00:03:58 -!- Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 00:04:03 Tordek [tordek@supporter.blinkenshell.org] has joined #lisp 00:05:28 -!- tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 00:12:04 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 00:15:09 -!- oconnore [~Eric@75-150-66-254-NewEngland.hfc.comcastbusiness.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 00:20:37 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-234-61.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 00:21:23 xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has joined #lisp 00:26:27 tic [~tic@c83-249-198-162.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 00:33:00 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 00:33:25 katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has joined #lisp 00:33:25 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@97-89-229-3.static.snfr.nc.charter.com] has quit [Changing host] 00:33:25 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 00:34:35 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A1FE7.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:40:27 -!- tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 00:42:13 cfy [~cfy@125.123.48.132] has joined #lisp 00:42:14 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.48.132] has quit [Changing host] 00:42:14 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 00:43:02 -!- cfy is now known as ilisp 00:47:30 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 00:51:07 -!- dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dwim] 00:53:32 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 00:59:16 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 01:00:11 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Quit: rpg] 01:05:57 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:07 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:06:15 Hi. does anyone know about the license for this code? there's nothing in the file or doc. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/afs/cs/project/ai-repository/ai/lang/lisp/code/math/matrix/matrix.cl 01:08:14 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-92.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 01:10:04 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:14:56 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:17:39 -!- ilisp is now known as cfy 01:18:09 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 01:20:35 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.192] has joined #lisp 01:27:04 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.112.143] has joined #lisp 01:29:26 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-5.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:29:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-5.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 01:31:36 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 01:33:08 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-65-96-210-138.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 01:33:36 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 01:35:06 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC8A4D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 01:36:01 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 01:37:25 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [Client Quit] 01:38:12 gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has joined #lisp 01:38:42 -!- H4ns [~user@pD4B9EE36.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:39:18 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 01:51:10 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 01:51:20 dto: you can use it - it wouldn't be in AI repo otherwise (that requirement is mentioned in readme of AI Repository) 01:51:30 -!- bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:53:29 p_l|v6: but i thought some things were under noncommercial restriction. if i'm going to grab 150 lines of code from somewhere, i'd prefer it be public domain or at least MIT-style 01:53:38 i.e. i really prefer an explicit license 01:56:16 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:57:59 it says all contributions must be accompanied by an explicit copyright statement but there doesn't seem to be one for Matrix. 02:01:04 don't be such a wus, that stuff is pushin 20 years old, nobody gives a shit 02:02:02 wus, fussbudget, whatever 02:02:24 dto: matlisp! 02:02:34 hah 02:02:44 what's matlisp? 02:03:49 oh is this in QL? 02:03:53 quicklisp i mean 02:04:00 no clue. Maybe? 02:05:28 It's a matrix math (and some other mathsy stuff) package. Comes with a literal matrix/vector reader macro, and a complete set of operations. I think there's a pure-lisp fallback, but I use it as a wrapper around BLAS/LAPACK> 02:06:13 looks nice 02:10:55 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 02:13:33 dto: sorry if this is a bad question, but what happened to your game blog? (or alternative question: do you have another one?) 02:13:43 Axioplase: http://blocky.io/blog 02:13:46 is the new blog. 02:14:09 i'm getting close to being able to release a beta. 02:14:32 cool. 02:15:42 Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D0DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 02:16:12 been idling here, this matlisp thing looks promising. thanks! 02:17:28 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D0F3.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 02:18:53 neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has joined #lisp 02:20:55 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-140-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 02:21:03 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-140-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 02:26:11 pnq [~nick@ACA32E77.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 02:27:55 rbuck [~rbuck@66-189-68-77.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 02:28:04 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-45-152.cascadeaccess.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:29:13 tonytraductor [~tonytradu@c-71-235-82-118.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 02:32:08 -!- rbuck [~rbuck@66-189-68-77.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:36:22 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp 02:37:20 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 02:38:20 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:39:01 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 02:39:08 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Client Quit] 02:49:01 gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-2-150-45.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 02:49:08 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 02:49:18 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 02:50:53 *mathrick* wonders if madeia is supposed to have a compatibility wrapper for bordeaux-threads 02:51:14 though I guess you can just add a new backend to BT and replace everything else with madeira 02:51:39 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:53:23 -!- tonytraductor [~tonytradu@c-71-235-82-118.hsd1.ct.comcast.net] has left #lisp 02:56:38 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 02:56:45 halp! I'm getting a version-diff error with SLIME... 02:56:53 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 02:56:57 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hnrjtlbdxbemvswd] has joined #lisp 02:57:11 when using swank; it's saying my version of slime is newer than the version of swank I have installed using quicklisp 02:57:29 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:58:28 it says Invalid protocol message, "CREATE-REPL" not found in SWANK package. do I have to do some extra with swank to get it working? 02:58:31 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 02:59:21 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:59:40 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 02:59:43 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:01:03 rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has joined #lisp 03:02:38 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:04:10 damnit...I'm running ubuntu, should I remove any common-lisp packages I have installed and stick with quicklisp? 03:04:19 optikalmouse: probably. 03:05:06 -!- HET2 [~diman@cpc12-cdif12-2-0-cust276.5-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:05:28 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:08:57 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 03:10:34 dmiles_afk [~dmiles@dsl-72-19-47-084.cascadeaccess.com] has joined #lisp 03:17:28 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iqeyqcokbrqvfwys] has joined #lisp 03:17:28 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-iqeyqcokbrqvfwys] has quit [Changing host] 03:17:28 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 03:18:19 daniel__ [~daniel@p50829044.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:18:38 -!- MeanWeen is now known as drapple 03:18:45 -!- drapple [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:19:06 if i want to write a macro to make functions such as 'make-a', 'make-b', 'make-c', how can i build a symbol that defines that function via defun inside that macro? 03:19:07 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:19:20 -!- Daev is now known as MeanWeen 03:19:30 yan_: INTERN, probably 03:19:51 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 03:20:08 -!- daniel [~daniel@p5B326E86.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:20:10 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:20:10 -!- Daev is now known as MeanWeen 03:20:31 -!- MeanWeen is now known as drapple 03:20:51 Bike: does INTERN return the symbol it creates? 03:20:57 Actually, nm, the repl is right here 03:22:48 optikalmouse: yeah, remove everything except (maybe) the common-lisp itself 03:23:21 yan_: however, writing macros that do that is generally a bad idea. 03:23:44 *gigamonkey* wonders if folks would come up with that idea themselves without the bad example of DEFSTRUCT 03:24:16 That's the only thing in the standard that does something like that, isn't it? 03:25:16 Bike: as far as I can think of. 03:26:59 I use intern to make keywords from strings, is that bad? 03:27:46 jasom: as in symbols in the keyword package? No, that's fine. 03:28:18 okay, just checking; I've lived as a solo lisper for a while, and hanging out in here is my attempt to change that 03:28:40 I seem to remember reading this in practical common lisp, but can't find it now. on the diff packages of symbols.. I'm using intern inside a macro to produce a (defun ..), and it's not creating a valid symbol to pass to the defun 03:29:12 what i'm trying to do: (defmacro dff (x) `(defun ,(intern (format nil "~dth" x)) (foo) (princ foo))) 03:29:36 but if i do (dff 34), it doesn't create a function named 34th 03:29:38 yan_: so that's still a bad idea, but if you insist you need to make sure the case is right. 03:29:50 yan_: you probably want to UPCASE that 03:30:08 hrm. I realize that's a bad idea, but i wanted to see if the implementation is straightforward.. 03:30:12 holy [~concasauc@1.53.34.239] has joined #lisp 03:30:17 hi 03:32:13 -!- cnl [~cnl@95.106.23.14] has quit [Quit: leaving] 03:35:44 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.151] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:35:55 hi 03:36:04 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.151] has joined #lisp 03:36:52 -!- drapple is now known as MeanWeen 03:37:06 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:19 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:39:27 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 03:39:58 sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:36 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:41:04 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:41:16 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 03:41:24 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:42:03 hm what's going on here? xyz is a macro i defined, and: (loop for x from 1 to 5 do (xyz i)), the symbol i is being passed to xyz not the value of i 03:42:34 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 03:43:10 -!- holy [~concasauc@1.53.34.239] has left #lisp 03:43:25 yan_: that's how macros work. 03:43:36 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 03:45:19 gigamonkey: i expand it in the macro however.. its: (defmacro xyz (X) `(princ ,(format nil "hello-~a" X))) 03:45:43 for the sake of this example 03:47:20 You need to leave the X in the expansion so it can be evaluated at runtie. 03:47:23 runtime. 03:49:31 (defmacro xyz (x) `(princ (format nil "hello-~a" x))) would work though would be silly. 03:50:57 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:52:45 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:56:45 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@186.214.201.89] has joined #lisp 03:57:12 -!- nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@186.214.201.89] has quit [Client Quit] 03:57:16 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:58:07 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 04:00:38 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-237.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:30 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:02:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@216.243.156.16.real-time.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:03:54 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.203.107] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 04:03:54 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 04:05:28 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.20.82] has joined #lisp 04:06:03 ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:06:53 ArchMonkey__ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 04:07:39 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[~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:20:11 tychoish [~tychoish@pool-71-183-121-230.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:21:55 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has quit [Quit: leaving] 04:22:14 -!- tychoish [~tychoish@pool-71-183-121-230.nycmny.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:23:29 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has joined #lisp 04:26:52 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 04:26:54 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.151] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:33:05 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-hnrjtlbdxbemvswd] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 04:33:44 zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 04:33:50 drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has joined #lisp 04:33:51 stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 04:38:33 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:07 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:46:37 . 