00:00:39 timepilot [~timepilot@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:02:48 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:09 cheier^ [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:03:25 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-213-80.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 00:03:43 Phoodus: I've tried with the :search keyword. Same error. The $PATH var needs to know where the command is correct? 00:03:59 -!- urandom__ [~user@p548A34B1.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:05:46 -!- cheier^ [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:06:15 yes 00:07:08 so from sbcl's view, the PATH envvar does contain your C:\cygwin\bin directory? 00:07:50 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 00:08:58 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 00:11:52 cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 00:13:08 Phoodus: It seems it does not 00:13:23 that's your problem then 00:13:42 iirc, PATH will get copied from its launched environment when sbcl starts 00:13:50 so it needs to be there when sbcl is launched 00:14:53 in the same way, if you use the Win GUI thing to change the envvars, that will only take effect on new cmd windows that you open; it won't update currently running cmd windows 00:16:19 Phoodus: shouldn't a full path to the command allow sb-ext:run-program to run it, despite its path being absent from PATH envvar 00:16:22 ? 00:16:44 edgar-rft [~edgar@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:18:38 -!- edgar-rft [~edgar@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 00:19:37 Phoodus: I'm making progress. I managed to execute echo ;) 00:20:57 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:21:18 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 00:23:26 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:24:11 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 00:24:40 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.192] has joined #lisp 00:26:08 Kenjin: yay 00:26:35 Kenjin: yeah, a full path should work, if you gave it the full c:\cygwin\bin\echo.exe 00:26:42 Phoodus: indeed 00:26:54 Now I'm trying to run the buildapp Hello world application example 00:26:55 it probably won't work without the .exe extension 00:27:08 as it's a direct filename 00:27:29 Phoodus: It seems to work though 00:28:05 Having a bit more trouble with that one, I believe the quotation 00:29:30 quoting conventions might be a bit diff on windows 00:30:05 I always use forward slashes "c:/cygwin/bin/echo.exe" 00:30:18 makes it a bit easier, and the lisp generally groks the intent 00:32:38 I'm trying to run (sb-ext:run-program "c:\\Kenjin\\buildapp.exe" ("--eval '(print "coisas")'") :output t) 00:32:54 Don't really know the correct way to pass the arguments there 00:33:04 each argument needs to be its own string 00:33:31 plus, you missed quoting the list 00:34:02 -!- Sa[i]nT [~SAINT@fl-67-235-178-42.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:34:08 '("--eval" "'(print \"coisas\")'") 00:34:11 Phoodus: That was a typo sorry 00:34:35 Phoodus: that has extra quotes. 00:35:05 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 00:35:13 yeah, you mean the single quotes? 00:35:23 '("--eval" "(print \"foo\")") The single quotes are just to get the shell to parse the line correctly. We use nested data to represent nesting. 00:36:37 yeah, I don't know what buildapp wants, if having single quotes surrounding its params as input is intended 00:36:47 because the program will see those single quote chars 00:37:48 Phoodus: from the examples, the value supplied to --eval is in single quotes 00:38:03 http://www.xach.com/lisp/buildapp/#example 00:38:05 a run-program example includes those? 00:38:40 there's only a single run-program on that page, and it doesn't show its usage 00:38:46 Phoodus: buildapp example does 00:38:55 Kenjin: those examples are typed in the shell. 00:39:51 run-program does not invoke the shell (unless the first parameter is the shell program of course) 00:40:22 so you've got to know how the shell is reading that, and give run-program the raw program input 00:43:49 Phoodus: Seems that I've sort it out. Bumped into a buildapp issue I believe now 00:44:15 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 00:44:43 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has joined #lisp 00:45:00 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:09 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 00:45:22 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 00:46:51 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 00:48:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.192] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 00:51:27 Phoodus: all sorted ;) sweet 01:00:23 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:02:14 -!- redline6561_afk is now known as redline6561 01:02:38 yates [~yates@nc-71-54-141-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 01:03:29 forgive me for repeating this question, but i'm still gathering opinions before i think about spending a significant amount of free time reading this. What do folks think of "Land of Lisp"? 01:04:23 Other tutorial-ish things I'm considering are PCL, and SICL 01:04:42 my goal is to learn more about using/programming in lisp, not to write compilers... 01:04:56 PCL is pretty good. I haven't read Land of Lisp. 01:05:13 yates: what is SICL? 01:05:31 sorry! SICP 01:05:38 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@cpc12-oxfd18-2-0-cust64.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: zzZzzzZzzz] 01:05:44 http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/ 01:06:22 SICP is pretty interesting. I like PCL as a way to learn how to use a particular language (Common Lisp) nicely. 01:06:43 SICP also isn't about common lisp 01:06:55 I've read Land of Lisp. It's a good introduction, I think; PCL is a little more in-depth, though. 01:07:17 so if you're looking to learn the particular language, not just general lisp family related programming, SICP probably isn't what you want 01:07:19 *Xach* has Land of Lisp and Let Over Lambda but hasn't read them yet 01:07:21 Phoodus: duh! i'm just now realizing this. 01:08:10 we've got somebody in the office going through Land of Lisp; this is her first programming language, and she seems to be doing okay 01:08:11 Xach: right, i guess SICP is out for my goal 01:08:25 I've skimmed some of it, but haven't read it thoroughly 01:08:48 It's very pragmatic, ie does use some poor styles to get the current job done 01:08:54 Phoodus: Oh my! that's scary. i've learned a half dozen languages and I'm still a little skiddish on lisp 01:09:00 but it gets you up and running 01:09:49 OODavo: that's an important and relevent observation - thanks. 01:10:19 it looks like LOL is a lot about data structures too (in addition to lisp) 01:10:23 if you're already a seasoned programmer, LoL might be a little too introductory for you 01:10:41 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:10:58 Phoodus: ok, it's settled - back to PCL (which I've already begun) 01:11:02 thanks all. 01:11:18 (besides, Barnes and Noble want $49 for the damned thing) 01:12:28 Phoodus: C, C++, numerous assemblies, Visual Basic, a little Fortran 01:12:41 embedded engineer during the day 01:12:58 a little Java too lately, but i'm trying to avoid it 01:13:27 so no other dynamic or functional languages yet? 01:13:31 no 01:13:32 maybe you should do LoL ;) 01:14:06 LoL is helpful for getting Lisp into one's brain, I think. 01:15:07 Xach: shouldn't buildapp's with flag --asdf-tree and ~/quicklisp/dist/quicklisp/ be able to load any quicklisp loadable package ? 01:15:46 larss [~larss@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 01:16:44 Xach: did you at some point write something up on the sort of support you'd like for packaging auxiliary files with (executable) cores? 01:17:14 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-239-35.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:17:35 Kenjin: if they have been fetched, yes. but it's better to use a manifest file. 01:17:50 Phoodus: actually, i may have misrepresented myself. i do have a small amount of lisp exposure via emacs lisp (been using emacs for 12 years) and a little scheme via GIMP scripting. but it's been basic 01:17:53 Kenjin: there are problems with overlapping systems otherwise 01:18:06 pkhuong: i never wrote it up. just chatted on #lisp. 01:18:54 OODavo: if the two books are related as you say, i would just as soon put a little more effort and go with pcl. 01:19:11 Fair enough. 01:19:40 Xach: they have been fetched. Does windows have a problem with --asdf-tree flag by any chance? maybe searching subdirs? 01:20:41 Xach: buildapp is failing to load a dependency from the system I'm loading, which is perfectly loadable via (ql:quickload) 01:21:02 Xach: k. I'll look for that later then. 01:21:32 Kenjin: hmm 01:21:35 -!- jmbr [~jmbr@curio.mat.ucm.es] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:21:37 kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-29.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:21:54 Kenjin: i don't know. it uses sbcl's wild-inferiors mechanism. 01:24:04 Xach: this is what I'm calling http://paste.lisp.org/display/124326 01:24:25 the system loads without problem with quickload 01:24:26 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 01:24:36 Phoodus: gosh, thanks for introducing me to the term "dynamic programming language" - this is an excellent discussion of what that means: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamic_programming_language 01:24:37 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 01:25:27 Kenjin: Try a trailing slash? 01:25:28 though i'm shocked that BASIC is considered a member of that set. 01:25:30 Xach: I've tried loading the offending system, but then i get a MISSING-COMPONENT error 01:25:58 i also know Matlab, but i'm not sure how it qualifies as dynamic either 01:25:59 Xach: I have. No change 01:27:43 Kenjin: what does (directory "c:/Kenjin/quicklisp/dists/quicklisp/**/lispbuilder-windows.asd") return? 01:28:18 Xach: Oh... returns nil 01:28:32 where is lispbuilder-windows.asd? 01:30:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:30:34 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 01:31:52 Xach: found it. I had a typo on the --asdf-tree value. Was not pointing to the right dir 01:32:02 k 01:32:04 phew! 01:32:38 Xach: sorry about that. 01:32:45 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:34:17 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:34:46 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 01:36:25 it is stated in the url i will provide on the next line that C does not support higher-order functions. But isn't that false since you can pass a function pointer to a function in C? 01:36:29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Closure_(computer_science) 01:37:22 -!- blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:37:45 C *does* support higher-order functions, but not anonymous functions or closures. 01:38:24 OODavo: so the article is incorrect on this point? 