00:00:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-96-97.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:00:38 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-96-97.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 00:01:19 -!- Sepok` [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:01:43 -!- jpop [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 00:02:26 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 00:03:20 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:03:21 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 00:04:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:04:31 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:06:37 what does the -K flag do in clozure? 00:06:40 I wish I could just man it 00:09:25 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 00:11:48 (setq slime-net-coding-system 'utf-8-unix) what would be the windows equivalent to this? 00:12:20 -!- dsevilla [532b4be7@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.43.75.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:14:05 <|3b|> same thing 00:14:42 <|3b|> (unless you happen to be using a lisp with support for dos line endings and for some reason want to send extra data over the connection for no good reason) 00:15:40 -!- khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15:41 <|3b|> important part is just that both sides agree about it and don't try to send anything that it can't encode 00:16:13 okay :3 00:16:15 thanks! 00:17:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:17:38 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 00:17:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 00:19:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 00:19:55 _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 00:26:28 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:27:38 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:36 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:34:15 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 00:35:05 emef [~user@c-76-28-168-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:37:11 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:42:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 00:42:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 00:42:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 00:43:50 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 00:47:19 -!- topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.140] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:51:29 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:52:03 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-70-112.lns20.syd6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:52:12 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 00:54:28 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has left #lisp 00:58:41 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:59:25 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA21052.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:59:27 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.140] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:59:54 frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:00:19 pnq [~nick@ACA2DF3C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 01:00:23 what is/are the best lisp books? 01:00:40 frhodes: practical common lisp is pretty good. so is paradigms of ai programming. 01:01:16 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.140] has joined #lisp 01:01:21 I like On Lisp but it's rather... Graham-y 01:01:30 the man is opinionated, to put it bluntly 01:05:35 cool 01:09:40 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 01:09:55 -!- emef [~user@c-76-28-168-250.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:01 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 01:14:29 -!- mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:14:42 mon_key [~user@unaffiliated/monkey/x-267253] has joined #lisp 01:18:02 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: dobranoc] 01:23:54 gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-130-151.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:24:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:25:05 i need to learn how to use structs, i know they aren't very complicated but i don't even know the right questions to ask. any good advice on where to begin? 01:28:26 I don't use structus, I use CLOS 01:28:34 what are you using structs for? 01:28:46 o.o 01:29:39 tali713: you'll know when you need them. 01:33:29 http://www.psg.com/~dlamkins/sl/chapter03-10.html I really like this guide, scroll down to "Structures let you store data" and the bit after 01:33:47 wait, that may be the wrong page 01:33:58 anyway, Successful Lisp is really nice 01:37:31 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 01:38:32 hmmm 01:41:00 zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 01:42:41 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:52:35 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 01:56:53 topo__ [~topo@f053039245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:59:11 -!- topo [~topo@f053034030.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:59:11 -!- topo__ is now known as topo 02:00:06 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:06:59 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:09:52 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:05 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:31 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 02:13:12 -!- MeanWeen is now known as Moderator 02:13:20 -!- Moderator is now known as Moderators 02:14:13 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:42 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:20:16 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483CAFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:22:15 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483C48B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:25:36 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-96-97.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:26:18 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-96-97.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:19 How do compiler macros differ from regular macros? Lisp, the Language implies they are for implementation tweaks only (efficiency, compatibility) though the mechanics seem the same. 02:32:30 PCL and On Lisp don't seem to mention them at all, which is kinda odd. 02:32:31 <|3b|> compiler-macros are optional, and don't prevent you from having a function of the same name (which you could for example funcall) 02:33:22 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.67.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:33:23 hmm. who/what chooses whether they are used? 02:33:24 <|3b|> (optional in that the compiler is allowed to ignore them, so they shouldn't change the behavior of whatever the function with the same name normally does) 02:33:39 ah ok, gotcha 02:33:39 <|3b|> if you aren't compiling, they probably won't be used 02:33:49 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.44] has joined #lisp 02:33:51 thanks 02:33:54 <|3b|> if the function is declared notinline, they definitely won't be used 02:34:01 <|3b|> anything beyond that is up to the implementation 02:34:45 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:35:06 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:38 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:42:15 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.120.64] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:45:52 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:49:19 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:50:07 khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:56:24 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 03:01:44 pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@cpe-68-173-230-170.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:03 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:02:33 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:37 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:03:52 -!- frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:03:56 frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:09 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:04:25 -!- frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:06:41 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ienytawbmmjpeeed] has joined #lisp 03:10:16 triliyn [~desmond@76-206-56-151.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:10:28 hiii 03:11:02 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:17:09 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2DF3C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:17:53 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:27:07 hmm 03:27:21 guys, I'm trying to quickload lispbuilder-sdl 03:27:28 and it's failing halfway through and throwing up an error message 03:27:39 Unable to load foreign library (SDL) 03:27:46 Do you have that foreign library? 03:27:54 I don't know... 03:27:59 it's asking for sdl.dll? 03:28:06 <|3b|> yeah, you need to get the SDL dlls and put them somewhere the lisp can find them 03:28:10 I think I've had that problem before with a 64-bit clozure trying to load a 32-bit dll 03:28:12 okay sure 03:28:32 libtcod though, not sdl 03:28:37 Took me FOREVER to figure it out 03:28:45 XD 03:28:45 <|3b|> lispbuilder might have some pre-built dlls available 03:28:55 And then I still never got it fixed 03:29:15 I tried to compile a 64-bit version but I'm too lazy and there's no 64-bit windows release 03:29:42 okay 03:29:47 now I need to uninstall lispbuilder-sdl 03:29:52 and re-install it properly 03:29:55 D; 03:29:57 what's the quickload command for unloading? 03:30:03 cause I told it to skip the dll last time 03:30:03 <|3b|> shouldn't need to uninstall it 03:30:09 meaning my lispbuilder is crippled 03:30:15 <|3b|> just try to reload it again once the DLLs are in the right place 03:30:31 it doesn't KNOW where I placed the SDL.dll file 03:31:22 okay I used ql:uninstall 03:32:25 vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 03:32:50 -!- Moderators [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:33:47 hmm 03:34:26 Kron: thanks for that link, it definitely gets me started. 03:35:35 :3 03:35:38 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 03:35:39 you're welcome 03:35:47 okay I'm having an error like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/96937 03:35:57 except replace OGG with SDL 03:36:04 I can't tell where to put my recently downloaded SDL.dll 03:37:16 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:38:43 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Client Quit] 03:40:13 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:43:11 okay creepy 03:43:17 I put SDL.dll into Windows32 03:43:19 and it vanished D: 03:43:21 mysteriously 03:43:39 hehe 03:43:48 Are you showing hidden files? D: 03:43:58 Maybe it's all "hehe, I should hide this :D" 03:44:09 Because it is a gremlin or something D: 03:44:21 yes! 03:44:44 Yes meaning "I am showing hidden files" or "Windows is a gremlin"? 03:45:07 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1723] 03:45:27 I am showing hidden files 03:45:29 :P 03:45:35 hehe, right :$ 03:46:12 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 03:46:36 Let's say i am currently using a function like this on a board I represent as an nXn list of lists, (defun get-board-pos (x y board) (nth (1- x) (nth (1- y) board))) . is there a better way to define this? perhaps i have been looking in the wrong place. 03:47:02 and by this i mean the board. 03:47:05 <|3b|> 2d array would probably be nicer than nested lists 03:47:26 <|3b|> then it could just be (aref board x y) 03:47:28 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A630.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:29 yeah 03:47:40 arrays sound like the smartest way to store a simple 2D block of positions 03:47:45 unless it was a sparse matrix 03:47:57 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326781.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:47:59 and then you probably want a totally different setup (some sort of dictionary) 03:48:04 <|3b|> (assuming you aren't doing anything clever with sharing structure between multiple boards or whatever) 03:48:06 certainly, it was more the defining of a type i was curious about. 03:48:33 oooh, sharing structure would be a funny way to implement like... portals or something 03:48:35 so do you want the array definition? 03:48:38 Probably not worth it but still funny 03:49:06 :P 03:49:13 Kron: nah, i understand arrays in common lisp. it's how defstruct creates setters and getters that i am trying to understand. 03:49:27 kay 03:49:34 personally, I use CLOS 03:49:42 I find it to be much more powerful than defstruct 03:49:58 http://cl-cookbook.sourceforge.net/clos-tutorial/index.html 03:50:17 undoubtedly, i am not quite ready to tackle that though. :) sooner or later. 03:50:21 I have never had to use CLOS but it seems cool XD 03:51:04 I came from python and it was really interesting to compare it to python classes 03:51:06 I use CLOS for even simple programs 03:51:09 and it works... really well o_o 03:51:15 D: 03:51:20 like I remember building a tree implementation system via CLOS 03:51:23 and it's incredible 03:51:26 hehe 03:51:29 because it means I can slot in different kinds of trees 03:51:34 underneath the generic function 03:51:43 and all my programs reprogram themselves and use the new trees 03:51:51 hmmm 03:52:03 it's nice having abstraction to the point that none of my programs know what any of their data structures look like 03:52:12 XD 03:52:17 and since there are like 1500 tree algorithms, all similar to each other 03:52:23 loads of my tree functions share code 03:52:32 and multiple inheritance helps loads 03:52:42 hmmm 03:53:35 anyway =/ 03:53:46 still trying to get Lispbuilder running 03:53:56 SDL.dll >_< 03:54:01 why don't you quicklooad? 03:54:09 i might have to take a look at clos sooner. thanks for ideas. 03:55:16 anytime I find myself making a defstruct, I just use CLOS 03:55:28 it's barely any larger, and in the long run I want to reach back and shake my past self's hand 03:58:37 -!- rme [rme@696C65D6.F26E1912.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 03:58:37 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:00:23 :x 04:00:28 okay online guides are crazy 04:00:40 "SDL.dll missing? REFORMAT YOUR COMPUTER" 04:00:45 *Kron* rolls eyes 04:00:49 hehe 04:01:34 <|3b|> might try (push "c:/path/to/sdl-dll-dir/" cffi:*foreign-library-directories*) and then quickload lispbuilder again 04:01:35 -!- lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.87.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:01:48 <|3b|> (Adjusting path as needed, since you probably didn't put the dll there) 04:01:54 That's what I think I ended up doing too 04:02:20 lemoinem [~swoog@216.252.94.137] has joined #lisp 04:02:28 *|3b|* doesn't remember where it would normally look on windows 04:02:55 -!- topo [~topo@f053039245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:03:04 <|3b|> probably either the dir where the lisp executable is, or where you started it from or something 04:03:26 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 04:03:34 oooh 04:03:35 okay 04:04:25 <|3b|> those would be my other suggestions if the other thing didn't work or didn't help 04:04:33 start [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:20 can't find that cffi variable =/ 04:06:00 Do you have cffi loaded, independently of trying to load lispbuilder? ...does lispbuilder's loading even use cffi? 04:06:13 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:06:13 I'm using quicklisp 04:06:15 I have no idea 04:06:21 it was so quick and intuitive up to this point 04:06:24 Are you sure that's its name? I think it MIGHT be something different 04:06:25 where I run into a brick wall >.< 04:06:32 kinda a microcosm of my lisp experience 04:06:44 smooth breezy sailing until suddenly it violently kicks you between the legs 04:06:56 <|3b|> yeah, (ql:quickload :cffi) and try that (push ...) again 04:07:04 hmmm, no, I guess that's the right name D: 04:07:33 <|3b|> or try dumping the dll in the dir with the lisp executable 04:07:44 ooh now it exists :D 04:08:29 The variable? :D 04:08:57 yes! 04:09:01 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 04:09:01 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 04:09:01 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 04:09:35 "Error opening shared library c:/Users/Kron/Lisp/SDL.dll : %1 is not a valid Win32 application. ." 04:09:39 at least the error is different now 04:09:58 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 04:10:22 >_< 04:10:27 so much for quicklisp being so quick 04:10:28 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-204-21.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:10:33 I'm thinking of just giving up on this 04:10:36 superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.189] has joined #lisp 04:10:51 D: 04:10:53 <|3b|> quicklisp is quick, installing C libs is a hassle :p 04:11:25 yes 04:11:30 but THIS is a hastle 04:11:33 <|3b|> lisp libs that are wrappers around C libs like lispbuilder-sdl inherit that hassle unfortunately, and not much quicklisp can do there 04:11:33 everything else installs fine 04:11:42 CFFI, Usocket, etc. 04:11:55 quicklisp works great on eeeeeverything except it grinds to a halt with SDL.dll 04:11:59 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-21-243.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:12:06 x.x 04:12:15 Actually isn't it CFFI that's failing to load the library? 04:12:47 Like I know you're using quicklisp but I'm pretty sure that's how it does that 04:13:02 <|3b|> are you running ccl 32bit or 64bit? and 32 or 64bit OS? 04:13:26 64 bit 04:13:39 wx86cl64.exe 04:13:41 <|3b|> os and ccl? 04:13:47 <|3b|> is it a 64bit sdl.dll? 04:14:16 how can I even tell? 04:14:23 there's only one SDL.dll on the site 04:14:39 <|3b|> dunno, maybe right click on it and see if properties says? 04:15:03 nothing 04:15:14 hrngh 04:15:15 *|3b|* guesses probably 32 bit, might try 32bit ccl 04:15:30 and the lispbuilder site has no tutorial for CCL 04:15:34 only CLISP and SBCL 04:16:45 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WoW64 XD 04:17:38 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-157-187.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:19:44 :( 04:19:50 this is not very heartening 04:20:02 I can't even install lispbuilder, let alone anything more complex on top of it 04:20:13 Anyway, Kron, I don't think this is quicklisp because I was having a similar problem a looong time ago when I was using asdf 04:20:31 Or at least I think it was similar 04:20:32 I thought lispbuilder had windows support 04:20:40 Admittedly my memory is kinda fuzzy 04:20:43 and now somehow asdf is making emacs hang 04:20:50 <|3b|> it does, but you can't load 32bit dll from a 64bit lisp 04:20:54 D: 04:20:54 tab-completion of an asdf function has frozen the whole thing 04:20:58 ah =/ 04:21:02 but well 04:21:06 where does it even LOOK for DLLs? 04:21:25 <|3b|> sounded like you got it to at least find the dll before 04:21:43 That cffi:*foreign-library-directories* thing should show you most of them I think 04:21:51 Maybe all. I'm not sure how cffi works. 04:22:08 <|3b|> that just adds places for it to look by hand, normally it just asks the OS to find them 04:22:14 Although actually I don't know how much of that is handled by quicklisp 04:22:18 Oh, does it? :$ 04:22:20 Okay then 04:22:47 How do you figure out where it's looking? Or can you not? 04:23:42 -!- vlion [~user@76.178.165.160] has left #lisp 04:23:53 okay trying 32 bit ccl 04:24:17 oooh 04:24:43 ... 04:24:44 o_o 04:24:46 it completed? 04:24:49 :D 04:24:53 let me test it 04:25:03 That's another of the solutions I tried 04:25:15 Except I wanted to use 32 bit clisp, not ccl 04:25:24 But I was too lazy to figure out how to set it up with slime :$ 04:27:44 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 04:30:12 it's not working properly =/ 04:30:15 though it's trying 04:30:17 the window is there 04:30:21 there's just no image on it 04:30:32 anzime [~defkurtz@ip70-176-48-167.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:39 D: 04:31:26 <|3b|> maybe check *inferior-lisp* buffer for messages if you are running from slime? 04:32:15 <|3b|> or try different examples, might just be something wrong with the one you tried 04:33:09 =/ 04:33:12 maybe 04:33:17 two of them don't work though 04:33:28 even when I modify them to fix what seem to be pathing issues 04:37:21 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:40:05 -!- anzime [~defkurtz@ip70-176-48-167.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:49:01 Wow, I just realized there are like more people in here than I think any channel I've been in so far D: 04:49:20 it's sort of common on freenode and for channels like this. 04:49:20 Well, except maybe #haskell, but that was like once 04:51:36 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has quit [Quit: rme] 05:00:19 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:31 wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.83.160] has joined #lisp 05:21:20 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:29:41 Ivoz [Ivoz@unaffiliated/ivoz] has joined #lisp 05:29:43 j sicp 05:30:02 -!- pinkwerks [~pinkwerks@cpe-68-173-230-170.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:31:59 topo [~topo@f053039245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 05:32:04 cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.76] has joined #lisp 05:32:04 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.17.76] has quit [Changing host] 05:32:04 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 05:32:22 ah, but do all the folks in haskell say anything, or are they invariantly idle? 05:32:47 moaning in pain at every net split due to state change 05:32:56 Lots of them were saying stuff D: 05:33:17 hmm, they must have achieved a method of monadic communcation 05:33:31 One of them said something about a proof of the law of the excluded middle using call/cc 05:33:50 hm 05:33:50 Also monads can TOTALLY do communication and states and stuff 05:33:53 yes 05:33:54 ...what? 05:33:56 I jest, naturally 05:33:57 Haven't used them much 05:34:00 They're awesome though 05:34:05 My favorite is the list monad :D 05:34:12 I think Haskell is intriguing. I've not yet studied Haskell, but everything about it sounds quite compelling 05:34:22 Yeah, it's pretty cool! 05:34:24 and I sense that I often end up writing pseudo-Haskell anyway 05:34:29 I haven't really done anything in it 05:34:33 since I tend to hit the pipes pretty hard when I'm shell scripting 05:34:40 But I've read Learn You a Haskell 05:34:48 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.76.6] has joined #lisp 05:35:03 Yes. I keep meaning to read a few books on it, but since I have no immediate practical need it the books I do have sit on the shelf 05:35:09 It's probably like... my second favorite language now 05:35:13 hehe 05:35:28 The type system is really cool 05:35:43 I was talking to a fellow on another irc server who evangelized it. he was saying he makes games in it, which seems like the application that might interest me the most 05:35:51 I used to steer clear of languages with static typing but haskell's is like... really fun :D 05:35:52 hmm 05:35:53 It's like math! 05:36:01 I'm not sure of any games which could use haskell 05:36:11 I'm using lisp for my games, mostly because I like lisp a lot 05:36:16 well, I've seen games written in Clojure which are similarly stateless 05:36:16 and they involve many AI agents 05:36:16 I know someone who's written games in haskell 05:36:37 I mean, heck, I played Monadius (a gradius clone in Haskell) and it seemed quite swell on the whole. 05:36:45 XD 05:36:55 Monadiuuus 05:37:05 hmmmmm 05:37:06 Was it like a burrito? :O 05:37:18 do people on #lisp or #lispgames (LOL) ever get together and build games together? 05:37:23 I think sharing code may work well 05:37:42 I remember I've read about some kind of lisp games contest 05:37:42 there's a lispgames wiki, check around there? 05:37:48 And yeah a wiki 05:38:59 <|3b|> we pretty much all already have our own projects, so not as much collaboration as there could be at the game level :( 05:39:12 I don't agree 05:39:21 if multiple people are working on 2D games 05:39:27 we can share art or engine code 05:39:35 stuff like that 05:39:37 <|3b|> 'if' 05:39:38 http://www.bay12games.com/dwarves/index.html#2011-10-01 XD 05:39:52 <|3b|> dto does 2d games, syko does text games, i do 3d web games, etc :p 05:39:57 hehe 05:40:02 <|3b|> and none of us do art :p 05:40:22 <|3b|> not to say there aren't libraries that lots of people work on 05:40:47 I'm following SICP, trying to make a generalised SUM function that can count up or count down; however figuring out how to know when to stop is causing me trouble. Anyone have any clues? http://codepad.org/WmAkjB0D 05:41:01 -!- khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 05:41:43 3d web games? :3 05:41:45 <|3b|> Ivoz: looks like scheme, which #scheme knows more about than #lisp (which is mainly about common lisp) 05:42:01 yeah I think we're all lispniks here, not schemers 05:42:10 <|3b|> Kron: that's the idea, not that i actually get much done in that direction :/ 05:42:13 SICP is scheme, yeah, but it's not really that hard to read, is it? 05:42:19 heh 05:42:24 persevere, |3b| <3 05:42:32 <|3b|> well, #lisp answer would be 'use iteration' :p 05:42:36 XD 05:42:38 I mean really the only difference is define instead of defun, but that's not too hard 05:42:42 true that 05:42:53 Common Lisp is rather... practical 05:42:56 it's something I like about it 05:43:05 it's willing to get its hands dirty in imperative code 05:43:11 the atheist in the religious war 05:43:22 #scheme is currently just talking about R7RS, and nothing else.. :( 05:43:26 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:43:35 well, what's your code supposed to do? 05:43:54 there's no documentation on that code 05:43:54 <|3b|> #lisp would also say "use long variable names" 05:43:57 LOL 05:43:59 yes 05:44:02 "a" 05:44:04 "u" 05:44:11 they're tricksy to understand 05:44:19 metasyntactic variables? 05:45:02 How is it failing exactly? 05:45:11 Oh wait 05:45:21 "Output: 1 | 0" 05:45:54 I'm debating about smoking more weed 05:46:05 or eating food 05:46:07 or both 05:46:09 Ivoz: ( (w x) (> w x)) looks particularly useless. 05:46:10 yes, I was thinknig about documenting it so every makes sense to you guys as well as me, but I also managed to jiggle it just enough to work 05:46:10 haven't had dinner yet 05:46:13 Weed + Lisp = madness 05:46:16 that path lies madness 05:46:24 soon you'll prototype skynet.fasl 05:46:31 haha 05:46:56 Weed + [lisp-dialect] sounds like something I should try 05:47:10 "The brackets mann... like whoaaaa.... 05:47:12 @.@" 05:47:12 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.83.160] has quit [Quit: ] 05:47:37 I once read that lisp enlightenment occurs when you look at lisp code and you don't even see the brackets anymore 05:47:40 it's just... lists 05:47:44 Weed + Chicken Scheme 05:47:49 only good things can happen? 05:47:51 I think every lisp programmer hits that point after a year or so 05:47:58 chicken scheme? 05:48:10 it's a scheme compiler. 05:48:18 Lol, lady gaga is trying to make bulleying illegal 05:48:20 wtf 05:48:34 this has gone to far? hasn't gone far enough? 05:48:55 Kron: chicken makes scheme more viable in a work environment :-) 05:49:01 zvrba: yes, turns out simply '>' and '<' substitute for those. *Brain clinks another cog into functional mindset* 05:49:03 isn't that common lisp? 05:49:05 your boss comes and says "is that scheme" 05:49:09 scheme + practicality = common lisp 05:49:18 run chicken, and say "no it's c" 05:49:19 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:49:33 hrm, i've been looking into erlang 05:49:35 common lisp is scheme after it's had a drunken hangover and is having a drunken 'moment of clarity' 05:49:43 i'm interested in server design 05:49:46 they were developed around the same time... 05:49:48 clarity_ it's just a case of crappy parents = kids with absolutely no morals whatsoever 05:50:12 ivoz: common lisp? 05:50:27 clarity_ the lady gaga thing 05:50:29 -!- start [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 05:50:37 oh that makes sense 05:50:45 Ivoz: so what are you trying to implement? 05:51:04 Exercises in SICP probably 05:51:14 ya, but which one? 05:51:21 This is a generalized sum function? 05:52:06 Looks like it takes a lower bound and an upper bound and a couple functions and uses them to compute successors until they're above the upper bound 05:52:15 littlegiraffe [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:52:20 And calls a function on each one and adds the results 05:52:26 Except that's not the order it does it in 05:52:47 And I don't know how it's supposed to work because I am too lazy to pay full attention :$ 05:52:50 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:53:23 zvrba: does this make more sense? http://codepad.org/KYFIHJ8o 05:54:02 zvrba the whole PASSED stuff is so you can count down instead of up, if you wish 05:55:17 -!- Kron [~Kron@69.166.23.238] has quit [Quit: Kron awayyy!] 05:55:31 Your if is equivalent to either (if > ...) or (if < ...), doesn't it? 05:56:13 triliyn there's probably a neater writing of it, but I'm not sure exactly what you're referring to 05:56:19 I think it should be (if ((passed-case) j b) ...) or something 05:56:32 Ivoz: it's still overly complicated. 05:56:41 Basically you have a function where there should be a boolean I think? 05:56:43 What's the point of passed-case? 05:56:43 Ivoz: you don't need passed-case either. 05:56:53 Also passed-case doesn't need to be a function I think 05:57:29 Ivoz: iteration has current counter value, limit counter value and next function. 05:58:04 (set! passed-case (passed j b)) (if (passed-case j b) ...)) if I remember my scheme correctly 05:58:08 in other words, rewrite it as while (current != limit) { ... current = next(current); } 05:58:24 for example 05:58:26 zvrba: what if they're never equal? 05:58:31 ^^ 05:58:41 triliyn: you arrange so that they are. 05:58:45 Like what if they're floating points and there are precision errors? I've run into that exact problem before 05:59:05 (if (if (< a b) (> j b) (< j b)); skips needing the whole passed and passed-case stuff 05:59:25 triliyn: ah, i assumed sum would work only over integer indices :p 05:59:27 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-37-119.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:56 Ivoz: or you can just swap a and b if a > b and be done with it :p 05:59:57 zvrba you can have a custom next function, like +2, instead of incrementing 06:00:21 (SUM1 id 1 (+ 2) 6) 06:00:24 Anyway, I should probably go to bed D: 06:00:32 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:00:35 then you write the loop only for incrementing counter values 06:00:42 It's kinda late and my mom just made me take drowsy medicine =/ 06:00:43 byeee 06:00:51 it seems like a bad design to allow the user to specify inconsistent parameter values 06:01:01 like, sum from 3 to 10, but the increment is -2 06:01:12 -!- triliyn [~desmond@76-206-56-151.lightspeed.irvnca.sbcglobal.net] has left #lisp 06:01:38 As long as you're generalizing summation, you should allow people to pass in the < function... and then everything else, until you're written scheme in itself again, I suppose. 06:01:53 if you want a _function_ to specify the increment, you also need a _function_ to test whether the stopping value has been reached. 06:02:39 b represents the stopping value 06:03:00 so you just need to ask if a has reached the opposite side of it 06:03:17 Ivoz: what happens if i specify an increment of 0? 06:03:29 oh, I give up. 06:03:34 The you know that it's not going to work, presumably? 06:03:36 read what I wrote just above. 06:04:17 zvrba then my function will do an infinite repeated sum ^_^ 06:04:49 Bike: you can test against the previous value of the sum / function, in case you want to approximate the value of an infinite series. 06:04:49 zvrba you don't like that design? 06:05:11 Bike: i'm just arguing that the stopping criterion has to be a _function_ 06:05:21 Bike: instead of a number. 06:05:31 Ivoz: no, i don't. i already wrote that and I wrote also why. 06:05:33 so you'd like to be able to chuck a fixed point function in there 06:05:39 for example 06:05:53 zvrba: makes sense 06:06:21 Ivoz: i wouldn't like anything. it doesn't make sense to allow arbitrary increments, but constant stopping value. 06:06:48 Ivoz: and this directly reflects in the .. "ugly" implementation. 06:06:50 Does to me >_> 06:07:26 http://codepad.org/g14cKJkz looks a lot nicer 06:07:32 it also makes sense to some people to believe in god. 06:08:36 Non sequiter 06:08:47 *ur 06:08:52 rainyrhy [~rainyrhy@bb119-74-189-92.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 06:09:17 Ivoz: If I pass your function a zero increment, it will just never return. Is this the behavior you want? 06:09:32 basically, yes 06:09:54 I'm not against an arbitrary stopping function, though; what would you pass it? the last and current values of a? 06:12:47 I suppose. Normally I'd recommend just having it do what you need it to, but since this is an exercise... 06:13:16 you need to give it the information it needs to stop 06:13:40 i mean, what's the point of summing downwards? sum is commutative and associative. 06:13:41 you could just pass it the current value of a, which would be fine for say (< b), but not enough for a fixed point 06:13:51 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:13:57 <|3b|> why not just separate the 'generate a sequence' and 06:14:03 I thought it would be a cool thing to do 06:14:04 <|3b|> and 'sum a sequence' parts? 06:14:37 streams ftw? :D 06:14:40 <|3b|> (reduce + (iota start end step)) or whatever, possibly with lazy lists if you don't want to build a whole list 06:16:36 I think I should probably go back to learning fundamentals now 06:16:39 :) 06:16:46 but thanks for all the thoughts, everyone :) 06:29:47 Ivoz_ [Ivoz@203-129-26-202.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #lisp 06:29:47 -!- Ivoz_ 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[~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-120.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:47 dbushenko [~dim@147-229.vpn.aichyna.com] has joined #lisp 08:11:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-96-97.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:11:44 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@59.41.113.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:15:14 gaidal_ [~gaidal@59.41.113.213] has joined #lisp 08:17:05 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-244-70.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:17:15 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-125.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:20:16 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:23:25 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 08:23:29 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:23:37 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:25:56 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-244-70.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:27:38 abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.19.182] has joined #lisp 08:30:19 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:31:18 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 08:34:13 bozhidar` [~user@93-152-182-45.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has joined #lisp 08:34:25 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 08:35:59 -!- bozhidar [~user@93-152-182-45.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:38:46 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:39:00 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.52] has joined #lisp 08:39:08 hey guys 08:39:10 :D 08:41:25 -!- bozhidar` [~user@93-152-182-45.ddns.onlinedirect.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:41:32 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 08:44:41 Hi morphism 08:45:09 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:45:18 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 08:45:45 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 08:47:43 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:46 Madsn [~madsn@x1-6-00-18-4d-a9-aa-10.k249.webspeed.dk] has joined #lisp 08:49:00 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:51:11 yakov [~yakov@176.14.242.250] has joined #lisp 08:51:28 akovalenko, you there ? 08:52:33 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 08:53:29 I have just replaced the "eval" with only setf ( will soon replace w/ Defparameter via defmacro - now I knew what I truely need) , and the performance has been increased very significantly ! 08:54:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:58:25 ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has joined #lisp 09:06:13 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.100.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:06:28 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:08:34 -!- yakov [~yakov@176.14.242.250] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 09:11:36 -!- Ivoz [Ivoz@unaffiliated/ivoz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:11:46 Ivoz [Ivoz@203-129-26-202.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #lisp 09:11:46 -!- Ivoz [Ivoz@203-129-26-202.cust.aussiebb.net] has quit [Changing host] 09:11:46 Ivoz [Ivoz@unaffiliated/ivoz] has joined #lisp 09:13:37 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-145-119.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:21:56 morphism: why do you want to be able to generate new variables at run time? are compiling code at runtime, too? 09:25:14 any way to make sb-ext:run-program work with a binary output stream? 09:25:19 -!- mishoo__ is now known as mishoo 09:26:03 -!- Madsn [~madsn@x1-6-00-18-4d-a9-aa-10.k249.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:29:08 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-153-46.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 09:30:55 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 09:30:57 -!- abhinav [~abhinav@122.172.19.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:14 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:38:11 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:38:14 (flexi-streams:with-output-to-sequence (out :element-type '(unsigned-byte 8)) 09:38:14 (run-program "notmuch" args :search t :output out) 09:38:14 (flexi-streams:get-output-stream-sequence out)) 09:38:22 fails with: Don't know how to copy to stream of element-type FLEXI-STREAMS:OCTET :-\ 09:38:38 mishoo: please don't paste to the channel. use paste.lisp.org 09:39:01 H4ns: yeah, sorry, I thought 3 lines is not too much 09:39:16 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 09:39:31 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:39:42 two lines is already too much 09:40:55 mishoo: even if no other conversations are going on, code pasted to the channel can't easy be copied and pasted to a repl. please don't do it. 09:42:41 jan-- [~jan__@p5B377299.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:43:37 -!- jan-- [~jan__@p5B377299.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:44:12 jan-- [~jan__@p5B377299.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:31 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 09:52:12 wolf__ [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has joined #lisp 09:54:43 -!- wolf__ [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:55:08 wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has joined #lisp 09:56:49 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:16 wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has joined #lisp 09:58:21 -!- rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:58:39 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483CAFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:01:38 -!- mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:04:00 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483CAFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:04:48 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:06:05 rvncerr [~rvncerr@rvncerr.org] has joined #lisp 10:06:30 -!- jan-- [~jan__@p5B377299.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:07:22 mgr [~mgr@mail.phinn.de] has joined #lisp 10:08:03 -!- Ivoz [Ivoz@unaffiliated/ivoz] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:08:14 Ivoz [Ivoz@203-129-26-202.cust.aussiebb.net] has joined #lisp 10:08:14 -!- Ivoz [Ivoz@203-129-26-202.cust.aussiebb.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:08:14 Ivoz [Ivoz@unaffiliated/ivoz] has joined #lisp 10:10:43 -!- DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.29.100] has quit [Quit: DaDaDosPrompt] 10:13:27 found this after much googling: http://code.google.com/p/irc-logs/source/browse/trunk/logs/freenode/lisp/2011/2011-07-28?spec=svn55&r=55#1426 which appears to be a sucky solution, but at least there is something.. :-\ 10:18:28 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-znacswzovawcxwrn] has joined #lisp 10:19:14 -!- akovalenko [~user@89.222.169.233] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:19:52 ollkorrekt [~ollkorrek@212.233.134.135] has joined #lisp 10:22:01 -!- rainyrhy is now known as rainyrhy_away 10:22:27 lisptips *and* slimetips are awesome! 10:22:30 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 10:23:47 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 10:23:57 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 10:25:37 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:28:49 H4ns_ [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has joined #lisp 10:30:54 -!- H4ns [43174196@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:32:05 I'm wondering whether there is a way to assign a nickname to a package within another package? 10:32:13 e.g. 10:32:37 (in-package :my-package) 10:33:06 (long-package-name:foo) 10:33:14 = 10:33:20 (lpn:foo) 10:33:25 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.133.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:34:05 Would such a thing make sense? 10:34:24 i think there is no standard way to do it. you could try creating a full defpackage form by introspecting the package and then recreate it with your new nicknames. 10:34:27 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.114.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:34:30 that'd be useful. 10:34:46 ebw [~user@krlh-5f7276f7.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:34:55 Shouldn't be that hard to do. :) 10:34:56 theBlackDragon [~dragon@212.71.14.133.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:38 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-160-242-21.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:35:48 Problem would be that the nickname would be global. 10:35:50 jtza8: COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.CESARUM.PACKAGE:ADD-NICKNAME 10:36:52 Not that this is a problem as such. More of a thought. 10:38:45 ah, there is rename-package 10:38:55 so it is even easier than i thought. 10:39:04 https://github.com/3b/package-local-nicknames/ 10:39:23 H4ns_: read again clhs rename-package. It's not so easy to use it. 10:39:31 Notably: (rename-package "A" "A") is undefined. 10:39:45 pjb``: easier than recreating the defpackage form in any case 10:39:55 -!- H4ns_ is now known as H4ns 10:40:28 *jtza8* loves CL. 10:40:43 Awesome. 10:47:03 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:50:55 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-160-242-21.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:51:24 Guthur_ [~Guthur@host86-160-242-21.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:51:25 urandom__ [~user@p548A2360.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:48 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:56:27 -!- dbushenko [~dim@147-229.vpn.aichyna.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 10:56:51 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-znacswzovawcxwrn] has left #lisp 11:00:32 -!- littlegiraffe [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:02:07 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-061-110.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:05:24 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:06:22 -!- ollkorrekt [~ollkorrek@212.233.134.135] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:06:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:07:32 replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:08:04 stassats: is package-local-nicknames api-stable yet? i know |3b| has been working on it, wasn't /that/ long ago... 11:08:12 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:09:50 ask |3b| 11:14:56 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:15:03 -!- Guthur_ [~Guthur@host86-160-242-21.range86-160.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:16:29 H4ns: how frequently does the planet lisp twitter bridge poll? 11:16:42 Xach: lemme check 11:17:36 Xach: every *cough* minute 11:20:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:20:22 that is pretty frequently 11:20:31 i guess so. 11:21:16 thing is, i'm not keen on changing it because i'm also monitoring the service automatically. it is being polled by my hosting provider frequently, and i want it to report failures quickly 11:21:25 is the polling frequency a problem for you? 11:21:34 nope, was just curious 11:21:39 that's only 1440 requests a day 11:21:44 ok. then let's keep it that way. 11:21:49 i added lisp & slime tips to the planet and they were tweeted quite rapidly 11:22:23 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:22:25 cool, i'm finally at plate lisp 11:22:30 planet 11:22:41 *pinterface* hopes to one day be cool enough for Planet Lisp. 11:24:04 you just need a blog to be cool nowadays 11:25:09 hm, the cl-tips tweets don't look pretty :( 11:25:52 I went back and added titles to avoid that 11:26:05 cool, thanks! 11:26:07 *Xach* didn't want titles, but they are too ugly in feeds without 11:26:42 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:26:58 zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 11:27:17 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 11:29:14 *Xach* wondrs what tweets look like 11:29:31 you want me to re-tweet? 11:30:08 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 11:30:23 stassats: I /have/ a blog (LiveJournal)! I'm still not very cool. :P 11:30:46 pinterface: what is cool anyway? blog something interesting about lisp, be on the planet. 11:31:06 vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:34:07 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:34:14 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 11:35:19 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 11:35:29 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:35:41 H4ns: no, there's a tumblr->twitter bridge. looks like it shows title + snippet 11:36:21 Xach: so you've removed the tumblr feeds from the planet? or should i filter? 11:36:23 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:36 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:36:55 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:36:56 H4ns: no... 11:37:05 Xach: no and no? 11:37:07 :) 11:37:12 oui 11:37:22 this is getting confusing. 11:37:33 H4ns: when i publish on tumblr, tumblr pushes to twitter, and planet lisp pulls from tumblr rss, and planet_lisp pulls from planet to twitter 11:38:12 ok, well, you've lost me. let me know if there is anything i can do to improve the feed 11:38:55 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:38:59 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-145-59.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:40:14 It should work fine now. 11:40:20 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:40:25 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-56.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 11:41:45 todun [~todun@seasnet-58-02.seas.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 11:43:27 H4ns: http://twitter.com/#!/lisptips/status/120461797600923648 is what tumblr posts to twitter, and http://twitter.com/#!/planet_lisp/status/120463353553498112 is how it looks via planet lisp. i like the latter more. 11:44:30 Xach: so do i. i hate arbitarily truncated text 11:45:34 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:45:43 krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has joined #lisp 11:45:43 -!- krl [~krl@rymdkoloni.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:47:02 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:47:05 to some extent i'd personally prefer the tips not to be linked through planet.lisp.org, just casting a vote where no votes can be cast. 11:52:39 Xach: Lisp Tips is pretty cool. Great idea. 11:53:19 Its dailyness seems rather ambitious. 11:55:20 I have 1000 tips, so it will probably only last a couple years. 11:57:49 When you run out, just rename to "forgotten lisp tips" and loop. 11:58:30 Xach: wow, really? How did that happen? 11:59:06 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.244.30] has joined #lisp 11:59:16 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:59:16 -!- Bwaah [bwaah@unaffiliated/bwaah] has quit [*.net *.split] 11:59:25 hello 11:59:49 hagish [~hagish@82.113.99.3] has joined #lisp 12:04:01 *madnificent* didn't think it would last more than a year, so i'm glad to hear there's a thousand 12:04:31 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:31 Bwaah [bwaah@unaffiliated/bwaah] has joined #lisp 12:05:00 yello Kenjin 12:06:03 :) 12:06:45 Could someone take a look please? http://paste.lisp.org/display/125008 I'm having trouble understanding why this errors. If I recompile the find-element function the error goes away 12:07:25 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 12:07:26 Are there projects other than stumpwm using clx? 12:08:38 ebw: you prolly want to qualify that with an attribute like "current", "vital", etc. 12:08:52 -!- gaidal_ is now known as gaidal 12:09:48 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-0-254.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:10:31 ebw: i'd assume so. clim has a clx backend, i'd assume. 12:11:07 you can probably get some/many things that use clx through some introspection of what quicklisp offers 12:12:16 -!- Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:12:16 -!- Bwaah [bwaah@unaffiliated/bwaah] has quit [*.net *.split] 12:13:32 Thats a good idea 12:13:37 I'll try that. 12:17:19 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:17:40 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-160-56.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:20:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:20:30 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 12:21:33 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:31 who was it that built some tools on top of quicklisp in order to get some more information on what's in there. someone was building a set of scripts for it, no? 12:32:55 ikki [~ikki@189.247.120.64] has joined #lisp 12:35:06 bgs100 [~ian@h45.109.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:06 -!- bgs100 [~ian@h45.109.187.173.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Changing host] 12:35:06 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:35:08 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 12:36:03 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@rc.simula.no] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:36:15 Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 12:40:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:40:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 12:40:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:42:22 i'm trying to figure out a way to handle control-flow in a setting which uses lambda-functions as callbacks. i receive a single lambda function (which i'll name callback for now) which decides whether or not a certain result is to be called before another result. furthermore i receive the n functions which all accept a lambda function to receive one result at a time. whenever that lambda function returns, it receives the next result 12:42:23 (or the function which received the lambda function returns). now i'd like to figure something out which would first let all lambda functions generate one result. then it should pick the 'best' result and call the callback function on that. it would then have to return from the lambda function which generated that 'best' result and receive the next result. it should do this until all functions have returned. now how would i 12:42:23 possibly handle such a control flow? the only thing i can imagine right now is using the condition system, but i think that'll be slow and i think i should be able to do it in another fashion regardless. any hints? 12:43:00 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:43:14 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:43:32 sigh, i hate it when i make mistakes in explenations like this. the callback function is the function to be called with the 'best' currently available result. 12:44:00 so i'm basically wondering: how could i combine lambda functions in a way that lets me decide when they should return to their caller. 12:47:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:48:48 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:43 madnificent: I don't get what you mean by "it would then 12:49:44 have to return from the lambda function which 12:49:44 generated that 'best' result and receive the next 12:49:44 result".. 12:51:06 meh, bad paste.. Anyway if I understand you right, you are looking for continuations, but CL does not have them 12:51:22 maxm---: the n functions which i receive all accept a lambda function. this lambda function is called m times. each time it is called it receives a new result. in order to receive the next result, the lambda function needs to return, so it can give control to the function that called it. 12:51:46 maxm---: would that mean that it is inexpressible? 12:53:58 So something like generator, ie... 12:54:00 maxm---: also, you are right, i'm looking for continuations :) 12:54:36 (defun callback (cnt) (dolist (i cnt) (yield i)))? 12:54:39 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:55:23 CL is unable to do this unfortunately, scheme does. 12:55:43 is there a way to work around an issue like this? 12:56:52 In Paul Grahams On Lisp he builds some kind of continuation support for his prolog interpreter/compiler 12:56:59 i could obviously collect all results and then start selecting, but i'd rather not for efficiency reasons 12:57:08 ebw: hmm, i should probably check that 12:57:31 Chapter 20 is namen "Continuations" 12:57:55 Just re-think your way around it, basically it all comes having a state.. have an explicit state, like a class, and methods get-first-value (returns a state) and (get-next-value) 12:58:00 But it is clumsy. 12:58:08 or pass an explicit state argument.. 12:58:51 then wrap it all with a macro 12:59:15 madnificent: also check out "iterate" library 13:00:19 i don't think iterate supports anything like this 13:00:26 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 13:01:00 maxm---: i still don't know how to handle it with some explicit state, the issue stays the same, i think. i need to figure out how to 'block' a function and return from it without unwinding the stack. 13:01:31 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-156-165.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:28 *madnificent* checks out chapter 20 of on-lisp 13:03:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 13:03:16 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 13:03:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:03:17 madnificent: But be sure to read it all, he starts with continuations in scheme and then explains how to build *some* support for something similar in cl. 13:05:51 yeah, the chapter explained it, it's not too big and i've always wanted to spend time on it. searching the ebook reader to put it on right now :) 13:05:59 madnificent: with state, you basically rewrite your function, so that instead of single loop doing "yield" statement, you keep your data in a separate state object: (defclass generator () ((from) (to))) (defmethod next ((state generator)) (with-slots (from to) state (when (< from to) (return incf from)))), then call it like so: (let ((generator (make-instance 'generator :from 0 :to 10))) (loop for value = (next state) while value do 13:05:59 (print value))) 13:06:05 -!- superflit [~superflit@140.226.4.189] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:06:05 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 13:07:57 that replaces the (defun make-generator (from to) (lambda () (loop for i from from to to do (yield i)))), and (let ((generator (make-generator 0 10))) ... calling looks the same, except its (funcall generator) rather then (next ...)) 13:08:36 maxm---: that just moves the problem to the state generator, which then needs to figure out how it can start a particular lambda function once again 13:08:53 madnificent: get it into your head that you can't 13:09:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:09:41 maxm---: so you're basically saying, rewrite the whole thing which accepts lambda functions as a callback, but you're making it look like you're solving the question, correct? 13:09:44 madnificent: there is no way to arbitrary jump into the function at the point it exited from.. That is continuation and CL just does't have them 13:09:58 ok, then i understand what you're saying 13:09:59 thanks 13:10:03 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 13:10:07 -!- topo [~topo@f053039245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:10:14 *madnificent* reads what paul graham has to say on the topic and sees how far he gets from there on 13:10:43 madnificent: I researched this topic extensively, coz I have a cl-cilk package, that has same requirement.. I ended up using a code walker, that transforms entire thing into a huge tagbody, with a manual PC counter and dispatcher in front 13:12:10 maxm---: i'll likely have to work around it, but i'm going to see what others have done before throwing code around :) 13:14:50 madnificent: well if you are dead set on using continuations, there are libraries that emulate them by using code walking, arnesi is one I think 13:17:02 topo [~topo@f053039245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:18:26 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 13:19:35 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:20:12 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:20:29 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.90.224] has joined #lisp 13:20:42 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 13:21:30 But what i don't get is, why does your "callback" function needs the state? ist its just a binary predicate function? 13:22:12 ie what does prevent you from calling your N functions, collecting result into the list, then doing (sort #'callback list) 13:23:15 so your callback becomes instead of: (let ((best nil)) (lambda (new-one) (when (is-better-p new-one best) (setq best new-one))))... 13:24:13 you just use (sort (mapcar #'funcall functions) #'is-better-p) 13:27:43 or you can use: (reduce (lambda (a b) (if (is-better-p a b) a b)) (mapcar #'funcall functions) :initial-value nil) 13:33:09 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:34:19 Kron [~Kron@69.166.23.238] has joined #lisp 13:36:02 Sepok [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has joined #lisp 13:40:07 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-127-247.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:53 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.17.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:40:54 luis: 1000, give or take 1980 13:42:26 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 13:46:13 maxm---: either that would make me collect all values first (after which it is trivial, but i may run into memory issues) or i'll still have to figure out a way to make one of the callbacks return when i want them to return. 13:47:41 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:05 maxm---: or am i missing something on that front? 13:50:13 maxm---: i think i'm going to follow your suggestion of transforming the interface, though i'm not going to do it right away 13:53:21 Nshag [user@chl45-1-88-123-84-8.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:21 Bwaah [bwaah@unaffiliated/bwaah] has joined #lisp 13:57:54 madnificent: how about (let ((best nil)) (dolist (foo functions) (let ((candidate (funcall foo))) (if (funcall callback candidate best) (setq best candidate))))) 13:58:43 madnificent: the basic idea is, instead of keeping "best" variable closed over inside your "callback" lambda, just make it external to it, and pass it to the callback, making it essentially a binary predicate function 13:59:44 maxm---: every time the lambda function is called, it receives a new value. every time the lambda function returns, it will be called once again. as i have more than one lambda function, i'd still have to figure out a way to decide which lambda function will return. 14:00:18 -!- Amyn1 [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 14:00:47 if i'd be the one controlling when the lambda function was to be called, this would be trivial, but now i should be the one controlling when it returns, which makes it relatively complex. or at least, i don't see a clear path for solving this problem. 14:00:56 meh now I'm confused again, "every time lambda function is called" do you mean the callback one (that compares results?) or one from the list of functions? 14:01:40 wait, i'll try to reformulate 14:03:21 i receive N functions, each of which take a lambda function (let's call these lambda functions the collectors). i have a lambda function which compares two results (call that comparator). i receive one lambda function (named the callback) which should always be called with the 'best' currently available value, as indicated by the comparator. 14:04:09 do you want `callback' to be called N times, each time with best result so far? 14:05:27 so far I don't see a problem: (let ((best)) (dolist (...)) metaphor works so far), but I sense another message coming with the complicated part 14:05:34 under the assumption that each of the collectors is colled M times, i'd want to have the callback called N*M times. 14:06:14 so you want to continue calling the collectors again, after going thru all of them once? 14:06:53 and you want them to restart from the point they returned their last value? 14:07:01 however, when the callback is called with the result of the lambda function, the next result of that lambda function should be compared with all other results. so i can't just let the N functions all return once and then pick them in the right order. 14:07:06 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.244.30] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 14:08:17 ok, the part where you want to continue "polling" the collectors was what I was missing from your previous descriptions 14:08:21 the collector which is called should return and the function that called the collector should call it again with the next result, so the stack must be maintained (or at least, i don't see a way around it) 14:08:57 maxm---: i think my description was ambiguous, so you didn't misread or anything 14:09:13 it would've been simpler otherwise 14:11:08 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 14:11:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:12:30 well I'm a bit out of ideas, but basically extracting state that make collectors return different values when called multiple times, and passing it around manually 14:14:08 yeah, i think what you proposed in the beginning is the only way to really work around it. paul graham's solution requires an mvb like construct which must always keep the same nesting, i don't think that that'll work. i'd need to bang my head more on the desk to be sure though. regadless, i'll be implementing the ugly thing first (sadly) 14:15:58 maxm---: thanks for the help 14:16:12 same goes for you ebw 14:17:09 Madsn [~madsn@x1-6-00-18-4d-a9-aa-10.k249.webspeed.dk] has joined #lisp 14:18:56 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:19:04 pnq [~nick@AC819B15.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:20:07 madnificent: np...Sometimes "dumb" solutions are the best ones.There is an old joke about a kid asking his professor father: "how do you put elephant into refrigirator in 3 steps", after thinking for a while he responds "you can't", and the kid says: "Its easy, silly! 1. Open refrigirator. 2. Put elephant. 3. Close refrigirator" 14:20:22 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:20:43 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-127-247.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:20:47 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:23:00 hello. I've asked about this in the past but I lost the code someone gave me. can someone take a look and see what I'm doing wrong? I want to create a string-or-nil CFFI type that automatically converts nil to (null-pointer) and vice versa 14:23:06 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125010 14:24:17 maxm---: :P 14:24:27 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-127-247.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:30:15 akovalenko [~user@95.73.220.72] has joined #lisp 14:31:22 zardoz8: I think (or str-or-nil ...) needs to be (if str-or-nil (call-next-method) (null-pointer)) 14:31:47 because otherwise you just returning the string without any conversion 14:32:28 thanks let me try 14:33:29 similarly the opposite method also need same adjustment, ie (call-next-method) rather then str 14:34:55 (call-next-method) just returns a string 14:35:08 the same one I passed 14:35:48 IIRC my type is suppose to inherit from something, but I forgot what. I had a working code and I lost it :| 14:36:15 don't see anything resembling string-type in cffi package 14:40:18 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 14:42:30 hmm no clue then, /me had not played with defining cffi foreign types.. You sure you testing it right? There is a default method on (T T) that just returns itself 14:43:02 so IMHO you passing wrong thing as the 2nd parameter when testing it.. test it by actually calling something 14:43:04 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 14:43:40 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-76-82.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:44:37 -!- gienah [~mwright@ppp121-44-130-151.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:46:30 zardoz8: are you trying to implement "optional argument that may be NULL" for CFFI? came here in the middle of discussion, sorry 14:46:45 actually try cffi:foreign-string-type 14:47:16 akovalenko yes sort of. I would like to pass nil instead of (null-pointer). also I'd like to have nil returned instead too 14:48:06 zardoz8: take a look a http://paste.lisp.org/+2OGK 14:48:17 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-127-247.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 14:48:29 zardoz8: with my "maybe" wrapper, (maybe :string) type specifier will do what you want 14:48:54 *akovalenko* hopes that he pasted all relevant code here.. 14:49:36 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:50:23 that is a lot nicer if it works the way I think it does. the way I thought about doing it I'd have to have pointer-or-nil, string-or-nil, window-or-nil etc 14:50:24 zardoz8: oh, I didn't define translate-from-foreign for this type, so NIL is handled for arguments only, not for return values 14:50:58 zardoz8: I started with string-or-nil and other such stuff, yes 14:51:08 heh CLOS rocks like that 14:51:47 well, at least my code could be a hint at what you're looking for 14:51:51 -!- Madsn [~madsn@x1-6-00-18-4d-a9-aa-10.k249.webspeed.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:53:46 whats the eval part for? Would not it call it every time, since its not a macro 14:54:31 the way it looks to me it will call (eval "blah") every time you pass ita string constant, which in SBCL is pretty expansive as it will setup the compiler and everything 14:54:45 maxm---: expand-from-foreign is used by CFFIs compiler macros (only) 14:55:33 ah 14:56:08 maxm---: it's supposed to provide an efficient extension for some cases (btw, I'm probably wrong when I return (null-pointer) constant from it: Such pointers might not be fasl-dumpable ) 14:56:20 *s/extension/expansion/ 14:57:29 oh I am getting the same error as earlier. let me paste a test case 14:58:38 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:36 do you think lisp is better for recursion than other languages? 14:59:41 -!- topo is now known as topobot 15:00:18 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125013 15:00:42 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-127-247.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:07 am I using it wrong? 15:01:37 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:03:44 zardoz8: I think you need cffi:foreign-string-type instead of :string.. I don't think :string is actual type 15:05:28 I don't have that symbol in cffi package 15:05:55 and tab completion doesn't give me any similar ones 15:05:59 # has no external symbol with name "FOREIGN-STRING-TYPE" 15:06:00 it turns out that I've used it for deftypes most of the time (as of strings, I deftyped lpwstr to be an :ucs-2/le string) 15:06:22 and never used it for :string specifier directly 15:06:27 topobot: i think that lisp is better than other languages at anything 15:06:45 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:51 zardoz8: foreign-string-type is an internal symbol in current CFFI 15:07:53 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 15:08:40 zardoz8: I've tried to avoid internal symbols (hence my deftypes), but you may be lucky with cffi::foreign-string-type 15:09:35 getting this now. *** - Unknown CFFI type: CFFI::FOREIGN-STRING-TYPE. 15:11:19 zardoz8: try (deftype mystring :string), (maybe mystring) 15:12:18 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:13:30 zardoz8: sorry, doesn't help. I'm trying to figure out how it works for me, probably missed some code :) 15:13:46 yes shame 15:15:44 does that actually work inside whatever project you used "maybe"? (maybe :string) 15:16:25 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 15:18:17 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 15:19:10 it makes sense it doesn't work, translate-to-foreign is only called if value is nil. so I have the same problem as with the cost I pasted when I asked the question. string is being passed instead of c pointer 15:19:22 as with the code 15:20:32 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:20:57 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:21:13 -!- easyE [ukVodzlZMt@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:22:16 ok he is missing this: (defmethod translate-to-foreign (value (maybe maybe)) (translate-to-foreign value (actual-type maybe))) 15:22:17 15:22:17 15:22:24 add it, and it works (with (maybe :string)) 15:23:32 maxm---: precisely 15:24:08 maxm---: thanks for helping in reorganizing my old code :) 15:24:38 this calling (actual-type) business recursively is weird, not sure if bad design or some reasoning behind it on cffi prt 15:24:40 part 15:25:40 probably explained in documentation somewhere 15:25:51 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-163-30.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 15:26:34 wow it worked. :) 15:26:45 had to do cffi::actual-type, but works great now 15:27:16 thanks to both. this is a lot more elegant than what I was planning to do 15:28:42 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:29:19 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:29:43 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:30:11 zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:30:49 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:33:35 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:33:48 zardoz8, maxm---: there is also a less hairy solution that I use sometimes: (defctype (:wrapper :string :to-c my-simple-null-filter)) 15:34:08 with (defun my-simple-null-filter (thing) (or thing (null-pointer))) 15:35:12 the unobvious part here is that a pointer *is* allowed (and translated trivially) for :string arguments 15:35:26 ..as well as for other pointer-based CFFI types 15:35:27 zmv_ [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:37:13 *akovalenko* wonders why cffi developers not made null-pointer into a symbol macro 15:37:30 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:32 i wonder why they didn't just use nil 15:38:07 seems like an obvious choice 15:38:20 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:38:57 it doesn't seem, how would you translate it to the underlying FFI system? 15:39:00 zardoz8: underlying FFI interface typically distinguishes NILs and null pointers 15:40:03 I see, I'm not familiar with FFI 15:40:54 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:41:21 it's interesting that SBCL's alien types (native FFI) handle NIL as NULL. 15:42:47 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:43:30 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2360.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:47:22 http://paste.lisp.org/display/125013#1 is this the right way to write translate-from-foreign for maybe? it appears to work 15:47:30 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 15:48:07 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:48:38 plus (defmethod translate-from-foreign ((value null) (maybe maybe)) (maybe-default maybe)) 15:49:15 I need to learn more about CLOS I have trouble understanding any of this code 15:49:29 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Client Quit] 15:51:38 zardoz8: pasted translate-from-foreign is correct, but we'll never receive NIL as an argument there, so additional ((value null)..) method is not needed 15:51:57 ah right. it's a pointer 15:52:37 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-163-30.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:53:54 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:54:27 Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.247.100.41] has joined #lisp 15:54:50 -!- Cloud_ is now known as cesarbp 15:56:14 -!- topobot [~topo@f053039245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:56:49 topo [~topo@f053039245.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:56:51 errr 15:56:55 how do you halt a lisp interpreter again? 15:57:01 there's a character for it isn't there? 15:57:08 timack [~timack@hlfx59-1-137.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 15:57:16 EOF you mean? Ctrl+D 15:57:26 no I mean 15:57:32 say my program is in an infinite loop 15:57:35 how do I make it stop? 15:57:41 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-96-97.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:51 repl or slime? 15:58:10 Ctrl+c if first Ctrl+c+c in slime 15:58:44 slime 15:58:48 thanks! 15:58:52 welcome 16:00:47 is there a slime shortcut tutorial? :( 16:00:59 I have to relearn all my old keys 16:01:11 also, have you seen the movie Zardox? o_o 16:01:12 C-h b 16:01:14 *Zardoz 16:01:28 oooh 16:01:29 Kron: slime-tips.tumblr.com has cool tips too 16:06:36 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 16:08:30 -!- pnq [~nick@AC819B15.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:10:28 foog [~Brucio-12@oh-74-5-138-168.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:33 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 16:13:48 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:14:49 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:15:23 easyE [46hsE67thb@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 16:15:50 hey guys 16:15:59 how do you tell the lisp compiler that a variable is only gonna be an integer? 16:16:01 etc.? 16:16:04 anddam [~anddam@151.70.8.46] has joined #lisp 16:16:07 hello 16:16:29 Kron: DECLARE? 16:16:34 thanks 16:17:54 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 16:21:23 -!- todun [~todun@seasnet-58-02.seas.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: :q] 16:21:51 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 16:22:11 why is sbcl complaining about (defun class () .. ) ? there is no (cl:class) function 16:23:12 zardoz8: see http://l1sp.org/cl/11.1.2.1.2 16:23:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:23:26 zardoz8: item #2 16:23:40 I see thanks 16:23:52 Arm [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has joined #lisp 16:25:07 Kron: INTEGER isn't that useful: implementations don't have to check these assertions, and it's hard to specialize code usefully to handle both machine integers and arbitrary precision bignums. 16:26:36 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:27:45 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:27:48 pkhuong: "implementations don't have to check" applies to any declaration (SBCL developer may forget this fact, of course :) 16:29:27 akovalenko: that's what I'm saying. 16:29:38 INTEGER may be useful for type inference: even if a compiler can't do something useful to integer itself, it will know more about (mod 17) than without the declaration 16:29:38 *Xach* fixes that by never using anything but sbcl 16:30:00 akovalenko: that's pretty contrived. 16:30:22 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx59-1-137.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:30:24 pkhuong: except that I've seen it in real life 16:30:43 dwim [~dwim@117.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:00 same here, but only a very small number of times. 16:31:26 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:31:38 when I'm optimizing, it's normal for me to begin by declaring some "roots" only, and rely on type inference to fill in the blanks 16:33:51 style question, should (defun find-window (title) ..) function return nil or throw a condition if the window with the passed title wasn't found? 16:34:24 zardoz8: whatever makes sense in how it's going to be mostly used. 16:34:32 zardoz8: both choices are sensible, and there is a third one: errorp argument 16:34:35 zardoz8: several cl functions have an errorp option. 16:34:43 then you can choose at call time 16:34:57 ah ok, interesting 16:36:04 pkhuong, I know, I was just giving an example 16:36:16 I was looking for DECLARE 16:36:17 akovalenko: it is especially normal to profile first :) 16:36:18 can you name one such function btw? just to see it's interface, and what it does by default 16:36:25 from standard 16:36:26 I am recently getting into lisp after a year out of it 16:36:31 I have all these concepts in my mind 16:36:35 Why did you get out! No! 16:36:36 but I forgot the names 16:37:21 pkhuong: as of type inference for INTEGER, it may depend on how frequently you want to recode (mod .. (ash 1 n)) into logand :) 16:37:38 Xach: this is the time to start shouting autist 16:37:45 s/autist/like an autist/ 16:38:00 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 16:38:00 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:38:00 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 16:38:43 -!- foog [~Brucio-12@oh-74-5-138-168.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Client Quit] 16:38:46 zardoz8: find-method, find-class 16:39:10 urandom__ [~user@p548A5939.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:13 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:40:54 zardoz8: read*, approximately 16:41:09 asdf:find-system 16:41:14 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:42:45 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:17 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:20 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:25 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.17.213] has joined #lisp 16:47:32 zardoz8: read-line is a very clear and simple one to test, offering both errors and an alternative symbol to return when the end of the file occurs. 16:48:31 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:48:59 MrUnagi [~mrunagi@c-76-29-207-245.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:31 srid [u3297@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vaqhrrcsdjvdmvkt] has joined #lisp 16:52:00 shouldn't lisppaste be around? 16:53:10 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:53:53 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:54:57 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:55:32 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [] 16:55:32 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 16:56:00 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:58:32 -!- MrUnagi [~mrunagi@c-76-29-207-245.hsd1.ga.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 17:01:22 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:01:55 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:11 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:04:52 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_nop 17:09:30 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 17:10:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.17.213] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:10:13 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:26 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-19.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:13:14 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.52] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:14:06 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 17:14:11 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:23 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.100.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:15:48 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 17:17:25 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:17:48 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:24 hmmmm 17:19:28 I'm using clozure 17:19:40 every time I try using save-application, the inferior lisp crashes 17:20:20 Kron: I believe its supposed to be that way. 17:20:39 oh? Interesting 17:20:47 is there any way to save it without crashing it? 17:22:37 Kron: if you're using save-application, it's better to write, say, a little script that takes care of compiling and loading your project and immediately dumping an image. 17:22:45 instead of saving your development image through SLIME 17:23:00 well, I'm trying to see if it even works right now :x 17:23:28 a script is a superior alternative by far, but I want to muck around with save application by hand first and see how it functions 17:23:45 then it's supposed to kill itself :) 17:24:51 okay :3 17:25:05 SBCL manual mentions the process corrupts the current running image, I was trying to find similar info on the clozure manual, but can't seem to find it 17:25:35 ditto, I'm not sure CCL is actually supposed to do the die part. 17:25:42 right 17:25:46 it isn't save-lisp-and-die 17:25:54 also it's not working properly 17:26:33 test.exe keeps asking for test.image 17:26:40 Kron: I thought this might be a "feature" several implementations shared :P 17:27:11 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:27:15 Couldn't load lisp heap image from C:\Users\Kron\Lisp\test.image: No such file or directory 17:27:19 well, it certainly quits after saving, for me. 17:27:26 Kron: how are you invoking save-application? 17:27:33 This is running C:\Users\Kron\Lisp\test.exe 17:27:41 (save-application "c:/Users/Kron/Lisp/test.exe" :toplevel-function #'run-engine :prepend-kernel t) 17:27:55 run-engine is a basic sdl test 17:28:01 makes a window, displays some squares 17:28:40 sweet 17:29:20 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:21 *sykopomp* headscratches. 17:30:36 why is it asking for a separate image file? 17:30:44 shouldn't it be a standalone executable? 17:30:48 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:30:56 I was basically co-opting code from here: http://code.google.com/p/lispbuilder/wiki/StandAloneExecutables 17:32:29 Madsn [~Madsn@x1-6-00-18-4d-a9-aa-10.k249.webspeed.dk] has joined #lisp 17:35:58 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45766193.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:11 -!- rme [rme@696C65D6.F26E1912.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 17:38:11 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has quit [Quit: rme] 17:38:22 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:39:15 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:46:17 -!- Arm [~arm@unaffiliated/grpala] has left #lisp 17:52:09 Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483CAFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:53:04 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 17:54:22 *akovalenko* found something interesting in his old CFFI "attic": http://paste.lisp.org/+2OGO -- WITH-ALIEN and ADDR, reimplemented for CFFI 17:55:45 gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-120-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:56:45 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483CAFB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:57:17 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:57:59 Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-36-85-36.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 17:58:36 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:58:52 good evening everyone 17:59:25 hi fe[nl]ix 18:01:25 ..maybe goodtimeofday() system call can make a useful innovation.. 18:03:27 -!- clarity_ [~clarity@174.134.17.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:04:35 hi Blkt 18:05:15 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:07:40 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.220.72] has left #lisp 18:07:48 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:43 akovalenko [~user@95.73.220.72] has joined #lisp 18:10:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:11:42 akovalenko: that's very interesting (the with-alien clone) 18:16:23 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:32 clarity_ [~clarity@174.134.17.212] has joined #lisp 18:17:42 benny` [~benny@i577A7A23.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:18:37 -!- benny [~benny@i577A15DB.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:19:01 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 18:22:04 -!- BrokenCog [~daniel@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:25:09 frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:27:24 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-ienytawbmmjpeeed] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:28:12 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 18:29:34 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:29:35 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45766193.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:31:32 BrokenCog [~daniel@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 18:36:43 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 18:36:56 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 18:39:47 lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:39:47 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:51 -!- dwim [~dwim@117.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dwim] 18:40:41 -!- lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 18:41:44 lanthan [~ze@i5E878529.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:42:15 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:43:43 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 18:44:13 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:11 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 18:48:10 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-107.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:50:45 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.90.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:50:54 Is there a CL equivalent of the C atexit? I'm using foreign memory via CFFI which I wish to deallocate before leaving CL. 18:52:01 (if it would make a difference.) 18:52:17 jtza8: think that's implementation dependent, like sb-ext:*exit-hooks* 18:52:51 jtza8: unless you're saving an image, I don't see the point. 18:53:40 Thanks Bike. 18:53:48 pkhuong: That may come into it. 18:53:53 asdfasdf123 [~asdflkjds@67.169.7.215] has joined #lisp 18:53:57 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:54:14 ... but I suppose I could just "initialise" it when the image is loaded? 18:54:49 jtza8: right, if you're saving an image, the goal is to ensure correct re-initialisation. 18:54:50 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:55:01 Ok 18:55:40 jtza8: it's always better (if at all possible) to allocate a memory around your application's "main loop", not allocate on startup and free on stop. 18:56:24 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:56:28 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 18:56:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:57:10 paul0 [~paul0@200.146.125.207.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 18:57:23 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:00:34 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-015-117.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:43 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:04:54 -!- ljames [~ln@unaffiliated/ljames] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:07:13 doing some maintenance on the box running cliki. the service will be right back. 19:10:02 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:41 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:01 -!- gensym 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20:05:36 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.62.2] has joined #lisp 20:11:09 akovalenko [~user@95.73.220.72] has joined #lisp 20:13:30 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-167-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:30 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:00 -!- Sepok [~user@d83-183-51-82.cust.tele2.se] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:14:27 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:53 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-169-125.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:02 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-169-125.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:16:13 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:16:29 -!- ebw [~user@krlh-5f7276f7.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:17:03 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-015-117.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:17:06 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-169-125.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:31 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-169-125.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:43 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 20:17:51 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:19:47 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.138.187] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:19:58 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:20:52 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:54 yakov [~yakov@95-24-241-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:23:25 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:28:33 pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has joined #lisp 20:29:03 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 20:29:29 I understand that lisp functions are pass by value. I'm having a hard time trying to figure out how to pass a list as a parameter within a function... I tried setting the variable with setf, but I keep getting a message that it is unbound. I've also tried using let, but what is passed is continually nil. Can anyone offer me any suggestions? 20:29:56 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:30:41 Blkt` [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-36-92-79.clienti.tiscali.it] has joined #lisp 20:30:47 -!- dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:32:01 just... pass it? I don't understand what's wrong 20:32:13 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 20:32:28 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-36-85-36.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:32:42 anvandare: never mind :) 20:32:47 I figured it out thank you 20:32:57 yay ;p 20:35:53 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:36:08 Kron: "07:55:19 is there a slime shortcut tutorial? :(" <-- There's M-x slime-cheat-sheet! (I'm surprised it doesn't get mentioned more often.) 20:36:38 ah! 20:36:39 thanks! 20:37:40 pitlimit: you got it a bit backward, in lisp everything but fundamental types such as numbers are passed by reference 20:37:48 lists are basically pointers to the 1st cell 20:37:56 so... it's pass by reference? 20:38:01 you have to specifically do (copy-list) to copy 20:38:15 CL passes references by value :) 20:38:42 got it 20:38:51 so the pointer itself is a copy, but it points to the same memory location 20:39:09 yes 20:44:11 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:46:05 -!- maxm--- is now known as maxm 20:46:28 -!- maxm is now known as maxm- 20:47:37 maxm-: no, lisp is passed by value. Values are usually references, but they're still passed by value. 20:48:41 pkhuong: well you are technically correct, the best kind of correctness :-) 20:49:44 maxm-: pass by reference would allow things like (defun foo (x) (setf x 0)) (let ((variable 42)) (foo variable) variable) => 0. 20:50:17 This is most definitely not how lisps (or just about any language designed after 1970) work. 20:50:28 but to a person coming from C++ where passing by value means actual copy construction is done even on complex objects, that would be misleading, and they will get surprised when they use destructive function on a passed list, thinking its safe to modify it 20:50:52 -!- Blkt` is now known as Blkt 20:51:03 to a person coming from C++ where passing by reference means the last example I just wrote, it's just as confusing. 20:51:17 *maxm-* has no formal education, so I just shoot off the hip here and there :-) 20:51:30 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 20:53:18 -!- zmv_ [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 20:53:28 littlegiraffe [~littlegir@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 20:57:19 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:57:46 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:00:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.76.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:00:38 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:09 man would have been nice if slime autodoc on the message area would display the method args when inside of defmethod lambda list. 21:02:06 display the generic function signature I mean, rather then of the "defmethod" macro 21:02:11 Hexstream: thanks for cheat-sheet - didnt knew that! 21:02:37 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:02:57 gensym: :) 21:07:22 maxm-: doesn't it? (when point is in method's lambda list) 21:08:51 akovalenko: It doesn't for me. I seem to remember it used to... 21:08:53 ..even earlier: I see generic function's signature just after typing method's name 21:09:06 Hexstream: SBCL or ...? 21:09:13 SBCL 1.0.51, yes. 21:09:17 no it message area shows: (defmethod name &body body) 21:09:17 hmm 21:09:42 I have contrib/slime-autodoc loaded, slime fancy loaded it by default 21:09:53 akovalenko: you seeing the actual generic arglist? 21:09:54 maybe I've loaded some extra contrib... 21:10:54 I have nothing special and I can see method signatures, even with method combinations. 21:11:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:11:12 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:13 hmm my slime is about 2 months old, maybe its a new feature 21:11:20 maxm-: I type (defmethod sb-gray:stream-read-char , and see (defmethod stream-read-char (stream)) instantly 21:12:12 I have slime fresh from the new Quicklisp update and it doesn't work... 21:12:20 Blkt` [~user@82.84.171.169] has joined #lisp 21:12:21 akovalenko: does not work for me 21:12:39 dwim [~dwim@117.Red-79-156-36.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:08 akovalenko: can you do f1 v slime-echo-arglist-function 21:13:14 *akovalenko* uses slime from CVS, but relies on this helpful feature probably for a year.. 21:13:16 in a .lisp buffer, and tell me what it is? 21:13:41 Uh oh, I thought my slime-setup was just using slime-fancy but it's using a bunch of stuff manually instead. I'll try to change that for just slime-fancy. 21:13:58 heh, I have slime-autodoc-mode disabled. Try that :) 21:14:55 bye 21:14:56 ..arglist-function is a lambda with if slime-autodoc-mode... it calls slime-show-arglist when slime-autodoc-mode is false. 21:15:06 -!- anddam [~anddam@151.70.8.46] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:23 akovalenko: I did M-x slime-autodoc-mode, it changes the display (now its non-colorized and says (defmethod &WHOLE FORM NAME &BODY ...) but still does not show the actual arguments of the generic function 21:15:23 -!- Blkt [~user@dynamic-adsl-94-36-92-79.clienti.tiscali.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:53 akovalenko: yea same here, I guess its a new feature, will try to update to cvs slime 21:16:17 Nice, it works now. 21:16:37 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.62.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:16:37 maxm-: and if you try M-: (slime-arglist 'sb-gray:stream-read-char)? 21:16:59 All I did is replace the long list of contrib I had enumerated in slime-setup a long time ago before slime-fancy existed by slime-fancy. 21:18:02 *akovalenko* recalls some problems with non-standard method combinations... 21:19:03 it cannot be a new feature, I'm sure it has been there.. well, let me say "for several months", but probably longer 21:19:06 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:20:40 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-24-241-107.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:09 maxm-: see SLIME changelog entry of 2006-02-06 21:21:31 maxm-: s/months/years/, then 21:23:15 ok started working for me after cvs update and restart 21:23:37 *maxm-* has so many customizations sometimes figuring out why stuff does not work is a bother 21:23:49 maxm-: "you can't fix your Lisp Machine by power-cycling it without understanding what's going on.." 21:24:12 emacs is better in this regard :) 21:24:17 *respect 21:24:36 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:27:34 antgreen` [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925098559.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 21:29:03 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-127-247.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:29:33 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925098846.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:29:58 ok I know what it is, its :reverse readtable that I have my my commonqt project 21:31:05 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:32:31 -!- gensym [~user@dslc-082-082-120-133.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:33:43 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:35:42 maxm-: on the other hand, if you understand what's going on, then you can fix your lisp machine by power-cycling it. 21:36:22 As proved by Knight who turned the machine off and on. The machine worked. 21:36:32 I know whats going, just kind of surprised... I had exactly zero problem with inverse readtable except for a few bugs in demacs 21:36:40 more ppl should use them, they rock 21:36:50 -!- zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (Session timeout)] 21:39:11 Ralith [~ralith@173-10-121-193-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:39:39 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has joined #lisp 21:40:08 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:31 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-65-96-210-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 21:45:23 -!- Ralith [~ralith@173-10-121-193-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 21:45:32 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:45:40 Ralith [~ralith@173-10-121-193-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 21:50:15 xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:51:50 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:51:58 /away zzz 21:52:09 good night xach 21:53:45 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@83.222.166.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:57:30 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 21:58:08 zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:00:11 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Client Quit] 22:01:37 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:04:17 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:04:31 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-003-246.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:05:51 ok its not even a readtable 22:06:01 its being in any other package then CL-USER 22:06:07 -!- Ralith [~ralith@173-10-121-193-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:06:36 so... if repl is in CL-USER, then typing (defmethod stream-read-char ( shows the arglist for the generic function, but if I'm in any other package, it does not 22:06:55 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:06:56 Works in other packages for me. 22:07:00 I tried switching packages by both typing (in-package ...) and ,in-package 22:07:23 ok i'll try without loading my qt project at all, still may be the readtable I guess 22:07:36 maxm-: Can you check what kind of slime-setup call you have in your .emacs?... 22:07:49 Ralith [~ralith@173-10-121-193-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:15 (Uh, were you still wondering about method arglist hints?) 22:08:41 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:09:03 maxm-: stream-read-char is not exported from CL, so it's most probably not available from random packages. You implementation may polute CL-USER with it however. 22:09:40 I have a plist with: ((:VARIABLE "APPLE" :VALUE 3))... can anyone tell me how I can extract the 3? 22:09:54 pitlimit: GETF. 22:10:20 I do that with : (getf listname :variable) 22:10:45 but it says it is not of the expected type 22:10:56 ok it actually works in diff packages, I'm testing with (defpackage foo (:use :cl :sb-gray)) 22:10:58 pitlimit: apparently, you have a list of one plist, not a plist 22:10:58 the error says: (SATISFIES CCL::PLISTP). 22:10:59 Well, use car. 22:11:16 so the only place it does not work is my qt package with inverted readtable, back to the drawing board 22:11:32 akovalenko: I have created a "database" with several plists 22:11:46 I extracted ONE list with remove-if-not 22:12:02 oh... good idea Hexstream 22:12:47 pitlimit, remove-if-not returns a sequence, not one item, even if it's a sequence of one item. 22:12:52 pitlimit: maybe FIND will be better 22:13:24 hm ok I will look it up 22:13:28 does find work with a plist... 22:13:49 pitlimit: I mean, FIND instead of REMOVE-IF-NOT, so you need no car 22:14:05 in fact it works if I type ltr 22:14:14 pitlimit: Maybe you should paste your code to paste.lisp.org, so we get better contextual information and we may be better able to help you... 22:14:16 well Hexstream and akovalenko car returns nil 22:14:33 (defmethod ltr:methodname ()...) but not if I type (defmethod methodname) 22:14:40 THis might be a dumb q, but ((stuff)) ... isn't that a list within a list? 22:14:41 ltr is the name of my package 22:14:47 so car would automatically return nil? 22:15:30 pitlimit: (getf '(:variable var :value 3) :value) => 3 (getf (car '((:variable var :value 3))) :value) => 3 22:15:33 pitlimit: while REMOVE-IF-NOT returns a list of "all good items" (maybe a list of one item), FIND returns "the earliest good item", removing an extra level of nesting. 22:15:40 ((stuff)) is a list of one item, (stuff), which is in turn a list. 22:15:53 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-125.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:16:37 Hexstream: I'm dealing with ((somelist))... so wouldn't it be different 22:16:44 How can I get the inner list out? 22:16:49 car. 22:16:51 or first. 22:16:54 ohhhh :) 22:17:04 thanks!!!!! 22:17:17 Might want to take akovalenko's suggestion, though, depending on what you're doing. 22:17:45 i hope htis works! 22:19:09 thank you! 22:19:42 now I must rest haha that was exhausting 22:20:28 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-157-187.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:28 -!- antoszka [~antoszka@unaffiliated/antoszka] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:28 -!- tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:28 -!- ivan4th [~ivan4th@smtp.igrade.ru] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:28 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:28 -!- gry [user@freenode/staff/gry] has quit [*.net *.split] 22:20:28 -!- z0d [~z0d@unaffiliated/z0d] has quit [*.net 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Then you won't need CAR) 22:22:43 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-45766193.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:45 reproduced with (defpackage foo (:use :closer-common-lisp :sb-gray)) 22:22:53 thanks akovalenko 22:23:01 gives conflict between cl:defgeneric and closer-mop:defgeneric 22:23:07 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-153-46.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:16 literal [hinrik@w.nix.is] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 cmbntr_ [~cmbntr@slice.loopback.ch] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 rsynnott [rsynnott@spoon.netsoc.tcd.ie] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 galdor [galdor@def92-10-88-162-192-107.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:16 Kovensky 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[~user@82.84.159.132] has joined #lisp 22:28:06 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 22:28:47 can someone do a quick test for me? its very minimal: (defpackage foo (:use closer-common-lisp :sb-gray)), then (in-package :foo), and confirm that typing (defmethod stream-read-char ( ... does not display the defgeneric args correctly? 22:30:15 it doesn't for me, no. 22:30:38 ok thanks 22:31:18 after many false alarms feels good to find a cause 22:31:19 *akovalenko* doesn't see defgeneric args too 22:33:40 Ralith [~ralith@173-10-121-193-BusName-Washington.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:24 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.29.100] has joined #lisp 22:35:49 udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 22:36:31 ok fix seems to be trivial, (defmethod swank:arglist-dispatch ((operator (eql 'closer-mop:defmethod)) arguments) (swank:arglist-dispatch 'cl:defmethod arguments)) 22:37:08 maxm-: impressive investigation, but the fix seems too ad-hoc 22:38:24 Maybe an :around method that looks in a list of "synonyms"? 22:38:47 maxm-: looked down further: a fix is fully appropriate, but it's not a bug, strictly speaking.. 22:39:14 -!- pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has quit [Quit: pitlimit] 22:39:49 yea around that looks if there is a specializer on the same symbol name in cl package. 22:41:31 ..how could swank know that closer-mop:defmethod has something to do with real defmethod? Name coincidence is not enough (what if I define seaplusplus:defmethod with incompatible syntax?).. 22:42:08 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 22:42:14 so hardcoding closer-mop:defmethod is fine, but some way of letting swank know of such synonyms would be better 22:42:18 well as long as I can get back to coding, this problem had been pissing me off for last few days, since I'm refactoring/extending my app and added like 15 new generics, and keep forgetting their parameters 22:42:52 *akovalenko* would "solve" it by shadowing-import cl:defmethod 22:43:29 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:58 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:45:21 well that defeats the whole idea of using closer-mop..It uses its own defgeneric to fix bugs/implement mop in compatible way.. Maybe its not needed anymore, I have it there forever, but I afraid to take it out 22:45:24 tried (:shadowing-import-from :cl #:defmethod) in defpackage => works 22:46:48 -!- H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:47:26 looked inside: for #-sbcl closer-mop:defmethod may expand into something hairy (and supposedly useful), so there might be a reason not to use shadowing.. 22:49:02 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 22:49:03 patryk [~patryk@141.212.182.121] has joined #lisp 22:49:24 -!- patryk is now known as Guest84104 22:50:05 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:50:05 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 22:50:05 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 22:51:00 -!- Madsn [~Madsn@x1-6-00-18-4d-a9-aa-10.k249.webspeed.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:51:16 zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:52:38 lets say i create a list (setf testlist '(john's weight)) and this returns (john 's weight) and i want to check if 's is a member in the list. how can i do that? 22:53:18 member 22:53:59 Guest5436: look at (write '(john's weight) :pretty nil) and be enlightened :) 22:54:20 -!- udzinari [~udzinari@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Quit:     ] 22:55:44 Guest5436: or just use (member ''s testlist :test 'equal), if you don't have a minute to think 22:56:19 Guest84104: two messages above are for you 22:56:20 other option: don't use symbols as strings. 22:56:26 MimiEA [~Mimi@97-88-37-119.dhcp.roch.mn.charter.com] has joined #lisp 22:56:53 thanks for the (write '(john's weight) :pretty nil). this will come in handy 22:57:03 pkhuong: yep, with Guest84104's approach and strings like "don't"... 23:00:49 Guest84104: a side note: you can have a symbol with a name like "don't" and even "john's weight", if you want. Try (intern "john's weight") to see how you're supposed to type these symbols. 23:03:40 drdo [~drdo@62.169.126.95.rev.optimus.pt] has joined #lisp 23:04:09 -!- zmv is now known as ZMV 23:04:46 -!- Guest5436 is now known as prip 23:05:11 sent patch to slime list 23:05:16 -!- prip is now known as Guest31252 23:08:20 Guest84104: notice that S is not in (john's weight). 23:08:56 Here, (write '(john's weight) :pretty nil) prints (JOHN 'S WEIGHT), which I don't find enlightning... 23:09:21 Instead, try (COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.PICTURE.CONS-TO-ASCII:PRINT-CONSES '(john's weight)) 23:09:34 (ql:quickload :COM.INFORMATIMAGO.COMMON-LISP.PICTURE) before. 23:10:45 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-157-187.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:10:46 Perhaps you'd want to tokenize it as: (john \' s weight) 23:15:04 pjb``: are you going to file a conformance bug against clisp? (see 22.1.3.5) 23:16:26 Currently, here is ccl :-) 23:16:37 o tempora, o mores :( 23:16:47 two conformance bugs against 'em all 23:19:19 drdo` [~drdo@62.169.118.181.rev.optimus.pt] has joined #lisp 23:19:22 -!- hagish [~hagish@82.113.99.3] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:19:31 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-219-19.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:20:46 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-157-187.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:20:59 -!- drdo [~drdo@62.169.126.95.rev.optimus.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:22:00 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 23:22:24 tali713 [~user@c-75-72-221-163.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:24:58 akovalenko: I'm reporting a conformance bug (22.1.3.5) against ccl, clisp and ecl... 23:26:16 -!- ZMV [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:28:06 ZMV [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:29:10 -!- ZMV is now known as zmv 23:29:41 -!- Blkt` [~user@82.84.159.132] has quit [Quit: going to bed...] 23:32:38 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-76-82.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:33:20 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-76-82.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 23:33:20 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl16-76-82.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Client Quit] 23:34:27 Samian [~Fresh@fleet.ece.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 23:34:28 for pseudo code are you suppose to define your variables in a key, or in comments with /* */ 23:34:34 zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 23:35:38 -!- frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:39:37 maxm-: wrong 23:39:53 maxm-: what if we load closer-mop *after* swank? 23:40:31 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5939.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:37 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.176.40] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:44:45 wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.86] has joined #lisp 23:48:54 frhodes [~user@168-103-97-250.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:23 schme [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:52:23 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 23:52:23 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 23:53:10 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:53:21 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.54] has joined #lisp 23:54:21 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:47 maxm-: even worse, what if we *compile* swank-arglist when closer-mop is not loaded? 23:56:03 akovalenko: done. 23:56:31 pjb``: thanks! 23:56:35 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-127-247.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:39 pitlimit [~pitlimit@unaffiliated/pitlimit] has joined #lisp 23:57:51 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:18 My other computer crashed and now I am using a Linux box... I'm trying to set up ccl again... I downloaded the source code, but now when I double click on the binary, nothing happens. I want to be able to see the listener as I was able to before 23:58:39 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.54] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:58:41 Can anyone tell me how to get the separate application to launch? As in, I don't want to run it from the command line 23:58:48 pjb``: it's so infrequently to see a lispnik who doesn't rush into a lengthy discussion of "what's the meaning of list and open parenthesis and of "is"..." in such a situation :)