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[~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:18 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 01:11:01 -!- seangrove [~user@114.205.211.236] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 01:13:37 hi. is clbuild still the recommended way to install and update packages? 01:14:16 Quicklisp is the generally-recommended way, nowadays. 01:15:08 or clbuild2. clbuild2 uses quicklisp as backend, doesn't it? 01:15:55 seems so 01:16:31 -!- tali713 [~user@c-107-2-70-58.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 01:17:17 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:18:04 everybody here still hate debian packages for a lisp environment? :) 01:18:27 they tend not to work. 01:18:58 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p54839A50.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:20:18 just checkin :) 01:23:39 -!- gortonsfisherman is now known as Obomba 01:23:50 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] 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01:48:49 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@75-138-199-162.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:48:49 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 01:51:52 RoobZ [~user@189.72.55.207] has joined #lisp 01:51:54 retroj: lisp environment in archlinux also stinks 01:52:17 I'm having hard times getting stuff to work 01:52:28 *sykopomp* has no such problems. 01:52:51 nanoc: don't install libraries off AUR 01:52:57 well, debian used to have common-lisp-controller, which drove everyone mad. but that's gone now. 01:53:07 #wrongplanet-alt,#overthehill,##belz,#quirkyCarla,#aspietalk 01:53:36 -!- RoobZ [~user@189.72.55.207] has quit [Client Quit] 01:53:38 nanoc: or [extra], or anywhere. Use quicklisp to install lisp packages. The implementation packages on Arch are pretty good, though. 01:54:06 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:54:48 quicklisp seems nice 01:55:09 error messages not too helpful when something fails to compile 02:00:08 akovalenko [~user@95.72.99.47] has joined #lisp 02:00:38 -!- BountyX [~erhan@adsl-76-243-186-99.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:01:05 ProgramMan [ProgramMan@my-bnc.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:19 hey! 02:01:24 I am designing a new Lisp forum 02:01:31 and will be using this channel via java applet 02:01:35 built into the website 02:01:43 we are almost done but are debating between four different logos 02:01:44 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:01:49 here is a montage of the four different logos 02:01:50 http://i.imgur.com/Usqtb.jpg 02:01:52 please 02:02:00 we need feedback as to what most people think is the best 02:02:09 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o Zhivago 02:02:15 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 02:02:21 -!- Zhivago has set mode +q ProgramMan!*@* 02:02:25 -!- Zhivago has set mode -o Zhivago 02:02:53 BountyX [~erhan@adsl-76-243-186-99.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:53 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:03:10 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 02:04:57 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:05:11 -!- Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:05:40 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:10:04 Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has joined #lisp 02:11:04 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:12:36 Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-tanuamevvzmfwzik] has joined #lisp 02:13:24 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:14:10 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:14:21 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:15:02 seangrove [~user@114.205.211.236] has joined #lisp 02:15:03 -!- BountyX [~erhan@adsl-76-243-186-99.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:15:03 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:15:43 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 02:17:18 BountyX [~erhan@76.241.73.125] has joined #lisp 02:18:56 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-126-82.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:20:02 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 02:20:07 -!- olliee [~haellman@c80-217-120-177.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:21:43 heh 02:23:52 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-236-185.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:24:33 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:24:56 -!- BountyX [~erhan@76.241.73.125] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:28:46 tali713 [~user@c-107-2-72-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:53 gko [~gko@27.240.206.168] has joined #lisp 02:29:47 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 02:31:02 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-126-82.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:33:04 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-236-185.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 02:33:36 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 02:35:28 luig1 [~anonymous@fl-71-55-242-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:59 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 02:41:18 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:41:33 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 02:42:25 sykopomp: yeah, I discovered quicklisp already, though it doesn't work as straightforward in clisp as in sbcl, anyway, is strange there's several aur package for some lisp libraries and not one for quicklisp 02:42:52 nanoc: you can safely pretent those aur packages do not exist. 02:43:58 :) 02:46:19 hm.. wonder if it's safe to use slime from debian now 02:46:20 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:46:37 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A1FF7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:46:54 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 02:49:53 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 02:50:03 I'm a bit late, but: 02:50:13 *Hexstream* dvoraks on a Typematrix 2030 :) 02:50:19 retroj: it's importat /which/ debian 02:50:59 (with extensive remapping of modifiers. I can press Ctrl, Alt and Shift with my thumbs easily in any combination) 02:51:20 retroj: if it's debian stable, everything may be okay, but if you hit a problem, all other lispers would have already forgotten how it were solved 02:51:25 -!- Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:51:39 Iceland_jack [~baldur@earth.sudo.is] has joined #lisp 02:51:47 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 02:51:56 akovalenko: i'm running wheezy (current testing) 02:52:28 retroj: then you have a fairly recent cl-swank 02:52:30 ah, but i see quicklisp has a slime downloader 02:53:16 -!- luig1 [~anonymous@fl-71-55-242-115.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:53:42 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 02:54:40 for quicklisp, slime is (almost) just another system, like many others; no separate "slime downloader". What is special is the quicklisp-slime-helper, a tiny script that configures your Emacs to use the "quicklisped" slime. 02:54:52 -!- pearle [~pearle@blk-224-178-238.eastlink.ca] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:55:03 right 02:55:16 that's what i was referring to 02:55:52 BountyX [~erhan@adsl-76-241-120-211.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:57:30 -!- tali713 [~user@c-107-2-72-167.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 02:57:54 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@71-38-152-64.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:58:08 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-152-64.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:09 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 03:00:31 -!- BountyX [~erhan@adsl-76-241-120-211.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:00:32 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:39 elopezc [~ikki@189.247.126.65] has joined #lisp 03:04:33 ninwa [~joey@d192-24-87-196.try.wideopenwest.com] has joined #lisp 03:05:40 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:06:23 -!- ericklc [~ikki@189.247.168.67] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 03:14:22 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 03:18:38 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 03:19:12 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 03:23:39 ericklc [~ikki@189.139.95.181] has joined #lisp 03:27:09 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mrbuwmmondcjuegk] has joined #lisp 03:27:33 -!- elopezc [~ikki@189.247.126.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:35:56 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:35:57 leo2007 [~leo@123.123.253.89] has joined #lisp 03:36:18 BountyX [~erhan@adsl-75-10-151-252.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:21 -!- BountyX [~erhan@adsl-75-10-151-252.dsl.bcvloh.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:29 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 03:40:22 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-161-45.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:42:22 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082BF9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:53 dextroid [~dextroid@c-71-202-233-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:13 Hey, is there something equivalent to dotimes that returns a list of each iteration? 03:43:53 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082BEBA.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:44:12 anyone taking the aiclass or mlclass from stanford? 03:44:12 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:36 I am. Hope it's interesting. 03:44:43 dextroid: Elaborate? 03:44:45 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 03:44:59 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:45:05 Bike: I want to but my net connection is not that good. 03:45:08 dextroid: mapcar? 03:45:15 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 03:45:22 dextroid: Some heathens may suggest mapcar/iota, but I think you want loop, for, and collect. 03:46:33 pkhuong: just (do () (()) it) :) 03:46:42 akovalenko: only in SBCL. 03:48:41 Bike: here 03:49:07 i'm trying to read 8 characters from a file, and get the resulting string 03:49:36 pkhuong: closed heathen-haters from alexandria seem to be very smart with their map-iota thingie :) 03:49:42 *closet 03:49:58 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 03:50:07 (map-iota) sounds all functional and pure, but has a (loop ) inside 03:50:38 so it would be (loop repeat 8 collect (read-char)) ? 03:50:44 it's implementation hardly matters to the caller 03:51:01 funny. I'd have do that with map and a counter; that way we can accumulate into any sequence type. 03:51:11 huangjs [~huangjs@watchdog.msi.co.jp] has joined #lisp 03:51:21 dextroid: if you only need to read 8 characters, and don't care about the index, then yes. 03:51:40 pkhuong: awesome, thanks 03:51:41 pkhuong: (read-sequence (make-list 8)) ? 03:51:42 zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 03:51:59 pkhuong: oh sorry, it would need let() around 03:52:30 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 03:53:47 sometimes I wish there were something like reader labels, but for *evaluated* subexpressions: 03:54:25 (let ((..)) (with... (#1#=(oh i need it later))) (use #1#)) 04:04:33 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:30 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 04:10:43 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-236-185.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:10:57 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:12:34 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-211-210.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 04:13:23 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-213-161.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:20:16 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@dD57708DC.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:20:43 foom [~jknight@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 04:20:55 bfein [~bfein@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 04:21:30 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 04:24:51 -!- manish [~manish@122.167.38.92] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:29:45 -!- Daev is now known as MeanWeen 04:31:43 -!- Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:33:38 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 04:33:58 -!- Cam is now known as Cam_ 04:34:03 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE31F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:16 -!- Cam_ is now known as Cam 04:37:56 -!- Cam is now known as Cam_ 04:40:50 Tasser [~freak@subtle/contributor/Tass] has joined #lisp 04:43:50 -!- Cam_ is now known as Cam 04:44:31 -!- Cam is now known as cam_ 04:44:37 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 04:44:55 -!- cam_ is now known as cam 04:44:56 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:45:39 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 04:46:12 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:46:13 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:46:17 -!- cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Quit: <3 night] 04:46:35 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 04:46:38 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:52:14 -!- ninwa [~joey@d192-24-87-196.try.wideopenwest.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:52:43 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.123.253.89] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:58:57 -!- dextroid [~dextroid@c-71-202-233-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:59:03 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 04:59:46 gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 05:02:33 -!- ericklc [~ikki@189.139.95.181] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:06:23 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:07:48 zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 05:08:43 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:09:23 hello. not sure if this is the right channel for the question, there doesn't seem to be lispworks channel around here. where does lispworks personal keep per-user config/settings file? I have managed to break the ide somehow, but if I run it as another user it works fine 05:09:49 I checked this too, it didn't help. http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw60/RNIG/html/readme-236.htm 05:09:52 neither did reinstalling 05:10:10 this is on windows btw 05:13:37 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:13:43 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:13:44 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:15:56 this is the error I'm getting. http://img99.imageshack.us/img99/9497/lispworks.jpg 05:19:06 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE31F34.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:20:38 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:24:56 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:32:16 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 05:35:44 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:45:14 <__mal> zardoz8: under unix it's in ~/.lispworks-config 05:52:16 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.97.234] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 05:56:34 -!- zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 05:57:49 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:58:29 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:59:03 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 05:59:46 -!- bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:00:00 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 06:00:07 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 06:01:20 dextroid [~dextroid@c-71-202-233-36.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:01:23 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 06:01:45 hey, using Weblocks... what's a model for 06:01:46 zardoz8 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 06:01:53 thanks mal. is that a directory or a file? I can't seem to find anything similar on windows 06:02:18 is it an ORM? 06:02:23 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 06:04:31 -!- gcentaur1 [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 06:06:24 <__mal> zardoz8: it's a directory. the settings are saved in files likes .lispworks-config/6.0/Environment/LISPWORKS-TOOLS/EDITOR/.values 06:06:58 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 06:06:59 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 06:09:03 so for example 06:11:37 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 06:11:38 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:20:10 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 06:35:00 if I wanted to make a craigslist clone with weblocks 06:35:15 how would I go about it 06:35:24 would i have models for different 'regions'? 06:36:48 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:37:28 morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has joined #lisp 06:37:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:37:49 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 06:37:53 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:37:59 if so how would I get the model for a region 06:38:12 and get all models for listings within it 06:38:21 I don't see a query language 06:38:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:38:54 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:39:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:39:54 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:40:16 :/ hello? 06:40:16 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:40:48 would it be a navigation widget that set a widget that displayed posts in the appropriate region? 06:40:57 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:41:37 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 06:41:38 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:41:54 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:44:42 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 06:46:49 dextroid, r u talking about weblock ? 06:46:51 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:47:27 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:48:01 ``Erik, r u aerique ? 06:48:02 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:48:26 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:48:56 morphism: yes. 06:48:57 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:26 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:49:27 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:33 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:49:38 morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has joined #lisp 06:49:40 can i see your website ? 06:49:48 good morning 06:49:49 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:52 morphism: it's not up yet, sorry 06:49:57 :D 06:50:01 but, look at craigslist 06:50:17 there's large regions, and smaller subregions within them 06:50:21 I was very excited about Weblock, and think like one day will replace my current running website w/ it 06:50:27 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:50:36 listings are in one subregion 06:50:45 but can be seen from the larger region too 06:50:49 what a pity that free server don't support lisp 06:51:56 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 06:51:56 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:52:27 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:53:24 morphism1 [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has joined #lisp 06:53:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:45 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:53:54 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 06:54:03 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:56:44 -!- morphism1 [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has quit [Client Quit] 06:58:43 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@77.17.51.223.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:00:46 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-152-64.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:02:05 e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-tsvphrpictrcntaq] has joined #lisp 07:02:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:02:31 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:05:28 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-pkiznlipnlooyhio] has joined #lisp 07:05:29 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:05:51 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:06:00 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:08:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:31 -!- _danb_ [~user@203.38.189.126] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:12:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:36 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:12:49 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 07:12:55 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:14:41 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.65] has joined #lisp 07:17:47 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 07:17:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:18:02 Is there a more clever way to write: (defun bool-p (x) (or (null x) (eq t x))) 07:18:06 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:18:58 (member x '(t nil)) ? 07:19:00 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:19:35 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:20:23 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-122-110.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:20:25 Zhivago: (member t '(t nil)) returns (t nil), but I guess that doesn't really make a difference, unless you're going to be MAPCARing this function, chewing up lots of memory. 07:20:34 -!- astro-sock [~astro-soc@h-176-10-226-17.na.cust.bahnhof.se] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:20:53 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:20:55 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:23:24 gavinharper [~gavinrhar@dyn3-82-128-188-242.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:37 -!- gavinharper [~gavinrhar@dyn3-82-128-188-242.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:23:38 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:23:54 gavinharper [~gavinrhar@dyn3-82-128-188-242.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:55 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:24:31 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:24:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:24:56 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:25:02 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:25:27 insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-120-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 07:25:27 -!- insomnia1alt [~milan@port-92-204-120-242.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 07:25:27 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:25:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:25:54 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:27:01 -!- Amyn1 [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:27:01 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:27:36 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:28:47 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:28:48 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:28:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:29:11 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:31:24 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:31:57 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:24 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:32:26 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-0-6.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:32:58 (typep x 'boolean) 07:33:32 good morning everyone 07:33:32 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:33:54 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:35:33 morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has joined #lisp 07:35:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:35:56 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:36:05 pinterface: Good solution! 07:36:15 Seemingly optimal. 07:36:17 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:44 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:36:45 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:42:05 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 07:42:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:42:40 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:45:31 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:47:42 -!- lichtblau [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:49:47 akovalen` [~user@95.73.220.160] has joined #lisp 07:49:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:50:06 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:50:12 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:51:43 -!- akovalenko [~user@95.72.99.47] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 07:52:23 dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 07:52:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:52:51 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:56:21 leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.247] has joined #lisp 07:56:22 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:56:45 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:57:24 lnostdal_ [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:57:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:57:47 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 07:59:23 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:59:24 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:59:49 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:02:21 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:02:47 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:03:32 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-mrbuwmmondcjuegk] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 08:04:58 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:05:16 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:06:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:06:39 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:06:47 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:08:29 DelPuerto [~youguy@80.27.170.114] has joined #lisp 08:08:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:08:47 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:14:59 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:15:11 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:15:18 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:16:02 What's the best way to get access to something like mmap portably? 08:16:03 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:16:19 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:18:33 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@80.27.170.114] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 08:18:34 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:18:55 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:22:39 -!- zmv [~daniel@c953332e.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 08:24:31 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:24:33 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:24:52 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:25:19 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:25:54 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:27:43 morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has joined #lisp 08:29:37 Ralith: CFFI? 08:30:25 that's not very portable! 08:30:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:30:58 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:31:13 c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-polbxiwfwidwlgoi] has joined #lisp 08:31:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:31:41 Ralith: what's not very portable? CFFI? 08:31:57 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:32:05 jdz: CFFIing to a specific function 08:32:15 I could write my own trivial-mmap I guess 08:32:17 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:32:23 but I'm wondering if anyone already has 08:32:53 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:36:49 Ralith: it's very portable - there are only two interfaces you need to care about, and some groveling to take care of flags :D 08:36:50 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:37:03 p_l|backup: huh? 08:37:13 windows' mmap analog is nontrivial 08:37:15 of course, you can try writing all the variants for each implementation, too 08:37:21 huge heap of unnecessary complexity 08:37:23 gaidal [~gaidal@113.119.24.104] has joined #lisp 08:37:29 Ralith: that's the second implementation 08:37:31 I don't really want to decode it myself 08:37:35 if it can be avoided 08:38:29 -!- Tasser 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12:28:28 neena [~neena@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:23 can a macro somehow get access to the file in which the macro is being specified, or does the spec prohibit such use? 12:29:24 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:29:39 manuel_ [~manuel_@p57921CE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:42 oudeis [~oudeis@82.80.128.199] has joined #lisp 12:29:43 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 12:32:54 madnificent: *load-truename* or *compile-file-truename* but they might not have the values you expect. 12:33:05 madnificent: what would you do with that knowledge if you could get it perfectly? 12:34:31 the system can add data to the source file which is written interactively in the repl. i'd like to get the source file related to certain packages (the user specifies which file relates to a specific package by using a header (similar to in-package), but for the additions to work, i should know that particular file. 12:34:56 so basically, i would append sexps to the file 12:35:06 akovalenko [~user@95.73.220.160] has joined #lisp 12:36:50 ehu` [~ehuels@109.38.235.120] has joined #lisp 12:37:32 Xach: in what way would either of those yield an unexpected value? 12:37:56 How can I suppress warnings from evaluating a form? 12:38:00 madnificent: *load-truename* might be ~/.cache/common-lisp/sbcl-889834/myproject/woo.fasl 12:39:08 hi 12:39:21 I'm trying to write a lisp compiler for avr 12:39:31 any hints? 12:39:43 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:46 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.33.148.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:40:04 Ralith: call the muffle-warning restart? 12:40:26 Ralith: under sblc you can also add a declaration to muffle warnings, not sure if it's in the hyperspect. 12:40:32 s/hyperspect/hyperspec/ 12:40:42 Posterdati: what's avr? 12:40:57 one question : in c++ what does this means? 12:41:00 Xach: is there a non-portable way to get the name? how does asdf do it? 12:41:03 if (variable) 12:41:19 do that means : if (variable > 0 ) ? 12:41:21 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:41:44 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 12:41:47 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:41:47 topo: no, it's (if (=/ 0 variable) ... ) iirc 12:42:07 oh i see 12:42:07 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:42:16 ok thanks 12:42:22 you're welcome 12:42:39 topo: "if (variable)" is not lisp syntax. 12:42:49 yes i know, i need to translate that to lisp 12:42:50 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 12:42:52 thats why im ask 12:43:02 topo: From what? 12:43:09 from c++ 12:43:17 this code: 12:43:17 http://www.lighthouse3d.com/tutorials/glut-tutorial/the-code-so-far-ii/ 12:43:18 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:43:37 i just want to make it work the part that allow me to control the perspective of the 3d scene with the mouse 12:43:47 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 12:44:05 madnificent: I don't think ASDF has any macros that must learn the name of their defining source file. 12:44:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:39 madnificent: sb-introspect will tell you the file in which many things were defined, including macros. 12:44:45 it stores the name whilst it discovers where the asd files are then, i guess 12:44:47 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 12:45:04 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:45:20 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: bombshelter13b] 12:45:49 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 12:45:55 madnificent: atmel 8 bit microcontrollers 12:46:03 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 12:46:14 Posterdati: do they run C? 12:46:29 madnificent: yes 12:46:42 then it may be wise to check out how far ecl brings you 12:46:52 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-18-50.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 12:49:04 theres an error madnificent 12:49:05 Error in DRAW: The function COMMON-LISP-USER::=/ is undefined. 12:49:16 /= 12:49:59 ah ok 12:50:05 ;) 12:52:21 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:52:41 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:53:06 what does this can means? 12:53:06 debugger invoked on a TYPE-ERROR: 12:53:06 The value # is not of type SYSTEM-AREA-POINTER. 12:55:05 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Quit: > /dev/null 2>&1] 12:55:48 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-labixuazgslfmqbh] has joined #lisp 12:55:53 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-126-82.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:56:15 -!- herbieB_ [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:56:24 -!- 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has quit [Client Quit] 14:30:24 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:30:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:30:41 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:30:57 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 14:34:55 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@nc-184-3-67-135.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 14:35:15 Cloud [~cbolano@189.139.97.234] has joined #lisp 14:40:37 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 14:41:11 -!- macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:42:32 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has joined #lisp 14:43:59 loke [~user@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 14:44:13 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.176.137] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:44:19 I need some API design advice. 14:44:21 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 14:45:39 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:00 iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 14:46:10 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 14:46:15 macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has joined #lisp 14:46:29 This is the format of a Google Calendar entry. http://paste.lisp.org/display/124878 14:46:30 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:46:56 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 14:46:59 The question is, how should I represent this data in my GData API, in order to make it as flexible and structured as possible? 14:47:54 XML nodes. 14:47:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.50] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:48:03 I wrap it all in a CLOS class in order to be able to track changes (for saving updates), but the structure is painful. 14:48:38 I Java, I'd have a deep structure of multiple classes, representing the underlying structure, but that's way too unlispy to me. 14:48:58 It's XML, so ... 14:49:06 ... why not use an XML representation? 14:49:33 hugod [~hugod@70.24.176.163] has joined #lisp 14:49:48 Well, I am. I have it all in a DOM node. So are you saying that I just keep the node in the object, and the accessors just extract the necesary information as it's being requested? 14:50:07 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:27 That would satisfy your requirements. 14:50:35 Indeed 14:50:37 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-12-72.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 14:50:42 It's not bad actually. 14:50:46 Stick a cache in, if it is slow. 14:51:56 How should I handle change tracking though? I'd liket o be able to provide SETF-functions that allow me to update fields, and then just call a SAVE function which pushes the updates back to the server. That's how I handle the Spreadsheet API, but that format is way more structured and it was easier to do. 14:53:16 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 14:53:33 But wait a second... If I keep the DOM node intact, I can just push the entire node back when saving. I'd just let the SETF functions directly manipulate the DOM... Hmm. Might work. 14:54:42 With the gdata apis, in general, the update interface is not the same as the query interface. 14:54:46 MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-245-44.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 14:55:03 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:55:20 -!- yakov_ is now known as yakov 14:55:21 Zhivago: Hmm... might be true. Haven't looked at the updates of the contacts yet. In the spreadsheets case, you're finitely right though. 14:55:23 This might be an exception, but I'd recommend that you use an envelope abstraction. 14:55:46 In this case, you receive an envelope with a constructed request, and a blank response. 14:56:03 Although that probably doesn't fit your use case. 14:56:18 herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 14:56:25 I'd recommend keeping the update separate from the received data. 14:57:18 Well, my first test contact only had a name an an email address, so I started building a CLOS class that held the name and the email addresses. Then I went in an created the entry you see in the paste, and I quickly realised that there is a lot of data in there, and creating fields for it all looked so... hmm... ugly :-) 14:57:21 I'd also recommend deferring the xml construction until the update is complete. 14:57:36 Zhivago: I definitely do that in the spreadsheet case 14:57:49 I just barely begun the contacts stuff 14:57:50 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:04 I recommend doing that in general. 14:58:05 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-18-50.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:58:13 -!- macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:58:21 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:22 Mutating shortcuts are rarely worthwhile, particularly since you'll be i/o bound. 15:00:14 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-8-245-44.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:00:32 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-245-44.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 15:00:33 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:00:47 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 15:01:03 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 15:01:20 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.50] has joined #lisp 15:01:39 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:01:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:59 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 15:02:13 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:02:16 Here's the code reposity for anyone who's curious. The contact stuff is not there yet. http://code.google.com/p/cl-gdata/source/browse/#hg%2Fsrc 15:02:26 tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:39 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 15:03:22 now it is 15:03:55 criticism requested 15:03:56 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:03:57 :-) 15:04:10 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:04:57 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has left #lisp 15:05:24 I recommend that (unless a b) needs a newline in it. 15:05:34 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-tsvphrpictrcntaq] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:05:37 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Disconnected by services] 15:05:52 I recommend not writing #'(lambda ...) instead of (lambda ...) 15:06:04 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 15:06:07 where did you see the UNLESS thing? 15:07:39 Ah, found it. 15:07:41 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:59 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.226.67] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:09:04 (values-list (reverse (split-sequence:split-sequence #\: resource-id :count 2)))) 15:09:21 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:09:26 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:09:28 Would probably benefit from being rewritten with (multiple-value-bind and some sensible variables names. 15:10:10 Relatively boring and self-documenting code is usually preferable. 15:10:10 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-78-213-161.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:19 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:10:52 Zhivago: yeah. Probably. It's sort of grew organically. At first I simply returned the first value, and then I realised I needed both... Later I realised that usually you actually only need the second one (which caused the REVERSE) 15:11:21 macobo [~Karl@sein.ut.ee] has joined #lisp 15:11:34 I do agree that the code looks like it's trying to be fancy. :-) 15:11:38 vervic [~vervic@178-165-207-053.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 15:11:45 BrokenCog [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:25 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:32 Although I think you meant DESTRUCTURING-BIND and not MULTIPLE-VALUE-BIND 15:15:19 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-224.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:15:48 Yeah. 15:15:54 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:16:09 You also have an (if a nil b) in xml-misc 15:17:56 tsuru``` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:17:58 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:18:18 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 15:18:35 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 15:18:39 -!- elurin [~user@85.99.35.200] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:19:21 -!- tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:19:21 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:20:01 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 15:22:38 tsuru```` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:41 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.83] has joined #lisp 15:22:45 Zhivago: Yes? 15:22:54 Zhivago: is that a problem? You'd rather see UNLESS used? 15:23:45 I suppose the entire thing could be reduced to (when node ...) 15:24:21 -!- tsuru``` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:24:41 Usually I try to avoid taking advantage of the default NIL from when/unless, and I realy don't like having more than one line in the "then"-part of an IF form, since it makes the "else"-part look really disconnected. 15:24:48 (or (not a) b) 15:25:01 In such cases I usually fall back to COND just to be clear 15:25:53 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:49 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Going home...] 15:28:38 insanity99 [~owner@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:02 hey guys, im just learning lisp, is land of lisp a good book? 15:30:05 insanity99: quite fine 15:30:17 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 15:30:33 ok thanks, i am using clisp right now. 15:30:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:53 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 15:30:55 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:32:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 15:32:21 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:32:34 it's so differnt to any syntax i've seen. the way you define local variables in a function called 'let' or global in 'defparameter' so strange 15:32:54 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 15:34:17 insanity99: LET is not a function 15:34:38 insanity99: don't let its awkwardness to pull you away 15:34:51 HG` [~HG@p5DC05396.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:14 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:00 *dlowe_lt* didn't like Land of Lisp much 15:37:47 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-12-72.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:38:24 no i just need to get used to it im sure. i dont really have much programming experience, just some python basics and a small bit of java 15:38:45 jdz, yeah sorry, command 15:40:03 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 15:40:13 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:40:35 insanity99: actually, there are two similar forms to define what you call "global". DEFPARAMETER and DEFVAR. :-) 15:40:54 insanity99: it's not a command, too. it is a special operator. 15:41:10 loke, oh right thanks 15:41:15 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:41:17 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-labixuazgslfmqbh] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:41:24 jdz, ah noted :D 15:42:01 insanity99: you'll learn the difference between functions and macros/special operators soon enough i guess 15:42:43 insanity99: Don't worry though. It may look strange now, but once you start to understand how it all fits toegether, it becomes clear. You might still have opinions on the naming of things, but we all have that. It's best to just understand that most of these names are the result of decades of evolution, so we're kind of stuck with them. :-) 15:43:08 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:43:53 Personally, one of my pet peeves is the PROG, PROGN, PROG1, PROGV set of forms. I'd definitely name them differently. (except for PROGN and PROG1) 15:44:12 ok thanks, do you think i will have trouble programming because i am pretty weak with maths? many people say you need to be very good at maths 15:44:14 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-128-227-166.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 15:44:21 insanity99: No. 15:44:36 chturne [~chturne@host86-128-227-166.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 15:44:48 insanity99: Not unless you intend to create math-heavy software. Thankfully, comparatively few people do math-based software. 15:45:33 ah cool 15:46:55 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-2-61.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 15:47:04 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 15:47:43 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:51:14 insanity99, define 'math' 15:52:11 It is a common misconseption that you have to be "good with numbers" and have to remember hundreds of formulas in order to be "good at math". 15:53:21 -!- vervic [~vervic@178-165-207-053.dyn.orange.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:53:44 -!- karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:53:53 hi all. i'm playing with CommonQt, but finding that none of the qtwebkit bindings are available. i have all of the -dev packages that should be required for this, and I found an example web browser written in CommonQt, so i'm quite puzzled that it's not there on my system. any ideas what could be causing this? 15:54:04 vervic [~vervic@178-165-207-053.dyn.orange.at] has joined #lisp 15:54:09 really i'm rubbish at anything other than basic addition, subtraction, division and multiplication 15:54:27 insanity99: the really math-heavy stuff is the theoretical background behind languages like Haskell, which expose a lot rather directly 15:54:45 being bad at arithmetic doesn't necessarily make you a bad programmer. Being bad at mathematical, logical reasoning probably does 15:55:03 (the best way of improving at either is to practise) 15:55:05 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-qfuqtbxcravfxvyf] has joined #lisp 15:55:17 Hey, you can be bad at logical reasoning and yet be better than half the programmers out there. 15:55:27 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:55:29 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.53.247] has quit [Quit: night] 15:56:33 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-polbxiwfwidwlgoi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:57:22 that is not a particularly high bar 15:57:23 -!- Cloud is now known as cesarbp 15:57:43 Yeah. Anyways, just jump right in and stop fretting. 15:58:21 There is exactly one way to find out if you're cut out for programming and only one way to improve. 15:58:22 Daev [~KAPITAL@nc-184-3-67-135.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:58:28 -!- tsuru```` is now known as tsuru` 15:58:37 Program, program, program, learn a little and program alot more. 15:58:52 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-128-227-166.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:59:01 yeah i will stick with it, i got plenty of time since im currently unemployed. 15:59:49 *dl* is learning that after you program, program, program, learn a little more, ... that its important to go back and refactor your old code to reflect your new understanding (provided you ever want to touch that code again) 15:59:50 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:00:02 altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:12 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 16:00:14 dl, you usually don't. Don't you? 16:01:49 Usually when I read my old code, i think that that guy is a moron. 16:02:32 Then again, when I'm writing code I often think I'm a moron. :) Until I get one of those brilliant ideas late in the night. 16:02:50 karswell [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:03:56 *dl* has some libraries that I find quite useful that, unfortunately, I wrote 4+ years ago (when I thought CLOS was the answer to all the world's problems ;) and, its still useful to me, but I wish I'd refactored at least a couple times before now... :) 16:03:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:04 ISF_ [~ivan@143.106.196.83] has joined #lisp 16:04:22 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:04:57
mind you, CLOS is awesome, but there is plenty of good CLOS-free stuff in CL! 16:05:17 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.83] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:05:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:05:39 does common lisp have memory management? or is it manual like in C? 16:05:41 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:05:43 have you become CLOStrophobic? 16:05:55 insanity99: it's garbage collected 16:06:00 insanity99: it's the first language that had a garbage collector. So yes. 16:06:12 oh cool. 16:06:23 i guess clos is like macros. first you think you don't need them, then they look odd but overly cool, then you think everything can be made better by them. but only after that, you reach the true goal of using them when they're useful. 16:06:47 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-qfuqtbxcravfxvyf] has left #lisp 16:06:52 insanity99: history-wise the earliest lisps were the first garbage-collected languages :) 16:06:53 dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-qfuqtbxcravfxvyf] has joined #lisp 16:07:01 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33F41.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:27 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.182.50] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:07:29 Well, not hard for Lisp to be that, given the fact that it's arguably the second programming language ever created. :-) 16:08:33 I think the claim is "second oldest programming language in widespread use today" or something like that. 16:08:34 loke: not much to argue about that: we aren't the second programming language to be created. 16:08:41 austinh: yeah. 16:08:46 Is there a lisp-package offering syntax highlighting for multiple languages in html? 16:08:55 and that statement about being used is actually a much more important one 16:09:09 there are definitely earlier languages. I believe Plankalkuel was the second one 16:09:13 yeah, i've never heard of the first one really. 'Fortran' 16:09:16 the one by Ada was the first? 16:09:36 We're not programming in the original lisp anyway. 16:09:47 so I think it's misleading to say that 16:09:48 for babage's analythical machine... could be 16:10:34 since the conversation became lispy-advocacy oriented, what are your thoughts on newlisp? 16:10:55 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-12-72.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 16:11:07 nanoc: terrible 16:11:45 nanoc: just not very impressive, imho 16:12:05 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 16:12:24 looking at Fortran syntax lisp must have seemed like a huge step up in readability. 16:17:30 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 16:17:57 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:19:59 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:20:04 insanity99: well, back then it wasn't so much about readabilit 16:20:24 insanity99: Fortran was, and still is, the language that produces the fastest code for numerical computing. 16:20:33 Lisp simpl wasn't an option back then. 16:20:46 Now, things have changed of course. But it took a few decades. 16:21:05 samlander [~a@wan1.dawatt.com] has joined #lisp 16:21:16 what's the lisp equiv of isNumeric? 16:21:43 Intensity [C9pnwMcAg1@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 16:21:48 samlander: NUMBERP 16:22:00 samlander: in which language? (i.e., what should it do?) 16:22:09 (I suppose. I don't know what language isNumeric is in :-) ) 16:22:27 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:30 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:22:54 yeah seems the easier it is for a human to read the harder it is for the computer, like python is probably the most human looking syntax right? but is one of the slowest new ones. 16:23:16 actually i guess inform 7 is the most human 16:23:40 insanity99: not really. Python could be fast. It's just that the interprester was the most amateurish thing I've ever looked at (and I've looked at a few VM's) 16:23:51 Now, I know there are other implementations that are better. 16:24:07 (: 16:24:07 oh right 16:24:55 ruby's slower than python by a couple orders of magnitude 16:25:02 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:25:28 dlowe_lt: JRuby is supposed to be pretty good though? 16:25:32 but fortran is fast and is inhumanly hard to read 16:25:37 dlowe_lt: Although I never looked at it myself. 16:25:40 not MY fortran! 16:25:42 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:25:44 yeah i guess my theory is all wrong, ah well :D 16:25:49 (also, not MY unwritten, untested ruby) 16:25:49 antifuchs: that's what everyone says ;p 16:25:53 Why haven't anyone mentioned COBOL yet? 16:26:04 loke: thanks 16:26:08 why are you discussing the speed of syntaxes? (: 16:26:10 loke: because noone wanted to go there. except you. 16:26:29 ADD ONE TO X GIVING Y 16:26:31 srsly. less talk, more code 16:26:34 isNumeric is pretty much just a means of determining if a string is a number 16:26:35 how could that not be aweone? 16:26:48 samlander: (every 'digit-char-p str) 16:27:00 dlowe_lt: not enough. 16:27:24 samlander: you'd want to install the PARSE-NUMBER package, and then try to parse it. Then chekck if there was an error. 16:27:25 no minion? :( 16:27:30 fiveop [~fiveop@dslb-178-002-110-160.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:27:36 no can do 16:27:41 loke: that depends, doesn't it 16:27:52 using a bastard version of lisp in iCad 16:27:52 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:53 dlowe_lt: it does. but at the very least you have to check for a leading - 16:28:09 loke: only if you care about negative numbers in that context 16:28:10 also, (numberp (let ((*read-eval* nil)) (read-from-string potential-number))) 16:28:11 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:28:13 http://docs.autodesk.com/ACD/2011/ENU/filesALR/WS1a9193826455f5ff1a32d8d10ebc6b7ccc-6991.htm 16:28:19 that however works a treat, so thank you 16:28:35 dlowe_lt: or floats, or rationals 16:28:43 antifuchs: indeed. 16:28:51 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 16:28:55 or exponential notation 16:29:44 or non-10 bases (: 16:30:34 chturne [~chturne@host86-128-227-166.range86-128.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 16:31:16 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host86-136-238-48.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:31:17 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:52 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 16:32:17 or complex numbers, while we're at it 16:32:19 -!- retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:32:40 retroj [~retroj@unaffiliated/retroj] has joined #lisp 16:32:45 no quaternion notation either :p 16:32:59 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.168] has joined #lisp 16:33:11 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.148.2] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:20 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:33:41 hm 16:33:45 is there casting in lisp? 16:34:03 samlander: not in the C sense. 16:34:32 parse-integer will do 16:34:43 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:34:43 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:34:51 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 16:35:13 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:35:33 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has quit [Client Quit] 16:36:16 Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has joined #lisp 16:36:19 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:36:23 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:54 -!- holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has left #lisp 16:38:49 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-12-72.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:39:34 -!- Cam [~i@trivialand/staff/Cam] has quit [Client Quit] 16:39:43 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:40:22 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:41:03 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:41:26 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:38 -!- jjong [~user@58.225.5.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:43:10 i am using quicklisp to install packages. what is the easiest way to use an alternative version of a particular package, from a different source? 16:44:02 retroj: the easiest way i know of is to unpack it somewhere (e.g. ~/src/project/) and add #p"/home/foo/src/project/" to asdf:*central-registry*. 16:44:03 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:44:14 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:44:16 then (ql:quickload "project") will load it from there instead of from quicklisp. 16:44:22 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 16:44:42 do earlier entries in asdf:*central-registry* shadow later entries? 16:44:47 -!- dlowe_lt [dlowe@nat/google/x-qfuqtbxcravfxvyf] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:44:55 retroj: I think so. it's meant to be pushed into 16:44:57 I think so. 16:45:00 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:45:03 ok, great, thanks 16:45:32 If you've already loaded it from quicklisp, you may need to use (asdf:clear-system "project") first, and there might be further problems. asdf has a bug when a project changes directories. 16:45:43 actually, clear-system should avoid the bug. 16:45:57 does clear-system delete it? 16:46:04 SegFault1X [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:46:10 It makes asdf forget what it knows about the project. 16:46:16 ok, thanks 16:46:33 -!- SegFault1X is now known as SegFault 16:46:34 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 16:46:48 -!- SegFault is now known as SegFaultAX 16:47:06 cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has joined #lisp 16:47:06 hey guys, any way to have read standard io syntax from usocket data ? 16:47:24 holycopralite1 [~ray.still@12.104.144.2] has joined #lisp 16:48:19 manuel_ [~manuel_@p57921CE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:47 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.38.235.120] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:51:19 superflit [~superflit@71-33-159-145.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:31 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 16:54:03 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 16:59:07 dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:07 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:59:16 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has left #lisp 16:59:28 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 16:59:32 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:59:35 morphism: (with-standard-io-syntax ) 17:00:08 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:00:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:28 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 17:00:51 acelent, thanks :D 17:01:03 morphism: what kind of stuff do you want to read? 17:01:35 acelent, I want to read data that was sent from localhost 17:01:45 by socket 17:01:55 ( of cause ) 17:02:14 oops, =.= 17:04:15 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:05:51 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 17:05:58 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 17:06:29 -!- dlowe_lt [~dlowe@50-77-31-237-static.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:06:41 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 17:09:16 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:11:09 -!- cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.97.234] has quit [Read error: 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[~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:21:28 benny [~benny@i577A21A6.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:21:54 cpt-falcon [5ac58a4e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.197.138.78] has joined #lisp 18:22:19 hey guys, i want to learn lisp, but i am a programming beginner, where should i start? 18:23:37 cpt-falcon: http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ is a good book on Common Lisp. 18:23:58 anvandare [~anvandare@78-22-149-154.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 18:24:05 thanks Xach 18:24:10 cpt-falcon: I like http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/LispBook/ as a beginner book. 18:24:45 oh thanks 18:25:08 art_peru [~larion@catv-80-99-206-141.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:25:10 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 18:25:54 I am looking for a more adavanced book on macros. Any suggestions? 18:26:06 holycopralite1: let over lambda, available online, too 18:26:28 http://letoverlambda.com/index.cl/toc 18:26:51 Will take a look. Thanks for the info. 18:27:44 -!- art_peru [~larion@catv-80-99-206-141.catv.broadband.hu] has left #lisp 18:31:35 sellout- [~Adium@216-160-164-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:53 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:47 I'm having a hard time getting this ('foo (n) (+5 n) the ' apparently makes it so REPL doesn't evaluate it right? 18:33:58 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:34:01 anybody know why CommonQt seems to have dropped support for QtWebkit? 18:34:37 insanity99: that snippet makes no sense. what are you trying to do? 18:35:43 retroj, sorry. i mean this 'data mode' '(expt 2 3) 18:35:46 -!- macobo [~Karl@193.40.12.10] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 18:36:01 im not sure what its doing 18:36:32 insanity99: '(expt 2 3) is a quoted list containing the symbol expt, the number 2, and the number 3 18:36:59 whats quoted list mean though? 18:37:06 retroj: not really. 18:37:08 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-uyzyxuiuwnsmllsp] has joined #lisp 18:37:24 '(expt 2 3) is a list of two objects: the symbol QUOTE, and the list (EXPT 2 3). 18:37:30 It evaluates to the latter. 18:38:21 nomurrcy [~user@63.231.17.126] has joined #lisp 18:39:17 so Practical Common Lisp is a good book for someone who has never programed? 18:39:26 Xach: i would say it really is a quoted list, but that is simply thinking about it at a higher abstraction 18:39:36 Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.184.217] has joined #lisp 18:41:14 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:41:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:43:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:43:42 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 18:43:44 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 18:44:28 H4ns_ [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 18:44:54 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:00 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-186-101.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:02 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-186-101.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:45:02 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 18:45:11 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 18:45:25 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:41 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 18:45:46 -!- H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:48:48 -!- insanity99 [~owner@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:01 Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:35 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: When there's nothing left to burn you have to set yourself on fire.] 18:50:47 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-013-021.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:28 gkeith_glaptop__ [gkeith@nat/google/x-vxjxqfysbwzzpfza] has joined #lisp 18:52:03 -!- gkeith_glaptop__ [gkeith@nat/google/x-vxjxqfysbwzzpfza] has quit [Client Quit] 18:52:53 -!- cpt-falcon [5ac58a4e@gateway/web/freenode/ip.90.197.138.78] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 18:53:03 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@c-98-250-107-145.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 18:53:09 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 18:53:25 -!- Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:53:55 lmin23 [~mint@adsl-64-167-103-178.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has joined #lisp 18:53:56 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-220-55.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:11 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:54:18 Hey, can someone explain find-persistent-objects in weblocks? 18:55:07 i don't understand how to filter it (on the database end) 18:55:21 -!- replore_ [~replore@125.2.132.73] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:55:46 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 18:56:51 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:56:51 lmin23: I haven't seen much weblocks discussion here, but the mailing list seems to be active 18:57:32 okay 18:58:25 aha, there's docstrings 18:59:14 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:59:54 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [K-Lined] 18:59:54 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:00:16 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:01:38 X-Scale [email@89-180-208-78.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 19:02:04 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest28643 19:04:04 codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:05:22 -!- nomurrcy [~user@63.231.17.126] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:11:33 gabnet [~gabnet@149.63.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:11:34 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 19:11:52 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-013-021.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:06 -!- lmin23 [~mint@adsl-64-167-103-178.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:14:46 cheezus [~Adium@76.10.183.155] has joined #lisp 19:16:47 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:19:09 Snaffu [~Snaffu@oh-69-34-16-39.sta.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:20:34 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 19:21:00 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:21:10 Blkt [~user@82.84.154.15] has joined #lisp 19:22:20 beginnerman [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 19:22:47 marsell [~marsell@120.22.67.60] has joined #lisp 19:23:10 hey guys, i am learning to program and have chosen scheme because people suggested i read SCIP. but the book doesn't actually tell me what compiler / editor to use? 19:23:59 beginnerman: #scheme might give you advice on that topic 19:24:33 thanks 19:24:57 good evening everyone 19:25:07 fmeyer [~fmeyer@c9518c5d.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 19:25:15 whats the main difference beween common lisp and scheme? 19:25:44 beginnerman: http://codequarterly.com/2011/hal-abelson/ has some interesting context regarding scheme and SICP 19:25:54 two dialects 19:25:56 beginnerman: there are many differences. it's hard to be concise. 19:26:15 they're both lisps 19:26:38 thanks for the link 19:27:52 beginnerman: I've heard people stress that scheme was designed for educational and academic use, where CL is more of a general purpose programming language. 19:28:02 mooo [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:03 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:28:26 scheme is also very practical anymore 19:28:29 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:28:37 beginnerman, I'd recommend looking at the #racket channel. 19:28:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 19:28:47 herbieB [~herbie@u15287329.onlinehome-server.com] has joined #lisp 19:28:49 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:28:54 so maybe learn scheme first, then maybe move on to CL? 19:28:55 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:29:00 thanks 19:29:04 They have a decent beginner's programming environment, and you can get a "plug-in" for it that understands SICP syntax. 19:29:08 beginnerman: If you want to learn CL, it's better to learn CL. 19:29:11 beginnerman: Not necessarily. It depends on what you want to do. 19:29:27 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:29:43 tomaw [tom@freenode/staff/tomaw] has joined #lisp 19:29:48 They're both useful and good. The differences aren't huge, compared with other languages. The best advice is to just choose one and run with it for a while. 19:30:36 goals, well i want to make a game, maybe a rogue-like. 19:30:37 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:30:51 Racket (which is a Scheme variant) has a nice community for beginners, both in their IRC channel and their users mailing list. The Common Lisp equivalents seem more technically deep generally. 19:30:57 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:31:19 nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:50 *akovalenko* fails to see how technical depth is bad for beginners 19:31:51 Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.184.217] has joined #lisp 19:32:30 chicken scheme is another easy one to get into. very practical. 19:32:32 beginnerman: If you are going to practice while reading SICP, then you should probably start with scheme. 19:32:33 akovalenko, he's learning to program, not a programmer learning a new language. A gentle start is reasonable. 19:33:40 back in the day we got dropped in the jungle 2 weeks marchin' from the nearest village with nothing but a pair of shorts, a knife, and a copy of K&R C! 19:33:50 -!- Cloud_ [~cbolano@187.193.184.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:33:52 beginnerman: But read that interview that Xach linked to, because he specifically discusses who that book was designed for. 19:33:56 ChibaPet: aha, then it makes a difference. But I think that CL is not hard as a first language too 19:33:56 beginnerman, anyway, if you want to use SICP, this might be useful to you: http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/ 19:34:38 akovalenko, yeah, I'd be in favour of his learning either as his first language. I wish I could go back and have one of them be my first too. :P Although I guess CL wasn't there early enough for that, but some sort of Lisp was. 19:35:08 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-184-132.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:35:14 ok thanks guys. i'm happy to learn either language as long as i have a good book to read and can make a roguelike eventually :) 19:36:56 Do you have SICP already? 19:37:33 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p57921CE1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:37:41 ChibaPet, yeah i downloaded the pdf 19:38:01 paper is better, it allows you to make notes :p 19:38:07 Ah, if you're using the electronic copy, let me also point you at these: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/HtDP2e/ and http://docs.racket-lang.org/quick/ 19:38:51 (And paper, absolutely useful. At the least make sure you have a notebook handy to write down questions. You'll come back to them later and feel good as you understand what was once baffling.) 19:39:13 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f26e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:39:30 tsuru``` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:35 -!- Cloud [~cbolano@187.193.184.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 19:41:13 -!- tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:41:16 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 19:41:19 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05396.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 19:42:08 hi 19:42:08 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:25 -!- morphism [~Nevermind@123.16.229.185] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:32 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:43:14 ok thanks ChibaPet 19:43:14 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:43:33 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:44:09 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD604.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:44:21 HG` [~HG@p5DC05396.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:44:34 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:45:50 i dont have paper :p but i could always have a notes buffer open on emacs 19:46:54 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:01 while talking racket, is there something like emacs slime for lisp but for racket? 19:47:02 That works. I like the freeform nature of paper, but that's reasonable too. Random note, Emacs Lisp is close enough to Common Lisp that you might enjoy exploring that as well, if you're an Emacs fan. Also, if you go the Common Lisp route, SLIME (Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs) works very well as an IDE. 19:47:36 Well, there's DrRacket, which is a GUI editor with a strong knowledge of the language. I'm not sure how far people have gotten interfacing Racket to Emacs. 19:47:49 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-uyzyxuiuwnsmllsp] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:48:56 Close enough if you take out CLOS, conditions, a configurable reader, packages, bignums, streams, rationals, complex numbers, lexical scope, a standard, an extensible type system, a pretty printer, and structures. 19:49:05 beginnerman: how come you don't have paper? (just curious) 19:49:29 Xach, exactly. Almost indistinguishable. 19:49:48 tsuru```` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:50:00 I'm just saying, he might enjoy it. 19:50:04 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@77.17.51.223.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 19:50:16 prxq, i've had no need of any in quite some time... 19:51:13 -!- Guest28643 [email@89-180-208-78.net.novis.pt] has quit [Quit: Time left until the Epochalypse: 26yrs 16wks 2days 19hrs 22mins 31secs] 19:51:29 -!- tsuru``` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:51:43 ChibaPet: might also get a wrong impression. Or rather, will almost surely get a wrong impression. 19:51:53 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:51:57 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 19:51:58 Oh. Hm. Only fair... Since I listed a couple online Racket texts (and since you already have SICP electronically), beginnerman, you might also enjoy looking at these online texts: http://landoflisp.com/ and http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 19:52:12 Anything can be fun and interesting with enough information to put it in context. 19:52:31 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 19:52:50 It's certainly got enough that he could implement a Rogue inside of Emacs. 19:53:43 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-220-55.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 19:54:00 . 19:54:16 And he could learn from http://www.nongnu.org/nethack-el/ 19:54:30 would it be possible to write an eval macro, that can access variables in scope? I've been trying but failing 19:54:50 let me paste 19:55:12 X-Scale [email@89.180.208.78] has joined #lisp 19:55:39 mooo: No. 19:55:53 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124887 19:55:58 i know it doesn't work 19:56:01 Well, maybe. But if you find yourself wanting that, usually there's a different problem to solve. 19:56:03 no possible at all? 19:56:15 -!- tsuru```` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:56:15 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:56:16 Xach: if we don't want portability, we may query &environment for lexical bindings 19:56:38 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:56:51 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:56:53 Xach: then rebind them lexically around eval'ed form 19:57:20 Yes, very similar to chopping down trees in your way instead of going back to the nicely groomed trail. 19:57:20 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:22 it can't be something as simple as above? to wrap the code in lambda 19:57:31 -!- housel [~user@ip70-187-191-250.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 19:57:38 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:57:43 mooo: How did you find yourself wanting to do that? 19:58:00 i'm just experimenting, don't have any specific problem in mind 19:58:01 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:05 ChibaPet, land of lisp also sounds interesting 19:58:16 It has the game angle. 19:58:17 mooo: evil things are generally hard in CL 19:58:30 why is it evil 19:58:34 mooo: Ok. Then one way to look at things is that that sort of information is not necessarily available at that time, it might have been compiled away. 19:58:39 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 19:58:55 beginnerman, I'm strongly of the opinion that it doesn't matter which of these you choose. Just stick with it and enjoy. 19:58:56 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:00:12 ChibaPet, yeah, since i have SICP and now the compiler may as well read that 20:00:28 Sounds good. Don't forget http://www.neilvandyke.org/racket-sicp/ 20:02:51 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD604.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 20:03:07 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:04:07 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 20:04:47 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-170-138.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:47 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-170-138.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:04:49 y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-165-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:51 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-165-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:54 how would one implement a config file (.lisp) that can be reloaded at runtime (including if i distribute the program as executable)? 20:05:08 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:05:23 im just loading it, not sure if that has any hidden traps 20:05:33 macobo [~Karl@233.24.190.90.dyn.estpak.ee] has joined #lisp 20:05:46 (defun reload-config () (load *config-path*)) 20:05:59 mooo: I'm doing: (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ... (load *config-path*)). 20:06:13 mooo: Not sure, whether that's the proper way, seems to work, though. 20:06:18 For my case. 20:06:31 im not sure what eval-when accomplishes 20:06:43 Whenever you tell it to :) 20:07:47 -!- y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-165-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:08:09 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-165-196.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:00 you are loading the config file once? 20:11:01 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:11:46 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 20:13:37 i am not sure if i should load it, read it, or whatever. for example i can see it potentially breaking if the user defines a function that's used by my program, it'll be overwritten 20:14:54 mooo: set *package* to a package your program is not in 20:15:09 mooo: -user is traditional 20:15:52 you don't have to use eval-when if you're using LOAD inside a function, though 20:16:27 where to set it? 20:16:53 inside config.lisp? would rather if i could do it outside of it 20:17:42 -!- Tordek [tordek@gateway/shell/blinkenshell.org/x-tanuamevvzmfwzik] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:17:47 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 20:20:17 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-37.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:20:39 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33F41.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:21:17 mooo: (let ((*package* (find-package 'my-program-user))) (load "config.lisp")) 20:21:56 though honestly, the idea of lisp files as configuration is kinda bad 20:22:24 why? because they can't be easily analyzed 20:22:39 amazing that that actually, temporarily setting *package* 20:22:46 you sure it does? 20:22:47 dlowe: the idea of lisp *forms* is good, however 20:22:57 akovalenko: sure 20:23:17 i am not sure what you mean "they can't be easily analyzed" 20:23:20 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 20:23:31 mooo: when you use LET with dynamic variables, it binds the variable to the new value only inside the LET form 20:23:33 mooo: halting problem and all that, for instance :) 20:24:02 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05396.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 20:24:24 mooo: if you want to scan your configs to see which one configures the FOO property, it's difficult when your configuration could contain arbitrary code 20:24:57 dlowe i see 20:24:58 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:25:10 but why would you can it instead of just loading it? 20:25:14 and what is a halting problem? 20:25:18 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 20:25:20 though I've seen a nice compromise where the file contains code that returns a config block 20:25:20 sorry for being such a newb :) 20:25:30 rubens` [~user@189.72.55.207] has joined #lisp 20:25:31 mooo: halting problem is googleable 20:25:43 but it can be nice to extend with arbitrary code from a config file, I like .emacs for instance 20:26:03 i meant why would you scan configuration file instead of just loading it 20:26:03 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:05 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 20:26:18 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 20:26:29 dwim_ [~dwim@104.Red-79-156-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:26:30 Vivitron: no one (I hope) is trying to run emacs in a production environment 20:26:32 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:26:32 -!- rubens` [~user@189.72.55.207] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:51 mooo: the people doing the configuration may be different than the people who know lisp code 20:26:51 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:27:02 dlowe: no, but practically everyone is sourcing bits of shell script as config files 20:27:12 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:27:25 tfb: that's pretty sloppy too :) 20:27:51 there are downsides to having configuration files which are themselves computer programs, but in the balance, i still prefer it, because it makes the config a place where you can experiment and develop new features 20:28:25 retroj: that works fine in a small shop setting 20:29:12 works fine if you're developing software for a target audience that likes that kind of flexibility.. which is what i do 20:29:13 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-37.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:29:28 dlowe: don't about a million people have emacs and swank running their production servers? 20:29:39 (I may have a slight overestimate there) 20:29:40 lispy config files are such a huge step up from what actually is done now (I am serious about the shell script ting) 20:29:57 tfb: well, I can sympathize with the sysadmin's need for duct tape 20:30:02 -!- dwim [~dwim@104.Red-79-156-39.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:30:10 but that doesn't mean it should be encouraged, either 20:30:11 -!- CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:30:37 this isn't sysadmins, this is vendors. Shell script fragments as config files. on every machine, as root 20:30:48 freeone3000 [~James@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has joined #lisp 20:30:52 CallToPower [~CallToPow@s15229144.onlinehome-server.info] has joined #lisp 20:30:54 tfb: just as shell scripts were a huge step over m4 (-; 20:31:01 if i want, for simplicity reasons, a full-fledged .lisp source as config, is this good enough? (defun load-config () (let ((*package* (find-package 'my-program-user))) (load "config.lisp"))) 20:31:35 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:31:46 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 20:31:54 mooo: you might also want to set *readtable* to something that you can control 20:32:17 mooo: and you'll need to actually create the 'my-program-user package 20:32:26 mooo: consider using #. syntax in data-only configs while you're hacking 20:32:33 I have http://paste.lisp.org/display/124888 . Now, unlispy as it is, why does line 8 not show output until after the user has entered input? 20:32:47 how would data only-config look like? 20:32:53 freeone3000: line-buffered output 20:32:55 freeone3000: try adding (force-output) 20:32:59 freeone3000: didn't look but force-output will do 20:33:06 freeone3000: force-output after the print should do it (: 20:33:31 freeone3000: just in case there was any confusion, you should use force-output 20:33:38 mooo: it's just a lisp *form* that you put into a config file, but not a lisp /program/ 20:33:59 Thanks. 20:34:11 akovalenko: that's a pretty good idea, actually. best of both 20:34:17 mooo: like (:my-application-config (:crash-randomly nil) ) 20:34:22 -!- beginnerman [~sogeking9@5ac58a4e.bb.sky.com] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:34:31 akovalenko: no need to use keyword args 20:34:48 mooo: then while you're hacking with *read-eval* set to true, you may use: 20:35:16 mooo: (:my-application-config (:crash-randomly #.(i-hate-this-user-p))) 20:35:58 and to fetch data i do (getf (read file) :my-application-config) ? 20:36:22 akovalenko: (hosts #.(loop for idx from 1 upto 5 collect (format nil "myhost%d" idx))) 20:36:36 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:37:26 mooo: for this kind of data it's (getf (cdr (read ...)) :crash-randomly) 20:37:53 yes? not seeing why cdr 20:38:07 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-37.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:38:11 it's a keyworded list no 20:38:14 mooo: cdr because of lone :my-application-config thingie. but of course you're free to use any structure you like, like alist 20:38:23 -!- freeone3000 [~James@Syncleus/dev/freeone3000] has left #lisp 20:38:49 yes 20:39:01 mooo: in my example, it's a plist with an additional symbol from the start 20:39:17 mooo: hence its cdr is a normal plist 20:39:29 but wouldn't this work? (getf (getf (read ..) :my-application-config) :crash-randomly) 20:39:45 mooo: btw, (apply (lambda (&key crash-randomly &allow-other-keys)) (read ...)) may be useful 20:39:51 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-41-208-216-37.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:40:04 mooo: nested getfs will work if you have nested lists 20:40:15 pnq [~nick@AC8111E3.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:40:22 mooo: like (:my-app (:crash-randomly nil :work-well t)) 20:40:31 mooo: note the extra level of ()'s 20:41:11 but that has the same number of parenthesis as your above example 20:41:35 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-3-115.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:41:41 mooo: oh, it's just a "thinko", sorry 20:42:00 mooo: then it should be SECOND, not CDR 20:42:00 ok :). I thought i was losing my mind 20:42:23 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 20:42:48 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-iygsrwaafxajrgvg] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:07 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 20:43:36 this seems like a good idea for config 20:43:37 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:43:55 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 20:44:26 btw im still not getting why (eval-when (:compile-toplevel :load-toplevel :execute) ... (load *config-path*)) was needed. what difference does that make from (load *config-path*) alone at top level 20:44:32 just curious 20:45:12 as a normal user, there's no chroot 20:45:12 that set of eval-when conditions will also load the config file when compiling the file that the eval-when form is in 20:45:15 agh 20:45:19 sorry bout that 20:45:43 otherwise, the config will only be loaded when loading that file 20:45:51 i see 20:45:54 it's subtle. sometimes you might want it this way, some other times that (: 20:46:12 I'm not even sure when the file is compiled and when loaded 20:46:23 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:46:32 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:46:40 (load "file") loads it I suppose. what compiles it? 20:46:47 -!- sellout- [~Adium@216-160-164-191.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:47:14 ok - you refer to this "it", I refer to that "it" (: 20:47:47 :O 20:48:46 lisp systems are usually built (and loaded into an image) by compiling their files and loading their .fasl files - it's either compile-load-compile-load-compile-load, or load-load-load-load (if these files have all been compiled once already and they're up-to-date) 20:48:57 (at least that's how asdf does it, which is the recommended system construction thing nowadays) 20:49:04 i see 20:49:22 so, if you have that (load *config-path*) form in a source file, the config will only be loaded when the source file gets loaded, not when it gets compiled 20:49:41 it wouldn't get loaded when i load my asdf system? 20:50:10 oh yes, it will. but only when that source file is loaded, not when it gets compiled 20:50:34 so in practice, where is the difference? when would one load it and another wouldnt 20:51:05 exactly. it depends on what your intentions are - should the config be able to influence how the source file that loads it gets compiled? 20:51:28 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 20:51:49 also, should the config have an effect on the load process for the library at all? I'm not sure it's such a good idea to unconditionally load a config when loading the sources, anyway (: 20:51:56 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75f26e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:52:07 (better to hook into the application startup if you load a config) 20:53:03 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:53:12 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 20:54:48 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 20:55:38 -!- dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has left #lisp 20:56:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-186-224.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:56:28 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:56:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:58 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 20:57:54 H4ns [41173d62@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.23.61.98] has joined #lisp 20:57:55 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:27 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:58:29 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 20:59:24 ok i get it now 20:59:34 thanks! back to coding 20:59:39 Hello Dragons! 21:00:26 anyone know of any systems which make use of klacks:make-tapping-source / klacks:tapping-source ? 21:01:00 -!- dwim_ is now known as dwim 21:01:19 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@149.63.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:01:24 I'm having trouble getting my head around how these are supposed to work in conjunction with sax:foo 21:02:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:03:36 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:06:51 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-3-115.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:07:47 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.75.65] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:07:48 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:13 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:11:28 -!- iwillig [~ivan@dyn-128-59-151-161.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:11:28 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:12:00 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 21:13:55 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:14:17 mon_key: (klacks:make-tapping-source mon_key: what's sax:foo? 21:17:15 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-3-115.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 21:17:53 acelent: So, (klacks:make-tapping-source (make-instance 'my-handler)) 21:18:43 and the established methods on the class my-handler will see what exactly? 21:21:14 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 21:21:17 -!- BrokenCog [~danielj@adsl-065-081-078-141.sip.pns.bellsouth.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:21:24 mon_key: start-element calls, content calls, end-element calls, start/end-document calls if there are document events yet in the klacks source. my guess, haven't really tried, but it should do this as you fetch tokens from a klacks source 21:21:57 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-3-115.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:22:06 klltkr [~klltkr@dsl78-143-205-208.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 21:23:11 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:23:57 i have something in my .sbclrc that i no longer remember what it is for. what is this used for in asdf:*central-registry*? '(DIRECTORY-NAMESTRING *DEFAULT-PATHNAME-DEFAULTS*) 21:24:57 mon_key: a sax handler will typically push content in a slot as events are invoked, so by the time you've exhausted the klacks source, the sax handler should have it's result available 21:25:05 acelent: Ok. So each time i consume an event from klacks the sax-handler will get to see it? 21:25:05 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:14 mon_key: yes 21:25:27 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:25:36 -!- Blkt [~user@82.84.154.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:25:41 gaidal [~gaidal@61.144.106.56] has joined #lisp 21:27:03 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-216-155-214-070.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 256 seconds] 21:27:08 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:08 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:27:08 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 21:27:17 acelent: Ok. sorry for the pedantry. But, does skipping over an event from the klacks side prevent the sax handler from seeing the event? 21:27:54 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:28:02 mon_key: at least, there's quite a parallel between http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/klacks.html (search for KLACKS:PEEK) and http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/sax.html#sax 21:28:05 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:47 retroj: maybe you were using directory-namestring to normalize your #P"pathname" to a form the OS wanted to see. 21:28:53 mon_key: no. skipping in klacks simply means you don't want toknes, so it doesn't instance them 21:29:48 acelent: thanks for your help 21:29:49 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 21:29:58 i think i remember now that this lets asdf:oos look in the current directory to load a system 21:30:35 however, i might have put that there before asdf supported using pathnames directly, hence the need for directory-namestring 21:33:36 retroj: directory-namestring strips the device (drive) in windows 21:33:36 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:37:40 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:38:49 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:51 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:40:32 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:40:33 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:40:43 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-3-115.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 21:45:05 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-3-115.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:47:10 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:13 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:00:35 -!- zmv [~daniel@201.83.51.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:02:19 -!- cvandusen [~user@68-90-30-246.ded.swbell.net] has quit [Quit: Yow! 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