00:06:37 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:11:43 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 00:15:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:17:42 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:19:39 akovalenko: in hindsight, it's not nearly as nice as i'd have wanted it to be. i now have to overwrite the printing for sequences and such as well, as i need the contents of the list to be printed by the newly created printing methods. 00:22:26 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 00:24:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:26:06 dwim_ [~dwim@69.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:19 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:26:50 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:05 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:27:06 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4930.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:27:29 madnificent: I've mentioned that you have to (quote ...) your conses. And (other) sequences are self-evaluated 00:27:55 madnificent: but of course, you can just (quote ) anything, except the forms that you need as forms 00:29:26 madnificent: and I continue to think, after all, that write-(read+eval) consistency is a bad thing to want :) 00:29:26 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:29:35 -!- dwim [~dwim@69.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 00:30:29 -!- dwim_ [~dwim@69.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Client Quit] 00:30:37 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.96.126] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:30:37 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:30:37 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:30:37 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:31:49 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:32:27 Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has joined #lisp 00:33:22 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:58 akovalenko: well, you don't just have to quote them. you have to start the quote, then you have to write each of its elements to the stream, then you have to close it. not that much work, that's right, but it is redundant 00:34:31 you hadn't expressed that thought before, or i didn't catch it. 00:34:32 ignas [~ignas@user-46-113-151-119.play-internet.pl] has joined #lisp 00:34:43 -!- Cloud_ is now known as cesarbp 00:35:14 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 00:38:14 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:38:40 madnificent: let it default to print-object, and override it for 00:38:41 conses (where (quote) is needed) and for custom objects 00:38:41 00:38:46 like that 00:39:10 and you don't print "(quote " to quote something, you print a list! 00:39:42 but if you have custom objects that you want to be evaluated (inside your sequences), you need backquote and comma instead 00:40:54 so if you have such nested objects, you'd better think again about more straigtforward approach, like read-time evaluation 00:44:03 -!- ignas [~ignas@user-46-113-151-119.play-internet.pl] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 00:44:50 akovalenko: i have printed a list, yet still, i have to manually call my function for the elements WITHIN my list 00:45:38 calling print on anything native which has elements in it will not work, as that will continue to use the normal print. 00:46:09 i'm using list instead of backquote and comma, as it seems to look cleaner in the code 00:46:27 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:17 marsell [~marsell@120.20.78.194] has joined #lisp 00:48:53 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 00:49:32 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:50:40 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:50:41 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 00:51:28 concave [~concave@c-24-118-48-38.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:05 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-131-18.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:52:52 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 00:56:17 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:57:25 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:00:15 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:00:55 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-131-18.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:04:20 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:05:56 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:07:17 oxsard [~oxsard@218.75.199.210] has joined #lisp 01:07:26 -!- oxsard [~oxsard@218.75.199.210] has left #lisp 01:08:10 oxsard [~oxsard@218.75.199.210] has joined #lisp 01:10:18 -!- oxsard [~oxsard@218.75.199.210] has left #lisp 01:15:42 -!- xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:57 zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:17:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:28:00 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@89.sub-75-253-45.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:35:38 cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:38 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:37:55 ennyd how do you declare C structures in lisp? I was doing it with CFFI, but after stumbling on a struct that manually sets the alignment of it's members (took me a good while to track that down) I was wondering if there is a better way? 01:38:15 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:39:20 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:41 god knows how many other structs do the same thing. also fetching the #define constants manually is tedious as well 01:40:30 ccl's interface translator automates that, if you happen to be using ccl. 01:41:39 was hoping for something portable 01:41:54 zardoz8: cffi has a groveller. 01:44:41 yes? I'll take a look 01:45:36 how about SWIG? anyone had success with it? 01:46:46 according to swig.org it supports Common Lisp (CLISP, Allegro CL, CFFI, UFFI) 01:47:07 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@89.sub-75-253-45.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:49:00 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1747] 01:54:24 <|3b|> can someone with current sbcl/slime try this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124940 ? 01:54:39 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:55:36 topo__ [~topo@f053037125.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:57:35 -!- topo [~topo@f053045000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:58:45 |3b|: 1 1 01:59:01 <|3b|> after restarting the frame? 02:00:09 |3b|: sorry, misread you first. 1 NIL after restarting 02:00:30 <|3b|> ok, not just my local install being broken then :( 02:02:55 anyone has any thoughts on organizing a lisp project that is becoming medium/large with regards to splitting stuff up into files? Currently I just have :serial t but its getting tiresome of waiting 2 minutes for "full recompile check" 02:04:15 tried to do dependecies manually, and kind of everything depends on everything else.. So far my only thought is to have kind of an .h and .cpp file equivalent for major pieces, with the "interface" file having defclass and defgenerics and implementation ones the rest 02:04:32 <|3b|> does it matter for a 'full recompile'? 02:04:35 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:05:01 <|3b|> or do you mean it recompiles too much when you make changes? 02:05:42 *|3b|* doesn't have any good suggestions either way though, aside from developing on ccl or some other lisp with a fast compiler 02:06:16 yea clisp is actually lighting fast for compiling comparing to SBCL, runtime is opposite of course 02:06:30 gko [~gko@27.242.21.183] has joined #lisp 02:06:56 <|3b|> yeah, ccl is a bit better there 02:07:05 imho in SBCL, it should be theoretically possible using its internals (infodb) to come up with a really recompiler 02:07:47 like hook up into "redefinition" part, and then see if function or method type or signature changed, then mark everyone who calls that (which is known through info db) as dirty, etc 02:08:49 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:09:35 maxm--: you don't have to do that anyway except for macros 02:10:31 xristos: well if you use clos extensively, then really if you change defclass, which I do often, all methods specializing on it needs to be recompiled 02:10:49 which due to lisp multi-dispatch in my system is spread-out across files 02:10:57 maxm--: it's not normally the case with clos 02:11:30 maxm--: it's only if you have your defgenerics reevaluated -- then methods go away 02:11:57 but if you add or remove a slot, superclass etc., there is no need to recompile 02:12:33 akovalenko: well maybe its because I was doing extesive refactoring and moving/renaming slots around in a big way 02:12:37 maxm--: even if a defgeneric takes away all methods, there is no need to *recompile* them, reloading definitions will do 02:13:51 anyway what I got from this discussion, seems there is no commonly agreed way to do it (that is split up classes/generics/methos into files), and everyone just rolls their own 02:14:38 maxm--: if you're renaming slots/doing extensive refactoring, usually you will have to change the methods too 02:14:55 if you don't need to change the methods then you don't really have a problem? 02:15:25 sogeking99 [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 02:15:43 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:16:23 to make sure (or make myself certain) that methods don't need to be changed, I need to recompile them to see if I'll get errors, so its kind of a circular problem right there.. 02:16:24 hooking into redefinition and marking things as dirty strike me as something you'd do from scratch in python 02:16:29 due to the horrible module system 02:16:48 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 02:16:48 *maxm--* is at a point where I can't keep entire project in my head 02:17:19 well anyway, its still faster then doing development in C/java 02:17:49 hey guys, i am having a hard time getting what quoting is all about. '(one two three four) this makes it clear its just data, symbols and not code right, but what can these symbols be used for? 02:18:22 symbols are basically a hashtable of a (symbol name -> symbol properties) 02:19:10 symbol name is a string.. symbol properties are, fdefinition (ie if there is a function named thus), property list, macro function etc 02:19:15 sogeking99: Lots of things, it's a bit like asking what numbers can be used for, if that's not too haughty an analogy... 02:19:31 value of course, which is the symbol's value in dynamic scope 02:19:45 you can also use them as values without evaluating them 02:19:53 normally you'd choose keyword symbols for that 02:20:20 sogeking99: my main use for symbols is as namespaced identifiers for data. They're very handy as generic keys/markers. 02:20:46 imagine yourself back in C++ or Java land... You have class symbol { string name; void *value; void *fdefiniton ...} 02:21:14 the symbol is its name, ie "foo".. The symbol value is symbol_table["foo"] -> value; 02:21:35 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D70A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:22:56 ok thanks, i get it now 02:23:04 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:23:04 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D479.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:25:03 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@89.sub-75-253-45.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:25:39 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:27:02 kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:28:33 <|3b|> looks like sbcl debugger does that too 02:32:03 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 02:32:37 -!- kleppari [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:34:41 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 02:35:27 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:41:26 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:44:07 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:45:29 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@89.sub-75-253-45.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:46:32 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@125.sub-75-224-113.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:49:36 -!- sogeking99 [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 02:49:51 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:56:00 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 02:56:49 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:59:47 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 03:00:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.222.34] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:02:49 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.208.7] has joined #lisp 03:03:13 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:04:09 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 03:06:37 tessier [~treed@mail.copilotco.com] has joined #lisp 03:09:13 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:09:27 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:09:50 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-186-101.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:50 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-186-101.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:09:50 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 03:12:38 -!- concave [~concave@c-24-118-48-38.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [] 03:13:31 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 03:16:54 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:25:41 Can Drakma be used for asynch requests? 03:27:54 Maybe using something like Eager Future? 03:32:22 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 03:34:06 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:34:57 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:37:06 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:37:39 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-okmxjklksdtrsvvu] has joined #lisp 03:37:54 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-76.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:20 -!- zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: ..] 03:38:37 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:38:55 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.208.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:38:55 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 03:41:58 Or, something like this: (defparameter *async-req* (sb-thread:make-thread (lambda () (drakma:http-request "http://cnn.com")))) 03:42:13 (sb-thread:join-thread *async-req*) 03:43:18 Modius: thread pool. 03:43:42 pkhuong: Is getting it to return a stream and poll it kosher? 03:44:55 it's not that async; the connection must still be established. If that's good enough for your purposes, it's probably the best way. 03:45:09 daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326B91.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:40 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B32694C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:50:30 Is there a way to make slime macroexpand one level at a time after slime-macroexpand-1? 03:51:15 Er...just run it again in that macroexpand buffer, I guess. 03:56:38 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.78.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:57:19 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: Goodnight all. long live the trawlz.] 03:59:17 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@125.sub-75-224-113.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:02:41 oudeis_ [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:06 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 04:03:18 -!- rme [rme@696C65D6.F26E1912.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:03:18 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has quit [Quit: rme] 04:03:48 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:06:07 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:10:18 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-131-18.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:14:28 Pkhuong: Are there real limitations that prevent an asynch httprequest, or is it just how Drakma is implemented? 04:15:05 pkhuong: I've seen asynch http request in other languages - are they implemented in terms of thread pools? 04:15:51 other than keep-alive and websockets, an http connection may timeout and a reconnection would be needed anyway 04:15:55 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-16-196.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:16:21 keep-alive has a limited server-configured timeout 04:16:22 Modius: it's just how drakma does it. 04:27:00 zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-86-72-4.tys.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:33 cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 04:30:41 joast 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[~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:45:56 loke: nooo! 05:46:23 :-) 05:46:41 (not (alone)) 05:47:16 I just wanted some code critisism... I wrote this, and it's cool and all, but it just "feels" messy. 05:47:17 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124943 05:47:26 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:36 blacktooth [~blacktoot@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:40 samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 05:47:59 It's probably the 4 nested LET forms and three conditional forms (WHEN IF IF) 05:48:28 perhaps break it down into more functions? not a very helpful suggestion, I know. 05:48:42 But that's the typical MO for untangling a messy nest. 05:48:58 unless it's ksh, in which case we live with it and move on 05:49:31 ksh? as in Korn Shell? 05:49:40 loke: what would happen if you omitted whens and ifs? 05:49:58 The wrong thing? :-) 05:50:09 define "wrong"? 05:50:09 yep 05:50:13 the very same shell 05:50:31 I've written a good bit of it, and I still wake up sometimes thinking I may have forgotten to quote an array somewhere 05:50:33 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.65] has joined #lisp 05:50:35 (not right) :-) 05:50:41 define "right" :P 05:50:44 smartass :P 05:50:49 Umm 05:50:55 (not left) ? :-) 05:51:01 Franky, I don't quite understand your question 05:51:24 at least 2 times you test stuff for not being nil 05:51:36 (when node-name, (if collectionp 05:51:55 so what would happen if you had proceeded anyway? 05:52:14 if you get an error, maybe it would cleaner with installing handlers? 05:52:19 Yeah... The idea is that if you don't specify a NODE-NAME, there should be no attempt made to extract data from the DOM... COLLECTIONP idicates where the data is a single value, or a list of values 05:52:45 like, write the code as if anything succeeds and let error-checking machinery bail you out in case something goes wrong 05:52:52 s/anything/everything/ 05:53:00 zvrba: ah no. NODE-NAME indicates an extra slot attribute given in the class definition, if one omits it, the entire code should not be run 05:53:29 hrmpf 05:53:31 messy indeed. 05:53:33 I see what you are saying, but I don't return NIL when I should error out 05:53:34 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:53:35 xml processing? 05:53:39 zvrba: yeah 05:53:55 crap. oh well :) 05:53:56 It's a metaclass that helps me map XML content into CLOS classes 05:54:09 oO. way too advanced for me :P 05:54:28 basically, it allows me to specify some extra class attributes to indicate from where in the XML document the data should be loaded. 05:54:32 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:55:05 This is for my Google Gdata api 05:55:08 where in XML == xpath? 05:55:48 zvrba: the slot attributes specifies Xpath expressions that indicate what to extract 05:55:56 yeah 05:58:55 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:58:55 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.62.2] has joined #lisp 06:02:30 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 06:03:06 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 06:05:29 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Client Quit] 06:07:32 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:08:20 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:14:42 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:18:22 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 06:19:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:19:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:00 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.225] has joined #lisp 06:20:47 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:20:47 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.225] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:58 p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 06:22:14 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-129-76.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 06:23:18 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.230] has joined #lisp 06:23:34 yo 06:24:53 after re-define a function / parameter with the same name, does the unused data go with GC ? 06:27:15 morphism: sure, unreachable memory gets reclaimed. why do you ask? 06:29:28 because on .NET, I had some previous problem with un-collected objects 06:29:44 so I want to make sure it won't happen on CL 06:30:09 i don't believe you 06:30:23 what are you expecting ? 06:30:38 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 06:31:04 if the .NET GC is broken, it would be fixed pretty fast 06:31:19 No, I didn't mean .NET GC is broken 06:31:33 Just when your app grow up large 06:32:00 some are hard to manage object when cross references are every where 06:32:34 if you hold on to your objects, no GC will ever be able to help you 06:32:45 as the object has the data that related to calling function, you can't collect it, right ? 06:32:51 morphism: you may have problems with GC if you rely on finalizers to clean up something more than memory. In this case, it will be just the same with many CL implementations.. 06:33:11 what I'm trying to avoid too 06:33:47 morphism: it's easy: you either have a reference to an object, or you don't 06:33:52 problem just come when function from alien DLL didn't violate 06:34:01 as expected 06:34:02 morphism: no matter if it is related to calling functions or not 06:34:23 I don't no because it's not my function 06:34:29 if it's mine, I'm sure to make it done 06:34:31 ;) 06:34:46 jdz, morphism: in "you either have a reference.." it's *you* that is problematic :) 06:35:11 did I say that ? 06:35:12 =.= 06:35:35 do you have to ask? 06:36:16 my problem on .NET related to thread 06:37:36 ok.. nevermind, think like i shouldn't explain more =.= got my answer. 06:37:44 gaidal [~gaidal@59.42.115.225] has joined #lisp 06:37:53 if you say so 06:38:36 i'm left with the feeling that the question was ill-formulated and we did not even scratch the real issue 06:38:42 morphism: be sure to get back if/when you have an actual problem with GC 06:39:11 morphism: without that, it's just too hypothetical thing, so any definite answer has to be a wild guess at best 06:39:34 Could there be something similar to what was there in older versions of the JVM. Issues in collecting the Class instances, causing static member to linger longer than they should 06:39:37 akovalenko, thanks, I haven't had any problem with CL GC yet. 06:40:03 I don't know anything about .net, but it doesn't seem to be outside the realm of possibility that the same problem could exist there. 06:41:07 bayesian [~MLPFiM@gateway/tor-sasl/frendshipismagic] has joined #lisp 06:41:10 loke: and how do you know they are there? if you rely on finalizers, see above 06:41:13 Hi lisp 06:41:28 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:42:26 loke: as there are usually no promises about finalizers being run at all, it's hard to understand how long is "longer than they should" 06:43:50 akovalenko: out of memory issues. It happened in earlier versions of the JVM when you were running app servers that constantly reloaded the classes on deployment. When dropping the reference to the classloader you'd expect all the class instances that were to loaded by that class loader to be CG'ed (assuming there were no live instances of any of those classes). Well, those versions (pre 1.5 I believe) of Java didn't do that. 06:44:03 akovalenko: Who is talking about finalisers? 06:44:12 I'm talking ablut static members not being GC'ed 06:44:46 basically, you'd see the app server use more and more memory until it crashed because the classes were not gc'ed properly 06:45:28 loke: then it is likely to be better with any CL 06:45:34 akovalenko: exactly 06:46:48 however, there are corner cases, like EQL specializers (I'd expect them to be weak-pointer-based and therefore collectable, but it's not the case in SBCL, at least) 06:46:50 akovalenko: All of this is much more fundamental in CL, so a problem with the design of the liveness graph (which was the root cause in Java, they had to rewrite the spec to get it right) would show up much faster in Lisp. 06:47:17 akovalenko: I didn't even know you could write an EQL specialiser. 06:47:21 How does that work? 06:47:22 akoval: Since CL doesn't have weak-pointers, that's optimistic. 06:47:42 Oh ah 06:47:47 ait. I misunderstood 06:47:53 hi Zhivago 06:48:04 you're referring to (defmethod x (foo (eql :bar)), right? 06:48:15 cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.60.2] has joined #lisp 06:48:21 is it correct to "rethrow" a condition, something such as (handler-case form (some-error (cond) (error cond))) ? 06:48:24 Zhivago: hash internals require similar GC-related magic for their *implementation*, and hash tables are in the standard. 06:49:08 OK 06:49:08 brb 06:49:12 Zhivago: so it's not unreasonable to expect something depending (internally) on weak pointers, without them being standardized 06:49:31 btw, memory usage is not standardized at all, IIRC 06:50:13 galdor: note that you may also use handler-bind and decline to handle a condition. 06:50:19 Did you ever encounter situation like this : I bind thread creation to an object then create it + call its thread.Start() method, and then bind the same variable with new objects. (thought GC should collect it here, I even Reregister that object for GC ). But after minutes, .NET shown out an error of outOfmemoryExpection & Task manager shown 100 mb of memory ? 06:50:25 galdor: it's better than rethrowing in some respects 06:50:33 galdor: sometimes it is. it depends on what you want. 06:51:09 I have two ffi calls to perform, the first one allocating a resource 06:51:17 if the second one fails, I want to release the first one 06:51:36 unwind-protect will execute the cleaning forms even if the first form succeeds 06:51:53 morphism: did you try *without* reregisteration? (I don't know, but aren't we supposed to register GC *roots*, not something to be collected?) 06:52:22 I tried 06:52:26 using HANDLER-CASE to catch the error, release the first resource, and rethrow the error seems to be ok, I just wanted to be sure there isn't a more idiomatic way 06:52:26 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.62.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:52:33 morphism: did your threads ever finish? 06:52:39 galdor: have an additional variable, set it to true after successful second call 06:52:56 galdor: check it in the unwind cleanup form and act accordingly 06:53:11 jdz, I think yes. But as said, the alien DLL don't really let me know. 06:53:25 galdor: it seems that in your case you don't even have to catch the error 06:53:31 if it's .NET object too, then it maybe easier. 06:53:46 if I don't catch the error, the resource allocated by the first call won't be released 06:54:01 did shared thread/memory process don't let those object be free ? 06:54:04 morphism: well, before freaking out about GC, you should try and understand what exactly is the cause of the problem. 06:54:07 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:54:11 galdor: unwind-protect is like try-finally, so you don't have to rethrow 06:54:31 yes, but unwind-protect will always execute the cleanup form, which is not what I want 06:54:40 galdor: use additial variable! 06:55:03 why is that better than rethrowing ? 06:55:04 jdz, in C++, it's fairly easier to manage memory by manual destructor :P 06:55:17 galdor: (let (done) (unw-p (... (setf done t)) (when done (cleanup))) 06:55:21 galdor: yes, you only need to clean up if you have allocated the stuff. 06:55:30 morphism: i disagree. 06:55:54 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.60.2] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:56:02 morphism: with-* macros is what we use (and provide) if we want RAII-like stuff 06:56:08 jdz, what you did you may know better. 06:56:15 akovalenko: seems ok 06:56:17 thank you for helping 06:56:32 :D 06:56:48 galdor: it's frequently done as a macro (example: nlx-protect in SBCL internals) 06:57:16 just in term of comparing with .NET GC, or maybe it's easily making mistake on this platform. 06:57:25 galdor: (sorry, nlx-protect is the reverse of what you want, but the idea behind is similar) 06:59:32 it's fine, I get the idea :) 07:08:40 nostoi [~nostoi@69.Red-79-157-234.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:09:31 kpavn_ [A@nat/ibm/x-ihepofmetcvlokif] has joined #lisp 07:19:08 Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.121.58] has joined #lisp 07:20:13 mrsolo 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[~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:16 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:28:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:08 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:29:09 Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@46.153.4.236] has joined #lisp 08:29:20 marsell [~marsell@120.20.251.130] has joined #lisp 08:29:25 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 08:29:47 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:15 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.87] has joined #lisp 08:33:46 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host158-234-dynamic.19-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:35:17 Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.229.230] has joined #lisp 08:35:42 Hmm. Late night lisp hacking and image based development really don't mix. I'll never know how I did this.. 08:43:54 macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 08:46:06 ZabaQ: But it *somehow* works? 08:46:11 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.229.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:48:01 Posterdati [~tapioca@host48-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:48:23 ZabaQ: that's why you should always work in files :P 08:52:11 martisj [~martin@14-201-64-38.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 08:53:19 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:53:33 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 08:53:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:53:58 -!- grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:56:20 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-16-196.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:58:22 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-37.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 08:59:05 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:01:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 09:01:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:01:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:02:38 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-206-76.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:02:52 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:03:53 -!- rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:22 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.230] has joined #lisp 09:06:48 MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:07 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 09:07:44 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:08:53 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.230] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:12:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:14:27 -!- MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 09:18:00 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:20:28 pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has joined #lisp 09:21:14 grouzen [~grouzen@ip21-159.200.109.crimea.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:48 ZabaQ: you should use something like http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/ibcl/ ; or at the very least, (dribble "~/dribble.dat") in your rc file... 09:26:17 ZabaQ: actually, I use: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124944 to start dribble. 09:26:35 oo...that's handy. 09:27:50 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:34:03 I think I looked up dribble in my first few weeks with CL wondered what it was for..now I know.. 09:35:49 -!- macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:43:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-135.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:43:57 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:47:32 -!- H4ns [~hans@host-67-23-65-202.biznesshosting.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 09:48:04 -!- tty234_ is now known as tty234 09:48:06 H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has joined #lisp 09:50:45 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 09:51:08 arbscht [~arbscht@unaffiliated/arbscht] has joined #lisp 09:52:09 -!- Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@46.153.4.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:53:50 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:55:04 Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@46.153.4.236] has joined #lisp 10:00:49 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-16-196.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 10:01:04 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 10:01:09 macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has joined #lisp 10:03:38 MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 10:04:48 ehu [~ehuels@109.33.49.123] has joined #lisp 10:06:10 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:08:21 I have read the SBCL Manual § 10 on Streams and there is no way to specify the end of file where in the manual can I get information on opening files with the right external format and correct end of line charater thanks in advance 10:10:12 MrMc: I don't think you can request different end-of-line sequences in sbcl. 10:10:12 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:11:02 MrMc: for the external format, you have to know the format of the data, and the name of that format in sbcl, and pass it as an argument to :external-format. I don't know all the names, but :latin1 and :utf8 work and that's what I use 99% of the time. 10:11:25 MrMc: not sure what you mean by specifying end of file. 10:11:34 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-qkefvasorfdzvszc] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:11:40 Xach: I meant end-of-file 10:11:51 sorry end-of-line 10:14:06 Xach:My set up SBCL 1.0.50 :external-format :utf8 has trailing ^M characters 10:14:21 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 10:14:59 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@189.143.121.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:15:45 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:16:01 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:16:39 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:16:40 MrMc: UTF-8 does not dictate line endings. I don't believe any external format does. 10:16:58 most likely you are mistakenly instructing it to print carriage returns. 10:19:56 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:23:13 Ralith: some implementations allow you to specify line endings in external formats (e.g. ccl, flexi-streams) 10:23:33 -!- Matt_S_G [Matt_S_G@46.153.4.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:24:31 MrMc: if you want a portable solution, use flexi-streams 10:25:03 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:25:52 "Computer so-called ``science'' actually has a lot in common with magic 10:25:58 MrMc: perhaps also try using #\Linefeed instead of #\Newline , bearing in mind that #\Linefeed may not exist on strange implementations. 10:29:32 -!- macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:30:52 Ralith:I am reading a file with ^M as end of file. In CCL one can change the end-of-line to :MSDOS and the problem goes away. However SBCL has no such knobs. So I will use Flexistreams as recommended 10:32:32 it seems to me that using a facility intended to handle character encodings to handle this is inappropriate, but w/e 10:33:28 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:33:56 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 10:37:09 -!- Intensity [C9pnwMcAg1@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:44:35 Ralith: "external format" includes more than character encoding in my understanding 10:44:45 macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has joined #lisp 10:45:07 what is your understanding, and what is it based on? 10:45:48 Ralith: A hack might be to string- right-trim ^M 10:46:33 a simpler hack would be to chop of the last character if you're not at EOF. 10:48:31 Ralith: it is based on experience with flexi-streams - it just seems to make sense to me, as line endings are part of the "physical" format of a file. 10:50:08 Ralith: i find putting line-end handling code into the external format to be natural and elegant. i can't see a better place to put such code. do you? 10:51:19 Ralith: how is that a simpler hack? 10:51:27 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:52:43 jdz: simpler may not have been the right word, but it is not significantly more complicated, and will not mangle files containing literal ^Ms. 10:54:01 Ralith: it's more complicated than right-trim any way you look at it 10:54:22 Ralith: and the mangling point makes no sense at all 10:54:59 I disagree. 10:56:38 Ralith: with string-right-trim, you can handle both files with lf and crlf line endings. no such luck with your proposal. but then, all these are hacks that are pulling low-level encoding issues into application code, which is wrong in itself. 10:57:33 Explicitly selecting an external format doesn't handle both formats at once either :P 10:58:03 I agree that a mechanism to represent arbitrary details of file layout is useful. I am not convinced that external formats are that mechanism. 10:58:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 11:00:08 (if you expect to encounter both formats, adding a check to the deletion is perfectly trivial as well, of course) 11:00:47 H4ns_ [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has joined #lisp 11:00:51 Ralith: the best solution would be to fix sbcl so that it properly supports the native text encoding on windows, and that'd probably mean that external formats need to be extended and crlf be made the default line ending for default external formats on that platform. 11:00:54 -!- H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:02:17 I don't know that it's clear that that is the intended role of external formats, or that, if it is not, it is appropriate to extend them to encompass that role. 11:03:27 Ralith: just because sbcl does not do it does not mean that it is wrong. 11:04:03 and just because ccl does it does not mean it is right. 11:04:42 Ralith: ok, so look at acl or lispworks, they also do it that way. 11:04:56 Ralith: maybe you have a better proposal? 11:05:03 why would you think that? 11:05:33 Ralith: because you seem to imply that putting eol handling into external formats is not the right thing to do. 11:05:58 that has not been my intention. 11:07:53 -!- gko [~gko@27.242.21.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:08:18 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:12:12 Intensity [qsW5GZMoE6@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 11:15:31 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:16:20 Ralith: External Format includes handling of things like record sizes, line endings, etc. 11:16:35 'record sizes'? o.O 11:16:40 -!- H4ns_ [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:16:41 Ralith: you should be just happy that you have grown up with systems that use simple files :D 11:16:49 I am! ^^ 11:17:33 looking at the pathnames stuff in the spec alone is enough. 11:18:16 Ralith: on DOS, there's a virtual record in form of a text line ended with CRLF (that's why there's "text mode" and "binary mode"). On other systems, you could have files that had to be written in chunks of 512 bytes, for example, or ones which had 80 "character" lines as records 11:18:49 p_l|backup: yay for MVS :-) 11:18:50 and you'd specify record format as part of the file metadata, or give it to your I/O code 11:19:00 loke: long live z/OS ;-) 11:19:22 ... actually, I think IBM owes me a z/OS t-shirt 11:19:40 p_l|backup: My experience with that stuff has all been playing around with MVS on Hercules. Problem is that there is so little documentation for beginners, that I felt completely lost. 11:19:49 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: gone] 11:19:53 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host48-226-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:19:56 p_l|backup: do you know this stuff and can provide some assistance? 11:20:18 Anyone who has looked at COBOL will instantly understand record sizes. COBOL has nothing but. 11:21:00 loke: the C64 (and the 1541, 1571 and 1581) had record-oriented I/O, too. With an index block at the start, for direct addressing of data blocks, etc 11:21:09 loke: unfortunately not. I can only tell you to search through IBM's pages on z/OS (which is what MVS evolved into) 11:21:39 flip214: damn, I was a long-time user/coder on C64, but I never touched that stuff (mainly because I didn't have a disc drive) 11:21:41 I played around with Hercules too, plus took part in Mainframe Challenge (where I got my hands on a z9, I think) 11:22:37 gko [~gko@27.242.21.183] has joined #lisp 11:22:38 p_l|backup: well, my problems were quite basic, like how I tried to compile something and I got no end of errors and I figured it was because I didn't have a COBOL compiler installed. That made me realise I had no idea how to even check if it is installed. 11:23:14 loke: best way - a log of what you did to the system since installing it :) 11:23:29 p_l|backup: ouch 11:23:40 I was working off of the MVS starter 11:23:54 the turnkey mvs 3.8j? 11:23:57 yeah 11:24:32 There seems to be a lot of stuff on that MVS site, but it's all in the form of tape dumps and without any understand I wouldn't even know how to begin actually using that stuff 11:24:42 I think you'd need to check the readme on that one, but I think there was a tape image linked from its page that you can install it from 11:24:54 it's not like I can just load the tape into the device and use it. or can I? Hell would I know. 11:26:02 I didn't get to play with installing from tape on MVS, so can't help you there. Last time I installed something from tape it was... either BSD on VAX or TOPS-20 software kits 11:26:21 Yeah, but even when I was compiling assembler programs (which I did get to work), I did it by having this magic script I prepended the code with and then loaded the deck. However, nowhere did I find information on what that script actually did... You know what those look like. It's a lot of magic in there :-) 11:26:27 loke: I'm not sure what you're talking about, but on C64 with datasette it was "load the tape, press Shift+Run/Stop" ;) 11:26:34 flip214: yeah 11:26:52 those were good times ... you'd know every byte by name 11:26:56 flip214: the block stuff was when working off of floppy discs right? 11:27:01 right 11:27:11 Yeah, I never had a floppy drive 11:27:16 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.123.21] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:27:50 The BASIC on those things were the first REPL's I used :-) Goes to show how useful they are for people when learning programming., 11:32:25 finally found it ... «REL relative files (only usable with computer applications; max. filesize 167.132 Bytes with max. 65.535 data sets) » http://www.c64-wiki.com/index.php/VIC-1541 11:33:32 Posterdati [~tapioca@host104-230-dynamic.7-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 11:33:53 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:33:53 -!- bayesian [~MLPFiM@gateway/tor-sasl/frendshipismagic] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:34:43 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 11:36:23 hi 11:37:26 is it possble to use "if" and execute a group of functions? not just one? 11:38:00 clhs progn 11:38:22 :( 11:38:34 with if is not possible? 11:38:44 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_progn.htm 11:40:06 no, the second argument is the "then" and the third is the "else"-form 11:40:13 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:45:16 you can use "when" or "unless" if you don't need the "else"-form - then you can provide more than one form, because they have an implicit progn 11:45:33 martisj_ [~martin@14-201-64-38.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:45:39 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:49 -!- martisj_ [~martin@14-201-64-38.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Client Quit] 11:46:37 -!- martisj [~martin@14-201-64-38.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 253 seconds] 11:49:00 xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:49:44 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-162-18.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:18 -!- topo__ [~topo@f053037125.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:50:20 topo [~topo@f053037125.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:50:21 ok thanks 11:54:43 i was thinking 11:54:57 what about if i put a group of functions inside another function 11:55:10 then i can put that another function inside "if" 11:55:26 use progn 11:56:30 it takes care of your needs without cluttering the function namespace with useless stuff 12:00:56 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:01:40 topo: you are basically describing progn 12:01:44 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:02:23 -!- topo [~topo@f053037125.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 12:02:40 whenever I'm tempted to use progn with if, I use cond instead 12:03:07 which may be the same, techically speaking 12:03:12 of course 12:03:16 topo [~topo@f053037125.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:03:17 it expands into the same thing 12:03:41 so do when and unless 12:04:00 yup 12:05:15 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 12:16:40 one question 12:17:08 is this sintaxis fine? 12:17:10 (glut:mouse-func #'(mouseButton)) 12:17:23 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 12:18:10 i want to get the variables from mouseButton function 12:18:41 The syntax is #'mousebutton 12:19:13 Unless you have non-default reader settings, mouseButton, MOUSEBUTTON, and mousebutton will map to the same symbol. 12:21:50 ummm 12:21:55 it doesnt work 12:21:57 im getting this 12:22:03 The value # is not of type SYSTEM-AREA-POINTER. 12:22:08 (GLUT:MOUSE-FUNC #) 12:22:27 what does that means? system area pointer? 12:22:47 I don't know. 12:23:17 ummm 12:23:19 *Xach* does not use glut 12:24:37 leyyer_su [~user@222.209.125.1] has joined #lisp 12:26:29 enupten [~neptune@117.192.74.238] has joined #lisp 12:28:29 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:28:34 lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 12:31:53 lurker-x [~androirc@c-75-72-88-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:46 concave [~concave@c-24-118-48-38.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:35:03 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-206-76.uio.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:35:03 topo | i want to get the variables from mouseButton function 12:35:11 Maybe you want MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND? 12:35:27 whats that? 12:35:49 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:35:58 It lets you bind function's multiple return values to variables. 12:36:14 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-heubkgdbhkmykseg] has joined #lisp 12:36:23 topo: It may help if you show a bit more source. Of mouseButton e.g. 12:36:28 topo: are you sure that glut:mouse-func is a function that you want to call? 12:36:29 ok 12:36:51 -!- gko [~gko@27.242.21.183] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:36:52 topo: maybe you want to use codesearch.google.com and standard google searches to find out how other people use that function. 12:36:54 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 12:37:13 here it is 12:37:14 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124948 12:37:17 kdoers.com 12:37:21 *koders.com 12:38:38 topo: 1st I don't see any meaningful return value from mouseButton. You're probably doing sometihng wrong with glut:mouse-func. 12:38:51 2. = is for comparison, not assignment. 12:38:53 topo: by looking at other people's code, you'll also learn how to properly indent lisp code so that others can read it easily. 12:39:12 PCL is perfect for that. Has plenty of code to read :] 12:39:14 here is the complete code 12:39:15 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124949 12:39:24 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 12:39:49 at the end in init defun you can see im calling the functions in this way: 12:39:55 (glut:mouse-func #'mouseButton) 12:40:39 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:41:00 the errer im getting is this : 12:41:02 debugger invoked on a TYPE-ERROR: 12:41:02 The value # is not of type SYSTEM-AREA-POINTER. 12:41:07 (GLUT:MOUSE-FUNC #) 12:41:31 I would like to help, a little, but the code is very ugly and it makes my eyes hurt. 12:41:42 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:41:52 The unconventional and inconsistent layout and unconventional naming in particular 12:41:52 ok im gonna clean it 12:42:20 Also, I don't know anything about glut, which is probably the problem I would have if the code was formatted beautifully. 12:42:21 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:42:41 topo: You definitely want to replace some comparisons with assignments: 12:42:43 (defun computePos(deltaMove) 12:42:45 (= *x* (+ (* deltaMove (* *lx* 0.1)))) 12:42:47 (= *z* (+ (* deltaMove (* *lz* 0.1))))) 12:42:48 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:43:00 ummm 12:44:47 setq? 12:45:01 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.240.205] has joined #lisp 12:45:06 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@203.110.240.205] has quit [Changing host] 12:45:06 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:45:26 topo: SETF 12:45:35 (it's the generalized variant of SETQ) 12:46:00 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:50:13 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:54 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:52:36 aleron [~brad@135.sub-166-248-67.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 12:57:19 hi 12:57:46 I'm trying to program a simple REPL for atmega328p chip, is anyone interested? 12:58:27 Is it in, or with, common lisp? 13:00:18 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:01:10 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 13:01:15 hardly possible 13:01:32 Xach: I'd like to develop a small set of common lisp forms just to perform simple operations 13:01:33 Could be generated with CL code, though? 13:01:55 I read about Norvig and it's lisp compiler 13:02:15 -!- aleron [~brad@135.sub-166-248-67.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:02:24 it would be rather easy to port it for avr mcu 13:02:49 superflit_ [~superflit@71-33-182-89.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:51 so I'm a bit confused at the moment, because it would be nice to have a Lisp compiler for avr, in the meantime an on chip firmware like redboot or u-boot 13:04:01 hi 13:04:01 based on Lisp 13:04:07 Xach: you there? 13:04:12 I have a data structure as (("4" "1" "17" "103" "3" "0" "0" "0" "0") ... I am doing a matching on some variable... I know how to do exact matches like: (member "2" data :test #'equal :key #'(lambda (x) (nth 4 x))) but how do I change the test to allow for when the (nth 4 x) is between 2 - 2 and 2 + 2 (as an example)? 13:04:20 i cleaned up the code and put it beatiful 13:04:21 Posterdati: an 8bit system is too small for a real lisp. 13:04:22 here it is 13:04:24 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124950 13:04:33 -!- superflit [~superflit@174-16-42-206.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:04:33 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 13:04:43 francogrex: did you consider member-if? 13:04:55 H4ns: I know... I mean a subset, just basic operations to manipulate io 13:05:14 H4ns: a sortof bootloader... 13:05:15 Posterdati: do an interpreter. maybe use xlisp. 13:05:39 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.209.125.1] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:05:40 Posterdati: or if it is the interactivity that you're after, look at amforth. forth is better suited to 8bit machines. 13:05:53 a compiler to an 8 bit machine sounds like an interesting challenge 13:05:55 H4ns: I am now. memeber-if seems more appropriate, but what would the test look like? 13:06:16 H4ns: my goal is create software for avr using a Lisp compiler on x86/x86-64, then interface with a bootloader to load that code into micro 13:06:20 dlowe_lt: even more challenging if it needs to fit onto the system, together with the run time. 13:06:47 francogrex: you need to figure that out :) 13:07:18 H4ns: no sorry, memeber-if is not appropriate here in my case 13:07:43 I need to input the item 13:07:47 H4ns: baby steps, eh? 13:08:31 -!- kpavn_ [A@nat/ibm/x-ihepofmetcvlokif] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:08:43 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- mrsolo [~mrsolo@adsl-68-126-182-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:4849:43ff:fe49:79bf] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- apastha [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-31.cust.suomicom.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1:124:ca0a:a9ff:fe03:3b99] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-oxrlqjbuxkagarea] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- reb` [user@nat/google/x-pxuomfayrumyjxfp] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:44 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 13:08:45 topo: it is not beatiful 13:08:57 (member i list ...) the i being a loop var 13:09:34 I really need to modify the :test... hmm 13:10:13 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 13:10:31 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 13:10:33 H4ns: for example, look at the power of doing (load (compile "test.lisp")) on the micro console :) and have the code loaded on the chip :) 13:10:44 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:10:47 lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 mrsolo [~mrsolo@adsl-68-126-182-17.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-31.cust.suomicom.fi] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:4849:43ff:fe49:79bf] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 apastha [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 daedric [~daedric@2a01:e0b:1:124:ca0a:a9ff:fe03:3b99] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 Yamazaki1kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 kanru [~kanru@kanru-1-pt.tunnel.tserv15.lax1.ipv6.he.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 gkeith_lt [georgekeit@nat/google/x-oxrlqjbuxkagarea] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 reb` [user@nat/google/x-pxuomfayrumyjxfp] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 13:10:47 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 13:10:49 pnq [~nick@AC83ADC4.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:02 Posterdati: do you have 8-bit addressing too? 13:11:04 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:11:05 Posterdati: i understand the power, but i think that an 8bit micro is just not the right environment for that. 13:11:51 aleron [~brad@154.sub-166-248-75.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 13:11:55 dlowe_lt: on higher chips > 128 kB 13:12:37 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:12:40 BrokenCog [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:14:22 topo: A few more things. 13:14:48 not beautiful? 13:14:50 1. closing parens generally shouldn't occupy a separate line. 13:14:59 Posterdati: using bank switching or something? 13:15:16 dlowe_lt: 3 byte PC 13:15:25 yeah i know 13:15:30 there only once i dont respect that 13:15:31 here: (defun betweenp (a b) (< (- (parse-integer b) 5) (parse-integer a) (+ (parse-integer b) 5))) and then (member "110" data :test #'betweenp :key #'(lambda (x) (nth 3 x))) solved! 13:15:48 2. identifier words are delimited with -, not dromedaryCase. 13:16:06 oh no 3 times 13:16:15 e.g. mouseMove 13:16:22 That's all. Congrats :) 13:16:30 with -? 13:16:43 like this ? -mouseMove ? 13:16:47 topo: mouse-move, not mouseMove 13:16:53 oh 13:16:54 ok 13:17:23 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:49 yes but besides of that aesthetic suggestions, why does the code is not working? 13:18:43 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:21:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.42.34] has joined #lisp 13:25:00 -!- duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 13:25:50 Posterdati: I'd be very happy to have a lisp on a mcu. there are others too; I guess you have googled http://arduino.cc/forum/index.php?topic=55873.0 13:26:34 which is just a compiler with lisp input and arduino output, but interesting nonetheless 13:26:39 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-eosohqnqfwbbcubi] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:26:59 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@117.192.42.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:27:10 and by arduino output I mean the C-code for arduino sdk 13:27:35 newcup: ok 13:27:39 newcup: interesting! 13:27:58 -!- enupten [~neptune@117.192.74.238] has quit [Quit: quitting...] 13:28:15 -!- lurker-x [~androirc@c-75-72-88-197.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 13:30:16 Posterdati: there's also http://hedgehog.oliotalo.fi/ but I haven't yet had time to take a better look at it 13:30:28 ok thanks 13:33:12 there's also clicc 13:33:24 which compiles a subset of CL into C 13:33:27 fr31s [~user@125.Red-83-37-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:46 I'd rather have a C compiler that compiles into CL :p 13:33:57 But I couldn't get it to work on EPOC32 13:34:08 gcl also compiles into C, though 13:34:24 because the resulting binary has a large .TEXT segment (> 64k) 13:34:33 with the names of the symbols 13:34:35 -!- aleron [~brad@154.sub-166-248-75.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:34:59 that would be a difficult thing to get rid of 13:35:02 dlowe_lt: right. but that's probably not a subset to make it work on small devices? 13:35:33 Hi 13:35:43 ehu: CL isn't a small language. I wouldn't expect it to be a good fit 13:36:46 I was wondering if it would be a good idea to implement user management things on a web app taking profit of common lisp packages ? 13:37:29 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.34] has joined #lisp 13:37:31 providing one package per user ? 13:37:51 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 13:38:20 aleron [~brad@34.sub-166-248-64.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 13:39:22 fr31s: there's no access control between packages 13:39:27 when a user logs perform (in-package :john_doe) and the function (get-private-messages) for example returns the messages in john_doe's inbox 13:39:29 fr31s: i'm not sure why packages would be a good fit there. 13:39:48 fr31s: a generic hash table would work just as well. 13:40:07 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fmfohzlqvwcdagry] has joined #lisp 13:40:23 -!- pnq [~nick@AC83ADC4.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:09 OK, anyway I'm trying to learn lisp for nth time and trying to do strange things :) 13:41:38 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:58 fr31s: is that the best way to learn lisp? 13:42:45 I don't know, just wondering what things could be done in lisp nearly impossible to do with perl for example 13:42:58 Cloud_ [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has joined #lisp 13:43:04 write readable code :-) 13:43:12 -!- Cloud_ is now known as cesarbp 13:43:17 newcup: tx, would be nice to have a Lisp ide for micros :) 13:43:37 the idea seems attractive in the sense that once a user logs in, you don't have to deal with cookies nor user ids and things like that 13:43:49 fr31s: macros seems to be an answer at least. 13:44:00 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.142.197] has joined #lisp 13:44:49 UCW used to work like that. I assume it still does. 13:45:10 yes, lisp macros are powerful, make me remember some things done in the past with yacc lex 13:45:30 UCW ? 13:46:17 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 13:46:34 fr31s: how do you know what what to use for the argument to in-package on each request? 13:47:27 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.251.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:48:17 dlowe_lt: that would be great, a C to lisp compiler... zeta C does that but also other systems like stella (although it's not really C to CL) 13:48:51 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-126-82.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:49:31 OK, there's no lisp http server that keeps track of such things ? in a sense that each user http request goes to the user's particular server repl ? 13:50:14 fr31s: common lisp does not have a notion of multiple users 13:50:51 fr31s: neither has HTTP 13:51:17 lisp's package system seems quite close, but http is really annoying in that sense, it's true 13:51:25 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:52:17 lisp's package system is for mapping strings to symbols 13:53:11 I'll try to rewrite some old application in Perl in lisp ... trying also to don't get lost on my own thoughts, to learn from scratch 13:57:35 I'm quite impressed of the packages as sqlite, html-parse ... asdf is my friend now 13:58:06 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:34 fr31s: try quicklisp (quicklisp.org) 13:59:10 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 14:01:53 kruhft [~user@209.89.22.115] has joined #lisp 14:01:54 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:02:34 already tried it following this screencast http://xach.com/lisp/linedit-screencast.gif 14:02:44 works using asdf I suppose 14:03:35 and downloads packages as required while executing the program ... that's much more impressive than cpan tools 14:04:46 I will be giving a talk about Quicklisp next month in Amsterdam 14:05:03 Xach: very nice. 14:05:22 Xach: we probably have something to announce in Amsterdam as well. 14:05:22 (we == abcl developers) 14:05:43 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-heubkgdbhkmykseg] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:05:48 minecraft mod engine in abcl? 14:05:52 *Xach* crosses fingers, hopes 14:06:04 hehe! 14:06:23 Xach: are you still working on QL mostly alone? Or are you working on developing a community? 14:06:56 ehu: Mostly alone. There are a number of things I want to do to make it easier to collaborate. 14:07:42 well, it seems QL has caught on, so, it's a nice time to start spreading the "load" 14:07:53 Xach: do you have anything written up somewhere how e.g. I could help with packaging dwim.hu stuff? 14:09:32 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 14:09:55 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:57 for example I could provide tags throughout all the repos that snapshot a working combination (I already do that, but we could script the packaging based on that) 14:11:09 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:13:01 OK, the metaclass stuff I decided to do works. This is why I love Lisp, and it's also why the pursuit of perfection can be so annoying in Lisp. On one hand, I've spent a lot of time getting this stuff right... On the other hand, I'm now able to specify the mapping of XML data -> Class in the class definition without writing any code. This is the code required to get the basic information from Google Contacts read properly. Note the abscense of m 14:13:02 anual XML manipulation: 14:13:05 http://code.google.com/p/cl-gdata/source/browse/src/contacts.lisp 14:13:22 attila_lendvai: I don't have anything written up, tags would help 14:14:03 attila_lendvai: my biggest fear with grabbing stuff from source is getting bad combinations that aren't obviously bad, e.g. they build but fail at runtime in some obscure way 14:15:10 Xach: our answer for that is having the LIVE and HEAD repos. as long as people pull from the LIVE set, things should integrate well (as well as the devs can achieve) 14:15:23 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:16:07 I'm adding tags for various projects that use another given set of repo states (e.g. 2011-01-01-nafi where nafi is the name of a project of ours) 14:16:35 How can I tell if I'm using live vs head? 14:16:58 i'm getting hu.dwim.common from http://dwim.hu/darcs/hu.dwim.common/ - is that right? is there something better? 14:17:09 but I could add stuff like 2011-01-01-quicklisp or -live... but I don't want to run ahead. let's think about this a bit in a broader scope involving other projects 14:17:50 Xach: that's the head. you can pull from here and that will be the codebase that runs the dwim.hu site: http://dwim.hu/live/hu.dwim.common/ 14:17:53 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.34] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:18:16 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:17 e.g. perec has some unbaked changes, some 3 patches that cause headache in HEAD, but is not pulled to live yet 14:18:57 Do you recommend I switch repos? 14:19:46 Xach: that's a definite yes. 14:19:52 Ok, will do. 14:20:17 attila_lendvai: For every dwim.hu project? 14:20:46 yes, that will make life much less painful, shielding you from most of the random integration issues 14:21:37 *Xach* rewrites source info, recranks 14:22:28 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:23:13 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 14:23:27 naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-106-167.w82-122.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:23:29 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 14:24:52 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-rxwkoiwvyfeqkrlv] has joined #lisp 14:25:46 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Client Quit] 14:25:59 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 14:27:32 -!- nicdev_` is now known as nicdev_ 14:27:53 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 14:28:14 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: tfb] 14:31:06 have interested party to help work on cdr.io .. might get that started soon. 14:32:00 What is cdr.io? 14:32:06 also potential opportunity coming up to introduce lisp at my company. :) 14:32:35 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-216.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:38 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-216.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 14:33:03 Xach: I was thinking of something like CPAN for lisp.. mostly a place that aggregates packages, runs smoke tests on various compilers/OSs, collects docs, etc 14:33:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518c5d.virtua.com.br] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:33:28 not really sure at this point. 14:33:39 just ideas right now 14:34:13 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:19 nice 14:34:47 I think a lot of projects that are broken on some implementation/OS combination are just accidentally broken, and would be fixed if someone noticed the problem. 14:35:19 yeah.. and some packages just don't work on some platforms because the author doesn't have access to them 14:35:35 smoke tests are pretty helpful in the perl community 14:35:41 i think i need to reject pro@ posts through gmame from now on. i get loads of bounces because gmame is considered a spam source by many SA installations. 14:35:44 just so you know. 14:36:12 figure it couldn't hurt to have some such service for cl 14:36:13 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:37:21 i just really like lisp and would like to see wider adoption and a community adopted dev toolchain might help 14:37:33 -!- apastha is now known as gcentauri 14:38:05 though I'm not sure what's already out there 14:38:14 so if anyone has ideas, I'm all ears. 14:38:17 If I could have a pony, it would be SBCL and CCL working together to have standards for unstandardized things like socket and thread handling. 14:38:46 that would be an awesome pony 14:39:08 yeah, sockets would be nice 14:39:10 though not necessarily limited to just those two 14:40:48 Xach: if you switch the repo urls, and you don't freshly darcs get the repos, bur rather only darcs pull them, then make sure you don't have local patches (for example in case of perec, you'd have 3 extra patches from head that way) 14:41:32 They are into fresh directories 14:43:06 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:43:16 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:44:14 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.230] has joined #lisp 14:44:32 *Xach* will report on success/fail in 90 minutes or so 14:45:11 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 14:46:47 lurker-x [~androirc@32.144.49.254] has joined #lisp 14:46:48 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 14:47:02 newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has joined #lisp 14:47:41 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:47:57 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.230] has joined #lisp 14:57:51 -!- macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:02:39 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:03:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.142.197] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:10:33 Xach: I'm trying Norvig's Scheme interpreter and compiler, would be nice to use it for generating avr (or other mcu) code :) 15:15:00 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 15:19:13 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:20:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-fmfohzlqvwcdagry] has left #lisp 15:21:27 Posterdati: I wrote a scheme compiler from this paper. Maybe it could help you in your quest: http://scheme2006.cs.uchicago.edu/11-ghuloum.pdf 15:21:33 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:21:59 dlowe: thanks 15:22:56 dlowe: like Norvig stated on his book :) 15:23:14 Posterdati: hm? 15:23:47 dlowe: you wrote in the final words that it is simple to write a Scheme compiler for a particular hardware :) 15:25:22 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 15:27:45 I thought dlowe's name was Derek, not Abdulaziz. 15:27:57 ok 15:28:07 Xach: er, no. Daniel 15:28:24 Posterdati: I didn't write the paper 15:28:45 Whaaaat! 15:29:04 *Xach* undoes his edits to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derek_Lowe in that case 15:29:29 hah 15:30:25 dlowe: ah ok, you wrote from that paper, ok ok 15:33:04 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:05 HG` [~HG@p5DC05C78.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.49.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:34:38 macobo [~Karl@63.19.50.84.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 15:35:25 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:35:55 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:36:51 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:37:35 FirewalkR [~firewalkr@213.58.147.215] has joined #lisp 15:43:25 -!- fr31s [~user@125.Red-83-37-245.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:49:37 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:41 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:54:09 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:34 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 16:04:01 -!- macobo [~Karl@63.19.50.84.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:04:46 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:07:38 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 16:08:44 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:10:27 littlegiraffe [~littlegir@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 16:11:34 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 16:13:21 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:14:23 -!- FirewalkR [~firewalkr@213.58.147.215] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 16:18:23 -!- xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:21:56 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:17 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 16:26:52 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has left #lisp 16:27:19 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:43 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.229.230] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:29:55 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:26 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host86-136-238-48.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:32:38 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:42 attila_lendvai: hu.dwim.wui is not in /live/? 16:37:54 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:38:47 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:40:06 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:09 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:42:54 SegFault1X [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:43:32 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:44:36 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:18 macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 16:48:37 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:49:27 -!- zenbalrog [~johnnyc@adsl-98-86-72-4.tys.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.3] 16:51:19 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@GYYYKMCDXXIX.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:59 nostoi [~nostoi@37.Red-79-157-250.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:12 -!- elliottcableOff is now known as elliottcable 16:54:38 xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:24 -!- MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 16:56:36 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:57:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-216.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:58:35 Xach: wui has been split into web-server and presentation, dwim.hu runs on the new repos 16:58:44 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-216.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:59:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-216.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:00:09 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-216.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:00:22 ok 17:02:34 -!- lbc [~quassel@1908ds1-aboes.0.fullrate.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:04 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:04:18 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:32 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:04:41 akovalenko: "18:08:39 maxm--: it's only if you have your defgenerics reevaluated -- then methods go away" <-- No, the only methods that a "re-evaluated" DEFGENERIC would remove would be those introduced with the :method option to the previous evaluation of the DEFGENERIC. 17:05:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:08:54 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 17:14:59 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:16:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:10 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 17:20:54 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:21:42 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:22:14 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 17:23:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:24:48 Posterdati: Feeley's lab has a full r4rs + call/cc for ucontrollers. We used (read: debugged ;) it for a summer camp a couple years ago: HS kids drove PIC-based robots with scheme. It's based on a C VM, so it shouldn't be too hard to port it to another arch. 17:25:11 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 17:25:26 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 17:28:11 pnq [~nick@ACA2F147.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:29:18 -!- setmeaway [stemearay@119.201.52.182] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:29:33 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.182] has joined #lisp 17:30:20 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:31:32 -!- nostoi [~nostoi@37.Red-79-157-250.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 17:31:50 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 17:33:42 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-mhkmvskqerdubztb] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:34:14 zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 17:34:18 hello 17:34:43 is it possible to make SWIG declare C function that accepts const char * as accepting :string rather than a :pointer? 17:37:46 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:37:59 Cloud [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has joined #lisp 17:41:22 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:49:09 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:49:50 markskil1eck [~mark@host86-136-238-48.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 17:50:53 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:03 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-52-51.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 17:51:08 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 17:51:14 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@pool-108-20-97-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 17:51:23 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:56:21 jdz [~jdz@host61-105-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 18:00:31 -!- Amyn [~abennama@62.23.212.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:02:16 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-228.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:23 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-228.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:02:24 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:04:42 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:44 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:46 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-216.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:04:50 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-158-216.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:07:03 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:07:16 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-228.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:07:16 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-228.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 18:14:17 cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:17:52 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2455.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:19:24 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:21:47 cheezus1 [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:11 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:23:57 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 259 seconds] 18:25:09 eulyix [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:29:27 If you wanted to find the letter differences between two words, how would you represents sets of characters? I'm looking for something that supports fast removal and indexing. At first set-difference looked promising, but clearly I'm dealing with mutlisets. Thanks. 18:29:46 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:30:46 What kind of letter differences? 18:31:42 Xach, for instance: DIFFERENCE("Xach" , "cat") would be "xth" 18:32:13 because "ca" is common 18:32:30 (disregarding order) 18:32:55 eulyix: I'd probably start with list representation and used set-difference :) 18:33:04 *Xach* too 18:33:05 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 18:33:14 eulyix: (set-difference (coerce "Xach" 'list) ...) 18:33:18 so, union-intersection? 18:34:16 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:35:16 set-exclusive-or may be more appropriate than set-difference 18:35:29 Hm, I'm not sure now why I disregarded set-difference. 18:35:52 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 18:36:12 s-d doesn't return the elements in list2 that aren't in list1 18:36:30 By switching the arguments, I can obtain which letters need to be added/deleted to make a word. 18:37:36 cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:37:37 I'm working on the Rebus problem (http://www.itasoftware.com/careers/work-at-ita/hiring-puzzles.html) in case this seems completely out of context 18:37:40 -!- macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Quit: Tsau] 18:37:42 fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518c5d.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 18:38:22 Representing words as sets and taking differences seems like a sensible way of forging this rebuses (sp?) 18:38:35 super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 18:38:37 Not sure if there's a more Lispy way :) 18:39:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:39:36 *Xach* has no idea what forging a rebuses might entail 18:39:54 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2F147.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:41:05 Sorry, an example is given "solve" you can make it with "dove" +sl - d (taken from the ITA page) 18:41:15 -!- cheezus1 [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:41:50 By taking set differences "solve" "dove" and "dove" "solve" you get the necessary additions/deletions 18:42:29 I think that's what eulyix means 18:42:59 Right 18:43:26 eulyix: (ql:quickload :levenshtein) may be relevant, too 18:43:59 eulyix: Reading Peter Seibel's interviews most good programmers oppose quizzes and puzzles as recruiting tools. 18:44:25 antoszka, I'm just doing it for fun 18:45:08 really just for an exercise to learn lisp 18:45:57 Sure, they may be fun, that was just a side comment. I'm curious myself. 18:46:17 *akovalenko* thinks that set-difference, intersect and union are *surely* good advice for learning & fun 18:46:44 cheezus1 [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:09 Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.181.73] has joined #lisp 18:48:24 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:55 -!- cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:49:51 puzzles are good and fun, but its kind of hard coming up with "clever" under pressure.. I personally accept any "good enough" solution to the puzzles, and prefer to give "find bug in this piece of code" type questions 18:50:54 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:51:03 akovalenko, thanks for the tip. Looks promising. Would rather implement it myself at the moment, though. 18:51:54 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:36 maxm---, problems requiring cleverness though are quite useful for finding out how an applicant approaches a tough problem. 18:52:52 Which I imagine is why most employers use such problems. 18:53:49 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:55:21 ie lets say you writing an email program with cmdline interface, there is a "list" command to display emails numbering them sequentially, user can type "delete 1,3,7" command to delete emails numbered 1, 3 and 7.. Following code is part of "delete" command: 18:55:30 emails is sequence, indexes is sequence containing indexes, in above example (1 3 7) void deleteEmails (ArrayList emails, ArrayList indexes) { foreach (i : indexes) emails.remove(i); } find the logic bug in above code 18:55:51 amazingly how many very good candidates stumble even after thinking for 20 minutes 18:58:06 -!- cheezus1 [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:37 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:58:51 maxm---: are indices of "higher" positions adjusted when an element is deleted? (don't really know ArrayList-s) 18:58:59 maxm---: then it's pretty obvious :) 18:58:59 yup 18:59:06 followup is to rewrite the code to work correctly 19:00:34 do it the scheme way, return a new list 19:00:40 maxm---: (if it's really legal to modify structure in foreach body) add int delta=0; for index adjustment, do delta++ on each step 19:00:59 delete 3,1,7 19:01:03 -!- samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:01:05 -!- blacktooth [~blacktoot@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:01:21 sorry, no structure *under* foreach is modified 19:01:35 + for my delta-trick to work, indices are to be sorted 19:01:44 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:01:46 akovalenko: you must have some serious reader hacks with all those curly braces 19:02:11 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:02:17 yup thats the followup.. I accept any solution, pretty much brute force ones is fine too.. IMHO the fastest is making array of booleans, then walk the list copying the elements into new one if corresponding boolean is set in the booleans array 19:02:53 maxm---: fastest? Not with my inbox of 40k messages. 19:02:53 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 19:02:56 some ppl do hashes, some walk indexes back and forward adjusting them, these are usually the most trouble since I have to sit with them there for 10 minutes tyring to figure out if what they wrote works :-) 19:03:48 yea sort indexes then use adjustment works too 19:03:53 but then you need remove dups too 19:04:48 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D479.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:04:59 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 19:05:15 maxm---: or just skip points where adjusted index is less than previous adjusted index :) 19:05:38 maxm---: it's actually "deduplicate as you go" 19:06:15 and you can do the remove step in-place. 19:06:47 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:51 samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:18 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 19:07:44 but at least for me personally the preffered code is either hash table or array of booleans method. Reason is because its (at least to me) the most understandable... I can look at 5 lines of array of booleans method, and immediately see its correct. You have to put the brain into "brain y u no smart" mode to understand the delta method 19:08:05 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:08:20 the keep-a-delta method is actually natural when you do it in-place. 19:08:23 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 19:08:31 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:41 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:08:52 (which, unlike calling remove iteratively, ensures that the array is only traversed once) 19:09:07 maxm---: well, for me "delta" is a result of some years with awfully-scripted accounting software (where one gets an item from db cursors..) 19:09:30 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:09:44 maxm---: hence the solution that doesn't rely on anything "advanced" :) 19:10:06 maxm---: like hash tables (or even booleans) 19:10:20 -!- pjb` [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:10:30 -!- zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 19:11:56 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:12:24 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-126-82.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:12:51 anyway, back to work for me (as our building intercommed after a fire drill) "you can now resume your normal activities" 19:13:50 -!- lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:14:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:15:43 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 265 seconds] 19:16:54 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:16:58 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:40 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:17:44 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 19:17:45 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:01 -!- quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:20:06 quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has joined #lisp 19:21:11 I seem to be unable to decipher the cl-markdown documentation. 19:21:44 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 19:22:09 How do I convert a markdown text to html? i think i need to call cl-markdown:render-to-stream with the result of (cl-markdown:markdown sometext) 19:22:31 But I have no Idea what the other arguments for render-to-stream are 19:22:48 ramusara_ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 19:23:03 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:23:04 Amyn1 [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:23:26 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:24:05 The documentation has "(markdown "# Hello *there*") => [a string of html]" 19:24:57 phryk: it seems that you don't need render-to-stream, as markdown itself has :format and :stream 19:26:03 phryk: (didn't read documentation, just tried MARKDOWN after quickloading :CL-MARKDOWN. It returns an object, but also prints HTML) 19:26:40 oh yes right 19:26:48 haven't looked at the terminal 19:26:58 -!- psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:27:42 phryk: you may bind markdown's *default-stream* to something other when needed 19:29:13 phryk: ..but using :stream seems to be preferred 19:29:27 psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.174] has joined #lisp 19:30:01 mhh :stream would be *standard-output* 19:30:05 right?^^ 19:30:30 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.181.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:30:42 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:31:04 phryk: didn't look, but it seems that it's assigned from *standard-output* at load time (which would be weird, of course) 19:31:17 hi, is there any way to look up how many arguments/keys/etc. a function takes given it's name? 19:31:51 egn: as of the CL spec, you may have luck with function-lambda-expression 19:31:59 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:31:59 -!- pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:32:16 pkhuong [~pkhuong@gravelga.xen.prgmr.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:25 Ah mom i think it has to be nil 19:32:34 egn: (apropos "arglist") is likely to give you something useful on many CLs out there 19:32:46 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-168-148.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:32:46 egn: but that would be implementation-dependent 19:33:37 *Xach* starts lisptips.tumblr.com and echos it to twitter.com/lisptips 19:33:46 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:34:03 egn: or you may look at SLIME sources to find out how it's done on your platform 19:34:47 egn: anyway, be aware that this platform-specific stuff may be unreliable, even if it works in more cases than function-lambda-expression 19:35:18 egn: e.g. SBCL won't keep this info when compiling with (debug 0) 19:36:19 akovalenko: thanks. hm, it only has to work with SBCL (personal project) 19:36:23 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:36:33 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 19:37:47 egn: then (sb-introspect:function-arglist 'your-function) 19:38:28 egn: (you may need (require :sb-introspect) for it ) 19:38:40 akovalenko: perfect! thanks 19:39:05 cheezus [~Adium@75-144-26-36-sfba-ca.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:31 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:42:37 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:42:48 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:55 Xach: lisptips.tumblr.com -- seems to be a great idea (remembering how I lurked CLL archives for similar "unconfusing" tips). while I'm skeptical on cookbooks/recipes, perhaps the opposite thing ("how not to prepare poisonous food") is just what is needed :) 19:45:40 akovalenko: I hope somebody finds it useful. I hope it's not too boring for experienced users or too advanced for new users. 19:45:54 the discussion about format's "v" yesterday prompted the idea. 19:46:00 i thought everyone knew about it already! 19:46:19 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has left #lisp 19:46:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 19:47:40 phryk: from cl-markdown: (defparameter *default-stream* *standard-output*) 19:47:40 19:47:52 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 19:47:55 phryk: so it's really *that* weird 19:48:33 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-135.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:49:18 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 19:49:28 a synonym-stream would make more sense. 19:49:46 Xach: I was going to ask: wouldn't it make a good tip? use a synonym stream instead of load-time (defparameter *default-stream* *standard-output*) 19:49:52 gtoast [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has joined #lisp 19:50:11 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:50:54 akovalenko: yes 19:51:51 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:53:21 oooh, synonym-streams. <3 19:54:12 graaah 19:54:15 I'm too fucking dumb. 19:54:23 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:54:45 according to the doc, the result is written into a string if i give :stream NIL 19:54:46 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:54:52 i did :stream NIL and :format :html 19:54:57 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:54:57 -!- sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:54:58 but only get the damned object notation 19:55:26 phryk: have you considered reading the documentation? 19:55:55 that's not how I read the docs in the github repo. 19:55:58 pkhuong: he's probably not at *that* bad stage yet :) 19:55:59 -!- samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:56:06 p_l [plasek@gateway/shell/rootnode.net/x-gvzsdgfldttuvcyq] has joined #lisp 19:56:29 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:56:41 phryk: (nth-value 1 (markdown ...)) 19:56:47 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:56:50 samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 19:56:52 phryk: and please read the documentation, indeed :) 19:57:17 kpreid [~kpreid@Conors-iPad.wlan.clarkson.edu] has joined #lisp 19:57:19 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:24 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:57:25 ideally until the end of the relevant section. 19:57:27 sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has joined #lisp 20:01:43 FirewalkR [~firewalkr@136.176.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:02:15 could someone take a look at this and short example of a loop i can't get to behave properly: http://pastie.org/private/dbppnylixwap2z05d9cwza 20:02:32 I basically want to either minimize or maximize X based on a variable 20:02:35 -!- felideon [~fdelgado@184.105.242.75] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:03:26 derrida: i'd write it in lisp :) 20:03:33 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:03:39 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-228.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:03:51 (reduce (if .. #'max #'min) '(1 2 3)) 20:03:55 derrida: it works for me (on SBCL) 20:04:32 H4ns: :P 20:04:40 derrida: it seems that if it doesn't work, you have a bug in your CL implementation 20:04:46 hm 20:04:52 i use sbcl, i get warnings though 20:05:30 i get style-warnings for unused variables, for obvious reason 20:05:37 but no real warning 20:06:15 akovalenko: what are the obvious reasons :\ 20:06:16 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D479.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:44 -!- sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:06:44 -!- DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:07:22 derrida: after a minute of thinking, they seem less obvious to me, too 20:07:28 DrForr [~jgoff@li165-209.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 20:07:50 sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has joined #lisp 20:07:55 btw, it's even worse with (loop repeat 1 sum 2 count 3) (fails on macroexpand) 20:08:03 urandom__ [~user@p548A47B0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:07 -!- samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:08:08 (the latter was already reported as a bug) 20:08:14 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:08:16 samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:18 hmm 20:08:41 -!- neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:08:54 reduce is the answer 20:09:19 but there will be huge lists swapped around with reduce 20:09:27 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:28 derrida: ? 20:09:43 derrida: reduce doesn't swap huge lists 20:09:55 derrida: ...whatever you mean by that.. 20:10:35 generally, walking away from bugs is not "the answer", it's only a temporal relief 20:11:02 sorry about the swapping comment, i got confusd 20:11:07 derrida: what lists are swapped? also premature optimization 20:11:25 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has left #lisp 20:11:36 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 20:12:35 SegFault2X [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 20:12:36 SegFault3X [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 20:12:43 s/swap/sweep ? 20:13:00 -!- SegFault1X [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:16 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:14:30 -!- sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:15:06 -!- aleron [~brad@34.sub-166-248-64.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:15:09 sausages [~sausages@balmora.robotjunkyard.org] has joined #lisp 20:15:41 felideon [~fdelgado@184.105.242.75] has joined #lisp 20:16:13 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:17:12 srolls [~user@167.216.131.126] has joined #lisp 20:19:33 a sweeping generalization? 20:21:22 a mark-n-sweeping generalization, maybe (generational generalizations are more effective, but more complex :) 20:22:01 bobbysmith007: elements are inline, not block, nor pre... 20:22:55 -!- FirewalkR [~firewalkr@136.176.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 20:23:09 dwim [~dwim@0.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:13 dwim_ [~dwim@0.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:02 -!- dwim_ [~dwim@0.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 20:27:50 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 20:30:00 -!- dwim [~dwim@0.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 20:31:26 dwim [~dwim@0.Red-79-156-38.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:32:41 dto1 [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:23 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: Goodbye all.] 20:36:13 -!