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01:25:37 it's eluding my google-fu 01:25:47 documentation, information, whatever 01:26:11 sykopomp: Yeah, that one always eludes me, too. 01:26:30 sykopomp: drew mcdermott's ytools iirc 01:26:48 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:26:59 Xach: thanks :) 01:27:14 de nada 01:29:40 topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has joined #lisp 01:33:04 -!- Spring-heeled is now known as SpringheeledJake 01:33:24 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has joined #lisp 01:34:26 CrEddy [~velleity@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has joined #lisp 01:34:49 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:35:01 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 01:35:01 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 01:36:11 H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC8202.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:38 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:39:48 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC8956.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:40:13 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=14&ved=0CC8QFjADOAo&url=http%3A%2F%2Fbolt.berkeley.edu%2Fws_07%2FJack%2520Harris%2520-%2520Mind%2520modelling.ppt&ei=2l9tToC6IcaSswbrppyxBA&usg=AFQjCNHSzivWCfV5WGegYLvvGHmi2vfcIw 01:40:41 bolt.berkeley.edu/ws_07/Jack%20Harris%20-%20Mind%20modelling.ppt <-- better. A case of SBCL/w32 used with BOINC 01:42:05 -!- smithzv [~smithzv@63-253-113-194.ip.mcleodusa.net] has left #lisp 01:43:02 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@53.sub-75-203-117.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:43:09 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@53.sub-75-203-117.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 01:48:55 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:49:07 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:03 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@53.sub-75-203-117.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 01:57:04 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:57:38 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@53.sub-75-203-117.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:01:07 -!- coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:06:31 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:06:39 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 02:07:27 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 02:07:48 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:08:05 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:08:21 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1877] 02:08:52 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:09:33 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:13:53 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.74.19] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:16:59 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@c-98-248-241-85.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:17:34 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:00 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA22.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:19:59 p_l|backup: 7.5k users ;) 02:25:02 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@53.sub-75-203-117.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 02:25:08 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@53.sub-75-203-117.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:45 elfrosch [~Brnt@p5485744E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:31:11 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:32:46 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 02:32:59 -!- syrinx_ is now known as joshlegs 02:33:19 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:33:21 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 02:33:43 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:33:43 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 02:33:43 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 02:35:46 -!- joshlegs is now known as release 02:38:26 -!- release is now known as syrinx_ 02:41:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:42:35 -!- elfrosch [~Brnt@p5485744E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:48:14 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.44] has joined #lisp 02:49:16 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:14 coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:02:14 -!- coyo [kvirc@pool-71-164-173-28.dllstx.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:02:14 coyo [kvirc@unaffiliated/bandu] has joined #lisp 03:20:10 pnq [~nick@AC812BC5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 03:27:57 daniel [~daniel@p5B3266F1.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:29:41 -!- daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082BE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:39:36 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:46:13 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:47:11 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:47:30 What's wrong with this command: CL-USER> (quickproject:make-project "~/projects/common-lisp/" :depends-on '(cl-opengl)) 03:47:45 I get is no package named "QUICKPROJECT" . [Condition of type CCL::NO-SUCH-PACKAGE] 03:48:13 -!- BrokenCog [~daniel@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:49:19 as an error, not really sure what I'm doing wrong. It's the same command I used earlier with some substitution, so I'm not sure what I'm screwing up. Any tips would be appreciated. 03:50:58 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:52:10 did you load quickproject first? 03:52:54 kennyd: no, thank you for pointing that out. 03:54:40 jpop [~jpop@188.125.1.196] has joined #lisp 03:54:56 hello 03:55:58 what is the name of that lisp implementation that creates relatively small standalone executables? 03:56:55 <|3b|> clisp or ecl maybe? 03:57:55 yes I thought of ecl. didnt know clisp can compete with it there? 03:59:01 *|3b|* mostly just uses sbcl and ignores executable size, but seems like clisp was reasonably small last time i checked 04:04:09 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:48 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:06:15 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-137-65.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:13 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-113-95.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit 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I have strange error message every time it tries to ac - "error in process filter". this seemingly slows down emacs for several seconds 07:09:15 funnily enough, this only happens when it auto-starts 07:09:22 buguldey [~buguldey@client-203-17.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 07:09:41 -!- kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:11:28 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:12:04 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:12:22 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:18:17 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:19:01 kushal [kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:22:21 -!- jpop [~jpop@46.188.181.184] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 07:23:53 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 07:24:22 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:24:57 jpop [~jpop@46.188.181.184] 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TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: nyan nyan meh] 09:27:22 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:33:36 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.134] has joined #lisp 09:37:58 oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-173-165.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 09:41:10 -!- guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:41:18 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 09:42:13 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:42:27 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 09:46:36 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:47:08 good morning 09:49:25 guaqua [gua@xob.kapsi.fi] has joined #lisp 09:50:54 hi mvilleneuve 09:51:06 will you be coming to the ECLM ? 09:58:06 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:58:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has 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[~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 10:47:50 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-173-165.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:49:03 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:05 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:52:39 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f762510.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 10:52:41 Hello! 10:59:58 Mohikaner [~moe@stgt-5d84302c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:01:55 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:06:26 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:21:07 easyE [SNZZlN4m44@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 11:28:04 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 11:28:24 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-135-204-60.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 11:31:29 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-aqadnlgscrzvghsu] has 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[~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 11:51:05 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:55:19 Does somebody know whether cl-ppcre works on an array of (unsigned-byte 8)? I'd like to read and parse file, but want to avoid the quadruple memory requirement of 'character 11:55:39 flip214: just how large a file are you reading? 11:55:43 I "know" that a well-formed file is ASCII only, so there's no concern about UTF8 and similar 11:56:13 the bytes have to be parsed to text at some point, because text is what regexps operate on. 11:56:16 well, it's not the memory concern alone, but I'd hope for a faster reading via read-sequence - instead of looking at each byte individually 11:56:33 I strongly suspect that you have nothing to worry about, performance-wise. 11:56:38 Ralith: not entirely true, I can use RE over simple bytes, too 11:56:49 you can use what? 11:56:55 bytes are numbers. 11:57:05 regexps operate on characters. 11:57:24 this isn't an arbitrary distinction introduces by lisp, but a very meaningful semantic one. 11:57:25 -!- plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-93-227.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:57:29 plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-93-227.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:57:43 flip214: you could probably use flexi-streams to make an ASCII-reading stream 11:58:07 conversion ASCII->Unicode is mostly O(1) 11:58:33 p_l|backup: but still with 4 times the memory use, plus one for the input, right? hmmm ... 11:58:42 flip214: really, just write your code the simple way and worry about speed if and only if your program runs too slow and profiling says it's because of the regexps. 11:59:20 Ralith: a "character" in lisp is just a number. the bytes in the file are numbers. so, while you might want to see a qualitative difference, I want to say "just match it" in this case ;) 11:59:32 flip214: a character in lisp is not a number. 11:59:34 flip214: no, a character in lisp is not "just a number" 11:59:50 Although the char-code of a character is a number. 12:00:01 but good luck getting any guarantees about which. 12:00:06 Characters have all sorts of exciting properties like 'repertoir' which no-one uses. 12:00:19 Ralith: ascii should work, I think. 12:00:45 flip214: depends on all sorts of factors. 12:00:55 I don't assume anything about characters with associated number >= 128 ... but on the systems I expect a superset of ASCII. 12:01:21 flip214: regardless, you are micro-optimizing something that is slmot certainly not a real issue. 12:01:25 almost 12:03:02 flip: Remember that you also have base-char. 12:03:03 well, if there's a cl-ppcre maintainer listening, it's a feature wish ... using (unsigned-byte 8) as type. I'd even tell that at regex-creation time, so that the "right" array accesses can be compiled in. 12:03:18 And simple-base-string, and so on. 12:03:51 hmmm, perhaps that's easy enough ... thank's, will try. 12:04:19 flip214: why are you so concerned about the performance of this? 12:04:44 flip: Welcom'e. 12:05:36 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 12:07:22 Ralith: perhaps just because I'm taking an interest ... just want to know what possible bottlenecks I can easily avoid ... 12:07:33 jmbr [~jmbr@curio.mat.ucm.es] has joined #lisp 12:07:52 flip214: why do you think this is likely to be a bottleneck? 12:08:34 if/when you see there's a performance issue, you could use profiling to detect where the bottleneck occurs and then optimize those parts 12:09:01 Ralith: because there won't be much else code 12:09:20 flip214: and? 12:09:45 phadthai: of course ... but why start all this if a simple :element-type 'base-char might be enough to get decent performance? 12:10:21 Ralith: I don't plan to rewrite everything in assembler - but the easy, low-hanging fruits I want to get from the beginning on 12:10:21 flip214: without profiling, it is all guesswork 12:10:55 flip214: the guts of cl-ppcre are not very complex. you could implement something comparable for octet arrays without much hassle. 12:10:58 flip214: do you have any reason at all to believe that this code won't run so fast that it doesn't matter? 12:10:58 flip214: you're likely to get at the wrong low-hanging fruit at the expense of messing up your source code that way. 12:13:32 look ... perhaps I'm old-fashioned, but when I'm designing something I unintentionally think several layers deep. 12:14:13 flip214: can't relate that to "old-fashioned", but hey. 12:14:44 And having bytes => UCS-32 conversion, matching with a limited CPU cache, and having UCS-32 => byte conversion on output _when_all_this_can_be_avoided_with_a_simple_type_declaration_ ... I know which way I take. 12:15:39 buguldey1 [~buguldey@client-76-9.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 12:15:53 you may be right, and it's a bad, wrong, micro-optimization ... but at least _I_ need to think about problems several layers deep. Sorry for the noise, move on, get off my lawn ;) 12:16:50 reading cl-ppcre might be useful regardless of whether it's helpful in this specific case. 12:17:14 -!- buguldey [~buguldey@client-73-223.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:17:34 Xach: right ... but there are so many interesting libraries to read, and so little time .... 12:17:52 yeah, what is reading when you can also speculate what is fast! :) 12:19:04 flip214: i would single out cl-ppcre for special attention 12:20:23 H4ns: I don't want to speculate, I just asked for informed opinions ... perhaps somebody had a similar problem 12:21:36 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:22:36 flip214: How big is a word on your machine? 12:24:56 -!- Mohikaner [~moe@stgt-5d84302c.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 12:26:23 x14oy1n [~x14oy1n@120.42.244.151] has joined #lisp 12:26:59 serichsen: 64 bits ... and I hope for compiler improvements, so that the SSE units can be used for cl-ppcre, too ;) 12:28:08 why does that matter? 12:28:18 Joreji [~thomas@83-013.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 12:32:47 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:33:54 salvi [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 12:37:47 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:38:55 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.133] has joined #lisp 12:40:03 humasect [~humasect@d24-235-161-86.home1.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 12:41:52 flip214: How are characters laid out in the registers of your CPU? 12:44:01 I believe you want to drive the point that the same number of characters match into the registers, regardless of byte, base-char, character, etc 12:44:02 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:44:41 but it's a bit about memory bandwidth, cpu use (for needless byte <=> ucs-32 conversions), cpu caches (1st, 2nd, 3rd level), etc, too 12:45:16 My point would be more along the lines of "You want it, you make it." 12:47:45 if I find some time, in this life or the next one, I might .... 12:47:48 flip214: Would going down to 4 bits be even better? 12:47:55 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-231-141.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:14 (assuming that you only have so few distinct characters) 12:50:46 serichsen: well, 4 is not enough ... 7 would work, but then most architectures are not too efficient in converting 8bit-bytes into 7bit-packets ... of course, a 64bit register could store even 9 characters! 12:51:21 please don't (try to) make fun of me. 12:51:31 flip214: Would storing more characters per register make the code run faster? 12:54:26 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:54:32 flip214: it's not that bad. 3 shift/mask rounds. 12:54:49 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:55:29 serichsen: There are optimizations for string search; and I seem to remember having read some general-RE optimizations for CPUs with more bits, too 12:55:59 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 12:56:53 perhaps it was this? http://www.dcc.uchile.cl/~gnavarro/ps/algor04.2.pdf 12:57:03 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:57:10 just a quick google search, didn't read the whole paper .... but it might have been what I read some time ago 12:59:28 It's just like in cryptanalysis ... algorithmic improvements cannot be undone, everything just gets faster/better 12:59:55 henry spencer's regexp library is considered pretty fast, and can be specified to work both on byte arrays and largers. Writing bindings shouldn't be that bad. 13:00:54 oudeis [~oudeis@82.80.128.199] has joined #lisp 13:01:13 pkhuong: I don't think I have seen such a proof. 13:02:05 [tomita parsers] 13:02:17 beach: that's... unsettling (: 13:02:46 And as I recall, there are some restrictions that the Earley algorithm doesn't have. 13:02:55 But all that is beginning to fade from my memory. 13:03:11 Perhaps Earley can handle ambiguity and Tomita not? 13:03:37 Then there is the question of recognizer vs parser. 13:04:08 -!- df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:04:51 df_aldur [~df@aldur.bowerham.net] has joined #lisp 13:05:02 both can made to return parse forests. 13:06:49 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-92-93.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:08:52 Coded in some interesting way, yes. 13:09:27 ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has joined #lisp 13:09:34 Since there can be an infinite number of parse trees. 13:10:50 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-255-183.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:17:23 Xof: sorry for dramatizing the SBCL_HOME issue with something that turned out to be unrelated. 13:23:52 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-160-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:26 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 13:30:35 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 13:30:50 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 13:32:58 pnq [~nick@ACA298A9.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:38:08 I will never crticise pathnames again. 13:39:35 it's ok, they can take it 13:39:44 heh 13:41:11 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 13:42:08 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@82.80.128.199] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:42:47 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:43:06 -!- topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:43:47 user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has joined #lisp 13:44:21 edjka [~user@rrcs-50-75-78-61.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:44:55 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:45:14 oudeis [~oudeis@82.80.128.199] has joined #lisp 13:46:05 tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:31 ecl seems to have had a big uptick in popularity recently..anyone know why? 13:46:47 ZabaQ: I hadn't particulary noticed. How do you measure? 13:46:48 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.82.1-rdmsoft [XULRunner 1.8.0.9/2006120508]] 13:47:03 One random theory, not specifically related to ECL: school's back in session 13:48:25 Well, ecl targets iOS. 13:49:32 I have seen an uptick in common lisp questions on stack overflow, but a good chunk of them seem to be homework. 13:51:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@82.80.128.199] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:52:09 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-hoihesdifsvpjnqx] has joined #lisp 13:55:44 Xach: Hmm. Looking at the SF stats there was a big surge in ECLs interest at the beginning of the year then it fell away again.. 13:56:14 *Xach* wonders what is going on with ManKai Common Lisp 13:56:25 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.80.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:56:29 Gratituous Fork Common Lisp? :-) 13:57:30 it's good to keep people guessing about which CL is the best to use 13:58:01 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 13:58:11 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 13:58:17 Looks like it managed a point release. 13:58:47 -!- ehu [~ehuels@62.140.137.150] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:59:12 jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.56] has joined #lisp 13:59:16 ehu [~ehuels@62.140.137.150] has joined #lisp 14:00:30 -!- plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-93-227.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:00:34 plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-93-227.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 14:01:05 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.185] has joined #lisp 14:03:25 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:46 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:05:12 -!- ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:05:55 oudeis [~oudeis@82.80.128.199] has joined #lisp 14:06:24 ZabaQ: maybe it corresponds to the last official release 14:06:57 -!- edjka [~user@rrcs-50-75-78-61.nys.biz.rr.com] has left #lisp 14:08:25 _main_ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:37 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:10:59 -!- jpop [~jpop@46.188.181.184] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 14:11:36 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has joined #lisp 14:13:03 -!- _main_ is now known as __main__ 14:14:32 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.80.217] has joined #lisp 14:14:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:16:46 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@82.80.128.199] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:16:48 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:36 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 14:22:04 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 14:23:17 Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.29.174] has joined #lisp 14:23:45 silenius [~silenius@p4FFC99E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:23:54 ahoy. What's the proper way to modify initialization parameters for a class initialize-instance method? 14:23:55 i.e. 14:24:27 I'd like to specialize a class, and put an :around or :before method that will modify subtle things in the init-args param 14:24:44 but leave all initialize-instance processing to the base class 14:24:59 Shaftoe_: are you sure that you need an initialize-instance method? 14:25:01 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:25:16 Shaftoe_: sometimes it is sufficient to provide :default-initargs in the derived class 14:25:49 Shaftoe_: (or have different :initform specs in derived classes, although i find that confusing) 14:26:08 -!- humasect [~humasect@d24-235-161-86.home1.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:13 H4ns: can you outline the default-initargs scenario a bit? 14:27:03 Shaftoe_: in your derived class, you can have a :default-initargs that specifies different default initialization values for base class initargs. 14:27:09 to answer your first question: let's assume I have class A, and it is fed a data stream (e.g. a jpeg), and I'd like to flip one bit in the data stream but modify nothing else. I don't want to do any modifications to the code either. 14:27:32 how would I achieve that the easiest? 14:27:54 Shaftoe_: that would be a case for an initialize-instance method, i'd say 14:28:17 alright. that's why I went there too. 14:28:27 ok. so I'm trying to avoid destructively modifying the init-args parameter 14:28:34 which, in any case, I don't think works 14:28:46 Shaftoe_: no need to do that. you can just put your new initarg in front of the argument plist 14:28:49 but I'm stumped as to how I could pass down the modified init-args list 14:29:00 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 14:29:21 but how does the base class know to use my plist and not the original? 14:29:48 Shaftoe_: (apply #'call-next-method :the-initarg my-computed-new-value original-initargs) 14:30:09 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 14:30:23 erm, the instance is missing there, but you got the idea. 14:30:30 ah.. ok. that's somewhat what I was looking for (I was doing something similar but it broke). hold on while I try. 14:30:42 may i just continue, too? :) 14:30:44 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:31:00 sure 14:31:08 you weren't finished? 14:31:22 oh, I see. 14:31:30 i'd continue with whatever i do. but ask away if you have more questions :) 14:31:31 I meant: I shall be afk for a few moments. 14:31:49 no problem. didn't mean to halt execution of anything 14:38:40 Dybber [~dybber@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 14:38:44 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:38:47 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ecdptkjvhmcdeewu] has joined #lisp 14:39:03 -!- Dybber [~dybber@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:40:29 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:47:31 hum. why would I not be able to put the class name? 14:47:50 what do you mean by that? 14:47:51 I put it with a quote and it doesn't like it at runtime, I put it without and it doesn't like at compile time 14:48:10 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-123-139.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:17 (apply #'call-next-method 'foo init-args) 14:48:19 no joy 14:48:21 Shaftoe_: the right way to map class names to classes isn't to evaluate the symbol. 14:48:30 Shaftoe_: you need to pass the instance, not the class name 14:48:32 urandom__ [~user@p548A36C4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:48:35 That'll only give you whatever that variable is bound to, if any. 14:48:42 I see. 14:48:43 -!- anon [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.0.4 Insomnia http://www.kvirc.net/] 14:48:47 the instance of the class or the object? 14:48:52 -!- mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:48:57 jebus 14:49:01 what am I thinking. 14:49:05 alright. sorry everyone. 14:49:10 it's resolved. 14:49:50 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has 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[~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 16:03:20 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 16:04:22 Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.29.174] has joined #lisp 16:04:42 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:05:12 what's the best way to walk and copy a plist? (like mapcar) 16:05:21 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 16:05:27 Shaftoe_: what does it mean to copy a plist? 16:05:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:05:56 I want to do essentially exactly what mapc does, but for a plist 16:06:22 s/mapc/mapcar/ 16:06:38 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 16:07:27 by copy I mean, to create a modified plist that doesn't destructively modify the original plist 16:07:43 (loop for (key value) on plist by #'cddr collect (funcall fun key value)), i'd guess 16:07:51 well, not quite that, i guess. 16:07:59 nconcing, maybe? 16:09:36 Shaftoe_: I don't know of something built in. 16:09:56 Xach: ok thanks. I was just making sure I wasn't reinventing the wheel 16:10:42 -!- ehu [~ehuels@62.140.137.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:11:27 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 16:13:28 altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:40 (loop for (key value) on plist by #'cddr collect key collect (funcall fun key value)) 16:16:19 However, one property of p-list is that earlier keys shadow later keys. So when you map it or copy it, you might not want to process the shadowed keys... 16:17:39 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:18:14 Shaftoe_: what kind of processing do you think you might do on the plist? 16:18:43 -!- vert2 [~vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-mjhewpjwrwirhtbt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:28 -!- guther [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-axtiemfkqwzqcbyo] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:20:41 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:21:04 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 16:23:22 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.185] has quit [Quit: Offline] 16:25:02 I need to modify the headers of a hunchentoot request. 16:25:13 rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 16:25:17 I guess I could just prepend properties. 16:26:08 Prepending is the usual handy trick. 16:26:17 you wouldn't consider it wasteful? 16:26:33 I guess not eh, since constructively creating a new list is the same memory anyways. 16:26:39 yah, I'll just prepend and call it a day 16:26:50 hmm pushing in front of a list is also quite efficient 16:27:33 indeed. yeah, I'll be doing this in the end. 16:28:40 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:29:01 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 16:29:01 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 16:29:01 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 16:29:44 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:30:36 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c-3c90e255.56-4-64736c14.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has left #lisp 16:31:52 Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 16:32:08 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping 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has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:58:45 list* might come in handy. 16:58:59 HG` [~HG@p5DC051A6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:59:04 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:59:37 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 17:03:01 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.185] has joined #lisp 17:03:12 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-74-75.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:04:46 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-111-74-75.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:05:15 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@72.sub-75-225-155.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:05:39 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:30 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 17:08:39 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:09:49 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:10:03 jewel 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has joined #lisp 19:29:41 djinni` [~djinni`@li125-242.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 19:29:43 Does CL-FTP do SFTP? If not, is there a library to do such? 19:29:51 I don't think so to both. 19:30:00 Definitely not to the first. 19:30:51 Guess it's time to write one! 19:31:33 fmu___ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ardolkzgixrbejkn] has joined #lisp 19:31:33 Share and enjoy 19:31:39 -!- fmu___ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ardolkzgixrbejkn] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:10 Yep :) 19:34:07 -!- zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has quit [Quit: Changing server] 19:34:33 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:34:33 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:34:33 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-qsnrmdmluiozexnu] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:34:33 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-hoihesdifsvpjnqx] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:34:33 -!- newcup [newcup@peruna.fi] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:34:34 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:34:34 -!- xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has quit [*.net *.split] 19:34:34 -!- esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:34:35 marsell [~marsell@120.18.172.39] has joined #lisp 19:34:38 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:34:38 Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has joined #lisp 19:34:40 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 19:34:44 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:34:47 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-peulfnleagvopcew] has joined #lisp 19:34:48 zbigniew [~zb@3e8.org] has joined #lisp 19:35:06 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Excess Flood] 19:35:27 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-olepzgphpayjedjf] has joined #lisp 19:36:07 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #lisp 19:36:57 esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:02 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 19:37:41 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-021.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 19:38:48 Natch [~natch@178.73.216.99] has joined #lisp 19:38:58 -!- Natch| [~natch@178.73.218.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:40:56 fmu___ [u89@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-tojgupibowhysbrr] has joined #lisp 19:41:37 tsousa [~tsousa@bl18-47-133.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 19:41:56 who is using lisp to opensource? 19:42:25 Meaningless. 19:42:38 tsousa: I am using lisp to opensource. 19:43:16 I use lisp pretty for everything, these days. 19:43:23 hum. 19:43:25 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 19:43:40 clearly my natural language generator is written in java, though. 19:43:42 :P 19:44:04 :) 19:44:13 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-peulfnleagvopcew] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:44:15 could as well have asked "how do i opensource?" :P 19:44:33 Xach, in which opensource projects use lisp? 19:44:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:44:37 Yep "opensource" as a verb doesn't make sense to me. 19:45:12 tsousa: all 19:45:27 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:45:30 tsousa: Which *mainstream* projects? 19:45:35 yes 19:45:49 paste.lisp.org is written in lisp and opensource 19:45:50 tsousa: well, google can answer questions like that, but here's an active project delivering a non-trivial open source project in lisp: http://www.nongnu.org/stumpwm/ 19:46:16 ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-nfraehwaomwqreza] has joined #lisp 19:46:19 but other than that I admit I don't know any noteworthy opensource project written in lisp 19:46:21 tsousa: http://common-lisp.net/projects.shtml 19:46:26 all of those are open source and use lisp 19:46:32 tsousa: We're not mainstream :F 19:47:20 the presence of 'lisp' and 'mainstream' in the same sentence caused me to assume a 'lost in translation' scenario. 19:48:29 why lisp is not very used in opensource? 19:49:00 tsousa: preconceptions. 19:49:47 it's fast and easy to write a medium/large project in lisp as it is in python or perl? 19:49:56 faster I'd say. 19:50:01 Haha, much easier. 19:50:02 http://cliki.net/Performance 19:50:28 tsousa: And it out-performs it 100x. 19:51:05 (if you don't use something like CLISP) 19:51:09 tsousa: maxima is mainstream, too 19:51:19 and it's very easy to code? i never did any functional programming 19:51:26 -!- yan is now known as yan_ 19:51:29 jtza8: last time I benchmarked, clisp loaded faster than perl. 19:52:11 Yep, just meant SBCL and CCL, for example compile to native code. 19:52:51 Is there a way to make sbcl store functions' lambda forms without switching it to interpreter mode? 19:52:55 tsousa: CL doesn't force functional programming 19:53:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.38.236.239] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:53:29 naryl: use a wrapper macro for definition which would save the structure? 19:53:40 no? one of my main reason to lean lisp is to learn some functional programming 19:54:11 tsousa: not a great reason 19:54:13 tsousa: Have a look at scheme, if it's for functional programming. 19:54:23 tsousa: it makes it easier than most "mainstream" languages 19:54:38 jtza8: does lisp out-perform python also when you don't compile the code, but just interpret it? 19:54:53 -!- anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:55:02 tsousa: scheme is much more fixated on FP. But for really FP-oriented stuff, I'd go for Haskell, OCaml, etc. 19:55:04 let's say with sbcl 19:55:13 naeg: most implementations don't even have an interpreter! 19:55:18 or don't use it by default! 19:55:31 naryl: sbcl's interpreter might be bug ridden... I don't think many people dust it off :) 19:55:37 tsousa: or use Qi, a CL "library" for functional programming. 19:55:54 Intensity [XHwCtvVA9c@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 19:56:00 pjb: not? i'm new to lisp too, but those few implementation i know all have interpreters 19:56:10 naeg: which one? 19:56:28 p_l|backup: There is a standard function FUNCTION-LAMBDA-FORM but SBCL doesn't save functions sources in compiler mode. 19:56:41 So it returns nil which is allowed. 19:56:42 pjb: sbcl :P 19:56:47 and the gnu clisp 19:56:51 naeg: Do you mean the REPL or what? 19:56:53 sbcl doesn't use the interpreter by default. 19:57:15 naeg: you have to read the user manual to know how to activate the interpreter in SBCL, It's not easy, and not automatic! 19:57:18 naeg: sbcl has an evaluator that for a long time only gathered bitrot 19:57:40 clisp afaik doesn't have interpreter, it compiles to bytecode :) 19:57:42 p_l|backup: I don't think you know what you're talking about. 19:57:53 p_l|backup: clisp has an interpreter, which is used "by default". 19:57:58 but I only have my textfile containing my source and i start it with sbcl - is it compiled everytime? 19:58:05 p_l|backup: SBCL did not have an evaluator, and then it got one, and it's used all the time. 19:58:09 pjb: ? 19:58:25 but since you load most libraries with asdf or quicklisp anyways, they are always compiled and the fas file is loaded, so even with clisp, you rarely run the interpreter, but rather compiled code. 19:58:34 naeg: Yep, unless it's compiled to a fasl, and then loaded... or if you dump the SBCL image. 19:58:50 -!- user17 [~user@unaffiliated/user17] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:59:03 i always thought it's interpreted...how does this come to my mind o.O 19:59:07 naeg: Every piece ofcode you enter in sbcl's REPL is compiled to native code by default. 19:59:10 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-63-133.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 6.0.2/20110905174115]] 19:59:12 naryl: preconceptions. 19:59:24 Xach: Maybe. I meant the difference between interpreting the source directly and doing implicit COMPILE on it 19:59:24 s/naryl/naeg/ 19:59:44 ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-63-133.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 19:59:55 -!- ahinki [~chatzilla@AAmiens-551-1-63-133.w86-208.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 20:00:03 pjb: hmm... I think my perception of this in CLISP is related to Genera, which couldn't call DISASSEMBLE on interpreted function 20:00:04 -!- tsousa [~tsousa@bl18-47-133.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 20:00:13 tsuru``: argh - I was meaning to fix the git issue. 20:00:17 (setq sb-ext:*evaluator-mode* :interpret) 20:00:21 tsuru``: not mothballed, but a bit neglected 20:00:25 ah,right 20:00:59 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.183.185] has joined #lisp 20:01:23 fmeyer [~fmeyer@c951885b.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:01:51 BTW, I'm looking for a reader-macro that checks if a package exists. Is there a default one? 20:02:14 jtza8: reader macros must read something. What do you want to read? 20:02:21 jtza8: #.(find-package :foo) ? 20:02:33 noname [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:46 Thanks bobbysmith007. 20:02:59 -!- noname is now known as Guest15634 20:03:27 jtza8: #. will evaluate a form at readtime... This has some interesting consequences 20:03:46 like the interesting times of Chineses... 20:03:59 elfrosch [~Brnt@p5485744E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:04:15 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:04:31 Spring-heeled [~Spring-he@161.sub-75-204-243.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:04:56 Yes, interesting... 20:05:51 insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-72-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has joined #lisp 20:05:51 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@port-92-204-72-182.dynamic.qsc.de] has quit [Changing host] 20:05:51 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 20:06:01 I need #. so I don't reference a package which doesn't exist such as foo:bar where foo doesn't exist. 20:06:30 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-021.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:06:44 jtza8: why would you not know at read/compile time whether or not a package is defined? 20:06:47 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-021.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 20:06:55 -!- buguldey1 [~buguldey@client-76-9.sibtele.com] has left #lisp 20:07:10 #+#.(cl:if (cl:find-package :foo) '(:and) '(:or)) foo:bar 20:07:12 ecraven [~nex@www.nexoid.at] has joined #lisp 20:07:14 jtza8: just asking because generally these problems are solved in the asd file based on the dependencies of the project 20:07:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:08:17 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@GMKCLVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:08:31 vert2 [~vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-tyvwkqlwtaocubdn] has joined #lisp 20:09:56 Well, here's some code bobbysmith007: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124625 20:10:33 Sysop_fb [~bleh@108-66-160-34.lightspeed.spfdmo.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:24 I'm looking to automate the process of determaining whether or not to automatically set the cl-opengl-bindings:*get-proc-address* variable. 20:11:40 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:11:50 Unless I know that the cl-opengl-bindings package DOES exist, I'll cause a reader error. 20:12:05 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:07 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:12:50 bobbysmith007: Of-course, I'd preffer not to have to do this kind of thing this way. 20:13:03 jtza8: you can use find-symbol and setf symbol-value... 20:13:13 -!- elfrosch [~Brnt@p5485744E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:13:19 jtza8: I just annotated, using intern it another way to do this: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124625, also Xach's suggestion 20:13:39 peterhil [~peterhil@GGYYMKDCCCLXXXI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 20:13:42 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-172-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:46 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:13:50 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-172-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:07 Much appreciated, thanks bobbysmith007, Xach. 20:14:50 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:15:19 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ei1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:16:20 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:16:21 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-172-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:41 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.231] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:16:45 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-172-124.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:17:35 Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has joined #lisp 20:17:41 deke [~deke@fl-71-54-189-181.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:21:23 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:21:30 -!- deke [~deke@fl-71-54-189-181.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:21:46 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 20:22:53 -!- Spring-heeled is now known as SpringheeledJake 20:23:25 jcazevedo 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seconds] 22:40:17 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:41:23 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.169.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:43:18 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:43:52 anvandare [~anvandare@dD5770E0E.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 22:46:36 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@adsl-074-239-175-125.sip.rmo.bellsouth.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 22:46:53 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:47:07 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-255-183.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:48:40 -!- CrEddy [~velleity@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:49:30 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:50:13 -!- Joreji [~thomas@vpn-ho1.unidsl.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:51:45 Unarmed Bear Common Lisp? 22:52:14 A CL running on a Python VM? 22:52:26 ZabaQ: stub code? 22:52:55 http://code.google.com/p/uabcl/ 22:53:52 Aha. Runs on top of a JVM on top of .NET 22:54:26 *squint* 22:54:28 clever. 22:54:40 okay, why does ABCL have a symbol named "ITEM" in common-lisp-user? 22:56:39 Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.169.142] has joined #lisp 22:56:59 actually, why are there *any* internal symbols in CL-USER? 22:59:32 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-255-183.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:01:49 though this apparently doesn't violate the spec "The COMMON-LISP-USER package can have additional symbols interned within it" 23:02:42 jasom: that's the point, implementation are allowed to put whatever they want in the CL-USER package. 23:02:56 jasom: it's up to you to either clean it up, or use your own package. 23:03:36 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:04:10 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 23:06:58 pjb: fair enough 23:17:25 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:18:09 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:20:56 Is there any standard way to limit the size of an array that will be printed at the repl? 23:21:28 CCL is currently trying to print a few meg of uncompressed data.. 23:23:11 ZabaQ: *print-length* 23:23:22 ah! 23:23:29 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:23:55 *print-length* is better way to do it, but if it didn't exist would it be conforming to override print-object method for cons? It seems to work 23:25:34 kennyd: no 23:26:03 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDED53.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 23:26:06 kennyd: that is forbidden by 11.1.2.1.2 clause 19, by my reading 23:27:14 -!- Guest15634 [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:28:58 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDED53.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:32:22 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 23:40:35 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:40:58 Xach thanks 23:42:38 -!- dwim [~dwim@156.Red-83-61-35.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:43:14 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:37 -!- tsuru`` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:47:18 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.114.169.142] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:48:34 jpop [~jpop@31.216.200.69] has joined #lisp 23:53:38 Happy Programmers' Day! 23:54:40 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 23:58:34 Huh. It's the 256th day of the year. 23:59:06 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483DF5D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:59:31 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:59:44 "...the color white was chosen because it represents a hex number with the largest value in a 24-bit red green blue (RGB) color space..."