04:47:30 .o 04:47:47 rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 04:48:25 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.114.192] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 04:51:16 Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.140.50] has joined #lisp 04:51:50 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-owjoucznzozvnkmx] has joined #lisp 04:52:08 .oO 04:53:24 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:56:32 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 05:00:06 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 05:02:30 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA32E77.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:03:43 .oO() deserves to be a read-macro :) 05:04:54 BrianRice, implement it and I will pay you five (5) USD 05:05:15 tychoish [~tychoish@foucault.cyborginstitute.net] has joined #lisp 05:06:42 am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has joined #lisp 05:08:02 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 05:08:17 (via PayPal) 05:09:12 won't happen tonight, but maybe (just to remind myself how read-macros work) 05:10:16 BrianRice, you could be making five (5) USD 05:12:55 You could go to sleep a rich man! 05:13:33 Or even .o0(5) 05:15:33 The main difficulty will be in handling .o0 vs. .12, etc. 05:16:31 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:19:24 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 05:21:25 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:22:25 stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has joined #lisp 05:23:38 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 05:23:43 Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 05:26:01 -!- stassats` [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:26:49 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 05:27:10 ok I think I figured out my problem; the wrong version of SLIME/Swank is still being loaded up but I can't figure out how to stop that. 05:27:30 I have slime 20110829 loading up 05:27:34 (i'm using quicklisp) 05:28:10 but swank seems to be loading from my ~/.slime directory which is slime 20110818... 05:30:54 zomgbie [~jesus@212095007069.public.telering.at] has joined #lisp 05:32:12 tali713 [~user@c-76-17-236-129.hsd1.mn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:32:24 ah shit.... 05:32:44 asdf-install is the culprit. how do I remove it completely?? :S 05:33:22 -!- ^ThE_UniX_GuY^ is now known as Deesl 05:33:22 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@ggn.ixigo.net] has quit [Changing host] 05:33:22 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 05:37:23 rm -rf 05:37:36 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:37:43 stassats: asdf-install should really come with a script for that ;p 05:37:45 thanks :D 05:37:54 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:38:04 it's not called asdf-uninstall 05:38:20 heh 05:39:32 rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:43:04 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yddmspjbnrqnirvh] has joined #lisp 05:45:42 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 05:46:39 slime's connecting to swank apparently but it doesnt spawn an REPL... 05:47:29 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:47:56 wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:48:03 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 05:50:08 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-5.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:50:56 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-164-5.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 05:54:49 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:56:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 05:56:46 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 05:59:22 rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 05:59:40 good morning #lisp 06:01:11 kami: good day 06:01:13 indeed 06:01:51 does anybody know a good channel for asking TCP/IP related questions? 06:02:05 huh 06:02:11 I'm the only one speaking in #tcpip since yesterday 06:02:19 zvrba: sorry, OT, I know 06:02:21 what's your question? 06:02:26 but I'm desperate 06:03:05 I have two remote locations between which icmp packets get lost. The bigger the MTU, the more packet loss. 06:03:13 reproducibly 06:03:30 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 06:03:31 and that kills the vpn 06:03:47 so don't use a big MTU :-P 06:03:49 kami: ask on stackoverflow? 06:04:13 kami: anyway, ##c or #posix/##posix can usually help with api-related questions 06:04:33 zvrba, optikalmouse: good ideas, thanks 06:04:43 i hate freenode's ## policy 06:04:51 is it #posix or ##posix? or maybe both? 06:04:56 thank you sweet jesus (just installed latest sbcl binary, all updated and slime finally works with swank :D) 06:05:07 Hi ehu, how is your implementation doing? 06:05:11 08:04 [freenode] -!- Cannot join to channel #c (You must be invited) 06:05:13 zvrba: yeah it's annoying, we should vote and change that policy around -_-' 06:05:17 Oh, he's gone. 06:05:31 optikalmouse: vote where? 06:05:41 zvrba: ... good question 06:05:55 so why is #c invite-only? 06:06:02 (OT, disregard that question) 06:06:29 anyway, it's annoying. i'm tempted to fork freenode :-P 06:06:37 #c and not ##c? 06:06:55 stassats: hmm? #c is invite-only, ##c is open for everybody 06:07:07 (or, rather, for registered users) 06:07:14 if you want to talk about c, the language, you need ##c 06:07:30 stassats: so what is #c for? 06:07:39 abeaumont [~abeaumont@90.165.165.246] has joined #lisp 06:07:45 stassats: and is it #posix or ##posix? 06:07:48 Blame lilo. 06:07:56 who is lilo? 06:07:57 Zhivago: blame grub. 06:08:04 No. 06:08:23 ah, found him on wikipedia 06:08:27 lilo had this idea to try to sell #ibm to ibm, and make ##ibm some community channel. 06:08:31 deceasedappraently 06:08:32 Then he died. 06:08:48 And his insane vision died with him. 06:08:55 so IBM killed him? 06:08:57 :| 06:09:02 But not before he migrated a lot of channels. 06:09:23 Well, had he lived, he might have carried it off, I guess -- but the vision wasn't contagious. 06:09:23 ok, he's dead. why don't we clean up again now?' 06:09:50 Because the authority rights to the original channels has been lost in many cases. 06:09:51 because the channel naming is a tribute to him, it's a monument to... 06:09:52 (who was he going to sell #c to?) 06:10:08 i guess MS would be intereseted in #c ;) 06:10:09 so the only way to migrate is to rebuild the database? 06:10:10 hajovonta [xizk@usloft1077.serverloft.de] has joined #lisp 06:10:16 good morning 06:10:19 can't they just kill the channels and re-create them? 06:10:25 Well, the problem is that the original channel founders in many cases have disappeared. 06:10:35 Zhivago: can't the network administrator just reclaim ownership of the channel(s)? 06:10:35 #c should redirect to ##c. 06:10:40 Zhivago: it does. 06:10:45 Zhivago: urm, sorry. 06:10:58 Zhivago: previously it did, IIRC, but now it just kicks out. 06:10:59 trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 06:11:30 Yes, but then they'd need to adjudicate. 06:11:42 adjudicate what? 06:11:46 a name switch? 06:11:52 which is basically dropping a #? 06:12:02 No. They're completely different channels. 06:12:07 With different owners. 06:12:11 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-vpdzwewkzojrvhbw] has joined #lisp 06:12:28 screw em, kick both owners, drop the channels and create a new one with the proper naming. 06:12:30 So, they'd have to work out that the original owner of #c, who is also defunct, is actually defunct. 06:12:39 See above: re adjudication. 06:12:57 Zhivago: but if the owner of a #-channel has disappeared.. wouldn't it be enough that the owner of a ##-channel just asks for renaming? 06:13:13 Now, since you're dealing with a lot of childish people, making a mistake in adjudication is far more dangerous than leaving things as they are. 06:13:20 :) 06:13:23 dangerous for whom? 06:13:30 Everybody. 06:13:34 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:13:38 or, rather, why are they afraid of losing childish people? 06:13:53 they get angry, and in the worst case, they ignore #freenode. so? 06:14:03 No. That's not the worst case. 06:14:07 no in the worst case they piss off the hundreds of people on their channels. 06:14:09 oh? ddos maybe then? 06:14:22 conspire with other channel ops to take things down as well. 06:14:23 No. It's a social movement, so ... 06:14:34 so? 06:14:54 Social movements exist as shared belief structures. 06:14:59 i guess i'm not an average irc-user. 06:15:13 basically if one channel falls, the others may do the same as well. yes Zhivago ? 06:15:25 Zhivago: so what is "belief" in this case? 06:16:04 sykopomp [~sykopomp@gateway/tor-sasl/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 06:16:13 What allows you to walk into a shop and buy some bread? 06:16:27 belief in capitalism ;p 06:16:56 Zhivago: a belief that shops 1) really DO have bread to sell, 2) will exchange bread for money. 06:17:16 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 06:17:42 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:17:59 And a whole bunch of other beliefs, such as their believing that your money will be worth something tomorrow, and that your bread won't be poisonous, and ... 06:18:22 The moment that any one of these critical beliefs break down you end up living in a libeterian dream. 06:18:47 Where you need to have a personal relationship with your baker and be prepared to lynch him. 06:19:46 And that's really the difference between the New York and some shanty town in North Africa. 06:20:35 A carefully constructed web of beliefs that allows us to exist in a ridiculously optimistic virtual world. 06:22:58 tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.31] has joined #lisp 06:23:16 Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has joined #lisp 06:23:22 Funny how talk of removing hashes from freenode channel names turns into that. 06:23:26 Zhivago: hm. but what beliefs would be crushed if channels would be renamed? 06:23:54 That's not the problem -- the problem is when you mess up and give control of #x to the wrong people. 06:24:09 actually, i have two beliefs: that i'll have an opportunity to chat with some intelligent people on IRC, and that Zhivago will call me an idiot when I say something stupid :p 06:24:31 Zhivago: ah. 06:24:37 how about giving no one control? and having a voting system for kicking/banning people? 06:24:41 Zhivago: what power do channel owners actually have? 06:24:49 They can't just give #x to whoever owns ##x right now? 06:24:49 hell, you don't even need kick/ban when you can do a local /ignore. 06:24:57 just need a good blacklist of people to /ignore :p 06:25:02 Zhivago: and is anybody with op-rights also considered as an "owner"? 06:25:11 No, owners are "above" just ops. 06:25:14 zrvba: Actually, I'm not sure what the system currently is -- but it used to be that you had a level, and could manage anyone below that level. 06:25:28 ah, like on undernet 06:25:39 And the owner was just at the top, and could change the levels required to do various things, tec. 06:26:16 Which is why #c moved to ##c, for example. 06:26:37 as Bike said: why not just rename ## to # and retain the same hierarchy of ##? 06:27:08 Well, #c and ##c co-existed for quite a long time. 06:27:19 I imagine that there are cases of that still. 06:27:39 The key is to understand that they're completely separate channels. 06:27:58 is #c alive at all now? 06:28:41 Yes. 06:28:56 We just set up a redirect and a block to stop people going there. 06:28:56 huangho [~vitor@201-35-76-48.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has joined #lisp 06:29:29 In the case of #c it would be fairly easy, but I'm talking about the general situation which is much larger and more complex. 06:29:42 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: There is no quit message.] 06:29:52 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@64.134.227.31] has left #lisp 06:30:11 ah 06:31:09 -!- huangho [~vitor@201-35-76-48.paemt700.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br] has quit [Client Quit] 06:36:19 tarmil [~user@109.74.51.29] has joined #lisp 06:36:53 let's share belief in admins 06:39:35 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has joined #lisp 06:44:11 -!- OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 06:45:51 gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has joined #lisp 06:46:06 oh dear odin and hastur new gig wants me learn perl and mysql 06:46:14 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 06:49:14 why? 06:50:27 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:32 OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 06:50:59 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has left #lisp 06:55:00 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 06:56:08 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 06:56:48 -!- zmyrgel [~user@hoasb-ff0cdd00-22.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:00:57 kirkwood [~user@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:02:03 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-92.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:08:40 gavino: kill it, kill it with fire 07:08:52 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-237.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 07:10:00 -!- kirkwood [~user@c-24-17-10-251.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 24.0.50.1] 07:11:17 :C 07:11:20 z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has joined #lisp 07:11:37 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 07:11:37 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 07:11:37 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 07:12:23 gavino: hurra! perl is cool! :D 07:12:29 gavino: but mysql less so. 07:13:10 lol 07:13:24 burn them, burn them allllll 07:13:30 ehu [~ehuels@109.37.210.145] has joined #lisp 07:13:41 you know more I see of tcl and perl 07:13:46 more I appreciate lisp 07:14:06 it seems like programming is nice and then dealing with unix and N node coordination is Annyoing 07:14:25 anyone here ever heard of quicksilver project operating system based on transactions at IBM? 07:16:54 transactions? how? 07:17:43 the markov chain generator is experiencing a glitch, please stand by 07:18:11 :) 07:20:10 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.140.50] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:20:27 heh 07:20:50 having slime+swank and hunchentoot running is hella cool. cooler than django's auto-reloading of python code :D 07:21:42 aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has joined #lisp 07:22:09 jjong [~user@58.225.5.42] has joined #lisp 07:23:22 -!