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[~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 03:13:28 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: good night everyone] 03:15:33 -!- capivara [~capivara@201.86.15.28.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:33 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:15:52 capivara [~capivara@201.86.15.28.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 03:17:21 safed [bible@220.85.42.156] has joined #lisp 03:18:26 -!- safed [bible@220.85.42.156] has left #lisp 03:18:47 -!- paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:19:22 paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 03:19:31 em [~em@unaffiliated/emma] has joined #lisp 03:22:38 Amyn1 [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 03:22:53 -!- Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 03:23:14 Hello 03:24:41 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:24:48 -!- wbooze` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-137-180.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 03:24:57 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD488.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 03:25:31 felideon: nice, lispy API 03:30:34 celestica [~user@c-67-173-0-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 03:31:33 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 03:31:34 how do I not abuse let* as so http://paste.lisp.org/+2NTV 03:31:47 Hello, I have a quick question about Common Lisp. I don't mean to be a bother but is anyone hear able to help. 03:32:18 I found this book called ANSI Common Lisp by Paul Graham. 03:32:39 I am stuck on understanding an exercise. 03:32:52 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-tdobctesdsipvhco] has joined #lisp 03:33:23 Here is the code for the exercise. It's page 29 in my book. 03:33:31 don't paste here. 03:34:16 Oh 03:34:31 I will use what felideon used then. 03:34:40 There is lisppaste. 03:34:55 paste.lisp.org 03:35:39 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 03:36:01 http://paste.lisp.org/+2NTW 03:37:19 Now you need to think of a sensible question to ask. 03:38:01 -!- capivara [~capivara@201.86.15.28.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: capivara] 03:38:43 I come from C and Python and the way Lisp uses and is very unique. I "know" what the code returns but I don't understand how to translate it into English. In short, I don't get the power of (and ) and (or ). 03:39:03 Um. (and a b c) is like a and b and c in python. 03:39:03 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 03:39:09 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 03:39:59 Does that make sense? 03:40:06 So in Python I would use an if statement and conditionals to solve this problem. 03:40:14 You might. 03:40:16 Yes, thanks Zhivago. 03:40:19 Or you might use and and or. 03:41:26 return (not x) and (not car(x) or enigma(cdr(x))) 03:42:02 -!- phax [~phax@unaffiliated/phax] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 03:42:18 That's so strange I just got it. 03:42:35 Thank you! 03:42:43 You are welcome. 03:43:09 I having to translate into Python though. 03:43:14 hate* 03:43:54 So, don't. 03:44:33 Zhivago do you have the book? I have a similiar question but on page 34. 03:44:41 No. 03:45:32 This author uses this nested (and ) (or ) pattern again. Is this conanical method in Lisp? 03:45:58 vieq_ [~vieq@metabug/vieq] has joined #lisp 03:46:37 celestica: Isn't that fairly common in Python, too? I mean, CL gives you a better syntax for it, so maybe it's more common, but shouldn't be _too_ much different. 03:47:01 *sellout* has ACL, but his copy is ~1,800 miles away. 03:47:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 03:48:00 -!- vieq_ [~vieq@metabug/vieq] has left #lisp 03:48:21 pnathan [~user@76.178.165.160] has joined #lisp 03:48:31 Well, a python programmer would use if to make it easier to read. 03:48:43 Here is another example http://paste.lisp.org/+2NTX 03:48:51 Maybe for something simple like return a or b. 03:49:10 celestica: It's fairly common in lisp. 03:49:11 celestica: I think your indentation didn't come through. 03:49:24 Oh, sorry. 03:50:23 hey, does anyone recall that new loop facility someone's been developing in the last few years? 03:51:00 Which one? :) 03:51:08 People are always developing loop replacements. 03:51:12 Here's the fixed version http://paste.lisp.org/+2NTX/1 03:51:25 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pjdfseqznpobmgtq] has joined #lisp 03:51:25 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@nat/redhat/x-pjdfseqznpobmgtq] has quit [Changing host] 03:51:25 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 03:51:36 I don't recall. For some reason, I thought it was called ITERATE, but that's an older one. 03:52:07 Zhivago, thanks for the help. I will just have to wrap my head around it and get used to it. 03:52:45 celestica: it actually reads out naturally. x and y are equal is they 03:52:59 if they're EQL, or if they're both CONSes, and their CAR and CDR are equal. 03:55:25 pkhuong: So there is an implict if. Now, it all makes even more sense. I was thinking of ways of describing this kind of code without using the word "if." 03:55:56 In a way that felt natural. 03:56:33 ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has joined #lisp 03:57:49 you can substitute "if" with "when", if you want. 04:01:53 Ya, you could. I like that idea. 04:03:53 elfrosch [~Brnt@p5485744E.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 04:04:46 In this book, the function do looks like (do ((variable initial update))) but other functions like (dolist (obj lst)) don't need the extra parens. 04:06:11 I meant (do ((variable initial (update)))). 04:06:13 celestica: right, different operators have different syntax. DO supports a list of variables, so that you can iterate through many variables at the same time; dolist only has one such object-list pair, and doesn't need the extra nesting to disambiguate. 04:08:11 Oh no way. So I could sould say (do ((var_1 int_1 (update_1)) (v_2, i_2 (up_2)))) and each updater could be unique? 04:08:26 That is so cool! 04:08:29 clhs do 04:08:29 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_do.htm 04:08:35 It's all there. 04:09:01 clhs progn 04:09:02 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_progn.htm 04:09:10 That's cute. 04:11:23 Is there a built-in routine to take slices of arbitrary sequences? 04:11:40 pnathan: nope, only subseq. 04:12:42 Excellent. I had forgotten about that one. Thank you. 04:13:16 pkhuong and Zhivago: 04:13:46 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:13:55 I have learned a lot. Thanks again. I hope you don't mind if I come back as I work through the book. 04:16:06 Later. 04:16:23 -!- celestica [~user@c-67-173-0-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:21:21 -!- bellsouth [~BellSouth@118.186.129.182] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 04:21:58 -!- cheier [~amedueces@c-76-107-19-58.hsd1.ms.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Sandman was here.] 04:22:34 kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-inxzqaoqikzefgty] has joined #lisp 04:22:35 -!- kushal [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-inxzqaoqikzefgty] has quit [Changing host] 04:22:35 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 04:23:21 -!- pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:23:24 good morning all 04:23:45 good evening kushal 04:24:00 :) 04:24:08 pnkfelix [~Adium@c-71-225-165-188.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:27:03 pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has joined #lisp 04:31:49 fmi [~user@72.247.151.10] has joined #lisp 04:32:03 bellsouth 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[~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-nsdwnprdpyrqygwq] has joined #lisp 05:01:15 cybergggirl [~cybergggi@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 05:01:31 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-215-3.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 05:03:06 -!- cybergggirl [~cybergggi@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 05:03:43 -!- zakwilson_ is now known as zakwilson 05:06:10 -!- space-cadet [~jason@pool-173-60-69-202.lsanca.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 05:08:37 -!- Amyn1 [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 05:15:59 -!- EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:21:44 slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 05:22:46 -!- martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has quit [Excess Flood] 05:23:16 martinhex [~mjc@93-97-29-243.zone5.bethere.co.uk] has joined #lisp 05:24:58 clhs loop 05:24:58 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/m_loop.htm 05:27:14 -!- lanthan [~ze@p54B7B15E.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:29:18 clhs labels 05:29:18 http://www.lispworks.com/reference/HyperSpec/Body/s_flet_.htm 05:30:08 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 05:31:59 -!- _mathrick is now known as mathrick 05:34:19 -!- Deathaholic [~Mococa@186.214.243.230] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 05:34:31 EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 05:38:37 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 05:40:20 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 05:40:28 Good morning everyone! 05:43:27 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 05:50:14 Deathaholic [~Mococa@186.214.243.230] has joined #lisp 05:51:02 morning beach 05:56:24 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.48.185] has joined #lisp 05:56:51 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 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07:31:43 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 07:32:20 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 07:38:48 misoczki [~misoczki@2001:660:3013:3:222:19ff:fe24:d155] has joined #lisp 07:40:58 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD488.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 07:44:34 -!- ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep] 07:45:12 elfrosch [~Brnt@p578b57e4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 07:45:51 how do I get a list of all symbols from a package? 07:45:53 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.159.252] has joined #lisp 07:46:22 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 07:46:34 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 07:47:14 -!- EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 07:49:41 churib_: http://www.lispworks.com/documentation/HyperSpec/Body/m_do_sym.htm 07:50:56 H4ns: thanks 07:58:38 -!- cfy 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240 seconds] 10:12:20 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has joined #lisp 10:16:20 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 10:16:20 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 10:16:20 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 10:17:31 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has joined #lisp 10:18:32 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 10:25:08 -!- DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:26:38 does the sbcl binary for amd64 get compiled without utf-8 support? 10:27:03 drakma crashes on fetching the page http://www.fnac.com/HP-Pre3/a3690218/w-4 10:27:24 DGASAU [~user@91.218.144.129] has joined #lisp 10:27:37 "crashes"? 10:28:02 H4ns: it brings down my lisp image (seriously) 10:28:14 sec, i'll hunt for the clearest error shown to me 10:28:16 madnificent: ieh 10:29:22 character with code 8217 cannot be encoded 10:29:33 it is an external format issue, so it's my own fault 10:30:07 SBCL is anal about broken utf8.. Wish it had a switch to just ignore encoding errors like perl Encode module 10:30:08 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:32:47 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:34:14 Species8472 [~user1@89-68-164-76.dynamic.chello.pl] has joined #lisp 10:34:29 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.131] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 10:37:51 i was/am surprised that utf-8 isn't listed in my *features* variable 10:38:04 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 10:38:51 qqqqw [~qwdddf@151.75.187.94] has joined #lisp 10:38:51 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:39:04 are closures just used to create static variables? 10:39:04 * (find :utf-8 *features*) 10:39:05 10:39:05 NIL 10:39:05 10:39:21 H4ns: and you do have utf-8 support? 10:39:27 madnificent: sure 10:39:38 ah, i thought sbcl placed that into *features* 10:39:48 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 10:39:49 *madnificent* wonders why the site refuses to be parsed then 10:39:58 * (code-char 3929) 10:39:58 10:39:58 #\TIBETAN_LETTER_TSA 10:41:30 (code-char 8217) works as well... i'm confused 10:42:07 -!- Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 10:42:38 madnificent: did you check your locale setting? 10:42:59 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 10:44:21 the encodings are in a hashtable sb-impl::*external-formats* 10:45:08 default one will be in *default-external-format* 10:45:14 for me its utf-8 10:45:14 H4ns: not sure how that would matter... i can use #'code-char on utf-8 characters and it works as expected. i'm now wondering why it still brings down drakma 10:45:32 madnificent: you said it brings down sbcl? 10:45:34 probably drakma starts its sockets with defferent external format 10:45:53 H4ns: yes it does 10:46:04 maxm: yes, looks like it, but I commanded it to use utf-8 10:46:11 search how it starts its listening thread/sockets, it probably has its own variable for external format, or *default-external-format* has wrong value... 10:46:34 it may be bound to a diff value in teh dharkma thread 10:46:43 if you start it in the thread 10:47:19 there is no such thing as a "utf-8 character" 10:47:25 kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-koamengxzrwaxnpp] has joined #lisp 10:47:55 maxm: drakma has a default, but setting that doesn't seem to change it. my format --as sbcl sees it-- is utf-8 10:48:22 *drakma-default-external-format* 10:48:25 what is this set to? 10:48:55 coz that what it defaults to 10:48:56 it defaults to :latin-1 :( 10:49:05 so set it to utf-8 and be happy 10:49:26 maxm: you'd say that, but apparently it doesn't make it happy 10:49:48 what, you set it to utf-8 and it still broken? 10:49:59 maxm: setting both :external-format-in and :external-format-out to :utf-8 makes it crash as well 10:50:02 maxm: yeah 10:50:09 xan__ [~xan@94.119.4.118] has joined #lisp 10:50:41 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 10:51:02 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 10:51:06 yakov [~yakov@109.188.170.228] has joined #lisp 10:51:25 Is cmucl available for x64? 10:51:48 well, thats weird... if you have time to spend on it, try downloading that page with wget or such , and just reading it from a file with utf-8 external format 10:51:53 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 10:51:55 maybe indeed web page has broken utf8 10:52:15 maxm: not a reason for sbcl to crash 10:52:34 it does not crash, it throws you a condition, you can catch it and ignore it 10:52:48 maxm: does it? i understood madnificent differently. 10:53:27 he is having encoding-error thrown at him i thought 10:53:46 in fact I'm looking at octets.lisp, and there are undocumented macros 10:54:24 (with-standard-replacement-character &body) which will catch these, and replace problematic characters with +unicode-replacement-character+ 10:54:45 maxm: thing is, drakma uses flexi-streams, which makes it even more strange that sbcl crashes. 10:55:22 try wrapping your entire request into (sb-impl::with-standard-replacement-character ... your drakma requset here ) 10:55:26 see what happens 10:55:39 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-ofuhpzljeuntxory] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 10:55:44 madnificent: you need to give more info. 10:56:16 -!- ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 10:56:26 actually, i think i may be searching incorrectly 10:56:36 could it be that slime is trying to communicate over :latin-1 ? 10:56:39 just a hunch though 10:56:49 yea slime defaults to latin1 too 10:57:12 because... i get a swank error... which is dull.. as it means i'm searching in the wrong place 10:57:15 madnificent: ok, so slime crashes, not sbcl? and the response contains characters that slime can't encode, so it disconnects you? 10:57:26 you need to customize or set variable slime-net-coding-system 10:57:28 H4ns: looks like it 10:57:38 then reconnect 10:57:41 ineiros [~itniemin@james.ics.hut.fi] has joined #lisp 10:57:51 maxm: that's an emacs variable, correct? 10:57:55 it defaults to latin-1 10:57:56 yes 10:58:17 man this is a very common problem, slime guy should just make utf8 default 10:58:46 do (M-x set-variable slime-net-coding-system :utf-8) or better yet use customize to change it permanently 10:58:56 "slime guy should just" bwaha 10:59:19 perfect! sorry for blaming sbcl 10:59:24 Is the mythical slime guy hanging around here? 11:00:17 well who is the official maintainer nicodemus? 11:02:19 idiot-proofing default values is an lost art... Defaults should be on "produce as many errors as possible" side, not "as restrictive as possible" one 11:02:21 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75dfee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 11:02:30 hi 11:02:32 err as little errors as possible I meant 11:02:46 morning prxq 11:02:54 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zlqrzzzzyetsgbge] has joined #lisp 11:03:20 ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has joined #lisp 11:03:43 hi maxm 11:04:51 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.113] has joined #lisp 11:05:45 are closures just used to create static variables? 11:06:34 No. 11:06:54 i suspected it, but that's all they are used for when i read about them in the intro books 11:07:00 where should i study them well? 11:07:11 Consider (let ((count 0)) (mapcar (lambda (v) (incf count)) list) count) 11:07:42 What they do is to allow you to thread other code through your lexical structure. 11:07:51 mapcar isn't part of my code 11:08:16 But the (let ... (lambda ...)) is. 11:08:36 I've let mapcar control when that fragment of my code in the lambda is executed. 11:08:53 Does that make sense? 11:09:05 just a moment, i'm thinking :) 11:09:40 The important thing to realize is that that fragment is still part of the (let ...) and can access its variables and so on. 11:10:13 -!- Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 11:10:35 churib__ [~user@95.156.194.105] has joined #lisp 11:10:49 -!- paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 11:10:57 ahhh yes now i see it, but i'd still have troubles in thinking of ways to apply it 11:11:15 do you know a book that explains it in great depth? like showing many different patterns in which it is used etc. 11:11:35 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 11:11:39 Try implementing a for-loop function. 11:12:01 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:12:07 ok I will try and see what I get out of it 11:12:10 paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 11:12:13 thank you for the advice 11:12:16 Good luck. 11:12:32 If I may be so free, literature to the lambda calculus and higher-order functions should be of worth. 11:12:53 elfrosch [~Brnt@p578b57e4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:13:00 don't force youself, just write code and you'll come up with chances to use closures naturally 11:13:18 they usually come up when you need to make a thing like an event handler, or basically a piece of code to be executed later 11:13:28 you make such a piece of code with (lambda ()) 11:13:50 maxm: Do you know the difference between a function and a lexical closure? 11:13:52 every function can implement a closure 11:13:58 and inside that lambda you access all the variables that are in scope when you creating it, thus "capturing" them 11:14:14 qqqqw: 13:11:15 < qqqqw> do you know a book that explains it in great depth?  Try Hoyte's Let over Lamdba. It's *very much* about that 11:14:26 qqqqw: Large parts of it are available online. 11:14:48 qqqqw: But it's better to get the dead-tree version. 11:14:52 thanks, if I remember well i've heard it's pretty difficult but I'll definitely put that on my to-read list 11:15:05 Zhivago: I donno and I don't care.. I pretty much suspect that (defun) expands to blah blah blah (setf (fdefinition symbol) (lambda (args)))... internally somewhere 11:15:16 +1 for antoszka's 11:15:38 i wouldnt suggest Let over Lambda for beginners... 11:16:00 maxm: In that case, I suggest that you avoid talking about them. :) 11:16:07 but maybe for the mathematically interested 11:16:24 I think i understand what closures are about, theoretically, it's just that I can't come up with applications (except of using them to create "static" variables) 11:16:26 my point is that it sometimes hard to grasp "why" you need all that weird machinery, and you'll only grasp that by writing practical programs and having chance to use them. 11:16:28 churib__: You can thread it in between your primary learning. It's an important eye-opener IMO, even if you don't understand the macros deeply at first (which is the stage I'm at). 11:17:08 <__mal> lambda also closes over more than variables. you can do stuff like (tagbody .... (foo (lambda () (go bar))) ... bar). 11:17:20 anto, you're studying lol currently? 11:17:36 qqqqw: Well, just learning. 11:17:36 <__mal> CL's answer to Fortran's computed goto 11:17:53 __mal: don't think so 11:17:57 what have you read before you came to understand that book? 11:18:05 antoszka: LoL "depends" on On Lisp - so reading On Lisp first would be better 11:18:24 well tagbody closures have limitations that they have to be in dynamic scope when you jump to them, you can't exit your tagbody, and then if you try to (go) to a tag from a closure, you'll get an error 11:18:41 wish it worked tho 11:19:10 qqqqw: I'm reading PCL and PAIP in parallel. Don't have a deep understanding of all what's happening in LoL yet, but, as said above, it definitely widens the perception. 11:19:13 qqqqw: Practical Common Lisp is very good 11:19:22 <__mal> maxm: funcalling the closure containing (go ) works. Waters's SERIES implementation uses it a lot 11:19:36 maxm: closures and dynamic vars are something quite different 11:19:50 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-lgxdvccgygdjtniq] has left #lisp 11:19:56 churib: i know, i was reading acl but then some of you guys told me that graham hates cl and teaches a bad style, so now I'm learning both from pcl and acl 11:20:19 -!- scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:20:35 qqqqw: pcl is not written by graham 11:20:43 I think that it's unfair to say that PG hates CL. 11:20:44 no, acl is 11:20:52 He isn't very fond of CLOS, though. 11:20:55 so i switched to pcl to learn "good style" 11:20:59 oh misread this - sorry 11:21:25 But then, neither is Baker. 11:21:52 Deesl [~bsdboy@unaffiliated/deesl] has joined #lisp 11:22:35 zhivago: indeed i'm keeping on reading both books and pg's style doesn't seem bad or completely different from seibel's until now, but the two books complement each other in a way 11:22:57 pcl is much clearer in the explanation of some concepts 11:23:01 acl is more systematic 11:23:07 __mal: am I doing this wrong? http://paste.lisp.org/display/124199 11:23:20 qqqqw: I liked learning Haskell to get hang with functional style. It is less tempting than lisp. I think good style follows deep understanding. (Neither of which I would claim for myself) 11:24:08 " I think good style follows deep understanding" <--- I completely agree with you on that (although I guess someone can have a more fixed idea of what "good style" must be) 11:24:19 scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has joined #lisp 11:24:50 And I thought that is exactly what the liberty of lisp was to overcome with. 11:24:57 I've always programmed in imperative languages anyway, every lisp style looks strange and interesting to me 11:25:11 -!- EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Disconnected by services] 11:25:13 sometimes I even wonder how it is possible that so long ago someone could come up with such ideas for programming 11:25:28 but maybe it was easier for them because they hadn't the filter I have about modern programming styles 11:25:29 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 11:25:36 -!- Kostafey [~user@79.135.234.34] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:41 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 11:25:42 I think they took their time to think about their problems first. 11:25:42 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-zlqrzzzzyetsgbge] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 11:26:04 mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-osekiifnopirvujf] has joined #lisp 11:26:06 <__mal> maxm: no, you're right that you need to be inside the dynamic scope of the tagbody. it's not a poor man's continuations. but it can be useful to allow functions called from within the tagbody to decide where to go next. for stuff like state machines or so. 11:26:36 I agree, todays multitude of programming styles is tempting to just adopt one without thinking about. 11:27:29 EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 11:28:06 -!- churib__ is now known as churib 11:28:13 *maxm* tried to learn haskell but gave up within a day or so 11:28:55 is it complicated? 11:28:58 That's a pitty. It really takes its time to aspire the language. (As it does sometimes with lisp) 11:29:15 plus their flagship software (darcs) does not inspire confidence that its possible to write practical stuff in it 11:29:49 I admit that it is sometimes 'over acadamic' in design. 11:30:02 its just not "Easy".. I'm a lazy guy, and I like to be able to understand what a 3 line function does by glancing in it 11:30:10 well it is easier to use than git. But harder to compile, and sometimes has bugs. 11:30:48 pnq [~nick@AC81CFD0.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 11:31:26 haskell is more akin to APL or its successor K? (the market analysis system)... Yes you can calculate a difference between two moving averages divided by square root of volatility with 7 characters, but then you have 1 page of comments explaining what these characters do 11:31:48 *__mal* liked APL back in the days 11:32:06 don't get me wrong, I used darcs... i think git and hg are in fact probably inspired by it.. 11:32:13 Yeah, that was a language with a distinct style. 11:32:33 but I hit the exponential explosion problem using darcs to maintain my personal collection of shell scripts.. How can I trust it with bigger code bases? 11:32:38 hugod [~hugod@bas1-montreal50-1279442787.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 11:36:46 gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has joined #lisp 11:37:18 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 11:38:12 mishoo__ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 11:40:12 -!- arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 11:40:25 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 11:40:34 arbscht [~arbscht@60-234-133-173.bitstream.orcon.net.nz] has joined #lisp 11:41:17 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 11:42:11 -!- mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 11:42:30 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:45:12 -!- elfrosch [~Brnt@p578b57e4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:46:08 elfrosch [~Brnt@p578b57e4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has joined #lisp 11:48:21 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:48:23 kiuma_ [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 11:50:11 cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 11:52:36 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@ppp78-37-222-92.pppoe.avangarddsl.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:52:56 -!- qqqqw [~qwdddf@151.75.187.94] has quit [Quit: Sto andando via] 11:56:24 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 11:57:24 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 11:58:17 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 11:58:31 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Client Quit] 11:58:32 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:58:53 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 12:01:40 -!- paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:02:14 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.29.78] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 12:02:18 paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has joined #lisp 12:05:59 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD488.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 12:10:04 -!- poindont` [~user@122.163.206.163] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:11:47 bobbysmith007 [~russ@216.155.103.30] has joined #lisp 12:11:59 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 12:14:12 -!- Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:16:25 -!- mcsontos [~mcsontos@nat/redhat/x-osekiifnopirvujf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:20:27 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 12:20:35 -!- elfrosch [~Brnt@p578b57e4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 12:21:22 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.113] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:22:29 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.113] has joined #lisp 12:23:29 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 12:23:39 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.217] has joined #lisp 12:25:16 taiyall [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 12:25:37 Bucciarati [~buccia@www.inscatolati.net] has joined #lisp 12:28:26 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:30:17 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.119.5.82] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 12:30:20 -!- TeMPO[RAL] [~user@jiscser4.esc.rl.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Nyan] 12:31:00 -!- xan__ [~xan@94.119.4.118] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 12:34:38 EClaesson [~EClaesson@c-0f89e555.013-19-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 12:35:21 Are there much difference between different common lisp implementations? Specifically GNU CCLISP and Allegro Lisp 12:36:55 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81CFD0.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:36:57 <_3b> depends on what sort of differences you are interested in 12:37:12 <_3b> they both implement the same CL spec, so conforming code should run on either 12:37:17 EClaesson: if you stick to ansi common lisp, then there are no differences. real programs need non-ansi features, and those are different between all compilers. 12:37:30 <_3b> performance, extra libraries, etc vary quite a bit between implmentations though 12:38:46 Okay, there is a Common Lisp course in my uni that uses Allegro, and i'm playing with clisp at home. Just wanted to check i weren't doing anything bad :P 12:38:48 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-71-192-93-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:38:48 <_3b> clisp runs on lots of platforms, is free, uses less ram/HD space than a lot of implementations, comes with lots of extra libs, interprets by default or compiles to bytecode then interprets that 12:38:59 EClaesson: you should be fine. 12:39:03 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 12:39:17 from my anecdotal expiriences: clisp -> very fast compilation, not so fasnt execution, SBCL -> somewhat slow compilation, very fast execution.. Have not tried commercial lisps 12:39:19 <_3b> yeah, clisp should be OK for that, unless they expect you to use some allegro specific libs or features 12:39:23 I wonder why they are using allegro though 12:39:33 EClaesson: although the repls are quite different. allegro's repl is quite nice, and you might have trouble adapting to clisp's 12:39:47 repl? 12:40:04 EClaesson: repl is the interactive command line that you see when you start the lisp. repl == read eval print loop 12:40:16 ok 12:40:31 I could ssh to school though, but that isn't very fast 12:40:33 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 12:40:46 EClaesson: you could also download allegro, they have a "free" version 12:41:29 Just saw that :) 12:43:24 nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 12:44:51 -!- kiuma_ [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:44:55 kiuma__ [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 12:50:02 -!- ramkrsna [~ramkrsna@unaffiliated/ramkrsna] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 12:51:35 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:54:41 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 12:56:06 LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has joined #lisp 12:57:41 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 12:59:40 antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099682.dsl.bell.ca] has joined #lisp 13:02:48 -!