00:00:12 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 00:00:32 bobbysmith007: i know about pygments, the reason i want something in lisp is because the site i want to use it on is written in lisp 00:00:58 phryk: pastebot has a highlighter for some languages built in. 00:01:06 I just don't know where you can get the source for that 00:01:12 should be on common-lisp.net somewhere (: 00:01:25 _3b: that's good enough for me :) 00:01:43 antifuchs: doesn't matter, colorize seems nice enough :) 00:02:13 Thanks for the info, I'm going to sleep now. 00:02:21 rme: ACM paywall? 00:02:27 I'm at a university right now, looks like I can read it. 00:02:59 So as it turns out the bignum implementation that my group has developed is more unbounded than the GMP bignum. It looks like some lisp implementations use GMP. 00:03:15 'More unbounded' sounds silly. 00:03:22 'less bounded'? 00:03:53 Our implementation is based on some work in information theory, it's got the lower bound on overhead. 00:04:21 Just think: It all becomes unary in the end. 00:04:25 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@pool-108-20-97-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:04:38 So this paper is very helpful rme, thanks. 00:04:48 I happen to be familiar with ccl's bignum implementation. It represents bignums as a vector of 32-bit "bigits" in little-endian order. I believe sbcl uses a similar representation. 00:05:39 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:05:47 This is essentially gmp's basic representation, if I remember correctly. 00:05:59 GMP seems to use a resizable vector 00:06:15 but it has a lot of overhead. Mostly on resizing, and on the size itself. 00:07:22 Also, the size is bound to sizeof(size_t)*(2^255). That's not unbounded at all. 00:07:48 er, sizeof(size_t)*2^32, mistake. 00:08:53 It's also probably true that most bignums are only a few bigits long (I would conjecture that most are 1 or 2 words long), so any constant factor in the bignum operations needs to be small. 00:09:30 xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 00:10:48 What my group is interested in is the bound of it. We don't like how everything is bounded today. For programs to last for all time through the growth of technology (see: Who would ever need more than 637kb of memory!?) there should be no bound whatsoever. 00:12:31 So we've started a company around this for a nice A.I. program that can deal with arbitrary amounts of data. We have an unbounded database that we're working on now. Also: It uses any memory device that it can find with room for expansion. i.e. it can use the bits on your hard-drive to store your number too. 00:13:13 Who do you think would be interested in buying this unbounded database? We've been careful not to add any bounds to it, and it's been a nightmare to get this far. We're looking for possible clients now 00:13:26 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:14:07 Linked lists? 00:14:11 Ha 00:15:12 Linked lists is close actually chibapet. but the address of the next node is bounded. It won't span a memory device that's infinitely long. 00:15:19 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 00:15:33 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@66-87-21-212.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:55 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-070.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 00:15:56 Our rule of thumb was: If you put a bounded data type in it, the whole thing becomes bounded. So it turns out that the guy who said it all comes down to unary is correct. 00:15:57 That's an implementation detail. 00:17:15 Is this not somewhat constrained by OS implementation specifics? 00:17:24 I'm made of cells. Each has a limited function and can't accomplish much on its own. Groups of them can't do much. And yet, I don't tend to think of my consciousness as being bounded because the mechanism is composed of little fleshy cells. 00:19:41 ah but chibapet: Suppose you had a number that required N bits, where N is 8*(2^32). (All of the bits in a 4GiB memory) and you made a linked list to span that memory and hold these bits. What happens when you expand again? Where does the next node go? Your size_t can not hold the address of the next node. 00:20:26 Even if you had 8 GiB memory in your computer, if you were on a 32 bit operating system (sizeof(size_t) = 32 bits), you *can't* make your unbounded number any larger than 4GiB. 00:20:45 So the rule of thumb is still there, see? 00:21:02 There's no need for uniformity. You said you expand into whatever space is available. So you deal with whatever chunks you can address on whatever devices you can access, and allow for room to index things appropriately. 00:21:26 ChibaPet: And what can you address? 00:21:36 Anything. Your index can expand with the data. 00:21:53 Index? You mean the address of the next node? 00:22:19 Location of the next node. Address is a limiting description. You are expanding onto a range of media. 00:22:35 Location is an address. In computers it has to be an address. 00:22:41 -!- borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:22:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:22:50 and if it has a size, it has a bound. 00:22:55 Fine. 00:23:16 Except in this case, you're spanning devices. So the address of a machine might be included. 00:23:16 If the address of your nodes has a bound then sooner or later you will run out of nodes, and you will no longer be able to expand your number. 00:23:34 If you run out of devices onto which you can shove data, you're stuck anyway. 00:23:39 Doesn't really matter, just make it an address pair. Address-of-machine,address-of-data. 00:23:58 Well, no. Address-of-machine, mechanism-of-index-there. 00:24:01 We're assuming that you'll never run out of devices. 00:24:15 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:24:21 Then there's no problem. As soon as you reach the limit of machine addresses, start batching them. 00:24:36 Batching them? As in, do it sequentially? 00:24:52 I'm assuming your data has an innate order of some sort. 00:25:04 ChibaPet: arguably, at the fundamental level there is no limit. Bring it down to the Turing machine, and you'll see it. The Turing machine is defined as having unbounded memory, and it works by making all accesses relative. 00:25:26 That's the key. The addresses are relative. At that point, the unbounded suggestion works. 00:25:41 loke: Yeah, that's one solution. 00:25:47 That's not to say that it is _practical_ in any way shape or form, but that is indeed the way the Turing machine works. 00:25:49 Well. That's for a notional machine. But we're talking about real hardware I assu,e 00:25:53 assume* 00:26:03 We just say that the next node is at an offset of N from the current node. 00:26:27 but what if it was at an offset that was too large to encode into your size_t type? (Give size_t any size) 00:26:28 ChibaPet: for real hardware, you just make all addresses 265-bit and you'll have a larger address space than the number of quarks in the universe. Problem solved. 00:26:35 Hm, but that forces a certain minimum granularity. 00:26:59 loke: Nah, that's the Bill Gates' quote problem again. We should assume that in the future we're all dealing with infinite length numbers. 00:27:22 loke, I guess, but I'm assuming the end result is supposed to have some similarity to a running system. :P 00:28:01 sea4ever: I agree, but in a slightly different way. The problem is not that we run out of storage (that is literally not a problem when the addres sspace is larger than the planck length^3) 00:28:15 The problem is that you have very large holes in the address space. 00:28:27 Make the address space smart. 00:28:35 Don't force a uniform size. 00:28:40 Anyway. I have to go to the office now. Interesting discussion though :-) 00:28:44 Yeah. It turns out that we can solve this by using unary though. The guy that pointed out the turing machine is nice 00:29:38 You need something to say: "end of stream", though. 00:30:40 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.148.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:32:01 -!- __main__ [~main@76-220-16-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:33:34 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:34:04 dextroid [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:38:01 pnq [~nick@ACA2CA35.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 00:40:24 __main__ [~main@76-220-16-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 00:40:31 ISF_ [~ivan@143.106.196.83] has joined #lisp 00:43:17 sea4ever, I might have missed something earlier, but is there a document that describes this system in a bit more detailed? I'm still not sure how this would work in practise, just interested to know more. 00:43:18 -!- dextroid [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:43:26 dextroid [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:43:28 *detail 00:45:10 xharkonnen: We've got some papers on this. 00:45:54 It seems that I shouldn't be talking about the actual implementation until we have some clients though. We have a patent covering this implementation, let me ask about it 00:46:01 Yeah, you might be able to read the patent 00:47:04 You've patented navel-gazing? 00:47:26 navel gazing? 00:47:26 sea4ever, links to any papers? 00:47:50 sogeking99 [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 00:48:17 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:48:57 Ah, here's a paper on the processor architecture that goes with this. This implements the data type in hardware: http://thomaswlynch.com/essays/2010%2010%2006%20Multifold%20Architcture%20Overview.pdf 00:49:12 We've not got any papers on specifically the numbers. 00:49:27 From the small sample of patents I've had the misfortune of reading, I tend to extrapolate that they all contain vagaries and legalise. 00:50:05 -!- borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:50:24 Some of them have vague descriptions of implementation though. Seems that our patent is pending. 00:50:31 I'm not sure, can you view a pending patent? 00:51:00 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A1EAA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:51:23 hey guys, i am trying to grasp this line (dolist (cd *db*) (format t "~{~a:~10t~a~%~}~%" cd))) the 'dolist' goes through every element of the list *db* with the variable 'cd' right? 00:51:41 Why is the ability to execute multiple instructions at once considered novel? 00:51:59 -!- sea4ever [~daniel@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 00:52:11 sea4ever [~daniel@205.214.198.13] has joined #lisp 00:52:11 -!- sea4ever [~daniel@205.214.198.13] has quit [Changing host] 00:52:11 sea4ever [~daniel@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 00:52:17 It's a navel-gazing patent. Don't worry about it. 00:52:18 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2CA35.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:14 ChibaPet: We have a paper on social agression too. It specifically describes people that have nothing but criticism. We call them 'supressor personalities', like the scientologists. http://thomaswlynch.com/component/content/article/44-social-aggression-patterns 00:53:54 Sea4ever, I consider software patents to be aggression. Especially meaningless ones that will serve no purpose but to be thrown like dung at folks with real work someday. 00:54:16 ChibaPet: We're selling this database, you know. 00:54:27 To whom? You said you can't find anyone to buy it. 00:54:41 '~a' prints the list in a more readable format. but what about ~{, i dont get what thats doing 00:54:44 We're working on it now. We've got a couple of people that are interested. 00:55:02 Anyway Chiba, the social agression essay points out that you won't be of any help to me from this point. 00:55:42 -!- sea4ever [~daniel@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Client Quit] 00:55:50 Shucks. 00:55:50 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-126-82.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:55:51 sea4ever [~daniel@205.214.198.13] has joined #lisp 00:55:51 -!- sea4ever [~daniel@205.214.198.13] has quit [Changing host] 00:55:51 sea4ever [~daniel@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has joined #lisp 00:56:57 For some reason I read "We have a patent on social aggression too" 00:57:06 No, that was mine. 00:57:09 >.> 00:57:13 They'll be hearing from my lawyers. 00:58:05 not sure if practical common lisp is going to fast for me 00:58:17 I'll be rooting for this patent to be denied. Sorry. 00:58:25 (Like every other patent.) 00:58:26 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:58:26 *xharkonnen* is shot 00:58:30 sogeking99, go slow with it, and ask questions whenever they come up. 00:59:20 ChibaPet, thanks, could you help me with my last two messages? 00:59:29 Also, you might want the CLHS handy. You can get some answers there. 00:59:37 let me read back 00:59:45 busy elsewhere, so please give me a sec 01:00:05 What's wrong with patents, xharkonnen? They allow small companies to make money 01:00:35 -!- topo [~topo@f053033191.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:00:38 sea4ever, and more small companies to fail. 01:00:43 here: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Front/Contents.htm 01:01:04 you're right with your first question, but you can look up that sort of thing in the hyperspec too 01:01:11 So it's a tool like any other, I think that it does a certain amount of good. You should be rooting for patent reform, because removing it entirely will cause more problems. 01:01:12 you can find details of format as well 01:01:39 For dolist, look at chapter 6, iteration 01:01:53 and you can find dolist in the iteration dictionary 01:02:00 ok thanks i'll look. 01:02:06 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-6-151.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:17 sea4ever, I won't entirely disagree with that. But I don't consider computer programs patent-worthy. 01:02:44 xharkonnen: You know there's a nice proof-of-concept to this. How many small companies have you seen lately that sell software (only sell software) 01:02:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 01:03:01 sea4ever, haven't had my ear to the ground 01:03:02 for format, look at printer -> formatted output 01:03:08 CLHS seems like a great resource, thanks 01:03:26 It'll answer a bunch of little-detail questions. 01:03:31 Well, there are hardly any software companies starting now. That's because their ideas get stolen too easily and released for free. 01:03:56 Software is free now, so there can't be companies selling it. 01:04:11 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:46 There are plenty of companies selling software. 01:04:49 Out here the professors don't do anything without filing for a patent first, they also make you sign NDAs for the most simple things. Patents are very important. 01:04:51 Searching through cliki might be useful as well. http://www.cliki.net/index 01:04:55 Did you miss the whole 'app store' phenomenon? 01:05:09 sea, find a different school 01:05:18 Also, out where? 01:05:33 I'm gonna go home, class is done. :) (Wasn't my class though) 01:05:35 Got to go now 01:05:41 o/ 01:05:43 Have fun 01:06:01 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-127.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:07 -!- sea4ever [~daniel@unaffiliated/sea4ever] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:10:48 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-126-82.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:08 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 01:14:52 -!- rme [rme@696C65D6.F26E1912.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:14:52 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:20:15 -!- xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:24:51 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-134-102.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:25:40 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@pool-108-20-97-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:54 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-qbszuczzrzaxuqcg] has joined #lisp 01:26:29 Oh, "out here" appears to be Barbados. 01:27:27 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:27:43 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-152-102.lns10.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:38:41 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1753] 01:40:11 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@143.106.196.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:41:59 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 01:42:32 hi, is there something for byte like read-char-no-hang for char ? 01:42:56 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 01:45:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:46:11 dextroid_ [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:46:34 anyone know how to use CLSQL and auto-increment a primary key 01:46:47 (as in, not providing it in the make-instance call) 01:48:49 dextroid_: A little googling reveals . 01:49:02 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-qbszuczzrzaxuqcg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:50:55 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has joined #lisp 01:51:39 Cam_ [~i@209.104.229.66] has joined #lisp 01:51:44 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:52:37 cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.126.195] has joined #lisp 01:53:48 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:00:42 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:00:42 -!- dextroid [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:00:43 -!- dextroid_ [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:02:24 dextroid [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:32 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:01 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:03:58 -!- Cam_ [~i@209.104.229.66] has quit [Changing host] 02:03:58 Cam_ [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 02:04:55 dextroid_ [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:05:15 -!- Cam_ is now known as Cam 02:11:35 -!- dextroid_ [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:11:35 -!- dextroid [~dextroid@c-67-188-198-96.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:12:16 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-070.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:14:02 gko [~gko@110-28-177-114.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:14:18 -!- gko [~gko@110-28-177-114.adsl.fetnet.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:14:50 gko [~gko@110-28-177-114.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:13 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@pool-108-20-97-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:37 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 02:18:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124912#1 Is this odd? Am I just being dense? 02:20:14 sykopomp: (safety 0)? 02:20:32 no, this is CCL without any special safety optimizations. 02:23:05 DicDuoDominoeDar [~DicDuoDom@184.99.29.100] has joined #lisp 02:23:23 -!- DicDuoDominoeDar is now known as DaDaDosPrompt 02:23:54 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:24:51 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:25:19 -!- DaDaDosPrompt is now known as MrBusiness 02:28:31 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:31:24 sykopomp: I'm using 1.7, and it signals an error. 02:36:31 I'm trying to get rainbow delimiters with Lispbox, says "Add the following to your dot-emacs/init file". where would that be, exactly...? 02:37:43 loderunner: Probably ~/.emacs 02:38:33 sykopomp: are you sure? a random proclaim could have long-lasting effects. 02:38:35 Bike: I don't have one, just ~/.emacs.d Also, since I'm using lispbox it should presumably be a self-contained emacs 02:38:38 drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:08 pkhuong: looks like some library I'm loading decided to (declaim (optimize (safety 0))) 02:39:30 been through all the directories in the lispbox dir and I don't see any obvious candidates 02:39:32 *sykopomp* fixed the matter by putting (declaim (optimize (safety 1))) at the top of his project's util.lisp :( 02:40:37 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.247] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 02:41:22 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:41:35 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:43:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-axtgqipbhnhpjwis] has joined #lisp 02:44:10 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has quit [Quit: rme] 02:46:22 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.185.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:47:11 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:51:11 _danb_ [~user@203.38.189.126] has joined #lisp 02:51:27 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@pool-108-20-97-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:55:11 joelr [~joelr@216.46.0.94] has joined #lisp 02:56:47 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 02:57:23 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:57:31 topo [~topo@f053045000.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 02:58:54 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 03:01:03 nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.156.236] has joined #lisp 03:04:29 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 03:06:19 hey guys, whats wrong with this code? http://codepad.org/jSOZjZkt says undefined function 'GUESS-MY-NUMBER' 03:08:36 sogeking99: You're missing a variable called guess-my-number, which is used in smaller and bigger as if it existed. 03:09:30 *sykopomp* wonders if it's really saying 'undefined function' 03:09:49 sogeking99: you're also missing an earmuff. 03:10:01 I'd expect it to complain about GUESS-MY-NUMNER, next. 03:10:34 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 03:11:03 oh right i see what i did wrong now 03:11:24 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@55.sub-75-253-43.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:33 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-070.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 03:12:58 -!- sogeking99 [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 03:14:04 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has joined #lisp 03:16:39 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:18:11 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:26 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:19:36 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:19:46 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-168-71.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:27:49 -!- joelr [~joelr@216.46.0.94] has quit [Quit: joelr] 03:27:55 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:28:17 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 03:40:35 Spion_ [~spion@77.29.153.33] has joined #lisp 03:40:54 -!- Spion_ [~spion@77.29.153.33] has quit [Changing host] 03:40:54 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:43:56 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:44:12 Does anyone know how to re-enable .emacs in lispbox? Peter Seibel confirmed it's been disabled, decides to be coy and say you can figure it out yourself after you've become an 'experienced' emacs user. 03:44:36 daniel__ [~daniel@p5B32694C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:03 borkman`` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:45:44 -!- borkman`` is now known as borkman 03:46:25 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5B326CED.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:47:19 seriously, this is the kind of sh!t that allows vii to happen 03:48:12 loderunner: If you're transitioning into doing "real work", you probably want to install emacs/slime/etc normally anyway, right? 03:50:05 Bike: not especially. I just wanted REPL, quicklisp, sane syntax highlighting, no stupid heap limits, and the ability to actually use the libraries. Sadly, this has ruled out everything else, most notably Cusp. 03:51:18 I guess I could install apt-get install emacs and spend the next 48 hours determining how to install slime and quicklisp... 03:52:09 -!- dans [~daniel@92.80.89.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 03:52:22 I don't mean to come off as some self-entitled noob, but I've done NOTHING but fiddle with editors and libraries for the past 5 days 03:52:40 loderunner: Oh, it's pretty simple. You can get quicklisp by downloading and loading a single file into whatever lisp implementation you use (outside of emacs or whatever), and then ql:quickload :quicklisp-slime-helper. 03:53:04 loderunner: But, the problem with .emacs seems to be the --no-init-file option here: https://github.com/andreer/lispbox/blob/master/relocatable-emacs.sh Not being familiar with lispbox, I don't know how to change this. 03:54:00 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:54:12 I suppose that's the only future-proof option, given Seibel's attitude. 03:54:52 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:54:52 loderunner: I wouldn't want to offer support for lispbox if .emacs were enabled. 03:56:15 pkhuong: I was referring to specifically to him hiding the key to re-enabling it. That kind of attitude means he never intended lispbox to be anything more than a toy. You can't even get paranthesis highlighting for christ's sake, have to delete and re-type to see where stuff is 03:56:53 http://www.lispblog.info/lisp-box-in-win98/comment-page-1 03:56:55 I thought lispbox was only designed as a quick thing for learning anyway? 03:57:49 -!- bombshelter13b_ [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 03:58:01 how can you learn if it takes you 30 seconds to sort out the nested () for a very short function? 03:58:19 oh well. what I really want is a cusp that doesn't suck 03:58:33 no intention of emacs hacking 03:58:41 loderunner: exactly. 03:58:56 zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:00 it is meant as a quick introductory tool. 03:59:05 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:59:51 But it could double as a effective tool for anyone not interested in investing hours hacking their editor (absolutely no disrespect to those who are interested) 04:00:00 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@55.sub-75-253-43.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:01:13 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:01:18 guess I'll get started with full emacs, thanks... 04:01:52 Five days. (And GSLL still doesn't work with anything.) 04:04:31 dans [~daniel@92.80.89.31] has joined #lisp 04:05:25 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-axtgqipbhnhpjwis] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:09:35 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-153-103.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Disconnected by services] 04:09:42 gcentaur1 [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 04:11:33 -!- dans [~daniel@92.80.89.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:11:45 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:12:39 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 04:12:51 kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-131-18.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:13:50 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yxpzyvpfmhbgdrqy] has joined #lisp 04:22:39 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:24:02 dans [~daniel@92.80.89.31] has joined #lisp 04:26:00 start [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:14 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yxpzyvpfmhbgdrqy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:26:23 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 04:26:31 -!- start is now known as greatjoojoo 04:28:53 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:47 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bjjqrltzenfjsrfk] has joined #lisp 04:46:27 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: I need my meds... >.<] 04:48:13 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:48:32 -!- morphling [~quassel@84.38.68.108] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 04:48:55 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:49:11 dear lazyweb, if I have three sequences, '("foo") '("foo" "bar) (), is there a utility function lying around that I can use to generate the concatenation of combinations of strings from those three sequences, in the order they appeared, when available? 04:49:36 morphling [~quassel@84.38.68.108] has joined #lisp 04:49:57 So in this example, I would end up with ("foofoo" "foobar") 04:51:52 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has joined #lisp 04:55:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:55:46 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:55:54 dmiles [~dmiles@66-87-12-55.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 04:56:08 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-070.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:56:58 topeak [~topeak@123.114.124.58] has joined #lisp 04:57:17 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has joined #lisp 04:57:41 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:59:11 zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 05:05:13 I've been playing with lispworks CAPI for a while, pretty impressed with it. shame you have to pay so much to use it to actually program something 05:06:08 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-070.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 05:06:18 is there anything for free that comes close? 05:07:03 (CAPI is lispwork's crossplatform GUI library if someone's not familiar with it) 05:08:32 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:09:19 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@66-87-12-55.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 05:14:58 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:01 HG` [~HG@p579F7818.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 05:15:28 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:15:28 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 05:15:45 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7818.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Client Quit] 05:16:58 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:22:20 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:22:57 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:23:33 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:25:08 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:26:48 -!- cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 05:27:50 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:29:56 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has joined #lisp 05:31:44 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 05:33:19 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:33:36 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has joined #lisp 05:34:34 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:37:11 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:37:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-127.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:41:29 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@19.sub-75-203-30.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:42:00 hello. i have a very concrete question. 05:42:01 -!- zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 05:42:16 zvrba: Are you going to ask about rebar? I hate rebar. 05:42:22 i have a file with triples of numbers separated by spaces; one triple per line 05:42:36 what is the simplest file to read all numbers into a single list? 05:42:51 i don't need to preserve the triplet structure, i.e., all triplets can just be sequentiall concatenated 05:42:59 quotemstr: what/who is rebar? 05:43:00 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 05:43:51 zvrba: Rebar is the steel portion of reinforced concrete, and here, a bad joke. Feel free to ignore me. 05:44:14 quotemstr: are you a bot? 05:44:19 zvrba: If it's just that format, you can use the Lisp reader to read all the numbers, then group them into threes. 05:44:30 zvrba: Am I bot? You decide. 05:46:26 quotemstr: lisp reader being "read" ? 05:46:36 zvrba: Yes. 05:46:43 quotemstr: your nick combined with the rebar stuff made you look like a bot ;) 05:46:51 zvrba: I am a bot. 05:47:00 useful bot then. 05:47:14 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 05:49:02 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@19.sub-75-203-30.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:49:18 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@63.sub-75-202-95.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:50:18 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-152-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:52:37 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:01:16 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-029-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 06:02:38 -!- flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:02:40 hi, is there such thing as "read-byte-no-hang" for byte just like 06:02:41 read-char-no-hang for char ? thanks 06:03:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:03:18 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 06:03:25 No. See the hyperspec. 06:06:22 silenius [~silenius@p4FFC94E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:06:31 -!- cmpitg [~cmpitg@113.22.126.195] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 06:07:24 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.65] has joined #lisp 06:09:43 flip214 [~marek@unaffiliated/flip214] has joined #lisp 06:10:16 nefo [~nefo@221.238.99.251] has joined #lisp 06:10:18 -!- nefo [~nefo@221.238.99.251] has quit [Changing host] 06:10:18 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 06:10:50 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 06:11:26 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.245.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:15:55 Zhivago: so how may I do if I want to nonblockingly read from a socket stream ? 06:16:47 Zhivago: using a dedicated thread for reading ? 06:17:00 tsanhwa: In a system dependent fashion. 06:17:23 There may be an option for read-sequence or some-such. 06:17:38 Or, perhaps a thread is required. 06:17:39 for example ? 06:18:13 you mean dependent on lisp implementation? 06:20:04 Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@16.sub-75-225-220.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 06:21:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-71.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:22:50 tsanhwa: take a look at http://common-lisp.net/project/iolib/ 06:23:26 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@63.sub-75-202-95.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:26:02 -!- Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@16.sub-75-225-220.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:27:46 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 06:29:24 flip214: many thanks, I will look at it 06:37:02 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:41:37 17WAADIKR [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has joined #lisp 06:41:37 -!- 17WAADIKR is now known as phryk 06:44:53 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:46:31 flip214: hi 06:47:13 Posterdati: good morning 06:48:57 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 06:51:44 hmmm, (type-of 1e2) gives me single-float ... I'd have hoped for fixnum or something similar. 06:52:57 and (type-of (floor 1e2)) gives me (INTEGER 0 1152921504606846975) [ok], but (type-of (floor 1e28)) is (INTEGER 1152921504606846976), too? 06:53:37 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:54:14 Are bignums strange or is there something I don't understand? (type-of 1213123124124124124154151512141154) (INTEGER 1152921504606846976) 06:54:31 ah, that's the lower limit, right? so it just says "bignum" in SBCL-speak ... 06:56:30 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 06:57:05 -!- _danb_ [~user@203.38.189.126] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 06:58:18 flip214: you could have as well tried (type-of (1+ most-positive-fixnum)) 06:59:37 well, I just thought that I got the same output ... only a second look told me that it's two different answers 07:00:08 flip214: well, (integer x y) is different from (integer z) 07:00:54 hmmm, how about returning a second value with a 'readable' answer? like 'bignum or 'fixnum etc. ... these types are defined (and understood) anyway 07:01:42 probably not worth the effort 07:02:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:02:24 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:03:18 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:04:39 "A friendly answer is never wasted" ;) 07:10:31 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.43.58] has joined #lisp 07:19:57 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 07:19:59 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:22:16 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-23-151.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:22:16 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-23-151.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:22:16 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:22:16 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 07:23:05 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:24:45 vinodh42 [3c36697b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.54.105.123] has joined #lisp 07:25:18 -!- vinodh42 [3c36697b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.54.105.123] has left #lisp 07:25:26 vinodh42 [3c36697b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.54.105.123] has joined #lisp 07:25:36 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:25:36 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:26:45 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:30:58 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:33:09 -!- H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 07:33:35 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:35:10 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-116-223.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:35:28 MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:43:42 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 07:44:41 Is there any way to modify the source lookup paths for a precompiled SBCL (for its own code)? 07:45:37 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:53 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.124.58] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:49:53 akovalen` [~user@95.73.111.23] has joined #lisp 07:50:15 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:50:36 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-029-191.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:50:48 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:51:57 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.102.154] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:52:17 -!- MrBusiness [~DicDuoDom@184.99.29.100] has quit [Quit: MrBusiness] 07:54:12 -!- troydm [~troydm@unaffiliated/troydm] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 07:55:05 H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has joined #lisp 07:55:22 Ralith: I believe one can just redfine the logical hosts, as SBCL references its source by logical pathnames. As to how exactly do this, I'm not sure. 07:56:07 :/ 07:57:16 -!- MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 08:01:33 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:01:54 katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 08:01:54 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 08:01:54 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 08:03:52 macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 08:03:55 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-245-85.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 08:06:39 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp118-210-134-102.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:08:01 good morning everyone 08:08:16 Ralith: http://www.ida.liu.se/imported/cltl/clm/node212.html has some examples describing logical pathname definition 08:10:55 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-152-77.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:11:07 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 08:14:45 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:17:39 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pbdahpbtlkdfjxfy] has joined #lisp 08:18:34 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:4849:43ff:fe49:79bf] has joined #lisp 08:19:25 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:4849:43ff:fe49:79bf] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:20:14 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:4849:43ff:fe49:79bf] has joined #lisp 08:21:19 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011ae3.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:21:59 hi 08:22:21 H4ns: that is strange and confusing and also doesn't tell me much about overriding SBCL's specific ones :/ 08:22:42 guess I need to find out the hostname it uses? 08:22:50 Ralith: did you try overriding them? 08:22:57 I don't know what to override! 08:23:43 Ralith: i missed the beginning of the conversation, sorry. 08:23:54 Ralith: what is it that you want to achieve? 08:24:07 oh 08:24:32 huangjs [~huangjs@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 08:24:50 at the top level, I'm trying to get M-. to work on symbols interned by a prebuilt binary SBCL. 08:25:12 right now it's looking for the dir it was built in, which of course doesn't exist on this system 08:25:42 Ralith: that is an interesting plan, let me check something. 08:25:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 08:26:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:26:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:26:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:27:23 is there a way to disable the package lock check for package CL? 08:28:00 Ralith: well, if the directory does not exist, it is no wonder it fails. Or am I misunderstanding something? 08:28:17 easyE: what makes you think that sbcl uses logical pathnames to reference its sources? 08:28:57 prxq: it is indeed no surprise that it fails. I am wondering if I can make it look in a different directory, short of symlinking. 08:29:01 prxq: the point is: if logical pathnames are used to refer to source files, the logical pathname host could be pointed to an existing directory to make M-. work 08:30:07 ah ok 08:32:19 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 08:33:30 shaggy- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 08:34:51 (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") 08:34:57 _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 08:35:05 hello. how can I run my unit tests automatically when I load project-tests asdf system? seems like I should use perform method, but I'm not sure where to put it or how to declare it 08:35:06 marsell [~marsell@120.20.23.12] has joined #lisp 08:35:31 shaggy-: an :after method on asdf:operate probably 08:35:59 shaggy-: doesn't documentation give any hints? 08:36:07 H4ns: I have a sbcl binary for solaris that doesn't know where its source is, so burps up execpetions containing logical pathnames. 08:36:12 in SBCL, i can do: (declare (disable-package-locks )), but adding more symbols are tedious work, is there a way to disable the package lock for CL? without-package-locks doesn't seems to work here. 08:36:31 easyE: right, i'm seeing this now. 08:36:32 huangjs: why do you want to do that? 08:36:40 MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 08:37:15 Ralith: (setf (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") '(("SRC;**;*.*.*" "/home/hans/sbcl/src/**/*.*"))) works for me 08:37:21 oh sweet 08:37:22 thanks 08:37:32 :D 08:37:41 that probably belongs in docs or a wiki somewhere 08:38:08 H4ns: my SBCL contains two transaltions, you're replacing them by one... 08:38:11 i guess it is not documented because most people just compile sbcl themselves if they have the source. 08:38:19 jdz, code transformation 08:38:34 huangjs: the package lock is there for a reason. If you want to redefine stuff, better use your own package and shadow those symbols. 08:38:46 jdz: yes. it is better to replace only one definition. 08:38:48 huangjs: may I ask - what is your application? 08:38:49 huangjs: what kind of transformation that involves modifying stuff in CL package? 08:39:05 prxq: partial evaluation 08:39:32 huangjs: that's a cool application 08:39:41 jdz: not modifying, but emitting code without modifying the source code 08:40:25 Ralith: in a fresh sbcl instance, look at what (logical-pathname-translations "SYS") tells you - it'd be best to modify these translations to match your installation or make sure that you define paths for contrib/ and output/ too 08:40:35 huangjs: you're clearly modifying something in CL package if you trigger the package lock 08:40:36 jdz I have tried googling for asdf perform but I'm getting various patches to fix some things, not the usage of it in unit tests. and googling for asdf perform unit test gives me completely unrelated results 08:40:56 I have tried putting this in .asd file and I get TEST printed dozen times 08:40:59 (defmethod asdf:perform :around ((o asdf:load-op) (c asdf:cl-source-file)) (print "test")) 08:41:04 jdz: yes, but that's a necessary hack. 08:41:16 shaggy-: have you tried reading the documentation (the pre-google style)? 08:41:30 pre-google style? 08:41:50 huangjs: use shadowing. Like in http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.91.7210 08:41:58 shaggy-: yes, instead of looking for specific key words, just read the [relevant parts of] documentation 08:42:17 prxq: no i only want it locally. seems declare is the way to go 08:42:31 ah ok 08:42:37 but that's dangerous 08:42:40 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 08:42:55 prxq: not if you only do symbolic output 08:42:57 H4ns: wouldn't modifying those translations necessarily entail defining paths for contrib/ and output/ 08:43:00 ? 08:43:02 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:43:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 08:43:04 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 08:43:04 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:43:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:44:24 -!- phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:44:27 huangjs: well, you are triggering the package lock, so I wouldn't be so sure. Anyway - good luck! 08:45:57 jdz I can't find documentation for it, only snippets of code that use it. http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html 08:47:19 shaggy-: you want your tests to run after loading a system, not each source file, right? 08:47:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:48:02 yes 08:49:14 shaggy-: then why do you define the method for asdf:cl-source-file? 08:49:49 because I don't know what I'm doing and I can't find perform's documentation . I found that snippet on google 08:50:34 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:50:53 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:50:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:51:11 shaggy-: learn to read documentation, please. http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#Using-ASDF 08:51:49 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d011ae3.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:52:25 shaggy-: i mean http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html#A-more-involved-example 08:52:27 so I'm suppose to read through all 1000+ lines? because searching for perform doesn't give me what i need 08:52:44 shaggy-: no, you're supposed to learn how to use a tool before using it. 08:52:58 Amyn [~abennama@62.23.212.20] has joined #lisp 08:53:25 yay, I just wrote something useful in LISP. 08:53:40 if it had real documentation rather than scattered examples it would be easier to learn it 08:55:34 zvrba what is it? 08:56:19 kennyd_: functions to read coordinates of a 3d model from a file, quantize them to integers in given range, and write them back to file. 08:56:46 reading was kinda ugly. tagbody+go for looping :P 08:57:08 and printing with princ is verbose, but I didn't want to bother with format yet. 08:57:17 hello Lisp Hackers. I am a new commer and want to use read-line and want to exclude the ^M character I have read the spec and dont know what missing-newline-p does please assist me 08:57:25 (re tagbody: fortunately, i'm not dogmatic about goto :D) 08:58:21 zvrba couldn't use loop? 08:58:38 kennyd_: i strongly dislike loop. i have iterate-macros on agenda, though. 08:58:51 kennyd_: loop is another programming language to learn. no-go. 08:59:11 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:00:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 09:01:36 zvrba: then at least look at iterate ... that's a macro and might save you some time 09:01:54 *flip214* chuckles to himself ... 09:02:42 flip214: I'm unfortunately not paid to use LISP. I just use it at work as a calculator and instead of other scripting languages. I understand tagbody, whereas I'd had to use relatively lot of time to install and learn iterate. 09:03:04 flip214: tagbody did the job quickly and nicely. elegant it is not :) 09:03:17 (ql:quickload "iterate") would do it 09:03:30 ya 09:03:39 that's the easy part ;) 09:03:57 but if you don't like loop, chances are you won't like iterate either (even though it's nicer) 09:04:43 i don't like loop because it pretends to accept a free-form language, but it does not. 09:04:57 -!- MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has left #lisp 09:05:00 uncanny valley, if you will. in between a programming and human language. 09:05:15 zvrba: or it might be that you only think that it pretends to do that 09:05:25 -!- X-Scale [email@89.180.133.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:05:40 jdz: could be. 09:06:06 swilde [~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has joined #lisp 09:06:29 -!- huangjs [~huangjs@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:06:34 zvrba: I still suggest learning iterate ... it'll save you lots of time. 09:06:43 here are a couple of iterate examples. http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Introduction.html#Introduction 09:06:43 flip214: noted. 09:07:02 flip214: as I said, I saw examples of loop and iterate, and I could think of using iterate. 09:07:17 it's just that I had to get the job done right now ;) 09:07:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:07:50 zvrba: http://common-lisp.net/project/iterate/doc/Don_0027t-Loop-Iterate.html#Don_0027t-Loop-Iterate look at "A.3.6 Prog and Go" 09:08:09 I like how you can use normal lisps structures (cond, if etc) in iterate, and then iterate functionality within them, like collect 09:08:12 That's "A.3 Comparisons With Other Iteration Methods" 09:08:23 kennyd_: yes, that's much better than with loop 09:09:26 flip214: ok, i'm converted :) seriously, i'll take a look at it when I get some time. 09:09:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:10:07 hey guys, how to set key for autodoc and autocomplete in slime+emacs+sbcl ? 09:10:29 morphism: how is emacs supposed to know whether you want doc eller completion when you press TAB? 09:11:49 todun [~todun@SEAS359.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 09:11:56 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-89.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 09:12:16 kiuma_ [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 09:13:15 -!- greatjoojoo [~start@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:14:53 -!- kiuma_ [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Client Quit] 09:16:49 zvrba , I know it's from slime 09:16:58 but don't know how to bind it 09:17:10 it's hooked to key 09:18:35 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:19:00 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:20:15 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 09:21:27 really like to make my emacs + sbcl + slime to be smt like the lispbox =.= 09:21:39 please help if anyone has experience about this 09:23:36 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 09:25:09 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:26:10 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:29:05 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-37.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 09:29:28 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 09:29:28 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 09:29:28 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 09:34:44 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 09:34:56 X-Scale [email@89-180-211-79.