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reset by peer] 00:50:07 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:50:25 cb` [~user@cpe-72-134-23-187.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 00:51:59 ah, I see, there's a specialized :create-enum form. 00:52:18 that'll do! 00:54:43 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:55:01 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 00:55:43 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:59:39 setheus [~setheus@cpe-70-116-140-134.tx.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:01:01 rgrinberg [~rudi@24-246-26-34.cable.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 01:02:44 -!- wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:04:12 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 01:06:33 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Client Quit] 01:09:17 wtetzner 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[~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 02:26:14 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A50E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:26:18 hm 02:26:26 wonder why xml-emitter isn't in quicklisp 02:27:32 Never heard of it 02:29:52 http://www.cliki.net/xml-emitter 02:30:00 seems reasonably popular for rss 02:30:19 What uses it to emit rss? 02:30:48 I dunno, but when I google "common lisp rss" it comes up a lot 02:31:23 looks like cl-who can do the job just fine too, though 02:32:03 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-63-225-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:35:24 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:35:43 replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has joined #lisp 02:40:02 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ndveeayojpygslqs] has left #lisp 02:41:16 -!- Yamazaki-kun [~bsa3@2001:ba8:1f1:f0ed:216:5eff:fe00:16b] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:41:20 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#lisp 03:31:20 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:57 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 03:32:28 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 03:32:34 gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has joined #lisp 03:32:54 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has joined #lisp 03:32:58 nicdev__ [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:33:36 does last take O(n) time to retrieve? what about the 2nd to last item? 03:33:49 on a normal list that is 03:34:27 <_3b> yes 03:35:07 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:35:07 -!- nicdev__ is now known as nicdev 03:35:49 <_3b> (2nd to last would only differ by a constant, so would still be O(n) even if it didn't have to check the whole N) 03:35:56 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:13 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:40:13 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ypavqxcoermsnrqn] has joined #lisp 03:43:58 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-ypavqxcoermsnrqn] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:44:21 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lwekbkqxcnjldhrf] has joined #lisp 03:44:21 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.82] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 03:47:12 elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has joined #lisp 03:48:53 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-214-106-120.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 03:49:33 when I run (ql:quickload "package"), is the package getting compiled and then executed? 03:49:56 I'm asking because my euler code is really slow, and I can't tell if I'm accidentally running it in interpreted mode or something 03:50:28 Bike1 [~Glossina@71-214-106-120.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:41 *_3b* suspects quickload operates on "systems" not "packages", and that it probably compiles and loads 03:50:48 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:51:01 here's my code: https://gist.github.com/1199720 (I don't think I'm doing anything that would make it *that* much slower) 03:51:02 <_3b> executing might be a side effect of either of those though 03:51:53 <_3b> are you sure it is slow? 03:52:19 *_3b* doesn't see where it would terminate, whithout which it seems like it would be hard to judge performance 03:52:43 <_3b> ah, nevermind... it just has a slow termination check 03:53:05 <_3b> LENGTH is also O(n) 03:53:22 <_3b> so calling LENGTH N times is O(N^2) 03:53:47 ooh 03:54:03 I'll just keep a counter then, thank you for pointing that out 03:54:33 <_3b> you can just use LIM as a counter, and decrement it when you recurse 03:55:05 <_3b> (or just write it iteratively instead of using recusion for no obvious reason) 03:55:34 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-96-224-163-14.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:55:57 *_3b* would probably also change the API of the function so it doesn't need '(2 1) passed to it 03:56:35 <_3b> unless that "gen" i ssupposed to mean "generic" or something, and you might be passing arbitrary first two values 03:56:49 _3b: those are both good points; decrementing lim does seem more pragmatic 03:57:55 as to your second point about implicitly passing the '(1 2) list, how would I do that? I don't want to just add another function definition, seems like overkill 03:58:08 -!- gigamonk` is now known as gigamonkey 03:58:30 *_3b* would write it with LOOP, in which case 1 and 2 would just be initial values of some iteration variables 03:58:58 <_3b> if you really wanted to keep it recursive, you could put the recursive part in a LABELS, and pass the 2 1 to that 03:59:23 *_3b* would probably make a new list though, to avoid returning a list that ends with a literal list 04:00:03 sherkund: You're doing Project Euler, right? There's a better way to find the sum of the first n numbers than finding and summing them, actually. 04:00:05 <_3b> that comment looks wrong too, it returns N numbers, not numbers below N 04:00:06 nick Bike 04:00:08 -!- Bike1 is now known as Bike 04:00:10 Whoops. 04:00:58 <_3b> yeah, just calculating the total firectly would be a better solution overall, if you don't have any other use for a fib generator :) 04:01:35 Depends on whether you're doing it for math skills or coding skills, I guess. 04:01:56 *_3b* assumed the latter, which is why i'd skipped that bit so far 04:02:15 Yuuhi` [~user@p4FC95064.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:05:59 -!- Yuuhi [~user@p4FC91FB7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:06:10 what are some alternatives to google? anyone use Bing? 04:06:11 I am trying to learn lisp through project euler 04:06:30 Well, there's some easy code for Fibonacci in Practical Common Lisp. 04:06:31 Bike: what do you mean calculate the numbers directly? 04:06:45 dto: you could google for search engines :) 04:07:37 -!- heow [~heow@colo-69-31-43-106.pilosoft.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:07:55 jfleming: :) 04:08:04 hmm, I guess I'm going to have to read that. thanks for pointing that out Bike. 04:08:32 sherkund: take a look to sicp exercise 1.19. 04:08:35 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-11.html#%_sec_1.2.4 04:09:52 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-68-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:17:08 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 04:17:55 -!- elderK [~k@pdpc/supporter/active/elderk] has left #lisp 04:19:23 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_nop 04:23:47 marsell [~marsell@120.22.134.214] has joined #lisp 04:24:00 I google for 'qemu lisp' returning a stupid first shot 04:25:19 what does it mean to say that a class is 'finalized'? 04:26:41 Ralith: In Java it means you can't subclass it, is this a lisp thing? 04:26:57 considering the channel I asked it in... 04:27:43 Oh, wait, there's finalized inheritance, duh. 04:28:07 hm. 04:28:12 Ralith: http://www.alu.org/mop/concepts.html#class-finalization-protocol 04:29:52 thanks. 04:30:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-208-134.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:30:05 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@173.239.83.3] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:30:17 I have a class with no superclasses. Is there any way I can get it to be instantly finalized? I want access to a list of its slots in a top-level form. 04:30:58 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:32 -!- H4ns` [~user@pD4B9EA2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:31:38 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:32:02 fihi09` [~user@pool-71-190-68-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:32:10 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:32:14 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 04:32:14 Ralith: I think you can just call finalize-inheritance. 04:32:24 okay then 04:32:30 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-68-97.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:32:45 Bike: was hoping for something that was natively portable, though. 04:33:16 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:33:20 Yuuhi`` [~user@p4FC95064.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:33:34 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 04:33:47 -!- tsuru [~charlie@50.9.237.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:51 antgreen` [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099039.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 04:33:53 tsuru [~charlie@50.9.237.217] has joined #lisp 04:33:58 -!- Yuuhi` [~user@p4FC95064.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:34:02 H4ns` [~user@pD4B9EA2E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:34:45 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:35:09 -!- tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:35:43 tunes [~Fare@ita4fw1.itasoftware.com] has joined #lisp 04:37:14 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099039.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:40:25 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 04:40:47 Ralith: How do you get a list of slots without using the MOP? 04:42:10 via another library which does use the mop! 04:42:17 which means there's no cost to the dependency I suppose. 04:42:31 oh, makes sense. 04:43:37 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-63-225-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:44:18 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@173.239.83.3] has joined #lisp 04:44:41 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.5.220] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 04:45:40 Evanescence [~Evanescen@122.237.5.220] has joined #lisp 04:45:58 sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-63-225-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:47:04 -!- jerx [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:47:36 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:47:44 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-165-221.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 04:48:17 Good morning everyone! 04:49:08 morning, beach! :) 04:50:59 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:51:51 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 04:53:43 BountyX [~erhan@li324-213.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:54:22 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:56:32 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 04:56:58 -!- BountyX [~erhan@li324-213.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:57:04 BountyX [~erhan@li324-213.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:57:05 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:57:59 -!- BountyX [~erhan@li324-213.members.linode.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:00:33 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:00:57 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 05:00:58 -!- tsanhwa [~user@2001:da8:8001:240:222:68ff:fe14:6de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:01:47 How does one use local-time with postmodern? 05:02:22 ah, nvm 05:02:34 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 05:02:40 -!- sherkund [~sherkund@c-24-63-225-198.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 05:04:25 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.134.214] has quit [Quit: marsell] 05:04:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:08:33 hm. 05:08:42 simply depending on cl-postgres+local-time didn't work. 05:08:53 postmodern is still using simple-date 05:09:10 ah, I see. 05:09:28 wolfpython [~wolf@112.3.255.116] has joined #lisp 05:09:52 zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has joined #lisp 05:10:37 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: ArchMonkey] 05:11:55 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:13:26 Vivitron` 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07:12:23 ehu [~ehuels@109.38.50.43] has joined #lisp 07:13:43 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:15:01 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 07:16:10 good morning 07:18:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:19:19 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:19:41 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:47 gko [~gko@27.240.162.161] has joined #lisp 07:20:50 varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has joined #lisp 07:21:14 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:24:06 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:24:11 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007080.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 07:26:10 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 07:26:42 mvilleneuve: hi 07:29:11 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:30:02 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 07:31:11 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:35:21 ehu: hi, care to answer a few questions? 07:40:50 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:06 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 07:43:14 -!- MoALTz_ [~no@host-92-18-25-7.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:43:47 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-25-7.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 07:45:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007080.public.telering.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:49:00 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 07:52:17 hi 07:52:24 flip214: sys64738 : load 07:53:24 Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has joined #lisp 07:53:56 flip214: have you ever tried lisp for commodore 64^ 07:53:59 flip214: have you ever tried lisp for commodore 64? 07:55:33 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:58:21 Posterdati: hi! sorry, no time. 08:03:01 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:03:51 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has joined #lisp 08:08:54 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:09:05 flip214: would be interesting, to port it to avr micros 08:09:46 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 08:10:21 -!- tsuru [~charlie@50.9.237.217] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:14:16 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:14:37 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 08:16:29 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 08:17:05 -!- Athas [~athas@shop3.diku.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:17:29 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:18:55 Amyn [~abennama@62.23.212.21] has joined #lisp 08:20:06 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:20:32 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 08:20:57 Posterdati: I'd rather improve the compilers of sbcl or ecl, to get smaller output, and to decrease the runtime. see shake-lisp-and-die - in a much improved version, of course. 08:22:06 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:22:20 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:22:51 flip214: don't know how to port ecl to atmega2560 :) I'm looking at c source right now 08:24:15 ecl gives c files to a c compiler, so it should be "trivial" to emit atmega code ;) 08:24:58 flip214: I'd like to embed ecl into atmega memory just to have a serial repl on it 08:26:45 -!- Modius 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[Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:18:55 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:20:07 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 09:20:10 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Client Quit] 09:23:15 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 09:26:39 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 09:26:49 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-gpiulaibcmtunvaa] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 09:29:01 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@wireless.its.sdu.dk] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 09:29:02 -!- replore [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:36:47 Can someone recommend a lib for generating fairly simple XML? 09:37:21 Ralith: generating in what way? There are some translators between sexps and XML, for example. 09:37:32 alama [~jessealam@83.240.224.14] has joined #lisp 09:37:41 I'm trying to build an RSS feed 09:37:55 so nothing terribly fancy, but it needs to support mixed-case tags 09:37:59 which cl-who makes very awkward 09:38:22 but other than that, something along the lines of cl-who would be ideal 09:38:50 -!- alama [~jessealam@83.240.224.14] has quit [Client Quit] 09:38:53 you could use some parts of CL-XML to do so. Maybe write your own tagset based on YACLML mechanism 09:39:25 cl-xml seems kind of massively overkill 09:39:31 or wait 09:39:32 hm 09:40:09 p_l|backup: cliki says cl-xml is broken on sbcl... 09:41:10 well 09:41:26 will take a look at yaclml, I guess, as I really don't need a parser 09:43:14 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-imsofcpkaexjjxnv] has joined #lisp 09:43:49 Ralith: ... broken? 09:44:02 that's what it says! 09:44:22 s/cl-xml/cxml/ 09:44:34 my memory can be faulty, sorry 09:45:01 ah. 09:48:21 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:29 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-imsofcpkaexjjxnv] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:49:15 p_l|backup: are the docs for that hosted somewhere? 09:49:42 http://common-lisp.net/project/cxml/ 09:49:58 mind you, it's a full XML library 09:50:25 well, I can't seem to find anything else that doesn't have similarly huge dependencies 09:50:28 and is in quicklisp 09:50:44 xml-emitter looks promising, that problem aside 09:50:57 asdf-install is in quicklisp 09:51:40 Ralith: well, cxml has xmls support 09:51:55 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.56] has joined #lisp 09:52:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-207-11.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 09:52:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-207-11.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 09:52:08 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:52:29 Xach: the appeal of having all deps in quicklisp is (ql:quickload :my-system) Just Works 09:55:10 cxml does look nice, though, and if I pull in talcl it's there anyway 09:55:38 Xach: added asdf-install to make it more meta? 09:56:50 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:57:17 Way more. 10:01:42 flip214: what about picolisp? 10:05:09 i'm having enough problems trying to produce standalone applications for normal OSes 10:05:23 but perhaps such embedded stuff would actually be easier 10:05:37 drake01 [~drake01@115.246.221.7] has joined #lisp 10:05:37 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ehwvzmrztkszlpcw] has joined #lisp 10:05:58 -!- drake01 [~drake01@115.246.221.7] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 10:07:07 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 10:07:19 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.56] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 10:09:19 Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.56] has joined #lisp 10:09:37 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@193.136.207.56] has quit [Client Quit] 10:09:54 can't get cxml to work 10:10:19 :/ 10:10:52 Posterdati: picolisp sounds interesting ... 10:10:54 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-ehwvzmrztkszlpcw] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:10:59 thanks, I'm taking a look 10:11:13 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-xzxmozyzzjffmkkw] has joined #lisp 10:11:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-xzxmozyzzjffmkkw] has quit [Changing host] 10:11:13 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 10:11:19 oh, wait 10:11:20 hm 10:11:37 got it 10:11:43 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:14:18 -!- elliottcable [~me@ell.io] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:14:44 alama [~jessealam@83.240.224.14] has joined #lisp 10:18:38 flip214: I need help to port in on avr 10:21:23 -!- buguldey [~buguldey@client-76-100.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:22:08 -!- pinterface1 is now known as pinterface 10:25:39 Zhivago [~zhivago@li49-59.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 10:25:58 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 10:28:23 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 10:29:31 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007119.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 10:30:33 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:31:43 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:31:57 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 10:33:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007119.public.telering.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:36:08 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.155.134] has joined #lisp 10:36:14 please does anyone know how to repeat s command in vim? Thanks 10:38:23 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.121.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:44:24 oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-50-16.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 10:48:29 s command as in substitute (s/old/new/) ? 10:48:40 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-eijoyipebrymafek] has joined #lisp 10:48:40 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-eijoyipebrymafek] has quit [Changing host] 10:48:40 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 10:55:59 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 10:55:59 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 10:56:35 -!- gko [~gko@27.240.162.161] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:58:52 -!- marsell [~marsell@120.22.193.37] has quit [Quit: marsell] 11:02:56 -!- churib_zzzZZZzzz is now known as churib 11:05:37 -!- alama [~jessealam@83.240.224.14] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 11:08:21 markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 11:13:58 fgump [~fgump__@cpc4-sgyl31-2-0-cust48.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 11:18:29 -!- fgump [~fgump__@cpc4-sgyl31-2-0-cust48.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:18:37 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:08 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:20:17 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:24:15 Posterdati: use ':s' or '&' 11:24:52 spacefrogg: yes, thanks 11:25:29 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 11:29:30 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 11:30:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:32:17 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lwekbkqxcnjldhrf] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 11:33:05 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:34:08 flip214: picolisp != common lisp 11:35:33 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f765845.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:36 Hello! 11:38:01 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:38:54 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:39:13 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 11:51:37 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:53:24 replore_ [~replore@PPPnf3988.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 11:58:54 -!- replore_ [~replore@PPPnf3988.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:00:04 replore_ [~replore@PPPnf3988.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:01:53 ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 12:04:51 -!- replore_ [~replore@PPPnf3988.kanagawa-ip.dti.ne.jp] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:06:09 tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:09 -!- tritchey_ [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:06:39 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 12:07:03 replore [~replore@g1-223-25-153-99.bmobile.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:08:52 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:09:44 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:14:28 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 12:15:41 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:18:29 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 12:18:57 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:25:22 why could a process stay alive after (sb-ext:process-kill proc 9?) 12:25:48 freiksenet: what do you mean by "alive"? 12:26:22 I suppose it wasn't killed. 12:26:33 it stays in the process list and eats processor and memory 12:26:54 freiksenet: ok, then "proc" did probably not contain the pid of the process 12:27:12 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:27:15 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 12:28:16 H4ns: duh. you are right. that process calls another process and _that_ one hange. 12:28:18 hangs. 12:28:28 H4ns: thanks a lot! 12:28:35 *bow* 12:29:50 silenius [~silenius@p4FFC99E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:33:41 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:40:28 E3D3 [~ax2b4u@i213226.upc-i.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 12:42:28 urandom__ [~user@p548A4829.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 12:45:49 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:47:17 -!- E3D3 [~ax2b4u@i213226.upc-i.chello.nl] has left #lisp 12:48:20 jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.8.103] has joined #lisp 12:48:31 -!- zmyrgel [~user@193.64.112.22] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:51:41 blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has joined #lisp 12:55:40 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-65-245.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 12:59:01 hi 13:00:37 barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-133-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:44 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:11:48 antifuchs: are you around? 13:12:07 mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-50-210.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 13:12:53 there is a handy little command in slime that i used to quit sbcl in the past but i totally forgot it, what could that be? 13:13:22 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-153-35.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 13:13:32 ,sayoonara ? 13:13:53 maybe it started with , ? 13:14:10 not sayoonara, but it took me to a command shell, some kind of it 13:14:22 and then i typed quit 13:15:00 -!- Evanescence [~Evanescen@122.237.5.220] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 13:15:24 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:15:54 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@58.62.107.212] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:17:13 C-Keen: well, thx, i think what i was looking for was , 13:17:21 ok 13:18:17 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:20:02 -!- barryfm [~barryfm@fl-71-2-133-215.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 13:21:50 ,s works too 13:24:25 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:26:58 pnq [~nick@ACA201C7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:28:15 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 13:30:46 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yriopwpbzntvvezl] has joined #lisp 13:32:33 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 13:33:24 Is there a channel dedicated to SLIME? 13:33:43 Qworkescence: slime with cl is discussed here 13:33:49 slime with other languages not very much. 13:34:41 Xach, How do you manage SLIME's buffers? The whole compilation buffer poping up "over" my other buffers gets sort of annoying. ;) 13:35:26 doesn't bother me much, so i've never looked into it 13:35:41 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:35:52 Xach, Perhaps your emacs setup is just inherently better. 13:37:57 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:21 Qworkescence: which compilation buffer do you mean? When there's a problem? 13:40:35 I don't usually see stuff pop up 13:40:43 :D 13:40:49 jerx [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:49 Xach, Compilation notes 13:41:08 Qworkescence: I don't tend to see those, I guess. 13:41:08 I usually don't either unless there is an issue 13:41:21 well, there you go. write code with no issues! problem solved! 13:41:49 . o O ( Why didn't I think of this?? ) 13:42:27 . o O (Unfortunately not all of my coworkers write the best code.) 13:44:36 Another question: Is there a way to fontify output from compiling from the repl? e.g., I would like to fontify warning messages which have a particular style matchable by regex. 13:49:47 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has quit [Quit: Offline] 13:50:41 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 13:51:18 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:51:37 -!- nicdev is now known as nicdev_ 13:52:08 jfletcher [jf@jamesfletcher.org] has joined #lisp 13:53:10 in cxml, is there an easy way to include the top-level element of an existing XML file in the output when using cxml:with-xml-output? i've parsing the file into cxml::*sink*, but that does not quite work because i can't get rid of the i've _tried_ 13:54:21 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:56:29 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 13:57:50 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:00:04 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:00:44 -!- antgreen` [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099039.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:01:30 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA201C7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01:53 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:03:43 -!- replore [~replore@g1-223-25-153-99.bmobile.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:08 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:04:16 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffecc8.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 14:04:34 Chanl is really quite coolgot it working, from yesterday's conversation. 14:05:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:05:51 nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:05:54 One thing I'm a little unsure ofkilling a task, ideally I'd listen on a channel for a kill signal and cleanup, exit, etcbut lets say I didn't wnat to do that, or kill the thread (kill-thread)is there another way? Im' not seeing a way to kill the particular task. 14:07:06 Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has joined #lisp 14:07:08 pnq [~nick@ACA201C7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:07:13 kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.74] has joined #lisp 14:07:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.74] has quit [Changing host] 14:07:14 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 14:08:34 -!- redline6561_nop is now known as redline6561 14:09:48 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 14:14:52 robin912 [~user@119.87.151.136] has joined #lisp 14:16:22 fgump [~fgump__@cpc4-sgyl31-2-0-cust48.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:34 Kenjin: hi! 14:18:41 antifuchs: :) 14:19:05 -!- jerx [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:07 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:19:09 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:19:15 antifuchs: since you've done some contributions to the Homebrew SBCL formula 14:19:26 oh yeah (: 14:19:35 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:19:36 antifuchs: I was wondering if you find this useful https://github.com/mxcl/homebrew/pull/7432 14:19:55 antifuchs: and if so, any comments :P 14:20:06 hey, that's neat 14:20:17 you think? 14:20:20 :) 14:20:35 agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-131-220.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 14:21:26 yeah, that's useful. I think that would be a very good inclusion 14:21:41 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:21:55 antifuchs: I'm glad 14:22:39 it was mostly to solve an issue of mine. SBCL would build for 64bit while most the libs I have are 32bits. I had trouble specifically building lispbuider-sdl 14:23:13 where the cocoa-helper would not build because was trying to build 32bit for a 64bit sbcl 14:24:12 my first try was to add -m64 to the cocoahelper makefile, but that didn't work because it depends on other stuff, also 32bit :P 14:24:26 ahaha, ouch 14:24:31 indeed 14:25:20 then I spotted a mention to the SBCL_ARCH variable on some sbcl commit and tought it might be useful in this case 14:26:08 antifuchs: my main doubt was if it's correct to prepend the variable the way I did in the system call 14:26:41 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA201C7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26:52 -!- robin912 [~user@119.87.151.136] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:26:53 that should be fine, but if there will be more variables, you could also modify the ENV hash. 14:26:59 but then, for this one variable it's fine 14:27:09 (and we can rework it to use the ENV hash later) (: 14:28:16 antifuchs: sure. That's why I showed this to you ;) 14:28:33 hi antifuchs, thanks once more for amop!! 14:28:38 later, once it's necessary (: 14:28:49 flip214: you're very welcome! hope you like it (: 14:30:01 antifuchs: yeah. Made the pull request 2 days ago. But since there's always a lot going on with homebrew, I could take awhile :P 14:30:04 *it 14:30:29 pnq [~nick@ACA201C7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:30:31 yeah, it took about a week for my build rework to go in (: 14:30:40 and that was a few months ago 14:30:54 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:31:45 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.38.50.43] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:32:19 antifuchs: well yeah, 250 pull requests, 400 issues, for 5 people can do that :p 14:32:56 yeah (: 14:33:00 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:05 xan_ [~xan@109.144.19.185] has joined #lisp 14:36:18 dl [~user@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 14:37:12 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-140-186.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:38:24 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.16] has joined #lisp 14:41:18 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 14:41:26 ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vbbdekwitvuuedsj] has joined #lisp 14:43:24 stepnem [~stepnem@176.119.broadband10.iol.cz] has joined #lisp 14:46:19 -!- trebor_d` is now known as trebor_dki 14:46:49 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 14:46:55 Speaking of using chanl and designing a proper threaded task. I could use two channels, a listen and an output for exiting, or use the kill method combined with the task-thread method. An illustration is here, http://paste.lisp.org/display/124530 14:47:18 what is a search that is case sensitive: (search "Test" "yhfrgg test") for example? 14:47:22 I'm hoping there's a better way to do thisfeels a bit odd to have a name associated with a task, but not an easy, or proper way if you will, way to kill that particular task. 14:47:59 insenitive I mean 14:48:47 Not sure if you can accomplish that through search, but could use cl-ppcre to do it 14:49:30 francogrex: You could string-upcase both of them 14:49:46 TDT: ok I will look up the function needed in the ppcr package 14:49:56 or downcasethat's a good idea Bike. 14:50:05 Bike: nice; I didn't think of that! 14:50:06 francogrex you mean case insensitive? (search foo bar :test 'equalp) 14:50:30 yes insenitive, but suggestion of Bike is great 14:50:43 Ah yes, (search "test" "yhfrgg Test" :test #'char-equal) seems to work too. 14:51:02 benny [~benny@i577A1581.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 14:51:04 it's like I would do in SQL, but don't know why it didn't occur to me here to upcase 14:51:35 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:52:01 Char-equal seems odd in this case C == c? 14:52:22 kennyd: oh I didn't relize you gave me a solution, thanks it's good 14:53:54 TDT: char-equal, not char= 14:53:59 TDT: if you ever figure out how to implement SELECT properly in ChanL without resorting to the Big Global Lock, do let me know :) 14:54:29 TDT: and if you're interested in a library very similar to chanl that has a "proper" SELECT, check out calispel. 14:54:54 I haven't figured out, totally, what select does yet :) 14:55:30 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA201C7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:55:43 I just started dabbling with it this morningtrying to get a process to fork off, but be able to read its state as it's working, and kill it if neededit'll take hours for it to run, so yeahideally would like to find a way to block the process for a bit, then resume it laterusing the channels feels a littlehackish in a way. 14:55:48 it lets you handle one of multiple possible chanl interactions. 14:56:12 so it will block until X is ready to send, or Y is ready to receive. 14:56:16 sykopomp: SELECT? 14:56:30 oh, select(2)? 14:56:40 no, this one's a macro in ChanL 14:56:45 ah 14:56:53 pnq [~nick@ACA201C7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:57:34 sykopomp: Ah i see. I'll have to read up on that tooI really like chanl so far a lotI mean, I'm just learning about this stuff in my distributed algorithms class this semester, kinda hits nicely to read up on an implementation that does excactly what we're talking about 14:58:27 I'll also look at the other package you mentioned. If I can find a way for chanl to start/stop/pause tasks easily, I'll be happy though :) I suppose I can write the needed functionsbut I really think this kinda of stuff should be built in, and probably isI just haven't found it yet 14:59:34 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 14:59:50 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-207-11.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 14:59:55 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-207-11.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 14:59:56 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 15:00:04 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:00:58 TDT: my recollection if the issue is that arranging for some kind of kill signal to be received, or having the thread terminate when it must, is the Right Thing 15:01:50 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:01:53 s/if/of/ 15:01:59 sykopomp: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124530 is what I wrote to deal with the issue, but yeahI could just use two channels, one for input and one for output, and send a kill message to terminate the thread. 15:02:07 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 15:02:22 what's partek? 15:02:54 Just felt kinda strange to me about the use of a task name, but no way to kill it. Partek is a genomic software package I used to analyze copy number variations on about 1087 people with higher phenotypic data related to glaucoma. 15:03:43 A lot of my tasks here take hours to run, and found myself blocked from doing more work while some stuff was running..so I'm trying to thread some of these jobs out so I can continue work while it's completing. 15:03:46 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:04:05 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:35 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:04:39 Multiple processes can help also. 15:05:10 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has left #lisp 15:05:25 Only problem with the multiple processes is that the memory use of this data set is pretty high 15:05:40 here's a nickel, kid :) 15:05:50 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl21-65-245.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 15:06:04 *Xach* is going to spend $100 today on 16GB for his quicklisp dist building box so he can run more VMs 15:06:08 hah, yeahI haven't tried just running this on the cluster yet. I could,a ctually go that route eventually. 15:06:42 Xach: curiosity, how many are you running? 15:06:49 developing on my MBA right now..which has 4gigs of RAM, currently using almost all of it, and I have only half of the data loadedso yeah, I may have to rethink where I'm running this. 15:06:50 oGMo: zero right now. 15:07:03 ah 15:07:27 oGMo: but i want to try out some stuff and it will be nice if getting a clean slate system is super easy. 15:07:33 Xach: nifty 15:08:57 i'd like to run a number of VMs, but i'm not sure how accurate the reported size of sbcl is (linux) 15:09:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:09:35 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-qvgzgcectsjrafjt] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:10:59 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:11:09 Xach: If you have the money to put the build vm on a solid state disk, you'll get a huge boost in performance..not sure if you're going to try that or not. one reason why I'm doing the MBA thing is due to the solid state. 15:11:25 I have a lot of disk io, and sbcl runs just magnitudes faster for me here as a result. 15:12:06 with 16GB much could just be cached anyway 15:12:13 RAM is cheap, SSD not as cheap 15:12:21 UPS are also cheap 15:12:49 I was using ssd's in the role of filesystem journal containers for awhile, but we found they failed after only a month or two. 15:12:51 for disk io, unless you reference the same file over and over, you shouldn't have the file cached, though. 15:13:08 I don't imagine that the write profile of a build host would be a lot easier on the ssd. 15:13:40 That's a good point, if there's a lot of writes, it could be a problem. I have a feeling I'll ruin the one in my MBA fairly quickly at the route I'm going, heh. 15:14:05 I just don't trust ssd's 15:14:19 which is a shame, because they're really great performance wise. 15:15:03 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:15:06 sykopomp: Hey question if you don't mind..about select. Lets say that the machine I want to run this on has, say 4 cores. Lets say I have 23 tasks I want to perform, would select provide a way to intelligently schedule these tasks so as many threads are running at the same time? 15:15:53 Fade: We use an SSD as a front end to the zfs drive, and it's been pretty solid..and it's been pounded on for the last 6 months near non-stop. It's been holding up pretty well. 15:16:01 TDT: if by 'intelligent' you mean "it'll thrash until it succeeds", then yes. 15:16:19 we've had corsair and intel ssd's fail at a collosal rate. 15:16:36 sykopomp: lolwas more hoping for it scheduing 4 at a timecould loop using (pooled-tasks) to determine when a free slot is available and run the next one. 15:16:54 except, you know, spelled correctly. 15:17:18 Fade: Hm, yeah I'm unsure of what one we're usinghow long ago was this that you tried? 15:17:58 we gave up on the approach about 12 months ago. 15:18:07 the trial only lasted three months. 15:18:25 one machine had three RMA's in that time. 15:18:57 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:19:10 ah, hmm..fairly recent. 15:19:13 Fade: "Russian Martial Arts" ? 15:19:48 "return merchandise authorization" 15:19:50 fe[nl]ix: Don't you mean "Russian Martial Artists"? as they fly out the case when opened? 15:19:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@109.144.19.185] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:21:03 -!- dl [~user@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:21:12 this was in a very heavily loaded 500TB array. 15:21:36 at any rate, heavy writes seem to deep six solid state disks really fast. 15:22:38 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:22:45 Hmmso lets say I want to run this on the cluster, easily..with as few of files as possible. If I load all the data, all the structures needed for the job, then dump the lisp core (not executable), then run from sbcl, that should work without the original files, right? 15:23:16 original being the patient cnvs, database files, and so on..I should just need the core, i think. 15:23:33 yes. it will be a big core. 15:24:07 Xach: compression might help ;) 15:25:00 big core would be fine, thanks. 15:25:15 I'm already using over 5Tb on our cluster, what's a little more... 15:26:07 TDT: I know of at least one clojure-based startup that mainly does an initial load (from S3) to memory and doesn't touch I/O later. 15:26:09 how much data do you load into the lisp? 15:26:33 -!- blandest [~blandest@85.204.33.242] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:26:39 Fade: Sitting about 1Gb of real memory being used, so not that much 15:27:14 sbcl? 15:27:28 TDT: there are GC tricks to make the data immortal. If it's immutable and/or unboxed data, that can help with GC a lot. 15:27:32 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:27:52 p_l|backup: That'd be ideal for meone issue I'm running into is that I have a table in a sqlite database for DGV (database of genomic variants), copy numbers. I need to load at least one of those tables into memory to make querying fasteror else I'm querying that table, wellmany many times. 15:28:20 Fade: yeah, that's what top/activity monitor show for me 15:28:26 TDT: there's also manardb, which uses mmap() to load a hashtable of CLOS objects into memory 15:28:34 Xach: Have you ever tried buildapp with too-low memory? It fails kind of silenty. (It does fail with a non-0 exit code but there's no message whatsoever) 15:28:50 could be modified to support loading once 15:28:51 pkhuong: are there any docs on those tricks? 15:29:11 tcr: has not happened to me yet. 15:29:25 pkhuong: I wish I understood the gc a little better in general, would definitely like to see the docs if you have some available. 15:29:34 tcr! 15:29:44 Xach: Maybe it's reproducible using ulimit. Dunno if it strikes your interest 15:29:49 milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:30:02 tcr: i'll check it out if you check out my named-readtables patch :) 15:30:05 p_l|backup: Hmm, yeah..was thinking here just opening the sqlite database on the dgv ranges, looping through and storing them as an a-list, maybe sorted..then querying would be a little easier. There's not *that* many, I think... 15:30:26 TDT: do they change? 15:30:42 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:31:06 Just 101923, and yeah..they do, but very rarely..every few months I'll update the database. 15:31:31 the manual perhaps? You just run enough full GCs to tenure everything into, say generation 7, and restrict GC to generation 6 and younger (or even fewer if generationality doesn't help on your workload) 15:31:35 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 15:32:00 ahh. interesting hack. 15:33:35 TDT: I'd suggest you look through old-style batch processing. Make preprocessed dumps of sorted data etc. 15:33:48 it also helps with sharing pages between processes as the data isn't moved around. 15:34:19 for sharing pages, also consider enabling page deduplication if running on linux 15:34:54 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@93-172-50-16.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:35:05 I'll have to read up on a lot of that stuff..far beyond what I've tried before. 15:35:45 dl [~user@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:36:37 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 15:36:50 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 15:39:41 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:40:53 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.155.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:42:00 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 15:46:53 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:47:07 -!- jfletcher [jf@jamesfletcher.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:48:05 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 15:49:35 This may be obvious, but with chanl, lets say I execute the same function twicethe variable space that the function defines is private between the two threads executing that same function, right? 15:50:45 setmeaway [~setmeaway@119.201.52.182] has joined #lisp 15:52:05 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:52:43 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:53:24 dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-usrckxnhljjgrhcu] has joined #lisp 15:53:42 TDT: what kind of variables are we talking about here? special variables? variables which you've passed to the function? variables created/used by functions which the parallel function calls? 15:54:00 madnificent: created/used by the function (e.g. let) 15:54:24 TDT: if the let binding is inside of the function, then the variables will be private (just like it works in recursive calls) 15:54:41 madnificent: perfect, figured so but wanted to make sure..thanks 15:54:48 you're welcome 15:58:18 i'd like to have some parseable natural language list, which defines a certain condition that should be met. an example could be: '(my children are sorted by a given variable). are there libraries to accomodate this use, or should i write some ad-hoc parsing? 15:58:51 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 15:59:36 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA201C7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:00:22 also: if there exists a term for this, perhaps which is searchable on cliki, then that'd be awesome 16:01:08 There is fare-matcher for pattern matching. I'm not sure if that's what you are looking for. 16:01:39 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:02:13 -!- tcr [~tcr@217-162-207-189.dynamic.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:03:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:03:17 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 16:03:43 PAIP also has some related material. 16:05:50 austinh: it looks like a good starting point. i should dive into it to assess it further. 16:06:00 madnificent: smug I hear is nice, as well 16:06:15 i hadn't considered looking at PAIP, i have yet to find the time to read it :) 16:07:23 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has joined #lisp 16:08:12 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Client Quit] 16:08:27 madnificent: http://common-lisp.net/~dcrampsie/smug.html 16:08:35 not sure if that's the kind of thing you are looking for, though 16:11:00 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-242-87.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 16:11:11 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-usrckxnhljjgrhcu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:12:55 altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has joined #lisp 16:14:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:15:58 dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-ecnpqdzqjcwazmvc] has joined #lisp 16:16:24 16.5k, pretty good crowdfunding effort 16:17:53 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:19:24 -!- wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:20:39 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.16] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:23:09 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 16:25:04 tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has joined #lisp 16:25:08 felideon: looks really interesting as well 16:25:21 thank you felideon and austinh 16:25:51 -!- markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:25:56 smug is pretty sweet. 16:27:04 markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:27:09 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:28:01 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:28:36 should i be using 1d arrays instead of 2d(and using row/col to lin. indexing functions) if i am concerned about speed? 16:28:44 sbcl latest 16:30:03 You should profile if you are concerned about speed 16:30:04 -!- agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-131-220.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:31:17 agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-166-43.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 16:31:23 sure, but what is the general wisdom on 1d vs. 2d arrays? 16:31:47 Use whatever makes your program clearest. 16:32:00 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:32:33 optimise for maintainability first 16:33:01 only optimise for speed if you actually hit a performance problem, and then profile to find out where your bottleneck is 16:33:48 i need to do a 5-point stencil calculaton on an a (small)image really fast 16:34:11 Then write it in C. 16:34:18 or fortran 16:34:28 and then use ffi, 16:34:29 ? 16:34:56 unfortunately im not familiar with that, but it might be the fastest think to do 16:34:59 I was kidding. Why don't you just do it an then profile it? It'd take less time to test. 16:35:04 thing* 16:35:14 sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 16:35:14 -!- tcr [~tcr@84-72-21-32.dclient.hispeed.ch] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:35:34 my program is run by another, which gives time-slices for it to run 16:35:44 its running in a pythonic sandbox 16:35:57 I've found (properly declared) 2d arrays to be fast enough in SBCL 16:36:02 ill try to profile it, but i expect complications 16:36:09 check out opticl for examples, if you're curious 16:36:21 (3d arrays too) 16:36:28 yes, ive been browsing its github rep. 16:36:36 oh, good 16:36:56 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 16:37:27 oh i see, youre the author 16:37:53 mcstar: if you're doing FP arithmetic, the cost of the naive indexing is probably not too much of an issue. Otherwise, it depends. 16:38:44 pkhuong: im using single-float 16:39:41 the other point to note, is that i will need a nested loop for traversing the 2d array 16:40:05 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-ezvwlgdsiideqmwr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:40:17 i guess theres not much of a difference between using do vs. loop 16:40:35 i mean theoretically, they must compile to similar instructions 16:40:42 except they have their separate groups of haters 16:40:44 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-242-87.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 16:40:55 also very likely noise compared to the stencil computation. 16:43:24 since i already said so much, i add this: im doing an influence map for my ai 16:43:36 For foreign-library-search-path, a variable in clsql, is there some environmental variable it deals with? Seems kinda strange to have to push a location to it before using it 16:46:26 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:46:31 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Exeunt IRC] 16:48:50 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:49:17 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-40-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:49:53 -!- Amyn [~abennama@62.23.212.21] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:52:22 -!- sacho [~sacho@92-247-208-87.spectrumnet.bg] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:54:12 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:55:25 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has left #lisp 16:55:38 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 16:58:13 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:00:02 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 17:01:28 peterhil` [~peterhil@ZKMMDCCXXXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has joined #lisp 17:01:39 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-yriopwpbzntvvezl] has left #lisp 17:04:46 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 17:06:43 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 17:06:52 joelr [~joelr@95.60.213.7] has joined #lisp 17:07:14 good day! i'm trying to start a slime server in a running lisp image. any suggestions on what i'm doing wrong? http://pastie.org/2498180 17:08:52 <_8david> yes, the manual is wrong. It is not sufficient to load the swank-loader. You also need to ask the swank loader to load swank using (swank-loader:init). 17:09:24 -!- Yuuhi`` [~user@p4FC95064.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:10:09 _8david: thanks! 17:10:48 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 17:11:33 there's also the port-file argument that's not mentioned 17:13:11 -!- joelr [~joelr@95.60.213.7] has quit [Quit: joelr] 17:15:34 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:21:34 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 17:23:05 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-153-35.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:23:06 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-153-35.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:26:15 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 17:28:36 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 17:28:50 I may have asked this before, but are Cells-GTK and Cello projects dead? 17:29:06 Anybody using them? 17:32:46 homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:19 *Xach* hasn't heard of anyone using them 17:33:21 -!- killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:33:41 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-12.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 17:33:42 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 17:33:59 Or what do you use for GUI development? Preferably using native (looking) widgets on OS X and be compatible and themeable (QT, GTK or KDE) with at least Linux. 17:34:00 peterhil`: I know qooxlisp is actively used. 17:34:03 fwiw 17:34:19 sykopomp: Isn't qooxlisp for web apps? 17:34:51 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 17:35:42 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:35:42 peterhil`: yes, but it uses Cells. 17:36:03 <_8david> I've heard good stuff about cl-gtk2. 17:36:10 tonussi [~lucaspt@186.212.56.145] has joined #lisp 17:36:34 <_8david> I'd also like CommonQt to be really good at some point, but there is still much work left to do. 17:36:37 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:52 -!- tonussi [~lucaspt@186.212.56.145] has left #lisp 17:38:00 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 17:38:03 anddam [~anddam@host75-142-dynamic.246-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 17:38:07 hello 17:40:13 hello anddam 17:40:29 I'm having issues building 2.49 with llvm-gcc-4.2 17:40:44 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@41.56.8.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:40:44 *Xach* guesses clisp 17:40:50 ah yes, my bad 17:41:04 I'm on OS X 17:41:30 and I'm building clisp using macports, I see genclisph doesn't produce a valid clisp-test.c file 17:41:46 *Xach* hasn't tried building clisp on os x 17:42:20 http://pastesite.com/25829 this is the building output 17:42:45 see the stdbool.h "no such file" error? 17:43:13 I do. 17:43:15 http://pastesite.com/25830 17:43:29 I can't help, sorry. Out of curiosity, why are you using clisp? 17:43:35 Land of Lisp 17:43:42 ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 17:43:43 pretty now to all this 17:43:48 new* 17:43:49 wow. no stdbool.h? 17:44:02 dlowe: that's what it says, but that's false 17:44:18 src $ find . -name stdbool.h 17:44:19 ./gllib/stdbool.h 17:44:35 lets take this off channel 17:45:11 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:45:30 mal20000 [~mal20000@207.62.238.127] has joined #lisp 17:46:02 -!- fgump [~fgump__@cpc4-sgyl31-2-0-cust48.sgyl.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:46:53 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:47:21 part 17:47:23 -!- mal20000 [~mal20000@207.62.238.127] has left #lisp 17:47:52 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 17:48:20 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 17:51:17 -!- paroneayea [~user@fsf/member/paroneayea] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:51:25 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:54:23 _8david: Ok, thanks. Maybe I also look at those options. 17:56:00 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 17:58:06 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.23.14] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:01:00 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:01:13 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:01:16 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:01:27 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:02:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:04:42 anddam: don't use llvm-gcc-4.2 18:04:49 anddam: it may have bugs... 18:04:54 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Client Quit] 18:04:59 Yuuhi [~user@p4FC95064.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:03 that's an idea, but I've built everything else with it 18:05:04 FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has joined #lisp 18:05:31 anddam: i had issues with it too ....until i came across some bug or so..... 18:05:53 anddam: or read it's bug announcements.... 18:06:06 thanks 18:06:12 anddam: maybe there's a point which it skips..... 18:06:25 anddam: or does not handle correctly.... 18:06:41 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 18:11:25 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 18:11:32 mm I patched that but I wonder why gcc-4.2 worked, it's just a print_file() called by that genclisph that pointed to "stdbool.h" rather than gllib/stdbool.h 18:12:19 stdbool.h ? 18:12:26 isn't that c++ stuff ? 18:12:35 the point is that print_file() is a fallback for #ifdef HAVE_STDBOOL_H so the real question is why it's not in include path 18:12:46 wbooze: maybe, first time met for me 18:13:26 nice, built :-) 18:13:32 sorry I understand this is off topic 18:13:50 echo "Test passed." | Test passed. 18:16:01 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 18:16:51 NeoNoir [~ircchatte@79.142.224.133.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:17:29 wbooze: aren't C++ headers .hpp? 18:18:01 or .h 18:18:02 anddam: they can be; in practice .h is far more common 18:18:43 oddly, I've never seen a .hh 18:18:48 (for symetry with .cc) 18:19:02 people who write .h for c++ headers should die in a fire 18:19:28 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffecc8.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 18:19:51 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:20:07 drdo: it's essentially standard practice 18:20:24 the main objection might be that it could potentially mislead editors 18:20:57 yes, that's the main reason it pisses me off 18:21:33 hah, apparently .C (case-sensitive) is also an acceptable extension for C++ files 18:21:52 sorry for seeming brash but how is this relevant in lisp 18:22:48 HG` [~HG@p5DC055C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:23:25 NeoNoir: because it's an issue when trying to get a certain lisp implementation working 18:23:30 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-1177894263.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 18:23:32 i mean wether you use .h, .hpp or .granma 18:26:57 wormwood [~wormwood@pdpc/supporter/student/wormwood] has joined #lisp 18:30:38 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-140-186.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 18:32:30 pschulam [~pschulam@CMU-785202.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has joined #lisp 18:32:49 really..hmm mybad intelib should be looked at 18:33:02 Hi all, can anyone answer a probably trivial lisp question 18:33:27 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 18:34:39 -!- pschulam [~pschulam@CMU-785202.WV.CC.CMU.EDU] has left #lisp 18:35:17 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:35:26 only if you ask it 18:35:58 bye, thanks 18:35:58 -!- anddam [~anddam@host75-142-dynamic.246-95-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:39:22 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:40:38 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 18:44:02 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:44:44 -!- waaaaaargh_ [~waaaaargh@agsb-4d04ad4e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:45:29 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffecc8.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:49:45 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:24 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 18:50:34 -!- EyesIsServer [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:50:35 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.235] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:51:01 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 18:53:59 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 18:54:57 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has left #lisp 19:00:07 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:01:14 -!- FreeArtMan [~FreeArtMa@93.177.213.54] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:02:14 jdz [~jdz@host49-12-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 19:03:53 yak shaving sux... 19:05:08 EyesIsServer [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 19:06:03 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:07:57 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:12:14 ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:13:10 ArchMonkey__ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:15:52 i have a 10$ question 19:15:59 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:15:59 -!- ArchMonkey__ is now known as ArchMonkey 19:16:16 lets say a certain function, lets call it truncate, shows up in my profiler, with a high count 19:16:28 but i dont use it anywhere 19:16:33 how is this possible? 19:16:33 -!- ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:16:40 mcstar: something you call uses it 19:16:51 slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:17:05 the problem is that i cant seem to find what 19:17:28 is it possible that sbcl replaces a floor to truncate? 19:18:08 nvm, that code doesnt run either 19:18:25 mcstar: (disassemble #'floor) 19:18:30 Note call to truncate! 19:20:59 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffecc8.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 19:23:05 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 19:23:49 yes i see 19:24:19 but its in mod too 19:24:44 and i have a couple of them in my code(floor was not called) 19:24:59 now my question is, why doesnt it show up as mod? 19:26:44 mcstar: Why doesn't what show up as mod? 19:28:22 Bike: my call to mod 19:28:33 in the output of sb-sprof 19:28:56 mcstar: It might have been compiled away. 19:29:01 i replaced that mod with a wrapper of mine(uses if's) and now the truncate is gone from the profiler's output 19:29:11 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:20 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:29:30 Xach: bordeaux-threads 0.8.1 included in Quicklisp now, I hear? (with ABCL support! :-) ) 19:29:41 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@p57921BD9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 19:29:45 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 19:30:07 bordeauxious! 19:30:21 Xach: it might seem natural to you, but its weird for me, "compiled away" doesnt explain for me whats going on 19:31:19 mcstar: Say you have (* foo 2) in your code. the compiler might turn that into (ash foo 1) under some circumstance. then the profiler would never show a call to *. 19:31:25 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:31:50 mcstar: the compiler has some freedom to rearrange, rewrite, and otherwise change your code as long as the semantics are the same when it's done. 19:32:33 i guess i never thought it through that the profiler cant reference the source function's name then 19:33:28 ok then, thx 19:34:13 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:35:39 ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:26 johs [~johs@hawk.netfonds.no] has joined #lisp 19:39:05 agspathi` [~user@ppp-94-64-143-144.home.otenet.gr] has joined #lisp 19:39:10 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:39:10 -!- ArchMonkey_ is now known as ArchMonkey 19:39:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:39:38 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:40:15 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:40:45 -!- cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:41:15 -!- agspathis [~user@ppp-94-64-166-43.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:41:18 cataska [~cataska@210.64.6.233] has joined #lisp 19:44:39 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:47:39 -!- paul0 [~paul0@177.42.33.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:51:11 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:00 paul0 [~paul0@187.112.69.138] has joined #lisp 19:53:06 Hexstream [~hexstream@modemcable075.97-200-24.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 19:53:16 Ralith: You were looking for a portable way to finalize-inheritance. A portable and fairly reliable and efficient way would be to call ALLOCATE-INSTANCE on the class. 19:53:25 "08:52:31 the other point to note, is that i will need a nested loop for traversing the 2d array" 19:53:27 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 19:53:30 Not necessarily, you could use ARRAY-TOTAL-SIZE and ROW-MAJOR-AREF if you don't need the row and column numbers. 19:54:32 -!- jasom_ [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:54:39 jasom [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:55:41 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 19:55:52 Hexstream: effectively treating the 2d array as 1d? 19:55:56 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Client Quit] 19:56:01 mcstar: Right. 19:56:23 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 19:56:26 ill make a note of it 19:57:11 You can also make a displaced vector on top of the 2D array. 19:57:42 can that be a simple-array? 19:57:49 No. 19:58:22 clhs simple-array 19:58:22 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/t_smp_ar.htm 20:00:21 -!- agspathi` [~user@ppp-94-64-143-144.home.otenet.gr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:00:46 tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has joined #lisp 20:01:03 as far as i can see a 2d array cant be a simple-array either 20:01:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 20:01:12 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@catv-80-98-25-142.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Changing host] 20:01:12 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 20:01:29 mcstar: Why not? 20:02:34 ive never seen a (simple-array type (* *)) sepcification 20:02:59 I don't follow. 20:03:00 i see, that clhs mentions rank in dimension specification 20:03:10 so then i guess im wrong 20:03:17 thats a good thing 20:07:04 now i have a question regarding this: i used make-array with :element-type 'single-float 20:07:17 but when i try to compile it with optimization on i get this: 20:07:20 The first argument is a (ARRAY * (* *)), not a SIMPLE-ARRAY. 20:07:46 seems the problem is the first *, as if the array had no elemt-type attached to it 20:09:20 -!- The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [] 20:10:33 i think i will try to declare its type before i use it 20:11:28 yep, that worked, sorry guys, i wasnt using cl for 1.5 months 20:11:34 and i forgot this too 20:11:44 that is triple sad. 20:11:52 I've always been kinda intrigued by the presence of "anaphora" in the topic. Is it really wildly popular?! Or someone's trying to "push" it? ;P I thought anaphoric stuff was frowned upon... (I really don't like that kind of thing, myself.) 20:12:02 topic 20:12:20 sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-12-234.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has joined #lisp 20:12:30 Hexstream: I think it's just an arbitrary list of recently updated stuff. that anaphora was recently updated is not an extra-strong endorsement of it. 20:12:36 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffe694.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 20:12:39 The_third_man [~The_third@ram94-12-78-234-200-168.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 20:13:11 Xach: dont hate me, i was a rookie before that too 20:13:20 Xach: The other things in the topic don't make me think that the list is all that arbitrary, but anyway. 20:14:07 -!- Euthy [~euthy@unaffiliated/euthydemus] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:14:36 pnq [~nick@AC82D4E5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:16:03 dwim [~dwim@239.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:58 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:17:20 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has joined #lisp 20:18:00 marsell [~marsell@120.18.250.118] has joined #lisp 20:18:09 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 20:18:10 kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has joined #lisp 20:18:41 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffe694.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:18:50 -!- sabalaba [~sabalaba_@67-194-12-234.wireless.umnet.umich.edu] has quit [Quit: ] 20:18:57 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:19:20 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:20:07 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 20:21:14 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffe694.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 20:21:52 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 20:25:40 -!- subhro [~bsdboy@ggn.ixigo.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:30:05 -!- dwim [~dwim@239.Red-83-33-86.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:31:16 Hexstream: i think you're thinking "anathema", not "anaphora" 20:31:57 oGMo: Or "anesthesia". 20:32:32 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffe694.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 20:33:39 Hexstream: i don't think it'll put you out 20:33:48 anasthasia ? 20:33:55 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC055C9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 20:33:56 lol 20:34:02 kinsky 20:34:39 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@205.233.9.181] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 20:34:45 oGMo: No, it's me who'd like to put it out ;P But I guess I have more urgent battles. 20:36:45 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82D4E5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:36:49 -!- ngz [~user@80.105.193.77.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:40:03 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-ecnpqdzqjcwazmvc] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:41:58 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffe694.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 20:42:41 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:43:00 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 20:45:08 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 20:45:21 ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:16 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75dbcd.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 20:47:41 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:47:41 -!- ArchMonkey_ is now known as ArchMonkey 20:50:45 -!- wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:55:22 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has left #lisp 20:55:56 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 20:59:57 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 21:00:09 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.130.169] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:00:15 hi 21:00:18 kennyd_ [~kennyd@78-1-161-69.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:00:23 prxq: Hello. 21:00:28 -!- gemelen [~shelta@gemelen.net] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 21:00:35 gemelen [~shelta@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 21:00:38 -!- gemelen [~shelta@gemelen.net] has quit [Client Quit] 21:00:56 denisu [~shelta@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:07 -!- jdz [~jdz@host49-12-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:02:09 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-62-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:02:25 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw81ffe694.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 21:02:41 -!- denisu is now known as gemelen 21:06:08 if I know for a fact that I am only dealing with ascii, how do I make read-line return simple-strings ? I am in sbcl and I have tried setting *default-external-format* to :ascii 21:11:44 bobbysmith007: what happened when you left that setting untouched? 21:12:10 rosario [~rosario@p5796BEF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:12:10 -!- rosario [~rosario@p5796BEF0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:12:10 rosario [~rosario@fsf/member/rosario] has joined #lisp 21:14:54 I get something that isnot typep simple-string ... after finding/reading this mailing list thread though, I think maybe this is not the optomization I am looking for http://coding.derkeiler.com/Archive/Lisp/comp.lang.lisp/2005-12/msg01122.html 21:15:13 read-line does return simple-base-strings by default, I think. 21:15:45 bobbysmith007: SBCL uses simple-vectors with element-type character, IIRC 21:15:57 well on ccl. 21:16:15 -!- Intensity [ssRaGK7CLB@unaffiliated/intensity] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:17:17 thanks all, that was what I was seeing in that mailing list... which means doing this probably wouldnt buy me any speed efficiency gains, though might reduce memory consumption a touch 21:18:53 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:19:44 I now also see that my type test was flawed... and now I get simple strings by default... *sigh* thanks again 21:20:32 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:21:10 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:22:12 Intensity [JL6vtkmbs7@unaffiliated/intensity] has joined #lisp 21:23:13 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 21:23:40 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-109-5.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:21 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-12.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:23 -!- mcstar [~mcstar@adsl-89-132-50-210.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 21:31:24 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-153-35.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:32:07 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-168-229.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:32:33 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:32:51 lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has joined #lisp 21:35:09 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-105-32.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:35:57 "If you assign values to variables that have not yet been declared, the variables will automatically be declared as global variables." 21:35:59 gosh 21:36:09 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:36:38 prxq: That's implementation-specific behavior, isn't it? That's unspecified per the standard I think. 21:36:46 (that's javascript) 21:36:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-130-12.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:36:51 Oh. 21:36:54 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 21:37:17 normally, unless you do it on the repl it leads to an error in lisp 21:37:32 and the repl thing is somewhat controversial 21:38:29 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 21:38:59 Idler's question (will save me doing a bit of experimentation if someone already knows): is SLOT-MAKUNBOUND in general going to be faster or slower than just replacing slot value with NIL? 21:39:38 rpg: It should be exactly as fast, I think. SLOT-MAKUNBOUND really just assigns a special value to the slot, internally. 21:40:08 Hexstream: thanks, that makes sense. 21:40:13 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-150-132.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:41:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-105-32.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:41:24 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 21:43:24 rpg: otoh, since the boundp-ness test happens on accesses anyway, makunbound might lead to simpler code on reads 21:44:52 pkhuong: I *hope* that won't be the distinguishing issue. We have a very long-lived application and it occurred to me to wonder whether SLOT-MAKUNBOUND or SETF..NIL would be better when done many, many times. 21:45:08 -!- peterhil` [~peterhil@ZKMMDCCXXXVIII.gprs.sl-laajakaista.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:45:09 I tend to prefer S-MAKUNBOUND, since it clearly signals "this is bad data." 21:45:17 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.192.112] has joined #lisp 21:46:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-150-132.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:46:24 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 21:50:19 *Xach* often defines methods for SLOT-UNBOUND 21:50:20 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.229.246] has joined #lisp 21:50:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:50:44 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-87-79-194-12.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:53:14 I used that once to lazily compute (and cache) a value. There are so many features in CL whose usefulness is not immediately apparent or that seem like mere conveniences, but after a while you end up in a situation where you realize the usefulness instantly. CL is the language that keeps on giving :) 21:53:38 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.192.112] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:53:43 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 21:53:44 Lately I've become a huge, huge fan of multiple values. I couldn't live without them now. 21:54:24 Eatime. 21:57:35 markskil` [~user@host86-136-236-16.range86-136.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 21:59:19 -!- markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:01:32 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75dbcd.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:01:45 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:05:29 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:07:31 ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:09:44 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:09:44 -!- ArchMonkey_ is now known as ArchMonkey 22:11:08 -!- tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:16:10 wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:21:48 -!- milanj [~milanj_@109-93-129-148.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:24:53 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:03 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 22:25:04 -!- dl [~user@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:29:18 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:30:29 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f765845.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 22:33:15 -!- silenius [~silenius@p4FFC99E6.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:35:44 scrimohsin [~joeblow@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 22:35:48 -!- ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-vbbdekwitvuuedsj] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:36:13 -!- Guest84982 [~martin@chop.xades.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:24 mtd [~martin@67.207.131.107] has joined #lisp 22:41:07 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 22:41:48 Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 22:42:39 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.229.246] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:16 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:45:18 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.197.233] has joined #lisp 22:46:08 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:46:43 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 22:47:07 ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ocvzctvngvpmytik] has joined #lisp 22:47:42 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 22:48:13 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 22:48:18 zardoz8 [~zardoz8@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 22:49:08 hello. does _ symbol have a special meaning or it is just a convention used for naming variables whose value is ignored? for example when assigning the result of valueshello. does _ symbol have a special meaning or it is just a convention used for naming variables whose value is ignored? for example when assigning the result of values 22:49:11 -!- xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:49:20 No special meaning. 22:49:21 sorry for repeating 22:49:34 thanks 22:50:55 zardoz8: It's also not a convention in Common Lisp, as far as I know. I think Arc uses that though, maybe it even has special support there. But this channel is specifically about Common Lisp. 22:51:17 I sometimes use the _ symbol and declare it ignorable 22:51:38 I am asking about common lisp. I've seen programs using _ before 22:51:42 it gets ugly if you want to use multiple such ignorable variables though. 22:52:42 Just use normal names (self documenting) and declare the unusued variables ignore or ignorable. 22:53:18 true 22:53:45 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:54:15 Why does progn return all values of its last form whereas prog1 only returns the primary value? 22:54:26 clhs multiple-value-prog1 22:54:26 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_mult_1.htm 22:55:09 I know that exists, but I mean, why is it just progn and not multiple-value-progn vs. progn, then? 22:55:27 Easy... 22:55:38 PROGN returns the multiple values as the last thing it does. 22:56:02 MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1 needs to store the multiple values while it's executing the other stuff. 22:56:08 Bike: that's for implementation simplicity. 22:56:30 hm, okay. 22:56:48 Saving multiple values is not efficient in general because in the worst case you have to cons up a list... 22:57:39 -!- upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:58:50 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-137-70.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 22:59:21 Notice that MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1 is a special operator, while PROG1 is just a macro. The MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1 is a special operator so that it can be smarter at optimizing the temporary storing of multiple values... (I'm inferring this stuff from first principles so I might be wrong...) 23:01:24 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:02:51 rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 23:03:35 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:03:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:04:09 Presumably PROG1 is just (let ((#1=tmp first-form)) execute the body #1#). If MULTIPLE-VALUE-PROG1 was a macro the best it could do is (let ((#1=tmp (multiple-value-list first-form))) execute the body (values-list #1#)). 23:06:36 And (multiple-value-list first-form) == (multiple-value-call #'list first-form), and (values-list #1#) == (apply #'values #1#). Now it's easier to see from where the consing comes from: multiple-value-call is consing a list, and there might be some consing because of (apply #'values) also, I'm not sure if the VALUES function can just reuse the list as &rest without consing it... 23:09:22 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:10:46 on SBCL, it would be possible to do it with a non-consing (not even DX) macro. 23:10:47 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-218-10.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 23:12:12 pkhuong: Care to elaborate? 23:14:27 &rest args aren't listified when they're only used as arguments to apply and values-list since 1.0.49 23:14:51 borkman [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:38 Ah, cool! Yeah, I think I read something to that effect in the commit stream. Handy! 23:17:59 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:21:14 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@static-96-239-100-26.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: wedgeV] 23:24:21 TDT [~TDT@50-82-32-225.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 23:25:21 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.215.73] has joined #lisp 23:25:34 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.197.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:25:34 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 23:28:41 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 23:31:27 -!- carlocci [~carlocci@unaffiliated/carlocci] has left #lisp 23:32:13 -!- Qworkescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:43:58 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:44:15 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:34 tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:22 Mococa [~Mococa@177.16.239.140] has joined #lisp 23:46:03 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:46:29 is there any standard way to get the name and/or other info about the CL implementation you are using? 23:46:50 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:46:53 dto: (lisp-implementation-type), (lisp-implementation-version) 23:47:00 dto: see related functions in the spec 23:47:15 awesome. thank you xach. 23:47:16 dto: Look in the Environment dictionary. 23:47:51 i'm going to add something that shows implementation info on the startup splash 23:47:52 At the bottom. 23:48:11 clhs 25.2 23:48:11 Sorry, I couldn't find anything for 25.2. 23:48:24 clhs section 25.2 23:48:29 Uhhh.... 23:49:32 http://l1sp.org/cl/24.2 23:49:34 err 23:49:36 http://l1sp.org/cl/25.2 23:50:14 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:50:53 wtetzner [~wtetzner@c-24-218-217-69.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:51:22 -!- rvirding [~chatzilla@c213-89-147-188.bredband.comhem.se] has left #lisp 23:52:10 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.215.73] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 23:52:25 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:55:10 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:55:32 pnq [~nick@ACA2267E.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 23:56:40 topeak [~topeak@123.114.120.129] has joined #lisp 23:59:11 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:59:32 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@remote.activestate.com] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.]