- dto1 is now known as dto 20:39:18 francogrex [~user@109.130.146.198] has joined #lisp 20:40:47 peterhil` [~peterhil@GGYZMMDCCLXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 20:43:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:43:01 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:43:01 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:45:29 yay 20:45:32 HG`` [~HG@p5DC05EB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:36 got it all done :) 20:47:36 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:47:58 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:58 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 20:47:58 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:47:58 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05C78.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:48:32 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@Conors-iPad.wlan.clarkson.edu] has quit [Quit: Offline] 20:50:49 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-234-117.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:53:47 anddam [~anddam@151.70.104.145] has joined #lisp 20:53:49 hello 20:54:06 is there a specific ecl syntax for files' path? 20:54:49 I'm building ecl on osx and it's full of lines like (load "src:lsp;export.lsp" :verbose nil) 20:55:04 that's a logical pathname 20:55:27 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:49 well, not that logical to me 20:55:52 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:56:00 (and that's a joke) 20:56:30 anddam: logical pathnames are a standard common lisp concept 20:56:46 anddam: they are rather baroque, though. 20:56:51 let me pastebin, a paste is worth a few thousands chars 20:56:51 anddam: Read about CL's pathname system. 20:57:03 http://pastesite.com/26557 20:57:11 it's breaking badly 20:57:34 but I assume ecl_min should be able to handle a common lisp pathname (I'm almost totally new to lisp) 20:57:38 anddam: if it's breaking, then something didn't set logical-pathname-translations correctly 20:58:11 anddam: if you are totally new to lisp, i'd recommend learning with an implementation that is better supported. 20:58:22 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.185] has joined #lisp 20:58:59 H4ns: I am, thanks 20:59:11 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:59:50 anddam: in this channel, sbcl, clozure cl and clisp are the best supported implementations. 20:59:51 blacktooth [~blacktoot@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:05 and abcl 21:00:28 true, and abcl 21:00:33 (in that order :) ) 21:00:56 ;p 21:03:29 still I'd like to understand the reason 21:03:32 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:47 anddam: post to the ecl mailing list 21:04:05 good point 21:04:21 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:04:59 -!- jdz [~jdz@host61-105-dynamic.9-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Quit: Byebye.] 21:06:28 nvm I changed compiler and it passed the point in which it was breaking 21:06:46 dbushenko [~dim@149-108.vpn.aichyna.com] has joined #lisp 21:07:42 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 21:09:46 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 21:09:47 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC05EB3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG``] 21:10:55 heh, flexichain doesn't actually implement with-editing-operations 21:12:36 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:12:38 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:55 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:19 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:14:10 bye, thanks 21:14:22 I'm back to my lisp book 21:14:36 anddam: Which one is that? 21:14:49 land of lisp 21:15:02 Good stuff. 21:15:06 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.146.198] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:15:20 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:15:29 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-rxwkoiwvyfeqkrlv] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:16:02 music video and comics were dealmakers 21:16:11 it's a fun book (: 21:16:15 (and a good intro to lisp) 21:17:28 bye 21:17:56 antifuchs: many books are academic, land of lisp is academic and fun at the same time 21:18:09 funcademic 21:18:16 -!- anddam [~anddam@151.70.104.145] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:26 not sure if I'd call it academic, but it doesn't have many errors in it that I could spot 21:18:29 so that's good (: 21:19:27 antifuchs: Norvig books are only academic :) good, but they explain so much things in very few pages :) 21:20:11 GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:34 sellout- [~Adium@173-8-242-217-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:58 antifuchs: same difference between Kernigan & Ritchie c book and stroustrup bible 21:23:43 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:00 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:25:32 does clozure have compiler explanations or an equivalent? 21:25:56 Cloud [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has joined #lisp 21:26:25 -!- Cloud is now known as cesarbp 21:28:11 ccl doesn't generate cmucl-like efficiency notes. 21:29:50 rme: thanks 21:30:19 marsell [~marsell@120.20.67.225] has joined #lisp 21:32:09 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:36:17 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-135.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:39:07 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:39:37 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-165-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:39:40 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-165-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:22 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-167-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:22 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:27 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:43:13 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 21:43:35 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:58 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:44:14 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host86-136-238-48.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:44:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:44:43 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:45:03 wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:06 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@99-39-241-71.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:45:06 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 21:45:19 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:45:56 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:46:15 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 21:46:19 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-172.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:46:23 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:50:27 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Client Quit] 21:50:31 1`ttuop[ 21:50:31 \ 21:52:50 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:53:04 Sorry. Attack of the small kid. 21:53:14 -!- dbushenko [~dim@149-108.vpn.aichyna.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 21:54:24 not nearly as vicious as ferret attacks 21:54:38 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:54:59 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:55:34 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:55:44 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 21:58:06 -!- gtoast [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:58:20 gtoast [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has joined #lisp 22:01:39 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 22:04:31 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:05:19 ltriant [~ltriant@110-174-168-43.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:05:32 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:07:14 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 22:07:22 -!- rmarianski is now known as rmar|brb 22:08:47 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 22:10:33 -!- ramusara_ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:15:10 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:26 benny [~benny@i577A25A1.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 22:22:37 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-37.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:23:21 -!- tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:30:23 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:33:55 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 22:35:02 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:06 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 22:38:55 -!- dans [~daniel@92.80.124.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:40:44 dans [~daniel@92.80.124.91] has joined #lisp 22:40:49 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:41:36 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-234-117.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:43:07 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.234.117] has joined #lisp 22:49:18 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:51:36 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.215.89] has joined #lisp 22:53:02 -!- sellout- [~Adium@173-8-242-217-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:56 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:54:56 -!- kpreid_ is now known as kpreid 22:56:34 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 22:57:34 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 22:58:50 lusory [~bart@bb115-66-195-54.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:02:21 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:02:30 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:03:34 -!- rme [rme@696C65D6.F26E1912.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:03:34 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:04:27 -!- rmar|brb is now known as rmarianski 23:05:18 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:10:39 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:10:44 I've learnt that Lisper's embed their own mini-languages into the language all the time, I'm curious why such an awful mini-language was chosen for FORMAT. Why could it have been less terse? In particular, the pretty printer interface. Why doesn't it resemble a more typical language? 23:11:04 *couldn't 23:11:26 a more typical language like RPG? (-: 23:11:50 eulyix: Somehow I feel like the answer would be kinda along the lines "it was back when men^Wprogrammers were REAL PROGRAMMERS" 23:12:14 not to mention used to stranger things 23:12:32 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 23:12:36 I see :-( 23:12:54 Maybe creating a new format language can be my next project. 23:12:57 ^^ 23:13:30 I guess I'm just one of those proverbial pacman kids. 23:13:39 you could use... OUT 23:13:42 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:13:45 eulyix: there's drew mcdermott's variation. 23:13:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:13:58 eulyix: as sykopomp just mentioned. 23:14:13 *eulyix* searches 23:14:18 eulyix: also, you can call out to your own functions with ~/function/ 23:14:23 -!- stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has quit [Quit: ZNC - http://znc.sourceforge.net] 23:14:25 it's part of his YTools package, when you search 23:14:28 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.89] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 23:14:43 daniel weinreb wrote FORMAT iirc 23:15:00 These days, I find myself using plain old stream output with simple FORMAT expressions. 23:15:05 that, and pre-cooked recipes from PCL. 23:15:22 PCL? 23:15:29 Practical ... ? 23:15:31 Common Lisp 23:15:32 http://gigamonkeys.com/book 23:15:33 Right. 23:15:36 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [*.net *.split] 23:15:50 it has a section with format recipes that I find myself going back to. 23:15:56 s/section/chapter/ 23:15:59 -!- super__ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:16:38 I dislike the idea of having to refer to a recipe page for using a formatting routine. 23:16:49 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:17:09 you could grab the recipe, put it into a function in util.lisp, and imagine you wrote it out longhand. 23:17:18 >.> 23:17:38 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 23:17:45 "~{~#[~;~a~;~a and ~a~:;~@{~a~#[~;, and ~:;, ~]~}~]~}" is the particular recipe I've taken. 23:17:58 I didn't particularly like my longhand version either. 23:18:47 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:52 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 23:19:14 Thanks for the help. 23:20:07 happy hacking 23:21:06 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 23:24:06 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 23:30:55 -!- eulyix [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:30:55 -!- xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 23:35:52 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.148.2] has left #lisp 23:38:14 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:41:23 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 23:49:44 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:50:01 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:50:36 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:50:41 -!- Cam is now known as PyIRC 23:50:52 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:51:41 gtoast_ [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has joined #lisp 23:51:41 -!- gtoast_ [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has quit [Client Quit] 23:52:31 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518c5d.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:53:15 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:53:40 -!- PyIRC is now known as Cam 23:54:01 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54:39 -!- gtoast [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:55:56 stepnem_ [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 23:55:57 aleron [~Brad@cpe-098-025-205-230.sc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:58:29 -!- Cam is now known as PyIRc 23:58:46 -!- PyIRc is now known as PyIRC 23:59:45 -!- PyIRC [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Changing host] 23:59:45 PyIRC [~i@unaffiliated/cam/bot/pyirc] has joined #lisp