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-!- SucklinPig is now known as MeanWeen 01:37:06 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.11.86] has joined #lisp 01:38:54 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC8A4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:39:44 -!- Deathaholic [~Mococa@187.59.207.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:45:46 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54:30 xale [~xale@2001:4b98:dc0:51:216:3eff:fef2:58dd] has joined #lisp 01:57:00 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.244.166] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 01:58:46 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.0.38] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 02:00:18 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:05:01 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82C80C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:05:59 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 02:08:27 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:10:16 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:17:39 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D0DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:17:39 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:17:59 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:21:49 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:28:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:31:54 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:31:57 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:32:39 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:32:58 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:34:28 WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:09 Does anyone know the fix for lispbuilder-sdl and using cl-opengl. I'm getting an error on some old code that used to work. 02:36:27 sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 02:36:51 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:37:17 -!- sellout is now known as Guest12170 02:43:41 mtd [~martin@chop.xades.com] has joined #lisp 02:45:06 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.208.66] has joined #lisp 02:45:39 -!- realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:47:47 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-40-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:48:07 -!- sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 02:52:31 sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has joined #lisp 02:59:17 -!- WarWeasle [~brad@c-98-220-121-27.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:02:00 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Quit: 1951] 03:02:57 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:15 bitflip [~chris.joh@ip70-177-66-101.ok.ok.cox.net] has joined #lisp 03:05:41 -!- bitflip [~chris.joh@ip70-177-66-101.ok.ok.cox.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 03:08:12 sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:09:53 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has joined #lisp 03:12:19 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 03:12:49 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.170] has joined #lisp 03:14:45 _sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:14:45 -!- sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:14:54 -!- _sodel is now known as sodel 03:15:40 -!- weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 03:19:20 phax [~phax@adsl-68-77-75-115.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:20 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-77-75-115.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 03:19:20 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 03:19:22 daniel [~daniel@p508299C6.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:19:38 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 03:21:21 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@p50829044.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:30:02 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 03:35:07 -!- Guest12170 [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:27 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:35:27 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 03:35:52 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:51 simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has joined #lisp 03:40:51 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@123-243-79-139.static.tpgi.com.au] has quit [Changing host] 03:40:51 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 03:46:34 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:46:55 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:49:29 -!- sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:54:56 claint [~user@88.236.73.130] has joined #lisp 03:55:54 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:52 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:04:51 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:05:35 -!- beach` is now known as beach 04:17:19 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.208.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:17:38 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 04:19:53 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.11] has joined #lisp 04:19:54 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:23:50 kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.74] has joined #lisp 04:23:50 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.74] has quit [Changing host] 04:23:50 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:33:41 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:38:00 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:39:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 04:45:18 gavin0 [~Miranda@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:45:56 -!- gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 04:52:06 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 04:54:36 ? 04:58:04 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.11.86] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:58:38 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:59:14 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.11.86] has joined #lisp 05:03:03 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 05:17:56 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:19:27 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:22:17 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:26:13 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:27:03 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has joined #lisp 05:33:42 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:35:53 -!- srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:36:20 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.11.86] has quit [Quit: Saindo] 05:40:45 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 05:41:16 -!- OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has left #lisp 05:42:49 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:45:56 whats crackin gents 05:47:12 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:49:39 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:54:53 hey gavin0 not much and you ? 05:54:56 i'm just hacking some lisp 05:55:03 brb 05:56:15 sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 05:58:48 manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 06:02:25 :) 06:02:27 cool 06:02:32 just learning more lisp 06:02:43 looking for new sysadmin job 06:03:13 nice! what sort of lisp are you learning 06:03:43 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:04:41 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.180] has joined #lisp 06:09:45 common lisp 06:09:47 clisp 06:10:18 I find that withing lisp things are a breeze. My problems come from interacting with archlinux and files. 06:10:33 ah. 06:10:39 I also have trouble with anything quicklisp does not install automatically. 06:10:46 yes, I used to program in C++ and hated it 06:10:56 within- 06:11:04 now, it's been 5+ years since i touched anything besides lisp 06:11:12 wow 06:11:33 What kinds of programs do you create in lisp? 06:14:57 gavin0: http://blocky.io is my current project 06:15:34 i think there is even a lisp unix shell whose syntax for shell scripting is all lispy. i forget what it's called though. you should check it out :) 06:16:05 -!- bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:18:04 hm, the newer video is not linked from that page, but it's on the blog. 06:19:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-92.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:19:24 dto: scheme shell? scsh 06:19:42 i should try it out 06:19:52 I haven't used it but Lisp syntax doesn't really feel fitting for the shell at all 06:20:16 installing. 06:20:44 it's meant for shell scripts, not as an interactive shell 06:20:49 manuel__ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 06:21:47 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 06:21:47 -!- manuel__ is now known as manuel_ 06:24:24 stassats`: even so, the example on the project's website was enough to make me twitch 06:24:24 -!- sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Investigating the back of my eyelids.] 06:24:40 -!- claint [~user@88.236.73.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:24:41 > (& (| (gunzip) (detex) (spell) (lpr -Ppulp)) (< paper.tex.gz)) 06:24:53 ubii [~ubii@unaffiliated/ubii] has joined #lisp 06:25:12 it's as twitching as the shell syntax 06:25:45 what's twitching about the shell syntax? 06:25:46 gavin0: hi 06:25:54 gavin0: did my webpage bore you to doom 06:26:01 :) 06:26:32 Iceland_jack: you find that snippet twitching, and it uses shell syntax, why do you find it twitching? 06:27:08 brb 06:27:16 games cool, smalltalk very cool, nice 06:27:22 I don't mind the regular shell syntax, but I dislike the scsh syntax 06:27:41 I was trying to figure out why bodybuildingpro.com forum software won't post 9 bodybuilder pics 06:27:44 dumps after 3 06:27:55 gosh some software sucks 06:28:04 I hand code html and its blindingly fast 06:28:29 gavin0: this is off-topic 06:28:40 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 06:28:42 What is a good lisp forum aside from usenet? 06:30:11 pipes in shell do make things easy 06:30:18 scsh is impressive 06:31:02 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 06:35:51 manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 06:40:57 so, I found that a lot of my speed problems were from SBCL's sxhash only going to a depth of 4 when recursing lists, making every single one of my keys have the same hashtable 06:41:28 in my particular context, I can assume no circularities; I copy/pasted the sxhash source and made the cons recursion work without the max-depthoid 06:41:32 how did sxhash got into this? 06:41:34 into my own hash function 06:42:00 stassats`: I have a functional hashtree that I use for mvcc 06:42:14 my keys are checked on #'equal, so sxhash seemed like a good fit 06:43:17 just wondering if there are any other approaches that would be better; I thought about recompiling with a larger depth, but I'd really want it to go full depth, but not break the return-when-circular guarnatee of sxhash for its other purposes 06:44:06 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:44:55 just don't use sxhash 06:45:35 ok, that's effectively what I did (though my hash defers to it for non conses/fixnums/etc) 06:46:04 except for things which are only comparable with EQ 06:46:42 manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 06:50:43 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:51:00 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 06:57:39 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 06:58:15 manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 07:01:46 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 07:02:30 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:06:48 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:10:27 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 07:10:53 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-98.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 07:11:12 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:11:17 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-132.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:11:38 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-132.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 07:12:28 manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 07:13:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-151-98.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:14:14 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 07:14:45 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 07:17:14 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@d221247.adsl.hansenet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:29:01 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 07:31:50 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.11] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:32:40 easyE [pdWJENgO2n@panix2.panix.com] has joined #lisp 07:35:45 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:43:27 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.26.225] has joined #lisp 07:48:20 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has joined #lisp 07:51:43 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:52:09 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:53:13 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:54:16 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has joined #lisp 07:54:35 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has left #lisp 07:54:53 rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 07:55:54 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 07:57:10 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 08:02:43 TeMPOraL [~user@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust444.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 08:03:13 how in lisp do you relate things to other things like a database does? 08:03:23 just make lists of lists of lists? 08:05:15 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:05:39 gavin0: assoc lists, hash tables... depends on how big your data is, I think. 08:16:02 so I could make say poduct price decriptyion related products common purchased product when this product si purchased liek amazon 08:16:11 then make a list of orders 08:16:17 price quantity addresse 08:16:19 list of csutoemrs 08:16:26 seems would not take that much 08:16:48 you can make anything if you employ a technique called "programming" 08:16:54 heh 08:17:18 I wonder how much memory say 100,000 customers and products and oders would take up 08:17:36 probably a few megs excluding jpgs and other pics eh 08:17:36 negligible 08:17:55 all I would need is a URL to the jpeg 08:19:00 then program some computations to tally say total price tax and shipping 08:19:06 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:19:07 and I could envision my own mini amazon 08:19:57 this is fun! 08:24:54 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 08:26:47 http://technoanimal.net/vxp.txt anyone know why my function here would output this? 08:27:02 it takes in a list of paths to pdf files 08:27:19 still trying to track down problems with this running on other people's machines 08:29:37 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 08:32:07 the strange thing is, i got the individual involved to send me his copy of the PDF that caused the error and it worked just fine for me. 08:33:43 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:21 Elench [~user@unaffiliated/elench] has joined #lisp 08:35:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:36:40 dsp_: Was there no other output? You have some PRINTs in there if they didn't fire, that'd be a clue. 08:36:58 they fired on "collect" 08:37:05 -!- benny [~benny@i577A20AE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:37:12 and the filename was printed 08:37:15 and then it died 08:38:33 this guy has had issues with other PDFs too, which led me to add handlers for invalid-utf8-starter-byte, and that meant it got past one PDF which was causing issues, but is now failing on another 08:38:50 someone suspected it was maybe a filesystem issue on his side 08:39:54 Possibly pdfinfo. A pathing error to the subprocess, maybe. 08:42:07 might have identified the individual file, so i'm going to analyse it now, but it's strange that it would blow up. i'm not sure what a pathing error is :( 08:45:01 OK, this is weird. I can run pdfinfo on the file fine, but when I do it from SBCL it fails 08:45:10 Maybe "pathing error" is the wrong term, but I mean like having invalid characters in a path. If the filename has spaces in it, for example, something might be getting confused. Just a guess. 08:47:28 http://technoanimal.net/full-error.txt 08:47:36 removing the error handling produced the following 08:48:50 the same error is given when i rename the file to test.pdf also, so it's the file itself doing it 08:49:10 Ah. 08:49:17 so perhaps it might be pdfinfo spitting out invalid UTF-8? 08:49:44 Possibly. Is it /supposed/ to spit out UTF8, or ASCII? 08:50:06 lord knows. hmm. 08:50:49 the creationdate field it spits out on that file does indeed contain weird characters 08:50:51 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has joined #lisp 08:50:55 CreationDate:  08:51:13 but my terminal handles display fine, for example 08:51:14 According to --help, it has an -enc option. Try calling it with "pdfinfo -enc UTF-8" 08:52:06 ...Bah. Nevermind. UTF-8 is the default. 08:52:40 yeah, same error. 08:53:32 maybe i'll try another CL implementation 08:54:20 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-46-40.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 08:55:32 so i'm tempted to say this is a SBCL bug 08:55:34 CCL works fine 08:56:14 i'll hop over to their # and ask :) thanks a lot borkamaniac 08:56:28 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 08:56:42 Eh, I didn't do much, but you're welcome. ;) 09:02:24 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 09:04:15 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-244-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:04:15 Can anyone suggest a good color theme for lisp hacking? Something with relatively dim parens. 09:04:27 morning 09:05:05 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:05:36 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:05:57 mm. actually high-contrast is quite good. 09:10:28 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:12:37 snobbi [~user@d189068.adsl.hansenet.de] has joined #lisp 09:12:49 quit 09:13:00 -!- snobbi [~user@d189068.adsl.hansenet.de] has left #lisp 09:13:08 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:13:30 benny [~benny@i577A2090.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:14:26 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:20:03 Guthur [~Guthur@host81-151-187-123.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 09:20:15 hi 09:20:16 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:20:19 does anyone here use cedet? 09:21:03 everytime i try to open a lisp file, it gives me a warning/error and i have to open the file again... 09:21:10 the errors: semanticdb-abstract-table: Symbol's function definition is void: semanticdb-refresh-references 09:22:35 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 09:22:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:25:37 -!- ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-bflfddjhvvrfktih] has quit [Quit: Connection closed for inactivity] 09:30:17 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:33:03 urandom__ [~user@p548A5256.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 09:34:26 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 09:37:38 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.77] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:37:44 greaver [~Sarge@41.138.11.188] has joined #lisp 09:38:28 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:46:55 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 09:52:40 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has joined #lisp 10:04:18 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 10:07:46 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:13:22 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has left #lisp 10:17:02 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 10:18:59 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 10:25:00 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5256.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:26:10 urandom__ [~user@p548A5679.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:47 francogrex [~user@109.130.146.96] has joined #lisp 10:33:42 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 10:39:02 npoektop [~npoektop@89.222.174.7] has joined #lisp 10:42:04 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B3F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 10:43:50 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust444.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: bbl] 10:46:12 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:48:04 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 10:51:07 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: JuanDaugherty] 10:51:21 H4ns [57bd723f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.114.63] has joined #lisp 10:53:59 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:56:06 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: oh hell I have to restart Emacs] 10:57:13 lanthan [~ze@p54B7A792.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:19 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 11:01:45 dRbiG [p@bofh.edu.pl] has joined #lisp 11:06:06 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 11:06:25 ska`` [~user@ppp-58-8-32-196.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 11:07:47 journeeman [75d35303@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.211.83.3] has joined #lisp 11:09:48 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-46-40.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:10:04 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 11:10:20 -!- sharps [~hazel@121-72-240-85.cable.telstraclear.net] has left #lisp 11:10:23 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has joined #lisp 11:10:29 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 11:10:35 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:13:04 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.146.96] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 11:14:52 -!- journeeman [75d35303@gateway/web/freenode/ip.117.211.83.3] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 11:15:23 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 11:19:43 yates-1 [~yates@nc-71-54-141-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:48 -!- topeak [~topeak@123.114.132.179] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:02 is there an FTP library for cl? 11:20:11 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 11:20:41 yates-1: cl-ftp is one 11:21:12 pnq [~nick@ACA379F8.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:22:01 Xach: yes, i saw that one - thanks anyway. my query was flawed. 11:22:47 i'm confused - would such an ftp library require an ftp client to already be installed on the host os? 11:22:51 xach is there a way to save all my lisp data to an image a la smalltalk in clisp? 11:23:42 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 11:25:02 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@89.222.174.7] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:27:20 gavin0: how would your life change if the answer was no? or yes? 11:27:24 yates-1: no. 11:27:41 never seen this syntax in a lisp source file (on a line all by itself): #+clisp 11:28:02 yates-1: lisp source is not line-oriented but form-oriented 11:28:16 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:28:47 Xach: right. it is a top-level form 11:29:04 p/o ftp.lisp, btw 11:29:17 just curious - i can just bloody use it 11:29:33 from cl-ftp, that is 11:29:58 does it mean something like "turn on clisp extensions"? 11:30:16 xach I apologize if I said something bad to you in the past. 11:30:17 -!- H4ns [57bd723f@gateway/web/freenode/ip.87.189.114.63] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 11:30:34 No my life would probably not change greatly. 11:31:06 ps: it's hard to google for such things since google doesn't utilize special characters in its search 11:31:30 yates-1: see http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/02_dhq.htm#+ 11:31:49 yates-1: I use http://xach.com/clhs to look those kinds of things up 11:32:07 yates-1: it means approximately "read the following form if :CLISP is in CL:*FEATURES*" 11:32:17 ah. 11:32:19 thank you. 11:32:41 otherwise it skips the next form entirely 11:33:12 yes. so basically it is a "if we are clisp, do the next form" 11:33:33 right, like you've already stated... 11:34:05 thank you 11:34:10 the syntax of #+ and #- expressions can be more involved 11:34:13 nice little web app, btw 11:34:26 is that with hutchentoot? weblocks? 11:34:35 which? 11:34:39 clhs? 11:34:45 yes 11:34:59 that's a php script with a static table of symbols mapping to URLs 11:35:09 http://l1sp.org/ is a hunchentoot application i made 11:35:45 patrice [~user@vzn18-1-88-165-200-27.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 11:35:56 what are the top 3 cl implementations, by popularity? 11:36:03 sbcl, i imagine, is one 11:36:14 is clisp another? 11:36:24 haible's clisp, i.e.? 11:36:29 file:///C:/DOCUME~1/g/LOCALS~1/Temp/thankyoumario.gif 11:36:49 gavin0: that'll never workon the public internet... 11:36:57 sonvoa 11:37:03 eweee, windoze.... 11:37:11 yates-1: SBCL, Clozure CL, and CLISP 11:37:12 sonova 11:37:26 whats that lil embedded lisp called? 11:37:30 elisp? 11:37:35 clozure? 11:37:36 gavin0: that's emacs lisp 11:37:36 In a survey I did, SBCL was used by more thant twice as many people as ClozureCL. 11:37:37 no way 11:37:39 gavin0: ecl. 11:37:44 ah yes 11:38:11 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-162-168.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:38:14 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:38:28 Xach: would it be easy, or even possible, to graft cl-ftp into elisp ? 11:38:44 i really want to access it from an elisp function inside emacs 11:38:44 yates-1: I don't think so. 11:38:53 yates-1: elisp and CL are very different languages. 11:38:53 bummer 11:39:02 what about http://www.cons.org/cmucl/ 11:39:25 yeah, it seems cmucl is a pretty good contender from what i've heard 11:39:43 clisp says it has superior floating point to clisp 11:39:44 gavin0: CMUCL is no longer used by very many people. 11:39:52 why is that? 11:39:58 gavin0: because SBCL came along 11:40:05 cm == carnegie-mellon? 11:40:13 university 11:40:16 SBCL seems to really be the top dawg lately 11:40:27 why is it top daooging over say clisp? 11:40:27 SBCL is the most popular Common Lisp implementation. 11:40:45 is SBCL bsd license? 11:40:49 Xach: what would you suggest as a cross-platform gui toolkit to use with cl? 11:41:14 gtk+ looks interesting, but is anything else around? 11:41:22 somebody mentioned qt too 11:41:39 gavin0: I don't know why other people use it, but I use it because it has threads, compiles to native code that is very fast for numeric computation, runs very well on Linux, and is licensed with a public domain license. 11:41:54 yates-1: what kind of program do you want to write 11:42:09 npoektop [~npoektop@89.222.174.7] has joined #lisp 11:42:12 cliki.net has stuff yates-1 11:42:13 an snmp manager 11:42:17 mcclim for example 11:42:38 yates-1: are you familiar with any non-CL gui libraries? 11:42:49 wxWidgets 11:43:05 There used to be a wxcl, but it is dead as far as I can tell. 11:43:09 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:43:11 Some people seem to be having fun with Commonqt lately. 11:43:45 ok, thanks for the information and your suggestions. 11:44:51 oh yeah, now i remember why i didn't like commonqt: "CommonQt needs: ... Visual C++ (on Windows)." 11:44:58 11:45:16 so i HAVE to buy something? blech. 11:45:37 -!- patrice [~user@vzn18-1-88-165-200-27.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye.] 11:45:42 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:45:54 i wonder if i could do it under cygwin and still use the gnumake/gcc... 11:46:38 yates-1: You could have your employer or customers pay for it. 11:46:52 And you had to buy Windows... 11:47:09 Xach: well, i'm being a turd, really - he already DID buy it - AND i have a copy on my machine. but it's just the idea... 11:47:17 yates-1, emacs will have it's own ftp extension, so not sure what would be gained from grafting cl-ftp, if you could 11:47:45 Guthur: ange-ftp? it is not very functional from what i can see. 11:47:52 how about tk 11:48:32 ltk seems to work nicely. 11:49:03 Guthur: also, the stuff that allows you to access files on other computers isn't a good solution since the files i'll be tranferring can be 100 MB zip (binary) files. 11:49:24 i.e., i wouldn't normally have them open in the editor. 11:50:50 tsuru [~charlie@50.9.237.217] has joined #lisp 11:50:50 for the minimal experience i had with ltk, i found it to be nice. though i haven't done anything remotely complicated with it 11:51:02 the most successful monitoring system I ever saw was big brother run by a network guy who would know before anyone including customers when something was down 11:52:15 clisp and scsh and chicken scheme in cygwin but no sbcl 11:52:17 hmmmmm! 11:52:39 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:53:07 -!- gavin0 [~Miranda@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Miranda IM! Smaller, Faster, Easier. http://miranda-im.org] 11:54:00 Xach, gavin0: thanks for the tk/ltk suggestion - it appears to be just the thing i was looking for 11:55:01 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 11:55:08 gavin0 [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:55:36 Xach, gavin0: thanks for the tk/ltk suggestion - it appears to be just the thing i was looking for 11:58:14 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has joined #lisp 12:00:27 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 12:02:19 Xach: could you confirm that the cffi release in quicklisp does not yet contain the fix related to this bug https://bugs.launchpad.net/cffi/+bug/672586 ? 12:03:04 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:03:10 crunzcrunch [~33@151.75.160.184] has joined #lisp 12:03:37 http://www.cliki.net/GUI 12:04:09 hey guys, is there a way i can define a function lexically within a let, like "(let ( ((symbol-function myfun) (function-that-returns-a-function))) (myfun 1 2)) ? 12:04:15 Kenjin: i don't think it does. 12:04:20 i mean (symbol-function 'myfun) 12:04:28 crunzcrunch: not within a let, but you can do that with FLET or LABELS. 12:04:42 but with labels i must define functions with a lambda form right? 12:04:50 or can i use it to set them to a return value of another function? 12:05:38 crunzcrunch: you could use it to call APPLY or FUNCALL 12:06:12 (let ((fun (function-that-returns-a-function))) (flet ((fun (&rest args) (apply fun args))) ...))))))) 12:06:45 Xach: you just haven't gotten to it yet or is there some other (technical) reason? 12:06:45 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:06:48 so let doesn't have the same abilities of setf? 12:06:52 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 12:06:58 i mean the same possibilities 12:07:35 -!- H4ns` is now known as H3ns 12:07:50 -!- H3ns is now known as H4ns 12:08:01 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:09:33 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has joined #lisp 12:10:44 well i guess it doesn't matter, it works in the way you told me 12:10:47 thank you once again xach 12:11:36 -!- gavin0 [~g@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:14:37 pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:15:11 Kenjin: I? 12:15:18 Kenjin: I'm not in charge of cffi releases. 12:16:06 Xach: I was not suggesting that. Apologies. 12:16:36 gavin0 [~Miranda@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:16:49 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:17:18 Xach: I was asking if perhaps the cffi release was not the latest. Or maybe the fix related to the mentioned bug was commited to another branch that was not yet incorporated in the latest release. 12:17:36 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 12:17:54 As far as I know, I'm using the latest released version of cffi and they have not released since that fix was committed. 12:18:11 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-94-185.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:18:35 I'm not sure if cffi is maintained any more 12:20:06 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:23:40 say it's not so 12:24:01 has something replaced cffi 12:24:03 -!- pchrist_ [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 12:24:38 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 12:25:10 maybe it was just finished and didn't need anymore updates 12:25:14 Xach: Ok. I was not aware there was no new release since the fix 12:25:35 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:25:35 I'm just going to pull the changes myself :) 12:28:18 McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.222.244] has joined #lisp 12:29:44 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:29:53 gffa [~gffa@5249FBAA.cm-4-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has joined #lisp 12:29:53 is there an alternative aside from cffi which ought to be used now? 12:30:26 -!- gffa [~gffa@5249FBAA.cm-4-2d.dynamic.ziggo.nl] has quit [Changing host] 12:30:26 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 12:31:03 cffi is still the most-maintained cross-platform ffi for common lisp 12:31:10 madnificent: my issue was just with uffi-compat. About a fix that was commited but not yet included in a new release 12:31:28 I have string (foo bar). How to convert it to list (foo bar)? 12:31:51 otwieracz: you could use read-from-string 12:31:59 <_8david> I was about to say -- just because cffi-uffi-compat has bugs doesn't imply that cffi isn't maintained. 12:32:10 otwieracz: do not use it if the string is from untrusted sources. 12:34:23 <_8david> (in retrospect, it was a mistake to default to cffi-uffi-compat in clbuild. Surely ql isn't making the same mistake (?).) 12:35:15 _8david, I think the reason for the unmaintained comment is the fact that the last release was august 2010 12:35:25 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-74-94.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:35:29 No, I don't use cffi-uffi-compat in quicklisp. 12:35:32 though there has been some work on the dev branch recently 12:35:37 Because it isn't uffi-compat. 12:38:25 -!- cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has left #lisp 12:38:47 <_8david> I'm surprised; fe[nl]ix is usually someone who releases in tarball form actively. 12:38:57 <_8david> Unlike certain xml lib "maintainers". 12:39:33 I always forget this key combo....How does one show the entire contents of the mini-buffer 12:39:59 so that I can see all the parameters of a function shown by slime 12:40:53 I use vi and clisp. 12:41:03 emacs is too much for my tiny brain organ 12:41:26 ah found it 12:41:42 Why can't lisp programs be distributed as tat gzip text files. 12:41:46 tra- 12:41:46 C-c C-d A 12:41:47 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 12:42:26 and if there is some c component put that into a /bin dir of soem sort the text file includes path to and loads path to? 12:42:32 why all this complex install apps crap 12:42:39 Guthur: could t find it either 12:42:45 I thoughu jsut load darn file into lisp adn then get 100 new fancy functions 12:42:48 gavin0, yep one has to constantly push to ensure it stays big enough 12:42:59 s/could t/couldn't 12:43:23 what stays big enuf? 12:43:47 gavin0, the brain organ 12:44:19 gavin0: go away 12:45:30 -!- jrockway [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 12:46:28 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:46:35 jrockway [~jrockway@2600:3c00::f03c:91ff:fe93:50b0] has joined #lisp 12:47:48 -!- billstcalir [~billstcla@p-209-105-142-11.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:48:34 Xach: it's just awesome how friendly people become when they express their feelings as actions. 12:58:28 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 13:00:59 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:04:38 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 13:05:03 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.161.87] has joined #lisp 13:05:34 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA379F8.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:09:55 -!- McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.222.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:59 I am curious not trollin 13:17:43 pnq [~nick@172.129.99.85] has joined #lisp 13:18:23 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 13:19:35 rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-116-4.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has joined #lisp 13:20:29 kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-255-32.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:25:09 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d069188.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 13:27:47 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:29:23 explain to me why you need quicklisp etc if lisp programs are code in text files? unless there are compiled c components, and if so why can not the c component be sourced from the code in the text file? 13:29:39 (load "somefile") 13:30:14 gavin0: look at some Lisp projects to find out why they are multiple files. 13:32:15 *_3b* has ~4k .lisp files loadable by asdf... i'd really rather not type LOAD that many times 13:32:29 gavin0: and if you want to reuse someone else's work, you need to figure out how to do that. asdf helps with expressing those relationships and quicklisp helps fetching the requirements. 13:32:54 asdf is used by quicklisp? 13:33:02 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 13:33:02 yes. 13:33:04 _8david: ping 13:33:16 bows to both for enlightening me 13:34:05 rbuck [~rbuck@mobile-198-228-199-089.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 13:34:14 -!- greaver [~Sarge@41.138.11.188] has left #lisp 13:34:47 <_3b> quicklisp also makes it much easier to make thinsg available for other people to use, one command and the code is loaded with all dependencies, instead of having to explain a big list of libs to download, files to load in the right order, etc 13:40:31 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.99.85] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:44:08 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.26.225] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 13:44:25 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:49:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:50:13 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-216-243.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 13:51:28 alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 13:51:40 hello, is anybody expert in color theory ? 13:52:13 -!- ^ThE_UniX_GuY^ [~bsdboy@ggn.ixigo.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:53:05 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:53:27 rolando [~user@115.59.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 13:54:17 -!- ska`` [~user@ppp-58-8-32-196.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:59:14 i like and use quicklisp 13:59:31 kiuma: what sort of question do you have? 14:00:12 yates-1, does harmonies apply to CMY color model too ? 14:02:07 kiuma: as far as i know, CMYK, RGB, etc., are ways to REPRESENT color, so a concept like color harmony, which is about color itself, is independent of representation 14:02:52 sorta like asking if being in the inside unit circle of the complex plane works for polar as well as rectangular coordinates. 14:04:37 yates-1, I've created this, but I'm not sure if it's correct for harmonies (that as far as I know are calculated into a RYB circle) 14:06:40 http://www.wingstech.it/kiuma/dojo/dojo-release-1.6.1-src/dojox/widget/tests/test_Wheel.html 14:06:51 etrt [~Ez@213.163.65.50] has joined #lisp 14:07:18 kiuma: perhaps a better group would be #gimp 14:07:53 -!- crunzcrunch [~33@151.75.160.184] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 14:08:54 yates-1, I'll continue on it then 14:09:09 but it doesn't seem so active 14:09:14 this article mentions rgb vs. cmy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Color_wheel 14:10:11 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:11:04 OliverUv [fuckident@69.70.212.98] has joined #lisp 14:14:02 jdz [~jdz@host39-57-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 14:15:12 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 14:16:49 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 14:17:40 kiuma: if you want to do proper color calculations, you probably need to work with Lab or similar colour systems, and then transform results to target colour representation 14:19:23 p_l|backup, so it doesn't make much sense to apply harmonies on a CMY color wheel, does it ? 14:20:24 kiuma: not if you're doing serious calculations 14:20:36 you'd probably need to factor colour profiles too 14:21:16 ... eh, seems like my manual searches are better than QPX nowadays :/ 14:24:39 "manual" 14:24:41 ? 14:25:06 fe[nl]ix: Manually visit pages of various airlines and check flights 14:25:44 that was always the case, that some airlines offer better prices on their own sites 14:25:59 DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.153.152] has joined #lisp 14:26:25 the convenience of a search engine is that it's centralized, for which you pay 14:26:55 yeah 14:27:29 -!- DelPuerto [~youguy@90.162.153.152] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:38 I think I'll go with KLM. Wizzair might be cheaper but I don't like going by Scotrail... 14:27:56 *Xach* took KLM 14:28:24 funny thing - QPX seems to not have found my flight altogether 14:29:09 p_l|backup: airlines do not publish all their fares, and they also don't publish availability to third parties in the same way that they publish to their own sales system. 14:29:42 H4ns: I suspected so 14:30:18 though it would be fun to get access to KLM/AirFrance information system... need an IBM 3270 terminal to do so x 14:33:22 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:34:03 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:35:31 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.161.87] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:36:13 airfrance was running win16 fortran / C app as their scheduling system 14:36:17 at least around 5 yearss ago 14:36:21 it was horrible 14:36:23 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.161.87] has joined #lisp 14:36:45 *maxm* had to install VC 4.5 compiler to hack on it 14:37:06 maxm: you worked on it ? 14:37:09 yup 14:40:53 -!- rbuck [~rbuck@mobile-198-228-199-089.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: rbuck gone away...] 14:41:01 maxm: maybe for scheduling. I know that their booking system these days (and probably more) runs on z/TPF 14:41:37 (found about it by looking over the shoulders of the rep who did my rebooking and frequent flyer card) 14:41:50 large airlines typically have all sorts of systems, old and new, that often revolve a core booking system written in assembler. 14:41:58 revolve _around_ 14:42:44 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:43:17 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 14:43:25 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:44:32 p_l|backup: yea usually scheduling/passanager sides are not that connected, and run by diff departments 14:45:19 they may share flight updates source (ie oooi times) 14:45:37 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:46:13 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 14:47:26 there's a project to introduce some level of airlines' infrastructure for GA flights (air taxi etc.) 14:47:42 at least for EU 14:48:00 quite big on internet access and the like 14:48:38 hipmonk.com is lisp powered airline pricer 14:48:57 -!- gavin0 [~Miranda@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:06 *maxm* has a project to get back into the area now that my non-competition will run-out soon 14:49:38 but if I ever want to hire coders, CL is a no-go probably :-\ 14:49:45 maxm: why? 14:50:01 pnq [~nick@AC826C85.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:16 gavin0: Hipmunk uses QPX  or is the rest of it also written in Lisp? 14:50:22 plus airlines always want source and/or whats its called, when outside company holds the source and verifies that it builds and stuff, in case you go under... Escrow? 14:51:02 maxm: Yeah, escrow. 14:51:22 otherwise if lets say you go under, airline will be stuck with lisp sources, and no in-house IT expertise to hack on them.. Airlines want to feel comfortable that in the worst case, they have source and can use in-house IT resources to continue running their system 14:52:12 maxm: work as outside service? 14:52:59 also, Airlines can easily arrange a team of consultants (the rates aren't so bad for them...) 14:53:21 *maxm* worked in the industry since 2000 or so, stories I can tell 14:54:45 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@net-2-32-116-4.cust.dsl.teletu.it] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:55:43 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:52 heh. hipmunk found a flight for me at 150% the price 14:55:55 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-54-19.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:58:18 like in any industry, to sell lisp to an airline, you'll need a lisp lover in the organization that you want to sell to. 14:58:46 might be worth checking whether any swissair guys are still in business and in higher positions. 14:59:45 yea but you can't bet your future life/earnings on a chance like that.. If you are writing web startup then yea, or my current charting system project 15:00:04 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 15:00:05 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:00:13 my airline related leads probably don't need that - If I actually went for it, the question would be "why it isn't written in Ada?", not Java or similar :D 15:00:16 so if I go back into industry to develop a product, it will be standard c++/java stuff 15:00:33 i have been running on lisp projects for quite some time, but it is not always pleasant. 15:00:55 and i'm not even sure if i hate the non-believers more than the smug lisp wheenies that reject anything else. 15:01:04 SBCL is frustruting a bit, recently quality had gone up, but there are still bugs where you go like "wtf is going on"- 15:01:24 which show up under heavy load/multithreading etc... 15:01:33 -!- rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:02:11 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:02:18 maxm: i guess this will finally improve with the new funding. until then, i'm not making use of the still-experimental threading feature that sbcl has. 15:02:24 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.146] has joined #lisp 15:02:42 maxm: there are plenty of lispers for hire 15:03:11 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:05:48 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:13:56 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:14:50 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 15:18:46 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:18:51 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:19:41 telemyst [~MLPFiM@gateway/tor-sasl/frendshipismagic] has joined #lisp 15:20:22 Bike [~Glossina@71-214-106-243.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:21:12 *Xach* gets cl-mssql working on OS X 15:22:10 is it true nobodt knows where lisp came from int he first place? 15:22:11 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:22:32 telemyst: no 15:22:45 my friend says lisp is made in lisp 15:23:21 which is made in lisp... made in lisp.... ? so its infinite? 15:23:42 And C is usually implemented in C, but we still know the circumstances of its invention. Recursive base case, you know. 15:23:52 every lisp has a core of about 12 special operators that are used as primitives defined in C or in the olds days, ASM. 15:24:43 telemyst: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bootstrapping_(compilers) 15:25:09 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:25:21 actually, aren't those primitives defined in lisp-based macro assembler these days? with C used mainly for runtime support? 15:25:39 (unless it's ECL, GCL or CLISP) 15:25:45 could be; i'm no low level compiler hacker. 15:26:30 but sbcl, forex, still uses gcc in the bootstrap process.. so I thought it was to build and link the primitives. 15:26:43 ikki [~ikki@189.139.219.159] has joined #lisp 15:26:51 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.11] has joined #lisp 15:27:30 Fade: nope, SBCL uses C for runtime support. Lisp primitives are defined through VOPs, that's why SBCL needs another CL to bootstrap 15:27:55 theoretically, you could get rid of the C runtime part too, but it would be at least partially annoying 15:28:36 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 15:29:02 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 15:29:28 (given how many popular OSes these days provide API definitions in form of C headers... Why they can't be like VMS??) 15:29:41 -!- pnq [~nick@AC826C85.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:30:05 ccl defines 'lisp-kernel' as a C system. 15:30:31 -!- npoektop [~npoektop@89.222.174.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:30:39 pnq [~nick@AC826C85.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:30:48 which seems to be mostly GC and image support. 15:32:00 In both cases, I believe one could eliminate the C portion if one were so inclined. 15:32:06 why is lisp okay if circular logic is wrong 15:32:16 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 15:32:21 C is more practical however. 15:32:23 telemyst: it's not circular logic 15:32:38 telemyst: look at the link Xach pasted. 15:32:45 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:33:27 Why do people seem amazed and confused by the idea that CL is commonly implemented in CL, but C implemented in C is unremarkable? 15:33:48 couldnt the system rip itself apart? or become conscious? 15:33:52 joshe: they don't think 15:33:54 telemyst: nope 15:34:10 Lisps make a bigger deal of it, I guess? "metacircularity" and "homoiconicity" and all. 15:34:17 imagine a snake swalloing its tail 15:34:30 telemyst: you're thinking of it like magic is to mundane 15:35:23 telemyst: you need to learn and understand. until then, you need to believe what these guys tell you. they are right. 15:36:02 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:21 nothing (= 0 or the circle) can come into existence by itself. the Ying and Yang particle/antiparticle, does lisp have a positive and negative sense? 15:37:30 omg 15:37:53 stop feeding the troll people 15:37:55 telemyst: You appear to be gibbering. 15:37:57 hi folks 15:38:00 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:38:14 so my `bug' was reported as invalid: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/840190 15:39:13 telemyst: it didn't come from nothing by itself. it was built piece by piece till it could be described in itself (that's what "bootstrapping" means in compilers) 15:39:23 i'm still not sure what the proper workaround is though 15:39:50 p_l|backup, I get the feeling he doesn't really want to understand the principle 15:40:05 (i also don't know why it works correctly with CCL, but not SBCL) 15:40:36 dsp_: You got two suggestions in the bug response. 15:40:45 -!- pnq [~nick@AC826C85.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:40:46 three, even. 15:41:04 yeah, but I'm not a good CL person 15:41:13 dsp_: then become one. 15:41:29 Guthur: heh. True 15:41:33 unhelpful 15:42:01 dsp_: no, really. you have a problem with your program. do you want to learn how to solve it? or do you want to have someone else solve it for you? 15:42:04 I wonder if I can get people at Uni to add CL to Aberdeen Software Factory (it's a Java/Ruby shop for now) 15:42:14 Guthur: we seem to have an awful lot of those these days 15:42:27 duck trolls 15:42:44 in this case, preferably the latter, considering i've spent 2 days on what should be a trivial matter already with something that already works with another CL implementation 15:43:10 dsp_: you can try to learn (M-. is your friend in code exploration), or pay someone. 15:43:22 dsp_: ok, so you need to hire a consultant, apparently, as noone seems to want to fix the problem for you for free. 15:43:43 I want to! dsp_: pass :external-format to run-program. 15:43:59 hey, a samaritan! 15:44:12 dsp_: the advice in the bugreport is good. try a different external format when you open the stream, or catch the condition that drops you int he debugger and continue. 15:44:15 but that is what it said in the comments and he didn't understand 15:44:26 the stream output should be utf-8 though, is what I don't understand 15:44:31 so would stand to reason it's not going help now either, hehe 15:44:34 Guthur: maybe it is the extra hand holding that he needs. 15:46:36 dsp_: the difference is that CCL probably ignores erroneus coding in output from pdfinfo 15:46:38 dsp_: looks like it is not outputting valid utf-8. 15:46:58 dsp_: if you want to keep it UTF-8, add a restart that will substitute the value. 15:46:58 Xach: yeah, I got that much, so I thought, I know, I'll catch that error and return NIL 15:47:23 i don't actually want to process the broken PDF at all. if the output is bad, just ignore it and move to the next 15:47:41 p_l|backup's solution sounds acceptable to me. the output is nonsensical anyways 15:47:45 dsp_: did you try wrapping your call in a handler-case, as i have suggested? 15:47:53 i then get a simple-error 15:47:59 dsp_: interesting catch would be to use flexi-streams instead of w-o-t-s, and change coding in handler 15:48:02 that was the first thing i tried, way before submitting the report 15:48:04 or H4ns's, if that's the origin 15:48:10 (with-simple-restart ...) will probably do what you want in the least code. 15:48:22 dsp_: what do you mean when you say that you "get a simple-error"? 15:48:29 Zhivago 15:48:52 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/840190 has the error 15:49:03 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:07 when i use handler-case, the UTF8 invalid coding one isn't there of course 15:49:16 "EvalApply is written, inside a ying-yang logo" 15:49:23 but the simple-error one with non-empty buffer is given 15:49:47 now, maybe i am not using handler-case correctly 15:49:54 dsp_: ok. so you said that you want to catch errors and continue with the next file. what prevents you from wrapping your call in a handler-case, and continue with the next file when you caught an error? 15:50:31 I was right 15:50:40 https://gist.github.com/900be290a775819fef90 15:50:45 this is the actual function i use 15:51:13 where i believe i am using handler-case correctly to return NIL in case of hitting the invalid utf8 starter byte condition 15:51:23 (though maybe this is my mistake) 15:51:36 is the condition not signaled? 15:51:36 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-23-154.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 15:51:52 try setting *break-on-signals* to 'SB-IMPL::INVALID-UTF8-STARTER-BYTE and run your code 15:52:08 if that _is_ the condition that is signaled, you'll be sent to the debugger. 15:52:22 ericklc [~ikki@189.247.100.10] has joined #lisp 15:52:31 -!- ericklc [~ikki@189.247.100.10] has quit [Client Quit] 15:52:41 dsp_: btw, the indentation of your code makes it hard to read 15:52:48 really? 15:53:05 i don't know standardised intendation for CL 15:53:15 dsp_: use emacs, it indents well automatically. 15:54:26 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-132.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:54:36 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-132.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:55:27 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.219.159] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:55:30 emacs seemed to output much the same for me -_- 15:55:52 anyway, not getting drawn into such holy wars. going to try your suggestion now 15:55:53 can anyone here me? 15:56:20 dsp_: "much the same" is not the same as "the same" 15:56:23 telemyst: it's a bit of inside joke. Lisp started life as a thought device... then one student came to McCarthy and said "look, if I implement EVAL in assembler, I'll have a working lisp" 15:56:24 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-98-69.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:57:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-132.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:57:58 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-132.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 15:58:15 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:58:46 cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has joined #lisp 15:58:46 -!- cfy [~cfy@122.228.135.216] has quit [Changing host] 15:58:46 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 16:00:47 https://gist.github.com/00988d6e2eb13075181a 16:01:13 so, yes, it is that condition 16:01:41 but there's also the other condition below it, a 'simple-error' 16:01:51 which is what i get if i do not break-on-signals 16:01:55 p_l|backup: you shouldn't have told him. only real lispers should know that! 16:02:12 and wrapping simple-error condition seems overkill 16:02:41 dsp_: have you thought about using the provided restart-case? 16:03:40 no, although i think it makes sense for me to understand why this is happening first before trying to fix it :/ 16:04:29 dsp_: it seems as if one error is signaled in the parent process and one in the child. 16:04:50 dsp_: (at least from looking at the static output that you've provided0 16:05:07 sbcl's run-program is definitely screwy, it changes some global vars 16:05:18 like you take dsp_'s example, it runs fine 16:05:34 you add :external-format: utf-8, it gives utf-8 encoding error 16:05:56 you change it back to :default, or :latin-1, but now run-program had stopped working completyl 16:06:10 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:06:12 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 16:06:14 it gives error stream is already closed when trying to write to string stream 16:06:27 only way to get out of the problem is to restart, killing slime repl thread won't fix 16:07:17 in fact any kind of condition, signalled doing the run-program with wait: t, while inside of with-output-to-string, screws up run-program irrevocably 16:07:32 pnq [~nick@AC82DF04.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 16:07:48 for some reason, i've always avoided running external programs from lisp. not that this is helpful for dsp_ :) 16:08:15 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 16:08:41 -!- scrimohsin [~csimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 16:08:47 i'm less concerned about it when it works fine in CCL, but from what i can see it _should_ work, since i'm handling the utf8 error (i think, correctly). just that something else is screwing up 16:08:57 which is why i filed a bug report, and have been continuing trying to get it working 16:08:58 dsp_: if i were you, i'd use ccl. 16:08:59 I want to talk about my idea 16:09:15 dsp_: or use (ignore-errors) 16:09:40 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:09:46 H4ns: yeah, well, of course. but if there is a problem with SBCL, i'd like to at least confirm it and file a report 16:09:55 mine was already closed as invalid though 16:10:01 dsp_: you've done so and got your reply. 16:10:06 telemyst: ironically, while this is a meta programming programming language channel, we don't like meta questions on irc. Just tell or ask what you have to tell or ask. 16:10:11 (with-output-to-string (s) 16:10:11 (run-program "date" nil :search t)) 16:10:12 -!- rolando [~user@115.59.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:10:12 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:10:17 H4ns: yeah, but is it not a bug? 16:10:21 theoretically, a hyperintelligent alien race could construct a circlcular language from nothing and beam it into the internert.. once humanity is programming it there thinking will evolve and explode like the origin of language itself, again 16:10:25 there may be a different bug, of course. But getting an error because your stream that you asked to be converted to utf-8 isn't in fact utf-8 is not a bug 16:10:34 does not work, gives "non-empty buffer when EOF reached while reading from child" 16:10:42 this is while its screwed 16:10:42 telemyst: you should discuss that somewhere else. 16:10:49 Kryztof: the other error is right there in the bug report, too 16:11:02 the stack trace always has sub-serve-event it it btw 16:11:05 Well, unless the alien race is sending a lisp quine to do that... 16:11:06 Kryztof: in fact, i only removed the handler-case so that i were not removing useful information 16:11:10 where? #ufo is just making fun o me 16:11:17 or potentially useful information 16:11:22 scrimohsin [~csimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 16:11:24 telemyst: #lispcafe could do. 16:11:30 dsp_: it might be, but if the sbcl maintainers think it is not a bug, or that the bug report is not specific enough to handle the problem, that is something you need to accept, too. 16:12:10 rolando [~user@115.59.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 16:12:33 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:13:32 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:53 in fact i know whats going on 16:14:18 I think run-program installs some hooks into SBCL fd handlers, to do encoding/decoding 16:14:35 but apparently run-program gets repeated fd's on separate run-programs 16:14:39 and old handler is still there 16:15:01 maxm: it's not impossible that unwinding at that point might do Bad Things 16:15:07 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:15:33 dsp_: ok, I may have closed too hastily. 16:15:45 Kryztof: ah, i didn't know it was you to be fair 16:16:26 and i appreciate that developer time isn't free. as i said, it's not a big issue for me since i can use another implementation anyway. i only intended to be helpful 16:17:32 ok there are global vars *close-on-parent* and *close-on-errors* 16:17:58 which contains the FD of the pipe that run-program uses 16:18:50 hmm they are nil, so not that 16:19:05 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:20:29 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:20:31 McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.222.244] has joined #lisp 16:20:50 -!- McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.222.244] has quit [Client Quit] 16:22:34 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:22 aha sb-impl::*descriptor-handlers* is full of bad descriptors 16:23:28 apparently that is not getting cleaned up 16:23:38 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:23:42 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:23:53 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.11] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:23:57 ok, the fix for the screwed up (run-program is) (setq sb-impl::*descriptor-handlers* niL)) 16:24:11 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.11] has joined #lisp 16:24:43 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-98-69.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 16:26:55 maxm: my sb-impl::*descriptor-handlers* is nil by default 16:27:13 or do you mean from within the function? 16:27:16 dsp: run-program adds to it when you give it :output param 16:27:22 it removes it when everything ends well 16:27:24 aha 16:27:32 when there is an error, it forgets to remove it 16:27:49 so closed stream remains in there forever, causing any subsequent run-programs to behave weird 16:27:55 makes sense 16:29:24 there is even code to clean-up, it says ;;; list of handlers installed by RUN-PROGRAM. FIXME: nothing seems 16:29:24 ;;; to set this. 16:29:24 16:30:07 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:06 dsp_: does asdf:run-shell-command work? 16:32:48 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 16:33:13 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:34:00 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 16:34:03 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.146] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 16:37:26 markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 16:37:29 Fade: just trying to figure out how to bind an output stream now 16:38:19 I'm looking at the code for run-program in sbcl... it's a hairly little function. 16:38:24 s/ly/y 16:42:37 Fade: actually, i seem to get teh same error 16:42:56 let me just do another cleaner example to confirm 16:43:06 then again, perhaps asdf:run-shell-command uses the same function internally? 16:43:46 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:43:54 of course. run-shell-command conditionalises #+sbcl to call run-program. 16:44:01 sorry. 16:44:07 no problem :) 16:44:10 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 16:45:52 run-program defines a raft of local macros using macrolet with "with-..." names, none of which seem to clean up after themselves. 16:46:35 the basic problem is that a) it calls add-fd-handler 16:46:51 the cleanup code to remove-fd-handler is in the handler itself, when it sees EOF 16:47:16 so in case of unwind (when handler never sees eof), the handler for that file descriptor remains in *descriptor-handlers* 16:48:13 whats worse, next run-program gets the same handle number, so now you have 2 handlers on same file descriptor, with 1st one completly confused, and holding references to 1st instance of (run-program) and its arguments (which are already out of dynamic scope and unwound) 16:50:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:50:49 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-102.static.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:55:09 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:56:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:23 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-40-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 16:58:44 that looks correct. 17:00:51 ok I had fixed it 17:01:36 but of course i need to submit testcase and shit, and to do testcase I need to find out how to generate bad utf-8 with perl or something 17:02:52 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 17:03:18 I guess you could ask dsp for his file. :) 17:03:23 it's attached to the report 17:03:41 I'll just capture its output and hexl it 17:03:43 alternatively i can send you the redirected output of pdfinfo, which seems to also do the trick 17:03:47 yeah. 17:04:07 but it does not fix your problem with utf-8 handler not accepting relpalcement restart 17:04:22 but it fixes the run-program being confused by errors 17:04:50 hmm my SBCL is 1.0.48, will be funny if its already fixed upstream 17:05:10 nope 17:10:19 actually your thing started working 17:10:26 I can specify 2 replacement chars, and it outputs 17:10:51 yup 17:11:19 nice :) 17:11:40 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 17:12:32 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 17:15:39 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:17:30 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.131] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:17:53 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.131] has joined #lisp 17:23:30 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:23:40 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.131] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 17:27:12 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:27:33 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 17:27:41 how can i run just 1 test? I added the test to run-program.inpure.lisp 17:27:50 TeMPOraL [~user@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust444.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 17:27:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 17:28:41 sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has joined #lisp 17:31:28 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:33:50 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:37:12 -!- ehu changed the topic of #lisp to: Common Lisp, the #1=(programmable . #1#) programming language . New: ABCL 0.27.0, usocket 0.5.3, SBCL 1.0.51, anaphora 0.9.4, SBCL officially in Git, slime-indentation changes in CVS 17:37:41 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:24 yay 17:38:27 whoever maintains sbcl news should really use rss or similar :( 17:38:42 oGMo: planet sbcl has rss 17:38:44 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 17:38:53 hrm 17:38:57 That would not be very difficult, actually. 17:38:58 *maxm* hopes slam.sh works 17:39:04 maxm: why? 17:39:12 An rss feed is just an xml file, right? 17:39:13 meh it did not 17:39:35 coz its kind of crazy doing full rebuild after changing 1 function 17:40:00 joshe: yes 17:40:31 nice, planet sbcl .. find something new every day 17:40:41 -!- buguldey [~buguldey@client-64-4.sibtele.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:40:50 *joshe* considers changing sbcl-page to generate an rss feed. 17:42:56 Simul` [~user@97-93-224-156.dhcp.ftwo.tx.charter.com] has joined #lisp 17:46:02 that would be sweet 17:46:41 -!- pnq [~nick@AC82DF04.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:48:41 pnq [~nick@ACA216D7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:48:45 it would need a generic rewrite to update how it works... 17:52:24 meh 17:52:26 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 17:52:38 any chance of migrating sb-int:positive-primep into sb-ext? or, why is it in sb-int in the first place? 17:52:45 now I'm suddenly without sbcl, slam.sh screwed my 1.0.48 17:52:56 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 17:53:24 ok, I'll rebuild 1.0.51 one, did make.sh there, but it gives me can't load .core for different runtime, sorry 17:53:26 wtf? 17:55:43 could you create anything in lisp 17:56:41 how do i give make.sh a cross-compiler? 17:57:55 You are trying to bootstrap sbcl with a host lisp on another machine? 18:04:00 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:05:18 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:07:46 no I screwed up my sbcl, so have to download binary and give it to make.sh.. Its no prob I just changed the symbolic link 18:10:26 -!- alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:12:12 alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 18:16:10 killerboy [~mateusz@users69.kollegienet.dk] has joined #lisp 18:17:30 -!- Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 18:20:02 hmm slam.sh still does not work 18:20:17 from build.log target features *SHEBANG-FEATURES*=(:SB-AFTER-XC-CORE 18:20:26 but slam.sh drops me into ldb 18:20:42 Xach [~xach@pdpc/supporter/professional/xach] has joined #lisp 18:21:14 man I'll just patch inline and re-save image or something from now on, hopefully save-lisp-and-die is not broken 18:24:04 -!- JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: reboot this desktop] 18:29:56 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:30:31 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 18:30:34 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust444.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:33:54 Hello Dragons! 18:34:41 anyone have any insight as to why the spec chose CL:MACHINE- for symbol names instead of HOST-? 18:34:51 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-96-233.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 18:37:23 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:37:45 *Xach* realizes his wigflip slime setup is 5 years old 18:38:22 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 18:41:28 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:43:54 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:43:56 ok patch sent to sbcl-devel 18:44:33 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 18:44:49 graylisted so will appear in 20/30 mins 18:49:09 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:50:23 -!- etrt [~Ez@213.163.65.50] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:51:57 mon_key: it probably comes from the fact that "host" was only for networked machines? 18:52:03 -!- telemyst [~MLPFiM@gateway/tor-sasl/frendshipismagic] has quit [Quit: quit] 18:52:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:52:51 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA216D7.ipt.aol.com] has left #lisp 18:52:54 pnq [~nick@ACA216D7.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 18:53:09 ... shit. I need to recompile my emacs, Arch managed to screw up theirs 18:53:32 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:53:48 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:54:43 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 18:56:49 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Client Quit] 18:58:05 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:58:36 man time to get back to coding my own, sometimes improving one's tools gets addictive... /me finished fixing up Egg to correctly maintain hidden/visible/point position when you stage/unstage hunks, and fixed sbcl bug, that should be enough for today 18:59:12 Guthur_ [~Guthur@host86-148-166-193.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 18:59:12 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 18:59:19 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:59:31 the Egg thing is actually interesting coz hunk line/numbers and ranges change as you stage/unstage them, so its tricky to calculate line number that patch will apply two, if only 2 out of 6 hunks are tsaged 18:59:57 next on todo list, learn to type 19:00:53 p_l|backup: yeah, I'm thinking it was carryover from CLTL1 when networked machines were less prevalent. 19:01:21 Guthur__ [~Guthur@host86-148-185-59.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:24 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host81-151-187-123.range81-151.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:01:26 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 19:03:54 -!- Guthur_ [~Guthur@host86-148-166-193.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:09:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:12:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-35-241.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 19:12:46 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-35-241.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 19:12:46 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 19:14:00 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 19:15:16 mon_key: I think it's actually more related to the fact that there's "long-site-name" ;) 19:17:12 so, for example, you could have long-site-name="MIT AI Lab" and machine-instance="MC" 19:17:22 p_l|backup: likely those will be deprecated in CLTL3 19:17:32 mon_key: I don't see the need 19:17:48 to deprecate? 19:17:51 actually, I'm considering using them in some of my code 19:18:00 I do use them. 19:18:11 pjb: cool! what is the use case? 19:19:06 Slime with tramp uses machine-instance, at least. 19:19:08 mon_key: I had some idea of expanding the amount of available data like this, including automatic gathering of such information from OS, to be used in my "application harness" 19:20:02 mon_key: use messages. 19:20:05 user messages 19:20:18 I get the need for MACHINE-INSTANCE, MACHINE-TYPE, MACHINE-VERSION but not S-S-N L-S-N (at least not per the spec) 19:20:50 mon_key: S-S-N and L-S-N aren't useful much on single machine case 19:21:04 but in a bigger install? yes 19:21:27 pjb: (format user-msg-stream "at site ~S -- caught foo" (long-site-name)) ??? 19:21:34 for example 19:22:29 mon_key: "site" is organization-level (for example, specific datacenter, office, etc.), machine refers to specific machine only 19:24:19 Now, of course, (short-site-name) could report the GPS position of your personal laptop... 19:24:55 p_l|backup: I understand the context but in the absence of a networked environment how would "site" info be meaningfull and given a networked enviroement it seems like alot more would be needed to reliably resolve a "site". 19:25:44 mon_key: in the absence of a network, you usually have line printer and physical paper output produced from them. If you want to check the hardware that produced some strange output, you need to know where it is. 19:25:53 mon_key: I don't understand why it is not obvious. 19:26:52 mon_key: also, the term host came mostly with always-on connections 19:27:03 that doesn't mean there were no networks 19:27:29 in fact, "site" was often "network node" (think BGP Autonomous System) 19:27:49 And comcputers used to have (administrative) names irrelevant to the name of their network interface. 19:28:09 mon_key: I assume you know that FQDN name only interfaces, not computers... 19:29:23 pjb: It is mostly -- it just seems like one of those areas of the spec where the utility of portability falls over in lieu of the "Affected By:" clause... 19:29:24 actually, FQDNs are more of "administratively-chosen endpoints in a network". Good practice is to name machines in a completely unrelated way 19:30:37 pjb: That is my point how does one FQDN a the site-name in the abscence of a networked environment FSVO "networked"? 19:31:13 That's my point. {long,short}-site-name have nothing to do with any network interace name. 19:31:37 So, the question, is what name did you give to your computer? 19:31:43 mon_key: "site name" is the "human" name for the area 19:32:06 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:10 for example, "MIT AI Lab", "Symbolics Main Office", etc ;) 19:32:38 pjb: i have a petname for her but DHCP/mac-address etc. refer to her differently 19:32:45 And again, remember that not all computers hold in a match box! 19:33:29 Notably, the computers that can run smart AI such as implemented in Lisp, they're probably not your phone. 19:33:49 pjb: like a connection-machine 19:34:48 mon_key: an example of a "site" would be your whole house, containing all machines in it 19:35:28 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA216D7.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 19:35:31 me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-177-51.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:16 So you could configure (short-site-name) --> "Monkey's Residence" and (long-site-name) --> "Monkey's Residence, Green Terracce Av. Springfield" 19:39:45 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 19:40:14 p_l|backup: Sure, I get that. What i don't get is that spec lets me define sites but doesn't prescribe or reference any standard (normative or otherwise) for their possible usage. 19:41:24 Well, usually it's obvious that if you're at the MIT AI Lab, the site name is "MIT AI Lab", and not the "UC Berkeley Lab"... 19:41:37 ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-32-196.revip2.asianet.co.th] has joined #lisp 19:41:41 Does the spec need to specify a minimum IQ for its readers? 19:41:54 mon_key: for the same reason there's no spec for IOS' "description" contents 19:43:09 site name is something for the people using the system, not anything else. ach site can have their own regulations regarding that, of course 19:43:51 Symbolics Genera had Namespace Database that used site names, but again, for description of namespace (at least that much I remember from playing with it) 19:43:59 pjb: Of course not :) But for someone whos a stickler for his package-names can you not imagine what might have occured had Lisp become the backbone for the modern Internet instad of unix/C? 19:45:09 mon_key: nothing would happen. 19:45:23 Especially since current backbone didn't come from unix/C :) 19:45:52 p_l|backup: No doubt but it is the spit holding it together... 19:46:25 hmm, it'd be kinda interesting to see a multiuser system with protection, written in lisp 19:46:30 mon_key: yes, but BSD IP stack came as replacement for discontinued machines in an already existing network 19:46:32 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@93-35-255-32.ip57.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:46:33 C/C++/Perl being counter-examples, language having a good and consistent naming scheme has a lot to do with its success 19:47:44 *Xach* has wondered if "Quicklisp" helped quicklisp and "mudballs" hurt mudballs. 19:47:45 p_l|backup: I'm mostly thinking of POSIX gethostby 19:47:48 seems such a trivial thing, but its huge help with you think about "I need to do X", and then try to guess the name of a function/class based on conventions, and find exactly what you were looking for 19:47:49 mon_key: a network that had grown on quite different culture, while Unix networking was composed of "sites" connected by modems and communicating by copying files 19:48:27 mon_key: BSD socket api is actually rather an antithesis to Unix 19:48:39 maxm: uh, that's why there's apropos 19:49:08 mon_key: it's a bit of TOPS-20 carried around forever due to influence of BSD 19:50:12 p_l|backup: I should learn more about BSD history then :) 19:50:32 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-132.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:50:39 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-170.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:50:49 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-170.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:51:18 its basically the old "we'll have a committee to design it" vs "fuck it, I'll write it myself in an afternoon" type thing 19:51:41 mon_key: if you want to see networking as it would happen if Unix developed differently and didn't stop where it was, grab Plan9 and build a network (on a VT-x/SVM cpu you can easily set up a few Qemu-kvm instances) 19:51:42 in the end write it in the afternoon guys usually win due to youthful vigor and drugs 19:51:56 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:14 not necessarily on technical merits, but their code quickly overtakes the more academic minded one 19:52:27 maxm: except in case of networking it was otherwise, though. And networking lives by RFCs 19:52:30 for latest example see linus writing git 19:53:03 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-146-132.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:53:23 well yea have to agree with you there.. Most RFC's are a beauty 19:53:23 p_l|backup: So likely the connection-machine stuff was well established in some pretty _critical_ locations and when the Standard was written/ratified some concerned parties would have had very specific use cases in mind for locating a machine at a site.... 19:53:25 maxm: I'd say git is a helluva lot more academic than many VCSes. At least more than classic ones. Probably the only more academic one is darcs 19:53:25 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-170.netcologne.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:40 *maxm* tried to re-introduce writing specs in text files instead of word documents in his work, but there is just no way 19:53:59 mon_key: it's not about connection-machines, it's about server rooms and computer labs :) 19:54:22 mon_key: for example, your company's offic would be a site 19:55:34 -!- Guthur__ is now known as Guthur 19:56:06 mon_key: in my last company, a site would be each of the datacenters 19:56:07 p_l|backup: so why not just (defvar *site-name* "MY-FANCY-SITE") 19:56:41 mon_key: that's kinda how it is done. You just have a common name 19:56:49 For example, if your company has two offices accross the street, it could have two sites, and it would be interesting to know if you're working on a computer across the street or not. (ie. whether pigeons might have an impact on your laser connection or not). 19:57:02 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:57:44 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-170.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:59:05 mon_key: this is done usually once for all, at compilation time. 19:59:07 Oh, I get it. LONG-SITE-NAME has the potential for polymorphrobification 19:59:45 mon_key: some implementations also take it from environment variables, so you don't have to recompile it at each site. 20:01:42 you can also use a common init code in your apps that would pull site definitions on startup 20:03:25 kami`` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:03:57 It's not the job of applications to do that. 20:04:57 pjb: yes, but it can save you time if you don't do custom builds per site 20:05:10 p_l|backup: I use gentoo. 20:05:50 Oh, just remembered an important reason to use those variables - originally, you often did tailored compiles for clients, as well as produce custom patches 20:07:03 -!- kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:10:32 gavin0 [~Miranda@pool-71-189-7-58.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:10:34 JuanDaugherty [~Ren@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:10:42 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-170.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 20:13:54 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-170.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:15:22 paul0 [~paul0@189.114.203.150.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 20:17:41 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:13 dumb question: I completely forgot how to test if an object is a function; can't find it in the spec either. 20:18:15 help? 20:18:23 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:19:15 ehu: are you for serious? 20:19:28 functionp 20:19:30 http://l1sp.org/cl/functionp 20:19:34 wow. 20:19:39 jant_ [~jant@137.Red-83-54-210.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:19:46 why doesn't that turn up in a google search? 20:19:51 thanks! 20:19:54 you know better than to use google for lisp terms! 20:19:55 I was really lost. 20:20:01 :-) 20:20:04 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 20:20:10 also, might help to use +functionp instead of functionp 20:20:49 -!- jant_ [~jant@137.Red-83-54-210.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:21:27 oh wait, rss was brought up in here, not #sbcl 20:21:45 here's a quick attempt at adding an rss feed to the sbcl site: 20:21:46 http://www.elsasser.org/misc/sbcl-page-rss 20:21:57 I don't actually use rss, so anyone who does should feel free to offer criticism or suggestions 20:26:40 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:27:08 oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-170-229.bb.netvision.net.il] has joined #lisp 20:27:47 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:29:49 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:30:42 -!- sunwukong [~vukung@catv-80-98-247-63.catv.broadband.hu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:31:28 joshe: why is every ">" in a new line? 20:31:39 > > > classic trick to get pretty indentation without introducing any extra text nodes in the tree 20:33:03 Beats me, all the html is generated that way too. 20:34:10 oh well, xmls seems to parse it just fine 20:35:30 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:38:05 Of course, it's xml, not python. 20:38:18 joshe: did you per chance use YACLML? 20:38:46 I used whatever the standard sbcl-page mechanism uses. 20:39:45 still, I do recall that certain approach in generating the code leaves such an effect 20:41:33 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:45:36 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:46:25 pnq [~nick@ACA22BE5.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 20:48:06 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:49:55 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.131] has joined #lisp 20:51:27 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 20:53:33 -!- ska` [~user@ppp-58-8-32-196.revip2.asianet.co.th] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:53:39 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 20:54:00 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@76.226.221.184] has joined #lisp 20:55:03 -!- hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:56:24 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.219.11] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:56:24 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 20:59:41 hyko [~toby@my.unixuni.com] has joined #lisp 21:00:01 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-98-69.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:03:43 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-10-27.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:06:24 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:07:00 snowman_ [~snowman@d173-181-113-222.abhsia.telus.net] has joined #lisp 21:07:13 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 21:07:13 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 21:07:13 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 21:10:01 -!- me345 [~me345@adsl-75-15-177-51.dsl.bkfd14.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:11:49 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-78-36-165-102.static.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:15:11 yaclml uses that format in it's produce 21:15:54 yeah, it does 21:16:50 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-149-254.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 21:16:54 ... I just got reminded that I need to add some tags to it :/ 21:23:15 weirdo [~sthalik@d135-185.icpnet.pl] has joined #lisp 21:23:16 -!- rolando [~user@115.59.37.188.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:23:17 hey 21:23:29 i have a problem with ccl 1.7 32bit running on 64-bit windows 21:23:35 it crashes on quit 21:23:41 always, when running under swank 21:28:02 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-164-242.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:15 y3llow_ [~y3llow@111-240-164-242.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 21:28:58 ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:31 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:30:01 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:30:17 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-174-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:30:22 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 21:30:48 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-174-123.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:30:54 -!- y3llow_ is now known as y3llow 21:30:56 is there a way for me to iterate across a list to produce the following => (1 2 3) (2 3) (3) from (1 2 3) 21:31:34 Guthur: (maplist #'identty '(1 2 3)) 21:31:45 identity, rather 21:33:11 Xach, ah, great cheers 21:35:05 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@46-116-170-229.bb.netvision.net.il] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:35:26 -!- macrobat is now known as mockbot 21:37:49 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:38:02 -!- mockbot is now known as macrobat 21:43:19 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:43:48 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:45:12 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 21:45:41 tigranes [~user@static-50-53-75-48.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:01 cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:47:47 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 21:49:25 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-184-184-48.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:49:57 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 21:50:39 -!- cheezus [~Adium@76-10-183-155.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:55:17 dsp_: thank you for the report you made, and thank you maxm in addition for your work 21:56:57 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:57:03 -!- tigranes [~user@static-50-53-75-48.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 22:00:40 np Kryztof, I hope you guys apply it 22:00:58 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:02:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-33-77.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:02:02 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-33-77.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 22:02:02 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 22:02:06 it seems one of these annoying "sbcl _almost works_ issues" I actually hit it that bug myself some time ago trying to write pulseaudio volume control from stumpwm (by doing run-program with pipes), but gave up and just used shell scripts 22:02:57 heh lisp spoiled me typing, I'm so used to paredit and the emacs vimpulse stuff I have on top of paredit, my fingers expect all that magic to happen in C++ as well 22:03:28 I just use paredit in all programming modes... 22:04:19 nipra [~nipra@122.169.85.151] has joined #lisp 22:04:34 maxm: also, if you use InteLib in C++, you can profit from paredit: http://www.informatimago.com/articles/life-saver.html#intelib 22:04:42 no I have the basics too, but my paredit stuff splices and catenates and auto-sluprs etc 22:04:48 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-149-254.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:04:52 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:05:44 ie I can hit dd (let ()) and it deletes the var declaration only, until (let (^)) is left (with cursor at ^) and one more dd deletes the let, and splices body up 22:07:13 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:09:44 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:10:02 http://i.imgur.com/kUvG3.png 22:10:02 22:10:06 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:10:29 pretty cool even if I have to toot my own horn :-) 22:11:33 -!- scrimohsin [~csimon@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: 'bye.] 22:11:43 dah 22:11:59 doh, pjb this is exactly what I'm writing myself right now, using boost::varient 22:12:20 variant even... wtf quick google search for "c++ sexp" did not find that 22:12:40 codelurker [~codelurke@c-65-96-210-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:13:25 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:14:46 maxm: However, IME, this is useless. 22:15:43 well my needs are very simple, I don't need eval or anything, just something to be used for transport between lisp<>c++ land that supports recursive sexps/trees 22:15:49 maxm: either you decide what language you use, and then you can use CL (perhaps ecl if you need to link a lot of foreign code), or you don't decide, and then the team will reject anything that looks like Lisp, nonwithstanding the fact that it's pure C++ code. 22:15:56 and integer/floats/strings is all I need for atoms 22:16:04 Just use ecl. 22:16:42 pjb: nah I'm pretty deep into my project already, so switching to different lisp at this point would be a big chore comparing to writing a simple parser 22:21:44 bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:22:16 -!- lolsuper_ [~super_@unaffiliated/lolsuper-/x-9881387] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:22:30 -!- jdz [~jdz@host39-57-dynamic.48-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:22:58 maxm: you're not sticking to standard CL? 22:23:19 ehu: I do, but honestly /me is a bit vary of other lisps 22:24:07 ok. a friend of mine stuck to standard CL and says he's running his software on at least 6 different CL implementations now. 22:24:23 lots of calculations going on in his code. mostly matrix calculations. 22:24:27 eventually I may want to move my C++ lib all together to SBCL, as it was concieved back in 2001-2002 timeframe and api and general design is a bit dated, but for now I don't have time, so I'm making it better by doing SBCL bindings and moving more higher-level stuff to lisp 22:24:38 with some declare statements for speed, of course. 22:25:50 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 22:28:40 -!- geoffhotchkiss [geoff@rancor.csh.rit.edu] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:28:41 ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:28:48 -!- alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 22:29:41 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:30:13 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 22:30:41 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA22BE5.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:37:02 maxm: is that dd screenshot vimpulse functionality, or does it work with viper mode, too? 22:37:40 it was working with viper before, but I switched to vimpulse completely so now its a bit vimpulse specific 22:37:50 lemme paste the command 22:38:04 *maxm* has to install one of them fancy paste.el thigns 22:40:46 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124441 22:41:18 the dd code is pretty independent (since I recently rewrote it) so you probably can adapt it back to viper pretty easily.. Or just write a thin (interactive) wrapper to test it 22:42:58 thx 22:47:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:54:38 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:54:41 ChibaPet1 [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:54:42 -!- ChibaPet1 [~mason@c-68-58-147-105.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has left #lisp 22:54:45 -!- bombshelter13b [~bombshelt@76-10-149-209.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: If only your veins were filled with oil, the world would rush to your rescue!] 23:04:05 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:05:19 McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.222.244] has joined #lisp 23:05:28 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:06:02 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:06:19 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A5679.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:09:00 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 23:09:41 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-18-160-110.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:15:05 adawg [~adawg@99-90-201-32.lightspeed.livnmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 23:16:25 -!- McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.222.244] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:18:44 Yuuhi [~user@p4FC9452A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:16 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:22:33 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:28:05 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-65-96-210-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 23:28:06 daniel__ [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:30:46 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:34:57 -!- daniel__ [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:36:24 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 23:36:35 man you can do pretty amazing stuff with boost novadays 23:37:32 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:38:20 You can shovel some pretty amazing manure with the shovels they have nowadays as well. 23:39:54 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:41:13 maxm: are you talking about the C++ boost library? 23:41:21 yea 23:41:33 and in c++ templates in general 23:41:55 I remember gcc 2.x having tons of problems, but now complicated stuff works very nicely 23:42:11 2.x? that was, what, a decade ago? 23:42:45 but yeah, you'll not hear me demean C++ 23:44:01 as soon as i learn enough CL, that will be the choice (for high-level applications) for me: C++ or CL? 23:46:53 i wrote a real-time, 3D data analysis program using wx and C++: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UZKgQBWt1gs 23:47:16 is cl-oauth supposed to work on windows? I'm getting this error: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124442 23:50:51 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 23:52:16 yates-1: CL is definitely faster to develop/iterate (as in iteratively develop), prototype and basically explore 23:52:52 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:53:18 thats pretty cool visualisation 23:53:39 -!- ace4016 [~ace4016@99-120-69-226.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:53:51 thanks! 23:54:43 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124443 23:54:54 maxm: if CL is faster, why not just use it instead of C++ then? 23:55:31 that stuff is pretty cool... I have basic sexp parser and bunch of utility functions for walking it in around 200 lines of code and 2 hours of work 23:56:01 yates-1: its not faster, you can get around 70/80% of speed of C++ on heavily numerical computation 23:56:12 sometimes close to 100% 23:56:27 i meant faster in terms of development time. and i think you just answered my question, even though it was the wrong answer! 23:56:46 yates-1: as to why I'm using it, I already have C++ library, for which I'm making an GUI in lisp 23:57:28 here is a video of an app I'm writing, its a basic charting app 23:57:29 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_3uxHkGsj0 23:57:39 if you're that close to the bleeding edge of numerical computational complexity, no HLL will help 23:57:47 *maxm* has more stuff in there now 23:58:05 time for serious low-level stuff like SSE (on the x86) 23:58:41 just optimize the inner loop in and continue the rest of development with your favorite HLL 23:59:02