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01:04:58 what is lisp.net? 01:06:35 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:08:24 chturne [~chturne@2.28.96.77] has joined #lisp 01:08:53 well, writing in lisp for the .NET framework? 01:09:07 i'm googling, it seems lisp is too powerful to map 1:1 01:09:14 in that case 01:09:25 can you write native windows binaries with cl? 01:11:02 you can use clozure or corman cl and bind to windows libraries. or allegro 01:11:50 ccl, yeah, sbcl says "port in progress" .. i thought a lot of the crowdfund stuff was going toward a windows port 01:12:24 clisp can create stand alone executable too 01:13:30 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.135.6] has joined #lisp 01:13:37 could you create cross platform binaries, say, with Qt or GTK+? 01:13:49 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-185.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:51 or rather, create a cross platform build? 01:14:03 not afaik 01:14:24 plus the ffi for the C libraries would differ based on platform, arch, format 01:14:28 there are Qt and GTK bindings, I'm not sure how well they work on windows 01:14:32 so you could do is with C but not CL? 01:14:39 *it 01:14:50 you can't do a cross-platform build with C like that :p 01:14:53 allegro and lispworks have toolkits that should allow you to build for different platforms out of the same code base. 01:14:59 -!- _srid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:15:08 fade: okay :D 01:15:09 unless you're asking "can i write code that is cross-plaform," in which case, yes 01:15:15 pcavs [~Adium@pool-96-233-29-135.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:16 that's what i'm asking. 01:15:24 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-189-181.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:15:29 i know that the same elf/exe binary wont work cross platform 01:16:00 my experience is that 'one interface for all platforms' generally delivers mediocre experience in the best case, and in the normative one, it delivers a bad one. 01:16:10 fairly 01:16:54 qt probably works well there though, but i haven't used it outside X 01:18:06 dnolen [~davidnole@12.130.124.4] has joined #lisp 01:19:24 renesis [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:27 hi 01:19:38 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@47.sub-75-251-205.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:19:51 when performing an operation on every element in a list would one generally use mapcar and lambda? 01:20:43 renesis: it depends on the operation and what you want from it 01:20:49 (mapcar (lambda (x) (print x)) '(1 2 3)) ? 01:20:54 coyo: ecl also supports windows and compiles to C, so you could also freely mix C and CL 01:20:57 if you don't care about the side-effects you should use `mapc' 01:21:10 -!- pcavs [~Adium@pool-96-233-29-135.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:21:10 hmm. 01:21:12 (mapc 'print '(1 2 3)) 01:21:13 *kpreid* prefers map nil 01:21:13 http://www.lispworks.com/products/lww_USLetter.pdf shiny. 01:21:21 renesis: that would be (map #'print '(1 2 3)) 01:21:22 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:21:24 *mapc 01:23:02 fade: so you would advice against using something like GTK+ or Qt to provide a uniform experience? 01:23:13 *advise 01:23:30 you'd say write seperate projects for each platform? 01:24:58 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@47.sub-75-251-205.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:24:58 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:56 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.135.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:26:11 ok thanks. and if it was something more complex you'd use mapc and lambda? 01:26:11 . 01:26:11 -!- renesis [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Client Quit] 01:26:12 Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@139.sub-75-224-21.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:12 -!- sunscreen [~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:26:12 renesis2 [~redmundia@84.122.73.141.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 01:26:12 ok thanks. and if it was something more complex one would usually use mapc and lambda? 01:26:43 -!- dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:27:06 dcrawford [~dcrawford@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 01:27:12 marsell [~marsell@120.22.59.164] has joined #lisp 01:27:24 Demosthenes [~demo@mf54036d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 01:27:35 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:37 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 01:28:59 sunscreen [~sunscreen@host109-150-95-84.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 01:28:59 -!- sunscreen [~sunscreen@host109-150-95-84.range109-150.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:28:59 sunscreen [~sunscreen@unaffiliated/factor45] has joined #lisp 01:29:02 coyo: well, if you want to deploy on windows and the various unix systems, then something like gtk+ or qt or tk are your choices. 01:29:18 I just meant that a 'uniform' experience is rarely satisfying to the users of software. 01:29:34 the idioms for the different operating systems are pretty different. 01:29:42 Fade: ah. 01:30:02 something that works well on windows, is going to drive a MacOSX user to drink. 01:30:12 like wise *nix vis a vis the other two 01:30:24 Fade: since i want to support mac os x, linux, freebsd, solaris, in addition to win7, you'd suggest i develop for each platform independantly? 01:30:41 well, not the functionality, but the UI 01:30:45 ah. 01:30:58 so seperate the back end from the front end? 01:31:06 if you don't have the time/resources for that, then design for the Mac; the other two will eat the difference if the software is good. :) 01:31:16 that's always a good idea regardless. 01:31:34 hmm. Mac OS X does have a very shiny GUI interface 01:31:53 more to the point, it's UIs tend to be quite light/minimal. 01:32:00 i see. 01:32:01 outside the terrain of the Adobe suite. 01:32:14 thwap to me. s/it\'s/its 01:32:16 ew adobe 01:33:14 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.103.249] has joined #lisp 01:33:38 but i can, in fact use lisp for this? i'm intending to write an implimentation of instant messaging client/server and i want the user interface to be very very good. 01:33:51 of course. 01:33:55 pcavs [~Adium@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:34:12 if you're planning on targeting windows, you'd probably be well served by the cost of an Allegro or Lispworks license. 01:34:15 thank you, Fade 01:34:31 otherwise, use Clozure CL. 01:34:34 Lispworks does look nice, but i'll take a look at Allegro 01:35:02 I think the runtime license terms are better for Lispworks, but I admit that I have never used either system very much. 01:35:09 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 01:35:34 lispworks does have pretty slick crossplatform UI library. http://www.lispworks.com/products/capi.html 01:35:43 yeah 01:35:52 CAPI was specifically the component I was thinking about. 01:36:37 -!- Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@139.sub-75-224-21.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:36:59 Springheeled-J [~Spring-he@226.sub-75-253-80.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:37:03 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC93DE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:21 Clozure CL has a very nice bridge to objectiveC which exposes the mac's gfx toolkit. 01:37:29 but that's not portable. 01:37:29 -!- timack [~timack@hlfx56-2b-18.ns.sympatico.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:38:32 hmm. 01:38:37 -!- zmv [~daniel@c9533508.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:39:29 commonQT may be a way forward, also. 01:39:48 if you're just getting into lisp experiment a bit and find out what feels good to you. 01:40:45 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:23 _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has joined #lisp 01:41:29 -!- H4ns [~user@212.185.233.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:42:45 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:44:47 -!- Springheeled-J is now known as SpringheeledJake 01:44:54 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 01:44:54 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 01:46:25 Fade: thank you very much. 01:46:27 <3 01:48:35 :) 01:55:48 -!- phadthai_ is now known as phadthai 01:55:58 topo_ [~topo@f053033197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 01:58:02 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:59:21 -!- topo [~topo@f053033197.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:59:21 -!- topo_ is now known as topo 02:00:10 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has quit [Quit: Chateando desde http://webchat.redmundial.org (EOF)] 02:24:23 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:34:01 msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has joined #lisp 02:34:30 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@12.130.124.4] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:35:14 -!- StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:35:25 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.59.164] has quit [Quit: marsell] 02:37:58 StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has joined #lisp 02:41:01 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@226.sub-75-253-80.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:42:51 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@190.sub-75-202-80.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:44:35 _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has joined #lisp 02:44:59 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 02:45:38 -!- _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:46:21 _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has joined #lisp 02:48:50 -!- _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:49:20 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.7] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:49:57 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.7] has joined #lisp 02:50:30 _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has joined #lisp 02:53:49 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:56:54 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:57:36 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:58:05 -!- _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:58:48 Cam [~i@unaffiliated/cam] has joined #lisp 02:58:58 Hi.... I am new to lisp, what is wrong with http://pastie.org/private/x4sz1fjvkvrj4323lyuq ? 02:59:38 _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:34 You meant ((= 1 (length inList))...), probably? 03:00:43 Oh yeah.... thanks :3 03:01:18 Will that work? 03:01:25 Oh yay! 03:01:59 congrats 03:02:03 -!- _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:02:05 thanks. 03:04:56 _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:15 -!- _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:06:47 ls 03:08:01 _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:09 guther [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-siyblgbphysumvac] has joined #lisp 03:09:48 -!- SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:12:19 -!- Cam [~i@unaffiliated/cam] has quit [Quit: bbl] 03:13:22 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:15:41 -!- _srid [~altsrid@151.183.119.66.static.metrobridge.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:22:38 more lispy classic gaming style: http://vimeo.com/29355260 03:23:11 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:25:49 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:23 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:36:37 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32263.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:15 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5B326A05.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:54 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 03:40:16 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:43:20 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.7] has joined #lisp 03:43:48 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:44:30 -!- elliottcable is now known as ejlkllimontotp 03:45:20 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.247.103.249] has joined #lisp 03:45:37 I wonder if Cam is new to programming too. 03:46:37 It looks like lisp has some kind of strange power that paralyze the brains of some people. They would write 1==length(inList) in any other programming language, but for some strange reason, they have to write (length inList 1) in lisp... 03:47:37 kami``` [~user@p57A2F31C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:11 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 03:48:26 (defun length= (sequence length) (= length (length sequence))) heh 03:49:50 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:50:41 phadthai: sb-int:proper-list-of-length-p. 03:50:53 Or alexandria:length= 03:51:07 heh 03:51:18 -!- kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:54:00 -!- ejlkllimontotp is now known as elliottcable 03:56:09 dto: nice 03:56:10 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:59:28 dnolen_ [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:04:57 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 04:04:57 -!- jrockway_ 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sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 248 seconds] 04:59:07 doesthiswork [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 04:59:55 -!- ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:00:15 (loop for i across array do (setf i (random 5))) 05:00:25 obvously that wont work 05:02:05 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:02:20 ski_ [~slj@c83-254-21-112.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 05:03:24 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 05:03:34 but is there a better way than (dotimes (i (length array)) (setf (aref a i) (random 5)) ? 05:05:22 -!- msponge [~msponge@18.189.103.48] has quit [Quit: msponge] 05:08:10 doesthiswork: (loop with len = (length array) for i from 0 below len do (setf i (random 5))) 05:08:32 not sure if it's "better" but it's an alternative 05:08:53 it is educational 05:09:39 hmm I don't totally remember without checking the hyperspec but perhaps check for something like map-into also 05:12:46 gcentaur1 [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 05:12:54 doesthiswork: err that should have been (setf (aref array i) (random 5)) of course 05:13:01 thank you 05:13:10 I was about to say it wasn't working 05:15:24 another alternative is to drop the old array and to create a new one with the wanted length and contents, in which case there are also a few ways to do it 05:16:02 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 05:16:05 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:16:11 i.e. push-vector or push-vector-extend could be used on the new array 05:17:00 with an existing array, if it has a fill pointer, it's also possible to reset its fill pointer to zero and use push-vector of course 05:17:11 I'm actually only resetting a very few of the elements so there is no point in creating a new array 05:17:22 ok 05:18:02 a friend asked to see the program which is why I'm thinking about how to make it more readable 05:18:41 if you want you could abstract your loop in a function, especially if it would be used more than once 05:18:46 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:19:09 only used once 05:19:45 well the function it is in used quite often 05:20:10 but it is the main body of the function 05:20:29 ok that sounds pretty clean to me already 05:24:53 the map-into would be awkward imo, as you'd have a lambda function with an ignored argument 05:25:41 (map-into a #'(lambda (o) (declare (ignore o)) (random 5)) a) 05:27:30 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 05:33:28 I like that one 05:34:08 why not (map-into a #'(lambda () (random 5)))? 05:34:20 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:34:59 too many arguments passed to anonymous function 05:35:11 Strange, it works for me 05:35:18 [185]> (map-into a #'(lambda () (random 5))) 05:35:18 #(3 1 3 1) 05:35:30 map-into passes the element under the pointer to it 05:35:52 hmm maybe an extension, I should check the hyperspec to see if it's required :) 05:36:02 http://www.ai.mit.edu/projects/iiip/doc/CommonLISP/HyperSpec/Body/fun_map-into.html 05:36:18 > map-into result-sequence function &rest sequences 05:36:23 It seems to be optional 05:36:37 the second one doesn't work for me 05:36:44 too many arguments 05:36:51 function---a designator for a function of as many arguments as there are sequences. 05:37:05 Hm, strange 05:37:39 I'm using clozure CL 05:38:03 I'm using GNU CLISP 2.44.1 (2008-02-23) 05:38:18 ECL here 05:38:30 it could be a CLISP extension 05:39:46 well it worked with SBCL too :) 05:40:06 Well :) 05:40:34 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:43:31 -!- leo2007 [~leo@123.114.32.161] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 05:43:47 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-137-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:14 in the original proposition to add it: 05:44:16 "The function must take at least as many arguments as there are 05:44:17 sequences provided." 05:44:39 (issue 239) 05:45:10 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.34] has joined #lisp 05:45:45 doesthiswork: oh btw the last argument can be ommited to map-into, the redundant a 05:46:04 Iceland_jack: this is where it works, I guess (trying again) 05:46:11 works :) 05:46:43 well that's what Iceland_jack had suggested, I still had an extra a :) 05:46:51 so he's right 05:46:53 haha, Common Lisp is fickle I suppose 05:48:14 interesting that we both had the extra a, unless Clozure CL at least requires one sequence 05:48:54 Iceland_jack: well thanks, as I learned something new :) 05:49:30 Don't thank me, I didn't even know `map-into' existed until half an hour ago! 05:52:39 heh at the end of issue 239, one of the listed advantages: "User programs won't have to write the above examples as or something else about equally horrible." 05:59:48 evening y'all 06:04:05 -!- ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:15:02 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.60.41] has joined #lisp 06:15:40 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-naepxaepqegvejfg] has joined #lisp 06:23:12 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:33:33 -!- pcavs [~Adium@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:43:06 -!- SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:50:04 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.9] has joined #lisp 06:51:08 Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-124.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:51:26 -!- Harag [~Harag@wbs-41-208-201-124.wbs.co.za] has left #lisp 06:53:53 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:01:02 -!- cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 07:01:08 cods [~cods@tuxee.net] has joined #lisp 07:03:15 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has 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-!- Guest87750 is now known as pjb` 08:54:06 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 08:58:15 lisplearner [~lisplearn@ip68-5-4-32.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:58:44 -!- Guest55279 is now known as kushal 08:58:52 -!- kushal [kdas@nat/redhat/x-iciflxjiwyzhtnjd] has quit [Changing host] 08:58:52 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:59:04 could use some help with this :) 08:59:04 http://nopaste.info/3dbaea4ce4.html 08:59:20 http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp ; is prefered... 08:59:34 will use for future reference 08:59:52 What's your problem? 08:59:59 it won't load 09:00:02 let me copy the error 09:00:16 You've got wrong parentheses. 09:00:18 Error: Unexpected end of #. 09:00:31 Each clause in the cond should be an independent list. 09:01:00 You'd have a better time if you used emacs with paredit to edit your lisp code. 09:01:30 yeah I was having trouble getting it working correctly so I'm just using a basic text editor for now 09:01:42 No, use emacs and paredit. 09:02:09 Can hunchentoot's error page be customized? 09:02:16 lisplearner: 'nother vote for paredit, it's amazing 09:02:18 Ralith: yes, you have the sources. 09:02:20 what did you mean by "wrong parenthesis? 09:02:27 Each clause in the cond should be an independent list. 09:02:29 I have too many? or what 09:02:31 pjb: does there exist an interface for it, though? :P 09:02:38 lisplearner: they're just all wrong. 09:02:42 Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-203-235.uio.no] has joined #lisp 09:02:46 having a bit of trouble digging it out in the code 09:02:48 Ralith: I don't know. Read the manual? 09:02:59 the manual doesn't say, and is incorrect/outdated in other regards too 09:03:07 which is why I asked here instead 09:04:59 lisplearner: Empty strings are not symbols, therefore they cannot be null. 09:05:06 (only the nil symbol is null). 09:05:50 If you expected a string, you should test (stringp s), not (listp s)... Or vice versa, if you expect a list, you should not speak of strings. 09:05:56 so you're saying I shouldn't check for a null string 09:06:12 lisplearner: strings and lists are not the same thing. 09:06:25 ok I understand 09:06:31 let me change my terminology 09:06:34 I want lists though 09:06:34 :) 09:06:43 Since your function has no docstring explaining what it expects as parameter, and what it does, we can't know what you want. Your comments are contradictory with your code. 09:07:03 sorry 09:07:21 trying to check to see if the atom, Z is contained in the list S 09:07:27 recursively 09:07:27 ok. 09:07:35 Why do you mind if it is an atom? 09:08:11 (By the way, the classic name for this function is MEMBER). 09:08:11 I guess it's redundant, but it's an assignment and they are specifying that we are looking for an 'atom' 09:08:18 I guess to be meticulous to the wording of the assignment 09:08:27 checking that the token/Z is even an atom 09:08:40 this one apparently differs from members 09:08:42 member* 09:08:49 let me paste this 09:08:52 You could use check-type. But you could just losen the specification, and just test for anything in the list, using eql. 09:09:23 Note that PRESENTP differs from MEMBER function, in that 09:09:37 MEMBER looks only for top-level instance. 09:09:47 For example, (PRESENTP a a) returns T, 09:10:00 (PRESENTP a (b a c)) returns T, (PRESENTP 09:10:08 a (k (g c a) h)) returns T, and (PRESENTP 09:10:14 you get the idea 09:10:41 ok. So it searches in sublists too. 09:10:45 yes 09:10:51 all characters 09:10:57 No character. 09:11:09 I'm a C/C++/Java coder so text parsing is a bit weird for me right now 09:11:10 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 09:11:10 looks a bit like member over flatten to me 09:11:14 it's different that's for sure 09:11:19 In the example you give, you have symbols. Characters are written as #\a 09:11:19 flip214: ++ 09:11:42 lisplearner: this is not text parsing, this is symbolic expression (or sexp) processing. 09:11:46 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:11:57 -!- chturne_ [~chturne@2.28.96.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:36 udzinari [user@nat/ibm/x-ricebydsunvehcdg] has joined #lisp 09:12:38 ok 09:13:00 Have a look at: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124749 09:13:13 emacs indents the code automatically, so it's obvious what your problems are. 09:13:22 (I had to add the last line). 09:13:47 paredit automatically close the parentheses when you open one, so you never have parenthesis imbalance with it. 09:15:13 checking it over 09:15:26 the scope of that and line confuses me haha 09:15:38 it's part of the not above it 09:16:14 Yep. You forgot a close parenthesis on the (not (listp s) <-- line 09:16:38 oh ok so that's just how it auto formatted the code I had? 09:16:40 Again, paredit automatically closes the parentheses for you so you don't have to care about it. Just install and use emacs and paredit. 09:16:46 Yep. 09:16:53 ok right on :) 09:16:57 that's a major help 09:17:07 http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ParEdit 09:23:21 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:28:23 lisplearner: when you're done, check my solution http://paste.lisp.org/display/124749#1 09:28:27 why is it needed to tell lisp to not evaluate stuff in macro expressions? Wouldn't the compiler be able to figure that out itself due to the argument list? 09:29:02 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:29:08 Tasser: I don't know what you mean. But basically, check the difference with: (list (+ 1 2) '(+ 1 2)) 09:29:47 chturne_ [~chturne@2.28.96.62] has joined #lisp 09:31:34 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:31:52 pjb: if you care, the anwer to my question was 'put something that retuns html in *http-error-handler*' 09:33:17 ahinki_ [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has joined #lisp 09:34:08 pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:36:07 -!- SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:36:23 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:36:25 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 09:36:27 -!- ahinki_ is now known as ahinki 09:36:41 nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has joined #lisp 09:37:16 -!- pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:39:12 -!- lisplearner [~lisplearn@ip68-5-4-32.oc.oc.cox.net] has quit [Quit: IRC webchat at http://irc2go.com/] 09:39:35 lisplearner [~lisplearn@ip68-5-4-32.oc.oc.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:39:45 why is this not a valid function? 09:39:47 (and (atom (car S)) (eql Z (car S))) 09:41:05 misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has joined #lisp 09:42:12 lisplearner: I don't know, why? 09:43:13 lisplearner: is this your whole function or is this wrapped in a defun/lambda? paste it http://paste.lisp.org 09:44:04 pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:12 lisplearner: is this it? http://paste.lisp.org/+2O99 09:44:54 clhs cond 09:45:33 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_cond.htm#cond 09:45:47 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:45:48 lisplearner: your syntax is wrong. cond's clauses are not recursive 09:50:49 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:51:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:52:14 lisplearner: what editor are you using for lisp? 09:53:53 -!- pjb_ [~pjb@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: from my iPad] 09:53:56 lisplearner: it seems you're having a hard time with parentheses and indentation 09:55:49 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:57:52 ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:58:18 -!- ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:58:36 ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 09:59:29 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:01:45 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124750#1 10:01:53 there's my code pasted up 10:01:57 with the statement in question 10:03:52 jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-122-110.wbs.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:04:28 you're still at it 10:04:43 what editor are you using? 10:04:55 (or rather torturing yourself with?) 10:06:35 you're going to hate me cause I'm still using text pad haha 10:06:59 no, it's not me who's hating you. it's yourself. 10:07:13 yes 10:07:19 I did count the parenthesis 10:07:24 no you did not 10:07:26 from my understanding of the logic 10:07:33 ok 10:07:36 I'll look some more 10:07:37 haha 10:08:28 lisplearner: you need to use an editor that supports lisp. 10:08:46 what you're attempting is comparable to trying to edit a binary with notepad. 10:08:56 ok so I'm in emacs 10:09:04 now I just need to get it working with lisp 10:09:29 Easy 10:09:41 DON'T download slime 10:09:54 open a terminal, and get quicklisp 10:10:03 then get slime via quicklisp. 10:10:29 what's a terminal? 10:10:34 (ok, joking) 10:10:42 :) 10:11:06 does quicklisp's slime include paredit? 10:11:27 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@2.148.2.148.tmi.telenormobil.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:11:36 Nope. 10:11:56 Ralith: which slime does include paredit? 10:12:03 none 10:12:06 ^ 10:12:10 -!- StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:12:15 StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has joined #lisp 10:12:18 it would be handy for quicklisp to install everything in one go though 10:12:22 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 10:12:44 Ralith: Hmm... it could be handy especially for people new to lisp. 10:12:55 lisplearner: are you on windows? 10:13:04 you guys are going to call me a baby for this... I just want something with a nice clean/simple installer with lisp and all the appropriate libraries included... at least for basic stuff :( 10:13:12 again I come from c++/java land where that's more common 10:13:18 lisplearner: if you're on windows, there is one. 10:13:21 you definately want quicklisp 10:13:31 ok but the file it gives me 10:13:33 is a .lisp 10:13:39 so do I run that out of the console? 10:13:41 to get into the editor? 10:13:42 or what 10:13:43 haha 10:13:46 lisplearner: what is your operating system? 10:13:51 Athas` [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:13:51 win xp 10:13:56 stand by 10:14:00 lose xp it's called 10:14:05 lisplearner: http://lispcabinet.sourceforge.net/ 10:14:09 all-in-one installer 10:14:40 I don't recall if it includes paredit or not, but it's a hell of a lot better than what you're using now regardless 10:14:42 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@1x-193-157-203-235.uio.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:44 sorry ql is for the libraries only, but it can install slime for emacs which is an excellent lisp editing environment 10:14:45 add^_ [~add^_^@h154n5c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has joined #lisp 10:14:56 Vivitron: but it can't configure emacs, which can be annoying on win32 10:15:22 ah! I was unaware of that 10:15:42 yes this is the problem 10:15:44 configuring emacs 10:15:48 -!- Athas [~athas@fw.math.ku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:16:30 lisplearner: do you like vim more than emacs? there's slimv, a slime equivalent for vim. The developer uses windows, too, so it should run fine. 10:16:34 lisplearner: follow the link I gave you. 10:16:36 flip214: he's on windows. 10:16:45 he probably doesn't use either of them. 10:16:51 Ralith: and? there's a vim for windows, too! 10:16:59 there's a linux for windows! 10:17:02 I doubt he uses that either. 10:17:31 I'm all new to lisp 10:17:46 lisplearner: Ralith gave you the best advice. 10:17:49 -!- Athas` is now known as Athas 10:18:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:18:14 Vim is great, but 99.99% of us here use Emacs. 10:18:30 lisplearner: Lisp Cabinet will set you up with a pre-configured emacs and lisp system that will Just Work. 10:18:31 tztz ... the blinkers ... 10:18:49 so it's directing me to this page 10:18:50 http://www.ourcomments.org/cgi-bin/emacsw32-dl-latest.pl 10:18:54 to download emacs 10:19:00 lisplearner: no, it's not. 10:19:00 but that seems like what I already did 10:19:08 ok where is the download I awnt 10:19:10 XD 10:19:14 it's leading me in circles 10:19:20 it's literally the third link on the page. 10:19:22 on the first line. 10:19:27 jtza8: strictly speaking you're wrong - 99.99% of ~340 people won't do, as at least I'm using vim 10:19:28 labeled "Download network installer" 10:19:55 lisplearner: http://sourceforge.net/projects/lispcabinet/files/Lisp%20Cabinet%200.1.5/Packages/LispCabinet-EmacsW32-0.1.5.7z/download 10:20:18 perfect 10:20:20 thank you 10:20:34 no problem! 10:20:38 sorry if I'm blind and just didn't see it :X 10:20:44 it happens sometimes 10:20:50 flip214: Yes, I suppose you're right, I'd like to see better support for Vim too. :) 10:20:53 doesn't come with paredit, but it'll get you started comfortably. 10:21:02 better than textpad ;) 10:21:02 flip214: suggesting vim as an editor to novices is not a good advice, imo 10:21:15 flip214: for lisp development, that is 10:21:20 lisplearner: Waaay beter. 10:21:57 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 10:22:16 lisplearner: fyi, paredit is an emacs extension that allows you to structurally manipulate lisp code, and will make it extremely hard to mess up your parenthesis. 10:23:02 jdz, jtza8: for people using notepad and so on a modal editor might be the wrong thing ... but for people that are used to vi(m) slimv is very nice. especially the current development version ... 10:23:32 let me tell you, in a few months you'll all be begging to be allowed to use vim ... ;) 10:23:46 lisplearner: it's very powerful and a must-have for serious development, but emacs alone is smart enough to match parenthesis; you'll notice that when you type a ), the matching ( will be momentarily hilighted. You can also type Ctrl-Alt-B to jump to the ( corresponding to the ) behind the cursor, and vis versa. 10:24:09 er 10:24:13 Ctrl-Alt-F for the vis versa. 10:24:19 (for 'back'/'forward') 10:25:56 flip214: been there, done that, not going back in this lifetime. 10:26:00 anyone got a good slime tutorial/screencast to link this guy? 10:26:11 flip214: i've seen the light! 10:27:22 DelPuerto [~youguy@66.Red-95-124-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:27:31 Ralith: Best I can come up with is searching YouTube... or something. 10:27:45 Perhaps Vimeo 10:27:52 yeah, but that'll get you all kinds of crap 10:28:01 I've seen references to particularly good ones a few times 10:28:34 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:29:11 Very true. 10:29:14 lisplearner: is Lisp Cabinet working out for you? 10:29:51 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 10:35:22 yeah 10:35:28 but my code still needs to be looked at :( 10:35:34 Kryztof [~user@158.223.59.95] has joined #lisp 10:36:35 lisplearner: Use the facilities I described in emacs to check your outermost parenthesis. 10:37:47 lisplearner: do the same for the parenthesis of your cond clauses. 10:38:20 lisplearner: also, conventional lisp style suggests that you type names in lower-case. 10:38:27 lisplearner: you're probably not a computer noob if you've used c++ and/or java. basic steps: get a common lisp implementation (sbcl, clozurecl, clisp, abcl [java based], etc.), get emacs, get slime, configure it to be loaded at emacs startup and to launch your common lisp 10:38:41 acelent: he's already got all that. 10:38:47 ah :) sorry 10:39:00 I'm up and running 10:39:00 he's ready then :) have a nice trip 10:39:06 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@66.Red-95-124-63.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 10:39:08 I'm just having trouble with my code now 10:39:59 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-219-13.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:40:18 lisplearner: did you try the things I suggested? 10:41:59 lisplearner: another good habit is to use emacs' auto-indent feature, which will make it pretty obvious if you've messed up your parenthesis. To do this, press tab on a line, or select multiple lines and press Ctrl-Alt-\ 10:42:52 lisplearner: alternatively, to auto-indent everything between a pair of parenthesis, place the cursor on the ( and press Ctrl-Alt-q 10:43:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-199.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:44:26 lisplearner: while I'm at it, to view the documentation for a standard-library function or macro, place the cursor on its name, and press Ctrl-c Ctrl-d Ctrl-H (note the capital H) 10:45:31 Could you name some testing frameworks? I'd like to see what's out there 10:45:57 sykopomp will know one when he gets up in a few hours 10:47:38 Tasser: http://www.cliki.net/Test%20Framework 10:49:04 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-220-156.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:49:40 -!- |3b|` is now known as |3b| 10:51:27 well 10:51:33 I'm still having a lot of trouble 10:51:40 and I'm using the editor now 10:51:41 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124751 10:51:44 that's where I'm at 10:52:11 the purpose is to look for Z within S, looking within sub lists unlike member... basically member that also looks in sub lists 10:52:19 -!- gko [~gko@27.241.31.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:52:59 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 10:56:03 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:56:25 E3D3 [~ax2b4u@i213226.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 10:57:33 lisplearner: are you familiar with how to use the REPL? 10:57:44 lisplearner, I'd say one-char variables are kinda evil ;-) 10:58:06 no not familiar with REPL 10:59:23 lisplearner: Your emacs has a 'Buffers' menu that will let you switch between different things. Selecting *slime-repl ccl* from it will bring you to an interactive Lisp prompt. 11:00:15 lisplearner: you can enter code here and hit return to test things easily and quickly. If you type Ctrl-c Ctrl-c while your cursor is in your function definition, it will send it to the lisp that you're intracting with at the REPL. 11:00:21 you can then easily experiment with your function. 11:01:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:02:03 lisplearner: relatedly, if you enter (trace your-function-name) at the REPL, and then test your function, the Lisp implementation will give you information on calls and return values for that function, which can be very helpful for debugging recursive functions like this. 11:02:11 use (untrace your-function-name) to disable that feature when you are done. 11:02:30 also I need to get to bed now; good luck. 11:02:37 thanks for your help :) 11:03:06 I hope you find lisp to be to your liking! 11:04:01 thanks 11:05:23 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:05:43 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 11:05:58 -!- jasom_ [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:06:08 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:06:50 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:06:58 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 11:07:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:10:38 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 11:11:37 -!- E3D3 [~ax2b4u@i213226.upc-i.chello.nl] has left #lisp 11:12:24 *pjb* is back 11:14:33 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:16:21 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:16:24 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p5792050E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:16:28 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 11:16:33 manuel_ [~manuel_@p5792050E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:17:57 jasom [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 11:18:00 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.142] has joined #lisp 11:20:15 -!- markskil1eck [~mark@host86-136-233-106.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:41 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:21:00 lisplearner: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124751 --> the test is wrong. null test for the symbol nil, not for empty strings. Use: ((string= "" s) nil) ; String is empty, return nil 11:21:15 (or remove the misleading comment!) 11:22:00 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 11:22:00 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-220-156.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 11:22:03 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:22:17 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:22:35 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.60.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:23:51 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.142] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:24:28 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.142] has joined #lisp 11:25:48 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:25:58 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:26:07 -!- SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 11:26:43 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:27:48 photon [~photon@unaffiliated/photon] has joined #lisp 11:29:57 Is ABCL practical to use for generating dynamic web pages in a production environment? 11:31:30 I've not used it personally, but I expect it'd be useful for hosting environments using java (if not wanting to use clojure) 11:32:14 -!- pomysl is now known as sirmacik 11:32:35 having no experience with it I'm not sure about its stability and performance (and performance might not matter depending on your application, especially if PHP would do, which is unlikely to be faster) 11:33:32 others here might have used it though 11:34:37 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.60.2] has joined #lisp 11:37:10 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:40 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:39:24 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 11:40:06 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:40:37 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:42:12 lisplearner: Another, important thing that Ralith forgot to mention is using quicklisp in the REPL... 11:42:53 You have quicklisp (from what I can tell), so here's a quick demo. 11:44:25 (ql:quickload "system-name") ; Load any system (i.e. library) and it's dependencies. Download and install what isn't installed yet. 11:44:53 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:45:01 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 11:45:31 ql:uninstall does the reverse. 11:46:19 The idea is that you load the stuff you need into the Lisp you are running in Emacs, and then develop your stuff from there. 11:46:19 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:46:47 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:48:33 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.157.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:49:07 If you'd like to write your own packages, then have a look at existing .asd files, reference the asdf manual (http://common-lisp.net/project/asdf/asdf.html) and ask here for some pointers to get you going. 11:49:13 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:25 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-156-166.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:50:06 lisplearner: In case you didn't know, ASDF is like Ant for a Java project, or Make for C/C++ projects. 11:54:08 -!- trigen- [c1aca602@gateway/web/freenode/ip.193.172.166.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:56:30 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:56:32 Perhaps a little early, the guy is still trying to grasp concepts such as parentheses, atoms, conses... 11:57:37 give him metaclass defining macros already 11:57:55 :D 11:58:54 jimmy1980 [~jimmy@112.224.3.31] has joined #lisp 12:01:27 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.165.38] has joined #lisp 12:03:51 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.60.2] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 12:04:01 pjb: Perhaps you're right. Still, these things are things that every Lisp programmer should know. At this point, it's just good to know ABOUT these things then. 12:06:54 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 12:09:24 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-188-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 12:12:03 pjb: Actually, the following "slogan" wouldn't be too far wrong: 12:12:16 Welcome to #lisp. Learn or die. 12:12:22 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:12:27 :P 12:12:29 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 12:13:02 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.7] has joined #lisp 12:13:15 Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:13:52 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:13:58 good afternoon everyone 12:15:49 Afternoon Blkt 12:15:56 hi there 12:17:07 flip214: I'm quite tempted to try slimv (I use vim for code editing since long ago, except for CL, where emacs multiple control sequences constantly annoy me) 12:18:51 flip214: I recall there being another swank client project for vim too, but I've not tried it yet either 12:19:01 I'll give it a try too, been struggling with emacs and vimpulse 12:19:55 phadthai: I've been tempted to call them keycombos (like in a fighting game). 12:20:05 haha 12:20:05 :P 12:20:07 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-18-50.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 12:20:29 those games are also finger destroyers :) 12:20:34 fe[nl]ix: o/ 12:21:20 carpal tunnel cloggers 12:21:49 -!- HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:22:04 phadthai: there've been a few tries for this ... slimv is actively being developed 12:22:15 nice 12:22:21 HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 12:23:11 I also use cscope with vim for C code, and ECL, so it'd be even more convenient 12:23:18 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 12:23:35 phadthai: did you know that cscope is a C copy of a Lisp Machine program called MasterScope? 12:23:38 so that's perhaps 2 of 346, or 0.57% 12:23:44 Xach: I had no idea 12:25:20 -!- HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:25:20 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-naepxaepqegvejfg] has left #lisp 12:25:30 HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 12:25:47 but it doesn't really surprise me :) 12:27:12 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.36] has joined #lisp 12:28:19 -!- HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:27 HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 12:31:29 -!- HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:37 HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 12:33:47 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.165.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:34:12 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-67.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:34:44 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 12:35:51 -!- HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:36:00 HajoVonta [HajoVonta@54037699.catv.pool.telekom.hu] has joined #lisp 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Connection reset by peer] 13:24:13 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:24:27 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 13:24:52 -!- pcavs [~Adium@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:25:14 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:28:12 ChibaPet [~mason@38.104.6.150] has joined #lisp 13:29:01 -!- eyes_ [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:31:03 eyes_ [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 13:33:22 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:35:01 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.152.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:35:17 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D571.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:40:57 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:41:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:41:38 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:43:27 SteveG [~Steve@c-71-195-234-222.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:10 ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 13:45:57 *Xach* has run into a bug in mod_lisp2.c, wonders if there's an update 13:46:21 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@212.99.10.150] has left #lisp 13:49:27 rme [~rme@50.43.145.160] has joined #lisp 13:49:28 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Quit: I need my meds... >.<] 13:50:50 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.137.164] has joined #lisp 13:52:04 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:54:38 *Xach* wonders about upgrading from tbnl 13:55:20 i think mod_lisp is dead 13:55:51 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:56:00 It sucks up all CPU when trying to process a very large message from the lisp side 13:56:10 Not sure if there's something special about the content of the large message 13:58:02 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:02:36 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:02:53 Shaftoe_ [~memet@95.14.124.132] has joined #lisp 14:03:01 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:04:37 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:01 -!- churib_ [~churib@95.156.194.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:06:31 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:06:31 -!- churib` [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:07:51 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-199-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 14:11:07 -!- Shaftoe_ [~memet@95.14.124.132] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 14:14:19 -!- rme [rme@602FF267.7AD63B8A.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 14:14:58 nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33FD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:15:51 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.145.160] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:16:58 pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has joined #lisp 14:17:20 Hmm. Whats the difference between cl-prevalence and weblocks-prevalence 14:18:14 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:19:45 _srid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:58 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p5792050E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 14:24:11 sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:26:31 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 14:28:37 cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.181.61] has joined #lisp 14:30:58 -!- cesarbp [~chatzilla@189.139.181.61] has quit [Client Quit] 14:34:28 hello Blkt 14:34:30 churib [~churib@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 14:35:33 Shaftoe_ [~memet@95.14.124.132] has joined #lisp 14:36:33 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-qirglminevlukjgp] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:37:17 I'm having some grief with merge-pathnames 14:37:24 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 14:37:41 Shaftoe_: tell us. 14:37:43 Shaftoe_: What's up? What are you starting with and what do you want to get? 14:37:47 yes, I'm writing =) 14:38:13 250 is the limit, IIRC. 14:38:14 cesarbp [~cbolano@189.139.181.61] has joined #lisp 14:38:46 -!- add^_ [~add^_^@h154n5c1o838.bredband.skanova.com] has quit [Quit: add^_] 14:38:58 (merge-pathnames "data.text" "/foo/bar/blah.baz") => #P"/foo/bar/data.text" 14:38:59 let me guess, he is trying to do something that is absolutely trivial with any other library? did I mentioned I hate pathnames :-) 14:39:05 (merge-pathnames "data" "/foo/bar/blah.baz") => #P"/foo/bar/data.baz" 14:39:19 Shaftoe_: So far everything as expected. 14:39:20 Yes. 14:39:43 hmm. I can't have/use extensionless files? 14:40:37 Shaftoe_: You could use (make-pathname :type nil :name "data" :defaults "/foo/bar/blah.baz") 14:40:59 *Xach* loves pathnames 14:41:28 ha hha =) 14:41:29 great. 14:41:55 I had started going down the pathname-directory route, and it was getting ever more complex 14:42:12 Xach: thanks! 14:43:16 I find it helps to start with "What are pathnames good at representing on my implementation?" and playing to their strengths rather than "What do I think is the best thing to do and how do I force the pathname system to do it?" 14:43:38 Lots of intelligent people seem to turn into dipshits over the latter question. 14:44:20 replace "the pathname system" with almost anything 14:44:22 that is totally the case, and I've learned to accept the wisdom of the #lisp channel over this issue. 14:44:25 it also helps to understand that pathnames are coming from an era where the unix file system with a root directory was the exception. this is why pathnames have host and device fields. 14:44:42 I don't use pathnames enough that I even know the breadth of available functions. aka I don't know what I don't know =| 14:46:11 Shaftoe_: also, parsing physical pathnames is implementation dependant, while using make-pathname can be done conformingly. 14:46:21 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:50 -!- udzinari [user@nat/ibm/x-ricebydsunvehcdg] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:54:18 urandom__ [~user@p548A3CC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:54:53 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:55:08 shaftoe: Pathnames are, imho, suitable for making a virtual lisp file-system. 14:55:26 shaftoe: It's when you try to use them to deal with the real world that you get problems. 14:55:46 Then you might find namestrings easier to handle. 14:55:55 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:56:38 -!- SpitfireWP_ is now known as SpitfireWP 14:57:02 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:57:41 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:58:09 Yes, virtual lisp file-systems mapped to a subset of the actual file system. 14:58:45 And for namestrings, you may want to implement a library parsing and manipulating posix namestrings... 14:58:48 HG` [~HG@p579F76A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:02 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 15:00:46 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:18 -!- doesthiswork [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has left #lisp 15:06:15 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:06:18 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D571.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:07:22 Yuuhi [benni@p5483D571.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:19 iolib has "pathname" objects that match what modern operating systems do 15:08:28 -!- _srid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:12:37 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:41 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.137.164] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 15:12:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:13:36 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-199-91.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:13:39 -!- Shaftoe_ [~memet@95.14.124.132] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 15:14:06 -!- _krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:14:29 -!- nano- [nano@xmms2/developer/nano] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:14:48 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:15:01 -!- kjellkt [~kkgt@81.167.109.223] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:38 -!- pchrist [~spirit@83.212.183.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 249 seconds] 15:15:49 -!- SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:15:52 nano- [nano@debian.as] has joined #lisp 15:17:23 _krappie_ [~brain@mx.skitzo.org] has joined #lisp 15:17:58 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:18:00 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:19:08 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-121-218.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:19:27 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:20:16 -!- eyes_ is now known as EyesIsServer 15:21:34 -!- psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.173] has left #lisp 15:21:48 kjellkt [~kkgt@223.81-167-109.customer.lyse.net] has joined #lisp 15:22:02 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:22:14 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-166-60.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:22:43 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:23:20 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:23:53 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 15:26:52 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:27:16 Cam [~i@unaffiliated/cam] has joined #lisp 15:27:38 I'm not sure if this is the right place to ask, but does anyone know how I can get rid of the SBCL debugger that clogs my screen EVERY time I write something 15:27:44 For the interpreter mode. 15:28:06 Type: ? RET 15:28:12 <|3b|> Cam: hard to say without more context 15:28:16 pnq [~nick@AC815592.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:28:51 Cam: consider using slime (assuming that you're trying to use the raw repl) 15:28:52 Cam: usually, it involves calling a restart, by giving its number, often: 0 RET 15:28:54 Cam: just write without errors 15:28:56 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:29:06 stassats: I'm new :3 15:29:16 On the other hand, if you use slime, just type: q 15:29:22 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-bpjddqnulefealuj] has joined #lisp 15:29:27 http://pastie.org/2569030 15:29:43 Cam: read line 8. 15:29:43 I'm just using SBCL right now - I am in class and I would like to disable the debugger :\ 15:29:54 You cannot disable it. 15:30:01 Lies. 15:30:02 .....what... 15:30:07 (well you could, but since you don't know what you're doing, I won't tell you how). 15:30:09 disabling the debugger won't make your code error-free 15:30:09 Cam: what would you like to happen instead, if you type something that can't be interpreted by the lisp? 15:30:36 H4ns: an error, not 4000 lines. If I type (setq x '(a b c)) it still prints 2000 lines. 15:30:46 Cam: it does not. 15:30:47 I know it won't make it error-free, but I can't even see the result of my entered functions. 15:30:50 Want to bet? 15:30:55 Cam: no. 15:31:13 http://pastie.org/2569030 15:31:18 And functions output more... 15:31:26 -!- ccorn_ [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn_] 15:31:27 Cam: it prints enough context to make diagnosis possible. you'll need to read what it prints. 15:31:31 Cam: you could use this REPL: http://paste.lisp.org/display/18280 15:31:48 Cam: click on Raw Source, copy it in a repl.lisp file, (load "repl.lisp") (repl) 15:32:05 Then any error is reported, and the next REPL interaction goes on, without entering the debugger. 15:32:08 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 15:32:38 Cam: ( notice also how we much prefer http://paste.lisp.org/new/lisp here ;-) ) 15:33:07 leo2007 [~leo@222.130.137.164] has joined #lisp 15:33:10 Cam: that's not a debugger, but a warning 15:33:16 stassats: perhaps, for a newbie, just reporting the error is enough, since they don't write deep code... 15:33:18 :\ ok thanks. 15:33:27 and my first suggestion stands, don't write the code which produces errors or warnings 15:33:52 stassats: [ ] helpful 15:34:04 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 15:34:15 e.g., instead of writing (setq x '(a b c)), you need first to declare "x", with defparameter or defvar 15:34:35 And since defparameter and defvar declare the variable special, it should be named *x* instead of x. 15:34:38 learning how to avoid mistakes is better than sweeping them under the carpet 15:34:48 Cam: the alternative, is to write (let ((x '(a b c))) (do-something-with x)) 15:35:22 stassats: well, reporting the error without entering the debugger is not exactly sweeping mistakes under the carpet. 15:35:38 Cam: how do you like my REPL? 15:35:54 pjb: it doesn't make easier to find them 15:36:11 stassats: a newbie writes small flat code. 15:36:18 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:37:08 On the other hand, that may make them think more about their code, if the error message doesn't pin-point the erroneous form. 15:37:09 especially for a newbie 15:37:13 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 15:37:48 Perhaps using swank one could report a more precise error message... 15:37:57 (swank, for the portability). 15:38:42 and being a newbie doesn't give you an excuse for doing things backwards, learning how to debug lisp code is a crucial part of learning lisp 15:40:26 Well, onotgeny doesn't recapitulates phylogeny in learning... We can regret it, but students will jump in the middle of new stuff. 15:40:32 s/onot/onto/ 15:40:57 ontogeny doesn't recapitulate phylogeny even in biology 15:42:30 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:45:09 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 15:45:35 -!- SteveG [~Steve@c-71-195-234-222.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:46:03 SteveG [~Steve@c-71-195-234-222.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:46:18 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection timed out] 15:47:00 anyone tinkered with ecl scripts, like ecl -shell file.lisp ? Reason I asked, was that I was trying to get the console output piped into a stream and it doesn't work compared to other programs printing to the console. 15:47:16 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 15:48:35 psyllo [~benjamin@69.59.136.173] has joined #lisp 15:48:41 francogrex: perhaps, check asdf:run-shell-command or read the doc. The way streams are redirected is sometimes strange, depending on the implementation. 15:50:20 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:50:57 http://repl.it/ 15:51:29 no CL :( 15:51:38 neat idea, though. 15:51:53 good, it'll keep away the unwashed 15:52:07 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:52:26 -!- StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:53:01 hehe. CL in javascript. 15:53:16 dlowe: now you laugh. 15:54:14 yes, tomorrow I'll cry, I'm sure 15:54:38 StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has joined #lisp 15:55:50 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:53 -!- pnq [~nick@AC815592.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:57:13 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:57:27 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 15:57:30 -!- Cam [~i@unaffiliated/cam] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:58:35 pjb: ok I will. thanks 15:59:26 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 15:59:55 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@75-138-73-64.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:21 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 16:01:26 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:01:48 *Xach* crys preëmptively 16:05:56 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:06:20 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:06:22 ëäüïö 16:06:28 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:09:13 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:09:42 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@c-71-233-112-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:00 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-18-50.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:11:47 jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has joined #lisp 16:13:43 -!- SteveG [~Steve@c-71-195-234-222.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:14:00 cya tomorrow everyone 16:14:09 -!- Blkt [~user@89-96-199-46.ip13.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Going home!] 16:16:34 -!- jsfb [~jon@unaffiliated/jsfb] has quit [Client Quit] 16:16:51 pnq [~nick@ACA43879.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:17:53 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:19:13 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 16:20:21 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-keibolzmmbqpieri] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:22:31 Cam [~i@unaffiliated/cam] has joined #lisp 16:22:43 pjb: I am banned from paste.lisp.org 16:23:42 yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-86.nwgsm.ru] has joined #lisp 16:25:26 -!- Cam [~i@unaffiliated/cam] has quit [Client Quit] 16:25:42 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:31:30 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:33:23 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:34:17 _srid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:35 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-gfvslrblchvqdpsm] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:37:17 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:37:32 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-30-209.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:39:03 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:40:48 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:27 -!- na[k] [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:41:37 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:42:02 -!- jfletche1 is now known as jfletcher 16:43:19 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 16:44:20 what's the difference between (format t "~a~%" argument) and (format t "~a~a" argument #\newline) if any? 16:44:58 brevity? 16:45:02 when piping from sbcl to another aplication (SAS) I get very different results, the latter being the more accurate 16:45:06 a function call? 16:45:14 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:45:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl51B7BB83.pool.t-online.hu] has joined #lisp 16:45:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@dsl51B7BB83.pool.t-online.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:45:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:45:32 Fade: must be more than brevity 16:45:40 someone could redefine #\ to produce something different than a newline character 16:45:53 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 16:46:06 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:46:22 -!- Trystam is now known as Tristam 16:46:48 francogrex: you must be measuring the results wrong 16:46:55 stassats: yes but the difference in output between ~% and newline I can see it on the pipe 16:48:12 if there's a difference, it's somewhere else in the code 16:48:15 (let ((mlist '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10))) (loop for i in mlist do (format t "~a~a" i #\newline))) is capture from 1 to 10 16:48:47 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.196.96] has joined #lisp 16:48:57 while (let ((mlist '(1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10))) (loop for i in mlist do (format t "~a~%" i))) prints 1 3 5 7 9 10 only! 16:49:18 (by print I mean pipes to the other application) 16:50:41 are you sure you run the code you think you run? 16:51:18 hmm, you seem to be very sure it shouldn't behave differently... so I'd better verify several times 16:51:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:51:36 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 16:52:00 unless you have some different kind of sbcl than i have, yes, i'm sure 16:52:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:53:27 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:18 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:55:35 altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:56 -!- _srid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:56:09 I have a differnt sbcl I compiled myself on windows. But behavior is consistent when run in cmd (botyh forms print fine), only becomes lunatic in the sas application pipe 16:56:22 oh well 16:56:54 I'll leave it at that now, since it's not related to lisp but to extra OS/application problems 16:57:13 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:57:47 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:00 tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 16:59:02 perhaps the ~% is being buffered and the explicit newline is not? 16:59:25 (finish-output) after the format? 17:00:03 -!- tunes is now known as Fare 17:00:04 seems like a longshot. 17:00:09 anyhow, that's very weird. 17:00:17 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:00:21 -!- alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Quit: alanpearce] 17:00:32 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:00:32 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:00:32 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:00:52 Fade: yeah, but I suspect it's really related to the fact I'm on windows... I'll investigate a little bit more 17:01:01 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-121-209.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 17:01:09 what happens /w the same code on *nix? 17:01:10 they result eventually in exactly the same code 17:01:21 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE33FD3.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 17:01:31 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:01:54 francogrex: you're trying on windows? 17:02:09 francogrex: could be that the \r\n newline style there messes up your output 17:02:10 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:02:29 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:02:33 can you dump the output of the broken form into a file and inspect with a hex editor? 17:02:48 that's a better hypothesis, except as stassats points out, both forms should result in the same code? 17:02:59 #\Newline is just newline, right? 17:03:14 I didn't think sbcl does newline translation via external formats? 17:03:24 me neither 17:03:30 ~% would instruct format to run terpri 17:03:44 try (format t "~a" i) (terpri) and see if that breaks too 17:03:48 even if it did, it basically does (write-char #\Newline) in both cases 17:04:04 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-17.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:04:12 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-179-17.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:04:26 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:35 now, if francogrex some crazy sbcl modified to output different things on terpri 17:04:39 has 17:04:46 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-86-209.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:05:21 anyway - two tests you can run which should help narrow it down (: 17:05:28 stassats: I have done a few modifications yes but mainly related to read-line... 17:05:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-218.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:05:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-218.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:05:29 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:05:33 oudeis [~oudeis@89-139-15-16.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 17:05:45 ok I will try those tests 17:05:59 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.12] has joined #lisp 17:06:06 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:37 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:06:40 compare (char (with-output-to-string (stream) (write-char #\Newline)) 0) and (char (with-output-to-string (stream) (terpri stream)) 0) 17:07:20 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:38 -!- yakov [~yakov@ip-83-149-3-86.nwgsm.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:08:18 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-189.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:08:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 17:08:19 -!- attila_lendvai1 is now known as attila_lendvai 17:08:19 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-178-48-172-189.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 17:08:20 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:09:30 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:09:59 -!- vert2_ [~vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-cdksmvgtyxsjacap] has quit [Quit: ~] 17:11:08 stassats: no difference both output #\Newline... jesus! Really let's leave it at that... sometimes weird things happen that one cannot explain... what was that famous bug called the heisenburg or something.. 17:11:27 it's an act of God! 17:11:40 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:11:40 another proof, take that, atheists! 17:12:10 hah, god acts in strange ways, even in computer applications 17:13:21 God works in mysterious ways 17:13:28 heisenbug goes away if you instrument it. this one stays, so that's a good sign 17:13:40 (just because you can't explain it doesn't make it divine) 17:13:58 :) 17:14:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 17:14:23 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 17:14:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Client Quit] 17:14:53 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:11 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:11 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:11 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:15:11 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:15:23 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:15:28 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:15:40 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:40 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:15:40 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:16:05 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 17:16:06 -!- RomyEatsDrupal is now known as RomyAway 17:16:30 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:16:38 -!- RomyAway is now known as Romy-AFK 17:19:23 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:19:49 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 17:19:56 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:59 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:19:59 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:24:26 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@89-139-15-16.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:28:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:30:26 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:30:28 what is even more baffling is that anyone would actually notice this peculiarity, hehe 17:30:30 rwiker [~rwiker@187.80-202-32.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 17:32:08 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-219-13.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:31 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:51 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:32:51 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 17:32:51 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 17:33:43 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 17:39:30 rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has joined #lisp 17:39:42 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Quit: (save-lisp-and-die)] 17:39:52 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@75-138-73-64.dhcp.gwnt.ga.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:40:16 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: 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computer has gone to sleep] 18:36:00 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:37:12 am0c [~am0c@175.119.182.185] has joined #lisp 18:37:51 -!- pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:39:14 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 18:40:16 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Client Quit] 18:40:29 gavinharper [~gavinrhar@dyn3-82-128-188-242.psoas.suomi.net] has joined #lisp 18:40:35 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 18:41:24 pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has joined #lisp 18:47:06 too bad there is no overloading in lisp :-( 18:47:32 overloading of what? 18:48:43 The meaning of the word "package"? 18:50:22 -!- gavinharper [~gavinrhar@dyn3-82-128-188-242.psoas.suomi.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 18:50:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:50:33 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:50:40 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 18:50:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:50:53 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:51:31 stassats, so you don't have to specify withich compare you want - string=, char= or whatever 18:51:46 kami```` [~user@dslb-084-059-213-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:51:56 clhs equal 18:52:14 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:52:43 <|3b|> equality is a bad example, since it already doesn't have enough varieties... trying to wedge them all into 1 meaning would be even worse 18:53:38 |3b|, don't you when it has too many varieties? 18:53:43 when/mean 18:53:48 <|3b|> no 18:53:58 -!- kami``` [~user@p57A2F31C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:54:38 I think I parsed your sentence wrong 18:54:40 <|3b|> for example you can't compare contents of arrays without ignoring case of any strings in them 18:54:57 oh, ok 18:55:57 kami````` [~user@p57A2F31C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:42 (every 'string-equal array-1 array-2) 18:57:25 -!- kami```` [~user@dslb-084-059-213-233.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:58:13 <|3b|> easy enough to do (defgeneric generic= (a b)) and start adding methods if you want though 18:59:25 gabnet [~gabnet@149.63.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:37 mw-equiv to the rescue 19:00:38 (not really) 19:01:09 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:02:00 -!- Romy-AFK [~stickycak@c-71-233-112-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:02:12 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@c-71-233-112-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:03:52 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.0.237] has joined #lisp 19:05:04 more bleepy 80s lisp fun http://vimeo.com/29387437 19:06:33 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:07:27 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@c-71-233-112-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 19:08:05 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:08:36 neat 19:09:36 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:48 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:15:25 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3CC4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:15:40 -!- hugod [~hugod@70.24.176.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:16:16 rwiker_ [~rwiker@187.80-202-32.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:17:37 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-064-188-245.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:17:38 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099100.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 19:18:07 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.0.237] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:19:03 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 19:19:06 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.165.41] has joined #lisp 19:20:52 hugod [~hugod@70.24.176.64] has joined #lisp 19:24:30 -!- am0c [~am0c@175.119.182.185] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 19:30:59 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 19:31:04 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-189-181.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:32:02 pnq [~nick@AC815F06.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:33:24 dto: seems faster than the original xong. 19:34:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 19:34:09 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@177.sub-75-203-67.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 19:35:34 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:37:49 piotrkowalski [~user@77-255-242-190.adsl.inetia.pl] has joined #lisp 19:38:34 Fade: yep. i'm actually getting the framerate smooth now too 19:39:43 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 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20:05:21 bieber [~quassel@162-78.97-97.tampabay.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:11:44 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@75-150-112-205-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:59 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@177.sub-75-203-67.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:12:08 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-30-209.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr] has left #lisp 20:12:57 katesmith_ [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 20:13:14 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:14:29 -!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:15:03 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 20:15:37 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:15:52 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:16:08 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 20:16:57 -!- rwiker_ [~rwiker@187.80-202-32.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:17:10 Hum, alu.org seems to be down. Anyone got an offline copy of http://www.alu.org/mop ? (Also is it possible to integrate it into emacs like CLHS lookup?) 20:18:05 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@2.148.2.148.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 20:20:02 Cloud [~cbp@189.247.135.245] has joined #lisp 20:21:35 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 20:22:36 *Hexstream* wonders if it would make sense to put offline CLHS and MOP in Quicklisp. And perhaps hook quicklisp-slime-helper to it automatically. 20:23:49 C-c C-d m could be a MOP lookup :) 20:23:54 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:15 -!- katesmith is now known as kate123 20:24:58 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:24:58 -!- jrockway_ [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:24:58 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 20:25:03 -!- drdo``` is now known as drdo 20:25:57 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 20:28:51 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-110-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:29:20 RomyEatsDrupal_ [~stickycak@75-150-112-205-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:05 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@75-150-112-205-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:05 -!- RomyEatsDrupal_ is now known as RomyEatsDrupal 20:31:01 -!- kate123 is now known as katesmith123 20:31:25 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:33:50 -!- pnq [~nick@AC815F06.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:37:54 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.110.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:15 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:39:24 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099100.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:40:00 -!- tomaw is now known as 5EXAAAB0J 20:40:01 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 20:40:01 jrockway_ [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has joined #lisp 20:40:01 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 20:40:06 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:40:15 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 20:40:23 -!- pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has left #lisp 20:40:28 -!- 5EXAAAB0J is now known as tomaw 20:40:52 *nicdev_* m 20:41:31 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 20:41:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:41:50 -!- photon [~photon@unaffiliated/photon] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:42:05 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 20:42:34 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:43:02 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:43:09 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@75-150-112-205-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:43:56 HG`` [~HG@p579F740B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:45:18 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:46:06 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F76A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:47:01 Nice, alu.org is back online. 20:50:20 marsell [~marsell@120.20.37.135] has joined #lisp 20:51:03 -!- rien [~rien@dyn-160-39-34-82.dyn.columbia.edu] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 20:52:01 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Bye.] 20:53:39 -!- HG`` [~HG@p579F740B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG``] 20:54:29 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 20:57:09 -!- Cloud is now known as cesarbp 20:57:34 dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 20:58:29 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:58:32 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 21:02:22 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:03:24 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 21:03:36 -!- pibako [~user@77-255-242-190.adsl.inetia.pl] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:05:17 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:06:05 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@38.104.6.150] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:07:02 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:02 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:07:02 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 21:07:23 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:09:16 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 21:09:26 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@c-71-233-112-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:09:49 -!- stassats [~stassats@pppoe.178-66-50-164.dynamic.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:12:38 -!- katesmith123 is now known as katesmith 21:14:55 jsg [~Steve@c-71-195-234-222.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:15:22 -!- jsg is now known as Guest17671 21:18:00 Hexstream: clhs license prohibits it 21:18:13 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:23:50 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:23:50 -!- jrockway_ [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:23:51 -!- otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has quit [*.net *.split] 21:24:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:25:57 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:27:46 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@149.63.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:27:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:28:34 Xach: Oh :( On the other hand MOP license doesn't :) I wonder how much $$$ LispWorks would ask to put the CLHS in the public domain or similar... Eatime 21:29:01 does anyone else's slime take hours to connect on ubuntu vm 21:29:15 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:29:27 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:50 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-110-57.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:31:05 cesarbp: mine works fine right away 21:31:17 :( 21:31:20 urandom__ [~user@p548A23E3.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:31:47 cesarbp: is it literally hours? you have lots of patience if so. 21:31:53 i install sbcl and slime from the sinaptic and it takes like 20 min to load while slowing everything else to a crawl 21:32:23 -!- tomaw is now known as 5EXAAAB0J 21:32:40 cesarbp: does it take 20 minutes every time or just the first time? 21:32:52 every time 21:33:06 *|3b|* wonders if it is an amazon micro instance or something... not quite 20 min even there though 21:33:35 cesarbp: that is quite unusual. 21:33:55 yeah i imagined so because i couldn't find anything on the net 21:34:12 <|3b|> run top and see what's using CPU while it loads? 21:34:13 -!- 5EXAAAB0J is now known as tomaw 21:34:20 maybe its because i also have modules for python or autocomplete in my emacs 21:34:47 are default method combination :after methods executed most-specific last or first? 21:34:55 I always forget, and then I forget where to look it up ): 21:36:26 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 21:36:26 jrockway_ [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has joined #lisp 21:36:26 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 21:36:28 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:37:10 cesarbp: is lisp sans emacs slow? 21:38:03 Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-123-53.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:21 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 21:38:39 coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:49 -!- coyo [~unf@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:38:49 coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 21:39:07 dunno i just unistalled everything 21:39:08 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-121-209.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:39:19 not gonna use the synaptic this time 21:39:33 antifuchs: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/07_ffb.htm .. least-specific-first apparently? 21:41:03 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:41:06 excellent, thanks a lot! 21:41:14 (I'll probably bookmark this) (: 21:41:15 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:15 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:41:15 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 21:43:37 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:45:36 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 21:45:44 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 21:49:26 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:50:25 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:52:01 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:56:39 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:56:44 bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:57:55 -!- kami````` [~user@p57A2F31C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:59:54 -!- bgs101 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Client Quit] 22:02:25 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: good night] 22:03:58 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:45 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:44 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:07:54 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:09:54 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:12:26 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:13:03 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 22:13:30 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:13:46 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:16:27 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-189-181.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:19:13 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:27:07 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:27:40 wow uhm installing by hand didnt fix anything t.t 22:27:49 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:27:59 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-44-241.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:28:05 -!- vpit3833 [~user@203.111.33.203] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:28:58 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-44-241.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 22:29:39 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:29:47 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:29:56 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:29:56 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 22:31:05 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:31:30 <|3b|> cesarbp: top show anything interesting while it loads? (including the %st after Cpu(s): at the top) 22:31:54 <|3b|> cesarbp: other guess would be slow filesystem somewhere 22:32:44 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Quit: ccorn] 22:33:02 ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 22:34:50 <|3b|> might also check to make sure asdf isn't configured to search some huge tree or something like that 22:35:26 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@g132123.upc-g.chello.nl] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:30 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:36:04 *|3b|* assumes swapping has already been ruled out 22:38:13 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:39:50 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-108-185.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 22:44:11 -!- replore__ [~replore@ntkngw304073.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:09 |3b|, it said sbcl was using 50-60 of cpu 22:49:08 <|3b|> and no %st? 22:49:46 cant remember xD 22:50:19 <|3b|> well, is it a vm on your machine or some vps? 22:50:28 vm on my machine 22:51:04 <|3b|> ok, presumably you haven't configured it for some really low share of CPU then :) 22:52:24 <|3b|> gave it a reasonable amount of ram, but not enough to start the host swapping? 22:52:43 it has 2 gb of ram 22:53:10 *Xach* often ran sbcl on ubuntu vms on a macbook without any trouble 22:53:25 im trying clisp 22:53:37 crossing fingers 22:53:55 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 22:54:04 *|3b|* runs sbcl on an ec2 micro instance, which /does/ limit cpu horribly, and doesn't have that much trouble 22:54:30 <|3b|> though i guess it isn't ubuntu 22:56:09 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:44 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 22:58:18 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 22:59:58 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:35 ok well clisp doesnt seem to hog every resource 23:00:49 :p 23:01:12 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:02:40 ya clisp works 23:04:26 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@c-71-233-112-183.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 23:06:28 cesarbp: what vm system 23:06:29 ? 23:07:17 virtualbox 23:07:23 *Xach* has nothin' 23:07:40 vbox 4.1.0 23:08:08 <|3b|> home dir on vm disk, and not on a network share or anything odd like that? 23:08:21 nope 23:14:19 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:48 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:21:46 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:24:07 What open-sauce CL implementation would you suggest for solaris/sparc? The solaris sbcl port seems a little oldish 23:24:19 s/The solaris/The sparc/ 23:24:30 open-sauce sounds good 23:25:52 I didn't invent that, unfortunately. 23:26:17 perhaps see if boehm-gc and gmp work for it, then ecl might be a choice 23:27:05 some commercial lisps must have good support, but I haven't used them 23:28:13 -!- Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:29:14 timack [~timack@hlfx64-1-63.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 23:29:30 -!- frhodes_ [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:32:46 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:37:06 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:37:22 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.135.245] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:37:56 yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:44:12 ed-k [~user@rrcs-50-75-78-61.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:44:15 phadthai: thx 23:45:24 oh, I'd be surprised if clisp doesn't support it, too 23:45:28 -!- yakov [~yakov@95-27-248-49.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:45:29 you're welcome 23:45:46 <|3b|> antoszka: tried compiling a newer sbcl? 23:47:10 <|3b|> the table on sbcl.org just lists the latest binary anyone has compiled and uploaded, newer versions are probably at least supposed to work 23:47:24 |3b|: No, but looking at the platform compatibility table I presume it's not a matter of copmilation but actually updating the sparc backend  correct me if I'm wrong. 23:47:53 In this case we'll try to compile the latest version. 23:47:54 I'm not sure if sbcl supports threads on solaris 23:48:02 (if you need threads, that is, it's also a factor) 23:49:22 Yeah I'll check all this stuff. 23:50:13 there's some ongoing work to have it support threads on all posix-threads systems I think though, so eventually it should 23:50:32 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 23:52:27 <|3b|> as far as i know, green on that table means current code 'should' work, but for the platforms with only old binaries, it might not have actually been tried recently, so bits may have rotted unnoticed and bug reports (and/or patches) would be good if so 23:57:53 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp