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joined #lisp 01:00:21 xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.21] has joined #lisp 01:03:20 tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has joined #lisp 01:06:20 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 01:06:45 -!- ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 01:07:26 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.161.249] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 01:14:42 -!- kennyd_ [~kennyd@93-138-66-118.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 01:21:05 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 01:27:27 kennyd [~kennyd@93-141-99-169.adsl.net.t-com.hr] has joined #lisp 01:33:14 If i'm only interested in their NTH-VALUE 0, which has better performance characteristics FLOOR or TRUNCATE for where first arg is an unsigned-byte 8 and second is a nibble? 01:34:18 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:34:23 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 01:35:04 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 01:36:01 -!- Yuuhi` [benni@p5483D197.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 01:36:12 -!- SegFaultAX [~mkbernard@VEROXITY.ipcolo1.SanFrancisco1.Level3.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 01:39:20 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 01:39:45 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 01:41:06 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:41:23 summersault [~george@189.107.199.132] has joined #lisp 01:41:47 Some quick timing tests should be able to answer that question in regards to your implementation on your platform. 01:42:15 pinterface: yes. 01:43:16 pinterface: was more interested to learn if there might be some mathematical rationale :) 01:44:28 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@61.160.83.66] has quit [Quit: ] 01:44:46 -!- xan_ [~xan@140.109.127.21] has quit [Quit: leaving] 01:47:06 Assuming a sufficiently smart compiler, I'd expect them to be compiled to the same thing. ;) 01:47:25 FSOV 01:47:39 -!- MeanWeen is now known as M-x_slime 01:47:53 -!- M-x_slime is now known as MeanWeen 01:52:57 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@212.25.69.18] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 01:54:13 -!- gigamonkey [~user@adsl-99-62-72-78.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 01:54:34 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 01:54:56 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 01:56:23 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 02:02:04 wolfpython [~wolf@61.160.83.66] has joined #lisp 02:04:58 -!- cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 02:05:04 cYmen [~cymen@squint.a-oben.org] has joined #lisp 02:10:13 -!- Guthur [~Guthur@212.183.128.66] has 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[~xyxu@58.41.14.212] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:51:46 -!- slyrus [~chatzilla@99-28-163-38.lightspeed.miamfl.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 03:53:41 -!- summersault [~george@189.107.199.132] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:02:35 -!- pnq [~nick@AC81CCE1.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 04:05:29 -!- poindontcare [~user@122.176.246.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 04:09:56 ls -a 04:10:05 *L1SP* facepalms 04:10:52 . .. firms library src works tmp 04:11:35 -!- L1SP [~resu@97.72.154.166] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 04:12:30 spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cykisxcciqjrazmi] has joined #lisp 04:15:22 -!- MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 04:15:46 MeanWeen [~KAPITAL@cpe-098-026-091-210.nc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 04:18:03 -!- spradnyesh [~pradyus@nat/yahoo/x-cykisxcciqjrazmi] has left #lisp 04:18:56 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Quit: mrSpec] 04:20:44 -!- dto [~dto@pool-96-252-62-25.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 04:21:52 betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has joined #lisp 04:22:01 plage [~user@81-231-234-224-no56.tbcn.telia.com] has joined #lisp 04:22:19 Good morning everyone! 04:22:33 pjb: no dot files? 04:27:34 mishoo_ [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has joined #lisp 04:27:56 rtoym [~chatzilla@c-67-180-54-112.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 04:31:30 -!- _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 04:32:45 -!- leo2007 [~leo@222.79.194.57] has quit [Quit: rcirc on GNU Emacs 23.3.50.1] 04:35:18 Wellesly [~jake@h82.158.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 04:35:51 -!- Wellesly [~jake@h82.158.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has quit [Client Quit] 04:39:23 _root_ [~Scalable@li252-14.members.linode.com] has joined #lisp 04:40:08 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 04:43:45 -!- Hunden 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Leaving.] 06:38:27 cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has joined #lisp 06:40:44 HG` [~HG@p5DC04AB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 06:44:58 -!- replore_ [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 06:45:45 alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 06:47:45 -!- HG` [~HG@p5DC04AB4.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: HG`] 06:57:08 abcl 0.27 is going to be an interesting release. Fixed cl-unicode yesterday. Fixing a readtable issue (and thus NAMED-READTABLES/PARENSCRIPT) today. 06:57:40 homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 06:59:35 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 06:59:52 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-84-44-211-26.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:02:58 sdemarre [~serge@91.176.83.27] has joined #lisp 07:04:29 seangrove [~user@c-24-6-209-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:05:40 -!- pinterface [~pinterfac@173-20-55-85.client.mchsi.com] has left #lisp 07:10:53 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:12:06 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 07:12:31 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has joined #lisp 07:15:20 -!- fmu` is now known as fmu 07:15:27 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 07:17:41 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 07:20:35 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 07:21:54 hi 07:22:21 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 07:25:56 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 07:26:55 realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 07:28:37 -!- blumbri [~user@c-67-181-176-186.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 07:28:41 -!- joast [~rick@76.178.178.72] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 07:31:06 hello Posterdati 07:31:35 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 07:35:14 -!- pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has quit [Quit: leaving] 07:35:50 pchrist [~spirit@gentoo/developer/pchrist] has joined #lisp 07:44:23 th_ [4e5eebb2@gateway/web/freenode/ip.78.94.235.178] has joined #lisp 07:45:40 newssgg [~user@115.50.157.163] has joined 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[~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has joined #lisp 09:29:39 -!- homie` [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Quit: ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)] 09:30:56 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@212.25.69.18] has quit [Quit: This computer has gone to sleep] 09:33:37 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-137-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 09:34:42 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 09:35:43 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 09:35:59 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined #lisp 09:44:50 BrianRice` [~water@174-21-120-48.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:44:50 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-48.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:44:50 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:46:19 -!- Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 09:47:16 BrianRice` [~water@174-21-120-48.tukw.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 09:47:17 -!- BrianRice [~water@174-21-120-48.tukw.qwest.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:47:17 -!- BrianRice` is now known as BrianRice 09:48:17 Pepe_ [~ppjet@anderith.bouah.net] has joined #lisp 09:53:52 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 09:55:23 shaggy- [~shaggy-@76.73.16.26] has joined #lisp 09:56:11 hello. I noticed that most libraries put unit tests into a separate package, ie libname-test. but if you do that how can you test the functions that aren't exported from package? this doesn't do it obviously: (defpackage :libname-test (:use :common-lisp :libname)) 09:57:35 (asdf:oos 'asdf:test-op :libname) 09:58:19 (defpackage..........:export '("blah" "blah")) perhaps.... 09:59:01 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 09:59:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 09:59:01 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 09:59:19 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 09:59:29 shaggy-: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124154 09:59:44 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 09:59:51 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 09:59:51 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:03:13 -!- kwertii [~kwertii@ResNet-33-19.resnet.ucsb.edu] has quit [Quit: bye] 10:03:24 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Client Quit] 10:04:17 thanks to both 10:08:02 package::unexported-symbol works too 10:08:49 shaggy-: You can import unexported symbols via :import-from or :shadowing-import-from in defpackage. 10:09:01 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 10:09:01 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 10:09:01 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:09:13 shaggy-: Not exporting is more like "Please don't use this unless you must" rather than a bank vault. 10:09:25 Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has joined #lisp 10:09:33 I see, nice 10:09:38 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:09:40 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.142.186.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:10:43 Xach: do you have a list of dists which fail to compile on ABCL? (that way I don't have to try them all :-) 10:11:00 Xach: or is there a single "compile all dists" target? 10:11:40 anyway, some people reported issues using NAMED-READTABLES with ABCL. Those should be fixed now. 10:11:50 0.27 should be an interesting release. 10:12:17 Xach: are you in europe, or do you just not sleep? 10:13:20 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has joined #lisp 10:13:37 I am in America with European children. 10:13:38 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 10:13:38 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 10:13:38 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:14:35 ehu: There is a "compile everything" set of commands, but it's doomed to fail. Better to compile everything in separate instances of the system. Otherwise package issues get conflated with real issues. 10:14:59 -!- araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:13 ehu: it's fairly easy to get a list of all known systems from systems.txt, and that can be used to script a call to something like quickload-in-abcl.sh, I think. 10:15:14 -!- foocraft is now known as giaour 10:15:29 Does abcl have a batch-like mode, e.g. never enter the repl or debugger? 10:15:38 yes. 10:15:52 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 10:15:54 so, that should really work then, if it returns a failure back to the command line. 10:16:00 that's a good idea. 10:16:03 thanks! 10:16:11 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has joined #lisp 10:16:23 so quickload-in-abcl.sh could be something like: abcl --batch --load ~/quicklisp/setup.lisp --eval "(ql:quickload \"$1\")" 10:16:26 or similar 10:16:55 right. and then the caller could loop over all packages. 10:17:01 for f in $(awk '{print $2}' systems.txt);... 10:17:01 oh. 10:17:12 or you could do it in a parent abcl 10:17:23 ($2 might not be right, i'd have to read the file again) 10:17:27 I just updated the QL client from 201011 10:17:36 to the lates. 10:17:38 latest. 10:17:44 it's much slower to load now 10:17:48 is that correct? 10:18:02 (at the very least twice as slow) 10:19:16 Maybe because it had to be recompiled? 10:19:27 Is it slower every time? 10:19:32 yes. 10:19:36 every time. 10:20:03 I don't know why that might be the case, would love to know more. 10:20:18 ok. I'll see if I can profile that. 10:20:28 is there a way to get the old client on my system again? 10:20:42 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:21:24 BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has joined #lisp 10:22:03 -!- BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.206] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 10:22:47 araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has joined #lisp 10:22:47 -!- araujo [~araujo@190.73.44.29] has quit [Changing host] 10:22:47 araujo [~araujo@gentoo/developer/araujo] has joined #lisp 10:22:56 Hmm, not an easy one. They're available under something like http://beta.quicklisp.org/quickstart/quicklisp-.tgz or something. I'll have to research. 10:23:11 You have to know the version numbers, it's not discoverable for old versions. 10:23:19 (unless you're me) 10:24:16 :-) well, it was the 2010 (probably latest) version. If you don't want to keep public records of those, that's fine, but could you send me that version so I can test? 10:24:34 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-137-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 10:24:56 Oh, I want to make it easy to go back to old versions, this is definitely a to-fix misfeature. 10:25:05 I'll have to let you know in a little while. 10:25:35 sure. on my part there's no real hurry. I mean, with those scripts I don't need to babysit ABCL. 10:25:51 but in interactive mode, it's a bit annoying. 10:27:01 -!- m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has quit [Quit: m0wfo] 10:27:02 Xach: use serial numbers as versions, then everyone will know them. 10:27:24 "LOAD-SYSTEM-DEFINITION-ERROR"; where do I find the details? 10:27:46 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-244-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Quit: off] 10:28:01 it's an ASDF error 10:29:05 m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has joined #lisp 10:29:05 -!- theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.142.186.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:29:43 -!- giaour is now known as foocraft 10:30:14 ASau [~user@95-26-244-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 10:30:52 it's too bad Java doesn't have anything which remotely looks like what cl+ssl provides for other implementations. 10:31:08 Java has secure sockets built in, but that's not enough... 10:31:29 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 10:32:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:34:08 theBlackDragon [~dragon@213.219.142.186.adsl.dyn.edpnet.net] has joined #lisp 10:35:40 ehu: fix the CFFI port and you shall have it too 10:40:54 m0wfo_ [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has joined #lisp 10:40:56 -!- m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:41:00 -!- m0wfo_ is now known as m0wfo 10:46:51 genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has joined #lisp 10:49:12 Guest_ [~textual@ip98-167-187-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has joined #lisp 10:50:32 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 10:52:42 chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:53:54 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Client Quit] 10:54:01 eulyix [~eulyix@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has joined #lisp 10:54:19 -!- eulyix [~eulyix@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:54:27 ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has joined #lisp 10:55:17 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 10:56:29 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 10:57:07 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 10:57:22 H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC93D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 11:00:10 -!- m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has quit [Quit: m0wfo] 11:00:40 fe[nl]ix: what's broken about CFFI? 11:00:41 -!- H4ns` [~user@p4FFC8295.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:00:44 fe[nl]ix: callbacks? 11:01:13 mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has joined #lisp 11:01:15 fe[nl]ix: callbacks is something easyE has worked on (successfully, I believe) 11:01:49 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 11:02:08 IIRC, not all tests were passing 11:02:23 but I don't remember which ones 11:03:22 is there a function in standard lib that combines a list of strings into a single string? 11:03:37 apply + concatenate. 11:03:48 good idea 11:03:48 or, format. 11:04:00 or reduce + concatenate or with-output-to-string + dolist + write 11:05:22 =) 11:06:44 you guys will obviously be totally biased, but is common lisp still the best lisp? 11:06:51 mstevens: yes. 11:07:11 mstevens: Meaningless question. 11:07:41 you see, the problem of all the more recent "lisps", is that they're technically inferior, since they don't include at least all the features of Common Lisp. 11:08:07 The reason otherwise why it's meaningless, is that since it's a meta-programming language, you can always improve upon Common Lisp, when you write your own maccros. 11:08:08 Such as printing in roman numerals. 11:08:09 Zhivago: to make it more specific, I want to code web stuff, lisp based languages seem to have much potential, is CL best? Clojure seems to have some nice features. 11:08:19 mstevens: Meaningless question. 11:08:38 mstevens: Try asking questions without using a word like "best". 11:08:58 mstevens: It doesn't mean anything unless you know what you're measuring for. 11:08:59 CL is best because you can adapt it to your needs. 11:09:06 Much like visual basic. 11:09:49 Zhivago: if you find it's easier to do in Visual Basic, #visual-basic is that way. 11:09:53 mstevens: Think about what is important to you and ask specifically about that. 11:10:22 pjb: Just pointing out that you were indulging in meaningless blather. 11:10:27 -!- BlankVer1e [~pankajm@202.3.77.204] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:10:36 "Butter is best because it's ... edible." 11:10:47 Zhivago: mmm delicious butter 11:10:50 is it true that when exception is thrown you can recover from it and continue with execution? 11:10:55 Zhivago: no. If you were smart, you'd understand that there are practical aspect that matter, such as "ease" of meta programming. 11:11:02 Zhivago: have a look at the topic. 11:11:14 pjb: So, why didn't you talk about that? :) 11:11:19 shaggy-: yes, you can restart in condition handler 11:11:51 p_l|backup no I meant what if I get unexpected exception and am thrown to repl, can I still restart with execution somehow? or does it depend on exception 11:12:16 am i the only one that thinks Zhivago is a non-obvious troll? 11:12:48 madnificent: I thought I was erring dangerously close to trolling, let alone Zhivago 11:12:51 mstevens: what do you want to learn? 11:13:14 shaggy-: you should study the common lisp condition systems. 11:13:17 mstevens: no, not at all, you asked a sensible question. my comment on Zhivago is long-term not short-term :) 11:13:25 i am studying it 11:13:27 shaggy-: you can always restart execution 11:13:30 shaggy-: it be teh sexy 11:13:34 madnificent: And what is a "non-obvious troll"? 11:13:35 i see 11:13:44 madnificent: well I have a toy shorterm goal, and a daydream longterm goal. And obviously various tastes in code style, all of which are factors. 11:13:50 well I don't know how to restart here 11:13:59 shaggy-: then why are you talking about "unexpected exception"? 11:14:06 mstevens: so, your short-term goal is web programming? and your long-term goal is? 11:14:29 madnificent: the toy shorterm goal is specifically "I wanna code a blog". 11:14:32 (loop for i in '(2 1 0 1 2) collect (/ 1 i)) <- division by zero exception is thrown in the middle of the loop. how can I resume execution and get the collected values? 11:15:01 mstevens: Then is your first problem to "get a web server"? 11:15:01 madnificent: the overambitious longterm goal is that reading about lisp makes me think it would be a good tool to make a DSL for making web apps 11:15:03 (loop for i in '(2 1 0 1 2) collect (ignore-errors (/ 1 i))) 11:15:05 mstevens: ok, we can do that (any language can quite easily), but you probably won't touch on the nice features of common lisp 11:15:07 this example is contrived, but say you accidentally had code that divided by zero. can you recover? 11:15:19 mstevens: the latter one will be harder in other languages 11:15:52 shaggy-: your implementation could offer "restarts" which allow substituting a result. 11:15:56 madnificent: I quite like clojure's immutability, for example, and access to java libraries, but I don't like the JVM dependency 11:15:59 shaggy-: if you don't have write access to that source code, no, because conditions are underspecified in CL. 11:16:14 mstevens: your short term goal is probably reached easily in languages with specific web frameworks. lisp can do it, but a ruby on rails tutorial will be faster. i'm personally convinced that lisp is ultimately much better, if it has some people that write the dsl's 11:16:16 madnificent: on the other hand, research indicates the CL spec doesn't cover many areas I'm interested in 11:16:33 shaggy- most implementations give you the ability to replace the (/ 1 0) form with a new value 11:16:44 madnificent: I already have a blog for the practical purpose of blogging, this is a toy educational goal. 11:16:45 mstevens: which areas? 11:17:04 mstevens: but you can wrap the CL primnitives you're interested in in a handler-case that will signal known condition, with known restarts. 11:17:24 ehu: I'm getting most of this from PCL, but file I/O seems fuzzy, and sockets nonexistent. 11:17:25 pjb: that was for shaggy- ? 11:17:35 right. sorry. 11:17:50 mstevens: usocket is a cross implementation sockets library which works on most implementations 11:18:07 ehu: ANd I don't like the general state of CL libraries, although I have the feelign this may have improved since last time I looked. 11:18:09 <_8david> ehu: I'm surprised to hear that SSL support could be worse than cl+ssl. What's missing in Java? 11:18:22 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:18:24 mstevens: you can write your own library. It's a free internet. 11:18:43 pjb: it saves precious precious time if someone has done it for you, though 11:19:07 time is money. If you have $100M, you can hire lisp programmers to write nice libraries, just like Sun did. 11:19:08 -!- Guest_ [~textual@ip98-167-187-215.ph.ph.cox.net] has quit [Quit: Textual IRC Client: http://www.textualapp.com/] 11:19:11 -!- wolfpython [~wolf@61.160.83.66] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:19:14 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 11:19:14 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 11:19:14 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 11:19:21 _8david: I think the problem is to provide a cl+ssl replacement using Java primitives. 11:19:39 -!- madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:20:28 madnificent [~madnifice@83.101.62.132] has joined #lisp 11:20:40 mstevens don't know when you've checked but it has likely improved. see quicklisp for managing third party libraries 11:21:43 mstevens: I'm not aware of file I/O problems. 11:21:57 kennyd: From my memory, you fiddle with asdf-install and then it doesn't work 11:22:09 mstevens: try quicklisp 11:22:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 11:22:24 using asdf-install is outdated 11:23:53 quicklisp is pretty awesome. (ql:system-apropos "ppcre") (ql:quickload "cl-ppcre"). done 11:24:29 -!- alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has quit [Quit: Computer has gone to sleep.] 11:24:54 I never had any problem with asdf-install (apart the occasionnal unavailable server). 11:25:18 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1F14.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 11:25:39 pjb: the only problem I had with it is that I want to run my Common Lisp implementation on Windows quite regularly (where it didn't work for me) 11:26:20 neo4reo [~neo4reo@79.142.224.135.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:26:50 alama [~jessealam@86.93.35.187] has joined #lisp 11:27:41 -!- tsanhwa [~user@61.129.42.97] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:28:13 xan_ [~xan@114-42-11-237.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 11:29:16 benny [~benny@i577A1F14.versanet.de] has joined #lisp 11:29:52 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 11:31:33 -!- Evanescence [~chris@122.237.38.58] has quit [Quit: WeeChat 0.3.4] 11:31:34 wolfpython [~wolf@61.160.83.66] has joined #lisp 11:32:21 pjb: but the thing I like most about quicklisp is its ability to keep stats. helps focus abcl development toward 'fixing what users want most' 11:32:22 quicklisp is awesome 11:33:41 indeed 11:33:41 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-174-46.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 11:34:24 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:34:38 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 11:35:55 ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 11:38:53 *mstevens* experiments with quicklisp 11:39:09 -!- jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has quit [Quit: Terminated with extreme prejudice - dircproxy 1.0.5] 11:39:22 woo! I broke it already 11:42:47 jamief [~user@harrison.doc.gold.ac.uk] has joined #lisp 11:43:07 mstevens: great! 11:43:19 mstevens: what's the problem? 11:43:47 failed at (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") 11:43:50 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 250 seconds] 11:43:50 illegal sharp macro character: #\Newline 11:44:06 (and more) 11:44:24 oh. 11:44:31 that's not quicklisp being broken, I think. 11:44:40 that's the software you're loading. 11:44:45 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 11:45:04 when that's broken, all QL can do is report it to you 11:45:20 hmm 11:45:24 *mstevens* pokes paste.lisp.org 11:45:26 I pasted 11:45:29 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 11:46:23 still no luck, fecking thing 11:47:13 ehu: In some ways I agree, but it's prominent enough in the QL docs I'd expect it to work 11:47:42 do I use defpackage or make-package? 11:48:33 how would you go about testing a function that prints to stdout? 11:48:40 in a unit test 11:49:11 mstevens: you created 3 pastes, exactly the same? 11:49:35 what do you expect '("quicklisp-slime-helper")' to do? 11:49:54 how about '(ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper")'? 11:50:19 ehu: every time I created a paste, I got a blank screen, so I assumed it did not work 11:50:37 shaggy-: bind an alternative stream to *standard-output* ? 11:50:40 ehu: I wish to install and configure SLIME, as per the documentation: To install and configure SLIME, use: 11:50:43 (ql:quickload "quicklisp-slime-helper") 11:50:46 Then follow the directions it displays. quicklisp-slime-helper will create a file you can load in Emacs that configures the right load-path for loading Quicklisp's installation of SLIME. 11:50:51 anvandare: defpackage 11:51:05 figured, it has more options :> 11:51:43 gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-178.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has joined #lisp 11:55:04 -!- neo4reo [~neo4reo@79.142.224.135.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 11:55:32 BlankVerse [~pankajm@202.3.77.219] has joined #lisp 11:56:21 neo4reo [~neo4reo@79.142.224.135.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has joined #lisp 11:56:43 mstevens: hmm. which OS are you using? 11:56:48 debian 11:56:52 and the debian sbcl 11:57:14 ah. that's probably too ol/d. 11:57:16 old 11:57:29 1.0.40 too old? 11:58:52 you'd expect that to work, yes. 12:01:47 I also would expect it to work. 12:01:56 That #\Newline thing is highly suspicious 12:02:13 It looks like you wrote # on the end of a line. 12:04:12 *mstevens* checks scrollbackj 12:04:15 *mstevens* looks guilty 12:05:28 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 12:05:31 -!- zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 12:05:31 Was that it? 12:05:34 yes 12:07:39 -!- Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:09:54 -!- attila_lendvai [~attila_le@unaffiliated/attila-lendvai/x-3126965] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 12:13:02 xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.38] has joined #lisp 12:15:18 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 12:21:57 Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 12:22:56 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 12:25:58 -!- ngz [~user@161.227.69.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 12:30:24 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 12:31:08 bgs100 [~ian@unaffiliated/bgs100] has joined #lisp 12:36:50 -!- Athas [~athas@130.225.165.40] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:40:41 -!- rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has quit [Quit: rfg] 12:48:36 -!- Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 12:49:35 dlila [~dlila@CPE0014d1c9243c-CM001bd71cede2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com] has joined #lisp 12:59:08 is it possible to create a single defmethod that accepts both a string and a path? 12:59:15 pathname 13:01:16 gffa [~gffa@unaffiliated/gffa] has joined #lisp 13:01:27 you mean overload it? 13:02:30 i mean without having to create two defmethods, one for string another for pathname. string should be "upgraded" to pathname 13:02:49 in CLOS, yes 13:02:55 shaggy: no, but you can move the meat of the code to one of them of course 13:04:22 yeah i'll do it like that 13:04:33 anvandare you misunderstood me I guess? 13:04:56 errrmm, not sure 13:05:22 you're talking about something like (defun foo (x) (if (not (pathnamep foo)) (make-pathname :directory foo ... ? 13:05:39 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-214.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 13:06:16 (defun foo (x) (if (stringp x) (setf x (pathname x)) 13:06:46 of I guess nicer (defun foo (x) (if (stringp x) (foo (pathname x)) 13:07:16 actually I might do it like that over defgeneric in this particular case. =) 13:07:50 shaggy-: (defun foo (x) (let ((x (pathname x))) ...)) 13:09:13 probably the clearest one 13:11:28 but what if x is already a pathname? :P 13:11:40 (pathname (pathname x)) == (pathname x) 13:12:29 magic! 13:12:38 *anvandare* only ever used make-pathname 13:15:51 Are there any multithreading parallel-map libraries for common lisp? I'm thinking of writing some (as an excercise) but wouldn't want to duplicate the effort. 13:16:39 antoszka: perhaps. Sciener CL is specialized in parallel proocessing. It has probably a library of multithreading parallel routines. 13:17:01 http://www.scieneer.com/scl/ 13:17:55 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 13:17:58 aSean [aSean@114-37-241-175.dynamic.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 13:19:06 pjb: At first sight there doesn't seem to be any freely available code regarding the subject. 13:20:37 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 13:22:46 antoszka: multithreading makes me think of cl-muproc 13:22:59 antoszka: but I'm not sure it does map-reduce 13:23:08 Thanks, I'll look. 13:23:44 what is that asdf's function again that returns the path of the loaded system 13:24:35 path to the .asd file I mean 13:24:55 -!- kpreid [~kpreid@adsl-75-36-179-251.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Quit: Quitting] 13:26:26 nm found it, asdf:system-source-directory 13:29:36 Amadiro: Sciener CL is a commercial product. 13:30:38 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has joined #lisp 13:32:14 -!- Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 13:33:03 -!- EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 13:33:53 EyesIsMine [~eyes@unaffiliated/eyesismine] has joined #lisp 13:35:34 -!- neo4reo [~neo4reo@79.142.224.135.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has quit [Read error: No route to host] 13:36:27 neo4reo [~neo4reo@79.142.224.135.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has joined #lisp 13:37:46 /quit 13:37:47 -!- mstevens [~mstevens@fsf/member/pdpc.active.mstevens] has quit [Quit: leaving] 13:38:23 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:38:51 pjb: Yeah, but they have a freeware software/library section, so just checked if there's any code they shared regarding parallelism. 13:40:46 http://marijnhaverbeke.nl/pcall/  but then, there's that. 13:41:46 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:42:17 -!- neo4reo [~neo4reo@79.142.224.135.nat.router1.bolignet.dk] has quit [Quit: neo4reo] 13:42:40 -!- Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has quit [Max SendQ exceeded] 13:43:30 Modius [~Modius@cpe-70-123-140-183.austin.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 13:48:40 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has joined #lisp 13:48:50 markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has joined #lisp 13:49:57 is ccl right when wining that I'm passing an infinite list to subseq? sbcl and clisp don't seem to mind. the list didn't rewind back with the elements I passed 13:50:03 whining* 13:50:45 pnq [~nick@172.129.156.57] has joined #lisp 13:50:50 even if I did don't see why it should complain 13:56:11 -!- markskilbeck [~mark@unaffiliated/markskilbeck] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 13:56:12 the type restrictions for subseq in the standard say "a proper sequence" 14:01:30 okay. still surprised it would bother iterating through entire list just to confirm it 14:03:28 well, me too. But there you go 14:07:11 -!- jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:07:21 gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has joined #lisp 14:07:35 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:10:07 -!- pnq [~nick@172.129.156.57] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 14:10:17 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has joined #lisp 14:15:36 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 14:19:30 -!- xan_ [~xan@114-42-11-237.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 14:25:09 spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-137-60.bredband.comhem.se] has joined #lisp 14:28:15 bugQ [~bug@c-67-186-254-86.hsd1.ut.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 14:31:35 -!- jewel [~jewel@196-215-117-34.dynamic.isadsl.co.za] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:34:24 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 14:36:10 m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has joined #lisp 14:37:35 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:39:02 pnq [~nick@ACA2293D.ipt.aol.com] has joined #lisp 14:44:41 -!- sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:45:27 urandom__ [~user@p548A4D4B.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:45:45 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has joined #lisp 14:46:11 -!- lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:46:34 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 14:46:37 -!- ZabaQ [~john.conn@135.114-84-212.staticip.namesco.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 14:48:30 nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has joined #lisp 14:50:41 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has quit [Client Quit] 14:51:08 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has joined #lisp 14:54:19 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has quit [Client Quit] 14:54:40 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has joined #lisp 14:54:47 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 14:55:15 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 14:58:35 jiacobucci [~jiacobucc@gw-asdl.ae.gatech.edu] has joined #lisp 14:59:27 Yuuhi [benni@p5483CCEA.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 14:59:37 -!- hussaibi [~hussaibi@wirewall.cs.toronto.edu] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 15:01:09 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has joined #lisp 15:03:20 m0wfo_ [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has joined #lisp 15:03:20 -!- m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:03:20 -!- m0wfo_ is now known as m0wfo 15:09:21 leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.116] has joined #lisp 15:18:34 antoszka: I have a half-assed Cilk port 15:19:58 antoszka: but I'm afraid to release it, because I'll be ridiculed for its design.. It does not use (lambda's) to capture frames, instead it manually flattens code into a huge tagbody, replacing all (let) forms with arefs.. And each new farme has its own array with all vars 15:20:50 *maxm* went with lambdas first, but performance was 10x that of C version, due to consing a lambda() on each frame.. My version is ugly and un-lispy but gets around 60% of speed of C version 15:21:31 and of course you can't use flet/labels inside parallel code, as I did not wrote a flattener for them 15:24:11 -!- genieliu [~genieliu@59.78.62.120] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:24:54 -!- __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:26 -!- m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:25:27 m0wfo_ [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has joined #lisp 15:27:33 maxm: on SBCL, you have gcc-style closures when you declare the functions dynamic-extent. If I were to re-implement task stealing, I'd probably try to exploit that first. 15:27:56 hmm 15:28:23 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 15:28:49 what does it mean gcc style closures? 15:28:51 MarderIII [~marderii@enneman.demon.nl] has joined #lisp 15:29:00 is there a way to have one defmethod for all numerical types? 15:29:01 the closure is stack-allocated, with pointers to the relevant stack frame(s), and variables are accessed directly on the stack. 15:29:20 shaggy-: NUMBER is a class. 15:29:24 ok, what if you pass address of that to another thread? 15:29:36 and it calls into the closure, will it move it to the heap? 15:29:55 maxm: no. 15:29:58 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 15:30:01 won't work then 15:30:01 ah ok great 15:31:34 thats the essense of cilk algo, each thread does deep first descend (executing its own (spawn) statetements first, leaving closures behind.. An idle threads, can steal these left behind frames from the other end 15:31:39 maxm: not for general futures, but for cilk, yes, it will. 15:32:36 oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has joined #lisp 15:32:39 wait, how to specify both a type and default optional argument in defmethod? (defmethod range ((x number) (y number) &optional (step number)) <- it interpreters number as default value not a type 15:32:44 shaggy-: you can't. 15:33:14 pkhuong: ok, how will it work? how can a foreign thread call into closure that sits on this thread's stack? what happens when this thread returns, and notices the steal? It can't unwind back, because that would destroy the stack frame that thief thread is now executing 15:33:17 maxm: the function that SPAWNed tasklets blocks on them before returning. 15:33:23 __main__ [~main@adsl-99-173-15-158.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net] has joined #lisp 15:34:03 maxm: so that scenario never happens. 15:35:20 *maxm* has trouble visualizing that.. 15:37:19 when thread spawns, it starts executing its own child immediately, leaving closure behind... when it returns, if closure was stolen, its free to do other work. You saying don't unwind at this point, but recursively do (get-other-work) stuff.. 15:37:20 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:37:37 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has joined #lisp 15:37:54 -!- aSean [aSean@114-37-241-175.dynamic.hinet.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 15:38:16 maxm: it's free to do other work, but that work includes getting the stolen task's value. 15:38:17 but when does it unwind, it seems stack would fill in pretty quick with stolen frames 15:38:49 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has quit [Client Quit] 15:38:59 sanjoyd [~sanjoyd@unaffiliated/sanjoyd] has joined #lisp 15:39:00 -!- MarderIII [~marderii@enneman.demon.nl] has quit [Quit: [IRSSI] When I die, I'm leaving my body to Science Fiction.] 15:39:10 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has joined #lisp 15:41:56 *maxm* will have to do a prototype of this thing again.. First check if calling into dynamic-extent closure from another thread is indeed possible. 15:42:21 Depends on if it's still there, I presume. 15:42:49 and try to find my original lambda based code.. It still used the code-walking flattener, because we need to be able to (go) to the arbitrary point inside the body, where the (spawn) statement is 15:43:34 that is the thief thread needs to be able to resume immeditely after (spawn) statement, so in the beginning of slow clone lambda, there is a dispatcher that does (go) into after every (spawn) statement 15:43:45 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has quit [Client Quit] 15:44:03 fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has joined #lisp 15:45:22 Here is my current code btw: http://paste.lisp.org/display/124160 15:47:29 Bike [~Glossina@71-38-157-134.ptld.qwest.net] has joined #lisp 15:49:09 it actually pretty robust, /me run some simulation for days using this code 15:49:57 -!- fortitudeZDY [~fortitude@123.103.66.136] has quit [Quit: leaving] 15:53:40 abeaumont [~abeaumont@ABordeaux-157-1-177-215.w109-215.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 15:54:21 -!- slash_ [~unknown@pD9FD822C.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving.] 15:54:31 maxm: do you see how the sync ensures that both spawned tasks are fully executed before the function returns? 15:55:30 the fact that fast clone went past (pop-frame-check) means no one stolen our parent frame 15:56:14 so in fast clone (sync) is a no-op, because the fast clone itself executed all of its children, and returned from them, so the mere fact its now executing the parent, means every (spawn) returned 15:57:42 you have to visualise how cilk works.. 99% of time is spent in fast clones. Fast clone executes its own (spawns). it checks if some thief resumed its closure after the (spawn) by doing (pop-frame-check), which if parent was stolen, does non-local exit and the entire thread becomes free 15:58:35 -!- m0wfo_ [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has quit [Quit: m0wfo_] 15:59:15 -!- cess11 [~cess11@miffe.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 15:59:16 Its kind of hard to get your head around it, but the whole concept is that _parents_ get stolen and executed in parallel, while children continue to execute on the same thread 16:00:51 toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 16:03:43 maxm: right, you steal from the bottom. But the point remains that sync ensures that all the tasks have been completed before resuming the computation, and thus before returning. 16:04:10 it does it in the slow clone, there is a call to (sync-check)... 16:05:10 vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 16:05:41 -!- vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has quit [Client Quit] 16:05:57 replore [~replore@ntkngw133234.kngw.nt.ftth.ppp.infoweb.ne.jp] has joined #lisp 16:06:26 vert2 [~vert2@newshell1.bshellz.net] has joined #lisp 16:07:13 -!- dabd [~dabd@72.151.189.46.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Quit: Ex-Chat] 16:08:20 jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has joined #lisp 16:08:26 fast clone does not need to check, because it knows that all task had been completed.. The fact that fast close gets to the (sync) statement at all, means no one stolen from it, so all tasks it spawned were completed by its own thread and returned normally. 16:08:39 s/fast close/fast clone/ 16:08:59 read up on cilk algorithm, its pretty much 1-on-1 translation of C code 16:09:37 I have, plenty of times. 16:11:56 ok then I don't quite get it why you are saying "point remains that sync ensures that all tasks have been completed".. Each cilk function has two copies fast clone and slow clone. Fast clone recursively executes its own spawns, each time it returns, and finds itself not stolen, means all spawned sub-tasks had been finished (ie as if there was only 1 CPU).. 16:13:15 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-157-32.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 16:14:43 without the interesting extension, cilk is mostly fork/join parallelism. The sync is a join point. Whenever the spawn-ful function returns with a value, a sync has been executed, and all the spawned tasks have been fully executed. 16:15:35 -!- xyxu [~xyxu@222.68.164.38] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 16:16:49 -!- spearalot [~spearalot@c83-248-137-60.bredband.comhem.se] has quit [Quit: Get MacIrssi - http://www.sysctl.co.uk/projects/macirssi/] 16:17:22 Davidbrcz [~david@ANantes-151-1-22-208.w83-195.abo.wanadoo.fr] has joined #lisp 16:17:31 -!- juniorroy [~juniorroy@212.36.228.103] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 16:19:51 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 16:19:58 ok then I don't understand your original comment, "maxm: do you see how the sync ensures that both spawned tasks are fully executed before the function returns?" 16:20:32 It's exactly what I just said. 16:20:37 if you mean where is the (sync) before function return, the flattener automatically adds it.. If you note in my paste in the slow clone there is (sync-check) just before returning 16:20:57 no. I mean that since there's a sync, it's safe to stack-allocate. 16:21:42 ie in slow clone there is two (sync-check) calls, one is the translation of original (sync) before adding two numbers, and one just before (return-from), which is added automatically to assure that all children are done 16:22:42 so, there's a check that the children computations have all been completed before returning. Thus, these children computations can depend on stack-allocated values. 16:24:00 yes but remember that slow clone, is executing in a different thread (it was stolen by a thread looking for work). So the children of a slow task, are actually executing in their original thread 16:24:30 yes? 16:26:03 if I want to make function accessible from a macro should I use (eval-when (:execute :load-toplevel :compile-toplevel) around the functions definition? (did I get the eval-when paramters right?) 16:26:33 m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has joined #lisp 16:26:38 shaggy-: yup. Or put it in another file. 16:26:47 thanks 16:27:58 maxm: when fib returns, any children, fast or slow, will be done. 16:28:58 pkhuong: ok thats true.. 16:29:27 but sometimes thread has to abandon its computations and become free 16:29:31 so children can depend on values that have been stack-allocated in fib. 16:29:39 maxm: when it returns! 16:33:05 thread A has stack F1 F2 F3... F1 gets stolen by therad B, F2 gets stolen by thread C, F3 returns in original thread A.. At this point if F1 and F2 are stack allocated, thread A can not go back to its main loop, because that will destroye F1 and F2, which are still executing 16:33:47 it can call its (look-for-work) recursively, but that would quickly fill in stack with frames, and some kind of garbage collection would be needed for them 16:33:59 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 16:34:22 if F1 and F2 are heap allocated (lambda) then its fine 16:34:25 no, it wouldn't: task stealing is infrequent when you steal from the bottom. 16:34:26 capivara [~capivara@186.215.41.237] has joined #lisp 16:34:53 -!- nicdev [~nicdev@209-6-50-99.c3-0.smr-ubr1.sbo-smr.ma.cable.rcn.com] has quit [Quit: nicdev] 16:35:05 well but eventually stack would fill up, kind of uncomfortable saying that without testing 16:35:32 (fib 35) does maybe 8 steals in like 2 seconds 16:35:40 what about 10 hour simulation? 16:35:58 the issue is recursive steals, not stealing itself. 16:37:42 well recursive steals are no problem in my current code, as when parent are stolen, I just (throw :go-back-to-main-loop) 16:37:59 -!- X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:38:32 -!- m0wfo [~m0wfo@89.38.202.39] has quit [Quit: m0wfo] 16:38:34 the original non-cilk calling into cilk call, simply does (sync) to wait for the result 16:39:11 -!- X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 16:39:21 X-Scale [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 16:39:34 -!- X-Scale is now known as Guest67584 16:40:57 here's why recursive stealing isn't an issue: if F2 has called F3, it's because it depends on its value. So, whatever is after the sync hasn't been executed yet when F3 returns. So, the original thread can execute the post-sync code. 16:41:55 ("because F2 depends on F3's value) 16:42:08 you missing the critical point, which is when F2 calls F3 with spawn, sync does not immediately follows.. 16:42:35 gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-104.vologda.ru] has joined #lisp 16:42:43 if every (spawn) is followed by (sync), then there is no parallelism at all 16:42:45 no, indeed, it doesn't. It's still true that the original thread can take care of the post-sync code. 16:43:04 F2 calls F3, but it can not access its value until it calls sync 16:43:32 but it can execute the code between (spawn) and (sync).. 16:44:14 right. It, or any other worker. 16:44:15 -!- hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-214.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving...] 16:44:25 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 16:46:34 well when other worker does it, thats where the stack allocation is a problem. At the point when other worker starts executing code after the (spawn) both C cilk, and my current implementation clone the frame from stack to heap 16:47:09 so original thread is free to return to its top-level and do other stuff... 16:48:00 -!- benny [~benny@i577A1F14.versanet.de] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 16:48:34 X-Scale` [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has joined #lisp 16:49:45 -!- oudeis [~oudeis@2.54.254.4] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 16:49:57 well anyway I gotta go 16:50:00 that's because you're both working very hard to make sure the post-sync code can happen in another thread than the original one. 16:50:45 -!- Guest67584 [email@sgi-ultra64.broker.freenet6.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 255 seconds] 16:55:50 hargettp [~hargettp@pool-71-174-137-214.bstnma.east.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 17:05:02 -!- Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 17:05:14 Kryztof [~user@csrhodes.plus.com] has joined 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19:26:09 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 19:29:33 Xach: aroundp? 19:30:43 Xach: we're seeing a problem with parenscript (on ABCL); which implementation(s) do you require a dist to compile on before inclusion? 19:31:13 Xach: at least on ABCL, Parenscript generates non-conforming macro expansions: (DEFPARAMETER X) 19:31:22 ehu: sbcl 19:32:36 hmm. does sbcl accept (DEFPARAMETER X)? 19:32:39 nope. 19:32:48 Dunno 19:32:54 then the expansion is probably an ABCL issue. 19:36:26 toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 19:36:27 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 19:37:17 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:37:46 -!- wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:37:46 -!- homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-1.netcologne.de] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 19:39:03 -!- gko [gko@220-135-201-90.HINET-IP.hinet.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 19:44:58 hmm. I consider what I see a conformance bug (defmacro var (name &optional value docstring) `(defparameter ,name ,@(when value (list value)))) 19:45:04 there are cases where this breaks. 19:49:22 I wonder why this doesn't break on SBCL though. 19:54:06 lundis [~lundis@dyn56-31.yok.fi] has joined #lisp 19:56:11 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 19:58:23 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 19:58:42 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 19:58:48 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 19:59:05 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 20:00:15 decided to e-mail parenscript. 20:01:26 -!- jleija [~jleija@50.8.10.126] has quit [Quit: leaving] 20:07:17 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has joined #lisp 20:11:50 poindont` [~user@122.176.199.199] has joined #lisp 20:13:32 cadd [proxy@148.Red-79-148-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has joined #lisp 20:14:23 -!- poindontcare [~user@122.176.246.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 20:15:48 Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:16:45 -!- Cowmoo [~Cowmoo@c-71-192-163-98.hsd1.nh.comcast.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 20:18:22 pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has joined #lisp 20:20:04 zomgbie [~jesus@h081217131002.dyn.cm.kabsi.at] has joined #lisp 20:21:08 when I modify a variable with setf inside a dolist the changes persist outside only when I modify an existing element; if I add anything via cons or push the changes disappear. This is due to the way dolist binds the loop variable, right? 20:23:23 cadd: it does have to do with changing a binding vs. mutating a value 20:27:05 can you explain? 20:28:05 homie [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:28:09 sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 20:30:45 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:31:19 sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has joined #lisp 20:31:53 -!- sykopomp [~sykopomp@crlspr-24.233.190.221.myacc.net] has quit [Changing host] 20:31:53 sykopomp [~sykopomp@unaffiliated/sykopomp] has joined #lisp 20:32:40 cadd: some kinds of values, like conses, structures, arrays, etc, are like containers and when you change what they contain, that change is reflected when you look at the exact identical value elsewhere. but an association between a name and its value (a binding) does not affect the contents of some value. 20:33:31 for example, (setf (first list) 42) will change the car of the cons bound to the variable LIST. 20:33:53 but (setf list (cons 42 list)) will make the variable LIST refer to a newly created value. 20:34:27 it changes the binding between LIST and its value. 20:35:49 it's unspecified whether DOLIST creates a new binding or changes an existing one, and that's sometimes a source of trouble. 20:36:18 I see 20:36:33 -!- chturne [~chturne@host86-169-134-37.range86-169.btcentralplus.com] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 20:36:39 so, wait, which one persists and which one doesn't? 20:37:19 anvandare: I do this: (dolist (item list) (blah) 20:37:20 let me rephrase 20:37:23 i take it it's the second one because the symbol 'list' as changed by the setf is a shadowed one? 20:37:26 oudeis [~oudeis@109.66.212.35] has joined #lisp 20:37:52 it's unspecified whether dolist establishes one new binding at the beginning and changes it each time, or establishes a new binding per iteration 20:38:35 anvandare: "persist" is not a term i'd use. changes to a binding are visible in the scope of that binding. changes to a value are visible to anyone who can refer to the value. 20:39:21 inside the loop I change an element of the list with (setf (getf item :key) value). If (getf item :key) exists, the change persists inside list; if it's new the change does not affect list. 20:39:23 hmm, i see 20:40:15 cadd: that's an interesting example. what you're seeing is to be expected. 20:41:03 I think it's because the newly added item is pointed to only by the variable inside the loop? 20:41:29 I don't know if I explained myself clearly there... 20:42:24 -!- poindont` [~user@122.176.199.199] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:42:53 yes, pretty much. 20:44:00 Is it different if I add conses to the end instead of to the beginning? 20:45:20 yes, with one exception 20:45:27 what if the list is NIL? 20:45:35 Then there is no cons to which you can add. 20:46:17 ok. Good point. Thanks Xach, you've been very helpful :) 20:48:44 heh finally hit commonqt performance problem while testing my horizontal scaling code by jerking mouse as fast as possible 20:49:15 maxm: time to add a disclaimer 20:49:25 "Mouse jerking may cause performance problems" 20:49:38 so don't do it 20:49:47 apparently damn thing calls (cffi:foreign-string-to-lisp) on every method call.. Which is weird, since it uses sophisticated tagged numbering scheme for methods/types etc, where they are represented by numbers, with bitfields for object, type, method etc 20:49:52 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 20:50:26 imho I can just add memoization to these (qt::qobject-name), (qt::qclass-name) etc, since these return static strings from Smoke metaobject 20:50:46 wbooze [~levgue@xdsl-78-35-167-1.netcologne.de] has joined #lisp 20:50:51 98% of time is spent in cffi::foreign-string-to-lisp, so should be huge speedup 20:51:06 bye... 20:51:08 -!- cadd [proxy@148.Red-79-148-241.staticIP.rima-tde.net] has left #lisp 20:52:50 on the other hand this is compiled with (debug 3) (speed 0) so maybe I should not bother 20:54:26 maxm: i'd try other settings first, if I were you 20:54:47 -!- sdemarre [~serge@91.176.83.27] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 20:55:53 -!- dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Quit: dnolen] 20:56:04 yea I'll do it.. It seem this is isolated problem. When inheriting QT class, you specify C virtual functions to lisp methods map, and CommonQt uses a string hashtable for Qt method name -> lisp method map.. So it has to lookup qt method name every time from its binary representation. 20:56:36 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 20:58:12 -!- derekv [~derekv@c-68-62-78-203.hsd1.mi.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:19 -!- taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 20:58:59 l/unac 20:59:12 lunacy? 20:59:33 Beetny [~Beetny@ppp118-208-154-7.lns20.bne1.internode.on.net] has joined #lisp 20:59:36 taiyal [~taiyal@bb-216-195-184-102.gwi.net] has joined #lisp 21:01:07 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 21:01:11 Sort of. I wanted to press ^l /unac to clean up my irssi session, but missed the ctrl key :) 21:02:08 mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has joined #lisp 21:02:08 -!- mrSpec [~Spec@pool-151-204-255-122.bstnma.btas.verizon.net] has quit [Changing host] 21:02:08 mrSpec [~Spec@unaffiliated/mrspec] has joined #lisp 21:03:31 Hello, Dragons! 21:07:42 -!- leo2007 [~leo@58.22.113.116] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:11:11 -!- realitygrill [~realitygr@c-24-5-7-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: realitygrill] 21:11:50 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 21:17:42 *homie* pukes fire 21:18:28 on the foxes ofc 21:18:30 lol 21:19:04 firefox freezes hereover every now and then...and takes kde with it.... 21:19:14 I've a question about SBCL and STANDARD-CHAR for arrays w/out an :initial-element specified 21:19:24 http://paste.lisp.org/+2NT1 21:19:42 dlowe [~dlowe@c-66-30-116-162.hsd1.ma.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 21:20:28 man, 1 tiny hash table, and that shit is now smooth as silk 21:20:32 so fast its frightening 21:21:46 mon_key: see clhs 15.1.2.1 21:23:33 -!- tsuru [~charlie@adsl-74-240-217-227.bna.bellsouth.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:27:08 pkhuong: Thanks. So the initial #\NUL base-char is permissible because the initally allocated array has base-char as its upgraded-array-element-type ? 21:28:41 e.g. (upgraded-array-element-type (array-element-type (make-array 16 :element-type 'standard-char))) 21:28:59 mon_key: no, it's permissible because it's undefined what happens if you manage to observe it. 21:29:36 -!- cyrillos [~cyrill@188.134.33.130] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 21:33:12 Schrodingers cat? 21:36:22 mon_key: aref on an uninitialized array before setf of the element in question is undefined 21:37:10 Xach: got it thanx! 21:39:17 dnolen [~davidnole@cpe-98-14-92-234.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 21:41:31 -!- Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 21:42:08 amb007 [~a_bakic@7.17.97.84.rev.sfr.net] has joined #lisp 21:43:24 -!- pnq [~nick@ACA2293D.ipt.aol.com] has quit [Ping timeout: 246 seconds] 21:45:34 -!- ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has quit [Ping timeout: 268 seconds] 21:48:05 -!- seangrove [~user@c-24-6-209-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 21:51:05 -!- amb007 [~a_bakic@7.17.97.84.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 21:53:46 cess11 [~cess11@miffe.org] has joined #lisp 21:54:39 maxm: that sounds like the sort of simple patch that could be useful to others. 22:03:03 Mococa [~Mococa@187.58.181.233] has joined #lisp 22:04:20 yea I'll send it later, coz I need to rebase and split up my patches 22:04:37 rfg [~rfg@dsl78-143-206-87.in-addr.fast.co.uk] has joined #lisp 22:04:49 coz I have many other commits, mostly adding marshalling for types that were missing.. /me needs to get better at git-fu 22:05:02 and damn emacs vc-git is missing amend option 22:13:17 -!- mducharme [~nothing@S0106002401f31855.wp.shawcable.net] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:14:29 -!- betta_y_omega [~betta_y_o@90.166.231.220] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 22:14:35 mducharme [~nothing@S0106002401f31855.wp.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 22:19:06 hmm, dwim.hu darcs seem busted 22:19:15 I sent patch to the author.. Apparently I have 15 commits in my local tree, gotta clean them up.. 22:20:58 -!- gravicappa [~gravicapp@ppp91-77-183-178.pppoe.mtu-net.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 22:21:18 Xach: the VM's file system somehow got corrupted 22:24:21 -!- mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has quit [Read error: Connection reset by peer] 22:25:12 -!- gemelen [~shelta@shpd-95-53-209-104.vologda.ru] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 22:25:15 mjonsson [~mjonsson@38.109.95.133] has joined #lisp 22:26:11 fe[nl]ix: ugh 22:27:37 *Xach* has many of the repos 22:28:02 Odin- [~sbkhh@adsl-2-92.du.snerpa.is] has joined #lisp 22:32:45 Spion [~spion@unaffiliated/spion] has joined #lisp 22:33:11 -!- ehu [~ehuels@ip118-64-212-87.adsl2.static.versatel.nl] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 22:36:37 -!- doc_who [~doc_who@pool-108-28-6-47.washdc.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Quit: Leaving] 22:38:44 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 22:40:27 -!- drdo [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Ping timeout: 258 seconds] 22:41:34 ISF [~ivan@201.82.131.254] has joined #lisp 22:45:11 -!- agumonkey [~noob@136.158.70.86.rev.sfr.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 264 seconds] 22:46:17 I am working with cl-opengl a I have a little problem. When I recompile the drawing function a (random) number of times, it freezes and I have to kill emacs 22:46:25 any idea/solution where that may come from ? 22:46:37 (I am following this tutorial : http://3bb.cc/tutorials/cl-opengl/getting-started.html ) 22:47:06 jao [~user@pdpc/supporter/professional/jao] has joined #lisp 22:50:22 toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:50:49 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Client Quit] 22:52:12 toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has joined #lisp 22:58:07 -!- mishoo [~mishoo@79.112.119.222] has quit [Ping timeout: 252 seconds] 23:01:05 -!- toast` [~toast`@c-76-104-189-93.hsd1.wa.comcast.net] has quit [Quit: toast`] 23:03:28 -!- drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has quit [Read error: Operation timed out] 23:03:47 drdo` [~drdo@91.205.108.93.rev.vodafone.pt] has joined #lisp 23:18:37 Wellesly [~jake@h82.158.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has joined #lisp 23:20:54 -!- pdelgallego [~pdelgalle@1385159933.dhcp.dbnet.dk] has quit [Ping timeout: 276 seconds] 23:22:00 everyman [~user@blk-224-153-99.eastlink.ca] has joined #lisp 23:25:17 H4ns``` [~user@p4FFC836D.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #lisp 23:25:54 -!- H4ns`` [~user@p4FFC93D9.dip.t-dialin.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:29:46 -!- eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has quit [Ping timeout: 260 seconds] 23:30:45 ASau` [~user@95-26-244-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has joined #lisp 23:31:02 eno [~eno@nslu2-linux/eno] has joined #lisp 23:33:00 wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has joined #lisp 23:34:11 -!- ASau [~user@95-26-244-67.broadband.corbina.ru] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:37:50 -!- wedgeV [~wedge@cpe-74-66-9-78.nyc.res.rr.com] has quit [Client Quit] 23:39:23 -!- Wellesly [~jake@h82.158.101.208.dynamic.ip.windstream.net] has left #lisp 23:47:42 humasect [~humasect@S01060018f870b75e.rd.shawcable.net] has joined #lisp 23:49:06 -!- Vivitron [~user@pool-71-174-61-33.bstnma.fios.verizon.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds] 23:50:07 -!- cess11 [~cess11@miffe.org] has quit [Remote host closed the connection] 23:51:09 -!- drdo` is now known as drdo 23:51:54 -!- sellout [~Adium@c-67-176-94-251.hsd1.co.comcast.net] has quit [Ping timeout: 240 seconds]