00:01:13 Here's a concrete area where I make heavy usage of multiple values: https://plus.google.com/107153306645225540547/posts/iRUPQrusm6t#107153306645225540547/posts/iRUPQrusm6t 00:02:28 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 00:02:33 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:03:17 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 00:03:30 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 00:03:35 best url ever 00:04:00 I like the profile picture 00:04:17 Xach: Still better than an informatigo URL ;P 00:05:15 multiple-values always seemed like a no-brainer to me. It always annoyed me in C having to use pointers when the underlying ABI allows multiple returns via registers 00:05:21 TDT: Yeah, I guess I should update it, that was taken with my crappy mac webcam about 13 years ago. I don't have a more recent digitized photo of me. I guess I should try to hook up my super old vintage scanner... 00:06:02 That would prove to be an interesting picture..be sure to not push straight into the glass, but kinda lay your headyou'd get a better picture that way. 00:06:28 Not that I have any experience scanning my face on a flatbed (or any scanner)... 00:06:31 TDT: Hah, I meant scanning a photo, of course. 00:07:02 jasom: you can return structs in C. 00:09:52 Hexstream: Of course..I knew that *looks around suspiciously* 00:14:01 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:15:05 pkhuong: yeah, and then you look at the code generated and cry 00:17:27 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:18:41 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 00:20:30 Hexstream: iterators are a big nono! 00:20:31 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 00:21:22 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 00:21:51 drdo: Well, I do believe all existing iterator implementations get things in the range of "quite wrong" to "thoroughly broken". 00:22:12 Hexstream: The problem is that the very concept of iterator is broken 00:22:25 Java's probably one of the worst. And I was mildly impressed with what C++ pulled off despite the type B&D. 00:23:06 drdo: Anything is "broken" if you misuse it... 00:23:30 If iterators are "broken", manual loops are only worse ;P 00:23:46 manual loops are bad as well 00:23:58 drdo: What's not bad to you then? 00:24:10 Mapping functions? 00:24:12 good old map 00:24:21 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:24:38 Good old map has very significant limitations. Foremost, you can't "interleave" iterations. 00:24:39 and fold 00:24:55 Hexstream: What do you mean by interleave? 00:25:06 My iterators concept does include and make heavy use of the concept of "map" and "fold" (or rather, "reduce") 00:25:28 Hexstream: the obvious problem with iterators is the mutable state 00:26:01 What do you mean by "interleave" anyway? 00:26:26 drdo: Well, a schemer would say the obvious problem with iteration is the mutable state. So they advocate recursion, which tends to spread the state all over the place. Iterators cluster the state all in one place. 00:26:35 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:26:43 Hexstream: you don't need state at all 00:26:53 drdo: You might like to try Haskell. 00:27:13 Hexstream: I have, i'm playing with agda right now 00:27:16 Euthydemus` [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 00:27:16 You don't need state up until the point where you need it. 00:27:25 yes 00:27:37 and you should only use it in such cases 00:27:45 and that is not one of them 00:28:15 having mutable state breaks all sorts of things 00:28:26 drdo: I know all that. 00:29:54 -!- Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:34:37 tic_ [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:34:46 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 00:35:20 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:35:20 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:35:20 -!- ve [~a@vortis.xen.tardis.ed.ac.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 00:35:22 ve_ [~a@193.62.81.27] has joined #lisp 00:35:37 -!- ve_ is now known as ve 00:36:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:36:36 Spring-heeled [~Spring-he@70.sub-75-251-187.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 00:38:07 Hexstream: good point. 00:39:38 -!- Spring-heeled is now known as SpringheeledJake 00:42:19 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-109-5.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:43:02 Ralith: What point? 00:43:22 12:53:17 < Hexstream> Ralith: You were looking for a portable way to finalize-inheritance. A portable and fairly reliable and efficient way would be to call ALLOCATE-INSTANCE on the class. 00:47:29 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2267E.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:49:59 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:51:14 I'm still stuck on euler problem #2, here is my code: https://gist.github.com/1202318 00:51:59 my terminating clause used to be wrong (the first 4 million fibs instead of all fibs below 4 million) but I'm still getting the wrong number 00:52:26 I'm pretty sure this is more me being bad at math than at cl, but I'm not sure 00:53:25 <|3b|> are you sure the sequence starts with 1,2 and not 1,1 ? 00:53:55 <|3b|> (or 0,1, but that shouldn't affect the sum) 00:57:07 not at all, thank you very much for point that out. 00:57:36 drdo: (process '(a nil 8 b c nil d 20 nil 30 e f 10)) => ((A 0 0 0) (B 1 3 2) (C 2 4 3) (D 3 6 4) (E 4 10 7) (F 5 11 8)), (-8 -20 -30 -10), ((1 SYMBOL A) (1 NUMBER 8) (3 SYMBOL B C D) (2 NUMBER 20 30) (2 SYMBOL E F) (1 NUMBER 10)), "8 + 20 = 28; + 30 = 58; + 10 = 68." How would you implement PROCESS? 00:57:36 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:58:05 Hexstream: describe what it is it must do, easier than trying to reverse engineer that :P 00:59:39 Evanescence [~Evanescen@122.237.0.21] has joined #lisp 01:00:01 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 01:01:11 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 01:01:22 The first value is a list of (non-nil-symbol, position-among-peers, original-position-including-nils, original-position-excluding-nils), the second all the numbers with #'- mapped over them, the third value is a list of (how-many-of-this-type-in-a-row what-type . items), last value is a description of the running sum of numbers in string form. 01:02:19 I haven't implemented the functionality needed to do this yet, but I know that with iterators this will be a breeze and I can do everything in one pass. Also worth nothing that I can process infinite "streams" like this... 01:03:20 And that's just scratching the surface of the absurd complexity this scheme can handle easily. 01:04:25 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-109-5.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:04:53 What on earth are you doing? 01:04:56 I'm developing a sort of comprehensive theory of iterators that should be able to handle close to 100% of looping scenarios. 01:05:58 drdo: Mad science! Well, btw that example was kinda academic and synthetic, sorry about that. But the mechanics are pretty interesting and it applies well to pretty much any looping scenario you can (or can't!) imagine. 01:06:31 -!- dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:07:40 I might make a blogpost describing the mental model I'm developing. This is wild stuff. There are some interesting open questions still but I think I made good progress already. Now I should think less and implement more ;) 01:07:47 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 01:08:04 Hexstream: That just breaks down with parallelism 01:10:03 drdo: And LOOP doesn't? Actually my iterators stuff is nicely statically analysable and thus eminently optimizable, even across function boundaries. I think it could handle parallelisation nicely in a lot of cases, if you're careful about not using features that would prevent it. 01:10:22 Hexstream: loop is bad 01:11:17 All iteration macros are bad when used as a "primitive". 01:12:38 And mapping functions, though I love them when they're suitable, really suck at composability because they're usually "single-purpose". 01:14:21 Hexstream: the real problem in that example is that that representation is absolutely fucked up 01:16:10 -!- tarmil`` [~user@109.74.51.29] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:16:37 drdo: It's a synthetic example of the real-world "I have a bunch of stuff coming at me via a pipe and I need to classify/organize/count/quantify/transform it and dispatch it to multiple different destinations". 01:17:18 Hexstream: so you build a system that lets you compose stream processors in a nice way 01:17:49 Actually "I have a bunch of stuff coming at me via multiple pipes", in general. 01:18:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:19:44 drdo: Yeah, but not just that. Actually there are a lot of multiple mutually-incompatible concepts in the mental toolbox of concepts/patterns I'm developing. You have to pick the right subset of features you need specific to each scenario while avoiding the features that will get in the way. 01:19:53 Hexstream: You might want to take a look at this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Functional_reactive_programming 01:19:57 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:20:11 drdo: Right, I'm a fan of dataflow. 01:22:53 -!- TDT [~TDT@50-82-32-225.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:24:12 in emacs, C-w is supposed to backwards kill a word, correct? 01:24:22 sherkund: wrong. 01:25:04 what does it do? also, what's the emacs command for finding out what a keybinding does execute? 01:25:13 C-h k 01:25:30 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:25:40 sherkund: C-w kills a region of marked text 01:26:04 drdo: There are tons of interesting combinators. For instance: (A B C) => (A B C A B C A B ...) (repeat), (A B C D E F G H) => (D E F) (subseq), (A B C D) => (A B C D C B A B C D C ...) ("rebound"?) And you can combine them: (A B C D) => (C D C B A B) (rebound + subseq) Anyway, guess I'll have to write that blogpost sometime. 01:29:10 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.117] has joined #lisp 01:29:16 thank you 01:30:10 sherkund: I usually C- 01:30:19 sherkund: C-h C-h to get a helpful list of all help commands. 01:32:41 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:04 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:33:33 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 01:33:59 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 01:34:39 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has joined #lisp 01:35:13 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 01:35:13 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:46 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC8DD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:16 codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:34 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-98-227-187-219.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 01:38:33 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 01:39:11 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9EA2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:39:57 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:43:07 is asdf:system-relative-pathname reliable? 01:43:26 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:44:24 -!- rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:45:24 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 01:46:53 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 01:47:14 -!- poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has left #lisp 01:48:17 -!