01:38:44 it's kind of funny that in wiki's "Higher-order function" page linked right from there, it says "The C standard function qsort, is an example of this." 01:38:54 My limited understanding of C would suggest so, yes. 01:39:38 Astrology [~chris@122.237.35.24] has joined #lisp 01:40:44 i see. 01:41:46 Where does it say C doesn't have higher-order functions? 01:42:13 _ Right at the top, it says imperative languages (such as C) don't support closures, nor higher-order functions. 01:42:23 Oh, yes, I missed that last clause. 01:44:15 i wonder if there really is, at the machine code level, a significant difference between function pointers and the method that, e.g., lisp uses to pass functions to functions. 01:46:00 can a lisp function modify a function that has been passed to it? 01:46:17 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.222.183] has joined #lisp 01:46:39 Function objects are basically opaque, I think... 01:46:41 Individual function objects aren't particularly mutable. 01:46:43 yates: depends on the lisp. Basically, no, except that closures often have extra arguments (well, one) to get to the surrounding lexical environment. 01:47:51 interesting 01:48:34 if so, that could be a problem if, e.g., the function being passed was in read-only memory... 01:49:06 I don't understand. 01:49:23 if so == if passed functions could be modified. 01:49:27 Xach: my system also makes use of clsql. Is there a way to tell buildapp of where the clsql_uffi.dll file is located? 01:50:38 from the error I'm getting I don't believe buildapp knows about clsql-sys:*foreign-library-search-paths* 01:50:58 thanks people. good night. 01:50:59 -!- yates [~yates@nc-71-54-141-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 01:54:53 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 01:56:16 zelak_ [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 01:56:46 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@201.86.18.96.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 01:59:19 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 01:59:19 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:00:49 CL-SQL has always been a pain for me. I don't know if it's me, SQL, or CL-SQL. 02:01:26 -!- timepilot [~timepilot@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: timepilot] 02:01:44 Quadrescence: :P 02:02:38 Kenjin, I had issues with search paths in the past. I ended up having to put the dll in the same directory I was in from the toplevel 02:04:36 Quadrescence: I believe that if its accessible in clsql-sys:*foreign-library-search-paths* works fine 02:08:55 -!- holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:11:18 -!- m4dnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:14:51 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:16:11 -!- dekuderp [~dekuderp@thingy.cs.umass.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 02:16:49 -!- Yuuhi [benni@p5483D851.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 02:18:32 is ability to do (string-upcase 'moo) (ie auto-strinify symbols) sbcl extension or standard? 02:18:57 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:19:03 clhs string-upcase 02:19:03 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/f_stg_up.htm 02:19:23 maxm: sbcl is pretty serious about keeping extensions out of the COMMON-LISP package. 02:19:32 ah looks standard 02:19:38 string designator n. a designator for a string; that is, an object that denotes a string and that is one of: a character (denoting a singleton string that has the character as its only element), a symbol (denoting the string that is its name), or a string (denoting itself). The intent is that this term be consistent with the behavior of string; implementations that extend string must extend the meaning of this term in a compatible way. 02:20:08 woops 02:20:38 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_afk 02:21:08 *maxm* got tired of not being able to enable/disable loggers per method, so I'm changing my logger wrapper to make automatic logger names for methods to include specializers, ie in (def method paint-event ((this cross-hairs) event)) default logger name will be package.paint-event.cross-hairs 02:29:22 -!- tsuru [~charlie@50.9.237.217] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 02:30:40 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 02:30:58 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 02:35:47 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has joined #lisp 02:36:56 -!- redline6561_afk is now known as redline6561 02:38:35 -!- Amyn1 [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 02:40:10 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 02:42:29 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 02:46:21 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-67-127.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 02:52:43 guther [~guther@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-bazcgfzqgevgeynk] has joined #lisp 02:55:44 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 02:59:07 -!- paul0 [~paul0@187.112.70.70] has quit [Quit: paul0] 03:01:28 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 03:01:51 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 03:01:57 -!- Daev is now known as MeanWeen 03:08:43 wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:11:31 -!- acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:13:22 daniel__ [~daniel@p5082BAAE.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 03:15:31 -!- daniel [~daniel@p508292CE.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 03:24:53 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 03:26:09 Good morning everyone! 03:27:45 Good morning beach. 03:30:59 -!- gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has quit [Quit: sleep] 03:31:07 Good evening beach ! 03:31:29 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 03:32:51 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-67-127.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:33:55 compressed SBCL cores are in HEAD. Now you get to complain about 10 MB hello worlds (: 03:34:28 How big were they before? 03:34:28 & time to go to bed... good night ;-) 03:34:33 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 03:34:36 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 03:34:38 ~4x as large. 03:38:33 pkhuong: cool 03:38:35 How does compression affect startup time? 03:39:22 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:39:32 beach: pretty badly. It goes from < .01 sec to ~.2 sec on my workstation. 03:40:01 slyrus [~chatzilla@adsl-76-254-40-157.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 03:40:34 boo 03:41:16 pkhuong: well, presumably the non-compression startup time is based on the image being in disk cache 03:41:26 or else you've got an improbably fast disk 03:41:34 cfy [~cfy@125.123.18.108] has joined #lisp 03:41:34 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.18.108] has quit [Changing host] 03:41:34 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:41:39 rsynnott: mmap can load on demand. 03:42:57 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Client Quit] 03:43:01 sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:43:02 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:43:16 cfy [~cfy@125.123.18.108] has joined #lisp 03:43:16 -!- cfy [~cfy@125.123.18.108] has quit [Changing host] 03:43:16 cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has joined #lisp 03:45:09 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 03:45:31 If I really drop all caches, it's 1/3rd as much time to cold-start a compressed core than a regular one. 03:46:03 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 03:47:03 so the compressed core is faster without disk cache but not otherwise? 03:47:26 that's with rotational media. On the SSD, regular cores are still ~ .01 s, even with cold caches. 03:47:57 more or less what you'd expect, really 03:48:31 I did all the previous testing on a macbook air, so I totally forgot about that aspect. 03:50:14 fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-67-127.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 03:50:53 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-138-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 03:57:30 yes; this computer is lucky to manage 10MB/sec, assuming what it's reading is sequential 03:57:50 though it's four years old and I suspect the disk is failing, so possibly a bit of an edge case 03:59:24 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-16-212.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 04:01:46 -!- kennyd [~kennyd@78-1-141-29.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 04:01:52 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 04:02:30 paroneayea [~user@c-67-175-218-235.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:03:14 -!- larss [~larss@76.73.16.26] has quit [Quit: CGI:IRC (Ping timeout)] 04:06:02 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA236DB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 04:16:43 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 04:23:10 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:34:14 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Quit: Reconnecting] 04:34:18 zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has joined #lisp 04:34:28 http://i.imgur.com/x0kLH.png 04:34:29 :S 04:34:49 hiya all 04:35:22 curious what the preferences are of #lisp people for GUI development? 04:35:30 I'm looking at cl-gtk2 but 04:35:33 it's not so up to date 04:35:38 but nothing is, it seems :\ 04:36:17 CLIM! 04:36:53 paroneayea: some people here seem to have a lot of success with commonQt. 04:37:39 Quadrescence: ah, generated code. 04:37:48 hm 04:38:07 Quadrescence: pkhuong: thanks 04:38:12 pkhuong, pfft, and they call this "source code" 04:38:42 CLIM seems popular but not what I really want maybe as it might not "look" nicely with most desktops 04:38:47 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:38:54 so I have been leaning toward something GTK / QT friendly 04:38:59 I'll look at commonQT more 04:39:39 meth [~meth@li66-197.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:39:46 lisp can contain ' in variable names right ? 04:39:58 yes 04:40:05 yea sorry that was really hard to google 04:40:12 |hello'there| 04:40:44 except at the beginning, ja? 04:40:46 meth: symbol names are arbitrary strings; you just have to escape the name enough to be able to type it in. 04:40:52 http://i.imgur.com/x0kLH.png 04:40:54 erm 04:40:54 optikalmouse: nein. 04:40:59 aha, that answers the question ;p 04:41:04 :'awesome? 04:41:09 See above. 04:41:11 you guys ever read the roots of lisp ? 04:41:26 by paul graham 04:41:42 meth: parts of it, wasnt too bad 04:41:58 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 04:42:09 yea I'm wondering if anyone ever actually tried to implement math using lists like he suggested 04:42:45 That's how the original implementation did it, I think? 04:43:01 meth: See Church Numerals? 04:43:02 hm i mean in the original implementation that he talks about there was basically no math 04:43:24 sorry don't know what that means 04:43:26 Wouldn't it be more like Peano arithmetic? 04:44:01 ok pulling up some google hits on this .. 04:44:02 meth: implementing arithmetic with only lambda is a classic exercise in theory of computation. 04:44:43 doesn't lambda just stand for an anonymous function ? 04:44:59 yes. 04:45:20 You can use just functions to represent numbers, like with Church numerals. 04:45:40 hm i didn't know that lambda calculous was actually about implementing mathmatical functions using only block and call ? 04:45:58 heh.. I'm confused on the reference to church numerals though 04:46:03 This is what basic research skills are for. 04:47:41 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 04:48:14 i guess it's just cause Alonzo's last name is Church 04:48:31 I expect so. 04:48:45 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-16-212.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:49:07 Actually it is because Catholic churches in Greece made use of such numerals for Bible verses. 04:49:28 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_encoding#Church_numerals 04:57:07 holycow [~new@poco208-2.fredcanhelp.com] has joined #lisp 04:58:31 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 05:01:00 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-167-60.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:01:31 Hard to picture though how you would represent numbers with functions 05:02:36 Upp3r [~Upp3r@204.195.141.62] has joined #lisp 05:02:43 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 05:03:06 Hello all 05:03:07 It's right there. 05:04:07 that page is confusing though.. and i mean yea .. 3 = f(f(f(x))) but ... how would that be used to implement real numbers in a program ? 05:04:58 (defun |3| (f x) (funcall f (funcall f (funcall f x))))? 05:05:19 what's the |3| part ? 05:05:27 the name ? 05:05:31 yea sorry 05:05:32 meth: it's a symbol named 3. 05:05:33 Yes. 05:05:55 ok so it applies f 3 times to x 05:06:15 No, it applies f to the result of applying f to etc. 05:06:19 yes 05:06:19 meth: neither church numerals nor that roots of lisp thing is concerned with practicality (much like work involving turing machines). 05:07:19 so how would you add 2 + 2 for instance ? would you some how like concatenate the bodies of |2| and |2| ? 05:07:35 "plus  m.n.f.x. m f (n f x)" 05:07:59 Hello Upp3r. I don't recognize your nick. Are you new here? 05:08:00 meth: read and think inside your head, please. 05:08:09 i didn't really understand the m.n.f.x. parts on that page 05:08:30 meth: that means you should read up some more. 05:10:19 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:10:24 I think it's more readable to show lambda abstractions of multiple args as mnfx.m f (n f x). 05:12:11 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:12:45 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 05:13:06 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 05:15:24 pkhuong: yea it's just interesting though .. but it's all allot to take in at once 05:15:29 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:48 hard to find an example of the real church numerals 05:24:00 What do you mean "real"? 05:25:05 Quadrescence > Actually it is because Catholic churches in Greece made use of such numerals for Bible verses. 05:25:57 Be right back, gonna cook some popcorn. 05:26:05 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 05:29:01 hey, anyone knows a company that hires summer interns for lisp programming? 05:29:16 i'll be happy with scheme, ocaml and haskell too. 05:34:03 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 05:34:05 jane street is a caml house; galois seemingly does a lot of haskell (or haskell-based dsls); some OR shop in montreal bases some of its branchy logic on scheme scripts (giro?). 05:40:12 Dodek: It would be worth having a look at ITA software's website as well. 05:41:48 -!- zelak_ [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 05:43:48 -!- wormphlegm [~wormphleg@c-50-131-44-231.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 05:44:12 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 05:44:24 arc137 [~chatzilla@2001:5c0:1400:a::695] has joined #lisp 05:45:37 pkhuong: to be honest, i'm asking because i just found jane street, which looks really cool, and i'm sure there are more companies like this one 05:46:13 if you like finance 05:46:49 the thing is, i'm kind of reluctant when it comes to applying to US based companies, because of all this visa hassle 05:47:11 smaller companies do not necessarily want or can afford to go through it. 05:47:18 they do sound cool though from their site description 05:48:17 pkhuong is going to start a company with me specializing in computer algebra and high performance numerical computation. maybe he will hire you 05:49:56 anyway, thanks for suggestions; i'd appreciate hearing more 05:51:05 it seems there are no internships at ita software at the moment. 05:51:07 (no, not really) 05:51:12 blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:56:11 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 05:56:14 pkhuong, you have no say in this, a'ight? 05:57:32 Lisp is not a context-free grammar. 05:57:34 correct? 05:58:32 tempire: depends on what you mean by Lisp and grammar. 05:58:53 -!- arc137 [~chatzilla@2001:5c0:1400:a::695] has quit [Quit: arc.net.cn] 05:59:37 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 05:59:46 was reading about bison, and how it's for parsing any context-free grammar, or BNF, which was developed for Algol. 05:59:55 Which leads me to believe lisp is not a context-free grammar. 06:00:04 tempire: what kind of lisp? 06:00:04 As such, my question iswhat is it? 06:00:08 common lisp 06:00:38 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 06:00:59 tempire: common lisp surely is not context free, because of reader macros, particuraly hash-dot. 06:01:26 it's turing complete because of that. 06:01:44 tempire: I don't understand the leap of logic you made here. 06:01:51 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:03:42 likely because I don't know what I'm talking about. 06:04:06 As I understood it, Algol was a break from the lisp type of language, where procedural concepts began to be used. 06:04:26 pkhuong, how do you parse HTML with regex??? 06:04:52 Quadrescence: with perl. 06:05:03 tempire: lisp was nonexistent when algol was created 06:05:05 Pretty sure Algol predates Lisp, if not, its predecessors did 06:05:08 Perl regexps aren't actually regexps, though. 06:05:53 OODavo: that's why we call them regexps and not regular expressions, i think 06:06:57 manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-78-34-169-238.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:08:24 tempire: you might find the HOPL proceedings interesting. They should help clear up the timeline and relationship between languages, but also give a more historical insight into what the designers were trying to achieve (and why). 06:08:25 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has joined #lisp 06:09:18 hmm. videos, I take it? 06:09:29 looking @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Programming_Languages#HOPL_I 06:10:06 http://blocky.io/blog/2011/08/28/morphic-style-halos-in-blocky/ <--- some more squeak/lisp porn 06:11:15 dto: neat. 06:11:21 they mostly work. 06:17:03 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:19:15 -!- Jubb [~ghost@24-151-24-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:20:18 Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:22:51 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 06:23:51 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_slee 06:34:14 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has left #lisp 06:36:45 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 06:36:52 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has joined #lisp 06:37:22 pchrist [~spirit@83.212.183.111] has joined #lisp 06:37:33 -!- pchrist [~spirit@83.212.183.111] has quit [Changing host] 06:37:33 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 06:39:24 ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has joined #lisp 06:47:07 -!- Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 06:52:00 Jasko2 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 06:53:05 jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-88-11.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 07:01:03 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 07:01:57 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:07:14 -!- Quadrescence [~quadbook@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:07:21 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 07:07:56 -!- Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-63.ptld.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 07:07:57 slash_ [~unknown@p54A8E29E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:08:21 leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.66] has joined #lisp 07:14:12 khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has joined #lisp 07:21:25 superflit [~superflit@174-16-42-204.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 07:23:35 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-191-108.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 07:24:01 -!- ugoubuntu [~ugoubuntu@119.59.128.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 07:28:07 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 07:40:11 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:43:39 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:45:00 -!- manuel_ [~manuel@xdsl-78-34-169-238.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 07:49:27 Demosthenes [~demo@206.180.155.43.adsl.hal-pc.org] has joined #lisp 07:52:35 -!- leo2007 [~leo@114.247.10.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 07:57:11 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 08:00:24 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.138] has joined #lisp 08:05:07 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 08:05:56 -!- Astrology [~chris@122.237.35.24] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 08:10:58 Astrology [~chris@122.237.35.24] has joined #lisp 08:12:36 Shamiq [~Adium@50-46-126-118.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 08:13:04 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:13:29 hey guys  having a massive memory lapsewhat's the funcall for me to execute multiple things sequentially? ie: (???? (+ 1 2) (+ 2 3)) 08:14:00 progn 08:14:02 Shamiq: progn? 08:14:19 yup 08:14:24 thanks! 08:14:35 kept trying to use seqn 08:18:07 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 08:18:54 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 08:26:11 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 08:26:53 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-191-108.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:27:40 -!- Astrology [~chris@122.237.35.24] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 08:33:08 -!- incandenza_ [~incandenz@ip68-2-171-175.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 08:33:40 -!- benny [~benny@i577A8DAE.versanet.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:35:36 Astrology [~chris@122.237.35.24] has joined #lisp 08:35:59 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 08:36:52 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.222.183] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 08:40:42 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.86.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 08:45:39 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 08:46:07 kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.103] has joined #lisp 08:46:07 -!- kushal [~kdas@114.143.167.103] has quit [Changing host] 08:46:07 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 08:50:44 -!- Astrology [~chris@122.237.35.24] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 08:51:27 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 08:52:08 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 08:52:51 -!- cheier is now known as cheier^ 08:55:26 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has joined #lisp 09:01:35 dmiles [~dmiles@173.239.83.228] has joined #lisp 09:02:25 -!- joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:02:36 joshe [~joshe@opal.elsasser.org] has joined #lisp 09:03:35 -!- samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:03:40 samebchase [~samuel@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 09:04:10 -!- dmiles_afk [~dmiles@173.239.83.228] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:04:11 -!- blacktooth [~blacktoot@pi.nipl.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 09:04:28 blacktooth [~blacktoot@pi.nipl.net] has joined #lisp 09:06:27 benny [~benny@i577A7962.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 09:07:08 kennyd [~kennyd@78-0-238-191.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 09:10:41 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54A8E29E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 09:12:00 ngz [~user@171.203.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 09:13:25 -!- REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 09:15:10 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 09:16:59 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:19:18 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.138] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 09:21:09 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-138-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:22:41 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 09:24:37 -!- Shamiq [~Adium@50-46-126-118.evrt.wa.frontiernet.net] has left #lisp 09:26:03 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.138] has joined #lisp 09:27:38 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 09:27:41 -!- Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-138-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:29:13 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:38:15 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 09:45:35 thomedy [~thomedy@c-24-10-3-33.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 09:48:39 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: leaving] 09:50:00 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 09:51:22 yates [~yates@nc-71-54-141-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has joined #lisp 09:51:47 what gui toolkits have bindings for lisp? 09:52:02 common lisp is preferred, scheme is acceptable 09:52:16 i note that gtk+ 3 does not... 09:55:12 <_8david> sounds like a glass half empty sort of statement. One might as well say that GTK+ is really well covered in Common Lisp, and only needs updating for version 3. 09:55:57 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 09:56:07 _8david: then is this page incorrect? i see nothing about cl. http://www.gtk.org/language-bindings.php 09:56:48 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 09:58:09 Kenjin [~josesanto@bl5-138-98.dsl.telepac.pt] has joined #lisp 09:58:58 rise and shine 09:59:50 morning 10:00:32 clg 10:01:37 <_8david> I'm under the impression that cl-gtk2 is the hot thing these days, not clg anymore. 10:02:39 anyone got an up to date hunchentoot intro/tutorial to recommend? 10:03:54 _8david: aha. thanks 10:05:43 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:05:50 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 10:09:05 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:09:14 -!- yates [~yates@nc-71-54-141-32.dhcp.embarqhsd.net] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.2.1] 10:09:20 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:09:44 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:09:49 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-86.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:14:52 so far I've only found outdated ones 10:18:03 -!- OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 10:18:42 OODavo [~david@ppp121-44-234-212.lns20.syd7.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 10:22:33 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Linkinus - http://linkinus.com] 10:25:26 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 10:26:08 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has joined #lisp 10:26:49 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-88-11.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:27:32 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 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12:02:25 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:02:47 -!- ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:02:54 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-183-86.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 12:02:56 serichsen [~user@hmbg-5f76284a.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 12:02:59 Hello! 12:04:39 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 12:05:45 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:09:22 -!- Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:11:11 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:12:10 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:15:44 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 12:17:36 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:18:46 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 12:23:32 Khisanth [~Khisanth@50.14.244.111] 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[~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:04:47 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:05:05 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 13:07:28 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:09:49 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10:43 -!- cfy is now known as iperl 13:10:46 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:11:29 -!- iperl is now known as iPerl_ 13:11:31 -!- iPerl_ is now known as iPerl 13:11:47 -!- iPerl is now known as cfy 13:11:47 Joreji [~thomas@83-060.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has joined #lisp 13:13:35 gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:15:06 markskilbeck [~user@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 13:16:19 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:17:21 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:22:06 j-f [~jef@5ac8b031.bb.sky.com] has joined #lisp 13:22:52 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:23:58 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:24:20 -!- Tristam [~Tristam@cpe-72-226-124-205.nycap.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 13:25:12 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:25:17 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-162.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 13:28:03 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:28:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-142-162.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 13:29:28 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:29:36 <_8david> Xach: I'm told you have an embedded core runtime options complaint -- what's going on? 13:30:30 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:30:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:31:52 -!- superflit [~superflit@174-16-42-204.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 13:33:36 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:34:23 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 263 seconds] 13:34:36 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 13:35:35 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:35:48 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:36:04 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 13:36:35 superflit [~superflit@71-208-208-11.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:36:54 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:42:11 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:42:35 I don't. 13:42:43 attila_lendvai bitched about them at one point. 13:43:11 -!- ngz [~user@171.203.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:43:19 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:44:10 _8david: I have these two bugs in lp: https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/450280 https://bugs.launchpad.net/sbcl/+bug/586434 13:44:22 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 13:44:44 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 13:47:55 _8david: the last core-related thing i was talking about was having a fake filesystem lumped in there somehow for embedded resources 13:48:38 MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-242.as43234.net] has joined #lisp 13:48:44 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 13:49:44 <_8david> pkhuong: which one did you mean? 13:49:47 em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 13:49:57 -!- em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 13:49:57 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:51:45 <_8david> attila_lendvai: OK, looked at them again. 450280 is a clear bug. 13:52:08 <_8david> I don't understand 586434 entirely. 13:52:40 <_8david> +RTS -RTS would be a godsend IMHO, but it could be controversial. We should discuss that on sbcl-devel. 13:53:07 <_8david> But how exactly does it solve the problem stated in the first paragraph of 586434? 13:54:34 Xach: better yet - an extension that allows creating virtual filesystems accessible through path aliases 13:54:42 i'm not picky. 13:55:01 frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:55:23 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:55:34 "embedded" as in "embedded in a device, e.g. a washing machine"? Or software embedded? 13:55:45 <_8david> It's either +RTS/-RTS, or at least the toplevel options should be named +xyz as opposed to --xyz which invites confusion with user options. In any case, the default option processing needs to error out on unknown options instead of silently ignoring them. 13:55:57 prxq: embedded in the core file 13:56:00 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 13:56:39 _8david: the problem is that "user code" gets run only at the time when it's already too late to change some parameters. and in case of an executable core, sbcl's C side of argv parsing doesn't even get involved. here I've implied here that if argv parsing is cleaned up, then it will include a C function that could be called to extract SBCL's args from argv and could be called even in case of executable cores 13:57:03 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 13:58:10 <_8david> attila_lendvai: still not certain I'm getting it. User code will always run only after toplevel option processing; I don't see any other way. 13:59:20 <_8david> executable core-ness should be orthogonal to runtime options embedded-ness though 14:00:11 _8david: my use-case: I create an standalone application with all its --foo-bar handling. I want to give users control to set the heap size (a runtime option). there's no way to do it. I don't miss user plugins from argv parsing, I miss the possibility to set them by the user (and --save-runtime-options is the wrong answer to this imho if we think of e.g. the heap size) 14:00:14 <_8david> Xach: I assume the "tarball embedded in shell script" trick isn't the right thing? 14:00:32 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Client Quit] 14:00:41 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 14:01:07 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:01:08 _8david: I don't know that trick - like shar? 14:01:09 s/standalone executable/executable core/ 14:02:21 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:02:42 _8david: i'd like directory, probe-file, truename, open, and maybe other things to recognize some kind of object or syntax to read from a filesystem lumped into the core somewhere. 14:02:55 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:03:00 e.g. (directory "core:/fonts/*.ttf") doing something useful 14:03:36 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:03:47 on the 25th: "invalid magic number in core: 0x10102464c457f should have been 0x5342434c." is a new sbcl error to me. 14:04:18 pkhuong: oh, that's because i screwed up my logic 14:04:27 pkhuong: i was using --core foo when foo had an embedded runtime 14:04:34 (i think i mentioned that later in the day) 14:05:12 Xach: ah, that's supposed to work now (: 14:06:18 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.134] has joined #lisp 14:06:28 yeah. i'll give it a try too. 14:06:36 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 14:07:55 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:08:35 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:08:40 xcv [~xcv@dsl-225-28.hive.is] has joined #lisp 14:09:12 optikalm` [~user@207.164.79.51] has joined #lisp 14:09:37 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812C0A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:10:34 -!- optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:11:55 <_8david> Xach: how can I put it? :-) I think that the pathname concept is sufficiently broken that it wouldn't make it much worse to introduce the sort of extensibility needed to support your requirements. 14:12:02 Does postmodern support postgresql 9? 14:12:09 <_8david> Ralith: yes 14:12:17 pnq [~nick@AC812C0A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:12:25 I can't get the sanity check query to run; keep getting EOF errors. 14:12:36 have enabled IP connections from localhost. 14:12:45 scm` [~scm@pool-71-173-86-89.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has joined #lisp 14:13:08 what might I be doing wrong? 14:13:15 <_8david> Well, that would have been my first question. 14:13:28 <_8david> My second question is: Are you _certain_ you've enabled IP connections from localhost? :-) 14:14:10 postgresql is writing this to the log the first time I run the query for a given connection attempt: 14:14:12 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:14:18 LOG: invalid message length 14:14:34 successive attempts have no effect until I reconnect 14:14:42 em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:47 Xach: re embedded data, my fear is that you'll want to pass those pathnames to some external program or C function, and we're back to expand-in-/tmp tricks. 14:14:47 -!- em [~em@user-0ccem0s.cable.mindspring.com] has quit [Changing host] 14:14:47 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:14:59 (presumably as the connection was closed after the error) 14:15:10 _8david: the fact that I'm getting that error seems to suggest it. 14:15:12 pkhuong: I know for certain that I will never want to do that for the kinds of applications I want to write, but I can see your concern. 14:15:35 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:15:46 <_8david> Ralith: well, that's weird. My only recollection of anything ever going wrong with decoding on the postgres connection is that some weird non-english locale was enabled, and cl-postres wrongly assumed UTF-8 error messages. 14:16:10 my system's all en_US.UTF-8 14:16:11 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 14:16:28 naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has joined #lisp 14:16:36 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:16:57 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 14:17:19 _8david: well, what can I do? 14:17:38 <_8david> Ralith: we might be beyond the point where IRC is still helpful with debugging. Better ask the maintainers perhaps. You could put up a "tcpdump -w outputfile -s 0 -i lo port 5432" and post that, but I'm not exactly volunteering to debug other people's libraries on a sunday. :-) 14:17:41 I'm running 9.0.4 14:17:57 righto. 14:18:12 Xach: all right. a sort of graceful degradation would still be useful. 14:18:30 <_8david> The postgres protocol is pretty nice and easy though, so you might be able to spot issues in wireshark yourself. 14:18:31 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:18:38 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 14:18:49 _8david: what do I use to inspect that output file? 14:18:58 any CLI utils? 14:18:59 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:19:09 or do I need to break out wireshark proper? 14:19:10 tcpdump :) 14:19:15 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 14:19:42 it can read a saved file and log it back in human readable form 14:19:48 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:19:51 oh, cool 14:19:55 *_8david* uses wireshark to read tcpdump files made elsewhere, but I'm sure there are leet hacker tools elsewhere 14:20:12 well I guess I'll contact the maintainer 14:20:14 thanks 14:20:32 ngz [~user@171.203.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 14:20:36 high chance that this isn't on my end I take it? 14:20:49 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:21:49 <_8david> at this point only Xof would be able to make that assessment 14:21:57 <_8david> (he has telepathic debugging skills) 14:22:31 google certainly seems to suggest that. 14:22:48 *attila_lendvai* giggles 14:25:49 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:26:28 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:26:59 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:27:11 optikalmouse [~user@bas1-toronto07-1176122586.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 14:28:20 -!- optikalm` [~user@207.164.79.51] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 14:28:20 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:28:24 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@201.86.18.96.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:28:36 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 14:29:22 ivan4th [~ivan4th@83.149.9.188] has joined #lisp 14:32:09 -!- tritchey [~tritchey@c-98-213-213-26.hsd1.in.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: tritchey] 14:32:37 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 14:33:13 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:33:18 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:33:18 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:33:19 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 14:33:22 -!- nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@201.86.18.96.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:33:37 -!- scm` [~scm@pool-71-173-86-89.ptldme.east.myfairpoint.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:36:49 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812C0A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:37:40 sacho [~sacho@46.10.17.252] has joined #lisp 14:38:14 pnq [~nick@AC812C0A.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:38:26 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 14:38:38 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.17.252] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 14:39:19 sacho [~sacho@46.10.17.252] has joined #lisp 14:39:24 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has left #lisp 14:39:32 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:39:41 -!- frhodes [~frhodes@168-103-97-249.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:41:43 linshuai_irc [~user@182.146.29.5] has joined #lisp 14:42:26 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 14:43:10 -!- linshuai_irc [~user@182.146.29.5] has left #lisp 14:44:20 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:43 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:46:49 -!- McOmghall [~quassel@77.209.4.149] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:49:49 -!- redline6561_slee is now known as redline6561 14:51:02 superflit_ [~superflit@71-208-207-26.hlrn.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 14:51:15 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:51:55 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:52:19 'morning 14:52:35 -!- superflit [~superflit@71-208-208-11.hlrn.qwest.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:52:35 -!- superflit_ is now known as superflit 14:53:41 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.31.7] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:54:33 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 14:55:38 -!- TeMPOraL [~user@cpc12-oxfd18-2-0-cust64.4-3.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Quit: power unit failure, brb] 14:55:50 ,o/ 14:56:02 -!- pnq [~nick@AC812C0A.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:57:11 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:57:54 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@201.86.18.96.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 14:58:14 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 14:59:51 phax [~phax@adsl-68-77-75-115.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:57 -!- phax [~phax@adsl-68-77-75-115.dsl.ipltin.ameritech.net] has quit [Changing host] 14:59:57 phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 I go into ##php and I find someone struggling to figure out why 900x600 arrays in PHP cause an out-of-memory error 15:02:48 i used to have a computer like that, too 15:03:00 I go into #lisp to find 4th year computer science talk (minimum) 15:03:02 ;p 15:03:34 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:04:12 -!- nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@201.86.18.96.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 15:04:33 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:06:09 ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has joined #lisp 15:06:18 ...wow. the guy wants that array to store (0, 1), (1,1), ...(900, 600) :-| 15:06:45 so how useful is the alexandria library and is there a release or am I relying on git pull for the latest versions of it? 15:07:12 optikalmouse: it is pretty useful. i rely on quicklisp for it. 15:07:41 hmm ok 15:08:10 optikalmouse: and I've been using random snapshot for a while without issue. 15:10:16 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:10:49 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:13:52 pnq [~nick@AC837179.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 15:16:03 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:17:07 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:18:16 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 15:18:22 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 15:19:00 -!- yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:19:59 mon_key: why are bit vectors better than bignums for your library? your unicly readme isn't clear to me. 15:20:03 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 15:21:33 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:23:01 -!- em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 15:23:08 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:23:30 yroeht [yroeht@server5.tonbnc.fr] has joined #lisp 15:28:31 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 15:29:25 ``Erik [Here@c-69-140-109-104.hsd1.md.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:31 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 15:33:04 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33:38 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 15:33:38 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 15:33:38 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 15:34:54 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 15:38:22 -!- pnq [~nick@AC837179.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:39:12 in a defstruct I can add some :documentation to the fields, ja? 15:39:38 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:40:27 optikalmouse: doesn't look like it to me (they're called "slots" in CL) 15:41:14 Xach: k thanks, PHP/Python have infected my terminology ;p 15:41:58 only to the structure itself, unfortunately 15:42:14 but clos supports per-slot documentation of course 15:42:58 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:46:46 Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 15:51:14 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 15:52:11 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 15:52:30 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.2] has joined #lisp 15:54:52 lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has joined #lisp 15:59:03 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 16:00:37 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-159-63.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 16:04:27 -!- nicdev_ [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 16:04:29 daniel__1 [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 16:05:01 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 16:07:19 -!- daniel__1 is now known as zmv 16:08:19 -!- OliverUv [fuckident@valkyrie.underwares.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:10:53 kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has joined #lisp 16:11:04 -!- kpreid_ [~kpreid@128.153.215.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:11:53 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:14:10 mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 16:18:05 -!- sacho [~sacho@46.10.17.252] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 16:19:34 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 16:20:00 -!- kami` is now known as kami 16:20:06 Hello 16:20:16 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.134] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 16:20:30 jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-88-11.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 16:24:46 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:27:04 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.167.2] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:27:16 -!- cfy [~cfy@unaffiliated/chenfengyuan] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:27:31 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@201.86.18.96.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 16:28:03 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 16:30:45 Guthur [~Guthur@e6219.upc-e.chello.nl] has joined #lisp 16:31:25 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:35:00 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 16:38:01 corni [~corni@drupal.org/user/136353/view] has joined #lisp 16:43:15 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 16:46:24 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:55:09 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 16:59:16 pnq [~nick@AC8183FA.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:04:41 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: *poof*] 17:07:55 lol nyc hurricane was non-event just as everyone thought it would be 17:12:27 non-event ? 17:12:50 It didn't happen. 17:13:02 well there was some wind, and some rain and thats it 17:13:15 Sounds like a hurricane to me. 17:13:16 oh ok 17:20:47 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 17:20:58 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 17:23:14 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:23:56 Who is the admin of paste.lisp.org and receives the requests for deletion or the 'mark as spam' messages? 17:27:02 maxm: USA is a funny country. Car and school buses explode, hurricains and tornadoes devaste, etc. 17:28:33 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 17:30:10 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 17:32:10 -!- gko [~gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:33:31 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:37:49 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 17:39:01 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 17:42:34 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Client Quit] 17:42:41 acelent [~user@2001:690:2100:4:200:1aff:fe19:ddfc] has joined #lisp 17:45:59 -!- khaliG [~khali@203.171.126.201.static.rev.aanet.com.au] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:46:06 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 17:46:32 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 17:48:04 -!- Upp3r [~Upp3r@204.195.141.62] has quit 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#lisp 19:03:31 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:04:13 slash_ [~unknown@p54A8E29E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:04:41 -!- nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@201.86.18.96.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:07:12 -!- vert2 [~vert2@gateway/shell/bshellz.net/x-rcicuheesjwxlebl] has quit [Quit: gone] 19:07:28 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.208] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:08:16 edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has joined #lisp 19:11:49 -!- ignas [~ignas@217067203062.itsa.net.pl] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:13:28 offtopic since there is silence on the channel, jazz/funk is the best coding music 19:14:05 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWyvhtyzwIg <-- ooh mama 19:15:13 rolando [~user@22.221.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 19:16:33 hey all 19:16:44 wassup nowhere_man 19:16:48 I have a question about SBCL's internal time 19:17:34 I just stopwatched it, and while 20 seconds pass in our world, either 16 or 20 units pass, according to (get-internal-run-time) 19:17:58 precisely 16 or 20, on 8 successive measurements 19:18:25 it would be an average of 20, sometimes 19 or 21, I would find it pretty easy to understand 19:18:39 but either 16 or 20, not anything else, seems weird 19:20:06 isnt internal run time the time that process spends doing stuff? 19:20:22 udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has joined #lisp 19:20:31 ie thats the time spent running? the rest of the time it must have been blocked on something 19:21:58 ie if you do (sleep 1) that does not count towards process run time, or if you doing (read) from the socket, and it blocks, the time process spent blocked also does not count... Looking at sources, it simply calls C lib getrusage() anyway, so it just returning underlaying OS values 19:25:21 HG` [~HG@p5DC04EBF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 19:26:23 OK 19:27:04 if you need just the current time (ie what is called wall clock) then just call (get-universal-time) 19:27:52 get-internal-real-time should match the clock 19:28:02 he uses run-time not real time 19:28:10 VasDeferens [a@ip72-207-23-164.sd.sd.cox.net] has joined #lisp 19:28:24 get-internal-run-time measures CPU time 19:29:21 marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has joined #lisp 19:30:49 pat [~pat@c-71-60-133-203.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:31:16 -!- VasDeferens is now known as Epidydimis 19:31:38 -!- Epidydimis is now known as VasDeferens 19:31:45 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 19:32:18 -!- kslt1 [~karl.sier@netblock-208-127-156-174.dslextreme.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:32:41 -!- nhonhonho_ [~nhonhonho@189.26.35.221.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:34:24 humasect [~humasect@d221-94-22.commercial.cgocable.net] has joined #lisp 19:37:21 -!- VasDeferens [a@ip72-207-23-164.sd.sd.cox.net] has quit [K-Lined] 19:39:44 -!- Joreji [~thomas@83-060.eduroam.RWTH-Aachen.DE] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:44:57 nhonhonho [~nhonhonho@189.26.35.221.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:45:02 chp [~chp@ool-18b83194.dyn.optonline.net] has joined #lisp 19:45:49 -!- edgar-rft [~user@HSI-KBW-109-192-059-240.hsi6.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 19:51:05 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has joined #lisp 19:53:34 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has joined #lisp 19:54:25 -!- allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:57:21 benkard [~mulk@mnch-d9bdd6c2.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 19:58:41 -!- syrinx_ [~syrinx_@unaffiliated/syrinx-/x-4255893] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:00:28 kami` [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 20:03:41 McOmghall [~quassel@178.139.1.117] has joined #lisp 20:03:59 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 20:04:15 -!- kami` is now known as kami 20:04:37 mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has joined #lisp 20:04:48 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@ceres.etla.org] has quit [Changing host] 20:04:48 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 20:07:29 -!- jewel_ [~jewel@196-215-88-11.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:10:15 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-181-214-224.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 20:11:28 -!- pnq [~nick@AC8183FA.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:16:15 -!- s0ber [~s0ber@111-240-171-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:16:16 -!- y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-171-221.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:17:32 ravster [~user@184.175.28.107] has joined #lisp 20:17:59 y3llow [~y3llow@111-240-173-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:02 s0ber_ [~s0ber@111-240-173-247.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 20:18:07 -!- s0ber_ is now known as s0ber 20:19:55 syrinx_ [~syrinx_@ip68-109-29-26.ri.ri.cox.net] has joined #lisp 20:20:13 tty234 [telex@gateway/shell/anapnea.net/x-etgcsoulnuvulmcd] has joined #lisp 20:25:40 -!- Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:26:03 Jasko3 [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:54 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279439962.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 20:32:46 francogrex [~user@109.130.77.182] has joined #lisp 20:35:15 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440238.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 20:39:19 *humasect* licks my lisp 20:41:08 -!- daimrod_ is now known as daimrod 20:45:39 lakatos [53a6d29d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.166.210.157] has joined #lisp 20:46:02 hey guys 20:46:12 has anyone here read PAIP? 20:46:20 Is it worth pursuing? 20:47:31 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 20:48:04 yes 20:48:09 ikki [~ikki@189.139.218.180] has joined #lisp 20:48:36 I'm asking cause I might be able to get my hands on a copy :P 20:48:42 How good is it? 20:49:14 its pretty good but its available online I think too 20:49:19 It's the best book ever next to Curzio Malaparte's Kaputt. 20:49:31 or was it some other book that was kind of "send donation if you want?" 20:49:54 I think that's Successful Lisp 20:50:32 I prefer dead tree formats though :P 20:51:30 realitygrill [~realitygr@76.226.222.183] has joined #lisp 20:51:47 lakatos: 10^6 GQU, even more according to some 20:52:41 Is that ISO1337 GQU? 20:52:43 *maxm* loves CL.. Like Qt4 only allows you to paint from paintEvent handler. But I like to paint manually from REPL to test my drawing out manually... Heh no prob, (def (macro q) paint-in-window (window &body &body) `(setf (paint-hook window) (lambda () ,@body)) (window.update)) 20:53:11 and of course (paint-event) just creates qpainter and calls the lambda 20:53:52 lakatos: no, it's Galactic Quality Units 20:54:04 don't they teach that in your schools, space boy ? 20:55:26 -!- francogrex [~user@109.130.77.182] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:32 -!- humasect [~humasect@d221-94-22.commercial.cgocable.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:55:40 Not really. My planet had so many high-quality stuff that our primitive accounting software would bufferoverflow 20:56:16 lakatos: if you are hungarian, see this meetup group: http://meetup.com/parentheses 20:57:01 *billstclair* is listening to "What's The Use" by Phish (0:56/8:27) 20:57:04 attila_lendvai: Unfortunately, I'm a Romanian Hungarian, and from where I live Budapest is just too far away :P 20:57:14 That's some lisp code that sends TCP to the Fidelia player on my Macintosh 20:57:39 Unfortunately, Fidelia doesn't provide the album name, or sample rate 20:57:54 oh, the troubles of building a lisp interest group... :) 20:58:08 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-140-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 20:58:21 Yep :P 20:58:44 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-140-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 20:58:52 drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 20:59:02 I'd organize a meetup here in Iasi, just to see how many people are interested in Lisp in the area, but I'm just too lazy and a terrible organizer :P 21:00:16 -!- cheier^ is now known as cheier 21:00:51 attila_lendvai: Any tips on how to get things up and running? :D 21:00:58 start coding 21:01:40 its really embarassing when a guy interested in lisp came in to this channel the other day, and asked kind of obvious question. What are large/successful open source applications written in Common Lisp? 21:02:11 the silence was embarassing, while not a minute before everyone was trying to prove to him that CL is next thing since sliced bread :-) 21:02:58 maxm: if googling lisp success story is too hard, let's go shopping. 21:03:01 Yeah, that is kinda sad :P 21:03:01 for example IMHO stumpwm is probably the most commonly used CL app 21:03:16 lakatos: we have trouble to sustain a 3+ people/once-a-quarter meetings here in budapest 21:04:02 IMHO with CommonQT it should be possible to write a window manager that is ways beyond stumpwm 21:04:04 scharan [~scharan@169.235.25.47] has joined #lisp 21:04:11 cheezus [~Adium@69-165-140-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 21:04:25 how stable is CommonQT? 21:04:31 stumpwm really hampered by using low-level xlib primitives to draw stuff, its like painting with old basic code 21:04:44 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:05:05 its awesome so far.. Have not crashed on me (other then caused by myself) 21:05:45 -!- cheezus [~Adium@69-165-140-185.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 21:05:48 maxm: why do the applications have to be open source to indicate succes? 21:05:52 *maxm* just installed egg (which seems much better then vc-git) so I should rebase and split up my commonqt patches nicely and hopefully they will get accepted 21:06:11 My application isn't open source, but has been in use for over 10 years 21:06:18 well because then he could check it out.. Everyone can claim they written awesome application in private :-) 21:06:21 another for 8 21:06:32 maxm: maxima certainly has more users 21:06:35 ehu: thats pretty cool, what industry? 21:06:45 ehu: Because it is something functional and stable that can be reused 21:06:45 maxm: logistics 21:07:01 ehu: Yeah, congratz 21:07:12 the latter without maintenance -- except for rebuilding when the customer forgot to create a backup :-) 21:07:25 Actually, I take that back. Open source software are only functional :P 21:07:58 actually open source usually have better code quality 21:08:11 Depends on the kind of projects. 21:08:15 I have a third app which is going for the third year now. Only development going on: new functionalities; the basics are just rock solid. 21:08:24 maxm: 'usually'? 21:08:30 maybe in CL, but not generally 21:08:34 coz ppl don't want to get ripped to shreds for releasing bad code.. The horrors I had seen in legacy software, holy shit 21:08:40 have you tried reading the sources of gettext? 21:09:04 Most non-lisp code is awful. 21:09:12 Try reading (and understanding) the source of SQL Ledger 21:09:12 indian guys passing _everything_ as strings joined by : 21:09:13 maxm: Usually would probably only refer to really successfull open-source software 21:09:39 lakatos: yea. I could go on like that for hours. 21:09:56 maxm: it's a nice trick, in BASIC> 21:09:57 But the thing is that those projects are mostly forks of past, closed-source commercial products 21:10:07 well they continued doing it in java 21:10:19 maxm: hate to burst your bubble, but good code is unrelated to whether it's open or not... just that with open-source, it can be easier to drop unwanted code... but not necssarily bad ideas, which tend to flourish 21:10:30 Or projects that were well funded and a strong development team 21:11:05 all the way from Javascript to the servlet, to backend and back.. :Jonh:Dow:1234:12345.54.. Then split, then String firstName = array[0].... 21:11:08 So they had a stable base on which to layer more and more functionality, and solve bugs of course 21:12:08 lakatos: the greatest virtue a programmer can have: the courage to axe code. 21:12:27 ehu: Agreed 21:12:50 but at least you would not have the horrors like above... I had to literally rewrite tons of code.. Like guys have to write a page that displays a bulletin board. Their code is to make a create a temp table, then insert everythnig from the main table into it, then issue "delete" stataments for each filter, then select from it to display result.. I could not believe my eyes... 21:13:09 *maxm* had been thrown on a lot of "red" projects to basically "we are about to get canned, do something" 21:13:48 maxm: that's the standard, unfortunately, all over the world 21:13:51 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-186-43.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:14:11 You should sometimes read code written by Chinese software developers. It's hilarious! * 21:14:48 *I am talking here about one development team's code. I'm probably just over-generalizing 21:14:50 maxm: SQL Ledger inserts new transactions when the user is editing one -- to delete the old transaction / outside an SQL BEGIN/COMMIT 21:14:52 ! 21:15:12 that's just not done in accounting 21:16:05 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-214-227.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:16:23 ehu: I believe the Indian thing is that the combination of cheap labor and rather high percentage of population knowing "some" english makes for a lot of sweatshop coding houses that spam everywhere then quarter-ass 21:17:12 that, and its like this, when some country opens up, first the top talent comes in. So when first indian programmers arrived in the 1970/80/90 they were top percenters 21:17:35 LiamH [~healy@64.134.43.15] has joined #lisp 21:18:00 also... (seeming) top talent != good worker 21:18:05 But now manager think they getting a PHD, while in fact they getting a guy from a rural villedge who was crammed some programming basics for a few month 21:18:18 ... what months? 21:18:26 Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has joined #lisp 21:19:24 imho ppl lie a lot about having degrees... Every EE PHD that comes in, I was doing technical interviews, so I ask them "you have Phd in EE?" "yes kind ser". THe electrons have charge of what sign? "Electrical" 21:19:26 Hey Quadrescence! 21:19:39 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:19:40 or ask them whats ohm law 21:21:32 hi 21:22:18 I think it's easier to just ask them what electricity even is. 21:22:41 magic smoke, of course 21:23:53 -!- udzinari [~user@ip-89-102-12-6.net.upcbroadband.cz] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:24:19 -!- rolando [~user@22.221.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:24:38 -!- jtza8 [~jtza8@wbs-196-2-106-72.wbs.co.za] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:25:47 Electricity? It's the plugs and interruptors in the walls, duh! 21:29:09 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:29:28 Hi maxm Have you played with video on commonqt? 21:29:36 -!- ikki [~ikki@189.139.218.180] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:30:00 Is phonon included? 21:34:42 -!- lakatos [53a6d29d@gateway/web/freenode/ip.83.166.210.157] has quit [Quit: Page closed] 21:38:13 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: away!] 21:39:09 -!- LiamH [~healy@64.134.43.15] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:39:20 -!- Quadrescence [~quad@unaffiliated/quadrescence] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 21:53:17 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 22:00:49 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has joined #lisp 22:02:40 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:10:24 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.115.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:10:27 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 22:10:58 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04EBF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 22:12:39 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-181-214-224.red.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 22:13:54 -!- lony [~lony@hoas-fe3ddd00-245.dhcp.inet.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:16:20 danishman [~kvirc@0xbcb095dd.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has joined #lisp 22:16:29 hey just to let you know about a new channel on freenode and you dont need to be autistic to go there either and everyone is welcome in #aspietalk and it has about 70 people give and take, and everyone is welcome to join us 22:17:53 katesmith: what do you mean? 22:18:50 yes i am just letting everyone know about my favoirite channel to go to, if anyone is interested, it is not my intentions to harm anyone at all 22:19:33 srid_ [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:33 -!- srid_ [~srid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:19:33 srid_ [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has joined #lisp 22:19:38 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:20:12 -!- srid_ [~srid@unaffiliated/srid] has quit [Client Quit] 22:20:19 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 22:20:24 altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:20:36 -!- danishman [~kvirc@0xbcb095dd.ngnqu1.dynamic.dsl.tele.dk] has quit [Quit: KVIrc 4.1.1 Equilibrium http://www.kvirc.net/] 22:21:15 -!- altsrid [~altsrid@S010678ca39ff0146.vn.shawcable.net] has left #lisp 22:22:31 -!- paul0 [~paul0@189.114.199.145.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: paul0] 22:23:32 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:24:43 phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 22:30:38 -!- slash_ [~unknown@p54A8E29E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:30:58 -!- McOmghall [~quassel@178.139.1.117] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:32:55 HG` [~HG@p5DC04EBF.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:36:29 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-4d0119a2.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:30 -!- marienz [~marienz@freenode/staff/marienz] has quit [Ping timeout: 615 seconds] 22:42:20 sellout [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:42:39 -!- sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:44:20 -!- Kajtek [~paniwladc@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:44:27 Kajtek [~nope@nat4-230.ghnet.pl] has joined #lisp 22:48:40 -!- zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:50:03 zmv [~daniel@c95334de.virtua.com.br] has joined #lisp 22:52:30 ccallahan [u2448@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-meorkgejehegfvfu] has joined #lisp 22:52:40 -!- ccallahan [u2448@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-meorkgejehegfvfu] has left #lisp 22:55:57 sickle [~Harrison@pool-71-184-101-83.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:56:28 I'm trying to use clisp for CGI, but I'm getting errors, can anybody help me? 22:56:49 CGI as in web Common Gateway Interface? 22:59:54 yes 23:00:05 So, what kind of error do you get? 23:00:22 Premature end of script headers 23:00:40 The CGI must output the whole stream sent to the browser. 23:01:01 This includes the HTTP headers, which must be separated from the body (the data) by two CR LF. 23:01:08 CR LF? 23:01:17 Check the HTTP standard. 23:01:28 You cannot write a CGI without knowing HTTP. 23:01:41 I'm using ~%, is that the problem? 23:01:56 After I output my header I have two ~%s 23:02:17 Perhaps. In clisp, you can specificy the kind of newline issued by ~% in the external-format. 23:02:24 See ext:make-encoding 23:02:40 You would have to use a MS-DOS newline. 23:03:05 sickle: It can't be just any two newline characters, it has to be CR LF CR LF specifically. 23:03:49 (format t "Content-Type: text/html#\return#\linefeed#\return#\linefeed") 23:03:52 that still doesn't work 23:04:40 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has joined #lisp 23:04:45 Of course. "\r" == "r". 23:05:04 (format t "Content-Type: text/html ~{~C~}" (list #\return #\linefeed #\return #\linefeed)) _could_ work. 23:05:14 I told you. you must configure a MS-DOS newline (in the enccoding) set to the external-format of the stream you write to. 23:05:37 benkard: nope 23:05:47 pjb: how do I do that? 23:06:17 (describe 'ext:make-encoding) 23:08:19 uh 23:08:38 -!- MoALTz [~no@host-92-8-150-242.as43234.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:09:44 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:10:13 So I don't get why (format t "Content-Type: text/html \r\n\r\n") doesn't work? 23:10:19 thats CRLN twice 23:10:25 dabd [~dabd@a79-169-214-13.cpe.netcabo.pt] has joined #lisp 23:10:29 No, \r is just r. 23:10:37 Of course. If "\r" == "r". then "\r\n\r\n" == "rnrn" what did you expect?? 23:11:09 I don't know, I'm from C so I thought \n = newline. 23:11:30 sickle: why don't you do what I'm advising you to? I won't advise you anything else if you don't even try. 23:11:30 So then how do I express CR LF? 23:11:39 Are you programming in ansi C? Go to ##c ! 23:11:47 pjb: im not sure exactly what you're telling me to do 23:11:51 See ext:make-encoding 23:11:59 Have you typed (describe 'ext:make-encoding) ? 23:12:16 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:12:34 It doesn't change anything 23:12:50 Neither does "(ext:make-encoding :charset 'charset:iso-8859-1 :line-terminator :unix)" 23:12:55 In a well configured clisp, it should open a browser on the documentation of ext:make-encoding. 23:13:20 Of course, you must set it to the external format of the stream in question. 23:13:22 hmm I've not written reader macros yet, but have started to read a bit about them now... would they allow custom code to import symbols its own way rather than them being imported automatically by CL? 23:13:31 sickle: There's no C-style string interpolation in common lisp string literals by default. You can add it easily by a simple reader-macro, but apparently that's not the problem here, anyway. 23:14:20 sickle: Solution: (setf (stream-external-format *standard-output*) (ext:make-encoding ...)) 23:14:41 i.e. so that it may force import into a specific package, or as keyword symbols, even if they're just something like #(some list of symbols) 23:15:09 pjb: (setf (stream-external-format *standard-output*) (ext:make-encoding (format t "Content-Type: text/html"))) 23:15:12 ? 23:15:17 ??? 23:15:23 is that right? 23:15:23 What are you thinking??? 23:15:28 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 23:15:46 I'm sorry I cannot help you. 23:15:52 kpreid [~kpreid@128.153.212.222] has joined #lisp 23:16:18 ... 23:16:28 sickle, how long have you been learning CL? 23:16:49 pavelludiq: 2 hours? 23:17:03 give or take 23:17:43 And programming? 23:17:52 3 years 23:18:02 But Lisp is an entirely new experience for me. 23:18:14 Right. So when you call a function with definite argument, you can call it with some random expressions instead... 23:18:21 By the way, there's this: http://www.thangorodrim.de/software/lisp-cgi-utils/ -- it's not in Quicklisp, though, so it's a bit tricky to install. 23:18:32 Quite logic. Sorry, I cannot help a brain wired like that. 23:19:01 benkard: I'll give that a try, it's written in Common Lisp I thought 23:19:20 s/import/intern/ 23:20:09 sickle: It is. Are you using some other Lisp dialect? 23:20:10 sickle, even though i already knew some scheme, clojure, python and C, i had to drop a lot of assumptions in order to learn CL 23:20:32 benkard: I'm using common lisp, interpreted from clisp 23:20:38 pavelludiq: I see 23:22:12 -!- ngz [~user@171.203.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:22:56 sickle: I've used the above library in the past. It doesn't do a whole lot, but it does handle the HTTP header stuff. 23:23:16 -!- meth [~meth@li66-197.members.linode.com] has left #lisp 23:23:17 benkard: http://pastebin.com/AXSjDAL8 23:23:25 Is that correct? 23:23:54 -!- fihi09 [~user@pool-71-190-67-127.nycmny.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:24:22 sickle, for someone in your position i think it would be better to just spend a couple of weeks learning the language first, before you try to write software in it. 23:24:34 sickle: Yes, that looks like it should work. 23:24:45 benkard: it still gives premature header errors :( 23:24:56 benkard: "Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 23:24:56 test 23:24:57 " 23:25:00 thats what it displays 23:25:06 without another linebreak before test. 23:25:12 sickle, at least that's my approach, the only time i tried writing software in a language i didn't know was when i had to write an app in VB.net for school, it sucked 23:25:15 (thats what it displays when compiled from terminal.) 23:25:21 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has joined #lisp 23:25:42 pavelludiq: see, my plan was to write a forum system in something untraditional. I've written one in PHP, so I wanted to do it in lisp for the sake of learning lisp. 23:26:32 H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC91DD.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:26:49 sickle, then learn lisp, in my example with VB, i wrote a simple RSS reader in 5 hours, if i had to do it now, it would take me 15 mins 23:26:59 Is there a specific book I should read to get started? 23:27:24 sickle, http://www.gigamonkeys.com/book/ 23:27:45 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@85-127-217-153.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 23:28:26 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 23:28:40 I see, thank you all. I hope to return here once I know the language. 23:28:42 -!- sickle [~Harrison@pool-71-184-101-83.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has left #lisp 23:29:06 -!- xan_ [~xan@195.70.20.106] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:29:37 did anyone ever made TTF version of Genera's fonts? 23:30:02 -!- H4ns`` [~user@pD4B9E905.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:37:39 Vivitron [~user@pool-108-7-56-243.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:07 -!- redline6561 is now known as redline6561_nom 23:43:16 -!- hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440238.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:43:38 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.182.226] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:43:42 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 23:50:10 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:09 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279440313.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 23:51:17 simplechat [~simplecha@unaffiliated/simplechat] has joined #lisp