00:00:37 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:00:45 Hm... why does (alexandria:circular-tree-p '#1=(#1#)) overflow the stack? 00:03:17 Bike: does it? maybe (identity '#1=(#1#)) is just as bad? 00:03:22 "circular tree" sounds like a bad name, graph-theoretically (-: 00:03:51 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:03:54 akovalenko: I don't understand what you mean... 00:04:06 Bike: is *print-circle* true in your REPL? 00:04:11 It works with '#1=(4 (#1#)) or '#1=(#1# 4) and so on 00:04:15 yes, and it only returns t or nil anyway 00:04:53 circular-tree-p, that is. 00:08:38 felideon [~fdelgado@184.105.242.75] has joined #lisp 00:09:04 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 00:09:54 -!- carlo_au [~carlo@ppp59-167-11-78.lns1.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:10:32 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:11:42 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:07 Vivitron- [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:14:39 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 00:16:13 Bike: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125060 00:16:30 hm, not what I have. 00:16:39 Bike: I've tried to fix it 00:16:55 of course it's not the original code 00:17:02 Oh, okay. 00:17:21 Obviously it's not that important an issue, since it only seems to fail on that one structure, but I was curious. 00:18:24 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-147-247.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:19:05 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:19:43 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:19:53 Bike: in the original, the first check for non-conses happens *before* the first check for "we have seen it before". 00:20:41 easyE` [XZTVjaUrfd@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 00:21:23 Bike: yours is an obvious corner case, but not the only one (having the subtree like that deep inside may be just as harmful) 00:23:05 gensym`` [~user@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 00:23:45 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 00:24:54 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:55 -!- Ralith [~ralith@1555hostw130.starwoodbroadband.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:27:24 -!- gensym` [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:29:06 luis: should I file a bug against ALEXANDRIA elsewhere? #lisp seems to be listed on a project page on par with a mailing list.. 00:29:59 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:30:04 -!- felideon [~fdelgado@184.105.242.75] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:31:54 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined 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seconds] 01:22:46 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-130-151.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:22:59 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483D182.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:23:29 ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 01:27:27 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:29:25 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:29:41 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:30:13 Kron [~Kron@69.166.25.6] has joined #lisp 01:32:21 frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:45 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-12-159.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:25 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:36:02 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:41:31 sorry if this isn't the place to talk about libs, but anyone having trouble getting the caveman quicklisp dist to load? 01:45:07 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 01:46:28 marsell_ [~marsell@120.22.63.165] has joined #lisp 01:48:21 francisl_ [~francisl@bas1-montreal48-1176343193.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 01:48:38 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.64.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:48:39 -!- marsell_ is now known as marsell 01:49:01 -!- EClaesson [~EClaesson@c-5284e555.013-19-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 01:54:02 Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.247.100.41] has joined #lisp 01:55:27 -!- quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 01:55:31 Hi everyone, Im reading "practical common lisp" and Im stock at chap23 - I realize that I dont understand the package system. 01:55:32 quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:03 can someone have a link to a good resource to learn about it? 01:56:44 two chapters before :) 01:56:47 topo__ [~topo@f053043121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:58:02 well, after reading it twice, I still have no idea how to install cl-ppcre (except to load the file load.lisp in slime, which look quite haskish) 01:58:37 ah, that's a better (more specific) question. 01:59:02 francisl_: check out http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/ 01:59:11 -!- topo [~topo@f053045025.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:59:11 -!- topo__ is now known as topo 01:59:45 once it's installed, all you would have to do from the REPL is (ql:quickload "cl-ppcre") 02:00:09 that would download and load the cl-ppcre system. 02:00:27 hi everyone, using quicklisp, how can i set up so that sbcl keep it stuff under quicklisp.sbcl, and clisp under quicklisp.clisp, and so on? or is it not necessary (eg. all impl. can share the same quicklist directory)? 02:00:29 great! thank you 02:01:51 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:03:04 alkoma``: you just need one quicklisp directory. libraries are tested (I believe) on various implementations. 02:04:03 -!- emef0 [~user@c-67-168-164-102.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:04:30 great, I've been 'mv' it everytime I switch impl. - thanks 02:04:37 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 02:04:46 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:05:56 alkoma``: you do have to add (for convenience) the helper snippet to each implementation's init script 02:07:39 felideon: can you give a bit more details ... 02:08:28 you see on http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/index.html there's a section that says "To load Quicklisp when you start Lisp" 02:10:04 pnq [~nick@AC81D8BE.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:10:13 felideon: the "(ql:add-to-init-file)" bit? 02:10:37 alkoma``: yes. what Lisp implementation do you use? 02:10:45 yeah, I see what you mean, that add the neccessary init for each impl. 02:11:13 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-127-247.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 02:11:36 right, for the current one you are running. 02:12:24 if you use more than one you can just copy&paste the generated snippet. (or be lazy/unresourceful like me and run the function on each :)) 02:12:46 easyE` [1r9R4hfub0@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 02:12:59 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.146.125.207.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 02:13:14 I use sbcl mostly 02:15:05 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:16:31 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:59 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has joined #lisp 02:19:06 -!- Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.247.100.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:19:37 Cloud__ [~cbolano@189.247.72.6] has joined #lisp 02:20:43 -!- alkoma`` [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 02:21:11 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:21:31 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-136-133.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:10 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:23:10 gko 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Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:43:36 Sicrus [~Sicrus@150.108.232.74] has joined #lisp 02:44:39 -!- ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:47:07 ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 02:56:59 -!- alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:57:49 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:02:09 frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:39 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:13:22 Ralith [~ralith@173-10-121-193-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 03:13:32 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:15:47 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-186-101.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:47 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-186-101.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:15:47 ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:16:37 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:18:02 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:19:36 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 03:22:09 -!- ianmcorvidae|alt [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:24:05 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:24:13 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:13 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:24:13 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:24:23 -!- Sicrus [~Sicrus@150.108.232.74] has left #lisp 03:30:52 seangrov` [~user@114.205.211.236] has joined #lisp 03:30:55 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:31:08 Is there anything, say a really good hallucinogen, that makes assimilating the ideas in Let Over Lambda a bit easier? 03:31:14 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wlzuscsegifxbngr] has joined #lisp 03:31:19 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 03:31:59 -!- seangrove [~user@114.205.211.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:35:20 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:39:30 loderunner: you'll just need to read it two or more times... 03:41:28 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.63.165] has quit [Quit: marsell] 03:42:07 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:45:51 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:45:54 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:50 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:49:38 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B32622D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:41 evening 03:49:46 -!- Ralith 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Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 06:35:07 is their a format directive for repeating something a number of times 06:35:16 ...or something else 06:35:32 I want to print out an arbitrary number of repeating characters 06:36:55 Guthur: try something like (format nil "~v,,,'xa" 30 "") where 30 is the width and x the character 06:37:20 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 06:37:32 or how about (dotimes (i 30) (princ "a1")) 06:37:49 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:38:03 yep, either might do 06:38:06 cheers flip214 06:38:09 but the padding can be a variable, too: (format nil "~v,,,va" 30 #\* "") 06:38:38 that's even more awesome 06:38:38 hehe 06:41:40 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.44] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:44:31 (format t "~v@{~a~:*~}" 5 #\*) 06:48:35 -!- samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:48:40 samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:46 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:56:27 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:57:05 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 06:57:10 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-77-50.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 06:57:43 acelent` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 06:57:46 morning 06:58:59 Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 06:59:27 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:00:52 francogrex [~user@109.130.138.187] has joined #lisp 07:01:36 -!- kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:01:45 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:02:26 Hi, a program is giving me this output (list (# 3.688879454116318d0) ... this # is of type double-float, I can't find a way to get rid of it (for example set it to nil) any ideas? 07:04:14 one generally assigns to places, not objects 07:04:33 kpal [eart0186@raven.linux.ox.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 07:04:40 perhaps you can elaborate on "get rid of it?" 07:04:47 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-12-159.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 07:04:59 I don't think that NaN is part of CL, so you probably need to refer to your implementation. 07:05:32 easyE` [ZRp2HLs6cl@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 07:07:40 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:08:28 Zhivago: it's true, it comes as an output of an call to R using rcl (http://common-lisp.net/project/rcl/), I was hoping to not mess with the src code of rcl 07:08:54 Reading the documentation might be sufficient ... 07:09:16 but it's really the documentation of your CL implementation that is relevant -- that's what's generating and handling NaNs. 07:09:29 Ralith: yes I mean set the nth value of the list where # occurs to a nil 07:10:13 -!- acelent` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:10:18 acelent` [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 07:11:35 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lpxgayiuppshnrzx] has joined #lisp 07:11:56 Zhivago: hmm... yes it's how my implementation (sbcl) is handling the R 'NaN' values (like (0 / 0)) 07:12:27 Then check the SBCL documentation on how to handle them. 07:13:14 ok; I will. just for info in R (typeof (0 / 0)) is "double" 07:13:57 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-98-150.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:14:59 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-74-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:15:07 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-74-123.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:15:07 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:18:03 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:18:03 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:20:13 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-35-53.