- z1l0g [jgw@sverige.sdf.org] has left #lisp 07:23:29 http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=2&sqi=2&ved=0CBkQFjAB&url=http%3A%2F%2Fciteseer.ist.psu.edu%2Fviewdoc%2Fdownload%3Bjsessionid%3D0999B7DE5573A0134E2FAC332A9B0118%3Fdoi%3D10.1.1.12.4662%26rep%3Drep1%26type%3Dpdf&rct=j&q=ibm%20quicksilver%20transaction%20os&ei=G_teTvaUE4fC0AG5wq3XAg&usg=AFQjCNFFbPZgIBVTI_eJG4IMmL77uvkfGQ&cad=rja 07:23:45 optikalmouse: so how do you like hunchentoot? 07:23:58 are you able to server static html files? 07:24:04 what do you use it for? 07:26:29 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 07:27:26 ah computer science 07:27:28 I love it 07:28:51 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 07:31:31 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:32:48 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:33:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has joined #lisp 07:33:53 -!- rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:34:05 gavino: I havent tried serving static files yet, but I'm going to have to 07:34:21 I'm writing some code that loads up an image, draws on it and then outputs it through hunchentoot 07:34:54 I was thinking of saving to a random file and then letting lighttpd/apache serve it but that doesnt really work since the files won't be re-used really... 07:36:10 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@212095007069.public.telering.at] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:39:13 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 07:40:33 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:41:03 hm 07:41:09 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 07:41:15 so hunch is more of an appserver 07:47:46 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 07:48:10 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:49:17 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 07:49:52 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@141.76.92.57] has joined #lisp 07:49:53 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@141.76.92.57] has quit [Changing host] 07:49:53 spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has joined #lisp 07:50:40 tarmil` [~user@109.74.51.29] has joined #lisp 07:52:45 francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has joined #lisp 07:53:45 -!- tarmil [~user@109.74.51.29] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:53:55 how do I suppress join quit messages in IRC again? 07:57:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 07:58:02 -!- buguldey [~buguldey@client-64-4.sibtele.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 08:06:53 TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 08:07:00 buguldey [~buguldey@client-64-4.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 08:09:20 -!- Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:19:21 -!- borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 08:23:05 rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 08:23:20 -!- ASau [~user@93-80-104-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 08:24:11 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 08:24:11 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 08:29:03 -!- sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: making nice with my bed sheets.] 08:29:04 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:34:26 borkamaniac [~user@S0106001111de1fc8.cg.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 08:36:10 i'm puzzled with this regex. i want to match strings of non-digits or sequences of digits. i'm using cl-ppcre's scan-to-strings with the regexp "\\d+|[^\\d+]" with the string "string4849" that yields "string", why doesn't it yield 4849 as well? 08:36:34 s/strings of/substrings containing/ 08:37:03 Maybe that + isn't in the right place? 08:37:03 -!- benny [~benny@i577A222F.versanet.de] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:38:37 yeah, that's one thing, but not everything 08:39:22 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.92] has joined #lisp 08:39:22 So, what does it do that surprises you, now? 08:39:27 \\d+|[^\\d]+ doesn't give me the digits as well 08:39:34 s/as well/either 08:40:13 I think that [] is wrong. 08:40:19 madnificent: try \\D for any non digit character? 08:41:06 churib`: yeah, that's cleaner to say the least 08:41:35 i think that there's something wrong with | in what I'm doing. if i ask for \\d+ it works as expected, \\D+ works as expected as well. but \\d+|\\D+ doesn't 08:42:00 [^[:digit:]] is probably what you intend ... 08:42:12 i think i'm misunderstanding something in cl-ppcre 08:42:18 No. I think that the problem is that you don't know regex. 08:42:44 -!- drl [~lat@110.139.230.255] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 08:42:45 Zhivago: stop now, you said something good earlier and statistically speaking, you're going to screw it up 08:43:13 but seriously, i'm obviously missing something. that's right 08:43:22 mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 08:43:23 Yeah, regex. 08:43:49 good morning 08:44:07 madnificent: please paste your code, but I believe you only get the _first_ match. look at all-matches-as-string and similar 08:44:08 so right, i guess i need cl-ppcre:all-matches, not scan-to-strings (really?) 08:44:10 -!- churib` is now known as churib 08:44:19 flip214: bingo! thanks! 08:44:25 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 08:44:49 flip214: this is it now: (cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings "(\\d+|\\D+)" "string9392") 08:45:08 flip214: i distilled it to a minimal case in which i was wrong 08:45:51 good morning mvilleneuve 08:53:44 -!- upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 08:53:52 hi folks 08:54:10 i'm having issues grokking the condition system 08:55:16 (handler-case (function-that-may-cause-condition) ((make-condition 'condition-to-handle) () "we're dealing with it"))) 08:55:19 not sure if this is correct 08:57:12 indeed, it seems to want a 'type specifier'. 08:57:24 (handler-case (function-that-may-cause-condition) (condition-to-handle () "we're dealing with it")) 08:57:31 dsp_: ^ 08:57:49 doesn't make-condition provide a condition? 08:58:01 i'm not sure what format 'condition-to-handle' should be in 08:58:09 i guess that's the confusion for me 08:58:27 is it a function call, for example? it looks like that's the form 08:58:55 the error i'm trying to catch was "SB-IMPL::INVALID-UTF8-STARTER-BYTE", from something i was working on yesterday 08:58:57 condition-to-handle is the type of the condition which was constructed in (function-that-may-cause-condition) 08:59:40 (which, i think, would be not portable to target anyway, so i'm lacking deeper understanding clearly) 09:00:12 dsp_: if that symbol is not exported, you should note that it may change without warning. regardless, you should be able to catch it with (handler-case (this-will-cause-the-sb-condition) (SB-IMPL::INVALID-UTF8-STARTER-BYTE () "gotcha!")) 09:01:27 aha. i was making the amateur mistake of prefixing it with ' 09:01:33 dsp_: the notation may not seem clear at first sight, as the syntax seems to resemble a function definition. it is, however, understandable when you try to read the code. 09:03:08 dsp_: gigamonkey's book contains a nice explenation of the condition system. if you find it to be confusing (as i do from time to time, i don't use it often enough), then that may be an interesting read. 09:03:50 thanks! 09:04:03 though, yes, a quick question regarding this if you don't mind 09:04:10 sb-impl looks like it's something specific to SBCL 09:04:28 it is! 09:04:31 what would be the portable way to handle such errors? 09:04:44 dsp_: and :: hints that it's not even something that sbcl considers to be stable 09:04:57 aha 09:05:03 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 09:05:44 dsp_: :: means indicates that the symbol is not exported (well, :: can access any symbol available to the package, whereas : can only access the exported symbols). 09:05:45 i mean, i don't want to do anything silly like ignore all errors 09:05:46 you might find something more exported like a decoding-error condition type 09:06:03 -!- jasom [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:06:04 but this was caused by filename parsing i believe 09:06:07 dsp_: regardless, i don't know of a portable way to handle that, but others on this channel may know 09:06:11 the conditions come in a hierarchy, and the handlers handle all subtypes of their listed conditions 09:06:13 thanks 09:06:25 dsp_: sure, that might well still end up as a decoding error 09:06:30 Kryztof: so i could look for a 'parent' of this condition type and handle that perhaps 09:06:55 right 09:07:11 sb-int:character-decoding-error might be your best bet for now 09:07:35 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 09:08:04 yep, that also works 09:08:32 i'm just really wary of including implementation specific code since the reason i moved to CL from scheme was due to frustration with incompatibilities ;) 09:08:53 Kryztof: is there a standardized way to display the hierarchy of an instance? just wondering. 09:09:05 yeah, that's something i'd like too 09:09:20 sb-mop:class-precedence-list 09:09:25 closer-mop should allow for it 09:09:41 -!- austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:10:47 probably nicer to display the superclasses of each class through closer-mop, the tangled class-precedence-list might perhaps be less simple to interpret. 09:12:16 jasom_ [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:12:37 yeah, this error apparently is SB-specific all the way up, so no way to really do anything about it 09:12:48 sb-impl, sb-int, sb-pcl 09:12:50 alas 09:13:10 handling a condition that won't happen in other implementations is harmless enough i think 09:16:19 dsp_: you can still support multiple implementations though. use #+sbcl (IIRC) for the sbcl specific condition. perhaps use #-sbcl for other systems. 09:16:51 austinh [~austinh@c-67-189-92-40.hsd1.or.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:17:02 dsp_: that way you can distinguish how to handle various implementations. it also shows --to some extent-- that the functionality isn't exactly portable. 09:17:07 aha! 09:17:15 i have more reading to do :) thanks! 09:17:27 dsp_: you're most welcome! 09:19:25 -!- jjong [~user@58.225.5.42] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:51 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 09:21:01 scorpil [~voffka@77.127.74.139] has joined #lisp 09:22:20 -!- parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:26:20 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:28:14 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Client Quit] 09:29:14 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:29:55 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-244-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:33:55 parabolize [~paraboliz@203.83.50.36] has joined #lisp 09:34:15 -!- jasom_ [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 09:34:21 jasom_ [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 09:37:28 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 09:37:47 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:39:00 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 09:41:23 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Client Quit] 09:41:30 jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has joined #lisp 09:43:04 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-vpdzwewkzojrvhbw] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:43:31 e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-nknhsgvjkyiyucwi] has joined #lisp 09:46:47 -!- H4ns` is now known as H4ns 09:52:49 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 09:52:50 benny [~benny@i577A20AE.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:53:11 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:53:54 dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:02:14 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@58.41.14.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:02:57 -!- replore_ [~replore@203.152.213.161.static.zoot.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:05:15 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 10:08:48 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:45 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.56.83] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:11:26 -!- a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has quit [Quit: changing servers] 10:11:43 a7p [a7p@9.83.238.89.in-addr.arpa.manitu.net] has joined #lisp 10:11:49 -!- gko [~gko@211.21.137.140] has quit [] 10:13:21 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Client Quit] 10:15:45 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:19:40 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.146] has joined #lisp 10:25:47 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:26:00 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:28:03 alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 10:28:21 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:35 -!- dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 10:28:36 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:28:40 dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 10:28:42 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:29:11 madnificent: dsp_ conditons are objects that inherit from more generic ones, the top one is error I think 10:29:22 any luck with that build bug for sbcl 1.0.51 (and 1.0.50, fwiw) on mac os x 10.7 lion? 10:29:51 so you don't need to catch the specific condition, just catch (error) and it will catch every condition thrown, ie encoding, divide by zero, or whatever else gets thrown 10:29:59 thats the portable way to do it 10:30:11 maxm: the top one is condition 10:30:33 vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.61.207] has joined #lisp 10:30:39 alama: i think it's fixed in git 10:31:02 (i presume you know the solution, CC=gcc) 10:31:11 hi. When i read an error like "Unmatched ')' near position 4286." how can i find, in emacs, the 4286 position? 10:31:22 M-x show-point-mode 10:31:28 stassats: great! i'll give that a try 10:31:31 M-x goto-char RET 10:31:33 then the number 10:31:36 thank you 10:31:37 the line number 10:31:37 vaaal: M-< C-u 4 2 8 6 C-f 10:35:48 vaaal384 [~vaaal@host3-36-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 10:36:10 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.61.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:38:34 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:38:39 -!- neoesque [~neoesque@210.59.147.232] has quit [Quit: Bye!] 10:39:07 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 10:39:20 how can i compile a whole file? 10:39:48 in emacs? C-c C-k 10:40:00 with slime, that is 10:40:10 clhs compile-file 10:40:10 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_cmp_fi.htm 10:40:14 for all other things 10:40:16 yes, thank you 10:41:20 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 10:46:09 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 10:50:02 mmm 10:51:02 i would to improve my enviroment: do you guys who use emacs have difficulties to find the appropriate buffer? 10:51:02 When i have to switch from a buffer to another i really spend a bunch of time... do you have another better solution? 10:51:32 vaaal384: don't you use iswtichb or ido ? 10:51:40 was about to recommend iswitchb 10:51:43 what are this thing? 10:52:24 :-\ 10:52:24 vaaal384: gives you completion for buffer names in the minibuffer 10:52:39 i've to download it or is already in emacs? 10:52:44 vaaal384: and then you can switch to the relevant buffer by cycling the minibuffer.... 10:52:51 vaaal384: part of emacs 10:53:00 it is part of emacs 10:53:04 cfy [~cfy@125.123.48.132] has joined #lisp 10:53:04 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.48.132] has quit [Changing host] 10:53:04 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 10:53:08 you don't have to download anything.... 10:53:31 mm 10:53:50 i just don't know why ido's minibuffer cycling is not so good like iswitchb's.... 10:54:07 tho ido is meant to be more advanced..... 10:54:29 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.92] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:54:29 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.112.143] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:48 i'm searching about iswtichb on internet, thank you 10:54:49 :) 10:57:18 I use ido 10:57:22 works quite well 10:57:51 yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has joined #lisp 10:59:26 wbooze: how do you mean? 11:02:36 omg 11:02:42 this iswitchb is awesome!!! 11:02:49 just what i wanted 11:02:49 :) 11:06:15 zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.88] has joined #lisp 11:10:13 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 11:11:52 vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.61.207] has joined #lisp 11:11:55 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:12:23 another question.. when you "quickload" a project, there is a way to open all the file of the project? 11:13:00 -!- vaaal384 [~vaaal@host3-36-dynamic.35-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:13:52 vaaal: No. 11:18:07 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:25 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.180] has joined #lisp 11:20:48 ok 11:22:17 M-. will jump to a definition in a project 11:24:11 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-owjoucznzozvnkmx] has left #lisp 11:27:37 manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-78-34-161-65.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:27:45 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:27:57 taiyall [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:30 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 11:32:22 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.146] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 11:36:51 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:46:11 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:50:37 -!- francogrex [franco@grex.cyberspace.org] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.2 (IRC client for Emacs)] 12:00:48 -!- denisu [~shelta@gemelen.net] has quit [Quit:    .    ...] 12:04:52 weg333 [~qwdddf@151.75.186.154] has joined #lisp 12:05:13 anyone knows how should i use a lisp library after I've installed it with the packet manager? 12:05:21 slime still doesn't recognize the functions 12:05:34 -!- upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:05:36 it's cl-ppcre 12:05:48 weg333: you could do (in-package :cl-ppcre) 12:05:55 weg333: What packet manager? 12:06:06 the ubuntu 12:06:07 's 12:06:21 weg333: You need to load the system into Lisp before you can use it. 12:06:23 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-237.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 12:06:25 oh, thats another story 12:06:34 weg333: Usually that means something like (asdf:load-system "cl-ppcre") 12:06:43 but i've read that asdf is obsolete 12:06:44 somewhere 12:06:54 That is wrong. 12:07:10 denisu [~shelta@gemelen.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:12 I prefer to write system files for my projects that describe what they depend on, and load that instead. 12:07:13 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:07:26 weg333: asdf != asdf-install 12:07:27 http://xach.livejournal.com/130040.html is how i used to do it. 12:07:37 http://xach.livejournal.com/278047.html is how i do it now. 12:08:05 funny, i copied the line you gave me (asdf:load-system) and it loads many files and says 0 errors, but then the functions are still not recognized 12:08:11 tnx, i 'm going to read that now 12:08:37 weg333: You have to refer to them by their full name, or arrange to not have to do that. 12:08:38 weg333: the term "package" is overloaded 12:08:57 -!- taiyall [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:09:03 weg333: packages in common lisp are not the same as packages in your ubuntu system 12:10:05 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 12:10:06 jdz, but i saw that clppcre was in the "package in the ubuntu sense" list so i thought it would install it for me 12:10:11 and take care of everything 12:10:34 weg333: Nope. In general, packages in the sense don't work especially well for Lisp libraries. 12:10:38 weg333: for all your lisp package needs: try quicklisp first 12:11:19 weg333: it has become the defacto standard the instant it was made public :) 12:11:26 xach, how do i refer to their full name? sorry i'm just starting out and i wanted to try a little project with regexs 12:12:24 weg333: the full name of a symbol is its package name followed by one or two colons followed by its symbol name. so (cl-ppcre:scan-to-strings "(([^b])*)b" "aaabd") 12:12:43 weg333: after installing quicklisp: (ql:quickload "cl-ppcre") and then (cl-ppcre:all-matches-as-strings "\\d+" "sha1337bang") 12:13:04 thank you xach, it works this way 12:13:10 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:13:31 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 12:13:31 thank you yoo madnificient, now i don't want to put too many stuff in the fire, but i will try quicklisp later 12:14:00 (btw what's the difference?) 12:14:13 weg333: the difference between what? 12:14:33 asdf and quicklisp 12:14:36 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 12:14:37 you were saying i should use the latter 12:15:04 weg333: quicklisp installs asdf packages for you. 12:15:14 weg333: so both of them are related, though one does not replace the other 12:15:24 weg333: look at quicklisp as the new asdf-install 12:15:28 (he said to use quicklisp instead of your distribution package manager for lisp systems) 12:15:37 ah, ok 12:15:41 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 12:16:13 weg333: so installing cl-ppcre would then have become (ql:quickload "cl-ppcre") once you've used that, be sure to thank Xach for building it :) 12:16:45 *Xach* rattles his tip jar 12:17:01 things for which i have to thank xach seem doomed to increase constantly 12:17:05 Xach: should've beaten nikodemus to it! 12:17:19 Wouldn't have worked, unfortunately 12:17:23 weg333: if you're used to perl you might want to take a look at cl-interpol - that allows easier regex writing (no duplicate \\ needed, etc) 12:17:30 Xach: you have a day job, right? 12:17:37 Yep. 12:18:10 oh right, i probably won't be at eclm. maybe next year (finally) 12:19:13 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:21:25 dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has joined #lisp 12:22:33 upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 12:23:13 misoczki [~misoczki@2001:660:3013:3:222:19ff:fe24:d155] has joined #lisp 12:27:06 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.61.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:28:23 Donations will help defray the cost of my ECLM trip in October. 12:30:17 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 12:30:20 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has joined #lisp 12:33:05 Xach: are there any recordings of your talks about quicklisp? 12:33:20 -!- RenJuan [~juan@cpe-72-228-177-92.buffalo.res.rr.com] has left #lisp 12:33:43 Kenjin: I don't know. I don't think so. 12:34:18 Xach: that's unfortunate. thanks 12:35:06 that sounded funny 12:35:27 "thanks for not having/making recordings of your talks..." 12:35:39 waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d850d2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:36:16 jdz: thats not what I meant :P 12:36:27 "thanks" for the information 12:36:48 -!- La0fer [~Laofers1@64.120.233.114] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:37:21 Xach: I hope there will be one from ECLM 2011 12:38:30 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 12:38:52 jdz: some people are best seen not heard? :| 12:39:38 hi Kenjin 12:39:51 hey dto :) 12:41:04 hey :) 12:42:18 dto! 12:42:44 hey is that jesse alama? 12:42:51 yeah 12:42:55 how have you been 12:42:56 long time no see 12:42:59 i'm fine, thanks 12:43:02 people were asking around for you 12:43:05 glad to see you're back :-> 12:43:09 gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has joined #lisp 12:43:57 -!- replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:44:28 -!- weg333 [~qwdddf@151.75.186.154] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 12:47:17 alama: yeah the whole affair was a bit confusing 12:47:23 alama: thanks :) 12:52:18 -!- hajovonta [xizk@usloft1077.serverloft.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:04:44 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 13:06:11 -!- gaidal [~gaidal@59.41.115.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:06:31 -!- dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dwim] 13:06:55 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 13:07:57 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:11:12 -!- gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:17:25 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:41 hm, to parenscript or not to parenscript? that is the question. I wanted to use some jQuery but at the same time... 13:21:42 optikalmouse: depends on how the JS will be implemented in your application. Is it going to be loaded from external files with Lisp serving mainly as a web service JS talks to, or is there going to be lot of inline stuff (or maybe you have ideas on how to use macros?) 13:22:45 it's mainly a web service the JS talks to 13:22:54 probably little need for parenscript, then 13:23:13 the fashion these days seems to be full-fledged JS applications which talk to an RPC or REST service 13:23:29 writing js with lisp syntax, even without using macros, is much more pleasant 13:24:12 there are now a few solutions for avoiding having to write HORRIBLE JAVASCRIPT directly 13:24:42 ArchMonkey_ [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 13:24:47 Ah, syntax chauvanism from the other direction :) 13:25:09 pnq [~nick@AC817D3D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 13:25:25 *attila_lendvai* should have written 'with lisp non-syntax' 13:26:41 -!- ArchMonkey [~ArchMonke@S0106001b63f2b998.ok.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:26:41 this is what it looks like for us: http://dwim.hu/darcsweb/darcsweb.cgi?r=HEAD%20hu.dwim.web-server;a=headblob;f=/source/js/main.dojo.lisp 13:26:41 -!- ArchMonkey_ is now known as ArchMonkey 13:27:34 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@186.212.41.39] has joined #lisp 13:27:36 interesting aspects: it has &key support, is case sensitive and has macros 13:28:23 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:29:01 attila_lendvai: is it all parenscript? 13:29:26 p_l|v6: it's the js compiler in hu.dwim.quasi-quote 13:29:32 but yes 13:30:14 vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.61.207] has joined #lisp 13:30:23 oh, and it protects against common annoying mistakes like using 'event' as a name for an argument 13:30:35 yoooo i've made it: my neural network has learned to do a sum 13:30:56 it trasparently renames reserved keywords 13:30:57 holy crap, what have you done with dojo.js!!! poor child!!! ;) 13:31:15 -!- scorpil [~voffka@77.127.74.139] has left #lisp 13:31:55 nuba: I'm only using it, but to be honest it can be annoying. they change direction every half a year 13:33:17 I agree with the trend of js frontend + REST backend, doing it now, with a perl (using catalyst) backend, dojo on the frontend. 13:34:00 *p_l|v6* actually recently looks into passing around ASN.1 on raw connection... :P 13:34:17 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-78-34-161-65.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 13:34:20 if someone is interested in the ugly compiled output, it's available here: http://dwim.hu/hdws/js/main.dojo.js?_ts=4116 13:35:13 we started with jquery+jquerymobile but it was too page-centric and things turned into spaghetti code really fast, so we window shopped js frameworks and microframeworks a little, like dojo more in the end.. 13:35:18 attila_lendvai: you need to switch to qooxdoo 13:35:23 attila_lendvai: I've thought about doing lisp-syntax js sometimes, but I'm afraid I'd miss the tools a lot (e.g. completion, arglists, etc). Is that a problem in practice? 13:35:46 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 13:36:09 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 13:36:45 Xach: don't know. we don't have much js code, and I've never used dev tools for js, so... but on the other hand, I would think the syntax and macros compensate that. e.g. &key support is highly convenient... 13:37:49 felideon: I've just extended our framwork to accommodate multiple js stacks (dojo and sencha for now), so we'll see 13:37:50 attila_lendvai: very interesting, thanks for sharing :) 13:39:10 Hi attila_lendvai: what I sometimes miss is a translator from js to quasi-quoted (lispy) js 13:39:29 for small snippets and such 13:39:45 kami: hey! that's way too much work, so don't hold your breadth... :) 13:40:13 TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:40:15 kami: but fyi, I've fixed that long standing ff 3.6+ bug 13:40:35 attila_lendvai: great! What was it? 13:41:34 attila_lendvai: is it already on dwim.hu? 13:42:02 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 13:42:36 .getAttribute didn't return an attribute whose local-name was the same, but wasn't in any xml namespace. happens only when the dom nodes come from an xml xhr response, so I refactored how we emit dojo widgets and now it's valid xhtml5 13:42:47 kami: yes, it's on dwim.hu now 13:44:32 attila_lendvai: so, my Firebug wasn't insane, as I thought! 13:44:50 *attila_lendvai* moves it to #dwim.hu 13:45:44 iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:21 <_8david> Xach: which tools are you using for that purpose? 13:51:23 <_8david> (if there are useful tools for arglists and completion in JS, I must be using the wrong tools) 13:51:59 rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has joined #lisp 13:52:29 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.61.207] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:53:03 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:54:39 good tool would be a hook into slime to support external tags (or simply use ETAGS) 13:54:39 _8david: I mean I would miss the CL tools (slime) 13:54:51 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Quit: Offline] 13:55:00 _8david: for some reason when I'm writing straight js-syntax js I don't expect it to be all that supportive. 13:56:40 <_8david> OK, I see. 13:56:47 <_8david> I'm sure ivan4th will fix it! 13:57:43 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:58:13 Xach: did you see my notes about your ASDF bug? 13:58:30 *_8david* doesn't actually use swank-js yet, but it seems promising 13:58:57 rpg: yes. don't really understand it. 14:01:42 Xach: it turns out that when you redefine the system, ASDF does not create a new SYSTEM object; it tries to reuse the old one. 14:01:58 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.178.203] has joined #lisp 14:02:00 In general, you get an incoherent jumble of new and old system definitions. 14:02:48 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:03:56 *Xach* understands that sounds bad 14:05:25 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 14:05:49 What I can't understand from the code is why ASDF ever thought this was a good idea.... I wonder why the old definition is not wiped out on a reload. I guess because often there are only trivial changes... 14:05:58 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:06:09 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:07:06 A Quicklisp user brought this to my attention. Since I recommend overriding Quicklisp projects with project directories registered outside the Quicklisp directory structure, it introduced this issue with a system that included more files than the old one. 14:07:12 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:56 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:08:35 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:09:26 usocket, specifically 14:11:00 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:11:58 _8david: fyi, I'm cleaning up the ssl error queue reading and reporting in cl-plus-ssl, I'll send you the results when recorded. what initiated it: I need to read info about the errors, so that I can ignore http hello and stuff like that in the error logging... 14:12:32 <_8david> attila_lendvai: OK. (Please send it to the list for Anton's benefit!) 14:13:04 ok 14:16:13 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:19:54 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 14:20:32 Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 14:23:20 Xach: I can see why this happens, and I believe I can fix it, but I'm not sure how much baby will go with the bathwater. 14:25:26 rpg: remember the end of Cronenberg's "The Fly"? 14:25:28 -!- waaaaargh [~waaaaargh@agsb-5d850d2e.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: WTF? leaving!] 14:25:30 That's what the asdf baby reminds me of 14:25:32 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has joined #lisp 14:25:32 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-nknhsgvjkyiyucwi] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:26:25 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:27:28 Xach: it's Rosemary's, actually. 14:27:49 Seriously, I'm worried about breaking other stuff. 14:27:53 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:29:12 does anybody know what the annotatable CLIM spec has been created from? 14:30:23 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:30:43 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 14:31:49 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 14:31:52 probably Gilbert Baumann does 14:33:23 jdz: I find myself unable to resist the temptation to respond, "bits." 14:34:37 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:35:10 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-yddmspjbnrqnirvh] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:35:32 rpg: yeah, very useful bit of information. 14:35:38 serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06cc16.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 14:35:40 Hello! 14:36:21 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 14:36:37 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:36:46 Xach/rpg: When I got the email about the recent ASDF issue I was surprised .... 14:36:48 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.42] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:36:58 -!- Guest43566 is now known as reb 14:37:18 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:37:53 Why? 14:38:19 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:38:55 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 14:39:17 I think there are a couple of reasonable choices for dealing with a changed system definition .... 14:39:52 You can throw everything away or you can try to figure out the differences betwee the new configuration and the old one and handle them correctly. 14:40:04 I prefer "throw away" 14:40:19 In the second case, there will likely be instances where you throw up your hands and revert to strategy #1. 14:40:52 ... because you can't categorize the difference as "new file added" or "new dependency for foo" ... 14:40:59 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:41:09 urandom__ [~user@p548A3487.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:14 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:49:26 rbuck [~rbuck@66-189-68-77.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:53 -!- anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-54-114.access.telenet.be] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:51:24 tsuru [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:45 -!- pnq [~nick@AC817D3D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:52:04 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.178.203] has quit [Quit: Offline] 14:53:35 oh, it appears McCLIM contains the TeX source of the spec 14:53:56 It does, yes. 14:54:43 That's what gilberth used to create the annotatable online spec I would think. 14:54:57 beach: hello! any progress on CLIM3? 14:55:09 Not right now. 14:55:14 Busy with other stuff. 14:55:26 ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has joined #lisp 14:55:38 -!- ivan-kanis [~user@nantes.visionobjects.com] has left #lisp 14:55:51 jdz: I hope to get into a steady state soon, so that I can start working normally again. 14:58:20 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:59:32 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 14:59:44 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:00:06 sorry --- I was away for a while... 15:00:48 reb: I don't see an algorithm for "figure out the differences and handle them correctly," so I'm inclined to think the only correct thing is throw away... 15:01:00 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:01:21 trying to figure out the differences seems to me to be a not-very-well characterized graph isomorphism problem... 15:02:39 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: Bye] 15:02:44 -!- misoczki [~misoczki@2001:660:3013:3:222:19ff:fe24:d155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:04:05 -!- ehu [~ehuels@109.37.210.145] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:09:32 Does anyone with aquamacs know if there is a way to make scrolling a bit more smoothly 15:09:51 aka pixel-scrolling rather than by line 15:10:02 it's just insane now in lion 15:11:32 yvdriess: I think you're in the wrong channel. 15:13:22 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-58.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 15:16:35 srolls [~user@c-76-126-212-192.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:18:07 rpg: yes, in general it's very hard, but handling special cases is very useful for interactive development 15:19:18 yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 15:22:15 arun_rathakrishn [~arun@117.193.157.41] has joined #lisp 15:22:17 reb: Well, I am getting more and more convinced that I need to push a patch to ASDF that throws out the old SYSTEM objects. I would be willing to entertain patches going forward that would handle special cases. 15:22:33 But I'm reluctant to see ASDF turn into a big hairball of special cases.... 15:26:42 ping 15:26:44 -!- TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: nyan :P] 15:26:56 I don't think throwing away the old system objects is right 15:27:02 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 15:27:14 -!- rbuck [~rbuck@66-189-68-77.dhcp.oxfr.ma.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:27:22 at least, it potentially loses on the use case of specalized methods on operate which specialize on (eql (find-system 'my-system)) 15:28:40 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:29:25 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:29:49 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:29:51 -!- mvilleneuve [~mvilleneu@LLagny-156-36-4-214.w80-14.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 15:30:23 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:24 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:25 TDT_ [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 15:32:38 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:33:08 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.234] has joined #lisp 15:34:18 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 15:34:23 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:34:23 -!- TDT_ is now known as TDT 15:34:32 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 15:34:44 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 15:40:53 -!- rstandy [~rastandy@93-63-185-248.ip29.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:41:04 Kryztof: But those methods will be redefined when the FIND-SYSTEM is executed, not so? 15:41:33 I.e., there should never be a case in which the DEFSYSTEM is reevaluated and corresponding EQL methods are not. 15:42:18 Ugh. It does seem like the old method definitions might become useless zombies. 15:42:48 I've been thinking that having named methods might help with that. 15:43:29 That said if you have system BAR that depends on system FOO, and system BAR defines methods specialized by EQL on the system FOO object.... 15:44:52 Kryztof: the alternative, it seems to me is that we would have to figure out how to keep the SYSTEM object while trashing the contents of all of its slots.... 15:45:10 would that be an acceptable fix? 15:47:54 for me, yes 15:48:19 of course next you'll find that some lunatic has subclassed SYSTEM somehow to add new slots 15:49:37 milanj [~milanj_@93-86-115-66.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 15:50:24 Kryztof: Right. I need to refresh my knowledge of CLOS introspection to see if it's possible to say "clear ALL of my slots" without invoking the dread MOP. 15:50:32 it is not 15:51:36 Kryztof: Then we may be stuck with killing the entire SYSTEM object. Right now it behaves unacceptably badly --- ASDF gives you a strange disjunction of the old and new system definitions when a system definition is reloaded. 15:53:00 (defun clear-all-slots (object) (do-all-symbols (slot-name) (when (slot-exists-p object slot-name) (setf (slot-value object slot-name) nil)))) 15:53:09 haha 15:53:31 in general that is undefined if any slots have type declarations that don't include nil 15:53:36 but good try! 15:53:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@213.162.68.88] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:53:59 rpg: how is the current redefinition handled? With reinitialize-instance? 15:54:15 if so, isn't the answer to be careful when parsing components not to reuse anything? 15:54:41 i.e. I imagine the reload eventually doing (reinitialize-instance :components ) 15:55:14 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-155-92.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:56:08 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:56:41 lpgl [~user@vzn18-1-88-165-200-27.fbx.proxad.net] has joined #lisp 15:57:39 Kryztof: Good point. Right. Maybe I can simply fix the reinitialize instance method. Right now information like operation times is being conserved over reload. 15:57:49 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 15:59:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:59:59 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-191-207.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 16:01:15 TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 16:02:11 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 16:02:22 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:04:05 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Client Quit] 16:04:15 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:04:20 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 16:05:10 actually, I thought I understood this, but I am less sure now. 16:06:03 heh. I think that the system object needs to be preserved, because it's externally visible, but that all its components should be fresh and new 16:06:19 but this is only using my memory of the code and its operation, not actually any knowledge of it from the last few years 16:06:38 Kryztof: Isn't getting reinitialize to work just as bad as my original question about clearing all the slots? We want all the slots cleared, because the slots contain cached information that is no longer valid. I don't believe that clearing the components slot is enough, because information cached on the system itself will be invalid. 16:07:10 it's not so much about the slots but the identity of their contents 16:08:01 it doesn't matter if there's a cache that says "we've already done load-op on # if the new component is # 16:08:31 I should probably look at the code rather than talk in generalities 16:08:36 Hm. Good point. But I think there's a notion of the operation having been performed on the system itself. 16:08:48 but the system will be newer 16:09:08 Kryztof: weirdly, the system operations don't depend on the .asd file.... 16:09:32 Kryztof: I think I can clear the cache of operations in a reinitialize-instance :after method, though... 16:10:20 Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 16:10:31 that's another possibility 16:11:16 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 16:11:26 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:12:03 billstcalir [~billstcla@p-209-105-142-11.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:30 browse-dev 16:13:31 -!- iwillig [~ivan@ool-ad03c1a0.dyn.optonline.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:13:39 -!- lpgl [~user@vzn18-1-88-165-200-27.fbx.proxad.net] has quit [Quit: bye.] 16:13:55 ^ThE_UniX_GuY^ [~bsdboy@ggn.ixigo.net] has joined #lisp 16:13:55 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:13:57 The more I look at the component classes, the more I think some introspection would help, because the reinitialize-instance methods are going to be brittle... 16:14:14 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:14:25 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.234] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:42 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.234] has joined #lisp 16:15:03 rpg: clrhashing component-operation-times in a reinitialize-instance :after on component looks like it might fix things 16:15:04 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:15:17 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 16:15:26 Kryztof: If I understand the protocol well enough, I believe that the only slots I need to worry about are the ones that have INITFORMS, correct? 16:15:44 I haven't thought about it that deeply I'm afraid 16:15:48 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:17:00 Kryztof: Yes, I think that solves that problem, but then there are things like INLINE-METHODS, etc. 16:17:01 -!- simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:17:06 -!- lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 16:17:22 I am not certain I have a solution beyond "read all of the slot descriptions and decide how to handle each individually." 16:18:04 #stumpwm 16:18:07 yes. But at least the "subclass of system" solves itself -- it's the subclasser's responsibility to do the right thing for their slots 16:18:15 ha, whooops 16:18:34 Interestingly, when the component descriptions are parsed, we make an instance or retrieve it, then NO MATTER WHETHER this is new or old, we reinitialize. 16:18:48 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 16:20:16 So I believe that the only difference between handling a fresh component and a stale one is that the fresh one will have its INITFORMs processed. 16:21:58 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 16:22:30 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 16:23:02 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:23:24 that sounds at least plausible 16:24:13 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 16:24:17 The problem for me is that when I try to write a REINITIALIZE-INSTANCE :after method I have to worry that it's actually being used to *initialize*. :-( 16:24:34 But I can modify the code to distinguish the two cases. 16:24:52 Still, it makes me handle logic that normally CL would do for me. 16:25:11 *Xach* opens cans of worms 16:25:38 nhonhonho_ [~nhonhonho@187.112.103.201] has joined #lisp 16:26:47 OK, I think that was just done to avoid code duplications... 16:27:00 I will dash for a little to get a sandwich and return. 16:27:28 -!- nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@186.212.41.39] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:28:19 lonstein [lonstein@ohno.mrbill.net] has joined #lisp 16:28:27 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 16:28:41 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has left #lisp 16:30:06 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 16:30:59 dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 16:32:34 nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has joined #lisp 16:32:38 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has joined #lisp 16:34:55 -!- nefo [~nefo@unaffiliated/nefo] has quit [Client Quit] 16:37:40 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 16:38:49 SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@173.228.45.162] has joined #lisp 16:40:11 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.74] has joined #lisp 16:41:29 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.165.74] has quit [Changing host] 16:41:29 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:42:37 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 16:44:27 jdz [~jdz@host132-14-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has joined #lisp 16:53:47 -!- Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 16:54:25 wccoder [~wccoder@S01060026f3c6bad7.no.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:55:15 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:55:26 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 16:56:03 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.22] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:56:47 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-134-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:58:58 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 17:06:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:06:44 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:06:49 -!- upper [~upper@204.195.141.62] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:07:24 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 17:08:01 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:08:04 EvanR-work [~evan@unaffiliated/evanr] has joined #lisp 17:08:13 mysql bindings? 17:09:56 yes 17:10:21 heh was confused if that was a question or a statement. 17:10:38 -!- xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:10:43 k where 17:11:01 clsql 17:11:10 great 17:11:27 The IRC protocol doesn't limit your messages to 144 characters... 17:11:48 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:11:55 EvanR-work: you can state complete and gramatically correct sentencces here. 17:12:06 sentences* 17:12:08 no u 17:12:13 (that was too perfect <3) 17:12:20 saving traffic~ 17:12:21 ... just remember to use a line-splitting plugin. 17:12:22 ! 17:12:26 muphrey's law 17:12:31 EvanR-work: furthermore, a lot of people just /ignore SMS messages... 17:12:48 kthxbye 17:13:34 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:13:50 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 17:13:51 this is the first time i went somewhere and people were complaining about saying too *little* lol, usually we complain about spam or using too many PRIVMSG in a given time interval 17:14:22 EvanR-work: We're a bit more mature than other channels. 17:14:40 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 17:14:43 as long as you don't floodor talk too much off topic, we probably won't complain too terribly much. 17:14:57 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:15:22 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 17:15:23 rtoyg [~chatzilla@nat/google/x-cginyegzwmihopvu] has joined #lisp 17:16:27 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 17:18:18 i think pjb is prejudiced against mysql so hes harassing me in particular 17:18:19 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:18:37 who isn't? 17:18:45 an unfortunate number 17:18:57 i am, but i'm protesting silently 17:20:08 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 17:20:47 EvanR-work: when in Rome... rtfm. 17:21:03 EvanR-work: most people in this channel have rather significant dislike towards MySQL, and various practices MySQL team and their users promoted for years 17:21:17 im not surprised 17:21:25 at least the people active and who talked about databases :) 17:21:45 *sykopomp* hasn't seen mysql hate -- has seen postgres love. 17:21:49 Yeahcan't say I have a particular dislike toward mysqlI don't use it, prefer postgresql, but I dont exactly hate it either. 17:22:06 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.162.180] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:22:19 CLSQL is compatible with AllegroCL, Lispworks, SBCL, CMUCL, and OpenMCL. does that mean it is incompatible with clisp? 17:22:34 that's why I wrote "dislike" rather than hate... sometimes it feels like "meh, have a nickel and get yourself a proper database" :) 17:22:46 lol 17:23:21 screw databases, we'll do it with s-exps 17:23:23 pgsql has gotten quite expensive it seems 17:23:39 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:24:00 and postgresql was originally written in lisp, so no wonder 17:24:15 really? 17:24:17 was it? I didn't know that 17:24:18 stassats: i've been wishing it still was ;/ 17:24:27 alama: yes 17:24:33 stassats: more like screw databases, 48 bits of address space is enough. 17:24:43 EvanR-work: it relies on uffi, which does not work on CLISP. 17:24:49 ok 17:25:08 oGMo: too bad hardware in the 80s wasn't that great 17:25:24 EvanR-work: cl-mysql uses cffi and might work on clisp. 17:25:31 noted 17:25:36 stassats: heh 17:25:40 is SBCL recommended more 17:25:43 Is there any straightforward way to provide a new primary method for reinitialize-instance that will change the way shared-initialize is invoked? 17:25:47 stassats: implementations weren't all that either. 17:26:34 Seems like to change this one aspect of the behavior I would need to replicate all the standard behavior, and I'm not sure how to do that... 17:26:46 pkhuong: one of main concerns was that they consumed too much memory, they do still, but the memory is just cheaper 17:27:21 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 17:29:13 stassats: it's a design goal issue now. If we were to take the modern implementation know-how for lisp and java-like languages i think it would be possible (if not cost-effective) to obey the old resources limits 17:30:33 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:34:44 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-226-114-237.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:36:05 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 17:36:26 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 17:36:53 tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has joined #lisp 17:36:58 *Xach* uses LDIFF in a non-contrived way for the first time ever 17:37:07 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Client Quit] 17:37:23 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 17:38:16 EvanR-work: I wouldn't say it's more recommended, but it may be more widely used. I personally use sbclbut I'm not sure if others do, or how popular it is in comparison to say clisp. 17:38:32 Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:40:19 SBCL is by far the most popular Common Lisp implementation, and Clozure CL is second. 17:40:46 rgrinberg [~rudi@CPE001839b36a63-CM0016923fe746.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 17:41:31 hey Xach. 17:42:21 seangrove [~user@c-24-6-209-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:42:23 I should look into clozurecl sometime..heard it can integrate with osx graphics somehow. 17:42:47 TDT: Yeah, there's a bridge to call Objective-C methods. 17:43:13 That's pretty cool..considering I use a mac, maybe helpful if I ever wanted to create some gui thing. 17:50:38 -!- yvdriess [~Beef@soft85.vub.ac.be] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:52:36 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 17:55:19 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:56:24 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: quitting] 17:56:48 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 17:58:26 -!- tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 18:01:36 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 18:02:41 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 18:03:53 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:05:18 pkhuong: 48bits address space? I raise you 128bit single address space... and it still has SQL-capable database added, mainly to support outside (and provide single point for management of those 2^128 bits) 18:05:32 tempire [~tempire@pool-72-91-241-135.tampfl.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 18:09:13 TDT: i'm also thinking of using ccl to do some mac gui stuff 18:12:54 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:13:03 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:13:43 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 18:14:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 18:15:02 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 18:15:22 -!- arun_rathakrishn [~arun@117.193.157.41] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:20:43 TDT_ [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:23:02 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:25:09 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 18:25:26 rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has joined #lisp 18:25:48 -!- TDT_ [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 18:26:47 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:31:59 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-11-182.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 18:32:06 xan_ [~xan@96.Red-88-27-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 18:32:53 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 18:33:40 -!- buguldey [~buguldey@client-64-4.sibtele.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:33:52 buguldey [~buguldey@client-64-4.sibtele.com] has joined #lisp 18:34:05 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has quit [Client Quit] 18:34:33 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:34:54 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 18:41:30 -!- dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Quit: dwim] 18:43:22 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has joined #lisp 18:43:30 -!- Joreji [~thomas@77-23-251-130-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 18:44:05 HG` [~HG@p579F7706.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 18:45:57 -!- bhaskara [~user@gw.willowgarage.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 18:49:19 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:49:59 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 18:50:42 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has left #lisp 18:51:35 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 18:53:45 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 18:53:59 beach` [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-94-185.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 18:54:02 TeMPOraL [~user@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust444.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 18:54:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.234] has quit [Quit: Offline] 18:54:30 TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 18:55:56 -!- cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 18:56:11 -!- stassats [~stassats@wikipedia/stassats] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 18:58:04 -!- beach [~user@ABordeaux-552-1-94-185.w92-162.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 18:58:33 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.142.186.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 19:00:24 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.163.239] has joined #lisp 19:00:25 srcerer [~chatzilla@dns2.klsairexpress.com] has joined #lisp 19:02:22 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:02:56 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 19:03:03 cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has joined #lisp 19:04:12 -!- rlb3 [~rlb@ng1.cptxoffice.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPad - http://colloquy.mobi] 19:04:49 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-11-182.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:06:00 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.169] has joined #lisp 19:16:30 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl19-244-166.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 19:16:38 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has joined #lisp 19:19:02 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 19:19:34 nano- [nano@xmms2/developer/nano] has joined #lisp 19:21:43 I'm new to lisp and I have some problems managing file handles, I constructed the following code http://pastie.org/2472566 which chains the output and input together for a number of commands and return a stream to the tail, it can probably rewritten to one function, but the problem i have is the closing of the handles as in my full script I obviously run into too many open files. So my question is how to fix this, while keeping it nice and stuff. 19:21:50 -!- xan_ [~xan@96.Red-88-27-16.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:22:43 -!- seangrove [~user@c-24-6-209-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:22:44 nano-: I think I solved this problem adequately in my csv lib, one sec while I gin up a link 19:22:55 ah, cool! 19:22:57 -!- TDT [~TDT@dhcpw80ffc035.dynamic.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 19:23:28 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:24:00 bobbysmith007: you know what i have used a lot from csv-parser recently? 19:24:13 bobbysmith007: map-csv-file can be very handy 19:24:48 cool, mine has that as well though not that name 19:24:57 What is it called? 19:25:36 Kenjin [~josesanto@2.80.244.166] has joined #lisp 19:25:42 nano-: https://github.com/bobbysmith007/cl-csv/blob/master/csv.lisp#L71 pay attention to with-csv-output-stream and %out-stream (there is a similar structure for in-streams) 19:26:00 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 19:26:46 the read-csv function takes a row-fn or map-fn (for a streaming interface or direct mapping read) https://github.com/bobbysmith007/cl-csv/blob/master/csv.lisp#L244 19:27:06 ah ok 19:28:24 bobbysmith007: is string used as the name of the file? or is it meant to contain the csv data directly? 19:28:49 pathnames contain file names and strings are interpretted as raw data I believe 19:29:36 I tried to make that one function arg cover all my use cases, to be honest I was a little surprised I managed it (so far) 19:29:41 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:29:51 bobbysmith007: ah. map-csv-file rolls all that up into (map-csv-file file fun) 19:30:24 includes a :skip-lines arg so you can skip the header line conveniently. 19:31:14 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:31:21 ahh cool, I handle that more poorly would be my guess (in that you would probably need to manually skip it in the map/row fn) 19:31:36 might try to add that in, seems like a good keyword 19:32:25 TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 19:32:41 It's not a very general function, but it fits what I've needed to do a lot lately. 19:33:20 -!- katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:33:25 Xach: I actually tend to use a data-table in memory for the most part (because it will automatically give me proper lisp types after a lengthy analysis of the data), and only use the streaming interface stuff in the rare circumstance that I have a much too large data set 19:33:31 *nano-* tries to shrinkwrap that to fit into brain :) 19:33:49 katesmith [~katesmith@unaffiliated/costume] has joined #lisp 19:33:52 *Xach* will check out data-table 19:33:56 pnq [~nick@ACA2114C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 19:36:54 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:36:59 bobbysmith007: If I understand it correctly it does indeed abstract the closing. But in my case I call my pipe function recursively and connect the previous output to the next output. Not sure where is the proper way to close, or am I misinterpreting you totally? 19:37:34 Will closing of the last stream in the chain close the others? 19:39:36 Chunga does some (defmethod close ((stream whatever-stream) &key abort) ...). 19:39:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.179.169] has quit [Quit: Offline] 19:39:49 When loading it, I get a style-warning 19:39:52 nano-: ahh I think I see the difference now, I needed the first/outermost function call to close the stream (through arbitrary calls in between), you need the stream to close when everything is done processing, which might be after the "first" function is done (ie after it would have called close on the stream) 19:39:53 "Generic function CLOSE clobbers an earlier FTYPE proclamation (FUNCTION (STREAM &KEY (:ABORT T)) (VALUES (MEMBER T) &OPTIONAL)) for the same name with (FUNCTION (T &KEY (:ABORT T)) *)." 19:40:14 nano-: does that sum it up? 19:40:29 Xach: a down side is that all my dates tend to be clsql centric, because thats where i tend to need to get this data too eventually and that is reflected in the libraries 19:40:48 bobbysmith007: ah. i am dealing with a lot of crud slurped out of spreadsheets into CSV files. 19:41:01 What can I do about that? 19:41:15 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:41:30 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-9-65-95.as13285.net] has quit [Quit: "let's see what this does"] 19:41:42 serichsen: How are you loading it? 19:41:44 bobbysmith007: When closing the output of the tail command, I need the rest of the streams in the chain to close aswell. So lets say I connect three commands, "ls -l", "awk '{print $1}'", "sort -n" (not that they makes ense, but to make a point), ls stdout -> stdin for awk, which stdout -> stdin for sort which leaves it stdout to the caller. 19:41:56 Xach: load-system 19:41:59 nano-: close recursively. 19:42:01 Xach: that is pretty much my workflow in reverse (mine: CSV->DATABASE to combine it->Spreadsheet) 19:42:14 pkhuong: Is close recursive, or what do you mean? 19:43:08 or I should instead send a body into the function, and for each command send stdin to the next recursion? 19:43:18 nano-: I'm assuming a strict pipeline here. When you connect a command (e.g. ls) to another (e.g. awk), the latter is now responsible for closing the former, when it, itself is closed. 19:43:24 bobbysmith007: i also have to generate spreadsheets, which makes me jealous of Perl's nice excel generator library. 19:44:04 Xach: I ended up using, buildnode / CXML:Dom and outputing spreadsheet XML, which just barely meets their "must output excel" needs 19:44:27 Xach: cl+ssl has the same problem. 19:44:29 bobbysmith007: MS Office spreadsheet xml? 19:44:42 Xach: I use that in my apps. works great! 19:44:49 Xach: yeah, I think so... its whatever dialect excel handles 19:45:02 bobbysmith007: get to open-sourcing it! 19:45:15 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:45:33 the perl doesn't look hard to port, or rewrite from scratch, but it would be nice if someone else did the work instead 19:45:37 (mine is strictly targetted at generating the XML for one specific purpose though) 19:45:52 Xach: ask and ye shall receive (a few months ago) https://github.com/bobbysmith007/buildnode/blob/master/buildnode-excel.asd 19:45:53 serichsen: odd. normally that's just adding methods to the gray stream gf, i think. 19:45:58 might even already be in quicklisp 19:46:16 bobbysmith007: it is, thanks. i'll give it a whirl. 19:46:18 Xach: I spoke too soon. I now accept your apology for zs3/cloudfront.lisp. 19:46:25 I even documented it a little: https://github.com/bobbysmith007/buildnode/blob/master/examples/excel.lisp 19:46:38 bobbysmith007: nifty! 19:46:58 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.131] has joined #lisp 19:47:41 bobbysmith007: that is going to save me a lot of hassle. thanks. 19:47:57 Xach: awesome, really glad to here it! 19:48:01 -!- nhonhonho_ [~nhonhonho@187.112.103.201] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:48:10 hear hear 19:48:17 indeed 19:48:38 bobbysmith007: this is going to replace my tab-delimited hacks. Thanks! 19:49:22 Xach: fair warning though, it has only been used by me and only on that one project, there might be some questionable spreadsheet styling going on by default 19:49:36 I wrote a program that converts multi-hundred-megabyte billing files into spreadsheets, but the last weak link in the pipeline is a perl script that assembles CSV files into visually appealing sheets. 19:49:52 If I can ditch the perl bit, I can make a standalone CL binary that is easier to manage. 19:51:24 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 19:53:07 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 19:53:09 Xach: mine is doing budget auditing for a semigovernmental agency, and my last step is to produce a giant spreadsheet that goes to the state oversite people. They sound very similar 19:53:40 oversight 19:54:52 *p_l|v6* once wrote code to create Excel XML spreadsheets (2003 variant, not xslx) by hand 19:55:40 p_l|v6: so did I. I even had to do it in Java :-/ 19:55:46 Jasko [~tjasko@209.74.44.225] has joined #lisp 19:55:56 Soulman [~knute@198.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 19:55:57 in my case, it's to support copy/paste to/from excel. 19:56:00 works great too. 19:56:12 I had Python (it was embedded into MoinMoin as alternative page output) 19:56:22 p_l|v6: yeah this xml is, I believe, the 2003 variant 19:56:56 I wonder if the HR dept ever noticed they were getting a completely different file than the one they wanted us to fill in... 19:57:02 does the xslx format make it easier now? 19:57:07 heh 19:58:00 p_l|v6: we used to have to fill out timesheets. i had a lisp hack that watched my screensaver daily and produced a PDF that *looked* like a printed excel spreadsheet with my in/out times. i would just print it out and sign it once a week... 19:58:05 felideon: it's a different one, but iirc slightly more complex. Some people also pointed out that the new format doesn't really fit well 19:58:48 Xach: mine was also a timesheet, for "on call" times gathered from a table on the Wiki... of course, the spreadsheet didn't fit to our work at all 19:58:59 so I had to add code to generate apropriately split entries 20:00:02 Guthur [~Guthur@host86-148-139-112.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 20:01:05 dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 20:02:20 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:02:35 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:02:41 realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:02:45 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:03:02 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 20:04:37 -!- cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:06:00 lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 20:06:08 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:06:14 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:07:35 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 20:07:51 blah, after much thinking, apparently the best way to pass complicated tree like structure to my C library is probably write simple sexp parser 20:08:45 maxm: that's done before. you can just copy the code. 20:08:50 maxm: Subversion has one. 20:09:01 ahh cool have url by any chance? 20:09:02 (their wire protocol consists of sexps) 20:09:35 got it 20:12:51 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-177-107.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:13:52 -!- p_l|v6 [~pl@cl-350.lon-02.gb.sixxs.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:16:01 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-177-107.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 20:17:08 cbrannon [~cbrannon@gentoo/developer/cbrannon] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:19:21 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:21:21 jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-11-182.iburst.co.za] has joined #lisp 20:21:52 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 20:22:28 rwiker [~rwiker@111.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 20:23:18 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:23:18 -!- realitygrill_ is now known as realitygrill 20:25:35 -!- rwiker [~rwiker@111.84-48-40.nextgentel.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:25:57 -!- dfox [~dfox@ip-94-113-17-246.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:28:13 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:28:51 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 20:29:51 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:30:01 francogrex [~user@109.130.158.58] has joined #lisp 20:35:21 Xach: I am a bit confused. None of my installed systems explicitly do a defgeneric close. 20:35:30 tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has joined #lisp 20:42:43 ASau [~user@93-80-104-193.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:48:45 -!- dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has quit [Ping timeout: 272 seconds] 20:48:56 serichsen: it's part of sbcl. 20:49:00 M-. cl:close 20:52:02 Xach: ah, found it. 20:52:19 -!- tfb [~tfb@restormel.cley.com] has quit [Quit: gone] 20:56:03 rbuck [~rbuck@mobile-198-228-199-089.mycingular.net] has joined #lisp 20:56:50 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-177-107.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:56:51 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 20:59:31 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:59:45 anvandare [~anvandare@78-21-54-19.access.telenet.be] has joined #lisp 21:00:01 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 21:00:27 ABCL moved into production on a large web-based ERP provider. 21:00:48 ehu: wow nice 21:00:54 yea :-) 21:01:04 SucklinPig [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:01:09 it's hooked up to provide web services. 21:01:33 (total application size apart from ABCL: 12GB) 21:02:13 quite a serious application with several hundred concurrent users. 21:02:33 (not that ABCL is currently servicing all users yet) 21:02:33 12GB? 21:02:36 yes 21:02:44 Xach: I have a suspicion. Maybe there is an ftype declaration for the original cl:close _function_, before it gets replaced by (setf (fdefinition 'close) #'pcl-close) in gray-streams.lisp. 21:02:45 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:02:58 ehu: ram usage, data, code size, ? 21:03:14 Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has joined #lisp 21:03:23 oGMo: RAM usage of non-unloadable data. 21:03:27 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:03:31 kennyd [~kennyd@93-138-98-69.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:03:32 oGMo: so, mostly Java classes etc. 21:03:32 ehu: erk 21:04:01 ABCL will be used to unload services 21:04:06 which Java won't do atm 21:04:50 12Gb is pretty high fo ra web app or somethingwhat does it do? 21:05:02 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-099-078-185.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:06:37 good question .. stuff i've seen is consideraby smaller serving considerably more 21:07:16 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:08:37 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:08:50 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 21:09:20 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 21:10:52 tdt, oGMo: it's a ledger, project accounting and planning, HR accounting and management and several other modules I've not been able to investigate yet. 21:11:08 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-157-58.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:11:24 (ledger being accounting, AR, AP, fixed assets depreciation, invoicing) 21:11:37 sure 21:11:42 -!- rbuck [~rbuck@mobile-198-228-199-089.mycingular.net] has quit [Quit: rbuck gone away...] 21:11:57 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 21:12:01 i wonder if they're doing some prevalence thing 21:13:37 nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:13:40 chu: Yeah, still seems a bit large, all as one app that is. heh. I don't do much with java so if you're using tomcat for hosting then... 21:13:45 no idea. I just get to look at the screens :-) 21:15:07 I feel like I haven't been in web development for so long..and it's only been really a year I've been in research..heh 21:15:29 i'm not sure i'll ever feel it's been long enough 21:15:54 anyway, the point was that ABCL is being used professionally by more people than just me. 21:17:05 oGMo: not a fan of web development eh? what do you do? 21:17:47 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.158.58] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:18:00 ehu: but yeah that's cool 21:18:19 Xach: Yeah, I think I have it. There is a (declare (type ansi-stream stream)), but ansi-stream is just (deftype ansistream () 'stream). 21:18:24 -!- hyko- is now known as hyko 21:18:34 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 21:18:52 TDT: working on my own stuff privately .. building a lisp gui right now, but that's sortof just a side project, or the basis for others 21:19:17 TDT: but no, i really don't like the OS the browser has grown into 21:20:13 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:20:35 I can understand that. 21:20:55 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@c-98-217-188-86.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 21:21:08 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:21:13 realitygrill_ [~realitygr@adsl-76-232-155-131.dsl.sfldmi.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 21:21:25 I used to do more web development, and hope to get back into it again sometimeat least at home some more. Preferably some project that involves lisp and web development to test withbut we'll see. I don't have terribly much free time to get into that. 21:23:37 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has left #lisp 21:23:52 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@iburst-41-213-11-182.iburst.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:24:39 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 21:25:06 i want native coding back. with today's resources, you can do amazing things 21:28:18 sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 21:29:00 oGMo, C is nearly always available, I would imagine 21:30:33 Guthur: if i wanted a headache, i have a rubber mallet ;) 21:32:09 well, think, it could always be worse you could be using C++ 21:33:13 at least C is honest, C++ tries to foul people into thinking its a high level OO language 21:33:38 but there's lisp 21:33:54 i love it when i write code that works right away 21:34:02 no no, C++ is a *functional* language! 21:34:22 s/\*f/ 21:34:24 dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 21:34:32 s/\*f/*disf/ 21:34:36 C++ is the system where you spend eternity designing your thoughts around the insane type system 21:37:33 lanthan [~ze@p54B7B3F0.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:46 Is there a way to disable specific style warnings in SBCL? I would like to ignore "implicitly creating generic function". 21:38:19 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:38:39 -!- sodel [~dralston_@S0106687f74a12729.va.shawcable.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:39:54 why don't you just create the generic function? 21:40:20 MoALTz [~no@host-92-18-74-94.as13285.net] has joined #lisp 21:40:44 I admit I'm guilty of rarely doing (defgeneric...) and getting lots of those warnings 21:41:15 i admit i have a series of macros that do it automatically if it's not, but ;) 21:41:19 laziness really, I strongly suspect you can disable individual warnings with SBCL 21:41:52 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:47:59 oGMo: It is not my code that produces the warnings, but many libraries do. 21:50:45 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:50:49 serichsen: Report the bug to the library authors? 21:51:27 you can (handled-bind ((sb-ext:implicit-generic-function-warning #'muffle-warning)) ...) 21:51:32 *handler-bind 21:53:29 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@host86-148-139-112.range86-148.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:56:49 adeht: I have never, to be honest, figured out how to get the compile-time semantics right for muffling SBCL's warnings.... 21:57:24 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:58:37 ehu: Maybe you would know about this --- I was just compiling a new version of ASDF with ABCL and got a STYLE-WARNING and the ASDF compile failed. 21:58:48 That shouldn't happen unless I get a bona fide, non-STYLE warning... 22:00:07 rpg: I didn't know about that, but I'll look at why that happens. 22:00:12 thanks for the report! 22:01:02 bzzbzz [~franco@modemcable240.34-83-70.mc.videotron.ca] has joined #lisp 22:01:24 ehu: Note that I have a mildly out-of-date ABCL: 0.26.1... 22:01:25 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@proxysup.isae.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:01:45 ehu: Also, note that the STYLE-WARNING revealed a real bug, so I don't mind too much! ;-) 22:02:03 I'll check if it still applies. 22:02:15 I do expect it to, since not much changed in that area. 22:02:40 rpg: isn't it about warnings at load-time? 22:03:02 timack [~tim@hlfx59-1-120.ns.sympatico.ca] has joined #lisp 22:03:16 though there shouldn't be a problem doing it at compile-time as well 22:03:47 adeht: I always like to compile with no warnings... 22:03:53 rpg: same here 22:04:15 I find that if people leave them around, then they ignore the warnings and sooner or later overlook a critical bug. 22:04:37 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:09:11 -!- trebor_dki [~user@mail.dki.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:09:55 most of the time it's not even hard to remove the warnings from existing code. 22:11:15 (though it's only useful if you have taken over maintenance of the code) 22:12:10 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-130-252.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 22:15:30 -!- HG` [~HG@p579F7706.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 22:16:52 Xach: therep? 22:22:20 hmm. what's edi's new job going to be? working at google? 22:24:24 /quit/quit 22:24:27 whoops osrry 22:24:28 -!- quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:24:44 quackv2 [~quack@vps-1058467-4367.manage.myhosting.com] has joined #lisp 22:25:03 oudeis_ [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 22:25:51 hey, do people here know of any identi.ca feeds i should follow? 22:26:51 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-84-108-104-232.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:27:08 -!- dwim [~dwim@140.Red-83-61-37.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:28:54 -!- jdz [~jdz@host132-14-dynamic.0-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:30:27 -!- alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 22:30:33 Have a nice weekend, all. Pushed the bug fix for ASDF, and am off for a bike ride. 22:30:36 -!- rpg [~rpg@mpls.sift.info] has quit [Quit: rpg] 22:31:31 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 22:33:20 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2114C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:34:10 xan_ [~xan@65.Red-83-39-56.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 22:35:50 Soulman1 [~knute@198.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has joined #lisp 22:36:24 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-89-130.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:37:53 -!- Soulman [~knute@198.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:38:00 pnq [~nick@ACA2114C.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 22:38:28 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 22:39:12 ahoy 22:42:09 dfox [~dfox@2001:470:9d8f:0:4261:86ff:fe8e:8446] has joined #lisp 22:43:17 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.20.82] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 22:44:07 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:49:59 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:51:57 -!- oudeis_ [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:52:23 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@173-228-44-88.dsl.static.sonic.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:55:05 -!- cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-176-206-126.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:56:52 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:57:08 cmm [~cmm@bzq-79-183-206-63.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 22:57:57 -!- milanj [~milanj_@93-86-115-66.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:59:51 -!- serichsen [~user@hmbg-4d06cc16.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Good night!] 23:00:17 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 23:04:26 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:05:15 Evanescence [~chris@122.237.20.82] has joined #lisp 23:06:36 vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.37.243] has joined #lisp 23:06:49 hi, i would an advice from you guys 23:07:11 i've done a neural network library 23:07:21 now i want to make some graphif interface 23:07:28 what library could i use? 23:07:31 *graphic 23:08:47 vaaal: there are several 23:09:12 none of them seem very mature to me, unless you pay money for CAPI from LispWorks. 23:09:28 i don't want to pay money 23:09:32 Commonqt looks promising. Ltk looks stable and predictable. There are some working Gtk bindings. 23:10:34 tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has joined #lisp 23:11:57 The problem here is that i have never used a graphic library, except the simple wxWidget in c++ 23:12:23 so i should ask for a SIMPLE one... 23:12:39 do you know any? 23:13:11 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.20.82] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 23:15:17 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:15:45 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@70-35-37-146.static.wiline.com] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 23:15:46 vaaal: No. 23:18:29 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@189.26.8.216.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 23:19:07 vaaal, CL isn't exactly my goto language for GUI programming, good thing i don't do much of that :), but i don't think its unworkable, do some reading: http://www.cliki.net/GUI 23:19:33 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 23:19:44 thank you :) 23:20:13 so lisp programmer don't do gui for their works? 23:20:24 some do 23:20:52 with those libraries? 23:20:57 I thought ltk was simple 23:23:59 -!- Phoodus [~foo@ip72-223-116-248.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:24:29 ltk seems nice 23:24:33 vaaal, yes, some use the open source libraries, some pay for LispWorks, some build their own toolkit, others like me suffer the horror that is the browser 23:25:36 the browser? 23:25:52 html, javascript, css 23:26:28 sorry for this stupid question, pavelludiq, but i'm a newbye 23:26:42 do you means that do you connect lisp with html, java..? 23:27:27 i do web apps 23:27:42 *_3b* mostly uses html/webgl, flash, or opengl for UI stuff 23:28:10 and im a noob at that, but steadily improving :) 23:28:24 i use the browser as the gui 23:28:38 i've no idea how you could do that 23:28:44 ^^ 23:28:55 vaaal: GMail? Google Docs? etc. 23:29:04 have you ever used a web site made in the past 10 years? 23:29:17 *_3b* uses hunchentoot+yaclml+parenscript for CL web app stuff 23:29:33 sure 23:29:42 i didn't means i don't know internet. 23:29:52 vaaal: You put a webserver (e.g., Hunchentoot) in your application. Then use your browser to connect to it. 23:30:24 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 23:32:11 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.151] has joined #lisp 23:32:13 You start your application, then connect your browser to it (e.g., by pointing your browser to http://localhost:3000). 23:33:35 ISF [~ivan@201.82.134.98] has joined #lisp 23:33:56 yep, and then? 23:34:23 And then use your browser as the frontend to your application. 23:34:27 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@cpc1-oxfd18-2-0-cust444.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: zzzz] 23:35:24 -!- jasom_ [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:36:16 jasom_ [~aidenn@ip98-182-25-247.sb.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 23:36:49 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.151] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:37:30 *austinh* heads out for the evening 23:41:00 -!- vaaal [irc2gowebc@151.73.37.243] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:42:12 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:42:54 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2114C.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 23:43:03 -!- Soulman1 [~knute@198.84-48-88.nextgentel.com] has left #lisp 23:48:56 -!- rtoyg [~chatzilla@nat/google/x-cginyegzwmihopvu] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.20/20110805212527]] 23:49:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 23:51:47 Mococa [~Mococa@187.59.207.151] has joined #lisp 23:52:34 gavino [47bd073a@gateway/web/freenode/ip.71.189.7.58] has joined #lisp 23:57:13 -!- naiv [~quassel@AAnnecy-651-1-18-181.w86-209.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:58:20 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp