necessary. I would just put a wikipedia link however... 18:28:41 (sorry if i'm overlooking an obvious explanation on the quicklisp page) 18:29:21 pjb, It sounds reasonable, but you'll have to trust me that writing it out is the better way to get a point across around here. 18:30:01 cfa: quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/systems.txt and releases.txt 18:30:04 In the UK I think you would have to do A-Level maths to get complex algebra 18:30:09 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 18:30:26 A-Level is just before university 18:30:48 Xach: thanks. and how do you maintain this? 18:31:17 cfa: with a lisp program. 18:31:28 my 0.02USD: perhaps inclusion of a dissertation on complex numbers is debateable, but I've worked on too many proprietary systems with squat for documentation, and an extended comment like the one in Qworkescence's paste would be a pleasure to see. 18:31:42 When I was in school, I didn't have the impression to be in any "advanced" class either. There was a lot that wasn't taught and that I didn't learn :-( But then, I am from a generation who was promized the stars (and flying cars) for 2000. 18:32:22 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:32:28 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:28 Xach: which presumably extracts the :depends-on information from the .asd? 18:32:34 pjb, you guys were suppose to make them, so I hold you entirely responsible for the lack of flying cars 18:32:35 Oh, I don't mind comprehensive comments. The question is whether complexes are general culture, or highly technical a point. 18:33:03 Guthur: Yes, I keep telling me that not to revolt :-) 18:33:07 pjb: I suppose that depends on your cow-orkers. ;) 18:33:10 cfa: in practice it does a lot more than that. 18:33:14 -!- drdo [~drdo@2001:690:2100:1b:1e65:9dff:fe64:8b4b] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:33:24 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:33:34 pjb: Having the stars is easy, provided there is no cloud cover and little light pollution. The flying cars turn out to be a poor idea in practice. 18:33:37 cow-workers, hehe 18:33:58 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 18:33:59 cfa: it has to fully load a system to figure out what the real dependencies are. 18:34:06 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 18:34:10 nyef: not necessarily. Magnets can float around without losing energy. 18:34:14 cfa: some stuff has junk in the .asd that loads things outside of :depends-on, for example. 18:34:15 attila_lendvai: got it. i actually don't really care about performance when splitting (i use ppcre:split instead), because splitting does copying 18:34:20 Xach: ouch, okay. 18:34:32 pjb: Two words: "traffic accidents". 18:34:34 thanks for the explanation 18:34:38 Jasko [~tjasko@170.122.250.3] has joined #lisp 18:34:47 (and for quicklisp!) 18:34:49 -!- brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: brb] 18:34:54 Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:02 gbbopen has its own module manager system that is inscrutable to me 18:35:10 something like split-sequence, but which would call a functions with start and end would more be useful for performance (on vectors) 18:35:27 i'm returning to CL after quite a long time; really need to re-read the asdf docs 18:35:39 brandonz [~brandon@c-76-102-192-48.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:48 For writing my own software, I've gotten by without knowing much about asdf. 18:35:58 stassats: agreed. but it was once a low hanging fruit and it became 2+ times faster on simple-base-strings iirc... 18:36:19 Xach: do you use an alternative system or just drop the deps in by hand? 18:36:35 oh sorry, i completely misread that 18:36:40 cfa: my projects are fairly simple. a list of files, a list of required libraries, and that's it. 18:36:51 nice 18:37:10 it's always a bore to get bogged down in build system details 18:37:12 until ASDF2 came around 18:37:25 nyef: Roads are essentially 1D. If you spread the traffic on 2D, the probabilities of an accident are reduced, and in 3D they're very low. 18:37:29 stassats: actually, I don't miss split-sequence per se from alexandria, but rather the functionality with a better api 18:37:48 i found it easier to understand why asdf2 is the way it is after the talk where each bullet was prefixed with "at ita we had a problem with foo, so in asdf2 it is fixed by changing bar" 18:37:48 pjb: Sure, but the consequences get worse. 18:38:15 We don't know. Depends on the technology. 18:38:28 attila_lendvai: since splitting is a matching operation, it makes more sense to do it in the context of regular expressions 18:38:33 You can't make a flying omelette without breaking a few flying eggs. 18:38:44 tsuru` [~user@68.53.57.241] has joined #lisp 18:38:59 Xach: Ah, but will it be an unidentified flying omelet? 18:39:04 cfa: I use Xach's Quickproject for creating my asdf systems, then "color by numbers" copying existing systems 18:39:13 dlowe: cl-ppcre:split is awfully slow when you just want to split at a char (I'm working on url parsing) 18:39:18 Only if the ID marks are erased. 18:39:51 dlowe: although, it could be special-cased internally and keeping the same API... 18:40:09 attila_lendvai: if your going to speed-check, make use you aren't creating a new scanner object every time 18:41:22 dlowe: sure. iirc the difference is huge even taking care of that 18:42:37 Vivitron: will take a look 18:42:42 That reminds me of an idea I had for speeding up cl:directory by compiling a matcher that doesn't convert a filesystem item into a full CL object unless there's a match... 18:42:58 i'd first try counting how many strings and how long to allocate, and then fill them 18:43:49 or wait, it won't help much 18:43:54 ... is there such a thing as a passive-voiced imperative mood, or am I trying to do something horribly, horribly wrong with english grammar? 18:44:07 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:32 (with-split-sequence (start-var end-var sequence delimiter ...));; don't copy, work on ranges instead 18:44:34 have it be made so! 18:45:00 nyef: "kernel32.dll be damned!" 18:45:13 that's a rather better example than mine 18:46:22 Ah, okay. 18:46:27 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 18:46:55 So, "some-action be-performed" isn't entirely unreasonable? 18:47:07 cfa: I found Xach's blog post about it very helpful: http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html?thread=674335 It got me running with a usable subset of asdf with what felt like a minimal expenditure of brain cells 18:47:21 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:47:40 Vivitron: thanks, yeah -- i was just reading this 18:47:49 (following your suggestion) 18:48:24 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:37 -!- clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:50:55 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:52:06 clop2 [~jared@moat3.centtech.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:12 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.26.131.120.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:27 on clozure common lisp, babel:*default-character-encoding* is :utf-8, but (babel:string-to-octets "é") yields #(195 131 194 169) instead of the expected #(195 169) 18:56:38 am I doing something wrong ? 18:56:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:59 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 18:57:01 paul0 [~paul0@200.146.124.136] has joined #lisp 18:57:14 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has joined #lisp 18:57:32 galdor: your REPL uses some external format, too; maybe not the right one to recognize your é. 18:58:11 ..(babel:string-to-octets (string #\LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_E_WITH_ACUTE)) 18:58:20 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:58:27 I just ran ccl64 in rlwrap, the system uses the en_US.UTF-8 locale 18:58:49 akovalenko: right result with your version 18:59:10 sounds like rlwrap is messing up? 18:59:16 galdor: different canonicalization rules? 18:59:21 Works for me in 64-bit CCL with slime 18:59:23 same problem without rlwrap 18:59:30 Either typeing the letter or using #\ 18:59:33 try rlwrap cat > some-file; type the é, hit ctrl-d and od -x the file 18:59:41 ah then. 18:59:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Client Quit] 19:00:05 galdor: what exactly does the "locale" program report? (paste pls) 19:00:57 http://pastie.org/2651194 19:01:10 looks right 19:02:10 on my utf-8 system, CCL seems to assume latin-1 for terminal encoding.. 19:03:09 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.194] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 19:03:35 yes. start with ccl -K utf-8 to make it use utf-8 for *terminal-io* 19:03:50 Zulu [~Zulu@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:52 ccl::*stdout* => ...ISO-8859-1... 19:04:17 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:36 galdor: -K utf-8 helps 19:04:43 akovalenko: same here 19:04:44 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:04:48 it's unconvenient 19:05:10 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01018c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:10 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:05:18 hi 19:05:31 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 19:05:33 works correctly with -K utf-8 19:05:40 thank you for your help 19:05:57 I hope they fixed locale detection in ccl 1.7 19:06:36 oconnore [~Eric@c-71-233-88-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:06:58 ccl doesn't do locale detection 19:07:42 well with -K utf-8 it works on the repl, but executing encoding tests from utf-8 fail because ccl still doesn't yield UTF-8 as requested 19:08:13 anyway my zmq binding will have a "partial support" mark for ccl 19:09:34 galdor: effect of -K utf-8 is persistent across Lisp image dumps (CCL:SAVE-APPLICATION) 19:09:40 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:09:54 galdor: expose a binary interface as well. 19:10:22 yep you can use strings or byte arrays 19:10:29 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:45 galdor: (setf ccl:*default-external-format* :utf-8) 19:13:10 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:11 akovalenko: same issues with that one 19:13:13 thank you anyway 19:13:51 akovalenko: the terminal stream is already open, I guess 19:13:51 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:13:59 akovalenko:  with an external format 19:14:31 anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770A82.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 19:14:42 i.e. the external format must be fixed before that stream is opened 19:14:58 antifuchs: -K affects the terminal, but not OPEN, LOAD, ...., while setting ccl:*default-external-format* is used for future streams.. 19:15:01 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:15:09 yeah 19:15:46 francogrex [~user@109.130.137.79] has joined #lisp 19:15:48 how does sbcl deal with that? 19:16:49 once uppon a time someone came up with a nice defconstant substitute that bombed less often. I can't seem to find it. Anyone knows where it is? 19:17:14 prxq: I believe alexandria has defconstant-eqx 19:17:20 prxq: sbcl tries to do the right thing (locale-dependent) 19:17:48 pkhuong: thx 19:18:28 german speaking translator needed, this file (pdf) does it announce anything interesting (at least the first paragraph?): http://109.130.137.79 19:19:19 So I've got some code, thus: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125127 -- of course it doesn't work, because "db" isn't defined in select-id. I figure I could use a lambda and pass db into the query from inside ooobot-query, but that doesn't seem like a good solution. Thoughts? 19:19:46 -!- Cam [~Cam@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 19:20:01 francogrex: r u phishing us? 19:20:04 Oladon: why not clsql:*default-database* ? 19:20:28 francogrex: it's highly interesting, I'm sure (: 19:20:30 akovalenko: It seemed like better form to use the name, but maybe that's a false perception? 19:20:32 prxq: what? 19:20:35 (but I don't know what you're interested in) 19:20:37 Oladon: or, more generally, special variables (along with an optional/keyword argument) 19:21:13 francogrex: directing people to a pdf file of unknown origin at a URL pointing to a host without a dns entry? 19:21:14 vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 19:21:14 vervic_ [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has joined #lisp 19:21:21 francogrex: .pdf is a very nice exploit vector (: 19:21:24 it's my own pc 19:21:34 Oladon: you're passing (clsql:select ...) form into ooobot-query, so it would be executed? that's not going to work... 19:21:47 francogrex: heh - anyway. it documents the algorithms used in a program called rubin 19:21:49 francogrex: ok, then. But it wants plugins. 19:21:52 akovalenko: :( 19:22:04 it seems to be about multiply-connected bayesian networks 19:22:19 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-39-198.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 19:22:31 it says the inference algorithm was written in lisp, and the gui was done in tcl/tk 19:22:32 antifuchs: rubin is made in lisp it seems and it's a RDBMS... 19:22:39 ok 19:23:00 -!- vervic_ [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 19:23:03 it does seem interesting after all 19:23:22 Oladon: 1. get rid of ooobot-query, 2. just use (clsql:select ...) in your SELECT-ID, without explicit :database argument (so it defaults to clsql:*default-database*).. 19:23:35 it's part of someone's thesis I guess 19:23:49 akovalenko: I want ooobot-query so that I can use other queries... 19:24:25 prxq: it's just a pdf file so need a pdf viewer that's all 19:24:28 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.180.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:25:10 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:25:17 Oladon: that's bad design, but if you insist, let ooobot-query accept a one-argument function, and use it like (ooobot-query (lambda (db) (clsql:select ... :database db))) 19:25:23 francogrex: the thing is that it is embedded in an object tag. You could as well have done http://ip/out.pdf 19:25:29 akovalenko: What's a better design? 19:25:43 ok I will 19:25:47 I'm annoyed by realizing that mozilla doesn't say *what* plugin is missing 19:26:00 francogrex: it's ok :-) 19:26:10 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:26:35 ok I suppose you saw it now.. so it's nice that someone did this program in lisp 19:26:39 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:26:46 situ [~quassel@223.180.39.140] has joined #lisp 19:26:50 I think I will contact the author for source code 19:27:09 francogrex: the comments of the code are in german too 19:27:44 I suppose this is just a small example (piece) of the real code 19:27:54 Oladon: you need exactly one connect/disconnect per HTTP query, right? (clsql:with-database (clsql:*default-database*) ..) makes your connection the default one for the duration of WITH-DATABASE body.. 19:27:56 yeah in german 19:28:33 akovalenko: Oh, I see... so all the connection parameters are stored in default-database 19:28:41 Oladon: what's important here is "for the duration of..", as opposed to "lexically within..(that you could erroneously expect)" 19:28:45 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:28:58 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:29:07 francogrex: from what i can see it is an implementation of an example. 19:29:15 francogrex: the actual code is not there 19:29:47 yes, but I'll write an email to the author see if he can share program and code 19:29:49 francogrex: the software seems to be "netica" 19:30:03 what's netica? 19:30:11 Kron [~Kron@129.97.120.142] has joined #lisp 19:30:16 akovalenko: sure, I understand the difference 19:30:33 seems to be a company that sells software dealing with bayesian networks 19:31:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:31:40 -!- Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:33:14 hmm... that's more difficult to get then :(... anyway the whole thesis is here: http://109.130.137.79/thesis.pdf 19:34:40 francogrex: I see 19:34:41 prxq: you are german? 19:34:49 francogrex: more or less :-) 19:35:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 19:35:46 ok 19:35:56 -!- mickp [~mickp@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:37:07 mickp [~mickp@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 19:37:14 -!- mickp [~mickp@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Client Quit] 19:37:29 francogrex: there is a strong lisp group in the saarland university. Contacting them will probably work. 19:37:56 gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-190-151.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:58 i mean, lisp is used a lot there. 19:38:20 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 19:38:41 -!- gavinharper [~gavinharp@dyn3-82-128-190-151.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:40:50 prxq: yes I got it the first time, I didn't think they would be a group of superheroes using lisp :) Maybe I'll contact them to see what interesting projects they have 19:41:25 francogrex: what is your area? 19:42:20 There is also in belgium, (pascal costanza is based here I think) 19:45:31 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 19:47:48 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 19:48:56 francogrex: you'd be surprized the number of lispers who code in underwear... 19:49:44 wait, wut? lisp in belgium? where? 19:50:49 anvandare: http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&gl=us&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=114830829398919898492.000461fa38297b8417186&ll=35.46067,16.875&spn=149.466634,295.3125&z=0&source=embed 19:52:05 lisp in amsterdam soon 19:52:14 *Xach* gets nervous about speaking for 100 people 19:52:33 I only see 4 people 19:53:00 Xach: imagine they're naked. 19:53:01 Xach: i look forward to see you doing that. :-) 19:53:18 anvandare: http://eclm.eurolisp.org/ 19:53:36 anvandare: what 4 people? 19:53:45 I will give shouts out to M.S. Mommer 19:53:58 francogrex: the link pjb gave 19:55:25 the poor map 19:55:28 *Xach* retires it from planet lisp 19:55:34 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 19:57:17 Why? Promote it! 19:57:26 Let's all put a pin on it! 19:57:30 pjb: it's a bad tool for a good idea. 19:57:40 I would be happy to try again with a better tool. 19:58:14 yes but http://www.p-cos.net/coordinates.html and also: 19:59:59 some other group in the university of Leuven I think 20:00:06 Anyone aware if the eclm2011 talks are going to be recorded? 20:00:15 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-67.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:00:21 GrayMagiker [~steve@174.56.88.247] has joined #lisp 20:00:36 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 20:03:45 an awful lot of lispers seem to be drowning in the pacific of the coast of California 20:04:37 kpreid [~kpreid@OITADMI-93APQSM.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 20:05:18 Guthur: They're getting a head start, for when the western half of California finally falls into the ocean. 20:05:20 hah... a mass suicide in the pacific 20:06:19 ... Is it called that because it isn't particularly violent? 20:08:28 maybe it's that new shark sanctuary 20:09:03 ...you need to feed them after all, and parenthesis could make very post modern tooth picks 20:10:06 -!- situ [~quassel@223.180.39.140] has quit [Quit: http://quassel-irc.org - Chat comfortably. Anywhere.] 20:11:35 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 20:12:17 Temp [~quassel@223.180.39.140] has joined #lisp 20:13:50 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: under the bit stream] 20:15:01 francogrex: so you use bayesian networks for day trading? 20:15:33 Does anyone know if it's possible to reduce the size of a core image in SBCL by deallocating objects (such as functions, symbols, strings, etc.)? If so, how would one go about doing this? 20:16:04 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:16:05 Remove references to objects. Call the garbage collector. save-lisp-and-die. 20:16:23 Zulu: It is possible, but there's a rather high lower limit on core sizes. 20:16:53 prxq: I'm into statistical analysis mainly 20:17:55 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD121.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:47 drdo [~drdo@89-180-182-122.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 20:18:55 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp3741.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:19:17 pjb: Say I wanted to remove the documentation string for the 'if' special operator. Could you give an example of doing so? 20:19:30 nyef: Thank you, any estimates as to how large this is? 20:19:31 Zulu: (setf (documentation ...) nil) 20:19:39 Zulu: Only about 40-odd megs, I think. 20:19:41 No, I couldn't. I don't know sbcl well enough. 20:19:51 But you could read the sources and try things out. 20:20:09 istr that cmucl had a "small core" mode, once upon a time. 20:20:15 nyef: Doing that and then calling documentation again will still pull up the original string 20:20:34 Zulu: Really? Neat! 20:20:45 In that case, you'll probably have to do some digging. 20:21:08 i don't think there is much to save there. 20:21:09 hm. what is preferred style for checking multiple recursion termination conditions in functions? a long cond, or (when ... (return-from ...)) 20:21:11 nyef: Yes, it's kind of disapointing because it does so even for user-defined documentation 20:21:30 personally I think that return-from is tidier. 20:21:52 I come from a C background so I do like to toss a 20:22:00 I have something resembling a proof-of-concept for small-core images, but it's the sort of thing that breaks so many rules and so much functionality that I hesitate to recommend even looking at it. 20:22:02 (if condition (return-from)) ... 20:22:18 Zulu: hehehe, same here :) 20:22:38 zvrba: Checking multiple recursion termination conditions at the same time? I like OR and AND. 20:22:52 i'm going through sicp, and they use only cond.. and it looks UGLY! 20:22:53 -!- Temp [~quassel@223.180.39.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:22:59 nyef: sequentially, as in list merging. 20:23:11 zvrba: paste the code? 20:23:14 nyef: (when (null l1) (return-from .. l2)) ... 20:23:20 yeah, this gets contextual. 20:23:54 zvrba: I wouldn't use return-from in that case.. But yes please paste the code 20:24:08 I think the answer will possibly wind up being "you're doing it wrong". 20:24:08 Xach: i haven't typed in the whole function yet. but here's the start from sicp: (cond ((null l1) l2) ((null l2) l1) (else ...long piece of code...)) 20:24:18 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:24:28 zvrba: that looks better to me than when/return most of the time. 20:24:45 zvrba: also, if you have a lot of return-froms, far better to use a (block nil ... (return foo) ...) 20:24:49 Xach: really? even if the else-part is like 15 lines of code? 20:25:06 zvrba: I'd have to see a real example to say. 20:25:23 + let inside the else part, and another cond inside, so indentation goes wholly crazy 20:25:36 zvrba: Agh I feel your pain buddy 20:25:39 Xach: if you have SICP: function add-terms in section 2.5.3 20:25:47 If the structure looks crazy, the thinking might be too. 20:25:51 (page 206 in 2nd edition) 20:25:55 zvrba: I don't. Got an URL? 20:26:01 Also, CL is not scheme. 20:26:04 ah! wait! yes, i'll find it 20:26:15 sorry, must run. good luck. 20:26:16 -!- vervic [~vervic@84.114.246.246] has left #lisp 20:26:20 Xach: i'm rewriting it in CL. and scheme structure looks crazy 20:26:44 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-189-195.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:26:51 Xach: http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-18.html#%_sec_2.5.3 20:26:57 Xach: search for definition of add-terms 20:27:10 it looks... overkill. 20:27:28 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:28:34 *zvrba* pokes nyef 20:28:54 It kind of looks reasonably enough to me 20:29:05 early termination then the meat 20:30:09 Guthur: The problem is that the early termination is set is such a way that it causes indentation of everything else. Though if I were writing that I'd bring each cond case down a line and indent it just one step past the cond itself 20:30:11 but return-from is also early termination. why write a long cond vs. that? 20:30:18 Mmm. I'm not quite a fan of the doubly-nested structure, but I'm not sure if/how to improve it. 20:30:36 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp3741.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:31:01 (personally, i think that special cases -- and recursion termination is that -- should be handled conspicuously) 20:31:24 If you look at what the stuff in the let is doing, it doesn't seem unreasonable to suggest splitting that off into its own function 20:31:33 at least to me 20:31:42 Mmm. But they're mutually-recursive. 20:32:02 oof 20:32:06 marsell [~marsell@120.20.162.240] has joined #lisp 20:32:15 this looks like the perfect exercise for learning iterate macros ;) 20:32:27 When loading elephant, I get this error: no symbol named "SLOT-DEFINITION-READER-FUNCTION" in "SB-PCL" 20:32:36 I'm on sbcl 1.0.50 20:32:58 kami: I think I saw something about that recently... either on sbcl-devel, planet-lisp, or launchpad. 20:33:07 In the sbcl sources, I only find slot-definition-readers 20:33:51 nyef: thank you for the exact location ;-) 20:34:09 kami: Working on narrowing it down now. 20:34:23 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:34:44 scheme looks like such a verbose language :-( 20:35:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@OITADMI-93APQSM.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:35:33 Hrm, no, it was something about a failed AVER: NSLOTDS that I'm remembering. 20:35:40 nyef: has this one to do with it http://www.mail-archive.com/elephant-devel@common-lisp.net/msg02517.html ? 20:36:16 Oh, good grief. An old-school diff. 20:36:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.68.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:58 That might have something to do with it, I suppose. Never really looked at elephant before. 20:37:03 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:37:18 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 20:37:41 I like those old-school diffs. Are you not too young to be so nostalgic about them? :) 20:38:27 I can be nostalgic about walking uphill to and from school through snow in bare feet, but those diffs just plain sucked. 20:38:41 -!- jdz [~jdz@host37-108-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:39:13 ok, would iterate be suitable for implementing merging of two lists? 20:39:27 if I don't want to go down the recursive route? 20:41:11 Okay, my current thinking on the ADD-TERMS thing is (define (add-terms L1 L2) (cond ((empty-termlist? L1) L2) ((empty-termlist? L2) L1) (else (add-one-term-and-continue L1 L2 add-terms)))), with add-one-term-and-continue left as an exercise for the reader. 20:41:46 -!- Zulu [~Zulu@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:42:01 It's still recursive, but one function doesn't have to know the identity of the other /a priori/. 20:42:05 Zulu [~Zulu@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:14 nyef: why would that be bad? 20:42:22 what's problematic with mutual recursion? 20:42:40 Mmm. Sometimes nothing, sometimes you have scope problems. 20:42:43 also, if add-one-term-and-continue is in labels, you wouldn't need the add-terms argument? 20:43:07 Yeah, fine, you can do it that way. 20:43:22 You're complaining about indentation and want to dump it in a labels...? That seems kind of self-defeating. 20:43:29 For that matter, you could use flet, since there won't be mutual recursion within the same scope. 20:43:37 nyef: mm. 20:43:44 (defmethod add-terms ((L1 NULL) ...)...) ;; and so on 20:43:46 Bike: It's not the indentation, it's the nesting within a single function. 20:43:46 :) 20:43:52 Bike: indentation will be decreased when labels is done! 20:43:58 nyef: Sorry I disconnected, why are you passing in the symbol add-terms? 20:44:11 Zulu: I was thinking of them as toplevel functions. 20:44:20 With a define-before-reference requirement, 20:44:23 Not sure why. 20:44:35 nyef: Roger roger 20:45:02 On the whole, actually, the original formulation is possibly the most reasonable. 20:45:11 Bike: but I was mainly asking opinion on return(-from). in C I like to dispense with special cases first, like if (recursion_ended) return base_case; 20:45:16 It's disconcerting to see the nested cond thing, but... 20:45:21 Bike: instead of having a long chain of if/else-statements. 20:45:56 H4ns_ [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 20:46:12 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Disconnected by services] 20:46:17 -!- H4ns_ is now known as H4ns 20:46:19 Xach: sure. 20:46:31 zvrba: I agree with you there, but as I said before, I have a pretty big C and Java background which influences me here and there. Meaning: Don't take my word for it haha 20:46:32 Using return-from certainly is valid here, but I think it's slightly /less/ so than the COND. 20:46:32 HG`` [~HG@p579F7B69.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:06 nyef: mm, ok. 20:47:43 nyef: It turns out that (setf (documentation ...) nil) restores the original documentation string, rather than set the documentation string to nil 20:47:49 i dislike python because I hate significant whitespace. and now indentation is haunting me again. oh the irony ;) 20:47:55 With the return-from thing, you have to evaluate the condition and then the consequent. 20:48:09 nyef: hmmm? 20:48:11 With the COND, you know it's a cond-structure, so you just have to evaluate the condition. 20:48:24 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:48:32 nyef: evaluate consequent? which consequent? 20:48:41 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-045.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:49 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 20:49:00 zvrba, return-from is the consequent 20:49:01 Zulu: Okay, it's probably in the function debug-info structure... or as one of the literals in the code-object. 20:49:11 if i understand correct 20:49:18 zvrba: When you have (when condition (return-from ...)), the return-from is the consequent. 20:49:23 Guthur: oh. i don't think of return-from as evaluating something. 20:49:42 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 20:49:49 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC055EE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:49:58 Xach: http://paste.lisp.org/+2OJZ 20:50:13 It technically evaluates its second argument, but I was saying YOU have to evaluate the return-from, and my implication was for its effect on flow-control in the function. 20:50:34 Xach: you need to add your oauth keys. it listens on port 3884 for status requests, i use that for monitoring the service 20:50:51 nyef: aha. ya, i understand that one. the age-old discussion about whether functions should have single point of exit. 20:51:32 Multiple points of exit are fine. It's when each point of exit goes to a different /place/ that you get into trouble. 20:51:58 what do you mean by "place"? 20:52:06 it always returns to the caller..? 20:52:14 Yes, exactly. 20:52:18 (if you don't consider exceptions) 20:52:25 silenius [~silenius@i59F7603D.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 20:52:27 -!- ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:52:58 exceptions go to the caller as well, just may not stop there, hehe 20:53:23 anyway. gotta sleep now. thanks everybody. 20:53:28 But what if you had some construct which did a return-from to an arbitrary place in the stack and then called another function. 20:53:45 SerdarArgic [u2969@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-svdbtxozktovunsg] has joined #lisp 20:54:00 dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-136.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 20:54:01 Holy cow: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125122 20:54:02 nyef: evil! 20:54:36 Right. That's what the whole "single-point-of-exit" thing was about. 20:56:21 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-213-045.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:56:51 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-olhadtemjjtxeqdv] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:58:14 nyef: do you know how to change expiration on a lisppaste paste? 20:58:25 wallrace [~jon@142.157.205.48] has joined #lisp 20:58:44 ehu: Not offhand, but it shouldn't be too hard. 20:59:01 "i pasted these secrets, help!" ? 20:59:01 ehu: Have a look through the... persistent-pastes source file, I think it is. 20:59:10 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d01018c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:59:17 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:59:27 H4ns: That's probably easier, I think there's a delete-paste interface already. 20:59:46 H4ns: nah. "I pasted an expiring paste, but now the link even appeared on REDDIT. Please unexpire it. HELP!" 20:59:59 ehu: The basic approach would be to get your hands on the actual paste object, frob the slot, then force it out to disk again. 21:00:21 guther [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-dvovknrkkdmnzoap] has joined #lisp 21:00:21 hmpf 21:00:29 Do you want me to try to do it? 21:00:36 (I'll need the paste number, of course.) 21:01:54 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:02:41 if you could, yea, please! 21:02:45 paste number is: 21:02:58 125122 21:03:19 nyef: can you also remove 124216? 21:03:40 I asked for its deletion a month ago 21:04:12 nyef: I've got someone asking for removal of another paste for months as well. 21:04:24 do you do post administration? 21:04:34 I thought only gking had a key there. 21:04:39 ltriant [~ltriant@110.174.168.43] has joined #lisp 21:04:41 That comment I posted seemed to become popular. So I asked ehu if he could remove the time limit for posterity. 21:04:44 Okay, paste 125122 no longer expirable. 21:04:54 thanks! 21:05:12 I don't actually have a key for the admin interface so far as I remember. 21:05:30 -!- lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:05:52 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:05:59 ok. I'll have to actually get myself set up with that then. 21:06:10 Okay, looks like the magic is (lisppaste::kill-paste ). 21:06:21 oh. that's easier. 21:06:43 Yeah, just attach to the screen, find the REPL (should be screen 0), and kill. 21:07:37 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:41 ehu: you could test it with 124216 :) 21:08:04 I'll have a go 21:08:05 ehu: I'll watch while you try it. 21:09:12 Remember, become lisppaste, then screen -x to attach to the screen, and C-a d to detach. 21:10:02 Cam [~Cam@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 21:10:21 kami: done 21:11:31 weird. that paste number doesn't turn up anything. 21:11:46 Uh-oh. 21:11:52 Just hit the debugger. 21:12:12 back to the repl 21:12:30 Oh, you were trying to delete that paste by number, and that's how it happened? 21:12:31 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:12:39 yep. 21:12:44 well, another paste. 21:12:52 one for which removal was long requested. 21:12:59 but I never got to it. 21:13:11 disconnected again 21:13:21 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:13:21 Looks like someone else got to it or something. 21:13:27 yea. 21:13:39 Does anyone know of a distributed messaging library? So far I have looked at cl-muproc, erlisp, and erlang-in-lisp. 21:13:44 ehu: thank you. Mine is gone. 21:14:07 the internet does not forget 21:14:14 if i have a function's name as an argument, how can i call that function from the argument? 21:14:19 i've been playing around with stuff like (defun myfunction (fun1 x) (funcall fun1 x)) 21:14:20 oconnore, cl-zeromq 21:14:34 and then (myfunction oddp 3) would return true, but I can't get it to work. any help is appreciated thanks. 21:15:00 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.176] has joined #lisp 21:15:04 (i'm more of a c programmer getting into lisp sorry) 21:15:07 -!- silenius [~silenius@i59F7603D.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:08 Guthur: Cool, I'll check it out 21:15:08 puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:15:34 Guthur: actually I just released a new binding :) 21:15:37 wallrace: You might need to (myfunction #'oddp 3) or (myfunction 'oddp 3). 21:15:40 https://github.com/galdor/cl-zmq 21:15:56 wallrace: The former passes a function by value, the latter by name. 21:16:01 I didn't get any answer for the author of the old one, had to fix several issues 21:16:07 galdor, cool, I shall check it out 21:16:22 and since I don't like to rely on dead code, I wrote a new binding 21:16:33 hi, a quick one: how do I map over rows in #2A((1 2) (3 4)) pls? 21:17:24 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:17:30 puchacz: I think the answer might be "with difficulty". 21:17:38 puchacz: What do you define as a row? :) 21:17:44 galdor, I've been a little tempted to rewrite the binding myself 21:17:59 galdor, did you base it on zeromq 3.x 21:18:01 Isn't there a row-major-aref function? I think that provides a canonical definition. 21:18:04 puchacz: Use loop. 21:18:05 well it's done 21:18:07 ...or 2.x 21:18:12 Guthur: 2.x 21:18:18 guys, loop instead of map. 21:18:20 ok 21:18:25 I need it for a stable project 21:18:39 galdor, you should check out 3.x, there is API changes and it will be the future 21:18:40 I'd be happy to have a 3.0 branch 21:18:53 already did :) 21:18:57 nyef: that didn't work :( it returned nil when it should have been true (passed an odd number) 21:19:11 galdor, cool 21:19:40 If you want to add a 3.0 branch, don't hesitate 21:19:42 puchacz: You can still use the collect keyword if you need map-like functionality. 21:19:55 wallrace: I don't know what to tell you, I'm afraid. Was it at least an improvement? 21:19:55 I intend to improve tests and performances in the future 21:20:31 Okay, I have a CVS directory with local changes. How do I find out if it's up-to-date with respect to upstream without actually changing anything? 21:20:42 nyef: somewhat haha, i was hoping someone would know what i was doing but no worries. it's just for a little side project anyway thanks 21:20:48 (If it's not up-to-date, I don't want to actually change things.) 21:20:51 galdor, there might be a slight naming conflict with what is in Quicklisp already 21:20:52 jtza8: thx 21:21:05 galdor, cl-zmq seems to be taken 21:21:14 puchacz: np 21:21:25 :nyef you actually helped clear up what # does too though so it's not a loss :P 21:21:29 wallrace: Well (defun myfunction (function argument) (funcall function argument)) should lead to (myfunction #'oddp 3) => T 21:21:39 galdor, which is odd considering the other one seemed to be called cl-zeromq 21:21:56 cheezus [~Adium@bas2-toronto36-2925494721.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:22:26 galdor, oh wait that's just the git not the system, might be ok 21:22:30 Guthur: the old one used cl-zmq, but the asdf system was :zeromq, and the package was :zeromq with :zmq as nickname 21:22:30 hagish [~hagish@p5498323E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:45 so now I use zmq everywhere, that's simpler 21:23:00 wallrace: Mmm. # is the lead-in for a number of different bits of magic, selected based on the non-numeric character following (numeric characters between the two are allowed to have meaning as well). 21:23:01 isn't there any built-in function in cl for flattening a possibly nested list? 21:23:13 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-136.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:23:21 cool, well oconnore, check out galdor's version 21:23:25 dRbiG: No, because it's not a particularly common thing to want to do outside of homework assignments. 21:23:26 dRbiG: alexandria:flatten 21:23:32 nyef: not true. 21:23:56 Okay, "no, because it's too useful as a homework assignment." 21:24:02 nyef: i thought that someone here will give the answer along these lines :) 21:24:31 i guess then that what i want to do is probably not the best way to do it 21:24:38 maybe so 21:24:41 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 21:24:56 -!- Kron [~Kron@129.97.120.142] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 21:25:30 Is there a tutorial or something for using CFFI struct types for return values? 21:25:43 (in defcfun) 21:26:03 nyef: alright so when i did a completely barebones function like yours it worked, haha gimme a little more time to play around thanks 21:26:12 wallrace: Sure. Have fun. 21:26:13 ... i.e. Memory allocation done for you. 21:26:29 jtza8: not in the mainline yet. 21:27:52 pkhuong: Ok. 21:28:29 pkhuong: How would I handle a situation like that then? 21:28:35 oconnore: You still there? What sort of distributed messaging do you want to do? 21:28:56 jtza8: I write wrappers in C that have an addition pointer parameter. 21:29:05 reb`: hey, I'm still here 21:29:10 *an additional 21:29:32 jtza8: that way I can pass a pointer to a pre-allocated struct, and the wrapper stores the return value there. 21:29:45 Hrm. Okay, preliminary analysis on the bot situation says that at some point cl-irc was updated. 21:30:33 Guthur` [~user@212.183.128.41] has joined #lisp 21:30:49 -!- puchacz [~puchacz@87-194-5-99.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:30:53 reb`: I'm basically just need to exchange strings of bytes with another instance that may live locally or on another computer. I also need to be able to register handlers on ACKs, send NACKs, etc. (although I can define that functionality myself if it isn't there) 21:31:16 pkhuong: Thanks, worked out ok that way, just thought there might be an easier way. (Good to know it's on its way though) 21:31:36 -!- cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:32:52 oconnore: If your demands are simple (sounds like they may be), check out http://github.com/brown/swank-client 21:33:18 The Swank protocol that Emacs/Slime uses has a remote-eval feature. 21:33:34 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.41] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:33:34 oconnore: or if you like the big butts, use hunchentoot and drakma 21:33:43 The swank client code allows you to connect to a remote lisp and evaluate forms there. 21:33:58 if you what the what what? 21:34:26 antifuchs: i was half-jokingly suggesting to use http as comms protocol. 21:34:41 H4ns: That can work too. 21:34:56 reb`: depending on your needs, it may actually make a lot of sense. 21:34:57 -!- Guthur` is now known as Guthur 21:35:28 reb`: Thanks, good idea H4ns: I think I will go for something a little lighter :) 21:35:49 oconnore: understood. that was the big butts part of my suggestion. 21:35:54 rpg_ [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 21:36:00 ah, haha 21:36:01 H4ns: yep 21:38:06 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.137.79] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:28 reb`: wow, who at Google is doing common-lisp dev? 21:38:29 -!- ngz [~user@201.144.80.79.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:38:43 oconnore: ITA 21:38:44 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:38:52 ehu: ah 21:39:11 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has joined #lisp 21:39:19 Norvig in secret. 21:39:23 Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has joined #lisp 21:39:31 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-248-123.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:49 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:40:36 felideon: Norvig isn't often that secretive about his love of the parenthesis 21:40:47 -!- rpg_ [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:41:16 but maybe he does python or something now 21:41:56 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:42:22 Continuing with analysis, it looks like user tracking is getting messed up. 21:42:23 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:42:31 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-147-112.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:45:10 nyef: thanks for the help! 21:46:21 drdo` [~drdo@89.180.120.109] has joined #lisp 21:46:28 -!- wallrace [~jon@142.157.205.48] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:47:28 -!- drdo [~drdo@89-180-182-122.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:47:54 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:00 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:48:00 And once again, I've hit the limit for the amount of poking around in lisppaste guts that I have time and patience for today. 21:48:20 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:48:26 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:48:45 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:49:30 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:51:04 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD121.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 21:51:07 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:16 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:51:44 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 21:52:00 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 21:52:19 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-180-56.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:55:18 djanatyn [~user@173-13-139-236-sfba.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:55:50 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 21:56:15 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 21:57:05 Is there a good package to look at for an example of how to integrate tests? I've seen many different styles. 21:57:39 And do they not all provide an example of how to integrate them? 21:57:54 Pick a package with a style of test you like, see how they do it, and replicate that. 21:58:51 That's like asking for a recommendation at a restaurant and being told to try everything and decide what you like. 21:59:16 Not quite, but somewhat. 21:59:22 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 21:59:41 How about this? Find three different styles, try each of them, and see what you like best? 21:59:48 Since there are so many divergent styles, I was just curious if someone had one they thought was exeplary. 21:59:51 austinh: I'm a huge fan of using cucumber for integration/API tests 21:59:58 exemplary 22:00:07 (so much that I made a package called clucumber to interface with lisp) 22:00:11 antifuchs: one thing - could you post some real-world examples? 22:00:25 (for clucumber) 22:00:29 there are some real-world examples in http://github.com/antifuchs/cl-beanstalk/ 22:00:34 I'm working on more 22:00:43 (rather, that's the whole test suite) (-: 22:01:56 antifuchs: I hadn't seen that one. I've been using fiveam, but I wasn't sure how to include it in my system. 22:02:09 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:02:16 I've been creating a separate system def. for the test package. 22:02:19 including it is pretty easy, usually: make a separate -tests asdf system 22:02:24 and depend on fiveam 22:02:29 (ah, you do that (-:) 22:02:47 Ok, that's what I've been doing. I'm beginning to think that I asked this same question about a year ago. 22:03:02 haha. yeah, it seems this is still the best way to do it 22:03:24 also, put the two systems in two .asd files, each named after the system they define 22:03:27 that should be all 22:04:23 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:06:31 wildnux [~shekhar@pool-96-226-21-221.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:53 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@72.168.55.98] has joined #lisp 22:07:31 i am very very new to lisp and want to print out "Name: foo" and "Age: bar" in multilines in lisp, how do i do it? 22:07:50 foo and bar are returned from a function 22:07:55 Kron [~Kron@69.166.23.250] has joined #lisp 22:08:18 wildnux: Have a look at FORMAT. (format t "Name: ~A~%Age: ~A~%" "Charles" 12) 22:08:40 nyef: thank you, I definitely will :) 22:08:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:11:34 wildnux: I recommend reading http://gigamonkeys.com/book 22:12:27 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-71-233-88-220.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:29 -!- Oladon [~Oladon@np34.co.returnpath.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:12:37 are there any existing GnuTLS / any other LGPL-or-better TLSv1.2 bindings available? 22:13:02 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:14:21 p_l|backup: thank you. I never came across that book even after searching a lot with google. I did came up with a few others though 22:14:40 -!- hagish [~hagish@p5498323E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:15:20 and came accoss that book when I searched for format as recommended by nyef 22:15:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:15:35 mathrick: no, AFAIK there are no implementations of TLS 1.2 at all 22:15:45 GnuTLS has one 22:16:05 and it's LGPL, so it fits my needs 22:16:11 but I don't see any bindings 22:16:15 mathrick is alive! 22:16:41 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:17:05 that I am 22:17:21 unlike certain steve, har har 22:19:15 too soon :) 22:19:27 too soon what? 22:19:52 elurin [~user@85.99.35.200] has joined #lisp 22:19:58 steve 22:20:00 ;-) 22:20:09 do you know the new joke 22:20:10 mathrick: making jokes about recently dead people is considered by some to be in bad taste. 22:20:43 You know how people see their life Flash in front of their eyes before they die? Steve did not since apple does not support Flash. 22:20:55 Xach: I know, but it's kinda hard to resist given the level of idiotic "Steve was the most charitable person on earth" comments floating around the net 22:21:11 killerboy: Tell that to the camera on the iPhone. 22:21:11 though I won't take it any further 22:22:08 nyef: i do not own one 22:22:29 mathrick: Resist. 22:22:48 killerboy: I'm not completely certain that the hardware supports it, but there's support for a flash in the camera APIs. 22:22:52 shaggy- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:21 the onion does an excellent job of joking, but not at the target's expense 22:23:33 http://www.theonion.com/articles/last-american-who-knew-what-the-fuck-he-was-doing,26268/ 22:23:53 nyef: ok 22:24:13 there is no target ;-) 22:24:29 tempire: please stop, it's OT 22:24:29 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:24:38 (The reason I'm not certain the hardware supports it is that my iPod Touch doesn't appear to, but I don't have an actual iPhone to test with.) 22:24:39 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Be yourself, no matter what they say.] 22:26:47 Xach: I'm resisting as we speak! 22:27:49 hello. how can I fetch print-object method? (find-method #'method '() (mapcar 'find-class '(myclass >)) 22:28:03 -!- HG`` [~HG@p579F7B69.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG``] 22:28:10 shaggy-: T 22:28:22 shaggy-: the default for unspecialized positional parameters is T 22:28:33 shaggy-: out of curiosity, why do you want to do that? 22:28:41 (I say "default", but it's the class they're specialized to by definition) 22:28:49 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-52-174.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:52 thanks I'll try t 22:29:50 nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.184.103] has joined #lisp 22:29:54 Xach I have test-class macro that expands to several things, among them checking if print-object and a couple of other methods exist 22:30:03 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@72.168.55.98] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:31:10 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.180.200] has joined #lisp 22:31:12 gotcha. one common use of find-method like that is for remove-method, but slime has a slicker UI for that case. 22:33:11 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-123-220.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:21 That slime-tip about exporting/unexporting symbols with C-c x and C-u C-c x is awesome. 22:35:33 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:36:30 schell [~schellsci@75-101-46-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:11 so many great tips 22:39:37 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:40:37 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.114.47] has joined #lisp 22:41:50 I love the whitespace/duplicate-elimination tip for the repl 22:43:20 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:43:43 -!- fluffycms [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:44:48 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.208.219.19] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:59 -!- cheezus [~Adium@bas2-toronto36-2925494721.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:46:42 fluffycms [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 22:47:11 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:47:20 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:47:38 ignas [~ignas@user-46-112-167-216.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:47:58 dmiles_afk [dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:48:08 -!- dmiles_afk [dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:49:22 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.153.241] has quit [Quit: rme] 22:50:08 dmiles_afk [dmiles@dsl-173-239-81-226.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:50:48 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.29.100] has joined #lisp 22:51:15 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:51:24 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.176] has quit [Quit: kpreid] 22:53:30 Hunh. I think I know what I'm going to do to try and diagnose the bots. I'm going to rsync the source for the bots out to where I can run it locally, and if it still fails in the same way I can instrument it without risking damage to the paste site. 22:53:41 And I'm going to do it some time that isn't tonight. 22:58:18 H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has joined #lisp 22:59:37 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.176] has joined #lisp 22:59:40 Right, I'm gone. 22:59:43 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:00:18 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:01:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:04:50 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 23:05:08 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:26 -!- Guthur [~user@212.183.128.41] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:06:32 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: good night] 23:07:36 -!- alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Quit: alanpearce] 23:08:59 oconnore [~liveuser@n250-25.mtholyoke.edu] has joined #lisp 23:10:29 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:10:49 zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:12:16 how do i print a list (foo bar) as a string foo bar using format? 23:12:45 wildnux: (format nil "~{~A~^ ~}" '(foo bar)) 23:12:52 (format t "~{~A ~}" (list foo bar)) 23:12:58 too late 23:12:58 (format t "~{~a~^ ~}" '(foo bar)) 23:13:05 ~^ is the correct one 23:13:21 (will not add the space, when there are no more items to consume) 23:13:23 wildnux: or maybe (format nil "~(~{~A~^ ~}~)" '(foo bar)) 23:13:34 dang! 23:13:41 wildnux: ~(~) will lower-case the symbols. 23:13:44 looks like mustache man 23:13:52 wildnux: you be 23:13:53 t 23:14:03 (pprint-linear nil '(foo bar) nil) 23:14:10 format is a semi-strange wart 23:15:28 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-147-112.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:15:32 akovalenko: not bad 23:15:39 akovalenko: except for the downcasing :) 23:16:02 (let ((*print-case* :downcase)) ...) 23:16:12 akovalenko: ok. 23:16:36 Fade: warts are nice. 23:17:00 well, considering format and loop, it's assertable that they're sometimes powerful. 23:17:09 but they're damn peculiar in this case. 23:22:38 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3FC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:25:55 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:27 -!- oconnore [~liveuser@n250-25.mtholyoke.edu] has quit [Quit: oconnore] 23:28:43 -!- SerdarArgic is now known as armchairanalyst 23:30:18 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 23:37:00 rme [~rme@50.43.153.241] has joined #lisp 23:38:32 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:40:12 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:45:51 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:45:59 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-130-151.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:37 -!- tsuru` [~user@68.53.57.241] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:48:41 is there a way to remove the " " from the output of format? or it is the way it works? 23:49:29 wildnux: By output, do you mean to a stream ? Format shouldn't produce any " 23:50:16 (format nil "Hello") will specifically create a string (due to the nil as first argument), which when printed by the REPL will have the quotation marks 23:50:31 a string*, even 23:50:38 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:52 Zulu: i meant the console output 23:50:53 -!- schell [~schellsci@75-101-46-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Quit: schell] 23:51:21 Zulu: that might be the reason 23:51:26 wildnux: If you do (format t "Hello") it should produce only the word Hello without any quotation marks. 23:52:15 but it will print NIL after each format isn't it? 23:52:29 because format returned NIL 23:52:49 wildnux: (progn (format ...) (values)) ;; return no values, so REPL won't print NIL 23:52:50 it prints the output and then the value the function returned 23:53:01 wildnux: observe how slime renders the output 23:53:11 wildnux: also try typing * 23:54:22 shaggy-: an important point here is that "it" which prints some output and another "it" which prints the result are two very different "its". 23:54:27 i tried (progn (format t "... ) ) and it printed (nil nil) at the end 23:54:53 (progn (format t "..") (VALUES)) 23:55:31 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/f_values.htm 23:56:38 wildnux: The important thing to understand is that the NIL is printed by the REPL, and not by format. If you have a piece of code that uses format, it will not output NIL after each format 23:56:52 aliao [~user@115.63.131.192] has joined #lisp 23:57:21 -!- aliao [~user@115.63.131.192] has left #lisp 23:58:47 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has left #lisp