- kiuma__ is now known as kiuma 13:03:16 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:03:42 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 13:03:50 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 13:03:53 Is the "official" lisp file extension .lisp or .cl? I've seen both 13:04:21 EClaesson: there is no official. most of the world uses .lisp. allegro uses .cl for a lot of stuff. 13:04:35 I've seen some people use .lsp which is truly ugly. 13:06:23 VMS programmers? 13:06:31 DOS refugees perhaps 13:07:29 -!- sacho [~sacho@95-42-121-139.btc-net.bg] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 13:09:40 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:09:51 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 13:10:20 cnl [~cnl@95.83.136.148] has joined #lisp 13:11:04 -!- kdas_ [~kdas@nat/redhat/x-koamengxzrwaxnpp] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 13:11:13 13WAAOKB4 [~silenius@pD4B9E81F.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:27 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-59-7.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:12:27 BrianRice` [~water@97-126-59-7.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 13:12:27 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 13:14:19 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:16:56 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:59 leyyer_su [~user@118.114.109.210] has joined #lisp 13:21:01 kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has joined #lisp 13:21:45 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 13:25:09 -!- taiyall [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:26:03 i think i've seen .l, too 13:26:10 not sure, though 13:31:20 <__mal> traditionally on unix, .l is for input to (f)lex 13:32:02 billstcalir [~billstcla@p-69-195-55-65.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:33:18 TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has joined #lisp 13:34:32 capivara [~capivara@201.86.15.28.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 13:34:33 ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has joined #lisp 13:34:44 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 13:35:34 Hey all. I was looking a little at atdoc for documentation of Common Lisp projects. Has anyone used this for their github-based projects, if so how does using this tool work in your process? Do you use something else? Was reading about the use of POD with perl (best practices book), and trying to find something similar for CL. 13:35:42 -!- billstcalir is now known as billstclair 13:35:46 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-55-65.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:35:46 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:35:48 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom26955d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:38:24 TDT: _8david is the author and might be the primary (or solitary) user, I believe. 13:39:49 urandom__ [~user@p548A4CA9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 13:39:56 rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has joined #lisp 13:40:13 charlie [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:42:23 -!- billstclair [wws@clozure-1D6F2C33.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Connection reset by peer] 13:42:39 billstcalir [~billstcla@p-69-195-55-65.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has joined #lisp 13:43:02 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has quit [Disconnected by services] 13:43:06 -!- billstcalir is now known as billstclair 13:43:11 -!- billstclair [~billstcla@p-69-195-55-65.dsl1.rtr.chat.fpma.frpt.net] has quit [Changing host] 13:43:11 billstclair [~billstcla@unaffiliated/billstclair] has joined #lisp 13:43:18 -!- jweiss [~user@nat/redhat/x-qrkwqcxderoqpucb] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:43:53 nicdev [~user@static-72-74-85-37.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:44:22 -!- nicdev is now known as nicdev_ 13:44:25 Xach: ah, I seeare there better maintained projects that approach the same goal? 13:45:11 I don't know of any. I'm sure atdoc is pretty good, 8david is pretty good, but he might also be the single source of advice & experience. 13:46:22 hmm I thought his nick was lichteblau here 13:46:45 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 13:47:07 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 13:47:21 Xach: Ah ok, thanks. Looks like the project hasn't been updated in a few yearsbut maybe it's easy enough to extend to the github format. Could contribute the changes back then. 13:47:23 He also uses that nick 13:49:15 -!- aerique [310225@xs8.xs4all.nl] has quit [Quit: ...] 13:49:31 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 13:49:34 scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has joined #lisp 13:50:07 xan_ [~xan@94.119.4.118] has joined #lisp 13:50:10 xan__ [~xan@94.119.5.125] has joined #lisp 13:50:51 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:15 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nom26955d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 13:51:42 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom26955d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 13:51:50 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:55:08 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:58:00 -!- xan__ [~xan@94.119.5.125] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:58:03 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.119.4.118] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:58:23 xan_ [~xan@94.119.5.240] has joined #lisp 14:01:58 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD9FD81AF.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:03:39 taylorj [~taylorj@rrcs-72-43-89-98.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 14:05:51 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 14:06:34 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:39 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-52.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 14:06:54 -!- paprika [~paprika@FL1-122-131-59-22.hrs.mesh.ad.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:08:21 -!- leyyer_su [~user@118.114.109.210] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 14:09:03 -!- taylorj [~taylorj@rrcs-72-43-89-98.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:10:30 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has left #lisp 14:13:27 pnq [~nick@AC816CAB.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:14:10 -!- Elench` is now known as Elench 14:17:10 -!- blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:18:12 Jubb [~ghost@24-151-24-155.dhcp.nwtn.ct.charter.com] has joined #lisp 14:18:49 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.217] has joined #lisp 14:20:30 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.20/20110805211839]] 14:21:00 -!- yakov [~yakov@109.188.170.228] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:22:18 scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has joined #lisp 14:24:19 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nom26955d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:24:19 -!- gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-71-192-93-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 14:28:02 -!- pnq [~nick@AC816CAB.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 14:28:13 juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has joined #lisp 14:29:31 -!- Jasko [~tjasko@c-174-59-204-245.hsd1.pa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:30:29 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom26955d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 14:32:46 ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 14:35:51 blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:36:55 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-218-0-98.cablep.bezeqint.net] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:38:05 oudeis [~oudeis@62.0.53.178] has joined #lisp 14:38:26 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 14:38:35 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 14:39:38 -!- blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:39:54 blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:40:15 -!- blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 14:40:40 blumbri [~blumbri@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:46:08 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 14:49:14 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 14:53:40 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 14:53:52 -!- ikki [~ikki@201.144.87.46] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:56:26 -!- scrimohsin [~cms@unaffiliated/scrimohsin] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:56:29 felideon: if you're used to using the dom then perhaps there isn't any. I think stp is just an alternative with a slightly different approach. 14:56:55 -!- sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:57:27 -!- Daev is now known as MeanWeen 14:57:32 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@62.0.53.178] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 14:58:23 -!- loke [~elias@bb115-66-85-121.singnet.com.sg] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 14:58:26 Fade: p_l said it was lispier! 14:58:39 i think i'm gonna post to the mailing list my specific question 14:59:08 well, I've only ever worked with xml much in python, so this is my first lisp excursion into the domain. 14:59:15 cheezus [~Adium@206-248-179-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 14:59:21 I chose stp, because it seemed better documented. :) 14:59:34 -!- dacoda [~user@gate.cdc.informatik.tu-darmstadt.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 15:00:23 -!- cheezus [~Adium@206-248-179-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:00:40 cheezus [~Adium@206-248-179-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 15:02:06 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 15:02:34 -!- kleppari_ [~spa@bitbucket.is] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:03:36 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.113] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 15:03:56 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 15:05:24 -!- hohum_ is now known as hohum 15:07:45 -!- Amyn [~abennama@64.208.49.45] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:09:18 -!- capivara [~capivara@201.86.15.28.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: capivara] 15:10:29 ikki [~ikki@201.155.92.12] has joined #lisp 15:11:33 doesthiswork [~Adium@he190123.dsl.fsr.net] has joined #lisp 15:12:31 -!- slyrus_ [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:18:14 Fade: did you try building XML, or were you just parsing? 15:23:10 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:23:18 kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has joined #lisp 15:24:00 so far I'm just parsing it. 15:24:31 have you done any generation? 15:24:54 -!- lnostdal_ [~lnostdal@ti0030a380-dhcp0111.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:25:09 i've been using stp and relax-ng 15:25:15 so far it's working well. 15:25:30 with cxml-dom yes, to build XML http requests 15:25:32 scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has joined #lisp 15:25:38 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@80.90.116.82] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:25:57 do you have any code you could paste? I'm going to be getting to that part soonish, and could use a head start. :) 15:27:01 sure let me see. 15:27:14 Amadiro [~Amadiro@ti0021a380-dhcp3462.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 15:27:32 felideon, Fade: I use cxml-dom and buildnode to generate website content. There are examples available 15:27:51 https://github.com/bobbysmith007/buildnode/blob/master/examples/xhtml.lisp 15:29:30 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 15:29:49 interesting. thanks 15:30:08 I was thinking about using yaclml 15:30:17 Fade: hmm I hadn't looked at what Relax-NG was. kind of like a simpler XSD? 15:30:21 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 15:30:26 yeah 15:30:35 the compact syntax is very terse 15:30:50 can take an rnc file and generate a dtd if you need 15:31:19 For common lisp development, specifically code completion, does anyone use http://cedet.sourceforge.net/ in emacs? or is there a project that allows for some kind of method code completion? 15:31:44 TDT: it's called SLIME. 15:31:48 slime 15:31:57 Fade: rnc? 15:32:01 slime-fuzzy-completion is popular. 15:32:03 -!- ehu` [~ehuels@109.32.30.100] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:32:04 I use SLIME with auto-complete-mode, too, to get even faster completion. 15:32:07 there are other completion modes. 15:32:24 Yeah, I use slime, but wasn't familiar with a code completion option when writing source code..in the reply, tab will show the functions, but didn't know there was a way when writing the source. 15:32:24 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:32:37 felideon: (r)elax (n)g (c)ompact 15:32:42 ah 15:33:00 TDT: there is. You need to actually use the completion binding to get it to complete, though. 15:33:47 -!- misoczki [~misoczki@2001:660:3013:3:222:19ff:fe24:d155] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 15:33:49 with auto-complete, you can even see a live preview of the guesstimated completion, get a little popup with possible completions, as well as documentation information that pops up from -that- popup. 15:35:26 I'll look into getting this into my .emacs config, thanks. 15:35:27 TDT: also take a look at `dabbrev-expand'/`hippie-expand' 15:35:46 -!- Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:36:33 Fade: err, forgot to colorize but oh well http://paste.lisp.org/+2NUD 15:36:53 awesome. thanks. :) 15:36:58 Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 15:37:42 Fade: each "wrapper" is just a struct containing a few fields (:conc-name ar-) 15:38:48 *nod* 15:39:20 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 15:39:34 I annotated it with something it with a sample output. 15:39:57 gkeith_lt [~gkeith@c-71-192-93-12.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 15:41:26 Fade: so compare that with what I was trying to do last night with cxml-stp 15:41:28 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124195 15:42:14 I guess one could write a function or macro similar to dom's WITH-ELEMENT 15:42:47 *Xach* would be included to do that with non-code templates as much as possible 15:43:40 -!- BrianRice [~water@97-126-59-7.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Quit: BrianRice] 15:45:22 Xach: inclined or included? in any case, what do you mean? 15:45:31 "inclined". oops. 15:45:59 felideon: i mean not having calls to macros or functions, but having some more abstract structure into which values or chunks of the document could be spliced. 15:46:06 dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:46:17 and turning that into a function to produce the output via some backend 15:46:49 you mean like a templating system? 15:47:03 -!- dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Client Quit] 15:47:24 dl` [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has joined #lisp 15:47:29 yes 15:47:57 Now, I haven't actually *built* anything like that, so maybe I'd change my mind after a few rounds of it. 15:47:58 -!- dl` is now known as dl 15:48:23 well, one of the things I was considering was yaclml 15:48:42 oh yes, an xml templating hack for CXML would be useful. I've managed with substituting nodes in a dummy STP-parsed fragment so far. 15:50:18 Sounds interesting. 15:50:44 Could TAL not be hacked for such a thing? 15:52:12 TALCL apparently already does. 15:52:22 http://www.cliki.net/TALCL 15:52:35 bobbysmith was just here... 15:52:42 *felideon* summons bobbysmith007 15:52:47 heh yeah.l 15:52:49 -!- tfb [~tfb@80.238.0.145] has quit [Quit: sleeping] 15:53:44 I used to talk to google calender. 15:55:46 ah, nice. 15:55:56 most of what I have to generate is quite short, so that could work well for me. 15:57:27 seems like it might be more natural to do this at the SAX level. 15:57:30 -!- jdz [~jdz@193.206.22.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 15:58:39 felideon: sorry, whats up? 16:00:32 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has joined #lisp 16:00:36 bobbysmith007: he was looking for some discussionabout talcl 16:02:29 such as? We use it for all our templating needs and seems to work well for us, so of course I would say that. It integrates pretty well with dom/buildnode stuff I mentioned earlier so that putting template content into a dom or dom content into a template are both pretty seamless. Not sure what else to add that is not stated in the README 16:02:55 <>, so of course I would say that 16:03:20 I was just curious if it had ever been used in an actual system, so cool. :) 16:03:42 Yeah it drives the content on and website template on http://gainesville-green.com/ 16:04:08 it is also in use a couple of internal applications, but I cant send you urls of those 16:04:25 sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has joined #lisp 16:04:28 > out to lunch be back in an hour or so 16:04:51 yeah, my concept of templating revolved around HTML, so I wanted to know how feasible (Which you've answered above) it was was it to integreate/use with cxml. 16:06:15 and it's all conveniently in quicklisp. 16:06:20 :)) 16:06:20 is there a copy-instance (for shallow cloning CLOS) objects in one of popular kitchen sink libraries? 16:06:27 or should I roll my own? 16:07:44 Xach: thanks for sharing your inclination. 16:08:27 -!- e-user [~e-user@nat/nokia/x-xetkkmkoaezpqcdf] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:11:25 -!- ramusara [~ramusara@220.156.210.236.user.e-catv.ne.jp] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:12:31 guess not, /me appropriates copy-instance.lisp by michael weber for his utility lib 16:13:27 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-153.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:14:15 maxm: (copy-instance #P"copy-instance.lisp") [: 16:14:52 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-2.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 16:17:14 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.130] has joined #lisp 16:19:12 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 16:20:08 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:20:17 -!- varjag [~eugene@122.62-97-226.bkkb.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:20:37 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:21:26 oudeis [~oudeis@bzq-79-183-207-239.red.bezeqint.net] has joined #lisp 16:21:42 Amyn [~abennama@cac94-2-87-91-21-215.dsl.sta.abo.bbox.fr] has joined #lisp 16:24:05 -!- dlowe 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[~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 16:50:28 manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD488.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 16:50:47 phadthai_ [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has joined #lisp 16:51:03 -!- phadthai [mmondor@ginseng.pulsar-zone.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:11 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:51:14 -!- kiuma [~kiuma@85-18-55-37.ip.fastwebnet.it] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 16:51:38 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-34-63.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 16:51:39 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@adsl-89-132-34-63.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Changing host] 16:51:39 attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has joined #lisp 16:52:18 Mandus_ [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has joined #lisp 16:52:21 tigranes [~user@static-50-53-75-48.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has joined #lisp 16:52:28 -!- Mandus [~aasmundo@oro.simula.no] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:52:30 *maxm* is splitting his 900 lines file into smaller ones, now thats a chore 16:52:35 -!- Mandus_ is now known as Mandus 16:52:41 -!- 13WAAOKB4 [~silenius@pD4B9E81F.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:52:46 schmx [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 16:52:46 -!- schmx [~marcus@c83-254-205-42.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Changing host] 16:52:46 schmx [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has joined #lisp 16:53:48 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:53:58 Hi! Is there a standard way to handle the array out of bounds error AREF signals? The condition seems to be SB-INT:INVALID-ARRAY-INDEX-ERROR, which makes me wonder if I'm doing something wrong. Shouldn't there be a standard condition for that? 16:54:16 rabite_ [~rabite@4chan.fm] has joined #lisp 16:55:03 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 16:55:30 hyperspec does not say anything 16:56:17 Ralith_ [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 16:56:22 dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-hnawcomsslcoeovs] has joined #lisp 16:56:39 -!- schme [~marcus@sxemacs/devel/schme] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:39 -!- rabite [~rabite@4chan.fm] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:40 -!- Ralith [~ralith@S010600221561996a.vc.shawcable.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:41 -!- aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 16:56:45 aoh [~aki@adsl-99-115.netplaza.fi] has joined #lisp 16:56:53 which is strange.. Just catch (error) if you want to be portable 16:57:08 It is definitely strange. Will do, thanks 16:57:18 I wonder if that's an oversight. elt says signals type-error if index isn't a valid sequence index for sequence. 16:57:22 are you trying to do something fancy like auto-extend on error? 16:58:20 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:58:49 maxm: Not really, just need to compare two elements of an array that might or might not exist, and that seemed like the most concise way to do that. 16:59:06 probably better just check (length) 16:59:07 pinterface: Hmm, curious indeed. 16:59:19 The array might not exist? 17:02:21 HG` [~HG@p5DC04BEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:03:27 Zhivago: The array always exists (checked before), I just need to get the greater of two elements, one of which might not exist. 17:03:49 Depending on your safety and optimize settings, a check for the index being within the bounds of the array may not even occur. 17:03:59 billitch [~billitch@bastille.ma3.tv] has joined #lisp 17:04:13 don't overthink man, just code it in simplest manner you can think of 17:04:30 the best code is the one that does obvious things in obvious ways 17:04:32 This is one of those places where a first class 'unbound' value would be nice. 17:09:04 pnq [~nick@ACA2EC90.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 17:12:04 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 17:13:10 -!- lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 17:13:34 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [] 17:16:24 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-210-200.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 17:16:44 oudeis [~oudeis@77.127.184.174] has joined #lisp 17:16:58 lnostdal [~Lars@ti0030a380-dhcp2618.bb.online.no] has joined #lisp 17:20:16 cess11 [alla@95.209.163.3] has joined #lisp 17:20:28 One more thing regarding style: (list (list (1- row) col) (list (1- row) (1- col))) or `((,(1- row) col) (,(1- row) ,(1- col))) ? 17:21:14 TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:203:47ff:fe8f:f55] has joined #lisp 17:21:23 (co-ordinate row col), or some suitable name :) 17:21:35 -!- antgreen [~user@bas3-toronto06-2925099682.dsl.bell.ca] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:21:49 -!- Species8472 [~user1@89-68-164-76.dynamic.chello.pl] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:22:14 Hmm, good point 17:23:59 -!- c_arenz [~arenz@nat/ibm/x-ozrnqrdalsekuevd] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:27:49 mg4002 [~mg4001@cpe-98-148-141-172.socal.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 17:28:21 -!- churib [~user@95.156.194.105] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:29:36 -!- Bike1 [~Glossina@69.166.35.238] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:31:59 -!- Spion_ [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:32:12 Is the weblocks website supposed to work (http://weblocks.viridian-project.de/) ? It doesnt seem to be. (Someone asked me a question about it and I wanted to see what it was, but cant beyond the cl.net page that says its outdated) 17:38:42 -!- ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-ttvhppzllgzisljs] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:27 -!- tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 17:40:36 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 17:40:36 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 17:40:38 -!- nikodemus_ [~nikodemus@cs181056239.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:40:39 -!- hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:40:57 hlavaty [~user@91-65-217-112-dynip.superkabel.de] has joined #lisp 17:41:10 ocharles [u411@gateway/web/irccloud.com/x-octlirhnkfbolarr] has joined #lisp 17:41:23 tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has joined #lisp 17:41:33 kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has joined #lisp 17:43:19 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CB7B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 17:44:23 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:46:26 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 17:46:48 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 17:47:21 -!- TDT [~TDT@5317-nat01.eng.uiowa.edu] has quit [Quit: TDT] 17:49:04 nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has joined #lisp 17:51:34 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 17:52:14 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@nom26955d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 17:53:47 -!- spacefrogg [~spacefrog@unaffiliated/spacefrogg] has quit [Quit: spacefrogg] 17:55:27 hmm either a largest track ever just went by my house, or nyc had a small earthquake 17:55:52 http://earthquake.usgs.gov/earthquakes/recenteqsww/Maps/region/N_America.php 17:56:05 virginia 17:56:11 -!- mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 17:57:56 Xach: people are feeling it in NYC too 17:59:08 LiamH mentioned it in #quicklisp, he's in DC. 18:00:54 codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:02:03 mathrick [~mathrick@85.218.136.127] has joined #lisp 18:06:26 lusory [~bart@bb121-6-161-222.singnet.com.sg] has joined #lisp 18:11:16 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@77.127.184.174] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:12:17 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:15:20 man even headline writing is outsourced: Some items could be heard falling from shelves. A number of employees went left the building. 18:16:19 Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27930d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has joined #lisp 18:17:25 ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has joined #lisp 18:17:37 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.200] has joined #lisp 18:21:13 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:21:22 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-135-52.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 18:21:28 -!- nikodemus [~nikodemus@cs181063174.pp.htv.fi] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 18:22:12 -!- naeg [~naeg@194.208.239.170] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.5] 18:33:10 Fade: cxml-stp somehow felt right with lisp's MAPCAR and LOOP 18:34:10 -!- LiamH [~none@pdp8.nrl.navy.mil] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:36:26 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2EC90.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 18:38:21 thanks whoever fixed the weblocks site ! 18:39:09 bobbysmith007: Glad it's back up. That's lpolzer's personal server but the google group and bitbucket tend to stay up and active. :) 18:44:33 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.200] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 18:47:41 -!- cheezus [~Adium@206-248-179-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 18:48:42 cheezus [~Adium@206-248-179-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 18:49:29 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 18:52:37 kpreid [~kpreid@cpe-67-249-228-147.twcny.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:01:14 boiantz [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has joined #lisp 19:02:27 Somelauw [~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw] has joined #lisp 19:03:00 Do people generally like the reduce statement. Personally I think it looks confusing. 19:03:21 I like it when it's the best way to solve my problem. 19:03:43 Somelauw: what xach said, (sometimes its the right answer and sometimes not) 19:04:13 nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has joined #lisp 19:04:33 I want to find matching brackets and store matching positions in a hashmap. 19:04:46 Make it so. 19:05:08 So that is when I tried putting it in a reduce and noticed it was getting complicated. 19:05:20 That doesn't seem like a particularly good tool for the job. 19:06:12 depends on what you reduce on. 19:06:41 It could make sense to reduce the stack of bracket marks, but leave the hash table out of it and just mutate it as usual. 19:10:04 Hunden [~Hunden@e180104238.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:10:04 -!- Hunden [~Hunden@e180104238.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Client Quit] 19:11:37 tncardoso [~thiago@189.59.179.138.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has joined #lisp 19:12:03 benny99 [~benny@f055060174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has joined #lisp 19:12:06 Since you want to calculate multiple values when iterating trough the list the reducefunction gets a bit complicated. 19:13:48 -!- tigranes [~user@static-50-53-75-48.bvtn.or.frontiernet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 19:14:10 -!- EClaesson [~EClaesson@c-0f89e555.013-19-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: leaving] 19:15:06 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-hnawcomsslcoeovs] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:15:24 Somelauw: not a great use of reduce (but certainly possible). This is probably better handled iteratively with a stack or recursively (where the stack is just encoded in the recusion) 19:15:34 milanj [~milanj_@178-223-159-28.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has joined #lisp 19:16:20 Somelauw: a good use of reduce is things like summing lists of numbers (where you already have the lists) or one from recent memory unioning together a list of lists (reduce #'union l-o-l) 19:17:18 I really only tend to reduce when I already have a function that does exactly what I want and now I need to apply that to an extant list of things 19:17:22 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.217] has joined #lisp 19:18:13 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.159.252] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:19:40 I'd do it with a loop 19:21:39 (let ((openings nil)) (loop for char across *string* for index from 0 when (char= char #\() do (push index openings) when (char= char #\)) collect (cons (pop openings) index))) 19:21:58 perhaps i'm missing something obvious 19:22:16 danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-21-223.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:23:53 oudeis [~oudeis@77.127.160.65] has joined #lisp 19:24:19 Does anyone know the entomology of "perec". Does it mean something or come from somewhere? 19:25:16 bobbysmith007: Yeah, maybe functional programming isn't always that readable. 19:25:27 I prefer foreach sometimes. 19:25:35 danlentz: it literally means "pretzel". I don't know why it was used to name the software, though. 19:25:42 For summing it works without a problem. 19:26:05 Or maybe recursive is cleaner. 19:26:17 daniel: PER is persistent, and the rest is I think just something that sounds good in hungarian... :) 19:26:38 s/daniel/danlentz/ 19:26:38 Somelauw: I try not to cling to any particular paradigm, I tend to try to grab whatever tool looks easiest for the task at hand... I would expect recusion should produce a very clean solution to this problem 19:27:13 danlentz: might be something english-abbreviation-meaningful also, but I don't recall anything just now 19:28:00 attila_lendvai: Pretzel is kind of catchier 19:28:21 danlentz: well, perec is pretzel in hungarian... :) 19:30:29 attila_lendvai: Has anyone taken a stab at any type of rdf implementation on top of perecs passociations? 19:31:00 danlentz: not that I know of 19:33:13 any mop experts? Apparently I can't inherit classes with different metaclass, getting error that meta-classes are different and incompatible. Define a method sb-mop:validate-superclass to avoid this error 19:33:53 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 19:33:55 should I define validate-superclasses as it suggests? I'm basically refactoring the code and trying to move common stuff into mixins 19:34:14 but my "main" classes are qt objects and thus have :metaclass qt-class 19:34:32 maxm: I tend to make all superclasses have the same metaclass even if it requires that i make an extra class def (qt-class-mixin1) 19:34:47 maybe not the *best* way, but has not failed me so far 19:34:52 -!- kushal [~kdas@fedora/kushal] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 19:35:09 -!- codelurker [~codelurke@c-24-91-16-174.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 19:35:22 bobbysmith007: well qt-class requires specifying the QT class that we are inhertinig from, so I can't quite have it specified in the base class, since my main objects all inherit from different qt classes 19:35:52 coz that was the first idea I tried :-) 19:36:06 Somelauw: something like , maybe. 19:36:23 -!- scottmaccal [~scottmacc@firewall.portland.lib.me.us] has quit [Quit: ChatZilla 0.9.87 [Firefox 3.6.20/20110805211839]] 19:37:14 -!- benny99 [~benny@f055060174.adsl.alicedsl.de] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 19:37:33 hmm, what I'll do is define my own empty superclass inherting standard-object, and make validate-superclasses to return T between it and qt-class, and see if anything breaks 19:37:34 maxm: there's no universal base class in QT? Looks like you'll have to insert code in validate-superclasses. 19:37:38 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-20-16.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 19:38:32 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@nom27930d.nomadic.ncsu.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 19:38:33 pkhuong: there is actually, QObject, but I'm not sure how qt-class will react if base class specifies (qt-inherits "QObject") and the main class says (qt-inherits "QGraphicsScene") 19:38:54 maxm: there's a simple way to find out (: 19:39:17 CommonQT docs says if you use inheritance, you can only specify qt-inhertits once, and that is in the base class 19:40:19 a mixin metaclass could be useful then. 19:41:38 yea thats what I'm doing (def class qt-compatible-mixin (standard-object) 19:41:39 ()) (def method validate-superclass ((c1 qt-compatible-mixin) (c2 qt-class)) t) 19:42:44 ok not so easy: Invalid initialization arguments: 19:42:44 :direct-default-initargs, :documentation, sb-pcl::safe-p, 19:42:44 :definition-source, :direct-slots, :direct-superclasses in call for class qt-compatible-mixin 19:42:51 -!- danlentz [~danlentz@c-69-141-21-223.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:42:56 danlentz_ [~danlentz@c-69-141-21-223.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:42:58 this is my first excursion into the metaclass land 19:45:28 doh it needs to inherit standard-class not standard-object 19:45:41 ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 19:46:06 well it compiled 19:49:01 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 19:49:49 -!- shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Disconnected by services] 19:49:54 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 19:51:30 well it compiles, but I'm getting warning for every slot access 19:51:36 hello. would appreciate some tips on how to write this macro. question is in the comments. 19:51:47 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 19:51:53 :note: Cannot optimize slot access, inheritance of # is not yet finaliable due to forward-referenced superclasses: (slot-value #:g2028 'style) 19:51:57 fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 19:51:59 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124221 19:52:20 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:52:47 shaggy-: Do the loop in the macroexpander, not the macroexpansion. 19:52:54 should have been: how to get value of variable with ,obj symbol? 19:52:56 maxm: finalize the (meta-) class. 19:53:05 -!- fbass [~fbass@75-173-95-248.albq.qwest.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:53:25 pkhuong: what does it mean just call finalize-class on it? 19:53:42 e.g. `(progn ,@(mapcar (lambda (form) `(format t "~S=~S" ',form ,form)) forms)))) or similar. 19:53:43 yup. 19:54:04 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 19:54:53 I see let me try 19:56:53 no still getting errors, there is no finalize-class, I called (finalize-inheritance (find-class 'qt-compatible-mixin)), but recompiling any methods specializing on classes that inherit qt-compatible-mixin still get the errors 19:57:00 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 19:57:25 -!- MasseR [~masse@dyn68-323.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 19:58:05 ok I think I had a typo in class name thats all 19:58:08 maxm: the inherit that class, or have it as a meta class? 19:58:20 -!- boiantz [~boiantz@92-247-214-154.spectrumnet.bg] has left #lisp 19:59:43 great it worked. i am just not sure if I need gensym for form there? (lambda (form) 20:00:48 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-20-16.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 20:02:40 shaggy-: No. 20:02:55 It's only evaluated once. 20:03:20 everything went better then expected... Splitted up my 900 lines file into nice tiny pieces, refactored common stuff into superclass, and everything worked from first try 20:03:53 http://paste.lisp.org/display/124221#1 I've put it anyway 20:03:55 *Xach* looks forward to a nice library from maxm! 20:04:18 shaggy-: Well, that's pointless. The inner FORM shadows the outer one. 20:04:35 Xach: I have no problem releasing the charting part, but it relies a lot of my trading stuff, which is a huge C++ mess of a library in development since 2002 or so 20:04:55 but market data can be abstracted, since its pretty much all arrays 20:05:38 Rewrite in CL, cut size to 1/10th 20:05:46 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:16 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-20-16.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 20:06:42 well I kind of abandoned it a bit, now trying to pick it up again... Like in 2000/2001/2002 when everyone was a "daytrader", I was like "hey I'm a pretty good programmer", I'll write me a program that daytrades 20:07:08 well, several thousand dollars poorer, it kind of became a hobby project, that never trader real money again 20:07:41 but now that I got unemployed, I'm watching these guys trading futures, and man they are making money.. 20:08:21 so I'm back into trying to figure out how they do it.. But they all rely on tradestation and vague description of charting stuff, so in order to replicate what they do, I need similar charting program 20:08:32 EClaesson [~EClaesson@c-0f89e555.013-19-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has joined #lisp 20:09:01 MasseR [~masse@dyn68-323.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 20:09:01 -!- prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75dfee.pool.mediaWays.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:09:03 Does format usually make string arguments (~s) uppercase? 20:09:20 EClaesson: by default lisp is all uppercase 20:09:34 EClaesson: no. are you sure it's not symbols you're printing? 20:09:46 a (symbol-name 'x) actually returns "X".. Its the (read) that converts it 20:10:36 pkhuong, maxm: (defun karta (term) (format t "http://maps.google.com/maps?q=~s" term) 20:10:36 yes he's printing symbols.. Just wrap the expressions into (string-downcase) 20:10:50 )okay, thanks 20:11:11 EClaesson: but it depends what term is, if term is a symbol like 'foo, it will print FOO 20:11:31 if term is "foo" but it prints "FOO" then verify your *print-case* 20:12:04 actually I think *print-case* is for symbols only too 20:12:12 EClaesson: strings are written between "quotes". 20:12:34 ASau [~user@95-26-244-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 20:13:23 Last question before i open the book right next to me... Are there anything similar to format that returns the string and not prints it? Or can i change the stream (t) to something else? 20:13:35 EClaesson: (format nil ...) 20:13:51 or use with-output-to-string 20:16:43 Xach I'm trying to grasp this, and I'm not sure why lambda's form argument wouldn't clash with outter form, ie (print-object form) 20:17:24 dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-rbggcyzdomyxirez] has joined #lisp 20:18:27 shaggy-: that would pass the symbol FORM to the macro. Using that name as a lexical variable in the macroexpander will have no impact. 20:19:17 shaggy-: the function and its variables run at a different time than the form(s) it returns. 20:20:07 Xach: If i get the quotes in the returned result? As in maps?q="my_term" 20:20:56 Use ~a instead of ~s, I think. 20:21:36 Nice, thanks :) 20:23:50 -!- TristamWrk [~tristamwr@2620:0:2820:b03:203:47ff:fe8f:f55] has quit [Quit: Some days you're the pigeon, some days the statue...] 20:24:21 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04BEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:24:39 -!- naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 20:24:44 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.217] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:27:00 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.172] has joined #lisp 20:29:50 -!- manuel_ [~manuel_@pD9FDD488.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: manuel_] 20:31:18 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:31:40 -!- phadthai_ is now known as phadthai 20:35:07 -!- mg4002 [~mg4001@cpe-98-148-141-172.socal.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:35:34 -!- jdz [~jdz@host202-105-dynamic.5-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:35:57 macrobat [~fuzzyglee@h-17-133.a328.priv.bahnhof.se] has joined #lisp 20:37:46 aaagirl [~aaagirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has joined #lisp 20:39:34 -!- aaagirl [~aaagirl@212-198-248-35.rev.numericable.fr] has quit [Client Quit] 20:40:11 frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:05 fritox [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has joined #lisp 20:41:05 -!- frito [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:17 -!- Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:42:41 Daev [~KAPITAL@cpe-174-097-129-008.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:47:38 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:47:49 paul0 [~paul0@189.101.242.184] has joined #lisp 20:49:56 allandee [~allandee@212.45.113.84] has joined #lisp 20:50:44 hmm. no minion? 20:52:19 -!- nonduality [~alex@chello084114039189.14.vie.surfer.at] has quit [] 20:57:57 ehu: earthquake 20:58:20 jiacobucci: sure. but where's minion's data center then? 20:58:29 -!- fritox [~androirc@cpc12-sotn9-2-0-cust578.15-1.cable.virginmedia.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 20:58:32 I mean, the Tech Coop servers are still running. 20:58:54 (including paste.lisp.org) 20:59:40 -!- dlowe [~dlowe@nat/google/x-rbggcyzdomyxirez] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 20:59:49 I was joking. Apparently a lot of people are freaking out about it. I think everyone misses minion 20:59:50 -!- zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:02 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-212-2.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:00:18 -!- dl [~download@chpcwl01.hpc.unm.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:00:27 -!- Somelauw [~Somelauw@unaffiliated/somelauw] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.2] 21:00:30 ok. too bad. I'm not sure who's running it. 21:00:44 but if I need to kick a server, I hope someone tells me. 21:03:33 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@77.127.160.65] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 21:05:34 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:08:39 -!- Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.172] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 21:10:09 Munksgaard [~Munksgaar@168.22.19.172] has joined #lisp 21:12:07 -!- rmarianski [~rmariansk@mail.marianski.com] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:12:58 hmm, I think I need a better understanding of the theoretical side of lisp, like the lambda calculus 21:13:02 any recommended readings? 21:14:44 jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has joined #lisp 21:18:21 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-92-101-158-153.vologda.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:19:47 *Xach* has not found that knowing nothing of the lambda calculus has been a big impediment yet 21:21:00 but i keep feeling I just don't "get" it :\ 21:21:17 anvandare: lambda calculus. Is that the thing with all the 'h'-es? 21:21:56 ambda, ambda, ambda, I made it out of substitution 21:22:40 Perhaps it will help if you write software in CL. 21:24:16 -!- tessier [~treed@216.105.40.125] has quit [Changing host] 21:24:16 tessier [~treed@kernel-panic/copilotco] has joined #lisp 21:25:05 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:26:16 kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has joined #lisp 21:26:19 Hello 21:26:38 Are there any common-music users here? Or do you know where I can meet some? 21:27:24 kennyd [~kennyd@93-136-73-140.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 21:28:25 -!- pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:29:38 common-music has become a scheme system 21:29:54 possibly the folks in #scheme know more about it in its current form. 21:30:04 -!- cheezus [~Adium@206-248-179-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:30:05 -!- shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 21:30:34 Fade: do you know why it isn't a CL system any more? 21:30:59 not sure. I guess the author felt scheme was a better match? 21:31:09 Fade: thank you 21:31:49 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-210-187-83.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 21:32:14 cl-gtk2 copies excessively from native types 21:33:29 -!- ChibaPet [~mason@74.203.221.34] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:33:55 dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:37:25 -!- nano- [nano@debian.as] has quit [Changing host] 21:37:25 nano- [nano@xmms2/developer/nano] has joined #lisp 21:39:11 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 21:40:27 pavelludiq [~pavelludi@87.246.58.193] has joined #lisp 21:41:14 -!- tncardoso [~thiago@189.59.179.138.dynamic.adsl.gvt.net.br] has quit [Quit: bye] 21:42:50 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-20-16.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 21:43:39 -!- fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has quit [Quit: leaving] 21:44:14 fmeyer [~fmeyer@187.38.98.102] has joined #lisp 21:47:02 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has joined #lisp 21:47:41 -!- am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:48:05 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 21:48:20 LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-20-16.washdc.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:49:40 ltriant [~ltriant@lithium.mailguard.com.au] has joined #lisp 21:49:50 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 21:50:34 -!- sonnym [~sonny@singlebrookvpn.lightlink.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 21:52:45 am0c [~am0c@222.235.49.72] has joined #lisp 21:52:48 bye 21:52:51 -!- kami [~user@unaffiliated/kami-] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 21:55:00 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 21:56:01 prxq [~mommer@mnhm-5f75dfee.pool.mediaWays.net] has joined #lisp 21:56:18 -!- cyrillos_ [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:56:22 hi 22:02:20 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Disconnected by services] 22:02:20 attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-205-26.monradsl.monornet.hu] has joined #lisp 22:02:43 -!- EClaesson [~EClaesson@c-0f89e555.013-19-6c6b7013.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se] has quit [Quit: Lost terminal] 22:06:14 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 22:06:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 22:06:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 22:06:48 anom [~anom@80.174.144.36.dyn.user.ono.com] has joined #lisp 22:06:51 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 22:07:35 -!- charlie [~user@c-68-53-57-241.hsd1.tn.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:07:51 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.130] has joined #lisp 22:08:15 is it possible to combine string literals in lisp somehow without using a function? I want to split docstring into several lines without adding a newline. something like "foo" "bar" in C 22:09:44 you can use (setf documentation) for that 22:09:59 or write a my-defun macro if deemed worthy 22:10:07 shaggy-: why would you want to avoid newlines ? 22:10:18 HG` [~HG@p5DC04BEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 22:11:35 zelak [~zelak@pdpc/supporter/student/zelak] has joined #lisp 22:16:40 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04BEC.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:21:22 seemed it wasn't my place to decide at how many columns docstring is wrapped 22:21:26 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.130] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:24:33 ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has joined #lisp 22:24:36 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 22:24:57 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.11.167] has joined #lisp 22:25:48 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 22:25:53 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:26:29 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-210-200.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 22:27:30 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.130] has joined #lisp 22:28:36 naryl [~weechat@213.170.70.141] has joined #lisp 22:30:44 cheezus [~Adium@206-248-179-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has joined #lisp 22:30:55 -!- anom [~anom@80.174.144.36.dyn.user.ono.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:32:24 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-210-200.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:32:57 -!- ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:34:07 -!- cheezus [~Adium@206-248-179-84.dsl.teksavvy.com] has quit [Client Quit] 22:35:09 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.11.167] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 22:35:18 sacho [~sacho@95-42-121-139.btc-net.bg] has joined #lisp 22:35:21 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 22:36:20 Phoodus [~foo@68.107.217.139] has joined #lisp 22:37:14 -!- shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 22:41:47 -!- milanj [~milanj_@178-223-159-28.dynamic.isp.telekom.rs] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:44:04 -!- xan_ [~xan@94.119.5.240] has quit [Quit: leaving] 22:45:49 sonnym [~sonny@rrcs-184-74-137-69.nys.biz.rr.com] has joined #lisp 22:46:17 ihyoyoung_ [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has joined #lisp 22:50:12 -!- ihyoyoung [raster@enlightenment2.osuosl.org] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 22:55:29 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 22:56:21 -!- ch077179 [~ch077179@unaffiliated/ch077179] has quit [Quit: Verlassend] 22:58:58 -!- Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 23:01:12 -!- Harag [~Harag@dsl-242-246-47.telkomadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:03:49 sellout1 [~Adium@c-98-245-161-7.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:04:27 -!- rtoyg [~chatzilla@nat/google/x-qnxvvenlznbghfvz] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 23:05:09 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:06:25 -!- oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:08:59 -!- danlentz_ [~danlentz@c-69-141-21-223.hsd1.nj.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: Colloquy for iPhone - http://colloquy.mobi] 23:09:19 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:10:03 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 23:15:45 Bike [~Glossina@69.166.35.237] has joined #lisp 23:18:11 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 23:20:12 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 23:22:03 -!- schoppenhauer [~christoph@unaffiliated/schoppenhauer] has quit [Quit: leaving] 23:24:24 REPLeffect [~REPLeffec@69.54.115.254] has joined #lisp 23:25:41 H4ns` [~user@p4FFC9911.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:28:26 -!- LiamH [~healy@pool-108-45-20-16.washdc.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:29:19 -!- H4ns [~user@p4FFC8D31.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:32:09 -!- setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 23:36:00 oconnore [~Eric@c-66-31-125-56.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 23:39:56 compiling cllib, pretty old now, getting an error - `unknown type specifier: 'PACKAGE' - simple fix? 23:40:13 up-to-date sbcl by the way 23:41:59 -!- daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has quit [Quit: Bye] 23:42:16 daedric [~daedric@sd-22082.dedibox.fr] has joined #lisp 23:42:25 do you know if the kernel language has a channel? 23:42:33 ISF [~ivan@143.106.196.130] has joined #lisp 23:43:37 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:44:07 doesthiswork: There's something kernel-ish at #clutter. 23:44:19 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-210-200.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 245 seconds] 23:45:03 funny :P 23:45:16 dnolen [~davidnole@pool-68-161-60-27.ny325.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 23:45:33 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:47:29 -!- attila_lendvai1 [~attila_le@adsl-89-135-205-26.monradsl.monornet.hu] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 23:50:07 setmeaway [~setmeaway@183.106.96.61] has joined #lisp 23:51:53 -!- Daev is now known as MeanWeen 23:54:05 -!- Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 23:54:31 Oddity [~Oddity@unaffiliated/oddity] has joined #lisp 23:55:14 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp