00:00:04 rucksack is nice, though maybe not quite what you're looking for. 00:00:28 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 00:00:50 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:01:35 Shaftoe_: for what it's worth, cl-store loads fine for me in 1.0.51+ 00:01:50 Xach: thanks for checking. 00:02:03 let me double check 00:02:09 Shaftoe_: I'm using the version in quicklisp. 00:02:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:02:57 ah. makes sense. 00:03:08 would ql be doing some magic that would make it work? 00:03:16 Don't think so. 00:03:17 I'll re do my everything and paste the error 00:03:31 Shaftoe_: where did you get your cl-store? I got mine from darcs. 00:04:14 let me try 00:04:16 Shaftoe_: well, I programmed a serialization library last week, but now it seems abandoned, (2011/08/30 was last update). 00:05:51 bam 00:06:00 Xach: the darcs version works. 00:06:05 thanks for the brain debug 00:07:43 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 00:07:52 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:08:50 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:11:35 no problem 00:11:41 Do you use Quicklisp? 00:15:04 not yet. I mean to start 00:15:04 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:15:16 It is pretty rad, if I do say so myself. 00:15:25 that's what everyone seems to be saying. 00:15:31 what makes it so rad for you? 00:15:57 Shaftoe_: I can go from no CL installation to productive installation with slime + any library I want in about 3 minutes. 00:16:07 Shaftoe_: before it would take a long process of accumulation 00:16:18 Xach: that indeed is rad. 00:16:32 Like libraries were twigs and I took weeks to build a comfortable nest with them 00:16:39 Xach: I'm in the process of upgrading my sbcl core. re-compiling etc. every time this song and dance. 00:17:04 hah 00:17:05 great image 00:17:12 I'm nesting as we speak =) 00:17:28 And then sometimes a library I wanted was on a server that didn't work. Or I didn't have darcs installed. 00:17:50 I have a couple of bugs to fix in my own code. once I get the dev env working, I might just use QL to upgrade the production env. 00:17:53 Or the primary library was available but a library way down the dependency chain was in the middle of a bad commit. Or its server was unavailable. That kind of thing. 00:18:03 Or I wanted to use Windows. 00:18:19 Quicklisp just takes care of most of that crud. 00:18:38 what's involved. you just load it up top and are done? 00:19:24 Fetch http://beta.quicklisp.org/quicklisp.lisp, (load "quicklisp.lisp"), and follow the instructions. http://quicklisp.org/beta/ has a walkthrough. 00:22:44 Shaftoe_: oh, i made this movie 00:22:47 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has joined #lisp 00:23:07 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:23:43 http://www.quicklisp.org/beta/screencast.gif 00:23:44 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:23:44 (ql:update-all-dists) 00:23:47 damn. 00:23:56 that right there is worth my weight in gold. 00:24:52 actually it's worth the weight of the volume of you in lead in gold 00:24:54 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:25:25 If only that were true, I could spend the rest of my days working on nothing but Quicklisp improvements. 00:25:44 Xach, do you need more money to be thrown at you 00:26:00 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-64-213.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:26:11 Talk of "worth weight in gold" does seem like the perfect time to rattle the tip jar. 00:26:21 It helps, but it would take way too much to really mean I could spend more time on it :( 00:26:38 *Xach* has a full-time non-quicklisp job with perks & benefits that a tip jar doesn't cover 00:26:52 Plus I don't live in one of those countries with universal health care, boo. 00:26:59 yeah, there's an energy well. Until you can actually quit your other job, you aren't out of the well 00:27:05 Exactly. 00:27:19 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 00:27:40 I've been spending tip jar money on hosting costs and on hardware, like my quicklisp build server. 00:27:47 So that works pretty well. 00:27:50 that well is my bane. all of ours, actually. My adult life has been spent building a small ladder to climb it with more ease 00:28:41 *p_l|backup* actually gave up a quite big possibility of getting a job that pays nicely, yet when done well, could give me time to work on my own projects... 00:28:50 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 00:28:53 My weight in gold is worth 7144806 ... 00:30:33 pjb: did you make sure to account for the price of gold being in troy ounces? 00:30:49 In Europe, the price of gold is given in /kg. 00:30:49 ISF_ [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 00:31:18 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:31:25 pjb, you are nearly twice as rich as me =) 00:31:45 pjb: that's nice 00:32:04 we get not just ounces, but troy ounces which are different from the normal ounces we use every day :( 00:32:06 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:32:44 at least in UK, they are required by law to show SI units outside of road signs 00:32:49 It's about 1.1x heavier. So in the US, an ounce of gold weighs more than an ounce of everything else 00:33:10 In the US SI units are mandated just about everywhere 00:33:27 for example, my 12oz can of soda has (in small print) 355mL written on it 00:33:29 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 00:33:58 the US officially switched to SI in the late 70s 00:34:08 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:34:22 just nobody uses it unless except in official stuff 00:34:35 jasom: your aviation industry missed the memo, and some of us are cursing everyday 00:35:19 (and Russians feel smug, cause they don't allow imperial units - which is an optional, "temporary" allowance in internation air law) 00:35:21 p_l|backup: well... most written stuff in aviation has e.g. the km equivalent *somewhere* on it 00:35:43 but yeah the spoken stuff is all imperial 00:35:44 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 00:35:53 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:35:57 jasom: it's not about actual calculations, it's about bloody instruments using shitty units like feet/minute 00:36:47 I can deal with nautical miles, but feets should die a horrible death 00:36:47 Well we even had a mars orbiter that used both metric and imperial without actually doing any conversions 00:36:56 -!- topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:37:13 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:38:21 That didn't turn out so well 00:40:10 jasom: we had an accident where we nearly lost over a 100 lives, because someone forgot to convert units properly while fueling up 00:40:35 just to be pedantic: nautical miles make sense for navigation because they correspond to 1 arc minute at the equator... 00:40:57 (they told just the number, which was for gallons, instead of specifying it properly in either litres or kilograms, or just telling which unit they used...) 00:41:16 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has joined #lisp 00:41:23 Shaftoe_: yes, that's why I tolerate them, though I prefer km/h instead of knots for IAS 00:41:24 and 1 foot is 1 nanosecond.light, which is cool too. 00:41:44 pjb: very interesting. who'd a thunk it. 00:41:59 p_l|backup: ever heard of the gimli glider? 00:42:11 jasom: that's what I'm referencing :) 00:43:15 jasom: the not-so-funny thing - the skillset that let them survive is quite rare among current airline pilots, and its lack was probably significant in loss of that airfrance flight over atlantic. 00:44:27 That's what I read too, they lack acrobatics competency... 00:45:02 good night fellas. 00:45:19 pjb: that wasn't even acrobatics. The first two acrobatic exercised out of the whole "basic acrobacy" set are required for my gliding license! 00:45:23 -!- Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.29.174] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 00:45:35 just a forward slip, right? 00:45:48 jasom: no, controlled stalls and corckscrews 00:45:55 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.61.123] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:46:07 gimli glider did a slip, of cours 00:46:18 (if that's the correct translation) 00:47:27 slip keeps the track the same while changing the heading 00:47:29 but there's a lot of ATPL-holders that remind me of a programmer who had gone through a JavaSchool and didn't have curiousity for non-mainstream. They might know their engineering (VCS, testing, etc.), but they lack 00:47:39 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:47:42 or vice-versa 00:47:52 The curse of modern days. 00:48:01 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:48:51 jasom: yeah, though it shows how little I thought of that... for me keeping course with different heading is... below noticeable unless in heavy weather or unless doing very specific kind of slip for short landings 00:50:44 topeak [~topeak@123.114.125.95] has joined #lisp 00:50:57 urandom_ [~user@p548A30D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:21 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:47 wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.56.71] has joined #lisp 00:51:55 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:05 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A50CB.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:53:32 -!- urandom_ [~user@p548A30D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:56:43 urandom__ [~user@p548A2D46.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 00:57:31 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:58:55 -!- gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-216-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:03:10 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:03:54 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:04:38 lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 01:09:47 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:10:35 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:10:53 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:11:06 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:13:58 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:15:56 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:27 why doesn't this work: (maplist (lambda (x) (* x x)) (rest (alexandria:iota 5))) ? 01:16:48 I get this error: value (1 2 3 4) is not of the expected type NUMBEr 01:17:04 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 01:17:05 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-51.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:20:05 clhs maplist 01:20:24 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:20:50 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-135-183.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 01:21:17 Or if reading a reference is too arid, use the REPL: (maplist 'print (rest (alexandria:iota 01:21:17 5))) 01:21:31 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:21:34 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-64-213.ny325.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:24:49 whoops, I just assumed maplist was another way of saying map 'list 01:26:38 Try mapcar 01:28:25 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:28:27 xyxu1 [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 01:28:57 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:31:24 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 01:36:19 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC8434.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:22 -!- Axioplase_ is now known as Axioplase 01:36:26 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:40:03 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC8DD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:41:04 Evanescence 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-!- katesmith_ [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:48:54 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 01:49:45 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:30 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:53:53 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:55:42 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:58:11 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:02:18 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:02:22 *bandu* wants to cry. he wishes he had someone local or that he already knew to learn Common LISP with him. 02:03:13 gko [~gko@27.242.29.255] has joined #lisp 02:03:37 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:04:38 bandu: pretend gigamonkey is local by reading http://gigamonkeys.com/book/ 02:05:08 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:05:26 sellout: i'm a social learner. i'm bad at computer languages, but i want to learn anyway. 02:07:04 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:08:00 *bandu* downloads emacs for windows 02:08:29 yes, i use windows. i'm a gamer, and need windows for college. 02:08:48 i hate windows, too, but i need it, so yeah. 02:09:27 bandu: have a look at http://cliki.net/Lisp+Books and http://www.cliki.net/Online+Tutorial 02:09:41 pjb: okay. 02:10:41 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:10:46 for some reason I am getting a type error in my code (lim apparently is supposed to be a list? or my code implies that?): https://gist.github.com/1205325 02:11:03 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:11:23 pjb, sellout: is there a tutorial that shows you how to write an irc bot in lisp? i dont think there is, but.. 02:11:26 just asking.. 02:11:41 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:11:52 for that you need cl-irc, which lacks docs, but does come with example code. 02:11:55 bandu: not that I know of, but there is a cl-irc library that should make it pretty easy. 02:12:00 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:11 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:12:13 sherkund: lim should be a number, since it's passed to MOD. 02:12:45 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 02:13:41 -!- Evanescence [~Evanescen@122.237.21.120] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:13:55 sellout: i see. 02:14:19 pjb: ah, thank you 02:15:13 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1901] 02:15:41 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:56 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:17:57 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:19:35 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:24:48 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 02:25:47 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:27:28 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:28:24 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:16 -!- sellout [~Adium@72.54.105.13] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:29:17 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:29:39 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A2D46.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:23 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 02:31:41 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:35:46 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:37:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:38:42 is it cool to use argument names in a labels function that are the same as the arguments passed to the parent function? 02:39:12 if it makes sense 02:39:43 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:39:57 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.56.71] has quit [Quit: ] 02:40:19 wolfpython [~wolf@180.109.56.71] has joined #lisp 02:40:23 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 02:41:27 it's a lexical binding, iirc, so there should be no conflict, I think 02:42:18 spradnyesh 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[~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:00:08 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 04:00:47 Deathaholic [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has joined #lisp 04:00:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:01:20 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has joined #lisp 04:04:23 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:04:37 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:07:13 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:07:33 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 04:10:02 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 04:10:17 wolfpython [~walter@180.109.56.71] has joined #lisp 04:10:42 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:11:21 what's the difference between alexandria and cl-utilities? 04:11:22 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Client Quit] 04:12:02 -!- wolfpython [~walter@180.109.56.71] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 04:12:21 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:12:34 wolfpython [~walter@180.109.56.71] has joined #lisp 04:12:48 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:12:50 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:16:22 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:21:01 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:24:34 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 04:25:38 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:27:00 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 04:31:00 -!- nowhere_man 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timeout: 260 seconds] 06:45:25 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-206-63.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:45:41 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-206-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:46:54 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:47:42 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:47:51 waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 06:48:32 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 06:51:40 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.29.229] has joined #lisp 06:52:01 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f465.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:53:04 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:55:58 Can I put the pointer of a buffer in emacs in a DEFPACKAGE form, call some magic SLIME function, and have the DEFPACKAGE form extended to export all relevant symbols (which I can then edit)? 06:56:43 I want to write one, but before I do, I'm just checking if it doesn't already exist. 06:57:03 (which would suck to find out later) 06:58:26 *|3b|* usually exports things from the other direction, with C-c x on the symbol i want exported 06:59:00 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:59:45 Thanks |3b|. 06:59:58 *|3b|* wonders how hard it would be to make it work on foo:bar when bar is present but not exported from foo, since that's usually what i have when i realize i want a symbol exported 07:00:53 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:02:03 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:03:35 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.60.196] has joined #lisp 07:04:00 |3b|: Not very hard. Have a look at https://github.com/jtza8/meta-package . 07:05:05 ... for what I did in other stuff. 07:06:48 yay! fixed ABCL's DEFINE-METHOD-COMBINATION! 07:06:55 (very long standing issue) 07:07:08 long form? 07:07:11 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:07:13 yup. 07:07:17 great work 07:07:19 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:07:21 does anybody have good tests? The ones from SBCL's test suite seem to work. 07:08:53 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 07:10:10 dmiles_afk: making the (:ARGUMENTS ...) form work was a long head-wrecking excercise: three levels of back-quoting and unquoting 07:12:04 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:15:49 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:16:35 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:16:36 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:17:01 -!- jfleming [~jfleming@eth59-167-133-99.static.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Player n has left the game] 07:17:09 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:19:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:20:44 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-xyjwzmfdakzyxdzi] has joined #lisp 07:20:48 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:21:53 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:02 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:24:08 good morning 07:25:27 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:25:48 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 07:26:05 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:27:07 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 07:27:17 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:27:20 mvilleneuve: morning 07:27:27 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:31:33 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 07:33:02 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:33:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 07:35:05 -!- jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-68-88.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:36:08 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:37:01 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:39:31 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-51.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:41:01 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:44:29 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 07:45:08 dmiles [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-48-118.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 07:45:34 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:47:11 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@173.239.83.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:47:28 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 07:48:02 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:48:19 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:41 wolfpython [~walter@221.226.209.128] has joined #lisp 07:52:07 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:52:36 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has joined #lisp 07:52:37 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:52:58 -!- antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:53:54 antifuchs [~foobar@care.boinkor.net] has joined #lisp 07:54:11 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:56:44 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:57:21 -!- qsun [~Quan@eth123.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 07:58:34 marsell [~marsell@120.20.195.135] has joined #lisp 08:06:34 tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has joined #lisp 08:06:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:09:53 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:11:03 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:11:49 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:13:18 killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 08:13:28 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-253-83.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 08:14:23 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 08:17:09 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:19:19 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:19:49 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:22:08 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:20 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:22:41 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 08:22:55 what do people think of monads? http://dorophone.blogspot.com/2011/04/deep-emacs-part-1.html i've been reading this stuff 08:24:02 ehu: I've got a few questions ... do you have a bit of time? 08:25:02 flip214: I can probably answer them between other activities; coding at the background, but yes. 08:25:16 -!- wolfpython [~walter@221.226.209.128] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 08:26:12 flip214: shoot. 08:29:20 Do I understand ABCL correctly that it doesn't compile the lisp code into bytecode, but puts the lisp sources into the .jar files? 08:29:43 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 08:30:05 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:30:05 flip214: not really. abcl compiles the lisp code to classes/byte code. those classes are stored in .cls files. 08:30:05 IIUC, how is one supposed to produce "applications" for customers? (I'm supposing not-open-source, of course, but contract-like work) 08:30:43 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:30:44 then I seem to have read wrong articles ... 08:30:50 however, those .cls files need to be 'stitched' together. that's done through a ._ file 08:31:13 which contains statements to create the right environment to load the function classes into. 08:31:28 those *.cls and the ._ file are zipped into a .abcl file. 08:31:35 I read http://www.didierverna.com/sciblog/index.php?post/2011/01/22/Towards-ABCL-Standalone-Executables 08:32:06 is there something like (asdf:build) that gives me a .jar file to directly use with "java -jar"? 08:32:14 TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:32:31 I'd like to get a .jar for each library (licensing reasons), and one for the application part 08:32:45 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:33:04 what I do myself is: create a (small) java application which can be loaded using java -jar ... 08:33:07 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:33:18 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 08:33:28 then, that application loads the right .abcl files which are stored next to the .jar files. 08:33:38 But I assume that the .abcl files left in ~/.cache/common-lisp/abcl* by (ql:quickload) is what I need ... 08:33:53 however, there's functionality to pack entire asdf systems into a single jar 08:34:31 yes, I'd assume that either the .jar files could be put into a full .jar, or at least the contents could be packed into a single .jar 08:34:47 you should ask easyE in #abcl how to exactly use it. but I think there's some documentation floating around as well. Maybe in the abcl-dev blog. 08:35:36 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 08:35:49 ok, fine.... thank you very much! 08:36:08 welcome :-) btw, the packaging functionality is newer than that article 08:36:16 -!- jmcphers [~jmcphers@61.14.141.36] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:55 yes, that's why I'm asking ... it looks too like much hand work for lisp programmers ;) 08:37:44 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2FA4.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:37:55 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 08:41:04 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 08:41:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 08:41:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 08:41:39 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.125.95] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:42:13 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 08:43:11 topeak [~topeak@123.114.125.95] has joined #lisp 08:45:29 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:46:27 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:47:11 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:47:47 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:48:26 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:48:40 -!- guaqua_ is now known as guaqua 08:49:13 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 08:52:54 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:53:12 clog [~nef@bespin.org] has joined #lisp 08:53:40 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 08:54:06 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:57:42 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:58:49 buguldey [~buguldey@46.252.114.115] has joined #lisp 08:58:50 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 09:01:08 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 09:02:32 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 09:03:03 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 09:03:56 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:06:44 tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:39 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:07:58 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:08:56 wolfpython [~walter@222.95.134.102] has joined #lisp 09:10:11 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 09:10:56 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:12:31 gaidal_ [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has joined #lisp 09:12:52 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:14:00 gaidal__ [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has joined #lisp 09:14:14 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has quit [Disconnected by services] 09:14:19 -!- gaidal__ is now known as gaidal 09:16:06 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:16:07 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:17:01 -!- gaidal_ [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:18:54 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:19:05 -!- tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:19:46 tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 09:22:01 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:23:15 larva [~larvanitr@ec2-46-51-171-183.eu-west-1.compute.amazonaws.com] has joined #lisp 09:23:42 I'm trying to understand how to implement APPLY as a macro using only EVAL and FUNCALL. I suppose this should be a pretty basic exercise, but I'm having trouble with the mechanics of suppressing evaluation of quoted forms. Can anyone suggest a relevant discussion or example? 09:24:20 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 09:24:43 algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 09:25:34 <|3b|> seems like an odd thing to do 09:27:11 The reason for this exercise is to fix a broken implementation of APPLY in a lisp-like language. 09:27:31 APPLY is broken in http://programming.nu/index 09:28:11 <|3b|> well, APPLY implemented as a macro would still be pretty broken :p 09:28:13 But the language is not built with apply is a primitive. It's a macro on top of other stuff. 09:28:39 |3b|: Could you explain why? 09:28:48 in real lisp apply is a function (that can be passed to other functions) 09:29:49 okay, so that's one issue -- you can't pass a macro-based apply with HOFs. Are there others? 09:29:57 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDFDDA.dip.t-dialin.net] has left #lisp 09:30:24 <|3b|> that's the main one i can think of 09:30:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:22 algal: i'm not sure what's your issue with evaluation is, because all arguments of apply are evaluated 09:31:29 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:31:31 (because it is a function) 09:31:46 jdz: But not normal evaluation of functions suppresses evaluation of quoted forms. 09:32:08 Once you implement apply as a macro, don't you have to manually handle that? 09:32:43 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 09:32:55 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:32:59 Ok. Line 99 in https://github.com/timburks/nu/blob/amalgamated/nu/nu.nu shows how Nu is implementing APPLY as a macro. This implementation fails I think because, for instance, (apply 'identity (list 'a)) throws an error, instead of returning a. 09:33:28 I'm assuming (identity x) just returns x. 09:34:22 <|3b|> from the comment, it seems you don't want to quote the function arg 09:34:37 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 09:35:15 |3b|: makes no difference. (apply identity (list 'a)) still fails in the same way. 09:35:35 |3b|: (you're right tho, I shouldn't have quoted it the first time.) 09:35:42 -!- lanthan_afh [~ze@p50992b91.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 09:36:08 insomniaSalt [~milan@unaffiliated/iammilan] has joined #lisp 09:36:18 What's happening is that this macro-based definition of apply is effectively double-evaluating the arguments of identity (and identity itself, for that matter). The double-valuation is usually harmless, since forms evaluate to values which are self-evaluating. but when a form is quoted, the first evaluation strips the quote and second tries to lookup the symbol's value. 09:37:28 Anyway, I'm only wondering how one would implement APPLY as a macro in CL. This half for my own curiosity, and half because I could then translate that into a fix for the Nu issue. 09:38:48 I would have thought it was a 2-3 liner, but maybe the quoting issues make it more subtle than that. 09:39:15 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:41:54 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:43:46 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:45:32 Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:45:53 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-fupfukzlyfffcnal] has joined #lisp 09:46:08 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:46:28 is it possible to make cl-ppcre's matching to work on lists of data, instead of on strings? 09:47:25 <|3b|> algal: (defun apply (f &rest a) (eval `(funcall ',f ,@(butlast a) ,@(car (last a))))) 09:48:27 wait, i just found the page pattern-matching on cliki, i'll check that out first (no idea why i missed it last time) 09:49:51 -!- waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 09:49:52 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has left #lisp 09:49:58 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:50:32 |3b|: I don't think that works. Compare (apply (lambda (x) x) '(a)) and (yourapply (lambda (x) x) '(a)) 09:51:16 It doesn't handle the quoting issue. 09:51:34 <|3b|> ah, right 09:52:06 |3b|: and what's with all the butlast/last magic? 09:52:11 <|3b|> i guess add a QUOTE to all the arguments 09:52:32 |3b|: oh, nvm 09:52:36 <|3b|> jdz: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/26_glo_s.htm#spreadable_argument_list_designator 09:52:46 also, it's a function not macro, and I'm not sure I can use list splicing in functions in Nu. 09:53:33 algal: it's just a syntactic sugar for append/nconc/list* 09:55:47 <|3b|> (defun apply (f &rest a) (eval (cons 'funcall (mapcar (lambda (a) (list 'quote a)) (append (list f) (butlast a) (car (last a))))))) ? 09:56:06 *|3b|* suspects that could be simpler, but is too lazy to figure out how :p 09:58:20 killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has joined #lisp 09:58:23 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:01:44 |3b|: interesting.. maybe this works. now I only need to understand it. 10:01:51 :) 10:03:42 <|3b|> from the inside: (append ...) builds a list with the function and the arguments (with the butlast and last stuff to do the 'spreadable argument designator' stuff in cl:apply that NU doesn't seem to bother with) 10:04:00 <|3b|> then the mapcar wraps each element of that list in (QUOTE ...) 10:04:22 <|3b|> then it puts funcall at the beginning of the list and evaluates it 10:05:14 <|3b|> since it is a function, all the arguments have already been evaluates once, so quoting them prevents further evaluation 10:06:05 So putting them in lambda takes care of proper (non-)evaluation of quoted forms that might be midway down a tree of conses ? 10:07:06 <|3b|> the (lammbda (a) (list 'quote a)) is just the function passed to mapcar to quote the arguments 10:09:11 <|3b|> so (apply #'+ 1 2 3 (list 4 5)) ends up calling EVAL with (funcall '<#function +> '1 '2 '3 '4 '5) 10:11:12 <|3b|> you could probably do the same thing with a macro, but getting the evaluation correct would be more of a hassle 10:11:48 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:12:43 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Quit: leaving] 10:13:15 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:13:21 sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 10:14:15 dmc1 [~massimo@linkvago129-9.linkwave.it] has joined #lisp 10:16:41 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:17:01 -!- dmc1 [~massimo@linkvago129-9.linkwave.it] has left #lisp 10:18:43 -!- ZabaQ1 is now known as ZabaQ 10:22:26 hmm.. thanks. I'll think on this. 10:23:32 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.195.135] has quit [Quit: marsell] 10:32:28 -!- algal [~anonymous@78-86-30-77.zone2.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: algal] 10:34:03 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:35:11 -!- sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has left #lisp 10:36:19 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:36:51 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 10:39:38 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:39:47 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 10:40:16 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 10:41:01 is it possible to suppress compiler notes for some specific function definitions? 10:41:11 this is under sbcl in case it matters 10:45:07 found it, it was in the manual. 10:45:34 (declare (sb-ext:muffle-conditions sb-ext:compiler-note)) ; very nice 10:53:30 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 10:55:10 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 10:55:58 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:58:18 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 10:59:28 -!- tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:01:59 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 11:03:32 Would someone know if Tamas Papp is still at Princeton (trying to send him an email)? 11:06:43 The last time I saw an e-mail from him, which was July 20, he used Tamas Papp 11:07:27 Furthermore, he has been using said address since at least 2008. 11:08:06 kpreid: Thanks. 11:09:19 tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 11:09:20 gavino [~g@207-180-177-44.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:10:34 wolfpython_ [~walter@222.95.134.102] has joined #lisp 11:11:46 -!- wolfpython [~walter@222.95.134.102] has quit [Quit: ] 11:12:06 -!- wolfpython_ [~walter@222.95.134.102] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:44 wolfpython [~wolf@222.95.134.102] has joined #lisp 11:15:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.131] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 11:15:48 -!- sacho [~sacho@82.137.64.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:16:07 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 11:18:45 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:19:01 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 11:20:31 lisp!! oh yeah! 11:21:33 rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:23:22 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:23:23 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:23:40 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:50 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:30:58 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 11:34:24 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:36:27 beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-93-227.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 11:38:05 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@222.95.134.102] has quit [Quit: ] 11:40:58 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 11:41:30 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 11:42:51 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:44:24 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-toqsfpncfxjajtcl] has left #lisp 11:46:27 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 11:50:20 xan_ [~xan@8.Red-83-39-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:53:58 phax [~phax@5e0814d2.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 11:53:58 -!- phax [~phax@5e0814d2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Changing host] 11:53:58 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 11:54:04 crunzcrunch [~33@151.75.163.46] has joined #lisp 11:55:36 pnq [~nick@AC82073C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:56:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-193-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:28 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:58:48 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:59:57 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:02:58 scombinator [~user@121.98.92.184] has joined #lisp 12:04:09 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:19 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-236-182.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 12:05:36 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 12:07:17 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:09:53 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.125.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:10:06 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:11:36 -!- anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 12:14:04 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 12:15:59 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:16:54 H4ns: is there a berlin lisp meetup planned for sep? 12:17:40 C-Keen: yes, it will be in a pub though. no speakers planned 12:17:53 Hi (maphash #'(lambda (k v) (declare (ignorable k)) (list k v)) table) will not reurn anything. I am obliged to use 'push' within the maphash to push data to a variable ... isn't there a way to force maphash to return a list? 12:17:56 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:02 H4ns: is there a date yet? 12:18:09 C-Keen: no, sorry 12:18:17 oh ok 12:18:45 francogrex: no. that is a good use for loop 12:18:53 :( 12:19:57 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has joined #lisp 12:20:23 (loop for k being the hash-keys of ht for v being the hash-values of ht collecting (list k v)) 12:20:31 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 12:21:17 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.60.196] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:21:17 <_3b> is LOOP guaranteed to give you corresponding keys and values when you iterate them separately like that? 12:21:50 I have no idea 12:22:01 I believe there is with-hash-table-iterator 12:22:06 not but one can use "using the hash-value v" 12:22:21 i like iterate's syntax more for this. (iter (for (key value) in hash) ... ) 12:22:37 -!- zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:22:48 (iter (for (key value) in-hashtable hash) ... ) even 12:25:09 anonus [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 12:25:18 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.154.207] has joined #lisp 12:25:45 (loop for k being the hash-key of table using (hash-value v) collect (list k v)) 12:26:00 but it's a pity maphash cannot return 12:26:01 (alexandria:hash-table-plist hash-table) 12:26:47 adeht: nice, tried it and weoks nicely 12:27:35 francogrex: it's easy to wrap it in a let and use push. 12:27:45 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:28:59 francogrex: it's actually not equivalent to your code.. 12:29:09 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 12:30:25 Is there a loop syntax to do multiple value binds each iteration? 12:30:31 -!- gavino [~g@207-180-177-44.c3-0.bkl-ubr1.sbo-bkl.ma.cable.rcn.com] has left #lisp 12:31:45 scombinator: no.. you could use multiple-value-list + destructuring, but in general I prefer to just use multiple-value-bind 12:33:13 pjb: for maphash ypu mean, yes that's what I'm doing 12:33:23 yes. 12:35:06 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82073C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:35:17 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099114.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:36:04 scombinator: iterate has (for (values a b c) = (...)) ... I don't know whether that works in loop, too 12:36:32 -!- kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-fupfukzlyfffcnal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:36:32 (with-hash-table-iterator (iterator *foo*) (print (loop for (more key value) = (multiple-value-list (iterator)) collect (list key value) while more))) 12:36:41 oh wait 12:37:01 (with-hash-table-iterator (iterator *foo*) (print (loop for (more key value) = (multiple-value-list (iterator)) while more collect (list key value)))) 12:37:16 You need the while before the collect, but that works for me on SBCL 12:37:29 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:43:27 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440156.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:47:29 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:48:04 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:48:08 kdas_ [kdas@nat/redhat/x-glxdvbpivsjclwyn] has joined #lisp 12:49:00 -!- crunzcrunch [~33@151.75.163.46] 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13:37:32 -!- xan_ [~xan@8.Red-83-39-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:38:21 -!- tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:38:51 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:39:37 ZabaQ: not every other, but there is a definite lack of sensible condition systems... at least VMS and Windows got system-wide conditions 13:39:55 -!- drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:43:15 xan_ [~xan@8.Red-83-39-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 13:46:43 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:46:53 tcr [~tcr@host252-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 13:48:04 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:53:34 urandom__ [~user@p548A5233.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:53:58 fangsituring [~fsturing@2001:da8:204:3312:62eb:69ff:feb2:79df] has joined #lisp 13:54:55 -!- scombinator [~user@121.98.92.184] has quit 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14:29:50 wolfpython [~wolf@222.95.134.102] has joined #lisp 14:30:09 -!- rsynnott_ is now known as rsynnott 14:30:46 aliao [~user@115.63.132.10] has joined #lisp 14:32:39 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:32:52 -!- aliao [~user@115.63.132.10] has left #lisp 14:33:51 louis418 [~louis@cm218-253-158-90.hkcable.com.hk] has joined #lisp 14:34:59 -!- morphling [~quassel@84.38.68.108] has quit [Quit: No Ping reply in 180 seconds.] 14:35:14 morphling [~quassel@84.38.68.108] has joined #lisp 14:38:16 -!- louis418 [~louis@cm218-253-158-90.hkcable.com.hk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:38:37 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.159] has joined #lisp 14:39:47 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@222.95.134.102] has quit [Quit: ] 14:40:07 wolfpython [~wolf@222.95.134.102] has joined #lisp 14:48:08 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2096E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:49:47 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 14:52:36 bobbysmith007: clsql-orm doesn't build for me any more, opened a github issue for it 14:54:53 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:55:59 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:56:28 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:57:53 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:42 mcstar [~mcstar@szfkipc72.szfki.kfki.hu] has joined #lisp 15:00:00 yeah, jsut fixed it, sorry and thanks 15:00:18 test building now, but I anticipate success 15:00:41 seemed to go, thanks again! 15:00:44 wins here 15:01:24 Xach: do you have a build server for quicklisp stuff, or how are you testing the building of all these projects? 15:01:37 TDT: i have a build server 15:01:56 TDT: about once a day i kick off a full build of everything and check for changes since the last dist 15:02:06 if something fails to build, i report it 15:02:13 What software are you using for the build testing? 15:02:15 clack also had a problem that was fixed yesterday 15:02:17 rme [~rme@50.43.187.92] has joined #lisp 15:02:21 quicklisp-controller 15:02:46 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.74] has joined #lisp 15:02:59 oh, I see, so a home-grown one. Reason I ask is I do little testing of my software, but eventually want to get into the mode of doing that..but having a build server that kicks off builds on commits would be nice. 15:03:33 I need to improve my process a lot. 15:04:04 This currently works well enough to make it unattractive to invest a lot of time in changing it, but it has serious problems. 15:04:18 does quicklisp-controller start a new lisp for every system? 15:04:21 Fade: yes 15:04:23 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:04:30 *Fade* nods 15:04:33 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@222.95.134.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:04:46 *Xach* wishes SBCL fasl loading was faster 15:04:53 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 15:05:22 back in the dark ages, when I was minioning a bit for you I did manage to get about 2/3's of the systems in QL at the time loaded before some catastrophic name clash brought it down. 15:05:36 but that is definitely not a reasonable approach. 15:05:53 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:06:21 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:07:16 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:07:24 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.206.88] has joined #lisp 15:09:08 dl [~user@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.223.74] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:09:08 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 15:09:19 I really want to put up that symbol database 15:09:41 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:09:57 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 15:10:27 EyesIsServer [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 15:11:09 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 15:12:22 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 15:14:55 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 15:17:07 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 15:17:25 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 15:17:41 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:17:46 schme [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 15:17:46 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 15:17:46 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 15:18:29 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:18:35 *maxm* has on on his todo list to make a hack that auto-resolves name conflicts based on (:use) order of the package 15:19:27 dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-fjdbyrhjejjcsgad] has joined #lisp 15:19:55 ie I if I do (:use :cl-ppcre :obscure-package) and :obscure-package exports :scan, it would resolve it in preference of :cl-ppcre 15:22:08 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:22:27 anyone know if hunchentoot's session generate a random session id? 15:23:25 it's not fully random, but it's mostly random enough. 15:24:24 so I'm better off generating a unique random number on my own? just in case? 15:25:09 maybe, maybe not. I use a random number. 15:25:23 I want to use it as part of a filename... :S 15:25:35 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:25:44 hunchentoot uses md5 twice, *session-secret*, and the user-agent and remote-addr 15:25:57 check hunchentoot::encode-session-string for deets. 15:26:35 so, assuming *session-secret* is large enough, that should avoid malicious attacks 15:26:37 -!- ikki [~ikki@200.95.162.194] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:27:29 sykopomp: wait, isn't that an issue for the same UA behind a NAT on two nodes? 15:27:51 http://thinkvitamin.com/code/how-to-create-bulletproof-sessions/ is a nice link on sessions, imo. 15:29:02 Me, I just use RANDOM to generate a 256-char random string to use as a session identifier, and store both the IP address and host server-side. I also make the cookie HttpOnly, and expect to only transfer it through SSL. 15:29:32 I'm not sure how trustworthy RANDOM is supposed to be, though. 15:29:45 on various implementations... 15:29:49 sykopomp: someone was complaining earlier about having a hard to trace bug, based on the fact that (random) always uses same seed by default 15:29:53 or was it you? 15:30:11 I don't know if it was me. 15:30:11 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@szfkipc72.szfki.kfki.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 15:30:23 you need to do (setf *random-state* (make-random-state t)) on web server startup, otherwise session id's generated will be same after each restart 15:30:29 sykopomp: I don't think it is very good, I bet with a few hundred or thousand sequential IDs I could come up with your seed (or a small number of possible seeds) 15:30:30 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:42 which is ok if they are memory only, but will get you in trouble if you store them in db or files 15:30:50 I guess RANDOM is probably not good enough, and it's best to just cat /dev/random, right? :) 15:31:03 sykopomp: or /dev/urandom if you're on linux 15:31:23 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:31:34 how do I grab the session id from the hunchentoot:session? 15:31:38 (session-value id)? 15:31:51 optikalmouse: 'id, I think. 15:32:00 jasom: urandom isn't random enough! 15:32:04 orite, symbol ;p 15:32:05 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-4.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:07 -!- dl [~user@c-174-56-88-67.hsd1.nm.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:32:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-4.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:32:49 sykopomp: Yes it is :P 15:32:55 *sykopomp* reads the man page for urandom and uses urandom. :) 15:33:10 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:33:12 in fact on BSD random and urandom are the same IIRC 15:33:55 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:39 CL:RANDOM is indeed not guaranteed to be crypto safe. 15:34:51 TDT_ [~TDT@dhcpw80ff6662.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:35:18 *sykopomp* wonders if there's a crypto safe rng that works on both windows and linux. 15:35:24 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:35:35 sykopomp: you could try rolling your own with ironclad 15:35:39 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:35:39 -!- TDT_ is now known as TDT 15:35:41 but you'll get it wrong 15:35:48 yeah :) 15:35:51 home rolled crypto is always such a fantastic idea. 15:36:14 hashed salt + unique value is probably good enough. 15:36:18 yeah 15:36:48 -!- TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:36:49 (hashed salt only not so much -- beware php devs ;) 15:38:05 but... is there a way to generate crypto-safe random strings that already exists? 15:38:18 sykopomp: openSSL has a PRNG I think 15:38:30 sykopomp: what's wrong with what hunchentoot does? 15:39:08 pkhuong: if it is what someone said earlier, the same UA and same address will always get the same session ID, which seems bad 15:39:37 sykopomp: CL+SSL:RANDOM-BYTES 15:39:48 Generates count cryptographically strong pseudo-random bytes. Returns the bytes as a simple-array with element-type '(unsigned-byte 8). Signals an error in case of problems, for example when the OpenSSL random number generator has not been seeded with enough randomness to ensure an unpredictable byte sequence. 15:40:02 depends on the FFI. 15:40:20 jasom: thanks! 15:41:04 salt, uuid, hash. It's probably safer than random bytes against collisions. 15:41:44 pkhuong: if the hash is any good then it's exactly as safe as random bytes against collisions, right? Since the hash should be indistinguishable from random bytes 15:42:33 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:42:48 jasom: is that a relatively new function?... 15:42:58 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 15:42:59 sykopomp: I don't know, I found it on cliki.net 15:43:15 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:43:59 jasom: some are designed to be permutation functions on small inputs, iirc. And randomness across multiple machines might be more repeatable than expected. 15:45:13 pkhuong: if randomness isn't as random as you think, then the UUID can probably be guessed by the attacker anyway and you're in the same boat as where you started 15:46:00 jasom: the attacked would also have to guess the salt. 15:47:24 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:48:44 pkhuong: the salt can be attacked offline 15:48:47 Some UUID schemes are designed to ensure better uniqueness than pseudo random bytes, even across machines or processes. It makes them more predictable, but that's what the hash step is for. 15:49:24 jasom: it's the point at which I hope sykopomp is not designing life-critical or financial software. 15:49:41 pkhuong: yeah, *but* there is a 1/2^128 chance of two UUIDs hashing to the same md5. and there is a 1/2^128 chance of two 128 bit random numbers colliding 15:49:54 jasom: only if they're truly random. 15:50:23 pkhuong: they don't have to be truly random, they just need to be evenly distributed 15:50:43 no, they need to be independent streams as well. 15:50:49 right 15:50:54 pkhuong: ...it's pretty close to the requirements of financial software. 15:50:59 If it were that easy to have consistently independent random numbers, we wouldn't have UUIDs. 15:51:16 *sykopomp* is fortunately not the only one standing between security and not, but would like to give it a damn good shot. 15:51:21 sykopomp: doesn't SSL do all that stuff for you then? 15:51:51 pkhuong: but the OpenSSL prng is probably something like "generate a random number and use it for some cypher in block mode" which is pretty good 15:51:52 pkhuong: openssl does, indeed, have a random-byte generator. 15:52:01 sykopomp: no, SSL itself. 15:52:06 which seems like the best solution. 15:52:32 pkhuong: protecting the cookie from hijacking by using SSL is another step, yes. 15:52:33 You know, https, the padlock icon? 15:52:44 but it also needs to be reasonably protected from guessing. 15:52:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:52:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 15:52:50 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 15:52:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:53:06 yes, and that is not good enough if your session IDs are guessable. 15:53:09 sykopomp: how about protecting the whole session with SSL? 15:53:09 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:53:23 SSL only protects the cookie from being hijacked in transit. 15:53:24 don't worry, financial software isn't that secure, my mortgage site has an XSS vulnerability that noscript found the first time I connected to it 15:53:38 pkhuong: what does that mean? 15:53:39 (it literally stuffs part of the "POST" data directly inbetween the tags) 15:54:16 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:55:47 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CC35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:55:48 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:56:01 sykopomp: SSL was designed exactly for that sort of use case: authenticate once and then exchange data on a persistent secure socket. I forgot that HTTP just goes out of its way to break that. 15:56:51 moxy marlinspike had a pretty good blackhat session on SSL's origins and operational reality. 15:57:13 ehu [~erik@62.140.137.106] has joined #lisp 15:57:20 pkhuong: You mean actually distributing the appropriate certificate to clients, and having their browser configured to do this? 15:57:53 are any of you using SSL sessions /w hunchentoot? 15:59:05 *sykopomp* plans to, but hasn't set up SSL certs yet. 15:59:11 sykopomp: no. Just exchange keys once and then exchange all the data you want. Since the key exchange happens only when you open the socket, there's no MITM risk each time you send/receive a packet. But HTTP doesn't work that way. 15:59:25 -!- rstandy` [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:59:59 jasom: how did it find that vulnerability? :-| 16:00:15 jasom: still, my worry with secure RNGs isn't that they're easy to guess for attackers, but simply that different machines can end up being unluckily synchronised. 16:01:10 optikalmouse: because it uses that to brand the site differently depending on where you get to it from (different CSS, images, etc) 16:01:24 -!- christoph_debian [~user@oteiza.siccegge.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:01:53 and noscript is very unhappy about sending data that looks like stuff that belongs in an html header 16:01:57 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-51.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:24 One is a security issue, the other functionality. And as much fun as it is to be paranoid, it seems equally or more important to me to have a working product that's immune to *accidental* exploitation. 16:02:24 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-130-197.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:02:30 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 16:03:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:04:34 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:06:00 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.206.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:06:01 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 16:06:15 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:13 what factors are used in generating UUID's? 16:08:26 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 16:11:06 the classic one is MAC + time. 16:11:51 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 16:12:27 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:12:47 i came across this library yesterday that implements rfc 4122, 16:12:47 https://github.com/mon-key/unicly 16:13:50 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 16:13:57 schme [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:13:57 -!- schme [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 16:13:57 schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:14:18 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:14:41 I have been using the uuid package in quicklisp. 16:14:59 because I needed a quick and dirty means to produce unique tokens. 16:15:02 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-130-197.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 16:15:23 and it seems much more sane. Certainly less code. 16:15:48 it has been working fine; i just haven't dived into the details of its implementation. 16:17:15 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 16:17:30 (not thread-safe, though) 16:17:32 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ff6662.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 16:17:50 oh? 16:18:21 you just have to be careful to protect UUID generation with a mutex. 16:18:29 i probably should check that out instead since what i need now is 16:18:29 also quick and dirty 16:18:55 pkhuong: cool. thanks 16:20:25 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:28 A v1 UUID will use the MAC address and time, and there's enough extra bits to count duplicates (or sleep for a tiny amount of time if that field's about to overflow) 16:20:52 altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:22:52 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ff6662.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 16:23:05 -!- ehu [~erik@62.140.137.106] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:23:16 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 16:26:01 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-130-197.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:15 *nod* 16:28:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-234-130-197.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:32:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:32:49 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:33:03 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:34:19 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.134] has joined #lisp 16:36:57 rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has joined #lisp 16:37:05 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.134] has quit [Client Quit] 16:41:00 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ff6662.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:42:38 dstatyvka [ejabberd@pepelaz.jabber.od.ua] has joined #lisp 16:43:13 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:45:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:46:41 fangsituring [~fangsitur@2001:da8:204:3312:62eb:69ff:feb2:79df] has joined #lisp 16:49:10 ZabaQ1 [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:54 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has joined #lisp 16:50:13 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:52:17 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d871519.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:55:29 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:35 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 16:57:28 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-51.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:57:52 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-154-51.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:59 -!- tarmil` [~user@109.74.51.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:01:45 -!- rexim [~rexim@91.204.184.177] has quit [Quit:     (xchat 2.4.5  )] 17:03:46 Profiling in SBCL I see "foreign function _syscall6". How can I figure out which syscall this corresponds to? 17:04:27 easyE: look at the caller. 17:05:12 I'm using the :flat report. Is there another type that shows the caller? 17:05:37 the default report will give you both a flat list and a list of call cycles 17:05:54 that way you can look for expensive functions, and see both their callers and callees 17:06:19 Ah. Probably the :graph type. Thanks. 17:08:02 Hmm. thr_sigsetmask() is the caller. Which is super-weird that it dominates my run, as I am only using one thread. 17:08:14 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 17:08:32 easyE: you can find the caller (again), if you want. 17:09:02 pkhuong: Sorry, I don't follow. 17:09:38 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 17:09:44 find what it is that calls thr_sigsetmask. 17:10:02 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 17:10:50 Euthydem1s` [~euthydemu@vaxjo6.168.cust.blixtvik.net] has joined #lisp 17:10:58 -!- Euthydem1s` [~euthydemu@vaxjo6.168.cust.blixtvik.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:11:17 Do I do that by adjusting the :max-depth arg? 17:12:10 pretty sure it records more than 1 frame deep by default. 17:12:15 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:12:42 I don't see that behavior. Using :max-depth 10 didn't give any new information. 17:13:46 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 17:14:22 -!- Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:18:49 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-012-053.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:24:11 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:27:24 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:28:10 -!- fangsituring [~fangsitur@2001:da8:204:3312:62eb:69ff:feb2:79df] has left #lisp 17:30:37 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.73] has joined #lisp 17:33:05 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 17:36:50 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:47 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:43:39 rbuck_ [~rbuck@mobile-198-228-196-249.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:58 pnq [~nick@AC822F6E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:49:30 marsell [~marsell@120.22.249.137] has joined #lisp 17:49:53 anyone know how many ounces would the small mug from CafePress hold? it just says the measurements (3.75" tall, 3" diameter) 17:50:26 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:51:41 a standard american coffee mug is usually 8 ounces. 17:55:01 hmm, that sounds kinda small. I think i found it though, apparently 11oz. 17:55:04 although the measurements indicate ~26.5 cubic inches 17:55:38 +/- the thickness of the walls of the mug. 17:55:48 which is about 14.6 oz 17:56:06 these numbers don't make any sense to me (: 17:56:25 well, the units are stupid :) 17:56:26 their general browsing page filters by oz, and it seems like their small is 11oz and large is 15oz 17:56:50 antifuchs: i just know because the self-serve coffee machine gives me 3 options in oz :D 17:57:28 (and baby bottles hold 8oz, but those are thin/long so hard to eyeball based on that) 17:57:29 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:57:37 Fade: If you handed someone an 8 oz mug of coffee in the US, they'd think it was an espresso ;) 17:57:42 I just find it weird that the oz and cubic inches measurements have no clear relation to each other (: 17:57:45 *Fade* laughs 17:57:56 a little > 8oz. (sorry for the OT, I'm done :) ) 17:58:01 well, on a measuring cup 1cup == 8oz 17:58:19 Fade: ah good to know 17:58:28 Fade: yeah, and only toddlers drink actual cup-sized cups. 17:58:36 of course, this is only useful info if you're cooking with american recipes. 17:58:43 lol pkhuong 17:59:39 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 17:59:50 Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.29.174] has joined #lisp 18:00:23 also useful when you accidentally ripped off the metric values off the package. 18:00:24 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:00:50 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has joined #lisp 18:00:56 Hi all. I just upgraded from sbcl 1.0.35 to 1.0.51 and code that previously compiled fine is now giving me a warning during a call to CHECK-MI-INITARGS 18:01:01 anyone have any ideas? 18:01:25 in particular, I don't really understand what the error I get *is*. 18:02:02 not enough information. 18:02:14 indeed. I feel the same way. 18:02:15 what does the warning -say-? 18:02:48 warnings says exactly: debugger invoked on a SB-PCL::INITARG-ERROR [...] Invalid initialization argument: 18:02:49 :PAGE-TYPE 18:02:49 in call for class #. 18:03:07 (SB-PCL::CHECK-MI-INITARGS 18:03:07 # 18:03:07 (:STATIC-P T :PAGE-TYPE "dummy")) 18:03:49 Shaftoe_: Are you using your own metaclass? 18:04:16 Xach: yes, it uses a metaclass as a base 18:04:18 -!- vert2 [~vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-jeyksbcxcaoaqhvi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:44 -!- guther_ [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-bxvizjqgwdijugct] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:04:49 I have no idea what it's complaining about, and I can't even create a simple error to narrow it down. 18:05:44 pasting the code might let others help you. 18:05:47 But just looking at that, does anyone have any idea what it's saying? or is that error message as opaque to you as it is to me? keep in mind this code still compiles just fine in 1.0.32 18:06:07 I can paste a sample, hold on. 18:06:59 compile it with maximal debugging? 18:08:11 -!- pnq [~nick@AC822F6E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:08:20 Fade: how do I do that? 18:09:03 C-u C-c C-c will do it for a single form 18:09:08 C-u C-c C-k for a file 18:09:55 or you can evaluate (declaim (optimize debug)) in the repl before loading it. 18:09:57 Xach: thanks. I'll try this now, and then if I still can't figure it out, will send a paste bin entry 18:11:34 HG` [~HG@p5DC04E4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:13:36 kdas_ [~kdas@114.143.165.74] has joined #lisp 18:14:50 Shaftoe_: "it worked in an old sbcl" might mean that the old sbcl was broken in such a way that it accepted code that violates the spec, and it has since been repaired. 18:15:04 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:32 Xach: quite likely the case. However the new message isn't giving me enough info... let me paste the code but I'll warn that I still can't manage to get the error to show up in a Slime REPL while swank is running... hold on 18:18:11 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:18:52 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124579 18:19:45 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-13-242.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 18:21:16 fwiw: I'm unable to get this error when I compile from a slime repl. I'm dumb founded. I think I'm going to take a break. maybe my brain is malfunctioning. 18:24:19 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.73] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:25:15 How do you get that error? 18:26:15 I run a build script which loads a bunch of files and at the end calls save-lisp-and-die 18:26:26 a bunch of files = one file, which includes other files. 18:26:26 Ah. 18:26:50 only when I run from the command line do I get an error. 18:26:54 If you can narrow it down to something small and self-contained, I'd be happy to peek at it. 18:26:59 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:27:39 Xach: I appreciate it. I'm going to eat, read a bit, and then get back at it. Most likely I will resolve it in one shot but if I don't and manage to isolate something concrete, I'll hit back the channel. 18:28:38 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:29:04 -!- rbuck_ [~rbuck@mobile-198-228-196-249.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: rbuck gone away...] 18:29:52 -!- kdas_ is now known as kushal 18:30:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.74] has quit [Changing host] 18:30:04 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 18:33:34 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:33:49 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 18:34:47 isn't there a standard way to get the lambda list of a function? 18:35:54 function-lambda-expression, but it's allowed to be pretty useless. 18:36:37 not exactly the same thing and yes, essentially useless 18:38:32 => nil T foo 18:38:34 how helpful! 18:39:36 You can look at how swank does it, but there's no standard way. 18:45:49 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:46:16 pulling the introspection stuff out of swank into something standalone would be nice 18:47:31 Why not just use swank? 18:49:01 possible but probably not something i want to pull in just for this 18:51:49 *Xach* scratches head 18:52:00 You don't want to pull in something that solves your problem? 18:53:44 swank seems like a rather heavy dependency just to check an argument list portably, which probably isn't the best solution here anyway 18:54:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has joined #lisp 18:55:22 All dependencies are just a quickload away 18:55:28 heh 18:57:23 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:59:34 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:00:30 There ought to be a Roast Chicken Common Lisp 19:00:44 -!- ZabaQ1 is now known as ZabaQ 19:04:09 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 19:05:34 not vegetarian 19:05:55 Allegro ID gripe: you have to -click- on a function to see the args lambda list. :) 19:05:56 Well, you can also have an Aspargus and Beans Common Lisp if you want. 19:06:00 IDE* 19:09:20 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 19:10:17 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C612.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:14:54 felideon: pft. Is that the best you can do? ;) 19:15:21 please, no gripes! 19:17:52 -!- tcr [~tcr@host252-2.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:17:54 It was just semi-relevant. :) 19:18:01 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:18:16 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 19:20:17 -!- Shaftoe_ [~memet@88.242.29.174] has quit [Quit: Shaftoe_] 19:22:29 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 19:31:54 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-253-83.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:26 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-231-141.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 19:40:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:41:48 sprayzor [~user@213.37.73.151.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 19:41:51 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:42:33 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:42:58 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c299a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:13 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:48:25 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.69.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:51:32 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:41 hi 19:52:07 closure000 [~linh_mtra@123.24.103.218] has joined #lisp 19:52:21 peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has joined #lisp 19:52:29 -!- closure000 [~linh_mtra@123.24.103.218] has left #lisp 19:53:04 http://apache2-very.escobar.dreamhost.com/ is :( 19:54:04 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.69.138] has joined #lisp 19:54:09 sorry, wrong channel; ignore me 19:58:06 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-53-36.access.telenet.be] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:58:37 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C612.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 20:01:56 -!- peterhil [~peterhil@gw.maxisat.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:04:05 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:05:10 gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-qzcesqzvsfsfthue] has joined #lisp 20:05:15 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: bhyde] 20:05:51 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C612.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:05:51 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:21 -!- bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-31-28-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 20:06:33 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:06:50 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7C612.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 20:08:09 mr_kid168 [~linh_mtra@123.24.103.218] has joined #lisp 20:08:55 -!- mr_kid168 [~linh_mtra@123.24.103.218] has left #lisp 20:08:58 lanthan [~ze@p54B7C612.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 20:09:17 scrimohsin [~joeblow@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 20:09:33 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@thewall.novi.lib.mi.us] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 20:11:57 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:12:00 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-205.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:14:19 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:14:49 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-188-4.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:32 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-52-56.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 20:17:47 -!- homie` is now known as homie 20:19:11 -!- wbooze` is now known as wbooze 20:20:07 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.249.137] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:20:11 tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has joined #lisp 20:20:29 marsell [~marsell@120.22.249.137] has joined #lisp 20:23:20 every time I close the lisp sesswion with ,s, that the buffer has a running process. 20:23:23 darn 20:23:55 every time I close the lisp session with ',s', i get a message that the buffer has a running process 20:24:42 then it wants me to confirm the kill. The message gets overlayed by another one, "connection closed." 20:24:56 seems like a bug. Or is it a problem with the setup? 20:27:59 it's not a bug, it's a feature! 20:28:00 -!- scrimohsin [~joeblow@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:36 keeps you from accidentally closing your slime 20:29:24 anvandare: at that point, slime is already closed 20:29:39 *anvandare* tries it 20:30:55 hmm, apparently the sbcl is still running, and so is the connexion to it 20:32:07 so it was intended as a "do you really want to close slime?" feature? 20:32:19 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:17 i think more in an emacs way 20:33:28 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:33:33 try it by having emacs open a different process and closing it, i think it'll give the same warning 20:34:11 well, it didn't show that warning a couple of months ago 20:35:46 some particular cosmic alignments may change the normal runnings of your emaxen 20:37:05 prxq: what are you trying to use ,s for? 20:38:02 to exit slime 20:38:43 that's what it has been good for for a couple of years 20:39:26 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:40:01 argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.55.158] has joined #lisp 20:41:17 exit slime and close/kill the inferior lisp process? 20:42:05 for that I use ,q but I might be misunderstanding what ,s is for 20:42:58 hm, that works. It used to be ,s. Maybe it has bitrotted 20:43:06 felideon: thx 20:43:10 -!- bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has left #lisp 20:44:14 prxq: you're welcome 20:46:56 prxq: and I've used it for three years :P 20:48:18 ,s was supposed to kill all slime buffers too, I think 20:48:25 (I never use it) 20:48:42 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has joined #lisp 20:50:40 so that's where my slime-scratch buffer went! 20:51:33 I hadn't noticed till now. 20:51:41 yeah, it seems like a harmful command to me, but some people like it, I guess 20:53:19 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:53:47 it may be a relic of old times 20:54:22 speaking of which, does anyone know of a recentish hunchentoot intro? 20:54:26 a more elegant weapon, from a more civilized time? 20:54:54 prxq: no. The most recent known is written in sumerian, cuneiform. 20:55:08 :D 20:55:15 that will do 20:55:58 -!- argiopeweb [~elliot@155.31.55.158] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:56:13 I like to imagine that on the universal scale, our galaxy is a pixel displaying a hunchentoot tutorial (: 20:56:43 that's a very inspiring thought! 20:57:15 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 20:58:13 so, I guess you're asking for a tutorial post-big bang? (; 20:59:26 preferably, although that point is negotiable :) 21:00:26 *prxq* is clawing this together from old and strange tutorials 21:00:53 -!- mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:00:54 I remember there was one. possibly Xach linked it from his blog a few months ago? 21:01:01 has probably a lot to do with the fact that they are intended for people who know their web stuff 21:01:09 antifuchs: oh? 21:01:31 true, i killed my rss reader so i don't see this kind of thing anymore 21:01:38 I think the best way to understand Hunchentoot is to look at the example code that comes with it, the documentation, and possibly the source code. 21:01:48 That's not ideal, of course. 21:01:51 austinh: sounds like a plan 21:02:29 But, at least with the example code you can be up and running immediately and start building off of that. 21:03:09 I haven't tried the newer version of Hunchentoot (if that's been released, yet). 21:03:44 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-13-242.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:04:09 i got mine with quicklisp 21:04:41 ok, I think i understand the basics now. 21:05:37 Yeah, that's what I use, too. I think H4ns was doing a big overhaul to it, and that lives in another repo, but it hasn't been released, yet. 21:05:58 kewl 21:06:32 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl13-200-223.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 21:07:35 austinh: how many dispatchers do you typically have in hunchentoot:*dispatch-table*? 21:09:25 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:10:16 manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-87-79-153-251.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 21:10:16 am i right to guess that hunchentoot is better run behind a caching proxy? 21:10:23 prxq: As many as necessary, I guess. 21:10:47 prxq: For some things, I have dispatchers within dispatchers. It's nice that it's flexible like that. 21:10:51 http://ryepup.unwashedmeme.com/blog/2011/06/18/getting-started-with-hunchentoot-and-talcl-websites/ 21:11:03 ZabaQ: thanks! 21:11:28 Hey, Hunchentoot has a logo :-) 21:11:32 austinh: nested dispatchers? How do you do that? 21:11:34 Just discovered that.. 21:12:00 prxq: Look at the code for dispatchers; they're fairly simple. 21:14:13 Or use the define-easy-handler to automatically enter a handler in the dispatch table when you define it. 21:14:15 Fade: what cl-zmq version do you use ? 21:14:17 oops 21:14:28 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [gkeith@nat/google/x-qzcesqzvsfsfthue] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:15:27 austinh: you said you had dispatchers within dispatchers. So I preusme you have additional dispatch tables? 21:15:41 -!- esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has quit [Excess Flood] 21:15:49 esden [~esden@repl.esden.net] has joined #lisp 21:16:26 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:16:31 prxq: I don't recall exactly how I set it up, but from what I can remember, the dispatch table is just a list of functions to try. If a function returns nil, it tries the next one. Something like that. 21:16:52 So, you can arbitrarily nest it however you want, as long as you follow those semantics. 21:17:20 ok i see 21:20:16 good night 21:20:19 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-590c299a.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:21:02 xan_ [~xan@8.Red-83-39-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:22:32 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-121.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:24:54 Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-155.wireless.sfu.ca] has joined #lisp 21:25:46 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:01 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:27:09 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:13 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:27:23 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:27:25 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:29:28 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:29:55 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-170-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:24 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:35:55 in asdf, how can I make a system depends on a minimal version of another system ? 21:36:28 -!- xan_ [~xan@8.Red-83-39-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:36:56 in the asdf grammar, it seems the system list can only contains 'simple-component-name' which are strings or symbols 21:41:18 ok, (:version :system "version") did the trick 21:42:03 -!- dlowe [dlowe@nat/google/x-fjdbyrhjejjcsgad] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:42:23 xan_ [~xan@8.Red-83-39-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:51 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:03 -!- tcr [~tcr@host46-2.natpool.mwn.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:50:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: sleep] 21:52:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:56:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:57:53 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:58:12 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 21:59:54 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483CC35.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:00:03 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04E4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 22:00:38 not sure if this is the right channel to ask in but are there any good C or C++ libraries for parsing S-expressions? 22:00:44 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 22:00:53 ..although that'd be pretty trivial to write, come to think of it. 22:02:25 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:02:28 haha 22:02:34 isn't lisp trivial ;-) 22:02:37 -!- daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:04:10 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483CC35.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:05:29 Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:07:41 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 22:07:56 -!- luis` is now known as luis 22:08:00 -!- sprayzor [~user@213.37.73.151.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:08:17 sirmacik [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has joined #lisp 22:08:17 -!- sirmacik [sirmacik@darkserver.it] has quit [Changing host] 22:08:17 sirmacik [sirmacik@unaffiliated/sirmacik] has joined #lisp 22:11:21 daimrod [~daimrod@sbrk.org] has joined #lisp 22:11:39 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-176-101.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:21 ZabaQ: there's a "safe" variant of S-expr that has library support easily extracted from few projects (cause it's used in PKCS) 22:13:00 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:13:15 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.69.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:15:27 i've always heard that multi-dimensional arrays are slow in lisp. i don't really know why they ought to be so much slower than regular arrays. would it be advised to create 3 separate arrays, versus the use of one multi-dimensional array, given that there are only fixnums in the arrays? 22:15:47 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:16:03 has any decent testing been done on this issue, or have i been hit by FUD? 22:16:16 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:16:44 Are you seeing performance issues around multi-dimensional arrays? 22:16:51 you could compare the 1D-ARRAYS and 2D-ARRAYS tests at http://sbcl.boinkor.net/boinkmarks/index (: 22:17:04 no idea if they do anything remotely comparable - check the code 22:17:07 *|3b|* would say 'slower' rather than 'slow', whether it matters for a particular application/implementation would require benchmarks 22:17:26 austinh: i haven't benchmarked myself. so yes, i'm thinkingering about premature optimizations :) 22:17:38 |3b|: it's that, that i was wondering about 22:17:39 -!- SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:17:57 antifuchs: awesome btw, i hadn't thought of that 22:18:47 paul0 [~paul0@189.26.133.208.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 22:18:52 anyway - I guess with vectors you have the chance to do a few optimizations you can't easily do with multi-dimensional arrays 22:18:58 <|3b|> from what i understand, opticl uses multi-dimensional arrays, and considers performance acceptable 22:20:33 |3b|: and they apparently aimed for high performance. 22:20:55 that seems to be enough to remove the FUD i had and wait for benchmarking in the future. thanks! 22:20:55 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: gone] 22:22:26 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:22:48 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-87-79-153-251.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 22:29:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:30:43 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:30:52 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:31:12 thanks to slime-end-of-list and some ugly code, repeated M-RET now takes me to the proper place after the current list 22:31:19 i'm actually surprised slime doesn't have this, or i missed it 22:40:13 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:41:29 -!- tsuru` [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:41:52 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:42:28 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:47:06 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:49:59 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:51:55 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:59:56 bhyde [~bhyde@c-66-30-201-212.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:00:36 -!- xan_ [~xan@8.Red-83-39-43.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:02:56 Hello Dragons! 23:05:52 *madnificent* spits fire 23:05:59 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:07:18 I have a question about sb-ext:define-hash-table-test -- what would it mean if the hash-sum return from the hash-function were larger than the machines bit-size 23:07:41 -!- Ralith [~ralith@d142-058-093-155.wireless.sfu.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:09:22 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:10:56 IOW, AFAICT SBCL's sxhash on my 32bit box is always a 29bit integer so i am assuming that the return value of any custom hash-function should have similar bounds. 23:14:11 tsuru [~charlie@50.9.237.217] has joined #lisp 23:14:19 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:15:47 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-52-56.access.telenet.be] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:16:41 SO, SORRY!!!! its right there in the spec 23:17:45 hash-code -- a non-negative fixnum 23:18:48 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Quit: bye] 23:19:02 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:15 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 23:22:13 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:25:37 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:32:26 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-51-236.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 23:35:30 oudeis 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