00:00:55 wxjunkie [~rubicon@74-129-50-214.dhcp.insightbb.com] has joined #lisp 00:01:03 -!- wxjunkie [~rubicon@74-129-50-214.dhcp.insightbb.com] has left #lisp 00:01:30 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:01:32 <|3b|> gigamonkey: middle one? (with no ') 00:04:28 ISF [~ivan@187.106.49.38] has joined #lisp 00:04:28 -!- Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:04:32 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.42.199.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:52 Adrinael [~adrinael@barrel.rolli.org] has joined #lisp 00:05:19 |3b|: could be. googling seems to turn up all three variants. 00:05:30 And neither Chicago's nor my dictionary are any help. 00:06:11 gigamonkey: try grammar guide instead of dictionary? 00:07:04 (and possibly a syntax book - best would be an integrated one) 00:07:40 while english grammar is easy, a simple book on it can still be the size of a small dictionary 00:07:57 *p_l|backup* fears possible size of a polish grammar book 00:08:59 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 00:10:02 p_l|backup: yeah. Not really grammar though. More usage which is what Chicago's is supposed to be about. 00:11:58 well, this is grammar/syntax for me, but it might be because polish grammar is richer in that area (even if we simplified it a lot in last few centuries, we still have "dual" showing up among singular and plural) 00:13:08 <|3b|> well, first you'd have to determine how the phrase is intended to be parsed before you could determine a grammatically/syntactically correct way to write it 00:13:10 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-122-110.wbs.co.za] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:13:48 <|3b|> is it the place belonging to the ones, or is "ones" an adjective describing the place 00:14:33 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:15:02 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@22.sub-75-225-230.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15:23 -!- froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has quit [Ping timeout: 244 seconds] 00:15:47 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@89.sub-75-224-15.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 00:17:05 froggey [~froggey@unaffiliated/froggey] has joined #lisp 00:20:53 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.204.21] has joined #lisp 00:28:55 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:33:05 -!- katesmith-gonert [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:06 -!- dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-127.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:33:07 katesmith-gonert [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:10 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-178-227.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:33:26 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-127.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:35 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-127.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:33:36 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-178-227.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 00:34:22 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-127.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 00:34:29 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-127.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Excess Flood] 00:35:15 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-50-127.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 00:35:52 -!- fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:36:29 fe[nl]ix [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has joined #lisp 00:38:51 gigamonkey: ones' seems logical. 00:40:37 ESchultz-Rodrigu [bnc4free@mango.bnc4free.com] has joined #lisp 00:42:28 topeak [~topeak@61.149.228.105] has joined #lisp 00:46:29 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:47:01 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:47:59 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:48:12 -!- ESchultz-Rodrigu [bnc4free@mango.bnc4free.com] has left #lisp 00:50:50 quotemstr [~quotemstr@dancol.org] has joined #lisp 00:51:18 Is there a way to conditionally create struct fields that's less evil than (eval `(defstruct foo ...)) ? 00:53:56 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:57:30 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 00:58:58 yes sellout- 00:59:05 but its not working 00:59:35 how can i make println? 00:59:39 in common lisp? 01:04:16 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:05:23 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:05:23 -!- scrimohsin [~cmsimon@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:05:23 scrimohsin [~cmsimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 01:06:08 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:06:16 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 01:08:49 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:12:30 topo: (defun println (x) (format t "~a~%" x)) 01:13:18 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-189-181.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:13:42 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:13:50 quotemstr: depends on when the fields are known. 01:14:21 Notice also that structures cannot be redefined conformingly. 01:14:29 cool 01:15:05 -!- vpit3833 [~user@203.111.33.203] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:15:06 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:15:23 quotemstr: you should probably rather use CLOS classes. 01:16:26 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:23:52 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:24:30 mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has joined #lisp 01:24:30 -!- mornfall [~mornfall@anna.fi.muni.cz] has quit [Changing host] 01:24:30 mornfall [~mornfall@kde/developer/mornfall] has joined #lisp 01:24:55 -!- Yuuhi``` [benni@p5483D6D8.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:27:55 -!- MeanWeen 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That sounds like either a very basic question or very underspecified. 03:11:45 Too basic then? 03:12:06 Just not enough information. What do you mean by best? What else are you doing? 03:12:53 well I could do something like (incf (nth (+ (random 2) (random 2)) list)) 03:12:56 (loop repeat 10 collect (coin-toss)) 03:12:56 -!- adam33147 [~user@ool-44c0fe65.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:20 austinh: That doesn't do what I wanted though 03:14:15 Ok, I see what you are asking now. 03:14:19 I don't want to collect the outcome of the coin toss, I want to count how often each result takes place 03:14:45 The code I posted isn't that elegant so I was wondering whether there was anything... nicer 03:15:31 maybe similar to (loop ... count ...) 03:16:02 I think I'd use LOOP and COUNT for this myself, indeed 03:16:21 with a FINALLY returning two values 03:16:34 (the ones used for COUNT .. INTO) 03:17:03 (loop with tosses = (make-array 2 :initial-element 0) repeat 1000 do (incf (aref tosses (random 2))) finally (return tosses)) 03:17:04 phadthai: Two values? 03:17:14 I'd probably make a vector of 0's and use incf. 03:17:49 pjb: yes, that is what I was hoping for 03:17:55 (loop with outcomes = 6 with tosses = (make-array outcomes :initial-element 0) repeat 1000 do (incf (aref tosses (random outcomes))) finally (return tosses)) 03:18:55 pjb: Thank you, that is an excellent solution 03:19:16 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:20:21 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@144.sub-75-224-76.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 03:21:33 pcavs [~Adium@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:03 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@144.sub-75-224-76.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:22:19 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@144.sub-75-224-76.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 03:22:27 SpringheeledJake 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language... 03:33:54 cpape [~user@cpape.eu] has joined #lisp 03:34:19 up for anything! 03:34:49 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-109-67-215-238.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 03:34:51 Start with: http://www.cliki.net/Online%20Tutorial 03:36:14 daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:38:18 -!- gemelen [~shelta@gemelen.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:38:41 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p5B326301.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:42:11 gemelen [~shelta@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 03:42:20 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-zjpapqephkqzyqom] has joined #lisp 03:42:28 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-102-215.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:49:41 -!- quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:49:49 quasisane [~sanep@c-76-24-80-97.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:52:32 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-137-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:58:09 howdy folks 04:00:11 -!- Mococa 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#lisp 05:46:08 -!- Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp121-45-15-207.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:49:36 how can i convert a float into a integer? 05:49:50 (truncate 3.3) 05:50:05 see als round ceiling and flooro 05:50:08 floor 05:50:59 -!- pcavs [~Adium@c-65-96-169-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:52:46 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:53:28 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 05:55:50 ok 05:56:23 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7BA83.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:56:27 cool thanks 05:57:08 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:57:43 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.140.54] has joined #lisp 05:58:53 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-208-27.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:57 topo: you might also be interested by RATIONALIZE, which would be more useful on most floating point numbers. 06:03:35 gko [~gko@27.242.71.209] has joined #lisp 06:07:17 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.41] has joined #lisp 06:08:44 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 06:17:33 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:19:00 -!- topeak [~topeak@61.149.228.105] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:19:36 is it possible to make emacs that every time i open it , it has some configuration in the windows? 06:20:19 -!- daniel___ [~daniel@p5082A7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Write error: Connection reset by peer] 06:20:27 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082A7B5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:20:56 i want to divide the window into 3 sections and have it configurated in some way 06:21:06 because it is a pain doing it everytime i load emacs 06:21:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 06:22:40 -!- ve [~a@193.62.81.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:23:31 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:23:56 topo #emacs might be a better choice 06:24:05 ok 06:26:03 though it's probably based on (split-window-vertically) and (split-window-horizontally). 06:26:40 the available functions are detailed here http://www.cs.utah.edu/dept/old/texinfo/emacs18/emacs_21.html 06:26:46 topo 6 06:30:15 ok thanks 06:31:15 topeak [~topeak@61.149.228.105] has joined #lisp 06:32:49 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 06:33:32 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:33:48 good morning 06:33:49 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.2.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:34:37 nefo [~nefo@114.252.179.117] has joined #lisp 06:34:37 -!- nefo [~nefo@114.252.179.117] has quit [Changing host] 06:34:37 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 06:35:45 waaaaargh__ [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f7c8.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:35:49 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[~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:39:43 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@mdb4036d0.tmodns.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 11:42:03 -!- sz0 [~user@94.54.248.254] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:42:42 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:42:50 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.29.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:43:54 -!- mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-kieyqvgwjbtwchlc] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:46:26 ikki [~ikki@200.95.163.66] has joined #lisp 11:46:48 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.12.231] has joined #lisp 11:46:56 ehu: hi 11:47:57 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:48:41 hi. 11:48:44 just saw your mail. 11:48:52 I'll have a quick look. 11:48:56 ehu: cool, thanks! 11:51:08 -!- ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:55:43 ehu: brad found the issue (see ticket) 11:55:57 yup. was just typing the command to create one :-) 11:56:00 :) 11:56:03 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 11:56:12 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.60.41] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 11:59:03 *frodef* is going to eclm it seems :) 11:59:11 vi snakker norsk 11:59:23 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:00:14 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:01:53 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:34 ramkrsna [ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 12:03:50 Xach: gjør vi det, nå? 12:05:11 *Xach* gives a blank stare 12:07:52 mcsontos [mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-gijmlpdszuqkjlyt] has joined #lisp 12:09:20 H4ns: the viewvc side of things is fixed now. 12:09:36 I'll look into the http checkout issue some more. 12:09:36 Xach: Det gjør jeg ikke, jeg har kun lærnt dansk. 12:10:57 *Xach* hears nothing but mouth potatoes 12:11:56 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 12:13:34 ehu: ok, let me know if i can help with anything. 12:13:48 -!- Gmind [~nevermind@113.190.205.123] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:15:10 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:18:20 H4ns: sent response to the ticket. The URL he used for checkout was the wrong one :-) 12:18:55 ehu: i tried http://common-lisp.net/project/mit-cadr/, but that did not work for me either. 12:19:04 ehu: somehow he must have gotten the wrong url. 12:19:35 correct. the url is svn.common-lisp.net/mit-cadr 12:19:43 for SVN checkouts. 12:19:50 probably a bit confusing, actually. 12:19:53 ehu: which is what he tried, or am i blind? 12:20:07 the one you pasted contains the "/project" section 12:20:13 dunno if you used that? 12:20:21 but mine does not 12:20:28 ehu: no, he tried the one you've just pasted but that failed 12:20:42 ehu: i guess that the symlink fixed it. but your mail is confusing. 12:21:07 ehu: he: "I tried FOO and it failed" you: "Yes, you had the wrong URL, try FOO instead" 12:21:28 ah. that's the issue. 12:21:36 I changed the link in one place too many. 12:21:47 I changed his original link as well :-/ 12:22:06 ehu: did you fix the add-project.sh script? 12:22:47 ah. good thing you mention that. on it now. 12:23:03 cool, thanks! 12:23:30 Demosthenes [~demo@mb34036d0.tmodns.net] has joined #lisp 12:24:38 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:27:19 H4ns: made it part of the 'repository setup script' setup-svn.sh 12:27:35 H4ns: now which repositories do I commit to and how? 12:28:03 ehu: well, i frankly don't know. we have chaos. 12:28:18 ehu: personally, i use git mostly nowadays. 12:28:28 yea. I've just committed to rcs; which command does git want? 12:28:35 ehu: don't worry 12:28:53 ehu: it'd be git add / git commit, but if it is in rcs, that should be ok. 12:28:55 ok. if you can do that (maybe later?) that'd be great. I'll leave that to you then. 12:29:15 ehu: i'll probably do it when/if i want to change that file. 12:29:37 manuel_ [~manuel_@p57921FDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:31:40 thanks. 12:31:41 -!- rotty_ [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:31:58 joelr [~joelr@95.60.213.7] has joined #lisp 12:32:37 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 257 seconds] 12:32:47 good day! support i have emacs split vertically. C-c C-z always switches to the SLIME REPL in the other buffer. is there a shortcut to make it in the same buffer instead? 12:34:46 rotty [~rotty@nncmain.nicenamecrew.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:30 joelr: I use the slime-selector (bound to C-c s locally) to rapidly switch to the repl. I don't know about changing C-c C-z's behavior, sorry. 12:37:47 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-eu2.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 12:38:35 Xach: did you bind that yourself? i don't have C-c s 12:38:53 -!- chturne [~chturne@2.26.72.157] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:39:11 joelr: i have (global-set-key (quote [f1]) (quote slime-selector)) 12:39:39 H4ns: thanks 12:40:01 (*I* have a Super key and slime-selector is s-s :-) 12:41:02 joelr: yes, I did. And I use C-c s r about 500 times per day. 12:41:06 Maybe 1000. 12:41:27 Xach: thanks 12:41:45 (define-key slime-repl-mode-map (kbd "C-c s") 'slime-selector) 12:41:45 H4ns: did you copy that from pjb? 12:41:51 this doesn't work the way i expect it to 12:41:52 joelr: Oh no no no no. 12:41:57 Xach: not knowingly, why? 12:41:58 joelr: It only makes sense globally! 12:42:10 ah, right 12:42:33 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:42:34 H4ns: (quote x) rather than 'x is something pjb does quite often. 12:43:01 Xach: hum. i need to change that! 12:43:46 *Xach* is so anti-pjb he writes (defun wrap-function #'arg ...) instead of (defun wrap-function (function arg) ...) 12:44:06 hahaha 12:54:25 -!- waaaaargh__ [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f7c8.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 12:54:58 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 12:56:58 -!- sonnym 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has joined #lisp 15:19:36 bauerd [~bauerd@178-26-242-87-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:21:30 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Client Quit] 15:22:02 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 15:22:39 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:22:48 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 15:24:05 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Client Quit] 15:24:37 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 15:25:43 kennyd [~kennyd@93-139-121-218.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 15:27:20 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-74-75.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 15:28:22 Xach: I actually use (quote x) only with clall in the shell: clall -r '(print (quote x))' 15:30:26 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:30:47 -!- Guest96731 is now known as pjb 15:30:51 Does anyone know offhand if there's a way to increase the block size of swank messages? eg. a (disassembly ...) returns 1MB of data, and I'd like bigger chunks than 4kB 15:30:56 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 15:30:57 -!- sellout- [~Adium@c-98-245-162-253.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:31:47 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:31:51 schme [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:31:51 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 15:31:51 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 15:32:02 swank messages aren't divided into blocks 15:32:21 flip214: change your IP settings? 15:32:38 but that only works on local networks, I think. 15:32:56 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:36:01 mcsontos [~mcsontos@hotspot8.rywasoft.net] has joined #lisp 15:37:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 15:39:15 ehu: no, for localhost 15:39:36 (disassemble ...) gives me a lot of (:write-string ...) messages, each with 4kB data 15:39:41 I'd like to get more at once 15:40:06 stassats: the (:write-string) seem to be cut 15:40:48 no, they're not, that's the output is buffered 15:41:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.129.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:41:38 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:41:40 you may want to use a dedicated output stream, if you want 15:41:50 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:42:31 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:43:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 15:43:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 15:44:08 -!- gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:45:06 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:45:20 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-74-75.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:46:50 gcentauri [~gcentauri@76-85-193-191.cable.inebraska.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:13 well, can I change the buffer size of the output stream? 15:49:25 rwiker [~rwiker@187.80-202-32.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 15:49:42 what do you really want to accomplish? 15:50:07 I've got a lot of output (~1MB) and want to get fewer (:write-string) messages, each with more data in it 15:50:25 use a dedicated output stream 15:51:10 HG` [~HG@p5DC05E1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:10 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:51:40 that is another possibility ... but can I change the buffering on the existing stream? 15:52:09 why would you want to? 15:53:40 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:54:23 sigh .. 15:54:55 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 15:55:19 sellout- [~Adium@173-8-242-217-Colorado.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:26 what is your actual goal? reduce traffic? increase speed? 15:57:04 altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 15:57:11 I've found swank::*maximum-pipelined-output-length* ... 15:58:35 I've just posted my initial work on the gdata stuff 15:58:52 flip214: can you answer my questions? 15:59:05 Is anyone interested in taking a look? I'm really not that experienced of a Lisp developer, and I'm a bit worried that my design is bad. 15:59:05 stassats: not until you answer mine ;) 15:59:44 sorry then, i can't help you without information 15:59:47 -!- pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:56 look, why can't you just provide an answer instead of asking what I'm trying to do? Just give me enough rope, I'll do the hanging myself 16:00:56 flip214: why do you need more/less buffering? 16:01:20 pjb [~t@81.202.16.46.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:01:29 flip214: for a 1mb disassembly, you won't get better performance with less buffering, i think 16:01:45 -!- pjb is now known as Guest13010 16:01:50 -!- Guest13010 is now known as pjb` 16:01:56 -!- pjb` is now known as pjb 16:02:02 flip214: my answer is dedicated output 16:02:15 yes, write it to a file. 16:02:20 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:02:31 but you don't like it, and you don't say why 16:03:22 In any case the upper limit in buffering is imposed by the OS. Thru TCP/IP, it'll be 64 KB, thru pipes it'll be 4 KB or perhaps 8 KB, etc. 16:05:00 stassats: yes, I got the message regarding dedicated output. 16:05:25 pjb: no, TCP/IP is normally configureable, up to many MB in linux; on >2.6 it's 64kB for pipes. 16:05:36 (side note) in an acl ide listener, (princ (with-output-to-string (*standard-output*) (disassemble 'f))) is WAY faster (this could as well just bind *standard-output* to a buffered wrapper stream) 16:05:48 acelent: I'd like _bigger_ buffers to decrease the amount of ping/pong to swank 16:06:13 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 16:06:24 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 16:06:50 and you won't accept the solution which actually does that 16:06:53 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:06:54 does this involve emacs, or just swank? 16:07:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:33 rwiker: yes, both slime and swank. 16:07:39 it involves swank and slimv 16:08:00 well, in that case, you should also consider the buffering on the emacs side... 16:08:15 rwiker: slimv, the vim thingy 16:08:26 flip214: you could've said that earlier... 16:10:08 well, in that case, you should also consider the buffering on the vim side (probably :-) 16:10:18 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-18-50.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:10:56 if slimv supports dedicated streams, then use them, because that's what actually makes output faster in emacs 16:11:23 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.218] has joined #lisp 16:12:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:13:06 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:13:09 Is there any way I can print the full dependency list for an ASDF package? 16:13:41 stassats: it doesn't support them (_yet_) ... I'm currently exploring ... so, is there a way to get more data with each :write-string? 16:13:42 flip214: i agree with stassats. the drawback is that the output might be out-of-sync with anything else, notably input, otherwise it's quite bearable 16:15:34 argh .... _is_there_a_way_to_increase_the_size_of_:write-string_messages_????????? if yes, how is it done? thank you very much. 16:16:25 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:16:47 (setf (slot-value (swank::connection.user-output swank::*emacs-connection*) 'swank-backend::buffer) (make-string 16000)) 16:17:54 you only needed to answer a couple of questions, that is all 16:19:16 "do you want pepper? do you want salt?" -- "NO, JUST PASS ME MY TICKET, OKAY?" 16:20:06 -!- e-user [e-user@nat/nokia/x-mfrptwrxrjurcjtu] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:18 flip214: I've found that I can push megabytes of data back and forth to a Lisp using the Slime protocol. What problems are you running into? Ahh, your client is not Emacs or swank-client ... perhaps that's part of the problem? 16:21:57 dnolen [~davidnole@68-188-56-11.static.stls.mo.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:24:09 why is there an 'f' after variable-modifing keywords? like sef, rotatef and sd incf... 16:24:37 to tell them apart from other operators 16:24:43 ant the are not "keywords" 16:25:04 s/the/they/, s/ant/and/ 16:25:27 Tasser: that's because that take not only a variable, but a _place_, which is a Formc. 16:25:29 yeah, they're functions or macros :-) 16:25:31 Form. 16:25:37 They're macro. 16:26:28 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:26:58 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@68-188-56-11.static.stls.mo.charter.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:28:01 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 16:28:11 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:28:16 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:28:42 and push doesn't have f 16:28:47 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 16:29:03 there're no rules, and nobody knows what f originally stands for 16:29:06 -!- misterncw [~misterncw@82.71.241.25] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:29:27 codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:31:22 setf ~ _set_ter _f_orm? 16:31:37 or just set-form 16:31:41 TheNegativeOne [~TheNegati@client-66-116-3-52.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:35 set-funky 16:32:48 all other f's are rather meaningless, just an "f" as much as scheme's "!" 16:33:08 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:33:25 (meaningless in terms of what f expands to, ofcourse) 16:34:44 codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:45 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05E1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 16:35:33 h4r1 [~dbs@141.212.244.80] has joined #lisp 16:35:39 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:36:56 Here is a small function (defun binary-func (x y func) (eval func)) 16:37:20 The idea is that I should be able to pass any equation as a parameter to that function and it should evaluate that equation 16:37:32 (binary-func 5 6 '(+ x y)) 16:38:02 When I try to do that, it keeps complaining that I am trying to take the value of unbound variable 16:38:30 As per my understanding eval is supposed to evaluate the value of the vars as it sees in the local stack of the function binary-func 16:38:36 (defun binary-func (x y func) (eval `(let ((x ,x) (y ,y)) ,func))) 16:38:51 eval evaluate in a null-lexical environment 16:38:58 oh 16:39:10 Is there a better way to do what I am trying to do? 16:39:29 yes 16:39:44 h4r1: and what are you trying to do? 16:39:49 What is it? 16:40:01 Ok, I am trying to implement a search algorithm as part of my assignment 16:40:02 (defun binary-func (x y func) (funcall func x y)) 16:40:32 rwiker func could be anything like x itself 16:40:37 which basicall means that binary-func already exists 16:40:42 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 16:40:46 h4r1: and which part of it needs such a thing? 16:41:01 pnq [~nick@AC81EC66.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:41:01 pcavs1 [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has joined #lisp 16:41:19 So given a sequence and a list of functions, I need to search for the functions that explain the sequence 16:41:40 Functions could be anything like (+ x y) or x or (+ (* x x) (* y y) 16:41:47 hello lispers 16:42:00 -!- pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:03 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Disconnected by services] 16:42:11 -!- kami` is now known as kami 16:42:13 h4r1: convert them into (lambda (x y) (+ x y)) 16:42:14 There is a function that auto-generates list of functions by parsing the tree so there are huge number of thm 16:42:24 the syntax for those would be (lambda (x y) (+ x y)) and (lambda (x y) (+ (* x x) (* y y)) 16:43:01 The functions themselves are auto-generated so that's not an option 16:43:04 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:27 but it is: (defun make-function (form) (compile nil `(lambda (x y) ,form))) 16:43:37 if the functions are auto-generated, then they can be auto--transformed... 16:43:38 (funcall (make-functions '(+ x y)) 5 5) => 10 16:43:48 So I am in a sense implementing the lambda function that you are describing above 16:43:50 using eval 16:43:50 s/make-functions/make-function/ 16:44:05 with eval it'll be dog slow 16:44:13 ok 16:44:16 eval is evil; if you have a smaller hammer, use it 16:44:18 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 16:44:36 make-function sounds to be interesting 16:44:42 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:42 Let me read up on it and see if I can use it 16:44:45 manuel__ [~manuel_@p5792050E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:54 -!- ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@pool-96-233-179-168.spfdma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:44:54 ianmcorvidae [~ianmcorvi@fsf/member/ianmcorvidae] has joined #lisp 16:44:58 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:45:33 holycopralite [~ray.still@12.104.148.2] has joined #lisp 16:45:47 joast [~rick@76.178.187.139] has joined #lisp 16:45:52 another option is to generate closures to evaluate the function in conjunction with the printable representation 16:48:18 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p57921FDE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:48:18 -!- manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 16:49:40 -!- nanoc [~conanhome@186.123.66.177] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:49:49 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:50:36 OK, this code is fugly. Can anyone give me a prettier version? 16:50:38 -!- SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@nom26865d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:50:44 (loop 16:50:44 for y from y1 to y2 16:50:44 do (loop 16:50:44 for x from x1 to x2 16:50:44 do (setf (aref cells y x) :empty))) 16:51:05 loke: Use the pastebin! 16:51:09 yeah, sorry 16:51:23 I realised my mistage the second I pressed enter 16:51:26 it won't happen again 16:51:28 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:51:48 loke: looks ok 16:53:20 stassats: no other way to initial a subsection of a 2D array to a specific value? 16:53:26 loke: is that code for initializing stuff? 16:53:28 "initialise" 16:53:28 ... 16:53:47 jtza8: well, yeah, but not at array creation 16:53:49 Use make-array to do that automatically. 16:53:50 loke: no clearer ways 16:53:55 Ah 16:53:56 K 16:54:26 Otherwise 16:54:50 You could save two lines by putting for dirrectly after (loop. 16:54:51 :P 16:55:10 It's part of my CL-GDATA code. Basically, when I request a cell range for Google Spreadsheets, it only gives me the cells that actually contains content. So, I initialise the array using :initial-element :UNSET, and then prior to loading a cell range, I set all the cells I've requested to :EMPTY 16:55:20 Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 16:55:45 what you showed is the best way to do it 16:56:30 Yep, there's one or two different ways I can think of, but not faster/better/cleaner. 16:56:43 The code is on line 102 in this file: 16:56:44 http://code.google.com/p/cl-gdata/source/browse/src/spreadsheets.lisp 16:57:24 http://code.google.com/p/cl-gdata/source/browse/src/spreadsheets.lisp#102 16:57:47 oooh. pretty :-) 16:57:53 I've never used google code before :-) 16:58:20 noname [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:23 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:23 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 16:58:23 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 16:58:24 that's a common feature for code viewers 16:58:42 -!- noname is now known as Guest79869 16:58:48 now, you could make the code better by splitting it into several functions 16:58:59 Anyway, if anyone has any criticisms with regards to the way I've dne stuff in this library, I'd love to hear it 16:59:07 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:59:26 -!- TheNegativeOne [~TheNegati@client-66-116-3-52.consolidated.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:59:32 for example, that loop should live in its own function 16:59:53 it might be betetr to use xpath:number-value instead of parse-integer and dom-attribute 17:00:24 rwiker: thanks. I'll do that 17:00:29 loke: As for loop itself, it can also be written like so: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124740 17:00:35 s/might/*might*/ :-) 17:01:19 jtza8: yeah, in that case I definitely agree with you. I've just always written LOOPs by putting the LOOP on its own row. 17:01:45 Anyway, I'm already starting to vomit on XML. :-) 17:02:07 Yeah, I loove XML. 17:02:24 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p5792050E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 17:03:02 *jtza8* feels compelled to indicate that he was being sarcastic. :D 17:03:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 17:03:39 and for generating get-parameteres, i use something like this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124740#1 17:03:41 jtza8: No need. The only other explanation would be that you'd be insane, and since I never talk to insane people, that alternative was eliminated. 17:03:54 so that you can write (make-query-string :a 1 :b 2) => "?A=1&B=2" 17:04:28 -!- anaumov [~anaumov@opensuse/member/Alexander-Naumov] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:04:34 loke: All Lisp users are sane, everyone else is insane. I'm sure of that. :B 17:04:55 I've seen some insane ones, mostly on c.l.c :-) 17:05:10 jtza8: I think ELT and NTH is a counterexample to your hypothesis 17:05:19 you can change format string to "~a~(~a~)=~a" to get "?a=1..." 17:05:30 Wow, well yes so it is. 17:05:48 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:05:54 Oooh. pretty :-) 17:06:08 npoektop [~npoektop@213.141.130.13] has joined #lisp 17:06:11 I'm going to work a bit more on this, and then I'll give commit right to anyone that wants it :-) 17:06:46 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-30-209.w92-131.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 17:06:57 loke: well, if it has to be a 2d-array, it's hard to see how else to do this. 17:07:06 stassats: i use something like that too, but i downcase symbols and pass strings as-is, as sometimes I need to construct garbage like "query.RepeatCount=1&loginName=bob" 17:07:20 but different data structures can handle that sort of operation better. 17:07:43 pkhuong: it doesn't _have_ to be, of course. But the in-memory representation of a spreadsheet is just about one of the few actual uses for a 2D array in lisp :-) 17:08:03 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.106] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:08:04 really? 17:08:13 -!- nha [~prefect@imamac13.epfl.ch] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:08:25 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.106] has joined #lisp 17:08:29 -!- pdo [~pdo@217.33.254.141] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:23 TheNegativeOne [~TheNegati@client-66-116-3-52.consolidated.net] has joined #lisp 17:09:29 -!- TheNegativeOne [~TheNegati@client-66-116-3-52.consolidated.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:11:21 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.2.202] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:11:34 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@187.80-202-32.nextgentel.com] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 17:12:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:12:54 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:13:07 loke: a sparse matrix scales better in general. roughly with the number of elements and not with the highest coordinates of used elements in the sheet. 17:13:24 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:13:48 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 17:14:01 spacefrogg: Probably, but I don't feel like implementing such thing right now. Do you know of an implementation I can use that is available? 17:14:14 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 17:14:53 maybe use association lists as a fist solution 17:15:03 first 17:15:27 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 17:15:27 another way and with only one loop would be to use row-major-aref, but index calculations would it be a bit harder 17:16:02 stassats: not that much harder... 17:16:29 No real benefit other than losing the inner loop though. Performance wise there is little difference. 17:16:41 loke: http://aleph0.info/spartns/ 17:17:07 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:16 it even works on poplog! 17:17:32 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-237.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:17:45 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.15] has joined #lisp 17:17:46 -!- altsrid is now known as _srid 17:18:05 stassats: nice 17:18:09 I'll look at it 17:18:12 loke: you're querying over HTTP; no performance difference. 17:18:15 looks like the right thing to use here 17:18:36 loke: you should say "nice" to Xach 17:18:43 Yeah, 17:18:45 nice, Xach :-) 17:19:20 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:19:24 Bike1 [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 17:19:26 But now it's well past 01:00 here, and I need to get some sleep :-) 17:19:45 spartns need no sleep 17:19:55 I found that by using my personal index of all symbols in all Quicklisp projects. 17:19:56 fair enough 17:20:01 *Xach* should publish that index 17:20:13 I am on leave tomorrow, but I intended to get out on the mountain bike track tomorrow 17:20:13 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-138.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:19 femlisp also has sparse matrix symbols, but i think femlisp is ffi-based. 17:20:43 I'm already dependent on FFI thanks to Drakma :-( 17:20:52 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:21:09 It's not the ffi itself, it's that a user would need libfemlisp.so installed or whatever. 17:21:17 ssl is probably more common. 17:21:20 Oh really? 17:21:26 Then screw it :-) 17:21:27 you're dependent on FFI because you have to interface with your OS kernel 17:21:39 no point in denying yourself 17:21:49 no point in not rewriting it in lisp 17:21:50 seangrove [~user@114.205.211.236] has joined #lisp 17:21:52 Well, nothing would stop someone from implementing SSL in Lisp now would it? 17:21:55 (the OS) 17:22:04 SteveG [~Steve@c-71-195-234-222.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:22:06 loke: sanity 17:22:20 stassats: Plenty of insane people on c.l.c 17:22:24 loke: extreme difficulty, really 17:22:27 Oops 17:22:29 c.l.l 17:22:30 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A33B3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:22:41 a hefty paycheck can help lose my sanity 17:22:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:22:58 even so, the number of eyeballs OpenSSL has gotten is astronomical 17:23:06 true 17:23:39 and it doesn't depend on the security of a complex runtime environment, either 17:23:39 cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.165.91] has joined #lisp 17:24:23 i guess everyone thinks "there's so much users, somebody else must've reviewed OpenSSL's code, so i don't have to", and in the end nobody actually did 17:25:01 the tiny number of CVEs being issued (though with some regularity) against openssl would indicate that there are people looking at it (: 17:25:24 that's why it's tiny, nobody's looking at it! 17:25:45 dlowe: it does. and it failed by doing so. 17:25:47 and that it is a high-value target would improve the likelihood of a thorough review by researchers, many of whom are actively trying to break it (: 17:26:11 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:26:16 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-219-13.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:01 dlowe: still, at the last ECLM David McLain presented a nice distributed DB(Okeanos IIRC) for which he implemented a custom crypto because he doesn't trust openssl after reading its code 17:27:25 pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has joined #lisp 17:27:26 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81EC66.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:27:41 fe[nl]ix: That's fine, but he's placing a high trust value on David McLain, one that I don't necessarily think is earned 17:27:42 sounds like you shouldn't trust okeanos without reading its crypto code either (: 17:28:24 antifuchs: were you there ? I can't remember 17:28:40 dlowe: how did openssl earn your trust? 17:29:34 fe[nl]ix: I don't think so ): 17:29:51 Adlai asked him if he considered open-sourceing it, David got a bit angry 17:30:16 ahahaha ouch 17:30:32 -!- pcavs1 [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:30:40 something about 12000 man-hours invested 17:30:47 spacefrogg: by withstanding a lot of attacks for many years 17:30:57 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:31:49 -!- Guest79869 is now known as na[k] 17:32:10 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:32:45 -!- Joreji_ [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:33:09 i hope you didn't use debian the in last couple of years then. 17:33:36 -!- h4r1 [~dbs@141.212.244.80] has quit [Quit: h4r1] 17:33:37 sa$469 17:33:50 sry 17:33:54 spacefrogg: that's not openssl's fault, now is it :p 17:34:55 it is because the debian maintainer had need to alter the code of openssl. 17:35:33 they did it wrong but they had reason to do so 17:35:47 they didn't. It was a misunderstanding of valgrind output 17:36:00 and a completely botched fix 17:36:20 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:36:27 it was and it was garbled code. you don't need valgrind if you can read and understand the code 17:36:33 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:36:43 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:36:46 which wasn't a fix, because there wasn't actually anything wrong with uninitialized data when you're looking to fill it with entropy 17:36:48 ... 17:37:00 okaaaay. 17:37:21 dlowe: sorry. didn't mean to offend you. 17:37:24 it's all wrong, we will just have to start using invisible ink 17:37:27 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:37:51 I'm not offended. 17:37:53 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 17:38:43 :) 17:39:37 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:40:37 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:42:23 -!- cesarbp [~cbp@189.247.165.91] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:43:44 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:50 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:44:24 i'm offended. 17:44:25 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Client Quit] 17:44:31 now i'm not 17:44:38 Xach: You there? 17:44:41 wow, people get over things quickly. ;P 17:44:48 hi reb` 17:45:27 na[k], I'm offend by your lack of conviction 17:45:37 pfft. ;P 17:45:57 well, you should have seen me yesterday -- i wasn't alive until today. 17:46:03 Just wanted to mention the existence of https://github.com/brown/lisp-gflags 17:46:07 this organic business is tricky 17:46:52 -!- bauerd [~bauerd@178-26-242-87-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:47:12 reb`: would you consider adding author, license, and descriptive info to the defsystem form? 17:47:25 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:47:27 sure thing 17:47:41 reb`: and maybe adding more info to the README, like who wrote it, where it's from, the license, where to learn more? 17:48:00 na[k], well, then I shall forgive you due to your inexperience 17:48:10 Yes, it's hot off the press .... 17:48:24 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-219-13.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:48:24 ... will devote some time to making it nicer. 17:49:33 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-219-13.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:58 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 17:50:59 When dl writes his own, then there will be 7 command-line processing libraries. 17:51:27 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 17:52:12 Xach, dl? 17:52:37 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:53:23 Guthur: dl. 17:53:38 funnily when I seen that I came to the conclusion that google suffers from the most extreme case of NIH 17:53:39 Xach, ah 17:58:32 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 18:00:28 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:01:28 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.36] has joined #lisp 18:02:28 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:02:35 h4r1 [~dbs@caen-cse-141-212-202-114.wireless.engin.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 18:04:23 urandom__ [~user@p548A320D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:35 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-189-181.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 18:04:41 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:05:14 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 18:05:45 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:07:28 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:09:23 lurker-x [~androirc@32.150.71.168] has joined #lisp 18:11:34 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has joined #lisp 18:12:54 HG` [~HG@p5DC05E1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:32 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@nom28399d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:16:14 -!- RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: RomyEatsDrupal] 18:21:11 Xach: do you have a list somewhere for all QL packages, listing on which implementations you tried them and which ones failed to compile? 18:21:34 ehu: not really 18:22:12 ok. that's fine, I was just wondering if it's only ABCL which chokes on LET-PLUS 18:22:16 The quicklisp dist represents a list of all projects that built on SBCL/Linux/amd64 with lots of extra foreign libraries installed. 18:22:31 It's a little unfair but was the easiest thing to start with. 18:22:51 nah no problem. 18:23:12 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@nom28399d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:23:14 ehu: WFM on clisp, allegro, and ccl on linux 18:23:16 but it'd be great to have a listing of packages and their success on different implementations. 18:23:25 LET-PLUS? 18:23:25 ehu: i agree! i wish someone would do that. 18:23:26 oh. 18:23:32 -!- h4r1 [~dbs@caen-cse-141-212-202-114.wireless.engin.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: h4r1] 18:23:32 maybe Xach can implement it on the plane to Amsterdam 18:23:50 should take him long enough to get to amsterdam :-) 18:24:06 drdo [~drdo@89.180.116.15] has joined #lisp 18:24:52 benny` [~benny@i577A3B02.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 18:25:01 Xach: the problem that I'm running into looks like a macro-expansion problem. It may well be ABCL's problem, but I've not seen macroexpansion issues in the nearly 3 years since I took over... 18:25:49 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3E2B.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:53 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:25:59 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:26:13 xcv [~xcv@hermes.logmenn.com] has joined #lisp 18:26:37 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:26:43 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-99-62-137-105.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:27:37 -!- benny` is now known as benny 18:27:57 maybe Xach can implement it on the /boat/ to Amsterdam 18:29:26 I considered that, actually, but it's expensive in terms of time and money. 18:29:32 First class flight is also right out. 18:29:46 h4r1 [~dbs@caen-cse-141-212-202-114.wireless.engin.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 18:30:08 -!- h4r1 [~dbs@caen-cse-141-212-202-114.wireless.engin.umich.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:34 -!- i_zim_esq is now known as Rabbi_Skand3r 18:33:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-49-101.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:33:52 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-49-101.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 18:33:52 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:38:31 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 18:39:42 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:41:07 marsell [~marsell@120.20.162.228] has joined #lisp 18:49:47 Qworkescence [~quad@71-212-169-133.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:49:58 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@71-212-169-133.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:49:58 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:52:49 -!- xcv [~xcv@hermes.logmenn.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:53:50 -!- Rabbi_Skand3r is now known as evil_bankster 18:55:35 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:57:31 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:01:25 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:02:22 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:04:11 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@168.16.143.26] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:05:58 -!- c_arenz [arenz@nat/ibm/x-oqrxwoyqsvpwxfxp] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:07:56 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 19:15:04 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:15:50 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:16:10 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:24:16 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:24:29 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 19:29:00 RomyEatsDrupal [~stickycak@209-6-17-16.c3-0.nat-ubr1.sbo-nat.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 19:32:50 jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #lisp 19:33:09 Has anyone used arrays with rank greater than 2 in anger? If so, for what kinds of problems? 19:33:55 How about fewer than rank 1? 19:34:26 Every non-array can be identified with a rank-0 array. 19:34:40 (though Lisp doesn't, of course) 19:36:49 Alas, freenode does not appear to have an #apl channel. 19:39:38 vsync_ [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 19:40:04 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@38.104.6.150] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:41:25 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:43:11 I guess it wasn't so much "anger" as "desire to trick people" 19:43:14 jcowan: rank 3, for a 3d 4-in-line college AI 19:44:50 one-element weak arrays/vectors can be used as weak pointers (i think trivial-garbage does this in some implementations) 19:45:08 jcowan_ [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has joined #lisp 19:45:46 -!- jcowan [c6b912cf@gateway/web/freenode/ip.198.185.18.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:45:53 or was it a 3d 4-tic-tac-toe? can't remember 19:46:34 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.106] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:46:35 Mmm, fair enoug. 19:46:39 enough, even 19:46:44 ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has joined #lisp 19:48:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:49:33 -!- na[k] [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:51:22 gabnet [~gabnet@149.63.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:37 abcl.org is now a domain pointer to common-lisp.net/project/armedbear/ 19:53:08 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:54:33 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:43 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:56:55 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:57:03 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:58:03 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.47] has joined #lisp 19:58:16 z1l0g [jgw@miku.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 19:58:23 hola 19:58:26 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:58:40 have a make-array question 19:59:11 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:59:32 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:34 shouldn't the following return (print) "Hi" instead of #(#\H #\i) ? 19:59:52 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:59:59 (make-array 2 :element-type 'string-char :initial-contents '(#\H #\i)) 20:00:43 or maybe it implementation-dependent? 20:01:10 clisp returns the former; ecl the latter 20:01:37 is string-char a valid type? thought is should be just 'character 20:01:47 z1l0g: string-char does not name a standard type. 20:01:57 that's the example in my textbook 20:02:02 What textbook? 20:02:13 'character should be good 20:02:23 The textbook is outdated or in error. 20:02:39 yeah, actually character produced the expected result in ECL 20:02:50 could be; c 1990 20:03:16 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:03:17 clisp has an implementation-specific type called STRING-CHAR. 20:03:23 EXT:STRING-CHAR, that is. 20:03:59 I see. So, probably not an ECL bug ;) 20:04:14 Nope. 20:04:22 thanks 20:04:33 -!- z1l0g [jgw@miku.sdf.org] has quit [Quit: That's it for today] 20:04:34 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:05:03 *|3b|* notes that 'string-char made it into an example in clhs array-in-bounds-p if not into the rest of the spec 20:06:16 ah, http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/lw50/CLHS/Issues/iss026_w.htm discusses it 20:06:44 -!- Guest59870 is now known as Jabberwockey 20:07:03 *Xach* wonders which 1990 lisp book it was 20:08:15 -!- jcowan_ is now known as jcowan 20:11:02 90's in the end tail of teh period when everyone thought lisp/prolog would lead to strong ai any second now 20:11:30 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 20:12:49 it still will! 20:12:56 heh 20:13:23 the problem is nobody can give a real formal description of intelligence 20:14:19 *maxm-* spent 2 years living with his grandparents in the rural villedge, but I was exposed to computers and wanted to learn.. Local library had exactly 2 books related to computers, weirdly enough one was "Ada in 7-tier communication systems" and another one "fuzzy logic: something something in lisp" 20:14:26 Perhaps because intelligence isn't a formal phenomenon as well. 20:15:00 I devoured both books over the summer, and I still remember thinking "wtf is that" about the 2nd part of the lisp book (only thing I knew was basic back then) 20:15:25 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:15:37 Ada book was pretty cool tho. It was like an early attempt at UML, and explain parallelism/concurrency very well 20:16:06 -!- nachtwandler [~nachtwand@p4FE32263.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:18:41 -!- vsync_ [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has quit [Quit: ircII EPIC4-2.10 -- Are we there yet?] 20:19:00 vsync_ [~vsync@24.173.173.82] has joined #lisp 20:22:40 ChibaPet [~mason@38.104.6.150] has joined #lisp 20:23:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:24:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:32:50 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.110.176] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:35:26 bauerd [~bauerd@178-26-242-87-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 20:37:44 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 20:39:27 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:39:43 -!- bauerd [~bauerd@178-26-242-87-dynip.superkabel.de] has left #lisp 20:39:52 drdo` [~drdo@89.180.121.20] has joined #lisp 20:40:03 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-219-13.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:40:35 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-177-219-13.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:41:25 -!- drdo [~drdo@89.180.116.15] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:41:32 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05E1B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 20:42:33 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:42:36 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-237.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:45:50 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.130.128.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:47:07 Is there any fft library for common lisp? 20:48:29 http://lmgtfy.com/?q=fft+library+common+lisp 20:49:15 i found cl-fft , but what i would like to do is to analy sound in real time a use that values to control animation in my opengl app 20:49:20 *analyze 20:50:33 which of all the fft libraries should be better suited for my needs? 20:51:10 The cliki link has a couple pointers as well. I'm not sure what if any of that meets your needs, though - I'm sadly lacking in math skills. 20:51:20 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 20:52:33 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:54:57 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:32 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@2.148.2.148.tmi.telenormobil.no] has joined #lisp 20:56:59 drdo` [~drdo@89-180-121-20.net.novis.pt] has joined #lisp 20:59:23 -!- drdo [~drdo@89.180.121.20] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:01:31 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:02:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:02:35 -!- ccorn [~ccorn@84-53-64-50.adsl.unet.nl] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:03:13 -!- gabnet [~gabnet@149.63.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Quit: Quitte] 21:05:19 rme [~rme@50.43.161.205] has joined #lisp 21:05:21 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] 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[~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:08:19 gemelen [~shelta@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 22:08:56 -!- benny [~benny@i577A3B02.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:09:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:11:05 whoops [u549@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-yscwjiisrcsyswzx] has joined #lisp 22:12:38 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:13:52 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:16:11 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 22:19:33 peterhil` [~peterhil@GZYYKMMMDCLXXXVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 22:21:01 man I hate refactoring 22:21:13 man I love refactoring 22:21:19 always make me feel stupid for not writing stuff more generically initially 22:21:40 I don't actually believe anyone is able to do that. 22:21:53 truth 22:22:00 and if I felt particularly feisty that day, I'd call them a liar to their faces for pretending they could. 22:22:07 even tho I learned that trying too generic too early is usually bad for rapid development, since you end up with a lot of wasted ideas and its not generic enough in the end 22:22:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.177.47] has quit [Quit: Offline] 22:22:17 the whole idea of refactoring is that only after you've written something you know what should have been there in the first place 22:22:25 ^ 22:22:46 well refactoring just does not give same positive feedback of "I accomplished" something.. My code looks better (which is kind of subjective) but system does same thing it did 2 weeks ago 22:23:01 if you write something very generically to begin with, you'll later find out that it should have been more specialized (-: 22:23:03 too generic too early is the same as "I need to do X. I'll write a generic engine that can do X, Y, and Z first." 22:23:29 or you won't find out anything later because the generic thing won't get finished on time (: 22:23:48 better to invest time into tests and then refactoring (: 22:24:16 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:26:17 sykopomp: some domains are pre-factored for you. 22:26:54 pkhuong: are you thinking of anything in particular? 22:27:16 hi sykopomp 22:27:38 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.60.41] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:28:04 sykopomp: math. 22:28:26 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-179.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:28:46 What does progn stand for? 22:28:55 -!- pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:29:22 pcavs [~Adium@63.139.127.6] has joined #lisp 22:29:23 timack [~timack@hlfx56-2b-18.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:29:26 prog that returns the nth/last value. 22:29:30 tessier: it's like prog1 but for the nth. 22:29:34 ah 22:29:56 pkhuong: ah, the domain with the incomprehensible variable names (; 22:30:39 Math is all Greek to me. 22:31:51 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.185] has joined #lisp 22:32:41 marsell_ [~marsell@120.18.251.102] has joined #lisp 22:33:34 my situation I have a charting app, and initial implementation just has some basics, ie display price data as candlestick chart, and the set of objects is pretty limited, its window, chart, grid, x-axis, y-axis and underlaying data (a sequence of bars) 22:34:29 but now that I'm adding sub-windows and basically displaying of other objects then price data (ie arbitrary labels or shapes drawn by user), kind of requires a lot of refactoring 22:35:18 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.162.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:35:20 -!- marsell_ is now known as marsell 22:36:38 ie candlesticks become instance of chart-object, (draw-candles) becomes (draw ((obj candles-object))), the old (draw-candles) becomes (map nil #'draw (chart-objects subwindow)) etc... Kind of just running to stay in place, but unavoidable kind of 22:36:52 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:37:06 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:37:50 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:52 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:44:12 psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has joined #lisp 22:45:24 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 22:47:32 -!- lurker-x [~androirc@32.150.71.168] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:49:44 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 22:49:47 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.135.7] has joined #lisp 22:50:07 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:54:30 -!- kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has quit [Ping timeout: 608 seconds] 22:56:52 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:57:49 -!- 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