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:22:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 07:24:04 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 07:24:48 blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has joined #lisp 07:25:39 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:25:54 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 07:27:47 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.138.187] has quit [Quit: (call)] 07:28:19 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:28:39 -!- Phooodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:28:57 -!- blandest [~blandest@ip4-85-204-33-242.euroweb.ro] has quit [Client Quit] 07:29:37 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:31:24 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:33:51 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:34:43 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:35:29 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:36:28 RarrRaptor [~Olathe@unaffiliated/olathe] has joined #lisp 07:36:58 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-207-196.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:06 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.78] has joined #lisp 07:38:03 ccorn [~ccorn@84.53.64.50] has joined #lisp 07:38:32 -!- hba [~hba@187.171.200.109] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:39:00 -!- RaptorRarr [~Olathe@unaffiliated/olathe] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:39:48 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 07:41:14 dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 07:41:20 good morning everyone 07:41:53 morning 07:42:04 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:42:52 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 07:45:18 -!- RarrRaptor [~Olathe@unaffiliated/olathe] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:47:24 killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 07:51:02 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:51:33 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:55:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-19.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:58:14 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:59 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 08:04:19 good morning #lisp 08:06:26 nostoi [~nostoi@212.Red-79-154-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 08:07:30 The LOOP facility is either a sin against God, or proof of His existence. 08:07:43 Maybe both. 08:08:09 easyE`: what is iterate then? An earthly incarnation? 08:08:39 *easyE`* can't really comment on ITERATE. 08:08:57 marsell [~marsell@120.18.22.45] has joined #lisp 08:09:20 jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 08:11:27 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-182.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:12:10 *mal* is a LOOP true believer who even uses ADD-LOOP-PATH 08:14:39 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:14:58 *flip214* extends ITER, too ... 08:19:10 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:21:01 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.113.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:21:37 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.112.140] has joined #lisp 08:21:57 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:22:39 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-19.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:59 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:24:05 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@212.Red-79-154-23.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 08:29:49 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:30:10 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 08:30:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-216.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:31:36 -!- cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:31:45 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 08:33:08 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 08:33:34 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:33:48 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 08:34:33 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 08:41:32 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:43:34 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:34 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ptgjzttjjkxrnzli] has joined #lisp 08:48:12 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.118.43] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:50:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.146.59.164] has joined #lisp 08:51:26 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:56:52 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:57:32 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 08:59:55 what could be wrong if hyperspec lookup in emacs does not work (i.e. it just does nothing). i installed emacs-w3m and verified that i can display web pages with it. 09:00:19 (emacs23 on linux in tmux window with slime from quicklisp) 09:02:59 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.20] has joined #lisp 09:05:07 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 09:05:54 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:06:11 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:02 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:07:10 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.176.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:07:26 H4ns: no messages, nothing? nothing in *messages*? 09:08:29 aerique: nothing. but i think i got it figured out - browse-url-browse-function was not defined to 'browse-url-generic, which seems to do nothing. 09:08:38 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-ptgjzttjjkxrnzli] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:09:23 very nice. i set it to 'w3m-browse-url and things work now. 09:09:31 stassats: i <3 slime tips! 09:11:34 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-wajtukkvymqrrpdv] has joined #lisp 09:12:31 hugod [~hugod@70.24.176.108] has joined #lisp 09:12:50 through slime tips, i discovered that dolist has an implicit tagbody. now how cool is that! (go continue), finally 09:16:35 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:17:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:09 -!- Hun [~Hun@host-80-81-19-29.customer.m-online.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:26:01 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:28:40 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDDAF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:29:06 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:30:30 is there a smart way to keep the last four items of a list while looping on it? 09:30:50 Blkt: many :) 09:30:53 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 09:30:57 Blkt: you mean the previous four? 09:31:18 (loop for (a b c d e) on list do (something :with e :and-last-four (list a b c d))) 09:32:04 yes 09:32:45 *jtza8* would like to note that pjb``'s loop iterates by #'cdr 09:32:49 Blkt: however, this loop for on adds nils so that a passes thru all elements. If this is not what you want, and if you don't have nils in the list, you can add a while e clause. 09:33:14 e.g. given '(1 2 3 4), at the first step I need '(1 2 3 4), at the second I need '(2 3 4 5) and so on, repeated a few times 09:33:28 given (1 2 3 4)? 09:33:34 yes... 09:33:41 (1 2 3 4 ...) 09:33:42 where does the 5 come from? 09:33:55 from a computation I do while looping 09:34:04 basically 09:34:29 I need to compute predictions using an neural network 09:34:40 (loop for a = nil then b for b = nil then c for c = nil then d for d = nil then e for e = (expression) while (test) do (something :with e :and-last-four (list a b c d)) 09:35:14 nice 09:35:18 I'll try with that 09:40:21 -!- easyE` [ZRp2HLs6cl@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:40:28 akovalen` [~user@95.73.105.210] has joined #lisp 09:40:33 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:41:21 Would CFFI's with-foreign-object automatically free objects assigned to a variable with the type :pointer ? 09:42:13 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.97.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:42:26 (e.g. a memory block returned from a function.) 09:42:49 no 09:42:58 pjb``: would you say that again, using iterate and previous? 09:43:17 jtza8: it will only free the pointer itselfe, not the pointed ovject 09:44:21 Thanks fe[nl]ix. I should have known that. 09:45:46 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 09:46:01 I forgot that a pointer is an object itself in CFFI. 09:48:00 flip214: I never used iterate. 09:48:43 HG` [~HG@p5DC05E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:44 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.70] has joined #lisp 09:49:00 hi fe[nl]ix 09:49:02 oh, ok. 09:49:06 thanks, though. 09:49:13 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 09:49:35 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.180.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:50:12 flip214: the iterate manual has it all covered: http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Previous-Values-of-Driver-Variables.html nice, actually 09:50:48 H4ns: thanks, I know it. Actually I have it open on one virtual screen. 09:50:51 hi Blkt 09:51:16 flip214: as an exercise, maybe you want to show the iterate version then? 09:52:21 I was afraid that this line would come 09:53:54 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-77-50.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:55:51 (iterate:iter (for e in '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)) (for d previous e) (for c previous d) (for b previous c) (for a previous b) (print (list a b c d e))) 09:56:17 sadly you can't specify multiple variables in a previous, like this: (iterate:iter (for e in '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9)) (for (d c b a) previous (list e d c b)) (print (list a b c d e))) 09:57:15 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 09:57:32 that's something to ask attila ... for the "new" iterate in dwim.hu 09:59:20 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:01:18 flip214: can you explain in one sentence why you prefer iterate to loop? 10:03:49 H4ns: yes 10:03:54 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:04:05 do you want to hear the explanation, too? 10:04:44 i'm all ears 10:05:23 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:19 i was expecting a shorter sentence, actually :) 10:09:28 I've not bothered learning loop yet, mostly just performing tail recursion whenever I have complex iteration to perform. Does loop tend to generate better code? 10:11:12 well, the nice thing about loop is, that it's nicely indented because of the parens ... 10:11:24 then it has a few features more than loop (like generators) ... 10:12:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:26 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 10:12:54 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:13:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.97] has joined #lisp 10:13:59 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:16:34 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:17:00 generators look nice, indeed. 10:18:54 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 10:20:31 no full lambda list destructuring in for assignments, though. that's something i miss in loop, too. 10:20:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:21:01 well, it's on attilas TODO ... I reported that a few months ago as a wish - having &rest etc. IIRC 10:21:05 loop destructuring does let you use nil to denote an ignored arg though 10:21:11 that is a bit nice 10:21:14 or was it nested destructuring? 10:21:21 Xach: iterate does that, too 10:21:40 Xach: true indeed. it is bothersome that standard lambda lists don't have that 10:22:29 H4ns: write a cdr for that 10:22:36 it's a nice idea 10:23:17 att 10:23:22 sorry 10:26:14 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 10:26:23 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:29:06 -!- gko [~gko@27.242.131.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:35:19 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-203-66.uio.no] has joined #lisp 10:42:33 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:43:34 H4ns_ [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has joined #lisp 10:44:36 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 10:45:44 -!- H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:47:03 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:48:54 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 10:49:55 lnostdal [~Lars@77.17.17.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 10:51:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:52:06 tallica [~michal@unaffiliated/tallica] has joined #lisp 10:53:47 Going back to my yesterday toy-problem of rewriting the Tcl flip function (http://wklej.org/id/602860/) I came up with this CL code: http://paste.lisp.org/display/125063  any hints how this could be simplified, remade more idiomatically etc.? 10:55:00 antoszka: use WITH-OUTPUT-TO-STRING 10:55:23 Hm, yeah, thought about that. 10:55:48 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:55:59 But that's the wrapping, I feel the main data structure and looping could be done better/simpler. 10:56:21 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-lpxgayiuppshnrzx] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:56:42 well, instead of the apply concatenate, you can coerce to string, and collect characters, not strings of single characters 10:57:23 or you can allocate the result string in the beginning, since the length is the same as for the original string 10:57:41 or perhaps directly shuffle the results in a (make-string :initial-contents ...) 10:58:15 flip214: that's not directly -- it requires to first create the contents list 10:58:44 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 10:58:52 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:58:53 flip214: and you mean make-array, not make-string 10:59:20 I'd have thought that :initial-contents might translate into directly setting elements in the newly allocated string? but perhaps that's too optimistic 11:00:28 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:55 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-35-53.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:02:15 *Xach* annotates 11:02:55 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-oschytklrehjnbtw] has joined #lisp 11:03:57 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 11:04:01 antoszka: if you're sure about validity of the input you could use a single-level list - and address via (cdr (member)) 11:04:10 antoszka is gone 11:04:31 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:04:41 Xach: nice! 11:05:26 indeed! 11:05:29 duh, should have used map 'string in that case. 11:05:43 (map 'string map string)! 11:08:37 even better 11:08:52 now put one or two macros in there and submit to iolc 11:08:55 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:08:59 what is iolc? 11:09:22 international obfuscated lisp contest 11:09:25 you just have to start 11:09:36 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:09:36 Do you think it's obfuscated now? 11:09:39 no 11:09:39 where is the obfuscation_ 11:09:40 ? 11:09:49 "flip" is not a good name, true 11:10:16 in order to qualify for iolc, a program must be gross to start with. 11:10:21 jdz: Sorry, I just got timed-out by my ISP, anyway  I needed the string solution, because upside-down i is actually two chars: CL-USER> (make-array 2 :initial-contents (flip "i")) 11:10:27 #(#\LATIN_SMALL_LETTER_DOTLESS_I #\COMBINING_DOT_BELOW) 11:10:30 no, it's fine ... I was amused about (map 'string map string) and thought that there might a few more things find a place 11:10:32 jdz: So a char-char mapping is not possible. 11:11:04 Did I miss any interesting comments? 11:11:12 look at xachs annotation 11:11:18 !¡ 11:11:23 unsuitable as it turns out 11:11:23 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 11:11:26 flip214: ... which does not meet the requirement 11:11:39 ah, requirements change sometimes ... 11:11:56 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:13:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:14:00 antoszka: i'd replace the (make-string 1 :initial-element char) by (string char) 11:14:32 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:14:38 -!- H4ns_ is now known as H4ns 11:15:20 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.22.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:15:25 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:15:28 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 11:15:43 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:18:25 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDDAF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 11:21:19 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 11:21:29 stassats: With my habit of closing files, slime-selector L is nearly useless to me. Could you make it so that attempting to use it while all lisp buffers were closed re-creates the last one instead of complaining that "Can't find unshown buffer in lisp-mode"? 11:21:35 stassats: Also, it shouldn't be hard to make C-c C-d h just be a command that checks if the first character is "~" and invokes the equivalent of C-c C-d ~, else tries the old C-c C-d h, and if there's no match last tries C-c C-d # ? 11:22:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 11:22:45 Hexstream: submit your patch to slime-devel! 11:23:56 H4ns: I'm not an Emacs Lisp expert and have no ambition of becoming one. 11:24:32 Hexstream: it is always good to know the tools that you're using well. 11:24:49 Hexstream: in particular when using open source tools. 11:24:53 I usually do something with full dedication or not at all. 11:24:57 antoszka [~antoszka@89-76-98-178.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 11:25:02 replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:25:07 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@89-76-98-178.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Changing host] 11:25:07 antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:25:13 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-wlzuscsegifxbngr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:25:14 ignorance is bliss 11:25:23 xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:31 H4ns: When you already have years of backlog, yes. 11:25:36 Damn, ISP kicked me out again. 11:29:43 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 11:30:17 Hexstream: C-c C-d h works as intended 11:30:25 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:30:57 stassats: I know that, but it doesn't work as I intend ;P The command is unnecessarily narrow. 11:31:14 can't do nothing 11:31:20 Great news! 11:31:37 If that means "Must do something." 11:31:40 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:31:52 naturally, no 11:31:59 stassats: Why not? 11:31:59 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:32:33 the elders decided that it should be that way 11:32:40 i don't question the Elders 11:33:03 Who decided it, when, and why? 11:33:29 Hopefully you're not an Elder yet, so I can question you about it. 11:33:56 *akovalenko* is reminded of his attempt to unite slime-who-calls and slime-who-macroexpands.. 11:33:59 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.97] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 11:34:13 i can only say that i won't change C-c C-d h, that's all 11:34:17 antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has joined #lisp 11:34:22 akovalenko: have you tried slime-who-references? 11:34:29 akovalenko: That wouldn't be 100% safe, unlike the change I'm proposing. 11:34:40 no, it's called something else 11:35:10 slime-edit-uses 11:35:20 or M-? 11:35:30 -!- antoszka_ [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has left #lisp 11:35:39 There's zero chance that the user, when doing C-c C-d h then entering ~ plus some letter, wouldn't want the FORMAT documentation for that directive. 11:36:32 Hexstream: says who? perhaps I've got a function named "~a"? 11:36:36 Hexstream: conditional probabilities are hard :) 11:36:41 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 11:36:47 -!- topo [~topo@f053043121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:37:02 let's go shopping! 11:37:07 what if the user wants to see all format directives and select the one he needs? 11:37:10 flip214: Irrelevant. There is no such function in the HyperSpec, which is what C-c C-d h looks at. 11:37:35 C-d C-d ~ provides a nice completion with descriptions 11:37:44 stassats: Then he goes to the trouble of invoking C-c C-d ~. 11:38:09 akovalenko: so, does M-? do what you want? 11:38:20 Hexstream: But I frequently know exactly what format directive I want and just want to check the arguments and stuff, say for ~F. 11:38:36 lol. stassats. 11:38:40 stassats: what do you think? I wanted it a year ago or more :) now I'm content with slime as it is 11:38:49 Hexstream: change it for yourself 11:39:26 scombinator [~user@121.98.92.184] has joined #lisp 11:40:16 stassats: is it possible to bind C-c C-d to a function key? 11:40:44 stassats: If you don't want to make that change, that's fine. But don't give me bogus non-reasons for not doing it. Anyway. 11:40:47 what's a function key? 11:41:05 F11 11:41:06 F1 11:41:10 stassats: i have these on my keyboard, they are labeled f1-f12 11:41:10 I'm guessing 11:41:12 oh 11:41:24 stassats: i have f8 bound to slime-selector, for example 11:41:32 stassats: no problem if you don't know :) 11:43:19 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:43:41 damn 11:43:53 I want the equivalent of multiple desktops on emacs 11:44:53 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 11:44:56 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-203-66.uio.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:35 scombinator: M-x desktop 11:51:43 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-203-66.uio.no] has joined #lisp 11:52:28 -!- H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:54:09 Hmm, desktop is more persistence between sessions. I think I've found what I want in `escreen.' Thanks though. 11:55:40 and H4ns is gone, and no minion to leave a memo.. 11:55:55 -!- scombinator [~user@121.98.92.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:59:34 macrobat_ [~fuzzyglee@nl-218-96.netlogon.liu.se] has joined #lisp 12:00:18 cmatei [~cmatei@95.76.22.68] has joined #lisp 12:04:16 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-oschytklrehjnbtw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:06:04 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:06:37 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 12:08:04 scombinator [~user@121.98.92.184] has joined #lisp 12:08:06 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-203-66.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:09:15 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:11:15 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.136] has joined #lisp 12:11:58 gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:02 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CE1A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:03 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:15:19 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:11 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 12:18:05 brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has joined #lisp 12:19:21 -!- brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has quit [Client Quit] 12:19:35 brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has joined #lisp 12:20:08 -!- aliao [~user@115.63.132.243] has left #lisp 12:20:19 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:21:33 -!- blackwol` is now known as blackwolf 12:21:47 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:55 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has joined #lisp 12:22:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has quit [Changing host] 12:22:55 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 12:23:54 -!- tallica [~michal@unaffiliated/tallica] has left #lisp 12:25:32 oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 12:28:42 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-velaigbctcnrgxsb] has joined #lisp 12:32:15 hi 12:32:30 I'm trying to write a Lisp compiler for AVR mcu's 12:33:05 is anyone interested? 12:33:21 perhaps in the distant future :) 12:33:40 arbscht [~arbscht@fsf/member/arbscht] has joined #lisp 12:34:01 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 12:34:44 Posterdati: I'm having deja vu. 12:35:00 Posterdati: why not post it somewhere else instead of multiple times here? try lisp.reddit.com or similar. 12:35:47 Xach: i was hoping he'd now add that he made some progress, last time i heard Posterdati was asking about how it could be done 12:36:18 That could be interesting. Posterdati, do you have any code? 12:37:44 Xach: not directly wrote by me... I'm using Norvig's scheme compiler and I'm writing a sexp interpreter on c/c++ for AVR... 12:38:21 Xach: I'd like to modify scheme compiler to generate AVR code 12:38:45 Posterdati: so your end goal is #scheme, not #lisp ? 12:39:17 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:39:19 madnificent: no is it Lisp, but I didn't find any Lisp compiler ready to go 12:39:29 Posterdati: this channel is for Common Lisp. 12:39:43 Xach: I know 12:40:54 Posterdati: have you looked at ECL? 12:41:17 madnificent: yes, but it's too hard to develop on AVR 12:41:39 Posterdati: please stop asking here if people are interested in your vaporware non-CL projects. 12:42:00 if i use a normal regex in cl-ppcre, will that be compiled? or should i create a scanner and reuse that? 12:42:20 i'm using the regex in a function definition, so the regex itself is known at compiletime 12:42:26 madnificent: there are compiler macros in cl-ppcre for precompiling constant patterns. 12:43:01 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:43:10 *madnificent* won't find any gain in optimizing that then... thanks 12:43:48 I don't think so, though when in doubt, measure. 12:44:23 When I was starting out I thought it would be really important to do extra work early, like embedding #.(char-code #\a) instead of a runtime function call. 12:44:42 But Xof pointed out that any compiler worth using would rewrite it appropriately. 12:45:03 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@77.17.17.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:45:22 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:46:07 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:46:30 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:48:25 Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-69.uwaterloo.ca] has joined #lisp 12:48:30 Xach: the bottleneck for some data insertion operations is a regex now 12:49:08 well, the regex plus one or more calls to parse-integer, though i may be able to work around it cleverly 12:49:18 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:50:09 danielj [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:50:22 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 12:51:13 Never assume a compiler will do something for you, and you'll never be disappointed 12:51:51 premature optimization is the root of all evil. 12:52:04 i usually know what the compiler will do 12:52:06 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 12:52:12 scombinator: i've been fairly disappointed when trying to do some fancy optmizations which would obviously be beneficial in my head, only to discover that sbcl did more important ones for me when i didn't optimize the code 12:52:21 stassats: you cheat 12:52:36 jdz: scombinator hasn't touched on premature optimization though 12:53:52 madnificent: well, using the context he did 12:54:24 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 12:54:25 jdz: i guess it could be interpreted as that, yes 12:55:25 Or compiled even 12:56:21 *Xach* failed to read the cl-ppcre docs very thoroughly and didn't know until recently you could write e.g. (register-groups-bind ((#'parse-integer a b c)) "(\\d+) (\\d+) (\\d+)" ...) 12:56:36 zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 12:56:41 well, except with the right syntax. 12:57:01 Xach: what would be the right syntax? 12:57:24 H4ns: I left out some parens. 12:57:42 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 12:57:42 (r-g-b bindings (regex target ...) body) 12:58:10 Was that in the first cl-ppcre? 12:58:19 i think i have used that before 12:59:00 what bothered me was that if there was no match, the body would silently not be executed 12:59:49 Looks like it was added *after* I learned cl-ppcre, so I don't feel as bad 12:59:55 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.136] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 12:59:58 *Xach* must remember to re-read docs on new releases 13:00:04 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:02 hello. if child inherits from parent how do I call a parent method on a child object? 13:01:19 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-188-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:01:24 zardoz8: (method child-object) 13:01:35 zardoz8: (call-next-method) is probably what you want 13:01:59 -!- macrobat_ [~fuzzyglee@nl-218-96.netlogon.liu.se] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 13:02:15 zardoz8: if there is a method specialized for the child, too, you can use call-next-method to call the next most-specific method within the body 13:02:36 nice thanks 13:03:02 zardoz8: what you can't do though, is call a parent's implementation of a different method, if that was what you were looking for 13:03:41 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:03:41 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 13:04:19 madnificent wouldn't (funcall (find-method ..) child) do it? 13:04:35 -!- brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:05:53 kennyd: would it? 13:06:11 I haven't tried but I don't see why not 13:06:25 I don't know, either, but my intuition is that you don't call method objects, you call (generic) functions. 13:06:38 Except, I suppose, via call-next-method... 13:06:41 if you'd select the right parents, it could... but you'd be doing it manually to some extent 13:07:12 If only there was some way to find out! 13:07:36 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 13:08:11 dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 13:08:20 Xach: there is no way, don't think about it. let's drop it :) 13:09:09 H4ns: (define-key slime-editing-map (kbd "") 'slime-doc-map) 13:09:24 stassats: *bow* thanks! 13:09:44 -!- scombinator [~user@121.98.92.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:10:29 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.206.177] has joined #lisp 13:11:11 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:11:27 -!- jsoftw [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:13:13 -!- dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:13:25 brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has joined #lisp 13:13:42 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-prnnnahcnzurqcua] has joined #lisp 13:14:57 -!- brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has quit [Client Quit] 13:15:09 brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has joined #lisp 13:16:31 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:16:53 ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has joined #lisp 13:16:54 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:24 -!- brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:05 brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has joined #lisp 13:18:40 -!- brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has quit [Client Quit] 13:18:46 nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:18:53 G'morning all. 13:18:55 brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has joined #lisp 13:19:04 'morning. 13:19:19 nice to see ye around again. (-: 13:19:23 Thanks. 13:19:51 hello nyef :) 13:20:01 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 13:20:18 H4ns: "03:33:28 stassats: is it possible to bind C-c C-d to a function key?" <-- Sorry, I kinda missed your message earlier. I think you're looking for (global-set-key [f8] 'slime-doc-map)? 13:20:47 Hexstream: catch up on scrollback. 13:22:14 Does modern SLIME have context-sensitive help for DEFPACKAGE options? 13:22:55 Because I'm using a somewhat old SLIME with a not-too-old SBCL, and I see (defpackage package &rest options) when I open an :import-from option clause, and it's not quite useful. 13:24:18 Xach: Oh Jesus. Only 20 minutes too late =/ 13:24:52 Hrm. And the indentation leaves just a touch to be desired, although that might be my local configuration. 13:24:59 Hexstream: thanks anyway. i wonder how your suggestion differs from stassat's 13:25:15 it's global, while mine only works in slimy buffers 13:25:39 stassats: thanks! 13:26:26 Yeah, really the first version of that message said "something like", I thought the question really was about how to represent a function key in a key binding. 13:26:52 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:27:35 marsell [~marsell@120.18.22.90] has joined #lisp 13:27:37 i'm used to binding keys to functions that i can look up with C-h k, which does not work with these prefix kind of keys 13:27:45 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@141.212.59.194] has joined #lisp 13:28:36 H4ns: C-c C-h, then use a search for C-d in the help buffer. 13:28:55 TDT [~user@dhcpw81fff8dd.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:28:59 -!- ziptar [~hi@drsd-d9ba8b1b.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:29:03 H4ns: or you can define it for slime-parent-bindings, which means _all_ slime buffers, not only editing ones 13:29:43 that would be more like C-c C-d 13:30:45 stassats: Well yeah, that's an example. That's how you find out that C-c C-d accesses slime-doc-map. 13:30:58 Or at least I don't know of a better way. 13:31:15 Hexstream: what is an example? 13:31:41 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:32:23 lnostdal [~Lars@77.17.17.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 13:32:23 "C-c C-h is then use a search for C-d in the help buffer." is an example of finding the command invoked by a "prefix kind of key"? 13:33:03 -!- lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:33:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:33:26 ok, but why did you say to me "Well yeah, that's an example", i wasn't inquiring or talking about it 13:33:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-199.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:40 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:33:50 btbytes [~pradeep@207.250.232.26] has joined #lisp 13:34:01 Oh, I thought "stassats: that would be more like C-c C-d" was addressed to me... Nevermind then. 13:34:08 stassats: btw, you can use NickServ for memos 13:34:25 nobody will see them 13:34:38 hm, right 13:34:53 i want discussions to be public, not only H4ns would benefit from knowing the answer 13:36:56 Hrm. I should probably resurrect minion, shouldn't I? 13:37:02 If I can, that is. 13:37:15 stassats: if i try (define-key slime-parent-map (kbd "") 'slime-doc-map), i get "Lisp error: (wrong-type-argument keymapp (("\256" slime-edit-definitio...." 13:37:17 ... maybe later. 13:37:25 nyef: please do! 13:37:51 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-velaigbctcnrgxsb] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:37:52 Apparently someone else has a bot called minion, but I think we still have the nickserv registration. 13:38:18 ghost time 13:38:23 Maybe later. 13:38:29 pnq [~nick@ACA43343.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:29 H4ns: (define-key slime-parent-map [f7] 'slime-doc-map) 13:38:32 Ghost time when I'm actually ready to put the bot back online. 13:38:48 Hexstream: that's the same 13:38:57 stassats: Well, it works for me. 13:39:11 but it's the same, so that's not helpful 13:39:14 I don't know that I even have my ssh key handy, and while I probably know the clnet root password, that's not a route I want to go down right now. 13:39:17 Hexstream: for me, it does not. 13:39:22 Though the former does too, for me, actually. 13:39:36 -!- xristos [~x@ec2-107-20-233-212.compute-1.amazonaws.com] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 13:39:38 H4ns: are you putting that into .emacs somewhere? 13:39:45 So, tomorrow at the earliest. 13:39:52 maybe something's not loaded at the right time 13:39:58 stassats: sure, but right now i'm just evaluating it with slime already loaded 13:40:18 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 13:40:33 stassats: ah, it is not the same, or maybe i've just misinterpreted you. 13:40:46 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-205-122.uio.no] has joined #lisp 13:40:46 stassats: it is slime-parent-map, not s-p-bindings 13:40:57 no, loading in the loaded slime should do fine 13:40:59 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:41:04 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 13:42:27 -!- antgreen` [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925098559.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:42:55 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:43:08 -!- cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:43:28 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 13:43:37 H4ns: can you paste the value of slime-parent-map? 13:43:50 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@77.17.17.130.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:51 the easiest way to copy the value would be through C-h v 13:44:39 stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/+2OI3 13:44:53 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.22.90] has quit [Quit: marsell] 13:45:17 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:45:35 rme [~rme@50.43.153.241] has joined #lisp 13:46:24 grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has joined #lisp 13:47:03 lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 13:47:29 looks ok, can you do M-x toggle-debug-on-error, run the thing again and paste the backtrace 13:47:34 -!- xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:48:27 ... I have the sudden urge to (with-mutex ((load-time-value (make-mutex t))) ...). 13:49:01 stassats: http://paste.lisp.org/+2OI3/1 13:49:19 If I know absolutely that I'm not going to want to hit the mutex from any other function, is there any reason not to do this? 13:50:21 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:50:31 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:50:39 stassats: just so it is clear: (define-key slime-parent-bindings [f7] 'slime-doc-map gives me this error, (define-key slime-parent-map [f7] 'slime-doc-map) does not 13:52:52 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 13:53:06 -!- xristos is now known as Guest63533 13:53:08 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 13:53:24 ... Err, (with-mutex ((load-time-value (make-mutex) t)) ...), I mean. 13:53:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:53:50 ah, nyef 13:53:51 -!- dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:53:55 Hello Krystof. 13:54:03 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:54:13 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:54:42 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 13:55:37 Joreji_ [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:56:50 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:58:32 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:59:25 H4ns: oh, sorry, my bad, it should be slime-parent-map indeed 13:59:52 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.180.200] has joined #lisp 13:59:54 *stassats* blames dabbrev-expand again 14:02:04 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:03:02 Joreji_ [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:05:04 -!- Guest63533 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:05:53 *nyef* wonders if he can make a live server auto-update when a change is pushed to source-control without having to kill the lisp image, and still have some flexibility with refactoring the package system. 14:07:18 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:07:18 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.206.177] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:09:05 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-130-151.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:09:42 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:09:55 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 14:10:08 pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 14:10:21 -!- xristos is now known as Guest77561 14:12:37 nyef: I had a private-mail conversation with someone who had a CLX problem, which eventually boiled down to adding sbcl to the list of #-(or ...) just above the definition of xlib::without-interrupts in dependent.lisp 14:12:49 do you still think of yourself as "in charge" of clx? 14:12:53 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA43343.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:13:04 I'm in charge only by default. 14:13:09 well yes 14:13:18 that's still the wearing of the hat 14:13:23 Yes. 14:14:07 hey, there's even text on cliki/CLX 14:14:08 I should be getting access to the disk from my old G5 again tonight, and it should have my current CLX working tree with the various GLX fixes. 14:14:13 Joreji__ [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:14:24 'In file "dependent.lisp" modify the line "#-(or lispm excl lcl3.0 Minima cmu)" to read "#-(or lispm excl lcl3.0 Minima cmu sbcl)" to eliminate style warning from SBCL 1.0.48' 14:14:39 -!- brill [~brill@193.3.8.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:14:42 cool 14:14:56 *Xach* claps, can't wait for new clx in quicklisp 14:15:33 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.77.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:15:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.199] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:15:51 old skool patches 14:16:38 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.66.137] has joined #lisp 14:16:46 I have a clx tree in the wrong version control system on a laptop that isn't currently connected to the internet 14:17:06 textual description of the patch is probably easier :-) 14:17:07 Ouch. darcs still? 14:17:29 yeah. I saw your git tree somewhere but am out of time to actually pull it 14:17:58 Mmm. The usual startup-company time-suck thing? 14:18:40 does clx still work on lispm or on liquid common lisp? 14:18:44 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:19:17 I have no idea, does liquid common lisp still run on any platform? 14:19:39 (We'll leave the lispm question aside, as we -know- there are emulators out there.) 14:20:18 Then again, even emulators can disappear, as shown by trying to run MCLIDE on OS X Lion. 14:20:45 it's said to run HP-UX, AIX, IRIX, Solaris, and SunOS 14:21:07 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-118.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:21:28 Mmm. And I've seen an AIX box in the wild as recently as two years ago... I think. 14:21:32 Might have been three. 14:22:46 And the high-end SGI machines AFAIK still can't run free OSes, or maybe only the odd free OS with no real market share (openbsd?) 14:23:04 or netbsd 14:23:35 the question is whether anybody still use or rely on them? 14:23:46 other than as museum exhibits. 14:24:20 maybe it'd be beneficial to remove all kinky old implementations from CLX, to simplify code 14:24:45 It might be beneficial, but I'm not going to do it. 14:24:50 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 14:25:00 if we can't test them, there's probably much bit rot anyways. 14:25:18 and that would be the way to see if anybody uses it, when they complain 14:25:31 QED. 14:25:38 topo [~topo@f053043121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:25:47 Probably not that much, actually. I mean, the newer extensions might not work, but the core code doesn't change much. 14:28:07 Is there a simple way to convert hyphens to underscores in a string, or should I just involve cl-ppcre? 14:28:29 nyef: substitute? 14:28:50 Yes, thank you! 14:28:57 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:29:29 phew, and there i was thinking i'm missing something in a simple question like that... 14:30:04 not if they're fancy underscores that need 2 characters to be valid ... 14:30:14 We've had that already today. 14:30:39 well, i already started to think that nyef is after replacing double hyphens to single underscore 14:30:45 flip214: Fortunately, these underscores are ASCII. 14:31:08 jdz: No, this is for mapping field names from an ad-hoc json-based format to lisp variables. 14:31:12 Foul! Foul! That's too simple! Think of something more complicated!! 14:31:16 Or, actually, the other way around. 14:31:35 flip214: I'm involving MACROLET. Does that help? 14:31:39 nyef: do you have your own json parser? 14:31:40 nyef: like this: https://github.com/hanshuebner/cl-github-v3/blob/master/github.lisp#L22 ? 14:32:03 jdz: No, I'm using st-json. 14:33:06 H4ns: why read-from-string and not INTERN? 14:33:22 stassats: i'm doing that to appease acl modern mode 14:33:26 H4ns: Yes, something very similar... I was going to use FORMAT NIL ~(~A~) on the symbol, though. 14:33:55 stassats: obviously, this is not a very efficient way, but it is effective. 14:34:15 nyef: I have rather a lot of sgi gear with R10 and R12k cpus, but to date I haven't even been able to bootstrap netbsd on them. 14:34:21 irix all the time. :P 14:34:32 Fade: And do you use CLX with them? 14:35:01 it has been awhile since I've tried to get any lisp on them, but iirc only clisp goes. 14:35:10 the answer to your direct question is 'no' 14:35:28 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 14:35:39 you can run liquid common lisp! 14:35:58 if they were still a deployment target, I'd consider it. 14:35:59 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@141.212.59.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:36:15 So, no up-to-date SBCL port? That's a little disappointing. 14:36:34 i'm a bit surprised that gcc hasn't fixed up the cache coherency problem. 14:36:39 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:42 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:37:08 if somebody wants to get sbcl working on relatively high end mips64, I could nail one up on a permanent network :) 14:37:45 Hrm. Invocations of macrolet macros don't indent correctly. 14:37:53 Fade: what is "high end" here ? 14:38:13 don't encourage anybody, it's better that somebody works on the ARM port instead 14:38:29 I have a four or five R10k cpus, a single r12k, and an single r14 14:40:40 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 14:40:43 I have the impression that it would be faster to use qemu on a corei7 14:42:07 sbcl already works on corei7, no qemu needed! 14:42:09 paul0 [~paul0@200.146.125.207.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:42:26 qemu emulating mips64 14:42:41 stassats: yeah, but it runs stinky ugly x86_64 code, not beautiful clean mips64 code! 14:43:36 I also have an alphaserver 4100 that I have every intention of bringing up, as soon as life slows down a little. 14:44:46 *stassats* doesn't really see the appeal of old hardware 14:45:34 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 14:45:43 Fade: do you use IRIX? 14:46:04 I have clients in the visual fx industry who still use it a lot. 14:46:17 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:18 Fade: I've got an old INDIGO2 here with 6.5.22 :) 14:46:25 :) 14:46:31 I see the appeat of old hardware. What I don't see, is the appeal for the kW/cycle they require. 14:46:35 Fade: any Lisp implementation for it? 14:46:44 so we keep hardware around to test deployment and configuration changes. 14:46:49 clisp runs on irix. 14:46:59 replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:47:12 pjb-: but it can double as a heater 14:47:21 as far as i remember clisp does not run CLX 14:47:26 maybe that has changed, though 14:47:34 it has its own CLX 14:47:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 14:48:08 stassats: definitely. So, I run my old computers only in the winter. 14:48:26 you could send them to the north pole 14:48:31 In winter in a cold country, running old hardware is free (compared to not running it, and assuming that you have electric heating in your house) 14:48:37 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:49:03 -!- btbytes [~pradeep@207.250.232.26] has left #lisp 14:49:06 loke: heating with electric power is disproportional expensive, at least here in central europe 14:49:13 too bad computers don't run on water 14:49:15 wood, gas, etc, are much cheaper 14:49:23 as somebody who lives in a cold country who has electric heating, i'm here to tell you by no known measure is it 'free'. ;) 14:49:30 stassats: they do! you just need a generator and some wheels ... 14:49:34 flip214: Yeah, that's why I added that caveat. 14:49:45 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-33-188-214.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:50:26 Mmm. Computers in the vicinity of the Hoover Dam run on water, surely? 14:50:43 fade: I said compared to not running the computer. The assumption being that the heating would either come from the computer or the radiator, the required power to heat the room in this case being equal 14:50:47 <-- 90km from niagara falls 14:51:23 loke: in this case, add some old CRT monitors, so you can have light as well 14:51:27 well, actually, you can use a water heater and coldness outside with a thermocouple 14:51:39 a computer radiating 100watts of heat is consuming signifigantly more than 100 watts. 14:51:54 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:19 Fade: Canadian side, I presume? 14:52:20 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:52:26 Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:52:27 yeah 14:52:28 Toronto 14:52:38 fade: are you referring to the fact that the inside of the computer would likely have a higher temperature? I.e. the temperature radiation ability of the computer is not as good as a radiator? 14:52:44 (If you were US-side, you'd have given a distance in miles.) 14:52:59 Some energy is used for useful compatations. 14:53:05 pjb-: No 14:53:18 pjb-: all energy used for computation int he CPU is converted to heat 14:53:25 hard-drives, ram, cpu, inefficiencies in the inverter in the power supply. 14:53:30 loke: maybe it creates matter? 14:53:46 fade: all inefficiences convert the power to heat... 14:53:57 fade: it's just a matter of making sure the heat is distributed properly 14:54:20 the useful work is deducted after the PS. 14:55:03 fade: what do you mean by "the useful work is deducted..."? 14:55:06 one of these octane2's has six old scsi disks in it. 14:55:29 I would have thought that beating the bits into the right shape = fighting entropy = means some energy is converted into "negative entropy", ie. information, and should be lost? 14:55:39 of course, that would be some fJ ... 14:56:27 Joreji_ [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 14:56:50 flip214: You sure? How does that jive with the first law? 14:57:20 I prefer stassats idea. The CPU obviously creates matter :-) 14:58:05 I'd prefer the CPU creating mind over matter. :-P 14:58:23 well, if a row of zero bits decay slowly into a mixture, that is entropy => lower potential energy 14:58:27 nyef: drumroll! 14:58:40 *akovalenko* understood whence all the dust around CPU and motherboard came. CPU creates matter.. 14:58:42 so I'd argue that a memset(x, 0, sizeof(x)) would _decrease_ local entropy 14:58:51 the disks convert the power to torque 14:59:00 well, some portion of it. 14:59:20 *Fade* shrugs 14:59:26 -!- MasseR [~masse@dyn68-323.yok.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:59:37 fade: OK, as it spins up, sure. But then the momentum is preserved and all energy going into the disk drive is converted to heat. 14:59:53 oof, it is time to prune some year-idle blogs from planet lisp again 15:00:05 you must live in a hypothetical perfect world. 15:00:47 MasseR [~masse@dyn68-323.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 15:00:49 Fade: No. I live in a world that obeys the first law of thermodynamics. :-) There is a Nobel Prize waiting for you if you can show that the energy going into your system isn't coming out again :-) 15:00:58 if you dont dump energy into the motor in the disk, it slows down 15:01:13 so you must use the energy to retain the angular momentum of the disk 15:01:28 well, hard disk plates slow down due to air resistance and bearing resistance, which is converted to heat 15:01:35 not to mention the energy associated with moving the read/write heads around inside the machine. 15:01:41 Fade: No. The energy is used to replace the momentum lost to friction. And friction converts to heat. 15:01:48 Fade: energy-to-heat case is different from energy-to-other-useful-stuff: what we call an "imperfection" does no harm to the former 15:02:22 ...and that heat tends to be equal to the energy you put in the drive to "keep it spinning" 15:02:41 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 15:02:55 are you really arguing that a machine drawing 400watts of power from the wall is converting it to 400watts of heat? 15:03:02 Fade: yes 15:03:17 Fade: what other form of energy (or matter) does it convert to? 15:03:58 kinetic force of the disks and fans 15:04:04 loke: Well, for starters, it has to run the power LED... I guess that might wind up being heat most of the time as well... 15:04:07 kinetic force is not energy 15:04:18 nyef: Yeah, I was about to mention the LED's 15:04:20 Fade: and what's the balance *after* you have stopped the machine? 15:04:34 -!- blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-43568cfa.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:04:44 fair enough, there is a microscopic portion of the energy being converted to light as well :-) 15:04:46 Fade: see what you've done with your irixes! 15:04:57 Heat /is/ kinetic energy, so you can't really win that way, either... 15:04:58 -!- MasseR [~masse@dyn68-323.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:05:04 *Fade* laughs 15:05:55 MasseR [~masse@dyn68-323.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 15:06:16 we should be using thermocouples as cpu coolers. 15:06:41 Yeah! Use them to run the cooling fans! 15:06:54 Automatic speed regulation. 15:06:57 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.146.125.207.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 15:07:05 Fade: computers don't convert electrical energy to potential energy, nor to chemical bonds, nor directly to matter. everything goes into heat 15:07:15 and win a nobel price for building perpetua mobilia 15:07:48 prize* 15:09:00 spacefrogg: No, the point is that they run at speed proportional to the heat generated in the CPU, so once the CPU stops running for a while the fans stop. 15:09:41 nyef: SInce a therocouple depends on temperature differential, you still can't get away from the heatsink :-) 15:09:45 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:09:49 thermocouples cannot produce enough energy to drive the fan otherwise they would produce more energy than they consume 15:10:04 -!- Guest77561 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:55 Oh well. 15:11:13 Hunh. 11:11. 15:12:42 I think the argument is missing the gibbs free energy in the system, but I'm obviously not an expert. 15:12:51 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:13:55 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 15:14:21 -!- xristos is now known as Guest41258 15:15:45 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 15:15:51 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-199.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:16:26 Gah! String editing in paredit is doing crazy things with my backslashes. 15:17:03 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:17:05 you forgot the PSU efficiency :) 15:19:38 the argument is that the inefficiency is heat 15:19:52 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 15:20:07 but I think the work/information encoded in the system is accounted for by the gibbs free energy in a closed thermodynamic system. 15:20:32 anyhow, the whole line is way OT. :) 15:21:12 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 15:21:24 kruhft [~user@209.89.22.115] has joined #lisp 15:21:41 Fade: if memory is using capacitance effect to stare data, one could say that a part of energy is stored as potential energy in capacitors 15:21:53 s/stare/store 15:22:29 Fade: computers are not machine in physical therms 15:23:24 easyE` [Vmg4GjqZdT@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 15:24:03 *dl* likes that #lisp seems to be a good go-to place for *all* things computing! 15:24:26 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:24:33 -!- Kron [~Kron@129-97-120-69.uwaterloo.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:24:42 easyE`` [StX6BRTASg@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 15:25:12 dl: except scheme 15:25:16 :D 15:25:42 dl: temporary aberration 15:26:02 Oh, I wouldn't say that, we've had some interesting discussions about scheme in the past... 15:26:16
lol! 15:26:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 15:27:04
. o O ( My experience is that #lisp knows more about cluster computing than the channels specifically for cluster computing! :P :) 15:27:10 it usually starts like: "DrRacket is a pretty nice system, esp for beginners." 15:27:18 retupmoca [~andy@173-167-0-86-michigan.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:20 or "I sort of wish CL had call/cc" 15:27:43 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 15:27:50 "If you want Racket, go play Tennis!" 15:27:56 :) 15:28:11 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:28:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:28:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:28:15 course the racket guys seem to be making a lot of the apparent fact that racket is not scheme. 15:28:22 I can't follow the kids these days. 15:28:37
nyef: Thanks! I'll hit one of the schemers in ABQ Lisp/Scheme over the head with that one! (he likes racket a lot!) 15:28:48 jesu. i'm like a lightning magnet for Topic violations today. 15:29:27 dl: How about "I can't hear my headphones over all this Racket you're making!" 15:30:22
lol! Thats nice nyef! 15:30:46 sibbilance over scheme. 15:30:56
... this guy even speaks at our group sometimes... I like to be a heckler ;) 15:30:56 Fade: don't worry I started the off-topic business here 15:31:02 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-6-95.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 15:31:36 *dl* wonders if we shouldn't just change the topic to "everything: well, except scheme" ;) 15:32:01 signal/noice criticality excursion. 15:32:06 s/noice/noise 15:32:11 blackwolf [~blackwolf@ool-43568cfa.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:18 s/excursion/exception/? 15:32:55 The topic is Common Lisp. 15:33:57 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:34:08 Fade: shouldn't that be "lightning rod" ? 15:34:26 yeah, but when I typed that I was thinking of the axiom 15:34:35 superflit [~superflit@174-16-42-51.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:38 "All energy flows according to the whim of the Great Magnet" 15:34:47 :) 15:35:32 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:35:37 on5 [~pmastela@girard.eecs.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 15:37:12 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-6-95.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:37:41 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 15:40:24 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:40:26 ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 15:40:29 A computer would still spare some energy as mechanical energy (moving air from the front to the back), and as light (all those blinking leds). Sure, eventually it'll decay as heath, but not directly from the computer box. 15:40:40 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-6-95.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 15:41:00 Now granted, 99.99% of it goes directly to heat. 15:41:15 nlg [~zids@c-b6c1e455.02-416-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 15:41:17 that's why you can't have 100% effect-free code 15:41:20 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84.53.64.50] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:41:28 :-) 15:42:18 -!- ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 15:42:23 dwim [~dwim@210.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:29 :) 15:42:32 Question: Let say I have a list (setf testlist (= (john smith) john)) and I want to replace john with peggy so I use (subst '(peggy) testlist). The problem is that I do not want to replace the instance john in (john smith) but only the second one. My desired result is (= (john smith) peggy) and not (= (peggy smith) peggy). What is something I could use to solve this? 15:43:05 substitute 15:43:14 A programmer? 15:43:51 bazinga! 15:44:47 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:44:49 (incf nyef) 15:45:20 @stassats I figure I will use subst, but I want to avoid substituting within nested lists and only symbols or lists containing a single entry which is the word I'm looking to replace. 15:45:23 To be fair, I vaguely remember one of minion's advices having effectively the same sentiment. 15:45:24 If the goal is to leave inner lists alone, then substitute. But if it's about non-functional position in Lisp forms we want to process, then.. symbol-macrolet. 15:45:43 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 15:45:49 on5: substitute and subst are different 15:46:01 -!- pjb- [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:46:30 As you can see I am a novice. And you akovalenko are a wiz. Thank you kindly. 15:46:43 :( 15:46:54 you are too! ;) 15:46:55 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 15:47:02 you too @stassats 15:47:14 well, we're on topic. :) 15:47:16 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 15:47:22 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 15:47:24 eventually 15:47:25 stassats: now turn that frown upside-down! 15:47:30 i want to be the only one! 15:47:43 don't be proud 15:48:07 Ah! I know where my program is wrong. I'm returning values to be passed through to a BOA constructor via m-v-c, but I should be calling the BOA constructor directly with a placeholder for one of the data items and mutating it. 15:48:32 stassats: you're TOO MUCH of a wiz for remembering what it was like to be confused about many things in Lisp 15:49:10 -!- topo [~topo@f053043121.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: topo] 15:49:13 nyef: &aux to the rescue? 15:49:23 turns out, intuitive names are especially confusing 15:49:26 sykopomp: Mutable objects to the rescue. 15:50:09 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:50:29 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:50:41 Ah, good, no type restrictions on my struct slots... Or in my constructors. 15:50:54 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest34291 15:50:58 nyef: how would you mutate an object right in a struct's BOA constructor without using &aux? 15:51:16 I wouldn't. I'm going to mutate it post-construction. 15:51:18 TDT` [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:51:19 nyef: wouldn't multiple-value-list be enough? 15:51:44 pjb``: The point is that I should be returning a structure instance, not multiple values to be passed to the constructor. 15:51:48 ah ok 15:52:15 (apply (function boa-constructor) (multiple-value-list (generate-boa-arguments-as-values)) 15:52:23 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:52:31 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 15:52:51 -!- pjb`` is now known as pjb 15:53:47 pjb: Yes, that's more-or-less what I have now. Except that I'm using m-v-c instead of apply of m-v-l, and there's an extra arg that gets inserted as the first arg to the constructor. 15:54:03 right. 15:54:26 -!- TDT [~user@dhcpw81fff8dd.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:54:56 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: going home...] 15:55:59 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:56:44 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:40 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDDAF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:55 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:00:21 -!- acelent` is now known as acelent 16:00:32 Oh, wow, this program is All Wrong. Amazing what three weeks of perspective can do. 16:02:51 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:05 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:05:44 drewc` [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:52 what are you guys busy with nowadays, any new and exciting projects? recently I find it hard to come up with interesting reseach ideas? 16:06:23 tips, it's all about tips! 16:07:06 needle tips? 16:07:11 -!- drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:07:19 cow tips 16:07:19 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 16:07:28 afternoon all 16:07:36 'just the tip' 16:07:41 boo 16:08:45 I'm sure you have something challenging and intersting going on... you won't be able to live otherwise doing same old routine tasks 16:08:58 my outfit delivered the prototype for our lisp project, and the client signed up to productize it on the spot after the demo. 16:09:10 Fade: Congrats. 16:09:12 What is the difference between (subst 70 '(price) '(the price) :test #'equal) and (subst 70 '(price) '(the price (price)) :test #'equal)? 16:09:20 I'm pretty happy with the outcome. 16:09:37 the symbol rpice gets replaced in the first one but not the second for some reason 16:09:38 they have different arguments 16:10:10 (subst 70 '(price) '(the price) :test 16:10:11 im wondering why subst behaves differently 16:10:25 (the price) == (the . (price)) 16:10:31 sorry was going to say same like stassats 16:10:31 ... I have to bring specbot back too, don't I? Tomorrow, maybe. 16:10:49 perhaps you want (subst 70 'price '(the price) :test #'equal)? 16:10:54 paul0 [~paul0@200.146.125.207.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:11:09 clhs subst 16:11:09 or just (subst 70 'price '(the price)) 16:11:12 stassats: then no :test 'equal 16:11:21 pjb: Tomorrow, maybe. 16:11:24 you gotta be faster than that! 16:11:56 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:12:14 Fade: nice! 16:13:31 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 16:13:38 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 16:13:39 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:14:09 yeah, it's pretty cool :) 16:14:43 the critics of the project have delivered their Mea Culpas, and I got vindicated for an unpopular decision. 16:15:00 we even minted a few new lisp developers 16:15:42 the unpopular decision being lisp? 16:15:44 Fade: how's the experience been, of minting new lisp developers? How did you handle that? 16:15:45 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 16:16:10 yeah. I was bidding a project that had been dying in the land of java hell for two years, and I bid lisp. 16:16:23 be brought the demo in 8 weeks. 16:16:47 minting the lisp developers has been somewhat trying. 16:16:57 do you mean you bid "clever people"? 16:17:22 they didn't exactly show up glistening with excitement about learning a totally new language, but they really warmed up 16:17:27 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:17:28 stassats: well, yes 16:17:56 the java project was staffed with the commodity 'programmers' you hear about when you hear the argument against lisp that "You can't just replace developers!" 16:18:16 which turns out to be true in multiple axis' 16:18:17 you can if you use the right :test argument 16:18:23 *Fade* laughs 16:18:34 and these are the folks you taught lisp to? 16:18:56 no no. I brought over some of our internal guys who normally work in python and C. 16:19:05 we fired the former project team. 16:19:26 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:44 I guess that's the price of making a career out of being expendable. 16:19:48 one of those guys got turned right over into a python project and he has been cursing his toolchain for a week straight. :) 16:20:19 Python, the "almost" language. 16:20:42 I think it's more the absence of slime. 16:21:07 i would've just written slime for python 16:22:28 I'm just trying to move our practice to an 'all lisp' condition. 16:23:28 i like the SBCL version of the Python compiler! :) 16:23:38 Hello drewc`. 16:23:50 -!- on5 [~pmastela@girard.eecs.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:23:55 hey nyef! 16:23:59 -!- drewc` is now known as drewc 16:24:46 micro [~micro@www.bway.net] has joined #lisp 16:24:48 sleepers, wake 16:25:12 drewc: can we talk smug sometime? I've been using it for my own project for a while now, and I've made some tweaks as I've gone along that I'd like to hear your opinion on. 16:25:19 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:25:38 that's what everyone is doing here, talking smug 16:26:10 dwim_ [~dwim@210.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:26:21 Xach: must be wakup time in the West Coast :) 16:26:37 -!- Guest41258 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:55 didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has joined #lisp 16:27:06 -!- danielj [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:27:07 sykopomp: not a problem, /query me and i will answer and smug needs helpers anyways 16:27:25 drewc: glad to see you back. nyef was coincidentally gone for a long time and back recently, too. 16:27:45 heck, joelr1 too, though that doesn't count 16:28:54 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:29:13 drewc! 16:29:35 -!- dwim [~dwim@210.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:29:50 I am glad that I, and everybody else, are back now... #lisp, it matters to me. thanks! 16:29:57 You know what'd be neat? Being able to destructure elements in a dolist like you can in loop. (dolist ((key . value) some-alist) ...) or similar. 16:30:01 Fade: hey hey! 16:30:05 Suppose I have a procedure `current' which returns an element inside an array. `current' uses a global variable to return this element. Now, I want to incf this element, but I don't want to make a procedure which would also access this global variable but instead use `current' to incf the current element. How would I do that? 16:30:07 welcome back. :) 16:30:23 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:30:30 (dolist (entry entries)(destruturing-bind (stuff and things) entry ...)) 16:30:39 why not just use LOOP? 16:30:44 pjb: Too verbose, easier to stick with car and cdr. 16:30:55 Guest33164 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 16:31:07 didi: Do you want to really use current or just make it look like it? 16:31:16 stassats: I might, eventually. It's been this way for about a month though, so it's not critical. 16:31:39 didi: Might we recommend not using the global variable in the first place? 16:31:44 Xach: I would like to use some sort of setf trick. 16:31:56 nyef: Hehe, I know. 16:32:00 didi: http://www.franz.com/support/documentation/8.0/ansicl/dictentr/defsetf.htm 16:32:31 didi: if you define a setf function for current, you can do (incf (current)) or similar. 16:32:41 you don't need defsetf for that 16:32:43 that is a "look like it" solution. 16:32:56 didi: or even simpler (defun (setf current) () ...), right. 16:33:12 Xach: Yeah, that is what I want. 16:33:17 Okay, lunchtime. Back in a bit. 16:33:35 didi: (defun (setf current) (new-value) ... new-value) 16:34:50 -!- oiiii [~oiiii@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:59 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 16:37:50 troydm` [~troydm@85.117.42.160] has joined #lisp 16:38:28 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:38:58 -!- troydm` [~troydm@85.117.42.160] has quit [Client Quit] 16:38:58 didi: and you may add (define-symbol-macro cuuurrent (current)) to win friends and confuse people :) 16:39:56 are there some preferred GUI toolkits? 16:40:08 i prefer commonqt 16:42:17 Nice. Thank you all. 16:43:44 cl-gtk2 seems to be the default newbies' choice of the year (as indicated by numerous complaints) 16:44:46 -!- Guest34291 is now known as X-Scale 16:45:12 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:33 ltk is acceptable (if you didn't know Tcl, or forgot it, or won't want to look at ltk internals) 16:45:49 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:46:36 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 16:47:39
while we're talking GUIs, does anyone have any pointers to gentle introductions to CLIM? 16:47:47 H4ns_ [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 16:48:05 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 16:48:15 there's no good implementation of CLIM around 16:48:32
stassats: :( 16:48:52
stassats: is that true of commercial implementations as well? 16:49:07 from what i heard, yes 16:49:34
BUMMER! I've been meaning to learn CLIM for a while now... 16:49:49 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:49:51 -!- nlg [~zids@c-b6c1e455.02-416-6c6b701.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:49:56 well, you can learn it with mcclim alright 16:50:34 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:50:35 IIRC, commercial CL users praise GUI facilities of both ACL and LW, but those GUI facilities are *not* CLIM 16:50:43 but i found it to be hard to use for anything 16:51:09 i mean, not hard to use, but the results aren't satisfying 16:51:17 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.77] has joined #lisp 16:51:28 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:52 stassats: did you look at it with mcclim-truetype (or mcclim-freetype) in use? 16:52:32 stassats: not that AA fonts change too much, of course.. 16:52:43 it doesn't fix bugs or add features 16:53:01 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 16:53:05 it may fix features or add bugs, though (-: 16:53:15 it introduces bugs and breaks features, sure 16:55:57 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:58:50 ACL/LW? CLIM? 16:58:54 we aren't allowed to use the word 'bug' in our release notes 16:59:14 after a customer tried to sue, saying they do not buy bugs 16:59:36 issues? 16:59:59 irregularities, expectation violations, underdocumented features :) 17:00:01 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 17:00:21 *Fade* blinks 17:00:30 ..potential compatibility problems... 17:00:48 -!- easyE`` [StX6BRTASg@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:01:41 stassats, yep we can have issues, but not bugs 17:01:55 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-wajtukkvymqrrpdv] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:02:14 "Future engineering opportunities" 17:02:25 Xach: you win! 17:02:33 Guthur: what country are you in? 17:02:52 Fade, UK, but it's possible the customer was in the US 17:03:02 -!- H4ns_ [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:03:02 or anywhere actually 17:03:11 -!- dwim_ is now known as dwim 17:03:17 -!- gensym`` [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:03:20 UK HQ'd company but international clients 17:03:36 -!- cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has quit [Quit: -> home] 17:03:42 *akovalenko* hopes there is no country where bugs are regarded as holy animals.. 17:04:05 if suing over bugs was a viable course of action, Microsoft would be signifigantly smaller company. 17:04:17 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:21 MS had an issue with cows and india if I remember right 17:04:36 something XBox related I think 17:05:07 -!- zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:05:31 RaptorRarr [~Olathe@unaffiliated/olathe] has joined #lisp 17:06:30 ah it was Fallout 3 17:06:54 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:06:55 the 2 head Brahmin caused an issue 17:07:07 lol 17:07:34 someone's (incomplete) relational algebra implementation in lisp: http://lispdb.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/ 17:08:36 Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:48 jesu.. 17:09:52 that system is a mess. 17:10:45 which? 17:10:55 y es in español 17:10:59 wow. 17:11:10 I think portuguese rather 17:11:33 hmm, might be 17:11:56 either way we get things like "Builds a polynomial from a list of monomials and produce a canonical representation, e.g, monomials sorted by exponente descending." 17:12:01 but it's true it's a bit of a mess... however the idae is nice 17:13:15 I think the guy was just dumping all his files in one place 17:13:18 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-6-95.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:13:49 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925097237.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:13:55 cheezus [~Adium@ottawa-hs-64-26-155-215.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #lisp 17:15:15 urandom__ [~user@p548A2E4E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:19 albino: leffe? 17:18:02 nostoi [~nostoi@242.Red-79-156-53.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:38 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:19:13 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:19:40 A bit harsh being judgemental on source that was not released a complete solution, me thinks 17:19:51 Fade: see crc.lsp 17:21:39 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:22:14 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:23:12 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:23:24 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:24:37 -!- Guest33164 [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:25:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:26:09 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67.194.218.99] has joined #lisp 17:26:56 milanj [~milanj_@109-92-114-6.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 17:27:27 xristos [~x@2001:4968:200:0:5652:ff:fe55:7b51] has joined #lisp 17:27:37 hum 17:27:40 -!- xristos is now known as Guest38565 17:28:03 -!- Guest38565 is now known as xristos` 17:28:42 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.68.211] has joined #lisp 17:29:03 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 17:29:37 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-205-122.uio.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:30:12 Okay, lunch over, back to sorting out last night's mess... And then the mess from early last month or so. 17:31:27 -!- cheezus [~Adium@ottawa-hs-64-26-155-215.s-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:32:08 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:32:37 ah 17:33:37 vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:35:11 Fade: is all ok with the second law of thermodynamics? 17:37:08 seems to work. ship it. 17:38:52 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:39:19 cfa [~cfa@unaffiliated/cfa] has joined #lisp 17:40:04 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDDAF1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 17:40:12 -!- Ralith [~ralith@173-10-121-193-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:41:19 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:41:40 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.180.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:41:47 cheezus [~Adium@ottawa-hs-64-26-155-214.s-ip.magma.ca] has joined #lisp 17:41:52 morphism1 [~Nevermind@113.190.187.88] has joined #lisp 17:44:52 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:45:09 -!- morphism1 [~Nevermind@113.190.187.88] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:47:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:50:18 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@242.Red-79-156-53.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:51:40 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:53:48 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 18:00:47 TDT`` [~user@dhcpw81fffa9a.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:02:11 darq [~darq@cpe-94-253-199-156.zg2.cable.xnet.hr] has joined #lisp 18:02:26 -!- paul0 [~paul0@200.146.125.207.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 18:02:41 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:02:48 -!- TDT` [~user@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:03:02 mpelican [~mcp@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 18:03:15 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 18:03:44 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-131-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:06:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:08:13 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:44 -!- mpelican is now known as mickp 18:11:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:12:42 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:13:01 -!- gensym [~user@dslb-088-071-149-049.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:13:34 -!- darq [~darq@cpe-94-253-199-156.zg2.cable.xnet.hr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:15:11 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 18:19:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A70A6.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:25:52 Fade: is there a common lisp implementation for IRIX? 18:26:05 Posterdati: I think clisp can be compiled on irix. 18:26:13 ah 18:26:17 is it free? 18:26:39 clisp is free. 18:26:52 google for clisp irix 18:26:53 Posterdati: you'll have to invest some CPU cycles when compiling 18:27:04 ok, but I haven't got a c compiler on IRIX 18:27:06 :) 18:27:55 No bare cc even, with which to build a gcc? 18:28:25 http://gcc.gnu.org/install/binaries.html seems to link to some 18:28:30 -!- mickp [~mcp@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 18:29:09 ok I'm in an ssh session with a 6.5.22 machine :) 18:29:27 c_arenz [~arenz@dialin-212-144-128-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:29:49 hm, that might not help then 18:30:08 netscape -display athlon64:0 18:30:21 athlon64 is my machine :) 18:30:53 if the target it supported at all by GCC, it's likely to be possible to build intel-hosted cross-compiler binaries.. 18:31:09 *nyef* remembers being so excited when getting his first athlon64... and then having to run windows on it because none of the hardware was supported properly by linux. 18:31:32 nyef: I'm running only debian on it, works very well 18:31:40 Mmm... debian... 18:31:53 nyef: why not? 18:32:14 Oh! Right. I was going to see if a newer firefox or iceweasel was available in debian backports. 18:32:20 If you'd like to play with a non-x86 machine, why not try an ARM box, like the TrimSlice? 18:32:43 I hate arm 18:32:50 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67.194.218.99] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:33:09 Hrm... non-x86 machine? I think I'd like something that SBCL runs on. Not necessarily runs /well/ on, but runs on. 18:34:07 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:18 sadly sbcl doesn't run on arm yet 18:34:40 Posterdati: I always have a lot of fun writing ARM assembly, but if you hate it, that's a pretty strong reason not to get one, I suppose. 18:34:44 Posterdati, sadly, I'm not finding anything right off the bat to help you bootstrap that thing. 18:35:05 -!- dwim [~dwim@210.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dwim] 18:35:08 rme: it is an amazing processor, but I've got a bad experience on an str912 :) lol 18:35:08 oGMo: There are other compilers  18:35:31 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@dialin-212-144-128-208.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:35:36 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.146.59.164] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:35:42 sellout-: yeah ccl running on arm rocks right there 18:35:49 ChibaPet: I boot up it now 18:36:21 I mean, to bootstrap a development environment on it. 18:36:35 Zulu [~Zulu@c-174-58-204-235.hsd1.fl.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:48 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:36:54 ChibaPet: no space at all :) only 2 GB hd 18:36:56 lolol 18:37:08 2GB is huge 18:37:10 sellout-: tried building on android devices yet? ;) lisp-in-your-pocket would be nice 18:37:25 ChibaPet: but it's full of garbage 18:38:12 lisp-in-your-pocket? that sounds like it would be a neat implementation 18:38:15 pocket-lisp 18:38:31 ChibaPet: I could not set xdcmp correctly to make irix applications window run on my kde :( 18:39:46 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:39:46 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:39:46 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 18:42:21 oGMo: I know that SBCL doesn't run on ARM. I also know something about how to make SBCL run on ARM, but I presently lack the time to do anything about it. 18:43:24 nyef: yeah isn't the port log yours? 18:43:42 oGMo: Yes. Yes, it is. 18:45:38 easyE`` [1NtHdBe6GY@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 18:47:26 c_arenz [~arenz@dialin-145-254-251-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:27 Posterdati: I got clisp working 18:48:36 Fade: ok 18:48:37 I used gcc to compile it 18:48:45 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:49 I haven't returned to the question of lisp on irix in a long time. 18:48:58 gcc on irix? 18:49:28 sure 18:49:47 ok 18:49:54 this is interesting 18:50:02 I don't know how use that box... 18:50:07 there was also an archive of freeware for irix, which included clisp 18:50:17 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-3-214.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 18:51:02 Fade: I know, but first of all I've to make room for it 18:51:11 http://www.ve3syb.ca/software/irix/irix-gcc.html 18:51:24 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:51:29 that's obviously an old version. 18:51:41 i dunno if current gcc supports mips64 18:51:47 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:52:33 Fade: my machine is: CPU: MIPS R4400 Processor Chip Revision: 6.0 18:52:54 Fade 128 kB RAM lol :) 18:52:58 -!- TDT`` [~user@dhcpw81fffa9a.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:53:02 netbsd has a gcc4 port 18:53:07 so you might get it going. 18:53:08 That's a lot. 18:53:15 yes 18:53:23 Posterdati: Wow. I remember having 5k of "user ram". 18:53:37 (On a 6502, not a MIPS.) 18:54:11 nyef: sys64738 18:54:19 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@dialin-145-254-251-008.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 18:54:37 somebody is going to bring up hollerith cards any minute. 18:54:54 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 18:54:54 Fade: You just did, yes. 18:55:04 *akovalenko* thinks of RPN calculators (when I was a child...) 18:55:37 benny [~benny@i577A8A85.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:57:03 IRIX releases before 6.5 (mips-sgi-irix5*, mips-sgi-irix6.[0-4]) have been obsoleted as of gcc4.5 release series 18:57:24 obviously 18:57:44 anyhow, i have had clisp working on an octane2 running irix. 18:57:47 I run sgixdoom flawless 18:57:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 18:58:05 that's because your octane number increased 18:59:03 Mmm... Hydrocarbons... 19:00:49 yeah 19:01:41 *nyef* is reminded that this is the eighth month of the year. 19:03:43 -!- didi [~user@unaffiliated/didi/x-1022147] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:39 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 19:06:37 nyef: I don't know if I missed something, but we're in October. :/ 19:07:00 *rsynnott* assumes zero-based months :) 19:07:54 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.235.0] has joined #lisp 19:07:54 felideon: "septem", "octo", "novem", "decem" sounds like "seventh", "eighth", "ninth", "tenth" to me. 19:08:21 :D 19:09:09 for some it's the first month. l'shana tova! 19:09:58 Bwah? `(,@(map 'list ...)) ? What was I -thinking-?!? 19:10:35 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:46 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-177.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:20 jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has joined #lisp 19:11:55 paul0 [~paul0@189.26.131.120.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:12:03 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:12:30 haha nyef 19:12:32 weird 19:12:48 az_ginseng [~patryk@141.212.182.121] has joined #lisp 19:13:00 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:13:07 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-180-118.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 19:15:37 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:19:01 mickp [~mickp@216.243.156.42.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:08 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:23:18 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:23:42 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:24:42 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 19:25:09 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:26:30 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 19:26:51 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:28:13 -!- cheezus [~Adium@ottawa-hs-64-26-155-214.s-ip.magma.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:28:47 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-19.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 19:28:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:20 -!- surrounder [~surrounde@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:31:02 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:33:15 surrounder [~user@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 19:35:34 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:31 dwim [~dwim@210.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:53 hi, I'm looking for help with sbcl's gengc out-of-memory ("Heap exhausted during garbage collection") msg 19:44:01 Is there a reference for this table? 19:44:27 Gen StaPg UbSta LaSta LUbSt Boxed Unboxed LB LUB !move Alloc Waste Trig WP GCs Mem-age 19:45:14 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-131-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 19:45:16 sellout- [~Adium@ip-64-134-236-37.public.wayport.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:22 0: 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2000000 0 0 0.0000 19:45:32 5: 967 963 0 0 18301 13496 0 0 0 4162113792 5582592 4150047792 0 1213 0.9966 19:45:35 and so on... 19:52:55 It should be easy to find in the source code, fwiw. 19:53:11 I think it's the main table that tracks per-generation page statistics. 19:53:22 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:54:37 alkoma [~alkoma@c-98-207-166-94.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:44 does it make sense that lower numbered generations have 0 for "GCs"? 19:56:01 It looks like every generation is empty up to 5. 19:56:17 That I couldn't tell you. I was never especially versed in the complexities of the generation logic. 19:56:24 thx... I'll start grepping the source. 19:56:35 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:39 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 19:56:42 OK, thanks for the ptr. 19:56:44 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:56:56 -!- surrounder [~user@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:57:04 Good luck. 19:57:31 thx! 19:57:44 And now I have to run... Back in less than an hour, hopefully. 20:00:12 surrounder [~user@d130031.upc-d.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 20:05:49 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:07 gabnet [~gabnet@149.63.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 20:07:33 frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:08:32 -!- jjkola [~jjkola@xdsl-83-150-83-66.nebulazone.fi] has quit [Quit: Lähdössä] 20:16:56 -!- mickp [~mickp@216.243.156.42.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 20:19:34 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:19:49 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:01 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:25:31 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:26:14 dwim_ [~dwim@210.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:49 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-164-216.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:29:18 anyone familiar with sicp? 20:29:30 zvrba: what is it? 20:29:35 -!- dwim [~dwim@210.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:30:05 The book? Structure and Interpretation of Computer Programs? 20:30:58 yes 20:31:16 Posterdati: well, in chapter 2.5 where they make a generic arithmetic package 20:31:33 cheezus [~Adium@207.164.79.93] has joined #lisp 20:32:09 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 20:32:32 ah, nevermind. i got it :-) 20:33:05 marsell [~marsell@120.18.176.206] has joined #lisp 20:33:08 -!- dwim_ is now known as dwim 20:33:37 nipra [~nipra@122.169.14.133] has joined #lisp 20:33:39 but just to be complete, the say. e.g. (put 'sub '(rational rational) (lambda (x y) (tag (sub-rat x y)))) 20:34:05 so I was wondering why do they use lambda when they could have put just #'sub-rat 20:34:12 nipra_ [~nipra@122.169.14.133] has joined #lisp 20:34:16 but now I saw that the result has to be tagged too 20:34:18 zvrba: SICP does my head in every time. 20:34:29 -!- nipra [~nipra@122.169.14.133] has quit [Client Quit] 20:34:31 -!- nipra_ [~nipra@122.169.14.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:35:12 (compose #'tag #'sub-rat), I suppose 20:35:28 Bike: yeah, I don't know whether scheme/lisp have compose builtin 20:35:46 CL doesn't but everyone uses Alexandria, right? ;) 20:35:47 CL doesn't, and I don't think Scheme does either 20:36:06 I was just thinking that that might have been a better way to write it, maybe. 20:36:08 sellout-: what's alexandria? :P 20:36:18 It's a CL utilities library. 20:36:29 sellout-: seriously, I've browsed the docs and couldn't figure out why I would need it 20:36:55 everyone should be using it, it is just a quickload away 20:36:59 zvrba: It's just a bunch of little useful things  compose, curry, rcurry, mappend, etc. 20:37:17 zvrba: I usually need/want things like curry and ensure-list from there 20:37:23 sorry, I' 20:37:29 sorry, I've mixed it up with arnesi 20:38:47 arnesi has much less community wide use than alexandria, but provides much of the same stuff (pretty sure it pre dates widespread alexandria adoption) 20:39:40 bobbysmith007: ever get around to comparing hunchentoot and your custom ucw-based httpd? 20:41:40 how is &-stuff in function argument lists called? is it a predefined set of keywords? 20:42:04 zvrba: lamba-list-keywords 20:46:45 HG`` [~HG@p579F760A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:48 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:48:20 felideon: not really, I got so far as downloading ucw-core and looking through its backends (we are using an ancient branch of ucw-dev)... I liked the look of the io-lib backend, but other actual paid work came up so it got put aside for a while 20:48:49 its definitely something I still want to look into... just have no idea when I will have the day or two free time to get back to it 20:49:05 pnq [~nick@ACA298A6.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:49:16 ah gotcha 20:49:52 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05E9C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:52:31 Kron [~Kron@69.166.25.6] has joined #lisp 20:52:45 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.25.6] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:53:46 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 20:53:57 on the other hand, cl-csv / data-table will be seeing more improvements, as my current workload has me importing lots of csvs in various formats and with various data ugliness 20:54:34 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:31 heh 20:58:31 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-27-237.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:12 zvrba: sicp is a scheme book, so #scheme 20:59:49 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@ZYKMMMXXX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:21 Posterdati: #scheme is kinda dead. 21:02:38 Posterdati: and the problem was conceptual, not related to a particular language. 21:03:37 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:05:48 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:06:55 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:07:10 hm, alexandria looks useful :) 21:07:12 but, sleep now. 21:07:34 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:08:10 cheezus1 [~Adium@174-137-229-117.ip.tor.radiant.net] has joined #lisp 21:08:31 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 21:09:00 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.68.211] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:10:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@75-032.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 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realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:24:29 FirewalkR [~firewalkr@a85-138-111-67.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 21:25:23 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:26:33 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:26:34 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:26:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-43-194.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 21:26:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-43-194.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 21:26:45 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 21:28:23 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:29:34 What was beach's project to make modular components for CL implementations? 21:29:54 sicl? 21:29:58 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:30:19 Bike: ah, that's it. 21:30:35 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[~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:59:53 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:03 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-185-29.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 23:00:03 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 23:01:10 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:05:08 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:06:52 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 23:09:07 Right, time I went home for the evening. 23:09:09 -!- nyef [~nyef@c-174-63-105-188.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: G'night all.] 23:11:01 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-177-139.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:12:19 H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has joined #lisp 23:15:18 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 23:16:25 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.29.100] has joined #lisp 23:16:38 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-152-16.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:17:02 Joreji__ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:20:29 quick question, how do I get autoindentation with SLIME? 23:21:26 bind the RET key to newline-and-indent 23:21:51 or use C-j instead of return (: 23:25:22 jsoft [~jsoft@unaffiliated/jsoft] has joined #lisp 23:25:33 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:27:05 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:27:29 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 23:27:29 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 23:27:29 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 23:29:13 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:29:19 -!- Joreji__ [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:29:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 23:30:52 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:31:20 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-145-89.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 23:31:24 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 23:33:29 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.39] has joined #lisp 23:33:53 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:49 zmv_ [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:42:15 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:42:25 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:44:15 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:44:55 apropos indentation, where can i find information on how indentation can be customized? i'm particularily interested in making s-xml and s-sql indentation better 23:46:03 H4ns: the slime-indentation has come a long way 23:46:13 the contrib, I mean 23:46:21 I guess that would be the best-documented place to look 23:46:27 antifuchs: ok, so i load the contrib and then look at the source, right? 23:46:31 antifuchs: thanks! 23:46:33 H4ns: if s-xml and s-sql use CL pretty printer for indentation (as I would expect), then CLHS is a good source 23:46:41 (also, there's a customization thing in it that is neat) (: 23:46:49 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:55 -!- zmv_ [~daniel@c95339f3.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:47:11 has SLIME anything to do with XML or SQL indentation at all? 23:47:24 akovalenko: i don't suppose so, no 23:48:01 akovalenko: basically, what i need to change is the indentation of forms that start with a keyword in the function position so that it is not taken for a function invocation. 23:48:27 H4ns: then antifuchs answer is a good one 23:48:52 *H4ns* has got a nice task fot tomorrow :) 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