- zardoz8 [~zardoz8@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 01:56:34 konr [~user@187.106.63.240] has joined #lisp 01:57:54 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: "th-th-th-that's all, folks!" 1907] 01:59:38 wolf__ [~wolf@112.3.255.19] has joined #lisp 02:00:56 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:02:30 poet [~poet@unaffiliated/poet] has joined #lisp 02:04:36 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 02:04:53 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 02:05:09 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:09:41 seangrove [~user@c-24-6-209-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:09:50 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:10:54 -!- ZAZEN_compute [~hoge@ntszok050114.szok.nt.adsl.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 02:10:54 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:10:56 pnq [~nick@ACA207C8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:13:48 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 02:14:46 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has joined #lisp 02:26:56 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:40 gko [~gko@110-28-150-146.adsl.fetnet.net] has joined #lisp 02:30:59 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:39:01 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-18-31.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:39:51 Inparable [u3628@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hqeigjdayavokzey] has joined #lisp 02:40:02 TIRED OF NIGGERS? SICK OF THEIR MONKEYSHINES? 02:40:04 WE ARE TOO! 02:40:09 JOIN CHIMPOUT FORUM! 02:40:14 HTTP://WWW.CHIMPOUT.COM/FORUM 02:40:20 AT CHIMPOUT WE ARE NOT WHITE SUPREMACISTS! 02:40:24 I MYSELF AM A MEXICAN! 02:40:36 BASICALLY, IF YOU ARE NOT A NIGGER AND YOU HATE NIGGERS, WE WELCOME YOU WITH OPEN ARMS! 02:40:40 JOIN CHIMPOUT FORUM TODAY! 02:40:44 HTTP://WWW.CHIMPOUT.COM/FORUM 02:41:39 combat_wombat27 [u2227@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-zjgizrwobwcggvtb] has joined #lisp 02:42:03 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:44:52 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:40 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:52 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:46:57 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:47:08 -!- Inparable [u3628@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-hqeigjdayavokzey] has quit [K-Lined] 02:47:14 Inparable [u3628@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdrfhydayxcvsqpb] has joined #lisp 02:47:43 -!- Inparable [u3628@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-mdrfhydayxcvsqpb] has left #lisp 02:49:23 Is this wrong (SBCL) (constantp 'x) => NIL? 02:49:52 "* quote forms are always considered constant forms and must be recognized as such by constantp. " 02:50:05 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.18.250.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 02:50:16 I think the constantp entry in CLHS specifically says that should be nil, actually 02:50:19 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 02:50:44 hmm you're right 02:51:37 If I'm not mistaken, by "quote forms" it means forms with an actual usage of QUOTE, which is why (constantp ''x), which is of course (constantp (quote (quote x))), is true. 02:51:38 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:54:38 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 02:55:23 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A4829.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:08:00 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 03:11:59 any CXML users around? 03:13:10 trying to write a catalog for it that it will handle, but it doesn't seem to like me using filesystem paths as rewrite prefixes... 03:13:54 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 03:21:12 -!- NeoNoir [~ircchatte@79.142.224.133.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:22:01 ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:22:02 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:06 ArchMonkey__ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:54 ArchMonkey___ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:23:59 daniel [~daniel@p5B326BB5.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:24:00 LiamH: what (constantp form) says, is whether (eval form) would always return the same result. 03:24:29 pjb: OK 03:25:21 (defvar *x* 42) (let ((form '*x*)) (list (constantp form) (eval form) (progn (incf *x*) (eval form)))) --> (nil 42 43) 03:25:34 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:25:34 -!- ArchMonkey___ is now known as ArchMonkey 03:26:08 -!- daniel__1 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[~wolf@114.222.250.246] has quit [Quit: ] 05:17:36 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:19:04 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:20:00 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 05:20:57 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@91.sub-75-224-28.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:21:11 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:23:55 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:25:50 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:17 could someone please help me understand this error?: https://gist.github.com/1202697 05:26:52 oops never mind, just realized it's an unbalanced paren 05:30:24 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-biysasdrboyhcqeo] has joined #lisp 05:33:44 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 05:33:52 Spring-heeled [~Spring-he@3.sub-75-253-2.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 05:34:33 -!- SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@91.sub-75-224-28.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:34:46 eli [~eli@winooski.ccs.neu.edu] has joined #lisp 05:35:01 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 05:44:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:44:27 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 05:51:37 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-68-173-18-31.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 05:52:30 could someone help me understand what is going on in this code: https://gist.github.com/1202727 05:53:16 it seems like a return clause I have is not getting triggered, and I don't understand how (other identical if statements are working fine) 05:53:57 specifically, the x-value decreases below 900, which doesn't make any sense, since the y-value is being reset 05:53:59 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 05:54:53 -!- Spring-heeled [~Spring-he@3.sub-75-253-2.myvzw.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:58:22 sherkund: Looks like y continually drops to 900, then x drops by one, and then y resets to 999 and the process repeats. 05:58:30 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:02:05 sherkund: Which is what's supposed to happen, isn't it? Anyway, your code breaks on (110, 908) since 110*908=99880, which has five digits, not six, which breaks your palindrome check (since 5/2 isn't a valid array index). 06:02:09 but shouldn't my (if (eql x 900) max) cause it to terminate? 06:03:53 *pinterface* suspects sherkund really wants cond. 06:04:24 pinterface: thanks, I'll look into that. 06:04:42 Bike: also thank you for pointing out that edge case 06:04:55 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:07:14 Oh, I know. 06:07:54 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 06:07:55 The (if (eql x 900) max) isn't the end of the function, sherkund, execution continues to the pal-check. 06:10:21 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Client Quit] 06:12:38 SpringheeledJake [~Spring-he@156.sub-75-203-126.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 06:14:09 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:14:13 sherkund: So yeah, switch to cond. 06:16:14 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 06:16:38 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ...] 06:17:20 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has joined #lisp 06:17:45 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-25-7.as13285.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 06:20:16 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:13 anonchik [~anonymous@88.80.28.189] has joined #lisp 06:21:19 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-238-8.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:24 manuel_ [~manuel_@p579217A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:21:46 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:25:10 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 06:26:04 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-oxefzenbsaqcatbg] has joined #lisp 06:26:06 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-238-8.as43234.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 06:31:15 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:37:10 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:37:24 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 06:37:27 good morning 06:39:50 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 06:41:05 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 06:43:47 aliao [~user@123.9.199.5] has joined #lisp 06:43:48 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:49:23 ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 06:49:39 p_l|backup: ping? 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08:07:46 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 08:07:51 shaggy-: perhaps better use :default instead of 'default? 08:08:27 perhaps use ((expression &key (test 'equal)) &body body) ? 08:09:37 you can match &key and &body like that? 08:09:50 btw why :default over 'default? 08:10:29 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 08:11:28 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 08:11:31 shaggy-: the users of your macro will have to use the symbol default from your package (import, or package qualify it) 08:12:38 shaggy-: instead of EQUAL you could use STRING= 08:12:56 shaggy-: and, btw, why are you using EQUAL and not EQ (or EQL)? 08:13:27 so that it works with strings 08:13:49 oh you mean for symbol comparison? 08:13:56 shaggy-: i mean equal in (equal label 'default) 08:16:06 is there a reason to prefer eq or eql over equal there? all three will work 08:17:12 i usually just use equal by default, not sure if that's considered a bad style 08:18:15 shaggy-: I have no idea whether it's bad style but for moral support: i usually default to EQUAL as well. 08:18:23 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:18:59 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has joined #lisp 08:27:12 cnl [~cnl@95.106.23.14] has joined #lisp 08:35:41 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:39:51 oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-0-238.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 08:40:04 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1581.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 08:41:10 nefo [~nefo@61.184.206.218] has joined #lisp 08:41:10 -!- nefo [~nefo@61.184.206.218] has quit [Changing host] 08:41:10 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 08:42:37 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 08:47:29 -!- mtd [~martin@67.207.131.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:48:00 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 08:48:04 -!- Yuuhi` [~user@p4FC9522D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:49:18 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:49:54 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 08:56:54 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:00:08 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:01:29 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-14-16.w92-149.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:04:00 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:04:45 Is there any reason to expect that adding interval support to local-time would be nontrivial? 09:07:06 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:07:22 I've got a feeling I'm not using CLSQL correct through Slime. I've got defuns with forms like (clsql-sys:select [*] :from...) which work fine after the initial load but when I reevaluate them I get "undefined variable: [*]" warnings. I do (clsql-sys:locally-enable-sql-reader-syntax) in the source but perhaps that's not enough? 09:08:25 dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has joined #lisp 09:09:01 aerique: there should be another function to enable the sql reader syntax, which you should do in your relp 09:09:05 repl even 09:09:31 ah, I might have missed that. i'll have a look 09:09:56 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 09:10:46 the function is clsql:enable-sql-reader-syntax, but i'm not sure which one is the right one to use in repl 09:10:53 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 09:11:09 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:11:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 09:12:03 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-167-197.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:12:03 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f765845.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:08 Good morning! 09:12:12 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 09:12:36 aerique: and looks like in the source you should use file-enable-sql-reader-syntax 09:13:03 aerique: well, not should, but can 09:17:21 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-155-147.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:27 jdz: the combination of file-e-s-r-s in the source and e-s-q-r-s on the repl did it, thanks 09:17:56 no idea why I was using locally-e-s-r-s, probably working too much from examples 09:18:38 phax [~phax@5e0814d2.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 09:18:38 -!- phax [~phax@5e0814d2.bb.sky.com] has quit [Changing host] 09:18:38 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 09:19:03 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:10 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:21:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 09:23:49 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 09:24:17 jasom [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:27:38 ehu [~ehuels@109.32.150.81] has joined #lisp 09:28:50 -!- Axioplase is now known as Axioplase_ 09:30:54 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 09:33:35 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:40:10 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 09:42:07 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:46:17 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:47:45 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 09:49:43 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-0-238.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:50:05 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:57:12 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:57:12 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:57:50 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 09:58:43 msx [~msx@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 09:58:46 about the http://paste.lisp.org/display/124547 code, I can't use switch macro in a different package, getting "The variable DEFAULT is unbound." error. I guess that's what flip214 was talking about. should I use :default instead? ( if so how? just replacing 'default with :default doesn't work). or should I export default symbol? 09:59:16 -!- shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:00:51 -!- msx is now known as shaggy- 10:01:37 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 10:04:01 shaggy-: yes, :default is in the keyword package, while default is in the current package 10:04:33 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:05:33 if I use :default, then the user must type :default though? not sure I like that 10:07:12 shaggy-: if you don't like it, you'll have to export your 'default symbol 10:08:05 is that what iterate does for it's symbols? 10:08:11 shaggy-: yes. 10:08:49 your 'default is actually the "switch::default" there (or whatever package switch is is defined in) 10:09:11 you either need to export switch::default, so when otherpackage says default, its actually switch::default 10:10:00 or you can use :default instead, or you can use (equal (symbol-name default) "DEFAULT") 10:12:19 is it a good diea to export default and do (equal (symbol-name default) "DEFAULT") as well, so that the user can use either default or :default 10:12:19 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:27 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:13:53 hmm iterate doesn't allow that, though loop does 10:13:58 shaggy-: if i'd really want to add such a basic syntax addition, i'd use cl:otherwise instead of "default" 10:15:14 I just did this macro for fun and learning, if there was no cl:otherwise equivalent you could use how would you do it? 10:15:33 shaggy-: i'd export the 'default symbol 10:16:14 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 10:16:53 and then what if another package uses default symbol, and you need to use both in the same source? 10:17:30 shaggy-: then you'd need to cater for that in your defpackage. 10:17:33 well case is closer, except it does not evaluate label 10:18:08 *maxm* just uses cond, seems that sooner or later you will want to modify one of the conditions to be more complicated, and theni ts a bother to convert case to cond 10:18:12 shaggy-: that is one of the many fine points that exist when doing basic syntax additions. 10:18:17 maxm: +1 10:18:36 if there was a conflict like that you'd need to fully type one or the other? with package:default 10:19:04 shaggy-: yes. 10:19:42 either that or you can prefer one over the other with (shadowing-import-from :want-it-from-this-package :default) in your defpackage 10:20:12 *maxm* has to do it for several things, since it seems a right-of passage for every CL library to export ensure-list and when-let 10:20:18 oudeis [~oudeis@62.0.53.178] has joined #lisp 10:20:50 *H4ns* tends to avoid :import except for :cl and :alexandria 10:23:11 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:25 Kenjin 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ArchMonkey__ is now known as ArchMonkey 11:47:14 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:47:28 topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has joined #lisp 11:48:05 -!- ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:49:03 dwim [~dwim@239.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 11:49:18 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.57.150] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:50:31 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:51:05 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 11:51:31 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:54:21 killerstorm [~alex_mizr@195.225.156.93] has joined #lisp 12:01:30 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:02:20 hi 12:02:36 Repeated (asdf:oos 'asdf:load-op :foo) loads stuff again and again. Is that ok? 12:02:48 I think it should load system only once... 12:02:48 -!- gko [~gko@110-28-150-146.adsl.fetnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:04:25 killerstorm: it should. i guess :foo is broken or your system clock is off 12:06:16 does asdf:load-op play nicely with git? i think i remember having some weird trouble going on 12:06:35 -!- killerstorm [~alex_mizr@195.225.156.93] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:07:16 "play nicely with"? If you do things like rebases then I think file timestamps can change even if the content doesn't 12:07:35 or just checking out old branches or things like that 12:07:47 but i don't remember very well, it's been a year or so 12:08:42 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:10:09 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:11:39 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 12:13:41 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 12:14:36 killerstorm [~killersto@195.225.156.93] has joined #lisp 12:15:22 hmm, and is there a way to debug asdf loading process? 12:16:35 killerstorm: trace the ASDF package? 12:21:13 tracing whole package... that's an interesting idea 12:23:25 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:26:52 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:28:07 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:29:19 -!- dwim [~dwim@239.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:28 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.33] has joined #lisp 12:29:42 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 12:33:29 pnq [~nick@AC81B5D0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 12:36:41 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.104.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:36:49 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 12:37:11 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 12:37:16 does anybody know about csv printer and parser library that works? i tried the one from arnesi but that doesn't seem to work with multiline fields 12:39:39 *easyE* used opencsv via ABCL the other day. 12:39:54 Worked just fine. 12:41:25 easyE: that's java:-( i'm after pure lisp 12:41:35 You never have to toch the Java 12:41:44 (abcl-asdf:resolve-dependencies "net.sf.opencsv" "opencsv" "2.0") 12:41:57 Will load it into your image. 12:41:57 hlavaty: if it works with ABCL, it's quite likely it will work elsewhere 12:42:15 oh, wait, no, that is a Java library, nevermind 12:42:56 there seem to be fare-csv and cl-csv 12:43:04 there's https://github.com/bobbysmith007/cl-csv but I haven't personally used it. his blog post mentions other libraries. 12:43:18 by multiline fields do you mean something of the form "normal field, normal field, this\nis\na\nmultiline\nfield, normal field"? 12:43:19 hlavaty: right just found that one too http://www.cliki.net/Data%20formats 12:43:40 yeah that's the problem, everybody writes their own csv lib and none works properly :-D 12:43:49 time for one more! 12:44:12 that's what i'd like to avoid 12:44:23 hlavaty: Patches Welcome 12:44:36 knowing Fare, I would guess that his library should work 12:44:52 felideon: you are the author of cl-csv? 12:45:04 hlavaty: eh, no. re-read what i said above. 12:45:34 ah sorry 12:45:53 hlavaty: that's because CSV isn't a real standard :P 12:45:56 just mentioend it as (a) bobbysmith007 mentioend it in a blog post recently, (b) he seems to be still working on it as a i see recent commits 12:45:58 i'll just try the two and see what happens then 12:46:00 it's not like there's really any 'properly' 12:47:13 i know, by properly i mean that it does something along the lines of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comma-separated_values and works with excel etc 12:47:30 thanks for ideas 12:48:41 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 12:55:36 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 13:01:47 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:02:35 -!- Yuuhi [~user@p4FC9522D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:04:17 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:06:42 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:08:43 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:08:52 -!- 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[~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 13:49:37 -!- AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:50:03 silenius [~silenius@p4FFC99E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:50:17 -!- wolf__ [~wolf@180.109.156.30] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:51:31 AntiSpamMeta [~MetaBot@unaffiliated/afterdeath/bot/antispambot] has joined #lisp 13:51:58 *sellout* wonders why ECLM's registration is low this year  seems like a great speaker lineup to me. 13:52:24 sellout: els ate some of the lisp conference budgets 13:53:09 Oh yeah, I was at that one  13:53:12 sellout: also, lisp does not seem to be particularily on the rise right now. too many other, more popular dynamic languages around. 13:53:18 hlavaty: cl-csv generates and reads csv files as produced by excel 13:53:39 For me, I was considering SPLASH/ICFP instead, but maybe I'll go to ECLM. 13:53:40 hlavaty: it also has test that it supports international characters and quoted fields with new lines in them 13:54:16 I feel ECLM is also fairly expensive 13:54:45 sellout: have you been at icfp? 13:55:19 H4ns: Nope  only been to SPLASH at all when it was with the Lisp 50th anniversary. 13:55:31 In Nashville. 13:55:36 75 for the talks is OK, but the extras add up quickly. (Compare with 120 for a two-day programme including lunches and a conference banquet) 13:55:47 I'll probably end up going, though 13:56:18 sellout: i have been at icfp and found myself to be rather alienated :) 13:56:31 Well, last ECLM I went to, I ended up spending three days with Luke, so it was pretty worthwhile ;) 13:58:12 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 13:58:21 H4ns: Because other languages dominate it, or just not a warm crowd? 13:58:42 TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:59:05 sellout: the crowd was warm and funny, but i just could not get why everyone was laughing whenever the word "monad" was used. 13:59:10 sykopomp: I may have a few bug reports for chanl. Getting the job done well, I really like this library 13:59:15 Tonight I'm headed to my third Ruby event since moving to Boulder a few weeks ago, so I'm getting some practice at blending ;) 13:59:23 sellout: i mean, i had expected that everybody grasped the concept, but it did not seem like it. 13:59:58 bobbysmith007: hi & thanks a lot, cl-csv seems to be working well, so far i havent found an issue. The only thing i dont like is the iterate dependency, it warns that it doesnt understand some allegro specific form 14:00:03 I haven't done Ruby in a long time..heh. I wonder if the community started to chill out a little. 14:00:33 i stopped doing ruby recently because it seemed to be going nowhere 14:00:40 lots of cruft in the libraries 14:00:55 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:00:57 oGMo: Are _you_ heading to SPLASH? 14:00:57 hlavaty: hmmm... thats odd... If you track down what it is, I am willing to patch around it. Are you in modern mode (case-sensitive)? 14:01:20 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:01:29 manuel_ [~manuel_@p579217A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:01:52 bobbysmith007: i have no idea 14:01:52 sellout: nah .. too much to do, too little time .. maybe next year though 14:02:18 My issue with ruby came down to the community. Mostly coworkers I had who felt ruby was god's gift to the world..there's being excited about a language, then being domaticand some really went over that line. 14:02:49 TDT: patches welcome! 14:03:10 bobbysmith007: i dont think it's cl-csv issue, more like iterate issue 14:03:11 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:03:54 hlavaty: I use iterate everywhere, if it has problems on one of the major lisp implementations, that would be a touch disappointing 14:03:58 sykopomp: hah yeah..some of these not sure how I'd fix it..it's very odd. One time I was doing a loop (23 iterations) scheduling the task. Some tasks got duplicated, some never got submitted as a result. It was really odd. I put a (sleep 1) inbetween the schedules and it worked fine. 14:04:21 -!- Evanescence [~Evanescen@122.237.0.21] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:04:25 TDT: ruby makes things really easy to express .. useful for a lot of people for a lot of things 14:05:19 TDT: my problem is the language changes too much, breaks stuff all the time, and only the most popular stuff gets maintained 14:05:39 sykopomp: Another thing I ran into was pulling a subset of a hash (as a hash) within the pexec call, e.g. (pexec (:name "foo") (my-function (call-suset-stuff *variable*))), and the call-subset would be executed, but part of the hash wasn't there..e.g. values and empty hash values. Calling it the same way without pexec would work. I'll try to duplicate these in better-written code and show you. 14:06:04 it's nice to be able to grab lisp code from 5+ years ago and have it run unchanged 14:06:26 oGMo: from 50 years ago and have it run unchanged, you mean. 14:06:39 pjb: well, i don't have any of that ;) 14:06:43 http://www.informatimago.com/develop/lisp/small-cl-pgms/wang.html 14:06:55 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:03 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:15 hlavaty: is CL-USER in your repl uppercase or lowercase 14:07:32 oGMo: Yeah, I'll be honest - the language itself I find sexy..ruby is a very "beautiful" language of sorts, I just couldn't handl ethe community. For me, as strange as it sounds, the community means a lot to meand picked up lisp honestly because people in this room were very helpful when I first started. 14:07:53 -!- freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has quit [Client Quit] 14:07:53 hlavaty: if you were in modern mode, cl-user would be lowercase in the REPL. 14:08:06 passion without edging to the dogmatic route of things, that is :) 14:08:22 pjb: small.wangnot sure I want to click on that link 14:08:40 TDT: go ahead, it's work-safe. 14:09:20 freiksenet [~freiksene@freiksenet.com] has joined #lisp 14:09:40 TDT: when i started ruby, it was still around the latter days of 1.6, and i found the community fairly laid back compared to perl/python, though not without quirks .. these days though .. yeah 14:10:07 oGMo: Yeahmost of the issues I had were the people local, coworkers if you will. 14:10:12 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81B5D0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:10:23 bobbysmith007: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124555 apparently somebody wrote a patch for iterate some time ago but no idea where it ended 14:10:34 and ruby people tend to solve the easy problems nicely and you're SOL on the hard ones .. lisp people tend to solve the hard problems nicely and you're SOL on the easy ones ;) 14:10:52 the hard problems are more fun :) 14:10:56 felideon: upcase, so not modern 14:11:20 TDT: yeah .. and i have no problem solving easy stuff myself ;) 14:11:38 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177894263.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:13:46 I wish I was better at solving the harder stuffI need a good algorithms book to work through sometime 14:14:01 I heard "The Art of Computer Programming" or something like that..3 volumes I believe, is a good choice. 14:14:46 yeah, if you can read TeX source you should have no problem with taocp ;) 14:15:35 That hard of a book? 14:15:39 the art of computer programming is quite interesting and readable. 14:15:40 Or perhaps "Data structures and algorithms" from Aho and Hopcroft. 14:17:04 I may try diving into taocp first, just heard good things about it. expensive volume last I checked. 14:17:29 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:17:57 TDT: since it's been in print for a long time, used copies are pretty easy to find. 14:18:07 TDT: I think I spent $5 for "Sorting and Searching" 14:18:44 jtza8_ [~jtza8@41.56.29.229] has joined #lisp 14:19:14 heh nice .. i think i spent like $30? $50? on new, and this was awhile ago 14:20:41 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-113-108.wbs.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:22:08 otwieracz [~gonet9@v6.gen2.org] has joined #lisp 14:22:19 abebooks.com lists some copies under $5 14:22:22 (plus shipping) 14:22:32 interesting. is it really readable? 14:22:50 felideon: Do you find Common Lisp: The Language readable? 14:22:51 Not like a roman. It's not an algorithm catalog either. 14:22:58 felideon: you have to do the exercises. 14:23:05 It's more like a Math textbook. 14:23:13 TAoCP has playful prose and interesting tidbits. 14:23:40 I found CLRS pretty dry in comparison. 14:23:40 pjb: Heh, I just learned this summer in Croatia that "roman" = "novel" 14:23:48 Ah interesting. I don't know why I had the opposite idea, maybe online comments. 14:23:52 it's math heavy and my math isn't/wasn't strong enough for casual reading .. more like interesting study 14:23:57 felideon: you'll need to be able to read math notation, otherwise it is no fun. 14:24:23 Ah maybe that's why. 14:24:33 I'm finding Concrete Mathematics difficult too. 14:25:45 cltl just reads like a reference to me though .. i've read far more obtuse references, too 14:26:09 oGMo: it's loaded with humorous bits 14:26:26 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 14:26:32 indexing banana or something is hardly funny :) 14:26:38 pnq [~nick@ACA227CF.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:26:48 Xach: yeah, so is TeXbook .. i do enjoy knuth's style 14:27:09 Couldn't get get past the first five pages. 14:27:20 Will have to attempt to read it again 14:27:59 markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 14:28:00 I'm talking about CM, by thw way 14:28:18 Xach: nice, never heard of that siteonly really used amazon for this stuff 14:28:51 TDT: i've had good luck with both places. 14:30:01 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:30:13 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 14:30:19 Arafangion [~thescruta@220-244-108-23.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 14:30:38 nice could get all 3 (boxed set) for 43 plus free shipping 14:31:20 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:42 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 14:32:06 TDT: 4A is out too 14:33:33 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:35:41 -!- dbushenko [~dim@86.57.253.61] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 14:37:10 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:37:23 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:37:49 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:214:22ff:fe45:5204] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 14:38:49 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:50:57 I have a feeling it'll take awhile to get through the first 3just ordered the first 2, 14:51:01 stonesam [~Sam@94-193-157-85.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:51:23 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 14:51:45 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA227CF.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:52:02 idurand [527df483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.125.244.131] has joined #lisp 14:52:43 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:53:04 -!- stonesam [~Sam@94-193-157-85.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 14:53:31 -!- idurand [527df483@gateway/web/freenode/ip.82.125.244.131] has left #lisp 14:55:35 stonesam [~Sam@94-193-157-85.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 14:58:04 10 years ago, I never thought that Knuth's lifespan would be an issue with the completion of volume 4. Now I'm starting to wonder. 14:58:42 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:00:09 -!- markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:02:05 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 15:02:06 is it me not understanding how fork() work or something else .. 15:02:08 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124556 15:02:30 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:40 should this work ? 15:03:00 milanj: what do you expect to happen? 15:03:16 well, i'm not sure if child is closing stream or something like that 15:03:35 but there is no file after executing this 15:03:47 dlowe: there are 3 more volumes planed too... 15:04:44 -!- nowhereman is now known as nowhere_man 15:05:23 -!- jtza8_ is now known as jtza8 15:05:23 Xach, any thoughts on this ? 15:05:51 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:07:46 milanj: what do you expect to happen? 15:07:55 pjb: I can't imagine they're ever going to happen 15:08:10 tali713` [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:08:12 should file exist after this or no ? i expect it to exist but maybe my expectation is false 15:08:26 _8david` [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 15:08:43 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 15:08:57 luis` [~luis@nhop.r42.eu] has joined #lisp 15:09:06 milanj: sb-ext:quit runs unwind-protect cleanup forms. maybe that's the problem. 15:09:30 tarmil` [~user@109.74.51.29] has joined #lisp 15:09:41 _a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 15:09:45 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 15:09:48 guther_ [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-bxvizjqgwdijugct] has joined #lisp 15:10:09 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 15:10:48 borkman` [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 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15:25:47 -!- stonesam [~Sam@94-193-157-85.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Quit: stonesam] 15:26:24 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.32.150.81] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27:20 -!- xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:27:20 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.154.33] has quit [*.net *.split] 15:28:05 kloeri [~kloeri@freenode/staff/exherbo.kloeri] has joined #lisp 15:28:58 milanj: forking a multithreaded program is dangerous ... 15:29:28 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 15:29:37 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #lisp 15:30:00 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 15:30:24 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 15:30:53 dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-trgctlyskukqotse] has joined #lisp 15:31:57 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:03 reb, i know, sbcl does not allow to fork multithreaded actually 15:32:39 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 15:32:41 milanj: that't incorrect 15:32:50 reb: not necessarily true 15:34:23 fe[nl]ix, well, it does not allow to fork with sb-posix:fork if there is any threads beside initial one 15:34:56 to be precise 15:35:22 POSIX does specify the behaviour of forking a multithreaded process, though 15:35:48 the only restriction is «the child process may only execute async-signal-safe operations until such time as one of the exec functions is called.» 15:37:18 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tjndmxlpnedfwmlh] has joined #lisp 15:37:35 and only the thread that calls fork() is replicated in the new process 15:38:24 there's a lengthy discussion in http://pubs.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/000095399/functions/fork.html#tag_03_177_08 15:39:13 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:41:04 oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:17 ilmari: Unfortunately, I suspect it was too hard to get proper behaviour from what was essentially creating a common ground 15:41:36 schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has joined #lisp 15:41:49 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:46:48 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:48:00 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tjndmxlpnedfwmlh] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:48:38 billitch: ping 15:50:02 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:50:19 i have a string and an integer and i want to concanate them 15:50:19 together, any pointers on hoq i can accomplish that. i want the results 15:50:19 to be a string 15:50:28 how* 15:50:38 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 15:51:05 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-179-108.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 15:51:48 (format nil "~A~A" string number) 15:52:07 nicdev_: (concatenate 'string string (princ-to-string number)) 15:52:31 which might be more efficient or not, depending on *print-pretty* and other variables... 15:52:58 I think that format unwinds to princ-to-string in sbcl 15:55:06 pjb: thanks 15:55:08 (let ((*gensym-counter* number)) (symbol-name (gensym string))) 15:55:51 If for some reason concatenate and format are broken. 15:56:29 Krystof gets the clever|oblique award. :) 15:56:42 nicdev_: on the other hand, Krystof's answer should make you wonder what you are doing? 15:57:10 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:57:27 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 15:57:38 It might make you wonder what Krystof is doing, too. 15:58:02 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has joined #lisp 15:59:13 "doing" as in drugs, that is 15:59:43 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d87f465.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 16:00:10 easyE [nVfj5lOdlw@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 16:00:38 i have an integer and a string and i want to concanate them 16:01:22 mcstar: format can do that 16:01:29 *Xach* has reverse deja vu 16:01:44 Or concatenate, if you know how to convert an integer into a string. 16:01:46 *mcstar* wonders how Krystof solves that one 16:01:50 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 16:02:07 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 16:02:41 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:02:45 (let ((*gensym-counter* number)) (reverse (symbol-name (gensym (reverse string))))) 16:03:25 :) 16:04:10 stonesam [~Sam@94-193-157-85.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 16:04:47 Krystof: the number is reversed 16:04:55 unless it's single-digit 16:07:48 if it only we were printing in binary, then we could code that with a bit-reversal 16:08:49 -!- stonesam [~Sam@94-193-157-85.zone7.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:58 sprayzor [~user@213.37.73.151.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 16:10:24 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-179-108.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:13:20 -!- 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[~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:43:33 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@p579217A4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:43:33 Yuuhi [~user@p4FC95B0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:43:34 -!- manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 16:43:41 Is a size_t type included in CFFI? 16:44:09 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:44:27 jtza8: not according to http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Built_002dIn-Types.html#Built_002dIn-Types 16:47:36 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:47:59 I'll use :uint64 then, since no-one seems to be worried. 16:48:02 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:48:21 Thanks, ilmari. 16:49:14 ... actually, I guess it's :ullong 16:50:52 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 16:51:32 http://common-lisp.net/project/cffi/manual/html_node/Tutorial_002dCallbacks.html says "almost always unsigned int", but I'm not sure about that 16:52:31 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:52:50 grovel it? 16:52:55 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 16:53:01 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 16:53:51 ilmari: Nope, it's not really. 16:54:06 It's an unsigned long long on my 32bit system. 16:55:01 But yeah, it's not important enough to grovel for. 16:59:27 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:02:20 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:02:27 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:57 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:07:51 ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 17:10:37 jtza8: size_t should be groveled on unknown systems, but usually manuals should specify it... 17:11:53 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 17:12:49 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-ttuhqwiajpyvmyce] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:13:32 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:13:54 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has joined #lisp 17:14:49 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 17:19:38 -!- tali713` is now known as tali713 17:20:20 GeneralMaximus [~general@178.63.185.174] has joined #lisp 17:20:22 can I use a number in a function name? 17:20:25 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:22:16 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-179-108.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 17:22:20 if it contains any other chars then dot then yes 17:22:48 -!- benny [~benny@i577A2FA4.versanet.de] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.1] 17:23:27 unless it cleanly converts to a number that is... +123 is number 123, but ++123 is a symbol 17:23:53 maxm: thanks! 17:24:05 sherkund: you can use any symbol for a function name, and a symbol can have any string as its name. if you get fancy, you might have to escape certain parts of the symbol name when writing them. 17:25:38 ah yea I forgot you can use #:|any string| syntax to make symbol out of anything 17:25:54 so #:|123| would be a symbol with name "123" 17:25:55 \ is the single-escape character and | is the multiple-escape character. 17:26:06 maxm: the #: bit is unrelated 17:26:28 (defun || () 42) is a function named by a symbol with a symbol-name of "". 17:27:21 Xach: hmm, that's really cool, thank you for pointing that out 17:28:24 sherkund: it's a little awkward to write symbol names that require escapes, so unless it's for a special purpose, it might not be worth the trouble. 17:28:49 if you're generating them from some computation and don't have to type them or think about them much, that's not so bad. 17:29:09 ah yea doh #: make symbol without a package 17:29:19 *maxm* confused his esoteric subjects :-) 17:29:41 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 17:30:13 benny [~benny@i577A2FA4.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 17:30:19 -!- borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:31:15 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:31:49 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 17:32:01 homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:32:24 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-152-145.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:07 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.23.14] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:35:30 -!- kiooeht_ is now known as kiooeht 17:37:04 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 17:37:59 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 17:39:28 -!- rdd [~user@c83-250-153-128.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:39:50 marsell [~marsell@120.20.117.143] has joined #lisp 17:46:14 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 17:46:59 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:46:59 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:48:40 jdz [~jdz@host97-110-dynamic.8-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:49:30 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:50:25 a friend just pointed out http://www.mahdiyusuf.com/post/9947002105/most-pressed-keys-and-programming-syntaxes to me 17:50:37 very few dashes! that's definitely pg code (: 17:51:13 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:51:46 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:56 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:53:24 I seem to remember a similar study that prompted everyone to wonder what the actual keypresses were, e.g. those pressed on the keyboard rather than those that wound up in the output. 17:53:38 *Xach* thwaps self for e.g. when i.e. was meant 17:54:50 Euthydemus [~euthydemu@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 17:55:17 antifuchs: I saw that earlier. I was wondering about the hyphens 17:56:00 felideon: well, pg abbreviates stuffa lot (: 17:56:10 right 17:56:14 *maxm* uses word completion a vimpulses c-n / c-p (basically same as emacs dabbev) 17:56:43 I was wondering about the number of Es, but then if you have many def* forms, that's a lot of Es (: 17:57:07 antifuchs: No I think that's just English in general. 17:57:19 pnq [~nick@AC811308.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:57:46 felideon: then we'd be seeing similar distribution for T, A and potentially OIN 17:58:11 otoh, yeah, we are seeing that (: 17:59:57 :) 18:04:26 Anyone want a Lisp job? I may have a line on a couple. 18:04:39 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has joined #lisp 18:04:43 if it feels good 18:04:52 i don't have a degree (yet) :\ or actual experience that counts 18:04:54 mindCrime [~chatzilla@rrcs-70-62-112-146.midsouth.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:05:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-99-43-71.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 18:05:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-99-43-71.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 18:05:05 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 18:05:13 gigamonkey: does it require a visa of some sort? ;-) 18:05:24 gigamonkey: by "a line of a couple", do you mean contracts? 18:05:37 gigamonkey: is ITA^WGoogle hiring? :-) 18:05:44 *pinterface* might be interested, depending on the details. 18:06:00 s/of/on 18:06:03 samebchase: not that I'm aware of. 18:06:05 gigamonkey: you may as well have thrown a golden apple into the channel, geez. 18:06:09 :) 18:06:28 gigamonkey: where are they based? 18:06:31 It's definitely well-targeted to this group. :) 18:06:35 felideon: well, I know some folks who are looking for two contractors and one full time Lisper. I'm hoping to be one of the contractors. 18:06:40 Krystof: not that I'm aware of. 18:06:46 gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@nat/google/x-jqzldrjgpgqsfone] has joined #lisp 18:07:04 samebchase: U.S. but seems like it's going to be working remote anyway. 18:07:20 -!- silenius [~silenius@p4FFC99E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:07:52 Need experience with building producting apps using SBCL. 18:08:31 Experience with machine learning, ontology foo, and network security also good. 18:08:44 jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:09:07 how do you guys reset variables in a closure? 18:09:19 reset? 18:09:33 well, i initialized them once 18:09:54 and now i want them again to be initialized when i call another "main" function 18:09:55 mcstar: you cannot, if the closure doesn't have the code to do it. 18:09:58 (let ((table (make-hash-table))) (defun reset-lut () (clrhash table))) 18:10:02 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:05 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 18:10:08 xedeir [~user@ppp95-165-171-250.pppoe.spdop.ru] has joined #lisp 18:10:18 yeah, i would need to write reset-hooks, right? 18:10:20 HG` [~HG@p5DC05FFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:10:24 Yes. 18:10:36 gigamonkey: I am interested in knowing who that is: that profile fits fairly well with one of my lab's students 18:10:40 cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 18:10:53 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 18:10:58 is there a way to make the slime repl report errors with line numbers? 18:11:07 Krystof: ITA has a job posting on the google website 18:11:22 sherkund: Normally you would use the debugger to jump directly to the offending position in the source. 18:11:32 sherkund: the key is "v" when on a frame. 18:11:38 mcstar: might be a good idea *not* to use a closure for that, and instead go for a special. 18:14:31 out of curiousity, why does lisp have two categories of functions to assign values? one for standard values (strings, numbers, chars, floats) and one for functions? 18:14:44 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 18:15:14 *pinterface* sighs. Yet another job with basic requirements I don't meet. 18:15:17 anvandare: I don't understand what you mean. Can you give an example? 18:15:33 anvandare: setq versus setf? 18:15:42 well... you can do (setf foo "bar") ... but you have to do (defun foo () ()) 18:15:43 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:15:59 it just doesn't rhyme with functions being first-class objects if they need separate assigning functions 18:16:12 (setf (symbol-function 'fun) (lambda())) 18:16:17 hehe. 18:16:20 well yes, so why need a defun? :P 18:16:26 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 18:16:33 defun establishes a named block, for one. 18:16:42 ? 18:16:58 (return-from foo :bar) 18:17:04 ahh, i see 18:17:06 -!- xedeir [~user@ppp95-165-171-250.pppoe.spdop.ru] has left #lisp 18:17:10 can be done inside DEFUN, but not inside lambda 18:17:30 anvandare: we don't need defun, but it's convenient as hell. 18:17:36 (lambda () (block foo (return-from foo :bar))) 18:17:49 If you want only what you need, have this turing machine. 18:17:56 does return-from work inside labels? 18:18:05 oconnore: exactly, versus (defun foo () (recturn-from foo :bar)) 18:18:19 Fade: yes. 18:18:20 Fade: yes 18:18:24 thanks 18:20:00 pkhuong: with minimal change i kept my closure, i like them otherwise, theyre neat 18:20:54 pkhuong: ... and this infinite roll of paper tape. 18:21:00 Did anybody snag a copy of cl-sparsematrix before Tamas retired it? 18:21:44 I need to consider writing some sparse matrix code. Having an example in Lisp would certainly help my thinking. 18:23:05 easyE: GSLL may be of interest. 18:23:11 -!- sprayzor [~user@213.37.73.151.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:23:22 http://common-lisp.net/project/gsll/ 18:23:23 rdd [~rdd@c83-250-153-128.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 18:23:57 sherkund: why bother? Press v on the stack frame and it'll take you straight there. 18:24:28 oops, my buffer was scrolled back and I didn't notice someone already answered him. Sorry! 18:27:15 *easyE* quickloads GSLL. 18:27:34 I don't see any mention of sparse matrixes in the documentation, but I'll look at the source. 18:27:50 I know it does matrices 18:29:24 A bit different. For a matrix with 10^9 rows, you'll choke contemporary machine 18:29:29 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 18:29:32 Fade: a matrix isn't exactly a sparse matrix. 18:30:32 "choke a contemporary machine" just creating a matrix with all zeros. 18:30:39 aye 18:31:50 ysph [~user@131.204.27.195] has joined #lisp 18:32:00 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 18:32:06 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:35:11 -!- mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:36:54 is there already a project that provides drop-in persistent sessions for hunchentoot? 18:37:44 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 18:38:35 sykopomp: what do you mean by persistent? 18:39:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:39:46 oconnore: sessions that live in the database 18:39:58 hello, clos beginner question, say i use an after method for a (setf my-accessor), can i also have my after method apply to init args for that slot? 18:40:21 so if you restart your web app, anyone who was logged in before will still be logged in 18:40:23 or whatever 18:40:32 ysph: you can add methods to INITIALIZE-INSTANCE and related standard generic functions. 18:41:22 ysph: but just adding an after method to the SETF isn't going to do it automatically. 18:41:40 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has joined #lisp 18:41:54 sykipomp: wait, when I am in the *sldb ccl/11* buffer, and I hit v, it should take me to the error in my code? 18:42:24 sherkund: if you put your cursor on a frame, yes. 18:42:52 sherkund: on the stack frame 18:43:23 but it's taking me to nfcomp.lisp instead, what am I doing wrong? 18:43:28 it should work even for stack frames involving non-toplevel functions, even. :) 18:43:40 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:44:13 is that not where you expected to go? 18:44:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:45:06 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:13 Xach, gigamonkey, thanks i'm looking into initialize-instance 18:45:38 sykopomp: I don't know of anything that does it explicitly, but you could just use elephant or whatever to persist the hunchentoot::session objects. I think that's a 1 character change after you fix the package issues. 18:46:18 well I'm just trying to look at my broken code, not where ccl had trouble compiling my broken code 18:46:37 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC8DD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:46:48 H4ns [~user@p4FFC8DD6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:47:12 sherkund: try a different frame. 18:47:19 sherkund: Then move the cursor down to the first frame in the stack that is from your own code. 18:47:58 If I compile my code with (declaim (optimize debug)), the frames from my own code are usually green, which is convenient. 18:48:03 frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:12 well here is what I am looking at: http://i.imgur.com/VWFlm.png 18:49:50 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:49:59 it's just kind of hard for me to tell which of those frames I should be looking at 18:50:20 oconnore: I have some relatively standalone code that persists sessions to postgres and hooks them up to hunchentoot's cookie/session mechanism. I think I'll put it into its own project and toss it up on github. 18:50:31 sherkund: it's too late by then. you'll have to look at the transcript in the repl. 18:50:54 sherkund: And I think you might be able to get it to break into the debugger earlier, but I'm not sure exactly how on CCL. It's different in SBCL. 18:51:26 Hmm, or maybe not. 18:51:50 Setting *break-on-signals* might do it, or might not. 18:52:15 schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-028-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:28 -!- quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:52:33 quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 18:52:56 -!- topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 18:52:58 well here is my setup a moment before I get the error screen: http://i.imgur.com/DTtFB.png 18:53:08 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Quit: which was?] 18:54:08 TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:54:23 sherkund: That is not the correct syntax for LET. 18:54:43 It must be (let ((x (mod-zero-all2 ...))) ...) 18:55:44 also, t/nil vs 'T/'F 18:56:01 Is there a way to set *print-length* or whatever it is so the SLIME debugger won't truncate things in error messages. 18:58:26 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: AndroIRC - Android IRC Client ( http://www.androirc.com )] 18:59:08 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:20 Xach: thank you for pointing that out. However, I'm worried that I'm really not using slime correctly. Is there a tutorial on how to use slime for debugging? the official doc seems to be a reference for people that already know what they're doing 18:59:58 gffa [~gffa@5249FBAA.cm-4-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 19:00:11 sherkund: I'm not sure how you could use slime to jump right to that error. 19:00:39 -!- gffa [~gffa@5249FBAA.cm-4-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Changing host] 19:00:39 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 19:02:28 sherkund: If you were building up bit by bit and evaluating each expression one at a time, you'd probably have an easier time working your way through it. 19:02:45 xach: well, in general I'm pretty sure I'm mis/underusing it though. 19:03:08 sykopomp: cool. I just rewrote hunchentoot's session interface to grab session id's from /dev/random, and store the sha1 hash of those bytes. I wonder if my code will work with your library, and if Edi would accept a patch if I grabbed the random bytes through cl+ssl instead. 19:03:24 sherkund: I like to use quickproject to setup the template, then load it before I add any code, and then start adding one function at a time and compiling them as I go. 19:03:56 -!- McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:04:59 sherkund: that's possible. 19:05:29 sherkund: You would've seen that LET error as soon as you tried to compile find-num. 19:07:35 McMAGIC--Copy [~McMAGIC--@gateway/tor-sasl/mcmagic--copy] has joined #lisp 19:07:39 -!- sonnym1 [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:08:58 oconnore: (map-into (make-array 256 :element-type 'character) (curry #'random-elt *alphanumerics*)) wfm 19:11:45 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-158-117.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 19:13:16 austinh: what do you mean by "compiling them as I go"? 19:13:36 sherkund: You don't have to re-compile the whole source every time. 19:13:56 sherkund: You can compile one function at a time as you are writing it. This is one of the best things about using Slime. 19:14:27 And build up your project interactively. I believe most people do it this way. 19:15:36 If the cursor is within a defun, you can hit C-C C-c to compile that function. 19:18:26 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 19:18:27 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:18:38 sherkund: Does that make sense? 19:18:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has joined #lisp 19:19:21 austinh: thank you for that description of your development process. That seems like a very useful technique. 19:19:57 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 19:20:34 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:22:00 -!- schaueho [~schaueho@dslb-088-066-028-062.pools.arcor-ip.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:22:09 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 19:22:11 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 19:22:31 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:26:05 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 19:26:43 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-114-61.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:27:36 is there a slime shortcut that lets me clear anything after the prompt so that i can type something new? 19:28:45 C-c C-u, though i have it bound to C-u .. kills to the point 19:29:11 I just hit RET twice :) 19:29:16 heh 19:29:30 unles it's fairly easy to backward-sexp-kill 19:29:43 backward-kill-sexp* 19:30:02 oGMo: thats it thx 19:30:47 eh I guess RET twice doesnt always work 19:31:54 oGMo: hmm thanks, I didn't know about C-c C-u 19:32:16 *Xach* neither 19:32:48 jfletcher [jf@jamesfletcher.org] has joined #lisp 19:33:57 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:34:10 i use C-u for the same thing normally, when it didn't work i got annoyed and found the right function .. kill-line works normally though 19:36:38 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:36:39 -!- pnq [~nick@AC811308.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:37:07 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 19:37:14 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Client Quit] 19:39:35 ChibaPet [~mason@2001:430:ffff:667:924c:e5ff:fe67:db1c] has joined #lisp 19:39:47 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:40:21 -!- ysph [~user@131.204.27.195] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:41:28 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@2001:430:ffff:667:924c:e5ff:fe67:db1c] has left #lisp 19:45:43 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:46:12 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:47:48 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:48:05 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.213.117] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:49:28 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:49:44 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:50:16 mm.. linux's sparse looks like it'd make for a reasonable fully-automatic groveller. 19:50:42 sparse? 19:51:04 hm 19:51:49 I'd link to kernel.org, but... ;) it's a C front end used to drive static analyses on Linux. There's some work to actually emit code corresponding to the SSA form, but a quick look revealed a couple glaring bugs in that area. 19:52:02 the semantic parsing part itself looks solid. 19:52:59 yeah found a manpage .. not sure how much it actually parses/compiles from this though 19:54:32 all of the linux kernel. 19:54:49 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.178.87] has joined #lisp 19:57:15 rather, it parses/warns about semantics, but it doesn't appear to output anything else .. and how much is evaluated (preprocessor macros, enum values, etc) 19:58:17 it's too bad llvm or gcc don't just have cffi backends 19:58:31 hi. what system provides decoded time functions so i can display time in human readable format? 19:58:44 witout rolling my own 19:58:46 there's a preprocessor included. I don't know if you've looked at linux's source, but they love their cpp macros. 19:59:19 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:59:22 oudeis: I used local-time a long time ago. 19:59:31 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:59:32 oudeis: https://github.com/xach/format-time is what i often use 19:59:33 pjb: "19:36:30 LiamH: what (constantp form) says, is whether (eval form) would always return the same result." 19:59:35 thanks 19:59:43 Not exactly. What about (progn (print (random 10)) 'always-same-value)? That always returns the same result... You might want to review clhs CONSTANTP and glossary entry "constant form", and the concept of referential transparency. 19:59:48 oGMo: there's gcc-xml, and you can get quite a lot of data with careful choosing of options to gcc 20:00:24 p_l|backup: then again, the LOC on sparse is likely smaller than what you'd need to parse the xml ;) 20:00:26 p_l|backup: yeah, i was looking at verrazano a bit 20:00:37 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:01:14 Xach, how come it's not quickloadable? :) 20:01:20 oudeis: it's half-baked 20:01:49 ok 20:02:08 Hexstream: your (progn ...) form is not a constant form by the glossary definition. 20:02:26 oudeis: I've used simple-date and local-time a few times. 20:02:28 Xach: That's exactly my point... 20:02:31 Ok. 20:02:37 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 20:02:39 depending on what's required. 20:03:33 (progn (print (random 10)) 'always-same-value) always returns the same result and yet is definitely not a constant, and according to pjb's erroneous definition it would have been a constant... 20:03:39 Fade, pkhuong thanks for suggestions 20:04:11 -!- ignas [~ignas@212.180.202.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:04:37 francogrex [~user@109.130.144.85] has joined #lisp 20:04:46 I stand corrected. 20:05:04 (I was just trying to do some pedagogical simplification...) 20:05:20 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:05:53 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 20:06:02 That simplification was the opposite of pedagogical, but you're forgiven ;) 20:12:48 -!- alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:15:04 ChibaPet [~mason@206.53.243.79] has joined #lisp 20:15:06 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@206.53.243.79] has left #lisp 20:19:07 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 20:19:28 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:21:01 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 20:21:09 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:21:45 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:22:47 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:23:00 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:24:01 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 20:24:10 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:24:36 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 20:25:55 Hmmm. how long should the PROFILE THREADS test in SBCL take. It's been heating up my computer for quite some time now (more than an hour, I think.) 20:26:35 SBCL 1.0.51 on a one-year old MacBook Pro. 20:26:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-158-117.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 20:27:22 Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:27:54 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:28:27 Spring-heeled [~Spring-he@169.sub-75-202-179.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:29:57 -!- seangrove [~user@c-24-6-209-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:30:10 rolando` [~user@149.179.54.77.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:30:41 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:31:09 -!- Spring-heeled [~Spring-he@169.sub-75-202-179.myvzw.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:32:01 Unhandled memory fault at #x41247E5B9B0 theres a first time for everything 20:32:02 gigamonkey: bug, probably 20:32:26 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 20:34:31 Spring-heeled [~Spring-he@70.sub-75-225-137.myvzw.com] has joined #lisp 20:34:43 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:36:11 pkhuong: in the tests or in SBCL? 20:36:20 I.e. do I care or can I go ahead and install. 20:37:53 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:38:15 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 20:38:49 gigamonkey: either, but you can still go ahead and install unless you plan on really stress testing threads 20:38:52 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 20:41:11 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:43:15 jcazevedo [~jcazevedo@bl18-68-88.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 20:45:46 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.144.85] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:46:13 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f765845.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 20:47:36 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has 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[~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:34:59 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-44-252.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:38:29 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:39:09 -!- Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has left #lisp 21:40:45 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc43f.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 21:41:28 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:42:10 hey has anyone used quicklisp with cl-launch? Working on a shell script that can be executed through the sungrid engine for the cluster a little easier. It's having issues loading a library I need. Pulled the contents from the ~/.sbclrc into the initform portion of cl-launch, but no workie 21:42:11 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:42:45 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:44:23 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC05FFC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 21:44:43 One solution is to put it in the eval topload/compile/etc portion, but maybe there's a cleaner way. 21:46:53 -!- gkeith_glaptop_ [~gkeith@nat/google/x-jqzldrjgpgqsfone] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:46:53 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 21:49:19 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 21:52:39 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:53:25 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 21:55:41 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc43f.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 21:57:20 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:57:47 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:59:20 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:00:55 replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 22:01:01 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:38 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:01:54 fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has joined #lisp 22:03:57 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:04:09 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:05:06 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:05:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:05:41 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:05:41 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:09:31 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:12:23 sacho [~sacho@82.137.64.217] has joined #lisp 22:14:19 -!- jikanter [~Adium@66.146.192.95] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:18:51 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:19:05 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:19:15 pnq [~nick@AC81152C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 22:25:43 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:25:43 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:29:48 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:30:50 Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 22:34:15 Krystof_ [~user@81.174.155.115] has joined #lisp 22:35:25 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-209-162.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:35:45 lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:46 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@pool-173-65-194-148.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:35:46 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 22:36:01 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:36:06 -!- Krystof [~user@81.174.155.115] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:57 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:58 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:38:40 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81152C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:39:51 -!- tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:40:58 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:42:41 -!- Obfuscate [~keii@ip98-176-16-175.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:44:56 topeak [~topeak@118.186.129.184] has joined #lisp 22:47:53 rme [~rme@50.43.187.92] has joined #lisp 22:50:10 Xach: ping 22:50:34 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:52:46 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-160-186.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:53:25 Hi Kenjin 22:53:28 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 22:55:15 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@189.102.183.3] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:56:56 was ist los? 22:57:33 Xach: I've found one answer of yours on stackoverflow regarding cxml and cxml-stp 22:57:46 ok 22:57:55 was wondering if you ever got something like "attempt to represent a namespace declaration as an ATTRIBUTE" 22:58:08 I'm thinking this means the doc is not well formed 23:00:49 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-62-227-71.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:00:49 thing is I haven't found another lib that supplies something like do-recursively or find-recursively 23:01:28 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:01:43 Kenjin: well, if you use xmls, it's called maptree... 23:01:52 Kenjin: hmm 23:02:01 Kenjin: i have not had that problem. what does the doc look like? 23:02:22 Xach: its a webpage 23:02:43 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@ZYKCDXLVII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:02:47 (should've mentioned that in the first place) 23:03:45 alvis [~alvis@tx-71-2-122-27.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:21 Kenjin: XHTML? 23:04:33 Xach: yes 23:05:43 Xach: cxml-stp is complaining on this "
" 23:06:12 Kenjin: i don't know enough about xml to comment, sorry. 23:06:18 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:06:38 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:07:23 Xach: cxml-stp states its for well-formed xml docs. I don't know enough either. But since its complaining I suppose that bit is not well formed 23:09:20 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:11:13 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 23:11:32 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 23:12:29 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:13:05 sellout [~Adium@72.54.105.13] has joined #lisp 23:14:41 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:16:52 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:52 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.131] has joined #lisp 23:18:37 StrmSrfr [~user@208.72.159.205] has joined #lisp 23:19:20 gigamonk` [~user@adsl-99-24-216-201.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:21:14 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:22:54 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.29.229] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:23:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:52 Hey guys. Quick, silly question just to verify I'm reading this right: http://sbcl.git.sourceforge.net/git/gitweb.cgi?p=sbcl/sbcl.git;a=blob;f=src/code/target-hash-table.lisp;h=27b732270d4b705b0b582555c9690ae226c712bf;hb=HEAD#l692 if sb!kernel::*gc-epoch* increases (or, for that matter, changes in any way) every time before the code expanding from RESULT executes, gethash will never return? 23:27:13 -!- hyoyoung [~morris@210.117.152.122] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:27:30 hyoyoung [~morris@210.117.152.122] has joined #lisp 23:29:39 -!- Yuuhi [~user@p4FC95B0F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:32:12 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:33:32 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:34:48 Is there a tool/way to analyze which objects on the heap are largest? 23:35:17 StrmSrfr: looks like it, but GCs should be rare 23:36:19 Qworkescence: CL:ROOM should say something about them. 23:36:40 -!- Younder [~john@238.202.34.95.customer.cdi.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:36:56 StrmSrfr: or at least rare relative to the runing time of gethash. I suppose it's theoretically possible that a lot of threads generating a lot of garbage very quickly could starve out gethash 23:37:10 pjb: in CLISP, yes. I found ROOM in different lisps to be rather tightlipped 23:37:42 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:37:43 Qworkescence: on the other hand, you could have some fun writting an object walker. AFAIK, the only non-portable code will be around structure slots... 23:37:44 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:37:58 yeah 23:38:20 http://www.mahdiyusuf.com/post/9947002105/most-pressed-keys-and-programming-syntaxes << As expected for lisp 23:38:27 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 23:38:37 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:39:07 jasom: I'm not saying it happens, I just wanted to make sure that the flag that went off in my head of "but what if...!!!" wasn't spurious :) 23:39:46 The_third_man, Interestingly lisp is the only one where "E" is not the red hot one 23:40:20 it's because of the parentheses 23:40:26 The_third_man: even the commenters seem to think it's an inaccurate portrayal 23:40:45 The_third_man, I realize 23:40:56 this analysis has been done before, and probably better 23:41:09 but the E is red because it's the most used letter in English i guess 23:41:44 nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 23:41:50 I did my own, but I don't remember the results, aside from the fact that one of the parentheses came out more than the other in the SBCL sources and it slightly disturbed me.... 23:42:07 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:43:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-59-79.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:43:41 that's weird, yeah 23:43:56 Oh, it just counts characters? I thought it was recording actual keyboard usage. 23:44:12 sellout: really? 23:44:14 Of course, then it becomes much more editor-dependent. 23:44:23 not really 23:44:28 StrmSrfr: Well, I would use data like that to inform a keyboard layout. 23:44:39 It's what's in your code 23:44:45 not the commands or macros 23:44:58 ooh, dangerous territory 23:45:14 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:40 (it's not case sensitive unfortunetaly 23:48:32 -!- _a7p is now known as a7p 23:49:05 So anyway, this guy (or whomever he's ripping off) did it first and better: http://www.blendedtechnologies.com/visualization-tricks-generate-a-heatmap-of-your-keystrokes/ 23:49:16 s/first/before 23:49:18 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-193-12.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 23:49:26 Shaftoe [~memet@88.242.29.174] has joined #lisp 23:49:27 interestingly, he also used an Apple keyboard 23:49:37 -!- Shaftoe is now known as Shaftoe_ 23:50:10 anyone know what is up with the latest cl-store on the latest sbcl (1.0.51) 23:50:11 ? 23:50:41 (I get an error during asdf:load-op) 23:50:59 qsun [~Quan@eth123.nsw.adsl.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:29 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 23:52:27 anyone can recommend a good library for serializing arbitrary data structures to file and back? 23:53:38 *StrmSrfr* is out 23:53:58 marsell_ [~marsell@120.18.61.123] has joined #lisp 23:55:28 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:55:55 Shaftoe_: if you choose your data structures carefully, then PRINT and READ are a good pair of library routines for serializing. 23:56:14 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.20.117.143] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:56:15 -!- marsell_ is now known as marsell 23:56:44 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 23:57:04 replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 23:57:20 pnq [~nick@ACA2D653.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:57:21 -!- nowhere_man [~pierre@AStrasbourg-551-1-20-164.w86-213.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:57:37 It's a data structure into which a higher level user (dev) can stuff whatever he wants. I don't want to limit the functionality. 23:57:49 cl-store seems to be abandoned (2009 was last update) 23:57:54 so I'm lookinga t cl-serialize 23:58:06 but that thing has a weird homepage. 23:58:13 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds]