00:00:11 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.155.108] has joined #lisp 00:00:23 I think it was something else. 00:00:27 scrimohsin [~cms@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:00:27 -!- scrimohsin [~cms@c-98-246-47-184.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Changing host] 00:00:28 scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 00:02:21 -!- sellout [~Adium@71.33.237.102] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:02:39 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: good night] 00:03:36 burton [~burton@S0106002401f331bd.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:38 -!- burton is now known as kruhft 00:04:24 does anybody know of a reason why a call to macroexpand inside of a macro character handler function would be performing macroepxansion? 00:04:30 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:05:14 i mean, would not be performing the macroexpansion 00:05:36 that's a relief, I wondering if I'd lost it 00:06:01 maybe the macro isn't defined in that environment; something to do with the package of the symbol maybe? 00:06:10 i don't think so 00:06:30 everything is just in the cl-user package 00:07:53 unless the context of a macro character handler isn't in the same environment as my other code 00:08:44 looks like macroexpand takes an env parameter, maybe setting that will help 00:09:27 kruhft: or thinking more. 00:09:44 env values are obtained only as parameters to macros... 00:09:59 if you're loading it all from the same file, there's some trickiness there I can never keep in my head 00:10:04 kruhft: read again clhs defmacro 00:10:43 are macro character handlers in a different environment than top level code? 00:12:03 Perhaps it would be more efficient if you paste.lisp.org -ed your code... 00:13:00 psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has joined #lisp 00:13:38 Calling macroexpand explicitely is strange in any case. 00:13:51 i'm doing a strange project... 00:14:13 rme_ [~rme@50.43.157.57] has joined #lisp 00:14:33 -!- rme [rme@8A625363.BE4DF583.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 00:14:34 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 00:14:41 reader macros are a bit odd themselves 00:14:50 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124594 00:15:42 Again, why are you calling macroexpand? 00:15:42 i've got a bunch of them and they seem to be working ok but for this one, but i am going off into new territory with my project so i'm expecting difficulty, just not something as basic as this 00:15:58 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.187.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:15:58 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 00:16:19 because i just want the results of the expansion and not have the results passed to the compiler 00:16:34 And it would be safer to test for #\( instead of space. What about $hello ? 00:16:52 i'm not worried about that right now 00:17:13 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@24-246-26-34.cable.teksavvy.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:17:39 In anycase, why are you calling macroexpand? 00:18:00 Once you have a macro, why do you need a reader macro? 00:18:00 how do you even know it's not being macroexpanded 00:18:32 because i'm writing a compiler that i want to use CL as the macro lanaguage for, so i want to be able to define macros but insert the results into the code that is being processed rather than have their output passed to the compiler 00:18:50 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 00:18:53 if CL had fexprs i would use those, but it doesn't so i have to use macros as they don't evaluate their arguments 00:18:59 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:19:06 kruhft: writing a macro system is trivial. 00:19:26 kruhft: on the other hand, ensuring that all the preexisting CL macros work with your new compiler is not. 00:19:26 StrmSrfr: i know it's not being macroexpanded because i put in an (error (macroexpand form)) in the macro character handler 00:19:55 kruhft: in particular, macros in the CL package can expand to implementation specificc special operators that you cannot know how to compile. 00:20:24 Therefore my advice is to implement your own macro system, and to define your own macros (which you can still do in Common Lisp). 00:20:30 i'm not compiling CL it's a different langauge 00:20:47 I had understood. Hence my advice. 00:21:38 thank you for the advice, but i still have the problem that macroexpand isn't expanding 00:21:48 -!- scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:22:17 Well, your paste is lacking a closing parenthesis. 00:22:54 But with this parenthesis added, it works perfectly. 00:23:51 but it's doesn't work in my actual code even though its exactly the same... 00:23:53 scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 00:23:56 typical programming problem 00:24:25 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.155.108] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:27:41 -!- spazzd [~spazzd@76.73.121.203] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:28:35 and you get the unexpanded form? 00:29:46 because it works for me too 00:30:02 what happens if you try it with a different macro 00:30:03 yes, when called from my program contex 00:30:11 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.120.157.143] has joined #lisp 00:30:13 haven't tried that yet, just a sec 00:30:59 i just tried with a simple setf (that's a macro right?) and still the same thing...doesn't expand 00:31:42 i also try with sb-cltl2:macroexpand-all and get the same resuls 00:32:05 And notice how it expands to something that's implementation dependant: You won't be able to compile that! 00:32:16 -!- Spring-heeled is now known as SpringheeledJake 00:32:43 true 00:32:49 if it expanded 00:33:15 i'm basically writing this so i can escape to CL from my program text 00:33:30 and then have the macros return forms that are then processed by my compiler 00:33:48 Again, why do you want to expand macros? 00:33:52 $(sin 42) ? 00:34:02 sometimes 00:34:09 but mostly to generate forms to be passed to my compiler 00:34:14 There's no point. Just do not call macroexpand. 00:34:17 You don't need it. 00:34:33 but if i don't then the results of the macroexpansion get passed to the CL compiler which is not what i want 00:35:11 i'm trying to avoid having to write a completely new language on top of my language just for macro capabilities 00:35:16 *|3b|* thinks it is easier to just use your own macros than deal with all the random junk in implementations' macroexpansions 00:35:36 kruhft: it's trivial to write a macro system. You don't need to rewrite a whole CL for that. 00:36:24 i'm still in the design phase of this portion of the project so i'll look into it 00:36:37 any good examples or pointers to how one would go about writing a macro system? 00:37:10 i'd personally prefer to not have the $(...) syntax anyways and have the macros expanded inline in my code 00:37:22 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.120.157.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:38:03 <|3b|> macro is just a normal function that happens to be called during compilation (or direct evaluation) 00:38:27 but it doesn't evaluate it's arguments either so i have to deal with that 00:38:42 <|3b|> functions don't evaluate their arguments either 00:38:53 yes they do 00:38:54 <|3b|> the caller evaluates things or not 00:39:02 x14oy1n [~x14oy1n@120.42.244.151] has joined #lisp 00:39:12 <|3b|> the arguments to a macro are source code 00:39:28 cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has joined #lisp 00:39:28 -!- cfy [~cfy@218.75.27.172] has quit [Changing host] 00:39:28 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 00:39:30 the arguments are evaluated in order left to right prior to function application 00:39:35 in a macro they are not 00:39:38 <|3b|> right /prior to/ 00:40:01 by the evaluator 00:40:07 yes 00:40:19 rme_ [~rme@50.43.142.106] has joined #lisp 00:40:33 -!- rme [rme@89E9CE39.E6A1271C.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Ping timeout] 00:40:34 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 00:40:55 whereas the arguments to macros are passed to the macro expansion function 00:42:01 i think i'm going to go off and write my own 'define' function for defining macros in my language and handle that in my compiler/evaluator 00:42:30 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.157.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:42:30 -!- rme_ is now known as rme 00:43:18 <|3b|> (funcall (macro-function 'setf) '(setf (car a) 1) nil) ... exactly the same as FUNCALLing any other function 00:45:37 <|3b|> (defun foo (a b) (print a) (print b)) (setf (macro-function 'bar) #'foo) (bar baz) 00:45:45 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.175] has joined #lisp 00:46:30 <|3b|> ^ normal function, just happens to be passed a chunk of the code being evaluated rather than whatever that chunk of code might otherwise evaluate to 00:46:34 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:47:45 oh bother, that test that failed before isn't now 00:51:54 Salamander_ [~Salamande@ppp118-210-106-119.lns20.adl2.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 00:52:26 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:53:09 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.175] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:54:44 -!- Salamander [~Salamande@ppp121-45-119-23.lns20.adl6.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:55:23 ugh 00:56:21 this branch two years old, that's a lot of merge conflicts 00:58:16 -!- psilord [~psilord@76.201.144.59] has left #lisp 01:00:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:02:46 -!- GrayMagiker [~steve@c-174-56-88-247.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 01:04:15 -!- topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:05:22 -!- Simul` [~user@97-93-224-156.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:07:57 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@160.sub-75-204-120.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:11:43 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:13:11 -!- Yuuhi`` [benni@p5483B4CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:16:49 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:17:13 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 01:18:49 -!- rme [rme@CD5C6EB7.F74FD1E8.699BA7A6.IP] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:18:49 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.142.106] has quit [Quit: rme] 01:23:20 topeak [~topeak@123.114.132.184] has joined #lisp 01:25:09 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 01:30:13 guther [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-axtiemfkqwzqcbyo] has joined #lisp 01:35:56 HG` [~HG@p5DC05127.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:27 H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC8956.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:30 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 01:37:38 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.160.121] has joined #lisp 01:39:09 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 01:39:13 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2EA0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:58 -!- H4ns` [~user@p4FFC9028.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:45:04 -!- Mohikaner [~moe@stgt-5d842529.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 01:50:52 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:53:00 What units are used for each graph at http://sbcl.boinkor.net/boinkmarks/index ? 01:53:11 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:54:21 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:56:28 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-95-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:57:33 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.160.121] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:59:56 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:00:59 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:01:37 years 02:01:53 and something else for the other axis 02:03:43 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has joined #lisp 02:04:17 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.93.64] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:06:19 is cliki available for offline download? 02:06:57 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:07:20 cryptopsy: wget -r 02:07:46 wiki by default blocks those attempts 02:08:14 try another user agent 02:09:39 i hope your precious wiki burns to the ground as i'm wget'ing it 02:10:26 how unkind of you 02:10:31 fuck you twice 02:11:09 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.153.78] has joined #lisp 02:11:34 -!- ChanServ has set mode +o fe[nl]ix 02:11:42 -!- fe[nl]ix has set mode +b *!~cryptopsy@unaffiliated/aborticide 02:11:42 -!- cryptopsy [~quassel@pdpc/supporter/professional/fenlix] has been kicked from #lisp by fe[nl]ix (cryptopsy) 02:11:45 wget worked for me 02:15:03 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 02:15:40 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 02:17:11 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:19:09 wolfpython [~wolf@180.110.177.138] has joined #lisp 02:25:50 rme [~rme@50.43.142.106] has joined #lisp 02:29:25 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:29:57 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05127.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 02:32:53 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:43:57 I am having an issue with usocket and the 'state' slot. Anyone familiar with usocket? 02:45:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:50:33 -!- upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:53:15 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:00:29 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.110.177.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:02:48 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:13:06 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-66.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-66.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:31 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:59 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.134] has joined #lisp 03:16:35 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:16:52 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@132.sub-75-203-162.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:33 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:18:28 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:18:44 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has joined #lisp 03:26:51 daniel__1 [~daniel@p5082BE9A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:28:06 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 03:30:27 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5082B478.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:30:35 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:30:58 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.70] has joined #lisp 03:32:00 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:33:43 -!- x14oy1n [~x14oy1n@120.42.244.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:34 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.247.139.111] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:38:38 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:39:47 Quadrescence [~quadbook@71-212-165-176.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:39:55 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@71-212-165-176.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:39:55 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:40:50 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.134] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:41:00 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.134] has joined #lisp 03:42:09 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.132.184] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:47:41 topeak [~topeak@123.114.132.184] has joined #lisp 03:47:59 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:48:02 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:48:47 Ah, figured it out. But it is slightly odd. 03:49:28 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.132.184] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 03:50:06 topeak [~topeak@123.114.132.184] has joined #lisp 04:03:50 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.134] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:04:52 Good morning everyone! 04:05:44 Quadrescence: It depends on your definition of what SICL is. If it is the collection of "modules", then yes. If it is a complete system, I am sure there must be some assembler in there. 04:13:10 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:15:13 pnq [~nick@AC83B756.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 04:15:53 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.132.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:16:15 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 04:18:17 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@GGKMDLXV.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:19:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:25:39 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:29:22 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1879] 04:36:06 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:46:03 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-109-66.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:46:57 -!- pnq [~nick@AC83B756.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:48:27 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.70] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:49:44 enupten [~neptune@117.192.81.7] has joined #lisp 04:50:25 Hello, 04:51:15 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.25] has joined #lisp 04:52:30 I have a recursive macro, http://paste.lisp.org/display/124595 04:53:00 (macroexpand '(chebyshev 10 x)) works like macroexpand-1; am I doing something wrong ? 04:53:34 Macroexpand only works on the form, not the subforms. That looks like it should maybe be a function, though. 04:56:13 enupten: How do you call it? 04:56:20 Hmm, Hyperspec says that macroexpand calls macroexpand-1 expands forms until the form is no longer a macro form. I hoped I could do (lazily) symbolic algebra with macros. 04:56:21 Oh, sorry, saw it now. 04:56:37 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@132.sub-75-203-162.myvzw.com] has quit [Quit: Konversation terminated!] 04:56:53 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.134.233] has joined #lisp 04:57:05 enupten: You would have to call the recursive version with a numeric value as well. 04:57:42 beach: not with macroexpand 04:57:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.205.25] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:57:43 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 04:57:46 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@31.sub-75-251-166.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:33 enupten: When you do (chebyshev (- ,n 2) ,var) you are calling your macro with a list as its first argument. 04:59:06 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:59:38 Bike: Looked at Hyperspec again; you are right. Thanks! 04:59:47 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:00:58 beach: You mean the (- ,n 2) ? 05:01:23 enupten: Yes. 05:01:33 And what purpose does the LET serve? 05:02:05 beach: Variable binding. 05:02:19 -!- rme [~rme@50.43.142.106] has left #lisp 05:04:05 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 05:05:09 hmm those are already bound in that environment 05:07:07 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:07:14 Yeah, there should be an eval in there somewhere. 05:08:30 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:08:43 newbie learning lisp you see. 05:11:01 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:13:35 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:16:42 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-30.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:17:15 -!- enupten 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SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@197.sub-75-251-173.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 07:07:19 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:07:51 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:07:59 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:12:54 -!- esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 07:15:21 esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:04 Is there a simple way to convert a list of symbols to a string? 07:16:42 <|3b|> (princ-to-string list) 07:16:56 <|3b|> if that isn't the string you wanted, you need to be more specific 07:17:07 Oh, great. Thanks. 07:17:25 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:19:13 Sorry if I was vague. That is almost what I want, but without the parens. But I can get rid of those easy enough. Unless there is a single function that does all this? 07:20:01 <|3b|> (format nil "~{~a~^ ~}" list) ? 07:21:10 Awesome. Thats it! Thanks. I'm new to lisp and trying to do some homework in it. 07:21:34 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 07:22:49 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:25:05 wolfpython [~wolf@49.74.26.44] has joined #lisp 07:25:37 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@49.74.26.44] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:27:31 wolfpython [~wolf@49.74.26.44] has joined #lisp 07:28:15 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@49.74.26.44] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 07:29:09 wolfpython [~wolf@49.74.26.44] has joined #lisp 07:30:41 tcr1 [~tcr@host252-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 07:30:41 -!- tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:36:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 07:36:48 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 07:36:48 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 07:40:26 x14oy1n [~x14oy1n@120.42.244.151] has joined #lisp 07:42:58 insomnia1alt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 07:46:09 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:46:50 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 07:46:50 -!- insomnia1alt is now known as insomniaSalt 07:55:58 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:56:58 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:58:12 peterhil [~peterhil@GGYZMMDXL.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 08:04:04 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:22:21 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 08:25:53 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host140-230-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:26:23 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 08:26:24 marsell [~marsell@120.20.170.59] has joined #lisp 08:32:05 Posterdati [~tapioca@host140-230-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 08:32:16 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has joined #lisp 08:37:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:43 -!- cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 08:37:51 cpt_nemo [cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de] has joined #lisp 08:40:25 -!- benny [~benny@87.122.56.0] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:44:31 nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has joined #lisp 08:46:03 Mohikaner [~moe@stgt-5d842798.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:23 HG` [~HG@p5DC05127.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 08:47:25 ~^ is new to me. Neat. 08:48:52 (format nil) returns a string ... is there some way to hint how much space should be initially allocated? 08:50:04 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:52:09 something like file-string-length? 08:53:16 (format nil) errors in both sbcl and ecl 08:56:38 flip214: What do you mean by initial allocation? 08:56:54 Haven't looked at the spec, but CCL's implementation maps (format nil c & rest args) to (without-output-to-string (s) (apply #'format s c args)), so unless it's non-conformant, the answer to your question is no. 08:57:22 billstclair: ok, thanks 08:57:58 antoszka: the string that (format nil ...) returns gets allocated with some initial size, and extended as necessary IIUC ... 08:58:02 Guess you have to wrap with-output-to-string yourself 08:58:14 Now I wanted to know whether there's a way to provide some size estimate 08:58:33 flip214: I see. 08:58:39 (with-output-to-string (s (make-string ...)) (format t c args...)) 08:58:52 er... (format s ...) 08:59:35 billstclair: yes, thanks. 09:02:02 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:02:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:15:41 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:16:15 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:17:37 benny [~benny@i577A2634.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:18:26 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:18:28 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-210-177.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:25:58 -!- x14oy1n [~x14oy1n@120.42.244.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:33:03 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@197.sub-75-251-173.myvzw.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:23 -!- Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:37:34 Natch [~natch@178.73.218.83] has joined #lisp 09:38:18 -!- Natch| [~natch@178.73.216.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:39:08 flip214: format also takes a string as first argument that's destructively modified 09:44:29 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:46:40 urandom__ [~user@p548A3070.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:49:23 -!- insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:50:47 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 09:54:05 -!- easyE [nVfj5lOdlw@panix2.panix.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:54:53 manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-78-34-191-158.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:02:24 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 10:16:21 -!- nha [~prefect@5-74.104-92.cust.bluewin.ch] has quit [Quit: Stay hungry, stay foolish!] 10:20:39 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 10:26:13 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:42 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:28:55 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:33:26 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:33:27 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-62.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:44:06 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 10:44:13 -!- lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7A6F9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:51:42 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 10:56:10 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:57:39 lanthan_ [~ze@p54B7D26C.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:58:38 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 11:08:41 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has joined #lisp 11:14:10 Yuuhi [benni@p5483BA22.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:16:26 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:18:47 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:22:29 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.84] has joined #lisp 11:22:33 HG`` [~HG@p5DC04DDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:25:41 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05127.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:33:58 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.170.59] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:35:43 -!- alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:38:10 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-78-34-191-158.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 11:43:43 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@49.74.26.44] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:45:15 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:56:11 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 11:59:29 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:00:08 -!- HG`` [~HG@p5DC04DDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:02:06 fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has joined #lisp 12:11:41 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:13:12 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 12:13:19 Hi! I'm trying to define a package with a nickname, but I'm having problems using the nickname for require or ql:quickload. What is required for it to work like arnesi for example? I mean with arnesi you can do (require :arnesi) instead of (require :it.bese.arnesi) 12:16:58 peterhil: don't use require 12:17:19 peterhil: use (asdf:oos 'asdf-load-op :arnesi) or so 12:18:03 Ok. Might the problem be that I had the defpackage in the same file as the code? 12:18:27 if it's a nickname collision or the nickname is not known to quicklisp, and the package itself does not provide that nickname .... i don't know then maybe you are out of luck other than editing the sources and putting a nickname there.... 12:18:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:18:28 I looked at ieee-float and flow, which has quite minimal packaging 12:19:01 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has joined #lisp 12:19:08 Nicknames are a property of packages. asdf loads systems. 12:19:30 And they only have ieee-float.asd and ieee-float.lisp files and the defpackage is in ieee-float.lisp 12:19:31 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:19:53 manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-87-78-60-198.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:19:58 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has joined #lisp 12:20:50 look at what pjb tells you 12:22:00 and also there's a minimal tutorial on packages and using them.... 12:22:12 and setting up one's own etc..... 12:24:42 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 12:25:05 d0tZ [~user@c-24-118-48-38.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:27:24 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:27:45 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:28:18 I guess the problem was using # in front of the (:nicknames #:package-nick) 12:29:03 Still asdf didn't find the Lift package: "The name "LIFT" does not designate any package." 12:29:09 pnq [~nick@AC83B70D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:30:00 peterhil: did you configure *asdf-central-registry* ? 12:30:14 peterhil: quicklisps package repo and asdf's are not the same 12:30:35 quicklisp puts it all in quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software or so... 12:30:35 I have a symlink to the asd file in a directory pushed to asdf:*central-registry* 12:31:50 there's two dirs normally: one source and one systems in /usr/share/common-lisp 12:31:51 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host140-230-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:32:08 and the systems is a symlinks to the asd files in the sources/package/*.asd files 12:32:18 is a symlink directory rather 12:32:24 that's asdfs layout 12:32:54 i mean it looks there, and to other dirs you specify in your *asdf-central-registry* 12:33:44 Ok, good to know. 12:33:48 and secondly, the asdf system of your os is not the same as the asdf system of quicklisp 12:33:57 it upgrades it on loading to the version itself has 12:34:05 HG` [~HG@p5DC04DDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:34:38 I have the following in my *central-registy*: (#P"/Users/peterhil/Ohjelmointi/Lisp/Common-Lisp/_Systems/" #P"/Users/peterhil/quicklisp/quicklisp/") 12:34:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:34:51 nope 12:34:54 Maybe my setup is a bit miscofigured? 12:34:59 the second one is misconfigured 12:35:11 the second path /quicklisp/quicklisp i mean 12:35:26 there's no packages it can find 12:35:27 So asdf shouldn't know about quicklisp installed packages? 12:35:30 Oh 12:35:37 fix your path there 12:35:40 I also wondered that... 12:35:49 look at where quicklisp puts it's packages 12:35:49 If it will find anything there. 12:36:10 i said something like /quickisp/dists/quicklisp/software or so 12:36:59 you could have made a symlink from /quicklisp/dists/quicklsp/software/yourpackage/*.asd directly to the /usr/share/common-lisp/systems/ dir i think... 12:37:19 <_3b> that sounds like a rather silly thing to do 12:37:24 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 12:37:32 if you configured *asdf-central-registry* to include the /quicklisp/dists/quicklsp/software dir i mean 12:37:46 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.29.229] has joined #lisp 12:38:12 That quicklisp path might be like that because the layout was different in an earlier beta. 12:38:38 he could have copied the /quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/software/packages dirs one by one to the /usr/share/common-lisp/source dir if he wanted to, but that makes quicklisp useless then..... 12:38:58 so yes it's rather silly approach.... 12:39:20 yep peterhil just fix your *asdf-central-registry* path 12:39:24 BTW, the first entry is for my own packages in development. 12:41:50 Dodek [dodek@nolajf.pl] has joined #lisp 12:44:10 asdf recurses into dirs only when the first package dir has been found 12:44:20 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:44:27 so you have to have the topdir correct 12:44:56 <_3b> asdf recurses into dirs exactly when you tell it to recurse into dirs (which *central-registry* does not) 12:45:05 ah 12:45:08 better info 12:45:11 ok 12:45:27 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has joined #lisp 12:45:29 <_3b> if you want a tree search, you need to use the new config stuff, not *central-registry* 12:45:42 hmm, what is the new config stuff ? 12:45:43 c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CB9EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:46:08 <_3b> (or maybe put something other than a path in *central-registry*) 12:46:11 maybe i didn't take notice of that 12:46:59 *_3b* uses files in ~/.config/source-registry.conf.d 12:47:22 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 12:47:23 I have ~/.config/common-lisp/source-registry.conf.d, but it's empty? 12:48:00 <_3b> that's fine, if you aren't using it 12:52:36 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:57:03 x14oy1n [~x14oy1n@120.42.244.151] has joined #lisp 12:57:27 I can't find what pushes that quicklisp path to *central-registry*. I have ql:add-to-init-file added config in my .sbclrc, which I guess does it. But can't test it without configuring loading of asdf otherwise than through quicklisp... 12:57:55 *_3b* wouldn't worry about quicklisp being in *central-registry* 12:57:59 I'm having a starting headache. Maybe I'll take a short walk to clea my head... 12:58:11 <_3b> looks like the worst it would do is let you load quicklisp through asdf 12:58:12 Posterdati [~tapioca@host140-230-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 12:58:14 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-205.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:58:14 ...clear, even 12:58:57 <_3b> you did see the bit about none of this having anything to do with your original question, right? 12:59:27 Ok. Then I won't worry it now and just start writing tests for the package I was making and push it to GitHub in the evening. Maybe somebody can check then that the asdf system and package configs are correct. 13:00:23 Weekends are always so short. I'm already stressed that tomorrow is Monday. :-( 13:00:37 I wanted to achieve moree this weekend. 13:01:26 Well, at least I splitted one Git repo into five parts according to languages used. No, it wasn't a wise choice to put different languages in the same repo. :-) 13:05:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-202-187.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:08:14 peterhil: I don't see why. 13:10:19 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-92-93.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 13:11:58 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 13:13:41 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-87-78-60-198.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:15:35 _3b: No, I didn't but I knew it's unrelated. 13:18:43 pjb: If I want to publish the repo, I don't want to publish the old, partly unfinished stuff in other languages, in which I'm not developing the software anymore. So it's a practical matter, more of a technical one. And there would be no problem of them being in the same repo, if I were to develop in different languages side by side. 13:19:22 But, maybe even then, probably the user would only want it in one language or the other. 13:20:17 -!- Natch [~natch@178.73.218.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 13:22:52 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 13:26:58 manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-87-78-60-198.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:36 -!- esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:29:21 esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 13:31:39 tortillous [~bavarious@pdpc/supporter/student/bavarious] has joined #lisp 13:34:25 -!- Posterdati [~tapioca@host140-230-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:37:28 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 13:39:31 -!- pnq [~nick@AC83B70D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:39:52 Natch| [~natch@178.73.218.100] has joined #lisp 13:40:26 pnq [~nick@AC83B70D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:41:23 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:42:06 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Client Quit] 13:42:29 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 13:42:41 peterhil: I would love to be able to git clone postgresql, and to switch to the (early) versions that were written in Lisp... 13:45:07 wolfpython [~wolf@117.89.240.40] has joined #lisp 13:46:04 plage [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-93-227.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:51:53 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@GGYZMMDXL.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Excess Flood] 13:52:59 peterhil [~peterhil@GGYZMMDXL.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 14:01:29 SpringheeledJake [41a8eb24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.168.235.36] has joined #lisp 14:05:27 -!- pnq [~nick@AC83B70D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:07:06 pnq [~nick@AC83B70D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:14 Posterdati [~tapioca@host140-230-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:07:29 urandom_ [~user@p548A2E4A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:09:11 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A3070.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:11:19 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 14:13:11 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:13:32 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has quit [Quit: Fear not, I will return] 14:15:12 oudeis [~oudeis@62.0.53.178] has joined #lisp 14:16:22 -!- tty234_ is now known as tty234 14:19:29 -!- bandu is now known as coyo 14:19:58 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 14:26:18 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62.0.53.178] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:28:54 fds [~frankie@ajax.webvictim.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:09 -!- x14oy1n [~x14oy1n@120.42.244.151] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:55 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 14:36:25 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:43 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has joined #lisp 14:43:53 -!- pnq [~nick@AC83B70D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:44:31 zmv [~zmv@c9533508.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:44:33 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-87-78-60-198.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 14:47:11 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:50:50 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-195.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:50:52 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:51:43 gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has joined #lisp 14:51:57 -!- zmv [~zmv@c9533508.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:03:17 there's no docs for babel, are there? :\ 15:06:09 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.61.214.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:07:01 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:12:11 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@117.89.240.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:12:30 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 15:13:08 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 15:21:54 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@p5B2CB9EB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:25:54 topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has joined #lisp 15:28:48 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-44c78c12.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:31:24 -!- coyo [~unf@unaffiliated/bandu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:31:33 -!- tcr1 [~tcr@host252-2.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:32:54 Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.110.191] has joined #lisp 15:33:52 manjappa [~manjappa@122.167.18.32] has joined #lisp 15:34:03 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:34:22 hello 15:35:18 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 15:35:51 hello manjappa 15:36:28 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-44c78c12.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:36:33 hi plage, I am new to irc, just testing out, thanks for response 15:36:48 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 15:36:58 manjappa: So what brings you here? 15:38:09 was learning lisp, read in cliki that lot os lispers hang out in irc, so was curious to see what goes on here 15:38:31 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:39:00 plage, are you experienced lisper? 15:39:24 I have been using Common Lisp for more than 10 years. 15:39:31 wow! 15:39:33 And Lisp for more than 30 years. 15:40:12 more than my age! 15:40:24 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:40:32 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-078-043-123-191.hsi4.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 15:41:09 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 15:41:09 That's OK. Don't worry about it :) 15:43:14 do you have a blog? public repositories? 15:43:23 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 15:43:50 me? 15:43:53 plage: you can follow planet.lisp.org for an aggregate of cl blogs 15:44:04 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:44:09 err, that was meant for manjappa 15:44:49 alanpearce [~alan@home.alanpearce.co.uk] has joined #lisp 15:45:06 manjappa: As attila_lendvai says, planet.lisp.org is good. Hanging out here also gives a pretty good idea of what is going on. 15:45:32 manjappa: common-lisp.net is a good site for code repositories. 15:45:40 thanks attila_lendvai, plage 15:46:42 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:47:03 manjappa: Anytime! 15:47:37 I have just read 11 chapters of ansi common lisp and read Global Problem Solver in Paradigms of AI programming. I have finished 1.5 chapters of SICP, done examples and exercies in CL, now I am planning to write a web app using hunchentoot 15:47:52 do you guys think its a good idea or should I read some more 15:48:09 my public repos are in github/manishym 15:49:01 manjappa: going all the way to a webapp *may* be full of integration headaches as opposed to lisp coding. but as I've heard quicklisp solved many of those problems by now... 15:50:07 manjappa: Sounds good to me. You will learn more Lisp as you work out the problems. 15:50:15 -!- d0tZ [~user@c-24-118-48-38.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:51:37 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:54:56 thanks to both of you, I will look forward to hanging out more on #lisp 15:56:10 but don't stop reading either 15:56:58 StrmSrfr: sure! 15:57:46 and yeah, I think quicklisp installed hunchentoot for me with minimal problems 15:57:50 if any? 15:58:26 Quicklisp is good, yes. 15:58:28 Yeah, quicklisp is magic, I installed all the libs mentioned in lisp for web blog without a single problem 15:58:36 well, debugging is an important skill for a programmer... and it's quite different in lisp than what most coders are used to... :) 15:58:49 And soon I will have the pleasure to meet the autor of Quicklisp for the first time in person. 16:00:28 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:02:31 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.199.248] has joined #lisp 16:03:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:04:23 plage: Are you going to ECLM? 16:06:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 16:07:08 Yes, that's where I will meet Xach. 16:07:46 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:49 manjappa: If you go, bring your copy of "Lisp in Small Pieces". 16:08:05 manjappa: My wife translated it into English and she will be there to sign it for you! :) 16:08:51 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 16:10:31 binarycodes [~user@59.93.245.69] has joined #lisp 16:10:33 plage: Wow, but no, I am in India, saw about ECLM in planet lisp 16:11:32 manjappa: Oh. Some other time then we hope! :) 16:12:17 definitely 16:15:07 Tell me, from where you are, which is closer: Amsterdam or Ho Chi Minh city? 16:18:36 dbushenko [~dim@93.125.25.90] has joined #lisp 16:19:47 Ho chi minh is closer. Amsterdam is about 11 hrs by air 16:20:48 manjappa: Hello! I'm from India too. 16:21:37 plage: Ho chi minh is about 7 hrs by air 16:21:53 samebchase: Hi! from Bangalore? 16:21:55 manjappa: And Amsterdam? 16:22:06 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 16:22:08 manjappa: About 6? 16:22:11 plage: 11 hrs 16:22:12 manjappa: Vizag. Vellore in the holidays 16:22:23 Hmm, that sounds strange. 16:22:32 Amsterdam to HCM is just 13 hours? 16:23:07 if you fly over India it should be 18 hrs... how did you calculate 13 hrs? 16:26:44 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:27:00 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 16:27:09 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:28:37 kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.25] has joined #lisp 16:28:37 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.164.25] has quit [Changing host] 16:28:37 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:28:44 jmbr [~jmbr@141.205.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 16:29:29 manjappa: Amsterdam -> Paris 1h. Paris -> HCM 12h. 16:32:02 francogrex [~user@109.130.140.155] has joined #lisp 16:34:09 pnq [~nick@ACA2FE60.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:36:40 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:36:53 -!- binarycodes [~user@59.93.245.69] has left #lisp 16:36:59 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 16:37:04 plage: ok, I had searched in flights ticket search site, it gave 7hrs because there are no direct flights, all flights go via thiland or malaysia or singapore 16:37:42 a straight flight may take about 3 hrs 16:38:32 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.84] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:38:49 manjappa: I thought so. 16:38:58 superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:42:56 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:43:29 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:04 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 16:46:29 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:15 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-049-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:20 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:48:51 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has joined #lisp 16:49:14 fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-44c78c12.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:26 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:54:38 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:55:14 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 16:56:22 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:56:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.80.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:56:42 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 16:56:58 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:57:32 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:57:42 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:00:45 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:00:57 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:01:08 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:02:15 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:06:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:11:28 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 17:13:10 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@213.129.230.10] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:13:12 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has joined #lisp 17:19:53 -!- manjappa [~manjappa@122.167.18.32] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:05 _a` [a@c-24-4-196-90.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:35 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@cpe-076-182-089-009.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:20:36 -!- abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:26:02 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2FE60.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:32:22 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:34:18 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:36:57 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:37:11 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 17:38:33 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.140.155] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:43:01 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:43:50 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:51:55 na-ii [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:01 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:58:12 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:58:40 Hi, guys. I'm learning list and have a question about return values. Here is a piece of lisp I wrote: http://pastebin.com/YAcUyFw7 . Why does it only return a boolean variable? I would like it to return the value of power-set. 18:00:26 SpringheeledJake: what resources are you using to learn CL? 18:02:44 Internet (when available) and a book. I'm learning slowly, as I have little extra time. I tried googling the problem but I must have been searching for the wrong thing or looking on the wrong pages. 18:03:02 what book? 18:03:17 I have the internet right now, but not the book. Because I am at work. The book is Land of Lisp. 18:03:25 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 18:04:23 Land of lisp is a nice introduction, but something like practical common lisp will probably help you write your own programs better. 18:04:34 -!- dbushenko [~dim@93.125.25.90] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:04:48 SpringheeledJake: I tried it, and it returns the value of the call to power-set. 18:05:39 that concatenate/read-from-string/eval bit is awful. That's why we have funcall and apply. 18:06:03 SpringheeledJake: When you say it returns "a boolean variable", what do you mean? 18:06:20 It actually returns t. 18:06:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:06:35 I meant a boolean value, sorry. 18:06:51 SpringheeledJake: then, that is what your powerset function returns. 18:06:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:06:54 If I trace power-set, it is fuctioning properly. 18:07:17 SpringheeledJake: Aside from that, pkhuong is right. That programming style is pretty bad. 18:07:50 Well, I know that eval is incorrect but it is the only method I currently know and I have to finish this relatively wuick. 18:07:53 quick. 18:08:13 Also trace says that power-set is returning the power set. 18:08:25 SpringheeledJake: I pasted your code to my listener, and it returns whatever power-set returns. 18:08:43 SpringheeledJake: it seems to me you're reading the trace output wrong. 18:09:40 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.80.217] has joined #lisp 18:10:41 luis: does it look good so far? 18:10:41 Hmm. Yeah. I made an incorrect assumption. Now I have to figue out why power-set is returning t after the last return of the power set. It wasn't doing that at first, so I must have changed something that I have forgotten about. 18:11:07 And thanks guys for the advice, I will certainly look into funcall and apply instead. 18:12:26 why are you reading from a concatenated string, anyway? 18:13:21 it just sounded like a fun thing with which to experiment? 18:14:16 na-ii: To evaluate user input. That's how I saw it done. The author says that it isn't a good method. He tells about the problems with using eval. I'm not sure why he started with that. 18:14:28 rosario [~rosario@p5796B23B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:14:28 -!- rosario [~rosario@p5796B23B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:14:28 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 18:14:45 fe 18:15:18 Maybe to go ahead and teach you the wrong way first? 18:16:34 Either way, I am just trying to do some cs homework and chose to do it in lisp so I could get some practice. Unfortunately, that the best I can currently do involving user input. 18:19:26 unless the assignment specifies how the arguments should be input, we usually just use functions interactively, at the REPL. 18:19:48 -!- fisxoj [~fisxoj@ool-44c78c12.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:19:52 call power-set directly, it's not really more work than using your function. 18:21:29 I don't know where the t comes from. Trace actually says "0: POWER-SET returned ((A B C) (A B) (A C) (A) (B C) (B) (C) NIL)", but then on a line by itself it says 'T'. If I call power-set from the repl, there is no T. And eveyone else is writing theirs in C++ or java. My professor wants to be able to enter the set with or without parens. 18:22:03 I will go ahead and look into funcall and apply. 18:24:26 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-195.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:24:40 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-195.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:22 oudeis [~oudeis@109-186-1-133.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 18:28:39 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-195.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:31:05 fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-237-125.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has joined #lisp 18:32:48 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-195.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 18:33:43 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@97.66.43.218] has joined #lisp 18:34:02 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-100-195.ptld.qwest.net] has left #lisp 18:37:32 Amyn1 [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:38:52 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 18:41:04 josemanuel [~josemanue@223.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has joined #lisp 18:43:18 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:43:29 rosario [~rosario@p5796B23B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:43:29 -!- rosario [~rosario@p5796B23B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 18:43:29 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 18:43:55 Natch [~natch@178.73.218.100] has joined #lisp 18:44:44 -!- Natch| [~natch@178.73.218.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:44:44 -!- Natch is now known as Natch| 18:46:01 sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-160-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:48:58 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-95-99.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:50:39 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 18:51:48 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 18:54:48 markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-65-228.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:50 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@host86-137-65-228.range86-137.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Changing host] 18:54:50 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 19:00:32 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:01:18 Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:06:39 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:07:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:08:24 -!- ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:13:04 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.54.0.227] has joined #lisp 19:17:47 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@GGYZMMDXL.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:20:48 -!- topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:21:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.54.0.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:21:37 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.54.0.227] has joined #lisp 19:21:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.54.0.227] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:03 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.54.0.227] has joined #lisp 19:22:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.54.0.227] has quit [Client Quit] 19:22:29 fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.54.0.227] has joined #lisp 19:23:46 -!- na-ii [~textual@c-67-171-131-23.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:24:51 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:25:03 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:27:37 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-049-023.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:28:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:30:08 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 19:32:37 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 19:32:43 peterhil [~peterhil@GMKCLVI.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 19:37:09 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:40:59 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 19:43:10 ramus [~ramus@c-50-132-91-53.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:47:23 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@201.54.0.227] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:49:38 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:51:15 -!- SpringheeledJake [41a8eb24@gateway/web/freenode/ip.65.168.235.36] has left #lisp 19:51:54 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:51:58 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 19:53:39 Hmm, no wonder I got the error "The name "LIFT" does not designate any package.". It was not listed as a requirement in either asd nor packages.lisp... 19:54:02 Maybe I should have gone eating earlier? :-) 19:56:15 I wrote (/ 2100.0 800.0), yet I still get a rational result 19:56:19 how to I force it to float? 19:56:31 ok, (float ..) :) 19:57:22 -!- tortillous [~bavarious@pdpc/supporter/student/bavarious] has left #lisp 19:58:19 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:22 zvrba: (/ 2100.0 800.0) should return a float. 19:59:58 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:04:44 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 20:05:09 -!- josemanuel [~josemanue@223.0.222.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Quit: Saliendo] 20:06:24 -!- scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:06:49 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:06:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.199.248] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:07:08 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:07:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:07:11 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.236.108] has joined #lisp 20:07:21 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:07:53 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:08:17 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has left #lisp 20:09:41 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:10:13 -!- mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@97.66.43.218] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:11:38 -!- superjudge [~superjudg@c83-250-198-227.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: superjudge] 20:16:34 -!- Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:16:51 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-2-41.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 20:17:32 what is progn? Cannot FUNCALL the SYMBOL-FUNCTION of special operator PROGN. 20:18:02 http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/s_progn.htm 20:18:11 mcstar: progn is a special operator. 20:18:34 mcstar: it's not a function; calling #'progn will not work. 20:19:28 i argued with myself that technically it could be a funtion, guess i was wrong, ill read the clhs 20:20:18 mcstar: multiple values mean that progn can't be a function. 20:20:28 o_O howso? 20:20:48 mcstar: it cannot be a function: (block nil (progn (print 'hi) (return 42) (print 'lo))) 20:21:36 mcstar: or: (progn (print 'hi) (values 1 2 3)) 20:21:58 pjb: I don't see the first counter example. 20:22:05 _0bitcount [~0bitcount@82.159.57.44.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 20:22:25 yes, the first is broken. 20:22:32 pjb: nice! 20:23:04 also, a function has a call-arguments-limit, while progn has no limit on the number of forms. 20:24:00 the first example actually made sense to me 20:24:08 why are you saying its broken? 20:24:48 it cant be a var-arg function, the last expression doesnt get evaluated, cause the return stops it 20:25:03 if it were a function, that would be an argument too 20:25:41 the first example is broken, because both a function and a special operator PROGN would behave the same. 20:25:51 -!- esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:26:15 Try and replace PROGN with LIST. 20:26:42 that wont work 20:26:48 you cant return from there 20:27:03 ah sry 20:28:14 pkhuong: hrmf. why is the 0 after the dot necessary? 20:28:22 esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:25 xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has joined #lisp 20:28:39 zvrba: 1234. means that the number is in base 10 20:28:48 (but it's still an integer) 20:29:19 oh 20:30:05 *zvrba* wants to see a rational in base 8 :p 20:30:34 zvrba: some previous dialects defaulted to base 8 and the . suffix was an easy syntax for base 10. 20:30:36 -!- esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 20:30:56 Xach: wtf? who in their right mind would default to 8?! 20:31:14 zvrba: people who understand the machine they work on. 20:31:22 esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:29 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:35 pkhuong: ya, but base 8 is not very useful for everyday arithmetic 20:32:01 i guess your preferred default depends on whether you want to hack the machine or do something useful in the real world 20:32:03 zvrba: I don't think anything done on a computer in 1960 was "every day". 20:32:10 i guess i will splice in the code-list into a progn in the body of a macro then 20:32:18 pkhuong: :) 20:32:46 plage: do you know where I can find a proof of the asymptotic performance of tomita parsers? 20:33:35 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:34:21 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:34:39 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-211-205.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:35:11 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:35:30 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:35:40 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.80.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:38:48 how come youre the ones who always answer my questions from a couple hundred people?(pkh. Xa. pj.b), not that im unthankful :) 20:39:08 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:39:19 which GTK library should I use for lisp? cl-gtk2? 20:40:34 mcstar: you could try to apply http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/borgs/Papers/cluster.pdf to irc. 20:40:59 mcstar: most people here are idling and not paying any attention 20:41:11 mcstar: and they tend to give more info than you've asked for. 20:41:20 For example, I was asleep before, so I didn't answer any question before. 20:41:58 hey all. 20:42:08 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109-186-1-133.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:42:36 Xach: I'm working a new game this week. started last night with an existing design doc, but have been making changes. 20:43:23 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:45:20 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:46:45 antifuchs: herep 20:48:42 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has joined #lisp 20:51:24 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3b7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:52:32 hi 20:55:37 optikalmouse: I'm interested in the same question. I'd like to try Cells-GTK or Cello, but I'm not sure if anyone uses them... So, if they prove unsupported, broken and/or unfinished, maybe I'll end up with using cl-gtk2 which may have more users. :-P Please tell your experiences, if you try some library. 20:57:36 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.232.191] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:02:36 hello prxq 21:02:58 hi fe[nl]ix 21:04:52 -!- fantazo [~fantazo@178-190-237-125.adsl.highway.telekom.at] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:05:33 Kryztof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 21:06:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:06:59 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:07:27 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:08:25 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.236.108] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:10:14 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c3b7c.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:15:39 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:19:12 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:19:21 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-247.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:21:45 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:21:47 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-62.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:22:05 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:23:08 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:25:34 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: zz] 21:27:00 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 21:27:35 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 21:28:11 -!- yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:30:05 yahooooo [~yahooooo@ec2-184-72-7-126.us-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:05 seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:38 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:41:42 BrokenCog [~daniel@ip98-162-173-207.pn.at.cox.net] has joined #lisp 21:48:45 Xach: on the comment of mcstar: you're the fastest, and you know most answers. i don't quite understand how you can get any work done 21:48:49 pnq [~nick@AC810191.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 21:58:12 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:15 madnificent: it's easy, he simply uploaded his mind to an Asgard computer 22:10:40 steevy [~steevy@91-67-216-153-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:10:42 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:10:53 -!- steevy [~steevy@91-67-216-153-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Client Quit] 22:11:10 -!- _0bitcount [~0bitcount@82.159.57.44.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:13:57 rosario [~rosario@2002:5796:b23b:0:22cf:30ff:fe67:e789] has joined #lisp 22:13:57 -!- rosario [~rosario@2002:5796:b23b:0:22cf:30ff:fe67:e789] has quit [Changing host] 22:13:57 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 22:15:45 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:17:33 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f2db.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 22:18:55 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:19:02 -!- esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 22:21:52 esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:11 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:22:25 -!- drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:22:39 scrimohsin [~cms@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:40 -!- scrimohsin [~cms@static-50-43-53-7.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:22:40 scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 22:22:44 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:27:41 marsell [~marsell@120.20.74.19] has joined #lisp 22:28:06 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:17 dans [~daniel@92.80.83.216] has joined #lisp 22:38:48 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:39:10 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:39:14 mcstar: i'll do that as well when i have the time for it :) 22:42:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@129.131.117.91.dynamic.mundo-r.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:09 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:45:26 is there a save-lisp-but-dont-die function? 22:46:20 if you didn't use theads, you can make one with save-lisp-and-die and fork. 22:46:36 -!- Soulman [~knute@175.80-202-238.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 22:47:29 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 22:49:11 -!- Vicfred [~Vicfred@201.102.110.191] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:51:56 -!- dans [~daniel@92.80.83.216] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:53:23 -!- CrEddy [~slaveling@wrongplanet/CrazyEddy] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:55:51 ive found the prompt in slime-repl.el, id like to customize it, is there a variable that lets me customize the slime prompt instead?(one that i could put in my .emacs) 22:58:26 -!- seangrove [~user@c-71-202-126-17.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:58:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:00:49 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:03:41 another, more important thing, that i was concerned about, is partial evaluation 23:04:37 i made up a test, 1-ary and a 2-ary funtion, the second one i wrapped in a lambda to specialize its second argument 23:04:50 the two functions are used in a mapcar 23:05:07 the generated code seems to be the same 23:06:16 i'm profiling under sbcl+slime. is there a way to report the total time a function was active, including the calls to other profiled functions? 23:06:17 my question is then, its not a problem/performance hit to specialize funtion arguments by wrapping them in lambda, the compilation will take of it(keep it efficient) 23:06:34 take care* 23:07:55 *madnificent* doesn't know what mcstar is rambling about (not that i think it's rubbish or anything) 23:08:48 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:44 madnificent: imagine what you do, when you want to map a funtion over a list, but the function has 2 arguments, and the map only provides 1 23:10:02 (i seem to forget the c from my funtions) 23:12:29 -!- Mohikaner [~moe@stgt-5d842798.pool.mediaWays.net] has left #lisp 23:13:27 -!- pnq [~nick@AC810191.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:15:43 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:15:48 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-161-247.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 23:16:06 mcstar: curry. 23:16:25 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:16:48 ^yup, that 23:17:15 mcstar: though, it's rather good of you, to figure out how to do it yourself. :) 23:17:54 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 23:17:59 pjb: yeah, i think i know what "currying" means, its just that i feel it's a bit awkward to use lambda this way, for example in haskell its more natural 23:18:20 ('') 23:18:53 mcstar: it becomes natural as you use it more often, it's quintessential in haskell, which makes it more natural there (at least, that's how i see it) 23:19:32 yeah, their functions are explicitely of arity 1 23:20:13 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@141.205.220.87.dynamic.jazztel.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:23:08 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:23:54 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 23:25:14 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:27:39 pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:27:53 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:47 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:29:51 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 23:41:38 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04DDB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 23:41:47 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:42:49 -!- ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:45:35 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440156.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:46:03 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:47:01 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: quit] 23:47:41 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 23:50:15 weirdo [sthalik@2001:470:7841:dead::1] has joined #lisp 23:51:41 mindCrime_ [~chatzilla@static-50-52-147-222.drhm.nc.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:57 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 23:53:29 -!- sellout1 is now known as sellout 23:56:15 -!- pizzledizzle [~pizdets@pool-96-250-220-99.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [] 23:56:57 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.29.229] has quit [Quit: leaving]