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 09:35:40 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest41075 09:36:12 morphism: isnt lispbox available as source? you can look there... 09:36:57 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:38:38 -!- Guest41075 is now known as X-Scale 09:40:01 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:42:27 a 09:42:38 gensym`, I figured out lisp completion 09:42:47 is what I want 09:43:44 you can invoke it with C-c Tab in the sourcefile 09:44:44 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:45:14 when editing a file ? 09:45:31 can I make it default when startup like in the interactive mode ? 09:47:34 dont know - some guys from clojure wrote a nice code-completion for emacs like in eclipse/idea/... - but I cant remember the name :( 09:50:19 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:51:07 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 09:54:41 now, most of my time is working w/ the REPL 09:55:03 then copy all those working code into a src file =.= 09:59:02 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 10:00:52 morphism: don't do that. 10:01:34 bozhidar [~user@84.40.101.143] has joined #lisp 10:04:46 morphism: that sounds tedious :-| 10:06:12 -!- martisj [~martin@14-201-64-38.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: martisj] 10:06:32 that sounds backwards 10:09:04 -!- bozhidar [~user@84.40.101.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 10:09:26 autocomplete-mode always crashed my emacs but it showed both completions and the doc. it was nice 10:13:20 aerique, hey 10:13:21 :P 10:13:36 it's fine, I just use lisp-completion-mode 10:13:54 Have just said goodbye to Lispbox and come to my own one 10:14:13 Xach, show me another good way to do so =.= 10:14:20 What you need is a Lispurse. 10:14:41 btw, when C - c / C - v isn't for copy/paste, how to do ? 10:14:47 Zhivago ? 10:15:16 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:16:14 morphism: have you tried C-h t? 10:19:25 not yet 10:21:15 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:23:19 SLIME *has* completion o.O 10:27:52 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:28:18 morphism: write it in a file and use C-c C-c or C-x C-e 10:28:47 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 10:29:26 Call functions in the repl, but don't define them there. 10:30:24 =.=! Why not ? 10:30:34 -!- H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:31:05 -!- todun [~todun@SEAS359.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: :s] 10:31:18 morphism: It's hard to properly format in the repl. Things written into the repl are not preserved as source, generally. 10:31:41 morphism: you should really check out some Slime screencasts 10:31:59 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:32:31 morphism: automatic highlighting problematic forms does not work in the repl. 10:32:43 morphism: The usual cycle is: write your functions in the sourcefile, C-c them and test them in the repl... 10:32:58 That is the usual cycle. 10:33:04 Xach, I just need auto-doc or lisp-completion-mode is enough . 10:35:02 my Cycle is... Test everything in REPL , until everything is fine, then choose best made functions >> src file. Maybe that's because I wasted most of time inside REPL 10:35:08 What a delightfully unique snowflake you are. 10:35:13 -!- macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:35:18 Have fun! 10:35:19 morphism: I made a screencast for a participant in the google ai challenge that might be helpful (it's my first one and the audio is bad though): http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xNsaZSFCEPQ 10:36:30 Xach, thanks :) 10:36:41 H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has joined #lisp 10:37:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.226.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 10:38:24 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.220.68] has joined #lisp 10:39:29 aerique, hey I set the socket buffer to almost 5 mb to make sure every data size could be fit. But , is that too much ? 10:40:35 morphism: are you talking about the starcraft proxybot now? 10:40:47 yep 10:40:49 :d 10:41:04 -!- Amyn [~abennama@62.23.212.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:41:29 morphism: whatever works for you. like i said: it's been so long since i worked on it, i don't know the details 10:42:03 are you going to attend google-ai challenge ? 10:42:48 morphism: not sure, there's a lot of things coming together in the near future for me 10:44:52 :P 10:47:19 is your job related to A.I. ? 10:47:45 i wish 10:48:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 10:50:32 oudeis [~oudeis@109.65.206.224] has joined #lisp 10:54:38 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:05:40 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:05:44 -!- daimrod_ [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06:15 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:07:11 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-017-026.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 11:07:46 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:07:59 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:12:09 pnq [~nick@AC81DA07.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:13:43 todun [~todun@SEAS359.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 11:17:50 daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 11:18:41 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.65.206.224] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:20:48 -!- H4ns [431741ca@gateway/web/freenode/ip.67.23.65.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:21:49 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 11:24:00 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 11:25:20 joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has joined #lisp 11:26:36 bozhidar [~user@84.40.101.143] has joined #lisp 11:26:42 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:30:33 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 11:30:38 macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has joined #lisp 11:32:00 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:32:37 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-bjjqrltzenfjsrfk] has left #lisp 11:37:34 format "~:D" doesn't obey locale? 11:38:19 #. inserts a single element ... is there something like ,@ for the reader? google doesn't help with this characters 11:38:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:39:42 guess I'll have to wrap the form above and build the form as needed ... 11:40:30 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:42:55 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:43:11 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:45:53 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-89-119.vodafone.hu] has joined #lisp 11:45:58 -!- gko [~gko@110-28-177-114.adsl.fetnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 11:45:59 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@apn-94-44-89-119.vodafone.hu] has quit [Changing host] 11:45:59 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 11:47:59 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@2.149.154.167.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 11:53:06 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 11:53:31 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 11:53:36 fartofagony [fartofagon@c-346ee155.227-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 11:53:49 hi guys 11:54:01 a question: 11:54:16 why do people still want to learn lisp? 11:54:45 benefitaly, why is it good? 11:54:46 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 11:55:11 Because some people think it's the best language so far invented. 11:55:14 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 11:55:16 in short, it's fast and nice to write 11:55:16 xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:02 isnt it really old? i would love to learn it but i thought there were more "powerful" languages out there 11:56:40 have been trying to find courses for lisp in sweden but there are non 11:56:51 depends on what you want to do. Most newer languages are high-test, sure, but they aren't as general purpose as lisp is 11:57:06 that gave me the thought: oh maybe its useless in some ways 11:57:15 C is decently old as well (not quite as old), but it's still around 11:57:27 nice 11:57:55 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:57:57 what do you create with lisp these days? this generation 11:58:20 I recommend emacs and the slime package 11:58:30 most lispers will recommend at least the first 11:58:31 martisj [~martin@14-201-64-38.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 11:59:20 thanks 11:59:25 regarding courses, depending on your system the lisp packages may also include a learning lisp file 11:59:34 if not, this is pretty good http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 11:59:43 no problem 11:59:45 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #lisp 12:00:09 fartofagony, Franz Inc also has some free training materials (video lectures), or so I've been told. 12:00:29 oh thank you so much checking it right way! it really fascinated me 12:00:54 -!- macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:00:59 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:01:00 what system are you on, out of curiosity? 12:01:18 macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has joined #lisp 12:01:29 windows n my main 12:01:34 (this one) 12:01:39 and gentoo on my netbook 12:01:46 :D gentoo 12:01:51 haha, on a netbook 12:02:06 sounds masochistic 12:02:16 is that bad? :D 12:02:29 it's...unexpected 12:03:11 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:03:25 i take it as a compliment! expected = boring! 12:03:34 haha 12:03:40 how do you deal with compile times for that? 12:03:47 things like xorg must have taken days... 12:03:50 Let us speak no more of it. 12:04:49 anyway, suffice it to say that you'll definitely find the packages you need for gentoo 12:05:01 *frozencemetery* is not sure about pretty much anything relating to windows 12:06:15 perfeect! 12:07:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:08:13 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:08:18 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 12:08:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 12:08:36 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:08:56 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:09:17 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 12:09:19 -!- martisj [~martin@14-201-64-38.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Quit: martisj] 12:10:17 I'm having a brain freeze, I think ... I've got a variable with field names, and want to use that to generate code lines ... 12:10:45 now I can surely iterate over that variable, but #. will always return a CONS - whereas (progn) etc. want an expanded list 12:10:54 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:11:09 ie. I'm getting things like (progn ((f ...) (f...) (f...))) which is invalid 12:11:14 a hint, pleasE? 12:11:15 guest_8293 [~user@131.Red-79-156-157.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:31 flip214: what are you trying to do? 12:11:54 hi 12:12:00 > I've got a variable with field names, and want to use that to generate code lines ... 12:12:20 flip214: that does not make much sense at all 12:12:25 via reader expansion #. ... 12:12:35 flip214: copypasting when asked for clarification does not earn you any points. 12:12:49 reader macros are run at read-time 12:12:57 sorry, but it's hard for me to know what I can't explain ;) 12:13:02 jdz: of course, that's fine 12:13:11 you can generally assume that a copypaste is unhelpful 12:13:14 I've got a constant list of field names and conversions ... 12:13:27 and want to generate code lines 12:13:30 flip214: why instead of failing to state your problem you just use lisppaste to paste the problematic code? 12:13:33 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 12:13:48 flip214: i'm pretty sure you don't want to generate code _lines_ 12:14:01 flip214: what does the input look like? what does the output look like? 12:15:58 Just wondering how can I get the filename of the source file beign processed in clisp ? 12:16:22 I can get the args as a list with ext:*args* ... but the argv[0] (a la C) isn't present 12:16:25 guest_8293: depends on how it's being processed. 12:17:13 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:17:30 guest_8293: (aref (ext:argv) 0) will give you an equivalent. 12:17:46 but not quite what you're looking for, either. 12:18:11 cl:*load-truename* might do it for you. 12:18:27 OK, I'll try, thanks 12:18:33 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81DA07.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:28 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:41 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 12:20:07 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.165.68] has joined #lisp 12:20:07 never mind, think I got it 12:21:44 flip214: it seems quite likely that you're misusing #. 12:23:42 -!- p_l|backup is now known as p_l|travel 12:23:54 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 12:23:57 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 12:24:48 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 12:26:18 Ralith: what would you qualify as "misusing"? 12:26:45 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 12:27:35 It's about things like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124918 12:28:56 it looks like you want to use a macro there. 12:29:14 A macrolet would work nicely there. And you have too many 's. 12:29:19 -!- p_l|travel is now known as p_l|flying 12:29:34 I also suspect that your greater purpose could be better served by using an existing abstraction 12:30:02 is there a use-package equivalent that will automatically shadow any conflicted symbols? 12:30:16 Xach: yes, the innermost ' are already removed in my code ... 12:30:28 how about the macrolet? would you paste an example? 12:31:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:32:15 flip214: if you tell us what you're actually trying to accomplish, we can offer better advice. 12:34:57 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:35:08 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:35:14 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-116-223.lns20.bne4.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:37:34 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:38:25 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:39:11 I'm parsing data and want to accumulate some statistics ... so there are identical operations to be done for a range of fields. 12:39:35 Of course, I could use an alist instead of a struct, and always iterate over all "fields" ... but that would be somewhat slower 12:39:58 -!- todun [~todun@SEAS359.wlan.seas.upenn.edu] has quit [Quit: :s] 12:40:01 the fields are fixed, so why not interpolate at compile time? Plenty of other examples for that ... 12:40:56 -!- macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 12:41:08 macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has joined #lisp 12:41:23 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:41:25 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:42:37 flip214: that is what macros are for. 12:43:05 flip214: it looks like you're trying to make a crappy reimplementation of a small part of CLOS. 12:43:33 (not that your code is crappy per se) 12:44:07 Many thanks Xach it works ! http://paste.lisp.org/display/124920 ! 12:44:13 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:45:36 guest_8293: that is a very strange thing to do 12:45:58 at the end of my source code ... if main function is compiled execute it 12:46:00 guest_8293: see the standard function compile-file-pathname. 12:46:17 guest_8293: also see the return value of compile-file 12:46:34 guest_8293: I think you misunderstand the meaning of 'compiled' in that context. 12:47:02 do we still have a clhs bot in here 12:47:16 BrokenCog [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 12:47:36 I am a clhs bot 12:48:07 your CPU time is more valuable than appropriate for fetching URLs on a whim 12:49:27 OK, compile-file gives you as output value output-truename 12:49:37 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:49:41 there's no need to perform the regex-replace 12:49:48 Ralith: of course I could use CLOS, and reflection, etc. ... but this sounded _more_ verbose to me than just expanding at read time 12:49:50 -!- BrokenCog [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 12:50:11 flip214: why read-time instead of macroexpansion-time? 12:50:12 especially as the code itself doesn't have to know about its fields - there's just the _right_ code 12:50:26 flip214: who said anything about reflection? 12:50:28 jdz: where do you see the big difference? 12:50:57 -!- macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:50:58 flip214: i have not seen your code yet, so i don't see anything. just asking. 12:50:59 Ralith: please explain what small part of CLOS you mean ... 12:51:31 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 12:51:38 jdz: where do you see the difference between read-time and macroexpansion-time, for things like these expansions? 12:51:56 superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has joined #lisp 12:52:04 flip214: you mean http://paste.lisp.org/display/124918? 12:52:06 flip214: for starters, I don't think your variable is guaranteed to be defined at read-time. 12:52:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124921 <- two questions. one is it a good idea to load something like this in my .clisp, .sbclrc etc? and two how to automatically shadow all the symbols instead of being asked every time I start repl? 12:52:28 Ralith: it is guaranteed to not be defined at read time 12:52:29 concave [~concave@c-24-118-48-38.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:52:32 okay then 12:52:38 nonetheless, I'd use a macro 12:52:46 well no 12:52:58 I'd use a CLOS class and a generic function 12:53:49 or I might; it's hard to guess based on so little 12:54:14 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:54:23 shaggy-: quickload's first argument can be a list, e.g. (ql:quickload '("foo" "bar") ...) 12:54:39 ooh 12:54:40 handy 12:54:44 thanks. btw i have no idea why I made that a macro heh 12:54:53 shaggy-: and not all system names correspond to package names 12:54:56 So you didn't have to type ' I suppose. 12:55:06 shaggy-: I don't think it's a good idea in general. 12:55:46 Xach why? and what's the alternative? I would like to have some packages loaded every time I start repl, since I end up loading them manually most of the time 12:56:13 packages=systems 12:56:18 not 12:56:26 shaggy-: autoloading stuff is up to you; auto-shadowing stuff is highly questionable. 12:57:45 Ralith well if I don't I get asked to resolve conflicts every time I run the repl 12:58:14 shaggy-: you should not ask "how do I make the error stop annoying me." You should ask "why is there an error." 12:58:50 shaggy:getenv conflicts with ext:getenv automatically imported into user package by clisp 12:59:19 why have you interned that symbol? 12:59:26 and exported, at that 12:59:37 so that I can portably use getenv 12:59:50 across various implementions 13:00:16 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:00:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:01:04 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124922 fetched it from some page. and a couple of other functions too 13:01:51 so how to resolve this, if not by shadowing? 13:02:08 shaggy-: Don't use-package things. 13:02:20 BrokenCog [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:23 superflit_ [~superflit@174-16-42-206.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:02:27 what should I use? 13:02:42 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-108-191.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 13:03:06 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-222-174.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:03:06 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 13:03:38 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:05:00 What do you want to do? 13:05:47 i want to load those packages and intern their symbols automatically every time i start repl 13:06:01 What are you really trying to do? 13:06:05 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:06:19 that's it 13:06:32 shaggy-: you probably want to define a package named "SHAGGY-PLAYGROUND" 13:06:32 Why? 13:06:36 topeak [~topeak@117.79.232.232] has joined #lisp 13:06:38 I don't want to type (ql:quickload '(shaggy iterate ..))) every time I start a new repl 13:07:04 shaggy-: Ok, to do that, you can put that in your init file. 13:07:18 That doesn't have anything to do with use-package. 13:07:35 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:07:37 -!- topeak [~topeak@117.79.232.232] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:07:57 i want them interned too. should I create a new package like jdz suggest. i guess it's not a bad idea 13:08:14 shaggy-: Why do you want them available in cl-user without package prefixes? 13:08:15 topeak [~topeak@117.79.232.232] has joined #lisp 13:08:30 Normally you wouldn't write much code in the cl-user package. 13:08:36 so i have less to type 13:08:49 Do you write programs in the cl-user package? 13:08:57 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 13:09:55 no each one has it's separate package. but I want some packages available all the time if I quickly want to test something. without the package prefix. it's just a preference 13:11:21 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 13:11:34 shaggy-: you can avoid conflicts by using things like SHADOW or SHADOWING-IMPORT before USE-PACAKGE. 13:11:40 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:16:28 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:29 ramusar__ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:29 ramusara_ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 ramus____ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:30 ramusa___ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:31 ramu_____ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:16:42 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 13:16:42 great. but having some trouble now (must be doing something wrong) 13:16:46 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:17:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D70A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:17:14 -!- ramus____ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:18 -!- ramusa___ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:24 -!- ramusara_ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:34 -!- ramu_____ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 13:17:51 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124924 13:17:55 -!- silenius [~silenius@p4FFC94E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:18:00 sogeking99 [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 13:18:06 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Client Quit] 13:19:13 shaggy-: #:foo is not a self-evaluating object. 13:19:16 using :iterate instead of #:iterate worked, not sure why but I'll take it 13:19:36 You'd have to use '#:foo if you want to use it for its name. 13:19:43 In a context where it's evaluated, that is. 13:19:51 hey guys, after much messing around on the REPL i finally get this line ' (format t "~{~a:~10t~a~%~}~%" cd)))' but can i add spaces to make it more readable for me? 13:19:58 ah I see. I used '(#:iterate) before, that's why it worked 13:20:06 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:20:16 sogeking99: add spaces to the control string? 13:20:23 like (format t "~{~a: ~10t~a ~%~} ~%" cd))) 13:20:37 or will that mess it up? 13:20:55 sogeking99: It will affect how the output appears. It's up to you to decide if it's messed up or not. 13:21:42 sogeking99, one useful point to remember as you work through this stuff - you're not working on class 1 medical equipment as you learn, so the consequences of doing something wrong are minimal. Feel free to intentionally break things to see what happens, now and then. 13:22:20 true enough, thanks. 13:22:43 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: work now] 13:23:15 sogeking99: I like to use ~ to break up long control strings sometimes, but it's not as easy to put ignored horizontal whitespace into the control string. 13:24:07 oh right 13:25:24 is the python interactive mode the same thing as REPL, or are they actually different? 13:26:47 sogeking99: it's kind of like a repl. 13:28:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.185] has quit [Quit: Offline] 13:28:32 oh so the process is actually different 13:29:43 sogeking99: there is nothing fundamentally different. 13:31:03 oh ok, thanks 13:31:22 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 13:31:33 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 13:31:47 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 13:32:53 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:34:19 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 13:36:06 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.125.36] has joined #lisp 13:38:37 Xof: coming to ECLM after all? 13:39:26 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:42:17 *Xach* realizes that ECLM will have approximately 2x the ILC turnout 13:42:25 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.23.12] has quit [Quit: marsell] 13:42:53 Where and when will it be? Can you link it? 13:44:04 Ah, it's on your blog. Got it. 13:44:20 Amsterdam, out of my range at the moment. :) 13:45:14 amsterdam will be full then, anyway. 13:45:22 it's the same weekend as some big electronic music festival 13:45:28 if you're not in already you can't fit! 13:45:28 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 13:45:35 heh 13:45:45 Xach: it is? do you have a link? 13:45:55 http://xach.livejournal.com/293050.html 13:46:05 Google led me there, conveniently. 13:47:57 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 13:48:44 *easyE* really needs to find space to stay in Amsterdam. 13:51:30 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 13:52:03 H4ns: http://www.amsterdam-dance-event.nl/ 13:52:12 Xach: ah, thanks! 13:52:22 sort of an...amsterdance, if you will 13:52:51 uh. seems to be more dance than electronic 13:55:05 so 100 lispers and 100,000 dancers will compete for amsterdam's resources 13:55:06 MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 13:55:16 *Xach* knows who will win 13:55:48 the lispers, of course! 13:55:58 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 13:56:15 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-89.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:57:06 How can I remove the charecters ^M when using read-line 13:57:52 re eclm: if you really can't find anything in amsterdam check some cities nearby (<20km). public transport is pretty good out here 13:58:07 -!- sogeking99 [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:58:09 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.59] has joined #lisp 14:01:00 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:01:24 -!- vinodh42 [3c36697b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.60.54.105.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:02:31 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-108-191.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:03:18 MrMc: use the right external format 14:03:43 MrMc: flexi-streams has good handling for line endings, but maybe your implementation supports it out of the box. 14:04:40 MrMc: if you're too lazy to do it right, you can always use (subseq string 0 (1- (length string))) or something in the lines of that 14:05:21 I am using utf-8 i have üäö and Friends 14:05:29 MrMc: so? 14:05:39 MrMc: one more reason to use the right external format :) 14:05:41 Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@75-138-73-64.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:06:00 MrMc: which implementation are you using? 14:06:05 I mean I am using utf-8 when opening 14:06:17 CCL 14:06:39 CCL on windows 7 14:06:51 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-108-191.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:14 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 14:07:14 MrMc: http://ccl.clozure.com/manual/chapter4.5.html 14:09:36 -!- concave [~concave@c-24-118-48-38.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [] 14:10:29 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-eahswnhtyzecfjxb] has joined #lisp 14:10:30 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-108-191.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:11:49 markskil1eck [~mark@host86-136-238-48.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:44 anddam [~anddam@151.70.80.242] has joined #lisp 14:12:56 hello 14:13:54 hello 14:15:05 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.207.53] has joined #lisp 14:15:18 Thanks H4ns I am Reading the manual thanks 14:15:41 MrMc: i did not mean to be rude, it should be right there. 14:16:01 it is 14:17:55 dhkl [~dhkl@li178-144.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:23 H4ns:No offence I just could not see where to star 14:18:25 t 14:18:38 replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:18:57 ehu` [~ehuels@109.32.204.175] has joined #lisp 14:19:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.207.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:19:51 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:21:41 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:22:13 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has joined #lisp 14:25:51 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:26:41 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.220.68] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 14:27:00 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 14:28:46 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@195.22.80.141] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 14:29:46 rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has joined #lisp 14:31:10 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:32:20 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:38 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.32.204.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:34:13 todun [~todun@seas704.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has joined #lisp 14:35:29 macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has joined #lisp 14:36:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:37:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 14:37:49 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:38:24 -!- todun [~todun@seas704.wireless-pennnet.upenn.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:36 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 14:39:49 -!- jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:45:28 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:47:23 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 14:47:41 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:48:40 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:45 urandom__ [~user@p548A4930.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:49:01 -!- Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@75-138-73-64.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:50:13 -!- X-Scale [email@89-180-211-79.net.novis.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:50:14 I'm having trouble with loading trivial-http via quicklisp 14:50:30 schaueho: what's up? 14:50:39 it keeps complaining about missing trivial-sockets 14:51:20 afaiu, trivial-http in quicklisp should use usocket instead, right? 14:51:46 X-Scale [email@89-180-211-79.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 14:51:50 schaueho: maybe. what CL implementation? 14:51:56 sbcl 14:51:56 -!- guest_8293 [~user@131.Red-79-156-157.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:52:07 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:09 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest61034 14:52:22 schaueho: yes, it should. are you sure you're loading quicklisp's version of trivial-http? (asdf:system-source-directory "trivial-http") returns what you expect? 14:53:01 no 14:53:14 it's referring to an old local version, which is exactly what I suspected 14:53:21 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 14:53:55 i think if you remove it, you will be all set. 14:54:23 X-Scale` [email@89.180.152.233] has joined #lisp 14:55:35 yes 14:55:49 -!- Guest61034 [email@89-180-211-79.net.novis.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:56:03 I though moving the link to the old .asd file out of the way should be enough, but apparently it isn't 14:56:04 thx 14:56:26 (asdf:clear-system "trivial-http") might be required. 14:57:02 silenius [~silenius@p4FFC94E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:20 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:00:32 -!- X-Scale` is now known as X-Scale 15:02:00 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:05:06 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:05:44 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 15:05:56 -!- silenius [~silenius@p4FFC94E2.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:06:45 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 15:07:08 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 15:08:02 What is your opinion on (over)using MOP? In a nutshell, I'm facing a choice between either creating a macro that expands into a DEFCLASS form with some magic initialisation and generated accessor methods, or, to create a metclass that hides all of that and makes it look more like a normal class 15:08:50 What kind of magic initialization and accessors? 15:09:17 loke: do you expect subclassing/how will the macro-ed up classes play with subclassing? 15:10:12 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-20-102.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 15:10:37 Well, it's for my CL-GDATA. Basically, I have a class that encapsulates a mote of the stuff that comes in an Atom element. I was thinking of creating a metaclass that allows me to declare something like this: (defclass google-contact () ((email :atom-field "...")) (:metaclass atom-class)) 15:11:15 If I do it with a macro, the macro will have to generate an INITIALIZE-INSTANCE method that extracts the information from the DOM node 15:11:15 loke: What solution best expresses your intention to the reader of your code (which could be you in a few months)? 15:11:26 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:12:00 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:12:00 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:12:22 spacebat: neither does it perfectly. The metaclass solution will look pretty when you look at the defclass, but the MOP-stuff will (as always) be messy. 15:12:56 But I feel having a macro generate both a defclass and the initialisers as well as accessors and all kind of magic will be even worse 15:13:40 I've seen people have general opinions against the use of MOP unless it's really required, so I was hoping to hear some of those arguments. I fear that I might be overengineering this stuff 15:13:53 macros generating accessors? wut? 15:13:57 MOP is very neat though, but I worry I like it too much :-) 15:14:02 Then you could look at it from the other side and think of which of the interfaces you would want to use. 15:14:34 I built an OR-mapping library using MOP just because I could. And it was awesome :-) 15:14:50 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:15:09 If you liked the interface it was a good job i think. 15:15:20 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.125.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:15:27 I'm a MOP refusenik, but I also dislike users ;) 15:16:02 Opinions and beliefs are just a guide to good interfaces and not hard rules. 15:16:31 the users of my library wouldn't see the MOP though. this is to help in the implementation of the library 15:16:56 I'd go with a macro because it's simpler for me, then. 15:17:17 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has left #lisp 15:17:24 use whatever you like then. nobody cares about what they can't see. 15:17:45 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 15:17:55 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:18:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:20:02 A CLOSE question though... 15:20:20 If class B inherits from A, can A and B have different metaclasses? 15:20:33 yes, but hairy. 15:20:39 In particular, can A be of STANDARD-CLASS and B be of FOO-CLASS? 15:20:50 OK 15:21:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:22:49 ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has joined #lisp 15:23:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:23:50 leyyer_su [~user@222.212.74.8] has joined #lisp 15:28:27 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:29:07 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:29:28 HG` [~HG@p579F7818.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:32:32 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:32:47 -!- ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:32:48 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33:15 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 15:35:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.165.68] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:35:51 -!- hyoyoung [~morris@210.117.152.122] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:36:43 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:07 *Xach* just got an email spam asking to do someone's lisp & prolog homework for "30" 15:37:14 morris [~morris@210.117.152.122] has joined #lisp 15:37:19 30 what? camels? 15:37:23 Good question. 15:37:25 -!- macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:37:30 30 year olds ? 15:37:57 30 dollars ? 15:38:10 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 15:38:40 Xach, virgins? 15:39:34 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 15:39:37 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:39:48 *Xach* reported it to the instructor tragically unclarified 15:39:52 maybe they're just trying to say it would only take 30 seconds 15:41:32 antifuchs: you, too? 15:41:42 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 15:41:42 Xach: indeed 15:41:55 their site offers lisp assignment help 15:42:06 I can tell them the difference between setq and setf! 15:42:13 (maybe that would help) 15:42:29 maybe we can compete, not on magnitude, but on unit 15:42:31 it's very telling that they're not offering haskell assignment help (: 15:42:41 that would be fun, I'm sure (: 15:42:56 antifuchs: "setf!" ? is that from a CL-in-scheme FFI pacjage? 15:43:28 (loop ... if (something) (do-this) (and-this)) <- how to execute do-this and-this only if something is true? 15:43:30 Xach: he says he can "pay very good" 15:43:33 ahahaha 15:43:40 I was offered 30! 15:43:40 shaggy-: when 15:43:49 i was offered 30 too 15:43:50 when (something) do ... 15:43:56 thanks 15:43:56 30 kg of gold, i guess 15:43:58 *pkhuong* checks his spam folder 15:44:16 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:44:46 Clearly it's for a license to a patent covering the quantity "30" and applications of that novel concept. 15:44:47 fr31s [~user@131.Red-79-156-157.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:44:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:45:10 ChibaPet: 30 is too bounded a value for patents. 15:45:58 -!- anddam [~anddam@151.70.80.242] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:48 "Method and apparatus for applying an unbounded integer value as an incentive to produce a positive feedback loop by an opposing actor in a student-teacher relationship" 15:49:31 I'm willing to license my technology 15:49:35 anyway. I'm guessing they won't be around for very long (: 15:51:04 I actually talked to the guy on the live chat at their crappy web site, offered to take me off their mailing list 15:52:11 I didn't make a counter offer for taking them off the internet 15:52:58 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:17 MrUnagi [~mrunagi@82.sub-75-253-74.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 15:53:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:54:00 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 15:54:07 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 15:54:10 homunculus89 [5ac58a4e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.197.138.78] has joined #lisp 15:54:27 antifuchs: heh, what's the website? 15:54:27 hey guys, is common lisp good for making roguelikes? 15:54:42 (I don't think they would have taken me up on the offer anyway) 15:54:50 homunculus89: some people seem to think so (: 15:54:58 (ask dto, he's made a couple of games with lisp!) 15:54:58 There's http://dto.github.com/notebook/rlx.html 15:55:13 there was also something like langband 15:55:15 That's three people in the last few days asking about roguelikes in Lisp... 15:55:18 *Xach* has deja vu 15:56:26 i think people are interested in them again :) 15:56:37 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:57:29 -!- MrUnagi [~mrunagi@82.sub-75-253-74.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:29 are any open source, so i can get an idea what it should look like? 15:58:03 homunculus89, I'd pointed you at one in Emacs yesterday I think. 15:58:25 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 15:58:26 http://langband.sourceforge.net/download.html apparently 15:58:32 Also, remember that #lispgames exists. 15:58:37 don't think i've been on #lis before 15:58:50 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:59:02 Ah, I think it was someone talking about roguelikes the other day who had a nick with trailing digits. 15:59:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:59:50 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 15:59:59 ok i will try there also :) 16:00:13 beginnerman, sgt-hagger, sogeking99 at least in the past few days 16:00:27 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 16:01:11 *Xach* wonders about the market for subscription common lisp roguelike dev screencasts 16:01:19 -!- leyyer_su [~user@222.212.74.8] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:20 heh 16:02:10 could be games like dungeons of dredmor has made them more popular again? 16:02:33 Anyway, the essential and correct answer to "is Common Lisp good for foo" is "yes". It's a general-purpose language that's excellent at creating domain-specific languages. 16:03:08 I suspect device drivers would be an exception, given that you don't want to carry around a compiler and GC baggage in very low-level cases. 16:04:07 oh ok thanks ChibaPet 16:04:32 And note that Bike's link to http://langband.sourceforge.net/index.html was for you - an example application. 16:04:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:05:02 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:17 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:05:43 oh sorry Bike i missed that 16:07:43 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:08:37 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D70A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:09:40 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:13:18 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:13:43 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: going back home...] 16:14:19 -!- MrMc [~kadzinga@port-92-198-52-210.static.qsc.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:45 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:16:10 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 16:17:04 BlankVerse [~pankajm@103.246.106.35] has joined #lisp 16:17:30 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 16:19:49 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D70A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:01 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:22:27 macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has joined #lisp 16:24:28 -!- bozhidar [~user@84.40.101.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:24:40 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:26:50 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-070.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 16:27:48 morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has joined #lisp 16:28:09 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-017-026.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:29:03 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:29:33 From "Lisp and computing" post, Google translate from Russian: "So I would like to try anything to piss in that language." 16:29:48 What a country! 16:30:01 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has left #lisp 16:30:25 -!- fr31s [~user@131.Red-79-156-157.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:30:39 and: "Look quicklisp. There's not dead." 16:30:55 kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has joined #lisp 16:31:53 URL? 16:32:02 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:32:05 http://www.linux.org.ru/view-message.jsp?msgid=6710107&page=0&filter=anonymous 16:32:06 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has left #lisp 16:32:28 I do not agree with this: "Numerical calculations - not the best use case for the CL." 16:35:11 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:39:10 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:40:21 Xach: 16:40:25 "The easiest way to install Vecto and all its dependencies is with ASDF-Install." o.O 16:40:30 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:40:43 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:40:49 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:41:01 *Xach* must update, sure 16:41:03 he's just being modest. 16:41:11 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-20-102.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:12 holycopralite1 [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 maybe add a suggestion to install asdf-instal with quicklisp? 16:42:10 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-12-55.pools.spcsdns.net] has joined #lisp 16:42:57 "" -_- 16:43:10 It may be either piss or write depending on emphasis. 16:43:15 dmiles [~dmiles@72.19.54.151] has joined #lisp 16:43:18 He obviously meant write. 16:43:34 Google knows nothing of such subtleties. 16:44:16 The mind boggles at how such double meaning could have arisen in a language. 16:44:35 ` != `. 16:44:55 German "treffen" OTOH ;) 16:45:02 And a few other words. 16:45:26 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 16:45:37 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.156.236] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:46:50 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@66-87-12-55.pools.spcsdns.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:47:03 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:47:44 Anyway LOR is the best place to get all wrong ideas about any given piece of software. 16:47:54 -!- holycopralite1 [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:49:07 swedish: Sex 16:49:20 means "Sex" or "Six". Hallarity ensues 16:49:24 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 16:49:53 *Xach* is reminded of the difference between a swedish and german "ficklexikon" 16:50:04 In school, when the kids were divided into groups for some activity. Group-6 was always hillarious 16:50:30 Or Swedish "fart" meaning "speed" 16:50:34 max-fart 16:51:42 loke: in norwegian too 16:51:44 -!- homunculus89 [5ac58a4e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.197.138.78] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 16:51:51 also, "i fart" = "in motion" 16:53:58 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 16:53:58 :-) 16:54:01 anyway sleep time 16:56:23 is there an interpreter/compiler for arm? 16:56:37 Tasser: ECL has ARM support, I believe 16:57:01 -!- swilde [~wilde@aktaia.intevation.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:57:30 Tasser: Clozure CL in some contexts 16:57:44 ccl.clozure.com says linux/armv7l 16:58:07 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 16:59:07 how list implement array ? 16:59:21 morphism: like most other languages 16:59:39 usually a continous sequence of memory locations 17:00:21 is that cost O(1) to access one element in array ? 17:00:35 morphism: yes 17:00:56 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 17:01:02 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.125.36] has joined #lisp 17:02:45 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:02:46 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-eahswnhtyzecfjxb] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:03:05 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:03:10 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:04:07 jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 17:04:51 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:05:02 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:29 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:05:51 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 17:08:48 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:08:50 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-46.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:09:12 -!- akovalen` is now known as akovalenko 17:10:28 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-nraofmqvcycmzpoa] has joined #lisp 17:12:43 pnq [~nick@ACA2540D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:13:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 17:14:32 Tasser: i've played with ccl on an omap3 system a bit - worked quite well 17:14:57 Tasser: (so gumstix, bugbase, raspberry pi are all potential lisp machines) 17:15:21 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-nraofmqvcycmzpoa] has quit [Client Quit] 17:15:25 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:49 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:18:20 -!- p_l|flying is now known as p_l|backup 17:18:39 -!- __main__ [~main@76-220-16-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:18:39 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:18:46 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 17:19:05 loke for example ? 17:19:31 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:20:10 -!- elliottcable is now known as elliottcableOff 17:20:24 (make-array '( 2 2) :initial-contents '( ((1)(2)) ((3)(4)) )) ? 17:21:34 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:21:37 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:22:01 -!- topeak [~topeak@117.79.232.232] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:22:35 looks like a matrix 17:22:43 square* 17:25:22 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.99] has joined #lisp 17:28:16 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-uxpmugqwabyrcwss] has joined #lisp 17:28:48 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-uxpmugqwabyrcwss] has quit [Client Quit] 17:29:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:29:37 -!- macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:30:44 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-srdohujwjurwbfgt] has joined #lisp 17:31:19 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:36:09 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-pbdahpbtlkdfjxfy] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:41:50 ZabaQ1 [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:20 gtoast [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has joined #lisp 17:42:27 -!- ZabaQ1 [~Zaba@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:53 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:45:05 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 17:45:51 -!- xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:50:04 -!- dans [~daniel@92.80.89.31] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:50:18 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.140.53] has joined #lisp 17:50:35 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 17:51:47 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:51:49 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2540D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:51:50 lisp themed license plate http://www.itworld.com/offbeat/204209/worlds-geekiest-license-plates?page=0,22 17:52:25 looks like new hampshire plates 17:52:55 dans [~daniel@92.80.124.91] has joined #lisp 17:53:04 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:54:09 ah yes: http://www.flickr.com/photos/qwrrty/403431996/ - very old, as the New Hampshire motor vehicle registry says that plate is available. 17:55:28 The metadata says it was taken in 2007 in MA, though? 17:55:49 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 17:56:29 perhaps, but that is certainly a new hampshire plate. 17:56:37 macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 17:56:50 kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has joined #lisp 17:58:00 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:59:08 ma and nh are right next to each other... 17:59:33 *Xach* wonders which NH lisp nerd got that plate! 17:59:44 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:59:54 Southern New Hampshire is composed of sleeper communities for 128-and-inward companies, to some extent. 18:00:50 ayup. 18:03:04 sogeking99 [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 18:03:45 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.140.53] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:04:38 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 18:05:41 Good old NH, home of my 18th century ancestors. I should visit some day. 18:05:56 lisper hotbed 18:06:11 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:06:35 Next ILC in Claremont, I say. 18:09:14 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 18:11:28 Actually, I hope the next ILC really is planned for Japan, as rumored. That would be a great trip. 18:12:15 it *was* announced by the folks charged with planning ILCs. 18:12:56 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2DB5.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 18:13:23 -!- gtoast [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:13:30 gtoast [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has joined #lisp 18:14:01 benny [~benny@i577A2455.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:15:32 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 18:15:32 the pastebin in the topic is broken? 18:16:35 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124929 This is yours? 18:16:45 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:17:07 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.140.53] has joined #lisp 18:17:09 Hm, the submit form isn't coming back for me. Is that what you mean, sogeking99? 18:17:24 yeah i just got a white screen 18:17:24 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 18:17:34 Despite the lack of feedback, it seems to be processing them. 18:17:40 You can see yours: http://paste.lisp.org/list 18:18:00 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:19:16 xharkonnen [~charles@host86-141-143-76.range86-141.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:19:24 oh yeah thanks. some reason this isn't working. i am getting 'undefined function' for add-record and propmpt-for-cd in the add-cds function http://paste.lisp.org/display/124929 18:20:14 sogeking99: did you write that stuff into a file? 18:20:53 yeah then i compile it with C-C C-C 18:21:07 sogeking99: C-c C-c does not compile a file. It compiles an individual form. 18:21:14 sogeking99: If you want to compile the whole file, use C-c C-k. 18:21:30 I usually compile each form as I write it. 18:21:59 Does anyone know about an assembler for x86-64 (in common lisp) 18:22:01 ? 18:22:16 oh that works now, thanks Xach 18:22:42 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:23:59 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: peace] 18:25:17 no problem 18:26:35 hey guys, how to flush socket buffer ? 18:26:55 or after usocket receive data, it flush itself ? 18:27:47 Blkt [~user@82.84.156.209] has joined #lisp 18:28:48 can lisp be used for browser games, like flash or java 18:29:04 why not? 18:29:13 sogeking99: java? 18:29:14 sogeking99: no one has come up with a lisp virtual machine plugin for all major browsers 18:29:22 sogeking99: so, uh, not really 18:29:39 sigh 18:29:56 Xach, yeah java games can work in browser cant they 18:30:11 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:30:26 dlowe, ah well, someone better get on that then :) 18:30:37 sogeking99: Maybe. I haven't seen any games like that in a long time, though. 18:30:46 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:30:59 sogeking99: better not. 18:31:02 sogeking99: some people use Lisp as part of the production of Flash games. 18:31:27 minecraft works in browsers, which is a java game 18:31:42 hey guys 18:31:45 I got trouble 18:32:04 morphism: If you don't get an answer, it's possible that nobody has the answer. 18:32:09 spacebat, not really doable? 18:32:10 morphism: I sure don't. 18:32:12 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:32:22 http://pastebin.com/c00DTNNg 18:32:24 spacefrogg, i mean 18:32:46 I copied the error =.= 18:32:51 please check 18:32:53 morphism: so your recursive function isn't terminating 18:32:54 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 18:32:56 stack exhausted 18:33:34 nope, I use no- recursive function 18:33:35 :( 18:33:43 sogeking99: browser are vulnerable not for their html or css functions but for their java(-script) and flash capabilities. they very likely will be vulnerable through a badly designed lisp plugin as well. 18:33:58 I just over-use my socket data transmission 18:34:42 oh right 18:35:11 morphism: show the code 18:36:08 =.= 18:36:11 oh.. got one 18:36:36 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:36:41 how to not use rec func in lisp ? 18:36:51 imperative loop ? 18:37:37 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:38:01 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 18:39:50 klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-205-208.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 18:40:02 jlaire [~jlaire@80-248-244-31.cust.suomicom.fi] has joined #lisp 18:44:10 morphism: sure. or you can provide a way for the function to terminate 18:44:13 hi fe[nl]ix 18:45:13 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.125.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:45:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:46:03 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:47:35 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:49:18 can anyone recommend a browser-based editor that can edit lisp to an acceptable extent? 18:49:55 H4ns: Does it have to be one that works well on slow/long-latency links? 18:50:06 Because if not, Emacs w/gtk3 :) 18:50:47 p_l|backup: no, it will run locally. gtk3 can render using a browser? 18:51:00 H4ns: codemirror.net seems promising 18:51:15 H4ns: it does not directly support cl, but maybe the scheme support could be adapted without much effort 18:51:36 H4ns: there's a GTK3 output driver that uses JS and WebSockets (I think) to display GTK3 applications in browsers 18:51:40 also, it is written by Marijn "Postmodern" Haverbeke 18:51:53 Xach: i'll give that a try 18:51:56 it's an insane project, but I recall seeing it work enough to run some stuff 18:52:12 p_l|backup: is that something experimental or can one actually install and use it? 18:53:43 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:54:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:54:19 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:56:38 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:56:48 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-108-191.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:57:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:58:09 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:59:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:59:42 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 19:00:29 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:30 H4ns: may I ask you why do you want to edit code via browser? 19:03:03 Blkt: i am working on a templating system that uses lisp as template language. 19:03:10 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:03:23 I see 19:03:28 Blkt: and i'm now writing sort of a browser-based ide for template development (the system generates pdf) 19:03:28 H4ns: i'm curious how that will turn out, sounds interesting 19:03:36 H4ns: http://www.ymacs.org/demo/ Might want to try this 19:03:38 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 19:04:22 drdo: i tried that, but it does not have a working meta key on my box 19:04:28 codemirror seems nice. 19:04:52 and it will be an easy sell as we're using postmodern already :) 19:06:04 H4ns: http://codemirror.net/1/story.html has some interesting history 19:06:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@141.212.56.151] has joined #lisp 19:06:54 gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 19:07:24 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 19:07:25 i still always call functions wrong, i always put arguments in their own parameters like this (foo (x)) rather than just (foo x) darn it :p 19:07:40 sogeking99: practice, practice, practice 19:08:08 When I write C, I'm always typing (printf ... 19:09:24 yeah i am still used to pythons syntax, but i think lisp is a lot more fun to write with. 19:09:53 I try to defun a function in Clojure and, worse, to put it's arguments between ()... 19:11:02 its. 19:11:09 true 19:11:13 sorry 19:11:33 I'm a bit tired, can hardly speak in my mother tongue... 19:12:06 Before I started reading practical common lisp I started with a scheme book, so it took me a while to stop typing (define) 19:14:07 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:16:57 whats the ':direction :output' in the with-open-file function(or macro?) 19:19:06 something like "w" is for fopen in C 19:19:25 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:19:45 there's also another option :if-exists :supersede 19:20:22 which makes with-open-file delete file content when you write to it 19:21:39 sogeking99: it's documented at http://l1sp.org/cl/open 19:21:50 Ah right, thanks guys. 19:23:56 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-108-191.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:25:13 dextroid [40a767b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.167.103.178] has joined #lisp 19:25:15 sogeking99: I find it pretty annoying to have to read your questions on #lisp, comp.lang.lisp, and stack overflow. 19:25:21 Why the shotgun approach? 19:25:55 -!- kpavn [~kpavn@77.41.103.59] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:25:59 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:26:24 Does Postmodern (pgsql interface) use parameterization, or do I need to escape everything? 19:26:42 Xach: for the resolution! 19:26:45 lol 19:26:56 dextroid: if you use s-sql, you don't have to escape anything. i find that very handy. 19:26:58 the one on stackoverflow is different question. you must be all over the lisp community Xach. 19:29:15 dextroid: postmodern does support parameterization via PREPARE 19:29:24 beat me to it :( 19:29:27 and related 19:29:47 *Xach* did not know that until he just read the manual, postmodern's is quite nice 19:30:09 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:30:40 -!- dextroid [40a767b2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.64.167.103.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:31:59 I found postmodern to be a really first-class library 19:32:50 Marijn is a top hacker 19:33:14 Sadly, he will not be at ECLM 19:33:54 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:33:59 *sykopomp* was quite surprised that Marijn is also the author of the fine Eloquent Javascript book. 19:34:28 is it a bad idea to read two books at one do you think? in this case land of lisp and PCL 19:34:51 naeg_ [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:35:22 sogeking99: I read Gentle Intro and PCL somewhat simultaneously. Read a chapter or two in Intro, then the pertinent chapters in PCL. 19:36:39 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:37:05 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:40 Can't think of anything that would make it a bad idea. Unless you're reading AMOP and Let Over Lambda at the same time :/ Not that that would be a bad idea either... but I don't see how that would work :) 19:38:24 Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 19:38:25 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:38:51 hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-198-228-195-212.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:38 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:40:40 yeah i've read through the very gentle chapter one last night 19:40:42 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@141.212.56.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:11 -!- Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:41:53 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 19:42:26 -!- naeg_ [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:42:31 PLC seems very good, only the second chapter and already have a fairly decent database program. 19:42:31 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 19:43:11 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-209-248-53.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 19:43:42 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 19:44:57 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:45:36 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:47:35 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-73-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 19:48:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@mobile-198-228-195-212.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:48:35 _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has joined #lisp 19:49:05 i like it 19:49:21 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 19:51:58 PCL was like reading a novel for me, DEFinition for MAC/Read Only is a priceless piece of narrative! 19:52:55 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:55:28 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:04 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 19:57:24 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:57:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:58:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:59:53 phryk [~phryk@yggdrasil.phryk.net] has joined #lisp 20:00:27 I try to determine the mimetype of a file. How should I do this? I found cl-mime, but unfortunately no documentation for it 20:02:20 phryk: magicffi might help. 20:04:47 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:57 Ah sounds good. 20:07:07 -!- sogeking99 [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:08:30 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:14 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 20:15:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:15:55 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:16:18 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7818.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:17:59 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:19:32 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 20:20:19 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@77.17.141.91.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 20:22:18 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-73-147.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:25:18 in the format function, I know I can do something like (format t "~15THi"). Is there a way to use a parameter instead of a hardcoded value in the control string? 20:27:07 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/22_c.htm 20:27:46 ~A will suffice for your needs, I guess :P 20:27:54 yes I'm aware of the hyperspec... I figured asking would be faster than digging through it more... already checked gigamonkey 20:28:05 no it won't--I want to output a variable number of tabulation columns 20:28:13 hmm 20:28:27 I could just loop and output a space each time, but that sucks 20:28:36 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 20:28:40 you mean, define the minimum space a value takes? 20:28:51 Couldn't you create the control string w/ another format? 20:29:01 yeah, durr, I'll do that 20:29:56 there's also ~mincol 20:31:00 bfein: v 20:31:11 e.g. (format t "~vTHi" 15) 20:31:18 ah, right 20:31:26 thanks xach 20:31:30 I didn't know about that. That's great. 20:31:40 *Xach* uses it from time to time 20:32:01 I knew there was something, I just couldn't remember what... I know I've used the make a format string before, but thats mostly when I need to pass it somewhere else 20:33:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.228.165] has joined #lisp 20:35:07 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 20:35:50 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 20:36:12 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@pool-108-20-97-221.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:37:15 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-72-43-20-246.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:37:43 -!- gensym [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:37:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-166-248.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:39:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 20:41:07 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 20:42:20 Xach: I was looking for that yesterday! thanks for knowing the answer and thanks bfein for questioning 20:43:31 Xach: Thanks for Vecto! Just what I need. 20:43:42 frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.234.96] has joined #lisp 20:44:06 -!- shaggy- [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (Session timeout)] 20:44:13 gensym [~user@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 20:44:25 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-127.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:21 nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.180.157] has joined #lisp 20:46:51 vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 20:49:29 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:50:13 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 20:50:38 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 20:58:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:32 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:01:22 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:02:04 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:03:12 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:36 -!- kenanb [~kenanb@94.54.237.227] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:06 *sykopomp* wonders why there's like 8 calls to session-verify every time he refreshes a page, using hunchentoot's one-thread-per-connection. 21:08:47 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 21:08:57 <|3b|> loading images/css/js or whatever? 21:10:17 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 21:11:17 sykopomp: For cl-speedy-queue, I'd think the current QUEUE-COUNT should be renamed QUEUE-LENGTH, and the current QUEUE-LENGTH should be renamed QUEUE-TOTAL-SIZE, by analogy with LENGTH and ARRAY-TOTAL-SIZE given a vector with a fill-pointer... 21:11:58 Also, in the .asd did you know you can specify :maintainer "you"? 21:11:58 |3b|: ...good point. That would do it. 21:12:14 Hexstream: I did not know, no. 21:13:09 DaDaDosPrompt [~DaDaDosPr@184.99.29.100] has joined #lisp 21:13:36 *sykopomp* wonders if there's a way to make handlers skip session verification. 21:13:51 naryl: if you make something cool with it, you have to show it to me 21:13:52 (specifically, the serve-this-public-static-file handlers) 21:14:16 sykopomp: put an nginx/apache in front of it and have that serve static files 21:14:41 when *print-readably* is non-nil, objects should be written in a form that allows the reader to read them later on. is there a straight-forward way to supply a sexp which should be evaluated to return the object after reading? 21:14:49 antifuchs: I guess I'll just rely on that on release. I'm doing that eventually anyway. 21:14:50 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@113.190.224.155] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:15:20 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:16:10 madnificent: most readable printers use #. to reconstruct the object 21:16:34 madnificent: note that *print-readably* indicates that the reader should return the object already, not a form that constructs the object 21:17:08 see also make-load-form and friend 21:18:39 Xach: ah, that may be what i'm missing 21:18:40 *read-eval* also affects the writer 21:18:51 Xach: also, the assignment looked somewhat fun (and good you posted it) 21:18:53 clhs *read-eval* 21:19:23 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/v_rd_eva.htm#STread-evalST 21:19:48 Xach: of course! 21:19:54 madnificent: good way for some third-world lisper to earn 30 21:19:58 What's the license btw? 21:20:13 naryl: BSD-like 21:20:24 with a "show me cool stuff" clause. 21:20:29 :] 21:20:32 ok, there is no show me cool stuff clause. this isn't cl-http. 21:20:34 -!- dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:20:44 I'll show it *if* it works. 21:20:51 i.e. if it turns out to be cool. 21:21:03 non-working stuff can be cool too (: 21:21:06 Xach: they shouldn't be helped, the guy should just make the assignment. still, i couldn't help but take a peek at what they had to build in a course using lisp. 21:21:59 Xach: the way I understood it, this is a site seeking people to do work on student assignments, so they can sell the solutions at a profit to several other students 21:22:12 dRbiG [drbig@unhallowed.pl] has joined #lisp 21:22:19 antifuchs: so, a readable printer should fail if *read-eval* is nil and the only way it has to print an object is through #. 21:22:47 acelent: yeah, I guess. you can always define your own reader syntax, of course 21:23:00 antifuchs: wow, so the student is *taking* cs, but *learning* internet entrepreneurship. very meta. 21:23:11 Xach: sounds like it! 21:23:28 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:23:46 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-srdohujwjurwbfgt] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:23:48 we have a new paul graham, it seems (: 21:23:55 (we noticed him first (-;) 21:24:38 marsell [~marsell@120.22.96.126] has joined #lisp 21:24:52 /quit 21:24:52 21:25:11 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.73.111.23] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:25:39 antifuchs: "look at me, i spotted someone else who is important first" feels a tad odd though 21:25:52 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.247.114.208] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:27:50 madnificent: I wasn't entirely serious. 21:28:06 -!- _danb_ [~user@124-149-162-79.dyn.iinet.net.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:28:18 (I don't wish this entrepreneur anything but the worst of luck, at any rate) 21:28:32 I haven't heard back from the professor yet. 21:28:49 that will be interesting (: 21:29:51 akovalenko [~user@95.73.111.23] has joined #lisp 21:31:16 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:31:20 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-46.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:31:25 duomo [~duomo@cpe-69-204-169-245.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:32:28 antifuchs: i know, yet the statement in itself felt funny also 21:33:19 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 21:33:59 eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-25-187.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has joined #lisp 21:35:07 fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518c5d.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 21:35:54 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:02 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 21:36:36 it's not exactly clear for me when make-load-form is being called. if an object is written to a stream through #'write with :readably being true, will that use the results of make-load-form unless specified otherwise? i'm clearly missing something still. 21:36:53 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.156.209] has quit [Quit: good night] 21:38:08 -!- gensym [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:55 madnificent: no, make-load-form has nothing to do with WRITE and READ, it only influences how literals in code are serialized to compiled files 21:39:46 ah great, then it is not quite as related to my initial question as i hoped 21:39:52 madnificent: consider hash-tables: they have no readable syntax, yet they are required to be loadable 21:40:20 gensym [~user@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 21:41:11 what i basically wanted to know is: if i want to write an object readably, then is there an easy way to specify a form that, when evaluated, will yield an equivalent object? 21:41:12 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:42:41 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.222.34] has joined #lisp 21:42:41 madnificent: (cons quote your-object) 21:42:46 madnificent: (cons 'quote your-object) 21:43:05 madnificent: * (list 'quote your-object) 21:43:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.228.165] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 21:43:11 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 21:44:12 madnificent: i.e. standard things that can be printed readable are also acceptable as literals 21:44:15 wait, print-object may return a list? 21:44:30 and that list will then be evaluated when the form is read? 21:44:39 madnificent: print-object doesn't return, it only prints. what are you trying to achieve? 21:44:41 well, when the printed object is read 21:44:48 what i basically wanted to know is: if i want to write an object readably, then is there an easy way to specify a form that, when evaluated, will yield an equivalent object? 21:45:33 madnificent: read-print consistency is when you don't have to _evaluate_ anything, it's when READ is enough to get back an equivalent object 21:45:58 madnificent: ...that's why your request seems so strange. 21:46:22 so basically: say i know an s-expression that when evaluated, yields an equivalent object to the object that's being printed right now. then is there a way to specify that that form should be inserted into the forms i'm writing to a file, when print-readably is true. 21:46:32 s/print-readbly/*print-readably* 21:46:57 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 21:47:01 madnificent: if you're defining print-object for your own class, printing out #.(make-instance ...) is a common way 21:47:22 madnificent: ...but it should signal an error if *read-eval* is false 21:48:22 (you may define your own constructor function instead of using make-instance, of course) 21:49:28 akovalenko: well, for starters, i'm loading the form later on, not reading it. secondly, that would still mean that i'd have to duplicate how the symbols themselves are printed, as i need to write to the stream myself. it seems a bit odd to me that there's no defined way to return a form. i either don't know the construction, or i'm missing some insight on the intended use. 21:49:57 madnificent: what is the problem with printing forms? 21:50:36 if i print a list, and *print-readably* is true, won't the list be escaped so it will be read as a list? 21:50:52 ah of course! 21:51:12 it isn't! it's printed as a list, but then load evaluates the printed forms and everything works as expected 21:51:23 -!- frozencemetery [~frozencem@128.237.234.96] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:51:31 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:51:55 madnificent: yep; you'll end up better if you think of read/write stuff and load+eval stuff separately 21:51:57 so i can just #'print the forms to the stream to which i should've written my object, as if nothing special was going on 21:52:42 i got confused by searching for a relation to make-load-form and then #. was a tad confusing as well 21:52:46 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: mstevens] 21:52:51 i didn't want it to be evaluated at read time. 21:52:56 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:53:49 madnificent: note that print-object is not expected to print out a *form* that evaluates to object (if you don't prefix it by #., at least) 21:53:54 regardless, i was hoping that there'd be a generic function which would be tried when *print-readably* is non-nil. i guess i'll have to put a case statement in print-object 21:54:12 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:54:38 madnificent: putting it into print-object violates the protocol 21:54:46 akovalenko: but if i prefix it with #., then it'll be evaluated at read-time... 21:54:58 -!- BrokenCog [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:55:18 madnificent: yes, and you'll *have* print-read consistency, not print-read inconsistency with print-read/eval consistency 21:55:21 i want it to be evaluated at load-time 21:55:34 but i *want* pritn-read/eval consistency 21:55:37 print 21:55:47 madnificent: then define your generic function, and call it print-form 21:56:23 but then i'll need to overwrite everything that write does for me so far, not that big of a deal, but still 21:56:30 madnificent: let it default to print-object, and override it for conses (where (quote) is needed) and for custom objects 21:56:39 i could make use of make-load-form in that case though, no? 21:56:40 -!- gensym` [~user@dslc-082-082-127-132.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:57:36 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:57:50 -!- zenlunatic [~justin@c-68-48-40-231.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:57:51 in the sense that i could try make-load-form first, then try print-object and if both signal an error, error out as well. 21:58:51 madnificent: you're unlikely to get anything useful for *printing* from make-load-form 21:59:34 you're right 21:59:46 thanks for holding my hand during this reasoning 22:00:16 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:02:11 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-195.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 22:02:14 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 22:03:22 -!- ramusar__ [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:04:08 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:06:51 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 22:07:10 -!- macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:08:38 ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has joined #lisp 22:09:09 sid3k [~user@li298-167.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 22:11:09 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:12:32 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:40 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@28.sub-75-204-13.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 22:12:41 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:13:54 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:15:10 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:15:54 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:23:00 Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@244.sub-75-202-69.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 22:23:07 -!- eudoxia [~eudoxia@r190-135-25-187.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:23:28 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@28.sub-75-204-13.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:26:27 Hello Dragons! 22:26:51 Does anyone know if (describe-object (make-hash-table) *standard-output*) is supposed to work on SBCL? 22:27:24 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.99] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:27:28 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.140.53] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:28:16 nm I forgot. Users aren't supposed to call DESCRIBE-OBJECT. 22:28:21 -!- klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-205-208.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:33:05 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 22:34:13 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:35:55 -!- Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:36:01 _danb_ [~user@203.38.189.126] has joined #lisp 22:43:06 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:43:56 frozencemetery [~frozencem@CMU-786527.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 22:52:55 fantazo [~fantazo@91-115-169-221.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 22:53:56 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@77.17.141.91.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:59:41 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:32 -!- Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@244.sub-75-202-69.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:01:10 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:02:53 -!- p_l|backup [~plasek@pp84.internetdsl.tpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:02:59 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 23:04:38 dwim [~dwim@69.Red-79-158-106.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:48 Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has joined #lisp 23:08:05 -!- vjacob [~vjacob@78-105-184-157.zone3.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:17:45 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-201-46.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:18:06 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 23:18:13 Xach: Thanks for pointing out magicffi, my site is now finally returning headers with the right mimetypes :) 23:22:13 phryk: for a website? 23:22:25 Yes^^ 23:22:30 phryk: usually web servers just look at the string after the last . in the url and make something up based on that. 23:22:59 hunchentoot didn't it has a mime-type function but that only returned NIL on everyfile I fed it 23:24:42 -!- fartofagony [fartofagon@c-346ee155.227-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:24:50 fartofagony [fartofagon@c-346ee155.227-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 23:25:00 phryk: really? works for me. 23:25:23 (hunchentoot:mime-type "foo.gif") => "image/gif" 23:25:41 I'm retarded 23:25:47 -!- gtoast [~cdimara@208.106.22.18] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:25:50 I fed it the whole pathspec m( 23:25:55 -!- fartofagony [fartofagon@c-346ee155.227-1-64736c11.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Client Quit] 23:26:00 Well I'm going to fix that tomorrow 23:26:34 what whole pathspec? 23:26:56 of the file to deliver 23:27:07 the one i also fed handle-static-file 23:29:19 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-37.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:29:29 H4ns [~hans@host-67-23-65-202.biznesshosting.net] has joined #lisp 23:30:07 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.136.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:16 loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 23:30:45 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:36:09 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:37:20 __main__ [~main@76-220-16-41.lightspeed.sntcca.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:30 phryk: what's an example of a whole pathspec? 23:42:19 -!- drewc [~user@PC687f74269abb-WM0003D709793f.wbb.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:44:39 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:47:37 -!- rme [rme@696C65D6.F26E1912.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:47:37 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.156.82] has quit [Quit: rme] 23:48:46 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 23:50:22 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 23:53:52 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:55:07 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:56:45 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:57:05 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:16 nicdev [~user@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:57:48 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection]